World of Ham Radio 1997/WOHR97_AmSoft_(1997-02-01).iso/usenets/1996_08/_antenna.txt

Text File | 1997-02-01 | 997KB | 23,105 lines

The World of Ham Radio CD-ROM



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:36:55 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Adriaan van den Brand)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Comet manufactor address wanted
Date: 1 AUG 1996 8:35:3 GMT
Organization: Professional Audio Center
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Who knows the address of the comet manfactor ( i thinks i will be in Japan ?),
 because i want to order an
new plug for the broken one. Now the antenna is useless. Thanks in advance for
 reading this message.
Best 73's from Hans de PA3GPW. Please E-mail to [e-mail].


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:36:57 1996
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From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio.packet,alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,fidonet.ham,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,slac.rec.ham_radio,su.org.ham-radio,swb.lists.linux.hams,rec.radio.swap,tnn.radio.amateur,uwarwick.societies.amateur-radio
Subject: Revised Homepage URL
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 10:20:54 -0700
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 8
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Xref: news2.epix.net alt.radio.scanner:32465 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23479 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16630 rec.radio.amateur.dx:162 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31463 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16315 rec.radio.amateur.misc:105682 rec.radio.amateur.policy:35745 rec.radio.amateur.space:7371 fidonet.ham:9 slac.rec.ham_radio:64 su.org.ham-radio:295 swb.lists.linux.hams:15 rec.radio.swap:70961 tnn.radio.amateur:69 uwarwick.societies.amateur-radio:28

Sorry for not having the url in there....
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860

Enjoy!!!!!

dave booth kc6wfs
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:36:57 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Korchinski)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: MFJ 10-30 Loop- DC Motor
Date: 1 Aug 1996 15:21:56 GMT
Organization: Health and Welfate Canada
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4tqi2k$[e-mail]>
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Just bought an MFJ 1786 HI-Q SuperLoop and found out the plastic gears in
the DC motor (12-V, 0.5 RPM) were stripped (the L-shaped aluminum range
bracket on the variable capacitor was missing the cutoff switches).

I'm waiting for a replacement from MFJ, but was wondering if there is any
reason for the necessity of having plastic gears in the motor (eg. possible
arcing due to the high feedpoint RF current?). It's such an el-cheapo
motor I'd rather replace it with a good quality fine-gear motor.

73,
Mark VA3ZU



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:36:58 1996
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From: Steve Ickes <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 20:32:16 -0700
Organization: Erols Internet Services
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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         <4t6mc6$[e-mail]> <4tjdqq$[e-mail]>
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Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
>
> Roy Lewallen wrote:
> >There is no reason that an explanation must be
> >technically wrong in order to be simple or easy to understand.
>
> Darn right!
>
> 73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
>                           'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
> Professionally:
> IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


Got news fer ya, this guy isn't the only person who thinks antennas MUST
be resonant to work! Too many hams thinks this way.

S


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:36:59 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: "Al Koblinski  (W7XA)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Butternut HF5B wisdom
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Many folks have used 2 el yagi such as the old HyGain TH2 on a TV rotor.
I personally have used 2 el quads with good success, 8 ft. boom.
The HB9CV swiss quads (maybe still available from TET in Japan or
homebrew) work great too. All are very effective small(ish) antennas.
73, Al




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:02 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: 2 Aug 1996 03:48:45 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4trtqt$[e-mail]>
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Steve Ickes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Got news fer ya, this guy isn't the only person who thinks antennas MUST
>be resonant to work! Too many hams thinks this way.

Hi Steve, got news for you - non-resonant transmitting antenna
*systems* really do not work very well. However, it is pretty
easy to resonate a non-resonant *length* antenna with a tuned
feedline and/or antenna tuner. If the transmitter sees a non-
dissipative resistive load, then the antenna system *is*
resonant. Walter Maxwell said it best, "My Transmatch Really
Does Tune (resonate) My Antenna".

A low-loss tuned feedline performs exactly the same function
as an antenna tuner (sometimes more efficiently) but tuned
feedlines seem to be a lost art/science. All conjugately-
matched transmission lines with an SWR greater than 1:1 are
tuned feeders and may stand alone and/or help or hinder an
antenna tuner in doing an efficient job.

Moral is: Pick a transmission line length that will help to
resonate the antenna system. Contrary to popular belief, the
best transmission line length may not be the exact length
necessary to get to the hamshack.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:03 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:44:53 +0100
Organization: IFW Technical Services
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 <4t6mc6$[e-mail]> <4tjdqq$[e-mail]>
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>non-resonant transmitting antenna
>*systems* really do not work very well.

> Walter Maxwell said it best, "My Transmatch Really
>Does Tune (resonate) My Antenna".
>
Cecil Moore said it much better than Walt Maxwell's title.

Maxwell's whole point was that the antenna system involves the feedline
and the transmatch as well as the antenna. But the title ruins the
effect of whole article by missing out that vital word "System".

To the casual reader who only reads headlines and thinks in slogans, the
title actually reinforces the myth Maxwell was trying to destroy.

We'd all be doing him a favor by *not* quoting that unfortunate title.


73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:04 1996
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From: Dave Ingram <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Yagi Design Software
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:49:22 -0700
Organization: Power Electronics, Dept. EEE, Uni. Canterbury
Lines: 10
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Hi All,

I am interested in building a yagi for 70cm operation. I have come
across antenna analysis tools (Yagimax), but not software to do the
design. I am looking for a good gain antenna with around 7-10
elements. If you know of some designs or software for an IBM
compatible PC (Dos, Win, or OS/2), please let me know.

Thanks in advance,
        Dave Ingram, ZL3TDI.


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Markey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Full Wave Dipole, Off-Center Fed
Date: 2 Aug 96 10:22:27 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Does anyone have any experience with full wave dipoles fed 1/4 wave from =
either end, rather than the 2 half waves in phase arrangement?  I've =
heard a few people running these antennas but have never seen any =
discussion of the advantage or disadvantage of this type of feed.

Rick, KN3C


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (CHRISTOPHER CARTWRIGHT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Design for 2 metre home brew antenna
Date: 2 Aug 1996 11:47:29 GMT
Organization: Erol's Internet Service
Lines: 17
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References: <4tsm60$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 BETA-950824-16colors PL0]

[e-mail] wrote:
: Can anyone send me a simple design for a 2 metre beam antenna, the
: simpler the better?  Alternatively perhaps someone can tell me where I
: can find such a design.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.
:

How's $5 (USD or UKP, doesn't matter :) for a six element sound?  Take a
look at  http://www.phoenix.net/USERS/biekert/vjb.html ,  I have built
some of these and am VERY pleased with the results.  Mine are made of wood
scraps and vinyl coated steel clothes line.

They really do work, but as always there is some tuning to do, good luck!

-- Christopher Cartwright, Tech. Engineer    |  ...our chief weapons are fear,
-- Voice 301.295.0809      N3XRV             |  fear and surprise, and nice
-- Mail  [e-mail]         |  red uniforms, oh damn!!
--       [e-mail]                     |        -- Monty Python


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:06 1996
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From: "Bill C." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Distance
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 14:08:30 -0700
Organization: The Internet Ramp
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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A Guy named Moe wrote:
>
> I am wondering what is the main factor in deturmaning the distance that
> a signal my be sent quickly and with clear reception?
>
> thanks

The *main* factor is the receiver.

        Bill  KU8H


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ton Muller)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 questions.
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 17:05:03 GMT
Organization: Internet user at CUCI.NL
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <32023401.875010@news>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: d24.din.cuci.nl
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

1] I buyd a comet GP9 VHf-UHF antenne ,but i want to know what the real Gain i
s.

2] for a'n pall without antenne ,i look for a duoband dipole (for building one
)
(sorry for the bad writing.)
Ton Muller
Live long and prosper.


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:07 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Design for 2 metre home brew antenna
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 18:47:09 GMT
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Can anyone send me a simple design for a 2 metre beam antenna, the
simpler the better?  Alternatively perhaps someone can tell me where I
can find such a design.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Stephen G7UXL



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Dunmyer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 40 meter band
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 02:25:25 GMT
Organization: NetZone Services L.L.C.  (602) 991-4NET
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4tubk7$[e-mail]>
References: <4sp889$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:

>Can anyone give me some information on how to construct a 40 meter antenna on
 a very limited space.
>thank on advance
>73
>9m2me
Many many years ago, in an old QST, I saw an article about a ground
plane which was a helical wound antenna, it was a helical wound around
a piece of lath type of wood for crude expieriamentatin.   Basically a
helical vertical is 1/2 wavelength of wire wound on a pole...you can
also use another half wave around a pole for the radials....takes a
lot of wire but according to the article the longer  the pole it was
wound on the better it worked....this particular one was for 15 m and
was only 30 inches high with similiar length radials.....author
claimed it worked ok....
Illigitimi non carborundum



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (John Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Formula for 80M Vertical
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 96 04:32:22 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Dept.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4tul00$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-229.minn.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tony Wil
kes) wrote:
>Thanks for reading
>more thanks for a reply ;-))
>
>I cannot find a formula for working out the sizes for a centre
>loaded 80M vertical ( very little space and I would like to work
>locals )
>
>If the antena is fed with 50ohm at the bottom and the bottom part
>is ,say, 6ft and the top part is 6ft what size ( in milli henries )
>coil do I need in the centre .
>
>Is there a general formula to work out this sort of thing - even if
>it only gives a reasonable starting point ???

Tony, the ARRL antenna handbook has a nifty chart for determining
the amount of inductive reactance need to make up the missing
part of an antenna based on its total length and where the coil is
located. It's among the most used pages in my book. One caveat
though. It has the most confusing index in the back of any technical
book I've ever seen! You should consider getting one, nevertheless.
For your design, it shoud range from about 100 to 125 microhenries
to cover the Phone and CW ends respectively. Good Luck
John Hill, NJ0M




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:10 1996
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From: Brian Butler <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Almost direct hit - lightning arrestors??
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 09:23:12 -0700
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet <[e-mail]>
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4s04kb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Drew Loker wrote:
>
> >Can you protect against a direct equipment strike?  I believe the answer to
 that
> is not reliably.

You better believe that there is a LOT of power in lightning and not much in t
he world
will stop it!

Our amateur repeater at 7200' took a direct hit and you can see what it did:

http://www.klondike.com/yara/montana.html

Brian Butler
Yukon Amateur Radio Association


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:11 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (John D. Seney, WD1V,   LeCroy T&M   800.553.2769)
Subject: KB6KQ Mobile Antenna Mounting Tips
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:50:08 GMT
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: wd1v.mv.com
Lines: 13

I'm getting ready to install a 6 meter halo loop on a Ford
Explorer - will be running an ICOM 706.

Any installation tips/ideas appreciated.

73,

                 John D. Seney |_|_|_|_| [e-mail]
             144 Pepperidge Dr |_|   |_| www.mv.com/ipusers/wd1v
     Manchester, NH 03103-6150 |_|_ _|_| [e-mail]
     V 603.533.3472 F 627.1623 | | | | | Paging [e-mail]

                www.lecroy.com/tm/appnotes/appnotes.html


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:12 1996
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From: Merv Stump <[e-mail]@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Front to Back Ratio - What is it?
Date: 3 Aug 1996 14:05:46 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4tvmbq$[e-mail]>
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Is there a standard/accepted definition of front to back ratio?  It
seems to mean different things in different modeling software.  ELNEC
appears to treat it simply as the ratio of the signal on the principal
azmuth to the signal at 180 degrees.  AO treats it as the ratio of the
power generated in the half plane of the principal axis(or some portion of
this plane) to the similar half plane(or portion) 180 degrees to the back.

In all cases are we looking at the same elevation angle for both front
and back?

Anyone got the "official definition"?

Regards, Merv



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:13 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news
From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tuners
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 15:06:48 -0700
Organization: none
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-109.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dan Calzaretta wrote:
>
> Can someone explain in simple language how an antenna tuner/transmatch
> works?  Thanks in advance.
>
> Dan

A transmatch uses inductors and capacitors (and possibly a transformer of
some kind) to perform an impedance transformation.  The complex impedance
(R + jX) of a transmission line (or possibly an antenna) is *transformed*
to some other input impedance at the transmatch input terminal, for
example 50 Ohms pure resistance, that the transmitter wants to "see" as a
load impedance.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:13 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: 3 Aug 1996 18:04:02 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4u04ai$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4ttgdp$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>What about: A log periodic
>Are these antennas resonant?

I hope at least a piece of Intel's new LP antenna is
resonant? :-) What is the 'Q' of an LP antenna that
works from 10m-20m vs the 'Q' of a single band Yagi?
Does that difference in 'Q' affect the
"gain versus bandwidth product" mentioned in the CQ
article? If the gain of an LP and a Yagi are the same,
and the bandwidth is a 100/1 ratio, does it matter?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:15 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!fu-berlin.de!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: "Skeleton Cone" Antenna?
Date: 3 Aug 1996 18:11:28 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4u04og$[e-mail]>
References: <4tthr6$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4ttsif$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Phil Brown) wrote:
>One antenna showed no deflection at all of
>the meter (S0?) while the skeleton deflected to 10 over S9.

Hi Phil, assuming your 'S' meter was functioning reasonably
well, that *is* quite a difference. Any explaination for
the difference? Did polarization or take-off angle have an
effect? Was this a ground-wave measurement or a sky-wave
measurement?

thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Curt Sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Website updated
Date: 3 Aug 1996 18:24:52 GMT
Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <CSanders-0308961420260001@205.246.83.177>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.246.83.177
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:105728 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23498 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16638 rec.radio.amateur.dx:169 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16321 rec.radio.amateur.space:7373

New and improved Web site!   www.QTH.com/N3TLJ  *Curt's Cyber Corner*
* faster loading home page
* aminated GIF
* for Ham Radio operators -- new URL form for updating/adding new sites
also with 262 selected new Ham Radio links added since mid-June 96.
Come visit! Netscape or Internet Explorer recommended to appreciate the site.


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:16 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!cuci.nl!usenet
From: Peter_Janssen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: discone Skipmaster Royal 1300
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 21:12:06 +0200
Organization: Cubic Circle
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I have just bought and installed a discone-antenna: the Skipmaster Royal 1300
(25 to 1300 Mhz, the low frequencies by the extra element on top of the
discone).
I saw this antenna first in a folder of Uniden Bearcat.

Although I now can recieve very remote and weak stations/transmitters there
is a lot of noise and radiostations in the background on any frequency but
particular around 30 Mhz.

Has anyone the same experience with the Skipmaster-antenna or is this typical
for any discone-antenna?
What can be done the solve this problem?

I use a Yupiteru MTV7100-scanner. The antenna is installed on the attic of my
house (indoors) at app. 10 meters above the earth-surface. It is "fed" by a
coax of good quality (Aircom Plus 50 Ohm) app. 5 meters long.

Peter Janssen


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:17 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.cdsnet.net!news.magicnet.net!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Dave Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HF Verticals: interaction with metal fencing?
Date: 3 Aug 96 22:36:56 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Hi all,
I need to construct a fence around the perimeter of my backyard
which measures about 150 feet by 100 feet.  Right in the middle of
this area is a Butternut HF6V HF vertical antenna with 50 buried
radials..  My question is: should I go for a wooden cedar fence, or,
a fence made of wood posts, but with steel mesh all around?

(We need to keep the 1-year old triplets IN, but I still want the
RF to get OUT.).  The all wood fence would be pretty invisible to RF,
but if we need to choose the metal fence (at nearest it would be 50 feet
from the HF6V) perhaps grounding it to the radial system at several points
would actually be beneficial???  Or is this something to avoid at all costs?
(Yup, I know it is steel so not the greatest conductor of RF...)

If anyone has ideas on this or experience with fencing and radial systems,
please post a comment or reply to me directly at [e-mail].

Many many thanks!!!!
73, Dave Palmer, N6KL/0, Boulder Colorado



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:19 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment HF antennas
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 23:09:19 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4u0utn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftc-74.ppp.frii.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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James W. Lytle wrote:
>
> I am in a slight delima.  I live in an apartment on the ground floor, and
> have no way of mounting anything on the outside of the building.  Does
> anyone have any ideas on antennas that might stand half a chance of
> working at least some of the HF bands?
>
> Thanks to anyone and everyone who can help.
>
> Jay Lytle, KB5VDH
> [e-mail]

Jay,

You definitely are at a serious disadvantage. I don't have much personal
experience with this problem, but I'll offer some thoughts that came to
mind when I read your posting. Maybe those thoughts will stimulate some
alternative ideas of your own.

I did stay in a ground level motel for about a month while house hunting
in 1968. I ran a wire from the bedroom through the bathroom window and
attached the other end to a small tree. I used a simple antenna tuner
between the wire and my TR-4A. Results on 75M left alot to be desired,
but I was operational.

In the mid-fifties in the CA Bay Area I ran a horizontal helix of wire
across a spacious room on the second level. My 45 CW transmitter had a Pi
network that would match the wire. The antenna was very much like the
Slinky antenna. On 80 M I had an S9 signal in Cutbank, MT.

Several years ago I had a nice QSO with a Ham in Panama on 15 M who was
using a Slinky antenna in his apartment.

I expect that all of the following ideas will require an antenna tuner.
Keep in mind that any end fed antenna that is current fed will need a
good ground.

1. Move to an upper level apartment.
2. See if the landlord will allow you to run a wire or feedline on the
outside of the building to the roof where you can string some wire.
(If the wire is very small, say #30, you can probably run it without
anyone knowing the difference.)
3. Try the Slinky type antenna.
4. Try a horizontal loop running along the corners of your room's walls
and ceiling. Use twinlead for the feedline and a balanced tuner.

Good luck,
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:20 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.digex.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsbuffer.myriad.net!news.myriad.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Tips on passing the 20-WPM code test..
Date: 4 Aug 1996 06:35:01 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4u1gal$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup571.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <[e-mail]>, Jas Carter <[e-mail]> writes:
>My name is Jimmy and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on passing
>the 20-WPM test. I appriciate all responses, thankyou!!
>
>73 de KE6QFN                   --... ...--    -.. .
>                                       -.- . -.... --.- -.
>
>
>
>--
>                     ~***~
>                     ( o o )
>----------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.----------------
>       KE6QFN    The Carter's    KE6QFO
>               [e-mail]
>       http://home.earthlink.net/~jecarter/
>-------------------------------------------------

Sure Jim!

   The fastest surest way to work your way up the CW speed game is
to simply get on the air and USE it!

For the most part, consider all the computer programs, all the tape courses
and whatnot as just aides to the real thing.  They help, but there is no way
to substitute all that for talking to somebody over the air.

There are plenty of places on the HF bands to build speed.  If you are a novic
e
and building for 13, the novice band is fine.  If you are a general and buildi
ng
as I think you must be, for extra, spin the dial around until you hear somethi
ng
you think you might like to copy then....

      forget all about a pencil and paper.

       Just LISTEN, don't work at it.

Learn to just dabble at it like it was just another radio program, just anothe
r
conversation, even at 5-13-15 WPM.   When you get to where you are
starting to hear sort of a conversation taking place in your own noodle, and
are NOT using a pencil and paper to write the stuff down,

     half your battle is over.

Then, resist the temptation to pick up the pencil again.  Try sending too!

You will find that sending is "arm wrenching" at first, but that's emotional!

In a few weeks of constant play at this - you'll be there.

I've seen people at 13 upgrade above 20 in one field day weekend!

I've seen a novice that never had a qso start in field day and go from
2 QSO's per hour in the novice bacn on 40 CW to 25 QSO's per hour
in two hours flat just last field day...

Mike W5WQN




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.fibr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: 4 Aug 1996 18:43:43 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4u2r0v$[e-mail]>
References: <4s0h7j$[e-mail]>     <4t6mc6$[e-mail]> <4tjdqq$[e-mail]>   <4tmrva$[e-mail]> <Q3YqRCAn20$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4trtqt$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:
 >If you truly believe a
 >transmitting antenna (radiator) needs to be resonant for
 >effectiveness ....perhaps.... you should discuss this
 >subject with some of the real antenna experts in the
 >group?        Jesse (W6KKT)

Hi Jesse, that's a pretty naughty thing to do - "Petitio
Principii" if I remember my logic correctly. I didn't
argue with Steve. I merely expanded on what he said.
I said an antenna *system* needs to be resonant even if the
antenna is a non-resonant length. Everyone knows that I
champion non-resonant length antennas every chance I get.

On these newsgroups, I hardly ever use the word "you" to
mean singular/personal. My use of the word "you" is
invariably plural/impersonal. Perhaps that is the source
of your confusion. If you truly engage in "Petitio
Principii", perhaps you should study logic. :-)

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:22 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet
From: "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tuners
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 20:22:52 -0500
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4u2i92$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: canberra-16.slip.uiuc.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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BillV21572 wrote:
>
> Hey Guys -
>
> Isn't there a marked loss of efficiency using a tuner and a non-resonant
> dipole, or off-center fed design?  Isn't the tuner just "fooling" the
> transmitter into loading up into a faux 50 ohm antenna?

I agree that the answer is no and no. You can have more or less efficiency
depending upon which tuner configuration and how it is adjusted. According to
some writing by George Grammar (7th ed of ARRL Antenna Book), the highest
efficiency is automatically obtained by the use of a simple el network.

Chuck, KE9UW



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:23 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news1.inlink.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Enrico Falconelli)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: http://www.msoft.it/noaa95/
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:34:14 GMT
Organization: [e-mail]
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4u3bqn$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mod10.msoft.it
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

http://www.msoft.it/noaa95/

                        NOAA95 - HRPT program

Abstract: In this page you will find some info to build by yourself a
low cost ground station to receive HRPT images. All the software and
hardware are homemade by Roberto Ferrari and Enrico Falconelli and are
not intended for commercial purposes but for personal use only.

best regards! Enrico. <[e-mail]>.



From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:24 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!news.ner.bbnplanet.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou.com!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: HF Verticals: interaction with metal fencing?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 01:13:06 GMT
Lines: 15

Of course the metal fence will effect the radiation pattern. Considering
that your vertical has a very low take off angle, 50ft away is hardly
enough to avoid negative effects. Don't pay any attention to testimonies
like " I have a fence and still work dx".

Fact is, unless you have means to measure the before and after results,
you will never know what happened. If you put up the fence, you will
continue working stations as before and never really be able to tell if
you lost 5db.

Since this is a concern, I would put up a wooden fence and forget using
any metal otherwise, after reading this, you will never sleep. 73

--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:25 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!cuci.nl!usenet
From: Peter_Janssen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: discone Skipmaster Royal 1300
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 02:20:00 +0200
Organization: Cubic Circle
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d32.din.cuci.nl
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I)

The strange thing is that every book about scanners says a discone is the
ideal antenna for scanning! Also the antenna was advertised in a folder about
Uniden Bearcat-scanners. The antenna should be perfect for one of their
models (the one with the freq.-range 25-1300 Mhz).

Anyway I'am going to try to solve the problem by building a switchable
attenuator and a kind of "preselector" with band-pass-filters for the bands
I'am interested in.

Do you know any other solution and/or do you have any tips for these
building-projects?

WKR     Peter Janssen


From [e-mail] Mon Aug 05 11:37:25 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.net66.com!jolt.pagesat.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!news.enteract.com!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!usenet
From: Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Butternut HF5B wisdom
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 13:28:45 -0700
Organization: Texas Instruments Asia, Taiwan ROC
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4t0a61$[e-mail]> <4t52op$[e-mail]> <4te7di$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: na01872244.taiwan.ti.com
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I would concurr with W7XA...the HB9CV 2 ele quad will outperform
a butternut HF5B.   Had a '5B and it was basically no better than
a rotary dipole...that is, front to back was lousy, forward gain
was not so good on 20 or 17 and just slightly better than a dp on
15.

I'd only use a 2 ele trap yagi if the 2 ele quad is not an
option due to high winds.  The performance of the quad will
surpass the 2 ele trap yagi.

73, Joe
----------------------------------------------------------
Amateur Radio:  BV/N0IAT   Taipei TAIWAN Republic of China

ex.  7J1AOF (Japan)  YU3/N0IAT (Slovenia)  KA0ZDH (Novice)
Licensed Radio Amateur since 1986.  Comments are mine only.
----------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:33 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 6 Aug 96 00:14:41 GMT
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Field Rotation

The H and E fields come off of a wire antenna at right angles to each other.
If the wire is rotated by 90 degrees, do the H an
d E fields rotate 90 degrees also?  So, with say, half of the radiator is stra
ight(0 reference), and the rest is twisted, what
effect does this have on the field patterns?  A more dramatic example would be
 a dual or triple wire antenna(bird cage) which i
s for extra capacitance.  If it were twisted midway, the effect on the field p
attern, if any, would be much more noticable than
 on a single wire conductor.  I don't remember reading anything referencing th
e field pattern rotation, except possibly the hel
ix types.



Tom Stone, [e-mail]

.



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Pat Barthelow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna Relay Isolation Problem
Date: 9 Aug 96 15:28:45 GMT
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I would like to build an antenna switching matrix at a newly
developed contest station (a converted Army MARS station at
old Ft. Ord.).  It should be able to switch any of 8 antennas to
any of 8 "ports"  each of which would be assigned to an
operating position.  I will use a computer to operate the relay
switchbox, using a point, drag and click interface in Windows.
Just click on the 20 meter monobander, and "drag" it to
operating position #1.  You get the idea.
          My concern is the relay matrix will be expensive, unless I
use some open frame relays available from Nebraska Radio
Sales, who have RF relays (NOT coaxial) at a reasonable price.
If I use open frame relays, then my concern is how to wire the
matrix and achieve reasonable RF isolation between the many
contacts of the relays?  The system has to handle 1500 watts,
2 through  30 MHz.

Any ideas?

de Pat, AA6EG
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dan Richardson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tuners
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 02:22:25 GMT
Organization: LPS Systems
Lines: 19
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[e-mail] (BillV21572) wrote:

>Hey Guys -

>Isn't there a marked loss of efficiency using a tuner and a non-resonant
>dipole, or off-center fed design?  Isn't the tuner just "fooling" the
>transmitter into loading up into a faux 50 ohm antenna?

>73 de Bill


>Bill Vanstralen  KA9HLN  St. Paul, MN  [phone]  [e-mail]

What is even more amazing is how it "fools" the other station in
believing my signal is better   :-) .

Danny, K6MHE




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:36 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tuners
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 23:30:57 +0100
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dave eckhardt wrote:
>I might point out that ALL solid state and tube "finals" have an
>impedance matching network in them.  These serve the SAME function as the
>antenna tuner, except they match the device impedance (resistance AND
>reactance) to a purely resistive 50-ohm "load".

No, they don't. They transform a 50-ohm (or other) load to present the
output device with the impedance it needs to work into.

The network is exactly the same. The concept is entirely different.

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:37 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna tuners
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 05:55:12 -0700
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Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
>
> No, they don't. They transform a 50-ohm (or other) load to present the
> output device with the impedance it needs to work into.
>
> The network is exactly the same. The concept is entirely different.
>

Excellent, Ian.

Bill


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:38 1996
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From: Peter_Janssen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: antennas from program HAMCALC, Murphy VE3ERP
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 00:21:09 +0200
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I'am thinking of building a antenna as described in the program HAMCALC
(shareware) from Murphy, VE3ERP.
I want to make a choice between the Short Inductive Loaded Dipole for
Restricted Space and the trap-dipole (multi-band) (as you can guess space is
my main problem).
Murphy says both antennas can be fed by a 50 Ohm coax; but how does the
design then handles the probem of connecting a balanced antenna to a
unbalanced feed-line? So should I use a balun for these antennas?
Please advise.
Yhanks,  Peter Janssen


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (BOB ROACH)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment HF antennas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 01:29:00 -0500
Distribution: world
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JWL>-I am in a slight delima.  I live in an apartment on the ground floor, and
   >-have no way of mounting anything on the outside of the building.  Does
   >-anyone have any ideas on antennas that might stand half a chance of
   >-working at least some of the HF bands?

JWL>-Thanks to anyone and everyone who can help.

Hello,

Get patriotic.  Fly a flag out the front window and load up the
flagstaff with a tuner.  I have not had to "hide" an atenna yet so I
can't give you any tried and true advice but most antenna books and the
Handbook show some stealth type antennas.

73 de KE4QOK
Bob

 * SLMR 2.1a * I left my tart in Aunt Fran's Crisco.


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:40 1996
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From: dave eckhardt <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment HF antennas
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 14:41:44 -0700
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To: Bill Turner <[e-mail]>
CC: [e-mail]

Bill Turner wrote:
>
> [e-mail] (James W. Lytle) wrote:
>
> >I am in a slight delima.  I live in an apartment on the ground floor, and
> >have no way of mounting anything on the outside of the building.  Does
> >anyone have any ideas on antennas that might stand half a chance of
> >working at least some of the HF bands?
> >
> >Thanks to anyone and everyone who can help.
> >
> >Jay Lytle, KB5VDH
> >[e-mail]
> ---------------------------------------------
> Try making a loop antenna that runs all around the ceiling, right in the
> corner where the wall and ceiling meet.  Make it as large as possible by
> running it around as many rooms as possible, but try to keep it roughly a
> square.  Use insulated wire which matches the color of the walls and hold it
> up with thumbtacks.  With a little care it will be nearly invisible.  Feed i
t
> with open-wire line and a balanced antenna tuner.  I had one with about 80
> feet of wire and it worked quite well on all bands from 80 through 10.
>
> Keep the power down to 50-100 watts and you probably won't have any TVI or
> phone interference.  Maybe.
>
> 73, Bill W7LZP
> [e-mail]


Another antenna I have used with some success is the small capacitively
tuned magnetic "dipole".  There was quite a good article in QST a couple
of years ago.  Its basically a loop of copper pipe about 4-feet in
diameter tuned with a variable capacitor between open ends.  Its fed with
another loop at and connected to the base of the large with a smaller
loop about 15-20 inches in diameter.  The antenna structure is very
high-Q, and, therefore, narrow band, but does work well for a compromised
space.  Oh, my rough dimensions are for nominally 40, 30, and 20 meters.
 It quits about 5 MHz on the low end and about 16 MHz on the top end.
Good luck:

Dave Eckhardt - W6LEV

[e-mail]              home
[e-mail]            work
[e-mail]           secondary home


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ray Peres)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner
Subject: Austin Spectra & Ferret info needed
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:26:16 -0400
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
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Seeking feedback from anyone who has used an Austin Spectra
(base) or Ferret Antenna for scanning. I've had trouble with the
Spectra & was wondering about others experience w/Austin
products.


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:42 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: B & W bwd 1.8 - 30  diplole
Date: 7 Aug 1996 04:38:52 -0400
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>I have had a B & W folded dipole up for the last couple of months.
>I have been very pleased with it's performance. I have found it to be
great!...  on all >bands!
>
>I have worked many states on 40M...
>worked must of South America on 10M.  The antenna even resonates
>well on 6M... I worked into VE2 land this past weekend using it on 6M.

There have been efficiency analysis' done on this type of antenna, and the
efficiency varies wildly with frequency. Jack Belrose did some work with
this type of antenna for the CRC, and has published the results. Maybe
someone else can put their finger on the exact data, I think it was
published in a NVIR article Jack wrote.

In any even, Lorain Electronics used the B&W antenna as an emergency
antenna. It was well known that performance was pretty poor on many
frequencies, and acceptable on others.

On some bands the bulk of the transmitter power is applied to the resistor
and efficiency is very poor. It's better than no antenna at all on these
bands, but far below what a resonant dipole or tuned open wire line system
would do. The poorest bands are those where the antenna is an even
multiple of a half wave long and bands where the antenna is much shorter
than a half wavelength.

On other bands only a small amount of power is dissipated in the resistor
and efficiency is reasonable (those are also the bands where the SWR would
be good without the resistor). These are the bands where the antenna is an
odd multiple of 1/2 wl long. On these bands the resistor is connected
across a low impedance portion of the antenna.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:44 1996
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Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best Mobile HF/MF Antenna
From: [e-mail] (Randal Olds)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 22:18:00 -0640
Organization: Channel 1(R) 617-864-0100 Info
Lines: 21


RO>hello all,

RO>looking for some reports on the best mobile antenna setup to use with my
RO>ICOM IC 706.  I am running it in a Toyota Pickup, does anyone have any
RO>experiences with mobile antenna...would enjoy any comments, both good and
RO>bad.

RO>thanks in advance....73 Rob n4yhd


The Bug catcher puts out the biggest signal with the screwdriver
antenna coming in 2nd. Bug catcher only works on one band at a time.
The screwdriver antenna covers 10-80m from drivers seat..
The screwdriver antenna is heavier, harder to install, and to support.
You could also use a spider antenna, or one like it to operate three or
more bands at a time, limited to the bandwidth of each load.

KD8NV
---
 * SLMR 2.1 * Screwdriver Antenna = Big Signal


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:45 1996
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From: "James C. Marciniak" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Mobile HF/MF Antenna
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:30:48 -0300
Organization: Together Networks
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Randal Olds wrote:
>
> RO>looking for some reports on the best mobile antenna setup to use with my
> RO>ICOM IC 706.  I am running it in a Toyota Pickup, does anyone have any
> RO>experiences with mobile antenna...would enjoy any comments, both good and
> RO>bad.
> I use a High Sierra "screwdriver" antenna on my '91 Explorer.

It is all-band, I control the tuning on all bands from the driver's seat, SWR
is below 2:1 across
the board, and it even works well on MARS frequencies.

Installation took all of about an hour. I used a ball mount (WITHOUT the sprin
g - it just causes
trouble as it ages), and a plastic "V" block used in electrical construction -
 the "V" block is
installed on the truck body about 12" above the ball - the base of the High Si
erra attaches to
the ball, and is held upright and supported by the "V" block, with a hose clam
p around it for
added strength.

Because the base of the antenna mounts on a conical brass stud, removing the a
ntenna is a 30
second job - just loosen the hose clamp, and lift up on the antenna base - off
 it comes! adding a
quick-connect for the 7' whip which makes up the upper half of the screwdriver
 antenna assures
that I can easily stow the whole thing inside the truck when I'm in town, and
don't want to
attract attention while I'm away from the truck.

Best of all, the antenna seems to do really well - I get pretty fair reports w
hile running
mobile, and no complaints. Members of my MARS group were convinced I was using
 a linear for
quite awhile, but I run a TS-430S barefoot from the truck. I should mention mo
st of my MARS
group is located in Maine - I'm in Vermont. I'd reccomend a screwdriver antenn
a - they work well.

73, de N1RUI Jim


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:46 1996
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From: "Tom M. Morton" <"[e-mail]"@flash.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BURIED Antennae?
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 15:25:13 -0700
Organization: Flash-Net Internet Service Provider, 888-FLASHNET
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4uiqsr$[e-mail]>
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Gary Watts wrote:
>
> Jake,
>
> I thought 5KW WAS qrp at VLF !  :-)
>
> On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Jake Brodsky wrote:
>
> > Many years ago, I remember a talk given to the local ARC by some guy
> > who designed underwater VLF antennas.  You might get 80 meters to
> > work from a receiving perspective.  The signal will be very weak,
> > though.  It is likely you'll need a pre-amp.
> >
> > As far as transmitting goes... you'll be working against a serious
> > handicap.  The guy running VLF used 5 KW to get a useful signal.
> > QRP is out of the question.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
> > PP-ASEL-IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
> > Amateur Radio Station AB3A
> > "Beware of the massive impossible!"
> >
> >Buried antennas work like buried airplanes.

Tom  KB0AP


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:47 1996
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From: "Gary O. Lyons" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BURIED Antennae?
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 18:48:55 -0700
Organization: ARNet, Inc.
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Rick Miller wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I've read about VLF antennae which are housed in buried PVC conduit.
> They still work because the "effective ground" is well below the surface
> of the soil... or so I gather.
>
> Anyway, I'm wondering whether anyone has any experience with BURIED
> antennae.  Of course I don't expect they'd work for UHF...  ;-)
> but what about the 80-meter or 160-meter bands?
>
> Hoisting a permanent antenna into the air is out of the question in my
> neighborhood, but nobody would think twice if I were to install one of
> those "invisible fence" wires, never mind that I don't have a dog.
>
> I'm thinking of using outdoor extension-cord buried just under the sod
> as a 80/160-meter sky-loop to use with a QRP transceiver.  Can anyone
> tell me (from personal experience) if I'll be wasting my time?
>
> Rick Miller (kb9obn) <[e-mail]> http://www.execpc.com/~rdmiller

Rick:

The ARRL Antenna Compendium Volume 1 contains an article on subsurface
antennas (Subsurface Antennas and the Amateur, Richard Silberstein,
W0YPF, pp133-139).  Dick provides a little bit of theory, some examples,
and a brief bibliography.

On a personal note I've experimented with subsurface antennas (dipole and
loop) off and on since about 1980.  I've found them to be extremely
useful as a low noise receiving antenna for both 80 and 160.  I've also
used in as a transmitting antenna with several contacts between
Lynchburg, VA and northern New Jersey.

Over the last couple of years QST has several articles on the "snake"
antenna which was laid directly on the ground.  Part of the secret of
that antenna is getting the right length.  Otherwise, when terminated it
basically acts as a dummy load on receive.  You might want to look at
some back issues of QST for the original article and 2-3 followon
articles and notes.

Good luck,

Gary
NG0K


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:48 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com![e-mail]
From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Cellular Antenna Patent
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 09:26:50 -0700
Organization: Wheeeeee!
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ubkqv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dam-as3s52.erols.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)

Techy wrote:
>
> There is a company designing a cellphone antenna that reduces the
> hazardous radiation from cell phones. I curious on how this is
> achieved. the company is not giving out how it is done, so I was
> wondering if any of you antenna aficionados had a clue?
>
> check out their website to find out about the antenna.
> http://www.intercell.com

I don't have the foggiest clue as to how one can reduce RF radiation
from an antenna but still have it work just well.  My bullsh__ detector
is going balistic.

They claim that the antenna reduces radiation by 90% (here we go again
guys, remember the toriodal helical antenna?)  I figure that they've
made an antenna that has 10 dB less gain than a conventional cellular
antenna.

Yeah, cellular systems know how to operate with 10 dB less power: they
think you're a portable and they compensate.  If you think the antenna
is going to run on a portable... I have this really cool bridge in
downtown New York for sale...

73,
Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL-IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:49 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.WARWICK.NET!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: copperweld wire
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 20:07:23 GMT
Organization: Warwick Online
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: w265-30.warwick.net
X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [1.1]

Can anyone tell me where to find Copperweld steel wire or enameled copper wire
?
----
Harry (N2VTV)



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.winterlan.com!frii.com!usenet
From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: copperweld wire
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 20:23:12 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftc-58.ppp.frii.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me where to find Copperweld steel wire or enameled copper wi
re?
> ----
> Harry (N2VTV)

Most of the bigger Ham supply houses carry them, such as Texas Towers,
etc. I know that Amateur Electronic Supply carries them. You can contact
them at http://www.execpc.com or email to [e-mail] they also
have a BBS at 414-358-3472 and a toll free 1-800-558-0411.

No, I have no affiliation with AES.

Regards,
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:51 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
From: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Distance
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 09:41:45 GMT
Lines: 61
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16343 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23528 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31558

In article <[e-mail]> "Bill C." <[e-mail]> writes:
>A Guy named Moe wrote:
>> I am wondering what is the main factor in deturmaning the distance that
>> a signal my be sent quickly and with clear reception?
>
>The *main* factor is the receiver.

Beyond line of sight, the main factor is *propagation*. Antennas can
be important, and the receiver certainly is (but Marconi used a glass
tube full of iron filings to span the Atlantic). The modulation used
makes a difference, and transmitter power is the catchall factor. The
frequency chosen is also an important factor since it influences
all the other factors. The whole thing has to work as a system.

Signalling speed (baud) for terrestrial beyond line of sight paths
is determined primarily by multipath. Operating near the MUF (for
ionospheric paths) will reduce multipath, and coherent M-ary modulation
with proper coding can resist it. At VHF+, antenna directionality
and siting are the largest factors in controlling multipath. Good
modulation choices (such as SS) can resist its degradations.

For free space paths, SNR (and available bandwidth) dominate as
the factors controlling signalling speed. Coherent modulations
again help in resisting degradation by low SNR (incoherent OOK
is a poor choice, incoherent analog modulations a worse one).
A stronger transmitted signal directly affects channel SNR. A
good receiver can avoid excessively degrading channel SNR (both
through using low noise devices to avoid contributing to channel
noise and by using matched filtering to avoid passing out of channel
noise), but it can't improve channel SNR. A directional antenna can
effectively improve channel SNR over isotropic by restricting the
noise coming from other directions on channel from reaching the
receiver.

Assuming adequate techniques are used for each link in the chain,
for a given frequency, the order of importance probably goes like
this;

1) Propagation
2) Antennas
3) Modulation
4) Receiver
5) Transmitter

Propagation dominates, and is the largest loss factor and the
largest factor contributing to multipath. Antennas couple to the
propagation path and thus are key elements. The modulation chosen
determines how well the signal can resist the various impairments
caused by propagation. The receiver must avoid degrading channel
SNR as much as possible. And finally, enough transmitter power
must be used to overcome all the loss mechanisms. The amount of
transmitter power *necessary* is often surprisingly small, however.
With the correct choices of other factors, a few milliwatts can
easily span the globe.

Gary
--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | Due to provider problems
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | with previous uucp address
es
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | Email to [e-mail]
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:52 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]  (Jon Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Electrical Properties Handbook
Date: 8 Aug 1996 14:50:14 GMT
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4ucur6$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jon Schmidt)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip166-72-107-66.ct.us.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

Does anyone know of an in-print book which describes the electrical
properties (dielectric constant, dielectric strength, loss tangent,
conductivity) of modern commonly available (i.e. from a hardware
or grocery store).  Examples of questions this book would answer are:
What is the dielectric constant of a platic milk jug at 100MHz?
What is the dielectric constant of cardboard at 1MHz?
What is the dielectric constant of redwood at 500KHz?
What is the conductivity of various metallic spray paints at 1GHz.



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:56 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!csulb.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!unogate!newsfeed.intelenet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!usenet
From: Ken Bessler <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GAP TITAN; What to do?
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 23:16:46 -0500
Organization: Design Services Company
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4u2d6a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ict91.southwind.net
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To: W8JI Tom <[e-mail]>

W8JI Tom wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> (Peter Markham) writes:
>
> >
> >   Some time ago I posted my experience with a TITAN, which is still
> >being used as a SW broadcast rx antenna and a local 2m tx/rx antenna.
> >I consider this use a compromise waste of the antenna/tubing and wish
> >to use it for a vertical hf antenna, consistent with the advertising hype
> >and the spirit in which it was purchased. I understand, now, that hype
> >and spirit is wishful thinking. What to do with the wreckage of my
> >dreams?
>
> I've had the very same experience with a GAP as you have. Mine is lying in
> the weeds also.
>
> Eventually I plan on converting it to a base fed conventional vertical
> with traps or quarter wave decoupling stubs. Any vertical with even a
> modest ground system would be better than a non-ground vertical mounted
> close to earth..
>
> 73 Tom

Thanks to all of you guys for posting your experiences with these
antennas...I almost bought one!

Back to the dipole....KG0WX


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:56 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!swrinde!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (ve7gsf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: hamfest northern b.c.
Date: 10 Aug 1996 19:16:00 GMT
Organization: Cyberstore Systems Inc.
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4uin5g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.244.105.35
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.10

it is hamfest time in prince george british colunbia canada. . check out
our web page http://www.netbistro.con/~ve7duc/ hamfest will be held at
the world famous ve7 zzz contest site . welcome to all.



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:58 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help with G5RV
Date: 8 Aug 1996 14:10:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4ucsfv$[e-mail]>
References: <4ucq9o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 143.phoenix-1.az.dial-access.att.net
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[e-mail] (Bob Bursey) wrote:
>Can a SO-239 be attached to the
>end of ladder-line so I can feed it with 60 ft. of coax from my tuner?

Hi Bob, Yes, if you don't mind feedline radiation. There are
at least hundreds of such antennas in operation. However, the
most popular configuration has a 1:1 bead balun at the coax/
ladder-line junction.

>Or does the ladder-line have to come directly off the tuner?

Doesn't have to but eliminating the coax results in a more
efficient all-band antenna system. G5RV himself, said,
"...almost any length (of feedline) may be used from the
center of the antenna to the matching network (balanced)
output terminals. ... A convenient length of open-wire feeder
is 84ft." That's because with approximately 84ft of open-wire
feeder, one can feed the transmission line near a current maximum
on 40m and 20m-10m resulting in an easy match for the tuner.
The impedance for 75m and 30m is quite high with 84ft of feedline
and is nearer a voltage maximum. I solved the 75m matching problem
with a couple of series toroidal inductors in the feedline at the
SL-50 (Series Inductance resulting in 50 ohms) point.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:58 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (bob puharic)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: HF in Chevy Blazer
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:54:24 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4u8trk$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-11.enter.net
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23521 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31535

Im planning to mount a heathkit/yaesu knock off in my chevy blazer
('94) Antenna is a hustler with the resonators (it's the only antenna
ive got and im too cheap to buy another). Besides the obvious
suggestion of good grounding, any suggestions, caveats, warnings, etc?
Thanks much all.



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:44:59 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dbtech.net!usenet
From: "Brian S. McDaniel" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: how can I broadcast on FM radio?
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 11:51:59 -0500
Organization: WVTM-TV
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4u8h1e$[e-mail]> <4uaoqn$[e-mail]>
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Michael Colvin wrote:
>
> Become a DJ?

Work on your communications skills, first.

73 DE KC4LMD
WVTM-TV


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:05 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!cronkite.polaristel.net!news
From: "Chris Davis" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: how can I broadcast on FM radio?
Date: 9 Aug 1996 05:06:31 GMT
Organization: FISH Computing
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <01bb85b0$252d88a0$195c09ce@chris>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.9.92.25
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1132
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Robert,

It may sound fun (when I was in college, we tried to do the same thing, but
were unsuccessful, luckily.)  If you do succeed, you WILL most likely be
caught, unless you are in an area with almost no radio stations.  As an
assistant engineer at an FM station with several translators, we regularly
monitor the band with a spectrum analyzer and would most likely find a
'pirate' station within a few days of it's debut.  I'm sure you've read the
posts from others outlining the fines.

Radio is an appealing hobby.  I'm sure your intent is not to break the law.
 Why not go about it through the existing channels?  If your desire is to
communicate, try amateur radio, it's lots of fun!  If your goal is to get
your music 'on the air', seek out a local college or technical school radio
station.  I'm involved in both amateur radio and broadcast radio, a
rewarding hobby and career.  Good luck!

--
<><--------------------------------------------------------------<><
                 Chris Davis KB0WWP
                     [e-mail]
       Asst. Engineer KJLY - Christian Radio
                       Blue Earth, MN
<><--------------------------------------------------------------<><


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:06 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.net66.com!jolt.pagesat.net!ipac.net!news.netserv.com!news.clark.net!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!newsfeed.mc.ti.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jim Flanders)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: how to make 10m from CB?
Date: 7 Aug 1996 15:11:20 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments @ Lewisville
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4uabmo$[e-mail]>
References: <4tg32l$[e-mail]> <4tk681$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: shtip114.dseg.ti.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Ken:
  While travelling around the country, I have a mobile unit that
covers both CB and ten meters.  I use the same CB whip for both
bands. A variable capacitor is switched in series to the whip in
order to load on ten meters, and I can tune the capacitor for a
1:1 anywhere from 29.000 to 29.700.
Jim W0ooG/5 (except last week I was /1, /2, /8, and /9.
on 10 and 40 (using my highly modified DDRR))
In article <4tk681$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>[e-mail] (Ken McCoy) wrote:
>
>>Can one simply clip off a few inches from a base-loaded CB whip to
make it
>>work for 10m, or is there some returning of the matching coil
involved?
>>I'm thinking of the 3-4 foot whips.
>
>>Thanks for any info,
>
>>Ken
>>KF4BQF
>>[e-mail]
>I'm running a Mosely A511S 5/8 wave Ground Plane on 10, only shortened
>it about 8 inches by sliding the top element down inside the next and
>retightening the clamp.
>
>TTUL - 73+ de Gary - KG0ZP
>
>
>



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:07 1996
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From: "Stewart Baker" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ICOM IC-AT100 Automatic ATU
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 23:00:11 +0100 (BST)
Organization: At Home...
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dgt1-ptp9.nildram.co.uk
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--------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] using NETcetera 2.510 for Internet News

--------------------------------------------------

I have just purchased a second hand AT100 automatic ATU
as an add on to my TS180S.

It seems to work reasonably OK, but has some quirks.

I would be interested if anyone is using this model and what
their experiences are.

Also if there are any modifications.

Thanks




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:08 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!hamblin.math.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!news.celestar.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!usenet
From: Ken Bessler <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Is it my area?
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 18:09:44 -0500
Organization: Design Services Company
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ict101.southwind.net
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I recently moved from Las Vegas to Kansas. Since then, I have noticed that
all my radio equipment operating below 30 mhz is working much better. I know
the terrain is flatter but I'm talking about signal strenth at ranges below
30 miles here. Las Vegas is a bowl shaped valley about 30 miles in diameter.
Inside that bowl, it is very flat.

So what is it? The type of ground? Las Vegas is dry, rocky soil and Kansas is
very wet and dark soil. Can I assume this is the reason (ground losses) or
should I see a shrink? I'm just not used to seeing S7 signals base to base on
10 meters at a range of 14 miles (FM simplex). Maybe I should hit the books
again....

                                KG0WX


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: 5 Aug 1996 10:53:45 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 20
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4u51tp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
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In article <[e-mail]>, "William E. Sabin"
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>How about if we say that the antenna feedpoint must have a non-zero
>radiation resistance component that can receive power from a generator.
>
>Bill

Now that's a bit more understandable, especially since resonance implys a
frequency selective non-reactive load.

But didn't the question also include the description "efficient"?

How about "A dominant non-zero radiation resistance component coupled via
a low loss system and matched to the generator"?

How this is accomplished makes no difference at all...broadbanded, narrow
banded, tuned, or untuned. As long as the radiation resistance dominates
system losses and the generator is matched to the load.


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:11 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: 9 Aug 1996 12:04:45 -0400
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jesse
Touhey (W6KKT)) writes:

>I will gladly drive to Arizona
>and set up the test equipment for you and the Arizona "Mobileers",
>on the condition  that you set your sights higher (more in line with
>your capabilities)  I have fifty years of high power mobeling behind
>me.  At every "shootout" I learn something new.  Give us "Californians
>Mobileers" something to shoot at. :-)   Just promise  you won't
>strangle me with one of your non tuner, tuner line sections :-).  You
>have the Challange.
>Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT

Hey Jesse,

Why not bring the stuff to Texas?

1.) There are a lot of ten gallon hats there.
2.) There are a lot of mobiles.
3.) It is more centrally located.
4.) We could estabish a east coast reference signal, and start some tests
out here.
5.) We could eventually have the best from the east meat the best from the
west..

I'll meet you halfway. I'm itchin' to get in a shootout....

Tom W8JI


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 02:59:08 GMT
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On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 09:18:15 -0700, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>Jesse Touhey (W6KKT) wrote:
>> Comments about Visalia will follow later.
>> Respectfully....., Jesse, W6KKT
>
>Hi Jesse, a kind soul sent me the Visalia shootout results. Here's what
>I was talking about.
>
>     61.3dB   Bugcatcher
>
>    *59.8dB*  My Extended 40m hamstick with SGC autotuner
>
>     57.7dB   Screwdriver, 102" whip
>
>     55.3dB   Screwdriver, 67" whip
>
>So I was better than a couple of screwdriver tests and 1.5dB (1/4 'S' unit)
>below a bugcatcher. I don't think that's performing "poorly". If you think
>so then we have a different definition of the word "poorly".
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

Hi Cecil, here are the facts: In previous threads you state  the
antenna you competed with was a "40m hamstick" (inaccurate). Within
this header you now call it a "extended 40m hamstick" (better).  Why
do you include the whip heights of the other antennas and neglict to
state the whip height you were using (108") ?  Oversight?  In
actuality, with the exception of WA6QJXs antenna (fs 66.1), that
"extended 40m hamstick" was the longest antenna tested.  You had to
bend it over forming a "top hat" to conform to the 13.5' height limit.
The "hamstick" had a reading of 59.8, which was -2.8db from WA6JPRs
10.5' bugcatcher (fs 62.6) and -3.7db compared to K6SDQs (fs 63.5)
7.5'  above coil cap hat antenna. The "hamstick" placed fifth from the
bottom of all antennas tested.  Looking at it another way, one could
say "it did beat the four worst antennas".  For the length of that
antenna (13.6') , properly designed, it could have had more gain than
all the non capacity hat antennas tested.
A bumper mounted, base loaded antenna using a low "Q" 40m hamstick
coil, in my opinion, is poor design.  For the second longest antenna
tested to place fifth from the bottom in signal strength, in my book,
has done poorly.  Yes!  -6.3db from WA6QJX and -2.8db to WA6JPRs
shorter "bugcatcher" again, in my opinion, is a poor showing.  Maybe
-1.5db dosn't mean much to you, but in mobile operation where every
watt of effective radiated power (ERP) takes "blood sweat and tears"
to come by, it means a great deal to me.
For your antenna to have been effective all one would have had to do
is short out the "hamstick" with a wire, insert low loss (Hi-"Q") coil
between the top of the hamstick and whip.......instant +3db
(equivilent to doubling power). Very simple, if one knows what to do.
73,  Jesse , W6KKT


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (William J. Skellenger)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: LORAN -- 10 MHz ?
Date: 10 Aug 1996 02:04:00 -0400
Organization: Michigan Technological University
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Hey gang:

I just got a used LORAN reciever, but it has no documentation and worst
of all, no antenna.  Upon disassembly I determined which leads in the
4-pin power connector were actually power leads, so I've been able to
get the display to come on.  It appears as though it's "searching" for
it's location, although I'm not sure if LORAN needs calibration or not.

Anyway, the real question is:  I think this thing operates by recieving
10 MHz signals from towers.  If so, (I'll look into it a little more
tonight) what antenna (design-wise) would work best for this
application?

I won't be using this unit for anythign serious, probably just something
to play with.  Got it REAL cheap.

Looking forward to some feedback.  Thanks in advance!

--Bill

--
                      Bill Skellenger      [e-mail]
                        Michigan Technological University
                         http://www.me.mtu.edu/~wjskelle


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:16 1996
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From: Mike Tourville <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need antenna solution for classic Vette
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 12:32:56 -0400
Organization: Omniview, Inc.
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I'm looking for an antenna solution for a 1969 Vette. Of course I don't
want to drill any holes and an on the glass mount won't work on the rag
top.

I've been thinking about putting an antenna in the factory hole for the
am-fm antenna. I can put some aluminum tape on the inside of the body
panel for a ground plane. But then the problem is I don't have an
antenna for the stereo.
Have anyone seen any duplexers that would let me use one antenna for the
ham bands and the bradcast stuff as well? If they made a low pass
section that cuts off at 110mhz and a high pass at about 140mhz, it
would be perfect.

Does anyone have any good ideas?

Thanks,
Dan Newby
WD4LUR
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:20 1996
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From: Peter Shintani <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: need explaination of traveling wave antennas(Sommer)
Date: 6 Aug 1996 23:02:34 GMT
Organization: Sony Japan
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Hi:
        I am not having much luck with my R7 so I am thinking of re-errecting it
a little higher. At the same time I found the Sommer antenna home page, and
became interested in the  folded traveling wave type of terminated
antenna. Unfortunately, I don't  know a hoot about terminated traveling
wave antennas. Could anyone shed some light and edify me?
        Particularly, if one wanted to operate on 10~40 m and could errect two
15 foot high poles placed about 25feet apart with a wire running up one
pole across to the other pole and then back down to a terminating resistor
what sort of radiation pattern could I expect? I understand that
I would have to feed the one side with a 1:4  unun and terminate
the far side in about 800~1200 ohms.

If this antenna layout creates  a directional pattern, if the antenna is folde
d
in a fashion similar to the Sommer vertical, what sort of radiation
pattern could I expect. What should the spacing between the antenna pole
the wire be ?

Any opinions are gladly welcome

Peter




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (jerry shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: need paperwork for a HY-GAIN 10  meter quad antenna
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:15:58 GMT
Organization: CampusMCI
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4uf6n4$[e-mail]>
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I traded for a ten meter quad the guy didn't have the papers on the
antenna and wasn't sure of the brand but he thinks it is a hy-gain.
so if anybody has any info on this antenna I sure could use some help.
the antenna is a 2 element quad with 6inch plastic spreader for the
reflector the antenna is new but has been stored for a while have no
box or paper work not even sure of the brand 73's



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:22 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need shematic on a slimJim antenna for 2M
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 09:23:36 GMT
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 PSE send me email if you know dimenson for a Slim Jim Antenna for
144 Mhz

[e-mail]
SM4WDQ



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Doug)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: Non-conductive Rod Source
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 04:06:21 GMT
Organization: Doug's Personal Defense Products
Lines: 19
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23535 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16347

I've seen posts for plastic rods for booms, etc. Here is a
good source I found:

United States Plastic Corp.
1390 Neubrecht Road
Lima OH 45801

1-800-537-9724 - Voice
1-419-228-5034 - FAX

They offer plastic, acrylic, polycarbonate, PVC, CPVC,
polyethylene, polypropylene, UHMW?, teflon, delrin, nylon,
polystyrene, polyurethane, phenolic, Fibergrate DynaForm,
etc., all sizes. Enough to make any homebrewer's heart glad!
;-)

Doug
KC8CGX



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tapio Sokura)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Optimum stacking distance with yagis?
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 16:41:32 GMT
Organization: Clinet, Espoo, Finland.
Lines: 15
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We are putting back up a pair of 70cm and 2m antennas stacked
vertically at our club after doing some maintenance. I was wondering
what stacking distance would be a good compromise between maximum gain
and good radiation pattern? The yagis are 2x21 el for 70cm (Tonna) and
2x11 elements for 2m (homemade) and are the only ones in the mast.

Please answer/copy your message via email, I don't read this group too
often and if possible, distances in meters.

    73's de Tapio

---
Tapio Sokura <> [e-mail] <> AX.25: [e-mail]
PGP public key available on public keyservers.
Fingerprint: 5E 88 D6 BA FC 23 A2 E3  BD 8D D9 1F EB B8 3E 00


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:25 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Phasing Coils for 2m/440 antennas
Date: 9 Aug 1996 17:41:41 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Corvallis Site
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Christopher E. Brown ([e-mail]) wrote:

:         Also info on the pros/cons of using phasing coils or shorted stub
: delays.  Does the better element spacing of the coil offset the radation
: from the coil, or is a shorted stub (at 90deg to the elements) better.
: How much does the position of the stub (at 90deg or folded against the
: element) effect antenna pattern?

Ronold King (King, Mimno and Wing, "Transmission Lines, Antennas and
Waveguides) has some comments about essentially this topic.  He
compares a quarter wave shorted stub of open-wire line at 90 degrees to
the axis of the radiating elements to a quarter wave shorted stub of
coaxial line which is coaxial to the radiating elements:  in
other words, the center section of a 3-element collinear is made of
coaxial cable, shorted an electrical 1/4 wave back from the ends, and
the center conductor is extended to become the outer radiating
element.  Anyway, he notes that the perpendicular stub couples to the
antenna field and as a result does a _better_ job of forcing
in-phase currents on all the elements.  I've verified this with an
EZNEC simulation.  I _believe_ the same would be true of a comparison
of a self-resonant phasing coil and a perpendicular shorted quarter-
wave stub.

--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Zachary E. Beese)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Random Wire antenna question
Date: 5 Aug 96 20:27:49 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: oper.cc.iastate.edu
Keywords: Random Wire

Hello, I just upgraded from Tech no-code to General a few weeks ago and
purchased a Yaesu FT-840.  I live in a duplex and have the rig set up in
the basement.  Since I don't have much room for antennas, the random
wire solution seemed like a fairly inexpensive and easy way to get an
antenna up, and working on most HF bands.

I have an MFJ antenna tuner with outputs for coax feed, balanced feed,
or a wire antenna.  I want to keep RF out of my basement, so I attached
coax to the antenna tuner, and fed a copper wire that runs between some
trees outside (I soldered the copper wire to the center pin of the
coax).

I couldn't tune the antenna to get a low SWR, I kept getting 2-3:1.  But
when I connected the coax feed's center pin to the antenna tuner's 'wire'
jack, I was able to tune the antenna to a nice 1.2-1.3:1 SWR on most
bands.

I am wondering if there is a way to connect the coax feed line to the
antenna tuner's *coax* output instead of the wire output?  It seems I'm
defeating the purpose of using coax to feed the wire, when using the
'wire' jack and not the 'coax' jack.

I would just run the whole wire down to the tuner and connect to the
'wire' jack, but that wouldn't help to keep RF out of my
basement...

Anyone have an suggestions or ideas on how to feed a random wire with
coax using the antenna tuner?


Thanks and 73,

Zach Beese
[e-mail]

--
---------------------------------------------------------
Zach Beese                      Operations Staff
1320 Gateway, Apt. #611         Durham Computation Center
Ames, IA  50014                 Iowa State University
*********************************************************
email: [e-mail]
phone: [phone] (home)  or  [phone] (work)
URL:   http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zachb
radio: KB0PIL
---------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:27 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (John Seboldt)
Subject: Re: Random Wire antenna question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Random Wire
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:35:38 GMT
Lines: 47
Sender: [e-mail]

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna you write:

>I have an MFJ antenna tuner with outputs for coax feed, balanced feed,
>or a wire antenna.  I want to keep RF out of my basement, so I attached
>coax to the antenna tuner, and fed a copper wire that runs between some
>trees outside (I soldered the copper wire to the center pin of the
>coax).

>I couldn't tune the antenna to get a low SWR, I kept getting 2-3:1.  But
>when I connected the coax feed's center pin to the antenna tuner's 'wire'
>jack, I was able to tune the antenna to a nice 1.2-1.3:1 SWR on most
>bands.

Depending on the length of the coax and the wire, you get a very
"unknown" situation, so I'm not surprised things don't work. (Since
you're not very specific about lengths and bands, we can't get into the
nitty-gritty details of why).

You simply should not use coax in this manner.  If used as a transmission
line (in the "coax" jack with shield grounded), you are likely running
the coax outside of its characteristic (50-ohm?) impedance.  Coax gets
real lossy when not properly matched -- much, much more than, say, the
classic balanced open-wire or ladder feedline.

Do you have problems with "RF in the shack" when just hooking the center
pin to the "wire" jack?  If not, don't worry about it!  Your concern to
keep it out may not be particularly justified.  I did this for a while,
and only found that the higher bands caused problems.  And these problems
could be much reduced by using a 1/4 wave wire for the band in use,
attached to the tuner ground.  Or the MFJ "artificial ground" will help a
single wire length to function on several bands.

A ladder line to the outside, then a "random dipole" strung around your
yard, could be another solution if Rf problems are really pesky.  If your
tuner has a good balanced output, feedline radiation will be minimal.

>Anyone have an suggestions or ideas on how to feed a random wire with
>coax using the antenna tuner?

Yeah -- don't use the coax :-) Simple.

: John Seboldt \  Duke Ellington on CW:    It don't mean a thing
: [e-mail] | Ham: K0JD  \     If it ain't got that swing!
: Minneapolis, MN USA | Music Dir., \   Didah, didah, didah, didah,
:    Church of the Annunciation      \          ..........




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:28 1996
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From: John P Smith <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Random Wire antenna question
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 23:25:16 -0700
Organization: Monumental Network Systems
Lines: 59
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To: "Zachary E. Beese" <[e-mail]>

Zachary E. Beese wrote:
>
> Hello, I just upgraded from Tech no-code to General a few weeks ago and
> purchased a Yaesu FT-840.  I live in a duplex and have the rig set up in
> the basement.  Since I don't have much room for antennas, the random
> wire solution seemed like a fairly inexpensive and easy way to get an
> antenna up, and working on most HF bands.
>
> I have an MFJ antenna tuner with outputs for coax feed, balanced feed,
> or a wire antenna.  I want to keep RF out of my basement, so I attached
> coax to the antenna tuner, and fed a copper wire that runs between some
> trees outside (I soldered the copper wire to the center pin of the
> coax).
>
> I couldn't tune the antenna to get a low SWR, I kept getting 2-3:1.  But
> when I connected the coax feed's center pin to the antenna tuner's 'wire'
> jack, I was able to tune the antenna to a nice 1.2-1.3:1 SWR on most
> bands.
>
> I am wondering if there is a way to connect the coax feed line to the
> antenna tuner's *coax* output instead of the wire output?  It seems I'm
> defeating the purpose of using coax to feed the wire, when using the
> 'wire' jack and not the 'coax' jack.
>
> I would just run the whole wire down to the tuner and connect to the
> 'wire' jack, but that wouldn't help to keep RF out of my
> basement...
>
> Anyone have an suggestions or ideas on how to feed a random wire with
> coax using the antenna tuner?
>
> Thanks and 73,
>
> Zach Beese
> [e-mail]
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Zach Beese                      Operations Staff
> 1320 Gateway, Apt. #611         Durham Computation Center
> Ames, IA  50014                 Iowa State University
> *********************************************************
> email: [e-mail]
> phone: [phone] (home)  or  [phone] (work)
> URL:   http://www.public.iastate.edu/~zachb
> radio: KB0PIL
> ---------------------------------------------------------Hi Zach,
        I would look at the counterpoise solution.  Run the random wire
directly into the back of the tuner like you should; no coax.  Then I
would cut 1/4 wavelength pieces of wire for the bands I was interested in
operating and tie them all together at one end which is fastened to the
ground lug of the antenna tuner.  Now take the wires and run them out on
the ground or the floor of your basement as straight as you can; doesn't
have to be perfect, just don't put them in a loop.  This will give that
RF running around in your shack somewhere to dissipate and should cure a
lot of your problems.

73
John KI4RO


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:29 1996
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From: Brian Hemmis <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Tennadyne Log Periodics
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 21:05:40 -0400
Organization: Brian Hemmis Photography
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I'm ready to replace my aging TET 5el tribander w/ something that will
work well on 20-10 incl WARC bands-has anyone had any experience w/
Tennadyne products ? Interested in the 8 or 10 el one. Ease of
construction, quality,performance compared to other antennas are my main
concerns. Also any other brand suggestions would be welcome. 73 Brian
K3USC-Erie,PA 814-866-2585


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:30 1996
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From: Don Huff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Tips on passing the 20-WPM code test..
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 13:11:52 -0700
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Jas Carter wrote:
>
> My name is Jimmy and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on passing
> the 20-WPM test. I appriciate all responses, thankyou!!
>
> 73 de KE6QFN                    --... ...--    -.. .
>                                         -.- . -.... --.- -.
>
> --
>                       ~***~
>                      ( o o )
> ----------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.----------------
>         KE6QFN    The Carter's    KE6QFO
>                [e-mail]
>         http://home.earthlink.net/~jecarter/
> -------------------------------------------------


   I have been a CW op for over 41 years.  It is merely another
LANGUAGE. When you are proficient in CW, you are just listening to the
other fellow talking.  The means of hearing him are not even relevant at
that point.  In other words, the dits and dahs are totally transparent;
you are merely listening to what the other op has to say and decoding it
intuitively.  This is straight conversational CW ragchewing, and it
works so very well, in almost all conditions.  This is the reason for
its enduring popularity.  Using tapes or computers that output "pure" CW
with no QSB, QRN, etc; is folly if you ever intend learn its use as an
HF ragchewing medium, although it may get you to the point of passing a
CW test.  What is your goal?

   The FASTEST way to learn CW is to USE IT, every day, to converse with
other hams on the air.  When you are driving to work, mentally sound out
street signs, license plate numbers, whatever you can read, in Morse.
This way you can get used to the translation of letters into the morse
element combinations. When I first learned the code, using a buzzer and
a key (I had no receiver at first), when I finally obtained a receiver,
I was writing every word down on paper.  After about a week of this, I
realized that the writing part was completely redundant; I already heard
what the op was saying, and I was merely transcribing it!  At that
point, CW became, and remains to this day, just another language for me.

   When you are proficient at CW, it is not "work" to use it.  It is as
natural as listening to someone speak to you.  When  you are proficient
at CW, you don't make it hard by using a straight keys, or putting it on
a screen so that you have to read it all over again, etc.
(Direct to the brain is hard to beat!)  When you are proficient at CW,
you can copy it while listening to other things, just as you do when
using voice.  When you are proficient at CW, you can easily operate CW
mobile while driving, as I do.

   Most of the complaints I read here about CW are from hams who
obviously have not gotten to the "other language" point in their
proficiency, and therefore cannot comprehend how it can be anything but
"work" to use.

   Good luck.  CW is well worth the effort to learn it well.  It is an
acquired skill you can enjoy using for the rest of your life.

   Incidentally, contrary to much that I read, there are quite a few NEW
hams who are excellent CW ops.  I run into them regularly on the air.
Many have started with the Codeless Tech, got bored with VHF quickly,
and found, to their utter amazement, that CW is actually FUN.  They are
the lucky ones.

  73,
        Don, W6JL


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:31 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Undersized beam for 20m band
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 08:26:16 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 9
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Tormod Hals wrote:
> Does anybody have experience with a two or three element beam for the
> 20m band where element lengths are considerably less than half-wave but with
out
> traps, coils etc.?

