OS/2 Shareware BBS: 15 Message/15-Message.zip/oe990925.zip/Oe990924.txt

Text File | 1999-09-26 | 207KB | 5,166 lines

                  General OS/2 Discussion          (Fidonet)

                 Saturday, 18-Sep-1999 to Friday, 24-Sep-1999

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From: paul marwick                                      16-Sep-99 08:48:01
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   18-Sep-99 04:56:11
Subj: File Managers

Hi Roy

Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Jack Stein:

 RJT> Actually I have both versions running here.  And yes,  even the OS/2
 RJT> version is a little rough when it comes to long filenames,  it
 RJT> doesn't display the whole name.  And it barfs on bigger than 2G
 RJT> partitions,  as well.

InspectA displays long filenames without too many problems. In terms of the
normal disply, it depends on how it is set up and there is a limit to the
number of characters that it will display.

A trick for a long filename is to ivoke the FILES.BBS edit function - place
the cursor over the long filename and press insert. Inspect will then prompt
for a description to whatever the filename is. I've not seen it run out of
display characters in that mode..

regards, paul

--- FleetStreet 1.24.1
 * Origin: madHouse Inc  -  Brisbane,  QLD (3:640/820)
280/801
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From: Leonard Erickson                                  17-Sep-99 11:48:07
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   18-Sep-99 04:56:11
Subj: Character sets

 -=> Quoting Roy J. Tellason to Murray Lesser <=-

 RJT> Murray Lesser wrote in a message to Leonard Erickson:

 ML> My first "ASCII" computer was a fully-populated CP/M machine
 ML> (64K RAM), vintage 1979.

 RJT> Wow.  In those days that was a lot of ram!  <g>

 ML> All my previous programming experience was on either 6-bit or
 ML> 8-bit machines, none of which used any version of ASCII.

 RJT> What used six bits?

Well, I don't know what *he* was using, but I learned assembly on an
ancient Honeywell that used 6-bit words. I don'ty recall how much RAM
it had, but some years back I had occasional to loook for the "hardware
manual" I still had from that course. The *maximum* it could have was 32k!




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From: Murray Lesser                                     18-Sep-99 06:41:00
  To: Kenneth Abrams                                    18-Sep-99 06:41:00
Subj: Backup

(Excerpts from a message dated 09-15-99, Kenneth Abrams to Murray
Lesser)

Hi Kenneth--

KA>So, tell me, how do *you* squeeze a 3-4M ZIP file onto a 1.44M
  >floppy, eh?

    I don't have any occasion to do so.  I would copy such files to a
100 MB Zip diskette.  If you don't have a Zip Drive, there are "native
OS/2" utilities that will copy a large file to a spanned flock of
floppies.  IIRC, one such is a "freeware" IBM EWS program.  Also, there
is the latest version of PKZIP/PKUNZIP for OS/2 that will span a set of
floppies as it compresses the original files.

 ML>     Since the backups are records of current contents of my hard
 ML> drive, there is no problem in knowing which directory the original was
 ML> stored on, since it still exists.

KA>Unless, of course, you foolishly wipe out an entire
  >directory and then wish to "restore" it. My experience with my one
  >time use was that until *I* remembered what the original path was
  >and specified it, all I got was errors that seemed to imply the
  >backup was bad.

    Since I use command-line utilities for most file maintenance, I
would find it very difficult to inadvertently wipe out both the contents
of a directory and the directory, in a single operation.  But if I were
to do so, I would probably realize what I had done after a very short
interval, so I would remember the name of the top directory.  One of the
virtues of RESTORE is that if you use the "/S" switch, you can restore
all the subdirectories of the named original directory in the same
operation that restores that directory.

    This interchange has been a good example of why one should not
generalize on one's own practices to apply to another person.  I
apologize for attempting to answering your original post to me.

    Regards,

        --Murray
<Team PL/I>
___
 * MR/2 2.25 #120 * There, that will do until a REAL explanation comes along.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


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From: John Hicks                                        18-Sep-99 13:18:00
  To: Lee Lawson                                        18-Sep-99 11:24:17
Subj: Compaq + OS2

Thanks Lee for the reply. I'll try installing warp 3 again sometime when I
have the necessary disk space available. Thanks again.
---
 * Origin: RemoteAccess (64-3-3493236) V32B V42B CHCH,New Zealand (3:770/116)

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From: Kenneth Duke                                      17-Sep-99 22:27:02
  To: Holger Granholm                                   18-Sep-99 11:24:17
Subj: Re: BGFAX reg

*** Quoting Holger Granholm from a message to Paul Hildebrandt ***

PH>I've tried to register BGFAX by internet but haven't recieved a
PH>reply. Does anyone know how to get a reg code for this program?

Just Email the author...  thats the easiest thing to do.. He takes just about
any form of payment...

BJ is a great guy... I've had a registered copy for over 6 years now..

[e-mail] is his email address..


--- Telegard/2 v3.09.g2-sp3/mL
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From: LEE ARONER                                        17-Sep-99 00:03:00
  To: MURRAY LESSER                                     18-Sep-99 11:24:17
Subj: Character sets

ML>     If you read my original post to George, rather than his excerpts
  > from it in his post to me, you would know that I stated that ASCII was
  > (and is) a seven-bit code.  It was embedded in 8-bit media (primarily
  > mag tape) in an additional ANSI Standard in (IIRC) 1965, after IBM had
  > announced its family of 8-bit machines: S/360.  The first desktop
  > computers used ASCII as a 7-bit code embedded in an 8-bit character set,
  > for reasons I have never understood.  As I said in my original post, the
  > "upper 128" (heretofore unused) character codes were added by the IBM PC
  > designers in 1981, who called it "extended ASCII."  AFAIK, there is no
  > official standard for an 8-bit code based on ASCII.

   There is an ANSI standard, I believe...

                                       LRA


 -- SPEED 2.01 #2720: There is no XXXXXXX place for censorship!
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From: Gord Hannah                                       17-Sep-99 08:39:00
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   18-Sep-99 11:24:17
Subj: File Managers

Hi Roy, hope you are having a nice day! :-)

16-Sep-99 00:51:10, Roy J. Tellason wrote to paul marwick
          Subject: File Managers


 RJT> FED025S.ZIP   190771 09-15-99* [    ] Fast Editor Lite - written as a
 RJT>                                replacement for Qedit, includes source

 RJT> Anybody want it?  Feel free...

Send me a copy please Roy.

Hope this helps.  Keep us posted.

We are a fine board trying to make it better.

http://www.pris.bc.ca/ghannah
[e-mail]
Cheers!
Gord Hannah
-=Team OS/2=-

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From: Nick Andre                                        18-Sep-99 02:50:15
  To: All                                               18-Sep-99 11:24:17
Subj: Mp3's

Hi!

I need a freeware/open source MP3 encoder (RECORDER!!!) for OS/2 Warp 3.

My stereo equipment is hooked through the LINE-IN port on my Soundblaster pro,
so I'm in DESPERATE need of *ANY* utility that would capture from the line-in
port direct to MP3 format. Most utilities I've come across require EMX or some
other DLL which I don't have, so I'm preferring *FULLY WORKING* utilities
please! :)

I don't have Internet, but am willing to FREQ from anybody who can help.

TTYL,
Nick.

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From: Alan Hess                                         16-Sep-99 21:39:28
  To: all                                               18-Sep-99 11:24:17
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can the files in the
two be combined somehow?  *adh*

--- Msged/2 TE 05
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From: Holger Granholm                                   17-Sep-99 21:49:00
  To: Mike Ruskai                                       18-Sep-99 15:11:23
Subj: Objects

In a message dated 09-15-99, Mike Ruskai said to Holger Granholm:

 HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment.

MR>The most likely reason I can see for that is that your motherboard
MR>will only cache 16MB worth of RAM.  OS/2 used memory from the top
MR>down, so putting 32MB in would make OS/2 use 16MB worth of uncached
MR>RAM first.

Hi Mike,

That's the conclusion I have arrived at too. The MB manual doesn't
specify this parameter.

Have a nice day,

Holger

___
 * MR/2 2.26 * Alzheimers advantage: New friends every day.


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)
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From: Bat Lang                                          17-Sep-99 16:42:18
  To: All                                               18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: Death knell for client version?

====================================

From: "Brad Wardell"
Subject: Judgement Day results
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:46:45 -0400

In 1998, Stardock took the position that if IBM had no current or
projected plans for a new fat OS/2 client, that it was in the interests of
OS/2 users and the computing community in general that a third-party
should work with IBM to license OS/2 technology on an OEM basis and make a
new client available.

To that end, late last year, Stardock prepared a business plan and opened
negotiations with IBM. The wheels of bureacracy grind slowly, but
eventually it was up to "IBM" (executive level) to make the ultimate call
on proceeding.

For the past 6 months, Stardock and IBM have been working closely together
in hammering out the details of an OS/2 client. Everything from potential
names down to which minute components would or would not be included.
These meetings included multiple in-person meetings with IBM staff and
executives here at Stardock's office complex in Livonia Michigan.

With an agreement in principle in place, the last major hurdle was this
week in which the IBMers in favor of our proposal (mostly in Austin)
presented their case to IBM as a whole.

The call has been made -- there will be no new client from Stardock and
IBM has indicated that they have no plans for an OS/2-based client of
their own.

Though IBM indicated Stardock had the strongest proposal, they have
decided that it is currently not in IBM's or their customer's interests to
license any current OS/2 technology on an OEM-basis.

There was never any discord between IBM and Stardock over financials,
technical viability, target market, or the like. IBM has simply finally
made the decision that a new OS/2 client would be in conflict with their
strategic directions.

Stardock would like to extend a special thanks to all the IBMers (and in
particular Ken Christopher and Timothy Sipples) who went above and beyond
the call in working with us and going to bat inside IBM. Remember when you
meet folks like them, who are and have been intimately involved with OS/2,
that their hands may be just as tied as yours when the IBM Corporation as
a whole sets policy.

Everything that could be done was done.

Brad


Brad Wardell
Product Manager: Object Desktop & The Corporate Machine
http://www.stardock.com

==========================

Remember, I'm just the messenger!  }^:  Good Modeming!  /\oo/\


... FidoNet-Mail: 1:382/92 or E-mail: [e-mail]

--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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From: Bat Lang                                          18-Sep-99 01:23:01
  To: Gord Hannah                                       18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: File Managers

 -=> Quoting Gord Hannah to Jack Stein, [16 Sep 99  20:11:18] <=-

 GH> Maybe we should think about starting another net called oldfarts net
 GH> and use our old files and systems to run it. :-))

If your dad was 67 when he got his first computer and it had W95 on it,
then you're young enough to be my son! You certainly wouldn't qualify
for an oldfart. {^;  Good Modeming!  /\oo/\


... FidoNet-Mail: 1:382/92 or E-mail: [e-mail]

--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: Rendezvous!! 8gigs_20000files_500echoareas 512-303-1324 (1:382/92)

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From: Andy Roberts                                      16-Sep-99 18:47:27
  To: Jack Stein                                        18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: File Managers

 Jack Stein,

14-Sep-99 19:36:59, Jack Stein wrote to Andy Roberts
 JS> Andy Roberts wrote in a message to Jack Stein:
          Subject: File Managers

 AR>>> It's not too late to switch to FC/2. <gd&r>

 JS>> Before I consider that, does FC/2 handle full REXX support in
 JS>> it's menu command yet?

Try it and see for yourself.

 AR>> Oh wait a moment, I see what you are trying to do.  You want it
 AR>> to Create a DeskTop Object of some highlighted file.  Yes that is
 AR>> already hard coded into FC/2 Alt-F6.

 JS> OK, I was just giving ONE example.  As for hard coding, nope, no
 JS> good.  You notice that in this example, I changed some of the
 JS> parameters, for example, any objectid I create has "OS2C_"
 JS> prefixed the the OBJECTID.

You can add "OS2C_" on the fly with FC/2 Alt-F6.

 JS> Now maybe you don't care about this, but I do, and I'm sure there are
 JS> things you do care about that you can't do without full REXX support in
 JS> the menu system.

I don't know about that.  I do everything with CMD files.  I fill in my blank
Icon template and name it the same as the CMD file.  Then FC/2 Alt-F6 nicely
puts that on my DeskTop, where I drag it to it's permanent home.  If I have
used REXX in the FC.MNU, then it because mentally I don't separate REXX from
any other typical OS/2 command.

 JS> Does FC/2 Alt-F6 even create an OBJECTID for the Icon it creates?

I guess so.  If I have a special Icon then it uses it.  If I don't have a
prepared Icon then it uses the OS/2 default.

 JS> That is a BIG issue with me, since I control lots of things with the
 JS> OBJECTID?

Here I go showing my ignorance again.  Just learned to use Drag'n'Drop for
the 1st time last month, and now ObjectID.  What do you use ObjectID for?  And
why is that an advantage?

 JS> There are lots of scripts I use that are perfect for the menu, things I
 JS> use over and over, whether REXX is involved or not. It just gives total
 JS> flexability, something I always prefer over limitations.  I don't recall
 JS> the exact capabilites of FC/2's menu system, does it even support
 JS> non-rexx scripts (batch files)

Sure

 AR>> Sheesh.. You mean you have to put all that stuff in a menu.
 AR>> You've been working too hard.  You better get FC/2 quick.
 AR>> <gd&r>(again)

 JS> You would never believe how many CMD files I have on this
 JS> system...

Oh yes I would, since I have hundreds of CMD files here.

 JS> your right though, I spent too much time playing with all that stuff,

Take a little time to play with FC/2.  I took a little time to glance at OS2C
when you and Bat Lang said it was the best many years ago.  In the end I
registered FC/2.  I'm just trying to get even. <g>

 JS> I'm off to a new hobby now... billiards....  my new passion... Not a
 JS> digital bit in sight:-Oh, the guy running the league had a computer
 JS> crash... they sent him to me... I of course told him I don't know JACK
 JS> about WIN...  Rack'em!

Ugh Oh, we have a hussler in here. <g>

     Thanks and Good Luck,        Andy Roberts
                                  [e-mail]
--- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at
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From: George White                                      13-Sep-99 09:44:00
  To: Leonard Erickson                                  18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: Character sets

Hi Leonard,

You wrote to me about my message to Murray Lesser:

LE> -=> Quoting George White to Murray Lesser <=-

LE> ML>    Nowadays, the Average Idiot Home User hasn't heard of any character
LE> ML>code other than ASCII, if even that :-(.  As you well know, the stupid
LE> ML>collating sequence of ASCII is due to the great desire of AT&T to pack
LE> ML>everything they thought anybody would ever want into seven bits, while
LE> ML>letting the presence of a single bit differentiate between lower- and
LE> ML>upper-case alpha characters (a desirable characteristic only for fully
LE> ML>mechanical terminals).

LE>ASCII *was* defined in 1963 (or was it 68?) you know. It was originally
LE>intended as a standard for moving data between different brands of
LE>mainframes (which all had their *own* character sets back then)

I hope Murray sees this, I wasn't interested in this aspect of the
message. As you have raised it with me, according to a reference I have
here (C Programmers Guide to Serial Communications by Joe Campbell),
the official title of the ASCII specification is "ANSI Standard
X3.4-1977 (Revised 1983), Code for Information Interchange", so from
this I believe it's more recent than the dates you remember.

LE>Also, that uppercase/lower case distinction being on bit was important
LE>for programmers writing *tight* code. I used to use that single bit
LE>trick in programs back when 16k or DRAM cost several hundred dollars.

It certainly can make life easier for the programmer, and I've taken
advantage of it in my own code :-).

LE> ML>Making sense (from a computer-architectural
LE> ML>standpoint) has never been a requirement for standards committees!  (I
LE> ML>have a great dislike, based on many years of past participation, of
most
LE> ML>computer-related standardizing activities.  The standards committee
LE> ML>members seem to be more interested in showing how smart they are than
in
LE> ML>following Euripides' "legacy" law of computer architecture:  "The gods
LE> ML>visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.")

LE> GW> I think of the ANSI screen control sequences as a classic example of
LE> GW> that "cleverness", even though they are really DEC terminal control
LE> GW> sequences.

LE>They are derived from DEC control sequences for the VT-52. The ESC was
LE>turned into ESC[ so that DEC wouldn't have an unfair advantage in the
LE>market. The VT-100 came *after* the X3.64 standard was defined.

That counts in my book as "really". just changing "ESC" to "ESC[" does
nothing to change the basis of the control sequences. How a change as
simple to incorporate as that can be considered as removing an "unfair
advantage" when Joe Campbell's (Op Cit) description of writing the code
to interpret it (an input driver) is "a Herculean labor" (it's an
American book and I'm retaining the American spelling used therein). The
full quote on programming for ANSI is:

  "From the programmer's point of view, writing a driver for ANSI output
is slightly more difficult than for other kinds of terminals because
ANSI expresses all numeric parameters as ASCII digits instead of binary
numbers. But if ANSI output is not particularly difficult, writing code
for an ANSI input driver is a Herculean labor. Because the identifying
code (the "Final") occurs last or next to last (if an Intermediate is
present), there is no way to ascertain at the beginning of a control
sequence how long it will be. Remember, there may be a variable number
of ASCII numeric parameters and/or selective parameters. If necessary
parameters are missing from the control string, defaults must be
supplied. All input from the CSI through the Final (or
Final-Intermediate combination) must therefor be buffered, then parsed
into functions and parameters."

LE> ML>    As to why the PC architecture included the use of ASCII as an
LE> ML>internal character code: since I had nothing to do with the IBM PC
LE> ML>development, I have only some conjectures.  The PC was developed by a
LE> ML>semi-independent group in Florida.  The then upper management of IBM
LE> ML>didn't believe it was ever going to go anywhere, so probably didn't
care

LE> GW> Original estimate was 250,000 units over 5 years according to an
LE> GW> article in Byte in 1990. It should have been dead, buried, and history
LE> GW> by now...

LE> ML>that the original perpetrators were using their 8-bit version of ASCII
LE> ML>instead of EBCDIC!  The character-code choice may have had something to
LE> ML>do with the fact that the 7-bit version of ASCII (embedded in eight
LE> ML>bits) was being used in most desktop machines up to that date.  (My
CP/M
LE> ML>machine, vintage 1979, used a so-called ASCII terminal that had no way
LE> ML>to input the high-order eighth bit.)  Only some word processors of the
LE> ML>time used that bit for anything.

LE>Excuse me, but you've made the same mistake 3 times so far. There is no
LE>such thing as "8-bit" ASCII nor a "the 7-bit version of ASCII". ASCII
LE>is *defined* as a 7-bit set. Any 8-bit set with the lower 128
LE>characters matching ASCII is an "extended ASCII" and *not* any sort of
LE>official variant of ASCII.

I haven't made any mistakes I'm aware of, Murray might have but I'll let
him defend himself - he's quite well able to.
I am well aware that ASCII is a purely 7 bit code, and that the normal 8
bit IBM PC character set includes _most_ (but definitely not all) of the
7 bit ASCII character set. I've been programming using ASCII since
before the IBM PC was even thought of...

LE>It *can* be a standard in its own right, such as the various ISO
LE>8859-xx character sets.

Agree totally, but again they are definitely _NOT_ ASCII.

LE> ML>(to some extent) "upward compatible" from CP/M.  IMO, the PC fathers
did
LE> ML>the best that they could to make ASCII barely usable, supplying both
the
LE> ML>missing "upper" 128 characters and also text-mode graphic symbols for
LE> ML>the otherwise useless (by then) ASCII control characters.

LE>ASCII *has* no "upper 128".

Sort this out with Murray, I totally agree with you.

LE>And by the time the PC was being designed it was quite clear that the
LE>32-126 range had to be the same as ASCII for a machine to do well in
LE>the market, and that the more common control chars had to be supported.
LE>*Why* they made DEL a printable char I have no idea.

I don't have either...

George
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Study the past, if you would divine the future.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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From: David Noon                                        15-Sep-99 19:25:00
  To: Adam Cameron                                      18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: win-os2 and AIM

In a message dated 09-12-99, Adam Cameron said to David Noon about "win-os2
and AIM"

Hi Adam,

 AC> I have a Windows 3.1 version of AIM (AOL Instant Messagener). But, it
 AC> crashes all the time and completely locks up the system.

