World of Ham Radio 1997/WOHR97_AmSoft_(1997-02-01).iso/usenets/1996_11/_antenna.txt

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The World of Ham Radio CD-ROM



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:01 1996
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From: Peter Markham
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 31 Oct 1996 21:09:00 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55c0lc$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55as62$[e-mail]>
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   Roy's post (much deleted) prompted me to resurrect a response that
 got lost due to server problems.

>please post them here. These would be appropriate for this group. In my
>opinion, the press release would be more appropriately posted in
>alt.invest.makemoneyfast or similar newsgroups.
>
>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

                           Questions or Comments?

   I have never read such a release that was not an April 1 article.
   The GAP and Maxcom advertising does not compare to this masterpiece.
   Merlin would be impressed.

   What really hurts is that all the research, time, and expense I
 have invested in my new satellite antenna setup has been flushed
 with one news release.

   Where and when can I purchase or make such a wonderous device?
 Do I have enough years left to wait for sufficient information for
 a layman such as myself to construct a similar working model?

                            Pete/wa4hei



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:02 1996
From: [e-mail] (David Covert)
Subject: RE: 6 Meter Copper J pole questions
Date: 31 Oct 96 21:12:33 -0800
References: <54ru0l$[e-mail]>
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Check out http://www.inlink.com/~raiar/cactus.html for your answer...

Dave Covert, KB5GOG


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:03 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 5/8's antennas & coax matching sections
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:25:38 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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altavoz wrote:
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Jim, for reiterating my point on the gain. Few people realize that
> > a 5/8 needs a substantial GP to afford any gain.
> >
> > 73
> > Chip N1IRaltavoz: It does not need this vague "substantial GP"
> it needs a .625wl GP . You need to read BROWN .
> There is little diff between a radiating element and
> a radial ( especially at .5-.625wl) .
>   The current peak is at .01wl( .25wl antenna) on both radiating
> elements and .35wl( .6wl antenna) on both elements .
>   Trim the .25wl antenna radial and you'll see little change.
> Trim the .6wl antenna radial even .1wl and you're in big trouble.
> It drasticaly alters the lobe, and changes the SWR big time.
> The reason for this is in the chart of the approach to a .5wl
> antenna , it's extremely steep . The .25wl antenna is 10 times
> lower Q !
>
>   A .5wl antenna needs a .5wl radial .

altavoz: Cant get a thread cause nobody understands current
distribution on antennas .

That the current loop is measured from the tip of the radiating element
or from the tip of the radial , not from feed point , so if you shorten
the radial on a 1/4 wl ant'   to < 1/4 wl where's the current loop going
to go ? Down the coax ? NO ! It must stay at the feedpoint ! (Right, everyone
uses 1/8 wl ant's) .    BUT NOT ON A 1/2 WL ant' . Cutting the radials
to less than 1/2 wl ( its normally at .35 wl)  will move the current
loop towards the feedpoint, and change the pattern , and thats not what
we need !!  Only current loops can launch R.F.  .
  Another stupid idea , that if we lower the angle on HF , we'll lose
all the RF into the ground ! ha ha ha ha .  You will put 4 times the
R.F. into the 1st skip at 2000 miles as compared to a 1/4 wl antenna !
  The intimidation against "L" matching is because the instructions
are poor. A 5/8 wl antenna ( 200-J100 para) can be matched with a coil
and a cap . But you allready have a cap ( the 100 Xc in parallel
with the resistance....1/4 wl ant's [ 30-J20 ser'] are in series
and 1/2 wl [200-J100 par'] ants are in parallel) . So we'll use
the cap thats allready there.
 An ant' that is higher Z than the coax needs to be transformed
and a series res' circuit takes high current ( 50 ohm coax) in and
makes high voltage ( 200 ohm ant') across either element .
 If you put the antenna in parallel with one  component of a
series res' circuit , the ant' will get it's high voltage and
low current. But looking into this series circuit , the coax
will see 50 ohms ( series circuits are low input Z .
Once again, looking into a series circuit you see low volt,
high amps , but across the cap or coil , you see the opposite .

Looking into a para' circuit, you see hi volt, low amps and
once inside , you see the opposite ( much higher current thru the cap
and coil than whats being applied)

 An "L" match is a coil and a cap that can match a fairly high ratio,
( the PI can do a little better). A coax looking into a series res'
circuit sees zero Z . oooopppss , what we mean by series resonant
is not perfect res' ( 00+j00) but 50 ohms resistive and no reactance.
 So lets match a 200-J100  5/8 wl antena. 2 simple formulas do the job,
but the instructions are usually poor . Like you DONT NEED BOTH
COMPONENTS. The formulas say 86 XL and 115.5 Xc will tune 200 ohms.
  We need to up the antennas 100 Xc to 115.5 , so a 745 XL in parallel
with the antenna will make it 200-j115.5 .
  The coax looks into a 86.6 XL then into the parallel combination
of antenna and a 745 XL ( which is just part of the single coil !).
  So you end up with a single component match. One man tunes his ant'
with a cap and another punches numbers on his H.P.48GX and figures
a coil will do . The man with the cap should feel silly about that
time (COST !).
  BTW , i have a electronics program for the HP48GX/SX .



______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:04 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wok as reflector?
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:29:26 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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Jens Goerke wrote:
>
> Hi, all!
>
> No, this is not a joke. I was just watching a japanese movie
> (Tampopo) and the thought of using a wok as a reflector for
> UHF or as a parabolic antenna for 10GHz came to me.
> Has anybody ever tried it?
>
> 73, Jens, DB9LL
> --
> What _was_ your username again? <clickety clickety click>


Solly , i no tink it wok .

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:05 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 9913 N connectors
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:37:51 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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Rick Markey wrote:
>
> Bob you're probably talking about the Amphenol 82-61, solder type N =
> connectors.  I always file down the center conductor of the 9913 rather =
> than try to drill the center pin.  As far as I know, Kings is the only =
> company that makes an N connector that will fit 9913.  It's a crimp type =
> and it's expensive to buy the darned tooling.  I've never had any =
> problems filing the center conductor.  Only problem I've ever had with =
> 9913 is the lousy shielding.=20
>
> de Rick, KN3C
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> From: "Bob Smith" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Amphenol N's w/ 9913?
>
> I am finding that the Amphenol connectors I bought for RG8/9913 the =
> center
> pin is too small for the center conductor.  Usually I drill these out a =
> bit
> and they work just fine - Question - is this killing any of the required
> characteristics?
>
> thanks and 73 de Bob.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


altavoz: I will never touch 9913, i'll go to hardline
first.

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:06 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax Question
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:42:52 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Mandy Wright wrote:
>
> In article <555ivs$[e-mail]>, William Cann
> <[e-mail]> writes
> >I have a roll of coax stamped "CG 92 H/U".  I cant seem to find
> >anything about it on material I have on hand.  Does anyone know
> >the specs on it?
> >ie: impedence, loss/100ft and freq limits?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> You're welcome!
> Probably mil.spec. no. UR92
> Z=50ohm  OD=0.54"  core=7/0.029"  die= polythene  cap= 30pf/ft
> vel.f= 0.666
> att(dB/100ft)=11 100mc/s  15.6db 200mc/s  19.2 at 300mc/s  27.5 600mc/s
> Not suitable above 1gc/s
> Data obtained from UK Home Office, Radio Regulatory Dept Listing of
> Cable Losses.
>
> Hope this helps
> Mandy

altavoz: 11db at 100 mc/s !!!    RG8FOAM is 1.7 db .


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:07 1996
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From: "Bruce S. Howland" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TV antenna for 6m.
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 01:14:45 -0500
Organization: IDS World Network Internet Access Service, [phone]
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Gary C. Wysocki wrote:
>
> Curt Sanders wrote:
> >
> > I need feedback on anyone who has used a TV antenna for 6m.
> > I intend to use a tuner with no more than 10 watts PEP SSB/CW (at this tim
e).
> > The reason: I have a landlord who will permit only TV antennas.
> > Please email me or post in this newsgroup.

Make a 6m yagi with fake elements to make it look like a TV antenna, or
find a large, used, TV antenna, remove all the elements, make a 2-el
beam out of it, and replace the TV elements with fake elements.  The
fake stuff must be non-resonant.  Paint it with non-metallic paint in a
color that look silverish/goldish.  I met someone at a hamfest who
showed me pictures of this.  Personally, I'd do the same thing with the
TV antenna boom, and fake elements, but would settle for a single dipole
replacing the longest TV element, and have a rotating dipole.  It's not
a beam, but it would work.

> I have a question along the same lines... I just picked up a 3 element
> 6m Yagi and want to mount it on the same mast/rotor as our TV/FM Yagi.
> Is this a good or a bad idea?  There's plenty of mast to get the two

I did this with a 2m Quagi.  The TV antenna was about 1-1/2 feet above
the rotor, and the Quagi, went near the top because I had a vertical
dipole mounted there for omni coverage.  Bear in mind that the Quagi was
vertically polarized, and the TV any was horizontal.  However, I noticed
no real difference in the vswr compared to mounting the Quagi alone, and
the radiation pattern was close to typical.  Results may be different
with your antenna. I often had the TV on while working 2m, and only
noticed minor interference on channels close to the band.

Give it a try.  It might work well for you, too.

73 cul8r -b-
N1HNJ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:08 1996
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From: "Chuck (Jack) Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 00:21:21 -0600
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> As long as this guy keeps getting responses he'll keep up the
> nonsense. That's what he wants. Keep everybody stirred up and roaring.
> He's getting his kicks. You'll notice he doesn't give out a call-sign.
> 73,
> Butch N2YMJ

Well I don't want to miss learning anything....but it is getting kind of
painful to read. I wonder what this guy's native tongue is?

Chuck, KE9UW




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Maarten van Damme)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Graham Maynard loop antenna's?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 07:22:56 GMT
Organization: XS4ALL, networking for the masses
Lines: 18
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Mr Whitt of Medium Wave Circle posted a list of Loop antennas for
mediumwave.
One of the names that was on the list was that of Graham Maynard. His
loops seem to be popular and used by many MW listeners and DX-ers. I
talked to Mr. Maynard on the phone and he explained the different
types available and their prices (which are not cheap but decent). And
lower than the KIWA Loop for sure!


Does anyone use an antenna made by Mr. Maynard? What type, how do they
look, how are they constructed and how is their performance and ease
of use?

Hope to hear from you,


Maarten van Damme


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:10 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 08:26:19 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 10
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>As long as this guy keeps getting responses he'll keep up the
>nonsense. That's what he wants. Keep everybody stirred up and roaring.
>He's getting his kicks. You'll notice he doesn't give out a call-sign.
>73,
>Butch N2YMJ

Sounds just like "Kurt Sterba". Must be the same guy.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:11 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 04:11:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 36
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>altavoz: So a larger diameter tube , at the middle of the .5wl pole
>will increase radiation resistance ?

No but making the antenna thicker at the ends and thinner at the center
will. Making the antenna thin at the ends and thick at the center will
decrease radation resistance.

Only charge (proton and electron) acceleration causes radiation. A given
amount of power radiated requires a given amount of uniform charge
acceleration. If we spead the charges out over the radiator more evenly,
the number of charges moving at the high current point is less.

Look at tables for short verticals, showing radiation resistance. You will
see a short top loaded vertical has four times the radiation resistance of
the same height base loaded vertical. That is because with a given amount
of power, the base loaded vertical has to move twice as many charges at
the bottom as the top loaded vertical.

The AVERAGE current in the base loaded vertical is the same as the top
loaded vertical, but since it reaches zero at the top it has to have twice
as much at the bottom.  The top loaded short vertical has uniform current.
They both have equal currents at the center.

Radiation resistance is power radiated divided by the square of current
causing the radiation. IRE defines this as effective current at the
current loop or current maximum of the antenna. So radiation resistance is
four times less in the base loaded vertical since it has twice the current
with the same power.

Many articles confuse radiation resistance with feedpoint resistance.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 04:13:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 27
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <55b9hv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:

>
>Again, this is not one of my antennas; I just feel that totally negative
>attitudes on this newsgroup makes us look like asses to those who are
>actually testing these antennae right now. Believe me, they are getting
>attention and this antennae has a niche somewhere.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

I hope this simple comment doesn't send you ballistic again, but.....

It isn't the people asking questions on this newsgroup making great
inventors look like "asses" (as you so nicely put it), and it isn't that
people are negative Chip.

It's just the claims "inventors" make are so outlandish, and that
psychotic-like over reactions to simple questions makes self-proclaimed
"inventors" look immature.

More important than anything else in this group is this point. No one in
this world can make another person "look like" anything, but someone can
sure make himself look like an ass.

73, Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 04:18:26 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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hello albatros,
In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
<[e-mail]> writes:

I wote
>> Actually the minor lobe of a 5/8 wl is not insignificant, that's why
most
>> broadcast stations abandoned them by the 30's. On sky wave, the minor
lobe
>> arrives back on earth and interferes with the desired signal from the
main
>> lobe, and gives rise to severe fading.
>> A 5/8 wl antenna ONLY acheives its' gain when over a very very large
>> groundplane, several wavelengths of near perfect ground. Without the
large
>> perfectly reflecting ground, the 5/8 wl has about the same or slightly
>> LESS gain than a 1/2 wl with no reflecting ground.
>> Any slight matching advantage in matching is offset by these
>> disadvantages.

 And you replied

>altavoz: Read Paul H. Lee page 84 "Am' Rad' Vert' Ant' HB"
>As he proves you must have a counterpoise for a 1/2w ant.

Of course you do, if the antenna is end fed especially. Without one the
antenna can NOT even be fed at the end. That is the main mistake of the J
pole, it uses a matching stub as both counterpoise and matching section,
and current moves the wrong way.
So when you say:
>A J POLE DOESNT WORK ! IT HAS POOR LOW ANGLE RADIATION .
We agree.

When you say
>He says " Actualy the 5/8w vert is better than the 1/2
>vert from the standpoints of low angle radiation and feedpoint
>impedance..
We also agree, but NOT for broadcast band use where skywave is present and
not unless the groundplane extends out many wavelengths. As a matter of
fact, in the NAB Engineering Handbook this very reason is explianed, and
shorter verticals are called NON-FADING verticals for this reason.

Another thing the 5/8 wl antenna does is force or compress radiation at a
low wave angle where the earth losses absorb signal. That is OK for ground
wave (because you have to have the signal there anyway) but is bad for
skywave. As the vertical for HF skywave is made taller than 1/4 wl
efficiency GOES down unless the antenna is over a large body of saltwater.

You can find that by modeling the antenna on computor, trying the antenna
in life, or by reading a good book that has sections about earth effects
like Antennas and Transmission Lines by Dr. Kuecken. I had a 1/2 wl
vertical on 80 meters and it stunk compared to a 1/4 wl vertical, and I
tried the same thing on 40 and 160 and they stank. For groundwave, I could
work many miles, but for skywave even into DX they were the poorest
antennas I ever used even though they were over large radials.

By the way, there was a guy on the American Motors/ Rambler list using the
name the "mad mispeller" that used to make people mad. Did you ever own a
Rambler car?

73 Tom

PS.  Captain Kangeroo is better about radials than Captain Lee. He needs
to go back to radial school.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: New Vertical Dipole Design Released
Date: 1 Nov 1996 04:20:21 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (JAMES MCEWEN) writes:

>
>     We start with a shorted 1/4 *L* (Lambda or wavelength) section of
>     twinlead or open wire.  We can construct this pretty easily,and
>
>
>     a |--------------------------c
>     b |--------------------------d
>     short at  a-b.  open at c-d
>
>     using a dip meter, we can be pretty sure it is resonant at our
>     frequency of interest.  This is a parallel resonant circuit (Yes
>     Wiz, a tank circuit).
>
>     Now we select a point that has an impedance of 50 ohms.  If we
>     select the real 50 ohm point, it will be a 50+j0 load on a 50 ohm
>     coax feeder.  If a SWR meter is placed in the feedline, it should
>     indicate close to a  1:1 SWR at our resonant frequency.
>

If the line is lossless, there is no 50 ohm point. If the line has loss,
and you find the 50 ohm point, attaching ANY length radiator to one
conductor of the line will cause common mode current to flow and the
impedance to change.

The stub will radiate.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How do you measure radiation resistance?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 04:38:25 -0500
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In article <[e-mail]>, Mandy Wright
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Actually Altavoz, Chip's correct - he was posting a reply to Tom! HA HA!
>
>

Actually Mandy, Chip is incorrect and so is altavoz. There is no need for
immature comments when someone asks a question. Both parties need better
emotional control.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:22 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Turner)
Subject: Re: Advice on low-noise, low-band receiving antenna???
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[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
<snip>
>A helically loaded antenna (distributed loading) is one of the most
>inefficient methods of loading an antenna. The most efficient radiators
>carry uniform in phase current over the entire length of the radiator.
>
-----------------------------------------------
Is this correct?  I always believed a simple non-loaded dipole was virtually
100% efficient, and they have anthing but "uniform in phase current over the
length of the radiator".  Please explain.

73, Bill W7LZP
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David P. Fraleigh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Sorry... TV antenna questions
Date: 1 Nov 1996 11:01:03 GMT
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I don't know who else to ask these questions to so forgive me for asking
them here... (I suspect that no one else can better answer them)..
I have been trying to improve my TV reception for the past few months and
have been fairly successfull..  (mainly due to taller tower)..  I am left
with a few questions though..

I have put up two antennas (a UHF and a VHF pointed in two different
directions) and joined them with a combiner into a single lead coming down
to my house..  It seems that I am losing signal strength by having
two antennas because with only the VHF antenna connected I get a clearer
picture of those VHF stations.  Could this be happening and what can I do
about it?

Is there some specified distance apart that these two antennas should be?

There are some trees located not far from the antenna in the direction
that the VHF antenna needs to point.  Would anything much be gained by
removing them...?

Thanks for any advice..




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:24 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:36:23 GMT
Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia
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[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:



>Actually the minor lobe of a 5/8 wl is not insignificant, that's why most
>broadcast stations abandoned them by the 30's. On sky wave, the minor lobe
>arrives back on earth and interferes with the desired signal from the main
>lobe, and gives rise to severe fading.

>A 5/8 wl antenna ONLY acheives its' gain when over a very very large
>groundplane, several wavelengths of near perfect ground. Without the large
>perfectly reflecting ground, the 5/8 wl has about the same or slightly
>LESS gain than a 1/2 wl with no reflecting ground.

>Any slight matching advantage in matching is offset by these
>disadvantages.

Tom,
      I'm intrigued by your comment that most broadcasting stations
abandomed them in the 30's.  To the best of my knowledge the National
Broadcasting Stations (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is still
using them.  I think that the Commercial stations are still using them
too.  Perhaps we are lucky in having a very tightly controlled
allocation of station locations, and far fewer stations than
elsewhere.

     I was closely involved with them 1957-1964, particularly with the
3AR - 3LO pair working at 620 kHz and 770 kHz.  The aerial was a
compromise 5/8 aerial, and there was a very big difference in the feed
point impedance at the two frequencies.  I have the values on file if
anyone is interested.

        The mast was a triangular lattice steel guyed construction, 704 feet
high and about 9 feet per side.  Tke bottom 10 feet ot so tapered to
about one foot diameter and sat on a single tubular porcelain
insulator.  The feed point was about 8 feet from the ground.

        Ground mat was 144 radials a bit longer than hald wave, terminating on
a copper cable, open circuit ring, about 15 feet diameter with a
single lead into the coupling unit.

        We replaced that with a continuous copper sheet about 15 foot square
with all radials bonded directly to it.  That did two things (a)
stabilised the base impedance with changes in soil conductivity over
the seasons, and (b) substantial reduced the near field ground losses.

        We define our service area as the distance from the aerial to the
start of the fading zone, and use transmitters on other frequencies to
cover the remainder of Victoria.

        I have no idea how this applies to HF.  But I thought someone may be
interested.
                                Alan.

>73 Tom

  ,-._|\  Alan Fowler.
 /  Oz  \ Mail Address: PO Box 272, Balwyn 3103 Vic, AUSTRALIA.
 \_,--.x/ Phone: [phone]  Member, Melbourne PC User Group.
       v  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:25 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:45:57 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
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In article <557kbu$[e-mail]>, Fractenna
<[e-mail]> writes
>Hey!
>
>Tom and I agree!
>
>No gain with a 5/8 WITHOUT a large GP.
Absolutely!                   ^^^^^
Read Jasik  or Terman or Laporte (refering to MF and HF broadcasting
antennae and ground conductivity
>
>Go try it or model it and you'll see.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR
All the best!
Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:46:36 GMT
Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia
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[e-mail] wrote:

>I think I know the base fed tower at the new site was voltage fed and the
>height was up in the > .25 range because of the story that the Mexican
>crew that cut the grass lost a member on a dare to a stray weed slinger,
>as I was told.  He reached up and touched the base, with his weed slinger,
>on a bet, after which they couldn't ANY of them even NEAR the thing to cut
>the weeds.

Mike,
        I have climbed onto a live mast fed with two 10 kW MF transmitters
quite a few times without ill effects.  I haven't ever been burnt
while getting on or off although I know quite a fet who have.

        We had a team of painters smartening up the mast at one time, working
in bosuns chairs slung from the mast.  The problem was at the end of a
brush stroke.  If the brush wasn't pulled away smartly, it drew an arc
- making a VERY loud speaker.

        I have been burnt by putting the palm of my hand down on the grass
near a 50 kW mast.  My hand ended up covered with dozens of burns from
the arcs as I lifted my hand away.  Only little ones tough, not
serious.
                        regards,  Alan.

  ,-._|\  Alan Fowler.
 /  Oz  \ Mail Address: PO Box 272, Balwyn 3103 Vic, AUSTRALIA.
 \_,--.x/ Phone: [phone]  Member, Melbourne PC User Group.
       v  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 07:34:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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RE: Tom's Comment

Tom, is this meant for a different thread? Watziz gotta dowit the CTHA?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How do you measure radiation resistance?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 08:04:00 -0500
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RE: Tom's digressive point.

Actually Tom, someone asked a question and you implied they were dumb even
to ask it. What a surprise!

Next time, answer the question or don't respond! Or don't youy know HOW to
measure radiation resistance?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 08:04:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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RE: Tom's 'Asses'

I repeat: if you want some info on this antenna, ask the source. Send some
e-mail to John Craven. I bet he would be delighted to respond, and wonder
WHY you guys are interested in a commercial press release on a
(presumably) non-ham antenna when this is a ham antenna newsgroup? Or
maybe not. Ask him and find out.

He's probably prepared for your questions, and I do hope you're a little
nicer to him than to some others. These guys are smart and you shouldn't
treat them like village idiots.

73 Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:32 1996
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From: David Cooley <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 07:06:21 -0600
Organization: IPass.net
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30885 triangle.radio:2170

Well,
While looking for something else, I ran across the plans for my full
wave vertical antenna... it can be used for any band, as equations are
given for all dimensions... it was published in 73 magazine, August,
1989.  According to the article, it performs (Gain and radiation wise) "
as good or better than a commercial 5/8 wave vertical".
If anyone is interested, next week when I get back to work I can fax
copies, or copy and mail out hard copy.
73 de N5XMT
--
========================================================================
David Cooley                AKA N5XMT                 [e-mail]
http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: 1 Nov 1996 08:35:38 -0500
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Who IS Kurt Sterba?
Sterba curtain?
Other?
Haven't seen anything except an occasional world radio article.Can someone
fill me in pse?
Tnx
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:37 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:00:05 +0000
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 <557u6o$[e-mail]>
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In article <557u6o$[e-mail]>, K1BQT <[e-mail]>
writes
>Im with you, Dick!  I like smoke and lightening, but I hate smoke and
>mirrors--and I can't stand babys.
>
>I'd really like to see a serious discussion of charge accelleration.  I
>doubt Tom made it up--but if he did, I'd like to see it challenged in a
>thoughtful and intellegent way.
>
>I'd like to learn more about how fields form and antennas radiate.  Maybe
>it would help me to design better antennas.
>
Hi Rick
Try:
Fields and Waves in Communication electronics by Ramo,Whinnery and Van
Duzer  it's very theoretical, and beyond most of us!  Also I recommend
Jasik and Kraus.  These are much better for us mere mortals.   :-)

Regards
Tim
>I'd like to see hard evidence rather than vague observations and emotional
>claims that explain why some antenna designs are credible and others
>aren't.
>
>However, I fear I'll never understand any of this because the JOY OF
>FLAMING seems to be over-riding the joy of thoughtful discourse.  This is
>election time...anybody else willing to vote the the same way??
>
>Rick  K1BQT

Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:38 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Paint
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:12:41 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
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In article <[e-mail]>, "Dr. Michael Hunter"
<[e-mail]> writes
>Need to hide my R 7 vertical antenna from the home owners association. Wonder

>if there is any type of black paint that could be used on the aluminum antenn
a
>that will not distort the performance?
>
>Mike [e-mail]
We recommend Matt Black Cellulose (Vehicle panel primer).  Available in
spray cans from Duplicolor.
Will take directly on fibreglass and most plastics, for aluminium a
"key" is needed as the paint cant stick to the oxide surface, so clean
with a kitchen scouring pad and dilute caustic soda.  IMPORTANT Rinse to
remove all traces with hot water.  Degrease with ammyl-acetate and spray
immediately.

Hope this helps.
Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (paul girling)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest
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From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (paul girling)
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Subject: Ham-Ant Digest
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From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 10:28:29 -0500
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In his reply, Tom wrote:

"More important than anything else in this group is this point. No one in
this world can make another person look like anything, but someone can
sure make himself look like an ass".

When credible referrences and meaningful data result in reasonable
conslusions, there's never gonna be a problem with discussions of the
CTHA, the Fractal, charge acceleration, or anything else on here.
However, when subjective claims pass for scientific evidence and technical
statements draw wildly emotional responses, the flaming starts. That kind
of behavior would last about two seconds in a refereed debate or a thesis
defense.  That's what the connection is, Chip.

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 11:30:50 -0500
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In article <55at7i$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>Actually, the gain relative to a single element can in some cases be
>greater when loss is greater.
>
>The 90-degree phased, 90-degree spaced antenna is an interesting special
>case. For this antenna, the gain relative to a single element will always

>be 3 dB, regardless of the loss. This assumes that both elements are
>identical and have the same amount of loss.

Hi Roy,

I noticed he was planning on using 30 ft spacing, which is .055 wl on 160.
Unless I'm missing something, efficiency of both elements will drop
drastically at that spacing.

The array would be very valuable for receiving, even at that close
spacing, but not for transmitting unless the matching system and ground
system was very well constructed. My receiving array uses four elements
spaced .125 WL on 160.

But with my pair of full size verticals on 160 and a full complement of
radials, I kept the spacing almost 2/10 wl to minimize headaches from
mutual coupling.

In any event, a power divider is unnecessary.

73 Tom




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax as ground wire.
Date: 1 Nov 1996 11:32:21 -0500
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In article <55b3ni$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(WayDaBe37) writes:

>Hello to All,
> I read an article in September 73 magazine concerning using coax for
long
>runs to ground. It stated that if i bridged the shield to the center
>conductor with 2 .001uf 1Kv disc capacitors that it would give a ground
>length of only a few inches no matter what the coax length. Is this true?
>Anyone tried it? Would sure like to have a good ground from my 3rd floor
>shack!
>73
>Tim,KC7QOM

Hi Tim,

Like so many things that appear in 73, that article is pure garbage. You'd
be better off to get QST, or another magazine that employs or at least
attempts technical editing. The ARRL Handbook and Antenna book are both
very good if you need ideas.

Anyway, the .001 capacitors do nothing at all at the operating frequency.
Neither does the center conductor. Because of skin effect, all currents
flow on the outside of the shield.

Not only that, woven braiding has greater loss than a smooth conductor the
same size. The best way for you to reduce the impedance of a third floor
RF ground is to use multiple ground leads spaced some distance apart,
and-or a large counterpoise system.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:46 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on low-noise, low-band receiving antenna???
Date: 1 Nov 1996 16:54:10 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
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In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Turner) write
s:
>[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
><snip>
>>A helically loaded antenna (distributed loading) is one of the most
>>inefficient methods of loading an antenna. The most efficient radiators
>>carry uniform in phase current over the entire length of the radiator.
>>
>-----------------------------------------------
>Is this correct?  I always believed a simple non-loaded dipole was virtually
>100% efficient, and they have anthing but "uniform in phase current over the
>length of the radiator".  Please explain.
>
>73, Bill W7LZP
>[e-mail]

A layman's view of this for me focuses on the definition of the word
"uniform", smoothly changing as one goes down the length.  At any point
where the element rotates around to the other side, the next radiating point
must obviously be in discontinuity - plane wise - to it's neighbor, and thus
to a layman.. less efficient at radiating anything.

Little bitty chunks of a radiator that are minimal portions of the problem,
must be less efficient that a whole section..  or, what goes around....
in this case,  doesn't maybe come around?

  :)

Remember I said.. layman...   OK?

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:47 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 17:11:19 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <55davn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <555jar$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5571ce$[e-mail]> <55ckhc$[e-mail]>
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In <55ckhc$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Alan Fowler) wri
tes:
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>>I think I know the base fed tower at the new site was voltage fed and the
>>height was up in the > .25 range because of the story that the Mexican
>>crew that cut the grass lost a member on a dare to a stray weed slinger,
>>as I was told.  He reached up and touched the base, with his weed slinger,
>>on a bet, after which they couldn't ANY of them even NEAR the thing to cut
>>the weeds.
>
>Mike,
>       I have climbed onto a live mast fed with two 10 kW MF transmitters
>quite a few times without ill effects.  I haven't ever been burnt
>while getting on or off although I know quite a fet who have.

   Source for this remark is Dr. George Huebner, W5GDK.  Don't
   know the specifics on exactly how the weed slinger was made.
   Would make a difference....

>       We had a team of painters smartening up the mast at one time, working
>in bosuns chairs slung from the mast.  The problem was at the end of a
>brush stroke.  If the brush wasn't pulled away smartly, it drew an arc
>- making a VERY loud speaker.

    :)  Isn't English a WONDERFUL language?  :)

>       I have been burnt by putting the palm of my hand down on the grass
>near a 50 kW mast.  My hand ended up covered with dozens of burns from
>the arcs as I lifted my hand away.  Only little ones tough, not
>serious.

     Leading me to the conclusion, though I've never been faced with
     actually doing it, that one has to play kangaroo to become a
     mast monkey at a more base level in the feeding chain?

     :)

>                       regards,  Alan.

      Right?

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on low-noise, low-band receiving antenna???
Date: 1 Nov 1996 12:14:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill
Turner) writes:

>Is this correct?  I always believed a simple non-loaded dipole was
virtually
>100% efficient, and they have anthing but "uniform in phase current over
the
>length of the radiator".  Please explain.
>
>73, Bill W7LZP

Hi Bill,

If any antenna has very low distributed loss it will be efficient. The
current distribution of a dipole, while not ideal, doesn't hurt because
the antenna is so large current is pretty low everywhere in the antenna.

To produce a given power in the electromagnetic radiation field, any
antenna must have the same overall net charge acceleration no matter how
these moving charges (current) are distributed. That means if we don't
have uniform in-phase current across the radiator, we require the same net
effect but the source (current) is concentrated in a small area. Loss is
I^2 R, so loss increases rapidly when current is not uniform. If we double
the current in an area containing fixed loss resistance, we quadruple heat
loss!

If directivity is considered in this case, it is also increases with
uniform current. In other words, a half wave dipole would be more
directional and more efficient if it carried uniform in-phase current over
it's entire length. But the effect is small in a full size antenna,
because it's already so efficient. If we made it from nichrome, however,
the effect would be very noticable.

This is one reason ground radials are more efficient as current is made
more uniform in the earth below the radials. The last thing we want,
contrary to some articles, is concentrated current in the ground, like
loaded resonant radials produce.

A short vertical would become much more efficient (as would a small loop)
if the loading method causes uniform current over the entire radiator. The
improvement, if all things are equal, could be as much as four times over
triangular distribution.

That, and the fact helically loaded antennas are really loading coils with
very poor form factor and Q, is the reason why they are inefficient.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:51 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 12:19:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi Alan,

In article <55cju8$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Alan
Fowler) writes:

>       The mast was a triangular lattice steel guyed construction, 704
feet
>high and about 9 feet per side.  Tke bottom 10 feet ot so tapered to
>about one foot diameter and sat on a single tubular porcelain
>insulator.  The feed point was about 8 feet from the ground.

That's another thing they got away from here, triangular structures. It
causes a loss in vertical directivity and a decrease in BW. The preferred
radiator is uniform cross section or thicker (by top loading) at the open
end.

Unfortunately my books and references on AM BCB installations went with
the sale of my business years ago, but I'm sure someone on here has a copy
of the NAB Broadcast Engineering Handbook. The idea was to shorten the
radiator slightly from 5/8 wl to decrease the high angle lobe. Even though
a little ground wave signal was given up, fading was greatly reduced.

The problem with the 5/8 antenna was the high angle lobe arrives back in
the area of fringe ground wave signal, giving rise to severe fading.

Wish I could quote the page, but I'm reasonably sure that's the book. And
I'm positive that was the practice here after the 30's when antenna
systems settled in to cookbook recipies.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:52 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:28:00 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
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[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->We agree.
->We also agree

You got a mouse in your pocket or sumpin'???  Or maybe Prince Charlie in
disguise?

Jim

Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
Grass Valley CA 95945   |
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:53 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 17:32:49 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <55dc81$[e-mail]>
References: <5571ce$[e-mail]> <557kbu$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, Mandy Wright <Mandy@the-sympo
sium.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In article <557kbu$[e-mail]>, Fractenna
><[e-mail]> writes
>>Hey!
>>
>>Tom and I agree!
>>
>>No gain with a 5/8 WITHOUT a large GP.

>Absolutely!                   ^^^^^

>Read Jasik  or Terman or Laporte (refering to MF and HF broadcasting
>antennae and ground conductivity
>>
>>Go try it or model it and you'll see.

>All the best!
>Mandy

>(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
>despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
>Sussex
>UK

Where MF and HF and greater than 1/4 wave vertical elements are concerned,
as a layman, I've always understood that far field ain't far fetched over lous
y
ground and carefully taught by my pocketbook that I can't overlay all the
surounding country with copper...

   :)

I used to have the most fascinating tape recording of VK3IM driving down
into the salt water with his 40 meter mobile CW signal, driving back up the
road to the cliff overlooking the Pacific path to Texas and then driving away
from the cliff on level ground back to his home a few miles away.

Most practical demonstration I've ever seen about far field ground effects..
20-30DB difference upward while in the effect of a real salt water ground
vs. the regular land terrain just a few miles from the aperature....

He will be S5-6 for real in the salt water with his wheels in it.  He will
be S9 or better, sometimes going up the ramp.  He will be S4-6 at the
top of the cliff overlooking the ocean.  As he drives away from the cliff
edge going home, he will drop off.  Parked in his driveway, he will be in the
noise or S1-2 at the most.

We've repeated the deal a number of times for kicks...

So much for argument over the real effects at HF and MF over a few feet of
radials in support of any practical help for skywave lobe effectiveness as
far as my observation is concerned.   Control of the far field per my
observation is even more important here, given even a half way realistic
attempt to build a practical ground system for verticals, one that will let
the impedance matching stabilize season to season, where most ham radio
vertical HF installations are concerned.

   THAT is why buying property in relation to the anticipated paths
   is the single most important decision most hams could make about
   their amatuer radio carreer, and, in practice, the one that most of
   them can do very little about, ... in retrospect...

   :)

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:54 1996
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From: W3BV <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: Mosley "Classic" Monobanders
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 12:34:49 -0500
Organization: Voicenet - Internet Access - [phone]
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For Sale: Two Mosley 20 Meter "Classic" Series Monobanders:  CL-203 (3
Elements, 24' boom)  $400;  CL-204 (4 Elements, 36' boom) $625.  Both
new, in unopened factory cartons.  Prices F.O.B. Perkasie, PA

Wanted: Torque arm assemblies for Rohn 55G.

Alan, W3BV  [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:55 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of 5/8 wavelength?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 17:45:54 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
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Message-ID: <55dd0i$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (A N Thompson) writes
:

>   Judging from some of the replies I have seen, there
>seems to be confusion in certain quarters regarding
>radials and ground systems.

     Some of us have 2 meter minds...
        some of us have 160 meter minds.
          those of us with 2 meter minds,
            sometimes think that those of us with 160 meter minds,
              are out of our minds...

     Their beliefs may be well grounded...  after 40 years on lo band,

          I miss my mind..  its full of static...

    :)

>However, the world does not end at the end of the
>radials, even if they are .6 wavelength radials used with
>a 5/8-wavelength vertical.  Ground losses beyond .25,
>..5, or even .625 wavelength do affect distant field strength
>measurements.  Even if you have a perfect ground
>system extending out to .6-wavelength, if your 5/8-wave
>antenna is situated in an otherwise lossy environment,
>you will have major losses in field strength at low
>radiation angles.

    Exactly so.

    Besides which,

    the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department takes a dim view
    of going out and putting tons of salt in the fresh water estuaries...

    Besides, I can't BEGIN to pay for all the Centrum Silver it would
    take to feed the place its trace minerals....

    Although, the advertisement says it's good for your performance..

    :)

>73,
>Arliss   W7XU

     Lucky dog to Asia... you.....

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:56 1996
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From: Jay Harmor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad vs. Yagi
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:52:12 -0800
Organization: Srpint
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The choice I have to make a choice for a 2m SSB antenna.  The two
antennas I am looking at are:
4 ele Quad 9+db gain (Pros.. Shorter turning radius)

10 ele Yagi  12+db gain (Pros.. Higher gain)

cost of the two antennas is about the same.

can any of you fellow hams think of any more pros or cons to help me with
my choice.


Thanks

Jay (KE6GLA)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:57 1996
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From: Scott Ellington <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 12:00:11 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55arq1$[e-mail]>
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ON4UN also has an interesting discussion about the effect of
ground losses on the performance of low-band verticals over a quarter
wavelength long in his book, "Low Band DXing".
--
73,

Scott  K9MA
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 18:06:24 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <55de76$[e-mail]>
References: <55cc7g$[e-mail]> <55cuba$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx19-02.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <55cuba$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Fractenna) wrote:
>Who IS Kurt Sterba?
>Sterba curtain?
>Other?
>Haven't seen anything except an occasional world radio article.Can someone
>fill me in pse?
>Tnx
>Chip N1IR

It's the pen name of the writer of a column in World Radio. The column is
kind of like a talk radio show but where nobody who calls in is put on the
air. If I wrote what he does and how he does I wouldn't give my real name
either.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:48:59 1996
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From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Temperature
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:25:51 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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>How to measure Antenna Temperature.

Noise is generated in every conductive element by thermal agitation of
its molecules.  The amplitude of this noise voltage is given by

   V = 7.5 x 10 EE-12 sqrt(TBR)

where T is temperature in Kelvins, B is bandwidth between -3 dB
points, and R is resistance in ohms.

Noise temperature (in Kelvins) is an alternative way of specifying
amplifier noise figure.  Noise added by the amplifier is conceived as
being due to a fictitious rise in temperature of the signal source
resistance.

Background, or sky noise from a receiving antenna is also represented
as being due to a fictitious rise in temperature of the antenna source
resistance.  All three noise sources (sky noise, antenna thermal
noise, and amplifier noise) are then represented in the same units.

-from Electronics For Your Future, by Dan Metzger, Technology
Training, Inc, Lambertville, MI


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 13:29:57 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 39
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55dfj5$[e-mail]>
References: <55d4ut$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

RE: K1BQT's comments

I don't see how your latest  comment adds anything to this thread, Rick.
All I hear from you is "bullshit"' (quote you) regarding your stance on
the CTHA. I think that says a lot. Quite a lot.

Why didn't you (or someone else) do what I did and build one? Why don't
you (or someone else) work out the numbers for SNR of uplink? All you need
to do is see if something with even a modest loss compared to a dipole can
still make this link easily. That's what those satellites were made
for--they have lots EIRP and a fair amount of  gain to pick up captured
airmen behind enemy lines, or stranded seamen on the high seas. Do you
think they use high gain antennas for an uplink?! So why is it a surprise
that they did it with the CTHA?

Furthermore I bet they're more interested in LEO telecom at 18cm. Those
satellites are only 450 miles up. Piece of cake.

Do you REALLY doubt that they accomplished this QSO?.

If you don't like press releases, don't read them. I don't believe that
IAS requested having it posted on the amateur radio antenna newsgroup. It
just seems silly to have any comments attacked in this way. Its cowardly.

Hey, anybody actually CALLED  IAS for info? They published their number; I
bet they'd be pleased to answer questions.

The fact that (some of) you guys jump on this stuff like vultures really
says a lot about where you are coming from. I am always amused on how
(some of ) you guys like to remind others how science is done--or your
supposed sense of how its done.

Again, maybe if (some of) you guys treat John Craven with a certain amount
of dignity he might answer your questions.

Why don't you ask him.Hmmm??

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.enteract.com!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!monroe.lib.mi.us!news
From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC Insulators
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:41:04 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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>using PVC pipe as an HF insulator.

I did some research on PVC insulation for coils for a book I wrote
about 20 years ago.  "PVC insulated wire should never be used for
winding coils.  PVC has severe dielectric loss at certain frequencies
which are a function of temperature, and serious reduction of the Q of
the coil will result.  Bakelite coil forms should be avoided at radio
frequencies for similar reasons." -Electronic Components, Instruments,
and Troubleshooting.

I wouldn't expect such troubles when using PVC as a housing for a dc
or 60-Hz motor, or as an antenna center insulator.

-Dan  K8JWR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.enteract.com!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!monroe.lib.mi.us!news
From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Vswr questions
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:47:42 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1996Oct29.124223.1@aspen>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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To: [e-mail]

>Should it read 150 watts out ? I am running a Kenwood ts820s

My Kenwood TS-820S Runs about 150 W in and shows 100 W forward on a
MFJ Versatuner II cross-needle meter.  The rule of thumb is about 75%
efficiency - P(out) / P(in) for a Class-C amp, but I believe the 820
is running in Class B, which is somewhat less efficient. -K8JWR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.enteract.com!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!monroe.lib.mi.us!news
From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Vswr questions
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:47:49 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1996Oct29.124223.1@aspen>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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To: [e-mail]

>Should it read 150 watts out ? I am running a Kenwood ts820s

My Kenwood TS-820S Runs about 150 W in and shows 100 W forward on a
MFJ Versatuner II cross-needle meter.  The rule of thumb is about 75%
efficiency - P(out) / P(in) for a Class-C amp, but I believe the 820
is running in Class B, which is somewhat less efficient. -K8JWR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!news.orst.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!purdue!yuma!usenet
From: fiz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax Question
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:50:47 -0800
Organization: Me
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <555ivs$[e-mail]> <yfXB2pANJ$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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> Mandy Wright wrote:
> >
> > In article <555ivs$[e-mail]>, William Cann
> > <[e-mail]> writes
> > >I have a roll of coax stamped "CG 92 H/U".  I cant seem to find
> > >anything about it on material I have on hand.  Does anyone know
> > >the specs on it?
> > >ie: impedence, loss/100ft and freq limits?
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > You're welcome!
> > Probably mil.spec. no. UR92
> > Z=50ohm  OD=0.54"  core=7/0.029"  die= polythene  cap= 30pf/ft
> > vel.f= 0.666
> > att(dB/100ft)=11 100mc/s  15.6db 200mc/s  19.2 at 300mc/s  27.5 600mc/s
> > Not suitable above 1gc/s
> > Data obtained from UK Home Office, Radio Regulatory Dept Listing of
> > Cable Losses.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> > Mandy

I do hope you mean Mc/s (as in Mega-) and not mc/s (as in milli-). This
is getting to be one of my biggest pet peaves. I'm not even sure M is
the correct prefix for Mega but I do hate to see m used. Anyway, there's
only a factor of about a kazillion difference :)

ttfn fiz (KG0YG)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!osshe.edu!internet!oconneld
From: Dan O'Connell <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Re;  Rhombic antenna
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:53:02 -0800
Organization: Oregon State System of Higher Education
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.961101104822.32035E-100000@internet>
References: <[e-mail]> <Pine.OSF.3.95.961030113822.18574D-100000@internet> <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Larry DiGioia wrote:

> Dan O'Connell wrote:
>
> > wish. You could even make them "rope yagis" if you have the supports.  I
> > also spent an enourmos amount of time computer modeling rhombics. It just
> > isnt worth the size, or matching problems. Dan WA7TDZ
>
>    The point is, at VHF, you can go ahead and just build it, and make
> adjustments based on performance, faster than you can "calculate" it. I
> guess I am just a "trial and error" kind of guy...
  true, but a bit harder to do very late at night and with gobs of snow on
the ground. the exercise was to pursue the best bang for the buck for a
Europe to North west 50 mhz project. However the land available for the
project was sold. multiple stacked "rope yagis" would use few supports and
get a
big sig for almost no $$$$$. of course you are stuck with the one
direction. every one has their own favorite projects...Dan WA7TDZ



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:06 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.enteract.com!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!monroe.lib.mi.us!news
From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: BBS Posting Removal Protocol
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:56:57 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm159-01.dialip.mich.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)

Can anyone tell me how this BBS decides when to remove a posting from
the board?  I made a posting on Tues (it's now Fri) and it's gone.
Yet I see a number of posts from Sun.

I'm using Netscape 2, and I have got my options set to "show all
messages."  Thanks, and sorry if this is a dumb question.

-Dan, K8JWR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:07 1996
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From: Ed Cregger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Diamond D-130 for 2m/440?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:02:48 -0500
Organization: Artisan Communications
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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John Palinkas wrote:
>
> I see in the spec sheet for the Diamond D-130 discone scanning antenna
> that it can be used to transmit on 2m and 440.  Does anyone have any
> experience with this antenna as far as transmitting with it?  I am
> trying to get by with one antenna for scanning and ham.  Thanks.
>
> John in N.E. Ohio
> KB8YTB

John,
        I have used the Diamond Disconne antenna for 2mtrs, 1.75mtrs and 70cms.
It works well on 2mtrs (like a 1/4 wave ground plane) and gets better
the higher up you go in frequency. While it will work on six meters, it
is touchy to tune and not very efficient. If you don't need the six
meter feature buy the Radio Shack version instead and save some dollars.

Ed, NM2K
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!stsci.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Phil Hodge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 1 Nov 1996 19:05:39 GMT
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55dhm3$[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bowline.stsci.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, "William E. Sabin" <sab
[e-mail]> writes:
|> Fractenna wrote:
|> >
|> > There still seems to be a few around who want some clarification on
|> > radiation from accelerating charges. Any comments on how the electron
|> > knows its accelerating because  of a  changing direction as opposed to
|> > accelerating because of an applied emf (on a straight line)?
|> >
|> > I don't believe the derivative of the vector valued function can
|> > distinguish the nature of the acceleration.
|> >
|>
|> The Lorentz force equation involves an electron drift velocity v and a
|> transverse  magnetic field B. This force is centripetal and involves the
|> cross product v X B. Since the force is at right angles to the direction
|> of the charge no energy is added to the particle but it accelerates
|> toward the center of its circular path.  If and only if the drift
|> velocity of the particle approaches the speed of light there is a loss of
|> energy due to synchrotron radiation.
|>
|> Bill W0IYH

Are you saying that an accelerated charge doesn't necessarily radiate?
The radiation from a charge moving in a circular orbit at uniform but
nonrelativistic speed is called cyclotron radiation.  Yes, it radiates.

                                                Phil


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:09 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!news.abs.net!news.scn.org!scn.org!bb840
From: [e-mail] (James Aeschliman)
Subject: Re: GET FAST CASH
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (James Aeschliman)
Organization: Seattle Community Network
References: <55a6eq$[e-mail]> <558fal$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:29:52 GMT
Lines: 18


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Fractenna) says:

>
>If you want to stop this stuff you need to send an e-mail to the author
>telling him--whatever.
>
Actually an e-mail to the originator's postmaster would be more effective.

Also, I've always believe the best way to get CASH FAST is:

                                GET A JOB

So I never respond to the illegal piramid schemes anyway.  And what's worse,
this has nothing to do with antennas either.
--
Jim Aeschliman                      [e-mail]
Black Diamond, Washington           KD7MK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:10 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How do you measure radiation resistance?
Date: 1 Nov 1996 14:35:49 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 85
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55djel$[e-mail]>
References: <55csg0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <55csg0$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:

>Actually Tom, someone asked a question and you implied they were dumb
even
>to ask it. What a surprise!

If it sounded that way I didn't intend it to. But the fact remains,
radiation resistance is an almost useless parameter unless there is very
specific reason to apply it.

Let's talk about radition resistance Chip. Perhaps the best way is to look
at an article and see how the author used the term, what was implied, and
what the facts are. Since you were critical of others not discussing
articles directly with the autors, let's look at one you wrote.

One article that comes to mind is the one appearing in the Summer 1996
Communications Quarterly. On page 58 there is a section attempting to use
radiation resistance to estimate the loss of a loop antenna. The author
(Chip) modeled the loop, and used the feedpoint's resitive value as the
radiation resistance. The author expected an increase in that resistance
to prove an increase in antenna efficiency.

What the author missed is the feedpoint resistance is not an indicator of
efficiency, or radiation resistance. It mearly represents the resistance
at one part of a complex system, that includes impedance transformation in
the radiator as well as all resistive losses.

For example, a small uniform current loop broken and series fed at any
point would exhibit the same impedance regardless of feedpoint location.
If the same loop was fed across the tuning capacitor, the feedpoint
impedance would skyrocket, yet radiation efficiency (and raduiation
resistance) would remain identical. That's because radiation resistance is
really defined as the square of the total current at the maximum current
point divided into the total power radiated as electromagnetic radiation.

Efficiency is determined by measuring the loss resistance by the same
method, except now the difference between the applied power and radiated
power is used. So loss resistance is  I^2 / (P-Pr).

We can see the author mistakenly omitted both radiated power and applied
power, and instead used the simple but incorrect feedpoint resistance as
the basis for his claims of increased efficiency.

Radiation resistance is maximized, in a small single radiator, when
current is uniform across the whole spatial area of the radiation. 2nd
year physics books, like Fundamentals of Electricity and Magnetism
(McGraw-Hill), and more advanced books (Jordan, Jasik, Kraus),  describe
radiation as the effect that occurs when a charge is accelerated. The
effect is additive if charges accelerate in step from the angle of view
(allowing for time delay in space), and cancels if charges accelerate in a
direction that causes opposing effects at the distant point.

It is only the total charges that move together in unison, as viewed from
a distance, that causes radiation. Opposing movements cancel the effects.
That's why transmission lines, with equal and opposite currents, do not
radiate. That's why antennas with in phase currents along their length
radiate very well.

The author, perhaps by not understaning this, thought that folding the
antenna up and increasing conductor length would improve efficiency. In
reality, the effect is the opposite of desired because the folds carry
charges accelerating in different directions at the same time. This
cancels radiation effects, and increases resistive losses. At the same
time, it concentrates current in a smaller area, making the radiation
resistance DROP. While the feedpoint resistance increased, the author
actually reduced radiation resistance and increased loss resistance.

I hope this example better explains my comments about radiation resistance
and charge acceleration. Radiation resistance is totally meaningless
except when compared to loss resistance measured by correct methods. ALL
of radiation resistance measurements MUST include a method of determining
the total power radiated and power lost as heat.

Even the example posted by Mandy does this via stopping the radiation
field and measuring the change in feedpoint resistance. In that case, the
radiation resistance and loss resistance are normalized to the feedpoint,
which may not be the true loop radiation resistance. The feedpoint must be
in series with the single current loop of the antenna in order to achieve
the accepted loop radiation resistance.

Anything else would be incorrect. Is there anything I need to expand on
Chip?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.bri.connect.com.au!fjholden.OntheNet.com.au!news
From: Jon Jenkins <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Announce: RF version 1.1 available (includes limited license facility for evaluation)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 19:50:09 GMT
Organization: Academic Technologies
Lines: 44
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If you are not a registered RF user or are not interested in
radio or micorwave circuit design then hit delete now.

This news item announces that a new version of RF (1.1) is available.

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From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dan Kruger)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need longwire design info
Date: 1 Nov 1996 20:25:52 GMT
Organization: Sierra-Net
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jobs-d151.sierra.net

I need some input on longwire antennas: I'd like to put one up for
shortwave listening this winter. I have about 3/4 of an acre with many 150
ft+ trees on it, so space or height isn't a problem. I live in a
mountainous area, and we are near the base of a 9000 ft mountain in a
shallow canyon (more like a step than a canyon).

My questions are

1) Will a full wavelength (or longer) antenna outperform a smaller one
(1/2 or 1/4 wave)?

2) If I go with a full wavelength or longer antenna, how do I calculate
the length for a given frequency?

3) Is there any benefit to sloping, dog legging, inverted L, making a loop, et
c?

4) How should I orient the antenna: parallel or perpendicular to the canyon?

5) What's the best kind of wire to use? I've used stranded copper without
insulation before, but can't seem to find it in lengths longer than 50ft.

6) Is there any benefit to a center-fed vs. an end-fed set-up?

Any input or experiences is much appreciated!

-Dan

--
Dan Kruger
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC Insulators
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 20:45:58 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <55dnhp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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I'm not sure of the validity of the test as regardign HF frequencies,
but I have seen people suggest putting a piece of the PVC material in
question inside a microwave oven along with a bowl of water (to act as
a dummy load for the microwave energy).

If the PVC pipe is metal-free, it will remain cool.  If it contains
any form of metallic material, then it will get hot.

I would imagine that if it can stand up to near-field microwave
energy, it ought to be safe for legal limit HF applications.

Just my uninformed opnion, though.

Steve
WB7PSD



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:14 1996
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From: Kok Chen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:57:25 -0700
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55cc7g$[e-mail]> <55cuba$[e-mail]> <55de76$[e-mail]>
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Roy wrote,

>It's the pen name of the writer of a column in World Radio.

His full moniker is, of course, Kurt N. Sterba (just say it fast).
Forgot what is the name of his XYL now...

73

Kok Chen, AA6TY


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Chuck Forsberg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: T2FD antenna
Date: 1 Nov 1996 21:26:46 GMT
Organization: RainDrop Laboratories/Agora(sm), Portland, Oregon
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <55dpum$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agora.rdrop.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
Richard Helton <[e-mail]> wrote:
>John Charles ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: Query from a SWL;
>
>: I've just read the details concerning the building of the T2FD antenna
>: in the November issue of Short Wave Magazine (Decode section) and was
>: wondering if my reception on 10 through 40m ham bands would improve over
>: what I get from using my present end fed 66 foot long wire.
>
>  It is supposedly a really terrific receiving antenna.  Build one for
>  the lowest band you wish to hear and it will work for that band and all
>  the way up to 10 meters.  It is also supposed to be quite.  If your
>  short on space design it for 7mhz and it will only be about 45 foot long.
>
>--
>                                             [e-mail]

I use an Rf Ssytems "DX Listener" antenna, which switches between
T2FD and simple longwire.  On some frequencies there is about a 10db
difference in signal to noise ratio because the T2FD mode supresses
locally generated computer RFI.  CB band is slightly quieter  in T2FD
mode.  49 meters seems about the same either way.

My experience suggests the noise reduction properties of the T2FD
are quite sensitive to the location of the antenna away from
trees or other objects.  The T2FD seems more resistant to nearby
QRN than to distant QRN, say from power lines 1/2 mile or farther
away.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX     [e-mail]     http://www.omen.com
   Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software"
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, RZ, SZ, Pro-YAM, ZCOMM, GSZ, and DSZ
TeleGodzilla BBS: 503-617-1698  FTP: ftp.cs.pdx.edu pub/zmodem
POB 4681 Portland OR 97208     503-614-0430   FAX:[phone]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:16 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 16:49:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 15
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In article <55dfj5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:

>
>The fact that (some of) you guys jump on this stuff like vultures really
>says a lot about where you are coming from. I am always amused on how
>(some of ) you guys like to remind others how science is done--or your
>supposed sense of how its done.

Hi Chip,

Could you take a moment and explain the scientific methods you use to test
antennas?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:18 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:50:00 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55dhm3$[e-mail]>
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Phil Hodge wrote:
>
>
> Are you saying that an accelerated charge doesn't necessarily radiate?
> The radiation from a charge moving in a circular orbit at uniform but
> nonrelativistic speed is called cyclotron radiation.  Yes, it radiates.

It does not radiate if its energy state is not changing.

The acceleration involved here is the usual acceleration toward the
center of radius of a particle that is in a stable orbit. As I said very
carefully, the force on the particle by the magnetic field is at right
angles to its velocity, therefore no energy is imparted to the particle
by the transverse magnetic field. It is a *centripetal* force. You might
like to review the subject of centripetal force. Also see Kraus
"Electromagnetics" fourth edition, chapter 7. Also see Sessler, "New
Particle Acceleration Techniques" Physics Today, January 1988.

In a cyclotron the particle energy is increased by the electric field
between the dees, not by the magnetic field that controls the orbit path.

I also said that the radiation is negligible unless the particle speed is
very near the speed of light. My statement was very careful and very
precise.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:19 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ask for Ron Lindon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ICOM IC706 Any modifications known?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 23:09:07 GMT
Organization: Success Systems
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <55dvsd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: success.u-net.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

please reply via email as I can only get to view these newsgroups once
every two weeks or so and I might miss a follow up.

Thanks

Ron Lindon, c/o
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 18:18:09 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 22
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Message-ID: <55e0fh$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

In his response, N1IR said:

I don't see how your latest  comment adds anything to this thread, Rick.
All I hear from you is "bullshit"' (quote you) regarding your stance on
the CTHA. I think that says a lot. Quite a lot.

My repy:

Why am I not surprised that you don't get what I (and several others on
here) are driving at concerning documented results?  As for "building
one", I've seen some of the things you've "built"--and I'm not sure your
renditions always represent everything an experienced design engineer
would be looking for (and, if you've built it, why haven't you reported
your findings?).  If I were John Craven, I too think I'd prefer to
represent myself rather than have you as a spokesperson on this matter.
Perhaps your department chairman would like to see the printouts of what
you've been generating on the internet lately as evidence of your
scholarly prowess in the field of physics and electrical engineering?  Or,
perhaps, as you suggest, I'm simply out of touch with the way things
should be done.

RIck--K1BQT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax Question
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 23:23:31 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 39
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <555ivs$[e-mail]>
 <yfXB2pANJ$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
<[e-mail]> writes
>Mandy Wright wrote:
>>
>> In article <555ivs$[e-mail]>, William Cann
>> <[e-mail]> writes
>> >I have a roll of coax stamped "CG 92 H/U".  I cant seem to find
>> >anything about it on material I have on hand.  Does anyone know
>> >the specs on it?
>> >ie: impedence, loss/100ft and freq limits?
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> You're welcome!
>> Probably mil.spec. no. UR92
>> Z=50ohm  OD=0.54"  core=7/0.029"  die= polythene  cap= 30pf/ft
>> vel.f= 0.666
>> att(dB/100ft)=11 100mc/s  15.6db 200mc/s  19.2 at 300mc/s  27.5 600mc/s
>> Not suitable above 1gc/s
>> Data obtained from UK Home Office, Radio Regulatory Dept Listing of
>> Cable Losses.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>> Mandy
>
>altavoz: 11db at 100 mc/s !!!    RG8FOAM is 1.7 db .

At 1am I am not surprised I made a mistake when reading from a column of
figures!  We gave in error the figures for attenuation of UR94.  They
should read > att(dB/100ft)=2.07 100mc/s  3.02db 200mc/s  3.8 at 300mc/s
5.66 600mc/s  7.68 at 1gc/s.  All other figures are correct.  Not
recommended at  3 gc/s.

Thanks for pointing this out  :)
Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netaxs.com!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 23:34:31 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 56
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
<[e-mail]> writes
>JAMES MCEWEN wrote:
>>
>>      ***********************************************************
>>
>>      The Wiz of altaOZ wrote:
>>      altavoz: We dropped the use of the word RESONANT years ago.
>>      It's meaningless. We use Q . Q is rate of change of reactance
>>      over frequency .
>>
>>      ***********************************************************
>>
>>
>>      Wiz, I just don't understand what you said here.
>>
>>      For instance:  In a series RLC circuit
>>
>>                 XsubL = 2Pi_f_L  so by your statement
>>
>>                  Q  =  dt(2Pi_f_L)/f
>>
>>
>>                     since 2Pi & L are constant
>>                     they can come outside the function
>>
>>
>>                  Q  = 2PiL dt(f)/f  = 2PiL (1) = a constant
>>
>>                  Are you saying that Q = 2PiL  ?
>>
>>
>>       I think by the definition of Q, it is a meaningful number only
>>      at the resonant frequency.  In a series RLC circuit Q is defined
>>      as:
>>
>>                Q = (2Pi_f-sub-r_L)/R where f-sub-r is the resonant
>>      frequency and R is the series resistance of the circuit.
>>
>>
>>      So going back to your original statement quoted at the top of
>>      this posting, what were you trying to explain?
>>
>>      Jim KA6TPR
>
>
>altavoz DUH , RATE OF CHANGE OF REACTANCE OVER FREQ ( this is a
>repeat for those who cant read)
>
>______End of text  from altavoz___________
I thought , but perhaps I'm wrong that Q = wL/R  or Q = fo/f1-f2.
Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:24 1996
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From: [e-mail] (A N Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WHY antennas of 5/8 wavelength?
Date: 1 Nov 96 23:38:33 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

   Judging from some of the replies I have seen, there
seems to be confusion in certain quarters regarding
radials and ground systems.
   I agree that taller verticals require longer radials.
However, the world does not end at the end of the
radials, even if they are .6 wavelength radials used with
a 5/8-wavelength vertical.  Ground losses beyond .25,
.5, or even .625 wavelength do affect distant field strength
measurements.  Even if you have a perfect ground
system extending out to .6-wavelength, if your 5/8-wave
antenna is situated in an otherwise lossy environment,
you will have major losses in field strength at low
radiation angles.  And since the 5/8-wave antenna
concentrates its radiation at a lower angle than the 1/4-wave
antenna, the former will have proportionally greater losses
at low angles. [Some of us might even say that maybe we
should just call the 5/8-wave antenna a worm-warming
antenna].  I believe that is why a number of us are saying
that the 5/8-wave antenna is not unconditionally always better
than a quarter-wave vertical.
   See "Antennas and Techniques for Low-Band DXing,"
2nd ed., fig. 9-40 (p. 9-31).  Also, as suggested by Roy,
"The 5/8-wavelength Antenna Mystique," in the ARRL
Antenna Compendium, vol.1.

73,
Arliss   W7XU


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:26 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to build a 800MHz Yagi?
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 23:59:44 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 40
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <JYr$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Paul Smith
<[e-mail]> writes
>R Ho wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wish to build a 830MHz 6 element data transmission YAGI myself.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me how to build one. It would be nice if someone
>>
>> can supply me with the specification of such Yagi (e.g. the
>>
>> element position from rear of boom, element length.....e.t.c.).
>>
>> Is there anything special about the driven element of 800MHz
>>
>> Yagi? Do we build them the same way as building a 2 Meters
>>
>> band Yagi?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Mr R Ho (AK)
>> [e-mail]
>> 14-Oct-96
>
>Take a design for a 430 (70cm) Yagi and scale it down to suit.  About
>+/- 50% should do.
Or you could buy a Group E TV antenna or a Band V Log Periodic.
A lot less trouble as the work's done for you and probably quite cheap.
Recommend Antiference, J Beam or Wolsley.

Dont buy rubbish, they have no balun.

Regards
Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:27 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MW Loop Antenna question
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:22:48 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 81
Distribution: world
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In article <[e-mail]>, Joe
<[e-mail]> writes
>I am looking for a design of a loop antenna similar to the KIWA MW
>loop. Unfortunately, I can't possibly afford the 350 UKP price of the
>KIWA, much as I would like to buy it, so building a similar
>design(balanced loop with DG Mosfet amplifier and bandwidth control)
>is the only alternative. Has anyone built a design by GF Maynard
>called the "WQ medium wave loop"? . This appeared in the UK "Shortwave
>magazine" in November 1986, and looks very impressive. However, the
>construction is VERY complex, so I would like to gather any opinions
>before starting on the project myself.
>
>TIP FOR UK LOOP FANATICS:
>Any experimenters with loops might like to know that ARGOS sells a
>product called a "TV Turntable" for around 7UKP, which is perfect for
>mounting a rotating loop, especially if it's completed project and a
>smart appearance is needed. AFAIK it is only available at ARGOS
>superstores. I have had difficulty in finding very wide diameter
>plastic pipe(12 to 24 inches) or something similar, again for loops.
>Any ideas?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Joe Kirlew

External noise levels on MW, even during daylight winter, will exceed
KTB by some 40-50 dB (see CCIR Report 322).  Therefore an overall system
noise figure of 30 dB will give the maximum signal+noise/noise ratio
obtainable.

The use of a tuned loop will have discrimination in both unwanted
frequencies and unwanted directions.  The use of an amplifier between
the loop and the receiver will degrade the system unless it has a lower
noise factor than the receiver, and the gain is not high enough to cause
intermodulation distortion or gain compression in the receiver.


Make a medium-wave loop as follows:

8 turns of wire on 3 foot square frame made from 1 inch by 1 inch
timber.
Fit diagonal brace across the square and extend for 3 feet.
This should look like a diamond-shaped kite on a vertical broomstick!
The start and finish of the winding should be at the bottom.
Across the ends of this coil connect a tuning capacitor (say 300-500 pf)
removed from a scrap AM radio, or buy one from Tandy/Radio Shack.

A one-turn loop is now added, the ends of which run down the vertical
pole ( it must not be electrically connected to the turns). Use coaxial
cable here if the receiver has a low impedance external antenna
connection.

If not, then:- connect single turn via a piece of twin flex up to 10
feet long.  The other end of this is connected to a coil of 8 turns of
wire wound on a 1 inch length of 1 inch plastic tube. Slide this over
the ferrite stick antenna of your tuner.

Rotating the large loop broadside on to the station you require and
tuning the loop for maximum signal you may then slowly rotate the large
loop to null out the interfering signals.

If you find the capacitor is almost fully open ie minimum capacity, when
tuned to a peak on a staion at 1000 kc/s take a turn off the loop, and
try 7 turns.  Depending on the size of your loop, the length of the
feeder, and the size of the capacitor, you may find as little as 5 turns
will be sufficient to cover the whole of the AM broadcast band.

I (my husband!) have used a loop like this (coupled to a communications
receiver) to pick up US broadcast stations at home during the
winter months.

If you want further info, mail me

Regards
Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:28 1996
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From: Ginsberg Family <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 75 ohm coax
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 16:40:50 -0800
Organization: "Netport Internet Access [phone]"
Lines: 6
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Hi guys, Can any one offer advice on using 75 ohm hardline that I can get at
a super price for 50 ohm ham radio equipment.  I will need to make or by
transformers for the ends to get the 50 ohm impedence, What can I exspect on
losses  any help appreciated. Ed KE6BNL
--
1╛


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:29 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Goniometer feed for bal line ?
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:44:24 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 60
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1996Oct29.130802@axp1>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-symposium.demon.co.uk
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In article <[e-mail]>, Jari Jokiniemi
<[e-mail]> writes
>
>In article <[e-mail]> Mandy Wright <Mandy@t
he-
>symposium.demon.co.uk> writes:
>   I presume you are refering to a Variometer, ie a tunable inductor.
>   A goniometer is an untuned rotating transformer used for angle
>   measurement in a radio direction finder, fitted between the receiver
>   input and a pair of loop antenna or an Adcock array.
>
>Anyone care to explain what are the electrical differences between a
>variometer and a goniometer? I happen to have a <whatever-it-is> which
>is composed of two coils. The inner one rotates. The <whatever-it-is>
>is from an old ship radio and might well be used for direction
>finding. It pretty much looks similart to the <whatever-it-was> that
>was referred to me as being a variometer. So how can I tell whether or
>not the thing is a variometer or a goniometer?
>--
>Jari Jokiniemi, [e-mail], OH2MPO, OH3BU
>Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, [phone]

A goniometer consists of 4 small coils arranged in quadrants in a
cylinder, very much like the field windings of a car starter motor, but
in miniature.  The inner ends of the windings are all joined together as
a common point, the outer ends are available for the connection via
coaxial cable to either an Adcock array or to the ends of a pair of
loops mounted at 90 degrees (Bellini-Tosi).  The four input terminals
will be marked NSEW or For and Aft, Port and Starboard.  The output pair
go to the receiver.  These devices are quite small (1" diameter, 2" long
and completely screened), often containing ferrite or manganese/zinc
cores, and int the case of the XG189 (Marconi) is used for marine DF.
For further info see: Wireless Direction Finding by Captain R Keen, of
the Marconi Company.  These cannot be used for transmitting except at
very low power, ie milliwatts as the slip rings and brushgear will be
burnt out, and in any case there is always the possibility that the core
will saturate.

A variometer consists of one fixed coil on a cylinder and within it a
second rotating coil mounted axially.  A shaft at right angles to the
outer cylinder passes through and is fastened to the inner coil.  The
two coils are connected in series.  This arrangement allows the inner to
be rotated in relation to the outer, the effect of which will be to add
in phase, null, or antiphase (subtract).  The value of the inner
inductor will always be smaller than that of the outer.  By this
arrangement we have a variable inductor without any contacts (as in a
tapped coil or roller coaster)  to wear, or unused turns which may have
spurious resonances.  The construction of a variometer is usually very
heavy wire on a solid former, and they are used for tuning the antenna
circuit of MF/HF marine or aircraft transmitters feeding an electrically
short antenna, which by nature has a low radiation resistance and is
capacitive: therefore the variometer will be carrying high voltages and
currents.

Hope this helps

Mandy
(Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
Sussex
UK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Importance of coax length on HF   A myth?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 96 00:44:53 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <55e5id$[e-mail]>
References: <54nc7a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   Dave Hand <[e-mail]> wrote:

>An electrical 1/2 of coax is a tried and true method of mesuring
>the SWR at the antenna feed point remotely for exactly that reason.
>Its totally invisible to the remote test gear. If you doubt it try it!

You probably mean "measuring the impedance at the antenna feed point". If
used for that purpose, even a small amount of coax loss can make a
suprising amount of difference in the measurement. It's particularly bad if
the impedance to be measured is very different from the Z0 of the half
wavelength cable. Loss will cause the value looking into the line to be
skewed toward the Z0 of the cable.

As for SWR measurement, consider an antenna which has exactly a 50 ohm
feedpoint resistance and no reactance. Connect it to your rig with a half
wavelength of 75 ohm cable, and put an SWR meter at the rig end. A 50 ohm
SWR meter will read 1:1. The SWR on the cable is 1.5:1. A 75 ohm SWR meter,
if you can find one, will read 1.5:1. (Actually, the meter will read a
little less due to inevitable cable loss.)

How about an antenna which has a 75 ohm feedpoint resistance and no
reactance, connected to the rig with a 50 ohm cable? A 50 ohm SWR meter at
the rig will measure 1.5:1, regardless of the length of the coax. (Again,
the actual reading will be a little less due to loss, and will decrease
as the coax gets longer because then the loss gets greater.)

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news-master!news
From: "Mitch, WA4OSR" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Subject: Vibroplex web page up...
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:56:25 -0600
Organization: The Vibroplex Co., Inc.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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The Vibroplex web page is now up at-
http://www.vibroplex.com

check it out, and give me your feedback...

thanks,
mitch
--
-------- * * * VIBROPLEX - The oldest name in ham radio! * * ---------
Felton "Mitch" Mitchell, WA4OSR                The Vibroplex Co., Inc.
[e-mail]                               11 Midtown Park, E.
334-478-8873, FAX [phone]                   Mobile, AL 36606-4141


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: Dave Burtis <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 20:39:30 -0500
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Dave Hockaday wrote:
>
> David Cooley wrote:
> > Well,
> > While looking for something else, I ran across the plans for my full
> > wave vertical antenna... it can be used for any band, as equations are
> > given for all dimensions... it was published in 73 magazine, August,
> > 1989.  According to the article, it performs (Gain and radiation wise) "
> > as good or better than a commercial 5/8 wave vertical".
> > If anyone is interested, next week when I get back to work I can fax
> > copies, or copy and mail out hard copy.
> > 73 de N5XMT
>
> Me please!! I'd love to have a copy, Dave.
>
> --
> 73 de Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
> Youngsville, NC
> [e-mail]
>
> http://www.ipass.net/~wb4iuy/
> http://www.ipass.net/~hockaday/
> http://www.ipass.net/~teara/
> http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3349/
> http://www.RTPnet.org/~fcarc/
> http://www.RTPnet.org/~rdrc/

Me also E-mail me a copy :)
[e-mail]

Thanks


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:33 1996
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From: Edward Oros <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Thanks All!
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 20:52:16 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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Thanks for all the responses...


Ed--AC3L


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Taanya)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 1 Nov 1996 21:31:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55ebq3$[e-mail]>
References: <54ckvs$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Chippy Honey:

you act just like a little boy.

if I had a man(?) like you I'd stay away from home as much as posb.  mebbe
move out and live with a better man like Richard Simmons. I bet your
screen name isn't the only tiny little fractal handle you have.

Love (puke is more like it)
Taanya


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:35 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 03:21:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <55eenh$[e-mail]>
References: <55at7i$[e-mail]> <55d8jq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ala-ca17-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Nov 01  7:21:21 PM PST 1996

In <55d8jq$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:
>
>In article <55at7i$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
>Lewallen) writes:
>
>>Actually, the gain relative to a single element can in some cases be
>>greater when loss is greater.
>>
>>The 90-degree phased, 90-degree spaced antenna is an interesting
special
>>case. For this antenna, the gain relative to a single element will
always
>
>>be 3 dB, regardless of the loss. This assumes that both elements are
>>identical and have the same amount of loss.
>
>Hi Roy,
>
>I noticed he was planning on using 30 ft spacing, which is .055 wl on
160.
>Unless I'm missing something, efficiency of both elements will drop
>drastically at that spacing.
>
>The array would be very valuable for receiving, even at that close
>spacing, but not for transmitting unless the matching system and
ground
>system was very well constructed. My receiving array uses four
elements
>spaced .125 WL on 160.
>
>But with my pair of full size verticals on 160 and a full complement
of
>radials, I kept the spacing almost 2/10 wl to minimize headaches from
>mutual coupling.
>
>In any event, a power divider is unnecessary.
>
>73 Tom

    Hi Tom-

    OK, if not a Wilskenson power divider (or similar), then what steps
do you take to assure equal element currents?  Yes, mutual coupling
does make the whole problem difficult but, it seems to me, that
changing the element spacing just sets up a new set of problematic
conditions with mutuals.  This is not mentioned in this and your prior
posts.

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV


you


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:36 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Charles Curtis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Diamond D-130 for 2m/440?
Date: 2 Nov 96 03:23:06 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 17:10:06 GMT
> From: [e-mail] (John Palinkas)
> Subject: Diamond D-130 for 2m/440?
>
> I see in the spec sheet for the Diamond D-130 discone scanning antenna
> that it can be used to transmit on 2m and 440.  Does anyone have any
> experience with this antenna as far as transmitting with it?  I am
> trying to get by with one antenna for scanning and ham.  Thanks.
>
> John in N.E. Ohio
> KB8YTB

I've used the D-130 for 2m xmt/rcv (and other bands, but not 440) for over
three years.  It works well and I'm happy with it.  The swr is less than
1.5:1 on 2m and is also very good on 6m and 220.  The best thing about this
antenna is that is covers all the vhf and uhf ham bands up to 1.2 Ghz.
Granted, it's lacks the gain of other antennas, but very few of them can
beat it's bandwidth.  It has a small wind load also.  Mr. Kandoian invented
a truely remarkable antenna, the discone.

73 de Chuck, N2UCN

amprnet: [e-mail]           internet: [e-mail]
ax25   : n2ucn@wa2soc.#nnj.nj.usa.na     internet: [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:37 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 2 Nov 1996 03:34:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <55effj$[e-mail]>
References: <55d4ut$[e-mail]> <55dfj5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ala-ca17-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Nov 01  7:34:11 PM PST 1996

In <55dfj5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fractenna)
writes:
>
>RE: K1BQT's comments
>
>I don't see how your latest  comment adds anything to this thread,
Rick.
>All I hear from you is "bullshit"' (quote you) regarding your stance
on
>the CTHA. I think that says a lot. Quite a lot.
>
>Why didn't you (or someone else) do what I did and build one? Why
don't
>you (or someone else) work out the numbers for SNR of uplink? All you
need
>to do is see if something with even a modest loss compared to a dipole
can
>still make this link easily. That's what those satellites were made
>for--they have lots EIRP and a fair amount of  gain to pick up
captured
>airmen behind enemy lines, or stranded seamen on the high seas. Do you
>think they use high gain antennas for an uplink?! So why is it a
surprise
>that they did it with the CTHA?
>
>Furthermore I bet they're more interested in LEO telecom at 18cm.
Those
>satellites are only 450 miles up. Piece of cake.
>
>Do you REALLY doubt that they accomplished this QSO?.
>
>If you don't like press releases, don't read them. I don't believe
that
>IAS requested having it posted on the amateur radio antenna newsgroup.
It
>just seems silly to have any comments attacked in this way. Its
cowardly.
>
>Hey, anybody actually CALLED  IAS for info? They published their
number; I
>bet they'd be pleased to answer questions.
>
>The fact that (some of) you guys jump on this stuff like vultures
really
>says a lot about where you are coming from. I am always amused on how
>(some of ) you guys like to remind others how science is done--or your
>supposed sense of how its done.
>
>Again, maybe if (some of) you guys treat John Craven with a certain
amount
>of dignity he might answer your questions.
>
>Why don't you ask him.Hmmm??
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

    Chip-

    Good questions!

    This is called "experts" syndrome:  My mind is made up,
don't confuse me with the facts.  :) :)

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:38 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.cdsnet.net!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 2 Nov 1996 04:02:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <55eh5i$[e-mail]>
References: <54ckvs$[e-mail]> <55ebq3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ala-ca17-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Nov 01 10:02:58 PM CST 1996

In <55ebq3$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Taanya) writes:
>
>Chippy Honey:
>
>you act just like a little boy.
>
>if I had a man(?) like you I'd stay away from home as much as posb.
mebbe
>move out and live with a better man like Richard Simmons. I bet your
>screen name isn't the only tiny little fractal handle you have.
>
>Love (puke is more like it)
>Taanya

    A message, out of the wilderness of anonymity, that should be
IGNORED. Another "cute" TROULBEMAKER cometh!

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (J. Fred Riley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Importance of coax length on HF   A myth?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 04:42:40 GMT
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[e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
>How about an antenna which has a 75 ohm feedpoint resistance and no
>reactance, connected to the rig with a 50 ohm cable? A 50 ohm SWR meter at
>the rig will measure 1.5:1, regardless of the length of the coax.

I think you meant to say, "...connected to the rig with 75 ohm  coax."


Fred

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:40 1996
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From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 21:07:54 -0800
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David Cooley wrote:
> Well,
> While looking for something else, I ran across the plans for my full
> wave vertical antenna... it can be used for any band, as equations are
> given for all dimensions... it was published in 73 magazine, August,
> 1989.  According to the article, it performs (Gain and radiation wise) "
> as good or better than a commercial 5/8 wave vertical".
> If anyone is interested, next week when I get back to work I can fax
> copies, or copy and mail out hard copy.
> 73 de N5XMT

Me please!! I'd love to have a copy, Dave.

--
73 de Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
Youngsville, NC
[e-mail]

http://www.ipass.net/~wb4iuy/
http://www.ipass.net/~hockaday/
http://www.ipass.net/~teara/
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3349/
http://www.RTPnet.org/~fcarc/
http://www.RTPnet.org/~rdrc/


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tim Hohs)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AM antenna lead-in location?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 05:35:35 GMT
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This is exactly what's been on my mind lately.  I live in a hole in
the mountains and I'm trying to improve my really crappy AM reception.
(My FM reception is ok) I hooked the radio up to a spare tv antenna
and the FM antenna on the roof and stretched a hundred  feet of wire
out to a tree but none of these improved on the little AM hoop antenna
that's nailed to the wall above the radio.

Is there a good, cheap, easy antenna that might help me pick up some
decent AM?   Where'd you get the plans for yours Robert?  And did it
work?

Tim



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 01:00:36 -0500
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In article <55eenh$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:

>
>    Hi Tom-
>
>    OK, if not a Wilskenson power divider (or similar), then what steps
>do you take to assure equal element currents?  Yes, mutual coupling
>does make the whole problem difficult but, it seems to me, that
>changing the element spacing just sets up a new set of problematic
>conditions with mutuals.  This is not mentioned in this and your prior
>posts.
>
>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV
>
>

Hi Tony,

I use about 100 ft spacing.
Current is controlled by changing the impedance presented at the common
point (where the two lines are combined) by adjusting the T networks (they
also adjust phase slightly). The common point is then matched to 50 ohms.

This is a little tricky, because the networks need to be swapped  like
this:

E  ant------90 deg line-----e      1------T
net---===delay===180==cp---Tnet---2
W ant------90 deg line-----w

cp is common point
delay line is 75 ohm 20 degrees shorter than S with a 180 degree flip
lines to antennas are 50 ohms

The T's are adjusted for deep back nulls (listening over the air) with
minimum SWR at the CP feed (it's touched up with a L net at CP added after
initial adjustment).

I do MOST of the phase in the delay line, the rest and power division in
the T's. Whatever is connected to 2 is the front, whatever connected to 1
is the rear. I just swap the antenna feeders around at 1 and 2. This does
it all, and is usable about 100 kHz wide on 160 with 1/4 wl verts. About
30-40 dB f/b at optimum freq and direction, maybe 20dB or so typical.

I mix this antenna through a variable phase and level network with my
receiving arrays on RX to notch QRN or peak desired signals. A little more
complex than normal, but optimum and adjustable.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:43 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 22:11:32 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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Mandy Wright wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
> <[e-mail]> writes
> >JAMES MCEWEN wrote:
> >>
> >>      ***********************************************************
> >>
> >>      The Wiz of altaOZ wrote:
> >>      altavoz: We dropped the use of the word RESONANT years ago.
> >>      It's meaningless. We use Q . Q is rate of change of reactance
> >>      over frequency .
> >>
> >>      ***********************************************************
> >>
> >>
> >>      Wiz, I just don't understand what you said here.
> >>
> >>      For instance:  In a series RLC circuit
> >>
> >>                 XsubL = 2Pi_f_L  so by your statement
> >>
> >>                  Q  =  dt(2Pi_f_L)/f
> >>
> >>
> >>                     since 2Pi & L are constant
> >>                     they can come outside the function
> >>
> >>
> >>                  Q  = 2PiL dt(f)/f  = 2PiL (1) = a constant
> >>
> >>                  Are you saying that Q = 2PiL  ?
> >>
> >>
> >>       I think by the definition of Q, it is a meaningful number only
> >>      at the resonant frequency.  In a series RLC circuit Q is defined
> >>      as:
> >>
> >>                Q = (2Pi_f-sub-r_L)/R where f-sub-r is the resonant
> >>      frequency and R is the series resistance of the circuit.
> >>
> >>
> >>      So going back to your original statement quoted at the top of
> >>      this posting, what were you trying to explain?
> >>
> >>      Jim KA6TPR
> >
> >
> >altavoz DUH , RATE OF CHANGE OF REACTANCE OVER FREQ ( this is a
> >repeat for those who cant read)
> >
> >______End of text  from altavoz___________
> I thought , but perhaps I'm wrong that Q = wL/R  or Q = fo/f1-f2.
> Mandy
> (Replying on behalf of my husband who hates computers
> despite being a practising RF Engineer!)
> Sussex
> UK


altavoz ( the magnificent,all powerful, all knowing, and all that other
bullshit....)

You're getting close to the idea with your   "Q = fo/f1-f2"
Quit fighting it ,and you'll see the value in it.
People are so busy fighting others ideas , that they aren't picking
up the concept. For example , an 20 meter horiz 1/2 wl dipole
has a feed point of 80 ohms , right ? HELL no you say ! it's 72 !
Wait a minute , what if its .625 wl above gnd ? ( 58 ohms)...
or .35 wl above gnd ? (97 ohms). We're arguing so much , we're not
learning from each other.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:44 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 22:34:03 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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A N Thompson wrote:
>
> [My instincts tell me that I shouldn't get involved in this
> discussion, but I can't resist]
>
> I agree with Chip, Tom, et al, regarding the theoretical
> advantage of the 5/8-wavelength antenna vs. the results
> obtainable in practice over a less than ideal ground
> plane; i.e., it's not as effective in the real world as it is on
> paper.  When over lossy ground, the very low angle
> radiation from the 5/8-wavelength antenna is absorbed
> in the ground rather than being reflected.

altavoz: Does SEA WATER absorb the signal too !
ha ha ha .....Thats why hams near ocean cant do
DX ?!!1  ha ha ha ha
Thats why boats cant transmit HF ?!  ha ha ha ha.
 IM WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER !!!



> circumstances the high-angle lobe becomes a major
> portion of the far field radiation from the antenna.

altavoz: Untrue.

> The taller (1/2- and 5/8-wave) verticals require more
> extensive grounds than does the 1/4-wave vertical.  The
> 1/4-wave antenna will outperform a 1/2-wave antenna unless
> an (excellent) ground plane extends out to about 1.5 wave-
> lengths.  The 5/8-wave antenna requires and even more
> extensive ground.altavoz: WHAT IS THIS "EXCELLENT" ground plane ? It needs
only a 5/8wl radial sys' for a 5/8 wl antenna .

>
> 73,
>
> Arliss


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:45 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 22:39:53 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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W8JI Tom wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (A N
> Thompson) writes:
>
> >The taller (1/2- and 5/8-wave) verticals require more
> >extensive grounds than does the 1/4-wave vertical.  The
> >1/4-wave antenna will outperform a 1/2-wave antenna unless
> >an (excellent) ground plane extends out to about 1.5 wave-
> >lengths.  The 5/8-wave antenna requires and even more
> >extensive ground.
> >
> >73,
> >
> >Arliss
>
> As a bit of practical experience, I did broadcast consulting work in the
> 70's. I had occasion to "sneak" various towers on 160 late at night.
>
> The 280-300 ft towers were always great performers within a few hundred
> miles, but stank for 100 mile and longer work. At one site, a 60 ft tall
> inverted L beat the 300 ft tower over and over again outside of a few
> hundred miles.

altavoz: How would you know ? OOhhh thats right , you got signal reports,
right ? ha ha ha   very scientific !

> At a location in a swampy area, a dipole at 350 ft absolutely killed a 280
> ft vertical, yet a 140 ft vertical at my house a few miles came close to
> the high dipole.
>
> These are less than ideal comparisons, and I would never claim them to be
> conclusive,  but they certainly indicate something.

altavoz: They are indicative of your lack of scientific ability.

> I walked away with the same gut feeling Arliss expressed. The low wave
> angle, coupled with lossy soil (even though it was almost 30 mS/m at the
> one site), actually hurts the lower angle skywave signals.
>
> 73 Tom

altavoz: And that proves, therefore that this low angle radiation
OVER SEA WATER must be totally absorbed . NOT !


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:46 1996
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From: "Cajun 'Net Crusier" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 Meter Antenna Advice Needed
Date: 2 Nov 1996 06:42:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Could you suggest the best (most gain and range) antenna for 2 meters? I
would like one that's not a beam one and can be in a fixed place. Would it
not make sense that a 2 meter antenna should not radiate above a few
degrees from the center because they don't bounce off the atmosphere well?

How far must I keep a 2 meter antenna at 35watts away from my house and
people?
Is it safe to put one on top of my house trailer or  in a tree nearby?

Please help.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:46 1996
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From: "Cajun 'Net Crusier" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 Meter Antenna Advice Needed
Date: 2 Nov 1996 06:43:54 GMT
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Please EMAIL responses to me.

Thanks!


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:47 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 23:23:57 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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Harbin Osteen wrote:
>
> >
> > I see many posts "sizeable, substancial....GP for a .5wl antenna.
> >
> > You are wrong . it needs a .5 wl radial system, not a substancial...
> > You dont know what you're talking about on half waves.
> >
> > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
> Hi altavoz:
> I am going to get a 5/8 MaCo antenna for my C.B. (11 meters?).
> I got in on the thread late, but are you saying that ground
> raidials have to only be equal to 1/2 wave in length to get
> a dB gain? The MaCo does not come with raidials, so will it
> work with raidals without messing up the SWR? I think a ground
> plane will help any vertical antenna, but I'm not shure.
> SeeYaa:) Harbin


altavoz: 1/2wl antennas need 1/2wl radials and 5/8wl ant's  need 5/8wl
radials . The radials must be 180 degrees to put the max gain
on the horison . And dont use it over lossy ground cause it will
be totally absorbed ( NOT !! its a little inside joke).


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:48 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 23:35:19 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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Tom,
      I'm intrigued by your comment that most broadcasting stations
abandomed them in the 30's.  To the best of my knowledge the National
Broadcasting Stations (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is still
using them.  I think that the Commercial stations are still using them
too.  Perhaps we are lucky in having a very tightly controlled
allocation of station locations, and far fewer stations than
elsewhere.

     I was closely involved with them 1957-1964, particularly with the
3AR - 3LO pair working at 620 kHz and 770 kHz.  The aerial was a
compromise 5/8 aerial, and there was a very big difference in the feed
point impedance at the two frequencies.  I have the values on file if
anyone is interested.

        The mast was a triangular lattice steel guyed construction, 704 feet
high and about 9 feet per side.  Tke bottom 10 feet ot so tapered to
about one foot diameter and sat on a single tubular porcelain
insulator.  The feed point was about 8 feet from the ground.

        Ground mat was 144 radials a bit longer than hald wave, terminating on
a copper cable, open circuit ring, about 15 feet diameter with a
single lead into the coupling unit.

        We replaced that with a continuous copper sheet about 15 foot square
with all radials bonded directly to it.  That did two things (a)
stabilised the base impedance with changes in soil conductivity over
the seasons, and (b) substantial reduced the near field ground losses.

        We define our service area as the distance from the aerial to the
start of the fading zone, and use transmitters on other frequencies to
cover the remainder of Victoria.

        I have no idea how this applies to HF.  But I thought someone may be
interested.
                                Alan.

>73 Tom

Alan Fowler.
 /  Oz  \ Mail Address: PO Box 272, Balwyn 3103 Vic, AUSTRALIA.
 \_,--.x/ Phone: [phone]  Member, Melbourne PC User Group.
       v  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



altavoz: 5/8 wl antennas work at MF,HF,VHF,UHF .
BUT THEY DONT WORK OVER LOSSY GROUND ( NOT )


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:50 1996
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From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tower Safety
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:41:31 -0500
Lines: 33
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To: FORREST GEHRKE <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, FORREST GEHRKE wrote:
> BB> In light of the recent Texas tragedy, where a 1500-foot commercial
> BB> transmission tower collapsed with the loss of three lives, perhaps t
> BB> subject should be reviewed by tower climbers.  Few details made the
>
> About 20 years ago Life Magazine published a compendium of
> its more famous pictures.  One of them was of a 1500 ft.
> tower on its way down with three fellows clinging to
> the side of it at about 1000 ft.  The camera caught the
> scene when the tower was at 45 degrees.
>
> It was an awful scene and one could only look at that picture
> with horror.
>
> With no recourse for those workers when an accident occurs
> at such heights, shouldn't they be carrying those parachute
> backpacks you see stunt artists use for directed landings?
>
> I have no stomach for climbing a tower.  I have a 90 ft.
> tower and I've climbed it to 50 feet.  When the breeze
> starts moving the trees around me I'm convinced that
> it's me that's waving around and I chicken out every time. ;-)
> //
>  k2bt

That Sir is not chickenning out... It is common sense saying:
I don't feel comfortable up here and I don't belong up here...
Descretion is the better part of valor...
De Tom...
73





From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:53 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 23:46:11 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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altavoz: I know what im talking about , so i made the absolute
statement , and i stand by it . Between .25w and .5w you'll need
a cap to tune and caps are expensive , so why not not just jump
to .6w and a coil does it and the 2nd lobe isnt significant.
What you're not looking at is the pattern (gain). .25w
pattern is trash.

Tom says:
> >> Actually the minor lobe of a 5/8 wl is not insignificant, that's why most
> >> broadcast stations abandoned them by the 30's. On sky wave, the minor lob
e
> >> arrives back on earth and interferes with the desired signal from the mai
n
> >> lobe, and gives rise to severe fading.
> >

altavoz: FALSE . Read

Mike says:
> Dead wrong.  In practice, it DOES work out Tom's way!  Go ask why WOAI
> in San Antonio, for a number of reasons,.....snipped Mikes blitter
> ........because of the story that the Mexican
> crew that cut the grass lost a member on a dare to a stray weed slinger,
> as I was told.  He reached up and touched the base, with his weed slinger,
> on a bet, after which they couldn't ANY of them even NEAR the thing to cut
> the weeds.
> Deep fade momentarily I suppose.
> Old Square Root Jackson, W5VO, so nick named since only the square root of
> his math classes at A&M ever passed when he got on staff here, said that it
> was FAR worse with the metro location up on the building top and with
> the effect exacerbated by the elevated feed point!
> At night WOAI has terrible fade problems and phase distortion here, 175
> miles from San Antonio...

Tom says:
> >> A 5/8 wl antenna ONLY acheives its' gain when over a very very large
> >> groundplane, several wavelengths of near perfect ground. Without the larg
e
> >> perfectly reflecting ground, the 5/8 wl has about the same or slightly
> >> LESS gain than a 1/2 wl with no reflecting ground.

altavoz: FALSE , a .6w ant needs exactly .6 radials(current pk at .35w)
, a .25w requires anything over .1w radials as it's current peak is
at the feedpoint(you only need radials at the current loop)

Tom says:
> >> Any slight matching advantage in matching is offset by these
> >> disadvantages.
> >>
> >> 73 Tom

altavoz: GO BACK TO SCHOOL !


Mike says ( but who cares, he adds nothing tech )
> I am beginning to feel that the only solution to a misplaced antenna
> profile is a frontal lobotomy that can be achieved by shorting the antenna
> input terminals together...  and the only other solution is a bottle in fron
t
> of me for an insulator!
> Mike - W5WQN

Alan Fowler says
Tom,
      I'm intrigued by your comment that most broadcasting stations
abandomed them in the 30's.  To the best of my knowledge the National
Broadcasting Stations (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is still
using them.  I think that the Commercial stations are still using them
too.  Perhaps we are lucky in having a very tightly controlled
allocation of station locations, and far fewer stations than
elsewhere.

     I was closely involved with them 1957-1964, particularly with the
3AR - 3LO pair working at 620 kHz and 770 kHz.  The aerial was a
compromise 5/8 aerial, and there was a very big difference in the feed
point impedance at the two frequencies.  I have the values on file if
anyone is interested.

        The mast was a triangular lattice steel guyed construction, 704 feet
high and about 9 feet per side.  Tke bottom 10 feet ot so tapered to
about one foot diameter and sat on a single tubular porcelain
insulator.  The feed point was about 8 feet from the ground.

        Ground mat was 144 radials a bit longer than hald wave, terminating on
a copper cable, open circuit ring, about 15 feet diameter with a
single lead into the coupling unit.

        We replaced that with a continuous copper sheet about 15 foot square
with all radials bonded directly to it.  That did two things (a)
stabilised the base impedance with changes in soil conductivity over
the seasons, and (b) substantial reduced the near field ground losses.

        We define our service area as the distance from the aerial to the
start of the fading zone, and use transmitters on other frequencies to
cover the remainder of Victoria.

        I have no idea how this applies to HF.  But I thought someone may be
interested.
                                Alan.

>73 Tom

  ,-._|\  Alan Fowler.
 /  Oz  \ Mail Address: PO Box 272, Balwyn 3103 Vic, AUSTRALIA.
 \_,--.x/ Phone: [phone]  Member, Melbourne PC User Group.
       v  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


altavoz: Tom , you could get diseases with that unwashed foot
in your mouth.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:54 1996
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From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 450/coax feed..?
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:50:44 -0500
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
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Hi Tom here....

A friend of mine has a very nice set-up at his QTH...

He has a 75' Rohn 25G tower about 50' from the rear of his shack.
He has mounted a 160M dipole [E/W], 80 meter dipole [N/S] and a
30M dipole mounted [NW\SE]... The 160M antenna is about 72' and
feed with 450 ladder [window-style] wire down to the base of the
tower. This is typical of all his HF antennas... From the Base of
the tower he feeds each antenna with 2 pc. of coax, with only the
center conductor connected. The sheilds are trimmed back and heat
shrinked over. Then ends are "N" connectors going to a Lexan mtg
bracket with a matching "N" connector where the 450 ladder wire is
soldered... A very neat an elaborate setup... He uses Lexan for
standoffs to keep the 450 from flapping in the wind...

The reason for this whole explanation is: He claims by running the
coax from the tower [buried in 3" PVC] to his house, up into his
attic, thru the attic abt 60' more an down into his shack, he got
rid of a lot of RF in the shack {from 450 coming all the way into
his operating position} eliminated a lot of RFI and still maintained
the benefit of having resonant antennas' but can feed them into his
balanced feed antenna tuner, an tune them all over the various bands.
The 160M is resonant on 1900KC with no tuner and 1.3 SWR.... He
feeds it into his tunner and tunes it on all bands like a G5RV....
"Neither end has the shields attached"  His explanation is:" that
the coax is transparent to the rest of the antenna, an the antenna
is being seen as a 450ohm feed dipole..? I asked him why not just
feed it with coax all the way; he just mumbels something about they
just work better [less loss ?] and are true balanced dipoles...

I am putting up a 150' tower abt 160' from the nearest building
[which happens to be my radio room...] So the ultimate question is:
would it be worth my while to duplicate the basic idea coax/450
feed here... Also I have abt 2500' of spool ends of 72-75 ohm
hardline [CATV 7/8"] Could I find any benefit in using it..?
Especially since it was free??? [ I could use it instead of coax?]
Used in the SAME context has 2 coax type of feed....

My main goal is to have resonant antennas' that are as efficient as
possible, with the least loss and minamized RF "hot Spots" in
relationship to family and neighbors... i will be running some
home-built amplifierswith about 1200 - 1500W output at times on
digital... Any thoughts on this???

Tnx for reading this, any help or input will be appreciated...
Later KD4QHH
73








From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:55 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 23:57:50 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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Mandy Wright wrote:
> To obtain a perfect match to a 50 ohm source a capacitor may be added in
> series, at the feed point, to cancel the inductive component when the
> length has been extended to approx. 130 degees, to increase the
> radiation resistance.

> Has anybody got spare copies of the following that they would like to
> lend to Altavoz, I need mine for my business!
> Reference Data for Radio Engineers ITT
> Antenna Engineering Handbook    Jasik
> Antenna Engineering Handbook 2  Johnson and Jasik
> Antennas                        Kraus
> Antenna Theory and Design Volumes 1 and 2 H Paul Williams ( my mentor!)
> Radio Engineering BBC Manual    E K Sandeman
> HF Antennas                     Leslie Moxon         (my other mentor!)
> VHF Radio                       Keller
> Mandy


altavoz: Can you make a coherent connection between the 130 degree
antenna and the text references ? Are you saying that JASIK wants
us to use 130 degree antennas ? I hear laughter in the background.
Now i hear laughter all 'round ha ha ha ha ........


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:56 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 00:22:55 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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W8JI Tom wrote:
>
> hello albatros,
> In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
> <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> I wote
> >> Actually the minor lobe of a 5/8 wl is not insignificant, that's why
> most
> >> broadcast stations abandoned them by the 30's. On sky wave, the minor
> lobe
> >> arrives back on earth and interferes with the desired signal from the
> main
> >> lobe, and gives rise to severe fading.
> >> A 5/8 wl antenna ONLY acheives its' gain when over a very very large
> >> groundplane, several wavelengths of near perfect ground. Without the
> large
> >> perfectly reflecting ground, the 5/8 wl has about the same or slightly
> >> LESS gain than a 1/2 wl with no reflecting ground.
> >> Any slight matching advantage in matching is offset by these
> >> disadvantages.
>
>  And you replied
>
> >altavoz: Read Paul H. Lee page 84 "Am' Rad' Vert' Ant' HB"
> >As he proves you must have a counterpoise for a 1/2w ant.
>
> Of course you do, if the antenna is end fed especially. Without one the
> antenna can NOT even be fed at the end. That is the main mistake of the J
> pole, it uses a matching stub as both counterpoise and matching section,
> and current moves the wrong way.
> So when you say:
> >A J POLE DOESNT WORK ! IT HAS POOR LOW ANGLE RADIATION .
> We agree.
>
> When you say
> >He says " Actualy the 5/8w vert is better than the 1/2
> >vert from the standpoints of low angle radiation and feedpoint
> >impedance..
> We also agree, but NOT for broadcast band use where skywave is present and
> not unless the groundplane extends out many wavelengths. As a matter of
> fact, in the NAB Engineering Handbook this very reason is explianed, and
> shorter verticals are called NON-FADING verticals for this reason.

altavoz: And the NAB Engineering HB couldnt be in error ?
I mean, there's never been a case where an Eng book has been in error,
absolutely positively .....NEVER ! NOT ONCE !
  Minor lobe at 60 degrees ? hhhhmmmmmm . You're saying that 60 degrees
is a good angle to "SKIP" on the ionosphere ?  What do you think the
ARRL would say about 60 degree skip ? On the 3rd hop that would put us
at 300 miles ? ha ha ha ha .......



> Another thing the 5/8 wl antenna does is force or compress radiation at a
> low wave angle where the earth losses absorb signal. That is OK for ground
> wave (because you have to have the signal there anyway) but is bad for
> skywave. As the vertical for HF skywave is made taller than 1/4 wl
> efficiency GOES down unless the antenna is over a large body of saltwater.

alkaselzer says: "....over a largebody of seawater"  Tom , you cant have
it both ways , you said prev' that absorbtion over lossy gnd.....and now
you say "...where earth losses absorb signal"   what do you think sea
water is ?  IT IS LOSSY . IT IS MORE LOSSY THAN DIRT .
Those transmitting on 2182khz ( marine radio ) had better stop ,
cause all your signal is being absorbed.

> You can find that by modeling the antenna on computor, trying the antenna
> in life, or by reading a good book that has sections about earth effects
> like Antennas and Transmission Lines by Dr. Kuecken. I had a 1/2 wl
> vertical on 80 meters and it stunk compared to a 1/4 wl vertical, and I
> tried the same thing on 40 and 160 and they stank. For groundwave, I could
> work many miles, but for skywave even into DX they were the poorest
> antennas I ever used even though they were over large radials.

altavoz: That proves that you cant make it work and others can ,too bad.
 It takes great courage to admit such a failure. Im proud of you.
>
> 73 Tom
>
> PS.  Captain Kangeroo is better about radials than Captain Lee. He needs
> to go back to radial school.

altosax: Stay tuned , it over til it's over .


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:57 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Importance of coax length on HF   A myth?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 96 08:55:34 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <55f2ac$[e-mail]>
References: <54nc7a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55e5id$[e-mail]> <55ejg1$[e-mail]>
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In article <55ejg1$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (J. Fred Riley) wrote:
>[e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
>>How about an antenna which has a 75 ohm feedpoint resistance and no
>>reactance, connected to the rig with a 50 ohm cable? A 50 ohm SWR meter
at
>>the rig will measure 1.5:1, regardless of the length of the coax.
>
>I think you meant to say, "...connected to the rig with 75 ohm  coax."

Nope. Often as I screw up, I managed to say what I meant this time. But the
50 ohm SWR meter would also read 1.5:1 for any length of cable if the cable
were 75 ohms. (Of course the SWR on the cable is 1:1 in this case, not
1.5:1 as it would be if the cable were 50 ohms.)

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (bob puharic)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: New 'N' Connectors OK?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:38:23 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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"Bob Smith" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Are those new N connectors that look like PL259's OK.  I have a few and
>they pretty easy to work with.  But then again the standard ones now seem
>just as easy to use.

>Thanks and 73 de Bob.

N connectors are a pain in the ass. I just spent a few hours at 100'
for the K3ANS contest station replacing the female end of an N on
rg213. the female side had splayed out and became intermittent even
though it was nailed down pretty tight. And they are supposed to be
loose...if you can rotate them thats no problem. but they are a drag
to maintain.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:49:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (bob puharic)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tower Safety
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:42:34 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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[e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote:

>BB> In light of the recent Texas tragedy, where a 1500-foot commercial
>BB> transmission tower collapsed with the loss of three lives, perhaps t
>BB> subject should be reviewed by tower climbers.  Few details made the

although I do quite a bit of tower work for hams, never done a
professional job. i had a chance to stop in at channel 57 in philly a
few months ago. most of the tv/radio stations in the philly area are
on the same hilltop in roxboro. channel 57 has a 1200' tower, and i
was talking to the engineer who was at the tx site. he said that when
the guys come to paint the guy wires, when they run into the
insulators, they just disconnect all their climbing gear and swing
their legs over the insulators, then reconnect. man, that takes some
kind of...well you fill in the blank...



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ron Cole)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 12:16:54 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
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Jay Harmor <[e-mail]> wrote:

>The choice I have to make a choice for a 2m SSB antenna.  The two
>antennas I am looking at are:
>4 ele Quad 9+db gain (Pros.. Shorter turning radius)

>10 ele Yagi  12+db gain (Pros.. Higher gain)

>cost of the two antennas is about the same.

>can any of you fellow hams think of any more pros or cons to help me with
>my choice.


>Thanks

>Jay (KE6GLA)

Jay,
        Consider the Front to back ratio to.  This is not much of a concern on
2m SSB but is a real concern on HF where you don't want to hear whats
behind the antenna.  On 2m I would take the 3 db gain evey time.

FWIW, for 2m SSB I uas a pair of stacked KLM 2M-20LBX at 70' and do a
nice job for me.   On HF I uas a 2 element quad.

Ron
N5HYH




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Markey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: TV Antenna Questions
Date: 2 Nov 96 13:31:43 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
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Davaid, you dont' say if you are attempting to receive signals from a =
distant location or from local stations.  Did you use a 300 ohm or 75 =
ohm combiner?  Either will work, but the 300 ohm stuff is more =
susceptible to weather.  Normally a 75 ohm combiner (just a splitter in =
reverse) has about a 1 - 2 db combining loss.  With strong local =
signals, no big deal.  If you're picking up stuff from 80 miles away, it =
could make a difference.  Are you sure your combiner is rated for the =
frequency bands you're interested in?  Nowadays, you can find =
splitters/combiners that are only rated for cable TV, up to 400 MHz, =
VHF/UHF types rated from 50 MHz to 900 MHz, and L-band types optimized =
for the 950 MHz to 1450 MHz band.   How long is your downlead, and what =
type is it?  Perhaps you should consider a mast mounted amplifier with =
both VHF and UHF inputs.  They come in either 300 ohm or 75 ohm =
versions.  This would eliminate any combining loss and give you some =
gain to overcome your downlead loss.  Typically a separation of 2' is =
adequate when stacking a U on top of a V.  As for the trees, they can =
cause attenuation, but will more likely give you ghosting problems.  You =
can send me an e-mail directly with more info or post it here on the =
reflector.

de Rick, KN3C
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Date: 1 Nov 1996 11:01:03 GMT
From: [e-mail] (David P. Fraleigh)
Subject: Sorry... TV antenna questions

I don't know who else to ask these questions to so forgive me for asking
them here... (I suspect that no one else can better answer them).. =20
I have been trying to improve my TV reception for the past few months =
and
have been fairly successfull..  (mainly due to taller tower)..  I am =
left
with a few questions though..

I have put up two antennas (a UHF and a VHF pointed in two different
directions) and joined them with a combiner into a single lead coming =
down
to my house..  It seems that I am losing signal strength by having
two antennas because with only the VHF antenna connected I get a clearer
picture of those VHF stations.  Could this be happening and what can I =
do
about it?

Is there some specified distance apart that these two antennas should =
be? =20

There are some trees located not far from the antenna in the direction
that the VHF antenna needs to point.  Would anything much be gained by
removing them...?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:02 1996
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From: [e-mail]@smtp-news2.ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax Question
Date: 2 Nov 1996 13:39:12 GMT
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <55fiu0$n3o$[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, fiz <[e-mail]> writes:
>> Mandy Wright wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <555ivs$[e-mail]>, William Cann
>> > <[e-mail]> writes
>> > >I have a roll of coax stamped "CG 92 H/U".  I cant seem to find
>> > >anything about it on material I have on hand.  Does anyone know
>> > >the specs on it?
>> > >ie: impedence, loss/100ft and freq limits?
>> > >
>> > >Thanks
>> > >
>> > You're welcome!
>> > Probably mil.spec. no. UR92
>> > Z=50ohm  OD=0.54"  core=7/0.029"  die= polythene  cap= 30pf/ft
>> > vel.f= 0.666
>> > att(dB/100ft)=11 100mc/s  15.6db 200mc/s  19.2 at 300mc/s  27.5 600mc/s
>> > Not suitable above 1gc/s
>> > Data obtained from UK Home Office, Radio Regulatory Dept Listing of
>> > Cable Losses.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps
>> > Mandy
>
>I do hope you mean Mc/s (as in Mega-) and not mc/s (as in milli-). This
>is getting to be one of my biggest pet peaves. I'm not even sure M is
>the correct prefix for Mega but I do hate to see m used. Anyway, there's
>only a factor of about a kazillion difference :)
>
>ttfn fiz (KG0YG)

   Is that Kz or kz?

              Jim


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]@smtp-news2.ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DESPARATE NEED , HELP
Date: 2 Nov 1996 13:50:35 GMT
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <55fjjb$n3o$[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, altavoz <[e-mail]> writes
:
>Some have asked " Where do i buy
>Paul H. Lee "Amatuer Radio Vertical antenna Handbook "
>
>Can anyone help them out please.
>
>It's the best antenna ever written for $10 ( hell ,
>even at $50 , it would be the best).
>  If you would rather not see your beloved ARRL antenna
>book put to shame , dont buy Pauls book ( he disagrees with
>them !!).
>
>______End of text  from altavoz___________


    Probably nobody could find it. How many times can you find

                           A M A T E U R

    incorrectly spelled in these amateur radio newsgroups?


                                      Jim


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]@smtp-news2.ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi
Date: 2 Nov 1996 14:04:25 GMT
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <55fkd9$n3o$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip129-37-205-114.in.us.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, Jay Harmor <[e-mail]> writes
:
>The choice I have to make a choice for a 2m SSB antenna.  The two
>antennas I am looking at are:
>4 ele Quad 9+db gain (Pros.. Shorter turning radius)
>
>10 ele Yagi  12+db gain (Pros.. Higher gain)
>
>cost of the two antennas is about the same.
>
>can any of you fellow hams think of any more pros or cons to help me with
>my choice.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Jay (KE6GLA)

   Being a Midwesterner, I'd look at construction of the two. Gain is only a
 thought if the antenna is still up. I've done Quads and Yagis. The Yagis seem
 to be more durable. You, being out in California probably don't have to conte
nd
 with ice storms and the like. Although wind loading might be an issue. Think
 about where the antenna is located and the mechanics of having to
 work/replace it. Also, consider your feedline. A slight gain difference in
 antennae is offset by a poor choice of feedline. In another words, don't
 skimp on your feedline, more signal is lost in cheap/wrong feedlines than is
 produced by amplifiers or in slick antenna numbers. Those db numbers are
 often misused in general discussion.

                                       Jim WD9AHF


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:06 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!drn
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 2 Nov 1996 06:38:50 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <55fmdq$[e-mail]>
References: <55d4ut$[e-mail]> <55dfj5$[e-mail]> <55effj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: csm1-50.up.net


  It was said (much deleted)

>all you need
>>to do is see if something with even a modest loss compared to a dipole
>can
>>still make this link easily. That's what those satellites were made
>>for--they have lots EIRP and a fair amount of  gain to pick up
>captured
>>airmen behind enemy lines, or stranded seamen on the high seas. Do you
>>think they use high gain antennas for an uplink?! So why is it a
>surprise

>    This is called "experts" syndrome:  My mind is made up,
>don't confuse me with the facts.  :) :)
>

  That satellite communications was established with the CTHA, I have no
reason to dispute; I wasn't there. That it could be done in the manner
described? Possible, but with no real data concerning the circumstances
I will remain sceptical. That communicatation could be made with a "wet
noodle" under the right circumstances, I and others are fully aware. That
the quoted press release is full of blatant, unsubstantiated speculation
and as it stands, has little bearing on my life experiences, I have no
doubt.

  When the "facts" become public and they are relevant to amateur
radio satellite communication and not gigabuck? commercial or government
enterprises, I will have reason to be a little more charitable. What I have
read so far smacks more of advertising "puffery" than good science. If
that labels me as a "neo luddite", so be it.

                            Pete/wa4hei


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:07 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!midmarsh.demon.co.uk!jaycee
From: John Charles <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: T2FD antenna
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:43:40 +0000
Organization: JayCee's Comms Emporium
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <55dpum$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: midmarsh.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: midmarsh.demon.co.uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.11 <D1ltFcEFnJOr9pZKwN1pLQfY4G>

In article <55dpum$[e-mail]>, Chuck Forsberg
<[e-mail]> writes
>
>My experience suggests the noise reduction properties of the T2FD
>are quite sensitive to the location of the antenna away from
>trees or other objects.  The T2FD seems more resistant to nearby
>QRN than to distant QRN, say from power lines 1/2 mile or farther
>away.

That property may well be of use to me. One of the problems here is a
neighbour's tv which emits very strong radiation from the timebase / eht
generator from 20 to 30MHz I can tell which channel is being watched as
the loud hum I get on all incoming signals varies with the picture
content. I've even picked it up on a few fx above 450MHz! By comparison
I get a very small amount of hash from my own tv.

Best wishes, John
--
John Charles


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:07 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou.com!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: WTB: TenTec 253 AutoTuner
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:49:14 GMT
Lines: 4

Looking for TenTec 253 autotuner

--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news
From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 07:05:08 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55cf92$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-101.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

altavoz wrote:
>
> Q is rate of change of reactance.

Consider a series LCR circuit connected to a voltage generator:

1) At F0 the impedance is R

2) At FHI the current is down 3 dB and XHI = R (XHI Inductive)

3) At FLO the current is down 3 dB and -XLO = R (XLO Capacitive)

4) dX/dF = (XHI - XLO) / (FHI - FLO) = 2 * R / (FHI - FLO)

5) Q = F0 / (FHI - FLO)

Combine 4 and 5  to get

6) Q = (F0 / 2 * R) * (dX/dF)

So if we know R and F0, Q can be found from dX/dF.  This assumes that X
varies linearly, which is only approximate but OK for high Q.

altavoz had the right idea but was a bit sloppy, math-wise.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news
From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 07:08:47 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55cf92$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-101.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

William E. Sabin wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> >
> > Q is rate of change of reactance.
>
> Consider a series LCR circuit connected to a voltage generator:
>
> 1) At F0 the impedance is R
>
> 2) At FHI the current is down 3 dB and XHI = R (XHI Inductive)
>
> 3) At FLO the current is down 3 dB and -XLO = R (XLO Capacitive)
>
> 4) dX/dF = (XHI - XLO) / (FHI - FLO) = 2 * R / (FHI - FLO)
>
> 5) Q = F0 / (FHI - FLO)
>
> Combine 4 and 5  to get
>
> 6) Q = (F0 / 2 * R) * (dX/dF)
>
> So if we know R and F0, Q can be found from dX/dF.  This assumes that X
> varies linearly, which is only approximate but OK for high Q.
>
> altavoz had the right idea but was a bit sloppy, math-wise.
>
> Bill W0IYH

Correction: 6) should be:

6) Q = (F0 / (2 * R)) * (dX/dF)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:10 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!drn
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.swap,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTB: Videocipher II decoder modules
Date: 2 Nov 1996 08:05:47 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <55frgr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 167.114.24.4
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41623 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19901 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30985

I need 120 videocipher II decoder modules, If You have one or more, let me
know,
[e-mail]
Thanks,


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!oronet!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Antenna Advice Needed
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 16:39:54 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <55fti8$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbc888$f9e0fe40$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Cajun 'Net Crusier" <[e-mail]> shared these priceless pearls
of wisdom:

->Could you suggest the best (most gain and range) antenna for 2 meters?

Go see www.rst-engr.com for two cheap and somewhat elegant solutions
(caution, this is an unashamed commercial reply -- your mileage may vary).

{;-)

Jim
Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
Grass Valley CA 95945   |
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!netcom.net.uk!netcom-uk-feed0!news
From: Mike Tatum <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2m/70cm Sat Antennas, which ???
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 16:56:47 +0000
Organization: CybaTek Ltd - We've seen the future and it works!
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.flexnet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)

Hi All,

I'm interested in building a sat station here at home.

Can anyone give me some leads on good antennas/rotors etc to use for
such a station.

I've seen on an RSGB video that it is better to have both vertical and
horizontal polarisation for both bands to stop fading.
The question is do I need 2 antennas for each band, 1 horizontal, 1
vertical or can I use crossed antennas.

Preamps is another item for me to consider, any suggestions on
models/makes etc ??

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and look forward to some
replies!

Mike
G1SYT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Dan Finn)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Subject: Re: Vibroplex web page up...
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 16:57:47 GMT
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <55fuqn$1orc$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip166-72-89-92.nc.us.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.swap:93441 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30956 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19894 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41584 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20689 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117402 rec.radio.amateur.policy:42604 rec.radio.amateur.space:8702 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1188

"Mitch, WA4OSR" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>check it out, and give me your feedback...

My only negative comments are:

1) No pricing information. Why not? When customers go to the trouble
    of finding a website, the pricing should already be there. Why not
    put it there???

2) Why not allow customers to purchase from the website? Many people
are not as hung up on security as others. Besides, netscape 3.0 is
secure enough for most people.

Lot's of postives. Nice products (the 'best' of course!)

73

KR4AJ



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:14 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news-2.csn.net!usenet
From: "Stan Huntting" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Need advice on rotator R&R
Date: 2 Nov 1996 17:04:52 GMT
Organization: SRHuntting. Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <01bbc8df$f7963860$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.133.96.4
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30982 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1194 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41619 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117417

I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the BIG winds blow.

Last week's big wind got my rotator - it behaves as
though a lot of teeth are missing from the final drive
gear. HyGain offers great support, but I think that
starts AFTER I get the rotator off the tower. Now, I
need help with the task of removing it for repair.


The rotator is a HyGain HDR-300 on a Rohn 55G tower.
It mounts to the bottom of a mounting plate, which is
about 6' below the thrust bearing. Assuming the hex set
screws for the clamp (above the mounting plate) will
release, dropping the rotator out should be as simple
as removing the four bolts which attach it to the
mounting plate. The 55G is big enough to get the
rotator in and out through the side of the tower.


My big concern is this: even though the weight of the
2-1/2" diam mast and antenna (combined weight of about
250 lb.., mostly ABOVE the thrust bearing) is born by
the thrust bearing, I think the rotator is essential
for lateral stability of the mast - I don't think the
thrust bearing can maintain the vertical alignment of
the mast by itself. Am I right? Is there a standard way
of stabilizing the lower end of the mast while the
rotator is removed and repaired (likely to be many
weeks)? I'd really rather not remove and reinstall the
antenna and mast.


Also, if the hex set screws that fix the mast clamp
to the rotator output shaft are really frozen, what are
the methods (in order of increasing desperation) for
dealing with them - liquid wrench, EZ-out?


Thanks for suggestions.

Stan



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!tybalt.admin.kth.se!celsiustech.se!usenet
From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Antenna Advice Needed
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:06:09 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbc888$f9e0fe40$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0213.celsiustech.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I)
To: Cajun 'Net Crusier <[e-mail]>

Cajun 'Net Crusier wrote:
>
> Could you suggest the best (most gain and range) antenna for 2 meters? I
> would like one that's not a beam one and can be in a fixed place.

Well first you need to get an antenna handbook and read a bit about
antenna theory.
You can not get gain if you not focus the radiation (beam) so to get
gain you need a kind of dirictional antenna

>Would it
> not make sense that a 2 meter antenna should not radiate above a few
> degrees from the center because they don't bounce off the atmosphere well?

If I understand what you mean you are right, no need to have high
radiation angle, then you can get a stacked vertical

> How far must I keep a 2 meter antenna at 35watts away from my house and
> people?

So little  power wouln't harm anything.

 Is it safe to put one on top of my house trailer  (YES) or  in a tree
nearby (YES)?
>
> Please help.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: *cheap* Yagi 432 MHZ Antenna
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 17:27:14 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <327b838d.8248927@204.127.3.4>
Reply-To: 127.0.0.10
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.70.37.130
X-No-Archive: Yes

I want to build a 432 mhz yagi, I found this web page on how to build
it, but I need an overall picture on what it looks like, a diagram or
schematic would be nice...TIA
http://www.phoenix.net/USERS/biekert/vjb.html


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!sn.no!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!tybalt.admin.kth.se!celsiustech.se!usenet
From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 75 ohm coax
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:33:08 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0208.celsiustech.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I)
To: Ginsberg Family <[e-mail]>

Ginsberg Family wrote:
>
> Hi guys, Can any one offer advice on using 75 ohm hardline that I can get at
> a super price for 50 ohm ham radio equipment.  I will need to make or by
> transformers for the ends to get the 50 ohm impedence, What can I exspect on
> losses  any help appreciated. Ed KE6BNL
> --
> 1╛

Forget it, it will only cause you trouble
SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:17 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!news01.aud.alcatel.com!aur.alcatel.com!concert!rti!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Joe Simpson)
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Joe's Bar and Grill
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 18:46:11 GMT
Lines: 17
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30968 triangle.radio:2175

David Cooley <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Well,
>While looking for something else, I ran across the plans for my full
>wave vertical antenna... it can be used for any band, as equations are
>given for all dimensions... it was published in 73 magazine, August,
>1989.  According to the article, it performs (Gain and radiation wise) "
>as good or better than a commercial 5/8 wave vertical".
>If anyone is interested, next week when I get back to work I can fax
>copies, or copy and mail out hard copy.

Isn't the radiation pattern for a full-wave vertical mostly in the
general direction of "up?"

  -joe  KD4LLV




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!coopnews.coop.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Polarization
Date: 2 Nov 1996 20:51:05 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 17
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References: <54oa1j$[e-mail]>
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CHARLES J. MICHAELS ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Bob Bruhns said :
: The inverted V seems to put out horizontal polarization broadside, and
: vertical polarization off the ends.
:
: Bob, So does a simple horizontal dipole
: Charlie, W7XC

  Simulations indicate that a turnstile of two inverted-Vs with about
a 90 degree apex angle and about 3/8 wavelength (apex) above ground
produces approximately equal H and V from low angles to 90 degrees
(within a few dB).  The uniformity of H and V at lower angles seems
better with a turnstile of high apex angle inverted Vs than it is
with a turnstile of straight dipoles at the same height.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:20 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!coopnews.coop.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: David Cooley <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 15:24:43 -0600
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Joe Simpson wrote:
>
> David Cooley <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
> Isn't the radiation pattern for a full-wave vertical mostly in the
> general direction of "up?"

According to the article it's not, and it seems to perform remarkably
well!
I'm using a radioshack HTX-202 for my radio, and I have no problem with
simplex QSO's at 20-25 miles, and I can cleanly hit repeaters that are
25-30 miles out.

Later,
DAve


--
========================================================================
David Cooley                AKA N5XMT                 [e-mail]
http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 2 Nov 1996 23:20:35 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 30
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References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Chip N1IR [Fractenna ([e-mail])] wrote:
: There still seems to be a few around who want some clarification on
: radiation from accelerating charges. Any comments on how the electron
: knows its accelerating because  of a  changing direction as opposed to
: accelerating because of an applied emf (on a straight line)?
: I don't believe the derivative of the vector valued function can
: distinguish the nature of the acceleration.

  The real nitty-gritty of electromagnetic radiation remains somewhat
above my head, but I think one must distinguish between
charged-particle activity on atomic scales, charged-particle action on
a larger physical scale (antenna currents, etc), charged-particle
action that results in a fixed magnetic field, and charged-particle
action that results in an oscillating magnetic field.

  Certainly, electrons and/or holes rotating around a conductive loop
produce a magnetic field.  In rotating around the loop, which for
simplicity I specify as a circle, they definitely accelerate toward
the center, always at right angles to their motion.  Yet, once
established, the resulting constant magnetic field does not absorb or
release energy unless it changes in amplitude or orientation.

  But, a _varying_ magnetic field CAN radiate energy.  So, it is not
simple charge motion that radiates energy, nor is it the first
derivative of charge motion (acceleration).  I think it is more
accurate to say that EM radiation begins with the second derivative,
the variation of acceleration of charge motion.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Date: 2 Nov 1996 23:40:54 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
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Joe Simpson , KD4LLV ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Isn't the radiation pattern for a full-wave vertical mostly in the
: general direction of "up?"

  No.  Sometimes called two half-waves in phase, a full-wave dipole
is electrically similar to a half-wave vertical above a ground plane.
Actually, maximum gain perpendicular to a straight wire dipole would
occur at a length of 5/4 wavelength, which is electrically similar to
a 5/8 wavelength vertical above a ground plane.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: 2 Nov 1996 23:52:08 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <55gmr8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55gm66$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30999 triangle.radio:2180

  In fact, with proper feeds and/or proper loading, an antenna can be
any length, with longer lengths capable of more gain.  Depending on
the particular design, gain can be perpendicular to the length of the
antenna, or at just about any desired angle from the wire except
directly off the ends.  All sorts of vertical patterns are possible.

  Co-linear verticals are the standard in wide-area VHF and UHF
communications, and they are typically many wavelengths in height.
With proper phasing, this results in sharp vertical directivity and
high gain.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!crusty.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!produnl2
From: [e-mail] (DAVID P. LOEWEN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: Jerrold UHF Television Antenna
Date: 3 Nov 1996 00:52:20 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <55gqc4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kelly.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


For Sale:

Jerrold top-of-the-line UHF-only
Television Antenna.  Ch. 14-83.
Multi-element Yagi design.
Top-rated brand by Consumer Reports.
2.5 yrs old - very good condition.
Bought from MATV dealer for over $100,
will sell for $45 + shipping.
E-mail if interested.

David P. Loewen
Salem, Or  USA
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:25 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: First antenna, what to expect?
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:29:01 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <BWankRAdV$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, steve perron
<[e-mail]> writes
>       Now that I just got my license, I have been thinkering with
>what kind of antenna to put.  My problem, is lack of space.  My
Snip!
>Steve Perron VO1SLP
For space saving antennas you cann't beat HF Antennas for All Locations
by LA Moxon G6XN
This guy knows what he's talking about, he is active on HF, and before
he retired was a research scientist at the Admiralty.
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Sorry... TV antenna questions
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:42:40 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 46
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3G5qQVAQi$[e-mail]>
References: <55cl9f$[e-mail]>
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In article <55cl9f$[e-mail]>, "David P. Fraleigh"
<[e-mail]> writes
>I don't know who else to ask these questions to so forgive me for asking
>them here... (I suspect that no one else can better answer them)..
>I have been trying to improve my TV reception for the past few months and
>have been fairly successfull..  (mainly due to taller tower)..  I am left
>with a few questions though..
>
>I have put up two antennas (a UHF and a VHF pointed in two different
>directions) and joined them with a combiner into a single lead coming down
>to my house..  It seems that I am losing signal strength by having
>two antennas because with only the VHF antenna connected I get a clearer
>picture of those VHF stations.  Could this be happening and what can I do
>about it?
>
Resistive combiners have 6 dB insertion loss, on both bands.  Use a
diplexer as this is a combination of high and low pass filters and will
only have about 1/2dB loss on Vhf and 1dB on UHF.  Use distibution grade
low loss cable,

>Is there some specified distance apart that these two antennas should be?
>
 To avoid cross coupling and pattern distortion the minimum vertical
separation distance is 1/2 wavelength and the minimum horizontal
separation is 1 wavelength, at the lowest operating frequency.
However as they are pointing in different directions mount them back to
back at the same level, ensuring the reflectors cannot touch.

>There are some trees located not far from the antenna in the direction
>that the VHF antenna needs to point.  Would anything much be gained by
>removing them...?
>
Wet trees will have minimal effect on VHF, however on UHF some
absorbtion will take place.
>Thanks for any advice..
I can recommend  Long Distance TV Reception by Roger Bunny published by
Babani (he is a practising engineer in the UK and writes tech articles
for TV Servicing Mag.
Hope this helps
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need longwire design info
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:44:31 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <12SqsbA$j$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-symposium.demon.co.uk
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In article <[e-mail]>, Dan Kruger
<[e-mail]> writes
>I need some input on longwire antennas: I'd like to put one up for
>shortwave listening this winter. I have about 3/4 of an acre with many 150

See Edmund A Laport  Radio Antenna Engineering.
Hope this helps
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 75 ohm coax
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:53:45 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <7W3p0eAps$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-symposium.demon.co.uk
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In article <[e-mail]>, Ginsberg Family
<[e-mail]> writes
>Hi guys, Can any one offer advice on using 75 ohm hardline that I can get at
>a super price for 50 ohm ham radio equipment.  I will need to make or by
>transformers for the ends to get the 50 ohm impedence, What can I exspect on
>losses  any help appreciated. Ed KE6BNL
No problem , transformers are unnecessary.  Use exact multiples of 1/2
wavelength and the cable impedance becomes irrelevant.

To find the velocity factor make a 1/4 wave stub, connect to T-piece,
feed one port with low power source at required freq, connect stub to
second port, and third port to scope or VTVM.  Cut cable slightly longer
than you think necessary and use drawing pin to short inner to outer,
starting at the far end and progressing back toward T-piece.  Look for a
peak.  Cut off cable fractionally longer than length needed to obtain
peak.  Now snip off an inch at a time to obtain a sharp dip (an
opencircuit 1/4 wave is a short circuit a tits opposite end).  You now
know the length required for a 1/4 wave so use even multiples of that
length to feed your antenna.

Hope this helps.
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:29 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!the-symposium.demon.co.uk!Mandy
From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 02:47:41 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <Dp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
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Snip
>altavoz ( the magnificent,all powerful, all knowing, and all that other
>bullshit....)
>
I enjoy the discussions on the group, but in future I shall only be
replying to the "bird-brain of Alcatraz" when I'm in need of some light
entertainment.  ;-)

Snip
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband Tim who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.rio.com!news
From: "Monte Olsen" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best HF Quad
Date: 3 Nov 1996 02:55:02 GMT
Organization: Northwest Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <01bbc932$bf96cee0$b68260ce@molsen>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p82.t0.rio.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Howdy,

I'm wondering if you guys have any ideas about who makes the best HF Quad
and vertical antennas. Are there any good sources if you want to build your
own quads or verticals?

Thanks,

Monte Olsen
N7FFO



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:31 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!ent-img.com!wb6hqk!bart
From: [e-mail] (Bart Rowlett)
Subject: Re: How to Build A Rhombic?
Organization: wb6hqk
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <555csc$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55703i$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 05:01:55 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <55703i$[e-mail]>,  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dick Hughes) writes:
>>On 29 Oct 1996 16:54:36 GMT, [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>>>In <554ff0$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>
>>>>The real advantage of a Rhombic is simple construction and bandwidth, not
>>>>gain. You can get more gain in much less space with many antennas,
>>>>including the smaller curtains used at VOA.
>>>
>>>Which is EXACTLY why the VOA supplanted them with the curtains.  I wish
>>>all our government's decisions were that well made.
>>>
>>Yes, but there was something really satisfying about the rhombics used
>>at W6AM when they burned holes through the ether.  I think they had
>>something like 8 wave-lengths per leg.  When he hit the switch back in
>>the AM days, you had to have everything nailed down in your shack.

When in high school (69-73) I used to perform most of the maintaince on the
W6AM rhombics.  By that time the antenna farm was down to nine rhombics and
a high dipole.  If I recall correctly, most of the rhombics had 946 foot legs
and were at an elevation of 149 feet to stay under FAA concerns.  Don was
quite insistant that the leg lengths be symmetrical to a fraction of an inch!
All 18 possible directions could be switched by a single multipole selector
switch which selected the appropiate antenna and termination.  All unused
antennas were terminated on at least one end when not selected.

Memories....

bart   wb6hqk




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!atkes
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 3 Nov 1996 05:34:34 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <55hata$[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: general5.asu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Bob Bruhns ([e-mail]) wrote:
>Chip N1IR [Fractenna ([e-mail])] wrote:
>: There still seems to be a few around who want some clarification on
>: radiation from accelerating charges. Any comments on how the electron
>: knows its accelerating because  of a  changing direction as opposed to
>: accelerating because of an applied emf (on a straight line)?
>: I don't believe the derivative of the vector valued function can
>: distinguish the nature of the acceleration.
>
>  The real nitty-gritty of electromagnetic radiation remains somewhat
>above my head, but I think one must distinguish between
>charged-particle activity on atomic scales, charged-particle action on
>a larger physical scale (antenna currents, etc), charged-particle
>action that results in a fixed magnetic field, and charged-particle
>action that results in an oscillating magnetic field.
>
>  Certainly, electrons and/or holes rotating around a conductive loop
>produce a magnetic field.  In rotating around the loop, which for
>simplicity I specify as a circle, they definitely accelerate toward
>the center, always at right angles to their motion.  Yet, once
>established, the resulting constant magnetic field does not absorb or
>release energy unless it changes in amplitude or orientation.
>
>  But, a _varying_ magnetic field CAN radiate energy.  So, it is not
>simple charge motion that radiates energy, nor is it the first
>derivative of charge motion (acceleration).  I think it is more
>accurate to say that EM radiation begins with the second derivative,
>the variation of acceleration of charge motion.

You don't have to distinguish these cases as long as you calculate
all the fields from all the charges, and add them up before
calculating the power radiated. Just as you can't calculate the
power radiated from a yagi antenna by adding the power that
each element would radiate if the others weren't there, you can't
calculate the power radiated by any other group of charges by
adding the power radiated by each charge alone if the others
weren't there.

A single accelerating charge radiates. The formula (here in cgs units)
for the power radiated was derived nearly a 100 years ago (1898)
by Lienard:

P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt))

where e is the electric charge, Gamma = 1/sqrt(1-Beta^2),
Beta = particle veloctiy/speed of light. Beta is a vector and
x is the cross product. So dBeta/dt is the acceleration divided
by c. You can see that the power radiated does depend on the direction
of the acceleration relative to the velocity.

However, if you have a large number of electrons moving uniformly in a
circle, and therefore accelerating you find that the radiation fields
cancel as the number of electrons gets large (with a few additional
assumptions that limit the density fluctuations), even if they are
moving at relativistic velocities. This is a standard problem given in
E+M courses.  See for example J.D. Jackson, Classical Electrodynamics,
1975, problem 14.13. The Lienard result is obtained by calculating the
fields from a single charge and calculating the radiation from those
fields. The result of no radiation from a large number of circulating
charges comes from calculating the fields from all the charges, adding
them, and then calculating the power from that total field. In this
last case you just get the usual field from a dc current going around a
loop.

73 Kevin [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Henry Knoll)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Radiation Resistance
Date: 3 Nov 96 05:40:13 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: Henry Knoll <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

11/02/96

In reading some of the threads which mention radiation resistance
of an antenna, I gather the following:

Radiation resistance is not the same as feed point resistance.

Average Joe Ham has no way to measure radiation resistance of an
antenna, and even professionals can only measure antennas of
small size.  Is this correct?  If not, how can I measure the radiation
resistance of my TH-7?

What is the proceedure for measuring the radiation resistance of an
antenna, step by step for us dummies?

It seems that if I know the radiation resistance of the antenna, I
can calculate the efficiency--Yes?

73   Henry  WA0GOZ






From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:34 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!xara.net!emerald.xara.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!visi.com!news.minn.net!jhill
From: [e-mail] (John Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 96 06:09:37 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Dept.
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <55hdbk$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-96.minn.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

Help me out here. I thought I understood feeding loops,
but this scenario has me confounded. Imagine this setup:

A 40M loop consisting of a perfect square suspended vertically
from a 55 ft. tower, standing on its corner (diamond-like). Points
up, down, left and right. Feedpoint is the left corner. Coax runs
straight in to the tower, then down to a multiple antenna switch
at the base, then through buried coax to the shack.
             .|.
       .      |        .
    .         |          .
  .           |            .
o------------|              .
   .          |            .
      .       |          .
        .     |        .
             .|.
 -------------------------

1) First attempt to feed. 1:1 current balun wound with 50 ohm
   coax through 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1,
   resistance 50 ohm read at the base of the tower with an MFJ
   antenna analyzer. I know this is not a precision instrument,
   but I've used it in past experiments with antennas, and it
   works fairly well.

2) Second attempt to feed. Same current balun to 1/4 wave RG-11,
   to 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1, resistance
   50 ohm read at base of tower.

3) Third attempt to feed. New current balun wound with 1/4 wave
   of RG-59 to 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1,
   resistance 100 ohm read at base of tower.

Arrgh!

What am I doing wrong? It listens very well on low angle incoming
signals. I failed to mention that the 2:1 SWR was the lowest I
could get and it fell pretty much at the frequency I expected
(7.005) using the conventional 1005/f formula. I have put up
delta loops off of this tower before, apex up, bottom about 8 ft.
off of the ground and fed them 1/4 wave down from the apex using
the 1:1 current balun and same run of 50 ohm coax to the tower and
down with a perfect 1:1 SWR, resistance 50 ohm before. I just wanted
to try a different setup.

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance...John, NJ0M


"take the canalone, leave the gun"


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:35 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!odin.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!utnetw!news
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Looking for loop
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 06:21:29 GMT
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Lines: 4

Does anyone know if Radio West still sells a MW Ferrite loop
antenna-or where I can find one.  Where is the best price for a
ANC-4?  Thanks.
                   Richard KF2V, Toledo, Ohio


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:36 1996
From: [e-mail] (Dr. Gar Won Ko)
Subject: FS: Unadilla W2DU HF Balun
Date: 2 Nov 96 22:54:20 -0800
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 3

I have for sale at $18.00
Buyer pays for shipping and handling chgs.
Reply to: [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:37 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.genuity.net!news.lafn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (James Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: ELECTRONICS TIMES publisher is sick?
Date: 3 Nov 1996 09:00:20 GMT
Organization: Metropolitan Amateur Repeaters' System
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <55hmv4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.13.26
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:117464 rec.radio.amateur.policy:42647 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31017 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19912 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1199 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41688 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20718 rec.radio.amateur.space:8711

I got my ham license through a classroom training hosted by an open
446.650 repeater's founder KJ6TQ late 1993 at Burbank Fire Dept.
training center in Calif.  Almost a year ago KM6NP close repeater
system pop up in the same pair who claimed to be coordinated but
has been trying to conquer the pair to shutdown the KJ6TQ repeater.

Mike Mercado or KM6NP, who publishes the Electronics Times, even
installed transmitter just for the purpose of jamming KJ6TQ
operations and periodically broadcast warning to KJ6TQ repeater's
users.

Ham radio operators pride themselves in being polite.  Yeah right!
I can't believe this person whom I presumed smart is SICK.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:38 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.genuity.net!news.lafn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (James Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ELECTRONICS TIMES publisher is sick!
Date: 3 Nov 1996 09:18:28 GMT
Organization: Metropolitan Amateur Repeaters' System
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <55ho14$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.13.9
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (16bit)

I got my ham license through a classroom training hosted by an open
446.650 repeater's founder KJ6TQ late 1993 at Burbank Fire Dept.
training center in Calif.  Almost a year ago KM6NP close repeater
system pop up in the same pair who claimed to be coordinated but
has been trying to conquer the pair to shutdown the KJ6TQ repeater.

Mike Mercado or KM6NP, who publishes the Electronics Times, even
installed transmitter just for the purpose of jamming KJ6TQ
operations and periodically broadcast warning to KJ6TQ repeater's
users.

Ham radio operators pride themselves in being polite.  Yeah right!
I can't believe this person whom I considered smart is that SICK.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:39 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!backup.mnsi.net!clayton
From: [e-mail] (Arnold DeRoy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 08:36:59 -0500
Organization: http://www.mnsi.net (Managed Network Systems)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <7/[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn123-59.win.mnsi.net
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31063 triangle.radio:2186

 Can you place me on the list also?

Thanks,

/****************************************************************/
/*                                                              */
/*                    [e-mail]                           */
/*                                                              */
/****************************************************************/


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:40 1996
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From: "Matthew A. Erickson" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radiation Resistance
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 07:55:29 -0800
Organization: The-Q
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U)

Henry Knoll wrote:
>
> 11/02/96
>
> In reading some of the threads which mention radiation resistance
> of an antenna, I gather the following:
>
> Radiation resistance is not the same as feed point resistance.
>
> Average Joe Ham has no way to measure radiation resistance of an
> antenna, and even professionals can only measure antennas of
> small size.  Is this correct?  If not, how can I measure the radiation
> resistance of my TH-7?
>
> What is the proceedure for measuring the radiation resistance of an
> antenna, step by step for us dummies?
>
> It seems that if I know the radiation resistance of the antenna, I
> can calculate the efficiency--Yes?
>
> 73   Henry  WA0GOZ
What would be the point of it ? What could you do about it ? Don't even
worry about it, its a waste of time to bother.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:41 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: "Jack" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need help on mobile antennas
Date: 3 Nov 1996 15:55:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <01bbc99f$5a6d0da0$LocalHost@NETCOM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: prv-ri6-26.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Nov 03  9:55:41 AM CST 1996
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

From: Jack <[e-mail]>
> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
> Subject: Need help on mobile antennas
> Date: Monday, January 01, 1601
>
> Has anyone been hf mobiling for a while and been experimenting with
> different antennas systems?Need your input for what works best for
you.Also
> since I just bought the IC706 need this antenna to include 6mtrs. Thanks
> and 73
> Jack/N1JAT
>



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!carson.u.washington.edu!jtyoung
From: "John T. Young" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 75meter DX antenna-60' vertical vs inverted V?
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 08:02:14 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Your collective wisdom please on the following situation:
I am interested in long haul dx ing in the dx window on 75 meters. At
present, I've got a birch tree between my house and my neighbors' which is
about 60 feet tall. I have an inverted V trap dipole for 40 & 75 with its
apex in this tree at 60'. The ends of this 105' trap dipole are at about
40', (higher than the houses). The houses are 20' apart; the birch tree is
right between them. This antenna works great into Asia from my Seattle QTH
but the noise level on 75m is consistently S7 or louder, making working
into Europe, for example, almost impossible. By the way, it is broadsided
towards Europe, so it should "get out" in that direction, if I could only
hear the dx. I live in the city limits (although not downtown), so I
expect high noise to some extent. I've tried dsp filters, etc. to no
avail.
    I am well aware of the vertical antenna's reputation on low bands for
dx work. I'm wondering if a 60' +/- wire vertical groundplane would
improve my situation? Will there be more noise than an inverted V? Will
the adjacent houses, only 10' away, eliminate any gains? I can only put
ground radials on my property, not my neighbors, making for only a half
circle (loosely speaking, since my house is so close) of radials. How much
will this impact the performance? Is it worth tearing down the inverted V
which is above the houses, to try a vertical groundplane? Many thanks for
your thoughts. Best 73's, de John, KI7JB.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:45 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 3 Nov 1996 11:03:32 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55ifok$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

Most texts state that, when a 1/2-wave dipole is excited at Fr, RF current
is maximum and most constant across the central potion of the radiator.
By the same token, RF voltage is highest and most constant at the
ends--and shifts in value most rapidly across the central portion of the
radiator.

If the EM wavefront is induced by charge acceleration, could someone
explain for me--in simple terms (to humor my simple mind)--what the
relationship is between the rapid RF voltage shift that occurs at the
antenna's center, and the formation of the EM field?  Also, is this
relationship direct and causal, or merely indirect and coincidental in
nature?

Thanks in advance--

Rick -- K1BQT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:46 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Gerald Schmitt )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi
Date: 3 Nov 1996 16:16:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55ighg$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfe-nm3-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Nov 03 10:16:48 AM CST 1996

In <[e-mail]> Jay Harmor <[e-mail]>
writes:
>
>The choice I have to make a choice for a 2m SSB antenna.  The two
>antennas I am looking at are:
>4 ele Quad 9+db gain (Pros.. Shorter turning radius)
>
>10 ele Yagi  12+db gain (Pros.. Higher gain)
>
>cost of the two antennas is about the same.
>
>can any of you fellow hams think of any more pros or cons to help me
with
>my choice.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Jay (KE6GLA)


Wind loading and weather damage. Most of the folks I know who have
quads spend a great deal of their time taking them down to repair them.
But if you're stuck with a small turning radius you get more bang per
foot of boom length with a quad.

                        Jerry


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:47 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-16.sprintlink.net!server2.codetel.net.do!usenet
From: "Juan Flores" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HI8HF
Date: 3 Nov 1996 16:40:05 GMT
Organization: Warranty Direct, Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <01bbca34$674b0320$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: asc185.codetel.net.do
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Would somebody please tell me if the callsign HI8HF has already been
updated in the international Callbook.

Thank you.

Juan Flores
[e-mail]





From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (harold)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: GAP  TITAN
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:41:26 GMT
Organization: Enterprise PLC - Internet Services
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <55ii4u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp73.enterprise.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!

I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!

Any reply would be greatly appreciated.


Many thanks,

Harold
-----------------------



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:49 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!stsci.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Phil Hodge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 3 Nov 1996 17:48:46 GMT
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <55iltu$[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]> <55hata$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bowline.stsci.edu

Kevin [e-mail] wrote:

> A single accelerating charge radiates. The formula (here in cgs units)
> for the power radiated was derived nearly a 100 years ago (1898)
> by Lienard:
>
> P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt))
>
> where e is the electric charge, Gamma = 1/sqrt(1-Beta^2),
> Beta = particle veloctiy/speed of light. Beta is a vector and
> x is the cross product. So dBeta/dt is the acceleration divided
> by c. You can see that the power radiated does depend on the direction
> of the acceleration relative to the velocity.

For nonrelativistic speeds, however, the expression for instantaneous
total radiated power reduces to:

        P = 2/3 * e^2 * |dV/dt|^2 / c^3

where |dV/dt| is the magnitude of the acceleration, and c is the speed
of light.  In this case, the direction of the acceleration is irrelevant.
This is equation 14.22 in Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics.

                                                Phil


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:50 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop
From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 3 Nov 1996 19:25:27 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <55irj7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


        There seems to be some confusion of language in this string.
        First we must differentiate between a quarter wave antenna
that is a full quarter wave length long, and one which is shortened to
produce a purely resistive feed-point impedance.  An infinitely thin
quarter-wave length antenna has a feedpoint impedance of about
36.6 + j 22.5.  Finite thickness antennas have somewhat lower
values.  They are customarily made somewhat shorter than a quarter
wave length to make the input impedance purely resistive.  This
might then be called more properly a "resonant quarterwave".  At
greater lengths the feedpoint has an inductive reactance and at
shorter lengths a capacitive reactance.
        A resonant quarter wave vertical over a good ground or
ground plane system usually has feedpoint impedance lower than
the commonly used 50 ohm coax.
        One way to transform the feedpoint impedance up to 50
ohms is to use an Lnet between it and the coax.  One such L net
might consist of a series inductor between the antenna feedpoint and
the coax and a shunt capacitor across the coax.  Another might
consist of a series capacitor between the antenna feedpoint and the
coax and a shunt inductor across the coax.
        The series element in these L nets is usually a very small
reactance.  The antenna may be adjusted in length to make its
feedpoint equal to the series reactance required by the L net.
        Thus, only the shunt reactance remains and the system is
resonant.
        Sometimes a series element (which may be a capacitor or
and inductor) is used to permit adjustment of the antenna resonant
frequency as the reactive component of most antennas changes
much more with frequency than the resistive component.
        The shunt element is NOT a loading device, it is an
impedance transforming device.  Putting it across the coax does
indeed change the resonant frequency somewhat, however this is
simply the antenna acting to produce the missing series element.  I
call this element of the matching L net, a "virtual component"
acquired in bringing the antenna to resonance.
        With a substantial lengthening of a "quarter wave" antenna
the R component can be brought to 50 ohms and the inductive
reactance acquired can be canceled by a series capacitive reactance.
In this case, the series element is primarily for purpose of adjusting
resonant frequency of the system.
        A "matching" element is primarily dependent on the
impedance of the feed line selected.  A "resonating" element is
primarily dependent on the antenna selected.
Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:51 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 15:14:16 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 29
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55iueo$[e-mail]>
References: <55fmdq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <55fmdq$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:

>  When the "facts" become public and they are relevant to amateur
>radio satellite communication and not gigabuck? commercial or government
>enterprises, I will have reason to be a little more charitable. What I
have
>read so far smacks more of advertising "puffery" than good science. If
>that labels me as a "neo luddite", so be it.
>
>                            Pete/wa4hei
>
>

Pete.

This antenna isn't efficient, unless Maxwell, Faraday, and the rest are
all wet. It, like the small fractal, is just an inefficient way to "load"
an antenna.

Like the DDRR and the cross field antenna, there will be a few people that
swear they work. They might even invent cases where the claim results.

But the result will be something as effective at communicating as a copper
bracelet is at warding off the effects of arthritis, or astrology is at
predicting our lives.

Vamboo rules.

Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:52 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Marc Illsley Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi
Date: 03 Nov 1996 20:39:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfimic.fc.hp.com
In-reply-to: Jay Harmor's message of Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:52:12 -0800

>>>>> "Jay" == Jay Harmor <[e-mail]> writes:
In article <[e-mail]> Jay Harmor <[e-mail]>
 writes:

    Jay> The choice I have to make a choice for a 2m SSB antenna.  The two
    Jay> antennas I am looking at are: 4 ele Quad 9+db gain (Pros.. Shorter
    Jay> turning radius)
    Jay> 10 ele Yagi 12+db gain (Pros.. Higher gain)
    Jay> cost of the two antennas is about the same.

    Jay> Can any of you fellow hams think of any more pros or cons to help me
    Jay> with my choice.