Check out the X-beam (1993 ARRL Handbook). I helped a ham compare it to a
full-sized yagi and couldn't tell the difference.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:32 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Undersized beam for 20m band
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 23:48:04 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
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On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 08:26:16 -0700, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>Tormod Hals wrote:
>> Does anybody have experience with a two or three element beam for the
>> 20m band where element lengths are considerably less than half-wave but wit
hout
>> traps, coils etc.?
>
>Check out the X-beam (1993 ARRL Handbook). I helped a ham compare it to a
>full-sized yagi and couldn't tell the difference.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

Tormod, also check out the VK2ABQ 2el beam in Moxens antenna book.  It
exhibits about the maximum gain for a short 2 el beam.   Before you
buy or try, get someone to model them on the computer.....73,  Jesse
(W6KKT)


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:33 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Undersized beam for 20m band
Date: 8 Aug 1996 14:21:59 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4uct67$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:
>>On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 08:26:16 -0700, Cecil Moore
>><[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>Check out the X-beam (1993 ARRL Handbook). I helped a ham compare it to a
>>>full-sized yagi and couldn't tell the difference.

>The "X" beam should show around a -1db due to phase cancellation
>compared to a standard full size 2 el yagi.

One doesn't get something for nothing but the difference is neglible.
It's virtually impossible to see -1dB on an ordinary HF 'S' meter or
hear any difference at all during a skywave HF QSO.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:34 1996
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From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: va.general,uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,nc.general
Subject: Re: Updated Ham Pages
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 11:28:44 -0700
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 15
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Xref: news2.epix.net va.general:10022 uk.radio.amateur:15102 rec.radio.amateur.space:7375 rec.radio.amateur.misc:105762 rec.radio.amateur.dx:177 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23519 nc.general:3264

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I just uploaded my newest pages. Due to the length of just
> the single page I have split the page up. Check it out,
> and many thanks for the comments. Anyone like to add anything ?
> Comments direct please.
> 73 Kyle
>
> http://www.moonstar.com/~wa4pgm/

I'll go check it out!
kc6wfs
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860
--
Dave Booth


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Nils P. Pedersen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: VA3ARE
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:36:33 GMT
Organization: Scantech Research
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4uhs1k$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: halden116.telepost.no
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Does anybody know the email adress of  VA3ARE , Are Barstad? His last
known QTH was :  36 Beatty street, Parry sound,  Ontario Canada.
His wife is VE3TSZ.

They are good old friends of me, but we have lost contact. Telephone
number or current QTH would of course also be great.

Yes, I know this is not a missing persons group, but this article is
posted in differen amateur-radio groups for obvious reasons  :-)

Thank you for your cooperation and best 73  de LA7SL.

email me at  [e-mail].



From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:36 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Velocity Factor for RG-6/U ?
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 20:14:06 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ufk0c$[e-mail]> <4ugefh$[e-mail]>
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Brian Williams wrote:
>
> In article <4ufk0c$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
> >Does anybody know the velocity factor and
> >impedance for RG-6/U. I know that RG-6
> [ cut here]
> >73Æs Pat N0WCG
>
> Sorry Pat,
> I could not locate RG-6/U in the Belden wire and cable catalog.
> Maybe it's only made by other manufacturers??  If Belden does
> make it, you can ask for their technical support department.
>
> Their number is 1-800-BELDEN3
>                 1-800-2353363
> Good Luck
> Brian - N6ZAU

WA2ISE posted a complete list of transmission line characteristics on 31
July 1996. You could probably get a copy by using the excellent search
engine http://www.dejanews.com

To answer your question using the list, RG-6/U vf=.78

Regards,
W0MAY




From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:37 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Tatro)
Subject: Velocity Factor for RG-6/U ?
Message-ID: <4ufk0c$[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Storage Technology Corporation
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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:03:40 GMT
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Does anybody know the velocity factor and
impedance for RG-6/U. I know that RG-6
is 75 ohm with a VF of 75% but I have no
data on RG-6/U. If you have the maximum
operating voltage it would also be of help.

Thanks in advance.

73Æs Pat N0WCG


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:38 1996
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From: Peter_Janssen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: which swiches for switching atenna's, filters, etc?
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 02:35:46 +0200
Organization: Cubic Circle
Lines: 8
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I wonder which switches I should use to make a switch-box for antennas,
filters, etc for freq. up to 1300 Mhz.
I've heard about "coax-switches" but they "sound" expensive! (or not?)
Can I build coax-switches myself (how?) and/or can I use rather ordinary and
cheap switches; if yes which type should I get (slide-, toggle-, miniature,
etc.)?

Peter Janssen


From [e-mail] Sun Aug 11 05:45:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (GBohner)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTB: SGC Antenna Tunner and whip
Date: 8 Aug 1996 19:53:49 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 2
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Message-ID: <4udumd$[e-mail]>
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Please email me.
TNX, Guy. w6ljl. St. Petersburg, Fl


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:25 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: "Shootout" Ant Restrictions??
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:37:51 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 40
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn11.frazmtn.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

In the past their have been little if any antenna restrictions.
On 75m the antenna with the "mostest" ie; largest tophat
usually won. I understand, K5DUTs "shootouts" do not allow
the antenna system to extend over 1' from the vehicle (no more
than a side view mirror).  This of course eliminates many of the
large top hats.  However, Vans with the antenna mounted in the
center of the roof with large capacity hats are "legal" and have
won their "shootouts".  I'm not sure I agree with this.  It sure gives

the advantage to the Vans. Last year, at Visalia,  I tried something
new in this area.  Division 1 was for all verts with no capacity hats
and Div 2 was unlimited. Both had height limits of 13.5'.  The problem

with this was: "what constitutes a capacity hat"?, How long does a
tuneing wire have to be before it becomes a capacity hat, etc.?
The purpose of our  California "shootouts" is to learn about MOBILE
ANTENNA SYSTEMS, and to promote hf mobile, not to see what
mobile system can put out most power.  My dilemma,is the fairness of
the conventional antenna system competing with the person with the
"contest antenna" who as soon as the "shootout" is over will take off
the "hat" and put on a regular whip.  And yet, the "shootouts" not
only are for promotion of hf mobile, but to gain information about
antennas....and....have a good time!??
On 75 - 10 meters when using a 6'or 8' RESONANT ANTENNA, little
difference will be noted if one matches to 50 ohms at the base or at
the end of a 20' quality coax  (ie:RG8 etc) For contest purpose,(where
every .1db counts)  base matching is recommended.
I use motor driven C & L at the base because I QSY a lot.  The person
with the antenna resonant in the 80m dx "window" (3790 -3800)  will
suffer no penality by matching in the cab of vehicle.  We have proven
this many times at "shootouts".  All one has to do is run the numbers.
Because we are interested in antenna efficiency,I subtract reflected
from forward power to determine power accepted by the antenna.

There is nothing like a "shootout" to generate interest in hf mobile.
I would like to see more of them.
73, Jesse, W6KKT





From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dngr youth)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ***Antron 99 vs. Ham Intl. Big Pole****
Date: 13 Aug 1996 13:49:12 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 7
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4uqf6o$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dngr youth)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I need some input on the antennas mentioned. If you are familiar with any
one of them, please email me at your convience. I'm have a few questions
about obtaining maximum performance from both antennas.

Thanks,

Rob


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 10 Meter J-Pole Instructions wanted!!!
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:10:10 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4ul4bt$[e-mail]>
References: <4uisqi$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Jon Compton <[e-mail]> shared the following priceless pearls of
wisdom:

->I am looking for instructions on how to build a 10 meter J-pol
->out of 14 gauge ladder line.

You do realize, yes, that a 10 meter J-pole (built out of ANYTHING,
including ladder line) will be something on the order of 22-25 feet
long?

If so, go to www.rst-engr.com for the values for a 2-meter Jpole and
do a simple frequency scaling for 10 meters.

Jim
Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the
RST Engineering         | company.  If I don't, ain't nobody gonna.
Grass Valley CA 95945   |
http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI--FCC 1st phone---Cessna 182A N73CQ
[e-mail]        | Commercial/CFI-Airplane/Glider-A&P-FAA Counselor



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:29 1996
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From: Robert Trevino \"KC5VLN\" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2m Antenna used for 800 MHz Scanner
Date: 13 Aug 1996 23:28:04 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
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I have a Realistic PRO-34 800MHz scanner and a 2M HTX-202
Portable.  I would like to put a glass mount 2M antenna in my
van and would like to know if I can use this antenna for my
scanner when I'm not using my HT.  I generally scan around 150,
450 and 800+ MHz......

Thanks
KC5VLN



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:32 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 70CM eme
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:39:30 +0100
Organization: IFW Technical Services
Lines: 36
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
 <4um42q$[e-mail]>
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Mike n2ucm wrote:
>does anyone have any antenna recommendations for 70cm eme??
>and let me know some of your experience on the mode.,,
>such as power requirement and so forth,,

Four long yagis such as K1FO-33s, 7-800W (eg a pair of 4CX250Rs), a
GaAsFET preamp and some attention to detail, and away you'll go with a
good signal.

>voice contact's? or cw??

EME signals are almost always very weak and fading, so it's CW all the
way. SSB would be a possibility when working the big guns, but people
hardly ever bother.

Check the ARRL UHF/Microwave Experimenters and Projects manuals for more
information on antennas and power amplifiers.

The 432MHz and Above EME Newsletter contains monthly activity reports
and technical information. It's obtainable for a year by sending 12
business-size SASEs to Allen Katz, K2UYH, Electronic Engineering
Department, Trenton State College, Trenton, NJ 08625.

>
>  thank you ..,,,, 73's
>

Hope to meet you on 432 - I've worked 40 US states by EME, and am
looking hard for the last ten!

Do you happen to live in RI, by any chance?    :-)

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Glenn Elmore)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 70CM eme
Date: 12 Aug 1996 19:13:57 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Sonoma County
Lines: 48
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MIKE ([e-mail]) wrote:
: does anyone have any antenna recommendations for 70cm eme??
: and let me know some of your experience on the mode.,,
: such as power requirement and so forth,, voice contact's?
: or cw??


  I would recommend that you at least consider a large parabolic (or
close enough) reflector.  While arrays of yagis can and do work fine,
they are more demanding both at the individual antenna level and in
particular with regard to proper power distribution and phasing.  It
doesn't take much phasing line error to split the main lobe and lose the
gain maximum that you want.

  The nice thing about large reflectors is that they "just work" the
first time.  They may also allow QSY to different bands if you pick
materials well.

  Along with a number of locals, I built a 24' stressed near-parabolic
reflector and made many contacts on 432 EME.  It was very light in
weight and low in wind resistance.  We wove 2 inch square mesh on a
homebrew loom to keep the windage down.  It was simple to measure and
become confident that it was working properly.  It was also simple to
measure other, non-amateur, signals with it.  When something is wrong or
you're just not hearing anything it is easy to wonder where the problem
is.  With a simple antenna structure like a reflector, verifying
performance and keeping confidence approriately positioned is easier.

  This is not to say that colinear and parasitic arrays shouldn't be
used but there some nice attributes to a large reflector.  For some old
pictures of the system I used, see the web pages (under antennas) at the
bottom.

Glenn Elmore n6gn

amateur IP:     [e-mail]
Internet:       [e-mail]

|--------------- N6GN's Higher Speed Packet WWW Page -------------------|
|                                                                       |
|       http://www.tapr.org/~n6gn/index.html            |
|                                                                       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|







From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:34 1996
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From: "Chris Smith, NR3O" <[e-mail]; [e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 80m in Limited Space
Date: 11 Aug 1996 20:19:15 GMT
Organization: NR3O
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4ulf83$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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I use an "all band" dipole which replaced MY 40 m flattop. It has loading
coils in it which increase electrical length.  I think you can find it in
the ham rags (about $50).  I now have 160-10 in 70'.  I use a 9:1 balun
and 3KW tuner with ladder line.  Baluns can get hot, so link coupling
would be better.  I made my own balun using themalese wire and insulation
tape wrapped around the ferrite core.

73 de Chris



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ross Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 80m/40m fullwave resp. 2*fullwave horiz. loop
Date: 13 Aug 1996 20:42:21 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
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Message-ID: <4uqpbd$[e-mail]>
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Steve Ickes <[e-mail]> writes:

>Unless ur loop is very high in the air (100+ feet) the main lobe or take
>off angle (in elevation)of the radiation will be 90 degrees, or straight
>up in the air.  Not to say there isn't any lower angle stuff (good for
>dx) but most goes straight up.  Azimuthally, the pattern will be
>omnidirectional.

Since the original post specified 300 mile range, a cloudwarmer is actually
a good solution.  Agreed, for DX it's the pits.  But the close-in signal
will be strong.

regards,
Ross ve6pdq

--
Ross Alexander, ve6pdq  --  [phone]  --  [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (SJ Beyers)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Adjusting Phased Array Feed Systems
Date: 14 Aug 1996 03:50:09 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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From the ARRL Antenna Book, under ADJUSTING PHASED ARRAY FEED SYSTEMS:
"If a phased array is constructed only to achieve forward gain, adjusting
it is seldom worth while.  This is because the forward gain of most arrays
is quite insensitive to either the magnitude or phase of the relative
currents flowing in the elements."

Can anyone elaborate on this?  I have noticed, in tinkering with feed
systems for my 3-element in-phase vertical broadside array, that
differences of 20% or so in the element currents don't seem to make much,
if any, difference in gain, and I can't really tell any difference in the
pattern (opinion from on-air observation - no tests).  But it does seem
that at some point differences in current magnitude would have a
significant effect on gain, and that differences in phase would affect
pattern.  Does anyone have experience with just how different these can be
without having a significant effect?

                                            73, Steve


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Miskiewicz)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AM Antenna
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:31:32 UNDEFINED
Organization: World Access Network
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: world142.worldaccess.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]

   I am trying to rig up an AM antenna to my stereo receiver so I can pick up
KNBR in the SF, Ca area. I need some advice on what to use. I can pick up KNBR

at night in my car but not on my stereo. Would appreciate any recommendations
on what to use. I live up near Portland,Or.

Thanks
Mark


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (BoZoBoY)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AM Antenna
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:24:01 GMT
Organization: CLOWN TOWN
Lines: 12
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References: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Mark Miskiewicz) wrote:

>   I am trying to rig up an AM antenna to my stereo receiver so I can pick up

>KNBR in the SF, Ca area. I need some advice on what to use. I can pick up KNB
R
>at night in my car but not on my stereo. Would appreciate any recommendations

>on what to use. I live up near Portland,Or.

>Thanks
>Mark

why not just move to San Francisco?



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:38 1996
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From: "David P. Hummel, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna for Jeep Wrangler.
Date: 13 Aug 1996 16:06:15 GMT
Organization: InternetMCI
Lines: 5
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I have a soft top Jeep Wrangler and would like to use my 2 meter rig at
about 50 watts.  Any suggestions, do they make 2m verticals that I can
bumper mount? any folding radials?




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Lawrence Stoskopf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna model help
Date: 13 Aug 96 13:46:28 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Anyone have a good model of a tuned ferrite loop antenna (for 60 KHz) for
use in ARRL Radio Designer?

No problem modeling the antenna and adding it to the amplifier.  Then to get
a signal into the circuit, I added a 10 pf cap in series with the source and
one end of the antenna.  Shape looks reasonable, but has an obvious high
pass pattern.  Tried a loosely coupled primary, but didn't get the coupling
correct and ended up with a  very lossy model.

This must be trivial for someone.

Thanks

Lawrence E. Stoskopf, M.D.
N0UU



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:40 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna wire gauge question
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:19:31 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 29
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4uo043$[e-mail]>
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In article <4ungg9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (pdunn)
writes:

>While browsing the tuner manual I read the statement that
>using larger gauge wire will increase the efficiency of the antenna. It
>said that you can get a 3db gain by going from 16 ga to 8 ga stranded.
>
>The question: what is the basis of this statement? Are we talking
resistive
>losses or what?
>
>Phil ki0dm
>
>

What a silly thing to say.

There are specific cases where an efficiency increase could be found with
a wire size increase, one specifically would be if the wire was a half
wave long and the tuner had matching losses trying to match the high end
impedance. In that case, a thicker wire would produce a lower end
impedance and reduce tuner losses.

All the cases I can think of are very special cases and can NOT be related
to an "X" dB improvement.

Sounds like someone made a mistake when they wrote that part the manual.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:41 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Casey)
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <4uoo4c$[e-mail]> <4upp8p$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:23:32 GMT
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail]

The balun is to keep radiation off the feedline.  One way to keep radiation
from traveling down the feedline from the antenna feedpoint is to make
a "choke coil" by making several loops of feedline just below the antenna
feedpoint.  This keeps rf from flowing down the _outside_ of the coax
shield.  the RF on the center conductor and the _inside_ of the shield
just sees itself inside a coax cable, and doesnt "know" about the coil
od coax.  You just created a 1:1 balun.

If you wanted to build your own 4:1 balum, going from 75 to 300 ohms,
you would get some 150 ohm impedance transmission line.  Take two lengths
of the 150 ohm stuff, wire in parallel at the 75 ohm end.  Make many
loops of the wire to form chokes (each independent of each other of the
pair of 150 ohm lines).  And then connect the two 150 ohm lines in
series to connect to the 300 ohm side, the conductor that connected to
the ground side of the 50 ohm end goes to the 300 ohm line, the other
conductor of the same 150 ohm line (tied to the center conductor of the 75
ohm coax) connects to the ground tied conductor of the second 150 line,
and the other conductor of that line (tied to coax center conductor) goes
to the other connection of the 300 ohm line.  It looks like you shorted the
coax, but the "short" path has to go thru the choke coiled 150 ohm line.
and those coils 'remove' the shorting action.  So it becomes:
parallel at one end: series at the other end.  1 to 4.

That's all that's to those little TV baluns from the cable company, the
ferrite bead just increases the choke coiled 150 ohm line action.



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:42 1996
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From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 13 Aug 1996 11:50:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4upq6i$[e-mail]>
References: <4uoo4c$[e-mail]> <4upp8p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pax-ca25-46.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 13  6:50:42 AM CDT 1996


[e-mail] (Yuri Yevgenyevich Yuryev) wrote:
>
>I have a little trouble understanding the following.  Half-wave Dipole
is balanced, and any kind of coax that you run from it is unbalanced.
So it seems logical that you need a BALUN for this system.  However, in
many publications it says that you DO NOT NEED A BALUN for a system
like this.
>Can somebody please give me the correct answer!!!
>

Roy Lewallen, W7EL, wrote an excellent article entitled "Baluns:  What
They Do and How They Do It" in volume 1 or the ARRL's Antenna
Compendium.  It clarified the subject for me, and I highly recommend
it.

- Jeff, WA6AHL


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 21:30:11 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4uqs2s$[e-mail]>
References: <4uoo4c$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <4uoo4c$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Yuri Yevgenyevich Yuryev) wrote:
>I have a little trouble understanding the following.  Half-wave Dipole is
>balanced, and any kind of coax that you run from it is unbalanced.  So it
>seems logical that you need a BALUN for this system.  However, in many
>publications it says that you DO NOT NEED A BALUN for a system like this.
>Can somebody please give me the correct answer!!!
>

The answer is, "depends". I suggest reading "Some Aspects of the Balun
Problem", QST, March 1983, p. 38, and "Baluns: What They Do and How They Do
It", ARRL Antenna Compendium, Vol. 1, p. 157.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:44 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:37:54 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4uoo4c$[e-mail]> <4uough$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>         Ok, Cecil.  But here is a followup question for you.  At what
> point does mismatch become a significant factor affecting the radiation
> pattern of a 1/2 wave in space?

Hi Anthony, assuming that you are talking about the unbalanced to
balanced mismatch rather than an impedance mismatch, the feedline
radiation is 90deg to the coax, i.e. usually vertical, taking away
from the horizontal dipole radiation. For me, feedline radiation
resulted in better local contacts off the end of my dipole especially
to 10m mobile units. Adding a balun decreased my local 10m coverage.

I can't say that the balun significantly
helped my horizontal radiation pattern which was probably only slightly
distorted by the unbalance. Adding the balun did result in less RF
in the shack and lots less TVI.

Maybe somebody smarter than me can give us an estimate of what percentage
of the RF current flows down the outside coax braid.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:45 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 16 Aug 1996 02:43:53 -0400
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In article <4uu442$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) writes:

>    Actually what I meant is if there is a 1:1 match of coax to the
>antenna, then there should be no shield currents to interfere with
>the pattern.  Yeh, I know 1:1 is the exception and tough to achieve
>but this should put the matter of feedline currents at rest.  Then,
>if there is a mis-match (probably > 1:1 but < 2:1)...at what
>point do these minor currents affect realistic operation (?).
>
>

SWR has nothing to do with the requirement to use a balun. A 10:1 SWR
sytem may not need a balun, and a 1:1 system might be severely affected by
lack of a balun.

Baluns are required to correct common mode problems, SWR is a differential
mode problem.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:46 1996
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From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:46:33 -0400
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To: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <4uough$[e-mail]>

 On 13 Aug 1996, Cecil Moore wrote:
> [e-mail] (Yuri Yevgenyevich Yuryev) wrote:
> >I have a little trouble understanding the following.  Half-wave Dipole is
> >balanced, and any kind of coax that you run from it is unbalanced.  So it
> >seems logical that you need a BALUN for this system.  However, in many
> >publications it says that you DO NOT NEED A BALUN for a system like this.
> >Can somebody please give me the correct answer!!!
>
> Hi Dr. Yuryev, It's really simple. If you can tolerate feedline radiation,
> don't use a balun. If you can't tolerate feedline radiation (or feedline
> radiation is against your religion) use a balun. (I use a balun).
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Since a balun isn't really needed on a dipole, why not just use the
wind the coax at the feed point type current balun... Doesn't change
the way its fed, should only help eliminate fed line radiation...?
It looks like hell but it seems to work...

De Tom - KD4QHH







From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:47 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur
Subject: Re: Balun VS RF Transformer
Date: 13 Aug 1996 04:14:55 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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Avatar <[e-mail]> wrote:
>If you really are using a balun
>in this type of application, you have limited the versatility
>and efficiency of your system for transfering power to the load.

Such an elegant posting, I hesitate to add anything. If one
ensures that a 4:1 balun sees 200+j0 ohms, the balun will
outperform a transformer over a wider frequency range -
probably why TLTs were invented. I use a balun on the *input*
of my balanced "tuner" to cover 10m-75m. It would be hard to do
that with an air-core transformer without changing taps because
of the 10/1 frequency variation.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Mark A. Garrett)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Broadcast TV antennas
Date: 14 Aug 1996 02:08:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4urcf7$[e-mail]>
References: <4uqfqj $[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Mark A. Garrett)
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Aubert) says:

>Please suggest references on braodcast (VHF/UHF) antennas. I live out in
>the country and I want to improve my reception. ANy suggested tricks of
>the trade to improve existing antennas (e.g., adding a booster,etc.)
>would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff


Jeff:

Where do you live in relation to the stations that you are wanting to
receive?  Are you wanting something that you can rotate or a fixed system.
What kind of terrain do you have to work with?
I know that there are many questions here but it helps to know what to
recommend.
--
Mark Garrett   [e-mail]
               KA9SZX @ N9LNQ.#ECIL.IL.USA.NOAM


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:49 1996
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From: Jim <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Broadcast TV antennas
Date: 15 Aug 1996 16:28:39 GMT
Organization: IdeaSource
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[e-mail] (Jeffrey Aubert) wrote:
>Please suggest references on braodcast (VHF/UHF) antennas.

Start with Radio Shack's biggest, add a masthead pre-amp, and get
the antenna as high in the air as you reasonably can.

If you're so far out you can't get satisfactory results,
get a DSS dish.




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (A.G. von Luternow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Building A One Tower Station
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:46:14 GMT
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On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:34:41 -0500, Ken Bessler <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>
>If I remember right, a log periodic has almost no gain over a dipole.
>
>
>> (b)     Would a trapped beam like the Mosley Pro67 for 7 -30Mhz
>>         offer a better performance?
>
>Maybe but you could do better by stacking less expensive antennas for higher
>gain. Same money but more gain..
>
>
>Just my 2 cents worth...
>
>                               KG0WX

        Would stacked mono-band yagis be considered two antennae or as
elements of a single array?


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:54 1996
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From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Cellular Antenna Patent
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:52:01 -0700
Organization: Wheeeeee!
Lines: 28
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There are only two ways you can make an antenna "radiate less:"

One is to reduce its efficeincy.  That's easy.  It is also stupid
because the whole point of having an antenna is to radiate.  This
is really self defeating.

The other way is to recognize that what you're really trying to
do is get the radiation away from the subject's body.  This will
work.  It is also results in big, goofy-looking antennas as far
as the general public is concerned.  They like their tiny, "cute"
antennas.  And further, I don't think there is anything
particularly patent-able about making a cellular antenna with
slightly more gain.

If you want better cellular antenna performance, ditch that stupid
glass mount doo-dad, and get a cellular antenna mounted dead square
in the middle of your car roof.  That will improve your cellular
performance more than anthing else.

I think these guys are selling snake oil.  If you still think they
deserve your money, I have some prime Florida real estate I'd like
to sell you...

73,
Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL-IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:55 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Emoting and Great writers of the Net
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:50:48 -0700
Organization: none
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JAMES MCEWEN wrote:
>
>
>      Methinks I see a fallacy in this argument.   If it were a really
>      great play then the design is for emotion to be expressed by the
>      actor, not the text of the play.  This is the difference between
>      a great actor and a ham.  and I'm sorry Bill, but I won't waste
>      my great writing talents upon the unwashed masses of the
>      internet.  Especially since a simple :) could tell the tone of a
>      statement.
>

An actor gets guidance from the play.  A musician gets guidance from the
score. And I feel that any technical person is more effective if he can
communicate via a good command of language and mathematics. I can find
nothing wrong with this. It is not a put-down of anyone, but rather a
good goal for all of us, in my opinion. And there many good role models
here on the antenna forum that we (especially myself) can learn from.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:56 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Emoting and Great writers of the Net
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:20:40 -0700
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Alexander Vrenios wrote:

>    This isn't technical writing and the topic it isn't guidance, it's
> emotion. James is right - enough already. (Please note the tremendous
> restraint at not using an emoticon, Bill.)
>


Go soak your head, Alex. I don't take orders from you! Do you understand
plain English?

Bill


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:57 1996
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From: Mike White <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FAQ on Antenna Comparisions
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 13:35:15 -0500
Organization: Sequent
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Has anyone done a faq/web page on antenna
comparisions?  I'm looking to buy some sort
of vertical, but rather unsure of what's a
good one.

Thanks-
  -Mike  N9UXC


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:58 1996
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From: Wayne Shanks <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Fwd: 145 mhz ant.
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:44:47 -0400
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD
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To: [e-mail]

How about a patch antenna.  I built a 144.55 Mhz patch antenna.  It is
about 19 inchex long, 6 in wide, and  1 inch thick.  The nice thing
about it is that it sits flat (1 inch tall).  You can hang it out of a
window, and it works great.  It does require a bit more expertise and
tweaking than a dipole, but I thought it was fun.


Wayne


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:30:59 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.boats.electronics
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Kamen)
Subject: Re: Garmin 40 GPS Ant. Connector
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: GPS Antenna Connector
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <4u64ct$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 16:55:17 GMT
Lines: 7
Sender: [e-mail]
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23596 rec.boats.electronics:149

It is an "MCX" connector. Although I'm not sure where that info came from.

--
[e-mail]
http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html

                                              -"Call me Fishmeal"-


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:00 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Alexander Vrenios)
Subject: Re: Getting wires up in the trees
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:18:40 GMT
References: <4t6nhk$[e-mail]> <4tmmcd$n7o$[e-mail]> <4u06ej$[e-mail]> <4uiktp$[e-mail]>
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In article <4uiktp$[e-mail]>,
Leland S. Van Koten  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <4u06ej$[e-mail]>,
>       [e-mail] (Harry) wrote:
>
>>Brian Webb <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>>Here are two ways of getting an antenna up a tree:
>>>     1. Tie the dacron or other synthetic rope around a
>>>        fist-sized rock and wrap the rock in electrical
>>>        tape and throw it over a tall branch.
>>>                         WARNING
>>>        You can seriously hurt yourself or somebody else
>>>        with the rock. I've had a rock bounce off of a
>>>        tree and almost hit me.
>
>You can also do some pretty good damage to a window.  A couple
>of years ago, I used this method to throw an antenna over a
>tree limb while standing on my roof.  I missed the limb and
>broke a large window.  I can only imagine what my neighbors
>thought of seeing me standing on my roof swearing at myself!
>
   I had good luck with fishing line and an old casting plug.
Once the fishing line is over the limb, usde that to pull the
heavier line over, etc. The lighter weight (a few ounces) poses
less of a hazard to passers by, the dog, etc. :-)




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (John Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ground Rods and Rock
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:45:14 -0600
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac103-west.edb.utexas.edu

I am putting up a new antenna system and need to install ground rods.  The
problem is that under 22' of top soil I have solid limestone.
Any ideas?
AB5YQ...John


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:02 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help! 8' vs 13' 28.5mhz Mobile ??
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:51:32 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Help!  In previous threads I got into a "flame out" (most of the flame
from me, which I apologize for) concerning the use of a 8' whip versus
a  13' whip in mobile use on 28.5mhz.  It was my opinion, going to the
13' whip would do little to increase effective radiated power and may
even show a little loss over the 8' whip due to match loss when
matching to 19:1 mismatch to a 50 ohm line.
It is my understanding, when using a above ground  finite ground plane
(mobile?), the theoretical gain of a .5wl versus .25wl vert radiator
over a infinite ground system is not applicable.  The real advantage
may be in lowering take off by a few degrees.
Using Eznec, I have tried modeling something close to a vehicle ground
plane, using 8' and 13' radiators. My results were not accurate
(source impedance's way off).  I suspect my modeling of the vehicle
frame with its many angles???
Anyone out there who can help this "flaming" retard?:-)
73, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:03 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: My Windom stinks!
Date: 12 Aug 1996 12:19:09 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 48
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4unlht$[e-mail]>
References: <4uid77$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Bill,

In article <4uid77$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(BillV21572) writes:

>Ok, so I went ahead and built my current antenna from an article, instead
>of buying it commercially [I'm Dutch:)].   I used the Bob Grove design
>from a 1982 copy of CQ magazine -  44 foot on one side, 90 feet on the
>other.  Feedline is 48.5 feet of 300 ohm twinlead, into a 4:1 homemade
>balun: 12 paired turns of 16 ga. enamelled wire, on an Amidon T-200
toroid
>following the diagram in the Radio Amateur's Handbook.  RG-8/U coax (60
>feet long) connects the balun to the transceiver.

First, I never read the article. It sounds like a 4:1 voltage balun was
used. If so, that was a major oversight.

The Windom is a strange beast, The original theories were incorrect,
tapping the feeder off center does not produce the same current
distribution of an end or series fed antenna, nor does it provide a
magical 600 ohm feedpoint. The flat-top was actually excited by out of
phase currents on each side of the antenna leaving the feedpoint, not
conventional dipole currents.

Later on, the design was modified. Hams started feeding the Windom with
parallel wire lines. This was actually an improvement, because the
feedline radiation was reduced and antenna currents were more like the
original Windom antenna theory predicted.

But substantial common mode feedline currents remain even in the more
modern Windom. The feedline is still a major part of the radiating system.

A 4:1 voltage type balun, as opposed to a choke or isolation type balun,
does nothing to reduce this effect. Feedline length and positioning
greatly affects SWR and antenna performance, since the feedline is part of
the radiating system. Even altering the cable between the balun and the
rig will change the SWR!

A perfect choke balun placed right at the antenna terminals is needed to
eliminate feedline radiation. Since the balun can't be perfect, you may
need a few choke baluns spread through the system, and of course a
impedance transforming balun also.

I think you did everything right, I just think you followed bad technical
advice. If you had good SWR results, I'd let you buy my Lottery tickets.
You would be a very lucky fellow.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: My Windom stinks!
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 03:06:16 GMT
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On 10 Aug 1996 12:26:15 -0400, [e-mail] (BillV21572) wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>Ok, so I went ahead and built my current antenna from an article, instead
>of buying it commercially [I'm Dutch:)].   I used the Bob Grove design
>from a 1982 copy of CQ magazine -  44 foot on one side, 90 feet on the
>other.  Feedline is 48.5 feet of 300 ohm twinlead, into a 4:1 homemade
>balun: 12 paired turns of 16 ga. enamelled wire, on an Amidon T-200 toroid
>following the diagram in the Radio Amateur's Handbook.  RG-8/U coax (60
>feet long) connects the balun to the transceiver.  The antenna is hung in
>an inverted V configuration, 30 feet high at the center, 8 feet up on the
>ends.  The article showed VSWR's easily <2:1 on most ham bands, with a
>rare 2.5 - 3:1.  My swr is almost exclusively >3:1 everywhere (if not
>5+:1).  Where might I have gone wrong?  I can read, I can follow
>directions, I can solder solid connections.  The beauty of this antenna
>was that it supposedly didn't require a tuner on most of the bands.
>Luckily, I've got a tuner.  Should I just stop my bellyaching and use it?
>Or does anyone see something basic I missed from what I've just described?
> Any thoughts would be deeply appreciated.   Geez my wife thinks I don't
>know what I'm doing!
>
>73 de bill
>
>Bill Vanstralen  KA9HLN  St. Paul, MN  [phone]  [e-mail]
Hi Bill, you don't have the only wife who thinks her husband is a
dummy!
1.  With the tuner in line can you achieve a low enough swr so your
transmitter will deliver its rated power output?   If so, for now, use
the antenna and see how it works.  If you are like the rest of us,
this will be a first among many antennas  you will try.  Don't be
discouraged  by the antenna that dosn't work well,  you will learn
more about antennas from it,  than the one that works great right out
of the box!
2. Unless you load into a resistor you will never see a 1:1 swr
without some kind of  tuner, when using a "all band antenna" .  A
tuner  is not all that bad! It can become a friend.
Respectfully,  Jesse, W6KKT?


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: My Windom stinks!
Date: 14 Aug 1996 01:17:41 -0400
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In article <4unlht$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:

>
>A perfect choke balun placed right at the antenna terminals is needed to
>eliminate feedline radiation. Since the balun can't be perfect, you may
>need a few choke baluns spread through the system, and of course a
>impedance transforming balun also.
>
>

Woops!

Actually even a perfect choke balun wouldn't fix this antenna, it needs a
few perfect baluns spread along the feedline.

I neglected to consider field excitation of the off-set feedline.

I can't think of an antenna more prone to feeder radiation, except the
Windom's vertical cousin.... the J pole.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:06 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help: My Windom stinks!
Date: 15 Aug 1996 14:11:08 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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[e-mail] (Graham Seale) wrote:
>Back and forth it (reflected power) bounces, each time transmitting
>some.

Hi Graham, I believe this to be true. However, some experts have told
me that under steady state conditions, all the reflected power circulates
without ever being radiated and all the generated power is radiated
without ever being reflected. Same guys knew how many angels can dance
on the head of a pin. :-)

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:07 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RE:HF Mobile Ant
Date: 13 Aug 1996 03:41:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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[e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:
>Cecil, you win, I give up.  I think the subject matter has worn out.
>Maybe you don't agree with me, or the way I say them,

Hi Jesse, It's all great fun if one doesn't get emotionally
involved. We're like two Libertarians arguing whether taxes
should be cut by 99% or 98%. I agree with everything you said,
cuz you're right. We differ in style, not in content.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna's for ICOM 706
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:24:06 GMT
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On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:22:41 GMT, [e-mail] (Bart Senior)
wrote:

>I plan to test for my Advanced License soon.   I am thinking about
>buying an ICOM 706 and would like to know what is the best option for
>an automobile  mobile antenna.
>
>Any suggestions on mounting would also be appreciated.
>
>I will be running the 706 on a full sized '83 Blazer.--which has a
>Thule roof bar over the cab.  I don't mind drilling holes in the
>roof--I have two already--one for a scanner, one for a 1/4 wave CB, or
>modifiying the roof bar--a good place for a 2 meter antenna.  Another
>option is to purchasing a hitch mount.
>
>I've read about the Outbacker and Texas Bugcatcher.  Both required
>stopping to reset taps.  I will be driving cross country and would
>prefer to stay in my car as I tune across various bands--unless this
>is an unrealistic goal for decent performance.
>
>I've also thought about using a whip with an antenna tuner.  What is
>the best lenght.  The Icom AT-180 is expensive.  I've heard about
>other options for tuning--all comments would be welcome.
>
>A last option is more than one HF antenna on my truck. However, too
>many sticks might start skewing the azimuthal antenna patterns--I want
>to keep those as isotropic as possible.   Any thoughts on this would
>be appreciated.
>
>All this is advance preparation for use on an ocean going yacht.  I
>want to be intimately familar with radio operation before I go to sea.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Bart Senior, ASA Sailing Instructor
>
Hi Bart, if you want MM information I suggest you participate in the
MM nets. Talk to the yachts that have the strongest signals and find
out what antenna they are using.  On a fiberglass boat it is very
difficult to obtain a good rf ground. Many people think by being close
to salt water this would be easy.  Not so.  Attaching a ground wire to
the keel bolts on a fiberglass sailing yacht dont't cut it.
Sound like you may be a candidate for a "screwdriver" type system.
In my opinion, they are about the best "tune from inside", all-band,
compromise. The B.J. "screwdriver" (made in Oregon) is made very well
and has placed high in "mobile shootouts". Get the ARRL mobile
handbook.
Good Luck, Jesse, W6KKT





From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:19:49 GMT
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On 11 Aug 1996 03:19:14 GMT, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>[e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:
>>If you are interested only in 20 thru 10  the base
>>tuned 6, 7 or 8 foot whip  is not bad.
>
>Hmmmm... in another posting you said high voltage at the base
>of a mobile antenna is a "design flaw". A "base tuned 6 ...
>foot whip" used on "20 thru 10" is guaranteed to have high
>voltage at its feedpoint. (I love to nitpick a nitpicker). :-)
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
>
>
Hmmm....and, you picked up on that!  You are absolutely correct. When
using short, non resonant, whips the reactive component will raise the
relatively low feed point impedance (sometime to very high values).
The ensueing dielectric loss due to proximity of the whip base to
vehicle, tuner losses, and additional ground loss  ,will degrade gain
(if any) over an isotropic radiator.
I welcome a "nitpicker". I put myself at the top of the list as having
the ability to be incorrect.
I will challange anyone who makes rationalizations and justifications
why an antenna system need not work to the best of it's ability.
Usually, when challanged, these people use words like "nitpicker".
An ignorant man is usually one whos mouth is always flapping , and
hears nothing! :>)
Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:13 1996
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From: Bill Gilmore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 14:46:32 -0700
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Ed Ingraham wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about installing my IC-706 in my 96 Ford F-150.
> I like the idea of a whip and automatic tuner rather than
> the multi-band mobile antennas I've seen.
>
> Any pros and cons for a whip with tuner vs resonant whips?
> How important is the length of cable between the tuner and
> the whip?
> Any other suggestions?
>
> 73, Ed WX4SEd,

Here are a couple of drawings for you.  Maybe you are interested,
maybe not.  Have fun!

Bill Gilmore (KO6HL)


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:14 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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From: [e-mail] (charles copeland)
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4umj4g$[e-mail]> <4una4h$[e-mail]>
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In article <4una4h$[e-mail]>,
Jeff Anderson <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In <4umj4g$[e-mail]> Cecil Moore
><[e-mail]> writes:
>
>>I assume you know humor is allowed especially if one identifies it
>>with a :-) which I try to do.
>>
>Although a bit off the antenna topic, I just have to respond to this.
>
>On a scale of annoyance, "emoticons" (those strange symbols such as
>:-)) rank just below 'fingernails-on-blackboard.'  First, they often
>*don't* denote humor, but rather obfuscation of a cutting or satirical
>remark, in a sense implying, "I'm going to send an insult to the
>recipient, but follow it with this humor symbol so that the remark can
>be taken as either an insult or joke.  If they're offended, I'll claim
>it was a joke, and if instead they take it as a joke, then I'll have
>slyly insulted them without their notice."
>
>Secondly, they're patronizing.  Does the user of the symbol think we're
>so dense that we can't understand humor when we read it?  Or that their
> style of humor is so subtle that we, the great unwashed, won't notice
>it unless it's pointed out to us?  Give us credit for some brains, at
>least!
>
>The English language is an incredibly rich and textured language,
>expressive, subtle, and sublime.  Many great masterpieces have been
>written over the ages, and in not one does an emoticon appear!
>
>Express yourself clearly.  If you think there's the chance of the
>reader misunderstanding, then you're *always* better off trying to find
>a better, cleaner way to state it, rather than following it with an
>emoticon.
>
>- Jeff, WA6AHL

There is a reason those symbols were invented. Emotion doesn't
transmit well on internet postings. If all one posts are dry
non-emotional boring postings, you don't need them. Flames,
arguments, disagreements abound on the internet and demand
some form of communication to indicate ones emotion on a subject.
Emoticons have a place on the internet. ;-(



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:20:54 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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On 13 Aug 1996 03:20:27 GMT, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>>Boys, boys, boys. Now settle down before you get yourselves in trouble!
>
>>In article <4umj4g$[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
>><[e-mail]> writes:
>
>Well, actually Jesse rote this'un.
>
>JT>>>1.  There is no gain advantage using a 13'  versus 8'  whip on 10
>>>>meters. In fact, maybe a slight loss.
>
>At what Take Off Angle? 90deg? I consider anything less than 25deg to
>be neglible on 10m given the low of the sunspot cycle. Jesse, if you
>say a take-off angle of 90deg on 10m counts in this discussion, I will
>be depressed forever. Do you really want that? :-)
>
>CM>>Everyone knows that whip gain increases from 1/4 WL to 1/2 WL to 5/8 WL.
>
>Tom>I don't know that. I know the gain along the horizion generally increases
>>until a length around or just over a half WL is reached. A 5/8 WL antenna
>>requires a good ground out some distance to be effective.
>
>Tom, I have learned not to argue with you. Let me just say that my
>imperfect groundwave measurements using N5AQM's imperfect receiver
>indicated that an imperfect 13ft whip yielded a stronger ground-wave
>signal than a perfect 9ft whip on 28.4MHz. IMO, you can't consider any
>TOA greater than 25deg. (If you don't like that TOA, let me know what
>you do like.)
>
>EZNEC yields the following:
>
>     TOA      15deg     20deg     25deg
>
>8ft  whip     -1.06dBi  0.69dBi   2.08dBi
>13ft whip      0.70dBi  2.38dBi   2.38dBi
>
>(Tom, how could you possibly doubt a member of Mensa with 37 years
>experience as an Electrical Engineer and 44 years experience as a ham?)
>:-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  for the humor impaired.
>
>>As I read the original question, I think the fellow intended to use a
>>short non-resonant whip with a tuner. That would be a bad idea.
>
>I agree 200% (Even if I don't understand why, I have learned to agree
>with W8JI on principle. :-)
>
>>I'm after excellence with my mobile signal also, but at times I wish I
>>could change bands without stopping.
>
>Tom, just between you and me, that's blaspheme. The whole purpose of Ham
>Radio is to radiate the most power, even if it hairlips God.
>
>>My new coil will use VACUUM latching relays to switch bands, AND a tuner
>
>Dang, I'm glad you don't want to drive to CA next year. :-)
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
>
>Cecil, would you mind sending me the Eznec mobile model using the 8' whip on
the 6 x 12' platform?  Evidently, I'm doing something wrong and would like to
find out why?  Email: [e-mail]
Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:16 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: 13 Aug 1996 21:39:06 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <4uos9r$[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> writes:

>Tom, I have learned not to argue with you. Let me just say that my
>imperfect groundwave measurements using N5AQM's imperfect receiver
>indicated that an imperfect 13ft whip yielded a stronger ground-wave
>signal than a perfect 9ft whip on 28.4MHz. IMO, you can't consider any
>TOA greater than 25deg. (If you don't like that TOA, let me know what
>you do like.)

A 13 ft whip is not a 5/8 wave on 10 meters, it's just over a 1/4 wl long.


>EZNEC yields the following:
>
>     TOA      15deg     20deg     25deg
>
>8ft  whip     -1.06dBi  0.69dBi   2.08dBi
>13ft whip      0.70dBi  2.38dBi   2.38dBi

25 degrees is certainly good at the high end of HF.

I'm not sure how the newfangled programs work on calculating ground wave
or very low angle signals. What ground conductivity did you use?

One of the poorest medium to long distance antennas I ever tried on 160
was a 5/8 wl vertical, same on 80. I remember the year W8LT tried a 300 ft
vertical on 160....we were smoking them by four or five S units into
Europe with a 1/4 wl vertical.

Anyway, none of that matters unless you operate six meters and above. Just
cause an antenna is a true full length 5/8 wl, doesn't mean it will
radiate LIKE a 5/8 wl on paper (or video). Even if the antenna is tall
enough you better have a darn good ground extending out several WL in
every direction or the improvement won't be there. Heck, it usually isn't
even there on the AM broadcast band, and look at how well soil behaves
that low in frequency.

>Tom, just between you and me, that's blaspheme. The whole purpose of Ham
>Radio is to radiate the most power, even if it hairlips God.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the very best signal. I did the very
best I could, and then started reducing the problem areas. Such as:

At 13' 6" I couldn't use some roads. I found 12' 3" a worthwhile
compromise. I just have to live with it!

My cage hat caught too many limbs (and a few Spotted Owls), two stacked
hats made from 12 Ford type car antennas (I got em at the K-Mart parking
lot late at night :-)  ) has just a bit less capacitance but doesn't break
or snag when it hits a branch. I lost a lttle BW and efficiency, I just
have to live with it!

A vacuum relay adds stray capacitance across a section of the coil,
something I worked hard at eliminating a few months ago, but allows me to
change bands quickly.
I lost a little BW and efficiency, I just WANT to live with it.

Even people with power fettishes are willing to make great sacrifices.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:18 1996
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From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: 14 Aug 1996 13:25:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <4usk55$[e-mail]>
References: <4uopqj$[e-mail]> <4urca8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pax-ca14-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 14  8:25:57 AM CDT 1996

In <4urca8$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:
>
>In article <4uopqj$[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
><[e-mail]> writes:
>
>>
>>But Bill, do you consider yourself a "great writer"? I certainly
>>don't. What should we peons do? Guess the best I can do is an
>>emoticon! =8}O=
>>
>>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
>
>See here's an example of the problem with text, and why little extras
>help..
>
...and that wouldn't be clarified with emoticons.

>By " I certainly don't." does Cecil mean he doesn't consider Bill a
great writer or doesn't consider himself one?

"I'm sure Cecil means the latter, but considering the former is much
more fun," Jeff replied with a wink and a grin.

"Whoops, and Bill, no insult intended," he hurriedly added!

>
>Was the "What should we peons do?" a friendly comment or sneering
sarcasm?
>
Both interpretations work.  I'd leave it as it is and let the reader
decide.  Ambiguity sometimes has a purpose.


Cecil and others have posted many a fine post to this group, and I hope
they will post many more.  The original intent of my post was to point
out that not everyone believes emoticons proper in postings that will
be read by strangers (which, on the inet, we are), but rather are a
form of bad grammer that, like burping after a meal or using the word
"ain't," best done only in the presence of family or friends, not
strangers.

It is an unfortunate fact that there are those in this world who judge
others by the style, and not just the content, of their speech.  This
is as true on the internet as it is in business.  At my company we
transact an enormous amount of inter- and intra-departmental business
with e-mail - everything from long reports to terse memos.  I don't
think I've ever seen an emoticon in this environment, and almost all
make the effort to write well - after all, I don't think anyone would
send an e-mail to their manager, and especially to their CEO, with
misspellings, grammatical errors, and emoticons (I know that our CFO
equates sloppy writing with sloppy thinking.  And if if you think
sloppily, then we're paying you too much!).

Shouldn't we treat the readers here with the same respect we'd treat
our business peers?

Hey, it's just a rhetorical question.  I don't really expect an answer!
;-)

- Jeff, WA6AHL


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:19 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:48:35 -0700
Organization: none
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
> >By " I certainly don't." does Cecil mean he doesn't consider Bill a great
> >writer or doesn't consider himself one?
>
> Dang, it obviously applies to me, doesn't it. One more apology is in
> order. I need a breathalyzer tied to my computer.
>
> >Was the "What should we peons do?" a friendly comment or sneering sarcasm?
>
> friendly sarcasm  :-)
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC


Hey, let's face it! We're all a great bunch of guys, writers, hams, etc.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:20 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Verticals: interaction
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:06:53 +0100
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FORREST GEHRKE wrote:
>DP> (We need to keep the 1-year old triplets IN, but I still want the RF
>DP> to get OUT.).  The all wood fence would be pretty invisible to RF,
>DP> but if we need to choose the metal fence (at nearest it would be 50
>DP> feet from the HF6V) perhaps grounding it to the radial system at
>DP> several points would actually be beneficial???  Or is this something
>DP> to avoid at all costs? (Yup, I know it is steel so not the greatest
>DP> conductor of RF...)
>
>I'll bet a dollar to two pants buttons it won't make a particle of
>difference.  However, if you want to see how much difference,
>run your radials up to the steel fence but do not connect them.
>Do some tests: measuring self-Z would be one of them.
>
>Then connect the radials to the fence.  Do the same tests.
>
>You may see some differences.  Pick the best of the two situations.
>

Another useful test would be to measure currents with a clamp-on RF
milliammeter, with or without the radials connected to the fence.
(Presumably the fence doesn't exist yet, but you could simulate the main
features with a few metal stakes and lengths of antenna wire.)

If the fence is making a difference, it will have significant RF
currents flowing in it. If it ain't, it won't.

Any comments on what size currents would be "significant" in this
context? More than a few percent of the current in the main vertical
radiator, maybe?

BTW, after building a clamp-on RF current meter about a year ago, I'm a
complete convert! It works wonders for identifying stray RF in the shack
and house wiring, and in TV antenna downleads etc. Even uncalibrated,
it's very useful for measurements on antennas.

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: how can I broadcast on FM radio?
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 11:18:32 -0400
Organization: BrightNet Ohio
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In article <[e-mail]>, robert <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Could someone point towards info on how to broadcast on FM radio.
> I've heard it called free radio or pirate radio. Does that mean it's
> illegal (how illegal:)? What makes it illegal (in florida)? Where can I
> buy the equipment? What would I need to buy? I just want to transmit 5
> to 10 miles and just music (mostly my own and my friends music so as not
> to violate copyrights or whatever).
>
They call it PIRATE RADIO because they hang Pirates when they catch them.
That is what the FCC will do if you are caught broadcasting music 5-10
miles on FM Radio without a license. Amateur radio regulations prohibitthe
broadcast of music. Other broadcast of music requires a commercial
broadcast license. You are facing fines ranging from $2000 to $15000 if
you are caught, which means free radio is only free until you are caught.
These are serious fines, the FCC does noto mess around with parking ticket
size penalties. If you choose to use amateur radio FM equipment, licensed
amateurs will quickly track you down and report you to the FCC. Tracking
illegal stations is an Amateur radio hobby/sport.
Charles


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:22 1996
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From: [e-mail](MIKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: how can I broadcast on FM radio?
Date: 12 Aug 1996 02:20:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4um4co$[e-mail]>
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In <[e-mail]> robert <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>Could someone point towards info on how to broadcast on FM radio.
>I've heard it called free radio or pirate radio. Does that mean it's
>illegal (how illegal:)? What makes it illegal (in florida)? Where can
I
>buy the equipment? What would I need to buy? I just want to transmit 5
>to 10 miles and just music (mostly my own and my friends music so as
not
>to violate copyrights or whatever).
>
>-- you would first have to apply to the fcc for a license,, otherwise
it is illegal!!  first apply and then take it from there,,there are
hundreds of guidelines that must be followed,,good luck,,youll need
it!!  (and money too!!)
>______________________
>robert mailto:[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:23 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hy-Gain/Telex V2R Vertical 2 Mtr.
Date: 11 Aug 96 10:51:51 GMT
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Dear Folks,

I have been off the air for about 10 years and have managed to lose the
paperwork/manuals on most of my equipment and antennas.

I have an older (vintage 1983) Hy-gain V2R 2mtr vertical and have no
dimensions for proper reassembly.  I tried to use the corrosion free areas to
set it up but they aren't suitable in this location.

I wrote to Hy-gain/Telex and they were kind enough to send me the
instructions for the V2R but they have changed both the coil and the aluminum
tubing so the new dimensions are totally wrong for my antenna.

If one of you good souls out there has a set of assembly instructions and can
pick off the dimensions for me I would really appreciate it.  It is not
necessary to go to the trouble of making copies or anything like that.  A
list of dimensions will be more than adequate to get a basic setup from which
I can fine tune the thing.

A comment on the V2R: It is a surprisingly good antenna for a 2mtr vertical
and I have always been impressed with it's performance.

A reply here would be fine or you can email me at

[e-mail]

Tnx es 73

Dan Keefe  KS6Z


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:24 1996
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From: "DR. DAVE" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: I LIKE WIRE (HELP)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:11:46 -0400
Organization: COMPUTER DIAGNOSTICS
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I like playing with wire antenna's but don't know a lot about them. I
now am useing a ant made of 253 ft. of wire w/126ft. on both sides feed
with RG8 through a 4:1 balum. I wanted a antenna that would cover 160-10
meters. I use a MFJ 949c for a tuner. I can't use 300 or 450 feed line
because of kids and animals. Cable is laid underground to the tower. the
apex of the ant is 50ft off ground. I use it a lot on recieve and when
my friend comes down to Fl. from MD. he uses it a lot. Is there a way to
improve this ant with out a lot of expence? Also would I be better to
make a rhombic out of this? I have 5 acers to work with so there is a
lot of room. If I can make a rhombic how long would it have to be to
cover the freq of 10-160 meters? I am using 12ga. insulated wire now. I
have trees here but they are all about 20-30 ft. high.

                                                Thank you
                                                Dave
Some Day I will be able to talk on these freq.....


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:25 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ed Clegg  (w3loy))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: KT34XA has Hi swr on low power only
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:09:24 GMT
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[e-mail] (Lynn D. Osterbur) wrote:


>   A problem has developed with my KT34XA.  Running 100 watts into the
>antenna, I see about a 3:1 swr on 20M, 2:1 on 15M, and 1:1 on 10 Meters.
>  If I run 1kw into the antenna, the swr is beautiful on all bands.  If
>I then go back to 100 watts or less the swr is fine.  If I come back in
>an hour and try the antenna with 100 watts the swr is again high.
>I had the first driven element checked, and all hardware tightened. The
>antenna has been up for about 1.5 years. The problem started about 6 months
>ago.  After running 1 kw to the antenna, the swr is then fine with even
>4 watts.   It is always fine with 500 watts or more.

>Has anyone seen a similar problem?  Could the balun be a problem?  KLM
>says it is most likely to be in the outer jumper strap on one of the
>driven elements.    You comments welcome.  73   Lynn
>--
EITHER OR:
        You have a poor connection someplace in the system and it cures itself
at higher power.
        OR:
        You're SWR metering is level sensitive and giving wrong results at
either low power or high power. Usually most devices are more apt to
be more correct at higher levels.



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:17:41 GMT
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On 12 Aug 1996 11:53:40 -0400, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>Hi Jesse,
>
>I'd like to see a national shootout, or East, Central and West shootouts
>going. Heck, the CB guys do it, they actually have a leg up on the Hams on
>this one!
>
>These is now way to advance common knowlege of mobile without such events.
>Without direct comparisons under controlled conditions we just fall back
>into personal opinions and enless debate.
>
>
>By the way, on the way back from the racetrack last night (a two hour
>drive) I worked  30 Europeans, 14 on 40m and 16 on 80m.
>Thats wonderful!  Most of my mobile dx is worked on 80m.  I really get a kick
out of busting some of the pileups.  I do run 1kw with a homebrew
solid state linear.
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jesse
>Touhey (W6KKT)) writes:
>
>>Second note, different subject:  I wish it was possible to compare my
>>123' dipole (both ends up 100'), fed with 200' of 600ohm #11 open wire
>>feeders  against your 80m vertical system.  The dipole (in it's broad
>>side directions) compares favorably (low angle paths)with some
>>excellent "four squares" here in California. Your results with the
>>your dipole on 80m is different than mine.
>
>My 80 meter dipole compares favorably with four squares also (as near as I
>can tell), perhaps because most of them are installed with marginal ground
>systems. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. My 80 meter dipole
>doesn't work poorly at all. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
>
>Im just amazed to find a 35 ft top loaded vertical works about the same or
>a bit better at long distances. I'm sure if the dipole was up 150 or 180
>ft it would beat the vertical. When I did 160 meter tests several years
>ago, I compared a 1/4 wl tower to a dipole up a few hundred ft. When the
>dipole was at 350 ft, it always beat the 1/4 wl vert by a noticable
>margin. When the dipole was at 250 ft, the vertical almost always won.
>
>All my verticals have large CONVENTIONAL radial systems.
>
>73 Tom
Tom, that is very interesting.  What is the ground conductivity at
your qth?  It must be excellent.  It is my understanding , a vert not
only needs a extensive radial system , but excellent ground
conductivity to best a high dipole at low angles...???
Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 03:09:15 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
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On 12 Aug 1996 21:38:26 -0400, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jesse
>Touhey (W6KKT)) writes:
>
>>Tom, that is very interesting.  What is the ground conductivity at
>>your qth?  It must be excellent.  It is my understanding , a vert not
>>only needs a extensive radial system , but excellent ground
>>conductivity to best a high dipole at low angles...???
>>Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT
>
>As near as I can guess, between one and 4 mS /m.......not very good!
>
>My system is pretty good with all the wire around here. Where does your
>understanding come from Jesse? Hear-say, models, or on the air
>comparisons?
>
>I have never seen anyone on 160 with a h<150 ft horizontal antenna beat a
>vertical with a moderately good ground system when they are from the same
>area. The only high horizontal antennas I've ever seen compared were the
>antennas I installed at a BC station. I noticed a big improvement going
>from a few hundred feet to over three hundred feet up. At lower heights
>the 1/4 wl vertical usually won, but at 5/8 wl the horizontal became
>clearly superior.
>
>I'm not so sure about 80 because I spend less time there, so I've only
>observed a few  comparisons of other people. I've done dozens of A-B tests
>comparing my two antennas. I'm as fascinated by it as you are :-) , but
>not surprised when I think of the results on 160.
>
>I wonder if anyone else with a good vertical in a clear location ever
>A-B'ed against a horizontal antenna up 120-140 ft on 80?
>
>73 Tom
Hi Tom, I don't work 160 all my operation is on 80 meters (3795)  at
sunrise. 3 stations have 4squares , several with full size verts and
one or two with 3el beams.  My dipole in the broadside direction into
Japan on many, many tests has been exactly even with 4 squares.
We do these comparisons quite frequently.  On EZNEC  with the dipole
up 100' it also compares quite well at 21degrees with the four squares
over good to poor ground.  Move the verts or 4sqs near salt water and
those antennas become a different story.  I know you understand
antenna's better than I but at this qth the dipole is a real dx
talker. Into ZS country I get the same signal reports as a Force12 2el
up 80'.  I realize this is all subjective and not on a range,  but
from my experience, High dipoles (.5 to 1 wL) have done very well
against verts at this qth.
Good Luck on your new mobile antenna.  Joe Jennings tried using
vacuume variable switching years ago. I don't know how it turned out
though.
One dosn't need a FS meter on a test range to get an idea  how
efficient their 80 meter antenna is doing.  Just measure the base
impedance  (without any matching) with a bridge.  A non capacity hat
bugcatcher will be around 17 ohms, hustler-33 ohms  and excellent
contest antenna (with large capacity hats/ hi-Q coils) close to 10
ohms  (as you know, the name of the game is to eliminate coil loss
resistance).  This is an excellent way to compare different antenna's,
coils etc using  a single platform.
The above feed point impedances will change over different ground. It
is a good starting point.  I use the GR1606A and  drive it with a
little Autek RF-1 "analyst" and use the transceiver in the automobile
to null.  Really works great.  Using the Autek by itself will work
just fine too, especially if a 20 or 30 ohm resistor is put in series
with it.
Really enjoy your threads.
73, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: 12 Aug 1996 21:38:26 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jesse
Touhey (W6KKT)) writes:

>Tom, that is very interesting.  What is the ground conductivity at
>your qth?  It must be excellent.  It is my understanding , a vert not
>only needs a extensive radial system , but excellent ground
>conductivity to best a high dipole at low angles...???
>Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT

As near as I can guess, between one and 4 mS /m.......not very good!

My system is pretty good with all the wire around here. Where does your
understanding come from Jesse? Hear-say, models, or on the air
comparisons?

I have never seen anyone on 160 with a h<150 ft horizontal antenna beat a
vertical with a moderately good ground system when they are from the same
area. The only high horizontal antennas I've ever seen compared were the
antennas I installed at a BC station. I noticed a big improvement going
from a few hundred feet to over three hundred feet up. At lower heights
the 1/4 wl vertical usually won, but at 5/8 wl the horizontal became
clearly superior.

I'm not so sure about 80 because I spend less time there, so I've only
observed a few  comparisons of other people. I've done dozens of A-B tests
comparing my two antennas. I'm as fascinated by it as you are :-) , but
not surprised when I think of the results on 160.

I wonder if anyone else with a good vertical in a clear location ever
A-B'ed against a horizontal antenna up 120-140 ft on 80?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:50:12 GMT
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On 9 Aug 1996 06:33:14 GMT, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>[e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:
>>You challanged my statement when I said I thought the antenna did
>>poorly.  I stand by that.
>
>Dang Jesse, looks like our entire disagreement is over personal style
>and definitions of "poorly" and "neglible difference".
>
>>Why one would drive 300 miles to contest
>>with what  they call a  "Kluge"  baffles me,
>
>Anybody who knows me well will tell you that's perfectly typical.
>Why anyone would "sweat blood and tears" for one more watt of
>radiated power baffles *me*. It is rare to the extreme when the
>1.5dB difference between my kluge and the bugcatcher would make
>or break a mobile QSO. And I don't like conditions that marginal.
>
>Three unmatched pieces of antenna out of my junkbox beat a
>screwdriver. That's *real* hamming. Makes me happy as a pig in
>you-know-what.
>
>Wait till you see what I show up with next year. You will need
>a new category labeled anti-conventional. :-)
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
>My ex-wife says that Texas style is an oxymoron.
>
>
Cecil,  I have a feeling your ex-wife  would have something to say
about "hard headed texans too" :-).  I will gladly drive to Arizona
and set up the test equipment for you and the Arizona "Mobileers",
on the condition  that you set your sights higher (more in line with
your capabilities)  I have fifty years of high power mobeling behind
me.  At every "shootout" I learn something new.  Give us "Californians

Mobileers" something to shoot at. :-)   Just promise  you won't
strangle me with one of your non tuner, tuner line sections :-).  You
have the Challange.
Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:32 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: linear loaded dipole
Date: 16 Aug 1996 02:40:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>>Check out the latest "Communications Quarterly". IMO a fractal antenna
>>probably has less linear loading losses per unit length than some other
>>linear loading techniques - and they look cool.

>Folding an antenna like a Japanese napkin is a waste of time.

Hi Tom, fractal folding keeps the elements farther apart than other
linear loading techniques so it promises to be the best way to
fold an antenna (assuming someone wants to fold their antenna).
The external antenna will probably disappear from cellphones
pretty soon to be replaced by internal PC board folded antennas.
Fractal evolution has lead to plants putting the most leaf area
in a given volume. That's akin to the problem hams need to solve
with limited space antennas. Have you read Chip Cohen's articles?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:32 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Thomas Mahanna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LORAN -- 10 MHz ?
Date: 12 Aug 1996 01:21:41 -0400
Organization: ZIPNET.NET
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: I just got a used LORAN reciever, but it has no documentation and worst

: 10 MHz signals from towers.  If so, (I'll look into it a little more

LORAN operates on 100Khz, dude. Not 10 Mhz. Look it up.

-Tom



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:36 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LORAN -- 10 MHz ?
Date: 12 Aug 1996 14:43:29 GMT
Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin
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In article <4uh8og$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (William J. Skellenger)
writes:

>
>Hey gang:
>
>I just got a used LORAN reciever, but it has no documentation and worst
>of all, no antenna.  Upon disassembly I determined which leads in the
>4-pin power connector were actually power leads, so I've been able to
>get the display to come on.  It appears as though it's "searching" for
>it's location, although I'm not sure if LORAN needs calibration or not.
>
>Anyway, the real question is:  I think this thing operates by recieving
>10 MHz signals from towers.  If so, (I'll look into it a little more
>tonight) what antenna (design-wise) would work best for this
>application?
>
>I won't be using this unit for anythign serious, probably just something
>to play with.  Got it REAL cheap.
>
>Looking forward to some feedback.  Thanks in advance!
>
>--Bill

LORAN works by receiving on 100kHz.  Short pulses are received sequentially
from at least three base stations and the time differences are used to compute

the position relative to the base stations.  If the positions of the base
stations are known then the actual position of the receiver can be found.

The best antenna would be a long-wire (>10 meters) or some type of low frquenc
y
active antenna.


Dr. Gerry Butler,  CEng. MIEE. [[e-mail]]
TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland
Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
[ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ]


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Flanders)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LORAN -- 10 MHz ?
Date: 13 Aug 1996 19:47:57 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments @ Lewisville
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Bill -
 First things first.  What Loran receiver do you have?  Is it Loran A
or Loran C.  Loran A is now defunct (gladly). It was in our 160 meter
band.  Loran C is 100KHz.  If your in Dublin, I think the nearest
master station is on the Island of Sylt.  If you need more info, I'll
get it from my brother, he installed them and was the CO at Sylt
about 1972 - 1976.
Jim W0oog/5
In article <4unfuh$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>In article <4uh8og$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (William J.
Skellenger)
>writes:
>
>>
>>Hey gang:
>>
>>I just got a used LORAN reciever, but it has no documentation and
worst
>>of all, no antenna.  Upon disassembly I determined which leads in the
>>4-pin power connector were actually power leads, so I've been able to
>>get the display to come on.  It appears as though it's "searching"
for
>>it's location, although I'm not sure if LORAN needs calibration or
not.
>>
>>Anyway, the real question is:  I think this thing operates by
recieving
>>10 MHz signals from towers.  If so, (I'll look into it a little more
>>tonight) what antenna (design-wise) would work best for this
>>application?
>>
>>I won't be using this unit for anythign serious, probably just
something
>>to play with.  Got it REAL cheap.
>>
>>Looking forward to some feedback.  Thanks in advance!
>>
>>--Bill
>
>LORAN works by receiving on 100kHz.  Short pulses are received
sequentially
>from at least three base stations and the time differences are used to
compute
>the position relative to the base stations.  If the positions of the
base
>stations are known then the actual position of the receiver can be
found.
>
>The best antenna would be a long-wire (>10 meters) or some type of low
frquency
>active antenna.
>
>
>Dr. Gerry Butler,  CEng. MIEE. [[e-mail]]
>TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin
2,Ireland
>Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
>[ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ]



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:38 1996
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From: [e-mail] (William J. Skellenger)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: LORAN-C revisited
Date: 12 Aug 1996 16:08:08 -0400
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Lines: 36
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NNTP-Posting-User: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Okay.  Today (for those who have followed this saga) I took a big spool
of bailing wire and ran it across my yard.  Plugged one end into this
LORAN-C receiver and plugged in some coordinates for Gladstone, MI that
I picked up off of the net somewhere.  It grabbed a signal instantly.
I disconnected the power then, and input the GRI as it requested.  I
entered 8970, for the Great Lakes chain, and waited as it searched for a
pair of signals.  Boom, it found them and gave me the longitude/latitude
of my position, which varied a few degrees from the one on the net.  No
biggie, it's probably due to my position IN the town.

How cool!  It has a bunch of features that you can't get to easily...
LIke you hit a key called "extra" and then enter a function number to
activate that particular function.  (i.e. [NEXT] then [0]-[0] will turn
the backlighting on)

I was quite impressed, but am still having problems decyphering the LCD.
There is some sort of signal strength bar or something, but since it's a
seven-segment type, it looks strange:

"00cc" or "0c00" or "cccc" not exactly sure how that works.

My other problem is going to be a mobile or marine antenna for this
unit.  I'll call the company right now and see if they have anything
available.

Thanks for all the help here, gang!

--Bill




--
                      Bill Skellenger      [e-mail]
                        Michigan Technological University
                         http://www.me.mtu.edu/~wjskelle


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:40 1996
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From: "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile Shootout, was Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:41:36 -0500
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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C. J. Hawley wrote:
>
> W8JI Tom wrote:
>
> > Hi Jesse,
> >
> > I'd like to see a national shootout, or East, Central and West shootouts
> > going. Heck, the CB guys do it, they actually have a leg up on the Hams on
> > this one!
>
> Tom,
>
> The next midwest mobile shootout is on Tuesday, September 17. We have had a
> half dozen of these in the last two years. Hang around 3875 KHz after 9 PM
> Central and ask someone for details.
>
> Chuck, KE9UW

Sorry, I forgot to say that it is held at the Mounds State Park in Anderson,
Indiana. Starts at about 10 or 11 in the morning.



