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From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Thu Jan 26 03:10:39 1989 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA08614; Thu, 26 Jan 89 03:10:39 EST Message-Id: <8901260810.AA08614@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 89 2:07:08 EST From: The Moderator <telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #30 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Thu, 26 Jan 89 2:07:08 EST Volume 9 : Issue 30 Today's Topics: STARLINK - an alternative to PC Pursuit Telecom Info From Travel-Holiday Re: Pacific Bell Calling Card Blunder More pet peeves How US West Handles 976 Blocking [Moderator's Note: This is *part two* of two parts for 1-26. Recently I received word of a new competitor to Telenet's PC Purusit. Considering that Telenet is raising their rates beginning next week, you may want to research your own traffic and do a cost comparison with the new service described below. Whether or not it will save you money depends on your own application, of course. P. Townson] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu From: W8SDZ@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL (Keith Petersen) Subject: STARLINK - an alternative to PC Pursuit Date: 24 Jan 89 07:51:00 GMT The following is provided "as-is" for its informational value. It is from a file that was recently uploaded to my BBS. I cannot answer questions as I have no connection with this service. --Keith Petersen <Info-Modems-Request@WSMR-Simtel20.Army.Mil> ---cut-here--- STARLINK is an alternative to PC Pursuit. You can call 91 cities in 28 states during off-peak hours (7pm-6am and all weekend) for $1.50 per hour. All connections through the Tymnet network are 2400 bps (1200 bps works too) with no surcharge and there are no maximum hours or other limitations. There is a one time charge of $50 to signup and a $10 per month account maintenance fee. High volume users may elect to pay a $25 per month maintenance fee and $1.00 per hour charge. The service is operated by Galaxy Telecomm in Virginia Beach, VA and users may sign up for the service by modem at 804-495-INFO. You will get 30 minutes free access time after signing up. This is a service of Galaxy and not TYMNET. Galaxy buys large blocks of hours from TYMNET. To find out what your local access number is you can call TYMNET at (800) 336-0149 24 hours per day. Don't ask them questions about rates, etc., as they don't know. Call Galaxy instead. Galaxy says they will soon have their own 800 number for signups and information. The following is a listing of the major cities covered. There are others that are a local call from the ones listed. Eastern Time Zone Connecticut: Bloomfield Hartford Stamford Florida: Fort Lauderdale Jacksonville Longwood Miami Orlando Tampa Georgia: Atlanta Doraville Marietta Norcross Indiana: Indianapolis Maryland: Baltimore Massachusetts: Boston Cambridge New Jersey: Camden Englewood Cliffs Newark Pennsauken Princeton South Brunswick New York: Albany Buffalo Melville New York Pittsford Rochester White Plains North Carolina: Charlotte Ohio: Akron Cincinnati Cleveland Columbus Dayton Pennsylvania: Philadelphia Pittsburgh Rhode Island: Providence Virginia: Alexandria Arlington Fairfax Midlothian Norfolk Portsmouth Central Time Zone Alabama: Birmingham Illinois: Chicago Glen Ellyn Kansas: Wichita Michigan: Detroit Minnesota: Minneapolis St. Paul Missouri: Bridgeton Independence Kansas City St. Louis Nebraska: Omaha Oklahoma: Oklahoma City Tulsa Tennessee: Memphis Nashville Texas: Arlington Dallas Fort Worth Houston Wisconsin: Brookfield Milwaukee Mountain Time Zone Arizona: Mesa Phoenix Tucson Colorado: Aurora Boulder Denver Pacific Time Zone California: Alhambra Anaheim El Segundo Long Beach Newport Beach Oakland Pasadena Pleasanton Sacramento San Francisco San Jose Sherman Oaks Vernon Walnut Creek Washington: Bellevue Seattle STARLINK is a service of Galaxy Telecomm Division, GTC, Inc., the publishers of BBS Telecomputing News, Galaxy Magazine and other electronic publications. [Moderator's Note: The above has been making the rounds on various news groups and Fidonet Bulletin Boards. I thought it worth bringing here FYI; but how well it would work for you is something only you can tell. P. Townson] ------------------------------ From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Mon Jan 30 02:37:26 1989 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA15685; Mon, 30 Jan 89 02:37:26 EST Message-Id: <8901300737.AA15685@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 89 1:07:01 EST From: The Moderator <telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #37 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Mon, 30 Jan 89 1:07:01 EST Volume 9 : Issue 37 Today's Topics: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Equal Access? My Foot! Re: Victims of Wrong Numbers Re: Victims of Wrong Numbers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu From: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Date: 28 Jan 89 22:17:04 GMT [Moderator's Note: The information which follows, up to the next note from myself, was provided by Starlink, and Denia Bennett-Howard (Portal handle: 