General OS/2 Discussion (Fidonet) Saturday, 18-Sep-1999 to Friday, 24-Sep-1999 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: paul marwick 16-Sep-99 08:48:01 To: Roy J. Tellason 18-Sep-99 04:56:11 Subj: File Managers Hi Roy Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Jack Stein: RJT> Actually I have both versions running here. And yes, even the OS/2 RJT> version is a little rough when it comes to long filenames, it RJT> doesn't display the whole name. And it barfs on bigger than 2G RJT> partitions, as well. InspectA displays long filenames without too many problems. In terms of the normal disply, it depends on how it is set up and there is a limit to the number of characters that it will display. A trick for a long filename is to ivoke the FILES.BBS edit function - place the cursor over the long filename and press insert. Inspect will then prompt for a description to whatever the filename is. I've not seen it run out of display characters in that mode.. regards, paul --- FleetStreet 1.24.1 * Origin: madHouse Inc - Brisbane, QLD (3:640/820) 280/801 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Leonard Erickson 17-Sep-99 11:48:07 To: Roy J. Tellason 18-Sep-99 04:56:11 Subj: Character sets -=> Quoting Roy J. Tellason to Murray Lesser <=- RJT> Murray Lesser wrote in a message to Leonard Erickson: ML> My first "ASCII" computer was a fully-populated CP/M machine ML> (64K RAM), vintage 1979. RJT> Wow. In those days that was a lot of ram! ML> All my previous programming experience was on either 6-bit or ML> 8-bit machines, none of which used any version of ASCII. RJT> What used six bits? Well, I don't know what *he* was using, but I learned assembly on an ancient Honeywell that used 6-bit words. I don'ty recall how much RAM it had, but some years back I had occasional to loook for the "hardware manual" I still had from that course. The *maximum* it could have was 32k! --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: Shadowshack (1:105/51) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Murray Lesser 18-Sep-99 06:41:00 To: Kenneth Abrams 18-Sep-99 06:41:00 Subj: Backup (Excerpts from a message dated 09-15-99, Kenneth Abrams to Murray Lesser) Hi Kenneth-- KA>So, tell me, how do *you* squeeze a 3-4M ZIP file onto a 1.44M >floppy, eh? I don't have any occasion to do so. I would copy such files to a 100 MB Zip diskette. If you don't have a Zip Drive, there are "native OS/2" utilities that will copy a large file to a spanned flock of floppies. IIRC, one such is a "freeware" IBM EWS program. Also, there is the latest version of PKZIP/PKUNZIP for OS/2 that will span a set of floppies as it compresses the original files. ML> Since the backups are records of current contents of my hard ML> drive, there is no problem in knowing which directory the original was ML> stored on, since it still exists. KA>Unless, of course, you foolishly wipe out an entire >directory and then wish to "restore" it. My experience with my one >time use was that until *I* remembered what the original path was >and specified it, all I got was errors that seemed to imply the >backup was bad. Since I use command-line utilities for most file maintenance, I would find it very difficult to inadvertently wipe out both the contents of a directory and the directory, in a single operation. But if I were to do so, I would probably realize what I had done after a very short interval, so I would remember the name of the top directory. One of the virtues of RESTORE is that if you use the "/S" switch, you can restore all the subdirectories of the named original directory in the same operation that restores that directory. This interchange has been a good example of why one should not generalize on one's own practices to apply to another person. I apologize for attempting to answering your original post to me. Regards, --Murray ___ * MR/2 2.25 #120 * There, that will do until a REAL explanation comes along. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: John Hicks 18-Sep-99 13:18:00 To: Lee Lawson 18-Sep-99 11:24:17 Subj: Compaq + OS2 Thanks Lee for the reply. I'll try installing warp 3 again sometime when I have the necessary disk space available. Thanks again. --- * Origin: RemoteAccess (64-3-3493236) V32B V42B CHCH,New Zealand (3:770/116) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Kenneth Duke 17-Sep-99 22:27:02 To: Holger Granholm 18-Sep-99 11:24:17 Subj: Re: BGFAX reg *** Quoting Holger Granholm from a message to Paul Hildebrandt *** PH>I've tried to register BGFAX by internet but haven't recieved a PH>reply. Does anyone know how to get a reg code for this program? Just Email the author... thats the easiest thing to do.. He takes just about any form of payment... BJ is a great guy... I've had a registered copy for over 6 years now.. bgfax@blkbox.com is his email address.. --- Telegard/2 v3.09.g2-sp3/mL * Origin: telnet://pcnashville.dhs.org (1:116/158) 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: LEE ARONER 17-Sep-99 00:03:00 To: MURRAY LESSER 18-Sep-99 11:24:17 Subj: Character sets ML> If you read my original post to George, rather than his excerpts > from it in his post to me, you would know that I stated that ASCII was > (and is) a seven-bit code. It was embedded in 8-bit media (primarily > mag tape) in an additional ANSI Standard in (IIRC) 1965, after IBM had > announced its family of 8-bit machines: S/360. The first desktop > computers used ASCII as a 7-bit code embedded in an 8-bit character set, > for reasons I have never understood. As I said in my original post, the > "upper 128" (heretofore unused) character codes were added by the IBM PC > designers in 1981, who called it "extended ASCII." AFAIK, there is no > official standard for an 8-bit code based on ASCII. There is an ANSI standard, I believe... LRA -- SPEED 2.01 #2720: There is no XXXXXXX place for censorship! --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Memory Alpha - (253) 859-6200 (1:343/311) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Gord Hannah 17-Sep-99 08:39:00 To: Roy J. Tellason 18-Sep-99 11:24:17 Subj: File Managers Hi Roy, hope you are having a nice day! :-) 16-Sep-99 00:51:10, Roy J. Tellason wrote to paul marwick Subject: File Managers RJT> FED025S.ZIP 190771 09-15-99* [ ] Fast Editor Lite - written as a RJT> replacement for Qedit, includes source RJT> Anybody want it? Feel free... Send me a copy please Roy. Hope this helps. Keep us posted. We are a fine board trying to make it better. http://www.pris.bc.ca/ghannah ghannah@pris.bc.ca Cheers! Gord Hannah -=Team OS/2=- --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at Test and Support Site * Origin: Marsh BBS (c) Dawson Creek BC Canada 1-250-786-7921 (1:17/23.1) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Nick Andre 18-Sep-99 02:50:15 To: All 18-Sep-99 11:24:17 Subj: Mp3's Hi! I need a freeware/open source MP3 encoder (RECORDER!!!) for OS/2 Warp 3. My stereo equipment is hooked through the LINE-IN port on my Soundblaster pro, so I'm in DESPERATE need of *ANY* utility that would capture from the line-in port direct to MP3 format. Most utilities I've come across require EMX or some other DLL which I don't have, so I'm preferring *FULLY WORKING* utilities please! :) I don't have Internet, but am willing to FREQ from anybody who can help. TTYL, Nick. --- DB A3000sl/000967 * Origin: Hidden Obsessions (1:252/501) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Alan Hess 16-Sep-99 21:39:28 To: all 18-Sep-99 11:24:17 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can the files in the two be combined somehow? *adh* --- Msged/2 TE 05 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Holger Granholm 17-Sep-99 21:49:00 To: Mike Ruskai 18-Sep-99 15:11:23 Subj: Objects In a message dated 09-15-99, Mike Ruskai said to Holger Granholm: HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment. MR>The most likely reason I can see for that is that your motherboard MR>will only cache 16MB worth of RAM. OS/2 used memory from the top MR>down, so putting 32MB in would make OS/2 use 16MB worth of uncached MR>RAM first. Hi Mike, That's the conclusion I have arrived at too. The MB manual doesn't specify this parameter. Have a nice day, Holger ___ * MR/2 2.26 * Alzheimers advantage: New friends every day. --- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Bat Lang 17-Sep-99 16:42:18 To: All 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: Death knell for client version? ==================================== From: "Brad Wardell" Subject: Judgement Day results Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:46:45 -0400 In 1998, Stardock took the position that if IBM had no current or projected plans for a new fat OS/2 client, that it was in the interests of OS/2 users and the computing community in general that a third-party should work with IBM to license OS/2 technology on an OEM basis and make a new client available. To that end, late last year, Stardock prepared a business plan and opened negotiations with IBM. The wheels of bureacracy grind slowly, but eventually it was up to "IBM" (executive level) to make the ultimate call on proceeding. For the past 6 months, Stardock and IBM have been working closely together in hammering out the details of an OS/2 client. Everything from potential names down to which minute components would or would not be included. These meetings included multiple in-person meetings with IBM staff and executives here at Stardock's office complex in Livonia Michigan. With an agreement in principle in place, the last major hurdle was this week in which the IBMers in favor of our proposal (mostly in Austin) presented their case to IBM as a whole. The call has been made -- there will be no new client from Stardock and IBM has indicated that they have no plans for an OS/2-based client of their own. Though IBM indicated Stardock had the strongest proposal, they have decided that it is currently not in IBM's or their customer's interests to license any current OS/2 technology on an OEM-basis. There was never any discord between IBM and Stardock over financials, technical viability, target market, or the like. IBM has simply finally made the decision that a new OS/2 client would be in conflict with their strategic directions. Stardock would like to extend a special thanks to all the IBMers (and in particular Ken Christopher and Timothy Sipples) who went above and beyond the call in working with us and going to bat inside IBM. Remember when you meet folks like them, who are and have been intimately involved with OS/2, that their hands may be just as tied as yours when the IBM Corporation as a whole sets policy. Everything that could be done was done. Brad Brad Wardell Product Manager: Object Desktop & The Corporate Machine http://www.stardock.com ========================== Remember, I'm just the messenger! }^: Good Modeming! /\oo/\ ... FidoNet-Mail: 1:382/92 or E-mail: Bat.Lang@92.ima.infomail.com --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: Rendezvous!! 8gigs_20000files_500echoareas 512-303-1324 (1:382/92) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Bat Lang 18-Sep-99 01:23:01 To: Gord Hannah 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: File Managers -=> Quoting Gord Hannah to Jack Stein, [16 Sep 99 20:11:18] <=- GH> Maybe we should think about starting another net called oldfarts net GH> and use our old files and systems to run it. :-)) If your dad was 67 when he got his first computer and it had W95 on it, then you're young enough to be my son! You certainly wouldn't qualify for an oldfart. {^; Good Modeming! /\oo/\ ... FidoNet-Mail: 1:382/92 or E-mail: Bat.Lang@92.ima.infomail.com --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: Rendezvous!! 