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile Shootout, was Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 16:44:44 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
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On Tue, 13 Aug 1996 07:19:53 -0500, "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>W8JI Tom wrote:
>>
>> In article <[e-mail]>, "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
>> writes:
>>
>> >> Tom,
>> >>
>> >> The next midwest mobile shootout is on Tuesday, September 17. We have
>> had a
>> >> half dozen of these in the last two years. Hang around 3875 KHz after 9
>> PM
>> >> Central and ask someone for details.
>> >>
>> >> Chuck, KE9UW
>> >
>> >Sorry, I forgot to say that it is held at the Mounds State Park in
>> Anderson,
>> >Indiana. Starts at about 10 or 11 in the morning.
>> >
>>
>> What frequency is the test on, and how do they measure the FS?
>>
>> 73 Tom
>
>We transmit 100 watts at 3875 KHz and receive on a small loop about 300 feet
>away. The receiving loop signal is detected and read on a digital dc
>millivoltmeter. We use one of the strongest mobiles to transmit 100, 50, and
10
>watts to get some kind of calibration. The results of this are fairly linear
>and give some idea of just how the FS varies between the various antennas. We

>take some pains to dismantle all the resonant systems in the far parking lot
>and have only one car in the general area of the test. The measurement
>techniques have been evolving and still leave a lot to be desired, but even
>though, we have still learned a lot about what coil, etc. results in a better

>signal. Everyone has a nice time, visiting with hams that they talk to often,

>enjoying the open air and the excellent state park, and learning something
>about how their efforts compare to others in terms of FS. We also do a 160
>Meter test on 1940 KHz. There are only a half dozen or so of us testing there
,
>but again the results are informative giving relative FS to see what seems to

>work better. I look for more systems on 160M this time.
>Then we go to one buffet or another in Anderson and see who can eat the most.
>
>Chuck, KE9UW
>
Hi Chuck, my system may not be the best, but when it comes to
"chow"after the meet,not many can keep up with me!

The system I use for FS measurements was designed by WB6HQk (senior
test equipment designer) and myself.  Except for a few refinements,
its simular to the one you use.
The metering system in use incorporates a voltage regulated,
temperature compensated IC that combines two hf log amplifiers which
demonstrates log10 to linear current output, with 1.5db accuracy over
a 90 db range. Calibration measurements conducted within the 90db
range uncovered a 10db "window" with a linear accuracy close to 0.1db.
This 10db "window" is used for all measurements.  A preamp and step
annenuator between the 50 ohm 6" magnetic "loopstick" antenna and  log
amp afford ample gain and control of received signal  within the
metering system "window".  A 10" meter and digital meter monitor the
output.  The meter readings are directly  correlated in db....A fs
reading of 62.5 when running 50 watts will have a fs reading of 52.5
when the power is lowered to 5 watts.  Interpolation to .1db is the
norm.  Because of the sensitivity of the system all "shootouts" are
conducted  between .25 and .5 miles.  The magnetic "loopstick" is
mounted on a 10' pole about 15' from the metering system.  There is no

noticeable difference in fs when someone or a car comes near the
"loopstick".  That's the nice thing about using a magnetic loopstick
as opposed to a regular whip pickup device.
K5DUTs setup is very much like yours except they have the added
refinement of a wireless tv camera focused on the meter and
transmitting back to a tv in a cooled hanger, where everyone can
immediately see the results!  Maybe that's my next step?
Good Luck, and thanks for the information.  We need more of these
"shootouts"!
73, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:42 1996
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From: "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile Shootout, was Re: Kurt, help us please!
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:15:00 -0500
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Lines: 55
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webbte wrote:
>
> Chuck - it would great if you guys/gals could post the results
> here. There was an article, I believe in QST last year, that
> talked about a similar shootout in CA. The results were very
> interesting. Let us all know how it comes out.
>
> tnx, de Ted / w4NE (ex-AC4CS)
> >=========="C. J. Hawley", 8/12/96==========
> >
> >W8JI Tom wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <[e-mail]>, "C. J. Hawley"
> <[e-mail]>
> >> writes:
> >>
> >> >> Tom,
> >> >>
> >> >> The next midwest mobile shootout is on Tuesday, September
> >17. We have
> >> had a
> >> >> half dozen of these in the last two years. Hang around 3875
> >KHz after 9
> >> PM
> >> >> Central and ask someone for details.
> >> >>
> >> >> Chuck, KE9UW
> >> >
> >> >Sorry, I forgot to say that it is held at the Mounds State Park in
> >> Anderson,
> >> >Indiana. Starts at about 10 or 11 in the morning.

OK. My father-in-law Ben, W9JQA has written up the last one in June and
due to a computer crash, etc. he is going to wait til the one in Sept,
write it up too, get some pictures this time, and send it off to QST. I
will get the file and post the results. On a scale of 10 the bugcatchers
are about an 8, the screwdrivers about a 6, and the hamsticks about 3 or
2. If you have a capacity hat and the best of the best coils, you might
get a 9. My best coil for 80M is AWG10, 3.5 inches in dia, about 14 inches
long, 100uH, and I use with no hat, 4 foot mast on the bumper and whip to
about 13feet overall. I'm as loud in the car w/100 watts as I am at home
with a dipole at 40 feet, ladder line, balun, L network tuner, and 100
watts. Bugcatcher coils that are made in the hiQ configuration (about half
as tall as their diameter) don't do as well as those which are 3 times as
long as they are in diameter (capacitive coupling to the mast and whip?).
The longer the mast under the coil, the better. The longer the whole
antenna, the better. The larger dia wire is better to a point where things
like tubing, etc. just make the coil so large that some other factors come
in like capacitive coupling to the wrong things, etc. that hurt the
performance. Still mulling this stuff over. 160M seems about 4 times
harder to do. We're just getting started on that.

Chuck, KE9UW




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:43 1996
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From: [e-mail] (chuck sudds)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mosley <=> Force12 <=> KLM <=> Higain
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:57:49 GMT
Organization: Probe Technology Internet Services
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <4ur1eq$[e-mail]>
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lijnencentrum <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I`m thinking to setup a new HF tower
>The tower will be about 100 foot

>Now i`m trying to compare some antenna`s by specifications and reports
>The idea is to have 40M 20M 17M 15M 12M and 10M on 1 tower

>I`m thingking of the following configuration`s

>KT34XA + 2 el mono on 40M (no 12 & 17m)

Hi Walter

I recently installed a KLM KT34XA antenna and it works fantastic! By
the way, it *does* load up just fine on 12 and 17 meters through my
antenna tuner!  There are no traps on this antenna but I must warn you
that it is very large and quite heavy (75lbs) with 9ftsq windloading.

>Force 12 5BA + 2 el mono on 40m

>Hygain TH11 + 2 el mono on 40M

>Force12 type ??? 10,15,20,40m + 12/17 ele beam

>Mosley Pro 67c

>Mosley Pro 96

All of the HyGain antennas use traps, which I personally do not care
for BUT their antennas work quite well.

I used a Mosley TA-33 for over 25 years and it stood up very well. It
was built very well but again, it had the traps. The Pro series
antennas are again very large and very heavy.

The Force 12 antennas do seem to work well but do not seem to be as
mechanically strong as some of the others. I guess time will tell.

>If someone can give me a reply what will be the best setup
>including stacking distance, possible interaction, mechanical spec`s
>True or fals manufacture spec`s etc...
>Looking for the best solution
>73 Walter ON4BCB

Well, the best solution for me, may not be the best solution for you.
I dislike traps very much and this was a big factor for me when it
came to choosing an antenna. Also, since my tower is not a crank-up, I
wanted something that would withstand the bad Midwestern winters that
we experience here in Iowa. The KLM was my choice and so far, I am
very happy with it. It has hundreds of parts that you must assemble
and it does take quite some time to get it all put together but the
final result is worth it.

Good luck in your quest for the perfect antenna, Walter

73,


=======================================================
CHUCK SUDDS - Certified Avian Specialist
Beakers Exotics  http://www.probe.net/~beakers/
[phone]   [e-mail]
=======================================================




From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:44 1996
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From: Bethanie <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: need help with 2mtr antenna
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:24:38 -0700
Organization: Sierra-Net
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Just bought (2) 11 ele. yagi antennas without reference data sheets.
What is the best spacing for these antennas to get the most gain. I
think they might be KLM antennas. Please E-mail to [e-mail].
Thanks donald N6XAZ


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:45 1996
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From: "James Van Houten" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec
Subject: New Ham Radio Discussion Area on the Web!
Date: 13 Aug 1996 04:32:42 GMT
Organization: J. D. Van Houten & Associates
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <01bb88d0$b49bb8e0$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23589 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16677 rec.radio.amateur.dx:194 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16400 rec.radio.amateur.misc:105898 rec.radio.amateur.policy:35863 rec.radio.amateur.space:7381

Hello All,

Will keep it short and to the point.  There is a new resource for Ham radio
topics.  It is on the web.  Come on over and visit
http://www.coronetsec.com/hamradio.  All hamradio topics welcome.  Hope to
see you there soon.

Jim
KA3TTU

ps.  Don't forget to tell all of your non-newsgroup readin' friends!!  :-)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
James Van Houten     http://www.coronetsec.com/hamradio
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Old "Shootout" Info
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:00:00 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 4
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

1960 (August) & 1961 (July)  QST, 1995 (Sept) QST ,WorldRadio (July
1995),
Can anyone add to this list?
73, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:47 1996
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From: "DR. DAVE" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quick Yagi
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:04:00 -0400
Organization: COMPUTER DIAGNOSTICS
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I am looking for a program called QuickYagi. Has any one seen or heard
of this program? I uused to have it and the hard drive crashed and I
lost it. If you know of this prg please let me know where I can find it
via E-mail or a post in this new group....

                                     Dave


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:48 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Random longwire questions (again)
Date: 9 Aug 1996 23:53:03 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4uh12v$[e-mail]>
References: <4ub8rf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4ub8rf$[e-mail]>, Scott Ryan <[e-mail]>
writes:

>
>1. Do I need a earth ground on my longwire (it uses insulated wire
>lead-in), and if so, how do I ground it?  It seems that a ground from the

>longwire to earth ground would "short" the antenna.
>
>

Someone else answered the lightning question. The answer to this question
is yes, you need some type of ground.

The transmitter needs to force current into the longwire, and the only way
to do this is to "push" against something else. Without a ground the case
of the transmitter, the house wiring, the other equipment, and even you
become part of the antenna system.

The same is true for receiving, the antenna is part of the system along
with everything thing else near or connected to the receiver.

So yes, you need a ground....and preferably a pretty good one. It attaches
to the tuner, transmitter, or receiver chassis...not the antenna.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:49 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!ennews!enuxsa.eas.asu.edu!vrenios
From: [e-mail] (Alexander Vrenios)
Subject: Spiral radial?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:49:58 GMT
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: enuxsa.eas.asu.edu
Lines: 20

Hi,

   I _believe_ that burried radials simply improve the
quality of the ground below a ground-mounted multi-band
vertical antenna. (That's why the radials need not be cut
to any exact lengths.) Could we then simplify installation
by having only one "radial" in the form of a spiral around
the antenna's base? Assuming the spiral has to extend to a
radius of 1/4 wave on the lowest frequency, what should the
pitch be? Can this be steadily increasing - perhaps keeping
with some rule of thumb similar to the holes in a parabolic
dish: no larger than 1/8 wave at the desired frequency? The
pitch could increase steadily as the radius so the wave/8
value would be a function of the radius as well.

   The last time I put in a ground mounted vertical I had
the biggest problem soldering all those radials together.
If this idea is valid, it means I only have to solder one :-)

73, Alex - kx9i


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rob Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Storm took roof and antennas in Phoenix.
Date: 15 Aug 1996 08:56:01 -0700
Organization: Screw the EPA, they screw us.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <4uvhah$[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: @198.68.46.198 (n7ory)
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Last night around 6:45, a severe Thunderstorm rolled into the valley
from the east. First with a large dust cloud, then with an even more
devistating wall of rain and severe winds.

I was operating 6 meters FM when I noticed the wind had picked up out
side. I had a quick look, but didn't seem too bad. I had seen my
antenna system go through weather like that without a scratch before
so I wasn't concerned. So back at the radio, I started to finish my
conversation when the power went out. No problem, I said to myself. I
have enough battery power to last for a couple of days, I'll survive..

Then...  Whooosh..Crack...Thud! "What the hell was that?" All my
radios went silent. I figured I had lost my tower, and that it was
probably a permanent fixture of someone elses property.. I peeked out
front, and to my surprise, half of my back roof was hanging off the
front part of my house. Shingles all over the carport and lawn.
Even though the rain was comming down so hard that you could not see
accross the street, I ran out and looked back at my poor house.

The back roof lifted up and folded over my AC unit. The newly
liberated roofing grabbed 2 of my antennas and dragged them to the
front yard, and snapped guy wires from my push-up pole that I had
lowered the night before (thank goodness). I ran back into the house,
soaking wet.

I went back to the radio and tried to answer a few emergency calls on
2M, but the 911 system was flooded with callers again and could not
forward traffic (busy signals or all circuits busy). People reporting
huge trees in the road, powerlines and poles down, and reports of
severe home damage kept the repeater busy between controller
notifications that the repeater was on battery and the voltage was
low..

When the storm calmed down, I braved the frequent lightning to have a
look up on the roof. My 10m AR-10 was yanked off it's pole by the
coax, which was shredded. My AR-6 6 meter ringo on my tower was
snapped in half, and my AR-270 2m/440 antenna had the match twisted
around when the roof grabbed the coax. The roffing and materials from
the back side of the house must have just lifted up, got caught on
some coax or guy wires and folded over hitting my AC unit.

The power remained off for the rest of the evening and had to run the
alarmclock off the invertor. When I got up this morning, the damage
looked even worse.

I guess it'll be a while before I operate my favorite bands again.

Rob Neff (N7ORY)



From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:51 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!news.netserv.com!fsc.fujitsu.com!agate!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news.tek.com!samuelpe!sam.peterson
From: [e-mail] (Sam Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: VHF Antenna for Ford Aerostar???
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:43:37 LOCAL
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.65.28.175
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B.5]

I need an antenna solution for a 1993 Ford Aerostar.  I will be parking this
under a car port so I need something that has a easy way of removing the
vertical element, or limited height OR perhaps something mounted on the rear
that would not come under the car port at all.  ANY suggestions appreciated!!!

Oh, yeah, I will be TX on 2m and 70cm, receive aircraft AM, 2m and 70cm.

TIA and 73s,

KC5BES
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Aug 16 15:31:52 1996
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From: Jeff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF Antenna for Ford Aerostar???
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 10:49:29 -0700
Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: Sam Peterson <[e-mail]>

Sam Peterson wrote:
>
> I need an antenna solution for a 1993 Ford Aerostar.  I will be parking this
> under a car port so I need something that has a easy way of removing the
> vertical element, or limited height OR perhaps something mounted on the rear
> that would not come under the car port at all.  ANY suggestions appreciated!
!!
>
> Oh, yeah, I will be TX on 2m and 70cm, receive aircraft AM, 2m and 70cm.
>
> TIA and 73s,
>
> KC5BES
> [e-mail]

Sam,

I have a 95 Ford Escort wagon and I use a Larson NMO 2/70. It really
works great, I can plug the mobil radio in and I have been able to work
into repeaters over 80 Miles away. What I did was have them commercially
install the mount on the top of my car.  When I want to leave it for a
long time or go under low places I just unscrew it from the mount and
put it behind the seat.

Good Luck
Jayson, N7URO
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:43 1996
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From: Steve Lewis <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2M antenna mount
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:45:48 -0400
Organization: NetUSA1 Inc.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I am not sure who made it but a few years back I saw a gutter mount
that had a push button on the side so you could lay the antenna down. If
anyone can help me find the manufacturer or a supplier please let me
know. Thanks in Advance 73 de KB9DVM Steve
--
 [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:45 1996
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From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 6-meter mobile antennas
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:21:26 -0700
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <X5960814102049@155.157.28.37>
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NR3O, Chris Smith wrote:
>
> I found my Hustler 2 meter 5/8-wave mag mount resonant on 6.
> Unfortunately, I had just bought a 6 meter hamstick which is
> a good choice and widely available.

SIX METER ANTENNA EXPERMENTATION and EXPERIENCE

It is interesting that the standard base load 2 meter antenna from
cushcraft / AS / hustler /  MFJ ... is actually a beter 6 meter antenna
than the base load.  Better radiation and better band width.  The 2
meter 5/8 trimmed to 6 meters is sort of the standard in California.

For interest I have been playing with the COMET dual band 6 and 10 meter
antenna.  1/2 wave end fed on 6 and 1/4 wave on 10.  Using a spectrum
anayser as the reciever 1/2 mile away,  a side by side test was done on
a cushcraft 2 meter 5/8 trimmed as a 6 meter 1/4 wave mounted near
center over an aluminum shell on a pickup truck vs the comet mounted
high on the side.  The commet was 1 to 5 db better depending on the
angle of the vehicle.  The COMET is fairly narrow band (around 2 MHz).

MAXRAD makes a 6 meter base load antenna with about half the antenna
length in a thick radiator with about 1/2 a stinger.  This antenna
performes on a par with the 2 meter 5/8 cut as a six quarter wavebut
very broad band.  They advertise 6 MHz < 2:1 SWR and sweep tests seem to
support that claim.  The trick is having part of the radiator be very
thick.  This antenna of course is significantly heavier than the base
load and thin whip model.  It also has significantly more wind load
which requires a good mount for use at highway speed.


That is what I have learned playing for the last year.

Bill Harwood
AB6DY


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:45 1996
From: [e-mail] (Raymond A. Brown)
Subject: Re: 6-meter mobile antennas
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <[e-mail]> <X5960814102049@155.157.28.37>
Distribution: usa
Lines: 13
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 BETA-950824-color PL0]
NNTP-Posting-Host: gxl.woodtech.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Aug 96 19:54:52 GMT
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.paonline.com!news3.paonline.com!not-for-mail

NR3O, Chris Smith ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I found my Hustler 2 meter 5/8-wave mag mount resonant on 6.

  I've heard that most of the 2m antennas _do_ work on 6m, but with 0
gain (as opposed to the 3dB gain on the 2m itself).

: Unfortunately, I had just bought a 6 meter hamstick which is
: a good choice and widely available.

  A who? Y'all referin' to a 6m-sized J-pole, by any chance? :-)

                                                _Ray_   KB0STN



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:46 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 96 08:06:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4uuheh$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 25

ML> There are differences in gain during the adjustment process, but if
ML> things are set up anywhere near close to start with, it is the nulls
ML> take your time getting adjusted.

How did you know you had differences in gain?  A 4square can be
pretty badly maladjusted and still the gain will be affected
only by a few tenths of a dB.  As Roy said, gain is a process of
vectorial addition, so small individual element differences in
phase or magnitude are usually immediately compensated by
off-setting changes in the other elements.

But f/b is a vectorial subtraction process and now changes
in phase or amplitude to any element have large effects.
I have found that only by use of a dual trace CRT displaying
phase and amplitude of two elements can exact subtraction for
best F/B be obtained. Alas, this is difficult to attain
simultaneously for all four directions because of the extreme
sensitivity of this vectorial subtraction!  It's a frustrating
process because nature keeps finding a new solution to the set
of simultaneous equations represented by the the four elements
for any change you make to one element.
 //
  k2bt

 * RM 1.3 02583 * Saint (n)  A dead sinner, revised and edited.


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:47 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!main.Germany.EU.net!Frankfurt.Germany.EU.net!howland.erols.net!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!InfoNET.st-johns.nf.ca!cad1034
From: [e-mail] (Frank Burke)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AM Antenna
Date: 19 Aug 1996 03:29:46 GMT
Organization: St. John's InfoNET
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4v8n3a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: infonet.st-johns.nf.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Auto radios have a rf amp/preamp stage which is often missing in home
stereos and radios. Your stereo may not be sensitive enough to receive
the station satisfactorily with any practical antenna. Maybe you could
set up an auto radio with a power supply in the house, so a simple whip
or reasonable length of wire would do the job.
Good Luck.


--
Frank J. Burke
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:48 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!buffnet2.buffnet.net!news3.buffnet.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!dawn.mmm.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Gary Hosler - KN0Z)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antennas for Chevy Suburban
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:41:40 GMT
Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN  55144-1000 US
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4v9udg$[e-mail]>
References: <4v3brb$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Kevin Shea) wrote:

>Just got a new Suburban and I'd like to put a couple of
>antennas on it.  I'm thinking of a cell antenna and an
>antenna for a 2meter/440 radio and perhaps something for
>an ICOM 706.

>The Owner's Manual not to add radios without checking
>with the dealer.(Will he be really able to help?) Also I
>seem to remember seeing sothing about airbags being an
>issuue with ham radios.

>Any ideas, tips would be great!

>Thanks,

>Kevin N9JKP

>****************************************
>* Kevin G. Shea  N9JKP                 *
>* 4460 Dahmen Pass                     *
>* Cross Plains, WI 53528 USA           *
>* 608.789.4326,voice; 608.798.1747,fax *
>****************************************

Not sure just how much help I can offer Kevin.  I have a "91"
Surburban and run an ICOM dualbander.  I originally drilled a 3/4"
hole just above the dome light and mounted a 2M/70CM "gain" antenna
that was just about 5 feet tall.  It worked GREAT but I had to
remember to tilt it over whenever I put the truck in the garage.
Twice I forgot!  The replacement bases for the antenna ran about $37
and the sick feeling at seeing the slight "tweak" to the roofline I
can't put a price on.  I have since gone to a cell phone look-a-like
(less than unity gain on 2M) that works well.  I can hit most
repeaters within 40-50 miles and although it will still hit when
backing in the garage, it no longer alters the roofline.  I firmly
believe that the VHF/UHF antennas belong on the roof and not via
magmount.  The cell look-a-like is only about 10" tall and even allows
me to enter a few of the downtown parking ramps (although I still need
to be cautious).  A surburban (especially with 31X10.50's) is a very
tall vehicle.  Just use a bit of common sense when making your final
selection of antennas.

        73 de KN0Z  Gary

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employe
r.


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:49 1996
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From: Maude Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Attic Antennas
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:17:17 -0700
Organization: -
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: Tim Lokrantz <[e-mail]>

Tim Lokrantz wrote:
>
> I've been installing a couple of antennas (random wire, 1/2
> dipole) in my attic - due to limited lot size and sub-division code does
> not allow external antennas. I noticed the builders roughed-in several
> outlets, dispersed throughout the attic.
>         My novice question is: Could I use the the bare ground wire, on
> one of the outlets, to ground my antennas?

Why not ? Try that and see what will happend.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:53 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Graham Seale)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 00:35:16 GMT
Lines: 29
Distribution: world
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References: <4uvac6$[e-mail]> <4v0q5l$[e-mail]>
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In message <4v0q5l$[e-mail]> W8JI  Tom wrote:


> I did the same thing Cecil, until I discovered my coax would arc right
> through the jacket to the towers leg!
>
> I use baluns to prevent fires.

Hmm.. my first balun was almost the *cause* of a fire.

A coax is in principle no different from a balanced line in that the
forward current will equal the return current, and a current probe
clipped on will show only the common mode component (very little).
Using coax does not suddenly guarantee feeder radiation from common.

In practice, the coax outer will interact capacitively with the
surroundings in a way denied to the centre conductor because of the
unequal physical construction. Thus balanced line, with each leg
equal in coupling opportunity, has a better immunity to common mode
currents. Also in practice, a coax kept clear of other objects can
remain substantially free of common mode problems. For me, the
clincher is that the loss in coax compared to balanced is too high to
allow tuned feeder operation. If the SWR is going to be 5:1, I want
balanced!

Regards all

--
Graham


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:54 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 17:40:27 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4v2bo4$[e-mail]>
References: <4uu442$[e-mail]> <4v15b9$[e-mail]> <4v1gs5$[e-mail]>
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In article <4v1gs5$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail](Anthony Severdia) wrote:

>    AW, c'mon Tom!  This explanation is very obtuse!  I think you can
>do better than this.  Please explain how outer sheath currents, if
>there are any, are created in a perfectly Zo matched situation.  From
>the antenna?  _Maybe_  but HOW from a feed line perpendicular to the
>antenna angle?

It has been explained in detail in "Some Aspects of the Balun Problem", by
Walt Maxwell, W2DU, QST, March, 1983, p. 38, and "Baluns: What They Do and
How They Do It", in the ARRL Antenna Compendium, Vol. 1, p. 157.

Very briefly,

  -- The current on the outside of the inner conductor of the coax feedline
is equal and opposite the current on the inside of the outer conductor.
This is because there is no net field inside the shield.

  -- All the current on the center conductor flows onto one leg of the
dipole. However, the current on the inside of the outer conductor has two
paths: the other side of the dipole, and the outside of the shield. How
much goes each way is determined by the relative impedances. For example,
if the coax is about a half wavelength to ground, the impedance to ground
along the outside will be low and a large fraction of the total current
will flow along the outside of the shield. If the coax is an odd number of
quarter wavelengths, most of the current will flow onto the dipole half and
little will flow along the shield.

  -- "Balanced" (twinlead) lines can radiate also, and will whenever the
currents in the two conductors aren't equal and opposite. For example,
connecting twinlead to an unbalanced rig output will cause this situation.

  -- Placing a line asymmetrically with respect to the antenna will induce
currents due to coupling from the antenna. However, feedline radiation can
occur for the above reasons even if it's completely symmetrical.

  -- None of this has anything at all to do with impedance match.

This isn't a wild-eyed theoretical analysis. It really happens and can and
has been measured.

For more information I suggest reading the articles.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:55 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 22:21:21 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
Lines: 23
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"Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Since a balun isn't really needed on a dipole, why not just use the
>wind the coax at the feed point type current balun... Doesn't change
>the way its fed, should only help eliminate fed line radiation...?
>It looks like hell but it seems to work...

Hi Tom,

What you are describing IS a balun.  By eliminating feedline current,
your coil forces all the current exiting the feedline out onto the
antenna legs.  Because currents within the coax are equal and
opposite, the current on the legs will also be equal and opposite,
thus balanced.

73,
Jack  WB3U








From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:27:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 17:40:04 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4va8rb$[e-mail]>
References: <4v2bo4$[e-mail]> <4v2pgg$[e-mail]>
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In article <4v2pgg$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns) wrote:

>. . . [a very nice explanation, with which I agree entirely except one
small point. . .]

>But if the feedline is a balanced line, then there is an inverted "L" on
>both sides, fed between the points of the "L".  If everything is
>symmetrical, the current on the two horizontal wires will be equal in
>magnitude and opposite in direction at equal distances from the
>feedpoint...and in this configuration radiates like mad.  Same is true
>on the vertical wires--but _this_ is just transmission line current and
>is very poor at radiating.

The transmission line current is neither better nor worse at radiating than
any other current. For a given amount of current on a given length of line,
the radiation will be the same regardless of whether it's on a wire we've
declared to be a "transmission line" (including a common-mode current on a
"balanced" line) or on one we've decided is the "antenna".

In practice, the transmission line current might not radiate as we'd like,
since the transmission line may be close to the ground, run beside other
conductors like telephone or power lines, and enter the shack. And the
antenna pattern won't be what we expect unless we account for the
contribution of the transmission line currents.

> . . .

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 20 Aug 1996 06:03:39 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 49
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vc2hr$[e-mail]>
References: <4vb891$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vb891$[e-mail]>,
>>>If the feed system for the twinlead was perfectly balanced such
>>>that it drove equal and opposite currents onto the two conductors,
>>>and we use the same system when we replace the twinlead with coax,
>>>there won't be any current on the outside of the coax. This is
>>>because the current on the two conductors inside the coax are
>>>equal and opposite. If total current provided the outer conductor is
>>>equal to and opposite the current provided the center conductor, all
>>>of it will flow on the inside, and there won't be any left over to
>>>flow on the outside.

That is true, but the very act of switching from twinlead to coax upsets
the system.
The system must pass several "tests", not just one or two.

For example, the non-radiating twin lead eventually couples to generator
terminals that have equal and opposite phase voltages from each conductor
to any independent large conductive mass we could present. That mass could
be the earth, something as small as a screwdriver blade, or the chassis of
the equipment.

The voltage at the two antenna terminals must also be equal and opposite
phase in the same test, or some common mode current will excite the line.

One exception is operating the above feedline and the systems at each end
with total independence of everything else of any electrical mass in the
area near the system. In all real-world cases, touching a conductor at far
end of the perfectly balanced twinlead with a screwdriver blade unbalances
the system....on 1.8 MHz not much...on 432 (where the blade is a low
impedance) a whole bunch!

With coax, the shield must be the same voltage all along its shield to the
outside world. If the voltage is zero or the shield is operated totally
independent of the outside world, touching the shield with the screwdriver
does nothing (unless the screwdrive is being excited by antenna
radiation). Any voltage difference at the generator or antenna from the
shield terminal to our independent electrical mass and the feedline will
radiate if the shield has finite impedance to the outside world.

While it is true a feedline will not radiate if currents on each conductor
are equal and opposite, any change in the system can potentially upset
current equality. A change from twinlead to coax can easily unbalance a
perfectly balanced system, or vice versa.

The only exception I can think of that would allow interchange without
some amount of radiation is if at least two items out of the generator,
load and line operated independently of other conductive masses.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:01 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 20 Aug 1996 18:59:18 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4vd1u6$[e-mail]>
References: <4v8k75$[e-mail]> <4va8bk$[e-mail]> <4vb1v6$[e-mail]> <4vb891$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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William E. Sabin ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Jack wrote:

: > >As you've previously confirmed for me, the coax, by nature, forces
: > >its inner currents to be equal and opposite.

: Not true.  There is no reason why the total center lead current and the
: total return current on the inside of the braid *have* to be equal.

: Bill W0IYH

There is a reason if the braid coverage is good.  The electric field in
a perfect conductor is zero.  If the outer conductor fully covers the
inner conductor and is much thicker than a skin depth, then the
requirement of zero E field in the outer conductor means there is also
zero magnetic field. Zero magnetic field requires that the sum of the
currents along the line on the inner condutor and inside of the outer
conductor is zero.

73 Kevin [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:02 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 23:18:28 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4vdhb1$[e-mail]>
References: <4v8k75$[e-mail]> <4va8bk$[e-mail]> <4vb1v6$[e-mail]> <4vb891$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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   "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
  >Jack wrote:

>> >As you've previously confirmed for me, the coax, by nature, forces
>> >its inner currents to be equal and opposite.

>Not true.  There is no reason why the total center lead current
>and the total return current on the inside of the braid *have* to
>be equal.

Containment of the magnetic fields within coax *requires* the
fields and their corresponding currents to be equal and opposite.
Only leakage through the shield and internal resistive loss can
upset the balance.

Incidentally, this is the principle that allows a ferrite bead
current balun to work.  If unequal loads are attached between
each output connection of such a device and ground, the coax
will force equal and opposite current into each load.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Building A One Tower Station
Date: 21 Aug 96 03:24:01 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

> > Hi to the members of the Ham-Antenna group.  I think William has
> > raised a problem that faces most serious operators...How build a
> > competitive station with a single tower, and try to cover all contest
 bands.
> > I am interested in comments or experience people may have on multi-
> > band HF yagis which would help in this situation. The requirement is
> > obviously to achieve performance close to that of a monoband yagi, but
> > to cover several bands.
> > (a)     What do members of the group think a log-periodic like the
> >         Hygain TH11 for 14 - 30Mhz.
>
> If I remember right, a log periodic has almost no gain over a dipole.
> > (b)     Would a trapped beam like the Mosley Pro67 for 7 -30Mhz
> >         offer a better performance?
Unless the technical articles are lying and my personal experience with
the KLM log-periodic beam is a fantasy, it does have gain. True, the gain
is less than a single band yagi with fewer elements.

Greetings, antennaphiles --

      This discussion assumes several parameters including (you determine the
order): performance, reliability, cost, size, etc.  Let's assume for a moment
that you enjoy cracking pileups and like reliable HF communications.  In
other words, you want performance.  That rules out LPs and big Mosleys.  The
recognized high perfomers on 10-20 are the KT34XA and TH7DX but they don't
offer 12M and 17M.  Add an A3WS or Hy-Gain and you've got them.  The
Cushcraft even has a 30M dipole add-on.  The acknowledged leader on 40M is
the Cushcraft 402CD.  Add that to your mast and away you go; 40 thru 10M
performance.

    A new option are the Force 12 antennas.  A C-4 gives you all of the above
spectrum coverage with the exception of 30M.  One antenna does your tower,
mast and rotator a favor as well.

      All of this information and more is in my paper "Building A One Tower
Station"  that was presented at the Contest Forum at Dayton this year.  Send
me your postal address and I'll send you a copy.

73,  Steve  K7LXC

    TOWER TECH -- professional tower supplies and services for amateurs




From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BURIED Antennae?
Date: 14 Aug 1996 11:21:29 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 14
Sender: [e-mail]
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References: <4uqqjv$[e-mail]>
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In article <4uqqjv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>Is that mounted on a car, or over a fixed ground system? (Impressive in
>either case, but much more so if on a car.)
>
>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

On my F-250 truck Roy. The ground system is small and very expensive
compared to the system at home.

Shows how well an antenna can get out with less than 1% efficiency.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:05 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Carolina Windom 80 antenna
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 20:58:16 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4v7e3n$[e-mail]>
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WB3U wrote:
>
>    [e-mail] (a r richards) wrote:
>
> >I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with the
> >Carolina Windom 80 wire antenna as sold by The Radio Works.
> >
> >Utilizing vertical radiation off the feedline they claim a usable
> >very low angle vertically polarized pattern on the low bands.  Is
> >that true?
>
> It's true in theory - the lower angle of radiation from the vertical
> section should improve DX signals somewhat.  The problem is, vertical
> radiators require a good ground plane, i.e. radials.  Without this, a
> vertical is very inefficient.  I am skeptical of the performance of
> these antennas when operated over average soil with no ground plane.
> It seems entirely likely that most of the vertical radiation will
> simply be wasted in heating the ground.
>
> 73,
> Jack  WB3U

Your answer may be true for the antenna noted above. If the vertical
operates near one-half wavelength (voltage fed), a good ground system is
not required.

W0MAY




From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:06 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Carolina Windom 80 antenna
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 23:51:00 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4vauit$[e-mail]>
References: <4v7e3n$[e-mail]> <4valm7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx20-49.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <4valm7$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>In article <4v7e3n$[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:
>
>>It seems entirely likely that most of the vertical radiation will
>>simply be wasted in heating the ground.
>>
>>
>
>And there is another problem, adding cross polarization increases fading
>in a skywave circuit.
>
>Transmitting on a cross polarized antenna increases fading.
>
>73 Tom

Tom, what do you mean by "cross polarization"? Something other than
horizontal or vertical? And, since the polarization is rotated pretty
randomly along the ionospheric path anyway, why does having polarization
other than horizontal or vertical increase the fading?

I've seen deep fades caused by polarization shift. I can listen to a signal
on a horizontal antenna and, when it's in a deep fade, switch to a vertical
and have it pop up 30 dB or more. Then when it fades on the vertical,
switch back to the horizontal and see the same increase. (It's really funny
to hear somebody asking, "Here's antenna #1. Now here's #2. Which is
louder?" when this kind of QSB is going on.) Anyway, do you mean that if I
used an antenna with, say, 45 degree polarization relative to horizontal
that the fading would be worse with either the horizontal or vertical
antenna? Why?

(Incidentally, I tried a turnstile once to see if circular polarization
would reduce or eliminate the effect. The classical quadrature-fed crossed
dipoles are circularly polarized only in two directions and one elevation
angle to begin with, and I'm pretty sure that the ground reflection trashes
the circularity -- I know it does with an omnidirectional UHF
circularly-polarized antenna. So the experiment wasn't conclusive.)

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:08 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.cdsnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!zdc-e!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!netaxs.com!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx03-49
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Common mode currents
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 17:14:30 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <4vcrne$[e-mail]>
References: <4vbnqd$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vbnqd$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (SJ Beyers) wrote:
>I see the term "common mode currents" used frequently in these postings,
>usually to describe unwanted currents on feedlines.  I've looked in my
>books, but I can't find a good explanation (maybe I haven't looked hard
>enough).  Would someone please elaborate on where the term comes from and
>what it means?
>
>
>                                       Thanks - Steve W9HJW

From _The IEEE Standard Dictionary of Electrical and Electronic Terms_,
Third Ed.:

common-mode (1) (general). The instantaneous algebraic average of two
signals applied to a balanced circuit, both signals referred to a common
reference.

"Common-mode" and "differential-mode" are mathematical conveniences used
when dealing with differential circuits. (They also have other names, for
example even and odd mode.) Suppose we have two feedline conductors,
conductor #1 carrying 5 amps (up) and conductor #2, 2 amps in the opposite
direction (down). We can split the currents into two parts as follows:

A differential mode current of (5 - (-2))/2 = 3.5 amps, and
A common mode current of (5 + (-2))/2 = 1.5 amps.

(The negative sign in front of the 2 denotes downward current.)

The differential current of 3.5 amps means 3.5 amps up on conductor #1 and
3.5 amps down on the other.

The common-mode current of 1.5 amps means 1.5 amps up on both conductors.
So the #1 conductor current is 3.5 amps up (differential component) + 1.5
amps up (common mode component) = 5 amps. The #2 conductor current is 3.5
amps down (differential component) + 1.5 amps up (common mode component) =
2 amps down. All we've done is to split each conductor current into two
components.

The fields from the differential mode currents cancel, so there's no
radiation from them. The fields from the common mode currents add (they're
in the same direction), so they cause radiation. In this case, the
radiation is the same as for two wires, each carrying 1.5 amps (the amount
of common mode current).

We could, instead, have just looked at the two currents and seen that
there's a 3 amp difference, split between the two wires, and made the same
conclusion. But the concept is useful when dealing with differential
circuits of all sorts. For example, if we have a differential line driver
on a circuit board driving a differential receiver, the amount of signal
useful to the receiver is the differential mode, while the signal causing
EMI from radiation is the common mode.

A "current" or "choke" balun provides an impedance to the common mode
component without affecting the differential mode component.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Common mode currents
Date: 20 Aug 1996 23:49:33 GMT
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SJ Beyers ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I see the term "common mode currents" used frequently in these postings,
: usually to describe unwanted currents on feedlines.  I've looked in my
: books, but I can't find a good explanation (maybe I haven't looked hard
: enough).  Would someone please elaborate on where the term comes from and
: what it means?


"Fools rush in..."

Transmission lines we normally use have two conductors:  either
"twin-lead" (or "ladder line") or coaxial cable.  There can be a current
in each conductor.  Rather than say that there is 10 amps in one
conductor and -9.5 amps in the other (and maybe even have to specify
additional phase angle information), it's customary to resolve the two
currents into "transmission line currents," synonymous with
"differential mode currents"; and "antenna currents," synonymous with
"common mode currents."  By definition, differential mode currents are
currents exactly balanced between the two wires:  if there is +10 amps
of differential mode current in one wire, then in the other wire at a
point immediatly adjacent there must be -10 amps to balance that.  In
addition, there may be a common mode current on the line, say 3.8 amps
at the same point.

If the line has 1:1 SWR, the differential mode RMS current is essentially
the same along the length of the line, decreasing toward the load only
because of line attenuation.  If the SWR isn't 1:1, then the differential
mode RMS current varies with distance along the line, but it remains
balanced.  High SWR does not, in itself, significantly increase line
radiation.

Where that common mode current actually is, is of little consequence
normally, since the effect is that it will radiate.  The differential
mode currents in each wire also radiate, but since there are balancing
currents very close together, the net radiation from differential mode
current is very low.  But in fact, the common mode current must be on
the outside of the outer conductor of a coaxial cable, and will be equal
in each conductor of a ladder line _if_ the line is arranged
symmetrically with its surroundings at all points.

There are more details, but I hope this will cover the basics...I'm sure
others will add to it/correct it if it falls short.

--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:10 1996
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From: [e-mail] (eugene nick)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cushcraft 124WB & A148-3S Good?
Date: 18 Aug 1996 15:02:28 GMT
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I am thinking of buying either a 124WB or A148-3S. Does anyone have an
opinion on either?
--
       HERE'S TO A LONG LIFE AND MERRY ONE!
          A QUICK DEATH AND A EASY ONE
             A GOOD LOVER AND A TRUE ONE
               A COLD BEER AND ANOTHER ONE!!!


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:11 1996
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From: [e-mail] (JAMES MCEWEN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Emoting and Great writers of the Net
Date: 14 Aug 96 17:45:56 GMT
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     Bill W0IYH wrote:

     > Sure!  That is why all the great writers in the world have
     > always used things like :-) and such stuff in their really
     > great novels and plays.


     Methinks I see a fallacy in this argument.   If it were a really
     great play then the design is for emotion to be expressed by the
     actor, not the text of the play.  This is the difference between
     a great actor and a ham.  and I'm sorry Bill, but I won't waste
     my great writing talents upon the unwashed masses of the
     internet.  Especially since a simple :) could tell the tone of a
     statement.

     Jim KA6TPR



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:12 1996
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From: Jeff <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HF Mobil Antenna's
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:22:14 -0700
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I was recently browsing through my old amateur radio trader, and noticed
an add from TRANSEL Technologies in Harveysburgh,OH. They were
advertising mobil wips for $17.95. I was wondering if anyone else has
tried these, and if so how well do they perform.  I have a '95' ford
escort wagon lx that I would like to put an mobil HF into but dont want
a monstrosity.  Am open to suggestions "please"

Thanks
Jayson, N7URO
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna's for ICOM 706
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 17:43:09 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
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In article <01bb8b05$3522efc0$f519369d@wokka>,
   "v-ntxes" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
>Bart Senior <[e-mail]> wrote in article
><4ut1tl$[e-mail]>...
>>
>> I've also thought about using a whip with an antenna tuner.  What is
>> the best lenght.  The Icom AT-180 is expensive.  I've heard about
>> other options for tuning--all comments would be welcome.
>
>The AT-180 works quite well if your antenna is almost in tolorance.  It
>will bring down a 3:1 down to a 1:1.  If  it is worse that that it won't
do
>a thing. . .

Most rigs will handle 2:1 or 3:1 without a tuner. So what's the AT-180 good
for?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:13 1996
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From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna's for ICOM 706
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 15:58:51 -0700
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
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Bart Senior wrote:
>
> I plan to test for my Advanced License soon.   I am thinking about
> buying an ICOM 706 and would like to know what is the best option for
> an automobile  mobile antenna.
>
> Any suggestions on mounting would also be appreciated.
>
> I will be running the 706 on a full sized '83 Blazer.--which has a
> Thule roof bar over the cab.  I don't mind drilling holes in the
> roof--I have two already--one for a scanner, one for a 1/4 wave CB, or
> modifiying the roof bar--a good place for a 2 meter antenna.  Another
> option is to purchasing a hitch mount.
>
> I've read about the Outbacker and Texas Bugcatcher.  Both required
> stopping to reset taps.  I will be driving cross country and would
> prefer to stay in my car as I tune across various bands--unless this
> is an unrealistic goal for decent performance.
>
> I've also thought about using a whip with an antenna tuner.  What is
> the best lenght.  The Icom AT-180 is expensive.  I've heard about
> other options for tuning--all comments would be welcome.
>
> A last option is more than one HF antenna on my truck. However, too
> many sticks might start skewing the azimuthal antenna patterns--I want
> to keep those as isotropic as possible.   Any thoughts on this would
> be appreciated.
>
> All this is advance preparation for use on an ocean going yacht.  I
> want to be intimately familar with radio operation before I go to sea.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bart Senior, ASA Sailing Instructor


Try the SPIDER antenna from Multiband antennas inn LA (I think it may
show Pasadena as the address).  I feed it from a AH-3 and it works
admireably on my 706.  Even with a 40 meter resonator I can work 80
meters effectively.  The SPIDER is top loaded with an array of coils for
various bands.  I reocmmend using the optional steel mast which they
offer.  I use a bungee cord and a couple of cloth loops to keep the
antenna from waiving around when I go 4 wheeling.

Good Luck

Bill Harwood
AB6DY


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:14 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:52:10 -0700
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W8JI Tom wrote:
>
>
> To avoid stray resonances and unwanted voltage build up across unused
> sections of the coil.
>


I have noticed that this "suck-out" caused by self-resonance in the
unused coil section can make it impossible to tune certain frequencies.
As you adjust the coil roller the stray resonant frequency moves around
and affects the total inductance in very unpredictable ways.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:15 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:57:42 +0100
Organization: IFW Technical Services
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In answer to:

>>So why do pi-tank switches always short the unused turns rather than
>>>leaving them floating?

Tom and Bill wrote:
>
>>To avoid stray resonances and unwanted voltage build up across unused
>>sections of the coil. The tank Q does decrease, but since the tank is
>>operated with a loaded Q very much below the unloaded Q the difference
>>is almost immeasurable.
>>
>I have noticed that this "suck-out" caused by self-resonance in the
>unused coil section can make it impossible to tune certain frequencies.
>As you adjust the coil roller the stray resonant frequency moves around
>and affects the total inductance in very unpredictable ways.

Thank you both!

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 23:14:50 GMT
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On 14 Aug 1996 21:52:29 -0400, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:


>The best coil I ever measured was in the mid to upper 300's. The Hustler
>has a different problem Cecil, it has too much stray C. If you measure it
>far below the band it was designed for, the Q isn't so bad....around 150
>or so. The problem is they don't use any capaciatnce above the coil, and
>the huge chrome end caps add considerable shunt C, as well as the
>dielectric between turns and the jacket over the coil. Near the operating
>frequency, the operating Q goes to heck in a handbasket..
>
>By the way, if I use a bucatcher **type*** coil with huge end caps, or
>stick a hat at one end, the Q goes away at the upper frequency end also.
>Not only that, placing the hat at the bottom of the whip lowers the
>radiation resistance and efficiency by robbing current from the whip.
>
>I don't have a Hamstick, if you send me one I'll cut it apart and measure
>it. I expect it's worse than the Hustler by the appearance of it, just
>like the Outsider antenna probably is.
>
>73 Tom
Hi Tom,  what is your procedure for measuring "Q" and what test
equipment? I can't find previous threads where you mention this.

WB6HQK and myself , this winter are planning to hang a 61' wire from a
balloon attached to the vehicle. We will then measure the base
impedance, deduct hardware loss and (hopefully) determine the ground
loss resistance.  We will then replace the .25wl wire with Hustler,
Bugcatcher etc; measure their respective base impedances and then
calculate the "Q".
At the 1995, Fallbrook, Ca; "mobile antenna system shootout"  W6TM
using a modified Hustler was better by more than 1db over all the
other "Hustler" systems.  The  only thing he did was take off the
"stock" coil wire and use larger dia wire.
 This may come as a surprise , but during many tests ,I have found the
"Hustler Hi Power" to be inferior to the low power model in terms of
field strength...."Q"???   "Hamstiks"  and SGC QMS systems tested 10
down from the Hustlers.  In published pamphlets one of the above
states their system is 20db better than any other mobile system!!  I
have a video taken at the Esparto shootout showing this aint so!
"Fortex" has a "Big Daddy" all stainless (including coil)  mobile
antenna system.  I will be testing and comparing it with the "Hustler"
and "Bugcatcher" from a common mobile platform.
Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 02:08:43 GMT
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On Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:04:56 -0700, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>Jesse Touhey (W6KKT) wrote:
>> In published pamphlets one of the above
>> states their system is 20db better than any other mobile system!!
>
>Hi Jesse, could you take another look at that pamphlet? If it's the same
>pamphlet that I have, they say something like, let us show you how you can
>gain 20dB over any mobile antenna (assuming it possesses a majority of the
>following problems), which they list. IMO they implied the part in
>parentheses and I don't think they claimed to be better than an antenna
>system not possessing the problems they listed. After all, the way they
>arrived at the 20dB figure is by adding 3-6dB for each of the listed
>problems so IMO they were comparing their product *only* to antenna systems
>possessing *most of the severe problems* that they listed. It's the old
>Strawman approach. Conjure up the worst possible antenna and compare one's
>product to it.
>
>It may be a small point, but it changes the accusation from lying to
>unrealistic marketing hype - unrealistic because no mobile antenna system
>could possibly possess all the problems they enumerate and the effect
>of possessing each problem is exaggerated at 3-6dB. So I'm not siding with
>them, just trying to be objective.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)
Hi Cecil, It looks like you and I are at it again :-)
The last sentance of the first paragraph in their pamphlet reads: "So
let us show you how you can get more than 20db of gain by simply using
a QMS compared with any other 1.8 to 30mhz system.")  They then go on
to say their 20db claim is pretty CONSERVATIVE!
When I see advertisement like the above I get OUTRAGED!  I'm surprised

you don't.  I never used the word "LYING"  in my thread.  However, my
"objectivity"  would never allow me to critique their pamphlet with:
"unrealistic marketing hype". The word DEVIOUS does come to mind!  I
have a very dear amateur friend who paid around $1000
directly because of that "unrealistic marketing hype".  I suspect, not
a few Amateurs have done the same.  Have you ever tested their system?

I have, on three seperate occasions.

Pyramid Lake, Ca "Mobile Antenna Trials" 6/15/95

1.   SGC "QMSII" system(SG303 whip, SG230 tuner) mounted high on
left r quarter panel (13' tip to ground).   FS reading: 51.3

2.  Bumper mounted, center loaded, no capacity hat, "Bugcatcher"
(13.5' tip to ground).  FS reading 59.8   (+8.5db over SGC)

3.  Homebrew "DK" (W6AAQ Screwdriver), bumper mounted, 51" base,
21"coil, 61" whip. FS: 58.2  (+6.9 db over SGC).

3.  Homebrew, bumper mounted, center loaded, capacity hat (W6KKT
design) 13.5 tip to ground , motor driven L & C at base. FS: 63.3
(+12db over SGC)

The above mobile antenna systems were resonant on 3995kc.
The higher the operating frequency the smaller the difference in
signal strength between antenna systems.

Cecil, I hope I'm not starting to write like "Kurt" :-) ?  If I can
save someone from blowing a grand on a system, which at the very
least will get stolen the first time it is parked at the supermarket
parking lot, I will feel good :-).

Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:22 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems
References: <4uu522$[e-mail]> <4v156e$[e-mail]> <4v2crk$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 15:04:34 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> writes:
>Roy Lewallen wrote:
>> Sounds like going from a Celica to a big truck is likely to make more
>> difference than anything you can do with the coil. Has anyone ranked the
>> "shootout" results by type of vehicle? What kind of vehicle is best?
>
>We haven't noticed an obvious difference between the mid sized vehicles and
>the big ones. The best sig's in our group at Anderson, Indiana included a
>Cutlass, a Toyota truck, and a couple Cadillacs. There could be a difference
>that can easily be measured but we will have to move the same antenna to the
>different vehicles. I will suggest that for the one on Sept 17.

Another, hmmm. Seems to me that it is capacitance to Earth that
matters here. A vehicle with a bigger footprint might have greater
capacitance to Earth *if the ride height is the same*. But a low
rider would have much more capacitance to Earth than a jacked up
4x4 pickup. Anything smaller than a semi is going to be too small
to be a good counterpoise on 75m, so the capacitive coupling to
Earth would seem to be an important factor in how good a groundplane
the vehicle plus Earth will be.

Gary
--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | Due to provider problems
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | with previous uucp address
es
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | Email to [e-mail]
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:22 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!in2p3.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!xenon.brooks.af.mil!usenet
From: Dave Potter <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: how can I broadcast on FM radio?
Date: 16 Aug 1996 20:16:56 GMT
Organization: Brooks AFB
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4v2kvo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4u8h1e$[e-mail]> <4uaoqn$[e-mail]> <4uuefd$[e-mail]>
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:35914 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31701 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16423 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23639 rec.radio.amateur.misc:105962

[e-mail] (Dave Bryndal) wrote:
>
>buy a "Mr. Microphone"

Ur bad, Dave

73s

Dave Potter
KC5UDZ



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:23 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!zilker.net!news.intercon.com!netnews.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!in2p3.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!mn5.swip.net!news
From: Maude Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ideal radiation angle?
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:59:25 -0700
Organization: -
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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To: charles copeland <[e-mail]>

charles copeland wrote:
>
> What is the ideal take off angle for 80m? 10m?

Depending on the distance you want to reach, short distance high angle
and vice versa.
SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:24 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news1.inlink.com!news.dra.com!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.qnet.com!ibbs!js
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jeff Stillinger)
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Stillinger)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:47:06 GMT
Subject: Larson Antenna Warning...
Lines: 44


Hello,

Ever wonder why your Larson magnetic mounted antennas seem to be numb
to the world?  Guess what I found!  Unsoldered connectors!  Here is the
story.

This weekend I bought a Larson Magnetic Mount for a antenna that I
had.  I live in the dorms here at Edwards AFB, so antenna space for any
band is at a minimum.  I pluged my antenna in, ran the cable to the
radio, and discovered that it was not "hearing" as well as my rubber
duck.  I could not belive my eyes.  I placed an adapter for my dimond
antenna and pluged it directly into the radio.  Worked great.  The
intermod was even there.

I took a VOM and began to explore this invention.  I found that when I
pounded the mount on the table I lost continuity between the center
pin of the so-239/pl-259.  I soldered the VOM leeds onto the connectors
and pounded again.  Boo-hiss it did it again.

I took the magnetic mount apart very carfully.  What I found when I
got inside amazed me.  I could not belive my eyes again.  Anger from my
toes to my head brewed.  The coax cable was not soldered to the
SO-239 center pin.  A really sleezy crip connector connected the
sheild.  No wonder it did not work worth a damn.  There was not even a
hint of solder on the connector.

I got my iron out and began to solder.  Fixed it up really nice, and I
must say that the antenna has exceeded my expectations.

The whole point to this is simple.  If you find your Larson mounts are
not working better than a rubber duck, or are noisy.  The answer could
be a unsoldered connector.  10 minutes and it's fixed.

I am hopeing this was just a small mistake on Larsons part.  Maybe the
mount got though a "hole" in the production line.  Either way, maybe
Larson needs to spend some time with QA.

Thanks for reading...

--js






              -
              --
              ---
-             ----
---           ------
-THEY DON'T GET OFF TIL WE COME>
---           ------
-             ----
              ---
              --
              -
              -


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:25 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.net66.com!jolt.pagesat.net!pagesat.net!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!viper.inow.com!ns1.aplatform.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!nntp.wwwi.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.ahc.ameritech.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!news
From: [e-mail] (Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need help with Wilson system 40 pse.
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:32:06 GMT
Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4utupq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net-19.mdb.pix.za
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi All

Can one of you please help me with the detail on the Wilson system 40
antenna.

I got one for free but no documents!

Thanks in anticipation

73

Dave ZS6BXN



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:26 1996
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From: Dave Booth <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.dx,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec
Subject: Re: New Ham Radio Discussion Area on the Web!
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:10:24 -0700
Organization: KC6WFS
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <01bb88d0$b49bb8e0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.113.223.131
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To: James Van Houten <[e-mail]>
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23640 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16707 rec.radio.amateur.dx:205 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16425 rec.radio.amateur.misc:105963 rec.radio.amateur.policy:35916 rec.radio.amateur.space:7388

James Van Houten wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Will keep it short and to the point.  There is a new resource for Ham radio
> topics.  It is on the web.  Come on over and visit
> http://www.coronetsec.com/hamradio  All hamradio topics welcome.  Hope to
> see you there soon.
>
> Jim
> KA3TTU
>
> ps.  Don't forget to tell all of your non-newsgroup readin' friends!!  :-)
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> James Van Houten     http://www.coronetsec.com/hamradio
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
I'll have to go and check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5860
--
Dave Booth
kc6wfs dmo4rk


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: 19 Aug 96 10:52:40 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wkuvx1.wku.edu

I'm looking to buy some true open-wire line.  One company makes some 16
gauge 400 ohm "ladder line" twinlead, but publishes no loss or power
specs.

Can you buy glazed caramic spreader insulators, or better yet ready-made
open wire line?

Does anyone have any for sale?

...

WB9NEQ

--
[e-mail]  Chief Engineer, Public Radio- Western KY U
                     Telco: [phone]  Hm & Fax: [phone]
...just another insignificant VAX user.        \\\//
                                               (o o)
--------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-----------------------



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:28 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news.PBI.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:10:15 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> Chris Scott wrote:
> > I'm looking to buy some true open-wire line.  One company makes some 16
> > gauge 400 ohm "ladder line" twinlead, but publishes no loss or power
> > specs.
>
> Hi Chris, The Wireman has 14ga stranded ladder-line which they advertise as
> able to handle "maximum power" (presumably amateur maximum power :-). The lo
ss
> is approximately the same as 7/8" hardline, i.e. about 0.2dB per 100ft at
> 30MHz according to the graph in Wirebook III which does not contain the erro
r
> reproduced for years on the ARRL charts.
>
> 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


Cecil-

        Where is "The Wireman" located?  Any way to contact easily?  800 or Web?

        -=Tony=-        W6ANV


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: 20 Aug 96 10:49:31 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 62
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vbj1u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wkuvx1.wku.edu

In article <4vbj1u$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W
B3U) writes:
>    "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>Fair radio has some 2 inch ceramic ones which are newly made.
>>I think they are about $.25 each or some such.  Ceramic ones
>>make the line kind of heavy.

Thanx,
I called them, but they indicated that they didn't have them.



You might consider making them
>>out of Lucite or Lexan. If they are about 4 inches spacing you
>>probably will be able to get away with one every 3 feet or so.
>>Drill a hole for the 14 AWG and then one next to it for #22.
>>I am using enamel covered wire and will just twist a short length
>>of 22 to hold the 14 in place and maybe a little coil dope lightly
>>on the twist to keep it from moving.
>

I was a little concerned about the dielectric loss and long-term
reaction to UV with these plastics.   I can do teflon,  but it would
be a little pricey.

 My objective was to create a VERY low-loss line,
for high power that would last 20 years...

The application would be a high inverted V for 40 and 80, with good
tuneable performance for SWL.   The topic of spacing and impedance
also exists...    Resistive losses will be minimum at higher impedances,
like 600 ohms, (understanding the extra SWR losses) but line radiation
and sensitivity to unbalance becomes
more of a concern with the wider spacings...

I had in mind probably #10 solid copper conductors...




> Hi Chuck,
>
> A guy on the air suggested something to me several months ago that
> sounds a lot easier.  His spreaders were made from 1/2" PVC, cut
> into 3-4" lengths.  He mounted each spreader on the conductors by
> simply heating the wire with a propane torch and pressing the wire
> into the PVC.  He claimed the line has already lasted through
> several severe ice storms and lots of high wind.
>
> 73,
> Jack  WB3U

Thanx...

WB9NEQ

--
[e-mail]  Chief Engineer, Public Radio- Western KY U
                     Telco: [phone]  Hm & Fax: [phone]
...just another insignificant VAX user.        \\\//
                                               (o o)
--------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-----------------------



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:30 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: Larry Keith <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:33:58 +0000
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vbq2t$[e-mail]> <4vd3tg$[e-mail]>
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I use some test probe bodies that I bought at a hamfest.. Still have a
few thousand left if you would like a few..

73,

Larry, KQ4BY
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:31 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet
From: "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:09:04 -0500
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Fair radio has some 2 inch ceramic ones which are newly made. I think
they are about $.25 each or some such.
Ceramic ones make the line kind of heavy. You might consider making them
out of Lucite or Lexan. If they are about 4 inches spacing you probably
will be able to get away with one every 3 feet or so. Drill a hole for
the 14 AWG and then one next to it for #22. I am using enamel covered
wire and will just twist a short length of 22 to hold the 14 in place
and maybe a little coil dope lightly on the twist to keep it from
moving.

Chuck, KE9UW



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:32 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!newsfeed.mc.ti.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jim Flanders)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC losses
Date: 19 Aug 1996 13:01:00 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments @ Lewisville
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <4v9oic$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: shtip114.dseg.ti.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

Lawrence et al:
   A while ago I tried to use weed wacker line as a guy wire to a 5/8
over a 1/4 2 meter mobile antenna.  The weed wacker cord shows a dead
short on two meters.
W0oog/5


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>
>>
>>Many years ago, a well-known writer made a 160-meter antenna loaded
with a
>>long coil wound on a piece of PVC pipe. The coil melted when he
applied a
>>kW, so he wrote that PVC was lossy at RF. It turned out that the PVC
melted
>>because the wire got extremely hot due to plain old skin resistance.
>>(The coil had lousy Q and a whole lot of current.)
>
>I'll second that.  20 yrs ago while living in Wichita had a top loaded
>vertical for 160....about 20 ft tall with a 16 ft diameter top hat and
quite
>a few turns of #14 insulated house wire wound on a PVC form just under
the
>hat.  Worked G land several times with that, over a 30 ft dia ground
screen.
>Forgot to switch antennas one day and somehow managed to load the
Dentron
>MLA-2500B into it on 20M.  Was tuning up CW, key down, (no flames
please!)
>when the neighbor called to say that the antenna was on fire (smoke,
no
>flames).  The PVC form was intact, but the insulation on the wire was
black,
>smoking, and dripping.  I really doubt if the current in the wire at
1200
>watts was enought to heat the wire that much and SUSPECT that then
intense
>RF field in the coil flowing thru whatever they put in the insulation
to
>make it white was more than the system could handle.
>
>That antenna has been down for a long time as I've moved and I've
often
>wondered if the guy across the street ever figured out why his garage
door
>was often found open early Sunday mornings when he went out for the
paper,
>and that it only happened in winter when he wished the door would stay
closed.
>
>
>Lawrence E. Stoskopf, M.D.
>N0UU
>



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:33 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newshub.csg.stercomm.com!newshub.itd.sterling.com!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!crcnews.unl.edu!news.mid.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsbuffer.myriad.net!news.myriad.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: QUESTION :ON QUADS
Date: 18 Aug 1996 06:50:13 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <4v6ef5$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup565.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <[e-mail]>, Hal Rosser <[e-mail]> writes:
>Question for the antenna gurus out there:
>  Can I put directors on both sides of the driven element
>so my quad can be bi-directional instead of 1 refl and 2 dir's ? I'm
>thinking about 2 directors
>on each side for a narrow bidirectional pattern.
>  Or will this mess up the quad altogether ?
> (I can't rotate it and bi-directional would be great for my purposes
>as long as I could get good gain.)
>--
>Thanks for any input
>Hal Rosser KT4QE
>[e-mail]

Simpler solution yet!  Set each loop on either side up for a director,
as you just said.  But also, take a few six inch open wire feeder insulators
and make you a stub for each loop!  Be sure to tie the far end of the stub
together!  The idea is that you are adding a tuning length to the loop that
can alternately make it either a director or reflector.

You can short the end of the stub up near the loop and that loop is then
a director.  At the same time you open up the shorting bar on the other
side and *PRESTO*, instant reflector!

Simple old ordinary room light switches work just fine.

If you are in a position where the quad is fixed and you can't rotate it,
this is a cheap, dirty, and effective way to get it to fire either way.

I used this trick for years on low vertically polarized 40 meter three
element quads and it works just fine, as far as the antenna went.   Also
shunt fed it with coax direct to the unbroken loop with a gamma match
and that works just fine too.

As midnight roles around, just stroll outside and yank the string on the light

switch handles like a venitian blind!

Poof, VK instead of G....


Mike W5WQN



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:34 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!news.abest.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: QUESTION :ON QUADS
Date: 19 Aug 1996 20:32:13 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vb12d$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, Hal Rosser <[e-mail]>
writes:

>
>Question for the antenna gurus out there:
>  Can I put directors on both sides of the driven element
>so my quad can be bi-directional instead of 1 refl and 2 dir's ? I'm
>thinking about 2 directors
>on each side for a narrow bidirectional pattern.
>  Or will this mess up the quad altogether ?
> (I can't rotate it and bi-directional would be great for my purposes
>as long as I could get good gain.)

You could make that work, but you'd be better off feeding the quads 8JK
style.

Directors do not direct, and reflectors do not reflect. They BOTH add
directivity by phase shift of a re-radiated signal. The largest directive
effect of directors and reflectors in quads and yagis is they **cancel
radiation in unwanted directions**.

Putting two parasitic elements in a system so they can "fight" each others
effects would be bad.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: QUESTION :ON QUADS
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 02:22:42 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
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In article <4vb12d$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>, Hal Rosser <[e-mail]>
>writes:
>
>>
>>Question for the antenna gurus out there:
>>  Can I put directors on both sides of the driven element
>>so my quad can be bi-directional instead of 1 refl and 2 dir's ? I'm
>>thinking about 2 directors
>>on each side for a narrow bidirectional pattern.
>>  Or will this mess up the quad altogether ?
>> (I can't rotate it and bi-directional would be great for my purposes
>>as long as I could get good gain.)
>
>You could make that work, but you'd be better off feeding the quads 8JK
>style.
>
>Directors do not direct, and reflectors do not reflect. They BOTH add
>directivity by phase shift of a re-radiated signal. The largest directive
>effect of directors and reflectors in quads and yagis is they **cancel
>radiation in unwanted directions**.
>
>Putting two parasitic elements in a system so they can "fight" each others
>effects would be bad.
>
>73 Tom

In a two-element quad, you can tune the parasitic element so you get a
bidirectional pattern with gain greater than a single loop. It might be
possible to add additional elements and tune them so they'd give further
enhancement to a bidirectional pattern. My intuition tells me that it
wouldn't be the best way to go, but who knows?

I'd do like an earlier poster suggested, and switch stubs in and out of the
parasitic elements to make them change roles. I've done this with a
2-element quad, and it should work with 3. With 4 or more, I wouldn't
expect more than one "reflector" to contribute much.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: QUESTION :ON QUADS
Date: 20 Aug 1996 06:17:31 -0400
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If you fed the quads 8JK style, the pattern would remain bi-directional
over a very wide frequency range.  With parasitic elements, even when
tuned for a bi-directional pattern, that would not be true.

If your goal is bi-directional coverage, space two quad elements 1/8 to
1/4 wl apart and feed them 180 degrees out of phase from a common line.
Useable bandwidth will be wider, the pattern won't change much with
frequency.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (mike del pozzo)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: QUESTION :ON QUADS
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:31:50 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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Hal Rosser <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Question for the antenna gurus out there:
>  Can I put directors on both sides of the driven element
>so my quad can be bi-directional instead of 1 refl and 2 dir's ? I'm
>thinking about 2 directors
>on each side for a narrow bidirectional pattern.
>  Or will this mess up the quad altogether ?
> (I can't rotate it and bi-directional would be great for my purposes
>as long as I could get good gain.)
>--
>Thanks for any input
>Hal Rosser KT4QE
>[e-mail]
Hello HAL,
I also like the lightswitch idea, although to be truly bi directional
(switching) array one might consider making both elements exactly the
same circumference. Then with each element ( spaced 1/4 wave apart)
feed them with 1/4 wave coax to the center of the boom. Then using a
low voltage relay or the like , you can switch directions rather
quickly. consider when fed in such a way the unactive element uses the
coax to add inductance to the loop and makes it longer. very similliar
to how the 4-square array works, only in two directions. This setup
would give you the forward gain , and F/B that you are looking for...
gud luck es 73
de KR4TG, Mike




From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:38 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Charles R. Hohenstein)
Subject: Re: R-7 Questions
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kevin
Fontes) wrote:

> Hello All,
> I have a Yaesu FT-900 connected to a Cushcraft R-7. The Rig is in the
> shack about 75 feet from the Antenna site. I have the R-7 mounted on the
> ridgeline of my garage at about 12 feet. I live in San Diego CA and the
> setup has been working great for the last two years.
>
> As an active duty naval officer I have been ordered to Omaha, NE.

"Ordered" is such an uncompromising, unambiguous word. In Clinton's navy
don't they just issue suggestions? :)


> I found
> a nice two story house in between two trees that are about 60 feet tall
> (in a neighborhood with no antenna restrictions!).

How far apart are those nice, high trees? If there is any usable distance
there, it would be interesting to see what you could do with a dipole,
even if the ends have to droop, as an alternative to the R7. It might be
nice under some conditions to be able to switch back and forth.
>
> I have two questions:
> 1) It looks like I have a great shack location that will allow the R-7 to
> be mounted right outside.  If the R-7 is within 10-15 feet of my
> Rig/Computer will I experience any interference (I have none with the
> present set up).

If I read you correctly, you mean station location and vertical antenna
both at ground level (power level unspecified). You might well run into
difficulties, particularly if you run any kind of power. I have to use
indoor antennas here and believe that this has led to problems with
corrupting data on floppies and possibly my hard drive; transmitting on
some bands knocks my modem off-line, etc. (Maybe some kind soul could help
us out and suggest some strategies for coping with computer use in areas
of magnetic fields). You might want to be extra careful to back up
frequently, to keep multiple backups, and to store floppies, ZIP disks,
etc. within an old metal filing cabinet or similar storage area.
>
> 2) Since it is a two story house Will I gain anything by mounting on the
> top of the second story?  I can easily mount it at roof level on the first
> floor.  If I mount it on the first floor roof will the second story
> structure degrade my transmitted signal?
>
You've lost me here. If it is a two-story house, how could you mount it at
roof level on the first floor? Perhaps a split-level house? In any case,
why not mount it on the second-floor roof, and get the R7 up as high as
possible? If there are no restrictions to prevent this, I don't see any
down-side.

