Internet Info 1997 December/Internet_Info_CD-ROM_Walnut_Creek_December_1997.iso/ietf/tuba/tuba-minutes-93jul.txt

Text File | 1993-09-25 | 13KB | 374 lines

CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_

Reported by John Scudder/Merit

Minutes of the TCP/UDP over CLNP-Addressed Networks Working Group (TUBA)


Summary

   o Tasks
   o Documents to be moved to Proposed Standard or Informational
   o To-do list
   o Presentations


Tasks

   o David Piscitello and Brian Carpenter will present
     draft-ietf-tuba-sysids-01.txt to the ATM Forum.

   o Ross Callon will edit RFC 1237 (NSAP Allocation Guidelines) and
     send a note to the mailing list, before the next IETF.

   o Richard Colella and Bill Manning will edit TUBA DNS Internet-Draft
     for the next IETF.

   o 957x will be translated to ASCII text.  (Mark Knopper to work on
     doing this, Lyman Chapin, Yakov Rekhter and David Piscitello to
     provide raw dox.)

   o David Piscitello is changing 9542 to ASCII, Lyman 8473, Kunzinger
     has done 10747.  IS-IS and 957x need to be done.  All will be
     recommended as Proposed Standards and made available both in text
     and as PostScript.

   o Peter Ford and John Curran will write a transition document and
     notify the mailing list before the next IETF.

   o Dave Katz will edit EON RFC and recommend it as a Proposed
     Standard.

   o John Scudder will try out BSD/386 EON.

   o Ross was requested to write a paper on address translation and
     publish it as an Internet-Draft.

   o Mark has an outstanding item to write TUBA FAQ.



Documents to be Moved to Proposed Standard or Informational

   o CLNP for TUBA [draft-ietf-tuba-clnp-03.txt]
     Will be presented to the area director to be moved to Proposed
     Standard.

   o Sysids [draft-ietf-tuba-sysids-01.txt]
     Will be presented to the area director to be moved to Proposed
     Standard.  This is already how OSI hosts at Merit are addressed.
     It was suggested to present this to the ATM Forum---David
     Piscitello and Brian Carpenter will pursue this off-line.

   o NSAP Allocation Guidelines [RFC 1237]
     This document is currently a Proposed Standard.  Ross Callon
     suggests that it needs editing (and volunteers to do it, too).
     Ross will edit it, place it in the tuba-docs directory on
     merit.edu, and send a notice to the mailing list (maybe to the NOOP
     list too).
     RFC 1237 will be recommended to be moved to Draft Standard after
     editing is complete (before the next IETF).

   o FUBAR (FTP and UDP with Bigger Addresses)
     [draft-piscitello-ftp-bigports-01.txt, tuba-only version]
     TUBA and TP/IX implementations of FUBAR supposedly exist.
     There was quite a bit of discussion about problems with FUBAR and
     TUBA translating gateways.
     Some editing is needed on the document:  five-letter commands need
     to be changed to four-letter, and various frivolities need to be
     elided.  An appendix is to be written specifying use of FUBAR for
     TUBA.
     In the spirit of compromise between problems with FUBAR over
     translating gateways and the need for some specification for big
     address FTP, there was agreement to move for Experimental status
     now, to be reviewed at the next IETF and then moved to Proposed
     Standard.

   o DNS forward lookup (name ! NSAP lookup)
     There is a document for forward lookup only, no inverse lookup.
     RFC 1238 needs to be moved to Historical, since reverse lookup is
     ``broken.''  Inverse lookup has been implemented, but is very slow.
     There is a new Internet-Draft that does not include reverse lookup.
     Richard Colella and Bill Manning will edit the Internet-Draft for
     next time.  RFC 1238 will be left in place for now.
     A DNS guru volunteer is needed.  Richard is interested in working
     with this guru.
     This will be discussed in Wednesday's DNS meeting.

   o Routing and Addressing Architecture
     There is already such an architecture published in ISO 957x (David
     Piscitello or Dave Katz may know the real number).
     957x will be translated to ASCII text.  (Mark Knopper will work on
     doing this, Lyman Chapin, Yakov Rekhter and David Piscitello will
     provide a raw document.)
     David Piscitello is changing 9542 to ASCII, Lyman is changing 8473,
     and Kunzinger has changed 10747.  IS-IS and 957x need to be done.
     All will be recommended as Proposed Standards and made available
     both in ASCII and PostScript.
     Relevant ISO documents are available (in PostScript) for anonymous
     FTP from merit.edu.

   o EON
     Will be recommended as a Proposed Standard.