8gigs_20000files_500echoareas 512-303-1324 (1:382/92) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Andy Roberts 16-Sep-99 18:47:27 To: Jack Stein 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: File Managers Jack Stein, 14-Sep-99 19:36:59, Jack Stein wrote to Andy Roberts JS> Andy Roberts wrote in a message to Jack Stein: Subject: File Managers AR>>> It's not too late to switch to FC/2. JS>> Before I consider that, does FC/2 handle full REXX support in JS>> it's menu command yet? Try it and see for yourself. AR>> Oh wait a moment, I see what you are trying to do. You want it AR>> to Create a DeskTop Object of some highlighted file. Yes that is AR>> already hard coded into FC/2 Alt-F6. JS> OK, I was just giving ONE example. As for hard coding, nope, no JS> good. You notice that in this example, I changed some of the JS> parameters, for example, any objectid I create has "OS2C_" JS> prefixed the the OBJECTID. You can add "OS2C_" on the fly with FC/2 Alt-F6. JS> Now maybe you don't care about this, but I do, and I'm sure there are JS> things you do care about that you can't do without full REXX support in JS> the menu system. I don't know about that. I do everything with CMD files. I fill in my blank Icon template and name it the same as the CMD file. Then FC/2 Alt-F6 nicely puts that on my DeskTop, where I drag it to it's permanent home. If I have used REXX in the FC.MNU, then it because mentally I don't separate REXX from any other typical OS/2 command. JS> Does FC/2 Alt-F6 even create an OBJECTID for the Icon it creates? I guess so. If I have a special Icon then it uses it. If I don't have a prepared Icon then it uses the OS/2 default. JS> That is a BIG issue with me, since I control lots of things with the JS> OBJECTID? Here I go showing my ignorance again. Just learned to use Drag'n'Drop for the 1st time last month, and now ObjectID. What do you use ObjectID for? And why is that an advantage? JS> There are lots of scripts I use that are perfect for the menu, things I JS> use over and over, whether REXX is involved or not. It just gives total JS> flexability, something I always prefer over limitations. I don't recall JS> the exact capabilites of FC/2's menu system, does it even support JS> non-rexx scripts (batch files) Sure AR>> Sheesh.. You mean you have to put all that stuff in a menu. AR>> You've been working too hard. You better get FC/2 quick. AR>> (again) JS> You would never believe how many CMD files I have on this JS> system... Oh yes I would, since I have hundreds of CMD files here. JS> your right though, I spent too much time playing with all that stuff, Take a little time to play with FC/2. I took a little time to glance at OS2C when you and Bat Lang said it was the best many years ago. In the end I registered FC/2. I'm just trying to get even. JS> I'm off to a new hobby now... billiards.... my new passion... Not a JS> digital bit in sight:-Oh, the guy running the league had a computer JS> crash... they sent him to me... I of course told him I don't know JACK JS> about WIN... Rack'em! Ugh Oh, we have a hussler in here. Thanks and Good Luck, Andy Roberts andy@shentel.net --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at * Origin: OS/2: penthouse. DOS: poorhouse. Windows: outhouse. (1:109/921.1) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: George White 13-Sep-99 09:44:00 To: Leonard Erickson 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: Character sets Hi Leonard, You wrote to me about my message to Murray Lesser: LE> -=> Quoting George White to Murray Lesser <=- LE> ML> Nowadays, the Average Idiot Home User hasn't heard of any character LE> ML>code other than ASCII, if even that :-(. As you well know, the stupid LE> ML>collating sequence of ASCII is due to the great desire of AT&T to pack LE> ML>everything they thought anybody would ever want into seven bits, while LE> ML>letting the presence of a single bit differentiate between lower- and LE> ML>upper-case alpha characters (a desirable characteristic only for fully LE> ML>mechanical terminals). LE>ASCII *was* defined in 1963 (or was it 68?) you know. It was originally LE>intended as a standard for moving data between different brands of LE>mainframes (which all had their *own* character sets back then) I hope Murray sees this, I wasn't interested in this aspect of the message. As you have raised it with me, according to a reference I have here (C Programmers Guide to Serial Communications by Joe Campbell), the official title of the ASCII specification is "ANSI Standard X3.4-1977 (Revised 1983), Code for Information Interchange", so from this I believe it's more recent than the dates you remember. LE>Also, that uppercase/lower case distinction being on bit was important LE>for programmers writing *tight* code. I used to use that single bit LE>trick in programs back when 16k or DRAM cost several hundred dollars. It certainly can make life easier for the programmer, and I've taken advantage of it in my own code :-). LE> ML>Making sense (from a computer-architectural LE> ML>standpoint) has never been a requirement for standards committees! (I LE> ML>have a great dislike, based on many years of past participation, of most LE> ML>computer-related standardizing activities. The standards committee LE> ML>members seem to be more interested in showing how smart they are than in LE> ML>following Euripides' "legacy" law of computer architecture: "The gods LE> ML>visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.") LE> GW> I think of the ANSI screen control sequences as a classic example of LE> GW> that "cleverness", even though they are really DEC terminal control LE> GW> sequences. LE>They are derived from DEC control sequences for the VT-52. The ESC was LE>turned into ESC[ so that DEC wouldn't have an unfair advantage in the LE>market. The VT-100 came *after* the X3.64 standard was defined. That counts in my book as "really". just changing "ESC" to "ESC[" does nothing to change the basis of the control sequences. How a change as simple to incorporate as that can be considered as removing an "unfair advantage" when Joe Campbell's (Op Cit) description of writing the code to interpret it (an input driver) is "a Herculean labor" (it's an American book and I'm retaining the American spelling used therein). The full quote on programming for ANSI is: "From the programmer's point of view, writing a driver for ANSI output is slightly more difficult than for other kinds of terminals because ANSI expresses all numeric parameters as ASCII digits instead of binary numbers. But if ANSI output is not particularly difficult, writing code for an ANSI input driver is a Herculean labor. Because the identifying code (the "Final") occurs last or next to last (if an Intermediate is present), there is no way to ascertain at the beginning of a control sequence how long it will be. Remember, there may be a variable number of ASCII numeric parameters and/or selective parameters. If necessary parameters are missing from the control string, defaults must be supplied. All input from the CSI through the Final (or Final-Intermediate combination) must therefor be buffered, then parsed into functions and parameters." LE> ML> As to why the PC architecture included the use of ASCII as an LE> ML>internal character code: since I had nothing to do with the IBM PC LE> ML>development, I have only some conjectures. The PC was developed by a LE> ML>semi-independent group in Florida. The then upper management of IBM LE> ML>didn't believe it was ever going to go anywhere, so probably didn't care LE> GW> Original estimate was 250,000 units over 5 years according to an LE> GW> article in Byte in 1990. It should have been dead, buried, and history LE> GW> by now... LE> ML>that the original perpetrators were using their 8-bit version of ASCII LE> ML>instead of EBCDIC! The character-code choice may have had something to LE> ML>do with the fact that the 7-bit version of ASCII (embedded in eight LE> ML>bits) was being used in most desktop machines up to that date. (My CP/M LE> ML>machine, vintage 1979, used a so-called ASCII terminal that had no way LE> ML>to input the high-order eighth bit.) Only some word processors of the LE> ML>time used that bit for anything. LE>Excuse me, but you've made the same mistake 3 times so far. There is no LE>such thing as "8-bit" ASCII nor a "the 7-bit version of ASCII". ASCII LE>is *defined* as a 7-bit set. Any 8-bit set with the lower 128 LE>characters matching ASCII is an "extended ASCII" and *not* any sort of LE>official variant of ASCII. I haven't made any mistakes I'm aware of, Murray might have but I'll let him defend himself - he's quite well able to. I am well aware that ASCII is a purely 7 bit code, and that the normal 8 bit IBM PC character set includes _most_ (but definitely not all) of the 7 bit ASCII character set. I've been programming using ASCII since before the IBM PC was even thought of... LE>It *can* be a standard in its own right, such as the various ISO LE>8859-xx character sets. Agree totally, but again they are definitely _NOT_ ASCII. LE> ML>(to some extent) "upward compatible" from CP/M. IMO, the PC fathers did LE> ML>the best that they could to make ASCII barely usable, supplying both the LE> ML>missing "upper" 128 characters and also text-mode graphic symbols for LE> ML>the otherwise useless (by then) ASCII control characters. LE>ASCII *has* no "upper 128". Sort this out with Murray, I totally agree with you. LE>And by the time the PC was being designed it was quite clear that the LE>32-126 range had to be the same as ASCII for a machine to do well in LE>the market, and that the more common control chars had to be supported. LE>*Why* they made DEL a printable char I have no idea. I don't have either... George ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Study the past, if you would divine the future. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Air Applewood, OS/2 Gateway to Essex 44-1279-792300 (2:257/609) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: David Noon 15-Sep-99 19:25:00 To: Adam Cameron 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: win-os2 and AIM In a message dated 09-12-99, Adam Cameron said to David Noon about "win-os2 and AIM" Hi Adam, AC> I have a Windows 3.1 version of AIM (AOL Instant Messagener). But, it AC> crashes all the time and completely locks up the system. AC> Warp 4 with FP9. Anything I can change to fix this? DN> When it crashes, press Alt+Esc [no, not Ctl+Esc] to get back to the DN> WPS. AC>The crash causes the entire computer to lock up, mouse AC>locks up, display locks up, everything. Are you running it in a full-screen or seamless WIN-OS/2 session? Regards Dave ___ * MR/2 2.25 #353 * "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think." - de la Bruyere --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Air Applewood, OS/2 Gateway to Essex 44-1279-792300 (2:257/609) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 14-Sep-99 18:47:16 To: George White 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: Character sets GW> "From the programmer's point of view, writing a driver for ANSI GW> output is slightly more difficult than for other kinds of terminals GW> because ANSI expresses all numeric parameters as ASCII digits instead GW> of binary numbers. But if ANSI output is not particularly difficult, GW> writing code for an ANSI input driver is a Herculean labor. Because GW> the identifying code (the "Final") occurs last or next to last (if an GW> Intermediate is present), there is no way to ascertain at the GW> beginning of a control sequence how long it will be. Remember, there GW> may be a variable number of ASCII numeric parameters and/or selective GW> parameters. If necessary parameters are missing from the control GW> string, defaults must be supplied. All input from the CSI through the GW> Final (or Final-Intermediate combination) must therefor be buffered, GW> then parsed into functions and parameters." Hence AVATAR ... ¯ JdeBP ® --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 15-Sep-99 20:56:04 To: Andy Roberts 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: Announcing the OS/2 Command Line Utilities version 2.0 BW>> The one I found on Hobbes looked like this BW>> Os2Clu02.Zip 99-09-02 589,012 AR> That probably got date touched somewhere. It was modified as I uploaded it to Hobbes. There is no way to preserve the date and time stamps of a file when uploaded using FTP. ¯ JdeBP ® --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 15-Sep-99 21:25:06 To: Murray Lesser 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: TOUCH ML> As I understand it, Jonathan's original TOUCH utility used the ML> "system" to correct the user-provided file date (if invalid) to what ML> the system thinks the next valid date might be, so the fact that the ML> system thinks 2100 is a leap year could have a deleterious effect if ML> you are counting on that program to do your thinking for you that far ML> in advance! (I gather, from his announcement, that this has been ML> corrected in his latest edition.) There was never anything to correct. TOUCH passes dates and times as specified on its command line to the operating system exactly as they stand, and always has done. The plain fact of the matter is that it was when testing TOUCH that I discovered that the operating system, or more specifically the filesystem drivers, actually modifies the dates and times that are passed in a DosSetPathInfo() call in certain cases, and the actual date and time that is set on the file is thus not the value that was passed to the operating system in the system call. The FAT filesystem driver silently translates all years beyond 2099 to the year 2099, but is quite happy with nonsense dates like the 31st of February. The HPFS filesystem driver has a completely different set of bugs, on the other hand. It silently converts nonsense dates like the 31st of February to the nearest real date, but this code contains a bug in that it doesn't know that the year 2100 is not a leap year, and allows the date 2100-02-29 to be set on a file or directory. ¯ JdeBP ® --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 16-Sep-99 18:35:17 To: Cyrill Vakhneyev 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: DIGCLOCK/ANACLOCK CV> JFYI: Your clocks, both digital and analog, shows me time in China CV> I think :) TZ is set correctly. Setting TZ is not all that you have to do. VIEW OS2CLU02 RTC ¯ JdeBP ® --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 16-Sep-99 18:40:26 To: Darren Hamilton 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc DH> I find it hard to believe that *every* programmer is querying the RTC DH> rather than using the DosQuerySysInfo API function. You may find it hard to believe, but it's nevertheless largely true. They use DosGetDateTime(), which is a function that reads the "raw" hardware clock, rather than DosQuerySysInfo() which reads the 64-bit clock provided by the OS/2 kernel. This is a "DOS think" legacy. Application and compiler library developers used to read the RTC hardware pretty much directly in DOS, and the habit carried over into OS/2 application and compiler library development. The irony is that this particular piece of "DOS think" even infects development that otherwise has a strong UNIX background. EMX C++, with its roots in GNU compilers and UNIX traditions, would have been the prime candidate for getting timekeeping right on 32-bit OS/2. This is because 