Charles
N9SQE



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:40 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Edmund H. Ramm)
Subject: Re: R-7 Questions
X-Newsreader: nn 6.4.18
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[e-mail] (Charles R. Hohenstein) writes:

> [...]
>some bands knocks my modem off-line, etc. (Maybe some kind soul could help
>us out and suggest some strategies for coping with computer use in areas
>of magnetic fields).
> [...]

   Wind every (!) lead that comes out of your computer, keyboard, monitor,
modem, tnc, etc. around 5" long ferrite rods. This also helps the other
way 'round: no more QRM from your computer.

   73, Eddi

P.S. Apart from computers I also use an R7...
--
   [e-mail] - [e-mail] - DK3UZ@DB0HHT.#HH.GER.EU
               Linux/m68k, the best U**x ever to hit an Atari!
    Distribution of this message via the Microsoft Network is prohibited


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:43 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Reality Check - New limits on RF
Date: 21 Aug 1996 05:18:39 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
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When I was laying out a recent 80 meter 4 square, I really thought about the
RF safety aspect of the problem.  Looking at the ARRL handbook and tables, I
took the 1KW average power level of AM phone, which I don't use, or RTTY,
which I almost never use, and did some figuring.

Without going back to my notes, I figured that in a controlled environment,
for continuous carrier service, I thought that the operator position had to be

about 36 feet minimum, about an eighth wavelength, away from the base of
the nearest leg of such an array.  Of course that was based upon the ARRL
suggested graphs and so forth.....

Without really checking the numbers against the new suggested lower limits,
for that same array on CW, with a 50% duty cycle and a 50% character
power on to power off ratio on top of that, isn't the allowable distance for
a controlled environment going to be allowably even closer to an element
than 36 feet?   That would be even if you were in a contest environment
every day of the year!

On margin, using the old limits, it looked like to me that even at kilowatt
levels, a quarter wave of spacing was ample for even die-hard AM phone
addicts or even co-located broadcast stations....

I reached the instinctive conclusion that I shouldn't run a KW into an indoor
antenna or live under a tribander mounted at chimney top level with that
kind of power.

I wouldn't have done that anyway......

Has anyone really done any numbers checking for the low bands to determine
what is really going on here on 40, 80 and 160, yet?

Inquiring mind wants to know....   :)

Mike W5WQN
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:44 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fletcher, Bill J)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Recommendation for a simple 6 M beam
Date: 21 Aug 96 13:54:00 GMT
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Lines: 8
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
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I would like to build a beam for 6 meters. My requirements are it has to be
simple to build (not the most experienced person in building beam antennas)
and less than 15 feet in length. Thanks in advance for your ideas and
suggestions.

Bill Fletcher AF9B
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:48 1996
From: [e-mail] (Raymond A. Brown)
Subject: Re: RFI:  Reduce height J-Pole ???
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Date: 17 Aug 96 20:08:24 GMT
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John Evans ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Greetings,

  .. and salutations! :-)

:   Has anyone tried to reduce the overall length of a J-Pole, say for
: 2 meters, via a loading coil in the 1/2 wavelength section??  Any
: reason why this might be a good/bad idea??

  First off, the longer part of a j-pole is not 1/2 wave long, but 3/4.
That would make the overall antenna just under 5' tall.

  I haven't seen anyone try to put a coil in place on the 3/4-wave
portion. I have a feeling that it just won't work well, but I'm sure
someone might try it sometime. :-)

:   What I am looking for is a way to reduce the height of the J-Pole
: for mobile operation without requiring a ground plane.

  Sounds like you're playing with either a truck or a car that has a lot
of fiberglass. :-) In that case, nope, the 2m j-pole isn't for you. I
know of someone here in my town that did run a 2m j-pole on the top of
his '78 F250 4x4 pickup. He did recall snapping off his j-pole a time or
two on tree limbs. :-)

  No, a 1/4-wave stinger with a 4' x 4' piece of sheet steel underneath
(or the equivalent in aluminum-based tape) is what you need. Either that,
or 1/2-wave dipole. Oh, but that overall height again. Nope, sorry, that
won't work either.

  Good luck!

                                                _Ray_   KB0STN



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:49 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: RFI:  Reduce height J-Pole ???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 15:34:26 GMT
Lines: 57

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Raymond A. Bro
wn) writes:
>John Evans ([e-mail]) wrote:
>:   Has anyone tried to reduce the overall length of a J-Pole, say for
>: 2 meters, via a loading coil in the 1/2 wavelength section??  Any
>: reason why this might be a good/bad idea??
>
>  First off, the longer part of a j-pole is not 1/2 wave long, but 3/4.
>That would make the overall antenna just under 5' tall.
>
>  I haven't seen anyone try to put a coil in place on the 3/4-wave
>portion. I have a feeling that it just won't work well, but I'm sure
>someone might try it sometime. :-)
>
>:   What I am looking for is a way to reduce the height of the J-Pole
>: for mobile operation without requiring a ground plane.
>
>  Sounds like you're playing with either a truck or a car that has a lot
>of fiberglass. :-) In that case, nope, the 2m j-pole isn't for you. I
>know of someone here in my town that did run a 2m j-pole on the top of
>his '78 F250 4x4 pickup. He did recall snapping off his j-pole a time or
>two on tree limbs. :-)

A J-pole is just an end fed 1/2-wave vertical antenna with a 1/4-wave
matching stub. If you turn the stub portion at right angles to the
radiator, it works just the same (but is usually called an end fed
Zepp), and the overall height becomes a 1/4-wave shorter. Mount this
on a vehicle, and you can do away with the short arm of the stub and
just use the vehicle top for that. What you have left looks sort of
like you're trying to gamma match the vehicle roof, but you aren't.
Looks like this:


             |
             |
             | 1/2-wave
             |
             |
             |______ stub
   _____________x__|_________________ roof
                |
               coax

The 'x' is the coax connector through the roof and connection of the
inner to the remaining stub arm. I don't know what the hell the pattern
looks like, but you can get a match. If you have a fiberglass car, then
don't eliminate the short arm of the stub.

If that's still too tall, you can center load the 1/2-wave section
with a coil, but at that point you might as well go to a 1/4-wave
groundplane antenna instead.

Gary
--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | Due to provider problems
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | with previous uucp address
es
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | Email to [e-mail]
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The high current part radiates?
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 23:42:02 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4vau22$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Can someone explain the often heard statement that "the high current
>portion of the antenna does all the radiating". This kind of reminds me
>of the unqualified statement that "the tuner tricks the transmitter".
>
>Does an inverted V dipole put out a stronger signal than a "verted" V
>given the same average height?
>
>Does this come from the explanation that accelerating charges radiate?
>
>Chuck, KE9UW
>
Hoping not to re-open a "wiggling charge" debate, I'll state that the field
from the antenna is proportional to the current flowing on a conductor, and
the length of the conductor. And it's linear. That is, two amps on one
meter of wire will produce the same field as one amp on two meters of wire.

On a dipole or inverted vee near a half wavelength long, the current is the
largest at the center and tapers toward zero at the ends. The shape of the
curve is nearly sinusoidal. (It's more nearly sinusoidal for thin antennas
than thick ones.) By integrating, you can find that the contribution to the
field of the innermost 1/3 of the antenna is the same as from the outer
2/3. To look at it another way, imagine dividing half the antenna up into
short, equal-length segments. On each segment, put a weight equal to the
current at that segment. Then balance the wire. The balance point will be
1/3 of the way from the center.

Let's suppose you put an inverted vee up at a height of 50 feet, with the
ends at 20 feet. The point of average field-generating ability is 1/3 of
the way from the center, or 40 feet above the ground. You'll find that the
field strength and pattern from a straight dipole up 40 feet (which also
has its average field-generating point at 40 feet) is very similar to that
of the inverted vee with the top at 50 feet and ends at 20.

You can use this simple analysis to get an idea of what to expect from
half-wave vees bent various amounts, up or down.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:51 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The high current part radiates?
Date: 19 Aug 1996 23:30:39 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <4vatev$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: general2.asu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

C. J. Hawley ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Can someone explain the often heard statement that "the high current
: portion of the antenna does all the radiating". This kind of reminds me
: of the unqualified statement that "the tuner tricks the transmitter".

: Does an inverted V dipole put out a stronger signal than a "verted" V
: given the same average height?

: Does this come from the explanation that accelerating charges radiate?

: Chuck, KE9UW




There is both some truth and some fiction to this statement.

The magnetic field can be written as the curl of the vector potential.
In the usual Lorentz gauge with a single frequency (sinusoidal
time dependence) the vector potential at r is proportional to the
integral of the current density over r' times exp(-jk|r-r'|)/|r-r'|.
At large distances, the vector potential will have its largest
contributions from the regions with largest currents, so roughly
speaking larger currents produce larger radiation fields.

You can relate all this to accelerating charges by writing
the current of a moving charge and calculating the fields. Any
electricity and magnetism text will explain, but the bottom line
is that the radiation fields for a charge
are proportional to the acceleration of the charge as long as
the charge is moving at a velocity much less than the velocity of
light.

However, the current argument is not exactly true either since.  for a
simple thin wire dipole, the current is largest in the center and
nearly sinusoidal.  If you follow the power flow out of the
transmission line, you find that most of the power is channeled down
the dipole legs and then flows away from the antenna near the ends.
Similarly if you calculate the electric fields of a sinusoidal current
distribution on a thin wire dipole, the fields look like spherical
waves emitted, not from the center of the dipole where the current is
large, but from the ends of the dipole.

However, before discussing exactly what is radiating, and what
isn't you should answer whether you think a mirror radiates
or just redirects radiation that already exists. If the latter,
then your antenna also just redirects the radiation coming
out of the feedline. If the former, then your antenna does radiate,
but separating the various pieces is more of a semantic than
scientific undertaking.

73 Kevin [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:52 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The high current part radiates?
Date: 20 Aug 1996 06:07:07 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <4vau22$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>Hoping not to re-open a "wiggling charge" debate, I'll state that the
field
>from the antenna is proportional to the current flowing on a conductor,
and
>the length of the conductor. And it's linear. That is, two amps on one
>meter of wire will produce the same field as one amp on two meters of
wire.
>
>

I buy that, it's the current and total physical displacement of the
charges that matters for radiation fields....not the voltage.

That's why a fractional wavelength conductor with maximum current over the
maximum spacial length has maximum radiation resistance, and we can't fold
it or coil it to improve radiation resistance (by the IRE definition of
rr).

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:53 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dot.gov!usenet
From: fname (Name)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Trap Antennas
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:14:23 GMT
Organization: USCG
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <4veuap$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.211.149.10
X-Newsreader: Beame & Whiteside's BWNewsW Version 3.2

Any good ideas on 160/80 trap dipoles?


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:54 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (John Stroppel)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Tri-bander info
Date: 19 Aug 1996 17:07:48 GMT
Organization: The University of Iowa
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4va714$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: franklin.uhl.uiowa.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0]

Are there any OM out there that remember a three element tri-band antenna
that had loops on the end of the elements? This antenna would be about
1960 to 1970 vintage. I am looking for the tune up info. Going to put this
back up. The traps had a tuning slug ( made from alu. tubing) on the inside
of each end of the trap. A screw held the tube in place after adjusted.

Thanks   John  WA0VYZ


--
 John Stroppel                         | Internet: [e-mail]
 The University of Iowa - Hygienic Lab | Amateur Radio: WA0VYZ
 Oakdale Research Campus, OH-M7A       | Voice:    [phone]
 Iowa City, IA   52242                 | Fax:      [phone]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:55 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.alfred.edu!clicnet!news.clic.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!kelly.iaonline.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Rowley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Uni-Hat Vertical
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 12:31:54 GMT
Organization: InterACTION Online
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4v72i7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup12.iaonline.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Has anyone out there had any expierence with the CTSVR from Uni-Hat.
I would appreciate any comments. Please email to [e-mail].
Thanks and 73
Jim




From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:58 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!coopnews.coop.net!csnews!boulder!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.winterlan.com!frii.com!usenet
From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Use of Electrical Ground
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 21:02:28 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4v709f$[e-mail]> <4v7des$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftc-9.ppp.frii.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)

WB3U wrote:
>
>    [e-mail](Ted Tarantino) wrote:
>
> >Is there any reason why I shouldn't run my ground to the copper
> >electrical ground connection which I found attached to the copper
> >pipe on my water heater?
> >
> >I just moved into this house and this would be alot closer than
> >running a ground wire to a ground rod in the backyard (also easier
> >to install).
>
> Depending on the purpose of the ground, it may be wasted effort
> to connect the rig to either point.  It is very difficult to
> achieve a low resistance earth ground at RF, and even more
> difficult to connect to it in a way that preserves the low
> impedance on all HF bands.  Of course, if the antenna is balanced
> and fed correctly, RF grounding isn't necessary.
>
> If you are looking at these grounds for purposes of lightning
> protection or electrical power (AC) grounding, this issue has
> been discussed here many times.  Perhaps one of the previous
> authors has some boilerplate on the subject that he could post.
>
> 73,
> Jack  WB3U

Basically, I agree with Jack. When I installed a tower I made the base of
it the common point for RF and earth ground. This approach makes a lot of
sense if you research grounding instrumentation and attendant ground
loops.

W0MAY



From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:28:58 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!torn!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Use of Electrical Ground
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 15:35:48 GMT
Organization: RF Parts Disposal, Inc.
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4v7des$[e-mail]>
References: <4v709f$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail](Ted Tarantino) wrote:

>Is there any reason why I shouldn't run my ground to the copper
>electrical ground connection which I found attached to the copper
>pipe on my water heater?
>
>I just moved into this house and this would be alot closer than
>running a ground wire to a ground rod in the backyard (also easier
>to install).

Depending on the purpose of the ground, it may be wasted effort
to connect the rig to either point.  It is very difficult to
achieve a low resistance earth ground at RF, and even more
difficult to connect to it in a way that preserves the low
impedance on all HF bands.  Of course, if the antenna is balanced
and fed correctly, RF grounding isn't necessary.

If you are looking at these grounds for purposes of lightning
protection or electrical power (AC) grounding, this issue has
been discussed here many times.  Perhaps one of the previous
authors has some boilerplate on the subject that he could post.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:29:00 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!nntp.wwwi.com!news.goodnet.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Eric Oyen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wullenweber Antenna???
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 04:18:41 GMT
Organization: GoodNet
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4v8prb$[e-mail]>
References: <4v5s4g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempe-ts3-19.goodnet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Phil Biehl) wrote:
>I friend of mine has described what appears to be a Wullenweber
>antenna at a Naval Installation off the coast of Maine. Its a
>cylindrical shape with what appears to be elements attached radially.
>I'd like to get more info on this beast. Does anyone know of any
>sources of information on this device??
Phil,
I wish you all the best of luck! That antenna design is classified by
DOD and I can't even find reference to in in the local library (except
that the information printout indicated that it was "CLASSIFIED"). I
have asked locals around here at the Phoenix Naval reserve center, and
they aren't talking. Oh well. Good luck all the same.

Eric.




From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:29:01 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!wizard.pn.com!news-in.tiac.net!sunfish.hi.com!brainiac.hi.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Steve Byan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wullenweber Antenna???
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:13:34 -0400
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4v5s4g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: brainiac.hi.com

Wullenweber's are briefly described in the "Direction Finding" chapter of
my ARRL Antenna Handbook (my copy is roughly of 1990-vintage). They're
described as a variant of the Adcock array.

The US military had or has a bunch of Wullenweber arrays around the world.
These are the "AN/FLR-7" and "AN/FLR-9" DF system. The FLR-9 contains a
Wullenweber array, a number of CU-1388/FLR-9 antenna multicouplers (Fair
Radio was selling these over the past few years), and a boatload of R-390,
R-391, or modified R390A receivers.

Here's some more info from my clip-file:
> The big concentric antenna arrays used in the FLR 7 and FLR 9 are
> technically known as Woolenweber Arrays.  Their principle of operation is
> described in Jasik's "Antenna Handbook" for those antenna nuts among us. I
> have a friend who was in the Army Security Agency in Thailand assigned to
> one of these sites.  He alternately called it a "Flare 9" or "Glare 9".
> His specialty was the repair of R-390A receivers used at the site.
>
> Evidently the antenna array could be used in several modes.  With proper
> capacitive coupling to each (amplified) antenna output, a unidirectional
> pattern could be obtained.  A pseudo-Doppler method was also available for
> more precise direction finding.  A large number of receivers could be used
> simultaneously and the antenna switching system used a (relatively) modern
> computer system to do the switching and phasing.  However, good old R-390A
> receivers were the preferred receiver for their reliability and minimal
> phase noise.  Constant scanning up and down bands did cause premature wear
> of the R-390A RF deck "watchmaker's nightmare".  My friend said similar
> sites were located in England, Germany, Turkey, and elsewhere.

--
Steve Byan                                  internet: [e-mail]
Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
1601 Trapelo Road                           phone: [phone]
Waltham, MA 02154                           FAX: [phone]


From [e-mail] Wed Aug 21 13:29:02 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.alfred.edu!clicnet!news.clic.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.cts.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mark Schoonover <KA6WKE>)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wullenweber Antenna???
Date: 18 Aug 1996 16:35:22 GMT
Organization: WUN
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <4v7goa$[e-mail]>
References: <4v5s4g$[e-mail]> <4v7344$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: schoon.cts.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1


Yes -- you're correct. They are used for HFDF and are pretty
good at that. If I remember correctly, there are two antennas,
one for low band the other for high. Inside there is a special
switch arangement that samples all of the elements on both bands.
The operator looks at a CRT, and spikes appear on the screen. With
a trackball, the op moves the cursor around and hits a button to
send the coordinates to other sites around the globe. After that
it's simple triangulation.

HTH

73's

Mark

--
================================================================
Mark Schoonover, KA6WKE                   E-Mail: [e-mail]
San Diego, CA
 Kenwood R-1000, BC2500XLT, 66' Indoor Dipole, PK232MBX & JVFAX
               Stop the Net! I think I'm Gonna URL!
================================================================



In article <4v7344$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>[e-mail] (Phil Biehl) wrote:
>
>
>>I friend of mine has described what appears to be a Wullenweber
>>antenna at a Naval Installation off the coast of Maine. Its a
>>cylindrical shape with what appears to be elements attached radially.
>>I'd like to get more info on this beast. Does anyone know of any
>>sources of information on this device??
>
>>Thanks,
>>Phil Biehl, N7FWL
>>[e-mail]
>
>i dont have the issues, but check the indices for monitoring times and
>pop comms. mags. I recall seeing these antennas discussed there. I
>think they were used as HF DF antennas, developed by the germans. the
>US copied the design and seemed to find them effective.
>



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:28 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news2.whytel.com!usenet
From: "Jim Gerke, KC5OA" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: "New" Ken. TH-79AD?
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:04:31 -0700
Organization: Why? Network   [phone]
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.240.253.199
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)

I owned an original TH-79A (not the "D" model) on which I performed
the same mod. It expanded as advertised. Along the way I sold the 79A.
Later, my son and I each acquired TH-79A(D)'s. I modified both of them
using the same mod. Like yours, both of ours expanded to only 410-470.

Kenwood obviously made a change to the 79A(D) which changed the effect
of the mod.

73, Jim, KC5OA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:28 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Rob Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: "New" Ken. TH-79AD?
Date: 26 Aug 1996 08:54:01 -0700
Organization: Screw the EPA, they screw us.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4vshap$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: @198.68.46.16 (n7ory)
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Jim Gerke, KC5OA" <[e-mail]> wrote:


>Kenwood obviously made a change to the 79A(D) which changed the effect
>of the mod.

When the TH-79 first came out, amateurs were upset by the lack of a
memory lock-out feature. With 80 memories, one needs to have a way to
lock out certain ones while scanning.

Kenwood re-developed the CPU to add this feature, but as a side
effect, the extended receive coverage was shortened. It appears that
you performed the modification correctly. I have owned 2 TH-79s, one
new and one old.

Rob Neff (N7ORY)



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:29 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!news
From: Burt C. Cohen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re:***Heathkit Linear For Sale***
Date: 21 Aug 1996 19:54:05 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4vfpgt$[e-mail]>
References: <4ve7lh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dam-as5s32.erols.com
X-Newsreader: PROCOMM PLUS 3.0 for Windows

Good Luck getting $750 for it.  I have one & it is identical to the SB-220 exc
ept for the
cabinet.  You'll be lucky to get $450 for it.
73 de Burt, W3GG



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:30 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Jason Baack)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: 2M transverter?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 17:08:32 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vi46g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dali.umecut.maine.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

Hello,
Does anyone make a 2 meter transverter... (Something to 2 meters)
So I can run 2 meter ssb of my hf rig?
I know Ten-Tec has a 6 meter transverter.. How about 2 meters..

Jason   N1RWY




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:31 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!metro.atlanta.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news.frontiernet.net!mulveyr
From: [e-mail] (Rich & Katy Mulvey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: 2M transverter?
Date: 23 Aug 1996 22:16:12 GMT
Organization: Mulvey Home Node
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vi46g$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr8-21.frontiernet.net
X-Newsreader: slrn (0.8.8.2 UNIX)

On 22 Aug 1996 17:08:32 GMT, Jason Baack <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hello,
>Does anyone make a 2 meter transverter... (Something to 2 meters)
>So I can run 2 meter ssb of my hf rig?
>I know Ten-Tec has a 6 meter transverter.. How about 2 meters..
>

   I'd highly recommend Down East Microwave.  They have quality
kits and factory-assembled transverters, for just about every band from
DC to Daylight.

- Rich


--
My mailer has the unfortunate tendency to bounce 10,000 copies of any
junk mail I receive back to the sender.  Be warned.





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:32 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cobalt.nvt.net!news.solgate.com!news.mid.net!wormer.fn.net![e-mail]
From: Ken Bessler <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: 2M transverter?
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:03:04 -0500
Organization: Feist Connections
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vi46g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mark129.fn.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I)
To: Jason Baack <[e-mail]>

Jason Baack wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Does anyone make a 2 meter transverter... (Something to 2 meters)
> So I can run 2 meter ssb of my hf rig?
> I know Ten-Tec has a 6 meter transverter.. How about 2 meters..
>
> Jason   N1RWY
>

Hamtronics does. They advertise (full page) in 73 magazine.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:33 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!sloth.swcp.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Brian Mileshosky, N5ZGT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: ==> WANT: HyGain Tape Measure Antenna <==
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:31:08 GMT
Organization: Southwest Cyberport
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4vqd1q$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp126.swcp.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23827 rec.radio.swap:71854 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31899

Hello Eveybody,
  I am looking for a HyGain tape measure dipole antenna.  This antenna
is actually two tape measure built into one piece, including the
feedpoint.  All you do is pull out the apporopriate amount of tape to
operate on your frequecny, and you are on the air!
  If you, or anybody you know, has one of these antennas for sale,
please E-Mail me as I am interested in taking it off your hands!
  Thank!
72/73,
Brian, N5ZGT


 _________________________________________________________________________
   Boy Scouts of America                 Amateur Radio - N5ZGT
    Eagle Scout - 1996            ARRL   QRP: NorCal# 1700   QRP-L# 580
     JASM - Troop 41           Author of Worldradio's "Youth Forum" Column
    Albuquerque, N.M.            Packet: N5ZGT @ KC5IZT.ALBQ.NM.USA.NA
  O.A. Lodge 66  <-W-W-W-<<             Internet: [e-mail]
 _________________________________________________________________________




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:34 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!metro.atlanta.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: AC6V <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: a suggestion
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 06:49:10 -0700
Organization: Author
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: esc-ca1-24.ix.netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 27  8:48:36 AM CDT 1996
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)
To: [e-mail]
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.cb:30348 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31910

Nemo wrote:
>
> Hi folks!
>         We want  (i and my friend) to entry into CB-world, but we are
> completly ignorant :) about this argument...
>         Can somebody tell us some infos?
>
> How to start, the basilar things, ecc...
>
> Please help us!
>
> REPLY VIA E-MAIL, because we don't want to fill this newsgroup with
> annoyng messages.
>
> Bye!
>
> Cox & Nemo.

Hello Cox and Nemo
Greetings from San Diego, California

There is a "Getting Started in CB Radio" page at URL:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet-faqs/bygroup/rec/radio/info
/_radio%3acb-faq%3apart2.html

Or you can use a search engine to find many pages about CB. Try the
Lycos Power Search at URL:
http://www.lycos.com/lycos-form.html

Amateur Radio info can be found at URL:
http://www.arrl.org/newham.html

Good Luck
Rod
--
Hark for I have hurled my words to the far reaches of the earth!
What King of old could do thus??
..... AC6V


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:36 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!fozzie.mercury.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!mr.net!winternet.com!clio.trends.ca!worldlinx.com!news.bellglobal.com!news
From: burt lang <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: AEA PK-80 and PK-90
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:57:51 -0700
Organization: Bell Global Solutions
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p56.rocler.qc.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)

The PK-80 was AEA's clone of  the TAPR TNC-2.  Still perfectly good for
1200 bps packet and is upgradable with add on modems for 9600.  Virtually
same as MFJ-1270.  Suggest upgrading the firmware with latest TNC-2 or
PacComm Tiny-2 firmware.

I have at least 4 of the PK-80s currently in service as TheNET nodes in
our network.

Never heard of a PK-90.  Might have been a commercial version.  If it
looks the same layout as the PK-80,  try dropping the TNC-2 firmware into
it and making sure that the modem is tuned to 1200/2200 freqs as per the
TNC-2 calibration instructions.

Since these TNCs are approximately 10 years old, suggest checking the
backup battery and reburning the state eprom.  See article at

http://www.cam.org/~radio/halflife.html

for further details.

Burt  VE2BMQ



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:37 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.discover.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Tim Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Afraid to install Mirage 300 in my car
Date: 22 Aug 1996 16:16:13 GMT
Organization: DiscoverNet
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vi14d$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: redlands-ppp19.discover.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

I just picked up a Mirage B5030G 300W 2M amplifier that I want to use
when I go on camping trips. I already know that my FT-211 at 50W just
BARELY gets into a repeater from my favorite spot (when I'm lucky)
 But, I also understand that it's possible to destroy some car's
computer with a strong RF field. Does anybody know how to find out if
your car is one of the ones that will fry?

TIA, 73
KE6JZR



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:38 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!news.dseg.ti.com!news
From: [e-mail] (D.W.Hemphill KC5NG)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Alinco DJ-F1T
Date: 22 Aug 1996 16:51:25 GMT
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4vi36d$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cna0952843.dseg.ti.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Hi All,
>
>I just purchased a new Alinco DJ-F1T 2m HT.  I REALLY like this radio,
>and I'd like to share my experiences.  First, I got a great deal on it,
>only $188 from HRO.  Secondly, the receiver sensitivity is one of the
>best on the market, and it shows. Thirdly, one big problem with HT's
>these days is that they get too damn hot.  The way the battery fits on
>the back of the radio allows for long QSO's without the thing warming
>up.  I performed the AM receive mods, and I have enjoyed listening to
>aircraft from nearby Logan Airport.  This has got to be the best HT I've
>ever used, and I've owned many types.  If someone is looking for an HT,
>check this one out!!!
>
>Good luck
>73
>Happy Hamming,
>Adam, N1QBK


I agree 100%.  I've owned my DJ-f1T(hp) for several years, and I have
never owned a better all-around performer in a handheld.  Sensitivity
on the aircraft band is astounding, better than any of my three VHF
scanners (Cobra, Uniden, Realistic).  Performance on 2m is superb,
with plenty of clean speaker audio, and excellent transmit audio.  It
has enough "bells and whistles" to keep even a seasoned gadget freak
occupado for days on end, and many of these features are actually
useful!  The construction quality is tops, and it has a great "feel"
to it... like it's built to last.  I highly recommend this handheld!

73 de KC5NG



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:38 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!spool.mu.edu!daily-planet.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!usenet
From: Ken Wyatt <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Any info on Icom IC-701.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:08:14 -0700
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co.
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vj9iv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kw2852.col.hp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)

Carl Hodder wrote:
>
> Can someone tell me if the IC-701 has any problems to look out for
> and if it's rated as a good transceiver? Any mods out for this radio?
> I don't see any on any sites I've checked. Does anyone still own
> or use this model radio?I have used one for quite some time.  Seems to be a
decent radio with the
(non-WARC) bands 160-10m.  I know of no modifications available for the
radio (if you mean the standard "opening the receive/transmit frequency
range").


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:39 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild!news
From: Montbach/Bartlett <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Any mods for the hw-5400?
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:28:42 -0400
Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc.
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: caspar.tiac.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; I)

Anyone know of any mods for the hw-5400 heathkit hf rig. Looking for wider rec
ieve. any
help would be appreciated. tnx, Will, N1PXA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:40 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!globe.indirect.com!s82.tucslip.indirect.com!user
From: [e-mail] (WSNP)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Any storm spotters out there?
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:57:06 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: s82.tucslip.indirect.com

"Storm Chaser" by Warren Faidley.

The critically acclaimed book is now in it's second printing!!!!

Stunning book includes 100 breathtaking, graphic severe weather
photographs of tornadoes, lightning, hurricanes, supercell storms and
hail. Also features adventure stories, easy to understand explanation of
severe weather mechanics, graphics and extensive glossary. Published by
The Weather Channel.

Complete data and sample photos at:

http://www.indirect.com/www/storm5/scbook.html

Or order directly at 1-800-544-6206
(A free catalog of weather videos, poster, etc. is also
available at this number.)

Enjoy!

Warren  KB7TVO


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:41 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Chris Paul Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Any words about a TS-940/AT
Date: 25 Aug 1996 00:35:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vo750$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: atl-ga10-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24  7:35:44 PM CDT 1996

hello Do you have an words to say, good or bad about the TS-940. I have
been looking for a good HF rig, and was wanting to see if anyone knew
anything about it.

TNX 73 de
AE4XO
Chris, Marietta, GA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:42 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news
From: "Brian D. McKinley, Ph.D." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Balun Balls
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:41:56 -0700
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: svcr-84ppp183.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT  (Win16; U)

I have read about them but can't find them.  Does anyone know of a bourse
for RG-8 coax (or any other for that matter)?


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!news.mag-net.com!ve7tcp.ampr.org!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Sergio A. Monteiro)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Cell pin-out
Date: 25 Aug 96 20:32:34 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Does anybody have the pin-out connection of Technophone PC-305 cellular
telephone?
Sergio -PY3BAM



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!news.frontiernet.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (robbin decker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: cheap 2M HT FS/swap
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 05:13:57 GMT
Organization: Frontier Internet Rochester N.Y. (716)-777-SURF
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4voce4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr1-67.frontiernet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.swap:71800 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31876

Icom  IC2AT thumbwheel  w/TTP, large batt (tired) and charger, works
FB, looks scruffy, 1st 75 bucks prepaid shipped to your door, great
knockaround or packet TX, also swap fopr HH scanner or ? Email replies
please



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:45 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.theramp.net!n9jig
From: [e-mail] (Rich Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Chicago, IL Tower Installer Needed
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:10:52 -0500
Organization: Sentry Publishing
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vda8p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mund-ip-2.theramp.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b13

Jeff:

Try Stann, Stann, and Associates in Park Ridge.  They handle mostly
commercial accounts, but can point you in the right direction if they
won't handle your job.




In article <4vda8p$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (N9MXT1) wrote:

** Hello,
**    My family and myself are moving within the next month or two.  Well, I
** am planning to buy a 55' tower for the yard.  Many of the people I've
** helped in the past and friends of mine are not really healthy enough to
** really take on this type of challenge.  I was wondering if there in the
** surrounding area who has a crew that does tower installations for a
** living.  Also, if you know of someone I can get a hold of for installing
** towers please let me know.
**
**       Email me if you know of anyone.....     Thanks   N9MXT1 - Jeffrey

--
Rich Carlson, N9JIG ([e-mail])

ScannerMaster Illinois Communications Guide [phone]

CARMA (Chicago Area Radio Monitoring Association) BBS [phone]
PO Box 2681, Glenview IL 60025    SASE for sample newsletter.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:46 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.netone.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (scotgray)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Drake "C" line backlash. A cure?
Date: 24 Aug 96 03:00:30 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

I have a mint Drake R4C receiver. Works Great. I also have a Drake TR-4
which I recently purchased at a swapfest. The TR-4 seems to have been
built during the "B" line era; Tunning knob has the 1 KHz markings on
the Dial Skirt. The "C" line has a concentric window still announcing a
1 KHz resolution. My question is about "backlash" or a tighter, less
smoothing feel on the "C" line, wheras the R4, R4A, TR-4 and R4B have a
much smoother feel. Is this normal for the "C"? Can it be fixed?

Also Looking for a AC-4 or AC-3 AC power supply.

Thanks!
Scott KD6CQ
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:47 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!news.unimelb.EDU.AU!inferno.mpx.com.au!news
From: Alistair Harding <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Ex Military Radio Equipment
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:49:21 -0700
Organization: Microplex Pty Ltd
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.14.164.105
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)

Greetings All

I am collecting ex military radio equipment. One of the pieces in my
collection is an australian Field Radio Test Set, model OA-FI-AI,
6625-66-100-5448
6625-66-025-5304
I believe it was constructed in 1971

If anyone has any info on this particular item (circuit diagrams,
operating instructions etc) could you please contact me.
Also if you have any old items for sale (preferably working) please let
me know.

I can be contacted via e-mail on:
[e-mail]

or by snail-mail:

Alistair Harding
PO Box 138
Charlestown
NSW  2290
Australia

73's, VK2LLL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:47 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!news.uk0.vbc.net!news.netkonect.net!vulcan.baynet.co.uk!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: fones
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:45:35 GMT
Organization: Baynet Internet Services
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4vh6to$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp1.baynet.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82


taking offers on the following
today i have
200 bt amber
340 motorola tac/flips/no-flip
250 p100
250 nec p3
150 panasonic f1
1000 alcatel hb100/200 hands free kits new+boxed
1000 bt amber hands free kits new+boxed
500 nec p100 hands free kits new+boxed
old bt ivory,s/ batteries/chargers
second hand bt pagers

note phones do not have batteries or chargers
--
matt

--
matt
email or tel [phone]
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:48 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!news1.agis.net!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Tom Phillips <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: For Sale: Tek 453 Dual Ch. Scope
Date: 22 Aug 1996 21:42:12 GMT
Organization: AB5ZJ
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4vik7k$g8p$[e-mail]>

Tektronix 453 Dual Channel Scope for sale.  This is a 50mhz scope
with a delay time multiplier that extends actual readings to over
110mhz (actual measurments).  Has Original manual and 1 10x probe.
Unit is in mint condition, not dents, or missing knobs, or
scratches on panel.  Price: $650.00


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news2.interlog.com!news.dra.com!news.goodnet.com!news
From: John Lanza <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS UHF HT
Date: 22 Aug 1996 15:22:18 GMT
Organization: GoodNet
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4vhtva$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: svm-ts1-13.c2i2.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
        boundary="-------------------------------220225191344"
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---------------------------------220225191344
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--


---------------------------------220225191344
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain

ICOM F40LT-2 UHF Cml. Transceiver (Hand Held)
420 Mhz-470 Mhz (Plus)
DTMF PAD and A/N Display
99 Memories,6 Banks,16 channels ea. Bank
BM-96 Quick Charger, CM-140 extra Battery back
UT-80 2-Tone unit
OPC-427 Programming cable
EX-1489 Programming Software.
Owner's and programming Manual's,
The radio is also field programable

Cost new $1124.50
SWS Security sells the same for $781
Everything NIB

$600 Plus shipping




---------------------------------220225191344--


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS Yeasu FL 7000 amp.
Date: 25 Aug 1996 00:15:11 GMT
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bastion.dejanews.com
X-RTcode: 232bd9e0320f5311871f9b5c
X-Originating-IP-addr: 206.13.45.141 (ppp41.humboldt1.com)

Yaesu FL 7000 amp.

No tune solid state with built in ant. tuner.

$1200.00

Ron, KM6KX

[phone]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
    http://www.dejanews.com/      [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News!]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:51 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Lloyd Colston <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.ham-radio.packet,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS/trade KPC-3 TNC
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:42:41 +0600
Organization: http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/KC5FM/index.html
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp008.viagrafix.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.swap:71634 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31802

I have a KPC-3 TNC in working condition for sale or trade.  I
would prefer a trade for a working two-meter FM transceiver.  I would
prefer synthesized.
        What have you?
--
*********************************************************

K       Lloyd Colston            mailto:[e-mail]
C       Pryor, OK  USA     mailto:[e-mail]
5       Jesus is Lord                 Living to serve
F       http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/KC5FM/index.html
M      http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/1924/index.html
         Success  comes  in  cans;  not can'ts
       Business consulting, writing, telecommunications
*********************************************************


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:52 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.eng.convex.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.uoknor.edu!news
From: "Jim Speck" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: Down East Microwave 2m Transverter Kit
Date: 21 Aug 1996 18:00:59 GMT
Organization: OSEEGIB
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <01bb8f8a$1516dfa0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.87.67.67
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Never opened this kit, paid $300,  take $150 or ??
includes low noise receive and transmit converter, operates on 12vdc.
1 watt input: 26-30 mHz w/ xtal included (can change to 28-30, etc.)
up to 25 watts output 144-148 mHz.

73, Jim KK5BX



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:53 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsgate.div.melpar.esys.com!inpc12
From: [e-mail] (Dale Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.swap
Subject: FS: HP432A Power Meter and HP478 Thermistor Mount
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 15:33:44 GMT
Organization: E-Systems
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vhukn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inpc12.sy.melpar.esys.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31800 rec.radio.swap:71629

I have a working HP432A power meter and the associated HP478
thermistor mount for sale. I will include the power cable and a
copy of the manual appropriate to this power meter's S/N. Price,
including shipping within the 48 states, is $150. I established
this price by taking Tucker's price and dividing by 5. First one
to respond via E-Mail is the winner.
                                        Thank you, Dale


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:54 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!w7gz
From: Dave Phillips <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.swap
Subject: Re: FS: HP432A Power Meter and HP478 Thermistor Mount
Date: 22 Aug 1996 10:04:03 -0700
Organization: Primenet [phone]
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vi3u3$[e-mail]>
References: <4vhukn$[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: w7gz@206.165.5.105 (w7gz)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31817 rec.radio.swap:71648

Dale Allen <[e-mail]> wrote:
: including shipping within the 48 states, is $150. I established
: this price by taking Tucker's price and dividing by 5. First one

I think the correct algorithm is to take Tucker's price and divide by 10.

Dave W7GZ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:55 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.wco.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Kay Fule)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: ICOM duel band HT
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:32:07 GMT
Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <321dce1c.25300056@199.4.94.14>
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I'm selling my Icom Z-1A with detachable face plate. IT's brand new.
I've only used it for 1 month. It is a true duel band, with cross
duplex. I've only used it in the car. It has a special tone squelch
and everything. This one of the best I've ever used. I bought it for
$450, and am willing to sell it for $350 FIRM.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:56 1996
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From: ZIPNET <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap;,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: Icom IC-W21AT Dual Band HT
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:32:53 -0400
Organization: Ashland High School
Lines: 13
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I have for sale an Icom W21AT dual bander.  It is in very good
condition, and I have all the original box, manuals, etc.  It is capable
of full 800MHz receive, and 50-300. 300-500 as well with good
sensitivity.  Also has full duplex cross band repeater built in.  I am
asking $260 firm.  This is the best price you can get on an HT of this
sophistication and condition, trust me -- you'll love it.  I really have
no use for the 440 side, and I would like to get a 2 meter only HT.
Please respond to:
[e-mail] or call [phone] before 10:30 eastern.  You pay
shipping.

Thanks, and 73
Adam, N1QBK


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:57 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: MOTOROLA SPECTRA 900 TRUNKING RADIO
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:20:02 -0700
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 5
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FS: MOTOROLA SPECTRA 900 TRUNKING RADIO

MD#  D37KGA5JB7CK        $ 450 OBO

MD#  D37KGA5JB5DK        $ 400 OBO


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:58 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: MOTOROLA SPECTRA 900 TRUNKING RADIO
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:05:42 -0700
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 5
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FS: MOTOROLA SPECTRA 900 TRUNKING RADIO

MD#  D37KGA5JB7CK        $ 450 OBO

MD#  D37KGA5JB5DK        $ 400 OBO


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:47:59 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: MOTOROLA SPECTRA 900 TRUNKING RADIO
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:11:46 -0700
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 5
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FS: MOTOROLA SPECTRA 900 TRUNKING RADIO

MD#  D37KGA5JB7CK        $ 600 OBO

MD#  D37KGA5JB5DK        $ 550 OBO


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:00 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: Motorola Spectra for sale
Date: 22 Aug 1996 18:03:56 GMT
Organization: Sense Networking (http://www.oz.net)
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <4vi7ec$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ereeves.oz.net
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Motorola Spectera for sale 900Mhz make offer.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:01 1996
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From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: FS: Motorola Spectra for sale
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:03:18 -0700
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vi7ec$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Motorola Spectera for sale 900Mhz make offer.


WHAT MODEL IS IT????

WHAT ACCESSORIES ARE INCLUDED???


THANKS,

BILL HARWOOD
AB6DY


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:01 1996
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From: Tom Phillips <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: FS: Tektronix 453 scope
Date: 22 Aug 1996 21:47:59 GMT
Organization: AB5ZJ
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vikif$g8p$[e-mail]>
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16734 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31777 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16460 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106034

For Sale; Dual Channel 50mhz Tektronix 453 scope.  This scope has
a delay time multiplier, and extends the actual frequency meas. to
over 110mhz (actual measurments).  Has original manual, and a 10x
probe.  No dents, scrathes, and all funtions work.  No bulbs or
LED's burnt out.

Price: $650.00
Contact Tom (AB5ZJ) at [e-mail]   or leave reply here


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:02 1996
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From: Chris Wineinger {N9PPX} <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,wi.forsale,
Subject: FS: UHF Maxtrac, 16 ch., 440-470, 40 watts
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:12:54 -0500
Organization: Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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CC: [e-mail]
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.swap:71678 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31833 wi.forsale:11118

Motorola maxtrac UHF 440-470, 16 channel, 40 watt radio, Comes with
power cable, mobile mounting bracket, backlit DTMF microphone.
NOTE: This unit has been my "coffee table" radio and has never been in
mobile. (Even has those stick on rubber feet on the bottom of it.

$350.00 Firm + shipping F.O.B. only Con. U.S.

Email me at [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:03 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: Raymond Roberts <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS: Yaesu FT8500 DualBand Mobile
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:43:18 -0500
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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I have a FT8500 2m/440 mobile the original Smart Controller microphone
and the recently introduced back-lit model as well as the FSK8500
separation kit.  This is one of the finest mobiles on the market today.
The extra microphone and separation kit add $175 to the new cost of the
radio, but I'll ship UPS COD for $600 - total package.  If ur in market
for radio of this type u can't beat price !  Was in car 3 months


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:04 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS:NEW YAESU BATTERYS & SPEAKER MIC
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:26:06 -0700
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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FS:NEW YAESU BATTERYS & SPEAKER MIC

FNB-31  $ 40 +SHIP
FNB-38  $ 50 +SHIP
FNB-40  $ 35 +SHIP
FNB-41  $ 40 +SHIP


NEW YAESU SPEAKER MIC

MH-12    $ 20 + SHIP


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:06 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS:NEW YAESU BATTERYS & SPEAKER MIC
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:18:17 -0700
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.18.19
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FS:NEW YAESU BATTERYS & SPEAKER MIC

FNB-31  $ 40 +SHIP
FNB-38  $ 50 +SHIP
FNB-40  $ 35 +SHIP
FNB-41  $ 40 +SHIP


NEW YAESU SPEAKER MIC

MH-12    $ 20 + SHIP


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:07 1996
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From: John Lee <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS:NEW YAESU BATTERYS & SPEAKER MIC
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:11:15 -0700
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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FS:NEW YAESU BATTERYS & SPEAKER MIC

FNB-31  $ 40 +SHIP
FNB-38  $ 50 +SHIP
FNB-40  $ 35 +SHIP
FNB-41  $ 40 +SHIP


NEW YAESU SPEAKER MIC

MH-12    $ 20 + SHIP


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:07 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: "J.W." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FS:Uniden Bearcat200XLTScanner
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:35:59 +0500
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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200XLT,cellular capable, extra battery, charger,case. little use best
reasonble offer. jeff


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Blackshadow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: FT-51R Soft Mod NEED INFO
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:39:59 GMT
Organization: OSI
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4vqh7f$[e-mail]>
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          When pressing both volume and call keys on power up. You get a menu.

      Band 1
      IF NO 0         Need to know how to set these undocumented options?
      S-FULLxx
      S-1xx
      SQL THxx
      SQL TIxx

 N2RVM
 [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:09 1996
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From: Bill Crocker <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: FT50 ADMS bug
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:16:45 -0500
Organization: Rust Net - High Speed Internet in Detroit  810-642-2276
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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To: Joakim Gustafsson <[e-mail]>

Joakim Gustafsson wrote:
>
> There must be a bug in the ADMS-1C software.
> If You chose Wide FM or AM for receive mode in memory programming will it be
 changed to
> Narrow FM when You click OK. So fare I can see is there no way to program a
memory
> position to anything else than Narrow FM using the ADMS-1C ver 1.01 or is th
ere ?
> My way is to program all memory frec offsets etc from the softw and after se
nding it to
> the FT50 manually select recv mode for each memory positon and resave each p
osition that
> needs anything else than Narrow FM.
> If You then reload the memory from FT50 to the PC will the new receive mode
be there BUT
> !!!!!
> Dont click OK after viewing the memory. Then will it be back to Narrow FM !!
!!
>
> Is RT system Inc and/or Yaesu aware of this bug?
>
> 73 de SM7LOQ
> Joakim Gustafsson
> Sweden


Joakim:

Try e-mail'ing RT Systems at:  [e-mail]

Bill Crocker


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:10 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infinet.com!crenshaw!ed.welch
From: [e-mail] (ED WELCH)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Generators-any ideas?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 23:50:00 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: The Crenshaw County BBS/Luverne, AL/334-335-3968/ CHEAHA!!!
Reply-To: [e-mail] (ED WELCH)
References: <[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.21
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.10
Lines: 22

-> Convenient, yes?  Definitely!!  Does it meet NEC code?  No.  Further,
-> if your p ower goes out and you crank up
-> the gen set and don't have the feeder isolated, you're also
-> energizing the util ity lines and everything
-> UPSTREAM!!  Sooooo, that 13.5 kv transformer up the road is now being
-> backfed f rom the little Honda gen set in
-> the basement.

...and, if there's an unfortunate linesman upstream who believes the
lines are dead and suddenly he grabs a "safe" cable......

We had a lot of generator users down here in south Alabama after
hurricane OPAL caused massive power outages.  The REA had several close
calls with people who were unknowingly backfeeding from their
generators. Luckily all went well and no one was hurt or killed.  I did
see one older guy with REA who I respect both personally and
professionally really get bent out of shape over one generator hookup...
...there were 4 linesmen up the poles when they found out a commercial
generator was down the road only about a mile.  FWIW.

73, Ed Welch, KF4KRV
Luverne, Alabama, USA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:11 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.mcn.org!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dan Richardson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Generators-any ideas?
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:45:00 GMT
Organization: LPS Systems
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4vlj55$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: an1-men-a21.mcn.org
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (BOB ALBERT) wrote:

>And worse yet, when the main power comes back up your generator may
>become history..

>73 DE K6DDX

Living on the north coast of California where we are accustom to power
outages. (The last one was for more than one week.)

The first rule is to open the mains before starting the generator.
Because 1) my generator will not power my neighbors and myself and
2) when the power is restored the generator will not become tost.

73 - Danny, K6MHE



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Doug D)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Good Aircraft Rec on 2M Mobile?
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:23:26 GMT
Organization: The DataXchange Network, Inc
Lines: 42
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4uvfh3$[e-mail]>
References: <4udp09$[e-mail]> <4ut1jv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: s11.lrbcg.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Bob Fritz) wrote:

>I have an ICOM 2000 and it works fine here in San Diego for the channels
>have recorded. But all the military stuff is UHF so all you hear are
>commercial and private, mostly going to LA.

>In article <4udp09$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>>
>>What 2M mobile out there has good aircraft rec?
>>
>>I know Azden does, but of the big guys, which rig is
>>acceptable.
>>
>>I have a 229H and had a TM-241, and they were both bad.
>>But my Kenwood HT has good air rec, just like one would
>>expect from a scanner (it is a TH-27).
>>
>>Any reports?  How about the Icom 2000?
>>
>>73 de tom
>>Tom Marcotte
>>[e-mail]
>>[e-mail]
>>Lafayette, LA, USA
>>Home of the University of Louisiana at Lafayette
>>Ragin Cajuns

My Alinco DR-150T does a more than adequate job of receiving
in the aircraft band.

Doug
KC8CGX




--
Send a FREE message to your military family member.
North American Center for Emergency Communications.
(NACEC)
http://www.nacec.org



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:13 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Grundig YB500
Date: 22 Aug 1996 15:58:48 GMT
Organization: US Naval Research Laboratory
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4vi03o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: santangelo.nrl.navy.mil
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Newsreader: <QVT/News ver. 4.0>

Can someone point me to a review of the Grungdig YB500?


Thank you.

Pat Santangelo


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:14 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!NEWS!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Mike Maynard)
Subject: Ham Satellite Equipment For Sale/Trade
Message-ID: <8197cc$131a15.18e@NEWS>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:28:53 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
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I have the following Ham Radio Satellite equipment for sale or trade.
I am looking for a Kenwood TS830 HF rig or an AEA Pk 232 all mode
controller. All equipment was purchased new and is in excellent
working condition.

Yaesu G-5400 Az/El Rotator
Ten Tec Mode B Satellite Station
Mirage 100W 430-450 Amplifier

Any interest, reply or send email to [e-mail]





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:16 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Heathkit Mohican Schematic needed.  Please help!
Date: 22 Aug 1996 20:03:27 GMT
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bastion.dejanews.com
X-RTcode: de2f6dd3320f6fd0b41cbd0d
X-Originating-IP-addr: 161.63.115.32 ()

In article <4ur6vf$[e-mail]>,
    [e-mail] (Mr. Allan H. Moyse) wrote:
>
> I'm looking for the schematic for the above shortwave reciever
> (Heathkit Mohican).  Can anyone help?  thanks in advance,
>            Brain
>
Hello Brian.  Boy, if anyone answers your request, let me know.  I've got a be
autiful Mohican myself and wouldn't mind aligning it.

Take care and 73,

Peter  N8EVJ

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
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From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Kilgore)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Heathkit Mohican Schematic needed.  Please help!
Date: 23 Aug 1996 13:53:52 GMT
Organization: Tivoli Systems, Inc. - Austin, TX
Lines: 26
Sender: kilgore@wichita (Jeff Kilgore)
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4vkd5g$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wichita.tivoli.com

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> In article <4ur6vf$[e-mail]>,
|>     [e-mail] (Mr. Allan H. Moyse) wrote:
|> >
|> > I'm looking for the schematic for the above shortwave reciever
|> > (Heathkit Mohican).  Can anyone help?  thanks in advance,
|> >            Brain
|> >
|> Hello Brian.  Boy, if anyone answers your request, let me know.  I've got a
 beautiful Mohican myself and wouldn't mind aligning it.
|>
|> Take care and 73,
|>
|> Peter  N8EVJ
|>
|> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|> This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
|>     http://www.dejanews.com/      [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News!]

Try W7FG Manuals. They probably have the Mohican manual. You can
access their web page at http://newton.eigen.net/w7fg.

No connection, other than a satisfied customer who has found several
needed manuals there.

73,
Jeff Kilgore, KC1MK


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:18 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!news.peak.org!billn
From: [e-mail] (Bill Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Help with high SWR
Date: 24 Aug 1996 06:27:00 GMT
Organization: Public Electronic Access to Knowledge,Corvallis,US
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4vm7bk$[e-mail]>
References: <4vlhg4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peak.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Bob Lucas ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I am getting very high SWR readings...    I have a TS690, going TO a 6M
:  175 w. brick, going to a MFJ tuner/wattmeter, to my antenna.  When I
: just run the rig and the antenna, the SWR is minimal, when I put all
: that stuff in line, the SWR reading on the TS690 is sky high, yet the
: SWR on the output side, the meter next to the antenna, is low...

Why are you using the tuner, if the SWR is low on direct?

: Why do I see such a high SWR at thge rig, and a low SWR on the antenna
: end? Am I explaining this right?

: When all hooked up, the rig shows 10:1 sert, the  final SWR show s
: 1.1//// help

Maybe you are adjusting the tuner incorrectly?  What happens when the
tuner is connected up, but on direct - e.g. bypassing the tuner?

Can you tune up into the dummy load, with a good SWR? You should be able
to do so.

I have never had this problem, but have never tried to use a tuner on
antennas with less than a 2:1 mismatch.

Bill


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:19 1996
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From: [e-mail](Galen m.Barnaby)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Help with high SWR
Date: 25 Aug 1996 03:46:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4voibg$[e-mail]>
References: <4vlhg4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vic-ca1-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 10:46:56 PM CDT 1996

I bought a MFJ SWR meter. When ever I put it in line, my SWR went up.
any other meter showed the antenna ok.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:20 1996
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From: Jeff Carlson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Help! Yeasu FT-2400H Display problem.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:47:41 -0500
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial114.skypoint.net
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I've owned the FT2400H for years with out a hitch. All of a sudden,
the display goes haywire. Seems to be randomly indicating segments of
the display. Freq reads ***** instead of a number, each segment is shown
as enc, dnc, low, but not having anything to do with the settings
of the radio. The unit seems to still listen and transmit on the
programmed freqs, but I have no idea what they are.

Anybody seen this problem?  can you help?
Please respond by post reply if possible.

Jeff Carlson
1-800-295-0083


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!atdbbs!clint.bradford
From: [e-mail] (Clint Bradford)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: HT suggestions
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:37:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: ATTENTION to Details BBS - Mira Loma, CA
Distribution: world
References: <4v10vf$[e-mail]>
Lines: 9


>>I was considering a R/S HTX-202, but have heard of a lot of folks
>>having trouble with them.

I have purchased two of them in the past two years - and not a single
complaint. MOST of the problems you have seen/heard are NOT from newer
production runs of the HTX-202.

A solid, reliable performed, indeed.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: HT600 UHF Motorola
Date: 23 Aug 96 14:27:18 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Hi There, I have 4 Motorola HT600 HT's with drop in chargers. They are 2
channel UHF with touch tone pads. I am looking to find out how much they
are worth $$$ The model number on the back or the unit is H44SVU7120AN THE
FCC ID IS: AZ489FT4701 .
Thank You Alan  My E-Mail is [e-mail]--
*****************************************************
*            Alan       [e-mail]          *
*****************************************************


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:22 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Thomas Gasta <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: HT600 UHF Motorola
Date: 25 Aug 1996 00:35:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4vo746$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 28.columbus-1.oh.dial-access.att.net
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To: [e-mail]

Hello,

Lately UHF HT600s are running in the $200-$250 range. This is VERY
dependent on them being the 449-470 version and not some off the wall
490-520 or 406-430 type.  Good radios and with the DTMF and charger, $250
probably wouldn't be to much.

Tom



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rich & Katy Mulvey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: htx 202 mods?
Date: 23 Aug 1996 22:12:21 GMT
Organization: Mulvey Home Node
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4uvhhh$[e-mail]> <01bb8b02$05124720$f519369d@wokka> <4v4b19$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr8-21.frontiernet.net
X-Newsreader: slrn (0.8.8.2 UNIX)

On 17 Aug 1996 11:39:21 GMT, Bob Winingham <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Would a small circuit change that allowed 9600 baud Packet on the 202
>be a MODS ?? Or is MOD a three letter code that means
>Modulation Outside of Design Spec.  :-)
>

   But you don't even have to make a circuit change - my HTX-202 does
a fantastic job on 9600bps packet just by using the appropriate taps.
Unless you count the hole I drilled in the case as a mod, of course.  :-)

- Rich


--
My mailer has the unfortunate tendency to bounce 10,000 copies of any
junk mail I receive back to the sender.  Be warned.





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:24 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Walter R Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: htx 202 mods?
Date: 24 Aug 1996 03:25:22 GMT
Organization: The hand that uses the Amiga is the hand that rules the world.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4uvhhh$[e-mail]> <01bb8b02$05124720$f519369d@wokka>
        <4v4b19$[e-mail]> <4v7i9t$[e-mail]>
        <[e-mail]> <4ve4jr$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: node-01-11.dialin.uky.edu
X-Newsreader: THOR 2.22 (Amiga;TCP/IP) *UNREGISTERED*


On 21-Aug-96 04:50:29, Jim Johnson articulated:

>... --- -- . --- -. .  -. . . -.. ...  - --- -.- .. -.-. -.-
>-.-- --- ..- .-.  .- ... ...  - .... . .-. .  -... ..- -..  .-.-.-

Someone needs to kick your ass there bud.  Forget a --..--?

Get a life, dork..

--
 -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.. .
 .  Walter Francis                                               _. KT4LH  .
 -         HP48GX  Alinco DJ580  Icom 281  Kenwood 530S         o:o        -
 .  [e-mail]                                   Life begins on 80  .
 --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...--  ..



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:25 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!barney.gvi.net!mv!news.NH.Destek.Net!jolt.pagesat.net!news.netserv.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (Jim Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: htx 202 mods?
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:50:29 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4ve4jr$[e-mail]>
References: <4uvhhh$[e-mail]> <01bb8b02$05124720$f519369d@wokka> <4v4b19$[e-mail]> <4v7i9t$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 14.seattle-1.wa.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Walter R Francis) wrote:




>Someone needs his humor pill, levels in the body seem to be dangerously low.
>Indicated by total lack of imagination and ability to see sarcasm when it is
>plainly stated.

>>73, Jim

>Hope you get better Jim!

>--
> -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.. .
> .  Walter Francis                                               _. KT4LH  .
> -         HP48GX  Alinco DJ580  Icom 281  Kenwood 530S         o:o        -
> .  [e-mail]                                   Life begins on 80  .
> --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...-- --... ...--  ..


... --- -- . --- -. .  -. . . -.. ...  - --- -.- .. -.-. -.-
-.-- --- ..- .-.  .- ... ...  - .... . .-. .  -... ..- -..  .-.-.-

--... ...--





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:26 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!news.wildstar.net!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.mira.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nntp.coast.net!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!slider.bme.ri.ccf.org!kira.cc.uakron.edu!marconi.w8upd.uakron.edu!sherman
From: [e-mail] (David Sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: HTX-212 help
Date: 22 Aug 1996 22:30:45 GMT
Organization: University of Akron Amateur Radio Club
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4vin2l$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: marconi.w8upd.uakron.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I didn't catch the name of the original sender, but I have an HTX-212.  Your p
roblem dealt with how to clear the s1-s5 scan block frequencies.  I discovered
 by accident that if you press shift when you are in the mode to set the s1 fr
equency, this will clear it.  No, they don't tell you this in the manual, I ju
st found out by accident.  73, Dave

--
              _____           _____
     /    /  /    /  /    /  /    /  |    /
    /|   /  /    /  /    /  /    /  /|  //
   / |  /  /----/  /____/  /    /  / |/ /
  /  | /  /    /     /    /   \/  /    /
 /   |/  /____/     /    /____/  /    /


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:27 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!ames!tulane.edu!usenet
From: Cedric Walker <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: HTX-404 PL problems
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:50:51 -0500
Organization: Tulane University
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup02.tcs.tulane.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)

My HTX-404 works perfectly EXCEPT that it won't open repeaters that
are CTCSS-only blocked.  I can work non-PL repeaters easily.  I've
gone through all the programming and verification steps in the manual,
and the display says it's transmitting PL tones.

Good news:  I have extended warranty, took it to RS, it came back as
completely checked out with no problem found.  I even had the store
manager verify that it is programmed to transmit PL tones.

Bad news: I tested against an FT-530 that has PL decode, and the
FT-530 did not notice any transmitted PL tones.  the HTX-404 still
won't open PL-only repeaters, either.  Conclusion: it still does not
transmit PL tones, though everything else works fine.

Is this a "known" problem?  I'd like to have a bit more ammunition in
hand when I take it to RS for service again.

Thanks in advance!

Cedric KC5NLJ
New Orleans LA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:28 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!battery.awod.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Glenn E. Little)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: HTX-404 PL problems
Date: 25 Aug 1996 02:09:27 GMT
Organization: Amateur Radio WB4UIV
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4vockn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: chs0048.awod.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

In article <[e-mail]>, Cedric Walker <[e-mail]
> says:
>
>My HTX-404 works perfectly EXCEPT that it won't open repeaters that
>are CTCSS-only blocked.  I can work non-PL repeaters easily.  I've
>gone through all the programming and verification steps in the manual,
>and the display says it's transmitting PL tones.
>
>Good news:  I have extended warranty, took it to RS, it came back as
>completely checked out with no problem found.  I even had the store
>manager verify that it is programmed to transmit PL tones.
>
>Bad news: I tested against an FT-530 that has PL decode, and the
>FT-530 did not notice any transmitted PL tones.  the HTX-404 still
>won't open PL-only repeaters, either.  Conclusion: it still does not
>transmit PL tones, though everything else works fine.
>
>Is this a "known" problem?  I'd like to have a bit more ammunition in
>hand when I take it to RS for service again.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Cedric KC5NLJ
>New Orleans LA


See if a local radio shop or a technical ham can look at
the transmitted signal in a communications monitor.
This will tell if it is transmitting tone.
They can also verify the frequency of the tone (if any).

73
Glenn Little
WB4UIV


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:29 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cmc.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary Fiber)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: IC-706 problems
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:57:05 GMT
Organization: Chambers Multimedia Connection
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4vpq03$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm2-16.edmonds.cmc.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Dr. Lawrence W. James) wrote:

>Here are a couple of problems with the Icom IC-706.
>Does anyone have a solution?

>The mike has no DTMF keypad for using autopatch or the other tone
>controlled features on many 2 meter repeaters.  There is no optional mike
>listed which has them either.  Is there any DTMF mike which will work,
>both physically and electrically?

>The manual lists available tuning steps (in the TS mode) as .1, 1, 5, 9,
>10, 12.5, 15, 20, and 100 khz.  It actually is .1 ,1 ,5 ,9 ,10, 12.5, 20,
>25, and 100.  This is not too handy for 15 khz repeater spacing.  Is there
>any magic key combination which will allow the 15 khz tuning step?

>The tension seems almost non-existent on the tuning knob with the lever
>all the way down.  Is there any way to adjust it?

>KG0GB

The 15 Khz tuning step is a misprint in the manual, the radio never had that
tuning step.

Gary



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:30 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news-master!news
From: Ben Johnson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: IC-738 AutoTuner Problems?
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:34:45 -0400
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc022038.concentric.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)

I just bought an IC-738 HF rig. I would appreciate any comments from
other IC-738 or 736 owners regading the performance of the autotuner.
Either my rig is not working properly or my expectations for the
autotuner's performance ar set too high. Here is what I am seeing.

Using my G5RV multi-band dipole the best SWR achieved (as measured with
an external meter is around 2.5 - 1 at 20mtrs. It gets worse at 40 and
evn worse on 80. At first I assumed antennea problems so I took the rig
to another hams location where he had multiple antenneas to play with.

On his tri-bander at twenty meters it would autotune to around 1.6 -1.
On 40 meters it would autotune to 1.1 -1 at the ssb portion of the band
but tune to 2.0 -1 at the CW portion. With out much effort and using an
external ant. tuner (bypassing the autotuner) we could easily achieve
1.1 matching all across the HF spectrum using the appropriate ant. Yet
what should be a fairly easy task for an auto tuner turned out to
be, more often than not, a disapointing performance (3.0 -1 and
sometimes greater SWR).

Again, if anyone has one of these rigs I would like to hear about your
rigs performance re. the autotuner. My basic concern is, do I have a
problem with a brand new rig?  Thanks in advance for your input.

Ben Johnson


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:31 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!News.CP.Duluth.MN.US!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: ICOM 730 Foibles
Date: 23 Aug 1996 10:55:49 GMT
Organization: Organization For the Salvation of our Frequencies
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4vk2nl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vhju2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]

says...
>
>Hi,
>
>Just picked up a used 730 for mobile HF and wondered what to look for in
>problems with the rig.  Thanks!
>
>Larry, KE8GW

Larry:

Hate to break it to you, but I have had one for a long time and it does what
the darn book says it will and thats about it. Never had problem one. In fact
I
am in process of trying to trade it for something that might be more exciting!
Have fun .
Jim N0EXP



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:32 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Lawrence Wald)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: ICOM 730 Foibles
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:32:33 -0400
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vhju2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lwald.lerc.nasa.gov

Hi,

Just picked up a used 730 for mobile HF and wondered what to look for in
problems with the rig.  Thanks!

Larry, KE8GW


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:33 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!news.eff.org!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!newsroom.gsfc.nasa.gov!usenet
From: [e-mail] (NR3O, Chris Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Icom-to-Computer Interface (Including IC-706)
Date: 22 Aug 1996 14:57:22 GMT
Organization: Hughes Team (EOSDIS)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4vhsgi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lo-pc2105.hitc.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

This is response to the many requests for such info I've seen of late:

There are some shareware programs like LogEQF and commercial programs
which support the Icom CI-V interface.  I built a hardware interface
kit from JBI (800-524-8658).  This kit connects the serial PC port to
the radio and includes several shareware programs at least 2 of which I
got to work fine.  (If the software doesn't explicitly include a 706
option, you can try the Icom 735 or comparable CI-V standard which
worked in one case for me.  The 706 set-up menu has port addressing
selectable, so some combination/tinkering I found to work.)

The kit has EVERYTHING needed.  You basically build a small circuit
board into the 232 "D" shell (an isolator/driver) and connect it via
the supplied shielded cable and 1/8" plug to the CI-V socket on the
rig.  You get freq. readout on the PC as well as mode (maybe one other
parameter), depending on the software you use.  I think some software
will also get you control over the rig (at least mode & freq.)--I was
thinking of trying AEA's Windows Log, but it's commercial at $49.  (I
haven't found any software that I liked very much, but am still in the
market.)  I think I paid around $30 for the JBI kit and was very
pleased.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:34 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!usenet
From: [e-mail](Anthony R. Gargano)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: info icon ic-706 need, your know this tx? (EB3FYJ)
Date: 22 Aug 1996 01:38:04 GMT
Organization: The Pipeline
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4vgdls$[e-mail]>
References: <4vc6pm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.8.137.3
X-PipeUser: n2ss
X-PipeHub: nyc.pipeline.com
X-PipeGCOS: (Anthony R. Gargano)
X-Newsreader: Pipeline v3.5.0

Have been using a 706 mobile on a trial basis for about a week after long
experience using the TS-50S and a 50W 2 meter rig in the car. If you need
DC thru 2 meters in 1 box then 706 is obvious way to go. But the TS-50S
receiver is head and shoulders above the 706 in a mobile environment.
Problem is one) high level  of inherent receiver background noise and two)
susceptibility to induced noise from power lines and the like.
Interestingly, there is no problem with ignition noise. Also, for my
travels the 10W on 2 meters just isn't enough. One man's experience and
opinion. Good luck with your choice. N2SS


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:35 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!inet-nntp-gw-1.us.oracle.com!nntp-hub.barrnet.net!informix.com!informix.com!news
From: Randall Rhea <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: info icon ic-706 need, your know this tx? (EB3FYJ)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:41:20 -0500
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vc6pm$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.147.101.98
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6Gold (WinNT; I)
To: Alfonso <[e-mail]>

Alfonso wrote:
>
> I want buy an HF  transceiver.
> Iwant to know your opinion of IC-706.
> e-mail:[e-mail]  :-)

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rhea/icom706.htm


--
===================================================
Randall Rhea                   [e-mail]
Informix Software, Inc.        Sr. Systems Engineer


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (JUSTIN CARTER)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: info needed
Date: 22 Aug 1996 17:06:55 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ (USA)
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vi43f$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (JUSTIN CARTER)
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


What is a fair price for a used permanent tower in the 40-50" range??
--
"There's a fine line between eccentrics and geniuses.  If you're a little ahea
d
of your time, you're an eccentric, and if your a little to late, you're a
failure, but if you hit it right on the head, you're a genius.  So I have neve
r
worried much about eccentricity."       Tom Watson Jr., IBM


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:37 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!metro.atlanta.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!isdnlin.mtsu.edu!news.isdn.net!news
From: John Hettish <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Info on Galaxy V
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:25:01 -0700
Organization: Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)

I'm looking for a manual, and/or schematic for the Galaxy V transceiver.
 A friend in the UK has come across one minus the tubes (valves) and
would like to get it running.

John Hettish
K4WJZ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:38 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!szdc!news
From: [e-mail] (Luke Lester)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Instructions for Regency Z30 "30 channel scanner"
Date: 23 Aug 1996 02:22:26 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vj4l2$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2)

If anyone had the instructions to use a Regency Z30 scanner please e-mail me a
t
[e-mail].


                                        Luke Lester
                                        KB8MXZ - Tech+



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (JimMason)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Insurance and Lightning protection
Date: 22 Aug 1996 05:20:56 GMT
Organization: Queen's University
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vgqno$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: toll1-slip134.tele.queensu.ca
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

Hi,

I'd be interested to know what requirements concerning grounding and
lightning protection are included in any insurance policy you might have on
your ham equipment. I'm particularly interested in club station insurance
policies.

