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Path: news.uni-c.dk!www.nrg.dtu.dk
From: Jan.Lund.Thomsen@p11.f128.n238.z2.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Vic20 archiving project update
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 02:10:17
Organization: News Server at UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research
and Education.
Message-ID: <306647c9-nntpgate@nrg.dtu.dk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: www.nrg.dtu.dk
MSGID: 2:238/128.11 3062f948
CHRS: IBMPC 2
[ 21 Sep 95: WardShrake: ]
(Disclaimer: Please notice that none of the following is meant as harsh at
it might seem. Now back to our regulary scheduled programme:)
> Third most important: No, I can't give anyone images or anything else
> that might violate someone's legal right to copyright protection. Please
> don't ask me to.
I'm really *trying* to respect that statement, but I can't.
A guy like you comes forward and says something like "Hello! I'm in the
process of creating an archive of software for that great machine of
yesteryear: the Commodore VIC-20. So that people can look at the games,
play the games, and realise what a great machine this was. No! You can't
really have any of it, but it will be available for the public. Just
thought
you'd like to know."
> This is the thorniest thing of all to decide, and although I love
> Commodore computers, and like the Vic20 quite a bit lately, no
> rationalization or justification I could come up with could convince my
> conscience that stealing someone's stuff was right. I write software
> myself, and occasionally magazine articles and such, and I'd be a
> hypocrite to do otherwise.
I respect that. But then why did you come up with the idea in the first
place? Surely you could not believe, deep down, that the companies would
just go "Yeah, sure we'll ignore our copyrights and let you redistribute
programs for a computer that died years ago."
The world just doesn't work that way.
> I know I'm going to make some people mad by dropping the project at this
> point, but my own internal guilt-senser just won't let me do anything
> illegal about this. If some effort to archive things, above-board and
> with the proper legal OK's came along, I'd jump on the bandwagon. I'd
> love to help. But I debated and debated the ethics involved, and found
> out I just don't have the heart to do something illegal.
> Everything I have done so far, was / is perfectly legal. I just didn't
> have the heart myself, to do the next steps, which would have been
> illegal for me to do. I did some heavy thinking, and decided that I
> wasn't willing to cross that fine line, myself.
I still think it was 'wrong' of you to come up with the idea in the first
place, if the "legal problems" really is that much of a hurdle to you.
You must have realised that you would have to violate the rights of a few
people in order to make things happier for the majority.
> However, guys, look at the bright side of this .... I did quite a bit,
> before I stopped. The project is rolling more than you might think, even
> if I step away from it now.
> First of all, I did some perfectly legal research. I came up with a
> long, healthy list of cartridges which were made for the Vic20. (The
> only
> lists that existed before, were about half the size of my eventual list.
> But I do appreciate the work others did before me; don't get me wrong
> here! Credit where it is due, I always say.)
> I'll be uploading that list publicly, before long, and you all can see
> what's available for that Vic20 machine.
I would recommend ftp.funet.fi /pub/cbm/vic20
> Secondly, my efforts paid off in getting some interest built up in the
> Vic20. Hell, it wasn't too long ago that people were downright
> embarrassed, it seemed, to even *admit* they owned Vic20 cartridges!
The VIC20 was my first computer. Got it back when I was 12 years old (I'm
25 now). I wouldn't say that this baby taught me everything, but it sure
taught me a lot.
Furthermore it's kind of funny to see what's happened with the 64 and the
PC's: people are proud to be using 64's even though the kid down the block
has got much more power in his Pentium 100/16Mb RAM/Quad-spin/SB16 machine.
Back when the 64 got popular, I was still using my VIC. And pretty darn
proud of it too. In fact, back then we had the same view of the 64 as the
people here on c.s.c. has of the PC today.
> Thirdly, I did show that archiving cartridges could be done,
> technically. It is definitely possible to copy a cartridge from ROM
> memory to a floppy disk or tape drive, and run the resulting image in a
> RAM expander. Just knowing how to do this isn't illegal by itself.
I know that trick. Even had a custombuilt motherboard that could switch
my (homebuilt) RAM into the ROM cartridge area so I could use the images.
> However, distributing the copied cartridges is illegal, and that's where
> I stopped.
Offcourse it's illegal. But that doesn't stop people, does it?
Take the 64 emulator for example: it comes bundled with games, and loads
are available for public download. The same goes for that "JPP" Spectrum
emulator. In my opinion the spreading of "the word" is far more important
than the copyright notices of companies long gone.
Yes, I know I'm in the fuzzy grey area between right and wrong here. But I
can live with that.
> You have to realize that companies want to know if there's a market for
> these sort of things; classic game re-issues are a hot item nowadays.
> But no company is going to cut its throat to please a bunch of people
> they consider to be thieves; this is one major reason I decided to
> behave, myself, and act properly. No one told me I had to, and maybe no
> one would have prosecuted had I made images available to the public.
> However, it would set a bad example, and I didn't want to do that. Maybe
> some company can do us all a favor by doing this legally, and I want to
> help them help all of us, in any way I can.
A noble thought indeed.
Too bad it won't ever happen. No company is going to forfeit its copyrights
on anything, no matter how old and obsolete this "anything" may be.
> Sorry, but that's it for me, and someone else will have to take over
> from where I left off. I did a lot. I want to do more, but that darned
> legal / conscience barrier stopped me. I decided that I personally am
> not
> willing to cross that line, without the barriers being removed by the
> proper authorities.
I don't believe that will ever happen. But I won't let it stop me.
Contributions, be they either actual cartridges, cartridge-images or
ftp/web space for the project will be appreciated.
Obviously your conscience won't let you contribute anything but that's ok
as that same conscience will keep you from downloading anything from the
archive.
If people don't want to contribute to something, it's their descission and
I respect that descission... as long as they don't want to take advantage
of the people providing that "something". On the other hand, if people
*can't* contribute anything they can still use that "something" as their
intentions are good.
> Hope this all doesn't sound too grouchy or mean. I don't intend for it
> to.
That's okay. No offence taken.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan Lund Thomsen (aka Qed/Triangle 3532) Lystrup,
Denmark
C64/RPG/INWO/Warner Bros/Disney/Furry/Comics-addict and all-around nice
guy.
---------- Email: kwed@oku.ping.dk ----------- Fido: 2:238/128.11
----------
--- Spot 1.3a #374
* Origin: "What is it?" "It is... it is... it is green." (2:238/128.11)