'pooka'). My thanks for this detailed chart. PT] A COMPARISON OF STARLINK AND PC PURSUIT The following list compares STARLINK's outdial access points with those of Telenet. These are the actual cities you can reach by accessing your local dial-in node and issuing the outdial command. As you can see, there are many more STARLINK outdials than there are Telenet outdials. In addition, with STARLINK, you are not restricted to the actual outdial city. You can precede the number to be dialed with a "1" and call any BBS in that area code. You will be billed for the long distance call from the outdial port to the host computer at the local phone company's rates. Outdial Host Numbers Sorted by Time Zone, State, Eastern Time Zone ----------- State/ Tymnet Outdial Telenet Node City Host # Area Code Access Point --------------- ------ --------- ------------ Connecticut Bloomfield 9128 203 Hartford 9128 203 D/CTHAR/12 Stamford 9129 203 D.C Washington 2262 703 D/DCWAS/3/12/24 Florida Fort Lauderdale 7123 305 m Jacksonville 5797 904 m Longwood 7096 305 m Miami 6582 305 D/FLMIA/3/12/24 Orlando 7096 305 m Tampa 5518 813 m D/FLTAM/3/12/24 Georgia Atlanta 8795 404 D/GAATL/3/12/24 Doraville 8795 404 Marietta 8795 404 Norcross 8795 404 Indiana Indianapolis 9349 317 Maryland Baltimore 4600 301 Massachusetts Boston 8796 617 D/MABOS/3/12/24 Cambridge 8796 617 New Jersey Camden 8693 609 m Englewood Cliffs 6319 201 m Newark 7618 201 D/NJNEW/3/12/24 Pennsauken 8693 609 m Princeton 8920 609 South Brunswick 8920 609 New York Albany 9192 518 m Buffalo 9194 716 m Melville 8811 516 m New York 1059 212 D/NYNYO/3/12/24 (for 718, must use 1718 + phone number) Pittsford 6019 716 Rochester 6019 716 White Plains 8571 914 North Carolina Charlotte 6793 704 Research Triangle Park, NC 919 D/NCRTP/3/12 Ohio Akron 8740 216 m Cincinnati 1785 513 Cleveland 4222 216 D/OHCLE/3/12/24 Columbus 9347 614 Dayton 9511 513 m Pennsylvania Philadelphia 9581 215 D/PAPHI/3/12/24 Pittsburgh 7408 412 Rhode Island Providence 9130 401 Virginia Alexandria 2262 703 D/DCWAS/3/12/24 Arlington 2262 703 D/DCWAS/3/12/24 Fairfax 2262 703 Midlothian 7339 804 m Norfolk 6986 804 m Portsmouth 6986 804 m Central Time Zone ----------- Alabama Birmingham 4101 205 Illinois Chicago 8257 312 D/ILCHI/3/12/24 Glen Ellyn 8944 312 m (for 815, must use 1815 + phone number) Kansas Wichita 8013 316 m Michigan Detroit 8794 313 D/MIDET/3/12/24 Minnesota Minneapolis 3494 612 D/MNMIN/3/12 St. Paul 3494 612 Missouri Bridgeton 8978 314 Independence 8615 913 Kansas City 8615 913 D/MOKCI/3/12/24 St. Louis 8978 314 D/MOSLO/3 (for 618, must use 1618 + phone number) Nebraska Omaha 2521 402 m Oklahoma Oklahoma City 9165 405 Tulsa 6605 918 Tennessee Memphis 1551 901 m Nashville 9141 615 Texas Arlington 9337 817 Dallas 2948 214 D/TXDAL/3/12/24 (for 817, must use 817 + phone number) Fort Worth 9337 817 Houston 4562 713 San Antonio 9169 512 Wisconsin Brookfield 9167 414 Milwaukee 9167 414 D/WIMIL/3/12/24 Mountain Time Zone ---------- Arizona Mesa 9532 602 Phoenix 9532 602 D/AZPHO/3/12 Tucson 4751 602 m & SpStnaJct calls must use 1 + phone number [see coverage.txt]) Colorado Aurora 2584 303 Boulder 2584 303 Denver 2584 303 D/CODEN/3/12/24 Utah Salt Lake City ---- 801 D/UTSLC/3/12/24 Pacific Time Zone ----------- California Alhambra 9204 818 m Anaheim 9184 714 Colton, CA ---- 714 D/CACOL/3/12/24 El Segundo 9203 203 m Glendale, CA ---- 818 D/CAGLE/12 Long Beach 9205 213 m Los Angeles, CA ---- 213 D/CALAN/3/12/24 Newport Beach 9184 714 Oakland 8963 415 D/CAOAK/3/12/24 Palo Alto, CA ---- 415 D/CAPAL/12 Pasadena 9204 818 m Pleasanton 9202 415 m Sacramento 9179 916 D/CASAC/3/12/24 San Diego, CA ---- 619 D/CASDI/3/12/24 San Francisco 9533 415 D/CASFA/3/12/24 San Jose 6450 408 D/CASJO/12 Santa Ana, CA ---- 714 D/CASAN/12 Sherman Oaks 9206 818 m Vernon 3173 213 Walnut Creek 9202 415 m Oregon Portland, OR ---- 503 D/ORPOR/3/12 Washington Bellevue 9170 206 Seattle 9170 206 D/WASEA/3 FOREIGN ACCESS: The following countries have direct dial-in access to STARLINK: CANADA ALBERTA:Calgary BRITISH COLUMBIA:Burnaby,Vancouver ONTARIO:Kitchner,Ottawa,Toronto,Windsor QUEBEC:Montreal,Quebec City, Ville St. Laurent (Off peak rates from these cities is billed at $4.00 per hour.) (Other Canadian cities can reach STARLINK via DataPac.) UNITED KINGDOM: (Via Mercury) London (Off peak access from London is billed at $10.00 per hour.) For more information about STARLINK, call 804-495-INFO by modem or 804-495-4693 by voice. [Moderator's Note: As you can see, there are several places reachable via Starlink/Tymnet not reachable by PCP and vice versa. PCP seems to be especially heavy in California, where Starlink has somewhat less coverage in that state. However, Starlink allows calls to Canada and the UK, something Telenet absolutely forbids. The folks at Starlink operate their own Information Service/BBS/Chat at the 804-495-INFO number. One nice thing about it is they give UPI at no extra surcharge. They also offer hookups to Reuter News Service, the Official Airline Guide and a travel/hotel/car rental reservations system. My understanding is that the $10 per month or $25 per month fee, which allows purchase of Starlink at $1.50 per hour or $1.00 per hour respectively, also gives