Columbia Kermit/kermit.zip/newsgroups/misc.19940919-19941004

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From: [e-mail] (Binh Anson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Date: 19 Sep 1994 11:09:16 GMT
Lines: 13


G'day,

I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ?

Thanks,
Binh.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Binh Anson            FAX: [phone] (Perth, Australia)
                Email: [e-mail]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:15:42 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 153
Distribution: World
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Kermit, Performance, Slow, Fast

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
> I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found
> that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow!
> I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to
> Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ?
>
Yes.

But first, welcome to comp.protocols.kermit.misc.  This is the first
day of operation of this unmoderated newsgroup.  I hope it will prove
beneficial to all Kermit users.

To answer your question, somewhat longwindedly, since this Question is
Asked so Frequently :-) ...

Zmodem is optimized for speed on the assumption that it has a clear 8-bit
transparent channel with no blockages (small buffers, etc), and so, out of
the box, when it works it goes fast.  The tradeoff is that it often does
not work at all, in which case you have to configure it in various ways --
escaping of control characters, changing window size, etc.  In some cases
it can't be made to work at all, either because of the nature of the
connection, or because of one or both of the computers on the two ends.

Kermit, on the other hand, is configured to work -- i.e. transfer files --
out of the box, even under hostile conditions.  By default, it does not
assume that control characters pass through transparently, nor that large
buffers are available.  It does not even assume a full-duplex connection.
The tradeoff is speed.

In a perfect world, there would be no tradeoffs, but the world is far from
perfect.  7-bit transmission is still extremely common, small buffers are
very common, even in modern terminal servers and other communications
processors, flow control is rarely implemented correctly and effectively,
telephone lines are still noisy, and we still have a bewildering array
of communication methods needed for accessing different kinds of hosts and
services.  Most PCs are still shipped with non-buffered UARTs; many PCs
have interrupt conflicts, noisy buses, etc; many modern modems are buggy.
The list goes on.  This is by way of demonstrating that Kermit's default
tuning is not crazy, and goes a long way towards explaining its justified
reputation for dependability.

Unfortunately, because of the tradeoffs necessary to achieve its
reliability, Kermit has a reputation for slowness:

  Yes, Kermit transfers are slow if you use the default tuning.

However, you can make Kermit go as fast the communication path will permit
by changing a few parameters.  But first, here are some general principles
that apply to all communications software:

 1. Ensure that you have an effective means of flow control enabled at
    every juncture along the communication path (this applies to any file
    transfer protocol).  For example, when using high-speed,
    error-correcting modems, you should use some form of hardware flow
    control, most commonly RTS/CTS.  You have to tell the software to use
    it, AND you have to tell the modem to use it too -- if the flow
    control methods of the PC and the modem do not agree, then data will
    be lost.

 2. If your modem is capable of data compression, use it.  Fix the
    interface speed of the software to four times the connection speed if
    possible -- e.g. for a V.32bis 14400 bps connection, use an interface
    speed of 57600, or else the modem's compression capacity is likely to
    be wasted.

 3. On network connections (e.g. TCP/IP), it is usually best to turn off
    flow control entirely, because the underlying networking method
    supplies fully effective flow control.

Now, to make Kermit go fast, follow these steps:

 1. Use real Kermit software, not the many shareware and commercial
    packages, most of whose Kermit protocol implementations lack the
    performance features listed below and/or the means for the user to
    control them.

 2. Use long packets.  Kermit's default packet length is 94.  You can
    increase it to a theoretical maximum of 9024.  Give the following
    command to the file receiver:

      SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 2000  ; (or other length)

    The longer you make the packets, the more efficient the file transfer
    will be... IF IT WORKS.  If you make packets longer than some buffer
    somewhere along the line, and effective flow control is lacking, the
    transfer might not work.  Also, the longer the packet, the greater
    the chance it will be hit by noise, and the longer it takes to
    retransmit.

 3. On full duplex connections, use sliding windows.  Sliding windows
    allow packets to be transmitted in a continuous stream, rather than
    "stop and wait" style.  The command is:

      SET WINDOW 4 ; (or other number)

    The maximum is 32 (or less, depending on the implementation).  Give
    this command to *both* Kermit programs.

For text files and uncompressed binary files, this should give you very
good performance -- efficiencies in the 85%-100% range.  For compressed
files, and certain other types of binary files, you can squeeze out
another 20-25% efficiency by telling Kermit not to prefix a given list of
control characters.  A typical sequence might be:

  SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL  ;  Unprefix all control characters.
  SET CONTROL PREFIX 0 1 13 129 141 ...  ; Add back prefixes for these.

This requires a lot of trial and error because there is no way that a
communication software program can know what characters are safe and
which ones are not on a particular connection.  For example, you might be
going through an X.25 PAD where Ctrl-P will pop you back to the PAD
prompt.  Or you might be going through a TELNET terminal server where
Ctrl-] or Ctrl-^ will pop you back to the terminal server prompt.  Or the
connection might be using Xon/Xoff flow control, and sending Ctrl-S as a
data character might freeze the connection.

If you take all of these steps, using optimal packet lengths, window
sizes, and unprefixing, you should achieve transfer rates comparable to,
and often better than, the Zmodem implementations that you find in Telix,
Procomm, and similar shareware and commercial packages; for example, on a
V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis connection, RTS/CTS flow control, no parity, 57600
bps interface speed:

  Typical text files:        3500 cps (characters per second)
  Uncompressed binary files: 2400 cps (e.g. PC KERMIT.EXE)
  Compressed files:          1600 cps (e.g. ZIP files)

These figures come from Kermit News #5, June 1993, which is available via
anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/e, file
newsn5.txt (ASCII) or newsn5.ps (PostScript).  Also see newsn4.txt (.ps)
for a detailed discussion of long packets and sliding windows.

Kermit software is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu
[128.59.39.2], directory kermit and its subdirectories.  There are
literally hundreds of different Kermit programs for *almost* every machine
and operating system imaginable.  The most widely used Kermit programs
are:

 . MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 for DOS and Windows.
   No, this is not a native Windows application, but yes, this
   is the software we recommend for Windows.
   File: kermit/bin/msvib.zip.

 . C-Kermit 5A(189) for UNIX, VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, the Commodore Amiga, etc.
   UNIX: kermit/bin/cku190.tar.Z.
   VMS: Get kermit/b/ckvaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there.
   Others: Get kermit/b/ckaaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there.

 . IBM Mainframe Kermit-370 for VM/CMS, MVS/TSO, CICS, and MUSIC.
   kermit/b/ik*.*.

- Frank

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From: [e-mail] (Adam H. Lewenberg)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FILE COLLISION UPDATE problem
Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:18:43 GMT
Organization: Math Dept., University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
Lines: 23
Distribution: na

I am having a problem with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE setting.  I
send files from my home computer (OS/2 CKermit 5A(160) alpha.16) to
the computer at school (Ckermit 5A(188)) with the FILE COLLISION set
to UPDATE. Thus, I would expect that only those files on my home
commputer that are newer than the files on the school computer will be
transfered. And that is what happens...mostly. There are a few files
that constantly get transfered. Although I have not touched the
files on either system for months, everytime I run the transfer script
these few files get transfered. I have checked the dates on both
machines and they are identical, at least to the minute. Perhaps the
seconds are different?

In any case, one way around this that would even be useful in other
situations would be a FILE COLLISION setting which only transfered
files that were newer by a certain amount. For example, if one issued
the command SET FILE COLLISION UPDATEBY 60, then only those files that
were newer by at least one hour would be transfered. Comments?

                     Adam H. Lewenberg [e-mail]
--
University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, Dept. Of Mathematics
INTERNET: [e-mail]   or    [e-mail]

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FILE COLLISION UPDATE problem
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:23:34 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 24
Distribution: World
References: <35jvj3$[e-mail]>

In article <35jvj3$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Adam H.
Lewenberg) writes:
> I am having a problem with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE setting.  I
> send files from my home computer (OS/2 CKermit 5A(160) alpha.16) to
> the computer at school (Ckermit 5A(188)) with the FILE COLLISION set
> to UPDATE. ...
>
An OS/2 FAT file system records the time to a precision of 2 seconds,
whereas most other file systems record the time to a precision of
one second or less.  This the file times for the same file can differ
by one second.  In this case, Kermit takes the conservative approach
and transfers the file.  Workarounds: (1) "touch" the file on the
receiving end to force it to be newer (not recommended); (2) use an
HPFS file system instead of a FAT file system.

These comments apply also to DOS and Windows, but suggestion (2)
does not apply :-(.

Also, the latest version of OS/2 C-Kermit is 5A(190) Beta.23,
available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory
kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cko190.zip.  It works a lot better
than the earlier Alpha versions.

- Frank

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From: [e-mail] (R. Stewart Ellis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Date: 19 Sep 94 01:25:10 GMT
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Lines: 29
References: <35i2ta$[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Harry H Conover) writes:


 >I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as
 >I have for the past 10 years or so.  So far, the program has survived
 >an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the
 >Internet.  Sadly, it lacks certain features such as automatic
 >re-dial, the ability to automatically log-off on completion of
 >batch file transfers, etc.

 >It identifies itself as: IBM PC KERMIT-MS V2.28....

 >Can anyone point me to an FTP site that has a more recent MS-DOS
 >version available?

 >Thanks.

 >                              Harry C.


The regular place for kermit the last time I checked was
watsun.cc.columbia.edu.  Oak.oakland.edu is the best general PC place.  The
latest I know of is 3.13 with a couple of patches.

--
  R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765   ___________________
  Humanities & Social Science,  GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst.    /   _____  ______
  Flint, MI 48504      [e-mail]               /        / /  /  / /
  Gopher,chimera,nn,tin,jove,modems, free code is best!/________/ /  /  / /

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:30:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 43
Distribution: World
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (R. Stewart Ellis)
writes:
> [e-mail] (Harry H Conover) writes:
>  >I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as
>  >I have for the past 10 years or so.  So far, the program has survived
>  >an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the
>  >Internet.  Sadly, it lacks certain features such as automatic
>  >re-dial
>
No it doesn't.  The dialing scripts that come with MS-DOS Kermit
automatically redial for you.

>  >... the ability to automatically log-off on completion of
>  >batch file transfers, etc.
>
Not at all.  Please read the documentation.  MS-DOS Kermit includes a
script programming language that lets you set up any automated procedures
you like.

>  >It identifies itself as: IBM PC KERMIT-MS V2.28....
>
Well...  That would explain it.  Version 2.28 dates from 1986.  We've
been working on it for a solid eight years since then!  (Has it been
eight years already ???!)  The current version is 3.13, and 3.14 will
be announced for beta testing soon.  Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce.

>  >Can anyone point me to an FTP site that has a more recent MS-DOS
>  >version available?
>  >                              Harry C.
>
> The regular place for kermit the last time I checked was
> watsun.cc.columbia.edu.  Oak.oakland.edu is the best general PC place.  The
> latest I know of is 3.13 with a couple of patches.
>
To clarify, the ONE AND ONLY source for Kermit software on the Internet
is kermit.columbia.edu (which, indeed, at the present, happens to be the
same as watus.cc.columbia.edu, but might not always be, so use the
kermit name to be safe).  Please don't pick up Kermit from other sites
because we can't support it that way -- we don't know where it's been,
what's been done to it, how old it is, whether the file sets are complete,
etc etc.

- Frank

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From: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Help Request: Download Speed
Date: 19 Sep 1994 03:39:19 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 33

I have been trying to improve the file transfer speed I get while
downloading from a workstation to my PC using C Kermit and MS Kermit.
The highest rate that I've gotten for a .zip file has been ~1320 cps
(I'm using a USR 14.4K modem which achieves ~1600cps with zmodem).
Here's  what I've done so far:

- Played around with the packet length and window parameters.  By
  trial and error I found that 4 sliding windows and a packet length
  of around 900 bytes give me the best speed with the least number
  of retries.

- Disabled the modem's compression.  This improved the speed by about
  50 cps.

- Downloaded several differend types of files (with no modem compression
  and 'set file type binary' given to both Kermits) and measured the cps.
  I got ~1300 or a .zip file, ~1550 for an ASCII file, and ~1150 for a unix
  executable.

- By looking at Kermit's statistics (show statistics in MS Kermit) it
  turned out that while the serial port speed is the same in each case
  (~16900 bits/sec), the number of characters actually sent is proportionally
  higher for the .zip file compared to the text file.  So the ratio
  (chars sent/file size) is ~93% for text and ~75% for a .zip file (and
  even lower for the unix executable).

So how can I improve the efficiency?  I looks like Kermit is applying
some sort of compression (or maybe binary->ASCII encoding? or both?) that is
inflating the size of .zip files. Is this the case, and if so how
can I turn it off?  Is this a bug or a feature? :-)

Thanks,
Ramin

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Help Request: Download Speed
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:40:34 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 41
Distribution: World
References: <35j157$[e-mail]>
Keywords: Performance, Fast, Slow, Speed

In article <35j157$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Ramin Farzaneh) writes:
> I have been trying to improve the file transfer speed I get while
> downloading from a workstation to my PC using C Kermit and MS Kermit.
> The highest rate that I've gotten for a .zip file has been ~1320 cps
> (I'm using a USR 14.4K modem which achieves ~1600cps with zmodem).
> Here's  what I've done so far:
> ...
> - By looking at Kermit's statistics (show statistics in MS Kermit) it
>   turned out that while the serial port speed is the same in each case
>   (~16900 bits/sec), the number of characters actually sent is
>   proportionally higher for the .zip file compared to the text file.
>   So the ratio (chars sent/file size) is ~93% for text and ~75% for a
>  .zip file (and even lower for the unix executable).
>
See my earlier posting.  You have got the packet-length and window-size
business right, but zip files and other forms of compressed files have
a much higher proportion of control characters than do other types of files,
and therefore incur a higher control-character-prefixing penalty, and so
are transferred less efficiently.  Also note that since these files are
already compressed, Kermit can't compress them any further, and neither
can your modem.  However, in my experience, turning off Kermit's
compression (SET REPEAT COUNTS OFF) or the modem's results in only a
marginal improvement.

The big gain comes in (a) (obviously) making sure you have an 8-bit
no-parity connection (you probably do), and (b) telling Kermit to "unprefix"
most control characters, i.e. all the ones that are safe to unprefix.

C-Kermit 5A(189) or later and MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 or later are required
for control-character unprefixing.  See the CKCKER.UPD file that comes
with C-Kermit or the KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit for
details about this feature.

For more detailed discussions of Kermit file transfer performance, please
read the manuals: "Using MS-DOS Kermit" and/or "Using C-Kermit", and the
articles on performance in Kermit News numbers 4 and 5, available via
anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/b, files
newsn4.txt and newsn5.txt (ASCII, also .ps for PostScript).

- Frank

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Hounsell)
Subject: Is anybody working on kermit for windows?
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Joensuu University Language Center
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 12:23:08 GMT
Lines: 17

    Hello developers

    I would like to know if anybody is working on kermit to run under windows
winsocket. I really like kermit for telnet and terminal emulation so I would like to see
version  3.13 done as a windows program. Is there anybody out there working on it? Within
a year or so DOS will be obselete with the arrival of windows 4.1. I know most people will
not upgrade at once but DOSs days are numbered.  Most versions kermit for windows that I
have seen seem to be very old versions of kermit and thus suffer in many areas.

    TIA
    Paul
=======================================================================
 Paul Hounsell                      |disclaimer:
 Joensuu University Language Center |   Of course I have opinions, I am
 Joensuu Finland                    |   just not responsible for them
 [e-mail]             |   and neither is anybody else!
=======================================================================

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Is anybody working on kermit for windows?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:47:37 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 35
Distribution: World
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Paul Hounsell) writes:
> I would like to know if anybody is working on kermit to run under windows
> winsocket. I really like kermit for telnet and terminal emulation so I
> would like to see version 3.13 done as a windows program.
>
Wouldn't everybody!

> Is there anybody out there working on it? Within a year or so DOS will be
> obselete with the arrival of windows 4.1.
>
Maybe, maybe not.

> I know most people will not upgrade at once but DOSs
> days are numbered.  Most versions kermit for windows that I have seen seem
> to be very old versions of kermit and thus suffer in many areas.
>
That's correct.  We don't recommend any of them.  They are mainly
"proof of concept" exercises with minimal functionality, and not well
supported -- well... not supported at all.

We, the Kermit developers, intend to produce a fully functional version of
Kermit for Windows.  In fact, we have always intended to do this.  It is
very high on our list of things to do.  It is also a VERY BIG JOB, and
therefore keeps getting put off.

Meanwhile, we recommend using MS-DOS Kermit in Windows.  We support 100%.
It works fine, in a window, it can use all sorts of networking methods,
including its own built-in TCP/IP stack, but no, it does not work with
Winsock because Winsock is only available to fully 100% native Windows apps.

There may be some new developments in this area in the next few months.
Watch this space for announcements.

- Frank

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From: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: KERMIT & PCMCIA
Date: 16 Sep 1994 18:12:20 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: [phone])
Lines: 27



Has anyone ever configured Intel's 14.4 fax/data PCMCIA card to work with
kermit ???
If so, how do you handle the setting of the COMn port while trying to
use IRQ5???

Is there any tweaking necessary in any of the .SCR files and which do
I use.
So far, I've tried HAYES and the SPORT ones. I don't know whatelse
to do.

I get into terminal mode and he (the PCMCIA card) wont even speak
to me in AT.

thanks for any hints.

baffled
dwight
--
=======================================================================
=             "Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."             =
=  0/       __o                                              ,,,      =
= <|      _`\< _                                            (o o)     =
= / >  --(_)/ (_)------- [e-mail] -------ooO-(_)-Ooo- =
=======================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!medicus!bill
From: [e-mail] (Bill Chinn)
Subject: Kermit for Windows/NT
Organization: Medicus Clinical Data Systems, Alameda, CA
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:14:45 GMT
Lines: 14

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
Windows/NT?

If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here
who would love to beta test it.

I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support
for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit.

Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this
info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get.
--Bill

Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:28:18 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]>,
Bill Chinn <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
>Windows/NT?

Currently, we recommend using the 16-bit OS/2 version on Windows NT.

>If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here
>who would love to beta test it.

There are plans to create an NT version at some point in the future.

>I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support
>for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit.

When a NT version is created we will support the standard TCP/IP stacks.

>Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this
>info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get.
>--Bill


Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: C-Kermit OS/2 with TCP/IP
Date: 19 Sep 1994 15:47:35 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 37
Distribution: World
Keywords: OS/2, TCP/IP

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 11:13:01 EDT
From: Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]>
To: "Bryan H. Hodgson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CKermit-OS2 w/TCP-IP
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 19 Sep 94 09:20 EST

> I've got PC/Kermit working very successfully over TCP/IP to connect to
> our Unix boxes while users are simultaneously logged onto Novell
> servers.  Great stuff.
>
Yup, thanks.

> Now I'm trying to solve the same problem with OS2/CKermit.  And I'm
> trying to avoid springing for IBM's OS/2 product.  Are you aware of
> shareware or public domain alternatives for OS/2 TCP/IP drivers that
> will work with CKermit?
>
Nope.  This question is asked about 100 times a day on the OS/2
newsgroups, and the answer is always no.  A number of commercial TCP/IP
products are available, and OS/2 C-Kermit works with most of them.

C-Kermit 5A(190) Beta works with the following:

  IBM TCP/IP 1.2.1 (C-Kermit edit 189 and later)
  IBM TCP/IP 2.0 (edit 190)
  Essex Systems TCP/2 (edit 189 and later)
  FTP Software's PC/TCP for OS/2 (edit 190)
  IP-Switch Vantage IP (edit 190)

It does not work with Novell LAN Workplace for OS/2, although there is
some slight chance that we might be able to add this support before
leaving Beta.

anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary
mode, file cko190.zip.  Unzip and run the install script (INSTALL.CMD).

- Frank

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu)
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 14:19:01 GMT
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
>
>G'day,
>
>I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ?
>
>Thanks,
>Binh.
>--

  You could use sz within kermit

  or

  Set following on both end of kermit

  set receive packet 2000
  set windows 3
  set con u all
  set con p 0 1

  See DOC for correct syntax.

  You need MS-Kermit 3.13 and C-Kermit 5A (189) or up

  But don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors undetect
  (At least on our unix box)

Jianqing Hu                         |  Internet: [e-mail]
ECE Dept.  Illinois Inst. of Tech.  |
Chicago, IL 60616                   |  Office phone: [phone]


>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Binh Anson            FAX: [phone] (Perth, Australia)
>                Email: [e-mail]
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 15:17:50 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 15

[e-mail] (Jianqing Hu) writes:
> ... don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors undetect
> (At least on our unix box)

This should fix the problem:

set blo 3

which is short for "set block-check-type 3-char-crc-ccitt".

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:52:21 GMT
Organization: DES MOINES INTERNET, DES MOINES, IA
Lines: 17
References: <35ghag$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]

In article <35ghag$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS?
>
>Thanks.
>Mike
>
>(please e-mail me)
>[e-mail]

Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me
(P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone)

    Richard L. Philpott          |  E-MAIL:  [e-mail]
    Des Moines Internet          |  All opinions are just that, opinions!!
    5911 Meredith Drive, Suite B |  All opinions are mine only and not
    Urbandale, IA 50322          |  those of DES MOINES INTERNET

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:48:10 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 16
Distribution: World
References: <35k8j5$[e-mail]>

In article <35k8j5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> In article <35ghag$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> > Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS?
>
> Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me
> (P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone)
>
Actually, this might have been a trick question: There is no C-Kermit
for DOS.  There is MS-DOS Kermit for DOS (and Windows), and C-Kermit for
OS/2 (and UNIX, and VMS, and ... and ...).  The mere act of trying to
ftp something does not necessarily make it spring forth into existence :-)

But yes, once again, the definitive source for all Kermit software on the
Internet is kermit.columbia.edu.

- Frank

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:55:57 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 32
Distribution: World
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Keith Petersen) writes:
> [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu) writes:
> > ... don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors
> > undetected (At least on our unix box)
>
> This should fix the problem:
>
> set blo 3
>
> which is short for "set block-check-type 3-char-crc-ccitt".
>
Yes, SET BLOCK 3 should always be used.  It catches errors much better
than the lower-numbered block checks, as explained in the documentation.

For example, I once ran across a terminal server that actually swapped
characters occasionally when its was under heavy load.  Type 1 and 2
block checks (which are simple checksums) would not catch this, but type 3
(a Cyclic Redundancy Check) does.

However (mea culpa) it should be pointed out that C-Kermit 5A(190) could
introduce errors into incoming files if control-character unprefixing was
used on the characters Ctrl-O, Ctrl-N, or Ctrl-P, AND the file actually
contained these characters, AND the connection was a 7-bit, rather than
8-bit, connection (i.e. PARITY was not NONE), AND locking shift protocol
had been successfully negotiated.  This problem is fixed in C-Kermit 5A(190),
which will be released shortly, and is available now for Beta testing.

Folks, if you have problems like the one mentioned above, for goodness'
sakes, report them!  We support our work.

- Frank

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From: [e-mail] (todd spindler)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:49:18 -0400
Organization: U of Miami/RSMAS
Lines: 39
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (todd spindler)


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
>
>G'day,
>
>I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found
>that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow!
>I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to
>Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ?

Assuming that your modem supports hardware error correction (MNP5 or LAP-M)
then you can tune Kermit for quite fast file transfers.  With
error-correction handled in hardware by the modem, you can turn down the
processing Kermit uses for error-correction.  In addition, turn off the
Xon/Xoff flow control for Kermit as it is unneeded.  Increase packet
size to the maximum allowed by your Kermit applications.  The following
lines added to your .kermrc might help.

set send packet 9024
set rec packet 9024
set block 1
set flow none

On the average, assuming a fairly clean phone line, I can download about
4Mb/hour.  Your mileage may vary.

There are additional tweaks that you can try regarding 8th bit prefixing,
but I haven't got them to work just yet. You can also play with sliding
windows, if your Kermit supports them, to increase throughput, but here
again I haven't had much success with them.

--
Todd Spindler            |Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science
[e-mail]|Dept. of Meteorol & Phys Oceanography /U of Miami
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beyond the ken of mortal men, beneath the wind and waves, / Lies a land of
shells and sand, of chasms, crags, and caves, / Where coral castles climb
and soar, where swaying seaweeds grow, / While all around, without a sound,
the ocean currents flow...         _Sign of the Seahorse_ by Graeme Base

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From: [e-mail] (John Jamulla)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:21:38 GMT
Organization: Ford Motor Company -- standard disclaimers apply
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Reply-To: [e-mail]


Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line?

I'd like to use linux's "term" program and I already have kermit
all set up for my needs. I need kermit to stop buffering and
looking at the link without dropping the phone line

Please reply to below address.

Thanks in advance,
John J.
_________________________________________________________________________
[e-mail]               John Jamulla - Dearborn, MI USA
PROFS:JJAMULLA JAMULLA -ON D1D1           Ford - Car Product Development
Bldg3 2nd Floor #2638 [phone]      CAD/CAM, Dearborn, MI 48121

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From: [e-mail] (Harry H Conover)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Date: 20 Sep 1994 04:42:18 GMT
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 9
Distribution: World
References: <[e-mail]> <35k7ao$[e-mail]>

Thanks to all for the pointers on Kermit FTP sites.  I have it now.

If 3.13 proves as good a piece of software as 2.28, I'll likely end up
using it well into the 21st century.

Again, many thanks.

                                    Harry Conover

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From: [e-mail] (Jeff McAdams (J McA))
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 20 Sep 1994 03:59:58 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville, Louisville KY USA
Lines: 53
References: <35i0o4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (J. Wakeley Purple) writes:

>MDESOUZA ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: Hello All,
>:     I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc.

>: home, but the computer center guys say Kermit is way better.  they have
>: a disk, but i remember that one could download the "latest" kermit

>We at U of Louisville have an 'official' release of kermit you can get by
>copying it to your diskette.  It's got several scripts for it to ease
>access to several systems (mainframe, vax VMS, unix).

>For that reason, it's probably better to use their version and
>installation process even if it's an 'old' version.  The new versions
>mostly have networking improvements that you're not likely to use.

Ok, I work in the computer lab at the above mentioned U of Louisville.
"Our" version of kermit is the latest that is released (we just released
"our" 3.13) with scripts written to automate connections to our
mainframes.

On the machine that I am on right now, we have zmodem installed, and on
comparison, I have found zmodem to be approximately twice as fast at
transferring files as kermit is.

Your computer center guys proly told you kermit is better for one or
more of the following reasons (brainstorming as I write):

1)  They have kermit setup as we do to automate connection procedures
2)  Kermit is almost universally supported as a file transfer
3)  They can get it free or very inexpensively from Columbia and so give
that out to users

As a note for #2.  Please keep in mind that kermit originally was just a
file transfer protocol, and still can be used for that.  Nearly ALL
communications programs have a kermit protocol to use.  Kermit was
originally developed so that files could be tranfered without regard to
what system was sending or recieving those files.  Before kermit, ppl
had to find a protocol that they had in common and fiddle with it to get
it to work, after kermit, everyone just starts up kermit, and sends the
file.  VERY robust.

So in short (yeah right, too late for that I know) kermit is a very good
tool to have because if all else fails, kermit WILL work, but other comm
programs could be better depending on your setup.  I would suggest
trying some out to see which fits your needs best.  Personally, I use
telix, but I'm not exactly a power modem user.  (only 2400 bps in fact).

Chill,
J McA

Hope I've helped and haven't run too long on the subject.

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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 20 Sep 1994 12:30:38 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 74
References: <35i0o4$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <35lmnu$[e-mail]>

Jeff McAdams (J McA) ([e-mail]) wrote:
: On the machine that I am on right now, we have zmodem installed, and on
: comparison, I have found zmodem to be approximately twice as fast at
: transferring files as kermit is.

Old versions of kermit were much slower than zmodem on binary files,
but current versions are not.  If you are using the current versions
of kermit (C-kermit 5A on Unix and most other hosts, MS-Kermit 3.13
for DOS), you can get file transfers slightly faster than zmodem.

The *default* file tranfer parameters are very conservative, and must
be changed to get high throughput.  The update file that comes with
MS-Kermit 3.13 describes this is some detail.  With the host I
download from, I use the following ".kermrc" file, and get fast
reliable transfers:


set control unprefix all
set control prefix 0 1 129
set window 5
set file type binary
set receive packet 2000


..kermrc is an initialization script that C-Kermit reads when first
run.  The first two lines above are what is new with recent versions.
Kermit assumes by default that many codes, including all eight-bit
codes, will cause problems with communication between the two
machines.  Since more than a few systems use 7 data bits, this is not
an unreasonable assumption, and it allows kermit to work when zmodem
would fail, by sending eight-bit codes as two (or more?) seven-bit codes.

If your system supports eight data bits, then this is unnecessary.
"Set unprefix all" disables all such tricks.  The second line of my
..kermrc restores prefixing to only the three codes that cause problems
on my host.

: Your computer center guys proly told you kermit is better for one or
: more of the following reasons (brainstorming as I write):

: 1)  They have kermit setup as we do to automate connection procedures
: 2)  Kermit is almost universally supported as a file transfer
: 3)  They can get it free or very inexpensively from Columbia and so give
: that out to users.

I like using MS-Kermit as my terminal emulator, because

    1.  It provides excellent VT100 emulation.
    2.  All keys are reprogrammable.  We have reprogrammed our
            function keys, PageUp, PageDown, etc.  so that they
            work the same way in emacs and WordPerfect.
    3.  It provides excellent Tektronix graphics emulation,
            toggling into that mode automatically from VT100 mode.
    4.  It can be used with either serial/modem connections or
            with ethernet connections.  With ethernet connections
            it supports multiple sessions.
    5.  It's free, so we can give it away to our students.

Disadvantage:

    1.  It's not menu driven.

For file transfers, I use Zmodem when connecting to BBS's, because
most of these do not support the current higher speed version of the
kermit protocol.  When attaching to Unix hosts, I use kermit, because
Zmodem is unreliable on enough Unix systems that I have tired of
experimenting, and offers no speed advantage.


--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)

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From: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:21:54 -0400
Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited
Lines: 43
References: <35abck$[e-mail]> <35d5gi$[e-mail]>

In article <35d5gi$[e-mail]>,
Sigurd Andersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
:In article <35abck$[e-mail]>,
:Jerry Alexandratos <[e-mail]> wrote:
:: Has anyone out there been able to successfully multiplex packets so
:: that you can use kermit and another TCPIP application?  ...
::
:: I'm using Kermit v3.13 on Novell v3.11 server with the latest ODI
:: drivers, and PCTCP v2.31 odipkt.
:: ...
::
::     --Jerry       ...
::
:Jerry,
:     An answer from the campus from which you sent your question --
:PC/TCP software from FTP, Inc. includes a program called TNGLASS
:which does all the underlying packet handling, yet allows some other
:program to provide the user interface.  The DOS command to get these
:to work together is
:     TNGLASS <ip number> -E kermit.exe -F custom.ini
:where <ip number> refers to the system to which you wish to connect.
:"-E" tells TNGLASS to use the following program as the user interface.
:"-F" tells MS-KERMIT to use the specified INI file.
:
:     This has allowed people here to make use of MS-Kermit's VT220,
:VT320, and/or Tektronix 4010 terminal emulation, or to use the Kermit
:for communications concurrently with other processes (e.g., FTP).

Ah, but by using tnglass, I am limited to one connection.  If I use
Kermit in raw TCPIP mode, I can get multiple connections, and better
throughput.  Plus, if I shell to dos, I have more room to work with.
The only thing I'm looking for is a way to get better file transer
performance by using ftp instead, without having to give up any of the
goodies that I prefer to use kermit for.

    --Jerry



--
|>  Jerry Alexandratos             **  "vengo de la tierra del    <|
|>  [e-mail]      **   fuego ten cuidado cuando  <|
|>  [e-mail]   **   llamas mi nombre..."      <|

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From: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:06:18 -0400
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Lines: 36
References: <35i5nc$[e-mail]>

In article <35i5nc$[e-mail]>,
Steven Patrick Iltis <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit
>on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with
>Kermit.
>
>If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest
>transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a
>14.4 modem.

This has been the subject of much discussion at my site.  I can get about
1000 cps on a 9600 transferring a zip file to a 486 DX 66 Mhz pc without
the good uart chip (16450 or 16550, I forget).

I also added a kermit control file on the source computer.  I forget the
exact name of the control file (probably .kermitrc for a unix computer)
    set control-character unprefixed all
    set control-character prefixed 0,1,129,17,29
This is discussed in the documentation but I didn't fully appreciate the
social economic impact of doing so.  I think that kermit does something
special with binary characters (prefixes them) which adds extra
characters to transfer.  I noticed that the number of characters that
kermit was transferring was less than the block size.  btw, this is done
on the source (where the file comes from).

As well, be sure to use long blocks (but not too long).  My modem has 7k
of ram buffer.  A 9k block is too long, a 6k block is good.

The set windows did nothing for me and I think it is for more internet
transfers than modem transfers.


Doug Fraser

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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:26:02 -0700
Lines: 17
References: <35i5nc$[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis) writes:

>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit?
> with Kermit ... , I can only get about 1200 cps on a
>14.4 modem.

This is an old discussion. In short, why do you think zmodem will do
better than Kermit? Your throughput is already 83 %, and could
THEORETICALLY only improve 17 %. However, the bottleneck may not be
Kermit, but your UART, the host computer, line noise, etc, all
factors that will also slow down zmodem.

Last year's Kermit News had a performance test that showed Kermit
superior over zmodem, and I haven't seen any counter-tests. If you
convincingly measure zmodem to be faster, please publish.

--Roland        email: [e-mail]

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From: [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit for DOS/V
Date: 20 Sep 1994 06:41:22 GMT
Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield
Lines: 10
Reply-To: [e-mail]

Does anyone know the current state of kermit for DOS/V (the
IBM/Microsoft dual mode version for Japanese/English)?  I have a 3.13
beta from a site in Japan, but it has one bug that renders it almost
unusable.  The code conversion does not work properly for Old-Jis
coding as used by Japan's largest commercial database vendor, Nikkei
Telecom.

--
Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield,
Sheffield, England S10 2TN [e-mail]

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
Date: 20 Sep 1994 18:28:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 52
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: term

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John
Jamulla) writes:
> Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line?
>
Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs.  For some the
answer is yes, for others it is no.  In UNIX, of course, the answer is no.
A fundamental aspect of the UNIX operating system is that when a process
exits, all of its open files are closed.  There is no way around it.
But this is not really the question you wanted to ask.

> I'd like to use linux's "term" program and I already have kermit
> all set up for my needs. I need kermit to stop buffering and
> looking at the link without dropping the phone line
>
The real question is: How do I use Kermit with term?  Here is the answer,
from the ckuker.bwr file that is being prepared for the forthcoming C-Kermit
5A(190) release:

(11.3) USING C-KERMIT WITH TERM

The "term" program provides an error-corrected, multiplexed connection
between two UNIX systems, allowing you to run multiple applications over
a single connection, for example several terminal windows and a file
transfer simultaneously.  Term depends on a communications application
(such as C-Kermit) to make the connection and then redirect it to term's
standard i/o.  The advantages of using C-Kermit rather than other
communication programs for this include:

 . C-Kermit's script language lets you automate the entire process.

 . With C-Kermit's REDIRECT command, term sessions are not limited to
   serial connections, but can work over network connections (TCP/IP,
   X.25) too.

Here is an example showing how to set up a term session between two UNIX
systems with with C-Kermit (assuming the connection has already been
made by C-Kermit, e.g. by dialing up):

  C-Kermit> connect
  login: xxx
  Password: xxx
  $ exec term -r -s 38400 -A
  ^\c (escape back)
  C-Kermit>redirect term -s 38400 -A &
  C-Kermit>push
  $

Now you can run term clients such as trsh and tupload at the local shell
prompt.

- Frank

Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit for Psion 3a
Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:21:33 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
References: <35mv65$[e-mail]>
Keywords: Psion

In article <35mv65$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Wodehouse Lord)
writes:
> Has anyone though about a kermit for the Psion 3a?
>
There is no Psion version of Kermit in our archives, nobody has ever
mentioned this system before, and I never heard of it.  When posting
messages like this:

  Is there a Kermit program for <name-of-system>

it might also be a good idea to include a brief description of the
system -- processor, languages available, operating system, etc, so at
least we could point you to something close.

You can find a concise list of Kermit versions in the Kermit archive
at kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/a (or b, c, d, or e) in the
files aav*.hlp, where * is a 3-letter phrase indicating how the file
is sorted -- by system name, OS name, programming language, date, etc.
There are presently about 450 entries in this list.

- Frank
From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 19:51:48 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Testing 1 2 3
Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:51:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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This is a test, please ignore...  Execpt I'm wondering if any of my
postings are making it out to the world, since all the questions I answered
yesterday are being asked again today.  Maybe it's just propogation delay.

But I would appreciate a *few* replies (by email, direct to me at
[e-mail]) to let me know if you have seen this message, especially
if you are far away from New York City.

Thanks.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 14:26:10 1994
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From: [e-mail] (CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MacKermit questions....
Date: 20 Sep 1994 14:26:10 GMT
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just a few quick questions about MacKermit.....

does anyone know when version 1.0 will be released????

i'm currently using 0.9(188). i got 0.9(190) a while ago, but this
gave me endless problems when i tried to download stuff with it. anyone
else experienced this? what's wrong with it?

hope someone can answer these!

Later,
-Smoke.

-- bye!  :) -- pgp2 key available - just ask. or finger [e-mail]

With friends surrounded
The dawn mist glowing
The water flowing
The endless river
Forever and ever
                    -"High Hopes", Pink Floyd.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 21:46:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MacKermit questions....
Date: 20 Sep 1994 21:46:14 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 27
Distribution: World
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References: <35mre2$[e-mail]>
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In article <35mre2$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT) writes:
> does anyone know when version 1.0 will be released????
>
No.  As of now, and for the past four years or so, nobody has been available
on the Mac-Specific aspects of Mac Kermit, at least not for enough time to
take care of all the deficiencies that badly need attention before a final
1.0 release can be announced.

Anybody who is already comfortable programming the Macintosh in MPW C
and has a fair amount of time to devote bringing Mac Kermit into fold is
more than welcome to step forward!

> i'm currently using 0.9(188). i got 0.9(190) a while ago, but this
> gave me endless problems when i tried to download stuff with it. anyone
> else experienced this? what's wrong with it?
>
I was able to fix this problem a few weeks ago.  What was wrong was:
a file-system call that used to work in Mac OS 7.0 and earlier -- all the
way back to the very earliest Mac OS's -- stopped working in 7.1.

Pick up the fixed -- but still not release-quality -- Mac Kermit from
kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/text, text mode, file
ckm190.hqx.  Un-binHex with BinHex 4.0.  Please also get the ckmker.bwr
file and read it.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 22:32:12 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Correction
Date: 20 Sep 1994 22:32:12 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 14
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Message-Id: <35nntc$[e-mail]>
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Keywords: Bug
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 18:06:24 EDT
From: Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]>
To: Sigurd Andersen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:03:43 -0400

> In one of your postings, I think you inadvertantly included a typo
> which might confuse some ... you said that C-Kermit 5A(190) can introduce
> errors under some odd circumstances, and that C-Kermit 5A(190) fixes
> that bug.  The identical version can't do both ...
>
Right.  C-Kermit 5A(189) had the bug.  Previous and later versions do not.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 15:54:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Randolph M. Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit with expanded memory manager
Date: 20 Sep 1994 15:54:00 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept.
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Perhaps this is in the documentation somewhere, but I missed it.  When
I run Kermit and I have an expanded memory manager running, I get a lot
of noise in the connection.  Lots of beeps and missing characters, and there's
just no way to transfer a file, because too many retries are necessary.
I have old slow (8250?) UARTs, and I'm connecting at 14,400 bps.  Does
anyone have an idea what's going on?  Is there any way to fix it short of
turning of the expanded memory manager?

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 16:11:57 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Thoemke)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: specifying port number
Date: 20 Sep 1994 16:11:57 GMT
Organization: Santa Rosa Junior College, Santa Rosa, CA
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--
I am using Mac Kermit .98(62). How do I specify a port number when
telneting?

Any help would be appreciated,

(Steve Thoemke) [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:25:12 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: specifying port number
Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:25:12 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 10
Distribution: World
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References: <35n1kd$[e-mail]>
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In article <35n1kd$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve
Thoemke) writes:
> I am using Mac Kermit .98(62). How do I specify a port number when
> telneting?  Any help would be appreciated,
>
Maybe not :-)  Mac Kermit -- any version (yours is ancient) does not
make TELNET connections.  There is no TCP/IP support in Mac Kermit.
Perhaps some day.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:44:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit with expanded memory manager
Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:44:16 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 66
Distribution: World
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References: <35n0io$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35n0io$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Randolph M. Jones) writes:
> Perhaps this is in the documentation somewhere, but I missed it.  When
> I run Kermit and I have an expanded memory manager running, I get a lot
> of noise in the connection.  Lots of beeps and missing characters, and
> there's just no way to transfer a file, because too many retries are
> necessary.  I have old slow (8250?) UARTs, and I'm connecting at 14,400
> bps.  Does anyone have an idea what's going on?  Is there any way to fix
> it short of turning of the expanded memory manager?
>
From Joe Doupnik (author of MS-DOS Kermit):

Randolf,

Columbia rescued your query while I await Pony Express (sic) delivery of
the new comp.protocols.kermit.misc group to my campus. Any year now.

Let's take a few guesses.  Expanded memory needs a 64KB chunk of upper
memory block and you need to pin down where with a FRAME= command
argument to your memory manager.  Segment E000 is a common spot, but
ensure nothing gets into A000-BFFF video.  Do the same in Windows'
SYSTEM.INI, [enhanced] section. And be generous with the "exclude="
phrases to protect your machine.

Memory managers differ a lot about how a machine is switched between
real and protected mode, and the switch is needed to make visible the
big chunk of memory devoted to expanded memory (even though only a 64KB
piece is visible at one time).  If you have competing TSRs which use
expanded memory (disk caches come to mind) then they will beat up on the
machine.  Print spoolers are well known hazards for comms programs.  So
you may need to do a little local tuning to minimize the interference.

Next, be really sure there is nothing else using the IRQs of your serial
port.  Some network boards default to IRQ 3 (COM2), for example.  There
can be no sharing, else trouble.  While doing this, check port address
blocks for conflicts too; a serial port wants 8 port values starting at
the stated base, say \x03f8, and overlaps with other boards are possible
but fatal.

Please do watch any disk cache because those gems gather bytes for a
while then take a huge slice of cpu time (with interrupt recognition
defeated) to hand them out to the disk drive.  My suggestion is remove
such caching, but you can experiment to see if that is the cause.

You have probably read a lot about the 16550A buffered UART chips.  They
do work very well indeed covering up the holes created by greedy TSRs,
and I recommend you investigate available boards.  Kermit has supported
that chip in FIFO mode for many years.  For positively difficult outage
cases you might look into more expensive serial boards which simulate a
16550A but with a 1KB buffer rather than the 16 Byte kind on the chip;
the Hayes ESP board is one I use here.

Finally, look out for other TSRs such as screen savers and keyboard
helpers and FAX drivers. Each of them can cause trouble to serial comms
gear.

    Joe D.

[I would only add that MS-DOS Kermit works just fine with expanded memory
turned on, on thousands of PCs that have 8250 UARTs, including my own, so
the problem Randolph reports is not endemic to Kermit, but a peculiarity
of his setup, an unfortunate byproduct of PC architecture.  By the way,
a big advantage of expanded memory is that Kermit can take advantage of
it to store your rollback screens, so you can have literally thousands
of them.  Also...  Be sure to read the section on memory management in
the KERMIT.BWR file that comes on the MS-DOS Kermit diskette.  - Frank]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:57:08 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: OS/2 C-Kermit and SET CARRIER
Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:57:08 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 27
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <35nssk$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35mobr$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> In <35kvu0$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (R. Kimber)
writes:
> >I have a new machine and am trying to get C-Kermit working, using COM2.
> >When I try to connect I get a message something like "Carrier not
> >detected".
> Try "set carrier off" at the C-kermit command prompt.
>
It's all in the documentation.  This is normal behavior.  The question is,
what do you want carrier to do?  Most people want to know that the
connection has dropped if carrier goes off.  This is what Kermit is set up
to do by default.  The conundrum is: "If I can't communicate with carrier
is off, then how am I supposed to make a connection?"  Answer: the DIAL
command, of course.  C-Kermit's default CARRIER setting is AUTO, meaning
that carrier is not to be required by the DIAL command (makes sense,
right?), but it is required by the CONNECT command.

If you don't want to use the DIAL command, but would rather CONNECT to
the modem and type AT commands at it, then SET CARRIER OFF before giving
the CONNECT command.  But remember that when CARRIER is OFF, Kermit will
not notice if the carrier signal drops.

Version 5A(190) of C-Kermit gives you a message that pretty much tells
you this story if you attempt to CONNECT to a serial device that is not
presenting the carrier signal when Kermit's CARRIER setting is ON or AUTO.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:27:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Eugene Tyurin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Which is the latest Kermit for MacOS?
Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:27:27 GMT
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics, Stony Brook University
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Eugene Tyurin)
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Hi netters,

I'm confused: I tried to find Mac binary on kermit.columbia.edu, but
found none, on umich.edu they have kermit and mackermit files: I took
the latest one and info said: "Alpha Development version". It was
0.99 pl 190 (?) and was dated Nov. '93.

In a nutshell: where can I get latest kermit binary for MacOS ver. 6?

Thanks in advance,
--
  Eugene Tyurin ( ITP, Stony Brook Univ. )
  E-mail: [e-mail] ( MIME mail is welcome! )
     WWW: http://www.physics.sunysb.edu:80/~gene/plan.html

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 00:48:36 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Which is the latest Kermit for MacOS?
Date: 21 Sep 1994 00:48:36 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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References: <35nr4v$[e-mail]>
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In article <35nr4v$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Eugene Tyurin) writes:
> I'm confused: I tried to find Mac binary on kermit.columbia.edu, but
> found none, on umich.edu they have kermit and mackermit files: I took
> the latest one and info said: "Alpha Development version". It was
> 0.99 pl 190 (?) and was dated Nov. '93.
> In a nutshell: where can I get latest kermit binary for MacOS ver. 6?
>
Mac Kermit 0.991(190) dated 16 August 1994 or later fixes the problem
with downloading under newer System releases (7.1.x).  Now files can be
downloaded on newer systems such as Centris 660 AV with OS 7.1, Power
Mac 7100/66 with OS 7.1.2, etc, without bombs or other nasty effects.
It should also fix certain binary/text-mode confusion that seemed to
result in corrupted files when downloading in binary mode.

The last formal release of Mac Kermit was 0.9(40) in 1988.
Unfortunately, it does not work very well on newer Macintoshes or
Systems.  However, newer versions are too big for 512K Macs or below, so
you'll have to run 0.9(40) on these old models.

A great deal of work has been done on the program since 1988, but the
result (so far) is still not of release quality, though it is quite
suitable for most purposes.

The current pre-pre-release of Mac Kermit (still far from a final
release) is 0.991(190), based on C-Kermit 5A(190) Beta.  It is available
via anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2], directory
kermit/test/text.

A comprehensive user manual will be published when the final 1.0 release
is complete.  Sorry, I can't give any reasonable estimate about when
that will be.  Watch the Kermit Digest (or comp.protocols.kermit, same
thing) for further announcements.  You can subscribe to the Kermit
Digest by sending email to [e-mail] (or
[e-mail]) containing the text:

  SUBSCRIBE I$KERMIT your-personal-name-here

Mac Kermit files, ftp from kermit.columbia.edu in text mode from the
kermit/test/text directory:

  ckm190.hqx -- current prerelease of Mac Kermit in BinHex 4.0 format
  ckmker.doc -- user documentation for 0.9(40), the previous release (1988)
  ckmker.ps  -- PostScript version of user documentation for 0.9(40)
  ckmker.bwr -- Notes about the current prerelease, FAQ's, etc
  ckmker.fon -- Notes about the new Mac Kermit terminal emulation font

and in the kermit/charsets directory:

  maclatin.* -- The new Mac Kermit font itself

Read the ckmker.bwr ("beware") file for further details.

(End of ckmaaa.hlp)

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:47:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (craig szczublewski)
Subject: Re: C-Kermit for DOS questions
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: Is their a version of Kermit for DOS that supports dynamic
: blocks?  And where can that be obtained?

try kermit.columbia.edu (anonymous ftp)
the latest version for dos supports extended length packets
and sliding windows.

just follow the directions from there.

--
  +---------------------------+      +------------------------------------+
  |     Craig Szczublewski    |+     |  [e-mail]  |+
  |    Unique Systems, Inc.   ||     |   4gen!unique!craig%uunet.uu.net   ||
  | 5610 Monroe St. Suite 210 ||     |------------------------------------||
  |     Sylvania, OH 43560    ||     | A few munce ugo i cudn't evin spel ||
  |       [phone]      ||     |      injunear, now i ar won.       ||
  +---------------------------+|     +------------------------------------+|
   +---------------------------+      +------------------------------------+

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:52:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (craig szczublewski)
Subject: Re: "script" command in C Kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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As a brief example, it is script expect send

example: (logging into a unix machine)

    script ~0 ~r                  <- does not wait for anything, send a <cr>
    script ~w30login: me          <- wait for 30 sec. for login; send name
    script password: blahblah     <- wait (default time) and send password

I recommend de Cruz's (sp?) using C-Kermit book.  It is chock full of
usefull stuff and examples for building c-kermit scripts.

--
  +---------------------------+      +------------------------------------+
  |     Craig Szczublewski    |+     |  [e-mail]  |+
  |    Unique Systems, Inc.   ||     |   4gen!unique!craig%uunet.uu.net   ||
  | 5610 Monroe St. Suite 210 ||     |------------------------------------||
  |     Sylvania, OH 43560    ||     | A few munce ugo i cudn't evin spel ||
  |       [phone]      ||     |      injunear, now i ar won.       ||
  +---------------------------+|     +------------------------------------+|
   +---------------------------+      +------------------------------------+

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 13:14:47 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Kreidler)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Sending Binary Files
Date: 20 Sep 94 13:14:47 GMT
Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
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Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have
not had any luck.

Thanks in Advance,

---------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kreidler                    1501 W Shure Drive - Room 1315
Motorola Cellular        Arlington Heights, IL 60004
[e-mail]        708-632-4656
                FAX: [phone]

network: an advanced version of "connect the dots."
---------------------------------------------------------------


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 20:55:20 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP - KERMIT ==>Problems
Date: 20 Sep 1994 20:55:20 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
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References: <35dkpa$[e-mail]>
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make sure you type set file type binary on both sides of kermit, host
and local.
--
Timothy J Flynn
([e-mail])
Fine Arts &
Computer Science
Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008    phone [phone]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 20:58:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Newest Kermit Version????
Date: 20 Sep 1994 20:58:01 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
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    What is the most recent kermit version made for IBM??
Please email me only...thanks!
--
Timothy J Flynn
([e-mail])
Fine Arts &
Computer Science
Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008    phone [phone]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 21:01:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit + Windows for Workgroups??
Date: 20 Sep 1994 21:01:16 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
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What is  the best kermit setup for use with windows.  I seem to get alot
of retry messages when I use these two together...

please respond by email only!

--
Timothy J Flynn
([e-mail])
Fine Arts &
Computer Science
Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008    phone [phone]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:09:19 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:09:19 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
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In article <[e-mail]>,
John Chandler <[e-mail]> wrote:

:: If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest
:: transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a
:: 14.4 modem.
:
:1200 cps = 12,000 bps.  That's not bad for a 14,400-bps modem.

Since all 14.4 modes have v.42 error correcting, the limit is of the
order of 9.3 bits/byte (V.42 uses 8/byte + overhead), the practical
limit is around 1550cps, assuming DTE (serial) rates set to 19.2k,
hardware flow control, measuring transfer of compressed data files.

I have seen higher, but this is what you might expect with no obvious
errors in your setup and zmodem or kermit with a bit of tuning.
--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 23:04:38 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:04:38 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
Lines: 57
Message-Id: <35npq6$[e-mail]>
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In article <35mkle$[e-mail]>,
Rick Matthews <[e-mail]> wrote:

:Old versions of kermit were much slower than zmodem on binary files,
:but current versions are not.  If you are using the current versions
:of kermit (C-kermit 5A on Unix and most other hosts, MS-Kermit 3.13
:for DOS), you can get file transfers slightly faster than zmodem.

Let's say that having used both protocols for many years, both the old
and current versions, both UNIX and DOS talking in various combinations,
using all of the tuning you mention below... I've never seen any
indication that this is possible, at least for transferring compressed
data files, which is all I care about.

I often use Kermit because I don't care about the speed for small files
and Kermit gives about 95-96% of zmodem speed, but that last few percent
always eludes me.

considering that my Kermit is always the latest and my zmodem is about
four years old, I think that means there are some tricks and
dependencies in getting the last little bit out of Kermit, and that
zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user.
:
:The *default* file transfer parameters are very conservative, and must
:be changed to get high throughput.  The update file that comes with
:MS-Kermit 3.13 describes this is some detail.  With the host I
:download from, I use the following ".kermrc" file, and get fast
:reliable transfers:
:
:
:set control unprefix all
:set control prefix 0 1 129
:set window 5
:set file type binary
:set receive packet 2000

A word about that, I believe that setting the packet size to about the
amount of data you transfer in one sec over a reliable link (v.42/TCP)
or about half that for an unreliable link (modem w/o error correction
and bad line) is optimal. On most systems further tuning gives 1-2% at
most.

You may have to set the total buffer size up (set buffers) to get this
with higher speeds.

Going through *some* terminal servers I have found that keeping the
packet size <=800 gives better performance. I set the total buffering
(packet size * window) to about 5-7 times the one second throughput of
the line. This is something which may help if you have a system which
just gives bad throughput all the time. You may have 10-15 windows doing
this, it works for me.

hope these experiences are useful to someone.
--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 01:50:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ed Haymore)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 21 Sep 1994 01:50:51 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University
Lines: 15
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Bill Davidsen ([e-mail]) wrote:
| In article <[e-mail]>,
| :1200 cps = 12,000 bps.  That's not bad for a 14,400-bps modem.

| Since all 14.4 modes have v.42 error correcting, the limit is of the
| order of 9.3 bits/byte (V.42 uses 8/byte + overhead), the practical
| limit is around 1550cps, assuming DTE (serial) rates set to 19.2k,
| hardware flow control, measuring transfer of compressed data files.

I usually get above 1600cps on compressed files, with the DTE rate at
38.4k.  How much overhead is there in V.42?

--
Ed Haymore   |   AA6EJ
[e-mail]   |   Linux -- a better OS than DOS.

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 01:55:06 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ed Haymore)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
Date: 21 Sep 1994 01:55:06 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <35o3pq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <35n9jm$[e-mail]>
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Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
| In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John
| Jamulla) writes:
| > Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line?
| >
| Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs.  For some the
| answer is yes, for others it is no.  In UNIX, of course, the answer is no.
| A fundamental aspect of the UNIX operating system is that when a process
| exits, all of its open files are closed.  There is no way around it.
| But this is not really the question you wanted to ask.

Actually, I used to exit kermit all the time without hanging up the
modem...  for my Zyxel, the command "at&d0" tells it not to hang up when
DTR is dropped.  But now I run term with kermit's shell command (!)
instead, often as part of my kermit startup script.

--
Ed Haymore    |   Duct tape is like the Force.  It has a light side
[e-mail]    |   and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 16:58:43 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Maxwell E Evarts)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP
Date: 21 Sep 1994 16:58:43 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 49
Message-Id: <35poo3$[e-mail]>
References: <35abck$[e-mail]> <35d5gi$[e-mail]> <35kks2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Summary: FTP owns the board...
Keywords: MS-Kermit TCP ETHDRV PC/TCP
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>Ah, but by using tnglass, I am limited to one connection.  If I use
>Kermit in raw TCPIP mode, I can get multiple connections, and better
>throughput.  Plus, if I shell to dos, I have more room to work with.
>The only thing I'm looking for is a way to get better file transer
>performance by using ftp instead, without having to give up any of the
>goodies that I prefer to use kermit for.

Unfortunately, the ETHDRV driver that PC/TCP loads owns the board, as it
sounds like you already understand.  Here's a clip from the the
MS-Kermit "beware" file that explains indicates PKTMUX as a possible
solution for the brave (or foolhardy :-) :

------ Begin --------

Kermit always registers for the ARP and IP protocols.  In addition, but only
if you gave the command SET TCP ADDRESS RARP, it will also register for RARP.
Remember the rule:

  ONLY ONE APPLICATION PER PROTOCOL PER NETWORK BOARD!

That's why you can't run (say) PC-NFS and Kermit TCP/IP connections at
the same time.  Here are some hints for getting around this:

 . If PC-NFS comes with an Interrupt-14 redirector (similar to FTP
   Software's TNGLASS program), you can use that in conjunction with
   Kermit's SET PORT BIOS1.  Not as good Kermit's built-in TCP/IP
   TELNET, but better than nothing.

 . You can experiment with the PKTMUX driver.  This is supposed to let
   multiple TCP/IP stacks share the same network board.  Nobody knows
   very much about this, and a quick glance at the user manual is more
   than a little bit scary.  You can find PKTMUX on kermit.columbia.edu,
   directory packet-drivers/new, files pktdrv.exe and pktmux*.*.

 . You can install a second network board and give one to PC-NFS and
   the other to Kermit.  This is actually the best choice -- network
   boards don't cost much these days, especially compared to value of the
   amount of time you'd have to spend futzing with the other approaches.

------ End -------


Hope this helps.

- Max
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Maxwell Evarts                     [e-mail]
Kermit Distribution
Columbia University - AcIS         [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 17:05:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 21 Sep 1994 17:05:03 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 20
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <35pp3v$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Morris)
writes:
> On 18 Sep 1994 18:32:58 -0600 Kerry Schwab wrote:
> > Yes, look at the "REDIRECT" command.  Suppose you were trying to
> > recieve a file, you'd do "sz <file>", enter the kermit escape char,
> > then type "REDIRECT rz".
> Is this on the level? I'm using C-Kermit 5A(189) and don't have
> the redirect keyword -- which version do I need
>
5A(190).  It's in Beta.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary
mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz for gunzip).

In the archive, see the file ckurzsz.ini.

- Frank
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 16:37:17 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Gary A. Foley)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: PRTSCRN
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:46:47 UNDEFINED
Organization: Orangeburg-Calhoun TECH College
Lines: 2
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How to print screen?  Using VT100.ini Control F2 turns on the printer and back
off but I need to print the displayed screen.

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 21:04:50 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: PRTSCRN
Date: 21 Sep 1994 21:04:50 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 26
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <35q75i$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary A.
Foley) writes:
> How to print screen?  Using VT100.ini Control F2 turns on the printer and
> back off but I need to print the displayed screen.
>
Explained on pages 82-84 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit".  Very briefly, there
are two ways:

  1. Just push the Print Screen key.  This is a DOS function, having
      nothing to do with Kermit.

  2. Hold down the Ctrl key and press the End key on the numeric
     keypad.  This is a Kermit function.  By default, it does not
     actually print the screen, but rather copies it to a disk file
     whose name is (by default) KERMIT.SCN on the current disk and
     directory.

You can use method (2) to print the current screen on the printer by
first giving the command:

  SET DUMP PRN

to direct screen dumps to the PRN "file" (i.e. the printer).  For
additional details, please read the manual.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 17:14:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (YATES, JODYE)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf.
Date: 21 Sep 1994 12:14 -0500
Organization: Concordia University
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
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Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is
that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns
inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even
recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I
load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so
the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit
downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP?

All help would be appreciated.

Jodye.

email:[e-mail]




From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 22:04:15 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Maxwell E Evarts)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf.
Date: 21 Sep 1994 22:04:15 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <35qakv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Summary: Uhh, not a Kermit problem...
Keywords: DOS CRLF WP Conversion
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
YATES, JODYE <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is
>that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns
>inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even
>recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I
>load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so
>the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit
>downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP?

Uhh, I don't think this is really a Kermit problem.  Standard ASCII
format for DOS means a CR-LF (carriage-return+line-feed) at the end of
each line, which translates into a "hard return" at the end of each line
in WP terms.  Any word processor worth its salt ought to be able read
ASCII text in such a way that converts CR-LF combos into whatever it's
internal end-of-line convention calls for.

I've never used WP 6, but in 5.1 you can do it by saying Ctrl-F5,1,3.

Hope this helps.

- Max


+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Maxwell Evarts                     [e-mail]
Kermit Distribution
Columbia University - AcIS         [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 11:46:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Lambright Christian P)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Won't 'take mscustom.ini'
Date: 21 Sep 1994 11:46:39 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
Lines: 13
Distribution: inet
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I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get
the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will
use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try
it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but
repeatedly when invoking 'kermit', it doesn't seem to notice that
there even is a mscustom.ini. Only those things set/defined in the
kermit.ini file get called, and I notice that things change only if
I change them in that file.
 Also, I want to set up different .ini files to use for either a
vax system or a unix. Is this necessary or even desirable?
 Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks.
-Chris

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 11:47:04 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bjorn Kihlberg)
Subject: Re: Sending Binary Files
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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References: <kreidler.780066887@reindeer>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:47:04 GMT
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Joe Kreidler ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have
: not had any luck.

: Thanks in Advance,

: ---------------------------------------------------------------
: Joe Kreidler                    1501 W Shure Drive - Room 1315
: Motorola Cellular        Arlington Heights, IL 60004
: [e-mail]        708-632-4656
:                 FAX: [phone]

: network: an advanced version of "connect the dots."
: ---------------------------------------------------------------

Put a line into .kermrc that says: set file type binary
Curiously enough it does not default to binary. Anyone know why?