Please reply by e-mail to [e-mail]

Thanks very much.

Jim Mason


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:39 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Marco Magnano)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: International Radio
Date: 25 Aug 1996 20:02:57 GMT
Organization: Video On Line
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vqbhh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: molct25.vol.it
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

Hallo to all the Hams
Does anyone knows the e mail address of International Radio
in Fort Pierce, Florida?
The make crystal and mechanical filters for HF and also other things.
If avalaible please mail to me at
[e-mail]
Thanks
IT9WPO Marco


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:40 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newshub.csg.stercomm.com!newshub.itd.sterling.com!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!crcnews.unl.edu!news.inetnebr.com!news.wildstar.net!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netaxs.com!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sptimes.com!news.packet.net!usenet
From: "Ken Southwell" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Just upgraded and looking for recommendations
Date: 20 Aug 1996 16:05:25 GMT
Organization: PacketWorks Public Newsserver
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <01bb8eb0$ea98eea0$82e8f0cd@southwel>
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

Hi,

My name is Ryan, KE4GEN, and I just upgraded to Tech Plus. Seeing that I
have HF privledges, I would like some recommendations for good radios which
I can also use when I get my General. Tnx in advance,

Ryan KE4GEN
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:41 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!usenet.cisco.com!pchow
From: [e-mail] (Peter Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Kenwood IF-10B
Date: 22 Aug 1996 16:45:24 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vi2r4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: polka.cisco.com
Summary: Kenwood computer interface
Keywords: Kenwood, TS-940, IF-10B
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I just called Kenwood parts department and ordered the IF-10B for
$74.95. They have it in stock. This is the computer interface chip
that needs to be installed before the TS-940 can talk to your computer.
I was told that the IF-10B was discontinued for a long time and this
is probably the last batch of IF-10B that Kenwood will ever make.

Thanks for all the people who responded to my previous posting
and provided the lead to Kenwood.


73,
KF6DLT


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:42 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Darryl)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Kenwood TH-22AT Handheld still in the box
Date: 23 Aug 1996 04:21:12 GMT
Organization: iSTAR Internet Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vjbjo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts31-12.tor.istar.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have a Kenwood TH-22at Handheld that is brand new used about 10
times, with external mike, car adapter etc.. I 'm in Toronto and will
ship via Fex Ex.

Does someone want to make me an offer on it ??

                Darryl Bousquet, VA3 API [phone]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Alex E.R. Leman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Kenwood th-22at Mods
Date: 24 Aug 1996 05:56:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vm5id$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sjx-ca56-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 10:56:29 PM PDT 1996

Looking for any and all mods for Kenwood TH-22at

thanks,

Alex




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!realtime.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Kenwood TK-278 TK-270 mods need
Date: 26 Aug 1996 14:06:23 GMT
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bastion.dejanews.com
X-RTcode: c2132ea1325f2ee42d21af09
X-Originating-IP-addr: 193.124.51.77 (whale.gu.kiev.ua)

For All.

Did this handheld works in frequency mode, and how one modify ?
I'm looking for all mods for Kenwood TK-278 (TK-270).
Please answer via e-mail: [e-mail]

73
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
    http://www.dejanews.com/      [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News!]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:48 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Kenwood TM-732A Kenwood not owning up to defects
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 11:17:24 PDT
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <NEWTNews.5225.841170096.Postmaster@hfs08>
References: <4vt6bs$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


Craig, KB8KPV writes:

> I just got of the phone with the general manager of Kenwoods serv dept,and h
e
> is not owning up to the fact that the TM-732a duo bander radio has a big
> problem with the finals both vhf(S-av17) and uhf(M57788MR) both went ot in m
y
> radio at the same time using low power, also I have two other friends that
have
> the same radio with the same problem.
>
> To buy the replacement parts for the S-AV17 cost $85.00 and M57788MR at
125.00
> gee I didn't want to buy a new radio...
>
> if you have had a similar problem would you let me know I think its time
> Kenwood stand up for their products..
>
> Craig KB8KPV.. [e-mail]
>
>

I lost the 2M final section shortly after my radio went out of warranty.  Sent

it to Kenwood for repair and it cost well over $100 parts and labor.  I almost

never use the 70 cm side and no problem there so far.

Postings in this news group about a year ago suggested that the heat sinks for

these finals as produced at the factory were not adequate.

No problem for the last year or so.  But if it goes again I may consider
replacing the radio instead of repairing.

73 de Tim KF9WX



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:49 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Palomar/Texas Star Mobile Amps
Date: 24 Aug 1996 07:53:24 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 46
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vmqfk$[e-mail]>
References: <4vjq6o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4vjq6o$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Doug D) writes:


>All of the Palomar, Texas Star, Boomer, Thunderbolt,
>Messenger, Silver Eagle, Shooting Star, etc. are advertised
>as Class AB-1.

Right, and I can make 500,000 a year buying HUD real estate with my credit
card, and shampoo restores life to my hair....

AB1 indicates a tube amplifier NEVER draws grid current, and conducts for
more than half and less than all of the signal cycle. The sub-script 1 is
useless in a bipolar amp, since any bipolar amp that draws base current
over the entire RF input cycle is class A, and any class AB amplifier does
not draw base current over the entire RF input cycle is class AB, B, C or
higher.

Right away that's a red flag telling us they are pulling data from their
"rear sides".

Here's a good test for linearity. First, look at the bias circuit. If the
bias circuit does NOT have a low dynamic impedance, changing base current
will change bias. Good linearity in a high power solid state PA generally
requires an active (regulated) bias source. A 100 ohm resistor feeding a
shunt diode is NOT a good SSB bias system.

Next, drive the amp with a CW signal and watch the ratio of output power
to drive power. If the ratio of drive to output power suddenly changes a
large amount anywhere below any maximum power level you expect to use (say
from zero to 100 watts), the amplifier is non-linear and will splatter.
This isn't the best test, and it will miss some problems, but it's simple.

>Proposition: I have in my drawer a Deer Hunter 100, 100 watt
>linear for 3-30 MHz. am/fm/auto ssb;
>If a regular from this group would be willing to test &
>report the findings to the group, I will donate the amp for
>testing. It is new, still in the box, and comes with a
>schematic.
>
>Let me know if you have adequate testing facilities and are
>willing...

I can measure it here Doug, and return it. That's part of what I do for a
living. Or you could do the simple gain compression test I outlined above.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Palomar/Texas Star Mobile Amps
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:12:34 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vogb2$[e-mail]>
References: <4vmqfk$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4vmqfk$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:


>over the entire RF input cycle is class A, and any class AB amplifier
does
>not draw base current over the entire RF input cycle is class AB, B, C or
>higher.

Woops...that should be ", and any *bipolar* amplifier that does not draw
base current over the entire RF input cycle is class AB, B, or C or
higher.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Want SB-100 Scope
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 00:27:48 GMT
Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4vitqt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmm.wat.hookup.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have a fellow ham looking for an SB-100 scope.
tnx & 73 John VE3DOS



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:51 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Jason Baack)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: LOOONG wait for MFJ 9406
Date: 22 Aug 1996 19:21:05 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vibv1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dali.umecut.maine.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

Just called MFJ about their 6 meter radio. (9406)
Due to a current lack of " trained testers",
they said that they are currently filling orders from 6 months ago.
(I already had a two month wait)
So, I dropped my order.  Going for a transverter now..
(What was Ten-Tec's # :)  )

Just some FYI

J  -- N1RWY   FN 54kd  (On six soon I hope !)



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:52 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!wizard.pn.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.tetherless.net!news.virtual.org!hip-hop.hh.sbay.org!dave
From: [e-mail] (David Black)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Unofficial "manual" for TH-59/89 HTs here
Date: 23 Aug 1996 08:57:17 GMT
Organization: The Virtual Organization
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4vjrpd$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hip-hop.hh.sbay.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

A while back a friend of mine brought back from Akihabara
in Tokyo a couple Kenwood TH-59 1.2 GHz HTs, and a TH-89
430/1.2 HT.

Him, his wife and I pored over the Japanese manuals and I
wrote up a couple English "manuals" of my own. Just an organized
list of specs and explanations of what does what.

I have posted the manuals:

        http://www.relay.net/~dave/th59.manual
        http://www.relay.net/~dave/th89.manual

They are straight ASCII text files. Corrections are
invited if you spot any errors.

I also have a mod for the TH-89 that expands the RX range to
5 separate bands, including 800-960. This was supplied by Kenwood
Japan. I *don't* have an expanded TX mod for the TH-89 or any mods
at all for the TH-59 - Kenwood Japan said there aren't any. Luckily the
1260-1300 range of those radios is enough for US 1.2 repeater work.
Maybe Kenwood is not pulling my leg, but I don't want to believe
440-450 is locked out of my TH-89 forever... until then I'll keep
hoping :)

If you want the above mod, let me know and I'll type it in and
post it as well.

If you have any other mods for these radios, please do send
a pointer or post them here. Especially expanded TX for the TH-89!

73,

Dave  KE6AJC
<[e-mail]>


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:53 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!oleane!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!soap.news.pipex.net!pipex!Thomas.generics.co.uk!usenet
From: Phil Wakely <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: 23 Aug 1996 12:05:57 GMT
Organization: Scientific Generics Ltd.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4vk6r5$[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pgw_pc.generics.co.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.antiques.radio+phono:21547 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23757 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16750 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31838 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16495 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106081 rec.radio.amateur.space:7404 rec.radio.cb:30273 rec.radio.scanner:55432 rec.radio.shortwave:77978 rec.radio.swap:71700 rec.video.satellite.dbs:33326 rec.video.satellite.europe:7170 rec.video.satellite.misc:5491 rec.video.satellite.tvro:31147

[e-mail] (Tim Gerchmez) wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:46:16 GMT, [e-mail] (Gregg) wrote:
>
>
>>>Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh ernyyl bhtug gb trg bhg zber
>>
>>Url!  Jung xvaq bs n penpx vf gung?  :-D
>
>Urururur.. V gubhtug EBG13 jnf bhg bs qngr.. guvf vf gur svefg gvzr
>V'ir frra vg hfrq va dhvgr n juvyr ;)
>

Jung vf/jnf EBG13 ??









From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:54 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.bb.net!news.blarg.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Tim Gerchmez)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 01:01:48 GMT
Organization: Blarg! Online Services - 206/441-9109
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]> <4vk6r5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup25.blarg.net
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On 23 Aug 1996 12:05:57 GMT, Phil Wakely <[e-mail]> wrote:

>[e-mail] (Tim Gerchmez) wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:46:16 GMT, [e-mail] (Gregg) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh ernyyl bhtug gb trg bhg zber
>>>
>>>Url!  Jung xvaq bs n penpx vf gung?  :-D
>>
>>Urururur.. V gubhtug EBG13 jnf bhg bs qngr.. guvf vf gur svefg gvzr
>>V'ir frra vg hfrq va dhvgr n juvyr ;)
>>
>
>Jung vf/jnf EBG13 ??
>

Tvira gung lbh rapbqrq gur nobir, lbh onfvpnyyl nyernql xabj jung vg
vf.  Vg'f n fvzcyr Hfrarg rapbqvat zrgubq (sbetbg jurer vg bevtvangrq,
fbzrbar ryfr pbhyq cebonoyl gryy lbh).  V unqa'g rire frra vg hfrq
orsber hagvy guvf guernq fgnegrq.  Zl arjfernqre (Ntrag .99S) vapyhqrf
n EBG13 rapbqre/qrpbqre, fb V'z abg qbvat guvf ol unaq ;)


--
Check out my home page at http://www.blarg.net/~future/index.html
I'm a volunteer at the Win95 Help Site.  Drop by if you need help with Win95.

http://www.isisnet.com/terrymo/index.html


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:56 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-9-2.ots.utexas.edu!user
From: [e-mail] (Kenneth E. Harker)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:47:13 -0500
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]> <4vk6r5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-9-2.ots.utexas.edu
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.antiques.radio+phono:21575 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23787 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16758 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31863 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16507 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106120 rec.radio.amateur.space:7405 rec.radio.cb:30303 rec.radio.scanner:55491 rec.radio.shortwave:78016 rec.radio.swap:71775 rec.video.satellite.dbs:33389 rec.video.satellite.europe:7180 rec.video.satellite.misc:5500 rec.video.satellite.tvro:31171

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tim
Gerchmez) wrote:

> On 23 Aug 1996 12:05:57 GMT, Phil Wakely <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >[e-mail] (Tim Gerchmez) wrote:
> >>On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:46:16 GMT, [e-mail] (Gregg) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh ernyyl bhtug gb trg bhg zber
> >>>
> >>>Url!  Jung xvaq bs n penpx vf gung?  :-D
> >>
> >>Urururur.. V gubhtug EBG13 jnf bhg bs qngr.. guvf vf gur svefg gvzr
> >>V'ir frra vg hfrq va dhvgr n juvyr ;)
> >>
> >
> >Jung vf/jnf EBG13 ??
> >
>
> Tvira gung lbh rapbqrq gur nobir, lbh onfvpnyyl nyernql xabj jung vg
> vf.  Vg'f n fvzcyr Hfrarg rapbqvat zrgubq (sbetbg jurer vg bevtvangrq,
> fbzrbar ryfr pbhyq cebonoyl gryy lbh).  V unqa'g rire frra vg hfrq
> orsber hagvy guvf guernq fgnegrq.  Zl arjfernqre (Ntrag .99S) vapyhqrf
> n EBG13 rapbqre/qrpbqre, fb V'z abg qbvat guvf ol unaq ;)

Gur svefg checbfr V rire fnj EBG-13 hfrq sbe (onpx va 1991 be gurernobhgf)
jnf gb uvqr rvgure gur chapuyvar bs be na ragver wbxr gung jnf cbgragvnyyl
bssrafvir be bs n evfdhr angher, cercraqrq jvgu n pyrnegrkg qvfpynvzre, fb
nf gb nyybj gur vaqvivqhny ernqre gur bcgvba bs jurgure be abg gb ivrj gur
zngrevny.  V'z fher gurer ner bgure tbbq ernfbaf sbe vg nf jryy.

Nf gb jurer vg bevtvangrq, vg'f n irel fvzcyr Pnrfne pvcure gung'f orra
nebhaq n ybat juvyr (fvapr ng yrnfg gur qnlf bs Whyvhf Pnrfne) - lbh whfg
fuvsg rirel yrggre 13 fcnprf va gur nycunorg (jenccvat nebhaq nf
arprffnel.)  V'z abg pregnva jung "EBG" zrnaf be jurer vg pnzr sebz,
gubhtu.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth E. Harker                               [e-mail]
University of Texas at Austin                     Amateur Call: N1PVB
Department of the Computer Sciences                "Long Live Peent!"
Taylor Hall TAY 2.124        Maintainer of the Linux Laptop Home Page
Austin, TX 78712-1188 USA     http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/
---------------------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:48:59 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news3.near.net!shore!news
From: [e-mail] (GeorgeS)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:07:26 GMT
Organization: shore.net
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4vqfae$[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]> <4vk6r5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail]
 says...

>Nf gb jurer vg bevtvangrq, vg'f n irel fvzcyr Pnrfne pvcure gung'f orra
>nebhaq n ybat juvyr (fvapr ng yrnfg gur qnlf bs Whyvhf Pnrfne) - lbh whfg
>fuvsg rirel yrggre 13 fcnprf va gur nycunorg (jenccvat nebhaq nf
>arprffnel.)  V'z abg pregnva jung "EBG" zrnaf be jurer vg pnzr sebz,
>gubhtu.
>

My guess is ROT13 is short for ROTATE 13. If you imagine the alphabet on a
wheel, you would cipher the text by rotating the wheel 13 spaces



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:00 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: 25 Aug 1996 22:09:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4vqiur$[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]> <4vk6r5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vqfae$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pax-ca7-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25  5:09:31 PM CDT 1996
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.antiques.radio+phono:21632 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23835 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16776 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31906 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16532 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106164 rec.radio.amateur.space:7420 rec.radio.cb:30342 rec.radio.scanner:55561 rec.radio.shortwave:78063 rec.radio.swap:71865 rec.video.satellite.dbs:33485 rec.video.satellite.europe:7197 rec.video.satellite.misc:5516 rec.video.satellite.tvro:31208

In <4vqfae$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (GeorgeS) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail]
 says...
>
>>Nf gb jurer vg bevtvangrq, vg'f n irel fvzcyr Pnrfne pvcure gung'f
orra nebhaq n ybat juvyr (fvapr ng yrnfg gur qnlf bs Whyvhf Pnrfne) -
lbh whfg fuvsg rirel yrggre 13 fcnprf va gur nycunorg (jenccvat nebhaq
nf arprffnel.)  V'z abg pregnva jung "EBG" zrnaf be jurer vg pnzr sebz,
>>gubhtu.
>>
>
>My guess is ROT13 is short for ROTATE 13. If you imagine the alphabet
on a wheel, you would cipher the text by rotating the wheel 13 spaces
>

By goom, you're right!  I did it the hard way - I noticed Ken Harker
had capitalized a V in the middle of one of his sentences.  I assumed
this was "I" (what other single letter do we capitalize?) and
translated (rotated) the alphabet accordingly.  Everything fell out
nicely from there.

After deciphering "If you can read this, you really ought to get out
more," I decided the effort greatly outweighed the rewards!

- Jeff (wrss)




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:02 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news1.inlink.com!news.dra.com!news.starnet.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!News.CP.Duluth.MN.US!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: 26 Aug 1996 04:13:51 GMT
Organization: Organization For the Salvation of our Frequencies
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4vr89v$[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]> <4vk6r5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vqfae$[e-mail]> <4vqiur$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: pmi0.cp.duluth.mn.us
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In article <4vqiur$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>In <4vqfae$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (GeorgeS) writes:
>>
>>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>[e-mail]
 says...
>>
>>>Nf gb jurer vg bevtvangrq, vg'f n irel fvzcyr Pnrfne pvcure gung'f
>orra nebhaq n ybat juvyr (fvapr ng yrnfg gur qnlf bs Whyvhf Pnrfne) -
>lbh whfg fuvsg rirel yrggre 13 fcnprf va gur nycunorg (jenccvat nebhaq
>nf arprffnel.)  V'z abg pregnva jung "EBG" zrnaf be jurer vg pnzr sebz,
>>>gubhtu.
>>>
>>
>>My guess is ROT13 is short for ROTATE 13. If you imagine the alphabet
>on a wheel, you would cipher the text by rotating the wheel 13 spaces
>>
>
>By goom, you're right!  I did it the hard way - I noticed Ken Harker
>had capitalized a V in the middle of one of his sentences.  I assumed
>this was "I" (what other single letter do we capitalize?) and
>translated (rotated) the alphabet accordingly.  Everything fell out
>nicely from there.
>
>After deciphering "If you can read this, you really ought to get out
>more," I decided the effort greatly outweighed the rewards!
>
>- Jeff (wrss)

Gurer vf nabgure ernyyl rnfl jnl gb qrpvcure guvf. Vs lbh ner hfvat Jvaivz nf
n
arjf ernqre, nyy lbh unir gb qb vf uvg PGEY. E naq vg punatrf gur grkg evtug
orsber lbhe irel ryes.

Jim
>



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:03 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!news.starnet.net!thepit.trucom.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Marty Albert)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 04:56:34 GMT
Organization: TruCom Internet Services
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <4vomi5$[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup15.trucom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.antiques.radio+phono:21600 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23804 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16764 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31881 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16516 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106133 rec.radio.amateur.space:7407 rec.radio.cb:30318 rec.radio.scanner:55520 rec.radio.shortwave:78035 rec.radio.swap:71814 rec.video.satellite.dbs:33424 rec.video.satellite.europe:7183 rec.video.satellite.misc:5502 rec.video.satellite.tvro:31179

[e-mail] (J Adams) wrote:

>Electronics Resource Internet Addresses Needed
>               for Publisher.
>==============================================
>To all Electronics Companies, Service Person-
>nel, Webmasters & Hobbyists,

>I am preparing a book tentatively titled "Sam's
>Internet Guide to the Electronics Industry", to
>be published by Howard W. Sams & Co. and PROMPT
>Publications.  The book will contain site add-
>resses for electronics resources.  Companies,
>organizations and individual web creators are
>encouraged to fill out a simple FORM at the ad-
>dress below.
>-----------------------------------------------
>     http://web.idirect.com/~ifx/book/
>-----------------------------------------------
>In addition, any electronics related addresses
>or resources you run into while surfing please
>let me know by filling out said form.

>If you lack FORMS capability send an email with
>the info below.  I am especially interested in
>sites offering simple electronics repair data,
>service specs and hobbyist help-pages. Other
>resources are more than welcome. Top Urls will
>be printed in this directory and updated in
>future issues.
>-------------------------------------------------
>Name:
>Company Name:
>Nature of Business:
>Address http:
>Other Addresses:
>FTP Site:
>E-mail Contact:
>E-mail Main (info):
>Webmaster:
>Listserv:
>How often is your website updated:
>What type of information can be found on your
> website or special features:
>Has the WWW helped your business:
>Comments:
>-------------------------------------------------
>Send to John Adams -- [e-mail]

>If you know of any other Electronics related
>links please let me know in an email or a blank
>form.

>Thank you in advance. John Adams -- Author

>John J. Adams   |  "Forever Learning"    |
>Author          |  "Forever Questioning" |
>Web Designer    |  "Forever Creating"    |

>[e-mail]------------

>INFINET-FX @ http://web.idirect.com/~ifx/


I assume that this book will be provided free to all who submit or are
just trying to get us all to:

  1) Do all your work
  2) Still pay for the book

Just curious... I gave up doing research for others without pay when I
got my degree.

Take Care & 73



Marty Albert - [e-mail]
Amateur Radio: KC6UFM@KC6UFM.#SEMO.MO.USA.NOAM

Heartland Internet Services

*****************************************************
Cheap Long Distance! Just 12.9 cents per minute!
http://freedomstarr.com/?AL7837318
*****************************************************



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:04 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Gary Mitchelson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Midland Syn-Tech question
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:41:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: garym.cais.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99d/32.182

I have a Midland Syn-Tech 70-056C and I am trying to find the
programming schem of the EPROM so that I can program it without having
to use Midland special programmer.

Any ideas?

Gary
N3JPU


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:05 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!isdnlin.mtsu.edu!news.isdn.net!news
From: John Hettish <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Midland Syn-Tech question
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:22:41 -0700
Organization: Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hot21.hotcc.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)

Gary Mitchelson wrote:
>
> I have a Midland Syn-Tech 70-056C and I am trying to find the
> programming schem of the EPROM so that I can program it without having
> to use Midland special programmer.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Gary
> N3JPUYou must use the 70-1000 programmer and I don't think you can put the
70-056c into the ham bands if that is your goal.  Find a midland dealer
somewhere or send me the e-prom, and I'll program it.

call first though

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc
K4WJZ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:06 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!News2.Lakes.com!modem01.waldorf.lakes.com!user
From: [e-mail] (gloria medcalf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Web Site moved - digital mode articles and Radio-TNC wiring diagrams
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:00:43 -0600
Organization: ka5ztx
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: modem01.waldorf.lakes.com
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16752 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106095 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31845


The web site: Ham Radio Articles de ka5ztx
Has moved to: http://prairie.lakes.com/~medcalf/ztx/

Please visit and/or update any bookmarks or links you may have
(the old address  http://www.idir.net/~medcalf/ztx/
will be disappearing in the near future.)

The site contains Radio to TNC wiring diagrams for many models
and articles about packet radio and other digital modes.

73 gloria ka5ztx   [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:06 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp0.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!realtime.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: wanted: us tower or equal
Date: 24 Aug 1996 04:12:06 GMT
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bastion.dejanews.com
X-RTcode: 4e64dfd232168e6bf21e81e1
X-Originating-IP-addr: 205.230.248.63 (ppp54.comland.com)

Want to buy US Tower HDX-555 r HDX-572 r
equal 20 sq. ft. to 30 sq. ft. free standing, telescoping tower.
I will remove/pickup.
tnx Greg (n5lfh)
[e-mail]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
    http://www.dejanews.com/      [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News!]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:07 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.magicnet.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (ARM)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Looking For Kenwood 690S Mod's
Date: 24 Aug 1996 04:47:31 GMT
Organization: MagicNet, Inc.
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vm1h3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm7-21.magicnet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.5



        Looking for mod to open up the radio completely.  Mars/Cap etc.
Does any one know the mod or where I can get it...........Please email.

Ray



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:08 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: MODS FOR HTX-100
From: [e-mail] (Roger Bailey)
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!nashville.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Aug 96 15:46:22
Organization: http://WWW.NASHVILLE.COM * Modem: 615-383-0727
Lines: 4

Looking for any mods for Radio Shack HTX-100  any help would be appreciated.
                                       73's
                                       KD4KMN
                                       [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:09 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news6.agis.net!agis!atmnet.net!newshub.cts.com!news
From: Dan Cornett <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Midland  syn-tech for sale
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 15:54:58 -0700
Organization: CTS Network Services
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dcornett.cts.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5aGold (Win95; I)

I have a UHF  65 watt mobile 70-565B currently on local ham repeaters
in my area.80 channel commercial grade radio with PL ,scan,priority ch,
e-prom programmable. The radio also has Midland touch-tone (lighted)
microphone.All hardware included.  $200 or best offer..Trade?
Dan Cornett WB6BMJ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:10 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Radio.Amateur.equip./NewsCop
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:28:52 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 17
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4voh9k$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, James Beasley
<[e-mail]> writes:

>
>So now we have a newsgroup cop. Well excuse me for my FOR SALE add. I
>should have known!!!!
>
>

Just a quick atta boy.

Thank you news cop whoever you were! Keep up the good work.

It's a thankless job we should all do from time to time. It helps prevent
newsgroups from being overrun with for sale items.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:11 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Bernie Skoch <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: WTB:  2-meter FM Mobile
Date: 25 Aug 1996 03:51:38 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4voika$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 55.los-angeles-2.ca.dial-access.att.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22ATT (Windows; U; 16bit)

Want to buy a 2-meter FM mobile.  Need CTCSS (PL) encode and DTMF pad,
but not much else.  Anything over 10 watts is fine.  Cheaper
better than not-so-cheap.  Cosmetics unimportant, but I don't want to buy
a "project."

Please advise what you have. Thanks.

bernie
NH6I
Honolulu

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:12 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!POSEIDON!news.kellnet.com!not-for-mail
From: Bob Sull <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mobile Installation in Dodge Spirit
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 00:46:31 -0700
References: <4t0llf$[e-mail]> <4ub16a$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4uibsd$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4ult4b$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<4uqq4q$[e-mail]> <4uunge$[e-mail]> <4v6eb3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vkttk$[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Bob Fritz <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 76
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:106126 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31874

Bob Fritz wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >Does any one know how to route a 12 volt cable through the firewall
> >of a 1993 Dodge Spirit.  I currently have my FT-8000 wired to the
> >fusebox and would like to wire it directly to the battery.
> >
> >Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> >Jim..  WA5VPW..
> >
> I routed cables in my 84 Toyota Landcruiser and 1995 Dodge Ram. First, I use
d
> 12 gauge stranded wire for the leads. Next I looked on the firewall for a
> rubber grommet or gasket that had a cable (mechanical  or electrical). Find
> one nearest the point of hook up on the interior and also on the side of the
> battery. Then take a stiff wire (yes, the ubiquitous coat hanger will work)
> tape the ends of the wires to it and poke it through the grommet or gasket
> from the engine side - usually the easiest. Find the end of the stiff wire
> and pull through into the passenger area - make sure you have enough wire to
> work with and get to your connection point. You may want to use cable ties o
r
> tape to keep the wire contained under the dash. If you are really paranoid,
> you can put tape over the wires where they go through the firewall to reduce
> the possibility of abrasion.
>
> Carefully and neatly route the wires to the battery area. Make sure you avoi
d
> moving parts, hood closure, etc. I put fuses in both wires as I have seen
> recommended. Make the appropriate battery connections. I used crimp-on
> connectors and fastened them to the bolts on the battery cables. Again, use
> cable ties or tape to keep the cable secured.
>
>You neglected to mention a very important part of this installation.  FUSES!
 You should put fuses in both lines going to the battery.  Yes, both positive
and negative.

Fuse holders can be bought at Auto parts stores and/or hamfests.

I did it this way:   ----|
                     |   |-----------|
Battery +   ---------|   |           |----------------

                     |   |-----------|
                     ----|

                                 |----
                     |-----------|   |
Battery -   ---------|           |   |----------------
                     |-----------|   |
                                 |----


Note the reversed fuse holders.  If they are installed this way, the risk of c
onnecting
the polarities is greatly reduced.

(Reference QST a couple years ago)


73, Bob  WA8IMO
> Bob
> KE6WYG

--
            <> Bob Sull  WA8IMO <>
   "73, CUL, es keep the FUN in Ham radio."
>Life Member-ARRL  QCWA< >Member-NODXA  NCDXF<           >DXCC  WAS  RCC <  >8
P9BC<
             >QSL Mgr for 8P6JG<
          >WA8IMO@NO8M.#NEOH.OH.USA<
             >[e-mail]<



                   Bob Sull
"Take only photographs, leave only footprints."
===============================================
              [e-mail]






From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:12 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ns2.sirinet.net!dude
From: [e-mail] (michael m beadles)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: trade tm741 tribander
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 00:07:17 GMT
Organization: Sirius Systems
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4vo5i1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp73.sirinet.net
Summary: hey
Keywords: trade for yeasu3000
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

would like to trade my 741-kenwood tribander for a yeasu3000 2m
call 405 357 0356 in lawton ok    kc5jvn is my call
im willing to sell it for 500bucks if needed


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:13 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.biddeford.com!news.bihs.net!usenet
From: "Homer E. Franks" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: knwd 201 manual
Date: 25 Aug 1996 02:29:20 GMT
Organization: Brazos Information Highway Services
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <01bb922d$329aa5c0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial2-6.bihs.net
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155

needed a manual or copy for a knwd 201  2mtr rig
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:14 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!dublin.bitwise.net!usenet
From: <>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: WTB: RF AMP FOR BASE
Date: 25 Aug 1996 01:37:09 GMT
Organization: Unknown
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4voao5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: har89.capecod.net

LOOKINFG FOR A AMP TO USE MAINLY ON CW DX. 40-20-17-15MTRS
300 TO 600 WATTS SHOULD BE PLENTY.OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS.
PLEASE ALSO GIVE ME YOUR OPINION OF WHAT I MIGHT LOOK FOR OR AVOID.
TNX   73   JERRY  N1UMH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:15 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!rain.fr!starbase1.pingnet.ch!ubnsrv.unisource.ch!news
From: [e-mail] (Markus Buehler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: YAESU FT-600 ?
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:10:06 GMT
Organization: Unisource Business Networks
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4vou4a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pub01-ppp04.hitline.ch
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I read the very poor description about th FT-600 HF Transceiver at
yaesu.com.
Does anybody know more about this new transceiver i.e:
- FM narrow capability
- storing repeater shift for 10 m FM
- removable front panel
- size
- weight
- mods
.....
Thanky you for any comment.
73 from Marc   HB9CPW



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:16 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp.wwwi.com!news.goodnet.com!phx-ts1-26.goodnet.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Eric M. Brombaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Ten-Tec 6m rig
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:44:06 -0700
Organization: GoodNet
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <01bb8deb.f0ff1320$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: phx-ts1-26.goodnet.com

John Nelson <[e-mail]> wrote in article
<[e-mail]>...
> Anybody have any experience with the Ten-Tec 6m kits? Pluses, minuses,
> and other opinions?

I built the 1260 a few weeks ago and had a good experience.  The kit went
together nicely in a few evenings and works quite well.

--
Eric Brombaugh     KC7GXA
[e-mail] (private)
[e-mail]   (work)


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:16 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Robin Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: R.S. DSPs now $30; worth it?
Date: 25 Aug 1996 08:38:01 GMT
Organization: Vivid Internet Production
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vp3d9$[e-mail]>
References: <4ucq7l$[e-mail]> <4vj6mg$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aquarius.vividnet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 BETA-950824-color PL0]

I also bought one after reading this thread just to see how it is.  It was
picking up the engine noise that my Grant XL didn't.  Guess it works for
some, and useless for others.

Robin

DSlaugh506 ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I bought one a few month ago and it helped considerably on the older rig I
: was running. No doubt there is better but this was great for a start.
: KA1VBU...........Dan


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:17 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!shore4.intercom.net!news
From: [e-mail] (George Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: standard c5900da info and comments wanted
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:36:27 GMT
Organization: ICNet LLC, Salisbury, MD
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4vqrf8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: modem200.intercom.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

i am thinking of buying one and was looking for comments pro or con
thanks in advance      george  n3lnl



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:18 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.whytel.com!usenet
From: "Jim Gerke, KC5OA" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Kenwood TS-440 antenna tuner
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:58:44 -0700
Organization: Why? Network   [phone]
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vskdt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.240.253.184
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31894 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106149

My guess is that you have a relay, related to that frequency range, that
is not switching properly. I've had no problems with mine but have been
told by others that when a relay goes bad, the tuner won't stop hunting.

Good Luck.

73, Jim, KC5OA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:19 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!act.news.telstra.net!nsw.news.telstra.net!asstdc.scgt.oz.au!metro!metro!sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au!news
From: Dr Tony Farrow <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc
Subject: PLL Radio for 9600 baud packet?
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:44:08 -0700
Organization: Macquarie University
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tfarrow.mpce.mq.edu.au
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)
CC: [e-mail]
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31895 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106150 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16774

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a brand of 70cm radio from any of the major
ham-radio manufacturers that is really suitable for 9600 baud packet?  I
wonder if there are any PLL sets that are satisfactory?

Thanks & Cheers,

Tony vk2tjf

--

Dr Tony Farrow,
Physics Dept.,
Macquarie University,
Sydney,
Australia 2109.

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:19 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.magg.net!news
From: "Dale R. Parfitt" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Yaesu FT767GX Battery
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:19:11 -0400
Organization: PAR Electronics
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb-130.magg.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I)

Just picked up an FT767GX and looks as though the battery backup is low.
The manual is of no help. Has anyone replaced the battery and if so
where is it and what is it?

Thanks.  Dale WA2YPY


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!news.bu.edu!dartvax.dartmouth.edu!usenet
From: Mike McAmis
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Windows Logging/Packet) Freeware
Date: 26 Aug 1996 23:24:58 GMT
Organization: WA3ECT
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <4vtboa$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: v2-p-110.valley.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

Disappointed with your commercial/shareware logging or
packet software for Windows?  Try XMLog, freeware that's
available on the Internet.  XMLog provides a flexible set
of coordinated logging and packet features.

If you're using a Web browser, start at Boston Amateur Radio
Club's home page (http://www.acs.oakland.edu/barc/barc.html)
  - scroll down to the "BARC FTP Archives" section
  - click on "FTP Archive"
  - scroll down to "Software Archives"
  - click on "PC Files"
  - click on "logging"
  - scroll down and click on "xmlog124.zip"

(Even though the directory says DOS, it really is a Windows
program...)

For ftp users, sign on to ftp.barc.org with the userid
of anonymous and a password of guest.  Move to the
/pub/hamradio/dos/logging directory and get xmlog124.zip

XMLog is now also available from ftp.funet.fi in Finland.
Sign on with a userid of anonymous and supply your e-mail
address as the password.  Move to the directory
/pub/ham/hf-log and get xmlog124.zip

Version 1.24 has mostly minor improvements - the big changes
are DXCC/WAS/WAZ award submission tracking and support for
the Radio Amateur Callbook (Flying Horse) CD.

Version 1.23 is still available for those with PC's that
only have 4mb of memory (1.24 requires 8mb).

The archives can be busy at times, don't give up if you
can't sign on right away.  Let me know if you:
  -  want more info
  -  can't fetch the file
  -  want diskettes instead

Have fun...

Mike/WA3ECT
[e-mail]  (internet)
WA3ECT @ W1ET.NH           (packet)




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.PBI.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:23:55 -0700
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-206-170-117-44.sndg02.pacbell.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBWE  (Win95; I)

You know Tom, you shouldn't post notices over newsgroups unless you
would like every one to know your sexual preferances. Well seems and how
we've all come out of the closet...I LOVE YOU TO!!!!!


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:22 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: AC6V <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Packet info...
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:04:21 -0700
Organization: Author
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vqbs7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: esc-ca1-10.ix.netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25  4:04:15 PM CDT 1996
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)
To: [e-mail]

Ted Sarah wrote:
>
> I'm getting the bug to try packet radio.  But, what is a good TNC?
>
> Ted
> KC8ENM

Hi Ted
I have an AEA, my friend has a Kantronics -- we both love em. Some are
VHF only. Others are all-mode such as the AEA-232MBX that I own. A lower
cost entry is the Baycom modem marketed by Tigertronics Inc -- E-Mail at
[e-mail]


Also be sure to read WB9LOZ's excellent excellent tutorial at URL:

http://itg-pc1.acns.nwu.edu/~odenbach/classes/c96/packetradio.txt

Highly recommended

Good Packeting
73
Rod
--
Hark for I have hurled my words to the far reaches of the earth!
What King of old could do thus??
..... AC6V


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:23 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Lester Wahl)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: LCD display
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:21:50 GMT
Organization: Fermilab
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vqg5e$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: callback29.fnal.gov
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6

  I have a Uniden scanner with an LCD display.  If the unit is
mounted under the dashboard, the display can be read easily.
But if the scanner is mounted overhead (as in my van), the
display is impossible to read.  The LCD digits seem to fade out
when the radio is above the observer.  (I'm making an assumption
that the manufacturer intended under-the-dash mounting.)
  Is there and easy fix for this?


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:24 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!demos!news.internetMCI.com!news-admin
From: [e-mail] (Russell Blair)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: U.S. Distributor
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:40:51 GMT
Organization: MCI
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4vutql$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.34.66.14
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Need help on a contact for Tokyo High Power Labs in the U.S.
Please e-mail me back
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:24 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.abs.net!news.scn.org!scn.org!yir
From: [e-mail] (SCN User)
Subject: Re: Sx24 info
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Seattle Community Network
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:22:08 GMT
Lines: 2


Ballpark range for your SX 24 should be 60 - 125 dollars


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:28 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!netcom.com!rmd
From: [e-mail] (Richard M. Donnelly)
Subject: Re: Request Comments on Heathkit HW-7, 8 & 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: None
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <4ve43f$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 10:06:52 GMT
Lines: 34
Sender: [e-mail]

don williams ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I would like to hear from those Hams using the Heathkit QRP rigs.  How
: well do they perform?  What mods are recommended to eliminate
: weaknesses?  How well do they compare to the modern QRP kits?

I have an HW-8.  For a simple QRP rig it works fine, but don't expect
performance to be anywhere near that of a regular rig.

The HW-7 and HW-8 both have direct-conversion receivers.  I found the
reception of both sidebands to be relatively easy to deal with, but
others complain about this.  Hum is a problem with this type of receiver
when operated off an ac supply.  It's caused by common-mode coupling
through the power supply leads and can be cured by wrapping the power
supply cable around a ferrite toroid.  The HW-9 has a superheterodyne
receiver and will not have these quirks.

I had some TVI on my own TV when I lived in a fringe reception area.
The filtering in the HW-8 is not very good (only 3 elements), though
if you don't live in a fringe reception area it's probably adequate.
The addition of a commercial low-pass filter corrected the TVI problem
for me.

The HW-8 (and probably also the HW-7) have an audio output impedance
of 1000 ohms, not the usual 8 ohms.  I use 600 ohm headphones with mine
and they work fine.  If you use low-Z headphones you'll probably need
to hook up an inexpensive audio transformer.  I think the HW-9 has an
8 ohm output impedance, but I'm not sure.

I have no experience with the modern QRP kits, but from the prices I've
seen, a used Heathkit is definitely easier on the wallet!

Rick Donnelly, WV0F
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:31 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!nwlink.com!zommbee
From: [e-mail] (zommbee)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Opinions of TenTec 6-meter transverter??
Date: 21 Aug 1996 18:43:38 GMT
Organization: Northwest Link
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4vflcq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port47.usr2.nwlink.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.swap:71586 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31775 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106030

I recently put out a posting looking for 6 meter gear, and almost
everyone who replied said the TenTec transverter is the best
way to go for the money.  It sure sounds like it.  But I have
a few questions maybe some one can answer:

1. I use a TS820S.  Is the transverter output plug-and-play with the
   TenTec unit? or do I still need to run off the main SO239 and crank
   the power down to 5 watts.

2. How is the performance, with say a 3 element yagi of the homebrew
   variety?

3. How does the frequency read out?  I assume I would shoot 10 meters in
   and use some sort of table to convert 10m to 6m, using the 500khz
   scale to keep track of the actual 1khz freq.  Is this how it works?

4. How tricky is the kit to build and get going?  I built converters
   years ago (tube days) and they were quite simple.  Is the TenTec
   along those lines, or is it fussy?

5. I assume, by the name Transverter, that this is a receive converter
   as well.  Is this true?

6. What is your overall opinion?



I hope I haven't asked too much!  I don't have alot to spend on gear and want
to make sure I spend it wisely.  There's nothing better than the internet
for getting opinions (whether you want to or not!!), and I often base
buy decisions on what I hear in these groups.

Email replies to :

Dave WB7AWK
[e-mail] or
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:32 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.pdx.oneworld.com!news
From: Abraxas Software <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: need digit block for touch-tone phone
Date: 21 Aug 1996 14:47:24 GMT
Organization: One World Internetworking, Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4vf7hs$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip61.pdx.oneworld.com

hello,

I need a digit block to kill my remote on my tel/ans/mach - I don't want
to build one, does anyone know where I can buy a little device to
put on the line next to my tel/ans and say set the tone blocker to
'5' and then set the dumb ans/mach remote code to '555' and do that every time
after a pwr failure.... CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY YOU CANT JUST TURN REMOTE OFF?
??
IS THIS FOR THE COPS OR THE DRUG DEALERS???

So I need to know where to get a touch-tone digit blocker .. can anyone
help???

patrick conley-asi
[e-mail]

thanks


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:33 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!ralph.vnet.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Bill English)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Yaesu FT890, Ameritron Al-80A, MFJ DPS - FOR SALE!!!
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:56:35 GMT
Organization: Vnet Internet Access, Inc.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4vf83p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nick.vnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I would like to sell the following radio equipment:

I have a Yaesu FT890 with internal antenna tuner retail price 1600
USD... on
the used market they are bringing 900 to 1000 EASY

I have an Ameritron Al-80A 1 KW amp with full breakin built-in (no
relays,,,pin diode switching... you can send morse code and receive
between
the dits and dahs...it's slick!!) retail 1200 USD WITHOUT the full
breakin.... the pin diode board is around 300USD. Used it's worth
around 900
for a FAST sell WITHOUT full breakin

I have a MFJ DPS (digital signal processor) retail 250 USD....175 used
EASY

All I want is 1500 for all the stuff.....

Email reply to:

[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:33 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news2.whytel.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!treasure.coastalnet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Prescott)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Motorola Blank Board
Date: 21 Aug 1996 15:04:51 GMT
Organization: The Unorganization
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4vf8ij$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm-nb1-41.coastalnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

Looking for info on bringing back up a maxtrac to 32 channels after a
blank board.

Mark Prescott
KE4LWP




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:34 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!info.cs.uofs.edu!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Plasma)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Only One more day left!!!
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:11:17 GMT
Organization: MIS
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4vi0so$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.22.183
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Drake has a special offer on the R8A and SW8 radios.  You can save
$50 on the R8A and $25 on the SW8."  You might want to place a request
for advice or information from current owners about the performance of
the radios.  It is good for us to hear from owners from time to time
and get their input.  If you put the message out there as Plasma it
may head off the appearance of Drake solliciting or advertising over
the newsgroups.




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:35 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!universe.digex.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (bnr)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: MFJ mag mount dual band ant, ques?
Date: 21 Aug 1996 18:28:37 GMT
Organization: Universal Access by Digital Express. 800-969-9090
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4vfkgl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: universe.digex.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

Joel Lessenberry ([e-mail]) wrote:
:
: I am the owner of a Ft50r, and am looking for a mag mount
: antenna for my lease car..
:
: The local store has 2 MFJs, one 19" for about $15
: the other 29" for about $29.
:
: Both are dual band..
:
: Any one with experience care to comment before I buy?

Joel,

I have the same exact setup you are describing.  The ft-50r with the
19" MFJ dual band antenna.  It works great for me and I use the wide
receive a lot myself also.  Some gain over the duck, but it makes a big
difference on your signal out.  No rf bouncing around inside the cab.

I also occasionally connect the MFJ to my BC3000xlt scanner and it works
great with it also.

My only complaint is all the connectors to make the ant. work with the
ft-50.  For those of you not familiar with the 50...it has a sma adapter
for the antenna.  Anybody know of a source to get an adapter to make a
cable?  I checked out radio shack, but no luck.

You can get the MFJ antenna from HRO for $14.95.  Let me know if you need
a number.

Brian Raines     N3XWJ  ||  www.universe.digex.net/~bnr/3000.html
[e-mail]  ||  The Uniden BC3000xlt



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:36 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!pacifier!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (John Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: MFJ mag mount dual band ant, ques?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 15:17:05 GMT
Organization: Pacifier BBS, Vancouver, Wa.  ([phone])
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vhtlh$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vfkgl$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacifier.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

bnr ([e-mail]) wrote:
: ft-50.  For those of you not familiar with the 50...it has a sma adapter
: for the antenna.  Anybody know of a source to get an adapter to make a
: cable?  I checked out radio shack, but no luck.

You bet. HRO carries an SMA-BNC adapter for the FT-50r. Be sure to ask for
the one for the FT-50, as they also carry one for the FT-10 that is
threaded differently.

The MFJ comes with a PL-259 to BNC adapter, so that's all you need.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:37 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!universe.digex.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (bnr)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: MFJ mag mount dual band ant, ques?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 17:15:05 GMT
Organization: Universal Access by Digital Express. 800-969-9090
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4vi4ip$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vfkgl$[e-mail]> <4vhtlh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: universe.digex.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

John Nelson ([e-mail]) wrote:
: bnr ([e-mail]) wrote:
: : ft-50.  For those of you not familiar with the 50...it has a sma adapter
: : for the antenna.  Anybody know of a source to get an adapter to make a
: : cable?  I checked out radio shack, but no luck.
:
: You bet. HRO carries an SMA-BNC adapter for the FT-50r. Be sure to ask for
: the one for the FT-50, as they also carry one for the FT-10 that is
: threaded differently.
:
: The MFJ comes with a PL-259 to BNC adapter, so that's all you need.

Right, that is what I am doing now.  That makes three connectors...the
cable has the PL-259, to the BNC to the SMA to the radio.  The
conglomeration of adapters and connectors is bigger than the radio ;)

What I was hoping for was a SMA connector I could use to make a cable.
Thereby, bypassing all the connectors and adapters at the radio.  That
would be much cleaner and easier.

Thanks for the input though...

Brian Raines     N3XWJ  ||  www.universe.digex.net/~bnr/3000.html
[e-mail]  ||  The Uniden BC3000xlt



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:38 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nwlink.com!zommbee
From: [e-mail] (zommbee)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Opinions of TenTec 6-meter transverter
Date: 21 Aug 1996 18:35:29 GMT
Organization: Northwest Link
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4vfkth$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port47.usr2.nwlink.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.swap:71614 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106042 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31788

I recently put out a posting looking for 6 meter gear, and almost
everyone who replied said the TenTec transverter is the best
way to go for the money.  It sure sounds like it.  But I have
a few questions maybe some one can answer:

1. I use a TS820S.  Is the transverter output plug-and-play with the
   TenTec unit? or do I still need to run off the main SO239 and crank
   the power down to 5 watts.

2. How is the performance, with say a 3 element yagi of the homebrew
   variety?

3. How does the frequency read out?  I assume I would shoot 10 meters in
   and use some sort of table to convert 10m to 6m, using the 500khz
   scale to keep track of the actual 1khz freq.  Is this how it works?

4. How tricky is the kit to build and get going?  I built converters
   years ago (tube days) and they were quite simple.  Is the TenTec
   along those lines, or is it fussy?

5. I assume, by the name Transverter, that this is a receive converter
   as well.  Is this true?

6. What is your overall opinion?



I hope I haven't asked too much!  I don't have alot to spend on gear and want
to make sure I spend it wisely.  There's nothing better than the internet
for getting opinions (whether you want to or not!!), and I often base
buy decisions on what I hear in these groups.

Email replies to :

Dave WB7AWK
[e-mail] or
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:39 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!usenet.cisco.com!pchow
From: [e-mail] (Peter Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: TS-940 Computer Interface
Date: 21 Aug 1996 19:25:53 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vfns1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: polka.cisco.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I recently acquired a TS-940. I am interested to setup my computer
to talk to it. Looking through it's instruction manual only gives
me the idea of using ACC1. Further investigation with the schematics
yields the pinout for ACC1.

If I remember correctly, this is a RS-232 port that uses 5V instead
of +/-12V. I can deal with that. But do I need to install anymore
IC in my 940? What about the software commands? Any suggestions?


73,
KF6DLT


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:40 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Rob Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: TS-940 Computer Interface
Date: 21 Aug 1996 13:08:01 -0700
Organization: Screw the EPA, they screw us.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4vfqb1$[e-mail]>
References: <4vfns1$[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: @198.68.46.60 (n7ory)
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Peter Chow) wrote:

>I recently acquired a TS-940. I am interested to setup my computer
>to talk to it. Looking through it's instruction manual only gives
>me the idea of using ACC1. Further investigation with the schematics
>yields the pinout for ACC1.

>If I remember correctly, this is a RS-232 port that uses 5V instead
>of +/-12V. I can deal with that. But do I need to install anymore
>IC in my 940? What about the software commands? Any suggestions?

I'm in the process of building an interface for my TS-690SAT. In the
article I am using, Feb 93 QST. p40, it states "Some other radios,
such as the TS-940S, require an interface board available from
Kenwood"

The artice provides schematics for building the interface, but from
what I read, the TS-940 need a board available only from KenWood.

Rob Neff (N7ORY)
>73,
>KF6DLT




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:40 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!ns1.aplatform.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!losangeles01.news.internex.net!Keithhat
From: [e-mail] (Keith Hatounian)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Yaesu FT-51R & SoftWindows-Mac
Date: 22 Aug 1996 08:37:29 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ws01.keith.xo.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b13



Has anyone out there been able to get the ADMS-1c software running on a
Mac under SoftWindows, and a Yaesu FT51R or 50R to work correctly? I have
been trying to get it to work consistently and it doesn't. I am able to
pull data from the radio and see what I have programed directly. If I edit
and try to send back to the radio I get an instant error on the screen of
the 51R which locks everything up. I bought two ADMS kits so I have tried
a second Yaesu cable.Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

--
Sincerely,

Keith Hatounian
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:41 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.eng.convex.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.cis.okstate.edu!news.redshift.com!news
From: [e-mail] (cdyson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: WTB: 6JS6
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:51:16 GMT
Organization: Sog USA
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: red233.redshift.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

I am looking for a match pair of 6JS6's for my FT101.  Must be new in
box.

Reply via e-mail

Clarence  WA6STX

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:42 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: "Ronald D. Lucier" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Trade 7/8" hardline
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:23:51 -0700
Organization: Optical Hybrids, Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wor-ma2-20.ix.netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 22  9:24:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U; 16bit)

I have over 300 feet of 7/8" hardline, one piece, w/o connectors for
trade.  I have no plans for using it at the present time.  The hardline
is about 6 years old, never installed and has been stored indoors.

Am willing to trade it for?????  Would consider HF antennas, HF rig, test
equipment, cash, etc.  I have zero interest in VHF, packet stuff.  Be
creative - this stuff is collecting dust in my cellar.  Would prefer
trade in the New England area but could ship it.

73 de WA1UWZ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!usenet
From: Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: post forsale ads to rec.radio.swap please
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 19:07:00 -0700
Organization: Texas Instruments Asia, Taiwan ROC
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: na01872244.taiwan.ti.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)

Hi,
I've noticed a recent spurt of "for sale" postings to
rec.radio.amateur.equipment.   Just a friendly reminder
that this forum is for the general discussion of equipment

The correct forum for buying/selling/swapping is the
rec.radio.swap newsgroup.

not trying to be a netcop here, just a reader with lousy ISP
who cant carry many days worth of messages (the forsale posts
bump out the equipment discussion posts).

thanks.
Joe
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Amateur Radio:  BV/N0IAT   Taipei TAIWAN Republic of China

        http://www.isite.net.tw/bv1al/e-hist.htm

ex.  7J1AOF (Japan)  YU3/N0IAT (Slovenia)  KA0ZDH (Novice)
Licensed Radio Amateur since 1986.  Comments are mine only.
----------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:44 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (RH3333)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: USED 6080 & 6080WA FOR SALE
Date: 22 Aug 1996 12:04:57 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vi0f9$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (RH3333)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I have about 300 US govt pulled 6080/6080WA for sale as a Lot purchase.

These tubes have not been tested.

I will accept the highest offer by 8/26/96

Buyer would be responsible for UPS cost too.

[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:45 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.sgi.com!wrdiss1.robins.af.mil!wrdis01.robins.af.mil!acopp
From: [e-mail] (Al Copp)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: need info. on Kenwood TS711A
Date: 22 Aug 1996 12:03:15 GMT
Organization: U.S.A.F.
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.244.192.216
X-Newsreader: SuperTCP Suite for Windows Version 2.1

I am looking for a 2 meter allmode and one of the one's I have been approache
with is 711A. If anyone out there knows any specifics, please email me.
Thanks,
AL
KF4GKV




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:46 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!usenet.cisco.com!pchow
From: [e-mail] (Peter Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: MFJ mag mount dual band ant, ques?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 16:10:06 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4vi0ou$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: polka.cisco.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I currently use the 19" version too.

For that kind of money, it's a great antenna. Well, almost anything is
better than the rubber duckie anyway. But I do have two concerns.

First, the part that screw into the base which makes the contact is not
"paint" free. I need to use my XACTO knife to scrap off the paint to
make sure a good contact could be make.

Second, the mag mount is not very strong. So if you drive fast, you may
end up with just a coax hanging in the free air. But for $14.95, it's
kind of asking too much. Remember that a good mag mount by Larsen costs
$30 or so.

I will probably use the MFJ until I save up some money and get a Larsen.
But until then, I am having fun with my cheap MFJ.


73,
KF6DLT


Joel Lessenberry ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Any one with experience care to comment before I buy?

: I like the shorter one  for styling reasons, and it looks
: like a cell antenna...

: But I am concerned about performance, also.

: I do a lot of listening, and use the wide range capability of
: the ft50r quite a bit..


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:46 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Darryl)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Toronto Swap shop on the net is there one ??
Date: 23 Aug 1996 04:22:39 GMT
Organization: iSTAR Internet Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vjbmf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts31-12.tor.istar.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Does anyone know if there is a newsgroup to sell ham radio equipment
for Toronto or Ontario ??

If so where ??


                             Kevin VA3 API



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:47 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (david)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Looking for used FT1000
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 04:52:56 GMT
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4vjdhc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lbb07.ofthe.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I am looking for a good used ft1000. Must be ready to hook up and
talk. Will buy if price is right.


[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:48 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.nevada.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: KD1YV <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Western Connecticut Hamfest 15-Sep Newtown CT
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:45:47 -0300
Organization: Hamily
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dby-ct3-62.ix.netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 22  9:46:31 PM CDT 1996
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)

THE WESTERN CONNECTICUT HAMFEST
Sponsored by the Candlewood Amateur Radio Association

Sunday, Sept. 15, 1996                      0900-1400
Edmond Town Hall                 Route 6, Newtown, CT
Tables inside                      Tailgating outside
ARRL Sanctioned                    Handicapped Access
Door Prizes                             Ample Parking
Gourmet Fare                            Rain or shine

Talk-in 147.12/.72 PL 141.3

General admission $4.00 at the door (what a deal!)

Tailgating $6.00, inside table reservations $10.00 each, (both
include 1 admission), mail to:
Candlewood Amateur Radio Association, PO BOX 3441, Danbury CT 06813

For more info, phone [phone] or [phone].

Hope to see you all there.
73 de KD1YV
Jim


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:49 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!news.total.net!news
From: Vincent Charron <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: WTB: 6HF5 tubes
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:45:23 +0000
Organization: Total Net
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.236.100.43
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.antiques.radio+phono:21527 rec.radio.swap:71649 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31819

Looking for new, old stock 6HF5 tv tubes. Used as horiz. output.

Thanks.

Vince
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!nwlink.com!zommbee
From: [e-mail] (zommbee)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Opinions of TenTec 6-meter transverter??
Date: 21 Aug 1996 18:43:38 GMT
Organization: Northwest Link
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4vflcq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port47.usr2.nwlink.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.swap:71586 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31775 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106030

I recently put out a posting looking for 6 meter gear, and almost
everyone who replied said the TenTec transverter is the best
way to go for the money.  It sure sounds like it.  But I have
a few questions maybe some one can answer:

1. I use a TS820S.  Is the transverter output plug-and-play with the
   TenTec unit? or do I still need to run off the main SO239 and crank
   the power down to 5 watts.

2. How is the performance, with say a 3 element yagi of the homebrew
   variety?

3. How does the frequency read out?  I assume I would shoot 10 meters in
   and use some sort of table to convert 10m to 6m, using the 500khz
   scale to keep track of the actual 1khz freq.  Is this how it works?

4. How tricky is the kit to build and get going?  I built converters
   years ago (tube days) and they were quite simple.  Is the TenTec
   along those lines, or is it fussy?

5. I assume, by the name Transverter, that this is a receive converter
   as well.  Is this true?

6. What is your overall opinion?



I hope I haven't asked too much!  I don't have alot to spend on gear and want
to make sure I spend it wisely.  There's nothing better than the internet
for getting opinions (whether you want to or not!!), and I often base
buy decisions on what I hear in these groups.

Email replies to :

Dave WB7AWK
[e-mail] or
[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 15:49:51 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!fozzie.mercury.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!arlnews!news.monroe.army.mil!wrdiss1.robins.af.mil!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Roger W Sellers)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Mods for Icom Z1A... Are there any??
Date: 20 Aug 1996 13:01:44 GMT
Organization: Firecraker Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4vccvo$[e-mail]>
References: <4unni7$[e-mail]> <4us3bc$[e-mail]> <4v641c$[e-mail]> <4v9qqr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-119.firecraker.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

In article <4v9qqr$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>I would be interested in a copy of the mods.
>
>Thanks
>Carl Rabalais
>NU5Q
>
>
I thought I'd post this e-mail reply I received for the enjoyment of all. It
seems one Mr. Lee Allen has nothing better to to then monitor this sig and
threaten people. Here's is e-mail to me inreguard to Z1A mods requiest info:

>Subject: Re: Mods for Icom Z1A... Are there any??
>From: [e-mail] (Lee Allen)
>Organization: IONet
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 23:07:13 PST
>References: <4unni7$[e-mail]> <4us3bc$[e-mail]>
<4v641c$[e-mail]>

>Your note is being forwarded to the FCC office in Dallas. Illegal Mods
>for cellular or out of band transmit will not go unnoticed

   So at least for the moment, this self-appointed ruler has stiffled your
right to freedom of information. He has single handedly tried and convicted me

of broadcasting outside the ham freq without a single shred of proof. And for
the record, I have never broadcasted outside the FCC sanctioned Ham radio
bands.
   At the moment, I wont reply to anyone requesting the mod information. If
your not happy with my decision, let Mr. Lee know about it and duly take the
credit.Congratulations Mr. Lee, you've destroyed the Constitution and denied m
e
and others our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of information that
would be guaranteed us under the Constitution. You have done what Congress
failed too.

73,

Roger Sellers
KB9LBU



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:49 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!shore!mv!wd1v.mv.com!user
From: [e-mail] (John D. Seney, WD1V,   LeCroy T&M   800.553.2769)
Subject: Re: 6-meter mobile antennas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:49:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <X5960814102049@155.157.28.37> <4vdmpl$[e-mail]>
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: wd1v.mv.com
Lines: 31

In article <4vdmpl$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve
Kennedy) wrote:

> [e-mail] (NR3O, Chris Smith) wrote:
>
> >I found my Hustler 2 meter 5/8-wave mag mount resonant on 6.
> >Unfortunately, I had just bought a 6 meter hamstick which is
> >a good choice and widely available.
>
> Many base-loaded 1/4 wave whips made for 10 & 11 meters can also be
> cut for resonance on 6 meters.
>
> Maybe this is why it is called the "Magic Band", almost everyone
> else's antennas can be made to work there without a tuner! <grin>
>
> Steve
> WB7PSD
TRUE! My MFJ Versa Tuner V works great with a G5RV for home use.

Also take a look at the halos by KB6KQ - made like Harley's and
work like magic!

73,

            John D. Seney |_|_|_|_| [e-mail]
        144 Pepperidge Dr |_|   |_| page [e-mail]
Manchester, NH 03103-6150 |_|_ _|_| [e-mail]
  voice mail 603.533.3472 | | | | | fax [phone]

                    www.mv.com/ipusers/wd1v
            Digital Scope.FAQ + Application Notes


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:51 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!sloth.swcp.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Brian Mileshosky, N5ZGT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: ==> WANT: HyGain Tape Measure Antenna <==
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:31:08 GMT
Organization: Southwest Cyberport
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4vqd1q$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp126.swcp.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23827 rec.radio.swap:71854 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31899

Hello Eveybody,
  I am looking for a HyGain tape measure dipole antenna.  This antenna
is actually two tape measure built into one piece, including the
feedpoint.  All you do is pull out the apporopriate amount of tape to
operate on your frequecny, and you are on the air!
  If you, or anybody you know, has one of these antennas for sale,
please E-Mail me as I am interested in taking it off your hands!
  Thank!
72/73,
Brian, N5ZGT


 _________________________________________________________________________
   Boy Scouts of America                 Amateur Radio - N5ZGT
    Eagle Scout - 1996            ARRL   QRP: NorCal# 1700   QRP-L# 580
     JASM - Troop 41           Author of Worldradio's "Youth Forum" Column
    Albuquerque, N.M.            Packet: N5ZGT @ KC5IZT.ALBQ.NM.USA.NA
  O.A. Lodge 66  <-W-W-W-<<             Internet: [e-mail]
 _________________________________________________________________________




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:54 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!news
From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Absolute Field Strength Measurements.
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:22:23 -0700
Organization: Wheeeeee!
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vaf02$[e-mail]> <4vblsn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dam-as4s15.erols.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23742 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106064

Cecil Moore wrote:

> What we need to do is come up with an RF sniffer that is easy
> to build and the accuracy of which is guaranteed by design to
> be close enough for semi-accurate measurements. Any takers?
> Such a device should be a best seller. Anybody care to discuss
> the challenge (if any) of such a design?
>

This is indeed the flaw that the FCC never really faced up to when they
wrote their silly new regulations on RF exposure.  There is no easy way
to model many of the antennas we hams use.  And even if there were, that
sort of thing is beyond the technical ability of at least 95% of all
hams.

The test equipment the FCC made references to cost many thousands of
dollars.  I think it probably costs more than most hams have spent
on their entire stations.

Anyhow, what we need is a simple reference.  We can use a simple
receiver, portable antenna, and an attenuator set to act as a
relative FS meter.  We can place exactly one watt in to a reference
(NIST) dipole for VHF measurements and then back off in to the far
field at some given distance for a known field strength.  --But I still don't
see how we can make a
usable FS reference scheme for anything below 50 MHz.

--
Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL-IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:55 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!news
From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Absolute Field Strength Measurements.
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:30:18 -0700
Organization: Wheeeeee!
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vaf02$[e-mail]> <4vblsn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dam-as4s15.erols.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23743 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106065

Cecil Moore wrote:

> What we need to do is come up with an RF sniffer that is easy
> to build and the accuracy of which is guaranteed by design to
> be close enough for semi-accurate measurements. Any takers?
> Such a device should be a best seller. Anybody care to discuss
> the challenge (if any) of such a design?
>

This is indeed the flaw that the FCC never faced up to when they
wrote their silly new regulations on RF exposure.  There is no
easy way to model many of the antennas we hams use.  And even if
there were, that sort of thing is beyond the technical ability of
at least 95% of all hams.

The test equipment the FCC made references to cost many thousands of
dollars.  I think it probably costs more than most hams have spent
on their entire stations.

Anyhow, what we need is a simple absolute reference.  We can use
a portable receiver, antenna, and an attenuator set to act as a
relative FS meter.  For VHF and up we can calibrate it by putting
exactly one watt in to a reference (NIST) dipole for VHF
measurements and then back off to the far field at some given
distance for a relatively accurate field strength.

Below VHF, I don't know how we can make a usable FS reference
scheme for anything below 50 MHz.  The size gets unwieldly.  Anyone
have suggestions?

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL-IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:56 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!news.netserv.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsbuffer.myriad.net!news.myriad.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Date: 23 Aug 1996 06:32:57 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4vjjap$[e-mail]>
References: <4v6dg9$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vf9rd$[e-mail]> <4viqhd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup517.myriad.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4viqhd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) writes:
>In article <4vf9rd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>. . .  He is the one that told me that the government versions
>>of ELNEC included code that could, but that they were not available for
>>security reasons. . .
>
>For the record. .
>
>I'm sure the writer means NEC, not ELNEC.
>
>ELNEC is a commercial program which is for sale to anyone. There are no
>special versions.
>
>Until recently, NEC-3 and NEC-4 were restricted for use by the military and
>other selected users. NEC-4 can now be purchased (for $850) by U.S.
>citizens.
>
>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Sorry for the alphabet soup!
Mike @ W5WQN


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:57 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx03-50
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 23:12:36 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4vo26q$[e-mail]>
References: <4vf9rd$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx03-50.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote:
>ML> Dx Engineering's phase box.  As I have traced it out, it appears to
>ML> variant of the Collins method.   Further, one can tune on the reisti
>ML> dummy load port and somewhat optimize the F/B, but in practice, that
>ML> seems not worth the trouble.
>
>OK, I had Fred Collins callsign wrong--not W1FH but W1FC.
>Yes, that started out as Colatchco, a combination of Collins
>and Atchley.  Interestingly enough their callsigns were
>W1FC and W1CF.  That used to produce some interesting scew-ups
>in the 75M DX window whenever both were on hand!
>
>If you have done any measurement of the actual phase angles
>that system produces for your two middle elements and the
>diagonal element I would be very interested.
>
>And yes.  The 4square does work a little better with spacing
>greater than 1/4 w.l.
>
>Do you know of anyone using approx. 1/8 w.l. spacing for a 4square?
>The patterns look good on paper! ;-)
>//
>  k2bt
> * RM 1.3 02583 *  Gross incompetence (n.): 144 COBOL programmers

Another interesting note. Colatchco originally sold a system using a
Wilkinson divider for distribution to the elements. Dana Atchley learned
that the Wilkinson wouldn't do the intended job, and converted to a system
similar to the one I described in Chapter 8 of the Antenna Book.
(He offered me a stake in Colatchco at that point, which I
declined.) Somewhere along the line, the system was changed to what I
believe is similar to a 90 degree hybrid. (I assume that this was after
the company changed hands.) This also doesn't insure correct current phase
and magnitude, but apparently it comes close enough in most installations
to give a noticeable f/b ratio and not cook the resistor too badly. And its
name makes people think that it provides balanced, quadrature currents to
the elements (which it doesn't).

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 23:31:03 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4viqhd$[e-mail]>
References: <4v6dg9$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vf9rd$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx21-42.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <4vf9rd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

>. . .  He is the one that told me that the government versions
>of ELNEC included code that could, but that they were not available for
>security reasons. . .

For the record. .

I'm sure the writer means NEC, not ELNEC.

ELNEC is a commercial program which is for sale to anyone. There are no
special versions.

Until recently, NEC-3 and NEC-4 were restricted for use by the military and
other selected users. NEC-4 can now be purchased (for $850) by U.S.
citizens.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:01:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Aluminium tubing
Date: 23 Aug 1996 20:47:20 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vl5co$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: polka.cisco.com
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It's time to bow to the wisdom of the net again...

I would like to build myself a vertical and found there is two
available aluminium tubings: 6063-T832 and 6061-T6.

Can anyone shed some light on this? What is their difference?
Thanks in advance.


73,
KF6DLT


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Stanley L. Flegler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Any Ted Hart Loop Users?
Date: 23 Aug 1996 13:37:57 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 11
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Are there any Ted Hart Loop users out there?  These are the small loops made
with 3/4 inch copper pipe and a high voltage tuning capacitor described in
the new ARRL antenna book and in several past QST articles. I bought Ted
Hart's book where I think he claims that the antenna is ground independent
(height doesn't matter) and that the only thing that will outperform it on
HF is a dipole (or multielement) at least one wavelength high.  However,
Jack Belrose (QST Nov. 1993) presents theory and data that says that the
antenna is very ground dependent and much of the radiation goes up at high
angles.  Are there any users of these loops that want to comment on
performance?



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Frits Jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Anybody built 5/8 WL antenna for 20M band?
Date: 20 Aug 1996 09:26:34 GMT
Organization: sni
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4vc0ca$[e-mail]>
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Dr. OMs

I should like to hear from somebody who have practical experience with homebre
w
of a vertical 5/8 WL antenna for 20M. I now have a 1/4 wave GP up 6 meters wit
h
4 slooping radials, and it works just fine, but I should like the gain of some

3db from a longer antenna.