you a certain amount of free time on their own system. Of course, you have to use Starlink to call them, and pay for the Starlink time. Another point which troubles me a little is their use of somewhat misleading or out of context statements describing the cost of their service versus the new rates at PCP. In messages which discuss 'how much you will save' by using their service at $25 plus $1 per hour versus PCP, they are saying that PCP will charge $4.50 per hour after 30 hours, which is only correct if you do not purchase *multiple accounts from Telenet at 30X30*. Quite obviously, two or three accounts from PCP at 30X30 is only $60 or $90 per month. The same 60 hours at Starlink would be either $10+(1.50x60=90)+$100 per month or $25+(1x60=60)=$85 per month, depending on how you pay for it. 90 hours per month would be $10+(1.50x90=135)=$145 per month or $25+(1x90=90)=$115 per month. For heavy users then, multiple accounts with Telenet would still be cheaper than Starlink at $60 on PCP versus $85/$100 on Starlink. The latter is only a bargain for the very casual user of less than around 20 hours per month or the user who wishes to call Canada or the UK. I will get a Starlink account as a supplement to my PCP account and use it for places not served by PCP. And of course, Tymnet/Starlink addressing is much easier; just a four digit number gets your connection versus the longer Telenet scheme. Finally, Starlink allows the placement of calls via an outdial modem to a point outside the local calling zone. Telenet does not. With some clever planning, you can use a nearby outdial to call anywhere. Starlink told me the surcharge for this would be 110% of telco. Starlink versus PCP? You will have to decide, based on your own use and applications. P. Townson] From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Tue Jan 31 04:12:11 1989 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA24385; Tue, 31 Jan 89 04:12:11 EST Message-Id: <8901310912.AA24385@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 89 3:57:50 EST From: The Moderator <telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #38 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Tue, 31 Jan 89 3:57:50 EST Volume 9 : Issue 38 Today's Topics: Re: USA-Direct Re: USA-Direct Re: PINs and Calling Cards as credit cards Re: PINs and Calling Cards as credit cards Re: Excuses instead of info More Thoughts on Starlink [Moderator's Note: system 'dockmaster' seems to be gone. With it went three users: eshoo@docmaster.arpa; fishman@dockmaster.arpa; neufeld@ dockmaster.arpa. In addition, system 'pioneer.arc.nasa.gov' has been unreachable in recent days. From there we have lost a user: jerry@ pioneer.arc.nasa.gov. Will anyone familiar with these users please notify them to contact me with a new address. Thank you. P. Townson] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 89 03:02:20 EST From: telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU (TELECOM Moderator) To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: More Thoughts on Starlink Actually, after 'putting the Digest to bed' early Monday morning with issue 37, I did some more thinking about the pricing. I did this after getting ready for bed when I had my shoes off so I could count higher than ten by using my toes. If you consider strictly the dollar amount -- no other factors -- then Starlink becomes more expensive than Telenet PCP after about 12 hours per month. I would not recommend it to anyone merely as a way to 'save money on data calls'. I'd say the only advantage to Starlink is if you find a place on the chart published yesterday which is not served by PCP which you call regularly. Or, if you want to make use of their own service including the links to the various news services, etc. Your $10 or $25 per month fee is not purely an administrative charge: they do give you time 'for free' on their own system to offset the monthly fee. I'd like to hear the experiences of some of you who subscribe to Starlink after a month or so of using it. They also claim their 'throughput' is much faster than Telenet, meaning you would probably spend less time on line each day. Who knows, maybe you could get done in 12 hours what formerly took 30 hours on PCP? Patrick ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest ********************* From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Sat Feb 4 01:37:59 1989 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA17812; Sat, 4 Feb 89 01:37:59 EST Message-Id: <8902040637.AA17812@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 89 1:05:16 EST From: The Moderator <telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #46 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Sat, 4 Feb 89 1:05:16 EST Volume 9 : Issue 46 Today's Topics: Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit [Moderator's Note: The phone numbers to call for information/signup at Starlink are (voice) 804-495-4693 and (modem 3/12/24) 804-495-INFO. In case you missed the earlier message in the Digest on Monday, 1-31-89, Starlink brokers Tymnet circuits with a program much like PC Pursuit. Their rates are $10 per month plus $1.50 per hour or $25 per month plus $1.00 per hour. It seems