 AC> Warp 4 with FP9. Anything I can change to fix this?

 DN> When it crashes, press Alt+Esc [no, not Ctl+Esc] to get back to the
 DN> WPS.

AC>The crash causes the entire computer to lock up, mouse
AC>locks up, display locks up, everything.

Are you running it in a full-screen or seamless WIN-OS/2 session?

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>
___
 * MR/2 2.25 #353 * "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for
those who think." - de la Bruyere

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Air Applewood, OS/2 Gateway to Essex 44-1279-792300 (2:257/609)

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         14-Sep-99 18:47:16
  To: George White                                      18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: Character sets

 GW> "From the programmer's point of view, writing a driver for ANSI
 GW>  output is slightly more difficult than for other kinds of terminals
 GW>  because ANSI expresses all numeric parameters as ASCII digits instead
 GW>  of binary numbers. But if ANSI output is not particularly difficult,
 GW>  writing code for an ANSI input driver is a Herculean labor. Because
 GW>  the identifying code (the "Final") occurs last or next to last (if an
 GW>  Intermediate is present), there is no way to ascertain at the
 GW>  beginning of a control sequence how long it will be. Remember, there
 GW>  may be a variable number of ASCII numeric parameters and/or selective
 GW>  parameters. If necessary parameters are missing from the control
 GW>  string, defaults must be supplied. All input from the CSI through the
 GW>  Final (or Final-Intermediate combination) must therefor be buffered,
 GW>  then parsed into functions and parameters."

Hence AVATAR ...

 » JdeBP «

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         15-Sep-99 20:56:04
  To: Andy Roberts                                      18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: Announcing the OS/2 Command Line Utilities version 2.0

 BW>> The one I found on Hobbes looked like this
 BW>> Os2Clu02.Zip  99-09-02 589,012

 AR> That probably got date touched somewhere.

It was modified as I uploaded it to Hobbes.  There is no way to preserve the
date and time stamps of a file when uploaded using FTP.

 » JdeBP «

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         15-Sep-99 21:25:06
  To: Murray Lesser                                     18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: TOUCH

 ML> As I understand it, Jonathan's original TOUCH utility used the
 ML> "system" to correct the user-provided file date (if invalid) to what
 ML> the system thinks the next valid date might be, so the fact that the
 ML> system thinks 2100 is a leap year could have a deleterious effect if
 ML> you are counting on that program to do your thinking for you that far
 ML> in advance!  (I gather, from his announcement, that this has been
 ML> corrected in his latest edition.)

There was never anything to correct.  TOUCH passes dates and times as
specified on its command line to the operating system exactly as they stand,
and always has done.

The plain fact of the matter is that it was when testing TOUCH that I
discovered that the operating system, or more specifically the filesystem
drivers, actually modifies the dates and times that are passed in a
DosSetPathInfo() call in certain cases, and the actual date and time that is
set on the file is thus not the value that was passed to the operating system
in the system call.

The FAT filesystem driver silently translates all years beyond 2099 to the
year 2099, but is quite happy with nonsense dates like the 31st of February.
The HPFS filesystem driver has a completely different set of bugs, on the
other hand.  It silently converts nonsense dates like the 31st of February to
the nearest real date, but this code contains a bug in that it doesn't know
that the year 2100 is not a leap year, and allows the date 2100-02-29 to be
set on a file or directory.

 » JdeBP «

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         16-Sep-99 18:35:17
  To: Cyrill Vakhneyev                                  18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: DIGCLOCK/ANACLOCK

 CV> JFYI: Your clocks, both digital and analog, shows me time in China
 CV> I think :) TZ is set correctly.

Setting TZ is not all that you have to do.

VIEW OS2CLU02 RTC

 » JdeBP «

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         16-Sep-99 18:40:26
  To: Darren Hamilton                                   18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc

 DH> I find it hard to believe that *every* programmer is querying the RTC
 DH> rather than using the DosQuerySysInfo API function.

You may find it hard to believe, but it's nevertheless largely true.  They use
DosGetDateTime(), which is a function that reads the "raw" hardware clock,
rather than DosQuerySysInfo() which reads the 64-bit clock provided by the
OS/2 kernel.  This is a "DOS think" legacy.  Application and compiler library
developers used to read the RTC hardware pretty much directly in DOS, and the
habit carried over into OS/2 application and compiler library development.

The irony is that this particular piece of "DOS think" even infects
development that otherwise has a strong UNIX background.  EMX C++, with its
roots in GNU compilers and UNIX traditions, would have been the prime
candidate for getting timekeeping right on 32-bit OS/2.  This is because
32-bit OS/2 keeps time in pretty much the same way as UNIX does.  But even EMX
C++ uses DosGetDateTime() to read the hardware clock, alas!

( I did suggest at the beginning of this year that some enterprising EMX C++
hacker patch the EMX runtime library so that it works properly, by ripping out
the DOS think code and putting in code to do things correctly.  They could
start with the GNU libc code and work from there.  The irony of EMX C++ is
that the GNU libc code for handling time, which EMX C++ *doesn't* use, would
actually pretty much work properly and do the right thing on 32-bit OS/2 with
little alteration. )

This whole subject was discussed at length in this echo at the beginning of
this year.  I won't go over it all again in this message, but will mention one
thing:  You can compromise between having the OS/2 kernel keep time correctly
and the broken applications that were written with the "DOS Think" mindset.
Simply keep your hardware RTC in local time and set your TZ environment
variable so that it indicates that your timezone is always offset 0 hours from
UTC.  (For example, for Eastern Australian Standard Time use a TZ environment
variable value of, say, "EST0EDT0".)  The OS2CLU02 commands, and everything
else that uses 32-bit OS/2 as it was actually designed to work, will calculate
local time correctly, and the broken "DOS think" applications will also
calculate local time correctly.

Of course, there are several undesirable side-effects of this compromise: You
won't be able to run multiple programs in different timezones concurrently, as
one *can* do if 32-bit OS/2's timekeeping mechanism is used as it was actually
designed; file and directory timestamps won't be maintained in UTC and thus be
portable from system to system independent of timezone (as they should be --
this is another little understood facet of 32-bit OS/2's timekeeping); and
*no* program will be able to calculate UTC correctly, so you will not be able
to use UTC at all should you desire to do so.

However, if you are prepared to live with the above side effects, this
compromise should be acceptable.

One more thing ...

 » JdeBP «

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         16-Sep-99 18:40:27
  To: Darren Hamilton                                   18-Sep-99 16:01:26
Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc

 DH> This includes OS/2 Warp v3.0 (FP 40) time and date functions, [...]

You have something to look forward to.

Not only do the DATE and TIME commands supplied with the 32-bit CMD command
interpreter display the current timezone and support the /N switch (which
IBM's documentation describes, you will find, but which the 16-bit CMD does
not actually implement), but they *also* operate correctly when it comes to
timezone support and the TZ environment variable.  So, too, incidentally, do
the various date and time sequences in the PROMPT environment variable.

Cut and pasted from another window:

        [C:\]ver
        CMD 0.1.14   OS/2 2.40.0
        [C:\]set TZ
        TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1
        [C:\]prompt $D $T $u [$P]
        Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]date /n
        Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 +0100
        Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]set TZ=EST-10EDT,M10.5,M3.5
        Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 EST [C:\]date /n
        Current date is: Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 +1000
        Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:02 EST [C:\]set TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1
        Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 BST [C:\]date
        Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 +0100
        Enter a new date:

 » JdeBP «

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From: Scott Jones                                       17-Sep-99 10:40:17
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   18-Sep-99 21:50:00
Subj: Re: File Managers

-=> Roy J. Tellason wrote to Bat Lang <=-


 RJT> On that subject,  is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files,
 RJT> other than actually making the floppies?

You can always use the dskxtrct utility to extract the *.DSK image to
your HD (as with the FP images).

                              Scott Jones
                        ([e-mail])


... The box said, "Requires Windows 95 or Better", so I bought OS/2.

--- MultiMail/OS/2 v0.29
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Russell Tiedt                                     17-Sep-99 18:09:25
  To: All                                               18-Sep-99 21:50:00
Subj: StarOffice?

Hi,

A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I would like to
install it but I seem unable to get a registration code from the
"stardivision.com" web site for some reason.
Does anyone have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it.

Go well, and God bless,

Russell
--- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+
 * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23)
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From: MIKE RUSKAI                                       17-Sep-99 23:57:00
  To: MARK ELLIS                                        18-Sep-99 23:29:02
Subj: Re: Objects

Some senseless babbling from Mark Ellis to Mike Ruskai
on 09-17-99  08:19 about Re: Objects...

[snip]

 MR> Memory is quite cheap these days.  I spent over $1200 on the 32MB I put
in
 MR> that 486, but I recently spent less than $100 for an additional 128MB for

 MR> this machine.

 ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) 4meg 30
 ME> pin  simms around these parts.

I've been buying online since before the Internet craze started.  You can
always find cheaper prices via mail order, and can hunt for the best one.
I just did a quick check, and 32MB of RAM in 4MB 30-pin SIMMs can be had
for less than $50.  That's US dollars, of course, though I don't think your
Canuck money is down that far in comparison these days :)

Mike Ruskai
[e-mail]


... Be careful what you ask for. You never know who's lurking.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2
 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE!  WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140)
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From: MIKE RUSKAI                                       18-Sep-99 00:00:00
  To: EDDY THILLEMAN                                    18-Sep-99 23:29:02
Subj: Objects

Some senseless babbling from Eddy Thilleman to Holger Granholm
on 09-17-99  00:07 about Objects...

 ET> Hello Holger,

 ET> 14 Sep 99 20:58, Holger Granholm wrote to Mike Ruskai:

 HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment.
 HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds
 HG> with 32 Mb RAM.

 ET> I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA cards
 ET> can't address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA SCSI-cards.

 ET> I've 128 MB RAM and my Netscape v4.04 loads in 7 seconds (I timed it).

It takes 17 seconds here for version 4.61, which is a real dog on startup.
This is with a PII/233 with 192MB of RAM.

The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or not they perform bus
mastering DMA.  Since ISA slots only have a 24-bit DMA available to them,
they limit OS/2's direct addressing ability to 16MB.  Anything above that
is used as fast swap space.

Mike Ruskai
[e-mail]


... Freedom of religion is also freedom FROM religion. . .

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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From: Jean-Michel Dossogne                              18-Sep-99 07:10:19
  To: All                                               19-Sep-99 06:36:09
Subj: Alea jacta est...

Bad day today for our pc's..

* Transfere par Jean-Michel Dossogne (2:293/3202)
* Area : DOGGY-WARP (OS/2 E-Zine Niouze (ML, lecture))
* Le   : Vendredi 17 Septembre 1999
* De   : os2news_warpcast                   3054:3054/43
* Vers : Toutes et tous!
* Sujet: news V1 #187

@RFCID: <[e-mail]>
news                           Fri, 17 Sep 1999          Volume 1 : Number 187

In this issue:

>.....
        [WarpCast] Judgement Day results
>....

              Warpstock 99 - Atlanta, October 16-17, 1999
                    Two fun filled days of OS/2 and YOU!
          Register by September 6, 1999 to receive a discount!
               Visit http://www.warpstock.org for full details.

****************************** WarpCast ******************************
>..........

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99 14:16:51
From: "WarpCast Submissions" <[e-mail]>
To: "" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [WarpCast] Judgement Day results
Message-ID: <[e-mail]@ns2.falcon-net.net>

Source: fonz ([e-mail])
Moderator: Christopher B. Wright ([e-mail])
**********************************************************************

In 1998, Stardock took the position that if IBM had no current
or projected plans for a new fat OS/2 client, that it was in the
interests of OS/2 users and the computing community in general that
a third-party should work with IBM to license OS/2 technology
on an OEM basis and make a new client available.

To that end, late last year, Stardock prepared a business plan and
opened negotiations with IBM. The wheels of bureacracy grind slowly,
but eventually it was up to "IBM" (executive level) to make the ultimate
call on proceeding.

For the past 6 months, Stardock and IBM have been working closely
together in hammering out the details of an OS/2 client. Everything
from potential names down to which minute components would or would
not be included.  These meetings included multiple in person
meetings with IBM staff and executives here at Stardock's office
complex in Livonia Michigan.

With an agreement in principle in place, the last major hurdle
was this week in which the IBMers in favor of our proposal (mostly in
Austin) presented their case to IBM as a whole.

The call has been made -- there will be no new client from Stardock
and IBM has indicated that they have no plans for an OS/2 based
client of their own.

Though IBM indicated Stardock had the strongest proposal, they have
decided that it is currently not in IBM's or their customer's interests
to license any current OS/2 technology on an OEM-basis.

There was never any discord between IBM and Stardock over financials,
technical viability, target market, or the like.  IBM has simply finally
made the decision that a new OS/2 client would be in conflict with
their strategic directions.

Stardock would like to extend a special thanks to all the IBMers
(and in particular Ken Christopher and Timothy Sipples) who went above
and beyond the call in working with us and going to bat inside IBM.
Remember when you meet folks like them, who are and have been
intimately involved with OS/2, that their hands may be just as tied
as yours when the IBM Corporation as a whole sets policy.

Everything that could be done was done.

Brad

-+-
Brad Wardell
Product Manager: Object Desktop & The
Corporate Machine
http://www.stardock.com

------------------------------
>............

------------------------------

End of news V1 #187
*******************
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or for more information on
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

 + Origin: Doggy's BBS (3054:3054/43)
===================================================================

:-(

--- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+
 # Origin: Doggy's BBS Philippeville Belgique [phone] (8:7620/1)
 # Origin: FamilyNet Intl. Echogate [708] 230-9068 (1:115/887)
 * Origin: The TALKING HUB * Alexandria, VA * [phone] (1:109/11)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: paul marwick                                      17-Sep-99 09:20:18
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 06:36:09
Subj: File Managers

Hi Roy

Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Bat Lang:

 RJT> On that subject,  is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files,
 RJT> other than actually making the floppies?

It depends on the format of the .dsk (IBM appears to have updated the creation
program at some stage). However, for a number of them (certainly including all
the current Fixpack images) DIUNPACK can be used to dump the contents to the
hard drive. It can be found bundled with any version of FASTKICK, and I'm
fairly sure I've seen it on its own as well...

regards, paul

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From: Dan Egli                                          18-Sep-99 21:32:21
  To: All                                               19-Sep-99 06:36:09
Subj: OS/2 and SoundBlaster AWE64

Ok all. How do I get my SoundBlaster AWE64 configured w/ Warp 4?
And if possible, I do NOT want the mmpm stuff installed. I never use it so its
a waste of space. If absolutely necessary, I'll install it. But Prefferable
solutions will give me access to the SB Card in programs w/o installing all
the PM controlls, and the wav and AVI files.

Thanks!

... I know a good tagline when I steal one.

---
 * Origin: Default originline (1:311/50)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Peter Knapper                                     19-Sep-99 15:14:24
  To: Mike Ruskai                                       19-Sep-99 06:36:09
Subj: Objects

Hi Mike,

 MR> The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or
 MR> not they perform bus mastering DMA.  Since ISA slots only
 MR> have a 24-bit DMA available to them, they limit OS/2's direct  MR>
addressing ability to 16MB.  Anything above that
 MR> is used as fast swap space.

While the 16MB direct Bus Master DMA limit is true as you say, it actually
depends a lot on the driver for the ISA card. When I upgraded the BBS machine
from a 16Mb 486DX2-66 to a 32Mb K6-300 I changed the Adaptec 1540C to a PCI
NCR based card because of the ISA DMA issue, but this change seemed to result
in a moderately rare (every 15-20 days operation), but totally fatal
reliabilty problem.
While researching driver updates for the NCR card I discovered that a refresh
of the OS/2 AHA154X.ADD file appeared early 1998 which allowed me to enable
Double Buffering -

  BASEDEV=AHA154X.ADD /V /DBUFF /ET

Using the above parameter it allows the card to work fine and was a great
help, I have (had) about 3 of these cards lying around here.

Of course there is a little catch in that it can require an extra move of the
data in memory before the application can have it, reducing performance by a
small amount, but at least it keeps a good reliable old card still usable.

Cheers.........pk.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Alan Hess                                         18-Sep-99 23:26:02
  To: all                                               19-Sep-99 08:23:21
Subj: NC 4.61

I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has anyone
installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if it's possible and
works that way.

--- Msged/2 TE 05
 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Holger Granholm                                   18-Sep-99 21:12:00
  To: Eddy Thilleman                                    19-Sep-99 08:23:21
Subj: help please?

In a message dated 09-15-99, Eddy Thilleman said to Holger Granholm:

HG> So, is it the G200 AGP card drivers/BIOS everybody has been discussing
HG> here fore a while?

ET>I don't know what you mean by this remark. There has been discussion
ET>about Matrox G200 AGP- and about Matrox G200 PCI-cards.

OK, thanks.

Have a nice day,

Holger

___
 * MR/2 2.26 * Air conditioned environment - Do not open Windows.


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Murray Lesser                                     18-Sep-99 20:08:00
  To: Will Honea                                        18-Sep-99 20:08:00
Subj: Cache

(Excerpts from a message dated 09-17-99, Will Honea to Murray Lesser)

Hi Will--

ML>      Deleting the leading "rem " from the line in CONFIG.SYS (leaving
ML> the install-provided: "DISKCACHE=D,LW") and rebooting, I get 3204
ML> KB resident system space and 512 KB of disk cache.  As you will
ML> recognize, the additional 4KB (one page) for resident system is in
ML> the noise, and can be ignored.  This data led me to believe that
ML> there was no default assignment of "DISKCACHE" memory in my system,
ML> in spite of what it said in on-line help!

WH>Last time I had OS2MEMU up, the D parameter was working as advertised
  >- but I also have a couple of FAT partitions.  That may impact the
  >assignment as opposed to floppy-only systems.

    Your post aroused my curiosity, so I ran some more tests.  I have a
small partition (51 MB) that I call my "pseudo virtual drive" since it
gets formatted by STARTUP.CMD.  I use it as a working Drive:  All the
junk left over from compiling (or from running Netscape/2) vanishes with
STARTUP.CMD, saving me a lot of file housekeeping.  So, for these tests,
I formatted it FAT instead of the usual HPFS, thereby giving me one FAT
partition on my hard drive (this system - ThinkPad 365XD - has only one
hard drive).

    When I booted with the DISKCACHE= statement REMmed out of
CONFIG.SYS, I got essentially the same thing as with no FAT drive.
However, when I booted with the "default" DISKCACHE=D,LW, I got an
increase in resident system memory from 3184 to 5568 Kb.  However
OS20MEMU said that memory allocated to disk cache remained at 512 Kb!  I
read this as the system having allocated almost 2400 Kb to the FAT cache
and its supporting driver, but OS20MEMU didn't want to tell me about it!
When I rebooted with DISKCACHE=2048,LW I got resident system memory of
5592 Kb (within the noise of the previous value), but OS20MEMU's report
of memory allocated to disk cache went up to 2560, somewhat verifying my
previous assumption as to where some of that 2400 Kb went to.

    After I had run the above experiments, I reformatted my working
drive HPFS.  Then, I realized that I hadn't covered one case: I didn't
have a floppy drive attached for any of the tests.  My ThinkPad has a
built-in CD-ROM drive, but the floppy is an external drive that must be
plugged in before rebooting, for the system to see it.  At home, the
ThinkPad sits in its port replicator, and is always attached to the
floppy drive, the Zip drive, an external display, keyboard and mouse,
and the printer.  But I am currently on the road, and the external
floppy drive is riding in my carry case.  So I attached it, rebooted,
and ran OS20MEMU with and without the DISKCACHE= line REMmed out of
CONFIG.SYS.  No change in resident memory size nor memory allocated to
disk cache.