It will be about 40 feet tall, and I think I can manage to get it up, built of

telescopic alu. How about matching? Messures of the coil, and how to ajust it?

How about the radials? How many and how long?. Did you do any camparison to a
dipole or better 1/4 wl GP? - Is it at all worth the work and money?

I hope to hear from somebody who raly had *the fingers in the soup*, and not
just read the books on the topic.

Thanks for answering

Best 73 de OZ2Q Frits in Copenhagen [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Steven M Knapp)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment HF antennas
Date: 20 Aug 1996 16:43:34 GMT
Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4u0utn$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
        <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crablegs.cig.mot.com
In-reply-to: Bob Lewis's message of Thu, 08 Aug 1996 06:57:19 -0400
X-Face: oO`(VX'=H{Yu'LC8wV{jtbjehg1+1;QJTQy^NmN~W;~:Xn~B}C_am=>pYd"C?6EhWh^U.Wk2UNe]"1*CA|>"FJqVFE#YwZt61-8JYXNMA5Qvt8/J}>^.R[7Me-LPwbR<y)t<'x;J&BYL@;`+hgG}&z]+<p"hp[r4]CC:7PEU^Ipg*F

Bob Lewis <[e-mail]> writes:
> Maude Schyffert wrote:
> >
> > If you have a chance to try a mobile wip, I used one on a balcony for
> > two years. Restrictions, but operational and probably less
> > HF-interfearence than with a random indoor wire.

> Why not use two and make a dipole?  That would give a balanced antenna,
> reducing the need for a good RF ground (which is probably hard to come
> by in an apartment).

A local ham store sells a little $8 bracket for just that!

I've had mixed results with it during my *limited* testing. Not
knowing what to expect from the band (40m) probably did not help
either. It seems that the antennas need to be exactly the same length,
and it would probably help quite a bit if I also adjusted the length
of the stinger to retune the antenna for the portion of the band I
intend to use.

I'll be doing this in the near future (busy lately)..so if anyone is
intrested in knowing how it works out, just let me know!
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Knapp                     Motorola Inc, CIG
                                    1501 W Shure Dr. IL27-3227AR
Mail:  [e-mail]          Arlington Heights, IL 60004 USA


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:05 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:20:32 -0700
Organization: none
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>

> Text books that claim that a perfect conductor has oscillating internal
> fields are wrong. Please give me references so I can point these out to
> the publishers so that corrections can be made.

W.C. Johnson "Transmission Lines and Networks" Chapter 3, McGraw-Hill
1950  Johnson was head of electrical dept at Princeton University

MIT Staff "Magnetic Circuits and Transformers" Wiley 1943 Page 158

Terman "Radio Engineering" 1955 page 20

Dorf "Electrical Engineering Handbook" CRC Press 1993 p.1218

Williams and Taylor "Electronic Filter Design Handbook" Third Edition
McGraw-Hill 1995 page 9.3 (Litz wire discussion)

Any edition of the ARRL Handbook

These discussions of skin effect involve current flowing through a
conductor. The skin effect that you are talking about involves the
penetration of a wave into a conducting surface. The skin depth is the
same in both cases but the mechanisms are slightly different in their
explanations. For example see Kraus "Electromagnetics" Fourth Edition
Chapter 12 for the wave penetration skin effect that you are talking
about.

If we can get squared away on this issue I will be glad to continue the
discussion if you like. As far as getting all the text books changed,
that kind of rhetoric is something that I would like to dispense with.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:06 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 21 Aug 1996 16:19:40 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> writes:

>Hi Tom, I agree about the dipole. Not that I disagree, but what about
>a "plumbers delight" uninterrupted dipole? Is the voltage at least
>theoretically zero at one point?

Sure, with that type of feed we can find a point neutral to the outside
world.
With a regular series fed antenna we can't!

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:07 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:00:18 -0700
Organization: none
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4v8k75$[e-mail]> <4va8bk$[e-mail]> <4vb1v6$[e-mail]> <4vb891$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vd1u6$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vdniq$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vffki$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vfuuv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vgl4j$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Thank you for your kind comments.

My pleasure.

I have been cogitating very earnestly and carefully and have the
following response, to try to get us together on this basic topic before
getting back to the original issues:

I will assume for a moment that what you say is true. The E field inside
the wire is zero.

1)  Since the integral of the E field around a complete loop is
*constant*, as determined by the changing flux, then as we make the gap d
smaller and smaller the E field across the gap d would have to increase
in order to satisfy Faraday's law and V (=E*d) would be constant, just as
you say. That is, the integral of E is calculated only across the gap and
is zero along the surface of the wire (that's your premise).

2) But suppose instead we measure the voltage across half of the loop.
This voltage should be 1/2 of that across a full turn. There's something
wrong here. According to your theory the voltage at the half way tap is
zero because there is no voltage drop (no E field) in the wire. We are
talking about inductance. This one turn loop is an inductor, an
autotransformer, a simple one turn air wound coil. And if there is no E
field along the wire we are placing a short circuit across the gap. We
have a situation here.

3) The answer has to be that E is constant around the loop. That is
V=E*length of wire/(2*pi*radius). Let's go around the mulberry bush,
starting at one end of the gap. As we move along the wire the voltage
increases up to a maximum at the other end of the gap and then it drops
across the gap to the starting point. The result is zero, and that is
exactly what a closed loop E field is supposed to do. A closed E field
"line" is an equipotential path. That is, if we move a test charge around
a *complete* path the potential energy of the charge is the same as when
it started.  I believe the big boys call this a "conservative force
field".

4) J=E*sigma at a point. OK. Let sigma be greater than zero. Then suppose
the flux is continually increasing at a very slow but constant rate. E is
constant and so is V, across the gap. Then J would be constant, and
always in the same direction. We then have an unpleasant situation where
a constant current is flowing in the same direction around an open loop.
There is something wrong here.

5) The answer to this example is that J is zero. If I is the integral of
J, and if I is zero, then J is zero. There is a transient current that is
merely a "relaxation" effect that is used to readjust the charges in the
wire whenever E changes. I believe that is what Jackson was referring to,
but I would have to study Jackson some more to be sure what he is telling
me. I am not red hot on waveguides.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:09 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 22 Aug 1996 04:32:03 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <[e-mail]>, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> writes:

>The next obvious question is, where do we plug our voltmeter
>into the outside world common when our antenna is 100ft in
>the air? Actually, a serious question - How do we get a
>common reference under those circumstances?
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

That's a good question Cecil. We can likely only do that in theory, but it
doesn't bother our real world analysis.

This is a hard thing to explain, but let's take a whack at it.

If there is any potential difference between the dipole antenna and
anything that attaches to it, current will flow. The amount of common mode
current depends on the common mode impedance of the line and the stiffness
of the common mode voltage sources provided by the energized antenna.

For example, a dipole looks like two 35 ohm sides in series. Each side has
a pretty stiff voltage source that is 180 degrees out of phase, since the
common mode impedance of each side is pretty low. Imagine what would
happen if we hung another 1/4 wl wire from one dipole wire, the current on
one half would divide between the wires...current in the other half would
increase to the total of the other two currents.

If each side of the feedline looks equal in common mode load presented to
the dipole, common mode currents will be equal and cancel.

But sometimes the feedline looks like that 1/4 wl wire, as well as the
feedline.

Now if the antenna was a small loop, the change would be much less, There
would be no need for a balun. If the antenna was a full wave dipole, the
change would be VERY large. We would need a super good balun, because even
a high impedance hanging from one conductor would upset stuff.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:10 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:31:32 -0700
Organization: none
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Slight correction: If the conductor is *perfect* the skin depth would be
zero. Otherwise it is proportional to the square root of resistivity.
Nevertheless the mechanism for skin effect due to a current flowing
through a wire is exactly as described in the references.

Bill


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:11 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 21 Aug 1996 19:58:01 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4vfpo9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net
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  First, let me say that I prefer to use 50 ohm coax and W2DU
ferrite-sleeve "current" baluns these days, because I am
experimenting with strange antennas and I don't want spurious
feedline shield currents to affect the work.

[e-mail] wrote:

> Series fed dipoles have quite noticable voltages at every point.
> There is no point of zero voltage, there is only a minimum.  The
> minimum is at the electrical center of the half wave, and at that
> point each half would like to have 50% of the total exciting
> voltage.  From it to any independent neutral reference.

  This is true only for exact-center balanced feed.

  Yes, the voltage being driven into the feedpoint pushes the
feedpoint voltages apart, and in a perfectly balanced system both
sides of the feedpoint are at equal and opposite voltages with
respect to neutral.  In this case there is no zero point on the
antenna wire, only a hypothetical zero in the center of the antenna
center insulator.

  But if the antenna is fed slightly off center by a well isolated
source, there must be a zero voltage point, or a very nearly zero
voltage point, near the center of the antenna wire.  This point
will be slightly away from the center of the dipole, toward the
off-center feedpoint, because of the skewing effect of the feed
voltage.  By using coax cable and moving the feedpoint far enough
toward the center conductor "side", the shield can connect at the
zero voltage point.  Since the voltage at that point is zero, it
does not matter that the coax shield is not isolated.

  OK, it may not be an _absolutely perfect_ zero point.  It's
slightly away from the physical center of the dipole; dipole fields
would not be completely balanced out.  So, the coax would have to
zig over to that center, and then proceed down to the equipment.
And there might be small phase anomalies, etc.  But in the real
world, it would be close enough.  Current on the outside of the
coax would be pretty small, certainly compared to dead-center feed.
Probably far more outside shield current would result from
imperfect balance due to the typical paths feedlines take on their
way from the antenna to the equipment.

  However, that off-center feed balance would be hard to adjust in
the real world.  I am only presenting this to point out that it is
essentially possible, and particularly to suggest a reason that so
many people have had so many different experiences with simple
coax-fed dipoles.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:12 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 02:49:41 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
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   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
>   "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>I have been stewing over this subject for a long time, because
>>I have been sure that the conventional wisdom is incorrect and
>>that the things that J.C. Maxwell told us have not been properly
>>understood.

>Am I interpreting this correctly?
>
>If I hook a signal generator to a 50-ohm resistor (no other
>connections to the resistor) through a piece of 50-ohm coax,
>I won't see any current on the outside of the coax. But If I
>change the resistor to 200 ohms I will?

I disagree with Bill's analysis of this situation, but I also
have a problem with the resistor analogy.

Roy, are these resistors concentrically shielded?  If not, I
would be at a loss to see any mechanism that prevents RF from
flowing back toward the generator on the outside of the line.

Unless the comon mode impedance of the outer shield is very high
(or the resistors are shielded), I believe the change to a higher
resistor would create greater feedline radiation.  This assumes,
of course, the generator could be retuned to match the change in
impedance at the input to the coax.

I realize this is a somewhat different subject than the assertion
that fields travel through the braid.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 20:51:12 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
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Pass the salt. I'm eating my words for the second time today.

[e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:

>   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:

>>If the feed system for the twinlead was perfectly balanced such
>>and we use the same system when we replace the twinlead with coax,
>>there won't be any current on the outside of the coax. This is
>>because the current on the two conductors inside the coax are
>>equal and opposite. If total current provided the outer conductor is
>>equal to and opposite the current provided the center conductor, all
>>of it will flow on the inside, and there won't be any left over to
>>flow on the outside.

>Hi Roy,

>Perhaps I've misunderstood your meaning, but what prevents half
>the RF current that exits the inner shield from flowing out to
>the leg of the dipole, and the other half down the feedline?

Jack is right.

If the currents flowing into the two coax conductors are equal and
opposite, that insures there won't be any current on the outside of the
coax ONLY AT THE POINT AT WHICH THEY'RE EQUAL AND OPPOSITE. Here's an
example of a situation where a lot of current can flow on the outside of
the coax yet the two currents (current to the center conductor and current
to the shield) are equal and opposite at the transmitter:

Consider a dipole in free space fed with coax. The coax is 1/4 wavelength
long and is symmetrically placed with respect to the dipole. The
transmitter is hanging on the input end of the coax. The transmitter is
forcing equal and opposite currents to flow to the two coax conductors;
they have nowhere else to go. Yet at the antenna, a large proportion of the
current on the inside of the outer conductor flows to the outside. The
current on the outside of the coax is zero at the transmitter, but
increases in a sinusoidal manner to become very large at the antenna
feedpoint. (Computer simulation shows it to be about the same magnitude as
the current on the center conductor-fed dipole leg.) Balance at the
transmitter could be achieved a number of ways, including putting a current
balun there. So here's a case where a balun at the transmitter isn't
preventing feedline radiation.

If the same antenna were fed with twinlead, there would be no common-mode
current on the feedline (that is, the conductors would have equal and
opposite currents) and therefore no radiation.

When I was preparing my Compendium article years ago, I set up a dipole
with a half-wavelength feedline, and found that in many cases a balun at
the transmitter was nearly as good as a balun at the antenna feedpoint.
These measurements were using a half-wavelength, grounded feedline. The
above example shows that balun placement can make a large difference in
other cases.

My apology to the readers for the error, and my thanks to Jack and Tony for
pointing it out.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:14 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:12:10 -0700
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William E. Sabin wrote:

> I will assume for a moment that what you say is true. The E field inside
> the wire is zero.
>
> 1)  Since the integral of the E field around a complete loop is
> *constant*, as determined by the changing flux, then as we make the gap d
> smaller and smaller the E field across the gap d would have to increase
> in order to satisfy Faraday's law and V (=E*d) would be constant, just as
> you say. That is, the integral of E is calculated only across the gap and
> is zero along the surface of the wire (that's your premise).

et cetera

et cetera

snip

snip

The previous post being referred to here is my final response on this
particular topic. I believe it is in line with established principles and
is correct. Not only that, it "feels" right and agrees with my
experiences in RF/Af design.

I would like to make further contributions to the interesting subjects
that we have been discussing in this thread, but I don't want to argue
about this topic any more. Those who don't agree can draw their own
conclusions about the topic and also, if they wish, about W0IYH.

Best regards to all,

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 14:49:47 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4vkgc1$[e-mail]>
References: <4uoo4c$[e-mail]> <4uough$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4uu442$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vh3f6$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vh3f6$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:

>. . .

>Now, replace the dipole with a non-resonant variant.  Also,
>assume that the feedline length (which remains unchanged), in
>conjunction with dipole length, creates ten times the voltage
>at the feedpoint of the dipole as in the previous example.
>Under these conditions, the increased voltage at the feedpoint
>resulting from VSWR will cause more current to flow down the line.

>. . .

Any increase in feedpoint voltage is due to an increase in antenna
impedance (V = P^2/Z), not the SWR on the feedline. You can change the
feedline characteristic impedance, hence the SWR, without changing the
feedpoint voltage or common-mode feedline current (presuming that you
readjust your tuner to deliver the same power to the antenna).

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 02:48:14 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
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   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
>   [e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:

>>Now, replace the dipole with a non-resonant variant.  Also,
>>assume that the feedline length (which remains unchanged), in
>>conjunction with dipole length, creates ten times the voltage
>>at the feedpoint of the dipole as in the previous example.
>>Under these conditions, the increased voltage at the feedpoint
>>resulting from VSWR will cause more current to flow down the line.

>Any increase in feedpoint voltage is due to an increase in antenna
>impedance (V = P^2/Z), not the SWR on the feedline. You can change
>the feedline characteristic impedance, hence the SWR, without
>changing the feedpoint voltage or common-mode feedline current
>(presuming that you readjust your tuner to deliver the same power to
>the antenna).

Roy,

The cause of elevated SWR in most ham shacks isn't the line,
it's the antenna.  Because the line is nearly always fixed at
50 ohms, a high SWR usually indicates the antenna impedance
is the "culprit".  That's the situation I was thinking of
in relation to these comments.

You're certainly correct about the distinction between SWR
and antenna impedance, though.  I probably shouldn't have
linked the two so casually.  I also think I confused the
issue by mentioning feedline length, which is irrelevant in
the context I presented it.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:19 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 05:42:29 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> >The bottom line for this discussion is that the coax braid *can* and
> >*does* have a common mode electric field due to its SWR. The center lead
> >has this voltage gradient along its length and it is a perfect
conductor.
> >If its OK for the center lead then why isn't it OK for the shield? As I
> >mentioned previously, the exception occurs if we can force the braid to
> >be buried in a perfect ground environment. Then and only then is it
truly
> >at zero potential, with respect to the grounded end of the generator.

>>. . .

>Roy Lewallen wrote:
>> Am I interpreting this correctly?
>>
>> If I hook a signal generator to a 50-ohm resistor (no other
>> connections to the resistor) through a piece of 50-ohm coax, I won't see
>> any current on the outside of the coax. But If I change the resistor to
200
>> ohms I will?

>No, that was not my message at all. I didn't suggest that.

Thanks for the clarification. Then perhaps the common-mode electric
field you've said is created doesn't produce a corresponding common-mode
current? Despite what I've seen written, I just don't see how a cable's
SWR can impact the existence or magnitude of common-mode current. I'd like
to devise a simple experiment to test or illustrate the hypothesis. Perhaps
you could suggest one.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:23 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 05:39:38 -0700
Organization: none
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Roy Lewallen wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>,
>    "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> > >The bottom line for this discussion is that the coax braid *can* and
> > >*does* have a common mode electric field due to its SWR.



If there is an SWR on a coax, that means that the standing wave RMS
voltage at point X is different than the standing wave RMS voltage at
point X + delta X. There is a longitudinal component of RMS voltage.

In a coax that is hanging in free space it seems reasonable that this
longitudinal voltage difference is divided in some proportion (not
equally) between the center lead and the braid. If the braid is
thoroughly grounded then all of this longitudinal voltage component is in
the center lead.

In a parallel line both wires would share this longitudinal component
equally.

The misconception is that we tend to assume that in free space and in
*normal* operation, but with SWR, the coax shield is at ground potential.
Not true.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 16:19:43 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
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In article <4vlqs3$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:
>   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:

>>. . .

>>If I hook a signal generator to a 50-ohm resistor (no other
>>connections to the resistor) through a piece of 50-ohm coax,
>>I won't see any current on the outside of the coax. But If I
>>change the resistor to 200 ohms I will?
>
>I disagree with Bill's analysis of this situation, but I also
>have a problem with the resistor analogy.
>
>Roy, are these resistors concentrically shielded?  If not, I
>would be at a loss to see any mechanism that prevents RF from
>flowing back toward the generator on the outside of the line.

I'll try to do this without a picture, so it might help to sketch one as I
try to describe it.

The left side of the resistor is connected to the center conductor, the
right side of the resistor to the shield. I1 amps comes out of the center
conductor. I1 amps goes into the left side of the resistor. I1 amps goes
out of the right side of the resistor. Because the current on the inside of
the shield equals the current on the center conductor, I1 amps flows into
the coax and along the inside of the shield. Use Kirchoff's law to
determine what the current on the outside of the shield will be.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:27 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 16:34:04 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vnarh$[e-mail]>
References: <4v8k75$[e-mail]> <4va8bk$[e-mail]> <4vb1v6$[e-mail]> <4vb891$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vd1u6$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vdniq$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4viqqq$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vm4ls$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>If there is an SWR on a coax, that means that the standing wave RMS
>voltage at point X is different than the standing wave RMS voltage at
>point X + delta X. There is a longitudinal component of RMS voltage.

Does this produce a common-mode current either inside or outside the
shield?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 16:32:07 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <4vnans$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vmocv$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>In article <4vh4fv$[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:
>
>>
>>Before I answer your question, I want to mention that I did a
>>rather poor job wording that paragraph.  It's true that
>>balanced fields prevent radiation, but in this case, that puts
>>the cart before the horse.  The true nature of the coax is that
>>the shield prevents the escape of current and fields from inside
>>the cable, and this forces the inner currents and fields to
>>always be in balance.
>
>Do you really mean that? Take the case to the extreme. If I excite an
>electrically short piece of coax with RF, and the shield is unterminated
>at both ends, will the current in the center conductor and the shield be
>equal (and opposite)?

Definitely. Whatever current you force onto the center conductor will be
replicated on the inside. And since there's no other path, all of it will
return via the outside. That is, the current on the inside will be equal
and opposite to the current on the outside; the net field will be equal to
that created by the center conductor alone. Of course, unless you have a
return path other than the shield, the current will be small.

>What if I only terminate the shield at one end?

Same result.

> What
>if I terminate the load to a point six inches back from the end, are
>currents equal on the shield towards the open shield end beyond the point
>where the load connected to the shield?

Yes. And the current on the inside will flow along the outside to the
termination point. C'mon, Tom, this ain't hard. Just draw the currents and
see what happens. You can even use Kirchoff's law.

>>Regarding your question, I am saying that the cable cannot
>>radiate from the inside out.  Current and fields will not
>>pass through the shield.

>If I made a vertical antenna from coax, and fed the center conductor while
>allowing the shield to float, are you saying the coax would not radiate?
>
>>>Current doesn't need to spill over, it can flow right through
>>>the shield.
>>
>>No, skin effect contains the current within the cable.
>
>Well, ok. If the shield is a solid piece of metal of perfect conductivity,
>all current will flow to the end and "spill around". My cables have
>resistivity as well as woven shield conductors on the outside with air
>gaps.

Any current that gets through will radiate. If you're getting 1% of the
current through, you have some pretty rotten cable.

>. . .

Pardon me for answering questions which were directed mostly to Jack. It
might help to get a second slant on things.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 20:34:30 GMT
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   Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hi Jack, When I was in high school, my Elmer showed me how to get
>out very well on 80m with a 40m coax-fed dipole, assuming a good
>grounding system which I had in East Texas. At the tuner, short
>the coax inner conductor to the outer shield and feed it from the
>"wire" output on the tuner. He told me this was the "Marconi method"
>of feeding. It certainly proves that coax can be configured so the
>inner and outer conductor currents are not equal/opposite.

Cecil, I didn't say the inner and outer conductor currents are
equal.  I said the two currents inside the coax are equal and
opposite.  Is there something in the use of coax in the way
you've described that seems to contradict this claim?

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:30 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:11:31 -0700
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Roy Lewallen wrote:
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I have a problem with the concept of
> defining the voltage between two points separated in space by a significant
> fraction of a wavelength. So I tend to think in terms of current, or
> voltage between closely-spaced conductors.

The "slotted line" test equipment or the "Lecher line" measures the
change in the voltage across two closely spaced conductors as a function
of distance along the line. The old "twin lamp" compares currents at
two places on twin lead. These deltas are what we have in mind.

>
> If we have a grounded transmitter feeding a dipole through a half
> wavelength of transmission line, and the dipole impedance perfectly matches
> that of the transmission line, a substantial current will flow on the
> outside of the coax.

Sure, this is the spurious mode that a balun will try to prevent. Also,
if the coax braid is 1/4 wave (at 0.95 velocity factor) then presumably
the balun is not needed (this insight courtesy of W. Maxwell).

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 00:28:02 GMT
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   [e-mail] (K1BQT) wrote:

Hi Rick,

Welcome to the group.

>As I see it, there are two ways to do this--(a) drop the feedline
>exactly beneath the radiator so that the relationship of the
>outer is exactly the same to both legs (thus cancelling), or to
>install a choke of some sort to raise the resistance of the outer
>so that it is proportionately VERY high compared to the
>resistance of the element.

Actually, both methods are necessary to minimize feedline current.
The current occurs for two different reasons.  If a balun isn't
used, current exiting the far end of the coax will "spill over"
and travel back down the outside of the feedline.  This is
distinctly different than the phenomenon of currents induced onto
the outer shield by the antenna itself.

>Beads may do this effectively with a low-VSWR center-fed
>antenna.  However, for an OCF dipole (like the discpole)--which
>is not fed at the current loop--a high-Q coaxial choke may be
>needed in order to develop sufficient reactance to isolate the
>line.

Even a coaxial choke may not force balance at the antenna if the
impedance at the feedpoint is too high.  Any current that "gets
through" the choke will steal current from one leg of the antenna.

>All of this suggests to me that what goes on between the inner
>surfaces of the line and what goes on between the outer surface
>and near-by elements are two seperate matters.

They interact to some extent, but your conclusion is correct.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:32 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 00:28:17 GMT
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       [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
  >[e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:

>>Roy, are these resistors concentrically shielded?  If not, I
>>would be at a loss to see any mechanism that prevents RF from
>>flowing back toward the generator on the outside of the line.

>I'll try to do this without a picture, so it might help to sketch
>one as I try to describe it.

Thank you for NOT drawing a picture. Maybe other readers will
think it was actually very complicated.  ;)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 24 Aug 1996 22:39:20 -0400
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In article <4vlqs3$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>
>Roy, are these resistors concentrically shielded?  If not, I
>would be at a loss to see any mechanism that prevents RF from
>flowing back toward the generator on the outside of the line.
>

This server I use takes forever to post!

This is what I was trying to figure out how to explain (and did a rotten
job :-) )! I was concerned about using skin effect (caused by eddy
currents) to treat a shield's inside and outside surface as separate
uncoupled conductors.

An unshielded resistor at the end of a coaxial line will not upset balance
or allow current to "spill over" unless the resistor is coupled to
"something" else. Certainly there is some effect, but with a normal sized
component at frequencies where the resistor is a very small fraction of a
wl the effect is small. On HF, forget it. You'll never measure or notice
the effect in any practical application.

That's why a conventionally mounted electrically small balanced loop
induces virtually no common mode current on a transmission line even
without a balun, and a large dipole does. The small loop has a very high
common mode impedance, and the dipole has a very low common mode
impedance. My point being it's more what you hook to the end than anything
spilling over that's the problem.

Only opposite phase currents on the center conductor and shield cause the
shield to behave like a shield. If we do anything to unbalance phase or
amount of current returning through the shield, the line will radiate. A
shield is only a shield (for time varying fields) when it carries equal
and opposite currents. That includes the cabinet of your rig.

That's why all the corners and every few inches along the case need
"grounded". In the example of a resistor at the end of the line, only the
resistor radiates...and not much because of it's very low radiation
resistance.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:35 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 25 Aug 1996 09:04:18 -0400
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In article <4vn65c$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (K1BQT)
writes:

>or to install a choke of some sort to raise the resistance of
>the outer so that it is proportionately VERY high compared to the
>resistance of the element.  Beads may do this effectively with a low-VSWR
>center-fed antenna.  However, for an OCF dipole (like the
discpole)--which
>is not fed at the current loop--a high-Q coaxial choke may be needed in
>order to develop sufficient reactance to isolate the line.  All of this
>suggests to me that what goes on between the inner surfaces of the line
>and what goes on between the outer surface and near-by elements are two
>seperate matters.

Hi Rick,

As a person with dog tooth marks on the leg often says, you have a good
point.

I don't even like to think about inner and outer because the problem even
applies to twin (and more) wire lines. It's more than a coax thing, and a
dipole thing. And an inner and outer thing. It's a common mode thing.

For example, suppose the center conductor is excited by common mode
current, and not the shield? What about a 1/4 wl coax with the shield
floating and the center excited against ground? Where are equal and
opposite currents on the shield and center found? Where is the current
near the feedpoint, on the center or the shield?

The shield is only a shield when the cable is properly excited. And
current can appear on the shield without marching around the ends.

It can become like the debate about electric fields inside the conductor.
My daddy always used to hold his hand out and say "It's like this, son.
Then you turn it over and it's like that." and he would flip his hand back
over the other way and wink. Sometimes there is more than one way to look
at things, the only important thing is it always works.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 22:33:31 GMT
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       [e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:
   > Cecil Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>If the center conductor and the shield of coax are shorted
>>together at the transmitter, it is impossible for the two
>>currents to be primarily differential ...

>2.  The second scenario is that the shield and center conductor
>at the bottom of the line are shorted together, but the center
>conductor is not enclosed. Current flows up the outside of the
>shield, the inside of the shield, and also on the center
>conductor.  Current flowing on the center conductor creates an
>equal and opposite current on the inner shield.

Five minutes after I wrote this, I knew it was wrong.
Unfortunately, I was already on my way to work. (Gotta get a
'Net connection in my car.)  ;)

Anyway, I believe it's much more plausible NO current will
flow up the inside of the feedline under these conditions.
The inside of the cable will not support common mode current.
Therefore, if external conditions attempt to force this
condition, internal fields will reject any current which
attempts to flow.  The greater the applied voltage, the
greater the opposing fields inside the cable will be.

This does not mean the cable has no internal currents, only
that they do not flow in from the bottom.  So, it appears that
scenario #1 and scenario #2 in my previous post are actually
one and the same.

Sorry for any confusion.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:37 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 20:37:58 GMT
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   "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>If we have a grounded transmitter feeding a dipole through
>>a half wavelength of transmission line, and the dipole impedance
>>perfectly matches that of the transmission line, a substantial
>>current will flow on the outside of the coax.

>Sure, this is the spurious mode that a balun will try to prevent.
>Also, if the coax braid is 1/4 wave (at 0.95 velocity factor)
>then presumably the balun is not needed (this insight courtesy
>of W. Maxwell).

I just wanted to add that in the real world, there will be a
certain electrical length between the transmitter chassis and
ground.  As a result, cutting the line itself to 1/4 wavelength
is no guarantee that a balun can be dispensed with.  The system
as a whole must act as 1/4 wavelength from the antenna feedpoint
to ground.

Also, this won't work if the chassis is isolated from ground.
In addition to undesired current flow, the 1/4 wave line will
transform the current loop at the feedpoint of the antenna to
a very high voltage.  That voltage will then appear on the
chassis of the transmitter.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:40 1996
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From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:59:45 GMT
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In <4vqdrj$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(WB3U) writes:
>
>I just wanted to add that in the real world, there will be a
>certain electrical length between the transmitter chassis and
>ground.  As a result, cutting the line itself to 1/4 wavelength
>is no guarantee that a balun can be dispensed with.  The system
>as a whole must act as 1/4 wavelength from the antenna feedpoint
>to ground.
>
>Also, this won't work if the chassis is isolated from ground.
>In addition to undesired current flow, the 1/4 wave line will
>transform the current loop at the feedpoint of the antenna to
>a very high voltage.  That voltage will then appear on the
>chassis of the transmitter.
>
>73,
>Jack  WB3U

Jack,

I'm not sure I understand how this occurs.  I think you're talking
about a common-mode voltage rather than differential-mode, since the
differential-mode voltage at the transmitter is just the transmitter's
output voltage.  But if both the antenna *and* the transmitter are
isolated from ground, how can we say anything about the voltages on
them, which I assume you are referencing to ground?

Thanks in advance for any help!

- Jeff, WA6AHL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:41 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:18:39 -0700
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WB3U wrote:
>
>    "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >>If we have a grounded transmitter feeding a dipole through
> >>a half wavelength of transmission line, and the dipole impedance
> >>perfectly matches that of the transmission line, a substantial
> >>current will flow on the outside of the coax.
>
> >Sure, this is the spurious mode that a balun will try to prevent.
> >Also, if the coax braid is 1/4 wave (at 0.95 velocity factor)
> >then presumably the balun is not needed (this insight courtesy
> >of W. Maxwell).
>
> I just wanted to add that in the real world, there will be a
> certain electrical length between the transmitter chassis and
> ground.  As a result, cutting the line itself to 1/4 wavelength
> is no guarantee that a balun can be dispensed with.  The system
> as a whole must act as 1/4 wavelength from the antenna feedpoint
> to ground.
>
> Also, this won't work if the chassis is isolated from ground.
> In addition to undesired current flow, the 1/4 wave line will
> transform the current loop at the feedpoint of the antenna to
> a very high voltage.  That voltage will then appear on the
> chassis of the transmitter.

You are right Jack, that is why a "grounded" transmitter was specified.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:44 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:16:26 +0100
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Bill Sabin wrote:
>
>
>Sure, this is the spurious mode that a balun will try to prevent. Also,
>if the coax braid is 1/4 wave (at 0.95 velocity factor) then presumably
>the balun is not needed (this insight courtesy of W. Maxwell).

Isn't this back where we started?

We all agree that there are a few special cases where no current "wants"
to flow down the outside of the coax, because the driving EMF is zero
(or very, very  close) and/or there is a high impedance against current
flow.

But that isn't the same as saying "a balun is not needed". If a bird
lands on one leg of the dipole, there will then be an EMF and some
current will flow. Immediately, you'll wish you had a choke balun to
prevent it.

In practical engineering terms, you still do "need a balun" in a
situation like that, to make sure that the antenna always works the way
it should.

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:45 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 26 Aug 1996 18:31:17 GMT
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William E. Sabin ([e-mail]) wrote:
: > In article <[e-mail]>,
: >    "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
: >
: > > >The bottom line for this discussion is that the coax braid *can* and
: > > >*does* have a common mode electric field due to its SWR.



: If there is an SWR on a coax, that means that the standing wave RMS
: voltage at point X is different than the standing wave RMS voltage at
: point X + delta X. There is a longitudinal component of RMS voltage.

: In a coax that is hanging in free space it seems reasonable that this
: longitudinal voltage difference is divided in some proportion (not
: equally) between the center lead and the braid. If the braid is
: thoroughly grounded then all of this longitudinal voltage component is in
: the center lead.

: In a parallel line both wires would share this longitudinal component
: equally.

: The misconception is that we tend to assume that in free space and in
: *normal* operation, but with SWR, the coax shield is at ground potential.
: Not true.


I think under most circumstances where we use coaxial transmission lines,
they act as linear systems.  An SWR other than 1:1 simply means that
the line has energy travelling both directions on  the line, and the
fields involved are linear combinations of the fields which result from
the energy travelling in each direction independently.  There will be
no difference with or without standing waves:  if in a 1:1 situation
there is no longitudinal component on the outside of the line, then
there will not be if the SWR is not 1:1, given that nothing else has
changed.  You could normally accomplish that, for example, by replacing a
center conductor with one of another diameter.  If there is an AC electric
field between this assumed vertical piece of wire above a ground plane
and the plane, then there will be radiation.  There will be antenna
currents on the wire.  But they will not be caused by standing waves
inside the line.


--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 15:40:55 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>,
   "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>. . .

>10) Assume a length of coax suspended in space, feeding an antenna. Let
>there be an SWR on the coax. Do you suppose that the outside of the coax
>is at ground potential. It is most certainly not. The common mode
>electric field due to SWR exists on the outside also. Common sense tells
>us that the thickness of the braid cannot support a voltage difference
>between the inside and outside. But in this situation the conditions for
>radiation do not exist if the H field is cancelled. The power flow (the
>Poynting vector) is inside the coax. If the coax braid is connected to a
>perfect ground plane, the inside of the braid would also be at ground
>potential.

I hope you'll be patient with me -- I'm sometimes slow to catch on to new
concepts. I'm having trouble seeing what cable SWR has to do with this
situation. As I pointed out in an example in an earlier posting, a
perfectly-matched coax -- with an SWR of 1:1 -- feeding an antenna can
certainly have a "hot" shield. The SWR determines the voltage between the
inner and outer conductors, but I don't see how this translates to a
voltage between the shield and ground. And how do you measure the voltage
between ground and a shield which is 1/4 wavelength from it?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:47 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: basic antenna help
Date: 26 Aug 1996 14:24:00 GMT
Organization: Sam Houston State University
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I have a little problem with my beam. First off let me explain that I have
a ground plane verticle 40' up which does fantastic. I recently got a beam,
16' 12 elements, with a reflector at the rear, and installed it at the same
heigth as the verticle. Using the same radio the verticle does better than
the beam! Any suggestions? Let me explain what we have checked so far,
and remember that it could be something very basic as I am really new to
all this:

1: SWR on the verticle is 1.1:1, the beam is 1.2:1
2: forward power is about 42 watts, reflected is about 3 watts. (beam)
3: all feed lines and the gamma match cables have been checked for opens.

Things I have noticed:

1: If the beam is pointed south, the verticle can reach further south than the
        beam can.
2: the beam is not grounded because of where it is mounted.
3: the beam does not seem to have any provisions for a ground.
4: the beam has quite a bit more background noise than the verticle.

Any and all help would be appreciated. Please reply via email.

Allan Hall                            [e-mail]
Falcon Technologies                 http://www.shsu.edu/~vis_cah
Team OS/2                          BBS: 409-291-3322
KC5VQH



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:48 1996
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From: KI4RO John <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Belden 8213 QF?
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 15:49:38 -0700
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Anyone know what this coax is?
Characteristic impedance etc?

73


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:49 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Bruce Bowling)
Subject: Broadcast Loop Antenna
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I have a formula for making big loop antenna for the Broadcast
band, which assume a square or rectangler shape:

h = length of one side in feet.
n = number of integer wire turns

l = lenth of other side in feet = ((20.196/n)**2)/h

and total length of wire in feet = n * 2 * (l+h)

Question: Will this equation work for other shapes, like octagons, triangles,
etc? Is the equation based on the enclosed area of the loops, or what?

Thanks - Bruce


-----------------------------------------------------
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-----------------------------------------------------
               Bruce A. Bowling
  Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls
 The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility
    12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602
                 [phone]
               [e-mail]
-----------------------------------------------------
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-----------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:50 1996
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From: Jake Brodsky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Broadcast Loop Antenna
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:32:08 -0700
Organization: Wheeeeee!
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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Bruce Bowling wrote:
>
> I have a formula for making big loop antenna for the Broadcast
> band, which assume a square or rectangler shape:
>
> h = length of one side in feet.
> n = number of integer wire turns
>
> l = lenth of other side in feet = ((20.196/n)**2)/h
>
> and total length of wire in feet = n * 2 * (l+h)
>
> Question: Will this equation work for other shapes, like octagons,
> triangles, etc? Is the equation based on the enclosed area of the loops,
> or what?
>

Just based on intuition (and Maxwell's laws) your loop is probably
based on crossing a certain area of magnetic flux in a given space.

What this means is that yes, the area the loop slices through
is important, but an octagonal approximation ought to be pretty
close.  A triangular approximation will probably work too, but
at somewhat reduced performance.  I suspect you can get an
estimate by figuring the area difference between a full circle
and a triangle with the same circumference.  This should be the
square root of three.  Now use the decible equation for current
(the same as the one for voltage) I come out with about 4.8 dB
difference.

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:[e-mail]
PP-ASEL-IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ MD24
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
"Beware of the massive impossible!"


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:51 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Common mode currents
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:13:33 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vbnqd$[e-mail]> <4vdiud$[e-mail]> <4ve2cr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn15.frazmtn.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On 21 Aug 1996 04:13:15 GMT, [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
wrote:

>    In the "olden days" convention had it to transpose the parallel
>lines at ...say 6' intervals. (special spacers accomplish this were
>made by Johnson and others).  Folk-lore especially recommended this for
>minimal received noise.
>
>    Do you see any theoretical truth to support this method?
>
>    -=Tony=-    W6ANV   in San Francisco, CA
>
Hi Tony,  Johnson also made feed line spacers less than 6".  This is
the first time I heard the "minimal received noise" concerning 6"
line.  One of the reasons why 6" spaceing was so popular is that it's
impedance is effected less by rain,snow and ice compared to the closer
spaceing.
73, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:52 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Common mode currents
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:42:40 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ve2cr$[e-mail]> <4vfu7h$[e-mail]>
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Tom Bruhns wrote:
> Perhaps others with more practical two-wire-line experience will comment.
> Cecil?

Hi Tom, all I can report is that I have been unsuccessful in appreciably
reducing my common mode currents whether symetrical/asymetrical feed and/or
a twisted/no-twist tranmsission line. Someone suggested antenna inertia is
to blame. But I believe it's got to be evil spirits. While I was trying to
force equal currents, a storm really unbalanced everything - one pole up
and one pole down.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:53 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Common mode currents
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 04:25:09 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4vm0f1$[e-mail]>
References: <4vbnqd$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Gary Coffman) wrote:

>If we operate a balanced antenna, like a dipole, far from Earth,
>we won't have common mode currents on the transmission line
>because the loop won't be closed (the induction field is a
>near field effect and rapidly diminishes with distance).

This is wrong.  The outside of the feedline will conduct and
radiate RF regardless of its proximity to the Earth.  If no
balun is used, the outside of the shield is merely a third
antenna leg and it will conduct and radiate as a function of
its electrical length.

>If we operate the antenna near Earth, we can still break the
>loop with a choke balun, and again no common mode currents can
>flow.

The balun reduces common mode current because it interrupts the
current path.  That path exists due to the radiation resistance
exhibited by the outer shield, not because it is part of an
imaginary "loop".

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:54 1996
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From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: common mode--uncommon mode
Date: 27 Aug 1996 12:52:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4vur28$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pax-ca25-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 27  5:52:24 AM PDT 1996

In <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Daniel F. Stiles) writes:

>          ... VOA engineering
>          decided that the solution during the dry season
>          was to not run the transmitters at full power but
>          run them at half power and every thing will be
>          fine.
>
Speaking as an EE, I would have thought the obvious solution would have
been to install sprinklers.  Instant wet season, year round!

- Jeff, WA6AHL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:55 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!metro.atlanta.com!usenet
From: "William M. McClatchey" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Computer Controlled Antenna Switch
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 01:24:33 -0400
Organization: Internet Atlanta
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I live in a high rise with several vertical
antennas on the roof.  I have two 450ft runs of low
loss cable coming into the shack.  I routinely like
to monitor packet on VHF and some digital HF.
There is a computer at the shack on a LAN that can
be remotely controlled from a great distance thanks
to Windows NT and RAS.

The problem:  I live in a high lightning area and
need to have the computer unswitch the antennas by
remote control during storms.  Does anyone know of
a device that will control HF cable(s) through an
RS232 serial interface on a computer?  Someone else
must have sucessfully dealt with this problem...

Thanks!


Bill  KK4C


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:56 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ed Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CORRECTION - FCC Ruling Will Require Some Hams to File Environmental Impact Reports
Date: 24 Aug 1996 02:23:57 GMT
Organization: Virtual Publishing Co.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4vlp3t$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vcvs2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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We've added a link to Ham Radio Online to the Frequently Asked Questions
about Cellular, PCS and Human Health issues, prepared by John Moulder, Ph.D.
You may find this information useful in this dicussion.

Some of the previous postings in this thread have contained interesting
information, often based on true stories, but also quoted incorrectly or
interpreted wrong. Unfortunately, I don't have time to respond in detail but
though it important to note that some of the info here is not correct.

Visit us at http://www.hamradio-online.com
------------------------
Ed (KF7VY) and Kim (N7VPL) Mitchell
email to [e-mail]
Visit Ham Radio Online, it's free! at
http://www.hamradio-online.com



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:02:57 1996
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From: Steve Ickes <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CORRECTION - FCC Ruling Will Require Some Hams to File Environmental Impact Reports
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:56:07 -0700
Organization: WB3HUZ/Baltimore
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vcvs2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Fred McKenzie wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> (Gary Coffman) wrote:
> > There is documented evidence that exposures of greater than 10 mW/cm^2
> > can cause harm. In particular, cataracts or loss of focal flexibility
> > due to RF heating of the lens of the eye, and in some cases cancers.
>
> Gary-
>
> I believe you!  Now, how does that relate to the average Ham?  Although 10
> mW/cm^2 sounds like a miniscule amount, it doesn't sound so bad when you
> convert it to 100 W/M^2 (did I do that right?).
>
> What are "real world" exposure levels that a Ham is likely to encounter in
> each of several areas of the Ham spectrum?  Suppose I have a 100 Watt HF
> transceiver to a dipole, about 20 feet off the ground.  Is anyone at risk
> while I'm on the air?  What if I run a KW?  What if I use a beam that is
> 50 feet up?
>
> How about a typical Two Meter installation?
>
> What I'm leading up to, is that the FCC might accomplish more, if they
> were to perform the math (or make the measurements) for common situations,
> and publish examples where harm might occur.
>
> 73, Fred, K4DII


You're on the right track.  If you read the Report&Order, other services
like paging, cellular, etc, received exepmtions for specific scenarios
(like for a given antenna, antenna height, and power below some level).

Why the ARRL went with the silly "prudent avoidance" (whatever that
means)approach is beyond me.  What exemption did we wind up with?  One,
less than 50 watts (irrespective of freqy, mode, antenna type and height.
This makes no sense.  The ARRL "dropped the ball" again.

S


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Ohrstal Fembrock)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CORRECTION - FCC Ruling Will Require Some Hams to File Environmental Impact Reports
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:28:45 GMT
Organization: Systems Solutions Inc. (Arizona's Internet Provider)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4vcvs2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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[e-mail] (Fred McKenzie) wrote:


>I believe you!  Now, how does that relate to the average Ham?  Although 10
>mW/cm^2 sounds like a miniscule amount, it doesn't sound so bad when you
>convert it to 100 W/M^2 (did I do that right?).
>
>What are "real world" exposure levels that a Ham is likely to encounter in
>each of several areas of the Ham spectrum?  Suppose I have a 100 Watt HF
>transceiver to a dipole, about 20 feet off the ground.  Is anyone at risk
>while I'm on the air?  What if I run a KW?  What if I use a beam that is
>50 feet up?
>
>How about a typical Two Meter installation?
>
>What I'm leading up to, is that the FCC might accomplish more, if they
>were to perform the math (or make the measurements) for common situations,
>and publish examples where harm might occur.
>
>73, Fred, K4DII


Now that makes sense Fred.  Will it happen?  Hell no. Because that
makes sense Fred.




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Frey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Diamond V-2000A question
Date: 26 Aug 1996 11:20:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4vs19t$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Bill Frey)
NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.ins.cwru.edu


I purchased a tribander Diamond V-2000A antenna over the weekend.
I saw some radials in the package and a what they call counterpoise.

I found 2 radials that fit in the bottom and are the groundplane but the
other groundradial was not there. The counterpoise (fits in the other hole
I presume) has a black coil type and an adjustable extension. There is no
other place for the thing to fit so I suppose that's where it goes. I
expected it to fit on the top but no such luck.

Does it go on the bottom or did they fail to package it right?
What does it do? Is it an adjustment for 6 meter band and if so, how does
it work? I mean does the groundplane setting affect 6 meter operation?

The 2 meter and 440 antenna connections have no adjustment possibilities so
my prying fingers can't mess that up  :-)

Anyone can help??????
Thanks   de    KB8UNC


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:02 1996
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From: Steve Ickes <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:46:33 -0700
Organization: WB3HUZ/Baltimore
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]>
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Chris Allingham wrote:
>
> I've just started reading this newsgroup so I hope this thread hasn't gone b
y
> recently....here goes.
>
> Is there a way to calculate the impedance at any point along a feedline?  Sa
y,
> for example you have a length of 450 Ohm open-wire, can you calculate the
> impedance at 0.15 wavelengths?  Do I have enough information to calculate th
e
> impedance or do I need more information such as the load impedance, whether
the
> line is open or short circuited, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris


Yes, you need more info.  Specifically, you need operating freqy, and
load impedance and the velocity factor of the line.  The formulas are in
the ARRL Ant HB but are quite complex.

 I wouldn't want to do too many calculations by hand if I didn't have to.
 I used MATHCAD to calculate the formulas iteratively so I could find the
input impedance and SWR of any length of line for a given load.

S

S


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:03 1996
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From: Chris Allingham <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Feedline impedance
Date: 23 Aug 1996 13:34:41 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]>
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X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna

I've just started reading this newsgroup so I hope this thread hasn't gone by
recently....here goes.

Is there a way to calculate the impedance at any point along a feedline?  Say,
for example you have a length of 450 Ohm open-wire, can you calculate the
impedance at 0.15 wavelengths?  Do I have enough information to calculate the
impedance or do I need more information such as the load impedance, whether th
e
line is open or short circuited, etc.

Thanks in advance,


Chris



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:04 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:17:29 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]> <4vl7pe$[e-mail]>
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Osmo Vuorio wrote:
> Of course, the facts must be known before it is possible to
> calculate the resulting impedance. A wave travels to the load
> (an antenna) and a part of it is reflected backwards..

Hi Osmo, I didn't see the original posting but if someone is using
ladder-line, a very simple current pickup loop can used on the ladder-
line to find the impedance at any point including at the antenna
and at the feedpoint. It's a great advantage to know exactly what
impedance one is dealing with.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:04 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:21:49 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]> <4vl7pe$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn6.frazmtn.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:17:29 -0700, Cecil Moore
<[e-mail]> wrote:
snip snip
>
>Hi Osmo, I didn't see the original posting but if someone is using
>ladder-line, a very simple current pickup loop can used on the ladder-
>line to find the impedance at any point including at the antenna
>and at the feedpoint. It's a great advantage to know exactly what
>impedance one is dealing with.
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

Hi Cecil,  What am I missing?  How does one "exactly" know the
impedance at any point on ladder-line using a "current probe"?  With
the current probe, how do you find the magnitude and the phase angle,
which you need to calculate impedance?
Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:06:28 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]> <4vl7pe$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vq5uu$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:01:19 GMT, [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
wrote:

>On 25 Aug 1996 18:27:42 GMT, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
>wrote:
>
>
>Hi Cecil, I missed the thread on the description of your "Ladder -
>Lizzard".  Does one need a calibrated Lizzard for each band?
>How do you maintain coupling accuracy at the different measuring
>points on the transmission line, in order to accurately calculate the
>VSWR?  I'm a little suspicous concerning the accuracy  of the
>differential rf voltage measurement using the hardware you describe.
>Accurately measuring  a balanced, complex load thru a balanced line
>with standing waves is not an easy task, even with the best of test
>equipment.  Just measuring the VF and Impedance  of open-wire  or
>ladder line requires equipment the average ham dosn't have.
>Using your G5RV as an example: If the G5RV was up 60'  and had 100'
>of 450 ohm ladder line.  Using your hardware (Lizzard) how would you
>accurately determine the feed point impedance?  I think it would be
>real difficult. (I have never been wrong  or told a lie in my life!
>:-)....Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT
>
P.S.  The above frequency should be 28mhz
73, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:06 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!pegasus.odyssee.net!news
From: MADJID VE2GMI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:59:29 -0400
Organization: C++
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]>
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Chris Allingham wrote:
>
> I've just started reading this newsgroup so I hope this thread hasn't gone b
y
> recently....here goes.
>
> Is there a way to calculate the impedance at any point along a feedline?  Sa
y,
> for example you have a length of 450 Ohm open-wire, can you calculate the
> impedance at 0.15 wavelengths?  Do I have enough information to calculate th
e
> impedance or do I need more information such as the load impedance, whether
the
> line is open or short circuited, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris

You don't really need to know the load impedance. There are
formulas for that but I recommend the Smith Chart. It seems
complicated at first, but when you learned how to use it
it will help you solve all kinds of adaptation networks, stubs
etc, etc...

This is a link to a shareware Smithus Abacus:
http://oak.oakland.edu/pub/simtelnet/msdos/hamradio/smith12.zip


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:54:54 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 64
Distribution: world
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On 27 Aug 1996 06:08:56 GMT, Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>[e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse) wrote:
>>I was intrigued
>>by the phrase "exact impedance" in a previous thread.
>
>Dang Jesse, I don't remember saying that. If I did, I really meant
>exact enough for our purposes of impedance matching. It is only
>necessary to get close and then bring things to a match using the
>SWR meter and a variable cap.
>
Hi Cecil, having been blasted more than once by "Kurt" for not
"dotting my "i's", I wasn't trying to make you do so. Your 8/23/96
thread  was interesting to me. I thought maybe you had a more accurate
way to measure impedance.  I agree, you have a excellent and
inexpensive way to get "ballpark" impedance information on a balanced
antenna system.
>>
>I calibrated the Ladder-Lizard into a 300 ohm dummy load and made
>a chart of the results. I calculated the power into the dummy load
>as (V*V)/300. I forget the average power equation, but it can
>be calculated knowing Imax, Imin, and Z0.
>
>>Dosn't the Lizzard's impedance change as soon as you bring
>>it near or clamp it to the transmission line?
>
>It is a simple 1N34A plus cap circuit. Once the cap is charged, a
>really neglible amount of power is taken from the line since the
>diode is back-biased most of the time. The cap is isolated from the
>voltmeter by a couple of 1k resistors into another cap.

I'm still having trouble with the repeat accuracy of the metering
system.  You are calibrating a 300 ohm  SERIES line section terminated
into a 300 ohm load using a 1N34 diode detector. When you short the
ends of the "Lizzard" (line section) and mutually couple it to a
transmission line you not only change the impedance of the "Lizzard"
but cause a change in impedance and velocity in the transmission line
where it is mutually coupled to the "Lizzard".  The calibration of the
"Lizzard" is no longer valid (it still is a good indicator for max/min
voltage).


>
>>If it's not too much trouble would you please tell me how to
>>construct a "Ladder Lizzard",
>
>I did it with 300 ohm ladder-line. Cut a 6in to 1ft piece of ladder-
>line and short both ends. Cut the center of one wire. Solder the
>anode of a 1N34A to one side and solder a 0.1pf cap to the other.
>Solder the cathode of the diode to the other cap lead. Solder one
>end of two 1k resistors to each side of the cap. Solder another cap
>to the other two ends of the resistors. Connect a voltmeter across
>the second cap. Add 0.25v to every reading to account for the diode
>drop. Glue a non-conductive spacer between the two conductors for
>alignment purposes. Alignment is extremely important for consistant
>results.

>I'm going to construct your "Lizzard".  I will try using a ligh bulb instead
of the metering system for simplicity.  I think your lizzard  idea
coupled with the Smith chart is a nice and simple way to learn more
about balanced antenna systems.
Respectfully, Jesse, W6KKT



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:09 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ferrite Sandwich
Date: 24 Aug 96 06:28:07 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


I've been curious about a special case ferrite choke for feeding a
dipole.  If you peel back the coax cover, you can fold the shield back
upon itself.

If the shield is loose enough to contain a ferrite bead choke between
the inner and outer shield, would it still function as a choke if the
end of the shield is soldered back to itself on the lower side of the
choke?

This makes a sandwich of the choke balun.  It is not directly exposed to
either the inside shield currents, or to the skin effect currents.
(common mode)  Both currents still have an electrical path, but will the
inductance be felt, and choke off the outer shield current?

I realize that this is probably too simple a concept for professionals,
but it has me baffled.  The next time I rig up a dipole, I may try it.


Tom Stone
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:10 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx07-53
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ferrite Sandwich
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 16:37:01 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4vnb13$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx07-53.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>I've been curious about a special case ferrite choke for feeding a
>dipole.  If you peel back the coax cover, you can fold the shield back
>upon itself.
>
>If the shield is loose enough to contain a ferrite bead choke between
>the inner and outer shield, would it still function as a choke if the
>end of the shield is soldered back to itself on the lower side of the
>choke?
>
>This makes a sandwich of the choke balun.  It is not directly exposed to
>either the inside shield currents, or to the skin effect currents.
>(common mode)  Both currents still have an electrical path, but will the
>inductance be felt, and choke off the outer shield current?
>
>I realize that this is probably too simple a concept for professionals,
>but it has me baffled.  The next time I rig up a dipole, I may try it.

The choke won't work. It will be shielded from the currents, which will
flow along the outside of the shield and around the choke. A choke affects
only currents which flow through it.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:10 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: flagpole verticals
Date: 25 Aug 1996 18:43:45 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vq6t1$[e-mail]>
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I'm helping a new ham put up a stelth flagpole antenna
and realized I didn't know the answer to his question.
Can a flagpole simply be set in concrete with a proper
number of radials attached to the base and a gamma
match be used to feed it? Mechanically, that's a lot
better than having to insulate the pole from the ground
and the radials.

thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:13 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.winterlan.com!frii.com!usenet
From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: flagpole verticals
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:03:05 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 36
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References: <4vq6t1$[e-mail]>
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Cecil Moore wrote:
>
> I'm helping a new ham put up a stelth flagpole antenna
> and realized I didn't know the answer to his question.
> Can a flagpole simply be set in concrete with a proper
> number of radials attached to the base and a gamma
> match be used to feed it? Mechanically, that's a lot
> better than having to insulate the pole from the ground
> and the radials.
>
> thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Cecil,

An electronics engineer and Ham friend of mine told me a few years ago
that cement at HF is a reasonably good insulator. I assume he meant after
it was well cured. Still, to ease my mind, I would try to insulate the
vertical. It would be easier to plan the installation in advance than to
find later that the cement was not as good as I was told.

If it is the type of flagpole that has a square or round base with
several mounting holes in it, a thick sheet of a good plastic
(polyethylene or Delrin) could be put under the base. I would then make
some sleeve type washers to go between the ID of the mounting holes and
the mounting bolts. This means the bolts used must be smaller diameter
than would normally be used or bore out the mounting holes.

Another consideration is how he intends to adjust the stub feed once the
pole is erected. It might be well to put the pole on a base that has a
hinge, so the whole thing can be let down for service. If it is decided
to insulate the base, it could be done between the base and the hinge
plate or at the hinge plate to the cement.

Regards,
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:14 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.winterlan.com!frii.com!usenet
From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: flagpole verticals
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:35:06 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 59
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References: <4vq6t1$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Avatar wrote:
>
> Cecil Moore wrote:
> >
> > I'm helping a new ham put up a stelth flagpole antenna
> > and realized I didn't know the answer to his question.
> > Can a flagpole simply be set in concrete with a proper
> > number of radials attached to the base and a gamma
> > match be used to feed it? Mechanically, that's a lot
> > better than having to insulate the pole from the ground
> > and the radials.
> >
> > thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC
>
> Cecil,
>
> An electronics engineer and Ham friend of mine told me a few years ago
> that cement at HF is a reasonably good insulator. I assume he meant after
> it was well cured. Still, to ease my mind, I would try to insulate the
> vertical. It would be easier to plan the installation in advance than to
> find later that the cement was not as good as I was told.
>
> If it is the type of flagpole that has a square or round base with
> several mounting holes in it, a thick sheet of a good plastic
> (polyethylene or Delrin) could be put under the base. I would then make
> some sleeve type washers to go between the ID of the mounting holes and
> the mounting bolts. This means the bolts used must be smaller diameter
> than would normally be used or bore out the mounting holes.
>
> Another consideration is how he intends to adjust the stub feed once the
> pole is erected. It might be well to put the pole on a base that has a
> hinge, so the whole thing can be let down for service. If it is decided
> to insulate the base, it could be done between the base and the hinge
> plate or at the hinge plate to the cement.
>
> Regards,
> W0MAY

A few more points came to mind after I sent the above reply, which I
anticipate you already have considered.

If the pole is going to be stub fed, why insulate the pole from ground?

If the pole is going to use stub feed, then it is highly likely that a
separate stub will be needed for each band. And I don't know how well a
stub will work with a non-resonant radiator. Maybe the intent is to
duplicate the Hygain Hytower approach.

The advantage to having an insulated pole is that the base Z can be
matched on different bands with matching networks or a remote tuner. In
such a case, some kind of DC path is needed to drain away static charges
or lightening strikes.

If the pole is exposed to human contact, there is the possibility for RF
burns and a possible lawsuit.

Best wishes,
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Wes Stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: flagpole verticals
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:28:26 LOCAL
Organization: StarNet
Lines: 27
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References: <4vq6t1$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vq6t1$[e-mail]> Cecil Moore <w6rca@w
orldnet.att.net> writes:
>From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
>Subject: flagpole verticals
>Date: 25 Aug 1996 18:43:45 GMT

>I'm helping a new ham put up a stelth flagpole antenna
>and realized I didn't know the answer to his question.
>Can a flagpole simply be set in concrete with a proper
>number of radials attached to the base and a gamma
>match be used to feed it? Mechanically, that's a lot
>better than having to insulate the pole from the ground
>and the radials.

>thanks and 73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

Cecil:

It will certainly work fine on at least one band.  I've seem multiple gammas
used for multiple bands, but I would recommend some analysis of that
situation. I believe some broadcast stations use slant-wire feed even when
multiple transmitters are using a common tower, so I guess anything's
possible:)

73, Wes -- N7WS





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:17 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.abs.net!news.scn.org!scn.org!bb840
From: [e-mail] (James Aeschliman)
Subject: Re: Ground Rods and Rock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (James Aeschliman)
Organization: Seattle Community Network
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:39:32 GMT
Lines: 29


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Gary Coffman) says:

>
>Depth of the ground rod is not important (as long as it gets below
>the frost line). What you need is contact area. Instead of driving
>rods, in your case, you'll be better off burying radials. This does
>two things for you. First it gives a large capacitance to Earth.
>That's wonderful for RF since it doesn't need a DC path anyway.
>Second, you expose a lot of soil area to the DC potential of your
>grounding system. That's good too since sheet conductivity is how
>you get a low DC resistance connection to Earth.
>
>Gary

Forgive my ignorance, but I wish I'd known this 20 years ago.  I live in
the Seattle area on what was left after the glacer from the last ice age
receded.  Nothing but a mixture or rocks and dirt.  You can't dig a hole
3 feet deep here without a pick.  I probably spent 4 or 5 hours driving
an 8 foot ground rod into this ground.  In any case, the temperatures are
so mild here that you only need to go down a foot or so to be well below
the frost line.  You can bet that the next time I have to work on an earth
ground, that I'll do things differently, which may be soon.  When I
bought a new Radio Handbook recently, I discovered that all earth grounds
should be bonded together.

--
Jim Aeschliman                      [e-mail]
Black Diamond, Washington           KD7MK


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (derek hutter)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Grounding
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:57:16 GMT
Organization: Pacifier Internet Server [phone]
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4vo4ss$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip62.van2.pacifier.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2


>
>        There are many additional things to do and keep in mind when
>constructing an effective ground system.  While we in the PNW live in
one of
>the most benign regions for lightning, there are several reasons to have
a
>good one.  Since there are whole books written on the topic, I won't
attempt
>to cover it here.  I have written a paper on 'grounding for amateurs'
and
>will send you a copy if you're interested.  Send me your postal address.
>
>     BTW, laying a ground rod horizontally in a trench 36 inches deep
will
>give the same benefit and resistivity as the same rod driven vertically.

>
>73 and good luck,  Steve  K7LXC
>
>   TOWER TECH -- professional tower supplies and services for amateurs


Suggest you read the National Electric Code articles 250
(grounding), article 820C (amatuer radio stations) and the WA. Addendum
to the NEC before taking any advice given here.

Derek de KJ7HB

OR. and WA. unlimited journeyman.




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:19 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.ios.com!usenet
From: "Donald P. Davis Jr." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Grounding of rig and Antenna in Mobile
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:52:35 -0400
Organization: N.Y.U. Medical Center
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-8.ts-5.nyc.idt.net
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)

I've installed my IC-706 in my 1991 Chevy Astro fan using the Diamond
MV-3A antenna mounted on a truck lip mount on the rear door.  My
question is two-fold.  Do I need to ground the antenna and with what
would I do this with and how?  Also do I need to ground the rig as if
it's a base station.  Grounding the rig is easy since It's inside the
vehicle and I can run a ground strap from the ground nut on the rig and
the AT-180 tuner to a boot under my seat.  But the antenna is another
story since I was use to using mag mounts for VHF/UHF and this is now
monut off the back door using the lip mount.

Any suggestions?


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:20 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: [e-mail] (James Van Houten)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.scanner.rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Ham Radio Discussion Group
Date: 23 Aug 1996 10:47:04 GMT
Organization: * * * M Y S E L F * * *
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vk278$[e-mail]>
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Hello All,

Check out the ham radio are at http://www.coronetsec.com/hamradio.

Hope to see you there...

de KA3TTU

Jim



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (Tachyon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: helical filters
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:10:04 GMT
Organization: Speed > 669.6E+06 MPH
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4vhiuh$[e-mail]>
References: <4vg5uv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:


>TEST ....message to YOU bounced from another service.

Sorry, share the answer here so everyone can be as knowledgable as
you, please do not try to email me it won't work, I don't use real
e-mail because there are people (believe it or not) that take all
posts and strip to get a person's e-mail then sell the list to
corporations. no thanks don't have time to read junk e-mail.
Tachyon  { ; ^ )





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:21 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.PBI.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: helical filters
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:05:25 -0800
Organization: A customer of Pacific Bell Internet Services
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vg5uv$[e-mail]>
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Tachyon wrote:
>
> Anybody ever make helical filters?
> need construction tips not theory, I got design done.
> what type of container to use, material, (want to make my own not buy
> from a filter co.)
> ctr freq=141mhz, bw=5mhz
>
> thanks in advance.

TEST ....message to YOU bounced from another service.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:22 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: helical filters
Date: 22 Aug 1996 10:10:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4vhbmn$[e-mail]>
References: <4vg5uv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca11-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 22  3:10:31 AM PDT 1996

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>Tachyon wrote:
>>
>> Anybody ever make helical filters?
>> need construction tips not theory, I got design done.
>> what type of container to use, material, (want to make my own not
buy
>> from a filter co.)
>> ctr freq=141mhz, bw=5mhz
>>
>> thanks in advance.
>
>TEST ....message to YOU bounced from another service.

    Mine did too!  Tacky is really tackie, I figure.  Best to
ignore his pleas for impractical help. He may not know the difference
between "theory" and practice. <g>





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:23 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!crawford.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.inet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!nntp2.rmci.net!novia!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [e-mail] (Tachyon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: helical filters
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:22:22 GMT
Organization: Speed > 669.6E+06 MPH
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vg5uv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 113.cambridge-2.ma.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Anybody ever make helical filters?
need construction tips not theory, I got design done.
what type of container to use, material, (want to make my own not buy
from a filter co.)
ctr freq=141mhz, bw=5mhz

thanks in advance.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:24 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!murphy2.servtech.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Robert G. Strickland)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help - Fixing HiFi interference
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:30:11 GMT
Organization: ServiceTech, Inc.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vpo1q$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: regcon.syr.servtech.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

A neighbor is picking up my cw in his hifi, and I'd like to help fix
it. What's the general experience with this form of rfi? Is it usually
in the speaker hookup wires or in the electronics? If in the wires,
should chokes/filters be placed at the speakers or at the set? If in
the set, what's the best approach? I have a catalog from Radio Works
which advertises rfi filters for hifi's. Anyone have any experience
with these or similar items? Much thanks for comments.
...Robert





From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:25 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.starlink.com!usenet
From: Harvey Tetmeyer <harveyt>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF Mobile Antenna?
Date: 19 Aug 1996 17:25:00 GMT
Organization: Star Link Internet Services
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4va81c$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4utvst$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-5.starlink.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:


>WB6HQK and myself , this winter are planning to hang a 61' wire from a
>balloon attached to the vehicle. We will then measure the base
>impedance, deduct hardware loss and (hopefully) determine the ground
>loss resistance.  We will then replace the .25wl wire with Hustler,
>Bugcatcher etc; measure their respective base impedances and then
>calculate the "Q".


This sounds very interesting. I would be interested in how you
define and calculate Q in this situation. I hope you will publish
the data and results.


>"Fortex" has a "Big Daddy" all stainless (including coil)  mobile
>antenna system.  I will be testing and comparing it with the "Hustler"
>and "Bugcatcher" from a common mobile platform.


I hope you will also include a Hamstick, a screwdriver and an SGS
QMS system in your comparisons. The differences should be quite
dramatic. This will be the "mother of all tests."

What is the time and location of the test?

Harvey, K5LJM










From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:26 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I WOULD LIKE TO BE A MANAGER
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 22:36:00 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4vt955$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] wrote:

>My name is Tony Naglieri my call is N1NYD qth Ware, Ma. home
>telephone is 413-967-7426.  I would like to help out some ham
>by beening a manager.

I used to have a manager who deserved to be beened, but I quit.
Sorry.  ;)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:27 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!news.ccs.queensu.ca!masonjl
From: [e-mail] (JimMason)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Insurance and lightning protection
Date: 22 Aug 1996 05:19:18 GMT
Organization: Queen's University
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vgqkm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: toll1-slip134.tele.queensu.ca
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

Hi,

I'd be interested to know what requirements concerning grounding and
lightning protection are included in any insurance policy you might have on
your ham equipment. I'm particularly interested in club station insurance
policies.

Please reply by e-mail to [e-mail]

Thanks very much.

Jim Mason


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:28 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.zoomnet.net!newsfeed.one.net!news.achilles.net!n4ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!nntp0.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [e-mail](Anthony Severdia)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Jamming a signal?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 10:06:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vhbfe$[e-mail]>
References: <4vh5de$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca11-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 22  5:06:38 AM CDT 1996

In <4vh5de$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (fallacy)
writes:
>
>How would someone go about jamming a radio signal? Just in a small
>area. Can a radio be modified to do this and if so, how? Please
respond
>by e-mail. Thanks.
>

    WHY?  Are you another of the all too many malcontentents ready
to whip civil society into place?  Sorry, no advice from here!


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:29 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.suba.com!qni.com!gwatts
From: Gary Watts <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Jamming a signal?
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:08:59 -0500
Organization: Suba Communications
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vh5de$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: qni.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To: fallacy <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <4vh5de$[e-mail]>

Lets forward your message on to the FCC I'm sure they
will have some good advice for you

On 22 Aug 1996, fallacy wrote:

> How would someone go about jamming a radio signal? Just in a small
> area. Can a radio be modified to do this and if so, how? Please respond
> by e-mail. Thanks.
>
>
>



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:30 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!szdc!news
From: [e-mail] (Alex Evonosky)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Jamming a signal?
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 00:51:57 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4vivp9$[e-mail]>
References: <4vh5de$[e-mail]> <4vhbfe$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail](Anthony Severdia) wrote:

>In <4vh5de$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (fallacy)
>writes:
>>
>>How would someone go about jamming a radio signal? Just in a small
>>area. Can a radio be modified to do this and if so, how? Please
>respond
>>by e-mail. Thanks.
>>

>    WHY?  Are you another of the all too many malcontentents ready
>to whip civil society into place?  Sorry, no advice from here!

same here!! no advice on this subject!  This is not amateur radio!




