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Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!dreaderd!not-for-mail Message-ID: <autos/chrysler-faq/general/part2_1083675484@rtfm.mit.edu> Supersedes: <autos/chrysler-faq/general/part2_1082292761@rtfm.mit.edu> Expires: 2 Jun 2004 12:58:04 GMT References: <autos/chrysler-faq/general/part1_1083675484@rtfm.mit.edu> X-Last-Updated: 2004/04/13 Followup-To: poster From: faq@allpar.com (Dr. David Zatz) Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.answers,news.answers Subject: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 2/6 Organization: http://www.allpar.com/ Summary: Engines, bodies, what should I do? Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU Originator: faqserv@penguin-lust.MIT.EDU Date: 04 May 2004 12:58:55 GMT Lines: 527 NNTP-Posting-Host: penguin-lust.mit.edu X-Trace: 1083675535 senator-bedfellow.mit.edu 578 18.181.0.29 Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu rec.autos.makers.chrysler:239526 rec.answers:86893 news.answers:270840 Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part2 Posting-Frequency: 15 days Last-modified: 2004/4/13 Version: 4.4 This section is generally revised every 300 days. IMPORTANT. Do not attempt to respond to faq@allpar.com. Due to spam this address DOES NOT GO ANYWHERE. Instead, reply to faq2 at that allpar /dot/ com address. Thank you. - - - - - - - - - - - - DISCLAIMER: While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein. Some of the information is presented as opinion rather than fact. The writers and the maintainer do not claim to be authorities. information below may be reproduced in any way IF credit is given to the writers and maintainer; and that it is not published in book or magazine form without the prior written permission of the maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without asking, a FREE copy of the final material; and that no changes are made (except for formatting) without the express permission of the maintainer (faq@allpar.com = David Zatz). - - - - - - - - - - - - If you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably NOT a current edition. The latest copy may be obtained from http://www.allpar.com/faq.html - - - - - - - - - - - - PART II *************************CONTENTS***************************** What should I do... 1. ... before I post? 2. ... (removed) 3. ... if I have problems with Chrysler? 4. ... if I own this car? (list of models and what to look for) Oil Filter Discussion List of All Engines Since 1966 1. Guide to V-8s 2. New transmission designations decoded (new!) List of All Body Styles Since 1966 *********************************************************************** BEFORE POSTING WITH COMPLAINTS/QUESTIONS 1. Check the FAQ. Most answers are there. 2. Please don't post messages like "this broke and I will speak to the dealer about it sometime." Go to the dealer first; if they cannot fix it, and it is not in the FAQ, THEN go to the newsgroup. 3. If you are having problems with Chrysler, and have not yet read the relevant FAQ section, please do so. At least call them (800-992-1997). 4. If you are having problems with Chrysler and are angry and bitter at them, an angry message or two is fine. But you won't help anyone by going overboard. *********************************************************************** HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP. *********************************************************************** (Note: Thanks to Dan Adams for his help with parts of this - Chrysler Corp should be grateful to have him!) * The order in which you should deal with a problem is something like this: 1. Speak politely but assertively with the service writer. 2. Ask to go for a ride with the mechanic and discuss relevant issues wuth them. 3. Service manager. 4. 800 992 1997. 5. Zone (voluntary buyback negotiations IF APPLICABLE) 6. Arbitration / Consumer Affairs / Attorney General if applicable AND needed. * Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take "no" for an answer but do *not* act angry or make threats. Chrysler often helps, even out of warranty, but they need to be gently pushed; they are generally defensive; and what they know about customers and customer service would fit into a microscope slide. The Customer Center reps also often don't know what they're talking about, so elaboration may help. If all else fails, call back and speak to someone else. Always take down their name for your reference! * Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, your computer codes, and recalls before you visit the dealer with a problem. * Don't