    Thus, my tentative conclusions are:  OS/2 (at least at Warp 4 +
FixPak 5) is a lot smarter than I thought it is.  With "D" calling for
the default memory to be allocated to diskcache, the line is ignored if
there aren't any FAT partitions on the hard drive.  When there is one
FAT partition, the system supplies only 2 MB of diskcache, rather than
the 4 MB that the "help" file says my 40 MB of "system memory" should
have generated!  (I don't know if the 4 MB maximum is an on-line
documentation error, or would have been allocated if more than one FAT
partition were on my hard drive.)  If the DISKCACHE= line is REMmed out,
the system doesn't assign any memory to the diskcache, irrespective of
whether or not there are any FAT partitions on the hard drive(s).  I
reiterate that I am using Warp 4 plus FixPak 5; my results may not apply
to other levels of OS/2; YMMV.

    My attitude toward on-line documentation is unchanged:  Too much
information is omitted for it to be useful for much of anything, and
what information is present should be verified by test before drawing
any conclusions from it.  (Note:  My experience to date indicates that
this sad state of on-line documentation is not limited to that furnished
by IBM; I have on-line documentation that came with commercial products
produced by non-IBM sources that are even worse.  One virtue of IBM
desktop software products is that hard-copy documentation can usually be
obtained if one is willing to pay for it.)

    Regards,

        --Murray
<Team PL/I>

___
 * MR/2 2.25 #120 * Curiouser and curiouser.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jack Stein                                        16-Sep-99 18:36:28
  To: Steve Mccrystal                                   19-Sep-99 10:46:10
Subj: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n ?

Steve Mccrystal wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 SM>> This whole thing sorta reminds me of the switch from BPS to
 SM>> Symbols.  The entire world could do without it!

 JS> I dunno what BPS is, but I think I can safely agree with you:-)

 SM> Bits Per Second, the (once) proper terminology that replaced
 SM> BAUD (or should have) when protocols were developed by which
 SM> the bit rate exceeded the baudrate.

Smacking forehead, OH, THAT BPS:-)  Now I see, yeah, good analagy I reckon.
It must have been the Symbols that threw me off.  Characters per second vs
baud, is that what you mean?

 SM> For the purists, I realize that this is not completely
 SM> correct, but it makes the point, I think.

 SM> When we had BPS, many modem manufacturers, and almost all
 SM> modem resellers, were the ones confused, intentionally IMHO,
 SM> due to either laziness or ignorance.

Modem manufacturers have done a bang up job of confusing most everyone.  Even
hard core computer folks turn belly up when reading a modem manual...

                                              Jack
--- timEd/2-B11
 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa [phone] (1:129/171)
140/1

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Bushong                                   18-Sep-99 03:53:00
  To: Mark Ellis                                        19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: Objects

::> HB> Go with a scheme,  then you can set those colors as well to what you w

::> I've pretty much got it down now after a bit of practicing. Though I find
::> pretty hard to get "all" the thing to look right in all the right places.
::> Black text on a black background can be a bit hard on the eyes sometimes :

Hehehehe, I hear ya. I've had that happen frequently, especially on the color
of the text for minimized programs...

┌■ Herbert Bushong    [e-mail]         [TEAM OS/2]
├■ Blackbeard's BBS   [e-mail]               Intelec: 239:600/0
└■ Fido: 1:19/19      http://www.intelec.com/software/


---
 ■ RM 1.31 2508 ■ Keep your hands on the keyboard...
 * Origin: Blackbeard's BBS - Ville Platte, LA - 318-468-3385 (1:19/19)
600
1500

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Paul Hildebrandt                                  18-Sep-99 22:16:25
  To: Holger Granholm                                   19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: BGFAX reg

Hello Holger!

16 Sep 99 19:50, Holger Granholm wrote to Paul Hildebrandt:
 HG> If you find out, please let us know the result.

I decided not to bother untill I had more money. If you want to contact him by
internet here's the info:

E-mail: [e-mail]
http://www.blkbox.com/~bgfax/

Paul

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G1219+
 * Origin: The Paintballers' BBS ----* (1:153/870)
3613/666

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 08:00:14
  To: Alan Hess                                         19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Alan Hess wrote in a message to all:

 AH> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can
 AH> the files in the two be combined somehow?  *adh*

Those things are doing stuff at two different levels.  The former handles
low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking to,  which protocols are
assigned to what,  etc. wile the other handles things at a somewhat higher
level of abstraction.

Why would you want to do that,  anyway?

---
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 07:54:01
  To: Murray Lesser                                     19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: Character sets

Murray Lesser wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

RT>If you were going to specify a collating sequence,  how would
RT>_you_ do it?

 ML>      More or less the same as the IBM 8-bit character set
 ML> EBCDIC (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) has
 ML> done it since the S/360 family in 1964.

I used to have a chart around somewhere that listed that set,  but haven't
seen it for ages...

 ML> All alpha characters are contiguous, with the special
 ML> characters having a grouping of their own, rather than being in
 ML> several groups scattered between portions of the alphabet.

Makes sense to me.

I'd add that a simple interchange of one adjacent pair of bits should give
lexical ordering,  too.

---
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 07:49:12
  To: paul marwick                                      19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: File Managers

paul marwick wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

 RJT> Actually I have both versions running here.  And yes,  even the OS/2
 RJT> version is a little rough when it comes to long filenames,  it
 RJT> doesn't display the whole name.  And it barfs on bigger than 2G
 RJT> partitions,  as well.

 pm> InspectA displays long filenames without too many problems. In
 pm> terms of the normal disply, it depends on how it is set up and
 pm> there is a limit to the number of characters that it will
 pm> display.

I haven't fiddled with display modes too much.

 pm> A trick for a long filename is to ivoke the FILES.BBS edit
 pm> function - place the cursor over the long filename and press
 pm> insert. Inspect will then prompt for a description to whatever
 pm> the filename is. I've not seen it run out of display characters
 pm> in that mode..

Yes,  that's one of my favorite features of the program.  And one of the
things I miss the most when I'm fiddling around under Linux (which doesn't
have the description stuff at all,  at least not with the tools I'm working
with).

---
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jack Stein                                        18-Sep-99 07:24:02
  To: Stewart Honsberger                                19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: OS/2 Sales

Stewart Honsberger wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 SH>>    IBM is quietly exceeding its own OS/2 sales expectations.

 JS> Not by much I hope, or they will be forced to take even more overt
 JS> actions to kill it, and insure earthlings remain with MS crap stuck
 JS> firmly up you know where....

 SH> Why are you being so harsh on them? What have they ever done
 SH> to you?

They deprived me of getting a trip guide with a CD in it with software that
runs under OS/2, rather than WIN95.  They made sure when one goes to Kmart,
Babbages, or work, that one will see nothing but WIN95 crap.

 SH> After their own anti-trust trial, they pulled back.

You mean that 1956 suit?

 SH> When they found out that people were more interested in MSs
 SH> "pretty" interface (without much structure behind it), and
 SH> the fact that they could make money hand over fist with only
 SH> half the work - they made the obvious choice. Why try to
 SH> change market perception, when you can ride the wave?

That does not explain why IBM pulled the plug on OS/2 just days before the
release of WIN95. Just when OS/2 was gaining tremendous momentum in the market
place.  Sales where just hitting 1 million copies per month, when IBM switched
tactics from non-support, to overtly telling folks OS/2 was NOT for them, that
they should NOT use OS/2.

 SH>>    While IBM always has maintained that it continues to
 SH>> actively support    its OS/2 operating system,

 JS> IBM is a pack of liars!

 SH> You're an uninformed pest.

I don't think so.  I don't need "informed", I watched it happen.

 SH> FixPack 11 for OS/2 Warp 4 - Dated July 1, 1999
 SH> Fixpack 41(?) for OS/2 Warp 3 released about the same time.
 SH> Latest beta Netscape Communicator for OS/2 Warp - Dated
 SH> August 9, 1999

You consider this support?  Give me a break.  I'm not talking about providing
some updates to OS/2, I'm talking about support in the market place.  You
know, things like advertising, making sure retail stores have copies of OS/2
to sell, cooperating with developers, things like that.

 JS> IBM NEVER supported OS/2, not for one day.

 SH> I hope you're taken to court for libel.

IBM would not stand a chance, unless they used theirmoney, power and influence
to stack the deck.

 JS> IBM's next move, if I read them correctly will be to attempt to
 JS> kill LINUX.

 SH> You know even less about Linux than you do about OS/2.

And you know that because..?

 SH> Linux can NOT be "killed" by any corporation. Not even IBM and
 SH> Microsoft combined. You can't kill a product that's source
 SH> code is available on millions of sites worldwide.

Linux has been freely available for many years now.  It's only recently begun
moving slowly forward with the likes of Slackware and RedHat providing the
package.  RedHat appears to be the one most likely to have any effect on the
market in general, and the cartel seems to be moving in on them. You can
choose to think thats to insure the can "ride the wave", I'm not so sure thats
their motivation.

 SH> Take your FUD elsewhere. I don't want the likes of you in an
 SH> echo for support of one of my chosen OSs.

What you like and what you get are not always the same thing. You should know
that by now...

                                              Jack
--- timEd/2-B11
 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa [phone] (1:129/171)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jack Stein                                        18-Sep-99 07:49:13
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: File Managers

Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 RJT> They may just try,  but I don't think they'll succeed.

 JS> I hope you're right, but, I have serious reservations.  The
 JS> power of MS, IBM, INTEL and ZIFF-DAVIS cannot easily be
 JS> under-rated.

 RJT> "The power" that those folks may hold,  such as it is,  is a
 RJT> matter of economics,  and of doing things within some fairly
 RJT> narrowly defined commercial channels -- the home and
 RJT> smaller-end business market for M$,  the medium and larger
 RJT> business market for IBM,  etc.  That's why OS/2 isn't being
 RJT> agressively marketed by IBM,  it crosses that boundary.  The
 RJT> whole philosophy behind Linux is outside that framework.

I can't agree with you here Roy. Both the home, and business (large and small)
is totally domonated by MS products.  You would be hard pressed to locate a
business that was not running MS OS's.

 JS> Who would ever guess that 25 years after the worlds greatest OS
 JS> was presented to the world,

 RJT> You talking about unix here?

Yes.

 JS> the world would be totally dominated by the likes of DOS/WIN,

 RJT> The world?  The home pc market,  maybe.  Businesses and
 RJT> academia do tend to run a lot of other stuff besides.

They are dominated by MS OS, and not by a little.

 JS> the worlds worst OS's for at least 15 years running?   It
 JS> boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 RJT> Not really.  There are a few factors that tend to account
 RJT> for some of this.

Sure, it is a rather complicated issue on the surface, but underneath, it gets
much simpler.

 RJT> For one,  unix was originally a very proprietary product,
 RJT> owned by Bell Labs, and licensed to a small number of vendors.

Yes, and very expensive, and made for big iron, there was no little iron at
that time.

 RJT> I don't know just when that changed,  but it did.  A variant
 RJT> written for smaller machines called Minix (also written as a
 RJT> teaching tool) came about,  and growing out of that is how
 RJT> Linux got started.

When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when the fun, and
market manipulation began.  IBM was in charge, and they chose MS to run the
software end of the business.  That has not changed, and the result of course
is the worlds worst OS dominating the home and business market.

 RJT> I think it's just starting to gain momentum.  And since I've
 RJT> started paying a bunch of attention to it the traffic in
 RJT> that echo has grown from moderately busy to about twice the
 RJT> volume of this one!

LINUX gets 3 times the traffic here.  This is good but, OS/2 conferences have
always recieved a LOT of traffic in FIDO, and that didn't help OS/2 survive in
the real world.  Almost no one in computing read any of this stuff.

 RJT> While,  sad to see,  the tone of OS/2 echos in general is
 RJT> starting to remind me of that of CP/M users after ms-dos had
 RJT> been around a year or two.  Not that I'm ready to dump it,
 RJT> but...

The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM likes it that
way.
Hard to promote a product when the company that sells it doesn't want anyone
to use it.
                                              Jack
--- timEd/2-B11
 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa [phone] (1:129/171)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jack Stein                                        18-Sep-99 08:05:29
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 14:26:22
Subj: File Managers

Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 JS> I have WIN95 installed and my wife and kids occasionally use it
 JS> for some stupid crap that doesn't run on anything but WIN.

 RJT> Same here.  <g>  Though I'm not even gonna consider
 RJT> upgrading the w95 machine here to 98,  much less that new
 RJT> version that's out there...

You will be forced to upgrade eventually, just like you were forced to install
WIN95 to begin with.  You and I, and most of us here would choose never to see
a WIN logo on any screen on earth, yet we all run it, either at home along
side OS/2, or at work.

 JS> For example, wife bought a travel guide book for our vacation
 JS> and it came with a CD that attempts to tell you the fastest,
 JS> shortest, most senic routes to places.  It only runs in WIN95 of
 JS> course.

 RJT> Typical.  Those folks will learn,  eventually.  If their
 RJT> software is of such limited appeal that they end up putting
 RJT> it in the back of a book (seems to be happening to a lot of
 RJT> people these days),  then they may be more approachable to
 RJT> supporting other formats,  or at least providing source or
 RJT> maybe an API to let others get to the data.

That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally dominates the
desktop.  That will not happen I'm afraid.  There was a good opportunity from
1991 to 1995, but IBM made certain it did NOT happen.

 RJT> Reminds me of the guy I used to work with -- 24 years old
 RJT> (I'm now twice that age) and he considered himself to be
 RJT> "the best technician in there" because he'd "immersed
 RJT> himself in w98 and now knew it inside and out",  though I
 RJT> did see him get stumped a couple of times and have
 RJT> absolutely no clue as to how to proceed from there.  This
 RJT> guy was the "sales manager" of this retail computer store,
 RJT> which is now closed up.

I'm sure he had no trouble finding another job.  WIN dominates totally.

 JS> I guess thats how it is everywhere today....

 RJT> I'm sure that it seems like "everywhere",  but it's not as
 RJT> bad as all that.  Only looks that way sometimes because they
 RJT> dominate the personal marketplace for the most part.

No Roy, they dominate the marketplace, not just the "personal" market place.

                                              Jack
--- timEd/2-B11
 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa [phone] (1:129/171)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Will Honea                                        19-Sep-99 12:59:00
  To: Murray Lesser                                     19-Sep-99 12:59:00
Subj: Cache

Murray Lesser wrote to Will Honea on 09-18-1999

ML>     My attitude toward on-line documentation is unchanged:  Too
ML> much information is omitted for it to be useful for much of
ML> anything, and what information is present should be verified by test
ML> before drawing any conclusions from it.  (Note:  My experience to
ML> date indicates that this sad state of on-line documentation is not
ML> limited to that furnished by IBM; I have on-line documentation that
ML> came with commercial products produced by non-IBM sources that are
ML> even worse.  One virtue of IBM desktop software products is that
ML> hard-copy documentation can usually be obtained if one is willing to
ML> pay for it.)

Even the hard-copy versions are shooting at a moving target these
days.  FP11 introduced some spindown functions in the IDE drivers that
caused a lot of grief until one of the Austin group posted the info
needed to 'fix' the fix - a new, totally undocumented (outside the
developers) feature.

I appreciate the info you weeded out.  It's great for memory
constrained systems although lately my solution has been to just throw
more memory at it.

Will Honea <[e-mail]>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Will Honea                                        19-Sep-99 13:02:01
  To: paul marwick                                      19-Sep-99 13:02:01
Subj: File Managers

paul marwick wrote to Roy J. Tellason on 09-17-1999

pm> Hi Roy
pm>
pm> Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Bat Lang:
pm>
pm>  RJT> On that subject,  is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files,
pm>  RJT> other than actually making the floppies?
pm>
pm> It depends on the format of the .dsk (IBM appears to have updated
pm> the  creation program at some stage). However, for a number of  them
pm> (certainly including all the current Fixpack images)  DIUNPACK can
pm> be used to dump the contents to the hard  drive. It can be found
pm> bundled with any version of  FASTKICK, and I'm fairly sure I've seen
pm> it on its own as  well...

At least one group, the LAN division, seems to be using a very old
creation program that bombs the LOADDSKF most of us have.  I prefer a
program called dskxtrct myself as it has a lot more error checking.
It's in the QF11 package (hobbes, etc) and works quite well.


Will Honea <[e-mail]>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Alan Hess                                         19-Sep-99 14:23:09
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 19:54:10
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Whilst masticating on <Sep 19 99>, Roy J. Tellason (1:270/615)
wrote to Alan Hess:
AH>> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can
AH>> the files in the two be combined somehow?  *adh*

RJT> Those things are doing stuff at two different levels.  The
RJT> former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking
RJT> to,  which protocols are assigned to what,  etc. wile the other
RJT> handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction.
RJT> Why would you want to do that,  anyway?

Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees, so I wondered if
they could be combined.

--- Msged/2 TE 05
 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Ben Ritchey                                       19-Sep-99 15:58:06
  To: Alan Hess                                         19-Sep-99 23:58:06
Subj: Re: NC 4.61

CHRS: IBMPC 2

* Whilst Alan Hess spake unto All ...

 AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has anyone
 AH> installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if it's possible

Works fine that way under Warp 3 FP40 ...

    Be well,

      Ben    aka CMech  http://Positron.org/cmech/

--- GoldED/386 3.00.Beta5+
 * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium (1:3803/7)
114/441

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Rob Basler                                        19-Sep-99 12:44:00
  To: Dan Egli                                          19-Sep-99 23:58:06
Subj: OS/2 and SoundBlaster AW

DE>Ok all. How do I get my SoundBlaster AWE64 configured w/ Warp 4?
DE>And if possible, I do NOT want the mmpm stuff installed. I
DE>never use it so its a waste of space. If absolutely
DE>necessary, I'll install it. But Prefferable solutions will
DE>give me access to the SB Card in programs w/o installing
DE>all the PM controlls, and the wav and AVI files.

First of all you have to obtain the beta Awe64 drivers for your card at
http://www.ionet.net/~colin/awe32.htm  These drivers *DO* work, I have
used them, but they can be tricky to install.

There's no way to avoid installing MMPM, but you can delete all the junk
you don't want afterwards.

Rob.
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X MS: Where do you want to go uhhh... some time next year?

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Rob Basler                                        19-Sep-99 13:06:01
  To: Russell Tiedt                                     19-Sep-99 23:58:06
Subj: StarOffice?

RT>A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I
RT>would like to install it but I seem unable to get a
RT>registration code from the "stardivision.com" web site for
RT>some reason.
RT>Does anyone have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at
it.

Try www.sun.com/staroffice/

Rob.
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Trust no one.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 16:52:17
  To: Jack Stein                                        19-Sep-99 23:58:06
Subj: File Managers

Jack Stein wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

 JS> Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 RJT> They may just try,  but I don't think they'll succeed.

 JS> I hope you're right, but, I have serious reservations.  The
 JS> power of MS, IBM, INTEL and ZIFF-DAVIS cannot easily be
 JS> under-rated.

 RJT> "The power" that those folks may hold,  such as it is,  is a
 RJT> matter of economics,  and of doing things within some fairly
 RJT> narrowly defined commercial channels -- the home and
 RJT> smaller-end business market for M$,  the medium and larger
 RJT> business market for IBM,  etc.  That's why OS/2 isn't being
 RJT> agressively marketed by IBM,  it crosses that boundary.  The
 RJT> whole philosophy behind Linux is outside that framework.

 JS> I can't agree with you here Roy.

<shrug>

It's not something I'm all that worried about here,  and I haven't really
reasearched this to get solid numbers.

 JS> Both the home, and business (large and small) is totally
 JS> domonated by MS products.  You would be hard pressed to locate
 JS> a business that was not running MS OS's.

Oh?  I suppose if you're counting number of copies sold there can't be any
doubt of that,  but I'm also thinking of dollars spent.  There's no way I'm
going to believe that either the big iron out there or the midrange stuff runs
any m$ software.

 JS> Who would ever guess that 25 years after the worlds greatest OS
 JS> was presented to the world,

 RJT> You talking about unix here?

 JS> Yes.

 JS> the world would be totally dominated by the likes of DOS/WIN,

 RJT> The world?  The home pc market,  maybe.  Businesses and
 RJT> academia do tend to run a lot of other stuff besides.

 JS> They are dominated by MS OS, and not by a little.

On what are you basing this?

 JS> the worlds worst OS's for at least 15 years running?   It
 JS> boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 RJT> Not really.  There are a few factors that tend to account
 RJT> for some of this.

