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Subject: Irish FAQ: Miscellaneous [8/10]
Summary: everything that doesn't fit in anywhere else
Keywords: jobs Ireland working citizenship turf shamrock
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Archive-name: cultures/irish-faq/part08
Last-modified: 6 Jul 99
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URL: http://www.enteract.com/~cpm/irish-faq/

Part eight of ten.


Frequently Asked Questions on soc.culture.irish with answers.
Send corrections, suggestions, additions, and other feedback
to <[e-mail]>

Miscellaneous

1) I'm considering looking for a job in Ireland.  Any hints?
2) Where can I get information about moving back to Ireland?
3) How do I apply for Irish citizenship?
4) Do I qualify for Irish citizenship if my great-grandparent was Irish?
5) Could I not get citizenship by first getting a parent to get it?
6) Which Irish embassy or consulate should I contact?
7) Is dual citizenship allowed (for example if I'm a U.S. citizen)?
8) I'm an American student: can I get a working visa?
9) I'm looking for XXX from Ireland: how can I reach him/her?
10) What are black Irish and shanty Irish?
11) What are Scotch-Irish?
12) What are black protestants?
13) What are travellers?
14) How do I pronounce "celt" and "celtic"?
15) What's the difference between clover and shamrock?
16) Does anybody know the lyrics for [Danny Boy, Galway Bay, etc.] ?
17) Where can I order Irish turf in the U.S.?
18) What are Claddagh rings?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: 1) I'm considering looking for a job in Ireland.  Any hints?

    The employment market in the Republic of Ireland has improved
    markedly in the last couple of years.  There are good jobs
    to be had for people with appropriate experience, particularly
    sales/marketing, customer support and technical/engineering.
    People with fluency in one or more European languages combined
    with other skills are particularly in demand.

    The best places to look are the Irish Independent on Thursdays
    (business "pink pages") or Friday's Irish Times (in the Business
    Supplement).  If you're interested in Dublin the Evening Herald
    is also worth a look.

    There are a number of websites of interest, for example


    http://www.ireland.com/recruit/
    http://www.emigrant.ie/pro/
    http://www.infolive.ie/jobfinder/
    http://www.skillsgroup.ie/
    http://www.corporateskills.com/
    http://www.exp.ie/
    http://www.chase.ie/

    There's also a jobs fair every Christmas called the `High
    Skills Pool', which has taken place in Dublin for the past couple
    of years.  They are partly funded by the IDA and will give you
    information on companies in Ireland for free if you have any
    queries. You can also get an information pack on moving back to
    Ireland, e.g. what the tax rate is, etc.


------------------------------

Subject: 2) Where can I get information about moving back to Ireland?

    The "Irish Emigrant" newsletter has a fairly comprehensive
    guide on the web at
    http://www.emigrant.ie/living/
    called "Living and Working in Ireland".

    Another guide can be found at http://www.amireland.com/ireland/
    (Unfortunately you don't get to see everything without
    paying first.)

    The Sunday Business Post has some useful information at
    http://www.sbpost.ie/recruitment/salary-surveys/articles/article2.html


------------------------------

Subject: 3) How do I apply for Irish citizenship?

    Anyone who has a parent or grandparent born in the Republic
    of Ireland or Northern Ireland can get an Irish passport
    by applying to your local embassy or consulate.  If you are
    considering applying for Irish citizenship, you should in any
    case contact the nearest Irish diplomatic mission to make sure
    you get accurate and up-to-date information.

    You need to have the following :-

    i) For the Irish grandparent, birth certificate and marriage
    license to whoever was the other grandparent of the applicant.

    ii) For the parent (child of the Irish grandparent) birth
    certificate and marriage license to your other parent.

    iii) For you: birth certificate

    ALL of the above documents must have complete details that prove
    the connection.  In other words, the birth certificate must show
    the names, dates of birth and places of birth of both your
    parents, so that they can be conclusively identified to be the
    same person mentioned on the marriage license and their own
    birth certificate.  Irish documents seem to include these
    details automatically, but in the U.S., you may have to contact
    the Vital Statistics Bureau in the state of birth to get an
    official copy containing more details.

    ALL of the documents must be official, i.e., must bear the
    raised stamp of the issuing agency.

    You have to fill out forms, attach photographs and have it all
    witnessed, not by a notary public, but by a "clergyman, high
    school principal, lawyer or bank manager".

    It costs about $160 if you are claiming through your parent(s),
    in addition to the cost of getting copies of the documents. If
    you are claiming citizenship based on your grandparent(s) then
    you need to pay $270 for Registration of Foreign Birth.

    There's about a one-year backlog in processing applications.


------------------------------

Subject: 4) Do I qualify for Irish citizenship if my great-grandparent was Irish?