to be a good bargain for the very casual (less than 13 hours per month) user. P Townson] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!David_W_Tamkin@harvard.harvard.edu To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Date: Thu, 2-Feb-89 19:05:29 PST Patrick Townson commented on Nia Bennett's comparison of Starlink and PCP: B> You can precede the number to be dialed with a "1" and call any BBS in that B> area code. You will be billed for the long distance call from the outdial B> port to the host computer at the local phone company's rates. Is the 1 needed for Starlink or is Ms. Bennett thinking of how things work in area code 804, where telcos require it for non-local intra-NPA calls? B> Outdial Host Numbers Sorted by Time Zone, State, They still copy Tymnet Information's error in placing Detroit in the Central Zone. I've pointed that out to Nia. B> California B> Alhambra 9204 818 m B> Anaheim 9184 714 B> Colton, CA ---- 714 D/CACOL/3/12/24 B> El Segundo 9203 203 m B> Glendale, CA ---- 818 D/CAGLE/12 B> Long Beach 9205 213 m B> Los Angeles, CA ---- 213 D/CALAN/3/12/24 B> Newport Beach 9184 714 B> Oakland 8963 415 D/CAOAK/3/12/24 B> Palo Alto, CA ---- 415 D/CAPAL/12 B> Pasadena 9204 818 m B> Pleasanton 9202 415 m B> Sacramento 9179 916 D/CASAC/3/12/24 B> San Diego, CA ---- 619 D/CASDI/3/12/24 B> San Francisco 9533 415 D/CASFA/3/12/24 B> San Jose 6450 408 D/CASJO/12 B> Santa Ana, CA ---- 714 D/CASAN/12 B> Sherman Oaks 9206 818 m B> Vernon 3173 213 B> Walnut Creek 9202 415 m The California list seems to show a lot of gaps for Starlink, but notice that the Vernon and El Segundo outdialers cover the territory of CALAN; that Alhambra/Pasadena and Sherman Oaks cover that of CAGLE; that Anaheim and Newport Beach cover that of CACOL and CASAN; that CAPAL's territory is reachable from the Walnut Creek Tymnet outdialer. There are, to my knowledge, only four PCP cities not covered by Tymnet's outdialers: NCRTP, UTSLC, ORPOR, and CASDI. T> However, Starlink allows calls to Canada and the UK, something Telenet T> absolutely forbids. Starlink allows calls *from* Canada via Tymnet Canada's indials and *from* the UK via Mercury's indials. They also take calls from ConnNet indials to Tymnet, so they are a local call everywhere in Connecticut. Nia has told me that a Starlink account can access any domestic DAF connected to Tymnet (though you may get a separate billing from the DAF provider). I don't know whether international addresses are surcharged or locked out. T> My understanding is that the $10 per month or $25 per month fee, which T> allows purchase of Starlink at $1.50 per hour or $1.00 per hour respectively T> also gives you a certain amount of free time on their own system. Of T> course, you have to use Starlink to call them, and pay for the Starlink T> time. Galaxy BBS charges $2 per hour, but the first two hours each month are free for Starlink customers. Their explanation is that two hours is an allowance for Starlink customers to check their current billing and keep up with news and announcements. PCP gives no way to check on running usage. Another point Starlink advertises is that they can get you a new password in fifteen minutes. (It would be better yet if Starlink account holders could log into Galaxy BBS and change their own passwords, but it's still an improvement over PCP, except that PCP staffers frequently bend the rules and give you a new password, for better or worse, over the phone.) T> Finally, Starlink allows the placement of calls via an outdial modem to T> a point outside the local calling zone. Telenet does not. With some clever T> planning, you can use a nearby outdial to call anywhere. Starlink told me T> the surcharge for this would be 110% of telco. 100% or 110%? There is a discrepancy here. At any rate, *Tymnet*, not Starlink, appears to restrict these to calls within the area code, since Tymnet Information's description of the outdial service states that you must use an outidaler in the same area code as the number you want to reach. David_W_Tamkin@cup.portal.com ... sun!portal!cup.portal.com!David_W_Tamkin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 89 23:27:19 EST From: David A. Kingsland <kings@utflis> To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit I would take exception to the moderators comment about "Starlink allowing calls to Canada and the United Kingdom" Tymnet (and so Starlink) allows calls *FROM* Canada and the UK *TO* anywhere in the 48 states. We have not implemented the outdial service here in Canada because there hasn't been enough demand. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Feb 89 01:00:10 EST From: telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU (TELECOM Moderator) To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Both Mssrs. Tamkin and Kingsland pointed out something which I missed in my initial, admittedly quick evaluation of Starlink: International calls can be made *from* the UK and Canada, not *to* those countries. Tamkin asks for clarification on the surcharges for calls made from the Tymnet outdialers: Several months ago I made a call to Tymnet when I was considering signing up with them. At that time, their sales representative discussed the use of the outdialers with me, and quoted me the 110% of telco rate. He said I would pay for the phone call, and a 'surcharge' for the billing and extra record keeping which had to be done. When I was in chat last Sunday morning with the fellow at Starlink, we discussed the outdialers, and he said Starlink customers would be billed for any phone calls made from the outdialers outside the local calling area. I briefly mentioned to him my conversation of several months earlier and the 110 percent quote from Tymnet, and if I am not mistaken, he responded by saying, 'Tymnet may put some small surcharge on the phone call'. Using that as my authority, and remembering the earlier comments of the Tymnet representative, I beleive the effective charge will be 110 percent, that is, unless Starlink has some other arrangement with Tymnet on this point allowing phone calls to be handled at no extra surcharge above the cost of the call itself. A problem I see with the use of the outdialers to make extended area calls is that only on rare occassions is an intra-state call going to be less expensive than an interstate one. That is, a call from San Jose to a nearby (but considered long distance) town in California will easily cost me the same thirteen cents per minute that calling from Chicago via Reach Out would cost. And, I would be paying for the Tymnet circuit also. I think at the very least you could expect charges of 10-15 cents per minute on any intra-state call. My reaction is that this 'feature' of Tymnet's service is not particularly valuable, considering how inexpensive long haul interstate calls have become at night. The $10 minimum fee per month on Starlink is attractive for persons who use this type of thing no more than 12-13 hours per month. As I pointed out in my previous message, 60 hours on PC Pursuit is $60; the same 60 hours on Starlink is either $85 or $100, depending on the package you choose. If international calls outbound from the States were allowed -- apologies for my earlier misreading of this! -- then Starlink's 'pay per hour for what you use' plan would be valuable, since Telenet does not offer international calls to PC'ers regardless of what we are willing to pay. To access my mailbox on West Germany's [Tele-Box Mail Service], I now dial direct via AT&T. Likewise, for my occassional visits on Mercury, I dial direct to the UK. Too bad neither Telenet nor Tymnet will market this service; they certainly have the circuits available. Without the international access to UK and Canada, Starlink actually becomes less valuable to me, and as I said earlier, dialing an intra-state call from an outdialer is not where one will find any savings. I'm still waiting for my package to show up from Starlink (it has been a week), and when it arrives I will sign up, but probably confine my usage to the places not served by Telenet. Again, those phone numbers to call for more information or to signup: Voice 804-495-4693 Modem 804-495-INFO They bill to various credit cards, and they also offer a 'check-free' option. The fellow I spoke with last Sunday was most cordial, and spent about an hour in chat with me, discussing Starlink. Patrick Townson From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Sun Feb 5 00:56:50 1989 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA06153; Sun, 5 Feb 89 00:56:50 EST Message-Id: <8902050556.AA06153@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 89 0:30:48 EST From: The Moderator <telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #48 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Sun, 5 Feb 89 0:30:48 EST Volume 9 : Issue 48 Today's Topics: numbers in use but not recognized yet modems over cellular connections the "$11 yuppie plan" 1199 in connecticut curious timeout on 0+ 1+Area Code Ringback as intercom Starlink Re: More Thoughts on Starlink Large coins and cheap calls Re: USA-Direct [Moderator's Note: I call this issue 'cleaning out the mbox' because I have deliberatly gone through the mailque and selected *lots* of short items which had been waiting for processing. In doing so, I've cut the TELECOM Digest mail backlog down and given you a very wide range of subject matter in this issue. For next: A little later today you will receive a special mailing from me. It will not be under the TELECOM Digest banner for reasons which will be apparent when you recieve it. PT] Date: Fri, 3 Feb 89 21:51:16 HST From: kahuna!newton@csvax.caltech.edu (Mike Newton) To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Starlink Starlink claims one small advantage over PCP for a small population -- PCP refused to allow calls from Hawaii, while Starlink claims they do. Starlink, however, did not serve the city i was interested in, so Reach Out America is still the cheapest for me. - mike (newton@csvax.caltech.edu CSO Observatory, Hilo Hawaii 808 935 1909) ------------------------------ To: uunet!comp-dcom-telecom@uunet.UU.NET From: van-bc!sl@uunet.UU.NET (pri=-10 Stuart Lynne) Subject: Re: More Thoughts on Starlink Date: 3 Feb 89 18:01:01 GMT In article <telecom-v09i0038m06@vector.UUCP> telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU (TELECOM Moderator) writes: >I'd like to hear the experiences