 JS> Sure, it is a rather complicated issue on the surface, but
 JS> underneath, it gets much simpler.

 RJT> For one,  unix was originally a very proprietary product,
 RJT> owned by Bell Labs, and licensed to a small number of vendors.

 JS> Yes, and very expensive, and made for big iron, there was no
 JS> little iron at that time.

Big iron?  Seems to me it was written for what would later be classed as
"minis".

 RJT> I don't know just when that changed,  but it did.  A variant
 RJT> written for smaller machines called Minix (also written as a
 RJT> teaching tool) came about,  and growing out of that is how
 RJT> Linux got started.

 JS> When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when
 JS> the fun, and market manipulation began.

It's no coincidence that m$ started with not one but _two_ lawyers in the
initial group,  a fact that's endeared neither them nor lawyers in general to
me...

 JS> IBM was in charge, and they chose MS to run the software end of
 JS> the business.

I guess I have a somewhat different perspective on this stuff as I don't think
of that point in time as being when it all started.  I was into it a long time
before then,  and the entry of IBM into the market was something I didn't take
seriously for a while.  It _did_ have a bunch of far-reaching effects,  mostly
the standardization of the hardware and software bases on which things could
build,  and that more than anything else is why it started to snowball from
there.

 JS> That has not changed, and the result of course is the worlds
 JS> worst OS dominating the home and business market.

To a point...

 RJT> I think it's just starting to gain momentum.  And since I've
 RJT> started paying a bunch of attention to it the traffic in that
 RJT> echo has grown from moderately busy to about twice the volume
 RJT> of this one!

 JS> LINUX gets 3 times the traffic here.  This is good but, OS/2
 JS> conferences have always recieved a LOT of traffic in FIDO, and
 JS> that didn't help OS/2 survive in the real world.  Almost no one
 JS> in computing read any of this stuff.

Sure,  but that's only _one_ indication that I look at.

 RJT> While,  sad to see,  the tone of OS/2 echos in general is
 RJT> starting to remind me of that of CP/M users after ms-dos had
 RJT> been around a year or two.  Not that I'm ready to dump it,
 RJT> but...

 JS> The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM
 JS> likes it that way. Hard to promote a product when the company
 JS> that sells it doesn't want anyone to use it.

I do *not* understand where they're coming from with this attitude,  except
that they've been infamous for a long time for a careful orchestration of what
they do so that nothing is going to have an adverse impact on some other
corporate division.  The likelihood probably is that that they simply choose
to expend the minimum possible resources on maintaining the product,  and
don't market it more aggressively because they're making more money moving the
other stuff that's out there,  including their distribution of m$ product.

It's sad.  But there's no way that a bunch of users is going to change the
course of a behemoth like IBM,  so I don't figure on getting all upset about
it.  If what I _have_ is a usable product,  if it'll serve me well for what I
want to do here,  then fine,  I'll use it.  If not,  then I'll simply find
something else that will.

---
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 17:07:01
  To: Jack Stein                                        19-Sep-99 23:58:06
Subj: File Managers

Jack Stein wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

 JS> Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 JS> I have WIN95 installed and my wife and kids occasionally use it
 JS> for some stupid crap that doesn't run on anything but WIN.

 RJT> Same here.  <g>  Though I'm not even gonna consider upgrading
 RJT> the w95 machine here to 98,  much less that new version that's
 RJT> out there...

 JS> You will be forced to upgrade eventually, just like you were
 JS> forced to install WIN95 to begin with.

Nope!  For one thing I already *have* w98 here on cdrom,  and choose not to
install it on there.  For another I didn't choose to install w95 on that
machine,  it was on there when we got it.  Along with a whole bunch of baggage
pertaining to its former corporate owners (a corporation that effectively
doesn't exist any more as such) and lots of fun stuff like references to
network drives that it's not connected to,  etc.  I had a lot of fun ripping
that junk out of the registry,  and I'm not quite done yet.

 JS> You and I, and most of us here would choose never to see a WIN
 JS> logo on any screen on earth, yet we all run it, either at home
 JS> along side OS/2, or at work.

I _had_ a w98 box.  That drive has been pulled (more as a matter of saving me
some time just in case I want to fire it up for some reason) and that machine
is now running Linux.  What's currently here in terms of machines is this:

   cpu      ram   OS             Function

1 5x86/133  16M   dos-dv&OS/2    bbs (this box)
2 486dx2/66  8M   dos&win311     games
3 P200      64M   Linux          development, file server, 'net (eventually)
4 486dx2/66 40M   OS/2 only      bbs configuration,  possibly cdrom server
5 P66       16M   w95            games, recreation,  WP,  print server

That should give a pretty good indication of what my priorities are.

 JS> For example, wife bought a travel guide book for our vacation
 JS> and it came with a CD that attempts to tell you the fastest,
 JS> shortest, most senic routes to places.  It only runs in WIN95 of
 JS> course.

 RJT> Typical.  Those folks will learn,  eventually.  If their
 RJT> software is of such limited appeal that they end up putting it
 RJT> in the back of a book (seems to be happening to a lot of people
 RJT> these days),  then they may be more approachable to supporting
 RJT> other formats,  or at least providing source or maybe an API to
 RJT> let others get to the data.

 JS> That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally
 JS> dominates the desktop.  That will not happen I'm afraid.

It's already started.

 JS> There was a good opportunity from 1991 to 1995, but IBM made
 JS> certain it did NOT happen.

IBM decided that _they_ were not going to do that to the market place,  no
doubt because of the impact that such a decision would have had on other
things that IBM was doing.  IBM also has refrained from a lot of things with
the hardware,  too,  and look what happened -- they LOST their domination of
that part of the market early on.

 RJT> Reminds me of the guy I used to work with -- 24 years old (I'm
 RJT> now twice that age) and he considered himself to be "the best
 RJT> technician in there" because he'd "immersed himself in w98 and
 RJT> now knew it inside and out",  though I did see him get stumped
 RJT> a couple of times and have absolutely no clue as to how to
 RJT> proceed from there.  This guy was the "sales manager" of this
 RJT> retail computer store, which is now closed up.

 JS> I'm sure he had no trouble finding another job.  WIN dominates
 JS> totally.

Before that job he worked at a car dealer in the area.  <g>

 JS> I guess thats how it is everywhere today....

 RJT> I'm sure that it seems like "everywhere",  but it's not as bad
 RJT> as all that.  Only looks that way sometimes because they
 RJT> dominate the personal marketplace for the most part.

 JS> No Roy, they dominate the marketplace, not just the "personal"
 JS> market place.

<shrug>

They're not that important _here_.  And apparently in a number of other places
as well.  I was rather pleased,  a while back,  when I was watching the news
and heard an item to the effect that,  in spite of much "courting" on the part
of m$,  the government department in Mexico that had the final say as to what
was going into all of the schools in that country had decided on something
else,  instead.  (I guess they were upset about the bribes paid?  :-)  I
didn't know what it was at the time,  but "gnome" is a window manager that
runs with X,  the base OS being Linux!  Old billyboy had a most unhappy
expression on his face that day.

Without a serious study of the numbers,  and a lot of that coming from places
outside of this country,  I'm just not going to accept that point above as
fact.

---
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: MIKE RUSKAI                                       18-Sep-99 18:06:00
  To: ALAN HESS                                         20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Some senseless babbling from Alan Hess to All
on 09-16-99  21:39 about \tcpip and \mptn...

 AH> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can the files
 AH> in the two be combined somehow?  *adh*

They could probably be combined, but why go through the trouble?

Mike Ruskai
[e-mail]


... Cannibals don't eat lawyers. Professional courtesy.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2
 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE!  WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140)
114/441

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Louis Aubree                                      15-Sep-99 17:18:00
  To: Jack Stein                                        20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n ?

You jumped in Jonathan De Boyne Pollard reply to me :

JS>  LA> Does "KiB" mean 1024 bytes?
JS>
JS>  JDBP> Yes.

Then JBBP explained these (new) equivalences :
1024   --> kilobinary --> kibi --> Ki
1024^2 --> megabinary --> mebi --> Me
1024^3 --> gigabinary --> gibi --> Gi
1024^4 --> terabinary --> tebi --> Te

JS> I like k,m and g for the small ones, K,M, and G for the big ones...
JS>
JS> Whats so tough about that?

You could use uppercase 'K' (the prefix for kilo is 'k'), but not more.

The prefixes for mega (10^6), giga, tera are uppercase 'M', 'G' and
'T', _not_ lowercase 'm', 'g', 't'. More than that, lowercase 'm' is
the prefix for milli (a thousandth part).

So this idea was just good with 'k' and 'K', but is quite over now
for sizes of memory, files, hard disks...

     Louis
...
 * ATP/OS2 1.42 *  Bonjour de Nantes, Bretagne.


--- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93
 * Origin: Island's BBS * Nantes et sa region * (+33) 0251.397.478 (2:326/2)
280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Louis Aubree                                      15-Sep-99 21:15:00
  To: James Mckenzie                                    20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: Netscape Communicator

Tobias Ernst replied to you :

JM>> AS A WORD OF NOTE:  IBM IS REQUIRED TO ENFORCE THE FRENCH LAW
JM>> WHICH REQUIRES YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE "INTERNATIONAL:FRANCE" VERSION.

TE>
TE> What's behind that law? Why should a person from France be
TE> prohibited from downloading an international English or German
TE> or whatever version if he likes that language better?
TE>
TE> Or does the French version have even less crypotgraphy then
TE> the 40 bits for the rest of the world?

No, the French law doesn't rule the rest of the world. Even if some
highbrows there believe the Earth is flat with Paris right in the
middle... :-))

No, the French law doesn't prohibit to download any cryptography
program from abroad. It used to prohibit to USE any crypting... Then,
in 1997, 40 bits keys were allowed. Now, the new rule is that 128
bits keys will be allowed. (Thanks to "Echelon"...).

But of course, we can't download (nor buy...) any U.S. product
including crypting with keys longer than 40 bits, not because of
French law, but because of U.S. law prohibiting such exports. Every
other country in the world (well, almost?) suffers the same U.S. law,
so Europe has its own companies specialized in crypting products.

     L.A.
...
 * ATP/OS2 1.42 *  Bonjour de Nantes, Bretagne.


--- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93
 * Origin: Island's BBS * Nantes et sa region * (+33) 0251.397.478 (2:326/2)
280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Alan Hess                                         19-Sep-99 20:51:20
  To: Ben Ritchey                                       20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: Re: NC 4.61

Whilst masticating on <Sep 19 99>, Ben Ritchey (1:3803/7)
wrote to Alan Hess:

AH>> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has
AH>> anyone installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if it's
AH>> possible

BR> Works fine that way under Warp 3 FP40 ...

What do you think of 4.61?

--- Msged/2 TE 05
 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Adam Cameron                                      19-Sep-99 21:15:11
  To: David Noon                                        20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: Re: win-os2 and AIM

 .x%X[Quoting David Noon from a message to Adam Cameron]X%x.

 AC> Warp 4 with FP9. Anything I can change to fix this?

 DN> When it crashes, press Alt+Esc [no, not Ctl+Esc] to get back to the
 DN> WPS.

 AC> The crash causes the entire computer to lock up, mouse
 AC> locks up, display locks up, everything.

 DN> Are you running it in a full-screen or seamless WIN-OS/2 session?

The program locks up both in a full-screen and seamless session, that doesnt
effect it.

+(cheba:[e-mail]:icq4201056)+

---
 * Origin: +(absoluteZERO::telnet://cheba.darktech.org)+ (1:116/71)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Andy Roberts                                      19-Sep-99 06:09:14
  To: Russell Tiedt                                     20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: StarOffice?

 Russell Tiedt,

17-Sep-99 18:09:51, Russell Tiedt wrote to All
          Subject: StarOffice?

 RT> A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I would
 RT> like to install it but I seem unable to get a registration code
 RT> from the "stardivision.com" web site for some reason Does anyone
 RT> have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it.

$9.95 plus S&H will get you a new CD with v.5.1a that does not need a
registration code and has more filters.  For details see:
http://www.sun.com/staroffice

     Thanks and Good Luck,        Andy Roberts
                                  [e-mail]
--- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at
 * Origin: Warp 4 engage.....----------=============>>>>>>>>>>> (1:109/921.1)
3613/666

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Leonard Erickson                                  19-Sep-99 00:39:00
  To: George White                                      20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: Character sets

 -=> Quoting George White to Leonard Erickson <=-

 GW> Hi Leonard,

 GW> You wrote to me about my message to Murray Lesser:

 LE> -=> Quoting George White to Murray Lesser <=-

 LE> ML>    Nowadays, the Average Idiot Home User hasn't heard of any
character
 LE> ML>code other than ASCII, if even that :-(.  As you well know, the stupid
 LE> ML>collating sequence of ASCII is due to the great desire of AT&T to pack
 LE> ML>everything they thought anybody would ever want into seven bits, while
 LE> ML>letting the presence of a single bit differentiate between lower- and
 LE> ML>upper-case alpha characters (a desirable characteristic only for fully
 LE> ML>mechanical terminals).

 LE>ASCII *was* defined in 1963 (or was it 68?) you know. It was originally
 LE>intended as a standard for moving data between different brands of
 LE>mainframes (which all had their *own* character sets back then)

 GW> I hope Murray sees this, I wasn't interested in this aspect of the
 GW> message. As you have raised it with me, according to a reference I
 GW> have here (C Programmers Guide to Serial Communications by Joe
 GW> Campbell), the official title of the ASCII specification is "ANSI
 GW> Standard X3.4-1977 (Revised 1983), Code for Information Interchange",
 GW> so from this I believe it's more recent than the dates you remember.

Not necessarily. "X3.4-1977" means "the 1977 version of standard X.34".

I'm pretty sure I've got pre-1977 references to ASCII, but those books
are in storage.

 LE> ML>standpoint) has never been a requirement for standards committees!  (I
 LE> ML>have a great dislike, based on many years of past participation, of
most
 LE> ML>computer-related standardizing activities.  The standards committee
 LE> ML>members seem to be more interested in showing how smart they are than
in
 LE> ML>following Euripides' "legacy" law of computer architecture:  "The gods
 LE> ML>visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.")

 LE> GW> I think of the ANSI screen control sequences as a classic example of
 LE> GW> that "cleverness", even though they are really DEC terminal control
 LE> GW> sequences.

 LE>They are derived from DEC control sequences for the VT-52. The ESC was
 LE>turned into ESC[ so that DEC wouldn't have an unfair advantage in the
 LE>market. The VT-100 came *after* the X3.64 standard was defined.

 GW> That counts in my book as "really". just changing "ESC" to "ESC[" does
 GW> nothing to change the basis of the control sequences. How a change as
 GW> simple to incorporate as that can be considered as removing an "unfair
 GW> advantage" when Joe Campbell's (Op Cit) description of writing the
 GW> code to interpret it (an input driver) is "a Herculean labor" (it's an
 GW> American book and I'm retaining the American spelling used therein).

Remember, back then you had to use discrete logic to decode the
sequences. So even a change that minor did make things a bit tougher.

But the point was that by making the change, they made it impossible
for any product *currently on the market* to claim to be "ANSI
compatible. *Everyone* had to produce new models.


--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: Shadowshack (1:105/51)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   19-Sep-99 22:48:28
  To: Alan Hess                                         20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Alan Hess wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

 AH> Whilst masticating on <Sep 19 99>, Roy J. Tellason
 AH> (1:270/615) wrote to Alan Hess:

AH>> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can
AH>> the files in the two be combined somehow?  *adh*

RJT> Those things are doing stuff at two different levels.  The
RJT> former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking
RJT> to,  which protocols are assigned to what,  etc. wile the other
RJT> handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction.
RJT> Why would you want to do that,  anyway?

 AH> Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees,
 AH> so I wondered if they could be combined.

Well,  whenever I wonder whether I really need some particular file or not,  I
try renaming it.  Usually to something.sav,  and see if anything breaks.  If
so,  it's a simple matter to put it back the way it was...

---
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)
278/111
2433/225

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Gord Hannah                                       19-Sep-99 19:01:15
  To: Jack Stein                                        20-Sep-99 07:46:04
Subj: OS/2 Sales

Replying to a message from Jack Stein 1:129/171 to Stewart Honsberger,

About OS/2 Sales, On Sat Sep 18 1999

 SH>>    IBM is quietly exceeding its own OS/2 sales expectations.

___________ Snip! ____________O/___________________________________
                              O\

 SH> Why are you being so harsh on them? What have they ever done
 SH> to you?

Consider this Jack, and I agree with you on this call, I go to a computer
store, IBM to be exact, place is of no importance, I see absolutely no and I
mean NO OS/2 versions, Lotus SmartSuite/2, or any type of software that will
run under OS/2, that was bad enough, then I ask a sales person, what would I
be looking at for price to have the best OS/2 machine put together with all
the bells and whistles, guess what he looked at me as if I was an escapee from
the mental asylum, said can't be done, we have not put one of those together
for years, and we wont as sales don't warrant us considering it, turned out he
was sales manager.  I said to him, this is one place I thought I might get
support and information on Warp any version, software and hardware concerns,
boy was I wrong.

Looks like the IBM sales people are getting paid by M$ not IBM.  A pity.  Just
too bad for me.

JS> They deprived me of getting a trip guide with a CD in it with
JS> software that runs under OS/2, rather than WIN95.  They made sure
JS> when one goes to Kmart, Babbages, or work, that one will see nothing
JS> but WIN95 crap.


Try any software Jack, it is getting to the point where one needs to be a
programmer to be running OS/2. :-(

 SH> change market perception, when you can ride the wave?

JS> That does not explain why IBM pulled the plug on OS/2 just days
JS> before the release of WIN95. Just when OS/2 was gaining tremendous
JS> momentum in the market place.  Sales where just hitting 1 million
JS> copies per month, when IBM switched tactics from non-support, to
JS> overtly telling folks OS/2 was NOT for them, that they should NOT
JS> use OS/2.

Lousy poor marketing strategy IMO.  (That is not what I ma thinking it is
unacceptable what went through my mind to put in this reply.)

 JS> IBM is a pack of liars!

  SH> You're an uninformed pest.

I guess we all are Jack, very uninformed.  Bull.

JS> I don't think so.  I don't need "informed", I watched it happen.

The proof is in the pudding, and I don't see any pudding do you?

 SH> Take your FUD elsewhere. I don't want the likes of you in an
 SH> echo for support of one of my chosen OSs.

Stewart, I have received more support in this echo and amongst a few other
people that I have picked on, than I ever got for DOS or any other program I
am running except Terminate, and TimEd.  And in spite of what you may think
some has come from Jack and some from you.  So we do need Jack here.

JS> What you like and what you get are not always the same thing. You
JS> should know that by now...

True so very true.

Hope this helps.  Keep us posted.

We are a fine board trying to make it better.
http://www.pris.bc.ca/ghannah
[e-mail]
Gord
--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Muskeg BBS (c) [Dawson Creek BC Canada] 1-250-786-7921 (1:17/23.1)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Murray Lesser                                     19-Sep-99 20:49:00
  To: Jack Stein                                        19-Sep-99 20:49:00
Subj: OS/2 Support

(Excerpts from a message dated 09-18-99, Jack Stein to Roy J. Tellason.
  Original topic "File Managers"):

Hi Jack--

 RJT> "The power" that those folks may hold,  such as it is,  is a
 RJT> matter of economics,  and of doing things within some fairly
 RJT> narrowly defined commercial channels -- the home and
 RJT> smaller-end business market for M$,  the medium and larger
 RJT> business market for IBM,  etc.  That's why OS/2 isn't being
 RJT> agressively marketed by IBM,  it crosses that boundary.  The
 RJT> whole philosophy behind Linux is outside that framework.

JS>I can't agree with you here Roy. Both the home, and
  >business (large and small) is totally domonated by MS
  >products.  You would be hard pressed to locate a business that was
  >not running MS OS's.

    Check on what OS your bank ATM is running under.  Most of them still
use OS/2 (some of them OS/2 1.3!).  Banks that have changed to WinNT
have tended to regret it.

JS>When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when the
  >fun, and market manipulation began.  IBM was in charge, and they
  >chose MS to run the software end of the business.  That has not
  >changed, and the result of course is the worlds worst OS dominating
  >the home and business market.