32-bit OS/2 keeps time in pretty much the same way as UNIX does. But even EMX C++ uses DosGetDateTime() to read the hardware clock, alas! ( I did suggest at the beginning of this year that some enterprising EMX C++ hacker patch the EMX runtime library so that it works properly, by ripping out the DOS think code and putting in code to do things correctly. They could start with the GNU libc code and work from there. The irony of EMX C++ is that the GNU libc code for handling time, which EMX C++ *doesn't* use, would actually pretty much work properly and do the right thing on 32-bit OS/2 with little alteration. ) This whole subject was discussed at length in this echo at the beginning of this year. I won't go over it all again in this message, but will mention one thing: You can compromise between having the OS/2 kernel keep time correctly and the broken applications that were written with the "DOS Think" mindset. Simply keep your hardware RTC in local time and set your TZ environment variable so that it indicates that your timezone is always offset 0 hours from UTC. (For example, for Eastern Australian Standard Time use a TZ environment variable value of, say, "EST0EDT0".) The OS2CLU02 commands, and everything else that uses 32-bit OS/2 as it was actually designed to work, will calculate local time correctly, and the broken "DOS think" applications will also calculate local time correctly. Of course, there are several undesirable side-effects of this compromise: You won't be able to run multiple programs in different timezones concurrently, as one *can* do if 32-bit OS/2's timekeeping mechanism is used as it was actually designed; file and directory timestamps won't be maintained in UTC and thus be portable from system to system independent of timezone (as they should be -- this is another little understood facet of 32-bit OS/2's timekeeping); and *no* program will be able to calculate UTC correctly, so you will not be able to use UTC at all should you desire to do so. However, if you are prepared to live with the above side effects, this compromise should be acceptable. One more thing ... ¯ JdeBP ® --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 16-Sep-99 18:40:27 To: Darren Hamilton 18-Sep-99 16:01:26 Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc DH> This includes OS/2 Warp v3.0 (FP 40) time and date functions, [...] You have something to look forward to. Not only do the DATE and TIME commands supplied with the 32-bit CMD command interpreter display the current timezone and support the /N switch (which IBM's documentation describes, you will find, but which the 16-bit CMD does not actually implement), but they *also* operate correctly when it comes to timezone support and the TZ environment variable. So, too, incidentally, do the various date and time sequences in the PROMPT environment variable. Cut and pasted from another window: [C:\]ver CMD 0.1.14 OS/2 2.40.0 [C:\]set TZ TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1 [C:\]prompt $D $T $u [$P] Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]date /n Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 +0100 Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]set TZ=EST-10EDT,M10.5,M3.5 Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 EST [C:\]date /n Current date is: Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 +1000 Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:02 EST [C:\]set TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1 Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 BST [C:\]date Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 +0100 Enter a new date: ¯ JdeBP ® --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Scott Jones 17-Sep-99 10:40:17 To: Roy J. Tellason 18-Sep-99 21:50:00 Subj: Re: File Managers -=> Roy J. Tellason wrote to Bat Lang <=- RJT> On that subject, is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files, RJT> other than actually making the floppies? You can always use the dskxtrct utility to extract the *.DSK image to your HD (as with the FP images). Scott Jones (sjones@crosswinds.net) ... The box said, "Requires Windows 95 or Better", so I bought OS/2. --- MultiMail/OS/2 v0.29 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Russell Tiedt 17-Sep-99 18:09:25 To: All 18-Sep-99 21:50:00 Subj: StarOffice? Hi, A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I would like to install it but I seem unable to get a registration code from the "stardivision.com" web site for some reason. Does anyone have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it. Go well, and God bless, Russell --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+ * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: MIKE RUSKAI 17-Sep-99 23:57:00 To: MARK ELLIS 18-Sep-99 23:29:02 Subj: Re: Objects Some senseless babbling from Mark Ellis to Mike Ruskai on 09-17-99 08:19 about Re: Objects... [snip] MR> Memory is quite cheap these days. I spent over $1200 on the 32MB I put in MR> that 486, but I recently spent less than $100 for an additional 128MB for MR> this machine. ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) 4meg 30 ME> pin simms around these parts. I've been buying online since before the Internet craze started. You can always find cheaper prices via mail order, and can hunt for the best one. I just did a quick check, and 32MB of RAM in 4MB 30-pin SIMMs can be had for less than $50. That's US dollars, of course, though I don't think your Canuck money is down that far in comparison these days :) Mike Ruskai thannymeister@yahoo.com ... Be careful what you ask for. You never know who's lurking. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE! WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: MIKE RUSKAI 18-Sep-99 00:00:00 To: EDDY THILLEMAN 18-Sep-99 23:29:02 Subj: Objects Some senseless babbling from Eddy Thilleman to Holger Granholm on 09-17-99 00:07 about Objects... ET> Hello Holger, ET> 14 Sep 99 20:58, Holger Granholm wrote to Mike Ruskai: HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment. HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds HG> with 32 Mb RAM. ET> I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA cards ET> can't address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA SCSI-cards. ET> I've 128 MB RAM and my Netscape v4.04 loads in 7 seconds (I timed it). It takes 17 seconds here for version 4.61, which is a real dog on startup. This is with a PII/233 with 192MB of RAM. The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or not they perform bus mastering DMA. Since ISA slots only have a 24-bit DMA available to them, they limit OS/2's direct addressing ability to 16MB. Anything above that is used as fast swap space. Mike Ruskai thannymeister@yahoo.com ... Freedom of religion is also freedom FROM religion. . . ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE! WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jean-Michel Dossogne 18-Sep-99 07:10:19 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:36:09 Subj: Alea jacta est... Bad day today for our pc's.. * Transfere par Jean-Michel Dossogne (2:293/3202) * Area : DOGGY-WARP (OS/2 E-Zine Niouze (ML, lecture)) * Le : Vendredi 17 Septembre 1999 * De : os2news_warpcast 3054:3054/43 * Vers : Toutes et tous! * Sujet: news V1 #187 @RFCID: <19990918014436979.AAA173@mailer.bmtmicro.net> news Fri, 17 Sep 1999 Volume 1 : Number 187 In this issue: >..... [WarpCast] Judgement Day results >.... Warpstock 99 - Atlanta, October 16-17, 1999 Two fun filled days of OS/2 and YOU! Register by September 6, 1999 to receive a discount! Visit http://www.warpstock.org for full details. ****************************** WarpCast ****************************** >.......... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99 14:16:51 From: "WarpCast Submissions" To: "" Subject: [WarpCast] Judgement Day results Message-ID: <19990917181417437.AAA192@mailer.bmtmicro.net@ns2.falcon-net.net> Source: fonz (fonz@gmx.at) Moderator: Christopher B. Wright (wrightc@dtcweb.com) ********************************************************************** In 1998, Stardock took the position that if IBM had no current or projected plans for a new fat OS/2 client, that it was in the interests of OS/2 users and the computing community in general that a third-party should work with IBM to license OS/2 technology on an OEM basis and make a new client available. To that end, late last year, Stardock prepared a business plan and opened negotiations with IBM. The wheels of bureacracy grind slowly, but eventually it was up to "IBM" (executive level) to make the ultimate call on proceeding. For the past 6 months, Stardock and IBM have been working closely together in hammering out the details of an OS/2 client. Everything from potential names down to which minute components would or would not be included. These meetings included multiple in person meetings with IBM staff and executives here at Stardock's office complex in Livonia Michigan. With an agreement in principle in place, the last major hurdle was this week in which the IBMers in favor of our proposal (mostly in Austin) presented their case to IBM as a whole. The call has been made -- there will be no new client from Stardock and IBM has indicated that they have no plans for an OS/2 based client of their own. Though IBM indicated Stardock had the strongest proposal, they have decided that it is currently not in IBM's or their customer's interests to license any current OS/2 technology on an OEM-basis. There was never any discord between IBM and Stardock over financials, technical viability, target market, or the like. IBM has simply finally made the decision that a new OS/2 client would be in conflict with their strategic directions. Stardock would like to extend a special thanks to all the IBMers (and in particular Ken Christopher and Timothy Sipples) who went above and beyond the call in working with us and going to bat inside IBM. Remember when you meet folks like them, who are and have been intimately involved with OS/2, that their hands may be just as tied as yours when the IBM Corporation as a whole sets policy. Everything that could be done was done. Brad -+- Brad Wardell Product Manager: Object Desktop & The Corporate Machine http://www.stardock.com ------------------------------ >............ ------------------------------ End of news V1 #187 ******************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe, unsubscribe, or for more information on WarpCast, visit: http://www.warpcast.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- + Origin: Doggy's BBS (3054:3054/43) =================================================================== :-( --- GoldED 3.00.Beta2+ # Origin: Doggy's BBS Philippeville Belgique +3271 666292 (8:7620/1) # Origin: FamilyNet Intl. Echogate [708] 230-9068 (1:115/887) * Origin: The TALKING HUB * Alexandria, VA * (703) 549-5612 (1:109/11) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: paul marwick 17-Sep-99 09:20:18 To: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 06:36:09 Subj: File Managers Hi Roy Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Bat Lang: RJT> On that subject, is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files, RJT> other than actually making the floppies? It depends on the format of the .dsk (IBM appears to have updated the creation program at some stage). However, for a number of them (certainly including all the current Fixpack images) DIUNPACK can be used to dump the contents to the hard drive. It can be found bundled with any version of FASTKICK, and I'm fairly sure I've seen it on its own as well... regards, paul --- FleetStreet 1.24.1 * Origin: madHouse Inc - Brisbane, QLD (3:640/820) 280/801 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Dan Egli 18-Sep-99 21:32:21 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:36:09 Subj: OS/2 and SoundBlaster AWE64 Ok all. How do I get my SoundBlaster AWE64 configured w/ Warp 4? And if possible, I do NOT want the mmpm stuff installed. I never use it so its a waste of space. If absolutely necessary, I'll install it. But Prefferable solutions will give me access to the SB Card in programs w/o installing all the PM controlls, and the wav and AVI files. Thanks! ... I know a good tagline when I steal one. --- * Origin: Default originline (1:311/50) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Peter Knapper 19-Sep-99 15:14:24 To: Mike Ruskai 19-Sep-99 06:36:09 Subj: Objects Hi Mike, MR> The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or MR> not they perform bus mastering DMA. Since ISA slots only MR> have a 24-bit DMA available to them, they limit OS/2's direct MR> addressing ability to 16MB. Anything above that MR> is used as fast swap space. While the 16MB direct Bus Master DMA limit is true as you say, it actually depends a lot on the driver for the ISA card. When I upgraded the BBS machine from a 16Mb 486DX2-66 to a 32Mb K6-300 I changed the Adaptec 1540C to a PCI NCR based card because of the ISA DMA issue, but this change seemed to result in a moderately rare (every 15-20 days operation), but totally fatal reliabilty problem. While researching driver updates for the NCR card I discovered that a refresh of the OS/2 AHA154X.ADD file appeared early 1998 which allowed me to enable Double Buffering - BASEDEV=AHA154X.ADD /V /DBUFF /ET Using the above parameter it allows the card to work fine and was a great help, I have (had) about 3 of these cards lying around here. Of course there is a little catch in that it can require an extra move of the data in memory before the application can have it, reducing performance by a small amount, but at least it keeps a good reliable old card still usable. Cheers.........pk. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Another Good Point About OS/2 (3:772/1.10) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Alan Hess 18-Sep-99 23:26:02 To: all 19-Sep-99 08:23:21 Subj: NC 4.61 I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has anyone installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if it's possible and works that way. --- Msged/2 TE 05 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Holger Granholm 18-Sep-99 21:12:00 To: Eddy Thilleman 19-Sep-99 08:23:21 Subj: help please? In a message dated 09-15-99, Eddy Thilleman said to Holger Granholm: HG> So, is it the G200 AGP card drivers/BIOS everybody has been discussing HG> here fore a while? ET>I don't know what you mean by this remark. There has been discussion ET>about Matrox G200 AGP- and about Matrox G200 PCI-cards. OK, thanks. Have a nice day, Holger ___ * MR/2 2.26 * Air conditioned environment - Do not open Windows. --- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Murray Lesser 18-Sep-99 20:08:00 To: Will Honea 18-Sep-99 20:08:00 Subj: Cache (Excerpts from a message dated 09-17-99, Will Honea to Murray Lesser) Hi Will-- ML> Deleting the leading "rem " from the line in CONFIG.SYS (leaving ML> the install-provided: "DISKCACHE=D,LW") and rebooting, I get 3204 ML> KB resident system space and 512 KB of disk cache. As you will ML> recognize, the additional 4KB (one page) for resident system is in ML> the noise, and can be ignored. This data led me to believe that ML> there was no default assignment of "DISKCACHE" memory in my system, ML> in spite of what it said in on-line help! WH>Last time I had OS2MEMU up, the D parameter was working as advertised >- but I also have a couple of FAT partitions. That may impact the >assignment as opposed to floppy-only systems. Your post aroused my curiosity, so I ran some more tests. I have a small partition (51 MB) that I call my "pseudo virtual drive" since it gets formatted by STARTUP.CMD. I use it as a working Drive: All the junk left over from compiling (or from running Netscape/2) vanishes with STARTUP.CMD, saving me a lot of file housekeeping. So, for these tests, I formatted it FAT instead of the usual HPFS, thereby giving me one FAT partition on my hard drive (this system - ThinkPad 365XD - has only one hard drive). When I booted with the DISKCACHE= statement REMmed out of CONFIG.SYS, I got essentially the same thing as with no FAT drive. However, when I booted with the "default" DISKCACHE=D,LW, I got an increase in resident system memory from 3184 to 5568 Kb. However OS20MEMU said that memory allocated to disk cache remained at 512 Kb! I read this as the system having allocated almost 2400 Kb to the FAT cache and its supporting driver, but OS20MEMU didn't want to tell me about it! When I rebooted with DISKCACHE=2048,LW I got resident system memory of 5592 Kb (within the noise of the previous value), but OS20MEMU's report of memory allocated to disk cache went up to 2560, somewhat verifying my previous assumption as to where some of that 2400 Kb went to. After I had run the above experiments, I reformatted my working drive HPFS. Then, I realized that I hadn't covered one case: I didn't have a floppy drive attached for any of the tests. My ThinkPad has a built-in CD-ROM drive, but the floppy is an external drive that must be plugged in before rebooting, for the system to see it. At home, the ThinkPad sits in its port replicator, and is always attached to the floppy drive, the Zip drive, an external display, keyboard and mouse, and the printer. But I am currently on the road, and the external floppy drive is riding in my carry case. So I attached it, rebooted, and ran OS20MEMU with and without the DISKCACHE= line REMmed out of CONFIG.SYS. No change in resident memory size nor memory allocated to disk cache. Thus, my tentative conclusions are: OS/2 (at least at Warp 4 + FixPak 5) is a lot smarter than I thought it is. With "D" calling for the default memory to be allocated to diskcache, the line is ignored if there aren't any FAT partitions on the hard drive. When there is one FAT partition, the system supplies only 2 MB of diskcache, rather than the 4 MB that the "help" file says my 40 MB of "system memory" should have generated! (I don't know if the 4 MB maximum is an on-line documentation error, or would have been allocated if more than one FAT partition were on my hard drive.) If the DISKCACHE= line is REMmed out, the system doesn't assign any memory to the diskcache, irrespective of whether or not there are any FAT partitions on the hard drive(s). I reiterate that I am using Warp 4 plus FixPak 5; my results may not apply to other levels of OS/2; YMMV. My attitude toward on-line documentation is unchanged: Too much information is omitted for it to be useful for much of anything, and what information is present should be verified by test before drawing any conclusions from it. (Note: My experience to date indicates that this sad state of on-line documentation is not limited to that furnished by IBM; I have on-line documentation that came with commercial products produced by non-IBM sources that are even worse. One virtue of IBM desktop software products is that hard-copy documentation can usually be obtained if one is willing to pay for it.) Regards, --Murray ___ * MR/2 2.25 #120 * Curiouser and curiouser. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 16-Sep-99 18:36:28 To: Steve Mccrystal 19-Sep-99 10:46:10 Subj: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n ? Steve Mccrystal wrote in a message to Jack Stein: SM>> This whole thing sorta reminds me of the switch from BPS to SM>> Symbols. The entire world could do without it! JS> I dunno what BPS is, but I think I can safely agree with you:-) SM> Bits Per Second, the (once) proper terminology that replaced SM> BAUD (or should have) when protocols were developed by which SM> the bit rate exceeded the baudrate. Smacking forehead, OH, THAT BPS:-) Now I see, yeah, good analagy I reckon. It must have been the Symbols that threw me off. Characters per second vs baud, is that what you mean? SM> For the purists, I realize that this is not completely SM> correct, but it makes the point, I think. SM> When we had BPS, many modem manufacturers, and almost all SM> modem resellers, were the ones confused, intentionally IMHO, SM> due to either laziness or ignorance. Modem manufacturers have done a bang up job of confusing most everyone. Even hard core computer folks turn belly up when reading a modem manual... Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) 140/1 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Bushong 18-Sep-99 03:53:00 To: Mark Ellis 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: Objects ::> HB> Go with a scheme, then you can set those colors as well to what you w ::> I've pretty much got it down now after a bit of practicing. Though I find ::> pretty hard to get "all" the thing to look right in all the right places. ::> Black text on a black background can be a bit hard on the eyes sometimes : Hehehehe, I hear ya. I've had that happen frequently, especially on the color of the text for minimized programs... Úþ Herbert Bushong harchon@centurytel.net [TEAM OS/2] Ãþ Blackbeard's BBS herb@intelec.com Intelec: 239:600/0 Àþ Fido: 1:19/19 http://www.intelec.com/software/ --- þ RM 1.31 2508 þ Keep your hands on the keyboard... * Origin: Blackbeard's BBS - Ville Platte, LA - 318-468-3385 (1:19/19) 600 1500 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Paul Hildebrandt 18-Sep-99 22:16:25 To: Holger Granholm 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: BGFAX reg Hello Holger! 16 Sep 99 19:50, Holger Granholm wrote to Paul Hildebrandt: HG> If you find out, please let us know the result. I decided not to bother untill I had more money. If you want to contact him by internet here's the info: E-mail: bgfax@blkbox.com http://www.blkbox.com/~bgfax/ Paul --- GoldED/2 2.42.G1219+ * Origin: The Paintballers' BBS ----* (1:153/870) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 08:00:14 To: Alan Hess 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Alan Hess wrote in a message to all: AH> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can AH> the files in the two be combined somehow? *adh* Those things are doing stuff at two different levels. The former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking to, which protocols are assigned to what, etc. wile the other handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction. Why would you want to do that, anyway? --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 07:54:01 To: Murray Lesser 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: Character sets Murray Lesser wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: RT>If you were going to specify a collating sequence, how would RT>_you_ do it? ML> More or less the same as the IBM 8-bit character set ML> EBCDIC (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) has ML> done it since the S/360 family in 1964. I used to have a chart around somewhere that listed that set, but haven't seen it for ages... ML> All alpha characters are contiguous, with the special ML> characters having a grouping of their own, rather than being in ML> several groups scattered between portions of the alphabet. Makes sense to me. I'd add that a simple interchange of one adjacent pair of bits should give lexical ordering, too. --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 07:49:12 To: paul marwick 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: File Managers paul marwick wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: RJT> Actually I have both versions running here. And yes, even the OS/2 RJT> version is a little rough when it comes to long filenames, it RJT> doesn't display the whole name. And it barfs on bigger than 2G RJT> partitions, as well. pm> InspectA displays long filenames without too many problems. In pm> terms of the normal disply, it depends on how it is set up and pm> there is a limit to the number of characters that it will pm> display. I haven't fiddled with display modes too much. pm> A trick for a long filename is to ivoke the FILES.BBS edit pm> function - place the cursor over the long filename and press pm> insert. Inspect will then prompt for a description to whatever pm> the filename is. I've not seen it run out of display characters pm> in that mode.. Yes, that's one of my favorite features of the program. And one of the things I miss the most when I'm fiddling around under Linux (which doesn't have the description stuff at all, at least not with the tools I'm working with). --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 18-Sep-99 07:24:02 To: Stewart Honsberger 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: OS/2 Sales Stewart Honsberger wrote in a message to Jack Stein: SH>> IBM is quietly exceeding its own OS/2 sales expectations. JS> Not by much I hope, or they will be forced to take even more overt JS> actions to kill it, and insure earthlings remain with MS crap stuck JS> firmly up you know where.... SH> Why are you being so harsh on them? What have they ever done SH> to you? They deprived me of getting a trip guide with a CD in it with software that runs under OS/2, rather than WIN95. They made sure when one goes to Kmart, Babbages, or work, that one will see nothing but WIN95 crap. SH> After their own anti-trust trial, they pulled back. You mean that 1956 suit? SH> When they found out that people were more interested in MSs SH> "pretty" interface (without much structure behind it), and SH> the fact that they could make money hand over fist with only SH> half the work - they made the obvious choice. Why try to SH> change market perception, when you can ride the wave? That does not explain why IBM pulled the plug on OS/2 just days before the release of WIN95. Just when OS/2 was gaining tremendous momentum in the market place. Sales where just hitting 1 million copies per month, when IBM switched tactics from non-support, to overtly telling folks OS/2 was NOT for them, that they should NOT use OS/2. SH>> While IBM always has maintained that it continues to SH>> actively support its OS/2 operating system, JS> IBM is a pack of liars! SH> You're an uninformed pest. I don't think so. I don't need "informed", I watched it happen. SH> FixPack 11 for OS/2 Warp 4 - Dated July 1, 1999 SH> Fixpack 41(?) for OS/2 Warp 3 released about the same time. SH> Latest beta Netscape Communicator for OS/2 Warp - Dated SH> August 9, 1999 You consider this support? Give me a break. I'm not talking about providing some updates to OS/2, I'm talking about support in the market place. You know, things like advertising, making sure retail stores have copies of OS/2 to sell, cooperating with developers, things like that. JS> IBM NEVER supported OS/2, not for one day. SH> I hope you're taken to court for libel. IBM would not stand a chance, unless they used theirmoney, power and influence to stack the deck. JS> IBM's next move, if I read them correctly will be to attempt to JS> kill LINUX. SH> You know even less about Linux than you do about OS/2. And you know that because..? SH> Linux can NOT be "killed" by any corporation. Not even IBM and SH> Microsoft combined. You can't kill a product that's source SH> code is available on millions of sites worldwide. Linux has been freely available for many years now. It's only recently begun moving slowly forward with the likes of Slackware and RedHat providing the package. RedHat appears to be the one most likely to have any effect on the market in general, and the cartel seems to be moving in on them. You can choose to think thats to insure the can "ride the wave", I'm not so sure thats their motivation. SH> Take your FUD elsewhere. I don't want the likes of you in an SH> echo for support of one of my chosen OSs. What you like and what you get are not always the same thing. You should know that by now... Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 18-Sep-99 07:49:13 To: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: File Managers Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein: RJT> They may just try, but I don't think they'll succeed. JS> I hope you're right, but, I have serious reservations. The JS> power of MS, IBM, INTEL and ZIFF-DAVIS cannot easily be JS> under-rated. RJT> "The power" that those folks may hold, such as it is, is a RJT> matter of economics, and of doing things within some fairly RJT> narrowly defined commercial channels -- the home and RJT> smaller-end business market for M$, the medium and larger RJT> business market for IBM, etc. That's why OS/2 isn't being RJT> agressively marketed by IBM, it crosses that boundary. The RJT> whole philosophy behind Linux is outside that framework. I can't agree with you here Roy. Both the home, and business (large and small) is totally domonated by MS products. You would be hard pressed to locate a business that was not running MS OS's. JS> Who would ever guess that 25 years after the worlds greatest OS JS> was presented to the world, RJT> You talking about unix here? Yes. JS> the world would be totally dominated by the likes of DOS/WIN, RJT> The world? The home pc market, maybe. Businesses and RJT> academia do tend to run a lot of other stuff besides. They are dominated by MS OS, and not by a little. JS> the worlds worst OS's for at least 15 years running? It JS> boggles the mind, doesn't it? RJT> Not really. There are a few factors that tend to account RJT> for some of this. Sure, it is a rather complicated issue on the surface, but underneath, it gets much simpler. RJT> For one, unix was originally a very proprietary product, RJT> owned by Bell Labs, and licensed to a small number of vendors. Yes, and very expensive, and made for big iron, there was no little iron at that time. RJT> I don't know just when that changed, but it did. A variant RJT> written for smaller machines called Minix (also written as a RJT> teaching tool) came about, and growing out of that is how RJT> Linux got started. When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when the fun, and market manipulation began. IBM was in charge, and they chose MS to run the software end of the business. That has not changed, and the result of course is the worlds worst OS dominating the home and business market. RJT> I think it's just starting to gain momentum. And since I've RJT> started paying a bunch of attention to it the traffic in RJT> that echo has grown from moderately busy to about twice the RJT> volume of this one! LINUX gets 3 times the traffic here. This is good but, OS/2 conferences have always recieved a LOT of traffic in FIDO, and that didn't help OS/2 survive in the real world. Almost no one in computing read any of this stuff. RJT> While, sad to see, the tone of OS/2 echos in general is RJT> starting to remind me of that of CP/M users after ms-dos had RJT> been around a year or two. Not that I'm ready to dump it, RJT> but... The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM likes it that way. Hard to promote a product when the company that sells it doesn't want anyone to use it. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 18-Sep-99 08:05:29 To: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 14:26:22 Subj: File Managers Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> I have WIN95 installed and my wife and kids occasionally use it JS> for some stupid crap that doesn't run on anything but WIN. RJT> Same here. Though I'm not even gonna consider RJT> upgrading the w95 machine here to 98, much less that new RJT> version that's out there... You will be forced to upgrade eventually, just like you were forced to install WIN95 to begin with. You and I, and most of us here would choose never to see a WIN logo on any screen on earth, yet we all run it, either at home along side OS/2, or at work. JS> For example, wife bought a travel guide book for our vacation JS> and it came with a CD that attempts to tell you the fastest, JS> shortest, most senic routes to places. It only runs in WIN95 of JS> course. RJT> Typical. Those folks will learn, eventually. If their RJT> software is of such limited appeal that they end up putting RJT> it in the back of a book (seems to be happening to a lot of RJT> people these days), then they may be more approachable to RJT> supporting other formats, or at least providing source or RJT> maybe an API to let others get to the data. That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally dominates the desktop. That will not happen I'm afraid. There was a good opportunity from 1991 to 1995, but IBM made certain it did NOT happen. RJT> Reminds me of the guy I used to work with -- 24 years old RJT> (I'm now twice that age) and he considered himself to be RJT> "the best technician in there" because he'd "immersed RJT> himself in w98 and now knew it inside and out", though I RJT> did see him get stumped a couple of times and have RJT> absolutely no clue as to how to proceed from there. This RJT> guy was the "sales manager" of this retail computer store, RJT> which is now closed up. I'm sure he had no trouble finding another job. WIN dominates totally. JS> I guess thats how it is everywhere today.... RJT> I'm sure that it seems like "everywhere", but it's not as RJT> bad as all that. Only looks that way sometimes because they RJT> dominate the personal marketplace for the most part. No Roy, they dominate the marketplace, not just the "personal" market place. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Will Honea 19-Sep-99 12:59:00 To: Murray Lesser 19-Sep-99 12:59:00 Subj: Cache Murray Lesser wrote to Will Honea on 09-18-1999 ML> My attitude toward on-line documentation is unchanged: Too ML> much information is omitted for it to be useful for much of ML> anything, and what information is present should be verified by test ML> before drawing any conclusions from it. (Note: My experience to ML> date indicates that this sad state of on-line documentation is not ML> limited to that furnished by IBM; I have on-line documentation that ML> came with commercial products produced by non-IBM sources that are ML> even worse. One virtue of IBM desktop software products is that ML> hard-copy documentation can usually be obtained if one is willing to ML> pay for it.) Even the hard-copy versions are shooting at a moving target these days. FP11 introduced some spindown functions in the IDE drivers that caused a lot of grief until one of the Austin group posted the info needed to 'fix' the fix - a new, totally undocumented (outside the developers) feature. I appreciate the info you weeded out. It's great for memory constrained systems although lately my solution has been to just throw more memory at it. Will Honea --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Will Honea 19-Sep-99 13:02:01 To: paul marwick 19-Sep-99 13:02:01 Subj: File Managers paul marwick wrote to Roy J. Tellason on 09-17-1999 pm> Hi Roy pm> pm> Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Bat Lang: pm> pm> RJT> On that subject, is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files, pm> RJT> other than actually making the floppies? pm> pm> It depends on the format of the .dsk (IBM appears to have updated pm> the creation program at some stage). However, for a number of them pm> (certainly including all the current Fixpack images) DIUNPACK can pm> be used to dump the contents to the hard drive. It can be found pm> bundled with any version of FASTKICK, and I'm fairly sure I've seen pm> it on its own as well... At least one group, the LAN division, seems to be using a very old creation program that bombs the LOADDSKF most of us have. I prefer a program called dskxtrct myself as it has a lot more error checking. It's in the QF11 package (hobbes, etc) and works quite well. Will Honea --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Alan Hess 19-Sep-99 14:23:09 To: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 19:54:10 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Whilst masticating on , Roy J. Tellason (1:270/615) wrote to Alan Hess: AH>> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can AH>> the files in the two be combined somehow? *adh* RJT> Those things are doing stuff at two different levels. The RJT> former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking RJT> to, which protocols are assigned to what, etc. wile the other RJT> handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction. RJT> Why would you want to do that, anyway? Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees, so I wondered if they could be combined. --- Msged/2 TE 05 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Ben Ritchey 19-Sep-99 15:58:06 To: Alan Hess 19-Sep-99 23:58:06 Subj: Re: NC 4.61 CHRS: IBMPC 2 * Whilst Alan Hess spake unto All ... AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has anyone AH> installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if it's possible Works fine that way under Warp 3 FP40 ... Be well, Ben aka CMech http://Positron.org/cmech/ --- GoldED/386 3.00.Beta5+ * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium (1:3803/7) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Rob Basler 19-Sep-99 12:44:00 To: Dan Egli 19-Sep-99 23:58:06 Subj: OS/2 and SoundBlaster AW DE>Ok all. How do I get my SoundBlaster AWE64 configured w/ Warp 4? DE>And if possible, I do NOT want the mmpm stuff installed. I DE>never use it so its a waste of space. If absolutely DE>necessary, I'll install it. But Prefferable solutions will DE>give me access to the SB Card in programs w/o installing DE>all the PM controlls, and the wav and AVI files. First of all you have to obtain the beta Awe64 drivers for your card at http://www.ionet.net/~colin/awe32.htm These drivers *DO* work, I have used them, but they can be tricky to install. There's no way to avoid installing MMPM, but you can delete all the junk you don't want afterwards. Rob. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X MS: Where do you want to go uhhh... some time next year? --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Rob Basler 19-Sep-99 13:06:01 To: Russell Tiedt 19-Sep-99 23:58:06 Subj: StarOffice? RT>A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I RT>would like to install it but I seem unable to get a RT>registration code from the "stardivision.com" web site for RT>some reason. RT>Does anyone have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it. Try www.sun.com/staroffice/ Rob. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Trust no one. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 16:52:17 To: Jack Stein 19-Sep-99 23:58:06 Subj: File Managers Jack Stein wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: JS> Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein: RJT> They may just try, but I don't think they'll succeed. JS> I hope you're right, but, I have serious reservations. The JS> power of MS, IBM, INTEL and ZIFF-DAVIS cannot easily be JS> under-rated. RJT> "The power" that those folks may hold, such as it is, is a RJT> matter of economics, and of doing things within some fairly RJT> narrowly defined commercial channels -- the home and RJT> smaller-end business market for M$, the medium and larger RJT> business market for IBM, etc. That's why OS/2 isn't being RJT> agressively marketed by IBM, it crosses that boundary. The RJT> whole philosophy behind Linux is outside that framework. JS> I can't agree with you here Roy. It's not something I'm all that worried about here, and I haven't really reasearched this to get solid numbers. JS> Both the home, and business (large and small) is totally JS> domonated by MS products. You would be hard pressed to locate JS> a business that was not running MS OS's. Oh? I suppose if you're counting number of copies sold there can't be any doubt of that, but I'm also thinking of dollars spent. There's no way I'm going to believe that either the big iron out there or the midrange stuff runs any m$ software. JS> Who would ever guess that 25 years after the worlds greatest OS JS> was presented to the world, RJT> You talking about unix here? JS> Yes. JS> the world would be totally dominated by the likes of DOS/WIN, RJT> The world? The home pc market, maybe. Businesses and RJT> academia do tend to run a lot of other stuff besides. JS> They are dominated by MS OS, and not by a little. On what are you basing this? JS> the worlds worst OS's for at least 15 years running? It JS> boggles the mind, doesn't it? RJT> Not really. There are a few factors that tend to account RJT> for some of this. JS> Sure, it is a rather complicated issue on the surface, but JS> underneath, it gets much simpler. RJT> For one, unix was originally a very proprietary product, RJT> owned by Bell Labs, and licensed to a small number of vendors. JS> Yes, and very expensive, and made for big iron, there was no JS> little iron at that time. Big iron? Seems to me it was written for what would later be classed as "minis". RJT> I don't know just when that changed, but it did. A variant RJT> written for smaller machines called Minix (also written as a RJT> teaching tool) came about, and growing out of that is how RJT> Linux got started. JS> When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when JS> the fun, and market manipulation began. It's no coincidence that m$ started with not one but _two_ lawyers in the initial group, a fact that's endeared neither them nor lawyers in general to me... JS> IBM was in charge, and they chose MS to run the software end of JS> the business. I guess I have a somewhat different perspective on this stuff as I don't think of that point in time as being when it all started. I was into it a long time before then, and the entry of IBM into the market was something I didn't take seriously for a while. It _did_ have a bunch of far-reaching effects, mostly the standardization of the hardware and software bases on which things could build, and that more than anything else is why it started to snowball from there. JS> That has not changed, and the result of course is the worlds JS> worst OS dominating the home and business market. To a point... RJT> I think it's just starting to gain momentum. And since I've RJT> started paying a bunch of attention to it the traffic in that RJT> echo has grown from moderately busy to about twice the volume RJT> of this one! JS> LINUX gets 3 times the traffic here. This is good but, OS/2 JS> conferences have always recieved a LOT of traffic in FIDO, and JS> that didn't help OS/2 survive in the real world. Almost no one JS> in computing read any of this stuff. Sure, but that's only _one_ indication that I look at. RJT> While, sad to see, the tone of OS/2 echos in general is RJT> starting to remind me of that of CP/M users after ms-dos had RJT> been around a year or two. Not that I'm ready to dump it, RJT> but... JS> The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM JS> likes it that way. Hard to promote a product when the company JS> that sells it doesn't want anyone to use it. I do *not* understand where they're coming from with this attitude, except that they've been infamous for a long time for a careful orchestration of what they do so that nothing is going to have an adverse impact on some other corporate division. The likelihood probably is that that they simply choose to expend the minimum possible resources on maintaining the product, and don't market it more aggressively because they're making more money moving the other stuff that's out there, including their distribution of m$ product. It's sad. But there's no way that a bunch of users is going to change the course of a behemoth like IBM, so I don't figure on getting all upset about it. If what I _have_ is a usable product, if it'll serve me well for what I want to do here, then fine, I'll use it. If not, then I'll simply find something else that will. --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) 278/111 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 17:07:01 To: Jack Stein 19-Sep-99 23:58:06 Subj: File Managers Jack Stein wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: JS> Roy J. Tellason wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> I have WIN95 installed and my wife and kids occasionally use it JS> for some stupid crap that doesn't run on anything but WIN. RJT> Same here. Though I'm not even gonna consider upgrading RJT> the w95 machine here to 98, much less that new version that's RJT> out there... JS> You will be forced to upgrade eventually, just like you were JS> forced to install WIN95 to begin with. Nope! For one thing I already *have* w98 here on cdrom, and choose not to install it on there. For another I didn't choose to install w95 on that machine, it was on there when we got it. Along with a whole bunch of baggage pertaining to its former corporate owners (a corporation that effectively doesn't exist any more as such) and lots of fun stuff like references to network drives that it's not connected to, etc. I had a lot of fun ripping that junk out of the registry, and I'm not quite done yet. JS> You and I, and most of us here would choose never to see a WIN JS> logo on any screen on earth, yet we all run it, either at home JS> along side OS/2, or at work. I _had_ a w98 box. That drive has been pulled (more as a matter of saving me some time just in case I want to fire it up for some reason) and that machine is now running Linux. What's currently here in terms of machines is this: cpu ram OS Function 1 5x86/133 16M dos-dv&OS/2 bbs (this box) 2 486dx2/66 8M dos&win311 games 3 P200 64M Linux development, file server, 'net (eventually) 4 486dx2/66 40M OS/2 only bbs configuration, possibly cdrom server 5 P66 16M w95 games, recreation, WP, print server That should give a pretty good indication of what my priorities are. JS> For example, wife bought a travel guide book for our vacation JS> and it came with a CD that attempts to tell you the fastest, JS> shortest, most senic routes to places. It only runs in WIN95 of JS> course. RJT> Typical. Those folks will learn, eventually. If their RJT> software is of such limited appeal that they end up putting it RJT> in the back of a book (seems to be happening to a lot of people RJT> these days), then they may be more approachable to supporting RJT> other formats, or at least providing source or maybe an API to RJT> let others get to the data. JS> That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally JS> dominates the desktop. That will not happen I'm afraid. It's already started. JS> There was a good opportunity from 1991 to 1995, but IBM made JS> certain it did NOT happen. IBM decided that _they_ were not going to do that to the market place, no doubt because of the impact that such a decision would have had on other things that IBM was doing. IBM also has refrained from a lot of things with the hardware, too, and look what happened -- they LOST their domination of that part of the market early on. RJT> Reminds me of the guy I used to work with -- 24 years old (I'm RJT> now twice that age) and he considered himself to be "the best RJT> technician in there" because he'd "immersed himself in w98 and RJT> now knew it inside and out", though I did see him get stumped RJT> a couple of times and have absolutely no clue as to how to RJT> proceed from there. This guy was the "sales manager" of this RJT> retail computer store, which is now closed up. JS> I'm sure he had no trouble finding another job. WIN dominates JS> totally. Before that job he worked at a car dealer in the area. JS> I guess thats how it is everywhere today.... RJT> I'm sure that it seems like "everywhere", but it's not as bad RJT> as all that. Only looks that way sometimes because they RJT> dominate the personal marketplace for the most part. JS> No Roy, they dominate the marketplace, not just the "personal" JS> market place. They're not that important _here_. And apparently in a number of other places as well. I was rather pleased, a while back, when I was watching the news and heard an item to the effect that, in spite of much "courting" on the part of m$, the government department in Mexico that had the final say as to what was going into all of the schools in that country had decided on something else, instead. (I guess they were upset about the bribes paid? :-) I didn't know what it was at the time, but "gnome" is a window manager that runs with X, the base OS being Linux! Old billyboy had a most unhappy expression on his face that day. Without a serious study of the numbers, and a lot of that coming from places outside of this country, I'm just not going to accept that point above as fact. --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) 278/111 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: MIKE RUSKAI 18-Sep-99 18:06:00 To: ALAN HESS 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Some senseless babbling from Alan Hess to All on 09-16-99 21:39 about \tcpip and \mptn... AH> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can the files AH> in the two be combined somehow? *adh* They could probably be combined, but why go through the trouble? Mike Ruskai thannymeister@yahoo.com ... Cannibals don't eat lawyers. Professional courtesy. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE! WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Louis Aubree 15-Sep-99 17:18:00 To: Jack Stein 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n ? You jumped in Jonathan De Boyne Pollard reply to me : JS> LA> Does "KiB" mean 1024 bytes? JS> JS> JDBP> Yes. Then JBBP explained these (new) equivalences : 1024 --> kilobinary --> kibi --> Ki 1024^2 --> megabinary --> mebi --> Me 1024^3 --> gigabinary --> gibi --> Gi 1024^4 --> terabinary --> tebi --> Te JS> I like k,m and g for the small ones, K,M, and G for the big ones... JS> JS> Whats so tough about that? You could use uppercase 'K' (the prefix for kilo is 'k'), but not more. The prefixes for mega (10^6), giga, tera are uppercase 'M', 'G' and 'T', _not_ lowercase 'm', 'g', 't'. More than that, lowercase 'm' is the prefix for milli (a thousandth part). So this idea was just good with 'k' and 'K', but is quite over now for sizes of memory, files, hard disks... Louis ... * ATP/OS2 1.42 * Bonjour de Nantes, Bretagne. --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Island's BBS * Nantes et sa region * (+33) 0251.397.478 (2:326/2) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Louis Aubree 15-Sep-99 21:15:00 To: James Mckenzie 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: Netscape Communicator Tobias Ernst replied to you : JM>> AS A WORD OF NOTE: IBM IS REQUIRED TO ENFORCE THE FRENCH LAW JM>> WHICH REQUIRES YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE "INTERNATIONAL:FRANCE" VERSION. TE> TE> What's behind that law? Why should a person from France be TE> prohibited from downloading an international English or German TE> or whatever version if he likes that language better? TE> TE> Or does the French version have even less crypotgraphy then TE> the 40 bits for the rest of the world? No, the French law doesn't rule the rest of the world. Even if some highbrows there believe the Earth is flat with Paris right in the middle... :-)) No, the French law doesn't prohibit to download any cryptography program from abroad. It used to prohibit to USE any crypting... Then, in 1997, 40 bits keys were allowed. Now, the new rule is that 128 bits keys will be allowed. (Thanks to "Echelon"...). But of course, we can't download (nor buy...) any U.S. product including crypting with keys longer than 40 bits, not because of French law, but because of U.S. law prohibiting such exports. Every other country in the world (well, almost?) suffers the same U.S. law, so Europe has its own companies specialized in crypting products. L.A. ... * ATP/OS2 1.42 * Bonjour de Nantes, Bretagne. --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Island's BBS * Nantes et sa region * (+33) 0251.397.478 (2:326/2) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Alan Hess 19-Sep-99 20:51:20 To: Ben Ritchey 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: Re: NC 4.61 Whilst masticating on , Ben Ritchey (1:3803/7) wrote to Alan Hess: AH>> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has AH>> anyone installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if it's AH>> possible BR> Works fine that way under Warp 3 FP40 ... What do you think of 4.61? --- Msged/2 TE 05 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Adam Cameron 19-Sep-99 21:15:11 To: David Noon 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: Re: win-os2 and AIM .x%X[Quoting David Noon from a message to Adam Cameron]X%x. AC> Warp 4 with FP9. Anything I can change to fix this? DN> When it crashes, press Alt+Esc [no, not Ctl+Esc] to get back to the DN> WPS. AC> The crash causes the entire computer to lock up, mouse AC> locks up, display locks up, everything. DN> Are you running it in a full-screen or seamless WIN-OS/2 session? The program locks up both in a full-screen and seamless session, that doesnt effect it. +(cheba:cheba@bytespeed.com:icq4201056)+ --- * Origin: +(absoluteZERO::telnet://cheba.darktech.org)+ (1:116/71) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Andy Roberts 19-Sep-99 06:09:14 To: Russell Tiedt 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: StarOffice? Russell Tiedt, 17-Sep-99 18:09:51, Russell Tiedt wrote to All Subject: StarOffice? RT> A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I would RT> like to install it but I seem unable to get a registration code RT> from the "stardivision.com" web site for some reason Does anyone RT> have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it. $9.95 plus S&H will get you a new CD with v.5.1a that does not need a registration code and has more filters. For details see: http://www.sun.com/staroffice Thanks and Good Luck, Andy Roberts andy@shentel.net --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at * Origin: Warp 4 engage.....