Jay,

Quad Pros: Better side lobe rejection, better performance nearer the ground
(less loss due to ground effects), better bandwidth than a Yagi of the same
gain, no matching network required.  I think the quad may have a better front
to back ratio than the Yagi of the same gain, but I am a little foggy on that
one.

Yagi Pros: Plumber's delight construction (all elements grounded).


You can easily build a 4 element 2m quad for less than $20 using 2x2s from the
local lumber yard and a roll of #8 or #10 Aluminum ground wire.  The only
tools you need are a saw (to cut the 2x2s to length, which you could lso have
done at the lumber yard if you do not have a saw), a wire cutter (to cut the
Aluminum ground wire, but you could certainly use a stout knife), a drill to
make holes in the wood to pass the Aluminum wire through, and a screwdriver
(plus some wood screws).  A pair of pliers would be useful as well.  The ARRL
Antenna handbook has an excellent set of plans.  I am building the ARRL
Antenna handbook's 2m 4 element quad for less than $7.00 in my work shop this
weekend.  Other 2m quad plans abound on the net.  You can make the quad longer
and add more elements to get up to the 12+dB of gain goal.

--
Marc Illsley Clarke, [e-mail], KB0YDL, KB0YDL@N0MPI.#NECO.CO.USA.NOAM
4857 North Sheridan Avenue, Loveland, Colorado 80538-1767 USA
(Representing solely myself, I am emphatically NOT a representative of
any employer, club, group, church, league, organization, or government!)




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:53 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news1.good.net!news.good.net!news.izzy.net!aanews.merit.net!monroe.lib.mi.us!news
From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: First antenna, what to expect?
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 20:39:31 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm159-00.dialip.mich.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
To: steve perron <[e-mail]>

>Steve Perron VO1SLP  lack of space.

Congratulaltions on your new "ticket."

I have an inverted V parallel dipole for 40 and 20 that fits entirely
on the top of my house and works quite well.  The center insulator of
the antenna is on a 15-ft pole in the middle of the roof peak.  The
coax runs up the inside of the pole.

The 40-mtr legs, each 33-ft long, slope down as guy wires to two
diagonally opposite eaves.  The 20-mtr legs slope down to the other
two eaves, and are broken by insulators at 16.5 ft.

You should keep the far ends of the antenna legs a few feet away from
any metal objects, such as the aluminum siding.

Hope to work you on 40 cw!   -Dan  K8JWR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!aanews.merit.net!monroe.lib.mi.us!news
From: Dan Metzger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radiation Resistance
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 20:55:04 +0000
Organization: Monroe County Library
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm159-00.dialip.mich.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
To: Henry Knoll <[e-mail]>

>What is the proceedure for measuring the radiation resistance

I have measured feed-point resistance (roughly) this way on 80 meters:
Feed the antenna with a standard 50-ohm signal generator set to 5 V
out with no load.  Monitor the voltage at the feed point with a
voltmeter. Tune the generator or the antenna to resonance (minimum
voltage indication.)  Ohm's law will allow you to calculate the
feed-point resistance: it's a series circuit with V(s) = 5 V, R(1) =
50 ohms, and R(ant) as the unknown.  It may be helpful to add more
resistance to the 50 ohms in the case of high Z antennas.  Not
high-tech, but it put me in the ball park.

>I can calculate the efficiency--Yes?
Don't know.

Dan K8JWR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!iag.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!qualcomm.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Eric Gustafson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TopBand: Radiation Resistance
Date: 3 Nov 96 21:09:35 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


>From: Henry Knoll <[e-mail]>
>Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 21:40:13
>
>In reading some of the threads which mention radiation resistance
>of an antenna, I gather the following:
>
>Radiation resistance is not the same as feed point resistance.
>

True.  Feedpoint resistance includes loss resistance plus radiation
resistance.


>Average Joe Ham has no way to measure radiation resistance of an
>antenna, and even professionals can only measure antennas of
>small size.  Is this correct?

Essentially (not sure about the size limitation).


>If not, how can I measure the radiation resistance of my TH-7?
>

You probably can't.  But you really don't need to.  The real question is
why would you want to?  Since you can't really do anything significant
about either the radiation resistance or the loss resistance (unless you
want to make it more lossy) of that antenna, to what use could you put the
information if you had it?  If it is just a matter of satisfying curiosity
(a noble goal in itself), any of the various NEC-2 based modeling programs
will get you very close to the actual values if you feed the program an
accurate description of the antenna and traps.



>What is the proceedure for measuring the radiation resistance of an
>antenna, step by step for us dummies?
>

I don't have a good one.


>It seems that if I know the radiation resistance of the antenna, I
>can calculate the efficiency--Yes?
>
>73   Henry  WA0GOZ
>

Yes.

73,  Eric  N7CL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news.azstarnet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.net-connect.net!news
From: Kyle Vidrine <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Type N
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 21:19:27 +0000
Organization: Net Connect, Ltd
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: as35.net-connect.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)

Does anyone know where i can find a diagram on the net for how to
soilder a Type N connector on some RG-8/u coax cable...

--
Kyle Vidrine

Email    : [e-mail]
Homepage : www.net-connect.net/~kc5ltg


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:58 1996
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From: Ken Sturgill <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: NEEDED: Assbly. sheet for Wilson System 1 Tribander
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 13:49:57 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)

I have lost the assembly sheet for my Wilson System One tri-band
antenna.  If anone has a copy I will pay copy cost and postage.  Thanks
es 73, Ken



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:50:59 1996
From: Jay123a <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: tw.bbs.alumni.chungli,tw.bbs.alumni.kshs,tw.bbs.alumni.skshs,tw.bbs.alumni.stdm,tw.bbs.alumni.sungshan,tw.bbs.alumni.tfhs,tw.bbs.alumni.tssh-ccgsh,tw.bbs.alumni.viator,tw.bbs.alumni.wuling,alt.fan.alyssa-milano,alt.ham-radio.am,rec.radio.amateur,sci.astro.amateur,uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,aus.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,fj.news.b
Subject: Re: Just try this, it will work
References: <[e-mail]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.104.240.216
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 96 22:30:55 GMT
Lines: 6
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.cftnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!ns1.aplatform.com!pagesat.net!mothra.westworld.com!207.104.240.216
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This has to be bogas, the e-mail address doesn't work.

Get a jaob slick.

Jay



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:00 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!metro.atlanta.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!altitude!usenet
From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BBS Posting Removal Protocol
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 17:58:10 -0500
Organization: Yellow Brick Road Inc.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamicppp-44.hip.cam.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)

Dan Metzger wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me how this BBS decides when to remove a posting from
> the board?  I made a posting on Tues (it's now Fri) and it's gone.
> Yet I see a number of posts from Sun.
>
> I'm using Netscape 2, and I have got my options set to "show all
> messages."  Thanks, and sorry if this is a dumb question.

I don't think it comes from the "BBS". All messages are managed
by Usenet and in theory stay there for ever???

The removal comes most of the time from you service provider. If
they kept all messages for all newsgroups they will needs terabytes
of storage, so they keep them for a certain time only.

You can access most messages from DejaNews at
  http://www.dejanews.com/

there is also a Usenet FAQ list at :
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/FAQ-List.html#R

Madjid


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:06:30 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55j8hm$[e-mail]>
References: <55dr8t$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

Hi Tom,

RE: Testing antennas--

The same ways you do.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:07:40 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55j8js$[e-mail]>
References: <55e0fh$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: K1BQT's comments.

How, or why, would I WANT to stop you from doing anything, Rick?

I am not ashamed of anything I say.

73
Chip N1IR



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:07:57 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 7
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55j8kd$[e-mail]>
References: <55e0fh$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: report my findings.

Which findings Rick?  Why should publish  I CTHA findings?(at least to
this point).

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:37:09 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 15
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55jab5$[e-mail]>
References: <55fmdq$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Pete's Comments

Now THAT makes sense.

The point is: did the antenna communicate with a satellite? Sure! I bet it
did! Again, I don't think the wording was meant to be scientific; its a
PRESS RELEASE! I suspect its accurate but poorly worded.

Again, I think you should get John Craven in here--He isn't the guy BEHIND
the press release. I bet he's a little more objective.

Why don't you guys just ASK HIM.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:37:13 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55jab9$[e-mail]>
References: <55iueo$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Tom's comments

Now Tom you're attacking the DDRR! OH! Now I know where YOU'RE coming
from! It all makes SENSE now!

FYI the DDRR works just dandy. Nope; I won't waste my time explaining it
to you. Nope; I won't dig out the references either.

Clearly you need to do some reading.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:47:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55javb$[e-mail]>
References: <55ebq3$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Taanya

I'm not particularly interested in 'net sex.

I'm married; mostly happily. And if I get lonely there is the life of the
mind.

In any case, you need to keep this stuff off the newsgroup, as it is not
:1) antennas; 2) relevant. I am flattered by your interest, considering we
have never met.

I wish you luck in your social endeavors. I hope you get along with
Richard Simmons (whoever he is).

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 19:00:04 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55jbm4$[e-mail]>
References: <55iueo$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Tom's efficiency comments.

I will make one last comment (besides CALL JOHN CRAVEN):.

The  small fractal loop of this size is more efficient than a (loaded)
1/2 wave loop.  It has a higher field strength.These are facts.. They
don't depend on some multiple-choice definition of 'radiation resistance'.
 See my earlier posting from about 3 October.

Tom and Rick: we have been asked, nicely, to take 'fractals' off the
newsgroup. I believe Tom was asked (by someone else; not me) to "SHUT THE
FUCK UP". And I was chided for saying anything.

I agree, so I've taken it off the newsgroup. Perhaps disguising it in this
context is inappropriate.

I will continue to correct inaccuracies concerning fractal antennas--but I
won't bring them up.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:06 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 19:23:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 14
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55jd1t$[e-mail]>
References: <55effj$[e-mail]>
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In article <55effj$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:

]>    This is called "experts" syndrome:  My mind is made up,
>don't confuse me with the facts.  :) :)
>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV

Hi Tony,

Chip's here, and he won't answer questions about fratals. I guess it's a
case of do as I say, not as I do...eh? Or does your statement apply to
both sides?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: DDRR--Results?
Date: 3 Nov 1996 19:25:51 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55jd6f$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

Hi All--

Tom W8JI recently posted a comment to the effect of: "the DDRR...a few
people that swear they work...might even invent cases where the (SIC)
claim results..."
Not sure about this 'invent..results' stuff.. or what Tom means by this.
What REAL results do you have?

Anyone work with these antennae? I have been working with some microwave
versions for the last 2 months and quite happy with the results. What have
you found? My impression is that this is one of the most misunderstood of
antennae--and among the least used. Let me know what you've found and I'll
put some more  of my results up on the newsgroup.

One important note: the EFFICIENCY of the DDRR family is strongly
dependent on the ground screen used and the HEIGHT of the ring. My results
are with a 5% of a wave  (or greater ) height. Also note: ARRL pubs (in my
opinion)  do a poor job (let me be more specific--an incomplete job) of
describing the variations of DDRR's--so beware.

Also note: I am (personally) not interested in a comparison to another
antenna type; just what you've found for the DDRR.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:08 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:30:10 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]> <55hata$[e-mail]> <55iltu$[e-mail]>
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Phil Hodge wrote:
>
> Kevin [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > A single accelerating charge radiates. The formula (here in cgs units)
> > for the power radiated was derived nearly a 100 years ago (1898)
> > by Lienard:
> >
> > P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt))
> >
> > where e is the electric charge, Gamma = 1/sqrt(1-Beta^2),
> > Beta = particle veloctiy/speed of light. Beta is a vector and
> > x is the cross product. So dBeta/dt is the acceleration divided
> > by c. You can see that the power radiated does depend on the direction
> > of the acceleration relative to the velocity.
>
> For nonrelativistic speeds, however, the expression for instantaneous
> total radiated power reduces to:
>
>         P = 2/3 * e^2 * |dV/dt|^2 / c^3
>
> where |dV/dt| is the magnitude of the acceleration, and c is the speed
> of light.  In this case, the direction of the acceleration is irrelevant.
> This is equation 14.22 in Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics.
>
>

If a particle is radiating it is losing energy. If it is in a steady
orbit (radius constant) it is not losing energy, therefore it is not
radiating to any significant extent. Isn't this common sense?

The magnetic field that determines the circular orbit does not change the
energy state of the particle. Also, I see the speed of light *cubed*.
Also, are we sure that dV/dt applies to the accelation of centripetal
force (I don't believe that for one moment)? There is something wrong
here. What is it?

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How do you measure radiation resistance?
Date: 3 Nov 1996 19:46:20 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 38
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55jecs$[e-mail]>
References: <55djel$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Tom's comment.

Yes Tom; you need to take fractals off the newsgroup.

 But once again, a fractal loop (which is resonant) has a higher radiation
resistance and higher field strength than a loaded half wave loop.

By radiation resistance I mean:"the drive resistance with the current
antinode at the feedpoint". I do not mean including the ohmic losses.

You are correct; there are inaccuracies in the published papers regarding
this conventional use of the definition of radiation resistance. You have
known that I have agreed with you since our telephone conversation in
July. Ask Terry Littlefield.  Thank you for pointing it out.What you FAIL
to mention is that you have withdrawn your technical correspondence to
Comm. Quart., which I was asked to take as the opportunity to correct
these as a response.

What you ALSO fail to mention is that I posted that info on the newsgroup
already;several times.

You also have some strange sense that fractal antennas don't work, which
is incorrect. You also feel that by not using this definition of radiation
resistance that all my claims for performance of fractal antennae are
wrong. That logic is also factually incorrect. Here's the principle
reason: the current antinode occurs AT THE FEEDPOINT for the resonant
fractal antennae I discuss! It is a profound disservice to the state of
antenna development that you do this.

You are correct that ELECTRICALLY SMALL ANTENNAE OF ANY GEOMETRY PERFORM
POORLY. But I said this about a zillion times on the newsgroup. Or don't
you read the postings?

When I say efficiency, I mean the conventional definition.  And the reason
for attempting a measurement is that other people want to know what it is.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:10 1996
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From: "Robert A. Elliot" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: KLM KT-34A SWR Problem
Date: 4 Nov 1996 00:46:52 GMT
Organization: Capital Internet Consultants
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <01bbc9e9$99d5a8e0$110b71ce@p150>
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I just installed a KT-34a and have a 2:1 swr accross all 3 bands.  New
antenna with new 213 coax.  Any idea what may be the problem?

73, Bob

----------
Robert Elliot
[e-mail]
http://www2.pcix.com/~ne1r
----------
Senior Consulant
Capital Internet Consultants
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:11 1996
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From: Robert Newland <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ????
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 19:39:47 -0800
Organization: The Why? Network
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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visit the tired old mans page at http://www.why.net/home/robtnew for ham
links and sports and more!


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!iag.net!newspump.sol.net!posts.execpc.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Glenn Ziolkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF Log Periodic Antenna
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 03:41:32 GMT
Organization: Exec-PC BBS Internet - Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <55jolt$[e-mail]>
References: <3271498a.2910103@204.127.3.4>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Otulp) wrote:

>Hi,
>I'm trying to design a Log Periodic Antenna
>Frequency range= 300-500 MHz
>Number of Elements= 10

>Is there a free program that will generate the element spacings out
>there in the World Wide Web?...TIA

I found a Lotus speadsheet on CompuServe that will do the calcs for
ya.  I'm using it in MS-Excel.  E-Mail me and we'll arrange to get it
to you.

Glenn







From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (jerry shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS LARSEN KG2/70 UDPL 2MTR 440 ON GLASS ANTENNA
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 04:19:29 GMT
Organization: CampusMCI
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: s23-pm01.pcc-uky.campus.mci.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

WON THIS ANTENNA  AES PRICE $82.95 =SHIPPING   I WILL SHIP FOR $75.00
IN USA 73'S JERRY SHEPHERD     [e-mail] or 606-886-9031


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 3 Nov 1996 23:23:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <55iltu$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil
Hodge) writes:

>where |dV/dt| is the magnitude of the acceleration, and c is the speed
>of light.  In this case, the direction of the acceleration is irrelevant.
>This is equation 14.22 in Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics.
>
>                                               Phil

Not when more than one charge is accelerated, when the accumulated effect
is considered.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:15 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 4 Nov 1996 04:47:53 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <55jshp$[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]> <55hata$[e-mail]> <55iltu$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: general4.asu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

William E. Sabin ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Phil Hodge wrote:
: >
: > Kevin [e-mail] wrote:
: >
: > > A single accelerating charge radiates. The formula (here in cgs units)
: > > for the power radiated was derived nearly a 100 years ago (1898)
: > > by Lienard:
: > >
: > > P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt))
: > >
: > > where e is the electric charge, Gamma = 1/sqrt(1-Beta^2),
: > > Beta = particle veloctiy/speed of light. Beta is a vector and
: > > x is the cross product. So dBeta/dt is the acceleration divided
: > > by c. You can see that the power radiated does depend on the direction
: > > of the acceleration relative to the velocity.
: >
: > For nonrelativistic speeds, however, the expression for instantaneous
: > total radiated power reduces to:
: >
: >         P = 2/3 * e^2 * |dV/dt|^2 / c^3
: >
: > where |dV/dt| is the magnitude of the acceleration, and c is the speed
: > of light.  In this case, the direction of the acceleration is irrelevant.
: > This is equation 14.22 in Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics.
: >
: >

: If a particle is radiating it is losing energy. If it is in a steady
: orbit (radius constant) it is not losing energy, therefore it is not
: radiating to any significant extent. Isn't this common sense?

: The magnetic field that determines the circular orbit does not change the
: energy state of the particle. Also, I see the speed of light *cubed*.
: Also, are we sure that dV/dt applies to the accelation of centripetal
: force (I don't believe that for one moment)? There is something wrong
: here. What is it?

: Bill W0IYH

Bill,

First let me correct a typo
P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt)^2)
You then don't have to subtract a vector from a scalar. Phil
is right, that for nonrelativistic velocities it doesn't matter
what direction the acceleration is, since the second term
is down by a factor of (v/c)^2.

A constant magnetic field does no work on the charge as you say.
However, the radiation energy does not come from the work done by the
magnetic field, it comes from the the loss of orbital energy and the
particle is not in a steady orbit. Exactly this radiation is used in
synchrotrons to get x-rays; I believe you mentioned this yourself in a
previous post. In particle storage rings, you have to have regions
where you accelerate the particles with E fields to compensate for the
radiation loss. However, nearly all of the radiation loss comes from
the circular motion in the magnetic fields.

The speed of light cubed factor is correct in cgs units. If we all
agree that the radiation E field is proportional to the acceleration,
a, and to the charge, e, then since power radiated is proportional to
the field squared, it is proportional to (e*a)^2. e^2 in cgs has units
of energy-length, and a^2 has units of length^2/times^4, so with three
powers of c in the denominator, P has the correct energy/time units.
The only way to change this factor would be to have the radiation
fields not be propotional to e*a. In any case, if you still don't
believe this formula you might consider reading J.D. Jackson's book. It
is very well written and has been used for 30 years as a text. The few
mistakes and misprints that have been pointed out in the original
printings and editions have been corrected in that time. If you have
questions, I would be happy to try to answer them.

73 Kevin [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:16 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 05:09:00 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <55jtpi$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55gm66$[e-mail]> <55gmr8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx08-22.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <55gmr8$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns) wrote:
>  In fact, with proper feeds and/or proper loading, an antenna can be
>any length, with longer lengths capable of more gain.  Depending on
>the particular design, gain can be perpendicular to the length of the
>antenna, or at just about any desired angle from the wire except
>directly off the ends.  All sorts of vertical patterns are possible.
>. . .

Mighty interesting. Something I've been interested in for some time is a
vertically-polarized antenna that has its major radiation at an angle of
20-30 degrees above the horizon when over a perfect ground. My thinking is
that, if you could make such an antenna, a lot less of its power would be
dissipated due to ground reflection than from a conventional vertical, but
when placed over real ground its angle of maximum radiation would be about
the same. Now that I know it can be done, I'm very interested in how to do
it. Would you be so kind as to post some details or references?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:17 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS:NEW YAESU BATTERY
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 22:29:10 -0800
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.18.36
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FS:NEW YAESU BATTERY
ALL BATTERY IS MAKE BY YAESU

FNB-31  $ 30 +SHIP
FNB-38  $ 30 +SHIP
FNB-40  $ 30 +SHIP
FNB-41  $ 30 +SHIP


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on low-noise, low-band receiving antenna???
Date: 4 Nov 1996 06:43:09 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <55k39t$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Bill W7LZP wrote -
Is this correct?  I always believed a simple non-loaded dipole was virtually
100% efficient, and they have anthing but "uniform in phase current over the
length of the radiator".  Please explain.

Bill,
        The departure from uniform phase of the current in a
dipole is very small. Check it out with ELNEC or EZNEC.
Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!biosci!news.alaska.edu!news
From: james wiedle <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 1/8 Wavelength Antennas
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 22:17:05 -0900
Organization: center for human development
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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I'm looking to design a portable antenna for traveling and am thinking
about designing a 1/8 wavelength antenna.  Although I've seen various
obscure references to a 1/8 wavelength, I've yet to find any useful
information on this length.  Does anybody have any information on using
1/8 wavelengths?  Notably, what is their radiation resistance, angle of
reflection, and what does one need to feed them.

Thanks,

James Wiedle
WL7NO


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 03:38:14 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 36
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55ka1m$[e-mail]>
References: <55jbm4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Chip,

In article <55jbm4$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:
>
>The  small fractal loop of this size is more efficient than a (loaded)
>1/2 wave loop.  It has a higher field strength.These are facts.. They
>don't depend on some multiple-choice definition of 'radiation
resistance'.
> See my earlier posting from about 3 October.

You admit the radiation resistance theory was a mistake, but you still
seem to imply a fratal fold offers some efficiency advantage when used to
load a small antenna. What can you offer to support these claims?

>Tom and Rick: we have been asked, nicely, to take 'fractals' off the
>newsgroup.

No one asked nicely to take this anywhere, but the person who did post the
above comment indicated the problem was child-like responses (flames) to
simple questions.

> I believe Tom was asked (by someone else; not me) to "SHUT THE
>5555 UP". And I was chided for saying anything. >

Repeating an obscenity over and over again is as bad as saying it in the
first place. A practicing adult should understand that simple fact. You
were chided, if you will recall, for saying you didn't want to start a
flame war, and then flaming away.

If we can get past all that, I'm sure many people would like to hear how
bending a conductor in a fractal shape improves radiation efficiency. To
my knowledge, there is no way to accomplish increased efficiency, and FS
would increase only if folding increased directivity faster than loss.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: 4 Nov 1996 03:41:22 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Maybe everyone would be better off if Albatross was just totally ignored?

He seems to enjoy some pretty weird groups. If I was Paul Lee, I'd ask him
NOT to support me!!!!!

Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radiation Resistance
Date: 4 Nov 1996 03:42:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi Henry,

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Henry Knoll) writes:

>In reading some of the threads which mention radiation resistance
>of an antenna, I gather the following:

>Radiation resistance is not the same as feed point resistance.

In almost any case, it's not.

>Average Joe Ham has no way to measure radiation resistance of an
>antenna, and even professionals can only measure antennas of
>small size.  Is this correct?

They can estimate the radiation resistance of large antennas, but positive
measurement is almost impossible.

>If not, how can I measure the radiation
>resistance of my TH-7?

You can't.

>What is the proceedure for measuring the radiation resistance of an
>antenna, step by step for us dummies?

Depends. The radiation resistance is the total power radiated divided by
the square of current causing the radiation at some point. This "point"
seems to move around as time passes, and who is talking. I've been
researching this for a few years and every month I find a new definition.
In the 1940's it was the effctive current at the current loop causing the
radiation, in the 80's it's just the current at one point, in Jasik it's
the current at the loop of base or feedpoint, and he specifies the point.
In Krause, it's the feedpoint or the current loop randomly with no
specification.

So to be correct you have to say WHICH method you use, because they all
give different values for the same antenna.

>It seems that if I know the radiation resistance of the antenna, I
>can calculate the efficiency--Yes?

Nope. Not unless you know lot's of other things. The feedpoint resistance
(wrongly called radiation resistance) can do anything and the efficiency
can do something else.

I can have a vertical, make a system change that raises the base
resistance and increase efficiency, or it might lower it. This is true
whether the change is in the radials (if they are a resonant system) OR
the radiator.

Spending time measuring feedpoint resistance and forming conclusions is a
waste of time unless you have a very good idea what is going on at every
point of the system.

The only sure method of knowing a change in efficiency is via a FS
measurement.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:24 1996
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From: Duncan Clark <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Who Makes the best Quad?
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:46:16 +0000
Organization: DNAmp Ltd.
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55b3f2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: Duncan Clark <[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.01 <$Rs$gOIdQ8uAcGIB$H6v0dp7K$>

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes
>Gem Quad. It is the only one in which the element spacings are not a
>compromise

On a 2 ele they are not a compromise but with addition of a 3rd and 4th
element they are for those two elements.

Duncan
G4ELJ
4ele Gem Quad user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
The problem with being on the cutting edge is that you occasionally get
sliced from time to time....

Dr. Duncan Clark
DNAmp Ltd.
TEl/FAX [phone]
http://www.dnamp.prestel.co.uk
http://www.genesys.demon.co.uk


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:24 1996
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From: "Luis F.Camponovo" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Any feedback on cellular phone antenna extensions?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 11:58:47 GMT
Organization: Italia Com - Il Primo Consorzio di Internet Providers italiani
Lines: 10
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ATTA2 <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<550cds$[e-mail]>...
> Has anybody used those portable cellular phone antenna extensions that
are
> supposed to increase your range and reception?  Did they help and are
they
> worth buying?  Appreciate any feedback.
>


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:25 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 07:14:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 32
Sender: [e-mail]
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One last time: a 1/2 wave loop (for example) has a lower radiation
resistance and lower field strength than a fractal loop. That is a fact.

But hey--why believe me? Try it! Spend some time modeling it or building
it and see. Its all there Tom--in black and white. WHY WON'T YOU do any
work Tom;why believe anyone else but yourself? Hmmm?

And hey--building the 7 wire nest should be edifying: Linden and
Altschuler's optimized (fractal) antenna. Rather, an OPTIMIZED
antenna--which is f-r-a-c-t-a-l.

And didn't I say about a zillion times that the newsgroup is NOT a
publication? So why should I publish this here?

As for repeating:"SHUT THE FUCK UP"--someone else's admonition-- its clear
you can't seem to do it!

As for me, I am a scientist; we have been defined as 'Peter Pans'. If
growing up means becoming opinionated and pedantic --and wrong--no THANKS.

Incidentally, I want to hear some more on that DDRR you mention. Should be
lively! And stick it on the DDRR thread.

73
Chip N1IR



Look at yourself--you've ignored a strong  request and stuck it on another
thread.

73 Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:26 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 75meter DX antenna-60' vertical vs inverted V?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 08:25:08 EDT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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John,
If at all possible leave the Inv-V up and just add the
vertical. 80/75m are my favorite bands and I use a FLat-top
dipole, 1/4 wave vertical, and 4 slopers for these bands.
I have found that each antenna will be the best from time
to time given different propagation. But for long haul stuff
the vertical wins out most of the time. If you want to improve
your hearing try a beverage.
Gud Luck and DX,
Kyle
luna.moonstar.com/~wa4pgm




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W. E. Van Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to Build A Rhombic?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 12:26:17 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
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The discussion of the comparison between rhombics and curtains has missed
the main point.  It is true that a curtain can be built for one frequency
that will require less land area and provide more gain than a comparable
rhombic.  For commercial stations communicating with, or broadcasting to,
one area on one frequency this is clearly better.  But the big benefit for
hams is that the rhombic can be made nonresonant, hence usable over a
wide range of frequencies.

I once had the use of a military rhombic, located in Japan and directed
toward the east coast of Australia.  It was optimized for 4.0 to 8.0
MHz., but I used it on 10- and 20-meters.  Its performance was
unforgettable.  Using AM, several Aussies accused me of being a
bootlegger.  They refused to believe my signal was not local.

I also had a dipole for comparison.  The signal from the rhombic was always
several S-units better, even though I was transmitting on a frequency
more than four times the design optimum.

I think the nonresonant rhombic is the ideal amateur antenna, although it
is difficult to rotate. :-)

Van - W8UOF
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 12:53:03 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <55kovo$[e-mail]>
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In article <55jab5$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Fractenna) wrote:
>RE: Pete's Comments
>
>Now THAT makes sense.
>
>The point is: did the antenna communicate with a satellite? Sure! I bet it
>did! Again, I don't think the wording was meant to be scientific; its a
>PRESS RELEASE! I suspect its accurate but poorly worded.
>
>Again, I think you should get John Craven in here--He isn't the guy BEHIND
>the press release. I bet he's a little more objective.
>
>Why don't you guys just ASK HIM.

I'm sorry, I've deleted the original press release, so if John Craven's
telephone number or email address was in the message, I've lost it.

Would you be so kind as to post it here again so those of use who want to
take your advice, can? I'll be glad to contact him. Unless I missed it, he
hasn't posted any technical information about the antenna, so I'll be happy
to post it for him, once I get the information from him.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Frits Jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 75meter DX antenna-60' vertical vs inverted V?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 12:54:26 GMT
Organization: sni
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <55kp22$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,

[e-mail] says...
>
>Your collective wisdom please on the following situation:
>I am interested in long haul dx ing in the dx window on 75 meters. At
>present, I've got a birch tree between my house and my neighbors' which is
>about 60 feet tall. I have an inverted V trap dipole for 40 & 75 with its
>apex in this tree at 60'. The ends of this 105' trap dipole are at about
>40', (higher than the houses). The houses are 20' apart; the birch tree is
>right between them. This antenna works great into Asia from my Seattle QTH
>but the noise level on 75m is consistently S7 or louder, making working
>into Europe, for example, almost impossible. By the way, it is broadsided
>towards Europe, so it should "get out" in that direction, if I could only
>hear the dx. I live in the city limits (although not downtown), so I
>expect high noise to some extent. I've tried dsp filters, etc. to no
>avail.
>    I am well aware of the vertical antenna's reputation on low bands for
>dx work. I'm wondering if a 60' +/- wire vertical groundplane would
>improve my situation? Will there be more noise than an inverted V? Will
>the adjacent houses, only 10' away, eliminate any gains? I can only put
>ground radials on my property, not my neighbors, making for only a half
>circle (loosely speaking, since my house is so close) of radials. How much
>will this impact the performance? Is it worth tearing down the inverted V
>which is above the houses, to try a vertical groundplane? Many thanks for
>your thoughts. Best 73's, de John, KI7JB.
>
Hi John

I have a In V in 45 Feet, and a 60 foot vertical as you discribe in a tree. I
have about 15 full-size radials, and a groundrood about 6 feet. In europe the
InV is better, but into US and VE-land the vertical is 2,5 S better. In VK-lan
d
I can easily break the pile-up with the Vertical(59+15 with 1Kw), and they can
t
hear me on the InV. The vertical works for me, but I think of some kind of loo
p
recieving antenna to null- out some of the noise. I live 1 kilometer from town
,
so not much man-made noise. The Vert is not much more noisy than the InV.

For what its worth

Best 73 de OZ2Q, Frits near Copenhagen




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:30 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Want Info on building a magnetic balun.
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou1
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Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
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References: <55kls9$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:56:13 GMT
Lines: 22

What is it? Do magnets help baluns like the do carburators?


erwin cremers ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Hello,

: Is there any one who can tell me how a magnetic balun can be made and
: how it works ??

: Thanks for your reply,


: ///////////\\\\\\\\\\
:      Erwin Cremers
:  Dutch Radio Operator
:         PE1MGR
: \\\\\\\\\\\///////////


--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (erwin cremers)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Want Info on building a magnetic balun.
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:00:55 GMT
Organization: NLnet
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <55kls9$[e-mail]>
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Hello,

Is there any one who can tell me how a magnetic balun can be made and
how it works ??

Thanks for your reply,


///////////\\\\\\\\\\
     Erwin Cremers
 Dutch Radio Operator
        PE1MGR
\\\\\\\\\\\///////////



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Frenning)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP  TITAN
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:08:45 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf, Denmark
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55ii4u$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (harold) wrote:

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
>the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
>Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!
>
>I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
>have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
>Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!
>
>Any reply would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Harold
>-----------------------
You've paid good money for it, have it and had a reason for purchasing it.
The least you can do is to put it up and see for yourself. As always with
antennas: your mileage will wary / the proof is in the pudding.

All the pundits can do is to tell about their own experience and/or
theoretical musings.

Good luck

Vy 73 de OZ1PIF


*********************************   OZ1PIF  *****************************
Peter Frenning, UNIX Product Mgr., Siemens-Nixdorf DK, Ph.: [phone]
Snailmail: Dybendalsvaenget 3, 2630 Taastrup, Denmark, Fax: [phone]
                Email: [e-mail], (NERV: pfrenning.cph)
X400: C=DK; A=400NET; P=SCN; O=SNI; S=Frenning; G=Peter; OU1=CPH1; OU2=CC
***********  Come visit us on the web; URL http://www.sni.dk  ***********


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] ( Bill Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: NEC2 input cards
Date: 4 Nov 1996 13:45:28 GMT
Organization: East Central University
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <55ks1o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: student.ecok.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I have nec2 running under FreeSCO, and now need to find some
documentation concerning how to set up the input cards.  Any suggestions ?

Oh, yeah.  The nec2 stuff is on cs.ecok.edu in /pub/hamradio, or will be
later this morning.

BW
W5GFE


--
Bill Walker
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:35 1996
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From: 207531_BELLONI_MASSIMO <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Wire 2m dipole antenna
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:46:04 +0000
Organization: sa_area:[belloni]organization
Lines: 22
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Hello,

  I'm fresh of passed examinations, and I would like to build a wire
antenna to carry it in my paraglider harness. I've heard about dipoles
(2m) build using a shielded cable, where the shield is extracted and
acts as radial and the "hot" inner cable as radiator, as well as similar
type where the shield is just pushed back along the cable, so to obtain
a sort of dipole with the alimentation physically located at the end of
the radial. The problem is that I have no any formula to compute the
cable lengths to build it by myself.

  Is it there someone so kind to help me (post here, but also a private
E-mail is appreciated)?

   Many, many many thanks in advance for any help.
--
                                                Massimo

Massimo (Max) Belloni           - Email : [e-mail] -
Technology Specialist
Digital Equipment Corp. - Turin (Italy)
Velum Volitans PG Club - FAI n. O 865 - AeCI n. 20805 - FIVL n. 8889


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna Resonance and lowest Z?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 14:09:44 GMT
Organization: Nando.net Public Access
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <327df669.91172007@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1217.nando.net
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Books I have read about  antennas say that resonance is at the freq
where R is lowest.  The Autek RF Analyst manual says to use the point
of lowest Z.

This does not ring true from what I see running EZNEC on my 20 meter
quad .I know the technical definition  of resonance is when the
reactance goes to zero. If the
resistance did not vary with frequency, then the frequency of minimum
impedance would always be the resonant frequency. What I see is
resistance changing with frequency. Below is some data from EZNEC at
four freqs -- 13.9 Mhz, 13.95, 14.0, and 14.05 on my quad model:

--------------------------------------------------------------
         --------------- SOURCE DATA ---------------

Frequency = 13.9 MHz.

Source 1      Voltage = 63.212 V. at -20.46 deg.
              Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
              Impedance = 59.222 - J 22.101 ohms
              Power = 59.22 watts
              SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.547  (112.5 ohm system) =
              1.999


Frequency = 13.95 MHz.

Source 1      Voltage = 71.076 V. at  -6.59 deg.
              Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
              Impedance = 70.606 - J 8.1623 ohms
              Power = 70.61 watts
              SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.449  (112.5 ohm system) =
              1.607



Frequency = 14 MHz.

Source 1      Voltage = 83.558 V. at   1.81 deg.
              Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
              Impedance = 83.517 + J 2.6373 ohms
              Power = 83.52 watts
              SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.673  (112.5 ohm system) =
              1.349


Frequency = 14.05 MHz.

Source 1      Voltage = 97.039 V. at   5.73 deg.
              Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
              Impedance = 96.555 + J 9.6817 ohms
              Power = 96.55 watts
              SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.957  (112.5 ohm system) =
              1.196

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking at the data you can see that the reactance goes to zero a
little below  14.0 Mhz.

If I convert the rectangular coordinates to polar form, I get these
impedances:

13.9 Mhz  Z= 63
13.95       Z= 71
14.0         Z= 83.6
14.05       Z= 97

To find resonance using an instrument such as the Autek RF Analyst, it
seems one must look at more than just Z. You must also check L and C
to see where they are equal.

Comments?

K5ESW

Paul
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (dwh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: TENNADYNE T-31 50MHZ-1300 MHZ ANTENNA
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 15:08:23 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.173.249.36
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

For Sale,

   Tennadyne T-31 50Mhz - 1300 Mhz Log Periodic Antenna.  Good
Condition and works well.  It is on a 12 ft boom and has 31 elements.
It can be used horz or vertical.  Covers all freq's within the 50-1300
Mhz region with a SWR of less than 1.5:1.  Cost $240 new.  Will sell
for $150 plus shipping.  Email for details: [e-mail]
At last! A multiband antenna for the serious VHF/UHF'er




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:38 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 08:22:04 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]> <55hata$[e-mail]> <55iltu$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55jshp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-104.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> First let me correct a typo
> P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt)^2)
> You then don't have to subtract a vector from a scalar. Phil
> is right, that for nonrelativistic velocities it doesn't matter
> what direction the acceleration is, since the second term
> is down by a factor of (v/c)^2.

For low velocity I get:

(P/e)=(2/3)(e)(1/c^3)((d/dt)(v/c))^2

Okay on the radiation from a charge in a circular orbit. But at v<<c this
entire thing (P/e) looks *very* small (are we nitpicking?). In a wire, v
is the drift velocity (mobility .002) of an electron in a conductor which
is like molasses in January, compared to c. The wave may have VF=.95 etc
but electron velocity is very small.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:39 1996
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From: Kent Winrich <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Vertical gounds
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 10:36:39 -0600
Organization: Exec-PC BBS Internet - Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I want to mount my Hustler vertical on my garage.  Would the following
scenario work well?

Center the antenna on the roof and run ground plane wires to the corners
of the garage and run a wire at the edge of the garage to form a
square.  The garage is a 2.5 car (good sized).  Would this give me a
good ground plane?  r would I still have to run single band ground
wires?

Kent, NI9U


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Marc Illsley Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What SWR to Expect on VHF Copper J-Pole?
Date: 04 Nov 1996 16:36:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfimic.fc.hp.com

I just built a copper J-Pole for VHF.  According to my MFJ-259 antenna
analyzer, my best SWR at 146.00 MHz is 1:1.6.  This seems very high to
me, but I have no prior experience with J-Poles.  What is a reasonable
SWR to expect at the center of the VHF band?

--
Marc Illsley Clarke, [e-mail], KB0YDL, KB0YDL@N0MPI.#NECO.CO.USA.NOAM
4857 North Sheridan Avenue, Loveland, Colorado 80538-1767 USA
(Representing solely myself, I am emphatically NOT a representative of
any employer, club, group, church, league, organization, or government!)





From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:41 1996
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From: Walter Lamia <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ISO: homebrew-able turnstile antenna designs
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 09:50:39 -0700
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfcsbl.fc.hp.com
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Does anyone have information or a Web location for turnstile designs?  I
am interested in building something to experiment with MIR
communication, 144.80Mhz uplink, 144.20Mhz down.

--
Best regards, 73
----
Walter Lamia   Software Quality Consultant   Hewlett-Packard Company
[e-mail]       970-229-7410        3404 E. Harmony Rd - MS 65
KB0YAA                fax [phone]        Ft. Collins, CO 80525  USA




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:42 1996
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From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: *cheap* Yagi 432 MHZ Antenna
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 08:53:40 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <327b838d.8248927@204.127.3.4>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0104.celsiustech.se
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To: 127.0.0.10

David Copperhead wrote:
>
> I want to build a 432 mhz yagi, I found this web page on how to build
> it, but I need an overall picture on what it looks like, a diagram or
> schematic would be nice...TIA
> http://www.phoenix.net/USERS/biekert/vjb.html

I reccomend ARRL Antenna Handbook.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:43 1996
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From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: *cheap* Yagi 432 MHZ Antenna
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 08:54:29 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <327b838d.8248927@204.127.3.4>
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David Copperhead wrote:
>
> I want to build a 432 mhz yagi, I found this web page on how to build
> it, but I need an overall picture on what it looks like, a diagram or
> schematic would be nice...TIA
> http://www.phoenix.net/USERS/biekert/vjb.html

I reccomend ARRL Antenna Handbook

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to Build A Rhombic?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 17:25:31 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <55l8ub$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55knd9$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup546.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <55knd9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W. E. Van Horne) writes
:
>
>I think the nonresonant rhombic is the ideal amateur antenna, although it
>is difficult to rotate. :-)
>
>Van - W8UOF
>[e-mail]

So are 80 meter curtains....

     <chortle>

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:44 1996
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From: "The Manning's" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: antenna wench
Date: 4 Nov 1996 17:48:25 GMT
Organization: Home
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osp3.datasync.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
thanks
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:45 1996
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From: Tim Hynde <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ELECTRONICS TIMES publisher is sick?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:31:25 -0500
Organization: Isthmus Corporation
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55hmv4$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: James Lee <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:117552 rec.radio.amateur.policy:42708 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31071 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19940 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1206 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41757 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20769 rec.radio.amateur.space:8723

>James Lee wrote:

> Mike Mercado or KM6NP, who publishes the Electronics Times, even
> installed transmitter just for the purpose of jamming KJ6TQ
> operations and periodically broadcast warning to KJ6TQ repeater's
> users.
>
> Ham radio operators pride themselves in being polite.  Yeah right!

Well, there are still plenty of gentlemen operators left.

... and all that wide open space on 6m and 220 MHz ??...


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:46 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!news
From: Walter Lamia <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ISO: homebrew-able turnstile antenna designs
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 12:40:44 -0700
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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> Does anyone have information or a Web location for turnstile designs?  I
> am interested in building something to experiment with MIR
> communication, 144.80Mhz uplink, 144.20Mhz down.

Mark Brown, KB0PYO, caught an error in my original posting.  It's
145.200 up, 145.800 down.  Thanx, Mark.

--
Best regards, 73
----
Walter Lamia   Software Quality Consultant   Hewlett-Packard Company
[e-mail]       970-229-7410        3404 E. Harmony Rd - MS 65
KB0YAA                fax [phone]        Ft. Collins, CO 80525  USA




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:47 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Resonance and lowest Z?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 14:47:21 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 19
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55lh89$[e-mail]>
References: <327df669.91172007@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <327df669.91172007@news>, [e-mail] (Paul
Ferguson) writes:

>
>13.9 Mhz  Z= 63
>13.95       Z= 71
>14.0         Z= 83.6
>14.05       Z= 97
>
>To find resonance using an instrument such as the Autek RF Analyst, it
>seems one must look at more than just Z. You must also check L and C
>to see where they are equal.

Lowest Z (polar form) is not necessairily where resonance occurs, lowest R
is not either.

Lowest SWR is a VERY good indicator however.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radiation Resistance
Date: 4 Nov 1996 14:47:33 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55lh8l$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, Dan Metzger
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>I have measured feed-point resistance (roughly) this way on 80 meters:
>Feed the antenna with a standard 50-ohm signal generator set to 5 V
>out with no load.  Monitor the voltage at the feed point with a
>voltmeter. Tune the generator or the antenna to resonance (minimum
>voltage indication.)  Ohm's law will allow you to calculate the
>feed-point resistance: it's a series circuit with V(s) = 5 V, R(1) =
>50 ohms, and R(ant) as the unknown.  It may be helpful to add more
>resistance to the 50 ohms in the case of high Z antennas.  Not
>high-tech, but it put me in the ball park.
>
>

Good method Dan, but it is (as you said) the feedpoint resistance, not the
radiation resistance. And it only works at resonance, and if the test
equipment doesn't disturb the antenna.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 4 Nov 1996 20:18:57 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <55lj3h$[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]> <55hata$[e-mail]> <55iltu$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55jshp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

William E. Sabin ([e-mail]) wrote:
: [e-mail] wrote:
: >
: >
: > First let me correct a typo
: > P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt)^2)
: > You then don't have to subtract a vector from a scalar. Phil
: > is right, that for nonrelativistic velocities it doesn't matter
: > what direction the acceleration is, since the second term
: > is down by a factor of (v/c)^2.

: For low velocity I get:

: (P/e)=(2/3)(e)(1/c^3)((d/dt)(v/c))^2

: Okay on the radiation from a charge in a circular orbit. But at v<<c this
: entire thing (P/e) looks *very* small (are we nitpicking?). In a wire, v
: is the drift velocity (mobility .002) of an electron in a conductor which
: is like molasses in January, compared to c. The wave may have VF=.95 etc
: but electron velocity is very small.

: Bill W0IYH


The v/c should be v your formula, I assume that this was just a typo.
P is generally quite small.

My original post was simply to point out that:
1. The formula for radiation by a single charge is known and in
standard texts. So we don't have to argue about it here.
2. The formula does not apply to a group of charges moving coherently.
Since the currents in the wires of our antennas are exactly this
latter case, the formula for the power radiated from a single charge
is not very useful for antenna work.

I don't think we have any disagreement on these points.

I also don't think we have any disagreement on the following:

For antennas, you need to calculate the total radiation fields.  I'll
assume everything is nonrelativistic. If you know the current,J, as a
function of position and time, the vector potential, A, at a measurement
point is proportional to the integral of J/distance where J is
evaluated at the "retarded" time, i.e. the time when light would have
needed to leave the  J point to reach the measurement point. The
magnetic field is  Curl A, taking space derivatives of the distance,d,
makes 1/d^2 contributions to the field.  Since radiation fields go like
1/d, these terms cannot contribute to the radiation field. The retarded
time also depends on the measurement point, so the radiation field
terms come from the derivative of J with respect to the retarded time.
For a single charge the current is proportional to the velocity, and
the time derivative of velocity is the acceleration, so these give the
radiation field of a charge proportional to acceleration. You could
calculate the radiation from a wire by adding up all the tiny fields
from the electrons and then calculating the power from the sum of those
fields.

73 Kevin [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:51 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Glenn Mead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Diamond D-130 for 2m/440?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 20:46:32 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <55lkn8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joh
n Palinkas) wrote:
>I see in the spec sheet for the Diamond D-130 discone scanning antenna
>that it can be used to transmit on 2m and 440.  Does anyone have any
>experience with this antenna as far as transmitting with it?  I am
>trying to get by with one antenna for scanning and ham.  Thanks.
>
>John in N.E. Ohio
>KB8YTB

I've been using one for about a year as a general purpose
(all purpose) antenna. It works as advertised and is the
most versatle antenna I have. It doesn not offer the gain
that you can get by building an antenna for a specific
frequency, but it does work well. I use mine primarily for
scanning, but also as an antenna for 2m/440/6m when I get
busy.

Glenn - ke4zea


  .-------------------------------------------------------------------------.
  | Glenn Mead          |  KE4ZEA                |                          |
  | Data General Corp.  |  e-mail  [e-mail]   |  Without challenge there |
  | 62 Alexander Dr.    |  voice   919/248-6029  |  is no chance to excel.  |
  | RTP, NC 27709       |  fax     [phone]  |                          |
  |-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |               packet  KE4ZEA@WR4AGC.#DUR.NC.USA.NOAM                    |
  `-------------------------------------------------------------------------'



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:52 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.onenet.net!news.ou.edu!news.nodak.edu!galactica
From: [e-mail] (Joe Gregg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Which HF antenna?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 20:48:27 GMT
Organization: NDSU
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <55lkqr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dp1.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

A wind storm took my old Wilson system 2 down, so the insurance company and I
will be buying a new beam.  What should I get, under 7 or 8 hundred bux?

Joe

***************************************************************
Joe Gregg
Internet:  [e-mail]
Ham Radio Packet:  KN0A@W0ILO.#SEND.ND.USA.NOAM
Home:  701-588-4427
Work:  701-231-8353
"I yam what I yam, that's all that I yam"...Popeye, 1928
***************************************************************


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:53 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!wellspring.us.dg.com!dg-rtp.dg.com!smoke
From: [e-mail] (Glenn Mead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Thru-the-glass ant?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 20:49:57 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <55lktl$[e-mail]>
References: <5555k5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: smoke.rtp.dg.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>William Kucharski wrote:
>>
>> I've had a lot of luck with and like my Larsen Kulglass 2/70.  Lots of
>> complimentary reports on my signal, though the SWR is a bit higher than wit
h
>> the equivalent mag mount - to be expected.
>>
>> If you can, make sure you can get your hands on an SWR meter.  The rod that
>> shipped with my Kulglass was a bit short, so Larsen sent me a longer one I
>> could snip to the right length - perfect!
>
>I've got the Kulglass for 2m only... swr was 1.2:1 all across the
>band... My only problem now is that I removed it from the last car it
>was in, and can't find a source for the "Sticky" on the glass mounts to
>mount it in my new car! Any leads are welcome!
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>

What about the 'Rear Mirror' glue that is sold at auto
supply stores?

Glenn - ke4zea



  .-------------------------------------------------------------------------.
  | Glenn Mead          |  KE4ZEA                |                          |
  | Data General Corp.  |  e-mail  [e-mail]   |  Without challenge there |
  | 62 Alexander Dr.    |  voice   919/248-6029  |  is no chance to excel.  |
  | RTP, NC 27709       |  fax     [phone]  |                          |
  |-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |               packet  KE4ZEA@WR4AGC.#DUR.NC.USA.NOAM                    |
  `-------------------------------------------------------------------------'



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!netcom-uk-feed0!news.enterprise.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (harold)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: GAP - TITAN  ANTENNA
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 20:52:55 GMT
Organization: Enterprise PLC - Internet Services
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <55ll89$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp53.enterprise.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31087 uk.radio.amateur:22487

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!

I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!

Any reply would be greatly appreciated.


Many thanks,

Harold
email: [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!sunfish.hi.com!brainiac.hi.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Steve Byan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: T2FD antenna
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:01:55 -0400
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, Inc.
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55dpum$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: brainiac.hi.com

In article <55dpum$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Chuck
Forsberg) wrote:
> I use an Rf Ssytems "DX Listener" antenna, which switches between
> T2FD and simple longwire.  On some frequencies there is about a 10db
> difference in signal to noise ratio because the T2FD mode supresses
> locally generated computer RFI.  CB band is slightly quieter  in T2FD
> mode.  49 meters seems about the same either way.

I suspect this is due to the coax feedline rather than to any property of
the T2FD itself. In "simple longwire" mode, I believe the DX Listener
actually uses the feedline as part of the antenna (i.e. shorts the shield
to the center conductor) and the folded-dipole section simply provides
some top-loading.

See the Boston Area DXers we-site at http://www.grove.net/~badx/ for some
articles describing low-noise receiving antenna feed systems.

Regards,
-Steve

--
Steve Byan                                  internet: [e-mail]
Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
1601 Trapelo Road                           phone: [phone]
Waltham, MA 02154                           FAX: [phone]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Marc Illsley Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 04 Nov 1996 21:07:10 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfimic.fc.hp.com
In-reply-to: "The Manning's"'s message of 4 Nov 1996 17:48:25 GMT

>>>>> "Manning" == The Manning's <[e-mail]> writes:
In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> "The Manning's" <
[e-mail]> writes:


    Manning> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto
    Manning> the tower. It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of
    Manning> getting the antenna to the top. thanks
    Manning> [e-mail]

I loved your post, but suspect the word you were looking for was
"winch", true?

--
Marc Illsley Clarke, [e-mail], KB0YDL, KB0YDL@N0MPI.#NECO.CO.USA.NOAM
4857 North Sheridan Avenue, Loveland, Colorado 80538-1767 USA
(Representing solely myself, I am emphatically NOT a representative of
any employer, club, group, church, league, organization, or government!)




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news
From: [e-mail] (Bob Dengler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ELECTRONICS TIMES publisher is sick?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 21:21:08 GMT
Organization: JPL
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <55lmo4$[e-mail]>
References: <55hmv4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.149.10.55
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.02
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:117591 rec.radio.amateur.policy:42746 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31110 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19956 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1211 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41823 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20803 rec.radio.amateur.space:8730

In <[e-mail]>, Tim Hynde <[e-mail]> writes:
>>James Lee wrote:
>
>> Mike Mercado or KM6NP, who publishes the Electronics Times, even
>> installed transmitter just for the purpose of jamming KJ6TQ
>> operations and periodically broadcast warning to KJ6TQ repeater's
>> users.
>>
>> Ham radio operators pride themselves in being polite.  Yeah right!
>
>Well, there are still plenty of gentlemen operators left.
>
>.... and all that wide open space on 6m and 220 MHz ??...

Excuse me, 'wide open space' on 222 MHz?  Then why did the last 220 SMA meetin
g
feature a hearing due to a denial of freq. coordination to a repeater on Blue
Ridge, and why were there 2 freq. coordinators on 222 MHz in So. Cal. for a
while?  The 222 MHz band may not be used as much as 2 meters, but it's stuffed

full of repeaters.  There is some room on 6m, but it's awfully noisy.

I'm not sure we can blame Mike for the mess on 446.65.  He is only a pawn of
SCRRBA, which apparently decided that the frequency shall not have an 'open'
repeater on it.  The 'warning' transmitter cites references to SCRRBA
coordination, but makes no mention of possible coordination of KJ6TQ by other
freq. coordination entities, so it is not accurate to say that any other
repeater on the freq. is uncoordinated.

Bob NO6B (KE6TZF)



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:58 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk!tgold
From: [e-mail] ("Anthony R. Gold")
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 21:27:27 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Mail2News-User: [e-mail]
X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.dircon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30

In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
           [e-mail] "The Manning's" writes:

> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
> It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
> thanks

Why not use a winch?

Unless you really have too many wenches where you are, it seems a
shameful waste to use one for raising antennas up towers.

Regards,
--
   Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM                  email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:58 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com!news
From: Marty Gulseth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: KLM KT-34A SWR Problem
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:35:35 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Spokane Division
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbc9e9$99d5a8e0$110b71ce@p150>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpspkwt.spk.hp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
To: "Robert A. Elliot" <[e-mail]>

Robert A. Elliot wrote:
>
> I just installed a KT-34a and have a 2:1 swr accross all 3 bands.  New
> antenna with new 213 coax.  Any idea what may be the problem?
>
Hi Bob,

I put together a KT-34A about 14 yrs ago, same results. I called KLM,
talked to
someone there, they recommended substantially different dimensions than
in the
book. Also, they had changed material on the "linear capacitors", and
sent me a
new batch of insulators. Pain to disassemble, then reassemble with the
new
insulators, dimensions - but - antenna worked FB (SWR-wise) afterward.
Never made
any "official" measurements, but I liked the antenna a LOT!

Best wishes!

Marty - W7LEJ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:51:59 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Who Makes the best Quad?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:13:44 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <55lp16$[e-mail]>
References: <55b3f2$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-41-202.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 4 Nov 1996 22:00:06 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (WayDaBe37) wrote:

>Hello To All,
> Would like input on who makes the best 3band 2element HF Quad. Appreciate
>your input.
>73
>Tim,KC7QOM

Gem quad is good, but a 2el quad from Antenna Mart is better.  Look up
the Electronic Switch (ESCO) web page for more info.   Or call Bill
Wall (KC4UZ) at Antenna mart 770-466-4353

Dave K4JRB



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:00 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to build a 800MHz Yagi?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:24:52 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <327e6cbc.35661033@204.127.3.4>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: 127.0.0.10
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.70.37.195
X-No-Archive: Yes

here's a 800mhz 10 element with 15dbi
---------------------------------------------------------
 10
I
    7.03667
    6.96253
    6.33805
    6.24948
    6.16432
    6.08550
    6.01629
    5.95640
    5.90443
    5.85887
    0.00000
    3.18891
    4.39050
    6.83747
   10.01294
   13.70528
   17.79855
   22.21939
   26.91720
   31.85492
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
    0.12500
YAGIMAX
11-04-1996



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!news.jersey.net!news3.agis.net!agis!news5.agis.net!agis!news1.agis.net!agis!news.interworld.net!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Merv Stump <"[e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna Modeling Software
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:44:57 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <55lrka$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.116.42.209
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; I)

Anyone used or know anything about NECWin.  It is supposedly Windows 95
software based on NEC2.  Made by Paragon Technology, which based on
their address has some association with Penn State.  There are two
versions:  NECWin-Basic which is under $100; and NECWin-Pro which is
around $100.  I have the brochure on the "Pro" and it looks
impressive.  Waiting for one on the "Basic" version.

Any one using either of the products?

Thanks, Merv


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!tezcat!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!nntp.snet.net!news.snet.net!usenet
From: "Barry Burke Jr." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 14:51:17 -0800
Organization: Connecticut's Premier ISP!
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nwhn02-sh12-port222.snet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-SNET2  (Win16; U)
To: The Manning's <[e-mail]>

The Manning's wrote:
>
> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
> It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.


Are you looking for a "winch" or a "wench"?  If it's the latter I think you ma
y want to
look in some of the alt.* newsgroups. <G>


Barry


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!iag.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Modeling Software
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 23:19:13 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <327e793a.38859588@204.127.3.4>
References: <55lrka$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: 127.0.0.10
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.70.37.195
X-No-Archive: Yes

On Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:44:57 -0500, Merv Stump
<"[e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Anyone used or know anything about NECWin.  It is supposedly Windows 95
>software based on NEC2.  Made by Paragon Technology, which based on
>their address has some association with Penn State.  There are two
>versions:  NECWin-Basic which is under $100; and NECWin-Pro which is
>around $100.  I have the brochure on the "Pro" and it looks
>impressive.  Waiting for one on the "Basic" version.
>
>Any one using either of the products?
>
>Thanks, Merv

I bought the NECWin-Basic for 75.00 last year and it is lame, it was
written in visual basic 3.0 it looks like they had a 5 year old write
it...I am using AWAS for windows instead. don't waste your money.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news
From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 16:05:15 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55a7pg$[e-mail]> <55gl03$[e-mail]> <55hata$[e-mail]> <55iltu$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55jshp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55lj3h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-106.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> The v/c should be v your formula, I assume that this was just a typo.
> P is generally quite small.
>
> My original post was simply to point out that:
> 1. The formula for radiation by a single charge is known and in
> standard texts. So we don't have to argue about it here.
> 2. The formula does not apply to a group of charges moving coherently.
> Since the currents in the wires of our antennas are exactly this
> latter case, the formula for the power radiated from a single charge
> is not very useful for antenna work.

It was an interesting topic. I do not have any references about Lienard,
but he coincides with Thomson's discovery of the electron and its e/m.

Okay about the aggregate of charges.

>
> For antennas, you need to calculate the total radiation fields.  I'll
> assume everything is nonrelativistic. If you know the current,J, as a
> function of position and time, the vector potential, A, at a measurement
> point is proportional to the integral of J/distance

Okay. I know about the far field retarded vector potential A and its
relation to antenna current density J. The far field E and H are found
from the curl of A. The near field coupling from antenna to 377 Ohm space
also involves the E field and displacement currents but I'm running out
of steam at this point. I believe the near field is the real "launching
pad" that the folks are inrterested in.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!iag.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!post.servtech.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Robert G. Strickland)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Which Quad?
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 00:44:05 GMT
Organization: ServiceTech, Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <55m2lr$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: regcon.syr.servtech.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Rick...
I bought a 2-el Lightening Bolt and have been very happy with its
construction and staying power. Works well as an antenna, too.
...Robert

Rick Perry <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Looking for recommendations on which quad to buy.  My interests are a 4
>element 20 to 10 meters (5 band) model.  I come across two companies
>Cubex and Lightning Bolt.  Some significant differences ie.  Sq ft.
>Cubex 6.5 and Lightening Bolt 12 Sq ft., yet the Cubex weighs 66 lbs and
>the LB weighs 60 lbs.  Really would like some comments from anyone with
>knowledge about the Cubex, LB or any other.    I live in Eastern
>Washington where we get snow (not too bad) and in extreme cases winds to
>about 50 mph (rare).

>Thank You,  Rick KG7A




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:06 1996
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From: Merv Stump <"[e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Modeling Software
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 20:11:09 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <55m46f$[e-mail]>
References: <55lrka$[e-mail]>
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Merv Stump wrote:
>
> Anyone used or know anything about NECWin.  It is supposedly Windows 95
> software based on NEC2.  Made by Paragon Technology, which based on
> their address has some association with Penn State.  There are two
> versions:  NECWin-Basic which is under $100; and NECWin-Pro which is
> around $100.  I have the brochure on the "Pro" and it looks
> impressive.  Waiting for one on the "Basic" version.
>
> Any one using either of the products?
>
> Thanks, MervTYPO in my previous post - NECWin-Pro sells for around $400.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 20:14:45 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 50
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55m4e5$[e-mail]>
References: <55jab9$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <55jab9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:

>Now Tom you're attacking the DDRR!

How might someone "attack an antenna"? Do they sneak up on it and hit it
with a club, or simply walk up and shoot it? Antennas are antennas, they
aren't people. If you have an opinion that disagrees with mine make it,
but don't attack me because an antenna is a lousy radiator.

My point is the DDRR is an inefficient antennas. Some Ham magazine
articles claim it has a radiation mechanism caused by the electric field
between the loading hoop and the groundplane, and that that causes high
radiation efficiency, but it is the charges moving in the vertical area of
the conductor that causes EM radiation in the DDRR antenna.

One reference is in Dr. John Kuecken's "Antenna's and Transmission Lines",
where he describes shipboard antennas like the Hairpin Monopole. The DDRR
(AKA Hula Hoop Antenna) is described as an "inefficient radiator". Kuecken
says "In this antenna an unbalanced conductor above ground is used to top
load a short vertical radiator. The principle radiation is vertical, and
due to large resonant currents in vertical section."

You can find the efficiency described in Theoretical Considerations and
Experimental Results for the Hula Hoop Antenna (King and Burton, Microwave
Journal, Nov 1963). The antenna is presented as a very high Q relatively
inefficient device. I agree with that.

In one analysis a 1/45 wl tall capacitively loaded uniform current DDRR is
treated as a horizontal loop antenna over a groundplane (standard Rrad
formula, .00173 ohms) and a short vertical (Rrad .782 ohms) in series. The
currents are equal, radiation ratio of the two members making up the DDRR
is given by Rrv/Rrl = .7820/.00173  = 451. The top "loop" hardly radiates.
Of course the ratio of loop to vertical radiation varies with the ratio of
the radiation resistance of the two radiators, while efficiency (losses
being equal) increases with the square of the height increase.

The DDRR is simply a very short vertical top loaded with a bent loading
section. The properly measured  loop radiation resistance is almost
*exactly* the same as from a uniform current vertical radiator of the same
height, the only error being the additional small Rrad contribution of the
horizontal loop over a groundplane.

Perhaps your comparison is to a small fractal of similar dimensions, where
the DDRR would be much more efficient than a fractal of similar
dimensions. In that case the DDRR would work "dandy". Compared to a 1/4
vertcal over a similar groundplane, a DDRR isn't so "dandy". The equiv
scientific term would be "stinky".

73, Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:08 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Modeling Software
Date: 5 Nov 1996 02:49:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <55m9uu$[e-mail]>
References: <55lrka$[e-mail]> <327e793a.38859588@204.127.3.4>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca5-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Nov 04  8:49:02 PM CST 1996

In <327e793a.38859588@204.127.3.4> [e-mail] (David
Copperhead) writes:
>
>I bought the NECWin-Basic for 75.00 last year and it is lame, it was
>written in visual basic 3.0 it looks like they had a 5 year old write
>it...I am using AWAS for windows instead. don't waste your money.

    AWAS?   Where is this availiable?????

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:09 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: 5 Nov 1996 02:53:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <55ma7n$[e-mail]>
References: <55eenh$[e-mail]> <55eo24$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca5-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Nov 04  8:53:43 PM CST 1996

In <55eo24$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:

>I use about 100 ft spacing.
>Current is controlled by changing the impedance presented at the
common
>point (where the two lines are combined) by adjusting the T networks
(they
>also adjust phase slightly). The common point is then matched to 50
ohms.
>
>This is a little tricky, because the networks need to be swapped  like
>this:
>
>E  ant------90 deg line-----e      1------T
>net---===delay===180==cp---Tnet---2
>W ant------90 deg line-----w
>
>cp is common point
>delay line is 75 ohm 20 degrees shorter than S with a 180 degree flip
>lines to antennas are 50 ohms
>
>The T's are adjusted for deep back nulls (listening over the air) with
>minimum SWR at the CP feed (it's touched up with a L net at CP added
after
>initial adjustment).
>
>I do MOST of the phase in the delay line, the rest and power division
in
>the T's. Whatever is connected to 2 is the front, whatever connected
to 1
>is the rear. I just swap the antenna feeders around at 1 and 2. This
does
>it all, and is usable about 100 kHz wide on 160 with 1/4 wl verts.
About
>30-40 dB f/b at optimum freq and direction, maybe 20dB or so typical.
>
>I mix this antenna through a variable phase and level network with my
>receiving arrays on RX to notch QRN or peak desired signals. A little
more
>complex than normal, but optimum and adjustable.
>

    Tom:

    This all goes far beyond my question which hoped for a direct
answer in more fundamental terms. (Field practice is separate issue).

    Can you rephrase all of this ignoring the side issues of phase
in directional reversal and "notches" by added means?  Also, the
ascii depiction needs some clarification, I think.

    Thanks much.

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:10 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 02:57:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <55mads$[e-mail]>
References: <55effj$[e-mail]> <55jd1t$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca5-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Nov 04  8:57:00 PM CST 1996

In <55jd1t$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:
>
>]>    This is called "experts" syndrome:  My mind is made up,
>>don't confuse me with the facts.  :) :)
>>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV
>
>Hi Tony,
>
>Chip's here, and he won't answer questions about fratals. I guess it's
a
>case of do as I say, not as I do...eh? Or does your statement apply to
>both sides?

    Whatever fits, Tom!  It seems to me that there is much too much
closed mindedness on this issue.  After all, the research comes from
a credible institution (U of W.V.)  ...yeah the Press Release
reads otherwise ...but.  In their pages, it is billed as "research".

    Granted, UWV seems to be predominently chemical and mechanical
engineering oriented (certainly not with the same EE credentials as
U.C. Berkeley or Stanford <g>) but that does not mean a breakthrough is
not identifified.

    Why is not everyone interested in the fundamental explanations
going to the source (as has been suggested already)?  Robert Craven's
e-mail address is [e-mail]

    Personally, I'll leave to y'all "experts" to challenge the
hypothoses and empirical results.  I remain open-minded until all
the evidence is in.

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:11 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Doug)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Gasp!  Shriek!  A (shudder) TV Antenna?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:00:45 -0500
Organization: Heller Information Services, Inc.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm5-115.his.com

I realize that this is a bit off topic, but there is no
rec.television.antenna newsgroup, so I thought that this group might have
the technical expertise to help me out on this one. I'm in a situation
where I want to use plain old UHF and VHF, not cable or satellite, and I
don't have access to an outdoor antenna.  Because I'm atthe bottom of a
hill (which is between me and most of the local transmitters), a number of
stations are mildly to somewhat snowy, or flick from color to black and
white, etc.  Basically, I'm in an apartment building with no access to
cable or a rooftop antenna.

   Can anyone recommend either an indoor TV antenna, or an amplifier (or
other commercially available black box) that might help?  Are any of the
Radio Shack UHF/VHF amplifiers useful?  The probleml is not ghosting, but
rather weak signal.

Please e-mail me any suggestions, so as not to clutter up the newsgroup.

Thanks

--
You can learn to fly, but that cocoon has got to go.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:12 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:41:21 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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CM> Hi Joel, a 5/8 vertical with a good ground or a 2x5/8 dipole
CM> has the maximum gain available from wire with no other
CM> components.

> altavoz: You're wrong . A .6 wl needs a .6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM.
> Read my post on Paul H. Lee page 84 on radials on a half wave.

Isn't a ".6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM" a good ground? It either is or it
isn't. If it is, guess who was correct. If it isn't, guess who
is incorrect.

Most compact cars don't have .6 wl of body on 2m. Does that mean
that a .6 wl is not a good 2m mobile antenna for compacts?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF Log Periodic Antenna
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 03:53:16 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <327eb814.54952562@204.127.3.4>
References: <3271498a.2910103@204.127.3.4> <55jolt$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: 127.0.0.10
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.70.37.54
X-No-Archive: Yes

On Mon, 04 Nov 1996 03:41:32 GMT, [e-mail] (Glenn Ziolkowski)
wrote:

>I found a Lotus speadsheet on CompuServe that will do the calcs for
>ya.  I'm using it in MS-Excel.  E-Mail me and we'll arrange to get it
>to you.
>
>Glenn

If the filename is lpda.zip, the one on the QRZ! cd-rom I don't think
it works right...the elements come out too small vs frequency, it only
works on the example he gave...it is by the follow dude, is this the
one you have?
Excel sheet to design Logperiodic Dipole Arrays - OH3FG
 LOGPERIODIC DIPOLE ARRAY
 ARRL antenna book 15th edition
 p.10-4,10-5
 OH3FG/KO4BC June 18, 1993



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:14 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:55:06 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55irj7$[e-mail]>
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CHARLES J. MICHAELS wrote:
> First we must differentiate between a quarter wave antenna
> that is a full quarter wave length long, and one which is
> shortened to produce a purely resistive feed-point impedance.

Hi Charlie, I have always assumed that since the actual speed
of light is never achieved in an antenna conductor, that when
anyone says "quarter-wavelength", they are talking in context
about a "90 degree electrical quarter-wavelength" rather than
a "physical quarter-wavelength". Is that the convention or
have I assumed too much?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Zito)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Balun for Grove Scanner/Amateur Beam Antenna
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 04:06:02 GMT
Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31104 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41808

I have a Grove Scanner Beam Antenna without the balun. Has anybody out
there constructed or used another balun on this antenna? Have you used
it to especially to transmit on 2 & 70 Cm Amateur band? How about with
50 watts voice FM?
Thanks!
Bob

<[e-mail]> (Bob Zito) KI7EV WA. State


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:15 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 20:07:27 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55cc7g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
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Roy Lewallen wrote:
> Sounds just like "Kurt Sterba". Must be the same guy.

Hi Roy, I was thinking the same thing. Since he won't post
a name, I vote we nickname him "Kurt JR" Both guys are more
interested in flaunting their knowledge than explaining
anything to anyone.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:16 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 20:11:06 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55cc7g$[e-mail]> <55cuba$[e-mail]> <55de76$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
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Kok Chen wrote:
> His full moniker is, of course, Kurt N. Sterba (just say it fast).
> Forgot what is the name of his XYL now...

Do it military style - Sterba, Kurt N.

His XYL's pen name is Lil' Paddle, or something like that.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:18 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP - TITAN  ANTENNA
Date: 4 Nov 1996 21:09:27 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 110
Message-ID: <55mi67$[e-mail]>
References: <55ll89$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: csm1-48.up.net

In article <55ll89$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
>the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
>Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!
>
>I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
>have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
>Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!
>
>Any reply would be greatly appreciated.
>

   I posted this some time ago. I removed the antenna from its last place
described and replaced it with a HY-Gain DX-77 in mid October, 1996. The
DX-77 is a used unit. I purchased it to see if it had the same performance
as the Titan, when compared to the 80 meter dipole. I cannot comment in
detail, yet. I must replace 2 tuning rods on the DX-77 before I can check
it correctly. As it stands, it outperforms the Titan by approximately 6db
on 30m at all elevation angles. The Titan beats the DX-77 by about 3db, on
10m, at all elevation angles. Be a while before I will post the details.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


  I made the mistake of purchasing the Titan, after seeing it at the Dayton,
94 hamfest. I mounted it on a the roof of a single story wood frame building
with the counterpoise? 22 ft. above ground, 36" above the peak of the roof.
I used my FT-890, the Titan switched direct, and the 80m dipole, straight,
at 33ft with balanced feed switched through an MFJ-949B tuner, for the
following observations:

  Only on 40m did it perform better than my 80m dipole at 33ft, at low angles,

< 10 degrees, in most directions.  40m at >10 degrees it was consistently down

in all directions except a small sector off the ends of the dipole, where it
was 1 to 2 S units better. On 30m it was down by 2 S units,  compared to the
dipole in the directions of least difference between the two antennas. On 7,
14, 18, 21, 24 and 28 mhz it was down > 1/2 S unit at all az and el angles
with very few exceptions. On 80m the performance was down 1 to 2 S units, in
general, but given the antenna's space requirements and physical length, I
consider its performance acceptable.

   I used an MFJ-202 noise bridge to get an idea of ant Q, resonance and band
width. On 30m the resonance was 400khz high. On the other bands, it was
sufficiently close that operating environment/assembly, may have been
responsible for the errors noted. The Q was quite high and narrow on the high
end of 80m, exactly where it should have been for the capacitor used and
required on that band. As a general observation the other bands had an
antenna Q quite low and broad, which troubled me, bringing to mind the
characteristics of a dummy load.

  In the Fall of 94, a front passed through with winds gusting 50 to 60 mph
for a full day. The antenna was bent over some 20 degrees in a gentle curve
in the area a few feet above the "counterpoise". The decoupling/tuning rods
were all askew because of the twisting force generated when the antenna
flexes in the wind. I then removed the antenna from the roof, disassembled
it, straightened it, reassembled it and mounted it on a mast in the backyard
with the counterpoise 8 ft off the ground. I guyed it with 125 lb test nylon
net twine, in 90 degree directions just above the "gap". No
mechanical problems, since.

   No noticeable difference in performance, of any consequence, was noted in
its new location.

   During the Summer of 95, a friend brought over, at my request, a high
rent, new, Hewlett Packard spectrum analyzer and tracking generator, with
which we swept the antenna from 3 to 30 mhz. The results were very
consistent with what I had determined with the noise generator, and in
general, confirmed my suspicions that the antenna did have bandwidth,
resonance and Q characteristics that came dangerously close, on most bands,
to emulating those of a dummy load.

   No signal checks were made in transmit because I can in no way determine
the validity of a "signal report".

   I touched bases with GAP personnel on 3 occasions, over a period of the
first 18 months, and was in general, informed that my observations were
probably a consequence of the operating environment.

   I submit that the same characteristics exhibited by the antenna at 2
different locations is probably a consequence of design, barring some subtle
assembly mistake I made, assembling the antenna twice, with meticulous care,
by the book. I accept that my empirical methods may not hold up under the
scrutiny of perfectionists. I have no doubt of the general differences in
operating characteristics of the 2 antennas compared. I have no doubt about
the general antenna characteristics observed with the noise bridge and
spectrum analyzer. I have made my way through life as a generally competent
electronics technician who thinks about what he does, and despises wild a--
guesses.

   For the better part of the last 15 months, I have been using it with a Come
t
duplexer as an BCB/SW antenna for listening only, and as a 2 meter antenna for

local work. SWR on 146 is 1.6:1.

   Yes, I have buyer's remorse.  &:-(

                                      Pete, wa4hei




3db better on 10m.
>Many thanks,
>
>Harold
>email: [e-mail]
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!cbgw1.lucent.com!cbgw3.lucent.com!news.PBI.net!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: David Solomon <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: Re: GAP - TITAN  ANTENNA
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:49:38 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55ll89$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.116.34.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31132 uk.radio.amateur:22502

harold wrote:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
> the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
> Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!
>
> I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
> have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
> Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!
>
> Any reply would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Harold
> email: [e-mail]
> --------------------------------------------------

Sorry I don't have any specific experience with the Titan.  However,  I
have heard many hams comment on what a great antenna it is.  Excellent
reports!  If I was able to put up a large vertical antenna on my
apartment building, I would buy one in a second.

Good luck and let me know how it works for you.
73 de David - KB2SDD


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:20 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!grizzly.denali.net!NEWS!rommel.lostnet.org!cbrown
From: [e-mail] (Christopher E. Brown)
Subject: Phasing Coils for 2m/440 antennas
Message-ID: <b47cc$15373b.d8@NEWS>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 06:55:59 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 24

        Greetings all, I am looking for info on the construction of phasing
coils (pitch/spacing/form dia/wire gauge/etc...) for 6m and up antennas (or
down, though I am assuming the wavelength vs. material size would effect
things on HF).

        Also info on the pros/cons of using phasing coils or shorted stub
delays.  Does the better element spacing of the coil offset the radation
from the coil, or is a shorted stub (at 90deg to the elements) better.
How much does the position of the stub (at 90deg or folded against the
element) effect antenna pattern?

        All assumtions are made for 2 - 4 element VHF/UHF verticals.

73 de WL7CLA

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher E. Brown              WL7CLA                 <[e-mail]>

        As folks might have suspected, not much survives except roaches,
and they don't carry large enough packets fast enough...

        --About the Internet and nuclear war.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Who Makes the best Quad?
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 01:55:59 -0500
Organization: Delphi ([e-mail] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55b3f2$[e-mail]> <55lp16$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com
X-To: david l. thompson <[e-mail]>

david l. thompson <[e-mail]> writes:

>Gem quad is good, but a 2el quad from Antenna Mart is better.  Look up

What makes the Antenna Mart Quad better??? tnx.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!jjo
From: [e-mail] (Jari Jokiniemi)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Goniometer feed for bal line ?
Date: 05 Nov 1996 07:00:58 GMT
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1996Oct29.130802@axp1> <[e-mail]>
        <[e-mail]>
        <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ds10.tekla.fi
In-reply-to: Mandy Wright's message of Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:44:24 +0000


Then the thing I have must be a goniometer. Though, it is air wound
and the diameter is something like 3 or 4 inches. I suppose that could
be used for transmitting as well.
--
Jari Jokiniemi, [e-mail], OH2MPO, OH3BU
Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, [phone]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!fu-berlin.de!news.gtn.com!news.frankfurt.ecrc.net!news.ecrc.de!news.mch.sni.de!deep-petrol.rm.sni.de!news.sni.de!kebsch
From: [e-mail] (Kebsch)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HB9CV antenna experience on HF bands
Date: 5 Nov 1996 08:40:21 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG, Paderborn, Germany
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <55muhl$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: Waldemar Kebsch <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: norman.pdb.sni.de

Hi,

if you have made any experience with the HB9CV antenna on any HF band
please let me know. We are planning to build one for the 40m band at
our clubstation. We are thinking about this antenna design, because
it has 2 elements, a very short boom (1/8 wavelength), is easy to
build and has the same performance like a good 3 element yagi.

The idea behind that is, if a 3 element yagi does not perform better
than a HB9CV antenna, then there is no need to spend the money for
three elements instead of two, for a 10m long boom instead of 5m and
the rotator will be happy also ...

What do you think about it?

73 de Waldemar, DK3VN
--
E-Mail:  [e-mail] .. or .. Packet Radio:  DK3VN @ DB0NOS.#NRW.DEU.EU
Big antennas, high in the sky, are better than small ones, low!          [bfh]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: DDRR
Date: 5 Nov 1996 07:48:14 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55nd2e$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

Hi There--

Anyone built or modelled one of these 'hula hoop' antennas? Would be
interested to know your results. (I have the 'book' results: what have YOU
found?)

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:25 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!intac!magsystems!cybernet!roland.stiner
From: [e-mail] (Roland Stiner)
Date: 05 Nov 96 12:55:00
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-FTN-To: [e-mail]
Organization: MAG Systems, Inc/TFP BBS
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hf9v review
Lines: 49


S> Recently I built an Hf9v by Butternut and i am not happy with it. i know th
i
 >is an old antenna but for new people here are some warnings.

I have the Butternut HF6V and like it quite a bit.  Good performer too
as far as verticals go.

 >first the
 >Direction stink. They are not articulate in getting their message across. Ho
w
 >many not so gifted types can tell between a #10 and #8 screw. i can't, I had

 >find someone who could.

That is true.  Best thing to do is to lay out all the hardware and
compare the screws so that you can tell what is what by looking at the
relative sizes.

 > Next At least one of the links between the telescoping aluminum sections in
 >not well designed. You'll see which one should you build it, so be prepared
t
 >get a hose clamp for security.

The bottom section has a grove in it.  I do not know why they did that
but it could be a weak point.  Otherwise, the parts do fit well and you
just have to take your time putting it together.

 >Also, while you do get extra hardware, always a
 >bonus, if you build the associated counterpoise kit you don't get enough 75
o
 >coax to build a choke, be prepared to do connecter work after you go out and
 >buy some more.

You can buy the multi band counterpoise kit.  It is much easier.

 > Performance isn't bad. I have it mounted about four stories up on a buildin
g
 >at school here, but the maching and tuning is a major nightmare. Two hours o
f
 >tuning wasn't enough, be prepared to take a saturday to accomplish this feat
.

Now that is true.  It is so hard in fact that I went out and bought a
MFJ 402 impedance bridge (NOT the SWR bridge.)  That helped a great
deal!  If you can fit it into your budget, it is well worth it.  It is
also one of the better MFJ produced products.

I have a question for you.  I have the add on band units for 24 and 18
MHz.  How are the new ones doing as far as the SWR is concerned.  I had
to order them special because the new design did not give me acceptably
low SWR.

---
   OLX 1.53   73 DE: NK2U   E-MAIL ADDRESS: UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

--


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!intac!magsystems!cybernet!roland.stiner
From: [e-mail] (Roland Stiner)
Date: 05 Nov 96 12:55:00
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-FTN-To: [e-mail]
Organization: MAG Systems, Inc/TFP BBS
To: [e-mail]
Subject: USENET
Lines: 11


W>From: [e-mail] (EDWARD C GRAY)

W>subscribe

How are you able to get Usenet messages in E-Mail?

---
   OLX 1.53   73 DE: NK2U   E-MAIL ADDRESS: UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

--


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 08:48:36 -0500
Organization: Delphi ([e-mail] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
X-To: "The Manning's" <[e-mail]>

"The Manning's" <[e-mail]> writes:

>Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.

What does your wife think about you looking for an antenna
wench? When you find her, I sure would appreciate your
sending me her phone number. :-) Or did you mean winch?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Screwdriver question
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 08:51:06 -0500
Organization: Delphi ([e-mail] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com

Does the screwdriver mobile antenna short out the
unused turns of the coil or just leave them open
circuited? I've heard one gets losses from a
shorted coil and high voltages from an open
coil.

thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!rainbow.rmi.net!rainbow!jonz
From: [e-mail] (Bea and Marvin Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 5 Nov 1996 14:08:41 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet - (800) 900-RMII
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <55nhp9$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rainbow.rmii.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Marc Illsley Clarke ([e-mail]) wrote:
: >>>>> "Manning" == The Manning's <[e-mail]> writes:
: In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> "The Manning's"
 <[e-mail]> writes:
:     Manning> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto
:     Manning> the tower. It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of
:     Manning> getting the antenna to the top. thanks
:     Manning> [e-mail]
: I loved your post, but suspect the word you were looking for was
: "winch", true?

Which brings to mind an ad in the Denver Post many years ago:

   For Sale: Jeep 4wd with 2,000 lb wench.

73
Jonesy W3DHJ
__
SK


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.stealth.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net!andy.gardner
From: [e-mail] (Andy Gardner)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Balloon-borne antenna?
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:13:45 +1200
Organization: None whatsever
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <550dp3$5i3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip202-135-48-202.wn.nz.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.1
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31178 rec.radio.shortwave:88060

Felix <[e-mail]> wrote:

> What's a good source of infor on balloon-borne antennas for receiving?
> I'm thinking of a DXpedition to a coastal location and wondering how
> much difference a few hundred feet of vertical wire could make.
> Interested in receiving only, but everything from 30 MHz down to
> the ground. Presumably LF and VLF is where it would really make the
> difference. Can anybody advise me based on experience? Thanks!

No experience in this field yet.

For LF & VLF you'd probably need a good deal more than a few hundred
feet of wire. THis causes two problems. If you use thin wire (thin
enough for a ballon to lift, the wire will probably stretch and break.
If you use thick wire (thick enough not to break), the wire would be so
heavy that you'd need a sizeable ballon to hold it aloft.

Another possible aerial experiment that may turn out easier to do and
more successful would be to go to somewhere with relatively steep hills
and suspend a wire between two peaks.

One thing I'm going to try soon (for MW DX) is to run a beverage antenna
along a valley between two mountains in an attempt to assist the
attenuation of local signals from unwanted directions.

Andy Gardner
Wellington, New Zealand
Telecom XTRA - Just say NO


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.structured.net!crusty.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx06-17
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 14:33:24 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <55nj7r$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx06-17.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

Sent 11-5 to [e-mail]:

Dear sir:

Press releases about the contrawound toroidal helical antenna have raised
interest in several Internet newsgroups. However, none of the readers has
seen any quantitative data regarding the antenna's performance. If you
would send me any information you have about the antenna's gain, pattern,
efficiency, and impedance, I'd be glad to post in on the relevant
newsgroups for you. Any other quantitative technical information, or
results of laboratory tests which you would be willing to release, would
also be welcome. I'm sure that this antenna will create even more interest
when its attributes are more widely known.

Thanks very much,

Roy Lewallen, P.E.

phone [phone]
fax   [phone]
email [e-mail]

5470 SW 152nd Ave.
Beaverton, OR 97007

----------------------------------

Hope I have better luck than I did with the Uni-hat guys. They never did
send the test data they claimed to have.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!galton.psycha.upenn.edu!hughett
From: [e-mail] (Paul Hughett)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Balloon-borne antenna?
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.shortwave
Date: 5 Nov 1996 14:41:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <55njn8$[e-mail]>
References: <550dp3$5i3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: galton.psycha.upenn.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31119 rec.radio.shortwave:87982

Felix ([e-mail]) wrote:
: What's a good source of infor on balloon-borne antennas for receiving?
: I'm thinking of a DXpedition to a coastal location and wondering how
: much difference a few hundred feet of vertical wire could make.
: Interested in receiving only, but everything from 30 MHz down to
: the ground. Presumably LF and VLF is where it would really make the
: difference. Can anybody advise me based on experience? Thanks!


                 *--------------------------*
                 *        WARNING!!         *
                 *--------------------------*

   DO NOT attempt this without first checking with the aviation
authorities!  Such a structure could pose serious hazards to
low-flying aircraft.

   The appropriate authorities in the United States are probably
the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC).  You local zoning commission might
also have something to say on the matter.


   One other hazard to be concerned about--what if the ballon fails,
or a wind comes up, and your wire falls across a power line?


Paul Hughett
Research Associate

Neuropsychiatry Section                       [phone] (voice)
10th floor Gates Building                     [phone] (fax)
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania
3400 Spruce Street                            [e-mail]
Philadelphia PA 19104


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:33 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!netcom.com!shealey
From: [e-mail] (Steven Healey)
Subject: WalkingStick Antenna [Q]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: antenna yagi beam
Keywords: antenna yagi beam
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:15:06 GMT
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]

Hi,
Anyone bought , tried or have an opinion on the "Walking Stick Beam" sold
by Antenna West (ad in 73, Oct. '96, p.31).
73,
Steve


--
 [e-mail]  KF6GYP
 standard disclaimers apply


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:34 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dick Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Screwdriver question
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 19:34:16 GMT
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dynip98.efn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/32.299

On Tue, 5 Nov 96 08:51:06 -0500, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>Does the screwdriver mobile antenna short out the
>unused turns of the coil or just leave them open
>circuited? I've heard one gets losses from a
>shorted coil and high voltages from an open
>coil.
>
>thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Cecil -

I can quote you what Don Johnson said about it.

"As the lower turns disappear into the lower mast they become an
integral part of that mast.  NO! - there are NO shorted turns --they
are not turns anymore.  The extremely high capacity between the
submerged turns and the lower mast at RF frequencies effectively ties
them together."

There you have it from the creator in his book, "40+5 Years of HF
Mobileering."

Dick Hughes - W6CCD


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:34 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!nntp0.brunel.ac.uk!strath-cs!bradford.ac.uk!usenet
From: EA EL-KHAZMI <eaelkhaz>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to Build A Rhombic?
Date: 5 Nov 1996 20:09:09 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <55o6t5$[e-mail]>
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Would it be possible post me the article No [e-mail] ,
[e-mail] ( Dick Hughes)?

The reason for asking that article is I am currently PhD student in rhombic
area, so I am looking any information related to my topic.



               Thank you
                Elkhazmi



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:35 1996
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From: James Lee Tabor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Communications Analysis Prediction Wizard
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 14:18:44 -0600
Organization: Kangaroo Tabor Software
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:87995 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31129 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1213 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117602

Does your propagation program "buzz" with unfamiliar terms...
FOT, dBuV, dBHz...when all you really want to know is the best
time, best band, and signal strength?

From the developers of CAPMan, comes "Wizard" for Windows. A
propagation program for busy hams. Hams that require information
without the buzzwords and the hassle of interpreting raw technical
data.

Unlike other programs, Wizard reports are smart and compact. All that
buzz stuff is eliminated.
--
Communications Analysis Prediction Wizard
http://www.wtrt.net/~ku5s/
CAPMan HF Propagation Prediction & System Analysis Software
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KU5S


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:36 1996
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From: Richard Futrell <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 16:44:45 -0500
Organization: Nando.net Public Access
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David Cooley wrote:
>
> Well,
> While looking for something else, I ran across the plans for my full
> wave vertical antenna... it can be used for any band, as equations are
> given for all dimensions... it was published in 73 magazine, August,
> 1989.  According to the article, it performs (Gain and radiation wise) "
> as good or better than a commercial 5/8 wave vertical".
> If anyone is interested, next week when I get back to work I can fax
> copies, or copy and mail out hard copy.
> 73 de N5XMT
> --
> ========================================================================
> David Cooley                AKA N5XMT                 [e-mail]
> http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
> Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
> ========================================================================
Send me a copy also. Always looking to experment with new stuff..

Richard Futrell KF4EAH
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dick Spargur)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.aluminum.baseball.bat,alt.citadel.alumni,ucb.org.alumni-scholars,alt.fan.alyssa-milano,rec.radio.amateur,sci.astro.amateur,uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc
Subject: Re: Just try this, it will work
Followup-To: alt.sex.aluminum.baseball.bat,alt.citadel.alumni,ucb.org.alumni-scholars,alt.fan.alyssa-milano,rec.radio.amateur,sci.astro.amateur,uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc
Date: 5 Nov 1996 22:14:57 GMT
Organization: Lexis-Nexis, Dayton OH
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Stephen Boltinghouse ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Take five minutes to read this and it WILL change your life.
:
    Go AWAY!  This is a sleazy pyramid scheme; the only ones who profit
    are the originators.

--

    yours,
    Richard C. Spargur (Dick)
    B5/F4


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:38 1996
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From: "John H." <"[e-mail]"@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 17:29:24 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 20
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References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55nhp9$[e-mail]>
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Bea and Marvin Jones wrote:
>
> Marc Illsley Clarke ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : >>>>> "Manning" == The Manning's <[e-mail]> writes:
> : In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> "The Manning'
s" <[e-mail]> writes:
> :     Manning> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto
> :     Manning> the tower. It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of
> :     Manning> getting the antenna to the top. thanks
> :     Manning> [e-mail]
> : I loved your post, but suspect the word you were looking for was
> : "winch", true?
>
> Which brings to mind an ad in the Denver Post many years ago:
>
>    For Sale: Jeep 4wd with 2,000 lb wench.
> *****

 I knew that ole gal!

>


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What SWR to Expect on VHF Copper J-Pole?
Date: 5 Nov 1996 17:42:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Marc Illsley Clarke) writes:

>
>I just built a copper J-Pole for VHF.  According to my MFJ-259 antenna
>analyzer, my best SWR at 146.00 MHz is 1:1.6.  This seems very high to
>me, but I have no prior experience with J-Poles.  What is a reasonable
>SWR to expect at the center of the VHF band?
>
>

Hi Marc,

The J-pole is an end fed antenna that lacks a suitable counterpoise.

Lack of a counterpoise at the base of the 1/2 wl radiator makes it very
dependent on impedance presented by the feedline, and also anything else
connected to the stub, even at the bottom.

You can check this out easy. Set the J-pole up on a wooden bench outside,
or any other non-metallic support. Put batteries in the 259 and don't plug
it in to a power supply. Connect it to the J-pole through a *very* short
feedline, keeping the 259 right at the antenna's base.

Now watch the SWR and resonant frequency change as you put your hand near
the 259 or the antennas matching stub. If you connect a few short wires to
the J-pole at the supposidly "cold" base, the SWR will change a lot.

A better antenna might be a siple 1/4 wl groundplane with drooping
radials. It'll have at least as much gain, and probably more, and be much
less sensitive to mounting or feedline attachment.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Modeling Software
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 22:53:47 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <327fc3e5.20800882@204.127.3.4>
References: <55lrka$[e-mail]> <327e793a.38859588@204.127.3.4> <55m9uu$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.116.128.144
X-No-Archive: Yes

On 5 Nov 1996 02:49:02 GMT, [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
wrote:

>In <327e793a.38859588@204.127.3.4> [e-mail] (David
>Copperhead) writes:
>>
>>I bought the NECWin-Basic for 75.00 last year and it is lame, it was
>>written in visual basic 3.0 it looks like they had a 5 year old write
>>it...I am using AWAS for windows instead. don't waste your money.
>
>    AWAS?   Where is this availiable?????
>
>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV

Analysis of Wire Antenna and Scatterers...by Artech House Publishing

http://www.artech-house.com/artech/html/catalog/book_html/0-89006-594-2.html?d
7m1c4


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:43 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Resonance and lowest Z?
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 23:02:09 GMT
Organization: Maine InternetWorks
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <327df669.91172007@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-h-8.mint.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00]

On 11/4/96 9:09AM, in message <327df669.91172007@news>, Paul Ferguson
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> Books I have read about  antennas say that resonance is at the freq
> where R is lowest.  The Autek RF Analyst manual says to use the point
> of lowest Z.
>
> This does not ring true from what I see running EZNEC on my 20 meter
> quad .I know the technical definition  of resonance is when the
> reactance goes to zero. If the
> resistance did not vary with frequency, then the frequency of minimum
> impedance would always be the resonant frequency. What I see is
> resistance changing with frequency. Below is some data from EZNEC at
> four freqs -- 13.9 Mhz, 13.95, 14.0, and 14.05 on my quad model:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>          --------------- SOURCE DATA ---------------
>
> Frequency = 13.9 MHz.
>
> Source 1      Voltage = 63.212 V. at -20.46 deg.
>               Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
>               Impedance = 59.222 - J 22.101 ohms
>               Power = 59.22 watts
>               SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.547  (112.5 ohm system) =
>               1.999
>
>
> Frequency = 13.95 MHz.
>
> Source 1      Voltage = 71.076 V. at  -6.59 deg.
>               Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
>               Impedance = 70.606 - J 8.1623 ohms
>               Power = 70.61 watts
>               SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.449  (112.5 ohm system) =
>               1.607
>
>
>
> Frequency = 14 MHz.
>
> Source 1      Voltage = 83.558 V. at   1.81 deg.
>               Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
>               Impedance = 83.517 + J 2.6373 ohms
>               Power = 83.52 watts
>               SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.673  (112.5 ohm system) =
>               1.349
>
>
> Frequency = 14.05 MHz.
>
> Source 1      Voltage = 97.039 V. at   5.73 deg.
>               Current = 1 A. at   0.00 deg.
>               Impedance = 96.555 + J 9.6817 ohms
>               Power = 96.55 watts
>               SWR (50 ohm system) =  1.957  (112.5 ohm system) =
>               1.196
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Looking at the data you can see that the reactance goes to zero a
> little below  14.0 Mhz.
>
> If I convert the rectangular coordinates to polar form, I get these
> impedances:
>
> 13.9 Mhz  Z= 63
> 13.95       Z= 71
> 14.0         Z= 83.6
> 14.05       Z= 97
>
> To find resonance using an instrument such as the Autek RF Analyst, it
> seems one must look at more than just Z. You must also check L and C
> to see where they are equal.
>
> Comments?
>
> K5ESW
>
> Paul
> [e-mail]
I am afraid you two are confusing RESISTANCE with REACTANCE. "Z" refers to REA
CTANCE,
which will change with frequency, while "R" refers to RESISTANCE , which will
not
usually vary much with frequency. Reactance does not dissipate any power, whil
e
resistance does. The ideal would be to have the reactance cancel out, leaving
a
purely resistive load....



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Want Info on building a magnetic balun.
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 23:02:17 GMT
Organization: Maine InternetWorks
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55kls9$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-h-8.mint.net
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On 11/4/96 7:56AM, in message <[e-mail]>, Steve Ellington
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> What is it? Do magnets help baluns like the do carburators?
>
>
> erwin cremers ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
> : Hello,
>
> : Is there any one who can tell me how a magnetic balun can be made and
> : how it works ??
>
> : Thanks for your reply,
>
>
> : ///////////\\\\\\\\\\
> :      Erwin Cremers
> :  Dutch Radio Operator
> :         PE1MGR
> : \\\\\\\\\\\///////////
>
>
> --
> Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky
The word "balun" is a combination of the words "balanced" and "unbalanced". Th
ere are
many types of baluns, both air core and ferrite core. Generally , they are use
d to
transform an unbalanced feed line (like coax cable) into a balanced type of fe
ed
arrangement (as is neccessary for balanced antennas like dipoles). They do thi
s by
producing two 180 - degree out of phase signals, which are then used to feed t
he two
sides of the balanced antenna. They are essentially transformers, and exhibit
many of
the properties of transformers (flux linkage, ect). Their basic function , the
n, is
to take an RF signal and split it into two separate, 180 - degree out of phase

signals. This explanation is neccessarily short, and I hope this helps your
understanding. There is a book out on the subject, which I highly recommend, c
alled
"building and using ununs and baluns". There is far more info in this book tha
n I can
relate here!



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:45 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP TITAN
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 23:02:24 GMT
Organization: Maine InternetWorks
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55ii4u$[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-h-8.mint.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00]

On 11/4/96 8:08AM, in message <[e-mail]>, Peter Frennin
g
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> [e-mail] (harold) wrote:
>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> >A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
> >the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
> >Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!
> >
> >I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
> >have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
> >Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!
> >
> >Any reply would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >Harold
> >-----------------------
> You've paid good money for it, have it and had a reason for purchasing it.
> The least you can do is to put it up and see for yourself. As always with
> antennas: your mileage will wary / the proof is in the pudding.
>
> All the pundits can do is to tell about their own experience and/or
> theoretical musings.
>
> Good luck
>
> Vy 73 de OZ1PIF
>
>
> *********************************   OZ1PIF  *****************************
> Peter Frenning, UNIX Product Mgr., Siemens-Nixdorf DK, Ph.: [phone]
> Snailmail: Dybendalsvaenget 3, 2630 Taastrup, Denmark, Fax: [phone]
>                 Email: [e-mail], (NERV: pfrenning.cph)
> X400: C=DK; A=400NET; P=SCN; O=SNI; S=Frenning; G=Peter; OU1=CPH1; OU2=CC
> ***********  Come visit us on the web; URL http://www.sni.dk  ***********
I agree, I have had the challenger for quite some time now, and find it EXCELL
ENT,
and I don`t see why the Titan would be anything less. It is a highly efficient

design, with low loss and low noise. It really is a revolution in vertical ant
enna
technology. So put it up!



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:46 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP TITAN
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 23:02:32 GMT
Organization: Maine InternetWorks
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55ii4u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-h-8.mint.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00]

On 11/3/96 11:41AM, in message <55ii4u$[e-mail]>, harold
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
> the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
> Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!
>
> I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
> have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
> Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!
>
> Any reply would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Harold
> -----------------------
>
Harold, the antenna is a highly efficient vertical, and represents a major
breakthrough in vertical antenna technology. I have had a challenger for quite
 some
time now, and find it excellent. I don`t see why the Titan would be any less o
f a
performer. It has low ground loss and low noise . Put it up!



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:47 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: importance of coax length for C.B.
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 23:02:44 GMT
Organization: Maine InternetWorks
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <552k8n$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-h-8.mint.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00]

On 10/28/96 3:11PM, in message <[e-mail]>, altavoz
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> Jim Hollenback wrote:
> >
> > Copper Penny () wrote:
> > : Can someone out there please help. Is the length of the coax for a
> > : base or a mobile setup important for the C.B. band, will it affect the
> > : swr or not.
> > : Any comments or opinions would be welcome.
> > : Thanks in advance,
> >
> > : Copper Penny.
> >
> > Contrary to some of the other posts, the lenght of the coax on a C.B.
> > band radio is extremely important. If the coax is to short the SWR
> > will be extremely high and the power at the antenna will be extremely
> > low, actually so low you won't be able to measure any power at all.
> > You will also notice that the radio is very deaf when listening.  As
> > you increase the length of the coax the SWR will suddenly drop and the
> > radio will start to operate much better and other operators will be
> > able to hear you. At this point any SWR less than 2:1 should be just fine.
> > If your anal retentive, tunning the antenna to reduce the SWR to 1:1
> > on your favorite channel will give you the warm fuzzies.
> >
> > Silver Dollar
>
>
> altavoz: This is so untech that its not worth it !
> Every post prior to this opposes your vu.
>
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________
Well, I had better install alonger coax in my mobil !!! I am only using a 10 -
 inch
coax to connect my rig, which is mounted under the roof between the visors, to
 my
ball mount, which is installed in the center of the roof of my gmc pickup !!!
I had a
funny feeling that all those guys giving me good reports were LYING....... and
 when I
could hear twice as far as the average mobil installation, i must have been
DREAMING..... I want to thank you guys for setting me straight !!!



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 18:03:36 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Now-- perpetual motion?!

My, this thread has gone bare.

Get Craven on here; I repeat again.

I bet he DOESN'T have a perpetual motion machine.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:49 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Betchy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTB: 2M and 70CM Eggbeater Antennas
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:34:51 -0500
Organization: Marine Biological Laboratory
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: WHGB6.MBL.EDU

Looking for a couple of antennas, 2M and 70CM with or without radial kit,
must be in great shape. email [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:49 1996
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From: "Bob Smith" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.electronics.equipment
Subject: BIRD 43 Help/Tutorial
Date: 5 Nov 1996 23:39:22 GMT
Organization: InternetMCI
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31130 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41842 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20811 sci.electronics.equipment:8711

Can someone kindly point me to a tutorial on the Bird 43 watt meter.  Just
got one used without a manual.  They look very simple to use.

I do have a RF Sampler fitted - what range out output does this have? -
would hate to blow my frequency meter or o-scope.!

Thanks a million for reading.

--
>>>>
Bob Smith    N3FTU
Atlanta, GA


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (nstn2527)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 5 Nov 1996 23:48:36 GMT
Organization: NSTN Navigator User
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <55ojok$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
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In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
>It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
>thanks
>[e-mail]
>
Not sure where you could get an antenna wench but I know of an equipment
dolly that may be of use around the shack.

Les



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Just try this, it will work
Date: 6 Nov 1996 00:36:49 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 1
Sender: [e-mail]
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This works too: insert head (a) into anal orifice (b).


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:52 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 20:24:43 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 81
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55opcr$[e-mail]>
References: <55nctr$[e-mail]>
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Hi Chip,

I notice you still take the high road.
In article <55nctr$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:
>
>Well Tom, as usual your information has the APPEARANCE of accuracy. But
>with your 1920 coils and your 1963 antenna articles I would say your'e
>stuck in a time warp.

Please point out the error in these articles. Where are they wrong?

>There is an extensive body of literature on DDRR's, some of which you
>alluded to.

None of which you did.

>Its pretty clear, however that this is yet ANOTHER antenna
>which you have never built, modelled , or tested--yet insist on playing
>antenna god.

I trust General Dynamics, I trust the formulas for loop antennas given by
Kraus and others, as well as the formulas for short verticals.

When I look at the DDRR reports in published technical journels, they
agree with results predicted in the formulas from the 60's and earlier.

>Gee Tom, do you thing maybe SOMEONE figured out that you can increase the
>efficiency and performance by increasing the height to 1/20 or 1/15 waves
>(instead of the --HAHAH-- 1/45 wave height that anyone whose played with
a
>DDRR knows doesn't work?)??

Sure, but let's do a test. Tell us how much loop radiation resistance of
the vertical radiator increases when the height is change that amount.
Explain mathmatically why a hat would be worse.

I can do that, can you?

>And using  better grounds than chicken wire?

General Dynamics used several grounds, one being a copper mesh >2 times
the DDRR diameter. With any system, efficiency was very poor unless the BW
was so restictive the antenna was useless.  It acts exactly like any short
top loaded vertical. With the same loss and current distribution, it has
the same BW and efficiency.

>Hmm? Why don't you mention that?

I did, just as soon as you asked. Perhaps now you see how the newsgroups
work Chip? They are not billboards for staing opinion, they are discussion
groups. In general, someone makes a statement and other persons agree (and
remain quiet) or they challangethe statement. The missing data is
supplied, the statement is clarified, and any mistakes are brought out in
the open.

Mature adults involved in these discussions generally avoid personal
comments, and confine themselves to the technical issues. This is the
beauty of newsgroups, it's a two way street. Everyone is free to ask
questions. Learning is enhanced, accuracy is strengthened, and knowlege is
compounded. The true facts usually remain, and folklore is usually tossed
out on its' ear.

That isn't to say socially disadvantaged individuals don't appear from
time to time and throw a monkey wrench in the process, but generally
someone will try to guide them gently back into the way things work. If
that doesn't work time generally does, and eventually the fraudulent or
emotionally challanged person fits in or is so embarrassed or humiliated
by his own silly comments he leaves.

With all that in mind, I wonder if you could post the claims made for
DDRR's that you find in disagreement with the references I gave, and the
technical reasons for those claims.

Apparently you disagree with the ananlysis that treats the DDRR as a short
vertical radiator in series with a horizontal loop antenna? Is that
correct?

Just what do these articles claim?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:53 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 6 Nov 1996 01:42:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55oqen$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <55ojok$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca12-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  7:42:47 PM CST 1996

In <55ojok$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (nstn2527) writes:
>
>In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] says...
>>
>>Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
>>It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the
top.
>>thanks
>>[e-mail]
>>
>Not sure where you could get an antenna wench but I know of an
equipment
>dolly that may be of use around the shack.
>
>Les
>

    Les,  "antenna wench" has produced more belly-laughs and chuckles
than anything I've read recently.  And, now we have a "dolly" ...
adding more chuckles!

    Does this show what "sexist pigs" men really are?  <ggg>
In San Francisco, it's prima facie evidence of same <g> ...
a societal attitude I abhor.

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV   San Francisco, CA


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:54 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What SWR to Expect on VHF Copper J-Pole?
Date: 6 Nov 1996 02:24:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <55ostp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca12-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  8:24:57 PM CST 1996

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marc
Illsley Clarke) writes:
>
>I just built a copper J-Pole for VHF.  According to my MFJ-259 antenna
>analyzer, my best SWR at 146.00 MHz is 1:1.6.  This seems very high to
>me, but I have no prior experience with J-Poles.  What is a reasonable
>SWR to expect at the center of the VHF band?
>

Marc-

    With the proper tap point on the 1/4 w section, you should be
able to make 1.1 to 1 or even such better.  Bandwidth vswr should be
less than 2:1 over 144 to 148 MHz.  The MFJ may vary in its
measurements (things get critical here) but a reliable vswr meter
(a Bird) will show comparable numbers to what I'ce cited.

    This is not to say that there won't be _some_ feedline outer
conductor currents (as postulated by others) but the minimal amounts
do NOT contribute to severe vertical pattern (radiation) distortion.
The effects of magnitude and phase of these are often (intentially)
avoided by erstwhile theorists.

    A well matched J-pole is a very good, low v-angle vhf radiator for
amateur needs.

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV   San Francisco, CA



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:55 1996
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From: [e-mail](TIMOTHY P KERBER)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.swap
Subject: FS:  Kenwood TM733 Dual band mobile
Date: 6 Nov 1996 02:35:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <55oti4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: col-sc1-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  8:35:48 PM CST 1996
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31164 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41880 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20839 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117674 rec.radio.swap:94023

Hello and thanx for reading this message.

I have a mint condition Kenwood TM 733   2m/440 dual band
50/35 watts, with detachable face.

Included is the $100.00 separation kit, external duplexer, external
speaker, and mobile antena (dual band), new $15.00 packet data cable
(1200/9600 bps capable), original box, and manual.
  I still have the registration card in the box.

I am asking $550.00 obo.  I am a very motivated seller, and this would
make a great Christmas gift!

REPLY ONLY TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS:  [e-mail]
             OR
Telephone  [phone]

Thank you
Tim   N7unh/4


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:56 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:54:31 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 83
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John Hill wrote:
>
> Help me out here. I thought I understood feeding loops,
> but this scenario has me confounded. Imagine this setup:
>
> A 40M loop consisting of a perfect square suspended vertically
> from a 55 ft. tower, standing on its corner (diamond-like). Points
> up, down, left and right. Feedpoint is the left corner. Coax runs
> straight in to the tower, then down to a multiple antenna switch
> at the base, then through buried coax to the shack.
>              .|.
>        .      |        .
>     .         |          .
>   .           |            .
> o------------|              .
>    .          |            .
>       .       |          .
>         .     |        .
>              .|.
>  -------------------------
>
> 1) First attempt to feed. 1:1 current balun wound with 50 ohm
>    coax through 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1,
>    resistance 50 ohm read at the base of the tower with an MFJ
>    antenna analyzer. I know this is not a precision instrument,
>    but I've used it in past experiments with antennas, and it
>    works fairly well.
>
> 2) Second attempt to feed. Same current balun to 1/4 wave RG-11,
>    to 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1, resistance
>    50 ohm read at base of tower.
>
> 3) Third attempt to feed. New current balun wound with 1/4 wave
>    of RG-59 to 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1,
>    resistance 100 ohm read at base of tower.
>
> Arrgh!
>
> What am I doing wrong? It listens very well on low angle incoming
> signals. I failed to mention that the 2:1 SWR was the lowest I
> could get and it fell pretty much at the frequency I expected
> (7.005) using the conventional 1005/f formula. I have put up
> delta loops off of this tower before, apex up, bottom about 8 ft.
> off of the ground and fed them 1/4 wave down from the apex using
> the 1:1 current balun and same run of 50 ohm coax to the tower and
> down with a perfect 1:1 SWR, resistance 50 ohm before. I just wanted
> to try a different setup.
>
> Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance...John, NJ0M

Hi John,

Nothing works as it is supposed to do :)

Since most feedpoints are out of reach I usually measure feedpoint
impedance by using a 1/2 wave length coax (*Velocity) without anything
else. At the coax end I am "sure" that I have the Z of the antenna and
not some coax transformed value. When I am sure that the antenna is
tuned I add a balun.

A loop is generally in the 120/140 ohms range and I use 1/4 wave RG59
followed by 50 ohms. I then coil the RG59 NEAR THE FEED POINT and make
6 to 10 loops 10 inches diameter and tape the whole thing. In your case
the balun is not near the feed point and you have a nice L section
which could create problems.

This solution is too visible and problematic in the wind so I also used
a 2in toroid (power supply type) and made baluns by running the coax 5/6
times through the toroid. Seems to work Okay.

In you case you should check if you don't have capacitive coupling with
the tower at the top (bottom). Since you attack the diamond on a side
corner the "high voltage" points are there and these are very sensible
to capacitive coupling. You can immediatly see that if you are able to
feed at the bottom/top and get a lower SWR.

Finally, why not a Delta loop fed 1/3 from bottom corner ?

-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: DDRR
Date: 5 Nov 1996 22:04:14 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55ov7e$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Tom's comments (FROM CTHA THREAD)

Tom, any idiot with half a brain knows that the DDRR is a loaded vertical.
 Its not a stretch to assume that I can model, build and read that for
myself--and have a  long time ago. What's your problem? You want a
reference? GO BUY MOXON's book ('HF Antennas for All Occassions'); that
will get you started.

The DDRR is NOT in Kraus's book, despite your claim. Nope; its not in
Balanis, either (say, new edition out--lotsa new stuff in there... but I
guess you don't want to keep up...)

If you ever BUILT a DDRR you'd realize that you need them at least  0.05
waves or greater height. Since you DON'T know this I would say your
knowledge of the DDRR is virtually ZIPPO. Again, if it ain't something
that uses nice, shiny loading  coils or caps, you don't like it. Also, it
should be straight as an arrow!

1/45 waves! HAHAHA! Watta joke!  But that's what your'e saying.
It seems to me you're just repeating the lousy ARRL info. (I suppose you
want a reference on the 'tailpipe special'...)

But you are incapable of admitting this. So why should anyone take your
assertions as anything better than --shall we say incomplete-- knowledge
at best ??

Say, have you tried buying some NEW books lately? May I suggest
www.amazon.com? Maybe this will help you transcend your isolation: don't
have to trudge  off to the library or the big city bookstore or
university.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:52:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 22:06:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55ovbn$[e-mail]>
References: <55onvn$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Tom's 'beeefy' comments

Yes Tom, some antennas aren't straight lines with nice, shiny 1920's
coils. The question is: why should IAS --the CTHA folks--(for example)
give a hoot what YOU think? Hmm? What makes YOU so important?

As for the Unihat ads, I would be interested in reading them and studying
the antenna. Sounds interesting, and I'm keeping an open mind. And if I DO
find something wrong, I will provide my colleague with an opportunity to
learn and correct.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:00 1996
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Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: altavoz
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: "Kenneth D. Grimm" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 19:10:36 -0800
References: <[e-mail]> <55ka7i$[e-mail]>
Organization: Sweet Briar College
Nntp-Posting-Host: 192.149.94.11
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W8JI Tom wrote:
>
> Maybe everyone would be better off if Albatross was just totally ignored?
>
> He seems to enjoy some pretty weird groups. If I was Paul Lee, I'd ask him
> NOT to support me!!!!!
>
> Tom

I think if Paul were still amongst us mortals, he would do that and
probably a great deal more!

73,
Ken
--
___________________________________________________________

       Kenneth D. Grimm                 K4XL
       [e-mail]
___________________________________________________________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 22:11:30 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55ovl2$[e-mail]>
References: <55onvn$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

Since Roy has sent a gracious invitation to Craven to discuss the CTHA, we
might assume he'll be joining us sometime. Perhaps we might be on our best
behavior to greet a stranger and not assume he's a village idiot (as this
initial stranger was treated by a certain individual).

Let him tell us about the antenna; not the press release.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:03 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: 6 Nov 1996 03:28:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <55p0l9$[e-mail]>
References: <55eenh$[e-mail]> <55ol2e$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca12-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  9:28:41 PM CST 1996

In <55ol2e$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:
>
>In article <55eenh$[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:
>
>>   Hi Tom-
>>
>>    OK, if not a Wilskenson power divider (or similar), then what
steps
>>do you take to assure equal element currents?  Yes, mutual coupling
>>does make the whole problem difficult but, it seems to me, that
>>changing the element spacing just sets up a new set of problematic
>>conditions with mutuals.  This is not mentioned in this and your
prior
>>posts.
>>
>>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV
>
>Let me try again.
>
>I watch the null depth. That is the true test because no combination
of
>phase shift that will produce a deep null without nearly equal
radiation
>from each element. If the elements are perfectly symmetrical that
means
>equal current.
>
>I do this with a delay line and impedance and phase shifting circuits.
A
>power divider is a waste of time, it gurantees nothing and allows no
>adjustment.
>
>With end fire, closer spacing increases loss, and wider spacing
decreases
>directivity. I split the difference.
>
>73 Tom

    Dammit!  Why do you COMPLETELY avoid what I said and asked
in my previous follow-up post?  By _neatly_ (or is it "cutsily"
obliterating the key questions of my previous post.

    I will take time to cool-off, sir ...sir ...sir!

    -=Tony=-



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 03:34:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <55p110$[e-mail]>
References: <55onvn$[e-mail]> <55ovl2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca12-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  9:34:56 PM CST 1996

In <55ovl2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fractenna)
writes:
>
>Since Roy has sent a gracious invitation to Craven to discuss the
CTHA, we
>might assume he'll be joining us sometime. Perhaps we might be on our
best
>behavior to greet a stranger and not assume he's a village idiot (as
this
>initial stranger was treated by a certain individual).
>
>Let him tell us about the antenna; not the press release.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

    THANK YOU CHIP!  You are a clear thinker and true gentleman
in my book.  Hopefully Craven will accept Roy's invitation.
We need it.

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:06 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to build a 800MHz Yagi?
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 03:42:10 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <328008fc.38490568@204.127.3.4>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55l3un$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: 127.0.0.10
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.116.128.236
X-No-Archive: Yes

 (Yagi Design 10 element 830 MHz )
  CENTER FREQUENCY  =  830  MHz
  GAIN              = 13.9 dBi
  DRIVE IMPEDANCE   =  200 OHMS (APPROX), WITH FOLDED DIPOLE D.E.
  BOOM LENGTH:
     REFLECTOR TO
     LAST DIRECTOR  =   2.56 FT  =   30.7 IN. =   78.0 CM
  BOOM DIAMETER     =  0.375 IN. =   0.95 CM

  TOTAL NUMBER OF ELEMENTS =  10
  ELEMENT DIAMETERS:
     DRIVEN           ANY DIAMETER
     PARASITIC      = 0.125 IN. = 0.32 CM

  Elements pass through and are NOT insulated from a metal boom


   CUMULATIVE                         ELEMENT
    SPACING                                 LENGTH
    -------------                                   --------------
   CM        IN.                                              CM   IN.
   Ref        Ref  REFL ----------|----------      17.80    7.01
   7.81   3.07 D.E.=========|========= 17.05   6.71
 10.75     4.23      D 1     --------|--------       16.09       6.34
  16.74      6.59     D 2    --------|--------       15.87       6.25
  24.51      9.65     D 3    --------|--------       15.67       6.17
  33.55    13.21     D 4    --------|--------       15.48       6.09
  43.57    17.16     D 5    --------|--------       15.31       6.03
  54.40    21.42     D 6    --------|--------       15.17       5.97
  65.90    25.94     D 7    --------|--------       15.04       5.92
  77.99    30.70     D 8    --------|--------       14.93       5.88











From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:06 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David Copperhead)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical Polarization
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:05:37 GMT
Organization: ...
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <32800df2.39761449@204.127.3.4>
References: <5472mv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: 127.0.0.10
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.116.128.236
X-No-Archive: Yes

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:56:32 GMT, [e-mail] (James) wrote:

>Why is it that Commercial broadcast stations, both radio and TV
>(AM&FM, audio, video) use vertically polarized antenna's, yet the
>high-gain beam/Yagi's available to consumers (Radio shack, ect) for
>their TV's and FM radios are horizontally polarized elements?
>-Just a thought that popped into my head while in the 'loo....
>-pylon
>
>
Simply change the polarization by mounting your yagi 90 degrees...but
I'm sure you knew that...didn't quite get your point.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:07 1996
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From: [e-mail](Stanley D Gruver)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,
Subject: Satellite Receiver  FOR SALE   ***CHEAP****
Date: 6 Nov 1996 04:06:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <55p2rg$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tul-ok7-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05 10:06:08 PM CST 1996
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:117651 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31158 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1219

USED

Toshiba TRX 80 with VC2+      $275
Panasonic 4500 with VC2+      $275
Chaparral Feedhorn            $ 20
Norsat 35-40 degree LNB       $ 20
Von Weise 24" actuator        $ 25
VC2+ descrambler              $150

Receiver/VC2+/feedhorn/LNB/actuator/new 7.5' Perfect 10 mesh dish

Complete system for only $500

E-mail reply please

Thanks,  Maura



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Karthaus)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: UNid African 6712 kHz 0338 Nov5
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:58:34 GMT
Organization: totalnet
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <55mhjo$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: jxk@199.166.230.69
NNTP-Posting-Host: elysium25.magic.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Unid African 6712 Tuned in at 0338 UTC Nov 5, playing American pop
music and in
vernacular. One mention of Tanzania. At 0400 news in English followed
by more
pop music and vernacular. At 0410 interview in English. Possible ID at
0430.
Program continued in vernacular. Audio too muddy for ID.




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news.hal-pc.org!conchbbs!1492!charles.mccurdy
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mccurdy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Test
Date: 06 Nov 96 01:44:44
Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: conchbbs.com

This is just a test

--
|Fidonet:  Charles Mccurdy 1:106/1492
|Internet: [e-mail]
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:10 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.genuity.net!news.lafn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jimmy Navarro)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ELECTRONICS TIMES publisher is sick?
Date: 6 Nov 1996 07:28:02 GMT
Organization: L A Free Net
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <55pem2$[e-mail]>
References: <55hmv4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55lmo4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.13.6
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:117683 rec.radio.amateur.policy:42801 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31169 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19972 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1225 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41886 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20841 rec.radio.amateur.space:8743

I leave in Eagle Rock and always used the MARS repeater using high
power mobile rig.  Lately I can't even make a call.  You people are the
ones who are suppose to go to 222 MHz because those people got their
first. I too got intimimated with that QST, gave a call to one of MARS
people, it's phony.  I wouldn't even give a damn to SCARA or whoever in
that Santiago Peak group.  Oh well, Mr. Dengler, KE6TZF is Sunset Ridge
Repeater group.  You're one of those people jamming.  I was wondering
may be you people are getting a lot high power RF's being radiated
right in your head like those guys at 147.435?  If you've been using
MARS 446.650, would this mess will make you happy?  I should say 73 but
don't which is appropriate this time.  May be KJ6TQ would no better...
 (=:
:DE KE6FPK
In article <55lmo4$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
says...
>
>In <[e-mail]>, Tim Hynde <[e-mail]> writes:
>>>James Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Mercado or KM6NP, who publishes the Electronics Times, even
>>> installed transmitter just for the purpose of jamming KJ6TQ
>>> operations and periodically broadcast warning to KJ6TQ repeater's
>>> users.
>>>
>>> Ham radio operators pride themselves in being polite.  Yeah right!
>>
>>Well, there are still plenty of gentlemen operators left.
>>
>>.... and all that wide open space on 6m and 220 MHz ??...
>
>Excuse me, 'wide open space' on 222 MHz?  Then why did the last 220
SMA meeting
>feature a hearing due to a denial of freq. coordination to a repeater
on Blue
>Ridge, and why were there 2 freq. coordinators on 222 MHz in So. Cal.
for a
>while?  The 222 MHz band may not be used as much as 2 meters, but it's
stuffed
>full of repeaters.  There is some room on 6m, but it's awfully noisy.
>
>I'm not sure we can blame Mike for the mess on 446.65.  He is only a
pawn of
>SCRRBA, which apparently decided that the frequency shall not have an
'open'
>repeater on it.  The 'warning' transmitter cites references to SCRRBA
>coordination, but makes no mention of possible coordination of KJ6TQ
by other
>freq. coordination entities, so it is not accurate to say that any
other
>repeater on the freq. is uncoordinated.
>
>Bob NO6B (KE6TZF)
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
KE6TZF      SUNSET RIDGE REPEATER GROUP             LIC ISU 15-MAY-1995
CLUB        P. O. BOX 412                           LIC EXP 15-MAY-2005
            WALNUT               CA  91788-0412     LST UPD 15-MAY-1995
NO6B        DENGLER, ROBERT J                        IS RESPONSIBLE

NO6B               DENGLER, ROBERT J                LIC ISU 27-OCT-1987
EXTRA              10946 KANE AVE                   LIC EXP 27-OCT-1997
DOB  4-JUL-1963    WHITTIER             CA  90604   LST UPD 27-OCT-1987
                   (PREVIOUSLY WA6ZGQ, ADVANCED)



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.vol.it!news
From: [e-mail] (Guido Sansoni)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Richiesta INFO "ALL" PKW
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 07:33:17 GMT
Organization: Video On Line
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <55pf0e$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55a6b7$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.166.32.131
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Fractenna) wrote:

>Can someone translate this, at least roughly?

>Thanks!

>Chip N1IR

Sure! here is the transaltion (more or less, my english not really
good :-(  ).
Can someone explain me how does work an antenna made by "PKW", model
"ALL" ?
It seems to be a 7,5 meters vertical pipe divided from earth by a
balum :-) (no earth plane)
73
           Swl I0382/rm Guido

 ---------------------------------------------------------------
| Guido Sansoni                   | Tel. [phone]     |
| 6, Via Alga Marina              | Fax  [phone]     |
| 00040  LAVINIO LIDO DI ENEA     | e-mail: [e-mail] |
| Rome - Italy                    |                             |
 ----------------- PGP PUBLIC KEY ON KEYSERVERS ----------------



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (larry wolken)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.electronics.equipment
Subject: Re: BIRD 43 Help/Tutorial
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 07:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <55p372$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbcb72$93899c00$01a447cc@desktop> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rvl-md7-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  8:12:18 PM PST 1996
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31153 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41867 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20828 sci.electronics.equipment:8720

[e-mail] (Tom Dunn) wrote:


>> Can someone kindly point me to a tutorial on the Bird 43 watt meter.  Just
>> got one used without a manual.  They look very simple to use.
>>
>> I do have a RF Sampler fitted - what range out output does this have? -
>> would hate to blow my frequency meter or o-scope.!
>>
>> Thanks a million for reading.
>>

>> Bob Smith    N3FTU
>> Atlanta, GA

>Bob: If you have the Bird model 4430 with interal sample port coming out
>the side. The specs from Bird catalog are "RF coupling -53db from 512MHz
>to 10Mhz, decreasing to -70db between 10MHz and 2MHZ". If you have the
>sampler that bolts in series with the coupler model 4275 (20-1000MHz) or
>model 4273 (1.5-30MHz) the  coupling is adjustable from -35db to -70db,
>with quite a bit of roll off(less coupling) as you go lower in frequency.
>73  Tom WB6IQD   [e-mail]

Howdy Bob --

Bird takes their customer service seriously.  They're a great
corporation.  Just give them a call in Solon (Cleveland) Ohio and
request an operator's manual.  They will very likely send you one
cheaply or free -- just make sure to have the model number.

BTW you won't hurt your scope or counter just plug it in and go to
town.





From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jacek Janusz)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: TITAN DX -- more info, please...
Date: 6 Nov 1996 08:29:38 GMT
Organization: University of Mining and Metallurgy
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <55pi9i$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linux.uci.agh.edu.pl
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 960713]




Hi!

I am planning to buy the vertical antenna - TITAN DX for all
amateur HF bands. Can you tell me more about this antenna?
Have anybody of you got this antenna? Is there on the Internet
a homepage of producer of this antenna?

Best wishes to all, 73!

Jacek  SP9NWB.

[[e-mail]]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!drn
From: John  ZL1AH
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP - TITAN  ANTENNA
Date: 6 Nov 1996 01:06:04 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <55pkds$[e-mail]>
References: <55ll89$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: johnw.enternet.co.nz
X-No-Archive: Yes

In article <55ll89$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>A short time ago I purchased a Gap Titan antenna, and it's still in
>the box !!!            Since the purchase I understand that whilst the
>Gap Challenger has good reports, the Titan has received bad one's !!!
>
>I would be gratefull if anyone has any information they could let me
>have, good or bad, about the Titan, because I am wondering whether the
>Titan is worth putting up !!!!!!!
>
>Any reply would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Harold
>email: [e-mail]
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (RWigg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wire 2m dipole antenna
Date: 6 Nov 1996 04:08:38 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55pkim$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Max is looking for:
>I've heard about dipoles (2m) build using a shielded cable, where the
shield is >extracted and acts as radial and the "hot" inner cable as
radiator,

Use RG-58 (because it's easier to work with).  Strip the outer insulator
approx. 0.5" longer than chart.

Mhz     Length        Measure down the following length and force open the
braid
------------------       bend the the cable to expose the center conductor
and inner
  52     54"              insulator and pull the middle out through the
braid.
146     19.2"
223     12.5"
445       6.3"          I found this from "Bob Simpleton's guide to
quickie antennas                              in the Amateur Radio Trader.
Good luck with both Amateur Radio and landing, I hear that's the hardest
part of paragliding!
Ron KE6UDO


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:18 1996
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:05:20 +1100
From: "Paul Demarchi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: deep fringe uhf tv reception
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <01bbcbca.046e7240$3239868b@default>
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1085
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.57.50
Lines: 6
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I am endeavouring to home brew uhf beam antennas suitable for deep fringe
tv reception. Would appreciate information on available texts and
consruction details. I know there are some computer programs for
determining element dimensions etc
--
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 6 Nov 1996 06:57:29 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 59
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55puf9$[e-mail]>
References: <55ov7e$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Chip.
In article <55ov7e$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:

>Tom, any idiot with half a brain knows that the DDRR is a loaded
vertical.

I take it, by the description in the above comment, you know the DDRR is a
top loaded vertcal? ;-)

> Its not a stretch to assume that I can model, build and read that for
>myself--and have a  long time ago.

What changes did you measure with the DDRR when the radiator height was
doubled?
Did it track theory? What type of groundplane and radiator did you use?

>The DDRR is NOT in Kraus's book, despite your claim.

You must not have read carefully Chip. Here's what I said:

In article <55m4e5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:
>One reference is in Dr. John Kuecken's "Antenna's and Transmission
Lines",
>where he describes shipboard antennas like the Hairpin Monopole. The DDRR
>(AKA Hula Hoop Antenna) is described as an "inefficient radiator".
Kuecken
>says "In this antenna an unbalanced conductor above ground is used to top
>load a short vertical radiator. The principle radiation is vertical, and
>due to large resonant currents in vertical section."

John Kuecken, not Kraus.

>If you ever BUILT a DDRR you'd realize that you need them at least  0.05
>waves or greater height.

OK, so now we have a 1/16th wl vertical. I agree a 1/16th wl vertical
would be much better tand a 1/45th wl vertical. After all size is very
important when efficiency is the goal. There's no way to cheat on that.

>Since you DON'T know this I would say your
>knowledge of the DDRR is virtually ZIPPO.

No, I understand that very well. I simply thought you were implying the
DDRR was more efficient than any other well designed top loaded vertical
of the same height.

>1/45 waves! HAHAHA! Watta joke!  But that's what your'e saying.
>It seems to me you're just repeating the lousy ARRL info. (I suppose you
>want a reference on the 'tailpipe special'...)

Actually not, I was using data General Dynamics published.

>But you are incapable of admitting this.

Woops, you spoke too soon!

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:20 1996
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From: Merv Stump <"[e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AWAS
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:22:39 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <55q3e0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.146.34.118
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; I)

Someone, (I can't remember who) posted a response to my query on antenna
software for Windows and suggested AWAS.  I looked at the URL you gave,
found a demo copy and downloaded, but attempting to execute results in a
message saying I am missing the WIREDLL.  I've searched for this, but
can't find it.  If whoever gave me the info to began with (or anyone
else for that matter) can help, I would appreciate it.

Thanks, Merv


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:21 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need longwire design info
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 96 08:31:30 -0500
Organization: Delphi ([e-mail] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
X-To: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>

Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]> writes:

>Best idΘa is to buy an antenna handbook e.g. ARRL Antenna Handbook.

That's a good idea. But the best idea is to buy an
antenna modeling program like EZNEC which is only
about double the price of a Handbook. EZNEC can
answer all these questions and more, in real time.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:21 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: DDRR
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:45:00 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com

Still curious to know your results on DDRR--at any height.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:22 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Planar inverted F Antenna --PIFA
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:45:58 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com

Looking for user comments on this antenna. What height-foorprint, etc.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David McLean)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for good Tnc Software!!
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:46:12 GMT
Organization: DFW Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <55q4r4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dfw.dfw.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

Hello All:

        I am looking for a good program to use on my tnc. If you have any
let me know. Thnaks!!!


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:24 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Dielectric Resonator Antennas
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:47:01 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com

Looking for user feedback on these antennae.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:25 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Superconducting Arrays
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:48:07 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com

Anyone have any info on successful SA's? Curious to know if they're
practical yet.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:26 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best loaded Dipole
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:50:18 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com

Hi--

Curious to know thoughts on 'best' loaded system for a dipole; say 0.235
waves in greatest dimension. Fat dipole--center load a candidate; what
have YOU found?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 6 Nov 1996 14:57:50 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin 2
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac08.pearse.pclab.tcd.ie

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT WILL OUTPERFORM AN ANTRON 99 ANTENNA IN TERMS OF
D.B. GAIN.
IS ANYONE USING A BETTER OMNI-DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA?
Many Thanks....


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:27 1996
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From: "Dick Reeve(TEMP-Test Area Tech)" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MFJ hf antenna
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:05:02 -0700
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55nmel$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I have been thinking about purchasing either an R5 or R7 multi-band
> vertical.  I just heard about MFJ's 1796 and 1798 antennas.  Has anyone had
> experience with the above MFj antennas?  How do either of them compare to
> the R5-R7 antennas?
>
> Bob, KD8LR
> [e-mail]
I have also been looking at the same antenna's. I want a multiband
that I can use at home and with my RV in the desert. Does anyone have
any experience with the MFJ antenna's?


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:28 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need longwire design info
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 07:59:55 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

Dan Kruger wrote:
> 1) Will a full wavelength (or longer) antenna outperform a smaller one
> (1/2 or 1/4 wave)?

Assuming enough height on the antenna, a full wavelength will have more
gain and less beamwidth than a half or quarter wavelength, ie, a full
wavelength is more directional which can be good or bad depending on
what direction one wants to receive. You probably won't be able to tell
the difference on a good communications receiver. But remember, a full
wavelength is a full wavelength on one and only one frequency.

> 2) If I go with a full wavelength (or longer) antenna, how do I calculate
> the length for a given frequency?

Approximately 936 (or more) divided by frequency in MHz.

> 3) Is there any benefit to sloping, dog legging, inverted L, making a loop,
etc?

Bending changes the directivity to receive more signals, including wanted
and unwanted signals.

> 4) How should I orient the antenna: parallel or perpendicular to the canyon?

For one wavelength or less, broadside to the desired station you want
to receive.

> 5) What's the best kind of wire to use? I've used stranded copper without
> insulation before, but can't seem to find it in lengths longer than 50ft.

Doesn't matter much for receiving.

> 6) Is there any benefit to a center-fed vs. an end-fed set-up?

Communications receivers are so good that it's hard to tell the
difference. Losses in the receiving antenna system affect noise
and signal alike. Transmitting is another matter.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best loaded Dipole
Date: 6 Nov 1996 11:01:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55qcpj$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

Okay Chip, I'll take the bait on this one.

In my opinion, for a loaded dipole radiator of 1/4 wavelength and longer,
capacitive end-loading provides the lowest loss and best bandwidth
performance (ref: Comm Quarterly Summer '96, Tech  Notes).  At lower
frequencies, as this loading method becomes less practical for structural
reasons, a combination of capacitive and inductive loading may be
indicated.  In any case, to ensure optimum efficiency, inductive loading
should be minimized in all cases--and positioning lumped inductive
elements near the physical center (or high current) portion of the
radiator should be avoided.  If loading coils must be used for mechanical
reasons, then the positioning and Q of these elements will have a strong
influence on how well the antenna performs (see Charlie Michaels' short
dipole article, Comm Quart Summer '92 - p73 for data).

Rick --  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Bruss)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner
Subject: Minimum curve radius for 9913 coax?
Date: 6 Nov 1996 16:33:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <55qelg$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: boris.ucdavis.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31152 rec.radio.scanner:70016

What is the minimum curve radius for 9913 type cable (actually, it's
9086)?  I have the impression that if it is bent too sharply, its RF
characteristics change a lot for the worse.  Does anyone make BNC
connectors for this cable or will I have to use a 259/BNC adapter?

Mike


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:45:01 -0500
Organization: Anderson Desktop Publishing
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dcc02685.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v1.01

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
> I think that Altavoz is pulling your collective chains and getting some
> borderline personalities to cross the demarcation that seperates civil
> behaviors from the demented stuff we hear on 20m & 80m. I suggest
> that you all rewind and try to start afresh with a new topic, not one where
> someone continually skirts reality just to get a rise out of you.
>
> The intensity of responses flashing back and forth is ruining this group
> for those that do not share your love for words like stupid, idiot, and
> "worse". Too many people hide behind the Berkeley phrase of the 90's -
> FLAMING - for child-like responses. It is simply something that no one
> should tolerate, nor participate in.
>
> Dick  N3HKN  Pittsburgh, PA.
>
>
>
Well said, Dick.

                 I've been in this hobbie for 35 years and it
constantly amazes me how people have developed such aggressive
attitudes. Not that things were perfect in "the good ole days", but I
believe that there is far more animosity around today. This is a hobby
folks ... and as corny as it may sound, amateur radio has always
considered itself a fraternal organization.
--
Barry Anderson K3SUI
Frederick, MD. 21702
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (N1BWT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: N connectors
Date: 6 Nov 1996 16:57:46 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 38
Sender: [e-mail] ()
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <55qg2a$v7c$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: kali.enet.dec.com



>bob puharic <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<55e8me$[e-mail]>...
> "Bob Smith" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Are those new N connectors that look like PL259's OK.  I have a few and
> >they pretty easy to work with.  But then again the standard ones now
seem
> >just as easy to use.
>
> >Thanks and 73 de Bob.
>
> N connectors are a pain in the ass. I just spent a few hours at 100'
> for the K3ANS contest station replacing the female end of an N on
> rg213. the female side had splayed out and became intermittent even
> though it was nailed down pretty tight. And they are supposed to be
> loose...if you can rotate them thats no problem. but they are a drag
> to maintain.
>
>

I think there is a problem here.  if the connector is loose, there is
dubious contact to the braid, and it will wear away if it keeps
rotating.  no wonder you have maintenance problems.

when I make the standard N connectors, I grab them and twist hard to
make sure they are tight, and they stay on.  ( on cheap coax without
much braid, they are always loose)

I've also trained new techs by handing them the pieces that twist
apart; they get the idea.

as for the new N connectors, I've always hated PL259s and pouring
solder blindly into a hole while melting the dielectric, so I
can't comment objectively.

paul N1BWT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:35 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news
From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Balloon-borne antenna?
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:57:19 -0500
Organization: Utter Chaos
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <550dp3$5i3$[e-mail]> <55njn8$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31202 rec.radio.shortwave:88077

First, Hugh Caron's post concerning static charges on the balloon wire
are accurate.  I was one of the guys he spoke about and, yes, when
flying
kites with a wire antenna, one must be extremely careful to bleed off
the
static charge.  My friend Tony, was practically thrown across the deck
of his boat when he touched the ungrounded wire on one of our kite-
antenna experiments.

Two: Helium is much easier to buy and transport than hydrogen.  It may
not be cheaper, but at least you don't get anything close to the
HAZMAT paperwork you'd get if it were hydrogen.

Three: Although latex balloons do deflate more readily than, say, mylar
balloons, the surface area to size ratio of an eight foot weather
balloon will guarantee that it will stay up for quite a while.

Four: The FAA's relevant regulation on this subject of tethered kites
and balloons is Part 105.  When I last read it three years ago, it
said that anything with a total weight of under five pounds empty is
exempt from most regulations.

You do have to know where the airports are, and don't fly your kite
or balloon where it may get in the way.  A call to the local Flight
Standards District Office (in the United States) will go a long way
toward clarifying whether the place and altitudes you wish to fly
the antenna are appropriate.  Even if you might fly it so high that
it could interfere, they'd be more than willing to accomodate you by
issuing a NOTAM, or NOtice To AirMen, with adequate notice, and then
issue you a permit for a certain time and place.

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:36 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!niven.ksc.nasa.gov!usenet
From: "Roger E. Koss" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 6 Nov 1996 18:29:09 GMT
Organization: I-NET Space Services
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <55qldl$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 163.205.78.66
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

How does one tell if they have an antenna wench ? I know serving wenches
used to be easy to spot...low cut blouse and a tray of food or drinks.
Does an antenna wench wear a climbing harness and carry insulators or
loading coils ? ;^)
                                      73 de Roger, KD4ITU

"The Manning's" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
>It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
>thanks
>[e-mail]
>




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:38 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.structured.net!crusty.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx11-19
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 18:32:47 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <55qlkl$[e-mail]>
References: <55irj7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx11-19.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <55irj7$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) wrote:
>
>       There seems to be some confusion of language in this string.
>       First we must differentiate between a quarter wave antenna
>that is a full quarter wave length long, and one which is shortened to
>produce a purely resistive feed-point impedance.  An infinitely thin
>quarter-wave length antenna has a feedpoint impedance of about
>36.6 + j 22.5.  Finite thickness antennas have somewhat lower
>values.  They are customarily made somewhat shorter than a quarter
>wave length to make the input impedance purely resistive.  This
>might then be called more properly a "resonant quarterwave".  At
>greater lengths the feedpoint has an inductive reactance and at
>shorter lengths a capacitive reactance.
>       A resonant quarter wave vertical over a good ground or
>ground plane system usually has feedpoint impedance lower than
>the commonly used 50 ohm coax.
>       One way to transform the feedpoint impedance up to 50
>ohms is to use an Lnet between it and the coax. . . .

With a perfect ground system, a resonant vertical of typical diameter will
have a feedpoint resistance of around 36 ohms. (A very fat one will be a
little lower.) This would cause an SWR of 1.4:1 on a feeding 50 ohm line.
Ground loss will raise the feedpoint resistance, lowering the SWR. (Unless
the ground system is very poor. With one "radial" -- the feedline itself --
the resistance is unlikely to be much above 80 ohms, or 1.6:1 SWR for 50
ohm feedline.) So why bother with a matching network?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best loaded Dipole
Date: 6 Nov 1996 13:51:15 -0500
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RE: Rick's comments.

Ok; nice answer.

Could you suggest some typical field strength values; BW value; match to
50 ohms? How fat is your dipole? In other words, if some other approach
was seeking to better the fat, loaded dipole, what numbers would you want
to beat?

Thanks!

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 18:56:22 GMT
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I frequently see newsgroup postings out of order, and haven't seen the
original posting yet. But I saw a posting with some of the exchange
between Tony and Tom.

The Wilkinson Divider is a port-to-post isolation device. When two (or
more) loads are 50 ohms, equal powers are delivered to them. If one load
changes impedance, it gets less power, and the difference is delivered to
the resistor which is part of the Wilkinson Divider. The second load's
power stays unchanged. A Wilkinson Divider doesn't insure equal currents in
two elements, which is usually what you want. (It doesn't even insure equal
powers, for that matter.)

Two or more elements of an array seldom have the same impedance, even if
they exhibit the same impedances when fed individually, because of mutual
coupling. (Exceptions are an array of only two elements with the elements
fed in phase or 180 degrees out of phase.) The problem then is to deliver
equal currents to two elements of unequal impedance. There are ways to do
this. Some are described in Chapter 8 of the ARRL Antenna Book. A simple
method is in Vol. 2 of the ARRL Antenna Compendium, "The Simplest Phased
Array Feed System -- That Works". Forrest Gehrke, K2BT described a more
general method in a series of articles in Ham Radio magazine some years
ago. I believe that all these methods are summarized in John Devoldere's
(ON4UN) book Low-Band DXing. A book by Paul Lee, N6PL, Vertical Antenna
Handbook, describes the method used by broadcasters. Although it's complex
and can be tedious to adjust, it should result in the correct currents.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 14:03:36 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: Tom's comment

Again, the press release revisited.

Who CARES what management THINKS a product does?? Why not ask R&D what it
REALLY does!!

If you're so concerned, then CALL Craven up and ask him.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 6 Nov 1996 14:04:25 -0500
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RE: Tom's comments

Nope; you never built one.

The question isn't if this is the most efficient antenna for its height;
you chose to pose it in this fashion.

The point is that there are SOME figures of merit where a DDRR is an
option--you don't get the FOM stuff though, as we have discussed before.
That's why people ARE testing them right now. I will not repeat those
practical FOM figures as you don't seem to recognize them.

Now: ready for the bombshell Thomas? Q: What small antenna has captured
the wireless industry in the last year--and its a DDRR-type antenna?

You should know; go figure. Then tell us what a lousy option it is as
about 500 wireless companies wonder where you're coming from.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 14:04:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com

RE: 10 dB gain

Question: with respect to what? A dummy load? Why ASSUME its dBd or even
dBi??  Who knows--until someone ASKS...presumably the inventor and NOT the
press contact.

Maybe we'll get our answer soon; enquiring minds like mine want to know.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RFI Problem - HELP
Date: 6 Nov 1996 19:23:06 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Lines: 12
Sender: jparker@element1 (Jeff Parker)
Message-ID: <55qoiq$[e-mail]>
X-newsreader: xrn 8.02

I have recently put up a tower and beam.  I am using a new Yeasu 800SDX rotor
and
I'm having some RFI troubles with the rotor.  On th higher bands, when I trans
mit
using my amp (700 watts) the rotor control box indicates that the rotor/antenn
a
move.  I also have my 2 mtr antenna mounted on the side of the tower and find
that the rotor moves whenever the 2 mtr rig (using it on the DX packet cluster
)
transmits.  I have run the coax (75 ohm hardline) and the rotor control cable
together to the tower.  The total length of the coax run is about 250 feet.  H
as
anyone experienced this problem and does anyone have suggestions on fixing the
trouble.  I am running now by truning the rotor off after I move the antenna.
 Is
this the only solution?  Rerunning the coax/rotor cable is not really a
possibility.  Thanks for you input.  Please reply to my EMAIL address of
[e-mail]   73's  Jeff KA1GJ


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 6 Nov 1996 19:33:02 GMT
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We HAD an antenna wench on earlier; her name was 'Taanya'. Seemed to
previous some 'Richard Simmons' fellow instead though.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:45 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AWAS
Date: 6 Nov 1996 19:34:31 GMT
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Merv--

When you get AWAS up, let us know what you think.

Thanks!

Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:46 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MFJ hf antenna
Date: 6 Nov 1996 19:36:22 GMT
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RE: experience w/ MFJ's

I bet some of the designers check in the newsgroup occasionally; would be
curious to see what THEY think also.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:46 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Richiesta INFO "ALL" PKW
Date: 6 Nov 1996 19:37:40 GMT
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Thanks fer translation; still can't help!

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:47 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 6 Nov 1996 20:31:45 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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I was asked to cool it a bit, and will oblige. Might be helpful if we
concentrated on info relevant to a particular thread.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:48 1996
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From: Don Huff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for good Tnc Software!!
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:38:49 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
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David McLean wrote:
>
> Hello All:
>
>         I am looking for a good program to use on my tnc. If you have any
> let me know. Thnaks!!!

Hi Dave,

  You need to be much more SPECIFIC with your question.  When you say
"TNC" I assume you mean a Terminal Node Controller, which technically
applies to AX.25 packet operation only.  Units such as the PK/HK232,
KAM, MFJ1278, UTU-XT, etc; are Multimode Controllers.  All of these
stand-alone boxes can be used with NO software whatsoever.  You can use
a simple dumb terminal (Glass Teletype, no computer involved) to run
them, from the cmd: prompt. I do.  Most ops prefer to use Terminal
Emulation software, running in a MS-DOS or MAC Personal Computer (PC).
Looking in any ham magazine will identify software products available
for these units.  The first place to inquire is the manufacturer of YOUR
unit.  There is also shareware, such as ACUTERM from Bill, N8BA, for the
'232's.

  Good luck and 73,
                      Don, W6JL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best loaded Dipole
Date: 6 Nov 1996 16:09:39 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In your response, you said:

Could you suggest some typical field strength values; BW value; match to
50 ohms? How fat is your dipole? In other words, if some other approach
was seeking to better the fat, loaded dipole, what numbers would you want
to beat?

My Reply:

There seems to be evidence that a loaded dipole with up to a 50% size
reduction can perform virtually as well as a full-sized element in terms
of field strength.  I believe Michaels' article showed that when high-Q
inductors (300) are used and optimally placed, a 50% reduction in length
only results in about 1 dB penalty.  My own experience with the discpole,
which is capacitivley loaded to 50% length and has no resistive loss from
series inductors, would support this.  My field strength tests at 2
meters, such as they were, indicated no measurable difference in field
strength due to element shortening (1 dB meter resolution).

Bandwidth is a different issue.  Shortening typically introduces a
significant bandwidth penalty over a non-loaded resonant element.
Capacitive end loading appears to somewhat offset this effect--probably
due to the effect of the end-structures increasing the apparent diameter
of the radiator.  A "fat" element isn't particularly important for reasons
of resistive loss, but apparent diameter is very important for bandwidth
restoration.  The discpole, for example, typically exhibits a 2:1 VSWR
bandwidth of around 7.5% -- just a little less than a full-sized element.

As far as matching goes, the feedpoint impedance drops considerably as the
antenna is shortened.  There are several ways to deal with this.  The
discpole uses OCF (off-center feed) at the junction of one end-disc and
the radiator, and the antenna's discs and element are proportioned to
provide a 50-Ohm match at this point.  For center feed, the hairpin match,
a 4:1 balun, as well as any other common method used for matching a Yagi,
should work fine (the center impedance is similar to that of many
Yagis--probably somewhere in the 15-20  Ohm range for a 50% reduction).
If you can settle for a 35% reduction and some inductive loading about
2/3rds out, a loaded dipole in free space (normally around 70-Ohms) will
exhibit a feedpoint impedance of around 50 Ohms--and require no matching
whatsoever.

To wrap up, it is reasonable to expect a well designed (and carefully
built) 50% dipole to perform virtually without penalty--it should perform
within 1 dB of a full-sized element in terms of field strength at
resonance. Matching into a 50-Ohms system should also be non-problematic.
The most difficult parameter to retain is bandwidth.  Capacitive loading
(or somehow making the antenna "fat" at the end) is the only method I am
familiar with that can restore bandwidth without severly impacting upon
the efficiency of the radiator (adding lossy networks and messing with
feedline length don't count).  Loss of 1-dB or less,  >5% BW, and a good
50-Ohm match is probably as good as it gets.

Hope that answers your question.  If you want to go much deeper than this,
I'll have to defer to other net memebers.

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:51 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 75 ohm coax
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 21:42:33 GMT
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On Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:33:08 -0800, Stig Schyffert
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>Ginsberg Family wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, Can any one offer advice on using 75 ohm hardline that I can get a
t
>> a super price for 50 ohm ham radio equipment.  I will need to make or by
>> transformers for the ends to get the 50 ohm impedence, What can I exspect o
n
>> losses  any help appreciated. Ed KE6BNL
>> --
>> 1╛
>
>Forget it, it will only cause you trouble
>SM0BKZ

I've been using 1/2" 75-ohm hardling from the CATV industry for HF
antennas for about 10 years now with little or no noticeable
difficulties.