    IBM did not "choose" MS.  IBM offered three operating systems with
the original PC.  There was MS DOS, based on a purchased 16-bit
operating system cloned from DR CP/M; DR's CPM/86; and a useless OS that
could only run Pascal (UCSD).  All were at extra cost; no software came
with the original PC's.  Bill Gates was smart enough to price MS DOS at
$50, presumably since he was sure that sales would be very large.  The
powers that be at DR wanted $200 for theirs and UCSD's system was
useless for anyone who wanted to do anything but write their own
programs in Pascal!  It is not hard to figure out which operating system
won that battle :-).  I have no love for Microsoft's business practices
(the only MS software I have on my system is BASIC PDS v 7.1, vintage
1991, that will produce 16-bit "native OS/2" programs), but Gates was
the smartest software artist (as far as seeing where PC's were going) at
the time.  I give him credit for that, even if you don't.

JS>The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM likes
  >it that way.  Hard to promote a product when the company that sells
  >it doesn't want anyone to use it.

    IBM gave up on trying to sell OS/2 to the AIHU years ago, as OS/2
became too complex for the couch-potato mentality to handle.  It is now
a purely commercial system as far as IBM is concerned, and IBM will
continue to support it (not _market_ it aggressively) as long as an
appreciable number of IBM's major customers continue to use it.

    I don't do, and never have done, Windows!  Personally, I am very
pleased that none of my relatives nor friends run OS/2.  I joyfully tell
them that I can't help them when they run into Windows trouble :-).

    I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home systems, even
if it is never updated!  If new applications I may decide that I need
are not generally available for OS/2, I will write my own.  It isn't any
problem for me to avoid using hardware that is not supported by OS/2
since I learned long ago never to be the first kid on the block with the
latest computer gadgets or software.  I may never update my present
hardware unless it dies :-).  If I last long enough, I may well be the
last noncommercial OS/2 user around!  (Will Honea may outlast me!)

    To find out what IBM is doing with OS/2, you should subscribe to the
IBM e-mail marketing newsletter "WARP FM" rather than continuing to rant
about what IBM is not doing for you.  IBM is running a business, not a
religion.  There is no reason for IBM not to support WinNT if that is
where money is to be made.  But the big difference between IBM and MS
(which the commercial MS users will eventually learn to their
discomfort) is that IBM supports its legacy customers.

    Regards,

        --Murray
<Team PL/I)
___
 * MR/2 2.25 #120 * If it ain't broke, don't FixPak it.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Charles Gaefke                                    19-Sep-99 19:54:17
  To: Jack Stein                                        20-Sep-99 10:22:14
Subj: Re: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n ?

JS> Modem manufacturers have done a bang up job of confusing most everyone.
Ev
JS> hard core computer folks turn belly up when reading a modem manual...

    Nowadays it is hard to obtain a modem with a manual.  I've got manuals for
both my Courier's and for my Sportster.  I rarely reference them, but when I
do, they usually tell me exactly what I need.

    Really, though, I think the extinction of modems is in the near future.
They just can't meet up with the demands of today's high bandwidth
requirements.  Of course, if they'd ban advertisements, I bet we wouldn't need
half of what we're currently using.


C. Gaefke
[e-mail]



... Follow your dreams!

--- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1
 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230)
114/441

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Charles Gaefke                                    19-Sep-99 19:56:23
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   20-Sep-99 10:22:14
Subj: tcpip and \mptn

RJ> Why would you want to do that,  anyway?

    I'd think it has to do with a misconception that consolidated directories
take up less space.

    The average person still doesn't comprehend that just because your hard
drive is loaded with stuff doesn't mean it's slowing your system down.



C. Gaefke
[e-mail]



... I love my job!  Do you?

--- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1
 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230)
114/441

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Charles Gaefke                                    19-Sep-99 20:00:01
  To: Jack Stein                                        20-Sep-99 10:22:14
Subj: Re: File Managers

JS> They are dominated by MS OS, and not by a little.

    What's scary is -everywhere- you look, you are starting to see Microsoft.

    Money speaks.  And wherever MS isn't, it will be soon because MS bought
it, or bought into it.


C. Gaefke
[e-mail]



... Are you following your dreams?

--- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1
 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230)
114/441

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Charles Gaefke                                    19-Sep-99 20:01:02
  To: Jack Stein                                        20-Sep-99 10:22:14
Subj: Re: File Managers

JS> That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally dominates the
JS> desktop.  That will not happen I'm afraid.  There was a good opportunity
fr
JS> 1991 to 1995, but IBM made certain it did NOT happen.

    I think Windows has rode the wave.. and from here it's going to go
downhill.

    I don't think OS/2 is going to do it, but it'll help.


C. Gaefke
[e-mail]



... Have your dreams come true?

--- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1
 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230)
114/441

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Cyrill Vakhneyev                                  20-Sep-99 10:31:19
  To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         20-Sep-99 13:24:17
Subj: DIGCLOCK/ANACLOCK

Hello Jonathan!

16 Sep 99 17:35, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote to Cyrill Vakhneyev:
 CV>> JFYI: Your clocks, both digital and analog, shows me time in
 CV>> China I think :) TZ is set correctly.
 JP> Setting TZ is not all that you have to do.

 8< === Begin OS/2 Clipboard === >8
SET TZ=MSK-3MSD,3,-1,0,7200,10,-1,0,10800,3600
 8< === End OS/2 Clipboard === >8

    And RTC in local time. This was enough for 4 last years.

Bye!
Cyrill                                [Team OS/2 CV004]

... I smashed a Window and saw... OS/2.
---
 * Origin: I feel like Popeye!  (2:5053/7.1)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Cyrill Vakhneyev                                  20-Sep-99 11:22:26
  To: Alan Hess                                         20-Sep-99 13:24:17
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Hello Alan!

16 Sep 99 20:39, Alan Hess wrote to all:
 AH> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can the files
 AH> in the two be combined somehow?  *adh*
    Yes. You may join both catalogs. Remeber! Set correct paths in config.sys
and in sime variables.

Bye!
Cyrill                                [Team OS/2 CV004]

... Windows NT: Vapourware of the desperate and scared.
---
 * Origin: I feel like Popeye!  (2:5053/7.1)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Cyrill Vakhneyev                                  20-Sep-99 11:25:29
  To: Alan Hess                                         20-Sep-99 13:24:17
Subj: NC 4.61

Hello Alan!

18 Sep 99 22:26, Alan Hess wrote to all:
 AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has anyone
 AH> installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if it's possible
 AH> and works that way.
    Yes.

Bye!
Cyrill                                [Team OS/2 CV004]

... OS/2: Bill Gates' worst nightmare!
---
 * Origin: I feel like Popeye!  (2:5053/7.1)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Eddy Thilleman                                    17-Sep-99 09:35:16
  To: Paul Marwick                                      20-Sep-99 15:34:27
Subj: Editor

Hello Paul,

10 Sep 99 09:41, paul marwick wrote to Roy J. Tellason:

pm> fed025s.zip  (190771 15-06-99)

pm> For a small, freeware editor, this one is pretty good. Includes
pm> multiple file editing, syntax highlighting, programable keyboard. And
pm> its text mode and small enough to install on a boot floppy (:-)

I would like this editor. I have searched for it with search engines on
internet, but couldn't find it. Can you send it to my email address
[e-mail]? Thanks in advance.

  Greetings   -=Eddy=-        email: [e-mail]

... If you can't fix it, sell it as a feature.
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Windows98 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7)
280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Eddy Thilleman                                    18-Sep-99 12:58:10
  To: Holger Granholm                                   20-Sep-99 15:34:27
Subj: Objects

Hello Holger,

15 Sep 99 19:26, MIKE RUSKAI wrote to HOLGER GRANHOLM:

MR> The most likely reason I can see for that is that your motherboard
MR> will only cache 16MB worth of RAM.  OS/2 used memory from the top
MR> down, so putting 32MB in would make OS/2 use 16MB worth of uncached
MR> RAM first.

I had forgotten this, this is also a cause for this problem.

I'm sorry.

  Greetings   -=Eddy=-        email: [e-mail]

... "Sorry, I don't do Windows."
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Windows95 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7)
280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Frits Spieker                                     19-Sep-99 07:31:00
  To: All                                               20-Sep-99 15:34:27
Subj: It's over. Period.

 Hello All!

Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2 client. IBM has
decided that it is not in their customers interest to release (or have
released) another OS/2 client.

It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to use in the
near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed to do (and good at
that too!), it is falling further behind by the day. Trying to install Warp4
on a modern day system is a pain in the proverbial donkey and it is getting
harder and harder to find new hardware that is supported.

Don't get me wrong: I *love* OS/2 and use it every day. But now IBM has
finally made it official that there will never again be a new OS/2 client,
there is absolutely to reason anymore for vendors to keep supporting it and
the "falling behind" rate will increase dramaticly.


Take a look at the following:

***********************

In 1998, Stardock took the position that if IBM had no current or projected
plans for a new fat OS/2 client, that it was in the interests of OS/2 users
and the computing community in general that a third-party should work with
IBM to license OS/2 technology on an OEM basis and make a new client
available.

To that end, late last year, Stardock prepared a business plan and opened
negotiations with IBM. The wheels of bureacracy grind slowly, but eventually
it was up to "IBM" (executive level) to make the ultimate call on
proceeding.

For the past 6 months, Stardock and IBM have been working closely together
in hammering out the details of an OS/2 client.  Everything from potential
names down to which minute components would or would not be included.  These
meetings included multiple in-person meetings with IBM staff and executives
here at Stardock's office complex in Livonia Michigan.

With an agreement in principle in place, the last major hurdle was this week
in which the IBMers in favor of our proposal (mostly in Austin) presented
their case to IBM as a whole.

The call has been made -- there will be no new client from Stardock and IBM
has indicated that they have no plans for an OS/2-based client of their own.

Though IBM indicated Stardock had the strongest proposal, they have decided
that it is currently not in IBM's or their customer's interests to license
any current OS/2 technology on an OEM-basis.

There was never any discord between IBM and Stardock over financials,
technical viability, target market, or the like.  IBM has simply finally
made the decision that a new OS/2 client would be in conflict with their
strategic directions.

Stardock would like to extend a special thanks to all the IBMers (and in
particular Ken Christopher and Timothy Sipples) who went above and beyond
the call in working with us and going to bat inside IBM.  Remember when you
meet folks like them, who are and have been intimately involved with OS/2,
that their hands may be just as tied as yours when the IBM Corporation as a
whole sets policy.

Everything that could be done was done.

Brad

****************************

... Yes, God has a sense of humor! I'm here, ain't I?

Zo! En nu eerst een melk!
// Frits //

--- GoldEd/2|IM|FMail/2|O/T
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   20-Sep-99 11:27:18
  To: Will Honea                                        20-Sep-99 15:34:27
Subj: File Managers

Will Honea wrote in a message to paul marwick:

 WH> paul marwick wrote to Roy J. Tellason on 09-17-1999

pm> Hi Roy
pm>
pm> Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Bat Lang:
pm>
pm>  RJT> On that subject,  is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files,
pm>  RJT> other than actually making the floppies?
pm>
pm> It depends on the format of the .dsk (IBM appears to have updated
pm> the  creation program at some stage). However, for a number of  them
pm> (certainly including all the current Fixpack images)  DIUNPACK can
pm> be used to dump the contents to the hard  drive. It can be found
pm> bundled with any version of  FASTKICK, and I'm fairly sure I've seen
pm> it on its own as  well...

 WH> At least one group, the LAN division, seems to be using a
 WH> very old creation program that bombs the LOADDSKF most of us
 WH> have.  I prefer a program called dskxtrct myself as it has a
 WH> lot more error checking.  It's in the QF11 package (hobbes,
 WH> etc) and works quite well.

Hm,  would this be it by any chance?

DSKXTR12.ZIP  142496 07-06-98  [    ] The DSKXTRCT and DSKCOMPR programs work
                               with DSK diskette image files associated with
                               the IBM programs, SAVEDSKF and LOADDSKF.

Looks like I had it here all along...!    :-)

---
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From: James Williams                                    20-Sep-99 02:57:00
  To: Will Honea                                        20-Sep-99 15:34:27
Subj: Re: Cache

 WH> Even the hard-copy versions are shooting at a moving target these
 WH> days.  FP11 introduced some spindown functions in the IDE drivers that
 WH> caused a lot of grief until one of the Austin group posted the info
 WH> needed to 'fix' the fix - a new, totally undocumented (outside the
 WH> developers) feature.

 Where is this fix, how can I get it. I am experiencing spindown problem
 every time I reboot.

 thx, James


... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
___ MultiMail/OS/2 v0.29

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Roy J. Tellason                                   20-Sep-99 12:18:03
  To: Charles Gaefke                                    20-Sep-99 17:59:16
Subj: tcpip and \mptn

Charles Gaefke wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

RJ> Why would you want to do that,  anyway?

 CG>     I'd think it has to do with a misconception that
 CG> consolidated directories take up less space.

Don't they?

 CG>     The average person still doesn't comprehend that just
 CG> because your hard drive is loaded with stuff doesn't mean it's
 CG> slowing your system down.

"Loaded with stuff" is a good way to put it.  It was one thing when running
dos,  but anything more recent seems to think nothing of tossing literally
thousands of files all over the place...

The ones that get me in the OS/2 setup are where there's two or three
directories in depth,  and only one file (if that!) at the bottom of the whole
thing.  I can't see why this is necessary or desirable.

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From: Darren Hamilton                                   20-Sep-99 14:31:00
  To: Coridon Henshaw                                   20-Sep-99 17:59:16
Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc

On 09-15-1999, Coridon Henshaw wrote to Darren Hamilton about Os2clu02
& Utc.

CH> The only ways to make OS2CLU's time-related commands get along
CH> with every  other piece of time-related OS/2 software ever written
CH> is  to either SET TZ=AAA1 (during DST), or launch OS2CLU's time
CH> programs with the /U option.

Hello Coridon;

What is AAA1?

Thanks for the information.

Regards,

Darren


Internet e-mail: [e-mail]

 * KWQ/2 1.2i * AMD Athlon: Proof that Intel isn't working hard enough.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Darren Hamilton                                   20-Sep-99 14:45:01
  To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollar                          20-Sep-99 17:59:16
Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc

On 09-16-1999, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote to Darren Hamilton
about Os2clu02 & Utc.

JP>  DH> I find it hard to believe that *every* programmer is querying the RTC
JP>  DH> rather than using the DosQuerySysInfo API function.
JP>
JP> You may find it hard to believe, but it's nevertheless largely
JP> true.  They  use DosGetDateTime(), which is a function that reads
JP> the  "raw" hardware clock, rather than DosQuerySysInfo() which  reads
JP> the 64-bit clock provided by the OS/2 kernel.  This  is a "DOS
JP> think" legacy.  Application and compiler library  developers used to
JP> read the RTC hardware pretty much  directly in DOS, and the habit
JP> carried over into OS/2  application and compiler library
JP> development.

Too bad. This "DOS-think" probably undermines many aspects of a
mutitasking OS.  :-(

<edited>

JP> ( I did suggest at the beginning of this year that some
JP> enterprising EMX C++ hacker patch the EMX runtime library
JP> so that it works properly, by ripping out the DOS think
JP> code and putting in code to do things correctly.  They
JP> could start with the GNU libc code and work from there.
JP> The irony of EMX C++ is that the GNU libc code for handling
JP> time, which EMX C++ *doesn't* use, would actually pretty
JP> much work properly and do the right thing on 32-bit OS/2
JP> with little alteration. )
JP>
JP> This whole subject was discussed at length in this echo at the
JP> beginning of  this year.  I won't go over it all again in this
JP> message,  but will mention one thing:  You can compromise between
JP> having the OS/2 kernel keep time correctly and the broken
JP> applications that were written with the "DOS Think"  mindset.
JP> Simply keep your hardware RTC in local time and  set your TZ
JP> environment variable so that it indicates that  your timezone is
JP> always offset 0 hours from UTC.  (For  example, for Eastern
JP> Australian Standard Time use a TZ  environment variable value of,
JP> say, "EST0EDT0".)  The  OS2CLU02 commands, and everything else that
JP> uses 32-bit  OS/2 as it was actually designed to work, will
JP> calculate  local time correctly, and the broken "DOS think"
JP> applications will also calculate local time correctly.

I remember this early 1999 thread but did not archive it for future
reference. Thank you for the workaround tip.

JP> Of course, there are several undesirable side-effects of this
JP> compromise: You  won't be able to run multiple programs in different
JP>  timezones concurrently, as one *can* do if 32-bit OS/2's
JP> timekeeping mechanism is used as it was actually designed;  file and
JP> directory timestamps won't be maintained in UTC  and thus be
JP> portable from system to system independent of  timezone (as they
JP> should be -- this is another little  understood facet of 32-bit
JP> OS/2's timekeeping); and *no*  program will be able to calculate UTC
JP> correctly, so you  will not be able to use UTC at all should you
JP> desire to do  so.
JP>
JP> However, if you are prepared to live with the above side
JP> effects, this compromise should be acceptable.

God I hate compromise.  ;-)

JP> One more thing ...
JP>
JP>  > JdeBP <

Continued in the next message.

Internet e-mail: [e-mail]

 * KWQ/2 1.2i * AMD Athlon: Proof that Intel isn't working hard enough.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Darren Hamilton                                   20-Sep-99 14:56:02
  To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollar                          20-Sep-99 17:59:16
Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc

On 09-16-1999, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote to Darren Hamilton
about Os2clu02 & Utc.

JP>  DH> This includes OS/2 Warp v3.0 (FP 40) time and date functions, [...]
JP>
JP> You have something to look forward to.
JP>
JP> Not only do the DATE and TIME commands supplied with the 32-bit
JP> CMD command  interpreter display the current timezone and support
JP> the /N  switch (which IBM's documentation describes, you will find,
JP> but which the 16-bit CMD does not actually implement), but  they
JP> *also* operate correctly when it comes to timezone  support and the
JP> TZ environment variable.  So, too,  incidentally, do the various
JP> date and time sequences in the  PROMPT environment variable.
JP>
JP> Cut and pasted from another window:
JP>
JP>         [C:\]ver
JP>         CMD 0.1.14   OS/2 2.40.0
JP>         [C:\]set TZ
JP>         TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1
JP>         [C:\]prompt $D $T $u [$P]
JP>         Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]date /n
JP>         Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 +0100
JP>         Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]set TZ=EST-10EDT,M10.5,M3.5
JP>         Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 EST [C:\]date /n
JP>         Current date is: Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 +1000
JP>         Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:02 EST [C:\]set TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1
JP>         Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 BST [C:\]date
JP>         Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 +0100
JP>         Enter a new date:
JP>
JP>  > JdeBP <
JP>
JP> --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR
JP>  * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish <yuk!> (2:257/609.3)
JP>


Is the 32-bit command interpreter specific to OS/2 v4.0? I tried the
DATE /N command with OS/2 v3.0 (FP 40 and 32-bit CMD.EXE file) and
received an error message:

SYS1036: The system cannot accept the date entered.

Regards,

Darren

Internet e-mail: [e-mail]

 * KWQ/2 1.2i * AMD Athlon: Proof that Intel isn't working hard enough.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Holger Granholm                                   19-Sep-99 21:03:00
  To: Eddy Thilleman                                    20-Sep-99 17:59:16
Subj: Objects

In a message dated 09-17-99, Eddy Thilleman said to Holger Granholm:

HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds
HG> with 32 Mb RAM.

ET>I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA
ET>cards can't address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA
ET>SCSI-cards.

Excuse me Eddy, but you are confusing the issue. Neither the SCSI
controller, nor the video controller are ISA cards here. And neither
are old.

ET>I've 128 MB RAM and my Netscape v4.04 loads in 7 seconds (I timed
ET>it).

Bragging, bragging, I didn't find it necessary to specify the CPU nor
MHz because I saw this as relative measurements.

In case you want to know, this BBS machine runs on an AMD 486DX2/80.
For a BBS that is all that is needed. The only reason to up the RAM
was to load Navigator and other programs a bit faster.