To-do List

   o DNS inverse lookup (mentioned above)

   o Transition plan

     To be discussed at the next meeting.  Some anxiety was expressed
     that the plan needs to be finished well before the next IETF.
     Peter Ford and John Curran are working on a transition plan.
     A rough transition outline is:

          Dual-stacked hosts
          CLNP in routers
          CLNP over IP infrastructure
          IP over CLNP infrastructure


     This segued into a discussion of the existing infrastructure, which
     led to discussion of EON: the EON RFC (RFC 1070) is still in
     Experimental status.  There was some discussion about whether
     changes to EON are needed and worthwhile.  Dave Katz volunteered to
     edit it and recommend it as a Proposed Standard.  John Scudder will
     try out EON in BSD/386.
     It might also be useful to have an IP in CLNP tunneling documents.

   o Mobile hosts:  Yakov Rekhter commented that TUBA will adopt
     whatever the Internet community decides on for IP.

   o Formulate RFC 1380 responses.

   o Working groups we have/want liaison with:  DNS, FTP, ATM, RARE,
     NOOP, and any working groups arising from the OSIEXTND BOF.



Presentations


Autoconfiguration ``a la'' DEC (Chris Gunner)

NSAP structure:


        |-Area Address---------|-ID-------|-SEL-|
         <------n octets------> <-6 oct--> <-1->


   o Routers are configured (by hand) with area addresses
   o End-systems ``know'' their IDs (e.g.  MAC address) and ``know''
     SEL(s)
   o Routers send IS hellos (ISO 9542) with NET (NSAP)
   o End-systems receive IS Hello and:

      -  Extract area address
      -  Create NSAP(s) (area address + ID + SEL(s))
      -  Send ES Hello(s) with NSAP(s)


The migration to new area addresses is said to be pretty easy since an
end-system can have both an ``old area'' and a ``new area'' NSAP.

Named objects, e.g.  ``node'' (system), may have protocol ``stack''
attribute information, e.g.:  (in DEC DNS)


        +---------------+     +-------------+
        | Upper Layers  | ==> | SNMP        |
        | CLNP, NSAP(s) |     | UDP, Port # |
        +---------------+     | CLNP, NSAPs |
                              +-------------+


When an end system's NSAP(s) change:


   o Update naming service entry for objects for that system
   o Requires name service protocol to do update
   o System needs to have write access to these objects


This is basically a way for end-systems to update the DNS automatically
when their addresses change.  There was some concern of how to do this
in the current DNS---Yakov commented that when standard IP DNS knows how
to do this, TUBA will adopt it unchanged.

Issues:


   o Frequency of updates

   o Update failure -- e.g.  no write access -- requires manual DNS
     override ability

   o System state information about interaction with name service
     (transient failures)



Multicast (Dave Katz)


   o Group NSAP addresses hack
     Parallel AFI space (10-99 ! A0-F9) (since AFI is in BCD)

      -  Synactically distinct but parallel space
      -  Hierarchy possible (unlike IP multicast space)

   o CLNP

      -  Multicast Data (MD) PDU
         Distinct from DT PDU
      -  Scope control options?  (``I want this packet to go only this
         many administrative hops.'')

   o ES-IS

      -  NSAP ! SNPA dynamic binding
      -  Group membership announcement
      -  Extra unicast hop -- if you want to send multicast, you unicast
         your packet to an IS which then forwards it appropriately.  You
         never get a redirect to start multicasting on the LAN.

   o IS-IS

      -  Could be changed to be MOSPF-like
      -  No active work

   o IDRP
     No work yet

   o For more information see OSI Extensions for use in the Internet BOF


ES-IS Address Administration (Dave Katz)

See ES-IS second edition.  PostScript file on merit.edu.


