The World of Computer Software/World_Of_Computer_Software-02-387-Vol-3of3.iso/s/sf018027.zip/SF018027.TXT

Text File | 1993-01-16 | 18KB | 384 lines

SF-LOVERS Digest           Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993        Volume 18 : Issue 27

Today's Topics:

                   Television - Deep Space Nine (9 msgs)

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Date: 8 Jan 93 16:54:00 GMT
From: [e-mail] ("scolvin")
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine

I was on break, so I got these letters on Star Trek NG AND DS9 after they
were a couple of days old, but I feel like throwing my hat into the ring.
First of all, the comments about the things being unbelieveable: this is
science fiction and I think you are all losing the fact that WE DON"T KNOW
EVERYTHING!!!!  Just because we can not live or exist without something or
even with something does not mean that other races cannot.  Isn't that the
whole notion of science fiction?  And the comments about the stupid
fake-gun trick and some of the other things.  If they had just sat there,
the DS9 would have been destroyed so they had to do something to bid time.
Yes, I admit that some of it was hokey.  The time thing got OLD after
about the first 20 seconds, but I think the problem was that they had a 90
minutes show and they made it a 2 hour show.  And another thing, this is
only the first show and if you look at the premiere of TNG it was totally
different from the plots they usually had and also THEY WERE UNPOLISHED!
Imagine that!  What I am saying, is give it time and open your minds a
little bit because the impossible is sometimes possible.

Mark Helvie
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Jan 93 16:40:23 GMT
From: [e-mail] (JOHN LAROCQUE)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: ST:DSN - the ULTIMATE COSMIC RIP-OFF!

Everybody has probably seen the pilot by now, but I am going to treat the
ST:DSN premiere as a SPOILER anyways:

This show is the greatest rip-off of SF movies and tv shows ever. Every
other scene reminded me of other SF shows. So here goes.

1. This show rips off from ST:TNG. Yes, that's right. It's Star Trek. Why
   shouldn't it? I thought about at least a dozen ST:TNG episodes,
   including that Borg 2-parter reintroduced in the opener, and the space
   amoeba inside a human being episode. By the way, that concept was ripped
   off (with style and originality) from a Buck Rogers episode where
   Wilma's boyfriend is a symbiote - his head and his body were two species
   acting together. Way cool.

2. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The entire wormhole sequence was a half minute
   version of Dave's ride to Saturn. And when he landed on that planetoid
   in the wormhole and gets knocked out - that WHOLE scene harkens back to
   when Dave lands and remembers his entire life experiences. Real neat,
   except here Captain Sisko actually talks to his captors and explains to
   God why human beings exist in linear time and have a beginning and an
   end. The station sort of reminds me of Dave jogging around the circles
   in his ship. Way cool.

3. Alien Nation. The pimples on that symbiote babe remind me of that one.

4. Star Wars/Indiana Jones. Remember when the Bajoran Dalai Lama sends
   Sisko on a quest to retrieve the "tears of the prophet". That's the
   whole plot to IJ: The Temple of Doom. And that casino scene with the
   alien scene harkened back to the cantina scene on Tatooine. I almost
   expected Han Solo to pop a laser blast at Greedo here.

5. Battlestar Galactica. Sisko's shuttle side arms reminded me of the much
   larger Galactica ship. When that shuttle entered the TV screen from the
   right side, I almost expected Adama to whine about the evil Cylons and
   the music to the show to start up. Oh, the casino scene also reminded me
   of the casino on Carillon (where the evil Ovions eat human beings).
   "Blue Squadron leader to Galactica, over".

6. James Bond. Yes, that whole space station is almost identical to
   Blofeld's complex in The Spy who Loved Me. (his was undersea, but who
   cares). And I almost crack up thinking about Moonraker. "Oh James, take
   me around the world one more time).

7. Terminator II. The shape shifter here morphs just like the T2000.  Way
   cool.

8. Babylon 5. The whole plot stinks of theft here. But this is Star Trek,
   so expect them to make something original of it all. And there are
   enough unsolved issues in the premiere to provice many TV hours of
   enjoyment.

Now that Gene is dead, apparently the guys at Paramount are letting their
SF influences really show. This premiere has many of them. Say, did anybody
watch the Space Rangers premiere. I missed it, but with one person here
comparing it to "A-Team in space" I have definitely got to check it out.
Bubble gum for the mind, just like V, Battlestar Galactica and the $6
Million Man. I loved them all. Unintelligent SF adventure and proud of it.
Unlike Star Trek which is watered down SF adventure, sometimes intelligent
plots and lots of soap opera. I like Star Trek too, but am smart enough to
admit the series has many flaws (I am getting real tired of the TNG crew
and that whole sterile flawless space ship). DSN should give Trek some new
life for a few seasons, and allow TNG to die and come back as a movie
series after this season. And Captain Sisko is the greatest character - a
guy with an attitude.