OTOH my work machine runs on an AMD K6-III 400MHz and I'm not
complaining about the speed on that. That's my part of bragging.

Nor did I actually complain about the speed of this BBS machine.
I just told what happened when I increased RAM 16 to 32 Mb.

Have a nice day,

Holger

---
 ■ MR/2 2.26 ■ DOOR (n.) - The way to throw Windows out.

 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Ben Ritchey                                       20-Sep-99 08:42:02
  To: Alan Hess                                         20-Sep-99 17:59:16
Subj: Re^2: NC 4.61

CHRS: IBMPC 2

* Whilst Alan Hess spake unto Ben Ritchey ...

 AH> What do you think of 4.61?

Comparable to Win95 version and stable enough, though they both have a
tendency to crash on occasion at certain sites. Still my Browser of choice. :)

    Be well,

      Ben    aka CMech  http://Positron.org/cmech/

--- GoldED/386 3.00.Beta5+
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From: Mark Ellis                                        20-Sep-99 06:48:13
  To: Mike Ruskai                                       20-Sep-99 20:42:18
Subj: Re: Objects

MR>  ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) 4meg 30
MR>  ME> pin  simms around these parts.
MR>
MR> I've been buying online since before the Internet craze started.  You can
MR> always find cheaper prices via mail order, and can hunt for the best one.

MR> I just did a quick check, and 32MB of RAM in 4MB 30-pin SIMMs can be had
MR> for less than $50.  That's US dollars, of course, though I don't think
your
MR> Canuck money is down that far in comparison these days :)

that would be roughly $70 i would guess. Oddly enuff i just sent off an answer
to a post in a local for sale group for $10 each so if i can pick up 4 more i
will have 32megs total. this should help. Though i must say all the
suggestions i've gotten in here have help dramatically.

---
 * Origin: Electric Prayers - Guelph ON - 519-823-8392 (1:221/802)
1500

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Will Honea                                        21-Sep-99 01:34:00
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   21-Sep-99 01:34:00
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Roy J. Tellason wrote to Alan Hess on 09-19-1999

RT> Alan Hess wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:
RT>
RT>  AH> Whilst masticating on <Sep 19 99>, Roy J. Tellason
RT>  AH> (1:270/615) wrote to Alan Hess:
RT>
RT> AH>> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can
RT> AH>> the files in the two be combined somehow?  *adh*
RT>
RT> RJT> Those things are doing stuff at two different levels.  The
RT> RJT> former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking
RT> RJT> to,  which protocols are assigned to what,  etc. wile the other
RT> RJT> handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction.
RT> RJT> Why would you want to do that,  anyway?
RT>
RT>  AH> Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees,
RT>  AH> so I wondered if they could be combined.
RT>
RT> Well,  whenever I wonder whether I really need some
RT> particular file or not,  I try renaming it.  Usually to
RT> something.sav,  and see if anything breaks.  If so,  it's a
RT> simple matter to put it back the way it was...

Yes, and if you guess right you might even get the next fixpak to
install correctly but If you don't guess right on which to delete...

Will Honea <[e-mail]>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Will Honea                                        21-Sep-99 01:54:01
  To: Murray Lesser                                     21-Sep-99 01:54:01
Subj: OS/2 Support

Murray Lesser wrote to Jack Stein on 09-19-1999

ML>     I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home
ML> systems, even if it is never updated!  If new applications I may
ML> decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2, I will
ML> write my own.  It isn't any problem for me to avoid using hardware
ML> that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned long ago never to be
ML> the first kid on the block with the latest computer gadgets or
ML> software.  I may never update my present hardware unless it dies
ML> :-).  If I last long enough, I may well be the last noncommercial
ML> OS/2 user around!  (Will Honea may outlast me!)

Hey, a little repect if you will!  As it happens, I took this current
contract 18 months ago to maintain an OS/2 desktop app for a big
telecom outfit.  Supposed to last 6 months, they are now talking about
upgrading several thousand desktops to Warp 4 (they still use Warp 3 )
and the app has nearly doubled in size and function with over $2
million budgeted for software updates and extensions next year.  I
thought I was stepping into an easy job but I've been working my fanny
off because all the young twerps want nothing to do with a 'dead OS'.
I really appreciate that attitude every week when I go to the bank:
supply and demand at work <g>.

As long as it's the best tool for the job I'll keep using it and I
haven't found a better one yet.  And if I ever do get to retire
(anybody know a good way to prod the last young one thru college in a
reasonable time?) I still have enough goodies from IBM to keep me
entertained for a long tiem - I might even re-install PL/I.

As for OS/2 being abandoned, that's a matter of perspective.  This job
is for a company that is big enough to get IBM's attention so I can
pick up a phone and get (reasonably) competent help any time I want
it.
 Support looks a lot different when you are one of IBM's targets!

As an aside, Murray, if you will think back you will discover that
Microsoft did not sell a retail copy of DOS until the 5.0 upgrade came
out.  They were all bundled with a computer and only IBM sold DOS as a
separate product.  DOS is probably the most pirated single program ever
distributed.

Will Honea <[e-mail]>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Alan Hess                                         20-Sep-99 19:23:10
  To: Roy J. Tellason                                   21-Sep-99 07:57:16
Subj: \tcpip and \mptn

Whilst masticating on <Sep 19 99>, Roy J. Tellason (1:270/615)
wrote to Alan Hess:

AH>> Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees,
AH>> so I wondered if they could be combined.

RJT> Well,  whenever I wonder whether I really need some particular file or
RJT> not,  I try renaming it.  Usually to something.sav,  and see if anything
RJT> breaks.  If so,  it's a simple matter to put it back the way it was...

Great idea!  Thanks - I'll try that.  *adh*

--- Msged/2 TE 05
 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Stephen Haffly                                    19-Sep-99 17:17:01
  To: Alan Hess                                         21-Sep-99 07:57:16
Subj: NC 4.61

On (18 Sep 99) Alan Hess wrote to all...

Hi Alan,

 AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has anyone
 AH> installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if it's possible
 AH> and works that way.

Yes. it works fine.


TTYL,

Stephen
Team OS/2, Team GEOS
OS/2 & New Deal Office 98 - A great combination.

... It works better if you plug it in.

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From: James Mckenzie                                    20-Sep-99 09:04:00
  To: Louis Aubree                                      21-Sep-99 07:57:16
Subj: Netscape Communicator

Hello Louis!

15 Sep 99 21:15, Louis Aubree wrote to James Mckenzie:

 LA> Tobias Ernst replied to you :

 JM>>> AS A WORD OF NOTE:  IBM IS REQUIRED TO ENFORCE THE FRENCH LAW
 JM>>> WHICH REQUIRES YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE "INTERNATIONAL:FRANCE"
 JM>>> VERSION.

 TE>>
 TE>> What's behind that law? Why should a person from France be
 TE>> prohibited from downloading an international English or German
 TE>> or whatever version if he likes that language better?
 TE>>
 TE>> Or does the French version have even less crypotgraphy then
 TE>> the 40 bits for the rest of the world?

 LA> No, the French law doesn't rule the rest of the world. Even if some
 LA> highbrows there believe the Earth is flat with Paris right in the
 LA> middle... :-))

I'll agree with that statement.

 LA> No, the French law doesn't prohibit to download any cryptography
 LA> program from abroad. It used to prohibit to USE any crypting... Then,
 LA> in 1997, 40 bits keys were allowed. Now, the new rule is that 128
 LA> bits keys will be allowed. (Thanks to "Echelon"...).

Thanks for the clarification on the law.

 LA> But of course, we can't download (nor buy...) any U.S. product
 LA> including crypting with keys longer than 40 bits, not because of
 LA> French law, but because of U.S. law prohibiting such exports. Every
 LA> other country in the world (well, almost?) suffers the same U.S. law,
 LA> so Europe has its own companies specialized in crypting products.

Silly isn't it.  Try looking at www.fortify.com....

I guess the "crypto-police" forgot that PGP was available and uses up to a
4096 bit key in its latest version.

James

... Windows Error #0001: Windows loaded. System in danger!
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
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From: Holger Granholm                                   20-Sep-99 20:54:00
  To: Paul Hildebrandt                                  21-Sep-99 10:29:08
Subj: Re: BGFAX reg

-=> Paul Hildebrandt wrote to Holger Granholm <=-

 PH> I decided not to bother untill I had more money. If you want to
 PH> contact him by internet here's the info:

 PH> E-mail: [e-mail]
 PH> http://www.blkbox.com/~bgfax/

Thanks Paul, I've seen his e-mail address already here in the echo but
not the http address.

Have a nice day,

Holger


... If you find yourself in a hole -- stop digging.
--- MultiMail/IBMPcDos v0.29

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Charles Gaefke                                    20-Sep-99 20:47:15
  To: Frits Spieker                                     21-Sep-99 10:29:08
Subj: Re: It's over. Period.

FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to use in
t
FS> near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed to do (and good
a
FS> that too!), it is falling further behind by the day. Trying to install
Warp
FS> a modern day system is a pain in the proverbial donkey and it is getting
ha
FS> and harder to find new hardware that is supported.

    So...

    How many people still use DOS?

    How many people still use Windows 3.1?

    How many people still use Windows 95?

    All the above are obsolete and are no longer supported, with some minor
exception for Windows 95.

    I know I'm going to be using OS/2 for a -long- time.  Windows just plain
doesn't cut it.  I use it for games and burning CDs.

    Everything else is OS/2.


C. Gaefke
[e-mail]



... Have your dreams come true?

--- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1
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From: Bert Sainz                                        19-Sep-99 14:46:26
  To: Ruth Argust                                       21-Sep-99 10:29:08
Subj: Video card

 >  LE> Ah. You haven't heard the old joke:

 >  LE> Q. What's the difference between a computer salesman and a used car
 >  LE> salesman? A. The used car salesman *knows* when he's lieing.

 > I believe that many computer salesmen have to take an advance test for
 > their employment. If their IQ exceeds 50, they don't get the job :)

I once asked a salesman if the piece of hardware I was looking to buy came
with drivers for OS/2. His answer: "OS/2? Could you spell that?"

Most salesmen are picked from the shallow end of the gene pool.

Bert

---
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From: Jan Danielsson                                    21-Sep-99 02:18:09
  To: Frits Spieker                                     21-Sep-99 15:22:24
Subj: It's over. Period.

 FS> Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2 client.
 FS> IBM has decided that it is not in their customers interest to
 FS> release (or have released) another OS/2 client.

Did IBM say that?

   Don't belive everything Stardock say. It's likely that there will not be
any new OS/2 client. But saying that there never will be one is just plain
dumb.


   Remember OS/2 for PowerPC? Everyone was waiting for the big release; but it
never came and many user shouted "But you promised!!". Had IBM promised? Nope.
No one could find any official "we promise" from IBM. Now; try to find the
official statement from IBM stating that there _never_ will be any new OS/2
client. You'll find that they have "no current plans" for an OS/2 client.


   It's important to be realistic; I repeat - it's likely that there will be
no new OS/2 client version. However, do not make the mistake of taking
whatever comes from Stardock as the absolute truth.


I for one will not consider using any other system until:
1. IBM removes the OS/2 Warp4 pages from their web.
2. I find a better system.



   I'm tired of bumping into Stardock lemmings wherever I turn. I wish
everyone who 'follows' Brad Wardell would simply stop using OS/2 and get it
over with. Then all the OS/2 users who use OS/2 because they like it (and not
because Stardock supported it) can get back to the everyday OS/2 computing.
Just as yesterday, and the day before that, and the day before that. When the
time comes to switch to another system, we'll do that. But we won't just
because Stardock says it's time.


   If I'm not wrong, you'll say that IBM never really supported OS/2. IBM will
kill Linux. There's no chance there will be a new OS/2 version. OS/2 is dead.
And all that. I'm guessing you will not listen to reason, so I'll simply do
what I always do when I know there's no end to a discussion. I'll give you the
final punch, I'll read what you have to say, but I won't answer it unless you
ask me a specific non-flame question in which case I'll answer it by netmail.


Good luck with whatever new system you chose.


--- timEd/2 1.10
 * Origin: Usch, det finns. (2:205/323)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Eddy Thilleman                                    20-Sep-99 23:46:13
  To: Mike Ruskai                                       21-Sep-99 19:35:23
Subj: Objects

Hello Mike,

18 Sep 99 00:00, MIKE RUSKAI wrote to EDDY THILLEMAN:

MR> The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or not they perform
MR> bus mastering DMA.

Yes, now I remember that. :) Another cause of this symptom is when the
mainboard can't cache all the memory because of too few TAG RAM chips (as I
remember now).

... Rain: The gods are washing their windows.
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Windows98 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7)
280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Russell Tiedt                                     19-Sep-99 09:02:05
  To: Eddy Thilleman                                    21-Sep-99 23:45:25
Subj: Objects

Eddy Thilleman wrote in a message to Holger Granholm:

HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment.
HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds
HG> with 32 Mb RAM.

 ET> I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA
 ET> cards can't address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA
 ET> SCSI-cards.

Does this include Adaptec 1542B SCSI cards.

Go well, and God bless,

Russell
--- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+
 * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23)
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Russell Tiedt                                     19-Sep-99 09:08:10
  To: Cyrill Vakhneyev                                  21-Sep-99 23:45:25
Subj: Installing Fixpack?

Cyrill Vakhneyev wrote in a message to Russell Tiedt:

 CV> 02 Sep 99 17:26, Russell Tiedt wrote to Cyrill Vakhneyev:
 RT>> I get the following error on running  "fpinst WARP3" CSF0257: No
 RT>> product has been selected.
 CV>>     Use latest kicker package. For example 1.39 or newer.
 RT> What I was using was CSF140.exe, and the fixpack images where unpacked
 RT> to C:\XRUW038\FIX\.
 RT> Disk images are in C:\XRUW038\, maybe I should copy them to C:\FIX\, I
 RT> don't know. Also I don't have the time right now to play with it
 RT> further.
 CV>     Grrrr... If you _really_ want to set up fixpack from HDD do the
 CV> next:     1) unpack _any_ faskick in temp catalog
 CV>     2) unpack all fixpack images in same place
 CV>     3) unpack latest CSF in _same_ place
 CV>     run fix.cmd
 CV>     enjoy.
 CV>     Another way. Read manuals from CSF. Some cool hints are
 CV> described in.

I take it that by catalog you mean directory?

When I unpack the disks, do I allow them to create subdirectories from this
directory?

The only way that seems likely to work from reading the manuals that makes
any sort of sense is installing from floppy images, which I would rather not
do, but will do as a last resort, that is if I don't move to Linux first.

Go well, and God bless,

Russell
--- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+
 * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23)
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Russell Tiedt                                     19-Sep-99 14:28:00
  To: All                                               21-Sep-99 23:45:25
Subj: Virus?

Hi,

What is the effect of the following virus on OS/2? Nothing I suspect but this
is the second time I have received an e-mail with the following attachment.

Wonder how long it will take Micro-Sloth to fix Outlook and Outlook Express
so that their address books are secure?



                   V I R U S  A L E R T

  Our viruschecker found a VIRUS in a mail from
     [e-mail]
  to you.

  Delivery of the email was stopped!

The following viruses were found:-
{ I-Worm.PrettyPark}

  Please contact the sender for details

This is the second such message I have received inside a week.

Go well, and God bless,

Russell
--- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+
 * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23)
280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: MIKE RUSKAI                                       20-Sep-99 18:28:00
  To: CHARLES GAEFKE                                    21-Sep-99 23:45:25
Subj: Re: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n

Some senseless babbling from Charles Gaefke to Jack Stein
on 09-19-99  19:54 about Re: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n...

 JS> Modem manufacturers have done a bang up job of confusing most everyone.
Ev
 JS> hard core computer folks turn belly up when reading a modem manual...

 CG> Nowadays it is hard to obtain a modem with a manual.  I've got
 CG> manuals for both my Courier's and for my Sportster.  I rarely reference
 CG> them, but when I  do, they usually tell me exactly what I need.

My two Couriers are the only modems I've ever bought that came with a
useful manual.

 CG> Really, though, I think the extinction of modems is in the near
 CG> future.   They just can't meet up with the demands of today's high
 CG> bandwidth  requirements.  Of course, if they'd ban advertisements, I
 CG> bet we wouldn't need half of what we're currently using.

Only if the only use you have for the Internet is web browsing.  That's not
even my primary use.  I had a cable modem for two years (moved outside the
service area), so I can say from experience that no one who uses the
Internet for more than 5 minutes a day would consider any modem fast
enough, when presented with the high-speed alternatives.  I'll be moving
again in a few months, and hopefully DSL will be available there by then.

Using a modem is painful, now.

Mike Ruskai
[e-mail]


... Alzheimer's advantage - new friends every day.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2
 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE!  WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140)
114/441
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Rosenau                                   21-Sep-99 12:30:22
  To: Mark Ellis                                        22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: Re: Objects

 ME> This was my next question. I never use the warpcenter so I was
 ME> wondering if i could safely turn it off. I dont want the
 ME> launchpad either.It seems i do everything off the desktop. I fit
 ME> lots there by making the icons invisible so i just have text
 ME> showing.

It's on you to remove or insert the keywords in autostart line in config.sys
to remove/insert both/none or one of it.

HR>> Then if you don't like the WPS change
HR>> RUNWORKPLACE to x:\os2\cmd.exe

 ME> Will I be able to open multiple windows if I do this? Dos and
 ME> os/2 ones?

Yes.

protshell activates the PM. This is what you really needs to have multiple
windows. If you change this line to cmd.exe - or a program of your own you'll
lost the ability of PM.

You don't loose the ability to starte multiple programs - but you can't start
them in foreground. So you can't switch to.



runworkplace defines as default the WPS. This is the object oriented shell. It
defines your desktop and all icons on it. If you replaces this with cmd.exe or
an PM program of your own you'll lost a lot of comfort. You can't use the
font- and color palette, all objects in connections folder (you have to use
the commandline programs), .......

Don't wouder that pmshell is started twice. The first one (protshell)
activates the basic graphical functions (PM). This gets you the ability to
start any PM program, multiple windows and full screens, DOS and Windows
Programs.

The second one activates the WPS. Now you have a lot of icons representing
folders, files and other objects.

 ME> I was originally thinking of going to do/desqview,

Urghs!

 ME> but i figured i should try and learn os/2 a bit more. All I need
 ME> is text based windows and the ability to jump between them.

Search for tshell in your neighbours mailboxes or in internet. There are some
other shell to replace the WPS and/or the PM.

HR>> But the most practicabe way is: inser more RAM (a total of 32 MB
HR>> is recommendet, a total of 64MB is sufficient)

 ME> drats, I keep hearing this  :)

Yeah. The full comfort of OS/2 is in WPS and its object oriented handling. It
will be a little complicated to understand the full spectrum of its
capabilities but if you had done the first step you'll find more and more ways
to become simple and quick handling on your data and programs. The crux is it
is memory hungry.

If you can spend 32 or better 64 MB RAM to your computer I recommend you to
try to work with WPS. Activate the learn program and play with it. After a
short time you would never missing the WPS. At least you would organise your
virtual desktop better and easier than your real office!

--- Sqed/32 1.14/development
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Rosenau                                   21-Sep-99 13:22:25
  To: Mark Ellis                                        22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: Re: Objects

MR>> Opening the data file itself will load the program it's
MR>> associated with,
MR>> with it as a parameter.

 ME> I do this now. Once I found an association editor it made it easy
 ME> enuff for me to do.

On WPS you don't use such thing. You can do it simply by opening the program
object settings and associate the types and or classes of objects they have to
launch for.

For your own (also non standard data objects you my assign a class to it (open
the settings of that object to do so) and then you my assign that class to any
program that should launch to.

Play a little with the learn program that comes with OS/2 to become a feeling
for all that you can do without special programs.

MR>> Memory is quite cheap these days.  I spent over $1200 on the 32MB
MR>> I put in that 486, but I recently spent less than $100 for an
MR>> additional 128MB for this machine.

 ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4)
 ME> 4meg 30 pin simms around these parts.

Hey, this are prices from some years ago. Lokk for announces in your daily and
on some pages in WEB to find cheap used memory.