The SWR due to impedance mismatch is only about 1.5:1, which is
generally quite acceptable for frequencies thru 30 MHz.

I fabricated connectors out of 1/2" brass natural gas line compression
fittings, available for $1 or so from most hardware stores.  If you
get the double female (union) connector, it can be cut in half and two
connectors made from it.  Once cut in half, slit a PL-259 into the cut
end and sweat solder it into place.  Then strip your coax to
appropriate lengths, TIN the center conductor and insert the coax into
the compression end of the connector until the center conductor of the
coax is in the barrel of the PL-259.  Solder the center conductor in
place and tighten the compression fitting securely, bot NOT TOO TIGHT.
Waterproof well with tape and you're done.  After 6-8 years of use, I
have found a couple instances where the aluminum outer shield of the
coax 'cold flowed' a bit and produced a usable, but still concerning,
connection.  I just replaced the connector by cutting off the old end
of the coax (the last 2-3 inches anyway) , went to the hdw store,
bought another compression band (they can be obtained without having
to buy the entire connector), replaced the old compression band and
reinstalled the same connector.

K4VX used 3/4" TV hardline for many of his HF antennas and he has a
method of attaching 3/4"-to-1/2" copper tubing adapters to it so he
can solder on a PL-259.  I've not mastered this technique yet
though... still working on it.... hope I get it soon though, I have a
LOT of 3/4" 75-ohm hardline in my back yard, still on reels.

73 - Tom Hammond   N0SS


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:52 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 14:00:21 -0800
Organization: none
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Barry Anderson wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] says...
> >
> > I think that Altavoz is pulling your collective chains and getting some
> > borderline personalities to cross the demarcation that seperates civil
> > behaviors from the demented stuff we hear on 20m & 80m.
> >
> Well said, Dick.
>
> This is a hobby
> folks ... and as corny as it may sound, amateur radio has always
> considered itself a fraternal organization.

The deviant (that is, non-conforming, perhaps even wacky) personalities
are part of the human spectrum (mosaic).  We can live with them, and from
time to time maybe even learn from them. I suggest let's try to be a
little more tolerant of the altavoz's and others whose norms don't
coincide with what most of us consider "normal" (whatever that is). What
I don't like is the obscenities, insults and name-calling.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:53 1996
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From: Jim S <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Balloon-borne antenna?
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 14:33:14 -0800
Organization: San Diego SuperComputer Center at UCSD
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31216 rec.radio.shortwave:88093

Jake Brodsky wrote about FAA and requirements for tethered balloons and
Kites..

As both a Ham and a pilot, I want to emphasis the importance of
the stated safety precaustions...

I live in a "hole" and I have been contemplating using a Helium balloon
to tether an antenna on a temporary basis... but...

Several nights ago, a police helicopter hoovered at about 200 feet in the
immediate vicinity of my residence for about 20 minutes while searching
for someone lost (or wanted?).  The point is this.  Had I lofted my
antenna system, it could have been a lethal hazard inspite of its
legality. Aircraft are supposed to fly at higher altitudes but there are
exceptions....

JimS


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:54 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Effect of power lines near SWR antenna??
Date: 6 Nov 1996 22:46:46 GMT
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Hello-

The bug has bit me (a friend gave me a Realistic DX-300!),  and I want to
hang a small horizontal wire antenna in my yard;  I will probably use an
"antenna tuner" to optimize it as I am limited in space.  My problem is,
the best (and only) place to put it is from a tree near the road to my
roof,  and on the other side of the tree from the antenna are poles with
power lines!  The free (?) end of the antenna will be about 10-14 feet
from the lines.  Is it worth putting up the antenna?  I like to listen to
Deutsche Welle on the 41 and 39 meter bands to practice my German and my
fiancee likes to hear a little of her native tongue,  too.  Thanks in
advance for any advice!

Rocky Warren


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:55 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: 6 Nov 1996 23:08:20 GMT
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University
Lines: 21
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.53.10.2
Originator: ashleyb@sellwood

I am new to 2m SSB and I current use a Tr-9000 with a twin lead J-pole.
I am surprised at how many contacts I have made with this simple set-up
and 10w of power. What I am looking at is to set up a single very
versitile vertical antenna for VHF. I have seen the previous postings
for the ringo-ranger verticals. What I would like to know from the group
is whether anyone has used a diamond 6m/2m/440 tri-band vertical. The specs lo
ok
really nice on paper. The other option would be to go for a MFJ-1396
and have everything in one stick. I already am aware of horizontal
beams being best for SSB Dx and I probably will eventually get their
but at this point I just want to start some where and it might be
nice to have 6m and 440 as options. I don't mind spending $150 on a
nice ant if it is going to preform. The other option might be to get
the $60 ringo ranger and spend the additional money on a pre-amp/amp
to boost my receive input and power output. If any one has a simple or
complex ansewer I will greatly apreciate it. Please Email me since I
sometimes have trouble getting on the news group and I would hate to
miss your reply.


      [e-mail]               Thanks Brad   WB7TSO



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:56 1996
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From: "Juan Flores" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HELP PLEASE
Date: 6 Nov 1996 23:17:59 GMT
Organization: Warranty Direct, Inc.
Lines: 17
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Dear sirs:


If you have the International Callbook, please tell me if appears the
callsign HI8-HF.
The letters belong to my father who wants to know if his new callsign has
already been published.

Thank you very much.


Juan Flores
HI8-BFP
[e-mail]
Santo Domingo
Dominican Republic



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:57 1996
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From: "C.D.Sage" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA News Release
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 15:56:32 -0800
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Gentlemen,
 I originally posted the news release regarding the Contrawound Toroidal
Helical Antenna because I did not have in my possession at the time any
technical data to share with you. Apparently I wrongly assumed that those
with an interest in the CTHA would investigate it further on their own
and perhaps  some semblance of a civil discourse would follow regarding
the merits or demerits of this device. Your reception does a great
disservice to this newsgroup in that no decent, self-respecting man or
woman of science would willingly subject themselves to this
pseudo-scientific balderdash and insult that you so generously inflict on
all.
Gentlemen, I greet you.
C.D.Sage


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider N
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 22:12:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
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Tony,
I think you are asking whether a Wilkenson power
divider may be used for driving a two element
vertical array to assure equal driving current.
I have not seen your original post and am going
by the succeeding posts.

I am guessing where you are coming from.  You
probably are assuming that the two elements are
identical impedance and therefore you expect to
feed these elements with an equal power divider
to assure that they are driven with equal currents.

However, due to mutual coupling between these
two elements, and when fed with equal magnitude
currents but 90 degrees out of phase, those
elements do not look anything like their self
impedances.

With a good ground screen under each element and
assuming they are 1/4 wavelength high and 1/4
wavelength spaced the driving impedances of these
elements will approximate 21 - j 15 for the
reference element and  51 + j 15 for the element
being fed 90 degrees lagging, with equal magnitude
currents.

As you can see the two elements are far from
identical in driving impedance and consequently
a Wilkenson power divider isn't the right
prescription by a long shot.  W7EL, Roy Lewallen
has described a simple method of feeding this
2 el in-line array.  I believe you will find
it in the ARRL antenna manual or else in their
compendium.  ON4UN's "Low Band DX-ing" is another
source for this information and this book is also
published by ARRL.
//
 k2bt

 * RM 1.3 02583 *


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:59 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: 7 Nov 1996 03:32:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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In <[e-mail]> Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> writes:
>
>EZNEC gives an impedance of -2-j700 for one feedpoint
>using two phased dipoles fed 126 degrees apart. If I
>neutralize the capacitance with a parallel inductance,
>is the result -245K ohms? Is -245K ohms a higher or
>lower resistance than -2 ohms. My head hurts from
>thinking about it.

Cecil!

    How in the world did you get -2 ohms?  (Surely not from your
Smith chart plot as a check, eh?).  My head would hurt, too. <g>

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:53:59 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 7 Nov 1996 05:11:24 GMT
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A Dipole will out perform a A99. A99 is highly overrated with exaurated
Gain figures it Basically is a Dipole mounted Vertical


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Childress)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 07:15:11 GMT
Organization: Self
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Damned lawyers  - Typical attitude. I doubt that his  livelihood depends on a
few crummy dollars a year from the wireheads (ARRL/SBE).  He'd be much better
off just ignoring a few comments in a newletter with a tiny circulation.

[e-mail]

------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]          If Computers Are The Answer...
  WB6CSZ                         What Was The Question?



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:02 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: Best loaded Dipole
Date: 7 Nov 1996 13:03:10 GMT
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Hi Rick--

As we both know, your answer (that is, (large)  cap caps on the ends) is a
very good one and , indeed is the one that  Les Moxon, G6XN suggested as
the best option (see Moxon, "High Performance Small Beams", March 79 Ham
Radio). But that answer doesn't apply universally, such as when you have a
flat footprint for the antenna; say, you have to stick the antenna in a
small rectangle. In that case the sides (caps) are quite large with
respect to the shortened dipole. To save some time, Moxon suggests a
archimedean spiral type arrangement at the ends that may apply to this
problem.

The question is, is this the best arrangement? Are there better ones?
Anyone have any useful results?

Let's make it a little more challenging: no discrete parts. That means,
any inductors or caps you use must be part of the antenna
design--effectively wire parts. Stubs, goose eggs, or whatever are ok.Now
what to do? Can you do better than Moxon's spiral-ends?

Interested in any informed replies.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Resonance and lowest Z?
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 06:11:04 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
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Jim Hutchings wrote:
> The resistive component won't change with frequency but the
> reactive component will.    Jim Hutchings  VE5HM

Hi Jim, You probably didn't mean to say that. The above
statement implies that a half-wave centerfed and a
full-wave centerfed have the same resistance when the
truth is the resistance goes from about 50 ohms to about
5000 ohms. The resistive component does change with
frequency. It just changes slower than the reactance
around the current loop.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:03 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 06:14:20 -0700
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Anthony Severdia wrote:
>     How in the world did you get -2 ohms?  (Surely not from your
> Smith chart plot as a check, eh?).  My head would hurt, too. <g>

Hi Tony, Roy, W7EL, says that is normal for an element that is
delivering power back into the feedline because of coupling to
another element. My question is, how exactly does a negative
resistance get transformed by a transmission line.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: 7 Nov 1996 14:13:28 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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RE: 'personality'

Dear altavoz,

The problem is that we have all convincingly shown you are wrong, and you
have trouble accepting it. Then again, the 5/8 solution is being passed
off to lots of consumers in, at best, an iffy scenario.

Interesting question: Anybody have far field comparisons of a 5/8 whip
(say at cellular) compared to a 1/4 wave? Incorporating the real-world
multipath, what DO you find? This is of especial interest because most
line of sight paths to cell phones--at least in urban environments--are
NOT at the horizon, but at launch angles from 10-60 degrees! (Depending on
car elevation and distance from cell.) (Just think about where they stick
those cells).

I really don't care if you check into some onanistic alt newsgroup; that's
your concern. But, as I mentioned, if you modeled or built a 5/8th you'd
see you need a very large GP to get the 3 dB gain at low launch angles.

There are several excellent modelling programs, some as cheap as $50, from
which you could accurately simulate this. EZNEC is a super program if you
want a recommendation, and there are others that also work very well and
are easy to use.

73
Chip N1IR




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:05 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA News Release
Date: 7 Nov 1996 14:23:58 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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RE: Pete's comment

The IAS press release is a press release. Ask yourself the following
question: If R&D departments issued the press releases, how would they
look different? Reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon where the sales guy
brings Dilbert along. When the customer asks Dilbert if there are any code
glitches he says 'yes! I hid them under security'! The salesman then is
shown walking out with Dilbert saying,' remind me not to bring you next
time'. Lesson: a press release is not a Letter to Nature. Who cares if we
think they SHOULD be something they're not?

Fun activity: review a dozen press releases and assess for accuracy, and
so on. Now compare to the IAS stuff. Bet its somewhere in the middle.

I think press releases are just fine. I think ads are just fine. I also
think if a product doesn't do what the company claims it does they won't
stay in business very long--competition and evaporating sales will
kill'em.

I also believe that our knowledge of the CTHA is superficial and it would
be useful to know what the guys at CIRA say.............

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:06 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 7 Nov 1996 14:43:53 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Gotta run but here's  an update on Dr. Craven.

First, its pronounced with a long 'a' like 'cave'.
Second, his name is Robert Craven; I apologize for the error.
Next his phone is: 304-293-3111 x 355.

I have left a message unrelated to the newsgroup, but when I speak to him
I will ask him to join us.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:07 1996
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From: Kent Winrich <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 08:53:45 -0600
Organization: Exec-PC BBS Internet - Milwaukee, WI
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L. M. Rappaport wrote:
>
> [e-mail] (.) wrote (with possible editing):
>
> >In article <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]>,
> >   "James S. Kaplan" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>ARRL lawyer to sue member
> >>
> >>The following is a copy of a message I received today from
> >>ARRL General Counsel Christopher D. Imlay N3AKD:
> >>
> >>
> >>To:       James S. Kaplan, KG7FU
> >>Copies:   Mary Lou Brown, NM7N
> >>          Terry Baun
> >>          John Poray
> >>Date:     July 16, 1996
> >>Re:       Your article, SBE Chapter 124 Newsletter, July, 1996
> >>**************************************************************
> >>
> >>     Jim, I have just finished reading your article in the July,
> >>1996 Water Cooled Newsletter, page 6. In it, you argue that two of
> >>my clients, the American Radio Relay League, Inc. and the Society
> >>of Broadcast Engineers, Inc. should cooperate in certain government
> >>relations projects, specifically spectrum protection. You note that
> >>I serve as the General Counsel for both organizations. You then
> >>jump from that argument to the following, which I quote:
> >>
> >>     If Mr. Imlay can't resolve HIS OWN conflicts of interest,
> >>     perhaps both ARRL and SBE should be seeking more
> >>     effective counsel. No offense Chris, but we have work to
> >>     do. We should not only be sending a message to the FCC
> >>     and Congress, but to other radio industries.
> >>
> >>                              (emphasis in original)
> >>
> >>It is not useful for me to educate you on the subject of your
> >>article to correct the errors in it, and I do not intend to do so.
> >>What I do intend, however, is for you to print a retraction, in
> >>unambiguous terms, in a form acceptable to me, and to furnish to
> >>me, in writing, an assurance that such will be printed in the next
> >>Chapter Newsletter for Chapter 124. Failing that, I am going to sue
> >>you in the District of Columbia for libel.
> >>
> >>     I have no intention of allowing you to falsely allege that I
> >>have a conflict of interest in representing two of my best clients,
> >>especially in an SBE publication. You are not entitled to damage my
> >>reputation as a lawyer, which you have done in your article, or to
> >>infer (without any basis at all) that I have violated the canons of
> >>ethics governing attorneys, by which I govern my actions.
> >>
> >>     I will await your response.
> >>
> >>Chris Imlay, N3AKD
> >>
> >Great response! People need to express their thoughts and opinions without
the threat
> >of legal action!
> >
> >Dave
> >[e-mail]


I noticed that Chris did not include his email so we could write to him
with a few opinions!

Kent, NI9U


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:08 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 7 Nov 1996 14:55:29 GMT
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <55st91$31ie$[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (L. M. Rappaport) writes:
>
>Imagine that - a lawyer concerned about his reputation!  As if they
>had any.  Give him a break, Imlay - get a life.
>
>L. M. Rappaport
>

Alas, it is arrogance of that sort that gives the profession a bad name among
the public.  Pretty unfortunate.

Roger J. Buffington
W6VZV
[e-mail]

USC Law School, Class of '97

--------------------------------------------------
"I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my Grandfather."
"Not screaming, and in terror, like his passengers."
--------------------------------------------------



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:09 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!n1ist
From: [e-mail] (Michael L. Ardai)
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utopia Planetia Shipyards - Mars
References: <55remb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:02:11 GMT
Lines: 19
Sender: [e-mail]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31242 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:19995 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1244 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41958 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20891 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117773 rec.radio.amateur.policy:42860 rec.radio.amateur.space:8757

In article <[e-mail]> Kent Winrich <[e-mail]> writes:
[Revival of this old blather...]

-I noticed that Chris did not include his email so we could write to him
-with a few opinions!

I don't know why someone just brought this thread back; it made the rounds
back in the summer (and I thought got bashed to death...)

Try calling the League; I'm sure they have Chris's address.  It might be
[e-mail], but I haven't tried that one.
/mike



--
\|/      Michael L. Ardai        N1IST       [e-mail]       \|/
-*- ===  Boston Amateur Radio Club:  http://www.barc.org/barc   === -*-
/|\    or send "info barc-list" to [e-mail]     /|\


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!news
From: Walter Rawle <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 07:31:55 -0800
Organization: Ericsson Data Services Americas
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc5567.ena-east.ericsson.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> EZNEC gives an impedance of -2-j700 for one feedpoint
> using two phased dipoles fed 126 degrees apart. If I
> neutralize the capacitance with a parallel inductance,
> is the result -245K ohms? Is -245K ohms a higher or
> lower resistance than -2 ohms. My head hurts from
> thinking about it.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)Cecil:
This is educated speculation. I think you have established a condition
where the direction of current is opposite to what is established in the
program. I have not used EZNEC but I have used NEC and further I have
written my own MoM codes solving EFIE for wires. I have found conditions
where currents are opposite to convention which leads to negative real
part of input impedance. If this is not the case, the stability of the
solution may be in question. I dont know if the authors of EZNEC use any
pre-conditioning on their impedance matrix before solving for the current
distribution. Further information may be obtained from Harrington's book
on method of moments in EM. In summary, from what you describe however, I
think that the coupling between the elements may be establishing a
current at the feedpoint which is in a direction opposite to that
selected as convention in the software

walter rawle ve1aws/w4


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!qualcomm.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Michael Bruss)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: Minimum curve radius for 9913 coax?
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner
Date: 7 Nov 1996 16:48:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <55t3t1$[e-mail]>
References: <55qelg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31258 rec.radio.scanner:70183

altavoz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Michael Bruss wrote:
: >
: > What is the minimum curve radius for 9913 type cable (actually, it's
: > 9086)?  I have the impression that if it is bent too sharply, its RF
: > characteristics change a lot for the worse.  Does anyone make BNC
: > connectors for this cable or will I have to use a 259/BNC adapter?
: >
: > Mike
:
:
: altavoz: Why not use RG8FOAM ? It's in the same ball park
: but infinitely easier to use .
:

I thought RG8 has much higher signal loss in VHF/UHF range which is what I
use.

Mike


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsgate.compuserve.com!newsmaster
From: [e-mail] (Eric Davies)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Craig Antenna Systems
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 19:24:43 GMT
Organization: news.compuserve.com
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <55t9cu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-239.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.56

Can anyone provide information on an antenna tower, crankup.  That was
manufactured by Craig Systems out of Lawerance, Mass.  It is an
aluminium telescoping tower.  Retracted Ht of 80" and max Ht of 25'.
Is the manufactor still in business and if not does any one have data
on this item.  Please email response to [e-mail].

Tnx
Eric KJ7NC



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:14 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mackrel.fishnet.net!usenet
From: Mike <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: pneumatic antenna mast
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:01:23 -0800
Organization: Fishnet Internet Services
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port005.scv.fishnet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello to all. I am trying to locate a source for a pneumatic antenna
mast, the type used on those media vans. If anyone can provide some help,
I would really appreciate it. Thanks
Mike K6YPB
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.cdsnet.net!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!neptune.gan.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!connix.com!usenet
From: Bob Berg <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help: Cushcraft 270 vs 270B VHF Dual Band.
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 16:09:16 -0500
Organization: Robohand, Inc
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: robohand.connix.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello,
I looking for some help.  I just got my liscense and ready to construct
a 2m/70cm base station.  I am considering the chushcraft 270 or the 270B
the 270 has a higher rated gain then the 270B. However its twice the
length which will limit me on how high I can mount it. The 270B has a
lower gain but is a lot shorter wich will allow me to mount it higher.
about 7 feet higher to be exact.  What would be the best way go?

Any comments would be appreciated......
N1YCH
Bob Berg
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.deltanet.com!usenet
From: Joe Pekarek <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Beta testers wanted for microwave/RF presentation graphics program
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:15:26 -0800
Organization: Applied Wave Research, Inc.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gar0245.deltanet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (WinNT; I)

We are searching for beta testers for PlotSMITH+, a
utility program for microwave and RF engineers.
PlotSMITH+ provides presentation graphics and
post-processing capabilities in a very easy to use
Windows 95/NT based application. The beta version
of PlotSMITH+ can be downloaded from:

      http://www.appwave.com

Thank you for your time!

Joseph Pekarek, Ph.D.
President, Applied Wave Research, Inc.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!crusty.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx04-32
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 21:18:11 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <55tjmq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx04-32.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

Here's some information about array elements which have a negative
resistance.

The feedpoint impedance of an array element is made up of more than one
part. One part is the self-impedance of the element -- the impedance of the
element when all others are removed. There's also a contribution from the
coupling to each of the other elements. This is sometimes called "coupled
impedance" (cf. Jasik). For a two-element array, the equations are:

  V1 = I1*Z11 + I2*Z12
  V2 = I1*Z21 + I2*Z22

where

  V1 =  the voltage at the feedpoint of element 1
  V2 =  the voltage at the feedpoint of element 2
  I1 =  the current at the feedpoint of element 1
  I2 =  the current at the feedpoint of element 2
  Z11 = the self impedance of element 1
  Z22 = the self impedance of element 2
  Z12 = Z21 = the mutual impedance between elements 1 and 2

All quantities are complex. Larger arrays have additional terms and
equations. A common model for the element 1 feedpoint is Z11 in series with
a voltage source whose value is I2*Z12, representing voltage ("coupled
voltage") induced due to mutual coupling. Similarly, the element 2
feedpoint can be represented by Z22 in series with a voltage source of
I1*Z21 volts. (A three element array would have an additional source at
each feedpoint, a four element array two additional sources, etc.)

From the equations, we can calculate:

  Z1 = V1/I1 = Z11 + (I2/I1)*Z12
  Z2 = V2/I2 = (I1/I2)*Z21 + Z22

These are the feedpoint impedances at each element. Notice that the
feedpoint impedance of element 1 has changed from Z11 (which was its
impedance when the second element was missing) to the new value Z1. The
amount of change -- the coupled impedance -- is (I2/I1)*Z12. This change
can be very substantial.

The resistive (real) part of Z11 has to be positive, but Z12 (= Z21) can
have either a positive or negative real part. (See Fig. 19 in Chapter 8 of
the ARRL Antenna Book.) Also, I2/I1 can be virtually anything, depending on
how the elements are fed. So it's entirely possible for the real part of
the coupled impedance to be negative and greater than the real part of the
self impedance, resulting in a negative feedpoint resistance.

Another way to look at the situation is to go back to the model I described
above, with the coupled voltage in series with the self impedance. The
feedpoint resistance will be negative when the real part of the coupled
voltage source is large enough to reverse the real part of the normal
feedpoint voltage polarity. That is, when the real part of the coupled
voltage is greater than the real part of I1*Z11. Then, the source
representing mutual coupling is providing enough power to supply Z11, and
has some left over.

When the feedpoint resistance is negative, the element is feeding power
into the feed system. It gets this power from coupling to the other
elements. Cecil recently sent me a model of a two-element array with one
element having a negative resistance. With EZNEC, I specified a total power
of 100 watts to be applied. The analysis shows that one element is
consuming 112 watts, and the other -12 watts. That is, 12 of the watts
going to one element are coming back from the other.

How do we handle these negative resistance elements? The answer is to
handle them like any other. A negative resistance simply means that the
angle of the impedance is between 90 and 270 degrees. There's nothing magic
about this. The formulas for impedance transformation of coaxial lines
don't care what the angle is, nor do the networks needed for producing the
right current ratios. The only thing which you might want to do differently
is SWR calculation. If for some reason you're interested in knowing the SWR
on the line feeding a negative-R element, you'll have to look at the
impedance at the end farthest away from the antenna. For these elements,
the source is at the antenna, and the "load", which determines the SWR, is
the impedance at the end away from the antenna. (This may not be an easy
problem, since the Z at that end will depend on all the other things
connected there.) After all is said and done, when the feedlines are
connected together and the feed system complete, the resistance looking
into the system will be positive. Count on it. (If you come up with a
negative value for the whole system, let me know right away! This would be
even a simpler way to make a perpetual motion machine than the one I
proposed on April 1 a couple of years ago.)

An interesting special case is where the coupled impedance is exactly the
negative of the self impedance. When this happens, the feedpoint impedance
is zero, and we can disconnect the feedline and short-circuit the feedpoint
without changing array operation. This is what a "parasitic" element is.

For more information about phased arrays, see Chapter 8 of the ARRL Antenna
Book.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:18 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.iamerica.net!news
From: [e-mail] (dwh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: TENNADYNE T-31 50MHZ-1300 MHZ ANTENNA
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:31:08 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.173.249.40
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

For Sale,

   Tennadyne T-31 50Mhz - 1300 Mhz Log Periodic Antenna.  Good
Condition and works well.  It is on a 12 ft boom and has 31 elements.
It can be used horz or vertical.  Covers all freq's within the 50-1300
Mhz region with a SWR of less than 1.5:1.  Cost $240 new.  Will sell
for $150 plus shipping.  Email for details: [e-mail]
At last! A multiband antenna for the serious VHF/UHF'er




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fractenna
Date: 7 Nov 1996 22:09:38 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 7
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

'Taanya': your surfaces are just too euclidean for me.

Please restrict yourself to antennas on this newsgroup, or else you are
likely to get quite a bit of e-mail;presumably unfavorable..

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:20 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!torn!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!news.utdallas.edu!newnews.metronet.com!usenet
From: Jerry Decker <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 17:44:15 -0600
Organization: Texas Metronet Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: fw52.metronet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K)

Well, finally gonna join the HF mobile ranks and looking to buy a
BugCatcher from Henry in Caddo Mills, TX.

Was wondering what would be the optimum configuration for installing on
a Ford Explorer. Is anyone in this newsgroup using one on an Explorer?
What is your configuration. If you had an unlimited budget, what would
be your optimum configuration?

Would buying the biggest coil, the longest rod and stinger, and biggest
cap hat be the best?

I wanna work 10-160 too.

Thanks for any input!

Jerry WR5V


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.structured.net!crusty.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx04-34
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA News Release
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 23:51:07 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <55tslh$[e-mail]>
References: <55rore$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx04-34.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] wrote:
>. . .

>I also believe that our knowledge of the CTHA is superficial and it would
>be useful to know what the guys at CIRA say.............

Indeed. They've been asked -- I hope we hear from them soon.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!yuma!purdue!news.bu.edu!dartvax.dartmouth.edu!usenet
From: Mike McAmis
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: * Windows Logging Freeware
Date: 8 Nov 1996 01:31:17 GMT
Organization: WA3ECT
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <55u2h5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: v2-p-112.valley.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

Disappointed with your commercial/shareware logging or
packet software for Windows?  Try XMLog, freeware that's
available on the Internet.  XMLog provides a flexible set
of coordinated logging and packet features.

Where to get XMLog on the Internet using a Web browser:

  Try my new home page at http://franklin.ptgi.com

  or...

  Try the Boston Amateur Radio Club's home page at
  http://www.acs.oakland.edu/barc/barc.html

    - scroll down to the "BARC FTP Archives" section
    - click on "FTP Archive"
    - scroll down to "Software Archives"
    - click on "PC Files"
    - click on "logging"
    - scroll down and click on "xmlog125.zip"

   (Even though the directory says DOS, it really is a
   Windows program...)

Getting XMLog on the Internet using FTP:

  Sign on to ftp.barc.org with the userid of anonymous
  and a password of guest.  Move to the
  /pub/hamradio/dos/logging directory and get xmlog125.zip

  or...

  Sign on to ftp.funet.fi with a userid of anonymous and
  supply your e-mail address as the password.  Move to the
  /pub/ham/hf-log directory and get xmlog125.zip

Version 1.24/1.25 has many minor improvements - the big
changes are DXCC/WAS/WAZ award submission tracking and
support for the Radio Amateur Callbook (Flying Horse) CD.

If your PC only has 4mb of memory, Version 1.23 is still
available at my home page or at BARC's home page (version
1.25 requires 8mb).

The archives can be busy at times, don't give up if you
can't sign on right away.  Let me know if you:
  -  want more info
  -  can't fetch the file
  -  want a diskette instead

Have fun...

Mike McAmis/WA3ECT
433 Hanover Center Road
Etna, NH - 03750

[e-mail]        (e-mail)
WA3ECT @ W1ET.NH           (packet)
YCCC PacketCluster at K1XX



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:23 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!gatech!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
From: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Need advice on rotator R&R
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems
References: <01bbc8df$f7963860$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:32:41 GMT
Lines: 63
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31236 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1239 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:41951 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117764

In article <01bbc8df$f7963860$[e-mail]> "Stan Huntting" <stan@mut
adv.com> writes:
>I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the BIG winds blow.
>
>Last week's big wind got my rotator - it behaves as
>though a lot of teeth are missing from the final drive
>gear. HyGain offers great support, but I think that
>starts AFTER I get the rotator off the tower. Now, I
>need help with the task of removing it for repair.
>
[snip]
>
>My big concern is this: even though the weight of the
>2-1/2" diam mast and antenna (combined weight of about
>250 lb.., mostly ABOVE the thrust bearing) is born by
>the thrust bearing, I think the rotator is essential
>for lateral stability of the mast - I don't think the
>thrust bearing can maintain the vertical alignment of
>the mast by itself. Am I right? Is there a standard way
>of stabilizing the lower end of the mast while the
>rotator is removed and repaired (likely to be many
>weeks)? I'd really rather not remove and reinstall the
>antenna and mast.

Yes, you need to stablize the mast. You can do that with
wire cables to the tower legs, wooden blocks wedged to
the tower legs, etc. Cables with turnbuckles are probably
the best approach. They can be tensioned to hold the mast
well centered, and won't be dislodged by the wind torquing
on the antenna.

>Also, if the hex set screws that fix the mast clamp
>to the rotator output shaft are really frozen, what are
>the methods (in order of increasing desperation) for
>dealing with them - liquid wrench, EZ-out?

Before you *touch* the first screw, soak them in Liquid
Wrench for 24 hours. Use a well fitting hex bit and a
hand impact driver (available at Sears). The impacts will
work the screws loose without torquing them off or ruining
the heads. Be patient, don't use an air wrench, just keep
tapping away. If the screws are really stubborn, heating
with a propane torch and resuming impacts can often help.

If you do torque off a screw, you'll have to resort to the
EZ-out or drill them out completely (which will force you
to retap the housing for a larger screw when you put it back).
If you just wallow out the socket, then you can weld in an
extension hex bit and work the screw out with vicegrips.
Neither of these methods is easy when high on a tower. Best
is to avoid torquing the screw off or wallowing the head in
the first place. Don't use worn hex bits. Make sure you have
a really tight fit. If necessary, upset or grind a bit to be
a perfect tight fit before you start. Use an impact driver,
don't just crank on a hex wrench with a cheater bar. A few
extra minutes of preparation can save you hours of frustration
later.

Gary
--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | Due to provider problems
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | with previous uucp address
es
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | Email to [e-mail]
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:24 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:12:42 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 28
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To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> RE: 'personality'
>
> Dear altavoz,
>
> The problem is that we have all convincingly shown you are wrong, and you
> have trouble accepting it. Then again, the 5/8 solution is being passed
> off to lots of consumers in, at best, an iffy scenario.

altavoz: Smart people use 5/8 wl , dumb use 1/4 wl . ITS THAT SIMPLE.

> Interesting question: Anybody have far field comparisons of a 5/8 whip
> (say at cellular)

altavoz: NO , say satellite,gaurded area. No make that telemetry,
43 mhz , no make that commercial aircraft, no make that 10 GHZ......

YOU IDIOT ! NO ANTENNA WORKS FOR ALL APPS ! AND ALTAVOZ ( the all knowing,
all seeing , ) DID NOT SAY THE 5/8 WL ANTENNA WOULD DO EVERYTHING , YOU MORON.


> 73
> Chip N1IR



______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:25 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.electronics.equipment
Subject: Re: BIRD 43 Help/Tutorial
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:16:41 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbcb72$93899c00$01a447cc@desktop>
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Bob Smith wrote:
>
> Can someone kindly point me to a tutorial on the Bird 43 watt meter.  Just
> got one used without a manual.  They look very simple to use.
>
> I do have a RF Sampler fitted - what range out output does this have? -
> would hate to blow my frequency meter or o-scope.!
>
> Thanks a million for reading.
>
> --
> >>>>
> Bob Smith    N3FTU
> Atlanta, GA


altavoz: Many slugs and $$$thousands of dollars later ......
WHY NOT BUY AN MFJ249/209 ?

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:26 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:20:18 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> CM> Hi Joel, a 5/8 vertical with a good ground or a 2x5/8 dipole
> CM> has the maximum gain available from wire with no other
> CM> components.
>
> > altavoz: You're wrong . A .6 wl needs a .6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM.
> > Read my post on Paul H. Lee page 84 on radials on a half wave.
>
> Isn't a ".6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM" a good ground? It either is or it
> isn't. If it is, guess who was correct. If it isn't, guess who
> is incorrect.

altavoz: Mr Wizzard , mind telling us whats on your alledged mind ?
  Cause we're not mind readers .

> Most compact cars don't have .6 wl of body on 2m. Does that mean
> that a .6 wl is not a good 2m mobile antenna for compacts?

altavoz: Beats a 1/4wl but needs 180 radials to really dance well.
But you should have known that .
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

--

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:27 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA News Release
Date: 8 Nov 1996 05:44:45 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 22
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, "C.D.Sage" <[e-mail]>
writes:

>Your reception does a great
>disservice to this newsgroup in that no decent, self-respecting man or
>woman of science would willingly subject themselves to this
>pseudo-scientific balderdash and insult that you so generously inflict on

>all.

When a press release contains all sorts of technical nonsense, and others
point out, why is that an insult?

An insult is a personal comment, directed at an individual. While it is
true there have been too many personal attacks on this newsgroup lately,
it is absolutely incorrect to imply because false, unclear, or exaggerated
technical claims are discussed and rebuffed that it is personal.

Facts are facts. They stand up, or the purveyor of fantasy folds his cards
and runs from the table with an excuse blaming others.




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:28 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: 8 Nov 1996 05:44:45 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 18
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>EZNEC gives an impedance of -2-j700 for one feedpoint
>using two phased dipoles fed 126 degrees apart. If I
>neutralize the capacitance with a parallel inductance,
>is the result -245K ohms? Is -245K ohms a higher or
>lower resistance than -2 ohms. My head hurts from
>thinking about it.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

It is higher Cecil, but the element is still a power source and not a
load. Use should use series reactance, it would be a more reasonable
impedance.




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:30 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:46:39 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55cf92$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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William E. Sabin wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> >
> > Q is rate of change of reactance.
>
> Consider a series LCR circuit connected to a voltage generator:
>

altavoz: Series LCR (1/4 wl) , parallel LCR ( 1/2 wl antenna.)


> 1) At F0 the impedance is R
>
> 2) At FHI the current is down 3 dB and XHI = R (XHI Inductive)
>
> 3) At FLO the current is down 3 dB and -XLO = R (XLO Capacitive)
>
> 4) dX/dF = (XHI - XLO) / (FHI - FLO) = 2 * R / (FHI - FLO)
>
> 5) Q = F0 / (FHI - FLO)
>
> Combine 4 and 5  to get
>
> 6) Q = (F0 / 2 * R) * (dX/dF)
>
> So if we know R and F0, Q can be found from dX/dF.  This assumes that X
> varies linearly, which is only approximate but OK for high Q.
>
> altavoz had the right idea but was a bit sloppy, math-wise.
>
> Bill W0IYH

Forget the math, concept is that the function of Z with respect to
freq ( how Z changes when freq is changed) ,is highly non lin' and needs
a picture . And the picture takes 2nd seat to the pattern ( most important).

In spite of the fact 5/8 wl has a 2nd lobe greater than 1/2 wl , the 5/8
has more gain on the horizon . Its accidental that its also easier to load.

All ant's 180 degree radials.




______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!oport25.penn.com!not-for-mail
From: "Joseph B. Bitner" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need Cushcraft 70cm antenna stacking info
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 06:37:51 GMT
Organization: Berg Electronics
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: oport25.penn.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: oport25.penn.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Greetings,

Name here is Joe / N3IES.  Would someone happen to have the information to
stack a pair of 11 element Cushcraft beams?  I need to know how far apart
to put them, and whatever I need to know about building the phasing
harness.  I want to put them side by side, not over top of one another.

73, Joe




From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:32 1996
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From: "Bruce S. Howland" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: Minimum curve radius for 9913 coax?
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 02:36:14 -0500
Organization: IDS World Network Internet Access Service, [phone]
Lines: 12
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Michael Bruss wrote:
>
> What is the minimum curve radius for 9913 type cable (actually, it's
> 9086)?  I have the impression that if it is bent too sharply, its RF

The minimum bend radius should be _no less_ than 2-1/2 times the
diameter of the cable, according to the methods we used on sub
construction.  I think 9913 is .405" in diameter, so that would be 1.01"
minimum BR.  For me, that's too tight.  I generally double that just to
be safe.

73 cul8r -b-


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Frits Jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Beverage antenna question
Date: 8 Nov 1996 09:21:04 GMT
Organization: sni
Lines: 8
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To improve my recieving on 80M (have a full vertical), I need a better antenna
.
I can put up a 90 feet beverage streight. Will it do me any good?. Is it
posible to bent it like horizontal L. Then it can be some 120-130 feet. - Or
should I make some kind of rotatable coax loop to reduce and null out
interference. Please some advice

73, OZ2Q, Frits in COpenhagen



From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:34 1996
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From: Scott Ryan <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Unobtrusive scanning antenna
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 07:00:21 -0600
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 9
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Looking for advice on a unobtrusive, full-range (30-1000 MHz) scanning
antenna.  Due to restrictions in my development, I'd like to stay away
from a discone because of their visibility.

The antenna will be mounted in the clear approx. 25' from the ground.
I'm currently using a low price RS antenna  (cat #20-176).

One antenna I'm considering is the RS All-Band Ground Plane (cat
#20-014).


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:35 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fractenna
Date: 8 Nov 1996 13:09:43 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 10
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>Please restrict yourself to antennas on this newsgroup, or else you are
>likely to get quite a bit of e-mail;presumably unfavorable..

Generally rude nasty words generate nasty E-mail, not off subject posts.
This information is available in the screen where you sign on to
newsgroups AOL. Those are good guidelines to read and follow.


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Frenning)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HB9CV antenna experience on HF bands
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:23:20 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf, Denmark
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55muhl$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Kebsch) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>if you have made any experience with the HB9CV antenna on any HF band
>please let me know. We are planning to build one for the 40m band at
>our clubstation. We are thinking about this antenna design, because
>it has 2 elements, a very short boom (1/8 wavelength), is easy to
>build and has the same performance like a good 3 element yagi.
>
>The idea behind that is, if a 3 element yagi does not perform better
>than a HB9CV antenna, then there is no need to spend the money for
>three elements instead of two, for a 10m long boom instead of 5m and
>the rotator will be happy also ...
>
>What do you think about it?
>
>73 de Waldemar, DK3VN
>--
>E-Mail:  [e-mail] .. or .. Packet Radio:  DK3VN @ DB0NOS.#NRW.DEU.E
U
>Big antennas, high in the sky, are better than small ones, low!          [bfh
]
Our club (Fredrikssund) has built one for 40 meters, whish is being used
for field days.

This one is a lightweight version, which looks extreme weird when up there
(Gullwing shaped elements), but it is a formiddable DX antenna.

I wouldn't put one up up for permanent usage. It would have to be
constructed from extremely heavy materials, and would prabably weigh en
excess of 100 Kilograms (220 pounds)

vy 73 de OZ1PIF, Peter


*********************************   OZ1PIF  *****************************
Peter Frenning, UNIX Product Mgr., Siemens-Nixdorf DK, Ph.: [phone]
Snailmail: Dybendalsvaenget 3, 2630 Taastrup, Denmark, Fax: [phone]
                Email: [e-mail], (NERV: pfrenning.cph)
X400: C=DK; A=400NET; P=SCN; O=SNI; S=Frenning; G=Peter; OU1=CPH1; OU2=CC
***********  Come visit us on the web; URL http://www.sni.dk  ***********


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:38 1996
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From: David Cooley <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna (mobile) question
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 09:30:55 -0400
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 18
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Honest Joe wrote:
>
> I have two antenna mounted on my spare tire carrier about 12" apart.
> One is Vhf xmitting from 5-50 watts. The other is CB that is xmitting
> from12-20 watts. The cb is hardly ever on and neither are ever xmitted
> at same time.

Joe,
You do know that anything over 5 watts on CB is illegal...
Later,
Dave


--
=================================================================
David Cooley           A.K.A. N5XMT            [e-mail]
http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
=================================================================


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:40 1996
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From: Tom McDermott <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Need advice on rotator R&R
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 08:56:45 -0600
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Stan Huntting writes:

> >
> >My big concern is this: even though the weight of the
> >2-1/2" diam mast and antenna (combined weight of about
> >250 lb.., mostly ABOVE the thrust bearing) is born by
> >the thrust bearing, I think the rotator is essential
> >for lateral stability of the mast - I don't think the
> >thrust bearing can maintain the vertical alignment of
> >the mast by itself. Am I right? Is there a standard way
> >of stabilizing the lower end of the mast while the
> >rotator is removed and repaired (likely to be many
> >weeks)? I'd really rather not remove and reinstall the
> >antenna and mast.
>

        I had this same problem, and got a 2-foot length
of steel angle iron (about 2" x 2" sides, 3/8 thick) and mounted two
3" muffler clamps projecting outside the angle, and then
mounted one much smaller clamps on the same side.  I placed
the bottom flat on the tower rungs, and clamped the mast in the
3" clamps (I have a 3" mast, you might use smaller clamps).  Then
I used the other one clamp to secure the angle iron to one of the
tower legs (it projected out through the angle iron on the same
side and in the same direction as the mast clamps). This held a
*VERY* big antenna array quite securely through a number of subsequent
high winds.

      Up to thrust bearing
        ^
       ~ ~
       | |
       | |
       | ||
      <|=||  Muffler clamp
       | ||
      <|=||  Muffler clamp
       | |L______
       | |   O      Rest angle iron across two tower rungs.
       | |
       Mast  ^-- Tower rung



>
> >Also, if the hex set screws that fix the mast clamp
> >to the rotator output shaft are really frozen, what are
> >the methods (in order of increasing desperation) for
> >dealing with them - liquid wrench, EZ-out?


        I will echo Gary's comments on the hex screws that
bind the mast clamp to the mast.  The screw that bound the
mast clamp to the 'D' key on the rotator shadt was frozen,
and even drilling it out did not free the clamp (it merely
messed up the 'D' key enough so that it would not budge.  I
ended up hack-sawing off the rotator shaft.  There is little
room, so you need one of those mickey-mouse looking hacksaw blade
holders.  This whole episode took 7 hours on the top of the tower,
and is not highly recommended.

  -- Tom, N5EG


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (ernie)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTD: A good discone design 4 v/u
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 15:19:14 GMT
Organization: NetVision LTD.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts011p5.pop9a.netvision.net.il
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

Hi
I'm looking for a discone design to be duplicated.
Freq. rabge: 144 - 1200 Mhz.
Thanks for tips .
Isaac - 4Z4TL


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:43 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Pha
Date: 8 Nov 1996 15:21:27 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 31
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55ttmq$[e-mail]>
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In article <55ttmq$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>>What I'm really asking is what about a multiband system or short loaded
>verticals
>>that we little pistols use?
>
>I don't know of any way to build a multiband system which has a good
>pattern on more than one band.
>
>

Roy answered everything very well. I especially enjoyed his truism about
the resistor in the Wilkenson not getting hot or even being necessary when
the system is working, and getting hot and being required only when
something is out of whack.

Roy part of the splitter fantasia stems from the fact if 1/4 wl lines are
fed equal powers from the same impedance , the currents at the far end are
equal regardless of load. I never could figure out how that applies to
arrays with different reactaances at the load, since that changes the
electrical line length. But I've never looked at that system more than a
few minutes because I try to avoid resistors in an antenna system unless
they are in receiving antennas.

You can use a system (I use here) called cross fire phasing, but the
impedance problem in the elements still needs addressed. With cross-fire
feed the phasing is correct over octaves of BW, only element impedance
changes are the problem.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:44 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jason)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 15:21:33 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <55vi93$[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Kent Winrich <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Path:
> sol.caps.maine.edu!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-
hu
>b1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!posts.execpc.com!usenet
>From: Kent Winrich <[e-mail]>
>Newsgroups:
> rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.d
x,
>rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc
,r
>ec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
>Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member


[ BIG snip]..


yep... we really need to see this here in rec.radio.space..... geezz.

Jason     N1RWY


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:45 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jacobson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WT  GPS antenna info
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 09:45:30 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b10

I am interested in building antennas for GPS, and am having no luck in
finding the frequencies and polarities used by the GPS system. Any
information or pointers to info would be appreciated.

TNX
de KA0ZIL
Steve Jacobson
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 08 21:54:46 1996
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From: "Bob Smith" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.electronics.equipment
Subject: Re: BIRD 43 Help/Tutorial
Date: 8 Nov 1996 21:41:05 GMT
Organization: InternetMCI
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <01bbcdbd$92d58380$89ecbdcc@rsmith>
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>>>altavoz: Many slugs and $$$thousands of dollars later ......
WHY NOT BUY AN MFJ249/209 ?

No good above 150 Mhz!

altavoz <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<[e-mail]>...
Bob Smith wrote:
>
> Can someone kindly point me to a tutorial on the Bird 43 watt meter.
Just
> got one used without a manual.  They look very simple to use.
>
> I do have a RF Sampler fitted - what range out output does this have? -
> would hate to blow my frequency meter or o-scope.!
>
> Thanks a million for reading.
>
> --
> >>>>
> Bob Smith    N3FTU
> Atlanta, GA


altavoz: Many slugs and $$$thousands of dollars later ......
WHY NOT BUY AN MFJ249/209 ?

______End of text  from altavoz___________



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:07 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:15:47 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 7
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Paul H Lee's "Amatuer Radio Vert' antenna handbook" is the best
$10 you'll ever spend cause he's not affraid to disagree with
the almighty ARRL ! His main argument is that all antennas need
metal radials . And verts beat horiz antennas .
  His book has been out for a long time.

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:10 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: 12 Nov 1996 19:05:15 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <56ahpb$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]> writes
:
>altavoz wrote:
>> His main argument is that all antennas need metal radials .
>
>Hi Altavoz, where should I put the radials to make my 20m
>quad at 100ft work better? And how long would they have to be?
>And how many of them? And how much would they improve my
>presently existing gain?
>
>And do you reckon an antenna on a ship on salt water really
>needs metal radials? Or that ham's beam in New Zealand that
>is sitting on a cliff directly above salt water?
>
>> And verts beat horiz antennas .
>
>My 20m EDZ at 100ft has 10+dBi gain. How many radials would
>you have to put on a 20m vertical to achieve 10dBi gain?
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

In true Gilberr and Sullivan style....

I wonder if it is possible to get Altavoz assigned to a tour of duty as a Chie
f
Engineer at an AM broadcast station in the desert regions of Saudi Arabia or,
perhaps, the Gobi, or shudder, Western China!   Assign him the job of
covering a few hundred radial miles of desert with city grade and some
additional area at night, out about the fringe of city grade for a huundred
miles or so.

You know, nomadic nonsense... the message must get through.

We could even give him one of these CIA vertical antennas in a oil drum.
You know, the ones that inflate right out of the drum to a hundred fifty
feet high for clandestine temporary propaganda campaigns!   He could play
with one on a sliding up and down scale in real size up there!  He could
use it to scale his efforts to prove up his ideas on MF but at HF frequencies
for economy of scale.   Wire for radials is cheap; we can send him lots
of spools of it along with plenty of sandwiches and water, along with his
choice of all the liquor he can drink, if he is so inclined.

   :)

Midway through the project, decide to expand the site to a neat HF AM
world-wide propaganda service directed to North America, but restrict him
to vertical arrays.  Give him added responsiblity!

Tell him if he can't compete with the Greenville and Bethany sites on, shall
we say, a watt-for-watt basis, equivalent path to equivalent path, we will
begin flaying him daily until the signals get better.  That, along with reduci
ng
his sandwich and water rations to threshold survival levels, inversely also
effected by the presence of rain in the desert, will continue until he can
succeed at his efforts or recants ability to control far field support.

I wonder how long it will be before he repents?   And of what?

  :)


 //-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:11 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:37:35 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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altavoz wrote:
> His main argument is that all antennas need metal radials .

Hi Altavoz, where should I put the radials to make my 20m
quad at 100ft work better? And how long would they have to be?
And how many of them? And how much would they improve my
presently existing gain?

And do you reckon an antenna on a ship on salt water really
needs metal radials? Or that ham's beam in New Zealand that
is sitting on a cliff directly above salt water?

> And verts beat horiz antennas .

My 20m EDZ at 100ft has 10+dBi gain. How many radials would
you have to put on a 20m vertical to achieve 10dBi gain?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:12 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: 13 Nov 1996 01:47:50 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <56b9c6$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56ahpb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup544.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, "R. Fitzhugh" <Renaldo.Fitzhugh@worldnet.
att.net> writes:
>[e-mail] wrote:
 [e-mail]
>
>Out of deference to the good Captain Lee and a seemingly simple
>observation of Altavoz about VERTICAL antennas, you two fellows are too
>well versed in design to walk away from a point well made and add to the
>flack I've seen on this newsgroup.  Admittedly his overgeneralization
>may be inspired to draw criticism, but you guys grow close to consuming
>too much bandwidth and splattering.

    I appolgize.  You are correct.  I was wrong to post it...

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: "R. Fitzhugh" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:01:05 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56ahpb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.238.133.137
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In <[e-mail]>, "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]> writ
es:
> >altavoz wrote:
> >> His main argument is that all antennas need metal radials .
> >
> >Hi Altavoz, where should I put the radials to make my 20m
> >quad at 100ft work better? And how long would they have to be?
> >And how many of them? And how much would they improve my
> >presently existing gain?
> >
snip
> >
> >73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
>
> In true Gilberr and Sullivan style....
>
> I wonder if it is possible to get Altavoz assigned to a tour of duty as a Ch
ief
> Engineer at an AM broadcast station in the desert regions of Saudi Arabia or
,
> perhaps, the Gobi, or shudder, Western China!   Assign him the job of
> covering a few hundred radial miles of desert with city grade and some
> additional area at night, out about the fringe of city grade for a huundred
> miles or so.
snip
>
>  //-----------------------------
> Mike - W5WQN
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]

Out of deference to the good Captain Lee and a seemingly simple
observation of Altavoz about VERTICAL antennas, you two fellows are too
well versed in design to walk away from a point well made and add to the
flack I've seen on this newsgroup.  Admittedly his overgeneralization
may be inspired to draw criticism, but you guys grow close to consuming
too much bandwidth and splattering.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsbuffer.myriad.net!news.myriad.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: 13 Nov 1996 07:54:09 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <56bur1$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56ahpb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56b9c6$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup565.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, altavoz <[e-mail]> writes
:
>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> In <[e-mail]>, "R. Fitzhugh" <Renaldo.Fitzhugh@worldn
et.att.net> writes:
>> >[e-mail] wrote:
>>  [e-mail]

>I like his explaination of traps . The ARRL hb says "divorces" all
>above the trap which is crap ( not true). A trap transmits the power
>to the element above if that element is 1/2 wl .
>
>______End of text  from altavoz___________

Then we are, perhaps,

   back to semantics again, which is allright!  In a special case where
   material coupling occurs, it isn't quite a "trap", then, is it?

   :)

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:20 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:49:59 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56ahpb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56b9c6$[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In <[e-mail]>, "R. Fitzhugh" <Renaldo.Fitzhugh@worldne
t.att.net> writes:
> >[e-mail] wrote:
>  [e-mail]
> >
> >Out of deference to the good Captain Lee and a seemingly simple
> >observation of Altavoz about VERTICAL antennas, you two fellows are too
> >well versed in design to walk away from a point well made and add to the
> >flack I've seen on this newsgroup.  Admittedly his overgeneralization
> >may be inspired to draw criticism, but you guys grow close to consuming
> >too much bandwidth and splattering.
>
>     I appolgize.  You are correct.  I was wrong to post it...
>
> //-----------------------------
> Mike - W5WQN


The oversimplification about verts will become less oversimplification
as you read Pauls book because he contests what most think about verts.
  Its refreshing to read a book that does not say "me too, i
teach uncontroversial antennas"
 I like his explaination of traps . The ARRL hb says "divorces" all
above the trap which is crap ( not true). A trap transmits the power
to the element above if that element is 1/2 wl .

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!alison.sbc.edu!alison.sbc.edu!nntp
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: $10 antenna book from CQ magazine
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: "Kenneth D. Grimm" <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:59:36 -0500
Reply-To: [e-mail]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Sweet Briar College
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Cecil A. Moore wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> > His main argument is that all antennas need metal radials .
>
> Hi Altavoz, where should I put the radials to make my 20m
> quad at 100ft work better? And how long would they have to be?
> And how many of them? And how much would they improve my
> presently existing gain?
>
> And do you reckon an antenna on a ship on salt water really
> needs metal radials? Or that ham's beam in New Zealand that
> is sitting on a cliff directly above salt water?
>
> > And verts beat horiz antennas .
>
> My 20m EDZ at 100ft has 10+dBi gain. How many radials would
> you have to put on a 20m vertical to achieve 10dBi gain?
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


Brace yourself, Cecil.  For asking these questions you will surely
be accused...gasp...of generating Net Noise.

73,
Ken, K4XL
--


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:21 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: %%GIRLS WANT TO KNOW YOU!!!!
Date: 11 Nov 1996 17:23:38 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hey 'Taanya'--
is this you??


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Evan Hutchinson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 15 Nov 96 01:57:49 GMT
Organization: Open Com Inc.
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Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Originator: [e-mail]

add ham-ant



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 1/4 wave coax and switch box?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:47:21 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 29
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NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kb9cl.dialup.mindspring.com
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I am building a feed system for a quad with wires for 5 bands. My plan
is to run 1/4 wavelength of 72 ohm coax from each element to a switch
box on the boom. I will use a single 52 ohm coax from the switch box
to the shack. This will provide a match for about 113 ohms at the
antenna.

I trimmed a piece of 72 ohm coax to 1/4 wavelength using an Autek RF1
instrument getting Z=0 at a  design frequency of 21.150 Mhz with the
coax left open..

The switch box I have (from ICE) uses a few inches of copper strip to
make the switched connections between the coax connectors and relays.
I decided to find out how the switch box might change the tuning of a
quarter-wave coax transformer.

I found  with the  coax connected to the box, and the relay activated
to switch the coax to the common input connector, I get Z=20  ohms
with nothing else connected to the switch box. Sweeping the analyzer
to find where Z=0 yielded 18.700 Mhz.

The change is obviously due to the relay contacts and wiring inside
the switch box. My question is should I do anything about it? Should I
trim the coax to 1/4 wavelength with it attached to the box and
switched to the common coax input connector?

K5ESW

Paul
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:24 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/8 Wavelength Antennas
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:29:24 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 38
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Turnpike (evaluation) Version 3.01 <vPIC5CuyknR3CUk2Urj2HsHwi2>

In article <[e-mail]>, james wiedle
<[e-mail]> writes
>I'm looking to design a portable antenna for traveling and am thinking
>about designing a 1/8 wavelength antenna.  Although I've seen various
>obscure references to a 1/8 wavelength, I've yet to find any useful
>information on this length.  Does anybody have any information on using
>1/8 wavelengths?  Notably, what is their radiation resistance, angle of
>reflection, and what does one need to feed them.
>
>Thanks,
>
>James Wiedle
>WL7NO
Radiation resistance is proportional to the square of the length,
therefore 45 degrees has a radiation resistance of 9 ohms.  It will also
have capacitive reactance and a series inductor will be required to
bring it to resonance.  This can be fitted at the base or in the centre.
Additional series inductance will be needed to increase the terminal
impedance to match the feeder.  The effect of this adds unwanted
inductive component which can be cancelled by a shunt capacitoracross
the feeder.  Look up detail of L matching networks.
Warning- the radiation resistance is in series with the loss resistance
of the system (ie resistance of coil, element, and impedance of ground).
The losses will therefore be quite high.

The radiation pattern will be that of any short antenna ie a directivity
of 1.57.  The radiation angle above the horizontal will be determined by
the efficiency of its image formed in the groundplane.

Hope this helps

Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband Tim who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:25 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/8 Wavelength Antennas
Date: 10 Nov 1996 15:57:52 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 10
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz
<[e-mail]> writes:


>You need metal wire radails with a vert antenna and they will be 180
>degrees .

Won't that start a fire? That's pretty warm! Is that 180 degrees C or F??

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:26 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/8 Wavelength Antennas
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 22:10:51 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 50
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Mandy Wright wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, james wiedle
> <[e-mail]> writes
> >I'm looking to design a portable antenna for traveling and am thinking
> >about designing a 1/8 wavelength antenna.  Although I've seen various
> >obscure references to a 1/8 wavelength, I've yet to find any useful
> >information on this length.  Does anybody have any information on using
> >1/8 wavelengths?  Notably, what is their radiation resistance, angle of
> >reflection, and what does one need to feed them.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >James Wiedle
> >WL7NO
> Radiation resistance is proportional to the square of the length,
> therefore 45 degrees has a radiation resistance of 9 ohms.  It will also
> have capacitive reactance and a series inductor will be required to
> bring it to resonance.  This can be fitted at the base or in the centre.
> Additional series inductance will be needed to increase the terminal
> impedance to match the feeder.  The effect of this adds unwanted
> inductive component which can be cancelled by a shunt capacitoracross
> the feeder.  Look up detail of L matching networks.
> Warning- the radiation resistance is in series with the loss resistance
> of the system (ie resistance of coil, element, and impedance of ground).
> The losses will therefore be quite high.
>
> The radiation pattern will be that of any short antenna ie a directivity
> of 1.57.  The radiation angle above the horizontal will be determined by
> the efficiency of its image formed in the groundplane.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Mandy
> (Typing on behalf of my husband Tim who hates computers
> despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
> Sussex
> UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!
>
> Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/


Amaasing that neither of the above authors talked about the angle of
the radials ! 2nd talked about RADIATION RESISTANCE without talking
about them , therefore must intend to use earth gnd which is stupid.
You need metal wire radails with a vert antenna and they will be 180
degrees .


______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:27 1996
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From: "Tom C. Brown, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/8 Wavelength Antennas
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:14:42 -0600
Organization: Madison Materials Company
Lines: 9
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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> Won't that start a fire? That's pretty warm! Is that 180 degrees C or F??
>
> 73 Tom



Sure wouldn't want to step on one.....   :-)

73, Tom KJ5IE


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:28 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 11 meter antenna question--Help!
Date: 9 Nov 1996 00:14:38 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 18
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hello,
  I'm currently running a mobile 11-meter radio at home with a power
supply as a base.  I also occasionally use the unit in my car.  I have a
Radio Shack inline meter combo (SWR and Power) that I'm using for
comparason.
  The problem I'm having is that in the car, my output power on both AM
and SSB is almost exactly twice as much  as in the house.  My SWR is
perfect in both locations.  I've switched all the coax (RG-8) and ruled
out the power supply by trying both batteries and a 20Amp power supply.
I've also observed this phenomenon with another radio so I would think it
would rule out the problem being anything other than the antenna.
  Is it possible to have a good match and still have a bad antenna? I
would appreciate and other insight on this subject.

Thank you in advance for your time
Please respond by email

Rog


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:28 1996
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From: Jim S <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 11 meter antenna question--Help!
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:08:59 -0800
Organization: San Diego SuperComputer Center at UCSD
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References: <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]

Hi Rog... I'll respond by both e-mail and news because it
may be interesting to some others..

One possible problem could be the method of measuring power. Assuming
that you have a reasonable match between the antenna system and the
radio, there still could be differences that make it look like there is
more power in one case than another.  The simpliest way to demonstrate
this is by example.  Suppose that you had two antenna systems with an SWR
of 1.5:1.  But perhaps one system is 75 ohms and the other is 33.3 ohms
resistive (dissregard any the possibility of reactance for now).  In this
case, the rf voltage to one system is considerably different than the
other for the same power out.  Assuming 4 watts, the rms voltage in one
case would be 1.5 times as large as the other... And now is the problem..
The power meter that you are using, most probably, is simply a peak or
average rectified voltage meter with a nonlinear scale painted on the
face to represent power with an assumed load of 50 ohms.  The ratio of
indicated powers would be 1.5 squared or about 2.25 greater in one case
than the other.

There is another possibility.  Most of these radios have self protection
circuits that automatically limit the output power based on what the
radio sees as a load.  If this circuit is out of calibration, it may
actually be reducing the output power in one case but not another.

Good luck..Jim WA6SEW

 [e-mail] wrote:
> would rule out the problem being anything other than the antenna.
> Is it possible to have a good match and still have a bad antenna? I
> would appreciate and other insight on this subject.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (J. Meade)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160 Meter Antenna
Date: 10 Nov 96 22:59:26 GMT
Organization: The University of Iowa
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: black.weeg.uiowa.edu

I need an antenna to work 2220.  Any suggestions?  Length is not a
factor, as I'm on a farm.  I do want it easy to make and maintain.  It
could be up to 35 feet high or so, if necessary, without going to a tower.
--

Jim - Farmer - Iowa City, IA,
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Babineau)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160 Meter Antenna
Date: 11 Nov 1996 16:59:31 GMT
Organization: Nortel, Ottawa, Canada
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <567m1j$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bmerhbc3.bnr.ca

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
u (J. Meade) writes:
|> I need an antenna to work 2220.  Any suggestions?  Length is not a
|> factor, as I'm on a farm.  I do want it easy to make and maintain.  It
|> could be up to 35 feet high or so, if necessary, without going to a tower.
|> --
|>
|> Jim - Farmer - Iowa City, IA,
|> [e-mail]
|>

You might look at an inverted L. Should be lots of info on this in
ARRL Antenna Book, and definately in W1FBs Antenna Notebook (great book
btw). Many people have had good success with this antenna with a less than
perfect ground (ie using one or two ground rods rather than an
extensive radial system).

Michael
VE3WMB



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:31 1996
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From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160 Meter Antenna
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:45:36 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: "J. Meade" <[e-mail]>

J. Meade wrote:
>
> I need an antenna to work 2220.  Any suggestions?  Length is not a
> factor, as I'm on a farm.  I do want it easy to make and maintain.  It
> could be up to 35 feet high or so, if necessary, without going to a tower.
> --
>
> Jim - Farmer - Iowa City, IA,
> [e-mail]

Half-way dipole would do fine.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:32 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160m vertical
Date: 10 Nov 1996 04:43:55 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <563haf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <563haf$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](David M. Arruzza) writes:

>
>Maximum height 40'
>prefer top loaded designs
>cage vertical systems for increased bandwidth o.k.

Hi Dave,

The cage will make little difference in bandwidth. It's not a length to
diameter problem, it's a field boundry condition problem at the antenna's
top.

If you want both a broad bandwidth and efficient antenna, the electric
field at the top of the antenna needs to be spread out over a wide area.
This is usually done by using a large non-radiating hat for loading.

An antenna using multiple straight equal length wires extending from the
top like spokes will accomplish this the best. Such a system will be of
nearly identical efficiency to a 1/4 vertical, and will have very wide
bandwidth. The top loading wires can even be used to guy the antenna.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:33 1996
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From: [e-mail](David M. Arruzza)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160m vertical
Date: 10 Nov 1996 03:14:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <563haf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nhv-ct1-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Nov 09  9:14:23 PM CST 1996

i need a design for a shortened 160 meter vertical.

Maximum height 40'
prefer top loaded designs
cage vertical systems for increased bandwidth o.k.


i already have a .2 wavelength radial system in place
60 radials for 160 meters

radial system was for 3/8 wave inverted L for 160 but support tree fell
during a storm.


thanks...

Dave WA1UUD


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:33 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160m vertical
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:37:54 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 9
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References: <563haf$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
> The top loading wires can even be used to guy the antenna.

Hi Tom, if one does that, presumably the top loading wires
would not be horizontal. So my question is: what is the minimum
effective angle between the top loading wires and the vertical
antenna?

thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:34 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160m vertical
Date: 11 Nov 1996 19:32:04 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 18
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Hi Tom, if one does that, presumably the top loading wires
>would not be horizontal. So my question is: what is the minimum
>effective angle between the top loading wires and the vertical
>antenna?
>
>thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

The ideal angle is 90 degrees above the horizon, the worst -90 degrees,
hi.

Current drops off rapindly in the wire, so even a 45 degree angle won't
hurt much.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Clay Whiffen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160m vertical
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:58:50 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <569vql$[e-mail]>
References: <563haf$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82


>Hi Dave,

>The cage will make little difference in bandwidth. It's not a length to
>diameter problem, it's a field boundry condition problem at the antenna's
>top.

>If you want both a broad bandwidth and efficient antenna, the electric
>field at the top of the antenna needs to be spread out over a wide area.
>This is usually done by using a large non-radiating hat for loading.

>An antenna using multiple straight equal length wires extending from the
>top like spokes will accomplish this the best. Such a system will be of
>nearly identical efficiency to a 1/4 vertical, and will have very wide
>bandwidth. The top loading wires can even be used to guy the antenna.

>73 Tom
Tom, I have admired your understanding of antenna theory but in this
case you have exceeded my comprehension.  I modeled, on EZNEC, top
loaded and unloaded verticals with vertical diameters of #12 wire and
10" , with both a single top wire and 4 top symmetrical wires.  In all
cases the bandwidth was almost doubled with the larger diameter.
However, the 4 top wires produced 40% wider bandwidth.  Where's the
rub??  Is it a limitation of EZNEC or what?  73 Clay, K3IX. (was
KF4IX)



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Forrest T. Charnock)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 3/8 wave antenna?
Date: 9 Nov 1996 23:45:41 GMT
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        How do 3/8 wave antennas perform?  Do they need a ground plane?

--
*************************************************************************
Olin Physical Lab        Wake Forest University         Winston-Salem, NC
  *   *   *      http://www.wfu.edu/~charnoft     KE4RJG      *   *   *
 All science is either physics or stamp collecting.  --Ernest Rutherford



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:37 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 3/8 wave antenna?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:21:22 -0700
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Forrest T. Charnock wrote:
>
> How do 3/8 wave antennas perform?  Do they need a ground plane?

HF/VHF/UHF? Horizontal/vertical? Mobile/fixed? Centerfed/endfed?
This would be a very, very long response unless you supply some
boundary conditions.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:38 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 3/8 wave antenna?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:53:49 -0800
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To: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>

Cecil A. Moore wrote:
>
> Forrest T. Charnock wrote:
> >
> > How do 3/8 wave antennas perform?  Do they need a ground plane?
>
> HF/VHF/UHF? Horizontal/vertical? Mobile/fixed? Centerfed/endfed?
> This would be a very, very long response unless you supply some
> boundary conditions.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


altavoz: They dont work as well as 5/8 wl in most cases but
if you're talking 160 or 80 meters then maybe a 3/8 wave is ok
( cause you're not rich enough to erect a 5/8 wl at 80m ! )

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Forrest T. Charnock)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 3/8 wave antenna?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 21:33:52 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
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altavoz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Cecil A. Moore wrote:
: >
: > Forrest T. Charnock wrote:
: > >
: > > How do 3/8 wave antennas perform?  Do they need a ground plane?
: >
: > HF/VHF/UHF? Horizontal/vertical? Mobile/fixed? Centerfed/endfed?
: > This would be a very, very long response unless you supply some
: > boundary conditions.
: >
: > 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
:

        Sorry, I underestimated the number of perturbations.  Let's say VHF,
vertical, mobile, fixed, endfed.  More to the point, I was thinking of getting

one for my HT and was wondering how it would perform compared to say a 1/2 wav
e
dipole.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Markham)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: : How to Build A Rhombic?
Date: 15 Nov 96 02:18:30 GMT
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  I attended the Central States VHF Conference in Bloomington, Mn.
earlier this year and saw a dual rhomboid blow the doors off the
competition on 1296 mhz. ( Well, whupped  'em, anyway).  The
antenna looked homebrew and to my untutored eyes held little
hope of being competitive. I was mistaken.

  Does anyone know of a readily available reference for such an
antenna?

  The results of the antenna "shootout" may be found, with other
interesting info, at:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m042/liebe009/CSVHFHOM.HTML

                       Pete/wa4hei


  The meek will not inherit the Earth.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (John 015)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: [Q] Shape of a very long rhombic ?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:57:43 EST
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Hi,

I have a question.  Long wire (l = n x wl) antennas become
somewhat unidirectional:

The "V" antenna radiates into the "forward direction",
the rhombic ("double V) even more so.  Conceptually
I could build a very long rhombic.  Am I right in assuming
that the angle between the wires should approach 0'
and that the limit when "wire-length goes to infinity"
is a say 300 ohms twin-lead terminated into 300 ohms ?
Intuition tells me that the twinlead wouldn't radiate in
the forward direction so just exactly what does a "very long"
rhombic look like.


Thanks,
John


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:43 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:10:09 -0800
Organization: none
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Madjid VE2GMI wrote:
>
> > P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt)^2)
>

Because of the drift velocity (mobility =.002) of electrons in antenna
wire, to try to explain antenna bahavior in terms of electron
acceleration and particle physics seems to me to be a lot more
Einsteinian (and pretentious) than is necessary or useful. It is the wave
motion on the wires that is important.  The voltage and current waves
move with a phase velocity near the speed of light (velocity factor of .5
to .9). These waves and the electric and magnetic fields that they
create, using Faraday's and Ampere's laws, make an antenna work.  If you
want to really get so fouled up that you can go bananas, all you have to
do is get immersed in the charged particle quagmire. The original
question by Rick K1BQT was "how to explain antenna behavior in terms of
charged particle acceleration". The answer is "forget it, it ain't worth
the effort unless you want to put up with a lot of arcane and obscure
(and questionable) physics falderal!".

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 10 Nov 1996 20:48:00 GMT
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RE: Bill's comment

Wrong person Bill-- I brought up the question (and thread) based upon the
assertion that an electron that changes its speed along a straight line is
the best accelerator--to paraphrase Tom, W8JI.

So the question--re posed--is: do accelerating charges have a sense (to be
anthropromorphic) of whether the acceleration is caused by a change in
SPEED or a change in DIRECTION? Is changing direction any less valid than
changing speed to get accelerating electrons (which then radiate)?

I am following everyone's answers with keen interest and thank all for
them. I know the answer to this but am curious what others have to say.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:45 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 11 Nov 1996 02:19:21 GMT
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Hi Tom,

No; I make the 'claim' based on field strengths AND radiation
resistances--measured and modelled at the current antinode-- incorporating
wire losses. Please review previous postings so as not to be overly
redundant. I still state as a matter of fact that a self-similar loop, at
its lowest resonance, has a higher radiation resistance and field strength
than a comparable euclidean loop. This has nothing to do with apparent
definition convention differences of radiation resistance, such as you
allude to in some of  my articles. Furthermore, Linden and Altschuler's
7-wire antenna (the Microwave Journal article), for example,  is an
OPTIMIZED antenna which makes plenty of twist and turns. That includes
field strength and bandwidth, quantities at least related to radiation
resistance. You may wish to get a copy of their article and review it for
your edification. I will get you the exact reference if you wish to make
an effort to obtain it and review it, and if asked will share it under a
thread of '7 wire antenna'. You might find that experience more
enlightening than sparring with me.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:46 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 10 Nov 1996 23:09:26 GMT
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Hi Bill

If I interpret your anwer correctly, you are saying:

In politics, follow the money.
In antennas, follow the current.

And--above all--echew obfuscation.

Rick



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:47 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:35:18 -0800
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[e-mail] wrote:

> I brought up the question (and thread) based upon the
> assertion that an electron that changes its speed along a straight line is
> the best accelerator--to paraphrase Tom, W8JI.
>

This seems to be true. A field that accelerates in a straight line, like
an electric field, greatly increases the kinetic energy, therefore easily
produces radiation. A field such as a magnetic field that accelerates in
a circle adds no kinetic energy and emits only a very small amount of
radiation unless the speed of the particle is *very* close to the speed
of light. Madjid suggests an alternate viewpoint on this last item, but I
am not able to understand it too well and have decided to get on with
trying to understand things from a more macroscopic (Maxwellian) point of
view, which satisfies my engineer's mentality.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:50 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 11 Nov 1996 01:35:41 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>
>Wrong person Bill-- I brought up the question (and thread) based upon the
>assertion that an electron that changes its speed along a straight line
is
>the best accelerator--to paraphrase Tom, W8JI.

Actually Rick did initially, then Chip repeated later.

>So the question--re posed--is: do accelerating charges have a sense (to
be
>anthropromorphic) of whether the acceleration is caused by a change in
>SPEED or a change in DIRECTION? Is changing direction any less valid than
>changing speed to get accelerating electrons (which then radiate)?

Bill is correct. Looking at it from such a small level is almost silly
when considering an antenna or transmission line.

Chip has published articles claiming overall conductor length, even though
all folded up, increases radiation efficiency. Much like in the process of
osmosis increase surface area speeds the transfer of molecules through a
membrane.

I tried to explain to Chip that surface area has nothing to do with
radiation effects, it is simply the net effect of charge movement due to
vector addition of the radiation fields of every charge accelerated. So if
one charge group accelerates left and another right at a location where
the vector (phase shift due to the speed of light delay in propagation of
the effects) is zero, the net radiation effect in that direction is zero.

I expanded that to say the most efficient radiator, in a given volume of
space, is one that accelerates charges uniformly in a straight line over
that distance, provided that spatial distance between the points is not
large enough to cause phase delay in the radiation effect in the direction
of concern. Anything done to delay phase, or zig zag the charges back and
forth in micro-folds, simply reduces radiation by requiring more charge
movement through more dissipative conductor resistance.

In other words, the small antenna best coupling power to space (highest
radiation resistance) is a radiator having uniform in-phase current over
the largest spatial area. This is shown by Kraus in his formulas for small
loop antennas, but Chip seems to feel if the same perimiter loop was made
with hundreds of tiny in and out folds, to increase surface area, it would
radiate better. At least that was his claim in Communications Quarterly.

He based that claim on feedpoint resistance changes, calling the feedpoint
resistance radiation resistance. I tried to point out radiation resistance
is almost never the same as feedpoint resistance in a real world antenna,
and is of little importance in estimating efficiency changes unless the
loss resistance is measured as the system transforms it to the same point.

Surface area is totally unimportant since it is the vector addition of
radiation from accelerating charges, as viewed at a distant point, that
determines radiation intensity.
That was the point that brought the house down.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 11 Nov 1996 02:24:02 GMT
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RE: Bringing house down

I'm confused: are you saying that a self-similar loop brings the house
down? I wasn't aware that this was anything more than a step in the
continuum of knowledge, something you have quite a bit of, but like me and
everyone else, could use some more.

73
Chip N1IR.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:52 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 11 Nov 1996 06:50:19 GMT
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Hi Chip,

Please forgive me, my patience was a little thin. My post sounded too
personal when I re-read it..

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>Hi Tom,
>
>No; I make the 'claim' based on field strengths AND radiation
>resistances--measured and modelled at the current antinode--
incorporating
>wire losses. Please review previous postings so as not to be overly
>redundant.

There is too much to review. It would be more simple to clarify how you
measured that effect, and what the reference antenna and measurement
method was. Can you describe just one antenna?

I can think of no way to increase efficiency other than by lowering loss,
and no way to increase directivity without lowering radiation resistance
(by IRE standards using the effective current).

I would be interested in any antenna that does, but in 30 years I've yet
to see one.If you could give one example that would be great.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:52 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: 11 Nov 1996 16:50:20 GMT
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Hi Tom,

I think the best way is for you to model this on EZNEC. See my 4 Oct
posting and you should be able to replicate.

I would be genuinely interested in your thoughts on the 7-wire.

73 Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:53 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Accelerating Charges
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:45:43 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
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To: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>

William E. Sabin wrote:
>
> Madjid VE2GMI wrote:
> >
> > > P =  2/3 e^2/c Gamma^6 ( (dBeta/dt)^2 -(Beta x dBeta/dt)^2)
> >
>
> Because of the drift velocity (mobility =.002) of electrons in antenna
> wire, to try to explain antenna bahavior in terms of electron
> acceleration and particle physics seems to me to be a lot more
> Einsteinian (and pretentious) than is necessary or useful. It is the wave
> motion on the wires that is important.  The voltage and current waves
> move with a phase velocity near the speed of light (velocity factor of .5
> to .9). These waves and the electric and magnetic fields that they
> create, using Faraday's and Ampere's laws, make an antenna work.  If you
> want to really get so fouled up that you can go bananas, all you have to
> do is get immersed in the charged particle quagmire. The original
> question by Rick K1BQT was "how to explain antenna behavior in terms of
> charged particle acceleration". The answer is "forget it, it ain't worth
> the effort unless you want to put up with a lot of arcane and obscure
> (and questionable) physics falderal!".
>
> Bill W0IYH

I did not write that Bill, someone else did. That was just
a "citation".

Madjid, VE2GMI


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
From: "Bob Dye" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.digital,aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.packet,in.ham-radio,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: AEA DSP-232, Azimuth/Elevation rotor, & SatTrak IV Tracking Box
Date: 14 Nov 1996 02:55:11 GMT
Organization: kc4hdk
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <01bbd1d7$1b650640$fd14e3c7@robert-j.-dye>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pslfl4-62.gate.net
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Xref: news1.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.digital:269 aus.radio.amateur.misc:1507 in.ham-radio:376 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31547 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20075 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42283 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118160 rec.radio.amateur.space:8815

I have a DSP-232 and a SatTrak IV for sale.  Never opened,
I purchased them new and never got into satellite.  I sold my
Yaesu 736 now have no use for them.  I also have a Yaesu G-5400
Azimuth/Elevation Rotor that was put up outside for only 6 months.

Please e-mail me or call.

Bob
[e-mail]
561-552-3114 voice mail



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!hwfn!james!aa490
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milawski)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:14:55 GMT
Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <5652if$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN]

[e-mail] wrote:

: Interesting question: Anybody have far field comparisons of a 5/8 whip
: (say at cellular) compared to a 1/4 wave? Incorporating the real-world
: multipath, what DO you find? This is of especial interest because most
: line of sight paths to cell phones--at least in urban environments--are
: NOT at the horizon, but at launch angles from 10-60 degrees! (Depending on
: car elevation and distance from cell.) (Just think about where they stick
: those cells).

   For what it's worth... my vehicle recently had the 5/8wave antenna
broken off, and as a temporary fix I installed a 1/4wave whip mounted
in the same place (center of a van roof, which has ample metal surface).
The match was roughly the same, and although the coverage wasn't perceived
to suffer, an increase in "picket fencing" was experienced.

: see you need a very large GP to get the 3 dB gain at low launch angles.

   Makes you wonder how well those 5/8wave "through-glass" types
really work...

 Paul VE3CSY



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!news1.rcsntx.swbell.net!news2.digex.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Barry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Altavoz et al.
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:00:06 -0500
Organization: Anderson Desktop Publishing
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55t490$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dcc02685.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v1.01

In article <55t490$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
> [e-mail] (Barry Anderson) shared these priceless pearls of
> wisdom:
>  amateur radio has always
> ->considered itself a fraternal organization.
>
> I'm sure the antenna wench would take exception to the "fraternal" without
> the "sororical".
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
> RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
> Grass Valley CA 95945   |
> http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
> [e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor
>
>
Jim ...

    I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out my narrow outlook in
todays diversified world.

Barry  (PS - I like to fly, too !!)
--
Barry Anderson K3SUI
Frederick, MD. 21702
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!jaring.my!news2.jaring.my!usenet
From: Mandy Chan Min Wai <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna !
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:38:52 +0800
Organization: Chong Hwa High School Computer Association 1996
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: j8.brf7.jaring.my
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,

    Do anyone know how to make an antenna suitable for UHF. Basically I
need the instruction to build it at home usage, or maybe someone would
teach me how ro make a parabolic disc ! Thank for your kindly to read
this.
--
lekern (http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4166/)
dcmwai
please visit my homepage
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/6389
AND Please visit my school home page, at the same visit Computer
association homepage also
http://www.jaring.my/chkl/welcome.htm
or
http://www.jaring.my/chkl/chca/
Oh I haven't any time to update my home page please go later.....
-end-


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:58 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!minerva.ibernet.es!news.ctv.es!usenet
From: "Xavier Pedrerol - EA3BHK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna design software
Date: 13 Nov 1996 20:57:46 GMT
Organization: C.T.V.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <01bbd1a5$0b2984e0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ctv3106.ctv.es
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Hi all, can you help me? I'm seeking a good program for antenna
design, parameters, etc in windows and shareware.

Thanks in advance, 73 de Xavier, EA3BHK
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna design software
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:37:28 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd1a5$0b2984e0$[e-mail]> <56guu4$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:24:29 GMT, [e-mail] (Dudley
Chapman) wrote:

>"Xavier Pedrerol - EA3BHK" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>Hi all, can you help me? I'm seeking a good program for antenna
>>design, parameters, etc in windows and shareware.
>
>>Thanks in advance, 73 de Xavier, EA3BHK
>>[e-mail]
>
>Xavier,
>    you cannot beat MN from K6STI, or ELNEC.  Both are excellent.  You
>will find them both advertised in QST in the back.  Small adds.  My
>personal experience is using MN and have made extensive comparisions
>to NEC2 and NEC3.  However, I have no experience with ELNEC, but you
>will find many antenna experts using it.
>
>dudley

Xavier, before you buy K6STIs  modeling program check out ELNEC by
W7EL .  In my opinion, and many others, "ELNEC" is by far the easiest
to use and without peer when it comes to support from it's author
(W7EL).  I believe more non-experts (myself included) use these
modeling programs than "experts".
73, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:56:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna design software
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:24:29 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56guu4$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd1a5$0b2984e0$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 05:26:28 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Xavier Pedrerol - EA3BHK" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hi all, can you help me? I'm seeking a good program for antenna
>design, parameters, etc in windows and shareware.

>Thanks in advance, 73 de Xavier, EA3BHK
>[e-mail]

Xavier,
    you cannot beat MN from K6STI, or ELNEC.  Both are excellent.  You
will find them both advertised in QST in the back.  Small adds.  My
personal experience is using MN and have made extensive comparisions
to NEC2 and NEC3.  However, I have no experience with ELNEC, but you
will find many antenna experts using it.

dudley



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:01 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Modeling Software
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 21:30:12 -0500
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55lrka$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamicppp-8.hip.cam.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)

Merv Stump wrote:
>
> Anyone used or know anything about NECWin.  It is supposedly Windows 95
> software based on NEC2.  Made by Paragon Technology, which based on
> their address has some association with Penn State.  There are two
> versions:  NECWin-Basic which is under $100; and NECWin-Pro which is
> around $100.  I have the brochure on the "Pro" and it looks
> impressive.  Waiting for one on the "Basic" version.
>
> Any one using either of the products?

Hi Merv,

I think you are the guy who "almost" convinced VE2HQ to get
NEC-WIN. He asked me last night what I thought about it and
I answered that I may be biased (because I wrote a MININEC for
windows program) but that I would not recommend NEC-WIN Basic
to anyone novice or experienced modeler.

1. It is just a front end shell or an interface for NEC2. The
program prepares a file and .. then runs a DOS NEC2 program
as a shell. All other programs to display patterns, 3D etc
are also shelled.

2. The interface is terrible for an antenna designer. Some
operations require so much clickin and sub-menus that you
almost loose track of what you wanted to do in the first
place. Displaying Patterns is arduous and complicated.

3. The program has a bad tendency to "Exitus fastus" for
mysterious reasons which cannot be reproduced.
I checked if it swallowed memory or something like that,
but it must be some stack overflow when shelling or other
esoteric bug. This is a very bad symptom for most software
designers. Writting a Shell program or a front end to run
a DOS program is not really complicated and I just ????

My "biased" opinion is that the program was designed by
"amateurs" (Sorry guys) or students maybe. The interface
seemed user-unfriendly and unintuitive. It seemed designed
by someone who does not use antenna modeling programs to
model and design antennas, but more as an "Exercice de style".
Results are stored in a NEC2 output file, and you don't see
on your display the impedance(s). Patterns are stored and
displayed by a reasonably good display engine. 3D is okay.

It was told that they have a "Professional version" which is
almost the same except that it takes more pulses and segments.
If it is also a Shell to DOS, the price ($400 plus) is way too
high. I have never seen that version however and can't give a
serious opinion on that.

You have shareware or freeware programs who prepare the
data for NEC2 somewhere on the Web for 1/10 of that price.
I think it is called NDCAP (Nec data capture). I have a
copy somewhere on my hard disks (2 Gb "temple of doom")
if you need it.

I repeat, I am judge and party, so you may have to take
advice from real customers of Paragon.

73s Madjid :)

PS: Check my page. In the Hamlinks "pictures" you can see
some pictures of VE2HQ's antennas and towers. Very impressive!
-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:01 1996
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From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:14:04 -0800
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55nhp9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bill_harwood.chinalake.navy.mil
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC)

Bea and Marvin Jones wrote:
>
> Marc Illsley Clarke ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : >>>>> "Manning" == The Manning's <[e-mail]> writes:
> : In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> "The Manning'
s" <[e-mail]> writes:
> :     Manning> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto
> :     Manning> the tower. It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of
> :     Manning> getting the antenna to the top. thanks
> :     Manning> [e-mail]
> : I loved your post, but suspect the word you were looking for was
> : "winch", true?
>
> Which brings to mind an ad in the Denver Post many years ago:
>
>    For Sale: Jeep 4wd with 2,000 lb wench.
>
> 73
> Jonesy W3DHJ
> __
> SK


I think I dated her once  8^)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (nstn2527)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 10 Nov 1996 16:08:47 GMT
Organization: NSTN Navigator User
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <564umf$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55nhp9$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2-11.lwn.istar.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>Bea and Marvin Jones wrote:
>>
>> Marc Illsley Clarke ([e-mail]) wrote:
>> : >>>>> "Manning" == The Manning's <[e-mail]> writes:
>> : In article <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> "The
Manning's" <[e-mail]> writes:
>> :     Manning> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto
>> :     Manning> the tower. It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of
>> :     Manning> getting the antenna to the top. thanks
>> :     Manning> [e-mail]
>> : I loved your post, but suspect the word you were looking for was
>> : "winch", true?
>>
>> Which brings to mind an ad in the Denver Post many years ago:
>>
>>    For Sale: Jeep 4wd with 2,000 lb wench.
>>
>> 73
>> Jonesy W3DHJ
>> __
>> SK
>
>
>I think I dated her once  8^)


All the foregoing very amusing but I wonder if anyone got around to
answering the original poster's question re source for a winch?

Les



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:03 1996
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From: "Thor Wiegman" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 11 Nov 1996 00:16:01 GMT
Organization: Sierra-Net
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <01bbcf65$11f472e0$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crystal-d9.sierra.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155


: > Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
: > It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
:
:
: Are you looking for a "winch" or a "wench"?  If it's the latter I think
you may want to
: look in some of the alt.* newsgroups. <G>
:

What a great idea tho.....no expensive motors to wear out, no need to step
out of the shack during the rain.  Most of us might even have a wench just
sitting around that we could apply to the task.  Well, I would write more
on the subject but I have to run right now as I'm dodging heavy objects
comming from the direction of my wench.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.usit.net!col-max83.dynamic.usit.net!user
From: [e-mail] (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:36:35 -0600
Organization: United States Internet, Inc.
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <01bbcf65$11f472e0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: col-max83.dynamic.usit.net

In article <01bbcf65$11f472e0$[e-mail]>, "Thor Wiegman"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> : > Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
> : > It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
> :
> :
> : Are you looking for a "winch" or a "wench"?  If it's the latter I think
> you may want to
> : look in some of the alt.* newsgroups. <G>
> :
>
> What a great idea tho.....no expensive motors to wear out, no need to step
> out of the shack during the rain.  Most of us might even have a wench just
> sitting around that we could apply to the task.  Well, I would write more
> on the subject but I have to run right now as I'm dodging heavy objects
> comming from the direction of my wench.
>

Years ago I knew a man that would not buy a rotator for his beam antenna,
rather whenever he wanted to turn it he sent his wife, spouse, wench,
walking rotator, mother of his children (no dought about this one), keeper
of the compass, or what ever he wanted to call her when he was sober

Charles   KD4HHX


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hp-pcd!hpbs2500.boi.hp.com!bblohm
From: [e-mail] (Bill Blohm)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 11 Nov 1996 22:51:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co.
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <568am2$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <55nhp9$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <564umf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpbs1686.boi.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.9]

nstn2527 ([e-mail]) wrote:

: All the foregoing very amusing but I wonder if anyone got around to
: answering the original poster's question re source for a winch?

The "wench" caught my eye, looked in to see how many jumped on that.

However, why does he need a winch? Couldn't he get by with a pulley
system hooked up to a truck or car? I've used such a setup when I needed
to lift something but didn't have a winch. For a tower, say a pulley at
the top fed to the car via a pulley at the base so to eliminate danger
from pulling sideways directly from the top.

73 de Bill, KC7JSD


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:06 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news-in.iadfw.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Rob Freyder)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 00:57:46 GMT
Organization: Very Organized!
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 143.91.159.228
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

"The Manning's" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
>It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
>thanks
>[e-mail]
>

god I have been laughing for 10 minutes uncontrollably.
This is fantastic.  We could sell millions of these.


Buwaaahaaaahaaa!



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:06 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:41:49 -0500
Organization: No Junk E-mail
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbca78$57cd9e00$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d00018.mco.bellsouth.net
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Gerhart Hlawatsch wrote:
>
> The Manning's wrote:
> >
> > Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
> > It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
> > thanks
> > [e-mail]
>
> Not my mothertongue! please, what is the difference between
> a winch and a wench?
>
> Best regards, Gerhart

It is sad but true some things lose their charm or meaning when
translated from one language to another.

winch - a machine for hauling, lifting or pulling.

wench - a female servant or lewd woman.

pht


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 15 Nov 1996 01:36:34 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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A 'winch' keeps your ANTENNA up.

A 'wench' keeps your SPIRITS up.

(cudn't resist!)
73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:10 1996
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From: Eric Gagnon <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:03:47 -0500
Organization: Quebec Telephone
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The Manning's wrote:
>
> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
> It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the top.
> thanks
> [e-mail]
it's the best way i know to put antenna on a tower

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From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Mary-frances R Bartels, Computer Specialist, Denver, CO )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: antenna wench
Date: 14 Nov 96 22:49:08 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


I submitted the following about a week ago, but for some reason, it never
made it in as far as I can tell.  One small modification... I will be
installing the G5RV this weekend.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Let's see.  I've installed dual-band antennas in my attic and on my car.
I've used a J-Pole for remote operation.  In a few weeks I'll be
installing a G5RV in my tree (one end of it at least).  This Spring I
hope to install a tri-band HF beam on a tower.  Does that make me an
antenna wench?  (I'm walking into this discussion willingly and with my
eyes open.)

BTW, I have no problems with amateur radio being called a fraternity.  I
know there are a lot of (X)YLs in the hobby, but speaking for me
personally, I don't expect OMs to change their terms just because I'm in
the hobby.  I guess you could call me UnPC.
                                                  73,

     ^     ^                   |      Mary-Frances R. Bartels
      ^ - ^                  --|--    Amateur Radio Callsign:  KI0DZ
      (o o)                  --|--    "Owner and Operator" of Rudolph's
     {  |  }                 --|--    Rabbit Ranch
        "    \                 |      Independent Rep. of Watkins Inc.
      |  |    \                |      [phone]   [e-mail]
     <  <   <   )*   |-------------|
                     | o o o [___] |
                     | L L L ( O ) |
                     |_____________|
                        ^       ^





From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 13:39:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
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Lines: 17

TM> Looking for an antenna wench to raise my beams up onto the tower.
TM> It's not a crank-up, so I need a way of getting the antenna to the t
TM> thanks
TM> [e-mail]

Heh!  I know you meant "winch", but to get some answers
you need to tell us what kind of forces are involved.
What is the weight you are dealing with?

Winches are rated for pulling force and the price
goes up fast with that force.  Another question:
muscle power or motor?  If motor, what electric
power source?
//
 k2bt

 * RM 1.3 02583 * Computer Lie #1: You'll never use all that disk space.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:15 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna wench
Date: 14 Nov 1996 15:58:51 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 3
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

A winch is a device consisting of a spool on which a cable or rope is
wound and used for raising or lowering heavy objects.  A wench is a woman,
usually of loose morals.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Mike A. Frye)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 13 Nov 1996 02:22:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <56bbdj$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lbx-ca3-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 12  8:22:43 PM CST 1996

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:
>
>A Dipole will out perform a A99. A99 is highly overrated with
exaurated
>Gain figures it Basically is a Dipole mounted Vertical


The A99 is an end fed half wave with a skinny piece of wire inside and
cheap fiberglass that splinters apart in less than a year. Otherwise it
works OK. M!


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.afn.org!afn17891
From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:48:36 -0500
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.afn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
NNTP-Posting-User: afn17891
To: "L. M. Rappaport" <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31387 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20026 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1275 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42135 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20990 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117955 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43006 rec.radio.amateur.space:8779

How do you damage the reputation of a Lawer?????????????????????

The only difference I know between a Lawyer, Politician & a Crook is:

1. A politician is Lawyer, who is usually a Crook, who must be elected
to screw the public...

2. A Lawyer is a Crook who knows how the system is used to screw anyone...

3. A crook is a person who hasn't figured out how to become a lawyer or
politician - YET.....!

De Tom....




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.afn.org!afn17891
From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:07:04 -0500
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-User: afn17891
To: Kent Winrich <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31412 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20029 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1278 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42157 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21001 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117978 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43017 rec.radio.amateur.space:8781


Fun to watch - guys....

Question:  DO YOU know how to "look" up his call in QRZ or Sams' an
write him a letter..?

What is the difference between a: lawyer, politician & a crook???

HINT: [NONE!]

De Tom...





From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:18 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:17:28 GMT
Organization:
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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"Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>How do you damage the reputation of a Lawer?????????????????????
>
>The only difference I know between a Lawyer, Politician & a Crook is:
>
>1. A politician is Lawyer, who is usually a Crook, who must be elected
>to screw the public...
>
>2. A Lawyer is a Crook who knows how the system is used to screw anyone...
>
>3. A crook is a person who hasn't figured out how to become a lawyer or
>politician - YET.....!
>
>De Tom....
>
>
Do you know why a shark will never bite a lawyer?

Professional Courtesy.


--
73,
Butch N2YMJ


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:19 1996
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From: Mike Willis <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:41:26 +0000
Organization: Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Oxon, UK
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Thomas W. Castle wrote:
>
> Fun to watch - guys....
>
> Question:  DO YOU know how to "look" up his call in QRZ or Sams' an
> write him a letter..?
>
> What is the difference between a: lawyer, politician & a crook???
>
> HINT: [NONE!]
>
> De Tom...

Never heard of an, "Honest crook" then?


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (tyler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:21:44 GMT
Organization: Your Organization
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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This is really getting off topic, but I couldn't resist:
What's the difference between a dead dog on the road and a dead lawer on the
road?

There are skid marks in front of the dog!
Tyler



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.vcnet.com!measures
From: [e-mail] (R. L. Measures )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:04:11 -0700
Organization: Internet Access of Ventura County
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]>
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In article <55remb$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (.) wrote:

> In article <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]>,
>    "James S. Kaplan" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >ARRL lawyer to sue member
> >
> >The following is a copy of a message I received today from
> >ARRL General Counsel Christopher D. Imlay N3AKD:
> >
> >
> >To:       James S. Kaplan, KG7FU
> >Copies:   Mary Lou Brown, NM7N
> >          Terry Baun
> >          John Poray
> >Date:     July 16, 1996
> >Re:       Your article, SBE Chapter 124 Newsletter, July, 1996
> >**************************************************************
> >
> >     Jim, I have just finished reading your article in the July,
> >1996 Water Cooled Newsletter, page 6. In it, you argue that two of
snip....

 Failing that, I am going to sue
> >you in the District of Columbia for libel.

In California, it is against the law to threaten to sue.

--
--Rich-- ag6k, 805.386.3734


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net!andy.gardner
From: [e-mail] (Andy Gardner)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Balloon-borne antenna?
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:48:25 +1200
Organization: None whatsever
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <550dp3$5i3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Jim Hutchings <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Andy Gardner wrote:
> >
> > Another possible aerial experiment that may turn out easier to do and
> > more successful would be to go to somewhere with relatively steep hills
> > and suspend a wire between two peaks.
> >
> > One thing I'm going to try soon (for MW DX) is to run a beverage antenna
> > along a valley between two mountains in an attempt to assist the
> > attenuation of local signals from unwanted directions.
> >
> > Andy Gardner
> > Wellington, New Zealand
> > Telecom XTRA - Just say NO

> When I read this suggestion of stringing an antenna between two steep
> peaks, I thought I should add the consideration of passing aviators.  You
>  might want to mark the antenna location.  You could probably get some
> advice from your Aviation authorities.
> Jim Hutchings  VE5HM, also a private pilot

True! I was approaching the subject from the position of living in a
remote area where even seeing an aeroplane within visual distance is
something of an event. Being at a beach with a military air zone out to
sea, we have had the occasional Skyhawk fly over the settlement (~200
houses) at a height were you could see the whites of the pilots eyes.
Great fun!

Any peak to peak aerials erected around here would only be a danger to
topdressing aircraft, so once we'd determined from the local farmers
that none were operating, we'd be away laughing. The aerial would not be
tight enough to make a straight line betwwen the peaks, it would be
allowed to droop to (almost) maintain an above ground height of say 10
metres.

Andy Gardner
Wellington, New Zealand
Telecom XTRA - Just say NO


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: David Solomon <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: BB3 Mobil antenna info needed
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:59:16 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.116.34.16
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Does anyone know anything about the BB3 mobile 80-10m antenna?  I read a
report comparing several mobile hf antennas a while back and can not
remember what magazine it was in. CQ - QST?

Thanks in advance for any help.

73 de David - AB2CI


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:25 1996
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From: Edward Oros <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: beams
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:28:54 -0400
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Michael Pelletier wrote:
>
> Are beams just for transmissions or do they also improve reception.
>  Also, are there any good sites on the web for someone interested in
> learning about antennas.
> Thanks.
> [e-mail]

A beam will improve the transmit signal as well as the received
signal.


See...


http://www.qth.com/antenna


Ed--AC3L


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:26 1996
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From: Michael Pelletier <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: beams
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:39:26 -0500
Organization: MAP
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Are beams just for transmissions or do they also inprove reception.
 Also, are there any good sites on the web for someone interested in
learning about antennas.
Thanks.
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:27 1996
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From: Michael Pelletier <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: beams
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:49:34 -0500
Organization: MAP
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Are beams just for transmissions or do they also improve reception.
 Also, are there any good sites on the web for someone interested in
learning about antennas.
Thanks.
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:28 1996
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From: Dave Riley <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 16:41:35 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55r5p4$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hingham207.pcix.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I am new to 2m SSB and I current use a Tr-9000 with a twin lead J-pole.
> I am surprised at how many contacts I have made with this simple set-up
> and 10w of power. What I am looking at is to set up a single very
> versitile vertical antenna for VHF. I have seen the previous postings
> for the ringo-ranger verticals. What I would like to know from the group
> is whether anyone has used a diamond 6m/2m/440 tri-band vertical. The specs
look
> really nice on paper. The other option would be to go for a MFJ-1396
> and have everything in one stick. I already am aware of horizontal
> beams being best for SSB Dx and I probably will eventually get their
> but at this point I just want to start some where and it might be
> nice to have 6m and 440 as options. I don't mind spending $150 on a
> nice ant if it is going to preform. The other option might be to get
> the $60 ringo ranger and spend the additional money on a pre-amp/amp
> to boost my receive input and power output. If any one has a simple or
> complex ansewer I will greatly apreciate it. Please Email me since I
> sometimes have trouble getting on the news group and I would hate to
> miss your reply.
>
>       [e-mail]               Thanks Brad   WB7TSO
Hi Brad..
You can do a lot better than a ringo..  Try a J pole homebrew with
copper.. You can still get AA1A SideKick from Radio Ware..
I don't own em anymore but I know they work better than ringo..
73 de Dave - AA1A -


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:29 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 05:15:15 GMT
Organization:
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55r5p4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup056.qnsbny1.capital.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

>You can do a lot better than a ringo..  Try a J pole homebrew with
>copper.. You can still get AA1A SideKick from Radio Ware..
>I don't own em anymore but I know they work better than ringo..
>73 de Dave - AA1A -

I disagree. When I first started with 2 Meters, I tried a copper pipe
J-Pole. The performance was dismal. A friend gave me a Ringo Ranger II
and the difference was like a breath of fresh air. The J-Pole is
vastly overrated. IMHO.
73,
Butch N2YMJ


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:29 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: 9 Nov 1996 20:23:57 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hi Brad--

The Sidekick is an excellent design.  MFJ also makes a 2 x 5/8-wave
sidemount antenna. I built a somewhat similar antenna for my step-son to
use on FM, and it works very well.  The nice thing about about a
center-fed sidemount is--you can flip it and use it horizonally for SSB.
These antennas deliver a good honest 3-dB in gain over a dipole and you
don't need to worry about rotating them.  However, I'm sure people have
told you that, for serious SSB work, a beam is very hard to beat!

73

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:37:25 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <5634mq$[e-mail]>
References: <55r5p4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->>You can do a lot better than a ringo..  Try a J pole homebrew with
->>copper..

->I disagree. When I first started with 2 Meters, I tried a copper pipe
->J-Pole. The performance was dismal.

Sorry, I disagree with the disagree.  There are a dozen different designs
for the copper j-pole.  Before you dismiss the design, I'd suggest that you
construct one of my designs.  I've been using them for twenty years and can
assure you that they perform quite adequately, especially considering that
you can make as many as you want for less than $5 a pop (using scrounged
connectors) or $20 using a Sorta-Kit.

Jim

Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
Grass Valley CA 95945   |
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!oronet!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:37:23 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <5634mo$[e-mail]>
References: <55r5p4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Dave Riley <[e-mail]> shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->[e-mail] wrote:
->>
->> I am new to 2m SSB and I current use a Tr-9000 with a twin lead J-pole.
->> I am surprised at how many contacts I have made with this simple set-up
->> and 10w of power. What I am looking at is to set up a single very
->> versitile vertical antenna for VHF.

**  CAUTION,  BLATANT COMMERCIAL REPLY FOLLOWS  **

Go see the base station section at http:\www.rst-engr.com.

Jim

Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
Grass Valley CA 95945   |
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!usenet.logical.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 05:59:36 GMT
Organization:
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55r5p4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5634mq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup033.qnsbny1.capital.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

[e-mail] (Jim Weir) wrote:

>[e-mail] shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
>
>->>You can do a lot better than a ringo..  Try a J pole homebrew with
>->>copper..
>
>->I disagree. When I first started with 2 Meters, I tried a copper pipe
>->J-Pole. The performance was dismal.
>
>Sorry, I disagree with the disagree.  There are a dozen different designs
>for the copper j-pole.  Before you dismiss the design, I'd suggest that you
>construct one of my designs.  I've been using them for twenty years and can
>assure you that they perform quite adequately, especially considering that
>you can make as many as you want for less than $5 a pop (using scrounged
>connectors) or $20 using a Sorta-Kit.

The key-word is adequate. not superior.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:34 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:26:09 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]

Jim Weir wrote:
>
> [e-mail] shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
>
> ->>You can do a lot better than a ringo..  Try a J pole homebrew with
> ->>copper..
>
> ->I disagree. When I first started with 2 Meters, I tried a copper pipe
> ->J-Pole. The performance was dismal.
>
> Sorry, I disagree with the disagree.  There are a dozen different designs
> for the copper j-pole.  Before you dismiss the design, I'd suggest that you
> construct one of my designs.  I've been using them for twenty years and can
> assure you that they perform quite adequately, especially considering that
> you can make as many as you want for less than $5 a pop (using scrounged
> connectors) or $20 using a Sorta-Kit.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
> RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
> Grass Valley CA 95945   |
> http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
> [e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor


altavoz: Jim you are a car salesman . Your J pole does not work.

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:35 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 2m Vertical ?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:28:09 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 27
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> [e-mail] (Jim Weir) wrote:
>
> >[e-mail] shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
> >
> >->>You can do a lot better than a ringo..  Try a J pole homebrew with
> >->>copper..
> >
> >->I disagree. When I first started with 2 Meters, I tried a copper pipe
> >->J-Pole. The performance was dismal.
> >
> >Sorry, I disagree with the disagree.  There are a dozen different designs
> >for the copper j-pole.  Before you dismiss the design, I'd suggest that you
> >construct one of my designs.  I've been using them for twenty years and can
> >assure you that they perform quite adequately, especially considering that
> >you can make as many as you want for less than $5 a pop (using scrounged
> >connectors) or $20 using a Sorta-Kit.
>
> The key-word is adequate. not superior.


altavoz: notice Jims sig has  "1st phone" ........there is not such
thing !! I know cause all the kids on my block had 1st phones before
they were cancelled by F.C.C. !!  ha ha ha ha

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Penneys)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best HF vertical?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 18:52:11 -0500
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 21
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <565prb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: copland.udel.edu



I am operating from a deed restricted community and have one wire
antenna up, a Fritzel, which is terrific.

I am debating putting up a single vertical. My interest is mostly CW,
right now 40, 20, low bands, and 15/10 in that order.

I would ground or mast mount. Wanna keep it down.

Force 12, Cushcraft, Hy-Gain, Butternut and Hustler are available to me.

Your opinions are most welcome.

Thanks.


Bob N9GG (recently WN3K)

Go FRC!!!



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best loaded Dipole
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 07:49:00 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <5641dh$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <55s91n$[e-mail]>
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In article <55s91n$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
>>Hi--
>>
>>Curious to know thoughts on 'best' loaded system for a dipole; say 0.235
>>waves in greatest dimension. Fat dipole--center load a candidate; what
>>have YOU found?
>>
>>73
>>Chip N1IR
>>
>>
>
>Hi Chip,
>
>I measured some end loaded 20 /15 and 10 meter dipoles here. The best
>loaded antennas were end loaded with large hats. FS was improved almost 3
>dB on 20 meters by going from center (feedpoint) loading to end loading,
>and about 1 dB gioing from center to end. The difference was progressively
>less on higher bands. The overall length was ten feet.
>
>I never check conductor size differences, these antennas were 1 inch thick
>aluminun.
>
>I measure the same trend in my mobile antenna system. With the leargest
>improvement on 160 and smallest on 20.
>
> 73 Tom

I've got only one data point. I made a 1/4 wavelength dipole for 40 meters
and loaded it at the feedpoint, using a couple of powdered-iron cores with
the highest Q I could make with reasonable size (an inch or so diameter). Q
was around 300 as I recall. The signal strength was measured at about a
mile away and compared to that from a 1/2 wave dipole put up in the same
place. As I recall, the strength was down just under 2 dB. Also recalling
from the dim past, I believe the conductor loss calculated out to about 0.5
dB and the coil loss about 1. It's easy to calculate if you know the coil Q
-- or you can quickly model it with ELNEC or EZNEC.

I chose to do the loading at the feedpoint to make it more rugged
mechanically. I was also able to make a good impedance match by simply link
coupling to the loading coils. (I ended up with two separate coils, because
I was able to get higher Q with smaller L values for that particular core
type.) The link coupling also makes a balun unnecessary.

If you're interested in the details, I might be able to dredge them up.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:38 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best loaded Dipole
Date: 10 Nov 1996 15:57:54 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <5641dh$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>
>I've got only one data point. I made a 1/4 wavelength dipole for 40
meters
>and loaded it at the feedpoint, using a couple of powdered-iron cores
with
>the highest Q I could make with reasonable size (an inch or so diameter).
Q
>was around 300 as I recall.

Hi Roy,

I never measured the Q in the coils I had, because I was restricted to
what the manufacturer had in stock. The coils had very poor form factor
and electrical construction. They were excellent mechanically though.

It's important to point out the position of the loading is less critical
if the loading system has very low loss. If the system is lossy the
location means much more.

Your results make a lot of sense, because you used a high Q inductor.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:39 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: Best Loaded Dipole
Date: 12 Nov 1996 22:45:06 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Thanks all for responses so far; am still looking for comments on
something a little more specific.

Let's take a dipole, center fed, of 0.235 waves. Yes, you can end-load it.
Caps are good. But lets make it a (more difficult) two-dimensional problem
and constrain the ends to,say, 0.05 waves. Goodbye caps. NOW what's the
best way to load? Put anything you want in that 0.05 by 0.235 wave
rectangle. Any 'elp?

Thanks!

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:40 1996
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From: Merv Stump <"[e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Beverage antenna question
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:49:59 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <55voaq$[e-mail]>
References: <55uu20$[e-mail]>
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Frits Jensen wrote:
>
> To improve my recieving on 80M (have a full vertical), I need a better anten
na.
> I can put up a 90 feet beverage streight. Will it do me any good?. Is it
> posible to bent it like horizontal L. Then it can be some 120-130 feet. - Or
> should I make some kind of rotatable coax loop to reduce and null out
> interference. Please some advice
>
> 73, OZ2Q, Frits in COpenhagen

To give as direct an answer as possible to your questions:  NO and NO.

NO a 90 foot beverage on 80 meters will not improve your reception.  You will
probably
need at least 2 wavelengths (500 feet or so) to improve over your vertical.

NO the beverage antenna cannot be bent like a horizontal L.  The whole theory
of the
beverage requires that it be straight.

However, a horizontal centerfed half-wave dipole at 40 feet or higher will pro
bably give
you better reception than your vertical on stations out to 1500 kilometers and
 further
on high angle nights).  With a little experimentation you will be able to bend
 the
halfwave dipole without significant pattern or impedance affect.

Regards, Merv


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:41 1996
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From: "Michael W. Moran" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.electronics.equipment
Subject: Re: BIRD 43 Help/Tutorial
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 15:38:17 -0600
Organization: Internet Connect, Inc. The Wisconsin ISP 414-476-4266 http://www.inc.net
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbcb72$93899c00$01a447cc@desktop> <[e-mail]> <01bbcdbd$92d58380$89ecbdcc@rsmith>
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To: Bob Smith <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31307 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42066 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:20959 sci.electronics.equipment:8842

BOB:

   I believe the sample port is -40dB down from the input power.  Slugs
for this beast tend to be rather expensive since they each cover a
limited frequency and power range, but it is indeed easy to use.  Just
insert the slug with the arrow pointing to the antenna to measure
forward power, toward the transmitter to measure reflected.

   I don't know how wide a freq/power range you need or what you paid
for the 43.  If you find yourself looking at a big $$$ outlay for slugs,
you might want to sell the 43 and look at a Telewave 44 which is
wideband (30-1000 MHz) and has switches for power range and
forward/reflected... no slugs needed.  I've used one for about 5 years
and never had a problem with it.

Mike M.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:41 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.electronics.equipment
Subject: Re: BIRD 43 Help/Tutorial
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 21:56:17 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbcb72$93899c00$01a447cc@desktop> <[e-mail]> <01bbcdbd$92d58380$89ecbdcc@rsmith>
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Bob Smith wrote:
>
> >>>altavoz: Many slugs and $$$thousands of dollars later ......
> WHY NOT BUY AN MFJ249/209 ?
>
> No good above 150 Mhz!
>
> altavoz <[e-mail]> wrote in article
> <[e-mail]>...
> Bob Smith wrote:
> >
> > Can someone kindly point me to a tutorial on the Bird 43 watt meter.
> Just
> > got one used without a manual.  They look very simple to use.
> >
> > I do have a RF Sampler fitted - what range out output does this have? -
> > would hate to blow my frequency meter or o-scope.!
> >
> > Thanks a million for reading.
> >
> > --
> > >>>>
> > Bob Smith    N3FTU
> > Atlanta, GA
>
> altavoz: Many slugs and $$$thousands of dollars later ......
> WHY NOT BUY AN MFJ249/209 ?
>


Good thinking , Bob , its probably no good over 5 gig's either.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bob Tail Curtain Matching Network Help????
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 01:56:00 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <563cq3$[e-mail]>
References: <55bimh$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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[e-mail] (REGross1) wrote:

>I am building a Bob Tail Curtain for 17 meters and am having a problem in
>determining the matching network to 50 ohm coax.  Does anyone know the
>sizes needed for the coil and capacitor?
>Robert E. Gross (KE3EM)
>[e-mail]

Robert,
    I accidently discovered a better way to feed a bobtail curtain
when I built one for 40 meters.  The top of the center leg is a
current node when fed against the middle of the horizontal section.
    So, if you put an insulator there, and attatch the coax shield to
the top of the middle vertical leg, and attach the center conductor of
the coax to the middle of the horizontal part, you will find that it
will match quite nicely.  If you have access to MN or another antenna
modeling program, you will see that I am right.  I used a 1:1 choke
current balun and ran the coax away from the vertical leg at an angle
of 45 degrees or so.
    The nice thing about this is that you need no matching network and
you can raise the bobtail curtain as high as you want (although height
is not as important as it is with a horizontal antenna.)
    Another hint is to disconnect the middle vertical leg and feed the
center of the horiziontal leg.  This is also a current node.  I
suggest doing this so you can trim the two end vertial legs for lowest
swr.  Then, reconnect the center vertical and feed it as I described
before.  Trim the center vertical for lowest swr.
    In my 40m design, I placed a relay at the top and was able to
switch between these two configurations.  One setting is a bobtail and
the other is a strange 1 1/2 wavelength dipole with hanging ends.  It
has a horizontally polarized cloverleaf pattern.
    I know it sounds too easy after reading all of the literature on
bobtail matching networks, but if you doubt me, wait  around for one
of the experts, like Roy Lewellan to see this reply and I bet he will
back me up.
    Good luck

dudley, WA1X/8
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:43 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bob Tail Curtain Matching Network Help????
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:17:50 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55bimh$[e-mail]> <563cq3$[e-mail]>
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Dudley Chapman wrote:
> I know it sounds too easy after reading all of the literature on
> bobtail matching networks,...

Hi Dudley, if one builds a Bobtail with two vertical elements
instead of three, one has a halfsquare which is fed at a current
loop just as you suggest. The only problem I see with feeding
your Bobtail in the center at the top is coupling of the coax
braid to the radiated RF field and that problem can be solved.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bob Tail Curtain Matching Network Help????
Date: 13 Nov 1996 10:13:22 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <56c702$[e-mail]>
References: <55bimh$[e-mail]> <563cq3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56btap$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr20s1.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <56btap$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Juha Kupiainen) writ
es:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>says...
>>
>>Dudley Chapman wrote:
>>> I know it sounds too easy after reading all of the literature on
>>> bobtail matching networks,...
>>
>>Hi Dudley, if one builds a Bobtail with two vertical elements
>>instead of three, one has a halfsquare which is fed at a current
>>loop just as you suggest. The only problem I see with feeding
>>your Bobtail in the center at the top is coupling of the coax
>>braid to the radiated RF field and that problem can be solved.
>>
>>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)
>
>I found this from one publication ...
>
>"No matter how the coaxcable is brought down from the midverticalelement
>these will be unbalanced coupling to the cable from radiating positions
>of the antenna which makes the current distribution to three verticals
>unsymetrical. Voltage feeding is the only good way to feed the antenna!"
>
>73
>
>Juha / OH4JK

   Juha, what if you live in an apartment, let's speculate, and you can devise

   one that fans out from the midpoint?  You live ABOVE it, or ASIDE of it.
   You can feed it with coax that comes away perpendicularly to the point
   where the middle vertical element is, but we are talking feeding it so that

   the wire elements all point down toward the ground and are, say, just out
   of Magic Johnson's ability to jump up and grab?

   Aside from our wonderous new RF safety net here in the USA, what would
   the situation look like then?

   I actually fed one this way for a couple days off a high fishing pier over
   the Gulf of Mexico that dangled the elements down toward the salt water.
   I seem to recall that it did VERY well on 40 meters....   WUNDERFULLLL.

   I did learn that the tide changed the impedance and all rather smartly
   as it rose and fell.....  the tips of the elements were VERY close to
   the water level at high tide...

   My black iron wrenches I used as weights on the vertical wires all sort
   of rusted pretty quickly as well...

   :)


//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:46 1996
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From: Merv Stump <"[e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bob Tail Curtain Matching Network Help????
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:50:58 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <56cn7m$[e-mail]>
References: <55bimh$[e-mail]> <563cq3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56btap$[e-mail]> <56c702$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In <56btap$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Juha Kupiainen) wr
ites:
> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> >says...
> >>
> >>Dudley Chapman wrote:
> >>> I know it sounds too easy after reading all of the literature on
> >>> bobtail matching networks,...
> >>
> >>Hi Dudley, if one builds a Bobtail with two vertical elements
> >>instead of three, one has a halfsquare which is fed at a current
> >>loop just as you suggest. The only problem I see with feeding
> >>your Bobtail in the center at the top is coupling of the coax
> >>braid to the radiated RF field and that problem can be solved.
> >>
> >>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)
> >
> >I found this from one publication ...
> >
> >"No matter how the coaxcable is brought down from the midverticalelement
> >these will be unbalanced coupling to the cable from radiating positions
> >of the antenna which makes the current distribution to three verticals
> >unsymetrical. Voltage feeding is the only good way to feed the antenna!"
> >
> >73
> >
> >Juha / OH4JK
>
>    Juha, what if you live in an apartment, let's speculate, and you can devi
se
>    one that fans out from the midpoint?  You live ABOVE it, or ASIDE of it.
>    You can feed it with coax that comes away perpendicularly to the point
>    where the middle vertical element is, but we are talking feeding it so th
at
>    the wire elements all point down toward the ground and are, say, just out
>    of Magic Johnson's ability to jump up and grab?
>
>    Aside from our wonderous new RF safety net here in the USA, what would
>    the situation look like then?
>
>    I actually fed one this way for a couple days off a high fishing pier ove
r
>    the Gulf of Mexico that dangled the elements down toward the salt water.
>    I seem to recall that it did VERY well on 40 meters....   WUNDERFULLLL.
>
>    I did learn that the tide changed the impedance and all rather smartly
>    as it rose and fell.....  the tips of the elements were VERY close to
>    the water level at high tide...
>
>    My black iron wrenches I used as weights on the vertical wires all sort
>    of rusted pretty quickly as well...
>
>    :)
>
> //-----------------------------
> Mike - W5WQN
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]


I feed an 80 meter bobtail at a current node once.  The antenna loaded
as expected.  As a matter of fact it was much broader than expected.
However, it was at best only equal to my halfwave dipole at the same
height.  Possibly the fact that it was so broad indicated some losses
somewhere, but after 6 months of tests and checking I gave up on it.

Regards, Merv


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:48 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!ns1.aplatform.com!pagesat.net!a3bsrv.nai.net!mgate.arrl.org!news
From: Zack Lau <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bob Tail Curtain Matching Network Help????
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:01:40 -0500
Organization: American Radio Relay League
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55bimh$[e-mail]> <563cq3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56btap$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mgate.arrl.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
To: Juha Kupiainen <[e-mail]>

OH4JK Juha Kupiainen wrote:
\
> I found this from one publication ...
>
> "No matter how the coaxcable is brought down from the midverticalelement
> these will be unbalanced coupling to the cable from radiating positions
> of the antenna which makes the current distribution to three verticals
> unsymetrical. Voltage feeding is the only good way to feed the antenna!"

How about making the center element out of aluminum tubing
and bringing the coaxial feedline down through the element.
The feedline could even be buried to further reduce its coupling
to the antenna.  Zack W1VT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:48 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!uunet!in1.uu.net!news-in.iadfw.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!usenet
From: johnf <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Build 2 Mtr Quad
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 08:24:16 -0800
Organization: CyberRamp.net, Dallas, TX [phone]/[phone] for info
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal-tsa2-p1-47.cyberramp.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

http://www.cyberramp.net/~johnf


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:49 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.nts-online.net!news
From: James Lee Tabor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: CAPMan vs Wizard
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:01:17 -0600
Organization: Kangaroo Tabor Software
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp30.wtrt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)

What are the differences between CAPMan and Wizard,
apart from Wizard having a windows style interface?

http://www.wtrt.net/~ku5s/CAPvsWiz.htm

--
Communications Analysis Prediction Wizard
http://www.wtrt.net/~ku5s/
CAPMan HF Propagation Prediction & System Analysis Software
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KU5S


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:50 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!southwind.net!symbios.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!glassguy
From: Michael Olsen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: cellular phone antenna question
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:26:58 -0700
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a remote antenna for a cellular phone
which can be inductively coupled to a cell phone with a non-removable
antenna?  I want to use such a phone in a building where the cell phone
won't otherwise operate.  I can easily run a coax outside, and have tried
touching the coax wire to the socket of a phone *with* a removable
antenna and it works fine, but the phone I would like to use has an
end-loaded non-removable antenna.

If you can help me out, please email me directly.

TIA,

Michael Olsen
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:51 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:32:35 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 41
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56h03o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <56h03o$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Dudley Chapman) writes:

>
>Since it surfaces from time to time, and since I hear from various
>hams in the military that the military uses some kind of CFAs, I have
>steeled up my courage and am willing to brave the ridicule for having
>mentioned it at all.
>
>Ok, do your worst.  I can take it.
>
>Dudley, WA1X/8

Hey Dudly,

This stuff will come and go over and over again. Nothing wrong with trying
something that seems to make sense, that's how we learn.

One thing I find common to all these "Voo Doo" antennas is authors use
many, many words to say nothing at all, and then leap to conclusions not
borne out by measurements.

There are some general warning flags of a hoax. Here's what I look for:

1.) Claims losses are sunstantially eliminated by changing ratios of
fields.

2.) Claims a change in resistance at the feedpoint is cause for increased
performance.

3.) Claims a small antenna has large advantages other than physical size
advantages.

4.) Lack of verifiable FS measurements, and dependence on hear-say signal
reports.

5.) Lack of construction and logical operational detail.

When one or more of these things appears in an article, watch out.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:53 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNAE REFERENCES
Date: 13 Nov 1996 04:28:41 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

To cut down on some of the e-mail, I am going to list here two references
of interest to at least some on the newsgroup. Also, some ground rules: I
will not discuss my articles any more on the newsgroup (at least for the
moment). No 'personal attacks' as they've been referred to. Do 'dejanews'
and dig out the flame war if you're interested; I have no more to add in a
non-peer reviewed setting.

I think that objectively considering some other results might be
constructive to those that think fractal antennae don't have a place in
antenna design. Note that I am not about to debate whether log periodics
are fractal (they are); instead I  will present two OPTIMIZED antennae
which look strange but are real. I would be very,very interested to see
how some might explain why they don't work, or don't work as advertised.
Later on I will provide a deterministic fractal antenna reference (not one
of mine) for your objective critique.

I regret that I cannot provide you with copies of these articles; they are
available through interlibrary loan, and I'm sure some on the newsgroup
can make copies if asked.

Here are the references:

1) OPTIMIZATION OF WIRE ANTENNAS by Landstorfer,F., and Sacher, R., Wiley
1985. See p. 144 for some chaotic fractal antennae in 2 dimensions

2) "Automating Wire Antenna Design Using Genetic Algorithms", by Linden
D., and Altschuler, E.,Microwave Journal, March 96 p.74. These authors
produce a 3-d , 7 wire chaotic fractal which is an optimized antenna.

I will be interested in your feedback of these papers.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNAE REFERENCES
Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:27:20 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 14
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

RE: Dave's Comments

That's essentially correct Dave, except the structure also loads (at some
frequencies) as well. L&S used MOM (NEC2 is such a code) to arrive at
these designs. Within their figure of merit , these chaotic fractal
antennae emerged. These antennae are readily modeled by commercial NEC2
programs, such as EZNEC, for those who want to have some fun checking
patterns, currents, and so on.

More complex structures require FDTD or FEM codes to model (not to mention
some  big $$$ to code or buy software).

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!usenet
From: David Robbins <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNAE REFERENCES
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:29:53 +0000
Organization: k1ttt
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp18.berkshire.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:
> Here are the references:
>
> 1) OPTIMIZATION OF WIRE ANTENNAS by Landstorfer,F., and Sacher, R., Wiley
> 1985. See p. 144 for some chaotic fractal antennae in 2 dimensions
>
> I will be interested in your feedback of these papers.
>
> 73
> Chip N1IR

i have read this book, very interesting work but not very enlightning.
yes, you can take a long wire and bend it into odd looking shapes and
get more gain.  These wire antennas are basically improvements on
the old 'wave' antennas. but they have been bent to take advantage of
propagation delays, essentially combining phasing lines and radiating
elements into a single structure.  this is essentially the same effect
that i believe gives fractal antennas their characteristics.  but they
should both still be capable of being analyzed using standard nec type
programs (as long as they can handle the shorter segments and close in
wire interactions).

--
David Robbins K1TTT (ex KY1H)
[e-mail]   or   [e-mail]
http://www.berkshire.net/~robbins/k1ttt.html




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNAE REFERENCES
Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:43:35 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hello Chip;

(Think I got the hang of this.)

The first reference is unfamiliar but the second I saw some months ago.
Could you define how the first reference used figure of merit please? I
think that sometimes academic researchers don't take practical issues to
light. Could you describe what the antennas look like?

Jack


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infi.net!usenet
From: "Eric" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateu
Subject: Club WWW site
Date: 13 Nov 1996 09:06:56 GMT
Organization: InfiNet Technical Support
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts86.tech.infi.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31501 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:497 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20061 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1297 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42246 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21061 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118119

This is the Hamtpon Roads Radio Association web site you may be interested
in.  We are located in Norfolk Virginia.  Let me know what you think!

Eric KE4KIK 73!

http://www.infi.net/hrra


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:58 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!canopus.hbs.edu!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Ellis G.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateu
Subject: Re: Club WWW site
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:01:58 GMT
Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56dg4i$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: p8.ts17.bedfo.ma.tiac.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31538 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:505 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20073 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1306 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42278 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21078 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118153

"Eric" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>This is the Hamtpon Roads Radio Association web site you may be interested
>in.  We are located in Norfolk Virginia.  Let me know what you think!

Very cool!

(it took forevvvvvvvvvvvvver to load!)

Ellis


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
PhotoImpressions: Art Rubber Stamps from your Photographs!
http://www.tiac.net/users/ellis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:57:59 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news1.isp.net!news.infinex.com!news3.crl.com!nexp.crl.com!usenet
From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateu
Subject: Re: Club WWW site
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:25:18 -0800
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.113.223.131
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; U; IRIX 5.3 IP19)
To: Eric <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31574 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:518 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20086 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1312 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42336 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21099 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118199

Eric wrote:
>
> This is the Hamtpon Roads Radio Association web site you may be interested
> in.  We are located in Norfolk Virginia.  Let me know what you think!
>
> Eric KE4KIK 73!
>
> http://www.infi.net/hrra

I'll go and check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860
--
Dave Booth kc6wfs


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:00 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.genuity.net!news.lafn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jimmy Navarro)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateu
Subject: Re: Club WWW site
Date: 15 Nov 1996 07:16:37 GMT
Organization: KE6FPK
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <56h5cl$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.13.19
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (16bit)
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31579 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:522 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20090 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1314 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42343 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21101 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118203

In article <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>This is the Hamtpon Roads Radio Association web site you may be interested
>in.  We are located in Norfolk Virginia.  Let me know what you think!
>
>Eric KE4KIK 73!
>
>http://www.infi.net/hrra
How much do your ISP charge for home page?  I'd like to build a Web site for
an open repeater club.  73!



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.tds.net!news
From: DANNY STALLINGS <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateu
Subject: Re: Club WWW site
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:56:12 -0500
Organization: TDS Telecom - Madison, WI
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]> <56h5cl$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceal0-a09.peop.tds.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Jimmy Navarro wrote:
>
> In article <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] says...
> >
> >This is the Hamtpon Roads Radio Association web site you may be interested
> >in.  We are located in Norfolk Virginia.  Let me know what you think!
> >
> >Eric KE4KIK 73!
> >
> >http://www.infi.net/hrra
> How much do your ISP charge for home page?  I'd like to build a Web site for
> an open repeater club.  73!
NICE PAGE BUT TAKES FOREVERE AT 28.8 TO LAOD.
PLEASE VISIT MY HOMEPAGE AT
HTTP://WWW.GEOCITIES.COM/HEARTLAND/3764
DAN-KC4OR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:02 1996
From: Craig Still <[e-mail]>
Organization: Internet Club
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Coil designer
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.184.221.102
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Nov 96 17:36:19 GMT
Lines: 17
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I have spent the last 4 days looking for a program to design antenna
coils and traps. Several years ago I had a program that would do such
but have either lost or misplaced it.

The original program I had worked as follows:
Input the frequency in which the coil was to resinate
Input the wire size (dim)
Wahla!..
i.e., a 14.0mHz coil would be xx.xxxxyH. 22 turns or #12AWG spaced @
xx.xx inches on a 1.75" form 3.2 inches long.

If anyone happens to know about this program or has something please
post here or EMail [e-mail]

TIA




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:03 1996
From: Craig Still <[e-mail]>
Organization: Internet Club
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
To: All
Subject: Coil designer
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Nov 96 17:35:47 GMT
Lines: 17
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I have spent the last 4 days looking for a program to design antenna
coils and traps. Several years ago I had a program that would do such
but have either lost or misplaced it.

The original program I had worked as follows:
Input the frequency in which the coil was to resinate
Input the wire size (dim)
Wahla!..
i.e., a 14.0mHz coil would be xx.xxxxyH. 22 turns or #12AWG spaced @
xx.xx inches on a 1.75" form 3.2 inches long.

If anyone happens to know about this program or has something please
post here or EMail [e-mail]

TIA




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!scnews.sc.intel.com!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coil designer
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:22:10 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Craig Still wrote:
>
> I have spent the last 4 days looking for a program to design antenna
> coils and traps. Several years ago I had a program that would do such
> but have either lost or misplaced it.

Hi Craig, Instead of wasting 4 days, it would have taken about an
hour to turn the coil equations in the ARRL Handbook into a Basic
program to do what you want done.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.e-tex.com!news
From: Don Wines <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coil designer
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:10:10 -0600
Organization: East Texas Internet
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> Craig Still wrote:
> >
> > I have spent the last 4 days looking for a program to design antenna
> > coils and traps. Several years ago I had a program that would do such
> > but have either lost or misplaced it.
>
> Hi Craig, Instead of wasting 4 days, it would have taken about an
> hour to turn the coil equations in the ARRL Handbook into a Basic
> program to do what you want done.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

George Murphy, VE3ERP, has done all the work already with his HAMCALC
program. It does many, many of the calculations in the ARRL Handbook
plus many other things. It is available at the ARRL ftp site:
        ftp://oak.oakland.edu/pub/hamradio/arrl/bbs/programs/
The file name is "hcal-15.zip" and "hcal-15.txt". It is FREE ware. If
you can't ftp it is available from VE3ERP directly. I don't have his
address handy but will supply it if you need it. I was turned on to this
program in the Nov. CQ.

GL es 73s
Don


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:05 1996
From: Craig Still <[e-mail]>
Organization: Internet Club
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Coil designer
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Nov 96 15:40:10 GMT
Lines: 6
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.mel.aone.net.au!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cinetwork.com!205.184.221.109

Thank You for the information. Very much appreciated

73
Craig, KD4PWK




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:06 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coil designer
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:43:40 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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> Craig Still wrote:
> >
> > I have spent the last 4 days looking for a program to design antenna
> > coils and traps. Several years ago I had a program that would do such
> > but have either lost or misplaced it.

look in the ARRL FTP site at
http://oak.oakland.edu:8080/pub/hamradio/arrl/bbs/programs/coil112.exe

Madjid, VE2GMI




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:07 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!rainbow.rmi.net!rainbow!jonz
From: [e-mail] (Bea and Marvin Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coil designer
Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:21:42 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet - (800) 900-RMII
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <56clhm$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rainbow.rmii.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Cecil Moore ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Craig Still wrote:
: >
: > I have spent the last 4 days looking for a program to design antenna
: > coils and traps. Several years ago I had a program that would do such
: > but have either lost or misplaced it.

: Hi Craig, Instead of wasting 4 days, it would have taken about an
: hour to turn the coil equations in the ARRL Handbook into a Basic
: program to do what you want done.

Ahhhh!  But, that way madness lies!!

--
Jonesy W3DHJ


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news
From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coil designer
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:42:52 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clhm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-104.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

Bea and Marvin Jones wrote:
>
>
> : Hi Craig, Instead of wasting 4 days, it would have taken about an
> : hour to turn the coil equations in the ARRL Handbook into a Basic
> : program to do what you want done.
>

The Mathcad program is elegant for all kinds of situations like this. See
QST for April 1996. This software is cheap and easy to learn and use.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:10 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 19:07:54 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 65
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <55oksq$[e-mail]>
References: <55mads$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.news-fddi.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Tony,

Let me tell you the true story of the Unihat in response to this:
In article <55mads$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:

>    Whatever fits, Tom!  It seems to me that there is much too much
>closed mindedness on this issue.  After all, the research comes from
>a credible institution (U of W.V.)  ...yeah the Press Release
>reads otherwise ...but.  In their pages, it is billed as "research".

>    Why is not everyone interested in the fundamental explanations
>going to the source (as has been suggested already)?  Robert Craven's
>e-mail address is [e-mail]

I read as much as I could find out on this. It says nothing at all
technically, just like the Fractal articles do. It is hundreds and
thousands of words that contain "no beef".

The Unihat ads, when initially released, claimed the following:

1.) The folded wires increased radiation resistance lowering the antennas
dependence on ground and raising it's efficiency.

2.) The antenna had more FS than a full size vertical

3.) The data was verified and taken by scientists at Los Alamos labs at a
test range.

McCoy even repeated this stuff in a CQ review.

The truth was:

Folding the wires changed the feedpoint resistance. They mistook this for
radiation resistance.

The comparison was taken on top of a high mesa, at a friend of an employee
(who was not a scientist) of Los Alamos with a FS meter borrowed from Los
Alamos. The reference antenna was a Gap antenna.

When management at Los Alamos caught wind of this, they asked them to pull
the claims. If you read the add now all the fluff is gone. The antenna is
advertised as what it really is, a very well constructed top loaded
vertical. What was wrong with selling something as what it really is? It's
a well constructed antenna, sell it as that. It's top loaded by a big hat,
the most efficient loading method, sell it as that.

Whenever any ad or article is full of things that make or have absolutely
no technical importance, no matter what source is impled, it's a big red
warning flag. Antenna science is very well established, and there are no
magic ways to twist or fold or wind wires up that violate any of the
rules.

I worked VK and many Europeans on 160 with my mobile antenna that is 8
feet tall. That's .015 wl tall, the equivalent of a one foot 20 meter
antenna, on a band having poor propagation. I can beat many home stations
in signal reports, and did last night to a SP3. Is that magic? Does it
prove anything?

It's just a top loaded 8 ft vertical. It has less than 1% efficiency. The
feedpoint resistance is 25 ohms, and the radiation resistance is a
fraction of an ohm. If it was a weirdly shaped antenna, you can bet it
would be posted all over the net as a revolutionary design!

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 01:00:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <55onvn$[e-mail]>
References: <55mads$[e-mail]> <55oksq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca12-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 05  7:00:39 PM CST 1996

In <55oksq$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:
>
>Hi Tony,
>
>Let me tell you the true story of the Unihat in response to this:
>In article <55mads$[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:
>
>>    Whatever fits, Tom!  It seems to me that there is much too much
>>closed mindedness on this issue.  After all, the research comes from
>>a credible institution (U of W.V.)  ...yeah the Press Release
>>reads otherwise ...but.  In their pages, it is billed as "research".
>
>>    Why is not everyone interested in the fundamental explanations
>>going to the source (as has been suggested already)?  Robert Craven's
>>e-mail address is [e-mail]
>
>I read as much as I could find out on this. It says nothing at all
>technically, just like the Fractal articles do. It is hundreds and
>thousands of words that contain "no beef".

    Tom, once again you overflow with too damn many side-issue words.
If you found no "beef" then how is it you can come to so many
conclusions?
I sure don't see any contradiction with my suggestion to talk with
Craven.

>
>The Unihat ads, when initially released, claimed the following:
>
    [balance clipped here for brevity]

    OK, simple question:  what ads, what publications?  (I sure have
not seen any in the pro publications that I receive).

    -=Tony=-    W6ANV



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 22:21:03 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <565kgj$[e-mail]>
References: <55ptsg$[e-mail]> <55qne8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-28.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <55qne8$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Fractenna) wrote:
>RE: Tom's comment
>
>Again, the press release revisited.
>
>Who CARES what management THINKS a product does?? Why not ask R&D what it
>REALLY does!!
>
>If you're so concerned, then CALL Craven up and ask him.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

I'll try that next, but thought I'd give email a try first. Because the
press release was posted, there shouldn't be any problem with getting the
technical specs posted also. An advantage to having it in writing is that
then everyone can see it, rather than just the person who calls.

Be patient.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!fu-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!news.unibw-muenchen.de!bauv111!stefans
From: [e-mail] (Claude Frantz)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna (CTHA)
Date: 11 Nov 96 14:19:22 GMT
Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <stefans.847721962@bauv111>
References: <55effj$[e-mail]> <55jd1t$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bauv111.bauv.unibw-muenchen.de
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV)

[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) writes:

>In article <55effj$[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:

>]>    This is called "experts" syndrome:  My mind is made up,
>>don't confuse me with the facts.  :) :)
>>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV

>Hi Tony,

>Chip's here, and he won't answer questions about fratals. I guess it's a
>case of do as I say, not as I do...eh? Or does your statement apply to
>both sides?

Please give us examples how to made a CTHA for the classical ham bands.
--
Claude
([e-mail])
The opinions expressed above represent those of the writer
and not necessarily those of her employer.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:58:46 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Dr. Craven doesn't appear to wish to come up on the newsgroup, at least
that's my speculation based upon the absence of a response.

I would like to make the following comments:

1) IAS, which issued the press release, is making an active solicitation
for funds (at least based on what my broker says) and the  brochure info
is...interesting. I suspect you can send for it by calling the IAS # on
the press release (if ur on aol try news search on 'antenna' and the press
release will come up).

2) The 10dB comment (in the press release) says nothing about 10 dB gain
over a dipole, or a frog, or a resistor. I speculate that its 10 dB gain
over a 1/8 wave monopole AT HIGH ANGLES. This number is believable,
especially in the context presented--OMNI pattern for the CTHA. By saying
it was an omni pattern I clearly interpreted this as NOT meaning a 'high
gain omni'. I do not see those words placed together in the press release.

3) High gain omni antennas do exist--I'll let one or two of you think
about this one for a while. There is a 'trick' afoot to doing it however,
and it certainly doesn't apply to small antennae.

4) With more reflection, I think the CTHA IS kind of neat, but not
necessarily novel. Nor do I feel it breaks any laws of physically small
antennas, nor is there 'magic' about, nor are the inventors making up
data.

Why don't one or two of you inventive types try building one and report
back? The bench is tied up here for a while so I can't get back to it
until January.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:16 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 11 Nov 1996 13:45:46 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 29
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

RE: Tom's fractal comment

No Tom; we will not discuss fractals on this thread.

If you want to find out why I won't discuss fractals on this newgroup--in
general--, then review the hours and hours of stuff I already posted--and
the response you received from someone else  ( they said:"SHUT THE F***
UP")  regarding your opinions on it.

Tom, as asked by someone else,  I would be interested on how YOU would
build a CTHA for the HF bands--and test it. (NOTE: the www.cira.wvu.edu
web page is more than adequate to get the idea on what a CTHA is....)
Would also be interested in your measured--or modelled--bandwidth; VSWR;
power pattern, and so on. In other words, rather than reviewing the press
release claims, give us a bit of detail on why this particular
antenna--NOT some  so-called class of antennae--is inadequate for
communications purposes, and how so. I think specifics on this design--as
described by you--would do much to enhance your reputation as someone to
listen to on antenna issues. Certainly I would be most interested, as I'm
sure other people reading this thread would.

Can you help us out?

Please fill us in.



Vy 73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:18 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 11 Nov 1996 15:43:55 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Once again, Chip, you present yourself as spokeperson for we mortals on
the group.  Personally, I don't think I need you to presume to speak for
me--and would really prefer you didn't.  Having said that:

It takes an investment in time to CAREFULLY build and test an experimental
antenna in a controlled fashion.  It also helps to have detailed
information that conforms to reasonal technical standards so you can make
an INFOMRMED decision about whether or not you even want to bother
replicating the work in question.  We've been presented with some very
provocative CLAIMS for the CTHA on the newsgroup, and it
has--indeed--provoked some response (you'll recall my initial reaction).
However, after more than a week of inquiery, no technical specifications
whatever have been provided.  Even if I built and tested one, how would I
know if I'd replicated the designer's results or not?

Rick -- K1BQT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:19 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 11 Nov 1996 23:09:25 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hi Chip--

No, of course Tom hasn't asked me to build a CTHA (???).  And, unless
someone presents a smattering of credible data that has at least a
tincture of common sense sprinkled into it, I probably won't waste a lot
of time building one of my own volition.  Do you build every antenna you
model on Mini-Nec?  The operant dynamic here is called common sense.

If you HAVE built one, why not share your findings with us?  I'd find that
more helpful than a shopping list of prescriptive advice.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:20 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 11 Nov 1996 16:48:32 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hi Rick--

Does Tom build antennas? Has he asked you to do it instead?

 I don't get it; why is it ok to CRITICIZE something that you feel is
incomplete but not build and test it? If we DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFO TO TEST
IT, we don't have enough info to criticize...

How would you know if its the same?? Why, you'd look at what they already
built on the cira web page and use your noggin..

Try a little 'reverse engineering'.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:22 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 11 Nov 1996 19:31:59 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Gosh, can I speak for myself too? I've elected no one else to speak for me
either, nor have I sanctioned anyone as my commander in chief. With that
in mind....

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>Hi Rick--
>Does Tom build antennas?

Tom builds antennas. He builds or designs little ones and big ones. He has
a phased arrays of receiving antennas that uses a total of 12 loops that
covers several octaves of bandwidth, and various other receiving antennas.
He has phased transmitting verticals on 160. He also has designed and
refined very small transmitting loops for medical applications, and larger
loops for industrial applications. Tom gets paid to do this.

>Has he asked you to do it instead?

What is "it"  and  "instead" of what?

> I don't get it; why is it ok to CRITICIZE something that you feel is
>incomplete but not build and test it?

Because some things people claim are just plain silly. Antennas follow
simple rules of performance, when someone comes along with nothing new
that makes no sense, I have low motivation. Now if it sounds reasonable,
or if I am not certain, I test the idea. If it's a new theory that makes
sense, I measure it to confirm it. If two credible sources disagree, I
build and measure and find out who is right.

But the key words are "credible" and "make sense".

>If we DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFO TO TEST
>IT, we don't have enough info to criticize...

Because Chip, none of this stuff is "magic". None of it is something
hidden that suddenly pops up. Antennas are not all that complicated, and
neither are the effects that make them work. A DDRR is a short vertical
loaded by a transmission line. It is the current in the vertical section
that causes it to radiate, and the rest just allows us to couple power
into it.

The CTHA antenna is a very simple short radiator, as are your small
Fractals. They are just different ways to cancel reactance in a small
antenna, so we can excite them with current. The more loss the loading
method adds, the poorer the performance.

Fractalize a DDRR and it will deteriorate, load it with a toroid and the
same will happen.

Now if we go through all kinds of care to load these small aperture
antennas by minimizing losses... while keeping current as uniform, in
phase, and large as possible over the linear spatial length of the
radiating section, we've done all we can.

>How would you know if its the same?? Why, you'd look at what they already
>built on the cira web page and use your noggin..
>Try a little 'reverse engineering'.

Inventors of wild and exaggerated claims should do the same.

Building an antenna is meaningless if it is going to be compared the way
these published reports and articles have described.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:23 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 13 Nov 1996 00:45:52 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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RE: Tom's comments

Well, that's that. Unless someone wants to present some data I vote for
retiring this thread.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:24 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 12 Nov 1996 13:16:29 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Rick--Are you getting all the thread postings?

I said I built a CTHA as per the cira web page. I did some preliminary
tests--gee, I like that word--'pre-lim-in-ary' ; has a sort of 'magic ' to
it; anyone who thinks it shouldn't be used is 'just plain silly'. I
reported them here. I see no reason to clear the lab of its schedule to
provide you with additional (free) information; ergo I will get back to it
when possible; probably in January. Perhaps if you would like to pay lab
costs we can speed up the process a bit.

Gee Rick, I seem to be the ONLY one who has built one of these babies;
how' bout you? Or shall we continue to build phalanxes of words instead of
antennas--and using excuses about supposed incompleteness. The cira web
sight
contains all you need to build a CTHA.

As for Tom, I have not seen any evidence that he has built ANY of the
antennas we discussed since I joined the newsgroup in August. Nor do I see
any evidence that he has acquired ANY of the references he pressed for. I
can't see that he's done anything but write thread messages! And lots
of'em! As for him building antennas for a living--so what? Is this such a
strange job for ANYONE on this newsgroup??

Contribute--don't criticize. Critique--don't deny. Or is it all
still--quote you--'bullsh*t??

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:24 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 12 Nov 1996 20:34:45 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>How 'bout YOU Thomas? Everyone would be deeply grateful if you could
>critique this antenna based upon your personal experience, and your
>(truthfully) excellent experimental procedure.

Who do you speak for Chip when you say "everyone"? Did some group elect
you representative when I wasn't looking?

And tell me again why I should build one? I already understand antenna
theory. I don't use tiny little inefficient toy antennas on the air, so I
have no use for it.

 >I promise you guys you can build one in less than an hour; about the
time
>of  2 of Tom's posts.

Not for me, I don't build or measure things sloppily. It would probably
take a day or two to do correctly.

Let's talk about the MI-2 "quad" that isn't a quad, and your gain claims
instead.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:27 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 12 Nov 1996 21:42:59 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I doubt very much, at this point, that Dr. Craven will be joining us.
Therefore, if there continues to be interest in the CTHA it should
concentrate on reporting our results, or perhaps the thread should be
retired.

I am not at liberty to discuss my communication, but I have been in touch
with Dr. Craven. I respect his position as an inventor with a company that
wishes to protect intellectual property. Perhaps he may choose to make a
summary of comments here on the thread at a later date. I , for one, will
welcome him.

If Dr. Craven seeks to publish through patents that's perfectly OK by
me--the newsgroup wreaks of 'shareware-itis' anyway. And I certainly don't
think its a copout--or fabrication--to decide not to report specific
results into the wind of the web. I'm not sure where  some of you guys get
the idea that a newsgroup is a substitute for publication.

I can't help thinking that if some of you fellows had been a little more
open minded we could have learned something new. Perhaps, after my
experience here, this is NOT surprising (special 'hello' to 'taanya'-- a
thread-creature of a new  low only to be beat by the fetid responses to
the poor guy who hurt himself in the thread 'Goodbye'). At least I'm here
to stay for a breath of refreshment; certainly have enjoyed my welcome.

I will report my CTHA results at a later date. And yes; I do have results
for those shrooky beasts who seem to doubt that I have them.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:28 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 12 Nov 1996 22:15:32 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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RE: Tom :' What Chip Thinks'

What's to think? Am I supposed to be insulted? The man's entitled to his
opinion.
Would you like me to respond " 'Oh, I've been SO naughty! And I don't know
ANYTHING! And all those antennas I discuss are evanscent whims!  I'm SO
ashamed! Bloody me!'. NOT.

Do you feel that this is a game with points for running over pedestrians?
If so, you are a bit mistaken. Please return to the CTHA.

 In fact, please BUILD AND REPORT YOUR RESULTS on a CTHA. Would be very
interested, from a purely scientific and non-contentious standpoint, in
your results. Why? Because I think YOU, of all people HERE, have the
practical knowledge to decide certain issues on the CTHA. Why pass up an
opportunity to give some  real answers? Why not have some fun and BUILD
it? I'm sure there are many here who would take your results as
gospel--once you build and test it.

It would be much easier , with the results, to separate your opinion from
the data.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:29 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:10:18 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 58
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Hello Jack,
In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
writes:

>After reading the biggest message groups, I get the feeling that they're
>about something other than meant to be discussed. W8JITom doesn't seem to
>like fractal antennas (which actually sound pretty interesting to me.

Let me say exactly what it is I "don't like". I don't like confusing
people with hyperbole and jargon. I don't like people who spread BS.

Antennas all follow rules, and sometimes claims are made that violate
these rules. I feel these cases should be pointed out. Fractals are just
descriptions of shapes, they have nothing to do with radiation. It would
be just as valid to give lectures on "straight wires" or "helices", there
is no magic in a Fractal.

> Fractenna
>doesn't seem to like Tom. W8JITom doesn't like fractenna.

I have only one personal diagreement with Chip. I don't enjoy watching
immature behavior. It makes everyone involved look very very stupid.

I do have many technical disagreements with him, and I can point out many
areas where he misrepresents fact. I'd like to discuss those areas, so you
or someone else can correct me if I am mistaken.

>W8JITom doesn't seem to like any
>small antennas (perhaps thats only new ones)

I don't "like" or "dislike" any antenna. I don't eat them, sleep with
them, or wear them. I don't name myself or my children after them, drive
them in parades, or collect them.

Small antennas have their place. I have spent thousands of hours designing
small "antennas" for medical and industrial applications.

I use a "small antenna" on my truck, and spent hundreds of hours
optimizing that system. I have a three foot loop on my tower, and arrays
of small loops for receiving antennas.

What I don't like are false claims.

>and refuses to consider building them.

Why should I build something that is both difficult to optimize and
inferior in perfomance, especially when I have no use for it?

Why don't the purveyors of these highly efficient antennas support their
claims with hard data?

Supply good data and, if I disagree, I'll build an antenna and test it.
Supply techno-garbage, and I'll ask for better data.

