Columbia Kermit/kermit.zip/newsgroups/misc.19941004-19941031

Text File | 2020-01-01 | 1MB | 22,004 lines

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 17:41:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26039
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:32:39 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02229
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:32:38 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: "Fun" Kermit scripts?
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:41:27 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Has anybody devised any "fun" Kermit scripts?

Things to answer questions, simulate an ftp site, such like that?

I know it's got to be possible (while perhaps no "real" FTP on MS-DOS, at
least look and feel like FTP, and then offer Kermit to download the file(s)
with)

Comments?


Ken
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 20:15:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26069
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:33:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02247
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:33:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!cpcug!gerhard
From: [e-mail] (Gerhard Postpischil)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Windows Modem setup
Date: 4 Oct 1994 20:15:39 GMT
Organization: Capital PC User Group Rockville, MD USA
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <36sd5b$[e-mail]>
References: <360h05$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cpcug.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Edmond Siu ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Does anybody know what line I have to add to system.ini or win.ini for windows inorder to use com port 4? because if I run telix in windows on com 4. the computer crashes.. There is a special line I'm suppose to add to it inorder to make windows accept
communication on com port 4.

I'm not sure of the text you'd need to add to the .INI files, but have
you tried defining the port explicitly?  If you go to the Setup, then
Comm(serial?) ports, then Advanced Setup, you should be able to define
the port explicitly - it adds one or two lines to the .INI file (if it
doesn't, give it an incorrect address/IRQ to force the text to be added,
then fix manually).

It is also possible that you have run afoul of another problem, that of
serial ports having to be contiguous. If you do not have a COM2 or COM3,
Windows will make them contiguous (e.g., by changing your COM4 to COM3),
without changing the I/O address or IRQ.

Note also that the MicroSoft Diagnostic program (MSD.EXE) does *not* display
correct IRQ information - it only shows the defaults.

Hope this helps.

Gerhard Postpischil                        @ Capital PC User Group
Vienna, VA    703-938-1928                   Rockville, MD
[Team OS/360]  [Team OS/2]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 23:47:48 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26792
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:47:52 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03321
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:47:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "Fun" Kermit scripts?
Date: 4 Oct 1994 23:47:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 127
Message-Id: <36spj4$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
writes:
> Has anybody devised any "fun" Kermit scripts?
>
Yes, folks, Kermit can be fun too!

> Things to answer questions, simulate an ftp site, such like that?
>
Of course -- Even ELIZA-like programs can be written very easily.
Hint: make liberal use of the ASK and GETOK commands.

By the way, a long time ago, before Kermit had arithmetic operations
like INCREMENT and DECREMENT, etc, we had the following truly atrocious
submission from our good friend Gisbert in Bonn, still one of my all-time
favorites -- very much an "in" joke, don't take it seriously:

;Date: Sat, 24 Aug 91 01:19:23 MEZ
;From: "Gisbert W.Selke" <[e-mail]>
;Subject: The Old Curiosity Shop
;Keywords: MS-DOS Kermit, PRODUCT macro
;
; File ARITHMET.INI
; Arithmetic for MS-DOS-Kermit!
; Gisbert W.Selke, Aug 1991.
; Share and enjoy.
;
; This collection of macro definitions for MS-DOS Kermit 3.10 (or later)
; was prompted by Chris Gianone's remark:
; "Meanwhile, creative Kermit users will no doubt find their own uses for
; [the PRODUCT macro]". (Using MS-DOS Kermit, 2nd ed., p 182)
;
; Having done some math, I think I *know* what a product is...
; Given that Joe D. has made Kermit with its script language a universal
; Turing machine...  There you are.
;
; TAKE this file from the MS-Kermit> prompt; then, you can do calculations:
; tadd  <number1> <number2> <...> : show sum of numbers
;                                   ex: tadd  15 17    yields 32
;                                   ex: tadd  15 17 19 yields 51
; tmult <number1> <number2> <...> : show product of numbers
;                                   ex: tmult 11 13    yields 143
;                                   ex: tmult 2 3 4 5  yields 120
; tfact <number>                  : show factorial of number
;                                   ex: tfact 5        yields 120
; Macros used internally are explained below.
;
; More importantly, when you're in CONNECT mode and your host sends a
; sequence like "ESC [ 15;7 ~", the product of the two numbers will
; appear on your screen.
;
; Remark: Multiplication can be implemented more efficiently. This is
;         left as an exercise for the reader. So are FFT and primality
;         testing for large integers.
;
; Uses variables \%a..\%e as arithmetic registers and for passing results.
;
; Elementary operations:
; Increment one-digit number (\%1) by 1; result in \%r, overflow in \%o:
def inc1  def \%o 0,if = \%1 0 def \%r 1,if = \%1 1 def \%r 2,-
if = \%1 2 def \%r 3,if = \%1 3 def \%r 4,if = \%1 4 def \%r 5,-
if > \%1 4 inc1b \%1
; internal macro for inc1:
def inc1b if = \%1 5 def \%r 6,if = \%1 6 def \%r 7,if = \%1 7 def \%r 8,-
if = \%1 8 def \%r 9,if = \%1 9 def \%r 0,if = \%1 9 def \%o 1
; Increment the number in registers \%a..\%e by 1:
def inc5  inc1 \%e, ass \%e \%r,if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%d, ass \%d \%r,-
if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%c, ass \%c \%r, if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%b,-
ass \%b \%r, if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%a, ass \%a \%r,:e

; Split multi-digit number into digits, result in \%a..\%e:
def split def \%a 0,def \%b 0,def \%c 0,def \%d 0,def \%e 0,-
if = \%1 0 go e,set cou \%1,:l,inc5 \%a \%b \%c \%d \%e,if cou go l,:e

; Add \%1 to number in \%a..\%e:
def add1  if = \%1 0 go e,set cou \%1,:l,inc5 \%a \%b \%c \%d \%e,-
if cou go l,:e
; Add two numbers; result in \%a..\%e:
def add   split 0,if > \v(argc) 1 split \%1,if > \v(argc) 2 add1 \%2,-
if > \v(argc) 3 add1 \%3,if > \v(argc) 4 add1 \%4,-
if > \v(argc) 5 add1 \%5,if > \v(argc) 6 add1 \%6,-
if > \v(argc) 7 add1 \%7,if > \v(argc) 8 add1 \%8,-
if > \v(argc) 9 add1 \%9

; Multiply number in \%a..\%e by \%1; result in \%a..\%e:
def mult1 set cou \%1,ass \%9 \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e,if > \%1 0 go s,split 0,-
go e,:l,add1 \%9,:s,if cou go l,:e
; Multiply two numbers; result in \%a..\%e:
def mult  split 1,if > \v(argc) 1 split \%1,if > \v(argc) 2 mult1 \%2,-
if > \v(argc) 3 mult1 \%3,if > \v(argc) 4 mult1 \%4,-
if > \v(argc) 5 mult1 \%5,if > \v(argc) 6 mult1 \%6,-
if > \v(argc) 7 mult1 \%7,if > \v(argc) 7 mult1 \%8,-
if > \v(argc) 9 mult1 \%9

; Time-honoured practice: a factorial routine:
def fact  split 1,if = \%1 0 go e,set count \%1,:l,mult1 \v(count),-
if cou go l,:e

; user interface macros: calls for macros above, plus display of result:
def fatal echo Error: \%1\13, def \%1, stop      ; error handler
def tinc1  inc1 \%1,echo \%o\%r                  ; ex: tinc1  5
def tinc5b inc5b \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e
                                                 ; ex: tinc5b 1 2 3 9 9
def tinc5  split \%1,inc5 \%a \%b \%c \%d \%e,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e
                                                 ; ex: tinc5 99
def tsplit split \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e        ; ex: tsplit 12399
def tadd   add  \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5 \%6 \%7 \%8 \%9,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e
def tadd1  add1 \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e         ; ex: split 17, tadd1 15
def tmult1 mult1 \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e        ; ex: split 13, tmult1 7
def tmult  mult \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5 \%6 \%7 \%8 \%9,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e
def tfact  if not = \v(argc) 2 fatal {TFact takes exactly 1 numeric -
argument},fact \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e
; Multiplication per PRODUCT macro:
def product   mult \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5 \%6 \%7 \%8 \%9,-
askq \%9 Result is \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e\59 hit RETURN:,connect
; Factorial:
def factorial if not = \v(argc) 2 fatal {Factorial takes exactly 1 -
numeric argument},fact \%1,askq \%9 Result is \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e\59 -
hit RETURN:,connect
; End of MS-DOS-Kermit arithmetic routines.
;
;\Gisbert
;
;[Ed. - Gisbert, you have done a fine job of demonstrating the power,
elegance,
;user-friendliness, and ease of use of MS-DOS Kermit's script programming
;language!  This breakthrough makes cryptic programming languages like C,
;Fortran, and BASIC -- not to mention hand calculators -- totally obsolete.]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 21:26:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04665
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:40 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13342
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!cleese.apana.org.au!bugalugs.apana.org.au!andrew
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: CR translation in telnet connection
Date: 1 Oct 1994 21:26:13 GMT
Organization: The Bugalugs Machine
Lines: 35
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <36kk5l$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <367bso$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bugalugs.apana.org.au
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <367bso$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>
|> [e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)  writes:
|> > I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and
|> > then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul
|> > translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs,
|> > when all I want to send is a plain CR.
|> >
|> The makers of the Ethergate should read RFC854.
|>
|> However, this is becoming such a pervasive problem that the forthcoming
|> releases of MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit will add an option,
|> SET TELNET NEWLINE-MODE RAW, to allow carriage returns to be sent
|> bare, with no LF or NUL stuffed after them as required by the TELNET
|> NVT specification (RFC854).
|>

Thanks for this, Frank.

Strangely enough, old versions of kermit seem to work fine - it's only the
current version that I had to put together when we migrated to Solaris 2.3
that broke. Also, the Solaris Telnet client works fine - apparently it just
negotiates binary mode with the egate and then treats CR in raw mode.

BTW, apropos mirrors, insisting that columbia is the only official site
is a little hard on those of us who are an ocean and a continent away
from there. If every Australian user were to download via our US link, the
traffic would be quite heavy. Perhaps columbia should consider making
mirror arrangements with some well-known mirror sites, if only to ease the
network traffic.

cheers

andrew dunstan


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 08:37:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04673
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13346
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:07:05 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
Lines: 27
Message-Id: <36lrfh$[e-mail]>
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Roland Kwee ([e-mail]) wrote:

: While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
: that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
: I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
: systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
: files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.

: Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not
: a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners
: of zmodem lobbying against it?

: Kermit deserves better.
: --Roland          email: [e-mail]

Agreed. Maximus 2.01wb has support for external protocols, and I'd love
to see a config file for using MS-Kermit with Maximus.

Having 25 cent local calls and only one PC, it's a little difficult and
expensive for me to do though.

Any volunteers?

--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 11:48:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04681
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13351
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:46 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 2 Oct 1994 21:18:03 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
Lines: 33
Message-Id: <36m6lj$[e-mail]>
References: <36hakv$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

David Spencer ([e-mail]) wrote:
: What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a
: sane environment?

: 99 44/100 % of my use of kermit is to have my i486 svr4.2 unix box
: talk over the phone lines to a Sun running Solaris. The modems on both
: ends are using Hayes protocol. The modem on the Sun end is connected
: to a terminal server, which I believe is using telnet to talk to the
: Suns. The modem on the i486 is hooked to a serial port.

: I assume I need to escape the flow control charaacters for the modems.
: I think both ends are using rts/cts, though at least one may use
: xon/xoff.

Would the output from stty -a at both ends be needed to see what characters
are intercepted by the Unixes at each end, or do kermit commands like the
following get around the problem:

set flow rts/cts
SET COMMAND BYTESIZE 8
SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8
SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET TRANSPARENT

I'd like to be able to make the data path from the serial port to C-Kermit
completely 8-bit transparent, with the only way of interrupting the
connection being to drop carrier (which would send a SIGHUP).

Any suggestions?

--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 02:06:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07224
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:02:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17378
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:02:47 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.dell.com!tadpole.com!uunet!dove!venus.nist.gov!enh.nist.gov!reflib
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit takes an upper-case K.
Date: 5 OCT 94 02:06:49 GMT
Organization: NIST
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: enh.nist.gov
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

  Some of you are committing the extreme indignity of referring
to this protocol as kermit.

  The original Kermit is the immortal brainchild of the alas all-
too-mortal Jim Henson; please do him the honor of capitalizing Kermit.

  If you are still in the dark, Kermit was the original Muppet, in
the form of a green frog, who originated the expression, "It's not
easy, being green."

  Thank you for your attention.

[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  5 03:16:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07718
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:18:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18967
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:18:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 20:16:54 -0700
Lines: 43
Message-Id: <36t5r6$[e-mail]>
References: <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <36pipa$[e-mail]> <36r5d2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:

>I am writing this time as a management scientist and consultant, not
>as Garbo's moderator.
   [...very interesting argument deleted...]

This posting proves that it made sense to carry on this humungous thread
about _free_ kermit. It is a management problem. Columbia has a problem
with the costs of supporting users. Therefore, the problem is NOT
solved by restricting Kermit on CD roms.

In my opinion, Columbia should starting to charge for consulting. Or at
least ask a little louder for donations from users with questions.

If indeed there are so many users with problems, willing to spend time
and long-distance phone calls, then there is a market for Kermit consultants.
With a little preparation, I would like to think of starting a business.
(or is that against the principle that we are not allowed to make a profit
from Kermit....)

With free distribution of Kermit on as many CD's as possible, the consulting
business would do even better. Let the masses be introduced to Kermit!
As long as they like the features, and are willing to pay for solving the
problems, let them enjoy Kermit.

I would like to refer to organizations as the League for Programming
Freedom, and GNU (GNU's not Unix), and the Emacs Manifestos, that
contain further justifications of providing free software and how to
cover your costs.

Finally, I am for advancing the state of the art in computing, which in
the case of Kermit could mean: going to a better structured Kermit,
with a lot of reusable code. Right now, Kermit is dawntingly big.
Popularizing Kermit would therefore be better than keeping it secluded.

Frank, I hope to encourage you this way, because I feel a lot for
you guys, and Kermit.

Timo, feel free to give us some more thoughts on management of the Kermit
project.


--Roland           email: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 05:22:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18133
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 02:39:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29448
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 02:39:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 5 Oct 1994 05:22:34 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <36td6q$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <36ps3p$[e-mail]> <36qh8u$[e-mail]> <36rhq1$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <36rhq1$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews) writes:
...
:What do you think the ratio of support requests to manuals purchased
:is for people who get Kermit off a CD-ROM?

Do you have a hard number ? How big is it without a CD-ROM distribution?
As far as I am concern, we are speculating with this and can't
use it as the main issue.
As I said earlier, the main issue is not the people without manuals,
it is the objection of the CD-ROM vendors making money of kermit.
I understand this valid view, although am not totally agree.

-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 08:40:14 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23374
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 04:56:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03208
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 04:56:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!telepost.no!hydro.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Terje Mathisen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Faster Kermit protocol engine
Date: 5 Oct 1994 08:40:14 GMT
Organization: Hydro Data, Norsk Hydro (Norway)
Lines: 37
Message-Id: <36tope$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Terje Mathisen)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sk08ts.hda.hydro.com
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.02
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

When I wrote my Kermit implementation, I naturally looked for ways to
speed it up. Here are a few of the idea I used. Any comments?

Packet encoding:  I generate a 256x4 byte table of the needed encoding
for each possible character during the Send-Init negotiations.

The buffered file read routine sets the first position of the input
buffer after the file data to a value different from the last byte.

This lets me reduce the encoding to the following code: (MaxRep will
be either 1, if repeat quoting is unsupported or 94 if it is.)

  c = *ibuf; rep = 0;
  do {
    ibuf++;
    rep++;
  } while ((c == *ibuf) && (rep < MaxRep));
/* The previous loop must terminate due to the guard char */

  et = &encode_tab[c*4]; elen = *et++; /* Length-preceeded strings */
  if (rep + elen > 4) {  /* Use repeat prefix only if it's a win! */
    *ubuf++ = qrep;
    *ubuf++ = rep + ' ';
    rep = 1;
  }
  do {
    memcpy(ubuf,et,elen);
    ubuf += elen;
  } while (--rep);

The decoding process use another couple of 256-byte tables to handle
most of the logic and conversions.

-Terje Mathisen   (include std disclaimer)  <[e-mail]>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"



From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 04:45:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23537
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 05:00:28 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03299
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 05:00:27 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!metro.atlanta.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken)
Subject: Re: "Fun" Kermit scripts?
References: <[e-mail]> <36spj4$[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Organization: Mordor International BBS
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 04:45:15 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 31
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36spj4$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) wrote:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
> writes:
> > Has anybody devised any "fun" Kermit scripts?
> >
> Yes, folks, Kermit can be fun too!

:-)

>
> > Things to answer questions, simulate an ftp site, such like that?
> >
> Of course -- Even ELIZA-like programs can be written very easily.
> Hint: make liberal use of the ASK and GETOK commands.

Thanks :-)  I'll be *definately* ordering the book shortly - there is *sooo* much I'll need to know, and this is a case where the documentation is a need, rather than a wish!  (from everything I've heard about the book, it's one of the most complete, best written books not only about Kermit, but about communications in general!)

I look forward to eventually being able to submit some cool scripts to you, Frank - and I surely hope to see others doing it too!  It seems like such an incredibly powerful tool, even at simple first glance!

>
> By the way, a long time ago, before Kermit had arithmetic operations
> like INCREMENT and DECREMENT, etc, we had the following truly atrocious
> submission from our good friend Gisbert in Bonn, still one of my all-time
> favorites -- very much an "in" joke, don't take it seriously:

Can't wait to check it out :-)

--
Kenneth Udut                                          [e-mail]
Listowner of [e-mail] - discussion on the rights of kids/teens

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 11:45:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28894
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:55:19 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09167
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:55:18 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu!rueiwun
From: [e-mail] (Ruei-wun  Tu)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Need kermit script for redial and idol protection...
Date: 5 Oct 1994 11:45:11 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Unix Users Group
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <36u3k7$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello,
     Does anyone have kermit script for Redial function?  I also try to
     write a script which can send a "SPACE" and "BACKSPACE" when the
     line is idol.  I am trying this because everytime I try to get a
     larger file from some FTP site to my remote account at home, my line
     will be cut off while I was waiting over 5 minutes without pressing
     any key on my keyboard.

     Please E-mail me your responses.  Thank you in advance...

     Rueiwun Tu

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 11:56:48 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28941
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:56:50 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09192
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:56:49 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 5 Oct 1994 11:56:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 70
Message-Id: <36u4a0$[e-mail]>
References: <36m6lj$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36m6lj$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Arthur Marsh) writes:
> David Spencer ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a
> : sane environment?
>
> : 99 44/100 % of my use of kermit is to have my i486 svr4.2 unix box
> : talk over the phone lines to a Sun running Solaris. The modems on both
> : ends are using Hayes protocol. The modem on the Sun end is connected
> : to a terminal server, which I believe is using telnet to talk to the
> : Suns. The modem on the i486 is hooked to a serial port.
>
> : I assume I need to escape the flow control charaacters for the modems.
> : I think both ends are using rts/cts, though at least one may use
> : xon/xoff.
>
This is documented just about as much as it can practically be documented
in the update files that come with C-Kermit and MS-DOS Kermit.  Each
particular case is different.  If nobody is using Xon/Xoff, you don't
have to prefix 17, 19, 143, and 145.  But this is not something you can
derive by force of logic -- you really have to try it, because you really
never know.  Kermit itself does not use Xon/Xoff if you tell it not to.

> Would the output from stty -a at both ends be needed to see what characters
> are intercepted by the Unixes at each end?
>
Absolutely, positively not.  Kermit does everything in its power to change
the tty modes to make the connection transparent to every character --
except Xon and Xoff if that type of flow control is being used.  tty modes
are saved when Kermit starts up, modified for command parsing, modifited
again for file transfer, and restored (hopefully :-) when Kermit exits.

> or do kermit commands like the following get around the problem:
>
> set flow rts/cts
> SET COMMAND BYTESIZE 8
> SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8
> SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET TRANSPARENT
>
These commands (except SET FLOW) have nothing to do with file transfer.

> I'd like to be able to make the data path from the serial port to C-Kermit
> completely 8-bit transparent, with the only way of interrupting the
> connection being to drop carrier (which would send a SIGHUP).
>
That is exactly what Kermit does itself.  You don't need to do anything
else in Kermit or on your Sun.  HOWEVER...  the problem is in the areas
outside of Kermit's control -- the modems (in your case), and in other
cases, the other components of the connection.

In your particular case you can probably get by with:

  SET FLOW RTS/CTS
  SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL
  SET CONTROL PREFIX 1 129

This prefixes only the packet-start character.  In fact, you don't even
need to do this, but then if you get any transmission errors, recovery is
more difficult, i.e. time-consuming.

The discussion above assumes you are using C-Kermit 5A(190) on both ends.
The picture is slightly different otherwise.

- Frank



> Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
>                [e-mail], [e-mail]
> ..endofsig

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 13:39:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06020
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:40:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15350
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:40:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Captain Adam Albina)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Windows Modem setup
Date: 5 Oct 1994 09:39:47 -0400
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Lines: 18
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <36uab3$[e-mail]>
References: <360h05$[e-mail]> <36sd5b$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: f-umbc8.umbc.edu
Keywords: Windows, modem, base address
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I put the following lines in my system.ini and all works well on Com3.

(under the [386Enh] section, include:

Com1base=03F8
Com2base=2F8H
Com3base=03E8
Com4base=2E8H


No promises since I don't know your system- but this works for me.
Hope it helps.

Adam Albina




From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 13:38:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07467
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:02:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16867
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:02:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Crash recovery ?
Date: 5 Oct 1994 13:38:12 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <36ua84$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol?
This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem.

thanks
-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 13:57:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09347
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:24:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18940
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:24:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!cmhcsys.cmhcsys.com!chuck
From: [e-mail] (Chuck Stickelman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: USing Unix editors while under kermit
Date: 5 Oct 1994 13:57:54 GMT
Organization: CMHC Systems
Lines: 32
Message-Id: <36ubd2$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: news.cmhcsys.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:
: I'm using version 1.89 on OS/2 to log into Unix box . The
: problem I have is that I can't use either Emacs or Vi because
: of the lack of either an escape or an ALT-X that transmits
: to the application correctly.Also the arrow keys do not
: work in the applications . I have the book and have tried
: both set terminal arrow-keys and set terminal keypad-mode.
: What should I do next ?

: The oddest part is that the program works fine, arrow keys in
: application, etc - in calling into a VMS system. Is this some
: sort of anti-unix plot <G>.

: --
Matt,

I had the same sort of problem w/ vi and arrow keys from a DOS/Kermit
system.  One of our R&D folks pointed me to $HOME/.exrc.  (Note: ex and
vi are the same editor, different interface.)  When i added the line:
    set timeout=190
things got better.  Basically, vi has a timeout for escape sequences
which is based on the terminal's baud-rate.  Various pieces of a network
could cause timing delays that would exceed that limit.  Give it a try.

Chuck

--
Chuck Stickelman  <[e-mail]>
PC Sales Engineer                        Home:    [phone]
CMHC Systems, Inc.                       Work:    [phone]
570 Metro Place N.                       WATTS:    [phone]
Dublin, OH 43017 USA                     FAX:    [phone]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 14:18:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09461
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:27:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19118
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:27:16 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lille1.fr!zaphod.crihan.fr!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Transparent kermit servers
Date: 05 Oct 1994 14:18:26 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
    <36p234$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 3 Oct 1994 13:48:20 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36p234$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] writes:
>> Similarly would it be possible (on suitable OSs) to have the kermit
>> server program pass all non-kermit characters to another process via a
>> virtual terminal thus allowing the use of a mixture of Kermit server
>> commands and direct host OS interaction without the need to start the
>> and stop the remote server?
>>
>How does the server tell the difference between non-Kermit characters
>and a trashed Kermit packet?

A valid point. I would not expect to use this mode except over
relatively clean communication channels. Simply waiting for the EOL
character would probably suffice.
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 14:46:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10832
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:47:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20624
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:47:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Crash recovery ?
Date: 5 Oct 1994 14:46:56 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <36ue90$[e-mail]>
References: <36ua84$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36ua84$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
Rahardjo) writes:
> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol?
> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem.
>
Not only is there a plan, it's done.  Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit
5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular
Kermit implementations soon thereafter.  Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce
for announcements.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 14:39:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11605
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:56:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21304
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:56:16 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!bigblue.oit.unc.edu!tipper.oit.unc.edu!ewt
From: [e-mail] (Erik Troan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 5 Oct 1994 14:39:17 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 34
Message-Id: <36udql$[e-mail]>
References: <36hv50$[e-mail]> <36i5s7$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: tipper.oit.unc.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>I hope that someone does have a magic pill because when you say that
>that Kermit cannot be distributed on *any* CD-ROMs it means that the
>folks who distribute FreeBSD, BSDI, SunOS, Linux, and other operating
>systems, as well as DECUS, may no longer include Kermit, even through
>it is free of charge, on their CD-ROMs.

For the record, I don't know of any Linux CDROM's that still distribute
kermit (there used to be some due to ignorance, but it looks like that
has been cleared up for a while now) and it doesn't seem to be hurting
linux at all. The CDROM's still ship with zmodem, xmodem, etc., and the
first thing I do after installing Linux is downlaod kermit with zmodem.

Inconvienent? Yes.
Unreasonable? No.

If Columbia doesn't make money from the CDROMs, why should the CDROMs make
money from Columbia? That doesn't seem fair at all.

Get real folks. Kermit is not going to die because of this, and neither are
ftp sites. It's not hard to find kermit on the net even if some sites
do exclude it.


Erik


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Like a fool I let dreams become great expectations" - Chess

        Erik Troan = [e-mail] = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 14:46:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13462
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:25:19 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23489
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:25:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson
From: [e-mail] (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Date: 05 Oct 1994 14:46:17 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software
Lines: 58
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36lpdt$[e-mail]> <36ml93$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 2 Oct 1994 15:57:23 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36ml93$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

   I think what disturbs me most about this discussion is that people
   seem to be more concerned with "how can we make money from this?"
   than "how can I get it for my own use?" or "how can I learn to use
   it more effectively?".

I think you're wrong.  I think that most people's concern is "How can
I make Kermit available for other's use?"  YOUR concern is "How can
Columbia make sure it makes money from this?" or at least not lose
money.  However, Columbia University, which sells its reputation to
its students and researchers, gains reputation from greater use of
Kermit.  So, Columbia's greater goals are served by wider use of
Kermit, even if it costs Columbia money to support the Kermit group.

Similarly, it was in Clarkson's best interest to fund its free
software devlopment.  Unfortunately, universities are stupid and short
sighted, which is why I'm no longer at one.  I heard that a prominent
Clarkson alumni asked to meet the people behind the Clarkson Packet
Driver Collection, and the director of the computing center had to
explain that I'd left the university.

   If you want to make money from our work, then you will have to share that
   money with us.

But as others have pointed out, free software isn't free.  There's
always a price associated with it.  So *someone* is always making
money off Kermit distribution.  You are trying to force physical media
distributors to pay you, simply because you can.

   If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to
   spend one red cent.  If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you
   advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us
   money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw.  That would
   include the universities, government agencies, research institute,
   hospitals, convents, and orphanages.

   Why don't we give it rest, eh?  Thanks.

Because the Kermit copyright is limiting (intentionally or not) the
distribution of Kermit.  If you want universities, government
agencies, research institutes, hospitals, convents, and orphanages to
be able to use Kermit, you have to make sure that they can get it.

What you are doing, by forcing the non-Internet-connected users to buy
floppies from you, is forcing the poorest Kermit users to fund the
richest, because your floppy prices are much higher than any shareware
house.  I know, because you're listed in my HOWTOGET.IT file
for packet drivers as the only place to get packet drivers on
floppies.

Your policies are perverse, and do not meet your stated goals.

--
-russ <[e-mail]>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | [phone] (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 15:56:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15785
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:56:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25665
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:56:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:56:36 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 48
Message-Id: <36uibk$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Russell Nelson) writes:
> What you are doing, by forcing the non-Internet-connected users to buy
> floppies from you, is forcing the poorest Kermit users to fund the
> richest, because your floppy prices are much higher than any shareware
> house.
>
"Forcing" might be too strong a word, Russ, but you have point which most
of our readers are missing (even though I have brought it up before):

These "poorest Kermit users" (if we can infer they are poor from
the fact that they are not on the Internet) are paying the money that
supports the work that we do which you, the "richest" are benefitting from
for free.  Is there something wrong with this picture?  Of course.

Suppose the situation were reversed, and the Internet users, who are so
particular about how they can get our software and turn it into a moneymaker
for themselves without supporting our work -- or even, leaving those
people aside (even though it is in their behalf that these discussions are
being conducted, ad nauseum) -- those on the Internet who simply use our
software themselves... (now remember how this clause began, all of you
full backup parsers in human clothing...) paid for our work so that we
could distribute it free of charge to the people who are not on the
Internet?  You all know where to send your money.  Thanks.

I think everybody would like to see Kermit on CDROMs.  The
question is -- and nobody has yet answered it -- how do we do that without
killing the Kermit effort?  I'm not asking any of you to answer this
question: I don't think you can, unless you step forward with an endowment
that lets us carry on our work indefinitely in such a way that no funds
need to be raised, and everybody's needs are met.  As long as we must pay
or our own work, then it is up to us to decide how to do it.

I'd also like to remind everybody of the dynamics of newsgroups -- there
are variable amounts of time delay, which result in a peculiar kind of
resonance in discussions like this.  Russ's message was in response to one
of mine from many days ago.  Russ has a unique perspective, and apart from
his uncharacteristic closing sentence, offers some valuable insights.

But most of this is old territory,
and does not need to come to the foreground again and again simply because
of the mechanics of netnews.  So please, when you are composing your next
barb in the heat of the moment, pay attention to the date of the message
you are responding to, and if it is a day or two or more in the past, you
are probably not going to contribute anything new.

- Frank


From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 14:01:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16982
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:08:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26668
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:08:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot
From: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 5 Oct 94 14:01:39 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Nntp-Posting-Host: taren2la.apd.dec.com
X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Ok, we all jumped on Frank for not allowing Kermit on CD-ROM. We heard his
arguments and it is clear that it has to be this way. Still I find it a
pitty that Kermit was removed from the major archives for this reason. I
remember that we lost other programs too this way.

Is it possible to set up a special directory tree for those programs that
are of great value (like Kermit) but are not allowed to go on a CD-ROM.
This directory is not meant for every other program, authors must still
be pushed to allow their programs on CD-ROM, but it would solve difficult
situations like this one (an author that will not give-in and a product that
is too valuable to looze). During the generation of the CD-ROM this
directory can be skipped so that the programs will not appear on CD-ROM.

Maybe we can get some of the other programs that were lost because of the
CD-ROM restiction back also (or did they all agree with the CD-ROM
distribution in the end?).

Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as
far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up.

Kind Regards,


Henk.

--
  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]
 /---/ __  __  /  Tel: [phone] | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation
/   / (-_ / / /(  Loc: FP-B09        | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 16:08:58 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17009
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:09:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26697
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:09:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Need kermit script for redial and idol protection...
Date: 5 Oct 1994 16:08:58 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <36uj2q$[e-mail]>
References: <36u3k7$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36u3k7$[e-mail]>,
Ruei-wun  Tu <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hello,
>     Does anyone have kermit script for Redial function?  I also try to
>     write a script which can send a "SPACE" and "BACKSPACE" when the
>     line is idol.  I am trying this because everytime I try to get a
>     larger file from some FTP site to my remote account at home, my line
>     will be cut off while I was waiting over 5 minutes without pressing
>     any key on my keyboard.
>
>     Please E-mail me your responses.  Thank you in advance...
>
>     Rueiwun Tu

C-Kermit 5a(190) comes with a REDIAL macro.

As far as idle states, and disconnects during large ftp's.  I would suggest
using the HASH mode for ftp's.  This will generate a # mark for every X
bytes transfered.  This might prevent the disconnection, unless the daemon
only monitors incoming characters.

Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 15:25:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20948
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:53:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00553
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:53:04 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo
From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:25:21 GMT
Organization: HP InterWorks Member
Lines: 53
Message-Id: <36ugh1$[e-mail]>
References: <36i5s7$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36udql$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36udql$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Erik Troan) writes:

>Get real folks. Kermit is not going to die because of this, and neither are
>ftp sites. It's not hard to find kermit on the net even if some sites
>do exclude it.
>
>Erik
>        Erik Troan = [e-mail] = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt

Then practice what you preach.  sunsite is funded in part by Sun, a
commercial concern if ever there was one.  sunsite, specifically,
you, though there's kermit stuff on there owned by other users,
is distributing Kermit.  Unless you have written authorization from
Columbia, I suggest that you think about what you are saying.

Here's the pertinent section of the Kermit Copyright:

  product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with
  commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to
  their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of
  Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University.

Here's the pertinent part of ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/READ.ME:

are provided without warranty of any kind.  Please read specific copyright
notices and disclaimers.  Most of this software is not "public domain".

Here's the pertinent part of ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/DISCLAIMER.readme:

ACCESS TO AND USE OF THE SunSite.unc.edu FTP SERVER IS SUBJECT TO THE
FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS:   All software, documentation, research
data, and other materials ("Materials") submitted for installation on the
SunSite.unc.edu FTP Server will be deemed in the public domain, except for
any express restrictions included in such Materials by the submitting party.
Neither the University of North Carolina ("UNC") nor Sun Microsystems
Computer Corporation ("Sun") are responsible for providing notice of or
enforcing any such restrictions.  All parties submitting Materials to
the SunSite.unc.edu FTP Server represent and warrant to UNC and Sun that
the submission, installation, copying, distribution, and use of such
Materials in connection with the SunSite.unc.edu FTP Server will not
violate any other party's proprietary rights.  Neither UNC nor Sun are

And check out the files that you own on sunsite.unc.edu:

 pub/Linux/apps/comm:

-rwxr--r--  1 ewt        175588 Aug 11  1993 ckermit-189.tar.gz

 pub/Linux/distributions/MCC/1.0+/extra_packages:

-r--r--r--  1 ewt        173334 Mar 27 05:29 kermit.tgz

-Mike

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 15:56:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21316
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:58:02 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01022
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:58:00 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!wsu-cs!mathsun!handel
From: [e-mail] (David Handel)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Information display during transfers
Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:56:29 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <36uibd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (David Handel)
Nntp-Posting-Host: mathsun.math.wayne.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I recently started using MS-Kermit 3.13 to connect from my home PC
(a Dell XPS P60) to my Sun login at my university. The Kermit at
the Sun end seems to be C-Kermit and the information
"4D(061) 8 Sep 86, 4.2 BSD" appears when it is summoned up.

I have experienced inconsistencies in the information display during
file transfer. Sometimes during a transfer the percentage of the
transfer completed is displayed (sometimes digitally, sometimes in
a linear graphical fashion), and other times this piece of information
is not displayed at all. I am not aware of any variations in my
procedure which would cause these differences. Can anyone explain?
Are there measures I can take to ensure that the percent completed
information is always displayed?

Thank you,
Dave

--
     Dave Handel                  Department of Mathematics
     [e-mail]        Wayne State University
                                  Detroit, Michigan 48202

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 17:18:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22716
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:19:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09559
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:19:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Information display during transfers
Date: 5 Oct 1994 17:18:52 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <36un5s$[e-mail]>
References: <36uibd$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36uibd$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David
Handel) writes:
> I recently started using MS-Kermit 3.13 to connect from my home PC
> (a Dell XPS P60) to my Sun login at my university. The Kermit at
> the Sun end seems to be C-Kermit and the information
> "4D(061) 8 Sep 86, 4.2 BSD" appears when it is summoned up.
>
Notice the date: eight years and four weeks ago.  That has given us
time to make quite a few improvements :-)  -- including the ones you
are asking about.

C-Kermit 5A(190), in its VERY LAST beta edit, is available via anonymous
ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode,
file cku190.tar.Z (and .gz).

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 16:58:07 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24603
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:47:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17006
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:46:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!toads.pgh.pa.us!newsfeed.pitt.edu!ctc.com!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mariusz Zydyk)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 5 Oct 1994 16:58:07 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary CPSC
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <36uluv$[e-mail]>
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fsb.cpsc.ucalgary.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

> While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
> that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
> I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
> systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
> files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.

> Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not
> a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners
> of zmodem lobbying against it?

There is no conspiracy against Kermit. I myself only started to use it
when I got my INet access. It is supported on quite a few BBS [mainly
those run on Maximus] but you say it is an outdated version. Most
people do not use Kermit on BBSs because it is quite difficult to set
up an external protocol [for sysops who want a newer version of Kermit]
and there are faster and more popular protocols [namely Z-modem, Bimodem,
and a bunch of others] and Kermit is not seen as a very fast protocol.
I get about 55-60% efficiency, and my terminal program always gives an
inflated ratio, so I don't know. But you're right that Kermit deserves
better...

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 15:02:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29775
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:02:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23355
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:02:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!ub4b!idefix.CS.kuleuven.ac.be!blekul11!bliulg11!pirard
Organization: Universite de Liege - Service general d'Informatique
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:03:29 +01
From: Andre' PIRARD <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit via tn3270
References: <36481e$[e-mail]> <36a8de$[e-mail]>
Lines: 32
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36481e$[e-mail]>,
Philip Wirtz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I use MSDOS Kermit on a PC-compatible machine to emulate a VT100 when
>connecting (over a modem) to a Sun running Solaris.  I can upload,
>download, and "transparent print" without problem.  When logged on to the
>Sun, I use tn3270 to connect to an IBM mainframe running VM/CMS.  As an
>alternative route to the IBM mainframe, I can use MSDOS Kermit to dial up
>through a 7171 protocol emulator.  I have no problem using Kermit to
>upload, download, or transparent print when I use the ALTERNATIVE route to
>the IBM mainframe (i.e., dialing up through the 7171).  However, when
>using the tn3270 route (which of course bypasses the 7171), I cannot
>upload, download or transparent print.  Speculatively, it appears that
>escape sequences are not being properly passed to the Sun (and therefore
>to my PC), so (for example) the PC Kermit does not know that it needs to

The 7171 use a "transparent mode" bypassing ASCII/EBCDIC translation
and screen formats to transmit data in half duplex mode during file
transfers with VM Kermit, printing with TPRINT and others.
VM Kermit reconises the 7171 automagically and uses it that way.
A 3270 emulator may or may not recognise the special buffer format
it receives from the mainframe when entering transparent mode.
If it does not, results are unpredictable.
If it does, look into your man tn3270 to see what it does with the data.
As I recall vaguely, you might pipe it to your communication line, but I
have never tried and I'm uncertain about how replies can be sent back.
An alternative might be to instruct VM Kermit not to use transparent
mode but normal screen I/O with a SET CONTROLLER command.
I understand one should exist for your purpose, but I've never tried
it either, sorry. Look into the doc.
Beware of ASCII/EBCDIC translation in this case.

Andri.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 17:48:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00286
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:10:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24024
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:10:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Crash recovery ?
Date: 5 Oct 1994 17:48:16 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <36uot0$[e-mail]>
References: <36ua84$[e-mail]> <36ue90$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

:[e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo) writes:
:> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol?
:> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem.
:>
:Not only is there a plan, it's done.  Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit
:5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular
:Kermit implementations soon thereafter.  Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce
:for announcements.

Bravo... I am waiting for the announcement.
[the first newsgroup I am going to scan  :-)  ]


-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 18:04:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01722
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:32:36 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26142
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:32:34 -0400
Control: cancel <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl07
From: [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten)
Subject: cancel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:04:39 GMT
Lines: 6
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<[e-mail]> was cancelled from within trn.
--
Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer
Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210    [phone]
INET: [e-mail]                            UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten
# # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # #

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 09:18:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01782
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:33:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26201
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:33:29 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!uknet!dcs.gla.ac.uk!brunel!xxxxajh
From: [e-mail] (Alan J Holmes)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:18:32 GMT
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:
>[e-mail] (Steven W. Layten) writes:
>>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
>>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
>>likely to kill the Kermit effort.

>It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM.  If
>it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes.  The
>proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation.  They sell
>9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs?

There are an awful lot of people who do not have CD-ROM players,
how are they to obtain the documentation?  Is it on the file from
ftp?

Regards

Alan Holmes


From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 16:55:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03055
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:47:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27341
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:47:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo
From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 5 Oct 1994 16:55:52 GMT
Organization: HP InterWorks Member
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <36ulqo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henk de Groot) writes:

>Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as
>far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up.
>  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]

Ahhh...  DEC.  Aren't you the guys that are shipping Kermit on CD-ROM
yourselves, as part of the Alpha OSF/1 Freeware stuff?  I'd suggest that
before asking Timo and Keith to be nice guys that you ought to start
asking the people who cut your Freeware CD to obtain written permission
from Columbia to distribute.

Hey, your stock is rebounding a bit -- you can afford it.

-Mike

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 18:14:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05547
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:16:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00354
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:16:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mariusz Zydyk)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: File sizes and Kermit
Date: 5 Oct 1994 18:14:00 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary CPSC
Lines: 9
Message-Id: <36uqd8$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fsb.cpsc.ucalgary.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

------- I just started using Kermit [5A(189)] and I noticed that
when transferring files the file size on my PC at home is very
different from the original. It is always larger [72K file comes
out as 78K], but I haven't been able to see any differences between
the two. It is not a big deal at the moment, but shortly [today] I
will need to transfer some ZIP files and I'd like the size to
be preserved for obvious reasons. Why does Kermit do this and is
there a way around it?
Any help would be appreciated..

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 21:00:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08980
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 17:00:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04373
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 17:00:53 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: File sizes and Kermit
Date: 5 Oct 1994 21:00:51 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 27
Message-Id: <36v463$[e-mail]>
References: <36uqd8$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36uqd8$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Mariusz Zydyk) writes:
> ------- I just started using Kermit [5A(189)] and I noticed that
> when transferring files the file size on my PC at home is very
> different from the original. It is always larger [72K file comes
> out as 78K], but I haven't been able to see any differences between
> the two. It is not a big deal at the moment, but shortly [today] I
> will need to transfer some ZIP files and I'd like the size to
> be preserved for obvious reasons. Why does Kermit do this and is
> there a way around it?
>
Tell the Kermit program that is sending the file to "set file type
binary".  The differences between text and binary mode transfer are
explained in the documentation, and have also been discussed on this
newsgroup.

- Frank

x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 21:42:07 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15917
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:48:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13669
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:48:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz
From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 21:42:07 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 66
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Alan J Holmes) writes:
>There are an awful lot of people who do not have CD-ROM players,
>how are they to obtain the documentation?  Is it on the file from
>ftp?

No.  That's what this whole discussion is about.  You must purchase the
Kermit book to get the documentation because Columbia withdrew it from
free distribution several years ago.  This makes it impossible to use
all of Kermit's features unless you pay US$34.95 for the documentation.

Here is the information on how to purchase the book.

  Christine M. Gianone, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", Second Edition, Digital
  Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN
  1-55558-082-3.  Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the
  IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette.

  US single-copy price: $34.95; quantity discounts available.  Available
  in computer bookstores or directly from:

    Kermit Development and Distribution
    Columbia University Academic Information Systems
    612 West 115th Street
    New York, NY  10025  USA
    Telephone: (USA) 212 854-3703

  Domestic and overseas orders accepted.  Price: $34.95 (US, Canada, and
  Mexico), $45 elsewhere.  Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or
  prepaid by check in US dollars.  Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn
  on a US bank.  Price includes shipping.  Do not include sales tax.

  You can also order by phone from the publisher, Digital Press /
  Butterworth-Heinemann, with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express:

    [phone] (Woburn, Massachusetts office for USA and Canada)
    [phone] (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada)
    [phone]   (Rushden, England office for Europe)
    [phone] (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand)
    [phone]    (Singapore office for Asia)

  A German-language edition is also available:

    Christine M. Gianone, "MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle
    Kommunikationsprogramm", Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany
    (1991), 414 pages.  Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for
    the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including
    German-language help files.  Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke.  Price:
    DM 69,00.  ISBN 3-88229-006-4.  Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG,
    Helstorfer Strasse 7, D-30625 Hannover.  Tel. [phone],
    Fax. [phone].

  And a French-language edition:

    Christine M. Gianone, "Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi", Heinz Schiefer
    & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages.  Packaged with version 3.11 of
    MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch
    diskette.  Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre.  ISBN 2-901143-20-2.
    Heinz Schiefer & Cie., 45 rue Henri de Regnier, F-78000 Versailles.
    Tel. [phone], Fax. [phone].


Keith
--
Keith Petersen
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 21:52:07 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16549
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:57:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14277
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:57:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz
From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 21:52:07 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 35
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Henk de Groot) writes:
>Is it possible to set up a special directory tree for those programs that
>are of great value (like Kermit) but are not allowed to go on a CD-ROM.
>This directory is not meant for every other program, authors must still
>be pushed to allow their programs on CD-ROM, but it would solve difficult
>situations like this one (an author that will not give-in and a product that
>is too valuable to looze). During the generation of the CD-ROM this
>directory can be skipped so that the programs will not appear on CD-ROM.

SimTel's policy is not to maintain a separate collection of limited
distribution programs.

>Maybe we can get some of the other programs that were lost because of the
>CD-ROM restiction back also (or did they all agree with the CD-ROM
>distribution in the end?).

They all agreed to either change their CD-ROM distribution limitations
or they gave SimTel special permission to include their programs on our
CD-ROMs because they realized that Simtel could not exist without the
revenues produced from CD-ROM sales.

>Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as
>far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up.

MS-Kermit can not be accepted in its present form because the
documentation is not included.  SimTel's policy is not to accept
programs which do not include documentation.  You will not see
MS-Kermit on SimTel again until that situation changes.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 22:34:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17163
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:05:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14941
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:05:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 5 Oct 1994 18:34:56 -0400
Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited
Lines: 39
Message-Id: <36v9mg$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:

[stuff deleted]

:MS-Kermit can not be accepted in its present form because the
:documentation is not included.  SimTel's policy is not to accept
:programs which do not include documentation.  You will not see
:MS-Kermit on SimTel again until that situation changes.

Well, what about TeX/LaTeX, and the implementations of it that exist?
With those programs it's the exact same thing--everything is publically
available, but if you want to know every little thing, you need to
purchase the TeXbook, LaTeX-A Document Preparation System, and ideally,
The LaTeX Companion.  Does this mean that you'll be getting rid of the
DOS version of TeX that exists on SimTel?

What about some of the GNU programs ported to DOS?  Their documentation
isn't that complete.  Hell, gsed only includes the GNU copying.doc
file.  And gsed --help doesn't give you any form of informative help,
so that can't be construed as documentation.

Or what about Pmail?  Same thing.  On-line help, but they still suggest
you purchase the manual.  In fact, quite a few programs do this.

Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't
any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book?  But then again,
it seems to be okay for MicroSlop to sell me DOS v6.22 with a flimsy
pamphlet, and then expect me to shell out another $39.99 for a manual.

Oh well, you win some, you lose some...

        --Jerry


--
|>  Jerry Alexandratos             **  "vengo de la tierra del    <|
|>  [e-mail]      **   fuego ten cuidado cuando  <|
|>  [e-mail]   **   llamas mi nombre..."      <|

From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 23:32:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19714
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:50:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18104
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:50:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz
From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:32:22 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]>
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos) writes:
>Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't
>any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book?

The help file supplied with MS-Kermit says:

   This file briefly summarizes the commands and features of MS-DOS
   Kermit 3.13.  For detailed information, consult "Using MS-DOS Kermit",
   second edition, by Christine M. Gianone, published by ......

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  6 00:40:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22854
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 20:50:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21982
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 20:50:16 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 5 Oct 1994 20:40:31 -0400
Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <36vh1v$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
:[e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos) writes:
:>Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't
:>any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book?
:
:The help file supplied with MS-Kermit says:
:
:   This file briefly summarizes the commands and features of MS-DOS
:   Kermit 3.13.  For detailed information, consult "Using MS-DOS Kermit",
:   second edition, by Christine M. Gianone, published by ......

I'm not denying that.  But what about all of the other examples that I
listed?  All of them are definitely breaking your documentation rules.
So, will you or won't you be getting rid of them, and refusing to keep
them on SimTel until they change their documentation?

        --Jerry

--
|>  Jerry Alexandratos             **  "vengo de la tierra del    <|
|>  [e-mail]      **   fuego ten cuidado cuando  <|
|>  [e-mail]   **   llamas mi nombre..."      <|

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 02:02:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26286
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:09:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27584
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:09:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!ac608
From: [e-mail] (Chris Madsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: USing Unix editors while under kermit
Date: 6 Oct 1994 02:02:00 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <36vlqo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Chris Madsen)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] () says:

>I'm using version 1.89 on OS/2 to log into Unix box . The
>problem I have is that I can't use either Emacs or Vi because
>of the lack of either an escape or an ALT-X that transmits
>to the application correctly.

Did you realize that the default init file for OS/2 swaps the Esc and
backquote keys?  To get Esc, you have to type backquote (`), and vice versa.
To fix this <expletive deleted>, edit CKERMOD.INI (on your OS/2 system).
Search for the two lines:
  set key \27 \96                 ; Swap the Escape and Accent-Grave keys
  set key \96 \27                 ; during CONNECT mode
Delete these (or comment them out by putting a semicolon at the beginning
of each) and your Esc key should work again.  (You use Esc X to send M-X
to Emacs, of course.)

>Also the arrow keys do not work in the applications.

The arrow keys work fine for me.  Check the TERM environment variable
on the Unix box and make sure it thinks you're a VT100 or similar terminal.

BTW, the version is 5A(189), not 1.89 :-)  C-Kermit has weird version numbers.
--
Chris Madsen           [e-mail]               GEnie: C.MADSEN

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 02:58:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00702
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:54:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04740
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:53:59 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!tsltor!louk
From: [e-mail] (Lou Kates)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Teleride Sage Ltd.
References: <[e-mail]> <36q981$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 02:58:22 GMT
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36q981$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>It's true, Keith did suggest changing Kermit to shareware.  And various
>other people suggested charging for support, setting up 900 numbers, and
>so on.  Our many well-wishers do not understand the detailed organizational
>and legal constraints under which we operate.  I will only say that I have
>not seen a suggestion posted in this discussion, or mailed to me privately,
>that I did not already think of myself years ago.

Timo hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that you are not likely
going to solve the problem until you understand what the problem is.

What are these detailed organizational and legal constraints under which
you operate which supposedly prevent you from simply charging for support
or implementing other solutions which seem to make a lot more sense than
restricting distribution?

Perhaps if you spelled them out so that we can all understand
these barriers then we could all creatively figure out a way around them.

Lou Kates, [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 04:13:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02009
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 00:13:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06448
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 00:13:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux2.cso.uiuc.edu!shair
From: [e-mail] (Bob Shair)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: C-Kermit for OS/2 and "set send start"
Date: 6 Oct 1994 04:13:56 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 42
Message-Id: <36vti4$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ux2.cso.uiuc.edu
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm attempting to do Kermit file transfer through a particularly
obstinate controller which has no transparent mode (a RS/6000 runnin HCON).

Following the model on p.136 of Using C-Kermit, I begin by telling my OS/2
system:
[C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set parity even
[C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set send start 58

?Not in ASCII control range - 58
?Invalid: set send start 58
(It complains)..

I'm in local mode on OS/2 2.99 (Warp II Beta)
running over a V42 56/14.4Kbps dialup link to the 6000.
Version of C-Kermit is:
C-Kermit 5A(190) BETA.16. 7 Aug 94 for OS/2
 C-Kermit Protocol Module 5A(068), 31 Jul 94
 C-Kermit functions, 5A(117) 30 Jul 94
 Command package 5A(062), 24 Jul 94
 User Interface 5A(145), 7 Aug 94
 Character Set Translation 5A(022), 24 Jan 94
 OS/2 CONNECT command 5A(152), 5 Aug 94
 Dial Command, 5A(060) 7 Aug 94
 Script Command, 5A(022) 7 Aug 93
 Network support, 5A(036) 7 Aug 94
 OS/2 Network support, 5A(028) 5 Aug 94
 OS/2 NetBios support, 5A(008) 22 Jul 94
 OS/2 Mouse Support 5A(002), 5 Aug 94

It's probably something that I don't understand properly.  When I fire up
C-Kermit 190 on the 6000 (in remote mode) the set start command is accepted.

C-Kermit 5A(190) ALPHA.02, 10 Apr 94, for IBM RS/6000 AIX 3.2
Type ? or HELP for help
C-Kermit>set send start 58
C-Kermit>

--

Bob Shair                          [e-mail]
Open Systems Specialist           SHAIR@UIUCVMD (bitnet)
Champaign, Illinois           217/356-2684

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 05:41:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06706
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:47:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11078
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:47:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz
From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 05:41:00 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36vh1v$[e-mail]>
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos) writes:
>I'm not denying that.  But what about all of the other examples that I
>listed?  All of them are definitely breaking your documentation rules.
>So, will you or won't you be getting rid of them, and refusing to keep
>them on SimTel until they change their documentation?

The other programs you listed are documented in the GNU distribution
which is available from SimTel's primary mirror site OAK.Oakland.Edu,
and most of its mirrors.  Since they are on the same site that meets the
criteria.

If you find any other programs in the msdos collection which lack
documentation please send me a list by e-mail and I will immediately
delete them.                        ^^^^^^^^^

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 15:12:25 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09666
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:02:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13646
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:02:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 15:12:25 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 39
Message-Id: <36rrcp$[e-mail]>
References: <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten) writes:
:As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to
:throw caution to the winds and add my comments.

And a very good and balanced posting it is.

:I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
:and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
:likely to kill the Kermit effort.  All resources would have to go to
:support and no further development.  I'm sure that the Kermit group would

This is the fallacy that besets this dilemma.  The problem in likely
to gradually get worse whether or not CD-ROM distribution is
accepted by Columbia.  The only difference is that it will get worse
just a bit more quickly if CD-ROM distribution is involved.

It is not for me to try to dictate what Columbia should do, but I
can try to help my friends by pointing out that it is useful them to
list all the alternatives dispassionately and consider their pros
and cons financially and workloadwise.

The problem will not disappear with non-CDROM distribution.  It will
not disappear if for example SimTel and Garbo CDROMs were allowed.
It will not even disappear if and when I shut up.  The cause is in
the exponential grown of computer users with an interest in products
like Kermit.  If there is no cost, user demand for free services
always finally will exceed the supply, and anyone with a basic
economics course will know.  There is no suplly-demand equiligbrium
at zero price.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland



From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 17:36:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10900
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14535
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:34 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 17:36:41 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <36s3r9$[e-mail]>
References: <36pipa$[e-mail]> <36r5d2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
:Timo,
:    Why must Frank be coerced into changing the practices of Kermit
:distribution?  Frank is repeating the same position simply because that
:*is* his position.  He is unnecessarily under fire.

Wherever did you get that notion, dear Ken?  I am not coercing Frank
to do anything he is not willing to do.  Economic realities and his
limited time (only 24 hours a day) to allocate to give support may,
however, do so in the long run.  I may be right, I may be wrong,
but I predict (I cannot know) that Columbia's solution will not be
viable.  What I forecast is that they will sooner or later have to
find ways to charge for at least part of the support.

Telling about realities of life as I see them is not putting someone
under fire.  Have you seen me make any DEMANDS on Frank during this
discussion?

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 17:44:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10905
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14540
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 17:44:28 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <36s49s$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36r5rk$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
:The bigger problem is that it's Columbia's business to concern themselves
:with it and Frank's business to concern himself with it.  It's *not* our
:concern.

:The existance of the discussion is painful to Frank as he is getting
:blasted left and right for sticking to what he feels is best.  He DOESN'T
:want to turn Kermit into a commercial venture.

Frank, if you truly feel about this as Ken here assumes, that I have
overstepped the line and that I am on your back, I promise to
unsubscribe comp.protocols.kermit.misc the very second you ask me
to.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 01:23:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10993
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:35:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14640
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:35:19 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <36vjgs$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <36vjgs$[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 1994 01:23:41 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Message-Id: <36vjit$[e-mail]>
References: <36r5d2$[e-mail]> <36t5r6$[e-mail]> <36vjgs$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<36vjgs$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

s:
:   [...very interesting argument deleted...]
:
:This posting proves that it made sense to carry on this humungous thread
:about _free_ kermit. It is a management problem. Columbia has a problem

:Frank, I hope to encourage you this way, because I feel a lot for
:you guys, and Kermit.
:
:Timo, feel free to give us some more thoughts on management of the Kermit
:project.

Thank you for the very nice posting.  I think, however, that I have
already about covered all the essential points that I had.  For the
time being I do not have anything additional to contribute without
repeating myself.

My compliments for everyone for participating in a constructive
manner, which is the way we should always manage to work on the
Usenet news.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 08:40:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15713
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 05:51:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18986
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 05:51:19 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!philapd!apdnews!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot
From: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 94 08:40:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36ulqo$[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Lines: 57
X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <36ulqo$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henk de Groot) writes:
>>Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as
>>far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up.
>>  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]
>
>Ahhh...  DEC.  Aren't you the guys that are shipping Kermit on CD-ROM
>[...]
>
>Hey, your stock is rebounding a bit -- you can afford it.
>
>-Mike

Hello Mike,

I don't understand your followup.

Two things for comment:

1)

I work for Digital but I have nothing to do with the Alpha-AXP OSF/2 Cdroms
or whatever CD-ROM Digital is publishing. Digital is a company with more
than 80000 employees, you can't blame a single person for everything Digital
does.

You made an assumption that Kermit on the Freeware CD-ROM is there
without permission of Columbia University. I don't know if that is true but
I would like to know where you got this information from. If you are just
guessing I suggest you shut up and first get your facts straight. I saw
that you are harassing SUN employees also, the same applies there. If you
have your facts please inform Digital, SUN or Columbia through propper
chanels, not through posting employees of either companies.

(Usual disclaimers apply, I don't/can't speak for Digital (or SUN).)

2)

I'm trying to suggest a solution to this problem. There are two parties,
Columbia University and the Major Archive sites. Your comment doesn't
contribute in any way to solve this problem, it mearly creates redundant
noice in the group. I suggest that you make a contribution or shut up.


I will not follow up on this or discus this any further, it is off topic
and I'm nog going to speak for either Digital nor SUN, my suggestions were
my own. If you have facts, send them to Columbia, Digital or SUN.

Kind Regards,


Henk.

--
  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]
 /---/ __  __  /  Tel: [phone] | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation
/   / (-_ / / /(  Loc: FP-B09        | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 11:11:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18823
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 07:39:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22865
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 07:39:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!Germany.EU.net!Munich.Germany.EU.net!thoth.mch.sni.de!fam168!not-for-mail
From: Frank Hoffmann <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 6 Oct 1994 12:11:04 +0100
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG, Munich, Germany
Lines: 42
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <370m08$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fam168.mch.sni.de
Apparently-To: [e-mail]



            * Sigh *



I kept quiet until now, but ....

As far as I can see, we're in a deadlock situation here. I have the utmost
respect for Timo, Keith, Frank and all the other guys providing the net-
community with fine software and great services.

Since the quarrel about the CD-ROM distribution has been discussed for
quite some time here in the opening and in private between the concerned
parties, I would vote to end it now and here.

Right now nothing seeems to change anyway and if one or the other changes
his/her mind, I believe we all will be notified in this group or the other.

If and how the copyright concept affects the Kermit distribution and/or usage
everywhere remains to be seen, but I grant Frank the right to see it his way
as well as I respect the decisions of Keith and Timo.

It is everybodys right to feel unhappy about this. Anyway, I think we have
heard the respective views and even if we would like to, we (meaning the
bystanders, not the involved parties) cannot change it.

So, please, accept the decisions made and even if you can't accept, don't
post anymore something like "Waahh, I'm unhappy with this" etc.pp.


These are just my very own $.02

Kind regards
+frank
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Frank Hoffmann +++ Siemens Nixdorf Germany
        Voice: [phone] +++ Fx: [phone]
           Senior network controller +++ System administrator
          E-Mail: [e-mail] +++ [e-mail]
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       The Light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an oncoming train.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 12:51:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23900
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:20:19 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28289
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:20:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!scipio.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 6 Oct 1994 12:51:40 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 34
Message-Id: <370rss$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos) writes:

>Well, what about TeX/LaTeX, and the implementations of it that exist?
>With those programs it's the exact same thing--everything is publically
>available, but if you want to know every little thing, you need to
>purchase the TeXbook, LaTeX-A Document Preparation System, and ideally,
>The LaTeX Companion.  Does this mean that you'll be getting rid of the
>DOS version of TeX that exists on SimTel?

1. There are no restriction to distribute those program on CD-ROMs.
   This is the most important part.
2. There are documentations for LaTeX and the like and their distribution
   are not restricted. I've seen Kermit's on-line documentation, but
   now they intentionally pull it out of the distribution.
   In a way, intentionally crippling the electronic distribution
   which is claimed to be free.

...
>Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't
>any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book?

I think he was saying that the Kermit's team intentionally took
the electronic/on-line documentation forcing the people to buy the book.
Both parties have valid aruments.

[Does book sales have *that* large revenue ? Would the book sale
be able to pay the salary of one full-time worker ?
Wow, for sure I am going to write a book]

-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  6 01:05:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26454
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:49:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29966
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:49:15 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!wizard.pn.com!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr
From: [e-mail] (Dick Wisan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: How IS Kermit paid for?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Oct 94 20:05:54 -0500
Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE
Lines: 33
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

It looks to me as if the brouhaha about Kermit on CDROM & SimTel, &c
turns on the question how Kermit is paid for.  If it were shareware,
CDROM would be welcome because exposure is what brings registrations.
If it were a straight commercial program, NO distribution without
charge would be permitted.  If it were fully subsidized, CDROM &c.
would be mostly harmless.  Trying to follow the logic of all these
exchanges, it finally gets through to me, I have no idea how Kermit
is paid for?  I think I have been assuming that Columbia picks up the
tab, though recalling the tuition they use to charge me (many years
ago), I suppose I should have known better.

I got MS Kermit 3.13 free from either SimTel or from SIMTEL20, its US
Government subsidized predecessor.  Should I have paid something?  Who
has to pay for it?  Who does pay for it?  How does keeping it off CDROMs
help?

Frank da Cruz doesn't owe us explanations.  He doesn't have to respond
to anything on this newsgroup unless he feels like it.  The idea of
opening it up unmoderated wasn't to shower him with chores.  The idea
was we could kick around our ideas and problems *without* the Columbia
crew having to put time on it.  We can even complain and try to explain
to each other about Columbia's policies.  On the other hand, if he looks
into the group and sees postings that make him unhappy --well, we didn't
make him look.

Now with all that for preface, making no claim of right to an answer, may
I suggest it might help if someone would explain how the Kermit operation
gets its funds.

--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan  - Email: internet [e-mail]
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 13:43:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26568
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00220
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:13 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ariel!nicks
From: [e-mail] (Nick Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Date: 6 Oct 1994 23:43:06 +1000
Organization: University of Melbourne
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <nicks.781450918@ariel>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Bill Chinn) writes:

>Hello,

>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
>Windows/NT?

>If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here
>who would love to beta test it.

>I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support
>for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit.

>Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this
>info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get.
>--Bill

Kermit is built into the Windows NT Terminal.  I've used it to
transfer files from my local university to my home PC with no
troubles.


=============================================================
= Nick Smith    Account Manager - Century Analysis, Inc.    =
= Specializing in Client-Server Information Integration     =
= 110 Albert Street, Suite 3                                =
= East Melbourne, VIC  3002                                 =
= Australia                  [e-mail] =
=============================================================

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 13:39:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26574
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00241
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Kerry Schwab)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: CR translation in telnet connection
Date: 6 Oct 1994 07:39:05 -0600
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <370ulp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <367bso$[e-mail]> <36kk5l$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: nyx.cs.du.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>In article <367bso$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>
|> [e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)  writes:
|> > I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and
|> > then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul
|> > translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs,
|> > when all I want to send is a plain CR.
|> >
|> The makers of the Ethergate should read RFC854.
|>
|> However, this is becoming such a pervasive problem that the forthcoming
|> releases of MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit will add an option,
|> SET TELNET NEWLINE-MODE RAW, to allow carriage returns to be sent
|> bare, with no LF or NUL stuffed after them as required by the TELNET
|> NVT specification (RFC854).
|>
>

To be fair to the terminal server folks, I had the same problem, but it was
because the thing wanted an rlogin connection...(so I spoofed it).

--
Kerry

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 14:29:58 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29589
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:30:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02896
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:30:07 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 6 Oct 1994 14:29:58 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <3711l6$[e-mail]>
References: <370rss$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <370rss$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
Rahardjo) writes:
> 2. There are documentations for LaTeX and the like and their distribution
>    are not restricted. I've seen Kermit's on-line documentation, but
>    now they intentionally pull it out of the distribution.
>    In a way, intentionally crippling the electronic distribution
>    which is claimed to be free.
>
This claim has been made repeatedly, but it isn't true.  Kermit has better
online documentation than most other software, and we have never pulled any
of it off our server.  For example, the help file whose first couple lines
were displayed recently is 74K long, and it is accompanied by an "update"
file that is 55K long and a "hints and tips" file that is 134K long.  Most
people get by just fine using these documentation files, and never bother
to consult the printed manuals, as many users have attested.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 14:36:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29991
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:36:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03588
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:36:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: C-Kermit for OS/2 and "set send start"
Date: 6 Oct 1994 14:36:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <37120l$[e-mail]>
References: <36vti4$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36vti4$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bob Shair) writes:
> I'm attempting to do Kermit file transfer through a particularly
> obstinate controller which has no transparent mode (a RS/6000 runnin HCON).
>
> Following the model on p.136 of Using C-Kermit, I begin by telling my OS/2
> system:
> [C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set parity even
> [C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set send start 58
> ?Not in ASCII control range - 58
>
This was fixed subsequent to the Alpha version you are using.  Please pick
up the final Beta version from host:

  kermit.columbia.edu

directory:

  kermit/test/bin

binary mode, file:

  cko190.zip

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 15:25:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04366
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:25:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07761
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:25:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Funding Kermit
Date: 6 Oct 1994 15:25:49 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <3714tt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I hope everybody realizes how absurd this discussion is.

It seems we have reached the level at which everyone finally
understands that the Kermit effort must be funded.  So the
debate now hinges on exactly how that is to be accomplished.
Everyone seems genuinely concerned that we find an effective
funding model.  How about this one:

  PURCHASE THE APPROPRIATE MANUALS

In other words, put up or shut up.  I'm sorry, does that sound
rude?  Look at it this way.  If you agree that everyone who uses
Kermit software should pay her/his fair share, then that includes
you, personally -- each and every one of you.  We already have a
funding model, and we ask you to respect it.  Most of you do not.

If you use Kermit software but you have not respected our wishes
in this regard, then you have no business telling us how
to run our business.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 13:56:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06141
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:48:24 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09236
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:48:16 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
References: <36r5d2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36s3r9$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 13:56:51 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 64
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36s3r9$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>:Timo,
>:    Why must Frank be coerced into changing the practices of Kermit
>:distribution?  Frank is repeating the same position simply because that
>:*is* his position.  He is unnecessarily under fire.

>Telling about realities of life as I see them is not putting someone
>under fire.  Have you seen me make any DEMANDS on Frank during this
>discussion?

When I listen to Frank, I see a man who is a dreamer and a doer.  I've
read everything online that I can find about Kermit, over the past few years.
In everything that Frank has written about Kermit, I have seen *passion*
and *drive*, to make this world a better place through intercommunications.

Through Kermit, Frank has managed to get computers hooked together that,
previously weren't talking to one another.  Implimenting a very simply
protocol, with simple mechanisms, with very sound concepts and ideas, and
the most backward compatability I have *ever* seen in *any* product - it
has never been done before Kermit, and NOTHING of its scope has been done
since.

Kermit is a specialized product, servicing the needs of people who need
to communicate with dissimilar devices, and not the needs of a mass
audience.  I can't picture a sudden *rush* in the use of Kermit, unless
it starts getting distributed in a common medium like CD-ROM.  How will
the new rush of people that you speak of be getting Kermit?

If they're getting it through FTP sites, they will have system
administrators and local gurus to help out.

If they're getting it in their business usage or university, they have
sysadmins and gurus to help out.

Local BBS's too, have their gurus.  (if nothing else, the person who
uploaded the file to the BBS must know *something* about Kermit).

People that buy the software with the book have what they need in their
hands.

But CD-ROM - I'm sorry, but CD-ROMmers are generally lone wolves.  BBS's
have community.  The Internet has community.  Businesses and Universities
have community.