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:31 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [e-mail] (fallacy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Jamming a signal?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 08:23:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4vh5de$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad05-108.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

How would someone go about jamming a radio signal? Just in a small
area. Can a radio be modified to do this and if so, how? Please respond
by e-mail. Thanks.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:32 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.winterlan.com!frii.com!usenet
From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Longwire balun question
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:59:40 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vmt11$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftc-9.ppp.frii.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)

Scott Ryan wrote:
>
> Does anyone make an inexpensive balun for longwire to coax lead-in.  The
> "MLB" type balun seems over-priced at $60.00 bucks

You need to clarify what you mean by a long wire and how you intend to
feed it. If you are referring to an end fed long wire (such as a Zepp), a
balun is not an appropriate device unless you are operating on a single
freguency and the antenna & feedline are cut to present the proper Z to
the balun.

If the antenna is a Zepp or a non-resonant dipole, you need a balanced
antenna tuner.

Regards,
W0MAY




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:33 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.bridge.net!ppp-mia4-132.bridge.net!user
From: [e-mail] (Douglas Alexander)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.pirate,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy
Subject: Looking for a mailorder outfit to purchase a handheld scanner
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:23:56 -0400
Organization: Alexander Corporation
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vg791$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-mia4-132.bridge.net
Xref: news2.epix.net alt.radio.scanner:32853 rec.radio.scanner:55546 alt.radio.pirate:16160 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23822 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106147 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16773 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31893 rec.radio.amateur.policy:36043

Looking for a good mailorder firm to purchase a handheld scanner from:

I am interested in the following units:


    ICOM R1
    AOR 8000

Please email feedback to [e-mail]

--
[e-mail]
--

Douglas Alexander
Florida Power & Light
Turkey Point Nuclear Plant
Nuclear Operations Department

--
Pardon me,
I am from the 24th century,
and I'm heading back as soon as
Doc Brown fixes the Flux Capacitor!


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:34 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!howland.erols.net!agate!fsc.fujitsu.com!bdt.com!news.tdl.com!usenet
From: Bill Fawns <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Low noise antenna in QST
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 21:44:48 -0700
Organization: The Diamond Lane
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tdl-dyn54.tdl.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I)

Jorge Llacer wrote:
>
> Several months ago there was an article in the QST magazine about HF
> antennas for use in noisy environments.  If I remember right it separated
> vertically polarized noise from the more horizontally polarized waves that
> come refracted from the ionosphere.  Because of a house move, I had to
> through away most of my collection of QST's and it turns up that my new
> house is in a rather noisy environment, I do not know very well the origin
> of the noise, but it appears strongly in several regions of the SW
> spectrum. Particularly bad over the 40 meter band, where I will be doing
> most of my work as soon as I pass my first code exam.
>
> Is there anyone that can tell me which issue of QST contained that article
> and, could that person perhaps Xerox it and send it to me?  I will, of
> course, pay for the expenses.  Or may be I can get a back issue from the
> ARRL, I do not know.  Thank you very much.
>
> Jorge Llacer
> Los Gatos, CA
> [e-mail]:

The September 1995 issue of QST had two articles on low noise HF
antennas.  I was thinking of building one.  Let me know how it works if
you build one.

Good luck!

73 Bill de KE6HEZ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:36 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Low noise antenna in QST
Date: 25 Aug 1996 07:07:31 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vovlv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Jorge Llacer) writes:

>
>Thanks, Bill.  I will look for the article, it seems like an interesting
>project, although, of course, it would be better not to have to do all
>that work...
>
>Jorge
>
>

It may work to some extent in limited situations, but it lacks a
continiously variable phase shift network that works.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:38 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.larc.nasa.gov!usenet
From: "Joseph M. Zawodny" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Measuring 1/4 Wavelength in Coax
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:56:42 -0400
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: arbd0.larc.nasa.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; U)

Thanks for reading this, I tried posting this originally to
r.r.a.homebrew but did not really get a reply of value.

         I know I am supposed to know all this, but before I start
cutting coax I need to be certain.  I am building a pair of phasing
lines / impedance transformers to stack a pair of 70cm yagis.  I
need each line to be 5.25 wavelengths (wl) in 75 Ohm coax so I can
get the correct spacing between yagis and also transform the 50 Ohm
antenna impedance to 100 Ohms at the "T" where they'll attach to
the 50 Ohm feedline.  My question is this: What is the best way to
assure that I am getting exactly an odd integer multiple of quarter
wavelengths in my 5.25 wl lines?  If the Mfgr's velocity factor (0.78)
is off by 5% it adds up to a 1/4 wl error over 5.25 wl of line so,
I need a way to measure the proper functioning of the 1/4 wl (actually
21/4 wl in my case) transformer.  My original thought is to solder a
100 Ohm resistor across one end of the 75 Ohm coax and measure the
SWR at the other end at the frequency of interest (435 MHz).  If I was
dealing with just a 1/4 wl length of coax I could just trim it to
resonance at 435MHz, but I do not believe this will work with 5.25 wl
lengths.

Any thoughts, comments, or experiences are welcomed.

--
Work: Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny                     Play: Joe Zawodny
      NASA Langley Research Center                    [e-mail]
      E-mail: [e-mail]               [e-mail]
      [phone]  [phone] FAX


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:39 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Merv Stump <[e-mail]@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Measuring 1/4 Wavelength in Coax
Date: 22 Aug 1996 17:14:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4vi4hi$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 243.middletown-59.va.dial-access.att.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22ATT (Windows; U; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

Joe, I have measured coax in the following way:

Place a coax T connector on your dummy load.  Place an SWR meter on one
side of the connector and run your RF through the meter to the dummy load.
On the other side of the coax attach your approximate quarterwave (or odd
multiple of a quarter wave of coax) and short the far end just like a
matching stub.

Now the frequency at which you still get a 1/1 SWR (that is the frequency
at which your matching stub is having no effect) is the frequency for
which you have a quarterwave length of coax.

Having said all this, I must add that I've never found it to deviate from
the manufacturer's spec's by any appreciable amount.

By the way, I know at least one guy who sells measured/matched coax(at
least for HF frequencies) and that is KF4HK who owns ComTek.

Good luck and regards, Merv



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:40 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx06-21
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Measuring 1/4 Wavelength in Coax
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 19:36:24 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4vicpf$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vi4hi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx06-21.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <4vi4hi$[e-mail]>,
   Merv Stump <[e-mail]@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Joe, I have measured coax in the following way:
>
>Place a coax T connector on your dummy load.  Place an SWR meter on one
>side of the connector and run your RF through the meter to the dummy load.
>On the other side of the coax attach your approximate quarterwave (or odd
>multiple of a quarter wave of coax) and short the far end just like a
>matching stub.
>
>Now the frequency at which you still get a 1/1 SWR (that is the frequency
>at which your matching stub is having no effect) is the frequency for
>which you have a quarterwave length of coax.
>
>Having said all this, I must add that I've never found it to deviate from
>the manufacturer's spec's by any appreciable amount.

>. . .

Solid polyethylene and PTFE (Teflon) don't seem to vary much. But I've
found significant variations with foamed polyethylene. It varies not only
from manufacturer to manufacturer, but from lot to lot.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:41 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news
From: Mark Brown <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Measuring 1/4 Wavelength in Coax
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:51:54 -0700
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vi4hi$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: comet-4.starpoint.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)

Joseph M. Zawodny wrote:
>
> Merv Stump wrote:
> >
> > Place a coax T connector on your dummy load.  Place an SWR meter on one
> > side of the connector and run your RF through the meter to the dummy load.
> > On the other side of the coax attach your approximate quarterwave (or odd
> > multiple of a quarter wave of coax) and short the far end just like a
> > matching stub.
> >
> > Now the frequency at which you still get a 1/1 SWR (that is the frequency
> > at which your matching stub is having no effect) is the frequency for
> > which you have a quarterwave length of coax.
>
> Thanks to those that replied.  I did try it this way last night and it
> seemed to work alright although my dummy load is not the best at 432MHz.
> I took advantage of the fact that 21/4 wl at 432MHz is 7/4 wl at 144MHz
> and was able to double check my measurements on a band where my dummy
> load performs better.  I also saw the reversal in SWR as I opened
> un-shorted the far end of the coax (boy, those AEA Graphical SWR analysers
> are nice for these sorts of things).  So I am reasonably certain that all
> went well.
>
>   I had one gentleman tell me that I should worry about the excessive
> losses in the matching section due to the high SWR, but the SWR in the 75
> ohm section should only be around 1.33 to 1.50  -  any thoughts or
> comments?
>
>         Thanks again,
> --
> Work: Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny                     Play: Joe Zawodny
>       NASA Langley Research Center                    [e-mail]
>       E-mail: [e-mail]               [e-mail]
>       [phone]  [phone] FAXThe best way to feed 2 antennas from
 50 ohm coax is to build a quarter
wavelength power divider out of 1" square aluminum tubing with a brass or
copper center conductor. I have built several & have 1.1 to 1 matches
through them on 2 & 432. They let you use 50 ohm cable to the antenna &
are not very large at 432 (approx. 6" long)
    Mark


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!usenet
From: "Joseph M. Zawodny" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Measuring 1/4 Wavelength in Coax
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:52:55 -0400
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vi4hi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: arbd0.larc.nasa.gov
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (WinNT; U)

Merv Stump wrote:
>
> Place a coax T connector on your dummy load.  Place an SWR meter on one
> side of the connector and run your RF through the meter to the dummy load.
> On the other side of the coax attach your approximate quarterwave (or odd
> multiple of a quarter wave of coax) and short the far end just like a
> matching stub.
>
> Now the frequency at which you still get a 1/1 SWR (that is the frequency
> at which your matching stub is having no effect) is the frequency for
> which you have a quarterwave length of coax.

Thanks to those that replied.  I did try it this way last night and it
seemed to work alright although my dummy load is not the best at 432MHz.
I took advantage of the fact that 21/4 wl at 432MHz is 7/4 wl at 144MHz
and was able to double check my measurements on a band where my dummy
load performs better.  I also saw the reversal in SWR as I opened
un-shorted the far end of the coax (boy, those AEA Graphical SWR analysers
are nice for these sorts of things).  So I am reasonably certain that all
went well.

  I had one gentleman tell me that I should worry about the excessive
losses in the matching section due to the high SWR, but the SWR in the 75
ohm section should only be around 1.33 to 1.50  -  any thoughts or
comments?

        Thanks again,
--
Work: Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny                     Play: Joe Zawodny
      NASA Langley Research Center                    [e-mail]
      E-mail: [e-mail]               [e-mail]
      [phone]  [phone] FAX


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:45 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Measuring 1/4 Wavelength in Coax
Date: 27 Aug 1996 13:18:39 GMT
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4vusjf$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vi4hi$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip129-37-205-98.in.us.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <[e-mail]>, Mark Brown <[e-mail]> writes:
>Joseph M. Zawodny wrote:
>>
>> Merv Stump wrote:
>> >
>> > Place a coax T connector on your dummy load.  Place an SWR meter on one
>> > side of the connector and run your RF through the meter to the dummy load
.
>> > On the other side of the coax attach your approximate quarterwave (or odd
>> > multiple of a quarter wave of coax) and short the far end just like a
>> > matching stub.
>> >
>> > Now the frequency at which you still get a 1/1 SWR (that is the frequency
>> > at which your matching stub is having no effect) is the frequency for
>> > which you have a quarterwave length of coax.
>>
>> Thanks to those that replied.  I did try it this way last night and it
>> seemed to work alright although my dummy load is not the best at 432MHz.
>> I took advantage of the fact that 21/4 wl at 432MHz is 7/4 wl at 144MHz
>> and was able to double check my measurements on a band where my dummy
>> load performs better.  I also saw the reversal in SWR as I opened
>> un-shorted the far end of the coax (boy, those AEA Graphical SWR analysers
>> are nice for these sorts of things).  So I am reasonably certain that all
>> went well.
>>
>>   I had one gentleman tell me that I should worry about the excessive
>> losses in the matching section due to the high SWR, but the SWR in the 75
>> ohm section should only be around 1.33 to 1.50  -  any thoughts or
>> comments?
>>
>>         Thanks again,
>> --
>> Work: Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny                     Play: Joe Zawodny
>>       NASA Langley Research Center                    [e-mail]
>>       E-mail: [e-mail]               [e-mail]
>>       [phone]  [phone] FAXThe best way to feed 2 antennas fro
m 50 ohm coax is to build a quarter
>wavelength power divider out of 1" square aluminum tubing with a brass or
>copper center conductor. I have built several & have 1.1 to 1 matches
>through them on 2 & 432. They let you use 50 ohm cable to the antenna &
>are not very large at 432 (approx. 6" long)
>    Mark

 Joe,

  I have used a 'pin' in the coax on the far end when making a 1/4 wave stub.
 When you get the match, replace the pin with a solid wire soldered connection
.
 Also, if you want to play with your SWR question, get a hold of TEE.ZIP or
 TEEREV.ZIP off of the June '96 QRZ CD-ROM or download it from the ARRL
 BBS. It's a simple Transmission Efficiency Estimator, for calculating Loss, S
WR,
 EIRP, etc.
                                                           Jim  WD9AHF



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:45 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tijc02!eri316
From: [e-mail] (Ed Ingraham         )
Subject: Re: Mobile suggestions wanted
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Siemens Industrial Automation, Johnson City TN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 96 17:51:22 GMT
Lines: 18

From article <[e-mail]>, by Dave <[e-mail]>:
> I have a new HS-1000 screwdriver antenna and a new motorhome.  MH is all
> fiber glass with a steel cage (Fleetwood Bounder 30E).  Looking for
> antenna mounting suggestions.  75 and 40 are the usual bands of
> operation. A bumper or hitch mount would put nearly the whole antenna
> below the roof.  The roof ladder is floating above ground but could
> provide a low z ground at the bottom and a short ground lead at the top
> to the steel cage.  Do not want to put any holes in roof if possible
> (100+ inches of rain a year here).  Thanks for any advise you have to
> offer.
>
> 73s
>
> Dave Lewis KL7ETZ

The HS brochure shows an HS-1000 mounted on top of a pipe which is in turn
mounted onto the bumper of a motorhome. Looks nice to me.
73, Ed


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:46 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!pineapp
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Curry)
Subject: Re: Mobile with ATU?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom-Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:26:44 GMT
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]

William R. Moore ([e-mail]) wrote:

  YOu would be better with one DK-3 (screwdriver) antenna, This way
you will have 10-80 meters available. Plus you will noticed
about 6db gain over a Hustler.

: I've decided to go HF mobile with an antenna tuner (MFJ model).  I'm
: currently using a 20m Hamstick and it tunes up well on 40-10 with the
: tuner.  My question is whether I'd get any better results on all these
: bands if I used a different single-band antenna? Say a 40m Hamstick.  Or
: would I be better off with just a straight 8 foot whip (no loading
: coils)?

: Thanks.

: Randy, KS4L
--
.----------------------------------------------+--------------------------.
| INTERNET: [e-mail]     (DC436)     | Daniel Curry             |
| AMPRNET : [e-mail]  [44.4.20.144] | WB6STW                   |
| AX.25   : wb6stw@n0ary.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM    | DoD # 1450   SOHC4 # 136 |
'----------------------------------------------+--------------------------'


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:47 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.stealth.net!solace!mn6.swip.net!mn5.swip.net!news
From: Maude Schyffert <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Multiple Dipoles
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:55:41 -0700
Organization: -
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup96-7-1.swipnet.se
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To: Chuck Simpfendorfer <[e-mail]>

Chuck Simpfendorfer wrote:
>
> With an existing 40 meter inverted vee with balun,  is it more efficent
> just place a 20 meter dipole 2 feet under the existing one with a
> seperate coax feed line, or is better to put the two 20 meter legs
> dirctly to the present balun?

Put it on the same feed-point.

I have used a 4-line flat cable cut for 80,40,20 and 15 on the same
feed-point. You just cut the different lines to the desired length.

SM0BKZ


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:48 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!clio.trends.ca!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.mnsinc.com!usenet
From: KI4RO John <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need temporary HF mobile ant. recommendations
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:48:19 -0700
Organization: Monumental Network Systems
Lines: 27
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vb7qv$[e-mail]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: Will Roberts <[e-mail]>

Will Roberts wrote:
>
> I need a temporary antenna to mount for a short time on a rental cars.
> Must cover 20 and 40m, although would be nice to cover other bands too.
> Does anyone make a decent antenna that uses a magnetic or other type
> easy on/off mount?
>
> I'd appreciate any suggestions. I don't check this group often, so
> please copy to my email address if you post here...
>
> Thanks /73
>
> Will AA4NCHi Will
     Use hamsticks and the mag mount they advertise in QST.  The
tri-magnetic mount is a bit pricey, but from first hand experience, works
very very well.  The antennae break down very easily with a small
screwdriver.  Once you get them resonant, simply mark the whip with some
heat shrink or some electrical tape so you don't have to resonate it
again each time you re-assemble it.

Contact:
Lakeview Company   864.226.6990
3629-9a Whitehall Rd
Anderson SC 29624

73 and happy mobiling!
John KI4RO


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:49 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!netcom.com!dgf
From: [e-mail] (David Feldman)
Subject: NMO mount vertical for 15, 17 or 20M?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization? Me?
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:26:33 GMT
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]

Has anyone seen a NMO mount vertical for any of these bands? I would
presume some kind of base or center loaded gizmo, with perhaps a matching
element in the base.

Any advice appreciated!

73 Dave WB0GAZ [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!netaxs.com!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx06-21
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Insulators
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 19:42:47 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vid5d$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx06-21.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Jesse Touhey (W6KKT)) wrote:
>I have found a very good  and inexpensive  insulator for
>open wire transmission line is, plastic coat hangers.  Cut them
>into the lengths needed.  They are light, do not heat in the microwave
>and very inexpensive.
>73, Jesse, W6KKT

How are they for UV resistance? Most plastics turn brittle pretty quickly
due to exposure to sunlight, even here in rainy Oregon.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:51 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!fozzie.mercury.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 05:35:38 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4vbj1u$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Fair radio has some 2 inch ceramic ones which are newly made.
>I think they are about $.25 each or some such.  Ceramic ones
>make the line kind of heavy. You might consider making them
>out of Lucite or Lexan. If they are about 4 inches spacing you
>probably will be able to get away with one every 3 feet or so.
>Drill a hole for the 14 AWG and then one next to it for #22.
>I am using enamel covered wire and will just twist a short length
>of 22 to hold the 14 in place and maybe a little coil dope lightly
>on the twist to keep it from moving.

Hi Chuck,

A guy on the air suggested something to me several months ago that
sounds a lot easier.  His spreaders were made from 1/2" PVC, cut
into 3-4" lengths.  He mounted each spreader on the conductors by
simply heating the wire with a propane torch and pressing the wire
into the PVC.  He claimed the line has already lasted through
several severe ice storms and lots of high wind.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:52 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!news
From: Steve Ickes <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:27:52 -0700
Organization: WB3HUZ/Baltimore
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vbj1u$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Chris Scott wrote:
>
> In article <4vbj1u$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(WB3U) writes:
> >    "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> wrote:

  >>>>stuff cut>>>>>>

>
> I had in mind probably #10 solid copper conductors...
>

   >>>>more cut<<<<<<

>
> Thanx...
>
> WB9NEQ
>
> --
> [e-mail]  Chief Engineer, Public Radio- Western KY U
>                      Telco: [phone]  Hm & Fax: [phone]
> ...just another insignificant VAX user.        \\\//
>                                                (o o)
> --------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------
--




Well, if ur going to use #10 solid, u will not need very many spacers.
At least on the vertical portion of the feedline, if you can keep tension
on it, you will probably only need spacers every 5-8 feet.  I've seen
installations that were spaced over ten feet.  So, the loss
characteristics of the spacers may not really be a big issue if you only
use a few.

S


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:53 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou.com!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Open Wire Line (getting some)?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vbq2t$[e-mail]> <4vd3tg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:08:40 GMT
Lines: 7

Try your local cermaic club or check for someone who teaches ceramics.
They should be able to make some nice spreaders for you. Since it is a
hobby for them, it may not cost you anything but materials.


--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:54 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!itnews.sc.intel.com!chnews!ornews.intel.com!news.jf.intel.com!jgarver
From: [e-mail] (Jim Garver)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Phasing 220 Mhz mobile antennas
Date: 21 Aug 1996 18:48:52 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4vflmk$[e-mail]>
References: <4v5m2g$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pdx804.intel.com

In article <4v5m2g$[e-mail]>,
Paul A. Cianciolo <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I was wondering if any one has phased 1/4 wave mobile antennas.  I
>have a large van with lots of ground plane.  I don't think I can go
>much higher than a quarter wave due to the parking garage I need to go
>into each day.  I have seen the graphs that  the ARRL antenna.  I just
>wanted too if anyone has practical experience.

You will probably get more gain in the favored direction by placing
one 1/4 vertical at the opposite end of roof from the desired direction.

A non-omni directional mobile antenna only makes sense if you drive on
straight highways most of the time and usually work simplex. (IMHO)

Many mobile antenna installations are not omni however, such as mine
mounted on the end of the quarter panel.  I get gain in the direction
I'm going.

Another possibility is an array of four verticals on the roof with a
switchable phasing network to steer the pattern.  Not worth it in
terms of performance however (IMHO).  Would be good for direction finding.

Or how about a Wullenweber mobile antenna farm?




--
[e-mail]          WA7LDV            I don't speak for Intel


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:55 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.corpcomm.net!news.gate.net!nntp.seflin.lib.fl.us!a043971t
From: [e-mail] (Joey Solomon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: R7000
Date: 23 Aug 1996 22:20:14 GMT
Organization: SEFLIN Free-Net - Broward
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4vlaqu$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Steve Weisbrod ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I have an R7000 on an 8ft mast on the ground in a woods of large Oak
: tress. The trees are within 10 - 20 ft of the antenna. It works great!!!

--
 /\/\/\/\
|       |
| () () |  DUH?
|   _\  |
|       |
|  \__/ |
\       /
 \_____/     73's and have a nice day :-)



Joey Solomon (The Expert Duffus)
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:56 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radial Question
Date: 24 Aug 1996 22:54:41 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 28
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vof9h$[e-mail]>
References: <4vn1if$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4vn1if$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dan Richardson) writes:

>
>My question is: Is there a way of calculating the effciency of a ╝
>wave monople when the antenna's height above ground and the number of
>radials are known?
>
>73- Danny, K6MHE
>
>

Probably not, Danny. The best way is to measure it.

Incidentally, if Orr's book claims the B, L, and E study shows 120 radials
1/4 wl radials are needed, that is incorrect.

The study actually showed a point of rapidly diminishing returns with ~60
radials for 1/4 wl, and about 100-110 at ~ .435 wl long, and that a ground
screen was totally unnecessary unless only a few short radials were used.

An accepted fact is this...the higher the system above ground, the less
radials are needed. But two radials are not enough at any height, unless
some form of feedline decoupling is used and you don't care about pattern
distortion..

I have copies of B, L and E's original papers for reference.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:57 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.winterlan.com!frii.com!usenet
From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radial Question
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:06:09 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vn1if$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftc-9.ppp.frii.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Dan Richardson wrote:
>
> In the book on vertical antennas by Orr & Cowan there appears a graph
> showing the number of redials required vs. antenna instalation height
> above ground for a ╝-wave monople. This graph shows the values of 120
> radials ant ground level dropping to 4 radials at  ╜ wavelenght
> height. However, I can find no reference on how the values (number of
> radials) were derived.
>
> I know the value of 120 radials comes from the work of Lewis & Brown
> (done prior to WW2).
>
> Additionally, in Brown's book (autobiography) whne discussing the
> ground plane antenna he states that the originally designed antenna
> had two radials. Two additional radials were added at the insistence
> of RCA's marketing people.
>
> My question is: Is there a way of calculating the effciency of a ╝
> wave monople when the antenna's height above ground and the number of
> radials are known?
>
> 73- Danny, K6MHE

This info doesn't answer your question, but it might be helpful to you
and others.

I read a study some years ago (don't recall source now) that resulted
from some experiments. In essence it was found that a large number of
radials shorter than 1/4 lambda was better than a few long radials. The
result proves that the current flow from the vertical decreases as
distance is increased from the base.

Regards,
W0MAY




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:58 1996
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From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radial Question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 18:22:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4vof9h$[e-mail]>
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WT> The study actually showed a point of rapidly diminishing returns wit
WT> radials for 1/4 wl, and about 100-110 at ~ .435 wl long, and that a
WT> screen was totally unnecessary unless only a few short radials were

The humorous part about the 120 radials, which the FCC
to my knowledge still requires of AM installations, is
that it came about because B.L. & E. ran out of wire at
that point!

It needs to be added that these three situations above
do not represent equivalent radiation efficiency.

WT> I have copies of B, L and E's original papers for reference.

An interesting sidelight on Brown's work is that his
1928 PHD thesis at U.of Wis. foreshadows the IRE paper
of 1937. His work involved a vertical with radials set
up on the frozen surface of Lake Mendota during a
Wisconsin winter. In this early work Brown built his own
vacuum tube voltmeter using a Type 24A (an early tetrode
with a heater voltage of 2.5v @ 1.75A).  Brown tells of
the task of trundling the batteries to run his equipment
out on the ice of Lake Mendota in the dead of winter.

He doesn't mention it, but fresh water ice with 50 feet
of water underneath doesn't sound like optimum ground
conditions! ;-)

 * RM 1.3 02583 *


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:03:59 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: webbte <[e-mail]>
Subject: Saturn Halo 6 meter mobile Antenna Users?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (webbte)
Organization: NCR Corporation
X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division]
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Lines: 15

Just as soon as my household goods magically appear at my new
doorstep, I plan on intalling my old, but never-used Saturn Halo
6 meter antenna on my 86 Country Squire wagon to mate with new 6
meter rig. Is anyone out there currently using one of the
puppies? Just wonder about installation locations, feeding, etc.
I've had this antenna since new purchase in 1963 but have lost
any instructions that might have come with it. 6 Meters:The
Magic Band (correct name escapes me) book, showed an old ad, so
I've got some idea. Have also seen photo's in CQ / QST from VHF
contests where they are used, but no specific details. Can anyone help?

thanks,
de Ted / W4NE (ex-AC4CS)
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:00 1996
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From: "C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: The high current part radiates?
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:31:20 -0500
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Can someone explain the often heard statement that "the high current
portion of the antenna does all the radiating". This kind of reminds me
of the unqualified statement that "the tuner tricks the transmitter".

Does an inverted V dipole put out a stronger signal than a "verted" V
given the same average height?

Does this come from the explanation that accelerating charges radiate?

Chuck, KE9UW



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:01 1996
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From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The high current part radiates?
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:10:19 GMT
Organization: InterAccess Networking
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"C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Can someone explain the often heard statement that "the high current
>portion of the antenna does all the radiating". This kind of reminds me
>of the unqualified statement that "the tuner tricks the transmitter".

Chuck,

I can take a shot at it.  Obviously when you are not transmitting
there is no (TX signal) current in the antenna and no signal is
radiated from the antenna.

When the transmitter is keyed, current loops and nodes appear on the
antenna.  The strength of the radiation from any point on the antenna
is in proportion to the current at that point.

Consider a half wave doublet (dipole) antenna.  There is no radiation
at the extreme ends of the antenna.  The current at the ends is zero
(at all times).  Since the current waveform repeats every full
wavelenth, and since the current in the antenna at the extreme ends
must be zero, the center of the antenna must be a current loop that
changes direction twice per cycle.

>Does an inverted V dipole put out a stronger signal than a "verted" V
>given the same average height?

Hmmm.  I can generalize by saying: 'Get those Amps in the air.'
Ordinarily, you would put the center of the antenna as high as
possibe.  However, if your antenna support is an appreciable part of a
wavelenth or more a 'verted V' might work better a some wave angles.

However, as a practical matter you would need two tall supports.  Over
all, with those two tall supports you could hang a doublet
horizontally between them and bend the (low current) ends down if the
supports were not a half wavelength appart.  That antenna (in general)
would be better than the 'V's.

Some people like inverted V antennas because the are more omni
directional than dipoles.

>Does this come from the explanation that accelerating charges radiate?

Since the current is highest at the loops and changes direction twice
during each cycle, the rate of change of current is highest at the
current loop.  The electromagnetic field at this point will be the
highest.

>Chuck, KE9UW

My experience has convinced me that the ability of the radio operator
at each end of the circuit makes a bigger difference than the antenna.
Operators are far more portable than most antennas.  A good antenna is
usually good enough, unless your hobby interest is antennas.


John Ely,  W0GN



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:02 1996
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From: [e-mail] (david l. thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Tri-bander info
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:39:14 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4vlb96$[e-mail]>
References: <4va714$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (John Stroppel) wrote:

>Are there any OM out there that remember a three element tri-band antenna
>that had loops on the end of the elements? This antenna would be about
>1960 to 1970 vintage. I am looking for the tune up info. Going to put this
>back up. The traps had a tuning slug ( made from alu. tubing) on the inside
>of each end of the trap. A screw held the tube in place after adjusted.

>Thanks   John  WA0VYZ

The old WRL (nee Hy-Gain) ThunderBirds used loops at the end of
elements for what they called static eliminators.  Most antenna
experts said they actually were for making the 20 meter el longer
electrically.

Some of the big Telrex beams also used loops at the element ends in
the late 50's.

We called these dust busters!

You need to find out who made the antenna and get a book.

Dave K4JRB



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:03 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ventenna (anyone ever used)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 15:06:31 GMT
Organization: Digital Internet Access Link, Inc. Springfield, MO 873-DIAL
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vpmrq$[e-mail]>
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I am thinking about getting a dual band ventenna.  (Slips over
existing vent pipe)  Has anyone ever used one of these and how did it
work.

Thanks.

KB╪QIR

P.S.  I wasn't specific enough on my first post  Sorry.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:04 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Vertical Antenna Grounding Q?s
Date: 24 Aug 96 14:09:25 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

My questions follow:

(1) Can I use AWG 10 gauge stranded auto hookup wire with insulation?
 Would I still need to use standoffs to keep the wire from touching the
house?

Dave --

   The wire sounds okay but solid copper wire is what is normally used.  The
standoffs, unless they offer another path to ground for a lightning strike,
are okay for mechanical stability.

(2) My books say to attach the ground in as "straight a path as possible".
 How bad is it to take corners?

   Just make big, lazy bends in the wire if you have to; just don't make
sharp 90 degree bends.

(3) What should happen if I can only get the ground rod down 6 or 7 feet?
 Can I cut the top and still clamp on with reasonable grounding? Should I not
cut the rod?

     A ten foot ground rod has a typical resistance of approximately 15 ohms;
a six foot rod has an approximate resistance of 30 ohms.  If that's all you
can do, it'll be fine.  Feel free to cut off any excess.

(4) Does the ground rod need to be completely buried as per the
instructions that came with it?  I would rather leave it sticking up a
few inches or more for access if I should want to check the connection
or connect another wire.

     That's fine.

(5) My goal is to keep static charges from building up on the antenna.
How does this connection to ground thru the *mast* achieve this?  My
Cushcraft instructions indicate that this is the correct way to keep
static charges from building up.  Is the static buildup on the radial
part of the antenna also "bled" off?

     Sounds reasonable if the radials are connected to the common ground
wire.  I don't know about the other connection you mention.

(6) I don't want to install a static discharge unit in my feedline
right now but I may someday.  So long as I have my antenna grounded
thru the mast as described above and I keep my antenna feedline
disconnected in stormy weather, is my equipment reasonably protected
(I'm using a handheld with the above setup)?  Is there a way to
discharge any buildup thru the feedline by touching the end of the
feedline to a cold water pipe, etc?  Is this necessary?

      I guess my question is do you have anything higher  around your antenna
(telephone pole, tree, etc.)?  Unless your 2M antenna is the only obvious
thing sticking up, the lightning is more apt to hit the highest object.  See
my previous comments on this digest regarding grounding and a grounding
article you may want to read.  BTW, there is a Towertalk reflector that you
may want to check out for questions like this as well.

73,  Steve  K7LXC



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:05 1996
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From: [e-mail] (derek hutter)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Vertical Antenna Grounding Q?s
Date: 25 Aug 1996 03:38:26 GMT
Organization: Pacifier Internet Server [phone]
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>

Do these answers meet the "minimum LEGAL grounding" requirements
under Washinton State Law? The State of WA. thru the NEC spells out
the requirements for tower and antenna grounding, lightning discharge
and static dissapation in a Amatuer Radio Station.

Hope you have Liability Insurance.............

Derek KJ7HB

OR. and WA. Licensed Unlimited Electrical Jourmeyman



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:06 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Vertical Antenna Grounding Q?s
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:19:50 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
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[e-mail] wrote:
> SNIP...
> (6) I don't want to install a static discharge unit in my feedline
> right now but I may someday.  So long as I have my antenna grounded
> thru the mast as described above and I keep my antenna feedline
> disconnected in stormy weather, is my equipment reasonably protected
> (I'm using a handheld with the above setup)?  Is there a way to
> discharge any buildup thru the feedline by touching the end of the
> feedline to a cold water pipe, etc?  Is this necessary?
>
>       I guess my question is do you have anything higher  around your antenn
a
> (telephone pole, tree, etc.)?  Unless your 2M antenna is the only obvious
> thing sticking up, the lightning is more apt to hit the highest object.

I must interject a relevant point about the above. It is not necessarily
true that lightening will hit the highest conductor. The fact is that
lightening will take the path of least resistance. That includes the
conductivity of the atmosphere.

While visiting the Grand Canyon some years ago I saw this demonstrated
when an electrical storm passed overhead. There were several high
plateaus the lightening could have hit, but most of the strikes went
clear to the bottom of the canyon. I have also seen a few strikes around
my property and most never hit my grounded 60' Rohn 25G tower with a
large beam. From these experiences I never make assumptions about where
lightening will strike.

 See
> my previous comments on this digest regarding grounding and a grounding
> article you may want to read.  BTW, there is a Towertalk reflector that you
> may want to check out for questions like this as well.
>
> 73,  Steve  K7LXC

Regards,
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:07 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dave Harrison)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Vertical installation...
Date: 25 Aug 1996 18:12:58 GMT
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4vq53a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


In a few weeks I'll be moving to  a house w/o CCR's, so I can finally
install the Hustler 4BTV I go t second hand.  The manual for the antenna
suggests pounding in the mast for ground mounted operation.  Digging a
hole and using cement sounds safer, and I can still run radials to get a
good ground, and attach the mast to a ground rod.  Any suggestions of
things I  need to be aware of to do a safe (mechanically and from
lightning) installation.  The County doesn't require an inspection or
permits, and I get the run-around trying to get a copy of the local
building code to look at.  Should Iguy the antenna, and will the anchors
that screw into the ground do?  Is bracing the antenna against the house
at roof level better?  And how far away does my 2m antenna need to be from
this?  I plan on running 50-100W if this affects the installation.  Please
answer here or at [e-mail].  THanks




From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:08 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Emarit Ranu)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Followup-To: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 23 Aug 1996 14:02:31 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
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Xref: news2.epix.net sci.physics.electromag:11213 rec.radio.shortwave:77919 sci.physics:191983 sci.electronics.design:10864 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23721

Sumit Roy ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hi,

: Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon as
: possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
: thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
: electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie in
: the range 500kHz to 75MHz. Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
: (which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
: not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.

        That would be a large set of waveguides!

: TIA.

: Sumit Roy

--
        -Emarit Ranu, KG0CQ 73's  [e-mail]
        Electrical Engineering     Colorado State University
        All generalizations are bad.     Censorship:  ######
        _._  __.  _____  _._.  __._


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:10 1996
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From: "Marcus H. Mendenhall" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:40:15 -0500
Organization: Vanderbilt University (most of the time)
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References: <[e-mail]>
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To: Sumit Roy <[e-mail]>
Xref: news2.epix.net sci.physics.electromag:11234 rec.radio.shortwave:77959 sci.physics:192185 sci.electronics.design:10943 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23751

Sumit Roy wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon as
> possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
> thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
> electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie in
> the range 500kHz to 75MHz.
There are good reasons why coax is used in this frequency range.  The
radius (or height, if rectangular) of a waveguide is of order 1/2
wavelength.  For 75 MHz, this would alread be something like a 2 meter
radius or height, and at 500 kHz it would be 300 meters or so.

> Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
> (which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
> not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.

Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.  Especially
at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
much radiation.  There are very few things that are as effective for
moving signals around without interference as coax cable.


Marcus Mendenhall


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:12 1996
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From: Ted Davis <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:01:55 -0700
Organization: UMR - MAEM
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Sumit Roy wrote:
 >
 > Hi,
 >
 > Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as
soon as
 > possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
 > thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
 > electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie
in
 > the range 500kHz to 75MHz. Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial
cable
 > (which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because
do
 > not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.
 >

For 500kHz the ruling dimension for waveguides is several hundred meters
- even for 75MHz it is still measured in meters.  You would probably be
better off using a shielded balanced line or a triax cable.  Or even
rigid coax, which has the solid wall of a waveguid but nothing like the
size.

--
T.E.D. ([e-mail])


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:13 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Childers)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 17:36:38 GMT
Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP;  Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA
Lines: 31
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References: <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:19:49 +0200, [e-mail] (Sumit
Roy) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon as
>possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
>thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
>electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie in
>the range 500kHz to 75MHz. Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
>(which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
>not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.

Wall thickness is not important except for structural integrity.  In
the case of a wave guide for 500 KHz you had probably better use a
wall thickness of about six to twelve inches, since the height of a
square waveguide would be about 234 feet at that frequency.

Seriously...

Waveguides are normally used to reduce transmission line loss.  Using
coax for transmission line at the frequencies you mention is quite
acceptable.  For instance the signal loss at 75 MHz when using Belden
9913 coax (This is a semi rigid low loss coax.) is just over 1 dB,
which is acceptable for both transmitting and receiving.  The loss at
500 KHz for the same coax is less than 0.15 dB.

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Childers - Arlington, Texas                          |
| mailto:[e-mail] http://rampages.onramp.net/~n5ge/ |
+----------------------------------------------------------+


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:14 1996
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From: Jim <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:08:57 -0700
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Marcus H. Mendenhall wrote:
 >
 > Sumit Roy wrote:
 > >
 > > Hi,
 > >
 > > Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon a
s
 > > possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
 > > thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
 > > electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie in
 > > the range 500kHz to 75MHz.
 > There are good reasons why coax is used in this frequency range.  The
 > radius (or height, if rectangular) of a waveguide is of order 1/2
 > wavelength.  For 75 MHz, this would alread be something like a 2 meter
 > radius or height, and at 500 kHz it would be 300 meters or so.
 >
 > > Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
 > > (which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
 > > not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.
 >
 > Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.  Especially
 > at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
 > much radiation.  There are very few things that are as effective for
 > moving signals around without interference as coax cable.
 >
 > Marcus Mendenhall

I you are _really_ worried about leakage then there is something called "Helia
x"
which has a solid (but flexible) jacket. Sizes range from 1/4" up through
1 7/8" and larger. There are even very fexible varities tradenamed 'SuperFlex'
.
Mnufactures are: Andrew and Celwave
Small diameter (.1" or so) cable known as 'semi-rigid' is also available.

Jim


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:16 1996
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From: [e-mail] (matt weber)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:37:59 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>Hi,
>
>Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon as
>possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
>thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
>electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie in
>the range 500kHz to 75MHz. Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
>(which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
>not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.
>
>That is going to be one BIG waveguide. The rule of thumb is the highest
lowest frequency that will propogate down a wave guide is determined by
width of the guide. If the guide is narrower than 1/4 wave, you can't get it
down the guide. At 500khz that would be 150 meters wide minimum!! Even at
75Mhz, that would be 1 meter wide. The thickness of the walls would be
determined from a
skin effect calculation. I haven't done the calculation, and I don't think
I would want to use aluminum anyway. The better the conductor, the thinner
the walls that would be required. My recollection is at 500khz the required
thickness is probably measured in feet.

You can generally avoid the noise generation problem by using a double
shielded coaxial cable, A waveguide is an unrealistic solution for this
problem.



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Burgstahler)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:56:55 GMT
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Jim <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Marcus H. Mendenhall wrote:
> >
> > Sumit Roy wrote:

> > > Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon
as
> > > possible.  Frequencies of interest lie in
> > > the range 500kHz to 75MHz.
> > There are good reasons why coax is used in this frequency range.  The
> > radius (or height, if rectangular) of a waveguide is of order 1/2
> > wavelength.  For 75 MHz, this would alread be something like a 2 meter
> > radius or height, and at 500 kHz it would be 300 meters or so.
> >
> > > Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
> > > (which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
> > > not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.
> >
> > Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.  Especially
> > at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
> > much radiation.  There are very few things that are as effective for
> > moving signals around without interference as coax cable.

Well, that's not quite true.  Coaxial cables using a braided outer conductor
do radiate some, just not enough to bother in most cases.  However, I work in
two-way radio and sometimes we have quite a number of coaxial lines going up a
tower, sometimes in very close proximity to each other.  If you use a coaxial
line that has a solid aluminum or copper outer conductor there is extremely
little radiation from the coax, and that's what we use.  Our shop uses Andrews
Heliax, which has a corugated solid copper outer conductor, and either a solid
or hollow inner conductor, depending on the coax size.  This is what the next
person writing was talking about too......

>I you are _really_ worried about leakage then there is something called "Heli
ax"
>which has a solid (but flexible) jacket. Sizes range from 1/4" up through
>1 7/8" and larger. There are even very fexible varities tradenamed 'SuperFlex
'.
>Mnufactures are: Andrew and Celwave
>Small diameter (.1" or so) cable known as 'semi-rigid' is also available.

However, Heliax and such can be rather expensive, so you have to have the need
to really keep the radiation down to low extremes to make it worthwhile.  Ther
e
is also double-shielded coaxial cable that is much more flexible than Heliax,
such as RG-214 (which can be expensive by itself).  Our shop uses a
double-shielded coax for coaxial jumpers that is like RG-214 but not quite as
expensive; I think it doesn't have silver-plated braid like RG-214 does, but
is still double-shielded, and can use standard connectors that RG-8 uses.


Alan Burgstahler - WA6AWD - Kent, WA, USA



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:19 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tachyon)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 23:17:57 GMT
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[e-mail] (Sumit Roy) wrote:

>Hi,

>Would appreciate some basic information about hollow waveguides as soon as
>possible. How does one calculate the appropriate diameter and wall
>thickness of a cylindrical aluminium waveguide for transmitting an
>electromagnetic wave of a known frequency? Frequencies of interest lie in
>the range 500kHz to 75MHz. Prefer a hollow waveguide over a coaxial cable
>(which probably is more appropriate at this frequency range) because do
>not want the transmission to generating RF noise in the surrounding.

>TIA.

>Sumit Roy

Who's backyard are you building this in? You will need a building
permit to do it.
NIMBY



From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:20 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Graham Seale)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 00:32:34 GMT
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In message <[e-mail]> "Marcus H. Mendenhall" wrote:


> Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.  Especially
> at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
> much radiation.  There are very few things that are as effective for
> moving signals around without interference as coax cable.

Hmm.. Sorry Marcus - I have to disagree. The outer of a coax is the
return half of an unbalanced transmission line. It can be made to radiate
magnificently if the load does not completely accept the power. In principle
the common mode current in a coax outer _can_ be zero, provided both the
centre and the outer couple equally to the surroundings. In the case of coax
this situation is hard to maintain. One conductor shapes to completely
surround the other.

As others have pointed out, waveguide is inappropriate. Leakage is not
a problem, and could even be hard to measure with regular quality coax
provided the match to the cable is good. For situations where shielding is
critical, Roy could use traix. The coax is in the middle, and the very
outer is a grounded Faraday shield. If the (triax outer) shield and the
equipment have to be at a common potential you join them at _one_ point
only. For immunity to fields (broadcast/radar etc.) one can take measures
to frustrate induced very outer shield currents by using ferrites.

Putting the coax a few inches underground effectively loses a radiation
problem, but that may not suit all situations. The coax needs to be
suitable for the power transfer and installation conditions. A special danger
is if it goes between equipments fed from a different district mains power
feeds, or different phases. I once got a nasty surprise to discover how
my cable on a ship installation was the "better" path for a arc welder's
kit.

Hope this helps
73's G4WNT
--
Graham


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Followup-To: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 26 Aug 1996 18:17:12 GMT
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[e-mail] wrote:
: "Marcus H. Mendenhall" <[e-mail]> wrote:

: > Especially
: >at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
: >much radiation.
: Ever heard of a slot antenna?

So what's the radiation resistance of a .001 wavelength long slot?
Like Marcus posted, not much radiation...

: >Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.
: Above is true only when VSWR is 1:1.

??  Do you believe in linear systems?  Non-1:1 SWR is merely energy
travelling each direction on the line.



--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy McCammon)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: 27 Aug 1996 14:19:07 GMT
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[e-mail] (Brian Denheyer) wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>       Jim <[e-mail]> writes:
>>[e-mail] wrote:
>> >
>> > "Marcus H. Mendenhall" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Especially
>> > >at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
>> > >much radiation.
>> > Ever heard of a slot antenna?
>> >
>> > >Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.
>> > Above is true only when VSWR is 1:1.
>
>So they have infinite attenuation ? hmmm...Probably not.
>
>I bet garden variety RG-58 is only good for about 50-70dB with shield
>intact AND both ends matched...


Let me devide coax into two classes, those with solid shields and those withou
t.

The solid shields are real good at keeping the rf in.  The other, usually
braided shields leak.  One only has to look in the Belden catalog to notice th
at
one can buy coax with various percentage of coverage by the shield.  For a
pretty good but still flexible shield, two braids are used, hoping that
the gaps in one do not line up too often with the gaps in the other.


Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employe
r.


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:24 1996
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Jeroen BELLEMAN)
Subject: Re: Waveguide
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In article <4vtpum$[e-mail]>,
Brian Denheyer <[e-mail]> wrote:

... about leakage from coaxial cable ...
>
>So they have infinite attenuation ? hmmm...Probably not.
>
>I bet garden variety RG-58 is only good for about 50-70dB with shield
>intact AND both ends matched...

I happen to have done some measurements of cable leakage. The
dominating effect I have seen concerns low frequency leakage,
associated with the screen resistance.

Normally, the current in the central conductor is perfectly
balanced by an equal but opposite 'image' current in the screen.
The screen is not a perfect conductor however, so this image
current causes a voltage drop, and thus an E-field external to the
cable. That's precisely what leakage is. The mechanism works both
ways, also allowing a cable to pick up an external field.

For increasing frequencies, the skin-effect confines the image
current to the inside surface of the screen. So the sum effect is
that for low frequencies, the cable leakage depends on the screen
resistance, and is therefore proportional to cable length. The
effect then drops 20dB/decade with increasing frequency.

To give some ballpark figures, a 3ns length of RG58 terminated into
50 Ohms has some 70dB of attenuation at 100kHz, increasing with
frequency at 20dB/decade. Not all RG58 is equal, and connector
quality also plays its role.

Consistent with the above model is the fact that an open-ended cable
does *not* leak, and a shorted cable leakes twice as much as the
terminated case. (Source always 50 Ohms)

I have not investigated leakage at high frequencies.

Jeroen Belleman
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:25 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: KD1YV <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Western Connecticut Hamfest 15-Sep Newtown CT
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 03:10:57 -0300
Organization: Hamily
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THE WESTERN CONNECTICUT HAMFEST
Sponsored by the Candlewood Amateur Radio Association

Sunday, Sept. 15, 1996                      0900-1400
Edmond Town Hall                 Route 6, Newtown, CT
Tables inside                      Tailgating outside
ARRL Sanctioned                    Handicapped Access
Door Prizes                             Ample Parking
Gourmet Fare                            Rain or shine

Talk-in 147.12/.72 PL 141.3

General admission $4.00 at the door (what a deal!)

Tailgating $6.00, inside table reservations $10.00 each, (both
include 1 admission), mail to:
Candlewood Amateur Radio Association, PO BOX 3441, Danbury CT 06813

For more info, phone [phone] or [phone].

Hope to see you all there.
73 de KD1YV
Jim


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:26 1996
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From: Paul Knight <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTB: Hustler RM12 12M Resonator
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:20:28 -0700
Organization: Eaton Corp., Appliance Controls
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Greetings!  I'm looking for a Hustler RM12 12M resonator.  If you've
got one that isn't too banged up, drop me a note with your offer.

--
Thanks!

Paul Knight WD8DKY
[e-mail]

-or-

[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:27 1996
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From [e-mail] Tue Aug 27 16:04:28 1996
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:40 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:00:20 -0700
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Sumit Roy wrote:
> Frequencies of interest lie in
> the range 500kHz to 75MHz. Prefer a hollow waveguide ...

Hi Roy, when you get your 500kHz waveguide completed, I would like to
take a picture of it. Course, I'll need a wider angle lens to capture
that 0.186 mile wide waveguide.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:41 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:44:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>A cable shield isn't always a shield, and it certainly does not need
>to carry equal and opposite currents by some law.

Hi Tom, the best example I can thing of is Marconi feeding of a coax
fed dipole - hardly any equal/opposite currents.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:42 1996
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From: Jim <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:07:24 -0700
Organization: Dallas/Plano Internet
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vl8u3$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:
 >
 > "Marcus H. Mendenhall" <[e-mail]> wrote:
 >
 > > Especially
 > >at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result in
 > >much radiation.
 > Ever heard of a slot antenna?
 >
 > >Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.
 > Above is true only when VSWR is 1:1.
 >
 > The largest standard waveguide is RG-290/U which works as low as 256
 > mHz.
 > dr
 >
 > Dave Rickmers            I'd wake up and
 > [e-mail]   there'd be nothing...

Rick, I was just wondering if you'd ever played with a simple TDR (Time
Domain Reflectometer)? A TDR can be easily thrown together with a pulse
generator, a scope, a BNC Tee adapter and coax.

In particular, I was wondering if you've ever seen the pulse characteristics
with the load in each of the three states: Open, Shorted and properly terminat
ed
(like 50 Ohms).

Regards, Jim


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:43 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed5.bbnplanet.com!umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: I WOULD LIKE TO BE A MANAGER
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:51:26 -0700
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Lines: 8
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Hello,

My name is Tony Naglieri my call is N1NYD qth Ware, Ma. home telephone is
413-967-7426.  I would like to help out some ham by beening a manager.

Thank You

Tony


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:44 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:31:36 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
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Jim <[e-mail]> wrote:



>Rick, I was just wondering if you'd ever played with a simple TDR (Time
>Domain Reflectometer)? A TDR can be easily thrown together with a pulse
>generator, a scope, a BNC Tee adapter and coax.

>In particular, I was wondering if you've ever seen the pulse characteristics
>with the load in each of the three states: Open, Shorted and properly termina
ted
>(like 50 Ohms).

>Regards, Jim
I have used a digital TDR which, unfortunately, just says "OPEN AT 345
METERS" etc.
dr
Dave Rickmers            I'd wake up and
[e-mail]   there'd be nothing...



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:45 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Cotts)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 6e Quad for 2m
Date: 26 Aug 1996 19:38:58 -0400
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vtcii$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.freenet.columbus.oh.us
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


I am looking for info on making a 6 element quad for 144.
I have all the info for 4 element quads but nothing for 6 elements.
Are the 2 extra elements spaced the same as the 2 directors using a steal
mast pipe? in other words, if the spacing for director are 12" between 1
and 2 of a 4 element, would the spacing between 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 be 12" also
for a 6 element with a steal mast pipe between 3-4?
Any info will help.
Thanks
--
Mike Cotts - KB8SSH
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:46 1996
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From: Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Hog Mobile -- any hams doing it?  (not a Joke).
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:03:58 -0700
Organization: Texas Instruments Asia, Taiwan ROC
Lines: 16
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Interested in contacting Harley Davidson owners who
have successfully installed HF on their HOG.
Interested to learn your antenna / HF configurations.
Also interested in any motorcycle mobile HF nets.

No..this is not April Fools.  Am truly curious.
thanks,
Joe

(1973 Sportster in storage....)
----------------------------------------------------------
Amateur Radio:  BV/N0IAT   Taipei TAIWAN Republic of China
        http://www.isite.net.tw/bv1al/e-hist.htm
ex.  7J1AOF (Japan)  YU3/N0IAT (Slovenia)  KA0ZDH (Novice)
Licensed Radio Amateur since 1986.  Comments are mine only.
----------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:50 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]  (Jon Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coiled wire antena
Date: 26 Aug 1996 20:49:59 GMT
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4vt2ln$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jon Schmidt)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip166-72-107-66.ct.us.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <[e-mail]>, Avatar <[e-mail]> writes:
>Michael Pelletier wrote:
>>
>> I,m just starting out on HF worldband recieving. there isn't much room
>> for a long wire antena. What would happen if I wrapped the wire around
>> 1" or 2" wooden dowel. Would this work as good as a long wire antena of
>> equal wire length.
>
>No! You can't fool the laws of physics. While you don't define what long
>is to you, just get as long a wire strung outside as you can, even if
>it's only 50'. You may need to use an antenna tuner for best performance.
>
>W0MAY

Actually, forming a wire into a coil with each loop a foot or two in
diameter and with the ends of the wire connected to a variable
capaciter would result in a tuned air-core loop antenna, which would
likely outperform nearly any random length wire you might care to
hang outside as well as avoiding any damage to your receiver caused
by the static which can build up on a long piece of high flying outdoor
wire.  Would this be considered fooling the laws of physics?

Rather than deciding that, because of a poor antenna, there's
nothing out there to hear and rather than trying to design and build a
good indoor receive-only antenna yourself, you should spend some money
and buy one. I personally like the Kiwa Pocket Loop antenna, which
is described at http://www.wolfe.net/~kiwa and covers the range
530KHz to 23MHz.  It works with just about any SW receiver, even the
portables with only a whip and no input connection for an external
antenna.



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:51 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!wa2ise
From: [e-mail] (Robert Casey)
Subject: Field strength meters, use for measuring for exceeding RF exposure limits?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <4vnec0$[e-mail]> <4vt08k$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:53:03 GMT
Lines: 20
Sender: [e-mail]

Can one use a cheap and easy to get (maybe Radio Shack) field stregth meter
for determining probable RF exposure?  And if one is in probable compliance
with that RF exposure standard (10mW cm^2)?  Could TVI or RFI presense or
absense be a crude indicator of a problem or not?

Say I had a field stregth meter with a whip antenna about 2 feet long, and
inside is a 1N4148 diode, a reasonable value of inductor, and a cap like
0.01uF, and a microamp meter.  If I move the meter (handheld) about and
note the strongest reading, what ballpark value should I be worried at?

I have a packet station in my apartment, 25W rig into about 15 feet of
RG58 (maybe knocks it down a few watts), into a Larsen 5/8 magmount whip
sitting on a steel cover from an orginal true blue IBM PC (the one before
hard drives).  This antenna is in a closet close to an outside wall, the
whip protrudes thru the ceiling about 3 feet into a crawl space.  Operator
position about 10 feet away horizontal and about 5 feet lower than the
antenna base.  Nearest neighbor is about twelve feet away.  And I only
get on packet about once a week.  I'm definately below the 50W minimun,
but wonder if I have a problem, I do RFI my TV and stereo set a little.
I'm on a packet BBS at 145.09MHz


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:52 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Merv Stump <[e-mail]@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Name of Solar Activity Newsgroup
Date: 26 Aug 1996 21:05:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4vt3hv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 30.middletown-02.va.dial-access.att.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I subscribed to news group which had a least one posting daily giving
essentially the same information WWV gives at 18 minutes past the hour,
but with additional info.  Unfortunately I inadvertently "unscribed" and I
can't find the news group again.

Can someone help me with the name of the group.  I think it was "Solar
something or other.   Thanks, Merv



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:53 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Paul J Mackanos)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 26 Aug 96 23:07:38 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

subscribe


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:54 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Sohl)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CORRECTION - FCC Ruling Will Require Some Hams to File Environmental Impact Reports
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 01:07:28 GMT
Organization: Mount Olive Township (NJ) Emergency Management
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4vthkt$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Gary Coffman) wrote:

>A final note. The standard requires exposures to be averaged
>over a 6 minute period for operators, or a 30 minute period
>for the general public (whose standard exposure levels are
>lesser than for operators). So a station whose peak exposures
>violate the standard may still be Ok if the average exposure
>level is sufficiently lower than the peak. Again this is a
>somewhat *political* decision and doesn't mean it is safe.

Wouldn't a typical case for an amateur set-up be one in which
the result is at least divided by two as a result of the typical
amateur QSO being a 2 way communication with an average
duty cycle being 50%?

Additionally, for general public exposure, it would seem that
most situations would result in even lower exposure levels
because of movement by the "public" through an area
as opposed to sitting in one place.  Granted there may be
some exceptions to that, but I can't think of any at the
moment.

In another post, Clay N4AOX said:
> Hmmm, based on what you say, it seems that other thinkgs being equal a
>low duty cycle mode like Morse OOK CW would be provide a lower exposure
>to operators and the public when averaged over the same amount of time
>than say an FSK mode. In other words Morse code, among other positive
>attributes is more healthy than some of the newer fad modes.  ;-)

That too would improve (i.e. leesen an otherwise high or excessive
value that might be generated by calculation).  As Clay notes,
CW is not a continuous transmission, so a duty cycle for transmit
only can probably be fairly easy to calculate.  On that same
basis, SSB transmissions do not contain the Peak levels
except at certain speech patterns, so some average value
or correction factor would be helpful when calculating SSB
averages.

Bill Sohl  K2UNK
ARRL Local Gov't Liaison, Mt. Olive Township, NJ



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:55 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Larry Wolken)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.pirate,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy
Subject: Re: Thinking of purchasing a handheld scanner
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:10:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <4vtsp9$[e-mail]>
References: <4vg791$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rvl-md4-55.ix.netcom.com
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[e-mail] (Douglas Alexander) wrote:

>I am thinking of purchasing a handheld scanner

>I have been told the following units are quite nice:

>   Uniden BC3000xlt
>   ICOM R1
>   AOR 2700

>I would like to get some feedback on the quality and capabilities of these
>or other recommended units before I purchase.

>Please email feedback to [e-mail]

>--
>[e-mail]
>--

>Douglas Alexander
>Florida Power & Light
>Turkey Point Nuclear Plant
>Nuclear Operations Department

>--
>Pardon me,
>I am from the 24th century,
>and I'm heading back as soon as
>Doc Brown fixes the Flux Capacitor!


I've owned probably 40 different handheld scanners in the last five
years and there is no doubt in my mind that none of the above is the
correct answer.

If you can find a pro-43 at a reasonable price grab it.  The later
ones cannot be unblocked  for cellular and I've never owned one of
them so I can't tell you much about them but the earlier ones (don't
ask me dates)  have the best audio, intermod rejection, image
rejection, and ergonomics of anything that I've ever used.  I've
always kept at least one even though I've bought and sold many.

Dr. Electrode
a.k.a.  Larry Wolken N3OJD
voice   [phone]



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:56 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Followup-To: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Date: 27 Aug 1996 04:40:08 GMT
Organization: Public Electronic Access to Knowledge,Corvallis,US
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Gregg ([e-mail]) wrote:
: >
: >After deciphering "If you can read this, you really ought to get out
: >more," I decided the effort greatly outweighed the rewards!

: Jeff, you're using the built-in newsreader in the Netcruiser software.
: It's crap.  Try using Free Agent -- and, if you like it, you can buy
: Agent -- and you can do ROT13 with a couple of mouse clicks.  Much
: more importantly, you can also do most of your Usenet news stuff
: offline.

Or, if you use 'tin' as the newsreader, you can do so by simply pressing
a lower case d key while in read mode.

Bill


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:57 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 27 Aug 1996 05:36:01 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 77
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4vufi1$[e-mail]>
References: <4vpo00$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vpo00$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>
>Perhaps you haven't seen Roy's response to my question yet,
>but the reason for this is that the coax is forcing equal
>and opposite currents.  All the current is entering one end
>of the resistor from the center conductor, and the same
>value must return to the inner shield.  There is no current
>"left over" to travel down the outer shield, because the
>coax won't permit its inner currents to unbalance.
>
Hi Jack,

Coax doesn't "force" anything. It almost seems like we are making a rule
out of something we want to have happen. While equal and opposite current
is a desirable condition in a TEM mode transmission line, equal and
opposite current certainly isn't something mandated by any rule.

Cecil's Marconi fed dipole is an excellent example of this, here are a few
others.

1.) Make a transformer out of coax by exciting opposite ends of the center
conductor.
You will measure ~equal voltage across the open ends of the shield and the
center conductor. If the path is closed through some load across the
shield ends, current will flow through the load. "Shield" current and
voltage will be IN PHASE with the center, and the outside won't short out
the inside.

2.) Re-read the other line examples I gave. They are all true. So is
Cecil's example. Current does NOT have to be equal and opposite on the
center conductor and the inside of the shield, and if current is not equal
and opposite it won't stay on the inside for a large fraction of a
wavelength. In a longer line current will "move" to the outside.... and
certainly can do so without going to the ends and spilling over.

Skin depth is caused by eddy currents. Current moves to the surface
because it is an easier path....not because the "inside" turns into an
insulator. At risk of stepping into the "current debate", the only reason
current even tries to flow over the skin is because some current flows
deeper in the conductor. Eddy currents "push" current out to an easier
path, but the eddy current must always be deeper than the current that
"creates it". Without some current "deeper" than the smallest current
path, there would be no skin effect and current would move deeper. It's a
bit of a conundrum.

The EIEAO rule (equal inside, equal and opposite) just doesn't work in
every case.

For example, let's take a pair of parallel conductors. Cause RF current to
flow in one, and all that happens in the other is parallel in-phase
voltage is developed across the opposing ends. If we add three more
parallel wires surrounding the current carrying wire in the center,
nothing changes. We can connect the wires at each end of the wire cage or
anywhere along the cage with no effect. We can continue to add wires until
the center wire is surrounded with a solid wall with no reversing of
current, or we can keep adding circular wires until we enclose it. We are
merely connecting things that have the same electric fields at every
point, so the connection does nothing.

Say we build this thing, and then excite the open ends of the surrounding
wire "cage" with opposite polarity and equal current. With one wire in the
cage or an infinite number, we have a transmission line. Current is equal
and opposite because we made it so, not because of any EIEAO rule. Current
tries to move to closest surfaces of either two conductors, or the inside
of the cage and the outside of the center wire closest to each out of
phase wire...until in-between fields are in balance. All this happens only
when we excite the line with opposing currents.

We can even excite the line so the center conductor has more current than
the shield's inside over the entire distance of the line, so long as that
distance is a fraction of a wavelength.

Waveguide is another story,  but we aren't talking about TE modes.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:41:58 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Date: 27 Aug 1996 08:01:11 GMT
Organization: DigiPhone Corporation, Bryan/College Station Texas 409-693-8885
Lines: 54
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In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (FORREST
 GEHRKE) writes:
>Colatchco changed hands a number of times.  The last I heard
>of it, K8UR had it.  Apparently it is now in other hands.
>There are many 4squares of this type on 80M both in the
>USA and in Europe.  They operate close enough to decently,
>as Roy says, and don't require tedious measurements, solution
>of simultaneous equations or knowledge of complex algebra.
>C'est la vie.......
>//
>BTW  Dana was a great fellow to know.  I enjoyed his
>     always wry humor. He certainly popularized the
>     low band 4square antenna array.  RIP
>
>k2bt  OOTC OFC
> * RM 1.3 02583 * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a

Exactly so, Forest....  close enough to decently, that they provide about a
25DB or so F/B ratio on average arrival angle signals.  Close enough that
they do show a decent gain of sorts near enough to the book not to fret
about what might be a lot better.  When I get a clean 4, 5, or maybe 6
S units change as I swap around the box, I think, gee, you know I'd LOVE
to have a 3 element beam on up there.  I'd LOVE to try a 105 foot boom
six element yagi on 40 meters at 5/8 wave up or a little bit higher so I
could experiment with a nice clean pattern shape.

However, there is only so much time and so much money for everyone, less
for lots of us.  Therefore we tend to let perfection slip away, tending to
want to operate the stuff, rather than chase a more perfect form of it.

When I was disussing this elevated all grounded array with the W3 who wrote
the article on the elevated vertical in QST, he made a comment to me.  He
said, he'd like to know the exact measurements on the thing.  However, he
said, "You probably didn't really measure all of this out because you just
couldn't easily reach up there to change the tap point and all that just to
see what was really going on!"

Of course he is right!

It worked too darned well at the point when the SWR went down to so low
on a single pole that you couldn't even see the needle move off zero....

   I just lost interest in measuring it all out, I guess.

However, you are perfectly correct, I think.  If it were perfect, the SWR
would be that same way on the 4 element job, wouldn't it?

    :) :)

Mike @ W5WQN
[e-mail]
[e-mail]





From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:00 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 08:03:20 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
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   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>######### Current flowing on the center conductor creates an
>>equal and opposite current on the inner shield.########

>Please, anyone, explain how this strange effect occurs when
>the shield is floating or when the shield is connected to the
>center at the transmitter!!!! Don't just "say" it occurs by
>some "law" pulled from an empty pocket.

Tom, I've amended my earlier post by stating that current will
not enter the cable from the shorted end.  It is my contention
that coax will not support or pass common mode current within
the cable, which of course agrees with my view of equal and
opposite currents.  Sorry for any confusion on this point.

As for the shield floating, that never actually occurs.  The
inner surface of the shield is tightly coupled to the center
conductor.  Neither can "float" at a current amplitude
(absolute value) significantly different than the other.

>Explain this:
>
>+  -----(======={{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{=====)--------  -
>         ^               ferrite sleeve         ^
>         ^                                          ^
>         +                                          -
>
>Why do all the transformers in the world work backwards from
>the EIAIO theory?

I'm not sure what this means.  Are you saying the current on
the inner shield is traveling the same direction as current
on the center conductor?

Incidentally, you haven't responded to my question about
the operation of the balun in relation to all this yet
(asked twice).  An additional explanation might help me to
understand your position on this point, i.e. how the balun
prevents feedline current when the shield can be penetrated
everywhere by the inner fields.

One more thing.  I cannot find any mention of fields or
currents passing through the shield in "Reflections."  In
describing the operation of baluns, Maxwell solely credits
"spill over" as the cause of outer shield currents.  I have
to ask if you believe Maxwell is wrong on this issue, or
whether he was merely simplifyig for the benefit of less
astute readers?  Or perhaps there was another reason for his
choice of explanation?  I'm only asking because I know that
you and I both respect the theories presented in that work.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:05 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:30:05 +0100
Organization: IFW Technical Services
Lines: 30
Distribution: world
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 <4vtqhh$[e-mail]>
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W8JI  Tom wrote:
>Don't just "say" it occurs by some "law" pulled from an
>empty pocket.

Oh, Tom, you've pushed one of my buttons...

The whole point about Maxwell's "equations", Faraday's "theorem",
Ampere's "theorem", Kirchhoff's "law", Lenz's "law" and all the rest
is that they do not - repeat NOT - come from an empty pocket!

Each one comes from truckloads of different examples, which have all
been explained using exactly the same underlying concepts. Each one has
earned its status as a "physical law" by its long record of totally
consistent successes.

(OK, some of these 19th-century "laws" grow fuzzy around the edges where
quantum and relativistic effects creeep in. But the questions we're
dealing with here are slap in the middle of home territory where all the
laws of EM physics hold firm and strong.)

There seems to be a hole in the educational system. Faced with the
10001st new question, the scientist is trained to rely on the physical
laws that summarize the previous 10000 cases. The engineer seems to be
trained to scratch his head 10001 times.


73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:06 1996
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From: Jim <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag,rec.radio.shortwave,sci.physics,sci.electronics.design,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Waveguide
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:48:43 -0700
Organization: Dallas/Plano Internet
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Harry H Conover wrote:
 >
 > Jim ([e-mail]) wrote:
 > : [e-mail] wrote:
 > :  >
 > :  > "Marcus H. Mendenhall" <[e-mail]> wrote:
 > :  >
 > :  > > Especially
 > :  > >at these frequencies, even large gaps in the shield would not result
in
 > :  > >much radiation.
 > :  > Ever heard of a slot antenna?
 > :  >
 > :  > >Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.
 > :  > Above is true only when VSWR is 1:1.
 > :  >
 > :  > The largest standard waveguide is RG-290/U which works as low as 256
 > :  > mHz.
 > :  > dr
 > :  >
 > :  > Dave Rickmers            I'd wake up and
 > :  > [e-mail]   there'd be nothing...
 > :
 > : Rick, I was just wondering if you'd ever played with a simple TDR (Time
 > : Domain Reflectometer)? A TDR can be easily thrown together with a pulse
 > : generator, a scope, a BNC Tee adapter and coax.
 > :
 > : In particular, I was wondering if you've ever seen the pulse characterist
ics
 > : with the load in each of the three states: Open, Shorted and properly ter
minated
 > : (like 50 Ohms).
 >
 > Anyone that has ever studied either electronics or physics would realized
 > that in these cases, you get: A normal reflection, an inverse reflection,
 > and no reflection.  It shouldn't take a TDR to reveal this.

true ...