--- Sqed/32 1.14/development
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Rosenau                                   21-Sep-99 13:34:12
  To: Russell Tiedt                                     22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: StarOffice?

 RT> Hi,

 RT> A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I would
 RT> like to install it but I seem unable to get a registration code
 RT> from the "stardivision.com" web site for some reason. Does anyone
 RT> have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it.

Go to SUN, the new owner of staroffice:

http://www.sun.com/

to download SO 5.1a or to order a CD containing all versions (OS/2, Win,
Linux, Solaris) for $9,95 + shipping.

This version is really free. No key needed.

--- Sqed/32 1.14/development
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Rosenau                                   21-Sep-99 13:10:04
  To: MIKE RUSKAI                                       22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: Objects

 MR> The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or not they
 MR> perform bus mastering DMA.  Since ISA slots only have a 24-bit
 MR> DMA available to them, they limit OS/2's direct addressing
 MR> ability to 16MB.  Anything above that is used as fast swap space.

But if you have an adaptec you can use the switch /DBUFF on your driver to
become double buffering and so you can use the full memory amount. This will
slow down any disk transfer but tunes the memory usage up.

--- Sqed/32 1.14/development
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280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Rosenau                                   21-Sep-99 13:19:12
  To: Dan Egli                                          22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: OS/2 and SoundBlaster AWE64

 DE> Ok all. How do I get my SoundBlaster AWE64 configured w/ Warp 4?

----------------------------Abbeißen-----------------------
SB326411.ZIP 1763503 25.02.98  Sound Blaster Drivers SB 16, AWE32, AWE64
                               and Utilities v1.1  Here is Daniel Caetano. I'm
                               a brazilian user of OS/2 and I become
                               concerned with Creative Labs' decision to stop
                               supporting OS/2, bu  once the last (and I mean
                               *the last ones*) drivers are working fin  under
                               OS/2, there is no reason for killing myself.
                               Well... What is this "package"?  This package
                               is a "union" for FOU  packages that Creative
                               labs distributed, but the FOUR have problem  on
                               its instalations. So, I decided to eliminate
                               the problems on     instalation and try to make
                               it easy, too.                             Well,
                               I hope you all enjoy that, because I think this
                               is the last   time that we will see something
                               from Creative for OS/2!               And YES!
                               This is REAL. The support for AWE32 of this
                               version        *WORKS* with all AWE64 Cards on
                               the market up today (24/02/1998).

----------------------------Abbeißen-----------------------


 DE> And if possible, I do NOT want the mmpm stuff installed. I never
 DE> use it so its a waste of space. If absolutely necessary, I'll
 DE> install it. But Prefferable solutions will give me access to the
 DE> SB Card in programs w/o installing all the PM controlls, and the
 DE> wav and AVI files.

Do you drive your car without wheels?

You'll need MMPM - but not the waves AVI and bitmaps that comes with.

--- Sqed/32 1.14/development
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Herbert Rosenau                                   21-Sep-99 13:21:26
  To: Alan Hess                                         22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: NC 4.61

 AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has
 AH> anyone installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if
 AH> it's possible and works that way.

I'd installed it in another directory - and it uses the bookmarks and other
settings from 4.04 automatically.

--- Sqed/32 1.14/development
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Tobias Ernst                                      21-Sep-99 22:31:20
  To: Alan Hess                                         22-Sep-99 03:20:18
Subj: NC 4.61

* Originally by: Herbert Rosenau (2:2476/493), 21 Sep 99 13:21.

Hallo Alan!

 AH>> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta.  Has
 AH>> anyone installed it over 4.04?  I'm considering doing that, if
 AH>> it's possible and works that way.

I have installed the 4.61 release over 4.04 yesterday without any problems up
to now. My 4.04 originally was installed parallel to 2.02 (i.E. in another
directory), and that configuration remained, i.E. I can now either use 4.61 or
2.02, and they share the bookmark file.

I don't think you should install 4.61 parallel to 4.04, because 4.04 is not
worth keeping. 4.04 is as ressource-hogging as 4.61, but has more bugs. 2.02,
on the other hand, is worth keeping because it starts up faster :-).

Viele Grⁿ▀e,
Tobias

--- Msged/BSD TE 06 (pre)
 * Origin: Running FreeBSD 3.2 (2:2476/418)
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: John Thompson                                     21-Sep-99 20:13:00
  To: Eddy Thilleman                                    22-Sep-99 06:57:06
Subj: Objects

In a message to Holger Granholm, Eddy Thilleman wrote re: Objects

HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment.
HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds
HG> with 32 Mb RAM.

ET> I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA cards
can't
ET> address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA SCSI-cards.

Not ISA cards in general, but rather ISA bus-mastering cards.  I
have an ISA SCSI HBA and as long as I don't enable bus-mastering
it has no problem addressing over 16MB of memory.


 * KWQ/2 1.2i * Internet: [e-mail]

--- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10
 * Origin: Spare Parts BBS - Appleton WI (920-731-7697) (1:139/0)
3613/666

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Murray Lesser                                     22-Sep-99 06:51:00
  To: Will Honea                                        22-Sep-99 06:51:00
Subj: OS/2 Support

(Excerpts from a message dated 09-21-99, Will Honea to Murray Lesser)

Hi Will--

ML>     I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home
ML> systems, even if it is never updated!  If new applications I may
ML> decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2, I will
ML> write my own.  It isn't any problem for me to avoid using hardware
ML> that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned long ago never to be
ML> the first kid on the block with the latest computer gadgets or
ML> software.  I may never update my present hardware unless it dies
ML> :-).  If I last long enough, I may well be the last noncommercial
ML> OS/2 user around!  (Will Honea may outlast me!)

WH>Hey, a little repect if you will!  As it happens, I took this current
  >contract 18 months ago to maintain an OS/2 desktop app for a big
  >telecom outfit.  Supposed to last 6 months, they are now talking
  >about upgrading several thousand desktops to Warp 4 (they still use
  >Warp 3 ) and the app has nearly doubled in size and function with
  >over $2 million budgeted for software updates and extensions next
  >year.  I thought I was stepping into an easy job but I've been
  >working my fanny off because all the young twerps want nothing to do
  >with a 'dead OS'. I really appreciate that attitude every week when
  >I go to the bank: supply and demand at work <g>.

    I've forgotten the exact number (I think it was around $18,000/month
in US money) that David told me PL/I contract programmers in London were
getting for Y2K work.  Even COBOL programmers are getting rich these
days (at least until the end of the year!).  It seems that it really
pays to be obsolete :-).

WH>As long as it's the best tool for the job I'll keep using it and I
  >haven't found a better one yet.  And if I ever do get to retire
  >(anybody know a good way to prod the last young one thru college in a
  >reasonable time?) I still have enough goodies from IBM to keep me
  >entertained for a long tiem - I might even re-install PL/I.

    You will just have to tough it out.  I retired shortly after I made
the last tuition payment for my younger daughter.

WH>As for OS/2 being abandoned, that's a matter of perspective.  This
  >job is for a company that is big enough to get IBM's attention so I
  >can pick up a phone and get (reasonably) competent help any time I
  >want it.
  > Support looks a lot different when you are one of IBM's targets!

WH>As an aside, Murray, if you will think back you will discover that
  >Microsoft did not sell a retail copy of DOS until the 5.0 upgrade
  >came out.  They were all bundled with a computer and only IBM sold
  >DOS as a separate product.  DOS is probably the most pirated single
  >program ever distributed.

    Yeah, but IBM was selling it as a separate product long before
anybody else made a computer that could use it.  IIRC, only IBM and
Compaq modified Microsoft's DOS to improve the performance of their
hardware.  All the "clone" manufacturers took it just as it came from
MS.  According to an old DESQview386 manual I have, both IBM's and
Compaq's DOS were "tuned" to their specific hardware, so their machines
running under their versions of DOS had much better performance than did
the infringing clones running under Microsoft's.  These measurements

were made after DOS 5.0 came out, so users of IBM or Compaq machines
were very foolish trying to save a buck by stealing the MS "generic"
version from a friend, or buying it from their local discount store :-(.

    Regards,

        --Murray
<Team PL/I>
___
 * MR/2 2.25 #120 * Fidonet is almost like having a social life

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jeffrey J. Counsil                                21-Sep-99 11:36:26
  To: Mark Ellis                                        22-Sep-99 13:35:26
Subj: Re: Objects

On Stardate 17 Sep 99  08:19:14, Mark Ellis Communicated the Following
To Mike Ruskai, Regarding Re: Objects...

ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) 4meg 30 pin
ME> simms around these parts.

How would $35 U.S. sound?

--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: Way Out There!...The StarPort 1-717-753-8120 (1:268/402)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Coridon Henshaw                                   21-Sep-99 16:22:01
  To: Frits Spieker                                     22-Sep-99 13:35:26
Subj: It's over. Period.

On Sunday September 19 1999 at 07:31, Frits Spieker wrote to All:

 FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to
 FS> use in the near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed
 FS> to do (and good at that too!), it is falling further behind by the
 FS> day.

I agree.  OS/2 works fine, and will continue to work fine, on '94-era
hardware.  Unfortunately, '94-era hardware is rather hard to come by these
days.  Sure, it still works with modern hard drives, CDROMs, keyboards, mice
(most of them, at least) and floppy drives.  But on the other hand, finding
supported sound and video hardware very difficult at best.  And forget about
support for any of the new and interesting devices such as Firewire DASD and
portable MP3 players.

I've been looking at alternative OSes for some time now, and generally
speaking, I can only see two: Linux and WinNT.

Linux is in the same position as OS/2 was in the months before Win95's
release; it is gaining momentum and support (both in terms of hardware and
software).  With Win2000 just around the corner, I am concerned that Linux may
repeat history and suffer the same fate as OS/2 Warp 3 suffered when Win95 was
released.

In some ways Linux is a step backwards from OS/2.  For example, the one of
best ways to run WIN3.1 apps under Linux is to install WinOS2 (!) inside
DOSEMU.  While improving, Linux's legacy software support (DOS/WIN3.1) leaves
much to be desired--and Linux applications don't exist in large enough numbers
for legacy support to be irrelevant.

WinNT has its own drawbacks: hardware requirements, price, questionable
hardware support for non server-grade equipment, poor legacy DOS support
(forget DOS games...) and the fact that it's sold by Microsoft.  Not to
mention that WinNT is on the verge of being obsoleted by Win2000.

Basically speaking, anyone who wants full hardware and software support must
buy Windows 9X.  I'm not going to stoop that low unless I have no other
choice.

My poison, you ask?  If Mandrake Linux doesn't work out, I'll be forced to
switch to NT.  :-(

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Life sucks and then you croak. (1:250/820)
114/441
387/770

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Coridon Henshaw                                   21-Sep-99 17:13:03
  To: Charles Gaefke                                    22-Sep-99 13:35:26
Subj: File Managers

On Sunday September 19 1999 at 20:01, Charles Gaefke wrote to Jack Stein:

 JS>> That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally dominates
 JS>> the desktop.  That will not happen I'm afraid.  There was a good
 JS>> opportunity fr 1991 to 1995, but IBM made certain it did NOT happen.

 CG> I think Windows has rode the wave.. and from here it's going to go
 CG> downhill.

I think that depends on the outcome of the various MS antitrust suits.  If MS
gets hammered, WinXX could end up very much dead.  If MS gets off scot free,
or even with another slap on the wrist, the Microsoft monopoly will grow
explosively, likely in areas beyond the computing field.



If Linux can sustain its growth rate for another few years, Microsoft just
might have something to worry about.  OS/2 is out of the race.

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Life sucks and then you croak. (1:250/820)
114/441
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Stewart Honsberger                                22-Sep-99 10:11:11
  To: Russell Tiedt                                     22-Sep-99 14:37:11
Subj: Virus?

19 Sep 99 14:28, Russell Tiedt wrote to All:

 RT> What is the effect of the following virus on OS/2? Nothing I suspect
 RT> but this is the second time I have received an e-mail with the
 RT> following attachment.

My guess is nothing, but you could try to find one of those online virus
references online, or grab a virus software with a searchable database.

 RT> Wonder how long it will take Micro-Sloth to fix Outlook and Outlook
 RT> Express so that their address books are secure?

Never, I'd imagine. They've integrated it (and IE) so far into the core
OS, they couldn't pull it out with the jaws of life.

Stewart Honsberger,
  [e-mail]

... FRENCH TICKLER.....A guy with a feather from Paris
-!- GOPGP/2 v1.23

--- Msged/2 TE 05
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1500

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Holger Granholm                                   21-Sep-99 21:05:00
  To: Murray Lesser                                     22-Sep-99 14:37:11
Subj: OS/2 Support

In a message dated 09-19-99, Murray Lesser said to Jack Stein:

Hi Murray,

ML>    I don't do, and never have done, Windows!  Personally, I am very
ML>pleased that none of my relatives nor friends run OS/2.  I joyfully
ML>tell them that I can't help them when they run into Windows trouble
ML>:-).

Heh, heh, same here. It saves one a lot of trouble.

However, I admit that I still have that old VolksWagen named WfWg 3.11
installed on my work machine.  Only my grandson uses it though for his
schoolwork.

Have a nice day,

Holger

___
 * MR/2 2.26 * Speed Kills - Use Windows!

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
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280/801

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Steve McCrystal                                   21-Sep-99 06:42:01
  To: Will Honea                                        22-Sep-99 17:54:18
Subj: Cache

;
In a msg of <Sunday September 19 1999>, Will Honea writes to Murray Lesser:
;
Will,

 WH> Even the hard-copy versions are shooting at a moving target these
 WH> days.  FP11 introduced some spindown functions in the IDE drivers
 WH> that caused a lot of grief until one of the Austin group posted
 WH> the info needed to 'fix' the fix - a new, totally undocumented
 WH> (outside the developers) feature.

If you have any documentation on that 'feature', as well as the workaround,
could you post it or email it to me at [e-mail]?

-[Steve]-

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1/#
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Eddy Thilleman                                    21-Sep-99 10:00:18
  To: Louis Aubree                                      22-Sep-99 20:42:19
Subj: Netscape Communicator

Hello Louis,

15 Sep 99 21:15, Louis Aubree wrote to James Mckenzie:

LA> in 1997, 40 bits keys were allowed. Now, the new rule is that 128
LA> bits keys will be allowed. (Thanks to "Echelon"...).

You can use fortify to enable the 'strong' encryption key in the international
version of Netscape. See http://www.fortify.net

  Greetings   -=Eddy=-        email: [e-mail]

... Windows: The Gates of hell.
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Windows98 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Will Honea                                        22-Sep-99 20:50:00
  To: Steve McCrystal                                   22-Sep-99 20:50:00
Subj: Cache

Steve McCrystal wrote to Will Honea on 09-21-1999

SM> If you have any documentation on that 'feature', as well as the
SM> workaround,  could you post it or email it to me at
SM> [e-mail]?

Steve, as I understand it, the driver attempts to use the spin-down as
part of the file system clean up during ACD or shutdown processing.
Some disks then like that state so well they refuse to wake up until
you cycle the power <g>.  The only workaround available is to add
/!SHUTDOWN to the IBM1S506.ADD line. (or is the /!SPINDOWN ?????)

Search dejanews for SHUTDOWN - one of the Austin troops posted a
little info including the above a couple of weeks back.

Will Honea <[e-mail]>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Rob Basler                                        22-Sep-99 22:49:02
  To: Frits Spieker                                     23-Sep-99 08:43:18
Subj: It's over. Period.

FS>Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2
FS>client. IBM has decided that it is not in their customers
FS>interest to release (or have released) another OS/2 client.

Well, it is official.  The sky is still falling.  Initial reports of
this unusual phenomena started pouring in to these news offices at about
the time of the release of OS/2 2.0.  Since that time the sky has
continued to fall dramatically, on a regular basis.

We recommend that OS/2 users who are not used to this phenomena move
immediately to shelters, safely away from their modems, until this
latest wave subsides.

On a more serious note, there appears now to be some significant
disagreement over what may or may not have happened regarding the
meeting with IBM and Stardock.  IBM has not said there will never be a
new client.  Some have said the meeting never took place.

Meanwhile I am enjoying the preparations for the very sunny day
when I receive my new SMP machine to go with my brand-new OS/2 client
software (OS/2 Warp Server for e-Business).

Oh happy day!

Rob.
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Windows Backup Started.  Insert disk 1 of 38544.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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From: Ruth Argust                                       22-Sep-99 23:22:09
  To: Bert Sainz                                        23-Sep-99 10:24:28
Subj: Video card

Hi Bert.

Bert Sainz wrote in a message to Ruth Argust:

 BS> I once asked a salesman if the piece of hardware I was looking to
 BS> buy came with drivers for OS/2. His answer: "OS/2? Could you spell
 BS> that?"

:) I must admit that's one I have never heard.

 BS> Most salesmen are picked from the shallow end of the gene pool.

Where they landed on their heads from a long fall off the diving board...

                                *ruth*

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From: Sean Dennis                                       22-Sep-99 22:17:22
  To: Charles Gaefke                                    23-Sep-99 10:24:28
Subj: It's over. Period.

Hello Charles.

20 Sep 99 20:47, you wrote to Frits Spieker:

 CG>     All the above are obsolete and are no longer supported, with some
 CG> minor exception for Windows 95.

 CG>     I know I'm going to be using OS/2 for a -long- time.  Windows just
 CG> plain doesn't cut it.  I use it for games and burning CDs.

 CG>     Everything else is OS/2.

As soon as I get SCSI, I'll be burning CDs too. ;)

Later,
Sean

... "So you've come to say you're very sorry" -- Type O Negative
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From: Sean Dennis                                       22-Sep-99 22:18:14
  To: Bert Sainz                                        23-Sep-99 10:24:28
Subj: Video card

Hello Bert.

19 Sep 99 14:46, you wrote to Ruth Argust:

 BS> I once asked a salesman if the piece of hardware I was looking to buy
 BS> came with drivers for OS/2. His answer: "OS/2? Could you spell that?"

 BS> Most salesmen are picked from the shallow end of the gene pool.

Time for some chlorine in the gene pool. ;)

Later,
Sean

... "Like to get to know you well" -- Howard Jones
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From: Sean Dennis                                       22-Sep-99 22:19:26
  To: Jan Danielsson                                    23-Sep-99 10:24:28
Subj: It's over. Period.

Hello Jan.

21 Sep 99 02:18, you wrote to Frits Spieker:


 JD>    If I'm not wrong, you'll say that IBM never really supported OS/2.
 JD> IBM will kill Linux. There's no chance there will be a new OS/2

That would be a really damned stupid move on IBM's part to kill an open source
OS.  Do you understand how Linux is designed?  It's not a closed system like
OS/2.  So, IBM can't kill off Linux.

This isn't a flame, this is a fact.

Sean

... "Like to get to know you well" -- Howard Jones
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From: Torsten Balle Koefoed                             16-Sep-99 22:44:29
  To: Nick Andre                                        23-Sep-99 15:28:25
Subj: MP3 setup

Hi there Nick!

Replying to a message of Nick Andre to All:

 NA> I *need*  software that will record from the Line In jack and
 NA> encode direct to MP3.

I'm afraid you won't find anything. You will to record to wav-files and then
encode to MP3.

The choices for recording are limited, but if you don't mind using text mode
you can get TWAVE123.ZIP from http://hobbes.nmsu.edu. This program uses DART
so you shouldn't need MMOS2.

For MP3 encoding the best choice is BladeEncoder, which you'll find at
http://bladeenc.home.ml.org/.

There's also the old port of the Fraunhofer L3enc, but the sound quality does
not match with BladeEncoder. I don't know if it's faster, though.

Yours etc.
  Torsten Balle Koefoed <[e-mail]>

--- FleetStreet 1.22+
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From: Steve McCrystal                                   22-Sep-99 06:48:26
  To: Jan Danielsson                                    23-Sep-99 16:33:18
Subj: It's over. Period.

;
In a msg of <Tuesday September 21 1999>, Jan Danielsson writes to Frits
Spieker:
;
Jan,

 FS>> Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2
 FS>> client. IBM has decided that it is not in their customers
 FS>> interest to release (or have released) another OS/2 client.

 JD> Did IBM say that?