And what does this have to do with my defense of Frank?  He sounds like
an optimist and a dreamer in everything I've seen him write about Kermit,
UNTIL this discussion began.  He started to sound defeated...
depressed... lonely because the fun... the dream and vision vanishes when
under attack.

Frank has his policies, and good sound reason for them.  He's explained
it 100 times here - HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DEFEND HIMSELF.

Thanks for listening.


Ken
[e-mail]
listowner of [e-mail] - discussion on the rights of kids/teens
listowner of the new weekly Optimism Digest - [e-mail]
To subscribe, send e-mail to: [e-mail] (SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU)
with the message: SUB Y-RIGHTS (or OPTIMISM) Firstname Lastname

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 14:27:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06516
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:55:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09805
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:55:47 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dove!venus.nist.gov!enh.nist.gov!reflib
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K
Date: 6 OCT 94 14:27:15 GMT
Organization: NIST
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: enh.nist.gov
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

  My recent assertion that Kermit takes its name from the Muppet
has been challenged.

  Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no
explanation of the acronym was given.

  Can we get an official answer from Frank da Cruz?

  Thank you.

[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 15:12:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07340
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:09:02 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10723
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:09:00 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (JOHN M. TROIANO)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Windows Kermit question
Date: 6 Oct 1994 11:12:32 -0400
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <371450$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ns2.cc.lehigh.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi,

        I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3,
5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function
keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application
that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on
these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break"
(ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the
latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it
was written this way?

Thanks in advance!


---------------------------------------------------------------------
John M. Troiano
Lehigh University Computing Center         Internet: [e-mail]
Bethlehem, PA


---------------------------------------------------------------------
John M. Troiano                               phone: [phone]
Lehigh University Computing Center              fax: [phone]


From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 14:42:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10393
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:43:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13341
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:43:40 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
References: <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:42:49 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 33
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>
>I think he was saying that the Kermit's team intentionally took
>the electronic/on-line documentation forcing the people to buy the book.
>Both parties have valid aruments.
>
>[Does book sales have *that* large revenue ? Would the book sale
>be able to pay the salary of one full-time worker ?
>Wow, for sure I am going to write a book]

Budi,

    Why are you treating Frank like a bad guy?  He is one man, with a
small team of developers - NOT some big company.  To top it off, Budi,
you are being sarcastic to him -in front of his face-.  There is nothing
ruder that I can think of.

Outside of trying trash the beauty of Kermit, which exists on hundreds of
vastly diverse computer types, allowing the big and the small to talk...
the great equalizer which does something networks have not done -
something even terminal emulators haven't done.

Sure, Zmodem seems faster.  But try transferring files from your color
computer to your PC.  Or from your TOPS-20 to a DECSERVER.  How about
from an Alpha to a Zenith-100?

Only ONE, truly portable protocol.  Kermit.

Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by
people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"?


Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 16:44:30 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14763
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 13:38:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17767
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 13:38:03 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson
From: [e-mail] (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: "No Manual, No Support"
Date: 06 Oct 1994 16:44:30 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hey Frank, how about only supporting people who have purchased the
Kermit manual?

 1) It generates the income you need to support Kermit.
 2) It's reasonable.  Why should you help someone who hasn't bothered
    to help themselves first?

You can serialize new manuals, and ask current manual holders to send
in the manual's copyright page (with an SASE) to be serialized.  Then,
if you get a request for help without a valid serial number, refuse it.

--
-russ <[e-mail]>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | [phone] (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 17:51:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20183
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:42:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04825
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:42:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Funding Kermit
Date: 6 Oct 1994 12:51:55 -0500
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 76
Message-Id: <371dfr$[e-mail]>
References: <3714tt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3714tt$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I hope everybody realizes how absurd this discussion is.

Not at all.  I suppose it is absurd to talk when it is obvious that
the intended target is making a point of not listening but otherwise
it is a decision that affects a lot of people adversely and you should
expect them to react accordingly.

>Everyone seems genuinely concerned that we find an effective
>funding model.  How about this one:
>
>  PURCHASE THE APPROPRIATE MANUALS

How is this different from straight shareware with the manual on
the disk, other than being more difficult for everyone involved?  I think
Russ Nelson was exactly on target when he pointed out that restricting
distribution unfairly puts the burden on the people who can least
afford it and also reduces the number of people who will use the program.

>If you use Kermit software but you have not respected our wishes
>in this regard, then you have no business telling us how
>to run our business.

Come on - what would you say if *any* commercial business made a statement
like that?  Or non-commercial for that matter?  Or even the government?

I appreciate the effort that has gone into maintaining the kermit line.
However, disagreeing with your distribution policy is an unrelated issue.
I have made a bug-fix or two myself and you'll find my name among the
hundreds in the C-kermit listing.  The fixes were trivial (but necessary
for what I wanted to do), but the time to find the problems was not, and
I appreciate not having to repeat the process after each release.  I
have at least three copies of the ms-dos kermit book floating around in
my office that came bundled with some commercial software and if the added
cost helped fund the improvements that is fine with me.  However, it is
not a simple issue: the books are always out of date and thus not much help
with your actual problems, and the software package that included them has
never been popular so you have to wonder if this was in part due to the
extra cost of the book.

I have no particular financial interest one way or another since I have
arranged ftp access (made possible largely by my location...). However
I think the world needs a communication protocol that is freely available
to everyone and if it isn't going to be kermit, perhaps someone will
come up with something else.

I think the issue of free vs. non-free access should revolve around whether
it is appropriate for the files to be on ftp.uu.net.  This site exists
specifically to provide access to the internet for people who are not
directly connected, and they make a profit from providing this access.
They are very good at mirroring files from master locations so there is
no issue of out-of-date copies here.  The files can, of course, also
be ftp'd directly from there at no cost, so there can be no question
about them selling anything other than an alternative access method.  They
also offer the service of putting the entire machine's archives on a tape
for you.  Again, simply an alternative access method.  Plus, they will
ftp something specifically for you if they don't normally archive it.
And, of course, you can coax a third-party ftpmail server to cough up
just about anything through uunet and they'll get the same fee for the
recipient's connect time.

There are some very messy issues here. Is calling kermit "free" a
misrepresentation?  Is a distribution service acting as an agent for
the recipient and thus able to perform any copy that the recipient
could do himself?  Why does it make a difference if this agent makes
a profit or not?  Or if it provides IP connectivity instead of some
other media?  Like it or not, the decisions on these issues are going
to affect the future of kermit usage.  I've often wondered why no one
has bundled an off-line email package along with scripted kermit
communications as an obvious low-budget talk-to-any-host solution.
Now I see that it couldn't be distributed through any media usable
by the people who need such a thing...

Les Mikesell
  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 06:41:07 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20989
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:52:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05658
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:52:54 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 06:41:07 GMT
Expires: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT
Lines: 36
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.

The point that Frank has made several times in this discussion is not only
the funding of kermit through book sales, but also the load that is put
on the developers to provide support - of all kinds, not only telephone
but also email, and others.  I would turn your stement around a bit; while
it may be true that some more books will be sold because of distribution
on various CD-ROM and other media, that will be totally out of proportion
to the increase in support demands on Columbia from people who get kermit
from these other sources and do *not* buy the book.  So the result will be
a dramatic increase in workload to provide support at Columbia, with a very
small increase in revenue.  In fact, I personally believe that the increase
in revenue would be virtually nil, because I believe that overwhelming
majority of people would never even consider buying or reading the book
when they got the software this way.

>My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep
>you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit
>motive.

My impression is that Frank and the development group at Columbia have a
very difficult job to do with extremely limited resources, and they are
trying to keep people from making it a lot more difficult and limiting
the resources even further.  My impression of the people who are involved
in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable;
the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive
and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other"
is completely bogus, in my opinion.  My impression of the rest of those
who have been flaming Frank about this is that they are a typical bunch
of net.people looking for chance to be flame someone.  They say that one
way to feel "bigger" is by standing on someone else.

jw

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 18:00:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26168
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:54:02 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10434
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:54:00 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!gatekeeper.us.oracle.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!bora-bora.pa.dec.com!flaherty
From: [e-mail] (Paul Flaherty)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 6 Oct 94 18:00:09 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA, USA
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bora-bora.pa.dec.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:

>No.  That's what this whole discussion is about.  You must purchase the
>Kermit book to get the documentation because Columbia withdrew it from
>free distribution several years ago.  This makes it impossible to use
>all of Kermit's features unless you pay US$34.95 for the documentation.

That's a pretty sweeping generalization, and wrong, too.  All of the features
are documented online, and the more sticky issues are discussed in the .BWR
files.  And of course, there's always the source code, which provides better
documentation than some of the shareware that's out there...

The book is really only necessary as a suppliment, or for folks who are totally
new to telecomputing.

--
-=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX |     "Just name a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."
->[e-mail]     |          -- Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 20:23:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04670
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:19:52 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18314
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:19:48 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo
From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 6 Oct 1994 20:23:27 GMT
Organization: HP InterWorks Member
Lines: 59
Message-Id: <371mbv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36ulqo$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henk de Groot) writes:

>>Ahhh...  DEC.  Aren't you the guys that are shipping Kermit on CD-ROM
>>Hey, your stock is rebounding a bit -- you can afford it.
>I don't understand your followup.

Call it a bad attempt at humor.  I'm just glad to see DEC finally
starting to recover, but that's a separate issue entirely.  :-)

>I work for Digital but I have nothing to do with the Alpha-AXP OSF/2 Cdroms
>or whatever CD-ROM Digital is publishing. Digital is a company with more
>than 80000 employees, you can't blame a single person for everything Digital
>does.

No, of course not -- I wasn't trying to make you out to represent anyone
other than yourself.  I was suggesting that this problem goes beyond
Simtel and Garbo, and that some of the offenders are in your back yard.
(Well, at least virtually speaking.)  I'm sorry if my point wasn't as
spelled out as it could have been.  It probably makes more sense in
the context of my other messages.

>You made an assumption that Kermit on the Freeware CD-ROM is there
>without permission of Columbia University. I don't know if that is true but
>I would like to know where you got this information from. If you are just
>guessing I suggest you shut up and first get your facts straight. I saw
>that you are harassing SUN employees also, the same applies there. If you
>have your facts please inform Digital, SUN or Columbia through propper
>chanels, not through posting employees of either companies.

My presumption was based on the fact that Frank had said that there
were no deals made with anyone manufacturing CD-ROMs to distribute
Kermit on them.  Here's the pertinent words from Frank:

 From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
 Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:14:42 GMT
 Message-ID: <36h302$[e-mail]>

 If it is on ANY CDROM, it is there without our permission, as we have never
 yet negotiated a successful agreement with any CDROM distributor.  Read on
 and see why (as if I have explained this seventeen times already).

>(Usual disclaimers apply, I don't/can't speak for Digital (or SUN).)

Of course not -- sorry if it was presented the wrong way.  I just
don't see the sense in asking Keith and Timo to bend, when they're
clearly not the only players involved.

>I'm trying to suggest a solution to this problem. There are two parties,
>Columbia University and the Major Archive sites. Your comment doesn't
>contribute in any way to solve this problem, it mearly creates redundant
>noice in the group. I suggest that you make a contribution or shut up.

There aren't just two parties, and this is going to come up time and time
again.  Next it'll be the FreeBSD CD-ROM people.  Or some other FTP site.
I'm certainly not an attorney, and feel free to correct me if I am full
of it, but if Kermit doesn't protect its copyright, does it lose it?

-Mike


From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 19:02:18 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10631
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 18:49:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25113
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 18:49:40 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Windows Kermit question
References: <371450$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:02:18 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 33
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <371450$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (JOHN M. TROIANO) writes:
>Hi,
>
>        I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3,
>5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function
>keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application
>that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on
>these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break"
>(ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the
>latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it
>was written this way?
>
>Thanks in advance!

Dear John,

    I'm not an official anything in regards to Kermit, outside of
official supporter (cheerleading team, so to speak).  From what Frank and
the Kermit team say, the Windows versions of Kermit aren't supported by
the authors or Columbia University.  However, they fully support
MS-Kermit 3.13 (soon 3.14) in a DOS window under Windows.

My suggestion is to (I know it's a pain :-> ) switch to MS-Kermit 3.13,
as it's much more robust in features and is supported and updated by the
Kermit people :-)

(I know little about the Windows Kermit implimentation, so I can't really
comment on it, outside of what Kermit representatives have said :-> )


Ken
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 19:51:08 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13394
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:32:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28342
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:32:32 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Useful Kermit Stuff.
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:51:08 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 44
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Does anyone have any useful Kermit stuff?  Scripts, Macros, add-on utilities
(such as the GOLD.COM that now comes with MS-Kermit), and the like?

Here's something I found out of the archives of the Kermit-Info mailing
list, from 1990-sometime.

================>8 cut here and your monitor will surely blow up 8<==========

[Somebody asked whether or not it was possible to APPEND using MS-Kermit
as you can in other versions.  The response from the Editor was a macro!]


The software that she uses will produce a voice rendition of the document
after she downloads it.

[Ed. - You could define a macro to do it, like this:

define fatal if defined \%1 echo \%1, stop 1

define append,-
  if not defined \%1 fatal {Usage: append filename}
  receive kermit.tmp,-
  if fail stop 1,-
  if exist \%1 run copy \%1+kermit.tmp kermit2.tmp,-
  if not exist \%1 copy kermit.tmp kermit2.tmp,-
  if exist \%1 delete \%1,-
  run rename kermit2.tmp \%1,-
  delete kermit.tmp

Put this macro definition in the user's MSCUSTOM.INI file, and then tell her
to use the command:

APPEND FILENAME.TXT

instead of RECEIVE FILENAME.TXT



Anyone have other neat macros, etc. that they'd like to trade?


Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 23:47:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14961
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:12:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01150
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:12:29 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!serval.net.wsu.edu!wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu!MSIMONDS
From: [e-mail]
Subject: script for redialing
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:47:36 GMT
Lines: 10
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am a new user of PC-Kermit ver 3.11.  I want to know if anybody has a script
file that will make the modem redial?









From [e-mail] Wed Oct  5 06:48:33 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15098
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:14:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01266
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:14:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Information display during transfers
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Oct 94 12:48:33 MDT
References: <36uibd$[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 28
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36uibd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Handel) writes:
> I recently started using MS-Kermit 3.13 to connect from my home PC
> (a Dell XPS P60) to my Sun login at my university. The Kermit at
> the Sun end seems to be C-Kermit and the information
> "4D(061) 8 Sep 86, 4.2 BSD" appears when it is summoned up.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^------- long in the tooth, I'd say. But it works!

> I have experienced inconsistencies in the information display during
> file transfer. Sometimes during a transfer the percentage of the
> transfer completed is displayed (sometimes digitally, sometimes in
> a linear graphical fashion), and other times this piece of information
> is not displayed at all. I am not aware of any variations in my
> procedure which would cause these differences. Can anyone explain?
> Are there measures I can take to ensure that the percent completed
> information is always displayed?
---------
    To show the MSK therometer or the digital % done an MSK receiver
has to know the file size being sent. File size and time/date information
and character set (text) and so on are conveyed in Kermit file attributes
packets at the start of each file. Not all Kermits support attributes
packets, and hence that info may be missing. The CKermit of 1986 vintage
did not have them, nor did the MSK of that vintage. They do today.
    A file transmitter has this information, locally, and can show
the visual teasers.
    May I warmly recommend upgrading your C Kermit to the current,
the current beta as a matter of fact, as discussed on this list. Attributes
packets are present.
    Joe D

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 16:34:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15242
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01627
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:13 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 94 22:34:38 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <36kaa4$[e-mail]> <36l69c$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 46
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:
> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
>>Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here.
>
> Ok, here it is.  I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it.
>
> Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, with voluntary payment for
> individuals and required payment for commercial and school use (i.e.,
> a site license).  If Columbia charged $300 for a site license, even if
> there were only 1,000 customers, the income produced would be $300,000
> per year.
    <part omitted>
> Keith Petersen
> General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
> Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
> Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND
------------
Keith,
    Even though you and I have worked together in small ways for years
I have to say this bluntly. Readers are warned this message contains
language material not suitable for children.
    I write MS-DOS Kermit. Just so readers know who's who in this
discussion. I put a tremendous effort, and my neck, into this project.
I have a say in what goes on here.
     We discussed the above topic at length privately with you, it was
discussed on the list in public, and the suggestion was declined for good
reasons.
    Yet today you first cast stones on decent publications, I will presume
only the naive will fall for that one, and then you try to raise a hew and cry
in public. I regard both actions as deliberately destructive. I expected
better of you.
     We appreciate and want suggestions and intelligent discussion; this
list has had many fine examples of both. Your messages today are neither. You
will not pressure me and other volunteers on how to sell our own time and
effort. You will not slander our work.
    Do you read me Mr. Petersen?

    My appologies to the other readers for having to speak this way in
public.
        Despite what some of the people out there may think, Frank and I and
the many other Kermit volunteers hear what you are saying, and we are trying
hard to continue a large successful project lasting many years and affecting
very large numbers of people.
    I will now go back to work so the Z-100 version of MSK 3.14 will
be ready for beta testing asap.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 01:54:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15257
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01639
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How to catch SHIFT-ESC in kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Oct 94 07:54:43 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 40
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Henk de Groot) writes:
> Hello Kermit users,
>
> I have a problem. Our kermit version is MS-Kermit 3.13 with a patch file with
> 21 patches in it.
>
> We have to build an application that has to responds to the key combination
> SHIFT-ESC. In the key-table you can catch many key combinations but I am
> unable to map SHIFT-ESC to something different than ESC alone so I can't
> make a distinction between ESC with or without SHIFT.
>
> Is there a way to make it work? It is no problem to do this with other
> keys (like function keys), only ESC seems to behave differently. I can
> calculate what keycode SHIFT-ESC should have (scancode 1 + 256 + 512 = 769)
> but
>
>     set key \852 hello
>
> works for SHIFT+F1 (outputs hello) but
>
>     set key \769 hello
>
> doesn't work for SHIFT+ESC!
>
> When redefining the ESC key itself by
>
>     set key \27 hello
>
> also SHIFT+ESC outputs hello! (B.T.W. "set key \257 hello" doesn't work
> either, so we can not make a distinction between ESC and Ctrl-[ too, but
> that's not a problem for us at this moment).
>
> Any suggestions to solve this problem are welcome (We also tried the product
> KEATerm under Windows and that one will do it correctly; we need something
> running under DOS however!)
---------
Henk,
    I added that this morning to MSK v3.14 beta. <Alt, Shift, Control> Esc
are now distinguishable.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 04:31:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15347
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:19:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01734
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:19:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Undocumented kermit server commands?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 94 10:31:00 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> I've looked in "Kermit, A file transfer protocol" but I cannot find
> docuemntation of what the "REMOTE SET" command sends to the server.
>
> It appears to send a kermit generic command (packet type "G") with a
> command "S".
>
> I have assumed that this is equivlent to a command "V", subcommand
> "S". Am I right?
>
> Is there a table anywhere that list the standard variable names
> (numbers?).
>
> I would go look in the source myself but I read somewhere that
> because I'm incorporating support for kermit protocols into another
> program I'm not allowed to even *look at* the sources!
----------
    I see no problem using the sources to decipher the protocol, but
of course the particular implementation sources remain copyright. It's up
to you to play the game properly.
    Common sense suggests reading the spec updates, as Frank indicated,
and then running against Columbia Kermits for verification tests. The LOG
PACKET facility in Columbia Kermits shows packets going in both directions
for a little reverse engineering information if that's needed. The specs
are open to everyone, free of charge.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 04:49:44 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15524
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01808
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ibm.mtsac.edu!1CMC3466
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 11:49:44 PDT
References: <[e-mail]> <3699u3$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mt. San Antonio College
Nntp-Posting-Host: 140.144.202.50
X-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3699u3$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:

>
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
>>University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.
>
>Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on
>a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely?
>
>Les Mikesell
>  [e-mail]

    Isn't that a contradiction in terms? a program that is supposed to be
 _FREE_ yet was being put in a package that was sold for a _profit_.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 02:59:25 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15540
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01819
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Oct 94 08:59:25 MDT
References: <36jr4b$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36jr4b$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Center / NT) writes:
> One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with
> NDIS compliant ethernet adapters.
>
> Where can I find this?
>
> Joel    [e-mail]
------------
    We will be distributing a copy with MSK v3.14. Home base for the
file is my place, netlab2.usu.edu, cd drivers.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 07:05:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15555
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:21:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01822
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Windows Kermit question
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 94 13:05:54 MDT
References: <371450$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 20
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <371450$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (JOHN M. TROIANO) writes:
> Hi,
>
>         I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3,
> 5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function
> keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application
> that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on
> these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break"
> (ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the
> latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it
> was written this way?
----------
    The program was written more as a demonstration for Windows workers
than as a mainline production tool. It was a subset of mainline Kermits when
it was written. It has not been updated and lacks support. Given these factors
and its vintage we recommend that you use MS-DOS Kermit in Windows (it works
well there, by design). When and if we acquire sufficient funding and people
to create a pure Windows Kermit then it will be uptodate and full, but we
don't have either at the moment.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 08:49:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15620
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:22:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02078
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:22:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "No Manual, No Support"
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 94 14:49:56 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 33
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Russell Nelson) writes:
> Hey Frank, how about only supporting people who have purchased the
> Kermit manual?
>
>  1) It generates the income you need to support Kermit.
>  2) It's reasonable.  Why should you help someone who hasn't bothered
>     to help themselves first?
>
> You can serialize new manuals, and ask current manual holders to send
> in the manual's copyright page (with an SASE) to be serialized.  Then,
> if you get a request for help without a valid serial number, refuse it.
--------
    That may be your way of dealing with people, but it's not mine
nor that of the other Kermit project members.
    What am I supposed to do if a person askes me a Kermit question,
as they do all day every day? Say "I don't exist, please visit a book store?"
Sure, right. How about asking a Kermit question of anyone at all remotely
associated with the project (and there are a great many such people)? Oh, I
forgot, they don't exist either. Maybe, just perhaps, the "project" includes
folks who just make suggestions or interesting critisisms in an arena such as
this, and we include parts in the programs. Hmmm.
    On the other hand, maybe our intention is to actually help people,
through the programs and giving moderate assistance about the programs to the
limits of our resources. We're obviously not out to become millionaires,
so there must be other reasons, such as the preceeding sentence, which cause
us to keep at this day after day, year after year. Hmmm, again.
    As others have said recently, the fun is over, all views have been
expressed multiple times, intelligent people have thought about them and
voiced opinions, good ideas have been filed away for further reflection and
consideration by all concerned (and we do have some good ones), the decisions
have been made (some years ago, interestingly). Please let the topic fade away.
    Thanks,
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 02:38:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22567
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:02:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12644
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:02:00 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!insosf1.infonet.net!mcrware.microware.com!jejones
From: [e-mail] (James Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 7 Oct 1994 02:38:35 GMT
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <372cbb$[e-mail]>
References: <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: snake.microware.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by
>people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"?

I hope not.  Were I Frank, I'd be sorely tempted to pull a John Galt.

The matter's been rehashed until the particles are about to tobacco mosaic
virus size :-); I agree with those who have urged dropping the matter.

(I *do* kind of wish there were a hardcover ring-bound edition of
*Using C Kermit*.  My softcover copy's cover tends to settle in a semi-
open state, and the open book doesn't lie flat.)

    James Jones

Opinions herein are those of their respective authors, and not necessarily
those of any organization.




From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 22:31:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26024
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 00:09:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17162
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 00:09:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mariusz Zydyk)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit Documentation
Date: 6 Oct 1994 22:31:17 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary CPSC
Lines: 2
Message-Id: <371trl$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fsb.cpsc.ucalgary.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

It seems that all my Kermit problems would be solved by a
manual. How do I get a copy of it?

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 19:46:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04247
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:19:16 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25034
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:19:13 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <36hv50$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:46:12 GMT
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Keith Petersen ([e-mail]) wrote:

>SimTel's policy is that programs submitted to the collection MUST
>include documentation.  If MS-Kermit were submitted today it would be
>rejected because it does not include documentation.

    Um, I wouldn't go that far, Keith, to say that MS-Kermit doesn't
    include documentation.  I'm no computer professional by any stretch
    of anyone's imagination, and was relatively new to computer
    communications, but I was able to set Kermit up on my system (I
    started with v.3.12), remap my keyboard for 3270 functions (to
    communicate with an IBM 370 through a 7171), optimize file
    transfers (including control char unprefixing when I got my Unix
    account), and figure out the script programming language well
    enough to write my own login scripts, all from the help files
    included with Columbia's MS-Kermit distribution.  I don't know
    whether or not the documentation that comes with the distribution
    is to be considered "complete," but I've ftp'd packages from SimTel
    and other ftp sites that weren't as well documented as MS-Kermit.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 20:17:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04906
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:40:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25522
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:40:30 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Need kermit script for redial and idol protection...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <36u3k7$[e-mail]> <36uj2q$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:09 GMT
Lines: 37
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36uj2q$[e-mail]>,
Jeffrey Altman ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <36u3k7$[e-mail]>,
>Ruei-wun  Tu <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>Hello,
>>     Does anyone have kermit script for Redial function?  I also try to
>>     write a script which can send a "SPACE" and "BACKSPACE" when the
>>     line is idol.  I am trying this because everytime I try to get a
>>     larger file from some FTP site to my remote account at home, my line
>>     will be cut off while I was waiting over 5 minutes without pressing
>>     any key on my keyboard.
>>
>>     Please E-mail me your responses.  Thank you in advance...
>>
>>     Rueiwun Tu

>C-Kermit 5a(190) comes with a REDIAL macro.

    MS-Kermit also comes with dialer scripts; I suspect this person is
    concerned about having the script on a PC to automate dial-up
    connections to his/her Unix account.

>As far as idle states, and disconnects during large ftp's.  I would suggest
>using the HASH mode for ftp's.  This will generate a # mark for every X
>bytes transfered.  This might prevent the disconnection, unless the daemon
>only monitors incoming characters.

    Probably it does.  Besides, activating a script in Kermit means
    leaving terminal emulation mode, which is probably not a good idea
    while you're in the middle of an ftp session.  You're better off to
    just hit the space bar.  Or better yet, get batchftp for your Unix
    account, which will run your ftp sessions in the background for
    you, while you're reading news or doing something else more
    interesting.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 03:12:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06829
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 04:23:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27238
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 04:23:32 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!jhuber
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Huber)
Subject: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:12:26 GMT
Organization: Texas Metronet Communications Services, Dallas TX
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I've read the comparison by Frank da Cruz that gives benchmarks of ckermit vs.
other file transfer protocols. That comparison shows that ckermit can do about
1600 cps over a 14.4kbps modem for compressed files, which is just as good as
Zmodem.

For some reason, I can't get more than 1250cps with compressed files using
kermit; however, running an external zmodem protocol from within kermit, I can
get 1600cps.  I'm using 5A(189) for OS/2 on one end and 5A(190) for the
HP-9000 on the otther. I've tried large packets, multiple windows, large
buffers. I've got rts/cts flow control set on the OS/2 end, but I'm not sure
what flow control is the best for the HP end. I've noticed that the packet
length rarely gets above 2000 during transfers, and that I rarely use more
than one window.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 09:54:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09426
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 05:54:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00531
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 05:54:34 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.chalmers.se!ce.chalmers.se!olovsson
From: [e-mail] (Tomas Olovsson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Date: 7 Oct 1994 09:54:27 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Univ. of Technology, Dept. of Comp. Eng., Gothenburg, Sweden
Lines: 44
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <3735sj$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <nicks.781450918@ariel>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: triffid.ce.chalmers.se
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <nicks.781450918@ariel>, [e-mail] (Nick Smith) writes:
|> [e-mail] (Bill Chinn) writes:
|>
|> >Hello,
|>
|> >I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
|> >Windows/NT?
|>
|> >If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here
|> >who would love to beta test it.
|>
|> >I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support
|> >for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit.
|>
|> >Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this
|> >info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get.
|> >--Bill
|>
|> Kermit is built into the Windows NT Terminal.  I've used it to
|> transfer files from my local university to my home PC with no
|> troubles.

I've tried this a couple of times too, but the throughput seems to be
about 25% of what you get when using MS-DOS kermit under NT!!

I have a ZyXEL modem, which connects at 19200 baud. It uses a
57600 baud serial line (with a 16550 uart) and the throughput
with Kermit is normally just above 2kByte/sec.

Actually, 25% might be to give too much credit to the terminal program.
Look at your modem lights and you will find that the modem is idle most
of the time (or am I the only person who experience this???) Also, the
Terminal program is almost useless even as a terminal emulator. I normally
connect to a Unix host and the scrolling "feature" in the terminal always
gets confused when ANSI escape sequences for cursor motion arrives...
But Kermit handles this fine.

  -- Tomas

_______________________________________________________________________________
___                    _                           Dept of Computer Engineering
 |  _  ,___   _   _   | | |   _      _  _  _  ,_   Chalmers Univ of Technology
 | |_| | | | |_\ _>   |_| |_ |_| \/ _> _> |_| | |  S-412 96 Gothenburg, SWEDEN
[e-mail]_____

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 10:17:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11392
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 06:54:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02557
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 06:54:07 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!dcs.gla.ac.uk!brunel!xxxxajh
From: [e-mail] (Alan J Holmes)
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK
References: <36lpdt$[e-mail]> <36ml93$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:17:47 GMT
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russell Nelson) writes:
>In article <36ml93$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>   If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to
>   spend one red cent.  If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you
>   advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us
>   money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw.  That would
>   include the universities, government agencies, research institute,
>   hospitals, convents, and orphanages.

>   Why don't we give it rest, eh?  Thanks.

>Because the Kermit copyright is limiting (intentionally or not) the
>distribution of Kermit.  If you want universities, government
>agencies, research institutes, hospitals, convents, and orphanages to
>be able to use Kermit, you have to make sure that they can get it.

Perhaps I have missed something, I was under the
impression that distribution was already free to this
list and indeed anyone who has access to the email
system.

Regards

Alan Holmes


From [e-mail] Thu Oct  6 22:23:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12358
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 07:20:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03697
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 07:20:40 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 6 Oct 1994 22:23:09 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 38
Message-Id: <371tcd$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:

:>I think he was saying that the Kermit's team intentionally took
:>the electronic/on-line documentation forcing the people to buy the book.
:>Both parties have valid aruments.
:>
:>[Does book sales have *that* large revenue ? Would the book sale
:>be able to pay the salary of one full-time worker ?
:>Wow, for sure I am going to write a book]

:Budi,

:Why are you treating Frank like a bad guy?  He is one man, with a
:small team of developers - NOT some big company.  To top it off, Budi,
:you are being sarcastic to him -in front of his face-.  There is nothing
:ruder that I can think of.

Am I treating him like a bad guy ? Not at all. He has my respect.
I am being frank (no pun intended :-) and don't want to beat around the bush.
We can have different opinions but still respect each other.

...
:Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by
:people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"?

You are not the only one.
I also see kermit as a beautiful thing. On top of that, their
MS-Kermit has ***THE BEST*** vt100 emulation I have ever tried.
Nobody (including commercial programs that I have bought) beats them.

there ... so you know my position.


-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 12:22:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14455
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:23:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06167
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:22:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)?
Date: 7 Oct 1994 12:22:56 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <373ej0$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joseph Huber)
writes:
> For some reason, I can't get more than 1250cps with compressed files
> using kermit; however, running an external zmodem protocol from within
> kermit, I can get 1600cps.  I'm using 5A(189) for OS/2 on one end and
> 5A(190) for the HP-9000 on the otther. I've tried large packets,
> multiple windows, large buffers. I've got rts/cts flow control set on
> the OS/2 end, but I'm not sure what flow control is the best for the HP
> end. I've noticed that the packet length rarely gets above 2000 during
> transfers, and that I rarely use more than one window.
>
As long as flow control is effective everywhere -- and it probably is
because Zmodem gets 1600cps on the same connection, you can squeeze the
additional 20-26% performance out of the connection by telling Kermit not
to prefix most control characters, since by default (for safety) it
prefixes all of them.  You can read about this in the ckcker.upd file that
comes with C-Kermit 5A(189) or 5A(190).  You can also increase your
packet size up to 9024, but, oddly enough, there is not always a direct
linear relationship between packet length and performance.  Each
connection has its own unique combination of packet length and window size.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 12:26:19 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14565
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:26:23 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06377
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:26:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Documentation
Date: 7 Oct 1994 12:26:19 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 160
Message-Id: <373epb$[e-mail]>
References: <371trl$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <371trl$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Mariusz Zydyk) writes:
> It seems that all my Kermit problems would be solved by a
> manual. How do I get a copy of it?
>
The manuals are all that most people ever need.  When you have problems
that are not covered in the documentation, there are the supplemental
online files covering the minutiae of particular problems.  When that
doesn't help, that's what we are here for.  The most efficient use of
everybody's time is ensured by this approach.  First look in the manual.
If you don't find it there, look in the online help, hints-and-tips,
and update files.  If you still need help, contact us.  Here is our
current list of publications:

                           KERMIT BOOK LIST

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

MS-DOS Kermit, full-featured communications software for IBM and
compatible PCs with DOS or Windows, is documented in:

    Christine M. Gianone, Using MS-DOS Kermit, Second Edition, Digital
    Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN
    1-55558-082-3.  Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the
    IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette.  In computer
    and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from
    Digital Press.

A German-language edition is also available:

    Christine M. Gianone, MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle
    Kommunikationsprogramm, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany
    (1991), 414 pages.  Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for
    the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette,
    including German- language help files.  Deutsch von Gisbert W.
    Selke.  ISBN 3-88229-006-4.

And a French-language edition:

    Christine M. Gianone, Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi, Deuxieme
    edition, Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages.
    Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2,
    and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette.  Adaption francaise: Jean
    Dutertre.  ISBN 2-901143-20-2.

There is also a Japanese book about MS-DOS Kermit, concentrating on the
NEC PC9801:

    Hirofumi Fujii and Fukuko Yuasa, MS-Kermit Nyumon, Computer Today
    Library 6, Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd., publishers (1993), 160 pages.
    ISBN 4-7819-0669-9 C3355 P1854E.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

C-Kermit 5A, full-function communication software for UNIX, VMS, OS/2,
AOS/VS, OS-9, Apollo Aegis, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST is
documented in:

    Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone, "Using C-Kermit", Digital
    Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1993, 514 pages, ISBN
    1-55558-108-0.  In computer and book stores, or order direct from
    Columbia University or from Digital Press.

A German-language edition is also available:

    Frank da Cruz und Christine M. Gianone, C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und
    Referenz, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1994).  ISBN
    3-88229-023-4.  Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Kermit File transfer protocol is specified in the following book,
which also includes tutorials on computers, file systems, data
communications, and using Kermit:

    Frank da Cruz, Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol, Digital Press /
    Butterworth-Heinemann, Worburn, MA, 1987, 379 pages, ISBN
    0-932376-88-6.  In computer and book stores, or order direct from
    Columbia University or from Digital Press.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Kermit software for more than 400 different computers and operating
systems is available from Columbia University.  Contact Columbia for a
free Kermit software catalog.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

                                 HOW TO ORDER

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

ENGLISH-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS:

   1. In computer and book stores, or order direct from the publisher,
      Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann with MasterCard, Visa, or
      American Express:

          [phone]     (Woburn, MA office for USA & Canada)
          [phone]       (Rushden, England office for Europe)
          [phone]     (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & NZ)
          [phone]        (Singapore office for Asia)

   2. From Columbia University:

          Kermit Development and Distribution
          Columbia University Academic Information Systems
          612 West 115th Street
          New York, NY  10025  USA
          Tel.  [phone]
          Fax.  [phone]
          E-Mail: [e-mail]

      Domestic and overseas orders accepted.  Add $5 US for shipping
      outside of North America.  Orders may be paid by MasterCard or
      Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars.  Add $35 bank fee for
      checks not drawn on a US bank.  Price includes shipping.  Do not
      include sales tax.  Quantity discounts are available.
      Single-copy US prices (in US dollars):

          Using MS-DOS Kermit  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95
          Using C-Kermit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95
          Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol . . . . . . . . . . .$ 29.95
          All three  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 79.95

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

GERMAN-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS:

        MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm: DM 69,00
        C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und Referenz: . . . . . . . . . . DM 90,00

        Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG
        Helstorfer Strasse 7
        D-30625 Hannover, GERMANY
        Tel.  [phone]
        Fax.  [phone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

FRENCH:  Kermit MS-DOS Mode d'Emploi:  . . . . . . . . . . .  FF 495,00

        Heinz Schiefer & Cie.
        45 rue Henri de Regnier
        F-78000 Versailles, FRANCE
        Tel.  [phone]
        Fax.  [phone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

JAPANESE:  MS-Kermit Nyumon: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1,800 Y

        Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd.
        Abe-toku Building
        2-4 Kanda-suda cho, Chiyoda-ku
        Tokyo 101, JAPAN
        Tel.  [phone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 12:31:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20549
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:10:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13332
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:10:27 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <36hv50$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:31:17 GMT
Expires: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT
Lines: 20
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>Look again.  MS-Kermit is written and maintained by Joe Doupnik, not Frank.

Well, *that* is certainly a pertinent piece of information in this discussion.
When all else fails, I suppose the best thing to do is just obfuscate.

>You seem to think that this is some sort of effort to get Columbia to
>agree to allow MS-Kermit to be put back on SimTel.  That is NOT the
>case.  SimTel's policy is that programs submitted to the collection MUST
>include documentation.  If MS-Kermit were submitted today it would be
>rejected because it does not include documentation.

Perhaps I have not been reading the postings in this "discussion" closely
enough.  But I certainly don't recall this having been mentioned before;
in fact, what I recall was that you announced that kermit had been removed
from SimTel without explaining why, simply saying "contact fdc for an
explanation".  The very strong implication in that posting, and all of the
ensuing "discussion", was that it was the dastardly policies of Columbia
that had caused it to be removed.  When all else fails, obfuscate.

jw

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 14:12:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22363
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:39:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15403
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:39:29 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!newshost!sasdrq
From: [e-mail] (David Quattlebaum)
Subject: reading the screen in kermit
Sender: [e-mail] (Noter of Newsworthy Events)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:12:59 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: gamecock.unx.sas.com
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain
row,col location? I use this ability in procomm plus, but can't find a
way to duplicate this feature in MSK 3.13.

When writing certain scripts, it is nice to check the top of the
screen for a screen id. This id might match something else on the
screen so the "INPUT" command might not work.

Am I missing something already in 3.14?

Thanks.

--

R. David Quattlebaum           SAS Institute Inc.
[e-mail]             SAS Campus Drive, R4138
[phone] x6284            Cary, NC 27513-2414



From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 14:28:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22517
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:41:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15563
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:41:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!bigblue.oit.unc.edu!tipper.oit.unc.edu!ewt
From: [e-mail] (Erik Troan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 7 Oct 1994 14:28:55 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <373lv7$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36rnho$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: tipper.oit.unc.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Henk de Groot <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Is it possible to set up a special directory tree for those programs that
>are of great value (like Kermit) but are not allowed to go on a CD-ROM.
>This directory is not meant for every other program, authors must still
>be pushed to allow their programs on CD-ROM, but it would solve difficult
>situations like this one (an author that will not give-in and a product that
>is too valuable to looze). During the generation of the CD-ROM this
>directory can be skipped so that the programs will not appear on CD-ROM.

Do you realize how many anonymous ftp sites there are on internet?
Do you understand how many of those carry kermit?
Do you know how easy it is to find kermit on internet (try archie)?

Why are people complainging so much that it was removed from two ftp sites.
Plenty of major ftp sites still carry it and it's not hard to get. Columbia
has *no* plands on removing it from ftp, they just feel that they have the
right to control further distribution so they don't drown in the flood
of support requests that would ovvur from a large increase in users.

Get kermit, use kermit, and stop worrying that you won't be able to find it.
The net doesn't revolve around simtel and garbo.

Erik
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Like a fool I let dreams become great expectations" - Chess

        Erik Troan = [e-mail] = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 14:52:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25224
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 11:19:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00483
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 11:18:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Sigurd Andersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
Date: 7 Oct 1994 10:52:41 -0400
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <373nbp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
David Quattlebaum <[e-mail]> wrote:

: Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain
: row,col location?  ...
:
: Thanks.
:
: R. David Quattlebaum           SAS Institute Inc.  ...
:

I have a quasi-related item on my "wish list" -- an option to
display the current line and character position of the cursor
in the status area on the bottom line of the screen.  As that
line is now rather crowded, perhaps one would need to be able
to choose what items to display, and where?  Of course, this
should be done without making Kermit any larger or slower ;*)

--
Sigurd Andersen    Internet: [e-mail]   User Services
     __o            or  [e-mail]   023 Smith Hall
   _ \<,_                                              Univ. of Delaware
  (_)/ (_)         Ph: [phone]  Fax: [phone]   Newark, DE. 19716

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 13:40:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28068
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:02:29 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03780
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:02:28 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!metro.atlanta.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit
References: <36jr4b$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:40:51 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>In article <36jr4b$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Center / NT) writes:
>> One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with
>> NDIS compliant ethernet adapters.
>>
>> Where can I find this?
>>
>> Joel    [e-mail]
>------------
>    We will be distributing a copy with MSK v3.14. Home base for the
>file is my place, netlab2.usu.edu, cd drivers.
>    Joe D.


While I wouldn't advise flooding Joe's FTP site, there is a lot of
interesting things there (including MS-Kermit 3.13 sources, as someone
was asking about earlier).  A lot of is is available at
kermit.columbia.edu, but Joe's FTP site is a little more streamlined for
what he needs (after all - wouldn't the guy that writes MS-Kermit only
really need MS-Kermit?  :-) )

Ken


From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 14:04:08 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28559
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:06:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04017
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:06:20 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <372cbb$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:04:08 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 36
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

> = James Jones

>(I *do* kind of wish there were a hardcover ring-bound edition of
>*Using C Kermit*.  My softcover copy's cover tends to settle in a semi-
>open state, and the open book doesn't lie flat.)

Now *that's* a good idea!  I haven't send my money order in for MS-Kermit
manual yet, but I will within the next few days.

I *love* the hard cover ringbound manuals - they're hard to find.


         --------------------------------------------
    **** Hey Frank, Joe and others on the Kermit team ****
         ____________________________________________

Whaddaya think about offering a ringbound version of the Kermit manuals
(MS-Kermit and C-Kermit - don't know much about the manuals for CPM and
such) for $10 more each?

Maybe for the *next* MS-Kermit and C-Kermit book, perhaps, if not this one.


I'd be willing to pay $60 for the ringbound edition, if the paperbound
edition that I'm ordering is as good as I expect and have heard!  :-)

Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and
print a nice binder?  *Then* you could offer updates to the manual, when
new revisions come out, and before the next Kermit book was written!

I fully expect Kermit to be around for a long long time to come.  It's so
darned simple (as a protocol), and yet does so much!


Ken


From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 04:40:45 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21929
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:39:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11824
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:39:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 94 10:40:45 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 20
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Quattlebaum) writes:
> Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain
> row,col location? I use this ability in procomm plus, but can't find a
> way to duplicate this feature in MSK 3.13.
>
> When writing certain scripts, it is nice to check the top of the
> screen for a screen id. This id might match something else on the
> screen so the "INPUT" command might not work.
>
> Am I missing something already in 3.14?
---------
    Connect mode is a mode, unrelated to things we can say at the
Kermit prompt. Script commands run at the Kermit prompt and not in
Connect mode. They are indeed modes, much different beasts in the code.
    Many comms programs sit in terminal emulation mode all the
time, and overlay file transfer screens. MS-DOS Kermit is not designed
that way.
    Thus, your scripts can check for a character string, but not for
a formatted screen characteristic.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 04:59:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21976
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:40:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11867
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:40:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 94 10:59:34 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <373nbp$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 36
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <373nbp$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Sigurd Andersen) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> David Quattlebaum <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> : Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain
> : row,col location?  ...
> :
> : Thanks.
> :
> : R. David Quattlebaum           SAS Institute Inc.  ...
> :
>
> I have a quasi-related item on my "wish list" -- an option to
> display the current line and character position of the cursor
> in the status area on the bottom line of the screen.  As that
> line is now rather crowded, perhaps one would need to be able
> to choose what items to display, and where?  Of course, this
> should be done without making Kermit any larger or slower ;*)
>
> --
> Sigurd Andersen    Internet: [e-mail]   User Services
>      __o            or  [e-mail]   023 Smith Hall
>    _ \<,_                                              Univ. of Delaware
>   (_)/ (_)         Ph: [phone]  Fax: [phone]   Newark, DE. 19716
-----------
    Displaying the cursor position on the status line would be a
performance killer. It's a decorative item, a la say WordPerfect. The
Connect mode status line is not designed to be a set of movable objects
so there is no user-editing of which components or where they go. Also
the host has control of that line if it wishes. Any of these items would
indeed cause program size increase and manual size increase, and generate
even more comments about "too many things which can be set/shown/tinkered
with."
    But thanks for the suggestions. Maybe a Windows version would have
such features.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 05:29:08 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26518
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:41:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17257
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:41:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 94 11:29:08 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    Speaking for myself here. Reviewing the past ten days of intense
discussion on this list has left a very positive impression on me. To
outsiders the discussion seems like a full powered attack on Kermits
and the Kermit Project policies. I see it differently. Over 90% of the
messages are from very thoughtful people trying to sort out choices and
alternatives, with the aim of improving matters. Not all messages are this
way but the vast majority are. The insight and tenor of most messages is
professional and experienced. I am impressed and, after time to recover good
humor, pleased. I've learned things even if I don't agree with all points.
    Most of us realize that while Kermit programs and policies are the
focus of discussion the real targets are the far more numerous programs and
authors and distribution companies. The element of dramatically increasing
scales of use and distribution make the problem very difficult to quantify
and solve. Providing help to that vast user population, under circumstances
of very tight financial and personnel resources, is the most difficult part,
whether programs be commercial or free. The problem of copyright adherence is
emphasized. These issues will be faced by many people and companies, and our
discussion should be of distinct benefit when their turn comes.
    Thus let me take this small breathing space to express my appreciation
to the many contributors for their time and effort to help all of us understand
the situation, and maybe even find longer term solutions.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 16:27:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27853
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:01:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18737
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:01:05 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Kermit-lovers unite!
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:27:34 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Sometimes I wish I had a mailing list program on my sysadmin's host.

I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely
ADORE Kermit!  That's the biggest problem with newsgroups.  Complainers
pop in, pop out, without a hint of responsibility for what they say.

KERMIT-LVRS :->  Quite tempting, in fact!  Too much negativity around
sometimes - it's great to get away from it when I can :-)

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 19:29:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01078
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:33:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21473
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:33:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:29:50 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <3747je$[e-mail]>
References: <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
:the resources even further.  My impression of the people who are involved
:in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable;
:the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive
:and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other"
:is completely bogus, in my opinion.  My impression of the rest of those

Rubbish.  But since you imagine to know so well please advice how
does one set up a publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will
not be automatically mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the
complicated arrangements with the CDROM producers.  Please also
advice where do I find the additional time an motivation needed.

Develop a product of your own, and you'll see the Columbia's side of
things.

Maintain an FTP site and you'll see SimTel's and Garbo's side of
things.

I happen to have done both.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 06:50:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01789
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:42:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22279
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:42:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 94 12:50:13 MDT
References: <36jr4b$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>>In article <36jr4b$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Center / NT) writes:
>>> One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with
>>> NDIS compliant ethernet adapters.
>>>
>>> Where can I find this?
>>>
>>> Joel    [e-mail]
>>------------
>>    We will be distributing a copy with MSK v3.14. Home base for the
>>file is my place, netlab2.usu.edu, cd drivers.
>>    Joe D.
>
>
> While I wouldn't advise flooding Joe's FTP site, there is a lot of
> interesting things there (including MS-Kermit 3.13 sources, as someone
> was asking about earlier).  A lot of is is available at
> kermit.columbia.edu, but Joe's FTP site is a little more streamlined for
> what he needs (after all - wouldn't the guy that writes MS-Kermit only
> really need MS-Kermit?  :-) )
-------------
    My ftp servers are designed and built to take the load. They also
service a goodly chunk of the NetWare community and I doubt that you guys
will make much of a dent in the traffic stats. Feel free to raid and plunder.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 19:32:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03052
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23591
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <3747je$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <3747je$[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:32:20 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Message-Id: <3747o4$[e-mail]>
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3747je$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<3747je$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 19:41:30 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03683
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:03:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23989
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:03:41 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:41:30 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 30
Message-Id: <37489a$[e-mail]>
References: <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
:the resources even further.  My impression of the people who are involved
:in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable;
:the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive
:and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other"
:is completely bogus, in my opinion.  My impression of the rest of those

Since you seem to know so well please advice how does one set up a
publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically
mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements
with the CDROM producers.  Please also advice where do I find the
additional time an motivation needed for something which I do much
of my spare time.

Develop a product and its support of your own, and you'll see the
Columbia's side of things.

Maintain a well-organized and responsible FTP site and you'll see
SimTel's and Garbo's side of things.

I happen to have done both so don't you "completely bogus" me
mister.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 16:34:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04305
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:11:58 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24689
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:11:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!hawk.csd.harris.com!amber!tom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Horsley)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Date: 07 Oct 1994 16:34:36 GMT
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <nicks.781450918@ariel>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 6 Oct 1994 23:43:06 +1000
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
>Windows/NT?

I am vaugely sort of fooling around with porting the OS/2 kermit to native
Windows NT, but it is by no means an official "kermit porter" project, nor
do I anticipate being finished anytime soon (though if I do happen to get it
working, I will certainly look into feeding the source back to the folks
at columbia, but we are probably talking months or years here if at all :-).
--
--
[e-mail]
Home: 511 Kingbird Circle Delray Beach FL  33444
Work: Harris Computers, 2101 W. Cypress Creek Rd. Ft. Lauderdale FL  33309
Take the pledge! No votes for Ollie North supporters! NO POND SCUM!

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 17:46:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11422
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:43:16 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02176
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:43:14 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utzoo!telly!evan
From: [e-mail] (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Sound Software Ltd., Brampton, Ontario
References: <[e-mail]> <36uibk$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:46:00 GMT
Lines: 78
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36uibk$[e-mail]>,
    Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I think everybody would like to see Kermit on CDROMs.  The
>question is -- and nobody has yet answered it -- how do we do that without
>killing the Kermit effort?  I'm not asking any of you to answer this
>question: I don't think you can, unless you step forward with an endowment
>that lets us carry on our work indefinitely in such a way that no funds
>need to be raised, and everybody's needs are met.  As long as we must pay
>or our own work, then it is up to us to decide how to do it.

Maybe, then, I'm misreading what "the Kermit effort" entails.

As a purely developmental effort, the nature of Kermit's distribution
should be of no concern. What has surprised me in this thread is
the revelation that Columbia actually offers help-desk-style support for
Kermit. This, frankly, amazes me.

I don't understand why "support" need be any more than a part-time task
perusing the Internet and/or a BBS-type system (whose number is built
into the default Kermit dialing directory :-). That person would
accept bug fixes and reply to other questions with a polite RTFM.

This might have the added effect of giving people more reason to buy
the book(s).

I would suggest that anything more than minimal Kermit support by
Columbia is a waste of funds. The software is mature enough that
user-driven support (such as this newsgroup!) will suffice for most
questions, just as it does for current users of GNU and Linux software.
Your effort, Frank, in creating an unmoderated Kermit group, should
significantly reduce the load on Columbia directly. Postings to the
formerly-moderated group that once had to be dealt with by your team
can now be dealt with by that big blob of Usenet.

People want support beyond that? Buy the books.

People want handholding beyond that? Allow third party efforts to
support Kermit to those who are willing to pay. Maybe less revenue
for Columbia, but far fewer headaches as well.

I'm not directly affected by the CD prohibition, but I see why a
seemingly insignificant issue like discrimination based on distribution
media would get under people's skin. It seems so arbitrary.

I like the idea of a Columbia-produced CD as was suggested elsewhere.
Its capacity would allow you to put just about every known architecture
implementation of Kermit on a single CD-ROM, which might solve a number
of problems. But let's take the idea further...

How about this? Consolidate all the current English-language
documentation into a single volume, and bundle in this book a
CD-ROM with all current Kermit implementations (as well as electronic
versions of the docs). Offer it for distribution through *software*
channels, not book channels (ie, Merisel rather than Waldenbooks).

Priced reasonably, it would sell alongside all of the other CD-ROM
releases in computer stores; and it would sell well, even with users
knowing they could get the stuff free from elsewhere.

Look at the boom in sales of CD-ROMs which only contain shareware
and freeware; people know they can get the stuff free, but are willing
to pay for convenience, virus-free media, and documentation.

From a publishing level, I'm sure the folks at O'Reilly and Prime Time
Software would be able to help you with such a CD/book project if
Digital Press won't. Note that because it's a book, the current
publication isn't on display in software areas; software and books
are currently sold in very different ways. Sold as a software CD-ROM,
as software rather than a book, I suggest sales would go up dramatically.

I've been lurking on this discussion for a while, waiting for someone
else to suggest this. To me it seems  almost obvious. What am I missing?

--
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
       Novell Unix Master Reseller / [e-mail] / [phone]
          PCMCIA:  People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 19:08:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12870
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:05:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03774
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:05:31 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
References: <[e-mail]> <nicks.781450918@ariel> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:08:12 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
>>Windows/NT?
>
>I am vaugely sort of fooling around with porting the OS/2 kermit to native
>Windows NT, but it is by no means an official "kermit porter" project, nor
>do I anticipate being finished anytime soon (though if I do happen to get it
>working, I will certainly look into feeding the source back to the folks
>at columbia, but we are probably talking months or years here if at all :-).
>--

Tom, maybe this is something that I'm confused about but... I thought
that you would take the original C-Kermit code and simply compile it
under Windows-NT.  Well, make changes for the file system and for the
port assignments... but shouldn't it mostly take care of itself?

Or am I thinking too wishfully about the "portableness" of C code?  :->

(I really no little about C beyond "Hello, world!")

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 21:19:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14718
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:36:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05762
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:36:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!chinook!ken
From: [e-mail] (Ken Pizzini)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 7 Oct 1994 21:19:38 GMT
Organization: What, me?
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <374e1a$[e-mail]>
References: <36ou5m$[e-mail]> <36phpb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, Jamie Watson <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>The GNU project doesn't
>>CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely
>
>Oh, really?  Are you sure about this?  I've seen several statements, from
>several different people in the FSF, saying "If you are going to buy the
>distribution on tape {or whatever}, please buy it from us and not from
>others, because the money from this is important funding for us".  Sounds
>like a very similar situation to me.

But this is different -- it is a plea to the purchasers to help support
ongoing development.  It is not a demand.  If one finds a distribution
with desirable value-added and one still wants to support the Gnu project
then one can just send a monetary donation to the FSF.

But in a sense you're right: the do _care_, but they don't control (and
explicitly avoid controlling) distribution.

        --Ken Pizzini

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 20:31:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17641
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:34:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09145
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:34:47 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
References: <[e-mail]> <373nbp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:31:23 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 34
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>    Displaying the cursor position on the status line would be a
>performance killer. It's a decorative item, a la say WordPerfect. The
>Connect mode status line is not designed to be a set of movable objects
>so there is no user-editing of which components or where they go. Also
>the host has control of that line if it wishes. Any of these items would
>indeed cause program size increase and manual size increase, and generate
>even more comments about "too many things which can be set/shown/tinkered
>with."
>    But thanks for the suggestions. Maybe a Windows version would have
>such features.
>    Joe D.

There is another option.  While displaying the cursor position isn't
practical, I know some people have asked about cut-and-paste functions.

Personally, I just scrollback to the part I want to remember, and while
I'm sitting at the screen, type the command/filename/whatever while on
that screen, using the first time it said it as a visual reminder.

But there are programs that cut/paste sections of a screen.  One I
believe came with Qmodem 4.0 a few years ago.  It was very small, but it
did work.  There is also (in my archives but I'm not likely to be able to
find it for a while!) a program running around that allows you to use the
mouse to cut/paste text info. from an MS-DOS screen.

While positioning the cursor over the text, press the left button to
highlight.  To stop highlighting, let go of the button.  Then you click
on the right mouse button to paste it.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.  There are some folks that would
probably find that a useful item in Kermit :-)

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 11:05:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19549
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:13:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11413
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:12:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 94 17:05:32 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <nicks.781450918@ariel> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Horsley) writes:
>>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
>>Windows/NT?
>
> I am vaugely sort of fooling around with porting the OS/2 kermit to native
> Windows NT, but it is by no means an official "kermit porter" project, nor
> do I anticipate being finished anytime soon (though if I do happen to get it
> working, I will certainly look into feeding the source back to the folks
> at columbia, but we are probably talking months or years here if at all :-).
> --
Tom,
    People such as yourself should contact Frank da Cruz at Columbia,
[e-mail], about your plans so there is minimal expenditure
of effort and that matters can stay coordinated.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 00:54:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22214
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:01:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14418
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:01:50 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!drunivac.drew.edu!pcoen
From: [e-mail] (Paul R. Coen)
Subject: Re: Kermit-lovers unite!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Math Department)
Nntp-Posting-Host: drunivac.drew.edu
Organization: Drew University Academic Computing
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 00:54:43 GMT
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>
> Sometimes I wish I had a mailing list program on my sysadmin's host.
>
> I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely
> ADORE Kermit!  That's the biggest problem with newsgroups.  Complainers
> pop in, pop out, without a hint of responsibility for what they say.
>
> KERMIT-LVRS :->  Quite tempting, in fact!  Too much negativity around
> sometimes - it's great to get away from it when I can :-)
>

Yeah, and you'd have to put up with lots of people joining, thinking it's
a Muppets fan list.

Terrif :)

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 12:34:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22656
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:13:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15257
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:13:07 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Oct 94 18:34:27 MDT
References: <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <37489a$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 49
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37489a$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
> :the resources even further.  My impression of the people who are involved
> :in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable;
> :the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive
> :and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other"
> :is completely bogus, in my opinion.  My impression of the rest of those
>
> Since you seem to know so well please advice how does one set up a
> publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically
> mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements
> with the CDROM producers.  Please also advice where do I find the
> additional time an motivation needed for something which I do much
> of my spare time.
    I think part of this came out wrong. It's not mirroring per se
which we are discussing, but rather what's sold to the CDROM vendors
for pressing. I understand mirroring issues since I run a fair sized
one myself (official Novell mirror) and I too have to pick and choose
which subdirectories are to be exposed and which not.
    From my own experience in the ftp business I have classes of
directories where items are treated differently (got to, my legal
agreement requires it). It's not that big of a deal. I also vet each
third party file arriving at my place, virus scan it, read the docs,
verify that the file can be reposted, and so on. I reject not a few,
but not based on extent if any or eloquence of English prose. Timo has
much more than I do, but I still have a bunch to deal with. Btw, both
Timo and I earn our living holding real jobs as Prof types, not by
running archive sites.
    I think we have been suggesting that some programs live in
a directory area which is not melted into plastic. That can be done
by either adding a new branch on your ftp server tree (and I understand
what that means) and/or clipping out selected subdirectories during
the disk to tape making process for the CDROM vendor. How easy that
is depends on the operating system, etc, but I can't seeing it being
a major undertaking. Locating the files which need to be moved is
another matter, but that's part of the business.
     This rather repeats the obvious so I won't elaborate further.
And please don't read this as directions on how to run an ftp site;
it's just my own experience being related.

> Develop a product and its support of your own, and you'll see the
> Columbia's side of things.
    Yes.
> Maintain a well-organized and responsible FTP site and you'll see
> SimTel's and Garbo's side of things.
    Ditto. It's not easy being a major ftp site. But to be one
there are these admin details with which we are stuck.

    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 22:27:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25408
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:10:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18887
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:10:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!deathstar.cris.com!news1.oakland.edu!vtc.tacom.army.mil!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz
From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:27:32 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 55
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
>Perhaps I have not been reading the postings in this "discussion" closely
>enough.  But I certainly don't recall this having been mentioned before;
>in fact, what I recall was that you announced that kermit had been removed
>from SimTel without explaining why, simply saying "contact fdc for an
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>explanation".  The very strong implication in that posting, and all of the
>ensuing "discussion", was that it was the dastardly policies of Columbia
>that had caused it to be removed.  When all else fails, obfuscate.

You haven't been reading the postings in this discussion closely enough.
You are wrong when you say I did not explain why.  I DID, and yes it WAS
because of the restrictive distribution policy of Columbia that MS-Kermit
was removed.

Here is the original announcement:

> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 01:02:46 EDT
> From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
> Subject: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
>
> According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
> University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.
>
> SimTel's policy is:
>
>   Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs
>   offered by several vendors.  If the program submitted should not
>   be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution,
>   it will not be accepted.
>
> Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit:
>
>   Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City
>   of New York.  The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared
>   without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained,
>   except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software
>   product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with
>   commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to
>   their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of
>   Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University.
>
> Because of this restrictive distribution policy all MS-Kermit programs
> and other associated files bearing the Columbia University copyright
> have been removed from SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm).
>
> Questions and comments should be sent to Columbia, *not* to SimTel.
> The e-mail address is:  [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 08:07:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04367
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 01:30:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00228
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 01:30:51 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: File sizes and Kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <36uqd8$[e-mail]> <36v463$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:07:10 GMT
Lines: 34
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36v463$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <36uqd8$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Mariusz Zydyk) writes:
>> ------- I just started using Kermit [5A(189)] and I noticed that
>> when transferring files the file size on my PC at home is very
>> different from the original. It is always larger [72K file comes
>> out as 78K], but I haven't been able to see any differences between
>> the two. It is not a big deal at the moment, but shortly [today] I
>> will need to transfer some ZIP files and I'd like the size to
>> be preserved for obvious reasons. Why does Kermit do this and is
>> there a way around it?
>>
>Tell the Kermit program that is sending the file to "set file type
>binary".  The differences between text and binary mode transfer are
>explained in the documentation, and have also been discussed on this
>newsgroup.

    True enough, but in brief:  In text files, Unix uses line feed (LF)
    characters to end lines, DOS uses carriage return (CR) and LF. When
    in text mode (set file type text), Kermit translates from Unix (LF)
    to DOS (CR/LF), which means that for each new line, your DOS file
    will be one character larger than your Unix file.

    If you use text mode to transfer binary files from Unix to your PC,
    a CR will be added before every LF in the file, and you'll have a
    corrupted file on your PC.  Set file type binary stops Kermit from
    making these changes; the received file on your PC will be the same
    size as the one on your Unix account.  You can quickly check the
    integrity of your downloaded zipfile by escaping back to the
    MS-Kermit> prompt and doing 'run pkunzip -t zipfile'.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  8 06:04:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05362
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 02:03:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01348
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 02:03:07 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Funding Kermit
Date: 7 Oct 1994 23:04:55 -0700
Lines: 83
Message-Id: <375cq7$[e-mail]>
References: <3714tt$[e-mail]> <371dfr$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:

>There are some very messy issues here. Is calling kermit "free" a
>misrepresentation?  Is a distribution service acting as an agent for
>the recipient ... Why does it make a difference if this agent makes
>a profit or not? ... I've often wondered why no one
>has bundled an off-line email package along with scripted kermit
>communications as an obvious low-budget talk-to-any-host solution.
>Now I see that it couldn't be distributed through any media usable
>by the people who need such a thing...

Les has an important point here. It is part of ''the legal issue''.
Because Kermit is not completely free, most modems are packaged, not
with Kermit, but with an invariably crude program instead. Such programs
are obviously made on the cheap, because they are just an add-on to the
modem. Most are using zmodem, perhaps that's easier to program from
scratch, or the source is public domain, or it is easier to license (I don't
know). I strongly believe that this is a factor to the BBS systems
preferring zmodem over Kermit protocol.

If Kermit were truly free, it would be bundled with many more modems than
today. It would save the modem vendors the cost of developing their own
version. Kermit would be more popular with the mainstream BBS users.
BBS's would install better Kermit versions, using the original source
code, yielding in fewer bugs.

I did hear Frank say something like Kermit is not for the masses. I don't
agree (meaning I still respect the opinion of others). I think it is a
waste of resources to reinvent the wheel, like modem vendors have to do
today. Kermit with some appropriate scripts (like the current dial scripts!)
is very easy to use. If most BBS communications are easy enough that they
can be handled with telix/procomm etc, i.e., 8 bits, short delays,
hardware handshaking, etc, then one script would fit all those situations.

Only if Kermit is truly free, without tricky restrictions based on such
criteria as ''for profit'' (in my opinion a very ambiguous criterion),
it can have it's maximum effect. That is easing communication between
as many computers as possible, and eliminating reinvention of Kermit.

The economic aspects must be resolved, of course.
1) Nobody will be able to make exorbitant profits of Kermit, because it
is free. Competitors will prevent this through the market mechanism.
2) If Columbia gets swamped by support questions and has no resources to
handle those, Columbia should stop answering some users. Columbia has no
obligation to provide support. It should only support those it has an
interest in, and so many as it can affort (at the most).
3) If Columbia has to refuse helping some users, it could refer them to
this list or to other volunteers. I happen to have no plans to contribute
any code to the Kermit project, but may be able to provide some user
support as an alternative contribution. Others may choose to donate some
money. This way, more people than just those genius hackers can
contribute to this wonderful Kermit project (no exageration, I mean it).
4) If, as Frank fears, indeed huge numbers of users will beleage the Kermit
team with questions, I foresee businesses opening up to address that market.
Contrary to Franks opinion, I find this desirable. It will stimulate the
economy. Provide employment. The public gets the benefit of using a
REAL protocol/terminal emulator, instead of those makeshift products
currently bundled with most modems.
5) Properly organized, voluntary donations (without legal-sounding
requirements as with shareware) can generate considerable funds. That's
how public radio/television does it. GNU. LPF. The Red Cross. The TeX
user group. (Is there a Kermit user group???)

With this posting I hoped to add a few new ideas (and to reiterate not
too many old ones). In no way I mean to say that Columbia SHOULD do
anything, only that it COULD consider this. Other people will have even
better ideas to solve the REAL problem, which is not distributing
Kermit on CDs to the masses, but to decide WHICH activities to fund in
WHAT way.

My own hope is that sometime C-Kermit will evolve to an even more
modular package allowing a greater amount of code reuse. I have ideas
for a program that combines fax, voice mail, terminal emulation,
callerid logging, in short: all thinkable phone functions. Wouldn't it
be nice if I could reuse large parts of Kermit, instead of having
to rewrite lots of low-level COM port code? With a well-organized and
well-funded Kermit project, the hopes of this are much higher.
POPULAR KERMIT---CODE REUSE---BETTER WORLD

Thanks for reading all this,

Roland Kwee


From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 20:21:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08153
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 03:33:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04249
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 03:33:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit-lovers unite!
Date: 7 Oct 1994 20:21:41 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <374akl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:

:I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely
:ADORE Kermit!

Why don't you propose the creation of comp.protocols.kermit.advocacy ?
I would vote yes...  It is a bit difficult, though. Since many people
have been brainwashed by the zmodem-cult :-)
Maybe under the alt hierarchy is easier to create the newsgroup.