    No, a great-grandparent is too distant a relation for you
    to qualify.  The rules are specified in the Irish
    Nationality and Citizenship Act, which someone has been kind
    enough to put on the web at
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1834/eire.txt

    The Act is a bit confusing and not necessarily complete.
    Check with an Irish embassy or consulate [see below] or
    a lawyer [there are several advertising their services on
    the web] for the definitive word on this.


------------------------------

Subject: 5) Could I not get citizenship by first getting a parent to get it?

    No, you can't get citizenship from a great-grandparent
    like that.  You get citizenship from your parent at the
    time of your birth (see the Nationality and Citizenship
    Act,section six, subsection two).  If your parent was
    not an Irish citizen when you were born, you cannot get
    citizenship from him or her later.  (Obviously, this doesn't
    stop you from getting citizenship if you are entitled to it
    for some other reason.)  I emphasize: none of what is said
    here about citizenship is legal advice.  I could be wrong.
    Read the Act yourself, but if you want legal advice for
    your situation you will most likely have to pay a lawyer.


------------------------------

Subject: 6) Which Irish embassy or consulate should I contact?

    If you're in the States, you can choose one of the following.


    Embassy of Ireland
    2234 Massachusetts Ave.
    Washington D.C. 20008
    tel. [phone]
    fax. [phone]

    Consulate General of Ireland
    Ireland House
    345 Park Avenue - 17th Floor
    New York, NY 10154-0037
    tel. [phone]
    fax. [phone]

    Consulate General of Ireland
    535 Boylston Street
    Boston MA 02116
    tel. [phone]
    fax. [phone]

    Consulate General of Ireland
    400 North Michigan Ave.
    Chicago, IL 60611
    tel. [phone]
    fax. [phone]

    Consulate General of Ireland
    44 Montgomery Street, Suite 3830
    San Francisco  CA  94104
    tel. [phone]
    fax. [phone]


    If you live elsewhere or you want more detailed information,
    you could try looking at
    http://www.irlgov.ie/iveagh/embassies/default.asp


------------------------------

Subject: 7) Is dual citizenship allowed (for example if I'm a U.S. citizen)?

    In general there's no problem.  If you are a U.S. citizen
    you might find Rich Wales' Dual Citizenship FAQ
    at http://www.webcom.com/richw/dualcit/ useful.


------------------------------

Subject: 8) I'm an American student: can I get a working visa?

    It is possible to get a work visa for 6 months.  But be warned:
    although the market has improved during the last couple of years,
    jobs are usually not as easy to come by as in the States!
    Ireland & Britain operate exchange schemes whereby Irish &
    British students can work in the USA for up to six months on
    J-1 visas and USA students can work in Ireland or Britain.

    Not surprisingly, service industries are probably your best
    bet.  There is a fair demand for waiters/waitresses during
    the summer tourist season.  Note that pubs usually require
    previous experience before they'll hire you to tend the bar.
    There are other jobs to be had but they are in niche areas.
    Whatever you look for, the best hunting strategy is often to
    just tramp from door to door.

    Good preparation and timing are essential.  In particular, if you
    need accommodation, it's often best to look for it _after_ Irish
    students end their exams (which may be several weeks after you
    do).  Contact an Irish consulate or BUNAC for more information.


------------------------------

Subject: 9) I'm looking for XXX from Ireland: how can I reach him/her?

    There are better approaches to finding someone than asking
    on soc.culture.irish.  If you have access to the Web,
    you might look at http://people.yahoo.com/ or if you think
    the person you're looking has posted messages to Usenet,
    you could try looking at http://www.deja.com/ or
    you could also try using a search engine such as AltaVista
    (http://www.altavista.com/).

    You are not likely to be able to find someone using the Net if
    they don't use the Net themselves.  The chances that someone
    reading soc.culture.irish knows them is vanishingly small.
    You're more likely to find them the "old-fashioned" way,
    by asking family, friends or relatives.


------------------------------

Subject: 10) What are black Irish and shanty Irish?

    This question has come up fairly regularly on the newsgroup
    but has never been resolved definitively.  Neither "black"
    or "shanty" are used much in Ireland.  They seem to be mainly
    used in America.

    "Shanty Irish" was used to describe the poorest of the poor
    Irish immigrants, the kind who ended up in shanty town (the
    origin of the word "shanty" is not known, but it might come
    from the Irish "sean tφ", meaning "old house").  Today "shanty"
    in the States is a derogatory term for people who in Ireland
    might be known as culchies but the people so described need
    not necessarily be of Irish descent.

    "Lace curtain Irish" could be as poor as the Shanty Irish but
    they had notions of being more respectable.  They were called
    that because they would put up lace curtains for appearances
    sake, even in a shanty town.  Thus the term is far from being
    a complement.

