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- From: irish-faq@pobox.com (Irish FAQ Maintainer)
- Sender: cpm@enteract.com (Christian Murphy)
- Newsgroups: soc.culture.irish,soc.answers,news.answers
- Subject: Irish FAQ: Miscellaneous [8/10]
- Summary: everything that doesn't fit in anywhere else
- Keywords: jobs Ireland working citizenship turf shamrock
- Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!howland.erols.net!fu-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!news.space.net!news.muc.de!salmon.muc.de!irish-faq
- Followup-To: soc.culture.irish
- Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 02:10:02 GMT
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- Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu soc.culture.irish:308254 soc.answers:12712 news.answers:170630
-
- Archive-name: cultures/irish-faq/part08
- Last-modified: 6 Jul 99
- Posting-Frequency: monthly
- URL: http://www.enteract.com/~cpm/irish-faq/
-
- Part eight of ten.
-
-
- Frequently Asked Questions on soc.culture.irish with answers.
- Send corrections, suggestions, additions, and other feedback
- to <irish-faq@pobox.com>
-
- Miscellaneous
-
- 1) I'm considering looking for a job in Ireland. Any hints?
- 2) Where can I get information about moving back to Ireland?
- 3) How do I apply for Irish citizenship?
- 4) Do I qualify for Irish citizenship if my great-grandparent was Irish?
- 5) Could I not get citizenship by first getting a parent to get it?
- 6) Which Irish embassy or consulate should I contact?
- 7) Is dual citizenship allowed (for example if I'm a U.S. citizen)?
- 8) I'm an American student: can I get a working visa?
- 9) I'm looking for XXX from Ireland: how can I reach him/her?
- 10) What are black Irish and shanty Irish?
- 11) What are Scotch-Irish?
- 12) What are black protestants?
- 13) What are travellers?
- 14) How do I pronounce "celt" and "celtic"?
- 15) What's the difference between clover and shamrock?
- 16) Does anybody know the lyrics for [Danny Boy, Galway Bay, etc.] ?
- 17) Where can I order Irish turf in the U.S.?
- 18) What are Claddagh rings?
-
-
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Subject: 1) I'm considering looking for a job in Ireland. Any hints?
-
- The employment market in the Republic of Ireland has improved
- markedly in the last couple of years. There are good jobs
- to be had for people with appropriate experience, particularly
- sales/marketing, customer support and technical/engineering.
- People with fluency in one or more European languages combined
- with other skills are particularly in demand.
-
- The best places to look are the Irish Independent on Thursdays
- (business "pink pages") or Friday's Irish Times (in the Business
- Supplement). If you're interested in Dublin the Evening Herald
- is also worth a look.
-
- There are a number of websites of interest, for example
-
-
- http://www.ireland.com/recruit/
- http://www.emigrant.ie/pro/
- http://www.infolive.ie/jobfinder/
- http://www.skillsgroup.ie/
- http://www.corporateskills.com/
- http://www.exp.ie/
- http://www.chase.ie/
-
- There's also a jobs fair every Christmas called the `High
- Skills Pool', which has taken place in Dublin for the past couple
- of years. They are partly funded by the IDA and will give you
- information on companies in Ireland for free if you have any
- queries. You can also get an information pack on moving back to
- Ireland, e.g. what the tax rate is, etc.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 2) Where can I get information about moving back to Ireland?
-
- The "Irish Emigrant" newsletter has a fairly comprehensive
- guide on the web at
- http://www.emigrant.ie/living/
- called "Living and Working in Ireland".
-
- Another guide can be found at http://www.amireland.com/ireland/
- (Unfortunately you don't get to see everything without
- paying first.)
-
- The Sunday Business Post has some useful information at
- http://www.sbpost.ie/recruitment/salary-surveys/articles/article2.html
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 3) How do I apply for Irish citizenship?
-
- Anyone who has a parent or grandparent born in the Republic
- of Ireland or Northern Ireland can get an Irish passport
- by applying to your local embassy or consulate. If you are
- considering applying for Irish citizenship, you should in any
- case contact the nearest Irish diplomatic mission to make sure
- you get accurate and up-to-date information.
-
- You need to have the following :-
-
- i) For the Irish grandparent, birth certificate and marriage
- license to whoever was the other grandparent of the applicant.
-
- ii) For the parent (child of the Irish grandparent) birth
- certificate and marriage license to your other parent.
-
- iii) For you: birth certificate
-
- ALL of the above documents must have complete details that prove
- the connection. In other words, the birth certificate must show
- the names, dates of birth and places of birth of both your
- parents, so that they can be conclusively identified to be the
- same person mentioned on the marriage license and their own
- birth certificate. Irish documents seem to include these
- details automatically, but in the U.S., you may have to contact
- the Vital Statistics Bureau in the state of birth to get an
- official copy containing more details.
-
- ALL of the documents must be official, i.e., must bear the
- raised stamp of the issuing agency.
-
- You have to fill out forms, attach photographs and have it all
- witnessed, not by a notary public, but by a "clergyman, high
- school principal, lawyer or bank manager".