-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 19:10:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14353
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 06:43:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10138
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 06:43:58 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Crash recovery ?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <36ua84$[e-mail]> <36ue90$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:10:24 GMT
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36ue90$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <36ua84$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
>Rahardjo) writes:
>> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol?
>> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem.
>>
>Not only is there a plan, it's done.  Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit
>5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular
>Kermit implementations soon thereafter.  Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce
>for announcements.
>
>- Frank

    Where is this protocol addition documented?  (Those of us writing
our own Kermit implementations from scratch would also like to take advantage
of this.)
              - Tim Kientzle


From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 19:34:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15786
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 07:32:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11972
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 07:32:26 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:34:54 GMT
Lines: 43
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joseph Huber)
writes:
> For some reason, I can't get more than 1250cps with compressed files
> using kermit; however, running an external zmodem protocol from within
> kermit, I can get 1600cps.  I'm using 5A(189) for OS/2 on one end and
>
   Here's a quick comparison that may help nail down the difference.
Try enabling `escape control characters' in your ZModem transfer and
compare the speed there.  If that slows down ZModem to match your
Kermit speed, then the difference is that Kermit escapes all control
characters, while ZModem's default is more optimistic.
   Basically, Kermit's default is conservative, and ZModem's defaults
are optimistic.  Thus, Kermit's defaults allow it to work in
situations that ZModem won't, but make it slower under nice
conditions.  Properly configured, the two are pretty much equivalent,
speedwise.
   For comparison, the common ZModem default settings correspond
roughly to the following Kermit settings:

     block check: 3  (a)
     packet size: 1024
     window size: large (b) (c)
     control characters escaped: 1, 16, 17, 19 (d)

Notes:
  a) ZModem actually uses a 32-bit CRC instead of Kermit's 16-bit CRC.
For a variety of reasons, they're roughly equivalent.  (ZModem needs a
more robust CRC because it lacks other error checks that Kermit does
use.)
  b) Some ZModem implementations use the file on disk as a buffer,
which allows the window to be as large as the file.
  c) ZModem typically collapses to a 1-packet window after each error,
then goes back to a large window after the error is corrected.  Kermit
doesn't usually need to do this because of it's more sophisticated
windowing strategy.  (Thus, Kermit is often faster than ZModem when
errors do occur.)
  d) Actually, ZModem escapes 24 instead of 1, but the reason for that
doesn't apply to Kermit, so Kermit doesn't need 24, but typically does
need 1.
                - Tim Kientzle




From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 14:40:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21562
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 10:43:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01862
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 10:43:01 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!drunivac.drew.edu!pcoen
From: [e-mail] (Paul R. Coen)
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Math Department)
Nntp-Posting-Host: drunivac.drew.edu
Organization: Drew University Academic Computing
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <372cbb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 14:40:29 GMT
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>
> Whaddaya think about offering a ringbound version of the Kermit manuals
> (MS-Kermit and C-Kermit - don't know much about the manuals for CPM and
> such) for $10 more each?
>
> Maybe for the *next* MS-Kermit and C-Kermit book, perhaps, if not this one.
>
>
> I'd be willing to pay $60 for the ringbound edition, if the paperbound
> edition that I'm ordering is as good as I expect and have heard!  :-)
>
> Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and
> print a nice binder?  *Then* you could offer updates to the manual, when
> new revisions come out, and before the next Kermit book was written!
>


A paperback with a lay-flat binding, like O'Reilly & Associates use, IBM
uses for the OS/2 manual, and Digital now uses for OSF/1 and OpenVMS docs
seems to be the new thing.

It works as well as a standard three-ring binder, unless you're on the first
few pages (usually junk) or last few pages (who needs it flat when looking
through an index?)

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 18:29:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29959
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 14:31:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14396
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 14:31:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 8 Oct 1994 18:29:35 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 31
Sender: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <376oef$[e-mail]>
References: <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <37489a$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37489a$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:

|>
|> ... please advice how does one set up a
|> publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically
|> mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements
|> with the CDROM producers.  Please also advice where do I find the
|> additional time an motivation needed for something which I do much
|> of my spare time.
|>

1. I don't see how mirroring is a problem.  It is completely ok to have
   Kermit on an ftp site.
2. When you first mentioned you had neither the time nor motivation to
   treat Kermit as a special case I wondered, but did not ask, "Could
   Kermit's special status be accomplished by setting group permissions?"

I admit that I am completely ignorant of garbo, I do not even know if it
is on a Unix host.  And I agree that you have every right not to spend
your time coming up with a special approach to include Kermit on your
ftp site and not on your CD-ROM distribution. But I wonder if there might
not be a simple solution to the problem if you were willing to look for it.
The answer that you've got better ways to spend your time is valid.  Mind you,
if it is as easy as setting group permissions then you can't really blame
people for saying that your position wrt Kermit is "completely bogus".

--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 19:21:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02019
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:22:00 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17141
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:21:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 8 Oct 1994 14:21:54 -0500
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 43
Message-Id: <376rgi$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>    Speaking for myself here. Reviewing the past ten days of intense
>discussion on this list has left a very positive impression on me.

I'm glad to hear that.  I don't want anything I have said to be
taken as a criticism of the quality of the work that has gone into
kermit or the intentions of the people doing it.  But, times have
changed and perhaps the distribution policies have to adapt to
continue to serve the intent.  One thing that I think would help
would be to offer licensing for commercial use of either the full
program or parts of the code with an up-front pricing scheme less
than it would cost anyone to re-invent it.  This would have several
advantages besides generating some income.  There would be fewer
"bad" implementations around to reduce the support problems about
interoperation.  People who need hand-holding could be encouraged to
use one of the commercial products from companies prepared to provide
it.  Companies who want to hide a fully scripted communications module
inside a larger product would be able to use kermit (giving the end
user a book is kind of silly in this scenario).  And, you might even
get back some improvements to the code from commercial developers.

MS-kermit does some nifty network stuff in addition to the communication
protocol.  The same thing could be done in this area to make the code
reusable for both free and commercial products.  For example I put
together a version of GNUtar for DOS that speaks rsh/rexec to a unix host
using the WATTCP library.  I'd love to be able to do approximately
the same over netbios between two DOS machines or use ODI drivers without
a packet driver shim like kermit does.  However, it is pretty clear that
it is impossible to combine anything with the GNU and Columbia copyrights
in the same package, free or not (doing it with WATTCP is fuzzy enough).

Personally, even though I like free software and source availability, I
think that being available, supported and affordable is more important
than being free.  If it is impossible to keep up with the demands for
updates and support in a free product, maybe it is time to split the line
into free and commercial versions and let the user make the choice.  This
makes more sense to me than making people pay on the basis of whether or
not they have access to electronic distribution facilities or their intended
use of the product.

Les Mikesell
  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 19:47:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02933
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:47:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18587
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:47:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 8 Oct 1994 14:47:31 -0500
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <376t0j$[e-mail]>
References: <36ou5m$[e-mail]> <36phpb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, Jamie Watson <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>The GNU project doesn't
>>CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely
>
>Oh, really?  Are you sure about this?  I've seen several statements, from
>several different people in the FSF, saying "If you are going to buy the
>distribution on tape {or whatever}, please buy it from us and not from
>others, because the money from this is important funding for us".  Sounds
>like a very similar situation to me.

Not at all.  The GNU folks explicitly allow and encourage redistribution
of the original copy by any means, free or commercial.  They are simply
suggesting that if you are going to pay someone for your copy it might
as well be them.

However I'm not all that fond of the GNU copyleft either once the code
reaches production quality and is useful to end users.  The GPL requires
that the source be distributed along with binaries with only a couple
of specific exceptions.  Dos/windows users seldom even have compilers
so it is kind of silly to require them to have source code.  With FTP
and CDROM distribution this isn't much of a problem, but with the
more common BBS and floppy disk distributions in the dos world it is
an extra burden.  I'm not against making the source available somewhere,
but I don't see much reason to require distribution to people who
don't want it (and yes, I understand the exceptions...).

Les Mikesell
  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 07:38:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03869
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:13:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19870
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:13:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Crash recovery ?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 94 13:38:43 MDT
References: <36ua84$[e-mail]> <36ue90$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 29
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In article <36ue90$[e-mail]>,
> Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>In article <36ua84$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
>>Rahardjo) writes:
>>> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol?
>>> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem.
>>>
>>Not only is there a plan, it's done.  Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit
>>5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular
>>Kermit implementations soon thereafter.  Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce
>>for announcements.
>>
>>- Frank
>
>     Where is this protocol addition documented?  (Those of us writing
> our own Kermit implementations from scratch would also like to take advantage
> of this.)
---------
    Protocol extension docs usually end up in directory kermit/e on
kermit.columbia.edu. Since the crash recovery item has yet to be hammered
on in public (we have to get MSK 3.14 out) I think Frank is hanging back
on the matter until any gotcha's are resolved. That's just a guess on my
part. I'm sure he could ship you the current draft if you ask him.
    Before your program can take advantage of the feature the rest of
the protocol needs to be implemented, particularly file attributes packets.
If you have gotten that far then fine, else the preliminary work needs
completion.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 21:45:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05227
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:48:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22044
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:48:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!meissner
From: [e-mail] (Michael Meissner)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 07 Oct 1994 21:45:47 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Lines: 70
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36ou5m$[e-mail]> <36phpb$[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: pasta.osf.org
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Tue, 4 Oct 1994 04:42:23 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey T Berntsen)
writes:

| More reasonable distribution.  NOT just Internet FTP.  The GNU project doesn't
| CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely
| (they don't seem to have any problems with CD-ROM's for instance), and source
| is made freely (they also don't seem to have any problems with reasonable
| handling and media charges) available.

Actually the same has come up in the GNU area too (though not as publically).
The following will be in the GCC 2.6.1 documentation (and presumably other GNU
software documentation as well).  Note the points about using distributers that
contribute money back to create new software.  When the flood of CD
distributions sprung up, the FSF's funding shrank, to the extent that they had
to lay off one or more people.

File: gcc.info,  Node: Funding,  Next: Look and Feel,  Prev: Contributors,  Up: Top

Funding Free Software
*********************

   If you want to have more free software a few years from now, it makes
sense for you to help encourage people to contribute funds for its
development.  The most effective approach known is to encourage
commercial redistributors to donate.

   Users of free software systems can boost the pace of development by
encouraging for-a-fee distributors to donate part of their selling price
to free software developers--the Free Software Foundation, and others.

   The way to convince distributors to do this is to demand it and
expect it from them.  So when you compare distributors, judge them
partly by how much they give to free software development.  Show
distributors they must compete to be the one who gives the most.

   To make this approach work, you must insist on numbers that you can
compare, such as, "We will donate ten dollars to the Frobnitz project
for each disk sold."  Don't be satisfied with a vague promise, such as
"A portion of the profits are donated," since it doesn't give a basis
for comparison.

   Even a precise fraction "of the profits from this disk" is not very
meaningful, since creative accounting and unrelated business decisions
can greatly alter what fraction of the sales price counts as profit.
If the price you pay is $50, ten percent of the profit is probably less
than a dollar; it might be a few cents, or nothing at all.

   Some redistributors do development work themselves.  This is useful
too; but to keep everyone honest, you need to inquire how much they do,
and what kind.  Some kinds of development make much more long-term
difference than others.  For example, maintaining a separate version of
a program contributes very little; maintaining the standard version of a
program for the whole community contributes much.  Easy new ports
contribute little, since someone else would surely do them; difficult
ports such as adding a new CPU to the GNU C compiler contribute more;
major new features or packages contribute the most.

   By establishing the idea that supporting further development is "the
proper thing to do" when distributing free software for a fee, we can
assure a steady flow of resources into making more free software.

     Copyright (C) 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
     Verbatim copying and redistribution of this section is permitted
     without royalty; alteration is not permitted.

--
Michael Meissner    email: [e-mail]        phone: [phone]
Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA, 02142

Old hackers never die, their bugs just increase.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 17:51:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06563
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:18:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24020
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:18:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!kfk.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!darum.uni-mannheim.de!mips.ruessel.sub.org!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Documentation
Date: 8 Oct 1994 18:51:26 +0100
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <376m6u$[e-mail]>
References: <371trl$[e-mail]> <373epb$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: mips.ruessel.sub.org
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

With all the recent talk and flaming about distribution policies and
funding...

>     Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone, "Using C-Kermit", Digital
>     Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1993, 514 pages, ISBN
>     1-55558-108-0.  In computer and book stores, or order direct from
>     Columbia University or from Digital Press.

How much does Columbia University actually get of the DEM 101.80 (~$63)
I paid for my copy?

--
Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany
[e-mail] / [e-mail]
   "I am Lefty of Borg.  Prepare to be assim... OOH! PIZZA!"  --Lefty

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:10:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06640
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:20:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24263
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:20:46 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:10:24 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 84
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <3771s0$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

This is what we have now come to.  I must have expressed myself very
thoughlessly on the Usenet news in comp.protocols.kermit.misc.  My
apologies for that.  However, I want set one thing straight publicly
in the open when I start getting this kind of feedback.  There is
not one single cent that I have ever earned from Garbo's operations.

   All the best, Timo

:-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100
:-From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
:-To: [e-mail]
:-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
:
:> Jamie,
:
:Have we met before?  Do I know you from somewhere?  I think not, and in
:polite society one does not presume to address another by first name
:without being invited to do so.
:
:> so far this has been a genuine discsussion.
:
:There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion.
:You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others.
:Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that.  Fine.  But
:when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove
:the software from your on-line distribution.  You constantly trumpet the
:fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered
:to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and
:provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author
:requires.  Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely
:trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort.  Fine,
:but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and
:don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person
:you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service.
:
:> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like.
:
:How very generous of you.
:
:> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations.
:
:Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some
:people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are
:conducting.
:
:> It has been a difficult issue.  Starting a fight with such sniping is
:> not going to make it any easier.
:
:Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed
:to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult.
:Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on
:your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit
:group became too large, and they finally had to shut down.  Who would
:have profited from this?  You, and the others selling the software.
:Who would have lost?  Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and
:all the people who want to see it continue.  I believe very strongly
:that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is
:absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some
:money.
:
:Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that
:I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software,
:on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe,
:since Version 11 Release 1.  What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too.
:No charge.  No payment.  The only requirement is that I get back the same
:number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the
:tapes every release.  The mailing costs have been paid partially by my
:employers, and partially out of my own pocket.  The time and work to make
:the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all
:been donated by myself and my wife.  I have averages something over 150
:tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still
:making the same offer for R6.  So please, don't tell me what a wonderful
:saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and
:then sell them for $20 each.
:
:If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the
:best you can at it.  If it requires a little extra effort on your part
:to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make
:the effort.  If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the
:decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts
:of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the
:public good.
:
:jw

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:21:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07071
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24847
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:15 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <3771s0$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <3771s0$[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:21:46 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <3772ha$[e-mail]>
References: <3771s0$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<3771s0$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:29:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07072
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24849
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:15 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:29:02 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 87
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <3772uu$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I must have expressed myself very badly on the Usenet news in
comp.protocols.kermit.misc.  My apologies for that.  I have little
to add except that there is not a single cent that I earn from
Garbo's operations.  I fact I am personally way in the red in Garbo
operations since I pay my not negligible connection time from my
home to the office out of my own pocket.  I've done this out of
interest in what I do.  Please don't make me out like some kind of a
profiteering leech.

   All the best, Timo

:-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100
:-From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
:-To: [e-mail]
:-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
:
:> Jamie,
:
:Have we met before?  Do I know you from somewhere?  I think not, and in
:polite society one does not presume to address another by first name
:without being invited to do so.
:
:> so far this has been a genuine discsussion.
:
:There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion.
:You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others.
:Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that.  Fine.  But
:when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove
:the software from your on-line distribution.  You constantly trumpet the
:fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered
:to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and
:provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author
:requires.  Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely
:trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort.  Fine,
:but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and
:don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person
:you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service.
:
:> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like.
:
:How very generous of you.
:
:> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations.
:
:Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some
:people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are
:conducting.
:
:> It has been a difficult issue.  Starting a fight with such sniping is
:> not going to make it any easier.
:
:Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed
:to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult.
:Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on
:your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit
:group became too large, and they finally had to shut down.  Who would
:have profited from this?  You, and the others selling the software.
:Who would have lost?  Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and
:all the people who want to see it continue.  I believe very strongly
:that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is
:absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some
:money.
:
:Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that
:I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software,
:on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe,
:since Version 11 Release 1.  What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too.
:No charge.  No payment.  The only requirement is that I get back the same
:number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the
:tapes every release.  The mailing costs have been paid partially by my
:employers, and partially out of my own pocket.  The time and work to make
:the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all
:been donated by myself and my wife.  I have averages something over 150
:tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still
:making the same offer for R6.  So please, don't tell me what a wonderful
:saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and
:then sell them for $20 each.
:
:If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the
:best you can at it.  If it requires a little extra effort on your part
:to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make
:the effort.  If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the
:decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts
:of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the
:public good.
:
:jw

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:43:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07780
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25944
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <3772uu$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <3772uu$[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:43:46 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <3773qi$[e-mail]>
References: <3772uu$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<3772uu$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:49:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07781
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25947
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:49:41 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 88
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37745l$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I must have expressed myself very badly on the Usenet news in
comp.protocols.kermit.misc.  My apologies for that.  I wish to say,
however, one additional thing here in public when the feedback
starts to be like this.  There is not one single cent that I have
ever personally earned from Garbo's operations.  In fact I am
personally way in the red in maitaining Garbo, since I pay my not
negligible connection time from my home to the office out of my own
pocket.  I've done this out of interest in what I do.  Please don't
take me as some kind of a profiteering leech.

   All the best, Timo

:-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100
:-From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
:-To: [e-mail]
:-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
:
:> Jamie,
:
:Have we met before?  Do I know you from somewhere?  I think not, and in
:polite society one does not presume to address another by first name
:without being invited to do so.
:
:> so far this has been a genuine discussion.
:
:There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion.
:You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others.
:Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that.  Fine.  But
:when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove
:the software from your on-line distribution.  You constantly trumpet the
:fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered
:to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and
:provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author
:requires.  Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely
:trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort.  Fine,
:but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and
:don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person
:you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service.
:
:> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like.
:
:How very generous of you.
:
:> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations.
:
:Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some
:people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are
:conducting.
:
:> It has been a difficult issue.  Starting a fight with such sniping is
:> not going to make it any easier.
:
:Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed
:to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult.
:Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on
:your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit
:group became too large, and they finally had to shut down.  Who would
:have profited from this?  You, and the others selling the software.
:Who would have lost?  Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and
:all the people who want to see it continue.  I believe very strongly
:that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is
:absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some
:money.
:
:Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that
:I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software,
:on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe,
:since Version 11 Release 1.  What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too.
:No charge.  No payment.  The only requirement is that I get back the same
:number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the
:tapes every release.  The mailing costs have been paid partially by my
:employers, and partially out of my own pocket.  The time and work to make
:the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all
:been donated by myself and my wife.  I have averages something over 150
:tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still
:making the same offer for R6.  So please, don't tell me what a wonderful
:saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and
:then sell them for $20 each.
:
:If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the
:best you can at it.  If it requires a little extra effort on your part
:to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make
:the effort.  If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the
:decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts
:of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the
:public good.
:
:jw

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:51:44 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08185
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:00:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26469
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:00:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <37745l$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <37745l$[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:51:44 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37749g$[e-mail]>
References: <37745l$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<37745l$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 21:55:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08218
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:01:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26492
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:01:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit distribution discussion, an apology
Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:55:35 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 90
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <3774gn$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I must have expressed myself very badly on the Usenet news in
comp.protocols.kermit.misc.  My apologies for that.  I wish to say,
however, one additional thing here in public when the feedback
starts to be like this.  There is not one single cent that I have
ever personally earned from Garbo's operations.  In fact I am
personally way in the red in maintaining Garbo, since I pay my not
negligible connection time from my home to the office out of my own
pocket.  I've done this out of interest in what I do.  Please, don't
take me as some kind of a profiteering leech.

   All the best, Timo

:-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100
:-From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
:-To: [e-mail]
:-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution
:
:> Jamie,
:
:Have we met before?  Do I know you from somewhere?  I think not, and in
:polite society one does not presume to address another by first name
:without being invited to do so.
:
:> so far this has been a genuine discussion.
:
:There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion.
:You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others.
:Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that.  Fine.  But
:when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove
:the software from your on-line distribution.  You constantly trumpet the
:fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered
:to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and
:provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author
:requires.  Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely
:trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort.  Fine,
:but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and
:don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person
:you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service.
:
:> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like.
:
:How very generous of you.
:
:> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations.
:
:Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some
:people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are
:conducting.
:
:> It has been a difficult issue.  Starting a fight with such sniping is
:> not going to make it any easier.
:
:Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed
:to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult.
:Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on
:your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit
:group became too large, and they finally had to shut down.  Who would
:have profited from this?  You, and the others selling the software.
:Who would have lost?  Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and
:all the people who want to see it continue.  I believe very strongly
:that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is
:absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some
:money.
:
:Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that
:I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software,
:on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe,
:since Version 11 Release 1.  What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too.
:No charge.  No payment.  The only requirement is that I get back the same
:number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the
:tapes every release.  The mailing costs have been paid partially by my
:employers, and partially out of my own pocket.  The time and work to make
:the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all
:been donated by myself and my wife.  I have averages something over 150
:tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still
:making the same offer for R6.  So please, don't tell me what a wonderful
:saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and
:then sell them for $20 each.
:
:If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the
:best you can at it.  If it requires a little extra effort on your part
:to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make
:the effort.  If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the
:decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts
:of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the
:public good.
:
:jw



From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 22:38:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11661
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 19:40:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02329
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 19:40:48 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 22:38:57 GMT
Expires: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT
Lines: 48
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by
>people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"?

No, you certainly aren't.  I stayed out of this discussion for a long time,
because it seemed to be progressing rationally.  People complained about
not being able to put Kermit on CD-ROM.  Frank explained why that was not
going to be allowed.  But then the same people complained about the reason
it was not to be allowed, and things went downhill from there.  Now we
have reached the point where a several people are simply repeatedly
posting messages that say "Frank, I like you, and I respect you, but I
really don't understand why you would be so stupid as to stick to what
you believe in and have been saying all along, rather than changing your
mind and doing what I want you to do."

However, the absolute low point so far has been reached when people
start saying "Please tell us all exactly what the legal and financial
restrictions you are working under are, so we can suggest ways to get
around them."  I absolutely can't imagine *anyone* having the gall to
say something like this.  How would the people who say this like to
conduct a public discussion of their day to day decisions, so that
anyone and everyone can second-guess, criticise or simply dump on the
people who have to make these decisions?

It seems to me that a large part of the problem for both sides here is
that they are unwilling to allow a precedent to be set.  Frank is not
willing to allow the precedent of Kermit being distributed on CD-ROM,
because he believes that it will dramatically increase the support load
without a corresponding increase in revenue.  Those who operate Internet
archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to
allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from
the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to
make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so.

Consider the potential consequences of each side of this.  If Kermit were
to be distributed on CD-ROM, and it turned out that Frank is right, there
is a possibility that Columbia would simply pull the plug on the Kermit
group.  Most likely, Kermit would then slowly die, in the worst case,
eventually there will be no kermit any more, so no one will be able to
get it.  On the other hand, if Kermit is not allowed on CD-ROMs, some
unknown number of people will not stumble across it by accident, and so
may never become Kermit users.  But the simple fact is, anyone who knows
that kermit exists and wants to get a copy will still be able to do that.
Either electronically, or from Columia by mail order, or from somewhere
else.  I simply don't believe that there will be anyone, anywhere, who
will end up saying "gee, I would really like to get a copy of Kermit,
but it is not on the XXYYZ CD-ROM, so I can't get it".

jw

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 00:38:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13613
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:38:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05631
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:38:56 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!ddsw1!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 8 Oct 1994 19:38:52 -0500
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <377e2t$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, Jamie Watson <[e-mail]> wrote:

>However, the absolute low point so far has been reached when people
>start saying "Please tell us all exactly what the legal and financial
>restrictions you are working under are, so we can suggest ways to get
>around them."

Guess I missed that one.  What I saw was more like people asking what
exactly the restrictions are so they can stay within them.  Even if
that means many people will be unable to use kermit or even remain
unaware that it exists, or only know about it from the commercial
copies.

>Those who operate Internet
>archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to
>allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from
>the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to
>make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so.

It is actually pretty much irrelevant how many internet sites keep a
copy of kermit.  If you have access to any ftp archive you can just
as easily reach them all, including Columbia's.   The people without
ftp access are the ones affected here.

Les Mikesell
 [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 01:01:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14421
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:01:16 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06735
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:01:14 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 9 Oct 1994 01:01:13 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <377fcp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot.  I also use
Telix.  Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit.

What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit?  Kermit _is_ writing to
hardware, not BIOS.

Any other ideas?
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 00:22:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15978
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:46:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09218
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:46:08 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!ames!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:22:41 GMT
Lines: 29
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
David Quattlebaum ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain
>row,col location? I use this ability in procomm plus, but can't find a
>way to duplicate this feature in MSK 3.13.

    I may be missing something, but my observation is that when you run
    a script in MS-Kermit, you're taken out of terminal emulation mode
    and put in command mode.  In command mode, whatever comes in
    through the serial port is simply read as a stream of characters
    (including the escape sequences that would format your screen if
    you were in terminal mode), and is not interpreted into rows and
    columns.  Input commands simply read this stream for a character
    string match.

    It's possible that the ID or whatever it is you want to detect can
    be differentiated from the same string elsewhere on your screen
    because it is preceeded or followed by escape sequences.  You can
    determine whether or not it is by turning on session logging, which
    records the actual stream of characters that goes through your
    serial port, and not just what you see on the screen during
    terminal emulation.  You could then put an input command in your
    script that includes these escape sequences, using backslash codes
    for control characters (eg. \27 for escape).

    Hope that helps.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 00:09:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17064
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 22:23:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11451
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 22:23:19 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!jhuber
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Huber)
Subject: Re: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:09:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <373ej0$[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas Metronet Communications Services, Dallas TX
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

 [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>As long as flow control is effective everywhere -- and it probably is
>because Zmodem gets 1600cps on the same connection, you can squeeze the
>additional 20-26% performance out of the connection by telling Kermit not
>to prefix most control characters

Yes, this is the "solution". I tried prefixing only 0, 1, and 129 a couple of
day ago and got numerous lockups with file transfer. For the hec of it, I
tried it again and it worked like a charm. I later found out that my internet
provider was having a server problem which was causing the lockups, not the
prefixing I was doing in kermit.


From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 14:59:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18541
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:12:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13874
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:12:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 94 20:59:50 MDT
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <377fcp$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee) writes:
> I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot.  I also use
> Telix.  Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit.
>
> What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit?  Kermit _is_ writing to
> hardware, not BIOS.
>
> Any other ideas?
------------
    No other ideas. If you are asking about whys then I can say that
MSK has a heck of a lot more work to do for each screen character than
simpler programs. That's going to start showing when the cpu is the weakest
link in the chain, and maybe that's the case on your XT.
    I did not notice any size of qualifiers, nor any reference to the
operating conditions you are using, or which version of Kermit so I will
stop here.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 03:51:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19869
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:51:23 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16028
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:51:22 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 9 Oct 1994 03:51:21 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <377pbp$[e-mail]>
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
|    I did not notice any size of qualifiers, nor any reference to the
|operating conditions you are using, or which version of Kermit so I will
|stop here.

A valiant try, appreciated.  I'll try to give more information.

I use Kermit and Telix, plus an Intel 144/144e 14.4k external model, to log
into Columbia University's Unix server.  One place the difference in screen
updating is very prominent is with my preferred editor, JOE.  Ctrl-K-H in
JOE brings up a 10-line help window on the top of my screen.  I'm using
Telix right now, and the window _flashes_ onto the screen, everything below
the screen gets moved down enough to make room, etc.  In Kermit, it's quite
fast, too, but clearly not as fast.  As I wrote in my original post, I've
set both programs to write to the screen directly.

---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 15:13:37 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20981
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:12:55 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17399
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:12:54 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 94 21:13:37 MDT
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <377fcp$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee) writes:
> I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot.  I also use
> Telix.  Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit.
>
> What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit?  Kermit _is_ writing to
> hardware, not BIOS.
-------
    Oh, I did forget to add one suggestion. If your system uses a CGA
display then Kermit automatically includes "snow" suppression. Not all CGA
adapters need that treatment, and you can try turning it off with the "0"
argument to SET TERM COLOR. Say SET TERM COLOR ?  to see the syntax.
Notice that this affects screen updates as well as screen scrolls, with
the latter being the slowest operation of the video system. Many programs
(er, programmers) today forget (never new about) about snow occuring on older
computers.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 05:05:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23731
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 01:05:25 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20033
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 01:05:24 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 9 Oct 1994 05:05:23 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <377tmj$[e-mail]>
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
|    Oh, I did forget to add one suggestion. If your system uses a CGA
|display then Kermit automatically includes "snow" suppression. Not all CGA
|adapters need that treatment, and you can try turning it off with the "0"

I've checked for that, but I thought the 'turn-off-snow-suppression' code
was 10, not 0.
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 02:38:45 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02424
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 05:45:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29773
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 05:45:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!concert!ais.com!bruce
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Windows Kermit question
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Oct 94 06:38:45 EDT
References: <371450$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC
Lines: 43
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
> In article <371450$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (JOHN M. TROIANO) writes:
>>         I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3,
>> 5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function
>> keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application
>> that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on
>> these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break"
>> (ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the
>> latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it
>> was written this way?
> ----------
>     The program was written more as a demonstration for Windows workers
> than as a mainline production tool. It was a subset of mainline Kermits when
> it was written. It has not been updated and lacks support. Given these
> factors and its vintage we recommend that you use MS-DOS Kermit in Windows
> (it works well there, by design). When and if we acquire sufficient funding
> and people to create a pure Windows Kermit then it will be uptodate and
> full, but we don't have either at the moment.
>     Joe D.

At one point I did a little hacking on the Windows version of Kermit to
add some features to it that a customer wanted.  The reasons for the
choice of that program are not relevant to this discussion (they needed
the Chinese character set, for one thing, which is not possible with the
MS-DOS version of Kermit, and they did not need many of the other features
of the mainline Kermit package).

The choice of F5 as break is because that's what VT terminals use as a
break key.  Many of them don't allow you to remap the F5 key to anything
else, unfortunately.  There's no good reason for a Windows program to have
the same restriction, and more modern VT terminals do allow you to remap
the key anyway, so it should have allowed it.  However it's still not
nice of the remote application to require the use of the F5 key since some
VT terminals cannot generate this sequence.  But as Joe says, the Windows
version of Kermit has a number of limitations that the MS-DOS version does
not have.

It's not difficult to get the sources to Windows Kermit, so you could
always modify it yourself to add that to it.  I might even be persuaded
to do it for you for the right price :).  But if you want something to
work out of the box, MS-DOS Kermit is usually a better choice.

Bruce C. Wright

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 13:21:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08362
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 09:31:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19913
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 09:31:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj
From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 9 Oct 1994 13:21:57 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <378qpl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36v9mg$[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
...
:Consider the potential consequences of each side of this.  If Kermit were
:to be distributed on CD-ROM, and it turned out that Frank is right, there
:is a possibility that Columbia would simply pull the plug on the Kermit
:group.  Most likely, Kermit would then slowly die, in the worst case,
:eventually there will be no kermit any more, so no one will be able to
:get it.

I am sorry if I am rehashing it again, but I don't buy the argument.

Are you sure if Columbia pull the plug, Kermit will die ? (I don't think so)
Does Kermit really depend *that much* on Columbia's support ?
If it is true that Kermit will die if Coulmbia pull the plug,
then not many people want to use it since it is not stable and really depends
on Columbia (who knows what the administrator will do. cuts... cuts.. cuts).

Let's stick to one point: Columbia's Kermit team does not want anybody
selling their work without permission. This is valid and reasonable.

Has any CD-vendor approached any of you guys ? How difficult is it to
get the permission ? I want to hear the CD-vendor side of the story too.


-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 17:06:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14982
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 13:12:23 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01676
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 13:12:22 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!drunivac.drew.edu!pcoen
From: [e-mail] (Paul R. Coen)
Subject: OpenVMS and crash recovery
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Math Department)
Nntp-Posting-Host: drunivac.drew.edu
Organization: Drew University Academic Computing
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:06:11 GMT
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Is it just me, or could crash recovery be implemented in the VMS version
of C-Kermit by translating the file to Stream-LF as it's read in on download?

After all, if after stopping a download, I log into a Unix system and
cd to the NFS-mounted drive from the VMS system, I can use C-Kermit to
resume the download, and it works fine.  The only difference is that the
Multinet NFS server on the VMS system translates the file into Stream-LF
when it passes the data over to the Unix system.

I can think of a few problems this could cause, but if it were a feature
that could be enabled or disabled, that would dodge that issue.

I could be missing something here, like it's a lot harder than I'm thinking
it should be, but it seems like something that works most of the time on
binaries (especially zipfiles, which are generally are already stream-lf
anyway) could be done.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 19:33:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20173
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 15:33:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10472
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 15:33:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul
From: [e-mail] (Nico Garcia)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 9 Oct 1994 19:33:12 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36ou5m$[e-mail]> <36phpb$[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <376t0j$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bolognese.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 8 Oct 1994 14:47:31 -0500
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Re-read the GNU copyleft. I just examined the one with EMACS. If you
offer to send free copies of the source code for the next 3 years,
commercial providers don't have to include it. I'm uncertain whether
ftp sites count as sending free copies, but I'll bet you could find a
way. An 8mm exabyte with the full GNU source tree only costs about
$20 in media, so sending a few of them to customers who ask could
easily be an incidental expense rather than a burdensome problem.
Even putting emacs source and gzip on floppies would only cost about
$5 in media.

                Nico Garcia
                [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Oct  7 14:12:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25588
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:59:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19732
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:59:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!mathias
From: [e-mail] (Mathias Koerber)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "No Manual, No Support"
Date: 7 Oct 1994 14:12:43 GMT
Organization: Technet, Singapore
Lines: 37
Message-Id: <373l0r$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: unicorn.swi.com.sg
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In (<[e-mail]>) Russell Nelson ([e-mail]) wrote:
| Hey Frank, how about only supporting people who have purchased the
| Kermit manual?

|  1) It generates the income you need to support Kermit.
|  2) It's reasonable.  Why should you help someone who hasn't bothered
|     to help themselves first?

Now *that's* an idea. Put a card into the book, to register for service.
People can either fill it in right when they buy kermit (and thus
get some *bonus* points or so, or when they need service, which
will take until the card reaches Columbia, gets processed etc.

Very reasonable scheme, I love it !!

Only you'd have to make sure the book is available everywhere, or there
was a good mail-order shop for it. I haven't seen many copies here in
Singapore, but then I haven't actively looked..

cheers
| You can serialize new manuals, and ask current manual holders to send
| in the manual's copyright page (with an SASE) to be serialized.  Then,
| if you get a request for help without a valid serial number, refuse it.

| --
| -russ <[e-mail]>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
| Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
| 11 Grant St.      | [phone] (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
| Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

--
Mathias Koerber                                      Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
SW International Systems Pte Ltd                          Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
14 Science Park Drive #04-01 The Maxwell    e-mail: [e-mail]
S'pore 0511       <A HREF=http://www.swi.com.sg/public/personal/mk.html>MK</A>
    War isn't fought to decide who's right,
        but who is left        - ??

many of you advocate, then everybody
| who uses it would have to (a) send us money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become
| an outlaw.  That would include the universities, government agencies,
| research institute, hospitals, convents, and orphanages.

| Why don't we give it rest, eh?  Thanks.

| - Frank

--
Mathias Koerber                                      Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
SW International Systems Pte Ltd                          Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
14 Science Park Drive #04-01 The Maxwell    e-mail: [e-mail]
S'pore 0511       <A HREF=http://www.swi.com.sg/public/personal/mk.html>MK</A>
    Rene Descartes said "I don't think so," and he vanished.    --??

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 21:51:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25729
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:01:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19834
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:01:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 9 Oct 1994 21:51:36 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <379ol8$[e-mail]>
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
:without a corresponding increase in revenue.  Those who operate Internet
:archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to
:allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from
:the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to
:make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so.

In any debate it always is most unfortunate when a discussant shows
an unmistakenly derogatory untertone with an obvious primary goal to
disparage divergent views.  It loses so much of the weight of the
superficially even rationally appearing arguments.  Fortunately,
with the unequivocal exception Mr Watson, and marginally one other
participant, this attitude blessfully has not been the rule in
comtemplating the various aspects of the dilemma discussed.

I particular I would like to salute Joe and Frank for their civility
in explaining their stance both on and off the news about the views
and analysis put forward of yours truly.  I wish we all could have
reached the same level.

It is time to go.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 22:39:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27316
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:41:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22420
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:41:27 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <379ol8$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <379ol8$[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:39:47 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Message-Id: <379rfj$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <379ol8$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<379ol8$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 22:45:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27641
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22888
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:46 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <379rnh$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <379rnh$[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:45:09 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Message-Id: <379rpl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <379rnh$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<379rnh$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 22:49:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27646
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22892
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:48 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <379rve$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <379rve$[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:49:59 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 1
Message-Id: <379s2n$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <379rve$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<379rve$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 22:51:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28035
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:01:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23432
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:01:09 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts
From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:51:59 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 30
Message-Id: <379s6f$[e-mail]>
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
:without a corresponding increase in revenue.  Those who operate Internet
:archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to
:allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from
:the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to
:make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so.

In any debate it always is most unfortunate when a discussant shows
an unmistakably derogatory undertone with an obvious primary goal to
disparage the divergent views.  It loses so much of the weight of
the superficially even rational-appearing arguments.  Fortunately,
with the unequivocal exception of Mr Watson, and marginally maybe
one other participant, this attitude blessfully has not been the
rule in contemplating the various aspects of the difficult dilemma
discussed.

In particular I would like to salute Joe and Frank for their
civility in explaining their stance both on and off the news about
the views and analysis put forward of yours truly.  I wish we all
could have reached the same level.

Time to go.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 23:09:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28318
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:06:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23823
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:06:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!eisner!youdelman
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
Message-Id: <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner>
Date: 9 Oct 94 18:09:29 -0500
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <372cbb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: DECUServe
Lines: 13
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> Ken Udut
<[e-mail]> writes:

> Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and
> print a nice binder?

Docs in a binder would be fine with me.  Unfortunately this doesn't
seem to be the trend these days, even though there's a major difference
in convenience of use..  Even just the pages (and I supply the binder)
would suffice if cost or store shelf space are otherwise problems.

Billy Y..


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 23:38:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29689
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:40:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26035
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:40:41 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!pilot.njin.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jay Pfaffman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 9 Oct 1994 19:38:02 -0400
Organization: Rutgers University
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <379usq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36q981$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: pilot.njin.net
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Lou Kates)

>What are these detailed organizational and legal constraints under which
>you operate which supposedly prevent you from simply charging for support
>or implementing other solutions which seem to make a lot more sense than
>restricting distribution?

>Perhaps if you spelled them out so that we can all understand
>these barriers then we could all creatively figure out a way around them.

Columbia University is a large university in an especially litigious
area of this country.  There is no way that a normal person (and
certainly not a computer person) could understand the forces at work.
The fact that Kermit is in any way freely distributable is quite
amazing.

We've heard Frank at Columbia say that there's nothing he can do right
now.  He is not an idiot.  He understands the issues.  We've heard
many valid arguments for doing things differently, but LOGIC DOES NOT
APPLY.

Give it a rest.
--
Jay Pfaffman   [e-mail]
802-453-2457

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  9 11:43:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01155
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 20:14:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28010
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 20:14:07 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Oct 94 17:43:40 MDT
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <372cbb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 30
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul R. Coen) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>>
>> Whaddaya think about offering a ringbound version of the Kermit manuals
>> (MS-Kermit and C-Kermit - don't know much about the manuals for CPM and
>> such) for $10 more each?
>>
>> Maybe for the *next* MS-Kermit and C-Kermit book, perhaps, if not this one.
>>
>>
>> I'd be willing to pay $60 for the ringbound edition, if the paperbound
>> edition that I'm ordering is as good as I expect and have heard!  :-)
>>
>> Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and
>> print a nice binder?  *Then* you could offer updates to the manual, when
>> new revisions come out, and before the next Kermit book was written!
>>
> A paperback with a lay-flat binding, like O'Reilly & Associates use, IBM
> uses for the OS/2 manual, and Digital now uses for OSF/1 and OpenVMS docs
> seems to be the new thing.
>
> It works as well as a standard three-ring binder, unless you're on the first
> few pages (usually junk) or last few pages (who needs it flat when looking
> through an index?)
-----------
    All very nice ideas. May I suggest you contact the publisher and
explain your suggestions and why you think they would be important. It's
the publisher who makes those decisions in the end. And while you have
their attention ask what they are doing to put copies in more bookstores.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 10 03:23:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08733
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 23:30:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10902
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 23:30:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: C-Kermit and Screen Rollback
Date: 9 Oct 1994 23:23:52 -0400
Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <37ac48$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Okay, now one of the things I really love about MS-Kermit, and have
gotten rather used to using is the screen rollback feature.  Now, I
know that this feature isn't implemented under C-Kermit, but my
question is, does anyone out there know of a good way to emulate such a
feature?  I'm looking for any type of answer, from using third-party
programs, to nifty scripts, etc...

Thanks in advance...

        --Jerry

--
|>  Jerry Alexandratos             **  "vengo de la tierra del    <|
|>  [e-mail]      **   fuego ten cuidado cuando  <|
|>  [e-mail]   **   llamas mi nombre..."      <|

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 03:56:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10275
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 00:03:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13037
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 00:03:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 10 Oct 1994 03:56:54 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <37ae26$[e-mail]>
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee) says:

>I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot.  I also use
>Telix.  Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit.
>
>What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit?  Kermit _is_ writing to
>hardware, not BIOS.
>
>Any other ideas?
>---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
>     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
>     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
>     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all
>

Try:

SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048

before starting Kermit.

If this increases your screen updates put it in a batch file with your
Kermit invocation.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 10 02:52:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17889
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 03:10:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20449
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 03:10:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr
From: [e-mail] (Dick Wisan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: On fdc's long reply to ts
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Oct 94 21:52:21 -0500
Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I want to express appreciation for Frank de Cruz's long reply to Timo.
That's the letter I've been hoping for.  Finally, he's given us a
glimpse of the way Kermit is paid for and how the Columbia people see
the shape of the market for computing.  That makes it possible to see
that there may be some sense in the way Kermit is being handled.

The sad thing about this long exchange is that Frank's been defending
what nobody attacks: his or Columbia's *rignt* to offer Kermit on the
terms they do.  The question's been the wisdom of it.

Possibly, I'm slow.  It appears I'm only gradually coming to understand
how much we lost when the US Army closed SIMTEL20.
--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan  - Email: internet [e-mail]
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 12:33:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28571
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 08:44:50 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15257
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 08:44:49 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ankh.iia.org!iia.org!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Rod Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit-lovers unite!
Date: 10 Oct 1994 08:33:23 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 51
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: iia.org
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

> I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely
> ADORE Kermit!  That's the biggest problem with newsgroups.  Complainers
> pop in, pop out, without a hint of responsibility for what they say.
>
> KERMIT-LVRS :->  Quite tempting, in fact!  Too much negativity around
> sometimes - it's great to get away from it when I can :-)
>
> Ken
> [e-mail]

After a temporary brain freeze I finally got my off-line news-reader
to show me the c.p.k.* groups.  I was sad to see how much discussion
there was about the down side of Kermit.  (If buying a manual to help
fund the Kermit effort, development and support, is a down side.)

Being the defacto, if not official, support person for Kermit for our
area and doing a brief stint of answering questions nationally I can
appreciate the Kermit Development (and Support) Team's position.  I
found over 90% of the questions I get could be answered by looking in
the index and reading two to five pages in "Using MS-Kermit".

I personally purchased "Using C-Kermit" and had my employer purchase
"Using MS-Kermit".  Our SysAdmin bought three copies of "Using
C-Kermit" so there is always a copy lying around to use.  The big
problem is most people want a knowledge transplant and are reluctant
to `Read-the-Book'.  But that is another soap box that can be stood on
later.

A decision was made to go with Kermit on our PCs for terminal
emulation since the Data General DASHER 463 and 470 support was added.
Otherwise the terminal emulation package Data General supplied was
$200US at first and now down to about $35 but buggy as all hell if
your hardware wasn't what is thought it should be.  On the other hand
I have yet to find an IBM (MS-DOS) compatible that Kermit wouldn't run
on out of the box.  And there are some real strange combinations
floating around at work.

Since I seem to be running on a bit I'll get to my point.

Kermit is one of those applications software support people dream of,
IMHO!  It transfers files over some of the worst communications lines
without breaking them, runs on most every platform you could want, and
is FREELY AVAILABLE.

Rod Anderson

======================================================================
Nope, this don't necessarily represent my employer's views and I have
even been known to tick them off.  Hell, I'm not even going to tell
you who I work for. ;-)
======================================================================

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 13:47:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03799
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:47:39 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19634
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:47:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: C-Kermit and Screen Rollback
Date: 10 Oct 1994 13:47:35 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <37bgln$[e-mail]>
References: <37ac48$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37ac48$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jerry
Alexandratos) writes:
> Okay, now one of the things I really love about MS-Kermit, and have
> gotten rather used to using is the screen rollback feature.  Now, I
> know that this feature isn't implemented under C-Kermit, ...
>
Right.  This can be implemented in Kermit programs that actually have a
terminal emulator.  C-Kermit in UNIX, VMS, etc, do not include terminal
emulators, but rather a connection to whatever you are using on your
desktop as a terminal or emulator -- e.g. your workstation's terminal
window.  Of course, the OS/2 version of C-Kermit *does* including a
terminal emulator, with rollback, key mapping, etc, so this does not
apply to OS/2 C-Kermit.

> ... but my
> question is, does anyone out there know of a good way to emulate such a
> feature?  I'm looking for any type of answer, from using third-party
> programs, to nifty scripts, etc...
>
This is an increasingly common question.  A similar question is "How do I
use the F keys, arrow keys, etc, with C-Kermit?"  The answer will be
different for each particular system / console driver / terminal window
program.  In general, the information will be found in the manual for your
desktop system.  In many cases, workstation terminal windows include
scroll bars -- e.g. "terminal" or "Stuart" on the NeXT -- and their own
key maps, which you can customize -- e.g. xterm.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 14:14:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05862
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:14:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21552
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:14:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: OpenVMS and crash recovery
Date: 10 Oct 1994 14:14:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <37bi7d$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Paul R. Coen) writes:
> Is it just me, or could crash recovery be implemented in the VMS version
> of C-Kermit by translating the file to Stream-LF as it's read in on
> download?
>
It is my fervent hope that we can get crash recovery added to the VMS
version asap.  We are working on it now, but it is not definite.

There is no easy solution, because we use -- and must use -- the RMS file
system and its numerous facilities to handle the many and varied VMS file
types, and this entails all sorts of issues involving "blocks", internal
buffers, etc.  We have an idea about how to do it, and the proof will be
in the pudding.  But no, it's not as easy as using C-library calls.
That's what the *old* VMS C-Kermit (version 4 era) used to do, and it
was entirely unstatisfactory.  Let's keep our fingers crossed.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 02:06:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05936
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:15:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21666
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:15:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Oct 94 08:06:02 MDT
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]> <37ae26$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37ae26$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>
> In a previous article, [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee) says:
>
>>I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot.  I also use
>>Telix.  Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit.
>>
>>What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit?  Kermit _is_ writing to
>>hardware, not BIOS.
>>
>>Any other ideas?
>
> Try:
>
> SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048
>
> before starting Kermit.
>
> If this increases your screen updates put it in a batch file with your
> Kermit invocation.
-------------
    Huh? INPUT is a script command; the one above enlarges the buffer
used by the INPUT command. Terminal emulation (Connect mode) is not related
to script commands; it has no association with the INPUT buffer.
    But thanks for assisting.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 14:42:33 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07899
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23953
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 10 Oct 1994 14:42:33 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <37bjsp$[e-mail]>
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]> <37ae26$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37ae26$[e-mail]>,
Michael DeCosta III <[e-mail]> wrote:
|SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048
|
|before starting Kermit.

I'll try it (I'm at school right now), but I'm curious; what does it do?  I
don't recall seeing it in the help file.

---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 14:42:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07928
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23967
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <37bjsp$[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <37bjsp$[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Oct 1994 14:42:50 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 5
Message-Id: <37bjta$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<37bjsp$[e-mail]> was cancelled from within trn.
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 14:26:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08128
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24207
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:14 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz
From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: US Army's closure of SIMTEL20 (was On fdc's long reply to ts)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:26:15 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Dick Wisan) writes:
>Possibly, I'm slow.  It appears I'm only gradually coming to understand
>how much we lost when the US Army closed SIMTEL20.

Please tell me what that means.  You haven't lost anything, other than
one program (Kermit) out of over 11,000 that are in the collection.  You
can still get Kermit from Columbia, so you haven't lost it either.

The reason the US Army closed SIMTEL20 was because it had a poor funding
model (does that sound familiar?).  I had to find a new home for the
collection and a new job to support my family.

There were many offers to house the collection but only two to house the
collection *and* to hire its archivist (me).  Both offers were from sites
that use the funding model of CD-ROM sales to support the collection and
its archivist.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  8 20:40:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08211
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24281
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:54 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Funding Kermit
Date: 9 Oct 1994 06:10:55 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <37704n$[e-mail]>
References: <3714tt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

:   PURCHASE THE APPROPRIATE MANUALS

...and lobby your local university bookstore to keep them in stock!

PS Frank and Joe, the Australian number for the publishers
should be written as +61 2 XXX XXXX. The extra zero before
the two gets you Hobart, Tasmania, instead of Sydney, New South
Wales.

--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 04:09:37 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13021
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:49:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29791
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:49:40 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit CD ROM?
Date: 10 Oct 1994 13:39:37 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <37aeq1$[e-mail]>
References: <36lhti$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Michael DeCosta III ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Hmmm....I know Columbia probably doesn't have the staff for this,
: but it sure sounds like a Kermit CD-ROM full of Kermits, Kermit utilities,
: scripts and manuals from Columbia could be a fund generator?

Sounds good and very logical. It would save on buying tapes, and if updated
with major releases (e.g. C-Kermit 5A 190) would save on FTPing.

--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 16:53:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18365
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:02:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06105
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:02:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: changing IRQ's
Date: 10 Oct 1994 16:53:29 -0000
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 6
Message-Id: <37bri9$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: news.delphi.com
Keywords: IRQ
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

can anyone out there tell me how to change IRQ's in Kermit 3.11.
i'm trying to tell it to recognize com4 at IRQ2.
thanks for any help




From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 18:47:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29693
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:31:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18360
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:31:04 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!seunet!news2.swip.net!seunet!kullmar!bk
From: [e-mail] (Bo Kullmar)
Subject: Re: Crash recovery ?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: ABC-Klubben
References: <36ua84$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:47:27 GMT
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <36ua84$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo) writes:

>Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol?
>This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem.

It is supported in C-Kermit 5A(190) BETA. You have to enable it with
a command and it is only for binary files. The Kermit people don't
like the automatic recovery funktion that is used in Zmodem. I belive
that this function is comming in MS-DOS Kermit as well.

--Bo Kullmar


From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 19:25:08 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01733
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:57:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20552
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:57:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.cc.tut.fi!kvarkki.ee.tut.fi!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Kaukasoina Petri)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:25:08 +0200
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37c4ek$[e-mail]>
References: <377fcp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <377pbp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: kvarkki.ee.tut.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Yee Chang Lee wrote:

>I use Kermit and Telix, plus an Intel 144/144e 14.4k external model, to log
>into Columbia University's Unix server.  One place the difference in screen
>updating is very prominent is with my preferred editor, JOE.  Ctrl-K-H in
>JOE brings up a 10-line help window on the top of my screen.  I'm using
>Telix right now, and the window _flashes_ onto the screen, everything below
>the screen gets moved down enough to make room, etc.

One more suggestion to solve the problem: Maybe you setenv TERM vt100
in your unix account when you use Telix and vt320 when you use
MS-Kermit?  Make sure you set the same TERM type in both cases!  If the
termcap entry for vt320 is not optimal, your editor may have to redraw
the whole page instead of just moving a part of screen to make room.

-Petri

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 07:42:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06100
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:55:50 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25896
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:55:48 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: changing IRQ's
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Oct 94 13:42:05 MDT
References: <37bri9$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 9
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37bri9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] ([e-mail]) writes:
> can anyone out there tell me how to change IRQ's in Kermit 3.11.
> i'm trying to tell it to recognize com4 at IRQ2.
> thanks for any help
------------
    In the fine manual, which I presume you have handy, is command
SET COMx port irq. Of course there is also the built-in "?" context sensitive
help available instantly.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 21:01:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07018
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27178
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usr1.primenet.com!jew
From: [e-mail] (James Ward)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: set host
Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:01:53 GMT
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <37ca41$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr1.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm having problems getting MS-Kermit 3.13 to access my network when run
under Windows.  Here's my net stack:

\LSL.COM
C:\3C5X9.COM
lh ipxodi
netx
C:\PCTCP\ODIPKT.COM
C:\PCTCP\ETHDRV.EXE

What do I need to do to get kermit to do network things, set host, etc.


From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 21:04:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07032
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27184
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:47 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usr1.primenet.com!jew
From: [e-mail] (James Ward)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: Shiva LAN-rover
Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:04:17 GMT
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 5
Message-Id: <37ca8h$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr1.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am trying to access a Shiva LAN-Rover with MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows.
I have the Shiva software set to redirect COM3, but I cannot convince Kermit
to use the port.  I have tried port Novell, COM3, etc.  Any ideas?

Procomm Plus for Windows works fine.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 08:25:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07719
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:23:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28410
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:23:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Looking for FAQ maintainer
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Oct 94 14:25:56 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 13
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    Now that the regulars have snuggled down in their chairs and
the lengthy greeting ceremonies seem to be drawing to an end I think
it's time for someone to consider being a Keeper of the FAQ for the
list.
    Most common query to-date is how to get max speed at max
vulnerablity. Other c.q.s are running on non-standard serial port
settings, where to find Kermits, what's this fine manual stuff anyway.
Prospective c.q.s are how to add settings for the next wave of cute
modems, binary versus text modes, reporting which Kermit and version
on each end, version numbers of the most widely used Kermits.
    There! I've done my part. Any volunteers keeping notes and
willing to maintain a FAQ?
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 22:45:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13659
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:55:25 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05745
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:55:24 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!larry.infi.net!fastcart
From: [e-mail] (Arcell B. Frazier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: changing IRQ's
Date: 10 Oct 1994 22:45:57 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <37cg75$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: larry.infi.net
To: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

In article <[e-mail]> you wrote:
: In article <37bri9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] ([e-mail]) writes:
: > can anyone out there tell me how to change IRQ's in Kermit 3.11.
: > i'm trying to tell it to recognize com4 at IRQ2.
: > thanks for any help
: ------------
:     In the fine manual, which I presume you have handy, is command
: SET COMx port irq. Of course there is also the built-in "?" context sensitive
: help available instantly.
:     Joe D.

I just helped my brother to setup a new modem.  We did this  all day to find a
way to get it to work.  Its:

set com4 <address> \2

Where address is the COM4 address.  You have to read your computer manual to
find it.  MSK guesses ours at \x02f8 or \x02e8.  But, ours can also be \x03e8
and \x03f8.

set com2 \x2f8 \3

works for us.

--
Fast Cart

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 18:52:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13721
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:56:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05963
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:56:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!cmcl2!cmcl2.nyu.edu!chapman
From: [e-mail] (chapman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Mac Kermit "capture"
Date: 10 Oct 1994 18:52:54 GMT
Organization: New York University
Lines: 8
Message-Id: <37c2i6$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: acf2.nyu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

There is a greyed-out menu option in Macintosh Kermit in the File menu
called

  Print Captured Text...

Can you tell me what this is, and if it's implemented?

- Gary Chapman, NYU

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 00:10:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17615
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 20:10:23 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11396
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 20:10:22 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Mac Kermit "capture"
Date: 11 Oct 1994 00:10:21 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 38
Message-Id: <37cl5d$[e-mail]>
References: <37c2i6$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37c2i6$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (chapman) writes:
> There is a greyed-out menu option in Macintosh Kermit in the File menu
> called
>
>   Print Captured Text...
>
> Can you tell me what this is, and if it's implemented?
>
The only kind of printing currently supported by Mac Kermit is host-directed
printing, which occurs when the host sends VT100 "printer on" and "printer
off" sequences.

Thus the print menu is normally dimmed.  When the host sends:

  ESC [ 5 i  (or)   ESC [ ? 5 i   --  Turn on printer
  ...text...
  ESC [ 4 i  (or)   ESC [ ? 4 i   --  Turn off printer

The text between these two sequences is put into the "capture buffer".  When
the turn-off-printer sequence is received, the Print menu items become
undimmed and you can print the captured text.  There is a limit of about 32K
on the size of this text.

This type of printing is normally accomplished with a utility on the computer
that you have connected with Mac Kermit, such a "pcprint" UNIX shell script.

  NOTE: As of edit 190, the Print menus have changed somewhat, but the
  operation is substantially the same.  When transparent print material
  arrives, a box appears on the screen saying "Capturing text to be printed",
  and when the transparent print operation is complete, the "Print captured
  text" menu item is activated.  There is a new "Print..." item which is
  undimmed at all times, but apparently does not do anything.

Reportedly, host directed printing works better in 0.99(190) than in
earlier edits, but the print buffer is never cleared.

Hopefully, future releases of Mac Kermit will have additional printing
capabilities: print screen, print selection, log session to printer, etc.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 01:45:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22134
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:45:58 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18385
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:45:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!evarts
From: [e-mail] (Maxwell E Evarts)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: changing IRQ's
Date: 11 Oct 1994 01:45:55 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <37cqoj$[e-mail]>
References: <37cg75$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Summary: Close, but not quite...
Keywords: IRQs SETTING MS-KERMIT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Maybe the \2 in the "set com4 <address> \2" works, but the exact syntax
doesn't call for it, i.e. it should be:

    set com4 \x2e8 2

2e8 being the most common choice for the com4 port address, but as the
previous poster suggests check the manual/jumper settings/dip-switch
settings to be sure.

- Max

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Maxwell Evarts                     [e-mail]
Kermit Distribution
Columbia University - AcIS         [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 13:15:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23265
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20201
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: set host
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Oct 94 19:15:12 MDT
References: <37ca41$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 44
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37ca41$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Ward) writes:
> I'm having problems getting MS-Kermit 3.13 to access my network when run
> under Windows.  Here's my net stack:
>
> \LSL.COM
> C:\3C5X9.COM
> lh ipxodi
> netx
> C:\PCTCP\ODIPKT.COM
> C:\PCTCP\ETHDRV.EXE
>
> What do I need to do to get kermit to do network things, set host, etc.
-------------
    Let's walk through this to see what is happening, and then your
options will be clear.
    You are using Novell's ODI to manage the board. That's LSL followed
by the board ODI driver (MLID in ODI-speak). That forms the ODI handler.
IPXODI comes in as one ODI client, and then ODIPKT from FTP Inc comes in
as a second ODI client. So far so good. Netx uses IPXODI so we are not
concerned with it here. ETHDRV is FTP Inc's TCP/IP stack, and here is
where the complication begins.
    If you try to run Kermit's internal TCP/IP stack (SET PORT TCP/IP)
then you would be trying to load a second TCP/IP stack in parallel with
the first. That is fatal. Don't do it.
    So now, what to do constructively?

    Plan A: run Kermit on the top of Ethdrv, by using FTP Inc Telnet
module TNGLASS. See your FTP Inc documentation. For Kermit use SET PORT
BIOS1 to couple to the Int 14h interface provided by Tnglass. A sample
command line would be similar to
    tnglass -hhost.domain -c1 -ekermit.exe
which specfies the host, Bios port 1 for comms, and executes Kermit.exe
to be the terminal emulator.

    Plan B: unload both Ethdrv and Odipkt. Then run Kermit straight
over ODI. Use Kermit command SET PORT TCP/IP ... in this case.

    Of the two, the second is far faster and permits multiple Telnet
sessions. Choose the method which best suits your requirements. Note that
FTP Inc's ODIPKT uses ARP protocol for copy protection detection and Kermit
won't be able to use it and hence won't be able to do TCP/IP work. Harvard's
ODIPKT will work with both Ethdrv and Kermit, though Kermit needs it and
winpkt only when running in Windows.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 10 13:23:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23269
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20207
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: Shiva LAN-rover
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Oct 94 19:23:32 MDT
References: <37ca8h$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 29
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37ca8h$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Ward) writes:
> I am trying to access a Shiva LAN-Rover with MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows.
> I have the Shiva software set to redirect COM3, but I cannot convince Kermit
> to use the port.  I have tried port Novell, COM3, etc.  Any ideas?
>
> Procomm Plus for Windows works fine.
--------------
    There is a misunderstanding about what SET PORT COM3 does in Kermit.
It means go straight to the serial port hardware. The LAN-Rover is merely
creating an Int 14h Bios-like software interface, not a hardware one which
is impossible, and you should tell Kermit SET PORT BIOS1 to couple to it.
    I'm guessing that is what Shiva has done because that is by far
the most common tactic in such cases. Your Shiva manual should say more.
    To counteract this confusion we've added some words to the
documentation for MSK v3.14 explaining the hardware vs Int 14h choices
more clearly.
    Now, one more guess then I'm done. If the modem provides a real
serial port on COM3 then that's not "redirection"; it is being a regular
modem. In that case either
    - the system provides the COM3 port address and Kermit has to
choose between IRQ 3 and 4 (since there is NO standard on COM3/4), or
    - you tell Kermit the port and IRQ via the SET COM3 port irq
command.
    Procomm makes plenty of macho assumptions without telling you
about it. Kermit does not play that roughly with your machine.
    We have a large amount of documentation talking about modems and
such as part of the distribution text set. Please go to kermit.columbia.edu,
cd kermit/a and get ms*.bwr, ms*.upd, and msr313.pch (all text files).
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 04:35:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29973
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:43:39 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00563
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:43:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!larry.infi.net!fastcart
From: [e-mail] (Arcell B. Frazier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: changing IRQ's
Date: 11 Oct 1994 04:35:54 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <37d4na$[e-mail]>
References: <37cg75$[e-mail]> <37cqoj$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: larry.infi.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Maxwell E Evarts ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Maybe the \2 in the "set com4 <address> \2" works, but the exact syntax
: doesn't call for it, i.e. it should be:

:     set com4 \x2e8 2

: 2e8 being the most common choice for the com4 port address, but as the
: previous poster suggests check the manual/jumper settings/dip-switch
: settings to be sure.

: - Max

I'm using MSK 3.13, and when I type:

set comx \xxxx ?

It says:

Enter, or IRQ of port (ex: \3)

So, I did what it says.  *shrug*

--
Fast Cart

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 03:10:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00277
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:46:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00720
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:46:17 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken)
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <372cbb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner>
Sender: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Organization: Mordor International BBS
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 03:10:23 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 38
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner>, [e-mail] wrote:
> In article <[e-mail]> Ken Udut
> <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> > Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and
> > print a nice binder?
>
> Docs in a binder would be fine with me.  Unfortunately this doesn't
> seem to be the trend these days, even though there's a major difference
> in convenience of use..  Even just the pages (and I supply the binder)
> would suffice if cost or store shelf space are otherwise problems.
>
> Billy Y..
>

It's a pity too, since it's cheaper to print looseleaf pages
(either print on regular paper, or pre-punched 3 hole pages), and
handier).

Although one of the drawbacks is that the pages often get ripped,
etc., and bound books are more permenant(sp?)...

I have a Turbo Pascal 6 book that I used religiously to learn how
to program Pascal.  But as thick as it is, it is bound with paper
and glue binding.  Phooey - try staying open to the book on the first
or last 50 pages - nearly impossible without a large paperweight
holding it down, while typing!

Hopefully wirebound materials will foster more popularity as more
binding companies provide it.  Spiral Company is one of the biggest.

(note: I'm not talking about the plastic ring bound stuff, as they
aren't as nice to deal with as the wire-ringbound, like the classic
spiral notebooks)

--
Kenneth Udut                                          [e-mail]
Listowner of [e-mail] - discussion on the rights of kids/teens

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 11:56:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16361
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:31:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16842
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:31:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!hawk.csd.harris.com!amber!tom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Horsley)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Date: 11 Oct 1994 11:56:05 GMT
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <nicks.781450918@ariel>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:08:12 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>Or am I thinking too wishfully about the "portableness" of C code?  :->

The problem isn't the fact that it is written in C, the problem is that when
it wants to actually do something (like talk to the serial port, or do
timeouts in the scripting language, etc) it does them in a U**x-like
way. Meanwhile the Win32 API, while able to do most of the things U**x can
do functionally, has a completely different philosophy about the way things
work (often a better philosophy, but certainly different :-).

Since I am more interested at this point in learning "the right way" to do
things in Win32, than I am in porting kermit, that's why I say I am unlikely
to do anything real soon.
--
--
[e-mail]
Home: 511 Kingbird Circle Delray Beach FL  33444
Work: Harris Computers, 2101 W. Cypress Creek Rd. Ft. Lauderdale FL  33309
Take the pledge! No votes for Ollie North supporters! NO POND SCUM!

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 03:22:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25055
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:42:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26183
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:42:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!axpvms.cc.utexas.edu!sauron
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 11 Oct 94 09:22:46 CST
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Lines: 10
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: axpvms.cc.utexas.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]



How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with
errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP.
Any ideas?
TIA.
Ian Stirling.
send mail either to [e-mail],


From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 17:09:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10031
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:56:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24752
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:56:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!noc.near.net!eisner!burns
From: [e-mail] (Scott Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Message-Id: <1994Oct11.120947.6533@eisner>
Date: 11 Oct 94 12:09:47 -0500
Organization: DECUServe
Lines: 9
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Actually I thought that platform independent code was kept in a file
specific to the new port. Ie. CKVTIO.C is the VAX terminal I/O code. Other
than that the functions those VAX specific calls get mapped to (ie. say:
CKERMIT_OUTPUT_SERIAL_PORT on a vax called VAX_OUTPUT_SERIAL_PORT )

and any limitations imposed by the CKERMIT_OUTPUT_SERIAL_PORT wrapper why should
there by a problem.

[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 02:29:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10357
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:02:29 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25358
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:02:28 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: backslashing numbers
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Oct 94 08:29:00 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    In MS-DOS Kermit command line arguments which are numbers
can be expressed as 123 or \123 (decimal) or \x5c (hex) or \o67 (octal).
The backslash is used to inform the parser of a following numeric and of
the base of it. If there the context is unambiguous and the base is 10
then no backslash is necessary. But    echo Beep\7 to you guys   needs the
backslash to mean binary 7 in this case.
    Deep down in the code the number converter really wants a
leading backslash. In almost every place (excepting where I forgot)
in the program where a number is expected the code accepts one without
a backslash and the code prepends a missing one.
    Adding a backslash does no harm, but don't use two because,
starting in MSK 3.14 that means a literal backslash, as in C.
    Joe D.


From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 19:50:58 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04385
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:01:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11573
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:01:50 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jolomo
From: [e-mail] (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: C-Kermit and Screen Rollback
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Future Fair
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <37ac48$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:50:58 GMT
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

On 9 Oct 1994 23:23:52 -0400 Jerry Alexandratos wrote:

> Okay, now one of the things I really love about MS-Kermit, and have
> gotten rather used to using is the screen rollback feature.  Now, I
> know that this feature isn't implemented under C-Kermit, but my
> question is, does anyone out there know of a good way to emulate such a
> feature?  I'm looking for any type of answer, from using third-party
> programs, to nifty scripts, etc...

The general-all-purpose solution I've gone with is "screen", ftp-able
from prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu, which is a character-based-terminal
screen manager.  It gives you scroll-back as well as a million
other life-saving features which I won't go into here, other than
if you've never heard of it and you work on a Unix-like system,
give it a look-over.

     Good luck
--
        -joe        "Honey, they're in *everybody's* eggs" --firesigns

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 22:53:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03804
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 01:51:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18730
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 01:51:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!psinntp!psinntp!rutgers!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!xmission!xmission!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fozziliny Moo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 11 Oct 1994 16:53:57 -0600
Organization: XMission Public Access Internet (801 539 0900)
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <37f525$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: xmission
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] writes:



>How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
>I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with
>errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP.
>Any ideas?

Telnet's 7-bit throughput is not friendly with Kermit transfers. If you can,
use rlogin instead of telnet. Otherwise, you may be able to tweak the
Kermit side to work better with telnet.

-Fozz

--
[e-mail]---------In Real Life: Doran L. Barton-----------------
``Praise to the man who has commuted with Jehovah.''
    -A common misconception in Christian theology.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 11 16:41:14 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06189
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 03:01:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20976
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 03:01:29 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!esseye!scholten
From: [e-mail] (David Scholten)
Subject: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out???
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Smiths Industries
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:41:14 GMT
Lines: 20
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17132 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4002 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:655
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this.  But I
am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial
out from my BSDI 1.1 based box.  The problems are similar in nature:

kermit:  when I set the line, it either hangs or get a "communications
disconnected message"  That is all!

taylor:  when trying to dial out, I get a read/write error to the port.


Now, I did discover that if I do an stty -f/dev/tty01 clocal, then taylor
will dial out.  But this only works 75% of the time.  If somebody logs in,
then I have to redo the clocal.  The clocal doesn't seem to do anything for
kermit.  Are all these problems related to the getty running on BSD???

thanks for any help,
Dave Scholten

(please send email responses if possible)


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 07:57:42 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10407
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24100
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:06 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Subject: Re: Kermit distribution discussion, an apology
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <3774gn$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:57:42 GMT
Expires: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3774gn$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
>
>:-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100
>:-From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
>:-To: [e-mail]
>:-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution

Posting a privately mailed message to the net news is an *extremely* low
class thing to do.  I am shocked that someone who claims to be such an
experienced and knowledgeable person would stoop to such a thing.

jw

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 07:48:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10414
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24098
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:05 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <377e2t$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:48:47 GMT
Expires: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>>However, the absolute low point so far has been reached when people
>>start saying "Please tell us all exactly what the legal and financial
>>restrictions you are working under are, so we can suggest ways to get
>>around them."
>
>Guess I missed that one.  What I saw was more like people asking what
>exactly the restrictions are so they can stay within them.