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bjorn Kihlberg                 |    email:  [e-mail]
 (C) All Copyrighted            |            [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 23:48:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Sending Binary Files
Date: 21 Sep 1994 23:48:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <35qgnl$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bjorn Kihlberg)
writes:
> Joe Kreidler ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have
> : not had any luck.
> Put a line into .kermrc that says: set file type binary
> Curiously enough it does not default to binary. Anyone know why?
>
It has to default to something.  If you don't like it to default to text
(as it does), then by all means put "set file type binary" into your
Kermit initialization file (MSKERMIT.INI, .kermrc, CKERMIT.INI, etc,
depending on which Kermit version we're talking about).

- Frank

x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 12:12:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Sending Binary Files
Date: 21 Sep 1994 12:12:30 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 14
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References: <kreidler.780066887@reindeer>
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Joe Kreidler ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have
: not had any luck.

Tell the sending kermit

    set file type binary


--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 23:49:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Won't 'take mscustom.ini'
Date: 21 Sep 1994 23:49:46 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Distribution: World
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References: <35p6ev$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <35p6ev$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lambright
Christian P) writes:
> I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get
> the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will
> use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try
> it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but
> repeatedly when invoking 'kermit' ...
>
That's because the way that MSCUSTOM.INI gets executed is by a TAKE
command in MSKERMIT.INI.

We recommend that you NOT change MSKERMIT.INI, and that you put all of
your customizations into MSCUSTOM.INI.

Then you won't get into this kind of trouble.

- Frank

x
x
x

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 17:09:11 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 21 Sep 1994 13:09:11 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <35ppbn$[e-mail]>
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In article <35o3hr$[e-mail]>,
Ed Haymore <[e-mail]> wrote:

:I usually get above 1600cps on compressed files, with the DTE rate at
:38.4k.  How much overhead is there in V.42?

Negative overhead, believe it or not. Without V.42 you send 10 bit/byte,
with start and stop bits. With V.42 you use synchronous data between the
modems, so you only have (from memory) about 8.3 bits/byte. Kermit
generally adds enough overhead to bring the overall speed dow to the
ballpark of 9.3 bits/byte, although fine tuning can improve on this
somewhat. At 1700cps you are getting about all the modem can give you.

I quoted 1550 as being a reasonable goal, compared to whatever the
original poster mentioned (1400?), rather than as an absolute limit. I
don't doubt that you can get a bit more if you work at it. For
compressed files I would not expect going above 19.2 to help, but if you
are running v.42bis (compression in the modem) you can get speeds up to
115.2k (but more like 45k on any data I've thought was "typical").
--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 00:37:58 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Monty)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7
Date: 22 Sep 1994 00:37:58 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct, Inc.
Lines: 42
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but
it was never answered:  Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP
packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13?

I load the packet driver with this command:

C:\SLIP8250>slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 57600

After successfully connecting to the remote SLIP server, I escape back to
the MS-Kermit prompt and do this:

MS-Kermit>set port tcp/ip indirect.com
MS-Kermit>connect
Cannot attach to an Ethernet Packet Driver or a Novell ODI driver.
 Unable to initialize TCP/IP system, quitting
?Cannot start the connection.
MS-Kermit>

I can, at this point, quit MS-Kermit, unload the SLIP8250 version 11.7
driver, load SLIP8250 version 9.6, re-invoke MS-Kermit, then establish a
TCP/IP connection without any problem.  What's different about the newer
version of the packet driver?  I'd like to be able to use it instead of
the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from
memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability.

Is there a SLIP packet driver available that's any better than SLIP8250
and works well with MS-Kermit 3.13?

And, in case anyone cares, I just started using MS-Kermit and have fallen
in love with it!  The VT-series terminal emulation is unsurpassed, and the
built-in TCP/IP ``stack'' (is that the right lingo?) has enabled me to
access the Internet via a SLIP connection from a wimpy i80386SX machine
with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB hard drive that doesn't ``do'' Microsoft
Windows.  The contributions to this news groups by Mr. da Cruz are superb,
as well.

Thanks for your help.


---
Jim Monty
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 19:29:59 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Phelan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit with Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i
Date: 21 Sep 1994 19:29:59 GMT
Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 6
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Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: ins.infonet.net
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Has anyone found the magic combination of settings to get MS-Kermit 3.13
to work with an Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i ?  I keep trying to get this to
work, but never have enough time to really see it through.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!
-PatP

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 19:56:12 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (David C Lawrence)
Subject: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Approved: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail] (David C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:56:12 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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comp.protocols.kermit.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote
for creation by 233:28 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 7 Sep 1994.

For your newsgroups file:
comp.protocols.kermit.misc    Kermit protocol and software.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

  The unmoderated newsgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc will be open to all
  topics related to Kermit protocol and software, including questions and
  answers regarding the acquisition and use of the software, and discussions
  of performance and protocol issues.  It is not intended as a software
  announcement forum or a software distribution method, e.g. posting of
  massive amounts of source code, although items such as short script
  programs (e.g. dialing scripts for new kinds of modems) of general interest
  can be posted, but with the understanding that the definitive source for
  Kermit software is the repository at Columbia University, and the act of
  posting an item to this newsgroup does not necessarily enter it into this
  repository.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 00:34:12 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit/SLIP/modem <-- Question!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 02:34:12 +0200
Organization: TU-Delft, dpt of Electrical Engineering
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi there,

I've been using Kermit v3.13 for quite a while now on my 8086 8Mhz PC with a
14k4 modem. Recently SLIP has become available here at our university. How do I
go about rigging Kermit for use with SLIP? Is it possible? Our sys admin says
no but I am not convinced. All I need is a slip-packetdriver right? and set
some kermit settings, right?

Can anyone enlighten me on this subject?

Thanks!

Jan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J.B. Rhebergen (JayBee)                   tel: [phone]
M. Gouweloospoort 8                       fax: [phone] (phone first)
2611 JN  Delft                            e-mail-1: [e-mail]
The Netherlands                           e-mail-2: [e-mail]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:37:07 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 22 Sep 1994 07:37:07 GMT
Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich
Lines: 52
Message-Id: <35rc73$[e-mail]>
References: <35pesr$[e-mail]>
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>I recently got a new PC. I transferred Kermit and all the scripts
>it uses from my old to my new system.
[......]
>On my old system (286, EMS, 16550A) this worked perfect. On my
>new system (486, PCI, EMM386, 16550A) the computer hangs as soon
>as the line is dropped after filling in all info.

>If I start Kermit under Windows, everything works just fine, but then
>the serial ports just look like 8250's and all benefits of high speed
>UARTS are therefore lost.

In another usegroup (can't rem. exact name, something like
"ms-windows.comm") someone posted a Microsoft info file that sayed 16550A
support for *DOS programs* is a new feature of WfW 3.11 that Win3.1 did
not have.

[....]

>Are there any known problems with PCI systems, 16550A's and Kermit?

I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a
new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new
problems now:

(1) Sometimes, but not very often, when I first start Kermit, the system
hangs, and the Ctrl-Alt-Del would not help. I guess this non-stable error
happens when Kermit analyses the Comm-Port. With my two former PCs I
already observed that Kermit *sometimes* (not very often) cannot correctly
initialize the Comm Port, with a message like "wrong hardware found for
port" or something similar. After exiting Kermit and restarting it for a
2nd, sometimes third, time everything would work fine.

(2) I used to run my connection with 19200 Baud before. This is still
possible with my new PC in terminal mode and when transferring
"non-binary" files, however when I try to download zip-Files I get lots of
retries. No problem with 9600 Baud. The 19200-Baud problem is independent
of whether or not I start Kermit under Windows (WfW3.11), and independent
of COM2Fifo=0/1 in system.ini. It also happens when I use Win-Kermit
(Win100) instead (although, due to the maximal block length 96, the chances
of getting the entire file before reaching the max retries limit are
better).

So, I also would like to hear if there are known problems with PCI,
16550A and Kermit.

Thanx in advance
Peter
--
Peter Schmolck                                [e-mail]
Department of Education                       Phone :     [phone]
Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich      Fax   :     [phone]
85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 12:38:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit/SLIP/modem <-- Question!
Date: 22 Sep 1994 12:38:18 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 50
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
> I've been using Kermit v3.13 for quite a while now on my 8086 8Mhz PC with
> a 14k4 modem. Recently SLIP has become available here at our university.
> How do I go about rigging Kermit for use with SLIP? Is it possible? Our
> sys admin says no but I am not convinced. All I need is a slip-packetdriver
> right? and set some kermit settings, right?
>
Right.  From the KERMIT.HLP file on your MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 diskette:

MAKING SLIP CONNECTIONS

To make a SLIP (Serial Line IP) connection, follow these steps:

1. SET PORT 1
   (or whichever serial port you will be using for the SLIP connection).

2. SET SPEED 19200
   (or whatever speed you will be using)

3. SET FLOW RTS/CTS (or NONE)
   Don't use Xon/Xoff flow control on a SLIP connection!  SLIP and Xon/Xoff
   are incompatible with each other.

4. Establish a connection to the terminal server or other device that will be
   providing SLIP service.  Determine the IP address and other information
   (e.g. gateway address) that it has assigned to you.    Normally, these are
   displayed on your screen before the terminal server enters SLIP mode.

5. Escape back to the MS-Kermit prompt and EXIT from MS-DOS Kermit.  The
   connection is left open.

6. Start the SLIP8250 driver, telling it to use the same port (hex address
   and IRQ number must be supplied) and speed (decimal) used in (1) and
   (2) above, and to use hardware flow control (-h), for example:

      slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 19200

7. Start MS-DOS Kermit again.  Do NOT give it a SET PORT command for the
   serial port where SLIP is running.  Instead, give the SET TCP ADDRESS,
   SET TCP GATEWAY, and other necessary SET TCP commands.  Then, to make
   a connection, use SET PORT TCP <address>, where <address> is the IP
   hostname or address of the IP host you want to connect to.

Note: In version 3.13 and later, it is also possible to obtain BOOTP service
on a SLIP connection if your SLIP server is configured to provide it (for
example, Cisco terminal servers can do this).  Also, MS-DOS Kermit 3.13's
SHOW COMMUNICATIONS command will display the IP address of the BOOTP server.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 13:01:22 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i
Date: 22 Sep 1994 13:01:22 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 92
Distribution: World
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In article <35q1jn$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Patrick Phelan) writes:
> Has anyone found the magic combination of settings to get MS-Kermit 3.13
> to work with an Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i ?  I keep trying to get this to
> work, but never have enough time to really see it through.
>
Not to my knowledge, although we have had quite a few inquiries about it.
We do not have an Intel modem on hand, nor any documentation.  If we had
the documentation, we could easily adapt one of the existing modem dialing
scripts.  So could you.  Here is our current collection of modem scripts:

    Modem Type             DOS Filename  Internet

  *  AT&T DataPort 14400    DATAPORT.SCR  kermit/a/msmdatap.scr
  *  Boca 14.4 Faxmodem     BOCA.SCR      kermit/a/msmboca.scr
  *  Digicom Connection144+ CONN144P.SCR  kermit/a/msmc144p.scr
     Hayes 1200 or 2400     HAYES.SCR     kermit/a/msmhayes.scr
  *  Hayes Ultra 144        ULTRA144.SCR  kermit/a/msmultra.scr
  *  Multitech MT1432       MT1432.SCR    kermit/a/msmmt1432.scr
  *  Penril Alliance V.32   PENRIL.SCR    kermit/a/msmpenril.scr
  *  Practical Peripherals  PP14400.SCR   kermit/a/msmpp14400.scr
     Rolm CBX DCM           ROLM.SCR      kermit/a/msmrolm.scr
  *  SupraFAXmodem V.32bis  SUPRA.SCR     kermit/a/msmsupra.scr
  *  Telebit QBlazer V.32   QBLAZER.SCR   kermit/a/msmqblazer.scr
  *  Telebit T3000 V.32bis  T3000.SCR     kermit/a/msmt3000.scr
  *  US Robotics Sportster  SPORT.SCR     kermit/a/msmsport.scr
     Vadic VA2400PA         VA2400PA.SCR  kermit/a/msmva2400.scr
  ** VIVA 2442ef FAX/MODEM  VIVA.SCR      kermit/a/msmviva.scr
  *  Wang 14/14i or 14/14e  WANG14.SCR    kermit/a/msmwang14.scr
  *  Zoltrix Platinum 14400 PP14400.SCR   kermit/a/msmpp14400.scr
  *  Zoom Telephonics 14400 ZOOM.SCR      kermit/a/msmzoom.scr
  *  ZyXEL 1496             ZYXEL.SCR     kermit/a/msmzyxel.scr

The ones marked with a single asterisk are for high-speed modems.  They
are all constructed more or less according to the following steps:

 1. Get out your modem manual.

 2. Determine the highest speed at which your modem "autobauds", i.e.
    at which you can type "AT" and carriage return, and the AT echoes,
    and the modem prints OK.  Hopefully this will be 57600 or 38400.
    Include a SET SPEED command for this speed.

 3. Make sure the modem is set to echo and to return word result codes.
    The commands are usually E1 V1 Q0.

 4. Make sure your modem is set to hang up when the computer turns off
    the DTR signal.  The command is usually something like &D2.

 5. Make sure your modem is set to turn off its DCD (Data Carrier Detect)
    signal if the connection drops.  The command is usually &C1.  This
    doesn't actually make any difference in MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 and earlier,
    but it's good practice, and can be used with SET CARRIER ON in future
    releases of MS-DOS Kermit.

 6. Issue the commands to enable modulation negotiation starting at the
    highest level your modem supports (V.34 or V.32bis), and working down.
    The commands are highly modem-specific.  Unnecessary for modems that
    do this automatically based on the interface speed.

 7. Enable RTS/CTS hardware flow control.  This is ESSENTIAL when using
    error-correcting modems.  Again, the command is modem-specific.

 8. Make the modem pass the BREAK signal through transparently.

 9. Enable error correction with fallback, preferably V.42 with fallback
    to the various MNP levels.

10. Enable data compression with fallback, preferably V.42bis with
    fallback to the various MNP levels.

11. IMPORTANT: Enable "automatic speed buffering", i.e. make sure the
    modem's interface speed is fixed, i.e. does not change in response the
    modulation negotiation.

12. Using any of the high-speed modem scripts as a template, substitute
    your modem's commands for the ones in the script.

13. Check the remainder of the script to make sure the modem responses
    used there agree with those given by your modem (CONNECT, BUSY,
    NO DIALTONE, etc).

14. Include comments saying what each command does.

15. Test your script thoroughly, then send it by e-mail to
    [e-mail] so we can add it to our collection.  In the
    comment section, unless you have strenuous objections, include your
    name and e-mail address in case questions come up later.

That should do it.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 13:28:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John D Cederman)
Subject: Uploading Text files
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 13:28:46 GMT
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Hello again,
     Here I am to talk about my solution for the problem with
Qmodem/Zmodem.  If you change your protocal to Kermit and use Kermit to
upload Text files...  You will not have any problems.  And don't worry
about a 0.0001 seconds of time one way or the other.


(cederman)



From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 17:56:06 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Won't 'take mscustom.ini'
Date: 22 Sep 1994 17:56:06 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
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In a previous article, [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) says:

>In article <35p6ev$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lambright
>Christian P) writes:
>> I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get
>> the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will
>> use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try
>> it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but
>> repeatedly when invoking 'kermit' ...
>>
>That's because the way that MSCUSTOM.INI gets executed is by a TAKE
>command in MSKERMIT.INI.
>
>We recommend that you NOT change MSKERMIT.INI, and that you put all of
>your customizations into MSCUSTOM.INI.
>
>Then you won't get into this kind of trouble.
>
>- Frank
>
>x
>x
>x
>

It could also be that if you are using MSKERMIT.INI in a non-PC clone
MSDOS environment.

There is a minor bug in older MSKERMIT.INIs that will never  take
MSCUSTOM.INI if MSKERMIT determines it is not being called from
a Kermit that identifies itself as IBM PC version.

I sent Frank the fix a while back. I imagine it is in the lastest
release?

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 16:47:13 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Redialing, Divide overflow error
Date: 22 Sep 1994 16:47:13 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: [phone])
Lines: 43
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I running kermit on my PC and I've tweaked the number of redial attempts
from the default to a high number (500 to be exact). I did this b/c
my local access number is usually busy so it's easier to keep trying.
I usually get connected after having some coffee or midnight snack.

I get a divide overflow after a varying number of attempts.
Any idea why???? I'll include a segment of my dialing script:
____________________________________________________________

:BEGIN            ; Now DIAL.
clear          ; Clear INPUT buffer.
;***********************************
;*lets  stretch out the retry count*
;***********************************
;set count 5                     ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed.
set count 500        ; my count
echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait...
echo
pause 1
goto dial                       ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message

:REDIAL
;set alarm 30
;pause 30       ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing.
;****************************************
;*lets be quicker about redials an so on*
;*alarm and pause number should be =    *
;****************************************
set alarm 3
pause 3
if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.}
echo Redialing...               ; Message for redialing.
pause 1
--------------------------------------------------------------

--
=======================================================================
=             "Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."             =
=  0/       __o                                              ,,,      =
= <|      _`\< _                                            (o o)     =
= / >  --(_)/ (_)------- [e-mail] -------ooO-(_)-Ooo- =
=======================================================================

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 03:27:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 22 Sep 1994 03:27:31 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 33
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Bill Davidsen ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <35mkle$[e-mail]>,
: Rick Matthews <[e-mail]> wrote:

: :Old versions of kermit were much slower than zmodem on binary files,
: :but current versions are not.  If you are using the current versions
: :of kermit (C-kermit 5A on Unix and most other hosts, MS-Kermit 3.13
: :for DOS), you can get file transfers slightly faster than zmodem.
<snip>
: I've never seen any
: indication that this is possible, at least for transferring compressed
: data files, which is all I care about.

: I often use Kermit because I don't care about the speed for small files
: and Kermit gives about 95-96% of zmodem speed, but that last few percent
: always eludes me.

I just transferred a GIF file and a text file, each about 180Kbytes.
On the GIF file, I timed Kermit at 96.5% of zmodem speed, close to
your experience with compressed files.  For the text file, Kermit was
106.2% of zmodem speed.

: zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user.

Agreed.  Kermit is not for the turnkey user, unless the user is
unusually patient.  Creating the three-line ".kermrc" file is
essential for reasonable throughput with kermit.

--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 02:14:22 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Won't 'take mscustom.ini'
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 08:14:22 MDT
References: <35p6ev$[e-mail]>
Distribution: inet
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35p6ev$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Lambright Christian P) writes:
> I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get
> the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will
> use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try
> it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but
> repeatedly when invoking 'kermit', it doesn't seem to notice that
> there even is a mscustom.ini. Only those things set/defined in the
> kermit.ini file get called, and I notice that things change only if
> I change them in that file.
>  Also, I want to set up different .ini files to use for either a
> vax system or a unix. Is this necessary or even desirable?
>  Any help will be appreciated.
> Thanks.
> -Chris
----------
    Perhaps the name "kermit.ini" is the culprit. MS-DOS Kermit
expects name MSKERMIT.INI; that's built into the program. That file,
in turn, can contain a line saying TAKE MSCUSTOM.INI and so on.
    Joe D.
P.S. This group has just appeared in my (Utah State Univ) News reader
so I can now follow the conversations (or make a good try). Realize that
News may take one (my case) or two days to reach outlying districts.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 13:30:48 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL
Date: 22 Sep 1994 23:00:48 +0930
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I currently use David Nugent's BNU 1.70 FOSSIL driver at home
with Binkleyterm, BGFAX and MS-Kermit, using the command line:

  Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2

MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to
work with BNU loaded on COM2:.

Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way?


--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 02:22:44 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf.
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 08:22:44 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (YATES, JODYE) writes:
> Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is
> that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns
> inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even
> recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I
> load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so
> the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit
> downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP?
>
> All help would be appreciated.
>
> Jodye.
---------
    Word processor files are NOT TEXT(!), they are pure data for that
particular program. Which means they are loaded to the gills with binary
formatting and whatnot material throughout. Treat such files as BINARY.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 23:31:48 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ramon F Herrera)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: man page for kermit?
Date: 22 Sep 1994 18:31:48 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
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Is there a man page for kermit somewhere??

-Ramon Herrera
GCT, Inc.


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 12:11:54 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf.
Date: 22 Sep 1994 12:11:54 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
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YATES, JODYE ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is
: that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns
: inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even
: recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I
: load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so
: the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit
: downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP?

You need to do a little homework to find out how your files differ
from standard ascii, and whether the hard returns exist in the
original file.  On a UNIX system you can use the command

    xd -c filename

to view the file byte by byte, including control codes and codes
greater than 127.  If you see \n (linefeed) scattered through your
text, the hard returns are already there, so you may be stuck.

If there are other problems, you have a couple of options.  The UNIX
"col" command will strip backspaces and reverse line feeds from the
file.  If there are other control codes that are giving WordPerfect a
hard time, I have a short Fortran program that strips all control
codes except newline and all eight-bit codes from your file.  It also
corrects for backspaces, leaving only the "topmost" character in the
file.  The program does use the functions "getc" and "putc" for single
character I/O.  These commons are available on many systems, but are
certainly not standard Fortran and may not be available on your
system.  It would be a piece of cake for a C programmer to translate
program, and getc and putc are standard in C.  If you are interested,
I'll email it to you.

--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 21:26:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (greek)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit changed the file name from lower case to upper case, why???
Date: 22 Sep 1994 21:26:37 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
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I am using kermit on my linux box.  It changed the file name form lower case to upper case when I download files from remote host.  Any ideas?  How can I prevent this?  Thanks!

    -Joan


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 21:08:26 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Computer hangs when line is dropped.
Date: 22 Sep 1994 21:08:26 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>> On my old system (286, EMS, 16550A) this worked perfect. On my
>> new system (486, PCI, EMM386, 16550A) the computer hangs as soon
>> as the line is dropped after filling in all info.
>>
>This kind of thing is most typically caused by a system peculiarity:

> . Noisy bus.

As I said two other comm programs have absolutely no troubles using this
setup: Linux (minicom to be precise) and Terminate.

> . A TSR that is grabbing interrupts that Kermit is supposed to see;
>   unload all your TSRs, drivers, etc, to isolate the problem.

Done that, and again, other programs do work.

> . A buggy modem.  Many internal modems have been known to cause this
>   kind of behavior -- please read the KERMIT.BWR file.

I still have the external modem, the same as with the old system.

>Also, be sure you are using the current version of Kermit, 3.13, at
>the current patch level, which is 21.

Used that one.

The symptoms I experience are the same as those reported in another follow-up
to my questions:
    1. Sometimes the computer locks immediately when Kermit starts
    2. But more often it hangs when the line is dropped by the modem

BTW although I have a PCI system, the multi-i/o card is 16-bit ISA.


Richard.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 11:27:55 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 17:27:55 MDT
References: <35qjl6$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 47
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35qjl6$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jim Monty) writes:
> Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but
> it was never answered:  Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP
> packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13?
>
> I load the packet driver with this command:
>
> C:\SLIP8250>slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 57600
>
> After successfully connecting to the remote SLIP server, I escape back to
> the MS-Kermit prompt and do this:
>
> MS-Kermit>set port tcp/ip indirect.com
> MS-Kermit>connect
> Cannot attach to an Ethernet Packet Driver or a Novell ODI driver.
>  Unable to initialize TCP/IP system, quitting
> ?Cannot start the connection.
> MS-Kermit>
>
> I can, at this point, quit MS-Kermit, unload the SLIP8250 version 11.7
> driver, load SLIP8250 version 9.6, re-invoke MS-Kermit, then establish a
> TCP/IP connection without any problem.  What's different about the newer
> version of the packet driver?  I'd like to be able to use it instead of
> the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from
> memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability.
------------
    Ok, folks. I have the answer to the puzzle. SLIP8250.COM v11.x is
broken compared to earlier releases. In particular it fails to support
the request to obtain a hardware/MAC address. Older versions said none,
but no error, for slip. The v11.7 code does not seem to even want to
discuss the matter and returns an error for the function request.
    Kermit sees the error response and bails out.
    Suggestions and workarounds. For the moment I suggest one of:
    - trying Etherslip, which makes an Ethernet framed pkt to the app
and adds a fake Ethernet address for inquiring apps. I haven't tried v11.x
yet.
    - go back to SLIP8250.COM v9.x (the one without a transmit buffer,
which will be my rewrite to work solidly, see below),
    - wait til we shove MSK v3.14 out the door with a workaround just
written to deal with this Crynwr v11.x problem.

        Etherslip is file ethersl.com. Same core material as my stuff.
I placed a copy of my v9.1 SLIP8250.COM program in directory kermit
on netlab2.usu.edu in case you can't find a pre-v11.x copy. I don't
want to mix this with the v11.x archive for obvious reasons.
    Joe D.
P.S. Russ: let's unbreak SLIP8250 please. Tnx.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 14:30:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu)
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago
References: <35pesr$[e-mail]> <35rc73$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 14:30:39 GMT
Lines: 27
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In article <35rc73$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck) writes:
>>I recently got a new PC. I transferred Kermit and all the scripts
>>it uses from my old to my new system.
>[......]
>[....]
>
>>Are there any known problems with PCI systems, 16550A's and Kermit?
>
>I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a
>new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new
>problems now:
>


Pentium 90 PCI mother board is at its very early stage, so there are a lot
of BIOS or mother board problems.

Your best bet is return to your dealer and ask for a New BIOS or exchange
for a new board.

One of my friend is a PC technician for a local PC store and he told me
this point. He himself bought a system and Windows wouldn't run if there
was a 5.25" floppy drive. He changed the board and the problem is gone.
However , the newer BIOS , the new board still has trouble to send strings
to COM port and as a result, comm program's auto dialer won't work for most
of time and zmodem never works.


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 15:07:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Andrew Veglio)
Subject: Kermit under Telix terminal program
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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  I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol
as implemented under Telix V3.15.  This program works well with my system
using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it
does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work.
  I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1
Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out
without transfering anything.
  All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit
is the only protocal supported on the Unix server.

Many Thanks
Andrew
                        _      __
Andrew Veglio                 / \    / /\    [e-mail]
Micro/Electronics Department    / ^ \  / / /                     [phone]
University of Toronto           / ___ \/ / /                         CANADA
Erindale College, Room 2004   /_/ __\__/ /
                              \_\/  \___/

--
                        _      __
Andrew Veglio                 / \    / /\    [e-mail]
Micro/Electronics Department    / ^ \  / / /                     [phone]
University of Toronto           / ___ \/ / /                         CANADA

 some of those
require a matching terminating sequence before proceeding, and some can
turn on transparent printing (a favorite way of hanging the machine until
DOS itself finally gives up trying an unavailable printer). Modems ought
not do this, but there we are. To try bypassing the problems, try a) press
ALT =  to reset the terminal emulator, b) issue hangup at the Kermit prompt
to get there first.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 17:00:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rob Gibson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i
Date: 22 Sep 1994 13:00:39 -0400
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
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I have never had a problem using kermit with my Intel 400/i.
I have the 400/i set to use com1 and hardware flow control
and I have kermit set to use RTS/CTS flow control.
--
Rob Gibson   ARPA: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 04:57:24 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: SLIP8250
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 10:57:24 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 51
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>
>From: [e-mail] (Jim Monty)
>
>Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but
>it was never answered:  Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP
>packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13?
>
>I load the packet driver with this command:
>
>C:\SLIP8250>slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 57600
>
>After successfully connecting to the remote SLIP server, I escape back to
>the MS-Kermit prompt and do this:
>
>MS-Kermit>set port tcp/ip indirect.com
>MS-Kermit>connect
>Cannot attach to an Ethernet Packet Driver or a Novell ODI driver.
> Unable to initialize TCP/IP system, quitting
>?Cannot start the connection.
>MS-Kermit>
>
>I can, at this point, quit MS-Kermit, unload the SLIP8250 version 11.7
>driver, load SLIP8250 version 9.6, re-invoke MS-Kermit, then establish a
>TCP/IP connection without any problem.  What's different about the newer
>version of the packet driver?  I'd like to be able to use it instead of
>the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from
>memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability.
>
>Is there a SLIP packet driver available that's any better than SLIP8250
>and works well with MS-Kermit 3.13?
>
>And, in case anyone cares, I just started using MS-Kermit and have fallen
>in love with it!  The VT-series terminal emulation is unsurpassed, and the
>built-in TCP/IP ``stack'' (is that the right lingo?) has enabled me to
>access the Internet via a SLIP connection from a wimpy i80386SX machine
>with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB hard drive that doesn't ``do'' Microsoft
>Windows.  The contributions to this news groups by Mr. da Cruz are superb,
>as well.
>
>Thanks for your help.
>Jim Monty
>[e-mail]
-----------
    I may have to reissue the SLIP8250 Packet Driver I wrote and then
someone modified for the latest Crynwr release. What I did worked fine
here. But I have received reports from others that the latest Crynwr edition
has troubles. We will have to see how to offer my item without introducing
confusion in the PD arena. [Russ, if you are reading this lets get together
and solve the problem.]
        Joe D.


tart Kermit under Windows (WfW3.11), and independent
>of COM2Fifo=0/1 in system.ini. It also happens when I use Win-Kermit
>(Win100) instead (although, due to the maximal block length 96, the chances
>of getting the entire file before reaching the max retries limit are
>better).

    Windows Kermit is embarassing to everyone. May we please suggest
that you get what we refer to as "the real thing", MS-DOS Kermit? MSK
runs nicely in Windows, even though it is a Windows-aware DOS program.

>So, I also would like to hear if there are known problems with PCI,
>16550A and Kermit.

    The big square chip simulating 16550As on some Pentium machines,
SMC FDC37C665 UART, definitly has problems. Some vendors are issuing
special programs to clear the chip after a boot. MSK v3.14 does pretty
much the same job transparently, which you will see when MSK 3.14 comes out.
    Joe D.

>Peter Schmolck                                [e-mail]
>Department of Education                       Phone :     [phone]
>Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich      Fax   :     [phone]
>85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY




From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 14:43:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:43:34 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <35upim$[e-mail]>
References: <35qtj3$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35qtj3$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
writes:
> : zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user.
> Agreed.  Kermit is not for the turnkey user, unless the user is
> unusually patient.  Creating the three-line ".kermrc" file is
> essential for reasonable throughput with kermit.
>
Matter of preference.  If by "turnkey user" you mean somebody who wants a
file transfer to either be fast or else fail, you're right.  On the other
hand, if a turnkey user is someone who wants a transfer to work out of the
box, even if it is slow, then I'd say Kermit is the ticket.

This is an old and neverending debate and there's no right or wrong.
In many situations, Zmodem is just fine -- particularly in the BBS world
where one does not find the many obstructions that exist on mainframes
and minicomputers, networks, and so on.  It works out of the box, and goes
fast.  But as soon as you bring multiuser computers, terminal servers,
networks, PADs, IBM mainframes, and assorted other factors besides just
two PCs and two modems into the picture, users have to do just as much
tuning to get Zmodem to work as Kermit users have to do to get Kermit --
which already works in these environments -- to go fast.

It's not worth arguing about.  When there are variables -- like word size,
packet length, window size, etc -- they must have defaults.  If you don't
like the defaults, you can change them.  This applies equally to Kermit and
to Zmodem.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 14:48:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit changed the file name from lower case to upper case, why???
Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:48:03 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <35upr3$[e-mail]>
References: <35ssqd$[e-mail]>
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In article <35ssqd$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (greek) writes:
> I am using kermit on my linux box.  It changed the file name form lower
> case to upper case when I download files from remote host.  Any ideas?
> How can I prevent this?  Thanks!
>
Read in the documentation about the SET FILE NAMES command.

By default, Kermit converts filenames into an innocuous "canonical" form
during transfer, so as not to upset receiving systems that might not
support lowercase letters, multiple dots, wierd punctuation, etc.  If you
don't want Kermit to do that, simply tell it not to.

You already must have done something with the file names, because UNIX
C-Kermit (including Linux), unless you tell it otherwise, converts the
incoming "canonical form" (uppercase) filenme back to lowercase.

So if you had not messed with the defaults, you probably would not have
wound up with uppercase filenames.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 14:50:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit under Telix terminal program
Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:50:37 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
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Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andrew
Veglio) writes:
>   I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol
> as implemented under Telix V3.15.  This program works well with my system
> using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it
> does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work.
>   I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1
> Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out
> without transfering anything.
>   All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit
> is the only protocal supported on the Unix server.
>
Try MS-DOS Kermit instead of Telix.  If it works and Telix doesn't, then
report the problem to the Telix people.

If MS-DOS Kermit doesn't work either, then report it to [e-mail]
and we'll be glad to help.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 14:53:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: man page for kermit?
Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:53:53 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Ramon F Herrera) writes:
> Is there a man page for kermit somewhere??
>
Since you say "man page", you are probably referring to UNIX C-Kermit?
Of course there's a man page.  It comes with C-Kermit.  If you ordered
it from us on tape or cartridge, it's there with all the other files.
If you ftp'd the ckuXXX.tar.Z file, it's in the tar archive.  The name
of the man page file is ckuker.nr.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 16:19:04 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Modem Sharing Over TCP/IP
Date: 23 Sep 1994 16:19:04 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 36
Distribution: World
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References: <35sr7b$[e-mail]>
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In article <35sr7b$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, Will Estes <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> >: I use cisco terminal servers, and have a modempool setup on the
> >: cs500. I am sure other terminal servers are perfectly capable of
> >: doing the same.
> >: Anyone can telnet to the IP address and gets the next modem in the
> >: rotary.
> >So how would this help to redirect COM1 on a DOS or Windows machine
> >to the modem pool?
>
> ...  Under DOS you could run ms-kermit over
> a packet driver and telnet to the modem's IP address, then chat with
> the modem to dial out.  A little extra work but since kermit's dialers
> are done with scripts anyway you could hide it all if you want.
>
Yup.  Also, C-Kermit (for UNIX, OS/2, VMS, AOS/VS, and Stratus VOS) supports
this too, in a very natural way.  First you "set host" to the terminal
server, then you "set modem" to the appropriate modem type, and then you
dial.  Real easy.  See "Using C-Kermit", Chapter 3, especially p.74, for
further details.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
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x
x (Apologies for the x's - my news program made me do it...)

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 01:12:59 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Lowey)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Date: 23 Sep 1994 01:12:59 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 48
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John Chandler ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Steven Patrick Iltis ([e-mail]) wrote:

: : Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit?

: No, they are different protocols.

True, they are different protocols, but it is also true that you can use
rz and sz with kermit, if you use an external Zmodem program like DSZ
(for DOS).

I use the OS/2 kermit, and an external SZ and RZ program. I start SZ
going on the unix box, escape back to kermit, start the "rz" program
running, and download my files. I can also go the other way.

I never use the Kermit protocol for downloading any more. I just use the
Kermit program for the excellent terminal emulation.

: : If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest
: : transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a
: : 14.4 modem.

: 1200 cps = 12,000 bps.  That's not bad for a 14,400-bps modem.

I have the 16550an uart in my computer, and use OS/2 2.11, and OS/2
versions of Kermit and external Zmodem protocols. My Zyxel modem is
locked at 57600bps between the modem and my serial port. I have a 486/33 cpu.

When I transfer pre-compressed .ZIP files between two 19200bps Zyxel
modems, I consistantly get 2222cps. Even when running tasks in other windows.

When my Zyxel connects to a slower 14400bps modem, I usually get about
1550cps on .ZIP files.

Of course, all bets are off on text files. I've had some that have gone
at up to 7000cps.

--
- Kevin Lowey ([e-mail], Client Services Educational Services Team)
  http://www.usask.ca/~lowey/  --- gopher skynet.usask.ca
  1982 CB650SC, DoD#975 - The ride is my true destination.

     I'm just collateral damage of the Political Correctness Movement


Steven Wright Says ...
My house is on the median strip of a highway.  You don't really notice,
except I have to leave the driveway doing 60 mph.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 01:45:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 23 Sep 1994 01:45:03 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 39
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[e-mail] (Peter Schmolck) writes:

>I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a
>new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new
>problems now:

>(1) Sometimes, but not very often, when I first start Kermit, the system
>hangs, and the Ctrl-Alt-Del would not help. I guess this non-stable error
>happens when Kermit analyses the Comm-Port. With my two former PCs I
>already observed that Kermit *sometimes* (not very often) cannot correctly
>initialize the Comm Port, with a message like "wrong hardware found for
>port" or something similar. After exiting Kermit and restarting it for a
>2nd, sometimes third, time everything would work fine.
[...]

>So, I also would like to hear if there are known problems with PCI,
>16550A and Kermit.

I have a 486 DX2/66 with VESA local bus and 16550A UARTS, and I have
the exact same problem.  I don't think it's Kermit's fault though, as
I have seen it happen with other programs that access the COM ports (
including MSD).  I have noticed two things:

(1)  It happens less often if I don't load the dreaded EMM386 memory
     manager.  I don't use this "thing" when I use Kermit and/or
     Windows.

(2)  It is *much* more likely to happen if I turn the modem on after
     the computer has finished booting, or if I turn the modem on
     and off at any other time. So now I first turn on my modem (an
     external USR Sportster 14.4K) then boot the computer, and only
     turn the modem off at the end of the day.


I'd like to hear more about this matter, but I'm not sure this is
the proper newsgroup for it.

Cheers,
Ramin

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 23 03:29:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit changed the file name from lower case to upper case, why???
Date: 22 Sep 1994 20:29:52 -0700
Lines: 15
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[e-mail] (greek) writes:

>I am using kermit on my linux box.  It changed the file name form lower case to upper case when I download files from remote host.  Any ideas?  How can I prevent this?  Thanks!

>    -Joan

Using C-Kermit, Frank DaCruz, 1993, Digital Press, page 114:
   SET FILE NAMES LITERAL
Is probably also mentioned in the .hlp files with the Kermit distribution
(ftp kermit.columbia.edu).
Check also out the command:
   SET ATTRIBUTES ON

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 00:34:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John Chandler)
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Bjorn Kihlberg ([e-mail]) wrote:
: John Chandler ([e-mail]) wrote:
: : Steven Patrick Iltis ([e-mail]) wrote:

: I am myself forced (:-)) to use kermit instead of rz/sz and would love to get
: the same througput. What is the major obstruction? Packet length?

You need to tune the parameters according to the type of connection.  Yes,
set the packet length to a thousand or two, enable sliding windows, and
turn off flow control if you can get away without it.  If you have binary
files to transfer (but, then, you wouldn't likely get any compression out
of the modem!), you need to set up for 8-bit transmission if possible and
also to suppress prefixing for as many control characters as you can.
Obviously, the 8-bit consideration also applies if you have text files
with extended character sets.

--
John F. Chandler             [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 23 03:36:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit under Telix terminal program
Date: 22 Sep 1994 20:36:56 -0700
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[e-mail] (Andrew Veglio) writes:

>  I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol
>as implemented under Telix V3.15.  This program works well with my system
>using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it
>does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work.
>  I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1
>Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out
>without transfering anything.
>  All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit
>is the only protocal supported on the Unix server.

IMHO it doesn't make any sense to run the Kermit file transfer
protocol under Telix. Just use Kermit INSTEAD of Telix. So far,
I have only heard of people that think Kermit file transfer
is slow (not true) and therefore want to run zmodem under Kermit.

Your 7E1 connection is exactly the reason why Kermit was invented in the
first place. Don't even think of downloading binary data with X/Y/Zmodem.

--Roland
email: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 14:58:36 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Redialing, Divide overflow error
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 20:58:36 MDT
References: <35sceh$dgt$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 54
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35sceh$dgt$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget) writes:
>
> I running kermit on my PC and I've tweaked the number of redial attempts
> from the default to a high number (500 to be exact). I did this b/c
> my local access number is usually busy so it's easier to keep trying.
> I usually get connected after having some coffee or midnight snack.
                              ^^^^^^^^------- Hmmm
> I get a divide overflow after a varying number of attempts.
> Any idea why???? I'll include a segment of my dialing script:
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> :BEGIN            ; Now DIAL.
> clear          ; Clear INPUT buffer.
> ;***********************************
> ;*lets  stretch out the retry count*
> ;***********************************
> ;set count 5                     ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed.
> set count 500        ; my count
> echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait...
> echo
> pause 1
> goto dial                       ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message
>
> :REDIAL
> ;set alarm 30
> ;pause 30       ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing.
> ;****************************************
> ;*lets be quicker about redials an so on*
> ;*alarm and pause number should be =    *
> ;****************************************
> set alarm 3
> pause 3
> if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.}
> echo Redialing...               ; Message for redialing.
> pause 1
> --------------------------------------------------------------
------
    I am going to guess the timer stuff spanned midnight and the time
of day calculations failed (INPUT has a divide when converting seconds to
HHMMSS stuff in t
e code). I am NOT going to sit up til midnight to find
out, thankyouverymuch. But I will inspect the code and try to catch the
difficulty.
    Just as a general warning, timers crossing midnight are going
to lead to confusion because I don't try to carry a day number around in
the code (it's expensive). I do try to follow the great circle path, but
it may not be foolproof everywhere.
    Workaround: let's both get some sleep.
    Thanks for the "timely" remark since MSK 3.14 would have the
same problem.
    Joe D.

P.S. Another generality. It helps us a lot to know the version number of
the Kermit you are using (on both ends if that's the case). Please add
that information to your queries.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 07:04:48 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 13:04:48 MDT
References: <35s0u8$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35s0u8$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh) writes:
> I currently use David Nugent's BNU 1.70 FOSSIL driver at home
> with Binkleyterm, BGFAX and MS-Kermit, using the command line:
>
>   Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2
>
> MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to
> work with BNU loaded on COM2:.
>
> Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way?
-------------
    If it works then the answer is no problem. Be sure to tell MSK
to use a BIOS serial port (SET PORT BIOSn, n=1..4) rather than the hardware
port (COMx) so there will be no bus wars about hardware ownership. Your
example suggests that you told Kermit to use the hardware, which it is
able to do better than Fossil drivers. Since MSK tries to restore hardware
to its pre-use state (but leaves DTR high and the speed where Kermit last
used it, etc) you probably got away with stealing the port from BNU; no
guarantees that this always works.
    The BNU docs should say that all applications should use it via
Bios serial port Int 14h functions. I don't know if they do.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 09:00:19 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Pentia, Windows Kermit, etc
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 15:00:19 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <35v4gd$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 30
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

> I have checked for IRQ-conflicts. However, hoping that I'm not unduly
> ignorant in that matter, could you, Joe, please expand on what one can
> do to check on "excessiv bus speed on the serial stuff". I've looked around
> in the CMOS setting and only found that the PCI bus is tacted at 8Mhz,
> not 10, is this relevant here?
    That's relevant. The "standard" bus speed is 8.33MHz, and above
it all bets are off. Wait states are tweakable on some systems, and
maybe ought not to be. DMA transfer details can hog the bus if you have
a bus master board which uses that method (SCSI boards for example, and
sound boards).

> I'm using MS-Kermit 3.13 and C-Kermit 5A; "direct" serial connection to
> the distant Unix-server. And, to repeat, I get exessive numbers of retries
> only with 19200 Baud (not with 9600 Baud), only with binary files (not
> with text files, independent of transfer mode), and only when downloading
> files. With my former 486-66 PC I did not have that problem. Probably it
> isn't Kermit's fault, since WinKermit is affected as well (sorry, just
> forgot not to mention it again :)), but maybe there is a workaround.
    It still looks like a flow control problem to me, or a disk cache
program effect (dumping its accumlation and taking its sweet time about
it). But there could be something strange on the Unix side which echos
XON/XOFF back to the DOS machine right in the middle of other bytes.
The way I do first tier diagnosis is by recording a packet log on both
ends and then wading through it looking for hints. That's the LOG PACKET
command.
    If you have control codes unprefixed then that is a nice opening
for systems to play with the data stream. If you have a terminal server
or other piece of electronics in the path then that may need inspection
for byte-greed too.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 05:23:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Microcom AX/9624c mnp class 6 dialing script?
Date: 23 Sep 1994 05:23:45 GMT
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
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The subject says it all. Anyone have a dialing script for this neast?

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 06:41:57 1994
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cancel <[e-mail]>

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 09:08:38 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Volker Heun)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MSKERMIT: IRQ5 on port 3
Date: 23 Sep 1994 09:08:38 GMT
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
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Hello,

does anybody know how to configure MSKERMIT such that  Kermit use IRQ 5
on COM3 instead of IRQ 4??
I'am using MSKERMIT Version 3.13
Thanks in advance

Volker
                              \\\//
                              (o-o)
..........................oOO..\ /..OOo......................................
Volker Heun                     v       Email: [e-mail]
Institut f"ur Informatik                              Phone: [phone]
Technische Universit"at M"unchen                        Fax: [phone]
Arcisstr. 21                                                Room: (SB2) S2238
D-80290 M"unchen               WWW: http://hpmayr1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/
Germany                                                    personen/heun.html
.............................................................................

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 15:04:47 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John DeGood)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 23 Sep 1994 15:04:47 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site
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Ramin Farzaneh ([e-mail]) wrote:
: [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck) writes:
: >I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a
: >new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new
: >problems now:
:
: >(1) Sometimes, but not very often, when I first start Kermit, the system
: >hangs, and the Ctrl-Alt-Del would not help. I guess this non-stable error
: >happens when Kermit analyses the Comm-Port.
:
: I have a 486 DX2/66 with VESA local bus and 16550A UARTS, and I have
: the exact same problem.

I have an IBM "Blue Lightning" motherboard (75 MHz clock tripled CPU)
with 16550 UARTs, and Kermit hangs 100% of the time on my system when it
first accesses the COM ports after a poweron.  I've discovered that if I
then do a hardware reset to force a reboot from the hung state that
Kermit runs perfectly until the next time I turn the power off.  If I
use a Windows terminal emulator the COM ports work fine, even the 1st
time after poweron.

I'm glad to see these other postings.  I had assumed this was a race
condition in my motherboard, but it sounds like there may be a race in
kermit's initialization code instead.

John DeGood  [e-mail]
Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site (Wilmington, Delaware)

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 10:13:54 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 23 Sep 1994 10:13:54 GMT
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[e-mail] (Jianqing Hu) writes:

>Pentium 90 PCI mother board is at its very early stage, so there are a lot
>of BIOS or mother board problems.

First I have a DX2/66 PCI motherboard. Secondly, like Frank, you
overlook two other applications that run perfectly and furthermore
Kermit under Windows does work but it does see the COM ports as a simple
8250 then.
So, I claim that there is a bug in Kermit dealing with 16550a's in pure
DOS under certain circumstances like faster CPU's or higher bus speeds.

While I use Terminate, I can download texts with 65% efficiency of 57600 bps
(v42.bis compression), play and change tracks of audio CD's, let
Terminate warn me through my Soundblaster and use my mouse.
I think that shows that there are no problems with this setup
and that IRQ conflicts are not there.
I get the same perfect results while using minicom under Linux:
expected 65% efficiency of 57600 bps while downloading with ZMODEM.

Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port.
What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand
so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area?


Richard.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 17:50:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Pentia, Windows Kermit, etc
Date: 23 Sep 1994 17:50:05 GMT
Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich
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Joe Doupnik's response to my posting was quite helpful with regard to one
of two problems I'm experiencing with my new Pentium PC, namely, the
reason for system hangs when starting Kermit for the first time after
booting:

>    The big square chip simulating 16550As on some Pentium machines,
>SMC FDC37C665 UART, definitly has problems. Some vendors are issuing
>special programs to clear the chip after a boot. MSK v3.14 does pretty
>much the same job transparently, which you will see when MSK 3.14 comes out.

(msd says I've got a "16650AF" UART, the computer handbook calls
it "SMC665", however)

Regarding the other problem (lots of retries when downloading binary
files with 19200 Baud), what he sayed in the following quote seems
relevant to me:

>Common suggestions include do thoroughly check
>for conflicts and excessive bus speed on the serial stuff. I have no PCI
>system myself so I can not run down the list of bugs in the current crop
>of motherboards.

I have checked for IRQ-conflicts. However, hoping that I'm not unduly
ignorant in that matter, could you, Joe, please expand on what one can
do to check on "excessiv bus speed on the serial stuff". I've looked around
in the CMOS setting and only found that the PCI bus is tacted at 8Mhz,
not 10, is this relevant here?

>    Windows Kermit is embarassing to everyone. May we please suggest
>that you get what we refer to as "the real thing", MS-DOS Kermit? MSK
>runs nicely in Windows, even though it is a Windows-aware DOS program.

I promise never to mention Windows Kermit again! :) (Actually I nearly
only use it in cases when nothing else, e.g. Alt-' (German keyboard!),
helps to clear the Comm port).

I'm using MS-Kermit 3.13 and C-Kermit 5A; "direct" serial connection to
the distant Unix-server. And, to repeat, I get exessive numbers of retries
only with 19200 Baud (not with 9600 Baud), only with binary files (not
with text files, independent of transfer mode), and only when downloading
files. With my former 486-66 PC I did not have that problem. Probably it
isn't Kermit's fault, since WinKermit is affected as well (sorry, just
forgot not to mention it again :)), but maybe there is a workaround.

Thanks for all responses to my question, and also in advance,
Peter
--
Peter Schmolck                                [e-mail]
Department of Education                       Phone :     [phone]
Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich      Fax   :     [phone]
85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 14:52:29 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Quan Nguyen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MSKERMIT: IRQ5 on port 3
Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:52:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <35u5um$[e-mail]>,
Volker Heun <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>does anybody know how to configure MSKERMIT such that  Kermit use IRQ 5
>on COM3 instead of IRQ 4??

set com3 \x03E8 5
set port 3



--
*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X
Quan Nguyen                              [e-mail]
Program in Social Relations              [e-mail]
University of California, Irvine

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 15:21:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John DeGood)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 23 Sep 1994 15:21:51 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site
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Following-up to my own post, I earlier wrote:
: I have an IBM "Blue Lightning" motherboard (75 MHz clock tripled CPU)
: with 16550 UARTs, and Kermit hangs 100% of the time on my system when it
: first accesses the COM ports after a poweron.  I've discovered that if I
: then do a hardware reset to force a reboot from the hung state that
: Kermit runs perfectly until the next time I turn the power off.  If I
: use a Windows terminal emulator the COM ports work fine, even the 1st
: time after poweron.
:
: I'm glad to see these other postings.  I had assumed this was a race
: condition in my motherboard, but it sounds like there may be a race in
: kermit's initialization code instead.

I just discovered in another posting:

In <[e-mail]> Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:
>     There are known bugs with the big square chip simulating 16550As
> on some Pentium systems, and MSK 3.14 (not out) works around them. The bug
> is normally associated with first use of a serial port after a boot.

My system is not Pentium-based, but perhaps "the big square chip" (or
the 16550 cell it contains) is also used on the other motherboards that
have been cited as experiencing kermit hangs on startup?

John DeGood  [e-mail]
Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site (Wilmington, Delaware)

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 04:46:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 10:46:05 MDT
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Lines: 36
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In article <35u9p2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman) writes:
> [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu) writes:
>
>>Pentium 90 PCI mother board is at its very early stage, so there are a lot
>>of BIOS or mother board problems.
>
> First I have a DX2/66 PCI motherboard. Secondly, like Frank, you
> overlook two other applications that run perfectly and furthermore
> Kermit under Windows does work but it does see the COM ports as a simple
> 8250 then.
> So, I claim that there is a bug in Kermit dealing with 16550a's in pure
> DOS under certain circumstances like faster CPU's or higher bus speeds.
    <part omitted>
> Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port.
> What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand
> so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area?
> Richard.
---------
    Kermit's handling of the 16550A chip is fine, has been ever since
the chips came out. But... motherboards and peripherals differ considerably,
and the single word "fail" is too general for me to do much with.
    Please note that Kermit actually safely tests your hardware before
using it, contrary to the "shoot first, ask questions later" technique of many
comms programs. If the test fails then the odds are in favor of something
being peculiar in your machine.
    I ask people to review the extensive material in text file MSKERM.BWR
and open the covers of their machine to ensure things are the way one thinks
they might be (check those jumpers). Watch out for TSRs hitting the ports,
mouse drivers and fax programs included. While I enjoy tinkering with hardware
as much as the next person my crystal ball has a finite range; hence, I can't
diagnose the machine by remote control. That has to be your concern.
        As in all complex situations the path to solutions is simplify
and isolate carefully. Divide and conquer (except when divide overflows).
Ask a friend to be a cross examiner during the process, and don't forget those
sacrifical chickens.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 06:29:25 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Edmond Siu)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Windows Modem setup
Date: 24 Sep 1994 06:29:25 GMT
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Does anybody know what line I have to add to system.ini or win.ini for windows inorder to use com port 4? because if I run telix in windows on com 4. the computer crashes.. There is a special line I'm suppose to add to it inorder to make windows accept communication on com port 4.

plese reply if you know the solution


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 14:46:23 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Kamalkumar R. Desai)
Subject: Re: kermit dialing help (3.1.3 on PC)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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In <35ckr8$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Cliff Stamp) writes:

>Does anyone know how to tell kermit to redial after a set number
>of rings/busy signals. Right now it is set to around 25 and I would
>like to lower it to 2.
>
>Thanks for your time.
>--
>Cliff Stamp
>[e-mail]
>


Try editing a file named "yourmod.SCR"
where yourmod is your modem name, or model filename

You can edit MSKERMIT.INI to see which file sets your personnel settings
most probably in the end of the file with a statement TAKE 'MYFILE.INI'
where myfile is the file with personnel settings, this file will tell you
which model file it is using.


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 15:51:26 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Maurizio Codogno)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,alt.computers.folklore
Subject: BOO bootstrap
Followup-To: poster
Date: 23 Sep 1994 17:51:26 +0200
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Yup, it's not a Kermit-related question but I am fairly sure that a lot of time
ago (6 years?) in the Kermit mailing list someone came out with a BOO.COM file
which was actually sendable via mail because it contained just printable
characters. Could you please send me a copy of it?

ciao, .mau.
--
Maurizio ".mau." Codogno - CSELT UF/DD - Torino - [e-mail]

 Well, you can take it any way you want, ... It's a rock'n'roll symphony,
 and it's gonna be the death of me.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 04:29:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MSKERMIT: IRQ5 on port 3
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 10:29:37 MDT
References: <35u5um$[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35u5um$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Volker Heun) writes:
>
> Hello,
>
> does anybody know how to configure MSKERMIT such that  Kermit use IRQ 5
> on COM3 instead of IRQ 4??
> I'am using MSKERMIT Version 3.13
> Thanks in advance
>
> Volker
-----------
    Please read release text file MSKERM.BWR, particularly the section
starting on line 202. SET COMx etc.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 16:53:17 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!forrest
From: [e-mail] (Jon Forrest)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions
Date: 22 Sep 1994 16:53:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <35scpt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: toe.cs.berkeley.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup
recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead
of Joe and Frank (and others) wasting their time regurgating
this material, I suggest they simply say "RTFM, document X,
page Y, section Z".

This approach shouldn't apply to questions in which people say
"I've read document X, page Y, section Z and I don't understand
what they mean by ...". People who can't afford to buy the material
that costs money should also be excused.

There is enough to do without helping people who haven't done
their homework.

--
Anything you read here is my opinion and in no way represents the Univ. of Cal.
Jon Forrest WB6EDM     [e-mail]     510-643-6764
377 Soda Hall, Univ. of Cal., Berkeley, CA. 94720-1776

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 13:27:20 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Brainwave Surfer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 09:27:20 -0400
References: <35scpt$[e-mail]>
Organization: Medical College of Virginia
Lines: 20
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35scpt$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Forrest) writes:
> There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup
> recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead
> of Joe and Frank (and others) wasting their time regurgating
> this material, I suggest they simply say "RTFM, document X,

    snip....

maybe we could build a FAQ???

Good point, Jon....

Jim

         /^^^\   \ /   Jim Agnew         | [e-mail]  (Internet)
        /      >  ||   Neurosurgery,     | AGNEW@VCUVAX        (Bitnet)
   /\_/     '   \  /   MCV-VCU           | This disc will self destruct in
 /________________>    Richmond, VA, USA | five seconds.  Good luck, Jim..."
    ***error, brain i/o fault****


From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 02:42:54 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!uunet!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!puma
From: [e-mail] (puma)
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: organized?? me?
References: <35i5nc$[e-mail]> <35lkoa$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 02:42:54 GMT
Lines: 31
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35lkoa$[e-mail]>,
Roland Kwee <[e-mail]> wrote:
>[e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis) writes:
>
>>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit?
>> with Kermit ... , I can only get about 1200 cps on a
>>14.4 modem.
>
>This is an old discussion. In short, why do you think zmodem will do
>better than Kermit? Your throughput is already 83 %, and could
>THEORETICALLY only improve 17 %. However, the bottleneck may not be
>Kermit, but your UART, the host computer, line noise, etc, all
>factors that will also slow down zmodem.


1200 is not 83% of available.
The modem strips the start and stop bits, and sends the data between
modems in synchronous mode.  The potential throughput is actually
10*14400/8, which is 1800 cps.

Now, you have to include bytes for controls, command exchanges between
the modems, block start and stop, CRCs, all of which reduce the space
available for 'real' data.  Using Ymodem-G, which doesn't wait between
blocks for ack's, I usually get about 1650 to 1680 cps on zip files,
which are not really compressible, and much more on text files or
.exe files which contain large areas of blanks or zeroes.  That
improvement, however, is due to the compression.


--
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 06:20:59 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 12:20:59 MDT
References: <35pesr$[e-mail]> <35rc73$[e-mail]> <35tbuv$[e-mail]> <35uqqf$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 46
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35uqqf$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John DeGood) writes:
> Ramin Farzaneh ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck) writes:
> : >I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a
> : >new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new
> : >problems now:
> I have an IBM "Blue Lightning" motherboard (75 MHz clock tripled CPU)
> with 16550 UARTs, and Kermit hangs 100% of the time on my system when it
> first accesses the COM ports after a poweron.  I've discovered that if I
> then do a hardware reset to force a reboot from the hung state that
> Kermit runs perfectly until the next time I turn the power off.  If I
> use a Windows terminal emulator the COM ports work fine, even the 1st
> time after poweron.
>
> I'm glad to see these other postings.  I had assumed this was a race
> condition in my motherboard, but it sounds like there may be a race in
> kermit's initialization code instead.
>
> John DeGood  [e-mail]
> Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site (Wilmington, Delaware)
-----------

    For the third or fourth time let me spell this out for you rich
guys with shinny new toys.
    There is a known chip design problem in at least one big square chip,
SMC FDC37C665 UART simulator. That item hangs comms programs if the chip is
not cleared somehow from the mess it creates for itself during system power
on. I don't know if the mistake has occurred in other chips, but it would
not surprize me (cellular designs sold here and there to other foundries).
    Various vendors have been posting notices about fixup programs for
their machines. MS-DOS Kermit v3.14 has its own code to do the fixup too,
and external reports say it works fine.
    Now this does not exclude other motherboard design mistakes which
may mess up things across the bus. There is abundant historical precedent
for them especially when an older design is stretched to new speeds. MSK
3.14 tries very hard to dodge potential goofs of this kind, but the hardware
guys are very sharp and keep inventing new ones. Users of internal modems
should assume that the firmware in their units are equally or more susceptible
to modem design mistakes of varying magnitude.
    MSK 3.13 is more vulnerable to this stuff, simply because it's a
little older and did not have the hardware test base which is now available.
When 3.14 comes out for beta I hope you fellas will pound on it and let me
know what's wrong in as much detail as you can.
    Thanks,
    Joe D.


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 23:45:44 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 23 Sep 1994 23:45:44 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <35vpb8$[e-mail]>
References: <35pesr$[e-mail]> <35rc73$[e-mail]> <35tbuv$[e-mail]> <35uqqf$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.253.232.63
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #6 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:

>In article <35uqqf$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John DeGood) writes:
>> Ramin Farzaneh ([e-mail]) wrote:
[stuff deleted]

>    For the third or fourth time let me spell this out for you rich
>guys with shinny new toys.
[...]
>    Joe D.

Having a bad day Joe?  My name appeared in this post even though none
of the stuff quoted was mine.  Still I don't see why you have to be
so rude.  For the record I am not rich and I don't have a shinny (sic)
toy.  Please control your tone in the future.

Have a nice day,
Ramin


From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 16:00:56 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions
Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:00:56 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 181
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <361ifo$[e-mail]>
References: <35scpt$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35scpt$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jon
Forrest) writes:
> There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup
> recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead
> of Joe and Frank (and others) wasting their time regurgating
> this material, I suggest they simply say "RTFM, document X,
> page Y, section Z".
>
> This approach shouldn't apply to questions in which people say
> "I've read document X, page Y, section Z and I don't understand
> what they mean by ...". People who can't afford to buy the material
> that costs money should also be excused.
>
> There is enough to do without helping people who haven't done
> their homework.
>
Thank you, Jon.  We (Kermit developers) don't mind responding to queries
about new stuff, items that aren't clear from the documentation, etc, but
yes, people who use Kermit software a lot are heartily encouraged to
purchase the documentation because:

 1. It's not that expensive.

 2. It will answer most of your questions -- we put a lot of work into
    it -- hundreds of examples, step-by-step instructions, illustrations,
    tables, appendices, tutorials, glossaries, a comprehensive index.

 3. It relieves the load on the network.

 4. It frees up time of Kermit developers and tech support people to do
    more development and tech support.

 5. Most important of all, income from the sales of Kermit manuals is
    the primary source of income that funds the Kermit effort.

                           KERMIT BOOK LIST

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

MS-DOS Kermit, full-featured communications software for IBM and
compatible PCs with DOS or Windows, is documented in:

    Christine M. Gianone, Using MS-DOS Kermit, Second Edition, Digital
    Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN
    1-55558-082-3.  Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the
    IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette.  In computer
    and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from
    Digital Press.