        ES                             IS
        --------                     --------
        "who am I?"      --->
        (to ask for an
        address)
                              <---    "You are foo" (for 18 hours)
                              <---    "You are bar"
                                      (offers some addresses, guaranteed
                                      to be reserved for ES for holding
                                      timer duration)
        "I am bar" (ESH) --->
        (to notify IS of
        who ES has decided
        to be, incl holding
        time of up to 18
        hours)


Issues:


   o May not really want automatic assignment (security concerns)

   o IS does not know some host information (e.g., IP address)---it
     might be nice to provide this input to construct the NSAP (or MAC
     address, other host-specific info)

   o How can we deny service to undesired hosts?  (e.g., send an
     end-system a bogus address to ``shut him up''


Attendees

Nick Alfano              [e-mail]
James Allard             [e-mail]
Bernt Allonen            [e-mail]
Josee Auber              [e-mail]
Anders Baardsgaad        [e-mail]
John Ballard             [e-mail]
Rebecca Bostwick         [e-mail]
Jim Bound                [e-mail]
Thomas Brunner           [e-mail]
Ross Callon              [e-mail]
Brian Carpenter          [e-mail]
George Chang             [e-mail]
Richard Colella          [e-mail]
David Conrad             [e-mail]
Tim Dixon                [e-mail]
Kurt Dobbins             [e-mail]
Jeffrey Dunn             [e-mail]
Francis Dupont           [e-mail]
Dino Farinacci           [e-mail]
Stefan Fassbender        [e-mail]
Eric Fleischman          [e-mail]
Osten Franberg           [e-mail]
Peter Furniss            [e-mail]
Eugene Geer              [e-mail]
David Ginsburg           [e-mail]
Chris Gunner             [e-mail]
Patrick Hanel            [e-mail]
Susan Hares              [e-mail]
Denise Heagerty          [e-mail]
Jack Houldsworth         [e-mail]
Chris Howard             [e-mail]
Geoff Huston             [e-mail]
Phil Irey                [e-mail]
David Jacobson           [e-mail]
J. Jensen                [e-mail]
Thomas Johannsen         [e-mail]
Dale Johnson             [e-mail]
Philip Jones             [e-mail]
Cyndi Jung               [e-mail]
Anders Karlsson          [e-mail]
Daniel Karrenberg        [e-mail]
Frank Kastenholz         [e-mail]
Dave Katz                [e-mail]
Peter Kaufmann           [e-mail]
Mark Knopper             [e-mail]
Ton Koelman              [e-mail]
Tony Li                  [e-mail]
Susan Lin                [e-mail]
Robin Littlefield        [e-mail]
Bill Manning             [e-mail]
David Marlow             [e-mail]
Cynthia Martin           [e-mail]
Peter Merdian            [e-mail]
Jun Murai                [e-mail]
Peder Chr.  Noergaard    [e-mail]
Masataka Ohta            [e-mail]
Andrew Partan            [e-mail]
David Piscitello         [e-mail]
Willi Porten             [e-mail]
Aiko Pras                [e-mail]
Juergen Rauschenbach     [e-mail]
Alex Reijnierse          [e-mail]
Victor Reijs             [e-mail]
Yakov Rekhter            [e-mail]
Robert Reschly           [e-mail]
Georg Richter            [e-mail]
Luc Rooijakkers          [e-mail]
Henry Sanders            [e-mail]
John Scudder             [e-mail]
Keith Sklower            [e-mail]
Michael St.  Johns       [e-mail]
Henk Steenman            [e-mail]
Vladimir Sukonnik        [e-mail]
Fumio Teraoka            [e-mail]
Kamlesh Tewani           [e-mail]
Richard Thomas           [e-mail]
Paul Traina              [e-mail]
Antoine Trannoy          [e-mail]
Willem van der Scheun    [e-mail]
Marcel Wiget             [e-mail]
Kirk Williams            [e-mail]
Sam Wilson               [e-mail]
Noriko Yokokawa          [e-mail]
Jessica Yu               [e-mail]
James Zmuda              [e-mail]
Romeo Zwart              [e-mail]