In message <[e-mail]>, posted by [e-mail]

>What are these detailed organizational and legal constraints under which
>you operate which supposedly prevent you from simply charging for support
>or implementing other solutions which seem to make a lot more sense than
>restricting distribution?
>
>Perhaps if you spelled them out so that we can all understand
>these barriers then we could all creatively figure out a way around them.

jw

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 11:27:19 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06566
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:30:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28255
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:30:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5)
Date: 12 Oct 1994 11:27:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols
the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This,
I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in
later versions?
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 08:03:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00832
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:03:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29334
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:03:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!tadpole.com!news.dell.com!swrinde!pipex!news.maz.net!news.ppp.de!news.Hanse.DE!lutzifer.hanse.de!wolfhh!ranahh!vg
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
From: [e-mail] (Volkmar grote)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:04:52 CET
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Me - organized ??!?
X-Newsreader: rusnews v1.06/UUPC
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:

> [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten) writes:
>>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
>>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
>>likely to kill the Kermit effort.
>
> It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM.  If
> it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes.  The
> proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation.  They sell
> 9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs?

I would love it. I still miss my 1/2" tape drive and the TK50.

The debate seems to turn constructive :-|

Volkmar
--
[e-mail]
Volkmar Grote, Gilbertstrasse 25, D-22767 Hamburg, Germany, [phone]

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather.  Not screaming
in terror like his passengers." (nicked from Jim Harkins)

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 13:28:37 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15067
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:28:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02833
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:28:40 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5)
Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:28:37 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <37goa6$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
> In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols
> the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This,
> I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in
> later versions?
>
No, it's not a joke.  Without overstating the obvious, answerback messages
pose a certain security risk.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 13:37:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15725
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:37:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06349
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:37:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:37:41 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 37
Message-Id: <37gor5$[e-mail]>
References: <37f525$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37f525$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fozziliny
Moo) writes:
> [e-mail] writes:
> >How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
> >I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with
> >errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP.
> >Any ideas?
>
> Telnet's 7-bit throughput is not friendly with Kermit transfers. If you
> can, use rlogin instead of telnet. Otherwise, you may be able to tweak the
> Kermit side to work better with telnet.
>
I think the question was "how do you do it?".  The answer is: use Kermit's
TELNET command.  Or if we are talking about MS-DOS Kermit, use the SET
PORT TCP <host> command.  It's all in the documentation.  In case this is
not clear: use Kermit *instead of* Telnet.

As far as performance is concerned, it varies.  On some connections I get
effective file transfer rates of about 1MB/sec, on others (e.g. cross-
country or international connections during busy times), much lower.  As
usual, there are many, many variables.  Also, not all TELNET connections
are 7-bit.  Try normal file transfer settings, and use long packets and
a big window size; tell both Kermits to SET FLOW NONE since TCP and IP
handle flow control themselves quite nicely.  If it doesn't work, then you
probably do have a 7-bit connection, in which case tell Kermit to SET
PARITY SPACE.

If you are talking about "Kermit in the middle", in CONNECT mode between
two other systems, then (a) be sure you tell this "middle" Kermit to
SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8 and SET COMMAND BYTESIZE, and (b) be sure you are
using version 5A(190), which performs much better in this situation than
previous releases.

One of the big plusses of Kermit software is that the same program works
uniformly over serial and network connections -- script programming and all.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 13:40:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15868
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:40:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06562
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:40:40 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out???
Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:40:38 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <37gp0m$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Scholten)
writes:
> This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this.  But I
> am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial
> out from my BSDI 1.1 based box.  The problems are similar in nature:
>
If there is a getty running on the same tty device, shut it down before
attempting to dial out.  Then, if desired, put it back after your dialout
session is finished.

The best way to do this is to wrap Kermit in a shell script that does
whatever your system requires in order to shut down and restart getty on
a device.  As you might imagine, details vary wildly from one UNIX
implementation to the next, from one release of the same UNIX implementation
to the next.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 13:50:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16804
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:53:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07546
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:53:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!adasoft.ch!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <[e-mail]> <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <377e2t$[e-mail]>
Subject: cmsg cancel <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:50:23 GMT
Approved: [e-mail]
Lines: 1
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

cancel <[e-mail]>

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 13:51:18 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16893
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:54:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07604
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:54:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!adasoft.ch!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <3774gn$[e-mail]>
Subject: cmsg cancel <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:51:18 GMT
Approved: [e-mail]
Lines: 1
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

cancel <[e-mail]>

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 12:59:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17819
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:03:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08391
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:03:09 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5)
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:59:15 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols
>the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This,
>I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in
>later versions?

Well, I don't use the Enq (Control-E) anymore but I used to, a few years
back, on a favorite TBBS board.

If you set a username/password in MS-Kermit, I *believe* that is what the
Control-E received from the host will send out.


Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 03:32:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00846
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:42:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21479
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:42:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Oct 94 09:32:20 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols
> the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This,
> I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in
> later versions?
------------
    Depends upon whom pranks are played. Answerback is a nice way of
being sucked into someone else's prank when the answerback string is not
quite what you wanted. We try to avoid this spontaneous suprize by canning
the response and letting the user turn it on or off. The most common use
of answerback was stashing passwords, and that is generally regarded as
not a wise thing to do.
    My advice is forget that answerback ever existed.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 04:16:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06054
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:49:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27186
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:49:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucsnews!newshub.sdsu.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!loghost.sdsc.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Oct 94 10:16:09 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <37f525$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 31
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37f525$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Fozziliny Moo) writes:
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>
>
>>How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
>>I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with
>>errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP.
>>Any ideas?
>
> Telnet's 7-bit throughput is not friendly with Kermit transfers. If you can,
> use rlogin instead of telnet. Otherwise, you may be able to tweak the
> Kermit side to work better with telnet.
------------
    I think I need to make three corrections here.
    First, Kermit works fine simulating an 8-bit comms channel over
a 7-bit channel, by design.
    Second, Telnet is almost always an 8-bit channel these days, needing
only doubling of IAC (\255) or Kermit prefixing of \255 to prevent unwanted
Options stuff. Rlogin is a different animal than Telnet, with its own
protocol requirements. Some rlogins are easy to get along with and forgive
the protocol omissions, others aren't. And, as most of us know, rlogin is
a fat security hole.
    The reader above is perhaps confusing telnet and rlogin facilities
peculiar to Telebit Netblazer modem pools, rather than Unix capabilities.
    Third, I think the original question was how to start a Telnet
session with C Kermit. The answers are a) read the fine manual and release
documentation, and b) give command Telnet host  on modern C Kermits. We don't
know which version of C Kermit and which Unix you are running so we will pause
to see if you have enough information now.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 21:33:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24872
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 17:33:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16805
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 17:33:22 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Intel Modem Script for MS-DOS Kermit
Date: 12 Oct 1994 21:33:20 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 143
Message-Id: <37hkn0$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

A copy of a manual for the "Intel High-Speed Faxmodem" showed up here
recently.  This is a V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis + MNP etc internal data/fax
modem for PCs.  Based on the info in manual, the following dialing
script is postulated, but completely untested, for MS-DOS Kermit.
Questions:

 1. Does it work on the "Intel High-Speed Faxmodem"?

 2. Does it also work on the Intel Satisfaxion modem?

 3. Does the modem indeed "autobaud" at 57600 bps for AT commands?

Please reply to me personally, rather than to the list.  Thanks!

---(cut here)---
; FILE INTEL14.SCR
;
; An MS-DOS Kermit script program for dialing the Intel High-Speed Internal
; Faxmodem, to be used with MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 or later.  The modem is set up
; for compression, error correction, all types of fallback.  RTS/CTS flow
; control, fixed interface speed of 57600 or 38400.
;
def errfail echo \%1, hangup, goto fail ; Macro to handle failures.
if < VERSION 312 errfail {MS-DOS Kermit 3.12 or later required.}

define chkerr if fail stop 1 \%1
define chkok input 3 OK, if fail stop 1 \%1

; Macro to try to get attention of modem's command processor
; at the given speed, or if no speed given, at the current speed.
;
define atok -
 if not def \%1 assign \%1 \v(speed), -
 set speed \%1, -
 echo Trying \%1..., -
 output ATQ0V1\13, -
 input 3 OK, -
 end \v(status)

set input echo on        ; So we can watch what happens.
set input timeout proceed       ; Allow IF SUCCESS, IF FAILURE.
set input case ignore        ; Use caseless string comparisons

set parity none            ; Avoid parity foulups
set flow none            ; Avoid flow control deadlocks
hangup                ; Begin by dropping DTR
pause 1                ; for one second

atok 57600            ; Autobaud...
if fail atok 38400
if fail atok 19200
if fail atok 9600
if fail stop 1 Can't get modem's attention.

output AT E1&C1&D2&S0X4\92V2\13 ; Echoing, result codes, etc.
chkok {Can't initialize modem}

echo Configuring Intel Faxmodem...
out ATB1+FCLASS=0 S7=85 S25=50\13
chkok {Can't set data modulation}
echo Enabling hardware flow control...
output AT \92\G0\92Q3\13
chkok {Can't enable RTS/CTS}
set flow rts/cts
echo Configuring modem to ignore BREAK...
output AT Y0\92K1\13
chkok {Can't become transparent to BREAK}
echo Enabling error correction and data compression...
output AT \92J0\92N3%C1"H3\13
chkok {Can't enable compression EC and fallback}

if def \%1 if not equal "\%1" "=" goto BEGIN
echo Modem initialization complete, no number to dial
end 0

:BEGIN                ; Now DIAL.
clear                ; Clear INPUT buffer.
set count 5                     ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed.
echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait...
echo
pause 1
goto dial                       ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message

:REDIAL
set alarm 30
pause 30            ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing.
if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.}
echo Redialing...               ; Message for redialing.
pause 1

:DIAL
output ATD\%1\13                ; Dial the number.
set alarm 90            ; (For detecting keyboard interruptions.)
clear input            ; Clear echo from INPUT buffer.
input 30 \10                    ; Wait for the linefeeds...

:GETMSG
input 60 \10            ; ...that surround the response message.
if success goto gotmsg        ; Got a message.
if alarm errfail {No response from modem.} ; No response in 90 seconds.
hangup                ; User interrupted from keyboard,
output \13            ; cancel dialing by sending carriage return,
goto again            ; and go try again right away.

:GOTMSG
reinput 1 CONNECT               ; Got a message, was it CONNECT?
if success goto done            ; If so, we're done.
reinput 1 BUSY            ; Line is busy.
if success goto busy        ; Go wait a while and then dial again.
reinput 1 ERROR            ; Command syntax error.
if success errfail {Dialing command error}
reinput 1 NO CARRIER        ; Phone didn't answer or no carrier.
if success errfail {No carrier}
reinput 1 NO ANSWER        ; No answer
if success errfail {No answer}
reinput 1 NO DIALTONE        ; No dialtone when phone taken off hook.
if success errfail {No dialtone - Is your modem connected to the phone
line\63}
goto getmsg            ; None of the above, get another message.

:BUSY
if < \v(count) 2 goto quit    ; Don't wait 30 seconds if tries are used up.
Echo Line is busy, will dial again in 30 seconds
echo Press any key to cancel...
output \13            ; CR cancels dialing
hangup                          ; Hang up.
:AGAIN
if count goto redial            ; Then go redial.
:QUIT
errfail {It never answers!  I give up.} ; Too many tries.

:DONE                           ; Connected.
echo \7                         ; Celebrate with a beep.
define errfail            ; Erase local macro definitions...
define _modcmd
end 0                ; Finished, return success code.

:FAIL                ; Dialing failed, no beep.
define errfail            ; Erase local macro definitions...
define _modcmd
end 1                ; Return failure code.

; End of INTEL14.SCR

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 21:59:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27660
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 18:08:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19680
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 18:08:19 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!braver
From: [e-mail] (Michael Braverman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem
Date: 12 Oct 1994 21:59:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 51
Message-Id: <37hm8c$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnolia.cs.berkeley.edu
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:667 comp.dcom.modems:67902
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Greetings,

I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal
AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem.  I am surprised by this since the
Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport
specific dialing script.  I presume that if others have had
difficulties with the script, the script would have been corrected by
now.  However, I don't know if this is the case, and so I'm writing to
see if others are having the same problem I have had (if not, it could
just be that my modem is defective and I'd like to get some evidence to
this effect so AT&T will replace the unit).

Here are the details:  The modem responds and dials fine if I "connect"
and issue AT commands by hand.  However when I attempt to dial a number
via the 'dial' command along with the DATAPORT.SCR script that comes
with Kermit (version 3.13), I get the following error message:

    No DSR signal - check your modem and cable

According to the script, this message is being generated because a
"wait 0 DSR" command has failed immediately following a command that
sets the port speed.  If I modify the script to pause for a longer
period of time between setting the speed and requiring the DSR signal,
then the script continues on successfully. However, it fails again when
it reaches the following lines:

    set flow rts/cts
    output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13
    chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback}

If I insert a pause between the 'set flow...' command and the
'output...' command, then all is ok, but otherwise the modem doesn't
accept the "AT..." command.  With these two pauses in place, everything
else works fine.

According to the various kermit help files, this type of behavior is
indicative of a "modem problem". However, if there really is a "problem"
with this line of modems, I would expect that the DATAPORT.SCR script
would have the appropriate pauses to take this poor behavior into account.

So, have any of you had similar problems, or heard of such problems, with the
internal version of this modem?   If you haven't had problems with it,
I'd also like to know so I can get AT&T to replace mine.

The modem, incidentally, is being used in a Compaq Deskpro 386/20, with the
standard COM2=2F8h, and no apparent IRQ or other conflicts within the machine.

Thanks for the help,

Michael Braverman
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 23:11:37 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02475
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 19:11:40 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24818
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 19:11:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem
Date: 12 Oct 1994 23:11:37 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 155
Message-Id: <37hqf9$[e-mail]>
References: <37hm8c$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37hm8c$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Michael Braverman) writes:
> I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal
> AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem.  I am surprised by this since the
> Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport
> specific dialing script...
>
Thanks for the report.  If anybody else has had these problems, they have
not reported them.  The first problem "wait 0 dsr" resulting in "please
turn on or connect your modem", means your modem is not asserting DSR.
I think the world must have changed in the last year or two, because DSR
used to mean "I'm turned on and you can use me".  Evidently this is no
longer the default on some modems.  Solution: just remove these WAIT 0
statements from the script.

As to needing a pause after SET FLOW RTS/CTS, maybe the thing to do here
is "wait 5 cts" -- this should make Kermit wait up to five seconds for
CTS to appear, but in any case no longer than necessary.  If it does not
appear after five seconds, we've got a problem anyway!  Please try this
amended script and let me know if it's OK:
---(cut)---
; FILE DATAPORT.SCR (MSMDATAP.SCR)
;
; An MS-DOS Kermit script program for dialing the AT&T / Paradyne Dataport
; 14400 modem, to be used with MS-DOS Kermit 3.11 or later.  The modem is set
; for V.32bis, compression, error correction, all types of fallback, RTS/CTS
; flow control, fixed interface speed of 57600 or 38400.
;
; Rename this file to DATAPORT.SCR if necessary.
;
; To use: SET MODEM=DATAPORT (in DOS, before starting Kermit)
; or:     DEFINE _MODEM DATAPORT (in Kermit, before dialing)
; and:    Make sure Kermit executes the standard MSKERMIT.INI file.
;
; Authors: Christine M. Gianone, Frank da Cruz; Columbia U, September 1993
; Revised Oct 94.
;
def errfail echo \%1, hangup, goto fail ; Macro to handle failures.
if < VERSION 312 errfail {MS-DOS Kermit 3.12 or later required.}

define chkerr if fail stop 1 \%1
define chkok input 3 OK, if fail stop 1 \%1

set input echo on        ; So we can watch what happens.
set input timeout proceed       ; Allow IF SUCCESS, IF FAILURE.
set input case ignore        ; Use caseless string comparisons

set parity none            ; Avoid parity foulups
set flow none            ; Avoid flow control deadlocks
hangup                ; Begin by dropping DTR
pause 1                ; for one second

; Speed.  Don't worry about modem, it autobauds up to 57600 bps.
; NOTE: This modem doesn't seem to have a command for locking the
; interface speed.  But it seems to do it anyway.
;
set speed 57600            ; If computer can be set to 57600 bps, use
it.
if fail set speed 38400        ; If not, use 38400.

echo Configuring AT&T DataPort on \v(line).

:INIT
output ATQ0V1\13        ; Enable word result codes
chkok {Can't get modem's attention}
; X6 = Verbose result codes, show modulation speed
; &C1 = CD follows RS232
; &D2 = DTR follows RS232
; &Q0 = Asynchronous data mode, use AT command set
; S84=0 = Normal ERROR response to bad commands
output AAAT E1 X6 &C1 &D2 &Q0 S84=0\13
chkok {Can't initialize modem}
output AT \92Q3\13        ; RTS/CTS hardware flow control
chkok {Can't enable RTS/CTS}    ; On modem
wait 5 cts
if fail {Modem is not asserting CTS!}
set flow rts/cts        ; And in Kermit too, but only now
output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13 ; Modulation = V.32bis with fallback
chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback}
output AT \92N7%C1\13        ; Compression and EC enabled
chkok {Can't enable compression and EC}
output AT \92K5\13        ; Make modem pass BREAK transparently
chkok {Can't become transparent to BREAK}

if def \%1 if not equal "\%1" "=" goto BEGIN
echo Modem initialization complete, no number to dial
end 0

:BEGIN                ; Now DIAL.
clear                ; Clear INPUT buffer.
set count 5                     ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed.
echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait...
echo
pause 1
goto dial                       ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message

:REDIAL
set alarm 30
pause 30            ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing.
if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.}
echo Redialing...               ; Message for redialing.
pause 1

:DIAL
output ATD\%1\13                ; Dial the number.
set alarm 90            ; (For detecting keyboard interruptions.)
if > VERSION 312 clear input    ; Clear echo from INPUT buffer.
if < VERSION 313 clear
input 30 \10                    ; Wait for the linefeeds...

:GETMSG
input 60 \10            ; ...that surround the response message.
if success goto gotmsg        ; Got a message.
if alarm errfail {No response from modem.} ; No response in 90 seconds.
hangup                ; User interrupted from keyboard,
output \13            ; cancel dialing by sending carriage return,
goto again            ; and go try again right away.

:GOTMSG
reinput 1 CONNECT               ; Got a message, was it CONNECT?
if success goto done            ; If so, we're done.
reinput 1 BUSY            ; Line is busy.
if success goto busy        ; Go wait a while and then dial again.
reinput 1 ERROR            ; Command syntax error.
if success errfail {Dialing command error}
reinput 1 NO CARRIER        ; Phone didn't answer or no carrier.
if success errfail {No answer or no carrier}
reinput 1 NO ANSWER        ; No answer
if success errfail {No answer - try again later}
reinput 1 NO DIALTONE        ; No dialtone when phone taken off hook.
if success errfail {No dialtone - Is your modem connected to the phone
line\63}
goto getmsg            ; None of the above, get another message.

:BUSY
if < \v(count) 2 goto quit    ; Don't wait 30 seconds if tries are used up.
Echo Line is busy, will dial again in 30 seconds.
echo Press any key to cancel...
output \13            ; CR cancels dialing
hangup                          ; Hang up.
:AGAIN
if count goto redial            ; Then go redial.
:QUIT
errfail {It never answers!  I give up.} ; Too many tries.

:DONE                           ; Connected.
echo \7                         ; Celebrate with a beep.
define errfail            ; Erase local macro definitions...
end 0                ; Finished, return success code.

:FAIL                ; Dialing failed, no beep.
define errfail            ; Erase local macro definitions...
end 1                ; Return failure code.

; End of DATAPORT.SCR

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 13:10:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11661
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:13:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08078
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:13:14 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Oct 94 19:10:22 MDT
References: <37hm8c$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 43
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:669 comp.dcom.modems:67921
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37hm8c$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Braverman) writes:
> Greetings,
>
> I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal
> AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem.  I am surprised by this since the
> Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport
> specific dialing script.  I presume that if others have had
> difficulties with the script, the script would have been corrected by
> now.  However, I don't know if this is the case, and so I'm writing to
> see if others are having the same problem I have had (if not, it could
> just be that my modem is defective and I'd like to get some evidence to
> this effect so AT&T will replace the unit).
>
> Here are the details:  The modem responds and dials fine if I "connect"
> and issue AT commands by hand.  However when I attempt to dial a number
> via the 'dial' command along with the DATAPORT.SCR script that comes
> with Kermit (version 3.13), I get the following error message:
>
>     No DSR signal - check your modem and cable
>
> According to the script, this message is being generated because a
> "wait 0 DSR" command has failed immediately following a command that
> sets the port speed.  If I modify the script to pause for a longer
> period of time between setting the speed and requiring the DSR signal,
> then the script continues on successfully. However, it fails again when
> it reaches the following lines:
>
>     set flow rts/cts
>     output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13
>     chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback}
>
> If I insert a pause between the 'set flow...' command and the
> 'output...' command, then all is ok, but otherwise the modem doesn't
> accept the "AT..." command.  With these two pauses in place, everything
> else works fine.
    <rest omitted>
    Frank has a much fuller response. But I'll make a guess that the
modem is of the kind with is unusually slow to respond after making
certain changes. The RTS/CTS problem looks that way, and so does the DSR
item. We've heard of cases where a command string, say ATDT blah, needs
to go out very slowly (down to four characters per second) or characters
are dropped. For this purpose we added command SET OUTPUT PACING <millisec>.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 17:15:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11727
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:15:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08368
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:15:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
Date: 12 Oct 94 22:15:02 EST
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <372cbb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

The discussion on "ring-bound" manuals reminded me of a tour I
once took of a publishing house.  They showed us a video on the
book production process.  Pages are pasted up in groups of 8
per side, and printed on roll fed offset presses.  Folding and
trimming follows, resulting in "signatures" of 16 pages.  These
are glued with the other signatures of the book to a binding.

I asked about ring/loose leaf.  What they do is take the glued
signatures comprising the book, punch the ring binder holes,
then cut off the glued binging.  It is these extra operations
which make mass produced ring binding more expensive.

Hope this helps.

Gerry Belanger


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 15:00:48 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13852
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 23:14:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12198
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 23:14:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Oct 94 21:00:48 MDT
References: <37hm8c$[e-mail]> <37hqf9$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37hqf9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
> I think the world must have changed in the last year or two, because DSR
> used to mean "I'm turned on and you can use me".  Evidently this is no
> longer the default on some modems.  Solution: just remove these WAIT 0
> statements from the script.

VMS has always thought that DSR means "I've picked up the phone; get ready
for carrier". If the modem asserts DSR and doesn't assert CD within about
30 seconds or so, VMS assumes that it got a voice call and deasserts DTR
to tell the modem to hang up the phone.

Needless to say, this causes lots of extra traffic in comp.os.vms as
folks with PC modems try to get them running with VMS...
--
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Roger Ivie      | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as
[e-mail] |     'obsolete-ready'

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 05:01:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19423
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:01:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19468
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:01:04 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux2.cso.uiuc.edu!shair
From: [e-mail] (Bob Shair)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: script for redialing
Date: 13 Oct 1994 05:01:02 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <37ieue$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ux2.cso.uiuc.edu
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] writes:

>I am a new user of PC-Kermit ver 3.11.  I want to know if anybody has a script
>file that will make the modem redial?
>
Not exactly a script file.  How about a one word command?

define go dial 18005551212, while failure {dial 18005551212}, echo \7Made it!\7, connect

Then I can just say
go

and the computer rings the bell when the connection is made.

Actually, with my modem the second command is
while failure {dial L},
because ATDL dials the last number.  Don't know if that's universal, though.

I'm using C Kermit.  I presume the command language for PC Kermit is similar.
--

Bob Shair                          [e-mail]
Open Systems Specialist           SHAIR@UIUCVMD (bitnet)
Champaign, Illinois           217/356-2684

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 05:35:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20847
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:43:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21512
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:43:47 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!larry.infi.net!fastcart
From: [e-mail] (Arcell B. Frazier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 13 Oct 1994 05:35:00 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <37igu4$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <37f525$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: larry.infi.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <37f525$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Fozziliny Moo) writes:
: > [e-mail] writes:
: >
: >
: >
: >>How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
: >>I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with
: >>errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP.
: >>Any ideas?

As well as what was said before, if you use C-kermit, the command:

set host <host address>

will work.  I've done it a few time last week.  For instance:

set host compuserve.com

Works.  Then, to connect just:

c

and it connects you to CompuServe.
--
Fast Cart

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 05:24:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21985
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 02:10:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22529
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 02:10:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU!cdl0
From: [e-mail] (CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MacKermit Command files...
Date: 13 Oct 1994 05:24:57 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <37igb9$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs1.cc.lehigh.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

How do you make Command files? under the File menu, there's an option to Take
Command File. when i first got an ancient version of MacKermit, it came with
a script to automatically dial up the terminal server here on campus and one
to disconnect. these were supposed to be loaded using this option and seemed
to work fine, even after i changed them to just dial numbers i wanted.
however, now they don't work anymore, not even the original versions! i'm not
sure if it's because i upgraded to a newer version of MacKermit (0.991(190)),
or because i just got system 7, but i now get "application 'unknown' has
unexpectedly quit due to error number 28" or somesuch... so, is there a way of
making a working command file? and a related question - can i load the
terminal settings at the same time as the commnad file? either by including
an instruction in the script to load the terminal settings or somehow
combining the two files?

Thanx,
-Smoke.

-- bye!  :) -- pgp2 key available - just ask. or finger [e-mail]

1) There was a young girl from Peru     2) There was a young man from Verdun
   Whose limericks stopped at line two
        -- Martin Gardner "Aha, Gotcha!"

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 08:01:01 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26781
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:19:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26565
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:19:07 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit?
Date: 13 Oct 1994 08:01:01 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 42
Message-Id: <37ipft$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <377fcp$[e-mail]> <37ae26$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:

>In article <37ae26$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>
>> In a previous article, [e-mail] (Yee Chang Lee) says:
>>
>>>I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot.  I also use
>>>Telix.  Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit.
>>>
>>>What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit?  Kermit _is_ writing to
>>>hardware, not BIOS.
>>>
>>>Any other ideas?
>>
>> Try:
>>
>> SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048
>>
>> before starting Kermit.
>>
>> If this increases your screen updates put it in a batch file with your
>> Kermit invocation.
>-------------
>    Huh? INPUT is a script command; the one above enlarges the buffer
>used by the INPUT command. Terminal emulation (Connect mode) is not related
>to script commands; it has no association with the INPUT buffer.
>    But thanks for assisting.
>        Joe D.
>

I should have added more to that reply. I find most people are using
Package Script menu programs like EasyKermit and are not cognicent of
exactly what mode they are in when the screen updates "seem" slow.
That's why I said try it and see.

I will admit that I have had some confusion as to whether this
effects connect mode when you connect from a script.

I believe your answer clears this up for me.

Thank you, Joe and I apologize for my brevity and lack of illumination.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 12 09:01:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01291
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:53:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04174
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:53:25 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!nott-cs!lut.ac.uk!ccobs
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K
Sender: [e-mail] (Bertil Schou)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:01:54 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Bertil Schou)
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>  My recent assertion that Kermit takes its name from the Muppet
>has been challenged.
>
>  Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no
>explanation of the acronym was given.
>
>  Can we get an official answer from Frank da Cruz?
>
>  Thank you.
>
>[e-mail]


Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer
Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3:

"3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when
we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming
sort of character." ...


From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 12:43:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06981
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:35:36 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10478
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:35:35 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newstand.syr.edu!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!mcia
From: [e-mail] (Mike Ciaraldi)
Subject: REPOST: Kermit over WinSock?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: WinSock TCP SLIP NetManage Chameleon
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 12:43:24 GMT
Lines: 28
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[ My apologies if anyone sees this twice. Problems with the news
software here seem to have prevented it from going out]

I am using NetManage Chameleon to set up a SLIP link
from my PC to a Unix machine. It works fine with the included
telnet program, but I was wondering if I could run Kermit
over this TCP connection.

From reading the manual,
I know that MS-DOS Kermit can run through a variety
of connections beyond straight serial through a UART,
things like NetBIOS, EBIOS, etc. But as far as I can tell
from the Chameleon documentation, the only interface it supports
is WinSock, which is not listed as supported by Kermit.

Does anyone have any ideas or experience on this?
Is WinSock support coming in version 3.14?

Thanks.

--Mike Ciaraldi

P.S. I like the new Kermit icon. But what is that
grey rectangle in the lower right, next to his collar?
Is that the horizon line?




From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 14:27:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11659
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:40:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27353
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:40:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: The MSKermit Book
Date: 13 Oct 1994 14:27:13 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <37jg41$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Could the people who have found establishments carrying the Kermit
book please post the names of those stores (Book, Computer or other)
where they found it?

Would a college or university book store be more likely to have it?

Does Digital Press plan on perusing this newsgroup or could someone
who knows someone suggest that it might not be a bad marketing move
to at least lurk around here from time to time?

In case it isn't obvious, I have a looooooooooong list of establishments
where the book isn't.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 12:22:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11931
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:45:02 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27638
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:44:58 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!charon.citicorp.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
References: <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:22:34 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 27
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>The discussion on "ring-bound" manuals reminded me of a tour I
>once took of a publishing house.  They showed us a video on the
>book production process.  Pages are pasted up in groups of 8
>per side, and printed on roll fed offset presses.  Folding and
>trimming follows, resulting in "signatures" of 16 pages.  These
>are glued with the other signatures of the book to a binding.
>
>I asked about ring/loose leaf.  What they do is take the glued
>signatures comprising the book, punch the ring binder holes,
>then cut off the glued binging.  It is these extra operations
>which make mass produced ring binding more expensive.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Gerry Belanger
>


*Wow*!  Thanks Gerry :-)  I had always thought ring binding would be
about the same - I had no idea that they glue-bound the books ANYWAY, and
*then* chopped the ends off...

Pretty neat if you ask me! ;-)

Ken, feeling more knowledgeable today than yesterday... :)
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 14:46:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12535
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:55:19 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28337
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:55:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Hangup and Z100 MSKermit 3.13
Date: 13 Oct 1994 14:46:39 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <37jh8f$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


MSKermit 3.13 has this weird artifact where if you use the hangup
command in a script or from the MSKERMIT prompt it doesn't reset
DTR correctly. However from Connect mode's ^] menu "H" performs
hangup correctly.

I have gotten arround this in scripts by defining my own hangup
macro that uses the Hayes AT command "+++" to hangup.

I wanted to pass this work-around to any other Z100 MSKermit 3.13
users.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 07:25:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25563
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:34:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11507
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:34:04 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: The MSKermit Book
Date: 13 Oct 94 12:25:22 EST
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <37jg41$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37jg41$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>
> Could the people who have found establishments carrying the Kermit
> book please post the names of those stores (Book, Computer or other)
> where they found it?
>
> Would a college or university book store be more likely to have it?
That's how I got my copies.  The Kermit books also carry
Prentice-Hall ISBN numbers, and can be ordered by any bookstore.
Using MS-DOS Kermit, 2nd ed, 0-13-952276-X.
Using C-Kermit, 0-13-037490-3.

Obvoiusly, buying direct from Columbia helps support the Kermit effort
a little more.

Gerry Belanger


From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 04:28:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25966
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:41:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12087
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:41:40 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: REPOST: Kermit over WinSock?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Oct 94 10:28:28 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 36
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mike Ciaraldi) writes:
> [ My apologies if anyone sees this twice. Problems with the news
> software here seem to have prevented it from going out]
>
> I am using NetManage Chameleon to set up a SLIP link
> from my PC to a Unix machine. It works fine with the included
> telnet program, but I was wondering if I could run Kermit
> over this TCP connection.
>
> From reading the manual,
> I know that MS-DOS Kermit can run through a variety
> of connections beyond straight serial through a UART,
> things like NetBIOS, EBIOS, etc. But as far as I can tell
> from the Chameleon documentation, the only interface it supports
> is WinSock, which is not listed as supported by Kermit.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas or experience on this?
> Is WinSock support coming in version 3.14?
------------
    I think we need to explain winsock et al again. Winsock is a pure
Windows support program (a spec, vendors make their own programs obeying
the winsock spec), it cannot run at DOS level, and by itself it does nothing.
Only pure Windows applications can talk to this Windows winsock support
program. Beneath the winsock api level is someone's Windows TCP/IP protocol
stack and whatever they choose to do about attaching to a lan adapter board.
Above the winsock api level are many applications which are dependent on
the winsock TCP/IP stack to communicate anywhere at all. Again, this is 100%
Windows-only stuff (not to mention 16-bit vs 32-bit Windows-only differences).
    Kermit is a smart DOS program with Windows awareness, but it is not
a pure Windows program. It's not a TCP/IP stack which can be taken out and
used for other purposes. It is a complete program (TCP/IP stack, Kermit
protocol stack, applications, you name it) all in itself. Thus it is not
associated with winsock.
    If your work requires a winsock compatible TCP/IP stack then please
look around at the many commerical offerings.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 18:10:42 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28033
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:10:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14581
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:10:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: The MSKermit Book
Date: 13 Oct 1994 18:10:42 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 57
Message-Id: <37jt72$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
> In article <37jg41$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Michael DeCosta III) writes:
> >
> > Could the people who have found establishments carrying the Kermit
> > book please post the names of those stores (Book, Computer or other)
> > where they found it?
> >
> > Would a college or university book store be more likely to have it?
> That's how I got my copies.  The Kermit books also carry
> Prentice-Hall ISBN numbers, and can be ordered by any bookstore.
> Using MS-DOS Kermit, 2nd ed, 0-13-952276-X.
> Using C-Kermit, 0-13-037490-3.
>
> Obvoiusly, buying direct from Columbia helps support the Kermit effort
> a little more.
>
Yes, Kermit books can be ordered direct from Columbia (see below).

The confusion with the bookstores came about because the original Digital
Press, which was part of Digital Equipment Corporation, was divested by
Digital and bought out by Butterworth-Heinemann, which in turn is a "member
of the Reed Elsevier Group".  Unfortunately, most bookstores do not know
about this yet.  When they run out of Kermit books and go back to Prentice
Hall (distributor for the original Digital Press, but not for Butterworths)
(confusing?) to redorder, they are told that the book is "out of print"
and are not referred to Butterworths.  We have been trying to get this
situation rectified, but I have no concrete proof that matters have improved.

Bookstores should contact Butterworth Heinemann / Digital Press, 225 Wildwood
Street, Woburn, MA  01801, USA, phone [phone].  Individuals can
also order by calling this toll-free number.

The Prentice Hall ISBN numbers are no longer valid.  The valid ISBNs are:

  "Using MS-DOS Kermit"                1-55558-082-3
  "Using C-Kermit"                     1-55558-108-0
  "Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol"   0-932376-88-6

Similarly, DEC order number (EY-xxxx-DP) are no longer valid and the books
can no longer be ordered from DECdirect.

Butterworth Heinemann overseas phone numbers are:

  [phone] (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada)
  [phone]   (Rushden, England office for Europe)
  [phone]  (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand)
  [phone]    (Singapore office for Asia)

You can order direct from Columbia by calling [phone] or by
sending in an order form.  Send e-mail to [e-mail] for
further information.

Thanks!

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 05:32:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02886
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:00:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18843
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:00:10 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Hangup and Z100 MSKermit 3.13
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Oct 94 11:32:23 MDT
References: <37jh8f$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37jh8f$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>
> MSKermit 3.13 has this weird artifact where if you use the hangup
> command in a script or from the MSKERMIT prompt it doesn't reset
> DTR correctly. However from Connect mode's ^] menu "H" performs
> hangup correctly.
>
> I have gotten arround this in scripts by defining my own hangup
> macro that uses the Hayes AT command "+++" to hangup.
>
> I wanted to pass this work-around to any other Z100 MSKermit 3.13
> users.
----------
    Which comms ports, what kind of modem, what does "correctly"
mean in this case?
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 21:04:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10974
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:04:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00493
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:04:47 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta Ready
Date: 13 Oct 1994 21:04:43 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 4
Message-Id: <37k7db$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

See announcement in comp.protocols.kermit and/or
comp.protocols.kermit.announce.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 17:49:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13944
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:49:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04887
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:49:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!RWR-PHYSIOL.MED.UPENN.EDU!RATZLAFF
From: [e-mail] (Ron Ratzlaff)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Problem: VT100 "print through"
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:16:29
Organization: Dep't Physiol., University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: rwr-physiol.med.upenn.edu
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX.  I have
Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions.  The problem
is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to
make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters
are missing from the resulting print out.  There appears to be
something wrong in the handshake somewhere.  It is especially noticeable when
I'm trying to make a plot.

Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters?

Any help appreciated.  I'm using Kermit ver 3.13 for MS-DOS.

Thanks.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 22:10:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15249
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:10:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06883
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:10:09 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through"
Date: 13 Oct 1994 22:10:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 37
Message-Id: <37kb7t$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Ron Ratzlaff) writes:
> I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX.  I have
> Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions.  The problem
> is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to
> make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters
> are missing from the resulting print out.  There appears to be
> something wrong in the handshake somewhere.  It is especially noticeable
> when I'm trying to make a plot.
>
What kind of printer is it?  Is it a serial or parallel printer?  Is it
a graphics printer?

Parallel printers should not lose characters.  It is possible, however,
that Kermit itself is losing incoming characters if an effective means
of flow control (RTS/CTS or Xon/Xoff) is not enabled.  The latter is
much better, but you still have to worry about what happens on the VMS
system, which does not support Xon/Xoff.  What is the remote modem
connected to?  A VAX port?  A LAT box?  Some other kind of terminal
server?

Since you say you are making plots, maybe you have some kind of graphics
printer driver installed?

As you can see, there are many variables here.  But in general the key is
to have the most effective possible means of flow control enabled at EVERY
POINT along the communication path: the remote mode, the port/device/driver
the remote modem is connected to; the local modem, the PC's serial port,
the printer port, the printer itself, and even the connection between the
two modems (this happens automatically if it is an error-corrected
connection).  And VMS itself (SET TERMINAL /HOSTSYNC /TTSYNC).

As you can also see, most of these items are outside of Kermit's control.

Who said data communication was easy?

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 22:18:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15867
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:18:58 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07740
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:18:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through"
Date: 13 Oct 1994 22:18:49 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <37kbo9$[e-mail]>
References: <37kb7t$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37kb7t$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Frank da Cruz) writes:
> Parallel printers should not lose characters.  It is possible, however,
> that Kermit itself is losing incoming characters if an effective means
> of flow control (RTS/CTS or Xon/Xoff) is not enabled.  The latter is
                                                             ^^^^^^
Oops, I meant:                                               former

> much better, but you still have to worry about what happens on the VMS
> system, which does not support Xon/Xoff.  What is the remote modem
                                 ^^^^^^^^
Oops, I meant:                   RTS/CTS

Too much coffee...

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 18:42:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20498
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:32:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13492
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:32:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts
Date: 13 Oct 1994 18:42:13 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 70
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37jv25$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Michael Braverman's question about the AT&T Dataport dialing script
has prompted me to offer the following observations on the current
batch of MS-Kermit dialing scripts.  Currently I patch all the scripts
to suit my own preferences so partly this note is in hopes that Columbia
will see things my way and incorporate some of these suggestions into
their standard distribution.  :-)  There's also a question or two buried
in the following that I'd like answered.  And lastly, I hope others
working with these scripts may find a useful idea or two.  Sorry the post
is so long.

1. I've found that HAYES.SCR dies with some modems because the code at
   GOTMSG executes before the full CONNECT message is back.  For example,
   with a GVC 9600, the modem only has time to deliver CONNE before the
   dialing script compares the response to CONNECT.  The comparison fails,
   and the script stops with "No dialtone or no answer.  Try again later."
   I first solved this by adding a PAUSE 2 before the comparison.  Yesterday,
   a student told me he solved it by changing "reinput 0 connect" to
   "reinput 2 connect".  Page 219 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit" says the timeout
   interval on the reinput command is ignored.  Line 1434 of KERMIT.BWR says
   "If the REINPUT command fails to find the requested text in the INPUT
   command buffer, it will wait (up to the timeout interval) for more
   characters to arrive from the communication channel."  Ok, so, after
   waiting for the timeout, does REINPUT make the comparison again?  Or
   perhaps REINPUT recognizes that the initial substring is a match and
   so is willing to wait for more characters?  If so, I can adopt my
   student friend's solution which  is more elegant than pausing in every case.
   If not, then why does changing the timeout interval to 2 work?  In any
   case, I suggest the standard HAYES.SCR should be changed to account
   for these slow modems.

2. I find the noise level of the scripts irritating.  (In my opinion) they
   should not automatically set input echo on.  Similarly, the scripts that
   echo messages like, "Enabling hardware flow control", etc., are giving
   feedback that is not useful to the average user.  True, this may be a
   matter of taste.  My preference is for all this feedback to be controlled
   by a noiselevel setting that is 0 (silent) by default.  Increasing the
   noiselevel variable increases the feedback.

3. The number of redials and the pause between redials should be controlled
   by variables rather than hardcoded into the dialing scripts.

4. The dialing scripts should not automatically set parity to none since
   that overrides the parity setting in the dialing directory.

5. Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE
   speed as high as the modem will allow.  I may be on shaky ground here
   but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems.  And
   for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing
   directory be respected.

6. I wonder if HAYES.SCR might be patched to automatically "set output pacing"
   if the initial contact fails.  Again, those with more experience may
   convince me this is a bad idea.  (I'm looking for guidance here.)
   But the HAYES.SCR initialization string is fairly innocuous and maybe
   just automatically retrying with output pacing at 200 would catch the
   occasional dumb modem that seems to need this help.  Anyhow, unless
   someone has a strong argument against this tactic I plan to implement
   this strategy at Queen's.

In summary, I'm hoping that over time, a set of dialing scripts will emerge
that work for all PC/modem combinations here at Queen's.  (Probably a
vain hope.)  I hope that some of the above suggestions will be useful to
others and I welcome comments from Columbia and anyone else on these ideas.


--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 04:05:18 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04526
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:38:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05045
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:38:20 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson
From: [e-mail] (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Date: 14 Oct 1994 04:05:18 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software
Lines: 34
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36lpdt$[e-mail]> <36ml93$[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:17:47 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alan J Holmes) writes:
   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russell Nelson) writes:
   >In article <36ml93$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

   >   If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to
   >   spend one red cent.  If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you
   >   advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us
   >   money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw.  That would
   >   include the universities, government agencies, research institute,
   >   hospitals, convents, and orphanages.

   >   Why don't we give it rest, eh?  Thanks.

   >Because the Kermit copyright is limiting (intentionally or not) the
   >distribution of Kermit.  If you want universities, government
   >agencies, research institutes, hospitals, convents, and orphanages to
   >be able to use Kermit, you have to make sure that they can get it.

   Perhaps I have missed something, I was under the impression that
   distribution was already free to this list and indeed anyone who
   has access to the email system.

There is no such thing as no-cost software.  Every method of
distribution has a cost.  The Kermit copyright reserves the right to
distribute on physical media at any non-zero price.  They do not
distribute on CD-ROM.  So, the only way to get kermit on physical
media, if you don't already know someone with the version you want, is
to buy it on floppies from Columbia.

--
-russ <[e-mail]>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | [phone] (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 05:21:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06917
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:21:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07103
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:21:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Got the 3.14 beta, a question
Date: 14 Oct 1994 05:21:03 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 10
Message-Id: <37l4fv$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Well, I got the 3.14 beta and like what I see.  No problems found yet, but
one puzzling thing . . . if I jump into my editor, QEdit, by typing 'edit'
at the command line, the modem hangs up.  3.13 didn't do this.  What am I
doing wrong here?


---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 05:14:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08165
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:52:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08220
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:52:03 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Hangup and Z100 MSKermit 3.13
Date: 14 Oct 1994 05:14:40 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <37l440$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <37jh8f$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:

>In article <37jh8f$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>
>> MSKermit 3.13 has this weird artifact where if you use the hangup
>> command in a script or from the MSKERMIT prompt it doesn't reset
>> DTR correctly. However from Connect mode's ^] menu "H" performs
>> hangup correctly.
>>
>> I have gotten arround this in scripts by defining my own hangup
>> macro that uses the Hayes AT command "+++" to hangup.
>>
>> I wanted to pass this work-around to any other Z100 MSKermit 3.13
>> users.
>----------
>    Which comms ports, what kind of modem, what does "correctly"
>mean in this case?
>    Joe D.
>

I have had this problem with all brands of modems.
The problem is that hangup drops the DTR line to hang up but
only in Connect mode does it bring the line back up.
In Command and Script mode once hangup drops DTR is stays down.
I am using Communications port 1.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 05:19:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10732
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 03:09:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10798
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 03:09:56 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!agora!agora.rdrop.com!tedm
From: [e-mail] (Ted Mittelstaedt)
Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out???
Distribution: na
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: agora.rdrop.com
Organization: RainDrop Laboratories
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 05:19:52 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17151 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4036 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:694
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
David Scholten <[e-mail]> wrote:
>This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this.  But I
>am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial
>out from my BSDI 1.1 based box.  The problems are similar in nature:
>

If you figure out how to make UUCP and cu/kermit/etc share the same port
please tell me!  :-)

Hey, I am looking for a sendmail.cf that works with UUCP, I installed
FreeBSD 1.1 from the CDROM and the default sendmail.cf only seems to know
how to send SMTP mail, at least I don't see the uux transport program
listed anywhere.  Right now I'm trying to hack it together with the O'Rilley
book on Sendmail, and a couple of examples from a Sun box, and I really don't
want to spend a week or two rewriting sendmail,cf if someone has already
done it.

Thanks,
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 09:16:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14968
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 05:16:14 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14764
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 05:16:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!htnguyen
From: [e-mail] (One from the West)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH
Date: 14 Oct 1994 09:16:06 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <37li8m$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: grover.cecs.csulb.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


    I have download the beta version of kermit from columbia.edu.  Now
everytime I escape to DOS the modem hang up.  Seem like it drop DTR when
you go to DOS for some reason.  3.13 doesn't do this.  Can anyone
enlighten me on this problem ? :) Thank you very much.

--
                       Huy Nguyen ([e-mail])
                Network Administrator
                Career Development Center
                Califonia State Univeristy Long Beach


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 10:48:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02857
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 06:50:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18069
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 06:50:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5)
Date: 14 Oct 1994 10:48:03 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 40
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 12 Oct 94 09:32:20 MDT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols
>> the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This,
>> I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in
>> later versions?
>------------
>    Depends upon whom pranks are played. Answerback is a nice way of
>being sucked into someone else's prank when the answerback string is not
>quite what you wanted. We try to avoid this spontaneous suprize by canning
>the response and letting the user turn it on or off.

What? If you supect someone unautorized may maliciously edit your
MSCUSTOM.INI then surely having them change the answerback is the last
of your worries.

> The most common use
>of answerback was stashing passwords, and that is generally regarded as
>not a wise thing to do.

The most common use of answer back _I've_ encontered is getting the
physical location of the terminal on a LAN with terminal servers hat
do not easily give this information. The terminal location in this
context is *not* used for purposes of security but rather allows some
preferences to be configured per location rather than per
user. Notably these include default hardcopy output device, printer
type and stationary stock attached to the slave printer port, default
opening menu.

At present we work round this problem by detecting the "MS-DOS KERMIT"
response and sending a secondary enquiry using the APC facility to
execute a macro which returns the desired answer back string. This is
messy but it works. It also means that we have to enable the APC facility.
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 13 23:07:37 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17059
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:55:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20761
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:55:26 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr
From: [e-mail] (Dick Wisan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Oct 94 18:07:37 -0500
References: <370rss$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE
Lines: 39
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken) writes:
> In article <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner>, [e-mail] wrote:
>> In article <[e-mail]> Ken Udut
>> <[e-mail]> writes:
>>
>> > Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and
>> > print a nice binder?
>>
>> Docs in a binder would be fine with me.  Unfortunately this doesn't
>> seem to be the trend these days, even though there's a major difference
>> in convenience of use..  Even just the pages (and I supply the binder)
>> would suffice if cost or store shelf space are otherwise problems.
>>
>> Billy Y..
>>
>
> It's a pity too, since it's cheaper to print looseleaf pages
> (either print on regular paper, or pre-punched 3 hole pages), and
> handier).
           [snip]
>
> I have a Turbo Pascal 6 book that I used religiously to learn how
> to program Pascal.  But as thick as it is, it is bound with paper
> and glue binding.  Phooey - try staying open to the book on the first
> or last 50 pages - nearly impossible without a large paperweight
> holding it down, while typing!

Hmm, those recent Borland manuals are a new kind of glue-back that's
much better than the older ones.  They're less controllable than ring
bindings but they lie a lot flatter then the ordinary kind.  For years,
I've cut the backs off manuals and punched them either for ring binders
or for plastic comb-backs.  Had to do that with the Kermit manual, but
I found Turbo Pascal 6 and 7 usable as is.  At least, propped up between
the keyboard & monitor, they stay open where I put them.

--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan  - Email: internet [e-mail]
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 11:16:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17879
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:21:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22183
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:21:56 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!ruu.nl!survis.surfnet.nl!Xander.Jansen
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH
In-Reply-To: <37li8m$[e-mail]>
X-Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Phone: [phone]
Sender: [e-mail]
Address: "Cluetinckborch, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL"
Telefax: [phone]
Organization: SURFnet bv
References: <37li8m$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 11:16:31 GMT
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

On 14 Oct 1994, One from the West wrote:

>     I have download the beta version of kermit from columbia.edu.  Now
> everytime I escape to DOS the modem hang up.  Seem like it drop DTR when
> you go to DOS for some reason.  3.13 doesn't do this.  Can anyone
> enlighten me on this problem ? :) Thank you very much.

Same here, with most commands (except CD and CWD). For example SHOW COMM
hangs up the modem. I noticed that the auto-hangup happens only with high
speeds, using a 2400bps modem all is fine (but slow of course ;-) Using
2400bps speed with a 14k4 modem also works but using higher speeds with
the 14k4 modem not.

Perhaps it has something to do with speed buffering and old UARTS ?

Xander

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 13:42:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23100
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:28 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27693
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:26 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Relgious war: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5)
Date: 14 Oct 1994 13:42:09 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 44
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
    <37goa6$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 12 Oct 1994 13:28:37 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37goa6$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] writes:
>> In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols
>> the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This,
>> I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in
>> later versions?
>>
>No, it's not a joke.  Without overstating the obvious, answerback messages
>pose a certain security risk.

This has the makings of a Relgious war :-(

Answerback messages per-se do not pose a security risk.

Remotely configurable answerback strings do and I'm not proposing this.

Programming your password into the answerback string is (without
overstating the obvious either) stupid - anyone who does that deserves
everything they get.

[The following is also posted to another branch of this thread - sorry]

The most common use of answer back _I've_ encontered is getting the
physical location of the terminal on a LAN with terminal servers hat
do not easily give this information. The terminal location in this
context is *not* used for purposes of security but rather allows some
preferences to be configured per location rather than per
user. Notably these include default hardcopy output device, printer
type and stationary stock attached to the slave printer port, default
opening menu.

At present we work round this problem by detecting the "MS-DOS KERMIT"
response and sending a secondary enquiry using the APC facility to
execute a macro which returns the desired answer back string. This is
messy but it works. It also means that we are forced to enable the APC
facility (now _that_ *is* a security hole).
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 13:46:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23105
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27699
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through"
Date: 14 Oct 1994 13:46:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:16:29
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Ratzlaff) writes:

>I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX.  I have
>Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions.  The problem
>is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to
>make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters
>are missing from the resulting print out.  There appears to be
>something wrong in the handshake somewhere.  It is especially noticeable when
>I'm trying to make a plot.
>
>Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters?

Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and
print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w
problem not a handshake problem.
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 14:42:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26645
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:42:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01918
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:42:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!aloha.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH
Date: 14 Oct 1994 14:42:02 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <37m5bq$[e-mail]>
References: <37li8m$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: aloha.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
 <[e-mail]> wrote:
|Same here, with most commands (except CD and CWD). For example SHOW COMM
|hangs up the modem. I noticed that the auto-hangup happens only with high
|speeds, using a 2400bps modem all is fine (but slow of course ;-) Using
|2400bps speed with a 14k4 modem also works but using higher speeds with
|the 14k4 modem not.

Same problem here as well.  I'm running 3.14 on a Tandy XT clone with an
Intel external 14.4k modem.
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 14:36:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26823
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:45:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02121
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:45:35 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zippy.dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 15:36:10 +0100
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Abertay Dundee (DIT)
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>>  Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no
>>explanation of the acronym was given.

> Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer
> Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3:
>
> "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when
> we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming
> sort of character." ...

Now when I first came across Kermit in the early 1980s the docs
claimed it stood for something like "KL10 Error-free Reciprocal
Microcomputer Interface Terminal"

That may have been contrived to try and prevent them being
sued of course :-)

--
Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]
University of Abertay Dundee       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]                 Int [phone]
           -- Pavlov's dog: the runt of the litter? --

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 14:39:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28452
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 11:07:50 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03876
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 11:07:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.csc.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Teemu Mottonen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit 3.13, Windows, "Unknown hardware for port", 8250/16550 UART
Date: 14 Oct 1994 16:39:36 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 27
Message-Id: <37m578$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: plootu.helsinki.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi all,

I have a problem with running MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows 3.1. I'm
developing a program with Borland Pascal for Windows that uses Kermit
to call a central computer, transfer files etc. The com port settings
seem correct ('SET COM1 \x3F8 IRQ 4'), because Kermit works ok in DOS
and when executed directly from the Program Manager.

The problem is that after running Kermit once (to dial central computer)
on the second invokation, after 'SET PORT COM1' I get "?Warning: unknown
hardware for port. Using Bios as BIOS1". After this communication fails.

It seems that somehow Kermit is unable to verify the UART. I don't know
what causes this: Windows, Kermit or my program. So, is it possible to
disable the UART check (chkport routine in the assembler source code) by
patching KERMIT.EXE ? Or maybe there's some combination of PIF & .INI
settings that I'm missing ? Or perhaps I should somehow reset the UART
after running the first script ?

The modem is an external V.32 modem (8250 UART, but I use it at 2400 bps).
I've also tried this with an internal modem (V.32 & 16550), but same results.
The PC is a 486DX-33.

Thanks in advance,
Teemu Mottonen.
--
Teemu Mottonen - Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 16:41:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06656
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:41:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23607
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:41:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.announce
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta News and Update
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: 14 Oct 1994 16:41:02 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 41
Approved: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <37mcau$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:704 comp.protocols.kermit.announce:3
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Thanks to everyone for the quick reports concerning MS-DOS Kermit 3.14
Beta-2 dropping DTR (hanging up) when given a PUSH, RUN, etc, command.
This problem is now fixed, and a new mstibm.zip file was installed in the
kermit/test/bin directory on kermit.columbia.edu as of about 12:20pm
Eastern (USA) time, Friday, October 14, 1994.  This one identifies itself
as Beta-3, 14 Oct 94.

It is also available in text format as mstibm.boo and mstibm.uue in the
kermit/test/text directory, and these two have also been installed in
KERMSRV on CUVMA for BITNET/EARN/CREN access.

As mentioned in the original announcement, the ZIP file contains
subdirectories, and so in order to unzip it and preserve the directory
structure, which is ESSENTIAL to correction operation, you might have to
give your unzipping program a special switch to enable directory creation,
for example:

  pkunzip -d mstibm.zip

Otherwise you'll get lots of warnings about READ.ME files overwriting
each other, and you won't get the needed directory structure.

Yesterday's ZIP file contains a "draft" dialing script for the Intel High
Speed FaxModem, INTEL14.SCR.  This is completely untested; if you have one
of these modems, I'd appreciate it if you would test the new script and
let me know the results.  I'd also like to know if it works on other Intel
models, such as the Intel SatisFaxion.

Today's ZIP file adds another untested draft dialing script, FASTALK2.SCR,
for the Motorola FasTalkII.  Test results needed.

If any Israelis or Russians (or other people who use the Hebrew or Cyrillic
alphabets) are reading this newsgroup, I'd like reactions to the new Hebrew
and Cyrillic support.

If any Japanese people are reading and have been able to test the Kanji
terminal emulation in DOS/V, reports would be appreciated.  However, it
is presently a restriction that the Kanji terminal emulation does not work
with Nikkei Telecom database services.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 03:43:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06985
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:45:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24045
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:45:49 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 09:43:27 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    Thanks for the messages on DTR dropping when going to DOS.
Indeed, it did. It's fixed in "beta-3 14 Oct 1994" appearing on
kermit.columbia.edu today.
    For the technically curious, the problem was turning on UART
loopback while testing for 16550A-ness and vicinity, in the hope of
shutting off babble from the outside during the examination. I added
this last week but did not check for the side effect that the handshake
lines might all drop too. So I don't turn on loopback anymore after this
morning and thus DTR stays high/asserted/true/"1".
    If I could ask a favor of people submitting bug reports, it is
that you also send a copy directly to me, [e-mail]. NEWS takes
about a day to make its way out here in Utah but mail is much quicker.
------
    Answerback folks. Here's my answer back on that. The host asks
for the contents of the string without the user being aware of it. That
is a security hole.
    We hear your comments, but I'd appreciate some separation of emotion
from real need (or want it if it were available) so we can better estimate the
situation. Just mark sections as *need*, *greed*, and *flame* and I'll get
the idea sooner or later.
    Thanks for the feedback and keep those reports coming,
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:58:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12432
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:58:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00146
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:58:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts
Date: 14 Oct 1994 17:58:10 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 113
Message-Id: <37mgri$[e-mail]>
References: <37jv25$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37jv25$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
writes:
> I've found that HAYES.SCR dies with some modems because the code at
> GOTMSG executes before the full CONNECT message is back.  For example,
> with a GVC 9600, the modem only has time to deliver CONNE before the
> dialing script compares the response to CONNECT.  The comparison fails,
> and the script stops with "No dialtone or no answer.  Try again later."
>
After the dialing command (ATD...) is given, the script waits for a
linefeed (presumably the one that terminates the echo from the ATD...
command) and then another linefeed.  Whatever is in between should be
the modem's response.  I don't understand how, after receiving the
linefeed that comes *after* the CONNECT message, characters could be
missing from the end of "CONNECT".  Nevertheless...

> I first solved this by adding a PAUSE 2 before the comparison.
> Yesterday, a student told me he solved it by changing "reinput 0
> connect" to "reinput 2 connect".  Page 219 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit" says
> the timeout interval on the reinput command is ignored.  Line 1434 of
> KERMIT.BWR says "If the REINPUT command fails to find the requested text
> in the INPUT command buffer, it will wait (up to the timeout interval)
> for more characters to arrive from the communication channel."
>
The .BWR file is right.

> Ok, so, after waiting for the timeout, does REINPUT make the comparison
> again?  Or perhaps REINPUT recognizes that the initial substring is a
> match and so is willing to wait for more characters?  If so, I can adopt
> my student friend's solution which is more elegant than pausing in every
> case.
>
It should be perfectly safe to change REINPUT 0 to REINPUT 2 in this case,
and it will probably have the desired effect.  Since you have access to a
modem that appears to need this, maybe you could try this and report the
results back to me.  I'd also like to see a session log of a manual
dialing session -- maybe your modem outputs more linefeeds than regular
Hayes modems.

> I find the noise level of the scripts irritating.  (In my opinion) they
> should not automatically set input echo on.  Similarly, the scripts that
> echo messages like, "Enabling hardware flow control", etc., are giving
> feedback that is not useful to the average user.  True, this may be a
> matter of taste.  My preference is for all this feedback to be
> controlled by a noiselevel setting that is 0 (silent) by default.
> Increasing the noiselevel variable increases the feedback.
>
A valid point, to be sure, but one that can't be addressed in the 3.14
cycle.  It is better for users to be informed about what is happening and
to be able to see exactly where matters might take a bad turn, than it is
to suppress verbiage for experienced user, who are certainly capable of
finding ways to do this themselves :-).  In a future release we might be
able to add features to the program itself to control message levels.

> The number of redials and the pause between redials should be controlled
> by variables rather than hardcoded into the dialing scripts.
>
Perhaps, but here again we'd probably need changes at the program level
rather than just in the scripts, because the concept of "variables" is
opaque to many users.  Too late for 3.14.

> The dialing scripts should not automatically set parity to none since
> that overrides the parity setting in the dialing directory.
>
Yes they should.  The trick is for them to restore the desired parity
after the connection is made.  This is supposed to happen in the improved
DIAL macro supplied with MS-DOS Kermit 3.14.

> Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE
> speed as high as the modem will allow.  I may be on shaky ground here
> but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems.
>
Why?  If the modem can autobaud at, say, 57600, and give a comprehensible
response, and we know how to set it up for RTS/CTS flow control, and we
can verify that this has, indeed, been done successfully (see latest
dialing scripts), what would the drawbacks be of using the highest speed?

> And
> for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing
> directory be respected.
>
Could you please explain?  If we are talking about error-correcting
modems, then the interface speed is independent of the connection speed
that is negotiated between the two modems.

> I wonder if HAYES.SCR might be patched to automatically "set output pacing"
> if the initial contact fails.  Again, those with more experience may
> convince me this is a bad idea.
>
It sounds like a good idea.  We'll take a look at this one.

> But the HAYES.SCR initialization string is fairly innocuous and maybe
> just automatically retrying with output pacing at 200 would catch the
> occasional dumb modem that seems to need this help.  Anyhow, unless
> someone has a strong argument against this tactic I plan to implement
> this strategy at Queen's.
>
Does anybody have an example of a modem for which this treatment would
be necessary?

> In summary, I'm hoping that over time, a set of dialing scripts will emerge
> that work for all PC/modem combinations here at Queen's.  (Probably a
> vain hope.)
>
Not at all!  As time goes on, we'll keep improving the modem scripts and
adding new ones.  Perhaps the whole business can become more table driven
and more tightly integrated with the program -- some kind of compromise
between the current method and the way C-Kermit does it, neither one of
which is perfect.  Meanwhile, anything that you have which might be of
general interest, feel free to post it or send it in.

And we'll keep your suggestions on the pile for the next release.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:08:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15572
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:37:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03666
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:37:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!quip.eecs.umich.edu!huggins
From: [e-mail] (Jim Huggins)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K
Date: 14 Oct 1994 17:08:10 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept.
Lines: 31
Message-Id: <37mdtq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: quip.eecs.umich.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Alan Greig <[e-mail]> wrote:
|In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
|
|>>  Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no
|>>explanation of the acronym was given.
|
|> Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer
|> Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3:
|>
|> "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when
|> we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming
|> sort of character." ...
|
|Now when I first came across Kermit in the early 1980s the docs
|claimed it stood for something like "KL10 Error-free Reciprocal
|Microcomputer Interface Terminal"
|
|That may have been contrived to try and prevent them being
|sued of course :-)

Frank da Cruz's book (cited above) gives the rest of the story --
the alternate definitions given for the name of Kermit, until they
finally asked Henson Associates for permission to use the un-acronymed
name.  The acronyms were mostly attempt to retro-fit an explanation
onto the string.
--
Jim Huggins, Univ. of Michigan                          [e-mail]
"You cannot pray to a personal computer no matter how user-friendly it is."
(PGP key available upon request)                             W. Bingham Hunter

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 18:52:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16611
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:53:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04961
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:52:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts
Date: 14 Oct 1994 18:52:55 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 49
Message-Id: <37mk27$[e-mail]>
References: <37jv25$[e-mail]> <37mgri$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37mgri$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <37jv25$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
>writes:
>> Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE
>> speed as high as the modem will allow.  I may be on shaky ground here
>> but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems.
>>
>Why?  If the modem can autobaud at, say, 57600, and give a comprehensible
>response, and we know how to set it up for RTS/CTS flow control, and we
>can verify that this has, indeed, been done successfully (see latest
>dialing scripts), what would the drawbacks be of using the highest speed?
>
>> And
>> for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing
>> directory be respected.
>>
>Could you please explain?  If we are talking about error-correcting
>modems, then the interface speed is independent of the connection speed
>that is negotiated between the two modems.


The drawbacks of using the highest speed occur on systems which probably
do not have a buffered UART or have high levels of interrupt activity
(systems with network cards, multiple active serial ports, ...).

It might be possible that even though RTS/CTS flow control is enable that
the cables are missing the appropriate lines.

Or that a terminal server on the other end of the connection does not use
RTS/CTS flow control and can handle the data throughput at 38400, but
losses characters at 57600.

Or there might be bugs in the virtual device driver that simulates RTS/CTS
to the application but doesn't implement it to the modem.

In other words, there are circumstances outside of Kermits or the users
control that make it desireable to have the dialing directory speed obeyed.

It would be a simple change to to script to make the entry in the dialing
directory the maximum speed used.

Just an idea.


Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
*NEW* OS/2 version available: ftp kermit.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:30:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17005
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:58:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05516
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:58:45 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!world!brigc
From: [e-mail] (Brig C McCoy)
Subject: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Organization: Southeast Kansas Library System, Iola, KS
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 17:30:20 GMT
Lines: 18

 >        We hear your comments, but I'd appreciate some separation of emotion
 >from real need (or want it if it were available) so we can better estimate th
 >situation. Just mark sections as *need*, *greed*, and *flame* and I'll get
 >the idea sooner or later.


*FLAME*

How can you expect us to react appropriately to someone who's entirely
too civil? :)

Thanks for the MS-Kermit, btw. Use it and like it.

...brig

---
 ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ People say I'm indecisive.  Am I?  I don't know.


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:21:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17388
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:04:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06071
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:04:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!alpha2.csd.uwm.edu!randyd
From: [e-mail] (Randall Elton Ding)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: hercmono underlining and 3.13 vs 3.11
Date: 14 Oct 1994 17:21:47 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee, Computing Services Division
Lines: 13
Distribution: usa
Message-Id: <37menb$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.202
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Have been using 3.11 for a long time now, but when I try 3.13
the underlined video is no longer underlined.  I have a old 286 with hercmono
card.  What could be the problem.

The high intensity video works fine though.


{
Randy.
[e-mail]
finger for 1024 bit pgp2.6 public key
key fingerprint 6D A1 28 15 42 BE 9B 6C  C0 1C 7E 88 A6 1E 3A B8
}

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:39:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19542
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:39:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09188
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:39:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!nntp.memphis.edu!flowers
From: [e-mail] (Harry Flowers)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 12:39:51 -0500
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The University of Memphis
Lines: 32
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
writes:
>     Answerback folks. Here's my answer back on that. The host asks
> for the contents of the string without the user being aware of it. That
> is a security hole.

Where do you get this?  The host may ask for terminal type without you being
aware of it, too, but that's not considered a hole.  The string you place in
answerback, if you put one there, is "when the host asks for this, this is
what you answer back".  How is this a problem?

Now, host *setable* answerbacks *are* a problem, since they come from your
input buffer.  You wouldn't want the host program putting delete commands
in your answerback, and then doing the ENQ and exiting.  This is indeed
something you should not allow.

As long as the user has complete control of what the answerback message is,
if any, there isn't a problem unless the user creates one for himself.

>     We hear your comments, but I'd appreciate some separation of emotion
> from real need (or want it if it were available) so we can better estimate the
> situation. Just mark sections as *need*, *greed*, and *flame* and I'll get
> the idea sooner or later.