No, actually Brad Wardell said it (almost) and Fritz paraphrased it (NOT
quoted it).

 JD>    Don't belive everything Stardock say.

Or do as I do... don't believe anything Brad Wardell says unless it is
confirmed by at least two *reliable* sources that know what they are talking
about!

 JD>  It's likely that there will not be any new OS/2 client. But saying
 JD> that there never will be one is just plain dumb.

Indeed!

 JD>    It's important to be realistic; I repeat - it's likely that
 JD> there will be no new OS/2 client version. However, do not make
 JD> the mistake of taking whatever comes from Stardock as the
 JD> absolute truth.

Right!  In fact, Dan Casey, President of V.O.I.C.E., posted a note to USENET
yesterday that makes Brad Wardell look like he's practicing up for a position
in the Clinton administration.

It seems, according to RELIABLE sources, that the meeting that Brad babbled
about at length NEVER TOOK PLACE! It was cancelled due to the weather, or some
such, and NO decision has been made, at least no official decision, at this
point.  The best news to come from the posting I mention above is that
Stardock's proposal was not the only one submitted, and others ARE under
consideration!  I find that relevent because while I would love to see a new,
updated Warp client, I would prefer it not come from a GAME supplier who has
already demonstrated their inability to release APPLICATION software that
works, and their complete refusal to fix it!

I currently own, or have owned, 3 Stardock packages (Process Commander, which
doesn't work at all, PMINEWS, which works but is infested with serious bugs,
and I sold Object Desktop 2.0 (a package of bells and whistles that costs more
than Warp 4 does) to someone who just had to have it when it caused problems
far too numerous to list here. All of these packages are essentially
unsupported by Stardock, at least as far as I can determine. In any case,
requests for help making them work have been ignored for *years*!

Yes, I would like to see a new Warp client.  No, I would not like to see one
from Stardock, who refuses to fix what they have ALREADY sold, and who would
likely deep-throat us with their bloated Object Desktop system killer
'add-on', and then refuse to fix what they had broken. I'd much rather the new
client came from some RELIABLE ISV, who would provide at least basic support
in the form of bug fixes.  Fortunately, at least one such reliable ISV has
submitted a proposal.  There may be others.  I can only hope that some of the
powers that be at IBM have spent their money on Stardock software in the past.
 That *should* simplify the selection process!

-[Steve]-

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From: Murray Lesser                                     23-Sep-99 08:01:00
  To: Coridon Henshaw                                   23-Sep-99 08:01:00
Subj: It's not over yet

(Excerpts from a message dated 09-21-99, Coridon Henshaw to Frits
Spieker,  original topic: It's over. Period)

Hi Coridon--

 FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to
 FS> use in the near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed
 FS> to do (and good at that too!), it is falling further behind by the
 FS> day.

CH>I agree.  OS/2 works fine, and will continue to work fine, on '94-era
  > hardware.  Unfortunately, '94-era hardware is rather hard to come
  >by these days.  Sure, it still works with modern hard drives,
  >CDROMs, keyboards, mice (most of them, at least) and floppy drives.
  >But on the other hand, finding supported sound and video hardware
  >very difficult at best.  And forget about support for any of the new
  >and interesting devices such as Firewire DASD and portable MP3
  >players.

    Your cutoff date is a little early.  Warp 4 installed easily on my
vintage-97 ThinkPad 365XD, with a little help from the ThinkPad
utilities that I got from the Device Driver Pak.  In any case, OS/2 was
designed, originally, as an "Industrial Strength" operating system for
commercial users, and (with the exception of a short interval around the
time of the Warp 3 release) large commercial users are still the only
ones in IBM's self-defined market area for it.  I doubt if IBM will ever
again attempt to market OS/2 to the AIHUs or to the computer hobbyists.
My "evidence" is in IBM's current pricing policy for its newer OS/2
software, such as VA PL/I v 2.1 and Warp Server for e-Business; these
are priced considerably above what most inhabitants of this echo are
willing to pay.

    I doubt that any large commercial users want their employees playing
with videos or digital music on company time.  As far as new devices are
concerned, if those users want firewire DASD, drivers will be supplied.
Unlike other operating system vendors I won't name, IBM does not abandon
its large legacy customers!

CH>My poison, you ask?  If Mandrake Linux doesn't work out, I'll be
  >forced to switch to NT.  :-(

    Goodbye.  Those of us who consider OS/2 to be a tool, not a toy,
will stick with it.

    Regards,

        --Murray
<Team PL/I>
___
 * MR/2 2.25 #120 * Never get carried away by a flood of logic

--- Maximus/2 2.02
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Will Honea                                        23-Sep-99 19:28:00
  To: Rob Basler                                        23-Sep-99 19:28:00
Subj: It's over. Period.

Rob Basler wrote to Frits Spieker on 09-22-1999

RB> Well, it is official.  The sky is still falling.  Initial reports
RB> of this unusual phenomena started pouring in to these news offices
RB> at about the time of the release of OS/2 2.0.  Since that time the
RB> sky has continued to fall dramatically, on a regular basis.

Correlate the bursts of chicken little with the release of Microsoft
products - the match in the time domain is interesting.  Let's see, W2K
is due when???

Will Honea <[e-mail]>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Darren Ryall                                      23-Sep-99 12:06:28
  To: Bob Wright                                        23-Sep-99 23:21:15
Subj: Re: Need OS/2

 -=> Quoting Bob Wright to Darren Ryall <=-

 BW> It's definitely down.  There was an announcement there back in the
 BW> Spring that it would be closing.  Reason - everything that was there
 BW> could also be found on the internet... (or on the Toronto BBS, which
 BW> IIRC wasn't closing).

Ah, and I moved in the meantime, so didn't get to see the message.  =p

Guess that I can delete it from the dialing directories that I have then..

──────
116 days, 4 hours, 0 minutes, and 42 seconds until January 1, 2000. Are you
ready for Y2K?
──────

                                   ____________________________
            Looking Forward To    | [Composed at 23:59:24
            A Brave New World,    | on 1999-09-06 (UTC)
                Darren            | using PGPWave v1.22a Gamma]
                                  `""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

... ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: {SMACK} C:\>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Darren Ryall                                      23-Sep-99 12:06:28
  To: Holger Granholm                                   23-Sep-99 23:21:15
Subj: Re: Need OS/2

 -=> Quoting Holger Granholm to Albert Sodyl <=-

 HG> OK, so you don't have money now to pay for the software you intend to
 HG> use.
 HG>
 HG> Do you expect to have the money to pay the fines for using pirate
 HG> (unpaid for) software and to buy that software when the Software
 HG> Piracy Police finds out. You know, you whereabout is very well known by
 HG> your Fido address. You've been talking too much.

Made worse by the fact that in an earlier message, I'd even blatently pointed
this fact out, and offered a way for him to gracefully bow out as well.  I'd
suggested to him that, "maybe" his friend was a licenced dealer, and that his
wording may have been due to the result of poor language skills.  Albert quite
happily strolled past that, completely oblivious to the opening.  If Albert
and his friend were hauled into court at this time, it could be demonstrated
quite easily that Albert had gleefully incriminated himself.

 HG> Your "friend" will be of no help because except fines, he'll probably
 HG> get jailed as well.
 HG>
 HG> Think again about what you are going to do.

It completely depends on if someone notifies CAAST or the SPA or local
authorities... if someone has, then all the evidence exists in the echo
already...

──────
115 days, 15 hours, 11 minutes, and 35 seconds until January 1, 2000. Are you
ready for Y2K?
──────

                                   ____________________________
            Looking Forward To    | [Composed at 12:48:36
            A Brave New World,    | on 1999-09-07 (UTC)
                Darren            | using PGPWave v1.22a Gamma]
                                  `""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

... OS/2: The sane way to jump out of Windows.

--- BBBS/2 v3.50 Flag-E
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From: Tobias Ernst                                      22-Sep-99 23:51:18
  To: Frits Spieker                                     23-Sep-99 23:21:15
Subj: It's over. Period.

Hallo Frits!

 FS> Don't get me wrong: I *love* OS/2 and use it every day. But now IBM
 FS> has finally made it official that there will never again be a new

IBM has not made anything official. Brad Wardell from Stardock has posted his
opinion about what he thinks *some* person at IBM has decided into the OS/2
newsgroups, drawn *his personal* conclusions from this, and afterwards told
the readers to buy ObjectDesktop for Windows. Waht do we conclude from this?

I don't know. What I do now is that there were also IBMers posting that the
meeting Brad was talking about had not taken place because some of the
importand attendees could not get there because of the Hurricane.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say Brad Wardell did not say the truth,
but I want to say that IBM has made nothing official. There has not been a
decision against OS/2, there has just not yet been a decision in favour of it.
Just like in the last two years. And I don't think it is fair from Brad to
spread this over all the news tickers so that all the newspapers will again
write that "OS/2 is dead". This is what is really causing harm, not IBM's
non-decision.

The whole discussion can be followed in the Usenet advocacy areas, I won't
repeat it here. I am also worried about what is happening, but I don't think
it is already time to give up.

If you do think this, well, it is upon yours. There are a lot of LINUX, MAC,
Beos, and Windows Fido areas out there, just go over there and see if you will
find what you are looking for. As for me, I'll continue to use OS/2 as long as
it serves my needs best (and this did not change just because of a Usenet
posting from Brad), and I'll hope to continue to find fellow OS/2 users in
Fidonet. :-)

Viele Grⁿ▀e,
Tobias

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jan Danielsson                                    23-Sep-99 23:10:23
  To: Sean Dennis                                       23-Sep-99 23:48:22
Subj: It's over. Period.

 JD>    If I'm not wrong, you'll say that IBM never really supported OS/2.
 JD> IBM will kill Linux. There's no chance there will be a new OS/2

 SD> That would be a really damned stupid move on IBM's part to kill an
 SD> open source OS.  Do you understand how Linux is designed?  It's not
 SD> a closed system like OS/2.  So, IBM can't kill off Linux.

   (First of all, that wasn't a statement. I see now that I should have quoted
that whole section).

Anyway, you haven't been reading the Usenet OS/2 newgroups, have you?

   Many users who are upset with how IBM treat OS/2 say (with a lot of irony)
that "IBM will kill Linux" (since IBM is now supporting Linux). As you pointed
out, that can not happen. However, some OS/2-users who do not know how Linux
works actuallt think that IBM can kill OS/2. Add that with bitterness over
what IBM is doing toward OS/2, and some users actually will claim that "IBM
will kill Linux".

   So don't worry, I wasn't serious. I was just grouping together a bunch of
things I've read from the "Stardock says OS/2 is dead, so it must be"-people.

 SD> This isn't a flame, this is a fact.

I know, and it wasn't new to me. I just wasn't clear enough.


--- timEd/2 1.10
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Jack Stein                                        21-Sep-99 18:30:10
  To: Murray Lesser                                     24-Sep-99 10:24:12
Subj: OS/2 Support

Murray Lesser wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

JS>I can't agree with you here Roy. Both the home, and
  >business (large and small) is totally domonated by MS
  >products.  You would be hard pressed to locate a business that was
  >not running MS OS's.

 ML>     Check on what OS your bank ATM is running under.  Most
 ML> of them still use OS/2 (some of them OS/2 1.3!).  Banks that
 ML> have changed to WinNT have tended to regret it.

Check out what they are running every where else in the bank, other than the
ATM machine.  They run almost 100% MS OS's.

JS>When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when
JS>the fun, and market manipulation began.  IBM was in charge,
JS>and they chose MS to run the software end of the business.
JS>That has not changed, and the result of course is the worlds
JS>worst OS dominating the home and business market.

 ML>     IBM did not "choose" MS.  IBM offered three operating
 ML> systems with the original PC.  There was MS DOS, based on a
 ML> purchased 16-bit operating system cloned from DR CP/M; DR's
 ML> CPM/86; and a useless OS that could only run Pascal (UCSD).
 ML> All were at extra cost; no software came with the original
 ML> PC's.  Bill Gates was smart enough to price MS DOS at $50,
 ML> presumably since he was sure that sales would be very large.
 ML>  The powers that be at DR wanted $200 for theirs and UCSD's
 ML> system was useless for anyone who wanted to do anything but
 ML> write their own programs in Pascal!  It is not hard to
 ML> figure out which operating system won that battle :-).

The way I understand it is IBM sold MSDOS for $50, but they sold DR's CP/M for
$300.  DR was pissed about it, but nothing they could do about it.  IBM did
"choose" MS to do there OS, they contracted with Bill Gates, and he didn't
even own an OS.  He bought "DOS" after IBM (who had ties with Gates family)
signed the contract.

 ML> I have no love for Microsoft's business practices (the only MS
 ML> software I have on my system is BASIC PDS v 7.1, vintage
 ML> 1991, that will produce 16-bit "native OS/2" programs), but
 ML> Gates was the smartest software artist (as far as seeing
 ML> where PC's were going) at the time.  I give him credit for
 ML> that, even if you don't.

Gates was not all that of an "artist".  He got a contract that no one else on
earth could have gotten with the only game in town.  No matter who got the
contract, they were going to dominate the market, whether they knew it or not.

JS>The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM
JS>likes it that way.  Hard to promote a product when the
JS>company that sells it doesn't want anyone to use it.

 ML>     IBM gave up on trying to sell OS/2 to the AIHU years
 ML> ago, as OS/2 became too complex for the couch-potato
 ML> mentality to handle.

OS/2 is no more "complex" to use than WIN, in fact, it's easier actually.

 ML> It is now a purely commercial system as far as IBM is
 ML> concerned, and IBM will continue to support it (not _market_ it
 ML> aggressively) as long as an appreciable number of IBM's major
 ML> customers continue to use it.

IBM never supported OS/2.  They developed it, but never attempted to get
anyone to actually use it.  When people used it anyway, they were miffed, and
when a lot started to use it, the aggresively marketed against it.  About the
only marketing IBM did with OS/2 was to kill it, before it killed MS.

 ML>     I don't do, and never have done, Windows!  Personally, I
 ML> am very pleased that none of my relatives nor friends run
 ML> OS/2.  I joyfully tell them that I can't help them when they
 ML> run into Windows trouble :-).

That is a bonus for people like you and I.  The down side is it's a bear to
upgrade your system.  I'm in the market (10 years on the same computer is not
the issue), my kids need there own, and I want it to be OS/2 compatable, they
MUST have WIN for school work.  It's a bear trying to figure out what to buy.
I want to go to best buy and just get one off the floor, like everyone else
does, but, alas, who knows if it'll run OS/2 correctly.

 ML>     I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home
 ML> systems, even if it is never updated!  If new applications I
 ML> may decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2,
 ML> I will write my own.  It isn't any problem for me to avoid
 ML> using hardware that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned
 ML> long ago never to be the first kid on the block with the
 ML> latest computer gadgets or software.  I may never update my
 ML> present hardware unless it dies :-).  If I last long enough,
 ML> I may well be the last noncommercial OS/2 user around!
 ML> (Will Honea may outlast me!)

I may outlast you also.  You are not alone in this game, but we are few and
far between.

 ML>     To find out what IBM is doing with OS/2, you should
 ML> subscribe to the IBM e-mail marketing newsletter "WARP FM"
 ML> rather than continuing to rant about what IBM is not doing
 ML> for you.  IBM is running a business, not a religion.

Sure, but their product is perfect for the home consumer, and business
consumer.  A junior achievement class in 8th grade could have sold OS/2 to the
masses with just 1/10 of the money IBM spent on LOTUS.  I suspect their
business is more monkey business than real business, and they, MS and INTEL
are monkeying around with things that adversly affect the computer user at
large, and thats me.  I'm pissed about it, but fortunately for me, it's just a
hobby.  I don't really care all that much.  I can get along myself just like
you, in fact, it's actually more fun I reckon.

 ML> There is no reason for IBM not to support WinNT if that is where
 ML> money is to be made.

There was big money to be made with OS/2, IF IBM wanted to go for it, but they
didn't.  Why they didn't is speculation for people like me, and when I add 2
and 2, I don't like what I see, or have seen over past 15 years.

 ML> But the big difference between IBM and MS (which the commercial
 ML> MS users will eventually learn to their discomfort) is that IBM
 ML> supports its legacy customers.

Yeah, but at a big price.  MS supports it's customers also, they just pay for
the same thing over and over again, and the price is about the same either
way.

IBM provides the hardware and the service, MS provides the software, and INTEL
provides the chips.  That has made all 3 very rich, and they aim to keep it
that way, and the customer loses.  That's how it is when a huge cartel holds a
monopoly on the market.  "Screw the customer, we're making fast, easy cash"
Information is controlled by ZIFF-DAVIS, and the DOJ is controlled by cash.
Everyone WINS but the consumer, and he doesn't have a clue what hit him, or
that he has even been hit.  The perfect crime.

                    Jack
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From: Jack Stein                                        21-Sep-99 19:07:29
  To: Darren Hamilton                                   24-Sep-99 10:24:12
Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc

Darren Hamilton wrote in a message to Jonathan De Boyne Pollar:

 DH> Is the 32-bit command interpreter specific to OS/2 v4.0?

No, I run it with OS/2 3.0 and no fixpaks, other than a few updated drivers
from FP 17.

 DH> I tried the DATE /N command with OS/2 v3.0 (FP 40 and 32-bit
 DH> CMD.EXE file) and received an error message:

 DH> SYS1036: The system cannot accept the date entered.

DATE /N is not supposed to have a date entered to begin with, but I suspect
you are getting this error msg from the OS/2 DATE command, not with JdBP's
date command.  I don't get an error msg even if I use the /N and a date after
it.

OS2F:\BIN\TAU\OS2\BIN>date /?
DATE   Display or set the current date
Copyright (c) 1999 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard.  All Rights Reserved.

Usage: DATE [/?] [/N] [/L] [/Fformat] [date]

       /N  Do not prompt for a new date
       /L  Display the date in the current country's local format.
           By default, the date will be displayed in ISO 8601 standard form.
03:13:11 pm
OS2F:\BIN\TAU\OS2\BIN>


                                              Jack
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From: Jack Stein                                        22-Sep-99 08:56:18
  To: Frits Spieker                                     24-Sep-99 10:24:12
Subj: Re: It's over. Period.

following up a message from Charles Gaefke to Frits Spieker:

FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to use in
t
FS> near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed to do (and good
a
FS> that too!), it is falling further behind by the day. Trying to install
Warp
FS> a modern day system is a pain in the proverbial donkey and it is getting
ha
FS> and harder to find new hardware that is supported.

How about an alternative OS/2 OS?  Wouldn't that be neat?  Sort of the OS/2
version of LINUX.  Oh, and never say never!

                                              Jack
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From: Frits Spieker                                     23-Sep-99 20:41:00
  To: Charles Gaefke                                    24-Sep-99 11:13:29
Subj: It's over. Period.

 CG>     I know I'm going to be using OS/2 for a -long- time.  Windows just
 CG> plain doesn't cut it.  I use it for games and burning CDs.


Don't get me wrong. I will be using OS/2 for quite some time to come as well,
but I do not plan on being the "Amiga user" of the 2010's. (In stating "See, I
still use OS/2 so it isn't dead.)

... Never lean forward to push an invisible object.

Vriendelijke groet,
// Frits //

--- GoldEd/2|IM|FMail/2|O/T
 * Origin: BrainPark3, Rotterdam NL. ZOOM VFP28.8 (2:286/115)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Cyrill Vakhneyev                                  24-Sep-99 09:59:19
  To: Torsten Balle Koefoed                             24-Sep-99 12:15:29
Subj: MP3 setup

Hello Torsten!

16 Sep 99 21:44, Torsten Balle Koefoed wrote to Nick Andre:
 TK> For MP3 encoding the best choice is BladeEncoder, which you'll find at
 TK> http://bladeenc.home.ml.org/.
 TK> There's also the old port of the Fraunhofer L3enc, but the sound
 TK> quality does not match with BladeEncoder. I don't know if it's faster,
 TK> though.
    BTW really thing is LAME for OS/2.

Bye!
Cyrill                                [Team OS/2 CV004]

... Windows?  Homey don't play that!
---
 * Origin: I feel like Popeye!  (2:5053/7.1)

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