John LaRocque
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Jan 93 18:25:44 GMT
From: [e-mail] (ggreg)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: DS9 was VERY BAD (AMEN)

Yes, that's everything connected with Star Trek's major problem: no sf
elements (except superficial trappings and setting) in these shows.  At
least the old series had some interesting concepts and intriguing ideas
once in a while: a sense of wonder occasionally.  These new shows
completely blow.

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Date: 8 Jan 93 20:29:00 GMT
From: [e-mail] (This is F.U.N.)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ST:DSN - the ULTIMATE COSMIC RIP-OFF!

[e-mail] (John Larocque) writes:
>Everybody has probably seen the pilot by now, but I am going to treat the
>ST:DSN premiere as a SPOILER anyways:
>
>This show is the greatest rip-off of SF movies and tv shows ever. Every
>other scene reminded me of other SF shows. So here goes.

Like there has been an original idea in writing for the past how many
years?  Take a guess...

>1. This show rips off from ST:TNG. Yes, that's right. It's Star Trek. Why
>   shouldn't it? I thought about at least a dozen ST:TNG episodes,
>   including that Borg 2-parter reintroduced in the opener, and the space
>   amoeba inside a human being episode. By the way, that concept was
>   ripped off (with style and originality) from a Buck Rogers episode
>   where Wilma's boyfriend is a symbiote - his head and his body were two
>   species acting together. Way cool.

Don't blame the writers for the beginning episode, the TNG have been
recycling the same three plots for the past three seasons.  Can you name
how many episodes when Troi is the main character that she either has
trouble with her empathy or is possessed (mentally and physically invaded).
Don't forget Total Recall's mutant in a mutant.  Also, don't forget the
Star Trek :TOS episode with the deadly fried flying eggs who use Spock to
do some really back special effects work.

>4. Star Wars/Indiana Jones. Remember when the Bajoran Dalai Lama sends
>   Sisko on a quest to retrieve the "tears of the prophet". That's the
>   whole plot to IJ: The Temple of Doom. And that casino scene with the
>   alien scene harkened back to the cantina scene on Tatooine. I almost
>   expected Han Solo to pop a laser blast at Greedo here.

Your argument with the cantina scene is really out of line.  What did you
expect, a homo-sapiens only club med bar or something.  It is a FEDERATION
OF PLANETS. There should be many races there, especially now.  I mean the
cantina scene in SW reeks of old Westerns.  Don't forget the Buck Rogers
casino in space.  The point is, that casino/cantina would exist in latter
centuries.  They should have similiar qualities to them, or they would be
not casinoes/bars.  I didn't care for the religious quest.

>5. Battlestar Galactica. Sisko's shuttle side arms reminded me of the much
>   larger Galactica ship. When that shuttle entered the TV screen from the
>   right side, I almost expected Adama to whine about the evil Cylons and
>   the music to the show to start up. Oh, the casino scene also reminded
>   me of the casino on Carillon (where the evil Ovions eat human beings).
>   "Blue Squadron leader to Galactica, over".

It is also similiar to the Buck Rogers fighter launcher too.  (they were
done by the same production team) I have to wonder though, unless you
expect the smaller ships to be harriers, how they would be launched from a
ship/space station.

>6. James Bond. Yes, that whole space station is almost identical to
>   Blofeld's complex in The Spy who Loved Me. (his was undersea, but who
>   cares). And I almost crack up thinking about Moonraker. "Oh James, take
>   me around the world one more time).

Too bad Blofeld was never in The Spy Who Loved Me.  It was some ocean freak
(can't remember his name, but he was forgettable).  Maybe Lucas could sue
the military.  The space shuttle kind of remind me of some of his ships.
It seems you are being way too picky on stuff.

>7. Terminator II. The shape shifter here morphs just like the T2000.  Way
>   cool.

Personally, I think he will turn into Benson for a cameo, eventually.

>8. Babylon 5. The whole plot stinks of theft here. But this is Star Trek,
>   so expect them to make something original of it all. And there are
>   enough unsolved issues in the premiere to provice many TV hours of
>   enjoyment.

I heard about this, and the evidence seems to fit that description.
However, it seems that there are more differences between the show than
there are similiarities.  Sure they both are in a space station, and they
have multiple races there.  Those factors should be wiped from your mind.

>Now that Gene is dead, apparently the guys at Paramount are letting their
>SF influences really show. This premiere has many of them. Say, did
>anybody watch the Space Rangers premiere. I missed it, but with one person
>here comparing it to "A-Team in space" I have definitely got to check it
>out.

Great, That means one of the space rangers has a fear of flying in space.
What I would like to see is that Paramount and Rick Berman loosen their
grip on all Star Trek books, comics, and so forth.  That limits different
stories.  My main example is the 1st DC Star Trek comic book series. When
they cancelled it, some of the best writing was taking place, and was
cancelled because the made-for-series supporting characters were being
given some limelight, and were becoming very interesting. Paramount wanted
only the regular seven to be viewed, and the other characters were done
away with.

>Bubble gum for the mind, just like V, Battlestar Galactica and the $6
>Million Man. I loved them all. Unintelligent SF adventure and proud of it.