In the past where I worked, we had a *need* for this, similar to what has
already been posted (a way of getting a location profile).  Kermit would
have been eliminated as an option based on lack of answerback support.
Where I work now, we don't use answerbacks, so I guess this is just a
*flame*. ;-)
--
Harry Flowers  Internet:[e-mail] or [e-mail]
The University of Memphis, 112 Administration Bldg., Memphis, TN 38152 (USA)

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:35:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21492
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:02:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11198
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:02:54 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!news.eecs.nwu.edu!bonomi
From: [e-mail] (Robert Bonomi)
Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 17:35:57 GMT
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Alan Greig <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>>  Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no
>>>explanation of the acronym was given.
>
>> Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer
>> Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3:
>>
>> "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when
>> we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming
>> sort of character." ...
>
>Now when I first came across Kermit in the early 1980s the docs
>claimed it stood for something like "KL10 Error-free Reciprocal
>Microcomputer Interface Terminal"
>
>That may have been contrived to try and prevent them being
>sued of course :-)

It *did* start with the -frog-, himself.  The name is used _with_permission_
of the copyright holder.  The "KL-10....." was fitted onto the name, -after-
it was selected.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 05:10:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24599
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:44:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14554
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:44:01 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit 3.13, Windows, "Unknown hardware for port", 8250/16550 UART
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 11:10:47 MDT
References: <37m578$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 43
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37m578$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Teemu Mottonen) writes:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a problem with running MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows 3.1. I'm
> developing a program with Borland Pascal for Windows that uses Kermit
> to call a central computer, transfer files etc. The com port settings
> seem correct ('SET COM1 \x3F8 IRQ 4'), because Kermit works ok in DOS
> and when executed directly from the Program Manager.
>
> The problem is that after running Kermit once (to dial central computer)
> on the second invokation, after 'SET PORT COM1' I get "?Warning: unknown
> hardware for port. Using Bios as BIOS1". After this communication fails.
>
> It seems that somehow Kermit is unable to verify the UART. I don't know
> what causes this: Windows, Kermit or my program. So, is it possible to
> disable the UART check (chkport routine in the assembler source code) by
> patching KERMIT.EXE ? Or maybe there's some combination of PIF & .INI
> settings that I'm missing ? Or perhaps I should somehow reset the UART
> after running the first script ?
>
> The modem is an external V.32 modem (8250 UART, but I use it at 2400 bps).
> I've also tried this with an internal modem (V.32 & 16550), but same results.
> The PC is a 486DX-33.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Teemu Mottonen.
> --
> Teemu Mottonen - Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki
-------
Teemu,
    It's kind of difficult to guess here. Windows is controlling the
physical serial ports and presents virtualized images to Kermit. One item
needed by Kermit is the port i/o address (such as \x3f8), and Kermit obtains
that either from the Bios work area in segment 40h (first four words are
COM1...COM4 i/o addresses) or from the SET COMx Kermit command. If Windows
or your Pascal program clears the seg 40h area then Kermit will produce
this message. If Windows has the port allocated to some other task Windows
may report 0's in seg 40h. Looking down their with debug or other means
is a quick way to see what's happening.
    Does your Pascal program access the ports in any way?
    Source code for MSK 3.13 is available on kermit.columbia.edu,
cd kermit/a. If modified then the patch file won't work anymore.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 09:35:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01898
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:17:14 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22056
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:17:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: hercmono underlining and 3.13 vs 3.11
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 15:35:43 MDT
References: <37menb$[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37menb$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Randall Elton Ding) writes:
> Have been using 3.11 for a long time now, but when I try 3.13
> the underlined video is no longer underlined.  I have a old 286 with hercmono
> card.  What could be the problem.
>
> The high intensity video works fine though.
--------
    The problem is tied to the major shift of dealing with underlining
in MSK 3.13. The mono case ought to have underlined, but the code apparently
decides to "color" on mono instead. There will be no patch for this because
MSK 3.14 is now being beta tested (hint: please try it and report back to
me).
    Thanks,
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 19:54:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03067
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:38:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23365
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:38:56 -0400
Control: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!tale
From: [e-mail] (David C Lawrence)
Subject: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Approved: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail] (David C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 19:54:53 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

comp.protocols.kermit.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote
for creation by 233:28 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 7 Sep 1994.

For your newsgroups file:
comp.protocols.kermit.misc    Kermit protocol and software.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

  The unmoderated newsgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc will be open to all
  topics related to Kermit protocol and software, including questions and
  answers regarding the acquisition and use of the software, and discussions
  of performance and protocol issues.  It is not intended as a software
  announcement forum or a software distribution method, e.g. posting of
  massive amounts of source code, although items such as short script
  programs (e.g. dialing scripts for new kinds of modems) of general interest
  can be posted, but with the understanding that the definitive source for
  Kermit software is the repository at Columbia University, and the act of
  posting an item to this newsgroup does not necessarily enter it into this
  repository.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 22:46:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04041
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:58:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24485
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:58:01 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!ctp.org!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Larry Powell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Tektronix emulation question
Date: 14 Oct 1994 15:46:59 -0700
Organization: California Technology Project of The Calif State Univ
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <37n1p3$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: eis.calstate.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

  I attempted to test the GIS program PC-MOSS which does
its graphics displays in Tektronix 4010 mode. (The preferred method
is with a device driver costing $40 which I do not have.) So I tried
MS-Kermit 3.13.
  It goes into graphics mode ok but frequently erases the screen.
Which makes it effectively useless. The session log showed several
occurrences of FF (x0C) which according to the manual (kermit's)
has several functions including erase the screen. When I changed
these (to CANCEL I think) and replayed it was ok.
  Another emulater (Tekterm) that I tested does not have
this problem.
  Any explanation? The manual says something like ReGIS graphics
command set is not supported. Is this related?

--
--Larry Powell    [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 11:17:01 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07188
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:13:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28973
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:13:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 17:17:01 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Harry Flowers) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
> writes:
>>     Answerback folks. Here's my answer back on that. The host asks
>> for the contents of the string without the user being aware of it. That
>> is a security hole.
>
> Where do you get this?  The host may ask for terminal type without you being
> aware of it, too, but that's not considered a hole.  The string you place in
> answerback, if you put one there, is "when the host asks for this, this is
> what you answer back".  How is this a problem?
    Maybe we can agree to differ on this host generated response from
the client.

> In the past where I worked, we had a *need* for this, similar to what has
> already been posted (a way of getting a location profile).  Kermit would
> have been eliminated as an option based on lack of answerback support.
> Where I work now, we don't use answerbacks, so I guess this is just a
> *flame*. ;-)
    Ok, I understand. And I suggested privately that a better scheme often
is to let the host o/s, rather than the client program, provide a line
identifier. After all, that is usually the comms link rather than a floppy or
*.ini file wandering around the place.
        Still, the commentary is appreciated.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 20:33:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09367
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:01:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02169
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:01:06 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit 3.13, Windows, "Unknown hardware for port", 8250/16550 UART
References: <37m578$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:33:02 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 57
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37m578$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Teemu Mottonen) writes:
>Hi all,
>
>I have a problem with running MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows 3.1. I'm
>developing a program with Borland Pascal for Windows that uses Kermit
>to call a central computer, transfer files etc. The com port settings
>seem correct ('SET COM1 \x3F8 IRQ 4'), because Kermit works ok in DOS
>and when executed directly from the Program Manager.
>
>The problem is that after running Kermit once (to dial central computer)
>on the second invokation, after 'SET PORT COM1' I get "?Warning: unknown
>hardware for port. Using Bios as BIOS1". After this communication fails.
>
>It seems that somehow Kermit is unable to verify the UART. I don't know
>what causes this: Windows, Kermit or my program. So, is it possible to
>disable the UART check (chkport routine in the assembler source code) by
>patching KERMIT.EXE ? Or maybe there's some combination of PIF & .INI
>settings that I'm missing ? Or perhaps I should somehow reset the UART
>after running the first script ?
>
>The modem is an external V.32 modem (8250 UART, but I use it at 2400 bps).
>I've also tried this with an internal modem (V.32 & 16550), but same results.
>The PC is a 486DX-33.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Teemu Mottonen.
>--
>Teemu Mottonen - Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki

I'm not a Windows user (I posess a 286 w/Deskmate :-) ), but I am aware of
this problem.

(and I may be wrong.  Since posting wrong answers to questions provokes
the right ones, I guess it can't hurt if I only have half of the picture!)

As far as I understand, Windows grabs the interrupts used by the modem
and passes it to the program using it.  However, when you invoke Kermit
again, Windows still has a hold on these interrupts and is HIDING your
com port from Kermit.  (I'm using simplistic terms, but this is how I
understand it).

I don't know how to release the interrupts.

However, I do know that, if you have (in your mscustom.ini is fine) the
command that directly tells Kermit what port to send it to (the x3f8
thing - I don't remember the syntax until I need to use it myself :> ),
it should work anyhow.

But making Windows release the com port would be hte best bet.  I don't
know how to, unfortunately.

How far am I off, everyone?


Ken
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 13:11:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11888
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 22:12:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06259
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 22:12:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14 beta-4 bug fix, announcement
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 19:11:39 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 5
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    Beta-4 14 Oct 94 of MS-DOS Kermit v3.14 cures a nasty bug:
Kermit will hang in an infinite loop if parity is set to other than
NONE. Cause was a problem in the new Connect mode status line.
    Thanks to Bert Tyler, again, for spotting this early.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 00:50:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14299
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:18:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10461
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:18:42 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!mcia
From: [e-mail] (Mike Ciaraldi)
Subject: Re: REPOST: Kermit over WinSock?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 00:50:26 GMT
Lines: 41
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mike Ciaraldi) writes:

>> I am using NetManage Chameleon to set up a SLIP link
>> from my PC to a Unix machine. It works fine with the included
>> telnet program, but I was wondering if I could run Kermit
>> over this TCP connection.
>>
>> Is WinSock support coming in version 3.14?
>------------
>    I think we need to explain winsock et al again. Winsock is a pure
>Windows support program (a spec, vendors make their own programs obeying
>the winsock spec), it cannot run at DOS level, and by itself it does nothing.
>Only pure Windows applications can talk to this Windows winsock support
>program. Beneath the winsock api level is someone's Windows TCP/IP protocol
>    Kermit is a smart DOS program with Windows awareness, but it is not
>a pure Windows program. It's not a TCP/IP stack which can be taken out and
>used for other purposes. It is a complete program (TCP/IP stack, Kermit
>protocol stack, applications, you name it) all in itself. Thus it is not
>associated with winsock.

Thanks for the technical info, Joe. I had used Kermit
over other TCP links by having it talk to the packet driver,
but these drivers were always loaded under DOS.

Since there were "shims" to convert between different interfaces specs,
I was hoping there was either something that would make
WinSock look like what Kermit needs, or that the Kermit
protocol stack could be redirected somehow to go through WinSock.

The TCP stack from NetManage is implemented as a Windows DLL,
so I can see why it would not be accessible to a program
like Kermit that is running in the DOS box.

Thanks anyway. I will definitely continue to use
Kermit for serial communications and for communication
through TCP/IP limks that use packet drivers.

--Mike Ciaraldi



From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 04:13:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14374
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:21:14 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10694
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:21:13 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!newshub.nosc.mil!nisevjo-slip1.nosc.mil!astewart
From: [e-mail] (Alan Stewart)
Subject: Emulating odd terminal types
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17
Sender: [e-mail] (Network News)
Organization: NISE West
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 04:13:31 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Is there a source for Kermit keyboard mapping for other terminal types besides
the built in ones ? I'm looking for a Wyse 60 right now but I think others
will come up in the future. I know I could construct one but it would be nice
to "plagarise" one like people often do for termcap entries.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
| Alan Stewart                >-O-<           Electronics Engineer   |
| Code 221                  ~       ~         SHF SATCOM             |
| NISE West                ~         ~        Software Support       |
| Bldg 509              ( ~           ~ )     U.S. Navy              |
| Vallejo, CA 94592   __|___         ___|__   Mare Island            |
| [phone]       \____/         \____/   [e-mail] |
 ------------------WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW------------------------






From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 04:02:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16727
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:29 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13603
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:27 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: problem with 3.14
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:02:26 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 9
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi,

When running kermite (I did rename it to kermit, overwriting the
original kermit.exe file), I get a patch file mismatch error. I renamed
the msrm314.pch to mskermit.pch like I might have that one would do it.
Any suggestions?

Jeff


From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 04:05:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16732
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13610
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: pushing to dos and back again
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:05:26 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 6
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

When you exit back from DOS to kermit, you have to hit a key, why?
Ckermit for os/2 does not need this. Can we please make this consistant
for macro writing reasons please?

Jeff


From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 04:38:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18505
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:40:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15159
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:40:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: still a problem with beta 3
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:38:29 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 7
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr1.primenet.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am still getting my modem to hang up while it dials if I drop to dos.
Maybe I want to check something while it is still waiting to connect. I
am not using the dial script command rather I am using atdt commands
withn connect mode.

Jeff


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 17:11:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22234
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:13:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18862
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:13:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Tektronix emulation question
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Oct 94 23:11:23 MDT
References: <37n1p3$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 28
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37n1p3$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Larry Powell) writes:
>   I attempted to test the GIS program PC-MOSS which does
> its graphics displays in Tektronix 4010 mode. (The preferred method
> is with a device driver costing $40 which I do not have.) So I tried
> MS-Kermit 3.13.
>   It goes into graphics mode ok but frequently erases the screen.
> Which makes it effectively useless. The session log showed several
> occurrences of FF (x0C) which according to the manual (kermit's)
> has several functions including erase the screen. When I changed
> these (to CANCEL I think) and replayed it was ok.
>   Another emulater (Tekterm) that I tested does not have
> this problem.
>   Any explanation? The manual says something like ReGIS graphics
> command set is not supported. Is this related?
>
> --
> --Larry Powell    [e-mail]
-----------
    ReGIS, as you probably know, is vastly different, and just plain
vast, than Tektronix graphics. If your applications program is generating
ReGIS commands then MS-DOS Kermit will not understand them.
    Regular Form Feed, as a Tek command by itself, means clear the
screen. It's your application program generating such commands, and thus
I suggest having a little talk with it.
    I have no information about Tekterm, and you didn't say what it
did vs what MSK did vs what the host asked to be done. Hence I'll pass
on this item unless you have something to add here.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 14 18:04:01 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24383
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 03:13:16 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20915
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 03:13:13 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: problem with 3.14
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 94 00:04:01 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop) writes:
> Hi,
>
> When running kermite (I did rename it to kermit, overwriting the
> original kermit.exe file), I get a patch file mismatch error. I renamed
> the msrm314.pch to mskermit.pch like I might have that one would do it.
> Any suggestions?
>
--------
    Yes, don't do that. There is no operational patch file during BETA
testing. This is not release code yet.
    As to your keypressing after popping back from DOS, I have no idea
what you mean because it does not happen here. Maybe you are in some kind
of a macro. Hints are welcome.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 02:44:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29430
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 05:15:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25520
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 05:15:49 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:44:21 GMT
Lines: 46
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Ratzlaff) writes:

>>I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX.  I have
>>Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions.  The problem
>>is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to
>>make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters
>>are missing from the resulting print out.  There appears to be
>>something wrong in the handshake somewhere.  It is especially noticeable when
>>I'm trying to make a plot.
>>
>>Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters?

    I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
    account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
    print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
    I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
    chunks of characters.

    I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or
    I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my
    Unix account:  The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to
    the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen,
    with an occassional buffer overflow error message.  I have to
    reboot my computer to stop it.

    I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not
    working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory
    total on my PC.  (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow
    control, so I have XON/XOFF set.)  But now I wonder if it's
    something else.

>Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and
>print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w
>problem not a handshake problem.

    I usually "export" my mail into a file, then do a regular file
    transfer.  But this is a pain in the neck.  I'd also like to try
    packet sizes of around 2K to see if that speeds up file transfers.
    Any ideas?  Joe?

    Thanks in advance,

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 14:26:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06458
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 10:26:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19629
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 10:26:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!gisbert
From: [e-mail] (Gisbert W. Selke)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: problem with 3.14
Date: 15 Oct 1994 14:26:23 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <37ooqf$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>    As to your keypressing after popping back from DOS, I have no idea
>what you mean because it does not happen here. Maybe you are in some kind
>of a macro. Hints are welcome.

I think it is this: when in CONNECT mode and you do Alt-P or Alt-H - P or
whatever to get to the command prompt, then enter EXIT to return to your
session, Kermit prompts you with "Press space to continue ..." (at least,
it has done so since many generations). It does *not* do so when PUSHing from
Kermit's commdn line, btw!
While the usefulness of this may be argued, it certainly has nothing to do
with macro writing, since you cannot use a macro to something in connect
mode, drop to DOS, have the macro talk to DOS, then re-connect *all
macro-driven* etc.

\Gisbert         WIdO, Bonn, Germany
  <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 16:22:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11090
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:24:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25960
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:24:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!swalton
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Walton)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Amiga C Kermit is available
Date: 15 Oct 1994 16:22:20 GMT
Organization: Cal State Northridge, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <37ovjs$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: galileo.csun.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'd just like to point out, briefly, that Amiga C Kermit 5A(190) is
available for beta test on watsun in kermit/test/bin/ckiker.exe.  It has
the same Amiga console (ANSI) terminal emulation as before, but many
bugs have been fixed and the DIAL, SCRIPT and RESEND commands now work.
Bug reports can be mailed directly to me.  Please install CKERMIT.INI
and CKERMOD.INI in S:  before using it.

So far, the silence from Amiga C Kermit users has been deafening :-) .
--
Stephen Walton, California State University, Northridge
"Oh no, not another one."---Heard frequently      [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 16:39:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12059
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:39:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26795
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:39:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Date: 15 Oct 1994 16:39:28 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 178
Message-Id: <37p0k0$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
>
>     I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
>     account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
>     print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
>     I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
>     chunks of characters.
>
I can't emphasize this strongly enough:  You must have the most effective
means of flow control that is available to you enabled at every interface
along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the
way to the printer.

>     I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or
>     I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my
>     Unix account:  The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to
>     the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen,
>     with an occassional buffer overflow error message.  I have to
>     reboot my computer to stop it.
>
This is pretty bizarre -- I've never seen such a thing, and can only
speculate that this is one of those cases where DOS turns off interrupts
to write to a (slow) disk, after which matters quickly disintegrate.

>     I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not
>     working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory
>     total on my PC.  (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow
>     control, so I have XON/XOFF set.)  But now I wonder if it's
>     something else.
>
Let's look at this connection in detail to illustrate all the things that
might go wrong, starting from the printer and working back to the host
application.

The printer should be a parallel printer.  DOS handles parallel printers
very nicely, because the parallel interface has a flow-control ("busy")
wire, and the DOS print driver pays attention to it.  If you have a serial
printer, all bets are off.  (There are printer drivers for serial printers
that provide Xon/Xoff -- one such driver is on the MS-DOS Kermit 3.14
diskette, but it's primitive and supports only COM1 -- if anybody wants
to take a shot at beefing it up, let me know.)

When Kermit receives material to be printed, it uses DOS services to send
it to the printer.  If Kermit gets the data intact, but the printer fails
to print it, then it's a problem with the printer itself or the DOS
printer driver, in which case, there is little that Kermit can do to help.

That raises the question: under what circumstances could Kermit itself
lose incoming data?  There are (at least) two fundamental reasons this
could happen: (1) interrupt conflicts, and (2) lack of flow control.
Reason (1) was mentioned above.  If you have a slow disk and the disk
driver masks off COM port and/or timer interrupts during disk writes, your
only recourse is to fool with the BUFFERS= parameter in CONFIG.SYS -- less
disk buffering could mean shorter amounts of time during which COM port
interrupts are disabled.  Of course, newer, faster PCs are less likely to
have this problem (but there are no guarantees).

Lack of flow control is the more likely culprit.  You say your modem does
not offer hardware flow control so you have to use Xon/Xoff.  So you tell
Kermit to "set flow xon/xoff".  The rest of this discussion involves
Xon/Xoff flow control, so those of you who are able to use hardware flow
control -- which is always preferred and recommended -- can stop reading
now.

Xon/Xoff is a "protocol" like any other, and requires two players, just
like a game of catch.  The ball is an ordinary data character, Ctrl-S
(Xoff) or Ctrl-Q (Xon), mixed in with all the other data characters.  Who
and where is the other player?  (What if there IS no other player?
The first thing to check is whether somebody, somewhere along the
communication path ALSO has Xon/Xoff enabled.  If not, then after you
throw your first ball, you'll never get it back!)

The farther away the other player is, the greater the chance of error:
propogation delays, noise, etc, become increasingly dominating factors
with distance.

To illustrate, suppose you have 2400bps dialup connection, but (for some
reason) there is a one-second propogation delay, or "reaction time" to an
Xoff -- assuming it gets through at all (i.e. was not corrupted by noise).
The printer tells the printer driver it is not ready for more data.
Kermit finds out about this and sends an Xoff to the host.  Meanwhile,
since it will be a full second before the host receives and reacts to the
Xoff, then up to 240 more characters might already be on the way to be
printer.  If any buffer between the host and the printer has less than
that much room left, characters will be lost.

So the trick, is to cut down on the propogation delay:

  Be sure you have enabled Xon/Xoff at the place that is closest to
  your PC, and that that "place" is then capable of propogating flow
  control "upstream".

Suppose your modem supports "local Xon/Xoff".  Since your modem is the device
that is closest to the PC's serial port, then that would be where Kermit's
partner in the "game of catch" should be positioned.  BUT ONLY IF the modem
has a way to tell the other modem to tell the "thing" that the other modem
is attached to (etc etc...) to turn the flow of data off and on.

This can be done in two ways.  Error-correcting modems, i.e. those supporting
protocols such as MNP, V.42, or PEP, can send flow-control protocol messages
to each other (but then, these also support hardware flow control, so this
is not relevant here).

Some non-error-correcting modems have an option for "local Xon/Xoff flow
control with pass-through" -- meaning that if they receive an Xoff signal
from the PC, they will stop sending data to the PC (until they receive an
Xon from the PC), and they will also pass the Xoff signal to the other
modem, for delivery to the "thing that the modem is connected to".  Both
of these methods, of course, requires some buffering capacity in the
modem (read your modem manual), and they also require cooperation from
beyond the remote modem.

What is the remote modem connected to?  Let's say it's a terminal server.
This is a good situation for us, because if we can set up flow control
between Kermit and the terminal server, then the network protocol between
the terminal server and whatever is "behind" it (network, host, operating
system, application, etc) will take care of flow control (and error
correction, and all the rest) for us -- these are features of
terminal-server protocols such as TELNET, RLOGIN, and LAT.

When you first make the connection to the terminal server and you see its
prompt, give it a command to enable Xon/Xoff flow control.  Of course the
exact form of this command depends on the terminal server.  Here are some
examples:

  Cisco: terminal flow soft
  Annex (Xylogics): stty iflow xonxoff oflow xonxoff

This will give you the most effective possible flow control on connection,
but it won't be perfect.  Xon and Xoff are ordinary data characters, subject
to corruption by noise, which can result in deadlocks (when Xon is lost)
or buffer overflows (when Xoff is lost).  If you have a clean connection,
though, then response should be quick and effective.

The price you pay is the inability to use Xon and Xoff as ordinary data
characters.  This is important for EMACS users (Ctrl-S is used in Search
and Save commands, Ctrl-Q is used in Quote and other commands), and it
also prevents the use of file transfer protocols like X- and Ymodem, and
probably also Zmodem unless you give it some special tweaking.  But Kermit
transfers will work fine (unless you have gone out of your way to
"unprefix" Ctrl-S or Ctrl-Q and/or their 8-bit counterparts).

Another alternative is to position your flow-control partner farther
upstream, for example, at the host operating system.  If you are connected
directly to a serial port on the host computer, this is your only choice
anyway.  But if you are coming in through a terminal server or any kind of
network, this will increase the propogation delay siginificantly.

To enable Xon/Xoff flow control in UNIX (often called Start/Stop flow
control in UNIX documentation), the command is usually something like:

  stty ixon ixoff -ixany

In VMS, the commands are:

  set terminal /hostsync /ttsync /noreadsync

On IBM Series/1, 4994, 7171 and similar 3270 protocol converters that
provide dialup access to IBM mainframe full-screen sessions, Xon/Xoff
flow control is generally a built-in feature that can't be disabled.

> >Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and
> >print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w
> >problem not a handshake problem.
>
>     I usually "export" my mail into a file, then do a regular file
>     transfer.  But this is a pain in the neck.  I'd also like to try
>     packet sizes of around 2K to see if that speeds up file transfers.
>
You misunderstood the suggestion.  Print from your host mail application
in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes
printer output to a file on your PC's disk.  This will eliminate flow
control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself,
if that is what is causing the problem.  Then you can print the file
later, using the DOS PRINT command.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 16:43:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12237
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:43:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27109
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:43:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Emulating odd terminal types
Date: 15 Oct 1994 16:43:35 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <37p0rn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Alan Stewart) writes:
> Is there a source for Kermit keyboard mapping for other terminal types
> besides the built in ones ? I'm looking for a Wyse 60 right now but I
> think others will come up in the future. I know I could construct one
> but it would be nice to "plagarise" one like people often do for termcap
> entries.
>
MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, announced yesterday for Beta testing, includes Wyse 50
terminal emulation.  Wyse 60 in "Wyse mode" is the same as Wyse 50.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode,
file mstibm.zip.

Note that terminal emulation is a lot more than a matter of what the keys
send.  In Kermit, you can make the keys send whatever you want them to using
the SET KEY command.  But there also has to be code within the program itself
to parse and act upon incoming escape sequences, which are different for each
kind of terminal: DEC, Data General, Wyse, Tektronix, etc.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 04:19:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13595
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:14:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28669
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:14:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 94 10:19:36 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 52
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Ratzlaff) writes:
>
>>>I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX.  I have
>>>Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions.  The problem
>>>is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to
>>>make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters
>>>are missing from the resulting print out.  There appears to be
>>>something wrong in the handshake somewhere.  It is especially noticeable when
>>>I'm trying to make a plot.
>>>
>>>Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters?
>
>     I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
>     account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
>     print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
>     I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
>     chunks of characters.
>
>     I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or
>     I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my
>     Unix account:  The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to
>     the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen,
>     with an occassional buffer overflow error message.  I have to
>     reboot my computer to stop it.
>
>     I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not
>     working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory
>     total on my PC.  (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow
>     control, so I have XON/XOFF set.)  But now I wonder if it's
>     something else.
-------------
    Once again, please tell us the version and patch number of the Kermit
involved (we don't service non-Columbia Kermits) and whatever other
information you think might be important.
    Is there a communications device between the far modem and your Unix
box? There should be no packet length difficulties with a straight modem to
modem, machine to machine, connection provided flow control is active at *all*
points. I appreciate it is difficult to know what's on the remote system.
    The ^F^F... effect could be from a corrupted kermit.exe file, from
systems problems outside of Kermit, from memory management troubles in the
PC, whatnot.
    640KB is more than adequate to run Kermit (it's a small sized program).
If you are using screen rollback for Connect mode then those screens are
stored either in conventional memory (at about 4KB per screen) or in expanded
memory. Expanded memory via software must pin down where the expanded memory
64KB frame buffer is located, and that is something each user must attend to.
Please don't use A000-BFFF since that's the domain of the video system.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 17:15:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13651
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:15:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28779
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:15:16 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.1.0
Date: 15 Oct 1994 17:15:15 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 7
Message-Id: <37p2n3$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Is anybody out there running AIX 4.1.0?

If you are willing to check out C-Kermit on it, please send me email.

Thanks.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 17:18:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14505
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:36:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29951
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:36:20 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts
Date: 15 Oct 1994 17:18:36 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 92
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37p2tc$[e-mail]>
References: <37jv25$[e-mail]> <37mgri$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Thanks to fdc for his responses.  In the following, any line prefixed by
two > is from my original post, one > is from Frank's reply, 0 > is new from me.

|> It should be perfectly safe to change REINPUT 0 to REINPUT 2 in this case,
|> and it will probably have the desired effect.  Since you have access to a
|> modem that appears to need this, maybe you could try this and report the
|> results back to me.  I'd also like to see a session log of a manual
|> dialing session -- maybe your modem outputs more linefeeds than regular
|> Hayes modems.
I'll contact the two users that I know had this problem and ask them to
create a session log.  One was a GVC 9600, the other a 9600 "Hayes compatible"
CompuDyne (sp?).

|> > I find the noise level of the scripts irritating...

|> A valid point, to be sure, but one that can't be addressed in the 3.14
|> cycle...

|> > The number of redials and the pause between redials should be controlled
|> > by variables rather than hardcoded into the dialing scripts.

|> Perhaps, but here again we'd probably need changes at the program level
|> rather than just in the scripts, because the concept of "variables" is
|> opaque to many users.  Too late for 3.14.

My complaints are minor and fit into the "gee, I wish ..." category.
Not to belabour the point, I don't expect or require my users to understand Kermit
variables.  Instead, I give them a KCONFIG utility that asks various questions about
their modem, etc. and edits their MSCUSTOM.INI file for them.  I changed all the
dialing scripts to use variables and so KCONFIG can also tailor the redial
mechanism via MSCUSTOM.INI.

|> > The dialing scripts should not automatically set parity to none...
|> >
|> Yes they should.  The trick is for them to restore the desired parity...

Great!  Sounds like 3.14 gives me what I need.
|>
|> > Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE
|> > speed as high as the modem will allow.  I may be on shaky ground here
|> > but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems.
|> >
|> Why?  If the modem can autobaud at, say, 57600, and give a comprehensible
|> response, and we know how to set it up for RTS/CTS flow control, and we
|> can verify that this has, indeed, been done successfully (see latest
|> dialing scripts), what would the drawbacks be of using the highest speed?
|>
|> > And
|> > for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing
|> > directory be respected.
|> >
|> Could you please explain?  If we are talking about error-correcting
|> modems, then the interface speed is independent of the connection speed
|> that is negotiated between the two modems.

Admittedly I do not understand all the complexities here although I do understand
the difference between interface speed and modulation speed, thanks in large
part to your great explanations in the original Kermit book.  My observation
is that on a 7/e/1 connection to an aging PACX that fronts a Series/1 interface
to our IBM mainframe, increasing the DTE<->DCE speed *decreased* the file transfer
rate.  If memory serves correctly this was a problem on uploads only.  And I
have no doubt that there are plenty of other situations outside my experience
that may require a less optimistic assumption than if the modem can go at 57600
let's ignore the DIALUPS.TXT table.  Respecting the table makes it so much easier
for unusual situations, and (apologies in advance for being presumptuous) is in
keeping with the Kermit philosophy of making it work first and making it fast second.

|>
|> > In summary, I'm hoping that over time, a set of dialing scripts will emerge
|> > that work for all PC/modem combinations here at Queen's.  (Probably a
|> > vain hope.)
|> >
|> Not at all!  As time goes on, we'll keep improving the modem scripts and
|> adding new ones.  Perhaps the whole business can become more table driven...

That would be really great!  I've thought about doing that myself but so far
my experience with modems makes me skeptical that I could really make it work.
I even wonder if a better approach might be to hack HAYES.SCR so that the
user could simply define a prefix string for his/her modem.  For some of my
users this may well be a good approach, e.g., because they already see an
initialization string that "works" for their modem in another comm program.
On the other hand, it also makes it very easy for somebody to shoot themselves
in the foot so I'd probably just exchange one set of problems for another.

|>
|> And we'll keep your suggestions on the pile for the next release.
Thanks again.
--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 18:25:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16630
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:25:29 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02777
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:25:28 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!news-server!hagar
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH
Date: 15 Oct 1994 18:25:16 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 27
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <37li8m$[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <37m5bq$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulam.engin.umich.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 14 Oct 1994 14:42:02 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


>>> In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> |Same here, with most commands (except CD and CWD). For example SHOW COMM
>>> |hangs up the modem. I noticed that the auto-hangup happens only with high
>>> |speeds, using a 2400bps modem all is fine (but slow of course ;-) Using
>>> |2400bps speed with a 14k4 modem also works but using higher speeds with
>>> |the 14k4 modem not.

>>> Same problem here as well.  I'm running 3.14 on a Tandy XT clone with an
>>> Intel external 14.4k modem.

I have a similar problem on a Zeinth Z 425S+ running Windows 3.1,
MsKermit 3.13 patch level 12, with Intel internal 14.4 modem on Com 2,
but it only happens sometimes; most of the time its just fine.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Paul Holloway           |e-mail: [e-mail]
                              |   URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Paul Holloway           |e-mail: [e-mail]
                              |   URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 18:38:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19314
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:21:58 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06462
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:21:57 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!ruu.nl!survis.surfnet.nl!Xander.Jansen
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
In-Reply-To: <37p0k0$[e-mail]>
X-Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Phone: [phone]
Sender: [e-mail]
Address: "Cluetinckborch, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL"
Telefax: [phone]
Organization: SURFnet bv
References: <[e-mail]> <37p0k0$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 18:38:10 GMT
Lines: 42
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

On 15 Oct 1994, Frank da Cruz wrote:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
> >
> >     I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
> >     account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
> >     print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
> >     I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
> >     chunks of characters.
> >
> I can't emphasize this strongly enough:  You must have the most effective
> means of flow control that is available to you enabled at every interface
> along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the
> way to the printer.

For what it's worth, a note from the release notes of Pine 3.91:
-----
Changes since pine 3.90.

Pine 3.91 is primarily a bug-fix release, to correct many (but not all)
of the problems reported with version 3.90.

IMPORTANT NOTE: if you are plagued by messages saying ^X or ^Q not
defined, or printers losing parts of messages sent from Pine, then set the
new feature:  "preserve-start-stop-characters" .  This is needed
whenever your printer, modem, or async communications program is
configured to use software flow control.  Note that setting this feature
will result in Pine appearing to "hang" if you accidentally type a ^S.
The remedy for this situation is to type a ^Q.
-----

Although I don't think that this will help in the specific situation
discussed (but you never know ;), it might help others using Pine and
being plagued by missing characters when printing 'attached-to-ansi'
or having other flow control pains.

Pine 3.91 can be fetched from ftp.cac.washington.edu, directory pine.

Xander

- This message was brought to you via MSK 3.14 Beta3 and Pine 3.91 ;-)

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 19:29:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19715
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:29:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06800
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:29:53 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 and Semicolons
Date: 15 Oct 1994 19:29:51 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <37pajf$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Luigi M Bianchi <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I have set up the new version.  Very good!  Congratulations and, once
> again, thank you for a job really well done, and for your continuing
> generosity in releasing this marvelous software free of charge.
>
Thanks for the nice words.

> And now for a little change (bug?) I noticed.  The final couple of lines
> in my mscustom.ini are:
>
> menu;
> version;
>
> These used to work fine with 3.13.  With 3.14 I must remove the ";"
> or else an error message appears: '"menu;" not usable here'.
>
Not a bug, but a new feature, mentioned in section 19 of the KERMIT.UPD
file.  Trailing comments must have a space or tab before the semicolon.

Before this change, it was very difficult to put a semicolon in a string,
such as "get $disk0:foo.bar;3" or "output \27[?63;1;2;3;8;9;15c" -- all
sorts of difficult quoting was needed, which varied with the
macro/variable nesting level.  Now we can write such items without any
quoting at all, as long as there is no space before the semicolon.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 08:03:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24321
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 17:13:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13049
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 17:13:01 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Tektronix emulation question
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 94 14:03:21 MDT
References: <37n1p3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>     Regular Form Feed, as a Tek command by itself, means clear the
> screen. It's your application program generating such commands, and thus
> I suggest having a little talk with it.

Um, Joe, my Tek 4006 doesn't clear the screen unless you send it <ESC><FF>.
A <FF> by itself doesn't do anything.
--
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Roger Ivie      | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as
[e-mail] |     'obsolete-ready'

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 09:41:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27689
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 18:12:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16643
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 18:12:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK beta-5, announcement
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 94 15:41:15 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    Beta-5 15 Oct 1994 of MS-DOS Kermit has several fixes for
problems reported over the past twenty four hours.
    ESC character in \m(blah  did not complete the name of the macro
properly. The fix now allows ESC word-completion within \fxxx functions
which take a macro name as an argument.
    Typing ^U at the Kermit prompt to erase the whole command line
left a remanent which could be seen by typing BS.
    Goto label could find a label which was longer than the target
but otherwise had the same spelling up to the match point.

    Beta-5 will be on kermit.columbia.edu Saturday evening or sooner.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 10:21:01 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29960
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:12:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20192
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:12:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK beta-5, more bugs fixed
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 94 16:21:01 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    Addendeum to the MSK beta-5 bug list fixes:

    SET EXIT WARNING is back to having a space between EXIT and
WARNING. This will be changed to individual keywords in a day or so.
    Command EXIT now does not continue in a current Take file;
it gets out all the way and exits Kermit (invoking macro on_exit
if it exists).
    Tektronix command Control-L (Form Feed, FF) clears screen. I've
commented it out just now. This command has been one of two screen clearing
commands (the other is ESC ^L) for years and years with no complaints
from anyone. I'm not sure of its heritage since Tek 4010 is implemented
with sundry variations by many vendors. If you are happy and things don't
break otherwise we will leave it out.

    We have a short list of more involved suggestions to consider and
possibly implement, and that will take a day or two to finish.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 19:15:56 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00874
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:34:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21567
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:34:19 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ad891
From: [e-mail] (Bill Thorsteinson)
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Bill Thorsteinson)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <37li8m$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:15:56 GMT
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] (One from the West) says:

>    I have download the beta version of kermit from columbia.edu.  Now
>everytime I escape to DOS the modem hang up.  Seem like it drop DTR when
>you go to DOS for some reason.  3.13 doesn't do this.  Can anyone
>enlighten me on this problem ? :) Thank you very much.
>
I have the same problem with 3.13 patch level 13.

I got around it by switching hangup on DTR off on the Modem.

/Bill Thorsteinson


From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 00:06:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02031
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:07:23 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23557
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:07:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Date: 16 Oct 1994 00:06:55 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 4
Message-Id: <37pqqv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might
get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard,
and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer?

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 13:10:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07655
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 22:13:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00772
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 22:13:03 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Oct 94 19:10:17 MDT
References: <37pqqv$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37pqqv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>
> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might
> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard,
> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer?
--------
    Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100
operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are
welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the
sources appear at release time.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 05:20:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15903
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:22:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11665
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:22:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Date: 16 Oct 1994 05:20:05 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 36
Message-Id: <37qd65$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <37pqqv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:

>In article <37pqqv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>
>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might
>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard,
>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer?
>--------
>    Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100
>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are
>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the
>sources appear at release time.
>    Joe D.
>

Joe,
 You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking
 if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether
 there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would
 support that version of FOSSIL that was available.

 For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the
 Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places
 where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting
 programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let
 the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL.

 So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen
 and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL.

 Basically, I just wanted to know if you thought it might be worth the try.
 I'll read the documentation and fiddle with it if you think it may work.

 Also keep in mind the version. I have no idea how backwardly compatible
 your implementation was intended to be.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 05:23:42 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16677
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:47:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12652
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:47:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!news.uwa.edu.au!newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au!csuvax1!anson
From: [e-mail] (Binh Anson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 16 Oct 1994 05:23:42 GMT
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

G'day,

I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as
[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling.

Could anyone explain, and advise how to fix these problems ?

Regards,
Bi`nh
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Binh Anson            FAX: [phone] (Perth, Australia)
                Email: [e-mail]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 08:09:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21127
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 04:09:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17458
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 04:09:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!htnguyen
From: [e-mail] (One from the West)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH
Date: 16 Oct 1994 08:09:03 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Lines: 10
Message-Id: <37qn2v$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: grover.cecs.csulb.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Thank you all for replying
    It is actually something caused by kermit.  I have download a
newer version of 3.14 and it work fine now. Still trying 3.14 :)
--
                       Huy Nguyen ([e-mail])
                Network Administrator
                Career Development Center
                Califonia State Univeristy Long Beach


From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 10:08:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24576
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 06:10:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22181
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 06:10:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!sunc!jp1ek
From: [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta Ready
Date: 16 Oct 1994 10:08:52 GMT
Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield
Lines: 10
Message-Id: <37qu3k$[e-mail]>
References: <37k7db$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunc.shef.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: See announcement in comp.protocols.kermit and/or
: comp.protocols.kermit.announce.

I have installed the 3.14 distribution in /ftp/pub/tools/KERMIT
directory on kuso.shef.ac.uk (143.167.25.1).

--
Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield,
Sheffield, England S10 2TN [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 14:49:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00646
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:49:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15559
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:49:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 16 Oct 1994 14:49:35 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <37rehv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
> I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or
> reading news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen,
> such as [12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still
> appearing at the top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling.
> Could anyone explain, and advise how to fix these problems ?
>
Evidently PINE, and apparently also your newsreader, turn off flow
control.  Thus, if they are sending stuff faster than the PC can process,
the PC sends an Xoff flow control signal to stop the flow while it
catches up, and this signal is ignored.

Workarounds: (a) Tell the host application NOT to turn off flow control.
Reportedly, the command for this in PINE is "preserve-start-stop-characters".
I don't know about your newsreader; (b) switch to hardware (RTS/CTS) flow
control if your modem supports it -- it probably does.

Solution (b) is preferable.

See the long discussion of Xon/Xoff flow control in yesterday's postings
to this group.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 14:54:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00815
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:54:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15875
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:54:15 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Date: 16 Oct 1994 14:54:15 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <37reqn$[e-mail]>
References: <37qd65$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37qd65$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
writes:
>  You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking
>  if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether
>  there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would
>  support that version of FOSSIL that was available.
>
I can't say anything definitive here, not having seen a Z100 for a looooong
time, but there is more to running the IBM version of Kermit on a Z100 than
redirecting COM and console i/o through the BIOS.  There are probably
thousands of other IBM-specific actions taken by the IBM PC version of MS-DOS
Kermit relating to the memory layout, video BIOS, interrupt vectors,
keyboard, networks, and so on.  In particular, I would not expect the IBM PC
terminal emulation code to run on a non-IBM compatible PC.  But I suppose
it's always worth a try :-)

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 03:17:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03732
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:13:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20119
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:13:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta Ready
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 09:17:03 MDT
References: <37k7db$[e-mail]> <37qu3k$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37qu3k$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth) writes:
> Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : See announcement in comp.protocols.kermit and/or
> : comp.protocols.kermit.announce.
>
> I have installed the 3.14 distribution in /ftp/pub/tools/KERMIT
> directory on kuso.shef.ac.uk (143.167.25.1).
>
> --
> Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield,
> Sheffield, England S10 2TN [e-mail]

------
Earl,
    That's a gesture sure to save some bandwidth across the pond.
Please note that the files will change daily (hourly) as we digest
all the comments coming in. If testers with reports will please grab the
latest beta before reporting a problem then it will save some time too.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 03:30:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03829
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:16:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20557
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:16:34 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 09:30:06 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <37pqqv$[e-mail]> <37qd65$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 40
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37qd65$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>
> In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:
>
>>In article <37pqqv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>>
>>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might
>>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard,
>>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer?
>>--------
>>    Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100
>>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are
>>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the
>>sources appear at release time.
>>    Joe D.
>>
>
> Joe,
>  You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking
>  if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether
>  there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would
>  support that version of FOSSIL that was available.
>
>  For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the
>  Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places
>  where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting
>  programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let
>  the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL.
>
>  So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen
>  and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL.
--------
    Ok, now I understand your request. The answer is no this time too,
but not a "huff and puff" no. The reason is it would very heavily chop up
the program and lose large amounts of functionality. Fossil does not come
even close to providing the interfaces needed and used by Kermit.
        Z100 Kermit does work. Thus I fail to see good reasons for drastic
program changes just to run on a Z100. If I've still missed the point then
please let me know.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 17:23:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05959
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 13:23:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24534
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 13:23:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 16 Oct 1994 17:23:26 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, New York City
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <37rnie$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, Binh Anson
<[e-mail]> wrote:
|I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading
|news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as
|[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the
|top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling.

I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5
on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET
SPEED 57600.  And yes, I'm using rts/cts.  My XT, apparently, just isn't
fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow
control.  I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data
overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k.  My solution?  SET SPEED 19200.
It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer,
and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k.
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o I sure as heck don't speak for
     Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New
     Columbia University/New York City   |   Yorkers, or anyone else at all

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 20:06:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12527
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 16:11:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05678
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 16:11:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn
From: [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Why no mouse suuport??
Date: 16 Oct 1994 20:06:38 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <37s14e$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]



Why doesn't kermit have mouse support similar to x-win?

this would be very benificial!

I know it is supposed to have copy and paste support, but I have yet to
see it work, so I have to use a tsr called markit.com to copy and paste!
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
*   *   *   *   *   *   [e-mail]    *   *   *   *   *   *   *   @
Tim Flynn, Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008  ph.(515)-294-9022@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 07:39:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15151
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:14:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10157
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:14:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 13:39:31 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <37rnie$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 27
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37rnie$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, Binh Anson
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
> |I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading
> |news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as
> |[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the
> |top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling.
>
> I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5
> on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET
> SPEED 57600.  And yes, I'm using rts/cts.  My XT, apparently, just isn't
> fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow
> control.  I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data
> overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k.  My solution?  SET SPEED 19200.
> It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer,
> and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k.
----------
    Serial port overruns yield a Control-G surrogate for one or more
characters lost at the serial port. Consequences of this are control
sequences, such as above, are fractured and show as text on the screen.
Overruns occur if the port interrupts can't be serviced fast enough
(the system is blocking interrupts for too long). Simple serial port buffer
overlaps occur if the other side does not stop sending before the Kermit
internal circular receive buffer fills; no Control-G's here.
    Both are out of the hands of Kermit and indeed a faster machine
or tighter flow control through the entire system are called for.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 21:51:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16614
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:52:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12656
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:52:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!redstone.interpath.net!mercury.interpath.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Pat Fogarty)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 16 Oct 1994 17:51:53 -0400
Organization: Interpath -- Public Access UNIX for North Carolina
Lines: 42
Message-Id: <37s79p$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <37rnie$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.interpath.net
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37rnie$[e-mail]>,
Yeechang Lee <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>, Binh Anson
><[e-mail]> wrote:
>|I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading
>|news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as
>|[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the
>|top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling.
>
>I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5
>on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET
>SPEED 57600.  And yes, I'm using rts/cts.  My XT, apparently, just isn't
>fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow
>control.  I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data
>overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k.  My solution?  SET SPEED 19200.
>It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer,
>and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k.



I am running a 286/12 MHz laptop and ran into the same problem when I
bought a 14.4 Hayes. Did all the tests and tried all the recommended
fixes. SET SPEED 19200 was all it took. Older machines WILL NOT work at
higher port speeds no matter what UART they have.

I've had 3.13 report transfers as high as 2200 cps on uncompressed text,
even at the slow port speed, though 1500-1600 is more normal with my
local provider.


Your mileage may vary........



Pat





--
Pat Fogarty    [e-mail]    [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 22:46:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20503
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:29:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19705
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:29:34 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!a2i!dold.a2i!dold
From: Clarence Dold <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: jive.rahul.net
Nntp-Posting-User: dold
Organization: a2i network
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]> <373nbp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 22:46:17 GMT
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Ken Udut ([e-mail]) wrote:

: There is another option.  While displaying the cursor position isn't
: practical, I know some people have asked about cut-and-paste functions.

I have used grabtext with good success with MSKermit, with two caveats.
It does not work with NCSA Telnet.
It collides with WordPerfect for DOS, but not other graphics programs.
It should "disable itself" when a program tries to use the mouse, but WP
doesn't play well with it.


Available from OAK.Oakland.EDU 141.210.10.117

Directory SimTel/msdos/screen/
grbtxt12.zip  B    9220  920826  Grab screen text, cut & paste w/mouse to kybd.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - [e-mail]
                - Pope Valley & Napa CA.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 11:20:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22856
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24070
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 17:20:16 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <37rnie$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37rnie$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee) writes:
> I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5
> on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET
> SPEED 57600.  And yes, I'm using rts/cts.  My XT, apparently, just isn't
> fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow
> control.

One thing to remember is that hardware flow control is assymetric. While the
modem can hold off the computer, the computer has no way to signal the modem
that it cannot accept data. As near as I can figure, the RS-232 guys thought
that computers would _always_ be fast enough to take the data...
--
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Roger Ivie      | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as
[e-mail] |     'obsolete-ready'

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 11:21:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22861
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:55 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24074
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:53 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why no mouse suuport??
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 17:21:40 MDT
References: <37s14e$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37s14e$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn) writes:
>
>
> Why doesn't kermit have mouse support similar to x-win?
>
> this would be very benificial!
>
> I know it is supposed to have copy and paste support, but I have yet to
> see it work, so I have to use a tsr called markit.com to copy and paste!
---------
    Text mode screens aren't like graphics mode screens. Kermit is
not X windows. X windows has a whole protocol section on sending mice
reports back and forth between host and client. Mice and VTxxx style text mode
screens mix poorly in practice and the results hardly justify the program
complexity, memory, and user docs explanations. If you have a mouse program
which does all this for you then that's great.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 15:26:14 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23590
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:54:14 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25449
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:54:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14 beta-5 locks up PC
Date: 16 Oct 94 20:26:14 EST
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I seem to be having a problem with MSK 3.14 beta 5 locking up my pc
to the point where I have to power it down (Ctrl-Alt-Del ignored).
This occurs when my dialup host sends an ANSI home cursor/clear screen.
PC: Packard-Bell 386-sx
Modem: Practical Peripherals PM144MT II.
Dos: Novell Dos 7.0

By setting Debug Session, I can caputure the sequences without the
lockup.  The offending sequences seem to be:
^[[H^[[2J

This happens both on dialin to a unix machine, and a Dec Terminal server.
MSK 3.13 does not have this problem.
This also happened in 3.14 beta-3.

Am I really doing something strange (other than using Novell 7.0)?

Gerry Belanger
Work email: [e-mail].


From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 00:49:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24371
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:09:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26606
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:09:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!braver
From: [e-mail] (Michael Braverman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem
Date: 17 Oct 1994 00:49:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 91
Message-Id: <37shms$[e-mail]>
References: <37hm8c$[e-mail]> <37hqf9$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnolia.cs.berkeley.edu
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:759 comp.dcom.modems:68285
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37hqf9$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <37hm8c$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Michael Braverman) writes:
>> I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal
>> AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem.  I am surprised by this since the
>> Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport
>> specific dialing script...
>>
>  Stuff from Frank deleted...

I'm following up to this newsgroup since this may be of general interest. If
this problem is isolated to my machine/modem I apologize for wasting your
time.

I tried the replacement DATAPORT.SCR supplied in Frank's response to my
initial query, but without luck.  I have identified two problems with
the script (which, by the way, are essentially the same two types of
problems that I had with the original DATAPORT script).

Problem 1:

After a bit of experimentation I have isolated the first problem to the
following sequence of commands (the line numbers are just added for
reference, and I have stripped out some of the comments in the script):

     1    hangup        ; Begin by dropping DTR
     2    pause 1        ; for one second
     3    set speed 57600    ; If computer can be set to 57600 bps, use it.
     4    if fail set speed 38400    ; If not, use 38400.
     5      echo Configuring AT&T DataPort on \v(line).
     6    :INIT
     7     output ATQ0V1\13 ; Enable word result codes
     8     chkok {Can't get modem's attention}

The script always gives the error message "Can't get modem's attention".
I put "show comm" commands before the hangup in line 1 and after the pause
in line 2 and found out that before the hangup, DSR is ON and CTS is ON,
but after the pause, DSR and CTS are both off.  If I add a  "wait 5 DSR"
before the "output" in line 7, then the script continues on without
difficulty past the error check in line 8.  Question:   What exactly is
Kermit doing to "hangup" the modem that the DSR is being held low this long?
It is surprising that it is going off at all since the modem, by default,
is set as AT&SO, which supposed forces DSR to always be ON (moreover, I
used the modems AT&V0 command to verify that it was in this FORCED ON
setting).

Problem 2:

Later in the script we have the following lines:

    1    output AAAT E1 X6 &C1 &D2 &Q0 S84=0\13
    2    chkok {Can't initialize modem}
    3    output AT \92Q3\13    ; RTS/CTS hardware flow control
    4    chkok {Can't enable RTS/CTS}    ; On modem
    5    wait 5 cts
    6    if fail {Modem is not asserting CTS!}
    7     set flow rts/cts    ; And in Kermit too, but only now
    8    output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13 ; Modulation = ...
    9    chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback}

Everything is fine until line 9, which always gives the error message
"Can't enable modulation fallback".  The problem seems to stem from
command in line 7 to enable flow control.  If I put a "show comm" after
line 7, kermit claims that both DSR and CTS are ON, so that's not the
problem.  If I put a "pause 5" after line 7 or if I comment out line
7 altogether, then the rest of the script continues on without any
difficulty.  Thus, there seems to be some sort of timing problem with the
sending of an AT command to the modem directly after enabling Kermit's
hardware flow control.

General Comments:

I would like to thank everyone who earlier sent suggestions about my
modem/kermit woes.  A popular suggestion was to add a line like:
    set output pacing 200
at the beginning of the script.  Unfortunately, this was of no help
(I even set the delay as high as 400) in either the original script
or the newer one.

At this point, I have the script working by adding the waits and
pauses mentioned above, but I'd still like to hear from anyone with
an Internal Dataport who has or doesn't have these types of difficulties
so I would be able to confirm whether this is a hardware problem with
the modem problem or just some strange problem with kermit and/or my
computer.

Thanks again for the help,

Michael Braverman
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 01:03:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25399
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:30:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28162
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:30:30 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!world!zilker.net!icus!wiz.com!marc
From: [e-mail] (Marc Wiz)
Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out???
Distribution: na
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Wizywyg Software
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 01:03:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 24
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17184 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4057 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:760
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Ted Mittelstaedt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>David Scholten <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this.  But I
>>am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial
>>out from my BSDI 1.1 based box.  The problems are similar in nature:
>>
>
>If you figure out how to make UUCP and cu/kermit/etc share the same port
>please tell me!  :-)

Patches are available for Taylor 1.05 to use BSDI's bidirectional
port locking mechanism.

I have Taylor 1.05 running on my BSDI box with no problem.

Now if only I can dig up the patches.

Marc
--
Marc
[e-mail]
Yes, that really is my last name.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 13:07:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27427
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 22:15:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01492
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 22:15:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14 beta, expanded memory notes
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 19:07:29 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 35
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    A note to beta testers of MS-DOS Kermit v3.14.
    I've received a number of comments about hangups when entering
terminal emulation mode or rolling back a screen. So far as I can
ascertain almost all of them are associated with using expanded memory
to hold rollback screens. That's expanded (paged stuff) not extended.
    By default MSK 3.14 uses expanded memory if it is available;
3.13 used the other default.
    It is vital that the expanded memory page frame, all 64KB of it,
be located where it will not interfere with other memory usage. The
way to do that is tell your memory manager where to place it, usually
with a frame=<segment> command line option. Don't put it in video memory,
seg A000-BFFF. Don't assume the manager will pick a safe spot. Windows
users must do the same, no matter what you said at DOS level, by lines
such as these in system.ini [386Enh]:

EMMPageFrame=EC00            <<< expanded mem page frame
EMMExclude=C000-C007                    <<< protecting stuff from managers
EMMExclude=CE00-CFFF
EMMExclude=A000-BFFF

    Notice the specific memory exclusions to protect things, such as
lan adapter boards with shared memory.
    Microsoft's MSD or Quarterdeck's MFT can show memory layout.
    To see if expanded memory is your problem give the Kermit command
SET TERM EXPANDED OFF before starting a Connect mode session. The rollback
buffers will then be located in conventional 640K memory (at 4KB per screen).
    We have at least one case on record where a memory manager offered
expanded memory services but did not offer a page frame for it. That's rather
silly. Beta-6 will check for this case and decline to use expanded memory
if it occurs.
    Memory management is the user's responsibility, and some practice
is needed to get the most from it. I don't have the time to diagnose mem
managers by remote control, so I wish you luck with the chore.
    Thanks,
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 18:05:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29371
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 23:08:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05100
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 23:08:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta-5 locks up PC
Date: 16 Oct 94 23:05:46 EST
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> I seem to be having a problem with MSK 3.14 beta 5 locking up my pc
> to the point where I have to power it down (Ctrl-Alt-Del ignored).
> This occurs when my dialup host sends an ANSI home cursor/clear screen.

After reading jrd's post on expanded memory, I tried
SET TERM EXPANDED OFF
and I no longer lock up.

Gerry Belanger


From [e-mail] Sun Oct 16 15:38:30 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02554
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:13:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09688
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:13:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Oct 94 21:38:30 MDT
References: <37hm8c$[e-mail]> <37hqf9$[e-mail]> <37shms$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 59
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37shms$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Braverman) writes:
> In article <37hqf9$[e-mail]>,
> Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>In article <37hm8c$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>>(Michael Braverman) writes:
>>> I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal
>>> AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem.  I am surprised by this since the
>>> Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport
>>> specific dialing script...
>>>
>>  Stuff from Frank deleted...
>
> I'm following up to this newsgroup since this may be of general interest. If
> this problem is isolated to my machine/modem I apologize for wasting your
> time.
>
> I tried the replacement DATAPORT.SCR supplied in Frank's response to my
> initial query, but without luck.  I have identified two problems with
> the script (which, by the way, are essentially the same two types of
> problems that I had with the original DATAPORT script).
>
> Problem 1:
>
> After a bit of experimentation I have isolated the first problem to the
> following sequence of commands (the line numbers are just added for
> reference, and I have stripped out some of the comments in the script):
>
>      1    hangup        ; Begin by dropping DTR
>      2    pause 1        ; for one second
>      3    set speed 57600    ; If computer can be set to 57600 bps, use it.
>      4    if fail set speed 38400    ; If not, use 38400.
>      5      echo Configuring AT&T DataPort on \v(line).
>      6    :INIT
>      7     output ATQ0V1\13 ; Enable word result codes
>      8     chkok {Can't get modem's attention}
>
> The script always gives the error message "Can't get modem's attention".
> I put "show comm" commands before the hangup in line 1 and after the pause
> in line 2 and found out that before the hangup, DSR is ON and CTS is ON,
> but after the pause, DSR and CTS are both off.  If I add a  "wait 5 DSR"
> before the "output" in line 7, then the script continues on without
> difficulty past the error check in line 8.
    Your modem is responsible for driving DSR and CTS to the computer.

>                          Question:   What exactly is
> Kermit doing to "hangup" the modem that the DSR is being held low this long?
> It is surprising that it is going off at all since the modem, by default,
> is set as AT&SO, which supposed forces DSR to always be ON (moreover, I
> used the modems AT&V0 command to verify that it was in this FORCED ON
> setting).
    Hangup drops DTR. To ensure that the port is accessible it may have
to first fire up the port. It then drops DTR and shuts down the port. Query
commands can reinitialize the port while obtaining information.
    A guess on all of this is your particular modem may really want
considerable delays between these tramautic operations. To try to help
some within Kermit I did more adjustments to the serial port startup code
to treat the system as gently as I can (while applying the 2x4 needed by
some mules^H^H^H^H^Hmodems); this will appear in beta-6 Monday.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 04:16:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02689
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:18:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10257
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:18:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856
From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Date: 17 Oct 1994 04:16:35 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Lines: 57
Message-Id: <37str3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <37pqqv$[e-mail]> <37qd65$[e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:

>In article <37qd65$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>
>> In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:
>>
>>>In article <37pqqv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>>>
>>>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might
>>>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard,
>>>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer?
>>>--------
>>>    Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100
>>>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are
>>>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the
>>>sources appear at release time.
>>>    Joe D.
>>>
>>
>> Joe,
>>  You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking
>>  if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether
>>  there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would
>>  support that version of FOSSIL that was available.
>>
>>  For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the
>>  Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places
>>  where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting
>>  programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let
>>  the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL.
>>
>>  So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen
>>  and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL.
>--------
>    Ok, now I understand your request. The answer is no this time too,
>but not a "huff and puff" no. The reason is it would very heavily chop up
>the program and lose large amounts of functionality. Fossil does not come
>even close to providing the interfaces needed and used by Kermit.
>        Z100 Kermit does work. Thus I fail to see good reasons for drastic
>program changes just to run on a Z100. If I've still missed the point then
>please let me know.
>    Joe D.
>

I have to agree with you as far as the Z100 goes. However, you don't seem
cognizent of the fact that the FOSSIL BIOS was created to smooth out
the differences between non-PC compatible MSDOS machines in the FIDONET
communication arena. You wouldn't benefit just the Z100 with such
a project. However, I don't urge you to make this your top priority
as I feel your machine specific Kermits would be far better as you
stated with the Z100.

I really just wanted to know how complete your FOSSIL support was and you
have answered the question.

Thank you.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 09:15:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14605
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 05:18:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21399
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 05:17:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit?
Date: 17 Oct 1994 09:15:11 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 30
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37tfav$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu
X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi,

  What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit?
By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond
with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b'
represents the button and `x', `y' represent the position.  I do not expect
drag informations, etc...  This seems to be something pretty easy to
implement for MAC-Kermit since you already have the option of converting
mouse clicks into cursor movement escape sequences.  If this is not possible
with MS-Kermit, is there a TSR that will shove the appropriate escape
sequences into the input buffer so MS-Kermit will think the user typed it?

  The reason I am asking about this is that I am developing a Text mode
windowing system.  Currently it works with the mouse on my Linux console
using the `selection' program which is able to respnd with button press
information.  I would sure like to see MS-Kermit support this as well. In
addition, the latest version of my JED editor supports the mouse on
character cell terminals in this manner and I would like to recommend kermit
for this.

Thanks,
--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: [e-mail]
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#


From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 14:32:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17313
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 06:33:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24135
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 06:33:41 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.uni-c.dk!imada!ravn
From: [e-mail] (Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen)
Subject: MS-KERMIT (VT320) termcap entry for unix -- what is it?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: verdi
Organization: Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University, Denmark
Distribution: comp
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:32:00 GMT
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am using MS-Kermit 3.13 and is very pleased with it.  I would very
much like to have the best usage of the VT320 capabilites, but have so
far failed to find any termcaps with either the zip file I retreived
last year, or at kermit.columbia.edu or in our own /etc/termcap

Does anybody have a pointer to a good termcap entry for kermit?

Thanks in advance.
--
  Thorbjxrn Ravn Andersen        "...and...Tubular Bells!"
  [e-mail]
  <http://www.imada.ou.dk/~ravn>

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 12:50:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20406
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:16:36 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02520
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:16:33 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
References: <[e-mail]> <37rnie$[e-mail]> <37s79p$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:50:31 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 51
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37s79p$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Pat Fogarty) writes:
>In article <37rnie$[e-mail]>,
>Yeechang Lee <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, Binh Anson
>><[e-mail]> wrote:
>>|I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading
>>|news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as
>>|[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the
>>|top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling.
>>
>>I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5
>>on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET
>>SPEED 57600.  And yes, I'm using rts/cts.  My XT, apparently, just isn't
>>fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow
>>control.  I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data
>>overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k.  My solution?  SET SPEED 19200.
>>It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer,
>>and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k.
>
>
>
>I am running a 286/12 MHz laptop and ran into the same problem when I
>bought a 14.4 Hayes. Did all the tests and tried all the recommended
>fixes. SET SPEED 19200 was all it took. Older machines WILL NOT work at
>higher port speeds no matter what UART they have.
>
>I've had 3.13 report transfers as high as 2200 cps on uncompressed text,
>even at the slow port speed, though 1500-1600 is more normal with my
>local provider.
>
>
>Your mileage may vary........
>
>
>
>Pat

I have a 286/16 at home (I'll be upgrading to a Tandy 1000 RLX, which is
a 286/10, but FAR more dependable than this generic clone which always
doesn't like working right :-> )

My USR 14.4 works fantastic set at 38400, but tends to lose characters at
57600.  One thing ALWAYS to remember with faster modems (which I've
learned after paying attention to settings!) is:

Use RTS/CTS if your faster modem supports it!!!  XON/XOFF will cause you
to lose chunks of text!  And you may not notice it when scanning quickly
through news, not paying much attention!

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 14:09:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24513
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:09:11 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06350
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:09:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 17 Oct 1994 14:09:00 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 36
Message-Id: <37u0ht$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> One thing to remember is that hardware flow control is assymetric. While
> the modem can hold off the computer, the computer has no way to signal the
> modem that it cannot accept data. As near as I can figure, the RS-232
> guys thought that computers would _always_ be fast enough to take the data.
>
Hardware flow control as we know it today is, indeed, not described in
RS-232-C, which dates from the 1960s.  However, there have been (I think)
two later revisions: D and E.  I don't have a copy of the newer one(s)
handy, but I believe that we now have separate definitions for RTS and CTS
depending on whether we have a full-duplex or half-duplex connection.

In common usage today, on full-duplex connections, RTS is a signal from the
computer (DTE) to the modem (DCE) saying "I am ready to receive".  In fact,
I think that RTS is now called RTR (Ready to Receive) in this context.  This
is backwards from its original definition "Request to Send".  CTS is a
signal from the modem to the computer saying "Clear to Send", i.e. "I am
ready to receive".

I'm not certain about the exact progression of events, but I imagine that
it became clear to modem manufacturers as soon as error-correcting modems
hit the streets that these modems could not be used effectively without
wire-level flow control signals in BOTH directions, and I think that practice
preceded the standard.  As a side note, in the "early days" of hardware
flow control, we had some manufacturers using different wires; thus you
will occasionally see references to DTR/CD, DTR/CTS, etc.

But to add confusion, even in places where bidirectional, RTS/CTS, "hardware"
flow control is indicated, it is not always implemented correctly.  For
example, certain UNIX terminal device drivers only implement it in one
direction; similarly for certain models of terminal servers.

Modern modems, however, *should* implement it bidirectionally, and so does
MS-DOS Kermit.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 02:18:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05091
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:27:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29835
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:27:41 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Oct 94 08:18:55 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <37pqqv$[e-mail]> <37qd65$[e-mail] <37str3$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 67
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37str3$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>
> In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:
>
>>In article <37qd65$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>>
>>> In a previous article, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) says:
>>>
>>>>In article <37pqqv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might
>>>>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard,
>>>>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer?
>>>>--------
>>>>    Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100
>>>>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are
>>>>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the
>>>>sources appear at release time.
>>>>    Joe D.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>>  You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking
>>>  if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether
>>>  there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would
>>>  support that version of FOSSIL that was available.
>>>
>>>  For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the
>>>  Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places
>>>  where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting
>>>  programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let
>>>  the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL.
>>>
>>>  So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen
>>>  and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL.
>>--------
>>    Ok, now I understand your request. The answer is no this time too,
>>but not a "huff and puff" no. The reason is it would very heavily chop up
>>the program and lose large amounts of functionality. Fossil does not come
>>even close to providing the interfaces needed and used by Kermit.
>>        Z100 Kermit does work. Thus I fail to see good reasons for drastic
>>program changes just to run on a Z100. If I've still missed the point then
>>please let me know.
>>    Joe D.
>>
>
> I have to agree with you as far as the Z100 goes. However, you don't seem
> cognizent of the fact that the FOSSIL BIOS was created to smooth out
> the differences between non-PC compatible MSDOS machines in the FIDONET
> communication arena. You wouldn't benefit just the Z100 with such
> a project. However, I don't urge you to make this your top priority
> as I feel your machine specific Kermits would be far better as you
> stated with the Z100.
>
> I really just wanted to know how complete your FOSSIL support was and you
> have answered the question.
>
> Thank you.
---------------
    You are correct, I certainly don't realize what the FIDONET
situation is with non-PC compatibles etc. Maybe you could put some
realistic numbers in here. As far as using Fossil as a PC Bios replacement
that is unrealistic, not to mention that MSK is not restrained to the
PC Bios. What would be better is for volunteers to write the code to
run MSK on the host machine directly.
    Please tell us more.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 13:16:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09042
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:16:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04637
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:16:09 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!RWR-PHYSIOL.MED.UPENN.EDU!RATZLAFF
From: [e-mail] (Ron Ratzlaff)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through"
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:32:19
Organization: Dep't Physiol., University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 59
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <37kb7t$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: rwr-physiol.med.upenn.edu
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37kb7t$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
>Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through"
>Date: 13 Oct 1994 22:10:05 GMT

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Ron Ratzlaff) writes:
>> I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX.  I have
>> Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions.  The problem
>> is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to
>> make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters
>> are missing from the resulting print out.  There appears to be
>> something wrong in the handshake somewhere.  It is especially noticeable
>> when I'm trying to make a plot.
>>
>What kind of printer is it?  Is it a serial or parallel printer?  Is it
>a graphics printer?

>Parallel printers should not lose characters.  It is possible, however,
>that Kermit itself is losing incoming characters if an effective means
>of flow control (RTS/CTS or Xon/Xoff) is not enabled.  The latter is
>much better, but you still have to worry about what happens on the VMS
>system, which does not support Xon/Xoff.  What is the remote modem
>connected to?  A VAX port?  A LAT box?  Some other kind of terminal
>server?

>Since you say you are making plots, maybe you have some kind of graphics
>printer driver installed?

>As you can see, there are many variables here.  But in general the key is
>to have the most effective possible means of flow control enabled at EVERY
>POINT along the communication path: the remote mode, the port/device/driver
>the remote modem is connected to; the local modem, the PC's serial port,
>the printer port, the printer itself, and even the connection between the
>two modems (this happens automatically if it is an error-corrected
>connection).  And VMS itself (SET TERMINAL /HOSTSYNC /TTSYNC).

>As you can also see, most of these items are outside of Kermit's control.

>Who said data communication was easy?

>- Frank


Frank,

I am not connected via any kind of serial interface - not modem (not SLIP)
and not a direct serial line.  The connection is entirely via the Ethernet
here at my institution.  The reason I use Kermit is because I can download
files using the Kermit protocol while maintaining my ethernet (TCP/IP)
connection.  Its very handy because most mainframes around here only support
Kermit for file transfers.