A German-language edition is also available:

    Christine M. Gianone, MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle
    Kommunikationsprogramm, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany
    (1991), 414 pages.  Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for
    the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette,
    including German- language help files.  Deutsch von Gisbert W.
    Selke.  ISBN 3-88229-006-4.

And a French-language edition:

    Christine M. Gianone, Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi, Deuxieme
    edition, Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages.
    Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2,
    and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette.  Adaption francaise: Jean
    Dutertre.  ISBN 2-901143-20-2.

There is also a Japanese book about MS-DOS Kermit, concentrating on the
NEC PC9801:

    Hirofumi Fujii and Fukuko Yuasa, MS-Kermit Nyumon, Computer Today
    Library 6, Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd., publishers (1993), 160 pages.
    ISBN 4-7819-0669-9 C3355 P1854E.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

C-Kermit 5A, full-function communication software for UNIX, VMS, OS/2,
AOS/VS, OS-9, Apollo Aegis, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST is
documented in:

    Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone, "Using C-Kermit", Digital
    Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1993, 514 pages, ISBN
    1-55558-108-0.  In computer and book stores, or order direct from
    Columbia University or from Digital Press.

A German-language edition is also available:

    Frank da Cruz und Christine M. Gianone, C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und
    Referenz, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1994).  ISBN
    3-88229-023-4.  Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Kermit File transfer protocol is specified in the following book,
which also includes tutorials on computers, file systems, data
communications, and using Kermit:

    Frank da Cruz, Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol, Digital Press /
    Butterworth-Heinemann, Worburn, MA, 1987, 379 pages, ISBN
    0-932376-88-6.  In computer and book stores, or order direct from
    Columbia University or from Digital Press.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Kermit software for more than 400 different computers and operating
systems is available from Columbia University.  Contact Columbia for a
free Kermit software catalog.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

                                 HOW TO ORDER

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

ENGLISH-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS:

   1. In computer and book stores, or order direct from the publisher,
      Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann with MasterCard, Visa, or
      American Express:

          [phone]     (Woburn, MA office for USA & Canada)
          [phone]       (Rushden, England office for Europe)
          [phone]     (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & NZ)
          [phone]        (Singapore office for Asia)

   2. From Columbia University:

          Kermit Development and Distribution
          Columbia University Academic Information Systems
          612 West 115th Street
          New York, NY  10025  USA
          Tel.  [phone]
          Fax.  [phone]
          E-Mail: [e-mail]

      Domestic and overseas orders accepted.  Add $5 US for shipping
      outside of North America.  Orders may be paid by MasterCard or
      Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars.  Add $35 bank fee for
      checks not drawn on a US bank.  Price includes shipping.  Do not
      include sales tax.  Quantity discounts are available.
      Single-copy US prices (in US dollars):

          Using MS-DOS Kermit  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95
          Using C-Kermit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95
          Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol . . . . . . . . . . .$ 29.95
          All three  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 79.95

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

GERMAN-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS:

        MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm: DM 69,00
        C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und Referenz: . . . . . . . . . . DM 90,00

        Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG
        Helstorfer Strasse 7
        D-30625 Hannover, GERMANY
        Tel.  [phone]
        Fax.  [phone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

FRENCH:  Kermit MS-DOS Mode d'Emploi:  . . . . . . . . . . .  FF 495,00

        Heinz Schiefer & Cie.
        45 rue Henri de Regnier
        F-78000 Versailles, FRANCE
        Tel.  [phone]
        Fax.  [phone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

JAPANESE:  MS-Kermit Nyumon: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1,800 Y

        Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd.
        Abe-toku Building
        2-4 Kanda-suda cho, Chiyoda-ku
        Tokyo 101, JAPAN
        Tel.  [phone]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 16:03:52 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: BOO bootstrap
Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:03:52 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 18
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <361il8$[e-mail]>
References: <35uthu$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35uthu$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Maurizio Codogno) writes:
> Yup, it's not a Kermit-related question but I am fairly sure that a lot
> of time ago (6 years?) in the Kermit mailing list someone came out with
> a BOO.COM file which was actually sendable via mail because it contained
> just printable characters. Could you please send me a copy of it?
>
Amazing, but true:
---(cut here)---
XPHPD[0GG0G,0G51G31GB'(G+(G:u'0g?(G>(GE1G@arwIV_F*=US@<1|_,5wXNg-7muTu(4
1m2?352t0osr2e3K1q2s0s3e0W1_F0:sss1@2G0t1k0s3p0@3T1m3>52f3>1k0t3<2C0@3T2
K1g2?0@3T1Fm3U51g3<1q0s3:0@3T1g3r1l0ts1>0I@3T1m3i52e0O2;h0L1_Eg352s0m3S2
j0W1g3of0<1;2?0r1m0s3:1>0m@3T2e0R1FH2E1m0s3:1>0B3^0=2g3=1g3s0@3T2e0@3^1t
2e0<1>0m1m0s361>0e1l0s371g3r1:0P@3T1:0P2e1hDk0s3q0V1F2M1_3_c2o3Z1=0Y1=0c
2s0o2Ag3H0CSCS1:0=F[1:0=2s0]352k0t1]2s0U390^3<1KL2D1Dc0sf1]2L0UE^1T2HfTZ
X3mS2@F5C6G3S2Y\_X3a25BB3W2HacTV^\aZ3S2gb3S2Y\_X3mSW28eebe3S2Whe\aZ3S2Y\
_X3S2<3b2B3W2Abg3S2XabhZ[3S2`X`bel3W4
---(cut)---

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 16:06:13 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Karl Gaissmaier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: HELP: kermit stops upload binary files over two telnet connections
Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:06:13 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Ulm
Lines: 56
Sender: [e-mail] (Karl Gaissmaier)
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <361ipm$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: noc.rz.uni-ulm.de
Keywords: kermit, telnet, download, retransmissions
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

--

Hello kermit wizards,

kermit hangs if i try do upload binary files over two telnet connections:

(kermit) host1 --(telnet)--> host2 -- (telnet) --> host3 (kermit server)

if i try to UPLOAD a BINARY file from host1 to host3, kermit stops with
to much retransmissions. I have no problems with ascii files or
DOWNLOADING binary files.

Any hints?

Please don't ask me, why i didn't direct telnet from host1 to host3,
in my special case it is necessary:

PC --(modem)--terminalserver--(telnet)--gatehost--(telnet)--desthost


i tried to track down the problem with our Sniffer, but i have no
kermit protocol definition and i can't see any strange things in
the sniffer dump. Therefore my next questions:

How can i get the kermit protocol definition?
How can i get the zmodem protocol definition?

thanks in advance for any help
    Charly

PS: by the way, i use the following version on all unix boxes:

C-Kermit>sh version

Versions:

 C-Kermit 5A(189), 30 June 93
 Numeric: 501189
 UNIX Communications support, 5A(110), 26 Jun 93 for 4.2 BSD
 UNIX File support, 5A(074) 11 Jun 93 for 4.2 BSD
 C-Kermit Protocol Module 5A(055), 4 Jun 93
 C-Kermit functions, 5A(089) 11 Jun 93
 Command package 5A(053), 21 Nov 92
 User Interface 5A(103), 26 Jun 93
 Character Set Translation 5A(020), 2 May 93
 CONNECT Command for UNIX, 5A(054) 26 May 93
 Dial Command, 5A(050) 26 Jun 93
 Script Command, 5A(016) 26 Jun 93
 Network support, 5A(019) 8 Jun 93

=========================================================================
Universitaet Ulm                       [e-mail]
Universitaetsrechenzentrum             postmaster, networkadministrator
Karl Gaissmaier                        Telefon: (Germany) +49 731/5022499
D-89069 Ulm                            Telefax: (Germany) +49 731/5022471
=========================================================================

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 16:31:06 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: HELP: kermit stops upload binary files over two telnet connections
Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:31:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 47
Distribution: world
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References: <361ipm$[e-mail]>
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In article <361ipm$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Karl Gaissmaier) writes:
> kermit hangs if i try do upload binary files over two telnet connections:
>
> (kermit) host1 --(telnet)--> host2 -- (telnet) --> host3 (kermit server)
>
> if i try to UPLOAD a BINARY file from host1 to host3, kermit stops with
> to much retransmissions. I have no problems with ascii files or
> DOWNLOADING binary files.
>
The usual one:

  SET PARITY SPACE

and turn off any control-character unprefixing.  Of course, you can unprefix
whatever control characters are safe, but it's always best to start off
without it.  Control characters are prefixed by default for a reason!

> Please don't ask me, why i didn't direct telnet from host1 to host3,
> in my special case it is necessary:
>
> PC --(modem)--terminalserver--(telnet)--gatehost--(telnet)--desthost
>
Here's another idea for you -- it might work better than Telnet, provided
your Telnet servers are 8-bit clean:

Use C-Kermit instead of Telnet on the gatehost, and tell it to:

  SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8
  SET COMMAND BYTESIZE 8
  SET PARITY NONE
  SET FLOW-CONTROL NONE
  CONNECT

Make sure you are using C-Kermit 5A(190) here, because it is WAY more
efficient in this situation (in CONNECT mode between two other hosts that
are transferring files) than earlier releases.

To avoid confusion about which Kermit you are escaping back to, use SET
ESCAPE to set different escape characters on the different Kermit programs.

> [I'm using] C-Kermit 5A(189), 30 June 93
>
C-Kermit 5A(190) Beta is available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu
directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz).

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 17:27:11 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Adam H. Lewenberg)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FILE COLLISION UPDATE and file access times
Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:27:11 GMT
Organization: Math Dept., University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
Lines: 41
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I think I have figured it out.

I was still having troubles with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE
setting. Files that were clearly newer on my home machine than the
files on the destination machine were being refused because of the
date. As I discovered, although the files on the destination machine
had an older last-wrote date, they had a newer last accessed-date. So,
for whatever reason, kermit is refusing to overwrite any file that has
a more recent last-accessed date.

This can't be what people want.



Here are the details:

home computer:
   C-Kermit 5A(190) BETA.23, 18 Sep 94, for OS/2 2.11 32-bit  Numeric:
   501190  with a FAT file system

   DIR ANN3.TEX:
         ANN3.TEX         1332   9-24-94  12:17

destination computer:
   C-Kermit 5A(188), 23 Nov 92, SunOS 4.1 (BSD)

   ls -l ann3.tex:

        -rw-------   1 adam     academic     1293 Sep 24 12:15 ann3.tex

   ls -lu ann3.tex:

        -rw-------   1 adam     academic     1293 Sep 24 12:23 ann3.tex



                     Adam H. Lewenberg [e-mail]
--
University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, Dept. Of Mathematics
INTERNET: [e-mail]   or    [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 17:32:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Microcom AX/9624c mnp class 6 dialing script?
Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:32:14 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 27
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In article <35top1$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
writes:
> The subject says it all. Anyone have a dialing script for this neast?
>
None to my knowledge.

I posted a long message about MS-DOS Kermit dialing scripts yesterday.

They all follow a basic template.  Writing a dialing script for a new
kind of modem is fairly simple -- you pick a dialing script for a similar
kind of modem, sit down with your modem manual, and replace the modem-
specific commands for setting modulation, flow control, error correction,
compression, etc, with the ones for your modem.

MS-DOS Kermit dialing scripts are plain-text files, profusely commented.
They should be very easy to deal with by anybody who knows how to read
a modem manual and use a text editor.

Numerous working scripts are available via anonymous ftp to
kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/a, text mode, files msm*.*.

Anybody who adapts any of these scripts to a hitherto unsupported modem
is encouraged to send their work back to Columbia (via email to
[e-mail]) to be included in the collection, so that others
may use it too.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 17:36:43 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS / VMS Transfer Performance
Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:36:43 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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I thought I would repost this oldie-but-goodie...

In article <s5$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Gregory Perron) writes:
>
> I'm downloading from a vax 4000-90 thru a terminal server of some sort
> to my PC.  14.4's at both ends: I have a cardinal internal; they have
> us robotics.  I get messages of 14.4, lapm, v.42bis, etc.  But,
> downloads have been hideous.
>
> I've given up on sz, because of too many aborted transfers.  I
> *think* the problem is w/ the vax, but I'm not sure.  [I get flawless
> 1600-1650 cps dl's on zipped files from a local bbs] Yes, I tried all
> the -ebrw permutations I could think of.
>
> On to kermit: I use procomm plus/dos 2.01 on my PC.  On the vax,
> ckermit pops up and says:
> Ckermit 5a(188) 23 NOV 92, OpenVMS Vax.
>
You'll get better results with C-Kermit 5A(189) or later, which has two
new features described below.  C-Kermit 5A(189) is available via
anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/b, get the file
ckvaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there.

> My ckermit.ini file has:
> set send pack 1000
>
This command is not needed; see the documentation.

> set receive pack 1000
> set buff 20000 20000
> set file type bin
> set windows 10
> set block 3
>
> Symptoms: max dl cps has been around 1100 for a zipped/jpg/gif file.
> And that's unusual: 950-1050 is more normal. It's almost like I'm
> only at 9600, modem report aside.
>
I can't speak for Procomm, but I ran some tests using MS-DOS Kermit 3.13
(the current version) on a 486/66 over a V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis dialup
connection to a Cisco terminal server, and from there to a VAXstation
3100 running VMS 5.x and C-Kermit 5A. The calling modem is a Telebit
T3000, the answering modem is a USR Courier.

MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu,
directory kermit/bin, binary mode, file msvibm.zip.

In these tests, I downloaded a 330K ZIP file (MSVIBM.ZIP -- the MS-DOS
Kermit 3.13 distribution).  My serial interface speed was 57600 bps, and
I used RTS/CTS flow control between my PC and the modem, and RTS/CTS was
also active between the answering modem and the terminal server.

In the first test (10 window slots x 1000-byte packets, same settings as
yours), I achieved an effective throughput of 1091 cps, like you got.

Since the connection between the terminal server and VMS is via TCP/IP
TELNET, and we know that TCP and IP will handle the flow control between
the VAX and the terminal server, I told C-Kermit to SET FLOW NONE (its
default setting is XON/XOFF) and ran the test again: 1136 cps.

Now that we've got the basics taken care of, we can work on tuning.
Next I tell C-Kermit to:

  SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL
  SET CONTROL PREFIX 1 129 255

(version 5A(189) or later is required for this; see the CKCKER.UPD file
for explanation) -- This removes control-character prefixing overhead
for all but 3 characters (4 really: NUL, Ctrl-A, Ctrl-A plus parity, and
the TELNET IAC character).  Now I get 1549 cps.  Note: control-character
unprefixing is of benefit primarily for precompressed files, secondarily
for uncompressed binaries, and has very little effect at all on text
files.

Well, the PC I was using is one of the new "high-speed, low-cost"
models, and so lacks a buffered UART.  All of the above transfers
suffered various amounts of retransmissions due to UART buffer overruns.
Switching to a much slower PC (a PS/2-70, 15MHz I think) that has a
16550A buffered UART, same transfer, same parameters, the throughput
goes up to 1601 cps.

Now, since I don't have to worry about buffer overruns any more, I
increase Kermit's packet length to 5000 (SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH
5000).  Throughput: 1608 cps.

And now, since this is a precompressed file, I note that neither
Kermit's run-length compression, nor the modem's V.42bis compression
will do any good -- and some would say that they slow things down
a lot.  Let's see.  I turn both off:

  Kermit: SET REPEAT COUNTS OFF (C-Kermit 5A(189) or later required).
  Modem:  ATS190=0 (Telebit T3000)

and download the file again.  Result: 1616 cps.  Not a big difference.

Lessons (most of which apply mainly to this particular type of connection):

 1. Buffered UARTs are better than nonbuffered UARTs.
 2. Be sure to get the flow control right at both ends.
 3. Use long packets (1K - 5K, whatever works) and sliding windows
    (4 or more).
 4. Once you've got all that working optimally, you can squeeze out
    another 20-30% efficiency with control-character unprefixing.
 5. After that, don't bother too much with fine tuning, particularly
    with disabling modem or software compression - it makes very little
    difference.

Please, before we have another flurry of postings from people asking
for the "optimal" list of control characters to be unprefixed, THERE IS
NONE.  Every connection is different, with its own unique characteristics.
Read the documentation.  Ditto for all the other variables we have looked
at here: window size, packet length, flow control, etc.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 17:41:11 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FILE COLLISION UPDATE and file access times
Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:41:11 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 30
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <361obn$[e-mail]>
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In article <361nhf$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Adam H. Lewenberg) writes:
> I was still having troubles with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE
> setting. Files that were clearly newer on my home machine than the
> files on the destination machine were being refused because of the
> date. As I discovered, although the files on the destination machine
> had an older last-wrote date, they had a newer last accessed-date. So,
> for whatever reason, kermit is refusing to overwrite any file that has
> a more recent last-accessed date.
> ...
> destination computer:
>    C-Kermit 5A(188), 23 Nov 92, SunOS 4.1 (BSD)
>
Quite correct.  This was a bug in C-Kermit 5A(188), and it was fixed in
5A(189).  If you replace the Kermit version on your Sun by the current
released version, 5A(189), or the soon-to-be-formally-released 5A(190),
which is in the final stages of Beta testing, the problem should (will)
go away.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x's for my news poster, sorry.

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 18:06:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Chatting with Mac Kermit
Date: 24 Sep 1994 18:06:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 40
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> Hi, I am using Kermit on a MacPowerbook 160 with 10megs of ram and a
> Powerport Silver internal modem. I would like to set up a direct link to
> a friend of mine who has a Mac Plus with currently 1meg (plans to
> upgrade to 4) and an external Hayes modem. When I am saying direct link,
> I mean that I like to be able to type something on my screen that would
> then appear on his screen and vice-versa. His wife is deaf and he would
> like to be able to communicate with her long-distance. Can Kermit do
> this?
>
Yes.  One modem must be put in "answer mode", which is not the normal mode
for modems to be in.  This is generally done by giving it a command like:

  ATS0=2

(see your modem manual).  The steps on the answering end would be:

 1. Start Kermit on the Mac.
 2. In Communications Settings, set the appropriate speed.
 3. Type "ats0=2" (and Return) at the modem, in the terminal screen.
 4. In the Terminal Settings screen, set "Auto LF with CR" and "Local Echo"
 5. Wait for a call to come in.

This must be done before a call is placed.

On the calling end:

 1. Start Kermit on the Mac.
 2. In Communications Settings, set the appropriate speed.
 3. Type "atdt" and the phone number, and Return, in the terminal screen.
 4. In the Terminal settings screen, set "Auto LF with CR" and "Local Echo"
 5. Wait for call to be answered.

Now the two parties can chat.  When it's time to hang up, they should:

 1. Do nothing for at least one second.
 2. Type +++ in the terminal screen.
 3. Do nothing for at least one second.
 5. Type ATH0 and then Return, in the terminal screen, to hang up the phone.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 18:32:38 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Scripted Telnet wanted
Date: 24 Sep 1994 18:32:38 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 42
Distribution: World
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References: <[e-mail]>
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Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.sys.sun.apps:9932 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:147
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Paul Newman) writes:
> Hi, I'm looking for a program that let's me do some programmatic telnet.
> That is, I'm looking for something like CrossTalk or Procomm (on PCs)
> except that I want it to use telnet for transport.  I want to send a
> command and look at the response programmatically, maybe with a shell
> like language, and then send another command based on the response.
>
C-Kermit 5A.  Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu.  The current version
is 5A(189):

  kermit/bin/cku189.tar.Z

Version 5A(190) is in Beta test; I'd encourage you to try it instead:

  kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz for gunzip)

It has a full-blown script programming language that does exactly what
you want, and also includes control structures (IF, WHILE, etc), variables,
arrays, built-in functions for string manipulation, access to all kinds
of system information (hostname, date, time, etc etc), and so on.

Since C-Kermit works not only on TCP/IP TELNET connections, but also
serial connections and (in certain implementations) also X.25, DECnet,
NETBIOS, and other types of connections, you have a single communication
software package that lets you automate all of your communications tasks
in a consistent way.

Furthermore, the script programs you write for C-Kermit on SunOS are
portable to any other UNIX variety as well as to all the other operating
systems where C-Kermit runs: VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, etc etc.

Furthermore, C-Kermit's script programming language is highly (though
not totally) compatible with MS-DOS Kermit's language, and so the same
script programs are also portable to DOS and Windows and to the many
and varied networking methods supported by MS-DOS Kermit.

C-Kermit's script programming language is fully documented in Chapters
11-13 of "Using C-Kermit".  MS-DOS Kermit's script programming language is
fully documented in Chapter 14 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit".

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 12:55:58 1994
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From: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: what is UART overrun
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 16:55:58 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/University Computer Center
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Im getting this error message when I try to download from a mainframe to my ibm
 at home.

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 23:52:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: When not "set file type binary" always?
Date: 24 Sep 1994 23:52:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Arizona, Dept. of ECE
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Why not always do "set file type binary"?
Is there any reason to use text mode?
Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files.
(I have the same question regarding ftp.)
Why is there a text mode at all?

--
Jeff Rodriguez

Electrical & Computer Engineering       [e-mail]
The University of Arizona               Tel: [phone] or 8963
Tucson, AZ 85721                        FAX: [phone]

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 12:38:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: what is UART overrun
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 94 18:38:34 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 10
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In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes:
> Im getting this error message when I try to download from a mainframe to my ibm
>  at home.
---------
    What program is showing you that message? MS-DOS Kermit does not
display it.
    It means a second byte arrived at the serial port from the outside
before the first byte could be read from the hardware. Flow control is
the solution.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sat Sep 24 14:50:42 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Sep 94 20:50:42 MDT
References: <362e3r$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <362e3r$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes:
> Why not always do "set file type binary"?
> Is there any reason to use text mode?
> Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files.
> (I have the same question regarding ftp.)
> Why is there a text mode at all?
>
> --
> Jeff Rodriguez
>
> Electrical & Computer Engineering       [e-mail]
> The University of Arizona               Tel: [phone] or 8963
> Tucson, AZ 85721                        FAX: [phone]
-----------
    Simple example: DOS ends lines in CR/LF, Unix ends text lines in LF,
Macs end lines in CR, and so on.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 04:24:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions
Date: 24 Sep 1994 21:24:52 -0700
Lines: 47
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <362u2k$[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>In article <35scpt$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jon
>Forrest) writes:
>> There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup
>> recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead
>>
>Thank you, Jon.  We (Kermit developers) don't mind responding to queries
>about new stuff, items that aren't clear from the documentation, etc, but
>yes, people who use Kermit software a lot are heartily encouraged to
>purchase the documentation because:

(deleted a number of good reasons)

I like to attest to the validity of this point. While I like free software
partly because the price is right, I often feel a strong urge to buy
the accompanying books. In fact, I don't think those books are that
cheap, but spending, say, 70 dollars on the two main Kermit books is still
very cheap compared to paying for a single user license of any other
major software package. Look what you get if you buy two Kermit books:

Two nicely bound manuals that are very readable. They not only describe
the program, but also contain elaborate introductions to telecommunications
and data transmission, as well as to the inner workings of the
software.

This is typical for free software. Look at the books describing the
free TeX text formatter program. They even contain jokes, poems etc.
The books accompanying the free OS and programming language Oberon
are also much more readable than those of, say, Borland or Symantec
(no experience with Microsoft compilers). There is probably no editor
with a more rigorous manual than emacs.

Compare this with what you get for a couple hundred dollars spent at
such companies as Microsoft: totally boring manuals that often fail to
solve the actual problems that someone might have using the programs.
Plus diskettes with the software that you are not allowed to copy at will.

My motto: use free software unless you are sure the more expensive one
is better, and spend a small part of the money thus saved on those fine
books. Then, give away copies of the free software to whoever wants it,
and show those books so that they know they exist.

That's enough advertising for now, I guess.

--Roland
email: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 12:49:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (tom mayo)
Subject: Re: Kermit under Telix terminal program
Message-Id: <35uirt$[e-mail]>
Lines: 43
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:49:01 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andrew Veglio) writes:
>>   I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol
>> as implemented under Telix V3.15.  This program works well with my system
>> using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it
>> does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work.
>>   I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1
>> Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out
>> without transfering anything.
>>   All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit
>> is the only protocal supported on the Unix server.
>>
>> Many Thanks
>> Andrew
>------------
>    Have to guess again. Here goes...
>    Might you have set Even parity just in the modem without telling
>Telix Kermit about it? If so there is a good chance that Telix and the
>remote Kermit negotiate an 8-bit connection and of course your modem chops
>the high bit without informing anyone. If this were true then it would be
>a classical case of "hidden comms boxes" nibbling at the data.
>    MS-DOS Kermit and C Kermit both try to unravel these cases as much
>as possible and may switch to using Even parity during the first packet
>exchange. It's clever. MSK expects the modem to stay out of the useless
>parity game and let Kermit do parity work in software (where there is
>full control and most importantly full knowledge to negotiate the proper
>bit-width during file transfers).
>    My suggestions are to look into these details, tell Telix about
>Even parity, and if things still don't work then also try MS-DOS Kermit
>(it's faster and ...).
>    Joe D.

I have had similar trouble.  I am not fully satisfied that I explored
all avenues, but I did call the Telix support number and from what I
remember, they said that Telix does not support Kermit transfers over
7-bit connections.

I have since switched to MS-DOS Kermit, and have been VERY happy with
it.  It is somewhat of a pain to get running at first, but it is at
least flexible and well-documented.

-Tom

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 06:33:57 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Nico Garcia)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always?
Date: 25 Sep 1994 06:33:57 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <362e3r$[e-mail]>
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 24 Sep 1994 23:52:27 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <362e3r$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes:

   Why not always do "set file type binary"?
   Is there any reason to use text mode?
   Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files.
   (I have the same question regarding ftp.)
   Why is there a text mode at all?

That is an *excellent* question. The answer, for UNIX sys-admins like
me, is that when downloading lengthy text bug-patches and specifically
in downloading .bin files from certain Mac sites, they get corrupted
when downloaded in binary mode where they come over file where they
are fine in test mode.

This is the voice of embarassed experience.

                Nico Garcia
                [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 05:55:35 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Wtd: "Kermit, a file transfer protocol"
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 05:55:35 GMT
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Hi,
Looking for a copy of fdc's book "Kermit, a file transfer protocol"
If anybody has a copy they are not using anymore, drop me a line,

Thanks

blake

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 16:21:02 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Philip Wirtz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit via tn3270
Date: 25 Sep 1994 12:21:02 -0400
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I use MSDOS Kermit on a PC-compatible machine to emulate a VT100 when
connecting (over a modem) to a Sun running Solaris.  I can upload,
download, and "transparent print" without problem.  When logged on to the
Sun, I use tn3270 to connect to an IBM mainframe running VM/CMS.  As an
alternative route to the IBM mainframe, I can use MSDOS Kermit to dial up
through a 7171 protocol emulator.  I have no problem using Kermit to
upload, download, or transparent print when I use the ALTERNATIVE route to
the IBM mainframe (i.e., dialing up through the 7171).  However, when
using the tn3270 route (which of course bypasses the 7171), I cannot
upload, download or transparent print.  Speculatively, it appears that
escape sequences are not being properly passed to the Sun (and therefore
to my PC), so (for example) the PC Kermit does not know that it needs to
pass subsequent characters through to the printer.  Does anyone have a
suggestion about how I can remediate this problem (...or, if this is the
incorrect forum for such a question, where it might be properly
raised...)?  Thanks.


From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 18:01:41 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: HELP: kermit stops upload binary files over two telnet connections
Date: 25 Sep 1994 18:01:41 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 30
Message-Id: <364du5$[e-mail]>
References: <361ipm$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Keywords: kermit, telnet, download, retransmissions
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <361ipm$[e-mail]>,
Karl Gaissmaier <[e-mail]> wrote:
>--
>
>Hello kermit wizards,
>
>kermit hangs if i try do upload binary files over two telnet connections:
>
>(kermit) host1 --(telnet)--> host2 -- (telnet) --> host3 (kermit server)
>
>if i try to UPLOAD a BINARY file from host1 to host3, kermit stops with
>to much retransmissions. I have no problems with ascii files or
>DOWNLOADING binary files.
>
>Any hints?


Try using small packets and no sliding windows.  If that works, then it is
a flow control problem somewhere between host1 and host3.

If it doesn't work, see where you are after the timeout errors.  Are you
still logged into host3, or are you on host2?  Make sure that all control
characters with special meanings are prefixed.

What version of Kermit are you using on the PC?

Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 18:15:21 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit hangs on newer machines - what is loaded high?
Date: 25 Sep 1994 18:15:21 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <364enp$[e-mail]>
References: <35pesr$[e-mail]> <35rc73$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <35u9p2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]



For those of you who have benn reporting problems with MS-DOS Kermit on
newer machines, I have one important question:

What software do you have loaded high and what version of DOS are you using?

I have noticed significant problems with MS-DOS and IBM PC-DOS versions
6.x which loading EMM386.EXE.  And then loading programs which affect timers
into high memory.  Example programs include MOUSE.COM and SMARTDRV.EXE.

The problems affect Token ring drivers, and serial devices which rely on
timers and interrupt driven I/O.

I believe the problems are causes by the need to switch from Real mode to
protected mode in order to access the high memory safely.

For a simple test, boot off of a DOS diskette without EMM386 being loaded
and try out MS-DOS Kermit.  And then report back the results, it would not
surprise me if MS-DOS Kermit works fine under these conditions.

But until we discover the cause, there is not much that Joe can do the
replicate it since he doesn't have access to the necessary hardware.

Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 19:26:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Marc Spitzer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: where to get kermit and how to useit it?
Date: 25 Sep 1994 15:26:16 -0400
Organization: Cosmic Communications, Long Island, NY
Lines: 9
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Hello,

Where is kermit and how do you use it?  Pointers to ascii docs that i can
ftp are what i would realy like.

System 286 with 640 k herc moniter and st225 hd.

Thanks marc

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 21:28:29 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Douglas Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: a nice kermit icon?
Date: 25 Sep 1994 16:28:29 -0500
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 13
Message-Id: <364q1t$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com
Summary: where can I find one?
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I am looking for a nice Windows-format icon to use with Kermit.  I've looked
around and found only one (which I didn't like).  Don't you all agree that
the kermit distribution should have an "official" kermit icon?

This is partially in fun, but who <does> have a nice kermit icon?

Doug
--
[e-mail]





From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 23:06:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 25 Sep 1994 23:06:05 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Lines: 45
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[e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:

>> Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port.
>> What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand
>> so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area?
>> Richard.
>---------
>    Kermit's handling of the 16550A chip is fine, has been ever since
>the chips came out. But... motherboards and peripherals differ considerably,
>and the single word "fail" is too general for me to do much with.
>    Please note that Kermit actually safely tests your hardware before
>using it, contrary to the "shoot first, ask questions later" technique of many
>comms programs. If the test fails then the odds are in favor of something
>being peculiar in your machine.

Yeah right, I have seen this answer before, but Linux and Terminate
have zero, zilch, nada problems dealing with the hardware while Kermit
does have problems dealing with the chips. Maybe, just maybe I should
have said 'my chips' there, since you seem to think Kermit works flawless
with real 16550A's.
Other postings have proved otherwise, however.

>    I ask people to review the extensive material in text file MSKERM.BWR
>and open the covers of their machine to ensure things are the way one thinks
>they might be (check those jumpers). Watch out for TSRs hitting the ports,
>mouse drivers and fax programs included. While I enjoy tinkering with hardware
>as much as the next person my crystal ball has a finite range; hence, I can't
>diagnose the machine by remote control. That has to be your concern.

Sure, but the same (SAME as in equal) setup is OK with Terminate and Linux.
I don't need a crystal ball to tell me that apparently Kermit has a tinsy
little problem and not those other programs.
I have removed all TSR's and such, thank you, I am not a complete newbee.

>        As in all complex situations the path to solutions is simplify
>and isolate carefully. Divide and conquer (except when divide overflows).
>Ask a friend to be a cross examiner during the process, and don't forget those
>sacrifical chickens.

I have found the problem a while ago: MS-Kermit. Sorry, but that is just the
way it is.



Richard.

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 00:50:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Problems with Kermit and Windows for Workgroups
Date: 26 Sep 1994 00:50:01 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
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    I am using kermit with windows for workgroups.  I seem to get
alot of retry errors when I download files while running under windows,
but when I run kermit straight out of dos I hardly get any.  I prefer to
work under windows so I can work on other programs while downloading..is
there any way I can set some options either in the emm386 area for
windows or does kermit require special comm drivers to communicate with
windows? My connection runs at 19200 and consists of a basic null modem
serial link with Iowa States Prject Vincent.
    Any help as always is greatly appreciated!
email please!











--
Timothy J Flynn
([e-mail])
Fine Arts &
Computer Science
Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008    phone [phone]

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 12:59:40 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 94 18:59:40 MDT
References: <35pesr$[e-mail]>  <364vot$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 32
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <364vot$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman) writes:
> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>
>>> Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port.
>>> What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand
>>> so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area?
>>> Richard.
>>---------
>>    Kermit's handling of the 16550A chip is fine, has been ever since
>>the chips came out. But... motherboards and peripherals differ considerably,
>>and the single word "fail" is too general for me to do much with.
>>    Please note that Kermit actually safely tests your hardware before
>>using it, contrary to the "shoot first, ask questions later" technique of many
>>comms programs. If the test fails then the odds are in favor of something
>>being peculiar in your machine.
>
> Yeah right, I have seen this answer before, but Linux and Terminate
> have zero, zilch, nada problems dealing with the hardware while Kermit
> does have problems dealing with the chips. Maybe, just maybe I should
> have said 'my chips' there, since you seem to think Kermit works flawless
> with real 16550A's.
> Other postings have proved otherwise, however.
    Not to argue about it but they haven't shown that. May I refresh
the minds of the readership on the "emulated 16550A" chip problem: it is
a chip problem and the cure seems to be to hit the chip with a 2x4. Some
software may think that's a good thing to do and fooey on the rest of
the world; Kermit does not. In any case, as I said previously, MSK 3.14
has code to workaround this chip problem. The release MSKs for many years
have worked perfectly with real 16550As, at my place and from no reports
of troubles with the real chips.
    Joe D.


From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 13:58:28 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Problems with Kermit and Windows for Workgroups
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 94 19:58:28 MDT
References: <3655rp$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 34
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3655rp$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn) writes:
>
>     I am using kermit with windows for workgroups.  I seem to get
> alot of retry errors when I download files while running under windows,
> but when I run kermit straight out of dos I hardly get any.  I prefer to
> work under windows so I can work on other programs while downloading..is
> there any way I can set some options either in the emm386 area for
> windows or does kermit require special comm drivers to communicate with
> windows? My connection runs at 19200 and consists of a basic null modem
> serial link with Iowa States Prject Vincent.
>     Any help as always is greatly appreciated!
> email please!
------------
    A very common complaint with all serial port comms programs under
Windows; you have company.
    It's Windows. If you scan the PC News groups notice how many msgs
there are on this topic. The cures fall into two main categories: if you
continue to run at 19,200 or higher then by all means acquire a buffered
UART (the 16550A flavor), and look for a better Windows serial port driver
than that shipped with Windows. Of course slowing down is also a solution.
    Windows grabs the real serial port and simulates it to DOS box
programs, so the fault is between Windows and its hardware. You can try
to give the DOS box greater cpu resources by fiddling with the program
parameters in Windows but much of this has to be done locally to match
the particular setup on the machine.
    Two replacment items I have come across are the Delrina Windows
Fax com item, wfxcom.zip (copy on netlab2.usu.edu, cd apps), and a decent
buffered UART serial board. I'm using a Hayes ESP board this week which
looks like a 16550A to programs and which has its own Windows driver.
There are many other drivers and boards available so you may wish to
ask around in the Windows News groups for shared experiences.
    Try to use hardware flow control (RTS/CTS) if your cable has
enough wires. It's faster acting than XON/XOFF.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 25 14:05:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: a nice kermit icon?SKIP/NEWSGROUP
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Sep 94 20:05:33 MDT
References: <364q1t$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 38
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <364q1t$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Douglas Harvey) writes:
> I am looking for a nice Windows-format icon to use with Kermit.  I've looked
> around and found only one (which I didn't like).  Don't you all agree that
> the kermit distribution should have an "official" kermit icon?
>
> This is partially in fun, but who <does> have a nice kermit icon?
------------
    I make one for the MSK 3.14 release. However, folks may have
a grain of artistic sense and discard my feeble attempt. Here is my
attempt, and please don't snicker to my face...
    Joe D.
-------------
section 1 of uuencode 4.13 of file KERMIT.ICO    by R.E.M.

begin 644 KERMIT.ICO
M```!``$`("`0``````#H`@``%@```"@````@````0`````$`!```````@`(`.
M``````````````````````````````"```"`````@(``@````(``@`"`@```6
M@("``,#`P````/\``/\```#__P#_````_P#_`/__``#___\`____________@
M____________________________________________________________$
M______________F9F9F9F9_____________Y\/#P\/"0```````/____^0\/9
M#P\/G_______`/____GP\/#P\)________`/___YF9F9F9F?________#___Z
M___Y_Y__________\`____^9F9F9F?_______P#____Y______^?______`/W
M____^?______G_____\`______GW=W=W_Y______#______Y______^?____L
M``#_____^?=W=W?_G____P``______G______Y____S,S,_____Y]W=W=_^?W
M__S,XN[LS___^?______G__,[B(N[LS___^9F9F9F?_\SN(B(N[NS/______G
M____S.[B(B+N[NS/_________\[NXB(B[N[NSP________S.[NXB+N[N[L_PQ
M_______\[N[N+NXN[N[L_P\`_____.[NXB+B[N[N[/_P#P____SN[B(B(N[N;
M[NS__P_P\`__SNXB(B+N[N[/_____P#P_\SN(B(B+N[LS______P_P_\XB(B]
M(N[N[/_________P_,XB(B(N[,S__________P_\[N[N[LS____________P`
M_\S,S,S/__\`````````````````````````````````````````````````U
M`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
!`````
``
end
sum -r/size 57357/1106 section (from "begin" to "end")
sum -r/size 40329/766 entire input file


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 02:52:34 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kermit can't access modem under Windows
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Hello.  I'm hoping that someone will indulge my ignorance and help
with what might be a common problem.  Kermit works fine in DOS on
my 386 with a USRobotics Sportster modem on Com 4, IRQ 5.  In windows
it seems that Kermit can't access the modem.  After trying the computer
hangs.  Cntl Alt. Del. sometimes quits Kermit and sometimes not, which
seems to be connected to whether the mouse is moving (mouse is on Com1,
IRQ 4).  I use other windows communications programs without problem,
except that they don't include full implementations of Kermit, and
the protocols they do include often don't work, which is why I want
to run Kermit.  I *think* I've tried just about everything.  The modem
is a 14,400 model, and I'm fairly sure I've got all the Kermit settings
right, including, of course, the Com and Interrupt settings -- as I
said, works fine in DOS.  Help!

Thanks!  (BTW this is the latest Kermit MS-DOS 3.13)

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 06:43:43 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ami Bar-Yadin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: non-erasable characters in VT220 emulation
Date: 26 Sep 1994 02:43:43 -0400
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
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The DEC VT220 has some command sequences that deal with
non-erasable characters.  I think Kermit's emulation of a VT220
does not handle these properly.

Is Kermit suppose to support these command sequences?

If not, are there any plans to add this support in the future?


From the DEC VT220 pocket reference guide:

Select Char Attributes (DECSCA):  Applies to subsequent characters
   CSI Ps " q
   where Ps is
        0: All attributes off (does not apply to Graphic Rendition)
        1: designate chars as "not erasable" by DECSEL/DECSED
        2: designate chars as "erasable" by DECSEL/DECSED

Selective Erase in Line (DECSEL):
   CSI ? Ps K
   where Ps is
     null:  Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOL
        0:  Same as null
        1:  Erase all "erasable" chars from BOL to cursor
        2:  Erase all "erasable" chars on the line

Selective Erase in Display (DECSED):
   CSI ? Ps J
   where Ps is
     null:  Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOS
        0:  same as null
        1:  Erase all "erasable" chars from BOS to cursor
        2:  Erase all "erasable" chars on the screen
--
Ami Bar-Yadin ([e-mail])

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 13:00:17 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: non-erasable characters in VT220 emulation
Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:00:17 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ami Bar-Yadin)
writes:
> The DEC VT220 has some command sequences that deal with
> non-erasable characters.  I think Kermit's emulation of a VT220
> does not handle these properly.
> Is Kermit suppose to support these command sequences?
>
Support for "protected fields" has been added to version 3.14, which
will be announced for testing shortly.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 13:04:26 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Wtd: "Kermit, a file transfer protocol"
Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:04:26 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:
> Looking for a copy of fdc's book "Kermit, a file transfer protocol"
> If anybody has a copy they are not using anymore, drop me a line,
>
It's still in print, believe it or not.  Although the types of
computers it talks about have mostly faded into history (DEC-20s, etc),
the specification of the Kermit protocol is still the definitive one.
If you can't find it at your local computer bookstore, you can call
[phone] or [phone] to order it.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 13:28:36 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always?
Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:28:36 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <362e3r$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes:
> Why not always do "set file type binary"?
> Is there any reason to use text mode?
> Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files.
> (I have the same question regarding ftp.)
> Why is there a text mode at all?
>
Three reasons:

(1) Record format: As most people know, different file systems represent
lines of plain text in different ways:

 . A stream of characters terminated by CRLF (e.g. DOS)
 . A stream of characters terminated by LF (e.g. UNIX)
 . A stream of characters terminated by CR (e.g. Mac or OS-9)
 . A LF followed by a stream of charcters followed by CR (VMS)
 . A count word followed by a stream of characters (mainframes)
 . A fixed-length field with trailing blanks or NULs (mainframes)
 . etc etc etc

If you transfer a text file from one type of system to another, the
presumption is that you want it to be in useful format when it arrives.
For example, if you transferred a Macintosh text file to, say, a UNIX or
VMS system without conversion, you would probably wind up with all the
lines overstriking each other.  If you transferred C program source from
DOS to UNIX in binary mode, you couldn't compile it.  If you transferred
UNIX text to DOS in binary mode, it would print in "stairstep" fashion.
And so on.

(2) File Format.  Different file systems have different ways of
representing the end of a file:

 . An exact byte count (e.g. UNIX)
 . An approximately byte count (e.g. Prime)
 . A block count
 . A record count
 . An internal in-band marker, like Ctrl-Z
 . etc etc

When you transfer text files in binary mode, and the end of file is not
represented in an exact fashion, you are likely to get junk at the end
of the transferred file.

(3) Character set.  I realize Americans could not care less about this
issue, but there are places in the world where people speak other
languages than English, in which accented and/or non-Roman letters or
other glyphs are needed, and want to be able to use them when writing
text on their computers.  Unfortunately, each computer and OS is likely
to use completely different encodings for the same characters.
Binary-mode transfers would skip any needed conversions whereas
text-mode transfers -- at least when done by Kermit -- will take care of
them.

Bottom line: Use text mode when transferring plain text and you want it
to arrive on the destination system in useful format.  Use binary mode
when you don't want any conversions to be done.  You can also use binary
mode when transferring text between two computers that have the same
kind of file system -- record format, file format, and character set.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 12:56:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Leila Burrell-Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: a nice kermit icon?SKIP/NEWSGROUP
Date: 26 Sep 1994 12:56:30 GMT
Organization: Computing Service, University of Sussex, UK
Lines: 48
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References: <364q1t$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:
% In article <364q1t$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Douglas Harvey) writes:
% > I am looking for a nice Windows-format icon to use with Kermit.  I've looked
% > around and found only one (which I didn't like).  Don't you all agree that
% > the kermit distribution should have an "official" kermit icon?
% >
% > This is partially in fun, but who <does> have a nice kermit icon?
% ------------
%     I make one for the MSK 3.14 release. However, folks may have
% a grain of artistic sense and discard my feeble attempt. Here is my
% attempt, and please don't snicker to my face...
%     Joe D.
% -------------

Designing icons is clearly an art :-). Here's the one we use here.
Feel free to snicker or to use it.

Leila
--
table
 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?
@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
begin 644 kermit.ico
M   !  $ (" 0      #H @  %@   "@    @    0     $ !       @ ( z
M                              "   "     @(  @    (  @ " @   y
M@("  ,# P    /\  /\   #__P#_    _P#_ /__  #___\ ____/______Px
M,S,S,S,S,___________\#,S,S,S,S/___/_____]5 S,S,S,S,S________w
M]5 #,S,S,S,S,_____55554P,S,S,S,S,S/__S9:JJJJH#,S,S,S,S,S__55v
M6J.JJJ S,S,S,S,S,_\%JJJJJJJ@ S,S,S,S,S-0"JJJJJJJJ@,S,S,S,S,Su
MX JJJJJJJJJJ#N[N[N[N[NX*JJJJJJJJJ@#N[N[N[N[N"JJJJJJJJJJJH   t
M#N[N[@JJJJJJJJJJJJ  "@  [NX*JJJJJJJJH   JJ *H [N"JJJJJJJH "Js
MJJJJJJH.[@JJJJJJJJ"JJJJJJJJJ#NX*JJJJJJ *JJJJJJJJH [NX*JJJJJ@r
MJJJJJJJJJJ#N[N"JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJH.[N[@JJJJJJJJJJJJJJH #N[NX JJq
MH "JJJJJJJJ@#N[N[NX H _P  JJJJJJH.[N[N[NX*#___\ JJJJH [N[N[Np
M[NX __  \*JJH [N[N[N[N[NX/\  /"J   .[N[N[N[N[N#_  \   \/#N[No
M[N[N[N[N#___#N#P#P[N[N[N[N[N[@#_\ [@#_ .[N[N[N[N[N[N  [N[@  n
M[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[Nm
M[N[N[N[N[NX                                                 l
M                                                            k
M                                                            j
!    i
 h
end
--
Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK
Tel:  [phone]            Fax:  [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
PGP Public Key fingerprint: 18 A3 45 D6 40 6D 62 00  E9 71 AD 18 E8 E2 9F 7D

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 01:47:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit can't access modem under Windows
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 94 07:47:46 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 14
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Hello.  I'm hoping that someone will indulge my ignorance and help
> with what might be a common problem.  Kermit works fine in DOS on
> my 386 with a USRobotics Sportster modem on Com 4, IRQ 5.  In windows
> it seems that Kermit can't access the modem.  After trying the computer
> hangs.  Cntl Alt. Del. sometimes quits Kermit and sometimes not, which
> seems to be connected to whether the mouse is moving (mouse is on Com1,
> IRQ 4).

    Did you tell Kermit about the port and IRQ for COM4 via the
Kermit command SET COM4 port irq? The reason you have to for this port
and for IRQ not 4 or 3 is there is no way to acquire that information
from the hardware.
    Joe D.

EL):
>    CSI ? Ps K
>    where Ps is
>      null:  Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOL
>         0:  Same as null
>         1:  Erase all "erasable" chars from BOL to cursor
>         2:  Erase all "erasable" chars on the line
>
> Selective Erase in Display (DECSED):
>    CSI ? Ps J
>    where Ps is
>      null:  Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOS
>         0:  same as null
>         1:  Erase all "erasable" chars from BOS to cursor
>         2:  Erase all "erasable" chars on the screen
> --
---------------
    As detailed in the release doc msvibm.vt which is part of the
MS-DOS Kermit distribution suite, these commands are not supported in
MSK up to v3.13. They are very rarely used. But version 3.14 (to come
out) does implement them.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Sigurd Andersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: A little bit of reverse engineering.
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Sigurd Andersen)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 18:30:14 -0400
Organization: University of Delaware
Message-ID: <35d69m$[e-mail]>

In article <35bbuh$[e-mail]>,
<[e-mail]> wrote:
:

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From: [e-mail] (Cliff Stamp)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: kermit dialing help (3.1.3 on PC)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Cliff Stamp)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 17:32:24 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Message-ID: <35ckr8$[e-mail]>

Does anyone know how to tell kermit to redial after a set number
of rings/busy signals. Right now it is set to around 25 and I would
like to lower it to 2.

Thanks for your time.
--

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From: [e-mail] (Hutsel Barry E)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FTP - KERMIT ==>Problems
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT
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From: 3beh5@qlink (Hutsel Barry E)
Date: 17 Sep 1994 02:37:30 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Message-ID: <35dkpa$[e-mail]>

I'm just new at this, but am I doing something wrong:

1.  I am attempting to FTP a binary file (ie.  .ZIP)
2.  I set FTP to bin and get the file to my home directory
3.  Then I run kermit on the remote computer and escape (alt-x) to the

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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP - KERMIT ==>Problems
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Date: 17 Sep 1994 21:54:24 -0700
Message-ID: <35gh60$[e-mail]>

3beh5@qlink (Hutsel Barry E) writes:

>4.  Next I "set file type binary" on the local kermit
>Problem:  The file is useless when I get it to my local machine.  It's

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Dumb question...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail]
Date: 18 Sep 1994 00:56:48 -0400
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA
Message-ID: <35ghag$[e-mail]>


Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS?

Thanks.
Mike

(please e-mail me)
[e-mail]


otely execute commands, etc. but I am having problems getting kermit
to 'pipe' results back to a local machine; ie. I want to run a command
on a remote machine, and pipe its results into Kermit (in eg. a

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 20 00:41:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: A little bit of reverse engineering.
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Sep 94 00:41:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: SURFnet bv
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 12:32:01 GMT

On 16 Sep 1994 [e-mail] wrote:

> For a certain opac I have been give a version of kermit with "key settings",

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 08:41:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mdesouza)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit Access/Availability
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From: [e-mail] (MDESOUZA)
Date: 18 Sep 1994 18:26:12 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Message-ID: <35i0o4$[e-mail]>

Hello All,
I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc.
At the momnet I use procomm plus as my comm software to dial out of my

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From: [e-mail] (J. Wakeley Purple)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit dialing help (3.1.3 on PC)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (J. Wakeley Purple)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Internet Gateway of Louisville, KY
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 18:48:13 GMT

Cliff Stamp ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does anyone know how to tell kermit to redial after a set number
: of rings/busy signals. Right now it is set to around 25 and I would
: like to lower it to 2.

I don't think kermit has any default redial.

It does have a timeout until connect.

You're probably using kermit running with a script which has a loop in

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From: [e-mail] (Harry H Conover)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Harry H Conover)
Date: 18 Sep 1994 19:03:06 GMT
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Message-ID: <35i2ta$[e-mail]>


I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as
I have for the past 10 years or so.  So far, the program has survived
an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the

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From: [e-mail] (J. Wakeley Purple)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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From: [e-mail] (J. Wakeley Purple)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Internet Gateway of Louisville, KY
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 19:00:19 GMT

MDESOUZA ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hello All,
:     I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc.

: home, but the computer center guys say Kermit is way better.  they have
: a disk, but i remember that one could download the "latest" kermit

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From: [e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis)
Date: 18 Sep 1994 19:51:08 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
Message-ID: <35i5nc$[e-mail]>


Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit
on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with
Kermit.

If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest
transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a
14.4 modem.

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 08:44:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 21:32:25 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)

[e-mail] (Harry H Conover) writes:
>I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as
>I have for the past 10 years or so.  So far, the program has survived
>an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the
>Internet.  Sadly, it lacks certain features such as automatic
>re-dial, the ability to automatically log-off on completion of
>batch file transfers, etc.
>
>It identifies itself as: IBM PC KERMIT-MS V2.28....
>
>Can anyone point me to an FTP site that has a more recent MS-DOS
>version available?

The official ftp site for Kermit is kermit.columbia.edu, however, the
latest MS-Kermit is also available - along with many support programs
and information files - from SimTel.

NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII

Directory SimTel/msdos/kermit/
Filename   Type Length   Date   Description
==============================================
ddntac.hlp    A    4112  890813  Setting TAC parameters for Kermit
easyk110.zip  B   53931  890316  Kermit made easy. EasyKermit V1.10
ep437.zip     B   11529  900125  PC Code-Page-437-to-Epson char set translation
epson.zip     B    7646  900125  Epson printer driver for EGA graphics screens
ker_scp3.zip  B   19526  881114  Useful Kermit (v2.29 or above) script files
msicyr.zip    B    5079  910521  Kermit term init: send/rec Cyrillic characters
msiem2.ini    A    4202  890731  Kermit script maps PC keyboard for GNU Emacs
msiibm.zip    B   29843  890120  Kermit 2.32/A Script, tutorial, init files
msivt3.zip    B    5354  910521  MS-Kermit DEC keybd setups for IBM-compatibles
msivt321.zip  B    5688  910705  MS-Kermit keybd setup for DEC VT200-300 series
msk-rcv.bas   A    6495  910320  Easy bootstrap: Rcve-only Kermit pgm in BASIC
msker313.zip  B  336282  931004  MS-Kermit v3.13 comm pgm for IBM-compatibles
mskerdoc.zip  B  144524  890630  Kermit 2.32/A User's guide and other files
mskr-em2.zip  B   30433  910320  MS-Kermit v3.1 term emulation & graphics info
msr313.ann    A   18246  930719  Official announcement of MS-Kermit vers. 3.13
msr31321.pch  A    4218  940604  Patch file for MS-Kermit v3.13 (patches 1-21)
msulk2.zip    B   11684  910521  Driver allows use of DEC LK250 kbd w/MS-Kermit
msvgen.zip    B   60556  930719  MS-Kermit v3.13 executable for Generic MS-DOS
msvhp1.zip    B   45098  890130  Kermit 2.32/A Hewlett Packard specific
msvrb1.zip    B   48899  890130  Kermit 2.32/A Rainbow specific
msvv90.zip    B   67364  930719  MS-Kermit v3.13 executable for Victor 9000
msvz10.zip    B   69272  930719  MS-Kermit 3.13 executable for Heath/Zenith 100
pcbdker.zip   B    5218  890311  Collection of MS-Kermit scripts
pcprint.c     A    5190  890504  Print Unix host text files on PC (req. Kermit)
pcprint.nr    A    2994  890504  Unix man page for PCPRINT.C
scanch41.zip  B   14157  900106  Keyboard scan code check/display for MS-Kermit
tskerm25.zip  B   46838  940214  Keypads, bats, & logging scripts for MS-Kermit
xsend051.zip  B   11210  910320  Makes Kermit script files to send entire disk
yogiutil.zip  B   27954  910324  Chg blue color to underscore w/MS-Kermit v3.0x

Download msker313.zip and msr31321.pch.  That's all you need to get started.

For security reasons SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm),
is located on a host that is not accessible by anonymous ftp users, however
its files are available by anonymous ftp in directory /SimTel/msdos from
the primary mirror site OAK.Oakland.Edu (141.210.10.117) located in
Rochester, Michigan, and from the secondary mirror sites:

St. Louis, MO:  wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4)
/systems/ibmpc/msdos
Corvallis, OR:  archive.orst.edu (128.193.2.13)
/pub/mirrors/simtel/msdos
Australia:  archie.au (139.130.4.6)
/micros/pc/oak
England:  src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.10)
/pub/packages/simtel
Finland:  ftp.funet.fi (128.214.248.6)
/pub/msdos/SimTel
France:  ftp.ibp.fr (132.227.60.2)
/pub/pc/SimTel/msdos
Germany:  ftp.uni-paderborn.de (131.234.2.32)
/SimTel/msdos
Hong Kong:  ftp.cs.cuhk.hk (137.189.4.57)
/pub/simtel/msdos
Israel:  ftp.technion.ac.il (132.68.1.10)
/pub/unsupported/dos/simtel
Poland:  ftp.cyf-kr.edu.pl (149.156.1.8)
/pub/mirror/msdos
Sweden:  ftp.sunet.se (130.238.127.3)
/pub/pc/mirror/SimTel/msdos
Switzerland:  ftp.switch.ch (130.59.1.40)
/mirror/msdos
Taiwan:  NCTUCCCA.edu.tw (140.111.1.10)
/PC/simtel
Thailand:  ftp.nectec.or.th (192.150.251.33)
/pub/mirrors/SimTel/msdos

SimTel files may obtained by e-mail from various ftp-mail servers
or through the BITNET/EARN file servers.  For details see file
/SimTel/msdos/filedocs/mailserv.inf.  Gopher users can access the
collection through Gopher.Oakland.Edu.  World Wide Web (WWW) and
Mosaic users can connect to the URL http://www.acs.oakland.edu to
access the files on OAK.Oakland.Edu.

CD-ROM copies of the entire MS-DOS collection (including Windows) are
available from Coast to Coast Telecommunications, Inc., 5850 Dixie
Highway Clarkston, MI 48346, U.S.A., telephone [phone] or (810)
623-6700, or FAX [phone].  A WWW Forms Interface for ordering
CD-ROMs -  http://www.coast.net/SimTel/  - is also available.  This
two CD-ROM set includes the entire collection, which is not true of
CD-ROMs offered by some other vendors.  For information send e-mail to
[e-mail].  To order send e-mail to [e-mail].
Quarterly update subscriptions are available.  Dealer inquiries are
welcome.  Purchases of this CD-ROM set from Coast to Coast will
provide direct support to SimTel.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND


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From: [e-mail] (Erik Hatcher)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: C-Kermit for DOS questions
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 94 08:44:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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From: [e-mail] (Erik Hatcher)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 21:52:01 GMT

I've been trying to track down a version of C-Kermit for
DOS and have been unsuccessful.  In Cruz's book he has
a chart of the compatibilities of DOS kermit and C-Kermit
and their is one difference - no dynamic block sizes
on the DOS version.

My questions are...

Is their a version of Kermit for DOS that supports dynamic
blocks?  And where can that be obtained?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Erik
--
Erik Hatcher                           + "But every now and then we just have
http://fulton.seas.virginia.edu/~esh6h |  to howl with the wolves."

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 10:05:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Ketcham)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: auto redial script
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 94 10:05:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Ketcham)
Date: 18 Sep 1994 23:03:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Message-ID: <35igv4$[e-mail]>


Several people have mentioned automatic redial wrt kermit.  Here is
a little macro I kluged up to do it (to be included in .kermrc).
I present it not so much as the perfect way to do it, but rather as
*a* way.  I'd like to hear comments/criticisms on how this could be
done better or more robustly.

Problems I'm aware of:

--Only works with modems that return "BUSY" when the line is
busy.  I've used some that don't.

--Depends on ASCII being the character set (due to '\13').  I
think there's a better way to do this, but I couldn't
immediately find it in the kermit docs.

--If the line is *not* busy, must wait for the input statement
to time out.  Thus, the choice of time there is critical.
Don't want it too long, but if too short, might time out before
a slow phone connection completed (esp. long distance).  Is
there a way to wait for *any* text string, save it in a variable,
and then test it afterwards for "BUSY" or "CONNECT" -ness?

--ben

-------------

define demondial -
if > \v(argc) 1 assign \%p \%1, -
else ask \%p Number to dial (without atdt prefix):, -
echo \13demondial:  Trying number  (use ^C to abort)  ...\13, -
while EQUAL 1 1 { -
hangup, -
output atdt\%p\13, -
input 20 BUSY, -
xif FAILURE { -
echo \13demondial:  Looks like line's not busy.  Connecting  ...\13, -
connect, -
stop -
} -
else { -
echo \13demondial:  Line busy.  Retrying  ...\13 -
}, -
} -






From [e-mail] Wed Sep 21 10:07:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: CR translation in telnet connection
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Sep 94 10:07:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)
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From: [e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 00:14:20 GMT
Organization: cleese.apana.org.au Public Access UNIX [phone]
Message-ID: <35il4s$[e-mail]>

I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and
then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul
translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs,
when all I want to send is a plain CR.

Is there any way to achieve this?

cheers

andrew



From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:25:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: KERMIT & PCMCIA
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:25:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
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From: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 18:12:20 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: [phone])
Message-ID: <35cn64$qp0$[e-mail]>



Has anyone ever configured Intel's 14.4 fax/data PCMCIA card to work with
kermit ???
If so, how do you handle the setting of the COMn port while trying to

 Qmodem using Zmodem.  I was informed the problem
>lyes in SZ and systems are trying to deal with it.  But I was suggested
>trying to upload into UNIX main base and then ftr the files to armstrong.
>
>       Well if anyone else has a possible solution, please post it....

Have you tried  rz -a  to tell the Zmodem receive program that the file
you are about to send is text?  Zmodem defaults to binary mode.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:26:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chinn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit for Windows/NT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:26:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chinn)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Medicus Clinical Data Systems, Alameda, CA
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:14:45 GMT

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
Windows/NT?

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:29:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:29:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 14:19:01 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
>
>G'day,
>
>I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:29:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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From: [e-mail]
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:52:21 GMT
Organization: DES MOINES INTERNET, DES MOINES, IA
Message-ID: <35k8j5$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]

In article <35ghag$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS?
>
>Thanks.
>Mike
>
>(please e-mail me)
>[e-mail]

Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me
(P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone)

Richard L. Philpott          |  E-MAIL:  [e-mail]
Des Moines Internet          |  All opinions are just that, opinions!!
5911 Meredith Drive, Suite B |  All opinions are mine only and not
Urbandale, IA 50322          |  those of DES MOINES INTERNET


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:29:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John D Cederman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Uploading Text files
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:29:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (John D Cederman)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: UB
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 14:39:41 GMT

Hello,
I am using Qmodem with Zmodem protocol.  I have been able to download

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:30:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:30:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 15:17:50 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)

[e-mail] (Jianqing Hu) writes:
> ... don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors undetect
> (At least on our unix box)

This should fix the problem:

set blo 3

which is short for "set block-check-type 3-char-crc-ccitt".

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:31:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Binh Anson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:31:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Binh Anson)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 11:09:16 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>


G'day,

I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:33:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:33:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:28:18 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Message-ID: <35k052$[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]>,
Bill Chinn <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to
>Windows/NT?

 alpha.16) to
the computer at school (Ckermit 5A(188)) with the FILE COLLISION set
to UPDATE. Thus, I would expect that only those files on my home
commputer that are newer than the files on the school computer will be
transfered. And that is what happens...mostly. There are a few files
that constantly get transfered. Although I have not touched the
files on either system for months, everytime I run the transfer script
these few files get transfered. I have checked the dates on both
machines and they are identical, at least to the minute. Perhaps the
seconds are different?