    { Thanks for clarification to Neil Cosgrove. }

    "Black Irish" is often taken to mean Irish people with dark
    hair and eyes.    One romantic story is that they are the
    descendants of shipwrecked sailors of the Spanish Armada.
    Unfortunately for the story, it is very unlikely that enough of
    the sailors survived for their genes to be in the population
    visible today.    A variation on this theme says they are
    descended from Spanish Moors who traded with people on the
    west coast of Ireland.    Another explanation is that it's
    common in Irish to give people nicknames based on their hair,
    such as Seamus dubh and "black Irish" is just a carryover of
    this into English.  Some people say that the "black Irish"
    were the original inhabitants of the island and all the rest
    were just blow-ins.

    One other interpretation is that "black Irish" refers to the
    descendants of Irish slaves taken to the Caribbean island of
    Montserrat during Cromwell's time.  The descendants of these
    slaves and black slaves from Africa live there to this day.
    The surprising thing is that they still speak with an Irish
    accent!


------------------------------

Subject: 11) What are Scotch-Irish?

    A majority of Irish people who emigrated to America in the 18th
    century were Protestants from Ulster.  Most of these, in turn,
    were descendants of settlers brought in from Scotland from
    the 17th century during the so called plantation of Ulster.
    (Being Protestant, it was believed they would prove more loyal
    than the troublesome Irish.)  "Scotch-Irish" usually refers to
    those emigrants or to their descendants.  (Note that most Scots
    do not like being called "Scotch" nowadays, because this word
    is usually used for whisky from Scotland.)


------------------------------

Subject: 12) What are black protestants?

    Black protestants are protestants who take their religion
    seriously.  "Black" in this context means intense or
    dedicated.  Answering this question, Gerard wrote: "not
    simply protestant, but    a dedicated protestant, not just
    talking the talk but also walking the walk".

    There is some speculation as to where this expression comes
    from.  One plausible source is the Irish word dubh (pr. dove,
    meaning black) which is commonly used as an intensifier.
    It might also have something to do with the Royal Black
    Institution, a body for Ulster protestants similar to
    the Orange order.


------------------------------

Subject: 13) What are travellers?

    Travellers (also known as itinerants and tinkers, though
    these names can be seen as offensive) are people in Ireland
    who have traditionally lived "on the road", typically in
    caravans moving from place to place.  In many ways they
    can be seen as a separate ethnic group and they are often
    subject to ethnic prejudices and discrimination.

    There's a FAQ on travellers at
    http://ireland.iol.ie/~pavee/faq.htm


------------------------------

Subject: 14) How do I pronounce "celt" and "celtic"?

    The "c" at the start of "celtic" can be pronounced soft, like
    an "s", or hard, like a "k".  The most common convention is to
    always pronounce it with a hard "c" ("keltic") except when using
    it as a proper noun (e.g. Celtic Football Club, Boston Celtics,
    The Anglo-Celt newspaper).

    In Irish, "c" is always pronounced hard, like the letter "k"
    which is never used in Irish words.  The Greeks were the
    first to write about the Celts, using the word "Keltoi",
    which suggests that the hard sound is also historically
    accurate.

    { Thanks for clarification to Michael Ruddy. }

------------------------------

Subject: 15) What's the difference between clover and shamrock?

    Short answer: shamrock is smaller than clover.

    Long answer: shamrock and clover are both used to refer to
    species of trefoil (genus Trifolium, from the Latin meaning
    "having three leaves").  Clover is used for large species and
    shamrock for small species.  Shamrock, like clover, is common
    in Europe, not just in Ireland.  [Answer blatantly cogged
    from Des Higgins, resident newsgroup expert on the subject.]


------------------------------

Subject: 16) Does anybody know the lyrics for [Danny Boy, Galway Bay, etc.] ?

    There's a list of song lyrics at
    http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/irish.html

    For people looking for Dubliner lyrics
    http://www2.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/music/dubliner.html

    Irish Folk Songs For Singing On St. Patrick's Day or Whenever
    http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~declaris/ballads/songs.html

    If it's not on any of the above sites, try asking on
    rec.music.celtic.  Read the FAQ first, in case the answer
    is there (available at http://www.collins-peak.co.uk/rmc/).


------------------------------

Subject: 17) Where can I order Irish turf in the U.S.?

    Bord na M≤na are offering turf (baled briquettes and wicker
    baskets of sod turf) for delivery anywhere in the 48 contiguous
    states.  They can be contacted by

    phone (toll-free): 1-888 843 0924
    or e-mail:  [e-mail]


    To order, you need your full address (including ZIP code).
    Currently, credit cards are the only form of payment accepted.


------------------------------

Subject: 18) What are Claddagh rings?


    There are many stories about the Claddagh ring.  Claddagh
    itself refers to a small fishing village just near Galway city.
    The Claddagh ring supposedly originated in this area.    The ring
    has a design of a heart being encircled by a pair of hands with
    a crown above the heart.

    Some more information can be found at
    http://www.enteract.com/~cpm/irish-faq/claddagh/claddagh.html

------------------------------

End of Irish FAQ part 8
***********************