-
- It costs about $160 if you are claiming through your parent(s),
- in addition to the cost of getting copies of the documents. If
- you are claiming citizenship based on your grandparent(s) then
- you need to pay $270 for Registration of Foreign Birth.
-
- There's about a one-year backlog in processing applications.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 4) Do I qualify for Irish citizenship if my great-grandparent was Irish?
-
- No, a great-grandparent is too distant a relation for you
- to qualify. The rules are specified in the Irish
- Nationality and Citizenship Act, which someone has been kind
- enough to put on the web at
- http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1834/eire.txt
-
- The Act is a bit confusing and not necessarily complete.
- Check with an Irish embassy or consulate [see below] or
- a lawyer [there are several advertising their services on
- the web] for the definitive word on this.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 5) Could I not get citizenship by first getting a parent to get it?
-
- No, you can't get citizenship from a great-grandparent
- like that. You get citizenship from your parent at the
- time of your birth (see the Nationality and Citizenship
- Act,section six, subsection two). If your parent was
- not an Irish citizen when you were born, you cannot get
- citizenship from him or her later. (Obviously, this doesn't
- stop you from getting citizenship if you are entitled to it
- for some other reason.) I emphasize: none of what is said
- here about citizenship is legal advice. I could be wrong.
- Read the Act yourself, but if you want legal advice for
- your situation you will most likely have to pay a lawyer.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 6) Which Irish embassy or consulate should I contact?
-
- If you're in the States, you can choose one of the following.
-
-
- Embassy of Ireland
- 2234 Massachusetts Ave.
- Washington D.C. 20008
- tel. (202) 462-3939
- fax. (202) 232-5993
-
- Consulate General of Ireland
- Ireland House
- 345 Park Avenue - 17th Floor
- New York, NY 10154-0037
- tel. (212) 319-2555
- fax. (202) 980-9475
-
- Consulate General of Ireland
- 535 Boylston Street
- Boston MA 02116
- tel. (617) 267-9330
- fax. (617) 267-6375
-
- Consulate General of Ireland
- 400 North Michigan Ave.
- Chicago, IL 60611
- tel. (312) 337-1868
- fax. (312) 337-1954
-
- Consulate General of Ireland
- 44 Montgomery Street, Suite 3830
- San Francisco CA 94104
- tel. (415) 392-4214
- fax. (415) 392-0885
-
-
- If you live elsewhere or you want more detailed information,
- you could try looking at
- http://www.irlgov.ie/iveagh/embassies/default.asp
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 7) Is dual citizenship allowed (for example if I'm a U.S. citizen)?
-
- In general there's no problem. If you are a U.S. citizen
- you might find Rich Wales' Dual Citizenship FAQ
- at http://www.webcom.com/richw/dualcit/ useful.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 8) I'm an American student: can I get a working visa?
-
- It is possible to get a work visa for 6 months. But be warned:
- although the market has improved during the last couple of years,
- jobs are usually not as easy to come by as in the States!
- Ireland & Britain operate exchange schemes whereby Irish &
- British students can work in the USA for up to six months on
- J-1 visas and USA students can work in Ireland or Britain.
-
- Not surprisingly, service industries are probably your best
- bet. There is a fair demand for waiters/waitresses during
- the summer tourist season. Note that pubs usually require
- previous experience before they'll hire you to tend the bar.
- There are other jobs to be had but they are in niche areas.
- Whatever you look for, the best hunting strategy is often to
- just tramp from door to door.
-
- Good preparation and timing are essential. In particular, if you
- need accommodation, it's often best to look for it _after_ Irish
- students end their exams (which may be several weeks after you
- do). Contact an Irish consulate or BUNAC for more information.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 9) I'm looking for XXX from Ireland: how can I reach him/her?
-
- There are better approaches to finding someone than asking
- on soc.culture.irish. If you have access to the Web,
- you might look at http://people.yahoo.com/ or if you think
- the person you're looking has posted messages to Usenet,
- you could try looking at http://www.deja.com/ or
- you could also try using a search engine such as AltaVista
- (http://www.altavista.com/).
-
- You are not likely to be able to find someone using the Net if
- they don't use the Net themselves. The chances that someone
- reading soc.culture.irish knows them is vanishingly small.
- You're more likely to find them the "old-fashioned" way,
- by asking family, friends or relatives.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 10) What are black Irish and shanty Irish?
-
- This question has come up fairly regularly on the newsgroup
- but has never been resolved definitively. Neither "black"
- or "shanty" are used much in Ireland. They seem to be mainly
- used in America.
-
- "Shanty Irish" was used to describe the poorest of the poor
- Irish immigrants, the kind who ended up in shanty town (the
- origin of the word "shanty" is not known, but it might come
- from the Irish "sean tφ", meaning "old house"). Today "shanty"
- in the States is a derogatory term for people who in Ireland
- might be known as culchies but the people so described need
- not necessarily be of Irish descent.
-
- "Lace curtain Irish" could be as poor as the Shanty Irish but
- they had notions of being more respectable. They were called
- that because they would put up lace curtains for appearances
- sake, even in a shanty town. Thus the term is far from being
- a complement.
