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- Newsgroups: talk.rape
- Path: sparky!uunet!decwrl!concert!samba!tenney
- From: tenney@med.unc.edu (Charles R. Tenney)
- Subject: Turning down women (was Re: To Prof. P. on degrees of rape ...)
- Message-ID: <1992Jul26.000222.27365@samba.oit.unc.edu>
- Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu
- Nntp-Posting-Host: addor.med.unc.edu
- Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
- References: <1992Jul24.213214.669@brtph560.bnr.ca>
- Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:02:22 GMT
- Lines: 48
-
- In article <1992Jul24.213214.669@brtph560.bnr.ca> kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
- > [other stuff deleted]
- >I'm sorry but I disagree that someone who has sex with a women too drunk to say
- >no is not as bad as any other rapist. I have refused to have sex with women
- >who were very drunk and saying "YES!" in the most enthusiastic way possible.
- > [more description deleted]
- >KimmyD
- >
- >P.S.: Are there any people out there who feel like I do about this or are my
- > views totally pyscho ? If there are people that agree then by all
- > mean jump in any time. I could use a breather!
-
- No, you're not totally psycho, just sorta loud. Like others here. I got
- no problem with that, and you are actually more willing than some to deal
- with disagreement, clarify issues, etc. I don't mind the flames as long
- as there is information coming through at the same time.
-
- Anyway... your decision is the right one, IMO. Although there are
- circumstances under which consent could be given or known (e.g. if she
- says to her SO "Let's get stumbling drunk and make love like crazed
- weasels, I've got the vodka right here") if there is any doubt, leave it
- out. The worthwhile women will respect you for this. If you tell them
- that you just don't like sex with someone who's drunk and tell them why,
- they should respect that, too. (After all, everyone's allowed to set
- their own limits, that's the fundamental point here.)
-
- This ties in with a previous post of DC's with which I strongly
- agree--that when a someone says "no" even if they seem to mean "yes," just
- stop. Discuss things. If they're pissed off, that's their problem, but
- this is part of the process of teaching people not to play the games that
- encourage the idea that "no" can mean "yes." Unfortunately, this ties in
- with the stigma of sex being "dirty," and some people not wanting to take
- responsibility for it. The old line, "but you won't respect me in the
- morning" still has too much truth to it. Used to be a woman would feel
- she had to say "no" even when she meant "yes" or risk being branded as a
- slut. Thankfully, a lot of that is gone, but still too much there. When
- the stigma of enjoying sex goes, the need to pretend not to want it goes,
- and with it, the confusion (real or as an excuse) between the other person
- not wanting it and pretending not to want it also goes. There's a whole
- nasty edifice of lies that needs to be torn down.
-
-
-
- --
- --
- Charles R. Tenney tenney@med.unc.edu | What would the UNC school of
- | Medicine want with my opinions?
- "My karma ran over my dogma." | What would I want with theirs?
-