of some of you who subscribe to Starlink >after a month or so of using it. They also claim their 'throughput' is >much faster than Telenet, meaning you would probably spend less time on line >each day. Who knows, maybe you could get done in 12 hours what formerly took >30 hours on PCP? I havn't used either in the past few years, but Tymnet used to have a reputation for pumping data a bit more efficently than Telenet. As I remember Tyment is *not* an X.25 network internally. Does anyone out there have some uptodate info? -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!sl Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532 ------------------------------ From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Mon Feb 6 00:41:48 1989 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA25025; Mon, 6 Feb 89 00:41:48 EST Message-Id: <8902060541.AA25025@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 89 0:16:15 EST From: The Moderator <telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #49 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Mon, 6 Feb 89 0:16:15 EST Volume 9 : Issue 49 Today's Topics: Starlink/Tymnet vrs. PC Pursuit: Plot Thickens Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Re: General purpose, programmable phone switch Re: General purpose, programmable phone switch Looking for good DISA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Feb 89 23:58:35 EST From: telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU (TELECOM Moderator) To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Starlink/Tymnet vrs. PC Pursuit: Plot Thickens Well, I got the Official Agreement in the mail over the weekend. There were a few 'minor points' I had not known about, and will discuss them in this message. Nothing is quite as simple as it seems. 1. SIGN UP FEE: Starlink gets $50 to sign up. I was advised to enclose a check for that amount when I returned my check-free authorization form. This is in addition to the $10/$25 per month maintainence fee. Telenet/PC Pursuit charges $30 to sign up for *new* users. If you are an existing user, the fee to open additional accounts between now and May is waived. As pointed out earlier, the '$4.50 per hour after 30 hours' charge on Telenet is only if you don't buy adequate bundles of time to begin with. You have from now until May to decide how many such accounts, or bundles of time are appropriate for your use. 2. CALL DETAIL: Starlink will post a message for you on their bulletin board system telling you the *total amount* to be charged to your account each month. Call detail costs $5 extra per request. I do not know if the call detail then comes in printed form, or simply as another email message. Telenet/PC Pursuit will provide call detail free of charge to all users who exceed their monthly allowance, be that 30, 60, 90 hours or whatever. It will come in printed form in the mail as a credit card debit advice prior to the charge going through. Call detail will not be available until April or May, however overtime won't be billed until May. Between now and then, users can adjust their account status as they see fit. 3. PASSWORD/ID CHANGES: Starlink charges $20 for each time this is done. Telenet/PC Pursuit does not charge for password/user id changes at the present time, according to a lady I spoke with in their Customer Service group on Sunday night at 10 PM. 4. ACCESS TO ADMINISTRATIVE PERSONNEL: Starlink will give two hours of free time each month to access Galaxy BBS; to read your account status and I assume conduct other business with them. After that, the charges are $2 per hour, plus $1/$1.50 for the obligitory connection via Starlink. In my chat a week ago, I was told the DDD lines into Galaxy will be discontinued soon, and all calls will have to come via Starlink. Telenet/PC Pursuit gives free access at all times to the Net Exchange. Admittedly, Net Exchange is not in the same league as Galaxy, but you would think the folks at Galaxy might figure out a method to accept collect calls via Starlink specifically to deal with Starlink user enquiries. That, or leave their 804 numbers open for calls via PC Pursuit or DDD. 5. MINIMUM USAGE PER CALL/GRACE PERIOD: Starlink has a five minute minimum connect time with an outdialer. According to the Agreement, if you connect to an outdialer and disconnect without connecting to a host computer, five minutes will be charged. Apparently the fact of the BBS or whatever you are calling being busy is not relevant. I do not know how, or if they plan to adjust the billing for out of order telco lines and out of order modems, etc. Telenet/PC Pursuit understands that there are frequent problems in connecting from an outdialer. Per their memo in mid-January, an automatic forgiveness of one minute will be applied across the board on all outdial connections. If the modem is out of order; the telco line is down; or the remote host is busy/having snit fits or whatever *IF YOU DISCONNECT WITHIN ONE MINUTE YOU WILL NOT BE CHARGED. This is reminiscent of the way Sprint/MCI handle things, lacking the call supervision ability of AT&T. 6. ABOUT THOSE TELCO CHARGES FROM THE OUTDIALER: Starlink was originally advertised saying that 'calls outside the local area' of each outdialer would be accepted and billed to your account at telco rates. I noted that in a conversation with a Tymnet sales rep several months ago, I was quoted 110 percent of telco; the surcharge covering billing administration, etc. David Tamkin questioned this in an article a few issues ago; and it is still unresolved. But the Agreement said a little bit more on the subject: Here is just the way it reads: "In some cities, there are surcharges imposed by the local telephone company called MESSAGE UNITS. *These charges are also billed to you.