expect Chrysler to change something because it's listed in a TSB (technical service bulletin). TSBs describe solutions to problems which may not apply to your car; they are *not* recalls, though Chrysler often fixes cars out of warranty if there is a known problem and TSB on it. (Daniel Adams notes that Chrysler sometimes extends transmission warranties to 100,000 miles; there are extended warranties on some a/c parts and ABS systems). * Even if you are in an adversarial relationship, act in a friendly, nonthreatening, non-adversarial manner. It works better and makes both parties less angry. * Daniel Adams writes: Chrysler corparte headquarters does tend to back the field reps but a good service writer can get to them and help you more than you would believe. Don't take your frustration out on the service writers, they carry quite a bit of pull behind the scenes * Don't take "no" for an answer. Call Chrysler at 800-992-1997 from a pay phone if you have to. They will call the dealer. Often, the dealer will discover they don't need to charge you or keep your car after all! * If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get another dealer. Or try the newsgroup. * If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work, etc., get another dealer. * If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at the Customer Center. You may need to deal with a zone rep, the final word at Chrysler. Others can overrule them but THEY WILL NOT. Some reps are good. Others are useless. There have been many reports that the reps in some areas are exceedingly sensitive and need to be handled with kid gloves. (See message about service writers above -- they can often get action where ordinary mortals cannot). * Note: if, as Continental Auto Body (of Wyckoff, New Jersey) did to my car, your dealer should get your car into an accident, immediatly retain a lawyer and find out what your options are. Examine the damage personally before they have a chance to cover it up and lie about it. ****** NON-CHRYSLER SOLUTIONS ****** (after internal solutions fail) courtesy of http://www.acarplace.com/ * Contact your local consumer affairs department. Note: May not work in states with a predominantly anti-government/libertarian attitude. 1. File an official lemon law complaint with your state. This will get their attention and help negotiation. You can usually get a better deal through negotiation than in court. Hiring a lemon law specialist may help - good ones will offer to negotiate *first.* Chrysler has a reputation for being easy! 2. Go through the Customer Arbitration Board. Results with this group have been mixed. * Most lawyers don't know the first thing about lemon law! A good one will know the people at the zone office and will try to talk nice to them to solve the problem. If negotiation is not their first move, they are not the right lawyer. * Your chances of getting cash are slim. You will probably get a credit (buy-back). You will usually not get all of your money back. Chrysler tends to follow state laws; most impose a penalty on each mile of use before the first lemon-type complaint. This is normal and OK. * Go through the latest TSBs again. Something new might have come up. *Whenever your dealer lies to you or is too incompetent, send a letter to Dealer Agreements or the Customer Center, Box 302, Centerline, MI 48015. It may not help you but it might help someone else! (Actually, it may not help anyone else, either). * If in a dispute with a five-star dealer, feel free to return your customer satisfaction survey with very negative ratings. Dan Adams assures us that these surveys are taken very seriously. Be aware that all surveys are also given to the dealers - not just in aggregate form, but the individual surveys - so be careful what you say, don't go overboard. For more details on what happens to your surveys, see http://www.allpar.com/fix/surveys.html. * If you get into a dispute with an auto body shop, check your state's laws to see what regulations and rules might be applicable. ************************************************************************ WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CAR/ENGINE? Note: you are strongly advised to also visit the Troubleshooting section (part 4). If a problem is noted, with no solution, the solution is listed in the Troubleshooting section. ENGINES 2.2/2.5 turbo: -- check for fuel leaks and loose fuel line connections -- head gasket failure (possibly due to heavy use) Any 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine: -- oil leaks from the valve cover gasket and oil pan. -- oil seeping into airbox or air hose -- poor idle from any number of causes (see part 5) Any Mitsubishi engine -- high oil consumption -- replace the timing belts on time! Carbureted V-8/slant six engines -- replace the crankcase inlet air filter regularly. -- keep a spare ballast resistor in your glove compartment -- make sure the stove and damper (vacuum-powered valve) are working Any engine without DIS (if you have a rotor, this applies to you) --- -- Check your timing, it may have been set wrong at the factory. -- Other problems may be caused by low quality rotor or different brand rotor and distributor cap. (Standard-Bluestreak was recommended by Dan Stern. There have been malformed Mopar 2.2/2.5 caps). TRANSMISSIONS 4-speed automatic -- 1989-94: watch for early failure and press Chrysler to pay for repairs. -- all: Change fluid regularly with *recommended* fluid. -- KNOW the right fluid (owner's manual ONLY). Do NOT trust mechanics. The right fluid for 1988-1998 transmissions is Type 7176. The right fluid for 1999 and up models is ATF+4. See http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html -- DO NOT use non-recommended fluid or ANY additives. -- Check for TSBs and have the computer replaced if needed. If a dealer doesn't feel/hear it, find another. Persist until they follow the TSB. The new computer save wear and tear on the transmission for various reasons. (Note: 1996+ transmissions have software-upgradable computers) -- MOST problems are due to MAINTENANCE ISSUES. Do the maintenance with EXACTLY the fluids and parts recommended! -- Chrysler has informally extended some transmission warranties due to earlier problems. -- AGAIN, DO NOT USE DEXRON! Do not trust any mechanic! ASK! 5-speed manual transmission, pre-1994 (non-MMC): -- Seepage from the transaxle is common. CC may fix it for free even if out of warranty. Then again, they may not. BRAKES ABS -- 1990-93 Bendix systems (all brands) may have early problems. On Chrysler products, the trouble-prone ABS-10 was on minivans, New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, Imperial, Eagle Premier, Dodge Dynasty, and Dodge Monaco. *** There has been a RECALL on these systems and the warranty on them has been extended to 100,000 miles, according to reports. -- You may be able to prevent problems with ABS systems by changing the brake fluid every 2-4 years. See the Web site at http://www.allpar.com/ CARS Neon -- see the Neon FAQ. -- whining noise from the computer for 3-4 minutes after the engine is shut, periodically, is normal. -- engine light comes on: see Computer Codes, part 3. -- bad head gasket (1995-97 models): seems to affect EVERY Neon. Chrysler will pay for part of a replacement depending on your mileage. Some will get a free new head gasket, some will pay $100, some are not covered. The replacement should last longer. -- Other Neon issues - see http://www.allpar.com/neon/neon.html PAINT COLORS Metallic paints are more prone to problems. Blue seems to be more prone to problems. Red is known for fading and peeling. Note: this applies to all brands of cars and trucks. There is a paint problem FAQ you may be interested in - it's referenced at http://www.allpar.com/autolinks.html Paint application is getting better all the time; failures in the 1980s and 1990s do not mean that Chrysler will have problems with current vehicles. Other brands experienced the same problems... ******************** OIL FILTER DISCUSSIONS ********************* Removed due to age ******************* CONSUMER REPORTS DISCUSSIONS ******************* Transferred to Web site, http://www.allpar.com/cr.html *********************************************************** From Lloyd Parker, updated since then: **** Engines used in Chryslers since 1966: * denotes an engine still in production for Chrysler vehicles 4 cylinders 1.4 (MMC) -- Colt, Champ 1.4 (CC/Rover) - in development, export only, for new minicar 1.5 (Sunbeam) -- Cricket (British) 1.5 (MMC) -- Colt, Summit 1.6 (MMC) -- Colt, Champ, Challenger, Sapporo, Arrow 1.6 (Peugeot) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo 1.6 turbo (MMC) -- Colt 1.6 DOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Summit 1.6 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Colt 1.6 (CC/Rover) - in development, export only, for new minicar originally; Now just for the Mini and export Neons 1.7 (VW) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo 1.8 (MMC) -- Colt, Vista, Summit, Laser, Talon 1.8 (CC)* -- Neons outside the US 2.0 (MMC) -- Arrow, Vista 2.0 DOHC (MMC) -- Laser, Talon 2.0 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Laser, Talon 2.0 SOHC * -- Neon 2.0 DOHC * -- Neon, Sebring, Avenger, Talon, Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze 2.2 -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo, Aries, Lancer, Reliant, Shadow, Sundance, 400, 600, Caravelle, Caravan, Voyager, LeBaron, Laser, Daytona, New Yorker, E-Class, Executive, Limousine (note: TBI and carb versions) 2.2 turbo -- LeBaron, New Yorker, Limousine, Laser, Daytona, Lancer, TC, 600, Shadow, Caravelle, Sundance, Omni, Charger, E-Class, Shelby (note: MPI) 2.2 DOHC turbo -- Spirit, Daytona (joint venture with Lotus) 2.2 DOHC turbo -- TC (joint venture with Maserati) 2.2 (Renault) -- Medallion 2.4 (MMC) -- Vista, Summit 2.4* DOHC (CC) -- Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze, 1996+ minivans, PT 2.4 Turbo (CC) - PT GT, SRT-4, Mexican Stratus R/T 2.5 (CC) -- minivans, Aries, Reliant, Shadow, Sundance, Duster, 600, Lancer, Dynasty, Daytona, Spirit, Acclaim, LeBaron, Caravelle, Dakota (to 1995) - no carb versions 2.5 turbo (CC) -- minivans, Spirit, Acclaim, Shadow, Sundance, LeBaron, Daytona (Note: MPI) 2.5 (AMC) -- Wrangler, Cherokee, Premier, Dakota (96+) 2.6 (MMC) -- New Yorker, E-Class, Executive, Limousine, LeBaron, 400, 600, Aries, Reliant, Caravan, Voyager 2.6 turbo (MMC) -- Conquest (MMC) [Coming up - Hyundai engine tweaked by Mitsubishi and Chrysler for use in all three lines] 2.5 is 2.2 with balance shafts, minor changes. 2.0 (CC) is 2.2 with different heads, fuel system, some tweaks. 3.9 V-6 (below) based on 318. 2.4 is 2.0 with balance shafts, other minor changes. Chrysler families: 2.2/2.5, 2.0/2.4 ---------------------------------- V-6: 2.5* (MMC) -- Sebring, Avenger, Cirrus, Stratus (based on 3.0) 2.7* LH series (1998-2001), Stratus/Sebring 3.0 (MMC) -- LeBaron, TC, minivans, New Yorker, Spirit, Dynasty, Daytona, Stealth, Shadow ES, Acclaim, Duster 3.0 (Renault) -- Premier, Monaco 3.2 LH series (1998+) 3.3* New Yorker, Dynasty, LH series, minivans 3.5* LH series (1998+), Prowler (steel and aluminum versions) - Chrysler considers the aluminum version to be entirely new 3.7* V-6 for trucks (2002+) 3.8* New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial, minivans - bored 3.3 3.9 trucks (3.9 is based on the 318) Chrysler-made V6 families are 2.7/3.2, 3.3/3.5/3.8, 3.9/318 MMC 2.5 and 3.0 are related ---------------------------------- The SLANT SIX (share basic design) 2.8 (170) -- Dart, Valiant, Lancer, Barracuda (Canada), A100, D100 3.3 (198) -- Barracuda, Challenger, Dart, Valiant, Duster, Scamp 3.7 (225)-- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Mirada, Diplomat, St. Regis, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite, Barracuda, Valiant, Duster, Scamp, Volare, Lancer ---------------------------------- STRAIGHT SIXES (flat head) - various sizes - ended in late 1950s for cars 215 - Australian Valiants 245 - Australian Valiants 265 - Australian Valiants 4.0* (AMC) -- Cherokee, Wagoneer, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee 4.2 (AMC) -- Wrangler Families: 215/245/265, 4.0/4.2, flat heads The Australian straight sixes was built on a basic design intended for use in American trucks. They changed from the slant six to Australian-built 215, 245, and 265 sixes in 1970. The Aussie models had hemispherical heads, so the 3-2barrel Weber version could honestly be called a Hemi Six-Pack. ---------------------------------- V-8s 4.5 (273) -- Dart, Valiant, Barracuda, Coronet, Belvedere, Satellite 4.7* -- 1999 Grand Cherokee, Charger R/T (CNG), next-gen Rams 5.2 (318) -- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, St. Regis, Magnum, Mirada, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, VIP, Belvedere, Satellite, Road Runner, Barracuda, Valiant, Scamp, Duster, Volare, Cordoba, LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, Gran Fury, Imperial, Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer, Diplomat, Demon, pickups and SUVs thru 2001. 5.6 (340) -- Charger, Challenger, Dart, Barracuda, Duster, Road Runner, Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi (354) -- Ram trucks, LX cars (2002+) 5.9 (360) -- LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, 300, Cordoba, Diplomat, Polara, Monaco, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Gran Fury, Barracuda, Duster, St. Regis, pickups and SUVs thru 2002. (345) -- Hemi Magnum engine for trucks, next-gen large cars 5.9 (361) -- Coronet, Charger, Belvedere 5.9 (360-AMC) -- Grand Wagoneer 6.3 (383)-- Newport, 300, Town & Country, Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Challenger, Dart, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite, Road Runner, Barracuda, Magnum 6.6 (400) -- Newport, New