Finally, if something I say is technically incorrect, please correct me.
After all, most of us are here to learn and help each other learn.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:30 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 12 Nov 1996 22:54:24 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Hi Chip--

When I want prescriptions, I go to a doctor.  When I want lab time, I go
to a professional.

73--

Rick


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:31 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 13 Nov 1996 03:17:06 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Hi Rick--

That's ok; you won't get a thing from me.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:33 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 13 Nov 1996 04:12:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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RE: Tom's comment

An 'MI2' is a fractal loop Tom; you seem to be confusing your aerials. Not
a Moore quad; certainly its not a CTHA, which is the subject of this
thread. Its a super antenna, which we already discussed. Great figure of
merit. Interesting field strength advantage compared to loaded  euclidean
loop. Time permitting, will continue to give info via e-mail as we have
exhausted the fractal thread.

Suggest you try building  a CTHA and report back to us.

Or, better yet, dig out the Linden and Altschuler paper on the 7-wire
chaotic fractal and tell us what you think. March 96 Microwave Journal.
Peer reviewed. Derived from a genetic algorithm. You can get it on
interlibrary loan, or drop by Georgia Tech's library. THAT would be an
informative re-opening of a fractal antenna thread. Not a CTHA
thread--don't stick it here.  Not a DDRR thread--don't stick it there. Bet
some readers would love to see what you say; certainly they're sick of us
bitchin at each other about it, irrespective of how stimulating it is to
us.

Incidentally, if you get on 'dejanews' and check 'fractal antenna' you
will note that you have acquired the distinction of referencing fractal
antennae twice as many times off-thread as on. The 7-wire could be your
chance to r-e-a-l-l-y get this 'fractal thing' off your chest. Also, it
would remove the personality dynamic and--I guarantee you-- get several
new people onto the newsgroup who speak your language.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:34 1996
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From: William Osborne <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:44:49 -0600
Organization: The University of Texas at Dallas
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Roy Lewallen wrote:
>
> I see that this thread continues to be heated. Maybe Dr. Craven's response
> will help clarify matters. (Thanks, Chip for the suggestion to contact
> him.) I received his reply a couple of days ago. I asked whether he would
> prefer me to post his letter verbatum or to paraphrase it and was giving
> him time to answer, which he hasn't yet done. I've decided, though, that it
> would be best in any case to post his message verbatum so there isn't any
> chance of misinterpreting what he said, so here it is. First my question to
> him, which I posted here earlier:
>
> Dear sir:
>
> Press releases about the contrawound toroidal helical antenna have raised
> interest in several Internet newsgroups. However, none of the readers has
> seen any quantitative data regarding the antenna's performance. If you
> would send me any information you have about the antenna's gain, pattern,
> efficiency, and impedance, I'd be glad to post in on the relevant
> newsgroups for you. Any other quantitative technical information, or
> results of laboratory tests which you would be willing to release, would
> also be welcome. I'm sure that this antenna will create even more interest
> when its attributes are more widely known.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Roy Lewallen, P.E.
>
> phone [phone]
> fax   [phone]
> email [e-mail]
>
> 5470 SW 152nd Ave.
> Beaverton, OR 97007
>
> and here is his response:
>
> Roy Lewallen,
>    Thankyou for your interest in the CTHA.  I apologize for not being
> more forthcoming with quantitive technical information but do to the
> proprietary nature of our patented antenna I am limited in what I can
> send out.  We did present a paper at MilCom this year titled "Resonant
> Frequency Prediction of the CTHA."  I can tell you that it has a nearly
> isotropic radiation pattern, is circularly polarized, and has
> effectively communicated with a satellite using low power.  Due to the
> large number of parameters which govern CTHA performance it is not
> completely optimized yet.  (This may be part of why I have been limited
> in communicating technical specifications.)  I am authorized to extend
> an invitation to you to come see our CTHA program firsthand.
>
> [short personal note deleted]
>
> Thank you again
> Robert Craven
>
> I have asked where I might get a copy of the paper.
>
> Roy Lewallen


Roy, his answer may explain why they consider the CTHA important.  In
the satellite business circular polarization is for various reasons the
perfered mode and in handheld devices (like future satellite mobile
phones) it has been very difficult to get wide angle coverage and good
circular polarization.  If they have solved this problem then it is an
important development for the satellite comm industry.

73, Bill, AA5ZQ


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:35 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:36:52 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Mr. W8JITom--

With regards to your reply, I do not feel it is the mission of my
remaining years to correct loud, rude, opinionated individuals, such as
yourself (at least more than once).  Especially when they are wrong.  My
son has suggested I filter you out and shall proceed thus.

Wish someone had warned me that this was really CB in disguise. You have
managed to convince me.

Jack


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:35 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 13 Nov 1996 23:40:27 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Hi Tom--

I too don't agree with what Jack is saying but I think you are only
reinforcing his point. There is a reasonable thread on fractals you can
pursue; why not go for it?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:36 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 14 Nov 1996 23:46:35 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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RE: Bill's comments

There are several other vendors with CP miniature antennas so I would not
be surprised if this is what they're (IAS) after. Recall in one of my
earlier postings I compared to a small monopole (which is LP); obviously
doesn't have CP or hemi-coverage.

Satellites use CP because linear gets (Faraday) rotated and (Faraday)
depolarized, causing fading.

I reiterate that I sincerely doubt that the 10db gain figure--quoted
extensively in this newsgroup-- refers to 10dBi OR 10dBd (in free space).
I also hope we might remain open to new application ideas without
necessarily assuming that they are invoking new physics. Best to all.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:37 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:21:21 GMT
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RE: Craven's reply

Thanks for that follow-thru Roy. I do not have the paper but will ask Dr.
Craven sometime soon.

I,too, was extended an invitation to visit and will do so if time and
money allow; probably NOT in near future.

Seems a reasonable fellow to me.

73 All!
Chip N1IR



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:38 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 15 Nov 1996 01:01:09 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <56epu5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>send out.  We did present a paper at MilCom this year titled "Resonant
>Frequency Prediction of the CTHA."  I can tell you that it has a nearly
>isotropic radiation pattern, is circularly polarized, and has
>effectively communicated with a satellite using low power.  Due to the
>large number of parameters which govern CTHA performance it is not
>completely optimized yet.

Thanks Roy.

Looks like no data is available except it's omni-directional and they
talked to a satellite using one for an antenna.

I think it's safe to conclude at this point it has no gain, but it does
radiate. That narrows the specs down a little.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 09:48:44 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 58
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

I see that this thread continues to be heated. Maybe Dr. Craven's response
will help clarify matters. (Thanks, Chip for the suggestion to contact
him.) I received his reply a couple of days ago. I asked whether he would
prefer me to post his letter verbatum or to paraphrase it and was giving
him time to answer, which he hasn't yet done. I've decided, though, that it
would be best in any case to post his message verbatum so there isn't any
chance of misinterpreting what he said, so here it is. First my question to
him, which I posted here earlier:

Dear sir:

Press releases about the contrawound toroidal helical antenna have raised
interest in several Internet newsgroups. However, none of the readers has
seen any quantitative data regarding the antenna's performance. If you
would send me any information you have about the antenna's gain, pattern,
efficiency, and impedance, I'd be glad to post in on the relevant
newsgroups for you. Any other quantitative technical information, or
results of laboratory tests which you would be willing to release, would
also be welcome. I'm sure that this antenna will create even more interest
when its attributes are more widely known.

Thanks very much,

Roy Lewallen, P.E.

phone [phone]
fax   [phone]
email [e-mail]

5470 SW 152nd Ave.
Beaverton, OR 97007



and here is his response:

Roy Lewallen,
   Thankyou for your interest in the CTHA.  I apologize for not being
more forthcoming with quantitive technical information but do to the
proprietary nature of our patented antenna I am limited in what I can
send out.  We did present a paper at MilCom this year titled "Resonant
Frequency Prediction of the CTHA."  I can tell you that it has a nearly
isotropic radiation pattern, is circularly polarized, and has
effectively communicated with a satellite using low power.  Due to the
large number of parameters which govern CTHA performance it is not
completely optimized yet.  (This may be part of why I have been limited
in communicating technical specifications.)  I am authorized to extend
an invitation to you to come see our CTHA program firsthand.

[short personal note deleted]

Thank you again
Robert Craven


I have asked where I might get a copy of the paper.

Roy Lewallen


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:40 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CTHA
Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:46:21 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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RE: Jack's Comments

Well, that was interesting!

Can we  either build CTHA's or retire the thread please?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:41 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 15 Nov 1996 12:25:16 GMT
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RE: Tom's comment

Tom, I'm glad you have finally concluded what has been clear for some
time: the CTHA is NOT a high gain omni. Could you clarify what it was that
lead you to that assumption? I actually see LESS information in Dr.
Craven's reply than what we previously had available to us, so I'm not
sure what he said that made the point for you. Also feel, now more than
ever, that your critique of an actual CTHA in your lab would do wonders to
help us out. Please consider building one, as per the simple prototype
described in www.cira.wvu.edu. I can't get onto the lab bench with it til
January (Phil's got it booked on cell antennas and doesn't want me to '
touch ANYTHING'), but I can certainly give you additional  design details
if you're missing some from the web page. I'd dig out an MFJ 259 but as I
recall the CTHA  return loss was not very good to 50 ohms so that won't be
much help on an SWR analyser.

Start with a low, non-lossy ring and reasonably thick, insulated wire. I
used 12 turns across the ring. Basically the antenna looks like a split
wire wrapped around a torus to complete a closed loop. Only electrical
connection in this simple one is at the feed.

73
Chip N1IR




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:42 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 16 Nov 1996 01:15:58 GMT
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RE: Rick's comment

'Craven ' images? Well, its funny. But I suspect that Dr. Craven would
prefer to tell us what the antenna does and management sez no...so lets
not judge him cuz we don't know the circumstances.

Cheers
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Francesco Bandini)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cubical Quad or stacked Yagis ??
Date: 15 Nov 96 17:03:48 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961115190148.1e275614@gateway>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Hello people of Antenna's enthusiast!
My question is simple: wich of the following setup will give me the best
performances for DX ?

1) A five-band TWO elements Quad (14-18-21-24-28 Mhz), for example the PKW
   Classic 2E/special, with fixed spacing between elements of 2.4 mt

2) A KLM KT34-XA (six elements for 14-21-28) and a Cushcraft A3WS (three els.
   for 18-24) stacked 3 mt. above on the same mast

The beam (or beams) will be installed on a tower about 19 meters height.

In addiction: can somebody suggest to me wich could be the best antenna
configuration (for five band DX-ing) on a single tower? The limits are my
rotor, a G1000 SDX Yaesu and the type of the tower, with lateral ascending cag
e.

                      Mni tnx in advance, Francis IK5XWA from Firenze



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:43 1996
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From: "Kevin A. Fontes" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cushcraft R-7 Chimney Mount?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:53:53 -0800
Organization: KI0EB
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Hello all,
I am still trying to get my R-7 mounted some how.  Since I am renting
the house (2 years max) I want to minimize mounting effects on the
house.  Has anyone ever tried a mount to the chimney like the product
radio shack uses?  I looked into it but the mast it uses is 1 inch O. D.
 The R-7 base would prefer something on the order of 1.5".  Does anyone
have any experience with this?

Thanks so much in advance!

73
Kevin Fontes
KI0EB


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:44 1996
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From: "Kevin A. Fontes" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cushcraft R-7 Mounting Questions
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 06:04:27 -0800
Organization: KI0EB
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Hello,
I just moved to a new location.  I have an R-7 vertical and I would like
to mount it on my new two-story house.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance
Kevin A. Fontes
Omaha, NE
KI0EB


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:45 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Kissell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Cushcraft R-7 Mounting Questions
Date: 9 Nov 1996 10:33:58 -0600
Organization: Omnifest
Lines: 19
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <562bpm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.70.58

Get a 5 ft. tripod (I got mine from Amateur Electronic Supply).  Mount the R7
on the highest part of the roof of your house, in the clear (especially clear
of phone, cable TV and power lines).  Use a lightning arrestor.  Guy it with
the heaviest gauge guying rope from Synthetic Textiles (they advertise in CQ;
I bought it from AES) in at least three directions.

If you do all this, your R7 is likely to work perfectly from the moment you
put it up.  Mine has!  Since 1993, using a barefoot TS-940SAT and an R7
mounted on the roof of my 1 1/2 story home in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I have
worked TONS of DX.  I have routinely worked 3B8CF and R1FJL on 30 and 40m,
plus VQ9TP, 4K2MAL, FO5EM, UA2FB, GI0SSP, LU8VCC, YO4CTO/MM, HK6KKK, RA9LI/9,
UY5AO, LU4KV, 9X/ON4WW, LX9UN, XR0Y, TI2CF/H7, V44KAI, J28JA, IS0/DL2SBY,
HC5AI, ZF2TY/8, GD0TEP, 8P9II, LZ1ND, OM3TB/MM, 5N0/OK1MU, PR8BNP, 3Z2UKB,
YL3IZ/MM, EA8/OH2BYB/P, FG5GI, PZ1DV, 6W6JX, LU6Z, CU1AC, FS/WX9E, EA8EA,
9A3A/4U, C56CW, DL5XX/HC8, 3DA0CA, 9U/EA1FH, 4X4WF, RA0BA, FS5HI, & EM1U.

73,

Rick WB9GYT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:46 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrcae!news
From: webbte <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cushcraft R-7 Mounting Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (webbte)
Organization: NCR Corporation
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:26:04 GMT
Lines: 22

Kevin - mount it as high as you can. I used a RS chimney mount
with a 5 foot chain link fence post as the base mount, then
clamped the R7 onto that. So it was a good 4 feet above the
chimney. It worked great for over 3 years, before I moved. Now
I'm trying to figure out a stealth arrangement for the R7 in my
new neighborhood.

ted / w4NE (ex-AC4CS/WA4KWG)
>=========="Kevin A. Fontes", 11/8/96==========
>
>Hello,
>I just moved to a new location.  I have an R-7 vertical and I
would like
>to mount it on my new two-story house.  Does anyone have any
>suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Kevin A. Fontes
>Omaha, NE
>KI0EB




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:47 1996
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From: Kent Winrich <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Cushcraft R-7 Mounting Questions
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:33:48 -0600
Organization: Exec-PC BBS Internet - Milwaukee, WI
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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What did you use for a ground plane??

Kent, NI9U

webbte wrote:
>
> Kevin - mount it as high as you can. I used a RS chimney mount
> with a 5 foot chain link fence post as the base mount, then
> clamped the R7 onto that. So it was a good 4 feet above the
> chimney. It worked great for over 3 years, before I moved. Now
> I'm trying to figure out a stealth arrangement for the R7 in my
> new neighborhood.
>
> ted / w4NE (ex-AC4CS/WA4KWG)
> >=========="Kevin A. Fontes", 11/8/96==========
> >
> >Hello,
> >I just moved to a new location.  I have an R-7 vertical and I
> would like
> >to mount it on my new two-story house.  Does anyone have any
> >suggestions?
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >Kevin A. Fontes
> >Omaha, NE
> >KI0EB


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:48 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!psinntp!psinntp!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrcae!news
From: webbte <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cushcraft R-7 Mounting Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (webbte)
Organization: NCR Corporation
X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:26:23 GMT
Lines: 34

Kent - I used just used the 5 std radials that came with the R7.
Nothing special.

ted w4NE (ex-AC4CS/WA4KWG)
>==========Kent Winrich, 11/12/96==========
>
>What did you use for a ground plane??
>
>Kent, NI9U
>
>webbte wrote:
>>
>> Kevin - mount it as high as you can. I used a RS chimney mount
>> with a 5 foot chain link fence post as the base mount, then
>> clamped the R7 onto that. So it was a good 4 feet above the
>> chimney. It worked great for over 3 years, before I moved. Now
>> I'm trying to figure out a stealth arrangement for the R7 in my
>> new neighborhood.
>>
>> ted / w4NE (ex-AC4CS/WA4KWG)
>> >=========="Kevin A. Fontes", 11/8/96==========
>> >
>> >Hello,
>> >I just moved to a new location.  I have an R-7 vertical and I
>> would like
>> >to mount it on my new two-story house.  Does anyone have any
>> >suggestions?
>> >
>> >Thanks in advance
>> >Kevin A. Fontes
>> >Omaha, NE
>> >KI0EB




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE:DDRR
Date: 9 Nov 1996 00:18:15 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 31
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Hi There!

Got an  e-mail from someone who has a 2M DDRR on his van. Interesting!
(Unfortunately, he was driven off the newsgroup by a certain individual
who has omni-opinions.) I will keep your call anonymous;but I applaude
your experimental efforts. I'm sorry this other individual inhibited you;
bullies need to be put in their place.

The data relevant to others might include the following: 2 inches high (I
think that's about 1/40 of a wave (APPROXIMATELY) and 6dB down from a 1/4
wave. My impression is that he finds the DDRR a worthwhile option compared
to ,say, an internal rubber duckie. This is the 'classic' DDRR which is a
1/4 wave perimeter with a variable cap shunting to ground. Other forms are
higher (about 1/20 to 1/15 of a wave) and 1 wave in perimeter.

Any other results?

73
Chip N1IR














From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re:DDRR
Date: 9 Nov 1996 14:05:20 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Finally got onto dejanews and dug out the Summer comments on the DDRR.

Tom, W8JI is absolutely right: the DDRR is a loaded vertical antenna where
the horizontally polarized components (from the ground and ring) cancel in
the far field. Having modeled this last February I can vouch for that
approximation. Of course, that description was published LONG before we
discussed it on the newsgroup--see Les Moxon  ('HF Antennas for All
Locations'); the 'Small Antenna' chapter. This info has been available to
the ham community for some time. It hardly invalidates its use for those
who prefer the DDRR.

There ARE other DDRR versions, some also described in Moxon . They don't
use coils or caps; just pure, lovely antenna.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 9 Nov 1996 17:12:56 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 28
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>(Unfortunately, he was driven off the newsgroup by a certain individual
>who has omni-opinions.) I will keep your call anonymous;but I applaude
>your experimental efforts. I'm sorry this other individual inhibited you;
>bullies need to be put in their place.

chip, you are a slow learner babydoll.

I have read this newsgroup quietly for three years now, this is only my
fifth transmission in that time, but you have made me furious.

You are the poorest contributor and biggest crybaby jerk to surface in
three years, alvatroz is second. Always going after some unseen enemy with
personal remarks like a God of netiquette, always blaming other people for
everything that is your very own doing. Never missing a change to be nasty
to someone. You are brand new, break every rule of manners, and pick
fights. You start the stuff up, and then blame others for responding.

You are ruining what was a nice usegroup. Since you and alvatroz have
signed on posts have dropped 62%. Keep your nasty filthy childish
condemning mouth tightly shut, and quit making an absolute fool out of
yourself.

chip the mouth....don't go away mad, just go away.

Taanya


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 9 Nov 1996 22:35:03 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 22
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RE: Taanya

This response of yours is not about the DDRR, 'Taanya', and if you had any
guts you'd tell us who you really are, and why you feel compelled to caste
sexual aspersions upon others--but not on an antenna newsgroup.

As for the drop in responses, you would do well to see who, by a factor of
ten, makes  the most contributions (if you want to call them that) to this
newsgroup. This might account for the supposed drop in responses as of
late.

I am not going away, if I want to say something. You're not obligated to
read; just pass it up if you wish.

Get back to the DDRR, Taanya--IF you have anything to say about it--or go
back to your other aol login, from which you DO make contributions to this
newsgroup.

Also, it might be appropriate to point out that you are a man.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:52 1996
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From: Wayne Price <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 22:44:41 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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Fractenna wrote:
>
> Hi There--
>
> Anyone built or modelled one of these 'hula hoop' antennas? Would be
> interested to know your results. (I have the 'book' results: what have YOU
> found?)
>
> 73
> Chip N1IR

Chip--
I carefully built a DDRR for 2 meters several years ago.  It was built
from 1/4 inch copper pipe, about 2 inches tall, and had a small variable
at the end for tuning.  With my typical ham test equipment....homemade
attenuator, rf sniffer, etc.  I estimated that it was at least 6 db
below a 1/4 wave vertical.  I added a 10 db power amplifier and forgot
about the inefficiency.

The antenna was great.  It permitted me to drive my van into parking
structures without banging the antenna.

--Wayne   W5GIE in Redlands, CA


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:53 1996
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From: Wayne Price <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:03:28 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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[e-mail] wrote:

>(Unfortunately, he was driven off the newsgroup by a certain individual
>who has omni-opinions.) I will keep your call anonymous;but I applaude
>your experimental efforts. I'm sorry this other individual inhibited you;
>bullies need to be put in their place.

Chip--
I posted the message about the 2 meter DDRR mounted on a van, and gave
my callsign.  I have never had a problem with anyone on this newsgroup.

--Wayne   W5GIE in Redlands, CA


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:54 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 13:18:39 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 6
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Hi Wayne--

Wasn't you.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:55 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 21:45:00 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>Stick to the thread Tom; the point is you drove people off the DDRR
thread
>last summer.

Chip,

>That what was said; I didn't make it up. I believe you were described as
>'obnoxious'.

I find it ironic you seem to think YOUR insults are  "relevant to
threads".

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>Got an  e-mail from someone who has a 2M DDRR on his van. Interesting!

then you launch into this:

>(Unfortunately, he was driven off the newsgroup by a certain individual
>who has omni-opinions.) I will keep your call anonymous;but I applaude
>your experimental efforts. I'm sorry this other individual inhibited you;
>bullies need to be put in their place.

Was that "invented" to start another fight so you could get some needed
attantion?  Because as you continued on you said:

>The data relevant to others might include the following: 2 inches high (I
>think that's about 1/40 of a wave (APPROXIMATELY) and 6dB down from a 1/4
>wave.

Because the source of that data said:

In article <[e-mail]>, Wayne Price
<[e-mail]> writes:

>Chip--
>I posted the message about the 2 meter DDRR mounted on a van, and gave
>my callsign.  I have never had a problem with anyone on this newsgroup.
>
>--Wayne   W5GIE in Redlands, CA

If you have something nasty to say, E-mail me. I'll give you all the
attention you require without bothering others. There's no need to post
your insults to hundreds of others that care less. You have my full
attention, and I will be happy to entertain you in direct E-mail as long
as you like so others need not suffer your antics.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:56 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 15:57:50 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>, Wayne Price
<[e-mail]> writes:

>Chip--
>I posted the message about the 2 meter DDRR mounted on a van, and gave
>my callsign.  I have never had a problem with anyone on this newsgroup.
>
>--Wayne   W5GIE in Redlands, CA

My appolgies to everyone.

Chips remarks are intended for me, even though he makes them in public.
Don't let them confuse you, or take up more space than they do.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:57 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:48:12 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 8
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Stick to the thread Tom; the point is you drove people off the DDRR thread
last summer.

That what was said; I didn't make it up. I believe you were described as
'obnoxious'.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:58 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 18:17:11 GMT
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Chip--

You might want to be careful about targeting others on this group
"obnoxious" (re: casting the first stone, and all of that). I invited you
here, some months ago, to share your ideas on fractal elements for
critical review.  Since that time, I've seen about all of the "obnoxious"
I wish to see--and most of it under your byline. I can't take back the
invitation.  But, on behalf of myself and Comm Quarterly, I can--and
do--apologize to the group for bringing you here.

-- Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:58 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:59:12 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Wow, thanks for straightening that out!  You're right, it never happened.

--Rick


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:58:59 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 20:12:15 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Yes Rick, so you can't feel guilty about something that didn't happen. I
do not feel you are responsible for my opinions and comments and don't
think that was implied. Ergo if someone wants to 'blame' you for my
presence, you should feel at ease.

A colleague invited me to come onto the antenna newsgroup; I don't think
he's a participant in the discussions however--and he warned me about a
specific individual. I do, however, want to thank you for giving me the
info on what mouse clicks got me onto the newsgroup though--in response to
his invitation by e-mail.

Incidentally, see Madjid's 'RE: DDRR--Results'  for some fascinating DDRR
stuff, as we focus on the thread.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:00 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 22:08:18 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 6
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RE: Tom Comments

Perhaps your right, Tom. Let's stick to the thread.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:01 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 10 Nov 1996 18:50:26 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Rick--

You owe no one an apology. You didn't bring me to this newsgroup; don't
know why you would say so. In fact, I can't even thank you for making me
aware of this newsgroup since you weren't the one to point it out.

 And there you go with fractals again; this is a DDRR thread. Do you have
any DDRR comments?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
So, back to the DDRR.

I have a microwave DDRR on the bench up 1/15 waves. 1 wave in
circumference. It is shunted to ground--twice. Over a GP a little bigger
than itself. I'm getting a 10% BW, and about unity to a 1/4 wave. Anyone
else play with this variant?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:02 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:01:18 +0000
Organization: IFW Technical Services
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 <[e-mail]>
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Rick  K1BQT wrote:
>Chip--
>
>You might want to be careful about targeting others on this group
>"obnoxious" (re: casting the first stone, and all of that). I invited you
>here, some months ago, to share your ideas on fractal elements for
>critical review.  Since that time, I've seen about all of the "obnoxious"
>I wish to see--and most of it under your byline. I can't take back the
>invitation.  But, on behalf of myself and Comm Quarterly, I can--and
>do--apologize to the group for bringing you here.
>
No apology required, Rick. It's time for the onlookers to stand up and
be counted.

The reason I've stayed out of this newsgroup for several weeks is not
Tom or anybody like him, but specifically Chip and altavoz.

Tom is absolutely ruthless on technical matters, but he's not personal
unless somebody provokes him first. Even when arguing against him, I
know exactly where he's coming from. I'm comfortable with that.

The same applies to Bill, Roy, Cecil, Gary, Charlie, Kevin and many
others. I respect both their technical knowledge and their approach to
discussion. Nobody knows everything, so we can all argue passionately
and generate a lot of heat - but the heat is intellectual, not personal.
There's an unspoken agreement that we all want to get to the right
answer.

This newsgroup *needs* people who are prepared to be ruthless on
technical matters - and these are also the people who give the most
helpful answers to basic questions from beginners.

What this newsgroup doesn't need is people who throw up a smokescreen as
soon as they begin to feel the heat.


73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:03 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:45:18 -0800
Organization: none
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         <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
>

>
> This newsgroup *needs* people who are prepared to be ruthless

Well, maybe not exactly *ruthless*. You don't exactly mean ruthless!!!

> on
> technical matters - and these are also the people who give the most
> helpful answers to basic questions from beginners.

Jolly good show, old chap. Give my regards to the Queen Mum.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 12 Nov 1996 21:09:14 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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RE: Ian's Comments

That's a pity, Ian, because the whole point of the internet is its a 'vox
pop'.
Unfortunately, I am not going to go away, so perhaps you might calibrate
your interest based upon that.

With Very Best Wishes

Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 12 Nov 1996 22:02:55 GMT
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RE:Tom's Comments

Chipanzee!

HAHAHAH!

Tell you what: you can call me 'Chipanzee' if I can call you 'Antenna
God'.

OK; let's get back to the DDRR, shall we?

Tom--can you tell us a little about your  loop array? Is it for more than
one freq.? What's the q? Really am interested. Perhaps a 'loop array'
thread...

73
Chip N1IR




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:05 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:08:00 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 14
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RE: Madjid's results

I find this fascinating! Have you tried a PIFA  type of feed? What about
the 1 wave rings? NEAT STUFF! See my latest ' RE: DDRR'  posting.

I agree; the ARRL 'tailpipe special' isn't the best DDRR, but as you have
said, there are others!

Thanks for having the intestinal fortitude to come on the newsgroup; we
need people to share their comments, not feel that they're using the
'wrong' antenna based on someone' else's opinion on what a 'better' on is!

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 21:45:05 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hi Madjid,

In article <[e-mail]>, Madjid <[e-mail]> writes:

>I posted some messages on the DDRR some time ago. Tom (W8JI) said
>that it is a very inefficient radiator .... but I think that we
>were not talking about the same thing.

>The one ring need a SOLID GROUND below. Boyer and his team made
>some measurements and found that radials, grid wire etc DO NOT
>work because return currents in the near field are not really
>radial. If you go to my home page in the picture section you
>will see an old picture of BOYER's DDRRs and the 1/2 square mile
>SOLID COPPER GROUND. In that configuration the DDRR is a vertical
>short monopole.

Then we agree Madjid. But few Hams have a 1/2 square mile copper ground,
and even if they did a short vertical with a hat would radiate just as
effectively.

>To solve the problem of solid ground, Boyer designed a TWO ring DDRR.
>In that configuration the top and bottom ring act as a gigantic open
>line transmission line between the source and capacitor. As with open
>lines, losses are minimal and interaction with the environment reduced.

Losses will increase by a factor of two when compared to the perfect
groundplane case. But that may be better than a poor groundplane. In any
event, if DDRR rings are replaced with disks the radiation efficiency
remains the same. So the antenna is understandable in this configuration.

Hams should NOT confuse it with an antenna made out of a small more
resistive element like wire or pipe with junctions, nor should they use a
lossy conventional air type capacitor.

>Even at 3 feet above ground for the 80m DDRR, there is however an
>interaction with the ground by capacitive coupling. For one KW the
>RF current in the vertical post is in the 50 Amp range and this is
>one of the reasons for the "efficiency". The Near Field is almost
>entierely magnetic and Magnetic losses in the ground are negligible
>(see Ground losses below). Radiation resistance (Calculated) is .9 ohms
>so any small defect in contacts, reduced size of pipes, use of iron
>instead of Aluminium or copper will deteriorate the performance of
>the antenna very rapidly.


We will have to agree to disagree about ground losses, since FS
measurements seem to be in dispute with that Madjid.

>Horizontal sections do not contribute to the Far field and you get
>a very low angle (20-26 TOA) BUT DX performance is still related
>to Brewster angle. If you got bad ground around your QTH forget it!

Hence radiation field losses are important. Also Madjid, the time varying
magnetic induction field is always accompanied by a time varying electric
field. perhaps you saw the thread with Roy Lewallen and the rest?

>We have in VE2, four or five guys who build different types of
>2 ring DDRRs (20m wire, 20m 1/4" cop.tube, 80m wire, heliax and
>4" Aluminium tubing by VE2DLJ). Preliminary tests with the 20m DDRR
>(wire and 1/4" cop. tube) showed surprisingly that performance was
>equivalent to a three element beam for Europe. I find that a little
>bit too much, but the two guys who made the measurements have both
>PhDs in Physics and were not drunk at the time so I have to accept
>that. They made multiple contacts and A/B tests from the same QTH.

I find that impossible to believe, unless the tribander was very poor.
Even if the DDRR antenna was 100% efficient, it has less directivity than
a dipole. Witout directivity, it can have no gain.

>Is the DDRR a magical antenna ? NO ! VE2HQ with his beam at 130 feet
>has consistently beaten Tony with his DDRRs. Reception on the DDRRs is
>however superior even with the omni pattern. Compilation of results will
>be done next spring and posted in my page (Pictures & Antenna shootout).

On what band?  If it is on HF then location can have much more to do with
it than antenna gain.

We seem to agree on most of this Madjid, except the groud loss issue.
Antenna's work the way they work, and none of it is magic. The only area
lacking in scientific data surrounds induction field effects in soil.

From your original post, I gathered the claim was made a DDRR would beat
larger full size antennas. of course, that is a claim we both have
problems with, as you pointed out.

I can work VK longpath from my mobile with a conventional hat loaded
vertical on 75, and I have worked VK shortpath on 160 also. That antenna
is 1% efficient on 160 (measured and calculated data), and perhaps 15% on
75 (calculated). We have to be careful using over the air data.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:08 1996
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From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:13:03 -0500
Organization: Utter Chaos
Lines: 22
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[e-mail] wrote:
>

<lots of other interesting stuff snipped>

> Losses will increase by a factor of two when compared to the perfect
> groundplane case. But that may be better than a poor groundplane. In any
> event, if DDRR rings are replaced with disks the radiation efficiency
> remains the same.

<still more interesting stuff snipped>

This seems to be the key issue here Tom.  How do you evaluate
radiation efficiency, and why should disks be a similar
substitute?

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:09 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Date: 11 Nov 1996 19:51:09 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 21
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Madjid ([e-mail]) wrote:

: We have in VE2, four or five guys who build different types of
: 2 ring DDRRs (20m wire, 20m 1/4" cop.tube, 80m wire, heliax and
: 4" Aluminium tubing by VE2DLJ). Preliminary tests with the 20m DDRR
: (wire and 1/4" cop. tube) showed surprisingly that performance was
: equivalent to a three element beam for Europe. I find that a little
: bit too much, but the two guys who made the measurements have both
: PhDs in Physics and were not drunk at the time so I have to accept
: that. They made multiple contacts and A/B tests from the same QTH.

You shouldn't accept this because they have Ph.D.s in physics. One key
word here is preliminary. When people give talks at conferences and
say their "preliminary results are ..." they are telling you that they
haven't checked their work carefully.

Actually, I find it amazing that someone with a Ph.D. in physics would
spend their time playing around with DDRRs. You have to accept that
because I too have a Ph.D. in physics :-).

73 Kevin [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:10 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Casey)
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:14:40 GMT
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I have a DDRR antenna in the attic tucked under the roof next to the
chimney ("dead" space between chimney and gutter under roof), and
it seems to work pretty well.  It's a manufactured magmount intended
for mobile service.  it's sitting on a 19' rackmount steel panet that
is normally about 18 inches tall.  Oh, yea, it's for 2 meters.

I don't remember who made this antenna.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:11 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 00:11:36 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>, Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
writes:

>This seems to be the key issue here Tom.  How do you evaluate
>radiation efficiency,

There are simple ways of evaluating things that reduce errors and provide
more conclusive data. When someone has time to do all sorts of low
accuracy tests and write several articles, surely he has time to do a
meaningful test and answer a few questions about the methods he used.

A good way is to install a simple well known reference antenna in a clear
area, and do FS measurements of some form. It isn't all that complicated.

> and why should disks be a similar
>substitute?

All the "non-radiating"(hopefully) transmission line at the top does is
load the antenna. The goal is to provide a low impedance load for the
section of the antenna that radiates, so current can be made to flow
uniformly throughout the entire radiating area.

If a large hat is used, current quickly disperses in the hat and I^2 R
losses decrease. That's why a large hat is the most efficient way to load
a radiator. Since current (charges) move uniformly away from the antennas
connection point at the center, radiation from the hat cancels. That
decreases radiation losses. The hat thus offers a very low loss loading
impedance, allowing large amounts of current to flow unopposed in the
short radiator.

Any move away from this decreases efficiency. A folded over top loading
conductor (like the DDRR) is a slight move away from ideal, and the
greatest move would be base loading. There are many things in between. I
see no reason to get excited about wild claims poorer loading schemes are
something special. I don't consider a very short top loaded vertical to be
an "efficient radiator", do you?

When I hear the claim a specially constructed DDRR over a 1/2 mile copper
ground screen one works well, it's easy to understand. I'll buy that. It's
the next thing down the line from ideal for a given height.

When I hear a claim saying a DDRR beat or tied a near full-size beam,
that's just plain silly. Perhaps the beam was pointed the wrong way.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:12 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR--Results?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:24:33 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hi Madjid,

In article <[e-mail]>, Madjid <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>Disagree, a short thick vertical with a hat or two hats center fed will
>almost certainly radiate effectively. But the field around that type
>of antenna is Highly "Electric" and losses in the ground will be higher.
>Remember? Losses are mainly Dielectric (I think we desagree on that
>too!).

We do disagree on the mechanics of ground loss, at least on frequencies
where skin depth is more than a few feet.

I'm interested in why you would say the DDRR has less fringing electric
field, and a hat vertical does. I find just the opposite is true. Could
you expand on that, or did it come from Boyer?

>> Losses will increase by a factor of two when compared to the perfect
>> groundplane case. But that may be better than a poor groundplane. In
any
>> event, if DDRR rings are replaced with disks the radiation efficiency
>> remains the same. So the antenna is understandable in this
configuration.
>
>I am not following you on that factor 2. ..--..

Because now instead of a perfect lossless ground as the other "half" of
the antenna, we have added the resistive dissipation of another identical
antenna. I assume of course the aperture of the radiating area remains the
same. If we double the linear physical size of the radiating aperture than
all bets are off, because loss resistance doubles while radiation
resistance quadruples (when normalized to one point in the system).

To keep a comparison fair, we can't change linear physical aperture.

>> I find that impossible to believe, unless the tribander was very poor.
>> Even if the DDRR antenna was 100% efficient, it has less directivity
than
>> a dipole. Witout directivity, it can have no gain.

>> From your original post, I gathered the claim was made a DDRR would
beat
>> larger full size antennas. of course, that is a claim we both have
>> problems with, as you pointed out.
>
>Negatif! The only claim in Boyer's article is that it performs more
>efficiently than a full size quarter wave vertical. Boyer made
>comparisons on his more than ideal setup (collapsing the vertical,
>shorting the DDRR) and claimed that he measured that the DDRR
>performed better. I will definitly say yes in reception, and most
>Hams who went to Tony's place were really surprised by the quality
>of reception. He definitly can hear very well, very weak stations
>that very few people copy, but on transmission Hmmm...

Then we agree on transmission.We both say Hmmmmm. I would go one step
further and say Boyer has gone beyond exaggeration with that claim.

 Factually we both know a DDRR can be no better than a 1/4 wl if both are
perfect, and an 70-98% eff 1/4 wl is much easier to optimize and constuct
than a DDRR.

Since I have spent most of my life working with low noise receiving
antennas, I'd say bunk to the claims the DDRR is better for receiving
UNLESS the problem is near field coupling. In that case, the noise source
must be within the induction field coupling distance of the array. With a
physically small antenna, that is pretty close.

>> I can work VK longpath from my mobile with a conventional hat loaded
>> vertical on 75, and I have worked VK shortpath on 160 also. That
antenna
>> is 1% efficient on 160 (measured and calculated data), and perhaps 15%
on
>> 75 (calculated). We have to be careful using over the air data.
>
>This can be done sometimes, but it can't be done all the time.

No, I can't do it during the day time, hi. But I can do it any time the
band is open for most other stations.

>just a last resort, an ersatz of antenna. Real antennas
>belong in the air....

Yes, we agree. I also use "real antennas" for transmitting.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:14 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Effect of power lines near SWR antenna??
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 00:04:35 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 40
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <54n84q$[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes
>Hello-
>
>The bug has bit me (a friend gave me a Realistic DX-300!),  and I want to
>hang a small horizontal wire antenna in my yard;  I will probably use an
>"antenna tuner" to optimize it as I am limited in space.  My problem is,
>the best (and only) place to put it is from a tree near the road to my
>roof,  and on the other side of the tree from the antenna are poles with
>power lines!  The free (?) end of the antenna will be about 10-14 feet
>from the lines.  Is it worth putting up the antenna?  I like to listen to
>Deutsche Welle on the 41 and 39 meter bands to practice my German and my
>fiancee likes to hear a little of her native tongue,  too.  Thanks in
>advance for any advice!
>
>Rocky Warren
Don't put any antenna where , if it breaks it can blow across power
lines.  Minimum safe distance will be twice the length of the antenna
from the power line to it's nearest fixing point.
Suggest use of a short verticle antenna as signal levels and noise
levels are high at these freq. A larger antenna will only increase
signal and noise together and will have no effect on the signal:noise
ratio, it may also cause overloading of your receiver and cause a
deterioration of performance.
I recommend the following solution:
9 foot fibreglass CB whip and base, mounted as high as possible, fed to
a ferrite balun with a 5(or 10):1 step down to feed low loss coax up to
a maximum of about a 100 feet directly to the receiver.  Ground the
sheath of the coax external to the building withan earth spike to
prevent static build-up and reduce local noise.  Antennas of this design
are available commercially  in the UK  and Germany and can probably
exported to your country by Communication Aerials, Westbury, England.
Hope this helps
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband Tim who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (cleve e massey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: feedline question
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:57:40 -0600
Organization: INTERNET AMERICA
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal09-24.ppp.iadfw.net

At last I can put up outside antennas...now that means a G5RV since I need
an all purpose antenna...and since the feedline is of the coax variety...

This is the $64,000 question...what is the lowest loss, smallest diameter
coax???  I will probably run no more than 50 watts on HF...and the run
will be less than 100 feet.

Any help would be appreciated.

Pse e-mail me direct!!!

cleve...wd5bor


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:15 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: feedline question
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:42:04 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
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cleve e massey wrote:
> ...what is the lowest loss, smallest diameter coax???

Hi Cleve, taking everything into consideration, RG8X is hard to beat.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:16 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: feedline question
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 17:58:32 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 31
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>cleve e massey wrote:
>> ...what is the lowest loss, smallest diameter coax???
>
>Hi Cleve, taking everything into consideration, RG8X is hard to beat.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

Cecil's trades are different than mine. I measured some RG8X and found only
a very slight improvement in loss over RG-58. RG8X is a good deal heavier,
as well as larger, so I chose RG-58 for use on the higher HF bands on Field
Day. (I generally backpack in, so weight and size are major
considerations.) I haven't yet found a good use for the RG8X. Small
diameter and low loss are mutually antagonistic requirements. The following
is true at frequencies up through VHF: For a given diameter, you get the
lowest loss by having the lowest density dielectric (highest velocity
factor). This allows the center conductor to be as large as possible for a
given impedance and cable diameter. Because the loss is primarily due to
the center conductor resistance at HF and VHF, a larger conductor means
lower loss. If you want lower loss than you can get with the lowest density
dielectric possible, the only solution is to use a larger diameter cable.

I've found the published velocity factors for foamed-dielectric cables to
be optimistic -- higher than reality. They also vary a lot. So don't depend
on this, or published loss specs, to determine the loss of this kind of
cable. (You might find RG8X which is better than the stuff I got.) Belden
9913's trick is a dielectric that's largely air, allowing a relatively
large center conductor.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:17 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 15 Nov 1996 15:43:49 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Date: 15 Nov 1996 13:47:16 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

>If I recall correctly, Chip's claim was that the MI2 would provide
>superior gain over other configurations occupying the same area--and he
>used a square loop loaded at one point, with straight sides, and
occupying
>the same area, as a reference.

Since I have no dimensions, it is impossible to replicate the MI2 antenna.
I
need to know the outer perimeter dimensions.

For example: Gain claimed for the MI2 appears the same as a basic dipole,
and theory indicates any properly designed antenna of the same dimensions
should have equal or greater FS, but I don't know what the dimensional
limitations are. I can't find anything in the articles that tells me that
information.

Does anyone have dimensions, or is this another CTHA-like mystery?
73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:18 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 14 Nov 1996 20:34:21 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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At the suggestion of others, I decided to build a fractal loop for
testing. I found one described as a MI-2 Minkowski fractal quad, but the
article gives no dimensions.

Does anyone know the dimensions of this antenna?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:19 1996
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From: Charles Rauch <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 14 Nov 1996 22:28:52 GMT
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Test



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:20 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 15 Nov 1996 13:47:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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As I recall, when I built a fractal dipole awhile back, Chip said the
precise formation of the squares were not extremely critical.  He advised
me to simply make my antenna look like the line art.  When I did this with
the dipole, it performed about as advertized--bandwidth was about 1.7%,
and I got a fairly good match to the feedpoint using a 4:1 balun.  I
imagine you could do the same thing for the "quad" version.  I couldn't
build it to a given frequency with the data given--I had to make the
antenna and then do all my tests at the frequency where it resonated.

If I recall correctly, Chip's claim was that the MI2 would provide
superior gain over other configurations occupying the same area--and he
used a square loop loaded at one point, with straight sides, and occupying
the same area, as a reference.

As an exercise, I'd like to try some other configurations occupying the
same size box as a MI2--just to see what is really possible using a more
traditional approach--specifically taking voltage and current distribution
into account.  Unfortunately, being in the stone age up here, I don't have
MiniNEC.  Any volunteers?

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.iamerica.net!news
From: [e-mail] (dwh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: FS: KMA LOG PERIODIC ANTENNA'S 50-1300 MHZ.
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:36:16 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.173.249.41
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31392 rec.radio.swap:94644 rec.radio.amateur.misc:117963

For Sale,

  NOW YOU CAN HAVE AN AFFORDABLE ANTENNA FOR VHF/UHF THAT COVERS ALL
OF THE FREQUENCIES BETWEEN 50 MHZ AND 1300 MHZ.

  The KMA 4113 is a Log Periodic Antenna that covers all the VHF and
UHF frequencies listed above.  The antenna is made of high quality
aircraft aluminum and stainless steel.  The antenna has 30 elements
and gives you 10 dbd of gain on the amateur bands.   Also, the
front/back ratio is 30db.

  These are new commercially made antenna's with the Amateur in mind.
The antenna performs very well and can be mounted on a pushup pole or
tower.

  If you are in the market for a ALL BAND antenna, drop me a email.
For this week only the price is $167 + shipping.  The Tennadyne T-31
costs $240 and the Create costs $309.  The KMA 4113 is a higher
quality antenna at a price with the Ham in mind.   Email me for
additional information.

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news1.iamerica.net!news
From: [e-mail] (dwh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: FS: KMA LOG PERIODIC ANTENNA'S 50-1300 MHZ.
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:33:03 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.173.249.32
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31560 rec.radio.swap:95136 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118183

For Sale,

  NOW YOU CAN HAVE AN AFFORDABLE ANTENNA FOR VHF/UHF THAT COVERS ALL
OF THE FREQUENCIES BETWEEN 50 MHZ AND 1300 MHZ.

  The KMA 4113 is a Log Periodic Antenna that covers all the VHF and
UHF frequencies listed above.  The antenna is made of high quality
aircraft aluminum and stainless steel.  The antenna has 30 elements
and gives you 10 dbd of gain on the amateur bands.   Also, the
front/back ratio is 30db.

  These are new commercially made antenna's with the Amateur in mind.
The antenna performs very well and can be mounted on a pushup pole or
tower.

  If you are in the market for a ALL BAND antenna, drop me a email.
For this week only the price is $167 + shipping.  The Tennadyne T-31
costs $240 and the Create costs $309.  The KMA 4113 is a higher
quality antenna at a price with the Ham in mind.   Email me for
additional information.

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news1.iamerica.net!news
From: [e-mail] (dwh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS: TENNADYNE T-31 50MHZ-1300 MHZ ANTENNA-SOLD
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:26:33 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.173.249.41
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

Sorry everyone, it's sold.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Bob Kozlarek)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: Timewave DSP-59+
Date: 10 Nov 1996 03:47:54 GMT
Organization: WA2SQQ
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <563j9a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.147.154.84
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit)

Just upgraded my HF station and the new rig has an integrated DSP filter.
Therefor - FOR SALE: Timewave DSP-59+ 6 months old, in immaculate condition.
$200 FIRM and that includes UPS shipping in the U.S.

Reply via E mail

No hagglers - No Trades

Bob, WA2SQQ



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:25 1996
From: [e-mail] (Dr. Gar Won Ko)
Subject: FS: Tower, Antennas, Accessories
Date: 8 Nov 96 20:21:30 -0800
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 6

I have FOR SALE a complete ham station including Rohn 25G tower(40
ft.), Cushcraft A4S - quad band beam with the A744 (40 meter) add-on.
Plus many other accessories and ham radio equipment.  Total
liquidation of everything!

Reply:  Dr. Gar Won Ko  ([e-mail])


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Marc Illsley Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS: Tower, Antennas, Accessories
Date: 09 Nov 1996 15:00:27 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfimic.fc.hp.com
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 8 Nov 96 20:21:30 -0800

>>>>> "Gar" == Gar Won Ko <[e-mail]> writes:
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dr. Gar Won Ko) write
s:


    Gar> I have FOR SALE a complete ham station including Rohn 25G
    Gar> tower(40 ft.), Cushcraft A4S - quad band beam with the A744
    Gar> (40 meter) add-on.  Plus many other accessories and ham radio
    Gar> equipment.  Total liquidation of everything!

    Gar> Reply: Dr. Gar Won Ko ([e-mail])

Where, pray tell, are you located?  How much, pray tell, are you
asking the the pieces and the whole kit?  What are the other
accessories?

I bet you already knew all those answers and could have posted them
the first time, yes?

--
Marc Illsley Clarke, [e-mail], KB0YDL, KB0YDL@N0MPI.#NECO.CO.USA.NOAM
4857 North Sheridan Avenue, Loveland, Colorado 80538-1767 USA
(Representing solely myself, I am emphatically NOT a representative of
any employer, club, group, church, league, organization, or government!)




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.mnsinc.com!usenet
From: "Samuel S. Yates" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS: Tower, Antennas, Accessories
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:52:30 -0500
Organization: Monumental Network Systems
Lines: 9
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab4n.mnsinc.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
To: "Dr. Gar Won Ko" <[e-mail]>

Dr. Gar Won Ko wrote:
>
> I have FOR SALE a complete ham station including Rohn 25G tower(40
> ft.), Cushcraft A4S - quad band beam with the A744 (40 meter) add-on.
> Plus many other accessories and ham radio equipment.  Total
> liquidation of everything!
>
> Reply:  Dr. Gar Won Ko  ([e-mail])
I am interested in the tower and antenna. How much $$ and where are you?


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 21:53:35 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.208.228
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31318 triangle.radio:2204

David A. Cooley wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
>
> >
> > altavoz: Yes , it's very high . Dave obviously means 2 .5wl elements
> > with a voltage inverter ( trap,tank,hairpin, colinear stub etc).
> >
> > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
>
> No, it's a single element with a gamma match... Here's a basic ascii
> drawing...
>                  ____
>                      |
>                      | <--- 10 ft 1/2" dia electrical conduit
>                      |
>                      |
>                  A   |
>                      |_|____
>                      | |
>                      | | <----- Gamma Match... 1/8" dia brazing rod
>                      | |   C
>                  ____| |____
>                      |
>                      |
>                   B  |
>                      |
>                 ____ |
>                     /|\
>                    / | \
>               D   /  |  \ <-----4 ground radials of 1/8" brazing rod
>                  /   |   \
>             ____/    |    \
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>                      |
>
> E is distance between gamma match and conduit.
>
> The Gamma Match is 19.75" long... Exactly 1" from the top of the gamma
> match, there is a piece of wire that connects it straight across to the
> conduit.  The RG-58 runs INSIDE the conduit from the bottom... Exactly
> 40.5" from the top it comes out a 3/8" dia hole in the side of the
> conduit... the braid is grounded to the conduit at that point, and the
> center conductor goes to the bottom of the gamma match.  The gamma match
> is EXACTLY 1" from the conduit and parallel to it.  The ground radials
> attach to the conduit 19.25" below the feed point and are 19.4" long.
> The conduit can be an extension of the mast, and can be grounded.
> This antenna is tuned for 145MHZ... for other freq's, the following
> equations apply:
>
> A = 5872/f-MHZ
> B = 2790/f-MHZ
> C = 2865/f-MHZ
> D = 2810/f-MHZ
> E = 146/f-MHZ
>
> The top and bottom of the gamma match are supported with a 1" plastic
> pipe tee in half through the center tube... the hole of one end slips
> over the conduit and is held in place with a machine screw, the gamma
> match goes through a small hole drilled in the appropriate place in the
> end that protrudes away from the conduit.
>
> Later,
> Dave
>
> --
> ========================================================================> Da
vid Cooley                AKA N5XMT                 [e-mail]
> http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
> Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
> ========================================================================
Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
You got a great sense of humor .

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:29 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: "David A. Cooley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:35:23 -0500
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: customs223.ipass.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
To: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31397 triangle.radio:2206

altavoz wrote:
> > ========================================================================
> Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
> the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
> You got a great sense of humor .
>
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________


If you don't have anything constructive to contribute then go the hell
away.
You're an obnoxious ass that obviously has a problem with with
insecurity, flaming and razzing others to make your self feel better.
An obvious piece of evidence that worldnet is no better than AOL at
keeping jerks off the internet.


--
========================================================================
David Cooley                AKA N5XMT                 [e-mail]
http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:19:53 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.206.86
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)
To: [e-mail]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31400 triangle.radio:2207

David A. Cooley wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> > > ========================================================================
> > Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
> > the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
> > You got a great sense of humor .
> >
> > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
>
> If you don't have anything constructive to contribute then go the hell
> away.
> You're an obnoxious ass that obviously has a problem with with
> insecurity, flaming and razzing others to make your self feel better.
> An obvious piece of evidence that worldnet is no better than AOL at
> keeping jerks off the internet.
>

> David Cooley                AKA N5XMT


altavoz: I proved you wrong so you have to throw a tantrum,
you little baby .

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (James Warren Price)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Date: 11 Nov 1996 20:32:35 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <5682h3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: n00048-118dan.unity.ncsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31444 triangle.radio:2210

altavoz ([e-mail]) wrote:
:> ========================================================================
:Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
:the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
:You got a great sense of humor .

Just how much loss is there at VHF for the length of RG-58 described
here?  I guess altavoz really does have a sense of humor.

Jim N3QYE


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!news.abs.net!aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:51:03 -0800
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: customs23.ipass.net
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31451 triangle.radio:2211

altavoz wrote:
> > > Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
> > > the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
> > > You got a great sense of humor .

> altavoz: I proved you wrong so you have to throw a tantrum,
> you little baby .

Dude, there are many commercially available antennas that use rg-58
_inside_ of them. He didn't say to run rg-58 down the street to your
treehouse in the woods. Geesh...

--
Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
[e-mail]

http://www.ipass.net/~hockaday/
http://www.ipass.net/~wb4iuy/
http://www.ipass.net/~teara/
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3349/
http://www.RTPnet.org/~fcarc/
http://www.RTPnet.org/~rdrc/


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:33 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: "David A. Cooley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:26:40 -0500
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5682h3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: customs24.ipass.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31514 triangle.radio:2214

altavoz wrote:
>
> What do you save , $.10 a foot ?  Whats the objective , to purposely
> loose power ? To reduce SWR the wrong way ?
>
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________

It's not to save money... Try snaking RG-8 through the center of 1/2"
dia EMT conduit and bringing it out a 3/8" hole in the side...  At the
time the article was written, RG-8X wasn't widely available, and the
.24dB losses from the RG58 aren't bad enough to worry about.
Later,
Dave


--
========================================================================
David Cooley N5XMT                  Packet: N5XMT@W4RAL.#RTP.NC.USA.NOAM
Internet: [e-mail]    And Web: http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:34 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: "David A. Cooley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:23:55 -0500
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: customs24.ipass.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31515 triangle.radio:2215

altavoz wrote:
>
> You're not serious !! RG58 at 2m !!  6 db / 100'  ha ha ha ha
> now thats a joke !   50' and you've lost half your signal !
>
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________

Well,
Since they only have you using approximately 4ft of RG-58, that's .24dB
signal loss... gee, I won't be able to talk 50 feet with those losses.
At the end of the 4 foot section of RG-58, there is a PL-259, a barrell,
then 50' of RG-8 going to the radio... What am I supposed to use for 5
watts on 2 meters, inch and a half hard line?
Later,
Dave



--
========================================================================
David Cooley N5XMT                  Packet: N5XMT@W4RAL.#RTP.NC.USA.NOAM
Internet: [e-mail]    And Web: http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:35 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:36:18 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.208.126
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To: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31516 triangle.radio:2216

Dave Hockaday wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> > > > Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
> > > > the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
> > > > You got a great sense of humor .
>
> > altavoz: I proved you wrong so you have to throw a tantrum,
> > you little baby .
>
> Dude, there are many commercially available antennas that use rg-58
> _inside_ of them. He didn't say to run rg-58 down the street to your
> treehouse in the woods. Geesh...
>
> --
> Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
> [e-mail]


You're not serious !! RG58 at 2m !!  6 db / 100'  ha ha ha ha
now thats a joke !   50' and you've lost half your signal !

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:35 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:39:10 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 18
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To: James Warren Price <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31529 triangle.radio:2217

James Warren Price wrote:
>
> altavoz ([e-mail]) wrote:
> :> ========================================================================
> :Tongue in cheek obviously ! I especially like the joke about
> :the RG58 at 2 meters . ha ha ha ha
> :You got a great sense of humor .
>
> Just how much loss is there at VHF for the length of RG-58 described
> here?  I guess altavoz really does have a sense of humor.
>
> Jim N3QYE


What do you save , $.10 a foot ?  Whats the objective , to purposely
loose power ? To reduce SWR the wrong way ?

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Michael T. Hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,ipass.ham-radio,triangle.radio
Subject: Re: full wave vertical for 2m
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:37:33 -0500
Organization: Nando.net Public Access
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.6b4
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31565 triangle.radio:2220

I have the ultimate answer...since the losses in the rg-58 are so
horendous.........you should.....fight the city or county where you
live to erect a large monopole in your yard, dig a large trench from
your house to the pole, bury 12" pvc pipe from your house to the pole,
core drill thru the floors of your house for the 3" Air Heliax cable
to run thru (from your custom designed shack on the top floor) and then
attach at the end one of those swedish or german (whatever) brand of
stainless steel antennas at the top.....hell the expense was worth it
to overcome that .24db of loss right? get real....at least the guy
didn't suggest making the antenna with RG-174.....I thought ham radio
was still supposed to be a little home brew every now and then......

Mike

--
Mike - Raleigh, NC USA

Opinions expressed herein are my own and do not in any way
represent those of my employer.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:38 1996
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From: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tower Safety
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:15:50 -0600
Organization: ABC Radio Network Engineering - Dallas
Lines: 43
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote:
>
> >its more famous pictures.  One of them was of a 1500 ft.
> >tower on its way down with three fellows clinging to
> >the side of it at about 1000 ft.  The camera caught the
> >scene when the tower was at 45 degrees.
>
> >With no recourse for those workers when an accident occurs
> >at such heights, shouldn't they be carrying those parachute
> >backpacks you see stunt artists use for directed landings?
>
> When I first heard about the recent fall of that tower in Texas, I
> wondered why they don't wear chutes too. Modern parachutes are not
> nearly as large and cumbersome to wear as they were years ago, and
> 1000 to 1500 ft. is plenty high enough to deploy the chute. Does
> anyone know why they are not used on these tall towers?
> 73,
> Butch N2YMJ

The height may not be enough (they may not e at the 1000-1500ft level
when something happens) and when the tower falls, toooo many things like
the guys wires, steel falling, would not make using a parachute feasible
since it is likely they would get caught by flying debris and get killed
no matter what....

BTW, the latest theory on the tower collaspe is the gin pole got caught
in the tower as it was being raised (likely the wind shoved it into the
tower itself).. the gin pole then leveraged against the tower as the
winch continued to pull on it and caused a guy wire to snap (either cut
it directly or pulled something apart)....High winds are likely the
cause of the gin pole getting into the tower...

WATCH THE WIND when working on any tower......whats on the gorund is NOT
what is on the tower....the wind up there constantly blows (usually) and
has NO breaks in it like the ground clutter causes...

73
Chris
WB5ITT

ABC Radio Engineer - Dallas


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:39 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tower Safety
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:18:25 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <5652p1$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup549.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]
> writes:
>[e-mail] wrote:

>> When I first heard about the recent fall of that tower in Texas, I
>> wondered why they don't wear chutes too. Modern parachutes are not
>> nearly as large and cumbersome to wear as they were years ago, and
>> 1000 to 1500 ft. is plenty high enough to deploy the chute. Does
>> anyone know why they are not used on these tall towers?
>> 73,
>> Butch N2YMJ
>
>The height may not be enough (they may not e at the 1000-1500ft level
>when something happens) and when the tower falls, toooo many things like
>the guys wires, steel falling, would not make using a parachute feasible
>since it is likely they would get caught by flying debris and get killed
>no matter what....
>
>BTW, the latest theory on the tower collaspe is the gin pole got caught
>in the tower as it was being raised (likely the wind shoved it into the
>tower itself).. the gin pole then leveraged against the tower as the
>winch continued to pull on it and caused a guy wire to snap (either cut
>it directly or pulled something apart)....High winds are likely the
>cause of the gin pole getting into the tower...
>
>WATCH THE WIND when working on any tower......whats on the gorund is NOT
>what is on the tower....the wind up there constantly blows (usually) and
>has NO breaks in it like the ground clutter causes...
>
>73
>Chris
>WB5ITT
>
>ABC Radio Engineer - Dallas

Well hello Chris!  And guess what, you are so right..  I can testify to that o
ne
from experience out there on Cedar Hill!  Was with the Texas A&M Met crew
that did the first computer modeling of the atmosphere in real-time way back
in the early days.  That study was done at several sites.  First they got it
working out in the field where the current Aggie Bonfire is being built now.

Then they took it to Cedar Hill when there was only the one big 1500 footer
up there.  We had a 150 footer on the same plot adjacent to the big one,
another 150 footer about ten miles east of it on the ridge and a stash of
about forty 60 footers all around them equipped with stacks of anerometers,
vanes and wet/dry bulb thermistors.

Eventually, the project went on to White Sands, New Mexico, where it
finished up, I think.

We plotted just what you are saying every 20 feet up the towers, and in the
cases of the two 150 footers, carried the data real-time into a computer
driven switching and storage system I helped build that was stashed inside
two old converted 18-wheeler dry vans that were parked next to the towers
and cabled to all of it with MILES of shielded cables et. al.

There was one of these military comm huts with the old single 4-400A
digital 300khz-20Mhz synthesized RTTY rigs in it, the one that had a pair
of the the digitally tuned 390's in them at each site that was *intended* to
have been used in sending the data back to A&M from Dallas on an unattended
basis, but that idea never got off the ground.   pun intended...

You can still see (last time I looked!) one of the huts that was to have been
this end of the link, decaying out adjacent to the TAMU CH-28 TV stalk
out in Hensel park under the TAMU Oceanography Dept rotating Collins
log periodic they use for the world-wide HF SSB research link I got them
to install.  I think the hut now has the Collins HF SSB point-to-point gear
inside it, rather than the ANGRC-9 and R390's that were originally in it.

It never ceased to amaze me that the air currents around the towers varied
so dramatically in direction and speed at the same time!   You could look
up the big one and see ALL kinds of variations much of the time.

Texas University had the job of measuring all that going up by stages on the
big 1500 footer.  I never got to go up it (elevator ride, not climbed..)

All I got to do was watch VERY carefully above me all the time and DUCK...
at certain times of the year!

During the spring after the ice storms, you had to be REAL careful working
around the big ones.   Ice would form on the thing, guy wires and all.  As
the temp would warm up and it would begin to melt, huge chunks of the
stuff would begin to fall off and come hurtling down.   It was big enough
pieces and hard enough that I think you could have got killed if you ever
got hit by some of them...

I've observed that the wind can carry that stuff a LONG way from where it
leaves a wire or the tower surfaces!

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:40 1996
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From: AC6V <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FYI: 400 Ham Radio Links
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 09:22:54 -0800
Organization: Author
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: "AC6V@ac6v"@popd.ix.netcom.com
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U)

FEATURING 40 PAGES AND OVER 400 LINKS TO DX AND HAM RADIO

Includes links to Antenna and Tower Mfgrs and over 100 Mfgrs and Sales
Links
--
AC6V DX Reference Page at:  http://www.netcom.com/~ac6v/index.html


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:41 1996
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From: Les Blades <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: GAP Verticals
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:28:52 -0800
Organization: SoVerNet, Inc.
Lines: 18
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Hi and tnx for taking the time to read this request.

I have heard some very good things about the GAP vertical
antennas.  I am also contemplating buying one, say the TITAN
but would like to get a littel feedback from some of you
hams that have personal experience with them.  SO how do
they work?  How do they compare to say a 2 el yagi?  I know
its not a fair question, well I have a 6 element tribander
which I would like to put back up, but am going to wait at
least until spring time to do that.  I live in COLD Vermont
and since I just moved to this town, most of my antennas are
down.  I need something that works quite well for the winter
and possibly beyond.  If this GAP works as well as claimed
I may never bother to put the tower and beam up!

Anyway, any comments would be appreciated.

Les (W1UT)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Kapitan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Verticals
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:05:30 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-206-170-212-33.lsan03.pacbell.net

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

> Anyway, any comments would be appreciated.
>
> Les (W1UT)

GAP Eagle DX = big dummy load

Mike
KM6WB


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:43 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Verticals
Date: 12 Nov 1996 19:07:42 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 102
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <56be1u$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: csm1-56.up.net

In article <[e-mail]>, Les says...
>
>Hi and tnx for taking the time to read this request.
>
>I have heard some very good things about the GAP vertical
>antennas.  I am also contemplating buying one, say the TITAN
>but would like to get a littel feedback from some of you
>hams that have personal experience with them.  SO how do
>they work?  How do they compare to say a 2 el yagi?  I know
>its not a fair question, well I have a 6 element tribander
>which I would like to put back up, but am going to wait at
>least until spring time to do that.  I live in COLD Vermont
>and since I just moved to this town, most of my antennas are
>down.  I need something that works quite well for the winter
>and possibly beyond.  If this GAP works as well as claimed
>I may never bother to put the tower and beam up!
>
>Anyway, any comments would be appreciated.
>
>Les (W1UT)


  Les, Here is a personal experience in a climate equal or more
severe than yours.

   I made the mistake of purchasing the Titan, after seeing it at the Dayton,
94 hamfest. I mounted it on a the roof of a single story wood frame building
with the counterpoise? 22 ft. above ground, 36" above the peak of the roof.
I used my FT-890, the Titan switched direct, and the 80m dipole, straight,
at 33ft with balanced feed switched through an MFJ-949B tuner, for the
following observations:

  Only on 40m did it perform better than my 80m dipole at 33ft, at low angles,

< 10 degrees, in most directions.  40m at >10 degrees it was consistently down

in all directions except a small sector off the ends of the dipole, where it
was 1 to 2 S units better. On 30m it was down by 2 S units,  compared to the
dipole in the directions of least difference between the two antennas. On 7,
14, 18, 21, 24 and 28 mhz it was down > 1/2 S unit at all az and el angles
with very few exceptions. On 80m the performance was down 1 to 2 S units, in
general, but given the antenna's space requirements and physical length, I
consider its performance acceptable.

   I used an MFJ-202 noise bridge to get an idea of ant Q, resonance and band
width. On 30m the resonance was 400khz high. On the other bands, it was
sufficiently close that operating environment/assembly, may have been
responsible for the errors noted. The Q was quite high and narrow on the high
end of 80m, exactly where it should have been for the capacitor used and
required on that band. As a general observation the other bands had an
antenna Q quite low and broad, which troubled me, bringing to mind the
characteristics of a dummy load.

  In the Fall of 94, a front passed through with winds gusting 50 to 60 mph
for a full day. The antenna was bent over some 20 degrees in a gentle curve
in the area a few feet above the "counterpoise". The decoupling/tuning rods
were all askew because of the twisting force generated when the antenna
flexes in the wind. I then removed the antenna from the roof, disassembled
it, straightened it, reassembled it and mounted it on a mast in the backyard
with the counterpoise 8 ft off the ground. I guyed it with 125 lb test nylon
net twine, in 90 degree directions just above the "gap". No
mechanical problems, since.

   No noticeable difference in performance, of any consequence, was noted in
its new location.

   During the Summer of 95, a friend brought over, at my request, a high
rent, new, Hewlett Packard spectrum analyzer and tracking generator, with
which we swept the antenna from 3 to 30 mhz. The results were very
consistent with what I had determined with the noise generator, and in
general, confirmed my suspicions that the antenna did have bandwidth,
resonance and Q characteristics that came dangerously close, on most bands,
to emulating those of a dummy load.

   No signal checks were made in transmit because I can in no way determine
the validity of a "signal report".

   I touched bases with GAP personnel on 3 occasions, over a period of the
first 18 months, and was in general, informed that my observations were
probably a consequence of the operating environment.

   I submit that the same characteristics exhibited by the antenna at 2
different locations is probably a consequence of design, barring some subtle
assembly mistake I made, assembling the antenna twice, with meticulous care,
by the book. I accept that my empirical methods may not hold up under the
scrutiny of perfectionists. I have no doubt of the general differences in
operating characteristics of the 2 antennas compared. I have no doubt about
the general antenna characteristics observed with the noise bridge and
spectrum analyzer. I have made my way through life as a generally competent
electronics technician who thinks about what he does, and despises wild a--
guesses.

   For the better part of the last 15 months, I have been using it with a Come
t
duplexer as an BCB/SW antenna for listening only, and as a 2 meter antenna for

local work. SWR on 146 is 1.6:1.

   Yes, I have buyer's remorse.  &:-(

                                      Pete, wa4hei







From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:44 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.socketis.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Tom Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Verticals
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:01:22 GMT
Organization: SOCKET Internet Services INN Site
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56be1u$[e-mail]> <56djtr$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

On 13 Nov 1996 23:00:11 GMT, [e-mail](Roderick Hart)
wrote:

>This is very interesting. I have had my Gap Titan for two years now and
>I really can't say anything bad about it. It is used everyday of the
>week with a Yaesu 757GX on my Army Mars hf/vhf gateway packet system.
>My location is the pits. I have trees, 50 feet or higher, on all sides
>and the antenna is ground mounted. The comparison antennasfor me are my
>g5rv and a windom strung up within the trees.

>The Gap is very quiet and seems to be effective. Maybe all my antennas
>are bad. If that is the case, the Gap is the best of the bad as far as
>I am concerned.

Sometimes we tend to form opinions of how your antennas work, based
upon lack of information.  Case in point...

A couple decades ago, I had a vertical antenna, with only three
radials,  which I though worked like a champ because I could work
pretty much everything I could hear.

Then I put up a 20M dipole at about 40'....

Compared to the dipole, the vertical with minimal radials was a real
dog... It was consistently 1 to 2 S-units below what I was hearing
(and working) with the dipole.

So I installed another 15 radials beneath the vertical, and its
performance came up to compete with the dipole under certain
conditions, generally better on long-haul DX.

Then I switched to a tribander, and all bets were off after that.

What I'm getting at is that, if we have little against which to
compare the performance of our antenna systems, we will almost always
think it's working great for us.  As they say, "even a blind hog finds
an acorn once in a while".

I'm not saying that the GAP is a bad antenna, I'll let others do that,
since I've never used one for any length of time.  But just about ANY
real (subjective) evaluation of an antenna must be done while
comparing it against something of a known quantity.  Today, I'd be
recommending verticals with only three radials to all me friends, had
I not seen how they perform when they have "real" (if even still
somewhat under-installed) RF ground systems.

73 - Tom Hammond   [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:47 1996
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From: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GE Mastr II info needed!!
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 08:03:50 -0600
Organization: ABC Radio Network Engineering - Dallas
Lines: 30
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References: <[e-mail]>
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Mike Hughes wrote:
>
> Hi all I just purchased some Mastr II's on High Band 154 MHZ. Would like
> to make a repeater out of one of them. 146.235/835 MHZ Want some of them
> for Voting receiver systems. And some for mobile use.
> Does any one have any experience converting these radios? Can you give me
> the conversion proceedure and what wires hook where, etc.? Also has any
> one put a synthesizer on one before? Any help would be appreciated.
>

Yes, MSTR IIs are easy to make into rptr...You need to cut a diode out in
the PTT ckt so the rcvr stays unmuted when the TX is keyed and then
jumper a xstr in the RX OSC Control ckt (can be done on the front of the
board where it plugs into the system board...) so the RX ctal osc is
powered all the time by 12v...thats it!!! add a second antenna connector
and hook it to the rcvr...leave the TX as is...

Wire audio to the controller (mic to TX out, RX in to Vol SQ High lead on
radio and use DE_EMPHASIS ckt in controller...!), get COS from CAS lead,
PTT to PTT and its a rptr!

Set power to 50 % MAX of rated output (if its a 100watt radio, set it to
NO MORE than 50 and I would set it lower to 40 to be safe)...the PAs are
NOT rated at 100% duty cycle in mobiles....the Base Station series has
larger heat sinks!

You can put a synthesizer on one...but why???

Chris
WB5ITT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:49 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Goniometer feed for bal line ?
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:18:13 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1996Oct29.130802@axp1>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Jari Jokiniemi
<[e-mail]> writes
>
>Then the thing I have must be a goniometer. Though, it is air wound
>and the diameter is something like 3 or 4 inches. I suppose that could
>be used for transmitting as well.
>--
>Jari Jokiniemi, [e-mail], OH2MPO, OH3BU
>Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, [phone]
If it's that big and unscreened then it is probably quite old.  Dont
smash it , it's probably an antique! ;-)  I'd guess pre-world war 2.
Can you look at a copy of either Wireless Direction Finding by Captain R
Keen of the Marconi Company, published by Wireless World (ILIFFE) 1942,
or The Admiralty Handbook of Wireless Telegraphy Volume 2 Section T 1938
published by HMSO.
Both these contain lots of pictures which may help you identify this
piece of equipment.
Hope this helps.
Mandy
(Typing on behalf of my husband Tim who hates computers
despite being a practising RF Engineer!  I know _nothing_ about RF!!)
Sussex
UK                Please note the NEW ADDRESS!

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:50 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: 9 Nov 1996 00:30:15 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>, Jerry Decker
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Would buying the biggest coil, the longest rod and stinger, and biggest
>cap hat be the best?
>
>

That's a good choice for an antenna. Likely the very best made.

The hat will help as long as you put the hat way up high. Putting the hat
down low on the whip robs current from the whip above the hat, and lowers
efficiency.

A capaci*tance* hat is always up near the top, a capaci*dunce* hat mounts
down low on the whip. :-)

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: 9 Nov 1996 14:57:02 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 8
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Yes; a good antenna.

Mounting is an issue though; I'm sure there are those who know more about
HF car mounts than I on the newsgroup. The mounting will affect your rad
resistnace and hence perhformance.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:52 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 02:45:01 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
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Jerry Decker <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Well, finally gonna join the HF mobile ranks and looking to buy a
>BugCatcher from Henry in Caddo Mills, TX.

>Was wondering what would be the optimum configuration for installing on
>a Ford Explorer. Is anyone in this newsgroup using one on an Explorer?
>What is your configuration. If you had an unlimited budget, what would
>be your optimum configuration?

>Would buying the biggest coil, the longest rod and stinger, and biggest
>cap hat be the best?

>I wanna work 10-160 too.

>Thanks for any input!

>Jerry WR5V

Jeyy,
   You are on the right track.  The Texas Bugcatcher hardware is good
quality, and the overall design of bugcatchers in general are the
lowest loss you can find.
  My recommendation is to first figure out how high the tip of the
antenna can be without hitting bridges, trees, etc.  11 ft is usually
good for highway driving.
    Then determine where you are going to mount it.  The ideal place
is right in the center of the roof, as far as ground loss is
concerned, but due to height restrictions, the antenna will be shorter
up there.  Also, believe it or not, if you mount it on any corner of
your car, there will be some directionality in the direction of the
diagonal corner of the car.
    I recommend putting the base as least three feet off the ground on
the driver's side (so it won't couple to hiway guard rails.  No
kidding, you will see the swr meter move when a truck goes by or when
you drive under low power lines).
    The optimum place for the loading coil is from 1/2 to 2/3 up the
antenna, so a 5ft Hustler mast with a 3 ft stinger (+ 1ft for the
coil) is in the ball park.
    The bugcatcher coils are mounted on an axial Delrin rod, about 1in
in diameter.  Ask Henry for an extra rod, so you can put it in series
above the one in the coil.  This is so when you mount the top hat on
the top of the  top rod, it will be up above the coil by at least one
coil length.  This keeps it out of the field of the coil somewhat.
    You will need the base matching coil, or a capacitor.  I used the
coil, but the cap should be just as good.
    When you get it all assembled, trim the coil so that it has no
shorted or open turns when resonant on the lowest band you operate.
Then solder taps in the resonant positions on the coil for the other
bands.
    As for mechanical mounting, I used a ball mount on the side of the
car near the rear.  I put a 3/4 inch pvc arm coming out of the side of
the roof, with a T on the end.  It came out of the car at as spot
towards the front of the car from the antenna with an elbow so it met
the antenna at a 45 degree angle in a horizontal plane.  The antenna
mast went through the T.  Two monofilament guy lines (60 lb test)
stressed the mast towards the car in the T, one guy going across the
car, and the other going towards the front of the car.  I ran this
arrangement for 3 or four years daily on 40m CW in New England on my
daily 45 mile commute (one way).  I had to replace the guys
occaisionally, but that was all.

Good luck

dudley WA1X/m now /8




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:54 1996
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From: edwin bailen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:22:29 -0600
Organization: Adhesive Media, Inc.
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <563fni$[e-mail]>
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In-Reply-To: <563fni$[e-mail]>

I thought I remembered reading a "shootout" article in CQ (or another
non-QST) mag. that the bugcatchers out performed the screwdrivers on 80
and 160.

The Hustlers may be sub-optimum, but the mast is resonant on 6M, and
(like the screwdriver) you get some degree of band mobility without
leaving your vehicle.

Unfortunately, the Hustler elements are incompatible with the trees on
the cowpaths I drive, so I bought one of Henry's bugcatchers a few months
ago.  Since I only want to work 40 meters and up, Henry was able to help
me put together a rather low-profile design that still works well on the
back of my pickup.  The down side of the low profile design is the loss of
6 meters.  I'll have to put the 6 meter 1/4-wave back with a duplexer.

On the subject of masts, the Texas Bugcatcher masts are an order of
magnitude stronger than the Hustler mast.  They cost a heck of a lot
more, but if you can't brace the Hustler mast just below the coil, it
will fatigue (speaking from experience).

Jerry, have you checked your rig in the Expolrer yet?  Fords are
notorious for hash from the electric fuel pump in the gas tank.  I
haven't followed this newsgroup for a while, but there was mention of a
Ford service bulletin on this problem some time back.

Have fun on the road!

Regards,
Ed - N5KZW


On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Dudley Chapman wrote:

> Jerry Decker <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Well, finally gonna join the HF mobile ranks and looking to buy a
> >BugCatcher from Henry in Caddo Mills, TX.
>
> >Was wondering what would be the optimum configuration for installing on
> >a Ford Explorer. Is anyone in this newsgroup using one on an Explorer?
> >What is your configuration. If you had an unlimited budget, what would
> >be your optimum configuration?
>
> >Would buying the biggest coil, the longest rod and stinger, and biggest
> >cap hat be the best?
>
> >I wanna work 10-160 too.
>
> >Thanks for any input!
>
> >Jerry WR5V
>
> Jeyy,
>    You are on the right track.  The Texas Bugcatcher hardware is good
> quality, and the overall design of bugcatchers in general are the
> lowest loss you can find.
>   My recommendation is to first figure out how high the tip of the
> antenna can be without hitting bridges, trees, etc.  11 ft is usually
> good for highway driving.
>     Then determine where you are going to mount it.  The ideal place
> is right in the center of the roof, as far as ground loss is
> concerned, but due to height restrictions, the antenna will be shorter
> up there.  Also, believe it or not, if you mount it on any corner of
> your car, there will be some directionality in the direction of the
> diagonal corner of the car.
>     I recommend putting the base as least three feet off the ground on
> the driver's side (so it won't couple to hiway guard rails.  No
> kidding, you will see the swr meter move when a truck goes by or when
> you drive under low power lines).
>     The optimum place for the loading coil is from 1/2 to 2/3 up the
> antenna, so a 5ft Hustler mast with a 3 ft stinger (+ 1ft for the
> coil) is in the ball park.
>     The bugcatcher coils are mounted on an axial Delrin rod, about 1in
> in diameter.  Ask Henry for an extra rod, so you can put it in series
> above the one in the coil.  This is so when you mount the top hat on
> the top of the  top rod, it will be up above the coil by at least one
> coil length.  This keeps it out of the field of the coil somewhat.
>     You will need the base matching coil, or a capacitor.  I used the
> coil, but the cap should be just as good.
>     When you get it all assembled, trim the coil so that it has no
> shorted or open turns when resonant on the lowest band you operate.
> Then solder taps in the resonant positions on the coil for the other
> bands.
>     As for mechanical mounting, I used a ball mount on the side of the
> car near the rear.  I put a 3/4 inch pvc arm coming out of the side of
> the roof, with a T on the end.  It came out of the car at as spot
> towards the front of the car from the antenna with an elbow so it met
> the antenna at a 45 degree angle in a horizontal plane.  The antenna
> mast went through the T.  Two monofilament guy lines (60 lb test)
> stressed the mast towards the car in the T, one guy going across the
> car, and the other going towards the front of the car.  I ran this
> arrangement for 3 or four years daily on 40m CW in New England on my
> daily 45 mile commute (one way).  I had to replace the guys
> occaisionally, but that was all.
>
> Good luck
>
> dudley WA1X/m now /8
>
>
>
>


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:55 1996
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From: Jerry Decker <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:24:35 -0600
Organization: Texas Metronet Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <563fni$[e-mail]> <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
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Well, after all this interesting conversation, I have taken aonther
route. I have placed an order for the High Sierra. I know that some will
shame me. But, Im a big boy and can take it, hihi.

I appreciate everyones input on this subject and have learned very much
in the short life of this post.

Thanks to all,

73 de WR5V (soon to be mobile)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:55 1996
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From: edwin bailen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Halo / Squalo
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:59:17 -0600
Organization: Adhesive Media, Inc.
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: matrix.t10.nfs.eden.com
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The 10W 2-meter output on my IC-706 is a bit of a joke, but it might be
fun for SSB.  Could someone please point me a a source for design &
construction info on a 2-meter mobile halo or squalo?  (You wouldn't
believe what DEJANEWS comes up with when you search on "squalo"!)

Thanks,
Ed - N5KZW


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:57 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HB9CV 50MHz ?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 08:59:49 GMT
Organization: Ericsson
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <569ea5$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: kicc16.eraj.ericsson.se

Looking for a lightweight 6m yagi, have spotted
some 3 el. yagis with a short boom previously.
Q: What about HB9CV style ? - are there any data
around, boom/el.length, gain or any ham magz.article
for the do-it-youself ham-category.
73 Chris SM0NCL



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 16:59:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HB9CV antenna experience on HF bands
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 03:44:58 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <568r1t$[e-mail]>
References: <55muhl$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-41-202.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 12 Nov 1996 03:31:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Kebsch) wrote:

>Hi,

>if you have made any experience with the HB9CV antenna on any HF band
>please let me know. We are planning to build one for the 40m band at
>our clubstation. We are thinking about this antenna design, because
>it has 2 elements, a very short boom (1/8 wavelength), is easy to
>build and has the same performance like a good 3 element yagi.

>The idea behind that is, if a 3 element yagi does not perform better
>than a HB9CV antenna, then there is no need to spend the money for
>three elements instead of two, for a 10m long boom instead of 5m and
>the rotator will be happy also ...

>What do you think about it?

>73 de Waldemar, DK3VN
>--
>E-Mail:  [e-mail] .. or .. Packet Radio:  DK3VN @ DB0NOS.#NRW.DEU.E
U
>Big antennas, high in the sky, are better than small ones, low!          [bfh
]

I have used two HB9CV antennas.  I built one for 75 with a Create 57'
reflector and a square dipole (full size) it looked like 3 el but
actually only 2.  Gain modeled at 4.5DB and averaged about 12DB FB.
Boom kept bending and needs to be higher than 70', but was a real
killer.

I also had a 3el short 40 meter TET (HB9RG had one in EU) and it
worked well (better tha 2el Mosley, but no as good as the 2el
Cushcraft).   Construction was poor and 36' boom was weak.

A proper 2el HB9CV is a good antenna, but is not as good as a 3el mono
bander.

Dave K4JRB.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:00 1996
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From: KJ4WH <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HELP ******   How to test yagi traps for Cushcraft A4 ****************************
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:22:41 -0500
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Hello,

        I have a Cushcraft A4S 4 element yagi.  My SWR on 20 meters has risen very sh
arply, while 10, 15 and 40
are fine.  I have to suspect that the cause would be a bad trap on 20 meters.

Can anyone tell me how to test the trap to see if it is indeed bad?

Or, ... do you have any other ideas on the cause?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gary Powell
N4DL


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help finding Vert dipole article
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 03:56:02 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <568rmk$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-41-202.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 12 Nov 1996 03:42:12 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I need help finding an article (in the past year) on improving the VRD
or vert dipole.  This is not a vertical dipole, but a full size
antenna with a vertical section as per Radio Works VRD Dipole.
The article was in CQ, QST, or CQ-Contest, but I can't seem to find
it!

Thanks in advance.

Dave K4JRB
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:02 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HELP PLEASE
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:43:02 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbccc7$7c43d8c0$4f23f4cd@juanflores>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamicppp-192.hip.cam.org
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Juan Flores wrote:
>
> Dear sirs:
>
> If you have the International Callbook, please tell me if appears the
> callsign HI8-HF.
> The letters belong to my father who wants to know if his new callsign has
> already been published.

I don't have the international call book but I checked
in QRZ and Buckmaster and he is not there.

You can add yourself his Call sign and info there to
make it available to hams who check these call sign data
bases.

the URLs are :
                http://www.QRZ.COM/
                http://www.buck.com/cgi-bin/do_hamcall

they are in my page under hamlinks
-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:03 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Walt Kornienko)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help Using Transmission Lines with EZNEC
Date: 14 Nov 1996 22:25:45 GMT
Organization: Crystal Palace Networking
Lines: 19
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <56g699$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crystal.palace.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I have been having a struggle trying to model an array spaced
1/8 wave and fed 135 degrees out of phase using coaxial
cable, or open wire, as the delay line. Using a formula to
come up with the precise length of phase line, taking into
account Vf, the pattern of the antenna doesn't correlate to
what a 135 degree phase shift should produce. Any tips will
helpful.

--

*****************************************************************
*                                                               *
*                73 de Walt Kornienko - K2WK (FRC)              *
*                                                               *
*        [e-mail]  or  [e-mail]        *
*        Snail: 52 Sunset Inn Rd  Lafayette,  NJ   07848        *
*        201-579-1966 (home)      or 201-579-3660 (shack)       *
*                                                               *
*****************************************************************


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:04 1996
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From: Scott Ellington <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help Using Transmission Lines with EZNEC
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:53:46 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56g699$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Walt Kornienko wrote:
>
> I have been having a struggle trying to model an array spaced
> 1/8 wave and fed 135 degrees out of phase using coaxial
> cable, or open wire, as the delay line. Using a formula to
> come up with the precise length of phase line, taking into
> account Vf, the pattern of the antenna doesn't correlate to
> what a 135 degree phase shift should produce. Any tips will
> helpful.
>
A common misconception.  A transmission line only results in
a phase shift equal to its electrical length when it is matched,
which is certainly not the case here.  Matching each feedpoint of
a driven array is not trivial.  No doubt there are a large number
of non-functional driven arrays out there as a result.  (I've
built a few of them myself.)

Using the transmission line feature of EZNEC, you can model
the actual results with a mismatched transmission line.  It CAN
be made to work, as in the case of the HB9CV antenna.

W7EL is far better qualified to comment than I am, so perhaps Roy
will respond.
--
73,

Scott  K9MA
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:05 1996
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From: "Joseph B. Bitner" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help With Kenwood TH22AT
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:57:10 GMT
Organization: Berg Electronics
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lport1.penn.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: lport1.penn.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Hello All,

I am helping a friend try and locate some modification information on this
hand held transceiver. Can anyone help me?

Thanks, Joe


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Richard W. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help!  NBS Pub 688
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:57:55 GMT
Organization: Seanet Online Services, Seattle WA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <56d9ep$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rwclark.seanet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

James Riedl <[e-mail]> wrote:

>A co-worker of mine is looking for information regarding National Bureau
>of Standards publication 688.   It has to do with antennas.    Does
>anyone know where to find information regarding this on the internet or
>info regarding just the bureau of standards?

>Thanks, James Riedl (on behalf of Robert Sabon, retired from GTE)

>You may post-it in this user group or send E-mail to:
>[e-mail]@smtp

The National Bureau of Standards is now the National Institutes of
Science and Technology.  Try Alta Vista with the following:
"NIST" NEAR "antenna"
or variants.  Reference to publication 688 seems to be a dead end, at
least from my casual search (other terms returned 2000 leads).

Richard Clark, KB7QHC



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:06 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!trojan.neta.com!news
From: James Riedl <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help!  NBS Pub 688
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:23:20 -0700
Organization: Pronounce Technology
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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A co-worker of mine is looking for information regarding National Bureau
of Standards publication 688.   It has to do with antennas.    Does
anyone know where to find information regarding this on the internet or
info regarding just the bureau of standards?

Thanks, James Riedl (on behalf of Robert Sabon, retired from GTE)

You may post-it in this user group or send E-mail to:
[e-mail]@smtp


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Cushcraft 270 vs 270B VHF Dual Band.
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:00:39 GMT
Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <560onr$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sam.interrural.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
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Bob Berg <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hello,
>I looking for some help.  I just got my liscense and ready to construct
>a 2m/70cm base station.  I am considering the chushcraft 270 or the 270B
>the 270 has a higher rated gain then the 270B. However its twice the
>length which will limit me on how high I can mount it. The 270B has a
>lower gain but is a lot shorter wich will allow me to mount it higher.
>about 7 feet higher to be exact.  What would be the best way go?

>Any comments would be appreciated......
>N1YCH
>Bob Berg
>[e-mail]

May I ask what is limiting you as far as height??  How high off the
ground can you mount the 270?  I need a little more info. before I
venture a guess.

Ross
N7VWX




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:08 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:54:31 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55hdbk$[e-mail]>
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John Hill wrote:
>
> Help me out here. I thought I understood feeding loops,
> but this scenario has me confounded. Imagine this setup:
>
> A 40M loop consisting of a perfect square suspended vertically
> from a 55 ft. tower, standing on its corner (diamond-like). Points
> up, down, left and right. Feedpoint is the left corner. Coax runs
> straight in to the tower, then down to a multiple antenna switch
> at the base, then through buried coax to the shack.
>              .|.
>        .      |        .
>     .         |          .
>   .           |            .
> o------------|              .
>    .          |            .
>       .       |          .
>         .     |        .
>              .|.
>  -------------------------
>
> 1) First attempt to feed. 1:1 current balun wound with 50 ohm
>    coax through 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1,
>    resistance 50 ohm read at the base of the tower with an MFJ
>    antenna analyzer. I know this is not a precision instrument,
>    but I've used it in past experiments with antennas, and it
>    works fairly well.
>
> 2) Second attempt to feed. Same current balun to 1/4 wave RG-11,
>    to 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1, resistance
>    50 ohm read at base of tower.
>
> 3) Third attempt to feed. New current balun wound with 1/4 wave
>    of RG-59 to 3/8 wave 50 ohm coax to base of tower. SWR 2:1,
>    resistance 100 ohm read at base of tower.
>
> Arrgh!
>
> What am I doing wrong? It listens very well on low angle incoming
> signals. I failed to mention that the 2:1 SWR was the lowest I
> could get and it fell pretty much at the frequency I expected
> (7.005) using the conventional 1005/f formula. I have put up
> delta loops off of this tower before, apex up, bottom about 8 ft.
> off of the ground and fed them 1/4 wave down from the apex using
> the 1:1 current balun and same run of 50 ohm coax to the tower and
> down with a perfect 1:1 SWR, resistance 50 ohm before. I just wanted
> to try a different setup.
>
> Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance...John, NJ0M

Hi John,

Nothing works as it is supposed to do :)

Since most feedpoints are out of reach I usually measure feedpoint
impedance by using a 1/2 wave length coax (*Velocity) without anything
else. At the coax end I am "sure" that I have the Z of the antenna and
not some coax transformed value. When I am sure that the antenna is
tuned I add a balun.

A loop is generally in the 120/140 ohms range and I use 1/4 wave RG59
followed by 50 ohms. I then coil the RG59 NEAR THE FEED POINT and make
6 to 10 loops 10 inches diameter and tape the whole thing. In your case
the balun is not near the feed point and you have a nice L section
which could create problems.

This solution is too visible and problematic in the wind so I also used
a 2in toroid (power supply type) and made baluns by running the coax 5/6
times through the toroid. Seems to work Okay.

In you case you should check if you don't have capacitive coupling with
the tower at the top (bottom). Since you attack the diamond on a side
corner the "high voltage" points are there and these are very sensible
to capacitive coupling. You can immediatly see that if you are able to
feed at the bottom/top and get a lower SWR.

Finally, why not a Delta loop fed 1/3 from bottom corner ?

-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: 10 Nov 1996 20:25:39 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <565do3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Madjid, VE2GMI said -
Since most feedpoints are out of reach I usually measure feedpoint
impedance by using a 1/2 wave length coax (*Velocity) without anything
else. At the coax end I am "sure" that I have the Z of the antenna and
not some coax transformed value. When I am sure that the antenna is
tuned I add a balun.

Madjid,
        In spite of the time honored use of this method, it is
measuring the impedance of the feedppoint of the antenna with
the coax connected to one side.
        When this measurement line is removed and replaced by the
final line with a balun, the current distribution in the antenna
and feedline outer sheath are changed and the feedpoint impedance
may be quite different from that measured with the measurement line.

Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:10 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.nkn.net!dfw.nkn.net!news.panther.net!qatrix.panther.net!kenb
From: [e-mail] (Ken Brookner)
Subject: Re: hf9v review
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 BETA-950824-color PL0]
Lines: 21
Organization: borgnet
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:32:27 GMT

i have an hf9v-x.  i quite like it.  good swr is obtainable on all bands
with some tweaking.  i agree.  it isn't an antenna that you'll be able to
quickly tune.  but...  the results are worth it.

i too used an mfj-259 analyzer to tune it.  the antenna was mounted over
a boat dock (fresh water) with radials strung in L shapes on top of the
roof--one for each band. tuning was done while precariously perched on
a ladder.  still, it took a day to get everything just right.  but once
set it didn't change over nine months or so.

the one problem i had was with the pl-259 on the end of the 75 ohm matching
line.  it was cold soldered and i didn't notice this right off.  took a little
while to run it down.  i replaced it with an amphenol and no more problems.

i've used other verticals and most were much easier to tune, but none has
given me the results of the butternut.  that's my observation.  your results
may differ.

73
kenb, n5lpi



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:11 1996
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From: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical Polarization
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 08:15:10 -0600
Organization: ABC Radio Network Engineering - Dallas
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <5472mv$[e-mail]> <32800df2.39761449@204.127.3.4>
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David Copperhead wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:56:32 GMT, [e-mail] (James) wrote:
>
> >Why is it that Commercial broadcast stations, both radio and TV
> >(AM&FM, audio, video) use vertically polarized antenna's, yet the
> >high-gain beam/Yagi's available to consumers (Radio shack, ect) for
> >their TV's and FM radios are horizontally polarized elements?
> >-Just a thought that popped into my head while in the 'loo....
> >-pylon


PYLON,
got news for ya...
TV stations are mainly HORIZONTAL...just because the antenna LOOKS
vertical doesnt mean it is.....the TV antennas are typically batwings or
a design based on "SLOT" antennas....they radiate in the horizontal mode
though they are vertical in height....Alfred Slot antennas are
similar...they radiate horizontally because their diameter is small
compared to their wavelength and this causes the RF to radiate in a
circle around the antenna mast (not the true technical description but
its the easiest I can think up at this time you should be able to
understand)...DO NOT trun a TV antenna to vertical if you want the best
signal!!! Leave it horizontal..

FM has been mostly horizontal but in the past 20-30 years been using a
mix of hor and vertical polarization (crossed dipoles will do this...also
a halo with vertical elements on the tips will also do this in a simple
fashion though BC FM antennas are not that simple)..
nowadays, both FMs and TV are now using Circular Polarization(both horiz
and vertical in a corkscrew signal) or CP as it is abbreviated...to
reduce multipath and allow both vertical (car antennas) and horizontal
(home antennas ) to rcv the signal equally....also rabbit ears can get
best signal this way since they are NEVER true horiz or vertical most of
the time....BUT there is a giveaway for this.....you lose 3db trying to
rcv a CP signal with a LINEAR (H or V) antenna....only if you used a CP
antenna yourself woulf you get full signal....AND then the direction is
critical....there is left hand and right CP (just like Vertical and
Horizontal) and yes there is a 20db difference between the two!....BUT
with a linear antenna (H or V), it doesnt matter when trying to pick up a
CP signal..all you lose is 3db.

So the story here is LEAVE THE ANTENNAS alone...they ARE correct for the
stations you are trying to pick up

73
Chris
WB5ITT

ABC Radio Network Engineer - Dallas

> >
> >
> Simply change the polarization by mounting your yagi 90 degrees...but
> I'm sure you knew that...didn't quite get your point.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Glenn Elmore)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to build a 800MHz Yagi?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 16:00:23 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Sonoma County
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <55l3un$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: n6gn.sr.hp.com


There is construction information and relevant photographs of
a yagi which will operate at this frequency on

http://www.tapr.org/~n6gn/antenna/antenna.html


Glenn Elmore n6gn

amateur IP:     [e-mail]
Internet:       [e-mail]

|--------------- N6GN's Higher Speed Packet WWW Page -------------------|
|                                                                       |
|       http://www.tapr.org/~n6gn/index.html            |
|                                                                       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Martin Ellis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How to test traps
Date: 15 Nov 96 02:49:09 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Subject: Re: How to test traps
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:20:57 +1300
From: Martin Ellis <[e-mail]>
 To: KJ4WH <[e-mail]>
 CC: [e-mail]


> > From: KJ4WH <[e-mail]>
> > How to test yagi traps for Cushcraft A4 ****************************
> > Can anyone tell me how to test the trap to see if it is indeed bad?
> > Or, ... do you have any other ideas on the cause?
> > Gary Powell  N4DL

 Hello Gary,
 I had this problem with my TET Tribander, and have worked
 on it several times.

 A faulty trap generally has developed some corrosion, which
 causes a poor connection between the coil wire and the element
 or the tip extension of the element.

 A quick way to identify if there is a fault is to use a digital
 multimeter and simply check for DC continuity between the
 trap body and the element, and also between the trap body and
 the continuation of the element or tip extension.
 (Check for DC continuity between the inner and the outer parts
 of each element).  If it is bad for DC it will be bad for RF!

 My Fluke 77 will show 0.1 or 0.2 ohms if the connections are
 OK, and many ohms or K-ohms (and varying) if there is a corroded
 connection.

 When you identify the faulty trap, it is necessary to strip
 the trap,and clean up the materials with fine sandpaper.
 Coat with non-corrosive paste, and check again with the multimeter.
 I have had good results from wrapping the whole ends of the trap
 with self-amalgamating rubber tape to seal out moisture.

 It is necessary to bring the antenna to the ground to carry
 out this work, so do not forget to check every trap, as a fault
 in a director/reflector trap may not affect the SWR, but will
 affect performance.

 Hope this is of help...

 73,
 Martin ZL1ANJ
< [e-mail] >



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:14 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Importance of coax length on HF   A myth?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:00:57 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55ejg1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <55ejg1$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (J. Fred
Riley) writes:

>[e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
>>How about an antenna which has a 75 ohm feedpoint resistance and no
>>reactance, connected to the rig with a 50 ohm cable? A 50 ohm SWR meter
at
>>the rig will measure 1.5:1, regardless of the length of the coax.
>
>I think you meant to say, "...connected to the rig with 75 ohm  coax."

Yes, in the case of 50 ohm line connected to a 75 ohm load, the SWR in the
line is 1.5:1 only at the load, given that any practical line has
attenuation.  The SWR at the transmitter end will be less than 1.5:1, and
indeed the lenght of the line does make a difference.  But with a 75 ohm
line and 75 ohm load, the SWR on the line is 1:1, independent of length,
presenting "exactly" a 75 ohm load to the SWR meter, and if it's a 50 ohm
meter and accurate, it will read 1.5:1 SWR.

73, K7ITM

Cheers,
Tom
Please email to: [e-mail].
The account from which this was posted is seldom checked for email.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!minerva.ibernet.es!news.ctv.es!usenet
From: "Xavier Pedrerol - EA3BHK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Info abt tribanders, pse!
Date: 12 Nov 1996 20:42:11 GMT
Organization: C.T.V.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <01bbd0d9$b2119d00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ctv4213.ctv.es
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Hi folks I wonder if you can send me your opinions about the following
antennas:

KT-34A  - KT-34XA  - EXPLORER  - TH7

I've got a old home made 5 elements tribander antenna, now is the time to
buy a new one and I wish to know your comments.

Thanks in advance de Xavier, EA3BHK
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:16 1996
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From: Dave Hungerford <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Installing CB Cophase antennas
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:17:06 -0500
Organization: Futuris/Callnet
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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What is the proper method to install two vertical cophase antennas on a
truck? Should the transmission lines be the same length for both
antenna? Is there anything special in the way they should be installed
or wired? We can't seem to get the SWR below about 3:1.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (stop junk e-mail)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Installing CB Cophase antennas
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:46:01
Organization: Symbios Logic
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kthompso.ks.symbios.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

In article <[e-mail]> Dave Hungerford <[e-mail]> wri
tes:
>From: Dave Hungerford <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Installing CB Cophase antennas
>Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:17:06 -0500

>What is the proper method to install two vertical cophase antennas on a
>truck? Should the transmission lines be the same length for both
>antenna? Is there anything special in the way they should be installed
>or wired?


How about under the driver's seat.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:18 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Installing CB Cophase antennas
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:34:13 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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> In article <[e-mail]> Dave Hungerford <[e-mail]> w
rites:
> >What is the proper method to install two vertical cophase antennas on a
> >truck?

Installing CB phased verticals on a vehicle is a waste unless
they are separated by at least 14 ft.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Lucas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: inv L matching  HELP!
Date: 10 Nov 1996 13:40:12 GMT
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I have a 175 foot inv L for 160 meters, running thru a 500 PF
cariable,,, still cant tune the thing  to  reasonable SWR on 160,,,
nowhere within the range of the vraiable do i even get a dip on SWR...
what am i doing wrong?   e-mail please?



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:19 1996
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From: "Tom C. Brown, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: inv L matching  HELP!
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:26:07 -0600
Organization: Madison Materials Company
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To: Bob Lucas <[e-mail]>

Bob Lucas wrote:
>
> I have a 175 foot inv L for 160 meters, running thru a 500 PF
> cariable,,, still cant tune the thing  to  reasonable SWR on 160,,,
> nowhere within the range of the vraiable do i even get a dip on SWR...
> what am i doing wrong?   e-mail please?



Hi Bob-

First thing I would recommend is measuring the feedpoint impedance of
the antenna, if you have (or can get hold of) an impedance bridge.  Due
to variables in ground system, height, surrounding objects and other
things, the feedpoint impedance could be anything at this point, and it
may take an L-network instead of a simple series-capacitor to match it.

GL and 73

Tom KJ5IE


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:20 1996
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From: Ron Grandmaison <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: inv L matching Help!
Date: 12 Nov 1996 13:51:58 GMT
Organization: US Department of Transportation
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Bob Lucas wrote"  I have trouble loading my 160 meter 175 foot
inverted L with a 500 pF capacitor.

Answer:  Sounds to me like you don't have enough capacity.
Either add a fixed cap across the variable or increase the
length of your wire to about 190 feet if you don't have another
cap to add.

Ron, W4VR



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (dick sander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Pha
Date: 8 Nov 1996 18:26:39 GMT
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems
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Dick Sander, K5QY wrote:

>I understand that a "purist" believes that the current-forced divider with a
>90 degree L-network (hereafter called L-net) is the optimum way to feed two
>phased arrays.
>.....snip......

Roy Lewallen, W7EL responded:

>If that's the case, then I'm not a "purist". There are lots of ways to get
>the desired currents into the array elements. I listed references to
>several in my posting, and ON4UN's book summarizes several.
>
>I don't know of any way to build a multiband system which has a good
>pattern on more than one band.
>
>If that's what you're after, go for it.
>
>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Tom, W8JI wrote:

>Roy answered everything very well. I especially enjoyed his truism about
>the resistor in the Wilkenson not getting hot or even being necessary when
>the system is working, and getting hot and being required only when
>something is out of whack.
>
>73 Tom

Roy and Tom thanks for the responses. I do have access to the references
listed. Your answers verified what I knew. After nearly 20 years with my
splitter-combiner using 1300 W output, I've never seen any burned or charred
spots on my 100 ohm, 50 W resistor.

I posted my questions because I felt you guys were giving that poor power
resistor more bad press than it deserves. I just wanted to present a multiband
application where a resistor does have a use.

It seems to me that it boils down to monoband phase arrays with proper phasing
feed systems, or a Toriodal Wilkinson for multiband verts such as a Hytower,
Butternut, MFJ, etc. The only publication that I'm aware of describing a torio
dal splitter-combiner for a "multiband array" is in the Antenna Compendium Vol
 2,
page 10.

Thanks for the discussion.

73, Dick -K5QY





From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:22 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Pha
Date: 9 Nov 1996 17:38:16 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <55vu0v$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(dick sander) writes:

>I posted my questions because I felt you guys were giving that poor power
>resistor more bad press than it deserves. I just wanted to present a
>multiband
>application where a resistor does have a use.
>
>It seems to me that it boils down to monoband phase arrays with proper
>phasing
>feed systems, or a Toriodal Wilkinson for multiband verts such as a
Hytower,
>Butternut, MFJ, etc. The only publication that I'm aware of describing a
>toriodal splitter-combiner for a "multiband array" is in the Antenna
>Compendium Vol 2,
>page 10.
>
>Thanks for the discussion.
>
>73, Dick -K5QY

Hi Dick,

I assume were are talking about a two element end fire array, since that
was the original subject. If you play with some numbers on paper, you'll
see equal voltages at the common point of two 90 degree lines results in
equal currents in the load regardless of load resistance as long as the
loads aren't reactive.

I suspect someone took off with this fact, misapplied it in an article or
on the air by adapting it to phased arrays, and it became accepted as
fact.

I might be missing something, but I see no reason for the splitter. In
every case I can think of, it makes the problem of equal current at the
load worse, not better. So I'll take a risk and go one step further, I'll
say it use of a splitter makes the problem of equal element currents
worse, not better.

Here are the problems:

1.) We need equal voltages at the common point, not equal currents or
power. A power splitter is the last thing we want at that junction. We
need equal voltage, and that means a direct parallel connection.

2.) The lines only provide equal load current when they are 90 electrical
degrees long, that rules out reactive loads or any phase shift system
being inserted in any line.

The only application I can think of where the splitter would work, is
where the port impedances are exactly equal and line lengths are exactly
90 degrees or odd multiples of 90 degrees. The only case I can think of
where line impedances are equal in reactance and impedance is in a
bi-directional system with end-fire or broadside arrays, using either zero
or 180 degree phasing.

The problem isn't one of heat, it's just a system that has no effect when
it isn't needed and bad effects when it is.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider Necessary for a Phased Array?
Date: 5 Nov 1996 19:10:54 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <55eenh$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:

>   Hi Tom-
>
>    OK, if not a Wilskenson power divider (or similar), then what steps
>do you take to assure equal element currents?  Yes, mutual coupling
>does make the whole problem difficult but, it seems to me, that
>changing the element spacing just sets up a new set of problematic
>conditions with mutuals.  This is not mentioned in this and your prior
>posts.
>
>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV

Let me try again.

I watch the null depth. That is the true test because no combination of
phase shift that will produce a deep null without nearly equal radiation
from each element. If the elements are perfectly symmetrical that means
equal current.

I do this with a delay line and impedance and phase shifting circuits. A
power divider is a waste of time, it gurantees nothing and allows no
adjustment.

With end fire, closer spacing increases loss, and wider spacing decreases
directivity. I split the difference.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:24 1996
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From: Hal Rosser AE4YN <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:03:39 -0800
Organization: CSRA Internet Services
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I'm a new ham, & would like decent antenna to work
80, 40, 20, 15, &10... Does the G5RV work ok on these
bands ? I have an old MFJ941c tuner, will it suffice to work
with it? (running about 100 w from TS520s)
Anyone with experience on this antenna? Or can suggest a better
and simpler cheap multiband wire antenna?
--
73'S de AE4YN
Hal
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:25 1996
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:02:47 -0500
From: "Vernon J. Kunes, Jr" <[e-mail]>
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Hal Rosser AE4YN wrote:
>
> I'm a new ham, & would like decent antenna to work
> 80, 40, 20, 15, &10... Does the G5RV work ok on these
> bands ? I have an old MFJ941c tuner, will it suffice to work
> with it? (running about 100 w from TS520s)
> Anyone with experience on this antenna? Or can suggest a better
> and simpler cheap multiband wire antenna?
> --
> 73'S de AE4YN
> Hal
> [e-mail]
I have never used a G5RV myself, although many people swear by them. I
use a "SkyLoop": a horizontal loop cut for the lowest freq you will
transmit on, shaped as a square and fed with 213 coax. Because I have it
only about 1/10 wavelength above ground, it acts as sort of a cloud
warmer, but I get out to 1000 miles in good conditions, and it is very
quiet. But it does take up some real estate. Each leg is a little over
68 feet long, and the diagonal spacing is around 100 feet. It is in the
ARRL antenna book. You might want to give it a look. It is quiet. Good
luck.  73 de N2YZS   Vern


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:26 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] ("Stephen Walters")
Subject: Re: Just try this, it will work
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Compulink Information eXchange
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 11:22:13 GMT
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I take it that you've tried this....

As it obviously explains why what should come out of (b) the anus,
continually comes of (a) the head and, conversely, when you talk, it
REALLY sounds like it coming out of you anus.

What other subjects do you give advice on?


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:03:28 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 46
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Tony Preston <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hi,

>Do you have any experience of using a Log Periodic antenna for HF?

>I am currently looking at upgrading from my tri-band beam. How does a
>Log Periodic compare with a tri-band Yagi, and how does it compare with
>a mono-band Yagi?

>If you have tried a Log Periodic for HF, I would appreciate your
>comments, advice, and any technical details on their performance (e.g.
>gain).

>Thanks for your time,

>Tony

>PS - please respond direct to my email address.

>--
>========================================
>Tony Preston
>PERTH
>WESTERN AUSTRALIA

>Callsign: VK6CV
>Mail may be sent to...
>[e-mail]             [INTERNET]
>VK6CV@VK6BBR.#per.#wa.aus.oc    [PACKET]
>========================================

Tony,
    A Log Periodic Antenna (LPA) will be bigger and heavier than a
monoband yagi for equivalent performance on a single band.  However,
when you compare an LPA against a tribander, with trap losses, (which
get worse as the bugs and moisture crawls in) they start to become
equal.
    Also, if you start stacking monbanders for three of four bands,
the interactions destroy the f/b ratio of the monobanders.  The LPA
starts looking attractive at that point.  Finally, if you want gain
and f/b on  20, 18, 15, 12, and 10m, you can't bean an LPA.  Tennadyne
makes good ones.

Dudley, WA1X/8



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:27 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:52:02 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 8
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Actually, there is ANOTHER reason that the LPDA has caught on in recent
years--it went off-patent.

Another piece of trivia (Bill Sabin certainly knows the answer to this
one): what company owned the patent to the log-periodic antenna? :-)

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:15:14 GMT
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On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:03:28 GMT, [e-mail] (Dudley
Chapman) wrote:

>Tony Preston <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>
>>Do you have any experience of using a Log Periodic antenna for HF?
>
>>I am currently looking at upgrading from my tri-band beam. How does a
>>Log Periodic compare with a tri-band Yagi, and how does it compare with
>>a mono-band Yagi?
>
>>If you have tried a Log Periodic for HF, I would appreciate your
>>comments, advice, and any technical details on their performance (e.g.
>>gain).
>
>>Thanks for your time,
>
>>Tony
>
>>PS - please respond direct to my email address.
>
>>--
>>========================================
>>Tony Preston
>>PERTH
>>WESTERN AUSTRALIA
>
>>Callsign: VK6CV
>>Mail may be sent to...
>>[e-mail]             [INTERNET]
>>VK6CV@VK6BBR.#per.#wa.aus.oc    [PACKET]
>>========================================

Hi Tony,
the LPA is a compromise antenna system (compared to a 3el monoband
yagi or a 4band, 2el Quad).  At best, only four elements are active on
any one frequency and their spaceing, length and matching are
compromised.
In my opinion, the multiband Quad gives you the most "Bang" for the
buck.  I don't believe their is a commercial tri-band yagi (traps or
linear loading)  for a given boom length that will  give more gain,
and better fb than a good 2el, multi-band quad.  The Quad, compared to
the Yagi  is much easier to tune for max performance.  I know of no
"top" DX station that uses a LPA system.  In the mid sixties I was in
charge of a station that used eight LP antenna systems.  Many times I
compared them on twenty meters against a 4el, 20m, monobander (204BA)
which I used for my amateur station.  The 204BA always out performed
the LPAs on twenty meters.
73, Jesse, W6KKT




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:30 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:37:25 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <5653sl$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup549.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse) writes
:
>On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:03:28 GMT, [e-mail] (Dudley
>Chapman) wrote:
>
>>Tony Preston <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>
>>>Do you have any experience of using a Log Periodic antenna for HF?
>>
>>>I am currently looking at upgrading from my tri-band beam. How does a
>>>Log Periodic compare with a tri-band Yagi, and how does it compare with
>>>a mono-band Yagi?
>>
>the LPA is a compromise antenna system (compared to a 3el monoband
>yagi or a 4band, 2el Quad).  At best, only four elements are active on
>any one frequency and their spaceing, length and matching are
>compromised.

   Which leads to my opinionated remark!  :)

        The above being so, their F/B ratio tends to be a lot worse
         than a carefully orchestrated collection of well worked out
         single banders for ham use.

As frequency agile devices (hope that doesn't get me in trouble with Altavoz!)
,
they get you a cheaper installation on a common boom for a wide range of
acceptable frequencies, but you pay for it in less than optimal gain and, to
my way of thinking, a far poorer F/B ratio.   At a very specific narrow
frequency range, one can do WONDERS to really make F/B ratio REAL good
with yagis and tuning a quad for best F/B ratio really makes the antenna
shine at the very little expense paid for that in loss of forward gain, per
my actual experience.

In actual practice, the ability to reject interfering stations from your HF
array is worth more, in my personal opinion, than, perhaps, that last mite
of gain on transmitting.   If you can't hear 'em in the din, you can't work
'em.  More specifically, in all the racket, whomever hears that split second
coupla dots or dashes from the rare one that others miss, often carries off
the prize in a heck of a lot less time spent transmitting!

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:31 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:39:25 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <56540d$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup549.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>RE: Jesse's Comments
>
>Who can argue with the truth?

          One wonders..  :)

>Chip N1IR

          sometimes, Chip...

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:31 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:49:48 GMT
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RE: Mike's comments

Mike--flew right over my head.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:32 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:22:32 GMT
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In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>RE: Mike's comments
>
>Mike--flew right over my head.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

Which message to you?  :)

    Cracking pileups on low band from a disandvantaged lousy ground
    conductivity site does have to go over somebodies' heads most of the
    time to get in!

       :)

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:33 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 10 Nov 1996 15:56:43 GMT
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RE: Jesse's Comments

Who can argue with the truth?

The only reason LPYA's have caught on in recent years is the advent of the
WARC bands and the desire to have an 'all in one' antenna.

73
Chip N1IR



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:34 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:27:50 -0800
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W6KKT Jesse wrote:
> the LPA is a compromise antenna system (compared to a 3el monoband
> yagi or a 4band, 2el Quad).  At best, only four elements are active on
> any one frequency and their spaceing, length and matching are
> compromised.

Hi Jesse, you're right and another way of looking at it is: An LP
covers a continuous range of frequencies. If one doesn't use all those
frequencies between 14MHz and 30MHz then one is wasting the part of
the design that is not used. So dividing our 2.7 MHz by the total of
16 MHz gives a frequency design efficiency of 17%, thus the compromise.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jari Jokiniemi)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: 13 Nov 1996 13:04:59 GMT
Lines: 13
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References: <[e-mail]> <563gq4$[e-mail]>
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In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:03:28 GMT


In article <563gq4$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dudley
Chapman) writes:
   monoband yagi for equivalent performance on a single band.  However,
   when you compare an LPA against a tribander, with trap losses, (which
   get worse as the bugs and moisture crawls in) they start to become
   equal.

Anyone has an idea of how much are the trap losses with a typical
tribander? 1 dB? What about a fivebander like Mosley TA-53M?

--
Jari Jokiniemi, [e-mail], OH2MPO, OH3BU
Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, [phone]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:08:48 GMT
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On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 04:37:30 GMT, [e-mail] (Dudley
Chapman) wrote:

>[e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse) wrote:
>
>Jesse,
>    Most of the lore about designing LPAs came from one man's work
>that was done in the late 40s I believe.  Since then, it has been
>found that the published curves for gain, given the spacing and taper
>factor are not quite right.  These days, with the ready availability
>of antenna modeling software people are discovering better parameters
>for LPAs.  I do not dispute your observations with the 8 LPAs you were
>doing the comparisons with.  I also do not dispute your endorsement of
>the quad.  A multiband quad is very hard to beat, except for
>mechanical stability.
>    I know of quite a few "top guns" who use LPAs these days.  Look at
>the scores that Matt, KC1XX racks up in most worldwide contests.  He
>uses two stacked LPAs.  Also, WA1EKV, while not a true contestor,
>usually is known for having the loudest signal on the planet on almost
>every band from 80 through 10.  A few years ago, he took down two big
>stacks of monobanders and replaced them with some very large homebrew
>LPAs that are incredible to behold. His observation, from both
>modeling and operating, is that stacking the monobanders compromised
>the performance of each antenna when compared to each one in
>isolation.  The LPAs were a better solution than the stack.  On the
>other hand, a single  isolated monobander has it all over the LPA in
>regard to gain vs size and weight.
>
>dudley, WA1X

Hi Dudley,  why  will "logs" in a "stack" perform better than
monobanders with individual higher gain in a stack (assuming both
systems have same spaceing and tuned and matched correctly).
73, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for a book by G3BDQ
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:39:29 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
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I am looking to replace an antenna I lost.  The Practical Wire Antenna
Book by G3BDQ (RSGB).   If you have a copy please let me know via
E-Mail.

Dave K4JRB
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:38 1996
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From: David Solomon <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for BugCatcher
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:23:05 -0800
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Hello,

I'm thinking of getting a Bugcatcher antenna to use as a multi-band
antenna from my New York City apartment.  Currently, I am using mono-band
Hamsticks.  I understand the Bugcatchers put out a much better signal.

Can anyone make any reconmendations? Please let me know the approx. size,
weight and price of the unit as well as performance.  Also, how do I
switch bands?

Thanks in advance,
David - AB2CI


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:38 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for BugCatcher
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:49:32 -0800
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David Solomon wrote:
> Can anyone make any reconmendations?  > David - AB2CI

Hi David, A fixed location is not usually as limited as a
vehicle. What is the longest antenna possible at your QTH?
Whatever that length is, use it and a loading coil instead
of the 8ft bugcatcher. A homemade loading coil is much, much
less expensive and is not called upon to survive the rigors
of mobile operation. If it's vertical, don't go much over
5/8 WL in length on your highest frequency of interest.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:39 1996
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From: "Jim & Joyce Ross" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for good Tnc Software!!
Date: 13 Nov 1996 05:27:05 GMT
Organization: NETConnect, Utah
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David McLean <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<55q4r4$[e-mail]>...
> Hello All:
>
>       I am looking for a good program to use on my tnc. If you have any
> let me know. Thnaks!!!
>
You didn't say what kind of a tnc you have but if its an AEA (PK232 type or
family), I highly recommend N8BA's for PCs I have used it for years. He ask
for a donation of $15 bucks. I think that is still the same.. enjoy  WI7M
Jim



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:40 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: LOOP ARRAY
Date: 12 Nov 1996 23:32:27 GMT
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Hi There--

I would be interested to know if anyone has had some experience with
(transmitting) loop arrays. Specifically, the 'isoloop' type small loops
which are tuned to resonance. I suspect phasing must be a bit of a
challenge and was wondering if anyone had tried. Of course, they'd
probably only be practically phased for one frequency. Any 'elp?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Donn J. Sachs)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MFJ hf antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 17:33:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Res. Univ.
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   "Dick Reeve(TEMP-Test Area Tech)" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> I have been thinking about purchasing either an R5 or R7 multi-band
>> vertical.  I just heard about MFJ's 1796 and 1798 antennas.  Has anyone had
>> experience with the above MFj antennas?  How do either of them compare to
>> the R5-R7 antennas?
>>
>> Bob, KD8LR
>> [e-mail]
>I have also been looking at the same antenna's. I want a multiband
>that I can use at home and with my RV in the desert. Does anyone have
>any experience with the MFJ antenna's?


Not with the MFJ or R5/R7 but I currently use a Hustler 5BTV at my apt.
I live in a townhouse so I take the ant down when not in use, 2 sections
about 13 ft long. Works OK running 50 watts. I know it's a compromise but
actually it works great considering the situation. It is mounted on the ground
about 6ft from a concrete/brick bldg. Also I only paid $40 (used) for it.
If you check the ARRL Antenna book they have a mod for this ant. when mounted
on a Alum RV. Don't have one (RV that is) so I haven't tried it.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:42 1996
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From: Pat Hines <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: Minimum curve radius for 9913 coax?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:38:41 +0000
Organization: Surf Communications, Inc.
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Bruce S. Howland wrote:
>
> Michael Bruss wrote:
> >
> > What is the minimum curve radius for 9913 type cable (actually, it's
> > 9086)?  I have the impression that if it is bent too sharply, its RF
>
> The minimum bend radius should be _no less_ than 2-1/2 times the
> diameter of the cable, according to the methods we used on sub
> construction.  I think 9913 is .405" in diameter, so that would be 1.01"
> minimum BR.  For me, that's too tight.  I generally double that just to
> be safe.



No, the minimum bend radius is dependant on the type of center conductor
and the type of dielectric between the conductors in co-ax feedline.  In
this case minimum bend radius is listed by the mil spec as 6 inches.

     The dielecric is real 9913 and 9913 clones if air and polypropylene
strands.  Better to go the hard line than 9913 if your transmitting.
For scanners 9913 is OK.  RG-8 does have about three times the loss as
9913.

Pat
KD4BFA


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:43 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Minimum curve radius for 9913 coax?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 15:09:49 GMT
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In working with the Air Force, installing ground transmitters for aircraft
navigation, we would not use anything less than 6 times the cable dia.  If
we were able to do larger bends, we would


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:44 1996
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From: Rick Kruse <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Mobile antenna mounting advice
Date: 14 Nov 1996 01:40:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Tulsa
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Greetings!

I need a bit of advice regarding the mounting of an antenna on my truck.

I've been lusting after the Standard C5900DA and will have one in
my posession shortly.  As far as I know, there are two mobile, tri-band
antennas available for the 6m/2m/70cm bands this radio supports -
one from Diamond, and one from Comet.  Both are on the order of five
feet tall.

I intend to mount the radio and antenna in/on my 1994 GMC full-sized
pickup.  Because of how high in the air the truck sits, I can't mount the
antenna on the roof of the cab without running into all kinds of clearance
problems. I have been advised to consider using a trunk-mount device on
the hood of the truck, but I'm afraid that would be "cosmetically
challenged".  The truck has a bed liner in it, so drilling holes and
mounting
some kind of bracket in the bed would be difficult, but not impossible,
although I'm concerned about performance of the antenna. A rear bumper
mount would interfere with tailgate operation, and the rear bumper
has a rubber cosmetic covering on part of it, so I don't know if that
will be an option.

So, at this point, before I purchase a mount, I'd love to hear from anyone
who has any other ideas on this.  Any advice/suggestions/ideas would be
*very* welcome indeed!

Please send me a copy of any posts in email, because my access to usenet
tends to be infrequent at times.

Thanks in advance!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Kruse                 KC5UVS                  [e-mail]
Director of Technical Services                [phone]
University of Tulsa                    http://www.utulsa.edu/~rlk


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:45 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need good antenna for recieving 41 Meter band...
Date: 11 Nov 1996 07:09:43 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hello-

I am a newbie with an old Realistic DX-300 and I want to listen to
Deutsche Welle on the 6085 (Malta/Canada) and the 6075 (Sines..wherever
that is..).  My fiancee is a German native and I am trying to learn German
and keep up with German news!  I had a wire thrown over my roof (about 65'
long north-south) and I could get these stations,  albeit poorly and
noisily).  Recently I hung a north-south 50' horizontal wire (no tuner,
no balun) and tho the 6075 is stronger,  it takes a lot of tweaking to
keep out bleedover from the "religious stations",  and the 6085 is just
lost in a bunch of noise.  How can I improve reception for these freq's?
I might be able to afford a Radio Shack antenna tuner,  but room for a big
dipole or money for installing a long vertical isn't readily available...
One more question - am I hoping for too much?  I would like to hear these
stations more clearly and without the fade in / fade outs or noise from
nearby stations.  I wonder how much of my problem is just the "nature of
the beast",  i.e.,  international broadcasts are inherently noisy and
unstable...  Can anyone help - remember,  I do not have a lot of money,
but I can use my hands and a soldering iron with the best of them...

Rockwell


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need good antenna for recieving 41 Meter band...
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:21:05 GMT
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[e-mail] wrote:

>Hello-

>I am a newbie with an old Realistic DX-300 and I want to listen to
>Deutsche Welle on the 6085 (Malta/Canada) and the 6075 (Sines..wherever
>that is..).  My fiancee is a German native and I am trying to learn German
>and keep up with German news!  I had a wire thrown over my roof (about 65'
>long north-south) and I could get these stations,  albeit poorly and
>noisily).  Recently I hung a north-south 50' horizontal wire (no tuner,
>no balun) and tho the 6075 is stronger,  it takes a lot of tweaking to
>keep out bleedover from the "religious stations",  and the 6085 is just
>lost in a bunch of noise.  How can I improve reception for these freq's?
>I might be able to afford a Radio Shack antenna tuner,  but room for a big
>dipole or money for installing a long vertical isn't readily available...

A dipole for this frequency would be 468/f or 76.9 feet.  Not real
big.  You could put it in and inverted-vee configuration.  That would
use only one support.  Spread the wires out as much as possible if
you do this.  A dipole would get you more signal, but that doesn't
sound like it is your problem.

>One more question - am I hoping for too much?  I would like to hear these
>stations more clearly and without the fade in / fade outs or noise from
>nearby stations.  I wonder how much of my problem is just the "nature of
>the beast",  i.e.,  international broadcasts are inherently noisy and
>unstable...  Can anyone help - remember,  I do not have a lot of money,
>but I can use my hands and a soldering iron with the best of them...

The "bleed" is probably because your radio lacks sufficient
selectivity.  Find a local ham and listen on his radio.  If the
reception meets your standards, start looking for a better
radio, with a return policy you can live with.
Good radios are not cheap.  The fading is pretty
much the "nature of the beast".

>Rockwell


Tom - N1MM
Tom Wagner - N1MM



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:47 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need help on mobile antennas
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 02:19:23 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <563e8a$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbc99f$5a6d0da0$LocalHost@NETCOM>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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"Jack" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>From: Jack <[e-mail]>
>> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
>> Subject: Need help on mobile antennas
>> Date: Monday, January 01, 1601
>>
>> Has anyone been hf mobiling for a while and been experimenting with
>> different antennas systems?Need your input for what works best for
>you.Also
>> since I just bought the IC706 need this antenna to include 6mtrs. Thanks
>> and 73
>> Jack/N1JAT
>>

Jack.,
    I used to do a lot of 40m CW mobiling and experimented with quite
a few antennas.  My findings were that many popular antennas are very
lossy.  Hustlers, for example have metal rings at each end of the
center loading coils, and also very thin wire.  They are pretty bad.
Many hams think that they are good, because they load well with no
matching network.  In fact, this is proof of their loss.  A short
vertical has a low radiation resistance.  Hustlers load well because
the ohmic loss + the radiation resistance add up to 50 ohms or so.
    The best bargain going are those fiberglass antennas with helical
windings.  ProAm, the TenTec one and a few others are good.  These are
cheap, unobtrusive and work well.
    The best performer that I ever had was a "bugcatcher" design.  5ft
of Hustler mast, with a nice 2 1/2 inch diameter open coil about 1 ft
long (Texas Bugcatcher model 60 I think).  I had the guy make me a
special one with a longer Delrin center rod which projected axially
above the coil by about 1 ft.  This is so the 1ft diameter top hat
would not be right on top of the coil and in its field.  After the top
hat, I had a 3 ft steel whip.  The whole thing was mounted rather high
above the rear wheel on the drivers side (so it won't couple to the
metal guard rails on the side of the hiway.
    The coil was trimmed so that there were no shorted or open turns
on 40m at my favorite operating frequency.  However, I put taps on the
coil for the higher bands.  Tapped turns reduce the efficiency (when
you are using them), but the ohmic losses are less as you go up to the
higher bands.
    A low loss mobile vertical needs a coil or a cap at the base to
match it properly.  I used the open coil offered by Texas Bugcatcher,
but my belief is that a  cap will do just as well (the value depends
on the  band.).  There is some supersition out there that says a coil
is better, but there is no science behind that belief.
    On the whole, the 2:1 swr bandwidth is a good measure of
efficiency of shortened mobile verticals. The narrower the bandwidth,
the lower the losses (given the same overall length)   I had a 2:1 of
about 20khz on 40 m.  The fiberglass jobbers had about 40 khz, and the
Hustler is way wide.
    Finally, since I stopped mobiling, a new breed of antennas has
surfaced, called "screwdriver motor" antennas.  They have screwdriver
motors that move the loading coil on a leadscrew so that you can
change bands and tune within a band without stopping and moving a tap.
You will find them advertised in the back of QST and other mags.  I
think one brand is called High Sierra.  I have not used one, but one
of the ARRL antenna compendiums has a "bake off" of a few designs and
the screwdriver one compares favorably with my aforementioned
bugcatcher.  If I were going to start mobiling again, I would get one
of those and be done with it.
    Oh, forget 6 meters from the same antenna.  Plan on having a 6m
whip with a switch

Good luck,
Dudley WA1X/m





From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:48 1996
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From: Seth Thomas Schneider <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need help on mobile antennas
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:59:12 -0800
Organization: Multilingual Computing
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbc99f$5a6d0da0$LocalHost@NETCOM> <563e8a$[e-mail]>
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I too had a similar interest and have compiled about 150 pages of stuff
on different mobile hf antennas. It has been very valuable for me to go
through this information and decide what to get.

I also have an ICOM I-706 and was really frustrated trying to find a
decent antenna. I wanted something that worked all bands and I could use
for received well outside of the Han bands.

So far I have purchased an older Webster Band Spanner and a TJ Antenna.
I'd like to get the Bandhopper but am waiting till I have the $500 for
this. I keep looking for more information on mobile hf antennas and have
developed quite a collection of information.

I have information on the following:
     Bandhopper MT & RT from Avtech
     Outbacker antennas
     Broadbander BB2 from TJ Antenna
     Texas Bugcatcher from GLA Systems
     Carolina Bug Katcher and Ham Sticks from Lakeview
     Big DK-DX and the HW-DXr from H Stewart Designs
     Spider Antennas from Multi Band Antennas
     SG-303 from SGC
     HS-1000 from High Sierra.Dudley Chapman wrote:

If you want I can send you a copy of all this. I think it is a great
place to start and then you can contact each company if you want further
information.

It cost me about $15 to put it all together for you. So if you wanted to
send $20 I could send this out via Priority Mail.

Seth

>
> "Jack" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >From: Jack <[e-mail]>
> >> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
> >> Subject: Need help on mobile antennas
> >> Date: Monday, January 01, 1601
> >>
> >> Has anyone been hf mobiling for a while and been experimenting with
> >> different antennas systems?Need your input for what works best for
> >you.Also
> >> since I just bought the IC706 need this antenna to include 6mtrs. Thanks
> >> and 73
> >> Jack/N1JAT
> >>


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:49 1996
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From: scott <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need skeds for 160M antenna test
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 00:36:32 -0800
Organization: Aero Head Aviation
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Looking for 160M contacts to test my shortened dipole antenna for 160M.
Sked times after 0000Z best for me (between 0000Z and 0200Z).  I am
located in SW Wisconsin and prefer to start with 250 to 500 mile radius
of the area. (LaCrosse, WI)...73, Scott, N0EDV.

--
Gotta FLY or gonna Die !
    Ask me about my
 Aeronca Super Chief !


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:51 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!crusty.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx04-32
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 21:18:11 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <55tjmq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx04-32.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

Here's some information about array elements which have a negative
resistance.

The feedpoint impedance of an array element is made up of more than one
part. One part is the self-impedance of the element -- the impedance of the
element when all others are removed. There's also a contribution from the
coupling to each of the other elements. This is sometimes called "coupled
impedance" (cf. Jasik). For a two-element array, the equations are:

  V1 = I1*Z11 + I2*Z12
  V2 = I1*Z21 + I2*Z22

where

  V1 =  the voltage at the feedpoint of element 1
  V2 =  the voltage at the feedpoint of element 2
  I1 =  the current at the feedpoint of element 1
  I2 =  the current at the feedpoint of element 2
  Z11 = the self impedance of element 1
  Z22 = the self impedance of element 2
  Z12 = Z21 = the mutual impedance between elements 1 and 2

All quantities are complex. Larger arrays have additional terms and
equations. A common model for the element 1 feedpoint is Z11 in series with
a voltage source whose value is I2*Z12, representing voltage ("coupled
voltage") induced due to mutual coupling. Similarly, the element 2
feedpoint can be represented by Z22 in series with a voltage source of
I1*Z21 volts. (A three element array would have an additional source at
each feedpoint, a four element array two additional sources, etc.)

From the equations, we can calculate:

  Z1 = V1/I1 = Z11 + (I2/I1)*Z12
  Z2 = V2/I2 = (I1/I2)*Z21 + Z22

These are the feedpoint impedances at each element. Notice that the
feedpoint impedance of element 1 has changed from Z11 (which was its
impedance when the second element was missing) to the new value Z1. The
amount of change -- the coupled impedance -- is (I2/I1)*Z12. This change
can be very substantial.

The resistive (real) part of Z11 has to be positive, but Z12 (= Z21) can
have either a positive or negative real part. (See Fig. 19 in Chapter 8 of
the ARRL Antenna Book.) Also, I2/I1 can be virtually anything, depending on
how the elements are fed. So it's entirely possible for the real part of
the coupled impedance to be negative and greater than the real part of the
self impedance, resulting in a negative feedpoint resistance.

Another way to look at the situation is to go back to the model I described
above, with the coupled voltage in series with the self impedance. The
feedpoint resistance will be negative when the real part of the coupled
voltage source is large enough to reverse the real part of the normal
feedpoint voltage polarity. That is, when the real part of the coupled
voltage is greater than the real part of I1*Z11. Then, the source
representing mutual coupling is providing enough power to supply Z11, and
has some left over.

When the feedpoint resistance is negative, the element is feeding power
into the feed system. It gets this power from coupling to the other
elements. Cecil recently sent me a model of a two-element array with one
element having a negative resistance. With EZNEC, I specified a total power
of 100 watts to be applied. The analysis shows that one element is
consuming 112 watts, and the other -12 watts. That is, 12 of the watts
going to one element are coming back from the other.

How do we handle these negative resistance elements? The answer is to
handle them like any other. A negative resistance simply means that the
angle of the impedance is between 90 and 270 degrees. There's nothing magic
about this. The formulas for impedance transformation of coaxial lines
don't care what the angle is, nor do the networks needed for producing the
right current ratios. The only thing which you might want to do differently
is SWR calculation. If for some reason you're interested in knowing the SWR
on the line feeding a negative-R element, you'll have to look at the
impedance at the end farthest away from the antenna. For these elements,
the source is at the antenna, and the "load", which determines the SWR, is
the impedance at the end away from the antenna. (This may not be an easy
problem, since the Z at that end will depend on all the other things
connected there.) After all is said and done, when the feedlines are
connected together and the feed system complete, the resistance looking
into the system will be positive. Count on it. (If you come up with a
negative value for the whole system, let me know right away! This would be
even a simpler way to make a perpetual motion machine than the one I
proposed on April 1 a couple of years ago.)

An interesting special case is where the coupled impedance is exactly the
negative of the self impedance. When this happens, the feedpoint impedance
is zero, and we can disconnect the feedline and short-circuit the feedpoint
without changing array operation. This is what a "parasitic" element is.

For more information about phased arrays, see Chapter 8 of the ARRL Antenna
Book.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:52 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!news.cerf.net!ent-img.com!wb6hqk!bart
From: [e-mail] (Bart Rowlett)
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Organization: wb6hqk
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 06:44:31 GMT
Lines: 31

Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> EZNEC gives an impedance of -2-j700 for one feedpoint
> using two phased dipoles fed 126 degrees apart. If I
> neutralize the capacitance with a parallel inductance,
> is the result -245K ohms?

Sounds about right.

>Is -245K ohms a higher or
> lower resistance than -2 ohms. My head hurts from
> thinking about it.

Hurts mine too :-).  In any case, it means you need to apply a
load of 245K ohms across the inductor (or 2 ohms in series) to
establish the desired element current and phase.  You can dissipate
the power in a resistor or use a fancy impedance/phase matching network
to transfer the 'excess' power back into the feed system.  Most amateur
and broadcast phased arrays do the latter but if it's only a few
percent of the total array power it's probably overall easier and
more reliable to just dissipate it into a suitable dummy load made for
the task. Longwire antennas such as rhombics and vee's are a bit different
but usually take the dissipative approach.

bart  wb6hqk




>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)Cecil:


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:52 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Negative Resistance
Date: 13 Nov 1996 04:16:36 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56bi34$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> EZNEC gives an impedance of -2-j700 for one feedpoint
> using two phased dipoles fed 126 degrees apart. If I
> neutralize the capacitance with a parallel inductance,
> is the result -245K ohms?

Cecil,
        It appears to me that in this particular case, if you put
a reactance of j700 in SERIES with a Q of about 350 the loss
resistance in htis inductor would just cancel the -2 ohms resistive
component in additon to the J component and the power fed to this
paracitic would disappear in loss in the inductor yielding 0 + j0
or a short circuit for matching!
Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:53 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: NVIS Antenna
From: [e-mail] (Cougercat)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 96 21:43:26 PDT
Organization: ProStar Plus Internet
NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.prostar.com
Lines: 10
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.prostar.com!prostar.com

I am interested in building some NVIS (Near Vertical radiation pattern)
antennas that will work for HF frequencies from 1.8 to 30 mhz approx.  Does
anybody have any ideas?  The antenna must be easily set up-able and
removable.  Please reply to:

[e-mail]

Thanks;

Jeff  WB7AHT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:54 1996
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From: "Rabid Rabbi" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: NVIS Antenna
Date: 15 Nov 1996 14:22:51 GMT
Organization: Washington University in St. Louis, MO USA
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <01bbd2fd$67a2c520$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.252.130.36
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Sure, just put up a dipole LESS than 1/4 wave above the ground.  Pattern is
near vertical.

73-KB0WXJ

> I am interested in building some NVIS (Near Vertical radiation pattern)
> antennas that will work for HF frequencies from 1.8 to 30 mhz approx.
Does
> anybody have any ideas?  The antenna must be easily set up-able and
> removable.  Please reply to:



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: MakeMyDay <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Palomar Field Strength Meter
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:30:25 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <56d0jh$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.146.131.8
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [e-mail]

Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In the latest "Worldradio", Kurt describes a new Palomar
>Field Strength Meter. He suggests that the device is so
>good that hams involved in mobile antenna "shootouts"
>might be able to standardize on a certain set of conditions
>and then be able to correlate results from various "shootouts".

I'd sure check first to see if there is any connection
between "Kurt" and the Palomar Company.....

<MakeMyDay>



>
>I'm wondering if hams might be able to standardize on a
>certain set of conditions and use this device to satisfy
>the FCC field strength safety requirement. At $200 each,
>it is something that most clubs could afford. Would the
>FCC accept measurements made with a $200 device?
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA  (not speaking for my employer)
>Old, Old Timers Club  [e-mail]




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:56 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Palomar Field Strength Meter
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 08:25:55 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In the latest "Worldradio", Kurt describes a new Palomar
Field Strength Meter. He suggests that the device is so
good that hams involved in mobile antenna "shootouts"
might be able to standardize on a certain set of conditions
and then be able to correlate results from various "shootouts".

I'm wondering if hams might be able to standardize on a
certain set of conditions and use this device to satisfy
the FCC field strength safety requirement. At $200 each,
it is something that most clubs could afford. Would the
FCC accept measurements made with a $200 device?

73, Cecil, W6RCA  (not speaking for my employer)
Old, Old Timers Club  [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Palomar Field Strength Meter
Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:36:54 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 20
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56d0jh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <56d0jh$[e-mail]>, MakeMyDay
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>In the latest "Worldradio", Kurt describes a new Palomar
>>Field Strength Meter. He suggests that the device is so
>>good that hams involved in mobile antenna "shootouts"
>>might be able to standardize on a certain set of conditions
>>and then be able to correlate results from various "shootouts".
>
>I'd sure check first to see if there is any connection
>between "Kurt" and the Palomar Company.....

I think the answer is in how the unit is calibrated, and how close they
are from unit to unit.

Are they scaled in Mv/m, dBM or  just plain 0 - 10?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:58 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!grunt.dejanews.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:26:43 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Parabolic dish
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Nov 11 04:53:16 1996 GMT
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31424 rec.radio.swap:94725

I'm looking for a 5 to 6 foot non-solid parabolic dish (like a rib type)
to use on 1296 mhz.  I have my own feeds to use.  Does anyone know of a
source for such??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:00:59 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Personal observations and attacks
Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:43:33 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 11
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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The FAQ list and net operating suggestions plainly state personal comments
are best left for E-mail, and out of public view.

Why does everyone suddenly insist on cluttering up a newsgroup with
non-group rubbish?

It would be nice to see rec.radio.amateur. ANTENNA  get back to antennas,
and away from person obsevations and attacks. Come on now, let's quit
playing around before this turns into 75 meters.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:00 1996
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From: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: phasing verticals
Date: 10 Nov 1996 22:13:36 GMT
Organization: ken cubilo electric
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <01bbcf54$9d5f6da0$[e-mail]>
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well finally got a decent phasing system in place here
now have one more question... i have a hf2v and a
hf6v vertical antenna has anyone out there sucessfully
phased the two together on 40 meters? and what if
any pattern distortion resulted by using the two antennas i suspose i could
just go do it.. but if someone
else already has and it didnt work out well i could just
go ahead and get another hf2v
tks we8w


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:01 1996
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From: "DAVE ABSHIRE" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: pneumatic antenna mast
Date: 9 Nov 1996 08:13:19 GMT
Organization: COMPUTER DIAGNOSTICS
Lines: 13
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Hi Mike
Not to give a smart $#@ answer but why not check with you local TV station
in the news dept and find out........Dave


Mike <[e-mail]> wrote in article <[e-mail]>...
> Hello to all. I am trying to locate a source for a pneumatic antenna
> mast, the type used on those media vans. If anyone can provide some help,

> I would really appreciate it. Thanks
> Mike K6YPB
> [e-mail]
>


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:01 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: "John C. Fakan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: pneumatic antenna mast
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 22:12:53 -0600
References: <[e-mail]> <01bbce15$d8abe680$574692cf@default>
Organization: U.S.S. COD Submarine
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DAVE ABSHIRE wrote:
>
> Hi Mike
> Not to give a smart $#@ answer but why not check with you local TV station
> in the news dept and find out........Dave
>
> Mike <[e-mail]> wrote in article <[e-mail]>...
> > Hello to all. I am trying to locate a source for a pneumatic antenna
> > mast, the type used on those media vans. If anyone can provide some help,
>
> > I would really appreciate it. Thanks
> > Mike K6YPB
> > [e-mail]
> >

Mike,

A source (maybe THE source) is:

WILL-BURT
169 S. Main Street
Orrville, Ohio 44667-0900
fax: [phone]
tel: [phone]

I just happened to have their literature on my desk when I saw your
request.

John



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:02 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Occolowitz John)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: pneumatic antenna mast
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 03:50:57 GMT
Organization: IndyNet - Indys Internet Gateway ([e-mail])
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <568kof$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <01bbce15$d8abe680$574692cf@default>
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"DAVE ABSHIRE" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hi Mike
>Not to give a smart $#@ answer but why not check with you local TV station
>in the news dept and find out........Dave


>Mike <[e-mail]> wrote in article <[e-mail]>...
>> Hello to all. I am trying to locate a source for a pneumatic antenna
>> mast, the type used on those media vans. If anyone can provide some help,

>> I would really appreciate it. Thanks
>> Mike K6YPB
>> [e-mail]
>>
RF Secialties at http://www.rfspec.com/rf.htm are agents for Will Burt
pneumatic masts.

John KB9MIE.




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:03 1996
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From: RobertRobinson <psykik@198.4.75.51>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Portable Mobile Whip for HF
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:06:52 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <328B196C.1817@198.4.75.51>
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At home, I run HF from the mobile with a multi-band trap antenna such as
the Hustler with resonators. The monstrosity is mounted to the tire rack
of my truck.

I am going to Florida in a week and half for vacation and want to run HF
from the rental car (probably a Cavalier).  I thought of bringing the HF
antenna, but it'll be difficult to pack.  Due to its mass, it would be
difficult to mount it to the car, such as via a trunk lip mount.  The 4
magnet mount was advised against.

I am willing to take a small HF tuner with me, so I am looking for a
military surplus collapsable whip, but can't seem to find a retailer who
has them.  Any hints?

Worst case scenario, I will bring a 10 meter mag mount coil loaded
antenna and use the tuner for that.

Thanks...
73 de KB2PSM


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:04 1996
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From: Dick Flanagan <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Portable Mobile Whip for HF
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:39:07 -0700
Organization: Libelle Productions, Inc., Minden, Nevada USA
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <328B196C.1817@198.4.75.51>
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I apologize for the post, but Mr. Robinson's e-mail address is invalid:

RobertRobinson wrote:
>
> I am willing to take a small HF tuner with me, so I am looking for a
> military surplus collapsable whip, but can't seem to find a retailer who
> has them.  Any hints?

No hints, but an alternative.  I have a Outbacker Junior, 4 ft, 200
watts.  80-10 meters, excellent condition.  $150 shipped.  It is small
enough it won't overly stress a trunk mount and it will tune all bands
without an external tuner.

Dick
1-702-267-4900
--
Dick Flanagan W6OLD CFII ([e-mail]) Minden, Nevada


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:05 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Power Divider Necessary?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 15:43:48 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55tgg3$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

As I look at the results (on
paper) with and without a splitter in a phased array, they actually made
systems
looked at worse instead of better.

Has anyone analyzed arrays in detail with and without them, or measured
them?

I am also puzzled by the use of the name "Wilkinsen" to describe what we
always referred to as a "magic T" in CATV product design. Am I missing
something here?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:06 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Gordon Gekko)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Problem tuning random wire...help!
Date: 12 Nov 1996 08:02:46 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <569av6$[e-mail]>
References: <56910g$[e-mail]>
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In article <56910g$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Gordon Gekko) wrote:
>
>
>Hi!  I have a TS-820, an AT-180 tuner, and a newly installed
>100 foot long, 30' high random wire that is well insulated from
>the supports.  Feeder is simply a hunk of 14ga insulated wire
>run to the rig.  I have a 'decent' ground (attachment to the
>ground rod below the power panel 10' from the rig outside).
>
>Problem?  I can't get the 820 to load properly with the tuner
>into this antenna.  In the past, I have used random wires and
>was able to load into them like crazy (different rigs), and make the inline
>SWR meter 'think' the antenna was right on resonance.  But all
>I can get now is a 'hot' load (high standing RF in the shack,
>and the SWR meter reads HIGHER in the 'ref' mode than in the
>'fwd' mode).  My signal seems to get out ok, and the rig
>appears to load reasonable well, but I am concerned that I'm
>not getting that tight 'feel' when the tuner is able to make
>the whole thing resonate. The loading process seems mushy for
>some reason.  I have tried adding 20 or 30 feet of wire to the end
>to see if changing the resonant frequency would help, but no change.
>
>This problem seems prevalent on all of the low bands.  Since 20, 15, and
>10 are so dead I haven't tried too much there yet (plus I have vertical
>for the upper bands).  Do I need a larger inductance/capacitance than
>the AT-180 is providing? Am I not doin something right?  What is the
>best way to make this work?
>
>Any ideas on what I may be doing wrong?
>


Found my problem!  I had a bad diode in the tuner SWR meter and was just
getting eroneous results.  All is in fact well, and I am now loading
just as I should.

Thanks to those who responded.

Dave [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Gordon Gekko)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Problem tuning random wire...help!
Date: 12 Nov 1996 05:12:48 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <56910g$[e-mail]>
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Hi!  I have a TS-820, an AT-180 tuner, and a newly installed
100 foot long, 30' high random wire that is well insulated from
the supports.  Feeder is simply a hunk of 14ga insulated wire
run to the rig.  I have a 'decent' ground (attachment to the
ground rod below the power panel 10' from the rig outside).

Problem?  I can't get the 820 to load properly with the tuner
into this antenna.  In the past, I have used random wires and
was able to load into them like crazy (different rigs), and make the inline
SWR meter 'think' the antenna was right on resonance.  But all
I can get now is a 'hot' load (high standing RF in the shack,
and the SWR meter reads HIGHER in the 'ref' mode than in the
'fwd' mode).  My signal seems to get out ok, and the rig
appears to load reasonable well, but I am concerned that I'm
not getting that tight 'feel' when the tuner is able to make
the whole thing resonate. The loading process seems mushy for
some reason.  I have tried adding 20 or 30 feet of wire to the end
to see if changing the resonant frequency would help, but no change.

This problem seems prevalent on all of the low bands.  Since 20, 15, and
10 are so dead I haven't tried too much there yet (plus I have vertical
for the upper bands).  Do I need a larger inductance/capacitance than
the AT-180 is providing? Am I not doin something right?  What is the
best way to make this work?

Any ideas on what I may be doing wrong?


email replies to [e-mail], as I don't check the group
every day.

Thanks

1Dave
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:09 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Problem tuning random wire...help!
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:52:07 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56910g$[e-mail]>
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Gordon Gekko wrote:
> I have... a newly installed 100 foot long, 30' high random
> wire...

Hi Gordon, it would be interesting if you could perform an
experiment. Bring 105ft of additional wire from the far end
of your "long-wire" back to the shack and feed the two wires
through a 1:1 choke. This would turn your long-wire into a
loop resonant about 4.3 MHz. Making it a little longer would
resonate it close to 75m and be useful on 40m/20m/15m/10m.