I agree, the problem may be outside of Kermit's control but I thought maybe I
was doing something wrong.  Will try to speak to the VAX gurus about it.

Thanks for your suggestions.....

Ron

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 03:44:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20786
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:47:11 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17832
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:47:10 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Oct 94 09:44:59 MDT
References: <37tfav$[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 29
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37tfav$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Hi,
>
>   What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit?
> By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond
> with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b'
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- this not a
proper Control Sequence by ANSI standards and thus becomes very difficult
to parse properly in normal environments.

> represents the button and `x', `y' represent the position.  I do not expect
> drag informations, etc...  This seems to be something pretty easy to
> implement for MAC-Kermit since you already have the option of converting
> mouse clicks into cursor movement escape sequences.  If this is not possible
> with MS-Kermit, is there a TSR that will shove the appropriate escape
> sequences into the input buffer so MS-Kermit will think the user typed it?

    There is much more to this problem. We cannot have a mouse sending
bytes to the host just because a user bumped it or played with it while
waiting etc. That would be a disaster. Thus the host must request information
from the client and the two cooperate according to a set of rules. So far
there are almost no VTxxx applications built to talk with a DEC "locator"
(on VT330/340's) and none in text mode that I know of (ReGIS yes, text no).
    MS-DOS Kermit does support mice in graphics modes (Tektronix, Data
General) but upon request of the host and obeying the rules for information
exchange between them.
    I suggest you look at various Mouse programs (MS used to distribute
the programs to construct them, easy stuff) which drive the keyboard buffer.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 20:35:25 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24883
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 16:35:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22488
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 16:35:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit?
Date: 17 Oct 1994 20:35:25 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 76
Message-Id: <37un6d$[e-mail]>
References: <37tfav$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <37tfav$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> Hi,
>>
>>   What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit?
>> By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond
>> with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b'
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- this not a
>proper Control Sequence by ANSI standards and thus becomes very difficult
>to parse properly in normal environments.
>
>> represents the button and `x', `y' represent the position.  I do not expect
>> drag informations, etc...  This seems to be something pretty easy to
>> implement for MAC-Kermit since you already have the option of converting
>> mouse clicks into cursor movement escape sequences.  If this is not possible
>> with MS-Kermit, is there a TSR that will shove the appropriate escape
>> sequences into the input buffer so MS-Kermit will think the user typed it?
>
>    There is much more to this problem. We cannot have a mouse sending
>bytes to the host just because a user bumped it or played with it while
>waiting etc. That would be a disaster. Thus the host must request information
>from the client and the two cooperate according to a set of rules. So far
>there are almost no VTxxx applications built to talk with a DEC "locator"
>(on VT330/340's) and none in text mode that I know of (ReGIS yes, text no).
>    MS-DOS Kermit does support mice in graphics modes (Tektronix, Data
>General) but upon request of the host and obeying the rules for information
>exchange between them.
>    I suggest you look at various Mouse programs (MS used to distribute
>the programs to construct them, easy stuff) which drive the keyboard buffer.
>    Joe D.

OS/2 C-Kermit supports mouse actions while in terminal mode.  The problem
with accidental mouse events being sent are handled in two ways:
(1) SET TERMINAL MOUSE {ON,OFF}
(2) Only supporting double click mouse actions

These were deemed sufficient to prevent accidental transmissions.

OS/2 C-Kermit supports four functions:

(1) Cursor positioning using Arrow key equivalents
(2) Selection with copy direct to host
(3) Selection with copy to system clipboard
(4) Paste from system clipboard

X-term mouse support was not implemented because it is particular to
applications written to run in an X-term session, not under a standard
VTxxx terminal.  And because, implementing the additional escape
sequences could very well break host systems which do not understand
them and/or misinterpret them as something else entirely.

My eventual goal though is to define Kermit Kverbs that represent each
type of mouse event and allow the user to redefine their meanings.
This is a long way down on my list of priorities.  Just a neat idea
that is floating around in my head.

x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
*NEW* OS/2 version available: ftp kermit.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 18:47:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03689
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:47:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04100
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:47:19 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm!news.tamu.edu!LLF.TAMU.EDU!l-field
From: [e-mail] (Larry Field)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: ** Help...Looking for ASC II key equivalents for mainframe keys **
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:03:21
Organization: BPP Operations Center
Lines: 8
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: llf.tamu.edu
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm looking for a chart that shows the asc ii key equivalents for an ibm
mainframe keys.  For instance, "esc+1" is PF1.  Does anyone have a chart like
this that lists all the keys?

Thanks,

Larry Field


From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 19:27:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04684
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:59:52 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04920
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:59:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!ctp.org!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Larry Powell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Telnet to Columbia
Date: 17 Oct 1994 12:27:11 -0700
Organization: California Technology Project of The Calif State Univ
Lines: 6
Message-Id: <37uj6f$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: eis.calstate.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

  Is there anyway we can telnet to kermit.columbia.edu (or an equivalent)
so that we can download kermit files using kermit? (Rather than ftp?)

--
--Larry Powell    [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 20:37:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04836
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:01:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05044
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:01:36 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit?
References: <37tfav$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:37:02 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>In article <37tfav$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> Hi,
>>
>>   What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit?
>> By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond
>> with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b'
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- this not a
>proper Control Sequence by ANSI standards and thus becomes very difficult
>to parse properly in normal environments.

There is a program (and I'm looking for my copy without success at the
moment - if anyone has it, I'm interested!) that will do the following:

Press the left mouse button, and it generates an CR/LF ("Enter" key).
Press the right mouse button, and it generated an "Esc" sequence.
Move the mouse upwards, generates the up arrow slowly, etc.

While this isn't as useful in unix/VMS environments (although it would be
a blast in reading news/e-mail online :-> ), for BBS environments, it is
a help.

Anyone know of programs that do this that are public domain?

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 23:03:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04973
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:03:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05205
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:03:48 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Telnet to Columbia
Date: 17 Oct 1994 23:03:46 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <37uvsi$[e-mail]>
References: <37uj6f$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37uj6f$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Larry
Powell) writes:
>   Is there anyway we can telnet to kermit.columbia.edu (or an equivalent)
> so that we can download kermit files using kermit? (Rather than ftp?)
>
It would seem logical, wouldn't it?  But currently, no.  A lot of development
is required for this; it's on the long list of things to do.

- Frank
x
x

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 23:05:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05106
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:05:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05462
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:05:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: ** Help...Looking for ASC II key equivalents for mainframe keys **
Date: 17 Oct 1994 23:05:24 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <37uvvk$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Larry Field)
writes:
> I'm looking for a chart that shows the asc ii key equivalents for an ibm
> mainframe keys.  For instance, "esc+1" is PF1.  Does anyone have a chart ]
> like this that lists all the keys?
>
Any such chart would be totally site dependent.  It depends on the
configuration (and make and model and version) of your 3270 emulation
front end and/or software.  You'll have to see your local IBM mainframe
communications people about this.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 01:16:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12993
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 21:55:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17395
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 21:55:33 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!dold.a2i!dold
From: Clarence Dold <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: jive.rahul.net
Nntp-Posting-User: dold
Organization: a2i network
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <37tfav$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:16:15 GMT
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:

:   What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit?
: By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond

I don't use it currently, but I used to use Grabtext to cut-and-paste
in MSKermit and on DOS screens.

Available from OAK.Oakland.EDU 141.210.10.117

Directory SimTel/msdos/screen/
grbtxt12.zip  B    9220  920826  Grab screen text, cut & paste w/mouse to kybd.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - [e-mail]
                - Pope Valley & Napa CA.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 11:55:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18204
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:46:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25136
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:46:03 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 17 Oct 1994 21:25:17 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <37ton5$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:


: How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
: I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with
: errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP.
: Any ideas?
: TIA.
: Ian Stirling.
: send mail either to [e-mail],

OK, I'd use Kermit at the end you are typing from, and use its inbuilt telnet
to connect to the machine that you dial out from to a remote bbs.

Then provided you don't overload the intervening links you can use kermit
over multiple IP and serial links.


--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 03:48:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18382
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:48:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25269
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:48:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!merhaba.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Telnet to Columbia
Date: 18 Oct 1994 03:48:53 GMT
Organization: Trilateralist Commission, Columbia University chapter
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <37vgj5$[e-mail]>
References: <37uj6f$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: merhaba.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37uj6f$[e-mail]>,
Larry Powell <[e-mail]> wrote:
|  Is there anyway we can telnet to kermit.columbia.edu (or an equivalent)
|so that we can download kermit files using kermit? (Rather than ftp?)

telnet grind.isca.uiowa.edu offers this very feature; they have a mirror of
wuarchive.wustl.edu and some other stuff.  Perhaps someone will upload the
latest betas to it.
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o a New Yorker bred, if not born
     Columbia University/New York City \_O_/ Nevada Las Vegas Mission 92-94

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 04:44:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23701
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:01:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00566
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:01:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!loghost.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!wp-sp.nba.trw.com!ns1.nba.trw.com!gumby.dsd.TRW.COM!jsb
From: [e-mail] (John Bien)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Does "Set carrier auto" in ckermit 5A(189) work?
Date: 18 Oct 1994 04:44:41 GMT
Organization: TRW Space & Electronics Group
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <37vjrp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: pokey.sp.trw.com
Keywords: carrier detect Unix
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm running ckermit 5A(189) on a Sun running 4.1.3.  I can't figure
if this is a bug - or I'm not reading the documentation correctly.

It seems that if "carrier" is set to "auto" the following should happen:
    - Remote system hangs up (and carrier detect goes down)
    - I should automatically return to the kermit prompt (exit Connect)

However - "set carrier" doesn't seem to have any affect.
Carrier is working, as "show modem-signals" seems to indicate.
Before I call "DIAL", CD shows as Off.  After the dial, and
during the connect, CD shows as "On".  Then, after the modem
returns "NO CARRIER", I can escape back and see CD is set to "Off"
again.

What I'm looking to do is not have our operators deal with
the C-Kermit prompt at all.  I'd like to call up kermit with
an immediate Dial and Connect, and when the remote system
disconnects, automatically exit kermit (no ^\c or ^\q).

Any ideas?  Does "set carrier" work for anybody else?

Thanks for any info,
-John

    John Bien                 [phone]
    TRW Space and Electronics Group, Communications services
    [e-mail]            (Internet)

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 05:34:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24980
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:36:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02232
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:36:18 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit?
Date: 18 Oct 1994 05:34:00 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 84
Message-Id: <37vmo8$[e-mail]>
References: <37tfav$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu
X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, Clarence Dold <[e-mail]> writes:
 : [e-mail] wrote:
 :
 : :   What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit?
 : : By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond
 :
 : I don't use it currently, but I used to use Grabtext to cut-and-paste
 : in MSKermit and on DOS screens.

I am not really interested in cut/paste functionality.  In fact, using
something like what you describe is not as flexible as what I have in mind.
The latest version of `selection' for Linux implements what I would like to
see in MS-Kermit or, as a TSR.  I am sure that someone familiar with TSR
could write something like this in half an hour, unfortunately, I do not
have the expertise.

To give you an idea how flexible and simple this idea is, consider what I
have done using selection.  The situation is this:  right now I am at home
running Linux in text (non-X) mode.  I have selection running in the
background monitering the mouse (the TSR would do this).  In the foreground
I am running C-Kermit connected through the phone line to
amy.tch.harvard.ed.  From there I am telnetted to a machine at Ohio State.
On that machine, I am usig my JED editor to compse this message.

Now, I can move the mouse somewhere in the buffer and click on it.  When I
do so, it sends 6 characters:  ESC [ M b x y  to indicate the row/column of
the mouse click and which button was clicked.   When I click with the left
mouse button, the cursor goes to the position of the mouse--- even if it has
to switch buffers/windows to get there.  Now, if I click on the status line,
I can cause the window to split, be deleted, or switch to the next buffer
depending on the mouse button (3 buttons).  In addition, the middle button
is configured to paste, the right to delete text, etc...

How do I do this?  Simple. The editor, like emacs, is programmable.  I have
the following keybindings defined:

setkey ("left_button_down", "\e[M ");
setkey ("middle_button_down", "\e[M!");
setkey ("right_button_down", "\e[M\"");

This effectively binds the three mouse buttons to functions.  The functions
decode the x, y coordinates of the mouse point, e.g.,

define middle_button_down ()
{
   variable use_status, x, y, n;

   variable x = getkey () - ' ';   % (x,y) coordinates offset from (32,32)
   variable y = getkey () - ' ';

   (use_status, n, y, x) = whereis_mouse (x, y);

   loop (n) otherwindow ();
   if (use_status)
     {
    splitwindow ();
    return;
     }

   if (markp ())
     {
    call ("copy_region");
    message ("Region copied.");
    return;
     }

   goto_line (y);
   goto_column (x);
   call ("yank");
}


Again, all this requires is a TSR that shoves ESC [ M m x y into the input
buffer.  Does anyone know where to get such a beast?

--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: [e-mail]
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#


From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 12:58:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07400
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:58:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18462
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:58:56 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Does "Set carrier auto" in ckermit 5A(189) work?
Date: 18 Oct 1994 12:58:53 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <380gqd$[e-mail]>
References: <37vjrp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37vjrp$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Bien)
writes:
> I'm running ckermit 5A(189) on a Sun running 4.1.3.  I can't figure
> if this is a bug - or I'm not reading the documentation correctly.
>
> It seems that if "carrier" is set to "auto" the following should happen:
>     - Remote system hangs up (and carrier detect goes down)
>     - I should automatically return to the kermit prompt (exit Connect)
>
The proper operation of SET CARRIER ON or AUTO depends on the underlying
operating system.  If the device can be conditioned so that a read() returns
an error if carrier drops, then this feature will work, otherwise it won't.
In general, it works on UNIX systems whose terminal driver semantics follow
the System V model, and tends not to work on BSD-based systems like SunOS.
(Or, to put it another way, it should start working as you want when you
"upgrade to Solaris" :-)

There is a lot of material about this in the ckuker.bwr file, but perhaps
it needs to be stated up front a bit more explicitly.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 16:59:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24939
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:08:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10121
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:08:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!caip.rutgers.edu!not-for-mail
From: @
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: File sizes and Kermit
Date: 18 Oct 1994 12:59:28 -0400
Organization: @
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <380utg$[e-mail]>
References: <36uqd8$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: caip.rutgers.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
=     True enough, but in brief:  In text files, Unix uses line feed (LF)
=     characters to end lines, DOS uses carriage return (CR) and LF. When
=     in text mode (set file type text), Kermit translates from Unix (LF)
=     to DOS (CR/LF), which means that for each new line, your DOS file
=     will be one character larger than your Unix file.

Therefore, the size in byts of a well sent textfile is the sum of the line
and character counts givven by "wc"; "wc -cl"

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 15:14:05 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04248
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:14:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21349
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:14:03 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!LAN.ASC.UPENN.EDU!stimpe
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Timperio)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Problem using Kermit 3.10...
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 14:30:40
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: lan.asc.upenn.edu
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Help!  I've connected two modems to my ancient 8088 and am having a hard time
getting Kermit 3.10 to work.  The modems are both 2400 baud, both work on a
486 a friend has.  On my machine, Kermit boots fine.  When I try to send
commands to the modem, they come across okay and I see the modem responding.
It will dial my school's modem pool and even connect, but no characters are
visible on the screen (i.e. no CONNECT message, no ATDT, nothing, although the
keyboard commands are registering).  If I set the duplex to half, then I can
see what I'm typing up until there is a connection.  Otherwise, there's no
change.

This copy of Kermit was used on a 286 and a 486 as it's currently configured.
The truly odd thing is that _one_ time when I entered Kermit, everything
worked fine (was able to dial and connect and everything came across on the
screen)but then didn't the next time.

Does this sound like a software setting to anyone?  Is there a Kermit setting
that I'm not thinking of?  I'm very interested in using Kermit because it
supports an .ini file for our school to use software and because it runs swell
on older computers.

Thanks!
Tom


From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 20:16:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14434
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:14:10 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02313
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:14:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Wayne S. Mery)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: beta 3.14 and printing
Date: 18 Oct 1994 16:16:24 -0400
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <381aeo$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

The 3.14 kermit.upd file states:

 . Revised printer support for better interoperation with Novell CAPTURE


I'd like more information on what was improved.  Also, does the
improvement only apply to Novell or to does it apply equally to
direct attached printers?
--

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Wayne S. Mery        Systems Programmer  Lehigh University Computing Ctr
([e-mail])    [phone]      8B E. Packer Ave  Bethlehem PA

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 21:36:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16241
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:36:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04356
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:36:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problem using Kermit 3.10...
Date: 18 Oct 1994 21:36:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <381f46$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas
Timperio) writes:
> Help!  I've connected two modems to my ancient 8088 and am having a hard
> time getting Kermit 3.10 to work.  The modems are both 2400 baud, both
> work on a 486 a friend has.  On my machine, Kermit boots fine.  When I
> try to send commands to the modem, they come across okay and I see the
> modem responding.  It will dial my school's modem pool and even connect,
> but no characters are visible on the screen (i.e. no CONNECT message, no
> ATDT, nothing, although the keyboard commands are registering).
>
This is the classic symptom of an interrupt conflict.

You should get the latest version of MS-DOS Kermit, which is 3.14 Beta.
Lest you are worried about the increased size of the newer version over
3.10, version 3.14 also comes in a "light" version (lacking networking
and graphics terminal emulation) that should work just fine even an a
small-memory PC or XT.

Included in the distribution is a file called KERMIT.BWR, which includes
a detailed discussion of interrupt conflicts and how to correct them.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary
mode, file mstibm.zip.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 17 20:25:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16875
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:43:52 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05035
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:43:51 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!psinntp!psinntp!news.jf.intel.com!ornews.intel.com!ssd.intel.com!uunet!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!dartvax.dartmouth.edu!axsys!rw
From: [e-mail] (Randy Witlicki)
Subject: Xircom PCMCIA and MS-DOS Kermit woes
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dover Systems
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:25:00 GMT
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


  Has anyone out here managed to get a Xircom PCMCIA modem
(I am trying to configure the Creditcard Ethernet+Modem unit on
a Zenith Z-Star Laptop) to successfully use MS-DOS Kermit Version 3.13 ?
  I keep getting the message:
    ?Warning: unknown hardware for port. Using Bios for BIOS3
  This is after various invocations of the Xircom CEMCFG, CMDRIVE,
XEMREDIR, and so on programs in various combinations and also giving
port and irq with a   set COM3  command in Kermit.
  I am able to get the Windows Terminal program to talk happily
over COM3 after running the Xircom PCMCIA setup programs, so maybe Kermit
has a    set hardware don't-be-clever    command that I haven't found?
  The purpose of this whole exercise is to have Kermit take a script
as part of a batch file to log someone in to a terminal server so
Novell LanWorkPlace can make a ppp connection.

 Thanks in advance for any help and sage advice.

- Randy Witlicki   [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 21:18:30 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17800
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:55:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05874
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:55:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn
From: [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: exit causes reboot
Date: 18 Oct 1994 21:18:30 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Lines: 10
Message-Id: <381e36$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


When I exit the kermit beta it totally reboots.....

Also kermit beta sends strange things to windows for workgroups and
locks up machine!
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
*   *   *   *   *   *   [e-mail]    *   *   *   *   *   *   *   @
Tim Flynn, Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008  ph.(515)-294-9022@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 16:20:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17931
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:57:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05981
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:57:09 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.fiu.edu!newshost.fiu.edu!solix!mtritt01
From: [e-mail] (Merrill D. Tritt)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: external kermit protocol
Date: 18 Oct 1994 16:20:03 GMT
Organization: Florida International University
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <380sjj$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: solix.fiu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I prefer using a dos comm program and, unfortunately, it does not support
kermit.  I have found an external version of kermit that I can configure
to work with my software, but it is a bit old and does not support
today's connect rates.  Does anybody know if something like this still
exists?  The file was called PCKERMIT.

Thanks in advance.

--
===========================================================================
==      Merrill Tritt   === [e-mail] ===   Miami, FL      ==
===========================================================================

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 22:01:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18358
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:01:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06340
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:01:34 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: exit causes reboot
Date: 18 Oct 1994 22:01:32 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <381gjs$[e-mail]>
References: <381e36$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <381e36$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timothy John
Flynn) writes:
> When I exit the kermit beta it totally reboots.....
> Also kermit beta sends strange things to windows for workgroups and
> locks up machine!
>
There's no point in cluttering up the newsgroup with reports like this.
Please send them straight to [e-mail], and include more
details -- PC and network configuration, software versions (DOS, Windows,
WFW, whatever).  This is not to say that there isn't a problem, but we
need more to go on, and you'll get MUCH faster response from email than
from news.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 22:03:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18566
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:03:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06458
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:03:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: external kermit protocol
Date: 18 Oct 1994 22:03:47 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <381go3$[e-mail]>
References: <380sjj$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <380sjj$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Merrill D.
Tritt) writes:
> I prefer using a dos comm program and, unfortunately, it does not support
> kermit.  I have found an external version of kermit that I can configure
> to work with my software, but it is a bit old and does not support
> today's connect rates.  Does anybody know if something like this still
> exists?  The file was called PCKERMIT.
>
MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 comes in three different versions: large, medium, and
small.  Any of these can be used as an external protocol by other DOS
programs via command-line argument passing.  The small version is
particularly well-suited for this.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary
mode, file mstibm.zip.

I think PCKERMIT must be MS-DOS Kermit 1.x from 1982 or so...

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 22:32:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22592
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:18:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12678
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:18:35 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!hookup!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!FNALO.FNAL.GOV!MORPHIS
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: will Mac Kermit work on a powermac 7100/66
Date: 18 Oct 1994 22:32:17 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 6
Message-Id: <381idh$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

It is brand new running version 7 (or 7.1) one of my users wants to make sure
it works before figuring out how to ftp it over.  (I have my hair pulled
out on other items of joy, so I delegated)

Robert Morphis
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 23:27:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22973
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:27:14 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13310
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:27:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: will Mac Kermit work on a powermac 7100/66
Date: 18 Oct 1994 23:27:11 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <381lkf$[e-mail]>
References: <381idh$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <381idh$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> It is brand new running version 7 (or 7.1) one of my users wants to make
> sure it works before figuring out how to ftp it over.  (I have my hair
> pulled out on other items of joy, so I delegated)
>
Mac Kermit 0.991(190), dated 16 Aug 94, or later, will run on PowerMacs,
as well as under Mac OS 7.1.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/text, text
(ascii) mode, files ckm190.hqx and ckmker.bwr.  The former is the Mac Kermit
app itself, to be un-hqx'd by BinHex 4.0.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 20:31:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23730
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:45:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14531
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:45:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!e4e.oac.uci.edu!amnewlan
From: [e-mail] (Anne M. NEWLAND)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit vs HyperAccess
Date: 18 Oct 1994 20:31:06 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 37
Distribution: usa
Message-Id: <381baa$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: e4e.oac.uci.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Hi!

My sister has a toshiba notebook, and the name of her communication
software is HyperAccess, working with Windows. This program can do a lot of
fancy things, but we
have failed miserably to discover how to accomplish simple things that I
can do with my mac170 and MacKermit very easily!

One thing is that once she has connected to e4e, she gets a black
background with white letters which is really hard on the eyes, I am sure
there must be a way of reversing that but we can't find it!

Another thing is that it is absolutely impossible to print a single
message on her attached desk jet printer. We have done what is necessary in
e4e, for the "attached ansi"
printer, we do "y" to print the message, etc, then her software print
command but it
does not print the message, but the session!! We were driven mad...

Still another, if she wants to capture to a file, then it only captures
the first page no matter how many pages you go through!

I told her maybe she should get Kermit, though I have been told it is not
as easy to use as MacKermit. Do you know if it will run with Windows?

My MacKermit is so simple and easy to use!

Too bad her husband is stuck on PCs ! He could not find answers to these
either.

If you have any hints for us or helpful info, we would greatly appreciate it!


Anne Newland
please reply to<[e-mail]> if not too much trouble, thanks!


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 00:04:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24566
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:04:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15959
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:04:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit vs HyperAccess
Date: 19 Oct 1994 00:04:38 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 49
Message-Id: <381nqm$[e-mail]>
References: <381baa$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]

In article <381baa$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anne
M. NEWLAND) writes:
>
> My sister has a toshiba notebook, and the name of her communication
> software is HyperAccess, working with Windows. This program can do a lot of
> fancy things, but we
> have failed miserably to discover how to accomplish simple things that I
> can do with my mac170 and MacKermit very easily!
>
> One thing is that once she has connected to e4e, she gets a black
> background with white letters which is really hard on the eyes, I am sure
> there must be a way of reversing that but we can't find it!
>
I couldn't tell you how to make these things work in HyperAccess, but they
all work just fine in MS-DOS Kermit.  For example, MS-DOS Kermit has a
SET TERMINAL COLOR command that can be used to set the fore- and background
colors for terminal emulation.

> Another thing is that it is absolutely impossible to print a single
> message on her attached desk jet printer. We have done what is necessary in
> e4e, for the "attached ansi"
> printer, we do "y" to print the message, etc, then her software print
> command but it
> does not print the message, but the session!! We were driven mad...
>
This too works just fine in MS-DOS Kermit -- printing starts at the next
characters after the "printer on" directive, and stops immediately upon
receipt of the "printer off" directive.

> Still another, if she wants to capture to a file, then it only captures
> the first page no matter how many pages you go through!
>
Kermit gives you several ways to capture files: logging the session,
dumping screens, etc.  You have pretty much total control.

> I told her maybe she should get Kermit, though I have been told it is not
> as easy to use as MacKermit. Do you know if it will run with Windows?
>
No, it is not as easy to use as Mac Kermit -- but it is a lot more
stable :-) (and has a lot more functionality).  It is a text-mode program,
and therefore maybe a little bit difficult for beginners to deal with.  But
it gives you a very high degree of control, rather than doing things by
magic and making it impossible for you change how it works because it knows
what is best for you.

MS-DOS Kermit comes with a very nice manual, which explains everything
very gently, with illustrations and lots of examples.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 00:05:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24645
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:05:28 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16020
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:05:26 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit vs HyperAccess
Date: 19 Oct 1994 00:05:24 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 49
Message-Id: <381ns4$[e-mail]>
References: <381baa$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <381baa$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anne
M. NEWLAND) writes:
>
> My sister has a toshiba notebook, and the name of her communication
> software is HyperAccess, working with Windows. This program can do a lot of
> fancy things, but we
> have failed miserably to discover how to accomplish simple things that I
> can do with my mac170 and MacKermit very easily!
>
> One thing is that once she has connected to e4e, she gets a black
> background with white letters which is really hard on the eyes, I am sure
> there must be a way of reversing that but we can't find it!
>
I couldn't tell you how to make these things work in HyperAccess, but they
all work just fine in MS-DOS Kermit.  For example, MS-DOS Kermit has a
SET TERMINAL COLOR command that can be used to set the fore- and background
colors for terminal emulation.

> Another thing is that it is absolutely impossible to print a single
> message on her attached desk jet printer. We have done what is necessary in
> e4e, for the "attached ansi"
> printer, we do "y" to print the message, etc, then her software print
> command but it
> does not print the message, but the session!! We were driven mad...
>
This too works just fine in MS-DOS Kermit -- printing starts at the next
characters after the "printer on" directive, and stops immediately upon
receipt of the "printer off" directive.

> Still another, if she wants to capture to a file, then it only captures
> the first page no matter how many pages you go through!
>
Kermit gives you several ways to capture files: logging the session,
dumping screens, etc.  You have pretty much total control.

> I told her maybe she should get Kermit, though I have been told it is not
> as easy to use as MacKermit. Do you know if it will run with Windows?
>
No, it is not as easy to use as Mac Kermit -- but it is a lot more
stable :-) (and has a lot more functionality).  It is a text-mode program,
and therefore maybe a little bit difficult for beginners to deal with.  But
it gives you a very high degree of control, rather than doing things by
magic and making it impossible for you change how it works because it knows
what is best for you.

MS-DOS Kermit comes with a very nice manual, which explains everything
very gently, with illustrations and lots of examples.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 09:42:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26019
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:29:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17921
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:29:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problem using Kermit 3.10...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Oct 94 15:42:16 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thomas Timperio) writes:
> Help!  I've connected two modems to my ancient 8088 and am having a hard time
> getting Kermit 3.10 to work.  The modems are both 2400 baud, both work on a
> 486 a friend has.  On my machine, Kermit boots fine.  When I try to send
> commands to the modem, they come across okay and I see the modem responding.
> It will dial my school's modem pool and even connect, but no characters are
> visible on the screen (i.e. no CONNECT message, no ATDT, nothing, although the
> keyboard commands are registering).  If I set the duplex to half, then I can
> see what I'm typing up until there is a connection.  Otherwise, there's no
> change.
------------
    Please obtain a copy of Kermit distribution file MSKERM.BWR
from directory kermit/a on kermit.columbia.edu. This discusses many
common modem difficulties, including your 'talk but not listen' case.
Most likely problem: IRQ conflicts or at a value not assumed by Kermit.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 03:12:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04893
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:30:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00600
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:30:03 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!hookup!usc!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!tali.hsc.colorado.edu!boulder!csnews!alumni.cs.colorado.edu!wouk
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Wouk)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: what gives a telebit indigestion?
Date: 19 Oct 1994 03:12:12 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <3822qc$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: alumni.cs.colorado.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

i am running into a problem in trying to improve the speed of kermit
operating through telebit modems. i was trint=g to unprefix and then
set prefix via

set control unprefix all
set control prefix 0 1 13 129 141

as suggested by frank da cruz in his postings.

i am running ckermit5A(189) at both ends, and have an att dataport
14.4k modem at my end.

when i run true binary (.gz files) through this, i quickly run into
something which issues a ^C and stops the receiving kermit, when the
remote machine is a telebit. if i remove these two lines, there is no
problem. if i gunzip the file, and send it (ascii) through the binary
transmission, i get no problems.

anyone worked out what gives the telebit indigestion? or is my
dataport?

i doubt the latter, because i have one path in to the remote machine
via a non-telebit 2400 baud modem, and that path has no problems. i
can use the two lines above and my efficiency goes from 75% to 83% on
binary downloads of binary data on this path.
--
--
arthur wouk
internet: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 02:59:58 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09118
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:48:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05860
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:48:26 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: msk314 beta 6 - whats new???
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:59:58 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 4
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why?

Jeff


From [e-mail] Tue Oct 18 15:51:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10430
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:13:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06962
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:13:54 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: beta 3.14 and printing
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Oct 94 21:51:54 MDT
References: <381aeo$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <381aeo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Wayne S. Mery) writes:
> The 3.14 kermit.upd file states:
>
>  . Revised printer support for better interoperation with Novell CAPTURE
>
>
> I'd like more information on what was improved.  Also, does the
> improvement only apply to Novell or to does it apply equally to
> direct attached printers?
---------
    I'd say that if you don't have a problem then you don't have
a problem. Kermit always prints through DOS itself, or what appears
to be DOS on the other end of Interrupt 21h. Improvments include
more tenacious retrying and status checking to see if every byte does
indeed make it to DOS and that DOS approves. Plus closing the printer
channel after closing a capture file (to effectively send an EOJ
command to your NW server).
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 12:24:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21835
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:24:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22001
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:24:24 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new???
Date: 19 Oct 1994 12:24:22 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 61
Message-Id: <38335m$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff
Bishop) writes:
> What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why?
>
Hmmm...  Seems the announcement never made it.  Briefly:

 1. The program itself has a few fixes, plus a new feature -- which
    is still being worked on:  SET PORT FOSSIL 1..99.  Fossil driver
    users are encouraged to check this out and report back.

 2. User-settable Answerback message (see below).

 3. Some DOC files, etc, that were supposed to be there were missing,
    now they are where they are supposed to be.

 4. A couple new modem dialing scripts that just came in -- Dynalink
    1414, etc.

Lots of people have been asking to be able to set the answerback message,
the text that Kermit sends while it is in CONNECT mode and receives an
ENQ (Ctrl-E) character.  One point of view says this opens up all kinds of
security risks, the opposing point of view says that people should be able
to do what they want.  We are taking a middle ground.  Here's how it works.

SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK { ON, OFF }
  Works as before.  This command simply enables or disables the sending
  of answerback messages in response to ENQ during terminal emulation.
  By default it is OFF, primarily because of what happens when you have
  a noisy connection.  If you want it on all the time, just put SET TERMINAL
  ANSWERBACK ON in your MSCUSTOM.INI file.

When TERMINAL ANSWERBACK is ON, the answerback message is:

  MS-DOS-KERMIT 314_VT320<CR>

In other words, the name of the program, the program version, and the
terminal type, followed by a carriage return.

SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK MESSAGE [ <text> ]
  This is new.  If you give this command and specify some text, then the
  text is *appended* to the standard answerback message, preceded by an
  underscore, but before the carriage return, e.g.:

  MS-DOS-KERMIT 314_ANSI_123 Science Hall<CR>

If you give the SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK MESSAGE command with no text, the
default message is restored.

We are doing it this way because we think it is important to have a standard
format for answerback messages that host applications can always depend
upon, from now on:

  program-name<space>version_emulation[_user-fields...]<CR>

You can play with this feature by telling MS-DOS Kermit to SET TERMINAL
ANSWERBACK ON, and then running C-Kermit on the host, and giving it the
following command:

  ask \%a \5

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 12:40:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22696
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:40:55 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22995
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:40:54 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: what gives a telebit indigestion?
Date: 19 Oct 1994 12:40:52 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 41
Message-Id: <38344k$[e-mail]>
References: <3822qc$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3822qc$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Arthur Wouk) writes:
> i am running into a problem in trying to improve the speed of kermit
> operating through telebit modems. i was trint=g to unprefix and then
> set prefix via
>
> set control unprefix all
> set control prefix 0 1 13 129 141
>
> as suggested by frank da cruz in his postings.
>
> i am running ckermit5A(189) at both ends, and have an att dataport
> 14.4k modem at my end.
>
> when i run true binary (.gz files) through this, i quickly run into
> something which issues a ^C and stops the receiving kermit, when the
> remote machine is a telebit. if i remove these two lines, there is no
> problem. if i gunzip the file, and send it (ascii) through the binary
> transmission, i get no problems.
>
You should have read the documentation.  Two Ctrl-C's in a row will pop
a remote-mode C-Kermit (189 or earlier) out of packet mode, back to its
prompt.  This is stated clearly and repeatedly in the manual, "Using
C-Kermit", and in the ckcker.upd file that comes with version 5A(189).
This file also describes how to get around this: (a) Don't unprefix Ctrl-C
(3 or 131); (b) change the packet-mode cancellation character; (c) change
the number of packet-mode cancellation characters required for cancellation.

In version 5A(190), we have increased the default number of consecutive
Ctrl-C's needed to cancel packet mode from two to three.  This turns Ctrl-C
into a safe character, in most circumstances, because any run of three or
more characters in the file data will be encoded in a special way.  Thus,
you should not have to worry about Ctrl-C's any more.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 08:43:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22836
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:43:39 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23157
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:43:38 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.csc.fi!news.helsinki.fi!cc.helsinki.fi!jaakola
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: PLIP.COM packet driver and MS-Kermit 3.13
Date: 19 Oct 94 14:25:01 EET
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 38
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: hylka.helsinki.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I tried to connect two PC's with a MS-DOS 6.0 InterLnk cable, PLIP.COM
packet drivers and MS-Kermit 3.13. I'm an experienced packet driver &
TCP/IP & MS-Kermit user, but I couldn't get this setup working, so I'm
now asking for help.

The cable is almost OK: only the 25-25 pin connection is missing,
everything else is OK according to MS-DOS 6.0 InterLnk help and Linux
NET-3-HOWTO. I can connect those two PC's with MS-DOS 6.0 InterLnk.

I run the "PLIP 0x60 -t" cable test, and it shows (as Russ Nelson kindly
told me) that the cable is OK: it shows a "1" cycling in a round-robin
way those five digits displayed.

Then I start MS-Kermit 3.13 and issue commands:
  set port tcp/ip
  set tcp/ip address 1.1.1.1
  set tcp/ip host *              ; telnet server mode
  connect

and on the second computer:

  set port tcp/ip
  set tcp/ip address 1.1.1.2
  set tcp/ip host 1.1.1.1
  connect

but the connection cannot be established.

I recall reading some discussion about PLIP and MS-Kermit (was it about
a year ago?) that there was some inconsistency between them (incorrect
simulation of Ethernet or something like that). So, should MS-Kermit
3.13 work with PLIP.COM?

(This MS-Kermit <-> MS-Kermit connection is just a test, the real
objective is to connect MS-Kermit or Trumpet Winsock to a Linux 1.1.35
box. So, please no "just use InterLnk/SLIP/plain serial" flames!)
--
Juhani Jaakola, [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 05:15:43 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26058
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:31:32 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26412
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:31:30 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 05:15:43 GMT
Lines: 73
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
>>     I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
>>     account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
>>     print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
>>     I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
>>     chunks of characters.
>>
>>     I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or
>>     I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my
>>     Unix account:  The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to
>>     the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen,
>>     with an occassional buffer overflow error message.  I have to
>>     reboot my computer to stop it.
>>
>>     I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not
>>     working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory
>>     total on my PC.  (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow
>>     control, so I have XON/XOFF set.)  But now I wonder if it's
>>     something else.
>-------------
>    Once again, please tell us the version and patch number of the Kermit
>involved (we don't service non-Columbia Kermits) and whatever other
>information you think might be important.

    Sorry 'bout that, chief! :)  I'm running MSK 3.13 PL 21 on a Data
    General/One 2T (remember me, Frank? :), which is a very early
    laptop with an 8088 processor running at (I think) ~13+ MHz.  It
    has 640K memory total (no upper memory), and no hard drive (two
    720K 3.5" diskette drives instead).  The OS is a Data General
    revision of MS-DOS 3.2.  The modem is internal; I know very little
    about it, other than it has a top speed of 2400 bps and is at least
    Hayes compatible.  It probably doesn't have hardware flow control,
    although I couldn't say for sure, as this PC came to me sans
    documentation.

    The C-Kermit on my Unix account is 5A(190), beta 21.

>    Is there a communications device between the far modem and your Unix
>box?

    I connect to my service provider through a POP (Point Of Presence).
    To the best of my knowledge, all the POP's are connected via T1
    and/or other links to a central location, where the Unix boxes
    live.  There are 20 Unix boxes networked together, and fed by
    several network file servers.  A router connects me to one of these
    20 boxes right after modem handshake.  If more detail is necessary,
    I could write to tech support or even ask some of the more
    knowledgeable users at this site.

>    The ^F^F... effect could be from a corrupted kermit.exe file, from
>systems problems outside of Kermit, from memory management troubles in the
>PC, whatnot.

    It occurs to me that I was using the same PC and version of Kermit
    to transfer files back and forth on my last account, which was on
    an IBM 370 (TSO-Kermit).  I was able to use a packet length of 2K
    with no problems.

>    640KB is more than adequate to run Kermit (it's a small sized program).
>If you are using screen rollback for Connect mode then those screens are
>stored either in conventional memory (at about 4KB per screen) or in expanded
>memory.

    I have screen rollback enabled (I use it frequently).  The screens
    have to be stored in conventional memory, since that's all I have.
    I used rollback on my last account, and again had no problems with
    larger packets.  There seems to be memory to spare, as I can push
    to DOS and run such utilities as PK(UN)ZIP.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 13:55:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00441
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 10:24:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00634
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 10:24:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!FNALO.FNAL.GOV!MORPHIS
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: will Mac Kermit work on a powermac 7100/66
Date: 19 Oct 1994 13:55:00 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 1
Message-Id: <3838fk$[e-mail]>
References: <381idh$[e-mail]>,<381lkf$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Thanks!

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 14:21:33 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03136
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:01:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03420
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:01:14 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
From: [e-mail] (Michael Bernardi)
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!childsoc.demon.co.uk!Mike
Subject: MS-Kermit 3.14 edition of book/manual?
Organization: The Children's Society
Reply-To: Michael Bernardi <[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29
Lines: 9
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:21:33 +0000
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Once the new version of MS-Kermit is out of beta, will a 3rd version of
the excellent book "Using MS-DOS Kermit" appear?
It has after all been 3 years and 3 revisions since its publication.
Mike
I bought the original first edition.
--
 Michael Bernardi        [e-mail] (Internet) | Making lives
 The Children's Society, Edward Rudolf House, Margery Street, | worth living
 London, WC1X 0JL, UK    Voice: [phone]     Charity Reg. No. 221124

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 15:14:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03976
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:14:28 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04326
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:14:27 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit 3.14 edition of book/manual?
Date: 19 Oct 1994 15:14:16 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <383d48$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Michael Bernardi) writes:
> Once the new version of MS-Kermit is out of beta, will a 3rd version of
> the excellent book "Using MS-DOS Kermit" appear?
> It has after all been 3 years and 3 revisions since its publication.
>
Sorry, no, there is not a new edition of "Using MS-DOS Kermit" for version
3.14.  As with 3.12 and 3.13, you should use the Second Edition of the book
in conjunction with the KERMIT.UPD file on the diskette.  We would like to
produce a new edition of the book with every release of the software, but
it is not possible.  The version after 3.14 will probably be accompanied by
a new edition.

- Frank



From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 16:23:30 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13175
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:19:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15008
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:19:54 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!lewart
From: [e-mail] (Daniel S. Lewart)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: cmsg cancel <[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Oct 1994 16:23:30 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 3
Message-Id: <383h62$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

cancel <[e-mail]> in newsgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc

This article was cancelled from within NN version 6.5.0 (NOV)

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 16:00:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13362
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:23:28 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15255
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:23:27 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Daniel S. Lewart)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: 3.14/Beta-6:  Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc.
Date: 19 Oct 94 16:00:00 GMT
Organization: DSL Consulting
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <383hca$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Daniel S. Lewart)
Nntp-Posting-Host: rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

The standard answerback prefix can be defeated with the following or
a variation thereof:
    set terminal answerback on
    set terminal answerback \21Miscreant_Command_Here
However, I don't think the answerback security hole is any worse then
the ability to redefine keys with "set key".

I noticed that the context-sensitive help (?) doesn't abbreviate the
already typed words and word completion (Esc) adds the trailing space.
This is how command-line editing used to be and that is how I like it.

Is the KERMIT.ICO Windows icon file needed anymore?  It is not in mstibm.zip.

The command is "set terminal underscore", but "show terminal" says
"Term underline color".  These should be consistent.

There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't
reproduce.  Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast
to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display.

Kermit still runs wonderfully on my ATT 6300.  Kudos to JRD and FDC for
their Herculean work!

Cheers,
Daniel Lewart
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 17:31:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13980
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:31:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15999
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:31:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6
From: [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6:  Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc.
Date: 19 Oct 1994 17:31:40 GMT
Organization: Trilateral Commission, Columbia University student chapter
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <383l5s$[e-mail]>
References: <383hca$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa-cddi.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <383hca$[e-mail]>,
Daniel S. Lewart <[e-mail]> wrote:
|There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't
|reproduce.  Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast
|to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display.

If I SET TERM VIDEO-WRITING BIOS on my Tandy XT then screen updates will be
a ripple.
---  _________________________________   o   ______________________________
     Yeechang Lee  ([e-mail]) o   o a New Yorker bred, if not born
     Columbia University/New York City \_O_/ Nevada Las Vegas Mission 92-94
     I'm a peon for Gersten, Savage, Kaplowitz, & Curtin, 575 Lexington Ave

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 17:38:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14381
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:38:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16458
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:38:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6:  Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc.
Date: 19 Oct 1994 17:38:02 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <383lhq$[e-mail]>
References: <383hca$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <383hca$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Daniel S.
Lewart) writes:
> The standard answerback prefix can be defeated with the following or
> a variation thereof:
>     set terminal answerback on
>     set terminal answerback \21Miscreant_Command_Here
>
Not really.  All the characters are still sent.  It's up to the host
application how to interpret them.

> Is the KERMIT.ICO Windows icon file needed anymore?  It is not in
> mstibm.zip.
>
No, it's not needed.  We are not supplying a Windows icon for MS-DOS
Kermit.  Just pick one out for yourself from the little collection of
free icons that comes with Windows -- see KERMIT.HLP for instructions.

> There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't
> reproduce.  Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast
> to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display.
>
I see this too on my SVGA, but it has nothing to do with Kermit -- it
happens at random times no matter what application is running.

- Frank
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 06:45:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22173
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:21:29 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06997
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:21:27 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Oct 94 12:45:20 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 33
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
>>>     I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
>>>     account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
>>>     print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
>>>     I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
>>>     chunks of characters.
>>>
>>>     I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or
>>>     I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my
>>>     Unix account:  The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to
>>>     the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen,
>>>     with an occassional buffer overflow error message.  I have to
>>>     reboot my computer to stop it.
>>>
>>>     I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not
>>>     working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory
>>>     total on my PC.  (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow
>>>     control, so I have XON/XOFF set.)  But now I wonder if it's
>>>     something else.
>>-------------
    I presume you are using DG terminal emulation, because I've received
another report some time ago with a Connect screen ^F^F symptom. I suspect it
is coming from the remote host, as LOG SESSION can verify one way or the other.
    Otherwise if these things really occur on the Kermit command line
and there are no script commands being executed at that time then it's a
problem of some mysterious kind. MSK 3.14 has a uni-directional flow control
option (SET FLOW) so it may throttle a remote host and still let the host send
XON/XOFF codes as data rather than as flow control signals.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 16:33:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28029
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:33:22 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13362
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:33:19 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!trane.uninett.no!due.uninett.no!debet!xedb_gene
From: [e-mail] (Gene Scharmann)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14 beta-3: Set Term Rollback defaults to ON
Message-Id: <1994Oct19.104010.2269@debet>
Date: 19 Oct 94 10:40:10 MET
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

MSK 3.14 Beta-3:
    The default option for SET TERM ROLLBACK is supposed to be OFF,
even the '?' help functions says so:
Rollback  (undo screen roll back before writing new chars,default=off)

But in 3.14-Beta3 it is default on.  Don't know if this was planned, or
a 'mite'
--
Gene Scharmann, SYSOP Sotrainbow OPUS BBS Bergen NORWAY
    FidoNet: 2:211/3 (+47 55 31.09.91) 14.4KBaud
    E-Mail:  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 21:02:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00836
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:02:55 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15817
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:02:54 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta-3: Set Term Rollback defaults to ON
Date: 19 Oct 1994 21:02:50 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <3841hq$[e-mail]>
References: <1994Oct19.104010.2269@debet>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <1994Oct19.104010.2269@debet> [e-mail] (Gene
Scharmann) writes:
> MSK 3.14 Beta-3:
>     The default option for SET TERM ROLLBACK is supposed to be OFF,
> even the '?' help functions says so:
> Rollback  (undo screen roll back before writing new chars,default=off)
> But in 3.14-Beta3 it is default on.  Don't know if this was planned, or
> a 'mite'
>
Neither, I hope.  If you start Kermit with "-f nul" on the command line
to prevent execution of any initialization files, you should find that
SET TERMINAL ROLL is indeed OFF, as revealed not only by SHOW TERMINAL,
but also by experiment.  Ditto if Kermit is started with the MSKERMIT.INI
and MSCUSTOM.INI that are distributed with it.

- Frank

x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 03:53:14 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01462
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:10:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16318
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:10:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new???
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Oct 94 09:53:14 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 8
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop) writes:
> What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why?
>
------
    I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really
testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final
release.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 07:43:30 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02330
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:24:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17644
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:24:44 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <37p0k0$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:43:30 GMT
Lines: 162
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <37p0k0$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
>>
>>     I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix
>>     account (this one that I'm posting from).  My mail agent has a
>>     print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.'
>>     I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole
>>     chunks of characters.
>>
>I can't emphasize this strongly enough:  You must have the most effective
>means of flow control that is available to you enabled at every interface
>along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the
>way to the printer.

    Yes, Pine.  It is likely that my modem doesn't have hareware flow
    control, so XON/XOFF is probably the *only* type of flow control
    available between my host and my PC.  This is the setting I use in
    my MSKERMIT.INI.  I know that I can stop the host from sending to
    my screen with ^S and restart it with ^Q while in terminal mode,
    but I don't know if Pine will respond to these characters while
    printing, or even if C-Kermit is responding to them during a file
    transfer.

>>     I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or
>>     I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my
>>     Unix account:  The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to
>>     the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen,
>>     with an occassional buffer overflow error message.  I have to
>>     reboot my computer to stop it.
>>
>This is pretty bizarre -- I've never seen such a thing, and can only
>speculate that this is one of those cases where DOS turns off interrupts
>to write to a (slow) disk, after which matters quickly disintegrate.

    This is entirely possible.  I haven't a clue about how interrupts
    work, but my disk drives (both 720K 3.5" - I have no hard drive)
    are certainly slow.  On my last account (on an IBM 370), TSO-Kermit
    could send 2K packets with no trouble on the PC end.  Even with a
    text file, where a 2K packet writes about 2K to the disk, there was
    no trouble.

>>     I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not
>>     working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory
>>     total on my PC.  (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow
>>     control, so I have XON/XOFF set.)  But now I wonder if it's
>>     something else.
>>
>Let's look at this connection in detail to illustrate all the things that
>might go wrong, starting from the printer and working back to the host
>application.

>The printer should be a parallel printer.

    It is.

>When Kermit receives material to be printed, it uses DOS services to send
>it to the printer.  If Kermit gets the data intact, but the printer fails
>to print it, then it's a problem with the printer itself or the DOS
>printer driver, in which case, there is little that Kermit can do to help.

    I've used the printer with DOS (copy filename.txt prn), with a word
    processor to print complex documents (eg. text and graphics), and
    with a GIF printer.  It works reliably with all these.

>That raises the question: under what circumstances could Kermit itself
>lose incoming data?  There are (at least) two fundamental reasons this
>could happen: (1) interrupt conflicts, and (2) lack of flow control.
>Reason (1) was mentioned above.  If you have a slow disk and the disk
>driver masks off COM port and/or timer interrupts during disk writes, your
>only recourse is to fool with the BUFFERS= parameter in CONFIG.SYS -- less
>disk buffering could mean shorter amounts of time during which COM port
>interrupts are disabled.  Of course, newer, faster PCs are less likely to
>have this problem (but there are no guarantees).

    I have BUFFERS=10.  Could this be too high?  I'll experiment with
    it.

>Lack of flow control is the more likely culprit.  You say your modem does
>not offer hardware flow control so you have to use Xon/Xoff.  So you tell
>Kermit to "set flow xon/xoff".

    Yes, I have this set.

>Xon/Xoff is a "protocol" like any other, and requires two players, just
>like a game of catch.  The ball is an ordinary data character, Ctrl-S
>(Xoff) or Ctrl-Q (Xon), mixed in with all the other data characters.  Who
>and where is the other player?  (What if there IS no other player?
>The first thing to check is whether somebody, somewhere along the
>communication path ALSO has Xon/Xoff enabled.  If not, then after you
>throw your first ball, you'll never get it back!)

>The farther away the other player is, the greater the chance of error:
>propogation delays, noise, etc, become increasingly dominating factors
>with distance.

    Propagation delays is a likely possibility.  It can take up to
    several minutes, at times, for characters typed into an editor (for
    example) to echo back on the screen.  Sometimes this is because the
    host I'm on is carrying a high load average, but I suspect that at
    other times it is because the link between my POP and my host is
    near saturation.  Noise is another-- I experience occasional bursts
    of garbage characters on the screen, and sometimes have to call
    back to get a cleaner connection.

    However, when neither of these is a problem, printing from Pine and
    receiving packets on my PC larger than 1K during a file transfer
    still is.

>So the trick, is to cut down on the propogation delay:

>  Be sure you have enabled Xon/Xoff at the place that is closest to
>  your PC, and that that "place" is then capable of propogating flow
>  control "upstream".

>Suppose your modem supports "local Xon/Xoff".

    I doubt that mine does.  I think it's probably transparant to ^S
    and ^Q.  Since I don't have a manual for it, I can't be sure.  I
    can make my modem output its profile (showing settings).  I looked
    these up in the Hayes Technical refernece Manual, in an effort to
    identify its features.  Local Xon/Xoff was not among them.

>Another alternative is to position your flow-control partner farther
>upstream, for example, at the host operating system.  If you are connected
>directly to a serial port on the host computer, this is your only choice
>anyway.  But if you are coming in through a terminal server or any kind of
>network, this will increase the propogation delay siginificantly.

    I think the host is as close as I can get.

>To enable Xon/Xoff flow control in UNIX (often called Start/Stop flow
>control in UNIX documentation), the command is usually something like:

>  stty ixon ixoff -ixany

    I checked my settings (stty -a), and found these to already be set.

>> >Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and
>> >print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w
>> >problem not a handshake problem.
>>
>>     I usually "export" my mail into a file, then do a regular file
>>     transfer.  But this is a pain in the neck.  I'd also like to try
>>     packet sizes of around 2K to see if that speeds up file transfers.
>>
>You misunderstood the suggestion.  Print from your host mail application
>in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes
>printer output to a file on your PC's disk.  This will eliminate flow
>control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself,
>if that is what is causing the problem.  Then you can print the file
>later, using the DOS PRINT command.

    I understood.  I tried this just now, with a fairly large piece of
    mail-- 'thought it might make a good test.  There was no loss of
    characters when I set printer to a file on disk.  Does this help
    narrow down what's going wrong?

                        Jeff


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 22:46:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07880
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:47:04 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24029
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:47:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Date: 19 Oct 1994 22:46:59 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 31
Message-Id: <3847l3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

> >You misunderstood the suggestion.  Print from your host mail application
> >in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes
> >printer output to a file on your PC's disk.  This will eliminate flow
> >control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself,
> >if that is what is causing the problem.  Then you can print the file
> >later, using the DOS PRINT command.
>
>     I understood.  I tried this just now, with a fairly large piece of
>     mail-- 'thought it might make a good test.  There was no loss of
>     characters when I set printer to a file on disk.  Does this help
>     narrow down what's going wrong?
>
On the face of it, this would seem to rule out the PC-to-Pine communication
path, all of it, and to rule in the connection between your PC and printer.
But, no, that's too simple.  Since you can print local PC files without
losing data, that rules the PC-printer connection back out again.

Writing to disk is much faster than writing to a printer, so when Kermit
is routing data to the printer, then whenever the printer's "busy" wire
goes on, Kermit has to flow-control the host to stop sending data.  This is
the weak spot, apparently -- the flow control signal, in this case an Xoff
character, does not arrive in time, and so data is lost because it keeps
coming even though Kermit's internal buffer is full, and the printer is
busy.  There is literally no place to put it, so it is lost.

From your description, it sounds like SET PRINTER <disk-file-name>, since
it works, might be your only way out of this mess -- at least your only
free way :-)  -- you could also buy a new modem...

- Frank


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 22:35:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07908
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:48:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24117
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:48:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!pacifier!rayp
From: [e-mail] (Ray Pendergast)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 19 Oct 1994 22:35:24 GMT
Organization: Pacifier BBS, Vancouver, Wa.  ([phone])
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <3846vc$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: pacifier.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I have read this series of postings, and have a similar problem.  In
fact, these are the symptoms that prompted me to browse this newsgroup.
I don't know if this will fit the line of conversation thus far, but I am
guessing that my problem (charcters being randomly inserted into text
while I am connected to my server) is because it is VT100, and my kermit
emulation is VT320.

So, I am asking for advice.  How can I change the setting in my kermit
program to VT100.  Is it possible to do so with each call I make?  I have
two accounts:  one VT100, the other VT320.  I'd like to be able to toggle
back and forth, or something equally convenient.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are made in
terms that a novice like me would find understandable.  Thanks.

--
----
Ray Pendergast

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 23:01:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08521
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:01:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25180
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:01:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen
Date: 19 Oct 1994 23:01:28 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 46
Message-Id: <3848g8$[e-mail]>
References: <3846vc$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3846vc$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ray Pendergast)
writes:
> I have read this series of postings, and have a similar problem.  In
> fact, these are the symptoms that prompted me to browse this newsgroup.
> I don't know if this will fit the line of conversation thus far, but I am
> guessing that my problem (charcters being randomly inserted into text
> while I am connected to my server) is because it is VT100, and my kermit
> emulation is VT320.
>
No, not at all.  VT320 is, in every sense, a superset of VT100.  Any
escape sequences sent to a VT100 will be accepted and acted upon by a
VT320 (or 220, or 102) in exactly the same way.

> So, I am asking for advice.  How can I change the setting in my kermit
> program to VT100.
>
SET TERMINAL TYPE VT100.

> Is it possible to do so with each call I make?
>
Of course.

> I have two accounts:  one VT100, the other VT320.  I'd like to be able to
> toggle  back and forth, or something equally convenient.
>
You can do a lot more than that.  You can write little scripts that make
each connection and set all the appropriate parameters -- terminal emulation,
key maps, you name it, automatically for each account.

> Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are made in
> terms that a novice like me would find understandable.
>
I like to think that the user manual, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", does a very
good job at making this material understandable.

But none of this explains why you are seeing pieces of escape sequences on
your screen.  This is happening because material is coming in faster than
your PC can process it.  Either reduce your communication speed, get a faster
computer, or (what we keep preaching) enable the MOST EFFECTIVE POSSIBLE
means of flow control at each point along the communication path.  For
example, configure your modem for RTS/CTS "hardware" flow control, and then
tell Kermit to SET FLOW RTS/CTS.  But then you also have to ensure that the
other modem, and whatever it is connected to, etc, are also configured for
flow control.  Assume nothing.  TrustNo1.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 10:45:18 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13918
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:48:00 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03133
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:47:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!netnews.wku.edu!netnews.wku.edu!nntp
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: DOS KERMIT transfer-only program?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (KEVIN)
Date: 19 Oct 94 15:45:18 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Western Kentucky University
Nntp-Posting-Host: wkuvx2
Nntp-Posting-User: ryank
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I currently call MSKERMIT.EXE in order to take advantage of
the sliding windows protocol; the version of kermit that is
native to my communications program doesn't allow me to take
advantage of the speedier options that the full program offers.

This works okay, but I wouldn't mind finding a transfer-protocol-
only DOS program that implements sliding windows kermit.  I've
tried the outboard kermit programs posted on SIMTEL, but none
implement the advanced features.  Is there a shareware or
freeware kermit transfer program that incorporates sliding
windows, adjustable block sizes, etc?



Kevin Ryan
[e-mail]
Western Kentucky University

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 14:20:26 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21736
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 23:13:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13460
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 23:13:18 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6:  Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc.
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Oct 94 20:20:26 MDT
References: <383hca$[e-mail]> <383l5s$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <383l5s$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Yeechang Lee) writes:
> In article <383hca$[e-mail]>,
> Daniel S. Lewart <[e-mail]> wrote:
> |There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't
> |reproduce.  Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast
> |to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display.
>
> If I SET TERM VIDEO-WRITING BIOS on my Tandy XT then screen updates will be
> a ripple.
---------
    The slower the video system then the more visible will be screen
changes. The Bios is slower than direct screen writing. Try horizontal
scrolling to see this under fingertip control (without bothering the remote
host). Or just roll the screen up and down.
    Joe D.

 interface
>>along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the
>>way to the printer.
    <omitting a great deal>
>>You misunderstood the suggestion.  Print from your host mail application
>>in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes
>>printer output to a file on your PC's disk.  This will eliminate flow
>>control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself,
>>if that is what is causing the problem.  Then you can print the file
>>later, using the DOS PRINT command.
>
>     I understood.  I tried this just now, with a fairly large piece of
>     mail-- 'thought it might make a good test.  There was no loss of
>     characters when I set printer to a file on disk.  Does this help
>     narrow down what's going wrong?
----------------
    Kermit does printing by passing bytes to DOS for handling. If
DOS spends a lot of time talking with your parallel printer then
    a) Kermit's receive buffer can overflow, losing bytes, and/or
    b) interrupts are turned off long enough by DOS and the Bios to
miss bytes arriving from the serial port.

    For case a) Kermit sends XOFF and XON brackets (if that's the
flow control method) to the host to hopefully stop too many new bytes from
being sent while DOS has control. The host may continue to send many
bytes before recognizing the XOFF. Case b) is totally out of the hands of
Kermit.
        File transfers with Kermit protocol have inherent pacing and
retries and all that good stuff. Printing from the host lacks all that
good stuff. With XON/XOFF turned off there is nothing Kermit can do to
notify the host that Kermit and DOS may be rather busy for awhile and
please wait.
    From your last paragraph we can infer your DOS+Bios+printer
are taking a rather long time getting the job done. Since you have
XON/XOFF turned off then at least case a) applies. Should this be
accurate then you need to heavily buffer between DOS and the printer,
by printing to disk or using a print spooler (they have their own
problems) or using a cheap printer box with memory, etc.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 17:21:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00648
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:00:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23545
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:00:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!ncar!newshost.lanl.gov!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Denis McKeon)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 23:21:09 MDT
Organization: Connemara - Computing for People
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <384uo7$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <373nbp$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: chtm.eece.unm.edu
X-Copyright: Copyright 1994 by Denis McKeon
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89)
To:
Status: OR

In <[e-mail]>,
Ken Udut <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>But there are programs that cut/paste sections of a screen.

For DOS, uses arrow keys, runs as a TSR in 4Kb, from ftp.uu.net:

92/10/28 00:00    20881 systems/ibmpc/msdos/simtel/screen/snippr26.zip

(msg both mailed and posted)


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 17:15:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01129
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:16:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24280
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:16:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: DOS KERMIT transfer-only program?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Oct 94 23:15:28 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (KEVIN) writes:
> I currently call MSKERMIT.EXE in order to take advantage of
> the sliding windows protocol; the version of kermit that is
> native to my communications program doesn't allow me to take
> advantage of the speedier options that the full program offers.
>
> This works okay, but I wouldn't mind finding a transfer-protocol-
> only DOS program that implements sliding windows kermit.  I've
> tried the outboard kermit programs posted on SIMTEL, but none
> implement the advanced features.  Is there a shareware or
> freeware kermit transfer program that incorporates sliding
> windows, adjustable block sizes, etc?
--------------
    Yes, but only one: MS-DOS Kermit. However, you will soon have
the choice of three different colors: regular, medium, lite. See the
beta test announcments.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 20:03:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04388
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 03:56:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27315
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 03:56:25 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through")
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <37p0k0$[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:03:50 GMT
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] wrote:
>For what it's worth, a note from the release notes of Pine 3.91:
>-----
>Changes since pine 3.90.

>Pine 3.91 is primarily a bug-fix release, to correct many (but not all)
>of the problems reported with version 3.90.

>IMPORTANT NOTE: if you are plagued by messages saying ^X or ^Q not
>defined, or printers losing parts of messages sent from Pine, then set the
>new feature:  "preserve-start-stop-characters" .  This is needed

    [...]

>Although I don't think that this will help in the specific situation
>discussed (but you never know ;)

    I tried it, and it unfortunately didn't help. :(  Thanks for the
    suggestion, tho...

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 20:17:08 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05702
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 04:25:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28146
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 04:25:04 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: what gives a telebit indigestion?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3822qc$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:17:08 GMT
Lines: 24
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3822qc$[e-mail]>,
Arthur Wouk ([e-mail]) wrote:

>i am running into a problem in trying to improve the speed of kermit
>operating through telebit modems. i was trint=g to unprefix and then
>set prefix via

>set control unprefix all
>set control prefix 0 1 13 129 141

>as suggested by frank da cruz in his postings.

>i am running ckermit5A(189) at both ends, and have an att dataport
>14.4k modem at my end.

    My guess, FWIW, is that you'll have to prefix more control
    characters.  ^C and ^Z, for example, are frequently used on many
    flavors of Unix to cancel and suspend, respectively, a process.
    Try transferring your binary file with 'set control prefixed all'.
    If it works, you know that prefixing is your problem.  As the docs
    say, you'll have to experiment with some test files to find the
    minimum set of control characters that must be prefixed.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 19 20:31:13 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08030
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 05:41:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01134
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 05:41:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!sldgh
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc
Subject: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Oct 94 02:31:13 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 14
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:828 comp.security.misc:12429
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

At my place of employment, we have encountered a potentially dangerous
situation involving MS-Kermit and C-Kermit.  We are moving to MS-Kermit
to take advantage of its TCP/IP abilities and to use its file transfer
capabilities.  We are nervous about allowing users to access the C-Kermit
prompt on our UNIX-based host since it is a partially functional UNIX
prompt.  Users have the ability to delete files, move files, change
directories, etc.  Does anyone know if there is a way to restrict the
commands available to C-Kermit?  Can we restrict users to their home
directories?  Is there a FAQ somewhere that would be helpful?  Any
info is greatly appreciated.

Erik Merkley
Saddleman, Inc.
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 10:12:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09506
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 06:28:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02835
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 06:28:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!susx.ac.uk!leilabd
From: [e-mail] (Leila Burrell-Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: COLS132 tip
Date: 20 Oct 1994 10:12:06 GMT
Organization: Computing Service, University of Sussex, UK
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <385fpm$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: solx1.central.susx.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I recently spent some time trying to set up the COLS132.BAT file for
a machine with an S3 graphics card which was not supplied with a
program for setting the screen mode. I eventually discovered that if
I used Daniel Kegel's screen driver NANSI.SYS (available from Simtel
mirrors and other fine ftp sites), I could put many different
graphics cards into 132 column mode by putting the following line in
COLS132.BAT.
    @echo <ESC>[=85h
where <ESC> is replaced by an escape character (ascii 27). The
corresponding line for COLS80.BAT is:
    @echo <ESC>[=3h
(which should work with any ANSI screen driver).

Hope this is useful to someone else.

Leila
--
Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK
Tel:  [phone]            Fax:  [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
PGP Public Key fingerprint: 18 A3 45 D6 40 6D 62 00  E9 71 AD 18 E8 E2 9F 7D

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 12:47:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10966
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:48:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08605
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:48:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security
Date: 20 Oct 1994 12:47:59 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <385otv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> At my place of employment, we have encountered a potentially dangerous
> situation involving MS-Kermit and C-Kermit.  We are moving to MS-Kermit
> to take advantage of its TCP/IP abilities and to use its file transfer
> capabilities.  We are nervous about allowing users to access the C-Kermit
> prompt on our UNIX-based host since it is a partially functional UNIX
> prompt.  Users have the ability to delete files, move files, change
> directories, etc.  Does anyone know if there is a way to restrict the
> commands available to C-Kermit?  Can we restrict users to their home
> directories?  Is there a FAQ somewhere that would be helpful?  Any
> info is greatly appreciated.
>
Read the document on configuration options, ckccfg.doc, section SECURITY
FEATURES.  If you build C-Kermit with the -DNOPUSH cc flag, it disables
these items.  However, it does not restrict users to their home directories.
You could easily add the CD command to those that are disabled by NOPUSH,
but that does not entirely do the job -- they can still use pathnames in
the many file-related commands.

When C-Kermit is in server mode, you can also restrict access to all sorts
of services by using the DISABLE command.

If you want to take this one off-line, send me email.

- Frank
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 15 02:24:06 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12769
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:14:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10408
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:14:04 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!bonkers.taronga.com!peter
From: [e-mail] (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out???
Distribution: na
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:24:06 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17235 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4103 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:831
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Ted Mittelstaedt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>If you figure out how to make UUCP and cu/kermit/etc share the same port
>please tell me!  :-)

Surely that's not broken again... I fixed it in 386BSD patchkit 0.2.4.

Just make sure they all use the same lock file format.

(need to make pppd use it too)

>Hey, I am looking for a sendmail.cf that works with UUCP,

Look in /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/cf.

That said, I tried it and couldn't quite get it to work so I stripped
things down to the minimum. None of the Allman mailer definitions really
work for Taylor UUCP and moderately smart remote sites, so I use this one:

Mremote,        P=/usr/bin/uux, F=CmDFMh, S=12, R=92,
                A=uux - -r -a$f -gC $h!rmail ($u)

S92 is pretty much the same as the SMTP rewriting rule.

You don't want my sendmail.cf. It routes everything to smail 2.5, so I can
do pathalias without spending all my time hacking sendmail.cf.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 16:27:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04420
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:59:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14816
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:59:46 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!liberator.et.tudelft.nl!dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl!richard
From: [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new???
Date: 20 Oct 1994 16:27:04 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Lines: 34
Message-Id: <3865oo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop) writes:
>> What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why?
>>
>------
>    I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really
>testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final
>release.

Excuse me (I am not the original poster), but there is nothing wrong
about wondering what has changed even if you are a dedicated tester
and you want to know which parts should be tested most carefully since
they are new.
And it also helps to know if something has been changed on purpose, so
you don't try to test the wrong thing and send a report about something
that is supposed to be changed.

Sheesh!

Remember the original announcement of this Beta-6 got lost. I never saw it and
Frank reposted it.