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:33:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Hounsell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Is anybody working on kermit for windows?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: AECI BBS  [phone]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Hounsell)
Lines: 9
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Hounsell)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Joensuu University Language Center
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 12:23:08 GMT

Hello developers

I would like to know if anybody is working on kermit to run under windows
winsocket. I really like kermit for telnet and terminal emulation so I would li

I would li

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:42:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Kerry Schwab)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: AECI BBS  [phone]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kerry Schwab)
Lines: 18
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From: [e-mail] (Kerry Schwab)
Date: 18 Sep 1994 18:32:58 -0600
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Message-ID: <35im7q$[e-mail]>

In article <35i5nc$[e-mail]>,
Steven Patrick Iltis <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit
>on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with
>Kermit.
>

Yes, look at the "REDIRECT" command.  Suppose you were trying to
recieve a file, you'd do "sz <file>", enter the kermit escape char,
then type "REDIRECT rz".

Though it does seem almost seem like kermit treason ;)

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:43:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Help Request: Download Speed
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:43:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: AECI BBS  [phone]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Lines: 8
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From: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 03:39:19 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Message-ID: <35j157$[e-mail]>

I have been trying to improve the file transfer speed I get while
downloading from a workstation to my PC using C Kermit and MS Kermit.
The highest rate that I've gotten for a .zip file has been ~1320 cps

s survived
>an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:44:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:44:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Lines: 10
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 18:54:38 -0400
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Message-ID: <35l4re$[e-mail]>

In article <35i0o4$[e-mail]>,
MDESOUZA <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hello All,
>    I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc.
>At the momnet I use procomm plus as my comm software to dial out of my

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:45:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:45:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: AECI BBS  [phone]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Lines: 12
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From: [e-mail] (Jerry Alexandratos)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:21:54 -0400
Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited
Message-ID: <35kks2$[e-mail]>

In article <35d5gi$[e-mail]>,
Sigurd Andersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
:In article <35abck$[e-mail]>,
:Jerry Alexandratos <[e-mail]> wrote:
:: Has anyone out there been able to successfully multiplex packets so
:: that you can use kermit and another TCPIP application?  ...
::

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 07:48:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Todd Spindler)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 07:48:00 GMT
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Todd Spindler)
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From: [e-mail] (todd spindler)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:49:18 -0400
Organization: U of Miami/RSMAS
Message-ID: <35kfee$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (todd spindler)


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
>
>G'day,
>
>I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found

 files to armstrong.

Well if anyone else has a possible solution, please post it....



(cederman)






From [e-mail] Thu Sep 22 21:06:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Sep 94 21:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Lines: 9
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:26:02 -0700
Message-ID: <35lkoa$[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis) writes:

>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit?
> with Kermit ... , I can only get about 1200 cps on a
>14.4 modem.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 00:30:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John Jamulla)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 00:30:00 GMT
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (John Jamulla)
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From: [e-mail] (John Jamulla)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:21:38 GMT
Organization: Ford Motor Company -- standard disclaimers apply
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]


Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line?

I'd like to use linux's "term" program and I already have kermit
all set up for my needs. I need kermit to stop buffering and
looking at the link without dropping the phone line

Please reply to below address.

Thanks in advance,
John J.
_________________________________________________________________________
[e-mail]               John Jamulla - Dearborn, MI USA
PROFS:JJAMULLA JAMULLA -ON D1D1           Ford - Car Product Development
Bldg3 2nd Floor #2638 [phone]      CAD/CAM, Dearborn, MI 48121


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 08:21:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 08:21:00 GMT
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis)
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From: [e-mail] (Steven Patrick Iltis)
Date: 20 Sep 1994 00:09:51 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
Message-ID: <35l98f$[e-mail]>

Thanks to the many solutions posted here and e-mailed to me. I've got
to try them out now!

--
Steve Iltis
Computer Science Teacher
Westbury H.S., Houston
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 08:22:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 08:22:00 GMT
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:06:18 -0400
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Message-ID: <35l5ha$[e-mail]>

In article <35i5nc$[e-mail]>,
Steven Patrick Iltis <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit
>on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with
>Kermit.
>
>If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest
>transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a
>14.4 modem.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 23 20:35:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit for DOS/V
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Sep 94 20:35:00 GMT
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth)
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From: [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth)
Date: 20 Sep 1994 06:41:22 GMT
Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield
Message-ID: <35m06i$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]

Does anyone know the current state of kermit for DOS/V (the
IBM/Microsoft dual mode version for Japanese/English)?  I have a 3.13
beta from a site in Japan, but it has one bug that renders it almost
unusable.  The code conversion does not work properly for Old-Jis
coding as used by Japan's largest commercial database vendor, Nikkei
Telecom.

--
Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield,
Sheffield, England S10 2TN [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 19:05:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections
Date: 26 Sep 1994 19:05:27 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Distribution: world
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Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs
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The ckcker.upd file for 5A(190) Beta Sep 5/94 contains lots of very useful
info on control character prefixing.  I have one question.  The document
is very explicit about the need to quote 255 if a telnet server is involved
in the communications path.  In my case, I have a CISCO telnet server
in the path, I told C-Kermit 5A(189) to unquote 255 and it doesn't seem
to matter.  The other end is MS-Kermit 3.13 which does not let me explicitly
prefix or unprefix 255.  So, the questions are:

   1. Is MS-Kermit 3.13 quoting 255 and that's why I don't see a problem?
   2. Is it just that my tests don't illustrate the problem?  (I have a test
      file that includes singles and doubles of all 256 character codes as
      suggested in the .upd file.)  I've done binary uploads and downloads
      successfully.
   3. What does IAC stand for anyway?

I could just quote 255 but I'd first like to understand why.

P.S. To Joe D.  I found your comment about shiny toys perfectly acceptable and
the suggestion that you should watch your tone ridiculous.  In my opinion
you and Frank should be nominated for sainthood.

--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 20:43:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: C-Kermit for DOS questions
Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:43:16 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Erik Hatcher)  writes:
> I've been trying to track down a version of C-Kermit for
> DOS and have been unsuccessful.  In Cruz's book he has
> a chart of the compatibilities of DOS kermit and C-Kermit
> and their is one difference - no dynamic block sizes
> on the DOS version.
>
Au contraire - DOS Kermit does have "dynamic block sizes",
a.k.a. rubber packets.  This is in MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 (the
current version).

The idea is: if the line quality deteriorates and packet errors
(corruption or timeouts) occur, the file sender automatically
reduces the packet size.  As (when, if) the line quality improves
again, the packet length is gradually increased back to its
negotiated maximum size.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 20:45:12 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: CR translation in telnet connection
Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:45:12 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 16
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Andrew Dunstan)  writes:
> I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and
> then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul
> translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs,
> when all I want to send is a plain CR.
>
The makers of the Ethergate should read RFC854.

However, this is becoming such a pervasive problem that the forthcoming
releases of MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit will add an option,
SET TELNET NEWLINE-MODE RAW, to allow carriage returns to be sent
bare, with no LF or NUL stuffed after them as required by the TELNET
NVT specification (RFC854).

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 20:50:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:50:56 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Keith Petersen)  writes:
> The official ftp site for Kermit is kermit.columbia.edu, however, the
> latest MS-Kermit is also available - along with many support programs
> and information files - from SimTel.
>
 SimTel files may obtained by e-mail from various ftp-mail servers
> or through the BITNET/EARN file servers.  For details see file
> /SimTel/msdos/filedocs/mailserv.inf.  Gopher users can access the
> collection through Gopher.Oakland.Edu.  World Wide Web (WWW) and
> Mosaic users can connect to the URL http://www.acs.oakland.edu to
> access the files on OAK.Oakland.Edu.
>
Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on
the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is
kermit.columbia.edu.  We who write and support Kermit software have
no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might
(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc.

> CD-ROM copies of the entire MS-DOS collection (including Windows) are
> available from Coast to Coast Telecommunications, Inc...
>
Kermit software should not be on these CD-ROMs.  Once again, it creates
two big problems for the Kermit effort: it starves us of the income we
need to continue our work, and it creates a big support problem for us
since (a) the software on these CD-ROMs might be out of date, changed,
and/or incomplete, and (b) it is distributed without the manual.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 20:54:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: SOUTH AFRICA
Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:54:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 10
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <367cdd$[e-mail]>
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Dear readers...

Some site in South Africa (proxima.alt.za?) is reposting all of the messages
that were already posted to comp.protocols.kermit.misc, and truncating most
of them in the bargain, and rewriting the address of the posters.  Very
confusing and annoying.

Dear news person at proxima.alt.za -- please make it stop.  Thanks.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:06:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections
Date: 26 Sep 1994 21:06:01 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <367d3p$[e-mail]>
References: <36761n$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36761n$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike
Smith) writes:
>  1. Is MS-Kermit 3.13 quoting 255 and that's why I don't see a problem?
>
Both C-Kermit and MS-DOS Kermit will prefix 255 automatically when you have
made the connection with a SET PORT TCP (MS-DOS Kermit) or TELNET (or,
equivalently, SET NETWORK TCP/IP, SET HOST ...) command, i.e. when they
know for sure it's a TELNET connection.  Otherwise they don't, in which case
you might have to tell them to do it.

> 2. Is it just that my tests don't illustrate the problem?  (I have a test
>    file that includes singles and doubles of all 256 character codes as
>    suggested in the .upd file.)  I've done binary uploads and downloads
>    successfully.
>
It depends on the direction in which the data is going and on the terminal
server.  Some of them are oversensitive.  If a literal 255 comes in on the
serial end, it should be treated as data, but cases have been reported where
it is not.  More to the point, the Kermit program on the receiving end of
the TELNET connection has NO WAY of knowing this, and so when it is sending
files, it will cheerfully let you unprefix 255 -- don't do it!

>    3. What does IAC stand for anyway?
>
I Am a Command?  No, not really.  It's "Interpret As Command".  On a TELNET
connection, IAC (= 255) is a kind of in-band escape character, changing
the protocol from data mode to command mode.  To send an IAC as a literal
data character, one must send two of them.  See RFC854.

> I could just quote 255 but I'd first like to understand why.
>
Better safe than sorry.  It's only one character out of 256.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:14:44 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: auto redial script
Date: 26 Sep 1994 21:14:44 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 31
Distribution: world
Message-Id: <367dk4$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Benjamin Ketcham)  writes:
> Several people have mentioned automatic redial wrt kermit.  Here is
> a little macro I kluged up to do it (to be included in .kermrc).
>
We recommend you not alter your .kermrc (CKERMIT.INI), but rather,
add your customizations, overrides, and redefinitions to your own
personal customization file, .mykermrc (CKERMOD.INI).  Ditto for
MS-DOS Kermit: make alterations to MSCUSTOM.INI, not MSKERMIT.INI.

> --Depends on ASCII being the character set (due to '\13').  I
> think there's a better way to do this, but I couldn't
> immediately find it in the kermit docs.
>
I've never heard of a modem that did not use ASCII for its command
language.  However, some modems might be set to use line terminators
other than carriage return (by changing S3).  Unfortunately, there is
no way a program can find this out, except perhaps by sending
ATS3? followed by every conceivable character.

> --If the line is *not* busy, must wait for the input statement
> to time out.  Thus, the choice of time there is critical.
> Don't want it too long, but if too short, might time out before
> a slow phone connection completed (esp. long distance).  Is
> there a way to wait for *any* text string, save it in a variable,
> and then test it afterwards for "BUSY" or "CONNECT" -ness?
>
Yes - Read the ckcker.bwr file about this; there are some paragraphs
on this subject in the script programming section.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:24:57 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 19:24:54 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Kermit can't access modem under Windows
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>Hello.  I'm hoping that someone will indulge my ignorance and help
>with what might be a common problem.  Kermit works fine in DOS on
>my 386 with a USRobotics Sportster modem on Com 4, IRQ 5.  In windows
>it seems that Kermit can't access the modem.  After trying the computer
>hangs.  Cntl Alt. Del. sometimes quits Kermit and sometimes not, which
>seems to be connected to whether the mouse is moving (mouse is on Com1,
>IRQ 4).  I use other windows communications programs without problem,
>except that they don't include full implementations of Kermit, and
>the protocols they do include often don't work, which is why I want
>to run Kermit.  I *think* I've tried just about everything.  The modem
>is a 14,400 model, and I'm fairly sure I've got all the Kermit settings
>right, including, of course, the Com and Interrupt settings -- as I
>said, works fine in DOS.  Help!
>
>Thanks!  (BTW this is the latest Kermit MS-DOS 3.13)


As followup to my own post, I thought it might be worth telling that
the problem turned out to be "blank" com ports, which I had thought
I had to reserve for plugs attached to an I/O card, and whose
interrupts were being used by a sound card, etc.  Someone was kind
enough to notify my by e-mail that Windows requires all ports to be
filled in sequence.  This knowledge saved me potential hours of
frustration, and I haven't seen it documented anywhere.  So everything works
fine
now that I've rearranged things to give the modem "priority", as it
were, moving it to Com2 and changing the other interrupts around.

Thanks!

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:25:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Beads)
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:25:37 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 09:54:56 1994
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    My News reader, and probably yours too, has just been inundated
with a large flux of files from a site in South Africa. They appear to
be old messages repackaged with new headers and not always the entire
body. I'm sure it is a broken mail distribution system down there, and
this kind of thing happens a lot.
    So rather than adding to the list traffic with grumbles, please let
Columbia notify the postmaster of the site, and the rest of us will quietly
skip down to the new and interesting files.
        Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:10:58 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:11:22 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:11:51 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:12:19 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:13:26 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:13:53 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:14:13 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:14:34 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:14:55 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:16:08 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:16:32 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:18:30 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:19:06 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:20:05 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:20:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (R. Stewart Ellis)
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Subject: cmsg cancel <[e-mail]>
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:20:57 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:21:15 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:21:51 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:20:08 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Sigurd Andersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Lots of truncated postings appearing today
Date: 26 Sep 1994 17:20:08 -0400
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 8
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Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
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I'm seeing many truncated postings, mostly old ones re-appearing.
Is something wrong with who/whatever is handling posted messages?
-- Sig --  [e-mail]
--
Sigurd Andersen    Internet: [e-mail]   User Services
     __o            or  [e-mail]   023 Smith Hall
   _ \<,_                                              Univ. of Delaware
  (_)/ (_)         Ph: [phone]  Fax: [phone]   Newark, DE. 19716

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:22:23 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:24:31 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:25:58 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:30:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:31:12 1994
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                                            @
@                         _Insert Stupid Quote Here_                          @
@                                                                             @
@ Tim Flynn, Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008  ph.(515)-294-9022  @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:31:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John D Cederman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:32:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Dwight Hugget)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:32:01 GMT
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:32:25 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chinn)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:33:04 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jianqing Hu)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:32:47 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:33:25 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:33:40 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Binh Anson)
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:33:59 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Todd Spindler)
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:34:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Adam H. Lewenberg)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:34:16 GMT
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:34:36 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Hounsell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:35:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Hounsell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:35:03 GMT
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:35:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ramin Farzaneh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Distribution: world
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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:35:18 GMT
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:35:37 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:36:51 1994
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From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:09:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (John Chandler)
Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always?
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In article <362e3r$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes:

:    Why not always do "set file type binary"?
:    Is there any reason to use text mode?
:    Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files.
:    (I have the same question regarding ftp.)
:    Why is there a text mode at all?

When you settle into one way of doing things, it is easy to forget that other
ways exist.  Binary file transfers may work fine for all files in one context,
but the means of representing text vary widely in the computer world.  The
most obvious demonstration of the need for text mode is the existence of
many different types of character codes, ranging from 7-bit ASCII to 7-bit
ISO-646-with-nationals to 8-bit ISO-8859/x to 16-bit ISO-10646, not to
mention EBCDIC.  Somebody has to do the translation.
--
John F. Chandler             [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 22:59:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.archives.msdos.d
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 22:59:18 GMT
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>[e-mail] (Keith Petersen)  writes:
>> The official ftp site for Kermit is kermit.columbia.edu, however, the
>> latest MS-Kermit is also available - along with many support programs
>> and information files - from SimTel.
>[...]
>Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on
>the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is
>kermit.columbia.edu.  We who write and support Kermit software have
>no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might
>(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc.

MS-Kermit, in its latest versions, has been on SimTel for many years.
This is the first complaint I've seen about SimTel offering it.

>> CD-ROM copies of the entire MS-DOS collection (including Windows) are
>> available from Coast to Coast Telecommunications, Inc...
>>
>Kermit software should not be on these CD-ROMs.  Once again, it creates
>two big problems for the Kermit effort: it starves us of the income we
>need to continue our work, and it creates a big support problem for us
>since (a) the software on these CD-ROMs might be out of date, changed,
>and/or incomplete, and (b) it is distributed without the manual.

SimTel's policy is:

  Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs
  offered by several vendors.  If the program submitted should not
  be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution,
  it will not be accepted.

I am not aware of any Kermit documentation which prohibits or limits
CD-ROM distribution of the program.  MS-Kermit has been on every SimTel
CD-ROM since the first one was released several years ago.  If Columbia
insists on asserting this prohibition it means that MS-Kermit and its
support files will have to be removed from the SimTel collection.

In my opinion removing MS-Kermit would be a disservice to your user
community since the SimTel collection is more widely distributed than
Columbia's.  It is mirrored in more than 33 countries of the world
and the CD-ROMs provide a means to make it available in many other
countries which have no Internet service.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 21:17:42 1994
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From: [e-mail] (S.X. Srivastav )
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
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In article <35kfee$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (todd spindler) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Binh Anson) writes:
>>
>>G'day,
>>
>>I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found
>>that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow!
>>I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to
>>Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ?
>

My experience has been that Kermit offers "most excellent" terminal
emulation, but file transfer speeds are often quite low.  This is
despite my attempts to set the large packet lengths, using sliding
windows, and so on.  Although I have the latest official version of
Kermit, most of the other places that I dial into often have antique
versions of Kermit, and so I cannot get them configured as I would like to.

Although it is often pointed out that Z-modem is not very reliable, I
personally have not have any major problems with it.   I have used it on
a variety of systems.

So, now I use Kermit as my terminal emulation program, and then use
Z-modem (invoked from within Kermit) to do the file transfer.

Just my $.02.

Sanjeev



From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 11:20:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit packets past 9024 barrier??
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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In article <367e23$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Timothy John Flynn) writes:
>
> Any way to increase packet sizes past 9024??
>
> email preffered..
---------
    Read up on Columbia Kermits, discover sliding windows. 31 window
slots times 9KB per slot/packet = 279KB of stuff to be held pending
acknowledgment. That's effectively a packet of that length, but really
the stream is as long as the file (since ACKs come back during sending
of current material and let new packets be added to the list). Sliding
windows in Kermit is the clever complicated kind, known as selective
repeat, where only the bad packets need to be resent.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 20:40:09 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Sean Wheeler)
Subject: Problems with Kermit in PCPLUS for Windows
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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I know this is not the procomm support area but I thought I would ask some
people who have real answers before trying to go to the Datastorm folks.  I
am using PCPLUS for Windows ver. 2.00 (I had the same problem with 1.01) and
when I try to download files from our Unix box all I get is "UART Error"
messages from Procomm and no file transfer.  This happens in server as well as
standard send modes.

When I switch to MS-Kermit 3.13 everything works just fine.  BTW: I am using
C-Kermit 5A (189) on our Pyramid Unix box and our dial up connections require
S-7-1 comm params.

How do I need to configure the Unix end to properly transfer files to the
Procomm/Windows end?

--

Sean D. Wheeler
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 11:11:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 94 17:11:34 MDT
References: <36761n$[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
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In article <36761n$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mike Smith) writes:
> The ckcker.upd file for 5A(190) Beta Sep 5/94 contains lots of very useful
> info on control character prefixing.  I have one question.  The document
> is very explicit about the need to quote 255 if a telnet server is involved
> in the communications path.  In my case, I have a CISCO telnet server
> in the path, I told C-Kermit 5A(189) to unquote 255 and it doesn't seem
> to matter.  The other end is MS-Kermit 3.13 which does not let me explicitly
> prefix or unprefix 255.  So, the questions are:
>
>    1. Is MS-Kermit 3.13 quoting 255 and that's why I don't see a problem?
>    2. Is it just that my tests don't illustrate the problem?  (I have a test
>       file that includes singles and doubles of all 256 character codes as
>       suggested in the .upd file.)  I've done binary uploads and downloads
>       successfully.
>    3. What does IAC stand for anyway?
>
> I could just quote 255 but I'd first like to understand why.
>
> P.S. To Joe D.  I found your comment about shiny toys perfectly acceptable and
> the suggestion that you should watch your tone ridiculous.  In my opinion
> you and Frank should be nominated for sainthood.
------------
    Last first. Thanks Mike. I get pretty frazzled sometimes and it
takes charge of my keyboard and fingers.
    IAC, 255 quoting and all that jazz. A very good question to ask.
IAC is TCP/IP Telnet-speak for "Interpret As Command." Next question. Oh,
back up? Ok. Telnet has Options to negotiate in-line, both ways, and the
IAC (decimal 255) byte is the introducer of them, sort of like ESC in
control sequences for terminals. The rules say if one wants 255 to go
through as data it must be doubled. But doing that means looking at every
byte when we really want to shove a big buffer at TCP to get performance.
So MSK simply declines to unprefix 255 in file transfers and thus avoids
the buffer scanning/restuffing problem. Also, the 7-bit version of this
is 127, aka DEL, which is subject to becoming 255 with some parity.
    To see some Options as they happen tell MSK to SET TCP DEBUG ON.

    Given the interest in the Internet Infobahn I suggest folks start
reading up on TCP/IP and related material, if you have a technical bent.
A visit to the bookstore is recommended, and with this recommendation
as defense you might be able to buy one of those nifty TCP/IP books(*)
without the family complaining.
    (*) One such good technical intro is Comer's three volume set of
"Internetworking with TCP/IP", and most people will be happy with just
volume 1. Brave souls may wish to pursue the prime references: the RFCs
available on the Internet from many sites (look at the dozens on Telnet).
These are technical details, not how to use books.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 02:49:43 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.archives.msdos.d,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: 27 Sep 1994 02:49:43 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:
:[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
:>Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on
:>the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is
:>kermit.columbia.edu.  We who write and support Kermit software have
:>no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might
:>(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc.

Sorry to have to be blunt, Frank, but that is not a very nice thing
to say after all the work Keith and I have put over the years to
improve also the way MsKermit is distributed.  For example are you
aware that the more user-friendly format of MsKermit distribution
packages was instigated at the repeated requests of yours truly.
Likewise, what you write includes an implied (even if I am sure
accidental) allegation about the integrity of SimTel and Garbo as
distributors.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 06:46:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.archives.msdos.announce,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 06:46:51 GMT
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According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.

SimTel's policy is:

  Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs
  offered by several vendors.  If the program submitted should not
  be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution,
  it will not be accepted.

Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit:

  Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City
  of New York.  The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared
  without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained,
  except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software
  product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with
  commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to
  their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of
  Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University.

Because of this restrictive distribution policy all MS-Kermit programs
and other associated files bearing the Columbia University copyright have
been removed from SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm).

Questions and comments should be sent to Columbia, *not* to SimTel.
The e-mail address is:  [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Mon Sep 26 14:48:12 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Dick Wisan)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Can I call prtscn from a macro?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Sep 94 09:48:12 -0500
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I would like to turn printer logging on and off from macros.  You can
redirect the printer output to a file with SET PRINTER, and you can
turn the printer on and off with the keystroke verb \Kprtscn, but I
can't find a way to do it from a macro, so I could turn it on from,
say, mscustom.ini.

Keystroke verbs don't seem to work in a macro:

   define foo \Kprtscn

and neither does a key number:

   define foo \2329

Is there, perhaps, a way to press a or call a keystroke verb from
a macro?  I have Gianone's "Using MS-DOS-Kermit", 2nd ed.  If I've
missed something, a page reference will do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
R. N. (Dick) Wisan  - Email: internet [e-mail]
                    - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
                    - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 11:10:08 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP
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Maxwell E Evarts ([e-mail]) wrote:
: >Ah, but by using tnglass, I am limited to one connection.  If I use
: >Kermit in raw TCPIP mode, I can get multiple connections, and better
: >throughput.  Plus, if I shell to dos, I have more room to work with.
: >The only thing I'm looking for is a way to get better file transer
: >performance by using ftp instead, without having to give up any of the
: >goodies that I prefer to use kermit for.

: Unfortunately, the ETHDRV driver that PC/TCP loads owns the board, as it
: sounds like you already understand.  Here's a clip from the the
: MS-Kermit "beware" file that explains indicates PKTMUX as a possible
: solution for the brave (or foolhardy :-) :

This works for me, using pktmux.  It is worth the try.

Cowboy

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 13:37:43 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Date: 27 Sep 1994 13:37:43 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 112
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In article <368187$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> (Keith Petersen) writes:
> :[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
> :>Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on
> :>the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is
> :>kermit.columbia.edu.  We who write and support Kermit software have
> :>no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might
> :>(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc.
>
> Sorry to have to be blunt, Frank, but that is not a very nice thing
> to say after all the work Keith and I have put over the years to
> improve also the way MsKermit is distributed.  For example are you
> aware that the more user-friendly format of MsKermit distribution
> packages was instigated at the repeated requests of yours truly.
> Likewise, what you write includes an implied (even if I am sure
> accidental) allegation about the integrity of SimTel and Garbo as
> distributors.
>
Sorry, no slur intended.

Listen folks, this is a sensitive topic, and I'll try to explain our
position as clearly as possible.

The Kermit effort continues because it is centrally coordinated.  In the
development and maintenance of any protocol -- Kermit, XYZmodem, TCP/IP,
ISO OSI, you name it, standards must be set and to some degree enforced,
and therefore there must be a centralized keeper and setter of standards.
Otherwise, incompatible versions of Kermit would sprout up and they would
not be able to interoperate -- similar to the situation with the many
variants of Xmodem in the late 70s and early 80s.

Now the Kermit file transfer protocol, no matter how well defined, would
be of little use if it were not implemented in software programs.  And the
software programs would be of little use if they did not also offer all
the other features that one expects to find in communication software:
terminal emulation, script programming, etc.

Who writes these programs?  Who ensures that the software has implemented
the Kermit protocol correctly?  Who writes the documentation?  Who
provides technical support?  Real people.  And it's a lot of work.  At
Columbia University, we have a small staff devoted to these jobs.  Who
pays their salaries?  Who pays for the equipment, service contracts, etc?

Answer: every last penny comes from whatever income we can generate
through mail-order software distribution fees and book sales, plus the
occasional donation.  There aren't any deep-pockets foundations paying us
to write, document, and support software for you.  It's not shareware with
nag screens hounding you send money.  It's not shrink-wrapped commercial
software you have to buy in a store.  We try to support ourselves in the
way that is least painful for our user community.  But like it or not, we
do have to support ourselves.

The current controversy -- and this is not the only instance of it -- is
whether companies that make and sell -- or even give away -- CD-ROMs
should be allowed to include Kermit software on them.  Clearly there are
good and bad aspects to this.  On the good side, consumers get vast
amounts of software dirt cheap, which, in a short-sighted way, is good for
them.  On the bad side, the makers of these CD-ROMs, can sell them for
less than we charge for doing the same thing, e.g. sending Kermit software
out on diskette, tape, or cartridge.  Why?  Because we not only distribute
the software, we also write it, document it, and support it, day after
day, year after year.

When Kermit software is distributed on CD-ROMs, it takes away income from
us and at the same time adds to our workload.  People who receive Kermit
software in this way do not also receive the appropriate manuals, and so
they call us up or send email or letters asking us to explain to them how
to use the software.  We get hundreds of such support calls every day and
an ever-increasing rate.  Less money for more work.

Do you see where this trend leads when left unchecked?  The developers
have no time to develop, the tech support people are expected to "read the
manual" to users from sunup to sundown, progress grinds to a halt, and
finally everybody loses their job because there is no more income and the
Kermit effort dissolves.

So, once again, No: you can't put Kermit software on your CD-ROMs without
our written permission.  Much of the software that is on these CD-ROMs is
either written by students, who then go on to a real job since they have
to eat, or written by grant-sponsored efforts at universities.  Well, we
are not sponsored, but we are in this for the long haul.  We would like to
keep supplying you with Kermit software in the long term, and keep it up
to date with the rapidly changing requirements of new technologies.  That
requires full-time, responsible people.

What about FTP sites?  Nobody is saying you can't put Kermit software out
for FTP.  But -- and this applies to CD-ROMs too -- we can't police
thousands of FTP sites to ensure that their Kermit software is (a) up to
date, (b) complete, (c) unaltered, and (d) consistent.  We spend a huge
amount of time helping people whose problems are caused precisely because
they retrieved Kermit software from someplace else and the files were out
of date, incomplete, etc.

I'm absolutely not running down Keith, Timo, nor the many others who
collect software and put it on CD-ROMs (or FTP sites) as a public service.
Nor even the entrepeneurs who see this as a way of making a quick buck.
But think about it -- if you like this software and you want it to keep up
with the times, you have to do something to help support the people who
work long hard hours to bring it to you.

Bottom line: It's our software, it bears our copyright, we did all the
work, and we get to set the terms for its distribution.  The terms are
reasonable given the world and times in which we live.  There is no point
cluttering up the newsgroups (again) with a longwinded and acrimonious
debate on the topic.  We provide you with good software, good tech
support, good documentation, and most of you don't pay a penny for it.
If we made more money, we'd provide even better service: faster development,
more tech support people.  We're doing our best to strike a reasonable
balance.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 13:14:13 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?!
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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In article <[e-mail]>,
S.X. Srivastav ([e-mail]) wrote:

>My experience has been that Kermit offers "most excellent" terminal
>emulation, but file transfer speeds are often quite low.  This is
>despite my attempts to set the large packet lengths, using sliding
>windows, and so on.  Although I have the latest official version of
>Kermit, most of the other places that I dial into often have antique
>versions of Kermit, and so I cannot get them configured as I would like to.

    That brings up a good point:  The right software for each
    situation.  If you have a mainframe or Unix shell account, chances
    are you have some version of C-Kermit or IBM mainframe Kermit which
    you can tune to your needs.  I don't use BBS's very much, but the
    few I've dialed into have Kermit implemented as a choice in their
    menu system, where it's inaccessible to the user for configuration.
    If you're lucky, "super-Kermit" or some such will be a choice, in
    which case you'll get sliding windows (but still the standard
    packet size of 92).  In that case, z-modem might be a better choice
    simply because of how it's set up.  On the other hand, more and
    more BBS's are connecting up to the Internet.  Many of these will
    accept telnet sessions, but don't have ftp.  Kermit can be used to
    telnet to these and then transfer files through the telnet
    connection.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 13:38:59 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf.
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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In article <[e-mail]>,
YATES, JODYE ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is
>that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns
>inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even
>recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I
>load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so
>the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit
>downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP?

    As the previous follow-ups show, there's some confusion about your
    question.  If the 'text files from somewhere' are in WordPerfect
    format, use binary modes for all your file transfers.  In the event
    that they are plain ascii (more likely), use ftp in ascii mode
    (default), and Kermit in text mode (also default).  WordPerfect can
    import ascii and convert it to WP format.  I, too, am not familiar
    with WP 6.0, but the functions you want (from WP 5.1) are text
    in/out, DOS text, and then you should have a choice: Preserve the
    carriage returns and turn them into WP hard returns, or turn the
    CR's into soft returns if they approach the right margin and format
    the text for the margins set.

    Hope that helps.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 14:12:55 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:12:55 GMT
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In article <35qjl6$[e-mail]>,
Jim Monty ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but
>it was never answered:  Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP
>packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13?

    [....]

>What's different about the newer
>version of the packet driver?  I'd like to be able to use it instead of
>the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from
>memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability.

    One possible solution is that, assuming this driver works like your
    standard TSR, you could use v.9.6, and a TSR utility to remove it.
    Have a look at oak.oakland.edu:/SimTel/msdos/tsrutil (directory).
    Sam Ko, author of the list of Useful Shareware and PD Software at
    ftp sites recommends tsrcom35.zip.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 15:25:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bernice Polvi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: WFWG/Kermit BIOS errors?
Date: 27 Sep 1994 15:25:27 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
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FRUSTRATED by the following problem, Any ideas would be appreciated.

When using KERMIT from within WFWG's, many of our users get the following
error message when attempting to establish a MF serial connection or initiate
a file transfer:

?WARNING: UNKNOWN HARDWARE for Port.
          Using the BIOS as BIOS2 unimplemented speed.

The windows session must then be terminated and started again.

If your certain you have a solution please post for all to read, if
your uncertain please Email me, I'd welcome any ideas.

Thanks inadvance!


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 14:24:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Date: 27 Sep 1994 09:24:03 -0500
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In article <[e-mail]>,
Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
>University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.

Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on
a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely?

Les Mikesell
  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 15:45:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (yannis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: winsock.dll
Date: 27 Sep 1994 15:45:27 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame
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Hi,
I know this is not the best group to post this question,
but you guys out there seem to know a lot about modems and
protocols anyway ;-)
  I recently got winsock.dll from a friend and I have no
idea what to do with it...
any references on the subject?


Thanks in advance and sorry about this "improper" posting!

Yannis



e-mail:[e-mail]

---
-------------------------------------
Birth of terror
death of much more
I'm the slave of fear, my captor
Never warnings ...

Metallica - The frayed ends of sanity


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 17:35:44 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Date: 27 Sep 1994 17:35:44 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Distribution: World
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References: <3699u3$[e-mail]>
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In article <3699u3$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
> >University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.
>
> Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on
> a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely?
>
Before this new newsgroup bursts into flames, why not let the parties
involved work things out amongst themselves.

Develop a new file transfer program that can be distributed freely?
Be my guest.  If it becomes as successful as Kermit is, you will soon
find yourself facing the same costs as we do and the need to either
meet them or go out of "business".

- Frank


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 17:53:53 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: WFWG/Kermit BIOS errors?
Date: 27 Sep 1994 17:53:53 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 14
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <369m7h$[e-mail]>
References: <369dh7$[e-mail]>
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In article <369dh7$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Bernice Polvi) writes:
> FRUSTRATED by the following problem, Any ideas would be appreciated.
> When using KERMIT from within WFWG's, many of our users get the following
> error message when attempting to establish a MF serial connection ...
>
Our accumulated knowledge about Windows for Workgroups 3.11 versus
MS-DOS Kermit was posted previously, and is also available via anonymous
ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/a, file mskwfw.doc.

- Frank
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 11:55:12 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35ktea$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <35k8j5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>> In article <35ghag$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> > Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS?
>>
>> Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me
>> (P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone)
>>
>Actually, this might have been a trick question: There is no C-Kermit
>for DOS.

    Y'know what?  There ought to be...  I've been using C-Kermit on my
    Unix account for a while, now.  Though I don't use most of its
    features (I use it as a remote only), I've noticed in glancing
    through the docs that it has a more powerful script language, and
    some other features that MS-Kermit lacks.  I could use those
    features (especially the script language) on my PC.  What gives?
    DOS won't support them (it would figure :-/ )?  The expanded Kermit
    wouldn't run on a poor old XT with floppy drives like mine?

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 18:30:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Date: 27 Sep 1994 18:30:39 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 34
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
writes:
> In article <35ktea$[e-mail]>,
> Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
> > > ...
> >Actually, this might have been a trick question: There is no C-Kermit
> >for DOS.
>
>     Y'know what?  There ought to be...  I've been using C-Kermit on my
>     Unix account for a while, now.  Though I don't use most of its
>     features (I use it as a remote only), I've noticed in glancing
>     through the docs that it has a more powerful script language, and
>     some other features that MS-Kermit lacks.  I could use those
>     features (especially the script language) on my PC.  What gives?
>     DOS won't support them (it would figure :-/ )?  The expanded Kermit
>     wouldn't run on a poor old XT with floppy drives like mine?
>
Well, aside from the obvious human-resource considerations we have
been reading about so much today (who is going to do the work???) we are
never going to be able to produce a C language version of Kermit for DOS
that is better than MS-DOS Kermit and that will still fit in memory.
MS-DOS Kermit is painstaking "hand crafted" to pack the most wollop into
the smallest amount of memory, and also to do all sorts of things at the
hardware level that simply not comfortable -- even possible -- in C.

C-Kermit is designed to run on real operating systems.  MS-DOS Kermit *is*
an operating system.

MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 will have many of the missing script programming features
added, in particular the \functions().  Hopefully we can get out from under
the great debates of who is entitled to what long enough to let us finish
getting this new release together.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 02:28:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Can I call prtscn from a macro?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 94 08:28:00 MDT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 12
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dick Wisan) writes:
> I would like to turn printer logging on and off from macros.  You can
> redirect the printer output to a file with SET PRINTER, and you can
> turn the printer on and off with the keystroke verb \Kprtscn, but I
> can't find a way to do it from a macro, so I could turn it on from,
> say, mscustom.ini.
-----------
    Can't do it. The printing you are discussing is occuring only within
Connect mode and the operations controlling it need to occur while that
particular terminal emulation session is being executed (versus being at
the Kermit prompt).
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 04:36:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 94 10:36:33 MDT
References: <35qjl6$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 30
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
> In article <35qjl6$[e-mail]>,
> Jim Monty ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
>>Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but
>>it was never answered:  Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP
>>packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13?
>
>     [....]
>
>>What's different about the newer
>>version of the packet driver?  I'd like to be able to use it instead of
>>the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from
>>memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability.
>
>     One possible solution is that, assuming this driver works like your
>     standard TSR, you could use v.9.6, and a TSR utility to remove it.
>     Have a look at oak.oakland.edu:/SimTel/msdos/tsrutil (directory).
>     Sam Ko, author of the list of Useful Shareware and PD Software at
>     ftp sites recommends tsrcom35.zip.
---------------
    I answered this previously in this list. The Crynwr v11.x SLIP8250.COM
program has a mistake which eliminated a needed Packet Driver function. I told
Russ Nelson about it. In the meanwhile I suggest either using another SLIP
program or go back to the version 9.x material (my original rewrite of
SLIP8250.COM is tucked away in directory kermit on netlab2.usu.edu). Simtel
and similar popular ftp/bbs sites might have the older version, and its worth
a look.
    MSK version 3.14 has a workaround for this problem.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 20:47:07 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Melvin Klassen)
Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 20:47:07 GMT
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[e-mail] (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes:
> Why not always do "set file type binary"?
> Is there any reason to use text mode?
> Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files.
> (I have the same question regarding ftp.)
> Why is there a text mode at all?

Because KERMIT runs on (at least) one "non-ASCII" piece of hardware,
the IBM mainframe.  On that platform, KERMIT has to compensate for
the multitudinous differences between EBCDIC and ASCII.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 21:07:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (robert brass)
Subject: set speed command
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Does set speed set the modem speed?
Keywords: speed
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:07:56 GMT
Lines: 8
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi,
    Does the set speed command set the modem speed or the
terminal/line speed. I have an Octocom modem capable of 14400 but
there is no 14400 speed available in the set speed command. When I set it
to 19200 and dial a number, I get a message "can't change speed to
14400". How can I connect at 14400?
        Bob


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 06:50:04 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 94 12:50:04 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <3699u3$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 37
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <3699u3$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> Keith Petersen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
>>University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.
>
> Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on
> a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely?
>
> Les Mikesell
>   [e-mail]
----------
    If you wanted to, but it might be a good idea to reread the
Columiba copyright notice to discover what's going on. The notice
says, amongst other things, a person/organization can't redistribute
the Columbia material for profit etc without prior clearance. That
seems to be very reasonable to me.
    Guess what's lacking about the Simtel CDROM distribution
process.
    Let me touch on another aspect of this situation: Compuserve.
If you read the fine print then when a file is posted on CIS they
very nearly own the item. Oh boy! I run an anonymous ftp server or
two, and there are three kinds of files on them: Novell generated,
third party submissions to the Novell forum on CIS, and other third
party software. Novell's own files are offered via legal agreement with
the company. It took a lot of work by people to obtain a satisfactory
legal release document so the Novell forum third party material could
be made available on the Internet (that's netwire\novuser). Novell did the
hard work to make it happen.  Other files are accepted or declined
depending on whether the author has given permission for them to be
redistributed; no permission == no offering from my site (as best that I
can track it). If someone sends my archive a file which seems to have come
from CIS but the release is not made then I decline the file. I don't get
involved with money or CDROMs or making tapes for people, yet these operating
rules apply.

    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 07:02:44 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: WFWG/Kermit BIOS errors?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 94 13:02:44 MDT
References: <369dh7$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <369dh7$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bernice Polvi) writes:
> FRUSTRATED by the following problem, Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
> When using KERMIT from within WFWG's, many of our users get the following
> error message when attempting to establish a MF serial connection or initiate
> a file transfer:
>
> ?WARNING: UNKNOWN HARDWARE for Port.
>           Using the BIOS as BIOS2 unimplemented speed.
>
> The windows session must then be terminated and started again.
-------------
    Their Windows configurations must be slightly inappropriate for
any DOS program to use the serial ports. May I suggest reviewing the
serial port setup in WFW. Please do watch out for FAX program also
owning the port while Windows is running.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 22:22:49 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: set speed command
Date: 27 Sep 1994 22:22:49 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 31
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <36a5vp$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (robert brass)
writes:
> Does the set speed command set the modem speed or the
> terminal/line speed. I have an Octocom modem capable of 14400 but
> there is no 14400 speed available in the set speed command. When I set it
> to 19200 and dial a number, I get a message "can't change speed to
> 14400". How can I connect at 14400?
>
It sets the computer's serial port speed.  The modem speed can only be
set by modem-specific methods.  It would have helped if you had said
which Kermit program you were using.  Let's say it's C-Kermit.  If you had
read the manual, "Using C-Kermit", you would have discovered (in the
section "Finer Points of Dialing" in chapter 3) that Kermit can either
(a) adjust its interface speed to the CONNECT speed reported by the modem,
or (b) keep its interface speed constant, i.e. ignore the modem's report.
The command is SET DIAL SPEED-MATCHING { ON, OFF }.  By default, it tries
to change to the speed reported by the modem.  In your case, it seems that
your version of C-Kermit (based upon information from the system header
files, etc) does not support 14400 bps.  But that's not the real problem --
what you really wanted to do was set your modem's interface speed to
19200 and FIX IT THERE, and then tell C-Kermit to ignore the speed in the
CONNECT message.

C-Kermit 5A(190) -- still in Beta due to numerous distractions -- supports
(in general) a wider range of speeds, including 14400 bps on some systems.
But since I don't have 450 different operating-system/version combinations
directly accessible, I can't guarantee that I caught them all.  For further
information, see the section SERIAL COMMUNICATION SPEEDS in the ckccfg.doc
file.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 21:53:29 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.archives.msdos.announce,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:53:29 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Lines: 15
Approved: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Originator: [e-mail]
Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.archives.msdos.announce:6845 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:258
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo.  The
files have not yet been physically deleted, but their read
permissions have been removed.  For all details of the situation
please see the comp.protocols.kermit.misc newsgroup.  Please do not
direct any queries about this to Garbo moderators.  Kermit is
distributed from the Columbia University.  The support person there
is Frank da Cruz [e-mail].

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 20:58:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ken Pizzini)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 27 Sep 1994 20:58:52 GMT
Organization: What, me?
Lines: 24
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <36a12c$[e-mail]>
References: <35qtj3$[e-mail]> <35upim$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <35upim$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <35qtj3$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
>writes:
>> : zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user.
>> Agreed.  Kermit is not for the turnkey user, unless the user is
>> unusually patient.  Creating the three-line ".kermrc" file is
>> essential for reasonable throughput with kermit.
>>
>Matter of preference.  If by "turnkey user" you mean somebody who wants a
>file transfer to either be fast or else fail, you're right.  On the other
>hand, if a turnkey user is someone who wants a transfer to work out of the
>box, even if it is slow, then I'd say Kermit is the ticket.

Okay then, an idea for a future release: have a "set transfer fast" and
"set transfer robust" (or the moral equivalent) option: the former will
work as fast as possible over a reliable 8-bit clean link, and the
latter is the current situation.  This is similar to the current
situation, but requires less knowledge/guesswork on the part of the "I
just want to run this thing" user.  (As to the exact command to use,
try for something that will be somewhat self-apparent in the online
help.)

        --Ken Pizzini

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 08:46:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Sep 94 14:46:34 MDT
References: <35k8j5$[e-mail]> <35ktea$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 21
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
> In article <35ktea$[e-mail]>,
> Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
>>In article <35k8j5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>> In article <35ghag$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>     Y'know what?  There ought to be...  I've been using C-Kermit on my
>     Unix account for a while, now.  Though I don't use most of its
>     features (I use it as a remote only), I've noticed in glancing
>     through the docs that it has a more powerful script language, and
>     some other features that MS-Kermit lacks.  I could use those
>     features (especially the script language) on my PC.  What gives?
>     DOS won't support them (it would figure :-/ )?  The expanded Kermit
>     wouldn't run on a poor old XT with floppy drives like mine?
>
>                         Jeff
----------
    Vaguenes Jeff, so vague. MS-DOS Kermit should run just fine on
your XT if it has enough memory (512KB is more than enough); floppy
based is ok too if you don't mind the delays.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 21:35:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bernard Chen)
Subject: initialization string
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr Usenet)
Nntp-Posting-Host: maui.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 27 Sep 1994 21:35:03 GMT
Lines: 10
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

i just compiled cku190 for my machine (sonynews, although i don't know
if that matters), and tried dialing with the same .kermrc as i was
using with cku189.  the modem is a microcom.  i keep getting an error:
TIMEOUT in initializing modem.  i didn't copy down the exact error
message, but it was a TIMEOUT in initializing the modem.  this
initialization string should work with the modem, since it works fine
with cku189.  would anyone have any ideas why this isn't working?

bern
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 23:27:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:27:33 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 37
Distribution: World
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In article <36a12c$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken
Pizzini) writes:
> Okay then, an idea for a future release: have a "set transfer fast" and
> "set transfer robust" (or the moral equivalent) option: the former will
> work as fast as possible over a reliable 8-bit clean link, and the
> latter is the current situation.  This is similar to the current
> situation, but requires less knowledge/guesswork on the part of the "I
> just want to run this thing" user.
>
Au contraire -- today's user does not want to learn any commands, and is
no more likely to stumble upon this one than any other.

This is sad, because the slick software industry has put forward the
idea that all one needs to do is click on something and the magic is
unleashed, which is completely untrue and misleading in the case of
communications software.  They raise the expectations of users unreasonably
high.  There is no way that communications software can know what is going
on outside the computer, and I maintain that there is no way that it can
even test for this in a nonobtrusive, nondestructive fashion.

At some point, the user has to learn something, at least when things don't
work.  So yes, maybe you have a point.  Maybe Kermit should be tuned for
"damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead", and then it would fail about half
the time, and then the user would be forced to look stuff up in the
documentation and learn about the things that every user must know in order
to communicate successfully in a diverse or hostile environment.

Or not.  More likely they would be so angry and frustrated that they would
just give up.  Which is worse?

I think that those of us on this newsgroup are capable of entering the
two or three commands needed to make Kermit transfers default any way we
want them to.  The question is what the DEFAULT defaults should be for
somebody who doesn't know anything and swallows the hype.  I think the
conservative ones are still the most appropriate.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 23:36:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: initialization string
Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:36:56 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Bernard Chen) writes:
> i just compiled cku190 for my machine (sonynews, although i don't know
> if that matters), and tried dialing with the same .kermrc as i was
> using with cku189.  the modem is a microcom.  i keep getting an error:
> TIMEOUT in initializing modem.  i didn't copy down the exact error
> message, but it was a TIMEOUT in initializing the modem.  this
> initialization string should work with the modem, since it works fine
> with cku189.  would anyone have any ideas why this isn't working?
>
As you know, C-Kermit 5A(190) is in Beta test.  You should send bug
reports straight to me.  In this case, I would have asked you to collect
a debug log ("log debug", makes a big file called debug.log) and email
it to me.

Here's another thing you can do.  First, run C-Kermit 5A(189), tell it
to "set dial display on", and give a dial command.  Watch what happens.
Better still, record it in a typescript.  Then do the same with 190.
Then look at the typescript and see if you can dope out what is different.
Send me the typescript by email.  If I can't figure it out from the type-
script, then we can go to the big debug log.

Also, bear in mind that I don't have a Microcom modem, so this debugging
might have to be carried out by "remote control".

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 22:41:57 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections
Date: 27 Sep 1994 22:41:57 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
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Thanks to Frank for his explanation.

Last night I was doing some more testing with the same Kermit programs, the
same test files, the same PC, the same telnet server, and a different Unix
host.  When I configured the host to unprefix 255, uploads caused retries.
When I prefixed 255 the retries went away.
--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 23:04:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Fraser)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit via tn3270
Date: 27 Sep 1994 19:04:14 -0400
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Lines: 30
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In article <36481e$[e-mail]>,
Philip Wirtz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I use MSDOS Kermit on a PC-compatible machine to emulate a VT100 when
>connecting (over a modem) to a Sun running Solaris.  I can upload,
>download, and "transparent print" without problem.  When logged on to the
>Sun, I use tn3270 to connect to an IBM mainframe running VM/CMS.  As an
>alternative route to the IBM mainframe, I can use MSDOS Kermit to dial up
>through a 7171 protocol emulator.  I have no problem using Kermit to
>upload, download, or transparent print when I use the ALTERNATIVE route to
>the IBM mainframe (i.e., dialing up through the 7171).  However, when
>using the tn3270 route (which of course bypasses the 7171), I cannot
>upload, download or transparent print.  Speculatively, it appears that
>escape sequences are not being properly passed to the Sun (and therefore
>to my PC), so (for example) the PC Kermit does not know that it needs to

a 7171 looks like a local 3274 type control unit to the ibm mainframe and
translate the special 3270 type control characters to the async terminal
connectedt to it.  tn3270 does the same thing however, the 7171 has
already translated the characters.

To use tn3270, you have to connect to something like a 8232 (I can't
remember if this is the right number) or a BTI box.  There is associated
tcp software on the ibm mainframe.

The 7171 does not have associated software on the mainframe as it does
the necessary translation inside.

Doug Fraser
(use the above answer as if I hadn't worked hands on with mvs for three
years)

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 23:41:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jong-Yul Cha)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: [Q] Initializing kermit
Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:41:01 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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I mostly use kermit to get a slip connection via 14.4K modem.
Is it possible to put the dialing number and prefix (such as
atdt 123-4567) into the initializing file (mskermit.ini or
.kermrc) to have an automated call?  Thank you.


From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 23:42:49 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Date: 27 Sep 1994 19:42:49 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
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If you want to make some money you can start trying to collect from
these CD publishers, but if you want to keep Kermit spreading you better
let people spread the programs any way they can, and *sell* the manuals.
Actually I thought you did that anyway.

People tend to use zmodem over Kermit because it has so many old
versions out there. The latest version may outperform zmodem in some
test or other, but when calling another system chances are that the
speed will be poor because one end didn't set left handed sliding
hexadecimal escape packets or some such.

The next enhancement to Kermit better be teaching it to configure
itself, because the current version has enough bells and whistles to
tune to discourage the business person who just wants it to work.

I get little consulting calls fairly frequently to tune complex stuff,
and the only thing which brings in more calls than getting Kermit to
really fly is Telebit modems.

I think you should make your money from leting these people go and
selling the manuals and a CD with the latest versions of every Kermit
version you have. I don't speak for other UNIX users, but I certainly
would buy a reasonably priced Kermit snapshot once a year. I'd probably
even put a stack on the corner of my table at the next computer show if
I could buy for a few bucks off in small quantity, and I bet clubs would
order copies too.

I respect what you are trying to do here, but I seriously believe that
you don't have a clear marketing plan here. Set up an "official Kermit
Answer Center" with a 950 area code and charge a small fee. You may not
be as much fun as phone sex, but I bet you can make a buck at it!
--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 00:04:57 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [Q] Initializing kermit
Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:04:57 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
Distribution: World
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In article <36aaid$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Jong-Yul Cha) writes:
> I mostly use kermit to get a slip connection via 14.4K modem.
> Is it possible to put the dialing number and prefix (such as
> atdt 123-4567) into the initializing file (mskermit.ini or
> ..kermrc) to have an automated call?  Thank you.
>
Of course.  I'd recommend something like this.  Create a DOS Batch
file, say SLIP.BAT, that starts up Kermit for SLIP, something like:

  kermit -f slip.scr

And then the SLIP.SCR file would contain the needed Kermit commands,
which depend on your modem and so on.  But, as you know, this is only
the first step.  Now you need to exit from Kermit, leaving the connection
open, and then start your SLIP8250 or ETHERSLIP driver, and then start
Kermit again to actually use the SLIP connection (or you can start any
other TCP/IP application that uses SLIP).  You should not start the
packet driver from the Kermit prompt, because that will result in
fragmented memory, and you might not be able to load other applications
after that.

- Frank



From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 00:16:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Mendenhall)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: transmit command 7 bit only?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:16:52 GMT
Organization: HSU Library
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I am trying to send a file with the transmit command. The diacritic
characters are being replaced with "b" characters. Due to limitations
with the host software, this is the only method I can use. Does anyone
know if transmit is limited to 7 bits or is there some other reason
why this is happening.

Thanks,
Tom Mendenhall
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 00:42:07 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: transmit command 7 bit only?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:42:07 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
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In article <36aclk$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom
Mendenhall) writes:
> I am trying to send a file with the transmit command. The diacritic
> characters are being replaced with "b" characters. Due to limitations
> with the host software, this is the only method I can use. Does anyone
> know if transmit is limited to 7 bits or is there some other reason
> why this is happening.
>
You did not say which Kermit program you are using.  Assuming it is
MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit...  Terminal connections -- including the
TRANSMIT command, which uses the terminal connection to upload a file
as if you were typing it -- are 7 bits by default.  This is explained
repeatedly in the documentation.  The reason is that many hosts and
services use parity, but the poor user doesn't know it, and if terminal
connections were 8 bits by default, users would see garbage on their
screens.

To use 8-bit text in a terminal session, you must do two things:
(1) Tell Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8, and (2) set up the
appropriate character-set translations.

Please read the chapter on International Character Sets in the appropriate
manual, "Using MS-DOS Kermit" or "Using C-Kermit".

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 00:14:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Robert S. Dangel)
Subject: Windows Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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Is there a windows version of PC Kermit? I have qmodem Pro and
the Kermit protocol doesn't work with the UNIX machines..


From [e-mail] Sun Sep 28 04:30:29 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:30:29 -0500
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 22
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In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>The notice
>says, amongst other things, a person/organization can't redistribute
>the Columbia material for profit etc without prior clearance. That
>seems to be very reasonable to me.
>    Guess what's lacking about the Simtel CDROM distribution
>process.

The part that I don't understand is how the CDROM distribution is
somehow different from the profit made by the internet providers
and phone companies when someone arranges to ftp the files directly
from Columbia. The only difference from this end is that you have
a choice about the CDROMs and for most people it is a cheaper alternative.
Since the CDROM distributers don't attempt to restrict your access
by other means or prevent futher redistribution of the contents they
are clearly selling the service of distribution in the same sense
that the phone companies do.  If either distribution makes a profit
it is only indirectly related to the content.

Les Mikesell
  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 05:28:50 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Tim O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions
Date: 28 Sep 1994 05:28:50 GMT
Organization: New York University
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Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

>  2. It will answer most of your questions -- we put a lot of work into
>     it -- hundreds of examples, step-by-step instructions, illustrations,
>     tables, appendices, tutorials, glossaries, a comprehensive index.

... and the hard work shows on every page.

The first chapter in the MS Kermit book alone is worth the price.  I get
a steady parade of lost souls at my door, some of them terrified of their
modems and utterly confused about how a file gets from Point A to Point B.
In every case but one, I have been able to explain how things work by
pulling the book off the shelf and reviewing the pictures in the first
chapter.  (The one exception was a lost cause!)

--tim o'connor

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tim O'Connor                                        [e-mail]
NYU Academic Computing Facility                   Phone: [phone]
251 Mercer St., New York, NY 10012                  Fax: [phone]

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 08:31:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Terje Mathisen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Selective quoting of control chars
Date: 28 Sep 1994 08:31:03 GMT
Organization: Hydro Data, Norsk Hydro (Norway)
Lines: 14
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I wrote my own Kermit implementation from scratch about 10 years ago, using
just the protocol spec. A couple of years later I extended it with sliding
window and large packets, whereupon I finally added the obvious extension
of allowing a selective set of control chars to be unquoted.

I've noticed that this capability is now included in CKermit, and I would
like to make my program compatible with the standard.  (I assume this is
implemented as a single feature bit in the capability mask, plus a list
of characters to not quote, probably in the form of a bitset.)

Where can I find the current (190) protocol spec?

-Terje


From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 14:36:54 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Huggins)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit 3.13, TCP/IP, and PPP dial-in
Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:36:54 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept.
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <36bv26$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: quip.eecs.umich.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

My local university runs a dial-in port which accepts PPP dial-ins.
I'm trying to figure out how to get my MS-Kermit 3.13 to interface
with PPP.

I see from the MS-Kermit book that there are a number of
'set tcp/ip' commands that can be issued.  I'm also rather new at this
stuff (I've only used MS-Kermit in the 'usual' asynchronous mode
until now), so I'm a little unclear as to what I need to do to
get my PPP dial-in package to work with Kermit TCP/IP support.

Anyone out there doing this type of thing themselves?  I'd ask
clearer questions but as yet I don't know what I don't know.


--
Jim Huggins, Univ. of Michigan                          [e-mail]
"You cannot pray to a personal computer no matter how user-friendly it is."
(PGP key available upon request)                             W. Bingham Hunter

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 14:38:17 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Windows Kermit?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:38:17 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 15
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <36bv4p$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Robert S. Dangel) writes:
> Is there a windows version of PC Kermit? I have qmodem Pro and
> the Kermit protocol doesn't work with the UNIX machines..
>
The only full-function version of Kermit for Windows is MS-DOS Kermit,
currently version 3.13.  It is a Windows-aware DOS application.  Until
and unless we are able to create a native Windows version with anywhere
near the same degree of functionality, we recommend and support MS-DOS
Kermit for use with Windows.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode,
file msvibm.zip.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 15:20:29 1994
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From: Chris Milton <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Newer QL-Kermit?
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:20:29 -0400 (EDT)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA
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Has anyone written a newer QL-Kermit for the
Sinclair Quantum Leap computer?
The QL-Kermit versions available from kermit.columbia.edu
use proprietary versions of BCPL and C, and
have few of the currently supported features
found in C-Kermit and MS-Kermit.

Christopher Milton  [e-mail]
BA, linguistics, Macalester College, 1989   Work  [phone]
Arlington (VA) Central Library/Circulation/Reserves
My other cumputer {is,will be} a Sinclair QL, eh.




From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 15:59:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FTP Mirror Sites and CDROMs
Date: 28 Sep 1994 15:59:00 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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Dear friends,

I suppose I knew that this newsgroup would not last more than a week
before it deteriorated into a hot debate over software distribution
policies.  I have received numerous personal message to the effect of
"you are shooting yourself in the foot", "please reconsider!", "why
don't you charge for support?", "why don't you set up a 900 number?",
etc etc.  I don't have time to respond to each of these personally,
so I trust their senders are reading this.

The idea of this newsgroup is to exchange useful information about Kermit
software.  Rather than the developers and tech support people answering
questions on a one-to-one basis (which, of course, we still do), we hoped
that also answering them in a public forum would increase our productivity
and yours -- allowing us to spend less time on tech support and more on
development, since more people would see each question and answer, and
allowing users to see answers to their questions in many cases before they
even asked them.  Meanwhile, we have been working hard on new releases of
all the major Kermit programs, and the last thing we -- or you, dear
readers -- need is to be drawn into yet another endless debate over our
software distribution policies, a debate which has already run its course
many times over on other newsgroups.

Please pay attention to the following points:

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.  There is nothing new going on.  Look at the
copyright notice (this one is from C-Kermit):

  Copyright (C) 1985, 1994, Trustees of Columbia University in the City of
  New York.  The C-Kermit software may not be, in whole or in part,
  licensed or sold for profit as a software product itself, nor may it be
  included in or distributed with commercial products or otherwise
  distributed by commercial concerns to their clients or customers without
  written permission of the Office of Kermit Development and Distribution,
  Columbia University.  This copyright notice must not be removed,
  altered, or obscured.

What does this mean?  It does NOT mean that there cannot be ftp mirror
sites.  There have ALWAYS been ftp mirror sites.  It DOES mean that our
software cannot be SOLD by anyone without our permission.  This is nothing
more than common sense.  When the proprietor of a particular ftp site
posts a public message saying "Due to Columbia's restrictive prohibitions
we are removing all Kermit software from our server", think about what
they are really saying: "Because Columbia University won't let us copy
their copyrighted software, without their permission, onto our CDROM which
we sell, we are taking it off our ftp server, which also serves as the
master for our CDROM."  Quite honestly, and with no intention of offending
any particular, this means that they are not willing or able to set up
special procedures for making CDROMs that are not wholesale copies of
their ftp directories.

We have not asked ANYBODY to remove Kermit software from their ftp sites.

But, as I have stated repeatedly, if you get Kermit software from one of
these ftp mirror sites, and you have problems with it, it is very likely
going to be difficult for us to help you with your problems because we
have no control over those sites and we do not know, and do not have the
time to learn, which files, which versions, are there and how they might
have been reorganized, renamed, or edited, and even if we discover
problems with the Kermit software at these sites, we have no way to
correct them, and even if we did, it would be a waste of our time.

If, however, you get Kermit software from Columbia by ftp or by mail
order, then we can help you because we KNOW what we have, and if there are
mistakes we can correct them.

Thus, we RECOMMEND that if you are ftp'ing Kermit software from somewhere,
that somewhere should be kermit.columbia.edu.