Turning it into a triangular loop would make it similar to
the 40m triangle I have. Works/loads great.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:10 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Cj N1WKO)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad questions
Date: 14 Nov 96 07:31:12 EST
Organization: Connecticut State University System
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ccsua.ctstateu.edu

I'm planning on taking part in some fox hunts this winter (a local club has on
e
every Sunday during the winter months), and wanted to get some info about quad
antennae.  Some of the obvious questions I have already answered, like tuning
the antenna to the input freq of the repeater, etc.  Want I want to know is,
with a quad, is it the same principle as a Yagi in that the more elements for
directors, the more direction sensitive the antenna?  And do the directors hav
e
to be smaller than the driver?  Would adding more than one reflector help any?

How close do you have to be before the DF properties of a quad are useless?
Am I asking totally inane questions?

-73
-Cj

--
There is a theory that states, "If the answer to the question of life, the
universe, and everything and the question itself were known simutaniously, the
universe would cease to exist as we know it.  There is another theory that thi
s
has already happened. -Douglas Adams, "So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish"


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:11 1996
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From: "Joseph B. Bitner" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Question about tuning a stacked array
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 05:01:38 GMT
Organization: Berg Electronics
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mport11.penn.com
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

To whom this may concern:

Can anyone offer some advise on tuning a stacked array?  I have two 70cm 11
element Cushcraft antennas that I want to stack side by side.  I am
wondering how to tune them.

Thanks, Joe / N3IES



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul J. Piercey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Questions: Shakespeare HF vertical.
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 20:12:11 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <56iiqp$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: terra.nlnet.nf.ca
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

Howdy,

I am the recipient of a Shakespeare Model 390 fibreglas HF vertical (marine??)

antenna. I have a few questions about it as there was no manual.

1. Does anyone have a manual or spec sheet for this particular model? In lieu
of that, is there a Shakespeare web page or email address?

2. What is the frequency range of it?

3. It had a stub of coax still attached (centre conductor only) to the
feedpoint but there was no apparent attachment of the shield. How is it fed?

4. Does it need radials? Would radials make the antenna more efficient?

I'd appreciate any help on this thing as our club would like to get it
operational at our club station for the winter months. Please email me any
info direct to my address below.

73.

============================================================================
Paul J. Piercey (VO1HE)
Agent - The Mutual Group

President - Society of Newfoundland Radio Amateurs
Assistant Director, Avalon - Radio Amateurs of Canada

VO1HE@VO1AAA.#ENF.NF.CAN.NOAM
[e-mail]
============================================================================


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:13 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: R5 on 80 meters
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:52:03 GMT
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <565fe0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-206-170-0-172.snfc21.pacbell.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

  My R5 (roof mounted) has decided to bless me with 80 meters. It has
a decent SWR over a 150 khz segment, and lots of band activity over
the entire band. I am not using a tuner. It simply works as it does on
the bands it was designed for. My question is, has anyone else
experienced this phenomenum, and more importantly,  am I in danger of
burning out the expensive  coupling  black box. Thanks



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: R5 on 80 meters
Date: 14 Nov 1996 18:21:14 GMT
Organization: USAF Rome Laboratory
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56fnuq$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ce7.ce.rl.af.mil

In message <565fe0$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:

>  My R5 (roof mounted) has decided to bless me with 80 meters. It has
>a decent SWR over a 150 khz segment, and lots of band activity over
>the entire band. I am not using a tuner. It simply works as it does on
>the bands it was designed for. My question is, has anyone else
>experienced this phenomenum, and more importantly,  am I in danger of
>burning out the expensive  coupling  black box. Thanks
>

According to the Cushcraft factory rep I spoke with at Dayton on this subject;
you have an excellent chance of overheating the balun that is within the
"expensive black box" when operating at frequencies well below specified range
.
Then he chuckled and said "Well if you keep your transmissions short, at low
power, and during cold weather, you may get away with it."

Be careful, and 73.

Al    W2JUV



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (John Lundgren)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,sci.electronics.misc,alt.electronics.analog.vlsi,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: Re: reference for make a device folowing a radio signal
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,sci.electronics.misc,alt.electronics.analog.vlsi,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Date: 15 Nov 1996 00:03:58 GMT
Organization: Delta Internet Services, Anaheim, CA
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <56gc1e$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31572 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118197 sci.electronics.misc:17299 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21098

Eric Gagnon ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I want to make some device able to folow radio signal in 1/4 mile

: distance


: if the signal is backward the receiver lit LED backward

: if the signal is forward the receiver lit LED foward

: if the signal is from left lit left LED

: and the same for right.



: some people know how to make that device.

: or where can i find a documentation on this?



: Somebody say is a doppler RDF receivers.

I said that it's a doppler RDF receiver.  I also said that the newsgroup
to find more information is the rec.radio.amateur.homebrew or similar
ham newsgroup.


: Tanks for rapid respond.

--
#===================================================================#
|    John Lundgren - Elec Tech - Info Tech Svcs. |    jlundgre@     |
|    Rancho Santiago Community College District  |   deltanet.com   |
|     17th St at Bristol \ Santa Ana, CA 92706   | http://www.rancho|
| My opinions are my own, and not my employer's. |    .cc.ca.us     |
|   Most FAQs are available through Thomas Fine's WWW FAQ archive:  |
|http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu:80/hypertext/faq/usenet/FAQ-List.html|
|     "Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times...  keep on swinging."      |
|     says the lid on the jar of Laredo & Lefty's Picante Salsa     |
!  You MAY NOT use my email address for unsolicited Email or lists! !
#======P=G=P==k=e=y==a=v=a=i=l=a=b=l=e==u=p=o=n==r=e=q=u=e=s=t======#



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!news.quebectel.com!root
From: Eric Gagnon <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,sci.electronics.misc,alt.electronics.analog.vlsi,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: reference for make a device folowing a radio signal
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:05:30 -0500
Organization: Quebec Telephone
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sie-182-16.sie.qc.ca
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31595 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118214 sci.electronics.misc:17315 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21111

I want to make some device able to folow radio signal in 1/4 mile

distance





if the signal is backward the receiver lit LED backward

if the signal is forward the receiver lit LED foward

if the signal is from left lit left LED

and the same for right.



some people know how to make that device.

or where can i find a documentation on this?



Somebody say is a doppler RDF receivers.



Tanks for rapid respond.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!venus.sun.com!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!newsworthy.West.Sun.COM!mandalay!aga
From: [e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RF Feedback on 75 Meters
Date: 12 Nov 1996 23:44:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56b259$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mandalay.west.sun.com

   It seems that I have an RF feedback problem with my solid state transceiver
 only
on 75 meters. I use a boom headset type of mic (electret). It works fine on al
l
bands except 75 when I can hear "Crackling" or feedback in the headset. When t
his
happens I get bad audio reports and "Sounds like RF feedback".

   The cabling in the headset to the xcvr is shielded and twisted and I have a
dd-
itionally added bypass caps on both the mic and hedphones at the plug and at e
ach
unit. I also added a ferrite filter to the lead.

   My antenna is a rather ordinary inverted vee at about 40 feet, fed with a b
alun
and drooping to no less than 15 feet above ground. The shack is located in the
basement. When I used an antenna tuner I had rf in the shack (Matchbox + 105ft
 flat
top) but I did not expect such with coax and a near 1:1 match in the phone ban
d.

   My ground is admittedly somewhat less than ideal with a 15 foot #10 copper
wire
to a cold water pipe boded to a ground rod.

   I also tried bypassing the 13.8 vdc input lines to no avail. The problem ha
s
perhaps diminished but is still with me.

   Am I missing something here?


                                                   TIA Tony WA6LZH




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:18 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RF Feedback on 75 Meters
Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:08:53 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56b259$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hi Tony--

Although the RF might be getting back via the power lines, the most likely
culpret is the outer surface of your feedline--balun or not.  I had a
similar problem when using my amplifier on 75, and solved it by installing
some ferrite sleeves on the coax where it eneterd the house (near the
radio).  A poor ground probably won't help much at RF frequencies, and may
even make it worse by providing additional pickup.  Also, if your feedline
doubles back under one leg of the dipole at fairly close spacing, I
suspect the outer surface of line will try to become a parasitic
element--even if it is isolated at the feedpoint by the balun (someone
correct me if I'm wrong about this).  Try the beads.  If that doesn't
work, you may have to look at the realtionship between the radiator and
the feed.

Rick K1BQT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:18 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RF Feedback on 75 Meters
Date: 13 Nov 1996 13:22:24 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 27
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56b259$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <56b259$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Tony Angerame - Sun SSE) writes:

>   It seems that I have an RF feedback problem with my solid state
>transceiver only
>on 75 meters. I use a boom headset type of mic (electret). It works fine
on
>all
>bands except 75 when I can hear "Crackling" or feedback in the headset.
When
>this
>happens I get bad audio reports and "Sounds like RF feedback".
>
>   The cabling in the headset to the xcvr is shielded and twisted and I
have
>add-
>itionally added bypass caps on both the mic and hedphones at the plug and
at
>each
>unit. I also added a ferrite filter to the lead.
>
>

Sounds like a case where you need to look elsewhere. Do you have the
problem with the headphones unplugged, and another mic plugged in?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!venus.sun.com!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!newsworthy.West.Sun.COM!mandalay!aga
From: [e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RF Feedback on 75 Meters
Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:57:43 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56cum7$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mandalay.west.sun.com

Sounds like a case where you need to look elsewhere. Do you have the
problem with the headphones unplugged, and another mic plugged in?

73 Tom


The problem does not occur with the stock hand mic.




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RF Feedback on 75 Meters
Date: 14 Nov 1996 17:35:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56fl97$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mandalay.west.sun.com


Actually it looks like this is solved. Yesterday I
installed a 20ft length of RG-58 coiled up in an 8 inch loop at the base of
my mast on the roof. I now measure zip (0) on the feedline braid. I installed
a couple of ferrites on the in shack part of the feedline and on the mic and
power leads. Just because I allready bought them. No feedback or rf of any
kind on the air or on the scope. I gess I just never operated so much 75
meters before. Now that sunsots are low and I have a new rig it's been lot's
of fun.  Thanks for the help from everyone.


                                                Tony



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!ifwtech.demon.co.uk!G3SEK
From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RF Feedback on 75 Meters
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:44:09 +0000
Organization: IFW Technical Services
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <$[e-mail]>
References: <56b259$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
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Tony Angerame wrote:
>   It seems that I have an RF feedback problem with my solid state transceive
r
>only
>on 75 meters. I use a boom headset type of mic (electret). It works fine on a
ll
>bands except 75 when I can hear "Crackling" or feedback in the headset. When
>this
>happens I get bad audio reports and "Sounds like RF feedback".

If you do have unwanted RF crawling around the shack, a good way to
trace it is to use a clip-on RF current meter to see which conductors
are affected, and how badly. Check every conductor including coaxial
leads (the meter shows the outer-surface current, not what's inside).
Then try adding large clip-on ferrite beads, ferrite rings etc, and keep
checking the meter to see what effect they have.

The clip-on current meter is a very good way to trace the cause and find
a cure.


73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.cybercomm.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Ron)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: SandwichLoop, What is?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:57:40 GMT
Organization: CyberComm Online Services
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <5629p2$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: sl-006.sl.cybercomm.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hello,
Could someone tell me what a SandwichLoop antenna is?
Could you E-Mail me the plans or diagram to Build a SandwichLoop using
a G5RV?


Thank-You
73
Ron C




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: SandwichLoop, What is?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 03:48:41 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <568r8r$[e-mail]>
References: <5629p2$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Server-Date: 12 Nov 1996 03:34:51 GMT
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[e-mail] (Ron) wrote:

>Hello,
>Could someone tell me what a SandwichLoop antenna is?
>Could you E-Mail me the plans or diagram to Build a SandwichLoop using
>a G5RV?


>Thank-You
>73
>Ron C

Jim at AntennasWest has a short article on the sandwich loop.  No it
is not a G5RV.   Send me an address via E-Mail and I'll send you a
copy.

Dave K4JRB
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Screwdriver question
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 02:50:36 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <563g21$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip185.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
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[e-mail] (Dick Hughes) wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Nov 96 08:51:06 -0500, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
>wrote:

>>Does the screwdriver mobile antenna short out the
>>unused turns of the coil or just leave them open
>>circuited? I've heard one gets losses from a
>>shorted coil and high voltages from an open
>>coil.
>>
>>thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

>Cecil -

>I can quote you what Don Johnson said about it.

>"As the lower turns disappear into the lower mast they become an
>integral part of that mast.  NO! - there are NO shorted turns --they
>are not turns anymore.  The extremely high capacity between the
>submerged turns and the lower mast at RF frequencies effectively ties
>them together."

>There you have it from the creator in his book, "40+5 Years of HF
>Mobileering."

>Dick Hughes - W6CCD

Cecil,

    Dick is right.  The shorted turns are inside the lower mast which
takes them out of the picture.  I was more concerned with the loss
where the copper fingers make contact with the coil, but careful
experiments have shown that the antenna compares favorably with a
bugcatcher with no shorted turns.
    There was a good "bake off" between a few low loss designs and the
High Sierra screwdriver antenna in one of the ARRL antenna
compendiums.

dudley WA1X /m (now also /8)




From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:25 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: shielding my house
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:05:00 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <563gt1$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbbe07$cbf1f1a0$5c203fce@a-greggd>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip185.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 10 Nov 1996 03:07:13 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Gregg Daugherty" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Can anyone advise on how, or sources of info for shielding my kids bedrooms
>from the adjacent cell tower transmitter?  I'm think metal or foil on the
>walls, ???

Aluminum siding.

dudley WA1X/8



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.rain.net!europa104.europa.com
From: "Frank A. Adrian" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: shielding my house
Date: 10 Nov 96 14:37:53 GMT
Organization: ancar technology
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <01bbcf15$3c0f0220$680ca3ce@home>
References: <01bbbec4$76d41aa0$af203fce@a-greggd> <54snuh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: atheria.europa.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155



PTracy <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<54snuh$[e-mail]>...
> In article <01bbbec4$76d41aa0$af203fce@a-greggd>, "Gregg Daugherty"
> <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> >I'm trying to avoid exposing young children to possible adverse impact
> from
> >microwave radiation from cell towers.  Given there are no studies of the
> >effects of 900 mhz over long periods of time, I either move or somehow
> >shield my kids.
>
> Who said it's "adverse"?  Some wing-nut wearing Birkenstocks on the local
> news?

Now, now.  There's no need to disparage a nice comfortable shoe, just
because you don't agree with the politics or (psuedo-)scientific beliefs of
some of their wearers.  Also, I just bought some wing nuts yesterday, and I
doubt that they are capable of saying anything (even though you may
consider that a vast improvement over what you see on the local news).

Best regards,
Frank A. Adrian
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!clicnet!news.clic.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!news.total.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Joe Karthaus)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: shortwave listening
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:58:07 GMT
Organization: news.total.net
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <568sls$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <532d82$[e-mail]> <a57cc$14182.3c9@NEWS>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: outlands2.magic.ca
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[e-mail] (Jonathan Helis) wrote:

>[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) wrote:


>>You wrote:
>>>
>>>can anyone tell some good sw frequencies to listen to?
>>>such as pirate radio,etc.....
>>>
>>>i was told there is some neat stuff on there but i can`t seem to find
>>>some of it>         your  suggestions are much appreciated.
>>>
>>>                    later
>>>                           N3TVV

>>    Pirate SW radio is non-existent now.  Why the interest in "pirate"?

>>    Pirate FM is the hot thing right now.  You may have some in your
>>area,
>>depending on how anarchistic your population is.  These are usually
>>less than 1 watt and aimed at immediate locale (city districts).  These
>>come and go at a whim for lack of audience.

>According to Popular Communications, there's alot of Pirate activity
>going on right now.  They reccommend checking 6955 khz on weekends for
>activity.  Also check out alt.radio.pirate or rec.radio.shortwave for
>more info.

>73,

>Jonathan Helis, KB5IAV
>Baton Rouge, Lousiana, USA

>[e-mail]


Hi Jonathan, check out 6955 kHz weekends mostly.
Also rec.radio.shortwave keeps you informed.  73 joe k.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!news.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: Straptenna
Date: 10 Nov 1996 20:02:51 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

There is an interesting press release on a SONY portable TV with a
'straptenna'. Goes around the neck like a dog collar. Any comments on how
it works>

(P.S. go onto newssearch on aol and do 'antenna' and you'll see it; don't
have the ability to bring up from here).

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:29 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Straptenna
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:16:48 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.208.126
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> There is an interesting press release on a SONY portable TV with a
> 'straptenna'. Goes around the neck like a dog collar. Any comments on how
> it works>
>
> (P.S. go onto newssearch on aol and do 'antenna' and you'll see it; don't
> have the ability to bring up from here).
>
> 73
> Chip N1IR


The RF will penetrate your neck and you'll die of cancer.
I know how deadly this RF is cause i put a cat in a microwave
and it died of cancer , i think .


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!zappa.northnet.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Darron R. Birgenheier)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: SWL and broadcast AM antenna questions
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:04:19 GMT
Organization: DRB Gunsmithing
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <562h3g$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-14.lowville.northnet.org
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Howdy all,

        I'm interested in SWL and broadcast AM reception, and thought this would be a
n
appropriate forum to ask some questions.
        I'm using a Realistic DX-440 SW/SSB/AM/FM receiver. Last year I put up a
longwire antenna. I used a 70 foot piece of uninsulated 14 gauge 7 strand
copper wire with mini-egg insulators on both ends. One end is attached to the
peak of my house under the eave, the other is attached to a tree about 80 feet
away. I used some insulated lead in wire (about 18 gauge) which I wrapped
around the antenna a couple inches from the end attached to the house, then
soldered the connection. The lead in wire runs into the center (antenna)
terminal on the external antenna connector on my receiver. I hammered in an
eight foot ground rod from which I ran a wire to the outer (ground) terminal o
n
the external antenna connector on my receiver.
        The antenna worked quite well at first on all bands, including FM (I use the
FM
stereo portion of my receiver to drive an external amplifier and speakers).
Recently, however, the signal strength has gone way down. I had originally
installed the end of the antenna to the tree with a section of rope and a
rubber strap, hoping to eliminate breakage of the wire when the tree moves in
the wind. I noticed that the antenna has been sagging quite a bit recently, so
I changed the system of attachment to the tree. I now use a rope attached to
the egg insulator that runs through a pulley attached to the tree. To the othe
r
end of the rope I have attached a concrete block which hangs down along the
tree, applying contant tension to the antenna wire no matter how the tree
moves. This made no difference in my reception.
        The antenna wire has tarnished, and is now dark in color. Could this affect m
y
reception? Would insulated wire that won't corrode be preferable? This Summer
we've built a large metal roofed garage on the property, but it's not very
close to the antenna, and my reception is bad in all directions, not just
toward the garage.
        I know that having a longwire antenna cut to match the wavelength of the
station you want to listen to is desirable. If wrapping the antenna wire aroun
d
insulators to secure it, does the amount wrapped around get included in the
length to be measured, or should the measurement be just on the portion of the
wire that is straight between the insulators? What is the formula for
converting frequency to wavelength? Is a full wavelength ideal for antenna
length when possible? Are longwire antennas directional, and if so, should one
end of the wire point at the station desired, or should it be pointed 90
degrees away? How about slope? Does elevating one end of the wire change the
directional properties, and how so?
        Is it better to attach the lead in wire to the center of the antenna, or is
attachment to one end adequate? Would a coaxial lead in cable be preferable to
the single insulated wire I've been using? If using coax, should just the
center conductor be attached to the antenna, leaving the outer braid as a
shield? Is wrapping the center conductor around the antenna wire adequate, or
should some other means of attachment be used?
        I've been reading about "Beverage" antennas, and am quite interested. I have
lots of room on my property. I've not been able to find any plans, though, onl
y
vague or highly technical references to the type. Is there a URL somewhere wit
h
a decent plan for building such an antenna?
        I live in the Adirondack Mountains at an elevation of about 1250 feet. There
are no other houses nearby, so interference should be limited.
        Thanks for any help offered.

Darron R. Birgenheier
Brantingham, NY
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:32 1996
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From: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: T2FD antenna
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:56:00 -0600
Organization: ABC Radio Network Engineering - Dallas
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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John Charles wrote:
>
> Query from a SWL;
>
> I've just read the details concerning the building of the T2FD antenna
> in the November issue of Short Wave Magazine (Decode section) and was
> wondering if my reception on 10 through 40m ham bands would improve over
> what I get from using my present end fed 66 foot long wire.
>
> It would be nice to have some idea before buying the necessary
> materials, etc., especially to hear from anyone who may have already
> tried it out.
>
> Best wishes, John
> --
> John Charles    [e-mail]

To improve reception on the lower HF bands DO NOT use a T2FD...I have
built and used one on the amateur bands for years, doing tests to study
signal reports and SWR. Then W8JK, the designer of several antennas and a
doctor in EE, had a note in QST sometime back on it comparing it with a
10 Mhz dipole.....his findings and mine were very close and Im sure his
were more to scientific realities than mine were....

The T2FD is a POOR performer below 10 Mhz...in fact on 80 or 40 Mtrs, a
1/2wave diople there beats the T2FD by as much as 10-20 db!!!!!

Yes, it hears local computer noise less because it is a folded dipole
with a RESISTOR on the top...it hears a LOT less in fact....true for SWR
matching and TX being happy, it works great in that respect BUT radiation
efficiency is poor also...

If you want to improve things over a end fed antenna, put up as big a
dipole as you can, feed it with Rg58/59 or what have you and enjoy! The
SWR is not to be concerned with on RX or on HF (I have run an antenna on
80 mtrs with 20:1 SWR and found it no better when I put a matching coil
in series and the SWR came down to 2:1 !)...the coax will give you the
shielding you need from local computer noise and the longer you can make
the dipole the better....you COULD use a end fed long wire and feed it
with coax as well.....Ground the shield on the antenna side to earth
ground...try to make this as low a ground as possible thereby increasing
the antenna efficiency!...you may wish to put radials down (just DONT use
a ground rod or water pipe in the ground.....this is NOT an acceptable
ground for RF) to help in the ground losses....more is better, the most
you can put down is best! but anything is better than NOTHING!

A tuning ckt at the rcvr is ok (when using an endfed) but not really
needed if the rcvr is designed for a coaxial input....

73
Chris
WB5ITT


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:33 1996
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From: [e-mail](David M. Arruzza)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Type UG and NORD antennas
Date: 10 Nov 1996 03:17:03 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <563hff$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nhv-ct1-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Nov 09  9:17:03 PM CST 1996


Does anyone have information..more than Paul Lee's book " Vertical
Anteena Handbook", on these types on antennas.

Has anyone ever run one, either amateur or military.

thanks,
Dave WA1UUD


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Brett Coningham)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF Log Periodic Antenna
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:45:45 GMT
Organization: Southwest Cyberport
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <3271498a.2910103@204.127.3.4>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp53.swcp.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

[e-mail] (Otulp) wrote:

>Hi,
>I'm trying to design a Log Periodic Antenna
>Frequency range= 300-500 MHz
>Number of Elements= 10
>
>Is there a free program that will generate the element spacings out
>there in the World Wide Web?...TIA
>

I have had an LPDA design program on my web site for a while now,
(it is free), and so far have had no negative feedback about it.  You
are welcome to get a copy from :

        http://www.swcp.com/~ab5p/software.html

There are two versions, one an older DOS-version, and the second
my first attempt at a Windows version, using Visual Basic, and it is
still a work in progress, but usable.  The latter also has an improved
algorithm for getting the best performance for a given boom length.
The basis for these programs are the design equations found in recent
ARRL Antenna Handbooks.

I would appreciate any feedback (positive OR negative) about
the Windows version, which I intend to continue to improve.  I have
not seen any other program which lets you specify a desired
maximum boom length, and then determines the optimum design
for you, to maximize Tau and Sigma.

73,
Brett AB5P


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:34 1996
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From: "Gerhart Hlawatsch" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF Log Periodic Antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:44:17 +0100
Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster, Germany
Lines: 30
Sender: "Gerhart Hlawatsch" <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <3271498a.2910103@204.127.3.4> <3276aceb.5773432@204.127.3.4> <3276aec6.6248526@204.127.3.4>
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Bill the PotHead wrote:
>
> On Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:21:32 GMT, [e-mail] (Bill the
> PotHead) wrote:
>
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>I'm trying to design a Log Periodic Antenna
> >>Frequency range= 300-500 MHz
> >>Number of Elements= 10
> >>
> >>Is there a free program that will generate the element spacings out
> >>there in the World Wide Web?...TIA
> >>
> >
> >www.arrl.org
> >
> >you can buy The ARRL Antenna Handbook 17th Edition for $30.00
> >Chapter 10 covers Log Periodic Array...design procedure included,
> >excellent book!
>
> Another excellent book is Log Periodic Antenna Design, by Smith
> Electronics, their located in Cleveland Ohio, this book is $29.00
> Later doodz...

Can you give more information on Smith Electronics or an ISBN no.
of the book?

Regards, Gerhart
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:36 1996
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From: [e-mail]   (Jon Schmidt)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF Log Periodic Antenna
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:42:27 GMT
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <56d1a3$1hkq$[e-mail]>
References: <3271498a.2910103@204.127.3.4> <3276aceb.5773432@204.127.3.4> <3276aec6.6248526@204.127.3.4> <[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, "Gerhart Hlawatsch" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Bill the PotHead wrote:
>> Another excellent book is Log Periodic Antenna Design, by Smith
>> Electronics, their located in Cleveland Ohio, this book is $29.00
>> Later doodz...
>
>Can you give more information on Smith Electronics or an ISBN no.
>of the book?

As far as I can tell, this book has no ISBN and is available only
directly from:

Carl E. Smith Electronics
8200 Snowville Road
Brecksville, OH 44141

Phone: [phone]

The current price is $29.50 plus $4.00 for shipping within USA.
Outside USA, you must "include cost of postage for orders outside
the U.S. or you will be invoiced for the difference".  Check or
money order must be in U.S. dollars.

The book was last updated in 1979, but most of the material was
written in 1966.  It is oriented primarily toward designers of high
power HF transmitting antennas.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:37 1996
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From: Gary Robison <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:15:29 +0000
Organization: CrossLink Internet Services
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56f3m0$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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John Boyer wrote:
>
> Gary Robison ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : Looking for info on UHF slot type antenna. To be used for an ATV
> : repeater
> : on 439 Mhz.

>
> Why a slot? Do you really want to go hp?
> J.

I'm not sure just what I want sort of feeling the waters. We have a
Beacon up now running 50 watts. The antenna is a Diamond 700. It seems
to work ok but the group
wanted to look around to see what else we could use. Somebody said to
check on a slot type so I did.

Do you want to suggest some other type. We need to stay vertical, 45
miles to the west there is another repeater and right now there is no
trouble.

Gary


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:38 1996
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From: Gary Robison <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:19:13 +0000
Organization: CrossLink Internet Services
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56f96f$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Jim Flanders wrote:
>
> There is a full-wave slot antenna in one of my antenna books.  It was
> called a "stove pipe hat".  I'll try to find it this weekend.  What I
> remember is it was a piece of sheet metal wrapped around to form an 8"
> diameter pipe with about a 1" gap (I'm not sure of this).  It was fed
> in the middle.  I think the TI repeater in Dallas uses a slot for ATV.
> I'll check that out also.
> Regards
>    Jim W0oog/5
>


Ok thanks Jim that would be great! I will look forward to hearing about
it.

Gary


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:58:30 -0600
Organization: United States Internet, Inc.
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56f96f$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: col-max66.dynamic.usit.net

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

> Jim Flanders wrote:
> >
> > There is a full-wave slot antenna in one of my antenna books.  It was
> > called a "stove pipe hat".  I'll try to find it this weekend.  What I
> > remember is it was a piece of sheet metal wrapped around to form an 8"
> > diameter pipe with about a 1" gap (I'm not sure of this).  It was fed
> > in the middle.  I think the TI repeater in Dallas uses a slot for ATV.
> > I'll check that out also.
> > Regards
> >    Jim W0oog/5
> >
>
>
> Ok thanks Jim that would be great! I will look forward to hearing about
> it.
>
> Gary

If I remember correctly about a year ago there was an article in QST or CQ
of one of these antennas that was made from a small metal garbage can
(kitchen size).

Charles   KD4HHX


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:39 1996
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From: Gary Robison <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: UHF slot antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:15:57 +0000
Organization: CrossLink Internet Services
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.30.238.185
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Looking for info on UHF slot type antenna. To be used for an ATV
repeater
on 439 Mhz.

Ideas?

Comments

Thanks

Gary
K3SJX
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (John Boyer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:35:12 GMT
Organization: British Broadcasting Corporation, UK
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <56f3m0$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 132.185.128.121
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Gary Robison ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Looking for info on UHF slot type antenna. To be used for an ATV
: repeater
: on 439 Mhz.
:
: Ideas?
:
: Comments
:
: Thanks
:
: Gary
: K3SJX
: [e-mail]
: [e-mail]


Why a slot? Do you really want to go hp?
J.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Flanders)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: 14 Nov 1996 14:09:19 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments @ Sherman
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <56f96f$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: shtip114.dseg.ti.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

There is a full-wave slot antenna in one of my antenna books.  It was
called a "stove pipe hat".  I'll try to find it this weekend.  What I
remember is it was a piece of sheet metal wrapped around to form an 8"
diameter pipe with about a 1" gap (I'm not sure of this).  It was fed
in the middle.  I think the TI repeater in Dallas uses a slot for ATV.
I'll check that out also.
Regards
   Jim W0oog/5


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Looking for info on UHF slot type antenna. To be used for an ATV
>repeater
>on 439 Mhz.
>
>Ideas?
>
>Comments
>
>Thanks
>
>Gary
>K3SJX
>[e-mail]
>[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:42 1996
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From: Gary Robison <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:56:40 +0000
Organization: CrossLink Internet Services
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56f96f$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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>
> If I remember correctly about a year ago there was an article in QST or CQ
> of one of these antennas that was made from a small metal garbage can
> (kitchen size).
>
> Charles   KD4HHX


Thanks Charles I give that a look. I look QST over pretty close but
maybe I missed that one.

Gary K3SJX


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (tyler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Unobtrusive scanning antenna
Date: 9 Nov 1996 02:36:37 GMT
Organization: Your Organization
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <560qnl$n52$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Looking for advice on a unobtrusive, full-range (30-1000 MHz) scanning
>antenna.  Due to restrictions in my development, I'd like to stay away
>from a discone because of their visibility.
>
>The antenna will be mounted in the clear approx. 25' from the ground.
>I'm currently using a low price RS antenna  (cat #20-176).
>
>One antenna I'm considering is the RS All-Band Ground Plane (cat
>#20-014).

How are you going to hide a ground plane 25' in the air when you can't hide a
discone 25' in the air?  Are you going to paint it black? Hide it in a tree?
The Ground plane is probably your next best choice.  Does your devolopment
allow TV antennas or no antennas at all?  If they allow tv antennas, hook your

scanner up to one of those vertically polarized.  It will be directional, but
it will work.



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:44 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!insync!news.azstarnet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!symbios.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Lloyd Harmon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: VHF Big Wheel
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:47:26 GMT
Organization: Symbios Logic
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <56a2gi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lharmonpc.co.symbios.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82



I am building a Big Wheel 2 meter horizontal antenna as described in
the 1972 Radio Amateur's VHF Manual.  Schematicly the antenna is three
one wave length loops in parallel.  The low feed impedance is raised
to 52 ohms with an inductive stub.  The trouble is, no mater what I do
with the stub length, I can't get the VSWR below about 3:1.
Construction details about where to locate the stub and how to attach
the coax feed are thin at best.  Has anyone built this or similar
antennas?  I could use some advise.

Lloyd
N0TDO



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:45 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Flanders)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF Big Wheel
Date: 13 Nov 1996 20:06:05 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments @ Sherman
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Lloyd
  The best construction description for the Big Wheel is in the RSGB
"VHF-UHF Manual"  6th edition.
Jim W0oog/5

In article <56a2gi$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
says...
>
>
>
>I am building a Big Wheel 2 meter horizontal antenna as described in
>the 1972 Radio Amateur's VHF Manual.  Schematicly the antenna is three
>one wave length loops in parallel.  The low feed impedance is raised
>to 52 ohms with an inductive stub.  The trouble is, no mater what I do
>with the stub length, I can't get the VSWR below about 3:1.
>Construction details about where to locate the stub and how to attach
>the coax feed are thin at best.  Has anyone built this or similar
>antennas?  I could use some advise.
>
>Lloyd
>N0TDO
>



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Brian Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Want copy of manual for KW 7950
Date: 12 Nov 1996 04:37:11 GMT
Organization: UCI Medical Center
Lines: 8
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I have a blind ham friend who received a Kenwood 7950 without the
manual.  I have figured out most of it's normal operations, but would
like a copy of the manual and specs if someone would be willing to
assist us.

Thank you,
Brian - N6ZAU  [e-mail]  or  [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:48 1996
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From: Mandy Wright <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Want Info on building a magnetic balun.
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 23:39:23 +0000
Organization: Radio Services
Lines: 43
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <55kls9$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Steve Ellington <[e-mail]>
writes
>What is it? Do magnets help baluns like the do carburators?
The term magnetic balun is an advertising ploy.  They all work by mutual
coupling between two coils.  The turns ratio determining the impedance
transformation .  The coils/windings must have about 4 times the
impedance of the line at the lowest working freq. and the leakage
reactance determines the upper freq.  The addition of a ferrite core
will increase the magnetic coupling between the windings and allow the
use of fewer turns as it increases the inductance for a given number of
turns.

As far as I am aware magnets are only used for biasing in circulators at
microwave freq.

Hope this helps
>
>
>erwin cremers ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
>: Hello,
>
>: Is there any one who can tell me how a magnetic balun can be made and
>: how it works ??
>
>: Thanks for your reply,
>
>
>: ///////////\\\\\\\\\\
>:      Erwin Cremers
>:  Dutch Radio Operator
>:         PE1MGR
>: \\\\\\\\\\\///////////
>
>
>--
>Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky

Mandy           |    Smile.... You get fewer wrinkles ;-)
West Sussex     |
UK              |

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Richard W. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Want Info on building a magnetic balun.
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 05:29:33 GMT
Organization: Seanet Online Services, Seattle WA
Lines: 37
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[e-mail] (erwin cremers) wrote:


>Hello,

>Is there any one who can tell me how a magnetic balun can be made and
>how it works ??

>Thanks for your reply,


>///////////\\\\\\\\\\
>     Erwin Cremers
> Dutch Radio Operator
>        PE1MGR
>\\\\\\\\\\\///////////

Hello Erwin,

I seriously doubt that you'll find any information on this curious
item  here.  Between Antennas and Baluns, both seem to fall under the
classification of magic given the variety of response on both
subjects.  As for Baluns, credibility is stretched thin when the
discussion so often devolves to turns ratio and flux linkage.  This is
an unfortunate reading of the word "transformer."  The transformation
of impedance provided by a Balun is performed through the choking
action of the toroid (or turns of transmission line in air) isolating
the input(s) from the output(s).   The unfortunate reading of
"transformer" is related to the isolated applications of 50/60 Hz
Power or 20 Hz to 20kHz Audio.
Any appeal to "magnetic" would seem to be another disqualifier given
that magnetics are not a principal mechanism of Baluns, except in the
broad sense of electro-magnetics which of course renders the use of
"magnetic" as redundant (or advertising fluff).

Richard Clark, KB7QHC



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WANTED: KIWA MW LOOP
Date: 11 Nov 96 14:31:45 -0500
Organization: Univ. of Massachusetts-Lowell
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <1996Nov11.143145.1@aspen>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aspen.uml.edu

LOOKING TO BUY USED KIWA MW LOOP.

CONTACT: BRAD CHARBONNEAU, NZ1Y AT <[e-mail]>






From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:50 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WAVEGUIDE FYI
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:12:07 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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The ARRL hb shows a method to conceptualize WG . But its
bad. it shows 1/4 wl stubs supporting balanced line and says
if the number of stubs is increased to infinity ,you have a
WG . The problem is that the H field ( magnetic) on a balanced
or coax line is never pointing in the direction of wave propagation.
Niether is E fld.  So the balanced line suddenly goes from H fld
transverse to H fld pointing in the direction of wave propagation
(waveguide,  Te mode) .
2 wire transmission lines ( coax,twin lead) are strickly operated
in the Tem mode "principle" mode ( both E , H fld transverse to propagation).
  A waveguide is a single wire transmission line and at least the
H or E field must point in the direction of wave propagation .
It cant support the principle mode .
 A rectangular WG needs one wall longer ( "broad" wall ) than the
other. The broad wall will be 20 % bigger than a 1/2 wl . Below
a 1/2wl the WG attenuates infinitly !
  Round WG is used for long runs as it has less loss , but it's
unwanted "higher" modes are closer in terms of frequency .


______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:51 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WAVEGUIDE FYI
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:16:24 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
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William E. Sabin wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> >
> > The ARRL hb shows a method to conceptualize WG . But its
> > bad. it shows 1/4 wl stubs supporting balanced line and says
> > if the number of stubs is increased to infinity ,you have a
> > WG .
>
> Figure 19.17 and the text in the 1996 ARRL Handbook point out that the
> 1/4 wave stub model applies only *at the cutoff frequency*. Above that
> frequency the TE10 mode takes over. This material is excellent but has to
> be read carefuly.
>
> Bill W0IYH

"....but has to read carefully.."  Your so kind ! The ARRL hb sucks !


______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:52 1996
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From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WAVEGUIDE FYI
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:15:34 -0500
Organization: Utter Chaos
Lines: 18
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altavoz wrote:
>
>
> "....but has to read carefully.."  Your so kind ! The ARRL hb sucks !
>
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________

Everything in any worthwhile technical description should be read
carefully.  If on that basis the ARRL Handbook "sucks", then so
should every other technical book.  Your statement makes no sense
to me.

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:53 1996
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From: "Reginald M. Honyben" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What is the highest watt linear amp one should use?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:00:44 -0700
Organization: Arizona State University
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Hello,

  A question for anyone out there who might know the answer.  I have
a 2 meter handheld radio and I use magnetic mount antenna.  The worst
SWR is never more than 2:1, and can be as good as 1.3:1.  It seems
strange, but even on the same frequency some days I get better SWR then
other days.   Must be the moon is in/out of faze. (there are no lose
connections.)

    Here is my question.  I want to add a linear amp to my set up.  What
is the highest watt amp that I can use and still be safe?  Is my radio
in any danger of being damage, or is it the reflected SWR only going to
damage the amp?   So, in other words, does the linear amp protect the
radio.

Thanks in Advance!  Please E-mail me!

Reg
KC7MXV
Email: [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:54 1996
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From: "George J. Molnar" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What is the highest watt linear amp one should use?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:07:50 -0500
Organization: Molnar & Associates, Inc
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To: "Reginald M. Honyben" <[e-mail]>

Reginald M. Honyben wrote:
>   A question for anyone out there who might know the answer.  I have
> a 2 meter handheld radio and I use magnetic mount antenna.  The worst
> SWR is never more than 2:1, and can be as good as 1.3:1.  It seems
> strange, but even on the same frequency some days I get better SWR > then ot
her days.   Must be the moon is in/out of faze. (there are no > lose connectio
ns.)

I'd be slightly concerned about the quality of feedline you're using. As
the cable moves, does the SWR appear to change? If not, does the
apparent change in SWR relate to the location you're measuring it from?
Is the mag mount situated in the clear, atop the vehicle, with no
obstructions within at least two feet? It should be. Also, a mag mount
can be an unreliable way of getting RF ground. Depending on your
vehicle, the "connection" to ground may vary substantially. A
permanently mounted antenna can help out tremendously. A good ground
also will help you "get out" better & appear stronger (without needing
an amp).

> Here is my question.  I want to add a linear amp to my set up. What
> is the highest watt amp that I can use and still be safe?  Is my radio
> in any danger of being damage, or is it the reflected SWR only going
> to  damage the amp?   So, in other words, does the linear amp protect > the
radio.

Wow. Well, the best answer is "it depends".

Assuming, for starters, that you're running 2m FM, you don't want a
"linear" amplifier. Such amps are used for amplitude modulated signals
(AM, SSB, etc), although the term is often used very loosely to describe
all added-on power amplifiers.

As for power, it really depends on what you want to do. If your current
installation gets you into your favorite repeaters and is adequate for
your simplex needs, SAVE YOUR MONEY and don't bother with the amp. If
you need better coverage, start at the ANTENNA -- maybe a 5/8-wave whip
would work better for you? That's an easy 3 db or so over a 1/4-wave. It
also is a great help for recieved signals. You don't want to be heard
any further than you can hear.

Okay, suppose you find you "need" a PA. For limited transmissions on 2m
FM, you can safely run perhaps 100 watts from your car without any real
issues. I'm sure there are some RF exposure guidelines out there that
can fine tune that, but I think 100w is a good practical maximum. For
pete's sake, why run more power than most repeaters, anyway? Use only
enough power to accomplish what you need. For some, 100 watts makes
sense (not many people need this), for others, 50w, 20w or even 1w or
less is all it takes for good, reliable communications.

The big thing to consider at higher power levels is if your antenna can
take it. Clearly a rubber-duck on a mag mount would melt at 100w. Make
sure the antenna AND COAX are up to the task. The connectors, too. A mag
mount might not be the best bet for a high power installation.

As for the SWR protection issue, yes, the amp will generally protect the
radio somewhat by providing a relatively constant load to the rig. This
assumes you're running the amp ALL OF THE TIME, which is bad practice
(common sense and FCC regs say to use minimum necessary power). Of
course, with a high SWR situation, the amp will be at risk (although
most have protective circuitry), and may shut down at times, returning
the high-SWR condition to your radio. So, the "protection" of an amp
isn't really what it might seem to be at first blush. You really need to
work on that antenna, first.

Hope this helps...

73

--
George J. Molnar, KF2T
Molnar & Associates, Inc.
Lebanon, New Hampshire
Respond to: [e-mail]
Web Site: http://www.cyberportal.net/gmolnar/index.html


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:55 1996
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From: George Baker <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What is the highest watt linear amp one should use?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 00:16:05 -0600
Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services
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Reginald M. Honyben wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>   A question for anyone out there who might know the answer.  I have
> a 2 meter handheld radio and I use magnetic mount antenna.  The worst
> SWR is never more than 2:1, and can be as good as 1.3:1.  It seems
> strange, but even on the same frequency some days I get better SWR then
> other days.   Must be the moon is in/out of faze. (there are no lose
> connections.)
>
>     Here is my question.  I want to add a linear amp to my set up.  What
> is the highest watt amp that I can use and still be safe?  Is my radio
> in any danger of being damage, or is it the reflected SWR only going to
> damage the amp?   So, in other words, does the linear amp protect the
> radio.
>
Suggest you try to locate a copy of "Reflections" By Walter Maxwell, W2DU. It
is handled
by the ARRL. It should clear up any confusion about reflected power causing da
mage to
radios. (It doesn't)

I have run 100 watt mobile on 2 meters for years at a time with no problem, so
 that
power level should be acceptable. Actually, unless you need extreme range on s
implex I
think that an amplifier of that level is overkill. Most mobile radios today se
em to be
around 45-50 watts output on 2 meters and are capable of making most repeater
contacts
and decent simplex with no problems, provided that a good antenna is used.

As a parting shot, before you invest in a big amplifier, see what you can do t
o put up
the best possible outside antenna on your vehicle. Mag-mounts are convenient b
ut
probably not as efficient as a permanently mounted antenna - that is probably
where your
galloping SWR is coming from. I have had great success with 5/8 wavelength mob
ile
antennas on automobiles, mounted on the rear deck with a trunk mount.

Just a few thoughts. . .good luck.

73, George
W5YR
Fairview, TX
>


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:56 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 07:28:49 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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altavoz wrote:
>
> Cecil Moore wrote:
> > Isn't a ".6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM" a good ground? It either is or it
> > isn't. If it is, guess who was correct. If it isn't, guess who
> > is incorrect.
>
> altavoz: Mr Wizzard , mind telling us whats on your alledged mind ?
>   Cause we're not mind readers .

The following is cut-and-pasted for clarity:

Well, you said:
>alatvoz:...
>why are you so afraid of radials ? ( perfectly conducting ground )

So you must consider radials to be a good ground. I said:

>>... a 5/8 vertical with a good ground ... has the maximum gain
>>available from wire with no other components.

You replied:
> > altavoz: You're wrong . A .6 wl needs a .6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM.
> > Read my post on Paul H. Lee page 84 on radials on a half wave.

And I replied with the first quote, above.

So: You said radials are a perfectly conducting ground i.e. a good
ground and turned around and said my statement about "a 5/8 vertical
with a good ground" was wrong. We are left with the following
possibilities:

I was wrong and therefore you were wrong because you said the same
thing I did, or I was right and you were wrong for saying I was wrong.

The only thing that I was guilty of was using the generic word "ground"
when technically I should have said "ground system" but you did exactly
the same thing. In trying to have it both ways, you have it neither.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:57 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 03:42:02 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <563iua$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Cecil said -
Hi Charlie, I have always assumed that since the actual speed
of light is never achieved in an antenna conductor, that when
anyone says "quarter-wavelength", they are talking in context
about a "90 degree electrical quarter-wavelength" rather than
a "physical quarter-wavelength". Is that the convention or
have I assumed too much?

Cecil,
        That is the trouble, in much of the literature it is
unclear as to just what is meant.
Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:01:58 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 16:53:06 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 61
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>Chris is absolutely right; the reactance takes the 5/8 to the resonance
of
>a 3/4.

No, not at all. The reactance simply cancels the capacitive reactance of
the element. It is a circuit problem, NOT a problem of adding missing
length.

If it made the element "look" 3/4 wl long, the pattern and feedpoint
resistance would change. As it is, only the feedpoint reactance is
cancelled, the other parameters remain unchanged, coil or no coil.

>Let's think about this: over a large GP this resembles a virtual
>(that is 'mirrored')    1 1/2 wave antenna. Check the gain on that and
>you'll find  3+ dB.

No. It resembles the gain of a 10/8 wl antenna, which is 1-1/4 wl. Not a
1-1/2 wl antenna.

>The problem is that you need a LARGE GP to get this
>mirror effect. A counterpoise will not provide such gain at low angles.

The mirror image is a ficticious tool created to explain patterns. Using
it as a literal example creates mental image problems.

A small groundplane allows radiation fields to spread into an area beow
zero degress wave angle. This lowers power in the half sphere of radiation
from zero degrees up.

>Now here's an interesting question: does a 5/8 WITHOUT a large GP
>outperform a 1/4 in, say, a mobile environment?

No.

>Consider cellular (33cm wavelength). In urban environments most of the
>cells are closely spaced (or should I say closer) and usually high up.
>MUCH of the time the cells are NOT at the horizon but from 10-60 degrees
>launch angle.

Is it really necessary to point a lobe at a 200 ft high antenna when you
are a few hundred feet away? In most cell systems I've seen, the antennas
are intentionally mounted at low heights. This is done so one cellphone
doesn't occupy several cells.
Even ten degrees is a bit high . At one mile, the optimum wave angle is
typically only a few degrees above the horizon.

When the user is right under the antenna, the distance is very short.
Field intensity is so strong, antenna gain or ERP is of no concern.

> So very low launch angles not as important.   In a real
>situation, which antenna beats which?

The desired pattern would be low angle (a<20 deg), in flat terrain it
would be lower than in hilly terrain. In almost any case, high angle
energy is wasted energy.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:00 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 21:58:26 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 47
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To: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>

Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> >
> > Cecil Moore wrote:
> > > Isn't a ".6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM" a good ground? It either is or it
> > > isn't. If it is, guess who was correct. If it isn't, guess who
> > > is incorrect.
> >
> > altavoz: Mr Wizzard , mind telling us whats on your alledged mind ?
> >   Cause we're not mind readers .
>
> The following is cut-and-pasted for clarity:
>
> Well, you said:
> >alatvoz:...
> >why are you so afraid of radials ? ( perfectly conducting ground )
>
> So you must consider radials to be a good ground. I said:
>
> >>... a 5/8 vertical with a good ground ... has the maximum gain
> >>available from wire with no other components.
>
> You replied:
> > > altavoz: You're wrong . A .6 wl needs a .6 wl RADIAL SYSTEM.
> > > Read my post on Paul H. Lee page 84 on radials on a half wave.
>
> And I replied with the first quote, above.
>
> So: You said radials are a perfectly conducting ground i.e. a good
> ground and turned around and said my statement about "a 5/8 vertical
> with a good ground" was wrong. We are left with the following
> possibilities:
>
> I was wrong and therefore you were wrong because you said the same
> thing I did, or I was right and you were wrong for saying I was wrong.
>
> The only thing that I was guilty of was using the generic word "ground"
> when technically I should have said "ground system" but you did exactly
> the same thing. In trying to have it both ways, you have it neither.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


Hmmm ?! Are you sure you have an adequate supply of MIDOL ?

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:01 1996
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From: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:27:33 -0600
Organization: ABC Radio Network Engineering - Dallas
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altavoz wrote:
>
> Harbin Osteen wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I see many posts "sizeable, substancial....GP for a .5wl antenna.
> > >
> > > You are wrong . it needs a .5 wl radial system, not a substancial...
> > > You dont know what you're talking about on half waves.
> > >
> > > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
> > Hi altavoz:
> > I am going to get a 5/8 MaCo antenna for my C.B. (11 meters?).
> > I got in on the thread late, but are you saying that ground
> > raidials have to only be equal to 1/2 wave in length to get
> > a dB gain? The MaCo does not come with raidials, so will it
> > work with raidals without messing up the SWR? I think a ground
> > plane will help any vertical antenna, but I'm not shure.
> > SeeYaa:) Harbin
>
> altavoz: 1/2wl antennas need 1/2wl radials and 5/8wl ant's  need 5/8wl
> radials . The radials must be 180 degrees to put the max gain
> on the horison . And dont use it over lossy ground cause it will
> be totally absorbed ( NOT !! its a little inside joke).

This is RUBBISH!!! ANY ground plane antenna needs only a 1/4wave radial
system NOT a radial of the same length...the radials only need to emulate
ground......the VERTICAL section is of the proper length to provide for
radiation at the horizon correctly....but a 5/8wave antenna with 1/4wave
radials will work JUST FINE...

We do it all the time in Broadcasting...and in two way too!

Chris
WB5ITT
telecom tech since 1975
Broadcast Engineer since 1976

Currently ABC Radio Network Engineer-Dallas


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:02 1996
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From: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:23:57 -0600
Organization: ABC Radio Network Engineering - Dallas
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altavoz wrote:
>
> Russ Renaud wrote:
> >
> > altavoz ([e-mail]) writes:
> >
> > >> > altavoz: 1/4w antennas are allways shorter than 1/4w to allow
> > >> > an inexpensive coil to tune it to resonance.
> > >>
> > >> Hi Altavoz, Most prudent people avoid blanket statements using
> > >> the words, "always", "never", etc. because they are almost
> > >> always false. Both my 10m whip and 2m whip are 1/4 WL and
> > >> resonant without loading coils.
> > >>
> > >> I would agree that most CB antennas are shorter than 1/4w...
> > >>
> > >> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)
> > >
> > > altavoz: I know what im talking about , so i made the absolute
> > > statement , and i stand by it . Between .25w and .5w you'll need
> >
> > I have two commercial mobile 1/4 wave antennas, and neither have coils
> > nor capacitors.  One is for the 2 metre amateur band, the other
> > is UHF low band.  Perhaps you're confusing shortened whips with
> > those typically used on CB.
>
> altavoz: It's there , you are too inexperienced to spot it.
> --


In the case of TRUE 1/4wave antennas, NO cap is needed....my Motorola, or
MAXON or Larsen 1/4waves on 2 or 220 or 440 have NO caps, etc....even my
DB201 1/4wave groundplane on lowband (6mtrs) has no cap, etc!!!

Now for a 5/8wave, you need a SERIES coil to electrically lengthen the
antenna to 3/4wave so it will be a good match for 50 ohms...the 5/8wave
PHYSICAL length is best for gain at the horizon....but the impedance is
not a good 50 ohm match (has capacitive reactance) so a series coil is
needed to match it.....a TRUE 3/3wave antenna needs no coil (I have used
a 48 Mhz lowband whip on 145 Mhz with 1:1 SWR but poorer performance than
a 5/8wave cut to 2mtrs)

73
Chris
WB5ITT

ABC Radio Engineering - Dallas


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:54:54 GMT
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RE: Tom's comments

Ton, absolutely extraordinary. I don't know where to begin without writing
a tome in response.

I stick by my assessment of your comments.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 18:41:02 GMT
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On the other hand, there was a typo you exploited, so I went back to EZNEC
to check the numbers.

A 5/8 LOADS to approximate a 3/4 wave; its GAIN is that of the 5/8. A 5/8
x 2 DIPOLE LOADS like a 1 1/2 wave but has the gain of a 1 1/4 wave.

The 5/8 x 2 dipole has 3 dB gain over a 1/2 wave dipole but needs to be
LOADED to resonance.

The 3/4 x 2 dipole has a clover pattern about 2/3  dB down from the 5/8 x
2.


Finally, as for the cell comment--unbelievable. Lets just say that lotsa
people would pay BIG $$$ for the opportunity to place cells on the
observer's horizon in most cities. It don't happen. Why? Cuz when you put
them on low places (like supermarkets or hotels or billboards) you place
yourself in a box surrounded by higher buildings, ergo your cell coverage
is pathetic; multipath is a nightmare. Ergo you have to stick them higher
up instead, and the launch angle becomes deliciously larger than zero. Or
you have to put up more cells, which zoning boards love, and creates HUGE
expenses. Occasionally you find an ideal low-location with good horizon,
such as in sprawled min-malled cities or near airports.
Also, in most urban environments the cells are often 1/2 a mile or less
from each other to accomodate the volume of calls.

Now some angles. Lets approximate. A cell up 200 feet (moderately high)
from 1000 feet is about 1/5 of a radian. That puts its launch angle at
about 12 degrees. Marginal on the 'ideal horiozn' case. Now drive downtown
next to that cell and the launch angle is substantially higher. An ideal
case would be to put the cell say, at 40 feet and be 6000 feet away--in
which case there's your beautific horizon. Want some examples? I was in
Kansas City 2 weeks ago and saw cell sight nightmares with building of 200
feet or more scattered around. Cell heaven? Fort Lauderdale Florida, where
save for the coastal condos and a small but high business district, cell
are placed on banks and mini-mall abodes.

So, Thomas, instead of ANSWERING the reasonable question, you attempted to
reduce it as moot. Its hardly that. IF you have the answer, I for one
would be interested in knowing it: WHICH WORKS BETTER IN URBAN (CELLULAR)
ENVIRONMENTS: 5/8 or 1/4?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:05 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:31:00 -0700
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altavoz wrote:
> > > altavoz: Mr Wizzard , mind telling us whats on your alledged mind ?

> Hmmm ?! Are you sure you have an adequate supply of MIDOL ?

Hi Altavoz, if you don't want an answer, don't ask for one. :-)

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:06 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 14:42:18 GMT
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RE: Chris's Comments

Chris is absolutely right; the reactance takes the 5/8 to the resonance of
a 3/4. Let's think about this: over a large GP this resembles a virtual
(that is 'mirrored')      1 1/2 wave antenna. Check the gain on that and
you'll find  3+ dB. The problem is that you need a LARGE GP to get this
mirror effect. A counterpoise will not provide such gain at low angles.

Now here's an interesting question: does a 5/8 WITHOUT a large GP
outperform a 1/4 in, say, a mobile environment? Not as dumb as it sounds!
Consider cellular (33cm wavelength). In urban environments most of the
cells are closely spaced (or should I say closer) and usually high up.
MUCH of the time the cells are NOT at the horizon but from 10-60 degrees
launch angle. So very low launch angles not as important.   In a real
situation, which antenna beats which?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 21:45:03 GMT
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Hi Chip,

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>
>A 5/8 LOADS to approximate a 3/4 wave; its GAIN is that of the 5/8. A 5/8
>x 2 DIPOLE LOADS like a 1 1/2 wave but has the gain of a 1 1/4 wave.

No, that is an totally incorrect description. A 5/8 wl does not "load to
be a 3/4 wl". A 10/ 8 wave dipole is a "10/8 wave dipole", and in most
cases inductance isn't even added. If it were added, it would ONLY vary
the feedpoint impedance.

The series inductive reactance merely cancels capacitive reactance
appearing at the feedpoint, all parameters in the antenna remain exactly
the same with or without the coil in either case. It is for matching, not
changing the antenna's effective length.

>The 5/8 x 2 dipole has 3 dB gain over a 1/2 wave dipole but needs to be
>LOADED to resonance.

No, it has that gain with or without any coil. The coil is for the benefit
of the transmission line and transmitter, not the antenna.

>Finally, as for the cell comment--unbelievable. Lets just say that lotsa
>people would pay BIG $$$ for the opportunity to place cells on the
>observer's horizon in most cities. It don't happen. Why? Cuz when you put
>them on low places (like supermarkets or hotels or billboards) you place
>yourself in a box surrounded by higher buildings, ergo your cell coverage
>is pathetic; multipath is a nightmare.

I indicated 200 feet for antenna height. We have very few 200 foot tall
hotels, supermarkets, and billboards in Atlanta and most of the cities
I've been in. Do you have lot's of 20 story tall billboards and
supermarkets in your town?

> Ergo you have to stick them higher
>up instead, and the launch angle becomes deliciously larger than zero. Or
>you have to put up more cells, which zoning boards love, and creates HUGE
>expenses. Occasionally you find an ideal low-location with good horizon,
>such as in sprawled min-malled cities or near airports.

Chip, please calculate the antenna height required to require a 60 degree
wave angle at a base distance of one mile. Perhaps you are using fractal
geometry by mistake?

>Also, in most urban environments the cells are often 1/2 a mile or less
>from each other to accomodate the volume of calls.

So you are saying cell companies enjoy huge expenses, and try to keep
cells a 1/2 mile or less apart. But while they dothat, they also place the
antennas way up in the air? That sounds like you are disputing yourself
Chip.

Anyway, they sure don't do that here in Atlanta, and not in Toledo and
Detroit (where my old company installed Cellular antennas).

>Now some angles. Lets approximate. A cell up 200 feet (moderately high)
>from 1000 feet is about 1/5 of a radian. That puts its launch angle at
>about 12 degrees.

I'd be disappointed if my cell phone was designed to cover 1/2 mile, since
the cell centers here are sometimes fifteen miles or more apart.

>So, Thomas, instead of ANSWERING the reasonable question, you attempted
to
>reduce it as moot. Its hardly that. IF you have the answer, I for one
>would be interested in knowing it: WHICH WORKS BETTER IN URBAN (CELLULAR)
>ENVIRONMENTS: 5/8 or 1/4?

In your example, the 1/4 wl would be better. But I don't think your
description is correct. I wonder if anyone else knows how far apart the
cells are in most systems, and the average antenna height? The one's I've
seen are lower in the city, and higher in the rural areas, but average
about 200 feet.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:08 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 22:52:37 GMT
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Chip--

In his reply, Tom wrote:

The series inductive reactance merely cancels capacitive reactance
appearing at the feedpoint, all parameters in the antenna remain exactly
the same with or without the coil in either case. It is for matching, not
changing the antenna's effective length.

Snip

I believe Tom is correct on this point.  I've done lot of work with 2 x
5/8 dipoles, first for Cushcraft and later for MFJ (Joe Reisert explained
it to me in just that way several years ago when I was working on a
sidemount).  In the 2 x 5/8 that I use here, the coils are shielded inside
the support structure--I don't even consider them part of the antenna.

-- Rick


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:09 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 11 Nov 1996 05:35:32 GMT
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Chip--

I just reread my post three times--and I don't see the word "loading" in
there.  Perhaps we're not talking about the same post.

--Rick


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:10 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 23:02:21 GMT
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RE: Rick's comments


Hi Rick--

You (perhaps) didn't see the follow up: the typo should read 1 1/4, not  1
1/2.

Therefore, we ALL agree. Also, I don't recall saying that the LOADING
produces the gain; why would you put those words in that aren't there? The
LOADING produces the RESONANCE. OK? The only way to get the 'loading' to
produce a gain change is to shape it, such as in echelon.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:11 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 11 Nov 1996 06:07:41 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

> Also, I don't recall saying that the LOADING
>produces the gain; why would you put those words in that aren't there?

Because you said:
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>A 5/8 LOADS to approximate a 3/4 wave; its GAIN is that of the 5/8. A 5/8
>x 2 DIPOLE LOADS like a 1 1/2 wave but has the gain of a 1 1/4 wave.

The coil does not make the "5/8 wl load to approximate a 3/4 wl", nor the
10/8 wl "dipole load like a 1-1/2 wl antenna". That's simply the wrong way
to say it.

All the inductor does is cancel the reactance. The resistive part of the
feedpoint impedance remains the same (with the reactance added in series)
so nothing in the system, neither impedance or pattern, looks like a 3/4
wl or 1-1/2 wl.

>The 5/8 x 2 dipole has 3 dB gain over a 1/2 wave dipole but needs to be
>LOADED to resonance.

No, it does not. It will have the very same gain whether resonant or not.
The coil simply modifies feedpoint impedance..

>The
>LOADING produces the RESONANCE. OK?

That's OK.

>The only way to get the 'loading' to
>produce a gain change is to shape it, such as in echelon.

No. Loading can change gain and pattern simply by moving it up in the
radiator. There is no reason to "step it" or "shape it", all we need do is
move it to a location that changes the radiator's current distribution.

Are cell antennas in Boston really way over 200 feet in the air and only a
mile apart?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:12 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:14:12 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.206.86
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hi Chip,
>
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] writes:
> >
> >A 5/8 LOADS to approximate a 3/4 wave; its GAIN is that of the 5/8. A 5/8
> >x 2 DIPOLE LOADS like a 1 1/2 wave but has the gain of a 1 1/4 wave.
>
> No, that is an totally incorrect description. A 5/8 wl does not "load to
> be a 3/4 wl". A 10/ 8 wave dipole is a "10/8 wave dipole", and in most
> cases inductance isn't even added. If it were added, it would ONLY vary
> the feedpoint impedance.


altavoz: Well said , TOM .  One small point , we do parallel some
induct' to raise the antennas XC to 200-J115 and then series a 00+j86 so
that the "L" network can match to 50+j00.

Chip thinks that adding XL to an antenna will lengthen it. ( wrong)

 An 1/8 wl antenna matched with a feedpoint XL does not radiate the
same pattern as a 1/4 wl and this proves the XL does not lengthen the
antenna . If the XL is placed in the center of the radiator , it will
lengthen the antenna .

> that decrease
> The series inductive reactance merely cancels capacitive reactance
> appearing at the feedpoint, all parameters in the antenna remain exactly
> the same with or without the coil in either case. It is for matching, not
> changing the antenna's effective length.
>
> >The 5/8 x 2 dipole has 3 dB gain over a 1/2 wave dipole but needs to be
> >LOADED to resonance.
>
> No, it has that gain with or without any coil. The coil is for the benefit
> of the transmission line and transmitter, not the antenna.

altavoz: Your right Tom , Chip does not inhale , he just holds the
joint for a friend.


> 73 Tom

--

______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:13 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:18:51 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <5565hp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.206.86
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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To: "Christopher W. Boone" <[e-mail]>

Christopher W. Boone wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> >
> > Harbin Osteen wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I see many posts "sizeable, substancial....GP for a .5wl antenna.
> > > >
> > > > You are wrong . it needs a .5 wl radial system, not a substancial...
> > > > You dont know what you're talking about on half waves.
> > > >
> > > > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
> > > Hi altavoz:
> > > I am going to get a 5/8 MaCo antenna for my C.B. (11 meters?).
> > > I got in on the thread late, but are you saying that ground
> > > raidials have to only be equal to 1/2 wave in length to get
> > > a dB gain? The MaCo does not come with raidials, so will it
> > > work with raidals without messing up the SWR? I think a ground
> > > plane will help any vertical antenna, but I'm not shure.
> > > SeeYaa:) Harbin
> >
> > altavoz: 1/2wl antennas need 1/2wl radials and 5/8wl ant's  need 5/8wl
> > radials . The radials must be 180 degrees to put the max gain
> > on the horison . And dont use it over lossy ground cause it will
> > be totally absorbed ( NOT !! its a little inside joke).
>
> This is RUBBISH!!! ANY ground plane antenna needs only a 1/4wave radial
> system NOT a radial of the same length...the radials only need to emulate
> ground......the VERTICAL section is of the proper length to provide for
> radiation at the horizon correctly....but a 5/8wave antenna with 1/4wave
> radials will work JUST FINE...
>
> We do it all the time in Broadcasting...and in two way too!
>
> Chris
> WB5ITT
> telecom tech since 1975
> Broadcast Engineer since 1976
>
> Currently ABC Radio Network Engineer-Dallas


altavoz: Chris there's no excuse for this kind of ignorance when
Paul H Lee's book only costs $10 from CQ magazine .



 YOUR STATEMENT IS FALSE IN EVERY WAY !


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:14 1996
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From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:53:53 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> On the other hand, there was a typo you exploited, so I went back to EZNEC
> to check the numbers.......
> Also, in most urban environments the cells are often 1/2 a mile or less
> from each other to accomodate the volume of calls.

altavoz: No , close, to get a clear signal.
You could put them 1' apart and they couldnt handle any more
calls , thats limited by the number of channels . When they're
very far apart ( far enuf so each tower could transmit on the same
ch) then the number of "calls" would increase . When towers are very
close and ur moving , you r handed off ,but to a different ch, if
the towers are far enuf apart , you can be handed to the same freq
( but arent for other reasons ).

>  IF you have the answer, I for one
> would be interested in knowing it: WHICH WORKS BETTER IN URBAN (CELLULAR)
> ENVIRONMENTS: 5/8 or 1/4?
>
> 73
> Chip N1IR

altavoz:   IS THIS ALT.CELL.ANTENNAS ?
5/8 wl antennas at HAM FREQUENCIES work great .


From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!llnews.ll.mit.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Max)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Yagi calculator
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 15:40:52 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <32835482.1091581@llnews>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/32.275

do a search for "yagimax"
 this is a freeware program by Lew Gordon
I think he's up to version 3.11, he can be reached at;
Lew Gordon, K4VX
P.O. Box 105
Hannibal, MO 63401
[phone]



From [e-mail] Sat Nov 16 17:02:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!clicnet!news.clic.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!altitude!usenet
From: Madjid VE2GMI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Yagi calculator
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:43:58 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamicppp-58.hip.cam.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
To: Trevor Bowles - [phone] <[e-mail]>

Trevor Bowles - [phone] wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> i'm looking for a program to calculate yagi dimensions, ie number of
> radiators, size there of etc, i expect inputs would be Boom / radiator
> dimension, freq, gain.
>
> operating systems, DOS, WIN3.1, UNIX, LINUX
>
> Please put reply here, or EMAIL to add below..


YO from K6STI, coupled with AO the antenna optimizer
it is todate the best combination to design AND OPTIMIZE Beams.

There is also a YAGIMAX program floating somewhere on the
web (ARRL FTP site ?) which also allows optimization.


-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Turnstile antenna
Date: 10 Nov 96 21:29:15 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

I am studying the turnstile antenna in a recent edition of the ARRL Antenna
Handbook and am a little puzzled.

The turnstile antenna is two, horizontal, collocated, perpendicular,
half-wave dipole elements over a ground screen intended for satellite work.
The elements are fed in quadrature using a quarter-wave coax section
connected between the elements with the terminal feed at either element.
This produces circular polarization.

From a previous chapter I learned that a simple quarter-wave section will
not force equal currents at the elements due to mutual coupling
and the unequal effects of external objects on the elements.

It is that there is no mutual coupling between the elements since they are
perpendicular?  What about the effects of external objects?  Is there a
better way to phase this antenna (such as connecting a quarter-wave section
to each element and feeding them in parallel using a lumped L-R circuit as
suggested in the Handbook for parallel phased elements)?

73 de Chuck

amprnet: [e-mail]           internet: [e-mail]
ax25   : n2ucn@wa2soc.#nnj.nj.usa.na     internet: [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:14 1996
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From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: feedline question
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:39:13 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0101.celsiustech.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I)
To: cleve e massey <[e-mail]>

cleve e massey wrote:
>
> At last I can put up outside antennas...now that means a G5RV since I need
> an all purpose antenna...and since the feedline is of the coax variety...
>
> This is the $64,000 question...what is the lowest loss, smallest diameter
> coax???  I will probably run no more than 50 watts on HF...and the run
> will be less than 100 feet.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Pse e-mail me direct!!!
>
> cleve...wd5bor

Well you have some non-flexible micrawave cables for som $10/feet but I
guess you want something else.
HF and 100 feet won't give any noticable losse so use a RG-58.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!sn.no!nntp.uio.no!news.kth.se!tybalt.admin.kth.se!celsiustech.se!usenet
From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna !
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:25:28 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0206.celsiustech.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I)
To: [e-mail]

Mandy Chan Min Wai wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>     Do anyone know how to make an antenna suitable for UHF.

Which frequency are you referring to ??

>Basically I need the instruction to build it at home usage,

Have you tried any antenna handbook ??? They are listed there.

>or maybe someone would
> teach me how ro make a parabolic disc !

That is very simple, just use the math formula for a parabole and put a
suitable feedsystem in the focus.
Well if you make it asymetric it will be a bit more complicated
specially to build, a symetrical will normally do fine.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:16 1996
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From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Shape of a very long rhombic ?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:27:58 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56aaan$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0206.celsiustech.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I)
To: John 015 <[e-mail]>

John 015 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a question.  Long wire (l = n x wl) antennas become
> somewhat unidirectional:
>
> The "V" antenna radiates into the "forward direction",
> the rhombic ("double V) even more so.  Conceptually
> I could build a very long rhombic.  Am I right in assuming
> that the angle between the wires should approach 0'
> and that the limit when "wire-length goes to infinity"
> is a say 300 ohms twin-lead terminated into 300 ohms ?
> Intuition tells me that the twinlead wouldn't radiate in
> the forward direction so just exactly what does a "very long"
> rhombic look like.


Right you are... long might be 5-10 wavelengths     SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (JosΘ Alberto)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best HF vertical?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 01:50:02 GMT
Organization: Iusatel
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <56gi8a$[e-mail]>
References: <565prb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial15.iusanet.cl
X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.82

In article <[e-mail]>, altavoz <[e-mail]
> says:
>
>Robert Penneys wrote:
>>
>> I am operating from a deed restricted community and have one wire
>> antenna up, a Fritzel, which is terrific.
>>
>> I am debating putting up a single vertical. My interest is mostly CW,
>> right now 40, 20, low bands, and 15/10 in that order.
>>
>> I would ground or mast mount. Wanna keep it down.
>>
>> Force 12, Cushcraft, Hy-Gain, Butternut and Hustler are available to me.
>>
>> Your opinions are most welcome.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob N9GG (recently WN3K)
>>
>> Go FRC!!!
>
>
>altavoz:
>
>
>BUY PAUL H. LEES "AMATUER RADIO VERTICAL ANTENNA HANDBOOK" FROM
>CQ MAGAZINE ! its the best $10 ever spent .


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:18 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!ip21-155
From: [e-mail] (Scott Townley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 14 Nov 1996 20:43:04 -0700
Organization: TRAC Engineering, Gilbert, AZ
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <56gos8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56epu5$[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: @204.245.21.155 (nx7u)
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

In article <56epu5$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:

..Roy's letter deleted...

>and here is his response:
>
>Roy Lewallen,
>   Thankyou for your interest in the CTHA.  I apologize for not being
>more forthcoming with quantitive technical information but do to the
>proprietary nature of our patented antenna I am limited in what I can
>send out.  We did present a paper at MilCom this year titled "Resonant
>Frequency Prediction of the CTHA."  I can tell you that it has a nearly
>isotropic radiation pattern, is circularly polarized, and has

Admittedly it's been a while for the "book" end of EM for me, but I distinctly

recall that according to current theory, that this is not possible (isotropic
AND circularly polarized).  Yes, he does say "nearly", but...hmm.

>effectively communicated with a satellite using low power.  Due to the
>large number of parameters which govern CTHA performance it is not
>completely optimized yet.  (This may be part of why I have been limited
>in communicating technical specifications.)  I am authorized to extend
>an invitation to you to come see our CTHA program firsthand.
>


And a follow-up on some other comments made re: desireability of CP for
satellite com.  No doubt, but my experience has been that one of the main
limitations of achieving wide-angle, low-axial-ratio CP from any antenna is
the near-field environment of the antenna itself, not necessarily the
radiating structure per se.  In other words, the proximity of the user if the
device is hand-held, the presence of a conducting ground plane, etc., can
dominate the achieved axial ratio much more than the actual radiation
properties of the antenna element.  Such effects make "optimized" antennas lab

curiousities more than actual solutions.

Not that lab curiousities aren't marketable.  I'm in the cellular business,
and one vendor recently came out with a "high front-to-back ratio" panel
antenna (F/B>40dB).  In dense cellular environments, these would be very
valuable.  No doubt they work great in an anechoic chamber, but all of our
field testing on these has been that when you put them on a tower with the big

mounting triangle and three or four other antennas right next to it, it has a
F/B no different than any other, "normal" antenna on the market!  But the
vendor did sell many units.

Scott Townley                   "When the Going gets Weird,
[e-mail]               the Weird turn Pro"
                                -Dr. Gonzo, Sports Editor


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
From: "Bob Dye" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.digital,aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.packet,in.ham-radio,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Equipment for Sale
Date: 15 Nov 1996 04:33:48 GMT
Organization: kc4hdk
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <01bbd2a3$5b1f49e0$LocalHost@robert-j.-dye>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pslfl2-2.gate.net
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Xref: news1.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.digital:273 aus.radio.amateur.misc:1518 in.ham-radio:380 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31677 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20137 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42509 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118321 rec.radio.amateur.space:8831

Well here is the list.  Most of this equipment was hardly ever used.  I am
getting out of many parts of ham radio concentrating on my UHF repeater and
links to it.  I will pay for shipping.  Please pass on this message to
others that
may be interested.  If you are on local packet please post it on the local
BBS.
Trying to generate revenue. Thank you for your time.

Bob
[e-mail]
561.552.3114 If no answer leave voice mail



MANUFACTURE   MODEL #             CONDITION & DESCRIPTION


MFJ                    VERSA TUNER V  GOOD


KENWOOD         TS690                   EXCELLENT, WITH INTERNAL ANT TUNER


AEA                    DSP-232               NEW IN BOX


YAESU                G-5400B               EXCELLENT, SEPARATOR KIT, 200'
CABLE

KIRON CORP       SATTRAK IV         HIGH ACC CLOCK,   TRACKING BOX








From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 04:37:30 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <56gs60$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <563gq4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 04:39:28 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse) wrote:

Jesse,
    Most of the lore about designing LPAs came from one man's work
that was done in the late 40s I believe.  Since then, it has been
found that the published curves for gain, given the spacing and taper
factor are not quite right.  These days, with the ready availability
of antenna modeling software people are discovering better parameters
for LPAs.  I do not dispute your observations with the 8 LPAs you were
doing the comparisons with.  I also do not dispute your endorsement of
the quad.  A multiband quad is very hard to beat, except for
mechanical stability.
    I know of quite a few "top guns" who use LPAs these days.  Look at
the scores that Matt, KC1XX racks up in most worldwide contests.  He
uses two stacked LPAs.  Also, WA1EKV, while not a true contestor,
usually is known for having the loudest signal on the planet on almost
every band from 80 through 10.  A few years ago, he took down two big
stacks of monobanders and replaced them with some very large homebrew
LPAs that are incredible to behold. His observation, from both
modeling and operating, is that stacking the monobanders compromised
the performance of each antenna when compared to each one in
isolation.  The LPAs were a better solution than the stack.  On the
other hand, a single  isolated monobander has it all over the LPA in
regard to gain vs size and weight.

dudley, WA1X

>Hi Tony,
>the LPA is a compromise antenna system (compared to a 3el monoband
>yagi or a 4band, 2el Quad).  At best, only four elements are active on
>any one frequency and their spaceing, length and matching are
>compromised.
>In my opinion, the multiband Quad gives you the most "Bang" for the
>buck.  I don't believe their is a commercial tri-band yagi (traps or
>linear loading)  for a given boom length that will  give more gain,
>and better fb than a good 2el, multi-band quad.  The Quad, compared to
>the Yagi  is much easier to tune for max performance.  I know of no
>"top" DX station that uses a LPA system.  In the mid sixties I was in
>charge of a station that used eight LP antenna systems.  Many times I
>compared them on twenty meters against a 4el, 20m, monobander (204BA)
>which I used for my amateur station.  The 204BA always out performed
>the LPAs on twenty meters.
>73, Jesse, W6KKT
>
>




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 04:55:11 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <56gt76$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <563gq4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 04:57:10 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Jari Jokiniemi) wrote:


>In article <563gq4$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dudley
 Chapman) writes:
>   monoband yagi for equivalent performance on a single band.  However,
>   when you compare an LPA against a tribander, with trap losses, (which
>   get worse as the bugs and moisture crawls in) they start to become
>   equal.

>Anyone has an idea of how much are the trap losses with a typical
>tribander? 1 dB? What about a fivebander like Mosley TA-53M?

>--
>Jari Jokiniemi, [e-mail], OH2MPO, OH3BU
>Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, [phone]


Once again, I think you gentleman are right, that there is nothing new
under the sun, but sometimes there are new subtle variations that seem
to appear over time.

I cannot dispute that the LPA is inferior to a trapless, well designed
monobander in respect to gain vs size and weight.  There is no
compelling reason to compare the two, as you have said.   However,
when multiband performance is required, your choices are trapped yagis
which have losses (which increase over time as the trap gets infested
with bugs and moisture), and a stack of monobanders.  In this arena,
an LPA begins to look good.  Most contesters on the East Coast are f/b
crazy because all the rest of you guys are off the back end of their
yagis, pounding away during a European contest.  The proximity of
monobanders in a stack degrade their f/b.  It is for this reason that
a number of serious top ranking contesters in Mass. are experimenting
with LPAs in place of their stacks.

Most of the installations I am referring to still have monobanders
fixed on Europe and spaced wide apart from each other along the length
of the tower.  These are fine and they are quite happy with them.
However, where they  used to have close spaced rotatable stacks, they
replace these with LPAs.

About 5 years ago, I helped WA1EKV model his stack vs his 18  element
65 ft boom LPA design.  His PC had run out of gas, and I had NEC2 on a
VAX, so I helped him confirm his suspicions.  He was right.  He built
two of these babies and has one at 130 ft and one at 65 ft.

These days, MN can handle this kind of stuff, so I recommend that you
give it a try and see if I am right.

dudley, WA1X



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bob Tail Curtain Matching Network Help????
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:09:41 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56gu2b$[e-mail]>
References: <55bimh$[e-mail]> <563cq3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56btap$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 05:11:39 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Zack Lau <[e-mail]> wrote:

>OH4JK Juha Kupiainen wrote:
>\
>> I found this from one publication ...
>>
>> "No matter how the coaxcable is brought down from the midverticalelement
>> these will be unbalanced coupling to the cable from radiating positions
>> of the antenna which makes the current distribution to three verticals
>> unsymetrical. Voltage feeding is the only good way to feed the antenna!"

>How about making the center element out of aluminum tubing
>and bringing the coaxial feedline down through the element.
>The feedline could even be buried to further reduce its coupling
>to the antenna.  Zack W1VT


Darn, I thought that I was the first one to think of feeding a Bobtail
Curtain this way.  Oh well, there goes my fame and fortune.

Anyway, you all raise a valid point on the coupling of the coax to the
middle vertical element.  I tried to alleviate this problem by using a
choke balun of the "beads around the coax" variety at the feedpoint.
Then, I put another choke balun at 1/4 wavelength from the feedpoint
and grounded the sheild of the coax on the rig side of the second
balun.   Due to the velocity factor, the physical length of the coax
at 1/4 wavelength was longer than the vertical elements, so it worked
out fine.  The rest of the coax ran along the ground to the shack.

Oh yes, the OM who mentioned the half square is correct.  One can feed
that the same way.

WA1X



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:31 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:14:21 GMT
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <9610311516.AA16979@btc1> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup055.qnsbny1.capital.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

[e-mail] wrote:

>13 November 1996
>
>Hello
>
>I am new to this newsgroup, although I am a professional engineer. Reading
>all the messages has been very interesting.
>
>After reading the biggest message groups, I get the feeling that they're
>about something other than meant to be discussed. W8JITom doesn't seem to
>like fractal antennas (which actually sound pretty interesting to me.
>Heard some talks on them at the APS Meeting at Baltimore)  Fractenna
>doesn't seem to like Tom. W8JITom doesn't like fractenna. K!BQT doesn't
>seem to want Fractenna around at all and wants to get him fired from his
>job and sends regrets from a magazine. W8JITom doesn't seem to like any
>small antennas (perhaps thats only new ones) and refuses to consider
>building them.
>
>Overall I'd say that W8JITom's advice is pretty good but very opinionated,
>even wrong at times (I seem to recall a fractal antenna article last
>Winter in Electronics Letters).  Imagine finding reasons not to build
>antennas and writing up many messages instead!  Where's the pleasure in
>that? Fractenna's ideas are good but he seems to need some advice. The way
>its presented is not entirely objective so its no surprise that he won't
>listen to it. You gents remind me of my kids when they were younger.
>Fractenna--relax! You'll get there! W8JiTom--tone it down about 5 octaves,
>and open your mind.  Maxwell's equations apply to all surfaces!
>
>Enjoy antennas gentlemen. I certainly do. Name calling won't produce old
>OR new antennas.
>
>Jack

How did you miss altavoz? He, She, It....?  is the worst of the bunch.
--
73,
Butch N2YMJ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gonna buy a BugCatcher...
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:16:45 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <56gufk$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <563fni$[e-mail]> <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 05:18:44 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

edwin bailen <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I thought I remembered reading a "shootout" article in CQ (or another
>non-QST) mag. that the bugcatchers out performed the screwdrivers on 80
>and 160.

>The Hustlers may be sub-optimum, but the mast is resonant on 6M, and
>(like the screwdriver) you get some degree of band mobility without
>leaving your vehicle.

>Unfortunately, the Hustler elements are incompatible with the trees on
>the cowpaths I drive, so I bought one of Henry's bugcatchers a few months
>ago.  Since I only want to work 40 meters and up, Henry was able to help
>me put together a rather low-profile design that still works well on the
>back of my pickup.  The down side of the low profile design is the loss of
>6 meters.  I'll have to put the 6 meter 1/4-wave back with a duplexer.

>On the subject of masts, the Texas Bugcatcher masts are an order of
>magnitude stronger than the Hustler mast.  They cost a heck of a lot
>more, but if you can't brace the Hustler mast just below the coil, it
>will fatigue (speaking from experience).

>Jerry, have you checked your rig in the Expolrer yet?  Fords are
>notorious for hash from the electric fuel pump in the gas tank.  I
>haven't followed this newsgroup for a while, but there was mention of a
>Ford service bulletin on this problem some time back.

>Have fun on the road!

>Regards,
>Ed - N5KZW


Ed,
    Your comment on the Hustler masts vs the Texas Bugcatcher masts is
correct.  They are much more substantial.  The reason I went with the
hustler one is that it is light and has a lot of springiness to it.
Accordingly, it survived a lot of abuse owing to the same principle
that a sapling will bend but an old strong branch may break under the
same load.  I was also worried that the constant motion of a very
stiff mast would begin to wear out the ball mount of the place it was
mounted to on the car.

I hit quite a few branches with the thing and it always survived.  I
cannot say that I repeated the experiment with a Texas Bugcatcher
mast, so my comparison is only a theory.

WA1X



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:33 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: beams
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:29:36 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <56gv7n$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 05:31:35 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Michael Pelletier <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Are beams just for transmissions or do they also improve reception.
> Also, are there any good sites on the web for someone interested in
>learning about antennas.
>Thanks.
>[e-mail]

Michael,

    The general rule is that all antenna systems are reciprocal.
Which means that whatever gain and directionality it has on transmit
is exactly the same on receive.  This applies to simple dipoles as
well as  complex arrays of antennas and elements.  There may be some
cases where this rule is violated, but you will not run into it with
routing Ham antenna designs.

     A good practical antenna reference is the ARRL Antenna Handbook.
I think their site is www.arrl.org

dudley, WA1X



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:36 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:44:06 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <56h03o$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 15 Nov 1996 05:46:32 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

This is probably old news these days on this board.  But at the risk
of appearing to be a crackpot, I would like to hear if anyone in the
world ever made Hateley's Cross Field Antenna work.  I built one a few
years ago.  I couldn't help myself.  My rational side told me that it
was a crock even when I reread the Feynman Lectures and confirmed that
you could get a B field from AC on a capacitor.

The reason I built one is that my emotional side said that it would be
one terrific mobile antenna for 40m.  Since I was heavily into 40 m
mobile cw at the time, I made a groundplane CFA out of aluminum
flashing, and an aluminum stovepipe section, and a Hybrid combiner.

Needless to say, it seemed to be worse than open coax.  Since there
were a few (more than a few) muddy descriptions of things in the
artical, like that silly isolation transformer on the disk part, I
always had a secret doubt that I might have screwed up the
construction.  At the time of its publication in Wireless World, I am
sure the newsgroup was buzzing with all kinds of vituperations about
it.

Since it surfaces from time to time, and since I hear from various
hams in the military that the military uses some kind of CFAs, I have
steeled up my courage and am willing to brave the ridicule for having
mentioned it at all.

Ok, do your worst.  I can take it.

Dudley, WA1X/8




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:37 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.crl.com!nexp.crl.com!usenet
From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateu
Subject: Re: Club WWW site
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:44:22 -0800
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]> <56h5cl$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.113.223.131
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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To: Jimmy Navarro <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31670 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:552 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20134 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1331 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42500 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21164 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118316

Jimmy Navarro wrote:
>
> In article <01bbd141$bc5224c0$[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] says...
> >
> >This is the Hamtpon Roads Radio Association web site you may be interested
> >in.  We are located in Norfolk Virginia.  Let me know what you think!
> >
> >Eric KE4KIK 73!
> >
> >http://www.infi.net/hrra
> How much do your ISP charge for home page?  I'd like to build a Web site for
> an open repeater club.  73!

Check out http://geocities.com
You can get "free" homepages there!!!
73....
--
Dave Booth kc6wfs
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860/


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:41 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 15 Nov 1996 21:53:33 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Chip.
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>Tom, I'm glad you have finally concluded what has been clear for some
>time: the CTHA is NOT a high gain omni. Could you clarify what it was
that
>lead you to that assumption?

I knew all along it was not an efficient antenna, I just never quite
understood the merits other than being physically small. I started out
thinking the antenna had no merit, and now I am all but positive of it.

>ever, that your critique of an actual CTHA in your lab would do wonders
to
>help us out. Please consider building one, as per the simple prototype
>described in www.cira.wvu.edu.

There has to be some compelling reason for me to do that, and I see none.
The data I have seen indicates it's just a small loaded antenna. Nothing
more, nothing less.

If you build one and ship it to me, I'll certainly be happy to measure
main lobe and minor lobe gain relative to whatever reference antenna you
supply.

There is another problem with the claims. A bi-directonal antenna that is
not a combination of two uni-directional antennas having circular
polarization, when "flipped over", changes polarity rotation. If the
satellite is polarity rotation sensitive, and the antenna is flipped over,
what was 3 dB of gain can become many dB of loss.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:42 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 15 Nov 1996 22:22:28 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 11
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hi Tom--

How is it that Dr. Craven can't report on the CTHA because it is still
being perfected, yet we all should build them and issue reports from
looking at a picture??  And, if the "final" version is too proprietory to
report on, why would someone publish replicatable blueprints on their web
page??  This just doesn't add up.  Didn't the good lord command that "thou
shalt not worship any craven images?"  I think I'll wait for the real
thing.

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!jobone!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!usenet
From: UN93B <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best 10 meter mobile ant
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:49:35 -0800
Organization: Ford Motor Company
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To all the Antenna Guru's:

I want to build a 10 meter antenna for my 89 Grand Am.
Mounting will be bolted in the center of the rooftop.
I'm looking for a design that yields the best all around
performance for a geographically flat area.

Please consider the following:
 1. Unlimited budget.
 2. Unlimited height.
 3. No compromises on performance.


Note: A 1/4 wave counterpoise with a hundred radials
      would be nice (especially if driving lanes were 25 feet wide)
      but is getting too carried away.

Brett


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Arthur Garabedian <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: VHF ANT 2"X3" NEED INFO.
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:50:58 -0800
Organization: westernmobiletel
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.161.153
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I have a low power transmitter 100mw. I am trying to get the most range
from the low power. The space I have to use is about 2" X 3". I first
tried using 1/8" copper tape going in a large rectangle then each time
going with smaller ones until I used up 18" of 1/8" tape. I used a
spectrum analyzer and tuned for max. Then I made a solid 2 x 3 ant. and
tuned it. Is there a better way like 1/2 or copper to ground & 1/2
copper to ant. high. Does anyone know of a better way?
 Thanks, ARTHUR  KC6KUK . . .


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:44 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!pacifier!news.sba.com!feeder.chicago.cic.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.telusplanet.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT
Organization: TELUS Communications Inc.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <56jp05$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wtcopt01-port-2.agt.net
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looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
adam turner
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:45 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Modeling Software
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 12:40:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <568sls$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 32

MS> Anyone used or know anything about NECWin.  It is supposedly Windows
MS> software based on NEC2.  Made by Paragon Technology, which based on

Merv,
I sent privately the msg below to you but it bounced.
--------------------------------------------------------
To: [e-mail]"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net

Merv,
I have a copy of a demo of nec-win.  This would allow
you to get a flavor of the GA version.
As far as I know, it will run under Windows 3.1.

You have to be careful of these programs which
say they run under Win95.  Lots of them are
not special for Win95.  Always ask first if you
are looking for native Win95.

You are welcome to a copy of this demo.

Are you aware of the NEC subscription list?  You need to be
on the WEB for this but from them you can get source
and an executable for free.  This is nec2.
//
 k2bt
------------------------------------------------

If you are interested in getting on that list, let
me know by email. Tnx


 * RM 1.3 02583 *


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:46 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA or MFJ Loops....any good?
Date: 16 Nov 1996 15:45:10 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 15
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Hi Larry--

The small loops are probably the best choice for an application like this.
 As you may have heard, the bandwidth is VERY narrow for these
antennas--which is why they come with motorized tuning.  On the other
hand, actual radiation efficiency is quite high--amazingly high for the
size--and they get out very well when correctly installed.  Another nice
thing is that they function as an extremelly high-Q tuned circuit, and
this helps filter out transmitter harmonics that may cause TVI at the
neighbors house.  There are pro's and con's for both the AEA and MFJ
versions (I design products for MFJ, so I'm biased--and won't get into a
discussion on that point).  However, I would--from a technical solutions
standpoint--recommend either one over other altenatives.

Rick   K1BQT


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:47 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!g4mkr.demon.co.uk!richard
From: "Richard Byford" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna design software
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:16:03 +0000
Organization: None
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd1a5$0b2984e0$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: g4mkr.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: g4mkr.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: NetcPlus 'Pro' - 2.62P  12000042 (c)1994-1996

In the news article <01bbd1a5$0b2984e0$[e-mail]> about
"Antenna design software" dated 13 Nov 1996, it was said by "Xavier
Pedrerol - EA3BHK" <[e-mail]> that ...

> Hi all, can you help me? I'm seeking a good program for antenna
> design, parameters, etc in windows and shareware.
>

MININEC is available in shareware. Its a shareware version of ELNEC,
which is written by W7EL. If don't already have this, let me know and I'll
send the files.

Hope it is of some use to you,

73 de G4MKR






-----------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] using NetcPlus 'Lite' (Lite) 2.62P (Lite)
for Internet News....
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:48 1996
From: [e-mail] (Don Phelps)
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!infoway!don.phelps
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:20:16 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Infoway BBS [phone] 28,800 8-N-1
Lines: 46

Perhaps you could clarify your Quad questions.
What frequency range?
Is this antenna to be optimized for fox hunting?
What is the fox hunt strategy...ie. is this a fixed location
antenna being used to give a bearing as part of a team effort,
or an antenna mounted mobile and used as a hound in persuit?

My thought is that on 2m, folks often are more interested in forward
gain than a sharp null, which could be most useful for direction finding.

The ARRL antenna book describes two dipoles spaced .25 wavelength apart,
with one fed 90 degrees laged. Thus producing a sharp null in the
direction of the lagged element when loaded to take equal current.
This would work the same for two quad elements.
Thus two elements might be most "directive" by means of a null.
But properly built, more directors give more forward gain similar
to the yagi.  But remember, lots of elements usually have minor lobes,
that can take a lot of adjustment to eliminate.
The quad elements might be more convenient in being wide band due
to low Q, with smaller turning radius.

You will want to take measures to eliminate feedline radiation,
and common transmission line currants.

 Ke> I'm planning on taking part in some fox hunts this winter (a local
 Ke> club has one every Sunday during the winter months), and wanted to get
 Ke> some info about quad antennae.  Some of the obvious questions I have
 Ke> already answered, like tuning the antenna to the input freq of the
 Ke> repeater, etc.  Want I want to know is, with a quad, is it the same
 Ke> principle as a Yagi in that the more elements for directors, the more
 Ke> direction sensitive the antenna?  And do the directors have to be
 Ke> smaller than the driver?

The parasitic directors are usually made smaller (shorter) as the easyiest
way.  But there are other less convenient techniques.

   Would adding more than one reflector help
 Ke> any?  How close do you have to be before the DF properties of a quad
 Ke> are useless?

Your receiver cannn't be overloading.

Don, N6MCE

... [e-mail]  1:125/104 POBox 9739 San Rafael,CA 94912
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:49 1996
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From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Is a Power Divider N
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 13:42:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <568sls$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 17

WW> I suspect someone took off with this fact, misapplied it in an artic
WW> on the air by adapting it to phased arrays, and it became accepted a
WW> fact.

I think this got started back in 1978 when Dana Atchley
published an article in QST using Wilkenson power
splitters for a 4square array.  Dana mistakenly
overlooked the effects of mutual impedance between
verticals.  He assumed all verticals were at their self-Z.

This has been picked up in other articles and books
and like reflected power being lost power, will
never die.
//
 k2bt

 * RM 1.3 02583 *


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:50 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!shealey
From: [e-mail] (Steven Healey)
Subject: [Q]Lightning Protection
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: lightning antenna
Keywords: lightning
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:08:12 GMT
Lines: 28
Sender: [e-mail]

Hello,
I have just installed an AR270 dual band (UHF/VHF) vertical on the roof.
This is my first outdoors antenna installation.
I attached it to the top of the water system/steam heating vent (1.75" metal
pipe). (SWR is 1.1:1) :)
It is now the tallest structure on the roof and about 2 ft taller than TV
antenna which is located on the other side of the building.

This apartment building is in a narrow valley in a densely populated
urban area and every other building in the neighborhood is taller
and has taller TV antennas.

Is the vent pipe sufficient ground? In this neighborhood, is this antenna
more susceptible to lightening than the Tv antennas? Should I run a
dedicated ground wire? (It was tough enough to get the OK to put up the
antenna--a ground wire on the outside of the building would be pushing it.)

BTW, I can't afford to buy them a new apartment building if this one
burns. :)

Thanks in advance.
73.
Steve


--
 [e-mail]  KF6GYP
 standard disclaimers apply


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:51 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.idt.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsbuffer.myriad.net!news.myriad.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA or MFJ Loops....any good?
Date: 16 Nov 1996 19:29:54 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <56l4ni$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup549.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>Hi Larry--
>
>The small loops are probably the best choice for an application like this.
> As you may have heard, the bandwidth is VERY narrow for these
>antennas--which is why they come with motorized tuning.  On the other
>hand, actual radiation efficiency is quite high--amazingly high for the
>size--and they get out very well when correctly installed.  Another nice
>thing is that they function as an extremelly high-Q tuned circuit, and
>this helps filter out transmitter harmonics that may cause TVI at the
>neighbors house.  There are pro's and con's for both the AEA and MFJ
>versions (I design products for MFJ, so I'm biased--and won't get into a
>discussion on that point).  However, I would--from a technical solutions
>standpoint--recommend either one over other altenatives.
>
>Rick   K1BQT

   Either device can also be put inside the most striking carousel mockup
   you ever saw that masquerades as a BIRD FEEDER...

   Of course the neighbors may wonder why none ever feed there, but
   then..   When they DO find out, you may have to answer to the SPCA,
   but then...

   any port in a storm...

   :)

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Subject: Re: Vibroplex web page up...
Followup-To: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Date: 16 Nov 1996 15:15:23 -0500
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <56l7cr$[e-mail]>
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References: <[e-mail]> <01bbd34c$838c3600$3900cace@mich
elle>
Distribution:

Mitch, W4OA ([e-mail]) wrote:


: Mitch, WA4OSR <[e-mail]> wrote in article
: <[e-mail]>...
: > The Vibroplex web page is now up at-
: > http://www.vibroplex.com
: >
: > check it out, and give me your feedback...
: >

: oops, gave my wrong email address... correct address is:
: [e-mail]    or
: [e-mail]

: mitch, w4oa

Suggest retail prices for wach of the keys would be nice...
--
Jeff Maass       ([e-mail])      Amateur Radio K8ND
      USPSA/IPSC # L-1192   NROI/CRO          NW of Columbus Ohio


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 16 Nov 1996 20:54:15 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 40
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Some corrections to your comments, gentlemen:

1) the equation for the MI2 'bending' is given as eq'n 1 in Fractal
Antennas Part 1. Using the diagrams as a guide is equally acceptable, even
preferable as the bending can be done, by hand, with aluminum ground wire
in a short time.

2) I believe that the outer 'side' of MI2 is listed as 0.53 waves in at
least 2 of the articles--and several times too. This is for the lowest
resonant frequency. Hence the size of the antenna has been expressed
relative to wavelength. I imagine that one could use the information of 1)
and 2) to get the perimeter as needed; I either started with a long strand
of wire to be bent, or just etched the whole thing on circuit board. Easy.

3) I believe I referred to MI2 as a 'super' antenna, not a 'superior'
antenna, unless you might give an exact published or newsgroup qoute which
I do not recall.

4) The dipole which K1BQT refers to is not an optimized small dipole, nor
is in any way described as such. At its next resonance it affords about 4
dBd, and that, in fact, is what the article describes in depth. The lower
resonance is used to point out that the configuration is multiband--not
harmonically. I guess that you could regard the MI2 LOOP as being
geometrically constructed from 4 of these DIPOLES. Obviously the resonant
frequency of 1 does not correspond to the other.

5) As a point of information-- the RADIATION RESISTANCE of MI2 at its
lowest resonance exceeds  about 25 ohms.

I would like to know on what basis K1BQT believes that inadequate
information was provided for building the MI2.


This antenna is covered by pending patent and is not public
domain.However, that does not prevent private experimentation--ergo
publication. Commercial queries on fractal antennas should be faxed to:
617-489-6207.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!gatech!csulb.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: 17 Nov 1996 01:08:29 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 49
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Tom,

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
writes:

>lived in mostly small locations.  I have not owned or made a DDRR,
>but in a sense I did make one.  I had one of the MFJ-1786 loop
>antennas on loan when I made a business trip to Dallas.  I had a
>new TS-450SAT and wanted to take it with me mobile.  Rather than
>buy a mobile antenna, I made do with the loop antenna.  This was in
>1993 when the bands were very bad.  The MFJ loop covers 10-30 great
>either horizontal or vertical oriented.  In deciding to use the
>loop, I remembered reading the article on the DDRR, and figured
>that the loop would be a fairly close approximation to the DDRR.


Tom, you had a loop antenna, not a DDRR. They are completely different
antennas.

>to operate.  Don't know if you'd call this a DDRR, but if it looks
>like a duck, and you can make duck soup out of it, maybe it's the
>real McCoy.  Then again, maybe it just tastes like [a part of(which
>part)] chicken.

If it carries uniform current in a single spatial plane, and all current
remains in the structure, it is a small loop.

If it is a short vertical radiator loaded by an open ended single wire
transmission line folded in a circle over an image, it is a DDRR.

The loop you used has been measured, and the efficiency on 14 MHz when
mounted high and in the clear is around 20%.

When a horizontal loop is mounted close to a groundplane, radiation
opposing currents are produced in the groundplane. The opposing current in
the groundplane is the very reason the DDRR does NOT radiate appreciably
from its' horizontal loading section. This current seriously degrades loop
performance when the loop is mounted at low heights.

20% is good for an antenna that size, but it will have nowhere near that
efficiency mounted horizontally on a car. Even the manual for that loop
antenna indicates with less than 20 feet of  height, vertical mounting is
better.

A vertically polarized radiator would have been much better at that
height. Your duck soup came from something with talons instead of webs.
:-)

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:58 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 01:08:31 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 49
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (A N
Thompson) writes:

>For optimum performance, vertical antennas much longer than
>1/4-wavelength require radials longer than 1/4-wavelength.  For
>example, with a half-wavelength vertical the greatest current
>density is about 0.35 wavelengths away from the base of the
>antenna.  Therefore, there will be increased ground losses if the
>radials are only 1/4-wavelength long.  Devoldere, in "Low-Band
>DXing" (2nd ed.), states that "a half-wave vertical requires 0.6-
>wavelength-long radials to perform as well as the quarter-wave
>vertical with 1/4-wave radial" (see fig. 9-40).
>73,
>Arliss
>W7XU

Hi Arliss,

Something has been mixed up in ON4UN's statement. While it is generally
true that current peaks further out in the radials, the overall ground
system loss is much less with a 1/2 wl than a 1/4 wl radiator..regardless
of ground system size.

Besides that, even a 1/4 wl's efficiency  improves when the ground system
is extended to 1/2 wl. (Brown, Lewis and Epstein, 1930's RCA study).

Power loss involves the acumulation of losses (defined as current squared
times resistance) at all points surrounding the antenna. Lower current
density per unit volume of area surrounding the radiator always produces
higher efficiency under a given set of soil conditions.

For any fixed set of radial conditions, base radiation resistance
increases and ground termination losses (via reduced base current)
decrease as antenna height is increased up to ~160-180 degrees. (ref
Chapter 20 Medium Frequency BC Antennas, Jasik's Antenna Engineering
Handbook )

The field at the earth's surface also goes down as the current loop is
elevated above earth. ( ref IEEE Antennas and Propagation magazine, 35 no
3 June 1993.) This reduces induced current loss.

The half wave radiator, for any given radial system, always has less
ground loss than a half wave radiator.

Skywave propagation efficiency is reduced when using a 1/2 wl vertical.
More radiated energy is confined to lossy low wave angles, but even 1/2 wl
long radials won't fix that problem.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:38:59 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.wwa.com!news
From: [e-mail] (M Simon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 07:50:12 GMT
Organization: Space-Time Productions
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <56mg3n$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.230.95.11
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I would say:

   I am sorry I stated your apparent conflict of interest as
fact.

Simon

-------------------------------------------------------------------


[e-mail] (.) wrote:

>In article <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]>,
>   "James S. Kaplan" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>ARRL lawyer to sue member
>>
>>The following is a copy of a message I received today from
>>ARRL General Counsel Christopher D. Imlay N3AKD:
>>
>>
>>To:       James S. Kaplan, KG7FU
>>Copies:   Mary Lou Brown, NM7N
>>          Terry Baun
>>          John Poray
>>Date:     July 16, 1996
>>Re:       Your article, SBE Chapter 124 Newsletter, July, 1996
>>**************************************************************
>>
>>     Jim, I have just finished reading your article in the July,
>>1996 Water Cooled Newsletter, page 6. In it, you argue that two of
>>my clients, the American Radio Relay League, Inc. and the Society
>>of Broadcast Engineers, Inc. should cooperate in certain government
>>relations projects, specifically spectrum protection. You note that
>>I serve as the General Counsel for both organizations. You then
>>jump from that argument to the following, which I quote:
>>
>>     If Mr. Imlay can't resolve HIS OWN conflicts of interest,
>>     perhaps both ARRL and SBE should be seeking more
>>     effective counsel. No offense Chris, but we have work to
>>     do. We should not only be sending a message to the FCC
>>     and Congress, but to other radio industries.
>>
>>                              (emphasis in original)
>>
>>It is not useful for me to educate you on the subject of your
>>article to correct the errors in it, and I do not intend to do so.
>>What I do intend, however, is for you to print a retraction, in
>>unambiguous terms, in a form acceptable to me, and to furnish to
>>me, in writing, an assurance that such will be printed in the next
>>Chapter Newsletter for Chapter 124. Failing that, I am going to sue
>>you in the District of Columbia for libel.
>>
>>     I have no intention of allowing you to falsely allege that I
>>have a conflict of interest in representing two of my best clients,
>>especially in an SBE publication. You are not entitled to damage my
>>reputation as a lawyer, which you have done in your article, or to
>>infer (without any basis at all) that I have violated the canons of
>>ethics governing attorneys, by which I govern my actions.
>>
>>     I will await your response.
>>
>>Chris Imlay, N3AKD
>>
>Great response! People need to express their thoughts and opinions without th
e threat
>of legal action!

>Dave
>[e-mail]

In the end people get the government they deserve.

Read "The Weapon Shops of Isher" by A.E. vanVogt

Simon



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:00 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp.cntfl.com!usenet
From: Joe Leikhim <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Subject: Re: Parabolic dish
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 03:05:21 -0500
Organization: CMDS News machine
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a 5 to 6 foot non-solid parabolic dish (like a rib type)
> to use on 1296 mhz.  I have my own feeds to use.  Does anyone know of a
> source for such??
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------> Thi
s article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
> http://www.dejanews.com/           [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News]

Why not buy a used or new TVRO dish? Should work just fine at 1296.
--
Joe Leikhim
[e-mail]

"tv dinner by the pool,
i'm so glad i finished school" -F.Zappa 1967

"The Revolution will NOT be televised" -Gil Scott Heron




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: antenna tower
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:15:47 GMT
Organization: IDT
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I have a 45 foot antenna tower to dismantle; but do not know how to
approach the problem.  The tower is free-standing and is too close to
other things: buildings, power lines, etc. to lay the tower down.
Does anyone have any suggestions?



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (perper)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 17 Nov 96 13:28:54 GMT
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subscribe


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:02 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: best antenna for scanning 25 Mhz - 1300 Ghz
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:59:46 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Chances are the discone works fine for most of the frequencies in that
range. Depending on the biggest cone diameter, I suspect that antenna was
not designed to operate (well) at 25MHz; certainly doubt its resonant down
there and probably doesn't kick in til 120 MHz (I speculate; you didn't
give size).

Getting something that broadband (BTW its 1300 'MHz') is a tuffy at a
reasonable price. Spiral mode antennae would do the trick but they're
usually only available for  the military crowd and are mega-expensive.
Regretably not at Radio Shack, for example. I too would be interested to
know a commercial antenna that does this as a single entity, without
preamp.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Subscribe
Date: 17 Nov 1996 14:02:52 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Well, that's weird; this was sent to [e-mail], not the newsgroup
as a thread. Don't know why it was put here as a reply.  Anyone know how
to get the ham antenna digest volumes?

Thanks!
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:04 1996
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From: KI4RO <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 14:41:10 GMT
Organization: Monumental Network Systems
Lines: 24
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <56n866$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ki4ro.mnsinc.com

Hal,

  The G5RV is simply a center fed Zepp specifically designed to work
without a tuner on 20 meters.  You can build your own center fed Zepp
without having to buy a commercial G5RV and probably do it for less
money.  Talk to some of the older members in your local ham club and ask
them for guidance.  I've had a Zepp up for about 5 years now and it works
wonderfully on all bands, including the WARC bands, from 80 to 10.
Mine is about 132 feet long and fed with 300 ohm twin lead which goes to
a 4:1 balun.  From the 4:1 balun I run 50 ohm coax into the shack.
73
John

Hal Rosser AE4YN <[e-mail]> writes: > I'm a new ham, & would like
decent antenna to work
> 80, 40, 20, 15, &10... Does the G5RV work ok on these
> bands ? I have an old MFJ941c tuner, will it suffice to work
> with it? (running about 100 w from TS520s)
> Anyone with experience on this antenna? Or can suggest a better
> and simpler cheap multiband wire antenna?
> --
> 73'S de AE4YN
> Hal
> [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:05 1996
From: Craig Still <[e-mail]>
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Thank you for the information.

C.Still




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:05 1996
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From: [e-mail](MICHAEL J DRUM)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Subject: Want Kenwood IF-10D Computer Interface.
Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:14:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <56na4m$[e-mail]>
References: <56l7cr$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.swap:95578 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31683 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20140 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42520 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21172 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118328 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43234 rec.radio.amateur.space:8832 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1334

Greetings,

I want to buy a Kenwood IF-10D Computer interface for my TS-60. If you
have one for sale please contact me at my Email address and let me know
the details. I will answer all reply's sent.

Thank You.

Mike>



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:06 1996
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From: [e-mail](MICHAEL J DRUM)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Subject: Any mod info for Kenwood TS-60 Transceiver?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:19:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <56nadb$[e-mail]>
References: <56l7cr$[e-mail]>
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Greetings,

I am looking for any mod info on the Kenwood TS-60 six meter all mode
transceiver. I was unable to get any applicable info from Kenwood's web
site on this transceiver, so I now turn to the internet for help.

Any info would be appreciated. All reply's will be answered.

Thanks.

Mike>



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Stiner)
Date: 17 Nov 96 15:26:00
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-FTN-To: [e-mail]
Organization: MAG Systems, Inc/TFP BBS
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Lines: 14


LM>If you have the space.....the G5RV is a great all-band antenna. As long
  >as you stay away from 160 meters your MFJ should handle it just fine.
  >G5RV's have been a staple at our club's Field Day effort for years with
  >good results.  I that WAS and DXCC can easily be had using one.  Good
  >luck!

I have had good luck with the G5RV on that band.  From DU, worked some
asian countries.  Not the best, but for an all in one antenna, it does a
good job.

---
   OLX 1.53   73 DE: NK2U   E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
--


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:10 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:37:18 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 32
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Concerning Chip's comment:

"I would like to know on what basis K1BQT believes that inadequate
information was provided for building the MI2."

Reply:

I see, in Fractals II (P58, Summer '96 Comm Quart Table-2), you modeled
MI0 with a "resonance ratio"  of .45 for comparison with MI3 and .52 for
comparison the MI2.  Since I hadn't seen this term used by other authors
and couldn't find it in the Modern Dictionary of Electronics, I wasn't
entierly sure what it meant--and I   didn't want to make a bad assumption.
 Thanks for clarifying it.

Also, before there are any other mis-understandings, let me make my
motivation perfectly clear.  Tom started this thread requesting specific
sizing information for a MI2.  I am not interested in evaluating the MI2.
I think you have provided plenty of data on its performance and I don't
feel a need to contest the validity of your numbers.  My only interest is
to define a square box of similar AREA to the MI2 and the MI0 which was
used as a reference--and to investigate what other performance
possibilities might exist for various wire configurations that would fit
into a box of similar size.  In other words, I'd like to be able to
include the MI2 and MI0 in my comparison, but have no interest in making
the MI2 the focus of that comparison.  My original thought was to define
the limits at 1/8-wavelength per side--and this now appears to be close
enough for all intents and purposes.

Finally, since fractal loops aren't my primary focus, I will be happy to
move this discussion onto a different thread with a more appropriate name.

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:10 1996
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From: "Jorge E. Forero M." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 17 Nov 1996 16:21:24 GMT
Organization: T-Net
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.136.192.131
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
Is better like a simple dipolo?
Can you tell me?
Thanks in advance...
Jorge
YV6EDA
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:11 1996
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From: "Gerhart Hlawatsch" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: ARRL-book
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:29:49 +0100
Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster, Germany
Lines: 7
Sender: "Gerhart Hlawatsch" <[e-mail]>
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Thank you all for your offers.

finally I got a copy from someone
not very far from me.

best regards
Gerhart


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:12 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Power Divider Necessary?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 17:58:58 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 32
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) writes:

> think this got started back in 1978 when Dana Atchley
>published an article in QST using Wilkenson power
>splitters for a 4square array.  Dana mistakenly
>overlooked the effects of mutual impedance between
>verticals.  He assumed all verticals were at their self-Z.
>
>This has been picked up in other articles and books
>and like reflected power being lost power, will
>never die.
>//
> k2bt

Hi Forrest,

Yes, evey thing I've seen makes me agree with you. The closer I look, the
less merit in a power divider there is.

As a matter of fact, when I use 1/4 wl transmission lines and vary the
load, using a T or wilkensen actually makes current distribution and
radiated power LESS equal, not better.

One reason is the 1/4 wl lines between the loads and phase shift
network/common point need equal voltage at the source, not equal current.
A second problem is if the lines are 1/4 wl, adding any delay line changes
the length and impedance transformation of one line.

The whole scheme seems to make little sense.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:15 1996
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From: Richard Kiefer <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tower Safety
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:48:58 -0700
Organization: Kiefer Electronic Development
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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I know a professional tower installer/climber who does wear a parachute
when climbing towers at over 200-300 feet.  He says that he uses a chute
which will open in less than 200 feet which weighs about 20 pounds.  It
also contains a sling which he uses for a safety attachment.

Who knows if this type of thing would ever be useful but in either a
fall from the tower, or a tower collapse, it might be possible to get
away.  Of course if you got safely hung up in a still standing part of
the tower before you hit the ground that would not be all bad.

I think you would have to have the training and presence of mind to bail
out and pull the cord to do any good.  The guy I am thinking about is a
former Navy combat fighter pilot who has crashed a few airplanes, so
maybe for him it might just work.

If anybody gets the real factual story on the Texas tower collapse
please post it here for interest and maybe so we can learn a few things.
For exampe, I always worry about droping antennas and stuff through my
guy wires while on the tower.  I do not use Philistrand partly for that
reason.

Gives me the creeps just thinking about it.  Happy safe climbing to all!

Dick, K0DK


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:15 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best 10 meter mobile ant
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:55:14 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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UN93B wrote:
>  2. Unlimited height.

Hi Brett, height is necessarily limited to around 14-16 ft.
because of the overpasses. It's hard to beat an 8.25ft whip
for single-band 10m operation. I use an autotuner and a 14ft
whip to cover 20m-10m. I'm going to run some field strength
tests on 10m to settle an argument over whether a 14ft whip
beats an 8.25ft whip for 10m mobile.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:16 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:32:33 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56n866$[e-mail]>
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KI4RO wrote:
> Mine is about 132 feet long and fed with 300 ohm twin lead which goes to
> a 4:1 balun.  From the 4:1 balun I run 50 ohm coax into the shack.

Hi John, how do you know what impedance your balun is seeing? Depending
on the length of twin lead, it might be seeing something around 15 ohms.
A 4:1 balun will try to take that to 4 ohms which is going the wrong way.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: MNJR or YA or update ??
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:00:11 GMT
Organization: BuffNET
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <56o2b3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dppp51.buffnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hello,

I'm uncertain as to which way to go here. I have used YA (comes with
antenna handbook) to model changes to established designs based on
materials on hand.

Now I'm interested in modeling multi-array systems (EME, Aurora, etc)
to better understand stacking distance etc. I want to retain the
ability to study longwires & quads as well.

I have a copy of K1STIs' MNJR also.  Quite dated by todays standards.

What is the best all purpose modeling program in use out there ??

[e-mail] (AA2GF)







From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help Using Transmission Lines with EZNEC
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 23:50:59 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <56o8dd$[e-mail]>
References: <56g699$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   Scott Ellington <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Walt Kornienko wrote:
>>
>> I have been having a struggle trying to model an array spaced
>> 1/8 wave and fed 135 degrees out of phase using coaxial
>> cable, or open wire, as the delay line. Using a formula to
>> come up with the precise length of phase line, taking into
>> account Vf, the pattern of the antenna doesn't correlate to
>> what a 135 degree phase shift should produce. Any tips will
>> helpful.
>>
>A common misconception.  A transmission line only results in
>a phase shift equal to its electrical length when it is matched,
>which is certainly not the case here.  Matching each feedpoint of
>a driven array is not trivial.  No doubt there are a large number
>of non-functional driven arrays out there as a result.  (I've
>built a few of them myself.)
>
>Using the transmission line feature of EZNEC, you can model
>the actual results with a mismatched transmission line.  It CAN
>be made to work, as in the case of the HB9CV antenna.
>
>W7EL is far better qualified to comment than I am, so perhaps Roy
>will respond.

I agree with Scott. A lot of what I've learned is in Chapter 8 of the ARRL
Antenna Book. You might also check "The Simplest Phased Array Feed System
-- That Works" in the ARRL Antenna Compendium, Vol. 2. It shows how you can
feed some types of arrays with just coax. But the lengths of the coax are
usually very different than you would expect (for the reason Scott
mentioned). I have, and you can, verify the designs in the Compendium
article with EZNEC or NEC-2.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:19 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 01:24:05 GMT
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Hi Tom--

In the paper, the modelled directivities are lossless; copper losses not
included. The info packet includes wire losses in its comparisons to
provide something more meaningful.

What you need to compare are an MI2 and a quad loop of the same outer side
length. The  quad loop needs to be loaded and both antennas must have
copper losses included for relative FS comparisons.[Note: fractal loop
should be resonant with a rad resistance of about 25 ohms--I DO mean rad
resistance as the current max is at the feedpoint. No loading on the
fractal. Let wire losses go to zero to find rad resistance on the fractal
, then turn on again for feedpoint resistance and FS.] This is nothing I
haven't told you already (or anyone else for that matter). I have made FS
comparisons since Roy suggested this was the best means of comparison.
That was August. Let me know your wire widths and frequencies and we can
compare some model results. How's that?

I would be interested in other antennas you come up with in that square
and how they compare, particularly one without discrete components to make
it resonate. I certainly know your inclination is to consider a fat dipole
(or loop) with end loading.

P.S> With UHF MI2's at fairly wide wire widths on circuit board you get
within less than a dB of a dipole with a 3-4% bandwidth for 2:1 VSWR.
Pattern is a dipole-like one. Side lengths about 1/7 waves; the antenna
got a bit larger when you increase wire width, and the return loss
improves. These are measured results from customer tests; comparable with
what I get here from measurement and modelling.

73
Chip N1IR



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Simons)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HF6V high SWR on 80 M
Date: 18 Nov 96 05:20:14 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 14
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
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Jack,  As I added radials to my HF2V (not HF6V) the reasonance and bandwidth c
hanged a
lot.  I had to shorten (lower the inductance of) the DC grounding coil across
the
feedline terminals to get a good match.  You may have already tried this.  One
 problem I
am having with my vertical on 80 meters is the VSWR changes with an increase i
n power.
I don't mean simply more reflected power but the VSWR goes higher when I turn
on the
Alpha.  At 100 watts or less the VSWR is acceptable.  When I first QRO it is O
K.  I work
mostly CW and as I continue to transmitt the VSWR will continue to increase un
til I quit
sending.  When I first key down is VSWR is OK.  The longer I send the higher t
he VSWR
gets.  I suspect the capacitor in the 80 meter tuning section.  I do not have
this
problem on 40 meters.  The antenna handles the legal limit on 40 with no probl
em.
Anyone have any ideas on this?

73 de W8AF, Anthony            [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:21 1996
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From: Chris Gomoiu <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Creative LPA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:19:09 +0200
Organization: A.T.R. electronics
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Hi,

I'm considering as my base station antenna a Creative log periodic
design covering 50MHz to 1300MHz. Wondering if anybody using such
an antenna wants to share with me his findings regarding the gain
and directivity.
The 10-12dbi gain claimed by the manufacturer seems a little high
for such a wide frequency array.

Best regards,

Chris, 4Z5JA



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dick Boley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Eggbeaters for Ham LEOs ?
Date: 18 Nov 96 12:12:50 GMT
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Is it reasonable to use two M-sq eggbeaters (2mtr & 70cm) for Oscar LEO
satellites.
Moving to a condo and can mount on the deck. I would assume that the radial
package is a must??????

Thanks - Dick  N3HKN  Pittsburgh, PA.

Regards,
Dick Boley
Sales Engineering
Westinghouse Communications
412-247-7756



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:23 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 12:42:24 GMT
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RE: Rick's comment.

Yes Rick, it IS fun to know that sort of stuff. It also helps to know the
platform, the environment, and oodles of other  things. Let's just say
that I  used hardline and chokes in the comparisons and I see no reason to
provide you with hours of posts on experimental procedure. The data I
provided you is at 900 MHz and is unpublished. Until I publish it you may
choose to discount it entirely if you wish, as a newsgroup is not a
substitute for publication and I will not use it as such. In other words,
you may ignore the courtesy (of results) as you wish.

When someone checks it out on their own equipment for a commercial
evaluation I am  often not privy to their testing procedures nor need to
be.  They stick it in/on  their box (cell phone, for example) and test it.
What's important is that we get the same values within experimental error
and it meets a customer's needs.

Regarding the circuit board used,  you know what circuit board was used as
YOU HAVE A SAMPLE MI2 ON CIRCUIT BOARD. Indeed, your WHOLE PREMISE on not
having enough info to build an MI2 is, at best, moot, at worst baiting,
because you have had one in your possession since April. Or did you and
Terry lose it?! Why don't you test that,  or blow it up on a xerox machine
and make another for experimenting. Hey--its Ok with me if you have some
FUN with this antenna, as long as it not being manufactured by you or
others for commercial purposes. I certainly enjoy it. Please drop this
ruse of saying you don't have enough information to build one. It really
does everyone here a disservice, and you might wish to explain this point
to thread readers.

You know, I could have just kept the entire fractal antenna stuff under
wraps only as patents but instead was a good doobie and also published
some info. If you're unhappy with that--fine. I agree that fractal
antennas are not magic and do not break physical laws. Both points are in
my publications.

Can others build an MI2? Answer: the data has been amply provided.
Diagrams, equations, resonant frequencies, bandwidths, sizes----all
published. In fact, rather than providing information on this thread, you
are going under the premise it doesn't exist when--in fact-- you have it
on hand.

I offered to photocopy Tom an EZNEC diagram and was not answered, so I
withdraw the offer.

In other words, I have severe doubts on the motivation of your present
questions, gentlemen, unless you can convince me otherwise. Have fun on
the thread. I won't be today's catch, nor waste time in a flame war. As
usual, I can be reached via e-mail for legitimate queries from others..

73
Chip N1IR.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:24 1996
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From: Clif <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.dx
Subject: Re: Any mod info for Kenwood TS-60 Transceiver?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:36:29 -0600
Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP;  Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA
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To: MICHAEL J DRUM <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.swap:95655 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31718 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20149 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42564 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21185 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118370 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43252 rec.radio.amateur.space:8839 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1340

MICHAEL J DRUM wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I am looking for any mod info on the Kenwood TS-60 six meter all mode
> transceiver. I was unable to get any applicable info from Kenwood's web
> site on this transceiver, so I now turn to the internet for help.
>
> Any info would be appreciated. All reply's will be answered.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike>

There is one technical bulletin and one parts change bulletin out on the
TS-60. There are no mod sheets. What do you want it to do???

Clif
[e-mail]
AVVid is an authorized Kenwood and Icom Service Center


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:25 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Brian Short)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160m Antenna?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 08:40:04 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <56q00k$[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: @198.68.46.53 (ke7gh)
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

I have a 40 acre ranch in East-Central Arizona, so space is no problem.
Not living there presently, I have no towers there and there are no high
trees...

How do I put up an EFFECTIVE 160m antenna?

Obviously I can install full-size elevated radials, but what do I use
for a vertical radiating element?

I have seen these HF-2V antennas which can be fitted with an adapter for
160m, but isn't that just a stick of aluminum BASE loaded?

I'll build or buy, what do I do?

Again, THERE ARE NO HIGH SUPPORTS THERE!

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:26 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:55:04 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hi Chip,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>What you need to compare are an MI2 and a quad loop of the same outer
side
>length. The  quad loop needs to be loaded and both antennas must have
>copper losses included for relative FS comparisons

Understood.

.[Note: fractal loop
>should be resonant with a rad resistance of about 25 ohms--I DO mean rad
>resistance as the current max is at the feedpoint. No loading on the
>fractal. Let wire losses go to zero to find rad resistance on the fractal
>, then turn on again for feedpoint resistance and FS.]

That is not radiation resistance resistance by IRE methode of the
effective current causing the radiation unless the antenna has ONE current
peak.

In any event, radiation resistance is a meaningless parameter when
comparing two dissimilar structures. It tells us nothing at all about
relative efficiencies.

>I have made FS
>comparisons since Roy suggested this was the best means of comparison.
>That was August. Let me know your wire widths and frequencies and we can
>compare some model results. How's that?

Did you make FS comparisons, or make comparisons of models? In any event,
Roy is correct.

>I would be interested in other antennas you come up with in that square
>and how they compare, particularly one without discrete components to
make
>it resonate. I certainly know your inclination is to consider a fat
dipole
>(or loop) with end loading.

Actually my inclination is to create uniform in-phase current.

Inmodels on Ez-nec, with a copper loss end loaded H antenna, I get 1.7 dB.
With a coil loaded loop (coil Q ~300) , about 1.7 dB.
The loop is less efficient and has much less BW than the H, but has
greater E plane directivity. The bandwidth of the H antenna is much larger
(bw>10 loop), but I need to model it again to get an exact value.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:27 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:55:06 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>Tom, if you want to take an attitude of sloppiness on my part I'm going
to
>stop right now. We've had too much of this baiting stuff and no one wants
>to read it.  So if you guys want me to help you on this, don't use
>comments like "couldn't find it in the Modern Dictionary of Electronics",
>or "their should have been an explanation for that...". The first time I
>use a term that sounds unfamiliar to the reader I define it.

Hi Chip,

My appologies for that. I didn't intend that to apply to just you. That
flaw is too common these days in many articles.

My opinion is authors, **AND editors**, should look at the slang in
technical articles much closer. Use of excess jargon confuses everyone,
and often wastes space. I was taught early on to avoid all jargon
(especially when "teaching") , and explain things in the most common words
available.

I only have access to some of the articles. Even if I had them all, I
wouldn't want to read through a "book" from end to end looking for
definitions of non-standard engineering terms. I honestly feel most
readers would agree that non-standard or uncommon terms need explained in
a glossary of terms, and not buried in text.

Most readers, unless it is a textbook, won't read a whole series of
articles from end to end.

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>What you need to compare are an MI2 and a quad loop of the same outer
side
>length. The  quad loop needs to be loaded and both antennas must have
>copper losses included for relative FS comparisons

Understood. Let me explain the reason I want to look at this. It is my
undersatnding that the area of a antenna limits the radiation efficiency,
and that a few simple rules define this criteria. I am not a subscriber to
Chaotic Sciences as a description of all things in life, I think the leap
from smoke rings, clouds  and shorelines to simple mechanics is invalid.

If you can prove application of chaos to something conventionally designed
by traditional physics that is a great step. I'm looking for that proof,
and to do that I need to sort through what you are attempting to do.

My thought and design processes, as a traditional theorist and designer,
are non-choatic.

>[Note: fractal loop
>should be resonant with a rad resistance of about 25 ohms--I DO mean rad
>resistance as the current max is at the feedpoint. No loading on the
>fractal. Let wire losses go to zero to find rad resistance on the fractal
>, then turn on again for feedpoint resistance and FS.]

That is not radiation resistance resistance by IRE methode of the
effective current causing the radiation unless the antenna has ONE current
peak.

In any event, radiation resistance is a meaningless parameter when
comparing two dissimilar structures. It tells us nothing at all about
relative efficiencies.

>I have made FS
>comparisons since Roy suggested this was the best means of comparison.
>That was August. Let me know your wire widths and frequencies and we can
>compare some model results. How's that?

Did you make FS comparisons, or make comparisons of models? In any event,
Roy is correct.

>I would be interested in other antennas you come up with in that square
>and how they compare, particularly one without discrete components to
make
>it resonate. I certainly know your inclination is to consider a fat
dipole
>(or loop) with end loading.

Actually my inclination is to create uniform in-phase current.

In models on Ez-nec, with a copper loss end loaded H antenna, I get 1.7
dB. With a coil loaded loop (coil Q ~300) , about 1.7 dB.
The loop is less efficient and has much less BW than the H, but has
greater E plane directivity. The bandwidth of the H antenna is much larger
(bw>10 loop), but I need to model it again to get an exact value.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:29 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:55:09 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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Hi Alan,

In article <56p1o5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Alan
Fowler) writes:

>       Something that isn't often taken into account is the "skin effect"
of
>the earth.  It's a long time since I looked seriously at this, but my
>recollection is that the skin effect in "good" soil is about 40 feet
>at 1 MHz.  That means that a substantial part of the current has to
>curve upwards to flow into the base of the aerial, with the maximum
>losses in an annular voulme about a third of a wavelength from the
>antenna base.

Those are the approximate numbers as I understand them.

>       Again, if I remember rightly, the ground plane (the radials) has
to
>terminate the electric field produced by the antenna as well as
>collect the returning current from the far field.

I don't agree with that "picture". That is what throws people off in their
analysis.

For example, Devoldere claims if a single elevated radial is used, all
displacement current "flows" ( we know there are no real charge movements,
just field effects so I use the term "flow" loosely)  between the radial
and antenna.

This is totally untrue because displacement current "flows" between the
radial and earth and earth and the antenna. The lossy soil is still very
much in this path.

>This is why we use
>so many radials at M.F.  We also keep them as close to the surface as
>possible to reduce dielectric losses, but deep enough for the soil to
>be moist enough for good contact.  It's a balancing act.

Our conclusions are the same, but we part company a bit here Alan.

We need no earth contact at all with time varying currents in the system.
The induction fields (electric and magnetic) as well as radiation fields
couple the wire very tightly to the earth, so long as the radial is close
to the earth in terms of wavelength and physical aperture.

Imagine two parallel 60 foot wires excited with 7 MHz RF. Measure current
in one while exciting the other. Move the wires together or apart and you
will see little change in coupling until the wires are a large fraction of
their length apart. Once they are even a few feet apart, it is like they
are connected.

So the earth "connection" is made anytime the radial is anywhere near
earth, direct contact ONLY effects dc and very low frequency signals.

In all the rest, we seem to agree (except there is no "returning current
from the far field"). The antenna emits EM fields, it is not an electron
gun. If the system required return current, we would play hell
communicating with satellites, working EME, or listening to galactic
emissions.

Return current is a misnomer, and should be withdrawn from discussions of
verticals. My horizontal dipole antenna has just as much ground loss as my
vertical for the same field intensity per given volume of soil, and it has
no "return current".

73, Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:30 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:55:10 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
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In article <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]>, "Jorge E.
Forero M." <[e-mail]> writes:

>
>I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
>Is better like a simple dipolo?
>Can you tell me?

A simple dipole at the same height is about 10-12 dB better on 14 MHz if
you have the room .

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Terry Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:21:02 -0600
Organization: Exec-PC
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Message-ID: <56q2de$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.execpc.com

Thankyou for reading this. I am trying to shunt feed my 60 ft free
standing universal tower. I have a mosley pro-57b at 60 ft with 8 feet of
mast above that with a 2 meter vertical at the top of the mast. All my
attempts to feed the tower on 80 meters have resulted in a match of no
better than 4 to 1 swr. The tower is grounded and connected to a buried
radial system. The match is currently at 28 feet with a 2 foot spacing
made of half inch electrical conduit. For capacitance I used 4 feet of
rg-8u at 25pf per foot to get the tower to dip at about 3.700. However I
should be able to get a better match. I have tried the tap down to about
20 feet and 1 foot spacing with no success. Is there a way to calculate
where the tap and spacing shound be. This shooting in the dark is a pain.
I dont see what I am doing wrong.



--
-----
Terry Hubbard                  Internet:[e-mail]
Cudahy, WI                     Compuserve: 75347,2614



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:32 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:35:59 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 40
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Chip Commented:

Regarding the circuit board used,  you know what circuit board was used as
YOU HAVE A SAMPLE MI2 ON CIRCUIT BOARD. Indeed, your WHOLE PREMISE on not
having enough info to build an MI2 is, at best, moot, at worst baiting,
because you have had one in your possession since April.

My Response:

I think Terry may have still a copper pattern etched on a thin piece of
G-10 type fiberglass board.  But, why would I know if this is the specific
antenna you are refering to or if it was etched on the same substrate (you
only stated that it was at  UHF).   However, I confess I did ask the
question because the use of fiberglass in etched tuned circuits is a
questionable practive at 900 MHz.  I believe there are better materials
available, and I guess I was hoping to hear that you were using one of
them.

By the same token,  just because I might have typed the word "resonance
ratio" last year when preparing a chart for you doesn't mean I read your
definition of what it meant.  Your work is spread over a year and half in
several issues--and it occupies a lot of editorial "bandwidth".  You might
be expecting a lot when you ask me (or any other reader) to remember the
definition of non-standard terminology from issue to issue.  Also, I
recall posting that I specifically didn't want to build a MI2--I simply
wanted to know the box size (Tom is the one who requested the pattern).

Finally, I certainly don't want to persue a thread where every technical
question I pose is met with the type of resistance, suspicion, and
personal assault displayed in your last post.  If your work has flaws,
those flaws will eventually be uncovered by someone (a lot of my work
contains flaws, outright mistakes, or unclear explainations--and I rely on
others within this community to point them out to me--hopefully before I
propogate them upon the world at large).  If your work is solid, I'm
wondering what you have to lose by providing a straight answer?  Or, if
I'm distracting you and you want me to go away so you can focus on your
dialog with Tom or someone else, just say so.  I'll do it.

-- Rick



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160m Antenna?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:52:24 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <56q3fm$[e-mail]>
References: <56q00k$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Brian Short) wrote:

>I have a 40 acre ranch in East-Central Arizona, so space is no problem.
>Not living there presently, I have no towers there and there are no high
>trees...

>How do I put up an EFFECTIVE 160m antenna?

I would start with a full size 1/4 wave vertical.  There was an
excellent article by Carl KM1H in CQ 6 or 7 years ago about an
efficient full size vertical for 160.   Since CQ has not had an index
since 1978 I would have to search for the article but if you have CQ
sstart in 1988 and work to 1993.  Probably in Nov or Dec issue.

You can use Rohn 25 or even smaller if nothing is mounted on top.
Stay with radials on the ground to start too.

Dave K4JRB




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:02:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <56q4rm$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mentor23.scd.hp.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
 <[e-mail]> wrote:


>This antenna is covered by pending patent and is not public
>domain.However, that does not prevent private experimentation--ergo
>73
>Chip N1IR

According to our patent attorney, inventions with patent pending
are in the public domain until when and if the patent is issued.
And there are no retroactive royalties either.  If the inventor
had a problem with this, he should not have published until the
patent issued.

Standard disclaimer:  I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.

Rick Karlquist N6RK
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Questions: Shakespeare HF vertical.
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:16:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56q5ki$[e-mail]>
References: <56iiqp$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: halfast.west.sun.com

Paul,

  I have one of these "Fisin' Poles". It is a fiberglass shaft with imbedded w
ire
elements. The elements are such (You can see them if you hold it up to the lig
ht)
that they apper\ar to be "wide" to rf. The antenna if pruned about 4-6 inches
resonates on 10.1 mhz nicely. I use it as a full size vertical on 30 meters wi
th 4 radials, roof
mounted. You can by various mounting hardware to fit the odd thread in the bas
e at
any Marine Electronics shop. I was surprised to see so many options. However,
a
regular thread will not fit.


                                              Tony WA6LZH




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 18:15:29 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <56q941$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>In other words, I have severe doubts on the motivation of your present
>questions, gentlemen, unless you can convince me otherwise. Have fun on
>the thread. I won't be today's catch, nor waste time in a flame war.

Is this an offer?

In other words, have we seen most of your Scientology-style bashing?


73, Moritz DL5UH


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] ("Anthony R. Gold")
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: Philistran
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:17:17 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Mail2News-User: [e-mail]
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31702 uk.radio.amateur:22915

Can anyone educate me of Philistran or equivalents?  I am looking for
some non-conductive line to use for boom support.  It should be
sunlight tollerant and have very little elasticity or long term
creep.  I need some for quite light duty applications, say 200 lbs
test would be fine for me.

What is the available lightest gauge of this stuff, and who will sell
it to me in pretty small quantities (say 100 to 200 ft) at economical
prices?

Are there any warnings I should know on how to use this stuff
properly?  Can it be treated just like wire rope with metal clamps
and turnbuckles, or will this handling damage its rated performance?

--
   Tony - G3SKR / W2TG                   email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:38 1996
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From: Stephen John Farthing <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:03:32 +0000
Organization: Ministry of Administrative Affairs
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevef.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stevef.demon.co.uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.00 <0tbEg$MHZK+M9wdwakxIDRGahN>

>I have read that claim, but I find the advertising claim impossible to
>believe.
>
>Are you aware of any independent users of the CFA?
>
>73 Tom
No but presumably the Egyptian broadcaster is an independent user and
would have checked it out before buying. I wonder if we could verify
this by posting something to one of the shortwave groups? It is illegal
in the UK to make false claims when advertising and the authorities do
prosecute.

I have a copy of a design for a CFA in SPRAT, the G QRP club mag. It's
not by GM3HAT and it is claimed to work. I may have a go at making one.
If I do I'll let you if it works.
--
Stephen John Farthing MBCS G0XAR
Melksham, Wiltshire UK
RSGB G-QRP 7766


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:40 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: 18 Nov 1996 19:05:21 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <56qc1h$[e-mail]>
References: <56q2de$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr16s6.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0

In <56q2de$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Terry Hubbard) wri
tes:
>Thankyou for reading this. I am trying to shunt feed my 60 ft free
>standing universal tower. I have a mosley pro-57b at 60 ft with 8 feet of
>mast above that with a 2 meter vertical at the top of the mast. All my
>attempts to feed the tower on 80 meters have resulted in a match of no
>better than 4 to 1 swr. The tower is grounded and connected to a buried
>radial system. The match is currently at 28 feet with a 2 foot spacing
>made of half inch electrical conduit. For capacitance I used 4 feet of
>rg-8u at 25pf per foot to get the tower to dip at about 3.700. However I
>should be able to get a better match. I have tried the tap down to about
>20 feet and 1 foot spacing with no success. Is there a way to calculate
>where the tap and spacing shound be. This shooting in the dark is a pain.
>I dont see what I am doing wrong.
>
>
>
>--
>-----
>Terry Hubbard                  Internet:[e-mail]
>Cudahy, WI                     Compuserve: 75347,2614
>

Gerald Williams of Texas Towers suggests you can "rubber" a tower's length
by bridging a "short" section of it with a large variable capacitor to
introduce changes in the tower's RF profile.  Used, primarily to detune one
and get it out of the way for coupling effects, I bet you could do the same
thing to change your setup, but I've never used this one, yet.  Gerald, K5GW,
says that the process results in a fix that is pretty narrow in bandwidth.

Frank Donovan, W3LPL, suggests altering the "length" of the tower by tying
horizontal wire to a place on the tower to force it to an effective length,
the changes. of course, depend on how long the tunning wire stub may be.
This method of detuning a tower to get it out of influencing other nearby
vertical arrays, is per his comment, far broader in bandwidth than the
method suggested by Gerald.  I'm in the process, time permitting, of doing
a run with MN(C) in an attempt to site a 200 footer in somewhat close
proximity to my 80 meter phased array to minimize the damage to its
pattern.

In Frank's suggestion, tuning the tower to a half wave multiple, gets it
out of the way..  In that your tower is free standing, and this would be
just like the guy wire game, I'll bet that aesthetics will make you scowl
over trying it, but it's only a suggestion....

I bet you can "adjust" your setup in the same way by roaring off into the
countryside with a stub longer than the beam elements!  I bet that all kinds
of tower attitude adjustments can be made to a shunt fed tower to solve
these kinds of problems, using one of these tricks.  However, I, like you,
discovered how convoluted this "matching" process was on the one I tried.
I gave up because I didn't have time to finish the job.

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LOOP ARRAY
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 19:07:43 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <56qc67$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx19-01.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] wrote:
>Hi There--
>
>I would be interested to know if anyone has had some experience with
>(transmitting) loop arrays. Specifically, the 'isoloop' type small loops
>which are tuned to resonance. I suspect phasing must be a bit of a
>challenge and was wondering if anyone had tried. Of course, they'd
>probably only be practically phased for one frequency. Any 'elp?
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

Sorry for the slow response -- this post took five days to reach me.

One thing to consider is that the mutual coupling between loops, at least
on the lower frequency bands, will be small. This means that you can
probably do the phasing simply with transmission lines, and expect the
delay to equal the electrical lengths of the lines. (In the absence of
significant mutual coupling, the feedpoint impedances will stay close to 50
ohms when in an array.) This should be true unless you place the loops much
closer together than in a typical phased array.

Among the things I don't know is how much a small tuning adjustment will
affect the phase of the current in an element. If the effect is large, this
might limit the practicality of the system.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:41 1996
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From: Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:07:36 -0800
Organization: Sierra-Net
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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R. A. Green wrote:
>
> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
> wrote:
>
> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
> >adam turner
> >[e-mail]
> >
> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>
> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?

Tube type hand held?


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:42 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:42:04 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56q2de$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

Terry Hubbard wrote:
> Is there a way to calculate where the tap and spacing shound be. This
> shooting in the dark is a pain. I dont see what I am doing wrong.

Hi Terry, How did you arrive at your required coax capacitance
value? I would replace it with a large variable capacitor until
you know exactly what value of capacitance is needed. You can
vary the capacitance and feedpoint location and zero in on the
desired resistance while running low power. An impedance bridge
would make things a lot easier. Antennas hardly ever follow models,
info in articles, and rules of thumb exactly.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!feed1.news.innet.be|INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!rain.fr!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!sn.no!nntp.uio.no!news.kth.se!tybalt.admin.kth.se!celsiustech.se!usenet
From: Stig Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: JPS ANC-4 noise canceller any good??
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:00:05 -0800
Organization: CelsiusTech Electronics
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0311.celsiustech.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: "John T. Young" <[e-mail]>

John T. Young wrote:
>
> Anyone have any experiences with the JPS ANC-4 noise canceller? I'm trying
> to get rid of a constant S7 noise level on 75 meters (probably line noise)
> and maybe this device will work. Also, I'm wondering how much insertion
> loss to expect. Since I'm interested in dx window work, will the losses
> offset the gains? Thanks for your input. de John, K7JY, Seattle.

Hi,

I tryed one with mixed resaults, have problems with thyristor noise.
Will test again with ANC-4 antenna close to nornal antenna, had indoor
ANC antenna first time.

Insertion losses was not noticable..

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:44 1996
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From: John Morris <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: Re: Philistran
Date: 18 Nov 1996 21:47:20 GMT
Organization: Shiva Europe Limited, Edinburgh, UK.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <56qlh8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] ("Anthony R. Gold") wrote:
>Can anyone educate me of Philistran or equivalents?

Isn't that the stuff that "fortifies the over forties"? :-)

73, John, GM4ANB




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:45 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Dick Boley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Sommer Verticle - Are Claims Valid ??
Date: 18 Nov 96 21:52:33 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


Sommer antennas makes the following claim, with a somewhat lower efficiency
claim for 80 & 160.
This is for their 25ft verticle antenna.  URL is
http://www.sommerantennas.com/25work.html

====================
40 m and above
       The antenna is fed by a 50-ohm coaxial cable (feeder line) of any
length. A coaxial broadband transformer (T1) produces a 1:4  50:200-ohm
match at A, providing a power radiation efficiency of 85-98% at 7 MHZ and
above (40 through 10 m bands).
===============================
"A" refers to a coil at the base of the antenna.

Is this believeable and if so does this constitute a verticle worth
considering ???

Regards - Dick  N3HKN   Pittsburgh, PA.



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:46 1996
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From: Mike Valentine <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:55:20 -0500
Organization: Valentine Research, Inc.
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> >I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
> >Is better like a simple dipolo?
> >Can you tell me?
>
> A simple dipole at the same height is about 10-12 dB better on 14 MHz if
> you have the room .
>
> 73 Tom

Oh, I don't think it's quite that bad, Tom.  I had an AEA Iso-loop
mounted at 110', horizontally polarized, on the side of my VHF/UHF tower
for quite some time.  I took it down and replaced it with a CushCraft D4
multiband trap dipole so I could run an amplifier to it.

After the swap, I saw little to no difference between my memories of the
loop to the performance of the dipole on any band 20/15/10.  I have a 75
meter 1-wave horizontal loop that I A/B with either set-up and saw no
difference that I could characterize as 10-12 dB!

The 150 watt rating of the Iso-loop doesn't seem to be power-loss
related.  10-12 dB of efficiency loss should absorb 90-95% of the
transmitter's power in the antenna parts.  Wouldn't that make it
hot to the touch?  I never found it hot to the touch after
testing.

Judging from the arcing sound from 200 watts on 20 meters that comes out
of it when tested near the ground, I'd say it was voltage limited.

I had many stations comment that it just couldn't be an Iso-loop and
then say that maybe I was the only person that would admit to using one.
Of course, the height was the thing that did it on band-barely-open DX.
Still, it was kinda cool to open 15 meters to JA with 150 watts and an
Iso-loop.

How do you come by the 10-12 dB numbers?  My experience suggests less
than a few dB if any dB inferiority.  And that would be from pattern,
not loss.

Respectfully,

Mike Valentine - W8MM (ex-WA8MSF)


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Terry Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:22:59 -0600
Organization: Exec-PC
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <56qnk3$[e-mail]>
References: <56q2de$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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This amount of capacitance was arrived at by trial and error. Initially
the swr was 20 to 1 and the lowest dip I could get was with 100pf which
resulted in a swr of 4 to 1. Some other factor is affecting this though
and preventing me getting a better match.

--
-----
Terry Hubbard                  Internet:[e-mail]
Cudahy, WI                     Compuserve: 75347,2614



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 18 Nov 1996 22:40:40 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 17
Sender: [e-mail]
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Rich Karlquist said:

"According to our patent attorney, inventions with patent pending
are in the public domain until when and if the patent is issued.
And there are no retroactive royalties either.  If the inventor
had a problem with this, he should not have published until the
patent issued."

Response:

Good point, Rich.  I always thought patent law provided a 1-year grace
period to file after the date of publication.  However, that does not
block foreign exploitation--or probably anyone else who really wants your
stuff bad enough to steal it.  I would guess it's always best to get in
early, come on strong, and deliver cheap.

Rick


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna (mobile) question
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:05:55 -0500
Organization: Anderson Desktop Publishing
Lines: 27
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
> Honest Joe wrote:
> >
> > I have two antenna mounted on my spare tire carrier about 12" apart.
> > One is Vhf xmitting from 5-50 watts. The other is CB that is xmitting
> > from12-20 watts. The cb is hardly ever on and neither are ever xmitted
> > at same time.
>
> Joe,
> You do know that anything over 5 watts on CB is illegal...
> Later,
> Dave
>
>
> --
> =================================================================
> David Cooley           A.K.A. N5XMT            [e-mail]
> http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
> =================================================================
>
Dave ...

    Except SSB, where the power is 15 W PEP.
--
Barry Anderson K3SUI
Frederick, MD. 21702
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:52 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Verticals
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:13:19 -0500
Organization: Anderson Desktop Publishing
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
> Hi and tnx for taking the time to read this request.
>
> I have heard some very good things about the GAP vertical
> antennas.  I am also contemplating buying one, say the TITAN
> but would like to get a littel feedback from some of you
> hams that have personal experience with them.  SO how do
> they work?  How do they compare to say a 2 el yagi?  I know
> its not a fair question, well I have a 6 element tribander
> which I would like to put back up, but am going to wait at
> least until spring time to do that.  I live in COLD Vermont
> and since I just moved to this town, most of my antennas are
> down.  I need something that works quite well for the winter
> and possibly beyond.  If this GAP works as well as claimed
> I may never bother to put the tower and beam up!
>
> Anyway, any comments would be appreciated.
>
> Les (W1UT)
>
Les ...

    Although I have not much information for you on the GAP antenna, I
know that it is basically a vertically polarized dipole antenna. One or
both sides of the element are loaded to keep the size down. Because of
this design there is less compromise with the antenna efficency when over
poor ground. This antenna will not give gain, however, which will not
allow it to perform up to your 6 element tribander.
--
Barry Anderson K3SUI
Frederick, MD. 21702
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:53 1996
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From: [e-mail](Dale Harper)
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: 18 Nov 1996 23:38:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <56qs13$[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Nov 18  3:38:11 PM PST 1996
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:118369 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31717 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:566 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20148 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42562 rec.radio.amateur.space:8838

In <[e-mail]> Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>R. A. Green wrote:
>>
>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>> >adam turner
>> >[e-mail]
>> >
>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>>
>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
>
>Tube type hand held?

Quaker Oats box and crystal.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:54 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bruce Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: k1fo ants
Date: 19 Nov 1996 00:34:43 GMT
Organization: Aardvark Internet [phone]
Lines: 12
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

hello from vk land
can anybody help me out with some info abt k1fo antenna's
i do not have access to the arrl handbooks.
i beleive in the latest arrl handbook there is
some info on them.
also have you made any and how do they perform ?
73 de vk3dht

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  AARDVARK Public Access Internet  -  Melbourne, Australia  -  [phone]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:56 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:21:58 -0800
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
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Terry Hubbard wrote:
>
> Thankyou for reading this. I am trying to shunt feed my 60 ft free
> standing universal tower. I have a mosley pro-57b at 60 ft with 8 feet of
> mast above that with a 2 meter vertical at the top of the mast. All my
> attempts to feed the tower on 80 meters have resulted in a match of no
> better than 4 to 1 swr. The tower is grounded and connected to a buried
> radial system. The match is currently at 28 feet with a 2 foot spacing
> made of half inch electrical conduit. For capacitance I used 4 feet of
> rg-8u at 25pf per foot to get the tower to dip at about 3.700. However I
> should be able to get a better match. I have tried the tap down to about
> 20 feet and 1 foot spacing with no success. Is there a way to calculate
> where the tap and spacing shound be. This shooting in the dark is a pain.
> I dont see what I am doing wrong.
>
> --
> -----
> Terry Hubbard                  Internet:[e-mail]
> Cudahy, WI                     Compuserve: 75347,2614

Terry,

If the coaxial capacitor is being used as the gamma matching capacitor,
it probably is too little. I would expect something up to 400pF. W6RCA's
suggestion to use a variable capacitor is good advice.