Don't forget Doctor Who and Blake's Seven.(I hope we don't get a discussion
on B7. That would really tick me off)

Jef Kolodziej
State University of New York at Buffalo
611 LaSalle Ave.
Buffalo, NY 14215
[phone]
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Jan 93 20:42:48 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Carrie Roller)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: DS9:I liked it, dammit.

Yes, I enjoyed DS9.

I thought the show did an excellent job of developing several very complex
characters, though many of you appear to feel that they are all rip-offs of
someone-or-another.

I noticed that most of the postings regarding DS9 were fairly whiny and
very often were written by people who are STILL crying about how ST:TNG
isn't as good as the original.  Get a grip, guys.  No one is forcing you to
watch.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jan 93 21:16:39 GMT
From: [e-mail] (David De Trolio)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DS9:I liked it, dammit.

[e-mail] (Carrie Roller) writes:

>Yes, I enjoyed DS9.

So did I, it reminded me of the first time I sat and saw "Encounter at
Farpoint".

>I thought the show did an excellent job of developing several very complex
>characters, though many of you appear to feel that they are all rip-offs
>of someone-or-another.

I was especially impressed in the manner the characters were introduced and
the humor in most of them.  There is also a serious side to DS9, we will
see a great deal of this in the characters from Bajor.  Sisko's character
has great potential, as does the young (and pretty) actress who is the host
body for the Trill called Dax.

>I noticed that most of the postings regarding DS9 were fairly whiny and
>very often were written by people who are STILL crying about how ST:TNG
>isn't as good as the original.  Get a grip, guys.  No one is forcing you
>to watch.

I was not on the net when ST:TNG hit the airways, but I do remember many
people bitching about how weak the show was and how it could never match up
to the original.

ST:TNG is a worthy successor to ST:TOS, and ST:DS9 is a welcome addition to
the Science Fiction Family.

And, as you indicated, if you are not happy with the program, change the
channel, I hear there is another attempt at SF TV on CBS.

David De Trolio
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jan 93 22:06:42 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Noah White)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DS9 was very BAD

[e-mail] (Yamanari) writes:
>7. Stupid fake-guns trick.  It's a wonder the cardassians supposedly won
>   any battles at all against the federation during the war.

  I agree with all the points you made and something else just popped into
my mind:

  Why would 3 Cardassian _war ships_ just sit around shooting phasers at
this huge unmaneuverable space station. I am come on, even I would blow the
hell out of it with some torps. Or maybe the tubes jammed on all three
ships. Cough, choke....NOT! It was totally lame.

Noah White
CAE/CAD Lab Staff & USENET Administrator
Georgia Institute of Technology
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Jan 93 22:19:45 GMT
From: [e-mail] (ggreg)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DS9:I liked it, dammit.

[e-mail] (Carrie Roller) writes:
>I thought the show did an excellent job of developing several very complex
>characters, though many of you appear to feel that they are all rip-offs
>of someone-or-another.
>
>I noticed that most of the postings regarding DS9 were fairly whiny and
>very often were written by people who are STILL crying about how ST:TNG
>isn't as good as the original.  Get a grip, guys.  No one is forcing you
>to watch.

What are you afraid of criticism or something?  Some of us just demand
quality sf, not puerile juvenile space opera.  I mean, why are there no
real sf writers on these ST shows?  Why don't they spend some of those
millions of dollars on some decent writers?  I hear that BABYLON 5 has
Harlan Ellison as script editor, and William Gibson among others as
writers.  Now, there's a concept - using SF writers to write SF tv!  Hello
Star Trek, hello!?!?  And no, I'm not comparing STNG to the old one.  Just
judging it on its own merits, which is quite unfair to it, I know...

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jan 93 01:36:26 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Catherine Collingwood)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DS9:I liked it, dammit.

[e-mail] writes:
>What are you afraid of criticism or something?  Some of us just demand
>quality sf, not puerile juvenile space opera.  I mean, why are there no
>real sf writers on these ST shows?  Why don't they spend some of those
>millions of dollars on some decent writers?  I hear that BABYLON 5 has
>Harlan Ellison as script editor, and William Gibson among others as
>writers.  Now, there's a concept, using SF writers to write SF tv!  Hello
>Star Trek, hello!?!?

If you look at the credits for ST:TNG, the story consultant is Melinda
Snodgrass (and has been since the 1st season)... She wrote one of (IMO)
the best TOS books - The Tears of the Singers.  Maybe you just want to see
big name authors and don't realize that there are lots of very good SF
writers out there who aren't "big names."  The script idea for STIV was
also partially developed from a writers' conference.

Sorry, you're inaccurate about ST not using SF writers.  They have done it
for years.

>and no, I'm not comparing STNG to the old one.  Just judging it on its own
>merits, which is quite unfair to it, I know..

Actually, I like STTNG.  The old series sometimes got trite and seemed to
over- advocate WASP morals to me.  While TNG is still noticeably white male
Anglo-Saxon at least it's making some strides in all areas but the
treatment of women.  And if it's so awful, why is it still among the top
three syndicated shows?

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End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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