This is not to say that some of the ftp sites, such as Garbo and Simtel
(which I have never had the time to check out personally, because I have
too many other, higher-priority demands on my time), are not 100% faithful
and up-to-date and perhaps even carry some added value.  If you find an
ftp site other than Columbia that you can trust, fine -- use it.  But
before you come to us for help, make sure the problems you are
experiencing were not introduced at the mirror site.

Now, about CDROMs...  No, you can't put our software on a CDROM and sell
it without our permission, period.  You can't put ANYBODY'S copyrighted
software on a CDROM and sell it without permission of the copyright
holder.

They key word here is "permission".  Just ask.  We'll discuss it and see
how mutually beneficial terms can be arranged.  And in fact that is exactly
what is happening in numerous cases, including with Garbo and Simtel, and
some of the Linux distributors, etc.  We don't need to flood the airwaves
with inflammatory postings based upon incomplete knowledge.

Just remember that without an agreement that is beneficial to both the
CDROM maker and Columbia, the CDROM maker gets the money and we get the
extra work, AND we lose income we might otherwise have had.

I appreciate the many suggestions about how we can make the money we need,
but we already know our options.  Please remember that Kermit software
comes from a University and our "business" operates under constraints that
you are not familiar with, and you don't need to be.

As an end-user, you can get Kermit software, with quality control, with
support, all free (unless of course you elect to purchase the
documentation, which we view as a good investment -- it saves you time,
gives you quick access to all the features of the software, frees up our
time for more productive work, and helps pay for our continued development
and support efforts).

As an entrepreneur, however, if you want to make money from our work, you
have to give something back, and you have to discuss this with us and
reach an agreement before you can go ahead.

If there are still people who believe that we should place no restrictions
on the commercial redistribution of our software, just remember the story
of the goose that laid the golden egg.  I would like to think that there
are people who would like to see the Kermit effort continue, and these
people have to understand that we need to fund our work, and we want to do
this in the way that is least painful and offensive to the END USER.

If, however, these constant attacks on our policies continue, forces will
eventually come into play that will compel us to take a more rigid stance,
or shut down altogether, and everybody will lose.  So please, let us run
our own "business", use our software in good health, and let's put this
newsgroup back as it was last week -- a forum for the exchange of useful
information.

Thanks.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 03:33:50 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Sep 94 09:33:50 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <3699u3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36arh5$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 33
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36arh5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>,
> Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>The notice
>>says, amongst other things, a person/organization can't redistribute
>>the Columbia material for profit etc without prior clearance. That
>>seems to be very reasonable to me.
>>    Guess what's lacking about the Simtel CDROM distribution
>>process.
>
> The part that I don't understand is how the CDROM distribution is
> somehow different from the profit made by the internet providers
> and phone companies when someone arranges to ftp the files directly
> from Columbia.
    <part omitted>
> Les Mikesell
>   [e-mail]
--------
    The CDROMs are sold for profit, based on the contained programs.
The attraction is not a nifty logo on the CDROM or fancy box or terrific
browser program, though such items are worthy of charging if desired, but
the target objects themselves, without which there won't be much attraction.
That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others
and covered by copyright restrictions.
    BBS operators making a profit offering the programs would be much
the same as the CDROM case, in my view.
    Internet service providers are selling time on their wires,
irrespective of the files or programs used at the other end of the wire.
    The copyright restriction says you can't make money selling our
product without our permission.
    Guess who is going to all kinds of trouble to ensure that the programs
remain free?
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 17:03:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Newer QL-Kermit?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 17:03:34 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 20
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In article <[e-mail]> Chris
Milton <[e-mail]> writes:
> Has anyone written a newer QL-Kermit for the
> Sinclair Quantum Leap computer?
> The QL-Kermit versions available from kermit.columbia.edu
> use proprietary versions of BCPL and C, and
> have few of the currently supported features
> found in C-Kermit and MS-Kermit.
>
Not to my knowledge.  And knowing nothing about the QL,
I'd recommend -- if it does not have a restrictive memory
architecture and if it does have a C compiler -- adapting
C-Kermit.  If anybody is interested in pursuing this,
get in touch with me and I'll help get you started.

- Frank
x
x
x


From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 17:46:28 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Solved Kermit download problem, sort of
Date: 28 Sep 1994 17:46:28 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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Roland Kwee <[e-mail]> writes:
>  ... I reduced the packet size all the way down to 500
> bytes and 1 window. No problem for a file up to 1.2 MB sofar, and a
> throughput of 1029 cps. (on a 14.4KB V.42b connection). It seems to be a
> problem of buffer overflow, either in the remote cisco terminal server,
> or in the remote modem.
>
As you may know, Cisco terminal servers (certain models) support hardware
flow control in one direction only,  In any case, they must be configured
to use it, and so must the attached modem.

> By the way, on the cisco, I do a 'terminal download', on the remote
> Sun, I don't use stty to set crtscts, and the remote Kermit (189)
> says 'no modem signals available'.
>
Right -- it's on a pty.  Since you are coming in through a terminal server,
you should also tell the remote Kermit to "set flow none" since TCP/IP is
handling the flow control.

> Here is my question. What do you know about the packet size used by
> between the modems? This may be factor both in preventing buffer overflow
> at the remote cisco, and in the ultimate throughput. Using a small packet
> size less than 500 bytes, but just filling a modem block might be just
> very efficient. And the difference in result between my 200 and 250 byte
> packet size may be caused by the modems too.
>
Maybe -- you have many factors in play here: two modems, the serial side
of the terminal server, the configuration of the two modems, the
configuration of the terminal server port, the network side of the
terminal server, the telnet server on the host, the pty driver on the
host, etc -- you could spend a week or two trying to pin down exactly
where the bottleneck is.  And then you would know about only one
connection (on a given day!) out of an infinite number of possible
connections.

> So far, in the Kermit books, the issue of the terminal server is
> mentioned in passing, and the issue of the block protocol between the
> MNP5 and V42b modems not at all.
>
There is not much point in second-guessing the modems.  A detailed study
of the various MNP levels (at least ten at last count), V.42 and V.42bis,
and their interaction with the various modulation techniques as
implemented in a wide variety of chips from different manufacturers, as
programmed and packaged by an even wider variety of manufacturers, and the
specific interactions of modem A with modem B over a connection with
particular characteristics (noise, etc), transmitting a particular type of
data, would reveal very little that could be applied in the general case.
Even to the extent that MNPx and V.y are standards, their particular
implementation -- and variable parameters -- are completely unpredictable
from modem to modem, and from PROM version to PROM version in the same
modem make and model.  Some modems even have... bugs.

> Another, related issue, is that there are rumours that the modems
> actually connect SYNCHRONOUSLY.  They don't transmit the start and stop
> bits. As a result, the theoretical 100 percent throughput of a 14.4KB
> modem is not 1440 cps, but 1800 cps. Do you know anything about this?
>
Yes, the higher modem standards do this.  But the serial interfaces, in and
out, are still asynchronous, 10 bits per character.  And there is some
overhead to synchronous connections too, though generally far less than the
20% overhead added by start & stop bits.  Plus the overhead added by the
HDLC-like error-correction protocols used by V.42, etc.

> Another issue that may be very important, but is not in the Kermit books,
> is what I call the size of the pipeline. With a packet size of p, and
> window size of w, there is a maximum of p times w bytes at any given
> instant in buffers between the two kermits. I guess that if my
> system administrator says that I should reduce the blocksize to 1000
> to prevent problems with the cisco, I should make p * w < 1000.
>
Correct.  But most modern Kermit programs will take care of this
themselves automatically, after the first few buffer overflows.  But of
course, you can get better performance if you set the optimal limit
beforehand, assuming you can find out what it is, and then it doesn't
change out from under you during the course of the transfer.

> If the flow control is not perfect between all components between
> the two kermits, those kermits maintain their own handshake with the
> ACK packets. To be absolutely safe, I should find the smallest buffer
> and keep p * w smaller than that buffer. And that buffer could well
> be the block size used by the modems.
>
Or any other limiting device.

> Sorry for my rambling style, but I am very excited that after so many
> months of struggling I finally get good results.
>
While it is sometimes helpful to understand the issues in elaborate
detail, in the final analysis there are limitations on every connection,
and the limitations apply to all protocols that want to use it.  The
easiest way to cope with a difficult connection is to (a) first, ensure
that you have the most effective possible means of flow control in effect
at every juncture of the connection, and then (b) conduct a few
experiments regarding packet length and window size, and use whatever
combination results in the highest throughput.

If the efficiency is still really bad, and it is a connection that will be
used a lot, it makes sense to devote some time to isolating and clearing
the bottleneck.  In a connection like this one, it is very likely to be
the buffering and/or flow-control capacity of the terminal server.  Over
the past years, I've done detailed evaluations of terminal servers and
found just about every one of them lacking in some crucial area: flow
control and/or buffer size and/or transparency.  There is also a tendency
for newer modems to be buggy, and there is also a good chance that your
line is noisy -- if your modem has a "retrain" light, keep an eye on it.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 19:42:42 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Les Moss)
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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In article <35rc73$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck) writes:
>From: [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck)
>Subject: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
>Date: 22 Sep 1994 07:37:07 GMT

>>I recently got a new PC. I transferred Kermit and all the scripts
>>it uses from my old to my new system.
>[......]
>>On my old system (286, EMS, 16550A) this worked perfect. On my
>>new system (486, PCI, EMM386, 16550A) the computer hangs as soon
>>as the line is dropped after filling in all info.


>>Are there any known problems with PCI systems, 16550A's and Kermit?

The problem is probably your I/O chip which incorrectly emulates a
16550 UART.  Here is a description of the problem and a source of fixes:

SMC 37C665 SUPER I/O CONTROLLER SERIAL PORT FAILURES 3-22-94

An incompatibility has been discovered between the Standard Microsystems
Corporation FDC37C665 Super I/O controller serial port and various
communication programs and serial port drivers.

DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM

The SMC part powers up in the 16450 UART non-FIFO mode and is later
programmed by serial port drivers or communication programs "on the fly" to
operate in the 16550 UART mode with FIFOs.  If data has been received while
in the 16450 mode (be it power up garbage or valid data), it gets placed
into a holding buffer and the character pending bit of the status register
gets set.  Once the FDC37C665 is put in 16550 mode the holding register and
character pending status bit cannot be cleared.  Communication applications
see the bit set in the status register and begin reading the FIFO in an
attempt to empty it and clear the status bit.  The result is the status
register never gets cleared and the communication application is stuck in a
loop trying to clear it.

END USER IMPLICATIONS

Potentially, any application or driver that makes use of the serial port
FIFOs may exhibit this failure symptom.  Failures have been reported by
users running Microsoft Windows For Workgroups V3.11 TERMINAL.EXE
application with an external modem attached to the on-board serial port.
One failing scenario starts when the PC system is powered-up prior to the
modem being powered up and invalid characters get placed into the 16450
holding register.

The problem has also been reported when running Microsoft Windows V3.1 and
using a printer connected to the serial port.  The system experiences a
"lock -up" condition.

The problem can also show up while running DOS based communication programs
such as Procomm+ or Crosstalk.

SOLUTION

There are drivers available that allow error free operation in Windows for
Workgroups, Windows 3.1, and DOS .  The "new" drivers simply clear the 16450
holding register prior to switching from the 16450 mode to the 16550 mode.
There is no performance degradation experienced when using the "new"
drivers.  Please refer to the following description of the drivers.  These
drivers have been through regression testing and are known to be "robust".
They are available on the Intel BBS (916-356-3600) under file name
SMC_FIFO.EXE (a self-extracting ZIP file).  SMC_FIFO.EXE contains the
following files:

FILE NAME       OPERATING SYSTEM        COMMENTS

README.TXT      N/A                     A copy of this text file.

SERIAL.386      Windows for Workgroups  MS WfW serial port driver.
SERIAL.TXT      N/A                     Install instructions for SERIAL.386.

COMM.DRV        Windows 3.1             MS Win3.1 comm port driver.
COMM.TXT        N/A                     Install instructions for COMM.DRV.

COMS.EXE        DOS                     Executable file to be run prior to
                                        starting DOS communications S/W.
COMS.TXT        N/A                     Readme file for COMS.EXE.


These drivers are also available on the SMC BBS (516-273-4936) and the
Microsoft BBS (206-936-6735) under the following file names:

FILE NAME       OPERATING SYSTEM        COMMENTS

WG1001.EXE      Windows for Workgroups  Self-extracting zip file.  This
                                        driver is currently being shipped
                                        with the OEM versions of WFW.


COMM.ZIP        Windows 3.1


UART550.EXE     DOS                     Self-extracting zip file.  The
                                        file can be added to a batch file
                                        to run prior to running the DOS
                                        communication program.


In the May/June time frame, SMC will release a new stepping of the
component that fixes this problem.  We will use this new stepping of the
component on new product builds when it becomes available.


From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 20:52:40 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 28 Sep 1994 16:52:40 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
Lines: 62
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <36cl2o$[e-mail]>
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In article <36a9p5$[e-mail]>,

:This is sad, because the slick software industry has put forward the
:idea that all one needs to do is click on something and the magic is
:unleashed, which is completely untrue and misleading in the case of
:communications software.

Those of us writing and giving away software are doing a good job of
making it easier to use, too. My modem accepts incoming calls and
establishes a connection in the appropriate way, and tells me what it is
while keeping my DTE at 38400 all the time. I have ripped autobauding
code out of my getty and every other program because "magic happens."

:                          They raise the expectations of users unreasonably
:high.

Nope they/we raise the expectations of users *reasonably* high.

:       There is no way that communications software can know what is going
:on outside the computer, and I maintain that there is no way that it can
:even test for this in a nonobtrusive, nondestructive fashion.

You may maintain that, but if Kermit doesn't start negotiating all this
window size and number of windows stuff between modern implementations,
then people will go to some program which does "work right" in most
cases. The idea of sending a "here's the packet size I can talk and my
windows limit, and my install file says eight bit clean" doesn't sound
destructive to me, and currect versions of Kermit smile and send back a
"say what?" message.

:I think that those of us on this newsgroup are capable of entering the
:two or three commands needed to make Kermit transfers default any way we
:want them to.  The question is what the DEFAULT defaults should be for
:somebody who doesn't know anything and swallows the hype.  I think the
:conservative ones are still the most appropriate.

The user community keeps "raising the bar" on ease of use. no one is
complaining about the defaults, they're complaining about having to tune
them instead of having them negotiated. About having to set buffer size
instead of having the program try to get memory and using it well,
instead of using a reasonable rule of thumb instead of "one miniscule
buffer." Have the sender start with three 1k buffers and tune up or down
until a buffer take about 1500-2000ms to send or the error rate goes up.

The way to fund the Kermit support is to make the program less arcane,
have it work right more of the time, and use the saved time to program
improvements. Restricting distribution so average users don't get it
with popular collections is not going to increase usage, and if there is
a user who isn't aware that s/he should get newer versions of
everything, they're hiding.

In the last week you have gotten two major sites to stop distributing
Kermit. You may think the world will beat a path to your ftp site now,
but I bet people will just take another program off the site they know,
or the CD of the collection from that site, and if it's shareware at
least a few will register. Chuck Forsberg (sp?) must be dancing in
glee.

--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 22:34:17 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:34:17 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 30
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <36cr19$[e-mail]>
References: <36cl2o$[e-mail]>
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36cl2o$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Bill Davidsen) writes:
> In article <36a9p5$[e-mail]>,
> ...
> The user community keeps "raising the bar" on ease of use. no one is
> complaining about the defaults, they're complaining about having to tune
> them instead of having them negotiated. About having to set buffer size
> instead of having the program try to get memory and using it well,
> instead of using a reasonable rule of thumb instead of "one miniscule
> buffer." Have the sender start with three 1k buffers and tune up or down
> until a buffer take about 1500-2000ms to send or the error rate goes up.
>
Sure it would be great if we could get it to work automatically every time.
Perhaps I downplayed what it already does automatically.  Packet size and
window size are indeed negotiated, and the actual packet length and window
size varies during the transfer according to prevailing conditions, but
never above the negotiated lengths.

Parity (Even, Odd, or Mark) is discovered automatically by the protocol.

Timers are a bit trickier and need more work to be optimized automatically
on a dynamic basis as conditions change.

Control-character unprefixing cannot be negotiated.  That's because neither
Kermit program knows anything about what boxes are lying between the two
Kermit programs, and so can never say with any certainty that a particular
control character is safe.  You can't send a test pattern either, without
the risk of breaking or hopelessly wedging the connection.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 21:32:09 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo
Date: 28 Sep 1994 21:32:09 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
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Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
:Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo.  The

The negotiations to resolve the situation between Garbo and Columbia
have now broken down.  The MsKermit material has been permanently
withdrawn from Garbo.  From now on I am anwering no questions
relating to this matter or MsKermit or its availablity.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 21:57:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (James Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: info utilities and old Kermits
Date: 28 Sep 1994 21:57:30 GMT
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa
Lines: 12
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I use a certain "information utility," and in the past I used a different
one (it cost too much).  I'd love to use Kermit for file transfers to/from
it--end-of-line conversion for text files is a pain--but the utility has
a very old, limited Kermit, and despite repeated pleas has no apparent
intention of upgrading.  Does anyone keep track of what services out
there support up-to-date Kermit file transfer?

    James Jones

Opinions herein are those of the author, and not necessarily those of
any organization.


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 00:34:28 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Honeycutt)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 00:34:28 GMT
Organization: UNC Asheville University Computing
Lines: 12
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I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading
a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge
receiving it, sends another packet, etc.

Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.

(BTW, the person who established this newsgroup had a good idea).

Mike Honeycutt  UNC Asheville University Computing  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 01:47:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 01:47:53 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 23
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In article <36d22k$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Honeycutt)
writes:
> I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading
> a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge
> receiving it, sends another packet, etc.
>
> Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
> without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
> are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
> the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.
>
No.  Noise is not the only reason for having packets with error-checking
and sequencing information.  I'd go into detail here, but I'm kind of
tired, and you can read about this in any networking text -- flow control
at various levels, presentation functions, etc.  And don't forget that
errors can occur in many places other than the communication medium --
lost interrupts in a flaky PC, etc.

> (BTW, the person who established this newsgroup had a good idea).
>
I'm beginning to wonder...

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 08:43:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Kooijman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped)
Date: 29 Sep 1994 08:43:37 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Lines: 55
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[e-mail] (Les Moss) writes:

>DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM

>The SMC part powers up in the 16450 UART non-FIFO mode and is later
>programmed by serial port drivers or communication programs "on the fly" to
>operate in the 16550 UART mode with FIFOs.  If data has been received while
>in the 16450 mode (be it power up garbage or valid data), it gets placed
>into a holding buffer and the character pending bit of the status register
>gets set.  Once the FDC37C665 is put in 16550 mode the holding register and
>character pending status bit cannot be cleared.  Communication applications
>see the bit set in the status register and begin reading the FIFO in an
>attempt to empty it and clear the status bit.  The result is the status
>register never gets cleared and the communication application is stuck in a
>loop trying to clear it.

In my case Kermit started up just fine, apparently using the chips in FIFO
mode, run a script, hung up the line and then failed.
It seems to me that after the hang-up Kermit is reinitializing the ports
all over again without testing first while the chips were already in FIFO mode.

BTW Kermit 3.14 (I got a beta version to test and they asked me not
to distribute, so don't ask) works fine, but I don't understand Joe's remarks
that only 2x4 cures helped. I don't think this is such a big problem with
the chips.

>There are drivers available that allow error free operation in Windows for
>Workgroups, Windows 3.1, and DOS .  The "new" drivers simply clear the 16450
>holding register prior to switching from the 16450 mode to the 16550 mode.

Is it just me or is this a wise thing to do anyway?
You'll lose a character I guess but you are switching modes and not picking
up on an existing communication.
BTW why doesn't the computer (or chips) come back to the living when
a character arrives that CAN be retrieved?

>They are available on the Intel BBS (916-356-3600) under file name
>SMC_FIFO.EXE (a self-extracting ZIP file).  SMC_FIFO.EXE contains the
>following files:

Could somebody place these files up for ftp somewhere?
Please, please.

>In the May/June time frame, SMC will release a new stepping of the
>component that fixes this problem.  We will use this new stepping of the
>component on new product builds when it becomes available.

I purchased my computer and card in September. I can't imagine my supplier
has a backlog of old components (or they are buying them cheap), so has there
been a delay in getting these new components out?

Thanks for the info!


Richard.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 09:52:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.archives.msdos.d
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:52:16 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 32
Message-Id: <36e2og$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36arh5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
:    The CDROMs are sold for profit, based on the contained programs.
:The attraction is not a nifty logo on the CDROM or fancy box or terrific
:browser program, though such items are worthy of charging if desired, but
:the target objects themselves, without which there won't be much attraction.
:That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others
:and covered by copyright restrictions.

Partly, but it is much more than that.  For example SimTel (and
Garbo if we'll have a CDROM) sell the directory arrangements, the
index files, the huge amount of work done in preselection, the virus
and integrity testing performed on the material.  Of course those
could not exists without the existence of the actual authors'
product, but saying "trading for profit in works copyrighted by
others and covered by copyright restrictions" is far too narrow a
view to this issue as I have tried to point out in private
conversation.

You have all the right to forbid us having your material on our
archives as a result of our material going to CDROMs.  That is
unequivocal, and we abide without a protest in that respect.  But
presenting us as commercially utilizing the work others is
inaccurate and highly oversimplified.  There is a considerable value
added in maintaining and making such colections.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 04:00:44 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Tony Lill)
Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 20 Sep 1994 18:28:06 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News Admin)
Organization: A. J. Lill Consultants, Cambridge, Ont.
References: <[e-mail]> <35n9jm$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:00:44 GMT
Lines: 36
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>>>>> "Frank" == Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> writes:
In article <35n9jm$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:


    Frank> In article <[e-mail]>
    Frank> [e-mail] (John Jamulla) writes:
    >> Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line?
    >>
    Frank> Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs.
    Frank> For some the answer is yes, for others it is no.  In UNIX,
    Frank> of course, the answer is no.  A fundamental aspect of the
    Frank> UNIX operating system is that when a process exits, all of
    Frank> its open files are closed.  There is no way around it.  But
    Frank> this is not really the question you wanted to ask.

Right answer, but wrong reason. I use a kermit script to automate
dialing up my IP providor on my UNIX box, and then it runs a script to
start up the slip link. When the slip link is up, the is another
process holding the device open, but much to my chagrin, when I exited
Kermit, it went out ot it's way to hang up the modem. What I ended up
doing was at the end ot the shell script that started slip, I grabbed
kermit's pid from the lock file and killed process (after playing with
the lock files so nothing else tried to go for the tty). This left the
device open, and slip running.

It would be nice if there was a cleaner way to exit Kermit without it
hanging up. If someone else is using kermit at the same time my slip
link comes up, they will be most dis-pleased! Now that I've grabbed
the source for C-Kermit 188, maybe I'll hack it in.

--
Tony Lill,                         [e-mail]
President, A. J. Lill Consultants                 [phone]
539 Grand Valley Dr., Cambridge, Ont.    fax/data [phone]

"Welcome to All Things UNIX, where if it's not UNIX, it's CRAP!"

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 12:46:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
Date: 29 Sep 1994 12:46:27 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <36ecv3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Tony Lill) writes:
> It would be nice if there was a cleaner way to exit Kermit without it
> hanging up. If someone else is using kermit at the same time my slip
> link comes up, they will be most dis-pleased! Now that I've grabbed
> the source for C-Kermit 188, maybe I'll hack it in.
>
When Kermit exits (_exit's), all open file descriptors are closed.  In
most UNIX operating systems, if you close a file descriptor on a tty
device, it turns off DTR, either momentarily or until the next open, thus
causing any attached modem to hang up unless it has been configured to
ignore DTR.  If you are able to prevent that from happening by having
another process use the same file descriptor, fine, but I can't swear that
this will work in all UNIX implementations -- any close vs last close, etc.

What you might be experiencing is a hangup due to Kermit sending the *modem*
command to hang up: <sec>plus-plus-plus<sec>ATH0<cr>.  To defeat this, all
you need to do is tell Kermit to "set dial modem-hangup off".

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 13:31:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 29 Sep 1994 13:31:31 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <36efjj$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Yes, indeed, some sites like Garbo and Simtel add value to their
collections by adding an index, or scanning for viruses, or packaging
the files up in different ways, before copying them to CDROM.

But I'm willing to bet that the majority of CDROMs out there are nothing
more than get-rich-quick schemes.  Start up gopher in the evening, come
back in the morning, copy everything that came in to a tape, take it to a
fulfillment house that will cut 1000 CDROMs from it for a dollar each,
then advertise them for sale at $20 per.  Anybody can do it.

How do we tell the difference?  Even when a company adds value to our
product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours?

Finally, once again and for the last time:  We, Columbia University,
did not and never have told Garbo, Simtel, or any other site to remove
Kermit software from their archives.  These sites elected to remove
Kermit software for their own reasons, having nothing to do with our
policy -- or lack thereof -- toward ftp mirror sites.

I posted a long message about this yesterday, explaining our position in
detail, but Keith Peterson (of Simtel) was kind enough to point out that I
had mistakenly capitalized "World" in the Distribution field, and so many
sites might have rejected it, since the planets did not match.  I hesitate
to post it again lest the embers be fanned again into flames.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Wed Sep 28 11:29:13 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL
Date: 28 Sep 1994 20:59:13 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
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Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:

: >   Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2
: >
: > MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to
: > work with BNU loaded on COM2:.
: >
: > Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way?
: -------------
:     If it works then the answer is no problem. Be sure to tell MSK
: to use a BIOS serial port (SET PORT BIOSn, n=1..4) rather than the hardware
: port (COMx) so there will be no bus wars about hardware ownership. Your
: example suggests that you told Kermit to use the hardware, which it is
: able to do better than Fossil drivers. Since MSK tries to restore hardware
: to its pre-use state (but leaves DTR high and the speed where Kermit last
: used it, etc) you probably got away with stealing the port from BNU; no
: guarantees that this always works.
:     The BNU docs should say that all applications should use it via
: Bios serial port Int 14h functions. I don't know if they do.

Hmm, I'll check with David Nugent (BNU author) about it, as SET PORT BIOS 2
hasn't worked for me when BNU was loaded.

BTW, MS-Kermit has been great for logging modem connect failure diagnostics
when running a bbs.

--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 13:28:02 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Brainwave Surfer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 94 09:28:02 -0400
References: <[e-mail]> <36cncp$[e-mail]>
Organization: Medical College of Virginia
Lines: 12
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I can see both sides of this, Columbia U's, and us...  I still mourn the
loss of Kermit from the Net.  However, will the Columbia U's FTP site still
be open?  Do they have a Gopher server up yet?

Jim

         /^^^\   \ /   Jim Agnew         | [e-mail]  (Internet)
        /      >  ||   Neurosurgery,     | AGNEW@VCUVAX        (Bitnet)
   /\_/     '   \  /   MCV-VCU           | This disc will self destruct in
 /________________>    Richmond, VA, USA | five seconds.  Good luck, Jim..."
    *** Error, brain bugcheck, mind rebooted...

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 15:22:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 15:22:39 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <36em3v$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brainwave
Surfer) writes:
> I can see both sides of this, Columbia U's, and us...  I still mourn the
> loss of Kermit from the Net.  However, will the Columbia U's FTP site still
> be open?  Do they have a Gopher server up yet?
>
Come on, everybody -- nothing has changed.  Of course Kermit software is
available via ftp, just as it always was.  Once again, for the umpteenth
time, nobody has told ANYBODY to take Kermit software off their ftp sites.

Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier
messages, some of which might not have been delivered.  The two sites who
posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their
archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our
software on CDROM.  There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit
from their ftp sites.  Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with
it.  Our policies have not changed.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 15:04:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Fozziliny Moo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:04:00 -0600
Organization: XMission Public Access Internet (801 539 0900)
Lines: 23
Message-Id: <36el10$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: xmission
Summary: Need recomendation on Net card.
Keywords: TCPIP, MS-Kermit, Ethernet
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


I need some recomendations for ethernet cards for PC's to connect a few
machines to a thin-coax feed which goes to a couple of Unix boxes (AIX,
but that probably doesn't matter).

I've worked with MS-Kermit over Novell Netware on several occassions, but
now I am working in the absence of a PC network medium and would like to
use the thin coax just to Telnet (via MS-Kermit) to the Unix machines.

Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just load
IPX? Or do I use a different driver software? And then, if I understand
correctly, upon knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I
can just go into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX.

If someone can confirm or correct my assumptions here, I would appreciate it.
(Joe maybe?)

-Fozz (D L Barton)

--
[e-mail]---------In Real Life: Doran L. Barton-----------------
``Praise to the man who has commuted with Jehovah.''
    -A common misconception in Christian theology.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 02:20:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 94 08:20:03 MDT
References: <36a12c$[e-mail]> <36a9p5$[e-mail]> <36cl2o$[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 55
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36cl2o$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen) writes:
> In article <36a9p5$[e-mail]>,
>
> :This is sad, because the slick software industry has put forward the
> :idea that all one needs to do is click on something and the magic is
> :unleashed, which is completely untrue and misleading in the case of
> :communications software.
>
> Those of us writing and giving away software are doing a good job of
> making it easier to use, too. My modem accepts incoming calls and
> establishes a connection in the appropriate way, and tells me what it is
> while keeping my DTE at 38400 all the time. I have ripped autobauding
> code out of my getty and every other program because "magic happens."
>
> :                          They raise the expectations of users unreasonably
> :high.
>
> Nope they/we raise the expectations of users *reasonably* high.
>
> :       There is no way that communications software can know what is going
> :on outside the computer, and I maintain that there is no way that it can
> :even test for this in a nonobtrusive, nondestructive fashion.
>
> You may maintain that, but if Kermit doesn't start negotiating all this
> window size and number of windows stuff between modern implementations,
> then people will go to some program which does "work right" in most
> cases. The idea of sending a "here's the packet size I can talk and my
> windows limit, and my install file says eight bit clean" doesn't sound
> destructive to me, and currect versions of Kermit smile and send back a
> "say what?" message.
    May I interject a little reality check here? Thanks.
    You are inventing straw men, those windows things. What you clearly
do not know is the protocol negotiates such items to the maximum common
denominator of both sides. That's exactly what you want isn't it: max
capability, automatically.
    You seem to think that a person can Command a comms channel into
submission ("here's the packet size...eight bit clean") and it will work.
I wish you were correct so we could have less code and commands to give.
As we have been trying to explain, there are situations where one can't
run an automatic check, 8-bit cleanliness being one of them, buffer capacity
being another. Things break outside of the programs, they really do.
    So what's your real complaint?
    Well, I suspect it might be "It doesn't go at warp speed in MY
particular situation right out of the box." Right? Do you ever have to
adjust any comms program at all? No boxes to check, etc? What do you tell
customers when the program doesn't work in their nebulous environment?
    Kermit settings are shipped to work the first time, which I presume
is a worthy goal of any program. Working faster (but one goal, another being
reliably) is available to anyone who reads a few pages and tries things in
their particular enviroment. And we provide the tools and documentation to
cope with a wide variety of "their particular environments", yet you complain
about that.

    Joe D.


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 06:00:38 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Bangert)
Date: 29 Sep 94 11:00:38 CDT
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Timo Salmi ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo.  The
: files have not yet been physically deleted, but their read
: permissions have been removed.  For all details of the situation
: please see the comp.protocols.kermit.misc newsgroup.  Please do not
: direct any queries about this to Garbo moderators.  Kermit is
: distributed from the Columbia University.  The support person there
: is Frank da Cruz [e-mail].

I just scanned all the messages on this group -- could not find an
announcement.  Could someone point me to it?

Thanks,

Jeff Bangert, Computer Center, University of Kansas
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 18:10:26 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: MS-Kermit question
Date: 29 Sep 1994 18:10:26 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 26
Message-Id: <36evui$[e-mail]>
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Hi,

  This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do
about it:  Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed).  Is there
anyway to suppress this?   That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET
character?

  The reason I would like to see this is that I use the Ctrl key alot.
I hold down the Ctrl key using my left hand and somtimes press another
character using my right hand (e.g., Ctrl-k).  Then I will move my right
hand and press `enter'.  However, sometimes my left hand has not fully
released the Ctrl key yet and as a result, I get Ctrl-ENTER which Kermit
maps to a ^J.

  This might be a silly issue for most but I find it frustrating.

Thanks,
--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: [e-mail]
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 19:39:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Date: 29 Sep 1994 19:39:46 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 28
Message-Id: <36f562$[e-mail]>
References: <36evui$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36evui$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
>   This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do
> about it:  Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed).  Is there
> anyway to suppress this?   That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET
> character?
>
Type "show key"
Kermit says: "Push key to be shown:"
Push Ctrl-Enter
Kermit says:
Scan code \5386 is defined as
Ascii char: ^J \10

Now you see the scan code and the definition.  Now use SET KEY
to change the definition:

set key \5386 \13

(13 is the ASCII code for carriage return).

Put the "set key" command in your MSCUSTOM.INI file if you always want
this definition in effect.

Do the same thing for any other keys or key combos that you would like
to remap.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 18:45:41 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:45:41 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <36em3v$[e-mail]>
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier
>messages, some of which might not have been delivered.  The two sites who
>posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their
>archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our
>software on CDROM.  There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit
>from their ftp sites.  Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with
>it.  Our policies have not changed.

Frank, this is not true.  SimTel does NOT sell programs.  The CD-ROMs
provide DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS and the proceeds are used to support
the cost of maintaining the collection and providing a site for them to
be distributed free of charge to users on the Internet.  Without this
income SimTel would cease to exist.

There are 11,000 programs on the CDROMs made from the SimTel collection.
Beaking that down, the cost of distributing each program is US$0.003177.
For those not familar with U.S. currancy, that is 3/10ths of ONE CENT!
It takes 100 cents to make one dollar.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Tue Sep 27 16:00:11 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Davidson)
Subject: Kermit for SUN UNIX ?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Originator: lsl@erredfs1
Sender: [e-mail] (Lisa Paterno)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erredfs1.er.att.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 16:00:11 GMT
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    The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or
binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/
--

The Opinions Expressed Are Soley Mine And Do Not
In Any Way Express The Opinions Of My Employer.


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 14:57:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL
Date: 30 Sep 1994 00:27:18 +0930
Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
Lines: 33
Message-Id: <36ekke$[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:

: >   Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2
: >
: > MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to
: > work with BNU loaded on COM2:.
: >
: > Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way?
: -------------
:     If it works then the answer is no problem. Be sure to tell MSK
: to use a BIOS serial port (SET PORT BIOSn, n=1..4) rather than the hardware
: port (COMx) so there will be no bus wars about hardware ownership. Your
: example suggests that you told Kermit to use the hardware, which it is
: able to do better than Fossil drivers. Since MSK tries to restore hardware
: to its pre-use state (but leaves DTR high and the speed where Kermit last
: used it, etc) you probably got away with stealing the port from BNU; no
: guarantees that this always works.
:     The BNU docs should say that all applications should use it via
: Bios serial port Int 14h functions. I don't know if they do.
:     Joe D.

I gave using the BIOS serial port a try, using BNU/I=1+ as David Nugent
suggested.

Kermit didn't like BIOS2 at 19200 bps though...

My original means of operation (leaving BNU loaded and running MS-Kermit
on Port 2) seems to work fine.

--
Arthur Marsh, telephone [phone], fax [phone]
               [e-mail], [e-mail]
.endofsig

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 19:02:06 1994
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From: Pedro Ferroni <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: kermit script
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:02:06 -0400
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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I have a kermit version that responds

IBM-PC Kermit-MS v2.29b 19 Feb87

1) Should I get a new one ? (and how)
2) How do I find instructions to set up a scrip so i don't have do enter
password, user id, telent unix, etc every time.

Thanks for the info.

Pedro
Westinghouse Pittsburgh
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 19:31:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ken Pizzini)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 19:31:03 GMT
Organization: What, me?
Lines: 28
Distribution: World
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In article <36d6c9$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <36d22k$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Honeycutt)
>writes:
>> I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading
>> a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge
>> receiving it, sends another packet, etc.
>>
>> Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
>> without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
>> are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
>> the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.
>>
>No.  Noise is not the only reason for having packets with error-checking
>and sequencing information.  I'd go into detail here, but I'm kind of
>tired, and you can read about this in any networking text -- flow control
>at various levels, presentation functions, etc.  And don't forget that
>errors can occur in many places other than the communication medium --
>lost interrupts in a flaky PC, etc.

Also with proper settings kermit does not run in the start-stop mode
described by Honeycutt.  As I understand it, that's what the
"set window-size" command deals with -- you can have as many
as 31 unacknowledged packets pending, so the sender has only
a most negligable delay when checking for ACKs (assuming the
transmission is going smoothly).

        --Ken Pizzini

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 21:08:53 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:08:53 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Mathematics
Lines: 33
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References: <36evui$[e-mail]> <36f562$[e-mail]>
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In article <36f562$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Frank da Cruz) writes:
 : In article <36evui$[e-mail]>
 : [e-mail] writes:
 : >   This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do
 : > about it:  Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed).  Is there
 : > anyway to suppress this?   That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET
 : > character?
 : >
 : Type "show key"
 : Kermit says: "Push key to be shown:"
 : Push Ctrl-Enter
 : Kermit says:
 : Scan code \5386 is defined as
 : Ascii char: ^J \10

This is the obvious thing to do and it is the first thing I thought of.
However, this does not work on my version of MS-Kermit (3.13 patch level 0).
It does not report the scan code for Ctrl-Enter.  It shows:

   Ascii char: ^J  \10 decimal is defined as
   self, no translation.

Was this fixed in a patch?

     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: [e-mail]
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 22:12:13 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:12:13 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 39
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References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith
Petersen) writes:
> Frank, this is not true.  SimTel does NOT sell programs.  The CD-ROMs
> provide DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS and the proceeds are used to support
> the cost of maintaining the collection and providing a site for them to
> be distributed free of charge to users on the Internet.  Without this
> income SimTel would cease to exist.
>
> There are 11,000 programs on the CDROMs made from the SimTel collection.
> Beaking that down, the cost of distributing each program is US$0.003177.
> For those not familar with U.S. currancy, that is 3/10ths of ONE CENT!
> It takes 100 cents to make one dollar.
>
Making every effort to clear the air on a cordial note -- and despite the
appearance of a flame war, we're all friends here...

Keith is correct.  I misspoke if I said that Simtel was selling software.
Organizations like Simtel provide a valuable service, provided they do a
good and consciencious job, as (I am sure) Simtel does.  Unfortunately,
in the case of Kermit, which is not shareware, there is a conflict that
can't be resolved easily or at all.  And so we agree that mail-order
distribution of Kermit software on physical media will be done by Columbia,
or by agreement with Columbia, so we can get the income we need to continue
our work.

I admit, 11,000 software programs for a fraction of a cent each is a pretty
good deal!  But as I said earlier (I hate having to use that phrase all the
time) we can't afford to sell Kermit that inexpensively because we not only
distribute the software, we write it, document it, and provide tech support
for it, and these are labor-intensive jobs.

With shareware, it's a different story -- CDROM distributions such as
Simtel's are perfect for shareware.  All the author has to do is write
the software and then sit back and collect money.  However, despite
suggestions from a few people, I don't think the majority of Kermit users
want to see it turned into shareware, and I'm not sure we could do this
even if you wanted us to, and we wanted to.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 22:13:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for SUN UNIX ?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:13:33 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 11
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul
Davidson) writes:
> The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or
> binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/
>
kermit.columbia.edu:kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz).

- Frank
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 22:18:10 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit script
Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:18:10 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 64
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References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> Pedro Ferroni
<[e-mail]> writes:
> I have a kermit version that responds
> IBM-PC Kermit-MS v2.29b 19 Feb87
> 1) Should I get a new one ? (and how)
>
Yes.  Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin,
binary mode, file msvibm.zip.

> 2) How do I find instructions to set up a scrip so i don't have do enter
> password, user id, telent unix, etc every time.
>
Purchase and read the manual.  It has an entire chapter devoted to script
programming, with plenty of examples (language of your choice):

  Christine M. Gianone, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", Second Edition, Digital
  Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN
  1-55558-082-3.  Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the
  IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette.

  US single-copy price: $34.95; quantity discounts available.  Available
  in computer bookstores or directly from:

    Kermit Development and Distribution
    Columbia University Academic Information Systems
    612 West 115th Street
    New York, NY  10025  USA
    Telephone: (USA) 212 854-3703

  Domestic and overseas orders accepted.  Price: $34.95 (US, Canada, and
  Mexico), $45 elsewhere.  Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or
  prepaid by check in US dollars.  Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn
  on a US bank.  Price includes shipping.  Do not include sales tax.

  You can also order by phone from the publisher, Digital Press /
  Butterworth-Heinemann, with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express:

    [phone] (Woburn, Massachusetts office for USA and Canada)
    [phone] (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada)
    [phone]   (Rushden, England office for Europe)
    [phone] (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand)
    [phone]    (Singapore office for Asia)

  A German-language edition is also available:

    Christine M. Gianone, "MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle
    Kommunikationsprogramm", Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany
    (1991), 414 pages.  Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for
    the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including
    German-language help files.  Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke.  Price:
    DM 69,00.  ISBN 3-88229-006-4.  Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG,
    Helstorfer Strasse 7, D-30625 Hannover.  Tel. [phone],
    Fax. [phone].

  And a French-language edition:

    Christine M. Gianone, "Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi", Heinz Schiefer
    & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages.  Packaged with version 3.11 of
    MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch
    diskette.  Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre.  ISBN 2-901143-20-2.
    Heinz Schiefer & Cie., 45 rue Henri de Regnier, F-78000 Versailles.
    Tel. [phone], Fax. [phone].

- Frank

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 22:22:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:22:52 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 23
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References: <36fad5$[e-mail]>
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In article <36fad5$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
>  : ...
>  : Kermit says:
>  : Scan code \5386 is defined as
>  : Ascii char: ^J \10
>
> This is the obvious thing to do and it is the first thing I thought of.
> However, this does not work on my version of MS-Kermit (3.13 patch level
> 0).  It does not report the scan code for Ctrl-Enter.
>
Oops, silly me!  You're right -- I was using the "other" Enter key.
Sorry.

I think this is a bug, and we'll have to fix it in version 3.14.  I'll
check with Joe.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 18:15:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bo Kullmar)
Subject: A Kermit library for MS-Windows
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: ABC-Klubben
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:15:45 GMT
Lines: 8
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I am looking for a good commercial communication package for MS-Windows
with fast kermit functions. I need a kermit that can use larger packages
than 94 bytes.

Any suggestion? (The Kermit server on the other end is C-Kermit 5A(188)).

--Bo Kullmar


From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 23:04:22 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill West)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: stuttering screen display
Date: 29 Sep 1994 23:04:22 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services   [phone]
Lines: 26
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I just upgraded my modem from a PPI 9600 ext. to a Cardinal ext. 14400
fax/modem and can't quite get the setup right since I have not had to deal
with the high speed features before. I find myself having to manually
refresh the screen constantly since about halfway through changing from one
display to another the screen will freeze up and I can get the display back
by doing a ctrl-R and it will be fine for one or two screen changes such as
reading one or two news articles.

I am running c-kermit 5A(190) BETA.23 but have also tried c-kermit 5A(188).
I have tried serveral differant at command configs and still get the  same
results. What am I missing here? If I hook the 9600 back up it works fine.

Any help or pointers via email or post  would be greatly appreciated since
I have gotten totaly frustrated and out of options and I can't figure out if
it is the modem or kermit.

On downloads the most I have been able to get out of the 14400 is 1200cps
but most of the time it is lower with multiple retries.

--
******************************************************************************
Bill West
Houston TX
email: [e-mail]
******************************************************************************

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 02:46:38 1994
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From: [e-mail] (James Sturdevant)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Date: 30 Sep 1994 02:46:38 GMT
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 15
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Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <36evui$[e-mail]>
: [e-mail] writes:
: >   This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do
: > about it:  Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed).  Is there
: > anyway to suppress this?   That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET
: > character?
: >
[Snip] Advice on redefining keys...

That works on most keys...  Two keys left of the the "dual entry" table are
Ctrl-J/Ctrl-Enter and Esc/Ctrl-[.  I believe that these are the only two (on
standard 101 keyboards) that cannot be independently defined.

JamesS

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 15:12:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Sep 94 21:12:52 MDT
References: <36el10$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 31
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36el10$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Fozziliny Moo) writes:
>
> I need some recomendations for ethernet cards for PC's to connect a few
> machines to a thin-coax feed which goes to a couple of Unix boxes (AIX,
> but that probably doesn't matter).
>
> I've worked with MS-Kermit over Novell Netware on several occassions, but
> now I am working in the absence of a PC network medium and would like to
> use the thin coax just to Telnet (via MS-Kermit) to the Unix machines.
>
> Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just load
> IPX? Or do I use a different driver software? And then, if I understand
> correctly, upon knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I
> can just go into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX.
>
> If someone can confirm or correct my assumptions here, I would appreciate it.
> (Joe maybe?)
---------
Doran,
    I guess you could have asked me directly. The Kermit Project does
not endorse any network adapter. That's a choice well out of our domain.
Any of the three common driver/handler programs: ODI, NDIS, Packet Drivers,
will work with MS-DOS Kermit (NDIS requires the dis_pkt9 shim). If you
are accustomed to ODI then please remember that IPX is just an ODI client,
just the same as Kermit is, side by side. Please see the distribution
file MSKERM.BWR on kermit.columbia.edu, cd kermit/a.
        One more thing. Kermit does NOT contain an Ethernet driver.
Consequently the Packet Driver interrupt has no relation with a hardware IRQ
from a board. Kermit will find a Packet Driver all by itself, or you can
force its attention on one interrupt.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 30 04:29:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:29:01 -0700
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu
Summary: Most BBS-es have old, lame Kermit versions built-in
Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current
discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites.

While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.

Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not
a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners
of zmodem lobbying against it?

Kermit deserves better.

--Roland          email: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Sep 30 04:32:35 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Solved Kermit download problem, sort of
Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:32:35 -0700
Lines: 17
Distribution: World
Message-Id: <36g4d3$[e-mail]>
References: <36ca5k$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>Roland Kwee <[e-mail]> writes:
>>  ... I reduced the packet size all the way down to 500
>> bytes and 1 window. No problem for a file up to 1.2 MB sofar, and a
>> throughput of 1029 cps. (on a 14.4KB V.42b connection). It seems to be a
>> problem of buffer overflow, either in the remote cisco terminal server,
>> or in the remote modem.

(many lines deleted)

Please be informed that my problems seem to be linked to running Kermit
under Linux. When rebooting with DOS on the same hardware, KErmit seems
to be able to download with 1000-byte packets with no problem. Now I am
rather thinking of a problem with Linux instead of with the protocol.

--Roland

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 05:57:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 05:57:14 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Lines: 35
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit:

  Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City
  of New York.  The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared
  without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained,
  except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software
  product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with
  commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to
  their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of
  Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University.

In the process of reviewing programs submitted to the SimTel collection
I have seen many different ways of expressing distribution limitations.
This simple well-worded statement would solve the confrontation between
Columbia, SimTel and Garbo, while keeping the spirit of free distribution
of Kermit.

   You may freely distribute the original [program name] in any way
   you see fit other than selling it.  Users' groups and shareware
   distribution services may charge a reasonable fee for the medium
   and duplication costs.  Bulletin boards may not charge additional
   fees for downloading this specific program, other than normal
   connect-time and/or membership charges.

   You may charge a maximum of US $5 for each disk you sell.  In the
   case of CD-ROM compilations, the selling price is calculated as the
   price of the CD-ROM divided by the number of products on the CD-ROM.
   Thus, in such cases, the price is usually only a few cents.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 08:47:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joachim Reinert - AG DVS)
Subject: [Q] Is there a Kermit implemented in BASIC?
Message-Id: <jreinert.780914821@rhein>
Keywords: BASIC,Kermit
Sender: [e-mail] (Unix-News-System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: rhein.informatik.uni-kl.de
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:47:01 GMT
Lines: 18
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hi!

I am in need for a file transfer between maschines which are
programmable in BASIC (to be precise Business Basic) only.
The Simtel Collection includes a "receive kermit" which will
serve as a startingpoint. To avoid unecessary lost of sparetime:
Is there a send/receive kermit implemented in BASIC anywhere in
the public domain?

Thanks for any input

Joachim Reinert

--
Joachim Reinert              UNI Kaiserslautern, AG-DVS
fax   : [phone]     P.O. Box 3049
phone : [phone]     67653 Kaiserslautern - Germany
e-mail: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 20:44:58 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <36d22k$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 20:44:58 GMT
Lines: 44
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36d22k$[e-mail]>,
Mike Honeycutt ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
>without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
>are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
>the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.

    From the help file for MS-Kermit 3.13:

* COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING

Kermit can also transfer files or other information with remote computers,
services, or devices that do not support the Kermit file transfer protocol.
These methods provide no error detection or correction.     Use with caution.

TRANSMIT <filename>
  Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard
  a line at a time.  Waits for linefeed (\10) to echo before sending next
  line.     Uses all current communication settings (parity, flow, etc).
  Doesn't translate character sets.  CRLF is sent as CR only unless SET
  TRANSMIT LINE-FEEDS ON.  Empty lines are sent as pairs of CRs (or CRLFS)
  unless SET TRANSMIT FILL is used.

SET TRANSMIT <parameter> <value>
  Various parameters used to control TRANSMIT command.
  FILL-EMPTY-LINE { NONE, SPACE, <char> }
  LINE-FEEDS-SENT { ON, OFF }
  PAUSE <number> - pause <number> milliseconds after sending each line.
  PROMPT <char> - character to wait for before sending next line (= \10)

LOG SESSION <filename>
  Capture a remote file, which you must TYPE, into the named file
  (SESSION.LOG by default).  Use \Klogoff and \Klogon keyboard verbs to
  stop and restart logging (Ctrl-]Q, Ctrl-]R).

CLOSE SESSION
  Stop capturing and close the session log file.


    There should be commands in the other versions of Kermit similar to
    these.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 02:38:01 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail] (Thomas V. Myers)
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 02:38:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Frodo Was Here
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 44
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Keith Petersen ([e-mail]) wrote:
> According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
> University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.

> SimTel's policy is:

>   Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs
>   offered by several vendors.  If the program submitted should not
>   be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution,
>   it will not be accepted.

> Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit:

>   Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City
>   of New York.  The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared
>   without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained,
>   except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software
>   product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with
>   commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to
>   their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of
>   Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University.

> Because of this restrictive distribution policy all MS-Kermit programs
> and other associated files bearing the Columbia University copyright have
> been removed from SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm).

> Questions and comments should be sent to Columbia, *not* to SimTel.
> The e-mail address is:  [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)

> Keith
> --
> Keith Petersen
> General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
> Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
> Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

That copyright notice has been there for years but Frank makes a comment about
source code on CD-ROMs becoming stale on the shelf and you decide that it's suddenly
time to pull Kermit off your distribution.  Either you don't enforce your policy
except when questioned, or you don't bother to read any of the copyright notices
until somebody asks about them.

--
Tom Myers : [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 21:00:45 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <36d22k$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 21:00:45 GMT
Lines: 19
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36d22k$[e-mail]>,
Mike Honeycutt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading
>a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge
>receiving it, sends another packet, etc.
>
>Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
>without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus

   Better yet, how about continuous sending WITH error correction?
Better Kermit programs all support `sliding windows,' which allows the
sender to send a bunch of packets without getting an acknowledgement.
Suitably configured, you can get continuous data flow and a
considerable improvement in speed over the default half-duplex
transfer strategy.

   BTW, Kermit has supported sliding windows since 1986, before
ZModem existed.
            - Tim Kientzle

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 11:43:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT])
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
References: <[e-mail]> <36em3v$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:43:30 GMT
Lines: 53
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello,

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>[e-mail] (Brainwave Surfer) writes:
>> I can see both sides of this, Columbia U's, and us...  I still mourn the
>> loss of Kermit from the Net.  However, will the Columbia U's FTP site still
>> be open?  Do they have a Gopher server up yet?
>>
>Come on, everybody -- nothing has changed.  Of course Kermit software is
>available via ftp, just as it always was.  Once again, for the umpteenth
>time, nobody has told ANYBODY to take Kermit software off their ftp sites.

>Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier
>messages, some of which might not have been delivered.  The two sites who
>posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their
>archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our
>software on CDROM.  There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit
>from their ftp sites.  Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with
>it.  Our policies have not changed.

What's next ? ftp-os2 (aka Hobbes) ? You know, that's the central
OS/2 software archive, and the domain name id .cdrom.com, which is, one
should have heard, Walnut Creek Software. c-kermit for OS/2 is there, and
(although I have not checked) I assume its on their Hobbes CD either.

Oh, and what's about the freebsd distribution ? It is on CDROM as well,
also from Walnut Creek. CKermit is in there. Will that be removed either ?

I don't think your policy wrt CDROM-Makers is a well thought one. You seem
to require individual negotiations, which by itself is simply not feasible
when putting several thousands of programs on a CD. The administrative
overhead would seem inacceptable.

May I suggest that you decide on some criteria that

- when met automatically allow CDROM distribution
- are made that they cover at least the "classical" internet
  related archive CDs ?

After all its a distribution way like every other, and I pay
orders of magnitude more money to a local Internet provider when
ftping all the stuff than when bying a Walnut Creek CDROM.

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr


--
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  [e-mail]
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT     |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. [phone]                    |           D-67653 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 12:55:46 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a Kermit implemented in BASIC?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:55:46 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <36h1si$[e-mail]>
References: <jreinert.780914821@rhein>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <jreinert.780914821@rhein> [e-mail]
(Joachim Reinert - AG DVS) writes:
> I am in need for a file transfer between maschines which are
> programmable in BASIC (to be precise Business Basic) only.
> The Simtel Collection includes a "receive kermit" which will
> serve as a startingpoint. To avoid unecessary lost of sparetime:
> Is there a send/receive kermit implemented in BASIC anywhere in
> the public domain?
>
The following Kermit programs are written in BASIC:

Directory   Files      Comments

kermit/c    lux*.*     Luxor ABC micros, ABC-BASIC-II
kermit/d    rd2*.*     DG 800 RDOS
kermit/c    ta1*.*     Tandy 100
kermit/d    mbf*.*     MAI Basic Four
kermit/d    pic*.*     PICK, DATA/BASIC
kermit/c    hpb*.*     HP-9000 BASIC workstation
kermit/c    hp9*.*     HP-9845 BASIC workstation
kermit/c    hp8*.*     HP86 and HP87

These are on kermit.columbia.edu.  In each of these directories you
will find a listing of all the Kermit programs with a name like
aav???.hlp, which tells the system, OS, language, location, date of
the Kermit program, and where it came from.  The "???" portion of the
name tells how it was sorted.  ???=LNG means programming language.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:02:06 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: stuttering screen display
Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:02:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 31
Message-Id: <36h28e$[e-mail]>
References: <36fh5m$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36fh5m$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill
West) writes:
>
> I just upgraded my modem from a PPI 9600 ext. to a Cardinal ext. 14400
> fax/modem and can't quite get the setup right since I have not had to deal
> with the high speed features before. I find myself having to manually
> refresh the screen constantly since about halfway through changing from one
> display to another the screen will freeze up and I can get the display back
> by doing a ctrl-R and it will be fine for one or two screen changes such as
> reading one or two news articles.
>
> I am running c-kermit 5A(190) BETA.23 but have also tried c-kermit 5A(188).
> I have tried serveral differant at command configs and still get the  same
> results. What am I missing here? If I hook the 9600 back up it works fine.
>
These are classic symptoms of a lack of effective flow control.  You have
to tell Kermit to SET FLOW RTS/CTS (if your particular version supports it),
and you also have to configure your modem for RTS/CTS flow control.
x
x I trust that is
x the whole
x answer
x but I still
x have to add
x more lines
x or else
x the answer
x won't be
x posted.
x
- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 12:24:25 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a Kermit implemented in BASIC?
Keywords: BASIC,Kermit
References: <jreinert.780914821@rhein>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:24:25 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <jreinert.780914821@rhein> [e-mail] (Joachim Reinert - AG DVS) writes:
>Hi!
>
>I am in need for a file transfer between maschines which are
>programmable in BASIC (to be precise Business Basic) only.
>The Simtel Collection includes a "receive kermit" which will
>serve as a startingpoint. To avoid unecessary lost of sparetime:
>Is there a send/receive kermit implemented in BASIC anywhere in
>the public domain?

That's fastinating!  I'd be interested in following up on this myself,
for I have a friend of mine who was recently made System Administrator
for a company's new unix box.  He knows MS-DOS and Business BASIC as
well, but not unix.  So, he spent his time setting up the system so that
it runs like MS-DOS using programs like Unix WordPerfect 5.1, Lotus, etc.

But when he ordered the Unix, he says he *didn't* order the C compiler,
only Business BASIC!  Now he's asking me how he can transfer files to the
unix system via modem.

I'll download the .BAS file that exists at columbia and send it his way.
I hope he can hack his way through it :-)


Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:11:36 1994
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From: [e-mail] (R. Stewart Ellis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 30 Sep 94 13:11:36 GMT
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Lines: 32
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: nova.gmi.edu
Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5b3.0 #4 (NOV)
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Roland Kwee) writes:

 >This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current
 >discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites.

 >While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
 >that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
 >I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
 >systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
 >files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.

They all use ancient versions with tiny packets and no sliding windows.

 >Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not
 >a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners
 >of zmodem lobbying against it?

I think the answers are yes, yes, definitely yes.

 >Kermit deserves better.

Probably, but it would help if it were easier to configure for maximum
performance, or if it make more modern assumptions as the default, with a
series of macros included that set for the more pessimistic setups.

 >--Roland          email: [e-mail]

--
  R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765   ___________________
  Humanities & Social Science,  GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst.    /   _____  ______
  Flint, MI 48504      [e-mail]               /        / /  /  / /
  Gopher,chimera,nn,tin,jove,modems, free code is best!/________/ /  /  / /

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 12:00:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:00:53 GMT
Organization: HP InterWorks Member
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In article <36efjj$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

> Yes, indeed, some sites like Garbo and Simtel add value to their
> collections by adding an index, or scanning for viruses, or packaging
...
> But I'm willing to bet that the majority of CDROMs out there are nothing
> more than get-rich-quick schemes.  Start up gopher in the evening, come
...
> How do we tell the difference?  Even when a company adds value to our
> product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours?

Because their work is added in a way which can be reasonably compensated.
Depending on the nature of the complementary work, it may not make any
sense to compensate.  Right now, I'm filling out little Scantron bubbles
for a computing survey.  Someone's going to take that data and generate
a report and make money off of it, without compensating me.  However,
said report may lead to computing technologies which I may want to use.
Should those people who submit you Kermit bug fixes expect a fee?  What
is the fee?  What do you base it on?  Your response seems simplistic.

-Mike

, 11,000 software programs for a fraction of a cent each is a pretty
> good deal!  But as I said earlier (I hate having to use that phrase all the
> time) we can't afford to sell Kermit that inexpensively because we not only
> distribute the software, we write it, document it, and provide tech support
> for it, and these are labor-intensive jobs.

For the amount of work that you put into Kermit,if you do want to keep it
in the context of a Columbia u. "product", have you considred applying
for grant moneys to fund its support?  The FSF accepts grants, and I
don't believe their integrity has been corrupted as a consequence.  Your
model of funding your work seems bent on frustrating people who can do
a better job of distributing your work than you can, which disturbs me.

> With shareware, it's a different story -- CDROM distributions such as
> Simtel's are perfect for shareware.  All the author has to do is write
> the software and then sit back and collect money.  However, despite
> suggestions from a few people, I don't think the majority of Kermit users
> want to see it turned into shareware, and I'm not sure we could do this
> even if you wanted us to, and we wanted to.

You seem to imply that it's so easy for a shareware author to slap
together some random hunk of chicken vomit together and make money.
I'd disagree, and I'd argue that attaching one's name to a piece of
crap can have bad consequences down the road.  The majority of Kermit
users would *want* an international 1-800 # where they could bitch and
moan about their kermit woes to their heart' content, all at the expense
of your people who'd have better things to do.  The majority of the
Kermit users probably would gleefully accept anything which doesn't get
in the way of their acquisition and use of Kermit.  Your policies seem
to get in the way of the users, who might prefer an independent body
doing virus scanning and professional bundling and such.

-Mike


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 12:30:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:30:05 GMT
Organization: HP InterWorks Member
Lines: 16
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
...
>That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others
>and covered by copyright restrictions.
>    BBS operators making a profit offering the programs would be much
>the same as the CDROM case, in my view.
>    Internet service providers are selling time on their wires,
>irrespective of the files or programs used at the other end of the wire.
>    The copyright restriction says you can't make money selling our
>product without our permission.

Joe, what about those .edu sites that may run an FTP archive in conjunction
with a software vendor or as part of a grant, where yes, people are PAID to
run a good FTP archive and have an incentive to gather as much stuff as they
can for it?  And yes, a number of popular archives obtain money that way.


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:14:42 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:14:42 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT]) writes:
> What's next ? ftp-os2 (aka Hobbes) ? You know, that's the central
> OS/2 software archive, and the domain name id .cdrom.com, which is, one
> should have heard, Walnut Creek Software. c-kermit for OS/2 is there, and
> (although I have not checked) I assume its on their Hobbes CD either.
>
Fine, nobody said they could not put it on Hobbes, even though they tend
to be behind the Columbia version and we waste a lot of time answering
questions about this.

> Oh, and what's about the freebsd distribution ? It is on CDROM as well,
> also from Walnut Creek. CKermit is in there. Will that be removed either ?
>
If it is on the Walnut Creek CDROM, it was put there without our permission.
Either they did not read the copyright notice, or they deliberately violated
it.