----------=============>>>>>>>>>>> (1:109/921.1) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Leonard Erickson 19-Sep-99 00:39:00 To: George White 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: Character sets -=> Quoting George White to Leonard Erickson <=- GW> Hi Leonard, GW> You wrote to me about my message to Murray Lesser: LE> -=> Quoting George White to Murray Lesser <=- LE> ML> Nowadays, the Average Idiot Home User hasn't heard of any character LE> ML>code other than ASCII, if even that :-(. As you well know, the stupid LE> ML>collating sequence of ASCII is due to the great desire of AT&T to pack LE> ML>everything they thought anybody would ever want into seven bits, while LE> ML>letting the presence of a single bit differentiate between lower- and LE> ML>upper-case alpha characters (a desirable characteristic only for fully LE> ML>mechanical terminals). LE>ASCII *was* defined in 1963 (or was it 68?) you know. It was originally LE>intended as a standard for moving data between different brands of LE>mainframes (which all had their *own* character sets back then) GW> I hope Murray sees this, I wasn't interested in this aspect of the GW> message. As you have raised it with me, according to a reference I GW> have here (C Programmers Guide to Serial Communications by Joe GW> Campbell), the official title of the ASCII specification is "ANSI GW> Standard X3.4-1977 (Revised 1983), Code for Information Interchange", GW> so from this I believe it's more recent than the dates you remember. Not necessarily. "X3.4-1977" means "the 1977 version of standard X.34". I'm pretty sure I've got pre-1977 references to ASCII, but those books are in storage. LE> ML>standpoint) has never been a requirement for standards committees! (I LE> ML>have a great dislike, based on many years of past participation, of most LE> ML>computer-related standardizing activities. The standards committee LE> ML>members seem to be more interested in showing how smart they are than in LE> ML>following Euripides' "legacy" law of computer architecture: "The gods LE> ML>visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.") LE> GW> I think of the ANSI screen control sequences as a classic example of LE> GW> that "cleverness", even though they are really DEC terminal control LE> GW> sequences. LE>They are derived from DEC control sequences for the VT-52. The ESC was LE>turned into ESC[ so that DEC wouldn't have an unfair advantage in the LE>market. The VT-100 came *after* the X3.64 standard was defined. GW> That counts in my book as "really". just changing "ESC" to "ESC[" does GW> nothing to change the basis of the control sequences. How a change as GW> simple to incorporate as that can be considered as removing an "unfair GW> advantage" when Joe Campbell's (Op Cit) description of writing the GW> code to interpret it (an input driver) is "a Herculean labor" (it's an GW> American book and I'm retaining the American spelling used therein). Remember, back then you had to use discrete logic to decode the sequences. So even a change that minor did make things a bit tougher. But the point was that by making the change, they made it impossible for any product *currently on the market* to claim to be "ANSI compatible. *Everyone* had to produce new models. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: Shadowshack (1:105/51) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 19-Sep-99 22:48:28 To: Alan Hess 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Alan Hess wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: AH> Whilst masticating on , Roy J. Tellason AH> (1:270/615) wrote to Alan Hess: AH>> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can AH>> the files in the two be combined somehow? *adh* RJT> Those things are doing stuff at two different levels. The RJT> former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking RJT> to, which protocols are assigned to what, etc. wile the other RJT> handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction. RJT> Why would you want to do that, anyway? AH> Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees, AH> so I wondered if they could be combined. Well, whenever I wonder whether I really need some particular file or not, I try renaming it. Usually to something.sav, and see if anything breaks. If so, it's a simple matter to put it back the way it was... --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) 278/111 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Gord Hannah 19-Sep-99 19:01:15 To: Jack Stein 20-Sep-99 07:46:04 Subj: OS/2 Sales Replying to a message from Jack Stein 1:129/171 to Stewart Honsberger, About OS/2 Sales, On Sat Sep 18 1999 SH>> IBM is quietly exceeding its own OS/2 sales expectations. ___________ Snip! ____________O/___________________________________ O\ SH> Why are you being so harsh on them? What have they ever done SH> to you? Consider this Jack, and I agree with you on this call, I go to a computer store, IBM to be exact, place is of no importance, I see absolutely no and I mean NO OS/2 versions, Lotus SmartSuite/2, or any type of software that will run under OS/2, that was bad enough, then I ask a sales person, what would I be looking at for price to have the best OS/2 machine put together with all the bells and whistles, guess what he looked at me as if I was an escapee from the mental asylum, said can't be done, we have not put one of those together for years, and we wont as sales don't warrant us considering it, turned out he was sales manager. I said to him, this is one place I thought I might get support and information on Warp any version, software and hardware concerns, boy was I wrong. Looks like the IBM sales people are getting paid by M$ not IBM. A pity. Just too bad for me. JS> They deprived me of getting a trip guide with a CD in it with JS> software that runs under OS/2, rather than WIN95. They made sure JS> when one goes to Kmart, Babbages, or work, that one will see nothing JS> but WIN95 crap. Try any software Jack, it is getting to the point where one needs to be a programmer to be running OS/2. :-( SH> change market perception, when you can ride the wave? JS> That does not explain why IBM pulled the plug on OS/2 just days JS> before the release of WIN95. Just when OS/2 was gaining tremendous JS> momentum in the market place. Sales where just hitting 1 million JS> copies per month, when IBM switched tactics from non-support, to JS> overtly telling folks OS/2 was NOT for them, that they should NOT JS> use OS/2. Lousy poor marketing strategy IMO. (That is not what I ma thinking it is unacceptable what went through my mind to put in this reply.) JS> IBM is a pack of liars! SH> You're an uninformed pest. I guess we all are Jack, very uninformed. Bull. JS> I don't think so. I don't need "informed", I watched it happen. The proof is in the pudding, and I don't see any pudding do you? SH> Take your FUD elsewhere. I don't want the likes of you in an SH> echo for support of one of my chosen OSs. Stewart, I have received more support in this echo and amongst a few other people that I have picked on, than I ever got for DOS or any other program I am running except Terminate, and TimEd. And in spite of what you may think some has come from Jack and some from you. So we do need Jack here. JS> What you like and what you get are not always the same thing. You JS> should know that by now... True so very true. Hope this helps. Keep us posted. We are a fine board trying to make it better. http://www.pris.bc.ca/ghannah ghannah@pris.bc.ca Gord --- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+ * Origin: Muskeg BBS (c) [Dawson Creek BC Canada] 1-250-786-7921 (1:17/23.1) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Murray Lesser 19-Sep-99 20:49:00 To: Jack Stein 19-Sep-99 20:49:00 Subj: OS/2 Support (Excerpts from a message dated 09-18-99, Jack Stein to Roy J. Tellason. Original topic "File Managers"): Hi Jack-- RJT> "The power" that those folks may hold, such as it is, is a RJT> matter of economics, and of doing things within some fairly RJT> narrowly defined commercial channels -- the home and RJT> smaller-end business market for M$, the medium and larger RJT> business market for IBM, etc. That's why OS/2 isn't being RJT> agressively marketed by IBM, it crosses that boundary. The RJT> whole philosophy behind Linux is outside that framework. JS>I can't agree with you here Roy. Both the home, and >business (large and small) is totally domonated by MS >products. You would be hard pressed to locate a business that was >not running MS OS's. Check on what OS your bank ATM is running under. Most of them still use OS/2 (some of them OS/2 1.3!). Banks that have changed to WinNT have tended to regret it. JS>When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when the >fun, and market manipulation began. IBM was in charge, and they >chose MS to run the software end of the business. That has not >changed, and the result of course is the worlds worst OS dominating >the home and business market. IBM did not "choose" MS. IBM offered three operating systems with the original PC. There was MS DOS, based on a purchased 16-bit operating system cloned from DR CP/M; DR's CPM/86; and a useless OS that could only run Pascal (UCSD). All were at extra cost; no software came with the original PC's. Bill Gates was smart enough to price MS DOS at $50, presumably since he was sure that sales would be very large. The powers that be at DR wanted $200 for theirs and UCSD's system was useless for anyone who wanted to do anything but write their own programs in Pascal! It is not hard to figure out which operating system won that battle :-). I have no love for Microsoft's business practices (the only MS software I have on my system is BASIC PDS v 7.1, vintage 1991, that will produce 16-bit "native OS/2" programs), but Gates was the smartest software artist (as far as seeing where PC's were going) at the time. I give him credit for that, even if you don't. JS>The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM likes >it that way. Hard to promote a product when the company that sells >it doesn't want anyone to use it. IBM gave up on trying to sell OS/2 to the AIHU years ago, as OS/2 became too complex for the couch-potato mentality to handle. It is now a purely commercial system as far as IBM is concerned, and IBM will continue to support it (not _market_ it aggressively) as long as an appreciable number of IBM's major customers continue to use it. I don't do, and never have done, Windows! Personally, I am very pleased that none of my relatives nor friends run OS/2. I joyfully tell them that I can't help them when they run into Windows trouble :-). I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home systems, even if it is never updated! If new applications I may decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2, I will write my own. It isn't any problem for me to avoid using hardware that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned long ago never to be the first kid on the block with the latest computer gadgets or software. I may never update my present hardware unless it dies :-). If I last long enough, I may well be the last noncommercial OS/2 user around! (Will Honea may outlast me!) To find out what IBM is doing with OS/2, you should subscribe to the IBM e-mail marketing newsletter "WARP FM" rather than continuing to rant about what IBM is not doing for you. IBM is running a business, not a religion. There is no reason for IBM not to support WinNT if that is where money is to be made. But the big difference between IBM and MS (which the commercial MS users will eventually learn to their discomfort) is that IBM supports its legacy customers. Regards, --Murray Modem manufacturers have done a bang up job of confusing most everyone. Ev JS> hard core computer folks turn belly up when reading a modem manual... Nowadays it is hard to obtain a modem with a manual. I've got manuals for both my Courier's and for my Sportster. I rarely reference them, but when I do, they usually tell me exactly what I need. Really, though, I think the extinction of modems is in the near future. They just can't meet up with the demands of today's high bandwidth requirements. Of course, if they'd ban advertisements, I bet we wouldn't need half of what we're currently using. C. Gaefke cdgaefke@earthlink.net ... Follow your dreams! --- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Charles Gaefke 19-Sep-99 19:56:23 To: Roy J. Tellason 20-Sep-99 10:22:14 Subj: tcpip and \mptn RJ> Why would you want to do that, anyway? I'd think it has to do with a misconception that consolidated directories take up less space. The average person still doesn't comprehend that just because your hard drive is loaded with stuff doesn't mean it's slowing your system down. C. Gaefke cdgaefke@earthlink.net ... I love my job! Do you? --- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Charles Gaefke 19-Sep-99 20:00:01 To: Jack Stein 20-Sep-99 10:22:14 Subj: Re: File Managers JS> They are dominated by MS OS, and not by a little. What's scary is -everywhere- you look, you are starting to see Microsoft. Money speaks. And wherever MS isn't, it will be soon because MS bought it, or bought into it. C. Gaefke cdgaefke@earthlink.net ... Are you following your dreams? --- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Charles Gaefke 19-Sep-99 20:01:02 To: Jack Stein 20-Sep-99 10:22:14 Subj: Re: File Managers JS> That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally dominates the JS> desktop. That will not happen I'm afraid. There was a good opportunity fr JS> 1991 to 1995, but IBM made certain it did NOT happen. I think Windows has rode the wave.. and from here it's going to go downhill. I don't think OS/2 is going to do it, but it'll help. C. Gaefke cdgaefke@earthlink.net ... Have your dreams come true? --- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Cyrill Vakhneyev 20-Sep-99 10:31:19 To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 20-Sep-99 13:24:17 Subj: DIGCLOCK/ANACLOCK Hello Jonathan! 