Two excellent articles that I have found useful are:

Gamma Match Design, HR Mag. May 1972
Shunt Fed Verticals, HR Mag, May 1975

73's
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:57 1996
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From: David Robbins <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNA REFERENCES
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:42:21 +0000
Organization: k1ttt
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OK, would someone please explain why something would be called a
'chaotic fractal' at all???

as i understand it a fractal is a deterministic curve usually made
up from a repetitive pattern that repeats forever on larger and
larger (or smaller and smaller depending on your point of view)
scales.

a chaotic system is one that never repeats the same pattern.  even
for an infinitesimally small difference in starting states the
trajectory of the system diverges.  i don't know how you would
apply chaos or chaotic systems to antenna design.

it would appear the very name is a contradiction in terms.

--
David Robbins K1TTT (ex KY1H)
[e-mail]   or   [e-mail]
http://www.berkshire.net/~robbins/k1ttt.html



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:58 1996
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From: @hagagymnasiet.norrkoping.se
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Alpha Delta DXA Twin SLoper
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:46:39 -0800
Organization: Foreningen Lejonet, Linkoping, Sweden
Lines: 12
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To: Ian McCloy <[e-mail]>

Ian McCloy wrote:
>
> I have installed the alpha delta dxa twin sloper and I have had nothing but
problems with tuning in on 80/40.  I have agreat swr on 160 but have
done everything by the book to get it to tune on 80/40.

Top-fed slopers can be impossible to match, depending on the height of
the tower and the antennas on top of it. Mine worked well on 160, 80 and
40 meters with just a VHF-beam as top loading, but when the HF-yagi came
up it was impossible to get SWR lower than 5 on 160 m. After much
experimenting I have given up and now feed a guy wire at the bottom
instead. On 80 m the sloper still works fine.
73 de Len SM5DFF


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:39:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 19 Nov 1996 02:07:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 45
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References: <56q4rm$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
 <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Rich Karlquist said:
>
>"According to our patent attorney, inventions with patent pending
>are in the public domain until when and if the patent is issued.
>And there are no retroactive royalties either.  If the inventor
>had a problem with this, he should not have published until the
>patent issued."
>
>Response:
>
>Good point, Rich.  I always thought patent law provided a 1-year grace
>period to file after the date of publication.  However, that does not
>block foreign exploitation--or probably anyone else who really wants your
>stuff bad enough to steal it.  I would guess it's always best to get in
>early, come on strong, and deliver cheap.
>
>Rick

US patent law does provide a 1 year grace period after
publication to file.  Other countries do not.

I would disagree with your use of the word "steal".  The
person claiming to be the inventor does not "own" anything
to steal until and if a patent issues.  If you think about
it, this makes sense.  First of all, patent applications
are secret, at least for 18 months.  Hence, there is no way
for anyone to know if they are building something for which
a patent has been applied for.  Secondly, there is no guarantee
that a patent will issue, or if it does, what claims will be
allowed.  If you allowed pending patents to have "coverage",
you'd have every Tom Dick and Harry applying for all kinds of
patents that had no chance of issuing and then dragging out
the process as long as possible.  Then when the patent is
refused, reapplying.

Again, if you have a problem with this, then don't tell any
one about your invention until they sign a non-disclosure
agreement.

This is my understanding from talking to our patent attorney.

Rick Karlquist N6RK
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:00 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Which 5-band antenna?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 02:18:59 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 6
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

My father-in-law just lost his Telrex tri-bander to an ice storm here in
Minnesota last weekend.  He's looking for a 5 band antenna to replace it.
Any recommendations?  I don't think he's interested in a quad.

Thanks for your input.
Mark,  N0YRW


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dave Sjolin)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Eggbeaters for Ham LEOs ?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 02:58:56 GMT
Organization: The Research Staff
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad38-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2

>> Is it reasonable to use two M-sq eggbeaters (2mtr & 70cm) for Oscar
LEO satellites.
Moving to a condo and can mount on the deck. I would assume that the
radial package is a must?????? <<

I would think the eggbeaters would work very well for LEO satellites. I
use an eggbeater on 2 mtrs with RS-10 and RS-15 and have good uplink
signal.

I believe the radial package adds gain overhead but the antenna still
works well for other weak signal work on 2 meters. During August I
worked several meteor scatter schedules over 800 miles distant using
eggbeater and 170 watts ssb. You definitely want the radial package. It
greatly simplifies the installation. Mounting without the radial package
can be tricky.

Good luck, 73 de Dave, N0IT



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:02 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 19 Nov 1996 03:50:37 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 21
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Mike Valentine
<[e-mail]> writes:

>After the swap, I saw little to no difference between my memories of the
>loop to the performance of the dipole on any band 20/15/10.  I have a 75
>meter 1-wave horizontal loop that I A/B with either set-up and saw no
>difference that I could characterize as 10-12 dB!
>
>The 150 watt rating of the Iso-loop doesn't seem to be power-loss
>related.  10-12 dB of efficiency loss should absorb 90-95% of the
>transmitter's power in the antenna parts.  Wouldn't that make it
>hot to the touch?  I never found it hot to the touch after
>testing.

I did an actual FSM as part of an evaluation, and no you won't feel the
heat. It is spead over the entire surface of the loop conductor. That's a
lot of surface exposed to air.

Don't swallow the stuff these loops are as good as dipoles, they aren't.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Sommer Verticle - Are Claims Valid ??
Date: 19 Nov 1996 03:50:38 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.10)
Lines: 13
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Dick Boley) writes:

>====================
>40 m and above
>       The antenna is fed by a 50-ohm coaxial cable (feeder line) of any
>length. A coaxial broadband transformer (T1) produces a 1:4  50:200-ohm
>match at A, providing a power radiation efficiency of 85-98% at 7 MHZ and
>above (40 through 10 m bands).

If you count heat energy as the power radiated, the claim is true.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Helis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:53:59 GMT
Organization: InterSurf Online, Inc.
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Message-ID: <56rbcv$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]>
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"Jorge E. Forero M." <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
>Is better like a simple dipolo?
>Can you tell me?
>Thanks in advance...
>Jorge
>YV6EDA
>[e-mail]

I've used an ISOLOOP and made some good contacts with it.  I've worked
all over the U.S. with it, and into the Carribean.  Haven't worked any
serious DX with it yet at this QTH yet.  I'm an an apartment on the
second floor and sit it on the balcony.


73,

Jonathan Helis, KB5IAV
Baton Rouge, Lousiana, USA

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:04 1996
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From: Peter McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Alpha Delta DXB for 160 & 80 Meters
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:41:11 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-30.ts-4.nyc.idt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit)

Okay, here's yet another antenna question...
I am currently using an "attic mounted" 1/2 size G5RV, which works just
fine on 40-10M's.  I want to get out on 80 and 160, and am, as usual,
"spatially impaired" (and the fact that the neighbors are in the dark
doesn't hurt either).  So, here's my question:

Does anyone have any experience with the Alpha Delta DXB antenna?  How
about anything similar?  What type of altitude is suggested for mounting
the DXB? And most importantly, what type of grounding? (ie. will water
pipes/heating ducts pull it off?)

Thanx for the time.... Pete -KA2YDY-


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:05 1996
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From: Peter McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:41:54 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-30.ts-4.nyc.idt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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SUBSCRIBE


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:06 1996
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From: "j.f." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ham page
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:49:41 -0800
Organization: CyberRamp.net, Dallas, TX [phone]/[phone] for info
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal-tsa6-p1-1.cyberramp.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

http://www.cyberramp.net/~johnf


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (paulyim)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help: Dual band Antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:23:12 GMT
Organization: The Connection
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cnct.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

I am new at this hobby and trying to set 2M mobile rig in my
apartment. I have been told to put up a mobile antenna for their small
appearance. I plan to use this dual band antenna for both 2M mobile
and dual band HT. Now here is a question: Do I need an antenna tuner
for this mobile antenna? BTW, 2M mobile is for a packet.
Thanks for your help.

Paul Yim,
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!news.pacbell.net!default
From: [e-mail] (Steve Childress)
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 06:03:17 GMT
Organization: Self
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <56rii9$[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-206-170-120-198.sndg02.pacbell.net
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In article <[e-mail]>, Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> wrote:
>R. A. Green wrote:
>>
>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>> >adam turner
>> >[e-mail]
>> >
>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>>
>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
>
>Tube type hand held?

Maybe he meant a radio for pigs to listen to heavy metal with.


------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]          If Computers Are The Answer...
  WB6CSZ                         What Was The Question?



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!jjo
From: [e-mail] (Jari Jokiniemi)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Trap losses
Date: 19 Nov 1996 06:25:29 GMT
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ds10.tekla.fi


How much are typical trap losses in a typical three band yagi? Are we
talking about one dB or less or more?
--
Jari Jokiniemi, [e-mail], OH2MPO, OH3BU
Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, [phone]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:10 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet2.afn.org!afn17891
From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: [Q] Balun's & more baluns'
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:58:03 -0500
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.afn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
NNTP-Posting-User: afn17891

Hi Tom here:

Got a box [big box] full of baluns' & uns/uns'.....

Most of them are either home made or no markings left from the
manufacturer due to age an Wx....

Most are really well made, an not made to be taken apart...

Whats the most effective way of determining the ratio 1:1 4:1 & ect.
I can just see me with umpteen different value dummy loads [50, 100,
150 & ect] trying to see what it will match.... Not too mention the
uns / uns that can be real fun too...?

Any suggestions????

De Tom

73'




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: altavoz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WAVEGUIDE FYI
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:21:24 -0800
Organization: worldnet.att.net
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.206.243
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)

Jake Brodsky wrote:
>
> altavoz wrote:
> >
> >
> > "....but has to read carefully.."  Your so kind ! The ARRL hb sucks !
> >
> > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
>
> Everything in any worthwhile technical description should be read
> carefully.  If on that basis the ARRL Handbook "sucks", then so
> should every other technical book.  Your statement makes no sense
> to me.
>
> 73,
>
> Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]

If you cant differenciate between well written tutorials
and bad , we're very sorry , maybe some additional schooling
would help .
  If you'd like to see a well written tut' CQ magazine has a
$10 antenna book by capt Paul h. Lee .



______End of text  from altavoz___________


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ptd.net!ns1.ptd.net!n3tvv
From: n3tvv <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna (mobile) question
Date: 19 Nov 1996 08:47:11 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ns1.ptd.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
To: Barry Anderson <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Barry Anderson wrote:

> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:05:55 -0500
> From: Barry Anderson <[e-mail]>
> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
> Subject: Re: Antenna (mobile) question
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
> > Honest Joe wrote:
> > >
> > > I have two antenna mounted on my spare tire carrier about 12" apart.
> > > One is Vhf xmitting from 5-50 watts. The other is CB that is xmitting
> > > from12-20 watts. The cb is hardly ever on and neither are ever xmitted
> > > at same time.
> >
> > Joe,
> > You do know that anything over 5 watts on CB is illegal...
> > Later,
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > --
> > =================================================================
> > David Cooley           A.K.A. N5XMT            [e-mail]
> > http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
> > =================================================================
> >
> Dave ...
>
>     Except SSB, where the power is 15 W PEP.
> --
> Barry Anderson K3SUI
> Frederick, MD. 21702
> [e-mail]
>
>

   So he`s over by 5 watts not like the F.C.C cares!!

ERIC ,N3TVV([e-mail])




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 19 Nov 1996 09:03:53 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <56rt5p$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]> <56rbcv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>I've used an ISOLOOP and made some good contacts with it.  I've worked
>all over the U.S. with it, and into the Carribean.  Haven't worked any
>serious DX with it yet at this QTH yet.  I'm an an apartment on the
>second floor and sit it on the balcony.

Hi Jonathan,

Don't get me wrong, but your comment is out of place here. Everyone
knows that you can make good contacts with a poor antenna, and
your success only proves your good operating procedures.

Exaggerated advertizing claims backed by "sucess" stories
are really obnoxious. May be spaghetti manufacturers should boost
their sales by founding a wet noodle award.

73, Moritz DL5UH


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!news.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de!gelleric
From: [e-mail] (Wolfgang Gellerich)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 19 Nov 1996 10:33:06 GMT
Organization: Informatik, Uni Stuttgart, Germany
Lines: 40
Sender: gelleric@kafka (Wolfgang Gellerich)
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56s2d2$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kafka.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de

In article <[e-mail]>, Mike Valentine <WA8MSF@worldnet.a
tt.net> writes:
|> [e-mail] wrote:
|> >
|> > >I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
|> > >Is better like a simple dipolo?
|> > >Can you tell me?
|> >
|> > A simple dipole at the same height is about 10-12 dB better on 14 MHz if
|> > you have the room .
|> >
|> > 73 Tom
|>
|> Oh, I don't think it's quite that bad, Tom.  I had an AEA Iso-loop
|> mounted at 110', horizontally polarized, on the side of my VHF/UHF tower
|> for quite some time.  I took it down and replaced it with a CushCraft D4
|> multiband trap dipole so I could run an amplifier to it.
|>
|> After the swap, I saw little to no difference between my memories of the
|> loop to the performance of the dipole on any band 20/15/10.  I have a 75
|> meter 1-wave horizontal loop that I A/B with either set-up and saw no
|> difference that I could characterize as 10-12 dB!
|>
|> The 150 watt rating of the Iso-loop doesn't seem to be power-loss
|> related.  10-12 dB of efficiency loss should absorb 90-95% of the
|> transmitter's power in the antenna parts.  Wouldn't that make it
|> hot to the touch?  I never found it hot to the touch after
|> testing.
|>
|> Judging from the arcing sound from 200 watts on 20 meters that comes out
|> of it when tested near the ground, I'd say it was voltage limited.
|>

That's true. The physics of small loop antenna says that there is high voltage
at the antenna's capacitor, and unless a vacuum capacitor is used, this
limits the max pwr to few 100 Watts. The formulas are given in the ARRL
ANtenna Book.

73,

  Wolfgang DJ3TZ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: I want to build a 20meter loop.  Help.
Date: 19 Nov 1996 12:56:29 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

I am a beginner, or at least with loop antennae, and I want to build a
beverage or a delta loop for my rooftop area here in Yotsukaido, Japan.
Can somebody help me with a basic plan or some advice on a book that'd
steer me along?
Jonathan kc7fys\7j1awl


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ns.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] ("sup! ya'll")
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Pro-46 mod needed
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:19 GMT
Organization: NextGen Systems Internet Services
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <56sd08$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: smandrt.ns.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

would somebody help me out. I found one mod for it but its very
unclear then looses me completely.  Supposeably its in the May 1993
issue of Monitoring Times but I can't seem to get my hands on an
issue.  Lets trade what we have so far.
   I will help you out with anything else you need. (I have something
that you want I'm sure - software etc.)
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:18 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ns.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] ("sup! ya'll")
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Pro-46 mod needed
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:42 GMT
Organization: NextGen Systems Internet Services
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <56sd0v$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: smandrt.ns.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

would somebody help me out. I found one mod for it but its very
unclear then looses me completely.  Supposeably its in the May 1993
issue of Monitoring Times but I can't seem to get my hands on an
issue.  Lets trade what we have so far.
   I will help you out with anything else you need. (I have something
that you want I'm sure - software etc.)
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:19 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.rmii.com!rainbow.rmi.net!rainbow!jonz
From: [e-mail] (Bea and Marvin Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna spacing?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:00:03 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet - (800) 900-RMII
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <56seh3$[e-mail]>
References: <56qofv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rainbow.rmii.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Ted Sarah ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Is there any rule of thumb for the spacing between antennas?

Yup.  And, the best part is: There are hundreds.

--
Jonesy  W3DHJ

"Standards are nice.  And so many to chose from."


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:20 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!fpmbh.com!iag.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:15:48 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56r4ol$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com

Good advice, Rich.  And, I agree--viewing that as "theft" is probably a
type of institutional whining some inventors fall into.  Another school of
thought is to get your creation out into the relevent community, publicise
it, and try to market it with a vengence.  It could be more profitable to
sell a small company than to protect a big idea!





From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news
From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNA REFERENCES
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:01:35 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-102.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

David Robbins wrote:
>
> OK, would someone please explain why something would be called a
> 'chaotic fractal' at all???
>
> it would appear the very name is a contradiction in terms.
>


An oxymoron?

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!aanews.merit.net!ns1.autonet.net!C1094-073
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people,rec.ponds,rec.puzzles,rec.puzzles.crosswords,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: Save 80% On Your Grocery Bills!!!
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 15:03:47 GMT
Organization: ADP Autonet Internet Services
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <56tvo3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: c1094-073.dialup.pwrnet.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
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THIS is Your Problem!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The average American family spends approximately $400 per month on
food and other grocery store items. That monthly expense is increasing
constantly, and EVERYONE is always looking for ways to cut those costs.

Now the way that most consumers are saving money at the grocery store is
by using " cash off " coupons. In fact recent national surveys report that
90% of  ALL American households use grocery coupons weekly!

But .... until now the problem has been that " coupons clipping " is a
hit-or-miss proposition at best. It generally means a time consuming,
tedious job of sorting through perhaps dozens of flyers, circulars, and
magazines, and cutting out only those few coupons that fit your needs.

National statistics actually tells us that although the typical Sunday paper
contains 100 or  more "cash off " coupons , the average person manages to
clip only 3 to 6 coupons for products they really want and use.

And  THIS  is Our Solution !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Mike Valentine <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:12:34 -0500
Organization: Valentine Research, Inc.
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.60.83
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; I)

[e-mail] wrote:
>

>
> I did an actual FSM as part of an evaluation, and no you won't feel the
> heat. It is spead over the entire surface of the loop conductor. That's a
> lot of surface exposed to air.
>
> Don't swallow the stuff these loops are as good as dipoles, they aren't.
>
> 73 Tom

There are 2 versions of Iso-Loops.  The first one had clamped joints
between pieces of tubing.  I didn't like it at all.

The second version is a flat metal strip welded to the extruded,
one-piece butterfly-capacitor stators.  This is the one I had on my
tower.  They are also sensitive to tuning, of course.  They don't
radiate nearly as well when detuned a little.  If you saw 10-12 dB in
your FSM, I'd be willing to bet that the loop was off-tune from
resonance, or it was the older, clamped-tubing version.  The thing is a
high-Q filter and if one operates it 6 dB down on the skirt, well, your
milage may vary.

Nobody said that a small loop was as good as a low-loss dipole for gain.
The small loop will have less directivity gain as well as some Q-related
heating losses.  But 10->12 dB?  I don't think so.  Maybe you mean
10-12 centiBels.  All I did was use one for a year or more and compared
it to other antennas in an A/B situation.  10-12 dB is on the order of 3
Japanese S-units.  I think I could have seen that, and if the loop was
mistuned, I did at times.

As for "swallowing" my own observations, how do you propose that I avoid
empiricism?  I have made more microwave antenna gain measurements than I
can remember.  Can I be fooled to the tune of a few dB?  It has
happened.  10-12 dB?  I can't ever recall a time that I was that far
off.  What was your test setup and which loop did you test?

Mike - W8MM


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:24 1996
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From: Jonathan Bowes <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 300 ohm feeder fro vhf/uhf work ??
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:19:00 +0100
Organization: Czech Ecological Institute
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.12.63
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Dear all,

Got a problem whether or not to go to the extent and trouble of putting
a professional grade civ/mil vhf/uhf airband antenna on the top of my
block of flats. I have a ground floor flat which makes a run of a about
30 m to the top. The gain of the antenna is 3.5dB at vhf and 6.5dB at
uhf against a dipole. I am a little worried about how the cable loss
will offset any gain by installation on the roof. DILEMMA !! Opinion on
that would be appreciated.

SECONDLY - I had an idea from reading this NG that i could try using 300
ohm feeder ribbon which has a much lower loss than RG58 overlonger runs.
I have here already the appropriate matching baluns which were salvaged
from TV connectors here. Would this work at all in reducing the losses
from the cable run ???? I think it would work but is it feasible ????
If anyone has done this or any experience please contact me here or
preferably via e-mail.  Thanks a big bunch.

Jonathan Bowes


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:25 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (John Stroppel)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: 19 Nov 1996 15:36:38 GMT
Organization: The University of Iowa
Lines: 10
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <56sk66$[e-mail]>
References: <56q2de$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: franklin.uhl.uiowa.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0]

I read in the ARRL book that the cap should be about 7 pf for each
meter. ( 80x7)

John WA0VYZ

--
 John Stroppel                         | Internet: [e-mail]
 The University of Iowa - Hygienic Lab | Amateur Radio: WA0VYZ
 Oakdale Research Campus, OH-M7A       | Voice:    [phone]
 Iowa City, IA   52242                 | Fax:      [phone]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!ipac.net!pagesat.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.consultix.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!usenet
From: F. Kevin Feeney <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Slingshot Lines Over Trees ... Another Suggestion
Date: 19 Nov 1996 15:58:14 GMT
Organization: Cornell University/NR
Lines: 53
Sender: [e-mail] (Verified)
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56slem$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ascension.cit.cornell.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
X-XXDate: Tue, 19 Nov 96 17:04:46 GMT

In article <56s4ov$[e-mail]> Chuck Forsberg,
[e-mail] writes:
>
>One limitation of this technique is the need for a clear area in
>which to unroll the twine prior to shooting.
>

A sailor friend taught me a good solution for that. I use the same 170
pound test twine and I unroll it into a bucket. I take the end of the
line and tie it to the bucket handle. Then I unspool the twine into the
bucket. When you get more than enough in the bucket to go to the top of
the tree and back to the ground and then some, cut it and attach to the
arrow (I duct tape some carriage bolts to mine for weight).

You'd think the line in the bucket would get all tangled, but it doesn't,
it spools out fast and free. When you retrieve the arrow, just pull it
towards you and drop the line in the bucket as it comes your way and
shoot again.

Sure, after a day of shooting lines over trees eventually you get a
tangle. Cut it loose, throw it away, and start over with more line. This
has worked very well for me for about 10 years.

BTW, how does the compound bow work when you don't want to fire a full
strength shot? I use a recurve bow of about 45 pounds pull. I can
modulate the strength of the shot very easily by how far back I pull the
arrow. I can do a full power shot for those 85 foot elms, or 'bloop' a
line over a 15 foot sapling. With my compound, I pretty much have to pull
it back to the let off point, which with my 70 lb bow, is more than I
dare shoot upwards.

A cautionary note note for beginners - an arrow, especially a heavy
arrow, can be lethal, even when it has a blunt tip. Only use these
techniques when you can be sure that no one is downrange who could be
hurt.

Also, be very careful that the line can pay out cleanly, no matter what
method you use. One of the reasons I went to the bucket method originally
was because I had several experiences when the arrow was launched from
the bow fine, but the line hung up on weeds or whatever on the ground.
That line can be very strong, and it's somewhat elastic. The upshot was I
launched more than one arrow, only to have it foul the line, halt, and
then return to me at nearly full velocity as the stretched line pulled it
back! Yeow! That was more excitement than I needed. I've only had the
line pay out properly off of very well manicured lawn or the recommended
bucket method.

Of course your milage may vary. But I can heartily recommend the bucket
as a way of organizing the line and letting it pay out cleanly.

73 de Kevin, WB2EMS
"When I was a child, Mommy told me not to talk to strangers. Now that I'm
a ham, it's my hobby!"


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.america.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Conrad Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Coax Trap Dipole Wire Lengths Needed.
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:28:32 GMT
Organization: PSS InterNet Services, Interneting Florida and beyond 904 253 7100
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <56sn8h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dab2-13.america.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi,

Am building a coax trap antenna using 4 traps in each leg for use on
10, 15, 20, 40 , & 80.  Does anyone have the approximate wire lengths
for suac an antenna?

Thanks,   Conrad   [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!hookup!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news
From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WAVEGUIDE FYI
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:29:44 -0500
Organization: Utter Chaos
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: spg-as16s35.erols.com
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I)

altavoz wrote:
>
> Jake Brodsky wrote:
> >
> > altavoz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > "....but has to read carefully.."  Your so kind ! The ARRL hb sucks !
> > >
> > > ______End of text  from altavoz___________
> >
> > Everything in any worthwhile technical description should be read
> > carefully.  If on that basis the ARRL Handbook "sucks", then so
> > should every other technical book.  Your statement makes no sense
> > to me.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
>
> If you cant differenciate between well written tutorials
> and bad , we're very sorry , maybe some additional schooling
> would help .
>   If you'd like to see a well written tut' CQ magazine has a
> $10 antenna book by capt Paul h. Lee .
>
>
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________

"Well written tutorials" are a matter of opinion.  Yours could
use some widening.

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:29 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!news-server.ncren.net!news_server.cs.unc.edu!newz.oit.unc.edu!gibbs!brophy
From: [e-mail] (J. Jon Brophy)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.film+labs,rec.photo.marketplace,rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.technique.art,rec.photo.technique.misc,rec.photo.technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people,rec.ponds,rec.puzzles,rec.puzzles.crosswords,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What to do  with these guys?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 17:13:49 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <56spsd$[e-mail]>
References: <56ii7j$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gibbs.oit.unc.edu
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.photo.equipment.large-format:7592 rec.photo.equipment.medium-format:11530 rec.photo.equipment.misc:8355 rec.photo.film+labs:7747 rec.photo.marketplace:62312 rec.photo.misc:57287 rec.photo.technique.art:2459 rec.photo.technique.misc:3889 rec.photo.technique.nature:6114 rec.photo.technique.people:4427 rec.ponds:18495 rec.puzzles:73661 rec.puzzles.crosswords:7376 rec.pyrotechnics:56498 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31760

In article <[e-mail]>,
Christopher R. Chaffee, President <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Post your crap here again, you'll be reported to the Postmaster
>General's Office's Consumer Fraud Division.
>What you're doing is highly illegal.
>You'll get busted anyway.
>When 9,000 pieces of mail get shipped to your address in a 4 week
>period, they'll take the legal peek inside. You're BUSTED!!
>Defending yourself in a federal court will cost more than the $9,000
>you THINK you'll make.(They'll keep it all anyway)
>Kinda changes your math figures a bit, huh??

Hey don't get too upset.  You see they are leaving their name and addresses
on the net for all to see and do with as they like.
Now I would never take their name and use it in an "illegal" manner
as they have themselves, but there are lots of things one can do with
these names......

Cheers,
Jon


>
>The Wanderer wrote:
>>
[essentials deleted]

>>
>>    1- John Chen
>>        1286 W. Adams Bl. Apt#1
>>        Los Angeles  CA USA 90007
>>
>>    2- Eric Chan
>>        1225 H street Apt#22
>>        Davis, CA USA 95616
>>
>>    3- LeMar Davidson
>>       6232 Walton Ave.
>>       Philadelphia, PA USA 19143
>>
>>    4- dsg
>>       439 N. Salisbury
>>       W. Lafayette, IN USA 47906
>>
>>    5- P. Schneider
>>       192 Penistone Road North
>>       SHEFFIELD S61QA
>>       UK
>>




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!reader.seed.net.tw!news
From: [e-mail] (Albert)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for COMMUNICATION TOWER specification !!
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:18:40 GMT
Organization: ZZZ, Inc.
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <56r5ai$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.67.40.46
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

i will let a contract about communication tower installation, but i am
not familiar with this subject. please let me know the details or
where i can find out the information about specifications,
requirements & considerations.
thanks !!
Albert E-Mail:[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!fpmbh.com!iag.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!usenet
From: Joe <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna (mobile) question
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:53:59 -0800
Organization: Hi from Taipei TAIWAN !!!
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: na01872244.taiwan.ti.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)

>
>     Except SSB, where the power is 15 W PEP.
> --
> Barry Anderson K3SUI
> Frederick, MD. 21702
> [e-mail]


That would be 12 watts PEP output.....Part 15 Subpart D

Joe


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail
From: "James Holbrook" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help needed for 2.4 Gig aerial downlink antenna
Date: 19 Nov 1996 12:23:02 -0700
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <01bbd64e$d5c6f680$cc2e44c6@Pazfai>
X-Posted-By: @198.68.46.204 (azfai)
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I have an RPV Helicopter/Camera Platform broadcasting on 2.4 Gig to a
ground station and I need an antenna that is omnidirectional both in the
air and on the groundstation that will increase my range to about 2-3000
feet.

Can anybody help me out? If you have any ideas or advise, please e-mail me
at [e-mail]. I also have a web site dealing with RPV's and radio
controlled Helicopters at http://www.primenet.com/~azfai/ for anyone
interested.

James




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!not-for-mail
From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:24:24 -0800
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bill_harwood.chinalake.navy.mil
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC)

Gary Robison wrote:
>
> Looking for info on UHF slot type antenna. To be used for an ATV
> repeater
> on 439 Mhz.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Comments
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary
> K3SJX
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]


This is generally an Alvord Slot (slot in a metal tube) antenna but is
generally used for omni directional horizontal polarization in
commercail TV work.

Bill Harwood
AB6DY


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Hosler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with shunt fed tower needed
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:32:41 GMT
Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN  55144-1000 US
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <56t20r$[e-mail]>
References: <56q2de$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Terry Hubbard) wrote:

>Thankyou for reading this. I am trying to shunt feed my 60 ft free
>standing universal tower. I have a mosley pro-57b at 60 ft with 8 feet of
>mast above that with a 2 meter vertical at the top of the mast. All my
>attempts to feed the tower on 80 meters have resulted in a match of no
>better than 4 to 1 swr. The tower is grounded and connected to a buried
>radial system. The match is currently at 28 feet with a 2 foot spacing
>made of half inch electrical conduit. For capacitance I used 4 feet of
>rg-8u at 25pf per foot to get the tower to dip at about 3.700. However I
>should be able to get a better match. I have tried the tap down to about
>20 feet and 1 foot spacing with no success. Is there a way to calculate
>where the tap and spacing shound be. This shooting in the dark is a pain.
>I dont see what I am doing wrong.



>--
>-----
>Terry Hubbard                  Internet:[e-mail]
>Cudahy, WI                     Compuserve: 75347,2614

Buy, borrow, or steal an Autek RF-1 Analyst and measure the actual
feedpoint impedance to determine how much inductive reactance you need
to cancel with a series capacitor.  I would expect that you will find
that combination is a loooong way from resonant on 80M and high amount
of inductive reactance.  If you consider that the tower by itself is
almost resonant on 80M, then add about 25 ft for the top load of the
Pro-57B, plus another 8 feet for the mast, and you are up to an
effective length of around 123 feet.  I didn't add anything for the 2M
vertical as is may or may not be electrically grounded to the tower
(DC ground potential).  Anyway you want to look at it, you are very
likely close to a half wavelength on 80.  You could verify this by
running a shunt wire from the very top of the tower to ground.  Place
a couple of turns in the shunt wire and use a grip dip meter to
determine where the whole enchalida is resonant.  If you find that it
is nearly a half wavelength as I suspect, then it is time for plan
"B".  You can shunt feed the tower, but use an elevated feed.  In the
above example I guesstimated the top loading effect of the Pro-57B to
be about 25 feet.  Add in the 8 feet of mast and you have 33 of the
aproximate 66 feet required for a 1/4 wavelength vertical.  At this
point you will need to come back down the tower about 35 feet from the
top (35 vs 33 to insure that the load is inductive).  If you are still
with me, the 25 foot level is where we will feed the shunt wire (with
a series capacitor).  The braid of your coax should be tied to several
1/4 wavelength radials extending out away from the tower (down toward
the ground but as high above it as possible).  What you have at this
point is a shunt fed 80M goundplane.   This combination will really
cook!  An instrument like the Autek RF-1 ($129.95 + $6 S&H) will
really uncomplicate your life.  One other twist is to use a remote
controlled (from the shack) battery powered screwdriver to turn a
vaccum variable capacitor (your series capacitor).  This will allow
you to QSY all over the band and simply tune out the inductive
reactance.  Good luck Terry.

de KN0Z  Gary



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Pedro Bastos)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need good antenna for recieving 41 Meter band...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:09:14 GMT
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Em 11 Nov 1996 07:09:43 GMT, [e-mail] escreveu:

> :) Hello-
> :)
> :) I am a newbie with an old Realistic DX-300 and I want to listen to
> :) Deutsche Welle on the 6085 (Malta/Canada) and the 6075 (Sines..wherever
> :) that is..).  My fiancee is a German native and I am trying to learn Germa
n
> :) and keep up with German news!  I had a wire thrown over my roof (about 65
'
> :) long north-south) and I could get these stations,  albeit poorly and
> :) noisily).  Recently I hung a north-south 50' horizontal wire (no tuner,
> :) no balun) and tho the 6075 is stronger,  it takes a lot of tweaking to
> :) keep out bleedover from the "religious stations",  and the 6085 is just
> :) lost in a bunch of noise.  How can I improve reception for these freq's?
> :) I might be able to afford a Radio Shack antenna tuner,  but room for a bi
g
> :) dipole or money for installing a long vertical isn't readily available...
> :) One more question - am I hoping for too much?  I would like to hear these
> :) stations more clearly and without the fade in / fade outs or noise from
> :) nearby stations.  I wonder how much of my problem is just the "nature of
> :) the beast",  i.e.,  international broadcasts are inherently noisy and
> :) unstable...  Can anyone help - remember,  I do not have a lot of money,
> :) but I can use my hands and a soldering iron with the best of them...
> :)
> :) Rockwell

For your information Sines is a cape in Portugal, an european country.
It's a few miles from Lisbon, the capital of Portugal. You should look
it up in the map.

Pedro Bastos
CT1FOV



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:36 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Self-resonance in loops
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:48:47 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
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References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
> In the ARRL Antenna Handbook, in the chapter on loops, there is a
> statement that loops should be less than 1/4 wavelength long to keep them
> from becoming self-resonant.

Hi Tommy, that statement occurs in the section on "Small Loops".
Small loops are *defined* as less than 1/4 WL. There is nothing
wrong with loops larger than small loops - they just don't obey
the same equations. The statement should have said "small loops",
by definition, are less than 1/4 WL... Self-resonant loops are, by
definition, not "small loops" and are of a different design.

A similar question might be: Why is 3.8 MHz called a High Frequency
when 3.8 MHz is not a high frequency at all? :-)

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:37 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Self-resonance in loops
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:50:08 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 16
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References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
> In the ARRL Antenna Handbook, in the chapter on loops, there is a
> statement that loops should be less than 1/4 wavelength long to keep them
> from becoming self-resonant.

Hi Tommy, that statement occurs in the section on "Small Loops".
Small loops are *defined* as less than 1/4 WL. There is nothing
wrong with loops larger than small loops - they just don't obey
the same equations. The statement should have said "small loops",
by definition, are less than 1/4 WL... Self-resonant loops are, by
definition, not "small loops" and are of a different design.

A similar question might be: Why is 3.8 MHz called a High Frequency
when 3.8 MHz is not a high frequency at all? :-)

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:38 1996
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From: Don Huff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:51:30 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Jorge E. Forero M. wrote:
>
> I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
> Is better like a simple dipolo?
> Can you tell me?
> Thanks in advance...
> Jorge
> YV6EDA
> [e-mail]

Jorge,

  Not only is a simple wire dipole 10 dB or more effective than a small
loop in/near structures, it is also much much less less expensive!  You
would be better to feed a center fed dipole with ladder line, and with
the money you have saved, you could afford to build a really nice
balanced tuner, with money left over.  That system will cover most
all bands with high efficiency.  Think about it.

  73, GL,
              Don, W6JL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:39 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: LPA for 10m,6m
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:54:38 GMT
Organization: OHSU
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.53.253.46
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

An open question to the group at large. I am limited to a single big antenna
on my roof at this point. I like the Create LPA in the HRO catalog but it
covers 50mhz-1300mhz and the wost thing is it's $449 which I find to be quite
expensive. I just purchased the BEAM ANTENNA HANDBOOK by Orr and Cowen and
have enjoyed reading it. What I didn't find is the discussion of either a dual

band yagi for 10m/6m or an LPA design.  I currently hold a tech-plus ticket an

work 2m SSB I am interested in the dead bands 10/6m. My questions are as
follows:

 1. Does anyone have design spec's for a multi-element dual band 6m,10m beam
either yagi or LPA (is one availible commerically?)

 2. Does anyone know of a reasonable priced LPA for 6m on up. The CREATE
CLP5130-1 at $449.95 is just too expensive or does anyone have plans for this
antenna.




          Thanks Brad WB7TSO

 if you don't mind please E-mail me your response in addition to posting since

my news reader sometimes fails to work and I'd hate to miss your reply.

   [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:40 1996
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From: Don Huff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:10:01 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 77
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Mike Valentine wrote:
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > >I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
> > >Is better like a simple dipolo?
> > >Can you tell me?
> >
> > A simple dipole at the same height is about 10-12 dB better on 14 MHz if
> > you have the room .
> >
> > 73 Tom
>
> Oh, I don't think it's quite that bad, Tom.  I had an AEA Iso-loop
> mounted at 110', horizontally polarized, on the side of my VHF/UHF tower
> for quite some time.  I took it down and replaced it with a CushCraft D4
> multiband trap dipole so I could run an amplifier to it.
>
> After the swap, I saw little to no difference between my memories of the
> loop to the performance of the dipole on any band 20/15/10.  I have a 75
> meter 1-wave horizontal loop that I A/B with either set-up and saw no
> difference that I could characterize as 10-12 dB!
>
> The 150 watt rating of the Iso-loop doesn't seem to be power-loss
> related.  10-12 dB of efficiency loss should absorb 90-95% of the
> transmitter's power in the antenna parts.  Wouldn't that make it
> hot to the touch?  I never found it hot to the touch after
> testing.
>
> Judging from the arcing sound from 200 watts on 20 meters that comes out
> of it when tested near the ground, I'd say it was voltage limited.
>
> I had many stations comment that it just couldn't be an Iso-loop and
> then say that maybe I was the only person that would admit to using one.
> Of course, the height was the thing that did it on band-barely-open DX.
> Still, it was kinda cool to open 15 meters to JA with 150 watts and an
> Iso-loop.
>
> How do you come by the 10-12 dB numbers?  My experience suggests less
> than a few dB if any dB inferiority.  And that would be from pattern,
> not loss.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Mike Valentine - W8MM (ex-WA8MSF)

  Hi Mike,

   The efficiency vs freq and conductor diameter, material, etc;  of
small loops is a well understood property.  It is thoroughly analyzed in
both of Kraus's books "Antennas".   I refer you to it,; it is simple
algebra, no heavy-duty math.  When you put in the parameters for an AEA
"ISOLOOP" you will find that it is at least 6 dB below a halfwave dipole
in far-field strength, in the most-favored direction (in the plane of
the loop), when operating in an IDEAL location (no lossy materials in
the near-field (ie,closer than 1/6 wavelength), etc.  That is the same
effect as reducing output power by a factor of 4.  This is the absolute
best that the loop can do; it does not include matching circuit losses,
or dielectric losses in the tuning capacitor (if any), or connection
losses due to non-brazed joints in the system. Remember, that the skin
depth at 14 MHz is less than .001 inch.  This means the surface
connections and conductivity of the loop material determine a large part
of the RF loss resistance. The radiation resistance of a 3M diameter
loop at 20M is a small fraction of an ohm.  The loss resistances must
all add up to a small part of this in order for the antenna to approach
the efficiency of a wire dipole (over 90 percent typically).  If you
were losing say 100 watts in heat in the loop, in the air, you would
never notice the temp rise.  When the loop is operated in environments
like the condo balcony you see in advertisements, you're talking about
many more dB of losses added to the above 6 dB number.
   The only quantitatively valid test for antenna comparisons is
far-field pattern measurement of two antennas in identical environments.
   Hope this is of some help.  No substitute for looking up the facts,
however.

 73,
       Don


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Problem tuning random wire...help!
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:27:43 -0500
Organization: Anderson Desktop Publishing
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56910g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dcc02685.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v1.01

In article <56910g$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>
> Hi!  I have a TS-820, an AT-180 tuner, and a newly installed
> 100 foot long, 30' high random wire that is well insulated from
> the supports.  Feeder is simply a hunk of 14ga insulated wire
> run to the rig.  I have a 'decent' ground (attachment to the
> ground rod below the power panel 10' from the rig outside).
>
> Problem?  I can't get the 820 to load properly with the tuner
> into this antenna.  In the past, I have used random wires and
> was able to load into them like crazy (different rigs), and make the inline
> SWR meter 'think' the antenna was right on resonance.  But all
> I can get now is a 'hot' load (high standing RF in the shack,
> and the SWR meter reads HIGHER in the 'ref' mode than in the
> 'fwd' mode).  My signal seems to get out ok, and the rig
> appears to load reasonable well, but I am concerned that I'm
> not getting that tight 'feel' when the tuner is able to make
> the whole thing resonate. The loading process seems mushy for
> some reason.  I have tried adding 20 or 30 feet of wire to the end
> to see if changing the resonant frequency would help, but no change.
>
> This problem seems prevalent on all of the low bands.  Since 20, 15, and
> 10 are so dead I haven't tried too much there yet (plus I have vertical
> for the upper bands).  Do I need a larger inductance/capacitance than
> the AT-180 is providing? Am I not doin something right?  What is the
> best way to make this work?
>
> Any ideas on what I may be doing wrong?
>
>
> email replies to [e-mail], as I don't check the group
> every day.
>
> Thanks
>
> 1Dave
> [e-mail]
>
Dave ...

    I had the same problem ... and I was running 2KW. I eliminated the RF
in the shack buy installing a counterpoise system. I used an MFJ ground
tuner, and ran from it about 60-75 feet of hookup wire out my window and
kept it off the ground with 10" stakes. The antenna worked great!!! and
the RF was out of the shack. The more reverse than forward power is
problably RF all over everything fooling your SWR meter.
--
Barry Anderson K3SUI
Frederick, MD. 21702
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:44 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Kutner)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: Re: Philistran
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:55:18 GMT
Organization: Voicenet - Internet Access - [phone]
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <56t9th$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] ("Anthony R. Gold") wrote:

>Can anyone educate me of Philistran or equivalents?  I am looking for
>some non-conductive line to use for boom support.  It should be
>sunlight tollerant and have very little elasticity or long term
>creep.  I need some for quite light duty applications, say 200 lbs
>test would be fine for me.

>What is the available lightest gauge of this stuff, and who will sell
>it to me in pretty small quantities (say 100 to 200 ft) at economical
>prices?

>Are there any warnings I should know on how to use this stuff
>properly?  Can it be treated just like wire rope with metal clamps
>and turnbuckles, or will this handling damage its rated performance?

>--
>   Tony - G3SKR / W2TG                   email: [e-mail]
>                                                [e-mail]
>                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na

Tony - I've used Phillystran to guy my tower. It's great stuff, when
used properly. I believe they make an 1800 lb variety, which should be
more than enough for a boom support.  They sell their own clamps,
which I suggest you use. I've heard stories of regular metal ones
cutting thru the jacket which protects the rope (Kevlar?) from the UV.

As an alternative, you may want to look at a rope made by Synthtic
Textiles. I believe it's Dacron covered polyester, and they have
several sizes available. Believe they advertise in QST or some of the
other publications. I've used this stuff to support the ends of a
number of wire antennas.
73 Barry W2UP





From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:45 1996
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From: Guy Fletcher <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 1296MHz Boom Corrrections
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:24:03 -0800
Organization: School of MPCE, Macquarie University
Lines: 4
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CC: [e-mail]

Does anyone have boom correction factors for 1296MHz,
15.9mm (5/8 inch) boom, 3.2mm (1/8 inch) elements?

Guy     VK2BBF


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Curt Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:34:31 GMT
Organization: Mystic Knights of the Sea
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <56tcc0$[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> wrote:
>R. A. Green wrote:
>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
>> wrote:
>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>> >adam turner
>> >[e-mail]
>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
>Tube type hand held?

  But of course.  Didn't you ever watch the TV show "Combat" (or re-runs).
One of their WWII portable radios was in a field pack, but another type
literally WAS a tube type hand held... a LARGE handheld, but a handheld
radio nonetheless.

  But for FREE?????  Well, I did get a handheld radio "almost" for free.
It was a handheld receiver only (scanner) that covered the 2 meter band
(and the 160 MHz range public service band) for only $5... AND, it even
came with some crystals for the four channels.  Unfortunately, none of them
were ham frequencies.

========== Opinions expressed are solely those of the author =========
Curt Phillips, CEM KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI)  |    Motto of the
Engineer/ Writer/ Gadgeteer/ Raconteur|    Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group:
Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group   |    "If it's expensive and
ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh ARS; NRA; AEE|      electronic, we like it."
==== [e-mail] ==== [Copyright 1996 All rights reserved]====



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:46 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 Meter Vs. LEO Status?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:02:37 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Anyone know status of the 2M controversy (to take away 2M spectrum and
assign it to LEO's)? Was this meant to enhance ORBCOMM coverage or add new
service?

Thanks!

Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:47 1996
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From: PitBull <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cushcraft ARX2B  Ringo Ranger
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:31:19 -0600
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)

I have owned the ARX2B for several years, and have moved several times
in the last 5 yrs or so.  In the meantime I have lost my Specifications
sheet, and have been unable to erect my Ringo Ranger for almost 2 years
now.  Can someone please post or Email me the Specifications to
[e-mail].
Thank you.

73's

Jamey L. Turcic
WL7GI


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MNJR or YA or update ??
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 23:38:52 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <56tgej$[e-mail]>
References: <56o2b3$[e-mail]> <56tgbs$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx14-15.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

My sincere apology. The software information was meant to go directly to
Dave by email -- I hit the wrong icon.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:49 1996
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From: Midnite^@home.com (Midnite)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help!! Need Instruction Sheet For AEA ISOPOLE 2 MTR ANT....
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:45:35 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rolla-mo-30.hwy66.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

Does anyone out there have the assembly instructions for the AEA 2 mtr
Isopole? I lost mine and need to find a copy or at least just the
mesurements for the different bands. If anyone can help me please
e-mail me a copy of just the band measurements.

   E-MAIL [e-mail]

                                             Thanks
                                                                WS3O



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:50 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:34:15 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 63
Distribution: world
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Here's my "secret" :)

I am a big believer in balanced line vs. coax. The basic "WB1GFH $4 SPECIAL" s
hown
below is a variation of the type of exceptional skyhook I've been using for ye
ars.
I've tried the commercial 450-ohm ladder line, but actually prefer 300-ohm TV
twinlead (the cheaper the better)!


                        ====      Center and end Insulators: hacksaw 3" sectio
ns
                       / || \     from acrylic adjusting rod used on mini-blin
ds.
                      /  ||  \    Drill two 1/8" holes for wire. (Cost: $0)
                     /   ||   \
                    /    ||    \
                   /     ||     \ 35 to 65 ft. of junk wire on each leg. (A 50
0
foot
                  /      ||      \  roll of #18 insulated cost me $3 at a loca
l
                 /       ||       \  surplus store)
                         ||
                  300 ohm twinlead. Cheap, brown indoor-type. 30 foot hunk bou
ght
                         ||         at a local yard sale. (Cost: $1)
                         ||
                      --------                   _______
                 ----|  tuner |--- 3 ft coax ---|  rig  |
                 |    --------                   -------
                 |
                 |
               _____  Ground wire to a lousy 4 foot ground rod.
                ___
                 -

Back in the 1980's, I got a pair of really cool antique glass antenna insulato
rs
from a flea market table in Derry, NH for 25 cents each. They looked like the
kind
Hiram Percy Maxim used in 1910. Sadly, I lost them somewhere along the line.

After finding out that Radio Shack wanted $3 apiece for new plastic crap
insulators, I improvised some by sawing up pieces of an acrylic adjusting rod
from
a discarded miniblind.

The tuner is an MFJ I got at deerfield for $15 a long time ago. I had the 65ft
.
per leg version in Masssachusetts, and it'd tune up on all bands 160-10. In
Burbank, CA, I only have room for a 35 ft. per leg version, so it tunes up on
40-10, but not 80/160. By the way, it's an inverted vee. I never had room for
a
full-on dipole.

The feedline comes straight in thru a window sash. The nice thing about the 30
0
ohm twinlead is that the small stuff only needs about 2" separation from metal

objects in its path. (OK, so TV Twinlead won't take a kilowatt, but the 450 oh
m
stuff you can obtain at ham stores will)

You can even get a 4:1 balun to go from the 450 ohm line to a length of coax s
o
you can bring that in thru the window and avoid winter drafts.

I never had the height to make this thing really play as it should. The one in

Mass. was up 50 ft. and worked fairly terrific DX. The one I have now is only
up
25 ft. and gets only average to poor results.

But for $4....who can complain?!

Try it ---you'll like it!

-jt-




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:51 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:46:38 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
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test.




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:53 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WT  GPS antenna info
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 01:48:37 GMT
Organization: NetAccess Internet Services
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56srso$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi ,
The GPS system works around 1.5Ghz.
I am also looking for information on antenna typology for satellite
receiver antennas at this frequency.
If you aqquire any info, could you please Email me with details.
Regards
Dave Huisman
Minilinx (NZ) Ltd
New Zealand


[e-mail] (Jacobson) wrote:

>I am interested in building antennas for GPS, and am having no luck in
>finding the frequencies and polarities used by the GPS system. Any
>information or pointers to info would be appreciated.

>TNX
>de KA0ZIL
>Steve Jacobson
>[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:54 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:56:42 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 64
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56togr$[e-mail]>
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X-URL: news:56n866$[e-mail]


I am a big believer in balanced line vs. coax. The basic "WB1GFH $4 SPECIAL" s
hown below
is a variation of the type of exceptional skyhook I've been using for years. I
've tried
the commercial 450-ohm ladder line, but actually prefer 300-ohm TV twinlead (t
he cheaper
the better)!


                        ====      Center and end Insulators: hacksaw 3" sectio
ns
                       / || \     from acrylic adjusting rod used on mini-blin
ds.
                      /  ||  \    Drill two 1/8" holes for wire. (Cost: $0)
                     /   ||   \
                    /    ||    \
                   /     ||     \ 35 to 65 ft. of junk wire on each leg. (A 50
0 foot
                  /      ||      \  roll of #18 insulated cost me $3 at a loca
l
                 /       ||       \  surplus store)
                         ||
                  300 ohm twinlead. Cheap, brown indoor-type. 30 foot hunk bou
ght
                         ||         at a local yard sale. (Cost: $1)
                         ||
                      --------                   _______
                 ----|  tuner |--- 3 ft coax ---|  rig  |
                 |    --------                   -------
                 |
                 |
               _____  Ground wire to a lousy 4 foot ground rod.
                ___
                 -

Back when I first got on the air, I got a pair of really cool antique glass an
tenna
insulators from a flea market table in Derry, NH for 25 cents each. They looke
d like the
kind Hiram Percy Maxim used in 1910. Sadly, I lost them somewhere along the li
ne.

After finding out that Radio Shack wanted $3 apiece for new plastic crap insul
ators, I
improvised some by sawing up pieces of an acrylic adjusting rod from a discard
ed
miniblind.

The tuner is an MFJ I got at a swapmeet for $15 a long time ago. I had the 65f
t. per leg
version working in Masssachusetts, and it'd tune up on all bands 160-10. At my
 Burbank,
California QTH, I only have room 35 ft. per leg version, so mine tunes up on 4
0-10, but
not 80/160. By the way, it's an inverted vee. I never had room for a full-on d
ipole.

The feedline comes straight in thru a window sash. The nice thing about the 30
0 ohm
twinlead is that the small stuff only needs about 2" seperation from metal obj
ects in its
path. (OK, so TV Twinlead won't take a kilowatt, but the 450 ohm stuff you can
 obtain at
ham stores will)

If you really want to get economical (and radical), try 110VAC power cable ("z
ip" cord).
Yeah, it'll work as balanced line, believe it or not! Impedace varies, but is
usually
"close enough" to work!

You can even get a 4:1 balun to make the transition from the balanced line to
a length of
coax so you can bring that in thru the window and avoid winter drafts.

I never had the height to make this thing really play as it should. The one in
 Mass. was
up 50 ft. and worked fairly terrific DX. The one I have now is only up 25 ft.
and gets
only average results, but I am not sure if I blame the antenna height or low s
unspots.

But for $4....who can complain?!

Try it ---you'll like it!

-jt-




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:55 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What is the highest watt linear amp one should use?
Date: 20 Nov 96 02:41:57 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

In a message dated 96-11-15 22:53:39 EST, Reginald M. Honyben wrote:

<<     Here is my question.  I want to add a linear amp to my set up.  What
 is the highest watt amp that I can use and still be safe?  Is my radio
 in any danger of being damage, or is it the reflected SWR only going to
 damage the amp?   So, in other words, does the linear amp protect the
 radio.
  >>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am several day behind on my reading.  I have read a few responses, and
agree with most.

If you have a 1/4 wave antenna, changing to a 5/8 wave will help a lot.
 Also, assuming that you are talking about 2m FM, you do not want a *linear*
amplifier.

That having been said, I think the answer to your question is IT DEPENDS.
 With the amplifier off, the HT will see the SWR of the antenna.  With the
amp on, the HT will see the SWR of the input of the amp, and the finals of
the amp will see the SWR of the antenna.  The amplifier output can go as high
as the maximum input into the antenna

I run a 2m HT with a 35 W amp and a Larsen 5/8 wave mag mount on my truck.  I
don't like to use battery power on the road if I can help it.  Also, I wasn't
sure if the amp could handle 5 W in (with 12 V into the HT), so I feed the HT
with 8.4V, using a DC / DC converter, giving 2.5W out of the HT.  (This also
keeps the finals of the HT cool.)

This arrangement gives me 4 power levels:
     Amp off:
             HT low----0.5 W
             HT high---2.5 W
     Amp on:
             HT low-----10 W
             HT high----35 W

35 watts will get me into a repeater 50-75 miles away (flat terrain).  So I
could put into memory most of the repeaters for the nest few hours of drive
time and scan memories.  And the next *potty break*, I just reprogram the
memories.


Good Luck,
Bob
KD8WU


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:56 1996
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From: [e-mail](Mike A. Frye)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: UHF slot antenna
Date: 20 Nov 1996 04:35:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56u1qv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56f96f$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lbx-ca27-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 19 10:35:43 PM CST 1996

In <56f96f$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Flanders)
writes:
>
>There is a full-wave slot antenna in one of my antenna books.  It was
>called a "stove pipe hat".  I'll try to find it this weekend.  What I
>remember is it was a piece of sheet metal wrapped around to form an 8"
>diameter pipe with about a 1" gap (I'm not sure of this).  It was fed
>in the middle.  I think the TI repeater in Dallas uses a slot for ATV.
>I'll check that out also.
>Regards
>   Jim W0oog/5
>
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>>
>>Looking for info on UHF slot type antenna. To be used for an ATV
>>repeater
>>on 439 Mhz.
>>
>>Ideas?
>>
>>Comments
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Gary
>>K3SJX
>>[e-mail]
>>[e-mail]
>

Hi, I have been curious about using a slot for 2m SSB. Any more ideas
or comments??
Thanks, Mike.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:57 1996
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From: [e-mail] (ReX the Porn Hound)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.film+labs,rec.photo.marketplace,rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.technique.art,rec.photo.technique.misc,rec.photo.technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people,rec.ponds,rec.puzzles,rec.puzzles.crosswords,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What to do  with these guys?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 05:24:40 GMT
Organization: Slutz_R_Us
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <56u4vr$[e-mail]>
References: <56ii7j$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56spsd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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** USE-BOMBER **

  Yesterday, police announced that an unknown group or individual has
been mailing letter bombs in a style similar to that of the infamous
'unabomber'. This new individual has, however, been targeting his
attacks at users of a part of the internet known as "News Groups", or
USENET.
  In recent years electronic chain letters have become more and more
popular, urging the reader to send a dollar to the addresses listed
(usually about 5-10), and then add their own address and pass the
letter
on to as many people as possible.
  However someone has been mailing a letter bomb with each dollar to
many of the addresses listed on these 'postings'. No one has, as yet,
been killed, but two computer users have been hospitalized.

  Police are urging internet users not to put their addresses out in
this fashion, although, so far, only addresses from the so called
'make
money fast' postings have been targeted.
[snip]


[e-mail] (J. Jon Brophy) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
>Christopher R. Chaffee, President <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>Post your crap here again, you'll be reported to the Postmaster
>>General's Office's Consumer Fraud Division.
>>What you're doing is highly illegal.
>>You'll get busted anyway.
>>When 9,000 pieces of mail get shipped to your address in a 4 week
>>period, they'll take the legal peek inside. You're BUSTED!!
>>Defending yourself in a federal court will cost more than the $9,000
>>you THINK you'll make.(They'll keep it all anyway)
>>Kinda changes your math figures a bit, huh??

>Hey don't get too upset.  You see they are leaving their name and addresses
>on the net for all to see and do with as they like.
>Now I would never take their name and use it in an "illegal" manner
>as they have themselves, but there are lots of things one can do with
>these names......

>Cheers,
>Jon


>>
>>The Wanderer wrote:
>>>
>[essentials deleted]

>>>
>>>    1- John Chen
>>>        1286 W. Adams Bl. Apt#1
>>>        Los Angeles  CA USA 90007
>>>
>>>    2- Eric Chan
>>>        1225 H street Apt#22
>>>        Davis, CA USA 95616
>>>
>>>    3- LeMar Davidson
>>>       6232 Walton Ave.
>>>       Philadelphia, PA USA 19143
>>>
>>>    4- dsg
>>>       439 N. Salisbury
>>>       W. Lafayette, IN USA 47906
>>>
>>>    5- P. Schneider
>>>       192 Penistone Road North
>>>       SHEFFIELD S61QA
>>>       UK
>>>






From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:40:58 1996
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From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.film+labs,rec.photo.marketplace,rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.technique.art,rec.photo.technique.misc,rec.photo.technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people,rec.ponds,rec.puzzles,rec.puzzles.crosswords,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What to do  with these guys?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 05:52:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56u6ai$[e-mail]>
References: <56ii7j$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56spsd$[e-mail]> <56u4vr$[e-mail]>
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In <56u4vr$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (ReX the Porn
Hound) writes:
>
>** USE-BOMBER **
>
>  Yesterday, police announced that an unknown group or individual has
>been mailing letter bombs in a style similar to that of the infamous
>'unabomber'. This new individual has, however, been targeting his
>attacks at users of a part of the internet known as "News Groups", or
>USENET.

    SOOOO?  Why are you spamming all the listed newsgroups.  No prior
has been on rec.radio.amateur.antenna.  Gawd!

    And, from a fictitious address yet.  Ya know, some people are
just tripe or worse.  Well ...perhaps never grown from their juvinile
stage of life.  ReX the Porn ...this is you?


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Helis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:10:40 GMT
Organization: InterSurf Online, Inc.
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <56u7p7$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]> <56rbcv$[e-mail]> <56rt5p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-21.dialup.intersurf.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] () wrote:

>>I've used an ISOLOOP and made some good contacts with it.  I've worked
>>all over the U.S. with it, and into the Carribean.  Haven't worked any
>>serious DX with it yet at this QTH yet.  I'm an an apartment on the
>>second floor and sit it on the balcony.

>Hi Jonathan,

>Don't get me wrong, but your comment is out of place here. Everyone
>knows that you can make good contacts with a poor antenna, and
>your success only proves your good operating procedures.

>Exaggerated advertizing claims backed by "sucess" stories
>are really obnoxious. May be spaghetti manufacturers should boost
>their sales by founding a wet noodle award.

>73, Moritz DL5UH

I am not advertising the Isoloop at all, I am not in the antenna
business, and get no compensation for it.  I was just stating my
experiences with it.

Thanks for the compliment on my operating procedures.  Since I have
been living in cramped quarters for the past 5 years, I've been forced
to deal with compromise antennas, as well as running 100 watts or
less.  I've had to learn a few tricks to get through the big guns, and
actually have a few times<grin>

Later...


73,

Jonathan Helis, KB5IAV
Baton Rouge, Lousiana, USA

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:01 1996
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From: "Timothy Chan" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: help
Date: 20 Nov 1996 06:28:52 GMT
Organization: Ming Kee Electric
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <01bbd6ad$d2a781e0$778145ca@timchan>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129-119.speednet.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157

Who can use sound card rec. SSTV . can tell me where is dowmload program?


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:02 1996
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From: "Mark Bryant" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna spacing?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 07:03:09 GMT
Organization: SOHObusiness Services
Lines: 16
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Wait, that was almost a joke.  Way to help the new folks!

Mark

Bea and Marvin Jones <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<56seh3$[e-mail]>...
> Ted Sarah ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : Is there any rule of thumb for the spacing between antennas?
>
> Yup.  And, the best part is: There are hundreds.
>
> --
> Jonesy  W3DHJ
>
> "Standards are nice.  And so many to chose from."
>


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:03 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Phil)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.uk,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: FS.  Portable Antenna Analyzer,   7 - 510MHz
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:29:31 GMT
Organization: Global Internet Access
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Xref: news1.epix.net alt.radio.uk:9312 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31814 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42710 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118529

I have a portable Antenna Analyzer for sale.
It is a portable unit run from NiCad batteries with charger. It uses a
LCD 4 digit frequency counter, an analogue SWR / %reflected power
scales read direct. No radio Tansmitter needed. It sees exactly what
the radio sees.
Only R2200-00. Still under guarantee. Used only once.
Ideal for the antenna experimenter.

Call Rob @ [phone]              [phone]
or Email [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: WHY antennas of "5/8" wavelength?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:59:10 GMT
Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <56uabd$[e-mail]>
References: <56p1o5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:

>Hi Alan,

>In article <56p1o5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Alan
>Fowler) writes:

>>      Something that isn't often taken into account is the "skin effect"
>of
>>the earth.  It's a long time since I looked seriously at this, but my
>>recollection is that the skin effect in "good" soil is about 40 feet
>>at 1 MHz.  That means that a substantial part of the current has to
>>curve upwards to flow into the base of the aerial, with the maximum
>>losses in an annular voulme about a third of a wavelength from the
>>antenna base.

>Those are the approximate numbers as I understand them.

>>      Again, if I remember rightly, the ground plane (the radials) has
>to
>>terminate the electric field produced by the antenna as well as
>>collect the returning current from the far field.

>I don't agree with that "picture". That is what throws people off in their
>analysis.

>For example, Devoldere claims if a single elevated radial is used, all
>displacement current "flows" ( we know there are no real charge movements,
>just field effects so I use the term "flow" loosely)  between the radial
>and antenna.

>This is totally untrue because displacement current "flows" between the
>radial and earth and earth and the antenna. The lossy soil is still very
>much in this path.

>>This is why we use
>>so many radials at M.F.  We also keep them as close to the surface as
>>possible to reduce dielectric losses, but deep enough for the soil to
>>be moist enough for good contact.  It's a balancing act.

>Our conclusions are the same, but we part company a bit here Alan.

>We need no earth contact at all with time varying currents in the system.
>The induction fields (electric and magnetic) as well as radiation fields
>couple the wire very tightly to the earth, so long as the radial is close
>to the earth in terms of wavelength and physical aperture.

>Imagine two parallel 60 foot wires excited with 7 MHz RF. Measure current
>in one while exciting the other. Move the wires together or apart and you
>will see little change in coupling until the wires are a large fraction of
>their length apart. Once they are even a few feet apart, it is like they
>are connected.

>So the earth "connection" is made anytime the radial is anywhere near
>earth, direct contact ONLY effects dc and very low frequency signals.

>In all the rest, we seem to agree (except there is no "returning current
>from the far field"). The antenna emits EM fields, it is not an electron
>gun. If the system required return current, we would play hell
>communicating with satellites, working EME, or listening to galactic
>emissions.

>Return current is a misnomer, and should be withdrawn from discussions of
>verticals. My horizontal dipole antenna has just as much ground loss as my
>vertical for the same field intensity per given volume of soil, and it has
>no "return current".

Hi Tom,
        It's about 35 years since I worked on antennas, and I seem to have
gottenmyself a bit mixed up.  I'll have to get my old text books out
and read up on this again.
        Thanks for taking the time to explain.  I'll get back in a few days.
                        regards,  Alan.
  ,-._|\  Alan Fowler.
 /  Oz  \ Mail Address: PO Box 272, Balwyn 3103 Vic, AUSTRALIA.
 \_,--.x/ Phone: [phone]  Member, Melbourne PC User Group.
       v  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Juha Kupiainen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Stacking monoband yagis
Date: 20 Nov 1996 08:02:49 GMT
Organization: Enermet Oy
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <56udv9$[e-mail]>
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Hello!

What is the optimum distance between two stacked 5-el monoband yagis and what
is this the best average height? Or should the lower be at 0.75 wavelenght?

73

Juha / OH4JK



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:06 1996
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From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Updated Homepage
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:48:58 -0800
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 4
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Just updated my Page.. Check out my 1967 ss/rs camaro!!!!!!!
-
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860/
Dave Booth kc6wfs dm04


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: CHAOTIC FRACTAL ANTENNA REFERENCES
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:17:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Dave--

It may seems peculiar that terms such as 'random fractal' or 'chaotic
fractal' are used, but they are part of the fractal description. I did not
invent these terms. The class of fractals you describe are called
'deterministic' fractals.

That such random or chaotic fractals have application in electromagnetics
has long been established.
73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:07 1996
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From: "Paul Giusti [VK3FPG]" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: am broadcast loop antennas
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:13:50 +1100
Organization: Internet Access Australia
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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I have been looking with no success for some plans or constructional
information for a broadcast band (500-1700khz) loop antenna and am
hoping someone out there may be in a position to e- mail me some plans
or direct me to a web resource that has this information available.

  I am just beginning this aspect of the hobby and would be appreciative
of any help anyone can offer.

              Thanks in advance

                     Paul Giusti  [VK3FPG]



--
 Paul Giusti       Rxvrs        Decoders
 VK3FPG           NRD-525       Hoka Code3
                  IC-706        Hoka Code3 Gold
 P.O.BOX 548      IC-737a       Universal M-6000v9
 Elsternwick      WINRADIO      UNIVERSAL M-1200
 Australia        PRO-2006      KAM+
 3185
                       member of WUN

 Facsimile [phone]
 e-mail [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:09 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 20 Nov 1996 12:17:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Tom--

Your EZNEC results on antennas within a 1/8 by 1/8 wave area sounds
intriguing.

I think I can confirm some of it; needs some additional details.

The 'H' antenna you describe sounds like an antenna I modelled in Sept.
Its a dipole (center fed) with length 1/8 wave with end 'caps' each 1/8
wave, center attached. In other words, an end-capped dipole, as I alluded
to as a possibility for you to try.  At 14 MHz, with copper losses, wire
width 0.002 waves, I actually get slightly higher FS, about 1.8dBi
broadside. However, this is STILL NOT a -resonant--antenna at the
frequency corresponding to the 1/8 wave dimensions. It needs additional
loading, presumably coils, to get it to resonance. Indeed, the presence of
additional loads degrades the FS by at least 1/2 dBi at this HF frequency;
substantially more at microwave. Also, the width is pretty big for the
wire, and thinner wire might apply better, with worse results.

Another possibility, a variation on the 'H',  is to try a 'z' where the
diagonal is center feed and the loading is, well, the other parts of a
'z'.

Just so we're talking apples and apples, cud you please tell me more about
this antenna you modelled? Was it also coil-loaded? If so, where did you
put the coils? How is it different from the one I just described?

Do you have a candidate for a resonant antenna --sans discrete loads--
inside the box?

As for the loop, again most intriguing. Please give the geometry (quad?)
and placement of coils. Would also help if you tried a couple of cases
with coils of Q 150 or so. Bandwidth also very much needed for
understanding.

Finally on the issue of bandwidth. Let's agree again that it's the FS that
counts, not the rad resistance, for gain performance comparison. But do
you disagree with this statement: a folded dipole has greater bandwidth
than a 'regular' one (both 1/2 wave largest dimension)--and both have
about the same FS?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:09 1996
From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LOOP ARRAY
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:48:50 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <56v2c4$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56qc67$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:


>Among the things I don't know is how much a small tuning adjustment will
>affect the phase of the current in an element. If the effect is large, this
>might limit the practicality of the system.

>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy,
    The effect of element tuning on the phasing could be an advantage
in that one could make small adjustments to the tuning and change the
pattern.  You could steer a null, or maximize f/b, or gain.

Just a thought.

Dudley



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:10 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Had to repair G5RV will it work OK
Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:03:49 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 3
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The balanced line that is connected to the antenna broke off and I had to
cut off less than two inchesto reconnect the transmission line how much of
an effect to you think this will have. Thanks.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:06:27 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <56v3d5$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Stephen John Farthing <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>I have read that claim, but I find the advertising claim impossible to
>>believe.
>>
>>Are you aware of any independent users of the CFA?
>>
>>73 Tom
>No but presumably the Egyptian broadcaster is an independent user and
>would have checked it out before buying. I wonder if we could verify
>this by posting something to one of the shortwave groups? It is illegal
>in the UK to make false claims when advertising and the authorities do
>prosecute.

>I have a copy of a design for a CFA in SPRAT, the G QRP club mag. It's
>not by GM3HAT and it is claimed to work. I may have a go at making one.
>If I do I'll let you if it works.
>--
>Stephen John Farthing MBCS G0XAR
>Melksham, Wiltshire UK
>RSGB G-QRP 7766


Thank you all for your response.  The CFA is my favorite voodoo
antenna.  Intellectually, I know that there must be something wrong
with the CFA theory.  In there somewhere is one of those proofs that
seem to show that 1 = 2, if you get right down to it.  In one of the
Wireless World issues soon after the CFA article came out, was  a
testimonial from someone who built one.  Unfortunately, this guy was
even more of a crackpot.  He had about 200 ft of open wire line
feeding the thing connected directly to some coax.  I even think the
open wire line ran up through the walls of his house.

But even with all of the odd subjective verbiage (as Tom points out)
and the voodoo experiments, I still harbor a secret desire to see the
thing work.  So, at the risk of seeming like a crackpot, I would like
to continue to solicit comments from anyone who has first hand
experience with using one and making objective comparisons against
something from our dimension.

Stephen, how could I get a copy of the SPRAT article?  I would be very
interested in your results.  A lot of good antenna work comes out of
the UK.  A whole new world opened up for me when I discovered G3XN.
There seems to be a lot inbreeding of ideas and antenna designs in
publications from the ARRL, so his book was like a breath of fresh air
to me.

Dudley, WA1X /8



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Log Periodic antenna vs Yagi
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:38:38 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <56v58b$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <563gq4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56gs60$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip93.cleveland2.oh.interramp.com
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[e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse) wrote:

>Hi Dudley,  why  will "logs" in a "stack" perform better than
>monobanders with individual higher gain in a stack (assuming both
>systems have same spaceing and tuned and matched correctly).
>73, Jesse, W6KKT

Jesse,
  Sorry, I confused the issue by using the term "stack" to mean two
different things.  The installations that I am familiar with started
out with two stacks of 4 monobanders.  Each stack consisted of a close
spaced set of monobanders, but the two stacks were separated by about
65 ft on a 130 ft tower.
    Each stack was replaced by a single LPA, so the end result was an
LPA at about 130 ft, and an LPA at about 70 ft.  The model and the
practice showed that the f/b on any one of the LPAs was better than
any of the monobanders in the closed spaced stacks.  The gain was also
equivalent, only because these LPAs were huge (18 elements, 65 ft
boom, there were awesome to behold when on the ground.)
     I think it would be very difficult to retune all of the elements
of the monobanders in a close spaced stack to correct for the
interaction.  Even if you could, you could not eliminate currents on
the elements of other monobanders from the monbander  that was being
driven.  All of the nondriven elements in the stack will be parasitic
and probably be detrimental to pattern.
    I didn't mean to suggest that the LPAs were somehow more immune to
interaction when they are stacked close together.  However, they do
tend to be a bit less sensitive to proximity detuning because no
single element has high currents.  The current is distributed over
many of the elements in a "cell" that is centered around the elements
that are close to resonance.  A yagi with close spaced parasitic
elements will have high currents on the director and parasitics, and
will tend to be more detuned by proximity to metal.
     Once again, a single well designed monobander will outperform an
equivalent sized LPA for gain and f/b.  LPAS are bigger, heavier and
have more snow and wind loading.  Its just when you start close
stacking monobanders, they interact, compromising their performance.
When you compare the stacked monobanders against the LPA and a trapped
multi-band beam, I feel that the LPA starts to look attractive.

Dudley, WA1X /8



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:14 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.encore.com!psoper
From: [e-mail] (Pete Soper)
Subject: Re: Height of dipole?
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:26:20 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: sysgem1.encore.com
References: <01bbd6d8$0fc884a0$[e-mail]>
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Hi Rick,

"Rick Lapp" <[e-mail]> writes:

>I have a center fed zepp (120 ft) up at about 40 feet, fed with 50 feet of

Lately I've been seeing "zepp" apparently used as a synonym for "dipole"
or "doublet". Is there a distinction that you've left out, or is this
antenna you're describing in fact a 75m halfwave dipole?

I'd suggest getting the demo version of Elnec and modeling the antenna
at the two positions. If high angle gain goes up, your "local" ragchews
will probably improve. If a null forms overhead (not likely!) then the
results would be bad.

I'd throw another experiment into the mix with Elnec, and this is a
plain piece of wire just above the ground, below and in parallel with
the antenna element. If the low wire is a bit above a halfwavelength
on 75m you may find it improves high angle gain. This is the kind of
simple setup that can provide lots of fun with a modeling program.

Regards,
Pete
KS4XG


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ignacy Misztal)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 20 Nov 1996 15:57:00 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <56v9oc$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Ignacy Misztal)
NNTP-Posting-Host: num.ads.uga.edu
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.00

In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>In article <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]>, "Jorge
E.
>Forero M." <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>>
>>I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
>>Is better like a simple dipolo?
>>Can you tell me?
>
>A simple dipole at the same height is about 10-12 dB better on 14 MHz if
>you have the room .
>
>73 Tom

My experience is that a small vertical loop at 7ft is as good or
better as a dipole at 15ft if there are no obstructions at 7ft.  A
while ago, I could clearly receive a station on a loop that was
totally buried in noise on the dipole.  I think that the vertical
orientation and the ability to rotate that loop were important
factors. The same loop at 7ft oriented horizontally was a dummy load.


Ignacy Misztal              Ham radio: NO9E, SP8FWB
E-mail: [e-mail]
University Of Georgia, 203 L-P Bldg., Athens, GA 30602
tel. [phone]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:16 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Palomar PFS-1 Field Strength Meter
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:37:22 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 11
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Got one and it seems to work just fine. A vernier 0-10dB
adjusting pot would allow two or more devices to be
calibrated against each other. N5AQM and I ran a test
last night on the 2m antennas that came with an IC-24AT
and Alinco DJ580, vs a Comet ch72s. The 24AT antenna was
2.5dB down from the ch72s and the DJ580 antenna was 5.5dB
down from the ch72s. I replaced the DJ580 antenna with the
ch72s a couple of years ago. I knew it was a lot better
but didn't know how much better until now.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:17 1996
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:29:22 +0100
From: William Vynck <[e-mail]>
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To: MICHAEL J DRUM <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Want Kenwood IF-10D Computer Interface.
References: <56l7cr$[e-mail]> <56na4m$[e-mail]>
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MICHAEL J DRUM wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I want to buy a Kenwood IF-10D Computer interface for my TS-60. If you
> have one for sale please contact me at my Email address and let me know
> the details. I will answer all reply's sent.
>
> Thank You.
>
> Mike>


DONT BUY !!

To expencive, i could send you the chematics to build one.


73
William


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Greg LaP.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Vs. LEO Status?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:41:50 GMT
Organization: none
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Orbcomm is spread spectrum 136-137, 148-149 approx.



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:19 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Greg LaP.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: HF Antenna
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:46:39 GMT
Organization: none
Lines: 12
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I have for sale a HYGAIN DX-88 all band vertical antenna.  Also comes
with a hinged (tilt over) ground mounted mast.  This mast is about 4
feet long and when in the ground, only about 1 foot is extended above
the ground which is hinged.  Price $ 200.00 firm.  The antenna is
tuned and is sitting in a garage.  The antenna was bought used for
$325.00 plus $ 40.00 for the base.  The person had it up for 2 months
and then past away.

                Greg
                [e-mail]




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:19 1996
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From: TIM MENARD <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: satillite antenna
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:31:39 -0800
Organization: LUCKY  7 SOFTWARE
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Hi

I would like to know whats the best antenna to pickup satillite signal.
I'm new to DXing And I,m just getting in to it. Also can  I use a
scanner
to pick up the satillites to, or do I need to get a differnt radio, if
so
what would be a good starter radio to use? Thanks for any help that
someone can give me.

TMAN
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:21 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Pete Soper)
Subject: Re: Had to repair G5RV will it work OK
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:50:29 GMT
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Hi,

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna you write:

>The balanced line that is connected to the antenna broke off and I had to
>cut off less than two inchesto reconnect the transmission line how much of
>an effect to you think this will have. Thanks.

Too little to notice at all in my experience. Don't sweat it.

But if your G5 has a run of coax, put an extra seal in the places where
the balanced line enters the balun and the coax leaves it and carefully
seal the coax connector if it is outdoors. Water in the coax is real bad.
The seal into and out of the balun of my original G5RV disintegrated
after less than a year.

I've got two 102 foot dipoles (like G5 but straight ladderline feeders)
One is "rotated" 40 degrees from the other. I use a remotely controlled
Radio Shack 10 amp relay to switch the balanced lines (bring the lines
in at right angles to each other into the relay). EZNEC predicted this
would give very nice coverage through non-overlapping lobes on 20 meters
and improved coverage on 15 meters. Experience with the Sweepstakes contest
this weekend confirmed this. The signal strength stunk in comparison to
just about everybody else (i.e. using yagis on towers), but at least
it stunk on two sets of four bearings :-) I'd make a few contacts on
20m until they dried up, flip the switch, make a few more, flip the
switch, collect the next batch of folks trolling the band, etc. Quite
fun! (but why is it that you call "CQ", get nothing for a minute, then
three callers simultaneously, then the whole thing repeats?)

One more story about a G5. Hurricane Fran came to visit me recently
and when an 80 foot Oak fell in my backyard it snagged the wire of one
of my G5s. I was using a 4x4 inch by 8 foot landscape timber as a
counterweight from a pulley near the top of the tree. That timber was
yanked 50 feet into the tree as the G5 wire was hauled almost to the
ground in the middle. When I came out to check for damage around 7am
I saw no sign of the G5 at first. Then I spotted it, freed the wire
and watched the timber come crashing back to the ground! I did bring
the antenna down to check it but found no problems. Dang, that #14
copperweld is strong stuff! The center insulator was 1/4" sheet acrylic
and the end insulators were the 1/2" by 3 inch kind that Radio Shack
sells.

Regards,
Pete
KS4XG


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Terry Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mosely V-5 vertical
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:56:51 -0800
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <56vk9j$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com

Question:

Been getting ready to put up a Mosely V-5 vertical 10,15,20,40,80 meters
that is approximately 40 feet high with 3 traps. All I really want is for
the thing to work on 40/80 and maybe 160 (later probably). What I am wonder-
ing is can one or two of the traps be elliminated and tubing of a certain
length be used to replace them so the antenna will work only on the bands
I want and have less loss. Been reading ON4UN's book Low Band DXing and
believe the antenna could be made better with a capacitance hat and
maybe adding some height to it but not sure how to figure out how to come
close to 3.8Mhz and 7.2Mhz. Not sure what elliminating a trap will do
to the other bands, don't they use the inductance of all the traps to
bring the antenna into resonance or do they just isolate the upper part
of the antenna on the higher bands and act as shorts on the lower band?
How to figure out what lenght of tubing is needed to replace them?

This is a big antenna and mechanically requires some planning putting it up.
Probably a dual set of guyes like it was designed for although I did install
crossed aluminum angles with diamond shaped guys on it to make it stronger.
Got 16 stakes in circle 33 feet from antenna that I've looped radials around a
nd
will cut them in two at the stakes after I see how it performs this way.
Burying them is going to take some figuring, alot of work! Best length I
figure I can get for the guys right now and close to what the ARRL Ant Hndbk
says. Totally different than what ON4UN's book says for optimum number of
radials of a certain percentage of wavelength.

Would like to add an inductor and wire off the top to make an inverted L for
160 too but how would that effect the other bands?

Terry
KI7M






From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:24 1996
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From: [e-mail] (/E00680/cstevens/Carl Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people,rec.ponds,rec.puzzles,rec.puzzles.crosswords,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: Re: Save 80% On Your Grocery Bills!!!
Followup-To: rec.photo.technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people,rec.ponds,rec.puzzles,rec.puzzles.crosswords,rec.pyrotechnics,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Date: 20 Nov 1996 19:27:52 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Martin M & S, Sunnyvale, CA
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[e-mail] wrote:
: THIS is Your Problem!!!

Sorry for the massive crosspost. This is just to let everyone know that
I sent a complaint about this spam to [e-mail]. I am not
advocating that everyone do this and bring the system to it's knees -
that would be a personal choice.

I think I'll send a complaint to [e-mail] also; just to
make sure the bases are covered.


Carl Stevens                      _\_/^\_/_          Long EZ N223MM
[e-mail]  _____/_/_/|\_\_\_____    And one on the way!

"The right of self-defense is the first law of nature ... and when
 the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color
 or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already
 annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
 -- St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:26 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:43:08 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 23
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More ranting on antennas:

Sure, you can find wire antennas for sale in the back pages of Ham
magazines costing $50 or even $100 or more. But, beware. Marconi spins
in his grave everytime a ham buys one of these antenna "kits"!

Look: the plain and simple truth is that wire antennas for the HF bands
were intended to be hand-made and not store-bought.  Untold generations
of Radio Hams built virtually all their own equipment out of spit and
baling wire.  In this world of microprocessor-controlled micro-rigs,
this may be your only chance to build anything. Think about it.

One bonus of "rolling your own" antenna is that it costs you next to
nothing. Don't be intimidated by SWR, either. Your rig will not blow up
and kill you. Most modern rigs will politely refuse to transmit into
really bad match. A perfect 1:1 SWR is for sissies, anyway.  All *real*
hams have conducted perfectly good QSO's at 2:1, and even 3:1 at some
time or another.  Anyhow, I recommend a tuner. That, you can buy with a
clear conscience.

-jt-




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:27 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: "Bruce L. Bevelheimer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Antenna design software
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: tia1.eskimo.com
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:38:28 GMT
Lines: 22

You can also find versions of the full, original NEC2 compiled to run under
MSDOS and several flavors of Unix at the same location as MININEC:
ftp.netcom.com/pub/ra/rander/NEC. BUT: this is definitely a do-it-yourself
project. There is no documentation provided! However, it's all free....

If you're interested, get the file 00-index.txt for a listing of the
various files available. I run the 512 or 960-segment version from
nec-pc.zip (requiring 16M or 32M of RAM) as a DOS program under Win95.
There are several files of examples at this location which were enough to
get me started after a lot of trial and error, although I'm sure I'm not
using the full resources of the program.

Bruce, W3GDZ

Roy Lewallen <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<56qd77$[e-mail]>...
> (deleted...)
>
> None of these programs is in Windows, although ELNEC and the ELNEC demo
> will run under Windows as a DOS application. I don't know of any free or
> shareware Windows antenna design or analysis programs.
> ...


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (chuck adams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 40m Beam Owners
Date: 20 Nov 1996 23:21:02 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 40
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <5703ou$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: chuck.dallas.sgi.com

Gang,

I hope this is not an imposition on this group.
I apologize up front if it is.

I need your help.  If you have a 40m beam with
pretty good F/B and directivity.  Please take
notes.   Especially you Force 12 owners at 85'
and greater.

7.039MHz is the place

On 40m after sunset and maybe through the night
you may be able to hear the 'single-letter'
beacons.  These are beacons somewhere in the world
sending a single letter either at 13 wpm or 18-20 wpm.
With a small pause between each letter.  No other IDs
sent at any time.

I personally have heard the F, S, and N beacons.
Just this morning heard the S beacon for the first time.

Note the time and freq and your call and QTH, which
beacon and the best direction you can copy the signal.
I'll triangulate and we'll solve this little mystery
once and for all.  Surely someone may know where these
puppies are located but if you can hear them in the
US you can hear long DX.

Anyone have the scoop on this send me email to
[e-mail]

Think of this as an exercise and test of your antenna
system.

dit dit

--
Chuck Adams (K5FO CP-60) WAS 40m/30m/20m=49/49/50 @0.95W
EMPS  QSOs=109  STATES(w/c)=34/2  DX=0  on 80m 2.0W


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (NuView Television)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: JPS ANC-4 noise canceller any good??
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:42:34 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 26
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On Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:35:15 -0800, "John T. Young"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>Anyone have any experiences with the JPS ANC-4 noise canceller?
Excellent!!!

The key to the ANC4 is to rig an antenna into the 4 that will generate
a signal with the same ampitude as is appearing on the receiver.

I have a loose insulator on a power pole a quater of a mile from my
working antenna ... puts a 20 over signal on the rig. I feed my 80
meter delta loop into the 4 and I can null the 20 over down to
0!!!!!!! "NO NOISE"!!!

One of my friends has a TV cable problem as the feed line with its
superimposed AC components leaks a S9  signal on his receiver ... he
hooked a peice of RG58 to the 4 and ran the other end 60' to the other
side of the house, and  coupled it to the TV cable ... NO MORE NOISE!!

Yes you'll loose 1/2 a S unit but who cares!!

Bill






From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:30 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Dual band Antenna
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:55:37 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
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paulyim wrote:
> I plan to use this dual band antenna for both 2M mobile
> and dual band HT.

Hi Paul, for awhile, I used a dual band comet with mag mount
for both mobile and fixed operation. I brought the antenna
inside and used it on top of a big steel filing cabinet which
furnished the necessary ground plane and no tuner needed.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:31 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:01:17 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Antenna Tuner
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
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Have a MFJ-962C Versa Tuner III.  Less than a year old in great
Condition.  Less that 1 hour on air time.  Original box and instructions.
Want $100.  This is a once in a lifetime deal for this type of antenna tuner.

If interested send me e-mail to [e-mail] or call
904-234-1684 and ask for Rodman.

Thanks and 73's
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:32 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What is the highest watt linear amp one should use?
Date: 21 Nov 96 00:20:04 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


In a message dated 96-11-15 22:53:39 EST, Reginald M. Honyben wrote:

 <<     Here is my question.  I want to add a linear amp to my set up.  What
  is the highest watt amp that I can use and still be safe?  Is my radio
  in any danger of being damage, or is it the reflected SWR only going to
  damage the amp?   So, in other words, does the linear amp protect the
  radio.
   >>
 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 I am several day behind on my reading.  I have read a few responses, and
 agree with most.

 If you have a 1/4 wave antenna, changing to a 5/8 wave will help a lot.
  Also, assuming that you are talking about 2m FM, you do not want a *linear*
 amplifier.

 That having been said, I think the answer to your question is IT DEPENDS.
  With the amplifier off, the HT will see the SWR of the antenna.  With the
 amp on, the HT will see the SWR of the input of the amp, and the finals of
 the amp will see the SWR of the antenna.  The amplifier output can go as
high
 as the maximum input into the antenna

 I run a 2m HT with a 35 W amp and a Larsen 5/8 wave mag mount on my truck.
 I
 don't like to use battery power on the road if I can help it.  Also, I
wasn't
 sure if the amp could handle 5 W in (with 12 V into the HT), so I feed the
HT
 with 8.4V, using a DC / DC converter, giving 2.5W out of the HT.  (This also
 keeps the finals of the HT cool.)

 This arrangement gives me 4 power levels:
      Amp off:
              HT low----0.5 W
              HT high---2.5 W
      Amp on:
              HT low-----10 W
              HT high----35 W

 35 watts will get me into a repeater 50-75 miles away (flat terrain).  So I
 could put into memory most of the repeaters for the nest few hours of drive
 time and scan memories.  And the next *potty break*, I just reprogram the
 memories.


 Good Luck,
 Bob
 KD8WU



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:33 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 21 Nov 1996 01:37:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Tom--

Another question about the uniform in-phase loop you modelled in the 1/8
by 1/8 wave box.

I am perplexed by something; perhaps you can clarify.

I dug out my copy of Foster's 1944 paper, and the discussion of such
antennas in Kraus (easiest way to see the graph is in Kraus (Antennas)).
For such an antenna its gain is 1.8 dB. That's virtually identical to what
you found for the modelled, loaded loop which incorporates copper and coil
losses. I am confused how this is possible unless the antenna you modelled
has no losses. Is it 100% efficient? Where am I astray on this?

Thanks!

Chip N1IR




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:34 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: am broadcast loop antennas
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:51:53 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]

Paul Giusti [VK3FPG] wrote:
>
> I have been looking with no success for some plans or constructional
> information for a broadcast band (500-1700khz) loop antenna and am
> hoping someone out there may be in a position to e- mail me some plans
> or direct me to a web resource that has this information available.
>
>   I am just beginning this aspect of the hobby and would be appreciative
> of any help anyone can offer.
>
>               Thanks in advance
>
Hi Paul,

There two good sites that I know where you can find a lot
of info on Broadcast antennas of all types:

Radio Netherland at
        http://www.rnw.nl/en/pub/

and the Nordic Shortwave center at

        http://sds.se/org/swl/

--
-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:35 1996
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From: "Dave" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (HELP ME I have fallen and can't get up.) UHF TV Antenna Stacking
Date: 21 Nov 1996 03:52:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <01bbd75e$f9abbca0$e65292cf@default>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.146.82.230
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

FIRST of all, I know this has nothing to do with radio antennas but I need
some help.

I live in the country here and TV reception stinks, especially 2-13. But
seems like uhf is
a lot better. I have saved from old TV antenna's the UHF ends. I have three
that I want to
tie together and increase the gain. But do I stack them one top of each
other or on a horz.
pole side by side? Also how would one go about tying them all together?
Would I use 300
olm wire or use a three-way splitter into a single 75 olm cable. I would
like to know these things
before I screw something up and have to do it again. I had thought about
using 300 olm and tie
the two on the outside into the center one and then a 300 balun into 75
cable. Am I far off or totally
out of the ball park? I know some of you guys or should I say a lot of you
guys know a lot more about
UHF than I do. So can you help me?
Thank you
UHF Stupid (dave)



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:36 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Verticals
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:58:33 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56be1u$[e-mail]>
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I'v have my GAP TITAN up since april of this year.  Have a real lously
location just barely over the roof of my house, the antenna sits right
over the roof airconditioner, trees almost touching the antenna but it
gets out and pulls in.  What more can I ask.  I thought I had lots of
problems with it when I first put it up but the problems turned out to be
me.  Trying to make it just a little bit better.  You've been there
before.  Any what I returned everything to the was the GAP people ment it
to be and everthing works great.  The folks at GAP were, great holding my
hand, making suggestion and offering replacement parts in my quest for
the perfect antenna.  Bottom line would I buy one again.  In a minute!
Only this time I just put it together, put it up and plug it in.
Lou KB6FFT


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:37 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:06:47 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56bbdj$[e-mail]>
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To: "Mike A. Frye" <[e-mail]>

Mike A. Frye wrote:
>
> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> writes:
> >
> >A Dipole will out perform a A99. A99 is highly overrated with
> exaurated
> >Gain figures it Basically is a Dipole mounted Vertical
>
> The A99 is an end fed half wave with a skinny piece of wire inside and
> cheap fiberglass that splinters apart in less than a year. Otherwise it
> works OK. M!Sorry to throw cold water on your theory of Antron99 antennas .
 Ive had
mine up for a little over 5 years and it works great.  Im hooked up to a
HTX100 and have been around the world on 5 and 25 watts.  Been through
wind stroms , trees banging up against it etc  still working.  You cant
beet it for the price.
Lou KB6FFT


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 07:05:59 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <570v0s$[e-mail]>
References: <56epu5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] wrote:
>In article <56epu5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
>Lewallen) writes:
>
>>send out.  We did present a paper at MilCom this year titled "Resonant
>>Frequency Prediction of the CTHA."  I can tell you that it has a nearly
>>isotropic radiation pattern, is circularly polarized, and has
>>effectively communicated with a satellite using low power.  Due to the
>>large number of parameters which govern CTHA performance it is not
>>completely optimized yet.
>
>Thanks Roy.
>
>Looks like no data is available except it's omni-directional and they
>talked to a satellite using one for an antenna.
>
>I think it's safe to conclude at this point it has no gain, but it does
>radiate. That narrows the specs down a little.
>
>73 Tom

I'd like to emphasize that the quotation above is not of my words. It's a
direct quote from Robert Craven, a representative of the company which
markets the CTHA, and was so identified in my posting. I take no
responsibility for, make any claims for, or endorse in any way the CTHA or
anyone's claims for it.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 21 Nov 1996 08:13:44 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <5712vo$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56v9oc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>>A simple dipole at the same height is about 10-12 dB better on 14 MHz if
>>you have the room .
>>
>>73 Tom
>
>A while ago, I could clearly receive a station on a loop that was
>totally buried in noise on the dipole.

Noone doubts that small loops are good for receiving. Transmitting
is the problem.

73, Moritz DL5UH




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (stop junk e-mail)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:39:40
Organization: Symbios Logic
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References: <[e-mail]> <571jie$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:118535 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31815

  I know a 1/4 does not work on both freq. but it doesn't
>need a ground plane either.  I have just operated on 2Meters only when
>I was doing it so I haven't explored dual band antennas that do not
>need ground planes.
>Ross
>N7VWx


A 1/4 wave 2m antenna works ok as a 3/4 wave 70cm antenna.
Cheap, simple dual band antenna.



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (O.B. Juan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 21 Nov 1996 10:30:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <571avu$[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Mike A. Frye wrote:
>>
>> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>> writes:
>> >
>> >A Dipole will out perform a A99. A99 is highly overrated with
>> exaurated
>> >Gain figures it Basically is a Dipole mounted Vertical
>>
>> The A99 is an end fed half wave with a skinny piece of wire inside and
>> cheap fiberglass that splinters apart in less than a year. Otherwise it
>> works OK. M!Sorry to throw cold water on your theory of Antron99 antennas .

 Ive had
>mine up for a little over 5 years and it works great.  Im hooked up to a
>HTX100 and have been around the world on 5 and 25 watts.  Been through
>wind stroms , trees banging up against it etc  still working.  You cant
>beet it for the price.
>Lou KB6FFT

Dollar for Dollar, the A99 is one of the better antenna buys.  Here in the
Savannah Georgia Area, it is the antenna used by just about eveyone on 10
meters.  I have had mine up for 3 years now, and not a minute trouble..
I recommend it highly

AE4BR
Don



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:42 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Vs. LEO Status?
Date: 21 Nov 1996 12:40:01 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56vgd7$e46$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Greg--

I know the beast surrounds 2M; just wondering about the plans for some LEO
service to gobble it up. Wondering if those plans have been abandoned or
modified.

Thanks!

Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (riot nrrrd)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: 21 Nov 1996 13:20:32 GMT
Organization: Long Island Information, Inc.  516-INTERNET
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <571kv0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rowan.liii.com
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For a number of reasons (not having the $$$ to spare for a new
antenna, not wanting to go up on the roof in freezing weather,
not having any trees at all), I'm currently trying to run with
a 40m quarter wave dipole in my front yard (the back is an
unsuitable location, and I need to desperatly clean out the attic
so that's out as well).  The antenna is made of speaker wire (!),
with a paint mixer insulator :).  Next spring, with any luck, I'll
get something up on the roof, but not this year, I don't think.


Now, to make it worse, it's about 5.5 or 6' off the ground...no higher
(since I need to b e able to set up and take it down in about 10
minutes....the XYL would kill me otherwise).

Any suggestions as to how I can get out better?  Calling CQ night
after night gets lonely!  Especially with no responses!

--
73 de Dave Weingart  KB2CWF                 "Can you find the Valium?
mailto:[e-mail]                     Can you bring it soon?
mailto:[e-mail]        Lost Johnny's out there
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux                Baying at the Moon"
                                                   -- Hawkwind

BY SENDING UNSOLICTED, COMMERCIAL SPAM EMAIL TO THIS ADDRESS, YOU HEREBY
AGREE TO RECEIVE UP TO 20 MEGABYTES OF RANDOM CORE DUMP INFORMATION.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:53:39 GMT
Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900)
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[e-mail] (Kenneth E. Harker) wrote:

>     I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
>decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.  I already have a
>dual-band FM HT, but I'm interested in hearing from others about the best
>way to accomplish the rest of the setup.
>
>     * Naturally, I'd like to be able to operate with both hands on the
>handlebars at the same time.  This means VOX.  I know that one of the
>accessories designed to work with my rig (an Alinco DJ-580T) is a headset
>with VOX.  There is also an earbud-mic accessory from Alinco that I think
>might work with my rig (and is $20 cheaper.)  Assuming that I can choose
>from either one, which is preferable?  What are people's opinions of the
>earbud-mic arrangement?

>     * What is the best way to secure my HT to the bicycle?  Ideally, it
>should be easy to attach the radio to the bike and easy to remove it.  Or
>is it easier to somehow attach it to myself or my backpack?

>     * I think a simple dual-band mobile-style antenna would probably be
>the best way to get out.  My bicycle is a mountain-bike style and I can
>easily get a
>rack to fit over my rear wheel.  Is there a mobile antenna mount that
>would easily and securely attach itself to such a rack?  Can anyone
>recommend a particular antenna/mount combination?

I have seen Ski Patrol personnel use a nylon harness rig that holds
their radios up on their chest, just below the chin.  The radio is
held in place by velcro strips.   The harness of course goes over the
sholders and crosses in the back so everything is secure.   When they
want to talk they lower their mouth down and speak.  The radio is
close enough so they can hear.  Of course they have to use their hand
to press the PTT button.    I would try to keep the radio somewhere on
you because of the vibration and jolting the radio would receive from
the frame of the bike.  YOu are a better vibration dampener that the
bike.

I do not like the little bug speaker/mic that fits into your ear.  I
have use some and it always seems it falls out or the wire going up to
it gets caught in clothing and is pulled out, or you move your head
and once again it is dislodged.  If there is a headset/boom mic
arrangement, I think it would be better.


I am lead to believe that you need an external antenna on your bike
and the rubber duck would not reach out the way you wanted.  I have
mounted a 1/4 mag mount on the bike rack that fits over the rear
wheel.  Coil up the excess coaxial cable and route the rest to the
radio.  Bad feature about this is, if you have the HT on you, then you
are attached to the bike via the coaxial cable, and you must
connect-disconnect the cable everytime you get on or off.  The good
feature is that your radio is not taking a beating from the vibrations
of the bike.  I know a 1/4 does not work on both freq. but it doesn't
need a ground plane either.  I have just operated on 2Meters only when
I was doing it so I haven't explored dual band antennas that do not
need ground planes.

Hope this gives you food for thought.

73's

Ross
N7VWx



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:45 1996
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From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:20:21 -0500
Organization: Utter Chaos
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References: <[e-mail]>
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Kenneth E. Harker wrote:
>
>      I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
> decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.  I already have a
> dual-band FM HT, but I'm interested in hearing from others about the best
> way to accomplish the rest of the setup.
>
> What are people's opinions of the
> earbud-mic arrangement?

No opinion, never used one.  When I used to do that, I used a
speaker-mic.
But I was much younger and dumber then ;)

>
>      * What is the best way to secure my HT to the bicycle?  Ideally, it
> should be easy to attach the radio to the bike and easy to remove it.  Or
> is it easier to somehow attach it to myself or my backpack?

Advantage to wearing it: lower shock.  Disadvantage: you are attached
to the antenna on bike.  I prefer to put the radio in a front pack and
secure it with judicious use of bungie cords.  I used to use an old
IC-2AT when I did this, however.  Your radio may have more densely
packed
controls on it.

A front pack with a good bungie cord suspension isn't quite as shock
proof as you are, but it ain't bad either.

Another advantage to the front pack: you can add a bigger battery
there and run higher power --even a power amp if you're really crazy.

>
>      * I think a simple dual-band mobile-style antenna would probably be
> the best way to get out.  My bicycle is a mountain-bike style and I can
> easily get a
> rack to fit over my rear wheel.

Good arrangement.  I used something very similar and it worked.

> Is there a mobile antenna mount that
> would easily and securely attach itself to such a rack?  Can anyone
> recommend a particular antenna/mount combination?

I suggest securing the antenna to the side of the rack mount strut which
goes down to the rear wheel.  You'll want to make sure your rack is
good and sturdy, of course.  You might get a better installation if you
secure a piece of steel along the side with screws and a clamp or two.
Then you can drill the steel and use a marine antenna mount.

>
>      Anything else I should keep in mind?

Yeah, make sure you can still mount the bike.  With an antenna mounted
as I have suggested, you won't be able to comfortably swing your leg
over the back to mount your back.  One way to get around this problem,
if you use the marine antenna mount, is to swivel the antenna down
before mounting the bike.  You can then swivel the antenna up after
you mount the bike (a bit of string or fishing line attached to the
antenna might help here).

Another issue:  Your bike is not a good groundplane.  You should try
to get an antenna which doesn't need much of a groundplane -- i.e. not
a 1/4 wave or 5/8 wave.  Get something like a half wave vertical.
Also make sure the thing is relatively flexible (to smash in to
branches and the like)

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:46 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!news
From: Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Van Gorden Shorty Dipole
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:46:11 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-61.ts-4.nyc.idt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit)

Anyone out there have any experience with the Van Gorden Shorty
Dipole?  They claim it operates 160-10 Meters, in a 70 foot package.

        Also, I'd like to know if it can be used as an inverted vee,
particularly, if I use it as such, what is the minimum angle I need to
use between the elements (ie. in stead of them being 180 degrees out, can
I do 110, or 90?)

        Finally, they claim that it needs a tuner.  I have the Yaesu
FT-900, with the internal tuner.  Now, I'm not saying its a bad tuner,
but I am cautious as to whether it will tune up on say 80 or 160.

Any help would be appreciated.  You can respond directly to me, ot post
it here.  Thanks --

73, Pete -KA2YDY-



"Ain't no pileup here... just little ole me trying to make sense out of
the chaos."


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:47 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-16.sprintlink.net!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:12:33 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56tn6n$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

Joe Tyburczy wrote:
> You can even get a 4:1 balun to go from the 450 ohm line to a length of coax
 so
> you can bring that in thru the window and avoid winter drafts.

Hi Joe, if you don't know what impedance the balun is seeing, this is
bad advice. According to EZNEC, a 102ft dipole has a 20:1 SWR on 75m
when fed with 450 ohm ladder line. If one hits a current loop at the
end of the feedline, the impedance is 22 ohms. A 4:1 balun will take
22 ohms down to 5 ohms, in the opposite direction of 50 ohms. If one
hits a current node at the end of the feedline, the impedance is 9000
ohms, a next to impossible impedance for most commercial baluns to
transform on 75m. In the two examples above, the balun is seeing either
5 ohms or 9000 ohms when it was designed for 200 ohms.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:48 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-16.sprintlink.net!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:26:24 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <571kv0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

riot nrrrd wrote:
> Any suggestions as to how I can get out better?  Calling CQ night
> after night gets lonely!  Especially with no responses!

1st suggestion: Since you're lonely anyway, get rid of the wife. :-)

2nd suggestion: Scrap the dipole and rig a shortened vertical, 20ft
is a convenient length, with 3-4 30ft radials and a coil in the center
or at the base. If you're wife wouldn't mind a nice flagpole, put one
up, bury the radials, and gamma feed it.

Cabela's sells a 20ft telescoping fiberglas fishing pole that makes a
nice 40m vertical.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:49 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.sojourn.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!atdbbs!clint.bradford
From: [e-mail] (Clint Bradford)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Free Ham Info Service
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:10:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: ATTENTION to Details BBS - Mira Loma, CA
Distribution: world
Lines: 76

ATTENTION to Details BBS offers the following Amateur Radio-related
files/programs via its free FTP service:

KEYWORD        DESCRIPTION
=====================================================================
MAC-HAM        List of 75+ Amateur Radio-related files for the Mac
               available on ATD BBS. TEXT

NECUTILS       Those infamous, difficult-to-locate NEC laptop setup
               utilities. ZIP

NICADS         Informative article on the care and discharge/charging
               cycles of NiCad batteries. TEXT

RFI-TELEPHONE  ARRL FAQ on how to deal with RFI and telephones. TEXT

WRC-97         As long as the threat to 2M and 440MHz continues, we
               will update this information package of texts relating
               to the "Little LEO / WRC 1997" issue. ZIP

HELP           Returns a text File with all active KeyWords. TEXT
======================================================================
  NOTE: "TEXT" = plaintext file sent to you as a return E-Mail message.
         "ZIP" = PkZIP-compressed file via UUENCODE. You will need to
                 UUDECODE and then PKUnZIP the file.
======================================================================


How to Use the FTP Server at ATTENTION to Details BBS
-----------------------------------------------------
The ATD BBS FTP Service is offered as a cost-effective means to
obtain information and files from our Bulletin Board System (BBS) -
using Internet E-Mail as the method of exchange. Using our FTP
Server is as simple as addressing an Internet E-mail message to

                           [e-mail]

containing one or more KeyWords. Multiple KeyWords can be combined
in a single Message - but it is very important that there be only
ONE KEYWORD PER LINE! Example: You see from the above list of
KeyWords that you want a copy of the article on NiCads and our ARRL
Paper on Telephone RFI. Address your Internet E-Mail...

  TO:      [e-mail]
  SUBJECT: [anything as a Subject is OK]

...and write the corresponding KeyWord, NICADS, as the ONLY word in
the FIRST LINE of your message. And write RFI-TELEPHONE on the
SECOND LINE of your message. That's all there is to it!


WHAT -IS- ATD BBS ALL ABOUT?
---------------------------
ATTENTION to Details Landline BBS specializes in Amateur Radio,
telecommunications law, online privacy issues, and related
topics. The BBS telephone number is 909-681-6221 (Riverside, CA).

Official Bulletin Station of the American Radio Relay League

Supporting BBS Member: Association of Shareware Professionals
                       Electronic Frontier Foundation
                       Educational Software Cooperative
                       Association of Shareware Professionals
                       National Computer Security Association

* ARRL File / Message Areas   * GMRS / REACT Information
* Amateur Callsign Database   * Online Legal Advisor
* Classified Ads              * JFK Assassination materials
* File Request Service        * Packet Terminal Access

ATD BBS is managed in compliance with the Association of Online
Professionals and National Computer Security Association Codes
of Professional Standards.

Clint Bradford, KE6LCS - System Operator
Voice Support [phone]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:50 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!dciteleport.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: My New Amateur Radio web page
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:26:48 -0600
Organization: Internet Tech Services
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 45.205.151.157.in-addr.arpa
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)

This is my new Amateur Radio web page...

http://linc2.lincup.com/~tstatham

Please check it out and let me know what you think.
I know it is slow, but is it worth the load time? I
would appreciate any ideas for improvement. I am new to
web page design and this is a learning experience for
me. Thanks in advance.

Tommy
N5HTQ

--
To see what the Godfather of Marketing Technology is
doing today visit http://www.enlow.com


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:51 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!cocoa.brown.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (John 015)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:04:20 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <57294g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
X-News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Hi,

I'm wondering about one thing.  In the Yagi-Uda the reflector
"works" by re-emitting the signal.  The reflected signal is in phase
with the frontal wave and out-of-phase with waves received from the
rear (which I think should mandate that is be 0.25 wavelenght and not
0.20 or some such number behind the the feeder element).

But now why is the reflector not made resonant ?

Thanks,
John


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:52 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.mcn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dan K6MHE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:07:20 GMT
Organization: Mendocino Community Network
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]> <56rbcv$[e-mail]> <56rt5p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm2-men-a23.mcn.org
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

On 19 Nov 1996 09:03:53 GMT, [e-mail]
() wrote:

>>I've used an ISOLOOP and made some good contacts with it.  I've worked
>>all over the U.S. with it, and into the Carribean.  Haven't worked any
>>serious DX with it yet at this QTH yet.  I'm an an apartment on the
>>second floor and sit it on the balcony.
>
>Hi Jonathan,
>
>Don't get me wrong, but your comment is out of place here. Everyone
>knows that you can make good contacts with a poor antenna, and
>your success only proves your good operating procedures.
>
>Exaggerated advertizing claims backed by "sucess" stories
>are really obnoxious. May be spaghetti manufacturers should boost
>their sales by founding a wet noodle award.
>
>73, Moritz DL5UH

I really don't believe any comment on the subject of antennas is out
of place in this group.  As I understand it, the news group is for the
exchange of information which can and does include opions.

73, Danny K6MHE


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:53 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.nap.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!blixen.aquilagroup.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Kevin  AstirCS "1U"   KO0B)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:36:16 -0800 (PST)
Organization: Aquila Technologies Group, Inc.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <5726u6$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: thoreau.aquilagroup.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.38

[e-mail] (Kenneth E. Harker) wrote:

>     * Naturally, I'd like to be able to operate with both hands on the
>handlebars at the same time.  This means VOX.  I know that one of the
>accessories designed to work with my rig (an Alinco DJ-580T) is a headset
>with VOX.

From my Hang-Glider mobile experience:

VOX is a real bad idea, unless you huff and puff a lot less than I do.
(also, you risk transmitting your thoughts about those oh-so-polite
motorists!)  If you can make/buy a PTT switch for the handlebars that
is one solution. If you body mount the rig, then run the PTT line down
your arm to a small switch...not really hard to hold bar w/last two
fingers  and work/hold switch with first two and thumb.

Most headsets can be disassembled to leave just a metal strip going up
from the earpiece.  This will slip nicely between the shell and foam
of a hard-shell helmet.  A little tape then keeps it from slipping
out. Dunno what you do with the foam and spandex only helmets,
however.   Buy some extra wind screen (the little foam piece) NOW, in
case they change styles and you can't get the old ones.  These are
easy to lose, and get pretty gross after a while anyway.  They are
cheap to replace, however.

I strongly recommend keeping the rig attached to your body.  Much less
likely to be stolen, and you won't have to hassle every day with
putting it on and off the bike.  Also solves problem of forgetting to
remove or unplug headset when getting off bike.  Finally, you can
finish that QSO when you get home without having to stand out front
with the bike.

If you use a bike mounted antenna, put a RCA plug or two in the coax
line, so that it just pulls apart w/o damage  when you forget to
unhook the antenna cable.

The computerized rigs are a real pain for this kind of application...I
greatly prefer my old IC-2AT easy to use w/o looking at it constantly.

ciao, KO0B



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild!n1btq
From: [e-mail] (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 20:00:51 GMT
Organization: From the home front
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <572fia$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: n1btq.tiac.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

Any opinions on the Hamstick mobile antennas?  Are these the standard 3/8"
threaded mount?  How do these compare with Hustler?

Thanks,

Tim N1BTQ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.neo.lrun.com!news
From: sshumway <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 20:01:57
Organization: Northeast Ohio Community Network -- Akron, OH, USA
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56n866$[e-mail]>  <56togr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.210.196.114
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


Hello All,

I've recently completed construction and setup of a G5RV type antenna.

My antenna has 51 foot (each) horizontal elements constructed out of some
scrap RG-58 coax (Center shorted to shield at both ends so it just looks like
a "big" wire).

My matching section is composed of home-made ladder line. I constructed the
ladder line from two piece of 12 gauge solid Cu wire. This was scavanged from
a hunk of Romex house wireing. I did leave the plastic insulation on the wire.

I was hoping to get better weather protection with the insulation left on. The

spacers for the ladder are made from some scrap Lexan that was being thrown
away at work.

At the bottom of the matching section I have 10 turns of RG-58 coax wound in a

6 inch diameter coil to keep RF off of the feed line (also RG-58).

The whole thing is suspended almost 70 feet up from a pair of tall oak trees.
The bottom of the matching section is a little less than 30 feet off the
ground.

For a tuner, I'm using a home-made T network tuner that I made several years
ago. I can get a good low SWR (usualy near 1.2 to 1) for most bands (except
for 15 meters).

All of this brings me to my purpose for the follow up post: I'm not real happy

with the on-air results. I can't get the antenna to tune up on 15 meters at
all. I've yet to make any contacts with the antenna at all. Not through a lack

of trying.

Given the somewhat limited information I've provided here, does anyone have
any ideas about what I've done wrong?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer


Steve Shumway

N8SHP

[e-mail]



>




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Stanley D Gruver)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,
Subject: FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!! Satellite Receiver
Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:16:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <572dai$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tul-ok4-16.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Nov 21 12:16:18 PM PST 1996
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31826 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1358 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21258 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118547


   Used

   Toshiba TRX 80 with VC2+      $275
   Panasonic 4500 with VC2+      $275
   VC2+ descrambler              $150

   Receiver/VC2+/new feedhorn/new 20 degree LNB/new 24" actuator/new
   7.5' Perfect Ten mesh dish      Complete System for ONLY $625

   E-mail reply please      Thanks,   Maura




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!news6.digex.net!news.gteais.com!news
From: aor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Installing CB Cophase antennas - is not hard to do.
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:28:20 -0500
Organization: gteais-org
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: r1p3.gteais.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I)

The antennas should be tuned to 50 ohms each, apart 1/4 wave (about 9
feet), fed with odd electrical lengths (not physical) of 75 ohm coax
(two equal runs).

This is very easy to do.  This will give you a better pattern to the
front and rear of the truck, assuming that they are mounted on the
mirrors.  Larger spacing will give you a more complex pattern, which may
be unwanted.  Ham radio books will have discussions on the patterns
based upon spacing and phasing.  Take a look.

Has been done for years.

Al,  NW2M


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!feed1.news.innet.be|INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!scnews.sc.intel.com!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Van Gorden Shorty Dipole
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:35:30 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

Peter and Colleen McGreevy wrote:
> Anyone out there have any experience with the Van Gorden Shorty
> Dipole?  They claim it operates 160-10 Meters, in a 70 foot package.

Hi Pete, if it's the HSD-80 which is 70ft long, it won't cover 160m.
The HSD-160 is 135ft long.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:58 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!scnews.sc.intel.com!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:43:19 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57294g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

John 015 wrote:
> But now why is the reflector not made resonant ?

Hi John, if the reflector and driven element are resonant
and close together, the antenna is bi-directional with
a 0 dB front to back ratio.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:41:59 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 21 Nov 1996 21:58:20 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
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Lou Im sure you would have had the same sucess with a Dipole


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:00 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Michael L. Ardai)
Subject: Info on calibrated antennas for measuring power density needed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utopia Planetia Shipyards - Mars
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:12:19 GMT
Lines: 19
Sender: [e-mail]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31844 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118569

I'm looking for some information on how to make a calibrated antenna
for signal strength measurements.  A Cell/PCS company is installing a
site on the building we live in with the antennas just 12 feet over the
roof (and our apartment right below the roof...) and I want to be able
to measure the field strength within the apartment once the system is
operational.  I'll be using a Tek 491 spectrum analyzer for these
measurements, but I don't have a calibrated receive antenna to make the
numbers meaningful.

Also, does anyone have any pointers to calculating near-field power
density?  They are claiming 100W ERP at 866 MHz.

Thanks for any assistance.
/mike

--
\|/      Michael L. Ardai        N1IST       [e-mail]       \|/
-*- ===  Boston Amateur Radio Club:  http://www.barc.org/barc   === -*-
/|\    or send "info barc-list" to [e-mail]     /|\


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:01 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 21 Nov 1996 22:14:25 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
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Hi Mike--

You are right and they are wrong. Much of the exagerrated loss stuff is
put on as a baiting strategy. Some of us appreciate your comments and your
effort to dig out the info.

If the AEA isoloop was 10-12 dB down from a 20M dipole --AT A REASONABLE
HEIGHT-- then they wouldn't sell any. Period.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:02 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Height of dipole?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:23:54 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd6d8$0fc884a0$[e-mail]>
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Rick Lapp wrote:
> I have a center fed zepp (120 ft) up at about 40 feet, fed with 50 feet of
> 450 ohm ladder line into a 4:1 balun.

Hi Rick, EZNEC indicates that, at least on 75m and 40m, you would be
better off with a 1:1 choke/current balun. According to EZNEC, the
impedance at the end of that 50ft of 450 ohm ladder line is
88-j64 for 75m and 45-j448 for 40m.

> It's possible for me to raise the center of the antenna up to
> about 70 feet and I was wondering if this would be worth the effort.

Guess it's up to you. On 75m it would lower your -3dB point from a
take-off-angle of 36deg to a TOA of 24deg. You may not be able to
tell the difference in your close contacts. But you probably can
detect the difference on 40m. The gain increases by 3dB and the
-3dB TOA falls from 24deg to 13deg-44deg, i.e. straight up radiation
falls off drastically. How do you like 40m DX?

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 21 Nov 1996 22:25:36 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

RE: Danny's statement

YES! This is a VOX POP and you don't need a BSEE to be heard!

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (james flanagan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: hy-gain 18hts vertical
Date: 21 Nov 1996 22:28:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <572l2h$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.5

I have used a butternut vertical for the past 10 years and it's about time to
replace it.  Has anyone used the hy-gain 18HTS vertical, and if so how would c
ompare it to the butternut???


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 21 Nov 1996 22:30:47 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Tom--

I made a little microwave 'H' antenna out of thick copper wire last night
and snuck it into the lab queue. The return loss results confirm that this
is NOT a resonant antenna within a 1/8 by 1/8 wave  area. Return loss was
less that 1 dB at that wavelength (to 50 ohms). Perhaps you mean a loaded
'H'? Any 'elp?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:05 1996
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From: Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Van Gorden Shorty Dipole
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:15:03 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> Peter and Colleen McGreevy wrote:
> > Anyone out there have any experience with the Van Gorden Shorty
> > Dipole?  They claim it operates 160-10 Meters, in a 70 foot package.
>
> Hi Pete, if it's the HSD-80 which is 70ft long, it won't cover 160m.
> The HSD-160 is 135ft long.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA




Cecil,

        Thanx fer the reply.  I dont think its either of the two you
mentioned.  They are selling it as the "Van Gorden Shorty" (160-10
w/tuner).  I saw it in the new HRO catalog (p.83).  They say its a 70
foot long antenna, which would fit my attic just fine.  I just don't know
if it would tune up well.

73 - Pete - KA2YDY


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:06 1996
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From: Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Dipole Placement
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:18:14 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 10
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Hi,

Does anyone know what the practical minimum angle is for dipole elements?
 I am trying to fit a dipole in a limited space, and will not be able to
do a "flat top" mounting.  I know that you can do an inverted vee, which
is what I am shooting for, but I wont be able to put the elements 180
degrees from each other.  Anyone know from experience etc how 110 or 90
degrees out would work?

tnx -- Pete -- KA2YDY


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:07 1996
From: [e-mail] (RECurtis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Tank Circuit for 4-1000
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:32:31 GMT
Organization: HolliCom Internet Services
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <572orr$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
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I'm looking for a tank circuit for a 4-1000 tube based amplifier.
Ideally the circuit would be resonant from 160 thru 10 meters but 75
thru 10 would be acceptable. The original circuit was manufactured by
B&W but is no longer in production.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Please reply to:

e-mail to: [e-mail]
        ATTN: Cliff KZ9E

or snail mail to:
        Clifford Clark
        Rt1 Box 242
        Wayne City, IL  62895



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:08 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Had to repair G5RV will it work OK
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:49:42 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
> The balanced line that is connected to the antenna broke off and I had to
> cut off less than two inchesto reconnect the transmission line how much of
> an effect to you think this will have. Thanks.

Considering that 2 inches is one half of one percent of a wavelength
on 10m, no effect that you can detect without expensive equipment.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:10 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help"
Date: 22 Nov 96 00:22:16 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

You may subscribe or unsubscribe to any of the various campus mailing
lists and the local redistributions of global mailing lists by sending
email to "listserv@ucsd".  The commands understood by the listserver
program are:

HELP
        lists this file.  This is also sent whenever a message to
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HELP listname
        lists a brief description of the maillist requested.

INDEX
        lists all the maillists available for subscription.

LONGINDEX
        lists all the maillists and their descriptions.

ADD listname
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ADD address listname
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        specified.  Mail is sent to the address given to confirm the
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        subscribing (i.e., use the second form of the command which
        includes a specification of the address).  If you omit the
        'address', the command will assume the mailbox that is in the
        From:  line of the message.  Note that SUBSCRIBE is a synonym
        for ADD; UNSUBSCRIBE for DELETE.

DELETE-ALL
UNSUBSCRIBE-ALL

DELETE-ALL address
UNSUBSCRIBE-ALL address
        unsubscribes given address from all mailing lists. Mail is sent
        the address given to confirm the deletions. If you omit
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LIST
LIST address
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FAQ listname
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A command must be the first word on each line in the message.  Lines
which do not start with a command word are ignored.  If no commands were
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Please note that it IS possible to add or delete someone else's
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have chosen to limit this by mailing a confirmation notification
of any addition or deletion to the address added or deleted including
a copy of the message which requested the operation.  At least you
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Examples:

        add sunusers

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        delete [e-mail] connectionists

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Note that although you would mail submissions to a campus mailing list by
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:11 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop..."
Date: 22 Nov 96 00:23:19 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Morris E Sullivan, KG5CP)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 22 Nov 96 01:00:41 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

UNSUBSCRIBE [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 01:28:40 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <572vkg$[e-mail]>
References: <57294g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx17-31.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <57294g$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (John 015) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm wondering about one thing.  In the Yagi-Uda the reflector
>"works" by re-emitting the signal.  The reflected signal is in phase
>with the frontal wave and out-of-phase with waves received from the
>rear (which I think should mandate that is be 0.25 wavelenght and not
>0.20 or some such number behind the the feeder element).
>
>But now why is the reflector not made resonant ?
>
>Thanks,
>John

I think you can get mislead by thinking of the "reflector" as something
that "reflects" signals.

Any multi-element system, whether parasitically coupled or directly fed,
operates as follows. Currents are made to flow in the various elements.
These currents create fields which reinforce each other in some directions
and cancel in others.

In the case of a Yagi, the currents in the parasitic elements are caused
entirely by mutual coupling between the elements. At least three things
will all affect the current in a parasitic element -- spacing from the
other elements, element length, and element diameter. The current in a
self-resonant element will change as the element is moved in relationship
to the other elements, as will the current on an element of any other
length. The effect that the current will have on the pattern depends on
where the element is relative to the others. So element length, diameter,
and location are all traded off to get the desired effect. A change in any
one will affect the result. This is why there are so many Yagi designs --
different choices were made for these factors. Sometimes widely different
combinations will end up giving very similar results.

So I'm afraid that any simplified view of Yagi operation, involving how
long the elements should be or where they should be located, is likely to
lead to wrong conclusions.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Dipole Placement
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 01:33:37 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <572vto$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx17-31.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know what the practical minimum angle is for dipole elements?
> I am trying to fit a dipole in a limited space, and will not be able to
>do a "flat top" mounting.  I know that you can do an inverted vee, which
>is what I am shooting for, but I wont be able to put the elements 180
>degrees from each other.  Anyone know from experience etc how 110 or 90
>degrees out would work?
>
>tnx -- Pete -- KA2YDY

Down to 90 degrees or so, the antenna will be quite well behaved. At 90
degrees, the feedpoint impedance at resonance will be somewhat lower than
at 180 degrees (around 50 ohms vs. about 70, in free space), and the
resonant frequency will be higher, necessitating lengthening the wires
some.

If you get the wires much closer than 90 degrees, the antenna will still
radiate, but the feed point impedance at resonance will be lower yet -- it
drops rapidly as the wire angle is decreased. Also, the antenna becomes
very narrowband at narrow angles. This is why angles less than 90 degrees
aren't usually recommended.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!blue.weeg.uiowa.edu!jnmeade
From: [e-mail] (J. Meade)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help Select BUD System
Date: 22 Nov 96 01:47:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Iowa
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: red.weeg.uiowa.edu

I've been following this newsgroup for a bit, and have decided to put
together a moderate BUD system which I want to use to see Deutsche
Welle.   I don't care about encoded shows, but am willing ot consider not
specing myself out of that.

So, I'm looking for a modest system.  I live in the country with good
line-of-sight.  Iowa City.  I'd like a moveable system.  I'm capable of
installing it myself.  Where I'm lost is, what components should I select?

All suggestions deeply apprecieated.
--

Jim - Farmer - Iowa City, IA,
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:16 1996
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From: [e-mail]@smtp-news2.ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: 22 Nov 1996 03:58:38 GMT
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip129-37-205-81.in.us.ibm.net
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31856 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:633 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20222 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42765 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118589 rec.radio.amateur.space:8867

In <[e-mail]>, Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> writes:
>R. A. Green wrote:
>>
>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>> >adam turner
>> >[e-mail]
>> >
>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>>
>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
>
>Tube type hand held?

  Sure, those 90 volt B batterys are getting a little long in the tooth :-(=)

                                                                Jim



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:17 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Slingshot Lines Over Trees ... Another Suggestion
Date: 22 Nov 1996 04:20:20 GMT
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <5739m4$17ec$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <56slem$[e-mail]>
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In <56slem$[e-mail]>, F. Kevin Feeney <[e-mail]>
writes:
>In article <56s4ov$[e-mail]> Chuck Forsberg,
>[e-mail] writes:
>>
>>One limitation of this technique is the need for a clear area in
>>which to unroll the twine prior to shooting.
>>
>
>A sailor friend taught me a good solution for that. I use the same 170
>pound test twine and I unroll it into a bucket. I take the end of the
>line and tie it to the bucket handle. Then I unspool the twine into the
>bucket. When you get more than enough in the bucket to go to the top of
>the tree and back to the ground and then some, cut it and attach to the
>arrow (I duct tape some carriage bolts to mine for weight).
>
>You'd think the line in the bucket would get all tangled, but it doesn't,
>it spools out fast and free. When you retrieve the arrow, just pull it
>towards you and drop the line in the bucket as it comes your way and
>shoot again.
>
>Sure, after a day of shooting lines over trees eventually you get a
>tangle. Cut it loose, throw it away, and start over with more line. This
>has worked very well for me for about 10 years.
>
>BTW, how does the compound bow work when you don't want to fire a full
>strength shot? I use a recurve bow of about 45 pounds pull. I can
>modulate the strength of the shot very easily by how far back I pull the
>arrow. I can do a full power shot for those 85 foot elms, or 'bloop' a
>line over a 15 foot sapling. With my compound, I pretty much have to pull
>it back to the let off point, which with my 70 lb bow, is more than I
>dare shoot upwards.
>
>A cautionary note note for beginners - an arrow, especially a heavy
>arrow, can be lethal, even when it has a blunt tip. Only use these
>techniques when you can be sure that no one is downrange who could be
>hurt.
>
>Also, be very careful that the line can pay out cleanly, no matter what
>method you use. One of the reasons I went to the bucket method originally
>was because I had several experiences when the arrow was launched from
>the bow fine, but the line hung up on weeds or whatever on the ground.
>That line can be very strong, and it's somewhat elastic. The upshot was I
>launched more than one arrow, only to have it foul the line, halt, and
>then return to me at nearly full velocity as the stretched line pulled it
>back! Yeow! That was more excitement than I needed. I've only had the
>line pay out properly off of very well manicured lawn or the recommended
>bucket method.
>
>Of course your milage may vary. But I can heartily recommend the bucket
>as a way of organizing the line and letting it pay out cleanly.
>
>73 de Kevin, WB2EMS
>"When I was a child, Mommy told me not to talk to strangers. Now that I'm
>a ham, it's my hobby!"


   Couldn't find the original post. I use a 'fishing pole'. No, I can't cast t
hat far!  I
use my compound bow (a 90 pounder), a fibreglass carp arrow (very heavy) and
about 12 lb test Stren fishing line.  The bow is set for bow fishing with a lo
t
heavier line. Just use lighter weight line and zing, it's over the tree. then
I tie the
actual nylon twine I plan to use on the business end and use the reel to pull
it
back to the firing point. You definitely want to make sure your clear down ran
ge.
You could accomplish the same thing with a regular bow, by getting the fishing
line right off the reel without the drag of the pole eyelets.

                                                        Jim




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:18 1996
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From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Installing CB Cophase antennas - is not hard to do.
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:53:40 -0500
Lines: 34
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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> The antennas should be tuned to 50 ohms each, apart 1/4 wave (about 9
> feet), fed with odd electrical lengths (not physical) of 75 ohm coax
> (two equal runs).
> This is very easy to do.  This will give you a better pattern to the
> front and rear of the truck, assuming that they are mounted on the
> mirrors.  Larger spacing will give you a more complex pattern, which may
> be unwanted.  Ham radio books will have discussions on the patterns
> based upon spacing and phasing.  Take a look.
> Has been done for years.
> Al,  NW2M

"9" feet??? There is just one problem with that. Even the biggest truck
[18 wheeler] is not that wide at the mirrors... Not to mention the DOT
would really have a fit on the oversize width...

This may be fine for theory, but the typical mini truck is barely 6'
mirror to mirror. The narrower distance just changes the radiated
pattern to favor a more "8" shaped [front to back] of rf....

If you can't get at least 4' between antennas' don't even waste your
time.... I have seen the cowboy pick-up with 2 antennas mounted on the
bed mounted tool box, an they won't work any better than 1 well set-up
102" whip.... The fact of the matter is: the 102" SS whip is very hard
to beat... The worst efficiency of antenna is the so called 10kw -
chrome plated coil antenna with the 3" x 5" coil... Also the antennas
with the oil cooling built in doesn't do any better than ones without.
Just gimicks, like the see-me good buddy lights, that glow when you talk.

Later De Tom

73'




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:19 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Helene Maxwell)
Subject: tried that 2M old TV antenna beam out?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 05:55:11 GMT
Lines: 7
Sender: [e-mail]

Has anyone built and measured the effectiveness of the 2 meter antenna
out of an old TV antenna discussed in the recent issue of QST?
I'm about to do this and am wondering if you've come up with any
improvements to the design (I'm not planning to do the hairpin)

--
                                             [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:20 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: Douglas Gavilanes <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help Select BUD System
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:10:08 -0800
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: "J. Meade" <[e-mail]>

J. Meade wrote:
>
> I've been following this newsgroup for a bit, and have decided to put
> together a moderate BUD system which I want to use to see Deutsche
> Welle.   I don't care about encoded shows, but am willing ot consider not
> specing myself out of that.
>
> So, I'm looking for a modest system.  I live in the country with good
> line-of-sight.  Iowa City.  I'd like a moveable system.  I'm capable of
> installing it myself.  Where I'm lost is, what components should I select?
>
> All suggestions deeply apprecieated.
> --
>
> Jim - Farmer - Iowa City, IA,
> [e-mail]


This posting really belongs in the rec.video.satellite.tvro newsgroup,
but since you asked, here's my recs, for what they're worth...

Get a 10' mesh dish - it has plenty of gain, and will eliminate any snow
(sat folks call it "sparklies" - no old TV folks there...) that you might
have to endure with a 7.5' BUD. Try to get a horizon-to-horizon mount, in
case you can see the full satellite arc from your location - it's lots of
fun to find new DX signals in birds not meant for U.S. consumption.  From
your location, you should get a few Atlantic birds with South American
and European traffic.  It's worth the extra $200 or so the h-to-h mount
will set you back.  If you can afford it, get a C/Ku setup (dual LNBs,
feedhorn), because there's more than dealer say on the Ku side.  They
just don't know, so they pass Ku off as a sports backhaul service only.
Very wrong!  Any good IRD (integrated receiver / decoder) will serve your
purpose - you might come across a General Instruments 450i or
550i (current models0 for as little as $150.  Add a $100 VCRS module from
one of the programming clearinghouses like NPS or Turner, and you're
up-and-running.  I have seen used systems, complete, for as little as
$500.  don't do like I and many others did, and have a dealer sink a
$2,500 system that you could have shopped around for about $1200 new, or
$600 used.  And beware - many dealers install your dish and sell you a
3-year extended service policy, and then go out-of-business six months
down the road, leaving you with a worthless service contract.  They'll
open up again a few weeks or days later, under "new management", and of
course they're not responsible for the "previous business'" contracts.
Be a careful shopper, and watch the newgroups (including
alt.satellite.tv.forsale, and you'll find the deal that you want. In the
worst of cases, your installation will need a pro to come out and
fine-tune the dish, but you shouldn't pay more than $150 for such
service.

Good luck.

Doug Gavilanes, N6XQY
Garden Grove, California




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rob Tyrer   (RSA) JHB)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.uk,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: FS.  Portable Antenna Analyzer,   7 - 510MHz SWR direct
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:38:43 GMT
Organization: RTE
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <57471j$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net alt.radio.uk:9322 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31855 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42764 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118588

I have a portable Antenna Analyzer for sale.
It is a portable unit run from NiCad batteries with charger. It uses a LCD 4
digit frequency counter, an analogue SWR / %reflected power scales read direct
.
No radio Tansmitter needed. It sees exactly what the radio sees.
Only R2200-00. Still under guarantee. Used only once.
Ideal for the antenna experimenter.

Call Rob @ [phone]              [phone]
or Email [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Gerald Lopez)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 09:03:58 GMT
Organization: DESY
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I just wanted to mention the setup of a bicycle mobile I know here in
Hamburg. He is active on 10 metres using a CB-style transceiver mounted
in a cushioned bracket on the handlebars. He has a quarter wave vertical
mounted on a copper ground plane which is in turn bolted to a rear carrier.
If he stops to transmit he normally connects his ground plane to metal
railings to get a good ground connection. He used to work with 6 volt
motorcyle batteries but now tows a small trailer behind the bike with an
auto battery onboard.  Seems to work very well - he's made some fine
dx contacts with this setup but only while parked.

                gerry - [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Wolfgang Gellerich)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for book "Loop Antenna Design..."
Date: 22 Nov 1996 09:24:53 GMT
Organization: Informatik, Uni Stuttgart, Germany
Lines: 13
Sender: gelleric@kafka (Wolfgang Gellerich)
Distribution: world
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The ARRL Antenna Book cites some articles collected in the following
book:

M.G. Knitter (ed.): Loop Antenna Design and Theory, National Radio
Club, Cambridge, WI, 1983

Does anyone know how to obtain a copy of this book? I did not find it
even in the databases of some internet-bookshops.

mni tnx & vy 73,

  Wolfgang DJ3TZ


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:24 1996
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From: [e-mail] (RAYMOND K WEBB)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 22 Nov 96 09:58:06 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 1
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:25 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop... (4 msgs)"
Date: 22 Nov 96 10:24:07 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!blv-pm101-ip29.halcyon.com!user
From: [e-mail] (David Kay)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: For Sale:  TS-870 Station
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 02:26:04 -0800
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm101-ip29.halcyon.com

     I'm getting out of HF.  This station is about one year old.
Equipment is like new - perfect appearance, function and rarely used
(really!). Got S-9 from Japan 2 or 3 times.  All this equipment comes in
it's original boxes and protection (excepting R-7).


                             New Price       Full Station

Kennwood TS-870              $2,299.95
         SP-31 Speaker          $99.95     Perfect match for 870 in size, styl
e.
         MC-60 Mike            $139.95

MFJ-949-E Tuner & Dummy Load   $149.95     Works well!

Palomar M-840 LCD SWR Meter   ~$175.00     Lew McCoy Recommends! Makes
tuneup easy.

Bencher  BY -1 Iambic Black     $79.95     Never used for QSO
         RJ-1  Hand Key Black   $74.95     Never used for QSO
         YA-1  Lo Pass Filter   $59.95

Cushcraft R-7 Vertical         $379.95

Plus all in shack cables          0.00

                             $3,459.60          $2,750


     Yes, I have integrity.  Please contact Dave Kay, AB7FV at

                              [e-mail]

                           or [phone]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:27 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 22 Nov 1996 12:01:41 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 57
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References: <[e-mail]>
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Hi Chip,

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>The 'H' antenna you describe sounds like an antenna I modelled in Sept.
>Its a dipole (center fed) with length 1/8 wave with end 'caps' each 1/8
>wave, center attached. In other words, an end-capped dipole, as I alluded
>to as a possibility for you to try.  At 14 MHz, with copper losses, wire
>width 0.002 waves, I actually get slightly higher FS, about 1.8dBi
>broadside. However, this is STILL NOT a -resonant--antenna at the
>frequency corresponding to the 1/8 wave dimensions. It needs additional
>loading, presumably coils, to get it to resonance. Indeed, the presence
of
>additional loads degrades the FS by at least 1/2 dBi at this HF
frequency;
>substantially more at microwave. Also, the width is pretty big for the
>wire, and thinner wire might apply better, with worse results.

If you make the end wires thick compared to the radiating wire, something
very practical to do, the antenna can be made resonant.

>Another possibility, a variation on the 'H',  is to try a 'z' where the
>diagonal is center feed and the loading is, well, the other parts of a
>'z'.

Wastes power by radiation from the end loading.

>Do you have a candidate for a resonant antenna --sans discrete loads--
>inside the box?

What box?

>As for the loop, again most intriguing. Please give the geometry (quad?)
>and placement of coils. Would also help if you tried a couple of cases
>with coils of Q 150 or so. Bandwidth also very much needed for
>understanding.

A coil at each corner with thick side wires. Q of 150 is pretty low, I
used 300.

>Finally on the issue of bandwidth. Let's agree again that it's the FS
that
>counts, not the rad resistance, for gain performance comparison. But do
>you disagree with this statement: a folded dipole has greater bandwidth
>than a 'regular' one (both 1/2 wave largest dimension)--and both have
>about the same FS?

Yes I disagree. It is the thickness that primarily affects BW, and if the
regular dipole and folded dipole are the same thickness, BW will be about
the same.

Can't compare apples to pears. If you have a two inch wire spaced FD, I
get to use a pair of two inch spaced wires in my regular dipole.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:29 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 22 Nov 1996 12:01:43 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Mike Valentine
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>As for "swallowing" my own observations, how do you propose that I avoid
>empiricism?  I have made more microwave antenna gain measurements than I
>can remember.  Can I be fooled to the tune of a few dB?  It has
>happened.  10-12 dB?  I can't ever recall a time that I was that far
>off.  What was your test setup and which loop did you test?
>
>Mike - W8MM

Phew, go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose, hi.

The AEA loop I had was anodized wire brushed aluminum.

It was mounted 35 feet above ground horiz, and measured with another sense
antenna about 75 feet away moved up and down a tower. The reference
antenna was a dipole in the same location as the loop.

Some day when you get a chance, make a small pick up coil and measure the
current distribution in a wide flat conductor at RF. You'll see how much
conductor area the flat conductor in the AEA loop really has.

Then wire brush it crosswise, make the surface rough, and then anodize it.

If anyone thinks ten dB would stop sales of an antenna....think again.
T2FD dipoles, ground-less verticals, the new traveling wave vertical, and
dozens of other antennas would disappear.

Seriously now, without an A-B test no one would notice the difference, nor
the temperature rise of 130 watts spread out over ~5 sq foot of area in
free air circulation.

In on the air tests, with a dipole at 50 ft and the AEA loop at 50 ft,
dozens of stations I worked said the signal was exactly equal from the
loop and the broadside dipole (when I ran 8 watts in the dipole and 100 in
the loop).

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:30 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LOOP ARRAY
Date: 22 Nov 1996 12:01:45 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56v2c4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <56v2c4$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Dudley Chapman) writes:

>Roy,
>    The effect of element tuning on the phasing could be an advantage
>in that one could make small adjustments to the tuning and change the
>pattern.  You could steer a null, or maximize f/b, or gain.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Dudley

But the drift would drive you insane in the membrane. I use UNtuned loops
for receiving .

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David P. Fraleigh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tower
Date: 22 Nov 1996 12:30:37 GMT
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <5746dd$[e-mail]>
References: <56n6mh$[e-mail]> <56niv0$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I took down a 45 foot antenna recently...  I really didn't know what I was
doing and am pretty scared of heights but luckily I pulled it off..
Essentially I made a gadget (12 foot pipe with a pulley welded to the
top and with an attaching braket at the bottom).  I would attach the pipe
to the section below the ten foot section that I was attempting  to remove
and using a rope attached to the top of the section that I wanted to
remove I would lift it off (from the ground via a rope) and then lower it
to the ground..  A couple of times I just couldn't pull the sections apart
so I went up there with an auto scissors jack and forced them apart...
All in all it was a pretty frightening experience and, like I said, I
didn't know what I was doing so there is probably a better way..  BTW I
did use a tree climbers harness that I strapped myself securely to the
tower with...  Nonetheless those first times of letting go of the tower
with my hands made my heart race quite a bit...



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (DAVID P. LOEWEN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need Ham Test in Salem, Or area
Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:03:06 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5748aa$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linda.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Hi,

I'm interested in taking the necessary tests to become a
licesnsed Amateur Operator, and was wondering who to contact
in my area (Salem, Oregon) to do this.   I have been studying
for some time, and am ready for the No-Code Technician-class
exam.  So far, I have been unable to find anyone who can do
this locally.   Any info or advice would be much appreciated.
Thank you.


David P. Loewen
Salem, Or  USA
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:32 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:05:07 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <572fia$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On Thu, 21 Nov 96 20:00:51 GMT, [e-mail] (Tim Smith) wrote:

>Any opinions on the Hamstick mobile antennas?  Are these the standard 3/8"
>threaded mount?  How do these compare with Hustler?
>
Hi Tim, on 75 meters the Hamstick: -10db  compared to Bugcatcher,
-7db screwdriver, -5 to a Hustler.  In my opinion, the "screwdriver"
t;ype is a excellent multi band compromise.
73, Jesse, W6KKT




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:33 1996
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From: WB4YUC
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 22 Nov 1996 05:12:51 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <5748sj$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: webgate3.mot.com

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
says...
>
>Hi Mike--
>
>You are right and they are wrong. Much of the exagerrated loss stuff is
>put on as a baiting strategy. Some of us appreciate your comments and your
>effort to dig out the info.
>
>If the AEA isoloop was 10-12 dB down from a 20M dipole --AT A REASONABLE
>HEIGHT-- then they wouldn't sell any. Period.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

Guess you don't remember the Maxcom Antenna Matcher then.......

It was just a dummy load onto which you hung non-resonant wires.

73,

Bruce WB4YUC


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:34 1996
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From: Stephen John Farthing <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:55:28 +0000
Organization: Ministry of Administrative Affairs
Lines: 78
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <56v3d5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevef.demon.co.uk
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Dudley,

The issue of Sprat is number 76, the design by GD3HQR. Sprat is
available from the G-QRP Club which is run by g3rjv whose EMail address
is [e-mail].

In the spirit of amateur radio here are some details of the design:-


1. Get a 3" wide 36"long length of aluminium and bend it into an
irregular pentagon with the following dimensioned sides :-

5" Base, 6.5", 9", 9" 6.5".

2. Get a Tinned Veg can, open it, eat contents, open other end, throw
ends away. ie a 4"" diameter by 4.5" tin tube is required.

3. Get an 11" diameter tin oven plate and cut a 3" diameter hole in the
centre.

4. Get an insulated mounting block(IMB) (wood?) 3" diameter, 6"" tall.

5. Push the IMB through the hole in the tin plate.

6. Mount the pentagon on top of the IMB so that the 5" side sits on the
IMB.

7. Make an L shape out of some insulated material. Use this  to mount
the tin tube vertically above the base of the pentagon. The base of the
tin tube needs to be 3" above the tin plate.

8. Get some co-ax, connect the inner to the tin tube and plate, the
outer to the pentagon.

9. Make the phasing unit.

        Get a t200-2 core, wind 7 turns bifilar on it, to make a
transformer.

        Get 2 360 ohm air spaced variables and a 50 ohm 20W resistor.


        Connect up as follows


        Connect one primary and one secondary across one air spaced  cap
stator.

        Connect the remaining primary and secondary across the second
cap stator.

        The signal path is through the first cap / primary and out the
cap/secondary side to the ant.

        The earth path is via the 50 ohm resistor into the second cap/
secondary , the output is not earthed ans goes out the second cap/
primary.

10. The designer used an L match between the rig and the phaser.

11. If the above is totally confusing I'll see if I can get the original
article posted on a web site. It has a proper set of diagrams. My ASCII
artistic talents are zilch.

The article claims low SWR , workable on 1.8, 3.5 and good results on 7
Mhz plus. GD3HQR lives on the Isle of Man and has worked G8PG using QRP
50 miles away on 40 using said ant.







--
Stephen John Farthing MBCS G0XAR
Melksham, Wiltshire UK
RSGB G-QRP 7766


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:35 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: listening to shortwave
Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:34:15 GMT
Organization: PressEnter
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <574h5n$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dadoram.pressenter.com

Hi,

I have a question about an in door antenna for short wave listening.  I
just have a long wire traveling around my apartment along the sealing.  It
is a 22 gage shielded wire and is being held up there by rapping it around
a few nails.

I am using a dx 390 and also have a dx 440.  I also have one of them Radio
shack DSP units.  Could anyone recommend a better dsp or better yet is there
any software for ibm dos that will use your sound card as a dsp?

My question what can I do different to get better reception?

this wire is about

30 by 12 by 10 by 8 by 5

I know this is probably not necessary, but here is roughly what it looks
like.





             |------
             |
             |
             |
             |
             |
             |
|------------|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|------------------------------


Thanks for any assistance.

I would like to thank all those who responded to my previous question about
scanner antennas.  The info was very helpful.


                                 James Ruby
                           [e-mail]
                     http://www.pressenter.com/~jruby/



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:36 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:26:45 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56n866$[e-mail]>  <56togr$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
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sshumway wrote:
> Given the somewhat limited information I've provided here, does anyone have
> any ideas about what I've done wrong?

Hi Steve, measure your SWR on the antenna side of the tuner and I
believe you will answer your own question. A tuner does not change
the SWR on the feedline. You didn't say how long the RG-58 section
is. Sometimes adding or subtracting a few feet of coax will transform
the impedance to something the tuner can handle. When one runs a
relatively high SWR on the coax, it acts like a series section
transformer. EZNEC sez you're running an SWR of 8:1 on the coax. That
means your tuner could be seeing 6.25 ohms.

IMO, it is worthwhile for everyone building or matching all-band HF
antennas to learn the fundamentals of the Smith chart. The fundamentals
are not all that hard to learn. Learning how to normalize impedances,
plot them, and draw SWR circles is all that is needed.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:37 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Had to repair G5RV will it work OK
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:42:39 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Thomas W. Castle wrote:
> Tuning the antennas was acomplished by trimming the balanced feed, not
> the flattop... So by shortenning the feed line a little you just moved
> the resonant/low SWR spot of the antenna from ??? to ??? ...

Hi Tom, EZNEC sez cutting off 0.2 ft of 300 ohm line moves the
resonant frequency by 10 KHz on 20m. I consider that to be
neglible but, of course, some might consider that to be important.
Since I resonate my antenna system with a parallel variable cap,
I wouldn't even notice the change in "resonant" frequency.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:38 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help select bud system (2 msgs)"
Date: 22 Nov 96 17:18:49 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "select" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:40 1996
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From: Charles J Purdy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Cubical Quad or stacked Yagis ??
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:19:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <574n89$[e-mail]>
References: <1.5.4.16.19961115190148.1e275614@gateway>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dfw-tx9-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Nov 22  9:18:01 AM PST 1996
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In article <1.5.4.16.19961115190148.1e275614@gateway>,
        [e-mail] (Francesco Bandini) wrote:

>Hello people of Antenna's enthusiast!
>My question is simple: wich of the following setup will give me the best
>performances for DX ?
>
>1) A five-band TWO elements Quad (14-18-21-24-28 Mhz), for example the PKW
>   Classic 2E/special, with fixed spacing between elements of 2.4 mt
>
>2) A KLM KT34-XA (six elements for 14-21-28) and a Cushcraft A3WS (three
els.
>   for 18-24) stacked 3 mt. above on the same mast
>
>The beam (or beams) will be installed on a tower about 19 meters height.
>
>In addiction: can somebody suggest to me wich could be the best antenna
>configuration (for five band DX-ing) on a single tower? The limits are my
>rotor, a G1000 SDX Yaesu and the type of the tower, with lateral ascending
cage.
>
>                      Mni tnx in advance, Francis IK5XWA from Firenze
>

 For all round conditions, my suggestion is the quad.  Been a ham for 40
years and have used them all.  Had stations in Japan, Guam, U.S., in all
enviornments and weather and a GOOD Quad will give you the greatest number
of contacts for DX.

73's

K5LAU
<[e-mail]>



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:41 1996
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From: Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HF antenna suggestions needed
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:58:55 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Hi all...

I have been wrestling with this problem for two weeks, here it is:

1- I need a small/compact/somewhat stealthy antenna, be it a vertical or
trapped dipole/G5RV arrangement.
2- My Bandwidth requirements are 80-10 (with 160 being a VERY nice
feature).
3- If it is a vertical, I can not have substantial ground radials.  Any
"self supporting" (ie. aluminum rod type) radials are fine, but no wire
that needs to be tacked down somewhere.
4- If it is a dipole, I want to mount it IN my attic. Its dimensions are
as follows: 40'long, 28'wide and 4'high.  I can use a "Horizontally
Mounted Inverted Vee" (as in, lay the Inverted Vee down across the attic
floor with its center point at the midpoint of the 38' side of the attic
and the 2 elements going to the diagonally opposite sides of the attic,
90 degrees between elements) to "fit" in a dipole of up to 70' (two 35
foot elements) using the inside of the eves of the roof.

So, thats the problem and parameters.  Currently, I am using a 1/2 size
G5RV, which works 40-10M just fine with the tuner in my Yaesu FT-900.  It
is in the attic, mounted in the aformentioned "Horizontal Inverted Vee"
position, with the center of the antenna tacked to the middle of the 38'
side of my attic.  It gets out quite well, seriously, no complaints,
except that when I get home from work, all those AM broadcasters are
killing 40M, and I like to work the low bands.

Okay, that's all.  I know its a tall order, but if anyone could suggest
any manufacturer's antennas, (kits included), brands, models, etc., I
would be very appreciative.  Performance reports and ANY suggestions
would also be nice.

Thanx -- Pete -- KA2YDY --

(PS- the whole "in attic" idea is to keep those pesky neighbors at bay.)