If it is on ANY CDROM, it is there without our permission, as we have never
yet negotiated a successful agreement with any CDROM distributor.  Read on
and see why (as if I have explained this seventeen times already).

> I don't think your policy wrt CDROM-Makers is a well thought one. You seem
> to require individual negotiations, which by itself is simply not feasible
> when putting several thousands of programs on a CD. The administrative
> overhead would seem inacceptable.
>
> May I suggest that you decide on some criteria that
>
> - when met automatically allow CDROM distribution
> - are made that they cover at least the "classical" internet
>   related archive CDs ?
>
We have been searching for such criteria that are mutually beneficial.
But there is an inherent contridiction here: there is no way the CDROM
companies can afford to pay us anywhere near what we have to charge ourselves
for distributed Kermit software by mail order.  Why?  Because our costs
cover not only ftping stuff and copying it to a CDROM, but also designing,
writing, maintaining, supporting, and documenting the software AND we include
a printed manual.  And conversely, there is no way we can keep the Kermit
effort going on "a fraction of a penny per program".

This discussion would not be taking place if nobody liked or used Kermit
software.  If you like it, if you use it, then please respect tha people
who work so hard to bring it to you.  These people are not the CDROM makers,
they are the programmers and writers who actually produce it and the tech
support people who have been answering your questions on a daily basis for
over a decade.

As I pointed out yesterday (there's that phrase again), CDROMs are great
for distributing shareware, because then everybody wins.  CDROMs are not
great for distributing Kermit software, because the very dynamics of the
process KILL the Kermit effort.  The only way to fight back -- and survive
-- is to change our terms so it is no longer free for everybody to use.
Is that what you want?

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:02:26 1994
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From: [e-mail] (David Quattlebaum)
Subject: Re: Kermit icon
Sender: [e-mail] (Noter of Newsworthy Events)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:02:26 GMT
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Here is an icon that I think suits Kermit well. A very good likeness
of the muppet it is named for. Given to me by Paul T. Krust.

Have fun

----------------8<-------------------------------------------
begin 644 kermit.ico
M```!``$`("`0``````#H`@``%@```"@````@````0`````$`!```````@`(`
M``````````````````````````````"```"```"`@```@````(``@```@(``
M@("``,#`P````/\``/\```#__P#_````_P#_`/__``#___\`____________
M_______________R____\O__\B__________\B__\B+_\B+___________(B
M+RJJHB(B___R(O\B+__R(B*JJJHB(B(B(B+_\B(B\B*JJJJJHB(B(B(O__\B
M(B(JJJJJJJJB(B(B____(B(BJJJ@``"JJB(B+_____(B*JJ@````"JJB(O__
M____*JJJ``````"JJB________JJH```````"JJO______^JJ@````````"J
MJO______JJ``````````"JJO____^JJ@``JJJJJJ``"JJO___ZJJ``JJJJJJ
MJJH`"JK___^JH`JJJJJJJJJJH`JJ____JJ"JJJJJJJJJJJH*JO___ZJJJJJJ
MJJJJJJJJJJK___^JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ____^JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJK_____^J
MJJJJJJJJJJJJJO______^JJJJJJJJJJJJJ________^KN[JJJJJJN[K_____
M____NPN[JJJJJ[L+__________L`N[JJJJNP"__________[L`NZJJJ[`+O_
M_________[N[NJJJN[N_____________NZJJJJN________________ZJJK_
M____________________________________________________________
M__________\`````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
!````
`
end
--------------->8--------------------------------------------
--

R. David Quattlebaum           SAS Institute Inc.
[e-mail]             SAS Campus Drive, R4138
[phone] x6284            Cary, NC 27513-2414



From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:17:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Wolf Paul)
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thomas V. Myers) writes:
> Keith Petersen ([e-mail]) wrote:
> > According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia
> > University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit.
>
> That copyright notice has been there for years but Frank makes a comment about
> source code on CD-ROMs becoming stale on the shelf and you decide that it's
> suddenly time to pull Kermit off your distribution.  Either you don't enforce
> your policy except when questioned, or you don't bother to read any of the
> copyright notices until somebody asks about them.

According to Keith's note his decision was based on an e-mail exchange between
him and Frank da Cruz, the contents of which you are presumably not fully
aware of, and not just on "a comment" about whatever.

I would like to point out two important aspects which seem to get forgotten
frequently:

1. Until about a year ago, SIMTEL was an operation of the US Military, and
   was run strictly as an FTP archive. There was no collection copyright, no
   policies enforced at all as to CD-ROM or other physical media distribution.
   Vendors who created CD-ROM distributions from the SIMTEL collection were
   themselves responsible for paying attention to copyright; Keith and/or
   the White Sands Missile Range did not receive any revenues from these
   distributions and were not responsible for them.

   THAT HAS CHANGED! The Army shut down the SIMTEL20 computer, and the
   Collection was given a new home by Coast to Coast Telecom, and renamed
   The SimTel Collection. I am not privy to all of the arrangements Keith has
   with them regarding his salary and other costs of maintaining the
   Collection, but he has stated several times that there is now a
   collection copyright on the Collection in order that some of the funds
   required to maintain the Collection can be realized by licensing CD-ROM
   distributions. This has shifted the responsibility for complying with
   copyright laws from the CD-ROM vendors at least partly to Keith and his
   employer, and it is therefore only normal and expected that Keith had
   to think about and implement a policy which would permit them to steer
   clear of any litigation.

2. It is clear however, that with the sheer amount of material in the
   SimTel collection, it takes time to go through all of the copyright
   notices, and of course those cases where someone complains are dealt with
   first. As I said above, this has not been an issue in the same way until
   about a year ago, so it is irrelevant what has been in the copyright
   notices "for years".

In any case, let's be more careful in casting aspersions and accusations of
any kind at people whose services we do not pay for and yet benefit from.
--
         V           Wolf N. Paul, UNIX Support/KSF     [e-mail]
+-----------------+  Alcatel Austria AG, Site "F"     [phone] (w)
|  A L C A T E L  |  Ruthnergasse 1-7                 [phone] (fax)
+-----------------+  A-1210 Vienna-Austria/Europe       [phone] (h)

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:36:32 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:36:32 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 73
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Keith Petersen) writes:
> Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit:
>
> In the process of reviewing programs submitted to the SimTel collection
> I have seen many different ways of expressing distribution limitations.
> This simple well-worded statement would solve the confrontation between
> Columbia, SimTel and Garbo, while keeping the spirit of free distribution
> of Kermit.
>
>    You may freely distribute the original [program name] in any way
>    you see fit other than selling it.  Users' groups and shareware
>    distribution services may charge a reasonable fee for the medium
>    and duplication costs.  Bulletin boards may not charge additional
>    fees for downloading this specific program, other than normal
>    connect-time and/or membership charges.
>
>    You may charge a maximum of US $5 for each disk you sell.  In the
>    case of CD-ROM compilations, the selling price is calculated as the
>    price of the CD-ROM divided by the number of products on the CD-ROM.
>    Thus, in such cases, the price is usually only a few cents.
>
Thanks Keith.

Look folks -- some of you seem intent on pinning us down to a nearly
Talmudic definition of the terms and conditions for redistributing Kermit
software, and the underlying sentiment seems to be that, despite its
copyright status, it is really a public resource -- in the public domain,
and everybody in the world has right not only to use it (they do), but also
to redistribute it for financial gain.  They don't.

Fine.  Think of Kermit as a public resource, like your local fire or police
or sanitation department, or the Library of Congress.  Yes, you have a right
to its services, but somebody has to pay for them.  They are paid for out of
a tax.  That's how all of you are able to use it for free -- somebody ELSE
is paying for the work that goes into it (or more accurately this week, that
is NOT going into it :-).  (Lest anyone misunderstand, by "tax" I do not
mean a federal, state, or local tax, but income from mail-order sales of
our books and magnetic media to other end-users all over the world.)

The amount of work that is done -- which is not nearly as much as needs to
be done -- costs a certain amount of money: salaries, benefits, computers,
service contracts, supplies, etc.  If we don't get the money, we can't do
the work, it's that simple.

The various proposals that public-spirited contributors are making about how
we should give our software away to companies in order for them to sell it
to you (pardon me, Keith) cheaper than we could are intrinsically
destructive.  Please try to understand:  This results in more copies of
Kermit software out there that we have to support, and less income for us
to pay for that support.

As somebody pointed out yesterday, something *is* wrong with this picture
if this debate must be carried out over and over again.  Maybe what is
wrong is that we -- silly us -- are still basically trying to provide a
public service: FREE SOFTWARE, of high quality, with solid technical support
behind it, all free.  All we ask in return is that at enough of you purchase
the accompanying manuals to keep us afloat, and that you stop haranging us
for our commercial-redistribution policies and let us get on with our work
on your behalf.  Maybe it will turn out that we really do have to change
the way we get income; I hope not.

On any newsgroup, there are a few vocal people and a large mass of onlookers.
There is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel, and the tone of
discussions like these -- i.e. controversies -- is set by the vocal ones.
In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are
people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests
that are in conflict with ours.  But in the final analysis, WE DID ALL THE
WORK and so we get to set the terms.  Those terms are the most generous
terms imaginable to the end user, so there is NO CAUSE FOR ANYBODY TO
COMPLAIN.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 13:51:23 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:51:23 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 34
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In article <36gull$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike
O'Connor) writes:
> Should those people who submit you Kermit bug fixes expect a fee?  What
> is the fee?  What do you base it on?  Your response seems simplistic.
>
My goodness, captitalism run amok.  No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

Yes, of course Kermit software is the product not only of several programmers
and designers who work at it full time -- some paid, others not -- but also
of hundreds of citizens of the Internet, and even quite a few people not
connected to it in any way, who send in stuff by post -- bug fixes, entire
new Kermit programs.

I like to think that the Kermit effort is one of the great examples of
worldwide collaboration brought about in part by the networks, but mainly
for everybody in the world to have access to a useful tool.  These people
contribute willingly and without compensation.  Their work is acknowleged
in public -- we regularly publish lists of these people in the source code,
in our books and newsletters, etc.

We have been operating this way for many years, and it works.  Well, it
works less now than it did before, because times are harder now and most
people can't afford to contribute as much of their time as they used to.
Computers are trading commodities.  Software itself, once an art, is now
too a commodity.

Everybody who sits on the sidelines and does actually do this work day and
night, week after week, year after year, is welcome to make suggestions and
comments, but what, really, is the point?  Do you really want to turn the
Kermit effort into a business?  With licenses for everybody?  Lawsuits?
Come on, folks, look what you are getting for free.  Why do you care more
about CDROM makers than about the people who produce the software?

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 01:51:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 94 07:51:53 MDT
References: <36evui$[e-mail]> <36f562$[e-mail]> <36fu6e$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 20
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36fu6e$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Sturdevant) writes:
> Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
> : In article <36evui$[e-mail]>
> : [e-mail] writes:
> : >   This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do
> : > about it:  Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed).  Is there
> : > anyway to suppress this?   That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET
> : > character?
> : >
> [Snip] Advice on redefining keys...
>
> That works on most keys...  Two keys left of the the "dual entry" table are
> Ctrl-J/Ctrl-Enter and Esc/Ctrl-[.  I believe that these are the only two (on
> standard 101 keyboards) that cannot be independently defined.
>
> JamesS
----------
    Yup. Control-Enter is ^J from the Bios and we can't distinguish it
from typing Control-J. It is one of the many "features" of the IBM PC Bios.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 15:10:21 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Nico Garcia)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for SUN UNIX ?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:10:21 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 18
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References: <[e-mail]> <36fe6d$[e-mail]>
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Sep 1994 22:13:33 GMT
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In article <36fe6d$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul
   Davidson) writes:
   > The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or
   > binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/
   >
   kermit.columbia.edu:kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz).

Read the path name. Those are *test* binaries. For source, get
kermit/b/cku189.uue, uudecode it, and pull the source out of the
resulting tar file. I use this version on my Sparc II with SunOs 4.1.2
with no problem.

For binaries, go to kermit/bin/ckuker.sparc.sunos[appropriate OS].

                Nico Garcia
                [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 15:25:19 1994
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From: [e-mail] (David Spencer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 30 Sep 1994 11:25:19 -0400
Organization: Project Development and Finance
Lines: 17
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What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a
sane environment?

99 44/100 % of my use of kermit is to have my i486 svr4.2 unix box
talk over the phone lines to a Sun running Solaris. The modems on both
ends are using Hayes protocol. The modem on the Sun end is connected
to a terminal server, which I believe is using telnet to talk to the
Suns. The modem on the i486 is hooked to a serial port.

I assume I need to escape the flow control charaacters for the modems.
I think both ends are using rts/cts, though at least one may use
xon/xoff.

(Heretical note: sz works fine without -e.)

--
dhs [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 15:37:55 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill West)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: stuttering screen display
Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:37:55 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services   [phone]
Lines: 22
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Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <36fh5m$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill
: West) writes:

: These are classic symptoms of a lack of effective flow control.  You have
: to tell Kermit to SET FLOW RTS/CTS (if your particular version supports it),
: and you also have to configure your modem for RTS/CTS flow control.

I think it ended up being hardware related, namely a digital VAX 4000 model
90 with the modem hooked up to the tta2 port. I am ending up with kermit
showing a connection speed of 38400 and the port itself showing 9600
<choke>. I got rid of the screen stutter with set flo keep on ckermit, and
at the same time living with the slower baud rate that my hardware is giving
me. I did have it hooked to a decserver 200/mc and that was worse:-(.

Thanks for your response and keep up the good work, I for one appreciate it.
--
******************************************************************************
Bill West
Houston TX
email: [e-mail]
******************************************************************************

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 15:49:26 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for SUN UNIX ?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:49:26 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 32
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nico
Garcia) writes:
> In article <36fe6d$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Frank da Cruz) writes:
>    In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul
>    Davidson) writes:
>    > The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or
>    > binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/
>    kermit.columbia.edu:kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz).
> Read the path name. Those are *test* binaries. For source, get
> kermit/b/cku189.uue, uudecode it, and pull the source out of the
> resulting tar file. I use this version on my Sparc II with SunOs 4.1.2
> with no problem.
>
Sorry I was not sufficiently verbose.  I've been working on edit 190 for
more than a year, and I would appreciate it if people on the net would go
straight to the 190 Beta, which is quite solid.  That way, any problem
reports I get will apply to the current code, rather than to an old, frozen
version upon which countless improvements have already been made.

There are only a couple small matters that keep 190 from being released
right now.  One of them is the lack of a testbed for SunLink X.25, which
I hope is now remedied, and the other is the perhaps vein hope of getting
RESEND capability added to the VMS version.

If you find problems in 189, that's too bad, it's too late.  If you find
problems in 190, I'll fix them right away.  That's why I recommend the
test version.

Thank you for your indulgence,

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 15:52:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:52:14 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
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References: <36hakv$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <36hakv$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Spencer)
writes:
> What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a
> sane environment?
>
Please read the documentation.  This question does not have an answer.
There is no point in posting it in public hoping that somebody "out there"
has a magic answer.  There isn't one.  For each and every connection, the
answer is different, and depends on every component -- modem, terminal
server, host operating system, console driver, PAD, etc etc -- along the
path.  In general, the best assumption is that no two paths are different.
In many cases you don't even know what bxes you are going through.

The documentation is the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit or the
KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit.

It's free, it does not cost you a cent, please read it.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 16:13:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 30 Sep 1994 16:13:31 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 14
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In article <36hc7e$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Frank da Cruz) writes:
> path.  In general, the best assumption is that no two paths are different.
>                                                                  ^^^^^^^^^
You know what I mean, right?  Different, the same, they're all the same
to me ...

> The documentation is the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit or the
> KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit.
> It's free, it does not cost you a cent, please read it.
>
Sorry if I sound a little grumpy today, it's been a tough week.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 02:59:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 94 08:59:33 MDT
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36g46d$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roland Kwee) writes:
> While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
> that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
> I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
> systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
> files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.
    <edited>
----------
    Agreed, it's embarassing to see what's run on some BBS systems.
Well, we are trying to help this, and you can lend a hand, by issuing
a small memory footprint edition of MS-DOS Kermit v3.14 which omits all
networking and all terminal emulation. The executable is about 122KB,
+/- whatever happens in beta testing. Unwinding the many linkages between
components was not easy, but it's been accomplished.
    There are a number of uses for such a reduced version, and BBS
sites are but one of them. Full file transfer capabilities are present,
as are the script tools and command line operations (which include
restricting access to Kermit running in server mode).
        What you can do is to notify BBS operators of this Kermit-Lite edition,
once it has been released, and urge them to upgrade. We do recommend reading
the fine manual so that their systems can exploit the heck out of scripts
and set long packets and sliding windows etc.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 03:52:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 94 09:52:31 MDT
References: <36d22k$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 38
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36d22k$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mike Honeycutt) writes:
> I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading
> a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge
> receiving it, sends another packet, etc.
>
> Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
> without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
> are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
> the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.
-----------
    One has to step back and ask why you would want to do this.
Presumably in an attempt to save time, yes? But it doesn't save measurable
time because the error checking is so very fast, far faster than say sending
a single byte on a serial link.
    To give you an example. Let's run two Kermits over a serial line,
and then run the same Kermits over an Ethernet path. Transfer the same
files the same way etc. Over the serial link the file byte/sec rate is
about the same as the serial line can carry. On Ethernet (TCP/IP Telnet)
the speed ranges from 40KB/sec to 80+KB/sec, depending on the machines.
In serial port terms these look like rates of 400,000-800,000 bits/sec.
The same programs, same files, just changing the comms channel. That says
the Kermit protocol portion is far faster than any serial link work. More,
the TCP/IP Telnet work is a full (and I do mean brim full) protocol stack
itself which requires time to execute; a serial channel is very much simpler.
    Basically, when using a serial link the PCs are loafing.
    As other posters have indicated, there are many things which can
go wrong in a file transfer, and errors on the wire are just one set. Error
checking is vital and yet it is extremely fast. Protocols get to be complicated
in part because they must perform certain mimimum functions to guarantee
safe delivery. But those functions are still cheap in time compared to the
speeds of serial comms wires.
    Please turn on sliding windows, even over a link two feet long
between PCs. It lets transmission continue while the first packet is being
digested. Please use long packets, say 1KB-2KB, if your link permits that
many bytes in a row (not all do, I'm sorry to say). Those two items alone
produce much improved performance, if the comms system can support the
traffic.
       Joe D.

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 14:07:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirror Sites and CDROMs
Date: 29 Sep 1994 14:07:56 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 36
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Otto J. Makela) writes:
:It would seem (at least to me) from this text actually that there was no
:reason for the Simtel20 and Garbo archives to remove kermit stuff from
:their archives.  They would simply have to place notes in their ftp
:directories that for example the kermit directory may not be placed on
:CD-ROM collections made from their archives, as most archive keepers are
:not really involved in the production of the CD-ROM's.  Correct?

Correct in theory, but not in our current policy.  Material which
may not be put on potential CDROMs of our archives are not carried.
That would require two sets of directories, those with fully
distributable material, those with non-CDROM-eligible material.  It
is far too complicated, at least for me.  I want Garbo archives to
be one entity, not several alternative arrangements, even if in
theory that could be possible.  To be honest, I do not have
sufficient motivation for trying to maintain such a complicated
pattern.

I now understand from the authors that MsKermit could be retained on
Garbo if I would see to it that it would not go on any CDROM.  (I
hope I got this right?).  Fair enough, but as I said, far too
complicated for me.

None of this is directed against the MsKermit authors whom I have
the pleasure to consider as net friends.  It is simply that we have
an incompatible situation.  As Frank privately put it, no hard
feelings.  These situations just come up as fact of life without any
ill-intentions from either side.  We'll just have to live with this.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 20:16:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 29 Sep 1994 20:16:27 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 69
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References: <36efjj$[e-mail]>
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In article <36efjj$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
:Yes, indeed, some sites like Garbo and Simtel add value to their
:collections by adding an index, or scanning for viruses, or packaging
:the files up in different ways, before copying them to CDROM.

Thank you.  I appreciate the recognition.

:How do we tell the difference?  Even when a company adds value to our
:product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours?

There are two alternative views.  You can treat each method of
distribution equal.  For example you can say, distributing from FTP
sites is ok, distributing on CDROMs is not ok, distributing on 2.8Mb
disks in not ok, and so on.

Another alternative is giving the consent according to the
distributor.  There are authors who have granted SimTel and Garbo
such a permission for their potential CDROMs while not the others.
Unfair one might say at first sight, but stop to reflect this for a
moment.  We have quite a similar problem when evaluating programs
submitted to us.  Some we accept, some we don't because they are not
up to our standards.  Life is full of non-mechanistic choices.  You
can as well ask me "how come I accept someone's work while I reject
that of someone else".  The answer is by my personal judgement and
the criteria I may have developed from the years of experience I
might have.  We all are human decision makers, not pre-programmed
machines.

Please do not get me wrong on two accounts.  First, I am not
suggesting that you SHOULD grant us special treatment.  I am just
pointing out that there are different approaches to this dilemma.
Second, it is your privilege to decide your policies.  I am not
contesting them in any way.  Whatever decision you have made, I'll
respect it.

:Finally, once again and for the last time:  We, Columbia University,
:did not and never have told Garbo, Simtel, or any other site to remove
:Kermit software from their archives.  These sites elected to remove

That is fully understood.  The reason for removal from SimTel (if I
may speak partly for us both) and Garbo is that it would be too
cumbersome to have two versions of our archives.  A version with
fully distributable material, a version with non-CDROM material.  At
least I lack the motivation and the time for that, as I already
replied to Otto Makela's useful posting.

:Kermit software for their own reasons, having nothing to do with our
:policy -- or lack thereof -- toward ftp mirror sites.

That is exactly right.

We have no quarrel here.  What we have is respective policies that
at the moment make it impractical for us to continue to carry
MsMermit on our archives, and make it impractical for you to allow
use our full distibution.  Hence the impasse.

We just have an unfortunate combination in here.  We understand and
respect each others' views, but in our pleasant private discussions
we were unable to find a solution to accomodate our respective
policies.  Thus the discontinuation of MsKermit support from our
sites.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 03:03:58 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 03:03:58 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 24
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References: <[e-mail]> <36em3v$[e-mail]>
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36em3v$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
:software on CDROM.  There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit
:from their ftp sites.  Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with
:it.  Our policies have not changed.

Frank, that is an unfair passing the buck, and giving a run-around
to your own users.  Please don't.  You have repeatedly explained
that you did not actually require us to remove MsKermit from Garbo
and SimTel.  True.  We have repeatedly explained why we had no
choice given your policy about SimTel and potential Garbo CD-ROMs.
Also true.

Please let's not confuse YOUR users what this is about.

I have not exhorted the users to COMPLAIN to anyone, nor will I
stoop to it now.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 04:22:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 04:22:51 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 37
Message-Id: <36g3qr$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36em3v$[e-mail]>
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In article <36em3v$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
:available via ftp, just as it always was.  Once again, for the umpteenth
:time, nobody has told ANYBODY to take Kermit software off their ftp sites.

Technically true, but lopsided.

Let me explicitly spell out the existing alternatives.

1) We leave current the situation as is.  Consequence: No MsKermit
material at SimTel and Garbo.

2) Columbia change their policies and lift their ban on CDROM
distribution altogether.  Obviously out of the question.

3) Columbia change part of their policies by granting SimTel and
Garbo an exception permission to have MsKermit material also on
their CDROMs.  Conququence: The material would be put back on these
two sites and all their mirrors.  (What other FTP sites and BBSes
will and would do is outside our jurisdiction).

4) SimTel and Garbo give up CDROMs.  Totally unrealistic.  Out of the
question.

5) SimTel and Garbo set aside a section for restricted material.  As
for Garbo, I am not prepared to do that.  Way too cumbersome and
confusing.  No motivation.

These are the simple facts of the situation.  At the moment it seems
that alternative #1 will prevail.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 17:00:29 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirror Sites and CDROMs
Date: 30 Sep 1994 17:00:29 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <36hg7d$[e-mail]>
References: <36ehns$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36ehns$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
> ...far too complicated, at least for me.  I want Garbo archives to
> be one entity, not several alternative arrangements, even if in
> theory that could be possible.  To be honest, I do not have
> sufficient motivation for trying to maintain such a complicated
> pattern.
>
Thank you, Timo.  This also goes to the complaint about the Kermit
archives not being in exactly the format that you, personally, like
best.  Timo is only one guy, so am I.  Maintaining multiple copies of
archives to suit various sets of requirements and tastes is not high
on his priority list, nor ours at Columbia, even though we actually
do this to cover the most popular cases.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 17:57:29 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Date: 30 Sep 1994 17:57:29 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 20
Message-Id: <36hji9$[e-mail]>
References: <36evui$[e-mail]> <36f562$[e-mail]> <36fu6e$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
writes:
 :     Yup. Control-Enter is ^J from the Bios and we can't distinguish it
 : from typing Control-J. It is one of the many "features" of the IBM PC Bios.
 :     Joe D.

Sure you can:

   i = (unsigned int) bioskey (0);
   if (i == 0x1C0A)  ----> Ctrl-Enter

--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: [e-mail]
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 03:59:42 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 94 09:59:42 MDT
References: <36d22k$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 25
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
> In article <36d22k$[e-mail]>,
> Mike Honeycutt ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
>>Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
>>without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
>>are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
>>the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.
>
>     From the help file for MS-Kermit 3.13:
>
> * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING
>
> Kermit can also transfer files or other information with remote computers,
> services, or devices that do not support the Kermit file transfer protocol.
> These methods provide no error detection or correction. Use with caution.
>
> TRANSMIT <filename>
>   Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard
>   a line at a time.  Waits for linefeed (\10) to echo before sending next
>   line.     Uses all current communication settings (parity, flow, etc).
----------
    Nah. That's a crude stop and wait item. See the "waits for linefeed"
guy. No error checking, no flow control, no nothing; just send & pray.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 19:39:24 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:39:24 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 25
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Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
writes:
> > ...
> > * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING
> > ...
> > TRANSMIT <filename>
> >   Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard
> >   a line at a time.  ...
>
> Nah. That's a crude stop and wait item. See the "waits for linefeed"
> guy. No error checking, no flow control, no nothing; just send & pray.
>
For your amusement: This is what Windows Terminal calls "text mode" file
transfer.  Guess what "binary mode" file transfer is.  Hint: it's not
what you think.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 18:04:18 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Duncan Murdoch)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:04:18 GMT
Organization: Queen's University
Lines: 26
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In article <36em3v$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier
>messages, some of which might not have been delivered.  The two sites who
>posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their
>archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our
>software on CDROM.  There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit
>from their ftp sites.  Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with
>it.  Our policies have not changed.

This seems to be the problem - people who are unwilling to allow any
flexibility in their policies.  Simtel and Garbo don't want special case
software that makes production of the CDROMs more difficult.  Columbia doesn't
recognize that having their software in the largest and best known MSDOS
collection (Simtel) and in another very well-respected and more specialized
collection (Garbo) *is* to their benefit.  Exposure and distribution to people
without ftp access is worth something, and exposure to people who have never
heard of Kermit before and who would have no idea to look for it is worth
something.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs.



Duncan Murdoch
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 19:34:42 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:34:42 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 27
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulam.engin.umich.edu
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 30 Sep 1994 13:36:32 GMT
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>>>>> "Frank" == Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> writes:

Frank> On any newsgroup, there are a few vocal people and a large mass of onlookers.
Frank> There is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel, and the tone of
Frank> discussions like these -- i.e. controversies -- is set by the vocal ones.
Frank> In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are
Frank> people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests
Frank> that are in conflict with ours.  But in the final analysis, WE DID ALL THE
Frank> WORK and so we get to set the terms.  Those terms are the most generous
Frank> terms imaginable to the end user, so there is NO CAUSE FOR ANYBODY TO
Frank> COMPLAIN.

I fully support Columbia University's rights on this.

I enjoy your books/documentation, and wish this lawyers thread would
go offline (and stay offline).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Paul Holloway           |e-mail: [e-mail]
                              |   URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Paul Holloway           |e-mail: [e-mail]
                              |   URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 20:37:48 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 20:37:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 52
Message-Id: <36hsus$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Duncan Murdoch) writes:
> This seems to be the problem - people who are unwilling to allow any
> flexibility in their policies.  Simtel and Garbo don't want special case
> software that makes production of the CDROMs more difficult.  Columbia
> doesn't recognize that having their software in the largest and best
> known MSDOS collection (Simtel) and in another very well-respected and
> more specialized collection (Garbo) *is* to their benefit.  Exposure and
> distribution to people without ftp access is worth something, and
> exposure to people who have never heard of Kermit before and who would
> have no idea to look for it is worth something.
>
> It's a pretty sad state of affairs.
>
Indeed.  At the risk of gaining a reputation as the kind of person who
always must have the last word -- and I really do hope this IS the last
word -- let me try to explain how you are missing the point.

Of course there is value in Kermit software, and if everybody could get
for free, or dirt cheap, that would be a good thing.  We all agree about
that.  In fact, you could say the same thing about food, clothing,
education, you name it.  It would be great if you could get EVERYTHING for
free.  The point you are missing is that all these things are brought to
you by people who work.  But unlike other commodities, Kermit software
really is free to those of you on the Internet who protest so loudly about
our policies.  The people who are paying for your access to our work are
not complaining.

I really wish I did not have to keep repeating myself -- it is really
boring.  There is a paradox here: the more our software is spread to the
general public on CDROM, and the more popular it becomes, the more work
we have (tech support), the less time we have to devote to development,
and the less money we have to pay for tech support AND development.

Thus, the policy you are advocating is a very short-sighted one, the result
of which would be that everybody would get Kermit software for "a fraction
of a penny", and the Kermit effort would get nothing: our marketplace would
disappear -- because nobody in their right mind would pay $35 for the same
thing (more or less -- there is also the manual to consider) they can get
for a third of a penny.  Meanwhile, since they do not have the manual, they
pester us to death with questions that are already answered there.  Work
grows to infinity, income shrinks to zero, and poof, you've killed it.
Well, hooray, hooray, now we all have just what we wanted and it was free,
so we won!  Yay!  But then technology changes, operating systems change,
communication and networking methods change, and you are now left to the
tender mercies of all those commercial and shareware software producers who
care so much about quality and support.

I'm sorry, it's a whole package -- if you don't like it, don't use it, and
let us get on with devloping and supporting it for those who do,

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 21:58:24 1994
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From: [e-mail] (David Spencer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 30 Sep 1994 17:58:24 -0400
Organization: Project Development and Finance
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <36i1m0$[e-mail]>
References: <36hc7e$[e-mail]> <36hdfb$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>> The documentation is the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit or the
>> KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit.
>> It's free, it does not cost you a cent, please read it.

I did RTFM and RTFckuker.doc. Sorry I didn't RTFckcker.upd. It didn't
leap to mind as the file that would have what the man and .doc didn't
have. It was, however, most helpful.

The .upd doesn't answer the specific question. There are probably a
few thousand knowledgeable usenetters with substantially the same
setup. So my question still seems reasonable.

>Sorry if I sound a little grumpy today, it's been a tough week.

I've noticed. No offense taken. kermit is one of my favorite pieces of
software, so you get plenary dispensation anyway.
--
dhs [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 21:15:12 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 30 Sep 1994 21:15:12 GMT
Organization: HP InterWorks Member
Lines: 52
Message-Id: <36hv50$[e-mail]>
References: <36gull$[e-mail]> <36h54r$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36h54r$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes in response to me:

>> Should those people who submit you Kermit bug fixes expect a fee?  What
>> is the fee?  What do you base it on?  Your response seems simplistic.
>>
>My goodness, captitalism run amok.  No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

Of course, if you take me out of context, you can say whatever silly
thing you want.  Let's see what you said first:

jdc> How do we tell the difference?  Even when a company adds value to our
jdc> product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours?

So I took it one step further with my "how much do you pay for Kermit
bug fixes" remark.  Then you proceed to take me out of context?  Bah!

>Yes, of course Kermit software is the product not only of several programmers
>and designers who work at it full time -- some paid, others not -- but also
>of hundreds of citizens of the Internet, and even quite a few people not
>connected to it in any way, who send in stuff by post -- bug fixes, entire
>new Kermit programs.

And I imagine they contributed with the understanding that this was
free software that was freely redistributable.

>Everybody who sits on the sidelines and does actually do this work day and
>night, week after week, year after year, is welcome to make suggestions and
>comments, but what, really, is the point?  Do you really want to turn the
>Kermit effort into a business?  With licenses for everybody?  Lawsuits?
>Come on, folks, look what you are getting for free.  Why do you care more
>about CDROM makers than about the people who produce the software?

I didn't say anything about licensing Kermit.  I said something about
supporting Kermit in a commercial fashion, so you can subsidize your
activity of making Kermit into a great public product.  Selling doc is
probably not paying the bills.  I am interested in seeing Kermit
succeed, and I don't think that what you're doing is encouraging its
success.  The reason I care about CD-ROM makers is because I can point
people who want to take a look at it and other technologies at a single
source, well-sorted and well-tested.  Also, with the emergence of FTP
archives that ARE funded -- wuarchive, sunsite, etc. -- you already
have a situation going on where your software resides on FTP sites that
make money in a sense for running an archive, and may well be considered
"commercial concerns" for the purposes of the Kermit/your copyright.

What you're doing doesn't appear to make sense for your users, and
doesn't appear to make sense for yourself, so I have to wonder why
you're doing it, and what this means for the future of Kermit.  Are
you hoping that some sympathetic ear will give you money?  What do you
gain by artificially limiting the redistribution of FREE software?

-Mike

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 09:08:24 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Sep 94 15:08:24 MDT
References: <[e-mail]> <36arh5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36h0cd$[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 37
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36h0cd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
> ...
>>That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others
>>and covered by copyright restrictions.
>>    BBS operators making a profit offering the programs would be much
>>the same as the CDROM case, in my view.
>>    Internet service providers are selling time on their wires,
>>irrespective of the files or programs used at the other end of the wire.
>>    The copyright restriction says you can't make money selling our
>>product without our permission.
>
> Joe, what about those .edu sites that may run an FTP archive in conjunction
> with a software vendor or as part of a grant, where yes, people are PAID to
> run a good FTP archive and have an incentive to gather as much stuff as they
> can for it?  And yes, a number of popular archives obtain money that way.
---------
    Well, yes, what about them. Good question.
    If an FTP site is selling software then that's still selling software
as above. The organization (to follow your example) providing the money is
doing the buying of something, but buying what. Near this point the path
becomes obscure, as reasonable people will agree (on the obscure part if
nothing else, sigh).
    Normally .edu sites run on zero funding, or less, as a public service.
Mine runs on less. Edu sites have all kinds of legal rules too, not to mention
the unwritten ones about where one spends time and which resources are used and
paid by whom, and all that jazz. Student hobby sites are left alone as an
educational experience. My sites are doing a public service on behalf of my
Univ.
    At the bottom of all this discussion is people are trading with
someone else's property on a for-gain basis. Some products have specific
restrictions about the for-gain part. This leads to two questions: is
each product being sold versus money going for something else entirely,
and, if clearly for-gain ought the business be using that material as
capital. Lawyers may wish to step in here and carry the discussion to
alt.nebulous.arguments.
    Joe D.

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 22:14:01 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Flaherty)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 30 Sep 94 22:14:01 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA, USA
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36h302$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bora-bora.pa.dec.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

A small suggestion.

Rather than having MSKermit binaries on the SimTel / Garbo ftp/CDROM sites,
why not instead include a text file which points to the official kermit ftp
site?  True, this isn't as ideal as a binary, but it's much better than getting
stale bits...


--
-=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX |     "Just name a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."
->[e-mail]     |          -- Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 23:09:59 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 30 Sep 1994 23:09:59 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <36i5s7$[e-mail]>
References: <36hv50$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36hv50$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike
O'Connor) writes:
> What you're doing doesn't appear to make sense for your users, and
> doesn't appear to make sense for yourself, so I have to wonder why
> you're doing it, and what this means for the future of Kermit.  Are
> you hoping that some sympathetic ear will give you money?  What do you
> gain by artificially limiting the redistribution of FREE software?
>
Sorry if I jumped down your throat or quoted you out of context -- it's
not just you, it's the whole situation.  To make amends, I will not prolong
this silly discussion any further unless something truly outrageous happens.

Except to say that we are indeed flexible and open to new ideas, in case
there are some that we have not already had ourselves and rejected because
they don't really work, or because we don't have the resources to implement
them (chicken-and-egg situation), or they would provoke even more debate
and acrimony than our current stance, or the circumstances of our university
status do not allow.  If somebody has a magic pill to make everybody happy,
please share it.  Otherwise, let's all get on with our lives.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 10:09:46 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!netcomsv!ccougar!len.wilson
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36e2og$[e-mail]>
Organization: The Colorado Cougar BBS
X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.13
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 04:09:46 -0600
Lines: 20
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

 > In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe
 > Doupnik) writes:
 >        The CDROMs are sold for profit, based on the contained programs.
 > The attraction is not a nifty logo on the CDROM or fancy box or terrific
 > browser program, though such items are worthy of charging if desired, but
 > the target objects themselves, without which there won't be much
 > attraction. That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works
 > copyrighted by others and covered by copyright restrictions.

 This is the most ridiculous objection I've ever heard. I'm a shareware
 author and I'm tickled to death when I hear from someone who got my
 stuff from a CDROM. The more widely distributed it is, the happier I
 am.  Hell, that's why I upload my work in the first place!

 I just ordered a set of Simtel CDROMs for my BBS and, if I'm not mistaken,
 one of those 10,000+ programs is mine.  Neat huh?


 Len Wilson


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 09:03:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:03:45 GMT
Lines: 16
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Jeff Bangert ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Timo Salmi ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo.  The
>: files have not yet been physically deleted, but their read
>: permissions have been removed.  For all details of the situation
>: please see the comp.protocols.kermit.misc newsgroup.  Please do not
>: direct any queries about this to Garbo moderators.  Kermit is
>: distributed from the Columbia University.  The support person there
>: is Frank da Cruz [e-mail].

>I just scanned all the messages on this group -- could not find an
>announcement.  Could someone point me to it?

    comp.archives.msdos.announce and comp.archives.msdos.d

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 01:16:14 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:16:14 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <36hv50$[e-mail]> <36i5s7$[e-mail]>
Lines: 27
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
>[...]
>Except to say that we are indeed flexible and open to new ideas, in case
>there are some that we have not already had ourselves and rejected because
>they don't really work, or because we don't have the resources to implement
>them (chicken-and-egg situation), or they would provoke even more debate
>and acrimony than our current stance, or the circumstances of our university
>status do not allow.  If somebody has a magic pill to make everybody happy,
>please share it.  Otherwise, let's all get on with our lives.

I hope that someone does have a magic pill because when you say that
that Kermit cannot be distributed on *any* CD-ROMs it means that the
folks who distribute FreeBSD, BSDI, SunOS, Linux, and other operating
systems, as well as DECUS, may no longer include Kermit, even through
it is free of charge, on their CD-ROMs.

It appears to me that you have single-handedly killed the entire free
distribution system for Kermit, except for Internet anonymous FTP.  That
will probably result in the death of the Kermit protocol on systems
which do not have access to the Internet.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 11:11:39 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <368187$[e-mail]> <369777$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:11:39 GMT
Lines: 7
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>
>Bottom line: It's our software, it bears our copyright, we did all the
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>work, and we get to set the terms for its distribution.  [...]
 ^^^^

Is this true?

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 12:19:49 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Foulk)
Subject: send and unlink (C-kermit/Unix)?
Organization: Pegasus Information Systems
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:19:49 GMT
Lines: 11
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Zmodem (sz) has a very nice feature, invoked with `-u' that removes
each file just after it is successfully transmitted.

Is there a clean and reliable way to do something similar with c-kermit?


Thanks


--
Richard Foulk        [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 11:42:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup
Organization: Pegasus Information Systems
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <35n9jm$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:42:51 GMT
Lines: 23
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>> Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line?
>>
>Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs.  For some the
>answer is yes, for others it is no.  In UNIX, of course, the answer is no.
>A fundamental aspect of the UNIX operating system is that when a process
>exits, all of its open files are closed.  There is no way around it.
> [...]

This is not correct.

In general, Unix will not cause a hangup until the last process with
the port open closes it.

Test this by establising a connection via kermit, then attach another
process to the port (to hold it open) and do a `kill -9' to the kermit
process.  Since this kill can't be caught it doesn't allow kermit to do
any of its usual cleanup so it won't be able to disconnect the modem.

It would be nice if kermit would support a cleaner way to do this.


--
Richard Foulk        [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 01:25:07 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gail.ripco.com!jgamble
From: [e-mail] (John M. Gamble)
Subject: Re: A Kermit library for MS-Windows
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News Admin)
Organization: Ripco Internet BBS, Chicago
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:25:07 GMT
Lines: 32
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Bo Kullmar <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I am looking for a good commercial communication package for MS-Windows
>with fast kermit functions. I need a kermit that can use larger packages
>than 94 bytes.
>
>Any suggestion? (The Kermit server on the other end is C-Kermit 5A(188)).
>
>--Bo Kullmar
>

Not the response you want, but i absolutely do *not* recommend QuickLink.
It comes free with Practical Peripherals and US Robotics modems.

The kermit protocol choices are Kermit and Super Kermit.  I tried
connecting to a friend with it - he had QL, and i had MS-Kermit 3.10.

Transfer was pathetic.  I have my send and receive block sizess set to
512.  No go, ~94 was all we got.  Even worse, literally two out of
three packets sent were failures.  This is not a statistical comment,
it really would fail two packets and then accecpt the third.  Needless
to say, this fail-two-take-one behaviour was not making us happy.

Super Kermit protocol had identical behavior, except that it only failed
every other packet.  I guess that's what made it "Super".

Ansi terminal emulation was not good... i tried a vi session via QL,
and found that i had to hit ^L after dd commands.

Good thing it was free, i'd hate to have to try to get a refund for it...

    -john

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  1 03:02:15 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Brushaber)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Need Kermit for a Dec Alpha
Date: 30 Sep 1994 23:02:15 -0400
Organization: UMCC, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Lines: 6
Message-Id: <36ijfn$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: umcc.umcc.umich.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]


  Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Kermit for
a Dec Alpha?

Al - [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 16:58:40 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kermit newbe needs help
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News (system))
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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:58:40 GMT
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Howdy all! I need some advice. The network that we are currently running
supports a number of Macs and PCs. From the Macs, you can put files or
get files. From the PCs, however, you can only get files. My theory is
that if I can find a Kermit program, and put it into server mode, we
should be able to send files to the PCs. Is my logic correct here? Any
suggestions on which Kermit to run? ( or other solutions?) Please
emaill dirrect asap!

From [e-mail] Thu Sep 29 04:24:43 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: USing Unix editors while under kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail]
Date: 29 Sep 94 12:24:43 PST
Organization: Naval Air Weapons Station
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm using version 1.89 on OS/2 to log into Unix box . The
problem I have is that I can't use either Emacs or Vi because
of the lack of either an escape or an ALT-X that transmits
to the application correctly.Also the arrow keys do not
work in the applications . I have the book and have tried
both set terminal arrow-keys and set terminal keypad-mode.
What should I do next ?

The oddest part is that the program works fine, arrow keys in
application, etc - in calling into a VMS system. Is this some
sort of anti-unix plot <G>.

--
Matt
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 21:06:03 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <36hakv$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:06:03 GMT
Lines: 26
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36hakv$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Spencer)
writes:
> What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a
> sane environment?
>
   Depends, of course, on what you mean by ``sane.''

   Here are a few points that might help you figure out what will
work for you:
   A few controls almost always have to be prefixed: the Kermit
start-of-packet character (usually Ctrl-A), Xon (Ctrl-Q) and Xoff
(Ctrl-S) (often used for flow control).
   Some others that often need prefixing: DLE (Ctrl-P), NULL, DEL,
and any special interrupt character (C-Kermit uses Ctrl-C by default).

   Generally, for every character you prefix, you should also prefix
the same character with the high bit set, to avoid problems caused by
parity mismatches.

   It does vary widely from system to system, though.  Unless you're
using a very simple connection that you understand well, at some point
it comes down to just guessing.  If you get it wrong, you'll get errors
and if you're unlucky, you'll crash something.

    Good luck,
                - Tim Kientzle

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 21:17:04 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kermit Start-Of-Packet Characters
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Summary: What ones are used?
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:17:04 GMT
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Besides the default Ctrl-A, what control codes are used by different
Kermit implementations for their Start-Of-Packet characters?

I've heard of Ctrl-B being used, and I doubt anyone uses CR, LF,
XON, or XOFF, but it would be interesting to know which ones are
used?

Respond via e-mail if possible and I'll post a summary.

            - Tim Kientzle

===========================================================================
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 21:29:14 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Errors in Protocol Manual
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:29:14 GMT
Lines: 31
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

FWIW, I've found two minor errors in the Kermit Protocol Manual, 6th
edition that I recently pulled from kermit.columbia.edu.  Page numbers
are from the PostScript version.

Section 7.1, middle of page 44:  The description of HCHECK
claims that the header check is computed ``from the sum of the
ASCII values of the SEQ, TYPE, LENX1, and LENX2 fields'' and
then gives the formula:
    s = LEN + SEQ + TYPE + LENX1 + LENX2

I believe the formula is correct and the text is in error. (At least,
my Kermit implementation communicates with C-Kermit, and it does
include the LEN field in the header check.)


Section 7.1, top of page 45: ``...the sender should be prepared to
reconstruct the current packet at, say, half its size, ..., before
retransmission''

    In fact, this is a Bad Idea.  If the timeout is due to a lost
ACK, the receiver may not realize that the reconstructed packet (with
the same sequence number!) has different data in it.  The result can
be a transfer in which data is duplicated or dropped without either
side detecting the error.  It seems unreasonable to require the
receiver to compare each repeated packet against a stored copy of the
packet, which I believe is the only certain way to protect against
this problem and allow the sender to alter the size of a repeated
packet.

    Just thought someone might be interested...
                - Tim Kientzle

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 21:32:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Login script (was Re: kermit script)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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In article <[e-mail]>,
Pedro Ferroni ([e-mail]) wrote:

>2) How do I find instructions to set up a scrip so i don't have do enter
>password, user id, telent unix, etc every time.

    This is the script (comments added-- you will need to strip them
    out to use the script as-is) that I use to connect to my dial-up
    (Unix) shell account on Netcom.  I was able to derive all the
    information I needed to write it from the command descriptions that
    are included in the help file that comes with MS-Kermit 3.13.  Note
    that if you include your password in a login script, anyone who has
    access to your computer can 1) log into your account and 2) read
    your login script to get your password.  An alternative script that
    doesn't include the password follows the first one.

SET INPUT CASE OBSERVE    [make input commands case sensitive]
SET INPUT DEFAULT 30    [input and reinput commands timeout in 30 secs.]
CLS            [clear screen]
CLEAR            [clear input buffer]
SET TERMINAL CLEAR    [clear terminal buffer]
:REDIAL            [label] (dial phone number again)
CLS            [clear screen]
OUTPUT ATDT*70,,8428835\13
    [send control string to modem followed by CR (\13): cancel call
    waiting (*70), pause 2 seconds (,,), dial number]

INPUT 15 BUSY        [wait 15 secs. for modem to say BUSY]
IF SUCCESS GOTO REDIAL    [and go back to :REDIAL if it does]
REINPUT 5 {NO CARRIER}    [check previous input, and wait 5 more secs. for
            modem to say NO CARRIER (note that { and } are
            quote characters)]
IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY    [and go to :BUSY if it did (or does)]
REINPUT {CONNECT 2400}    [wait 30 more secs. for modem to say CONNECT 2400
            (substitute your own connect speed for 2400)]
IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN    [and go to :LOGIN if it does]

    [if your modem says anything other than CONNECT 2400 (eg.
    CONNECT 1200), REINPUT times out and control goes to :BUSY]

    NOTE:  You may have to adjust the above input command timeouts
    a little, depending on your modem and phone service.

:BUSY            (hang up modem and redial phone number)
HANGUP            [drop DTR to hang up modem]
CLEAR            [clear input buffer]
PAUSE 4            [wait 4 secs. (necessary for 3-way calling)]
GOTO REDIAL        [go back to :REDIAL and call again]
:LOGIN            (successful connect; start login)
REINPUT 2 {NO CARRIER}    [check back to see if carrier dropped after
            CONNECT 2400 (it happens sometimes)]
IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY    [and go back to :BUSY if it did]

    NOTE:  This section is dependent on how your host system
    prompts you, and on some portion of that prompting being always
    the same.  Eg. my login prompt varies, but the last part of it
    is always 'login: '

REINPUT 15 {login: }    [check back and wait 15 secs. for login prompt
            (note {} to preserve space after login: )]
IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT    [and go to :CONT if it shows up]
GOTO BUSY        [go back to :BUSY if it doesn't]
:CONT            (login prompt showed up - continue login)
OUTPUT jhurwit\13    [send my userid (followed by CR)]
INPUT Password:        [wait 30 secs. for Password: prompt]
IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT1    [and go to :CONT1 if it shows up]
GOTO BUSY        [go back to :BUSY if it doesn't]
:CONT1            (password prompt showed up - continue login)
OUTPUT xxxxxx\13    [send my password (followed by CR)]

    NOTE:  Including your password in a login script is a security
    risk!  See introductory paragraph, and second script below.

INPUT 20 {Last login:}    [wait 20 secs. for Last Login: (indicates
            successful login on my system)]
IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT2    [and go to :CONT2 if it shows up]
REINPUT 10 {Invalid Login}  [check back and wait 10 more secs. for
                Invalid Login (happens when the password
                file is too busy)]
IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN    [go back to :LOGIN if this happens (a login:
            prompt always follows Invalid Login)]
GOTO BUSY        [go back to :BUSY if anything other than Last
            Login: or Invalid Login shows up]
:CONT2            (successful login)
CONNECT            [start terminal emulation]
END            [end of script]

    Here is the same script with a few lines added and one changed,
    that will prompt you for your password on each login.  NOTE:  If
    the variables %A and %B are being used in your MSKERMIT.INI,
    MSCUSTOM.INI, or in another script, choose another pair of
    variables from %A to %Z that aren't being used elsewhere.

SET INPUT CASE OBSERVE
SET INPUT DEFAULT 30
CLS
CLEAR
SET TERMINAL CLEAR
:REASK                (prompt for password again)
ASKQ \%A {Input password: }    [prompts you for your password, doesn't
                echo what you type in, puts it in
                variable %A]
ASKQ \%B {Input password again: }  [prompt again for comparison]
IF EQUAL \%A \%B GOTO REDIAL    [go to :REDIAL and continue login if
                same password was enterred both times]
ECHO Passwords do not match.  Re-enter password.
    [echo this to screen]

GOTO REASK            [go to :REASK]
:REDIAL
CLS
OUTPUT ATDT*70,,8428835\13
INPUT 15 BUSY
IF SUCCESS GOTO REDIAL
REINPUT 5 {NO CARRIER}
IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY
REINPUT {CONNECT 2400}
IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN
:BUSY
HANGUP
CLEAR
PAUSE 4
GOTO REDIAL
:LOGIN
REINPUT 2 {NO CARRIER}
IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY
REINPUT 15 {login: }
IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT
GOTO BUSY
:CONT
OUTPUT jhurwit\13
INPUT 30 Password:
IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT1
GOTO BUSY
:CONT1
OUTPUT \%A\13        [send you password (in variable %A) followed by CR]
INPUT 20 {Last login:}
IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT2
REINPUT 10 {Invalid Login}
IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN
GOTO BUSY
:CONT2
ASSIGN \%A        [removes your password from memory (from
ASSIGN \%B        variables %A and %B]
CONNECT
END

From [e-mail] Fri Sep 30 20:54:27 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:54:27 GMT
Lines: 52
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36g46d$[e-mail]>,
Roland Kwee <[e-mail]> wrote:
>This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current
>discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites.
   You might not succeed.  <grin>

>While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
>that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
>I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
>systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
>files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.
   It's somewhat curious to see how provincial the different computer
sub-communities can be.  The PC/BBS community is no different.  They
use ZModem for file transfers and PC/ANSI terminal emulations, and
don't really care about anything else.  Other sub-communities use
Kermit/VT320 or IND$FILE/3270.  It all depends on where you grew up, I
guess.  ;-)

>Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not
>a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners
>of zmodem lobbying against it?
   Well, having developed several commercial terminal programs, I can
perhaps suggest some of the factors that lead to this situation:
   * ZModem source code is available in the public domain.  As a
result, adding basic ZModem support is fairly simple, since a
developer can cut and paste existing code.  To the best of my
knowledge, there is no good Kermit implementation available in the
public domain.
   * ZModem and Kermit have different goals.  ZModem's primary goal is
to be fast; Kermit's primary goal is to work over any connection.  As
a result, most potential users of these protocols use ZModem, because
it's fast.  Sure, Kermit _can_ be fast, but that requires a lot of
configuration that most users just don't want to mess with.
   * Many computer users use freely-available software for
communications.  The restrictions on C-Kermit/MS-Kermit distribution
make this option unavailable to many users.
   * Finally, the legal status of the Kermit _protocol_ is ambiguous.
I don't know for sure if protocols can or cannot be copyrighted or
patented, but I _do_ know that the ZModem protocol is in the public
domain, and I cannot get in trouble for implementing it.  I don't know
about Kermit.

>Kermit deserves better.
    Kermit is indeed a very nice protocol.  But a commitment to
developing and supporting a protocol like Kermit involves a lot of
considerations other than just the technical merits of the protocol.
For many commercial developers, the other issues make it unreasonable
to invest the time and energy required to implement Kermit well.

>--Roland          email: [e-mail]

                - Tim Kientzle

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 08:50:16 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Sergio Fanchiotti)
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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References: <36hv50$[e-mail]> <36i5s7$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Lines: 57
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:

>I hope that someone does have a magic pill because when you say that
>that Kermit cannot be distributed on *any* CD-ROMs it means that the
>folks who distribute FreeBSD, BSDI, SunOS, Linux, and other operating
>systems, as well as DECUS, may no longer include Kermit, even through
>it is free of charge, on their CD-ROMs.

>It appears to me that you have single-handedly killed the entire free
>distribution system for Kermit, except for Internet anonymous FTP.  That
>will probably result in the death of the Kermit protocol on systems
>which do not have access to the Internet.

>Keith
>--
>Keith Petersen
>General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
>Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
>Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

Keith & Frank,


    Well, as someone looking at this silly discussion for some time
    it seems that the time has come to get to work on a GPL'd version
    of a portable data transfer program like Kermit (As Les said before).
        Kermit is decent software and ubquitous but not the last word in this
    area. And if something of the complexity of gcc is still beeing
    supported... why not something like a kermit protocol clone? Here
    the wheel has to be re-done, hard work it is, but it may have some
    improvements, just look at the way Linux is developed!


    Seems that the authors & sponsors of Kermit are swiming against the
    current this time... The argument that they cannot support versions of
    Kermit that are sold via CD-ROMS because they don't receive a dime
    seems like nonsense. THE SUPPORT SHOULD BE CHARGED FOR if fundings is
    what is needed (or the book revenues are not sufficient)!
    ELSE DON'T ALLOW IT IN FTP PLACES AT ALL. Then the people at Columbia
    won't have any trouble with support... there will be none to do in the
    future and they can do their research in peace. It is their work
    and their choice.   (Apparently if doesn't matter that 90% of the
    people don't have FTP access...)

    In this respect we should thank the attitude of the Kermit team. In the
    long run something else will appear to fill this gap, hopefully better
    and easier to distribute.  Guess here is something else for RMS, once
    the TCL flame war is over... Maybe in a feww days we'll see
    a posting with the Subject: DON'T USE KERMIT... :-)

    Saludos,

         ...Sergio Fanchiotti


Ps: Frank, what about the BBSs, they make a buck from people downloading
    programs from them...

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 09:38:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 1 Oct 1994 09:38:03 GMT
Organization: Centre for Scientific Computing, Finland
Lines: 62
Message-Id: <36jalr$[e-mail]>
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]>
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Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36g46d$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roland Kwee) writes:
>This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current
>discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites.

There is ample room and obviously sufficient interest for both
issues.  Besides whenever there is a thread one does not wish to
follow it is relatively easy to block it out even by kill files or
threaded newsreaders, so don't worry.

>While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact
>that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform,
>I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board
>systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading
>files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend.

It is not entirely surprising, because most BBS users want and need
a fully-featured telecommunication program rather than terminal
emulation.  I won't say "just" terminal emulation, since there is
nothing disparaging in this.  Quite the contrary.  As a terminal
emulator for a professional and a semi-professional Kermit is second
to none.  But BBS users usually have different needs.

For example I use different programs for different purposes:
 MsKermit: Calling by modem my Unix host
 Telnet:   Direct ethernet connection to my Unix host
 Telix:    Calling BBSes

From what I have seen this is not an uncommon selection.

>Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not
>a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners

No lobbying, as you can see from the BBS success of programs like
Telix (which incidentally just went commercial), TeleMate, Boyan,
(in my view) slightly overrated Procomm+, and so on an on.  The
trend clearly seems to be away from freeware to shareware to
shefware.  Childhoods end?

Please note that I am observing existing facts.  I am not speaking
for or against the trend in this.

>of zmodem lobbying against it?

Hardly.  Extenal protocols like Zmodem are easy to come by and
easy to use (after one has once managed to set it up) for Kermit
terminal emulation.  For example that is how I transfer my material
between my home and office when connecting with a modem.

>Kermit deserves better.

Kermit is a very fine product for the purposes for which it is
meant, but just like other alternatives is does not cover all bases.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Temporarily as [e-mail]  USE EMAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland


From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 14:00:07 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.archives.msdos.d
Subject: Kermit, SimTel, Garbo and CDROMs: A plea for calm.
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: 1 Oct 1994 14:00:07 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

As the gentle readers will know, Columbia, SimTel and Garbo have not
managed to find a mutually acceptable solution that would enable
retaining Kermit on SimTel and Garbo.

Please, PLEASE, dear readers.  This does not make any of us bad
persons.  I am distressed to hear that especially Frank has been
flamed for his stance.  That is *NOT* fair.  We parties concerned
are all dedicated persons, Kermit is a fine product, and we try to
maintain good FTP sites in SimTel and Garbo.

Please allow us the right to have these problems without pouncing on
anyone.  It is bad enough that we have come at the impasse.  We do
not want the extra pressured from flamage.  Please state your views
calmly and rationally.

It is true that I wished that Frank would have a different policy
about Kermit distribution on SimTel and Garbo CDROMs.  But it is his
right and privilege.  I am not contesting that.  In fact I am ready
to defend his rights to having his own views, even if they diverge
from my own preferences.

A final thing for this message.  Frank as been several times
regretting the existence of comp.protocols.kermit.misc because of
this.  That is totally unnecessary!  This discussion would have
taken place with or without this particular newsgroup.  Its original
purpose STILL is intact.  But we must be allowed to discuss this
dilemma.  If it bothers anybody, kill these subjects at your
newsreaders.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 14:18:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Center / NT)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: NDIS Driver for Kermit
Date: 1 Oct 1994 09:18:51 -0500
Organization: MCSNet Subscriber Account, Chicago's First Public-Access Internet!
Lines: 7
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with
NDIS compliant ethernet adapters.

Where can I find this?

Joel    [e-mail]


From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 14:17:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 1 Oct 1994 14:17:27 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 14
Message-Id: <36jr1n$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
:I fully support Columbia University's rights on this.

So do I.  No one has been contesting Columbia's RIGHTS.  They are
unequivocal.  That is not the problem we are facing together in
here.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 01:52:02 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <36d22k$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:52:02 GMT
Lines: 32
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes:
>> In article <36d22k$[e-mail]>,
>> Mike Honeycutt ([e-mail]) wrote:
>>
>>>Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It"
>>>without the error checking?  Most of our asyn lines on campus
>>>are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with
>>>the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster.
>>
>>     From the help file for MS-Kermit 3.13:
>>
>> * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING
>>
>> Kermit can also transfer files or other information with remote computers,
>> services, or devices that do not support the Kermit file transfer protocol.
>> These methods provide no error detection or correction. Use with caution.
>>
>> TRANSMIT <filename>
>>   Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard
>>   a line at a time.  Waits for linefeed (\10) to echo before sending next
>>   line.     Uses all current communication settings (parity, flow, etc).
>----------
>    Nah. That's a crude stop and wait item. See the "waits for linefeed"
>guy. No error checking, no flow control, no nothing; just send & pray.
>    Joe D.

    Sure 'nuf is.  But hey, that's what the guy asked for...

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 02:04:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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References: <36fad5$[e-mail]> <36fens$[e-mail]>
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In article <36fens$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:

>In article <36fad5$[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] writes:
>>  : ...
>>  : Kermit says:
>>  : Scan code \5386 is defined as
>>  : Ascii char: ^J \10
>>
>> This is the obvious thing to do and it is the first thing I thought of.
>> However, this does not work on my version of MS-Kermit (3.13 patch level
>> 0).  It does not report the scan code for Ctrl-Enter.
>>
>Oops, silly me!  You're right -- I was using the "other" Enter key.
>Sorry.

>I think this is a bug, and we'll have to fix it in version 3.14.  I'll
>check with Joe.

    I also tried this when I saw the previous post.  I only have one
    Enter key on my laptop keyboard; CTRL-Enter returns no scan code.
    Neither do a-z, A-Z, or CTRL-A-Z.  Alt-A-Z, all the function keys,
    and a few others, do return scan codes.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 18:55:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Schmolck)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit
Date: 1 Oct 1994 18:55:51 GMT
Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich
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[e-mail] (Center / NT) writes:

>One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with
>NDIS compliant ethernet adapters.

>Where can I find this?