* You are responsible for all long distance charges made from the outdial port to a host computer." End of quote. No kidding! Any telco NOT charging message units now? So now we find we will not only pay for long distance (or one plus, or whatever) made from the outdials at 100-110 percent of telco rates, but we will also pay for local message units on local calls if it is a community which has them. If Tymnet was not able to convince the local telco that they were really using residence service (ha ha!) then the outdialers are business lines, subject to business rates. In Chicago, business telephones pay units on a minute by minute basis even for local calls. Units cost 4-5 cents each here. If a call goes to a suburb, then it may cost 3-5 units *per minute* -- or about 12-20 cents *per minute*. I can call via Reach Out America anywhere for 13 cents a minute without having data network charges on top of that!! Telenet/PC Pursuit makes no charge for calls from the outdialers. They are careful about where they let you call, but using Chicago as the example once again, a call from downtown to Oak Park, which is dialable through a PC Pursuit outdialer, is timed, with so many units per minute. This is perhaps the most damning aspect of the Starlink plan: I have to assume the agreement means what it says: Subscribers will pay for local unit charges in communities were they are charged. And whose word do we take on that: Tymnet of course. Not that they are dishonest; not by any means. But lines have been known to not get disconnected properly, and telcos have been known to incorrectly bill these things. My thinking now is that unless you are a *very, very casual user* of data networks, you would be best to stick with Telenet. And don't think for one minute that 'being able to make extended area calls via the outdialers' is going to be any bargain. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ From: ki4pv!tanner@bikini.cis.ufl.edu To: uflorida!bu-cs.bu.edu!telecom Subject: Re: A Comparison of Starlink and PC Pursuit Date: Sat Feb 4 08:52:41 1989 The area codes shown on the comparison appear bogus. Neither Longwood nor Orlando are in 305 any more. The northern part of 305 got split off and is now 407. Dr. T. Andrews, Systems CompuData, Inc. DeLand PS: Longwood? Come on, why not just say Sanford. No one outside of the area is likely to know where Longwood is. --- ...!bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!tanner ...!bpa!cdin-1!cdis-1!ki4pv!tanner or... {allegra killer gatech!uflorida decvax!ucf-cs}!ki4pv!tanner TELECOM Digest Wed, 8 Feb 89 0:35:03 EST Volume 9 : Issue 51 Today's Topics: re: Starlink vs. PCP Wanted: ES in Communication Re: Subscriber's Line Cross-connected 0 + NXX - XXXX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dattier@jolnet.orpk.il.us (David Tamkin) Subject: re: Starlink vs. PCP To: ames!bu-cs.BU.EDU!telecom@killer.Dallas.TX.US (The Moderator) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 89 3:21:01 CST In Telecom Digest, volume 9, issue 49, our esteemed moderator wrote: T> Well, I got the Official Agreement in the mail over the weekend. There were T> a few 'minor points' I had not known about, and will discuss them in this T> message. Nothing is quite as simple as it seems. [items from the Agreement and Mr. Townson's comments thereupon] T> 3. PASSWORD/ID CHANGES: Starlink charges $20 for each time this is done. T> Telenet/PC Pursuit does not charge for password/user id changes at the T> present time, according to a lady I spoke with in their Customer Service T> group on Sunday night at 10 PM. The people at Customer Service are, as a rule, thoroughly unversed in P C Purs_it. PCP's Rate Schedules, both before and since the December 30, 1988, announcement, have included a $5 fee for replacing a password. This applies whether you have forgotten the previously issued one or just feel that you should have a change for security reasons. Moreover, a new ID must be issued as well: they have *no* provision for changing the password for an existing ID. T> 6. ABOUT THOSE TELCO CHARGES FROM THE OUTDIALER: Starlink was originally T> advertised saying that 'calls outside the local area' of each outdialer T> would be accepted and billed to your account at telco rates. I noted that T> in a conversation with a Tymnet sales rep some months ago, I was quoted T> 110 percent of telco; the surcharge covering billing administration, etc. T> But the Agreement said a little bit more on the subject: Here is just the T> way it reads: T> "In some cities, there are surcharges imposed by the local telephone T> company called MESSAGE UNITS. *These charges are also billed to you.