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- NATION, Page 17How's That Again?
-
-
- By Jerry Brown
-
-
- Jerry Brown's stream-of-consciousness style of politics
- was on display last week as he tried to explain his tax-reform
- proposals in a meeting with TIME's editors in New York:
-
-
- Q. Most economists say your plan for a 13% flat tax and a
- 13% value-added tax would result in higher tax bills for
- middle-and lower-income people. Did you think the idea through
- very thoroughly?
-
- A. I thought a lot about it, and what I thought was this:
- that all these little tax proposals that I've watched are empty
- and meaningless. They don't add up to anything. It's just a
- game of churning the tax code, and I think it feeds the
- corruption. And my spirit of reform fits into the idea of
- simplifying the tax code and taking the politics out of it. And
- I believe economists recognize the efficiency, the incentive for
- saving and investment, that this tax proposal has.
-
- In terms of its effect on different income groups, the
- present system is highly regressive. If you're making $45,000,
- you are, in many cases, in a 43% marginal tax bracket. Because
- you have 15.3% if you attribute the whole Social Security tax
- to the employee, and you have your 28% [income tax]. And it's
- a very regressive tax and admits of no deductions.
-
- By abolishing the Social Security tax and combining it
- under one 13% [flat rate] and allowing for a deduction for
- rent, charity or home mortgage, you're actually making it very
- progressive. And I'll give you an example. If you're in the
- lowest 20%, your income is $5,000, you pay 5.6%. If you're in
- the top 20%, your income is $76,000, you pay 10.8%. It's because
- the estimated value of your three deductions or your two
- deductions diminishes as a proportion of your income as you go
- up the income scale.
-
- And, in terms of the value-added tax, [economist Lester]
- Thurow was talking about that, [economist Robert] Heilbroner's
- talking about that. They do it in Europe. It is, I believe, when
- you use it as replacement rather than add-on, it does not have
- an increase price effect to the whole economy. But it is price
- neutral, and it's a matter of what the market conditions are.
- And I'm sure that if people can raise the price, they'll do so.
- And since most shares of stock are owned by the wealthiest
- people, when you put a 13% tax on business, as this is, I think
- it will fall proportionally on those with higher incomes. And
- I'm now working to try to get some numbers to demonstrate that.
-
- And in terms of alleviating [the burden on] the people
- who have the least income, I think that should be done with
- direct expenditures in a way that there are earned income tax
- credits, and ways in which you allocate a specific targeted
- amount to put a floor under people to alleviate poverty. I think
- that's a much more effective way of doing it. Because every time
- you start playing with the tax code, invariably it gets into
- the hogs feeding and the auctioning off of loopholes. And I
- think that's corrupting. I think it's economically distorting,
- and I believe this would generate a lot of saving and
- investment, push us ahead economically.
-
- And then, in terms of distribution, I believe if we
- strengthen our labor laws, if we make it easier to spread out
- employee stock options to get more ownership distributed, and
- if we use a positive expenditure program, we can take care of
- the requirements of social equity.
-
-
- Q. When you start with an earned income tax credit,
- doesn't that open the way for yet other exceptions, and then you
- no longer have a flat tax?
-
- A. Well, it's an expenditure. You know, in France they
- give people child assistance. You can give people a government
- check.
-
-
- Q. Is that what you're advocating?
-
- A. Yes. Hey, I'm the campaign of the people. Clinton is
- the campaign of the fat cats.
-
-
- Q. What's the revenue assumption here?
-
- A. I think maybe it's less. You see, when you make the
- transition, there's about $80 billion of depreciation that's out
- there. So you have to account for that. And that's why [I set
- the rate] at 13%. But this thing might be lower than 13%. The
- idea is to collect the same amount of money as was collected
- last year.
-
-
- Q. And, therefore, still have a $270 billion deficit?
-
- A. Well, if you want to deal with that, you can add a
- point. You get $70 billion more every time you add one point.
- I'm not for that because, first of all, I want to establish this
- as an efficient form of taxation and do it in a revenue-neutral
- way.
-
-
- Q. If it turned out that you needed to go to 16%, would
- you favor that?
-
- A. The goal is to get revenue neutrality. I think it is
- below 13%. I took 13% as [being] just on the high side.
-
-
- Q. You'd postpone dealing with the deficit for half a
- decade?
-
- A. No. I don't like to quote [conservative economist]
- Milton Friedman, because I'm running in the Democratic primary.
- But he did say the only problem he had with this proposal --
- this is what I've heard, I didn't hear him, someone told me --
- is that it would create so much revenue for government that
- he's afraid they'd spend it.
-
-
- Q. Could you tell us who the intellectual parents of this
- plan are?
-
- A. I'm gathering a list of economists I'll make available
- very soon.
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