-
- { Thanks for clarification to Neil Cosgrove. }
-
- "Black Irish" is often taken to mean Irish people with dark
- hair and eyes. One romantic story is that they are the
- descendants of shipwrecked sailors of the Spanish Armada.
- Unfortunately for the story, it is very unlikely that enough of
- the sailors survived for their genes to be in the population
- visible today. A variation on this theme says they are
- descended from Spanish Moors who traded with people on the
- west coast of Ireland. Another explanation is that it's
- common in Irish to give people nicknames based on their hair,
- such as Seamus dubh and "black Irish" is just a carryover of
- this into English. Some people say that the "black Irish"
- were the original inhabitants of the island and all the rest
- were just blow-ins.
-
- One other interpretation is that "black Irish" refers to the
- descendants of Irish slaves taken to the Caribbean island of
- Montserrat during Cromwell's time. The descendants of these
- slaves and black slaves from Africa live there to this day.
- The surprising thing is that they still speak with an Irish
- accent!
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 11) What are Scotch-Irish?
-
- A majority of Irish people who emigrated to America in the 18th
- century were Protestants from Ulster. Most of these, in turn,
- were descendants of settlers brought in from Scotland from
- the 17th century during the so called plantation of Ulster.
- (Being Protestant, it was believed they would prove more loyal
- than the troublesome Irish.) "Scotch-Irish" usually refers to
- those emigrants or to their descendants. (Note that most Scots
- do not like being called "Scotch" nowadays, because this word
- is usually used for whisky from Scotland.)
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 12) What are black protestants?
-
- Black protestants are protestants who take their religion
- seriously. "Black" in this context means intense or
- dedicated. Answering this question, Gerard wrote: "not
- simply protestant, but a dedicated protestant, not just
- talking the talk but also walking the walk".
-
- There is some speculation as to where this expression comes
- from. One plausible source is the Irish word dubh (pr. dove,
- meaning black) which is commonly used as an intensifier.
- It might also have something to do with the Royal Black
- Institution, a body for Ulster protestants similar to
- the Orange order.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 13) What are travellers?
-
- Travellers (also known as itinerants and tinkers, though
- these names can be seen as offensive) are people in Ireland
- who have traditionally lived "on the road", typically in
- caravans moving from place to place. In many ways they
- can be seen as a separate ethnic group and they are often
- subject to ethnic prejudices and discrimination.
-
- There's a FAQ on travellers at
- http://ireland.iol.ie/~pavee/faq.htm
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 14) How do I pronounce "celt" and "celtic"?
-
- The "c" at the start of "celtic" can be pronounced soft, like
- an "s", or hard, like a "k". The most common convention is to
- always pronounce it with a hard "c" ("keltic") except when using
- it as a proper noun (e.g. Celtic Football Club, Boston Celtics,
- The Anglo-Celt newspaper).
-
- In Irish, "c" is always pronounced hard, like the letter "k"
- which is never used in Irish words. The Greeks were the
- first to write about the Celts, using the word "Keltoi",
- which suggests that the hard sound is also historically
- accurate.
-
- { Thanks for clarification to Michael Ruddy. }
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 15) What's the difference between clover and shamrock?
-
- Short answer: shamrock is smaller than clover.
-
- Long answer: shamrock and clover are both used to refer to
- species of trefoil (genus Trifolium, from the Latin meaning
- "having three leaves"). Clover is used for large species and
- shamrock for small species. Shamrock, like clover, is common
- in Europe, not just in Ireland. [Answer blatantly cogged
- from Des Higgins, resident newsgroup expert on the subject.]
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 16) Does anybody know the lyrics for [Danny Boy, Galway Bay, etc.] ?
-
- There's a list of song lyrics at
- http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/irish.html
-
- For people looking for Dubliner lyrics
- http://www2.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/music/dubliner.html
-
- Irish Folk Songs For Singing On St. Patrick's Day or Whenever
- http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~declaris/ballads/songs.html
-
- If it's not on any of the above sites, try asking on
- rec.music.celtic. Read the FAQ first, in case the answer
- is there (available at http://www.collins-peak.co.uk/rmc/).
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 17) Where can I order Irish turf in the U.S.?
-
- Bord na M≤na are offering turf (baled briquettes and wicker
- baskets of sod turf) for delivery anywhere in the 48 contiguous
- states. They can be contacted by
-
- phone (toll-free): 1-888 843 0924
- or e-mail: turf@bnm.ie
-
-
- To order, you need your full address (including ZIP code).
- Currently, credit cards are the only form of payment accepted.
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 18) What are Claddagh rings?
-
-
- There are many stories about the Claddagh ring. Claddagh
- itself refers to a small fishing village just near Galway city.
- The Claddagh ring supposedly originated in this area. The ring
- has a design of a heart being encircled by a pair of hands with
- a crown above the heart.
-
- Some more information can be found at
- http://www.enteract.com/~cpm/irish-faq/claddagh/claddagh.html
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of Irish FAQ part 8
- ***********************
-