I have noticed before, Joe, that you sometimes reply with an answer
that has not much to do with the original question. I suppose that
has to do with you being busy and reading the original message too quickly
and I suspect this was the case here too.

Anyway, good luck with the new Kermit 3.14 (beta-6 worked great for me
both under DOS and Windows), and please relax (you'll live longer).



Richard.

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 17:53:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14796
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:19:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27966
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:19:02 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!CC.UMontreal.CA!news.uqam.ca!UQuebec.CA!Rene_Ouimet
From: [e-mail] (Rene Ouimet)
Subject: New apc in kermit 3.13
Sender: [e-mail] (news)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:53:24 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: panoramix.uqss.uquebec.ca
Organization: Universite du Quebec
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 1
Apparently-To: [e-mail]



From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 12:15:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29207
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:51:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16594
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:51:30 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Marek Majewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:15:32 GMT
Subject: Kermit & LAN Manager 2.2
Message-Id: <385n14$[e-mail]>
Organization: Hewlett Packard GmbH Germany
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hplntx!hpbbn!isonews.bbn.hp.com!maik
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Keywords: KERMIT LAN MANAGER
Lines: 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: pso_715.poland.hp.com
Summary: Problem with Kermit over LAN Manager
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Does anybody manage to install kermit on LAN Manager 2.x

We use LAN Manager in our office, and I want use Kermit as
UNIX terminal emulator over our local TCP/IP LAN.

I installed dis_pkt9  driver over NDIS drivers but it didn't work ok.
There was a problem during invoking
   LOAD TCPIP
command.

There is no problem when I run pocket version of my Ethernet driver
and Kermit on it, but of course I haven't reach resources provided
by LAN Manager.


Marek Majewski

[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 01:02:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03926
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:12:17 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22723
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:12:16 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!concert!ecsgate!crisp
From: [e-mail] (Russ Crisp)
Subject: why do screen colors change?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 01:02:57 GMT
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


hello eveyone.
i've noticed that when i use kermit (3.14 b6) to telnet to
our vax and use VMS mail, the forground color goes from
bright or bold white to just regular white.  3.13 didn't
do this.  Is this something someone needs to check, or
a possible configuration problem here?  It's very reproducable.
Happens every time.

Thanks, and keep up the good work!  3.14 looks really nice.

rc
--
--
  Russ Crisp, Systems Analyst        |  Ham Call: KA4UXZ
  Western Carolina University        |    BITNET: [e-mail]
  Business Affairs Division          |  Internet: [e-mail]
  Room 311-A, HFR Building           |     Voice: [phone]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 21 01:52:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05885
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:53:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25860
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:52:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Marshall G. Flax)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit & LAN Manager 2.2
Date: 20 Oct 1994 21:52:50 -0400
Organization: Currently, _extremely_ disorganized
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <3876ti$[e-mail]>
References: <385n14$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com
Keywords: KERMIT LAN MANAGER
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <385n14$[e-mail]>,
Marek Majewski <maik@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE> wrote:
>Does anybody manage to install kermit on LAN Manager 2.x
>
>We use LAN Manager in our office, and I want use Kermit as
>UNIX terminal emulator over our local TCP/IP LAN.

I've used the following technique with much success:
(1)  TELAPI -SN3   {limit of three sessions}
(2)  KERMIT
(3)  SET PORT TELAPI xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
(4)  CONNECT

marshall
--
[Marshall G. Flax -- 718-256-3482 -- 8776 16th Ave #2, Brooklyn, NY 11214-5802]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 00:23:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07401
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:25:57 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28428
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:25:56 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!gs.dfn.de!tubsibr!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Scan code \313 for the space key - why?
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 00:23:49 GMT
Organization: Inst.f.Nachrichtentechnik, TU Braunschweig, Germany
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <386qkt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ifn.ing.tu-bs.de
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Kermit V3.13 vs. previous releases:

Why has the scan code for the space key changed from \32 (which is
the ASCII code for space) to \313 ?

Background: I've a keyboard driver that maps the keypad keys to special
scan codes and \313 is used with a keypad key. I just wondered why
the space key code had to be changed.

--Eckart
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eckart Meyer                                     Address:  Schleinitzstr.  23
Institute for Telecommunication                            38092 Braunschweig
Technical University of Braunschweig                                  Germany
                                                 Phone:      [phone]
E-Mail:   [e-mail]                 FAX:        [phone]
VMSmail:  PSI%26245050551130::MEYER (DATEX-P)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 04:56:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14707
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:20:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06838
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:20:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new???
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 21:56:15 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) wrote:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop) writes:
> > What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why?
> >
> ------
>     I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really
> testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final
> release.
>     Joe D.

Well, sounds like he does not want new features tested in new betas now does it
<GRIN>? HMMMMMMM, is this a public beta? I would think it might be
valuable to know if new features are added so that we can test them.
Thank you FDC very much for the valuable input.

Jeff


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 08:39:24 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25587
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:40:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17308
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:40:04 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!alpha2.csd.uwm.edu!randyd
From: [e-mail] (Randall Elton Ding)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: possible ms-beta prob.
Date: 21 Oct 1994 08:39:24 GMT
Organization: Information & Media Technologies, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 18
Distribution: usa
Message-Id: <387uns$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.202
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I have beta-5 now, hercmono card on a 286 machine.
Bullet (hayes like) 2400 baud reliable compressed modem.
There seems to be some problem with inverse video.   Programs on
my unix host like ELM or RN, which display lines in inverse video
sometimes do not appear inverse with the 3.14 beta version.
I am comparing it against the old faithful 3.11 version.
I will alt-x quit and switch between versions.
The problem is sometimes fixed by exiting kermit 3.14 and restarting
it without logging out.
The problem seems to come and go....

{
Randy.
[e-mail]
finger for 1024 bit pgp2.6 public key
key fingerprint 6D A1 28 15 42 BE 9B 6C  C0 1C 7E 88 A6 1E 3A B8
}

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 14:12:14 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06019
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:12:18 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03744
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:12:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Scan code \313 for the space key - why?
Date: 21 Oct 1994 14:12:14 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <388i7u$[e-mail]>
References: <386qkt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <386qkt$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Kermit V3.13 vs. previous releases:
>
> Why has the scan code for the space key changed from \32 (which is
> the ASCII code for space) to \313 ?
>
> Background: I've a keyboard driver that maps the keypad keys to special
> scan codes and \313 is used with a keypad key. I just wondered why
> the space key code had to be changed.
>
This change was made because of popular demand.  People wanted to be able
to map the space bar and all its combinations with Ctrl, Alt, and Shift
separately.  For example, DEC terminal users are accustomed to Ctrl-Space
sending a Null (easier to type than Ctrl-Shift-2).

The change is transparent when using the regular keyboard drivers, but
if you are using a nonstandard driver, you might have to put:

  set key \313 \32

in your MSCUSTOM.INI file.  In version 3.14, we have also differentiated
the Esc and Enter key + Ctrl/Alt/Shift scan codes.

This is progress, no?

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 14:29:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10172
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:08:41 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08401
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:08:38 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!swrinde!pipex!uknet!strath-cs!lorne.stir.ac.uk!is06
From: [e-mail] (I. Stirling)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 21 Oct 1994 14:29:02 GMT
Organization: University of Stirling
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <388j7e$[e-mail]>
References: <37ton5$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Arthur Marsh ([e-mail]) wrote:
: [e-mail] wrote:


: : How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull.
: : I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with

: OK, I'd use Kermit at the end you are typing from, and use its inbuilt telnet
: to connect to the machine that you dial out from to a remote bbs.
This is what I had guessed I needed, my problem is I can't seem to find
how to get kermit on the unix box I'm typing from to talk over telnet.
I can see options in plenty for connecting to modems, but none for telnet.
I may not have been clear in what I'm tring to do, I've got a
unix machine, that I'm connecting to via telnet, I want to transfer
files from a bbs that seems to support kermit onto the unix box, where I
can ftp them from.
Ian Stirling.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 15:26:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11828
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:26:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10117
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:26:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 21 Oct 1994 15:26:16 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <388mio$[e-mail]>
References: <388j7e$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <388j7e$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (I. Stirling)
writes:
> This is what I had guessed I needed, my problem is I can't seem to find
> how to get kermit on the unix box I'm typing from to talk over telnet.
> I can see options in plenty for connecting to modems, but none for telnet.
> I may not have been clear in what I'm tring to do, I've got a
> unix machine, that I'm connecting to via telnet, I want to transfer
> files from a bbs that seems to support kermit onto the unix box, where I
> can ftp them from.
>
C-Kermit has a command, TELNET, for this, provided it was built to include
TCP/IP support (i.e. the CFLAGS in the makefile include -DTCPSOCKET).

If your version of Kermit was built without TCP/IP support, but your UNIX
system includes it, this should be a simple matter of rebuilding C-Kermit
to also include it.

anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary
mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz).

Uncompress, untar, and give the appropriate "make" command.  If your makefile
entry does not include -DTCPSOCKET, then add it.  For further details, read
the comments in the makefile and the file ckuins.doc.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 19:23:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16421
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:28:30 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15343
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:28:27 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:23:35 GMT
Lines: 33
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:843 comp.security.misc:12445
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

>At my place of employment, we have encountered a potentially dangerous
>situation involving MS-Kermit and C-Kermit.  We are moving to MS-Kermit
>to take advantage of its TCP/IP abilities and to use its file transfer
>capabilities.  We are nervous about allowing users to access the C-Kermit
>prompt on our UNIX-based host since it is a partially functional UNIX
>prompt.  Users have the ability to delete files, move files, change
>directories, etc.  Does anyone know if there is a way to restrict the
>commands available to C-Kermit?  Can we restrict users to their home
>directories?  Is there a FAQ somewhere that would be helpful?  Any
>info is greatly appreciated.

    I don't know how you would prevent someone using MS-Kermit from
    getting a DOS prompt, but C-Kermit has an option that you can
    define at compile time to eliminate all commands such as push and
    run, which would enable a user to get access to the Unix operating
    system.  (I don't remember the name of this option offhand, but
    it's described either in the installation or config docs that are
    included in the cku???.tar.* distributions.)  However, this will not
    disable (I don't think) such commands as cd and del.  Short of
    tinkering with the sources, I don't know how you would restrict
    these commands within Kermit.  Ordinarily you wouldn't need to do
    that anyhow, because you would set permissions on your files and
    directories to keep your users out of sensitive areas.  See your
    man page for chmod and a Unix guide for more info about
    permissions.

    Hope that helps.

                        Jeff



From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 18:18:37 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25720
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:18:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25095
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:18:40 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 News
Date: 21 Oct 1994 18:18:37 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <3890lt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Beta-7 of MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 should be ready early next week.  It will
fix some problems that many of you have been reporting, particularly those
relating to command-parsing and execution of TAKE files containing long
and/or continued lines.

Meanwhile, here are a couple FAQ's, with A's:

Q: My old command file doesn't work - comments are no longer treated as
   comments.  For example: "set block 3;Use CRC error detection".

A: The syntax for trailing comments is now a bit stricter.  In order for
   a semicolon to be regarded as comment introducer, it must either be
   the first character on the line, or else be preceded by a space or tab.
   This is to allow semicolons to be included more naturally in commands
   like "send foo.bar;3" or "output \27[?63;15;3;2;1c", and it is also
   consistent with C-Kermit rules.

Q: My system hangs (crashes, explodes, ...) when I use version 3.14, but
   version 3.13 works OK.

A: Most likely this is because of the change in default for SET TERMINAL
   EXPANDED-MEMORY from OFF to ON.  If Kermit tries to use expanded memory
   but expanded memory is configured incorrectly, then terrible things can
   happen.  In Beta-7, the default for this will be put back to OFF.
   Meanwhile, if you are experiencing any sort of problem, begin by giving
   this command (SET TERM EXPANDED OFF) yourself.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 15:41:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13323
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:13:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27621
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:12:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!cmcl2!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!nobody
From: [e-mail] (Victor Boyko)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Date: 21 Oct 1994 11:41:04 -0400
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <388neg$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: doc.cs.nyu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello!

I have been using msk314 beta6 for about an hour now. It has one very
important improvement--the new version works with my internal PPI
modem on COM4 while the old one didn't. However, there is an annoyance
that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 (and also VT220, VT102 and
VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the
host software (namely emacs) expects 'ESC[A', 'ESC[B', etc. I had to
manually assign these strings to the arrows.

-Victor

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 23:37:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21273
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:35:24 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07676
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:35:21 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!chinook!ken
From: [e-mail] (Ken Pizzini)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc
Subject: Re: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security
Date: 21 Oct 1994 23:37:04 GMT
Organization: What, me?
Lines: 33
Message-Id: <389jb0$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:846 comp.security.misc:12452
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Jeffrey Hurwit <[e-mail]> wrote:
>      Ordinarily you wouldn't need to do
>    that anyhow, because you would set permissions on your files and
>    directories to keep your users out of sensitive areas.  See your
>    man page for chmod and a Unix guide for more info about
>    permissions.

Also check out the chroot() system call.  For example, you could
set up a directory with a kermit executable, and a small suid
wrapper program as follows:

$ cat safekermit.c
#include <unistd.h>
int main(){
    chroot("/path/of/safe/dir");
    chdir("/");
    setuid(getuid());
    execl("kermit", "bin/kermit", "-x", (const char *)0);
}
$ ls -ld safekermit
---s--x--x   1 root     bin        416117 Oct 21 15:20 safekermit
$ cd /path/of/safe/dir
$ ls -ld . bin bin/kermit
drwxrwxrwx   3 kermit   kermit         96 Oct 21 15:20 .
d--x--x--x   2 bin      bin            96 Oct 21 15:20 bin
---x--x--x   1 bin      bin        416117 Oct 21 15:20 kermit


This would limit to the subtree rooted at /path/of/safe/dir the potential
damage that someone could possibly do.

        --Ken Pizzini

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 22 20:52:32 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02421
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:47:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08366
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:47:46 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!uquebec.ca!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
From: [e-mail] (Rene Ouimet)
Sender: [e-mail] (news)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Control: cancel <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: panoramix.uqss.uquebec.ca
Organization: Universite du Quebec
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Subject: cmsg cancel <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:52:32 GMT
Approved: [e-mail]
Lines: 1
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

cancel <[e-mail]>

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 23 05:26:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02463
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:48:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08387
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:48:41 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <388neg$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 05:26:10 GMT
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <388neg$[e-mail]>,
Victor Boyko ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Hello!

>modem on COM4 while the old one didn't. However, there is an annoyance
>that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 (and also VT220, VT102 and
>VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the
>host software (namely emacs) expects 'ESC[A', 'ESC[B', etc. I had to
>manually assign these strings to the arrows.

    This brings up a pain-in-the-neck situation with respect to VT
    emulation: Some systems and applications expect '^[[A', etc., while
    others (particularly IBM mainframes) expect '^[OA'.  I once checked
    the file that has the key bindings for our tn3270, and found that
    it is set up for either (so is the default .joerc, for that
    matter).  Oh well, I guess it's fortunate that keys can easily be
    remapped in Kermit with text strings in the INI file, unlike some
    other comm software out there...

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 23 01:08:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06482
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:43:43 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11946
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:43:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!hpg30a.csc.cuhk.hk!chan1372
From: [e-mail] (Miriam Chan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Date: 23 Oct 1994 01:08:11 GMT
Organization: The Chinese University of Hong Kong
Lines: 31
Message-Id: <38cd1r$[e-mail]>
References: <388neg$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: sparc2.cs.cuhk.hk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Victor Boyko ([e-mail]) wrote:
:-) However, there is an annoyance that was not present in  3.13.  In  VT320
:-) (and  also  VT220,  VT102  and  VT100) the  arrows  send  'ESC  A', 'ESC
:-) B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the host software (namely emacs) expects


    Yes, I found that the binding of arrow keys really have problem.
It inserts a '^[' instead of '[' in the escape sequence. I am using tcsh,
where the default file-completion is done by '^[^['. So, everytime I hit
the up arrow, I saw the filenames in my root directory :-( Plus a 'A'.

    I think I should have the time to hack and report the bugs in
source code, but til now I got too many things to do, although I still
have the time to follow it ;-).


Regards,
3/06)z.
--
********************************************************************************
* 9q6l&a'} / E-mail address      ::=  [e-mail]                      *
* "W"`"Q$F&W / IRC nick          ::=  WMChan                                   *
********************************************************************************
* 3/06)z            \  _____________  /  Chan Wai Ming, Miriam                 *
* -;4d$$$e$j>G      = |             | =  The Chinese University of Hong Kong   *
* 9q$l-p:b(t        = | /-\|/-\|/.. | =  Computer Science                      *
* %|&~/Z            / |_____________| \  Year 4 (Undergraduate)                *
*                     ^^^^^ Intelligent                                        *
*                            Chinese-English Translator ;)                     *
********************************************************************************


From [e-mail] Thu Oct 20 08:30:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06654
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:49:31 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12095
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:49:30 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new???
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Oct 94 14:30:22 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3865oo$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3865oo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman) writes:
> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Bishop) writes:
>>> What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why?
>>>
>>------
>>    I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really
>>testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final
>>release.
>
> Excuse me (I am not the original poster), but there is nothing wrong
> about wondering what has changed even if you are a dedicated tester
> and you want to know which parts should be tested most carefully since
> they are new.
> And it also helps to know if something has been changed on purpose, so
> you don't try to test the wrong thing and send a report about something
> that is supposed to be changed.
------------
    Wondering is one thing, demanding an explanation (", why?") is another
and that's what I reacted to. Betas change at a rapid rate, faster than we
can take time to type up a long explanation of what's new, though we do try.
Not every change comes from this list, but we do lay it out for folks by
release time or sooner if possible.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 16:25:36 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26616
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:46:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05127
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:46:24 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Oct 94 22:25:36 MDT
References: <388neg$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 53
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <388neg$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Victor Boyko) writes:
> Hello!
>
> I have been using msk314 beta6 for about an hour now. It has one very
> important improvement--the new version works with my internal PPI
> modem on COM4 while the old one didn't. However, there is an annoyance
> that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 (and also VT220, VT102 and
> VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the
> host software (namely emacs) expects 'ESC[A', 'ESC[B', etc. I had to
> manually assign these strings to the arrows.
----------

    No need, and a red flag that something else is at work. Let's
explore a little to discover that thing. Cutout from Kermit distribution
file msvibm.vt (this is also in the User's Manual book "Using MS-DOS Kermit"):

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below, the acronyms CSI and SS3 stand for 8-bit control codes in an 8-bit
environment or for their 7-bit equivalents "ESC [" and "ESC O", respectively.
Command SET TERMINAL CONTROL {8-BIT | 7-BIT}, and an equivalent command from
the host, determines the usage for output text; use of parity forces 7-bit
mode.  CSI is decimal 155, SS3 is decimal 143.  Similarly, DCS is decimal 144
or ESC P and ST is decimal 156 or ESC \.  APC is decimal 159 or ESC _.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Codes sent by DEC and Heath arrow keys
Key        Verb    IBM    VT320/VT102 mode    VT52/H19 mode
            key    Cursor    Application    Cursor or Application

up        uparr    up    CSI A    SS3 A        ESC A
down        dnarr    down    CSI B    SS3 B        ESC B
right        rtarr    right    CSI C    SS3 C        ESC C
left        lfarr    left    CSI D    SS3 D        ESC D

    Now, the curious thing is if the comms channel is presumed to be
8-bits wide then CSI goes out just fine as an 8-bit control code. But
if the channel chops the high bit then what's left of CSI looks exactly
the same as ESC (155 - 128 = 27). Hmmmmm.
    We've warned folks time and again that comms channels may not
be clean or 8-bits wide and there is no safe way of discovering these
details automatically. And this seems to be such a case.
    Since Kermit can't know the channel eats the high bit we educate
Kermit on the matter. SET PARITY SPACE in Kermit says the channel changes
all high bits to zeros, so please accomodate. And Kermit does so by sending
eight bit control codes as seven bit equivalents. CSI goes to ESC [. Ah ah!
See top line of cutout.
    Notice something else in the cutout. The arrow keys send different
things depending on the mode induced by the host; one string does not fit
all occassions. That's why these keys are Kermit keyboard "verbs", because
Kermit knows which string to send under each condition without bothering
the user.
    I'm glad to hear that things are better with your modem. That's
always a sensitive area.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 21 04:35:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26904
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:52:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05410
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:52:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: why do screen colors change?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Oct 94 10:35:03 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Russ Crisp) writes:
>
> hello eveyone.
> i've noticed that when i use kermit (3.14 b6) to telnet to
> our vax and use VMS mail, the forground color goes from
> bright or bold white to just regular white.  3.13 didn't
> do this.  Is this something someone needs to check, or
> a possible configuration problem here?  It's very reproducable.
> Happens every time.
>
> Thanks, and keep up the good work!  3.14 looks really nice.
---------------
    There is a bug in the handling of bold video attribute. It's
fixed in beta-7, but beta-7 has some other things requiring time
to straighten out. Thus we won't be issuing beta-7 until after the
weekend.
    Thanks,
    Joe D.

terly about the Control-space part not yielding \0 in
Kermit I had to alias the space bar to s
an codes rather than its
natural ASCII value \32.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 23 11:58:33 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03209
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:07:24 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26312
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:07:23 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!news.cuny.edu!n52bc
From: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: procomm-kermit
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 15:58:33 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/University Computer Center
Lines: 5
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunyvm.cuny.edu
Disclaimer: Author bears full responsibility for this post
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Can somebody help me.  I have a dial up account to the internet.  In order to
download stuff I use a version of procomm (shareware) that supports the
kermit protocol.  But I am not sure how I would go about using kermit to
download.  If anyone knows what I'm talking about or knows how to help, please
respond.  I will greatly appreciate it.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 23 23:58:07 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14363
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 20:11:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14216
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 20:11:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!asuvax!noao!CS.Arizona.EDU!news.Arizona.EDU!nolan
From: [e-mail] (Mike Nolan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Date: 23 Oct 1994 23:58:07 GMT
Organization: Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <38etaf$[e-mail]>
References: <388neg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: crow.lpl.arizona.edu
Cc:

> (Victor Boyko) writes:
>> VT102 and VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D'

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Below, the acronyms CSI and SS3 stand for 8-bit control codes in an 8-bit
>environment or for their 7-bit equivalents "ESC [" and "ESC O", respectively.
>Command SET TERMINAL CONTROL {8-BIT | 7-BIT}, and an equivalent command from
>the host, determines the usage for output text; use of parity forces 7-bit

As I understand that: if I have set terminal control 7, I should get ESC [ A
etc?  show term says Term controls: 7-bit.  I still get \233 A (the 8-bit CSI)
I explicitly set term control 7, and I still get \233 A.
I set term byte 7 and set parity space, and then I get \033 A.

This is using vt102 emulation in MSK 3.14 beta-6


-Mike Nolan
--
Mike Nolan nolan@{lpl.arizona.edu,arizvms.bitnet,looney.span}
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona, Tucson AZ 85721 USA
Phone [phone] or message at 2234; Fax [phone]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 00:09:59 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16942
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 21:12:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18484
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 21:12:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!chili.CC.Lehigh.EDU!lusgr
From: [e-mail] (Stephen G. Roseman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Date: 24 Oct 1994 00:09:59 GMT
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <38eu0n$[e-mail]>
References: <388neg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chili.cc.lehigh.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

:     No need, and a red flag that something else is at work.
:     Joe D.

I noticed the same thing.  For example F1 is defined to be \KPF1, and sends
out ESC O P normally.   However, with SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT, it becomes
C-O P which doesn't seem to be right.  Uparrow normally is ESC [ A but
becomes ESC A.  I had just discovered the cause, but was going to wait until
the beta 7, but since you brought it up...

I had been using the SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT to get the PC graphics
characters displayed properly, and when I first tried 3.14 B6, my function
keys stopped working.

Steve

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Roseman
Lehigh University Computing Center
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 08:20:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14118
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:06:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23440
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:06:33 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!newshub.ariel.cs.yorku.ca!cs932070
From: [e-mail] (ARCHIMEDES L TRAJANO)
Subject: APC's and auto-downloading
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: York University, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:20:35 GMT
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


How do I set my kermit program to autodownload with APC's when I type in
kermit -s <filename> on the remote computer?
BTW, the APC documentation is not quite clear to me which is why I am
asking this question.

--
Archimedes L. Trajano        _/_/_/ _/   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
[e-mail]  _/  _/ _/     _/  York University
(IRC: Overdrive)           _/_/_/ _/     _/  Department of Computer Science
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  _/ _/_/_/ _/  North York, Ontario, Canada

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 13:18:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14845
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:18:11 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24521
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:18:08 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: APC's and auto-downloading
Date: 24 Oct 1994 13:18:04 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <38gc6c$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(ARCHIMEDES L TRAJANO) writes:
> How do I set my kermit program to autodownload with APC's when I type in
> kermit -s <filename> on the remote computer?
>
The host application must send an APC escape sequence containing "receive",
e.g.

  kermit -C "apc receive, send foo.bar"

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 13:19:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14906
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:19:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24598
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:19:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Deleting files after send
Date: 24 Oct 1994 13:19:40 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <38gc9c$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(ARCHIMEDES L TRAJANO) writes:
>
> How do I delete files after sending them through the kermit -s <filename>
> command, like the sz -u command in Zmodem?  (BTW, I do not want this as the
> default)
>
You'll have to write a macro for this, e.g.

  define usend send \%1, if success delete \%1

and then use "usend" instead of send.  If you want to access this command
from the system command line, do it like this:

  kermit -C "usend foo.bar"

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 16:25:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29981
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 12:25:27 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10803
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 12:25:26 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-7 Ready for Testing
Date: 24 Oct 1994 16:25:20 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 57
Message-Id: <38gn5g$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-7 is now available for anonymous ftp from
kermit.columbia.edu:

  kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip  - Binary ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file

The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA.

Changes and fixes include:

 . Windows PIF file: Program version number corrected to 3.14; hardwired
   pathname is now avoided on the assumption that KERMIT.EXE has been
   installed somewhere in your PATH, so now the PIF file does not need
   alteration by those who do not install KERMIT.EXE in C:\KERMIT (follow
   the Windows installation instructions in the top-level READ.ME file).

 . Fossil code now reinitializes the fossil driver upon return from DOS;
   fossil/BBS operations should work smoother now.

 . TAKE-file reader bugs fixed; TAKE-file command lines can be up to
   1000 characters in length (hyphenated or not).

 . More work on improving ESC key word completion in the command line
   parser.

 . Various other fixes to command parser, mainly involving improper
   responses to illegal commands.

 . Tektronix-mode escape-back/connect-again now goes back to Tek screen
   as it should, rather than to text screen.

 . Status-line legend 7n1 is now explained in Alt-h popup help screen.

 . In ANSI emulation, Ctrl-L is now treated as ANSI home-and-clear-screen.

 . SET TERM EXPANDED-MEMORY default is back to OFF.  Using expanded
   memory, if it is present, by default should be safe, but it seems that
   memory-management configurations are often incorrect and/or
   inconsistent (e.g. between DOS and Windows).  Also, additional
   consistency/sanity checks are made when you SET TERM EXPANDED ON.

 . SET TERM CONTROLS {7,8} again operates as advertised; thus arrow keys,
   etc, send 7-bit (default) or 8-bit CSI.  Prior to Beta-7, arrow-key
   (etc) sequences would be improperly sent in 8-bit form when TERMINAL
   CONTROLS 7 if TERM CHARACTER-SET was TRANSPARENT.  This should clear up
   the problems recently reported with arrow keys, etc.

 . Visual bold attribute in terminal emulation corrected to track user
   preference set via the SET TERM COLOR command.

 . SHOW TERM now says "underscore" rather than "underline", to agree with
   the SET TERM UNDERSCORE command.

Please continue to send Beta test reports by e-mail to [e-mail].

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 15:20:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07263
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:08:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02277
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:08:09 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!CC.UMontreal.CA!news.uqam.ca!UQuebec.CA!Rene_Ouimet
From: [e-mail] (Rene Ouimet)
Subject: New apc in kermit 3.13
Sender: [e-mail] (news)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:20:12 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: panoramix.uqss.uquebec.ca
Organization: Universite du Quebec
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I would like to ask if anybody has a way of sending an apc string
from a host machine to a ms-kermit user 'asking' or requesting
ms-kermit to send back it's version.

The reason for this is that I want to be able to determine if the
user is running an older version of ms-kermit that supports the old
terminals/terminals functions or the new apc functions...

Thanks for any help...

[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 19:06:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11360
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:07:05 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08094
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:06:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: New apc in kermit 3.13
Date: 24 Oct 1994 19:06:55 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 42
Message-Id: <38h0kf$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rene
Ouimet) writes:
> I would like to ask if anybody has a way of sending an apc string
> from a host machine to a ms-kermit user 'asking' or requesting
> ms-kermit to send back it's version.
>
> The reason for this is that I want to be able to determine if the
> user is running an older version of ms-kermit that supports the old
> terminals/terminals functions or the new apc functions...
>
Well, this is tricky.  Starting in version 3.14, Kermit sends its
version as part of the Answerback string:

  MS-DOS KERMIT_314_term-type<CR>

In version 3.13, the answerback string was:

  MS-DOS KERMIT

(but with no CR on the end).

In version 3.12 and earlier, there was no answerback message.

Thus, if you can get each PC user to SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK ON,
and then send an ENQ character (Ctrl-E), and if you get back
MS-DOS KERMIT" in response, then it's version 3.13 or later and therefore
OK to use APC.  But then, if you can get them to SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK
ON, you can just as easily get them to SET TERMINAL APC ON.

I don't think there is any good way to do this that will always work.
In 3.0 through 3.12, the TERMINALR/S macros had no definitions, and so
it does no good to send the corresponding sequences -- you might or might
not get anything back, and even if something does come back you can't
predict what it will be.

In 3.13 and later you can't use an APC sequence to ask any questions, because
any function (like OUTPUT) that could send arbibrary material to the host
in response to an escape sequence is disabled by default, for safety.
Similarly, answerback messages are also disabled by default, though this is
not for safety as much as it is a defense against noisy connections.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 23 14:01:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15750
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:12:36 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14265
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:12:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Oct 94 20:01:09 MDT
References: <388neg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <38eu0n$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 30
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38eu0n$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stephen G. Roseman) writes:
> :     No need, and a red flag that something else is at work.
> :     Joe D.
>
> I noticed the same thing.  For example F1 is defined to be \KPF1, and sends
> out ESC O P normally.   However, with SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT, it becomes
> C-O P which doesn't seem to be right.  Uparrow normally is ESC [ A but
> becomes ESC A.  I had just discovered the cause, but was going to wait until
> the beta 7, but since you brought it up...
>
> I had been using the SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT to get the PC graphics
> characters displayed properly, and when I first tried 3.14 B6, my function
> keys stopped working.
>
> Steve
-------
    Ok, I now understand the problem. It's fixed in the next beta
release, as they say.
    Situation is like this. With TRANSPARENT GRight some people still
want to deal with glyphs in the C1 8-bit control area, and they may do so
via ALT-nnn and the like. Thus for TRANSPARENT 8-bit stuff is sent as-is.
But the keyboard verbs (arrows etc) went though the same procedure, and
thus could come out as SS3 P and so forth. Comments on choppage still apply.
In beta-7 have added a separate pathway for the keyboard verbs such that
they are converted into 7-bit equivalents if SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT
has been given.
    Beta-7 will be available Monday, baring any last minute discoveries.
Since News postings to/from my place take at least a day to cross the country
you may see beta-7 before this message.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 19:47:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18880
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:48:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18101
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:48:10 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!EU.net!uknet!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!doc.ic.ac.uk!susx.ac.uk!leilabd
From: [e-mail] (Leila Burrell-Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-KERMIT (VT320) termcap entry for unix -- what is it?
Date: 24 Oct 1994 19:47:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Service, University of Sussex, UK
Lines: 205
Distribution: comp
Message-Id: <38h2vt$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: solx1.central.susx.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen ([e-mail]) wrote:
% I am using MS-Kermit 3.13 and is very pleased with it.  I would very
% much like to have the best usage of the VT320 capabilites, but have so
% far failed to find any termcaps with either the zip file I retreived
% last year, or at kermit.columbia.edu or in our own /etc/termcap

% Does anybody have a pointer to a good termcap entry for kermit?

Here you go. Perhaps the Kermit team would like to pick it up and
include it in the distribution. I haven't been watching comp.terminals
lately, so I don't know if there's a more recent version.

Leila
--
# Description: DEC vt320 termcap entry
#
#       Created by: [e-mail] on 10 Feb 1990.
# Last modified by: [e-mail] on 20 Mar 1990.
# Posted to USENET newsgroup comp.terminals on 15 Feb 1990.
# Reposted to USENET newsgroup comp.terminals on 20 Mar 1990.
# ------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# This vt320 termcap entry is a test entry for a vt320.  (Imagine that? ;-)
# It was written from scratch.  All (well, at least, most :) of the
# capabilities have been commented and should be approximately in the order
# that they are in the entry.  I took some educated guesses at some of
# these, with info from the vt320 "Installing and Using .." manual and from
# some other termcap entries.  I have yet to test the status line stuff, I
# will probably test it soon, though.  Where I wasn't sure what to put for
# a capability, I added a comment of some sort.  Also, the initialization
# string has comments about what each control sequence is supposed to do.
# If you have any comments or questions regarding this termcap entry, or if
# you see something I missed, please send me a note.  Thanks...
#
# Enjoy!!
#
#            -jeff
#
# p.s. Yeah, all these comments don't need to be included, but (who knows?)
# they might be useful for some of those out there that have not built a
# termcap entry before, or have forgotten.  If any changes are made that I
# feel should be reposted, I will probably only post the main termcap entry
# with the comment for the `is' capability only.  But, then...I dunno.. :)
#
# Jeff Kellem
# INTERNET: [e-mail]   (or [e-mail])
# UUCP: ...!harvard!bu-cs!composer
# ------------------------------------------------------------------------
#    hs: has status line
#    es: other display cmds work while writing the status line
#        (i.e. escape strings work)
##    ts: cmds to move cursor into status line
#        moves to status line, moves cursor to 1,1 in status line (?),
#        then clears to end of line
#    fs: cmds to move cursor back from status line to previous position
#    ds: cmds to disable the display of the status line
#        maybe we should just set status line type to none for disable
#        as in,        :ds=\E[0$~
#        but, then, may have to chg to host-writable stat line to
#        move into it.  :(  probably leave it alone for now..
#        anyways, would rather just keep it host-writable..
#        currently, we're doing ..
#        moves to status line, moves cursor to 1,1 in status line (?),
#        clears to end of line, then moves cursor back to prev position
#    im: enter insert mode
#    ei: exit insert mode
#    IC: insert N chars
#    mi: safe to move cursor in insert mode. I'm assuming that the
#        terminal remains in insert mode. (I need better technical docs ;-)
#    dc: cmds to delete one char position at the cursor
#    DC: cmds to delete N chars
#    dm & ed: enter/exit delete mode .. should these be here? NO del mode!
#        in some termcap entries they seem to be set to nothing, as in:
#        :dm=:ed=:  ... and others they are nonexistent
#    al & AL: insert one/N line/s
#    dl & DL: delete one/N line/s
#    cs: set scroll region - 2 args, top and bottom lines of region
#    sf: cmds to scroll one line up
#    sr: cmds to scroll one line down
#    am: flag says wrap on margin
#    xn: flag says cursor on last column/line wrap glitch
#    ce: cmds to clear to EOL
#    cl: cmds to clear entire screen and position cursor at upper left
#    cd: cmds to clear the line the cursor is on to end of screen
#    ec: cmds to clear N chars, starting with char cursor is on
#    cm: cmds to move to cursor position LINE, COLUMN
#    ho: cmds to move cursor to home position, upper left corner
# @@@ NO ll: cursor to lower left ??
#    cr: cursor to beginning of line ?? set to ^M right now, why not?
#    nw: cmds to move cursor to beginning of next line
#    ta: cmds to move cursor forward to next hardware tab
# @@@ NO bt: NO backward tab that I can find .. so, NOT included
#    bs: ADDED 27 Feb 1990, nethack and some older programs need this
#        `bs' capability is obsolete now, though...
#    le: cmds to move cursor left one column - should this just be ^H ??
#    bc: OBSOLETE - same as `le' capability --REMOVED
#    nd: cmds to move cursor right one column
#    up & do: cmds to move cursor up/down one line
#    LE,RE,UP,DO: move cursor N of above lower case capabilities
#    sc & rc: save/restore cursor position
#    so & se: start/end standout mode (reverse video)
#    ms: says that it is safe to move cursor in standout mode..
#        is this ok??? @@@ ?? seems so..but, maybe not..who knows?
#    mb: cmds to turn on blinking attribute
#    md: cmds to turn on bold/double-bright attribute
#    mk: cmds for invisible attribute
#    mr: cmds to turn on reverse attribute
#    me: cmds to turn OFF all attributes
# @@@ What about uc & ul capabilities .. old underlining stuff..??
# @@@   doesn't seem like vt320 can deal with it, but who knows?
# @@@ What to do about alternate character set??  vt320 can handle more
# @@@ than one alternate set, it looks like.
#    vi & ve: cmds to turn cursor off & on
#    bl: cmds to sounds bell
#    ks: cmds to put numeric keypad and cursor keys in application mode
#    ke: cmds to put numeric keypad and cursor keys back to normal
#    kl/kr/ku/kd: chars sent by left/right/up/down arrow keys in appl mode
#    k1 .. k4: chars sent by pf1 .. pf4 keys
#    l1 .. l4: strings on pf1 .. pf4 keys (really, "pf1" to "pf4")
#       @@@      put here so as not to confuse with f1 to f4 keys
#    kD: chars sent by the `Remove' key ("delete char" key)
#    kI: chars sent by the `Insert Here' key ("ins char" or
#        "enter ins mode" key)
#    kN: chars sent by the `Next Screen' key ("next page" key)
#    kP: chars sent by the `Prev Screen' key ("previous page" key)
#      what about "scroll forward/reverse" key capabilties instead?? nah..
#    is: initialization string
#        exit vt52 mode
#        set operating mode to vt300 mode, 7-bit controls (default)
#        soft terminal reset
#        set screen width to 80 columns, side-effect => clears screen
#        set screen mode to dark background
#        OVERRIDE disabling of autowrap (from soft reset)
#        probably shouldn't, but who cares?  :)
#        set autorepeat mode on
#        set scrolling to jump scroll
#        set keyboard usage mode to typewriter
#        set status line type to host-writable
#  @@@  set tab stops to every 8 positions (only first 9, for 80 col)
#  @@@  *NO* need to set tab stops.  `tset' should try to do it, since `ct'
#  @@@  and `st' capabilities exist.  It uses a combination of `ct', `st',
#  @@@  and `ch' (or `cm') capabilities to set tab stops at every 8 pos.
#
#    rs: reset string, same as `is' capability, right now..
#        any other suggestions?
#    st: cmds to set tab stop at current cursor column
#    ct: cmds to clear all tab stops
#
db|vt320|vt300|vt320-am|vt300-am|dec vt320 w/am:\
    :co#80:li#24:\
    :hs:\
    :es:\
    :ts=\E[1$}\E[;H\E[K:\
    :fs=\E[0$}:\
    :ds=\E[1$}\E[;H\E[K\E[0$}:\
    :im=\E[4h:ei=\E[4l:mi:\
    :IC=\E[%d@:\
    :dc=\E[P:DC=\E[%dP:\
    :al=\E[L:AL=\E[%dL:dl=\E[M:DL=\E[%dM:\
    :cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:sf=\ED:sr=\EM:\
    :am:xn:\
    :ce=\E[K:cl=\E[H\E[J:cd=\E[J:ec=\E[%dX:\
    :cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:ho=\E[H:\
    :cr=^M:nw=\EE:ta=^I:bs:\
    :le=\E[D:nd=\E[C:up=\E[A:do=\E[B:\
    :LE=\E[%dD:RI=\E[%dC:UP=\E[%dA:DO=\E[%dB:\
    :sc=\E7:rc=\E8:\
    :so=\E[7m:se=\E[27m:ms:\
    :mb=\E[5m:md=\E[1m:mk=\E[m:mr=\E[7m:me=\E[m:\
    :us=\E[4m:ue=\E[24m:\
    :vi=\E[?25l:ve=\E[?25h:\
    :bl=^G:\
    :ks=\E[?1h\E=:ke=\E[?1l\E>:\
    :kl=\EOD:kr=\EOC:ku=\EOA:kd=\EOB:\
    :k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:\
    :l1=PF1:l2=PF2:l3=PF3:l4=PF4:\
    :kD=\E[3~:kI=\E[2~:kN=\E[6~:kP=\E[5~:\
    :is=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\
    :rs=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\
    :st=\EH:ct=\E[3g:
#
db|vt320-w|vt300-w|dec vt300:\
    :co#132:\
    :is=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3h\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\
    :tc=vt320:
#
#    da: says scroll up may bring back some lines..does it? haven't
#        tried it.  (Maybe should get rid of `da'...up to you.)
#    Are there any other enhancements made in Kermit's vt320 emulation
#    that I should add?
#
de|vt320-kermit|mskermit|kermit-vt320|MS-Kermit v3.00 vt320 emulation:\
    :ch=\E[%dG:cv=\E[%dd:\
    :da:tc=vt320:
# these names are getting ridiculous ..
de|vt320-kermit-w|mskermit-w|kermit-vt320-w|MS-Kermit vt320 (wide):\
    :co#132:\
    :is=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3h\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\
    :tc=vt320-kermit:
# End of vt320 termcap entry
--
Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK
Tel:  [phone]            Fax:  [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
PGP Public Key fingerprint: 18 A3 45 D6 40 6D 62 00  E9 71 AD 18 E8 E2 9F 7D

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 19:27:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22855
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:44:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23552
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:44:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (David Harnick-Shapiro)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen?
Date: 24 Oct 1994 12:27:53 -0700
Organization: UC Irvine, Department of ICS
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <38h1rp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: binky.ics.uci.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Executive Summary:
    Is there an option to prevent the CONNECT command from
    clearing the screen?

Fuller Description:
    I'm writing a TAKE file;  it handles everything up to the
    prompt for the user's login name, at which point control
    is handed over the user (via CONNECT).  But executing
    CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved
    by the loss of the prompt for the login name.

    I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts
    are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are
    doing the blanking).

Apology:
    If this is not the right newsgroup for a question of this
    level, I do apologise.  I won't bore you with the list of
    places I looked before posting, but, honest, I did look :-)

--------
David Harnick-Shapiro   Support Group, Department of       [e-mail]
                      Information and Computer Science   ucbvax!ucivax!david
                      University of California, Irvine

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 22:04:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24525
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:04:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25469
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:04:10 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen?
Date: 24 Oct 1994 22:04:04 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 33
Message-Id: <38hb0k$[e-mail]>
References: <38h1rp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38h1rp$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David
Harnick-Shapiro) writes:
> Executive Summary:
>     Is there an option to prevent the CONNECT command from
>     clearing the screen?
>
> Fuller Description:
>     I'm writing a TAKE file;  it handles everything up to the
>     prompt for the user's login name, at which point control
>     is handed over the user (via CONNECT).  But executing
>     CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved
>     by the loss of the prompt for the login name.
>
If the command parser is active, then the terminal emulator is not
active, and vice versa.  There is no screen to clear.  The terminal
screen is created when you first CONNECT, which is after your
script program has finished executing.  There is no way around this.

To soothe your users, maybe you could add a message to your script
program like:

  echo Your are now logged in to blah.  In a moment, you will be
  echo connected to blah.  Please do not be unnerved by the blank screen.
  getc \%a Press any key to begin your session...

>     I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts
>     are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are
>     doing the blanking).
>
Version 3.13 has been out since June 1993, and we are now beta-testing
version 3.14 (note: the GETC command in the example above is new to 3.14).

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 23:54:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05166
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:05:29 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10734
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:05:28 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!cmcl2!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!nobody
From: [e-mail] (Victor Boyko)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Looping until keypress
Date: 24 Oct 1994 19:54:41 -0400
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 35
Message-Id: <38hhg1$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: doc.cs.nyu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello!

I need a macro to output a carriage return (\13) every five seconds
until any key is pressed. I put the following in my mscustom.ini file

def loop -
:l -
set alarm 5,-
pause 5,-
if not alarm goto e,-
output \13,-
goto l,-
:e -
end

However, it does not work when I type loop from the command line.
Sometimes it just returns to the prompt in 5 seconds,
and sometimes it sends \13 every 5 seconds, but does not exit when I
press a key. Strangely, if I make a script loop.scr

:l
set alarm 5
pause 5
if not alarm goto e
output \13
goto l
:e
end

then 'take loop.scr' does exactly what I want. However, this is
inconvenient since I have to be in the directory where loop.scr is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Victor

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 22:07:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05286
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:08:00 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10901
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:07:58 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!gems.vcu.edu!fritz
From: [e-mail] (J. E. Fritz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: New apc in kermit 3.13
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Oct 94 18:07:23 -0400
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rene Ouimet) writes:
> I would like to ask if anybody has a way of sending an apc string
> from a host machine to a ms-kermit user 'asking' or requesting
> ms-kermit to send back it's version.
>
> The reason for this is that I want to be able to determine if the
> user is running an older version of ms-kermit that supports the old
> terminals/terminals functions or the new apc functions...

We use the PRODUCT macro for this, since it is supported in both 3.12
and 3.13.  On the other hand, we were lucky enough to have started doing
this in 3.12, so the move to 3.13 was fairly smooth.

-Fritz

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 04:15:17 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14666
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:21:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27127
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:21:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!romulus.ncsc.mil!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Richard L. Hamilton)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Looking for multiple phone number macro
Date: 25 Oct 1994 00:15:17 -0400
Organization: ncsc
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <38i0ol$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: romulus.ncsc.mil
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Anyone have a macro for dialing multiple phone numbers in C-kermit?
Ok to assume same parameters (baud, parity, etc).  It should
try the numbers in sequence, repeating that sequence until a successful
connection was made or it was interrupted.

I was envisioning a macro that could be used in .ksd, and the first
time it was invoked would load an array from a new file, say $HOME/.kgd,
that would define named groups of related numbers.  These named groups
would be used with the macro in place of the phone number, and the
macro itself would be used in place of the "call" macro.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten quite comfortable enought to write it
myself yet, but being something that seems to me pretty obvious, I'm
hoping someone else has.
--
                      I compute, therefore I am.
My opinions are strictly by own, and should not be construed to represent
anyone else.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 05:28:18 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19858
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:05:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02696
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:05:52 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <38h1rp$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:28:18 GMT
Lines: 41
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38h1rp$[e-mail]>,
David Harnick-Shapiro ([e-mail]) wrote:

>    I'm writing a TAKE file;  it handles everything up to the
>    prompt for the user's login name, at which point control
>    is handed over the user (via CONNECT).  But executing
>    CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved
>    by the loss of the prompt for the login name.

    My suggestion would be to have your login script (your TAKE file)
    prompt the user for his/her login name and password, and put these
    values into variables for later use by your script (that is to say,
    have your script handle the prompts for login name and password,
    too.)  On my host, for example, login can fail for a variety of
    reasons after the login name and password is supplied.  I've added
    more instructions to my login script to handle this situation, thus
    automating the entire login process.

>    I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts
>    are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are
>    doing the blanking).

    No, they are not.  You see on your terminal screen only what comes
    in from the serial port after the CONNECT command executes.  If you
    have your CONNECT command conditional on the results of an INPUT
    command ('INPUT {whatever}', 'IF SUCCESS CONNECT'), you'll see on
    your terminal screen only what immediately follows the string that
    the INPUT command was testing for.

    If you decide to have your script handle the login name and
    password prompts, I'd suggest that you update to at least MSK 3.13.
    Your users will not want their passwords to echo back on the
    screen; MSK 3.13 includes a new command, ASKQ, which turns echo off
    when it prompts the user.  (You might want to prompt them twice for
    their password, and have your script compare the entries for
    consistency.)  Also, for security, it would probably be a good idea
    to add a line or two to flush the user's login name and password
    out of memory ('ASSIGN \%variable' with no value following will do
    the job) just before going to CONNECT mode.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 25 05:43:51 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19940
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:08:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02793
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:08:25 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc!cacclin
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Cacclin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: URGENT: Kermit needed for SuperDOS
Date: 24 Oct 1994 22:43:51 -0700
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <cacclin.783063123@vanbc>
Nntp-Posting-Host: vanbc.wimsey.com
Keywords: SuperDOS Kermit
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #13 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Just as the tag line says...I am in need of Kermit for an operating system
named SuperDOS. SuperDOS is a very esoteric multi-tasking pseudo-O/S for PC's
made by BlueBird Systems of California. They have informed me that there is a
version of Kermit available - anyone know where? I have looked at
kermit.columbia.edu but could not find it.

First correct respondent is truly a master of weird and archaic knowledge.
Actually, if I find anyone who has even heard about SuperDOS, I'll be amazed.

Help!

Stephen Cacclin
Echelon Computing

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 05:55:48 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20731
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:31:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03819
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:31:11 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: The reason why I (and many others) can't upload...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:55:48 GMT
Lines: 68
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    X-posting this here may seem like proselytizing the converted, but
    I thought that there might be some in this group who would enjoy
    seeing it (like f'rinstance, the Kermit developers :) ...

[ Article crossposted from netcom.software ]
[ Author was Glenn R. Stone ]
[ Posted on Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:11:00 GMT ]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Wilson) writes:

>... because I telnet in (from a local freenet).  TELNET only transmits
>7 bits, so it chokes on 8-bit protocols like ZMODEM and XMODEM.

>   RLOGIN can handle uploads just fine.

this is gonna *sound* cheesy, but it's a lot better than you'd think...
so can... (ta daaaa) Kermit.

"But Kermit sucks!"

Not anymore.

Kermit 3.14 for DOS and 5A(190) for Unixen supports megapackets (up to 9k if
your connection will handle it, though 9600 usually goes best at around 1k),
sliding windows, partial file transfers for those bombed connections, TCP/IP
(that's right, Kermit does NETWORKS!  Let's see DumbCom 57.5 do that!), and,
in the DOS version (at least), a damn nice vt320 emulator with configurable
colors for the various underline/blinkenmoden.

Now, granted, this is beta software, but 5A(190) is due out of beta Real
Soon Now, and 3.14 will follow it... and most of the beta bugs are on real
obscure systems or some such (I did find a bug in 5A(178) when it came out,
but that was when AIX was fairly damned obscure, so my point stands...).
The goodies (source and pre-compiled executables for your favourite boxen)
are on ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test (I think that's right, follow
the README's to be sure) and free for the taking.

"But how am I gonna get the binaries down to my PC if I'm stuck with
eightbit download software and a seven bit line?"

Have no fear, gentle netizen, they've solved that problem.  They've got an
encoded bootstrap file and a little BASIC program to decode it into a form
you can use to go grab the real thing.  Check out the README files and such
like in the appropriate directories.

Not only that, if you really don't want to give up WunderKom but are still
stuck with the seven bit curse, they've got a stripped down version called
KerLite you can use as an auxiliary transfer program (i.e. shell out, crank
up KerLite to do your download, exit back, and be back in your favorite
snazzy screenbitpusher).

This sounds a helluva lot like a sales pitch.  It's not.  Kermit is FREE,
gratis, de nada, on the net.house.  But having put a little time and effort
in on it myself and (a) seeing how extremely functional, albeit in an
un-flashy way, it is and (b) preferring to see folks get something for free
than shell out hard-earned bucks to the fat cats, I thought I'd say
something.  Besides, I'm tired of seeing a damn nice piece of work get
dissed (or worse, dis-missed).  It scripts, it autodials, it slices, it
dices, it juliennes fries.  And all for the price of your time to go fetch
it.  No, it's not flashy.  It works.  Well.  The only thing it won't do is
run X, and that's the only reason I ever touch another commo program
DOSwise.  It's the only thing I use to serve downloads on the Unix side.
You could even use it in place of FTP if you've a kitchy machine or firewall
in the way.  Whee.

In a nutshell: Seven-bitters, get Kermit and grin instead of whine.

warp eight bot, kermit addict

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 13:24:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21390
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:52:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04541
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:52:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Oct 94 19:24:00 MDT
References: <38h1rp$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38h1rp$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Harnick-Shapiro) writes:
> Executive Summary:
>     Is there an option to prevent the CONNECT command from
>     clearing the screen?
>
> Fuller Description:
>     I'm writing a TAKE file;  it handles everything up to the
>     prompt for the user's login name, at which point control
>     is handed over the user (via CONNECT).  But executing
>     CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved
>     by the loss of the prompt for the login name.
>
>     I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts
>     are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are
>     doing the blanking).
---------
    Nope. The terminal emulator must be in a known state when emulation
begins, and the screen should be clean to hold what the host may send.
Imagine the host sending cursor commands over a screen previously scribbled
upon at Kermit command level. That would be a mess for 99.x% of the users.
    Why not go ahead and finish the script job by prompting for a
password and reading it quietly, then start Connect mode?
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 15:49:19 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22098
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:13:24 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05191
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:13:22 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Looping until keypress
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Oct 94 21:49:19 MDT
References: <38hhg1$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 42
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38hhg1$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Victor Boyko) writes:
> Hello!
>
> I need a macro to output a carriage return (\13) every five seconds
> until any key is pressed. I put the following in my mscustom.ini file
>
> def loop -
> :l -
  ^^^^---------- syntax error. This line must have a comma to demark the
         end of line, like this   :l,-    Use SHOW MAC LOOP to
         see its definition.

> set alarm 5,-
> pause 5,-
> if not alarm goto e,-
> output \13,-
> goto l,-
> :e -
> end
>
> However, it does not work when I type loop from the command line.
> Sometimes it just returns to the prompt in 5 seconds,
> and sometimes it sends \13 every 5 seconds, but does not exit when I
> press a key. Strangely, if I make a script loop.scr
>
> :l
    The end of line is explicit in the file since you put it there.

> set alarm 5
> pause 5
> if not alarm goto e
> output \13
> goto l
> :e
> end
>
> then 'take loop.scr' does exactly what I want. However, this is
> inconvenient since I have to be in the directory where loop.scr is.

        The corrected form of your macro (not Take file) works perfectly
here.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 07:50:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24898
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 04:30:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07476
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 04:30:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!med.su.oz.au!blackburn.med.su.oz.au!alucas
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Lucas)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: z-modem & c-kermit
Date: 25 Oct 1994 17:50:57 +1000
Organization: Faculty of Medicine, University of Sydney
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: blackburn.med.su.oz.au
Summary: zmodem & c-kermit
Keywords: zmodem
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi there world,
        I use c-kermit for OS2 and have a great
utility program called p.exe which provides zmodem
capability to c-kermit.

Question:  Is there an equivalent UNIX program that I
can get for my host?

Thanks in advance

Andrew - Sydney, Australia
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 09:28:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26632
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:28:52 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08991
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:28:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!heifetz.msen.com!jamaican
From: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: DIALING SCRIPT not found
Date: 25 Oct 1994 09:28:41 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: [phone])
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <38ij49$rm2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I am using MS_Kermit Beta 7 and cant get the dialing script to work.
I've read the documentation that came with mstibm.zip from the ftp
site. I've tried all the flavors of setting my dialups.txt and it still
tells me that dialing script not found. I am currently running with the
following set in my autoexec.bat :
    SET DIALFILE=C:\KERMIT\DIALUPS.TXT

What's wrong!!!!
:-(
Dwight
--
=======================================================================
=             "Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."             =
=  0/       __o                                              ,,,      =
= <|      _`\< _                                            (o o)     =
= / >  --(_)/ (_)------- [e-mail] -------ooO-(_)-Ooo- =
=======================================================================

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 09:11:41 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27387
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:54:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09546
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:54:10 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Looping until keypress
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <38hhg1$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:11:41 GMT
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38hhg1$[e-mail]>, Victor Boyko ([e-mail]) wrote:
>Hello!

>I need a macro to output a carriage return (\13) every five seconds
>until any key is pressed. I put the following in my mscustom.ini file

    I don't think you can use goto label in a macro definition, only in
    a script.  You could solve the directory problem by defining a
    macro that points to the script, eg. 'define loop take
    c:\kermit\loop' or some such.  (You could then tie it to a hot key,
    with 'set key \#### {\Kloop}', where #### is the scan code of
    whatever key you want to activate it.)

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 05:17:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02660
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:22:26 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14779
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:22:25 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: up-arrow History in MS-Kermit?
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:17:20 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Would it be possible to add a simple up-arrow history (last-command)
to MS-Kermit 3.14?

Even a "hack" (running a TSR) would be glorious.

Something that keeps the last 25 commands or so, of course able to
turn on and off for memory considerations :-)

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 13:11:55 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05679
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:12:01 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17905
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:11:59 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: DIALING SCRIPT not found
Date: 25 Oct 1994 13:11:55 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <38j06r$[e-mail]>
References: <38ij49$rm2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38ij49$rm2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dwight
Hugget) writes:
>
> I am using MS_Kermit Beta 7 and cant get the dialing script to work.
>
Oops.  There is a problem in Beta-7 that will be fixed in Beta-8.

Watch this space for announcements.

Sorry.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 13:14:03 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05775
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:14:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18057
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:14:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Looping until keypress
Date: 25 Oct 1994 13:14:03 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 10
Message-Id: <38j0ar$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
writes:
>     I don't think you can use goto label in a macro definition, only in
>     a script.
>
Au contraire -- labels and GOTOs are perfectly OK in macros.  You can even
issue a GOTO from inside a macro to the enclosing context.  As Joe pointed
out, the problem in the script that was posted was a missing comma.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 15:33:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19655
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16644
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:06 -0400
Control: cancel <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: cancel <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:33:57 GMT
Lines: 1
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Article cancelled from within tin [v1.2 PL1]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 03:22:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19696
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:58 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16833
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: up-arrow History in MS-Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Oct 94 09:22:54 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>
> Would it be possible to add a simple up-arrow history (last-command)
> to MS-Kermit 3.14?
>
> Even a "hack" (running a TSR) would be glorious.
>
> Something that keeps the last 25 commands or so, of course able to
> turn on and off for memory considerations :-)
>
> Ken
> [e-mail]
----------
    There is no command history buffer in MSK. Not only is such an
item slightly ambiguous (which command, the raw user typed one or the
one after string substitution occurred, or the Take file/macro last
executed, etc), but each command can be 1000 bytes long. Think of what
memory consumption that means. Once recall occurs then immediately
everyone wants a command line editor, and frankly that is a lot of
code in an already extremely complex environment internally.
    As a person who types more MSK command lines that almost anyone
I've found command line recall to be a dispensable frill.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 16:48:01 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00118
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:00:52 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00357
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:00:50 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Looping until keypress
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <38j0ar$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:48:01 GMT
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38j0ar$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
>writes:
>>     I don't think you can use goto label in a macro definition, only in
>>     a script.
>>
>Au contraire -- labels and GOTOs are perfectly OK in macros.  You can even
>issue a GOTO from inside a macro to the enclosing context.  As Joe pointed
>out, the problem in the script that was posted was a missing comma.

    Ahh, that's good to know.  Our news feed's been a bit slow, and
    Joe's article hadn't reached us when I posted.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 24 16:15:58 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14139
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:48:44 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15997
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:48:42 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux2.cso.uiuc.edu!shair
From: [e-mail] (Bob Shair)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: procomm-kermit
Date: 24 Oct 1994 16:15:58 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 27
Message-Id: <38gmju$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ux2.cso.uiuc.edu
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

<[e-mail]> writes:

>Can somebody help me.  I have a dial up account to the internet.  In order to
>download stuff I use a version of procomm (shareware) that supports the
>kermit protocol.  But I am not sure how I would go about using kermit to
>download.  If anyone knows what I'm talking about or knows how to help, please
>respond.  I will greatly appreciate it.

Like this:

On your Unix system on the Internet, running C-Kermit, say:
kermit -s filename

then press the PgDn key on your PC, and Procomm will attempt to download
the file.

The old, shareware, version of Procomm which I had was far backlevel,
even then, in the Kermit features supported.  Hope they're better now.

All kinds of things can go wrong.  You may not even be running Unix.
Kermit may not be in your PATH.  It may not be installed at all.

--

Bob Shair                          [e-mail]
Open Systems Specialist           SHAIR@UIUCVMD (bitnet)
Champaign, Illinois           217/356-2684

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 19:53:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17791
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:44:19 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20569
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:44:16 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!concert!lester.appstate.edu!lester.appstate.edu!krb
From: [e-mail] (Kinney Baughman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile
Date: 25 Oct 1994 19:53:04 GMT
Organization: Appalachian State University
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <38jnn0$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: lester.appstate.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Each time I try to run my old script file for dialing into the computer
here at ASU, Kermit 3.13 reads the number and then I get a <Ctrl-C>
"Command canceled" message on the screen and I'm thrown back to the
Ms-Kermit prompt.

I'm using an Infotel 14.4 Fax modem.  I have my modem defined to Hayes.
I think this might be the problem.  But none of the other *.scr files
seem to work any better, though they each exhibit other problems.

Is there a *.scr file for the Infotel modem anywhere I could download?

Kinney

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 22:57:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18550
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:57:40 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21721
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:57:39 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-8 Ready for Testing
Date: 25 Oct 1994 22:57:38 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 46
Message-Id: <38k2h2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-8 is available for anonymous ftp from
kermit.columbia.edu as of 6:45pm EST, Tuesday Oct 25:

  kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip  - Binary ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file

The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA.

Changes and fixes include:

 . Trimming of trailing spaces at end of command and before comment in a
   TAKE file (broken in Beta-7) mostly fixed, but still needs a bit
   more work.  This affected a lot dialing scripts and similar items
   in Beta-7.

 . Fossil driver fix when sending file-transfer data packets that are
   longer than the fossil's transmit buffer length.

 . SET { SEND, RECEIVE } PATHNAMES { ON, OFF } added.  SET RECEIVE
   PATHNAMES OFF is useful on BBSs or other unattended systems when you
   want to restrict incoming files to the current directory.  SEND is OFF
   and RECEIVE is ON by default for compatability with previous behavior.

 . Resetting the terminal (Alt-=) while in Tektronix submode of a VT
   terminal and then toggling to a VT mode (Alt-Minus) now restores the
   proper VT state for arrow-key codes sent to the host.

 . GETC rejects special keys (such as Fn) and quits when Control-C is
   typed.

 . Fixed bug in closing network connections when Kermit exits to DOS.

 . SET TERMINAL VIDEO-CHANGE {ENABLED, DISABLED, DOS-ONLY} -- DOS-ONLY
   added in this edit, and is the new default.  Allows 80/132-column
   video-mode switching in DOS only, not Windows.  Use ENABLED to allow it
   in Windows too, at your own risk (equivalent to Patch 9 in MS-DOS
   Kermit 3.13).

 . "kermit server 600" and similar commands could hang DOS.  Now fixed.

 . KERMIT.HLP and .BWR files updated, cleaned & trimmed a bit.

Please continue to send Beta test reports by e-mail to [e-mail].

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 23:00:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18788
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 19:00:42 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21969
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 19:00:41 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile
Date: 25 Oct 1994 23:00:40 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
Message-Id: <38k2mo$[e-mail]>
References: <38jnn0$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38jnn0$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kinney
Baughman) writes:
> Each time I try to run my old script file for dialing into the computer
> here at ASU, Kermit 3.13 reads the number and then I get a <Ctrl-C>
> "Command canceled" message on the screen and I'm thrown back to the
> Ms-Kermit prompt.
> I'm using an Infotel 14.4 Fax modem.  I have my modem defined to Hayes.
> I think this might be the problem.  But none of the other *.scr files
> seem to work any better, though they each exhibit other problems.
> Is there a *.scr file for the Infotel modem anywhere I could download?
>
MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta comes with LOTS more dialing scripts, but not
one specifically for the Infotel.

Read any of the Beta announcements on this newsgroup to find out where
to get the Beta.

Then dig through the new modem scripts and see if any of them matches
the Infotel.  If so, please let us know.  If not, maybe you could pick out
the closest one and adapt it and send it in so everybody else who has the
same kind of modem can use it.

Good luck.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 00:07:42 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22472
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 20:07:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27077
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 20:07:44 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14 Beta-8 Glitch
Date: 26 Oct 1994 00:07:42 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 9
Message-Id: <38k6ke$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

It seems that the remaining "minor problem" regarding trimming of whitespace
from commands read from TAKE files, after removing the trailing comment,
prevents our dialing scripts from working.  Sorry!

This will be fixed in Beta-9, coming soon.  Meanwhile, one can work around
the problem by editing the dialing script to remove trailing comments
(and intervening whitespace) from INPUT commands.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 08:32:12 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27121
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 21:43:03 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04019
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 21:43:02 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!gohkeech
From: [e-mail] (Goh Kee Chye Lawrence)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-7 Ready for Testing
Date: 25 Oct 1994 08:32:12 GMT
Organization: DISCS, NUS
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <38ifqc$[e-mail]>
References: <38gn5g$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    I'm facing problem dialing with beta-7.
    I have a dialing script to dial a list of numbers that so far has
    worked with beta-6.
    The problem is encountered after DIAL outputs the phone
    number and simply stops there with a NO CARRIER.

--
(_orenzo . Lawrence Goh <[e-mail]>
 I C _|_ X C     Department of Information Systems & Computer Science
 N I  |  K A                National University of Singapore
Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exilium, ostende.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 14:32:07 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29789
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:50:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08865
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:50:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!psinntp!cmcl2!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!nobody
From: [e-mail] (Victor Boyko)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Spaces after a string in Beta 7
Date: 25 Oct 1994 10:32:07 -0400
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <38j4t7$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: doc.cs.nyu.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello!

I have discovered a feature (or maybe a bug) in Beta 7 that is not
described in the release notes and that makes all old dialing scripts
obsolete. For example, suppose there is a line

output ATI3\13            ; Get modem information

Instead of outputting "ATI3\13", Kermit outputs "ATI3\13            ".
This can be fixed by changing to

output {ATI3\13}            ; Get modem information

Without this change it does not work.

-Victor

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 02:41:28 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01880
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 23:36:36 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13070
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 23:36:34 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mathezer
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Mathezer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kerep-alive option?
Date: 26 Oct 1994 02:41:28 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary CPSC
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <38kfko$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fsj.cpsc.ucalgary.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Is there any way to get kermit to keep a line connected?

I am connected to a remote server using kermit.  This server will
drop any inactive connection after 20 minutes.  The problem is that
I am running a program that takes longer than 20 minutes to execute.
There is no way for me to submit this program to run and then log out.
I have to remain connected.  I don't want to have to come and hit a
few keys every couple of minutes to keep my session alive.  Can kermit
keep it alive for me?

Thanks

-Steve

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 14:21:54 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29067
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:22:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12647
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:22:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kerep-alive option?
Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:21:54 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <38lom2$[e-mail]>
References: <38kfko$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38kfko$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Stephen Mathezer) writes:
>
> Is there any way to get kermit to keep a line connected?
>
> I am connected to a remote server using kermit.  This server will
> drop any inactive connection after 20 minutes.  The problem is that
> I am running a program that takes longer than 20 minutes to execute.
> There is no way for me to submit this program to run and then log out.
> I have to remain connected.  I don't want to have to come and hit a
> few keys every couple of minutes to keep my session alive.  Can kermit
> keep it alive for me?
>
You did not say what kinds of computers are involved or what versions of
Kermit you are using, etc.  From what you say, however, it seems that
your local system, the one that you used to make the connection, is
capable of running Kermit at the same time as another application.  If
that is true, then all you have to do is write a little script program
that makes Kermit send a character every once in a while, for example:

:loop
sleep 60  ; Sleep for a minute
output \0 ; Send a NUL
goto loop

Adjust as needed.  When you want go back online, bring Kermit to the
foreground and interrupt it, e.g. by typing Ctrl-C.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 04:01:20 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06241
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:44:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19285
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:44:34 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!hrbicf!aje
From: [e-mail] (Andrew J. Eckhardt, MS 274)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: White-space Beta-8
Message-Id: <1994Oct26.090120.22207@hrbicf>
Date: 26 Oct 94 09:01:20 EST
Organization: HRB Systems, Inc.
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello,

    Your parsing of script files has a bug. (V3.14 BETA-8)
Here is an excerpt from my dialing script that illustrates the bug:


:DIAL
output ATD\%1\13                ; Dial the number.
set alarm 90            ; (For detecting keyboard interruptions.)
if > VERSION 312 clear input    ; Clear echo from INPUT buffer.
if < VERSION 313 clear
input 30 \10                    ; Wait for the linefeeds...
              ^
              |
    A tab here made the input command fail. When I replaced by a
space it works.