* T> You are responsible for all long distance charges made from an outdial T> port to a host computer." T> End of quote. No kidding! Any telco NOT charging message units now? I am curious, though, about Starlink charges to DAF's. Is there any fee for DAF calls beyond the $1 or $1.50 per hour? That remains open. T> I can call via Reach Out America anywhere for 13 cents a minute without T> having data network charges on top of that!! In fact, Reach Out America charges only twelve cents per minute at night rates, and even if Starlink's throughput may turn out to be better than PCP's, it can- not be better than a direct phone call. Moreover, there are no kilocharacter charges for a data-heavy session of nothing but transfers of pre-batched material. T> My thinking now is that unless you are a *very, very casual user* of T> data networks, you would be best to stick with Telenet. And don't think for T> one minute that 'being able to make extended area calls via the outdialers' T> is going to be any bargain. There is one other case where Starlink is a clear bargain: for $US 4.00 per hour they accept calls from Tymnet Canada indials. For Canadians local to the indials (in Ville St. Laurent [near Montreal], Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto, Kitchener, Calgary, and Burnaby [near Vancouver]), this can be an incredible savings over DataPac rates to the Tymnet or Telenet gateway. For example, a Canadian calling People/Link via DataPac pays $US 24.95 per hour now. Via Starlink it is $US 4.00 for Starlink, $US 3.00 for People/Link on its local Chicago line, plus just over 1c per minute for a night-rate local call from the Tymnet outdialer in Chicago-Wabash to People/Link's direct number in Chicago-Canal West. Assuming that Starlink does not have a fee for DAF connections comparable to the cost of a local phone call when one calls from an outdialer, $US 6.00 at night ($4 to Starlink, $2 to CompuServe) for the communications surcharge to CompuServe is surely less than that for a DataPac call to CompuServe and perhaps less than that for a collect call from a Tymnet Canada indial. And Dr. T. Andrews wrote: A> The area codes shown on the comparison appear bogus. Neither A> Longwood nor Orlando are in 305 any more. The northern part of 305 A> got split off and is now 407. The list that put the Orlando/Longwood outdial in area code 305 and Detroit, Michigan, in the Central Time Zone came straight from Tymnet Information (log into any Tymnet indial as "information"). Starlink did not originate its content. David Tamkin dattier@jolnet.orpk.il.us. ...!killer!jolnet!dattier TELECOM Digest Fri, 10 Feb 89 0:01:52 EST Volume 9 : Issue 54 Today's Topics: Two horror stories in one phone call North West Territories Long distance access Re: Starlink/Tymnet vrs. PC Pursuit: Plot Thickens Re: Questions About Fax Machines/Numbers Re: New AC for SF Bay Area? Re: 1+areacode ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ki4pv!tanner@bikini.cis.ufl.edu To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Re: Starlink/Tymnet vrs. PC Pursuit: Plot Thickens Date: Wed Feb 8 21:14:42 1989 You ask if any communities DO NOT charge message units for business phone lines. At least here in the big city, you have a choice. Pay so much a month plus message units, or pay so much more a month and don't pay message units. If you didn't like the default option (or were just curious) you had to ask. The default here is to not pay message units (!). I was curious, and asked. Residence lines here do not have the option of paying message units. This fails to bother me. Dr. T. Andrews, Systems CompuData, Inc. DeLand --- ...!bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!tanner ...!bpa!cdin-1!cdis-1!ki4pv!tanner or... {allegra killer gatech!uflorida decvax!ucf-cs}!ki4pv!tanner TELECOM Digest Fri, 17 Feb 89 00:57:00 CST Volume 9 : Issue 65 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Chicago Phreak Gets Prison Term (TELECOM Moderator) Microphone Mute On Phones (Gerry Wheeler) Starlink vrs. Telenet PC Pursuit (Phillip M. Dampier) Re: "Toll-Free" 900? (Richard Edell) Re: "Toll-Free" 900? (Linc Madison) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sun!portal!cup.portal.com!Phillip_M_Dampier@mtxinu.com Subject: Starlink vrs. PC Pursuit Date: Wed, 15-Feb-89 00:49:21 PST << Starlink is an alternative to PC Pursuit. The gentlemen that offers this service at Galaxy Telecommunications I have had some experience with. Suffice to say, I am very skeptical about this service, especially considering the mess with his various "news" publications. Even Portal here has had some experience with Galaxy Telecommunications, and considering their public messages about problems they had with Galaxy, I know I am not alone. I cannot give full details, but I would strongly urge everyone out there to consider the fact that any good service run by a reputable company will be around for quite some time. Why not consider holding your money for 90 days and then re-examining the option. Often times, the service may no longer be in business and customers are left holding the bag. Please remember, CAVEAT EMPTOR - LET THE BUYER BEWARE. I did, and it saved me a lot of $$$.