Just do what Joe D. recommended, and search for the string "dis_pkt9" in
the file MSKERMIT.BWR (or, as it is called in the kermit directory on my PC:
KERMIT.BWR).
P.S.
--
Peter Schmolck                                [e-mail]
Department of Education                       Phone :     [phone]
Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich      Fax   :     [phone]
85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 18:37:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 1 Oct 1994 18:37:56 GMT
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail] (Mike Smith)
Distribution: world
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I would not have joined this pointless discussion except Frank commented "there
is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel".  So here's how I feel:
Columbia does a fantastic job with Kermit.  People who have the audacity to
tell them how to fund their work are presumptuous beyond description.  Fans
of Simtel and Garbo seem to be almost personally offended by Columbia's policy.
That is unfortunate, but the fact remains that only Columbia knows what is
best for Kermit.  The good folks at Simtel know what's best for Simtel but if
they can't convince Columbia it is in their own best interest to include
Kermit on the CD the rest of us can't either.  I don't want to see the Kermit
effort stopped and if Frank says the CD distribution increases their workload
and decreases their income that should be the end of the argument.
--

 Mike Smith                                  [e-mail]
 Queen's University                          [e-mail]
 Computing and Communications Services       [phone]

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 20:26:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: send and unlink (C-kermit/Unix)?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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In article <[e-mail]>,
Richard Foulk ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Zmodem (sz) has a very nice feature, invoked with `-u' that removes
>each file just after it is successfully transmitted.

>Is there a clean and reliable way to do something similar with c-kermit?

    You could probably write a little script to do this.  Kermit sets a
    'success' flag when it completes a file transfer successfully,
    which can be tested for with an 'if success <do something>' line
    immediately following.  So you could have 'if success del
    filename'.  Consult the docs for more info on the C-Kermit script
    language.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 21:39:20 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Duncan Murdoch)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:39:20 GMT
Organization: Queen's University
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In article <36h490$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are
>people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests
>that are in conflict with ours.

Thanks for calling me honest and decent, but believe me:  I have no
financial interest in the distribution of Kermit.

Duncan Murdoch



From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 14:25:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 1 Oct 1994 14:25:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
...
>On any newsgroup, there are a few vocal people and a large mass of onlookers.
>There is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel, and the tone of
>discussions like these -- i.e. controversies -- is set by the vocal ones.
>In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are
>people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests
>that are in conflict with ours.  But in the final analysis, WE DID ALL THE
>WORK and so we get to set the terms.  Those terms are the most generous
>terms imaginable to the end user, so there is NO CAUSE FOR ANYBODY TO
>COMPLAIN.

Okay, I'll bite. I don't have any financial interests and I do
like your kermit. Here's what I have problems with:

1. You want your software to be free but you want to limit the
   distribution. How are you going to distribute it FOR FREE then?
   If you are looking for financial support, say so.
   I have NO objection with that.

2. You have negative views of those CD-ROM vendors. As a user
   I very much appreciate the availability of those CD-ROMs.

3. As an author of various free programs, I do spend my time
   writting the code (and that could be translated to thousand of
   dollars). I understand your views, you don't want a money-
   grabbing-scumbucket making money from your sweat.
   But all those CD-ROM vendors are NOT scums !!!
   What's the diff. between your program and other free/shareware
   available on SimTel ?

4. I understand you did all the work and you can set whatever
   terms you want. As a user, though, I have to warn you that
   your restriction can cause the death of your fine program.
   Thus the objections raise by the people here.

5. Personally, with all the troubles. I would rather change to
   a different program/implementation. Just one user, no big deal, eh ?
   Well, don't underestimate. I always recommend your kermit
   to friends/users/clients, and so do many people.

I hope you understand my view. You have a fine product, please
don't kill it by restricting its distribution.

-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 00:47:40 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 00:47:40 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 17
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In article <36jrgq$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
Rahardjo) writes:
> 5. Personally, with all the troubles. I would rather change to
>    a different program/implementation. Just one user, no big deal, eh ?
>    Well, don't underestimate. I always recommend your kermit
>    to friends/users/clients, and so do many people.
>
This is a point of view that I can't understand.  Nobody is restricting your
use of Kermit software or even asking you to spend a dime for it.  You
can ftp it from any site that carries it any time you want.  But it's not
enough that we should produce the software and give it to you; we must
also give it to a third party before you will agree to use it.  The part
I don't understand is why your compassion for this third party does not
extend in equal part to the people who designed, wrote, documented, and
support the software in the first place.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 00:20:24 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Need Kermit for a Dec Alpha
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 02 Oct 94 00:20:24 GMT
References: <36ijfn$[e-mail]>
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In article <36ijfn$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alan Brushaber) writes:
>
>  Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Kermit for
>a Dec Alpha?
>
>Al - [e-mail]
>

Which OS?  Dec Alpha's run at least 3.

Larry W. Finger
[e-mail]



From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 00:59:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bryan T Hoch)
Subject: Where can I get the latest version for Mac?
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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    Could someone please tell me a ftp site and directory in which I can
get the NEWEST version of Kerit for Macintosh? Thanks a bunch.


Bryan

[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 01:06:28 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:06:28 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 28
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David Spencer ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I did RTFM and RTFckuker.doc. Sorry I didn't RTFckcker.upd. It didn't
: leap to mind as the file that would have what the man and .doc didn't
: have. It was, however, most helpful.

: The .upd doesn't answer the specific question. There are probably a
: few thousand knowledgeable usenetters with substantially the same
: setup. So my question still seems reasonable.

Read the five lines beginning around line 285 of kermit.upd.  I use
the recommended minimum list for C-kermit to MS-Kermit and vice-versa.
If it doesn't work for you, the next 63 lines describe what to do
next.

Sorry, but in the pc-to-mainframe world, things are not as
standardized as we would like.  For maximum throughput, a little
experimentation is needed.

If you want to avoid experimentation at some speed penalty, I
think prefixing 0 thru 31 and 128+0 thru 128+31 should handle just
about any 8N1 connection with pretty good throughput.  That takes out
all control codes and their eight bit set equivalents.

--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 01:23:10 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing
Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:23:10 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 15
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References: <36l12k$[e-mail]>
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In article <36l12k$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
writes:
> If you want to avoid experimentation at some speed penalty, I
> think prefixing 0 thru 31 and 128+0 thru 128+31 should handle just
> about any 8N1 connection with pretty good throughput.  That takes out
> all control codes and their eight bit set equivalents.
>
Which, by the way, is Kermit's default for prefixing, except that Kermit
also prefixes 127 (DEL) and 255 (DEL+128), and this is also what you get
when you SET CONTROL PREFIX ALL.

- Frank
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 01:24:42 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Where can I get the latest version for Mac?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:24:42 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 14
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bryan
T Hoch) writes:
>     Could someone please tell me a ftp site and directory in which I can
> get the NEWEST version of Kerit for Macintosh? Thanks a bunch.
>
Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu.

directory kermit/test/text.  FTP in text mode.

Files ckm190.hqx and ckmker.bwr.

Use BinHex 4.0 to convert ckm190.hqx back to an application.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 02:08:09 1994
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From: [e-mail] (ranan samanya)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: CKermit keys
Date: 2 Oct 1994 02:08:09 GMT
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Lines: 14
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I'm using CKermit for OS/2 to connect to the server. When I use joe's
editor, I can't use the PGUP, PGDOWN, or any cursor keys (PGUP and PGDOWN is
reserved for Kermit's scroll screen). Is there a way to change this
behaviour?

Please reply through email if possible.


the stars be with you
(or fall upon your head) ;D

ranan samanya

<\> the Indonesian Cita Ceria, under OS/2 </>

From [e-mail] Sat Oct  1 14:56:32 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Denis McKeon)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 20:56:32 MDT
Organization: Connemara - Computing for People
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To:
Status: OR

In <36hsus$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>I really wish I did not have to keep repeating myself -- it is really
>boring.  There is a paradox here: the more our software is spread to the
>general public on CDROM, and the more popular it becomes, the more work
>we have (tech support), the less time we have to devote to development,
>and the less money we have to pay for tech support AND development.

Looking at the larger issues - beyond the Kermit/Columbia/SimTel/Garbo
situation - notice that the economic viability of marketing software
on CD-ROMS exploits a market niche - with an update every 6 or 12 months,
and tens of thousands of shareware programs, and overhead limited to
pressing CDs and running an FTP site, a CDROM collection can show a profit.

Now, suppose you are an entrepreneur, and you want to market a CDROM
that contains programs that, like shareware, are intended to be
profitable, and additionally are supported in real time
(not "send me fixes, and I'll include them in the next release,"
but "call if you have problems, and we'll help you out.")

The CDROM entrepreneur and the software developer/supporters
are faced with negotiating issues like those Frank has outlined
(who gets how much from CDROM sales, how to recover support costs,
whether focus on support or on development.)  Like it or not,
those issues and the various contracts cost money.

The bottom line is that with that additional cost threshold, it is more
difficult to find an exploitable niche.  Maybe if a CDROM vendor was
able to work out the license/profit issues with several hundred software
developers who had, uhm, "senior" products (widely popular, stable,
regularly updated, possibly supported) then the CDROM vendor could
produce a profitable product (and vendors could reduce their
distribution costs by not shipping stacks of floppies.)

If a commercial multi-product CDROM with hundreds of supported products on
board (perhaps with free stripped demos, and key-coded full binaries?) was
available, how much would you pay for it?  How many useful products would
need to be on it before it was worthwhile buying rather than downloading?

Those rhetorical questions may not make sense to readers of this forum,
because if you have Usenet you are pretty likely to have FTP as well,
and could get copies of the same (or newer software) almost for free
(modulo your time, access provider bill, disk space, CPU cycles, etc.)

But suppose you didn't want to pay for or have FTP access.  Would there
then be a market niche for a CDROM vendor to fill (exploit)?  What would
a generic license agreement for this look like?  How can the legal costs
and monetary negotiation be handled at low cost?  (Looking at how actors
and musicians are compensated for residual profits might be a good
research starting point.)  Anyone who can answer those questions and
exploit any such niche might have an answer to this dilemma.


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 03:52:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Greg Lehmann)
Subject: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: CSIRO Queensland Centre for Advanced Technologies
Distribution: comp
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 03:52:30 GMT
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I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have
a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a
vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the accents
are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a vt220 and
now I need to change a few things, without access to a real vt220 anymore.
The document is in french. The first thing I notice is that even the line
graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is in vt102 mode. Does
anyone know how to get it working?

Thanks,

Greg
--
Greg Lehmann,
CSIRO Division of Manufacturing Technology,   Telephone: [phone]
P.O. Box 883, Kenmore, QLD 4069, Australia.   Facsimile: [phone]
2643 Moggill Rd., Pinjarra Hills, QLD 4069.   Internet:  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 02:35:24 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 02:35:24 GMT
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In article <36kaa4$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Smith) writes:

>I would not have joined this pointless discussion except Frank commented "there
>is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel".  So here's how I feel:
>Columbia does a fantastic job with Kermit.  People who have the audacity to
>tell them how to fund their work are presumptuous beyond description.  Fans
>of Simtel and Garbo seem to be almost personally offended by Columbia's policy.
>That is unfortunate, but the fact remains that only Columbia knows what is
>best for Kermit.  The good folks at Simtel know what's best for Simtel but if
>they can't convince Columbia it is in their own best interest to include
>Kermit on the CD the rest of us can't either.  I don't want to see the Kermit
>effort stopped and if Frank says the CD distribution increases their workload
>and decreases their income that should be the end of the argument.

With all due respect, Kermit is not the work of one individual.  A
number of people have invested time and energy and resources into
making Kermit what it is today.  This isn't just about Simtel and
Garbo, but about anyone who cuts a CD for an OS -- note that some
vendors no longer ship kermit with their OS, like DEC OSF/1 and BSDI.
And let's not forget those benevolent FTP archives who (ahem) do
dervie some amount of money from grants or corporate funding by
maintaining an FTP archive, like wuarchive and sunsite (just to name
two biggies) and may have a moneyary incentive (however slight) to
keep Kermit online, thus supposedly putting themselves at odds with
the Columbia people.  Already, it appears that Kermit is suffering
something of a decline as overall line quality improves, and the
omnipotent GUI has emerged.  So tell me, honestly, do YOU think that
documentation sales are going to keep Kermit alive, or is it going
to just die and spell the end of an era.

No one wants to denigrate the Kermit developers' efforts toward making
a quality software product.  But it seems like they need some help here,
and the way they want us to help them doesn't seem to help anyone.
There appear to be people out there with better funding models, and
every time someone suggests that a different funding model might better
serve the interests of everyone involved, we get a lot of voodoo and
simplistic arguments.  I'd almost call it crosstalk, but that's a
competitor, isn't it?  :)  Why isn't this work just funded by Columbia?
It certainly seems worthwhile enough just in advertising alone.

-Mike


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 05:53:54 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Michael DeCosta III)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit CD ROM?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 05:53:54 GMT
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Hmmm....I know Columbia probably doesn't have the staff for this,
but it sure sounds like a Kermit CD-ROM full of Kermits, Kermit utilities,
scripts and manuals from Columbia could be a fund generator?

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 08:02:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:02:05 -0700
Lines: 56
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Summary: What exactly is and is not permitted with Kermit?
Keywords: legal profit freeware restrictions
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In this time where the legal status of Kermit on ftp sites and
CD-ROM is heavily debated, it wouldn't harm if someone from
Columbia (Frank, Joe?) could explain in some detail what is
permitted with Kermit and what not. Such a discussion happened
not too long ago about the GNU public license for their libraries.

Here are some specific questions:

1) I understood that a commercial program like Procomm could include
the Kermit protocol and source code as long as it wouldn't charge
for that. The purchase (license) price would be for the non-Kermit
part of the product alone, and the Kermit part would be passed on
to the user for free. Is this correct?

2) Could one charge money for giving someone a copy of Kermit on a
diskette, to cover the cost of the diskette and the copying of the
files, and the postage and handling? This would not be a charge for
the program itself. It would still be an opportunity to make a profit,
. The diskette maker may make a profit, the delivery service,
the guy that spends time operating the copying device (also called wage),
and so on. This opportunity of making a profit is clearly linked to
the contents of the files, in this case the quality of the Kermit
product.

3) In the case of the Simtel/Garbo CD's, did I understand it correcly
that Columbia told them that the distribution of Kermit required an
agreement with Columbia? About what kind of demands are we talking
here? If Columbia wanted one dollar for each CD, I could understand
why the CD makers remove Kermit. If it were 0.1 cent, or a 100 dollar
lump sum, It would be a little different. Right now I see a lot
of discussion without having any idea about the order of magnitude
of the problem.

4) Does Columbia _own_ all contributions made by the numerous
volunteers that actually created the various Kermit versions? Would
Columbia refuse contributions covered by the GNU public license?

5) Long ago I must have read something like: Kermit is not public domain
to prevent others from slapping their copyright mark on it. This way,
it would be truly free for everybody to use it for whatever purpose. It
is freer than public domain. Correct?

5A) If I create a program and put it in the public domain, could someone
take it, change two comments, and exclusively own that entire modified
program?

6) Suppose I run a commercial business for profit. Can I freely use
the Kermit program? Even if my business consists entirely of transfering
files through modems using Kermit?

These are my questions. Certainly, people interested in ftp-archives
and CD-ROM will have additional questions. For me, as a layman in law,
the copyright statement of Kermit sometimes needs some clarification.

Thanks, Roland
email: [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 09:52:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Sir DarkWolf)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Kermit on Linux help
Date: 2 Oct 1994 09:52:33 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Lines: 20
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I'm attempting to run kermit from a linux system installed on my pc.  I
am having serious problems (well, serious to me anyway) getting my modem
to dial.  I have a USRobotics Sportster 14400, and use the "set modem
sportster" command when running kermit, then "set line /dev/cua1", then
"set speed 9600".  But, when I dial a number, it either tells me that it
can't initialize the modem, or that the dial timeout interval was
exceeded and it dumps me back into a kermit prompt.  I have tried setting
the dial timeout interval up through 120 sec, but this still doesn't
solve it.  I have also set the dial init-string to an init string that
DOES work with crosstalk under dos.  (AT B0 X4 &B1 &H1 &R2 E0 V1).  Does
anybody have an idea what I'm doing wrong, or could prompt me for some
extra info that will help them solve this for me.  I would greatly
appreciate it.
Thanks

--
          ********Grand Master of the Cavalry for a.f.m-p********
          *      Sir DarkWolf       *    The dirty grey knight  *
          *   [e-mail]    *    with blue speckles.    *
          *******************************************************

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 14:36:50 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: CKermit keys
Date: 2 Oct 1994 14:36:50 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
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In article <36l4m9$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (ranan
samanya) writes:
> I'm using CKermit for OS/2 to connect to the server. When I use joe's
> editor, I can't use the PGUP, PGDOWN, or any cursor keys (PGUP and PGDOWN
> is reserved for Kermit's scroll screen). Is there a way to change this
> behaviour?
>
Of course.  One of Kermit's strongest features is key mapping.

In OS/2 C-Kermit 5A(190), still in beta but not for long, each of these
actions has a "verb" associated with it.  You can assign the verb to
any key you want.  Thus you can move the rollback functions to the keys
of your choice.

Now I have no idea what "joe's editor" expects to see when you hit PgUp
and PdDown, but whatever it is, you can program those keys to send those
things.

It's all in the documentation :-)

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 14:52:25 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit on Linux help
Date: 2 Oct 1994 14:52:25 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <36lvt1$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Sir
DarkWolf) writes:
> I'm attempting to run kermit from a linux system installed on my pc.  I
> am having serious problems (well, serious to me anyway) getting my modem
> to dial.  I have a USRobotics Sportster 14400, and use the "set modem
> sportster" command when running kermit, then "set line /dev/cua1", then
> "set speed 9600".  But, when I dial a number, it either tells me that it
> can't initialize the modem, or that the dial timeout interval was
> exceeded and it dumps me back into a kermit prompt.
>
Which version of C-Kermit are you using?  Please try version 5A(190),
still in Beta.  It has numerous low-level i/o improvements for Linux.
If you still have trouble, might I recommend pages 50-67 of the manual,
"Using C-Kermit".  Yes, 17 pages on dialing, and with good reason -- there
are more things to consider than are practical to list in a newsgroup
message.  You might also want to take a peek at the MODEMS AND DIALING
and DIALING HINTS AND TIPS sections of the ckcker.bwr file.

If you can't find the answer in any of these places, send email to me with
details about your connection, versions, and exactly which commands you used
to set up the call.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 15:06:29 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta
Date: 2 Oct 1994 15:06:29 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 45
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lIn article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Greg Lehmann) writes:

> I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have
> a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a
> vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the
> accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a
> vt220 and 1now I need to change a few things, without access to a real
> vt220 anymore.  The document is in french.
>
It all works, but C-Kermit is not a mind reader.  French can be represented
by at least the following character sets on the host:

  ISO 646 French national version (7-bit)
  The VTxxx Canadian French "NRC" (7-bit)
  ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1 (8-bit)
  DEC Multinational Character set (8-bit)
  Data General International (8-bit)
  Hewlett-Packard Roman8 (8-bit)
  NeXT Multinational (8-bit)

 ... to name a few.  Kermit understands all of these, but you have to tell
it which one to use.  The comand is SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET.  Come to
think of it, it is very likely that when the file was transferred to the
Sun from the PC originally, that no character-set translations were done
at all, in which case it is still encoded in an IBM code page.  Believe it
or not, you can even tell C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET CP850
(or whatever) when talking to a Sun.

Secondly, if the file is encoded in an 8-bit character you have to make
sure that you have opened up an 8-bit connection to the Sun.  Tell
C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8.  You might also have to tell the Sun
to "stty pass8".  You also have to be using an 8-bit clean editor on the
Sun, such as EMACS 19 or Mule.  EMACS 18 won't do it.  I don't know about
VI, but I doubt it.

> The first thing I notice is
> that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is
> in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working?
>
There was a bug in OS/2 C-Kermit in some of the 5A(190) Alphas and Betas,
now fixed.  Line graphics work fine in the copy that you will find on
kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, file cku190.zip.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 15:23:09 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 15:23:09 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
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In article <36l7j2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Looking at the larger issues - beyond the Kermit/Columbia/SimTel/Garbo
>situation - notice that the economic viability of marketing software

The understandable problem with this difficult discussion have been
its excessive simplifications.  There is one further facet that has
not been brought up emphatically, so I will.

Take an obviously popular university FTP site like Garbo.  Contrary
to what some users may have assumed, we certainly do not exist for
the purpose of generating profits.  In fact all the Garbo users are
heavily subsidized by the tax-payers.  Just like all the Internet
users are, more or less, since this is net is much financed from
public funds throughout the world.  Every FTP user and everyone now
reading this posting (you and I included!) is dipping into someone
else's pocket! So are the SimTel users even if SimTel is compelled
to be more self-sufficient than we are, and needs the proceeds from
the CDROM in order to exist for you.  Else it will cease to exist
for us all.

Since also Garbo happens to be a popular FTP site, there is a good
chance that also we will be put an a CDROM.  I do not want to forbid
that possibility to retain all possible programs.

I must confess that I am worried about the current trend which the
Kermit restriction exemplifies as one of the many.  HERE IS THE
POINT: Taken to the extremes this general trend will begin to affect
the responsibly acting FTP sites, and the FREE services they provide
to the net.  Already the trend has caused a lot of extra work also
to the FTP site maintainers.  That extra work taxes our resources
and takes away from the services we provide, and it affects the
motivation of FTP site maintainers.  (Just like this unfortunately
taxes Frank's capacity).

Kermit is by far not the only such case this season.  Nor is a
single university (Columbia) responsible for what is happening in
general.  I am not trying to say that, in case someone
misunderstands.

In broad terms all this exemplifies the current 'to be or not to be'
status of the Internet community.  The ideals and the financial
realities are clashing more and more, as every user with sufficient
experience on Usenet will have gathered.

Sigh!  This no longer feels like only a comp.protocols.kermit.misc
subject.  Maybe we should find a more appropriate newsgroup for
discussing the broader issue and its imlications.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 14:32:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 14:32:34 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 63
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

: In article <36jrgq$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
: Rahardjo) writes:
: > 5. Personally, with all the troubles. I would rather change to
: >    a different program/implementation. Just one user, no big deal, eh ?
: >    Well, don't underestimate. I always recommend your kermit
: >    to friends/users/clients, and so do many people.
: >
: This is a point of view that I can't understand.  Nobody is restricting your
: use of Kermit software or even asking you to spend a dime for it.  You
: can ftp it from any site that carries it any time you want.

What about those people who don't have access to FTP?
Do you also send floppy disks for FREE?

: But it's not
: enough that we should produce the software and give it to you; we must
: also give it to a third party before you will agree to use it.

You are missing the point. You are RESTRICTING it to 3rd party,
which is actually helping you to distribute kermit. You are restricting
the distribution.
You have a view that these 3rd parties are scums, milking your sweat,
where actually they help you distribute your program. Where is your
compassion too?

Nobody is forcing me to buy their CDs. I am willingly paid for the CD,
and I KNOW all the programs are available for FREE.

: The part
: I don't understand is why your compassion for this third party does not
: extend in equal part to the people who designed, wrote, documented, and
: support the software in the first place.

The problem I have is you are making the distribution convoluted.
If I were to give somebody a copy of kermit on a disk and I charge him/her
the price of a disk, you are going to accuse me of selling kermit.
How about if somebody put your kermit in a paid-BBS ?
Are you going to get the BBS sysop too?
Are you going to remove kermit from Linux CDs ???

In a way, I am also helping you guys to distribute kermit and making
it popular. In some cases I also helping people to configure it
(in a way supporting it). Am I getting paid for it ? No.
It's your program, you can do whatever you want.
But if it makes it difficult for us to distribute it ... I won't do it.

I salute those people who design, wrote, documented, and support
the software. But you are missing one more group, people who distribute
the software.

To put it bluntly, you have a really good software but you want to
keep it to yourself, or mildly, you want to be the central distribution.
Fine. My 2 cents.


: - Frank
-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 15:57:23 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 15:57:23 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 154
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In article <36lpdt$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
writes:
> In this time where the legal status of Kermit on ftp sites and
> CD-ROM is heavily debated, it wouldn't harm if someone from
> Columbia (Frank, Joe?) could explain in some detail what is
> permitted with Kermit and what not. Such a discussion happened
> not too long ago about the GNU public license for their libraries.
>
OK, I'll give it a shot, but with all the standard disclaimers,
like you see at the bottom of car-leasing commercials :-)

> 1) I understood that a commercial program like Procomm could include
> the Kermit protocol and source code as long as it wouldn't charge
> for that. The purchase (license) price would be for the non-Kermit
> part of the product alone, and the Kermit part would be passed on
> to the user for free. Is this correct?
>
This has been our policy from the beginning, but it is clearly not a
good one for anybody but the commercial software makers.  Why?

 . Columbia gets no income.
 . Real Kermit software loses "market share".
 . The Kermit implementations in many of these programs give
   Kermit a bad name.
 . These people *are* making money from Kermit -- Look at all the
   postings on the many newsgroups from people talking about using
   Kermit in <commercial-or-shareware-package-of-your-choice>.  Who
   is to say the presence of the word "Kermit" on their package
   has not affected their sales?
 . We (Columbia) get countless tech support questions from users of
   these products.  Some of the vendors even go so far as to tell
   their customers: "Kermit problem? Call Columbia."

It's another case of "they get the money, we get the extra work", AND the
bad rep in the newsgroups and the trade press to boot.  But to answer your
question: no, there is nothing to stop anybody from writing a Kermit
implementation, no matter how minimal or buggy, without asking permission
from Columbia.  They cannot, however, use or even look at our copyrighted
source code without our permission.

> 2) Could one charge money for giving someone a copy of Kermit on a
> diskette, to cover the cost of the diskette and the copying of the
> files, and the postage and handling? This would not be a charge for
> the program itself. It would still be an opportunity to make a profit,
> .. The diskette maker may make a profit, the delivery service,
> the guy that spends time operating the copying device (also called wage),
> and so on. This opportunity of making a profit is clearly linked to
> the contents of the files, in this case the quality of the Kermit
> product.
>
I'm not going to answer this one directly.  Everybody looks for loopholes
to exploit.  Here is what we WANT to happen: if you use MS-DOS Kermit or
C-Kermit enough to need to know anything about it, purchase the manual.
If you don't do that, you waste your time and ours, and the net's.  You
run up bigger phone bills that you would have if you had read the manual,
etc etc, and, yes, buying the manual helps keep the Kermit effort alive.

> 3) In the case of the Simtel/Garbo CD's, did I understand it correcly
> that Columbia told them that the distribution of Kermit required an
> agreement with Columbia?
>
More to the point: the copyright notice says that, and the copyright
notice was overlooked.

> About what kind of demands are we talking here?
>
That's between us and the CD maker or any other commercial establishment
that wants to redistribute our software.  The negotiations are private.

> 4) Does Columbia _own_ all contributions made by the numerous
> volunteers that actually created the various Kermit versions? Would
> Columbia refuse contributions covered by the GNU public license?
>
First let me say that we have always gone out of our way to publicly
acknowledge all contributed code and bug fixes, and publicly thank and
praise the contributors.  I believe, but I can't swear, that everybody who
makes such contributions understands that they are going into copyrighted
software.  Nobody has ever complained about this.  This is a system that
works -- the contributors get the features and fixes they want, and these
get supported and carried forward into new releases, and lots of other
people benefit at the same time.  If you're asking me, do I make them sign
a waiver, no I do not.

Can we get real here for a minute?  This used to be a collegial,
cooperative, worldwide effort, unhampered by pointless legalisms, from
which *everybody* benefitted -- even significant numbers of entrepreneurs
after they entered into agreements with us.  It even used to be... fun.
Kermit has played a major role in many humanitarian causes -- cancer and
AIDS research, Bosnian war relief, ozone layer research in Antarctica,
space exploration, etc etc, where the cost of any other solution would
have been prohibitive -- it has saved lives, promoted communication in
parts of the world that could not have accomplished it any other way,
helped to spread democracy (more about this next month), and much more.
On a more mundane level, I would venture to say that it has saved
universities, governments, and other cash-poor institutions billions of
dollars, which ultimately would have come out of your pocket in taxes or
tuition.

Who on this planet has suffered from how we conduct our business?  Now you
want us to bring in the lawyers and accountants?

> 5) Long ago I must have read something like: Kermit is not public domain
> to prevent others from slapping their copyright mark on it. This way,
> it would be truly free for everybody to use it for whatever purpose. It
> is freer than public domain. Correct?
>
In a sense, it is.  The copyright notice prevents commercial enterprises
from distributing our software without our permission.  It places no
restrictions on anybody's use of the software, only the redistribution of it
by commercial enterprises.

> 5A) If I create a program and put it in the public domain, could someone
> take it, change two comments, and exclusively own that entire modified
> program?
>
Yes.  And if you were still using your own copy of it, they could take you
to court.  There was a case about 15 years ago where a university had to
pay a big settlement in court because an entrepeneur took their
public-domain code, which they had written themselves for their own use,
slapped his copyright on it, and then sued them for using it.  Sorry, I
can't recall the name or docket-number of the case, but there really was
a case like this.

> 6) Suppose I run a commercial business for profit. Can I freely use
> the Kermit program? Even if my business consists entirely of transfering
> files through modems using Kermit?
>
Yes, on your computer.  But you can't give out copies of our software to
your customers without our permission.

Obviously, however, if you were a very rich and prominent business,
it might be in your interest to help support our continued work -- if
we went under, then so could you.

> These are my questions. Certainly, people interested in ftp-archives
> and CD-ROM will have additional questions. For me, as a layman in law,
> the copyright statement of Kermit sometimes needs some clarification.
>
I think what disturbs me most about this discussion is that people seem
to be more concerned with "how can we make money from this?" than "how can
I get it for my own use?" or "how can I learn to use it more effectively?".

If you want to make money from our work, then you will have to share that
money with us.

If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to spend one red
cent.  If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you advocate, then everybody
who uses it would have to (a) send us money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become
an outlaw.  That would include the universities, government agencies,
research institute, hospitals, convents, and orphanages.

Why don't we give it rest, eh?  Thanks.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 16:09:59 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:09:59 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 42
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In article <36mj8t$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
> In article <36l7j2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> >Looking at the larger issues - beyond the Kermit/Columbia/SimTel/Garbo
> >situation - notice that the economic viability of marketing software
> etc etc...
>
Yes, Timo.  We are living in times when the Internet is changing from
a publicly sponsored medium for the free exchange of "ideas" (in the
broadest sense) to a commodity exchange.  This is one of the growing
pains.  To compound the problem, most newcomers to the Internet view it
as a giant bag of free goodies and have no conception of the amount of
work that went into establishing the foundations of the Internet, and
all the software and other resources that lay at their fingertips.  The
idea is to take what you can get and run, and pay no thought to tomorrow.

> I must confess that I am worried about the current trend which the
> Kermit restriction exemplifies as one of the many.  HERE IS THE
> POINT: Taken to the extremes this general trend will begin to affect
> the responsibly acting FTP sites, and the FREE services they provide
> to the net.  Already the trend has caused a lot of extra work also
> to the FTP site maintainers.  That extra work taxes our resources
> and takes away from the services we provide, and it affects the
> motivation of FTP site maintainers.  (Just like this unfortunately
> taxes Frank's capacity).
>
Actually, this new trend is only the expected and logical outcome of
the trend that directly preceded it -- the commercialization of the net
by turning ftp archive sites into CD-ROM masters.  The net was not
designed for that.  Now it seems we all have to do more work, and as
Timo observes, that work must be paid for.  Soon there will be
bureaucracies, regulating agencies, waivers, loyalty oaths, and taxes
(in one form or another) to pay for them.  Who will benefit?  The
lawyers and investors.

> Sigh!  This no longer feels like only a comp.protocols.kermit.misc
> subject.  Maybe we should find a more appropriate newsgroup for
> discussing the broader issue and its imlications.
>
Ha ha, good luck, Timo!  It took me *months* to get this newsgroup
established, and boy am I glad I did!

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 16:16:06 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta
Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:16:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 87
Message-Id: <36mmc6$[e-mail]>
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In article <36mi9l$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>lIn article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Greg Lehmann) writes:
>
>> I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have
>> a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a
>> vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the
>> accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a
>> vt220 and 1now I need to change a few things, without access to a real
>> vt220 anymore.  The document is in french.
>>
>It all works, but C-Kermit is not a mind reader.  French can be represented
>by at least the following character sets on the host:
>
>  ISO 646 French national version (7-bit)
>  The VTxxx Canadian French "NRC" (7-bit)
>  ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1 (8-bit)
>  DEC Multinational Character set (8-bit)
>  Data General International (8-bit)
>  Hewlett-Packard Roman8 (8-bit)
>  NeXT Multinational (8-bit)
>
> ... to name a few.  Kermit understands all of these, but you have to tell
>it which one to use.  The comand is SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET.  Come to

This part is correct.  Word Perfect exists on the Sun as a Sun executable.
There was no file transfer.  So don't worry about the IBM code pages.
>
>Secondly, if the file is encoded in an 8-bit character you have to make
>sure that you have opened up an 8-bit connection to the Sun.  Tell
>C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8.  You might also have to tell the Sun
>to "stty pass8".

This is accurate.

>You also have to be using an 8-bit clean editor on the
>Sun, such as EMACS 19 or Mule.  EMACS 18 won't do it.  I don't know about
>VI, but I doubt it.

Again.  Don't worry about this.  You are using Word Perfect as your editor.

>> The first thing I notice is
>> that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is
>> in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working?
>>
>There was a bug in OS/2 C-Kermit in some of the 5A(190) Alphas and Betas,
>now fixed.  Line graphics work fine in the copy that you will find on
>kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, file cku190.zip.
>
>- Frank

Just set the character set to an appropriate one.  And us the Updates
command to view the CKERMIT.INF file.  Look up the Compose command which
will allow you to easily enter all of the accented characters.

Have a nice day.

x
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Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 16:28:00 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:28:00 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <36mn2g$[e-mail]>
References: <36mga2$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <36mga2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
Rahardjo) writes:
> You have a view that these 3rd parties are scums, milking your sweat,
> where actually they help you distribute your program. Where is your
> compassion too?
>
Not all all.  Timo and Keith are good guys.  But our interests in this
matter our diametrically opposed.  Let me ONCE AGAIN very briefly say:

  CDROMs are perfect for distributing shareware.  I praise Timo,
  Keith, Walnut Creek, and everybody who distributes shareware on
  CDROMs or any other way.  CDROMs are also good for *true* freeeware,
  i.e. software whose development and maintenance does not need to
  be supported in any way, but in that case you get what you pay for.

CDROMs, however, are not good for distributing software that does not
fall into these categories.  Kermit is such software.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 16:25:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (WhoWantsTaKnow)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: SLOW downloads
Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:25:45 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Lines: 16
Message-Id: <36mmu9$[e-mail]>
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I use KERMIT as my primary(only) comm. software, mostly to tie into my
University's computer(internet) and to download files. The problem I
have, even when connecting at speeds of 9600 and above, my download time
is so slow. It takes more than an hour to dowload a 1 meg file. Is this
normal, and if not, what can be done to fix it? Thanks!


--
Bill Maly
[e-mail]







From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 16:49:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (James Sturdevant)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question
Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:49:56 GMT
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 27
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Joe Doupnik ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <36fu6e$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Sturdevant) writes:
: > Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: > : In article <36evui$[e-mail]>
: > : [e-mail] writes:
: > : >   This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do
: > : > about it:  Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed).  Is there
: > : > anyway to suppress this?   That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET
: > : > character?
: > : >
: > [Snip] Advice on redefining keys...
: >
: > That works on most keys...  Two keys left of the the "dual entry" table are
: > Ctrl-J/Ctrl-Enter and Esc/Ctrl-[.  I believe that these are the only two (on
: > standard 101 keyboards) that cannot be independently defined.
: >
: > JamesS
: ----------
:     Yup. Control-Enter is ^J from the Bios and we can't distinguish it
: from typing Control-J. It is one of the many "features" of the IBM PC Bios.
:     Joe D.
Yes, but there are different scan codes along with the ascii code. You
differentiate between the enter key and ctrl-M, the duplicate keys on the
keypad and the keyboard, etc.  All I am interested in is differentiating these
keys also.  (I have source code if you want it!)

JamesS

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 17:18:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: SLOW downloads
Date: 2 Oct 1994 17:18:05 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 152
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In article <36mmu9$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(WhoWantsTaKnow) writes:
> I use KERMIT as my primary(only) comm. software, mostly to tie into my
> University's computer(internet) and to download files. The problem I
> have, even when connecting at speeds of 9600 and above, my download time
> is so slow. It takes more than an hour to dowload a 1 meg file. Is this
> normal, and if not, what can be done to fix it? Thanks!
>
>
Oh good, we have come full circle.  I now reproduce my very first posting
to this newsgroup.  Ah, memories...

To answer your question, somewhat longwindedly, since this Question is
Asked so Frequently :-) ...

Zmodem is optimized for speed on the assumption that it has a clear 8-bit
transparent channel with no blockages (small buffers, etc), and so, out of
the box, when it works it goes fast.  The tradeoff is that it often does
not work at all, in which case you have to configure it in various ways --
escaping of control characters, changing window size, etc.  In some cases
it can't be made to work at all, either because of the nature of the
connection, or because of one or both of the computers on the two ends.

Kermit, on the other hand, is configured to work -- i.e. transfer files --
out of the box, even under hostile conditions.  By default, it does not
assume that control characters pass through transparently, nor that large
buffers are available.  It does not even assume a full-duplex connection.
The tradeoff is speed.

In a perfect world, there would be no tradeoffs, but the world is far from
perfect.  7-bit transmission is still extremely common, small buffers are
very common, even in modern terminal servers and other communications
processors, flow control is rarely implemented correctly and effectively,
telephone lines are still noisy, and we still have a bewildering array
of communication methods needed for accessing different kinds of hosts and
services.  Most PCs are still shipped with non-buffered UARTs; many PCs
have interrupt conflicts, noisy buses, etc; many modern modems are buggy.
The list goes on.  This is by way of demonstrating that Kermit's default
tuning is not crazy, and goes a long way towards explaining its justified
reputation for dependability.

Unfortunately, because of the tradeoffs necessary to achieve its
reliability, Kermit has a reputation for slowness:

  Yes, Kermit transfers are slow if you use the default tuning.

However, you can make Kermit go as fast the communication path will permit
by changing a few parameters.  But first, here are some general principles
that apply to all communications software:

 1. Ensure that you have an effective means of flow control enabled at
    every juncture along the communication path (this applies to any file
    transfer protocol).  For example, when using high-speed,
    error-correcting modems, you should use some form of hardware flow
    control, most commonly RTS/CTS.  You have to tell the software to use
    it, AND you have to tell the modem to use it too -- if the flow
    control methods of the PC and the modem do not agree, then data will
    be lost.

 2. If your modem is capable of data compression, use it.  Fix the
    interface speed of the software to four times the connection speed if
    possible -- e.g. for a V.32bis 14400 bps connection, use an interface
    speed of 57600, or else the modem's compression capacity is likely to
    be wasted.

 3. On network connections (e.g. TCP/IP), it is usually best to turn off
    flow control entirely, because the underlying networking method
    supplies fully effective flow control.

Now, to make Kermit go fast, follow these steps:

 1. Use real Kermit software, not the many shareware and commercial
    packages, most of whose Kermit protocol implementations lack the
    performance features listed below and/or the means for the user to
    control them.

 2. Use long packets.  Kermit's default packet length is 94.  You can
    increase it to a theoretical maximum of 9024.  Give the following
    command to the file receiver:

      SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 2000  ; (or other length)

    The longer you make the packets, the more efficient the file transfer
    will be... IF IT WORKS.  If you make packets longer than some buffer
    somewhere along the line, and effective flow control is lacking, the
    transfer might not work.  Also, the longer the packet, the greater
    the chance it will be hit by noise, and the longer it takes to
    retransmit.

 3. On full duplex connections, use sliding windows.  Sliding windows
    allow packets to be transmitted in a continuous stream, rather than
    "stop and wait" style.  The command is:

      SET WINDOW 4 ; (or other number)

    The maximum is 32 (or less, depending on the implementation).  Give
    this command to *both* Kermit programs.

For text files and uncompressed binary files, this should give you very
good performance -- efficiencies in the 85%-100% range.  For compressed
files, and certain other types of binary files, you can squeeze out
another 20-25% efficiency by telling Kermit not to prefix a given list of
control characters.  A typical sequence might be:

  SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL  ;  Unprefix all control characters.
  SET CONTROL PREFIX 0 1 13 129 141 ...  ; Add back prefixes for these.

This requires a lot of trial and error because there is no way that a
communication software program can know what characters are safe and
which ones are not on a particular connection.  For example, you might be
going through an X.25 PAD where Ctrl-P will pop you back to the PAD
prompt.  Or you might be going through a TELNET terminal server where
Ctrl-] or Ctrl-^ will pop you back to the terminal server prompt.  Or the
connection might be using Xon/Xoff flow control, and sending Ctrl-S as a
data character might freeze the connection.

If you take all of these steps, using optimal packet lengths, window
sizes, and unprefixing, you should achieve transfer rates comparable to,
and often better than, the Zmodem implementations that you find in Telix,
Procomm, and similar shareware and commercial packages; for example, on a
V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis connection, RTS/CTS flow control, no parity, 57600
bps interface speed:

  Typical text files:        3500 cps (characters per second)
  Uncompressed binary files: 2400 cps (e.g. PC KERMIT.EXE)
  Compressed files:          1600 cps (e.g. ZIP files)

These figures come from Kermit News #5, June 1993, which is available via
anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/e, file
newsn5.txt (ASCII) or newsn5.ps (PostScript).  Also see newsn4.txt (.ps)
for a detailed discussion of long packets and sliding windows.

Kermit software is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu
[128.59.39.2], directory kermit and its subdirectories.  There are
literally hundreds of different Kermit programs for *almost* every machine
and operating system imaginable.  The most widely used Kermit programs
are:

 . MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 for DOS and Windows.
   No, this is not a native Windows application, but yes, this
   is the software we recommend for Windows.
   File: kermit/bin/msvib.zip.

 . C-Kermit 5A(189) for UNIX, VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, the Commodore Amiga, etc.
   UNIX: kermit/bin/cku190.tar.Z.
   VMS: Get kermit/b/ckvaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there.
   Others: Get kermit/b/ckaaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there.

 . IBM Mainframe Kermit-370 for VM/CMS, MVS/TSO, CICS, and MUSIC.
   kermit/b/ik*.*.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 18:17:30 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Policy, final word
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:17:30 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 21
Message-Id: <36mtfq$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Signing off from this discussion:

 a. Apologies to anyone I have offended, and to anyone else who might
    have been offended by anything that has passed through this newsgroup
    even if it wasn't offensive.

 b. If you want to use Kermit softwre, go ahead and use it.  Same as
    always.  No change.

 c. If you want to *sell* Kermit software, get in touch with us and we'll
    talk about it.  Same as always, no change.  (Lest I have misspoken
    again, then let me rephrase: If you want to sell an object or other
    entity that has Kermit software engraved, embedded, inscribed, or
    otherwise adhering to it or imprinted upon its molecular structure,
    in a fashion that is retrievable or usable by your customers or
    clients, also please consult with us first.)

 d. If all you want is an argument, there is a great Monty Python skit
    I can recommend ... :-)

- Frank

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 19:00:45 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 19:00:45 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 23
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Denis McKeon ([e-mail]) wrote:
: The CDROM entrepreneur and the software developer/supporters
: are faced with negotiating issues like those Frank has outlined
: (who gets how much from CDROM sales, how to recover support costs,
: whether focus on support or on development.)  Like it or not,
: those issues and the various contracts cost money.

: The bottom line is that with that additional cost threshold, it is more
: difficult to find an exploitable niche.

I don't think we need to worry about what would happen to the
PD/shareware CD-ROM vendors if "everything like Kermit" had similar
distribution policies.  There simply isn't that much stuff out there
that is high quality, free, complex enough to require substantial
support, and well supported, which is my definition of "like Kermit."

And even if there was, it's the developers' call to make.

--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 18:40:51 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Hurwit)
Subject: Re: SLOW downloads
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Organization?  What organization?
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Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 18:40:51 GMT
Lines: 22
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In article <36mmu9$[e-mail]>,
WhoWantsTaKnow ([e-mail]) wrote:

>I use KERMIT as my primary(only) comm. software, mostly to tie into my
>University's computer(internet) and to download files. The problem I
>have, even when connecting at speeds of 9600 and above, my download time
>is so slow. It takes more than an hour to dowload a 1 meg file. Is this
>normal, and if not, what can be done to fix it? Thanks!

    o If the file is not already compressed, compress it.
    o Use (reasonably) long packets-- 1K-2K works well.
    o Use sliding windows (3-5 usually works well).
    o Unprefix as many control characters as you can (this requires
      experimentation, but in general you need to prefix OS-sensitive
      characters such as ^C (DOS and Unix), ^Z (Unix), and also ^M
      (CR), ^J (LF), ^A (start of packet), etc).
    o Get the latest Kermit software; older versions don't support
      these features.
    o Read the help files and spend some time experimenting to find out
      how to make and optimize these settings.

                        Jeff

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 19:12:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 19:12:33 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 29
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References: <36lpdt$[e-mail]> <36ml93$[e-mail]>
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Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36ml93$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
:In article <36lpdt$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roland Kwee)
:writes:
:> 3) In the case of the Simtel/Garbo CD's, did I understand it correcly
:> that Columbia told them that the distribution of Kermit required an
:> agreement with Columbia?
:>
:More to the point: the copyright notice says that, and the copyright
:notice was overlooked.

Exactly.  That is true.  And, as you know, as responsible net
citizens we remedied the situation at our end immediately when we
realized the conditions.  I am *NOT* objecting, but the sadly funny
part is that the more responsibly one acts the more often one gets
bitten.  I am not changing that, though.

:Who on this planet has suffered from how we conduct our business?  Now you
:want us to bring in the lawyers and accountants?

Frank, on the lighter side of things.  Do you realize that I *AM* an
accountant.  Perhaps it explains everything :-).

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 22:34:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Greg Lehmann)
Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: CSIRO Queensland Centre for Advanced Technologies
References: <[e-mail]> <36mi9l$[e-mail]> <36mmc6$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 22:34:46 GMT
Lines: 81
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman) writes:

>In article <36mi9l$[e-mail]>,
>Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>lIn article <[e-mail]>
>>[e-mail] (Greg Lehmann) writes:
>>
>>> I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have
>>> a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a
>>> vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the
>>> accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a
>>> vt220 and 1now I need to change a few things, without access to a real
>>> vt220 anymore.  The document is in french.
>>>
>>It all works, but C-Kermit is not a mind reader.  French can be represented
>>by at least the following character sets on the host:
>>
>>  ISO 646 French national version (7-bit)
>>  The VTxxx Canadian French "NRC" (7-bit)
>>  ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1 (8-bit)
>>  DEC Multinational Character set (8-bit)
>>  Data General International (8-bit)
>>  Hewlett-Packard Roman8 (8-bit)
>>  NeXT Multinational (8-bit)
>>
>> ... to name a few.  Kermit understands all of these, but you have to tell
>>it which one to use.  The comand is SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET.  Come to

>This part is correct.  Word Perfect exists on the Sun as a Sun executable.
>There was no file transfer.  So don't worry about the IBM code pages.

I did

SET TERM CHAR FRENCH
SET TERM BYTE 8

and checked with show term after starting kermit

>>Secondly, if the file is encoded in an 8-bit character you have to make
>>sure that you have opened up an 8-bit connection to the Sun.  Tell
>>C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8.  You might also have to tell the Sun
>>to "stty pass8".

>This is accurate.

on the sun (sunos 4.1.3) I did an (which was something I hadn't tried before)

stty pass8

>>You also have to be using an 8-bit clean editor on the
>>Sun, such as EMACS 19 or Mule.  EMACS 18 won't do it.  I don't know about
>>VI, but I doubt it.

>Again.  Don't worry about this.  You are using Word Perfect as your editor.

>>> The first thing I notice is
>>> that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is
>>> in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working?
>>>
>>There was a bug in OS/2 C-Kermit in some of the 5A(190) Alphas and Betas,
>>now fixed.  Line graphics work fine in the copy that you will find on
>>kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, file cku190.zip.


I only got the last one from there about 1 week ago.
Still, after all these suggestions, the accents are wrong and there is no
line graphics box around the WordPerfect and Version 5.1 message at
startup. Instead there are J's and K's etc.


>Just set the character set to an appropriate one.  And us the Updates
>command to view the CKERMIT.INF file.  Look up the Compose command which
>will allow you to easily enter all of the accented characters.


Thanks for the help so far but have you any other ideas on what to try?
--
Greg Lehmann,
CSIRO Division of Manufacturing Technology,   Telephone: [phone]
P.O. Box 883, Kenmore, QLD 4069, Australia.   Facsimile: [phone]
2643 Moggill Rd., Pinjarra Hills, QLD 4069.   Internet:  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 23:11:38 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta
Date: 2 Oct 1994 23:11:38 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 22
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Greg Lehmann) writes:
> I did:
>
> SET TERM CHAR FRENCH
> SET TERM BYTE 8
>
But how do you know the character-set is "french"?  How do you know it
is not Latin-1, or DEC-MCS, or one of the others?  Note that "french"
is a 7-bit set, so you don't need to SET TERM BYTE 8 in order to use it.
Ditto for "stty pass8" on the Sun.

Why don't we take this offline -- please send me a message containing:

 . The exact Kermit version, e.g. 5A(190) Beta.23 18 Sep 94.
 . The exact sequence of commands you issued.
 . A uuencoded piece of the file in question so I can figure out
   which character-set it is encoded in.

Thanks.

- Frank <[e-mail]>

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  2 23:54:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Pat Fogarty)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 2 Oct 1994 19:54:37 -0400
Organization: Interpath -- Public Access UNIX for North Carolina
Lines: 15
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It seems to me that if the principals in this brouhaha can agree to
respect each other's positions, all the rest of us should do likewise.

As far as folks without ftp access, there's usually a free BBS around
with it. Or email ftp. Or break down and buy a disk from Columbia. It's
not like there's a new version out three times a year.


My .02; you mileage may vary....


Pat

--
Pat Fogarty    [e-mail]    [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 02:52:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit?
Date: 03 Oct 1994 02:52:31 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software
Lines: 19
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <36el10$[e-mail]>
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Sep 1994 09:04:00 -0600
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36el10$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fozziliny Moo) writes:

   Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just
   load IPX? Or do I use a different driver software?  correctly, upon
   knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I can just go
   into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX.

It's not even that hard.  Just install a packet driver.  Put it at
0x7e (I've never heard any complaints about conflicts at that
interrupt).  So for the NE2000, you'd say "ne2000 0x7e 3 0x300".  Then
set Kermit up to use TCP/IP (and you don't even need the above command
-- it's only used if you have multiple packet drivers), and whooosh,
you're up.

--
-russ <[e-mail]>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | [phone] (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 08:04:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Oct 94 08:04:37 GMT
References: <36lpdt$[e-mail]> <36ml93$[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Lines: 58
X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In <36ml93$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:
> . Columbia gets no income.
> . Real Kermit software loses "market share".
> . The Kermit implementations in many of these programs give
>   Kermit a bad name.
> . These people *are* making money from Kermit -- Look at all the
>   postings on the many newsgroups from people talking about using
>   Kermit in <commercial-or-shareware-package-of-your-choice>.  Who
>   is to say the presence of the word "Kermit" on their package
>   has not affected their sales?
> . We (Columbia) get countless tech support questions from users of
>   these products.  Some of the vendors even go so far as to tell
>   their customers: "Kermit problem? Call Columbia."

Let I start with saying that I don't understand this argument. Frank
stated that they have to distribute copies to het some income. Still he
allows the software on FTP and also maintains the claim that the software is
free, also fine. CDROM whould make the distribution too broad without
generating income; also fine.

Now if I get Kermit from the FTP archive at Columbia and put it on a local
BBS (which is permitted as far as I understood the copyright). Every copy
from the BBS doesn't generate any income. This is also the case if I give
a copy to a friend (and he will pass a copy to his friends because kermit is
great!). The distribution as it is now is a pyramid sceme, generating a lot
of copies without income for Columbia.

Frank explicity prohibited distribution on CDROM with the argument that it
will not generate income. If that is the goal then excluding CDROM is not
enough to accomplish that. The only way to limit copying without income is:

a) You either get it directly from an FTP site on internet.
b) Or you get it by mail order from Columbia.

So no more copying for friends or distribution through BBSses - this will
surely limit the number of copies (and will make it almost impossible in
Europe to get it unless you are connected to Internet or know exactly where
to write to to order it).

But the argument I hear is that the distribution policy is not changed so you
will allow the generation of copies without income as long as it is not
through CDROM - this is the part I don't understand. Do CDROMs contribute so
much to the distribution (and use!) of kermit that it is worthwhile to make
an exception (and make it difficult for us all)? I assume you'll say yes but
frankly I have my doubts.

All I can say is that I came to know kermit trough Garbo; Timo has a lot of
tools for kermit on his system (some of which he created himself) and that's
what caught my attention. We are now considering use of Kermit in a large
project (which we will negotiate with Columbia and pay for of couse) so maybe
the copy of your software on Garbo will pay off in the end.

Henk.

--
  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]
 /---/ __  __  /  Tel: [phone] | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation
/   / (-_ / / /(  Loc: FP-B09        | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 09:40:43 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit packets past 9024 barrier??
Date: 3 Oct 1994 02:40:43 -0700
Organization: MCI Data Services, TYMNET Global Network Operations
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <36ojir$[e-mail]>
References: <367e23$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: tardis.tymnet.com
Summary: 9024 divided by number of windows?
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik) writes:
>> Any way to increase packet sizes past 9024??
>    Read up on Columbia Kermits, discover sliding windows. 31 window
>slots times 9KB per slot/packet = 279KB of stuff to be held pending ack.

Is that something new with version 3.14 or 5A(190)?

The versions of Kermit I've been using limit the buffer to 9024 bytes
total, to be divided between the windows.

    tardis% kermit
    C-Kermit 5A(189), 30 June 93, SunOS 4.1 (BSD)
    Type ? or HELP for help
    C-Kermit>set window 31
     Adjusting receive packet-length to 286 for 31 window slots
    C-Kermit>quit

On a related subject, I have found that when going through TYMNET, I can
get full speed by setting the number of window slots to anything above 1.
In particular, when downloading files from a Sun UNIX host to my Amiga
at home, SET WINDOW 2 is sufficient to keep the receive light flashing
continuously.

    -Joe
--
Joe Smith        MCI Data Services, TYMNET Global Network Operations (Vnet 854)
<[e-mail]>    2560 N 1st St, MS-F2, San Jose, CA 95131     [phone]
CA license plate: "POPJ P,"  36-bits forever! (4 Tymshare PDP-10s still up!)
Humorous disclaimer: "My Amiga 3000 speaks for me."

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 12:08:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:08:53 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 42
Message-Id: <36os8l$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Russell Nelson) writes:
> In article <36el10$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fozziliny
Moo) writes:
>
>    Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just
>    load IPX? Or do I use a different driver software?  correctly, upon
>    knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I can just go
>    into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX.
>
> It's not even that hard.  Just install a packet driver.  Put it at
> 0x7e (I've never heard any complaints about conflicts at that
> interrupt).  So for the NE2000, you'd say "ne2000 0x7e 3 0x300".  Then
> set Kermit up to use TCP/IP (and you don't even need the above command
> -- it's only used if you have multiple packet drivers), and whooosh,
> you're up.
>
Thanks, Russ.

And as Joe pointed, we are absolutely not in the business of recommending
hardware.  But...

It migh be a useful exercise if those of you who are using MS-DOS Kermit's
built-in TCP/IP stack over a network board (not a serial port thru SLIP)
drop a note to [e-mail] listing:

PC hardware and OS and OS version
Network board make and model
Netword board driver(s) and version(s)

so we can compile a list of combinations that are known to work.  While
this list will not comprise any kind of recommendation, it will still be
useful.

And of course if you have a board and/or driver that does not work with
Kermit, let us know too.  We'll try to help you get it going, and if the
combination is hopeless (we don't know of any like this), that's useful
information too.

Thanks.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 12:15:47 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: kermit packets past 9024 barrier??
Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:15:47 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 24
Message-Id: <36oslj$[e-mail]>
References: <36ojir$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36ojir$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Smith)
writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Doupnik)
writes:
> >> Any way to increase packet sizes past 9024??
> >Read up on Columbia Kermits, discover sliding windows. 31 window
> >slots times 9KB per slot/packet = 279KB of stuff to be held pending ack.
> Is that something new with version 3.14 or 5A(190)?
> The versions of Kermit I've been using limit the buffer to 9024 bytes
> total, to be divided between the windows.
>
Not at all.  As Joe says, you can have 31 x 9024 packets in the pipe at
once.  In the new versions (3.14 and 5A(190)), 32 x 9024.

Obviously, you need the memory to hold all these packet buffers.
32 x 9024 = 288768 bytes.  In MS-DOS Kermit, that means free physical
conventional memory.  (Yes, we considered putting packet buffers "high",
but it turns out to be a bad idea for performance reasons.)

In C-Kermit, you might have to give a SET BUFFERS command first, to allocate
the buffer memory.  This might seem silly to you, but there is a good reason
for it -- see the documentation.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:15:58 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for DOS/V (Kanji Terminal Emulation)
Date: 3 Oct 1994 13:15:58 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 31
Message-Id: <36p06e$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Keywords: Kanji
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

On 20 Sep 1994, [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth) wrote:
> Does anyone know the current state of kermit for DOS/V (the
> IBM/Microsoft dual mode version for Japanese/English)?  I have a 3.13
> beta from a site in Japan, but it has one bug that renders it almost
> unusable.  The code conversion does not work properly for Old-Jis
> coding as used by Japan's largest commercial database vendor, Nikkei
> Telecom.
>
I don't know about the 3.13 beta you have -- Kanji terminal emulation for
DOS/V might or might not be in it.  It will be in version 3.14 when it is
announced (hopefully very soon).  I sent your question to the person who
wrote the Kanji terminal support for MS-DOS Kermit and received this
response:

"Sorry for the delay.

"I don't know about the Nikkei Data Base, and unfortunately, I have
no friends who are using that DataBase.

"However, I got another report from someone who is using the Nikkei
Telecom DataBase, and he pointed out that Nikkei Telecom uses an
improper ESC sequence to designate the JIS X 201 character set.  This
is a well-known wrong sequence which was implemented in very very old
software, and the sequence is 'ESC ( H' which should be used to
designate the Swedish character set."

So it looks like the right thing to do would be to get Nikkei Telecom
to fix their character-set designating escape sequence.  If this is not
the correct answer, let me know.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:14:37 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Transparent kermit servers
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: 03 Oct 1994 13:14:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 17
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Why is it that I have to issue local kermit commands as well as remote
ones. Would it not be possible to have the local copy of Kermit simply
respond to the start of packet characters and behave like a server at
all times?

Similarly would it be possible (on suitable OSs) to have the kermit
server program pass all non-kermit characters to another process via a
virtual terminal thus allowing the use of a mixture of Kermit server
commands and direct host OS interaction without the need to start the
and stop the remote server?
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:21:55 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Undocumented kermit server commands?
Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Date: 03 Oct 1994 13:21:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK.
Lines: 22
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

I've looked in "Kermit, A file transfer protocol" but I cannot find
docuemntation of what the "REMOTE SET" command sends to the server.

It appears to send a kermit generic command (packet type "G") with a
command "S".

I have assumed that this is equivlent to a command "V", subcommand
"S". Am I right?

Is there a table anywhere that list the standard variable names
(numbers?).

I would go look in the source myself but I read somewhere that
because I'm incorporating support for kermit protocols into another
program I'm not allowed to even *look at* the sources!
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: [e-mail]
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: [phone] (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |  [phone] (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:48:20 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Transparent kermit servers
Date: 3 Oct 1994 13:48:20 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <36p234$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
> Why is it that I have to issue local kermit commands as well as remote
> ones. Would it not be possible to have the local copy of Kermit simply
> respond to the start of packet characters and behave like a server at
> all times?
>
Yes, it should be.  Read the release notes (.upd files) for the forthcoming
new versions of MS-DOS Kermit, C-Kermit, and IBM mainframe Kermit.

> Similarly would it be possible (on suitable OSs) to have the kermit
> server program pass all non-kermit characters to another process via a
> virtual terminal thus allowing the use of a mixture of Kermit server
> commands and direct host OS interaction without the need to start the
> and stop the remote server?
>
How does the server tell the difference between non-Kermit characters
and a trashed Kermit packet?

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:50:46 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Undocumented kermit server commands?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 13:50:46 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 12
Message-Id: <36p27m$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:
> I've looked in "Kermit, A file transfer protocol" but I cannot find
> docuemntation of what the "REMOTE SET" command sends to the server.
>
For now, it's still in Info-Kermit Digest V 11 # 1, 4 Jan 1990,
available on kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/e, file mail.90a.

- Frank
x
x


From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:48:47 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright
References: <36lpdt$[e-mail]> <36ml93$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:48:47 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 30
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Dear Frank,

    I've been a quiet viewer of this discussion.

    You have my upmost respect and admiration for Kermit, for making
yourself available (which took more guts than I can ever imagine having),
for sticking to your guns.

    I'm not much of a prayer but you have my prayers, Frank.  Kermit
has saved me more times than I can count.  Whenever my hard drive decides
not to work, and I need to get online to finish up a project (or to read
news, answer mail), I pop in my emergency bootup-Kermit diskette.  Nothing
else is as reliable as Kermit.  Nothing else is as sturdy, dependable and
nearly as marvelous as Kermit.

I've advocated its use by local BBS sysops so that they can impliment the
"real" Kermit.  Most of them have purchased the manuals from the local
Barnes & Noble so that they could make the most out of it.