Yorker, Town & Country, Monaco, Fury, Road Runner, Gran Fury, Charger, maybe Cordoba, Magnum 7.0 (426, Hemi & Wedge) -- Belvedere, Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda, Challenger, Charger, Coronet, Daytona, Superbird 7.2 (440) -- Newport, New Yorker, 300, Town & Country, Imperial, Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Challenger, Fury, VIP, Belvedere, Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda, Daytona, Superbird ---------------------------------- 8.0 V-10* -- Viper, Ram trucks (two versions, fairly different) Truck version (cast iron) ended in 2002. Aluminum continues. ---------------------------------- Gary Howell clarifies: ** Small blocks (except new 4.7) ** 273/318/340/360 are LA engines they look the same from the outside. LA stands for "Lightweight-casting A" [There is now an A/LA page at http://www.allpar.com/mopar/318.html] 273 cu. in. 1964-69 3.31 stroke and 3.63 bore 318 cu. in. 1968-91 3.31 stroke and 3.91 bore 340 cu. in. 1968-73 3.31 stroke and 4.04 bore 360 cu. in. 1971-91 3.58 stroke and 4.00 bore The A engines (not LA) are older small blocks and look the same on the outside to each other. The blocks are different in deck height, but share some internal components with the LA block. The cylinder heads and intake are different. 277 cu. in. 1956 3.75 bore and 3.12 stroke 301 cu. in. 1957 3.91 bore and 3.12 stroke 318 cu. in. 1957-67 3.91 bore and 3.31 stroke The Magnum 318 and 360 engines are LA engines with different cylnder heads. The blocks are physically the same as the earier LA engines, except the oil passage for the shaft mounted rockers is not drilled, because the Magnum engines oil through the push rods. The boss is there if you need to use the old style heads. ** Big Blocks ** There are eight different big blocks. The B blocks are short deck and the RBs are tall deck. The RBs require a wider intake manifold. [RB engine page: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html] B: 350, 361, 383, 400 RB: 383, 413, 426 Wedge (not Hemi), 440 All B engine use 3.38 stroke crank with different bores, and all RB engines use 3.75 stroke crank with different bores. You'll notice that the 383 is listed in two differnent places. There were two different 383s; the RB is very rare, only produced 64. The 350 was only produced in 1958. *********************************************************** NEW TRANSMISSION DESIGNATIONS (Courtesy Daniel Adams <dadams@sccoast.net>) On the new transmissions (e.g. 41TE), the numbers and letters actually mean something: 4 amount of forward gears 1 the torque rating for the trans (on a 1-8 scale 1 lowest 8 strongest) t or r transaxle or rear wheel drive e or h electronic or hydraulic The 1999 Grand Cherokee will have an optional 5-speed automatic. Transmission list with details on many types of transmission: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions.html *********************************************************** CAR BODY TYPES (Below list courtesy Lloyd R. Parker; a tad out of date now) -- Updated a bit 2003. Has some Jeeps. A -- Valiant, Dart, Barracuda, Scamp, Duster, Lancer, Demon, Twister B -- Coronet, Charger, Magnum, Monaco, Premier, Belvedere, Satellite, GTX, Road Runner, Fury, Cordoba C -- Polara, Monaco, Fury, VIP, Gran Fury, Newport, 300, Town & Country, New Yorker, Imperial, Dynasty D -- Talon, (Plymouth) Laser E -- Barracuda, Challenger, 600, Caravelle, E-Class, New Yorker F -- Aspen, Volare G -- Daytona, (Chrysler) Laser H -- Lancer, LeBaron (hatchback) J -- LeBaron (coupe/convertible), Cordoba, Imperial, Mirada K -- LeBaron, Executive, Limousine, Aries, Reliant, 400, 600 L -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo M -- Diplomat, LeBaron, New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, Gran Fury, Caravelle (non-US) P -- Shadow, Sundance, Duster Q -- TC by Maserati R -- St. Regis, Gran Fury, Newport, New Yorker S -- Town & Country, Caravan, Voyager Y -- New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial AA -- LeBaron (sedan), Spirit, Acclaim, Saratoga (non-US) AS -- Second-generation minivans (third-gen was NS) FJ -- Sebring, Avenger (based on MMC Galant) JA -- Cirrus, Stratus, Breeze JR -- "Revised J" - second-gen Stratus, Sebring JX -- Sebring convertible LH -- Concorde, New Yorker, LHS, Intrepid, Vision, 300M LX -- Magnum, 300C, others NS -- Third generation minivans (fourth is RS) PL -- Neon PR -- Prowler PT -- PT Cruiser (you knew that!) RS -- Fourth-generation minivans SR -- Viper XJ -- Cherokee, Wagoneer YJ -- Wrangler ZJ -- Grand Cherokee, original Grand Wagoneer SJ -- Grand Wagoneer PJ -- Talon (based on MMC Galant)