NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #16/NN_1992_16.iso/spool/comp/lang/forth/2846

Internet Message Format | 1992-07-24 | 3.6 KB

Path: sparky!uunet!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu!mikc
From: [e-mail] (Mike Coughlin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: ANS figFORTH
Keywords: ANS, fig, implementation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:11:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: /etc/organization
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mitch Bradley) writes:
 [ Concerning a new ANSI compliant PD or free Forth development effort ]
>... thus further eroding the ability of Forth vendors to make a profit,
>thus ensuring that Forth will forever be relegated to a hobbyist language
>or an academic curiosity.
>
>Down with free Forth systems.
>
>Mitch
>

   Chuck Moore gave us the ability to cut thru the overly complicated
designed-to-be expensive computer systems of the past. But we haven't
done it yet. We take the good ideas of Forth and combine them with the
bad ideas from the mainframe world. Forth lets one person write a
computer langauge and operating system in his spare time. A complete
OS becomes a term project for a student instead of a $1,000,000 project
for a team of programmers from IBM. Just because a Forth system is
worth as much as an old $1,000,000 dollar software system, why do
people think a Forth system should bring in $1,000,000 ?
   A microprocessor does what a what a mainframe did a few years ago.
If it sold for as much what good would it be? Forth is the software
analog of the microprocessor. Just as the semiconductor companies give
away samples of their new cpu's for free so engineers will try them,
we need a free Forth system to give away as a sample. That woun't stop
Forth programmers from earning a living.
   It is in the interest of every Forth programmer that this free
sample be something that is very much worth using. If your sample chip
doesn't work you woun't spend much time thinking about how to use it.
Instead of contributing to the PD Forths of the past with bug fixes and
suggestions for simple improvements, Forth vendors complained about
how the PD systems were no good at all and shouldn't even be used. This
was a great help in popularizing BASIC.
   With an elegantly simple way to program, you don't need to sell the
programming language. You can make lots of money writing and selling
application programs. All you have to do is convince your potential
customers that Forth is a good thing to use. We know that is not easy,
but we don't seem to spend much time working on it. A PD Forth with really
good clear documentation would be a big help here. A usefull PD application
written in Forth would be a wonderful advertisement too. A Forth source
listing with readable comments would make a good impression on many
experienced programmers -- Ha! where do I find one?
   Lots of people can write a Forth system. I can almost do it myself.
Its easier than writing a good application. Making a fortune by selling
a Forth system is an out of date idea. Selling the idea of using a Forth
system is what we need. Instead of hawking uncommented code, how about
selling a book on how to write a better Forth system? Somebody is going
to write an explanation of how a meta compilier works and if we understand
it we might name metacompiling after him. Seems like a good way to get
high consulting fees to me.
   Bill Gates sells things like BASIC and a primitive operating system.
He's worth $6,500,000,000 depending on the value of Microsoft stock.
Its clear that Forth is better than BASIC. How did Forth vendors let
him get away with that?