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:42 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: <none>
Date: 22 Nov 96 18:34:18 GMT
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Originator: [e-mail]

subscribe ham-ant



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:43 1996
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From: "Jory McIntosh, KB5UBS" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Delta loops for hf
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:36:07 -0800
Organization: Tandy Corporation
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Does anyone have the formulas to compute the lengths of each length of
wire for a delta loop?   I hear that they are pretty good antennas esp
for the low bands.  Thanks for you help.

73
Jory McIntosh
KB5UBS


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:44 1996
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From: "Larry Gagnon" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Height of dipole?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:46:48 GMT
Organization: Ampolex (USA), Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <01bbd8ad$ed1f1680$75a9f7ce@lgg>
References: <01bbd6d8$0fc884a0$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155



Rick Lapp <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<01bbd6d8$0fc884a0$[e-mail]>...
> I have a center fed zepp (120 ft) up at about 40 feet, fed with 50 feet
of
> 450 ohm ladder line into a 4:1 balun.  The antenna, tuned with a tuner
> seems to work well on all bands.  It's possible for me to raise the
center
> of the antenna up to about 70 feet and I was wondering if this would be
> worth the effort.  An experienced friend suggested that since most of my
> operation is on 75 and 80 and not DX, that this increased height will
> actually degrade my signal.  Any comments?
Any dipole should be AT LEAST a half wavelength above ground, the higher
the usually the better, especially on 80.



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:44 1996
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From: "Larry Gagnon" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160m Antenna?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:51:12 GMT
Organization: Ampolex (USA), Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <01bbd8ae$8ac07b40$75a9f7ce@lgg>
References: <56q00k$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.247.169.117
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155



Brian Short <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<56q00k$[e-mail]>...
> I have a 40 acre ranch in East-Central Arizona, so space is no problem.
> Not living there presently, I have no towers there and there are no high
> trees...
>
> How do I put up an EFFECTIVE 160m antenna?
>
> Obviously I can install full-size elevated radials, but what do I use
> for a vertical radiating element?
Go for a homebrew vertical...aluminum, decreasing OD as you go up and as
high as possible with radials and ground mounted, with non-conductive guys.
You'll work a lot of 160 DX with that.



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:45 1996
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From: "Xavier Pedrerol" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna design software
Date: 22 Nov 1996 20:20:36 GMT
Organization: C.T.V.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <01bbd8b2$47b2d060$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd1a5$0b2984e0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56qd77$[e-mail]>
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Thanks all for replying.
For your information you can get one program at Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page:
http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri (NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows)

73s



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:46 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF antenna suggestions needed
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:26:50 -0800
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Peter and Colleen McGreevy wrote:
> Okay, that's all.  I know its a tall order...

Hi Pete, if it were me, I would try adding large diameter coils to
each end of your existing antenna. These coils would have a large
effect on the lower frequencies and a smaller effect on the higher
frequencies. I would be tempted to wind #12-16 insulated house wire
on Quaker Oatmeal boxes as a test of the effectiveness of the idea.

73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:47 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 22 Nov 1996 21:38:48 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Hi Tom--

Pse explain: you say isoloop was 10-12 dB down BUT signal reports
consistently were equivalent. Your implication was: 1) the QSO'er couldn't
notice a 10dB difference; 2) they were lying to you; 3) a combination of
both.

How did you manage to select these hams who had this remarkable ability?
That's quite amazing. And here's a related question: ask yourself if its
possible to notice a 10dB difference when someone kicks on a linear
amplifier. Say, they start at a S-3 level; then say an S-9 level.

My experience is that on the air,  hams tend to exagerrate DIFFERENCES,
not equilibrate them.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:49 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Dipole Placement
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:52:24 GMT
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On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:18:14 -0800, Peter and Colleen McGreevy
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>Does anyone know what the practical minimum angle is for dipole elements?
> I am trying to fit a dipole in a limited space, and will not be able to
>do a "flat top" mounting.  I know that you can do an inverted vee, which
>is what I am shooting for, but I wont be able to put the elements 180
>degrees from each other.  Anyone know from experience etc how 110 or 90
>degrees out would work?

Dipoles work well(!) with apex angles of 90 degrees or greater.  This
info has been published for years, but  I saw it in action a while
back.  I local put up his dipole and had an apex angle of probably 70
degrees or less (he had a really small lot).  The SWR on the dipole
was quite high and it was almost impossible to 'tune' by cutting leg
lengths.

We finally managed to contrive the dipole into a 90 degree apex
configuration and it worked like a champ!  He did, however, have to
add back several FEET of wire to the ends of his elements.... Hehehe!

I'm presently using a dipole, in inverted-V fashion, which is probably
pretty close to 90 degrees at its apex.  The center of the dipole is
at 72' (from a crank-up tower) with the ends drooping to about 30' or
so off the ground, a necessity for my particular installation.  It
works very well and I have no plans to straighten it out.  I also have
a self-tenstioning system built so that the dipole remains extended
even when the crank-up tower is retracted from 72' to 22' during bad
WX.

73 - Tom Hammond     [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tower
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:52:28 GMT
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On 22 Nov 1996 12:30:37 GMT, [e-mail] (David P. Fraleigh) wrote:

>I took down a 45 foot antenna recently...  I really didn't know what I was
>doing and am pretty scared of heights but luckily I pulled it off..
>Essentially I made a gadget (12 foot pipe with a pulley welded to the
>top and with an attaching braket at the bottom).  I would attach the pipe
>to the section below the ten foot section that I was attempting  to remove
>and using a rope attached to the top of the section that I wanted to
>remove I would lift it off (from the ground via a rope) and then lower it
>to the ground..  A couple of times I just couldn't pull the sections apart
>so I went up there with an auto scissors jack and forced them apart...
>All in all it was a pretty frightening experience and, like I said, I
>didn't know what I was doing so there is probably a better way..  BTW I
>did use a tree climbers harness that I strapped myself securely to the
>tower with...  Nonetheless those first times of letting go of the tower
>with my hands made my heart race quite a bit...

Ah yes... I recall my first tower climb, about 33 years ago, scared
spitless!  The higher I climbed, the tighter the tower 'pulled' me to
it.  I now refer to this effect as 'tower magnetism'.

Regarding your problem with stuck tower sections.  If this was a
3-legged, tubular-legged, tower, NEXT time you might want to try this
(saw it in QST many years ago)...

Purchase three (no, buy 4, one for a spare) worm-geared radiator hose
clamps of a diameter which will fit around the tower leg and give you
about 1/4"-1/2" spare overlapping strap to work with.

When you encounter a balky tower section, slip one of the clamps on
each tower leg, just BELOW the bottom of the upper section.  Snug them
up so they can be moved, but they're not loose.

Usually at least one of the tower legs will be capable of being moved
by pushing on that leg and tilting the tower on its other two legs
away from the side you're pushing on.  Raise that tower leg as much as
you can by pushing/tilting the tower away from that leg, and then
slide the hose clamp up the leg utnil is seats snuggly right beneath
the bottom of the upper section.. and tighten that clamp securely.
It's easier to use a socket wrench or a hand-held nut driver than it
is to use a screwdriver for tightening the clamps.

Repeat the above operation on each of the remaining tower legs,
'walking' the tower upward with each successive adjustment of the
clamps.

The reason I like this method is that it does not distort the tower
rungs as can easily be done by using a 'jack'.  Additionally, if you
bend one or more rungs, this tends to force the ends of the tower legs
together, thus tightening their hold on the lower section, just the
opposite of the desired effect.  Furthermore, I don't want to have to
horse around a heavy jack when I'm on a tower, trying tto keep track
of which foot's ON a step and which one is not.

Keep climbing... the effects of 'tower magnetism' tend to wear off
after a while, BUT, never become too complacent... the ground hurts
when you hit it!

73 - Tom Hammond   [e-mail]







From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:51 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Height of dipole?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:52:33 GMT
Organization: SOCKET Internet Services INN Site
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

On 22 Nov 1996 19:46:48 GMT, "Larry Gagnon" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>Rick Lapp <[e-mail]> wrote

>> I have a center fed zepp (120 ft) up at about 40 feet, fed with 50 feet
>>of  450 ohm ladder line into a 4:1 balun.  The antenna, tuned with a tuner
>>seems to work well on all bands.  It's possible for me to raise the
>>center  of the antenna up to about 70 feet and I was wondering if this would
 be
>> worth the effort.  An experienced friend suggested that since most of my
>>operation is on 75 and 80 and not DX, that this increased height will
>>actually degrade my signal.  Any comments?

>Any dipole should be AT LEAST a half wavelength above ground, the higher
>the usually the better, especially on 80.

It depends upon where you want to work...

Recent published articles tend to support the theory that, for local
communications (those within several hundred miles of your QTH), a
LOWER dipole height can work substantially better than one which
places the dipole as high as possible.  This is because low dipoles
tend to exhibit a significantly higher angle of radiation which allows
more of the radiated signal to fall closer to 'home' than that which
would come from elevated dipoles.

Dipoles up 1/2-wavelength or more work well, but out at greater
distances, and not as well in close where some communications are
desired.  If you need to work more distant stations, then try to get
the CENTER of the dipole up as high as possible, and allow the ends to
droop if they must, but don't let them droop to form less than a
90-degree angle at the feedpoint (apex) of the dipole.  For the most
part, a dipole has its maximum radiation field from the center
feedpoint to about halfway out to each end of the elements, and the
ends of the elements are used (mostly) for tuning (resonating) the
antenna to frequency.  So, the important part is to get the center of
the dipole as high as you can and let the ends fall where the may.. as
long as they don't form less that a 90-degree angle at the apex.

Of course, if you could get a dipole up so high that it 'looked' down
on everyone, then it wouldn't matter about high- or low-angle
radiation because the sucker would radiate directly TO all other
stations.

Good luck ES 73,

Tom Hamond   [e-mail]






From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:52 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 23:26:29 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 52
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <575cr5$[e-mail]>
References: <571kv0$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (riot nrrrd) wrote:

> (my) antenna is made of speaker wire (!) with a paint mixer insulator.

EXCELLENT! See? You've got the true HAM SPIRIT! Scrounge, improvise, and
experiment! Do you think the spark-gap dudes of the teens and 20's just
went out and bought ready-built G5RV's from Van Gorden Engineering? No
way! They slapped together aerials out of bedsprings, chewing gum, and
frozen cow poop. For them, every day was Field Day. I think that
home-built antennas should be awarded 10 db of "honorary gain" simply by
virtue of their ingenuity.

>(my antenna) is about 5.5 or 6' off the ground...no higher
>Any suggestions as to how I can get out better?

Maybe if nobody can see it -- you can get it up higher and keep it
there. My favorite stealth antenna material is magnet wire. You can dig
this out of an old transformer or even a busted loudspeaker's coil. The
thin stuff is truly INVISIBLE to neighbors and wives alike, and it'll
handle 100 watts, no sweat.

Try it as a long longwire end-fed from your tuner. (Be sure and ground
everything in the shack like crazy) No trees in your yard? Use a sock
filled with sand for a weight and hurl the far end of the wire onto a
NEIGHBORS roof or tree. (I would advise doing this at night, though. If
you are caught, claim you are "trying out an old FARMERS ALMANAC recipe
to keep bats away". People universally hate bats, and love farmers)

If you can't possibly scheme to get it more than 5 feet off the ground,
try flinging a few hundred feet of the magnet wire all around the yard
in a big loop (find out measurements in the ARRL Handbook or similar
tome). Loops do well at low heights.

You can get adventurous with feedlines,too, there's no reason to stick
with coax. 300-ohm TV twinlead has had an undeserved bad rap for years,
I'm not sure why. It's miracle stuff, and will perform better than
commercial 450 ohm 'transmitting' ladder line in many applications.

Try using small gauge lamp-cord, speaker wire ('zip cord)' as a feedline
from your tuner's balanced line outputs. Keep the paint-mixer
"insulators" ---or try thick rubber bands, plastic knives, popsicle
sticks, or old cigars.

And don't fuss too much about SWR. A little mismatch is good for you and
builds character.

If all else fails, you can always blame the current low sunspot cycle
and not your magnificent, one-of-a-kind antenna.

-jt- WB1GFH




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:54 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!dobie.loop.net!news
From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 23:26:33 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 52
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <575cr9$[e-mail]>
References: <571kv0$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (riot nrrrd) wrote:

> (my) antenna is made of speaker wire (!) with a paint mixer insulator.

EXCELLENT! See? You've got the true HAM SPIRIT! Scrounge, improvise, and
experiment! Do you think the spark-gap dudes of the teens and 20's just
went out and bought ready-built G5RV's from Van Gorden Engineering? No
way! They slapped together aerials out of bedsprings, chewing gum, and
frozen cow poop. For them, every day was Field Day. I think that
home-built antennas should be awarded 10 db of "honorary gain" simply by
virtue of their ingenuity.

>(my antenna) is about 5.5 or 6' off the ground...no higher
>Any suggestions as to how I can get out better?

Maybe if nobody can see it -- you can get it up higher and keep it
there. My favorite stealth antenna material is magnet wire. You can dig
this out of an old transformer or even a busted loudspeaker's coil. The
thin stuff is truly INVISIBLE to neighbors and wives alike, and it'll
handle 100 watts, no sweat.

Try it as a long longwire end-fed from your tuner. (Be sure and ground
everything in the shack like crazy) No trees in your yard? Use a sock
filled with sand for a weight and hurl the far end of the wire onto a
NEIGHBORS roof or tree. (I would advise doing this at night, though. If
you are caught, claim you are "trying out an old FARMERS ALMANAC recipe
to keep bats away". People universally hate bats, and love farmers)

If you can't possibly scheme to get it more than 5 feet off the ground,
try flinging a few hundred feet of the magnet wire all around the yard
in a big loop (find out measurements in the ARRL Handbook or similar
tome). Loops do well at low heights.

You can get adventurous with feedlines,too, there's no reason to stick
with coax. 300-ohm TV twinlead has had an undeserved bad rap for years,
I'm not sure why. It's miracle stuff, and will perform better than
commercial 450 ohm 'transmitting' ladder line in many applications.

Try using small gauge lamp-cord, speaker wire ('zip cord)' as a feedline
from your tuner's balanced line outputs. Keep the paint-mixer
"insulators" ---or try thick rubber bands, plastic knives, popsicle
sticks, or old cigars.

And don't fuss too much about SWR. A little mismatch is good for you and
builds character.

If all else fails, you can always blame the current low sunspot cycle
and not your magnificent, one-of-a-kind antenna.

-jt- WB1GFH




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!dobie.loop.net!news
From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 23:26:42 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 52
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <575cri$[e-mail]>
References: <571kv0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pma1_209.loop.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:571kv0$[e-mail]

[e-mail] (riot nrrrd) wrote:

> (my) antenna is made of speaker wire (!) with a paint mixer insulator.

EXCELLENT! See? You've got the true HAM SPIRIT! Scrounge, improvise, and
experiment! Do you think the spark-gap dudes of the teens and 20's just
went out and bought ready-built G5RV's from Van Gorden Engineering? No
way! They slapped together aerials out of bedsprings, chewing gum, and
frozen cow poop. For them, every day was Field Day. I think that
home-built antennas should be awarded 10 db of "honorary gain" simply by
virtue of their ingenuity.

>(my antenna) is about 5.5 or 6' off the ground...no higher
>Any suggestions as to how I can get out better?

Maybe if nobody can see it -- you can get it up higher and keep it
there. My favorite stealth antenna material is magnet wire. You can dig
this out of an old transformer or even a busted loudspeaker's coil. The
thin stuff is truly INVISIBLE to neighbors and wives alike, and it'll
handle 100 watts, no sweat.

Try it as a long longwire end-fed from your tuner. (Be sure and ground
everything in the shack like crazy) No trees in your yard? Use a sock
filled with sand for a weight and hurl the far end of the wire onto a
NEIGHBORS roof or tree. (I would advise doing this at night, though. If
you are caught, claim you are "trying out an old FARMERS ALMANAC recipe
to keep bats away". People universally hate bats, and love farmers)

If you can't possibly scheme to get it more than 5 feet off the ground,
try flinging a few hundred feet of the magnet wire all around the yard
in a big loop (find out measurements in the ARRL Handbook or similar
tome). Loops do well at low heights.

You can get adventurous with feedlines,too, there's no reason to stick
with coax. 300-ohm TV twinlead has had an undeserved bad rap for years,
I'm not sure why. It's miracle stuff, and will perform better than
commercial 450 ohm 'transmitting' ladder line in many applications.

Try using small gauge lamp-cord, speaker wire ('zip cord)' as a feedline
from your tuner's balanced line outputs. Keep the paint-mixer
"insulators" ---or try thick rubber bands, plastic knives, popsicle
sticks, or old cigars.

And don't fuss too much about SWR. A little mismatch is good for you and
builds character.

If all else fails, you can always blame the current low sunspot cycle
and not your magnificent, one-of-a-kind antenna.

-jt- WB1GFH




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:55 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.charm.net!fred.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (R.Moroney)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Windoms?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:54:03 -0500
Organization: FredNet - Frederick, Md.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: windbrkr.fred.net
X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v1.01

I haven't seen much mention of Windom antennas here, at least not since
I've been sampling this newsgroup, so I've been wondering whether they're
even in the running as a viable wire antenna system.  The ARRL antenna
handbook seems to trash them pretty much out of hand, as being dangerous
to use, because they bring RF back to the rig.

Are they really that bad?  A couple of the antenna catalogs I've seen
rave about their quiet receive performance and their broad frequency
coverage with minimal tuning, and either claim to control the RF at the
rig with chokes, etc., or don't mention it at all.

I know antennas are like sports, politics and religion, but I thought I'd
still risk the question -- for a multiband wire antenna, which is
"better", a Windom or a G5RV, or some other design?

Comments?  Thanks & 73.

Bob Moroney  K9CMR



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:57 1996
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From: "Mark Bryant" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 01:17:19 GMT
Organization: SOHObusiness Services
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <01bbd8dc$3d37ea60$a3d879a8@soho>
References: <[e-mail]> <01bbd8ad$a45fbc60$75a9f7ce@lgg>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:118628 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42801 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31887

Regarding placement of the HT, Cannondale and many others have a pack that
rests between the handlebars.  Not only is this the best place for the
radio to be for convenience, the handlebars protect the HT in case of a
crash.  If you use drop bars you will need to remove the second set of
brake levers that parallel the handlebar as it goes into the stem.  Those
second set of brakes are not very useful anyway providing only about 30% of
the leverage that the primary brake levers provide on the forward part of
the drops.  You can hold about 10 pounds in that front pack which is more
than enough for radio, extra batteries and more.  You can also take the
pack off and carry it in as you need to.

This system is much better than clipping the radio on the belt because you
will not ever be concerned about it coming loose and having to adjust it
while riding.

I have used a HT over 7500 miles without problems.

Mark
KB4SML

Larry Gagnon <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<01bbd8ad$a45fbc60$75a9f7ce@lgg>...
>
>
> Kenneth E. Harker <[e-mail]> wrote in article
> <[e-mail]>...
> >      I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
> > decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.
>   This means VOX.  I know that one of the
> > accessories designed to work with my rig (an Alinco DJ-580T) is a
headset
> > with VOX.  There is also an earbud-mic accessory from Alinco that I
think
> > might work with my rig (and is $20 cheaper.)  Assuming that I can
choose
> > from either one, which is preferable?  What are people's opinions of
the
> > earbud-mic arrangement?
> You could try a simle clip microphone/spkr HT to your collar instead,
> >
> >      * What is the best way to secure my HT to the bicycle?
> Don't bother. Clip it to your belt or put it in your pack.
>
> > Is there a mobile antenna mount that
> > would easily and securely attach itself to such a rack?
>
> get yourself a HT 5/8 whip and mount it to a BNC clip on system found in
> most radio catalogs.
>
>


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:57 1996
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From: "Matthew A. Erickson" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for book "Loop Antenna Design..."
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:44:04 -0800
Organization: The-Q-continum
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <573rh5$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Wolfgang Gellerich wrote:
>
> The ARRL Antenna Book cites some articles collected in the following
> book:
>
> M.G. Knitter (ed.): Loop Antenna Design and Theory, National Radio
> Club, Cambridge, WI, 1983
>
> Does anyone know how to obtain a copy of this book? I did not find it
> even in the databases of some internet-bookshops.
>
> mni tnx & vy 73,
>
>   Wolfgang DJ3TZ
Who needs a book on loops ?
divide 1005 by the freq. of operation, for the total lenth. Put it up 40
ft or more, and run with it !



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Joseph Scanlan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Coax feedline questions
Date: 23 Nov 1996 03:51:20 GMT
Organization: Access Nevada Inc.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <575sbo$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


I'm going to run feed lines in the walls of my house and have
some questions I need to answer.

A little background.  This spring or summer I plan to get
radio(s), as yet unchosen, for VHF and UHF (2m, 440, and maybe
220).  Soon (sometime this winter) I will be tearing into a wall
on the second story of my house.  This is an outside wall
directly above my living room, where I want the radio.  This
looks like a good time to run feed line from my living room to
my attic!

This isn't something I want to do twice so I want to run extra
feed line and leave it behind the wall.  I also want to use line
with as little loss as I can.  After all, if it's worth doing,
it's worth doing to excess.  I'm thinking of a weather tight box
under the eaves with panel mount N connectors, another box with
panel mount connectors in the living room, and hardline running
between them.

I would like some pointers to information as well as opinions.
Some of the questions I need to answer are:

    Does hardline make sense for this project or should I stick
with RG8?

    Will the cost of hardline send me into "sticker shock"?

    Can I put a bend in hardline?  How large of a radius?

    Will the N connectors at roof and floor add more loss
than I'm saving?

    If I use RG8 in the walls should I forget about the panel
connectors and run from radio to antenna?

    When I'm done, will I wish I had stuck with my HT and
rubber duck antenna?  8-)

I've done some reading, mostly the ARRL Antenna Book but don't
have any experience.  Your kind pointers to information and
gentle advice will be greatly appreciated.  ;-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Scanlan  N7XSD                                 (FAX) 702 455-4932
[e-mail] (not work)            http://coyote.accessnv.com/jps
[e-mail] (work)                   http://www.co.clark.nv.us
------------ Ignorance is curable, stupidity is forever. ------------


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:42:59 1996
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From: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: help--Van Gorden short dipole
Date: 23 Nov 1996 04:26:17 GMT
Organization: IntelliNet ISP (Customer)
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <575ud9$[e-mail]>
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hello there---steve here. Need some help, I bought a antenna at Memphis
ham fest this year. From fleamarket dealer and was told that I could find
the dimensions for it in the antenna handbook---but cudn't. So anyone out ther
e
know the correct dimensions for the Van Gorden "Shorty" 40 mtr. dipole???
It has never been used (balun and coils) but was lacking the wire or
instructions for lengths---appreciate any help.  73 de kb5vca



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:01 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 23 Nov 1996 04:38:05 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Hi Chip,

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>The 'H' antenna you describe sounds like an antenna I modelled in Sept.
>Its a dipole (center fed) with length 1/8 wave with end 'caps' each 1/8
>wave, center attached. In other words, an end-capped dipole, as I alluded
>to as a possibility for you to try.  At 14 MHz, with copper losses, wire
>width 0.002 waves, I actually get slightly higher FS, about 1.8dBi
>broadside. However, this is STILL NOT a -resonant--antenna at the
>frequency corresponding to the 1/8 wave dimensions. It needs additional
>loading, presumably coils, to get it to resonance. Indeed, the presence
of
>additional loads degrades the FS by at least 1/2 dBi at this HF
frequency;
>substantially more at microwave. Also, the width is pretty big for the
>wire, and thinner wire might apply better, with worse results.

No, the key is to increase end capacitance, by fanning the wires, making a
cage, or increasing wire size at the ends. In honor of Rick I call this a
road-kill diskpole.

Here's where we have to be careful.

When modeled with #2 wires, and four wires at the outer ends spread about
two feet at the outer ends, coil Q's of 300, and 11 segments in the wires
the darned thing came out with 2.25 dBi in freespace with 2% BW at 2:1
vswr.

When modeled with many segments gain drops to 1.49 dBi with coil Q's of
300, this is almost independent of coil placement in the radiating area. I
suspect your MI2 fractal is a partial victim of these changes, since
segment changes that give no warning change the gain at times. When I
model it with copper loss and many segments I got 1.31 dBi but much less
BW, only >.3%.

Did you increase segments and see if the gain remained constant?  Did you
use copper loss?

>Another possibility, a variation on the 'H',  is to try a 'z' where the
>diagonal is center feed and the loading is, well, the other parts of a
>'z'.

The only zzz's I'll try are on my pillow.

>Do you have a candidate for a resonant antenna --sans discrete loads--
>inside the box?

Sure, it can be done with one simple fold. Just remember the rule, maximum
radiation occurs when maximum charges are uniformly accelerated over the
largest linear spatial area.

>As for the loop, again most intriguing. Please give the geometry (quad?)
>and placement of coils. Would also help if you tried a couple of cases
>with coils of Q 150 or so. Bandwidth also very much needed for
>understanding.

I can pull the model back down, but I used loading coils at each corner,
Q=300 (VERY PRATICAL Q value, my 160 and 80 mobile coils are in the Q~350
range). I used thick side wires to increase capacitance and minimize
inductance required. The more C the better, becasue the goal is always
maximum uniform in phase acceleration of the maximum nuber of charges over
the largest linear spatial area. The sides do not radiate, they just
terminate the two parallel thinner wires that radiate and allow minimum
inductance and maximum uniform current. No sweat.

 >Finally on the issue of bandwidth. Let's agree again that it's the FS
that
>counts, not the rad resistance, for gain performance comparison. But do
>you disagree with this statement: a folded dipole has greater bandwidth
>than a 'regular' one (both 1/2 wave largest dimension)--and both have
>about the same FS?

BW is more a function of the energy storage around the antenna than
anything else. A short antenna very thick at the open ends (or voltage
point) will have better BW, because less energy is stored and returned to
the system.

The fact it is "folded" is not the cause of BW, and folding the wire can
even hurt BW.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:02 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 06:48:06 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <5766na$[e-mail]>
References: <57294g$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>John 015 wrote:
>> But now why is the reflector not made resonant ?
>
>Hi John, if the reflector and driven element are resonant
>and close together, the antenna is bi-directional with
>a 0 dB front to back ratio.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA

C'mon, Cecil, I know you have EZNEC. Make a 10.4 meter long wire, free
space, #14 wire, 21 segments, frequency 14 MHz. Verify that it's resonant.
Now make an identical wire and vary the spacing between it and the driven
element. Hint: Try spacings from at least 1 to 6 meters. What happens?

Better yet, try this in your back yard with real wire and a field strength
meter.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:03 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 06:53:34 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <57671j$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx15-08.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] wrote:
>Hi Mike--
>
>You are right and they are wrong. Much of the exagerrated loss stuff is
>put on as a baiting strategy. Some of us appreciate your comments and your
>effort to dig out the info.
>
>If the AEA isoloop was 10-12 dB down from a 20M dipole --AT A REASONABLE
>HEIGHT-- then they wouldn't sell any. Period.
>
>73
>Chip N1IR

Without any certain knowledge of the Isoloop's performance, I can say
without fear of contradiction that it's entirely possible to sell LOTS of
antennas which are that poor relative to a dipole. There's one in
particular that has been advertised for years (at several hundred bucks per
ad) that I'll bet you good money is at least 10 dB below a dipole. I'm
sure they won't tell us how many they've sold but I'm sure I can easily
verify they've paid well over $10k in ad expenses. Tell you what, $500 and
the loser pays the lab fee. Are you in? Or do you retract the period?

Roy "snake eyes" Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Info on calibrated antennas for measuring power density needed
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 07:01:59 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <5767hc$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx15-08.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31947 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118737

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Michael L. Ardai) wrote:
>I'm looking for some information on how to make a calibrated antenna
>for signal strength measurements.  A Cell/PCS company is installing a
>site on the building we live in with the antennas just 12 feet over the
>roof (and our apartment right below the roof...) and I want to be able
>to measure the field strength within the apartment once the system is
>operational.  I'll be using a Tek 491 spectrum analyzer for these
>measurements, but I don't have a calibrated receive antenna to make the
>numbers meaningful.
>
>Also, does anyone have any pointers to calculating near-field power
>density?  They are claiming 100W ERP at 866 MHz.
>
>Thanks for any assistance.
>/mike
>

The gain of a thin dipole is well known. You should be able to make good
measurements over a narrow frequency range with one if you take care to
decouple the outside of the feedline and account for the feedline loss. If
you need directivity, the NBS published a standard Yagi some time ago with
known gain. I don't recall where I came across it, but perhaps someone can
point you to the publication. You should also be able to get within a
fraction of a dB of the gain predicted by a computer model of a simple
antenna.

If you need traceability, you'll probably have to buy an antenna. Several
companies advertise in EMC-related trade magazines and I can send you some
addresses if you'd like. Last I checked, prices were in the ballpark of
$1k.

It's tricky to calculate near-field power density. In the far field, you
know the ratio of E/H so you only have to measure one to know the other
and, hence, the power density. In the near field, you don't know their
ratio so have to measure both E and H in order to compute the power
density.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet2.afn.org!afn17891
From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax feedline questions
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:04:24 -0500
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <575sbo$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.afn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
NNTP-Posting-User: afn17891
To: Joseph Scanlan <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <575sbo$[e-mail]>

On 23 Nov 1996, Joseph Scanlan wrote:
> I'm going to run feed lines in the walls of my house and have
> some questions I need to answer.
> A little background.  This spring or summer I plan to get
> radio(s), as yet unchosen, for VHF and UHF (2m, 440, and maybe
> 220).  Soon (sometime this winter) I will be tearing into a wall
> on the second story of my house.  This is an outside wall
> directly above my living room, where I want the radio.  This
> looks like a good time to run feed line from my living room to
> my attic!
> This isn't something I want to do twice so I want to run extra
> feed line and leave it behind the wall.  I also want to use line
> with as little loss as I can.  After all, if it's worth doing,
> it's worth doing to excess.  I'm thinking of a weather tight box
> under the eaves with panel mount N connectors, another box with
> panel mount connectors in the living room, and hardline running
> between them.
> I would like some pointers to information as well as opinions..
> Some of the questions I need to answer are:
>     Does hardline make sense for this project or should I stick
> with RG8?
>     Will the cost of hardline send me into "sticker shock"?
>     Can I put a bend in hardline?  How large of a radius?
>     Will the N connectors at roof and floor add more loss
> than I'm saving?
>     If I use RG8 in the walls should I forget about the panel
> connectors and run from radio to antenna?
>     When I'm done, will I wish I had stuck with my HT and
> rubber duck antenna?  8-)
> I've done some reading, mostly the ARRL Antenna Book but don't
> have any experience.  Your kind pointers to information and
> gentle advice will be greatly appreciated.  ;-)
> ------------ Ignorance is curable, stupidity is forever. ------------

Well lets go to the heart of the matter first...

If your going to want to feed coax or coaxs' in a semi permanent manor
[cause nothing lasts forever...]  I would consider using PVC pipe 1" or
bigger, maybe a couple of them to be put in the wall. Put "Sweeps" on
the ends where you need curved turns [90] not elbows...

If your going to be limited to low power rigs use a good coax not hardline.
You ruin hardline making tight turns... The Imp. goes to hell at the bends
when they're to tight.... Use something appropriate RG-8 [foam] or RG-8x
for 160M thru 2M.... For 220 an higher [440] use something like LMR 400 or
LMR 600 for very low loss on long runs for UHF... You never said how long
of a run from rig to antenna it was going to be...? I would only approach
using the higher priced coax on low power, UHF rigs or for Sat work...
I would use it when the length exceeded 100' end to end.... Order the
connectors you need from the same place you get the coax [making sure to
get what you need for the coax...

I wouldn't put any extra plates with connectors [bulk-heads] or splice
joints you don't need... Do a end to end - straight shot. I really
prefer "N" connectors period... Have even gone to the point of changing
connector types at the antennas... [ WHY? - cause water, corroision
an poor connections spell - pending disaster...] Even with N connectors
in Fla., you need to seal them too... Use coax seal, tape or what have you.

Keep it simple, easy to repair or replace...

Good Luck...

BTW> By using 2 PVC pipes, some extra string an some fore thought; you
can make life easier on your self... Pull in 1 RG-8 or 8X in one PVC
an pull 1 LMR-400 into the other... But pull several extra strings in
at the same time; for future additions...

Later De Tom
73'




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:06 1996
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:30:32 -0800
From: Randy Jones <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Want Kenwood IF-10D Computer Interface.
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William Vynck wrote:
>
> MICHAEL J DRUM wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I want to buy a Kenwood IF-10D Computer interface for my TS-60. If you
> > have one for sale please contact me at my Email address and let me know
> > the details. I will answer all reply's sent.
> >
> > Thank You.
> >
> > Mike>
>
> DONT BUY !!
>
> To expencive, i could send you the chematics to build one.
>
> 73
> William

Build, ha! Many of us "appliance operators" are either too busy to build
or don't know one end of a soldering iron from the other.

Besides, OEM equipment always looks so much nicer.

Radio Randy.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:07 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop..."
Date: 23 Nov 96 07:50:01 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Markey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: Windoms
Date: 23 Nov 96 11:03:14 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Bob, I used 130' single wire windoms several times in the past 15 years. =
 In both cases, I used them because they fit well into the space I had =
available.  I terminated the single wire feed onto a feedthru insulator =
installed through the side of the house.  On a second feedthru I =
connected a short ground strap to an 8' ground rod.  Not exactly a great =
ground system.  Inside the house was a short length of open wire line =
connected to a hefty 4:1 balun.  The other side of the balun connected =
to a tuner.  The antenna always worked well on all bands.  I even used =
it on 160.  HOWEVER, I never had any other antennas up at the time, so I =
could not compare it to a dipole cut for a particular band.  RF in the =
shack is a potential problem.  Usually playing with the length of the =
feed will usually allow you to eliminate the problem.  My old ARRL =
Antenna Books contain info on the Windom.  The last several editions =
I've seen dropped any reference to this antenna. =20

de Rick, KN3C
>>>>>>>>>>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:54:03 -0500
From: [e-mail] (R.Moroney)
Subject: Windoms?

I haven't seen much mention of Windom antennas here, at least not since=20
I've been sampling this newsgroup, so I've been wondering whether =
they're=20
even in the running as a viable wire antenna system.  The ARRL antenna=20
handbook seems to trash them pretty much out of hand, as being dangerous =

to use, because they bring RF back to the rig.

Are they really that bad?  A couple of the antenna catalogs I've seen=20
rave about their quiet receive performance and their broad frequency=20
coverage with minimal tuning, and either claim to control the RF at the=20
rig with chokes, etc., or don't mention it at all.

I know antennas are like sports, politics and religion, but I thought =
I'd=20
still risk the question -- for a multiband wire antenna, which is=20
"better", a Windom or a G5RV, or some other design?

Comments?  Thanks & 73.

Bob Moroney  K9CMR
>>>>>>>>>>



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:09 1996
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From: Duncan Clark <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:03:05 +0000
Organization: DNAmp Ltd.
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes
>Pse explain: you say isoloop was 10-12 dB down BUT signal reports
>consistently were equivalent.

Check the power levels:

>In on the air tests, with a dipole at 50 ft and the AEA loop at 50 ft,
>dozens of stations I worked said the signal was exactly equal from the
>loop and the broadside dipole (when I ran *8* watts in the dipole and
>*100* in the loop).

Duncan
G4ELJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
The problem with being on the cutting edge is that you occasionally get
sliced from time to time....

Dr. Duncan Clark
DNAmp Ltd.
TEl/FAX [phone]
http://www.dnamp.com
http://www.genesys.demon.co.uk


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:11 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 23 Nov 1996 12:15:40 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 33
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Hi Tom--

The MI2 is not a victim of modelling as it has been confirmed by
measurement. Dumb statement.

I do not believe you know how to use EZNEC properly on the two antenna you
describe. Let's start out with the simple one: the 'H'. If you use the L/D
limits described there, it is not possible to produce a resonant 'H'
antenna as you describe, irrespective of the width you use on the
horizontal section, within a 1/8 by 1/8 wave area constraint. Furthermore,
I spent some time last night making several thick 'h's as you describe
and NONE had better than 2 dB return losses at sizes corresponding to 1/8
wave. Thanks for wasting my time. If these were resonant antenna the
modest feedpoint resistance would surely have indicated at least a modest
dip at resonance.

As for the 4-coil loop, well, what can I say? A 0.3% bandwidth Tom? Don't
think so. And how' bout that 2 ohm (or less) feedpoint resistance?

Sorry Tom, you stretched your credibility too much for me here. Perhaps if
you were forthcoming in your modelling parameters this would have been
more obvious.

You allude to the  euclidean capped 'diskpole'. This is a catchy name for
a conventional  capped antenna apparently anticipated by Moxon (perhaps
others) that Littlefield and I 'invented' in the Summer. It is a
derivative work, unfortunately, and therefore does not appear to have
novelty; perhaps the patent office is in a better position to determine
this. I would object to any claims of novelty given the previous art. Nice
antenna though--for its niche.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:13 1996
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From: Mike Swaney <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:00:58 -0500
Organization: Less_Is_Better
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Larry Gagnon wrote:
>
> Kenneth E. Harker <[e-mail]> wrote in article
> <[e-mail]>...
> >      I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
> > decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.
> > Is there a mobile antenna mount that
> > would easily and securely attach itself to such a rack?
>
> get yourself a HT 5/8 whip and mount it to a BNC clip on system found in
> most radio catalogs.An article in QST describes a a 2m j-pole attached to a
bicycle safety flag
fiberglass mast.  It has all the gain you can ask for and is almost
indestructable.  It only costs the $5 or so $$ for the flag, some coax,
TV twinlead, and a connector.  I used 75 ohm stranded coax for the most
flexibility but it is difficult to attach to a twist-on connector.  Since
my first attempt had an SWR below 1.8:1, I didn't try to improve anything.
Using clear twinlead and white tywraps on the white fiberglass makes for a
very unobtrusive antenna -- Except for the coax leading to the HT when in
use, it looks just like any other bike flag.  Have Fun!

Mike, N8XZF/bicycle mobile


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:14 1996
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From: James Hilliard <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Tape measure antenna
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:40:39 -0500
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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Several years ago I saw and used a antenna designed around a
2 sided tape measure that went out about 100 feet or so on each
side.  The antenna was a 4 to 6 inch round tape measure case that
was spring loaded and both ends of the antenna came out of the
case at the same time.  The tape was marked in band/frequency
lenghts and had a connector for attatchment of a coax.  I was
really impressed when I saw this system.  It is designed for
portable hf use.

Has anyone seen one of these?  Where can I find one?


Mark Hilliard, N2HHR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:15 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 23 Nov 1996 14:46:37 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 45
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References: <[e-mail]>
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Hi Chip,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>Pse explain: you say isoloop was 10-12 dB down BUT signal reports
>consistently were equivalent. Your implication was: 1) the QSO'er
couldn't
>notice a 10dB difference; 2) they were lying to you; 3) a combination of
>both.

I probably wasn't clear enough in my writing. Look at the last sentence in
my description again. I said:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>>In on the air tests, with a dipole at 50 ft and the AEA loop at 50 ft,
>>dozens of stations I worked said the signal was exactly equal from the
>>loop and the broadside dipole (when I ran 8 watts in the dipole and 100
in
>>the loop).

Let's see what that power ratio was:
100/8 log10 = 10.97 dB

Seems to me that agrees OK with the FSM.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that's very very good for a small antenna,
but it sure isn't what I call efficient. An efficent loop could be built
by brazing a vacuum cap across the open end and using copper pipe (with no
joints), but it would be hard to build and expensive. A small loop antenna
isn't going  to be efficient unless the conductor is smooth, round, and
devoid of pressure connections. The capacitor has to be as dense as
possible to make its' internal inductance and resistive losses low. If the
self inductance of the capacitor is high bandwidth decreases while
efficiency decreases.

That's an important phenomena, spreading unnecessary inductance and
capacitance around in the system can decrease both BW and efficiency, so a
narrower BW antenna can be less efficient than a wider BW antenna of
similar dimensions.

On the subject of honest reports, Hams should always watch tones as well
as strength. The tone was less than T-9 on that last transmission. Ur RST
515.  :-)
.
73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:16 1996
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The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
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of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax feedline questions
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:17:30 -0600
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>
> BTW> By using 2 PVC pipes, some extra string an some fore thought; you
> can make life easier on your self... Pull in 1 RG-8 or 8X in one PVC
> an pull 1 LMR-400 into the other... But pull several extra strings in
> at the same time; for future additions...
>
> Later De Tom
> 73'
>

You only need one string in the pipe as I did, needed is a little more
than twice the legnth of pipe you have. This allowed me to make a loop and
then tie the ends together. Now all I have to do is put the pully in place
and connect the coax to the loop in the string and pull it through the
pipe.

Be shure to use some good string that will not degrade with time, it is
going to be hard to replace when it breaks half way through the pipe.

Charles   KD4HHX


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick R. McKeeby)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Tape measure antenna
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:40:17 GMT
Organization: Sprint - Southern Operations
Lines: 21
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Hygain used to make on of those antennas a few years ago.  I
don't know if they still make them or not.  I've seen it used while
I was  and also when I worked overseas for the U.S. Government.

James Hilliard <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Several years ago I saw and used a antenna designed around a
>2 sided tape measure that went out about 100 feet or so on each
>side.  The antenna was a 4 to 6 inch round tape measure case that
>was spring loaded and both ends of the antenna came out of the
>case at the same time.  The tape was marked in band/frequency
>lenghts and had a connector for attatchment of a coax.  I was
>really impressed when I saw this system.  It is designed for
>portable hf use.

>Has anyone seen one of these?  Where can I find one?


>Mark Hilliard, N2HHR




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (j)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2m/440 short length moderate gain?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 16:21:24 GMT
Organization: Second Amendment Preservation Society
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <5778a4$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: jc017.socketis.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

Hi,

    I'm looking for a relatively short (30" absolute max, but less preferred)
antenna that will work on 2m/440.  Am planning on center mounting it on top of

a Grand Cherokee.

    Any recommendations appreciated.  Thanks!

73 de John.



 John Leveron  KB0YPK / Internet Email: [e-mail]
  PGP 2047 bit key; strong encryption for the average citizen!
  -----------  Use your vote or lose your rights!  -----------
   "The Second Amendment guarantees all of the others . . ."
pub 2047/4120C76D 1995/11/16 John M. Leveron {[JML2048]}
PGP Public Key fingerprint = A0 19 3E 2D E4 31 02 97
                             87 FB 62 DA 9F 94 24 77



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:19 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Stevenson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 16:34:57 GMT
Organization: ICNet LLC, Salisbury, MD
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
xas.edu (Kenneth E. Harker) wrote:
>     I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
>decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.  I already have a
>dual-band FM HT, but I'm interested in hearing from others about the best
>way to accomplish the rest of the setup.
>
>     * Naturally, I'd like to be able to operate with both hands on the
>handlebars at the same time.  This means VOX.  I know that one of the
>accessories designed to work with my rig (an Alinco DJ-580T) is a headset
>with VOX.  There is also an earbud-mic accessory from Alinco that I think
>might work with my rig (and is $20 cheaper.)  Assuming that I can choose
>from either one, which is preferable?  What are people's opinions of the
>earbud-mic arrangement?


I use a hand mic.  The radio is attached to the handlebars.  See below.

>     * What is the best way to secure my HT to the bicycle?  Ideally, it
>should be easy to attach the radio to the bike and easy to remove it.  Or
>is it easier to somehow attach it to myself or my backpack?


I took a mount for a handlebar-mounted light (Cateye is the brand of the
light) and modified it to mount on the back of my ht.  If you want details of
this arrangment, email me.


>     * I think a simple dual-band mobile-style antenna would probably be
>the best way to get out.  My bicycle is a mountain-bike style and I can
>easily get a
>rack to fit over my rear wheel.  Is there a mobile antenna mount that
>would easily and securely attach itself to such a rack?  Can anyone
>recommend a particular antenna/mount combination?

I use the rubber duck.  Distance isn't great but then again our club rptr is
at 825 feet or so (http://www.intercom.net/user/jxs2151)



>     Anything else I should keep in mind?
>

When mounting the radio to the handlebars I had to do some mods to the
mounting arrangment to dampen vibration.  I have a road bike so bumps are
minimal.  I am much more concerned for the radio when I mount it to my
off-road bike and go off-road, particularly because the radio is right in
front of my face and I can see it being bounced around.  This will probably
not increase the usable life of the radio  :--)


Jeff


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:20 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 23 Nov 1996 16:37:47 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Tom--

Just had 3 colleagues look over my shoulder on your 'H' antenna. Without a
doubt, EZNEC (M) is incapable of demonstrating a resonant 'H' antenna
(with fat sides; with thin sides; with medium sides, whatever)--without
discrete loading-- within a 1/8 by 1/8 wave area  constraint.  Furthermore
SNA testing on several width variations fails to manifest the option you
describe.Your result is spurious; I hope you have not passed this
recommendation off to others as it will lead to disappointment.

Frankly Tom, I was expecting a little more, but hope you can find your
error. Best of luck!

Cheers
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:21 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Apartment "tape" antenna
Date: 23 Nov 1996 17:15:26 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 5
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
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Is there such a thing as a dual 2m/440 J pole tape antenna that I could
make? That is the kind one could tape to a large apartment window. If
not...any ideas? Thanks,
Mike
WB3CPF


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:22 1996
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From: "Ra·l Valero Gimeno" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Does anyone knows how to make an antenna for UHF & VHF bands?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:39:49 GMT
Organization: Unisource Espana NEWS SERVER
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Please help me on build an antenna for uhf and/or vhf band. Thank you



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:23 1996
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From: John Wong <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HELP  Antenna in the Power Lines !!!!!
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:55:06 -0800
Organization: Redshift Online Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <555sva$[e-mail]>
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Patrick Tatro wrote:
> =

> Help antenna in the power lines!!!! Last night the
> horizontal portion of my inverted =91L=92 blew into
> the power lines.  It knocked out the power and
> took out some of my home-brew switches but it
> didn=92t get into my rig. Before the storm my
> antenna was a good 15 to 20 feet from the lines
> but the winds were so strong that we became mixed.
> The wind also knocked down trees in my
> neighborhood.
> =

> My question is , does anybody know if I am liable
> for any expense/damage caused by this?
> =

> 73=92s
> Pat N0WCG

Pat:
Try using the same tactics the power companies use when the "shoe is on
the other foot"--plead an "Act of God" caused the mishap.  The companies
have used this plea successfully against users.  For example, try
collecting from the companies when a "brown out" cooks out the motors in
your refrigerator and freezer.

John, K6JE


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:24 1996
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The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:25 1996
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Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help with shunt fed tower needed (2 msgs)"
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The mailing list "with" could not be found.
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (riot nrrrd)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:17:43 GMT
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Joe Tyburczy ([e-mail]) somehow managed to write:
: EXCELLENT! See? You've got the true HAM SPIRIT! Scrounge, improvise, and

*grins*  why thankee

of course, spirit won't get me any QSOs :/

: Maybe if nobody can see it -- you can get it up higher and keep it

not really a question of seeing.  I've got bno trees and can't get up
on the roof until the weather warms (as the XYL doens't want to
stead the ladder for me for some reason)

Adtimmitedly, i thought about using some of the streetlights...maybe
a fuull wave 80m dipole....

: Try it as a long longwire end-fed from your tuner. (Be sure and ground

that's a minor problem...no tuner currently (Ui'm looking at the
ARRL handbook....io might actually have the spare parts to construct
one)

: And don't fuss too much about SWR. A little mismatch is good for you and
: builds character.

heh...but what will it do for the finals of my TS520SE ;)

All typoes entirely the fault of this ancient VT220 I'm on
right noW


--
73 de Dave Weingart  KB2CWF                 "Can you find the Valium?
mailto:[e-mail]                     Can you bring it soon?
mailto:[e-mail]        Lost Johnny's out there
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux                Baying at the Moon"
                                                   -- Hawkwind

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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:28 1996
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From: Jeff Hutchinson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Underwater Radials
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:31:01 -0500
Organization: Marine Electronics Services
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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I have just mounted a Butternut vertical antenna on a post about two
feet above the salt water in a canal in my backyard.  I attached radials
for 40m, 30m, and 20m, and, for lack of any better place to put them, I
submerged them in the salt water to a depth of about four feet.  Can
anyone comment on what sort of performance I can expect from this
antenna?  Should I put in a copper/brass grounding plate, right under
the antenna, and forget about the radials?  (The radials were cut from
some junk coax.)
Many of the articles that include projections of vertical antenna
radiation angles use propogation over salt water as a baseline, but none
I have read mention how to best couple the ground side of the antenna
system to the salt water.
Thanks for any assistance.
73,
Jeff W4PBC



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:28 1996
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:29 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
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Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help needed for 2.4 gig aerial downlink antenna"
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:30 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
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Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help with shunt fed tower needed (2 msgs)"
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The mailing list "with" could not be found.
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From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Meteosat antenna
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:51:54 GMT
Organization: Unisource Espana NEWS SERVER
Lines: 16
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Hi all.

I have a Icom IC-R8500 and a modem to decode fax transmissions.
I need an antenna to receive signals from Meteosat satellite (1690
Mhz).
Can anybody send me any schematic to built any antenna for that
band (parabolic or yagi) ?

Thanks in advance.

73 Albert, EA3PB.
E-mail: [e-mail]

N.B.: Pse, answer me via e-mail.




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:32 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Anikan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Broad band Xfmr question
Date: 23 Nov 96 22:02:58 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
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Hello all. I have to make a Xfme to go from 450ohm ladder line to 52 ohm
coax. I have the wiring layour for a 9:1 balun but have no idea of
size/number of turns of wire. The only toroid I have on hand is a
FT-114-61 which i think is appropriate. I will be using it for six meters
and fairly low power - usually less than 10W maybe up to 25W.

Anyone can help me out?? (BTW the nearest radio shop is 10hrs away so I
can't just run out and buy the manual)

Larry nixon



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:33 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 23 Nov 1996 22:06:56 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Chip

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>I do not believe you know how to use EZNEC properly on the two antenna
you
>describe. Let's start out with the simple one: the 'H'. If you use the
L/D
>limits described there, it is not possible to produce a resonant 'H'
>antenna as you describe, irrespective of the width you use on the
>horizontal section, within a 1/8 by 1/8 wave area constraint.

I don't understand your commets. If I can't use multiple wires to simulate
a thick wire, how can you expect to model a fractal folded up in even less
area accurately?

>Furthermore,
>I spent some time last night making several thick 'h's as you describe
>and NONE had better than 2 dB return losses at sizes corresponding to 1/8
>wave.

Did you load them?

>As for the 4-coil loop, well, what can I say? A 0.3% bandwidth Tom? Don't
>think so. And how' bout that 2 ohm (or less) feedpoint resistance?

I wonder what you mean by all that? That statement isn't very clear. Can
you explain it better.

>Sorry Tom, you stretched your credibility too much for me here. Perhaps
if
>you were forthcoming in your modelling parameters this would have been
>more obvious.

Chip, if you can be calm enough to explain what you meant by making the
horizontal wire of the H thick, I'd appreciate it. It really doesn't
affect the operation much, since the loading is the end wires and the
horizontal wire carries uniform current.

In real life, I'd use a very thick wire for the end loading wires.

Are you lashing out at me on a personal level because a loaded H with
thick end wires models with broader BW and about the same gain as a MI2?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 22:11:22 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <577sr0$[e-mail]>
References: <56h03o$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx16-25.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Stephen John Farthing <[e-mail]> wrote:
>It appears that Mr Hately GM3HAT has.
>
>According to his advert in Radio communication for Sept 95 a ground
>plane cfa is in use for MW Broadcasting at Tanta in the Nile Delta.
>It replaced a 65 Meter High 1/4 wave and is only 8 Metres high and
>requires 33 percent less power for the same coverage.

Seems to me that was the same installation their company was bragging about
several years ago. Doesn't seem to be catching on like wildfire. . .

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mosely V-5 vertical
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 22:18:22 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <577t84$[e-mail]>
References: <56vk9j$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <56vk9j$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Terry Burge) wrote:
>Question:
>
>Been getting ready to put up a Mosely V-5 vertical 10,15,20,40,80 meters
>that is approximately 40 feet high with 3 traps. All I really want is for
>the thing to work on 40/80 and maybe 160 (later probably). What I am
wonder-
>ing is can one or two of the traps be elliminated and tubing of a certain
>length be used to replace them so the antenna will work only on the bands
>I want and have less loss. Been reading ON4UN's book Low Band DXing and
>believe the antenna could be made better with a capacitance hat and
>maybe adding some height to it but not sure how to figure out how to come
>close to 3.8Mhz and 7.2Mhz. Not sure what elliminating a trap will do
>to the other bands, don't they use the inductance of all the traps to
>bring the antenna into resonance or do they just isolate the upper part
>of the antenna on the higher bands and act as shorts on the lower band?
>How to figure out what lenght of tubing is needed to replace them?

I can offer only general advice. Maybe someone else can offer more specific
information about that antenna.

A conventional (parallel LC) trap will always look like an inductor on
bands lower than the trap's resonant frequency, and will provide a loading
effect to the antenna. Just how much depends on how far the frequency is
from the trap's resonance, and the LC ratio of the trap. It's usually
substantial. You can get an idea of how much loading the trap provides by
comparing the element length with published information about how long an
unloaded element would be at the same frequency. To minimize loss, you'll
have to either extend the element or top load it with a capacitance hat
when you remove the trap.

>This is a big antenna and mechanically requires some planning putting it
up.
>Probably a dual set of guyes like it was designed for although I did
install
>crossed aluminum angles with diamond shaped guys on it to make it
stronger.
>Got 16 stakes in circle 33 feet from antenna that I've looped radials
around and
>will cut them in two at the stakes after I see how it performs this way.
>Burying them is going to take some figuring, alot of work! Best length I
>figure I can get for the guys right now and close to what the ARRL Ant
Hndbk
>says. Totally different than what ON4UN's book says for optimum number of
>radials of a certain percentage of wavelength.
>
>Would like to add an inductor and wire off the top to make an inverted L
for
>160 too but how would that effect the other bands?

I'd expect that to have very little effect on the other bands provided that
you have a good 80 meter trap at the connection point. It can provide some
of the inductance you'll need if the top is short.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:36 1996
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From: Dennis Breeden <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: hy-gain 18hts vertical
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:20:20 -0600
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <572l2h$[e-mail]>
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james flanagan wrote:
>
> I have used a butternut vertical for the past 10 years and it's about time t
o replace it.  Has anyone used the hy-gain 18HTS vertical, and if
so how would comp

I don't have this antenna, but from what I remember, it should have
about twice the bandwidth on 80 and 40 meters.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:38 1996
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From: Dennis Breeden <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:26:48 -0600
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56n866$[e-mail]>  <56togr$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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sshumway wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I've recently completed construction and setup of a G5RV type antenna.
>
> My antenna has 51 foot (each) horizontal elements constructed out of some
> scrap RG-58 coax (Center shorted to shield at both ends so it just looks lik
e
> a "big" wire).
>
> My matching section is composed of home-made ladder line. I constructed the
> ladder line from two piece of 12 gauge solid Cu wire. This was scavanged fro
m
> a hunk of Romex house wireing. I did leave the plastic insulation on the wir
e.
> I was hoping to get better weather protection with the insulation left on. T
he
> spacers for the ladder are made from some scrap Lexan that was being thrown
> away at work.
>
> At the bottom of the matching section I have 10 turns of RG-58 coax wound in
 a
> 6 inch diameter coil to keep RF off of the feed line (also RG-58).
>
> The whole thing is suspended almost 70 feet up from a pair of tall oak trees
.
> The bottom of the matching section is a little less than 30 feet off the
> ground.
>
> For a tuner, I'm using a home-made T network tuner that I made several years
> ago. I can get a good low SWR (usualy near 1.2 to 1) for most bands (except
> for 15 meters).
>
> All of this brings me to my purpose for the follow up post: I'm not real hap
py
> with the on-air results. I can't get the antenna to tune up on 15 meters at
> all. I've yet to make any contacts with the antenna at all. Not through a la
ck
> of trying.
>
> Given the somewhat limited information I've provided here, does anyone have
> any ideas about what I've done wrong?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help you can offer
>
> Steve Shumway
>
> N8SHP
>
> [e-mail]
>
> >You have a 1/2 size G5RV.  All of the commericial ones I have seen are
also 51 feet the 17 feet of 450 ohm feed line and it is recommended in
puting in choke as you did.  The minimum length of coax should be 35
feet.  This is also suppose to work on all bands from 10-40 meters.   I
have the same antenna but only up 20 feet and it seems to work ok.  For
a full size, double the demension.  Pat - WB3KUM


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ted Sarah)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: N.E. Ohio Amateur web page
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:48:08 GMT
Organization: Gateway to Internet Services
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <577vam$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: p1s25.gwis.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Interested in a club, repeater or net in the area of Northeastern
Ohio, then check out this web site:

        http://w3.gwis.com/~tsarah/ham.htm

Ted
KC8ENM



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:40 1996
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From: "Chuck (Jack) Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Broad band Xfmr question
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:31:27 -0600
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Anikan wrote:
>
> Hello all. I have to make a Xfme to go from 450ohm ladder line to 52 ohm
> coax. I have the wiring layour for a 9:1 balun but have no idea of
> size/number of turns of wire. The only toroid I have on hand is a
> FT-114-61 which i think is appropriate. I will be using it for six meters
> and fairly low power - usually less than 10W maybe up to 25W.
>
> Anyone can help me out?? (BTW the nearest radio shop is 10hrs away so I
> can't just run out and buy the manual)
>
> Larry nixon

The Jerry Sevick book says that this is a difficult balun to make since
the impedance of the pairs of wires (the transmission lines wound
through the toroids) has to be 150 ohms (kind of high). His 50:450 balun
uses a pair of #18 hookup wires separated by a #16 teflon tubing (the
tubing is a dielectric and maintains spacing between the two wires).
There are three toroids each wound with 15 turns of this two conductor,
separated by the teflon, transmission line. The toroids he uses are
permeability = 250 but since you don't care about the low frequency end
I would think that 125 (#61) is ok. I'm glad you have the wiring layout
since that is hard to do with words. The three toroids are separated by
1/4 inch acrylic sheets and bolted together thru the center of the
sandwich. He rates the bandwidth of his balun (permeability = 250) at
1.7 to 45 MHz flat. Maybe 54 MHz is not too far to go. His balun is
rated at 500 Watts.

Chuck, KE9UW



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:41 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop..."
Date: 23 Nov 96 23:55:56 GMT
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The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:42 1996
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From: INSIGHT Services <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160 - 10m Antenna Design Questions
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:34:31 -0500
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: viking.cris.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Background :
 I am looking to build dipoles for 160 - 10M operation. These will be
mounted inside a 2 story building.

1. How much distance do I need to leave between each dipole vertically and
horizontally ?

2. I am looking at using a single base with the dipoles attached at
different heights. Is this possible.

3. Since it will be inside is there a definite drawback from making them
straightline or horizontal dipoles instead of the standard vertical "u"
shape ?

4. Is there any great drawback from having them mounted within 10 feet of
my transmitter and computer system ?



Any assistance would be appreciated.
Thanks !

Susan





From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:43 1996
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From: INSIGHT Services <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best Indoor Antenna Design
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:36:04 -0500
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: viking.cris.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


I am looking into building an indoor antenna(s) for use from 160 - 10m .
Is there a design that is significantly better than horizontal dipoles
that would allow for better use of the space and create more gain ?


Susan





From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:44 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Marc Illsley Clarke)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment "tape" antenna
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:01:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfimic.fc.hp.com
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 23 Nov 1996 17:15:26 GMT

>>>>> "mmermag" == mmermag  <[e-mail]> writes:
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] wri
tes:


    mmermag> Is there such a thing as a dual 2m/440 J pole tape
    mmermag> antenna that I could make? That is the kind one could
    mmermag> tape to a large apartment window. If not...any ideas?
    mmermag> Thanks, Mike WB3CPF

300 Ohm TV twin lead J-Pole, fits easily in a window.

--
Marc Illsley Clarke, [e-mail]
4857 North Sheridan Avenue, Loveland, Colorado 80538-1767 USA
(Representing solely myself, I am emphatically NOT a representative of
any employer, club, group, church, league, organization, or government!)




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CDN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Home "field day" style antenna?
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:30:02 GMT
Organization: Systems Solutions Inc. (Arizona's Internet Provider)
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <571kv0$[e-mail]> <575cri$[e-mail]>
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Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]> wrote:

snip
EXCELLENT! See? You've got the true HAM SPIRIT! Scrounge, improvise,
and
experiment! Do you think the spark-gap dudes of the teens and 20's
just
went out and bought ready-built G5RV's from Van Gorden Engineering? No

way! They slapped together aerials out of bedsprings, chewing gum, and

frozen cow poop. For them, every day was Field Day. I think that
home-built antennas should be awarded 10 db of "honorary gain" simply
by
virtue of their ingenuity.

snip
>
Maybe if nobody can see it -- you can get it up higher and keep it
there. My favorite stealth antenna material is magnet wire. You can
dig
this out of an old transformer or even a busted loudspeaker's coil.
The
thin stuff is truly INVISIBLE to neighbors and wives alike, and it'll
handle 100 watts, no sweat.

Try it as a long longwire end-fed from your tuner. (Be sure and ground

everything in the shack like crazy) No trees in your yard? Use a sock
filled with sand for a weight and hurl the far end of the wire onto a
NEIGHBORS roof or tree. (I would advise doing this at night, though.
If
you are caught, claim you are "trying out an old FARMERS ALMANAC
recipe
to keep bats away". People universally hate bats, and love farmers)

If you can't possibly scheme to get it more than 5 feet off the
ground,
try flinging a few hundred feet of the magnet wire all around the yard

in a big loop (find out measurements in the ARRL Handbook or similar
tome). Loops do well at low heights.

You can get adventurous with feedlines,too, there's no reason to stick

with coax. 300-ohm TV twinlead has had an undeserved bad rap for
years,
I'm not sure why. It's miracle stuff, and will perform better than
commercial 450 ohm 'transmitting' ladder line in many applications.
>
Try using small gauge lamp-cord, speaker wire ('zip cord)' as a
feedline
from your tuner's balanced line outputs. Keep the paint-mixer
"insulators" ---or try thick rubber bands, plastic knives, popsicle
sticks, or old cigars.
>
And don't fuss too much about SWR. A little mismatch is good for you
and
builds character.
>
If all else fails, you can always blame the current low sunspot cycle
and not your magnificent, one-of-a-kind antenna.
>
-jt- WB1GFH

One of the best posts I have seen in 1 1/2 years on the net.  Sage
advice and comments from one who obviously loves, understands and
appreciates the hobby.

cdn


           C. Dean Norris
      Amateur Radio Station K7NO
      e-mail to [e-mail]
         Forever Conservative


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:47 1996
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From: [e-mail] (NuView Television)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS:Neumann U87Ai
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:51:06 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-88-239.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:50:15 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Brand new, in factory box's, with warranty papers, cable, swivel
mount, wind screen, U87Ai, Serial Number 64537.

$2050.00  includes shipping.

Bill
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (NuView Television)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS:Neumann U87Ai
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:53:04 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:51:06 GMT, [e-mail] (NuView
Television) wrote:

>Brand new, in factory box's, with warranty papers, cable, swivel
>mount, wind screen, U87Ai, Serial Number 64537.
>
>$2050.00  includes shipping.
>
>Bill
>[e-mail]

Sorry wrong post!!



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:49 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:39:12 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <565do3$[e-mail]>
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CHARLES J. MICHAELS wrote:
>
> Madjid, VE2GMI said -
> Since most feedpoints are out of reach I usually measure feedpoint
> impedance by using a 1/2 wave length coax (*Velocity) without anything
> else. At the coax end I am "sure" that I have the Z of the antenna and
> not some coax transformed value. When I am sure that the antenna is
> tuned I add a balun.
>
> Madjid,
>         In spite of the time honored use of this method, it is
> measuring the impedance of the feedppoint of the antenna with
> the coax connected to one side.
>         When this measurement line is removed and replaced by the
> final line with a balun, the current distribution in the antenna
> and feedline outer sheath are changed and the feedpoint impedance
> may be quite different from that measured with the measurement line.

I agree, but at least you know the "real" feedpoint impedance and
the "damage" will be minimal in my view if your balun is near the
feed point and not 10 or 20 feet away as the original poster had it.

If have a better solution please post it.

-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS AR40 Rotor  75.00
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:49:27 -0800
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 3
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <578gk7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyna0-11.digiforest.com

We have a telex five wire box AR 40 rotor
like new for 75.00
We ship COD  UPS you pay shipping


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:50 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop... (2 msgs)"
Date: 24 Nov 96 04:53:31 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:51 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help  antenna in the power lines !!!!!"
Date: 24 Nov 96 04:53:32 GMT
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Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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The mailing list "antenna" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:53 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 24 Nov 1996 05:16:59 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>Just had 3 colleagues look over my shoulder on your 'H' antenna. Without
a
>doubt, EZNEC (M) is incapable of demonstrating a resonant 'H' antenna
>(with fat sides; with thin sides; with medium sides, whatever)--without
>discrete loading-- within a 1/8 by 1/8 wave area  constraint.
Furthermore
>SNA testing on several width variations fails to manifest the option you
>describe.Your result is spurious; I hope you have not passed this
>recommendation off to others as it will lead to disappointment.

Chip,

I never said (that I can find anyway) that the antenna I described is
self-resonant. I very plainly indicated the antenna needs loading coils,
and even gave the Q's I used. The Q's I used were 300, a very reasonable
value.

I almost always re-post area's I question when I reply, because it helps
me catch errors in reading, plus the other person has a better idea of
what I am saying.

Just like in the AEA loop thread, you seem to have misread my comments and
then flew at me with unwarranted personal criticism. Calm down and think
before you pound out a string of insults. You only make yourself look
foolish when you fly off the handle, especially when it is due to simple
reading errors.

Please re-read my posts, and copy back the area you think I made a mistake
in. If you'd rather just fight, do it in private E-mail.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:54 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:40:33 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57294g$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5766na$[e-mail]>
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Roy Lewallen wrote:
> C'mon, Cecil, I know you have EZNEC. Make a 10.4 meter long wire, free
> space, #14 wire, 21 segments, frequency 14 MHz. Verify that it's resonant.
> Now make an identical wire and vary the spacing between it and the driven
> element. Hint: Try spacings from at least 1 to 6 meters. What happens?

Hi Roy, maybe you didn't understand what I said. I have two 34ft length
conductors spaced 8ft apart. I feed one in the center. At 14.06 MHz, the
frequency at which that system is resonant, EZNEC sez the radiation pattern
is bi-directional and the front-to-back ratio is 0dB or 1/1.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:55 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Near/Far fields and in between
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:48:08 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 10
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I'm doing some far field strength measurements. I know the near
field falls off as the cube of the distance and the intermediate
(induction) field falls off as the square of the distance. An RF
handbook says that the induction field extends to one wavelength
from a resonant dipole. Question is: how far from a dipole or
quarter-wave vertical do I have to be to ensure that I am measuring
mostly the far field. From what I read, seems a couple of wavelengths
should be enough? Like 500 ft for 75m and 70 ft for 10m?

thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:57 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David Kay)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: TS-870 and acessories
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:29:56 -0800
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm105-ip25.halcyon.com

     I'm getting out of HF.  This station is one year old.  Equipment is
like new - perfect appearance, function and rarely used (really!). Got S-9
from Japan 2 or 3 times.  All this equipment comes in it's original boxes
and protection (excepting R-7).

                             New Price             Your Price

Kennwood TS-870SAT           $2,299.95              $1900, shipped COD

  True DSP on TX and RX.  Antenna tuner
  on TX and RX.  Electronic Keyer.
  With software, unused & documents.

 SP-31 Speaker (for 870, 850)   $99.95              $60 + shipping COD

 MC-60 Mike                    $139.95              $85 + shipping COD
   Has preamp and up, down.


 Palomar M-840 LCD SWR Meter    $190.00            $115 + shipping COD
   Lew McCoy of CQ recommends.
Makes
   tuneup easy. Two vertical bars
that
   show SWR and power simultaneously.

 Bencher  RJ-1  Hand Key Black   $74.95             $50 + shipping COD
   Never used for QSO

         YA-1  Lo Pass Filter   $59.95              $45 + shipping COD

Cushcraft R-7 Vertical         $379.95             $250 + shipping COD

Plus all in-shack cables          0.00             There are a few.


     Please contact Dave Kay, AB7FV at  [e-mail]  or [phone]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:57 1996
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From: "Marc S. Karlan, M.D." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: antenna placement on boat
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:46:31 -0600
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, IL, US
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I am putting a series of antennas on a pole on the back of my boat. The
question is about how close they can be placed?

There is a radar. Above this are the other antennas. VHF and Cellular
broadcast and receive. Radar detector, GPS, dGPS and 416 MHZ whip just
receive. I can physically mount this all on a equilateral triangular
plate just 8 inches on a side. What happens? Please post and email


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:58 1996
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From: [e-mail]  (Frank Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996  11:24 EST
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <19961124112422.reid@frank_reid.electronics.indiana.edu>
References: <579irt$[e-mail]>
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In Article <579irt$[e-mail]> "[e-mail] (Erik Fins
kas)" says:
> The FT-50's antenna works well, but it is not so sensitive at outbands
> VHF, nor UHF and it is bit too long for FT-50...
>
> So if there is a source for rubber duckies with SMA-connector, please give
> me a pointer through email!
>
> Erik
> --
> Erik Finskas OH2LAK / M1AAJ
> Email [e-mail]
>       [e-mail]
> GSM 040-500 6800
>
The Standard C-108A 2m h-t and its dual-band cousin use SMA rubber duckies,
so replacements are probably available.  I don't know a specific source.

--

Frank     [e-mail]    W9M


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:43:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul J. Piercey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Information on the Shakespeare company.
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 12:24:31 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <579epu$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: terra.nlnet.nf.ca
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

I am looking for information on how to contact the Shakepseare company
regarding their antenna division (as opposed to actual fising rods HI)
concerning some of their products. If anyone happens to have an address or wbe

page address/email address for them, please forward it to me.

Thanks,

============================================================================
Paul J. Piercey (VO1HE)
Agent - The Mutual Group

President - Society of Newfoundland Radio Amateurs
Assistant Director, Avalon - Radio Amateurs of Canada
Sysop - VO1AAA, VO1BT

VO1HE@VO1AAA.#ENF.NF.CAN.NOAM
[e-mail]
============================================================================


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (David Tse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:47:50 GMT
Organization: Internet Gateway Corporation
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <579cff$[e-mail]>
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Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Kenneth E. Harker wrote:
>>
>>      I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
>> decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.  I already have a
>> dual-band FM HT, but I'm interested in hearing from others about the best
>> way to accomplish the rest of the setup.
>>
>> What are people's opinions of the
>> earbud-mic arrangement?

It's probably the most convenient, but also probably has the worst
sound unless you get the professional stuff which is very expensive.
There are many alternative mics/earphone arrangements on the market so
just try to see which fits best.  Important factors are wind noise,
obstruction w/ helmet, convenience (no hands off the handle bar is
best), and quality of sound on both sides.

>>
>>      * What is the best way to secure my HT to the bicycle?  Ideally, it
>> should be easy to attach the radio to the bike and easy to remove it.  Or
>> is it easier to somehow attach it to myself or my backpack?

At first I was thinking of strapping it on the handle bar so I can
control it.  A friend told me that if I dropped my bike, that could
make damages to the radio.  Now I think I'll put it in a bag or just
leave it on my belt or pocket.

>>      * I think a simple dual-band mobile-style antenna would probably be
>> the best way to get out.  My bicycle is a mountain-bike style and I can
>> easily get a
>> rack to fit over my rear wheel.

Try to find a very long dual-band handheld whip, which has to be very
soft, light weight, and flexible.  Try to find a ground independent
design, or 1/2 wave on the 2m side.  As the other guy said, it'll be
tough to mount the bike (I had that problem even w/ a 19" whip!!), so
if it's a BNC connector then it's just a matter of taking it off
before mounting the bike.  An hand-adjustable angle mount will do if
you can find one.

>> Is there a mobile antenna mount that
>> would easily and securely attach itself to such a rack?  Can anyone
>> recommend a particular antenna/mount combination?

Try to find some "mirror" mount and modify it.  A trunk lid mount will
also work too.  It depends on your rack a lot.

>>      Anything else I should keep in mind?

Use RG-174 cable because it's very thin.  My only problem w/ the setup
is that everytime I got off the bike I had to remove the antenna
cable.  A fancy option is to use a crossband repeat capable handheld
on the bike, and use a small radio like the Standard C108 or C508 on
the body, and repeat via the bike radio.

David Tse
VE7MDT
  ----
  In real life: David Tse    In ham radio: VE7MDT
  Primary e-mail: [e-mail]
  Alternative e-mail: [e-mail], [e-mail]
  ----



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!demos!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!news.microdata.fi!walrus.megabaud.fi!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Erik Finskas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: 24 Nov 1996 13:33:49 GMT
Organization: Megabaud M.I.T.S. Public Access Unix,  Helsinki, Finland
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <579irt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: walrus.megabaud.fi
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950520BETA PL0]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42903 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31962

The FT-50's antenna works well, but it is not so sensitive at outbands
VHF, nor UHF and it is bit too long for FT-50...

So if there is a source for rubber duckies with SMA-connector, please give
me a pointer through email!

Erik
--
Erik Finskas OH2LAK / M1AAJ
Email [e-mail]
      [e-mail]
GSM 040-500 6800


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Don Murray)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Tape measure antenna
Date: 24 Nov 1996 13:58:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <579kaf$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sav-ga2-01.ix.netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Nov 24  7:58:39 AM CST 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2)

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>Several years ago I saw and used a antenna designed around a
>2 sided tape measure that went out about 100 feet or so on each
>side.  The antenna was a 4 to 6 inch round tape measure case that
>was spring loaded and both ends of the antenna came out of the
>case at the same time.  The tape was marked in band/frequency
>lenghts and had a connector for attatchment of a coax.  I was
>really impressed when I saw this system.  It is designed for
>portable hf use.
>
>Has anyone seen one of these?  Where can I find one?
>
>
>Mark Hilliard, N2HHR

The Amateur Radio Club of Savannah uses one of these tape antennas for Field
day each year and it works well.  I haven't look at it close but it works as
you described it.  Our Club trustie is the person that fixed this one up for
the club uses.  WD4AFY, Andy Blackburn is our Club Trustie, I will try and
forward your message over to him and hopefully he can help you with the
specifics..

Don



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!mr.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: "robert J. Mac Culloch" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Indoor Antenna Design
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:58:01 -0700
Organization: mcf
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cust25.max74.los-angeles.ca.ms.uu.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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An indoor loop is a good indoor antenna,just string it around the corner
of the rooms of the int ire house or apartment,I think you are going to
have trouble with the 80m and the 160m but you can probably get 40m and
20 m and 15m and 10m with no problem,but the way these fringies squawk
about there TV recipition,it is not worth the hassle in southern
California,somebody may pull a gun,that is how crazy they are,I just
operate a handitalkie,that should not bug them too much WB6mcf
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment "tape" antenna
Date: 24 Nov 1996 18:07:20 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

You could try the twin-lead j-pole, but I don't know if it's
dual-bandable.  I used one for 2 meters when I lived in an apt.  Worked
pretty good, too.

73--Alan


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:07 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!piglet.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (KB5ELV)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Butternut Vertical
Date: 24 Nov 1996 12:47:35 -0600
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <57a587$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.cc.utexas.edu


Hi all,

I inherited a Butternut 80-10-meter vertical..not sure of the model
though. Needs cleaning up, but all the parts are there. It was in storage
for a while...

Anyway, I'm wondering about putting the thing somewhere. I live in an
apartment, on the second floor. My landlords are pretty much of the "You
pay your rent on time, we don't care what you do" philosophy, for the most
part...Anyone have suggestions as to where to put this antenna? I was
thinking roof- or balcony. Ground mounted isn't much of an option, as
there's not a lot of space to put it and lay out radials...not to mention
the fact that there are little kids all over the place. Anyone have
suggestions/advice? I haven't worked much with vertical antennas...mostly
wire dipoles...so I'm not really sure about what to do with this thing,
and there's nowhere to string wires really.

Thanks much.

--Buddy


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 19:18:32 GMT
Organization: Texas Networking, Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <57a3vj$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <55remb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dnet01-30.sat.texas.net
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[e-mail] (tyler) wrote:

>This is really getting off topic, but I couldn't resist:
>What's the difference between a dead dog on the road and a dead lawer on the
>road?

>There are skid marks in front of the dog!
>Tyler

and to get further out of hand-

there are three differences between lawyers and lab rats:

1) lawyers reproduce faster than rats
2)lawyers will do things that rats refuse  to do
3)  unlike rats,  if you experiment on lawyers, the staff doesnt get
attached to them



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:08 1996
From: [e-mail] (Dr. Gar Won Ko)
Subject: Ham Station FOR SALE
Date: 24 Nov 96 11:54:16 -0800
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!tezcat!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 4

Text Listing of a Ham Station is available and can be sent via an
e-mail reply. Dr. Gar Ko, Wichita, N(zero)EQS
E-Mail Add:  [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.interport.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 20:32:02 GMT
Organization: Interport Communications Corp.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <579irt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ccsys.port.net
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On 24 Nov 1996 13:33:49 GMT, [e-mail] (Erik Finskas)
wrote:

>So if there is a source for rubber duckies with SMA-connector, please give
>me a pointer through email!

Most of the newer Motorola portables use the SMA connector.  Check
with anyone selling accessories for Motorola HT's.

Andrew
N2CBU


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:10 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony S. Pelliccio)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 24 Nov 1996 15:47:06 -0500
Organization: Ideamation, Inc.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <57ac8a$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: anomaly.ideamation.com
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31986 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20283 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1398 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42950 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21384 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118795 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43441 rec.radio.amateur.space:8903

In article <57a3vj$[e-mail]>, Dave <[e-mail]> wrote:

>1) lawyers reproduce faster than rats
>2)lawyers will do things that rats refuse  to do
>3)  unlike rats,  if you experiment on lawyers, the staff doesnt get
>attached to them
>
For some absolutely hysterical lawyer jokes surf on over to
http://cartalk.com and look for the picture of a shark with a tie on. Click
on it and be launched into a sampling of NOLO Press' favorite lawyer jokes.

Tony


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Ron Klein )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: hy-gain 18hts vertical
Date: 24 Nov 1996 21:05:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <57ada0$[e-mail]>
References: <572l2h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftc-co1-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Nov 24  3:05:04 PM CST 1996

In <572l2h$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (james
flanagan) writes:
>
>I have used a butternut vertical for the past 10 years and it's about
time to replace it.  Has anyone used the hy-gain 18HTS vertical, and if
so how would compare it to the butternut???

I can't speak to the Butternut, but I have 2 Hytowers in a phased array
on 75. In that configuration they do well. I also have one switchable
as a standalone vertical. It is fairly broadband.

I would recommend them, especially if you have room for a decent radial
field under them.

73,

Ron - W0OSK
--
Ron Klein
---------
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (MikeH)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Rutland Arrays
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:33:37 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 8
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.228.74.117
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

I am looking for any info regarding what happened to Rutland Arrays. I
know that Tom Rutland (K3IPW) passed away in 1995 and the company was
bought by a gentleman in VA. I would like to know if this company is
still in business
\
Thank You,

Mike Hess


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Mike Hess)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Rutland Arrays
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:41:41 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 8
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.228.74.117
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

I Am looking for any information Re: Rutland Arrays, I know that Tom
Rutland (K3IPW) passed away in 1995, and that the company was bought
by a gentleman in Virginia. I haven't heard anything about the company
since.

Thank You for any help you might be able to provide

Mike Hess


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!agate!nntpfeed.doc.ic.ac.uk!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!redwood.shu.ac.uk!news
From: Mark Pettigrew <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:50:07 +0000
Organization: Sheffield Hallam University
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <579irt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-30.shu.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
To: Erik Finskas <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42927 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31974

Erik Finskas wrote:
>
> The FT-50's antenna works well, but it is not so sensitive at outbands
> VHF, nor UHF and it is bit too long for FT-50...
>
> So if there is a source for rubber duckies with SMA-connector, please give
> me a pointer through email!
>

Also Comet SMA-3, which I know is in the Ham Radio Outlet catalogue.
Haven't tried it yet, but hope to.

Mark
G0WLR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:14 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!demos!solace!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!crunch.Telcel.net.VE!newsmasters
From: Alberto J Solorzano L <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: R7000+???....
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 19:01:32 -0400
Organization: WEIDOCA, C.A.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.48.40.180
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)

Hello everybody...
If you know something about the antenna CUSHCRAFT 7000+ please let me
know.
Thank you.
73 de Alberto (YV6ERA)



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!demos!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!elmer.sna.com!not-for-mail
From: "Isaac Bentley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: 24 Nov 1996 23:07:44 GMT
Organization: Internet Network Technologies, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <01bbda5c$4b561640$8216d3cf@painting>
References: <579irt$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.211.22.130
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42947 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31985

I had bought the Comet last week and I like it. Most of the improvment is
in the 2M band. On my Yaesu FT-50R my S meter goes up about two or three
dots. Hope this helps.
--

     Isaac Bentley
 [e-mail]

Mark Pettigrew <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<[e-mail]>...
> Erik Finskas wrote:
> >
> > The FT-50's antenna works well, but it is not so sensitive at outbands
> > VHF, nor UHF and it is bit too long for FT-50...
> >
> > So if there is a source for rubber duckies with SMA-connector, please
give
> > me a pointer through email!
> >
>
> Also Comet SMA-3, which I know is in the Ham Radio Outlet catalogue.
> Haven't tried it yet, but hope to.
>
> Mark
> G0WLR
>


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cushcraft Antenna
Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:07:43 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Gary,
I have an old cushcraft antenna:  ATB-34 to be exact. I too experienced
the same problem.  I had rebuilt the traps and instead of using the trap
covers, I just put shrink tubing around them and remounted.
Well.......... water got inside and it was a disaster.  I had to pay a
fortune to Cushcraft and buy all new trap covers and caps.  I have just
finished that part.  I also rewired each trap with new coax and boy, was
that a job.  Anyway, I can't offer a solution to your question, but
hopefully the Cushcraft people have been able to help some. I would be
curious to know about the responses you receive on testing those traps.  I
just used a meter to check the continuity.
Good luck. [e-mail].
KS4YX


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:13:05 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56bbdj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

I was skeptical about the A-99.  A ham buddy sneaked over and put one on
my tower while I was out of town for a couple of days.  He changed the
coax to feed it from my 10 meter beam.  Man, I worked everything this side
of Egypt before I realized what he had done.  I dared him to take it down!
 I simply bought him a new one $49.00 I think.  I use it for 10 and 20
meters and have not had the first moments problems.  I get excellent
signal reports too.  Here is a low cost antenna that gets results.  Cut
off 7 1/4" from the CB (Cuss) Solacon, and you have an A-99 without the
$100 price. Good luck.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:18 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!viper.shadow.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (cRiTTa66)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: suggestions for a vertical VHF/UHF base antenna
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 00:52:23 GMT
Organization: iNdependent
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <3298eccb.2347869@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-mia-28.shadow.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42941 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31980

Im looking for something like the Cushcraft AR-270b  with some good
gain.
it has to be dual band and the price sould be around $100


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Gerald Crenshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,
Subject: Need an Article for a Newsletter?????
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 19:34:31 -0600
Organization: INTERNET AMERICA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal31-15.ppp.iadfw.net
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31983 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42946 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21382 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118793 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43439 rec.radio.amateur.space:8902

Hi,
  Name here is Gerry (WD4BIS) and I have been writing a column for our
club newsletter called "New Ham Partner". With the influx of No Code
Technicians on the repeater, asking the same kinds of questions I asked 20
years ago, I have been trying to answer them.
   Some of the articles are technical, some of them are general
information, but they all address subjects that our new friends are
struggling with.

I have set up a web page for these articles. On this page, I will place
the columns I have already published in past issues of our newsletter.
Doing this on a web page has advantages, the big one being that the
articles wont expire in a newsgroup, I can edit old ones or add new
columns as write them, and I wont have to send re-posts.

The Cost... I will ask that you do not edit the articles, and use my
by-line. If you use them, send me an E-mail and let me know when and
where. If you have a spare stamp mail me a copy of your newsletter to the
address on the page.

Where...  http://web2.airmail.net/gerryc/newham.html

Please bear in mind this site is still under construction and not all of
them are there yet, but they soon will be. (I have Thanksgiving week off)

73's

Gerry Crenshaw


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:21 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!xmission!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!waldorf.csc.calpoly.edu!isnews.csc.calpoly.edu!violin.aix.calpoly.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Kirk James Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: 24 Nov 1996 18:29:01 -0800
Organization: Biological Sciences Department, Cal Poly SLO
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <57b09d$[e-mail]>
References: <579irt$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <01bbda5c$4b561640$8216d3cf@painting>
NNTP-Posting-Host: violin.aix.calpoly.edu
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42967 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31990

The Motorola antennas will NOT work with the Yaesu...they are SMA (as on
the Visar), but they are male instead of female...

I rather like the Icom FA-S270A, is small (about 3") and works great on
440..  2m performance isn't as good as the stock antenna, but if you're
working strong repeaters or close-in simplex, it'll be fine.  Price is
right, too, $18 from Icom parts.


--
 Kirk J. Smith, KD6RCT, EMT-P    |  Biological Sciences Dept, Microbiology
 [e-mail]    |  California Polytechnic State University
 http://www.calpoly.edu/~kjsmith |  San Luis Obispo, California, USA


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:22 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!demos!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: DDRR
Date: 25 Nov 96 02:44:27 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


re: Deluxe Dual Ring Resonator (DDRR)

While watching Star Trek: First Contact, did anyone else notice the
tower in the background of the Alaska scene?

Description: What I noticed was a tower, approximately 70 feet high,
isolated from ground.  It had two rings on it which may or may not
have been radiators.  One ring was about 50 feet high, and roughly 30
feet in diameter.  The second ring was above it about 10 feet,
diameter roughly 20 feet.  Below the bottom ring and attached to it
was an inverted wire cone, which if a classic DDRR, is the actual
radiating portion.

Does this antenna exist? I suspect that it was constructed for visual
impact only, but it is very close to a dual ring beam concept that I
have thought about occasionally.  If a second ring is 1/4 wavelength
radius away, should this not compress the vertical radiation down
toward the horizon in more of a donut fashion?  My design was only
the dual rings, not inclusive of the inverted discone.  Food for
thought.


IBCNU

Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!demos!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: 25 Nov 1996 03:33:01 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

 Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
From: [e-mail]
Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:13:05 GMT
>Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

>I was skeptical about the A-99.  A ham buddy sneaked over and put one on
>my tower while I was out of town for a couple of days.  He changed the
>coax to feed it from my 10 meter beam.  Man, I worked everything this
side
>of Egypt before I realized what he had done.  I dared him to take it
down!
> I simply bought him a new one $49.00 I think.  I use it for 10 and 20
>meters and have not had the first moments problems.  I get excellent
>signal reports too.  Here is a low cost antenna that gets results.  Cut
>off 7 1/4" from the CB (Cuss) Solacon, and you have an A-99 without the
>$100 price. Good luck.

Hey, and its not even April 1st. Are you also in the market for some
swampland..
I also have a problem parsing the A-99 for 49.00 in line 5 and the A-99
for 100.00 in line 9.

Did you wonder why turning the rotor had no effect on signal strength or
did you buddy install it horizonally on the rotor? I tried cutting 18" off
a 102" whip and it had trouble receiving German, English was OK.. Have
fun.. CUL
N0ISL/UA4LIS/UB5WJD...... 73 :>)
John Douglas, N0ISL
AX.25 N0ISL@KZ7I.#MSP.MN.USA.NOAM
I'm in Minnesota only because I must be somewhere!


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:25 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!freenet.vcu.edu!saturn.vcu.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jimmie S Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need design for 900 MHz SS Cordless phone
Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:55:50 -0500
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57bcd6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.vcu.edu


I have just bought one of those new 900 MHz Spread Spectrum cordless
telephones... it has a range of over two blocks and outstanding audio
quality. I would like to extend its range even furthur by building or
buying a better antenna for the base unit. The current antenna is a
little 5 inch rod antenna.... I was thinking that perhaps a colinear
phased design might improve the range. Does anyone know of a design,
or of a source for commercial aftermarket antennas?



                             Robert S. Williams
                             [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:26 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.mcn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dan K6MHE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 06:00:29 GMT
Organization: Mendocino Community Network
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbd4e8$88b9cdc0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm2-men-a15.mcn.org
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

On 17 Nov 1996 16:21:24 GMT, "Jorge E. Forero M."
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>I need info about the AEA antenna loop, do you have one of this?
>Is better like a simple dipolo?
>Can you tell me?
>Thanks in advance...
>Jorge
>YV6EDA
>[e-mail]
>
According the the lastest news letters AEA has gone out of business.
So I guess the their loop antenna will no longer be on the markert.

Danny, K6MHE


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!blv-pm101-ip13.halcyon.com!user
From: [e-mail] (David Kay)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS: Like New HF Station Accessories
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:05:37 -0800
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm101-ip13.halcyon.com

     I'm getting out of HF.  This station is less than one year old.
Equipment is like new - perfect appearance, function and rarely used.
Original boxes and instructions (newly faxed in case of M-840)

                             New Price             Your Price

 MC-60 Mike                    $139.95              $85 + shipping COD
   Has preamp and up, down.


 Palomar M-840 LCD SWR Meter    $190.00            $115 + shipping COD
   Lew McCoy of CQ recommends.
Makes
   tuneup easy. Two vertical bars
that
   show SWR and power simultaneously.

 Bencher  RJ-1  Hand Key Black   $74.95             $50 + shipping COD
   Never used for QSO

         YA-1  Lo Pass Filter   $59.95              $45 + shipping COD



                     Please contact Dave Kay,

                              AB7FV

              at  [e-mail]  or [phone]


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 25 Nov 1996 11:57:13 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57671j$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Roy--

I don't gamble. Say, which antenna is it?

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need design for 900 MHz SS Cordless phone
Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:11:52 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57bcd6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi There--

There are lots of options, all illegal. Your unlicensed 900 MHz cordless
meets specs for ERP and pattern which are not to be exceeded. It is rare
when a manufacturer goes UNDER those limits. (Don't we ALL wish :-])

On the other hand, placing the base over a metal surface--such as file
cabinet or table -- might give you lower launch angle towards horizon and
thus some effective gain (especially if its a monopole)

73
Chip N1IR.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:29 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infinet.com!freenet.columbus.oh.us!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CTHA
Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:19:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <570v0s$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Roy--

I thought you WERE clear. Everyone appreciates you trying to get him on
here.

73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:54:21 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

RE: Comments on Loops

That is 'good RX; bad TX".

This is incorrect. Through the principle of reciprocity the small loop is
EQUALLY as bad OR as good in either case. If you add black boxes to the
data stream well, that's not the antenna, is it?

Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop... (2 msgs)"
Date: 25 Nov 96 13:50:07 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help  antenna in the power lines !!!!!"
Date: 25 Nov 96 13:50:13 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "antenna" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:32 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tezcat!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!jump.net!grunt.dejanews.com
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:51:08 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: TSPBIB - Traveling Salesman Problem On-line bibliography
Newsgroups: sci.math,sci.opt-research,comp.ai.genetic,comp.ai.neural-nets,comp.lang.c,comp.theory,alt.life.universe.everything,comp.ai,sci.crypt,sci.fractals,alt.cracks,comp.graphics.algorithms,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.nonlinear,alt.fractal-design
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
To: [e-mail]
X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Nov 25 13:40:45 1996 GMT
X-Originating-IP-Addr: 143.106.12.175 (corona.densis.fee.unicamp.br)
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m)
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Lines: 28
Xref: news1.epix.net sci.math:177784 comp.ai.genetic:10450 comp.ai.neural-nets:34978 comp.lang.c:217002 comp.theory:17591 alt.life.universe.everything:6664 comp.ai:42315 sci.crypt:59015 sci.fractals:10417 alt.cracks:227201 comp.graphics.algorithms:40667 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31997 sci.nonlinear:6651

I maintain a home page dedicated to the Traveling Salesman
Problem at

http://www.ing.unlp.edu.ar/cetad/mos/TSPBIB_home.html

The list intends to be a comprehensive archive on papers, source
code and references to instances of the TSP available for
public domain on the Web.

I am looking for other papers not yet included in this list. If you
know of any paper not yet included, please send me email and
I will include the missing pointers.

I also have a page on fractal instances of the TSP available
from my home page.

http://www.ing.unlp.edu.ar/cetad/mos/FRACTAL_TSP_home.html

I would certainly appreciate if you can forward this message to
other related newsgroups and colleagues.

Pablo Moscato
http://www.ing.unlp.edu.ar/cetad/mos

[e-mail]

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:33 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 25 Nov 1996 14:11:48 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>
>You are ABSOLUTELY incorrect. You're posting clearly states LOADING for
>the LOOP ONLY. I wasn't the only Ph.D. here to follow your posts this
>time, Tom. Furthermore, in your responses to the 2 other posts on the
'H',
>you failed to mention ANY LOADING despite my explicit QUERY on that
>regard.  There is no way my queries could have been misinterpreted,
>ignored, what have you.

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

Chip wrote:
>>The 'H' antenna you describe sounds like an antenna I modelled in Sept.
>>Its a dipole (center fed) with length 1/8 wave with end 'caps' each 1/8
>>wave, center attached. In other words, an end-capped dipole, as I
alluded
>>to as a possibility for you to try.  At 14 MHz, with copper losses, wire
>>width 0.002 waves, I actually get slightly higher FS, about 1.8dBi
>>broadside. However, this is STILL NOT a -resonant--antenna at the
>>frequency corresponding to the 1/8 wave dimensions. It needs additional
>>loading, presumably coils, to get it to resonance. Indeed, the presence
>of
>>additional loads degrades the FS by at least 1/2 dBi at this HF
>frequency;
>>substantially more at microwave. Also, the width is pretty big for the
>>wire, and thinner wire might apply better, with worse results.

Tom replied in reference to the above:

>No, the key is to increase end capacitance, by fanning the wires, making
a
>cage, or increasing wire size at the ends. In honor of Rick I call this a
>road-kill diskpole.
>
>Here's where we have to be careful.
>
>When modeled with #2 wires, and four wires at the outer ends spread about
>two feet at the outer ends, coil Q's of 300, and 11 segments in the wires
>the darned thing came out with 2.25 dBi in freespace with 2% BW at 2:1
>vswr.
>
>When modeled with many segments gain drops to 1.49 dBi with coil Q's of
>300, this is almost independent of coil placement in the radiating area.

Of course the LOOP is very critical of coil placement, but the H is not so
long as it is somewhere in the radiating wire.

Then I spoke of your folded dipole fractal the MI2, wondering how you
modeled it.

>I
>suspect your MI2 fractal is a partial victim of these changes, since
>segment changes that give no warning change the gain at times. When I
>model it with copper loss and many segments I got 1.31 dBi but much less
>BW, only >.3%.

I think you need a remedial reading class, right after you take your class
on manners.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:35 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 25 Nov 1996 14:11:50 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader


Hi Chip,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>Pse explain: you say isoloop was 10-12 dB down BUT signal reports
>consistently were equivalent. Your implication was: 1) the QSO'er
couldn't
>notice a 10dB difference; 2) they were lying to you; 3) a combination of
>both.

I probably wasn't clear enough in my writing. Look at the last sentence in
my description again. I said:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>>In on the air tests, with a dipole at 50 ft and the AEA loop at 50 ft,
>>dozens of stations I worked said the signal was exactly equal from the
>>loop and the broadside dipole (when I ran 8 watts in the dipole and 100
in
>>the loop).

Let's see what that power ratio was:
100/8 log10 = 10.97 dB

Seems to me that agrees OK with the FSM.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that's very very good for a small antenna,
but it sure isn't what I call efficient. An efficent loop could be built
by brazing a vacuum cap across the open end and using copper pipe (with no
joints), but it would be hard to build and expensive. A small loop antenna
isn't going  to be efficient unless the conductor is smooth, round, and
devoid of pressure connections. The capacitor has to be as dense as
possible to make its' internal inductance and resistive losses low. If the
self inductance of the capacitor is high bandwidth decreases while
efficiency decreases.

That's an important phenomena, spreading unnecessary inductance and
capacitance around in the system can decrease both BW and efficiency, so a
narrower BW antenna can be less efficient than a wider BW antenna of
similar dimensions.

On the subject of honest reports, Hams should always watch tones as well
as strength. The tone was less than T-9 on that last transmission. Ur RST
515.  :-)
.
73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:35 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!news.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile antenna mounting advice
Date: 25 Nov 1996 14:34:42 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56dtas$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Rick,

I wonder if you've ruled out mounting it to the side of the vehicle,
either to the side of the cab (involves removing interior panels) or the
side of the box (involves removal of bedliner)?

I operate HF-mobile from my Chevrolet Van. The antenna is a Hustler
mounted to the side of the van between the windows. An insulated bracket
beneath the drip rail provides additional lateral support. The Hustler,
you may already know, has a fold-over feature that is helpful when getting
through places with low overhangs (tree lined streets, drive-through
windows etc.).

Good luck
Val  N8OEF



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:36 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!comp.vuw.ac.nz!canterbury.ac.nz!queeg
From: [e-mail] (Dave Ingram)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 15:02:57 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57ad56$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <571jie$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: queeg.elec.canterbury.ac.nz
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:118792 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:42944 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:31982

In article <571jie$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>I have seen Ski Patrol personnel use a nylon harness rig that holds
>their radios up on their chest, just below the chin.  The radio is
>held in place by velcro strips.   The harness of course goes over the
>sholders and crosses in the back so everything is secure.   When they
>want to talk they lower their mouth down and speak.  The radio is
>close enough so they can hear.  Of course they have to use their hand
>to press the PTT button.

This is very similar to the mounting method that cycle couriers use here for
their radios. I stick my ht in a pocket in the side of my bag at the moment
with a 5/8-1/4 antenna on it. A gellcell in the back adds some omph!

>I do not like the little bug speaker/mic that fits into your ear.  I
>have use some and it always seems it falls out or the wire going up to
>it gets caught in clothing and is pulled out, or you move your head
>and once again it is dislodged.  If there is a headset/boom mic
>arrangement, I think it would be better.

I am still looking for a headset that fits comfortably under my helmet (which
are required by law in NZ; not wearing one can cost $80 and is stupid to
boot!). I have had limited success with a throat mike and earpiece. I made an
extended PTT that was attached to the handle bars.

>I am lead to believe that you need an external antenna on your bike
>and the rubber duck would not reach out the way you wanted.  I have
>mounted a 1/4 mag mount on the bike rack that fits over the rear
>wheel.

I have made a mount that bolts onto the bike frame down at the rear axel
(since the frame is rather tough there). I have a 5/8 that I want to try, but
as some people have suggested, a 1/2 may be better.


Dave, ZL3TDI



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:37 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 25 Nov 1996 15:27:04 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Chip Said:

"You are ABSOLUTELY incorrect. You're posting clearly states LOADING for
the LOOP ONLY. I wasn't the only Ph.D. here to follow your posts this
time, Tom. Furthermore, in your responses to the 2 other posts on the 'H',
you failed to mention ANY LOADING despite my explicit QUERY on that
regard.  There is no way my queries could have been misinterpreted,
ignored, what have you.

You are either prevaricating or being sophistic. Go fish somewhere else."

My Reply:

Once again, we're getting off issue.  Regardless of who said what, when I
set this exercise up, I don't recall stating that lumped loading be
omitted as an option.  Wouldn't it be better to omit the verbal Kung Foo,
reset, and do the exercise?


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:38 1996
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From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help aea loop... (2 msgs)"
Date: 25 Nov 96 15:42:56 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "aea" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:39 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 08:27:53 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57294g$[e-mail]> <572vkg$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
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Roy Lewallen wrote:
> So I'm afraid that any simplified view of Yagi operation, involving how
> long the elements should be or where they should be located, is likely to
> lead to wrong conclusions.

Hi Roy, here's my simple-minded view of the two-equal-element antenna
with one driven and the other parasitic. Elements are 34 ft long
separated by 8 ft, 40 ft above an Arizona type ground.

Just below 14.064 the antenna system is capacitive, the elements are
too short and the parasitic element acts like a director.

At 14.064 the antenna system is resonant and the radiation pattern is
bi-directional.

Just above 14.064 the antenna system is inductive, the elements are
too long and the parasitic element acts like a reflector.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:40 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!news
From: Monty Wilson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: HF6V high SWR on 80M
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System Administrator)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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[e-mail] (Roland Stiner) wrote:
>
> >I am not sure exactly what the lowest SWR should be, but the fact that
> >you have a narrow band of low SWR  is a good sign, Jack. It indicates
> >you have reduced the other losses in the antenna system to a low
> >level.
>
>F>You would need to worry if you had a wide frequency band of low SWR
> >response, which would really be a sign that the other losses (which
> >are constant with changing frequency) are predominating.  Sounds a
> >little strange, doesn't it?
>
>I have the HF6V and the bandwidth is very narrow on that band.

Exactly HOW narrow, of course, depends on the portion of 80 you're
going for.  At the bottom of the band, the 2.5:1 points are only about
60 kHz apart, but at the upper end of 75m, you can get about 150 kHz
between 2.5:1 points.

73

--
.........Monty.
mwilson @ flex.net (with spaces deleted)




From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (William L. Fuqua III)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: PRO-67C
Date: 25 Nov 96 17:42:33 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


   I'm sort of new to this net. Been away for a long time.
However I would like to know if there had been any discussions
on the Mosley PRO-67C antenna. I'm mostly interested in the
settings of the lengths of the 40 Meter elements VS. height and
20 meter settings code I, II and III.

73
Bill wa4lav

  William L. Fuqua III  P.E.  E-mail [e-mail]  Phone [phone]
5
  Department of Physics and Astronomy      CP-177 Chem. Phys. Bldg.
  University of Kentucky ,                 Lexington, Ky 40506-0055





From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W T Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: "All-Band" Dipoles
Date: 25 Nov 1996 18:46:53 GMT
Organization: Another Netscape News Server User
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <wtshaw-2511961352300001@207.17.188.107>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.17.188.107

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stephen Lui) wrote:

> My attic is fairly large (60' x 20'), so I was
> thinking about putting up something there. I could put up a dipole on
the roof,
> but it would probably extend to my neigbors' units.

With such a nice attic space, you could easily put up a dipole and
concentrate on one or two bands with ease, especially for higher
frequencies.  60' is so close to what you need for 40 meters that I am
sure that you could let the ends hang down to make up for the missing
length.  Besides, a 40 meter dipole is resonant on odd harmonics, like 15
meters.  Get something going, take good notes, then experiment with
changes.
>
> I also don't know if I can find anything on the roof to anchor a >20' vertic
al
> anyways.You might try building a saddle out of wood or rebar that would
straddle the apex, and extend a couple of feet or more down the roof on
both sides.  A welded version would look like an inverted butterfly with
its wings at an appropriate angle.   Pad it and just sit it on the roof.
The weight alone should hold it in place, or it could be tied down with
lines along the roof to the edges, no hole in the roof is necessary.  Use
plastic guys for the vert. element.

Bill, k5pcw

>
> Stephen
> AC6YK
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
 Orpnhfr gur yrnfg ovg bs rapelcgvba frrzf
 zlfgvslvat gb zbfg, zbfg pbzcyrk sbezf frrz
   gbgnyyl haarprffnel gb gur fnzr sbyxf.
          http://www.htcomp.net/wts/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:44 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!treasure.coastalnet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Prescott)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Dual Rhombic
Date: 25 Nov 1996 18:56:02 GMT
Organization: The Unorganization
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <57cq42$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm-nb1-56.coastalnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

Did anyone see the dual rhombic for UHF in Dec. QST. The measured gain
was somewhere around 17(not sure if dbd or dbi). Does anyone have plans
for this? I'd like to build one for 2mtrs and 6mtrs.

73
Mark Prescott
KE4LWP



From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:45 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ix.netcom.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!news.dp.beckman.com!inet.dp.beckman.com!newsmaster
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: R7000+???....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Don Labriola <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:01:19 -0800
Reply-To: [e-mail]
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: DDC, Beckman Instruments, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.217.101.126
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To: [e-mail]
Lines: 20

Alberto J Solorzano L wrote:
>
> Hello everybody...
> If you know something about the antenna CUSHCRAFT 7000+ please let me
> know.
> Thank you.
> 73 de Alberto (YV6ERA)
Ablerto,

Got one up recently. It seems to be able to match in through the
auto-tuner in a Kenwood TS-690 (<3:1 is the spec) over all of the bands
except for the 80 meter piece. This is limited to about 1/2 of the band
-- according to what segement you have tuned it for. The construction
looks excellent, and it went together in about 1/4 to time it took to
put together an R-7. It also appears to be MUCH more rugged than the
R-7. We have it installed fairly low on an emergency communication
trailer , so the ability to mount it low to the ground has indeed been
tested!

73's de W6QS - Don


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:46 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 13:45:13 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <572fia$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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John wrote:
> I disagree with the comments on antennas.

Hi John, those weren't exactly comments. Jesse, W6KKT, runs the infamous
California mobile shootout every year. His report is about *accurately
measured* results for 75m mobile far fields.

> I find it (hamstick) ... the equal or
> better than the hustler especialy on the higher bands.

*In this case*, it's easy to compare. Which has the most bandwidth?
Which ever it is, that's the one with the lowest 'Q' and therefore
the most losses. Of course, 'Q' is moot on 10m where each antenna
is almost a quarter-wave to start with. You might find a band where
those metal end plates on the Hustler coil render it worse than a
hamstick, but I doubt it. The only thing I've seen worse than a
Hamstick is an 8 ft whip with autotuner or remote tuner. W6KKT has
the proof in his years of measurements.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Mon Nov 25 18:44:47 1996
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From: John <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:24:29 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <572fia$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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CC: [e-mail]

W6KKT Jesse wrote:
>
> On Thu, 21 Nov 96 20:00:51 GMT, [e-mail] (Tim Smith) wrote:
>
> >Any opinions on the Hamstick mobile antennas?  Are these the standard 3/8"
> >threaded mount?  How do these compare with Hustler?
> >
> Hi Tim, on 75 meters the Hamstick: -10db  compared to Bugcatcher,
> -7db screwdriver, -5 to a Hustler.  In my opinion, the "screwdriver"
> t;ype is a excellent multi band compromise.
> 73, Jesse, W6KKT


I disagree with the comments on antennas.  I have been using a hamstick
clone for some time on several bands.  I find it to not be the match of
a bug catcher on 80 and 40 ( down an S unit or so) but the equal or
better than the hustler especialy on the higher bands. Providing of
course you take the time to really match the antenna (not just use a
tuner). I would used additional capactance at the base (silver mica) on
(80 and 40 on a bumper mount) and get SWR easliy under 1.5 to 1 at
resonance. The value need depends on your setup (anywhere for 100 to 600
pf) I got very good signal reports on 40m mobile with no tuner and a
TS-140S for several years. ( and you do not need any fishing line to guy
it!!)

John / W8JX


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:28:55 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: New Bedford High School -- New Bedford, MA USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nbhs1.newbedford.k12.ma.us
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Nov 96 20:19:57 GMT
Lines: 21
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32032 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:712 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20311 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43042 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118865 rec.radio.amateur.space:8914

In article <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]@smtp-news2.i
bm.net writes:
>In <[e-mail]>, Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> writes:
>>R. A. Green wrote:
>>>
>>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>>> >adam turner
>>> >[e-mail]
>>> >
>>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>>>
>>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
>>
>>Tube type hand held?
>
>  Sure, those 90 volt B batterys are getting a little long in the tooth :-(=)

>
>                                                                Jim



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:28:56 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!206.58.0.35!news.structured.net!nntp.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx03-14
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Self-resonance in loops
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 02:26:35 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <57b05g$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx03-14.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:

> . . .There is nothing
>wrong with loops larger than small loops - they just don't obey
>the same equations. . .

They do obey the same equations. However, simplifications and
approximations to these equations which are reasonably accurate for small
loops aren't accurate for large ones.

I'm sure this is what Cecil meant, but want to dispel a possible
misunderstanding.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:28:59 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!206.58.0.35!news.structured.net!nntp.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx03-14
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Underwater Radials
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 02:36:23 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <57b0nt$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx03-14.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Jeff Hutchinson <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I have just mounted a Butternut vertical antenna on a post about two
>feet above the salt water in a canal in my backyard.  I attached radials
>for 40m, 30m, and 20m, and, for lack of any better place to put them, I
>submerged them in the salt water to a depth of about four feet.  Can
>anyone comment on what sort of performance I can expect from this
>antenna?  Should I put in a copper/brass grounding plate, right under
>the antenna, and forget about the radials?  (The radials were cut from
>some junk coax.)
>Many of the articles that include projections of vertical antenna
>radiation angles use propogation over salt water as a baseline, but none
>I have read mention how to best couple the ground side of the antenna
>system to the salt water.
>Thanks for any assistance.
>73,
>Jeff W4PBC
>

I see two problems with the setup. First, salt water eats copper very
quickly. Secondly, there will be almost no RF current flowing 4 feet deep,
so the radials won't do much good. I'd put them as close to the surface as
possible. And make them out of something that won't dissolve so fast. In
the directions that you have salt water for several hundred feet from the
antenna, you'll have very strong low angle radiation.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:00 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!ns1.aplatform.com!pagesat.net!hermes.rdrop.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Chuck Forsberg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: tried that 2M old TV antenna beam out?
Date: 25 Nov 1996 10:39:45 GMT
Organization: RainDrop Laboratories/Agora(sm), Portland, Oregon
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <57bt1h$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agora.rdrop.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
Helene Maxwell <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Has anyone built and measured the effectiveness of the 2 meter antenna
>out of an old TV antenna discussed in the recent issue of QST?
>I'm about to do this and am wondering if you've come up with any
>improvements to the design (I'm not planning to do the hairpin)

I once made a 2m beam out of a channel 2 Yagi.  It was very directive.
In general, the longer the beam the more gain it will give.


Once I made an FM beam out of AL tape elements strung up in an attic.
This was a very long antenna, 50 feet or more.  At the frequency it
was cut for (WFMT) it gave enough boost over a 5 el to nearly make
good the loss in s/n when going to stereo.

As I recall I used Orr's VHF handbook to figure the element lengths.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX     [e-mail]     http://www.omen.com
   Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software"
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, RZ, SZ, Pro-YAM, ZCOMM, GSZ, and DSZ
TeleGodzilla BBS: 503-617-1698  FTP: ftp.cs.pdx.edu pub/zmodem
POB 4681 Portland OR 97208     503-614-0430   FAX:[phone]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL LOOPS
Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:03:20 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Tom--

You are ABSOLUTELY incorrect. You're posting clearly states LOADING for
the LOOP ONLY. I wasn't the only Ph.D. here to follow your posts this
time, Tom. Furthermore, in your responses to the 2 other posts on the 'H',
you failed to mention ANY LOADING despite my explicit QUERY on that
regard.  There is no way my queries could have been misinterpreted,
ignored, what have you.

You are either prevaricating or being sophistic. Go fish somewhere else.

Chip


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news1.iamerica.net!news
From: Don Brosseau <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 Meter Spiralray ???
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 09:12:45 -0600
Organization: LDS I-America
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.22.211.35
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)

This is Don AC5IM...I am looking for information about a antenna
which was sold in the late 1950's. This was a 2 Meter Yagi
design which skewed elements and worked equally well in all
polarities. I hope to construct it if I can find information.
Thanks for reading this.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-15.sprintlink.net!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Indoor Antenna Design
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 08:35:58 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: camoore-desk.ch.intel.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; I)

robert J. Mac Culloch wrote:
> An indoor loop is a good indoor antenna,just string it around the corner
> of the rooms of the int ire house or apartment,

Hi Robert, wonder if this configuration will meet the new FCC radiation
rules at any power higher than QRP?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!206.58.0.35!news.structured.net!nntp.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx12-25
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 17:41:53 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <57clpm$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx12-25.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] wrote:
>RE: Comments on Loops
>
>That is 'good RX; bad TX".
>
>This is incorrect. Through the principle of reciprocity the small loop is
>EQUALLY as bad OR as good in either case. If you add black boxes to the
>data stream well, that's not the antenna, is it?
>
>Chip N1IR

Although reciprocity does of course apply to antennas, at HF a given
antenna can improve the S/N ratio much more when receiving than
transmitting. This is because the majority of the noise is injected into
the system not at the receiver front end, as at VHF and above, but by the
atmosphere. So an antenna that rejects local noise at the expense of say, a
10 or 20 dB loss, can make a vast improvement in S/N ratio at the receiving
site. It would, however, decrease the S/N ratio at the other end compared
to a more efficient antenna. So the effect of a black box in the data
stream depends on where the black box is inserted relative to the noise
source.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!oronet!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: suggestions for a vertical VHF/UHF base antenna
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 17:45:23 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57cm1q$[e-mail]>
References: <3298eccb.2347869@news>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43034 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32030

[e-mail] (cRiTTa66) shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Im looking for something like the Cushcraft AR-270b  with some good
->gain.
->it has to be dual band and the price sould be around $100

CAUTION -- BLATANT COMMERCIAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS:

Look at www.rst-engr.com at the base station antenna section.  At $12.50
each, you could make eight of them for $100, not only dual band, but octal
band.

Jim

Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company -- and I'm damned proud to do so.
Grass Valley CA 95945   | Airport: O17 (Grass Valley Intentional Airpatch)
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---C-182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Comm'l/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!news-wa16.mdd.comm.mot.com!lego.wes.mot.com!mothost.mot.com!lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com!crt008
From: "RNSG Networking Information Systems" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: two new newsgroups on lmpsbbs
Date: 25 Nov 1996 19:37:47 GMT
Organization: Motorola
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <01bbdb0a$a7ec2e90$4a030191@crt008_78a0842>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crt008nt.comm.mot.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32058 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118889

Added the rec.radio.amateur.misc & rec.radio.amateur.antenna to the lmpsbbs
news server. You should see articles in the next few days.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:06 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stevef.demon.co.uk!stephen
From: Stephen John Farthing <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CFA (No I am not a crackpot)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:42:19 +0000
Organization: Ministry of Administrative Affairs
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56h03o$[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <577sr0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevef.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stevef.demon.co.uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.00 <0tbEg$MHZK+M9wdwakxIDRGahN>

G3YCC has placed details of the CFA from Sprat at

http://homepages.enterprise.net/g3ycc/

He works hard for the g-qrp community and deserves thanks.
He also recons that a company in DL also makes CFAs and they are highly
thought of. Does any one have any details?
--
Stephen John Farthing MBCS G0XAR
Melksham, Wiltshire UK
RSGB G-QRP 7766


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:07 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!duke.telepac.pt!news.telepac.pt!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Pedro Bastos)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need the scheme for a 10-15-20m or just 20m cubical quad.
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:18:15 GMT
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: por1_p6.telepac.pt
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

Need the scheme for a 10-15-20m or just 20m cubical quad.
If anybody can help I'll be very grateful.

73s de CT1FOV
Pedro Bastos



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!paulz
From: [e-mail] (Paul Zander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Aliance rotor repair
Date: 25 Nov 1996 21:03:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <57d1jb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscit.sc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

In doing some work on the antenna farm, I noticed that some
of the plastic pieces on an Aliance antenna rotor have
deterorated with age.  Of special concern is the blue ring
at the top of the motor which presumably keeps rain out of
the mechanism.

Is this indeed something I should replace, and if so,
can you suggest how to order the part.  I don't have
any of the paper work for the rotor.

73, Paul
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.nkn.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Bart Senior)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FS:  Outbacker HF Antenna. New, hardly used.  $140, KC5VUO
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 22:02:04 GMT
Organization: National Knowledge Network
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <57d4us$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.55.141.21
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

FS:  Outbacker HF Antenna. New, hardly used.  $140, KC5VUO
Sea Ya!

Bart Senior, ASA Sailing Instructor           ARS:  KC5VUO
http://www.cyberramp.net/~senior
copyright 1996



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:10 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!paulz
From: [e-mail] (Paul Zander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 26 Nov 1996 00:35:34 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <57de0m$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscit.sc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:118866 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43044 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32034

I am not so fortunate to be able to cycle every day, but I have done it
often enough to make these suggestions:

Get a J-Pole antennna.   I only operate 2 meters, but there
are dual band versions.  Unlike 1/4 wave antennas, a J-Pole does
not depend on any ground plane.  Unlike a half-wave, the feed
is at the bottom.  Mine is made from 1/4 inch al rod.  So I put
a pennant on the top and it looks like a bike flag.  I have compared
notes with other cycling hams and all agreed on the J-Pole.

I tried using the head set made by Kenwood for my HT, but it
did not fit well under my helmet.  Actually it doesn't fit all
that well on my head without a helmet either, but ...

So I went to one of the earbud mikes.  I sewed a piece of velcro to
the straps on the helmet to hold the mike pick up.  So I put the helmet
on.  Put the ear piece in, press down the velcro, and it is very secure.
Then I thread the wires inside my jersey so it is not flapping around.
My earpiece has a PTT switch which winds up near my waist and can be
locked in the "T" position.  There is also a VOX position, but I only
use it when stopped or riding slowly.  Besides the obvious problem with
breathing, all other 2 meter ops use PTT so VOX tends to confuse them.

I have tried carrying the HT in the pockets on the back of my jersey, and in
various packs on the bike.  I would like to try a handle bar bag because
it might be arranged so you can see the radio while riding.  The display
often has something useful, like frequency or low -battery.  :-)


73, Paul
[e-mail]

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Kenneth E. Harker ([e-mail]) wrote:
:      I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
: decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.  I already have a
: dual-band FM HT, but I'm interested in hearing from others about the best
: way to accomplish the rest of the setup.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!paulz
From: [e-mail] (Paul Zander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Broad band Xfmr question
Date: 26 Nov 1996 00:51:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <57dev2$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscit.sc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

One of the "details" that many hams overlook is that for a balun
to work well, the actual impedances need to be close to the design
value. In your case the antenna must really be 450 ohms, not
some dipole that is connected to a 450 ohm line.  You didn't give the
rest of you plan, so maybe this is not a problem.

Depending on the design of the balun, if the load is a lot different
from the design impedance any or all of the following will be degraded:

  Bandwidth over which the balun functions.
  balun doesn't really act as a balance to unbalanced device
  impedance ratio changes
  losses go up.

Hope these problems don't bother your installation.

73, Paul
[e-mail]

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Anikan ([e-mail]) wrote:


: Hello all. I have to make a Xfme to go from 450ohm ladder line to 52 ohm
: coax. I have the wiring layour for a 9:1 balun but have no idea of
: size/number of turns of wire. The only toroid I have on hand is a
: FT-114-61 which i think is appropriate. I will be using it for six meters
: and fairly low power - usually less than 10W maybe up to 25W.

: Anyone can help me out?? (BTW the nearest radio shop is 10hrs away so I
: can't just run out and buy the manual)

: Larry nixon



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:14 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!ralph.vnet.net!plyler
From: [e-mail] (Jon Plyler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 42 Mhz Antennas
Date: 26 Nov 1996 01:03:40 GMT
Organization: Vnet Internet Access, Inc.
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <57dflc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: plyler.vnet.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

Looking for a really GOOD home-brew antenna for VHF-Lo band, particularly 42
Mhz area. Space is limited because of apartment setting.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!holmes.sgate.com!jekyll.sgate.com!donovanf
From: Frank Donovan <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Aliance rotor repair
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:46:01 -0500
Organization: Southgate Internet Host
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57d1jb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jekyll.sgate.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <57d1jb$[e-mail]>

You can obtain parts, service or new Alliance rotors from:
Norm's Rotor Service
301-874-5885   M-F 0800-1630

73!
Frank
W3LPL
[e-mail]

On 25 Nov 1996, Paul Zander wrote:

> In doing some work on the antenna farm, I noticed that some
> of the plastic pieces on an Aliance antenna rotor have
> deterorated with age.  Of special concern is the blue ring
> at the top of the motor which presumably keeps rain out of
> the mechanism.
>
> Is this indeed something I should replace, and if so,
> can you suggest how to order the part.  I don't have
> any of the paper work for the rotor.
>
> 73, Paul



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!dobie.loop.net!news
From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS:Neumann U87Ai
Date: 26 Nov 1996 02:01:08 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57dj14$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pma3_147.loop.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:[e-mail]

I wonder if a $2000 microphone would help get DX on 20 meters?
("OK...I'm switching from the MC50 to the Neumann...how does it sound?")

-jt- WB1GFH




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: "Mark Bryant" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 26 Nov 1996 02:05:51 GMT
Organization: SOHObusiness Services
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <01bbdb3e$8e1f6ca0$a3d879a8@soho>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Have you ever gotten a nasty letter from an Irishman or black? And I and B
don't pretend that they know everything.

M


> Why is it that when you tell a 'joke' about an Irishman it is called
> tasteless; when you tell a joke about a black it is called racist, and
> when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?
>
> hmmmm
>
> cdn
>
>
>


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:17 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RE: Windoms
Date: 26 Nov 1996 02:17:25 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57djvl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Yeah, the ARRL drops the Windom from the HANDBOOK and next thing you
know, it's a no-code free-for-all with vanity calls to the highest
bidder!

The handbook is full of irrelevant, little-used antenna lore. One of my
faves is the "END-FED ZEPP". (Sounds very roaring-twenties, don't it?
Can't you picture some kid in a racoon coat signing "FB OM. RIG HR IS
FORD SPARK COIL ES ANT IS END FED ZEPP"?) I have never met anybody who
used or claimed to have used one, but I'm dying to know if the silly
thing works.


                   half wave
-----oOOo-oOOo-------------------------oOOo----
    |    |
    |    |
    |    |
  open wire feeders (of course!)


-joe WB1GFH




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:19 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Broad band Xfmr question
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:22:22 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Anikan wrote:
> I have to make a Xfme to go from 450ohm ladder line to 52 ohm
> coax. I have the wiring layour for a 9:1 balun but have no idea of
> size/number of turns of wire.

Hi Larry, Is this balun to be used in conjunction with an SWR of 1:1
on the ladder line? If not, you don't need a 9:1 balun because you
will NEVER see 450 ohms at the transmitter.

*********************************************************************
* If the SWR on the ladder line is not 1:1, it is IMPOSSIBLE to see *
* 450 ohms at the transmitter end of 450 ohm lossless ladder line.  *
*********************************************************************

If one runs a high SWR on the ladder line, a balanced tuner is the best
way to go. Second best is a 1:1 current balun/choke. IMO, if one's un-
balanced Pi-net tuner won't match the impedance provided by a 1:1 balun,
then one needs to do some tuning on the ladder line to transform that
God-awful impedance instead of using lossy baluns and lossy tuners to
obtain the "match".

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:19 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna Articles Needed
Date: 26 Nov 1996 02:32:07 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]


Paul and Nancy Smith (AE4AP and KB4RGW) have taken over the DX Magazine
and are off to a good start. The first (new) issue was mostly DXpeditions
and travelogue, but Paul would like to take the magazine back to its
variety format--with a DX emphasis.

HF antennas are an integral part of that approach and the Smiths welcome
HF antenna articles that would be of interest to DX'ers. If you have an
idea for an article or review and  you'd like some info on this, please
drop me some e-mail and I will help you out.

73
Chip N1IR
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:20 1996
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From: david johnson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: swan mobile ant
Date: 26 Nov 1996 03:09:02 GMT
Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <57dn0e$[e-mail]>
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I have purchased a Swan mobile ant, apparently this si from the
1986 period and has a sliding bar to tap the inductor, will
handle 300 watts. I need a manual or info where to place the
taps for 75 meters, the wires are broken off the coil, anyone
used this ant or have knowledge ? Thanks VA3MRJ



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:21 1996
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From: "William O. Reichert" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: hy-gain 18hts vertical
Date: 26 Nov 1996 04:07:38 GMT
Organization: APCiNet
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57dqea$[e-mail]>
References: <572l2h$[e-mail]> <57ada0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup221.apci.net
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To: [e-mail]

I had an 18ht for many years before I had to change QTHs.  It is
the best 80 meter DX antenna I ever used, bar none,  For some
close in stuff, sometimes a dipole (mine were never over about 45
feet high, which is really too low for 80) or inverted V would be
stronger.  I had eleven radials, most of which were nearly a
quarter wave on 80, but a couple were shorter due to obstructions
or property line restrictions.

If they are the same as they uesd to be, they resonate in the
high end of the band, and I was mostly interested in the low end,
where the stock antennas SWR got kind of high.  I extended the
vertical tubing several feet, to where the low swr point was at
about 3700.  I then had below 2/1 swr from 3500 to about 3925.

It was also pretty good on 40, but not always the equal of
dipoles/vees at about 45 feet on some long paths.  I used it
seldom on the higher bands as I had beams available most of the
time, but resonance was no problem, so it should radiate.  Note
that as the antenna gets longer in terms of wavelength, the
radiation angle can actually go up.

I also used it on 160 with a loading coil and managed to work 47
states and 3 or 4 countries (all N or SA) in about 4 hours during
a CQ 160 contest back in the days when lots of the country was
limited to 50 watts.

As with all verticals, it is a better tx antenna than rx,
generally, because of noise pick up.

All in all, if I had to have one antenna, and expense wasn't an
issue, I'd have the 18ht again.  However, expense is an issue, so
I'm using the Butternut now.

73, Bill, N9HH



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 04:10:49 GMT
Organization: From the home front
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <57dtns$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: n1btq.tiac.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

Thanks for the enormous response for my query on Hamsticks!  I received some
passionate opinions, pro & con!

Thanks anf Happy Holidays,

Tim N1BTQ


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:23 1996
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From: "William O. Reichert" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF6V high SWR on 80M
Date: 26 Nov 1996 04:11:46 GMT
Organization: APCiNet
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <57dqm2$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]

Mine is much narrower, perhaps 25-30 kHz for 2/1 swr, and the
portion of the band doesn't seem to make much difference.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:24 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Tropical Loop
Date: 26 Nov 1996 04:32:55 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Can anyone suggest a good, fairly simple design for a tropical band loop?
I'm using a LW and FRG--110, and doing great except on the tropical bands.
Thanks for any information.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:27 1996
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From: rderr <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:39:21 -0800
Organization: Ancient Anthracite Observers
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32019 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:708 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20303 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43023 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118852 rec.radio.amateur.space:8911

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In article <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]@smtp-news2
.ibm.net writes:
> >In <[e-mail]>, Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> writes:
> >>R. A. Green wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
> >>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
> >>> >adam turner
> >>> >[e-mail]
> >>> >
> >>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
> >>>
> >>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
> >>
> >>Tube type hand held?
> >
> >  Sure, those 90 volt B batterys are getting a little long in the tooth :-(
=)
> >
> >                                                                JimI imagin
e that the A battery will also weigh a few pounds, perhaps the
whole thing could be mounted on a kid's toy wagon as a mobile unit.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (gudmundur)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 05:10:55 GMT
Organization: silverlake stable
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57du4v$6uu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sl31.cyberia.com
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I have always heard bad things about the AEA unit, but is the MFJ
any better. Please don't be afraid to be honest. I own an MFJ and
am sometimes surprised that it works as well as it does. Now a
question for opinion, When I go out on field day, would an outbacker
on the roof of my car be better than the MFJ superloop?



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:29 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:29:26 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
> From: [e-mail]
> Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:13:05 GMT
> >Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
>
> >I was skeptical about the A-99.  A ham buddy sneaked over and put one on
> >my tower while I was out of town for a couple of days.  He changed the
> >coax to feed it from my 10 meter beam.  Man, I worked everything this
> side
> >of Egypt before I realized what he had done.  I dared him to take it
> down!
> > I simply bought him a new one $49.00 I think.  I use it for 10 and 20
> >meters and have not had the first moments problems.  I get excellent
> >signal reports too.  Here is a low cost antenna that gets results.  Cut
> >off 7 1/4" from the CB (Cuss) Solacon, and you have an A-99 without the
> >$100 price. Good luck.
>
> Hey, and its not even April 1st. Are you also in the market for some
> swampland..
> I also have a problem parsing the A-99 for 49.00 in line 5 and the A-99
> for 100.00 in line 9.
>
> Did you wonder why turning the rotor had no effect on signal strength or
> did you buddy install it horizonally on the rotor? I tried cutting 18" off
> a 102" whip and it had trouble receiving German, English was OK.. Have
> fun.. CUL
> N0ISL/UA4LIS/UB5WJD...... 73 :>)
> John Douglas, N0ISL
> AX.25 N0ISL@KZ7I.#MSP.MN.USA.NOAM
> I'm in Minnesota only because I must be somewhere!ok where did you find the
Solacon for 49$.  Have had my Antron 99 up for
6 years love it.  NOw want to get one for my son, but hell if the Solacon
is the same for half the price.
LOU KB6FFT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:30 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Butternut Vertical
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:32:11 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57a587$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-104-173-97.scrm01.pacbell.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: KB5ELV <[e-mail]>

KB5ELV wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I inherited a Butternut 80-10-meter vertical..not sure of the model
> though. Needs cleaning up, but all the parts are there. It was in storage
> for a while...
>
> Anyway, I'm wondering about putting the thing somewhere. I live in an
> apartment, on the second floor. My landlords are pretty much of the "You
> pay your rent on time, we don't care what you do" philosophy, for the most
> part...Anyone have suggestions as to where to put this antenna? I was
> thinking roof- or balcony. Ground mounted isn't much of an option, as
> there's not a lot of space to put it and lay out radials...not to mention
> the fact that there are little kids all over the place. Anyone have
> suggestions/advice? I haven't worked much with vertical antennas...mostly
> wire dipoles...so I'm not really sure about what to do with this thing,
> and there's nowhere to string wires really.
>
> Thanks much.
>
> --BuddyIf you can sell the butternut.   I have a suggestion.  I looked at al
l
the verticals .  Settled on a GAP Titan.  Works great no radials needed.
LOU KB6FFT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:30 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF antenna suggestions needed
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:40:32 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-104-173-97.scrm01.pacbell.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]>

Peter and Colleen McGreevy wrote:t bay.)

>
> (PS- the whole "in attic" idea is to keep those pesky neighbors at bay.)
Pete
Look at the GAP Titan.  I put one up last may.  Just follow directions
plug it in and go.  Great antenna for limited space.  No radials
required.  40 M counterpoise.  No tuner required for my 706 in 80 to 6
meters.  I'v heard that some lucky guys even got it to work 160m without
a tuner. Atake a look at it.
LOU KB6FFT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:32 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Windoms
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 22:53:08 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <57djvl$[e-mail]>
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Joe Tyburczy wrote:
> I'm dying to know if the silly thing works.

Hi Joe, If you are flying a Zeppelin, this makes a pretty good
trailing antenna. Theory is the 1/4 WL parallel transmission
line transforms the high impedance of the 1/2 WL end-fed to
a low impedance. Truth is, the feedpoint currents cannot
possibly be balanced so the feedline radiates which is not
so bad when it is higher than the antenna trailing from a
Zepp.  It's hard to believe that they chose an antenna
guaranteed to result in RF-in-the-shack while
riding a hydrogen-filled kaboom.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:33 1996
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From: UN93B <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,dfw.forsale,tx.forsale,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AT-50 Tuner F.S.
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 22:18:13 -0800
Organization: Ford Motor Company
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57c99u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: se0039.ptpd.ford.com
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TEST


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dave Harrison)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: inverted V
Date: 26 Nov 1996 07:48:09 GMT
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <57e7bp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com
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What sort of performance  can I expect from a 20m inverted V, where the
center height is about 18' ■╬and the ends are at about 10'.  Would a
ground mounted vertical be a better choice?


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 08:23:21 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <57e9ee$[e-mail]>
References: <565do3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>, Madjid <[e-mail]> wrote:
>CHARLES J. MICHAELS wrote:
>>
>> Madjid, VE2GMI said -
>> Since most feedpoints are out of reach I usually measure feedpoint
>> impedance by using a 1/2 wave length coax (*Velocity) without anything
>> else. At the coax end I am "sure" that I have the Z of the antenna and
>> not some coax transformed value. When I am sure that the antenna is
>> tuned I add a balun.
>>
>> Madjid,
>>         In spite of the time honored use of this method, it is
>> measuring the impedance of the feedppoint of the antenna with
>> the coax connected to one side.
>>         When this measurement line is removed and replaced by the
>> final line with a balun, the current distribution in the antenna
>> and feedline outer sheath are changed and the feedpoint impedance
>> may be quite different from that measured with the measurement line.
>
>I agree, but at least you know the "real" feedpoint impedance and
>the "damage" will be minimal in my view if your balun is near the
>feed point and not 10 or 20 feet away as the original poster had it.
>
>If have a better solution please post it.

Measuring through a half wave coax line can be quite accurate if:

  -- You use a "current balun" at the feedpoint. If you notice any changes
as you move or touch the cable, (or the feedline isn't symmetrically
placed relative to the antenna) put a second one about 1/4 wave down from
the feedpoint. Use a W2DU-type balun (ferrite beads strung along the
outside of the coax) or an air-core type balun made by rolling the coax
itself into a coil. This way, there's no effect on the feedline properties.
Of course, if you don't use a "current balun" when the antenna is fed with
its normal feedline, you may get a different result then.

  -- You account for feedline loss. Feedline loss will skew the measurement
toward the characteristic Z of the feedline. Use of low loss feedline
having a Z0 as close as possible to the Z being measured will minimize the
error. You may need to mathematically remove the feedline's effect using
equations you can find in many sources. If the effect isn't removed, the
error can be considerable even with low loss feedline if the feedline Z is
far from the measured Z.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ANTRON 99 ANTENNA
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 08:29:26 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <57e9pq$[e-mail]>
References: <56bbdj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] wrote:
>I was skeptical about the A-99.  A ham buddy sneaked over and put one on
>my tower while I was out of town for a couple of days.  He changed the
>coax to feed it from my 10 meter beam.  Man, I worked everything this side
>of Egypt before I realized what he had done.  I dared him to take it down!
> I simply bought him a new one $49.00 I think.  I use it for 10 and 20
>meters and have not had the first moments problems.  I get excellent
>signal reports too.  Here is a low cost antenna that gets results.  Cut
>off 7 1/4" from the CB (Cuss) Solacon, and you have an A-99 without the
>$100 price. Good luck.

Unscruplous manufacturers have been known to make testimonial postings like
this without identifying themselves. The credibility of your post would be
enhanced by your clearly identifying yourself by name, call, and email
address, and stating that you have no association with the company.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:37 1996
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From: "George J. Molnar" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Windoms?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 06:15:32 -0500
Organization: Molnar & Associates, Inc
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: "R.Moroney" <[e-mail]>

R.Moroney wrote:
>
> I haven't seen much mention of Windom antennas here, at least not  > since I
've been sampling this newsgroup, so I've been wondering > whether they're eve
n in the running as a viable wire antenna system.
>
I've used both the single-wire feed Windom and the more modern coaxial
fed "Windom" (OCF dipoles) with great success. The feedline does need to
be kept at a 90 degree angle from the radiator, and sometimes "tweaking"
the length makes a big difference. A straight radiator seems also to be
a help. On the whole, I'd say the windom and its variants work at least
as well as a dipole in the same location, perhaps slightly better on
some paths. It certainly is a useable multiband radiator that is easy to
build and install.

About your comments on the ARRL antenna book...There must be something
in the water in Newington. Beats me how they decide what to include and
what to ignore.
--
George J. Molnar
Molnar & Associates, Inc.
Lebanon, New Hampshire
Respond to: [e-mail]
Web Site: http://www.cyberportal.net/gmolnar/index.html


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bradley Granger)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 26 Nov 1996 22:24:08 +1100
Organization: DIALix Services, Sydney, Australia.
Lines: 54
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:118928 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43128 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32099

Dave Ingram ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <571jie$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
: >I have seen Ski Patrol personnel use a nylon harness rig that holds
: >their radios up on their chest, just below the chin.  The radio is
: >held in place by velcro strips.   The harness of course goes over the
: >sholders and crosses in the back so everything is secure.   When they
: >want to talk they lower their mouth down and speak.  The radio is
: >close enough so they can hear.  Of course they have to use their hand
: >to press the PTT button.
:
: This is very similar to the mounting method that cycle couriers use here for

: their radios. I stick my ht in a pocket in the side of my bag at the moment
: with a 5/8-1/4 antenna on it. A gellcell in the back adds some omph!
:
: >I do not like the little bug speaker/mic that fits into your ear.  I
: >have use some and it always seems it falls out or the wire going up to
: >it gets caught in clothing and is pulled out, or you move your head
: >and once again it is dislodged.  If there is a headset/boom mic
: >arrangement, I think it would be better.
:
: I am still looking for a headset that fits comfortably under my helmet (whic
h
: are required by law in NZ; not wearing one can cost $80 and is stupid to
: boot!). I have had limited success with a throat mike and earpiece. I made a
n
: extended PTT that was attached to the handle bars.
:
: >I am lead to believe that you need an external antenna on your bike
: >and the rubber duck would not reach out the way you wanted.  I have
: >mounted a 1/4 mag mount on the bike rack that fits over the rear
: >wheel.
:
: I have made a mount that bolts onto the bike frame down at the rear axel
: (since the frame is rather tough there). I have a 5/8 that I want to try, bu
t
: as some people have suggested, a 1/2 may be better.
:
:
: Dave, ZL3TDI
:

I have modified a 2 inch speaker from a cellular phone hands free kit,
added a ptt button in one corner that I can push with my thumb. It is
mounted on the left handlebar. The 2m ht fits in a small triangular bag
on the front centre of the handle bars. The antenna is a thin steel 1/4
whip on a rear carrier (sometimes, at others it is just the rubber
ducky). The mic is an electret from a car phone, the cord is fed through
a length of brass tubing cut from the 1/8inch dia semi-rigid coax.

The tube was soldered to a small pad of pcb about 1" square. This is the
boom mic and it fits to the side of the helmet with a patch of velcro, it
comes unstuck if I come unstuck. That mic cord goes down to the ptt on
the speaker box and then to the radio. It works nicely, the mic gets very
little wind noise, is hands free and the radio is in front where I can
see it.

Brad VK2QQ


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Fortnum)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: U have 6 meter Yagi plans?
Date: 26 Nov 96 12:21:43 GMT
Organization: Unorganization
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Would anybody have any information on a 3-element Yagi (horizontal) for
6 meters?  Looking for forward gain.

Any information would be appreciated.

Cheers.
--
Richard Fortnum
VA3 RFZ
mailto:[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:42 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Spiralray ???
Date: 26 Nov 1996 13:27:17 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Admin: [e-mail]

I remember a 73 article on the spiralray in 1967 or 68; haven't seen for
years so that's my limit of info. GL!

Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:42 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS:Neumann U87Ai
Date: 26 Nov 1996 13:29:15 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57dj14$[e-mail]>
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X-Admin: [e-mail]

The transfer function on the neumanns is no better than on other MODERN
mikes. Add some compression, EQ, and a bit of reverb and delay and save
urself some $$$.
73
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:43 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:08:42 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 10
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References: <57dtns$[e-mail]>
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Tim Smith wrote:
> Thanks for the enormous response for my query on Hamsticks!  I received some
> passionate opinions, pro & con! Tim N1BTQ

Hi Tim, One would be well advised to throw out the "passionate
opinions". Emotion has no place in a purely scientific field,
researched for a hundred years, where some relatively simple
measurements result in absolute dispassionate facts.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:46 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What We Really Need (Was: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:21:24 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 14
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[e-mail] wrote:
> But what we really need is a shootout for base station verticals. KF9WX

I doubt that you will get many volunteers for your proposal of a
centralized shootout. Something else that could be done is instead
of collecting the verticals in one place, an instrument like the
Palomar FSM-1 field strength meter could be used for comparison
of existing verticals. One FSM-1 could be shared or a number of
them calibrated against each other. Far field measurements could
be standardized to two wavelengths from the verticals over an open
field. With a large enough data base, anomalies should be obvious,
just as they are in the large data base of mobile shootouts.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:46 1996
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From: Lyle Koehler <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Windoms, End Fed Zepp
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:22:22 -0600
Organization: MEANS
Lines: 7
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References: <[e-mail]> <57djvl$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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The popular J-pole antenna works fine on HF bands, not just on VHF. It
also works great even if the half-wave radiating section is at right
angles to the quarter-wave matching section. Then it becomes an "end-fed
Zepp".

Lyle, K0LR



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:49 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!world6.bellatlantic.net!IConNet!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 15:38:30 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57du4v$6uu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi "D"

In your post, you wrote: "I have always heard bad things about the AEA
unit, but is the MFJ any better. Please don't be afraid to be honest. I
own an MFJ and
am sometimes surprised that it works as well as it does. Now a question
for opinion, When I go out on field day, would an outbacker on the roof of
my car be better than the MFJ superloop?"

I have never owned either one, so perhaps I'm the wrong person to attempt
an answer for this.  The designers of the MFJ loop have stated that a
thick round radiator works better than a flat strip because--on the
strip--RF current tends to distribute itself along the edges rather than
evenly over the entire conductor surface.  This supposedly increases
losses and hurts efficiency--and view supported in theory, if not in fact.

As far as the signal comparison with an Outbacker goes, I think I would
put my money on the loop--especially at 20 or 30 Meters where I suspect
losses in the Outbacker would be higher.  However, a lot of variables come
into play when using antennas in close proximity to imperfect ground--and
when comparing them over a long propagaiton path.  At any given time and
location, results could change.  Probably local field strength
measurements would yield a far more meaningful result.  Also, two
Outbackers--configured as a dipole on a 20' portable mast--might prove
interesting competition.

Rick  K1BQT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:50 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Windoms
Date: 26 Nov 1996 15:58:38 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

That makes sense.  You may have solved the mystery of the Hindenberg
incident! It was caused by stray RF in the shack! I guess they went to the
"center fed zepp" after that.

Now what about the "double bazooka?"

-jt


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:51 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!world6.bellatlantic.net!IConNet!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!n1ist
From: [e-mail] (Michael L. Ardai)
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utopia Planetia Shipyards - Mars
References: <57dtns$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:01:52 GMT
Lines: 15
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <57dtns$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tim Smith) write
s:
-Thanks for the enormous response for my query on Hamsticks!

Just to toss in another one.  I have a 20M hamstick mounted horizontally
just under my window (on a hinged mount so I can swing it up against
the building when I am not using it).  I've worked 107 countries with
it and a TS50 running 100W.  This is from Boston at about 100' above
sea level, pointing NE.

Now if only I could get QSLs out of those last 8...
/mike
--
\|/      Michael L. Ardai        N1IST       [e-mail]       \|/
-*- ===  Boston Amateur Radio Club:  http://www.barc.org/barc   === -*-
/|\    or send "info barc-list" to [e-mail]     /|\


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:53 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 26 Nov 1996 16:27:10 GMT
Organization: InternetU, Inc.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <57f5ou$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CDN) writes:
>when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?
>hmmmm
>cdn

because a number of high-profile members of the profession diligently slave
to become the ambulance-chaser stereotype that is the root of the gags.

all you gotta do is listen to the radio and tv ads.

one radio station personality locally commented once that for the money the
law firm was paying for the spot, and for the production cost of the spot, the

cost of a professional voice talent would have been peanuts and would
enhance their appearance and remove some of the "used car salesman" image
the founder projects...

Bill Newkirk WB9IVR                  The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group
Melbourne, FL                       duty now for the future of amateur radio
Lombardi's 1st Law of Business:
   Companies succeed in spite of their best effort.  If they succeed at all.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:54 1996
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From: Marty Gulseth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Near/Far fields and in between
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:05:09 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Spokane Division
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Cecil A. Moore wrote:
>

> from a resonant dipole. Question is: how far from a dipole or
> quarter-wave vertical do I have to be to ensure that I am measuring
> mostly the far field. From what I read, seems a couple of wavelengths
> should be enough? Like 500 ft for 75m and 70 ft for 10m?
>
Hi Cecil,

I assume most replies will be posted to the group. If you receive any
off group,
please post them. I'm curious also!

Many thanks!

Marty - W7LEJ


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:55 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Which 5-band antenna?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 17:05:41 GMT
Organization: Maine InternetWorks
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On 11/18/96 9:18PM, in message <[e-mail]>
,
[e-mail] wrote:

> My father-in-law just lost his Telrex tri-bander to an ice storm here in
> Minnesota last weekend.  He's looking for a 5 band antenna to replace it.
> Any recommendations?  I don't think he's interested in a quad.
>
> Thanks for your input.
> Mark,  N0YRW
Why not give the GAP vertical a try ? You can ground mount it, and put off the
 tower
ressurection until spring. These are pretty good antennas.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:56 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Tatro)
Subject: Can you operate HF Mobile from a Corvette????
Message-ID: <57f82n$[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:06:31 GMT
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I've been operating HF from my 89 GMC van for a
number of years now. I'll soon be using a 75
Corvette as my main means of transportation.

   Is there enough metal to create a good antenna
system? I don't want to start running coax and
power lines if it's just a bad idea.


73's
Patrick N0WCG


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:56 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Hamstick...any opinions?
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:38:42 GMT
Lines: 8

Hamstick: The best $19.95 antenna money can buy. I use them on top my van
for 40 meters. It wacks tree limbs and cable tv lines. Finally I finished
it off after forgetting it and pulling into the garage. Another $19.95!
Sure glad it wasn't a $300 screwdriver catcher!


--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:57 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: inverted V
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18ft is about a quater wavelength and if you check the charts, you will
find most of the radiation would occur at high angles, useless for dx. But
maybe thats what you want? The vertical should out perform it for longer
skip work.


Dave Harrison ([e-mail]) wrote:
: What sort of performance  can I expect from a 20m inverted V, where the
: center height is about 18' ■╬and the ends are at about 10'.  Would a
: ground mounted vertical be a better choice?

--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:29:59 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: What We Really Need (Was: Hamstick...any opinions?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou1
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References: <[e-mail]> <NEWTNews.4877.849028067.Postmaster@hfs08>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:45:02 GMT
Lines: 46

How about a mobile antenna survival shootout? The Hamstick should easily
win this one. That's a factor seldom considered but should be. What other
antenna can be replaced for $19.95 after a bout with the garage door?


[e-mail] wrote:

: Cecil_A_Moore writes:

: (snip)
: > Hi John, those weren't exactly comments. Jesse, W6KKT, runs the infamous
: > California mobile shootout every year. His report is about *accurately
: > measured* results for 75m mobile far fields.
: (snip)

: I always enjoy reading the results of the mobile shootouts.  And the results
 seem to be
: pretty consistent from place to place and time to time.

: But what we really need is a shootout for base station verticals.  This news
 group is
: peppered with very strong opinions, both pro and con, for the different majo
r brands.
: Butternut?  Gap?   Cushcraft?  Which really lives up to its advertising hype
?  It is
: frustrating (not to mention downright curious) to read one posting that says
 such-an-such
: vertical antenna is a great performer and is recommended highly while the ne
xt posting
: says the same antenna is little better than a dummy load.

: I don't own an HF vertical but, in the pursuit of truth, am willing to do my
 fair
: share.  So here's my offer:

: If someone out there in newgroupland has a suitable local for testing, how a
bout
: organizing a shootout for HF verticals?  I will contribute by purchasing a v
ertical from
: the list of antennas to be tested (I make the assumption I can do this for a
round $300 or
: so) and will bring it to the test site as long as the site is within 600 mil
es plus or
: minus from my home QTH.  I'll help with set up and clean up but as I am not
really a
: techie type will need to leave the organization of the shootout including ru
les of
: competition to others.

: Anyone willing to organize this for the betterment of mankind?  And anyone w
illing to
: join me by providing an antenna to be tested?  Let's get the question of ver
tical antenna
: effectiveness decided once and for all so we can get on to more important qu
estions, like
: Fractal Antennas.

: 73 de KF9WX


--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (dick sander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: hy-gain 18hts vertical
Date: 26 Nov 1996 18:29:07 GMT
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems
Lines: 44
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I'd also like to add my $.02 regarding Hygain's 18HT Hytower
vertical antenna. Over the last 20 years I've owned four of
them. I've used them as a single vertical, two verticals phased
with 62' spacing, and three vertical in-line with 62' spacing
on 80m and 40m. I've A-B compared their performance against other
simple antennas:

A single hytower operating on 20m/40m/80m at my QTH the hytower
with 32 ea 50-60 ft radials, matches but usually outperforms my
80/40m Vee at 62 ft apex at ANY distance. Compared to a 80m center
loaded with a capacity hat 30 ft tall, the single hytower was
typically 2 S-units better.

On 20m my triband beam at 70ft is/was significantly stronger
over the hytower(s).

Two hytowers in phase compared to the same inverted-Vees on
80m/40m are typically 2 S-units better. When compared to a Cushcraft
40CD at 110 ft, the two hytowers on 40m usually ran neck and neck.
In DX contests, I'd switch between them and I get a response radomly
into EU from either antenna. Into Ja and VK (from Texas) I'd say
the two hytowers were generally better. In SS contests I'd say the 40CD
was generally better.
---------
I also have a lake lot with a single hytower. I use the 160m inverted-L
kit. When I work my wife at home she uses the 160m V at 62 ft and I use
the L. At a distance of 65 miles 80m at night is usually too long of
skip so 160m m works fine for us. But when another station joins in the
QSO, the inverted V is always the better of the two signals. I've worked
49 states (need KL7) CW with 100W using a single baseloaded hytower and
49 states ssb with 100 W with the same baseloaded hytower (KL7 for WAS
required 1 kW). The big boys say its efficiency is too poor to get out
but it will!
---------
The Hytower is expensive but it is durable and repairable. Once set in
concrete; its there for years. It has my vote for the best commericial
MULTIBAND vertical.

73, Dick -K5QY







From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:01 1996
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From: Gene Shablygin <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: GAP Titan and QRO?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:30:29 -0800
Organization: CompuCom Systems, Inc.
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Hi guys,

I need an advice. Last Sunday my Fritzel trap vertical died... I guess
because
all this kind of antenna can't handle more or less decent power. It
could not
withstand just 1300W. Similar thing happand a few years ago with my
HyGain
DX-77 (I melted the 80 meter trap with only 600 Wtts).