Regards

--
=========================================================================
              Andrew Eckhardt
HRB Systems, P.O. Box 60, 300 Science Park Road, State College, PA 16804
    Tel [phone]     FAX [phone]    Internet [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 02:01:22 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09182
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:27:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22874
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:27:15 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken)
Subject: Re: up-arrow History in MS-Kermit?
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Organization: Mordor International BBS
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 02:01:22 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 43
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) wrote:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
> >
> > Would it be possible to add a simple up-arrow history (last-command)
> > to MS-Kermit 3.14?
> >
> > Even a "hack" (running a TSR) would be glorious.
> >
> > Something that keeps the last 25 commands or so, of course able to
> > turn on and off for memory considerations :-)
> >
> > Ken
> > [e-mail]
> ----------
>     There is no command history buffer in MSK. Not only is such an
> item slightly ambiguous (which command, the raw user typed one or the
> one after string substitution occurred, or the Take file/macro last
> executed, etc), but each command can be 1000 bytes long. Think of what
> memory consumption that means. Once recall occurs then immediately
> everyone wants a command line editor, and frankly that is a lot of
> code in an already extremely complex environment internally.
>     As a person who types more MSK command lines that almost anyone
> I've found command line recall to be a dispensable frill.
>     Joe D.

Actually, Joe, the way that you've written MS-Kermit to take partial
commands, finish it up with the Escape key, with help available at
every level... is astounding!

But I was just curious :-)  I thought there might be a way to use
a public domain TSR recall, which "remembers" each time a user hits
<Enter>.

Don't worry about it, Joe - it's not a big thing.  And you're right -
it would be far more work for you than the benefit.  You provided
context-sensitive help while other programmers were happy to stick
only a "reminder" screen and nothing else :-)


--
Kenneth Udut                                          [e-mail]
Listowner of [e-mail] - discussion on the rights of kids/teens

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 14:23:53 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11654
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:02:06 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25847
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:02:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!vanderli
From: [e-mail] (Michel van der List)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: kermit at system startup?
Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:23:53 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38lopp$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michel van der List)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquila.rm.fccc.edu
X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-24
Originator: vanderli@aquila
Apparently-To: [e-mail]



Hi All.

I wrote a little script to automatically dial one of our modem
ports, and set up slip for my alpha, running OSF/1 version 2.1.
This all works great, as long as I run this script interactively,
ie from a csh prompt. When I run this script from a startup file,
it seems to exit without doing anything. My guess is that it does
not have a tty as stdin, which makes it unhappy.

My questions:
- does this sound like a reasonable assumption?
- how can I fix it?

I scanned through the C-Kermit book, but did not see anything
obvious.

Thanks for any pointers...

Michel

--
----------------------+--------------------------+-----------------------------
Michel van der List   | 'Dat typies hollands     | The Fox Chase Cancer Center
[e-mail] |      vingertje'          |      7701 Burholme Avenue
[phone]        |                          |    Philadelphia, PA  19111

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 17:32:47 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13584
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:32:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28809
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:32:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit at system startup?
Date: 26 Oct 1994 17:32:47 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <38m3rv$[e-mail]>
References: <38lopp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38lopp$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michel van
der List) writes:
> I wrote a little script to automatically dial one of our modem
> ports, and set up slip for my alpha, running OSF/1 version 2.1.
> This all works great, as long as I run this script interactively,
> ie from a csh prompt. When I run this script from a startup file,
> it seems to exit without doing anything. My guess is that it does
> not have a tty as stdin, which makes it unhappy.
>
Tell Kermit to execute commands from the script file, rather than
feeding the text from the script file into Kermit's stdin.
For example, assuming the file is called /usr/me/x.scr:

  kermit /usr/me/x.scr

or:

  kermit -y /usr/me/x.scr

or:

  kermit -C "take /usr/me/x.scr"

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 06:51:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18127
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:20:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03348
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:20:51 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!newshub.ariel.cs.yorku.ca!news
From: "Archimedes L. Trajano" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Digicomm Connection script does not work anymore
X-Sender: cs932070@blue
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.90.941026024753.12729A-100000@blue>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: York University, Department of Computer Science
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 06:51:00 GMT
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am using the current version of MS-Kermit.  Beta-7.
The script to dial with the digicomm connection 14.4 modem stopped
working properly when I started using this and I have to manually dial to
make connections right now.

Is there a fix for this available?

(Currently the problem is that during dial, the script seems to put an
extra character after the dialer has been initiated therefore cancelling
the dial procedure.

Archimedes L. Trajano        _/_/_/ _/   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
[e-mail]  _/  _/ _/     _/  York University
(IRC: Overdrive)           _/_/_/ _/     _/  Department of Computer Science
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  _/ _/_/_/ _/  North York, Ontario, Canada


From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 02:55:45 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19005
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:30:11 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04210
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:30:09 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kerep-alive option?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 94 08:55:45 MDT
References: <38kfko$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38kfko$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stephen Mathezer) writes:
>
> Is there any way to get kermit to keep a line connected?
>
> I am connected to a remote server using kermit.  This server will
    By what pathway? TCP/IP? Serial? Another kind of networking?

> drop any inactive connection after 20 minutes.  The problem is that
    "inactive" is a slippery word, whose meaning is dependent on
the item doing the measuring.

> I am running a program that takes longer than 20 minutes to execute.
    So compose a very simple macro or Take file to sit in a loop
and Pause or Wait for 19 minutes and then send whatever your host wishes
to consider "active" but "uninteresting" to keep the connection alive.
MSK responds to TCP/IP keepalives, but it never generates gratutitous
data bytes by itself (but your macro/Take file can).
        Please have a look at the book "Using MS-DOS Kermit" for examples
about composing macros and Take files.

> There is no way for me to submit this program to run and then log out.
> I have to remain connected.  I don't want to have to come and hit a
> few keys every couple of minutes to keep my session alive.  Can kermit
> keep it alive for me?
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 19:00:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00161
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:53:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28924
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:53:29 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!vanderli
From: [e-mail] (Michel van der List)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit at system startup?
Date: 26 Oct 1994 19:00:49 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA
Lines: 53
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38m911$[e-mail]>
References: <38lopp$[e-mail]> <38m3rv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Michel van der List)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquila.rm.fccc.edu
X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-24
Originator: vanderli@aquila
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


In article <38m3rv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>In article <38lopp$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michel van
>der List) writes:
>> I wrote a little script to automatically dial one of our modem
>> ports, and set up slip for my alpha, running OSF/1 version 2.1.
>> This all works great, as long as I run this script interactively,
>> ie from a csh prompt. When I run this script from a startup file,
>> it seems to exit without doing anything. My guess is that it does
>> not have a tty as stdin, which makes it unhappy.
>>
>Tell Kermit to execute commands from the script file, rather than
>feeding the text from the script file into Kermit's stdin.
>For example, assuming the file is called /usr/me/x.scr:
>
>  kermit /usr/me/x.scr
>
>or:
>
>  kermit -y /usr/me/x.scr
>
>or:
>
>  kermit -C "take /usr/me/x.scr"
>
>- Frank

Thanks, unfortunately I had it set up as follows:

% cat kermitstuff
#!/usr/local/bin/kermit
...
...
...

which was nice, since my script could now just do:

% cat otherscript
#!/bin/csh -f
/usr/local/bin/kermitstuff
...
...
...

Oh well, I'll do it the other way.

Michel.

--
----------------------+--------------------------+-----------------------------
Michel van der List   | 'Dat typies hollands     | The Fox Chase Cancer Center
[e-mail] |      vingertje'          |      7701 Burholme Avenue
[phone]        |                          |    Philadelphia, PA  19111

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 10:38:42 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02452
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:21:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01631
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:21:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lille1.fr!zaphod.crihan.fr!bilbo.crihan.fr!rp
From: [e-mail] (Renaud Patte)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit on AS400
Date: 26 Oct 1994 10:38:42 GMT
Organization: CRIHAN, Mont-Saint-Aignan (France)
Lines: 6
Message-Id: <38lbji$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bilbo.crihan.fr
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm searching for Kermit on system AS400.
Would someone tell me where to find it?

Thanks a lot.

internet : [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 21:39:31 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04118
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:39:36 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03229
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:39:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit on AS400
Date: 26 Oct 1994 21:39:31 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <38miaj$[e-mail]>
References: <38lbji$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38lbji$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Renaud Patte)
writes:
> I'm searching for Kermit on system AS400.
> Would someone tell me where to find it?
>
Nobody has ever succeeded in writing a Kermit program for the AS/400.
Many have announced their intention to do this, but none have ever
actually even started, as far as I can tell.  This system (together
with its predecessors, the Systems/34, 36, and 38) is the only major
gap in the Kermit software collection.

I can only speculate that the AS/400 and its ancestors are devilishly
hard to program, at least for communicating with outside world, since
they use the EBCDIC character set rather than ASCII or any of its
descendents, and since it uses bizarre and proprietary communication
methods.

Anybody who is seriously interested in pursuing this should contact me.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 16:58:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10575
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:35:21 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13154
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:35:19 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Scan code \313 for the space key - why?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Oct 94 22:58:46 MDT
References: <386qkt$[e-mail]>,<388i7u$[e-mail]> <38kcjf$[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 34
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38kcjf$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In Article <388i7u$[e-mail]>
> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>> [...]
>>The change is transparent when using the regular keyboard drivers, but
>>if you are using a nonstandard driver, you might have to put:
>>
>>  set key \313 \32
>>
>>in your MSCUSTOM.INI file.  In version 3.14, we have also differentiated
>>the Esc and Enter key + Ctrl/Alt/Shift scan codes.
>
>     My keyboard driver has a 'VT mode' in which all keypad keys give
>     special scan codes (including NumLock). So it's easy to map DEC's
>     keypad ESC-Seqs to those keys (set key \nnn \KKPm).
>     Unfortunatley the keypad 9 key gives \313 in that mode,
>     so pressing the space key produces the KKP9 ESC-sequence...
----------
    \313 is the scan code for space-bar on regular IBM-PC keyboards.
What does your keyboard produce for space bar? If it is the same as keypad 9
then I guess you are out of luck with this situation. How about changing to
non-VT mode on the driver, however that might be accomplished?
    It is helpful to know a technical detail here. MSK's keyboard
translator doesn't understand keyboards. The translator has not the faintest
idea of what is printed on key caps, nor that it's a keyboard rather than
something entirely different. Yup, true, and by design. The tiny key reader
part reports either ASCII results or "scan" codes, for non-ASCII, coming from
the Bios or from DOS. For the ASCII case some keys are aliased back to their
scan codes, and the space bar is one such case. The Enter key is another.
If a low level keyboard driver modfies those codes then Kermit may not
produce an alias since aliases are in a hard coded list of numbers appropriate
to the IBM-PC Bios (in the IBM-PC version of MS-DOS Kermit, other Bios' for
Zenith 100 and Victor 9000 editions of MSK).
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 05:00:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11430
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:15 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14206
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:12 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu!lewart
From: [e-mail] (Daniel S. Lewart)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSK 3.14/Beta-8 command-line -f bug
Date: 26 Oct 94 05:00:00 GMT
Organization: DSL Consulting
Lines: 7
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Daniel S. Lewart)
Nntp-Posting-Host: rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu
Cc: [e-mail] (Kermit Distribution)
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV)

On my IBM PC AT, "kermit.exe -f initfile" does not read in the
initialization file unless it is named mskermit.ini.  However,
once inside Kermit, "take initfile" works.

Thank you,
Daniel Lewart
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct 25 22:31:21 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11457
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:34 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14227
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:32 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit Dialing Scripts: 1. X4 vs X1 2. Windows Speed Problem
Date: 25 Oct 1994 22:31:21 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38k0vp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

1. The standard HAYES.SCR sets the result codes option to X1.  We have a
   very busy modem pool and I'd like to change the script to use X4 so
   that I can specifically report that the pool is busy.  Can anyone
   suggest a reason why this is a bad idea?  I'm worried that maybe
   Columbia has discovered that not all "Hayes-compatible" modems support
   X4 and that's why X1 was chosen?

2. This week I've found two modems that will not accept modem commands
   at 38400 when Kermit is launched from inside Windows.  One of these
   was a 1994 USR Sportster, the other a Zoltrix 14.4.  In both cases,
   the modem operates ok at 38400 if Windows is exited and Kermit is
   run from DOS.  Any chance there is some simple tweak in Windows?
   Assuming no, is there a way for a DOS program to realize that Windows
   is active in the background?  (Feel free to tell me this is a stupid
   question.)
--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 27 00:51:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14697
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:51:56 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18729
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:51:55 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Dialing Scripts: 1. X4 vs X1 2. Windows Speed Problem
Date: 27 Oct 1994 00:51:52 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 44
Message-Id: <38mtj8$[e-mail]>
References: <38k0vp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38k0vp$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
writes:
> 1. The standard HAYES.SCR sets the result codes option to X1.  We have a
>    very busy modem pool and I'd like to change the script to use X4 so
>    that I can specifically report that the pool is busy.  Can anyone
>    suggest a reason why this is a bad idea?  I'm worried that maybe
>    Columbia has discovered that not all "Hayes-compatible" modems support
>    X4 and that's why X1 was chosen?
>
Hayes 1200 does not support X4.

For modern modems, don't use HAYES.SCR, but rather one of the many high-
speed modem scripts.

> 2. This week I've found two modems that will not accept modem commands
>    at 38400 when Kermit is launched from inside Windows.  One of these
>    was a 1994 USR Sportster, the other a Zoltrix 14.4.  In both cases,
>    the modem operates ok at 38400 if Windows is exited and Kermit is
>    run from DOS.  Any chance there is some simple tweak in Windows?
>
Windows is not exactly the best environment for running communications
software.  And there is no such thing as "simple tweak" to Windows.
Well, if the PC has a buffered UART, tell Windows about it in the SYSTEM.INI
file, something like COM1FIFO -- see KERMIT.BWR for details.  For non-
buffered UARTs, all bets are off under Windows.  Unfortunately, this is
an increasingly common combination...

>    Assuming no, is there a way for a DOS program to realize that Windows
>    is active in the background?  (Feel free to tell me this is a stupid
>    question.)
>
There are actually many cases: Kermit is running under plain DOS, Kermit
is in a Windows fullscreen session, Kermit is in a Windows window, and
then all the others (OS/2, DesqView, etc).  I doubt if there is anything
that can be depended upon, but somebody else might know better.

I recognize that we might need a little more intelligence in the dialing
scripts -- falling back to lower baud rates and/or inserting pauses between
output characters, etc, under error conditions, and/or allowing the speed
from the dialing directory to override the default speed in the dialing
script.  I'm not sure if all that can (or should) be squeezed in during the
Beta period.  We'll see how it goes.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 22:07:42 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06086
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 05:43:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15752
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 05:43:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!constellation!news.uoknor.edu!news.ualr.edu!news.ach.uams.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Bruce Hulsey)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Problems with OpenVMS C-kermit v5a(189) in server mode
Date: 26 Oct 1994 22:07:42 GMT
Organization: UAMS-Computing Services
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <38mjve$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.30.1.66
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Greetings!

We've recently migrated a large percentage of our users from a VAX to an
Alpha processor and consequently needed to change our version of kermit.
On the VAX we ran Kermit-32 ver. 3.3.111, and on the Alpha we now run
C-Kermit ver. 5A(189).  The only problem is that many of our users are
encountering problems running C-Kermit in server mode with various
communications packages.  I myself have encountered problems with an
older (but unfortunately still in-use) version of Persoft's SmarTerm 240
(DOS), but other packages including COMit, and MS-Windows' Terminal
program have also been reported as problematic.  Other packages such as
Persoft's SmarTerm 340 for DOS and WRQ's Reflection 2 for Windows seem to
work just fine.  The problem that I encountered with SmarTerm 240 was
that SmarTerm's kermit wouldn't recognize that the remote (C-Kermit)
Kermit was in server mode and would timeout on packet reads.  Others have
apparently encountered similar problems.  My questions are these:  Are
there any known incompatibilities between c-kermit and other pc-based
kermit clients?  If so, is there a switch in c-kermit that makes it
behave like our 'old' kermit-32?  Is there perhaps something at the vms
level that we need to change for c-kermit to work properly?

I realize that I haven't given a great deal of detail about our problems,
but I'll be happy to discuss it further if necessary.  Any
help/suggestions are appreciated...thanks!

Bruce Hulsey
Univ. of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
[e-mail] OR
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 27 13:15:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14151
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:15:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25240
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:15:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problems with OpenVMS C-kermit v5a(189) in server mode
Date: 27 Oct 1994 13:15:15 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 53
Message-Id: <38o953$[e-mail]>
References: <38mjve$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38mjve$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bruce Hulsey)
writes:
> Greetings!
>
> We've recently migrated a large percentage of our users from a VAX to an
> Alpha processor and consequently needed to change our version of kermit.
> On the VAX we ran Kermit-32 ver. 3.3.111, and on the Alpha we now run
> C-Kermit ver. 5A(189).  The only problem is that many of our users are
> encountering problems running C-Kermit in server mode with various
> communications packages.  I myself have encountered problems with an
> older (but unfortunately still in-use) version of Persoft's SmarTerm 240
> (DOS), but other packages including COMit, and MS-Windows' Terminal
> program have also been reported as problematic.  Other packages such as
> Persoft's SmarTerm 340 for DOS and WRQ's Reflection 2 for Windows seem to
> work just fine.  The problem that I encountered with SmarTerm 240 was
> that SmarTerm's kermit wouldn't recognize that the remote (C-Kermit)
> Kermit was in server mode and would timeout on packet reads.  Others have
> apparently encountered similar problems.  My questions are these:  Are
> there any known incompatibilities between c-kermit and other pc-based
> kermit clients?  If so, is there a switch in c-kermit that makes it
> behave like our 'old' kermit-32?  Is there perhaps something at the vms
> level that we need to change for c-kermit to work properly?
>
C-Kermit *does* work properly, it's the other products that don't.
Use MS-DOS Kermit, any version back to 1981, on your PCs against C-Kermit
and it will work fine.

Clearly we can't be responsible for other peoples' Kermit implementations.
We have no relationship with any of these companies.

Most (not all) producers of commercial and shareware Kermit implementations
pay little attention to the protocol definition, in particular to its
extensibility features -- the negotiated parameters that, when properly
implemented, allow the oldest, most primitive Kermit implementation to
interoperate automatically with the newest, most feature-laden version.

In chasing down complaints like these, we have encountered products that
totally ignore the negotiation phase and plow ahead using whatever parameters
they feel like, or, conversely, are confused by new items that would not
confuse them if they paid attention to the negotiation phase.

If you use real Kermit software, it will work.  Or if it doesn't, you'll get
good support.  By the way, I'd recommend that you install C-Kermit 5A(190)
on your VMS system.  You can obtain it via anonymous ftp to
kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/text.  Get the file ckvaaa.hlp,
read it, go from there.  Even though it is still in the test directory,
this is the real release, only awaiting the big file shuffle to its new
home, kermit/b, where it should show up within a few days.  Aside from
clearing up some problems that 5A(189) had in VMS (especially when run
in batch jobs, when SPAWN'd, etc), it adds new features like file-transfer
recovery.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 27 20:10:48 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15461
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:10:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11693
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:10:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready
Date: 27 Oct 1994 20:10:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 124
Message-Id: <38p1g8$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 is available for anonymous ftp from
kermit.columbia.edu as of 3:08pm EDT Thursday, Oct 27:

  kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip  - Binary ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file

The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA.

Changes and fixes include:

 . Comment/blank/tab stripping fixed, dialing works OK again.

 . kermit -f d:\blah\blah\blah\oofa.scr fixed.

 . SET CARRIER ON seems to work fine, even during file transfer.
   That is, it pops back to the prompt (or DOS, depending on how Kermit
   was invoked) immediately when carrier drops.

 . SET TERM VIDEO-CHANGE DOS-ONLY / ENABLED now work as advertised.

 . ANSI emulator innoculated against "ANSI music".

About so-called "ANSI" so-called "music"...  It's bad enough that we must
endure the so-called "ANSI standard" -- which has nothing whatever to do
with ANSI (the American National Standards Institute), and which is not a
standard in any sense because it is not documented anywhere -- but...
Wait, I'm getting ahead of myself.  Maybe I'm ignorant, but *what* is the
"standard" for ANSI terminal emulation?  I would guess that it should be
the document (e.g. in the Microsoft DOS manual) that describes ANSI.SYS,
the IBM PC console driver, affectionately named after the organization
that published the X3.64 standard, which describes the form and function
of a repertoire of escape sequences, and forms the basis for the
VT100/VT200 and higher architectures, and which conforms to ISO Standards
2022 and 4873, but which certainly does not describe the ANSI console
driver.

Nor does the ANSI.SYS documentation include many functions that are
commonly used by BBSs.  For example: Two betas ago somebody complained
that Kermit did not "correctly implement" the "ANSI" screen-clearing
"standard".  What was it?  Just a plain, bare Ctrl-L.  To my knowledge, no
CRT terminal in the world uses this for screen clearing (although hardcopy
printers use it for page feed).  Not even the ANSI.SYS console driver
clears the screen when given a Ctrl-L; it just prints a little "female"
sign (but of course, we accommated and now Kermit follows the "ANSI
standard for screen clearing).  It also seems that many BBSs send ESC[6n,
cursor position report request.  This is a valid ANSI and VT100
sequence, but it is not part of ANSI.SYS.

OK, fine -- the ANSI standard is ANSI.SYS, plus selected VT100 items, plus
creative interpretation of some control characters.  But if one is going
to claim "ANSI conformance", then one should at least pay attention to the
*form* of an ANSI escape sequence (more properly called a control
sequence), which is:

  ESC [ intermediate-characters final-character

The final-character is a function code, and the intermediate characters
are parameters (data or modifiers) for the function.  A terminal,
emulator, or other device parses these sequences very easily using a
simple finite-state automaton, which works efficiently because final
characters are immediately distinguishable from intermediate characters
because they are in different columns of the ASCII table and thus have
different bits set.

Final characters are the ASCII characters @ (64) through ~ (tilde, 126).
Thus, once the terminal has seen ESC [, it gobbles up all subsequent
characters that are outside the final-character range and stores them in a
parameter buffer, and then when it gets the final character, it executes
the indicated function using the accumulated parameters, if any.  Example:

  ESC [ 3 M

deletes 3 lines, beginning at the line where the cursor is.  If the number
is omitted, the current cursor line is deleted.  Parameters are typically
numbers, semicolons, question marks, etc: printable (note: printable)
ASCII characters outside the final-character range.  (Why printable?
Because many control characters already have time-honored functions.)

Now along comes "ANSI music".  What is it?  It is "beeper" music encoded
like a PC BASIC "PLAY" command.  It comes right after the ESC [, and can
start with any character at all.  Example:

 ESC [ MFT120O3 G8.A32F32G4.O4C8O3A8F8D8F8O4C8O3B8O4C2 ...

and is terminated by a Ctrl-N.  What is wrong with this idea?

 1. A correctly designed escape-sequence parser will not recognize it;
    it is likely to encounter a final character within the string itself.
    In this case, the first character, M, is a final character ("delete
    lines").

 2. A random function will be executed depending on what final character
    was found, and which, if any, characters came before it.

 3. The terminating character, Ctrl-N, is not in the final-character range.
    If no final character is encountered prior to the Ctrl-N, the Ctrl-N
    will be ignored, as are most other control characters inside of
    escape sequences.

 4. Ctrl-N has an entirely different function, used all over the world
    for nearly three decades: Shift-Out.  This tells the terminal to
    interpret 7-bit codes as the corresponding 8-bit codes.

You might ask, "why so hard on ANSI music?  It's cute!"  Maybe so, but
then it should have been designed conform to the ANSI standard.  The
problem with the current definition is not just one of purity.  It is that
a terminal or emulator CAN NOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between a valid escape
sequence and an ANSI music sequence that contains a valid ANSI final
character.

So... the final Kermit change noted above simply makes Kermit, when in
ANSI mode, ignore Ctrl-N (and its counterpart, Ctrl-O).  So if you log in
to a BBS that sends ANSI music, you are likely to see strings of letters
and numbers on your screen when music is played, but at least from that
point on you will no longer see total gibberish!

OK, off my soapbox.  The foregoing tirade was principally to head off
requests for Kermit to support ANSI music.

Please continue to send Beta test reports by e-mail to [e-mail],
and let's hope 9 is a lucky number...

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Oct 27 22:23:10 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26069
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:23:20 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23509
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:23:16 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: PRIME Kermit  binary needed
Date: 27 Oct 1994 22:23:10 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 9
Message-Id: <38p98e$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Does anybody have Kermit running on a PRIME computer with PRIMOS?
Most PRIME sites are able to compile it from the source, but one
came up recently that did not have the PL/P compiler handy.

Preferably this would be the current release, 8.15.

If so, pls send me email.  Thanks!

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 10:24:29 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28480
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:28:08 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04451
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:28:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!zib-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!sun2!s3e0101
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: WP ascii files + Kermit
Date: 28 Oct 1994 10:24:29 GMT
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38qjgt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: sun2.lrz-muenchen.de
Apparently-To: [e-mail]




Hi Netters,

I cannot get the ascii files I have written with Wp 5.1 [saved with cntrl F5]
uploaded to the Unix system of my Internet provider. The error message
from kermit is "too many retries".  There are probably various possible
solutions to this trouble but the best for me would seem to be stripping the
files while still on my PC of the characters which kermit cannot digest.

Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.



From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 03:50:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29190
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:52:59 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05314
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:52:57 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!gs.dfn.de!tubsibr!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Scan code \313 for the space key - why?
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 03:50:00 GMT
Organization: Inst.f.Nachrichtentechnik, TU Braunschweig, Germany
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38kcjf$[e-mail]>
References: <386qkt$[e-mail]>,<388i7u$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ifn.ing.tu-bs.de
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In Article <388i7u$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
> [...]
>The change is transparent when using the regular keyboard drivers, but
>if you are using a nonstandard driver, you might have to put:
>
>  set key \313 \32
>
>in your MSCUSTOM.INI file.  In version 3.14, we have also differentiated
>the Esc and Enter key + Ctrl/Alt/Shift scan codes.

    My keyboard driver has a 'VT mode' in which all keypad keys give
    special scan codes (including NumLock). So it's easy to map DEC's
    keypad ESC-Seqs to those keys (set key \nnn \KKPm).
    Unfortunatley the keypad 9 key gives \313 in that mode,
    so pressing the space key produces the KKP9 ESC-sequence...

    --Eckart

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eckart Meyer                                     Address:  Schleinitzstr.  23
Institute for Telecommunication                            38092 Braunschweig
Technical University of Braunschweig                                  Germany
                                                 Phone:      [phone]
E-Mail:   [e-mail]                 FAX:        [phone]
VMSmail:  PSI%26245050551130::MEYER (DATEX-P)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 00:07:39 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02014
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:12:46 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08329
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:12:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!concert!lester.appstate.edu!lester.appstate.edu!krb
From: [e-mail] (Kinney Baughman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile
Date: 28 Oct 1994 00:07:39 GMT
Organization: Appalachian State University
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <38pfcb$[e-mail]>
References: <38jnn0$[e-mail]> <38k2mo$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: lester.appstate.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta comes with LOTS more dialing scripts, but not
: one specifically for the Infotel.

: Read any of the Beta announcements on this newsgroup to find out where
: to get the Beta.

: Then dig through the new modem scripts and see if any of them matches
: the Infotel.  If so, please let us know.  If not, maybe you could pick out
: the closest one and adapt it and send it in so everybody else who has the
: same kind of modem can use it.

I'd be happy to do my small part.

But should I just try scripts one by one until they work?  Or is there
an indicator on my modem card that might help me determine which script
to try?

Kinney


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 13:24:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04978
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:25:09 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13036
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:25:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile
Date: 28 Oct 1994 13:24:52 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 60
Message-Id: <38qu34$[e-mail]>
References: <38pfcb$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38pfcb$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kinney
Baughman) writes:
> Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta comes with LOTS more dialing scripts, but not
> : one specifically for the Infotel.
>
> I'd be happy to do my small part.
>
> But should I just try scripts one by one until they work?  Or is there
> an indicator on my modem card that might help me determine which script
> to try?
>
All the high-speed modem scripts do pretty much the same thing; only
the specific modem commands are different.  Here is a cutout from the
MODEMS\READ.ME file:

WHAT THE DIALING SCRIPTS HAVE IN COMMON

These scripts use your modem's default dialing method, pulse or tone; they do
not specify one or the other, since neither method is supported by all
telephones everywhere.  To force Tone dialing, begin your phone number with
T,
for example:

  DIAL T7654321

Similarly, to force pulse dialing, start the phone number with P.

If you give a DIAL command whose telephone number is simply = (equal sign),
the modem will be initialized, but no call will be placed.  In some cases,
the dialing script will also ask the modem to display its configuration.

When dialing a real phone number, you can include special characters in the
phone number to accomplish pauses, wait for secondary dialtone, etc.  See
your
modem manual.

If you dial a number that is busy, most of these scripts will wait 30 seconds
and then redial automatically, up to 5 times.  You can cancel the redial
operation by pressing any key after you see the message:

  Line is busy, will dial again in 30 seconds.
  Press any key to cancel...

Each dialing script returns SUCCESS if dialing succeeds and FAILURE if it
doesn't, so you can use an IF FAIL or IF SUCCESS statement after a DIAL
command in a script.

(end of cutout)

So pick one of the high-speed modem scripts and read it, referring to your
modem manual to see if the modem commands are the same.  If not, repeat
with another script and so on until you find one, or you've used up all the
scripts.  In the latter case, pick the script that is closest, make a copy,
call the copy INFOTEL.SCR, edit it to use the appropriate modem commands,
test it, debug it, and when it is working properly, you are invited to
send it in for redistribution.

- Frank


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 13:33:38 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05668
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:33:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13816
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:33:43 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: WP ascii files + Kermit
Date: 28 Oct 1994 13:33:38 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 82
Message-Id: <38quji$[e-mail]>
References: <38qjgt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38qjgt$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] () writes:
> I cannot get the ascii files I have written with Wp 5.1 [saved with
> cntrl F5] uploaded to the Unix system of my Internet provider. The error
> message from kermit is "too many retries".  There are probably various
> possible solutions to this trouble but the best for me would seem to be
> stripping the files while still on my PC of the characters which kermit
> cannot digest.
>
There are no characters that Kermit cannot digest.  This is a tranmission
problem, probably caused by a communication path that is using parity.
Just tell Kermit to "set parity space" (or even, or mark) and it should
work.  Space is the most likely one to use, since Kermit can detect
even, odd, or mark parity automatically, if you are using real Kermit
software of recent vintage (the past several years).

A second question is: how will the file be used on Unix?  If you have a
Unix version of WordPerfect, then you don't have to "export" the file
(save it as "ascii only") from PC WordPerfect, in which case you should
transfer it in binary mode.  If you intend to use it for some other purpose,
then you must export it.  If that is what Ctrl-F5 does, then I suspect the
problem you are experiencing is because the file contained German letters
(Umlaute, Ess-Zet), which are 8-bit characters, which were interfered with
by parity.  SET PARITY will fix this, as I said above, but you also have
to be concerned with the character set.  Kermit will translate your
German text from the PC code page to whatever character set is used on
the Unix host to represent German text, typically ISO Latin-1 or the
German national version of ISO 646.

You can, of course, read about all of this in the manual (which is also
available in German) (and French):

  Christine M. Gianone, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", Second Edition, Digital
  Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN
  1-55558-082-3.  Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the
  IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette.

  US single-copy price: $34.95; quantity discounts available.  Available
  in computer bookstores or directly from:

    Kermit Development and Distribution
    Columbia University Academic Information Systems
    612 West 115th Street
    New York, NY  10025  USA
    Telephone: (USA) 212 854-3703

  Domestic and overseas orders accepted.  Price: $34.95 (US, Canada, and
  Mexico), $45 elsewhere.  Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or
  prepaid by check in US dollars.  Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn
  on a US bank.  Price includes shipping.  Do not include sales tax.

  You can also order by phone from the publisher, Digital Press /
  Butterworth-Heinemann, with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express:

    [phone] (Woburn, Massachusetts office for USA and Canada)
    [phone] (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada)
    [phone]   (Rushden, England office for Europe)
    [phone]  (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand)
    [phone]    (Singapore office for Asia)

  A German-language edition is also available:

    Christine M. Gianone, "MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle
    Kommunikationsprogramm", Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany
    (1991), 414 pages.  Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for
    the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including
    German-language help files.  Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke.  Price:
    DM 69,00.  ISBN 3-88229-006-4.  Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG,
    Helstorfer Strasse 7, D-30625 Hannover.  Tel. [phone],
    Fax. [phone].

  And a French-language edition:

    Christine M. Gianone, "Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi", Heinz Schiefer
    & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages.  Packaged with version 3.11 of
    MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch
    diskette.  Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre.  ISBN 2-901143-20-2.
    Heinz Schiefer & Cie., 45 rue Henri de Regnier, F-78000 Versailles.
    Tel. [phone], Fax. [phone].

- Frank


From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 13:19:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09985
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:25:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17677
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:25:06 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Keith Willett)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Using Kermit As A Passive Data Collector
Date: 28 Oct 1994 09:19:34 -0400
Organization: Wye Technologies
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <38qtp6$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: access4.digex.net
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I am interested in setting up Kermit on a Unix system which will monitor
the serial port for transmissions and write the information to a file.
The serial port is connected via null modem cable to a PBX which dumps
statistical data on a periodic basis.  The switch sends data to the
serial port as it would to a printer.  I can't signon to the switch or
otherwise communicate to it, I can only capture whatever it sends.  I
am most appreciative for any tips anyone has to offer and will forward
the results to anyone interested.  Thanks.

--
---Keith Willett

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 16:01:50 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10775
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:40:45 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07484
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:40:44 -0400
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!kocrsv08.delcoelect.com!kocrsv01!c23st
From: [e-mail] (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Kermit on AS400
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: kocrsw24
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.
References: <38lbji$[e-mail]> <38miaj$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:01:50 GMT
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38miaj$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>Nobody has ever succeeded in writing a Kermit program for the AS/400.
>Many have announced their intention to do this, but none have ever
>actually even started, as far as I can tell.  This system (together
>with its predecessors, the Systems/34, 36, and 38) is the only major
>gap in the Kermit software collection.
>
>I can only speculate that the AS/400 and its ancestors are devilishly
>hard to program, at least for communicating with outside world, since
>they use the EBCDIC character set rather than ASCII or any of its
>descendents, and since it uses bizarre and proprietary communication
>methods.

You mean that the AS/400 is even worse than MVS in that aspect?  Kermit
has been on MVS for aeons...  and it's EBCIDIC and hopefully uses the
same protocol...

Progress :-)

Spiros


--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                  Kokomo, IN 46904   [phone]
Software Development Tools, AD/SI          [e-mail]
Delco Electronics/GM Hughes Electronics    "Reading, 'Rithmetic, and Readnews"

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 21:06:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11389
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:50:51 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08319
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:50:50 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!dosa
From: [e-mail] (Young Beom Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: HELP: How to install Mac Kermit 0.991
Date: 28 Oct 1994 21:06:49 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38rp59$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ether.src.umd.edu
Keywords: Mac Kermit 0.991
Originator: [e-mail]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Can anybody help how to use (or install) Mac Kermit 0.991?
I ftp'd it and un-hqx'd by BinHex 4.0. But after then I can't go further.
How to dial up and connect to remote server, etc. I have MacII with Mac OS 7.1
and 14.4 kbps external modem. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

-Young




From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 22:04:02 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12227
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 18:04:07 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09348
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 18:04:05 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: HELP: How to install Mac Kermit 0.991
Date: 28 Oct 1994 22:04:02 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <38rsgi$[e-mail]>
References: <38rp59$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38rp59$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Young Beom Kim)
writes:
> Can anybody help how to use (or install) Mac Kermit 0.991?
> I ftp'd it and un-hqx'd by BinHex 4.0. But after then I can't go further.
> How to dial up and connect to remote server, etc. I have MacII with Mac OS
> 7.1 and 14.4 kbps external modem. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
A comprehensive user manual will be published when the final 1.0 release is
complete.  Sorry, I can't give any reasonable estimate about when that will
be.  Mac Kermit files, ftp from kermit.columbia.edu in text mode from the
kermit/test/text directory:

  ckm190.hqx -- current prerelease of Mac Kermit in BinHex 4.0 format
  ckmker.doc -- user documentation for 0.9(40), the previous release (1988)
  ckmker.ps  -- PostScript version of user documentation for 0.9(40)
  ckmker.bwr -- Notes about the current prerelease, FAQ's, etc
  ckmker.fon -- Notes about the new Mac Kermit terminal emulation font

and in the kermit/charsets directory:

  maclatin.* -- The new Mac Kermit font itself

Read the ckmker.bwr ("beware") file for further details.

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 18:26:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19621
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 20:34:47 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19592
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 20:34:45 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!astro.ocis.temple.edu!georged
From: [e-mail] (GEORGIOS DIMITOGLOU)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Need Info on DOS script
Date: 28 Oct 1994 18:26:15 GMT
Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <38rfo7$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Dear Friends,

I am trying to write a script *.scr for MS-KERMIT. what I need is a
sequence of commands that will:

1. connect ("c" to connect)
2. send a couple of breaks until there is a response
3. type a command in [enter]
4. Wait until the next prompt comes up
5. type anothe command in [enter]
6. login name:
7. password:

The point is that all the scripts I have seen, are ALL phone-line
dependent; in my situation we dont dial...just get into a banner etc...

any help, or even isolated commands will be great.


=============================================================================
TTTTTTTTTTTTT                 Temple University Press
TTTTTTTTTTTTT                    George Dimitoglou
    TTTTT                          Business Dept.
    TTTTT
    TTTTT   U.S.B Rm. 305         |  E-mail: [e-mail]
    TTTTT   Broad & Oxford Sts.,  |          [e-mail]
    TTTTT   Philadelphia,         |  Tel   : [phone]
    TTTTT   Pa 19121              |  Fax   : [phone]
==============================================================================

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 16:29:33 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22325
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 21:45:33 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23839
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 21:45:31 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!long
From: [e-mail] (NEIL J LONG)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS
Message-Id: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd>
Date: 28 Oct 94 16:29:33 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello
Just finished looking at ckermit 5A(190) with a view to running it on an SGI
Indy (Irix 5.2). It builds OK and is OK with -O2 and -mips2 options.

To use 'fast' modems uucp uses /dev/ttyf? for hardware flow control.

Is it neccessary to re-build ckermit with -DCK_RTSCTS in order to set flow
rts/cts or should I just use flow none or what.

Thanks
Neil

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 11:03:16 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13631
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:07:13 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18330
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:07:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!zib-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!sun2!s3e0101
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: WP ascii files + Kermit
Date: 29 Oct 1994 11:03:16 GMT
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38ta5k$[e-mail]>
References: <38qjgt$[e-mail]> <38quji$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: sun2.lrz-muenchen.de
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) wrote on a question I asked about
the transmission of Wp 5.1  ascii files with kermit and said inter alia:

>There are no characters that Kermit cannot digest.  This is a tranmission
>problem, probably caused by a communication path that is using parity

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 07:40:35 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14510
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:40:35 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19469
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:40:33 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!i2unix!news
From: Gianluca Attura <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Latest Beta?
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 02:31:30 CET
Organization: MC-link - Italian Dial-Up Online Service
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ax433.mclink.it
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Which is the latest MS-Kermit Beta? I've downloaded
kermit.columbia.edu:/kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip, but it reports Beta 9
instead of Beta 8.

Luca

------------------------------ Eagle ---------------------------------
                           _____ . _____
 CompuServe : 100112,3521  \__  \O/  __/  Internet  : [e-mail]
 BIX        : gattura         \__ __/     FidoNet   : 2:335/336.11
 GEnie      : G.ATTURA          /_\       Channel 1 : Gianluca Attura

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 14:10:00 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18637
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:06:12 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24905
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:06:11 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!ongsheau
From: [e-mail] (Ong Sheau Ping)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Dialing problem in Beta 7
Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:10:00 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <38lnvo$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

The Dial macro seems to be faulty. It always gives me 'Dialing script not
found'.

Also, something seems to be wrong with user defined variables.
When I do something like 'define test \m(_myvar).txt', the '.txt' after the
user variable will not be included in the variable test.

This could be why the CHKMDM macro doesn't detect the dialing script.

--

Regards,
Jonathan

*** You can mail me at '[e-mail]' ***

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 15:57:40 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18844
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:11:37 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25303
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:11:36 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!hookup!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!strath-cs!lorne.stir.ac.uk!is06
From: [e-mail] (I. Stirling)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix
Date: 26 Oct 1994 15:57:40 GMT
Organization: University of Stirling
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <38lu9k$[e-mail]>
References: <388mio$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <388j7e$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (I. Stirling)
: writes:
: > This is what I had guessed I needed, my problem is I can't seem to find

: If your version of Kermit was built without TCP/IP support, but your UNIX
: system includes it, this should be a simple matter of rebuilding C-Kermit
: to also include it.
Ah, that's it, it dosen't even give the telnet command.
: anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary
: mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz).
Thanks.
Ian Stirling.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 14:15:48 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18967
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:15:54 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25635
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:15:52 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Need Info on DOS script
Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:15:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 34
Message-Id: <38tlek$[e-mail]>
References: <38rfo7$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38rfo7$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (GEORGIOS DIMITOGLOU) writes:
> I am trying to write a script *.scr for MS-KERMIT. what I need is a
> sequence of commands that will:
> 1. connect ("c" to connect)
> 2. send a couple of breaks until there is a response
> 3. type a command in [enter]
> 4. Wait until the next prompt comes up
> 5. type anothe command in [enter]
> 6. login name:
> 7. password:
>
> The point is that all the scripts I have seen, are ALL phone-line
> dependent; in my situation we dont dial...just get into a banner etc...
>
You can write a script to do anything automatically that you would do
interactively, including decision-making, etc.  Script-writing is
documented thoroughly in the books "Using MS-DOS Kermit" and "Using
C-Kermit".  Kermit's script language is a programming language, and
programmers generally learn and work from manuals.

Two things in connection with your question:

1. You replace CONNECT (which connects a person, through the keyboard
   and screen to the external device, host, or service) with OUTPUT and
   INPUT commands.

2. There is nothing special about a modem.  You give it commands and
   read its responses, same as a computer that you are logging in to.

So if you don't want to read the documentation, then use the dialing
scripts as examples of how to carry on an automated dialog.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 14:21:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19200
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:23:19 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25894
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:23:17 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!ongsheau
From: [e-mail] (Ong Sheau Ping)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Unstable file transfer over modem
Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:21:34 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <38lole$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I've just tried beta 6 and tried to download a binary file over the
modem. Although I can download the file, but there's quite a lot retries,
and it frequently uses more than 1 sliding-windows. Previously, with ver
3.13, under the same conditions, all my file transfers were very stable,
usually with no retries, and I can have a cps of abt 1500, compared to
abt 1100 for beta 6.

--

Regards,
Jonathan

*** You can mail me at '[e-mail]' ***

From [e-mail] Wed Oct 26 16:49:01 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19851
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:45:38 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27022
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:45:37 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!hookup!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Evil Twin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6:  Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc :-)
Date: 26 Oct 1994 16:49:01 GMT
Organization: Tony's Most Excellent NewsReader
Lines: 37
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <38m19t$[e-mail]>
References: <383hca$[e-mail]> <383lhq$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: hornet.ag.uiuc.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS v1.25
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 19 Oct 1994 17:38:02 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <383lhq$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

> In article <383hca$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Daniel S.
> Lewart) writes:

[... deleted ...]

> > There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't
> > reproduce.  Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast
> > to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display.
> >
> I see this too on my SVGA, but it has nothing to do with Kermit -- it
> happens at random times no matter what application is running.
>
You know.  Sometimes in the morning my alarm doesn't wake me up.  Is
there something wrong with my kermit set-up?

Tony -












:-)

--
Evil Twin -                                                       one_spike
        the Man, the Myth, the Legend in His Own Mind -         //~____/  ~\\
                [e-mail]                       \\~    \  ~//
                                                                  one_kill!

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 14:53:45 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20040
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:53:48 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27410
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:53:47 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS
Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:53:45 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <38tnlp$[e-mail]>
References: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> [e-mail] (NEIL J
LONG) writes:
> Just finished looking at ckermit 5A(190) with a view to running it on an
> SGI Indy (Irix 5.2). It builds OK and is OK with -O2 and -mips2 options.
> To use 'fast' modems uucp uses /dev/ttyf? for hardware flow control.
> Is it neccessary to re-build ckermit with -DCK_RTSCTS in order to set flow
> rts/cts or should I just use flow none or what.
>
Unless I am missing something, there is no API in IRIX for hardware flow
control, so rebuilding with -DCK_RTSCTS would not have any affect, even
though it compiles without error.

So, as noted in ckuker.bwr, section 8, the only way to get hardware flow
control with C-Kermit under IRIX is by selecting a /dev/ttyf* device.
This is unfortunate, because Kermit does not (and can not) know that
hardware flow control is in effect, and so (for example) cannot configure
your modem correctly.  This, by the way, is the same style of implementing
hardware flow control that is used by NeXTSTEP.

Looking through <sys/termios.h>, however, I do note the following definition:

  #define CNEW_RTSCTS 010000000 /* RiscOS API compliance */

If this actually means something and can be used to control RTS/CTS, then
some code can be added to C-Kermit, probably within #ifdef IRIX51..#endif,
to take advantage of it.  If you want to look into this, please send me
e-mail.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 14:56:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20131
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:56:53 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27513
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:56:51 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Unstable file transfer over modem
Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:56:49 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <38tnrh$[e-mail]>
References: <38lole$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38lole$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ong Sheau Ping)
writes:
> I've just tried beta 6 and tried to download a binary file over the
> modem. Although I can download the file, but there's quite a lot retries,
> and it frequently uses more than 1 sliding-windows. Previously, with ver
> 3.13, under the same conditions, all my file transfers were very stable,
> usually with no retries, and I can have a cps of abt 1500, compared to
> abt 1100 for beta 6.
>
We will need more information in order to help you with this.  It is not
a general problem at all -- thousands of other people are beta-testing
MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 without noticing any degradation in performance.

Please read the KERMIT.BWR file about interrupt and memory conflicts.  I
suspect a memory conflict caused by the temporary change in SET TERMINAL
EXPANDED-MEMORY default to ON.  It has since been changed back to OFF.
If you SET TERM EXPANDED OFF and the problem goes away, this means that
you have a faulty expanded memory configuration.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 14:59:46 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20201
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:59:49 -0400
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27624
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:59:48 -0400
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Dialing problem in Beta 7
Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:59:46 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <38to12$[e-mail]>
References: <38lnvo$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38lnvo$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ong Sheau Ping)
writes:
> The Dial macro seems to be faulty. It always gives me 'Dialing script not
> found'.
> Also, something seems to be wrong with user defined variables.
> When I do something like 'define test \m(_myvar).txt', the '.txt' after the
> user variable will not be included in the variable test.
>
I think you are suffering from the time difference between New York and
Singapore.  These problems should all be fixed in Beta-9.

When reporting problems:

 (a) it is better to send your reports directly by email to
     [e-mail], to avoid the Usenet news time delay, and

 (b) please include the Beta edit number.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 17:35:45 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02175
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 05:05:51 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09310
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 05:05:49 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!concert!ais.com!bruce
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Oct 94 21:35:45 EDT
References: <38p1g8$[e-mail]>
Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC
Lines: 126
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38p1g8$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
> Maybe I'm ignorant, but *what* is the
> "standard" for ANSI terminal emulation?  I would guess that it should be
> the document (e.g. in the Microsoft DOS manual) that describes ANSI.SYS,
> the IBM PC console driver, affectionately named after the organization
> that published the X3.64 standard, which describes the form and function
> of a repertoire of escape sequences, and forms the basis for the
> VT100/VT200 and higher architectures, and which conforms to ISO Standards
> 2022 and 4873, but which certainly does not describe the ANSI console
> driver.

That style of escape sequences was known as "ANSI" long before Microsoft
used them in the ANSI.SYS driver.  I remember several terminals from the
late 70's/early 80's that did not claim full VT100 compatibility but which
did claim to be ANSI terminals.  The main distinguishing characteristics
of the new crop of `PC ANSI' terminals seem to be omitting some of the DEC
specific features and adding sequences for color.  Both ANSI.SYS and the
DECterms on DEC workstations support the color sequences (although the
DEC VT340 color graphics terminals do NOT - color is supported mainly
through the graphics commands).

> Nor does the ANSI.SYS documentation include many functions that are
> commonly used by BBSs.

The ANSI.SYS driver doesn't include many sequences that are allowed by
essentially every other `ANSI' terminal.  For example, the clear-screen
sequence in ANSI.SYS is defined to be ESC [ 2 J, which clears the entire
screen; but essentially every ANSI terminal other than ANSI.SYS allows
arguments other than 2 (0 or omitted clears from cursor to end of screen
and 1 clears from cursor to beginning of screen).  I don't think ANSI.SYS
is very representative of anything other than itself.

> For example: Two betas ago somebody complained
> that Kermit did not "correctly implement" the "ANSI" screen-clearing
> "standard".  What was it?  Just a plain, bare Ctrl-L.  To my knowledge, no
> CRT terminal in the world uses this for screen clearing (although hardcopy
> printers use it for page feed).  Not even the ANSI.SYS console driver
> clears the screen when given a Ctrl-L; it just prints a little "female"
> sign (but of course, we accommated and now Kermit follows the "ANSI
> standard for screen clearing).

There actually were a couple of terminals that would clear the screen on
a bare CTRL-L;  I think one of the early ADM terminals (not the popular
ADM-3 but an earlier one) might have, and I know that the ACT-4 did.  I
think one or another of the old Tektronix terminals or terminals that
emulated them would also allow a CTRL-L to clear the screen in addition to
the more normal ESC CTRL-L sequence that was the recommended way to clear
the screen.  (I know that wasn't universal for Tektronix-like terminals,
so very little software used it).  It's been a long time since I've dealt
with that vintage of terminals, but I might be able to dig up some old
documentation on them.

I'm unaware of any `ANSI' terminals that clear the screen on a CTRL-L, but
there might be one.  It's certainly not part of the standard, even a de
facto one.

> [Good description of the form of an ANSI escape sequence deleted]
>
> Now along comes "ANSI music".  What is it?  It is "beeper" music encoded
> like a PC BASIC "PLAY" command.  It comes right after the ESC [, and can
> start with any character at all.  Example:
>
>  ESC [ MFT120O3 G8.A32F32G4.O4C8O3A8F8D8F8O4C8O3B8O4C2 ...
>
> and is terminated by a Ctrl-N.  What is wrong with this idea?
>
> [... Analysis of problems with this scheme deleted...]

How could ANY reasonable terminal emulator interpret this syntax as
described?  Since ANSI terminals are in general at the end of a wire
with characters arriving at indeterminate intervals (unlike block mode
terminals where you usually have definite start- and end-of-packet markers
and so can know exactly what the entire sequence being sent is, so that
you can design parsers for languages where the interpretation of a token
can have a more complex dependency on later tokens in the stream), I don't
see how this could be expected to work in the general case.  The only way I
can see to implement this type of functionality reliably is on a single
system (say as an ANSI.SYS replacement) and to require that the entire
music sequence be sent in a single write command to the OS.

The amazing thing is that current practice in ANSI terminal sequences
already provides a way around this.  There are four sequences that allow
encapsulating sequences to the terminal that might not follow ANSI syntax:

    ESC P    Begin Device commands
    ESC ^    Begin Privacy commands
    ESC ]    Begin OS commands
    ESC _    Begin Application commands

All are terminated by an ESC \.  (All of these can be replaced by the
appropriate C1 control character by adding 0x40 to the character following
the ESC character and omitting the ESC).  Within the string bounded by
these sequences, you can put anything you want that your terminal
emulator can parse.  Terminals that don't know how to interpret the
sequences will just ignore them.  Why design a kludge such as described
above where you must have to make guesses about how many characters will
arrive in how much time in order to parse the string, when there is already
a way to do what the designer must have wanted?

This is the sort of thing you might expect when someone who is not
qualified to design such a protocol attempts to do so.

> You might ask, "why so hard on ANSI music?  It's cute!"  Maybe so, but
> then it should have been designed conform to the ANSI standard.  The
> problem with the current definition is not just one of purity.  It is that
> a terminal or emulator CAN NOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between a valid escape
> sequence and an ANSI music sequence that contains a valid ANSI final
> character.
>
> So... the final Kermit change noted above simply makes Kermit, when in
> ANSI mode, ignore Ctrl-N (and its counterpart, Ctrl-O).  So if you log in
> to a BBS that sends ANSI music, you are likely to see strings of letters
> and numbers on your screen when music is played, but at least from that
> point on you will no longer see total gibberish!

If you're going to support multiple character sets in ANSI mode (as opposed
to VT100 mode), then you can't ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O.  Personally I
would see this as a greater loss than producing garbage when a broken
program writes junk to the terminal, however `cute' the intended result.
If it's really becoming popular somewhere I can see the motivation however;
but I agree there's no reasonable way to parse it in the typical terminal
emulator environment.

Is there ANY terminal emulator out there that supports this abomination?

Bruce C. Wright

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 17:23:04 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15015
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:23:06 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09725
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:23:05 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready
Date: 30 Oct 1994 17:23:04 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 45
Message-Id: <390kpo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> If you're going to support multiple character sets in ANSI mode (as opposed
> to VT100 mode), then you can't ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O.  Personally I
> would see this as a greater loss than producing garbage when a broken
> program writes junk to the terminal, however `cute' the intended result.
> If it's really becoming popular somewhere I can see the motivation however;
> but I agree there's no reasonable way to parse it in the typical terminal
> emulator environment.
>
> Is there ANY terminal emulator out there that supports this abomination?
>
I presume there must be, since the music string in my message was captured
from a BBS.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about the reason we have to ignore Ctrl-N and
Ctrl-O in ANSI emulation.  It has nothing to do with how the music string
is displayed.  Who cares, right?

It's that the Ctrl-N, if interpreted as it should be, will cause the terminal
to treat all subsequent GL characters as if they were GR characters, until
a Ctrl-O is received.  Thus, after the emulator receives its first ANSI
music string, there is no longer anything legible on the screen.  Messages
and prompts come out as pure gibberish (random accented letters, box and
line drawing characters, etc).

Yes, of course ANSI music could have been implemented as "Application
Program Command" or any of the several other string-bearing escape sequences.
In fact, that's what I expected it was when I first heard of it -- a well-
defined, delimited string conforming to ANSI (i.e. American National
Standards Institute, not "ANSI" in the BBS sense) and ISO rules, containing
a series of encoded pitch and duration indications, probably as numbers
separated by semicolons.  How naive of me!

Perhaps as a result of this discussion, somebody would like to redesign
so-called "ANSI" music to conform to true ANSI/ISO rules AND not be a
totally PC-ROM-BASIC-dependent PLAY command to boot.  Then it might actually
gain some acceptance.  Should someone decide to do this, it is extremely
important that the music string begin with some kind of unique token that
identifies itself as, indeed, a music string, and possibly also a format or
version indicator, allowing for future expansion or modifications.  In
other words, don't just stick the music string into an APC, OSC, PM, or
similar command, because these escape sequences ARE ALREADY USED for
other purposes.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 18:59:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18994
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:01:13 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15512
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:01:06 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul
From: [e-mail] (Nico Garcia)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS
Date: 30 Oct 1994 18:59:52 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> <38tnlp$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cacciatore.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Oct 1994 14:53:45 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


Configuring the modem for hardware flow control is done properly in the
"dial init-string" option, which I use anyway to always set the modem
correctly no matter who used it last. Ergo, the OS does not need to know
how to configure it, just your .kermrc file.

I installed Kermit 5A(189) on an Indigo with 4.0.5f, and it worked fine
with only software flow control.

                Nico Garcia
                [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 19:45:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20584
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:45:13 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18255
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:45:12 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-10 Ready
Date: 30 Oct 1994 19:45:09 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 42
Message-Id: <390t45$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-10 is available for anonymous ftp from
kermit.columbia.edu as of 2:30pm EST, Sunday, October 30:

  kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip  - Binary ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file
  kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file

The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA.

Changes and fixes include:

 . Fossil-driver hangup bug fix, and add explict raise and lower of DTR
   signal to perform a connection hangup when using a fossil driver.

 . GETC command now returns backslash numeric codes for keys which yield
   control codes, DEL, space, and the four delimiters (, ), {, }.
   \fcode(arg) now accepts backslash numeric codes as representing a
   character. Thus \fcode(\65) and \fcode(A) both return two bytes 65.

 . Internal change to ODI handler.  Physical address length of Arcnet
   boards changed from 1 byte (which it really is) to 6 bytes to satisfy
   ODI.

 . New command SET MODEM <text> is exactly like DEFINE _MODEM <text>, but
   more intuitive, and also familiar to C-Kermit users.

 . Correct a bug in handling \$(NAME) environment-variable handling.

 . SET CARRIER ON is now enforced in addition places during packet mode,
   to ensure that carrier loss is acted upon immediately.

 . Binary-mode file transfers were broken if the transfer character-set
   was set to Japanese.  Now fixed.

Thanks, as always, to Joe Doupnik for all of this work, and to Hirofumi
Fujii for the Kanji item.  Note: Kanji terminal emulation is not yet
operational, and is still being worked on.  And thanks to all the beta
testers for their good reports!

Please continue to send reports by e-mail to [e-mail].

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 20:26:19 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22584
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:26:22 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20717
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:26:21 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Prime Kermit Binaries Now Available
Date: 30 Oct 1994 20:26:19 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <390vhb$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Binaries for Prime Kermit versions 8.12, 8.14, and 8.15 are now available
via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary
mode, files:

  prime812.run
  prime814.run
  prime815.run

Thanks to Don Prezioso and Haakan Sjoegren for sending them in!

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 20:27:27 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23237
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:38:34 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21391
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:38:34 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!barrnet.net!rahul.net!a2i!dold.a2i!dold
From: Clarence Dold <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready
Date: 30 Oct 1994 20:27:27 GMT
Organization: a2i network
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <390vjf$[e-mail]>
References: <38p1g8$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: jive.rahul.net
Nntp-Posting-User: dold
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

:  . ANSI emulator innoculated against "ANSI music".

: About so-called "ANSI" so-called "music"...  It's bad enough that we must

I wouldn't invalidate the ^N sequence just to make one BBS happy.
Does this BBS require a particular DEVICE=music.ansi.sys?
What PC emulator can interpret it (Procomm+Music)?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - [e-mail]
                - Pope Valley & Napa CA.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 20:46:08 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23532
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:48:55 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22247
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:48:53 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul
From: [e-mail] (Nico Garcia)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS
Date: 30 Oct 1994 20:46:08 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> <38tnlp$[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cacciatore.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 30 Oct 1994 18:59:52 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nico Garcia) writes:

   Configuring the modem for hardware flow control is done properly in the
   "dial init-string" option, which I use anyway to always set the modem
   correctly no matter who used it last. Ergo, the OS does not need to know
   how to configure it, just your .kermrc file.

Minor correction: this is for if your software and /dev/ entry know to handle
hardware flow control, as well.

                Nico Garcia
                [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Oct 28 13:26:11 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04169
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 19:15:50 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06465
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 19:15:49 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!solomon.technet.sg!symtech
From: [e-mail] (Symbolic_Tech.)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: modem connection
Date: 28 Oct 1994 13:26:11 GMT
Organization: Technet, Singapore
Lines: 3
Message-Id: <38qu5j$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: solomon.technet.sg
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am having a CASE 9600 modem hook up on a Personal IRIS running IRIX 5.2. I am using uucp for dialing out to Internet. However I kept having problems when I want to dial in from outside. I followed all the steps in the system administration stated in the IRIX documentation, but it still failed. Could anyone out there give me a helping hand? Everytime when I dial in from outside, I got the message connected, but the login prompt never appeared.

Thanks in advance./

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 23:44:19 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07991
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 20:41:05 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11922
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 20:41:03 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!rebecca!albnyvms.bitnet!BACIEWJ
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: vax/mac
Date: 30 Oct 1994 23:44:19 GMT
Organization: University of Albany, SUNY
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <391b4j$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: uacsc1.albany.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I have two problems:
I have set parity,handshake,flow and duplex at both ends as follows:
parity space
duplex full
flow xon/xoff
handshake none
but I cannot upload! Downloads are great! but I get massive retries until
it dies. I have 0.991(190) on the mac and they are running 5A(188) on
the vax.Any thoughts?

Also what doe one name the init file on the mac? Ckermit.ini? and does
mackermit pick it up like mskermit does?

thanks
joe baciewicz
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 13:26:57 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28106
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:13:13 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07401
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:13:11 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd
From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Using Kermit As A Passive Data Collector
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 94 19:26:57 MDT
References: <38qtp6$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38qtp6$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Keith Willett) writes:
>
> I am interested in setting up Kermit on a Unix system which will monitor
> the serial port for transmissions and write the information to a file.
> The serial port is connected via null modem cable to a PBX which dumps
> statistical data on a periodic basis.  The switch sends data to the
> serial port as it would to a printer.  I can't signon to the switch or
> otherwise communicate to it, I can only capture whatever it sends.  I
> am most appreciative for any tips anyone has to offer and will forward
> the results to anyone interested.  Thanks.
>
> --
> ---Keith Willett
---------
    Easy, and in the manual. Use Connect mode (terminal emulation),
but before starting it say LOG SESSION filename.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Oct 29 08:42:23 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28773
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:39:35 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08386
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:39:33 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!gohkeech
From: [e-mail] (Goh Kee Chye Lawrence)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: eval `resize` in macro?
Date: 29 Oct 1994 08:42:23 GMT
Organization: DISCS, NUS
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <38t1tf$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

    I'm having problem performing an eval `resize` from within a macro.
    The problem seems to be that Kermit doesn't respond to VT100
    queries while a macro is runnning.
    Are there ways around this or will there be changes to how macros
    are run to resolve this? TIA.

--
(_orenzo . Lawrence Goh <[e-mail]>
 I C _|_ X C     Department of Information Systems & Computer Science
 N I  |  K A                National University of Singapore
Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exilium, ostende.

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 18:27:15 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29496
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:07:29 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09281
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:07:27 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!concert!ais.com!bruce
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 94 22:27:15 EDT
References: <[e-mail]> <390kpo$[e-mail]>
Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC
Lines: 58
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <390kpo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>> If you're going to support multiple character sets in ANSI mode (as opposed
>> to VT100 mode), then you can't ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O.  Personally I
>> would see this as a greater loss than producing garbage when a broken
>> program writes junk to the terminal, however `cute' the intended result.
>> If it's really becoming popular somewhere I can see the motivation however;
>> but I agree there's no reasonable way to parse it in the typical terminal
>> emulator environment.
>>
>> Is there ANY terminal emulator out there that supports this abomination?
>>
> I presume there must be, since the music string in my message was captured
> from a BBS.
>
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough about the reason we have to ignore Ctrl-N and
> Ctrl-O in ANSI emulation.  It has nothing to do with how the music string
> is displayed.  Who cares, right?
>
> It's that the Ctrl-N, if interpreted as it should be, will cause the terminal
> to treat all subsequent GL characters as if they were GR characters, until
> a Ctrl-O is received.  Thus, after the emulator receives its first ANSI
> music string, there is no longer anything legible on the screen.  Messages
> and prompts come out as pure gibberish (random accented letters, box and
> line drawing characters, etc).

Frank,

I quite saw the point, although it's possible that other people might
not have.  But of course if you ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O, you have
eliminated the most common way of selecting alternate character sets.
We both know there are other ways for the host to request alternate
character sets, but most host software uses the SI/SO (CTRL-N/CTRL-O)
technique;  it's what's available on the largest number of terminals.

> Perhaps as a result of this discussion, somebody would like to redesign
> so-called "ANSI" music to conform to true ANSI/ISO rules AND not be a
> totally PC-ROM-BASIC-dependent PLAY command to boot.  Then it might actually
> gain some acceptance.  Should someone decide to do this, it is extremely
> important that the music string begin with some kind of unique token that
> identifies itself as, indeed, a music string, and possibly also a format or
> version indicator, allowing for future expansion or modifications.  In
> other words, don't just stick the music string into an APC, OSC, PM, or
> similar command, because these escape sequences ARE ALREADY USED for
> other purposes.

These are reasonable suggestions.  I don't know if it would be more
reasonable to make a music escape sequence look like another ANSI escape
sequence with `;'-delimited parameters and an operation at the end or
whether it should be in an APC or DC or other string, but if it's the latter
it should be in a format that would not be likely to be misinterpreted as,
for example, a Sixel or ReGIS string or other command string intended for
specific terminal types.

I'm sure I could do it if I could find the time but I don't seem to have
a lot lately.  Any other takers?

Bruce C. Wright

From [e-mail] Sun Oct 30 23:00:52 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00885
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:37:37 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10471
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:37:36 -0500
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!sun4nl!echelon!kees
From: [e-mail] (Kees Hendrikse)
Subject: ANSI (Was: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready)
Organization: Echelon Consultancy, Enschede, The Netherlands
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 23:00:52 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <38p1g8$[e-mail]>
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <38p1g8$[e-mail]> Frank da Cruz writes:

> OK, fine -- the ANSI standard is ANSI.SYS, plus selected VT100 items, plus
> creative interpretation of some control characters.  But if one is going
> to claim "ANSI conformance", then one should at least pay attention to the
> *form* of an ANSI escape sequence (...)

Now that you are working on implementing the BBS-ANSI-non-standard as
encompassing as possible (granted, without the music parts), would it
be very hard to also implements the 'SCO console' emulation, a.k.a.
SCO-ANSI? Of course, SCO-ANSI differs from BBS-ANSI, but at least there
is a real definition of it...

--
Kees Hendrikse                                | email:   [e-mail]
                                              |
ECHELON consultancy and software development  | phone: [phone]
PO Box 545, 7500AM Enschede, The Netherlands  | fax:   [phone]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 31 14:16:49 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07291
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:17:00 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18433
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:16:59 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: ANSI (Was: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready)
Date: 31 Oct 1994 14:16:49 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <392u8h$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kees Hendrikse) writes:
> Now that you are working on implementing the BBS-ANSI-non-standard as
> encompassing as possible (granted, without the music parts), would it
> be very hard to also implements the 'SCO console' emulation, a.k.a.
> SCO-ANSI? Of course, SCO-ANSI differs from BBS-ANSI, but at least there
> is a real definition of it...
>
We don't have any plans for this, but if there were a significant demand
(so far there has not been), we might consider it.  Many other items have
higher priority.

I believe this is basically the current ANSI screen handling, but with the
keyboard handled differently -- instead of transmitting the characters
associated with the keys, the scan codes are transmitted.

To the best of my knowledge, this is used only for communicating with the
SCO console driver.  True?

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 31 14:19:34 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07394
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:19:41 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18742
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:19:39 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: eval `resize` in macro?
Date: 31 Oct 1994 14:19:34 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <392udm$[e-mail]>
References: <38t1tf$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <38t1tf$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Goh Kee Chye
Lawrence) writes:
>     I'm having problem performing an eval `resize` from within a macro.
>     The problem seems to be that Kermit doesn't respond to VT100
>     queries while a macro is runnning.
>     Are there ways around this or will there be changes to how macros
>     are run to resolve this? TIA.
>
This is indeed a Frequently Asked Question.

When the command parser is active, the terminal emulator is not active.

When the terminal emulator is active, the command parser is not active.

Thus, when writing script programs that log into VMS (which does a SET
TERMINAL/INQUIRE) or that must respond to "cursor position report" escape
sequences (such as sent by `eval resize`), the script program itself must
look for these escape sequences and respond accordingly.

See the KERMIT.BWR file for some examples.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct 31 14:24:09 1994
Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07699
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <[e-mail]>); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:24:17 -0500
Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19088
  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:24:16 -0500
Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready
Date: 31 Oct 1994 14:24:09 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <392um9$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> I quite saw the point, although it's possible that other people might
> not have.  But of course if you ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O, you have
> eliminated the most common way of selecting alternate character sets.
> We both know there are other ways for the host to request alternate
> character sets, but most host software uses the SI/SO (CTRL-N/CTRL-O)
> technique;  it's what's available on the largest number of terminals.
>
I know.  That is whay Ctrl-N/Ctrl-O processing is disabled ONLY for "ANSI"
terminal emulation -- not VT100, VT220, VT320, etc.

I am confident that BBSs are completely unconcerned with both 7-bit access
and with character sets.  The entire premise of the BBS world is that you
have a totally transparent 8-bit communications link, and there is only
one character set in the world: code page 437.

Can anybody prove me wrong?  Is there a BBS anywhere in the world that is
designed to allow 7-bit access, or that supports different character sets,
but still expects the "ANSI" terminal type?  I would like to think so, but
I am not hopeful.

- Frank