 >
 > I am compelled to ask: What is the point you're trying to make?
 >
 >                                        Harry C.


... that all this takes place on the inside (of the coax) ...

RE: (above)
> :  > >Coaxial cables do not leak _any_ RF if the shield is intact.
> :  > Above is true only when VSWR is 1:1.

Question: Did you see the above two lines in the post?

Regards, Jim


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:07 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!qualcuno.nettuno.it!sirio.cineca.it!galileo.polito.it!usenet
From: Paolo Tealdi <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.scanner,rec.radio.amateur.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.swap
Subject: Portable VHF mark ALINCO model DJ180E
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:32:14 +0200
Organization: Politecnico di Torino (Italy)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23874 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:16796 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:31941 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:16549 rec.radio.amateur.misc:106203 rec.radio.amateur.space:7428

A friend of mine is a radio amateur and he has got this transceiver
radio:
        RTX mark ALINCO
        ELECTRONICS INC. JAPAN
        Portable VHF
        model DJ180E

He has got two questions about this radio:
1) How can he modify his radio to extend the band from 144/146 MHz to
130/170 MHz?
2) Can he receive the "manual for use" of this radio? (A photocopy of
the manual is acceptable too!)

For details, please conctact me through my personal e-mail address.
Thank you very much!

Paolo Tealdi - Italy
E-mail: [e-mail]
WWW: http://www.polito.it/~s76511/index.html


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:08 1996
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From: Siegfried Rambaum <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Subject: Fiberglass rods
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:49:14 -0400
Organization: ART MATRIX - LIGHTLINK
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: Siegfried Rambaum <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23894 rec.radio.swap:71971

Does anyone know a good mail order supplier for fiberglass rods of the
type needed for cubical quads? And for those hard to find parts that
connect the rods to the boom? I don't know, what those might be called (I
am German, only in the USA since a few months and have not yet picked up
all the words needed for sensible shopping in hardware stores)...




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:12 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Common mode currents
Date: 27 Aug 1996 11:21:11 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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>>the generator had any electrical mass (a less than infinite common mode
>>impedance)
>
>Ok, a new illumination of your "electrical mass". I have to ask, a
>common mode impedance between which two points? An impedance can't
>be a singular point, and this has been the problem I've had with
>your "electrical mass" concept. What closes the loop for the currents
>through this impedance? Between what two points is it measured?
>

Between the feedline and the connection to the antenna Gary, or the
generator, or anything else we connect.

Try this.

Put the antenna in space, where you claim the coax can't have common mode
currents (far, far from earth).

Place a small generator at the feedpoint, and hang a 1/4 wl of coax from
the center of the antenna out at a perfect right angle. (You can short the
cable 1/4 wl from the antenna, so it does not short the generator).

Such a system will exhibit common mode excitation of the (stub) feedline.
The finite common mode impedance of the coax, and it's non-symmetrical
exposure to the antenna of the different inner and outer conductors,
causes common mode current.

If the feedline were twinlead, it wouldn't happen.

Earth does not have to be involved. Any other conductor of sufficently low
impedance can be the reference, and that includes the feedline itself.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:13 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ground mounted vertical question
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:48:08 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 12
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CHRISTOPHER CARTWRIGHT wrote:
> Question is, would it be better to mount the hamstick with a mirror bracket
> directly to a ground rod (the feed point is 3" above the ground) or, use the
> same bracket mounted 12' up on the deck railing with a #10 or #12 "ground"
> wire down to the ground rod.

Hi Christopher, Your single ground rod will not do much good and the 12' wire
run will have some nasty effects on the higher bands. I would be tempted to us
e
the deck railing as the counterpoise unless it is shared with your neighbors.
Any chance of simply running a coax cable from your house to your car antenna?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:14 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ycc.yale.edu!yale!news-mail-gateway!daemon
From: Kevin Muenzler <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Aluminium tubing
Date: 27 Aug 1996 12:52:43 -0400
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Lines: 27
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: babyblue.cs.yale.edu

In article <4vl5co$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter Chow)
wrote:
>It's time to bow to the wisdom of the net again...

>I would like to build myself a vertical and found there is two
>available aluminium tubings: 6063-T832 and 6061-T6.

>Can anyone shed some light on this? What is their difference?
>Thanks in advance.

>73,
>KF6DLT

The main difference between 6061 and 6063 is that 6063 is a little
harder and less flexible than 6061.  6063 aluminum is used for
mounting brackets and such where flexibility is not needed.
6061 is strong and flexible.  You could use 6063 for the element
of your vertical but it would be more likely to break in a strong
wind than bend with the wind.  If you are going to build something
like an 80 meter vertical you can use 2 inch 6063 and guy it very
well.  The 6063 would be much less likely to bow in the middle
and would be able to support its own weight much better than 6061.
If you are building a 40 meter vertical or smaller you can use
the 1 inch 6061 stuff.  The 6061 is a LOT cheaper than 6063.
Hope this helps.

Kevin, WB5RUE


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:15 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!guitar.sound.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Bob White)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hardline connectors needed
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:13:27 GMT
Organization: Sound Advice Limited's over worked and underpaid news service.
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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I have about 150 ft. of Prodelin 31-890 that I need connectors for.
I think that Cablewave bought out Prodelin's cable & point to point
antenna division in 1983, but maybe some one still has a couple
connectors in the shack.   I  hope so !       Thanks


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:16 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Elmquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Matching folded dipole to 50 ohm line ?
Date: 27 Aug 1996 15:23:20 -0500
Organization: The Basement of N0JCF
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4vvlfo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: n0jcf.com

What is a convenient way to match a folded dipole (300 ohm??) to
a 50 ohm feedline ?

Most of the literature I can find on folded dipoles speaks of how
convenient they are to match directly to 300 ohm twin lead or to
75 ohm line with a 4:1 balun.  I can't find anything showing a
connection to 50 ohm line.

Seems I need a 6:1 balun...  How do you make one of those with
a single piece of transmission line ?

Mostly, I'm puzzled how the M^2 VHF/UHF yagis do it... it appears
that the driven element is a folded dipole...  then there's a piece
of coax with type F connectors looping in and out of the feed point
assembly... which then has a 50 ohm connection to the feedline.  Is
this coax a piece of 75 ohm line ?  What's the length as a function of
frequency ?

Thanks for any clues.

Chris
--
Chris Elmquist, N0JCF
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:17 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx10-45
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 15:57:37 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <4vv5rc$[e-mail]>
References: <4vs3t5$[e-mail]> <4vtqhh$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <4vtqhh$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>######### Current flowing on the center conductor creates an
>>equal and opposite current on the inner shield.########
>
>Please, anyone, explain how this strange effect occurs when the shield is
>floating or when the shield is connected to the center at the
>transmitter!!!! Don't just "say" it occurs by some "law" pulled from an
>empty pocket.

I've tried and failed. And I'm certainly unable to do it as long as you
consider Maxwell's equations, one of which is Ampere's law, as being
"pulled from an empty pocket". How about: The current on the center
conductor creates a field. This field induces a current on the inside of
the outer conductor.

I think we agree that in the floating-shield case, the current on the
outside of the shield is equal to and in the same direction as the current
on the inside. (Don't we? Or does your floating-shield coax not radiate?
Or does the field from the center conductor radiate through the shield?)
Question: Where does the current on the outside of the shield go when it
hits the end?

>Explain this:
>
>+  -----(======={{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{=====)--------  -
>         ^               ferrite sleeve         ^
>         ^                                          ^
>         +                                          -
>
>Why do all the transformers in the world work backwards from the EIAIO
>theory? Perhaps what we CALL it makes a difference in how it behaves? If I
>call the device a feedline excited with a common mode signal, polarity on
>the shield suddenly reverses? If I keep the same device and CALL it a
>transformer, polarity suddenly agrees with the above?

Could you please re-phrase the question and re-draw the diagram? It's
not clear what it represents or what the question is. What's EIAIO? That
the currents on the inside of coax are equal and opposite certainly doesn't
interfere with understanding transformer operation.

>Perhaps I am expected to believe current moves the opposite direction yet
>polarity is the same?

Opposite to and same as what?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Lucas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160M inv. L ... help!
Date: 27 Aug 1996 16:42:27 GMT
Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA
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I have a 60 foot wooden pole 50 feet from my shack, and 200 feet from
that, another one... wanna build an inv L for 160.
Do I just run wire from the bottom of  the close tower, to the top of it
and then out 200 feet to the top of the other pole? Can I feed it from
the bottom of the first pole with coax? Can I tune that inside the
shack?  If not, how do I find  values of capacitor to tune at bottom of
pole? 73 Bob WA0DXZ e-mail please



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:18 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Lucas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160M vertical... help!
Date: 27 Aug 1996 16:44:44 GMT
Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA
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I have a bout a 50 foot pipe up along a wooden pole, with a capacitance
hat. How do i feed/tune this? How sdo I determine what size
capacitor/network to use?  Any guesses? Do I need to add a coil at the
bottom of the pipe and tap onto that? What size/diameter/length do i
start with? I inherited the mess, and wanna make it work. e-mail please
WA0DXZ Bob



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:20 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Matching folded dipole to 50 ohm line ?
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:54:09 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
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Chris Elmquist wrote:
>
> What is a convenient way to match a folded dipole (300 ohm??) to
> a 50 ohm feedline ?
>
> Most of the literature I can find on folded dipoles speaks of how
> convenient they are to match directly to 300 ohm twin lead or to
> 75 ohm line with a 4:1 balun.  I can't find anything showing a
> connection to 50 ohm line.
>
> Seems I need a 6:1 balun...  How do you make one of those with
> a single piece of transmission line ?
>
> Mostly, I'm puzzled how the M^2 VHF/UHF yagis do it... it appears
> that the driven element is a folded dipole...  then there's a piece
> of coax with type F connectors looping in and out of the feed point
> assembly... which then has a 50 ohm connection to the feedline.  Is
> this coax a piece of 75 ohm line ?  What's the length as a function of
> frequency ?
>
> Thanks for any clues.
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Elmquist, N0JCF
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]

Let's take this subject step by step.

A true folded dipole has an input Z of 288 ohms (approx. 300). When the
driven line of the folded dipole is shorter, it is a stub fed antenna
(this is the same as the driven element on a Yagi using a stub driven
element). In the latter case the stub usually exhibits an inductive
reactance, which is tuned out with a gamma capacitor connection.

A true balun provides impedance ratios in powers of two (ie, 4, 9, 16,
etc., except for the 1:1 balun). By that definition, a 6:1 is an
autotransformer, not a true balun.

A 75:300 ohm balun is one solution. When used with a 50 ohm source it
will show a 1.5:1 SWR if everything is working by the book. A 50:200 ohm
balun can be made and works fine if the antenna presents a 200 ohm load.
I built a folded dipole for 80/75M and hung it inverted-V fashion. In
this configuration the fed point Z of the antenna is lowered. I can cover
the entire band with under 3:1 SWR! The balun for this antenna was built
from information in a two-part article in the Feb. & Mar. 1980 issues of
Ham Radio magazine. The baluns are made with very short lengths of
coaxial cable. Note that all true baluns (a transmission line
transformer) require the transmission line winding to be the geometric
mean of the impedances to be matched. In a 50:200 ohm balun this means
the line must be 100 ohms. In the balun I built, I used 92 ohm coax
(RG-62).

You might also look for my posting called Baluns VS RF Transformers.

Regards,
W0MAY



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:21 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Pete Soper)
Subject: Re: Open Wire Insulators (acrylic and ladderline standoff tip)
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:56:22 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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"C. J. Hawley" <[e-mail]> writes:

>inch thickness right on the end. If you use acrylic or some other
>plastic, it will split, but not the Lexan.

I thought Lexan is a brand name for a type of acrylic?  If not,
what is this? Polycarbonate?

I go to the local plastics wholesaler and rummage through their
scrap box every few months and get sheet acrylic. They sell it for a
few dollars a pound. I get all the raw materials I need for antenna
projects for practically nothing. I have gotten some types that split
(and especially that shatter when drilled) but most sheet acrylic is
very easy to work with. The methylene chloride adhesive available for
acrylic makes super glue look slow and can provide extremely strong
bonds if you mate clean, flat, lightly sanded surfaces.

One area I'm interested in is the long term effects of UV. I had a
Lazy-H up with acrylic sheet parts for the center and corner insulators
and the phasing line connection point but it was only up for six months
before a storm took down one support tree (100 foot Poplar, made
me cry). But after six months I could see no visible deterioration in
the plastic parts so I'm cautiously optimistic. But it's time to
visit the wholesaler pretty soon and this time I'll quiz them about
the different types of plastic and their UV tolerance.

Speaking of cutting plastic with a saw and "snapping in" wires,
the Wireman catalog has a super idea for ladderline standoffs. Take
UV-resistant plastic conduit (I used the 2" diameter stuff) and drill
a row of holes down it, going through both sides. Then saw down the
length of the pipe, cutting through the line made by one set of holes.
Then cut perpendicular "slices" between each pair of holes. You can
now stick a screw driver through the holes to screw each standoff
to something with a woodscrew, then pull the split end apart, slide
your ladderline in and you're done. (I can't recall if Wireman described
these or I made them after looking at a picture of one in their
catalog, but who cares?)

Regards,
Pete
KS4XG


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:25 1996
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From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Hog Mobile -- any hams doing it?  (not a Joke).
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:55:43 -0500
Organization: Internet Oklahoma
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Tovar wrote:
>
> > I don't think the state of the art of noise cancellation mics
> > has made this possible yet. :-)
>
> We have someone regularly using a local repeater "motorcycle mobile"
> and his audio is just fine.  If i suspect that if you're mouth is an
> inch or so from the mike, it'll win easily over the noise if it's
> not to badly in the wind.  I would bet one may even be able to
> homebrew something, using ordinary headphones and a cheap electret
> microphone available at Radio Shack.  I removed one of the earphones
> and made a switch that i can actuate with both hands on the wheel,
> so it's both 'street legal' in California and reasonable safe to
> operate.  The project was written up in QST about the time I got my
> license, and i'll either give an exact date or a write-up of my
> version of the project upon request.  The hard part is probably
> making it rugged enough that it doesn't need aperiodic maintenance.
>
>

How about a throat mike. I picked on up at Okla. Comm Center (now out of
business). I forget the brand name but they made models for different
ham talkies. I used it both for bicycle mobile and airborne mobile (my
twin engine airplane is an extremly noisey enviroment). It worked quite
well and I am sure it would work for motorcycle mobile.

73 Hank WA5JRH


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Doug D)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: I WOULD LIKE TO BE A MANAGER
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 19:00:14 GMT
Organization: The DataXchange Network, Inc
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[e-mail] wrote:

>Hello,

>My name is Tony Naglieri my call is N1NYD qth Ware, Ma. home telephone is
>413-967-7426.  I would like to help out some ham by beening a manager.

>Thank You

>Tony

That's assualt & battery ;-)

--
Send a FREE message to your military family member.
North American Center for Emergency Communications.
NACEC) http://www.nacec.org



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:27 1996
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From: [e-mail](Dan Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help with loop antenna design
Date: 27 Aug 1996 20:17:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4vvl5h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca13-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 27  1:17:53 PM PDT 1996

I want to design a loop antenna to use for AM radio reception using
my MFJ versa tuner and my shortwave receiver.

I'm planning to make the loop about three feet in diameter,  resonant
at about the middle of the BC band (800kHz), and I need the impedence
to be 50ohms to feed my tuner. (I want to use coax as a feeder)

I need some basic info: how many turns, wire size, baluns, etc.

Any suggestions?

Thanks de Dan KE6LBX




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (RickH5986)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ventenna (anyone ever used)
Date: 27 Aug 1996 21:05:59 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I have been using a Ventenna (2m/440 dual band) on the roof of my mobile
home for about 4 years now. It compares to using a 5/8 mobile antenna.
Performance is not great, but you do what you can with the restrictions
that you have.
73 de N8WQY


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:29 1996
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From: KI4RO John <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Counterpoise vs. Radials?
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:16:56 -0700
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What's the difference?  A friend asked me and I couldn't answer him.

73


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:30 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Rich McAllister)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Hog Mobile -- any hams doing it?  (not a Joke).
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Date: 27 Aug 1996 22:47:06 -0700
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        <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> Cecil Moore <[e-mail].c
om> writes:

> although everyone agreed that the sound of a Harley engine
> coming over the repeater is pretty neat. :-)

I thought sending music over the ham bands was against regs.

--
Rich McAllister, KO6CL, [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:31 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Oujesky)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.pirate,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy
Subject: Re: Thinking of purchasing a handheld scanner
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:56:30 GMT
Organization: Why? Network   [phone]
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>>I am thinking of purchasing a handheld scanner

>>I have been told the following units are quite nice:

>>   Uniden BC3000xlt
>>   ICOM R1
>>   AOR 2700


Currently I have PRO-26, AR2700, and AR8000 handheld scanners.  At the
street price of around $200, I'd suggest the AR2700 as a best buy.
While the RF and audio isn't quite up to the '43's, it's not that bad
either.  The two features I prefer over the '43 is the attenuation by
channel (on all three models) and the computer interface to dump and
load the frequencies.  I do find the keyboard operation of the 2700
quite cumbersome for a scanner.  It's virtually impossible to link in
additional banks while drive.

My two cents worth.





From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:32 1996
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From: KD1YV <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Western Connecticut Hamfest 15-Sep Newtown CT
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:07:15 -0300
Organization: Hamily
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THE WESTERN CONNECTICUT HAMFEST
Sponsored by the Candlewood Amateur Radio Association

Sunday, Sept. 15, 1996                      0900-1400
Edmond Town Hall                 Route 6, Newtown, CT
Tables inside                      Tailgating outside
ARRL Sanctioned                    Handicapped Access
Door Prizes                             Ample Parking
Gourmet Fare                            Rain or shine

Talk-in 147.12/.72 PL 141.3

General admission $4.00 at the door (what a deal!)

Tailgating $6.00, inside table reservations $10.00 each, (both
include 1 admission), mail to:
Candlewood Amateur Radio Association, PO BOX 3441, Danbury CT 06813

For more info, phone [phone] or [phone].

Hope to see you all there.
73 de KD1YV
Jim


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:33 1996
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From: Merv Stump <[e-mail]@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Date: 27 Aug 1996 23:36:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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Forrest, thanks for sharing the story. It was listening to Fred and Dana
work VKs longpath on 75 meters some 12 or 15 years ago that got me hooked
on lowband DXing.

By the way, Dennis Mitchell (K8UR) named the company ComTek and
subsequently sold it to Jim Miller (KB4HK).  Jim continues to refine the
box and is marketing it quite successfully around the world.

Regards, Merv



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (richard smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #539
Date: 28 Aug 96 01:20:42 GMT
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unsubscribe




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:34 1996
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From: [e-mail] (richard smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #540
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dan Finn)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: CORRECTION - RF Calculation
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 03:35:26 GMT
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[e-mail] wrote:


>In Article<[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
>writes:

>> For example, the Rrad of a dipole is roughly 50 ohms (would be 73 ohms
>> in free space). At 100 watts, that gives a feedpoint current of 1.414
>> amperes. The magnetic field declines inversely with distance in the
>> near field (not the inverse square as is the case for power). So 1.414/0.16
3
>> = 8.67 meters. That's the near field safe distance from the current node
>> in the antenna for the controlled magnetic field exposure. For the
>> uncontrolled exposure, the minimum safe distance is 19.8 meters. Similarly,

>> for the electric field, the safe distances are the same, but from the
>> antenna voltage nodes (the ends for a dipole) instead of the feedpoint.


>I made an error here. I forgot to include the factor of 2*pi in the
>above figures. That reduces the safe distance for controlled exposure
>to just 1.38 meters, and for uncontrolled exposures to 3.15 meters.
>That's much better.

Although the FCC report and order says nothing about the near field
problem when calculating HF limits, IEEE C95.1 1991 says in a 'note'
to the tables for controlled and uncontrolled that the MPE is the rms
E and H limits given in the tables. Thus, IEEE C95.1 1991 essentially
tells you to use the far field values. In the case of your isotropic
example that uses 100W ERP, E= 1842/f or 61.4V/m and H=16.3/f or
54A/m for controlled exposures. This yields a radius of .89m for E
and .27m for H (whether near or far field). For uncontrolled, E
=823.8/f=27.46 V/m and H=the same as for contolled = .54A/m.
This yields radii of 2m for E field in uncontrolled and the same .27m
for H in uncontrolled.

Note that when doing the power density calculation, f**2 should be
used, not "f". When calculating power density for the 3-30MHz range,
the power density is the same E field 1mW/cm**2 mentioned on the ARRL
website. The H field power density limit is 10000/f**2 or
11.11mW/cm**2 for controlled and uncontrolled. You will obtain the
same radii for E and H using the "S" for E and H (power densities)
column as you do when using the E and H field columns in all cases.

Using the isotropic antenna at 100W ERP, the standard tells you to
stay .89m away from the isotropic antenna in controlled environments
and 2m away from uncontrolled environments. With a real dipole type of
antenna, the hotspots will be the feedpoint (H field) and the
endpoints (E field). Theoreticaly, the distances should not exceed the
worse case example of the isotropic antenna. When adjusting for 1000W
ERP, the radii do not increase by 10 because it is a SQRT
relationship, so the distances are not as high as one might initially
think.

Although the calculation is easiest to make on an isotropic antenna,
I have not been able to find or build a good one ;)

73

KR4AJ



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:37 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 450 olm ladder line
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 05:14:29 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
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   "DR. DAVE" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I want to try to make a antenna from 450 olm ladder line.
>Useing 120 ft. and shorted on each end. In the middle split it
>and install a 4:1 Balun and feed it with RG-8. Has anyone tried
>this antenna? Is it not known as a folded dipole? Its mostly for
>recieve on 75-80 meters. Will this antenna cover a wide band say
>3.5 to 4 mhz. with a antenna tuner?  Before I build it and climb
>a 80 ft pine tree I would like a little feedback. That pine bark
>is hard on the old hillbilly's belly.

Personally, I think this is way too much trouble for a receive
antenna.  My suggestion would be to put up two pieces of wire
and connect the cheapest RG-58 you can find.  Forget about the
ladder line, the balun and the tuner.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:41 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: 28 Aug 1996 05:54:07 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <4vuacv$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>One more thing.  I cannot find any mention of fields or
>currents passing through the shield in "Reflections."  In
>describing the operation of baluns, Maxwell solely credits
>"spill over" as the cause of outer shield currents.  I have
>to ask if you believe Maxwell is wrong on this issue, or
>whether he was merely simplifyig for the benefit of less
>astute readers?  Or perhaps there was another reason for his
>choice of explanation?  I'm only asking because I know that
>you and I both respect the theories presented in that work.
>
>73,
>Jack  WB3U

Hi Jack,

First of all, let me say I agree fields can not penetrate a conductor very
much thicker than the skin depth. The center conductor certainly can not
radiate a magnetic field through the shield. The outside of the shield has
to have the equivalent of the center conductor's current on it flowing in
the same direction, or the external field wouldn't exist.

I'm just having a hard time applying the picture of current going to the
end, spilling over, going all the way to the other end, and spilling over
again to some real world systems.

Tell me if this is true. I connect a cable from my 2 MHz transmitter to a
load. I connect the center conductor to the load, and connect the shield
of the load back one foot from the end of the shield. There are almost no
standing waves.

Will the shield dissipate twice the power per unit length between the load
connection point and the open end as it does along the rest of the cable?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:42 1996
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From: "John Sandor" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.pirate,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy
Subject: Re: Thinking of purchasing a handheld scanner
Date: 28 Aug 1996 06:04:41 GMT
Organization: OneNet Communications HUB News Server
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <01bb94a6$cc6d0780$14d070ce@default>
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The Pro-39 is another excellent scanner that can be unblocked for cell.
The mod is more difficult on the Pro-39 than on Bearcats, but the sound
quality is much better.



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:45 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:00:21 -0700
Organization: none
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W8JI Tom wrote:
>

> The center conductor certainly can not
> radiate a magnetic field through the shield. The outside of the shield has
> to have the equivalent of the center conductor's current on it flowing in
> the same direction, or the external field wouldn't exist.

Not true, Tom. If there is no current flow in the shield the mag flux can
go right on through. The permeability of copper is the same as that of
free space. Kraus "Electromagnetics" Fourth Edition Page 330.

I have just a few minutes ago performed the following experiment:

1) Connect a 3 foot length of coax to the output of a sig gen at 10 MHz.

2) At the far end, connect the center lead to a 50 Ohm resistor to
ground. Do not ground the braid at the far end.

3) Place a clamp-on RF ammeter around the coax.

4) A 50 mA current was measured.

5) Now ground the load end of the braid.

6) The current reading goes to zero, or so close I cannot read anything.

Conclusion: if no current path exists for the braid the mag field
generated by the center lead goes through the shield like a knife through
hot butter. When a return current path exists in the braid the external
field goes to zero. This is what we have always known.

The idea that an opposite current flows inside the braid and then around
the outside is *NONSENSE*.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:46 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Radiomatt)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Distance
Date: 28 Aug 1996 07:04:30 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I'd add to the list of factors:

propagation characteristics
antenna efficiency for both sides
receiver sensitivity
transmit power
type of modulation
time of day
time of year
sunspot count
antenna directivity
interference (nothing to do with getting the signal to the receiver, but
important to extracvting information)
bandwidth of signal

many of the above are freq. dependent


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:47 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!murphy2.servtech.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Robert G. Strickland)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gem Quad
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: ServiceTech, Inc.
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[e-mail] (Sir Barry Duxbury) wrote:

>I have bought a 20/15/10 2 ele Gem and about to install it. Any
>comments from users on the antenna would be appreciated
>73  Barry(G4GAH)--
> Barry Duxbury
>[e-mail]
>100031.2223@compuserve
>G4GAH Oxford UK

Don't know about the Gem quad, but having used a 2el quad for three
years, I can assure you that you will be pleased with its performance.
Best antenna for the space/bucks you can put up. Have fun!
...Robert





From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:47 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:35:27 -0700
Organization: none
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vs3t5$[e-mail]>
         <4vtqhh$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
         <4vvj4j$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <n1pRUDAtZDJyEwu$@ifwtech.demon.co.uk>
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Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
>
> So now I've managed to upset two of the professional engineers whom I
> most respect. I apologize; that was not my intention.

Fear not, Ian.  We all still love you like a brother. Hi!! The Queen Mum
has been turned off.

> But the point remains, that radio amateurs are liable to pick up their
> engineering know-how in bits and pieces, and then come unstuck because
> of a lack of understanding about the underlying principles.

Yes, that is true. One problem in this forum is that some of the bits and
pieces are square pegs trying to be jammed into round holes.

Bill W0IYH


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:48 1996
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.pirate,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy
Subject: Re: Looking for a mailorder outfit to purchase a handheld scanner
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:37:09 -0500
Organization: T-Gill Fuels, Inc.
Lines: 6
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To: Douglas Alexander <[e-mail]>
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Douglas Alexander wrote:
>
> Looking for a good mailorder firm to purchase a handheld scanner from:
>

http://www.demon.co.uk/javiation/


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:49 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Extended Double Zepp
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:46:24 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 18
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> ...a single cap placed at
> the proper point across the ladder-line, will result in a
> purely resistive 50 ohms into a choke balun and coax.

One can also use this method to measure antenna impedance.
One knows (or can measure) the exact capacitance value
of the cap. One knows the exact physical location of the cap.
One knows (or can measure) the exact velocity factor of the
ladder-line, and one knows (or can measure) the exact distance
from the cap to the antenna. Especially on the lower bands,
this should yield relatively accurate antenna impedances.

A little off the subject - EZNEC says that if one clips a
0.0017uf cap in parallel with the 300ohm line 25.5ft from
the 102ft dipole section of a standard G5RV, it will drop
the SWR on the coax well below 2:1 at 3.8MHz.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:50 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL ANTENNAS
Date: 28 Aug 1996 11:00:13 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 14
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In article <5013sv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (LScottH)
writes:

>
>There's a fractal aticle in the September issue of "73 Amateur Radio
>Today."
>"FRACVERT: Small Fractal Footprint Vertical" is the title.
>Check the local library if you don't have a subscription.

Heaven help us. Scott, I don't have get 73 because it has such poor
technical editing. I surely hope they don't say fractal radials are a way
to fit efficient radials in a small physical are!

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:51 1996
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From: [e-mail] (JP Wine)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 28 Aug 96 11:50:29 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


Could you tell me if you hold mailing lists?
J.P.



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:52 1996
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From: Ted Alexander <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video.satellite.europe,rec.video.satellite.misc,rec.video.satellite.tvro
Subject: Re: SAMS Needs Your Electronics URLs
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:26:38 -0400
Organization: Oracle Canada
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4varvc$[e-mail]> <4vcg3p$[e-mail]> <321a927c.1695915@206.13.95.227> <[e-mail]> <4vk6r5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Kenneth E. Harker wrote:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tim
> Gerchmez) wrote:
>
> > On 23 Aug 1996 12:05:57 GMT, Phil Wakely <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > >[e-mail] (Tim Gerchmez) wrote:
> > >>On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:46:16 GMT, [e-mail] (Gregg) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh ernyyl bhtug gb trg bhg zber
> > >>>
> > >>>Url!  Jung xvaq bs n penpx vf gung?  :-D
> > >>
> > >>Urururur.. V gubhtug EBG13 jnf bhg bs qngr.. guvf vf gur svefg gvzr
> > >>V'ir frra vg hfrq va dhvgr n juvyr ;)
> > >>
> > >
> > >Jung vf/jnf EBG13 ??
> > >
> >
> > Tvira gung lbh rapbqrq gur nobir, lbh onfvpnyyl nyernql xabj jung vg
> > vf.  Vg'f n fvzcyr Hfrarg rapbqvat zrgubq (sbetbg jurer vg bevtvangrq,
> > fbzrbar ryfr pbhyq cebonoyl gryy lbh).  V unqa'g rire frra vg hfrq
> > orsber hagvy guvf guernq fgnegrq.  Zl arjfernqre (Ntrag .99S) vapyhqrf
> > n EBG13 rapbqre/qrpbqre, fb V'z abg qbvat guvf ol unaq ;)
>
> Gur svefg checbfr V rire fnj EBG-13 hfrq sbe (onpx va 1991 be gurernobhgf)
> jnf gb uvqr rvgure gur chapuyvar bs be na ragver wbxr gung jnf cbgragvnyyl
> bssrafvir be bs n evfdhr angher, cercraqrq jvgu n pyrnegrkg qvfpynvzre, fb
> nf gb nyybj gur vaqvivqhny ernqre gur bcgvba bs jurgure be abg gb ivrj gur
> zngrevny.  V'z fher gurer ner bgure tbbq ernfbaf sbe vg nf jryy.
>
> Nf gb jurer vg bevtvangrq, vg'f n irel fvzcyr Pnrfne pvcure gung'f orra
> nebhaq n ybat juvyr (fvapr ng yrnfg gur qnlf bs Whyvhf Pnrfne) - lbh whfg
> fuvsg rirel yrggre 13 fcnprf va gur nycunorg (jenccvat nebhaq nf
> arprffnel.)  V'z abg pregnva jung "EBG" zrnaf be jurer vg pnzr sebz,
> gubhtu.
>
ROT-13 =>  ROTate 13


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:55 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL ANTENNAS
Date: 28 Aug 1996 12:27:02 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 39
Sender: [e-mail]
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References: <4vuvbt$[e-mail]>
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In article <4vuvbt$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Radiomatt) writes:

>A fractal is a sort of way of getting apparent length from small physical
>length.

So is a coil, or a stub.

>For example a FRACTAL "CIRCLE" has a great circumference but without a
big
>increase in area, this is because you're constantly putting in smaller
and
>smaller little offshoots which add length but are compressed. maybe a
>slinky was fractal.

>anyway my question is whether this could be used in reducing the length
of
>longwires or beverage antennas?

Sure it could, just as much as coil or stub loading could. Slowing the
velocity of propagation in a longwire does (within limits) increase the
directivity. It has been done with inductors, ferrite materials, and even
dielectric coatings....so there is no reason it couldn't be done with
hundreds of little bends.

If longwire length from end to end is 250 feet, and you "fractal up" the
wire and put 1000 feet of wire in the same space, the system will have a
loss resistance OVER the amount of 1000 feet of wire. The antenna won't
"pull in" any more signal than a straight wire loaded periodically with
lumped inductors.

The slower velocity of propagation will increase directivity, but the same
thing could be done with inductors, stubs, ferrite coatings, dielectrics,
or a "slinky"  type winding.

If it were my system, I think I'd just use lumped inductors every 1/8 wl
or so. It's be easier to build and adjust.

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:57 1996
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From: "Ian White, G3SEK" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:07:09 +0100
Organization: IFW Technical Services
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <n1pRUDAtZDJyEwu$@ifwtech.demon.co.uk>
References: <4vs3t5$[e-mail]>
 <4vtqhh$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <4vvj4j$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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So now I've managed to upset two of the professional engineers whom I
most respect. I apologize; that was not my intention.

But the point remains, that radio amateurs are liable to pick up their
engineering know-how in bits and pieces, and then come unstuck because
of a lack of understanding about the underlying principles.

I know; I've done it!  In my profession it's a serious occupational
hazard.

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - world-wide.


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:58 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!csra4.csranet.com!usenet
From: Hal Rosser <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Suggestions for a Horizontal/Vertical Polarized Quad?
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:21:02 -0700
Organization: CSRA Internet Services
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vin6h$[e-mail]>
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Hi Mike,
  2 small dc relays should do the trick for you.. one on the side and one
on the bottom. use 3PDT or 4PDT.  unergized should be your normal use,
and energized the other way... If you normally operate vertical,
the unenergized relay would open the loop at the side and feed the coax
simultaneously.and at the bottom, the other relay would be disconnecting
the coax and shorting the loop...
 to change polarity, energize both relays so "Normal
open contacts will close, and normally closed contacts will open.
 I designed the layout, but my wife made me take the quad down before
I had a chance to try it out.
--
Later,
Hal KT4QE
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:59 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dan Richardson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radial Question
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:54:32 GMT
Organization: LPS Systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <501me2$[e-mail]>
References: <4vn1if$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: an1-men-a11.mcn.org
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Avatar <[e-mail]> wrote:

[Snip]


>This info doesn't answer your question, but it might be helpful to you
>and others.

>I read a study some years ago (don't recall source now) that resulted
>from some experiments. In essence it was found that a large number of
>radials shorter than 1/4 lambda was better than a few long radials. The
>result proves that the current flow from the vertical decreases as
>distance is increased from the base.

>Regards,
>W0MAY

Thanks, I am aware of that. I have a copy of report made by Palmer A.
Greer to the National Association of Broadcaster in 1972 which gives
that information.

Additionally, it is also presented in the ARRL's Antenna Book.

Thanks,

Danny, K6MHE







From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:42:59 1996
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From: Bill Levey <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Subject: Re: Fiberglass rods
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:37:44 -0500
Organization: bro.net Internet Marketing
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup57.scott.net
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Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23931 rec.radio.swap:72072

Siegfried Rambaum wrote:
>
> Does anyone know a good mail order supplier for fiberglass rods of the
> type needed for cubical quads? And for those hard to find parts that
> connect the rods to the boom? I don't know, what those might be called (I
> am German, only in the USA since a few months and have not yet picked up
> all the words needed for sensible shopping in hardware stores)...

--> http://bro.net/aae/fiber.html

Bandmaster Fiberglass

73/DX!

Bill - WA4FAT


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:01 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com!tomb
From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Counterpoise vs. Radials?
Date: 28 Aug 1996 17:16:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Corvallis Site
Lines: 36
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <501uub$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsnb.lsid.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4]

KI4RO John ([e-mail]) wrote:

(re: counterpoise vs radials)
: What's the difference?  A friend asked me and I couldn't answer him.

Hmm.  Try a dictionary??  ;-)

A counterpoise (in antennas) is any structure against which an antenna is
fed.  It could be radials, bed springs, a pie tin, a car body...  I would
tend to not think of radials on the ground or buried as a "counterpoise",
however; I tend to think of a counterpoise as elevated above ground, but
in fact, you can consider ground itself to be a counterpoise.  See the
dictionary definition of "counterpoise."  I would expect in an antenna
system using a counterpoise that at the feedpoint, the current into the
"counterpoise" part would be equal in magnitude and 180 degrees out of
phase with the current into the "antenna" part.  But ground would not be
considered a counterpoise in an antenna system with a center-fed dipole,
even though the dipole is above the ground and induces currents in the
ground below.

Radials are, by definition, wires that radiate out, generally in straight
lines, away from the base of an antenna.  They can be elevated (as in a
ground plane antenna) or on the ground or buried.

You can also have a system of conductors on the ground or buried just below
the surface which are not strictly radials, to improve ground conductivity
and reduce ground losses in the vicinity of the antenna.  The local 1MW
23kHz station does that; they have a dense grid of heavy copper wire and
screen near the antenna feedpoints, becoming less dense as you get further
away from the radiators.


--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:01 1996
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From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:50:38 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vu3do$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vvpco$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmoore.ch.intel.com
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W6KKT Jesse wrote:
> I will also try the
> capacitor at the 50 ohm point into a 1:1 then into the 1606 bridge.

Hi Jesse, I forgot to say that the single capacitor approach only works
for 300ohm SWRs greater than 6:1 and for 450ohm SWRs greater than 9:1
because otherwise, the two Smith chart circles do not intersect.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:02 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W6KKT Jesse)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedline impedance
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:02:20 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 37
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4vkc1h$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vu3do$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4vvpco$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/16.227

On 27 Aug 1996 21:30:00 GMT, [e-mail] (Cecil A.
Moore~) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
>W6KKT Jesse <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>When you short the
>>ends of the "Lizzard" (line section) and mutually couple it to a
>>transmission line you not only change the impedance of the "Lizzard"
>>but cause a change in impedance and velocity in the transmission line
>>where it is mutually coupled to the "Lizzard".
>
>Hi Jesse, are you thinking that I am trying to separate the forward
>wave from the reflected wave? I'm not trying to do that. I am simply
>trying to get a voltage proportional to the *total* current. The
>"impedance" of the Ladder-Lizard doesn't really matter. With a back-
>biased 1N34A in series, the "load" is extremely high impedance so
>the source impedance really doesn't matter. The circuit draws
>neglible power and therefore has very little effect. There is almost
>no reverse coupling because the current is very, very low. What you
>say is true for a terminated pickup loop but this one is essentially
>unterminated. The same current could be measured by wrapping a couple
>of turns of small wire around each leg of the transmission line and
>looking at it with a scope. Almost no effect.
>
>>I will try using a light bulb instead of the metering system for
>>simplicity.
>
>I tried that too. The power consumed is not neglible and *does*
>affect the readings. It shifts the ajoining current nodes. I'll
>loan you a Ladder-Lizard - 300 or 450 ohms?
>
>73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

Hi Cecil, you are right.  I will try it your way.  I will also try the
capacitor at the 50 ohm point into a 1:1 then into the 1606 bridge.
Thanks for the help.
73, Jesse, W6KKT


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:03 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!netnews.fast.net!news.fast.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (JAMES MCEWEN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Getting back issues of Ham-Ant Digest
Date: 28 Aug 96 20:28:23 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

     I am a few e-mail messages back from current postings, so if this
     has already been answered, sorry.

     The UCSD.EDU server which handles Ham-Ant, does not use standard
     newsgroup commands. Contact UCSD.EDU with the command HELP. There
     is no searchable index of postings or subjects for this
     newsgroup.  The following message, which is posted at the head of
     all Ham-Ant Digests is incorrect.

     > Archives of past issues of the Ham-Ant Digest are available
     > (by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory
     >"mailarchives/ham-ant".

     The current address for the past issues is:

          FTP.UCSD.EDU/archive/current/ham-ant

     I believe this mailing list (Ham-Ant) is reflected as a Usenet
     Newsgroup, Rec.Radio.Amateur.Antenna.  I do not know if the
     reflector has any indexes, but I don't think so.

     All above info is subject to correction by anyone with better
     data!

     Jim KA6TPR




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:04 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Adjusting Phased Arr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 21:59:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <5000qk$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 24

MS> Forrest, thanks for sharing the story. It was listening to Fred and
MS> work VKs longpath on 75 meters some 12 or 15 years ago that got me h
MS> on lowband DXing.

It was W2HCW, Arnold, who first showed that longpath
propagation was possible on 75M.  Nobody really believed
this until he did it, first with the VK6's and then later
all up and down the Pacific Rim.  Arnold has a terrific
location on the eastern shore of Long Island and his antenna
is at the edge of high cliff overlooking salt water.

It is a fascinating experience to hear those Pacific Rim
countries come in at sunset from inaudible to S9 and fade
out within a few minutes.  My first experience with this
was working 9M2DQ (another RIP, unfortunately) breaking
him working a fellow in Hongkong!

MS> By the way, Dennis Mitchell (K8UR) named the company ComTek and
MS> subsequently sold it to Jim Miller (KB4HK).  Jim continues to refine

Thanks for this info.  Is Dennis still in New England?
//
  Forrest k2bt
 * RM 1.3 02583 * OS/2: too powerful to be Windows, too easy to be Unix


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:06 1996
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From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 01:35:29 GMT
Organization: Not Enough
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <502sed$[e-mail]>
References: <4vs3t5$[e-mail]> <4vtqhh$[e-mail]> <4vuacv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

It seems to me that one more aspect of this argument is
being overlooked.

To reiterate the issues, one position (to which I subscribe)
says that fields cannot escape through the shield, therefore
inner currents will always be equal and opposite.

The other position says that some type of field (there doesn't
seem to be a consensus) will indeed penetrate the shield,
unbalancing the inner currents and inducing current on the
outer shield.  Using this scenario, it is also stated that a
ferrite bead balun does its job by containing the fields at
the load end of the line, forcing inner currents into balance.

Now, if this is true, I would like to know how a 1/4 wave
stub, connected between the center conductor (at the load) and
the shield (1/4 wave below the load) can force balance.  Such
a device does absolutely nothing to prevent fields from
penetrating the shield of the coax.  In addition, because
it is not even connected to the shield until a point 1/4 wave
below the antenna, fields should remain free to escape through
the shield over that entire length.

Please, can someone on the other side of this argument tell
me how such a device contains those pesky fields?

73,
Jack  WB3U


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:06 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help with loop antenna design"
Date: 29 Aug 96 04:27:08 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "with" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:07 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!metro.atlanta.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!gater3.sematech.org!pulitzer.eng.sematech.org!usenet
From: First Last <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Does B&W /  Air Dux still make coils?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 06:56:01 -0700
Organization: SEMATECH, Austin
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <5037h1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pendleym.dhcp.sematech.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
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zommbee wrote:
>
> I am wondering if Barker and Williamson (B&W) still make their series
> of open-air coils (miniductor, I think they were), and the
> series called 'Air Dux'?  I know I was able to find them as late
> as 1980, but haven't been looking since.  Great for homebrewing.
>
> If anyone can help, please email.  Also, if you have any of the above
> coils laying around you'd like to get rid of, maybe we could make a
> deal.
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.
>
> 73's
>
> Dave WB7AWK
> [e-mail]
>
> 'Back in after 12 years out'Dave,
     Yes they do, but They don't stock them any more.  What that means is
there is a set up charge to make the coils.  I can't recall, but I think
is about $25 or so.  You can call them an get a catalog.  Several of the
suppliers may still have stock.

good luck
73
Michael
WA5VTV


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:09 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!dg198
From: [e-mail] (Frank Sved)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best antenna for 80m at home?
Date: 29 Aug 1996 13:26:35 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 23
Sender: [e-mail] (Frank Sved)
Message-ID: <5045qb$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Frank Sved)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet6.carleton.ca


Hi, I'd like to setup an 80m antenna at my house.  I've used two 75'long
copper antenna wire from RS as a dipole  matched with a 1:1 balun fed by
coax (rg8u).

I've got a Dentron tuner and Drake TR4.  At my new house, I'd like to
install something that performs as well.  Any ideas?  I've been told to
wind a loop, use folded dipole, A verticle, G5RV, Slopers.

My house has two chimmney's 50' apart and a big tree that forms in the
back yard away 40' from the chimmney.  Tree is 40'tall.

I just have my 5wpm endorsement and can only work 80m up.  That will
change soon but not yet.

Appreciate anyone who can give me suggestions.  Other than commercial
antennas because I like the hobby for building my stuff not always buying.
 I don't care if the parts cost, but I'd like to build.  Thanks in advance.

--


  Bye for now, Frank Sved (VE3GID) at [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:09 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!usenet.cisco.com!pchow
From: [e-mail] (Peter Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Subject: Re: Fiberglass rods
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Date: 29 Aug 1996 15:58:57 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <504eo1$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: polka.cisco.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: news2.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:23928 rec.radio.swap:72068

A while ago, someone put this on the net:

        MAX-GAIN Systems, Inc.
        221 Greencrest Court
        Marietta, GA 30068-3825
        770-973-6251

I copied this down and hope this is useful to you.


73,
KF6DLT

Siegfried Rambaum ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does anyone know a good mail order supplier for fiberglass rods of the
: type needed for cubical quads? And for those hard to find parts that
: connect the rods to the boom? I don't know, what those might be called (I
: am German, only in the USA since a few months and have not yet picked up
: all the words needed for sensible shopping in hardware stores)...




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:11 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx13-04
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 16:13:13 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <504fgk$[e-mail]>
References: <4vuacv$[e-mail]> <5014vv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <5022gp$[e-mail]> <502h9j$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx13-04.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

In article <502h9j$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

>I applaud Bill for actually thinking up experiments and making
>measurements to try to sort things out.
>
>I have a suggestion for an experiment that may be
>conclusive. Take the set up Bill described, with
>a signal generator, ground plane and coax with the
>shield open, and use the clamp on meter. As Bill
>says you measure a current and therefore a magnetic
>field. The argument is whether
>1. the magnetic field is zero inside the shield and is
>   therefore coming from the current on the outside of the shield
>or
>2. there is no current on either the outside or inside of the shield
>   and the magnetic field comes from the current on the center
>   conductor.
>
>I hope I have correctly described the second point of view.
>
>If you now put a bunch of ferrite beads on the shield, both
>points of view would say the magnetic field has to interact
>with these beads, and this will increase the impedance. Therefore
>both points of view should see a decrease in the current when
>you add the beads.
>
>If you now take aluminum foil and wrap the beads thoroughly and
>connect both ends of the foil to the coax shield, the view that
>there are no fields in the conductors would say that this is
>exactly like a thicker shield around the coax, and no
>magnetic field interacts with the ferrite beads. Therefore
>you should get a current measurement that is very similar to
>the original one, and exactly the same as if the shield were
>thicker where the ferrite beads are now covered.
>
>On the other hand, if you think the magnetic field penetrates through
>the shield of the coax to the beads, I think you would expect the same
>impedance as without the aluminum foil. Therefore unless I have
>misinterpreted the "fields can be in conductors" point of view, this
>experiment will tell them apart.
>
>73 Kevin [e-mail]

A great idea! Unfortunately, it may not be conclusive, either. You can
reduce the impedance of the beads to a low value just by making a shorted
turn with a piece of wire. The aluminum foil does this also.

I hope we can think up a way to demonstrate what's going on other than
building a piece of coax large enough in diameter to get inside. Please
keep trying, Kevin!

Roy Lewallen, W7EL



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:11 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FRACTAL ANTENNAS
Date: 29 Aug 1996 19:05:00 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <5057ms$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

'Scam'?
'Heaven help us?'

C'mon guys, this is flaming at full spectrum. Come up with some answerable
questions and I'll respond.

Chip
N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:12 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!tezcat!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news1.gte.net!usenet
From: "R. Eric Sluder" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Diamond V-2000A question
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:17:03 -0700
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Bill Frey wrote:
>
> I purchased a tribander Diamond V-2000A antenna over the weekend.
> I saw some radials in the package and a what they call counterpoise.
>
> I found 2 radials that fit in the bottom and are the groundplane but the
> other groundradial was not there. The counterpoise (fits in the other hole
> I presume) has a black coil type and an adjustable extension. There is no
> other place for the thing to fit so I suppose that's where it goes. I
> expected it to fit on the top but no such luck.
>
> Does it go on the bottom or did they fail to package it right?
> What does it do? Is it an adjustment for 6 meter band and if so, how does
> it work? I mean does the groundplane setting affect 6 meter operation?
>
> The 2 meter and 440 antenna connections have no adjustment possibilities so
> my prying fingers can't mess that up  :-)
>
> Anyone can help??????
> Thanks   de    KB8UNC


Bill,

The extra radial/counterpoise is for 6 meters.  It goes at the base of the ant
enna in the
threaded hole.  You use it to adjust the antenna SWR on the 6 meter band.  Wit
hout it, the
antenna will not perform properly.  It should adjust by loosing a set screw wi
th an allen
wrench.  Then slide the whip in (or out) of the black coil a little at a time
while checking
your SWR.  You'll soon find yourself making a few trips back in forth from the
 antenna to your
rig, but the SWR will come down to an acceptible level.  The antenna is pre-ad
justed at the
factory for 2 & 440, and you are not suppose (or is easy to) adjust it for tho
se bands.

I've owned one for three years now, and have enjoyed it tremendously.  It's a
very good
antenna, and has produced excellent results for a vertical.

Good luck, and I think you'll enjoy it.

73,

Eric Sluder, KB9BGS


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:14 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fred Colville)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap
Subject: Re: Fiberglass rods
Date: 29 Aug 1996 20:52:30 -0400
Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada.
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Hi;
        I used the new fibreglass tension rods from a fencing company and
        angle bracket from the hardware store.
        You know,....the bar that used to be metal at the ends of chain link
        fence,used to draw the fence tight.They are now made from glass!
        L8r

: Does anyone know a good mail order supplier for fiberglass rods of the
: type needed for cubical quads? And for those hard to find parts that
: connect the rods to the boom? I don't know, what those might be called (I
: am German, only in the USA since a few months and have not yet picked up
: all the words needed for sensible shopping in hardware stores)...




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:14 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Helis)
Subject: Re: apartment HF'ing
Message-ID: <81d7cc$16838.32f@NEWS>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 03:07:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] wrote:

>   Hello all. I was wondering what kind of creative solutions people
>have come up with for running hf indoors??? I can't put up anything
>outside. I have an MFJ Loop antenna, but this only covers 30Mhz to
>about 10 MHZ, and I like to run CW on 40 :)   A read an article once
>about using 2 fiberglass cb antennas and making a rotatable
>dipole....any suggestions :)
>

>  Thanx and 73   -de Aaron KG9EC

You mayalso want to try an MFJ 1621 54 inch whip.  Those load 40-10
meters.  They won't work like a dipole, but it will radiate a signal.
I've made CW contacts out to hundreds of miles with one.  Good luck!


73,

Jonathan Helis, KB5IAV
Baton Rouge, Lousiana, USA

[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:15 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Dean T. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/2 wave vertical question
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:42:48 GMT
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Hi Tony,

In article <5051d0$[e-mail]>, From
[e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE), the following was
written: > Will this antenna produce low angle radiation such as a
quarter wave  > will?
>
> Will this antenna be better/worse than a ground plane?
>
> Has anyone ever tried this?

You bet.  I used coax antennas on 10 and 15 a while back (in the 50's --
and am thinking of using them again).  On 10 I was able to do world wide
comm on AM with 10 watts (good sun spots <g>).

As I recall, I used 75 ohm coax but don't recall the dimensions of the
antennas nor the feedline length.  The antennas were aluminum tubing
with a plexiglas insert between the two, with the coax running up the
lower (larger diameter) tubing.

--
Dean T. Miller [e-mail]
08/29/96 22:45
---------
 -- Dean -- from Des Moines  ----  Using: OUI TE 1.5 from http://www.dvorak.co
m




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:17 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radial simulation
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 06:35:47 GMT
Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software
Lines: 65
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In article <504udn$[e-mail]>,
   [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist) wrote:
>There has been a considerable amount of discussion about elevated
>radials here, and one of the sticking points has been whether you
>can believe the NEC simulations.  From what I gather, NEC-2 isn't
>real good at this and you really need NEC-4 (I am assuming that
>mininec is a "forget-it").

Some people think NEC-2 does a good job, some think it doesn't. What
measured data there are, are subject to question for one reason or another,
so there's no really satisfactory proof for either contention, to the best
of my knowledge. NEC-2 and NEC-4 give essentially identical results for
radials at any height above 0.001 wavelength or so.

>A related question arises:  what if you want to simulate radials
>that are on the ground (*not* elevated)?  How well does NEC-2 do
>at this vs. NEC-4?  I have seen plots in books of vertical
>radiation patterns of 1/4 wave monopoles over various kinds of grounds
>(sea water, excellent, good, poor).  In these cases, the quality
>of ground is the same everywhere.  Of course, over anything but
>sea water, they radiate equally poorly in all directions as the
>saying goes.

I recall that it's recommended that wires not be placed precisely on the
ground even with NEC-4. However, unlike NEC-2, it can model wires below the
ground. The NEC-4 manual cautions that ". . .models for electrically small
screens have not been validated as well as for larger screens. Caution
should be exercised in modeling small screens, particularly in obtaining
values for small quantities such as input resistance." I've done some
comparison between NEC-4 and the data from Brown, Lewis, & Epstein's paper.
I can get a moderately good fit of the input resistance or of the field
strength they measured, but each requires a very different ground
conductivity.

>How hard would it be to simulate an ideal ground plane of finite
>extent; i.e. a conductive sheet of radius r surrounding the
>antenna?  Beyond r, you would specify ground quality, (good, poor,
>etc.)  The next step would be to attempt to determine how many
>radials comes within say 1 dB. of a perfect sheet.  In this case
>you would have to specify the underlieing ground (poor, good,
>whatever) and put in 100's of radials.  We know (perhaps) from
>LBE that 60 to 120 radials is enough for .4 wavelength, but maybe
>you need 1000 if you want to make them 2 wavelengths long.  There
>might be an issue of too many NEC segments.

Either NEC-2 or NEC-4 can simulate a high-conductivity disk for the
purposes of calculating ground reflection. Neither has a provision for
simulating a buried disk for the purposes of evaluating efficiency.

>Finally, it would be useful to examine what would happen if you
>covered less than 360 degrees with the radials.  Say they are
>2 wavelengths long over 90 degrees and 1/4 wave for the other
>270 degrees.  How does vertical pattern change with azimuth?
>The idea that the pattern is better in the direction of most of
>the radials has been debunked for short radials, but may still
>hold for long ones.

>Do I need to wait until I can get NEC-4 to do this or will NEC-2
>work?  Can any US citizen with $850 get NEC-4 just to use for
>ham radio, or does it have to be for govt work?

This would require NEC-4. Government affiliation isn't required for the
purchase of NEC-4.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:19 1996
Path: news2.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!itnews.sc.intel.com!news
From: Cecil Moore <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/2 wave vertical question
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:18:25 -0700
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ
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Tony Angerame - Sun SSE wrote:
> I recall at one poing ...

Hi Tony, is a poing at a node or at a loop? :-)

> Another alternative is the resonant feedline dipoles I have seen recently.

The majority of hams don't realize that any reasonable length of dipole can
be made to give a 50 ohm resonant point on a single frequency by using a tuned

feedline and a single parallel reactive component. For instance, a G5RV can be
converted to an optimized 3.8MHz antenna with an SWR of 1:1 on the coax by
shortening the 300ohm section to approximately 25.5ft and installing approxima
tely
a 0.0017uf parallel capacitor at that point, according to EZNEC.

We can optimize (no tuner required) a G5RV to 7.2MHz in three ways:
1. Cut the 300ohm section to 29.8ft and add a 1.3uh coil in parallel for 50 oh
m
SWR = 1:1  I call this the PL-50 point.
2. Cut the 300ohm section to 31.3ft for a 50 ohm SWR = 1.7:1
(fed at an Imax/current loop)
3. Cut the 300ohm section to 32.8ft and add a 380pf cap in parallel for 50 ohm

SWR = 1:1  I call this the PC-50 point.
This antenna will be so close to the efficiency of a halfwave dipole on 7.2MHz

that one can't tell the difference in operation.

A shortened dipole with a long ladder-line tuned feeder and a short piece of c
oax
would make a perfect single band backpack, QRP, or limited-space antenna.

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:21 1996
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From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL ANTENNAS
Date: 30 Aug 1996 11:54:26 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <506kb3$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Fractenna) writes:

>One last comment that you guys might find helpful.
>
>Dig out "Optimization of Wire Antennas " by Landstorfer and Sacher. The
>concerns you may have for fractal antennas (in general) apply to the
>antennas they discuss (in specific).
>
>Landstorfer was elected a Fellow of the IEEE last year, based on the work
>described in that text. That hams don't know about his work is a major
>failing of our hobby, and that failing extends to the kind of shoot from
>the hip, anecdotal criticism that a very few individuals feel compelled
to
>state.
>
>Its a new world--and we can't go back.

TOO BAD!

>73 Chip N1IR

Reading all this stuff Chip,  I find NOTHING that explains the "magic" of
a fractal shape when used as a radiator.

Perhaps, rather than refer me to one sided non-responsive texts, you can
explain exactly HOW a fractal shape does anything more than any other form
of linear or lumped loading. That's something missing from all the Fractal
articles.

For example, what advantages would be provided by using a fractal shape in
the loading system my eight foot mobile antenna on 40 meters? I hope you
can understand why I am so perplexed by claims of some "advantage", since
I understand the following to be true for short antennas:

1.) Maximum radiation effects occur when the largest number of charges are
accelerated and displaced over the maximum spacial distance. If I have an
antenna     ten feet long, or ten feet in radius, that is the maximum
spatial distance I can move the charges.

2.) Resistive losses increase linearly with physical conductor length in a
uniform current radiator.

How does folding up a conductor, which only increases resistive path
length and NOT radiation resistance (when measured by IRE standards),
improve efficiency over a lumped component?

73 Tom


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:21 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: "Alan Koblinski (W7XA)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Low noise antenna in QST
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I built the antenna and was very disappointed with the result.  In
fairness I built it with approximately 16' sides instead of the
approx.30 ft sides but the article suggested that it should work about
the same with a bit better signal to noise performance.
I built a matching network and was able to resonate the antenna OK and
convert its impedence to 50 ohm, but it never worked well.
I hope you all have better luck.
73, Al


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:23 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/2 wave vertical question
Date: 30 Aug 1996 16:30:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 44
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References: <[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mandalay.west.sun.com

Well thanks Dean for refreshing my memory. It was during this same period of t
ime that this antenna was popular. Both ten and six were wide open most anywhe
re. I'm thinking
of making one each for the bands above 20 meters as they open up. So far I've
had
good results with a sloping dipole or "Full Sloper" but I wanted to try someth
ing a
little different. Now I just need to work out the mechanical details. I recall
 at one
poing just 'Pulling back" the braid and using the center conductor of the coax
 as the
antenna and hanging it from a tree. Another alternative is the resonant feedli
ne di-
poles I have seen recently. Thanks for the reply.


                                          Tony

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Dean T. Miller) writes:
> Hi Tony,
>
> In article <5051d0$[e-mail]>, From
> [e-mail] (Tony Angerame - Sun SSE), the following was
> written: > Will this antenna produce low angle radiation such as a
> quarter wave  > will?
> >
> > Will this antenna be better/worse than a ground plane?
> >
> > Has anyone ever tried this?
>
> You bet.  I used coax antennas on 10 and 15 a while back (in the 50's --
> and am thinking of using them again).  On 10 I was able to do world wide
> comm on AM with 10 watts (good sun spots <g>).
>
> As I recall, I used 75 ohm coax but don't recall the dimensions of the
> antennas nor the feedline length.  The antennas were aluminum tubing
> with a plexiglas insert between the two, with the coax running up the
> lower (larger diameter) tubing.
>
> --
> Dean T. Miller [e-mail]
> 08/29/96 22:45
> ---------
>  -- Dean -- from Des Moines  ----  Using: OUI TE 1.5 from http://www.dvorak.
com
>
>







From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:24 1996
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From: Avatar <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: HELP: Antenna Tuner Design Needed
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:46:03 -0700
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
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Michael Neidich wrote:
>
> Need a schematic/parts list to build a receiving antenna
> tuner/preselector 10-25 MHz, mostly to reject interfering out of band
> signals.  Point me in the right direction if there is a good commercial
> unit, please.
> Mike

Any recommendation would be suspect without the advisor knowing more
about your setup.

1. Does your receiver have a 50 ohm or Hi-Z input?
2. What type of antenna and feedline are you using?
3. Are you adept at building electronics equipment?
4. How much are you willing to spend for a tuner?




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:24 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL ANTENNAS
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:57:56 -0700
Organization: none
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K1BQT wrote:
>
> However, from the tone of this forum so far, it
> appears that those among us without PhD's, IEEE speaker status, and
> big-shot Defense Contract connections are aparently relegated to an
> underclass species of unworthy drooling mouth-breathers.  Somehow, I was
> hoping for more than that.
>

Hi Rick Littlefield,

Welcome to the underworld of cellar-dwellers and fractal misfits.

Bill Sabin W0IYH


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:26 1996
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From: [e-mail] (K1BQT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FRACTAL ANTENNAS
Date: 30 Aug 1996 19:06:03 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 17
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <507s4r$[e-mail]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Hate to be critical, but it looks this particular thread is made of razor
wire.  I would like to see some user-freindly give-and-take about how and
why these antennas work--perhaps some simple dialog describing how voltage
and current distribute along the wire, or why this type of configuration
is advantegeous over a straght element.  Also, how might this concept be
applied to simple ham-band antennas mortals can build (last time I
checked, this was an "amateur" forum).

Personally, I don't have time to go digging through Landstorfer and
Sacher--and I probably wouldn't understand it even if read it (I make no
aplolgy for that).  However, from the tone of this forum so far, it
appears that those among us without PhD's, IEEE speaker status, and
big-shot Defense Contract connections are aparently relegated to an
underclass species of unworthy drooling mouth-breathers.  Somehow, I was
hoping for more than that.

Rick, K1BQT


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:26 1996
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From: David <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: help- 440 Mhz Twin lead Jpole
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:35:06 -0700
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 7
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I've had good luck building twin lead Jpoles for 2 M but the same design
for 70CM does not work at all. Dimension have been scaled, and SWR was
about 1.5:1. No Radiated power. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
de N9PVF
David




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:28 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MORE FRACTALS
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 01:04:27 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
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[e-mail] (Fractenna) wrote:

>TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS:

>1)Can you make a shorter Beverage with fractals? A: Yes
>2) Can you make a  shorter Beverage with oodles of little discrete
>components which are expensive and breakdown and require repair and spell
>poor quality control? A: Yes. [ Nice recommendation Tom!]
>3) Is that 'Mass company' selling  1900 MHz PCS antennas? A: No.
>4) Is this a 'scam'? A: You expect me to dignify that question with an
>answer?!
>5) Can you (as a ham)  buy a fractal antenna? A: No.
>6) Is anyone else buying them? A: Yes.

>When you guys stop treating me like some flaky village idiot I'll respond
>to your scientific queries. Also, I will NOT use a newsgroup as an
>infomercial.

>Chip N1IR


Good for you, stand your ground!  I was wondering when someone was
going to get around to applying fractal mathematics to antenna design!

It works for graphic constructs and file/image compression, why not
antennas?

Steve
WB7PSD



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:29 1996
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From: "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BALUN necessary for a dipole
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 03:48:59 -0700
Organization: none
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WB3U wrote:
>
>    "William E. Sabin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >In this aluminum/copper magnetic shield, the eddy currents
> >require a "shorted turn" to do their dirty work.  It is the
> >current (eddy current) in the shorted turn that provides the
> >counter flux that reduces the interfering flux. This idea is
> >from Terman's several editions of "Radio Engineering" for
> >example the 1955 edition, pages 35-37.
>
> Because the shield is continuous, it is (in effect) a series
> of many shorted turns, all stacked together on a common axis.
>
> 73,
> Jack  WB3U

This I agree with, Jack. Terman describes it that way.

Bill


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:29 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RE: ELNEC, EZNEC
Date: 31 Aug 1996 13:22:11 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
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Message-ID: <509sc3$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fractenna)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

ELNEC and EZNEC are excellently intrerfaced versions of MININEC and NEC2
wires, respectively. The I/O and graphics interfaces are superb.

Roy Lewallen (W7EL) is the only source for both programs (and he has
something called EZNEC-M for bigger jobs). Call him for prices, etc:

503-646-2885(voice)
503-671-9046 (FAX)
[e-mail] (e-mail)

cHEERS
Chip N1IR


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:30 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Hardline connectors needed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 13:54:29 GMT
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[e-mail] (Bob White) wrote:

>I have about 150 ft. of Prodelin 31-890 that I need connectors for.
>I think that Cablewave bought out Prodelin's cable & point to point
>antenna division in 1983, but maybe some one still has a couple
>connectors in the shack.   I  hope so !       Thanks

We have some Prodelin connectors in stock. Can't cross the # 31-890.
Does the cable have a name? Size & type?



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:33 1996
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From: [e-mail] (THamm40820)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 1/2 wave vertical question
Date: 31 Aug 1996 20:08:57 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi Tony,

   This may be somewhat away from the general focus of your question
regarding coaxial antennas, but I thought I'd throw it in for whatever
it's worth.
   I also like the idea of vertical antennas, because (1) they have the
reputation of being better for long distance QSO's than horizontal
dipoles.  Also: (2) I needed to be wary of neighbors, (3) I wanted to work
as many of the HF bands as possible with only one antenna, and (4) my yard
is small and oddly shaped.  So I decided on a verticle dipole.  I used two
30 foot sections of wire as follows: the top is 42 feet high, drops
straight down 30 feet and is fed at about 12 feet.  The other 30 foot
section slopes outward from the feedpoint at 12 feet to the top of a 5
foot wood fence, not really vertical, but about as close as I could get to
it without going to jail.  I use 450 ohm ladder line from the balanced
output from an MFJ QRP tuner.  With this antenna, I am able to tune all
bands 160 - 10 meters.  Roy Lewallen's EZNEC shows the "output" to be down
about 6 dBi on 160, but up about 6 dBi on 10 meters.  Although I work 100%
QRP, RST reports are essentially identical on both ends.  For a while, I
also considered putting up a separate antenna for each band, but I'm so
pleased with this one that I'm hesitant to mess with it.  It's only real
drawback is that it's noisy.
Anyway, have fun and good luck !!

Best 73's,
Tommy
KI7KH


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:34 1996
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From: Mark Fossum <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Beverage Antennas
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 20:56:16 -0500
Organization: Netcom
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I'm looking for a good book on lowband Beverage antennas. Anyone have
any suggestions?

Mark Fossum  N0NSV

[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Mon Sep 02 06:43:36 1996
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From: [e-mail] (Brett Coningham)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gem Quad
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:31:14 GMT
Organization: Southwest Cyberport
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>[e-mail] (Sir Barry Duxbury) wrote:

>>I have bought a 20/15/10 2 ele Gem and about to install it. Any
>>comments from users on the antenna would be appreciated
>>73  Barry(G4GAH)--
>> Barry Duxbury
>>[e-mail]
>>100031.2223@compuserve
>>G4GAH Oxford UK

I used to have a two-element Gem Quad, which lasted for nine years
until a 105mph wind blast finally broke one of the very strong arms.
Overall, I was very happy with this antenna, and during a period when
I was a DX-er, was able to work 310 countries with it.  In comparisons
with a neighbor who ran a 52-ft five-element 20m monobander,  at 70ft,
my quad at 55ft usually performed just about as well in the DX
pileups.  I know there were times when I could hear weak signals
that he couldn't, and vice-versa.

I had to make a few modifications over the years, though, as follows.
(1)  After a couple of years of our usual high wind seasons, the wire
      stretched so much that the tuning of the antenna was out of
      whack.  Another ham buddy and I went in together and bought
      a bunch of 1/16th-inch Copperweld wire, and I re-strung the
      antenna with it.  It never stretched out of spec again.

(2) The Nylon ties that originally held the wires to the spreaders all
     disintegrated in the Sun, and I replaced these with 14-guage
     copper wire, strung through the holes in the spreaders, and
     wrapped around the antenna wire on both sides of the spreader.
     This held the wires with no further trouble.

(3) The original Balun idea worked pretty well, but after replacing
     the wire with Copperweld wire, I could never get it tuned again
     using the original Balun.  I ended up using 1/4-wave matching
     sections of 75-ohm coax for each band, which converted the
     nearly 100-ohm impedance down to about 50 ohms.  SWR
     was less than 1.5:1 across all three bands, and tuning the
     Front-to-back became very easy with the shorting stubs.

After the quad broke, I tried a Hygain 204BA monobander, but
never was happy with it.  Probably it wasn't high enough at 55ft.
After the DX-bands became such a zoo of bad manners and
list-takers, I gave up DX-ing and didn't replace the Gem quad,
but if I ever get interested in HF again, I'd sure consider having
another.

One thing I noticed was that it would pick up static electricity
like you wouldn't believe.  Whenever the wind would blow, I'd
disconnect if from the radio, and you could see sparks jump across the
inner and outer parts of the coax connector!

I think you will like the antenna, but be prepared to spend some
time to get it tuned properly (a characteristic of all quads).
Tuning the F-B is easier if you have a couple of helpers, one
down in the shack to rotate the antenna, one across town to
give you a test signal, and yourself up at the antenna to
adjust the shorting stubs.

73

Brett