Now I need to install something more rugged instead. I do not want traps
any more,
and the only commercial manufacturer who make trapless multiband
vertical antennas
I found so far, is GAP.

But I am still not sure, if this thing, even without traps, will be able
to handle the real
legal limit.

So if somebody had experience with using GAP (I am thinking about Titan)
with their
full power (I mean 8877 class) amplifier, the comments will be HIGHLY
appreciated.

One more question -- if anybody used GAPs in phased array
configurations?

And finally... if anybody compared Challenger to Titan?

TNX

Gene W3UA / RA3AA


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:04 1996
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From: Jim <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:33:41 -0800
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> Tim Smith wrote:
> > Thanks for the enormous response for my query on Hamsticks!  I received so
me
> > passionate opinions, pro & con! Tim N1BTQ
>
> Hi Tim, One would be well advised to throw out the "passionate
> opinions". Emotion has no place in a purely scientific field,
> researched for a hundred years, where some relatively simple
> measurements result in absolute dispassionate facts.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


Best common sense I've seen here in a long time.

I will have to add that it also seems like the flames of "passionate
opinions"  are frequently fueled by the sparkle of $$$$ signs in the
eyes.  For example, when someone is concerned mainly with patents,
selling rights and marketing hype and not the free flow of information
and truthful ideas which is the basis of the Internet and in particular
the USENET.

Fractenna, are you listening?

Jim

--
My from line is not machine readable my real e-mail address is:
[e-mail]       Do not hit reply to send back to me.

*Sending unsolicited e-mails to my address that are not of a*
*previously established personal nature nor directly related*
*to my business will be considered a request of my proof reading*
*services.  My rates are $50 per word and punctuation.  Sending*
*to my address is considered acceptance of these terms.*


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Zander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: IS G5RV GOOD ANTNA?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 18:45:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <57fds6$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56tn6n$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I totally agree with the suggestions of NOT buying a kit for a wire antenna. S
ince
most of the work is in installing the antenna, why not save yourself some big
$$ and
have the satisfaction of doing it all?

Regarding 450 ohm, etc.  there is another trap.  All baluns except "choke type
" are
designed to work with a certain input and output impedance.  If you have a bal
un that
was intended to work with 450 ohm load, and the load is very different, some o
r
all of these things will happen:

The "balanced" side is not really balanced.

Impedance ratio changes

Losses go up

These effects are generally more noticable at the upper and lower frequencies.

Personally I am not impressed by the many tuners on the market which have a ci
rcuit
for coax to coax and then put in some toroid cores as a balun.


73, Paul
[e-mail]

        _/           _/         _/_/     _/_/_/_/    _/_/_/_/_/
     _/  _/       _/  _/     _/         _/     _/           _/
   _/_/_/_/     _/_/_/_/    _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/          _/
  _/     _/    _/     _/    _/   _/   _/              _/
 _/     _/    _/     _/     _/_/     _/           _/_/_/_/_/

Cecil Moore ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Joe Tyburczy wrote:
: > You can even get a 4:1 balun to go from the 450 ohm line to a length of co
ax so
: > you can bring that in thru the window and avoid winter drafts.

: Hi Joe, if you don't know what impedance the balun is seeing, this is
: bad advice. According to EZNEC, a 102ft dipole has a 20:1 SWR on 75m
: when fed with 450 ohm ladder line. If one hits a current loop at the
: end of the feedline, the impedance is 22 ohms. A 4:1 balun will take
: 22 ohms down to 5 ohms, in the opposite direction of 50 ohms. If one
: hits a current node at the end of the feedline, the impedance is 9000
: ohms, a next to impossible impedance for most commercial baluns to
: transform on 75m. In the two examples above, the balun is seeing either
: 5 ohms or 9000 ohms when it was designed for 200 ohms.

: 73, Cecil, W6RCA


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:07 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: Bob Lewis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hamstick...any opinions?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:07:58 -0500
References: <572fia$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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John wrote:
>
> W6KKT Jesse wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Nov 96 20:00:51 GMT, [e-mail] (Tim Smith) wrote:
> >
> > >Any opinions on the Hamstick mobile antennas?  Are these the standard 3/8
"
> > >threaded mount?  How do these compare with Hustler?
> > >
> > Hi Tim, on 75 meters the Hamstick: -10db  compared to Bugcatcher,
> > -7db screwdriver, -5 to a Hustler.  In my opinion, the "screwdriver"
> > t;ype is a excellent multi band compromise.
> > 73, Jesse, W6KKT
>
> I disagree with the comments on antennas.  I have been using a hamstick
> clone for some time on several bands.  I find it to not be the match of
> a bug catcher on 80 and 40 ( down an S unit or so) but the equal or
> better than the hustler especialy on the higher bands. Providing of
> course you take the time to really match the antenna (not just use a
> tuner). I would used additional capactance at the base (silver mica) on
> (80 and 40 on a bumper mount) and get SWR easliy under 1.5 to 1 at
> resonance. The value need depends on your setup (anywhere for 100 to 600
> pf) I got very good signal reports on 40m mobile with no tuner and a
> TS-140S for several years. ( and you do not need any fishing line to guy
> it!!)
>
> John / W8JX

I use a 2:1 UNUN with my Hamsticks and get a good match at resonance
(1.2 : 1 or so) on all Hamsticks 75 meters through 10 meters. UNUN is in
the base, no capacitors or coil taps to change when changing bands.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Zander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 26 Nov 1996 19:16:28 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <57ffmc$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscit.sc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

There is a valid reason why loops on 40 and 80 might be described as good RX.

Almost always the signal is mixed with a great deal of noise coming in.
Putting up a more efficient antenna, or one with gain will increase both
the desired signal and the noise.  The S/N ratio remains the same.

In many urban and suburban QTHs, in addition to the atmospheric noise,
there is a lot of power line noise from nearby devices.  Loop antennas often
are less effecient to locally generated noise.  Therefore it is quite
possible on receive to find that with a loop antenna, you need more
gain in the receiver, the S/N is better than a dipole at 50 feet.

Rich McAllister ([e-mail]) wrote:
 In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:

 > That is 'good RX; bad TX".
 >
 > This is incorrect. Through the principle of reciprocity the small loop is
 > EQUALLY as bad OR as good in either case. If you add black boxes to the
 > data stream well, that's not the antenna, is it?




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: Loop feeding problem
Date: 26 Nov 1996 20:41:19 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <57fklf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Madjid,VE2GMI posted:
CHARLES J. MICHAELS wrote:
>
> Madjid, VE2GMI said -
> Since most feedpoints are out of reach I usually measure feedpoint
> impedance by using a 1/2 wave length coax (*Velocity) without anything
> else. At the coax end I am "sure" that I have the Z of the antenna and
> not some coax transformed value. When I am sure that the antenna is
> tuned I add a balun.
>
> Madjid,
>         In spite of the time honored use of this method, it is
> measuring the impedance of the feedppoint of the antenna with
> the coax connected to one side.
>         When this measurement line is removed and replaced by the
> final line with a balun, the current distribution in the antenna
> and feedline outer sheath are changed and the feedpoint impedance
> may be quite different from that measured with the measurement line.

I agree, but at least you know the "real" feedpoint impedance and
the "damage" will be minimal in my view if your balun is near the
feed point and not 10 or 20 feet away as the original poster had it.

If have a better solution please post it.

Madjid,
        Prepare the measurement half-wave line WITH the balun included.

        This will be somewhat better than using a raw half-wave line
with the shield connected to one side of the antenna.  However, it
will still be somewhat different from the final system where the line
length to the point where it is effectively grounded differs from
that of the measurement line.  If the balun equipted measurement line
outer shield is grounded at a length equal to that of the final line
and the dress of the line with respect to the antenna is similar then
the best accuracy is obtained.
        It is much easier to simply use the final line, measure the
impedance at the input end then put this data into a transmission
line equation with input impedance as the input and calculate the
load impedance.  Of course even this method is subject to uncertainty
in line Zc anf velocity factor.  These may even vary somewhat within
coax from the same rooll.
Charlie, W7XC
But on the otherhand - how accurate do you need it?
--


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:10 1996
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From: "T. Pridgen" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HF JPOLE ANT?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 20:43:18 GMT
Organization: SST
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <01bbdbd9$43cfd220$09c9a1cd@pridgent>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-g-9.pinn.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Looking for plans for an HF JPOLE antenna. All info will be appreciated.
Please respond to my Email address.
73, KC4YTF
Email: [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:11 1996
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From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What We Really Need (Was: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:47:37 -0500
Organization: Utter Chaos
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
> > But what we really need is a shootout for base station verticals. KF9WX
>
> I doubt that you will get many volunteers for your proposal of a
> centralized shootout. Something else that could be done is instead
> of collecting the verticals in one place, an instrument like the
> Palomar FSM-1 field strength meter could be used for comparison
> of existing verticals. One FSM-1 could be shared or a number of
> them calibrated against each other. Far field measurements could
> be standardized to two wavelengths from the verticals over an open
> field. With a large enough data base, anomalies should be obvious,
> just as they are in the large data base of mobile shootouts.
>

Cecil, if I equip my airplane with an HF reciever and use GPS to
fly a 10 mile arc around the test site, would that be an appropriate
way to measure far field strength?

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:12 1996
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From: Walter R Francis <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: 26 Nov 96 15:57:50 -500
Organization: The hand that uses the Amiga is the hand that rules the world.
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On 21-Nov-96 13:12:30, Glenn Sparks ([e-mail]) said:

>While a 1/4 wave requires a groundplane, a dipole doesn't, if you mount
>on the side of a rack, you can make a dipole about as easy as a
>vertical, there will be some detuning from the bike, but HT's are
>fairly forgiving of SWR since they are designed for ducks.

This is what I have done..  I took an old broken fishing pole and took the
shielding out of some old 28 conductor cable, slid it over it in two pieces,
stretched it out and cut to proper length.  Then I used silicone to hold it in
places, soldered coax in place, used tie wraps to hold the coax secure and to
make it go at a 90 degree angle to the antenna (for an inch or two anyway.. :)
and then it curves down.

I have to step over the top tube to mount the bike, but it's no biggie.  I
wear the HT in a fanny pack, the coax is loosely attached at the seat so I
just attach it when I get on, and I use the Premier throat mic which has a
finger PTT so I am hands-free.  Be warned, the premier mic doesn't have the
best quality, but it's wind-free, tiny (small ring around the neck and an
earpiece) and works well enough to be understood.

Bicycle mobile is fun, but don't spend much time tuning your antenna..  Every
time you move it changes drastically, so get it reasonable and use it.

--
 -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.. .
 .  Walter Francis                                               _. KT4LH  .
 -         HP48GX  Alinco DJ580  Icom 281  Kenwood 530S         o:o        -
 .  [e-mail]                                   Life begins on 80  .
 --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...--  ..



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:14 1996
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From: Don Huff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 13:46:40 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hi "D"
>
> In your post, you wrote: "I have always heard bad things about the AEA
> unit, but is the MFJ any better. Please don't be afraid to be honest. I
> own an MFJ and
> am sometimes surprised that it works as well as it does. Now a question
> for opinion, When I go out on field day, would an outbacker on the roof of
> my car be better than the MFJ superloop?"
>
> I have never owned either one, so perhaps I'm the wrong person to attempt
> an answer for this.  The designers of the MFJ loop have stated that a
> thick round radiator works better than a flat strip because--on the
> strip--RF current tends to distribute itself along the edges rather than
> evenly over the entire conductor surface.  This supposedly increases
> losses and hurts efficiency--and view supported in theory, if not in fact.
>
> As far as the signal comparison with an Outbacker goes, I think I would
> put my money on the loop--especially at 20 or 30 Meters where I suspect
> losses in the Outbacker would be higher.  However, a lot of variables come
> into play when using antennas in close proximity to imperfect ground--and
> when comparing them over a long propagaiton path.  At any given time and
> location, results could change.  Probably local field strength
> measurements would yield a far more meaningful result.  Also, two
> Outbackers--configured as a dipole on a 20' portable mast--might prove
> interesting competition.
>
> Rick  K1BQT
Hi Rick,

  Concerning the "flat" vs "round" argument for small transmitting
loops:  The skin effect at 14 MHz means that the majority of RF current
flows in the top 0.0008" or so of metal.  A flat strip will work the
same as a round conductor, since either of them is so thick compared to
this small "skin" of metal carrying the RF current, that the current is
unaware of current existing on the other side of the (relatively) thick
conductor.  Therefore, I can see no reason to expect that the efficiency
of either shape is better.  It is the total conductor surface area, the
material's conductivity, the surface condition, and most importantly the
connections, that are important. I suspect that the real reason for the
flat conductor is to reduce manufacturing costs.  The Marketing
department then turns that into a "feature".  It's done all the time...
  For less than it costs to purchase either an MFJ or AEA loop, one
could purchase a vacuum-variable capacitor and the best materials and
make a brazed copper pipe loop which will outperform the factory units,
and handle more RF power in addition.  That is how to maximize the
radiated signal and get the most ERP per dollar.  In addition, just
doubling the diameter of a loop, using the same original construction,
will greatly increase efficiency by increasing the radiation resistance
about 16X (it goes up as the 4th power of the circumfrence) from say
0.090 ohms to 1.44 ohms on 20 meters, making the loss resistances less
important.  I suspect the size chosen for these loops has to do more
with shipping and assembly convenience and minimizing material cost
than anything else.

  73,
       Don, W6JL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:17 1996
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From: Don Huff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Near/Far fields and in between
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:00:23 -0800
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
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Marty Gulseth wrote:
>
> Cecil A. Moore wrote:
> >
>
> > from a resonant dipole. Question is: how far from a dipole or
> > quarter-wave vertical do I have to be to ensure that I am measuring
> > mostly the far field. From what I read, seems a couple of wavelengths
> > should be enough? Like 500 ft for 75m and 70 ft for 10m?
> >
> Hi Cecil,
>
> I assume most replies will be posted to the group. If you receive any
> off group,
> please post them. I'm curious also!
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Marty - W7LEJ

  Hi Marty,

  The "far-field" of an antenna is a mathematical convenience.  It is
usually a distance of 1/2*pi or roughly 1/6 wavelength away from the
antenna.  Inside this distance you are in the induction field of the
antenna, where the field strengths are much higher, and have transverse
as well as radial components. These induction fields oscillate, changing
from E-fields to H-fields and back again, at the transmitting frequency
rate.  The induction field falls of at a rate of 1/(distance)^3.
 Distances further than 1/6 wavelength are in the far-field, where the
field strength falls off at the rate of 1/(distance)^2.
  Two wavelengths away should be sufficient to guarantee far-field
measurements, in the absence of interfering reflections.

 73, GL,
     Don, W6JL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:18 1996
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From: "Ian Cummings" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Dual Rhombic
Date: 26 Nov 1996 22:53:09 GMT
Organization: Self
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <01bbdc05$994f9f60$[e-mail]>
References: <57cq42$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I sent him a letter today inquiring about his design and specifically the
feeding of the pair.

                        Ian

Prescott <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<57cq42$[e-mail]>...
> Did anyone see the dual rhombic for UHF in Dec. QST. The measured gain
> was somewhere around 17(not sure if dbd or dbi). Does anyone have plans
> for this? I'd like to build one for 2mtrs and 6mtrs.
>
> 73
> Mark Prescott
> KE4LWP
>
>


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:19 1996
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From: Curtis L Benjamin - K8AI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Opinion on Force 12 tribander
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:03:25 GMT
Organization: Iserv.net, Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Lines: 17
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does anyone out there like those Force 12 tribanders? I am trying to
decide which one to buy (KLM KT-34A, Hy Gain TH7DXS, or C-3). Seems
like the contesters are using the Force 12's. Any opinions?

Curt
_________________________________________________________
Curtis L Benjamin
Ionia MI
Amateur Radio - K8AI
(EX: KF8HN)
[e-mail]
K8AI@W8DC.#SWMI.MI.US.NA
[e-mail]
----------------------Romans 10:9------------------------
_________________________________________________________




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:19 1996
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From: Curtis L Benjamin - K8AI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Opinion on Force 12 tribander
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:06:26 GMT
Organization: Iserv.net, Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Lines: 17
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does anyone out there like those Force 12 tribanders? I am trying to
decide which one to buy (KLM KT-34A, Hy Gain TH7DXS, or C-3). Seems
like the contesters are using the Force 12's. Any opinions?

Curt
_________________________________________________________
Curtis L Benjamin
Ionia MI
Amateur Radio - K8AI
(EX: KF8HN)
[e-mail]
K8AI@W8DC.#SWMI.MI.US.NA
[e-mail]
----------------------Romans 10:9------------------------
_________________________________________________________




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:20 1996
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From: Curtis L Benjamin - K8AI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Opinion on Force 12 tribander
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:06:26 GMT
Organization: Iserv.net, Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Lines: 17
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does anyone out there like those Force 12 tribanders? I am trying to
decide which one to buy (KLM KT-34A, Hy Gain TH7DXS, or C-3). Seems
like the contesters are using the Force 12's. Any opinions?

Curt
_________________________________________________________
Curtis L Benjamin
Ionia MI
Amateur Radio - K8AI
(EX: KF8HN)
[e-mail]
K8AI@W8DC.#SWMI.MI.US.NA
[e-mail]
----------------------Romans 10:9------------------------
_________________________________________________________




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:21 1996
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From: Curtis L Benjamin - K8AI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Opinion on Force 12 tribander
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:06:27 GMT
Organization: Iserv.net, Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <57g0m3$[e-mail]>
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does anyone out there like those Force 12 tribanders? I am trying to
decide which one to buy (KLM KT-34A, Hy Gain TH7DXS, or C-3). Seems
like the contesters are using the Force 12's. Any opinions?

Curt
_________________________________________________________
Curtis L Benjamin
Ionia MI
Amateur Radio - K8AI
(EX: KF8HN)
[e-mail]
K8AI@W8DC.#SWMI.MI.US.NA
[e-mail]
----------------------Romans 10:9------------------------
_________________________________________________________




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: GAP Voyager Antenna ... any good ???
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:12:28 -0500
Organization: Anderson Desktop Publishing
Lines: 11
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NNTP-Posting-Host: dcc02685.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v1.01

I live in a 3rd floor condo and use attic antennas on 40 meters. I have
been thinking of installing an antenna at the XYL's mothers house in the
country so I can do some real hamming on my favorite band (40 Meters).
The GAP Voyager looks to be promising ... no radials ... and it's the
biggest of all of the commercial verticals at 45'. Does anyone have any
experience with this antenna or know of someone who does? Will it handle
full legal power? Thanks for your response.
--
Barry Anderson K3SUI
Frederick, MD. 21702
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:23 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:22:32 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 53
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References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Rich McAllister) writes:

>We're evaluating antennas for amateur use.  As amateurs, we are
>allowed to use as much RX gain as we want, but we're limited
>on the power *into* the antenna.  I'm sure a small loop operated
>just this side of meltdown would be heard just fine, but we can't
>do that.  Therefore, low-efficiency antennas can be, as far as we're
>concerned, "good RX, bad TX."
>
>Rich, now K6RFM.

That's exactly correct Rich.

Directivity is the predominate factor for receiving ability, while FS in a
desired direction (gain) is the predominate factor for transmitting
applications.

Efficiency or power loss affects gain but does not modify directivity.

An antenna with 20 dB directivity can have -20 dB gain for transmitting,
such an antenna would be great for receiving HF signals but pitiful for
transmitting.

Reciprocity only indicates pattern and efficiency are the same on
receiving and transmitting. It does NOT mean a good receiving antenna is a
good transmitting antenna, or vice versa.

In article <[e-mail]>, Mike Valentine
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Rl/Rr = 3430/((C^3)(f^3.5)(d))
>
>Where Rl = loss resistance
>      Rr = radiation resistance
>      C  = loop circumference, meters
>      f  = frequency, MHz
>      d  = loop conductor diameter, meters
>
>For C=1 meter, f=14 MHz, amd d=25 mm -> 3430/(31)(10,267)(.025)=0.431
>
>efficiency (k) = 1/(1+0.431) = 0.699   10 log (0.699)= -1.56 dB
>
>OK, I give up, how did I miss the extra dB's??
>
>Did I look up the wrong Kraus?  Is my math wrong? What facts did I get
>wrong?

The key is in the loss resistance. Where did the loss resistance come
from?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:24 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:22:34 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57du4v$6uu$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <57du4v$6uu$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(gudmundur) writes:

>I have always heard bad things about the AEA unit, but is the MFJ
>any better. Please don't be afraid to be honest. I own an MFJ and
>am sometimes surprised that it works as well as it does. Now a
>question for opinion, When I go out on field day, would an outbacker
>on the roof of my car be better than the MFJ superloop?

All you'll get is a wild guess unless you find someone that has measured
an Outbackers efficiency.

Even though the MFJ loop is the absolutely the most efficient of these two
loops, the Outbacker should be better *if* it is mounted in a good spot on
the car. The loops advantage is you don't need a car for a counterpoise,
and so it's easier to install in trees or attics.. (unless you drive real
bad :-).

Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:25 1996
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From: Chris <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Spiralray ???
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:46:46 -0500
Organization: Independent Trader
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]

try looking into circularly pol. beams. like the M2 2m-cp14
Don Brosseau wrote:
>
> This is Don AC5IM...I am looking for information about a antenna
> which was sold in the late 1950's. This was a 2 Meter Yagi
> design which skewed elements and worked equally well in all
> polarities. I hope to construct it if I can find information.
> Thanks for reading this.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: CCD Antenna (73's Nov Magazine)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:00:46 GMT
Organization: InterLog Internet Services
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227


Anyone know anything about this CCD Antenna that was written up in the
NOV 73 magazine?? Sounds interesting but it's a first for me.

In the magazine it explained that this dipole is build with 24 pieces
of 35" wire with a 390pf cap between each 35" wire.




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:27 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (System Administrator)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Non Delivery Report
Date: 27 Nov 96 01:16:00 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <c=US%a=ATTMAIL%p=ETNWHQ%l=[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

 Original subject: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #844
Reason: MS Mail Connector failed to deliver a message to MS Mail because
of a temporary problem on the MS Mail Connector Postoffice.
Please resend the original message.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: QST MOBILE
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 02:01:33 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn4.frazmtn.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:16:25 -0800, UN93B <[e-mail]> wrote:

>A year or two ago QST published an article that
>compared a half a dozen mobile antennas.
>One of them was the bugcatcher.
>  Does anyone know which issue it was in?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Brett

Hi Brett, September, 1995 QST (Visalia, dx convention mobile shootout)
              September, 1995, World Radio (Esparto, Ca mobile
shootout).
73, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:28 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Mike A. Frye)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FS:Neumann U87Ai
Date: 27 Nov 1996 02:02:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <57g7fj$[e-mail]>
References: <57dj14$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lbx-ca3-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 26  6:02:27 PM PST 1996

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:
>
>The transfer function on the neumanns is no better than on other
MODERN
>mikes. Add some compression, EQ, and a bit of reverb and delay and
save
>urself some $$$.
>73
>Chip N1IR
If you muck up the sound with all that, you could get by with a REALLY
cheap mic. M!


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:30 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.rio.com!news
From: "FUman" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 27 Nov 1996 02:28:05 GMT
Organization: kg7fu
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <01bbdc0a$ff402c40$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57f5ou$[e-mail]>
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> In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CDN) writes:
> >when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?
> >hmmmm

Maybe the jokes aren't funny. But neither is what lawyers are helping
to do to our hobby, our country and our world.

People oftn use humor to release frustration and tension. The cost of
doing business with and the results of lawyers causes both. No wonder
there are so many lawyer jokes.

Perhaps if lawyers had a canon of ethics which kept them from taking
frivolous cases, charging exorbanant rates, raping those who win large
judgement sums, and taking or making action that hurt groups like
amateur radio they would have a some respect from the general public.

Of course, some lawyer will try and justify or nullify the above. That's
what they do.


de kg7fu
=20





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:31 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!forge.sbt.net!news.ia.net!zeus.ia.net!kovar
From: [e-mail] (Jack Kovar  KE0AX)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: CUSHCRAFT ARX-270 construction?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 02:35:16 GMT
Organization: InterAccess Networking
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <57g9d4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.ia.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

        I am the proud owner of the well designed Radome designed

ARX-270 Cushcraft VHF/UHF verticle antenna.

Of the two weeks of use before Lightning struck is it was fantastic.

It was like a Beam rotating around at a fast rate.

70 miles to a mobile was common.

NOW I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET REPLACEMENT PARTS?

I have now burned about 45 minutes on the phone with Cushcraft and

AES to find out internal parts are not sold. I must buy the

whole 1/3 section with radome.

I have the internal workings disassembled on the basement floor.

All looks to be fine and repairable EXCEPT A SERIES CAPACITOR AT

THE TOP END OF THE ANTENNA.

Wish I knew what value and rating it was?

ANYBODY got any ideas?

This antenna cost over $200 and Insurance doesn't cover anything

on the tower.

Any suggestion would realy MAKE MY DAY!

This throw away landfill concept from large companies make me ill.

I wish they would just sell me a Capacitor.

                                Thanks,

                                        Jack Kovar
                                        K0VAR





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:33 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news
From: Douglas Berry <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.swap
Subject: Help Identifying Heliax Cable
Date: 27 Nov 1996 03:03:08 GMT
Organization: iSTAR internet Incorporated
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <57gb1c$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32094 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43121 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118920

Hello to all and thanks for reading this message

I recently acquired some surplus cable TV trunk line. I suspect the cable is 7
5 ohm but
not sure. The cable is 11/16 inch in diameter with black plastic coating over
an
aluminum jacket there is a white dialectric and a thick center condutor. the n
umbers
written on the wire are T10  J. On the reel there is a Type No T10625JBFV1 and
 below
that the number GN7GN. I would appreciate any help at identifying this wire wh
at it's
approxmatly worth and were I would be able to fine connector that would fit it
.

Thanks Again
73's  Doug  VA3DMB


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:35 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.mountain.net!usenet
From: ken coleman <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Titan and QRO?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:43:40 -0500
Organization: MountainNet, Inc. Morgantown WV 800.444.1458
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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To: [e-mail]

Gene Shablygin wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I need an advice. Last Sunday my Fritzel trap vertical died... I guess
> because
> all this kind of antenna can't handle more or less decent power. It
> could not
> withstand just 1300W. Similar thing happand a few years ago with my
> HyGain
> DX-77 (I melted the 80 meter trap with only 600 Wtts).
>
> Now I need to install something more rugged instead. I do not want traps
> any more,
> and the only commercial manufacturer who make trapless multiband
> vertical antennas
> I found so far, is GAP.
>
> But I am still not sure, if this thing, even without traps, will be able
> to handle the real
> legal limit.
>
> So if somebody had experience with using GAP (I am thinking about Titan)
> with their
> full power (I mean 8877 class) amplifier, the comments will be HIGHLY
> appreciated.
>
> One more question -- if anybody used GAPs in phased array
> configurations?
>
> And finally... if anybody compared Challenger to Titan?
>
> TNX
>
> Gene W3UA / RA3AA
Love my Gap Titan, but am only running 100 watts--just finished DXCC,
mostly 20m and 17m starting in '94--as sunspot cycle bottomed--have been
impressed with Titan.  But have no idea about "meltdown factor".

Ken, W8BSA/KB8PTT



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:36 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!sydney
From: [e-mail] (Sumeet Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Retractable Antennas - Question: Where to get a big one.
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 05:11:20 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, IL, US
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <57givf$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: sydney.res-hall.nwu.edu
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

I need a very long (7 Foot) retractable antenna that compresses to less than a

foot. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Sumeet Paul
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:36 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tezcat!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!206.58.0.35!news.structured.net!nntp.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx26-01
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Lenght of the reflector in the Y-U ?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 05:23:54 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57gj9u$[e-mail]>
References: <57294g$[e-mail]> <572vkg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx26-01.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Roy Lewallen wrote:
>> So I'm afraid that any simplified view of Yagi operation, involving how
>> long the elements should be or where they should be located, is likely
to
>> lead to wrong conclusions.
>
>Hi Roy, here's my simple-minded view of the two-equal-element antenna
>with one driven and the other parasitic. Elements are 34 ft long
>separated by 8 ft, 40 ft above an Arizona type ground.

>Just below 14.064 the antenna system is capacitive, the elements are
>too short and the parasitic element acts like a director.

>At 14.064 the antenna system is resonant and the radiation pattern is
>bi-directional.
>
>Just above 14.064 the antenna system is inductive, the elements are
>too long and the parasitic element acts like a reflector.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Why should a capacitive element always act like a director, an inductive
element a reflector, and a self-resonant element neither? The answer is:
they don't. Have you tried the EZNEC model I suggested?

Simple-minded views are fine, as long as they lead to the right
conclusions. The ones you've stated, unfortunately, don't.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL, OFC (charter member)


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:37 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tezcat!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!206.58.0.35!news.structured.net!nntp.teleport.com!nntp0.teleport.com!ip-pdx26-01
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Indoor Antenna Design
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 05:25:52 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <57gjdk$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx26-01.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>robert J. Mac Culloch wrote:
>> An indoor loop is a good indoor antenna,just string it around the corner
>> of the rooms of the int ire house or apartment,
>
>Hi Robert, wonder if this configuration will meet the new FCC radiation
>rules at any power higher than QRP?
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

It will unless you consider 50 watts to be QRP. As currently written, the
rules categorically exempt any antenna fed with 50 watts or less.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL, OFC (charter member)


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:38 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What We Really Need (Was: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:32:59 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <NEWTNews.4877.849028067.Postmaster@hfs08> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip110.phoenix.az.interramp.com
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)

Steve Ellington wrote:
> How about a mobile antenna survival shootout? The Hamstick should easily
> win this one. That's a factor seldom considered but should be. What other
> antenna can be replaced for $19.95 after a bout with the garage door?

Hi Steve, I think the Radio Shack 9ft steel whip would beat the Hamstick.
It's cheaper than a Hamstick, virtually indestructable, and tends to
damage the garage door. I use one with an autotuner and Hustler bottom
section to cover 20m-10m.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:39 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.crl.com!nexp.crl.com!usenet
From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hampage
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:40:43 -0800
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.113.223.131
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Just updated my hamradio page. Lots of new stuff and a few questions.
Also got my 1967 Camaro SS/RS pics up in jpg format so they will load
with Netscape.

Check it out and enjoy!!!!
73
kc6wfs dm04rk
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860/

--
Dave Booth


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:41 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Near/Far fields and in between
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:41:17 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip110.phoenix.az.interramp.com
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Don Huff wrote:
> The induction field falls of at a rate of 1/(distance)^3.
> Distances further than 1/6 wavelength are in the far-field, where the
> field strength falls off at the rate of 1/(distance)^2. Don, W6JL

Hi Don, the reference I read said the induction field falls off at
a rate proportional to the square of the distance. It said the
electrostatic field falls off at a rate proportional to the cube
of the distance.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Near/Far fields and in between
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:56:31 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip110.phoenix.az.interramp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)

Marty Gulseth wrote:
> I assume most replies will be posted to the group. If you receive any
> off group, please post them. I'm curious also! Marty - W7LEJ

Hi Marty, Email is faster than the postings so I have received
replies that haven't made it to the newsgroup yet.

For antennas longer than a 1/2WL center-fed or a 1/4WL vertical,
the calculation is somewhat complicated. For antennas equal to
or shorter than the above, the induction field is effectively gone
at 1 WL. So for the above types of antennas, I am picking 2 WL as
my rule-of-thumb distance. 150m for 75m band, 80m for 40m band, etc.
With my legs, one of my steps is almost exactly one meter. :-)

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!delphi.com!usenet
From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Can you operate HF Mobile from a Corvette????
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:04:20 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57f82n$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip110.phoenix.az.interramp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)

Patrick Tatro wrote:
> Is there enough metal (in a Corvette) to create a good
> antenna system? I don't want to start running coax and
> power lines if it's just a bad idea. Patrick N0WCG

Hi Patrick, I've got a friend who runs a rear bumper mount
and uses the Corvette frame as his ground plane. It
apparently causes some gain toward the front of the vehicle.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:44 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild![e-mail]
From: Tom <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:50:15 -0800
Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc.
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57f5ou$[e-mail]> <01bbdc0a$ff402c40$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32077 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20332 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1408 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43101 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21439 rec.radio.amateur.misc:118903 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43508 rec.radio.amateur.space:8920

FUman wrote:
>
> > In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CDN) writes:
> > >when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?
> > >hmmmm
>
> Maybe the jokes aren't funny. But neither is what lawyers are helping
> to do to our hobby, our country and our world.
>
> People oftn use humor to release frustration and tension. The cost of
> doing business with and the results of lawyers causes both. No wonder
> there are so many lawyer jokes.
>
> Perhaps if lawyers had a canon of ethics which kept them from taking
> frivolous cases, charging exorbanant rates, raping those who win large
> judgement sums, and taking or making action that hurt groups like
> amateur radio they would have a some respect from the general public.
>
> Of course, some lawyer will try and justify or nullify the above. That's
> what they do.
>
> de kg7fu
>


I won't try to nullify your argument...I'm ready for a return to the wild
west where things got settled with force instead of the law...


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:45 1996
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From: "jongman" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.satellite,alt.satellite.tv,alt.satellite.tv.crypt,alt.satellite.tv.europe,alt.satellite.tv.forsale,francom.radio_amateur,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,sci.astro.amateur
Subject: WENTED SPECIAL LNB'S WENTED
Date: 27 Nov 1996 06:55:30 GMT
Organization: transonic
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <01bbdc37$54d0c260$LocalHost@jongman>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zwl1-p60.worldonline.nl
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Hello,

I like to buy lnb's special X-BAND ,L-BAND,S-BAND if you have some
information.

Please E-mail [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:47 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP Voyager Antenna ... any good ???
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:03:45 -0800
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: Barry Anderson <[e-mail]>

Barry Anderson wrote:
> [e-mail]

Barry
I have a GAP Titan .  Installed it last april.  Real happy with it .  SWR
is grest on 80 to 6 meters.  Be happy to tell you more about it.
Lou
KB6FFT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Pedro Bastos)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need the scheme for a 10-15-20m or just 20m cubical quad.
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:45:09 GMT
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: por6_p15.telepac.pt
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

Need the scheme for a 10-15-20m or just 20m cubical quad.
If anybody can help I'll be very grateful.

73s de CT1FOV
Pedro Bastos



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:49 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: 27 Nov 1996 11:45:57 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57h9ll$[e-mail]>
References: <57dtns$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

I've not compared the Hamsticks to anything other than a Hustler but find
it to be very compareable in performance and nice in its lightweight
design that allows me to keep it on the car without guy strings.

Since installing a DX-70T just prior to the Dayton Hamvrnyion when I
bought Transel sticks for 20-40-75 I worked 65 countries including over
20 just on the ride home from Dayton.

I did find some problems with the construction quality of the Transel
sticks however. I noticed an intermittent SWR problem which was motion
related. As suspected it had to do with the soldering of the wire to the
base. It was a bad connection held in place mechanically only by the
heatwrap covering.

When I repaired the connection I also epoxyed the base of the antenna as
the fiberglass rod was loose in the base. According to Transel normal 1/2
inch shrink is used but I could not slip it over mine. I used normal
electrical tape to close the seam cut in the wrap.

I have since found the 3/4 inch schedule 40 PVC fits over the quick
disconnect very nicely and can be epoxy filled as a real nice support at
the base. A 9-12 inch portion will solidify the base nicely.

Robert Reed W2CE
1991 Route 37 West - Lot 109
Toms River, New Jersey 08757
United States of America



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Transel Hamsticks
Date: 27 Nov 1996 11:46:46 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57h9n6$[e-mail]>
References: <57dtns$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: innugap4-int.news.prodigy.com
X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

I've not compared the Hamsticks to anything other than a Hustler but find
it to be very compareable in performance and nice in its lightweight
design that allows me to keep it on the car without guy strings.

Since installing a DX-70T just prior to the Dayton Hamvrnyion when I
bought Transel sticks for 20-40-75 I worked 65 countries including over
20 just on the ride home from Dayton.

I did find some problems with the construction quality of the Transel
sticks however. I noticed an intermittent SWR problem which was motion
related. As suspected it had to do with the soldering of the wire to the
base. It was a bad connection held in place mechanically only by the
heatwrap covering.

When I repaired the connection I also epoxyed the base of the antenna as
the fiberglass rod was loose in the base. According to Transel normal 1/2
inch shrink is used but I could not slip it over mine. I used normal
electrical tape to close the seam cut in the wrap.

I have since found the 3/4 inch schedule 40 PVC fits over the quick
disconnect very nicely and can be epoxy filled as a real nice support at
the base. A 9-12 inch portion will solidify the base nicely.

Robert Reed W2CE
1991 Route 37 West - Lot 109
Toms River, New Jersey 08757
United States of America



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:52 1996
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From: John Ferguson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need 'Copper Cactus' info.
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:03:52 -0500
Organization: Delaware Technical & Community College
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: outland.dtcc.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: jferg@outland

     Some period of time ago there was an interesting posting of the
"Copper Cactus Antenna".  I can't find my copy. Could someone repost it or
direct me to the author. Thanks.

BCNU, 73.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 JFERG @ OUTLAND.DTCC.EDU           /      Bend it to fit.....
 John S. Ferguson K3PFW             /      Paint it to match.
 Delaware Tech. & Comm. College-Owens Campus, Georgetown DE 19947 USA
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:53 1996
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From: "Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:16:39 -0700
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57dtns$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57h9ll$[e-mail]>
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Robert Reed wrote:
> I've not compared the Hamsticks to anything other than a Hustler but find
> it to be very compareable...

Hi Robert, I have what once was a 40m Hamstick on my truck. I unwound
the stock coil and replaced it with a high-Q coil. Boosted my signal by
about 2 'S' units on N5AQM's receiver. I plan to run some field strength
tests to compare original Hamsticks to my modified Hamstick. The new coil
cost virtually nothing and was wrapped the size of a small Quaker oatmeal
box on a homemade form cut from scrap plexiglas and epoxied together.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:54 1996
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:00:26 -0600
From: Bruce <[e-mail]>
Organization: R. S.  Inc.
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,dfw.forsale,tx.forsale,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
CC: tk-370info
Subject: (no subject)
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.swap:96850 dfw.forsale:48447 tx.forsale:32229 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32078

somebody have programing info for the kenwood tk-370 radio,please
e-mailme
Armando
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:55 1996
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From: Mike Valentine <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:03:25 -0500
Organization: Valentine Research, Inc.
Lines: 31
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:

> >Rl/Rr = 3430/((C^3)(f^3.5)(d))
> >
> >Where Rl = loss resistance
> >      Rr = radiation resistance
> >      C  = loop circumference, meters
> >      f  = frequency, MHz
> >      d  = loop conductor diameter, meters
> >
> >For C=pi, f=14 MHz, amd d=25 mm -> 3430/(31)(10,267)(.025)=0.431
> >
> >efficiency (k) = 1/(1+0.431) = 0.699   10 log (0.699)= -1.56 dB
> >
> >OK, I give up, how did I miss the extra dB's??
> >
> >Did I look up the wrong Kraus?  Is my math wrong? What facts did I get
> >wrong?
>
> The key is in the loss resistance. Where did the loss resistance come
> from?
>
> 73 Tom

The loss resistance came from J.D. Kraus, Antennas, 2nd Edition, 1988,
pp. 257-258.  Or did you mean God made it?   As in: Where did
electromagnitism come from?

73

Mike - W8MM


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:56 1996
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From: [e-mail] (riot nrrrd)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: "folding" dipoles
Date: 27 Nov 1996 17:22:33 GMT
Organization: Long Island Information, Inc.  516-INTERNET
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <57htcp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rowan.liii.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

assuming you have the proper about of wire (by the standard 468/Mhz
formula, less trimming), does the dipole need to have any particular
"shape"  (say, can i fold it back on itself, bend it around corners,
etc?)  i know there's bound to be some penalty in performance, but
is it workable?


--
73 de Dave Weingart  KB2CWF                 "Can you find the Valium?
mailto:[e-mail]                     Can you bring it soon?
mailto:[e-mail]        Lost Johnny's out there
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux                Baying at the Moon"
                                                   -- Hawkwind

BY SENDING UNSOLICTED, COMMERCIAL SPAM EMAIL TO THIS ADDRESS, YOU HEREBY
AGREE TO RECEIVE UP TO 20 MEGABYTES OF RANDOM CORE DUMP INFORMATION.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:57 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 10:46:29 PDT
Organization: TAC, The Atlanta Connection and Radio.Org
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57f5ou$[e-mail]>  <01bbdc0a$ff402c40$[e-mail]>
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In Article<01bbdc0a$ff402c40$[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes:
> Path: news.radio.org!metro.atlanta.com!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nnt
p.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.rio.com!news
> From: "FUman" <[e-mail]>
> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.rad
io.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio
.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
> Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
> Date: 27 Nov 1996 02:28:05 GMT
> Organization: kg7fu
> Lines: 25
> Message-ID: <01bbdc0a$ff402c40$[e-mail]>
> References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]
.ac.uk> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac
8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57f5ou$22h@
cc.iu.net>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: p59.t0.rio.com
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al.misc:9027 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1192 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24086 rec.r
adio.amateur.homebrew:11023 rec.radio.amateur.misc:29505 rec.radio.amateur.pol
icy:12573 rec.radio.amateur.space:3862
>
> > In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CDN) writes:
> > >when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?
> > >hmmmm
>
> Maybe the jokes aren't funny. But neither is what lawyers are helping
> to do to our hobby, our country and our world.
>
> People oftn use humor to release frustration and tension. The cost of
> doing business with and the results of lawyers causes both. No wonder
> there are so many lawyer jokes.
>
> Perhaps if lawyers had a canon of ethics which kept them from taking
> frivolous cases, charging exorbanant rates, raping those who win large
> judgement sums, and taking or making action that hurt groups like
> amateur radio they would have a some respect from the general public.
>
> Of course, some lawyer will try and justify or nullify the above. That's
> what they do.
>
>
> de kg7fu
> =20
>
>
>
YEA! YOU TELL'EM JAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

de kd6clo   :)



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Hellman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MATCHING PUZZLE
Date: 27 Nov 96 17:51:05 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]




 Adding parasitic elements to a driven element should reduce the drive
 impedance appreciably.  However I am puzzled by  the strange procedure
offered by Mosely. How does it work?
First the driven element was purchased alone and used as a three element
dipole. Later the reflector and still later the director at different
times. All the while
the same 52 ohm coax produced a good match.
I would appreciate an explanation.
Charlie,w2rp







From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:30:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Hellman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: CORRECTION FOR MATCHING PUZZLE
Date: 27 Nov 96 18:01:07 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

PLEASE CORRECT TEXT IN MY  QUERY. DRIVEN DIPOLE FUNCTIONS AS A THREE BAND
DIPOLE .
W2RP



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!nntp.crl.com!news.pbi.net!news.pacbell.net!usenet
From: Robert Ogburn <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: DDRR
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:15:06 -0800
Organization: REAssociates GmbH (USA)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-206-170-1-210.snfc21.pacbell.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> re: Deluxe Dual Ring Resonator (DDRR)
>
> While watching Star Trek: First Contact, did anyone else notice the
> tower in the background of the Alaska scene?
>
> Description: What I noticed was a tower, approximately 70 feet high,
> isolated from ground.  It had two rings on it which may or may not
> have been radiators...
<snip>

Try Directional Discontinunity Ring Radiator


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (JAMES MCEWEN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop
Date: 27 Nov 96 18:16:55 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

     Don, W6JL, writes:

     > I suspect the size chosen for these loops has to do more
     > with shipping and assembly convenience and minimizing material
     > cost than anything else.

     Don, while you may be partially correct, minimum capacitance of
     the tuning cap/loop circuit is the limiting factor if you want to
     design something that will tune at 10 meters (this is also a
     marketing decision). The size of the loop (inductance) has to be
     resonant with the total capacitance at ~30 MHz.  This establishes
     the maximum allowable size of your loop if you want to cover 10
     to 31 meters.  You can of course change parameters like diameter
     of the loop tubing, which will allow you a different size loop,
     but the L*C relationship remains the same.
     The efficiency goes down as the loop circumference becomes a
     smaller % of the wavelength, so this is a sort of limit to the
     lowest frequency that a given size loop will perform well on.
     These two factors, minimum capacitance and acceptable efficiency,
     set the frequency bounds of a given loop size.

     Jim KA6TPR






From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Near/Far fields and in between
Date: 27 Nov 1996 18:33:01 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, "Cecil A. Moore"
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>For antennas longer than a 1/2WL center-fed or a 1/4WL vertical,
>the calculation is somewhat complicated. For antennas equal to
>or shorter than the above, the induction field is effectively gone
>at 1 WL. So for the above types of antennas, I am picking 2 WL as
>my rule-of-thumb distance. 150m for 75m band, 80m for 40m band, etc.
>With my legs, one of my steps is almost exactly one meter. :-)
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Cecil,

The distance that far field occurs is proportional to the physical size of
the antenna.

It is given as:

P = 2D^2 / WL where D is the diameter of a sphere that would totally
enclose the radiator and P is the distance where the Fraunhofer region
begins.

With a smaller radiator, the near field disappears closer.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:06 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 18:33:04 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, Don Huff <[e-mail]> writes:

>Hi Rick,
>
>  Concerning the "flat" vs "round" argument for small transmitting
>loops:  The skin effect at 14 MHz means that the majority of RF current
>flows in the top 0.0008" or so of metal.  A flat strip will work the
>same as a round conductor, since either of them is so thick compared to
>this small "skin" of metal carrying the RF current, that the current is
>unaware of current existing on the other side of the (relatively) thick
>conductor.  Therefore, I can see no reason to expect that the efficiency
>of either shape is better.  It is the total conductor surface area, the
>material's conductivity, the surface condition, and most importantly the
>connections, that are important.

Hi Don,

The current is forced to the edges of a flat strip. You can measure that
effect, or read about it in Terman. I have done both.

The problem is not related to one side influencing the other, the problem
is current flowing in a flat conductor (without a groundplane or
counterpoise supplying opposing effects nearby) creates fields that "push"
the current to the outside edges of the sheet.

I measured this effect in the current through the shield thread. It was
plainly evident when I excited a 3 inch wide piece of copper sheet with 2
MHz RF. Current was very much concentrated at the edges of the sheet. That
thread made me re-think several things, including recommending in manuals
that people use wide flashing for grounds.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 27 Nov 1996 18:47:31 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <57i2c3$[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]>, Mike Valentine <[e-mail]>
writes:

>Or did you mean God made it?   As in: Where did electromagnitism come
from?
>
>73
>
>Mike - W8MM

Here we go again!  He or She... or Both, since this is such a polarizing
subject..

      <chuckle>

//-----------------------------
Mike - W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Howard Sherer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Subject: FS MFJ hi-q loop ant #1786 w/autotuner
Date: 27 Nov 1996 18:59:30 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs2-2.con.ptd.net
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32107 rec.radio.swap:96925

For Sale MFJ 1786 hi q loop ant with auto tuner great condition and works
great. $210. Howard AE3T


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:08 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Jens Goerke)
Subject: Re: U have 6 meter Yagi plans?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Organization: Private Multi-Site
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:01:36 GMT
Lines: 19

Rich Fortnum ([e-mail]) wrote:
> Would anybody have any information on a 3-element Yagi (horizontal) for
> 6 meters?  Looking for forward gain.

Measurements in centimeters:

Director:  182
Spacing:    48
Dipole:    192
Spacing:    62
Reflector: 202

Hope that helps,
        Jens, DB9LL
--
at work: [e-mail], [e-mail] (http://barbara.combtx.com/~jg)
at home: [e-mail]
at play: jg@beach, griffin@rpg, db9ll@g-qrp/darc
Here in Germany, commercial use of personal data without permission


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:10 1996
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From: Dan O'Connell <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Dual Rhombic
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:24:12 -0800
Organization: Oregon State System of Higher Education
Lines: 10
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On 26 Nov 1996, Ian Cummings wrote:

> I sent him a letter today inquiring about his design and specifically the
> feeding of the pair.
>
>                       Ian
I'd like to hear about it when you get the info   Dan WA7TDZ



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:11 1996
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From: "Chuck (Jack) Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:34:29 -0600
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Lines: 47
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Mike Valentine wrote:
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > >Rl/Rr = 3430/((C^3)(f^3.5)(d))
> > >
> > >Where Rl = loss resistance
> > >      Rr = radiation resistance
> > >      C  = loop circumference, meters
> > >      f  = frequency, MHz
> > >      d  = loop conductor diameter, meters
> > >
> > >For C=pi, f=14 MHz, amd d=25 mm -> 3430/(31)(10,267)(.025)=0.431
> > >
> > >efficiency (k) = 1/(1+0.431) = 0.699   10 log (0.699)= -1.56 dB
> > >
> > >OK, I give up, how did I miss the extra dB's??
> > >
> > >Did I look up the wrong Kraus?  Is my math wrong? What facts did I get
> > >wrong?
> >
> > The key is in the loss resistance. Where did the loss resistance come
> > from?
> >
> > 73 Tom
>
> The loss resistance came from J.D. Kraus, Antennas, 2nd Edition, 1988,
> pp. 257-258.  Or did you mean God made it?   As in: Where did
> electromagnitism come from?
>
> 73
>
> Mike - W8MM

Arrrggg! I think Tom means "where did the loss resistance come from"? As
in the answer being that it is a calculation of Kraus' for the loss
resistance of a wire or tube of a certain circumference considering the
skin effect. Kraus does not include any consideration of joints,
connections, variable capacitor welds, etc. in his derivation of the
loss resistance. So I guess that using his equation for calculating the
efficiency of an AEA loop which has all these other things that can
contribute to the loss resistance is misleading...perhaps even
intentionally misleading.
Now all you guys know this......why do you all sound like lawyers?

Chuck, KE9UW



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (JAMES MCEWEN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Retractable Antennas - Question: Where to get a big
Date: 27 Nov 96 20:20:43 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

     Sumeet Paul wrote:

     > I need a very long (7 Foot) retractable antenna that compresses
     > to less than a foot.

     In 1973, when I was in the Army Security Agency, they had an
     experimental antenna that looked like two steel measuring tapes,
     back to back. The curve of the tapes () provided the support.
     They were mounted in a package about 1 foot long, and 8 inches
     high, including the motors to extend them.  I don't remember the
     total height when extended, but 8-10 foot would be my guess.  The
     experiments were being done at USASA Material Support Command,
     Vint Hill Farm Station, Warrington, VA.  You might look for
     information through the National Technology Transfer Center,
     (NTTC), 1-800-678-6882, they provide a free search service and
     contact point for federal labs and technology information.

     Jim KA6TPR



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jeremy Boot)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
The G4NJH Radio Pages
Christmas Edition

        http://www.innotts.co.uk/~asperges/

Nearly 25,000 visitors and growing... Don't miss it.

* Pages for old and new enthusiasts.
* Friendly - not just a collection of links;
* Updated for Christmas;
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* Christmas MENSA puzzle;
* Free giveaways in December (as soon as RA3AKR sends it to me!)

73 de Jeremy G4NJH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:16 1996
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From: Robert Barron <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Opinion on Force 12 tribander
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:57:16 -0600
Organization: Liant Software
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57g0gd$[e-mail]>
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Curtis L Benjamin - K8AI wrote:
>
> does anyone out there like those Force 12 tribanders? I am trying to
> decide which one to buy (KLM KT-34A, Hy Gain TH7DXS, or C-3). Seems
> like the contesters are using the Force 12's. Any opinions?

The University of Texas Amateur Radio Club (W5EHM) installed a C-4
earlier this year.  It's a C-3 with the optional 40M rotatable dipole
on the same boom.

Although I can not give you any solid numbers I can say that so far
the heavy-duty users of the station have good reports about its
performance.  We have not noticed any decrease in W5EHM's ability
to work stations (the old antenna was a 4 element Wilson that was
damaged in a wind storm).

The antennas can be expensive but they are easy to put together
and seem to perform well.

Good luck.

73,

Robert KA5WSS
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:17 1996
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From: [e-mail](Dan Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Coupling external antenna to AM radio
Date: 27 Nov 1996 21:02:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <57ia94$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca23-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Nov 27  3:02:28 PM CST 1996

I want to connect an external antenna to an AM radio that has an
internal ferrite rod antenna. I saw a 'magnetic coupling device'
advertised that sticks to the back of the radio case and converts a
coax signal to the internal antenna.

Does anyone have a circuit for this?

Sounds similar to a through-the-glass type of antenna mount.

Thanks de KE6LBX




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:18 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need design for 900 MHz SS Cordless phone
Date: 27 Nov 1996 21:07:23 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Admin: [e-mail]

The C. Crane Company (1-800-522-8863) sells an outboard antenna for the
900 Mhz phones for $64.95! All it is ---is a 19" rubber duck on an angle
bracket for outdoor mounting with a length of coax to the phone antenna
(inductively coupled). No big deal. Save yourself $64.95 and slap one
together with some bus wire, spare coax and an alligator clip.

-jt


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:19 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 21:51:08 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <57id4c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Tom said:
Tom said:
The current is forced to the edges of a flat strip. You can measure that
effect, or read about it in Terman. I have done both.


        See Terman, Radio Engineer's Handbook 1943 page 54 Fig 3

        However, for a ground strip you mioght be more concerned
with reactance than resistance.

Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 22:11:22 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <57ieaa$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


correction on previous posting:

Tom said:
The current is forced to the edges of a flat strip. You can measure that
effect, or read about it in Terman. I have done both.


        See Terman, Radio Engineer's Handbook 1943 page 54 Fig 3

        However, for a ground strip you mioght be more concerned
with reactance than resistance.

Charlie, W7XC

Correction:    page 34 of Terman

Sori about that

Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:21 1996
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From: Henry <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.jobs,alt.job,misc.jobs.offered,us.jobs.misc,us.jobs.offered,alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,alt.ham.radio.disitalvoice,sci.electronic.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.difital,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: CA: SALES MANGER WANTED
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:28:04 -0800
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Position for immediate consideration

        Sales Manger

Location:

        Walnut, California (20 Miles from Los Angeles )

Requirements:

* Knowledge of Ham & Commercial Radio Marketing
* Positive attitude and Excellent Customer Skill
* Willing to Travel
* Experience Necessary
* Live in Los Angeles /Orange County Area

TO APPLY FOR THIS POSITION PLZ SEND RESUME TO


        e-mail:         [e-mail]

                or

        Fax     [phone]





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:23 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: "folding" dipoles
Date: 27 Nov 1996 23:33:55 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57htcp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Dave--

Yes indeed, you can fold 'em, or put coils in 'em, or capacitively load
'em.  However, I generally don't recommend folding 'em in the center if
you can help it (say out to around 1/8-wave either side of center).  That
way, you'll preserve the high-current portion of the radiator--and allow
it to do Maxwell's work with minimal disruption.  If you DO fold it, you
may find the 468 formula does not strictly apply. The key is to think
about how and why a dipole radiates--and then try not to do too many bad
things to the good parts.

Rick K1BQT

(Folding dipoles is not great, but better than smashing pumpkins).


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:24 1996
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From: miker <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rubber antennas with SMA connector
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:43:17 -0800
Organization: Hevanet Communications
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <579irt$[e-mail]> <19961124112422.reid@frank_reid.electronics.indiana.edu>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43172 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32128

Frank Reid wrote:
>
> In Article <579irt$[e-mail]> "[e-mail] (Erik Fi
nskas)" says:
> > The FT-50's antenna works well, but it is not so sensitive at outbands
> > VHF, nor UHF and it is bit too long for FT-50...
> >
> > So if there is a source for rubber duckies with SMA-connector, please give
> > me a pointer through email!
> >
> > Erik
> > --
> > Erik Finskas OH2LAK / M1AAJ
> > Email [e-mail]
> >       [e-mail]
> > GSM 040-500 6800
> >
> The Standard C-108A 2m h-t and its dual-band cousin use SMA rubber duckies,
> so replacements are probably available.  I don't know a specific source.
>
> --
>
> Frank     [e-mail]    W9M

FYI, I have a standard c508.  The stock antenna makes a really good
dummy load.  It's also so narrow that I can't receive the local weather
on
162.55.
miker


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:25 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick...any opinions?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:50:25 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <57ir6k$[e-mail]>
References: <572fia$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Bob Lewis <[e-mail]> wrote:


>>
>> I disagree with the comments on antennas.  I have been using a hamstick
>> clone for some time on several bands.  I find it to not be the match of
>> a bug catcher on 80 and 40 ( down an S unit or so) but the equal or
>> better than the hustler especialy on the higher bands. Providing of
>> course you take the time to really match the antenna (not just use a
>> tuner). I would used additional capactance at the base (silver mica) on
>> (80 and 40 on a bumper mount) and get SWR easliy under 1.5 to 1 at
>> resonance. The value need depends on your setup (anywhere for 100 to 600
>> pf) I got very good signal reports on 40m mobile with no tuner and a
>> TS-140S for several years. ( and you do not need any fishing line to guy
>> it!!)
>>
>> John / W8JX

>I use a 2:1 UNUN with my Hamsticks and get a good match at resonance
>(1.2 : 1 or so) on all Hamsticks 75 meters through 10 meters. UNUN is in
>the base, no capacitors or coil taps to change when changing bands.

I also have had good luck with Hamstick and clone antennas.  I
commuted 45 miles each way for about 5 years doing 40m CW.  I talked
with the same group every weekday morning.  I was constantly
comparing antennas with the group, often pulling over and switching to
a different on.  I tried quite a few different configurations before I
ended up with a big bugcatcher.  However, the second best of all of
the installations was a Hamstick.  If  you figure in the cost, size
and ease of mounting, you can't beat it.  I have not tried one on 80
or 160, as I feel that is pushing the technology.

One rough metric I used was 2:1 bandwidth.  Assuming that a narrower
bandwidth indicates less loss, the Hamstick came in second again.
About 20Khz for the bugcatcher, 40 khz for the Hamstick, and over 100
khz for the Hustler.  These measurements were all on 40.

On 20m, you start getting pretty good efficiency.  I used to drive
home working Eastern Europe every night without fail on CW.

Dudley WA1X



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:26 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Thanksgiving
Date: 27 Nov 96 23:59:08 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

HI All:

I want to take a moment to wish you and yours a very Happy Thanksgiving.

At these times I like to kick back and reflect, and as the name implies, give
thanks for the things that are really important to us in todays crazy world.
 To ME, that means family, friends, your health.  Your children, your
grandchildren, your spouse.  Having been born in the USA.

Terry and I always talk about how lucky we are.  We are both 42 years old,
and STILL HAVE ALL FOUR PARENTS.  (You should have seen Mom doing the
*Macerina* at Mom and Dad's 50th anniversary party).

Happy Thanksgiving.
Bob



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dudley Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:04:15 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57is2l$[e-mail]>
References: <57dtns$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57h9ll$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Server-Date: 28 Nov 1996 02:06:13 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Cecil A. Moore" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hi Robert, I have what once was a 40m Hamstick on my truck. I unwound
>the stock coil and replaced it with a high-Q coil. Boosted my signal by
>about 2 'S' units on N5AQM's receiver. I plan to run some field strength
>tests to compare original Hamsticks to my modified Hamstick. The new coil
>cost virtually nothing and was wrapped the size of a small Quaker oatmeal
>box on a homemade form cut from scrap plexiglas and epoxied together.

>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Cecil,
    I like your style.  You seem to have accumulated a wealth of
knowledge of antenna theory and can apply it with some street smarts
as well.

    One more comment about Hamsticks and ProAm clones.  I had
mechanical trouble with each brand, where the wire would break at the
base, and the fiberglass mast would work loose from the base as well.
I was using them in Eastern Mass. with ice and snow storms.  I was
able to fix them sometimes, and other times has to buy new ones.  Even
with that kind of trouble, due to the cheap price and unobtrusive
profile, I still considered them a good deal.

    One advantage I found to the big fishing line guyed bugcatcher I
ended up with is that nice looking YLs would notice it and smile at me
as they passed.  Of course, they were thinking to themselves  "what a
nerd", but it did help pass the time.  In the summer time, I even got
a few people yelling to me from their open car windows asking "what is
that thing?".  Now that I no longer do CW mobile, I kind of miss
standing out like that.

dudley  WA1X




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:29 1996
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From: Raj Singh <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hamstick opinions - Thanks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:46:38 -0800
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57dtns$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57h9ll$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Hi:

Would you mind posting the details of this modification to the HAmstick.
I would like to try it out.
Thanks es 73
Raj VE6RAJ


Cecil A. Moore wrote:
>
> Hi Robert, I have what once was a 40m Hamstick on my truck. I unwound
> the stock coil and replaced it with a high-Q coil. Boosted my signal by
> about 2 'S' units on N5AQM's receiver. I plan to run some field strength
> tests to compare original Hamsticks to my modified Hamstick. The new coil
> cost virtually nothing and was wrapped the size of a small Quaker oatmeal
> box on a homemade form cut from scrap plexiglas and epoxied together.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:31 1996
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From: Rick Perry <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Force 12 ?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:38:37 -0800
Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C.
Lines: 6
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Seeing some adds again for the Force 12 antenna systems.  I would be
interested in the C-4XL (2 el. on 40 + 20 and up).  Any comments on the
construction, performance, etc.  I live in ice and snow country not alot
of wind.

73's  Rick W7AV


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (R.Moroney)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RE: Windoms
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:46:34 -0500
Organization: FredNet - Frederick, Md.
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <57djvl$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: windbrkr.fred.net
X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v1.01

Hey, don't laugh...

During a recent morning commute listen on one of the local 2m repeaters,
I heard a guy talking about putting up "some kind of antenna" to get back
on HF after moving to a new neighborhood with, presumably, restrictions
on what sort of antenna structures can grace the local skyline.  The guy
actually did mention "Zepp" as one of the candidate antennas for his new
QTH, so I guess the technology is alive and well, at least in "3" land.
Perhaps he lives in one of the many local historical districts, with
protective covenants restricting what can be done on and to a property.
He may only be able to put up "historically-compatible" antennas
(aerials?) such as the Zepp...  ;-)

Anyway, as of this past Monday, the Windom technology is also alive and
well in MD, since I hoisted the mighty Antennas West TNT Windom up into
the trees behind the house.  I felt a bit edgy without the validation of
the ARRL Antenna Handbook, but so far, so good, with no electrocutions or
RF incinerations, at least of family members or pets...   ;-)

73, Bob K9CMR


In article <57djvl$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
> Yeah, the ARRL drops the Windom from the HANDBOOK and next thing you
> know, it's a no-code free-for-all with vanity calls to the highest
> bidder!
>
> The handbook is full of irrelevant, little-used antenna lore. One of my
> faves is the "END-FED ZEPP". (Sounds very roaring-twenties, don't it?
> Can't you picture some kid in a racoon coat signing "FB OM. RIG HR IS
> FORD SPARK COIL ES ANT IS END FED ZEPP"?) I have never met anybody who
> used or claimed to have used one, but I'm dying to know if the silly
> thing works.
>
>
>                    half wave
> -----oOOo-oOOo-------------------------oOOo----
>     |    |
>     |    |
>     |    |
>   open wire feeders (of course!)
>
>
> -joe WB1GFH
>
>
>


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Copper Cactus antenna
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 02:53:30 GMT
Organization: SOCKET Internet Services INN Site
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

Within the past several days (of Nov 27th), someone pastes an inquiry
about anyone having information on the "Copper Cactus", published in
the Feb. '92 issue of "73 Magazine".

While I no longer have the original post,and thus don't know who the
inquirer was, I _do_ have copies of the article.

If you read this and wish to obtain a copy of the article, drop me
e-mail and I'll arrange to get a copy to you.

73 - Tom Hammond   [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:35 1996
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:17:09 -0600
From: Willis <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Get The Key Man !
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U)
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.swap:97105 dfw.forsale:48539 tx.forsale:32279 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32154

Bruce wrote:
>
> somebody have programing info for the kenwood tk-370 radio,please
> e-mailme
> Armando
> [e-mail]

greetings. nice to hear from you.

please post some warez.

thank you

and send me a list of adult sites and passwords

thanks

your friend

pete


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W T Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: inverted V
Date: 28 Nov 1996 04:35:11 GMT
Organization: Another Netscape News Server User
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <wtshaw-2711962340330001@207.17.188.148>
References: <57e7bp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.17.188.148

In article <57e7bp$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dave
Harrison) wrote:

> What sort of performance  can I expect from a 20m inverted V, where the
> center height is about 18' ■╬and the ends are at about 10'.  Would a
> ground mounted vertical be a better choice?

The inverted vee has good features worth noting, lower noise than a
vertical, no ground system is really needed, easy to trim near the ground
to best SWR (slightly longer than a quarter wave per leg), and tends to
cause less TVI than a vertical.

About performance, great for field day/sweepstakes, and not so bad for dx
if you adjust the height of the feedpoint to get the best angle of
radiation.   Put the thing on a pulley system so you don't have to lower
the support.  Try different heights to see what works best since true
ground level and effective ground level may be different

Bill, k5pcw
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
 Orpnhfr gur yrnfg ovg bs rapelcgvba frrzf
 zlfgvslvat gb zbfg, zbfg pbzcyrk sbezf frrz
   gbgnyyl haarprffnel gb gur fnzr sbyxf.
          http://www.htcomp.net/wts/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: SPICE model for standard diple?
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 07:18:57 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <57jedm$[e-mail]>
References: <57iiae$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx06-33.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <57iiae$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Thomas Mahanna) wrote:
>
>Is there such a beast? Where would I find it? Or how would  I model a
>standard dipole in SPICE?
>
>Thanks for any replies,
>Tom

An interesting question. A series RLC will do a reasonable job over a
narrow frequency range, but I'd think you'd need a model which includes a
transmission line and frequency-dependent resistance for a model which
extends to several bands. There must be some lumped component models for
intermediate cases -- I'd be interested in knowing what they look like.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:40 1996
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From: Folkert Geurink <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: How to use WARC gp on other bands
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:40:39 +0100
Organization: Interfaculty Reactor Institute
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mostar.iri.tudelft.nl
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Hi !

I wonder if it is possible to tune my gp for 10,18 and 24 MHz ( FRITZEL
WARC ) to the other ham bands. Until now i didn't succeed with any
tuner. In my opinion the antenna should be capacitive at 7 MHz and
inductive at the 14,21 and 28 MHz bands but maybe the trouble is caused
by the traps which bandwidth is too big.
Can anyone give me a practical solution ?

73, Folkert PA3CQR

E-mail   : [e-mail]
Homepage : http://irian1.iri.tudelft.nl/users/pa3cqr/pa3cqr.htm


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:41 1996
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From: "George J. Molnar" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Can you operate HF Mobile from a Corvette????
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 06:52:38 -0500
Organization: Molnar & Associates, Inc
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57f82n$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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To: Patrick Tatro <[e-mail]>

Patrick Tatro wrote:
>
> I've been operating HF from my 89 GMC van for a
> number of years now. I'll soon be using a 75
> Corvette as my main means of transportation.
>
>    Is there enough metal to create a good antenna
> system? I don't want to start running coax and
> power lines if it's just a bad idea.

Go for it! Half the fun is experimenting, after all...

You should have "enough" metal in there to work a good antenna against.
There is a metal frame underneath the fiberglass, right? Sounds like a
great project & a super time. Good luck.

73 (no 's)

--
George J. Molnar (KF2T)
Molnar & Associates, Inc.
Lebanon, New Hampshire
Respond to: [e-mail]
Web Site: http://www.cyberportal.net/gmolnar/index.html


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick De Gagne)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:59:16 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <579cff$[e-mail]>
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*  Kenneth E. Harker wrote:
>>>
>>>      I commute to work/school every day on my bicycle and I've recently
>>> decided that I'd like to operate bicycle mobile.  I already have a
>>> dual-band FM HT, but I'm interested in hearing from others about the best
>>> way to accomplish the rest of the setup.
>>>
>>> What are people's opinions of the
>>> earbud-mic arrangement?

As soon as the snow disappearts from the scenery here in Montreal, I
bike a lot and of course I like having my Icom IC-W31 with me at all
times.

When on my bike, I also carry a small good quality backpack which has
a good stable harnest system (with waist belt).  So, the radio goes in
the utility pocket on the backpack, rubber duck antenna sticking out
the top.

For speaker and mic arrangement, I use the large HM-54 speaker-mike
which I clip on my pack's left shoulder strap.  It's stable, loud and
I reach all the repeaters I want to use.

I have nothing mounted on my bike as it is a mountain bike and it gets
a really rough ride (I like to offroad a lot!)

Pat

--
  \/  Scouter Pat  -  Patrick De Gagne  -    Montreal, Canada
  /\   Dollard Des Ormeaux Scouts & Venturers
 /  \   http://www.cam.org/~pdg       IRC: I-Spy on #Scouting
/    \   [e-mail]  - VE2VFD -  I used to be a Flying Frog!


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Bowes)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 300 ohm feeder for vhf/uhf runs ???
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:24:54 GMT
Organization: Czech Ecological Institute
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <57k3od$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.12.59
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Dear all readers !

I have a small dilemma concerning the installation of my airband
(cil/mil) antenna on top of our flats. Unfortunately I leave on the
ground floor and the coax run to the top will be approx 28m. I am
quite anxious about the loss of signal after spending the extra money
on a long coax run. I can it coming that having battled with it all
the gain from the antenna will the same as having it just outside the
window. VIEWS on that point would be great, please.

THEN - today I read an article about somebody using 300 ohm ribbon
feeder which has a much lower loss over long runs than does RG58.
I have here a number of small 300 - 75 ohm baluns from the TV junk
shop so matching the cables is not a problem. Would it be worth trying
it with the 300 ohm cable or just sticking with the RG58 ?????

Thanks for you attention and advice.


JB





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 28 Nov 1996 13:41:21 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
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In article <[e-mail]>, "Chuck (Jack) Hawley"
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Arrrggg! I think Tom means "where did the loss resistance come from"? As

<<SNIP>>

>Now all you guys know this......why do you all sound like lawyers?
>Chuck, KE9UW

I didn't mean to sound like a lawyer Chuck. Mike asked where he could have
made a mistake, and I was only pointing out that resistance was the likely
place to look. I still have no idea where the resistance data came from,
unless someone had a table listing the AEA loop.

Without direct measurement, it is impossible to accurately know the
resistance of a material whose surface has been altered by brushing and
anodizing. Especially when that unknow resistance conductor is connected
in series with a capacitor that has a long current path.

If that isn't enough, the capacitor hangs down in the axis of the antenna.
We can be sure that big hunk of current carrying metal reduces the
radiation resistance.

If I wanted an efficient small loop, I'd make the capacitor as compact as
I could, the slightest amount of series inductance can greatly reduce ESR
of the capacitor.

I'd  have the current path through the capacitor in line with the element,
not down radially into the antenna.

I wouldn't stick a big thick piece of metal in the center of the loop and
I'd make sure the conductor was fat,  smooth, and round (like my tummy).

73, Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:47 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dave Ingram)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 14:16:55 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57i7jp$[e-mail]>
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In article <57ek0o$ffc$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Bradley Granger) wrote:
>I have modified a 2 inch speaker from a cellular phone hands free kit,
>added a ptt button in one corner that I can push with my thumb. It is
>mounted on the left handlebar.

Does this speaker give you adequate noise? My Kenwood TH-77 has little audio
output (it's OK when stationary, but not when moving).

>The 2m ht fits in a small triangular bag
>on the front centre of the handle bars. The antenna is a thin steel 1/4
>whip on a rear carrier (sometimes, at others it is just the rubber
>ducky). The mic is an electret from a car phone, the cord is fed through
>a length of brass tubing cut from the 1/8inch dia semi-rigid coax.

Are these front handlebar backs easily obtainable? They sound useful for all
sorts of things.

>The tube was soldered to a small pad of pcb about 1" square. This is the
>boom mic and it fits to the side of the helmet with a patch of velcro, it
>comes unstuck if I come unstuck. That mic cord goes down to the ptt on
>the speaker box and then to the radio. It works nicely, the mic gets very
>little wind noise, is hands free and the radio is in front where I can
>see it.

Cunning plan (do we pin a tale on it and call it a weasle?). I will have a
look at this in closely (attaching the mic to the helmet was not something I
had thought of).


Dave.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:48 1996
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From: "Chuck (Jack) Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:26:52 -0600
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, "Chuck (Jack) Hawley"
> <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> >
> >Arrrggg! I think Tom means "where did the loss resistance come from"? As
>
> <<SNIP>>
>
> >Now all you guys know this......why do you all sound like lawyers?
> >Chuck, KE9UW
>
> I didn't mean to sound like a lawyer Chuck. Mike asked where he could have
> made a mistake, and I was only pointing out that resistance was the likely
> place to look. I still have no idea where the resistance data came from,
> unless someone had a table listing the AEA loop.
>
> Without direct measurement, it is impossible to accurately know the
> resistance of a material whose surface has been altered by brushing and
> anodizing. Especially when that unknow resistance conductor is connected
> in series with a capacitor that has a long current path.
>
> If that isn't enough, the capacitor hangs down in the axis of the antenna.
> We can be sure that big hunk of current carrying metal reduces the
> radiation resistance.
>
> If I wanted an efficient small loop, I'd make the capacitor as compact as
> I could, the slightest amount of series inductance can greatly reduce ESR
> of the capacitor.
>
> I'd  have the current path through the capacitor in line with the element,
> not down radially into the antenna.
>
> I wouldn't stick a big thick piece of metal in the center of the loop and
> I'd make sure the conductor was fat,  smooth, and round (like my tummy).
>
> 73, Tom

I didn't mean you Tom. I just said "you guys" so as not to show any
favorites.
But, what the heck. You sound like the professor at the front of the
room, actually, when you said "where did the loss resistance come from?"
instead of telling us. The replies just reminded me of courtroom dialog.

I'm enjoying some of the major threads going on now.....

But, I wish someone would tell me why they think that the high current
carrying part of the antenna is the part that radiates the most. Or, put
another way, does a (half wave resonant length) inverted V radiate
better than a "verted" V? Given the same average height? If so, is it
due to ground (and other near objects) loss differences instead of the
implications of the comment "get the radiating part up in the air"?

Happy Thanksgiving,

Chuck, KE9UW



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:49 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hy-gain DX77, Cushcraft R7000
Date: 28 Nov 1996 15:40:17 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Opinions of either antenna.  I going to go with one of them, but would
like to hear your opinions.

Thanks,
Dan - N3ND



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:50 1996
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From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 28 Nov 1996 15:56:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <57kcmq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Nov 28  7:56:10 AM PST 1996

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:
>
>If I wanted an efficient small loop, I'd make the capacitor as compact
>as I could, the slightest amount of series inductance can greatly
>reduce ESR of the capacitor.
>
Tom,

I'm not sure I understand this statement.  It seems you're saying that
we *want* to add some inductance to reduce ESR (after all, reducing ESR
is the goal).

Does inductance affect ESR (which is a resistance)?  I know that it
affects the power factor of a capacitor - adding inductance effectively
reduces the capacitance, which, for a given ESR, means more power is
lost through I*R losses.

Is this what you mean, or am I missing something?

Thanks,

- Jeff, WA6AHL


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors
Subject: >>FS: 12VDC ADAPTER<<
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 15:58:39 +0000
Organization: Alpha.net -- Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 21
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Hi!

I have a AC to DC adapter just sitting around collecting dust. Make an
offer!

Input:

120V 60Hz 40W


Output:

12VDC 1.5A

Anyone interested?  Best price by e-mail gets it!

Thanks!

Andrew




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:52 1996
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From: William J Heinzinger <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Which 5-band antenna?
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:17:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <57keeo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
        [e-mail] wrote:

>On 11/18/96 9:18PM, in message <[e-mail]
>,
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>> My father-in-law just lost his Telrex tri-bander to an ice storm here in
>> Minnesota last weekend.  He's looking for a 5 band antenna to replace it.
>> Any recommendations?  I don't think he's interested in a quad.
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>> Mark,  N0YRW
>Why not give the GAP vertical a try ? You can ground mount it, and put off th
e tower
>ressurection until spring. These are pretty good antennas.
>

 If your father-in-law lost a tribander in an ice storm and ice storms are fre
quent than do NOT
consider a quad.
I had one for many years and they work great but are a bear to keep together.
Ice is hell on the wires.
Bill


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:54 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Hellman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #848
Date: 28 Nov 96 16:41:44 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: Charles Hellman <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Joe, w1gfh asked whether anyone used an end-fed antenna and a Ford spark
coil.
My first transmitter used a Ford spark coil {courtesy of the local garage}
and a Marconi antenna. When I asked a local ham for my wavelength  he
answered that he could hear my signal on 200mtrs to  600mtrs equally well!
Later I advanced to a vt Hartley oscillator with output link coupled to an
end fed zepp.
Yes,  the Ford coil and the end fed zepp were used!
Charlie, w2RP






From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:55 1996
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From: "David A. Cooley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2m and 440
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:47:39 -0500
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 16
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I have a quick and hopefully, not stupid question.
I know there are commercial 2m/440 antennas out, but since the 440m band
is exactly 3X the 2m band in freq, 1 wavelength at 2m is 3 at 440...
therefore a 5/8 wave 2m is a 1 7/8 wave (or 3-5/8 wavelengths) 440...
can a 2m antenna be used directly for 440?
If not, what mods would need to be performed to the 2m 5/8 or full wave
ant to make it work on 440?
Thanks,
Dave

--
========================================================================
David Cooley N5XMT                  Packet: N5XMT@W4RAL.#RTP.NC.USA.NOAM
Internet: [e-mail]    And Web: http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:56 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
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From: [e-mail] (Tom R. Rice)
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 18:23:38 GMT
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        Why is it that you never see lawyers at the beach?

        Because the cats keep covering them up with sand.

        73 de WB6BYH
--
"Start off every day with a smile and get it over with."  --W.C.Fields
Tom R. Rice
[e-mail]
CIS: 71160,1122


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:58 1996
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From: Bill Wyatt <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.swap
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Heliax Cable
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 18:44:19 +0000
Organization: OneNet
Lines: 69
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References: <57gb1c$[e-mail]>
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To: Douglas Berry <[e-mail]>
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32155 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43238 rec.radio.amateur.misc:119033

Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> Hello to all and thanks for reading this message
>
> I recently acquired some surplus cable TV trunk line. I suspect the cable is
 75 ohm but
> not sure. The cable is 11/16 inch in diameter with black plastic coating ove
r an
> aluminum jacket there is a white dialectric and a thick center condutor. the
 numbers
> written on the wire are T10  J. On the reel there is a Type No T10625JBFV1 a
nd below
> that the number GN7GN. I would appreciate any help at identifying this wire
what it's
> approxmatly worth and were I would be able to fine connector that would fit
it.
>
> Thanks Again
> 73's  Doug  VA3DMB

Hi Doug  VA3DMB

Bill  N5WO on this end

I'm fairly sure what you have is 75 ohm cable TV coax.  It is used to
make the main cable runs fo a CATV system and works very nicely on the
VHF and lower ham bands.  In fact the stuff you have with the plastic
jacket is the best.

We have used the stuff for years on VHF repeaters both rec. and trans.
If you want to get technical there is a mis-match 50 ohm as compaired to
75 ohm but, it generaly won't cause any great problems below UHF.  And,
I might even use it at UHF freq. if the run was fairly short, say less
than 150 ft., and the other choice was one of the RG-8's out there.  If
you were choosing between say  Belden 9913 or LMR-400 I would choose the
last.

As for the connectors there are commercial ones out there but, they are
not for the faint at heart.  The will cost you big bucks.  Likely over
25.00 per connector. We have used, with good luck, a standard PL-259
connector on this cable with pretty good luck.  Just remove enough of
the jacket to expose the center cunductor to a length that will go out
the end of the PL-259, you can solder the center conductor it should be
copper or atlest copper clad.  Now the shield is a little tricky.  You
need to remove the dielectric between the alum. shield and the center
conductor.  Clean it out for about 1/2 inch or 5/8's at most.  Now
remove the black plastic cover, about 1 inch should be fine.  Take a
hack saw and make several cuts in the alum. shield so it can be clamped
down on the end of the PL-259.  The cuts are to be made with the
parallel to the cable longwise.  Now come the tough part.  You need to
install the PL-259 (complete) on the cable so the center conductor
extends out the end of the connector and so the shield comes up on the
shoulder of the other end of the connector.  However, be carfull not to
bind up the workings of the threaded sleeve on the connector.  Take a
hose clamp, on of the screw clamp types, and cause the alum. shield to
compress down on the sholder of the connector.  Anyway it all works and
it's a cheap way to make a connector for this stuff.  This type of
connector workes beter on the 1/2 inch verson of the same cable.

Well, this is possibly much more than you wanted to know if so throw the
un-used part in the bit-bucket.....hi hi.

Check with you CATV venndor in the area, best to find the guys that take
care of the lines they should be able to help you with this cable.  As
for what it's worth, sorry to say possibly not much if it has found its
way to the surpluse market.  However, if you need to put up a VHF
repeater and need some hard line you may have a small gold mine.

Hope this helps

Bill Wyatt  N5WO
Woodward, Oklahoma   USA

BTW be nice to the cable guys they might just give you a couple of ends
for your cable.....never hurts to ask.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Phil)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.uk,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: FS.  Portable Antenna Analyzer,   7 - 510MHz SWR direct
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:11:00 GMT
Organization: Global Internet Access
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <57l9up$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 196.3.170.166
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Xref: news1.epix.net alt.radio.uk:9397 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32158 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43247 rec.radio.amateur.misc:119041

I have a portable Antenna Analyzer for sale.
It is a portable unit run from NiCad batteries with charger. It uses a LCD 4
digit frequency counter, an analogue SWR / %reflected power scales read direct
.
No radio Tansmitter needed. It sees exactly what the radio sees.
Only R2200-00. Still under guarantee. Used only once.
Ideal for the antenna experimenter.

Call Rob @ [phone]              [phone]
or Email [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:31:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Richard E. Darwicki)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Acura Legend HF mobile
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:12:31 GMT
Organization: Delta Internet Services, Anaheim, CA
Lines: 3
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Does anyone know an easy way to mount an HF antenna on a 1988 Acura
Legend?   Would like a no holes bumper type mount.
TNX Rick, N6PE


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Selwyn-Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need 'Copper Cactus' info.
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 20:33:43 GMT
Organization: Landscape Services
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: chrisss.demon.co.uk
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

 John Ferguson <[e-mail]> wrote:

>     Some period of time ago there was an interesting posting of the
>"Copper Cactus Antenna".  I can't find my copy. Could someone repost it or
>direct me to the author. Thanks.
>
>BCNU, 73.
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> JFERG @ OUTLAND.DTCC.EDU           /      Bend it to fit.....
> John S. Ferguson K3PFW             /      Paint it to match.
> Delaware Tech. & Comm. College-Owens Campus, Georgetown DE 19947 USA
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *>
Full details of this antenna and assorted related bits can be found at

http://www.inlink.com/~raiar/amateur.html


Chris

Chris Selwyn-Smith   Landscape Services
       [e-mail]
    G1RQZ                Hampton Court


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!demos!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!news.pacbell.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (R. A. Green)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Indoor Antenna Design
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:49:45 GMT
Organization: .
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-206-170-24-59.sntc01.pacbell.net
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On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:58:01 -0700, "robert J. Mac Culloch"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>An indoor loop is a good indoor antenna,just string it around the corner
>of the rooms of the int ire house or apartment,I think you are going to
>have trouble with the 80m and the 160m but you can probably get 40m and
>20 m and 15m and 10m with no problem,but the way these fringies squawk
>about there TV recipition,it is not worth the hassle in southern
>California,somebody may pull a gun,that is how crazy they are,I just
>operate a handitalkie,that should not bug them too much WB6mcf
>[e-mail]

And all in one sentence....


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop
From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: inverted V
Date: 29 Nov 1996 02:17:56 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <57lh4k$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Bill, k5pcw said of an inverted V -
About performance, great for field day/sweepstakes, and not so bad for dx
if you adjust the height of the feedpoint to get the best angle of
radiation.   Put the thing on a pulley system so you don't have to lower
the support.  Try different heights to see what works best since true
ground level and effective ground level may be different

Bill, k5pcw


Bill,
        Please define "true ground level" and "effective ground level"
Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:03 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad feed
Date: 29 Nov 1996 03:34:52 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Anyone know of any problems with using gamma match for feeding quad per
W6SAI's quad book?

Also, any reason (other than mechanical) not to feed quad on top versus
the more traditional bottom?

73,
Henry Pollock - WB4HFL
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.telusplanet.net!news
From: "Karl B. Staddon" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Force 12 ?
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:05:26 -0700
Organization: Home
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: clgrpx03-port-23.agt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT  (Win16; I)
To: Rick Perry <[e-mail]>

Rick Perry wrote:
>
> Seeing some adds again for the Force 12 antenna systems.  I would be
> interested in the C-4XL (2 el. on 40 + 20 and up).  Any comments on the
> construction, performance, etc.  I live in ice and snow country not alot
> of wind.
>
> 73's  Rick W7AV



I've had a Force 12 DXer Plus since about 1993.  Love the antenna.  It has ten
 elements,
no traps, 2 feed points and was upgraded to 100 mph on the elements and 120 mp
h on the
boom.

I've had lots of snow and ice combined with high winds on the antenna without
any
problems.

The antennas was custom designed from the DXer because I had excess turning ra
dius so we
added one more element and extended the boom to 33 feet.  It operates on 20/17
/15
metres.  My custom antenna was subsequently added to the lineup of antennas Fo
rce 12
sells.

If you are concerned about wind and ice I'd suggest getting an upgrade to the
wind
ratings mentioned above.

Hope this is of use.

Cheers, de Karl B. Staddon  VE6KBS in Calgary, Alberta


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!206.229.87.25!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 12:58:00 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57id4c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <57id4c$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CHARLES J.
MICHAELS) writes:

>       However, for a ground strip you mioght be more concerned
>with reactance than resistance.
>
>Charlie, W7XC

Hi Charlie,

Gut feeling tells me the ractance would be higher too, wouldn't it? I need
to look at that.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:07 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!206.246.124.37!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Bob Ant)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: BUSINESSEEK.COM
Date: 29 Nov 96 13:35:03 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


Hi.
Excuse me for this unsolicited e-mail. I felt this was the
best way to inform you of our new service.

Here at PERSONALSEEK, www.personalseek.com, we've decided to build ì
another free international search engine,but this one is only for ì
commercial organizations. It is called BUSINESSEEK and it's absolutely ì
free. Try it for yourself at http://www.businesseek.com/

The goal of Businesseek is to allow the user to find a company, brand or ì
product quickly and easily. We will provide your company with a password ì
so you can update your data instantly and at any time that is convenient ì
for you.

We suggest you first use your native language .You can then submit the ì
same information in other languages depending on the markets that you ì
would like to serve. There are no limits regarding the number of ì
submissions. The information intake form will be available in english ì
spanish,italian, french and german.

We also have a COMPANY NEWS OF BUSINESSEEK section, where you will be ì
able to put up to 1000 text characters text giving news about your ì
company.You can describe new products or brands, new researches, etc., ì
using the password we'll give you after you add your data.

To add your data, go to add in
http://www.businesseek.com/
After you have your password, you can acces our news service at ì
http://www.businesseek.com/business/news


Yours sincerely.

Bob Ant
Webmaster of BusinesSeek
Webmaster of PersonalSeek

--
"Never has something so little gone so fast..."





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dan Correia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 14:43:41 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <57n7aa$[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip49.san-francisco4.ca.interramp.com
X-Server-Date: 29 Nov 1996 17:42:34 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32174 rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:775 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20403 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43284 rec.radio.amateur.misc:119103 rec.radio.amateur.space:8952

rderr <[e-mail]> wrote:

>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> In article <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]@smtp-news
2.ibm.net writes:
>> >In <[e-mail]>, Joe Giraudo <[e-mail]> writes:
>> >>R. A. Green wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 16 Nov 1996 07:03:33 GMT, [e-mail] (Rob Turner)
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>> >>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>> >>> >adam turner
>> >>> >[e-mail]
>> >>> >
>> >>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>> >>>
>> >>> --ronPosted in Rec.Amateur.Boatanchors?
>> >>
>> >>Tube type hand held?
>> >
>> >  Sure, those 90 volt B batterys are getting a little long in the tooth :-
(=)
>> >
>> >                                                                JimI imagi
ne that the A battery will also weigh a few pounds, perhaps the
>whole thing could be mounted on a kid's toy wagon as a mobile unit.


I'll take two!



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: "Mark Bryant" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Beam Direction Program
Date: 29 Nov 1996 14:57:09 GMT
Organization: SOHObusiness Services
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <01bbde05$d95bdea0$a3d879a8@soho>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-216-163.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I am looking for an on line program that allows me to enter lat/long for my
location and target location.  I am trying to determine if it is true that
Europe is directly beyond my service transformer on the utility pole.

Thanks for the help

Mark

38/-84.5


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:10 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!academ!egsner!news.onramp.net!onramp
From: [e-mail] (Brandon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What kind of radio should I get
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:06:21 GMT
Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP;  Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <57mu8o$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Brandon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: r32p3.onramp.net

for 440mhz?  Is the Kenwood a good radio?  Any comments will
be appreciated.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!altitude!usenet
From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: DDRR & antenna pictures - DX
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:28:26 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamicppp-3.hip.cam.org
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32173 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1433 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21532

They are here at last!

Now you can see what real DDRRs looks like.

You can also read about VE2DLJ tests and QSOs using
these DDRRs in the 75m DX Windows.

If you work DX on the low bands you certainly know the big guns
from VE2. Wonder what they use ? Check the pictures and you will
understand.

Report of the comparative tests between all sorts of Low Band
antennas (beam, rot. dipole, 4 square, wire beam, DDRRs, K5RP, etc)

Also in these pages:

Lots of selected links for hamradio, electronics, manufacturers,
components, propagation, searching for specs, etc...

Download NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows (evaluation)

       URL : http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri

If you don't find something, or need more info, send me an
email and I will be glad to help you.

-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!205.252.116.190!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 29 Nov 1996 16:15:11 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>If I wanted an efficient small loop, I'd make the capacitor as compact as
>I could, the slightest amount of series inductance can greatly reduce ESR
>of the capacitor.
>
>

Woops I meant increase!!

Series inductance causes an increase in effective capacitance, and that
means you need less parallel plate area for the same Xc. That means
increased current density, and that increases I^2R losses. It also may
increase the ratio of reactance to resistance and increase system Q,
causing more VAR losses while the bandwidth gets narrower. You may "think"
the system has lower loss because it has more selectivity, when it really
has higher loss.

Unnecessary series inductance is a bad thing.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help AEA Loop...
Date: 29 Nov 1996 16:15:12 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, "Chuck (Jack) Hawley"
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>But, I wish someone would tell me why they think that the high current
>carrying part of the antenna is the part that radiates the most. Or, put
>another way, does a (half wave resonant length) inverted V radiate
>better than a "verted" V? Given the same average height? If so, is it
>due to ground (and other near objects) loss differences instead of the
>implications of the comment "get the radiating part up in the air"?
>
>Happy Thanksgiving,
>
>Chuck, KE9UW
>
>

Radiation is caused by the acceleration of charges. The number of charges
moved (wiggled or accelerated) at one point is directly indicated by
current at that point.
Radiation is the vector sum of the effects of charge acceleration.

So the potential difference only makes the charges move, and in itself
does not cause radiation.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!132.175.109.6!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!SantaFe!usenet
From: "David B. Holtkamp" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Opinions on Raibeam antennas?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 16:42:16 GMT
Organization: The Santa Fe Institute
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <01bbde11$997df640$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial139.roadrunner.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I'm considering a new purchase of a new beam to replace my old tried and
true LPA and I've talked to the fellow at Raibeam Antennas in Glendale AZ
(WA7RAI). He strikes me as a very bright creative fellow who may have
designed some critically coupled antennas that are reported to perform
*very* well.

Does anyone out there have any experience with the Raibeam antenna? Or
worked anyone who is using it?

Thanks in advance!

  david (K5KH)

email: [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:16 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!204.177.71.9!viper.shadow.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (cRiTTa66)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 300 ohm feeder for vhf/uhf runs ???
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:43:29 GMT
Organization: iNdependent
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <329f208d.1426238@news>
References: <57k3od$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-mia-28.shadow.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

RG58, you must be nuts, for vhf i would use at lease a rg-8 or belden
9913 or lmr-400!
On Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:24:54 GMT, [e-mail] (Jonathan Bowes) wrote:

>Dear all readers !
>
>I have a small dilemma concerning the installation of my airband
>(cil/mil) antenna on top of our flats. Unfortunately I leave on the
>ground floor and the coax run to the top will be approx 28m. I am
>quite anxious about the loss of signal after spending the extra money
>on a long coax run. I can it coming that having battled with it all
>the gain from the antenna will the same as having it just outside the
>window. VIEWS on that point would be great, please.
>
>THEN - today I read an article about somebody using 300 ohm ribbon
>feeder which has a much lower loss over long runs than does RG58.
>I have here a number of small 300 - 75 ohm baluns from the TV junk
>shop so matching the cables is not a problem. Would it be worth trying
>it with the 300 ohm cable or just sticking with the RG58 ?????
>
>Thanks for you attention and advice.
>
>
>JB
>
>
>



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!205.231.176.6!news.nts-online.net!news
From: James Lee Tabor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Beam Direction Program
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:12:16 -0600
Organization: Kangaroo Tabor Software
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbde05$d95bdea0$a3d879a8@soho>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp16.wtrt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
To: Mark Bryant <[e-mail]>

Mark Bryant wrote:
>
> I am looking for an on line program that allows me to enter lat/long for my
> location and target location.  I am trying to determine if it is true that
> Europe is directly beyond my service transformer on the utility pole.
> 38/-84.5

from 38N, 84.5W

ZB2 64.98 Gibralter
EA9 64.73 Melilla
EA  59.9  Spain
GU  49.85 Guernsey
GJ  49.93 Jersey
EI  46.43 Rep. Ireland
GD  44.86 Isle of Mann
GM  43.05 Scotland
GW  47.76 Wales
G   46.92 England

I believe these to be reasonable accurate from 38/-84.5.

Hope this helps.
73,
Jim
--
Communications Analysis Prediction Wizard
http://www.wtrt.net/~ku5s/
CAPMan HF Propagation Prediction & System Analysis Software
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KU5S


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:18 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (mike del pozzo)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tower
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 18:30:50 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <57mviq$[e-mail]>
References: <56n6mh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-62-141.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 29 Nov 1996 15:30:34 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (David Brandt) wrote:

>I have a 45 foot antenna tower to dismantle; but do not know how to
>approach the problem.  The tower is free-standing and is too close to
>other things: buildings, power lines, etc. to lay the tower down.
>Does anyone have any suggestions?
A gin pole , and a good warm day would do the job.
but I would strongly suggest Temporary Guy Wires
made of heavy rope as so the tower will not move while
you're  working on it . Not to mention there's no telling
what kind of shape it's in. GUY IT FIRST...
Gud Luck
de KR4TG , Mike





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:19 1996
From: [e-mail] (Don Phelps)
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Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 300 ohm feeder for vhf/uh
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 18:41:16 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Infoway BBS [phone] 28,800 8-N-1
Lines: 43

 Bo> Subject: 300 ohm feeder for vhf/uhf runs ???

Jonathan,

I'm not clear on what your objectives are.
If you are just receiving, and not transmitting,
wouldn't it be easy to place a preamplifier at the
antenna powered through the coax?
A lot of commercial wideband TV preamps are built to
accept either 300 ohm or 75 ohm coax, and would
probably work fine with 50 ohm coax.
You just want to get the largest diameter, best quality coax
your budget allows.  Since 75 ohm RG6 or RG59 style TV coax
is usually lower loss and cheaper than RG58, the latter
is almost never along the cost effective frontier for any
budget level...unless you need the 50 ohm impedance, small size,
flexibilty, etc. for a reason.

If you want the cheapest, lowest loss solution, consider
open wire ladder line.

Hope that helps.
Don, N6MCE


 Bo> I have a small dilemma concerning the installation of my airband
 Bo> (cil/mil) antenna on top of our flats. Unfortunately I leave on the
 Bo> ground floor and the coax run to the top will be approx 28m. I am
 Bo> quite anxious about the loss of signal after spending the extra money
 Bo> on a long coax run. I can it coming that having battled with it all
 Bo> the gain from the antenna will the same as having it just outside the
 Bo> window. VIEWS on that point would be great, please.

 Bo> THEN - today I read an article about somebody using 300 ohm ribbon
 Bo> feeder which has a much lower loss over long runs than does RG58.
 Bo> I have here a number of small 300 - 75 ohm baluns from the TV junk
 Bo> shop so matching the cables is not a problem. Would it be worth trying
 Bo> it with the 300 ohm cable or just sticking with the RG58 ?????



... [e-mail]  1:125/104 POBox 9739 San Rafael,CA 94912
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:20 1996
From: [e-mail] (Don Phelps)
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!infoway!don.phelps
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2m and 440
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 18:41:16 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Infoway BBS [phone] 28,800 8-N-1
Lines: 23

 Dave,

 I hear that a 1/4 wave ground plane, or 1/2 wave dipole
 2 m antenna works fine on 440.

 But you ask if a 5/8 wave antenna's matching circuit will
 match on both 146 and 440 MHz, which is a much more
 complex and unlikely possibility.

 But if you feed it with 100 feet of RG-58, it should show
 a low SWR on both bands. :-) Hi.

 Co> I have a quick and hopefully, not stupid question.
 Co> I know there are commercial 2m/440 antennas out, but since the 440m
 Co> band is exactly 3X the 2m band in freq, 1 wavelength at 2m is 3 at
 Co> 440... therefore a 5/8 wave 2m is a 1 7/8 wave (or 3-5/8 wavelengths)
 Co> 440... can a 2m antenna be used directly for 440?
 Co> If not, what mods would need to be performed to the 2m 5/8 or full
 Co> wave ant to make it work on 440?


... [e-mail]  1:125/104 POBox 9739 San Rafael,CA 94912
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Brian Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF JPOLE ANT?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:34:10 GMT
Organization: UCI Medical Center
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <57ndri$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbdbd9$43cfd220$09c9a1cd@pridgent>
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In article <01bbdbd9$43cfd220$09c9a1cd@pridgent>, [e-mail] says...

>Looking for plans for an HF JPOLE antenna. All info will be appreciated.
>Please respond to my Email address.
>73, KC4YTF
>Email: [e-mail]

Usually size is the limiting factor here.
20 meter JPOLE ends up being about 50 feet long.  They are usually mounted
upright and so can be mechanically difficult to erect.  A half wave antenna
is much shorter.

Brian



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!news
From: Peter and Colleen McGreevy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Acura Legend HF mobile
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 11:36:32 -0800
Organization: IDT
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Richard E. Darwicki wrote:
>
> Does anyone know an easy way to mount an HF antenna on a 1988 Acura
> Legend?   Would like a no holes bumper type mount.
> TNX Rick, N6PE



Richard...

You can try a "recessed" class 1 trailer hitch.  They mount under the
bumper, and the trailer hitch itself comes off, so when you do not want
the hitch to be seen you just remove it.  Just take the ball off the
metal tab and screw in the HF antenna of your choice.

Good Luck -- Pete -- KA2YDY


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:24 1996
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From: [e-mail] (R. A. Green)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Acura Legend HF mobile
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 19:57:49 GMT
Organization: .
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 29 Nov 1996 11:36:32 -0800, Peter and Colleen McGreevy
<[e-mail]> wrote:


>
>Richard...
>
>You can try a "recessed" class 1 trailer hitch.  They mount under the
>bumper, and the trailer hitch itself comes off, so when you do not want
>the hitch to be seen you just remove it.  Just take the ball off the
>metal tab and screw in the HF antenna of your choice.
>
>Good Luck -- Pete -- KA2YDY

DUHHHH!!! I've been wanting to mount another antenna on my Jeep CJ,
and you have solved my problem!! Sometimes the outrageously,
incredibly obvious just goes right by me!! I already have it
installed, and I never use a trailer (it was on it when I bought
it...), so what the hey!! Thanks--

--ron       d:-{0




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:25 1996
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From: "Tucker Sizemore (KC8EMX)" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Does Anyone Have a good 2m J-pole plan?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:04:06 GMT
Organization: MountainNet, Inc. Morgantown WV 800.444.1458
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <01bbde06$376422a0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip27-1.mountain.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I was looking for a j-pole antenna plan so I could try to get into some of
the more distant repeaters

Please Reply if you find any plans.

TUCKER SIZEMORE
KC8EMX


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:25 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Is there a 6m antenna good for reducing TVI?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:38:19 GMT
Organization: Oberlin College, Oberlin, Ohio
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <57nhjr$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.cc.oberlin.edu

I was transmitting on 6m SSB last night using the usual 8 watts
out from a transverter to an inverted vee up around 35 feet when
a neighbor knocked on the door stating his TV was being "wiped out."
Since my transmissions don't affect our own TV, which is on cable,
I believe his TV is hooked up to rabbit ears and he's listening to
broadcast TV, probably channel 3.  I'm planning to install a 6m
halo soon, with a directional antenna of some sort to follow next
year.  Would the halo, and a quad or yagi, make the TVI worse, or
better?  What antenna would cause the least TVI?  Thanks for your
help.  --Bill KB8USZ  [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:26 1996
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From: "A Redshirt" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member (another twist...)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:14:17 GMT
Organization: "Credo Quia Absudum" -- E Clampus Vitus
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <01bbde38$321b37c0$[e-mail]>
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Lifted from the local paper without permission, and forwarded
without comment...

"The parents of 4-year-old Sarah Engstrand filed a US $1.2
million
lawsuit in New York City against the girls' grandparents because
the elder couple's Akita dog, Becky Bear, bit and deeply scarred

Sarah's nose and cheek during the girl's birthday party in 1994.
The grandparents are heartsick at being sued by their own son,
who not surprisingly is a lawyer, as is his wife."

A Redshirt in Rocklin

"HILLARY SHOT VINCE!!" - A Local Bumper Sticker
--





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Pete Lamasney)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ford coil
Date: 30 Nov 96 00:06:18 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

At 16:41 PM 11/28/96 PST, Charles Hellman wrote:
>
>[...snip...] When I asked a local ham for my wavelength  he
>answered that he could hear my signal on 200mtrs to  600mtrs equally well!

Hey, Charles, they're *STILL* saying that!! (yuk, yuk, yuk)

Pete
WB6AZF
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:29 1996
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From: Joe Tyburczy <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Balanced Feeders!
Date: 30 Nov 1996 00:35:11 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <57nvfv$[e-mail]>
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Interested in general feedback/comments/musings/gripes in any of the
following categories:

1) Has anybody ever made their own open-wire feeder? I never did, but am
thoroughly intrigued with the possibilities. Other than providing a
playground ladder for bluejays and a dandy snow collection device, I've
heard that these affairs make one heck of a transmission line.

2) I've seen several references in old handbooks and ham publications
(1950's-60's) to "TV-type open wire line". Was there some kind of "open
wire" line manufactured for TV receivers during the days of Uncle Milty?

3) Was there an amateur "transmitting" version of 300-ohm twinlead made
a while back, but discontinued?

4) MFJ tuners: You either love 'em or hate 'em. Are they junk --or gems?
Perhaps "rolling your own" is best, but I hear that the "Johnson
Matchbox" was/is still the Cadillac of tuners. What's the scoop?

-jt- WB1GFH/6




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rossi Giuseppe)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HV diode
Date: 30 Nov 96 00:50:00 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


Hello to every Ham

I've just buy at a fair some hv diodes
unluckily I'm not able to found them data Sheets
Could come one help me?

The diode are : FAGOR HV 03-10

Please email me directly since i have some problem with news-group
 Thank you very much
G. Rossi
IW1CLX
E-mail [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Does Anyone Have a good 2m J-pole plan?
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 01:15:31 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <57o1v7$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbde06$376422a0$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Tucker Sizemore (KC8EMX)" <[e-mail]> shared these
priceless pearls of wisdom:

->I was looking for a j-pole antenna plan

***CAUTION --- BLATANT COMMERCIAL HUCKSTERISM FOLLOWS***

Take a look at www.rst-engr.com in the Base Station Antenna section.

Jim

Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company -- and I'm damned proud to do so.
Grass Valley CA 95945   | Airport: O17 (Grass Valley Intentional Airpatch)
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---C-182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Comm'l/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:31 1996
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From: Madjid <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: am broadcast loop antennas
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 20:27:04 -0500
Organization: ORION Microsystems
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]

Paul Giusti [VK3FPG] wrote:
>
> I have been looking with no success for some plans or constructional
> information for a broadcast band (500-1700khz) loop antenna and am
> hoping someone out there may be in a position to e- mail me some plans
> or direct me to a web resource that has this information available.

Check the Nordic Page they have a lot of stuff on AM antennas

     http://sds.se/org/swl/

There is also Radio Netherland

     http://www.rnw.nl/en/pub/

-------------------
Madjid, VE2GMI - Home Page: http://www.CAM.ORG/~mboukri
NEC4WIN Antenna simulation for Windows


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jan Anker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 300 ohm feeder for vhf/uhf runs ???
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 20:46:33
Organization: EUnet Belgium, Leuven, Belgium
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57k3od$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup008.hasselt.eunet.be
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

In article <57k3od$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jonathan Bowes) writes:

>Dear all readers !

>I have a small dilemma concerning the installation of my airband
>(cil/mil) antenna on top of our flats. Unfortunately I leave on the
>ground floor and the coax run to the top will be approx 28m. I am
>quite anxious about the loss of signal after spending the extra money
>on a long coax run. I can it coming that having battled with it all
>the gain from the antenna will the same as having it just outside the
>window. VIEWS on that point would be great, please.

>THEN - today I read an article about somebody using 300 ohm ribbon
>feeder which has a much lower loss over long runs than does RG58.
>I have here a number of small 300 - 75 ohm baluns from the TV junk
>shop so matching the cables is not a problem. Would it be worth trying
>it with the 300 ohm cable or just sticking with the RG58 ?????

If you are able to mount the cable at least 4 inches from the wall or
cables etc do it. If not: use coax. And for airband (low) and for receiving
only this baluns will do. If ribbon (the tv type) gets wet losses can be high.
regards
[e-mail] (on4caf ex pa0lbn)


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Neighbors)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Force 12 Antenna
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 02:47:09 GMT
Organization: GreK Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: customs542.ipass.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Anyone with performance info on a Force 12 antenna model C4?
How does it play on 40 mtr, durability, gain, front to back etc?
73
W4HHN


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Barry Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,
Subject: Re: looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 03:22:32 GMT
Organization: GoodNet
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57o9g2$[e-mail]>
References: <56jp05$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5738de$17ec$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <57n7aa$[e-mail]>
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>>> >>> >looking to get a Hand held Ham Radio.
>>> >>> >If there is anyone selling or giveing one away please email me.
>>> >>> >adam turner
>>> >>> >[e-mail]
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> Hell, if there's anyone giving one away, email me too!
>

I'll be happy to give one away. I have a Wilson 1405. All you have to do is
come over and get it.
73
Barry

Barry Rose
2302 W. Wagoner Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023
[phone]  FAX [phone]
Store Fixtures - Displays - Supplies - Labels - Bags - Boxes - Business Forms
- Foil Stamped Business Cards - Showcases - Mannequins - Racks
http://www.goodnet.com/indirect/www/barry


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:36 1996
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From: Todd Bortke <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: building your own antenna
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:59:50 -0600
Organization: -
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U)

Where can I get information on building my own CB antenna


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Copper Cactus antenna
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 04:03:46 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <57obtf$n20$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm00309.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Tom Hammond) wrote:

>Within the past several days (of Nov 27th), someone pastes an inquiry
>about anyone having information on the "Copper Cactus", published in
>the Feb. '92 issue of "73 Magazine".

>While I no longer have the original post,and thus don't know who the
>inquirer was, I _do_ have copies of the article.

>If you read this and wish to obtain a copy of the article, drop me
>e-mail and I'll arrange to get a copy to you.

>73 - Tom Hammond   [e-mail]
I saw that, somebody copied by antenna!

FWIW:  The original copper cactus antenna was a tri-band 6 inch
diameter (at the base) J-Pole constructed of copper, thorned, then
acid washed to turn the copper to a green patina.  The unit was
installed in a 14 inch clay flowerpot.  The coax was hidden inside a
green garden hose that attached to a dummy faucet that was secured to
a wall where the coax entered the ham-shack.

A single or multi-band Copper Cactus using normal water tube was
re-designed along with a stacked-J and mirror-image-J.

The plans for each, K-factoring charts for designers and dimensions
for all VHF/UHF frequencies can be found at
HTTP://www.inlink.com/~raiar

TTUL - 73+ de Gary - KG0ZP




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:38 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.fibr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.dra.com!news.inlink.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Does Anyone Have a good 2m J-pole plan?
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 04:06:40 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57oc2t$n20$[e-mail]>
References: <01bbde06$376422a0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm00309.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Tucker Sizemore (KC8EMX)" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I was looking for a j-pole antenna plan so I could try to get into some of
>the more distant repeaters

>Please Reply if you find any plans.

>TUCKER SIZEMORE
>KC8EMX
Hi Tucker

Check out HTTP://www.inlink.com/~raiar for the plans and dimensions
The mirror-Image-J has the highest gain, equivalent to about 3
J-Poles.

TTUL
Gary





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:39 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!news.glink.net.hk!uunet!in3.uu.net!207.17.188.30!info.htcomp.net!NewsWatcher!user
From: [e-mail] (W T Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: inverted V
Date: 30 Nov 1996 04:18:45 GMT
Organization: Another Netscape News Server User
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <wtshaw-2911962324540001@207.17.188.131>
References: <57lh4k$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.17.188.131

In article <57lh4k$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CHARLES J.
MICHAELS) wrote:

> Bill, k5pcw said of an inverted V -
> About performance, great for field day/sweepstakes, and not so bad for dx
> if you adjust the height of the feedpoint to get the best angle of
> radiation.   Put the thing on a pulley system so you don't have to lower
> the support.  Try different heights to see what works best since true
> ground level and effective ground level may be different

> Bill,
>         Please define "true ground level" and "effective ground level"
> Charlie, W7XC
> --

True ground level is something you can stand on, dirt usually.  Now, if
it's wet dirt, it may also represent effective ground level.  As it drys
out, it moves down.  It's not a clear cut thing however, just a
generalization.  Depending on the conditions, and I base this on
experience with broacast transmitter sites where patterns are routinely
monitored and analyzed, the radiation pattern for the antennas is
constantly changing because of this fact.

Did you ever wonder why lots of AM sites were put in the worst boggy
ground?  It's not just because these places are usually in the low rent
district, but because of the good grounding effect.

After a dry spell, effective ground level will be somewhere below ground.
Putting in a ground plane or using radials is the common method to make
sure effective ground level is near the surface, or even raise it above
ground somewhat.

Bill
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
 Orpnhfr gur yrnfg ovg bs rapelcgvba frrzf
 zlfgvslvat gb zbfg, zbfg pbzcyrk sbezf frrz
   gbgnyyl haarprffnel gb gur fnzr sbyxf.
          http://www.htcomp.net/wts/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:39 1996
From: [e-mail] (Dr. Gar Won Ko)
Subject: FS: TORNADO DETECTOR YAGI
Date: 29 Nov 96 21:02:39 -0800
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 4

Jerrold yagi, 55.25 MHz, was utilized in detecting the near-field
signal of tornados in Wichita, Kansas in conjunction with spectrum
analysis. $100, you pick up.
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:41 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ns3.n-link.com!news
From: "N5XJD, Marlin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AV-5 Measurements
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 23:04:05 -0600
Organization: Branding Iron 2,  10-10 Int.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.135.244.53
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U)

I have a Cushcraft AV-5 Verticle but no manual.  If someone could help
me with the measurements I could use the antenna.

-73- Marlin
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:42 1996
From: [e-mail] (Dr. Gar Won Ko)
Subject: FS: Cushcraft A4-S Beam w/A744
Date: 29 Nov 96 21:05:37 -0800
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 3

Cushcraft Model A4-S Tri-Band Beam with 40 Meter add-on kit. $300 and
you take down from tower. Wichita, Kansas
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:43 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!iag.net!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.ici.net!news
From: Bill Hassan <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Force 12 ?
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:18:29 -0800
Organization: iCi Customer
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pmm3ip11
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)

Rick Perry wrote:
>
> Seeing some adds again for the Force 12 antenna systems.  I would be
> interested in the C-4XL (2 el. on 40 + 20 and up).  Any comments on the
> construction, performance, etc.  I live in ice and snow country not alot
> of wind.
>
> 73's  Rick W7AVRich I put up a F-12 C4SXL and the 2 ele F-12 30 meter yagi.
I am impressed with the construction, and the performance of them
both. It is a light (49 lbs) antenna, easy to assemble... A lot of the
guys around here in the NewEngland area use the F-12 yagis, and didn't
have a problem last winter with the snow, wind and ice.
GL Bill K1SM


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:44 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ultra.sonic.net!d62.pm8.sonic.net!user
From: [e-mail] (David S. Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Beam Direction Program
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 22:18:56 -0800
Organization: none
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bbde05$d95bdea0$a3d879a8@soho>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d62.pm8.sonic.net

In article <01bbde05$d95bdea0$a3d879a8@soho>, "Mark Bryant"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> I am looking for an on line program that allows me to enter lat/long for my
> location and target location.  I am trying to determine if it is true that
> Europe is directly beyond my service transformer on the utility pole.
>
> Thanks for the help
>
> Mark
>
> 38/-84.5

Using the Map control panel, included with the system software of every
Macintosh! I get the following (although decimal degrees are not
included:)
From 38N 85.5W

Helsinki== 32 degrees
Warsaw  == 40 degrees
London  == 47 degrees
Rome    == 52 degrees
Madrid  == 59 degrees

73 - David, KC6SSF

David S. Jackson, KC6SSF
Santa Rosa,CA
(on the old Mac SE!)


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:46 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!206.63.63.70!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!news.bmi.net!news
From: "Rich Hebel" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How  Well Does R7 Work on 40M?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 06:48:16 GMT
Organization: Key Technology, Inc.
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <01bbde8a$3eab7de0$c7bf39cc@rhebel>
References: <[e-mail]> <47eohb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: annex-199.bmi.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

I installed an R7 last summer.  I can comment on comparisons with an
Alpha-Delta DXCC multiband trap dipole I had up at the same time. The DXCC
was up as flat-top about 25' between, and partly obscured by,  two trees.
The R7 was installed on my roof, at about 27' at its base.  The DXCC was
put up as a "stopgap" - never intended to be a DX install.

In A/B comparisons, both antennas performed about the same on 40m, which
was generally fairly good.  In my installation however, the DXCC was
noticeably quieter, even with signals off the ends of the dipole.  I
installed the R7 hoping that, with clearance from the trees and height, and
a good earth ground, I would benefit from the lower angle and thus enjoy
better DX.  So far, I have been disappointed in that regard.

Possible confounding factors:  1) dense residential area, and 2) mountains
to south and east.  And, yes, possibly the mounting height (a case could be
made that performance would be better closer to the ground (all else being
equal).

Same results with both my rigs:  Swan Astro 103BX and an Alinco DX70T.
Both antennas tuned up well with less than 1.15 SWR.

Anyhow, for what it's worth. Good luck.

de AA7P   Rich

[e-mail] wrote in article <47eohb$[e-mail]>...
> In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jerry Gardner)
writes:
> >
> >I have a Cushcraft R5 vertical and I'm thinking of upgrading to an R7.



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:47 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Herbie)
Newsgroups: sci.chem.organomet,sci.engr.chem,sci.chem,comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc,comp.infosystems.gopher,131,rec.sport.football.australian,alt.asian-movies,rec.skiing.snowboard,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.radio.shortwave,aus.invest,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,[e-mail],rec.autos.vw,[e-mail],alt.2600,k12.lang.deutsch-eng,k12.lang.francais,aus.ads.forsale,aus.ads.forsale.computers
Subject: Re: BAN/INTERNET
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 16:31:28 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: @dy06.newton.dialix.com.au
Xref: news1.epix.net sci.chem.organomet:2760 sci.engr.chem:19733 sci.chem:82381 comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc:17233 comp.infosystems.gopher:18233 rec.sport.football.australian:31495 alt.asian-movies:47061 rec.skiing.snowboard:35122 rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:48657 rec.radio.shortwave:89438 aus.invest:4169 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21575 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32210 rec.radio.amateur.misc:119204 alt.2600:225578 k12.lang.deutsch-eng:11685 k12.lang.francais:15164 aus.ads.forsale:19921 aus.ads.forsale.computers:30554

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

>-
>--
>
>ILLEGAL INTERNET CENSORSHIP/BAN: AN AUSTRALIAN FIRST (SEE BELOW).
>SMUGGLING BOOK BACK ON MARKET - CALL FOR ROYAL COMMISSION.
>
Yawn!
>
>3
>MEDIA RELEASE

"The only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity"- Oscar Wilde
"His Majesty is a stream of bat's piss"- Oscar Wilde meets Monty Python
"What I meant is that His Majesty is a golden shaft of light when darkness
is all around."- Oscar Wilde meets Monty Python recovering from his faux
pas.

Herbie

--
"They put a hotwire to my head 'cause of the things I did and said and made th
ese feelings go away, model citizen in every way." - J Lydon


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:48 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!news.pacbell.net!default
From: [e-mail] (Steve Childress)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member (another twist...)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 08:44:12 GMT
Organization: Self
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57os2q$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <01bbde38$321b37c0$[e-mail]>
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In article <01bbde38$321b37c0$[e-mail]>, "A Redshirt" <occ
[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Lifted from the local paper without permission, and forwarded
>without comment...
>
>"The parents of 4-year-old Sarah Engstrand filed a US $1.2
>million
>lawsuit in New York City against the girls' grandparents because
>the elder couple's Akita dog, Becky Bear, bit and deeply scarred
>
>Sarah's nose and cheek during the girl's birthday party in 1994.
>The grandparents are heartsick at being sued by their own son,
>who not surprisingly is a lawyer, as is his wife."

I wonder if the family isn't in cahoots on this - Grandparents file
bankruptcy, Homeowner's insurance pays,  Everyone profits.
Get a few crapola TV show appearances & a book.
Grandparents now live high on the hog in retirement.
Children inherit estate.

So they say, well, let's at least get something positive out of
the bad situation, eh?

Probably how a lawyer's mind works.

[e-mail]

------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]          If Computers Are The Answer...
  WB6CSZ                         What Was The Question?



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:50 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!138.95.18.2!wilbur.sequent.com!newsfeed.orst.edu!news.peak.org!billn
From: [e-mail] (Bill Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 09:03:04 GMT
Organization: Public Electronic Access to Knowledge,Corvallis,US
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <57ot88$[e-mail]>
References: <57id4c$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peak.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

[e-mail] wrote:

: >     However, for a ground strip you mioght be more concerned
: >with reactance than resistance.
: >
: >Charlie, W7XC

: Hi Charlie,

: Gut feeling tells me the ractance would be higher too, wouldn't it? I need
: to look at that.

If I remember correctly, the inductive reactance is higher for a braided
strip than it is for a flat sheet of the same width.

Is that why solid shielding is used on the very low loss coax versions?

Bill


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:51 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!165.87.194.248!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member (another twist...)
Date: 30 Nov 1996 09:05:32 GMT
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <57otcs$tm0$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <01bbde38$321b37c0$[e-mail]>
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In <01bbde38$321b37c0$[e-mail]>, "A Redshirt" <occupant@ps
yber.com> writes:
>
>Lifted from the local paper without permission, and forwarded
>without comment...
>
>"The parents of 4-year-old Sarah Engstrand filed a US $1.2
>million
>lawsuit in New York City against the girls' grandparents because
>the elder couple's Akita dog, Becky Bear, bit and deeply scarred
>
>Sarah's nose and cheek during the girl's birthday party in 1994.
>The grandparents are heartsick at being sued by their own son,
>who not surprisingly is a lawyer, as is his wife."
>
If I had to guess, based on no other information, I would guess that this is
a scheme to get around the inheritance tax, which will tax a bequest from
the grandparents to the kids or grandkids, at a confiscatory rate of 45% if th
ey
have a sizeable estate.

On the other hand, tort damages for physical injury are generally excluded fro
m
taxes.  Therefore, the unfortunate injury to the daughter may be a vehicle for
all concerned to avoid the inheritance tax.  (Or it may not be; I'm only
guessing).

Sounds like a clever scheme, by a clever lawyer.  The kind of lawyer people
pay good money for.

Roger J. Buffington
W6VZV
[e-mail]

USC Law School, Class of '97

--------------------------------------------------
"I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my Grandfather."
"Not screaming, and in terror, like his passengers."
--------------------------------------------------



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:53 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!205.231.120.2!puzzle.palace.net!k2wk
From: [e-mail] (Walt Kornienko)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Radial Wire Type and Source?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 12:26:49 GMT
Organization: Crystal Palace Networking
Lines: 16
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <57p96a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crystal.palace.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I'm looking for an inexpensive source for radial wire.
Several thousand feet are in order. Any suggestions as
to the type of wire to use and a source for such wire.


--

*****************************************************************
*                                                               *
*                73 de Walt Kornienko - K2WK (FRC)              *
*                                                               *
*        [e-mail]  or  [e-mail]        *
*        Snail: 52 Sunset Inn Rd  Lafayette,  NJ   07848        *
*        201-579-1966 (home)      or 201-579-3660 (shack)       *
*                                                               *
*****************************************************************


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:56 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Mail Administrator)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail
Date: 30 Nov 96 13:09:43 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
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Reply-To: Mail Administrator<[e-mail]>
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Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #850
To: [e-mail]


Ham-Ant Digest              Sat, 30 Nov 96       Volume 96 : Issue  850

Today's Topics:
                    AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
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policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 1996 12:58:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?

In article <57id4c$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (CHARLES J.
MICHAELS) writes:

>       However, for a ground strip you mioght be more concerned
>with reactance than resistance.
>
>Charlie, W7XC

Hi Charlie,

Gut feeling tells me the ractance would be higher too, wouldn't it? I need
to look at that.

73 Tom

------------------------------

End of Ham-Ant Digest V96 #850
******************************
--===========================_ _= 5780334(19596)--



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:57 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: vertical plans
Date: 30 Nov 1996 13:32:24 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
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I need some help. I want to build a vertical using aluminum tubing and any
other materials necessary (insulators wire etc..) and be able to use it on
10-80 meters. Anyone got plans or dimensions and how I would go about
this? A dipole is out due to where I live. E-mail me at [e-mail]
or post message here. Any and all help is appreciated. (I would buy a Gap,
but the budget and wife say no). Thanks and 73, KB9NQD.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:58 1996
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From: Leo Potjewijd <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bicycle mobile?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 14:28:00 GMT
Organization: Lazy Lion
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57pg9g$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43327 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32201

Hello fellow biking hams!

As a contribution to the bike-mobile discussion here is my setup:

Biking dayly fo and from QRL (30 min. ride through the heart of
Amsterdam) i use my Albrecht RL102 2meter transceiver with a homebrew 1/4
wave antenna (of 1 mm springwire in a BNC plug) directly on top.
With this antenna setup i can work most 2m repeaters of in a radius of
approximately 30 miles, buildings and conditions permitting.

The transceiver goes into my left front/breast pocket of my jeans jacket,
secured by the clip. The only drawback is that i cannot see the display
that way.

The speaker/mic arrangement i use is a cheap PC multimedia headset with
changed plugs and a ptt switch built into the mic cord. A small surplus
pushbutton (as used in many discarded VCRs) is easily mounted directly in
the cord and finished with 2-component resin or glue.

A spare battery pack (i have approx. 2 1/2 hours of use with one pack)
goes anywhere convenient, but quickly reachable (utility pocket of
backpack, or coatpocket).

You DO get a few strange looks when you ride along wearing a headset with
the antenna sticking out of your pocket and talking to an invisible
person. When stopped for crossroads, people may even stare at you as if
you were from a different planet, but what the heck.

Have fun and keep in mind that the traffic CAN kill you.....

73 de PE1RHX, Leo.

P.S. Anybody really knows about that transceiver of mine? Seems to be
sold under various names, including REXON. Wanna know about the little
solderlinks inside: which does what?



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:32:59 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!gryphon.phoenix.net!lewis
From: [e-mail] (Lewis P. Stephens Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Can you operate HF Mobile from a Corvette????
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 08:54:54 -0600
Organization: Amber, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57f82n$[e-mail]>
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In article <57f82n$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Patrick Tatro) wrote:

>I've been operating HF from my 89 GMC van for a
>number of years now. I'll soon be using a 75
>Corvette as my main means of transportation.
>
>   Is there enough metal to create a good antenna
>system? I don't want to start running coax and
>power lines if it's just a bad idea.
>
>
>73's
>Patrick N0WCG

I just bought a Corvette myself and I have thought about slipping a Icom
706 into it for a trip back home. Any ideas would be appreciated here, too.

Lewis

--
Lewis P. Stephens Jr.               KM5BH (Amateur Radio Callsign)
Amber, Inc.                         CLARC (Clear Lake Amateur Radio Club)
[e-mail]                   NAMU (NASA Area Macintosh Users)
[e-mail]
73404.1403.compuserve.com


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:01 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!205.252.116.190!feed1.news.erols.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Sutton)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Windoms
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 15:17:20 GMT
Organization: Erol's Internet Services
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <57djvl$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: spg-as14s81.erols.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

[e-mail] (R.Moroney) wrote:

>Hey, don't laugh...
>
>During a recent morning commute listen on one of the local 2m repeaters,
>I heard a guy talking about putting up "some kind of antenna" to get back
>on HF after moving to a new neighborhood with, presumably, restrictions
>on what sort of antenna structures can grace the local skyline.  The guy
>actually did mention "Zepp" as one of the candidate antennas for his new
>QTH, so I guess the technology is alive and well, at least in "3" land.
>Perhaps he lives in one of the many local historical districts, with
>protective covenants restricting what can be done on and to a property.
>He may only be able to put up "historically-compatible" antennas
>(aerials?) such as the Zepp...  ;-)
>
>Anyway, as of this past Monday, the Windom technology is also alive and
>well in MD, since I hoisted the mighty Antennas West TNT Windom up into
>the trees behind the house.  I felt a bit edgy without the validation of
>the ARRL Antenna Handbook, but so far, so good, with no electrocutions or
>RF incinerations, at least of family members or pets...   ;-)
>
>73, Bob K9CMR
>
>
>In article <57djvl$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>> Yeah, the ARRL drops the Windom from the HANDBOOK and next thing you
>> know, it's a no-code free-for-all with vanity calls to the highest
>> bidder!
>>
>> The handbook is full of irrelevant, little-used antenna lore. One of my
>> faves is the "END-FED ZEPP". (Sounds very roaring-twenties, don't it?
>> Can't you picture some kid in a racoon coat signing "FB OM. RIG HR IS
>> FORD SPARK COIL ES ANT IS END FED ZEPP"?) I have never met anybody who
>> used or claimed to have used one, but I'm dying to know if the silly
>> thing works.
>>
>>
>>                    half wave
>> -----oOOo-oOOo-------------------------oOOo----
>>     |    |
>>     |    |
>>     |    |
>>   open wire feeders (of course!)
>>
>>
>> -joe WB1GFH

******************************************************************************
****************************8
Joe - Sorry to confuse you - or confound you but the "Irrelevant" -
"End Fed Zepp" is the only true "ZEPP" antenna.  It was first used on
Zeppelins as a trailing wire antenna and this is how it got the name.


No other antenna is a true ZEPP antenna - just confusion amongst the
troops.

And yes - they do work.

73/Jim/AC4CZ

>>
>>
>>



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:02 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need insulator source
Date: 30 Nov 1996 16:49:54 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

I'm looking for some W4FXQ antenna insulators.  They are black plastic, 6"
long, and 1" diameter.  They have radial fins, and the fins are arranged
to guide the winding of a coil around the insulator, for use as the coil
part of a trap, or just as a coil.  One side is marked with "W4FXQ" and a
patent number.  Does anyone know where I can get some?

                                                   Steve   W9HJW


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:04 1996
From: [e-mail] (Don Phelps)
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!infoway!don.phelps
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Balanced Feeders!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:21:26 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Infoway BBS [phone] 28,800 8-N-1
Lines: 31


 Jt> 1) Has anybody ever made their own open-wire feeder? I never did,

Not I.

 Jt> 2) I've seen several references in old handbooks and ham publications
 Jt> (1950's-60's) to "TV-type open wire line". Was there some kind of
 Jt> "open  wire" line manufactured for TV receivers during the days of
 Jt> Uncle Milty?

When I was first licensed in about 1958 (KN6SDA), I installed
TV antennas.  For a customer behind a hill, we installed the
antenna on top of the hill and ran the 300 feet of
open wire ladder line down to the house.
I'm Uncle Don.

Similar to the 450 ohm open ladder line now available, and used
by me.

 Jt> 4) MFJ tuners: You either love 'em or hate 'em. Are they junk --or
 Jt> gems?  Perhaps "rolling your own" is best, but I hear that the "Johnson
 Jt> Matchbox" was/is still the Cadillac of tuners. What's the scoop?

 I have been satisfied with my Johnson Kilowatt Matchbox.

Don, N6MCE



... [e-mail]  1:125/104 POBox 9739 San Rafael,CA 94912
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:04 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!omnifest.uwm.edu!omnifest.uwm.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Rick Kissell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: How  Well Does R7 Work on 40M?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 11:51:51 -0600
Organization: Omnifest
Lines: 16
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <57ps7n$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.70.58

I've had an R-7 mounted on a 5 ft. South River tripod on the roof of my 1 1/2
story stone home in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  On 40 meters, I have routinely
worked 3B8CF.  On 30, I've worked both Franz Josef Land and Antartica several
times.  In March, I worked C56CW and 3DA0CA on 40 m.  (The latter was calling
CQ, and I got him with my first call!)

My other 40m DX with the R-7 includes HI7V, ZL4FC, XF3/OH3JF, CM8JY, PR8BNP,
WN4KKN/HC8, HI3CVV, CO2MA, YL3IZ/MM ("Zone 36"), CL6ID, PY6JJ, W9BWC/C6A,
3D2CU, CM6WD, PT7CRK, VY2EA, 6E2T, 9A1A, J6/K9BG,TG9YV, 6D2X, TI1C, PY7ZZ,
PR8BN, TI5NW, PJ7/K1VSJ, and 8P6EH.

All worked with a barefoot TS-940SAT.

73,

Rick WB9GYT


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:05 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!news.intercon.com!news.iac.net!news.cistron.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!IRIS.2001.net!news.telebyte.nl!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Robert Brink)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Covert vehicle antennas wanted
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:57:42 GMT
Organization: Br.Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <57psjs$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-00.nmg.telebyte.nl
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

For a special project (retrieval of stolen vehicles) I am looking for
covert VHF antennas. The frequency is just below the six meter amateur
band (39.1 MHz).
I have seen several ideas in the ARRL Antenna Book, such as a
helically wound short vertical antenna and of course the usual
shortened 1/4 wave antenna with a loading coil, but imagine a Ferrari
or Lamborghini with a whip antenna, that looks a bit suspicious to a
professional thief :)
I am trying to construct one of my own, but if someone knows a good
design or (better) a manufacturer in the US or Europe, I would be
happy to hear that.

tnx es 73 de Robert

ESRAC Homepage: http://www.esrac.ele.tue.nl (soon also: .../~robert)
E-mail: [e-mail] (The *best* internet provider in Nijmegen)
        [e-mail] (Redirected mail address for radio amateurs)
        [e-mail] (Eindhoven Student Radio Amateur Club)



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:07 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!198.207.169.10!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!atdbbs!clint.bradford
From: [e-mail] (Clint Bradford)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Does Anyone Have a good 2m J-pole plan?
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 18:34:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: ATTENTION to Details BBS - Mira Loma, CA
Distribution: world
References: <57oc2t$n20$[e-mail]> <01bbde06$376422a0$[e-mail]
Lines: 58


>I was looking for a j-pole antenna plan so I could try to get into some of
>the more distant repeaters

---------

          THE POCKET PORTABLE J-POLE
                 for 2 meters


Here's a neat little project that will prove useful           Hole optional
for portable operation or improving your HT in the           lo l
fringe areas.                                                l  l
                                                             l  l
1.  Cut a piece of TV twin-lead 55 1/8" long.                l  l
                                                             l  l
2.  Clean off 1/2" of insulation at one end.                 l  l
    Twist the exposed ends together and solder.              l  l
                                                             l  l
3.  Measure 16 5/8" from the shorted end and remove          l  l  55 1/8"
    1/4" of conductor on one side.                           l  l   total
                                                             l  l
    Note:  You now have a half-wave radiator                 l  l
    connected to a 1/4 wave stub.  Now all you have          l  l
    to do is connect a piece of 50 ohm coax to the           l  l
    50 ohm impedance point on the stub.                      l  l
                                                             l  l
4.  Cut a piece of 1/8" RG174U coax about 6' long.           l  l
    (RG58U is OK but it doesn't fit in your pocket       1/4"   l
    so well.)  Put an antenna connector on one end       gap    l  16 5/8"
    and open up the other end for making connection          l  l <to bottom
    to the stub.                                             l  l  of gap
                                                             l  l
5.  Open the two twin-lead conductors up at a point          l  l
    1 1/4" from the shorted end and solder the coax          l  l
    braid to the short conductor and the coax center         l  l
    lead to the long conductor.  Cover the joint with        l  l  1 1/4"
    electrical tape.                                         l--l <to coax
                                                             ll l  connect
6.  Punch a small hole at the open end of the twin-          ll l  point
    lead to permit using a string to support the             ll l
    antenna from any convenient place.                       llll <shorted
                                                              l
Results will suprise you.  Expect several "S" unit            l
improvement over the pull-out whip or even more over          lCOAX 50 ohms
the rubber duckie.                                            l
---------
                                                       Measurements from
                                                       the shorted end.



You might want to use heat shrink on the connections
after you get it working.  Also, do step 2 first. I broke
a conductor when 'cleaning' it, and had to start over.
The measurement would then be 54 5/8" (end to short).

              -- Ian KD6EPQ


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:08 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!198.207.169.10!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!atdbbs!clint.bradford
From: [e-mail] (Clint Bradford)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Does Anyone Have a good 2m J-pole plan?
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 18:35:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: ATTENTION to Details BBS - Mira Loma, CA
Distribution: world
References: <57oc2t$n20$[e-mail]> <01bbde06$376422a0$[e-mail]
Lines: 56


>I was looking for a j-pole antenna plan so I could try to get into some of
>the more distant repeaters


     === 2m/70cm Dual Band J-Pole made from 300 ohm twin lead ===

              _____      _______       ___
                |       |       |       |
                |       |   O   |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
             54-1/4"    |       |    38-1/2"
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |      _|       |
                |       |   N |_       _|__
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |       |
                |       |       |    15-3/4"
                |       |       |       |
                |       |_______| ___   |
                |       |       | 1/4"  |
               _|_      |       | ___  _|__
                        ^       ^
                        |       |
                    Coax Inner  Coax Outer
                    Conductor   Conductor


         SWR is 2:1 across the 2m band and from 435mhz to
                     450mhz on the 70cm band.


1.  Use good quality TV twin lead.
2.  Strip insulation at the solder point for coax feedline.
3.  Cut out and remove the 1/2" long notch N.
4.  Feed with a length of 50 ohm coax and terminate with the
    appropriate connector.  Tape coax at feedpoint to the twin lead,
    or use heat shrink, and make sure the joints are insulated from
    each other.
5.  Antenna may be sleeved inside 1/2" PVC for outside mounting or
    hung on a loop of string run thru hole O.


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:09 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!193.118.80.10!nntp.onyx.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Paul Mooney)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 6M antenna
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:00:02 GMT
Organization: ONYX Internet
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <57q0e5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: r03-50.octacon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi everybody,

I'm looking for a simple indoor  6 metre antenna design for loft use.
Any suggestions please?

73s de Paul G7SPV



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:10 1996
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From: James Lee Tabor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: building your own antenna
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 13:04:02 -0600
Organization: Kangaroo Tabor Software
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: Todd Bortke <[e-mail]>

Todd Bortke wrote:
>
> Where can I get information on building my own CB antenna

Hi,

The ARRL Antenna Book is a good place to start. Available from ARRL:
http://www.arrl.org/

Good Luck,
Jim
--
Communications Analysis Prediction Wizard
http://www.wtrt.net/~ku5s/
CAPMan HF Propagation Prediction & System Analysis Software
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KU5S


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:11 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!204.74.114.90!news.genuity.net!news.avatar.com!avatar.avatar.com!kory
From: Kory Hamzeh <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna/Tuner Questions
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 11:39:30 -0800
Organization: Avatar Consultants, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: avatar.avatar.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hi,

I'm trying to put together a simple setup for portable operations when I
am traveling. I have an Icom 706, MFJ 901B tuner, and a gell cell.

Here are my questions:

1. Is it better to have several antennas cut for different frequencies
and not use a tuner, or cut the antennas for the lowest frequency and use
a tuner? I keep getting different answers from different people.

2. At low elevations (<20 feet), would a dipole work better or a random
   wire antenna? What if I don't have a good ground source for the random
   wire?

3. What is the rule for maximum ground wire length? Is it less than 1/4
   of the highest operating frequency?

4. When going camping, what is a good source for ground?

5. I'm building my own tuner with a built in rx noise
   bridge. I'm concerned about stray inductance from the wires inside the
   tuner. Will using coax INSIDE the tuner help reduce the possibility of
   stray inductance?

Any help would be really apreciated. As I talk to more people, I get more
and more confused.

Thanks,
Kory
AC6RN



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:12 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!ocean.netrover.com!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Fw: items for sale
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 20:50:58 GMT
Organization: Netrover
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <N.113096.155058.41@LOCALNAME>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ascend20.netrover.com
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [1.1]


> kenwood ts520s with ext. vfo d104 mic. and spare finals in mint condition an
d
> operation .....asking $425.00cdn inclues service and owners manual and spare

> tubes
>
> icom t21a 2 meter hand held with 800meg monitor 100mem excellent condition
> comes with icm cig ltr adaptor box...and manual    $220.00 cdn
>
> palomar tx500 hf solid state amp 1.8 30mgz brand new used 3 times since
> acquired a tube amp 3 power levels and built in pre-amp must be seen
> $350.00 firm cdn.
>
> 2 rfparts 572b tubes brand new never used $110.00cdn u.p.shipping
>
>
>
> all items are in perfect working order and will split on shipping depending
> on
> where...
>
> contact graham dyer va3gjb at [e-mail] or ph# 905-836-0052
> newmarket
> ont. canada
>
>
>
forward



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:13 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 6M antenna
Date: 30 Nov 1996 20:58:57 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57q0e5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]

Hi Paul--

Might be helpful to know a little more about what you wish to accomplish.
Specifically, do you want vertical or horizontal polarization--and omni,
bi or uni-directional coverage?

Rick  K1BQT



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:14 1996
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From: "mbeadles" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: has anyone made a DTMF controled rotor
Date: 30 Nov 1996 21:36:58 GMT
Organization: Sirius Systems Group, Inc.
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <01bbdf07$78763b00$375003cf@jim-beck>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp55.sirinet.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

has anyone made a DTMF controled rotor for a repeater sight that can be
used to create variable links to other repeatersvia a controled beam.... if
so please Email me for futher contacts



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:15 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!news.ipass.net![e-mail]
From: "David A. Cooley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2m and 440
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 16:43:32 -0500
Organization: IPass.net
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: customs329.ipass.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
To: Don Phelps <[e-mail]>

Don Phelps wrote:
>
>  Dave,
>
>  I hear that a 1/4 wave ground plane, or 1/2 wave dipole
>  2 m antenna works fine on 440.
>
>  But you ask if a 5/8 wave antenna's matching circuit will
>  match on both 146 and 440 MHz, which is a much more
>  complex and unlikely possibility.
>
>  But if you feed it with 100 feet of RG-58, it should show
>  a low SWR on both bands. :-) Hi.

I'll give it a try!!   ;-)

Later,
Dave


--
========================================================================
David Cooley N5XMT                  Packet: N5XMT@W4RAL.#RTP.NC.USA.NOAM
Internet: [e-mail]    And Web: http://www.ipass.net/~cooldave/
Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't!
========================================================================


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:16 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AEA isoloop vs MFJ super loop?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 22:13:32 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57ot88$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <57ot88$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Nelson)
writes:

>
>If I remember correctly, the inductive reactance is higher for a braided
>strip than it is for a flat sheet of the same width.
>
>Is that why solid shielding is used on the very low loss coax versions?
>
>Bill

Braiding has higher resistance and inductance, that's because the path is
longer. The rough outer surface and thousands of pressure connections as
the individual wires weave in and out are the problem.

Making the surface rough is a problem, that's why anodizing and wire
brushing RF conductors is a bad idea.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:17 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radial Wire Type and Source?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 22:13:33 GMT
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1.13)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <57p96a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <57p96a$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walt
Kornienko) writes:

>
>I'm looking for an inexpensive source for radial wire.
>Several thousand feet are in order. Any suggestions as
>to the type of wire to use and a source for such wire.

Hi Walt,

I always order regular tinned copper buss wire from wire venors like
Interstate Wire and Cable when I do radials.

I usually pay something under $20 per thousand feet for #16.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:19 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:26:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Arkansas
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <56clho$8cp$[e-mail]> <57a3vj$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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There are only 3 laywer jokes...

all the rest are true stories!

On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:09:28 GMT, [e-mail] (CDN) wrote:

>[e-mail] (Anthony S. Pelliccio) wrote:
>
>
>>For some absolutely hysterical lawyer jokes surf on over to
>>http://cartalk.com and look for the picture of a shark with a tie on. Click
>>on it and be launched into a sampling of NOLO Press' favorite lawyer jokes.
>>
>>Tony
>
>
>Why is it that when you tell a 'joke' about an Irishman it is called
>tasteless; when you tell a joke about a black it is called racist, and
>when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?
>
>hmmmm
>
>cdn
>
>



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:20 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Stanley D Gruver)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,
Subject: Satellite Receiver ******FOR SALE******
Date: 30 Nov 1996 22:36:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <57qcu1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tul-ok6-53.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Nov 30  4:36:49 PM CST 1996
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:119223 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32220 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21578


    Used

    Toshiba TRX 80 with VC2+      $275
    Panasonic 4500 with VC2+      $275
    VC2+ decoder                  $150

   A complete system with receiver, VC2+, new 25 degree LNB, new
feedhorn, new 24" actuator, new 7.5' mesh dish for ONLY $625 plus
shipping.

   E-mail reply please
                           Thanks,  Maura


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (derek hutter)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 6M antenna
Date: 30 Nov 1996 23:29:38 GMT
Organization: Pacifier Internet Server [phone]
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <57qg12$[e-mail]>
References: <57q0e5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip116.van4.pacifier.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2

In article <57q0e5$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>I'm looking for a simple indoor  6 metre antenna design for loft use.
>Any suggestions please?
>
>73s de Paul G7SPV

The Turnstile is effective and low cost to build.

Derek KJ7HB




From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:22 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: inverted V
Date: 1 Dec 1996 00:07:47 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57qi8j$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


I asked -
 Bill,
>         Please define "true ground level" and "effective ground level"
> Charlie, W7XC
 Bill replied -
True ground level is something you can stand on, dirt usually.  Now, if
it's wet dirt, it may also represent effective ground level.  As it drys
out, it moves down.  It's not a clear cut thing however, just a
generalization.  Depending on the conditions, and I base this on
experience with broacast transmitter sites where patterns are routinely
monitored and analyzed, the radiation pattern for the antennas is
constantly changing because of this fact.

Did you ever wonder why lots of AM sites were put in the worst boggy
ground?  It's not just because these places are usually in the low rent
district, but because of the good grounding effect.

After a dry spell, effective ground level will be somewhere below ground.
Putting in a ground plane or using radials is the common method to make
sure effective ground level is near the surface, or even raise it above
ground somewhat.

Bill,
        I seems to me that all that has changed is the earth characteristics
such as dielectric constant and conductivity which will usually then
simply cause increased stratification of layers of various earth
characteristics.
        While this will indeed have effects on antenna parameters I
fail to see how this has changed the height that might be used to
calculate the new antenna parameters.  The same is true of the
area beyond a radial system that is reflecting the radiated signal
or overwhich the ground wave is propagated.

Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:23 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!128.83.139.5!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop
From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Windoms
Date: 1 Dec 1996 00:21:14 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <57qj1q$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu




        The "End Fed Zepp" Joe shows certainly wont work.


        The "End Fed Zepp" Joe shows certainly won't work.

>
>>                    half wave
>> -----oOOo-oOOo-------------------------oOOo----
>>     |    |
>>     |    |
>>     |    |
>>   open wire feeders (of course!)
>>
>>
>> -joe WB1GFH

        He has the feeder connected wrong.  It should go across
the second insulator from the left.
        However the "so called End Fed Zepp" of amateur use usually
actually operates as a random length wire because of severe current
imballance in the feeders, not only because of the floating feeder
end, but because of asymetry with the half wave section.

Charlie, W7XC
--


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:24 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.comm.net!ts01-port07.nod.comm.net!horizons
From: [e-mail] (Karen E.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: effects of hurricanes on communications
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 00:44:00 UNDEFINED
Organization: CommNet Inc.
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts01-port07.nod.comm.net
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]

Greetings all;

I am currently writing an article for a ARES Internet News Letter on the
effects of tidal surge, high winds, tornados and over usage of these systems
in the event of a catagory 4 or 5 hurricane striking the US.  As I live in New

Orleans, I have not experanced a major hurricane sense Camile in 69 and
Betsy in 63.  Neither of these storms had a direct impact on the city. Even if

they had, the types of communications that both civilians and goverment where
only a dream or thought in someones mind.

I am looking for any information from those that have been in HAM radio or
involved with local or state goverment communications in an area hit by a
major storm in the last 10 years or so.  I could really use thyeir input in
order to make sure what I write is as close to the truth as possible.  What I
need to know is:

1.      How badly where the systems jammed before the storm hit?

2.      What was communications like during the storm?

3.      How many different types of systems where down after thye storm
        pasted. ie; Commerical, Goverment and Amateur?

4.      How long did it that to get these systems back operational?

5.      What form of communications where use after the storm, and before normal
        communications where restored?

6.      What lessons where learned by both those that use VHF, UHF, 800 & 900
        trucking and Celluar?

The answers I reveive could help other areas prepare for the possibility of
such a storm.  As for New Orleans, we really need a wake up call as many of
those living here have never been in a severe hurricane ands think fror
whatever reason God will protect our city. So, if any of you could help
enlighten me as to what occured in your area, I would be most grateful.

Please send all answers to: [e-mail]

73's DE Karen E. Johansen - KC5FCU
EC East Jefferson Parish, LA.
Amateur Radio Emergency Service
http:www.accesscom.net/~gmccraw



From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:25 1996
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!155.212.1.8!paperboy.ids.net!anomaly.ideamation.com!anomaly.ideamation.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Anthony S. Pelliccio)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Re: ARRL lawyer to sue member
Date: 30 Nov 1996 21:36:50 -0500
Organization: Ideamation, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <57qr02$[e-mail]>
References: <01bb739f.8e9f00c0$[e-mail]> <57ac8a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: anomaly.ideamation.com
Xref: news1.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:32239 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:20432 rec.radio.amateur.dx:1450 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:43391 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:21605 rec.radio.amateur.misc:119274 rec.radio.amateur.policy:43679 rec.radio.amateur.space:8965

In article <[e-mail]>,  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>There are only 3 laywer jokes...
>
>all the rest are true stories!

I can pretty much believe that. After reading those it makes me wish
I had a daughter so I could forbid her to marry a lawyer. :)

>>Why is it that when you tell a 'joke' about an Irishman it is called
>>tasteless; when you tell a joke about a black it is called racist, and
>>when you tell a joke about a lawyer it is called funny?

Even though you didn't post this, I missed the original response so here
goes:

The reason it's funny is because by and large most lawyers are lower
than slime.

Tony





From [e-mail] Tue Dec 03 19:33:26 1996
From: [e-mail] (Don Phelps)
Path: news1.epix.net!news4.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!infoway!don.phelps
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 6m antenna good for TVI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 03:41:30 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Infoway BBS [phone] 28,800 8-N-1
Lines: 61

 Pr> Reply-To: [e-mail]
 Pr> NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.cc.oberlin.edu

Bill,
A good antenna for you would be a
multi band yagi or log periodic antenna
designed for 6m,2m,1.2m .7m, and built to look like a TV antenna.

I would guess the best situation would be the most directivity
for your 6m and his Channel 2/3.

That would argue against the halo.

Why not put up a 1/4 wave groundplace for 6m, just to investigate
the affect of vertical vs horizontal polarization on the TVI.

Why not build a horizontal dipole or folded dipole
for the interferred channel and connect to your TV,
and see if you can make any improvements.
Then you can suggest your improvements to your neighbor.

My suggestions:
1. Eliminate antenna currants on your 6m feedline.
Perhaps pass the coax through ferite toroids both at the
antenna and at the rig.

2. Make a 1/4 wavelength shorted stub for your 6m ssb freq
and connect to the TV antenna terminals.

Make an antenna currant choke for the TV feedline.

If the above fails, perhaps make a mutual coupling
antenna tuner that covers 6m.

If the above fails, then:

3. Perhaps you could buy a best quality directional
roof mount TV antenna and see if that

Compare reception on the TV with vert or horz. polarization,
with your 6m antennas.

4. Suggest your neighbor subscribe to cable.

Don, N6MCE

 Pr> I was transmitting on 6m SSB last night using the usual 8 watts
 Pr> out from a transverter to an inverted vee up around 35 feet when
 Pr> a neighbor knocked on the door stating his TV was being "wiped out."
 Pr> Since my transmissions don't affect our own TV, which is on cable,
 Pr> I believe his TV is hooked up to rabbit ears and he's listening to
 Pr> broadcast TV, probably channel 3.  I'm planning to install a 6m
 Pr> halo soon, with a directional antenna of some sort to follow next
 Pr> year.  Would the halo, and a quad or yagi, make the TVI worse, or
 Pr> better?  What antenna would cause the least TVI?  Thanks for your
 Pr> help.  --Bill KB8USZ  [e-mail]



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