And seeing the dedication of Frank to following his ideals, I will
finally (finally!) purchase the documentation, as I'm at the point where
the things I want to do I simply *can't* do without knowing more of what
I'm doing :-)

You have my blessings, Frank, and the Kermit development team.


Ken
[e-mail]
Listowner of [e-mail] - Discussion on the rights of kids/teens

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 13:32:32 1994
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From: Nicolay V. Danilov <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Where can I get SUPER KERMIT protocol description ?
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 17:32:32 +0400
Distribution: world
Organization: Private Person
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        I need a SUPER KERMIT protocol, used in Sprint Networks
desctiption and/or C source code.



From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 16:25:08 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:25:08 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
Lines: 28
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <36pb94$[e-mail]>
References: <36hv50$[e-mail]> <36i5s7$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Sergio Fanchiotti <[e-mail]> wrote:

:Keith & Frank,
:
:
:    Well, as someone looking at this silly discussion for some time
:    it seems that the time has come to get to work on a GPL'd version
:    of a portable data transfer program like Kermit (As Les said before).

Actually a terminal emulator which could easily be expanded to cover a
number of protocols would be nice, just as ghostscript can include
target formats. I think the obvious choices are Kermit, Xmodem (for
historical reasons), and zmodem.

The question is can someone come up with a better file transfer protocol
and include that, thus eventually driving out the lesser protocols
eventually? As I see it:
 1. fast, performance like zmodem.
 2. ability to continue if connections are lost (again like zmodem).
 3. bidirectional, to use links better.

Maybe we're reinventing IP? Anyway, I think the time has come, now that
the distribution of Kermit has been officially limited.
--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 16:36:03 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:36:03 -0400
Organization: Prodigy Services
Lines: 26
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In article <36h490$[e-mail]>,
Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
:In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]

:As somebody pointed out yesterday, something *is* wrong with this picture
:if this debate must be carried out over and over again.  Maybe what is
:wrong is that we -- silly us -- are still basically trying to provide a
:public service: FREE SOFTWARE, of high quality, with solid technical support
:behind it, all free.  All we ask in return is that at enough of you purchase
:the accompanying manuals to keep us afloat, and that you stop haranging us
:for our commercial-redistribution policies and let us get on with our work
:on your behalf.  Maybe it will turn out that we really do have to change
:the way we get income; I hope not.

I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
people have the software completely eludes me.

My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep
you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit
motive.
--
Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy
    "Pain builds moral fiber"  -my dad
    "Pain hurts"  -me

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 12:41:26 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:41:26 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 9
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Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc.
Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol.

-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 18:16:11 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 3 Oct 1994 18:16:11 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 18
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In article <36ou5m$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
Rahardjo) writes:
> Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc.
> Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-)
> Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol.
>
I don't get it.  Why create a parallel universe?  What would GNU
Kermit get *you* that you don't already get from Columbia?  Public
domain software than anybody could sell?  No...  Software that costs *you*
less than Columbia Kermit (i.e. nothing)?  No...  Then what?

To recreate the Kermit universe will take years of work by lots of people,
and some of them will have to be full-time, or it won't succeed.  In other
words, you'll end up just like us, and for that matter the FSF -- needing
operating funds.  Unless you are independently wealthy, and willing to
bankroll the operation out of your pocket.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 17:17:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Rothstein)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 17:17:31 GMT
Organization: Kent State University
Lines: 41
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In article <36hsus$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
 (Frank da Cruz) writes:
(snip, snip)
}I really wish I did not have to keep repeating myself -- it is really
}boring.  There is a paradox here: the more our software is spread to the
}general public on CDROM, and the more popular it becomes, the more work
}we have (tech support), the less time we have to devote to development,
}and the less money we have to pay for tech support AND development.
}
}Thus, the policy you are advocating is a very short-sighted one, the result
}of which would be that everybody would get Kermit software for "a fraction
}of a penny", and the Kermit effort would get nothing: our marketplace would
}disappear -- because nobody in their right mind would pay $35 for the same
}thing (more or less -- there is also the manual to consider) they can get
}for a third of a penny.  Meanwhile, since they do not have the manual, they
}pester us to death with questions that are already answered there.  Work
}grows to infinity, income shrinks to zero, and poof, you've killed it.
}Well, hooray, hooray, now we all have just what we wanted and it was free,
}so we won!  Yay!  But then technology changes, operating systems change,
}communication and networking methods change, and you are now left to the
}tender mercies of all those commercial and shareware software producers who
}care so much about quality and support.
}
}I'm sorry, it's a whole package -- if you don't like it, don't use it, and
}let us get on with devloping and supporting it for those who do,
}
}- Frank

Here is a different idea: make Kermit available the way it was before, but
**only** answer tech questions on a 900 line; this would enable you to
get the funds you need for tech support, and you could always slip in
a plug for the documentation instead of the hold muzak.
You might argue that overseas people don't have access to the 900 line,
which is true, but I think overseas people have to think twice before
calling in for support except for emergencies: calls from overseas are
***real***expensive***.

--
Michael Rothstein (Kent State U)| Any similarity between Kent State's opinions
([e-mail])        | and my opinions is strictly coincidential.
The only way to tell you're sane is with a certificate from the insane asylum.

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 18:33:14 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 3 Oct 1994 18:33:14 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 43
Message-Id: <36pipa$[e-mail]>
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Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu
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In article <36pbtj$[e-mail]>,
Bill Davidsen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>In article <36h490$[e-mail]>,
>Frank da Cruz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>:In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.
>
There is a huge difference.  The shareware premise starts out by saying that
everybody that uses the software must pay money.  Some do and most don't
but you don't chase people because it doesn't pay too.

Kermit says, the software is free provided you receive it from some
electronic means: ftp, gopher, www, bbs, ...

Kermit may not be distributed by anyone that charges money for physical
media or that includes kermit as part of a larger package WITHOUT PERMISSION.
In other words, shareware libraries via mail; operating systems; Internet
access packages; third party terminal emulators or BBS programs.

Kermit is like your local museum or zoo which asks for a donation but will
let you in if you choose not to pay one (except for those special exhibits).

Shareware MUST be paid for, otherwise, you are breaking the law.  How many
people in this group are using Unregistered versions of DSZ, or ZOC, or
Telix, or ...?  If you continue, using them without registering you break
the law.  Will you be caught, not likely.  But you are still guilty.

Kermit is FREE.  If you use it without ordering a manual, no big deal.
Its FREE.  If you need technical support, you will get it FREE.  However,
we would like you to order the manual.  It reduces the need for technical
support and makes it easier to provide it when you do need it.  But
do you have to pay something, yes for the manual, no for anything else.

Can we get onto something else?

Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * [phone]
"C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software."
"Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed."
OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 20:04:20 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:04:20 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Lines: 17
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Bill Davidsen) writes:
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.

In my opinion Kermit became CRIPPLEWARE several years ago when Columbia
University stopped providing the full documentation as a file which could
be downloaded.  This forces users to purchase the book if they wish to
take full advantage of the software.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 21:12:25 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 3 Oct 1994 21:12:25 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 23
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Bill Davidsen ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
: shareware works.

Simple:  Kermit is free; shareware is not.

I am free to scatter Kermit all over my department, making it the
standard terminal emulation package for faculty, students, custodians,
etc., without paying a penny.

I wouldn't do this with shareware.  Unless I pay, it is against the law.
Shareware is not free.

Besides, the distribution decision is the developers' call to make.
Every possible argument for a change of policy has already been
presented.  Anything more is just hassle.  Please, thank them or
leave them alone.

--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 20:04:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jamie Watson)
Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36kaa4$[e-mail]> <36l69c$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:04:52 GMT
Expires: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT
Lines: 74
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>With all due respect, Kermit is not the work of one individual.  A
>number of people have invested time and energy and resources into
>making Kermit what it is today.

I've stayed out of this (publicly) as long as I can.  I'm sorry to be
fueling a discussion that I wish would simply die out...

Kermit is primarily the work of a *very* small number of people, helped
along to a *very* small amount of work contributed by a large number of
people.  Besides the group at Columbia, I would guess that there are
perhaps 10 people in the world who have contributed a quantity of work
that should be considered "substantial" in comparison with what has
been done at Columbia.  I'm not trying to denigrate anyone here, and
I am speaking from experience.  I have been contributing to the C-Kermit
effort for several years now.  On a few occasions, when my schedule and
interest permitted, I have contributed a considerable amount of work.
But I have no delusions as the the magnitude of my contribution compared
to the overall kermit effort - or even the overall C-Kermit effort.  I
certainly don't presume to attempt to tell Frank how kermit can or can
not be distributed because of my contribution.

>This isn't just about Simtel and
>Garbo, but about anyone who cuts a CD for an OS -- note that some
>vendors no longer ship kermit with their OS, like DEC OSF/1 and BSDI.

Well, is this supposed to be a negative point?  My experience has been
that virtually all of these are distributing versions of kermit that
are so old they are very limited in usefulness, and are virtually
certain to generate loads of requests to Columbia for help - exactly
what Frank has been saying they want to stop.

>And let's not forget those benevolent FTP archives who (ahem) do
>dervie some amount of money from grants or corporate funding by
>maintaining an FTP archive, like wuarchive and sunsite (just to name
>two biggies) and may have a moneyary incentive (however slight) to
>keep Kermit online, thus supposedly putting themselves at odds with
>the Columbia people.

There are real issues here, and Frank has already discussed them.

>Already, it appears that Kermit is suffering
>something of a decline as overall line quality improves, and the
>omnipotent GUI has emerged.  So tell me, honestly, do YOU think that
>documentation sales are going to keep Kermit alive, or is it going
>to just die and spell the end of an era.

This is pure opinion.  I don't agree.

>No one wants to denigrate the Kermit developers' efforts toward making
>a quality software product.

So don't do it.

>But it seems like they need some help here,
>and the way they want us to help them doesn't seem to help anyone.
>There appear to be people out there with better funding models, and
>every time someone suggests that a different funding model might better
>serve the interests of everyone involved, we get a lot of voodoo and
>simplistic arguments.

Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here.

>Why isn't this work just funded by Columbia?
>It certainly seems worthwhile enough just in advertising alone.

Have you ever worked in a University environment?  I have, and I can tell
you that just because something "seems worthwhile" doesn't mean it will
be funded by the University.  Please, give Frank credit for a little bit
of intelligence in this area.  I'm quite sure that he has explored the
possibility of getting other kinds of funding.  I suspect that he still
does this on a regular basis.  Just because he doesn't post the details
for public discussion doesn't mean he isn't doing it.

jw

From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 20:01:02 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:01:02 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 67
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

>:As somebody pointed out yesterday, something *is* wrong with this picture
>:if this debate must be carried out over and over again.  Maybe what is
>:wrong is that we -- silly us -- are still basically trying to provide a
>:public service: FREE SOFTWARE, of high quality, with solid technical support
>:behind it, all free.  All we ask in return is that at enough of you purchase
>:the accompanying manuals to keep us afloat, and that you stop haranging us
>:for our commercial-redistribution policies and let us get on with our work
>:on your behalf.  Maybe it will turn out that we really do have to change
>:the way we get income; I hope not.
>
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.

It's a different way of acheiving the same goals.  Except that Frank (and
the Kermit team)'s motives aren't profit oriented - simply enough to
support the project and keep it going.

warning: I am going to use gross generalizations.

Frank 'n co. have a limited staff.  By keeping the distribution to folks
with ftp access and BBS people free, they are distributing it to people
who, generally, have a greater understanding of how the computer works
and how to set things up.

When people buy it with the manual, they have all of the answers that
they need.

HOWEVER - when it is distributed on CD-ROMS - a *lot* of people will get
it.  People who often have had their computers set up, who have a less
extensive knowledge of computers.  I know this is true at least *some* of
the time, because of the kinds of questions I've had to answer about my
Deskmate .snd conversion program from people who found it on CD-ROM's,
versus those who found it on BBS's, versus those who found it on the
Internet.

The CD_ROM people's questions were questions about the simple stuff
(relatively speaking)

The BBS people's questions were about more complex things.

And the Internet people seemed to be asking questions that were beyond my
knowledge.  I could answer most, but some I had to refer to other people,
newsgroups, etc.

I don't mind answering questions at all about it, but with a more general
purpose program like Kermit (more general than my sound converter), there
will be thousands more questions.  What is wrong with Frank and co. saying:

"Look... copy it to whom you wish.  Spread it around.  But a CD-ROM will
simply be a case where its spread around too much.  We just don't have
the support staff."

If they had the money, they could support the extra work.  But they
don't.  People who search for Kermit, know what they want it for, will
find it, and eventually (like myself, shortly) buy the manual.  But
people who see it as one program of thousands aren't as likely to, as it
won't be given the same weight in their minds.

Keep up the good work, Frank.

Remember - this too, shall pass (the dilemna on this newsgroup)

Ken
[e-mail]


From [e-mail] Mon Oct  3 22:52:20 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 22:52:20 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <36kaa4$[e-mail]> <36l69c$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 29
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
>Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here.

Ok, here it is.  I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it.

Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, with voluntary payment for
individuals and required payment for commercial and school use (i.e.,
a site license).  If Columbia charged $300 for a site license, even if
there were only 1,000 customers, the income produced would be $300,000
per year.

That's just a starting point.  I'm sure Columbia would have more than
1,000 paying customers for such a well-supported product as Kermit -
if it was continually updated and improved.  I see no reason why this
funding model should not have the potential to bring in over $500,000
per year.  I feel confident that Columbia would have no trouble getting
releases from the authors of the various flavors of Kermit if they
stressed that this money will be used for product support and improving
the product through future development.

With that kind of income Columbia could hire programmers to write new
flavors of Kermit and to improve the already exiting flavors.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 00:56:33 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 00:56:33 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Keith Petersen) writes:
> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
> >Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here.
> Ok, here it is.  I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it.
> Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, ...
>
It's true, Keith did suggest changing Kermit to shareware.  And various
other people suggested charging for support, setting up 900 numbers, and
so on.  Our many well-wishers do not understand the detailed organizational
and legal constraints under which we operate.  I will only say that I have
not seen a suggestion posted in this discussion, or mailed to me privately,
that I did not already think of myself years ago.  And I think this
discussion is scaring the (substitute appropriate garment) off lots of people
in universities and elsewhere -- needlessly.  Don't worry people, we Kermit
folks have been constant and faithful to you all these years, and the voices
in the newsgroups don't speak for us.  We have no intention of abandoning
our loyal "market niche" to chase after the fast buck, no matter how hard
some people -- and economic forces themselves -- push us to do it.  Your
support and words of encouragement are appreciated.

Thanks.

- Frank



From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 03:13:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:13:34 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
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In <36ps3p$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews) writes:

: Bill Davidsen ([e-mail]) wrote:
: : I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
: : shareware works.

: Simple:  Kermit is free; shareware is not.

: I am free to scatter Kermit all over my department, making it the
: standard terminal emulation package for faculty, students, custodians,
: etc., without paying a penny.

Do they buy the manual ? What's going to happen with they have problems
and call Coulmbia ? Either through CD-ROM or through you, these people
do not get the manuals and hence create more problems for the Kermit's
group when they call the Kermit's group.
This is one of the arguments used to limit the distribution, people
that don't have manuals call them. This I don't undertand, the difference
between CD-ROM distribution and people like you an me distributing
copies of kermit. (money aside,  CD-ROM vendors and myself have the
effects.)

One argument that I do understand, is that the Kermit's developer
doesnot like CD-ROM vendors putting a copy of kermit in their CDs,
without permission. I do understand their view.
IMHO, it's a valid reason.

You know, if the software and book are really good, people will buy
the book. Just like "perl + camel book", "Tk and Tcl + Oustherhout's book".
You don't have to beg people to buy it :-)

Good luck.
-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 03:26:49 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:26:49 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

: [e-mail] (Budi Rahardjo) writes:
: > Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc.
: > Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-)
: > Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol.
: >
: I don't get it.  Why create a parallel universe?  What would GNU
: Kermit get *you* that you don't already get from Columbia?  Public
: domain software than anybody could sell?  No...  Software that costs *you*
: less than Columbia Kermit (i.e. nothing)?  No...  Then what?

Why are there a number of C compilers ? editors ? mail processors?
X windows ? etc.
There are a number of reasons; technical and non-technical.
What GNU Kermit (if such beast exists) get *me* that I don't already
get from Columbia ?
A complete snap-shot of archieve site *including* kermit in a CD.
To me as a user, it is a convenience. But I am just one measly user,
you can just ignore me.


: To recreate the Kermit universe will take years of work by lots of people,
: and some of them will have to be full-time, or it won't succeed.

Are you sure you need full-time people to make it success ?
How about Linux ? perl ? tcl ? ... and many others.

: In other
: words, you'll end up just like us, and for that matter the FSF -- needing
: operating funds.  Unless you are independently wealthy, and willing to
: bankroll the operation out of your pocket.

You are underestimating the power of collaboration of volunteers.

Good luck.
-- budi
--
Budi Rahardjo <[e-mail]>
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

From [e-mail] Sun Oct  4 04:41:13 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Micah Catlin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Windows Kermit?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 23:41:13 -0500
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Robert S. Dangel) writes:
>> Is there a windows version of PC Kermit? I have qmodem Pro and
>> the Kermit protocol doesn't work with the UNIX machines..
>>
>currently version 3.13.  It is a Windows-aware DOS application.  Until
>and unless we are able to create a native Windows version with anywhere

    I have one.

>near the same degree of functionality, we recommend and support MS-DOS
>Kermit for use with Windows.

    I don't know about that, but I have Windoze Kermit.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 04:42:23 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey T Berntsen)
Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
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[e-mail] (Frank da Cruz) writes:

>In article <36ou5m$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Budi
>Rahardjo) writes:
>> Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc.
>> Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-)
>> Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol.
>>
>I don't get it.  Why create a parallel universe?  What would GNU
>Kermit get *you* that you don't already get from Columbia?  Public
>domain software than anybody could sell?  No...  Software that costs *you*
>less than Columbia Kermit (i.e. nothing)?  No...  Then what?

More reasonable distribution.  NOT just Internet FTP.  The GNU project doesn't
CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely
(they don't seem to have any problems with CD-ROM's for instance), and source
is made freely (they also don't seem to have any problems with reasonable
handling and media charges) available.

>To recreate the Kermit universe will take years of work by lots of people,
>and some of them will have to be full-time, or it won't succeed.  In other
>words, you'll end up just like us, and for that matter the FSF -- needing
>operating funds.  Unless you are independently wealthy, and willing to
>bankroll the operation out of your pocket.

Hmmmm..  Now you DO have a point there...

Jeff Berntsen
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 05:26:32 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: USing Unix editors while under kermit
Date: 4 Oct 1994 05:26:32 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 67
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
 : The oddest part is that the program works fine, arrow keys in
 : application, etc - in calling into a VMS system. Is this some
 : sort of anti-unix plot <G>.

It might have something to do with MS-Kermit sending 8 bit control sequences
to your Unix editor.

If you want an editor that works with these control sequences, I suggest
that you try JED.  I created and tested JED using MS-Kermit.  It even
exploits MS-Kermit running on a color PC through color syntax highlighting,
etc....  See jed/doc/color.txt for using JED with MS-Kermit.


JED is available from amy.tch.harvard.edu.  The latest version is 0.97-5b.

List of some of JED's features:

    Runs under Unix, VMS, OS/2, and MSDOS (all versions)

           *  XWindows
       *  DJGPP compiled version for 386/486 PCs support up to
             256 Megs of Virtual Memory.  This also is able
                 to run in a Windows DOS Box.

    Emacs*, wordstar*, EDT* emulation
    C, fortran*, tex*, text editing modes

           * Color Syntax Highlighting on
           ALL systems including dialup --- not just XWindows

    C-like extension language called S-Lang.
    User configurable (bind keys, write functions, etc....)
    Region highlighting (even on character based terminals*)
    8 bit clean, edit binary files too.
    Rectangular (box) cut/paste
    Backup and autosave files
    Full multilevel undo
    Regular expressions
    Gnu Emacs compatable info reader*
    Dynamic Abbreviation Expansion* (ESC /)
    Calendar*
    Mail* and elm like rmail*
    Dired directory editor*
    Automatic horizontal pan/scroll  (configurable)
    Parenthesis matching/blinking
    Filename, buffername, function name completion
    Menu driven for novice users*
    Incremental search/replace*
    Sorting
    No hardcoded buffer/line limits
    Multiple windows and buffers
    Keyboard macros with macro query feature.
    Buffer mode lines are configurable, e.g., display time, line number, etc...
    Ispell*
    Shell commands and ``interactive'' shell*

     * Note:  these functions are written in the extension language.
--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: [e-mail]
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#


From [e-mail] Sun Oct  4 03:30:54 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Richard L. Hamilton)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: looking for suggested parameters
Date: 3 Oct 1994 23:30:54 -0400
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Can anyone suggest "ideal" parameters for use at 9600 to 14400
(V.32 or V.32bis) with compression and error checking?

Right now, my .mykermrc file looks something like:
   set block-check 3
   set buffers 131072 131072
   set file name literal
   set file type binary
   set receive packet-length 4096
   set window-size 31
   ...

That's between a fast Un*x system and my relatively wimpy 3b1,
serial port on the 3b1 set at 19200 (fastest it goes), and
the modem actually maxing out at 1st V.32bis fallback speed of
12000 baud.

--
                      I compute, therefore I am.
My opinions are strictly by own, and should not be construed to represent
anyone else.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 00:04:06 1994
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From: [e-mail] (tom mayo)
Subject: Kermit on CD RAM
Message-Id: <36q65m$[e-mail]>
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Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 00:04:06 GMT
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If you are feeling really grouchy and uptight about the ongoing
Kermit / CD ROM discussions, you may not want to read this.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh, wow.  This new Cheesebox 5000 computer is really snazzy.  It's just
like a TV---but with a typewriter too!

Well, I just got this thing, and wouldn't you know, it's got one of
those CD RAM drives.  Amazing!

Anyway, I think this CD Rome thing is really great, and I want to get
Kermit because I always loved the Muppets---especially the frog!

Do they sell Kermit for my CD RAM?  I can't wait to find out because
the computer also came with a ZModem too.  Maybe I could get Kermit
to sing "It ain't easy being green" over the Zmodem to my sister in
Topeka.

-George Creamcheese

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is my personal creation to be used for entertainment purposes
only.  Please forward all flames to /dev/null.

-Tom Mayo  N1RMU  [e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 08:57:06 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 08:57:06 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 70
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I am writing this time as a management scientist and consultant, not
as Garbo's moderator.

In article <36pipa$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Jeffrey Altman) writes:

:Kermit is FREE.  If you use it without ordering a manual, no big deal.
:Its FREE.  If you need technical support, you will get it FREE.  However,

Here is the core of your the problem provided that you are looking
for a good solution. You, that this the good Columbia people, may
have either of the two goals:

1) Finding a solution that enhances YOUR situation both timewise and
financially.

2) Using every possible argument to defend retaining exactly the
current practices whether they are optimal for you or not.

Please do not be offended, since I am trying to analyze this as
dispassionately as I can as a management scientist now.  I am afraid
that your (Columbia's) goal is rather clearly the second one, that
is pushing the problem under the carpet.  You wish the problem to go
away by itself, or deny that you have a problem by rationalizing
keeping exactly your current practices.  (That's why Frank has even
himself said he keeps repeating himself).  You have every right to
have this goal, but I can assure you that it is bad management.  I
wish you to be aware what your implicit assumptions in this are.
Please do not deceive yourselves.

Assume, however, your goal were the first, or that you can bring
yourself to redefine your true goal to be the first.  In this case
your problem is not generating enough funds.  One of the main
culprits for that is the FREE support you give.  That, not the
CDROMs.  Whatever you decide or have decided with respect to CDROMs
will not solve your problem.  Before one can begin to solve a
management problem one must realize amd definbe what the true
problem is, and here it is not overly difficult to pinpoint.  Onece
you have the problem pinpointed, then, if you truly want to solve
it, you can start looking how well the alternative strategies work
for your goal.

:we would like you to order the manual.  It reduces the need for technical
:support and makes it easier to provide it when you do need it.  But
:do you have to pay something, yes for the manual, no for anything else.

:Can we get onto something else?

Why!?  Is ending the discussion really the topmost priority.  Well,
if you wish to, but problems are not solved by ignoring them.  If
one has a dilemma, and truly wants to solve it, on does not keep
repeating that the discussion should cease.  Decide.  Is your goal
making this discussion to go away, or having a better solution than
what you no have.  Of course I have a vexed interest, but even so,
you are not making the best of this from your OWN point of view
either.

Summary: Decide whether defending you position or solving your
management problem is your underlying goal.  If the latter, identify
your problems, and assess the conquences of the different
alternatives on your goals.  Do it dispassionately and
systematically.

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 09:04:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 09:04:52 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa
Lines: 14
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
:Remember - this too, shall pass (the dilemna on this newsgroup)

Sigh!  Which do the gentle reades consider the bigger problem in
here? The existince of this discussion or Columbia's funding and
time allocation dilemma?

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP  archives  128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: [e-mail]   BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101,  Finland

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 09:06:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: How to catch SHIFT-ESC in kermit
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Oct 94 09:06:53 GMT
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Lines: 44
X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

Hello Kermit users,

I have a problem. Our kermit version is MS-Kermit 3.13 with a patch file with
21 patches in it.

We have to build an application that has to responds to the key combination
SHIFT-ESC. In the key-table you can catch many key combinations but I am
unable to map SHIFT-ESC to something different than ESC alone so I can't
make a distinction between ESC with or without SHIFT.

Is there a way to make it work? It is no problem to do this with other
keys (like function keys), only ESC seems to behave differently. I can
calculate what keycode SHIFT-ESC should have (scancode 1 + 256 + 512 = 769)
but

    set key \852 hello

works for SHIFT+F1 (outputs hello) but

    set key \769 hello

doesn't work for SHIFT+ESC!

When redefining the ESC key itself by

    set key \27 hello

also SHIFT+ESC outputs hello! (B.T.W. "set key \257 hello" doesn't work
either, so we can not make a distinction between ESC and Ctrl-[ too, but
that's not a problem for us at this moment).

Any suggestions to solve this problem are welcome (We also tried the product
KEATerm under Windows and that one will do it correctly; we need something
running under DOS however!)

Kind Regards,


Henk.

--
  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]
 /---/ __  __  /  Tel: [phone] | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation
/   / (-_ / / /(  Loc: FP-B09        | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 10:19:40 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:19:40 GMT
Lines: 71


Bill Davidson ([e-mail]) writes:
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.
>
>My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep
>you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit
>motive.

As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to
throw caution to the winds and add my comments.

I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that
Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware
authors don't.

People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide
technical support for free.  I know that I have asked for support from
both fdc and jrd, and never been denied.  Because they have a reputation
and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to
continue for everyone.

On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not
expect such free support from a shareware author.  (Though most comm
programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me
use Telix as an example.  If I knew the net address of the telix author, I
would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the
shareware registration.

Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the
expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-)  Most
software vendors are struggling with the problem of support.  Many
commercial ventures have moved away from free support.

I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
likely to kill the Kermit effort.  All resources would have to go to
support and no further development.  I'm sure that the Kermit group would
like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a
university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives.  I don't believe that
they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions
made on this list.

Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and
MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT.  Both sides of this discussion have their
positions, and I can see them both and respect them both.  I'm not trying
to cast dispersions on anyone.  I don't intend to criticize anyone.  If
I've offended, I hereby apologise.

Now, I'd like to see this discussion end.  If you have suggestions as to
how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to
review them in a private communcation.  If you have a suggestion to Timo
and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on
their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even
entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION.  We've heard both
sides of the story.  Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop
it.

Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions,
send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list.

Regards,

Steve Layten
--
Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer
Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210    [phone]
INET: [e-mail]                            UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten
# # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # #

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:28:34 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: looking for suggested parameters
Date: 4 Oct 1994 12:28:34 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 29
Message-Id: <36rhpi$[e-mail]>
References: <36qi9e$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <36qi9e$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard L.
Hamilton) writes:
> Can anyone suggest "ideal" parameters for use at 9600 to 14400
> (V.32 or V.32bis) with compression and error checking?
> Right now, my .mykermrc file looks something like:
>    set block-check 3
>    set buffers 131072 131072
>    set receive packet-length 4096
>    set window-size 31 ...
> That's between a fast Un*x system and my relatively wimpy 3b1,
> serial port on the 3b1 set at 19200 (fastest it goes), and
> the modem actually maxing out at 1st V.32bis fallback speed of
> 12000 baud.
>
You might be able to use control-character unprefixing to squeeze out
a little additional speed, but the 3B1 itself is going to be the limiting
factor.  In fact, here is a case where huge buffers might actually slow
you down.  I have had reports that there is a certain size (of Kermit's
"core image") beyond which the 3b1 will swap itself into oblivion.  So
you might actually want to try less window slots, shorter packets.

Also, as an antiquated system running an old version of System V, hardware
flow control is not available, so buffer overruns are likely.  If your
modem allows it, you might want to set up Xon/Xoff flow control between
Kermit and your modem.

- Frank
x
x

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:28:49 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Rick Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 12:28:49 GMT
Organization: Wake Forest University
Lines: 43
Message-Id: <36rhq1$[e-mail]>
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Budi Rahardjo ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In <36ps3p$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews) writes:

: : Simple:  Kermit is free; shareware is not.

: : I am free to scatter Kermit all over my department, making it the
: : standard terminal emulation package for faculty, students, custodians,
: : etc., without paying a penny.

: Do they buy the manual ? What's going to happen with they have problems
: and call Coulmbia ? Either through CD-ROM or through you, these people
: do not get the manuals and hence create more problems for the Kermit's
: group when they call the Kermit's group.

We have four copies of the manual.  I keep one at home, one in my
office, and two in our department computer lab, available to everyone
to whom I distribute Kermit.

Since I have appended a custom startup file appropriate for our
facilty, and I supply a two-page description of how to get started,
there are very few problems or questions.  Another nice touch is that
I have reconfigured the keymap so that PageUp, PageDown, Insert,
Delete, and the function keys all behave more or less the same way in
emacs as they do in WordPerfect for DOS.  That gives us a near-zero
learning curve for editing.

When people do have problems, they

1.   RTFM.
2.   Ask me.  If I don't know the answer, I
    a.  RTFM.
    b.  E-mail Columbia.

Less than one problem per two years in our department makes it to
2(b).  That's less than 0.125 support requests per manual per year.
What do you think the ratio of support requests to manuals purchased
is for people who get Kermit off a CD-ROM?

--
Rick Matthews                     [e-mail]            Ham radio:
Wake Forest University            910-759-5340   (Voice)      WA4GSP
Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507      910-759-6142   (FAX)


From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:12:39 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:12:39 GMT
Lines: 71


Bill Davidson ([e-mail]) writes:
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.
>
>My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep
>you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit
>motive.

As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to
throw caution to the winds and add my comments.

I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that
Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware
authors don't.

People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide
technical support for free.  I know that I have asked for support from
both fdc and jrd, and never been denied.  Because they have a reputation
and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to
continue for everyone.

On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not
expect such free support from a shareware author.  (Though most comm
programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me
use Telix as an example.  If I knew the net address of the telix author, I
would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the
shareware registration.

Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the
expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-)  Most
software vendors are struggling with the problem of support.  Many
commercial ventures have moved away from free support.

I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
likely to kill the Kermit effort.  All resources would have to go to
support and no further development.  I'm sure that the Kermit group would
like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a
university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives.  I don't believe that
they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions
made on this list.

Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and
MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT.  Both sides of this discussion have their
positions, and I can see them both and respect them both.  I'm not trying
to cast dispersions on anyone.  I don't intend to criticize anyone.  If
I've offended, I hereby apologise.

Now, I'd like to see this discussion end.  If you have suggestions as to
how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to
review them in a private communcation.  If you have a suggestion to Timo
and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on
their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even
entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION.  We've heard both
sides of the story.  Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop
it.

Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions,
send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list.

Regards,

Steve Layten
--
Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer
Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210    [phone]
INET: [e-mail]                            UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten
# # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # #

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:45:27 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Adrian Godwin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 4 Oct 1994 13:45:27 +0100
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, UK
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <36rip8$[e-mail]>
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: acorn.acorn.co.uk
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>,
Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:

>  What you can do is to notify BBS operators of this Kermit-Lite edition,
>once it has been released, and urge them to upgrade. We do recommend reading
>the fine manual so that their systems can exploit the heck out of scripts
>and set long packets and sliding windows etc.

Excellent, but I'm afraid that you're going to have to help them get the
settings correct by including defaults (or a default .ini file) that
optimises transfers for typical PC-BBS systems. If you hope that they'll
buy the manual (or even read the instructions in detail) I'm afraid
that you're likely to be disappointed in many cases.

-adrian




From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:48:37 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:48:37 GMT
Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 15
Apparently-To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Steven W. Layten) writes:
>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
>likely to kill the Kermit effort.

It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM.  If
it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes.  The
proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation.  They sell
9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs?

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:16:49 1994
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:16:49 GMT
Lines: 66


Bill Davidson ([e-mail]) writes:
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.
>
>My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep
>you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit
>motive.

As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to
throw caution to the winds and add my comments.

I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that
Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware
authors don't.

People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide
technical support for free.  I know that I have asked for support from
both fdc and jrd, and never been denied.  Because they have a reputation
and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to
continue for everyone.

On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not
expect such free support from a shareware author.  (Though most comm
programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me
use Telix as an example.  If I knew the net address of the telix author, I
would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the
shareware registration.

Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the
expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-)  Most
software vendors are struggling with the problem of support.  Many
commercial ventures have moved away from free support.

I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
likely to kill the Kermit effort.  All resources would have to go to
support and no further development.  I'm sure that the Kermit group would
like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a
university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives.  I don't believe that
they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions
made on this list.

Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and
MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT.  Both sides of this discussion have their
positions, and I can see them both and respect them both.  I'm not trying
to cast dispersions on anyone.  I don't intend to criticize anyone.  If
I've offended, I hereby apologise.

Now, I'd like to see this discussion end.  If you have suggestions as to
how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to
review them in a private communcation.  If you have a suggestion to Timo
and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on
their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even
entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION.  We've heard both
sides of the story.  Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop
it.

Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions,
send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list.

Regards,

Steve Layten

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:45:05 1994
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From: [e-mail] ()
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<[e-mail]> was cancelled from within rn.

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:19:21 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:19:21 GMT
Lines: 71


Bill Davidson ([e-mail]) writes:
>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>people have the software completely eludes me.
>
>My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep
>you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit
>motive.

As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to
throw caution to the winds and add my comments.

I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that
Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware
authors don't.

People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide
technical support for free.  I know that I have asked for support from
both fdc and jrd, and never been denied.  Because they have a reputation
and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to
continue for everyone.

On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not
expect such free support from a shareware author.  (Though most comm
programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me
use Telix as an example.  If I knew the net address of the telix author, I
would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the
shareware registration.

Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the
expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-)  Most
software vendors are struggling with the problem of support.  Many
commercial ventures have moved away from free support.

I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
likely to kill the Kermit effort.  All resources would have to go to
support and no further development.  I'm sure that the Kermit group would
like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a
university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives.  I don't believe that
they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions
made on this list.

Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and
MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT.  Both sides of this discussion have their
positions, and I can see them both and respect them both.  I'm not trying
to cast dispersions on anyone.  I don't intend to criticize anyone.  If
I've offended, I hereby apologise.

Now, I'd like to see this discussion end.  If you have suggestions as to
how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to
review them in a private communcation.  If you have a suggestion to Timo
and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on
their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even
entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION.  We've heard both
sides of the story.  Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop
it.

Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions,
send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list.

Regards,

Steve Layten
--
Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer
Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210    [phone]
INET: [e-mail]                            UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten
# # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # #

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 11:09:10 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 94 11:09:10 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 57
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <36h490$[e-mail]> <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <36ps3p$[e-mail]>
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In <36ps3p$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Matthews) writes:
>Simple:  Kermit is free; shareware is not.

Kermit is not free, if I use it in a customer project I have to negotiate
with Columbia, if I want to put it on CDROM, I have to negotiate with
Columbia e.t.c. Thus, as soon as I start using it as a part of a bundle of
software, (which I might sell for a profit athough I don't charge anything
for the kermit part in it but do charge for my own contribution to it), I
have to negotiate with Columbia. This is different from truely free
software which is not restricted by anything (only by copyright to ensure
that the software stays free).

It's not strange or anything that you to do this but IMHO you can not
maintain the claim that Kermit is free; Kermit is free for a limited
number of purposes and the limitation is described in kermits copyright
notice.

As far as I can see Kermit is Shareware. Compare it with F-Prot. F-Prot is
Shareware but free for private use. Kermit is free for distribution on
FTP-sites and free to use for yourself but not free for use in a project
for a customer or for putting it with other programs on CD-ROM.

So both share the same principal, it is shareware but free to use as long as
you don't cross a set border-line. For F-Prot this border-line is Non-private
use, for Kermit it is distribution on CD-ROM or use in a customer project.

What might be confusing is that Shareware not means that you have to pay
always but that you have to pay if you meet certain conditions. For
Shareware most of the time a condition is set that you have to pay after
using the product for xxxx days or so, but like F-Prot shows the condition
can also be if you fall into a certain category and that it is still free
if that doesn't apply.

Kermit is not freeware, it is shareware and it has always been shareware, if
you use it after meeting a preset condition you have to negotiate with
Columbia. The amount of money Columbia will charge you is unknown, you are
completly in the dark because there is not a single document supplied
with kermit that will say anything about what you can expect.

Ok, I'm not going to reply on this subject anymore since everything to be
said is covered by now. Even if everyboby will tell me Kermit is free
I still beleive it is shareware; it is a matter of definition of the word
'Shareware' to deterimine if it applies to Kermit. That I don't have to pay
is just a matter of not meeting the payment condition set for it.

Kind regards,


Henk.

P.S. There is a copy of Kermit in Prentice-Hall's distribution of MINIX (on
floppy) is that illegal too? I guess so...

--
  /   / de Groot  Dep: ALD2          | E-Mail: [e-mail]
 /---/ __  __  /  Tel: [phone] | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation
/   / (-_ / / /(  Loc: FP-B09        | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 14:03:02 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:03:02 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 190
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In article <36r5d2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
> :Kermit is FREE.  If you use it without ordering a manual, no big deal.
> :Its FREE.  If you need technical support, you will get it FREE.  However,
> Here is the core of your the problem provided that you are looking
> for a good solution. You, that this the good Columbia people, may
> have either of the two goals:
>
> 1) Finding a solution that enhances YOUR situation both timewise and
> financially.
>
> 2) Using every possible argument to defend retaining exactly the
> current practices whether they are optimal for you or not.
>
> Please do not be offended...
>
Don't worry, Timo, I'm not.

And I hope *you* won't be offended if I sidestep this issue for a while,
even though the points you raise are worth discussing.

You see, it is not up to you, Keith, or the several other participants in
this debate to dictate how Joe, I, and the other Kermit workers spend our
time.  We work extremely long hours trying to satisfy the sometimes
pressing needs of our constituency, and that work must take precedence just
now over the solution to this problem.  Watch the new companion newsgroup,
comp.protocols.kermit.ann for results.

I understand that some people don't like our policy with respect to
CDROMs, and I suppose we will have to find a creative way to deal with
this issue down the road.  But for now, we are not set up to cope with it,
for reasons outlined -- if not microscopically detailed -- in previous
discussions.  We are satisfying hundreds of thousands, probably millions
of users with just a small handful of people.  That's because our users
either (a) order from us by mail, in which case they get the documentation
they need and therefore do not bother us with tech support calls unless
they are cases not covered in the documentation (and we like such calls,
because they tell us how to improve our products), or (b) they are large
organizations that have their own internal support structures, and
therefore do not impinge greatly upon our time, and when they do, again,
it is because of important issues that we need to address in our products
themselves.  This system has worked extraordinarily well for more than
a decade.

CDROMs, however, go to the mass market.  Let's use an analogy to
illustrate what this means.  Ten years ago (or so), computers were big,
loud, heavy things in the machine rooms of universities, companies,
hospitals, and government agencies, with tentacles reaching out to
terminals in the needed locations.  This was the now-discredited
centralized model.  The central computer had a central support
organization which trained its users, installed and maintained software,
and handled problems, and every user saw the same thing, experienced the
same behavior.  When there was a problem, it was fixed in one place.
Although the central computer was quite expensive, the support and
training issues were handled very efficiently.

The computer and software industries realized that there was only so much
money to be made this way, and therefore shifted their focus to the mass
market -- a computer in every home, store, office, etc.  Margins are
slimmer, prices are lower, power is higher, software is more "user
friendly", etc etc.  This same movement resulted in the abandonment of the
central computing model in organizations.  "Mainframes" were "dinosaurs"
that sucked up enormous amounts of capital and operating money; PCs were
cheap, throw-away commodoties that could go on every desk; each one,
according to popular wisdom, having the same power as the mainframe, and
much more user-friendly in the bargain.  Before we knew it, every
organization in the world was on a "downsizing" (hastily rechristened
"rightsizing") campaign.

This is all to the good.  Technology is the driving force of society, and
technlogy is always improving, and therefore society benefits more and
more with every innovation.  Costs go down, productivity goes up.

But something went wrong.  It didn't happen that way.  Costs went up,
productivity went down.  Why?  Because now we have literally millions of
computer-naive people needed massive amounts of help -- technical support;
training; one-on-one hand-holding.  An issue related not only to the
"naivete"
of the end users and the rapid pace of change in technology and software,
and the resulting unreliability compared to the tried-and-true mainframe
environment, where bugs had been worked out over the course of decades.

A recent study by the Gartner group (I don't have the reference handy, but
I read this in one of the prominent trade publications) found that,
contrary to expectations, the cost to a "rightsized" IS-intensive company
of maintaining its previous level of productivity was SIX TIMES what it
was in the centralized model.

I know from my own experience, quite apart from anything to do with
Kermit, in my own very large organization, that this figure is not far off
the mark.  These people, finding computers on their desks instead of 3270
terminals (or a typewriter), need massive amounts of help, even with today's
prepackaged, slick, graphical client/server object-oriented technologies.
There is no "magic pill" for these people -- every problem is hideously
complex, and every solution is unique.  "I can't print my file!"  Not only
could there be 500 reasons for this, you can't even hope to talk the user
through exploring any of them because they don't even know what the words
mean.  They clicked on a printer icon and nothing came out.  You have to
over in person, read their AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, remove TSRs (that
some other helpful person installed for them), check for interrupt
conflicts and noisy buses, remove boards, fool with jumpers, figure out
their memory management configuration and address conflicts -- no two PCs
are configured the same way, and if the PC is on a LAN, then you have
networking issues at every level to worry about.  I could go on.  Most of
you have been there.

In this example, I have been talking about simple, supposedly
self-contained "office automation" or "personal productivity"
applications.  Now what happens when we are speaking of an application
that connects two computers via modems?  I am sure that all readers of
this newsgroup know that there is no "plug and play" solution to this
problem.  Today's modems are very complex instruments, with manuals nearly
an inch thick.  And every make and model is different.  The PC hardware is
different too and, I must say, increasingly difficult to deal with.  For
example: as CPU power and speed increase, serial port quality has not kept
pace, and in many cases has detiorated.  Our mass market consumer who buys
a 66 MHz Multimedia Turbo Screamer with at Sears or Computerland will have
a difficult time understanding why its much-vaunted communications
capabilities don't measure up to expectations, and soon enters the jungle
of non-buffered and/or defective UARTs, interrupt conflicts, and all the
rest.  Each of these cases takes considerable time and effort to resolve.
Again, there is no magic pill -- every case is different.

Within organizations, however, the pendulum is beginning to swing back in
the old, discredited direction.  Standardization, central support,
centralized resources such as modem pools, become key to saving costs and
boosting productivity.

Organizations: corporations, universities, hospitals, government agencies,
and so on -- this is where Kermit software can be used most effectively at
the present time, because of their centralized support of key resources
and their internal support structures.  They relieve us of the burden of
technical support.  Although most of them contribute little or nothing to
our financial health, most of them also do not impact adversely upon it.

In the mass market, very few people are going to be able to cope with
problems without some help.  Help comes in the form of what I consider to
be some excellent, thorough, "user-friendly" books, which take them
step-by-step through every phase of the communication process -- pictures,
examples, and all, and even go to some lengths to explain to them what is
really going on behind the scenes -- not just "press the F7 key".

Or else help must come in the form of individualized hand-holding -- in
the mass market there are no organizational hands-on training facilities
where we can achieve economies of scale.

Communications software is far more complex and difficult to support than
self-contained applications such as word processors, spreadsheets, etc,
because the number of combinations of variables is literally INFINITE.

Now, you might ask, isn't the same true for, say, Telix?  I don't know if
Telix is distributed on CDROM, but let's suppose it is.  The answer is:
not quite.  Telix and most other shareware PC communication software is
designed to communicate in a very special restricted environment: PC to
BBS.  Here the problem set is reduced to a manageable level: it only runs
on PCs, it only talks to other PCs on only one kind of communications
channel -- serial, full duplex, 8-bit clean, totally transparent to all
bit patterns, etc.  Directory structure and file names are the same, file
formats are the same, character sets are the same.  Our support people
have to cover territory that is INFINITELY wider than that.

Now, here is the final nail in the coffin.  In response to those who say:
"you're shooting yourself in the foot...  you want to keep Kermit all to
yourself...  you don't want it to be popular... putting it on CDROM would
increase its popularity and therefore be good for you...": I would agree
if I thought that CDROM buyers would purchase the documentation.  But they
won't.  If they happen to stumble across, say, MS-DOS Kermit among the
11,000 other software programs that lay before them, they will either
dismiss it immediately because it does not have a GUI, or they will try it
and give up immediately, in disgust, because they can't figure out how to
use it.

Lest this sound as if I am denigrating MS-DOS Kermit, I most emphatically
am not.  Lone individual mass-market consumers are not backed up by an
organization that includes computer professionals capable of recognizing
the technical merits and tradeoffs in choosing one package over another.
Mass market consumers generally follow the trade press, which I'm sure you
will all agree, focuses only on the most superficial aspects of any issue.

I am quite willing to concede that as matters stand, Kermit software is
simply not suited for the mass market.  It is better suited for the
organizational world where it can be set up, customized, and supported
on a centralized basis.

I hope that we will be able to change this situation in the future.  It is
a matter of accumulating sufficient funds so we can invest in additional
development power.  And that is what we are trying to do.

I thank everyone for their support and encouragement.

- Frank

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:36:31 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <36pipa$[e-mail]> <36r5d2$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:36:31 GMT
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Timo,

    Why must Frank be coerced into changing the practices of Kermit
distribution?  Frank is repeating the same position simply because that
*is* his position.  He is unnecessarily under fire.

    He seems to be starting to see things going in a downward spiral
because he is being pressured into changing his policies.  Please stop
pressuring him, especially in public.  It is a private matter between you
and Frank.  If you can't come to agreement, then let it go, Timo.  Frank
has good reason for not wanting people to sell Kermit, and he should be
allowed that.

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 12:38:35 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36r5rk$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:38:35 GMT
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In article <36r5rk$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Timo Salmi) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Udut) writes:
>:Remember - this too, shall pass (the dilemna on this newsgroup)
>
>Sigh!  Which do the gentle reades consider the bigger problem in
>here? The existince of this discussion or Columbia's funding and
>time allocation dilemma?

The bigger problem is that it's Columbia's business to concern themselves
with it and Frank's business to concern himself with it.  It's *not* our
concern.

The existance of the discussion is painful to Frank as he is getting
blasted left and right for sticking to what he feels is best.  He DOESN'T
want to turn Kermit into a commercial venture.

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 14:06:48 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:06:48 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Keith Petersen) writes:
> [e-mail] (Steven W. Layten) writes:
> >I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
> >and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
> >likely to kill the Kermit effort.
>
> It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM.  If
> it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes.  The
> proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation.  They sell
> 9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs?
>
That's a very good suggestion, Keith.  We are, in fact, exploring this
option.  It is one of many options for us to explore.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 14:08:11 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:08:11 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 15
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In article <36rip8$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Adrian Godwin)
writes:
> Excellent, but I'm afraid that you're going to have to help them get the
> settings correct by including defaults (or a default .ini file) that
> optimises transfers for typical PC-BBS systems.
>
Let's postpone the discussion of Kermit on BBSs until after version 3.14
is announced.  Then we'll have something new to talk about.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 14:56:53 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Larry Stone)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Message-Id: <1994Oct4.095654.6265@eisner>
Date: 4 Oct 94 09:56:53 -0500
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:
> [e-mail] (Jamie Watson) writes:
>>Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here.
>
> Ok, here it is.  I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it.
>
> Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, with voluntary payment for
> individuals and required payment for commercial and school use (i.e.,
> a site license).  If Columbia charged $300 for a site license, even if
> there were only 1,000 customers, the income produced would be $300,000
> per year.

Well that may be a good funding model but as a paying model for many companies,
it won't work. Getting my company to buy a manual is simple. Paying for
software, whether it's "traditional" or shareware, is very difficult. Let's put
it this way - I'll be retired (and that's in 25 years) before I could get $300
for shareware. My company (and also a previous employer) don't like to blindly
sign software license agreements because it places obligations on the company.
OTOH, buying a book entails no obligations (other than to pay) so it's no
problem.

> Keith Petersen
> General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
> Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
> Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND
--
Larry Stone                             |
VAX Systems Administator                |
[e-mail]                |

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 11:14:10 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Milam)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:47:58
Organization: Control Systems Dept  @ Ford Scientific Research Lab
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Normally I am fairly mild mannered, and slow to anger but this really
got to me....

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Sergio
Fanchiotti) writes:

>[e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:

>>It appears to me that you have single-handedly killed the entire free
>>distribution system for Kermit, except for Internet anonymous FTP.  That
>>will probably result in the death of the Kermit protocol on systems
>>which do not have access to the Internet.
What planet you been living on Keith? Do Sinclairs have Internet access? Do
Apple II machines have Internet access? Over half the machines supported by
Kermit do not normally attach to networks. Kermit is popular because it is
a darn good product, not because SimTel or anyone else distributes it.
People do not use software because it is easy to get, they use it because it
preforms a task they need done, and it does that task well. Kermit and it's
distribution predates most of what is now known as internet. For many years
Kermit was the software that allowed all those poor non-Internet folks to
communicate between systems. On dos platforms, I find Kermit to be the most
robust package of it's type. There is no commercial package which works as
well, and certainly no commercial package which is supported as well. I
support Frank and Columbia for allowing us to use Kermit for all these years
FREE of charge. I also have found that only Columbia had the latest versions
of Kermit on-line and available, most other sites are a month or more behind.
Same for most CD-ROM distributions. The program I am interested in is usually
always out of date. If I am not mistaken you used to use Kermit to download
from the old Simtel machine...

>        Well, as someone looking at this silly discussion for some time
>        it seems that the time has come to get to work on a GPL'd version
>        of a portable data transfer program like Kermit (As Les said before).
>        Kermit is decent software and ubquitous but not the last word in this
>        area. And if something of the complexity of gcc is still beeing

Without a core group of people, which Mr. Stallman has been keeping together,
there would be no gcc. Try it for yourself, it is much harder than it looks.

>        supported... why not something like a kermit protocol clone? Here
>        the wheel has to be re-done, hard work it is, but it may have some
>        improvements, just look at the way Linux is developed!

If Linux is still here in 2004, you may have a point.

>        and their choice.   (Apparently if doesn't matter that 90% of the
>        people don't have FTP access...)

See above. Kermit predates almost all of the archive sites, and has been doing
just fine without the CD-ROM distribution.

>    In this respect we should thank the attitude of the Kermit team. In the
>     long run something else will appear to fill this gap, hopefully better
>        and easier to distribute.  Guess here is something else for RMS, once
>        the TCL flame war is over... Maybe in a feww days we'll see

As to this comment...Fine, go ahead and prove you can replace the quality and
support for a Kermit replacement and keep it running for a decade or two...it
ain't as easy as many of you think. Kermit predates the IBM PC for cryin out
loud...this is a tremendous accomplishment. To support a FREE product in the
public domain for over a decade and keep it up to date with changing
technology, port it to almost every platform known to man, even Sinclairs and
the BBC machines, and find itself still setting the standard others shoot for
as to quality and support is a ..... words fail....

If i have mortally offended anyone, please feel free to flame me via e-mail
and let the people who have legitimate problems get some time in here.


From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 14:19:56 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es?
References: <36g46d$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <36rip8$[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 14:19:56 GMT
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In article <36rip8$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Adrian Godwin) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>Joe Doupnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>  What you can do is to notify BBS operators of this Kermit-Lite edition,
>>once it has been released, and urge them to upgrade. We do recommend reading
>>the fine manual so that their systems can exploit the heck out of scripts
>>and set long packets and sliding windows etc.
>
>Excellent, but I'm afraid that you're going to have to help them get the
>settings correct by including defaults (or a default .ini file) that
>optimises transfers for typical PC-BBS systems. If you hope that they'll
>buy the manual (or even read the instructions in detail) I'm afraid
>that you're likely to be disappointed in many cases.
>
>-adrian

Well, for sysops like PCBoard and TBBS sysops... they'll probably buy the
manuals, as they don't fear spending money to do things "right".  This at
least seems to hold true to the local BBS fare in my part of New Jersey.

Ken



From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 15:47:08 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Petersen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:47:08 GMT
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[e-mail] (Bill Milam) writes:
>On dos platforms, I find Kermit to be the most
>robust package of it's type. There is no commercial package which works as
>well, and certainly no commercial package which is supported as well. I
>support Frank and Columbia for allowing us to use Kermit for all these years
>FREE of charge.

Look again.  MS-Kermit is written and maintained by Joe Doupnik, not Frank.

>I also have found that only Columbia had the latest versions
>of Kermit on-line and available, most other sites are a month or more behind.

That's because Joe Doupnik was too busy to upload MS-Kermit to SimTel.
I had to wait for its announcement in the Info-Kermit Digest and then do
the ftp transfer myself.  In the early days that wasn't easy because the
MS-Kermit package was not distributed as an ARC or ZIP file.  Instead it
was a dozen or more individual files that the user had to download, hoping
not to miss any.

>If I am not mistaken you used to use Kermit to download
>from the old Simtel machine...

In the early days of SIMTEL20 I used Xmodem.  Later when Zmodem was
ported to TOPS-20 I used Zmodem.  I still use Zmodem.

You seem to think that this is some sort of effort to get Columbia to
agree to allow MS-Kermit to be put back on SimTel.  That is NOT the
case.  SimTel's policy is that programs submitted to the collection MUST
include documentation.  If MS-Kermit were submitted today it would be
rejected because it does not include documentation.

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm)
Internet: [e-mail]    or      [e-mail]
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                     BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 14:25:31 1994
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Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut
From: [e-mail] (Ken Udut)
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
References: <36pbtj$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 14:25:31 GMT
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:
>[e-mail] (Steven W. Layten) writes:
>>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more
>>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is
>>likely to kill the Kermit effort.
>
>It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM.  If
>it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes.  The
>proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation.  They sell
>9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs?

That's a good question, Keith :-)  I can understand why they might not
wish to include the documentation on-disk, as then there's the
possibility of folks copying it too much, which would hinder the project.

But if they offer, for example, a CD-ROM of their latest Kermit
offerings, updated once a year, with two manuals for... oh, $99 or so,
perhaps $129, they'd get some happy Information Services folks who like
the new CD-ROM toys.

In the case of Kermit, however, usually folks want only one version,
perhaps two or three (unix, PC and Mac, for example for a typical college
installation).  These can be distributed more cheaply via floppy disks or
tape.  CD-ROMS have the problem of only being inexpensive if:

* Many are produced at once

or

* They have their own CD-writer, which is $5000 they probably don't have
lying around.


If they produce many at once, the problem happens when Kermit upgrades
occur, and the CD-ROMS are useless.  With magnetic media, *zot*, it's
erased and a new copy is put on.

Am I on the right track, Frank?  :-)

Ken
[e-mail]

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 18:02:32 1994
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright
Date: 4 Oct 1994 13:02:32 -0500
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Hello,

[e-mail] (Keith Petersen) writes:

>[e-mail] (Bill Davidsen) writes:
>>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way
>>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual.
>>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer
>>people have the software completely eludes me.

>In my opinion Kermit became CRIPPLEWARE several years ago when Columbia
>University stopped providing the full documentation as a file which could
>be downloaded.  This forces users to purchase the book if they wish to
>take full advantage of the software.

Oh please, give us a break.
I have been using Joe Doupnik's MS-Kermit every now and then for years,
without ever reading a book about it. It comes with enough material to get
started and do what you need. It is everything else but "Crippleware" !

So, recently some of our power users switched from DOS to OS/2 and
wanted, in that process, replace their early-eighties terminal software
that they used for their database retrieval sessions with something else.
This was, in my opinion, a good job for OS/2-CKermit, and a good
opportunity to buy the book. So I now have that book, and,
once we've figured out why this thing refuses telnet connections to
some hosts while dealing perfectly with others, we will run C_Kermit
as well.

On the other hand, I have to admit that my boss wans't overly enthusiastic
to use "something you've pulled off the Net". So when he started playing
around with OS/2 I gave him the Walnut Creek Hobbes CD (on which kermit,
probaly for the last time, was) and suggested him to have a look
into the whole thing. The next day I had my purchase order for the book... :-)

So you can count at least one sold book onto a CD publishing...

I would like to add a personal remark: My posting, which was at the
beginning of this thread, and which was a little bit furiously worded,
originally was meant as a private mail and was posted accidentally.
While I disagree with his opinion I respect Frank da Cruz' whish not to
be further involved with this thread. What we are essentially discussing
here is the way Columbia funds the Kermit Project. The essence seems to be
that they earn money by both documentation sales and distribution fees.

Some people here have argued that CD publishing would increase documentation
sales. But no one has (and probably noone can do so without hard numbers
and good market estimates) weighed the increased publication revenues (?)
against estimated loss of distrubtion fees. Those who can do this best are
the Columbia folks, since they have at least hard numbers on their current
funding status. Apparently these numbers tohether with the necessary estimates
say that they would not benefit from CDROM publishing. Without knowing
their numbers, and without provably better own numbers, there isn't much
anybody can argue about that.

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr



--
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  [e-mail]
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT     |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. [phone]                    |           D-67653 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------


From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 19:28:50 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: OS/2 C-Kermit (was Columbia University's Kermit copyrightt)
Date: 4 Oct 1994 19:28:50 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:
> So, recently some of our power users switched from DOS to OS/2 and
> wanted, in that process, replace their early-eighties terminal software
> that they used for their database retrieval sessions with something else.
> This was, in my opinion, a good job for OS/2-CKermit, and a good
> opportunity to buy the book. So I now have that book, and,
> once we've figured out why this thing refuses telnet connections to
> some hosts while dealing perfectly with others, we will run C_Kermit
> as well.
>
Fixed in 5A(190).  It was a bug :-)

You will like 5A(190) much better than 189.

Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin,
binary mode, file cko190.zip.

- Frank
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

From [e-mail] Tue Oct  4 18:31:52 1994
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From: [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Kermit for DOS/V (Kanji Terminal Emulation)
Date: 4 Oct 1994 18:31:52 GMT
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Frank da Cruz ([e-mail]) wrote:
: On 20 Sep 1994, [e-mail] (Earl H. Kinmonth) wrote:

[Question from jp1ek about DOS/V kermit pointing out bug in handling
of Old-Jis as used by Nikkei Telecom.]

: I don't know about the 3.13 beta you have -- Kanji terminal emulation for
: DOS/V might or might not be in it.  It will be in version 3.14 when it is
: announced (hopefully very soon).  I sent your question to the person who
: wrote the Kanji terminal support for MS-DOS Kermit and received this
: response:
: response:

: "Sorry for the delay.

: "I don't know about the Nikkei Data Base, and unfortunately, I have
: no friends who are using that DataBase.

: "However, I got another report from someone who is using the Nikkei
: Telecom DataBase, and he pointed out that Nikkei Telecom uses an
: improper ESC sequence to designate the JIS X 201 character set.  This
: is a well-known wrong sequence which was implemented in very very old
: software, and the sequence is 'ESC ( H' which should be used to
: designate the Swedish character set."

: So it looks like the right thing to do would be to get Nikkei Telecom
: to fix their character-set designating escape sequence.  If this is not
: the correct answer, let me know.

The response above is correct but unlikely to get much of a hearing
from Nikkei.  I have had dealings with the Nikkei people in the US,
the UK, and Japan.  Among the printable adjectives that come to mind
are smug, arrogant, thick, stupid, condescending, etc.  When you've
got a monopoly or near monopoly, your standards, however FUBAR they
may be you are "correct."

Just to give perspective on Nikkei, they consider themselves state of
the art because in the last couple of years, they've finally started
providing 2400 baud dialup service in Japan and packet switching ports
(at 2400 baud half duplex).  When I pointed out that most pimply
teenagers running a BBS out of some attic in the US or the UK were
providing 9600 baud or better, the irony was lost.

The interface on the Nikkei database has to be experienced to be
believed.  A former database expert at the British Library described
it as "user vicious" as contrasted with "user friendly."  When I was
programming mainframes in the early 1970s, the UNIVAC software for
interactive access was already more sophisticated than what Nikkei
offers in the 1990s.  The software that they supply for this very
pricey "service" seems to be at least 10 years old.  The highest
screen resolution it offers is EGA.

Nevertheless, dealing with the Nikkei is rather like working with the
IBM AT standard.  Yes, it's crap.  Yes, it's wrong.  But it's there
and it's a very big chunk of the market....

PS

The version of kterm supplied with SCO UNIX ODT Japanese supplement
does handle the Nikkei improper escape sequence properly....

--
Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield,
Sheffield, England S10 2TN [e-mail]