16 Sep 99 17:35, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote to Cyrill Vakhneyev: CV>> JFYI: Your clocks, both digital and analog, shows me time in CV>> China I think :) TZ is set correctly. JP> Setting TZ is not all that you have to do. 8< === Begin OS/2 Clipboard === >8 SET TZ=MSK-3MSD,3,-1,0,7200,10,-1,0,10800,3600 8< === End OS/2 Clipboard === >8 And RTC in local time. This was enough for 4 last years. Bye! Cyrill [Team OS/2 CV004] ... I smashed a Window and saw... OS/2. --- * Origin: I feel like Popeye! (2:5053/7.1) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Cyrill Vakhneyev 20-Sep-99 11:22:26 To: Alan Hess 20-Sep-99 13:24:17 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Hello Alan! 16 Sep 99 20:39, Alan Hess wrote to all: AH> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can the files AH> in the two be combined somehow? *adh* Yes. You may join both catalogs. Remeber! Set correct paths in config.sys and in sime variables. Bye! Cyrill [Team OS/2 CV004] ... Windows NT: Vapourware of the desperate and scared. --- * Origin: I feel like Popeye! (2:5053/7.1) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Cyrill Vakhneyev 20-Sep-99 11:25:29 To: Alan Hess 20-Sep-99 13:24:17 Subj: NC 4.61 Hello Alan! 18 Sep 99 22:26, Alan Hess wrote to all: AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has anyone AH> installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if it's possible AH> and works that way. Yes. Bye! Cyrill [Team OS/2 CV004] ... OS/2: Bill Gates' worst nightmare! --- * Origin: I feel like Popeye! (2:5053/7.1) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Eddy Thilleman 17-Sep-99 09:35:16 To: Paul Marwick 20-Sep-99 15:34:27 Subj: Editor Hello Paul, 10 Sep 99 09:41, paul marwick wrote to Roy J. Tellason: pm> fed025s.zip (190771 15-06-99) pm> For a small, freeware editor, this one is pretty good. Includes pm> multiple file editing, syntax highlighting, programable keyboard. And pm> its text mode and small enough to install on a boot floppy (:-) I would like this editor. I have searched for it with search engines on internet, but couldn't find it. Can you send it to my email address eddy.thilleman@net.hcc.nl? Thanks in advance. Greetings -=Eddy=- email: eddy.thilleman@net.hcc.nl ... If you can't fix it, sell it as a feature. --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: Windows98 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Eddy Thilleman 18-Sep-99 12:58:10 To: Holger Granholm 20-Sep-99 15:34:27 Subj: Objects Hello Holger, 15 Sep 99 19:26, MIKE RUSKAI wrote to HOLGER GRANHOLM: MR> The most likely reason I can see for that is that your motherboard MR> will only cache 16MB worth of RAM. OS/2 used memory from the top MR> down, so putting 32MB in would make OS/2 use 16MB worth of uncached MR> RAM first. I had forgotten this, this is also a cause for this problem. I'm sorry. Greetings -=Eddy=- email: eddy.thilleman@net.hcc.nl ... "Sorry, I don't do Windows." --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: Windows95 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Frits Spieker 19-Sep-99 07:31:00 To: All 20-Sep-99 15:34:27 Subj: It's over. Period. Hello All! Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2 client. IBM has decided that it is not in their customers interest to release (or have released) another OS/2 client. It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to use in the near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed to do (and good at that too!), it is falling further behind by the day. Trying to install Warp4 on a modern day system is a pain in the proverbial donkey and it is getting harder and harder to find new hardware that is supported. Don't get me wrong: I *love* OS/2 and use it every day. But now IBM has finally made it official that there will never again be a new OS/2 client, there is absolutely to reason anymore for vendors to keep supporting it and the "falling behind" rate will increase dramaticly. Take a look at the following: *********************** In 1998, Stardock took the position that if IBM had no current or projected plans for a new fat OS/2 client, that it was in the interests of OS/2 users and the computing community in general that a third-party should work with IBM to license OS/2 technology on an OEM basis and make a new client available. To that end, late last year, Stardock prepared a business plan and opened negotiations with IBM. The wheels of bureacracy grind slowly, but eventually it was up to "IBM" (executive level) to make the ultimate call on proceeding. For the past 6 months, Stardock and IBM have been working closely together in hammering out the details of an OS/2 client. Everything from potential names down to which minute components would or would not be included. These meetings included multiple in-person meetings with IBM staff and executives here at Stardock's office complex in Livonia Michigan. With an agreement in principle in place, the last major hurdle was this week in which the IBMers in favor of our proposal (mostly in Austin) presented their case to IBM as a whole. The call has been made -- there will be no new client from Stardock and IBM has indicated that they have no plans for an OS/2-based client of their own. Though IBM indicated Stardock had the strongest proposal, they have decided that it is currently not in IBM's or their customer's interests to license any current OS/2 technology on an OEM-basis. There was never any discord between IBM and Stardock over financials, technical viability, target market, or the like. IBM has simply finally made the decision that a new OS/2 client would be in conflict with their strategic directions. Stardock would like to extend a special thanks to all the IBMers (and in particular Ken Christopher and Timothy Sipples) who went above and beyond the call in working with us and going to bat inside IBM. Remember when you meet folks like them, who are and have been intimately involved with OS/2, that their hands may be just as tied as yours when the IBM Corporation as a whole sets policy. Everything that could be done was done. Brad **************************** ... Yes, God has a sense of humor! I'm here, ain't I? Zo! En nu eerst een melk! // Frits // --- GoldEd/2|IM|FMail/2|O/T * Origin: BrainPark3, R'dam. [02-22/+31-10-2427063/MO,2400-64000] (2:286/115) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 20-Sep-99 11:27:18 To: Will Honea 20-Sep-99 15:34:27 Subj: File Managers Will Honea wrote in a message to paul marwick: WH> paul marwick wrote to Roy J. Tellason on 09-17-1999 pm> Hi Roy pm> pm> Replying to a message of Roy J. Tellason to Bat Lang: pm> pm> RJT> On that subject, is there any easy way to deal with *.DSK files, pm> RJT> other than actually making the floppies? pm> pm> It depends on the format of the .dsk (IBM appears to have updated pm> the creation program at some stage). However, for a number of them pm> (certainly including all the current Fixpack images) DIUNPACK can pm> be used to dump the contents to the hard drive. It can be found pm> bundled with any version of FASTKICK, and I'm fairly sure I've seen pm> it on its own as well... WH> At least one group, the LAN division, seems to be using a WH> very old creation program that bombs the LOADDSKF most of us WH> have. I prefer a program called dskxtrct myself as it has a WH> lot more error checking. It's in the QF11 package (hobbes, WH> etc) and works quite well. Hm, would this be it by any chance? DSKXTR12.ZIP 142496 07-06-98 [ ] The DSKXTRCT and DSKCOMPR programs work with DSK diskette image files associated with the IBM programs, SAVEDSKF and LOADDSKF. Looks like I had it here all along...! :-) --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) 278/111 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: James Williams 20-Sep-99 02:57:00 To: Will Honea 20-Sep-99 15:34:27 Subj: Re: Cache WH> Even the hard-copy versions are shooting at a moving target these WH> days. FP11 introduced some spindown functions in the IDE drivers that WH> caused a lot of grief until one of the Austin group posted the info WH> needed to 'fix' the fix - a new, totally undocumented (outside the WH> developers) feature. Where is this fix, how can I get it. I am experiencing spindown problem every time I reboot. thx, James ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader! ___ MultiMail/OS/2 v0.29 --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Roy J. Tellason 20-Sep-99 12:18:03 To: Charles Gaefke 20-Sep-99 17:59:16 Subj: tcpip and \mptn Charles Gaefke wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: RJ> Why would you want to do that, anyway? CG> I'd think it has to do with a misconception that CG> consolidated directories take up less space. Don't they? CG> The average person still doesn't comprehend that just CG> because your hard drive is loaded with stuff doesn't mean it's CG> slowing your system down. "Loaded with stuff" is a good way to put it. It was one thing when running dos, but anything more recent seems to think nothing of tossing literally thousands of files all over the place... The ones that get me in the OS/2 setup are where there's two or three directories in depth, and only one file (if that!) at the bottom of the whole thing. I can't see why this is necessary or desirable. --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615) 278/111 2433/225 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Darren Hamilton 20-Sep-99 14:31:00 To: Coridon Henshaw 20-Sep-99 17:59:16 Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc On 09-15-1999, Coridon Henshaw wrote to Darren Hamilton about Os2clu02 & Utc. CH> The only ways to make OS2CLU's time-related commands get along CH> with every other piece of time-related OS/2 software ever written CH> is to either SET TZ=AAA1 (during DST), or launch OS2CLU's time CH> programs with the /U option. Hello Coridon; What is AAA1? Thanks for the information. Regards, Darren Internet e-mail: darrenah@interchange.ubc.ca * KWQ/2 1.2i * AMD Athlon: Proof that Intel isn't working hard enough. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Darren Hamilton 20-Sep-99 14:45:01 To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollar 20-Sep-99 17:59:16 Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc On 09-16-1999, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote to Darren Hamilton about Os2clu02 & Utc. JP> DH> I find it hard to believe that *every* programmer is querying the RTC JP> DH> rather than using the DosQuerySysInfo API function. JP> JP> You may find it hard to believe, but it's nevertheless largely JP> true. They use DosGetDateTime(), which is a function that reads JP> the "raw" hardware clock, rather than DosQuerySysInfo() which reads JP> the 64-bit clock provided by the OS/2 kernel. This is a "DOS JP> think" legacy. Application and compiler library developers used to JP> read the RTC hardware pretty much directly in DOS, and the habit JP> carried over into OS/2 application and compiler library JP> development. Too bad. This "DOS-think" probably undermines many aspects of a mutitasking OS. :-( JP> ( I did suggest at the beginning of this year that some JP> enterprising EMX C++ hacker patch the EMX runtime library JP> so that it works properly, by ripping out the DOS think JP> code and putting in code to do things correctly. They JP> could start with the GNU libc code and work from there. JP> The irony of EMX C++ is that the GNU libc code for handling JP> time, which EMX C++ *doesn't* use, would actually pretty JP> much work properly and do the right thing on 32-bit OS/2 JP> with little alteration. ) JP> JP> This whole subject was discussed at length in this echo at the JP> beginning of this year. I won't go over it all again in this JP> message, but will mention one thing: You can compromise between JP> having the OS/2 kernel keep time correctly and the broken JP> applications that were written with the "DOS Think" mindset. JP> Simply keep your hardware RTC in local time and set your TZ JP> environment variable so that it indicates that your timezone is JP> always offset 0 hours from UTC. (For example, for Eastern JP> Australian Standard Time use a TZ environment variable value of, JP> say, "EST0EDT0".) The OS2CLU02 commands, and everything else that JP> uses 32-bit OS/2 as it was actually designed to work, will JP> calculate local time correctly, and the broken "DOS think" JP> applications will also calculate local time correctly. I remember this early 1999 thread but did not archive it for future reference. Thank you for the workaround tip. JP> Of course, there are several undesirable side-effects of this JP> compromise: You won't be able to run multiple programs in different JP> timezones concurrently, as one *can* do if 32-bit OS/2's JP> timekeeping mechanism is used as it was actually designed; file and JP> directory timestamps won't be maintained in UTC and thus be JP> portable from system to system independent of timezone (as they JP> should be -- this is another little understood facet of 32-bit JP> OS/2's timekeeping); and *no* program will be able to calculate UTC JP> correctly, so you will not be able to use UTC at all should you JP> desire to do so. JP> JP> However, if you are prepared to live with the above side JP> effects, this compromise should be acceptable. God I hate compromise. ;-) JP> One more thing ... JP> JP> > JdeBP < Continued in the next message. Internet e-mail: darrenah@interchange.ubc.ca * KWQ/2 1.2i * AMD Athlon: Proof that Intel isn't working hard enough. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Darren Hamilton 20-Sep-99 14:56:02 To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollar 20-Sep-99 17:59:16 Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc On 09-16-1999, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote to Darren Hamilton about Os2clu02 & Utc. JP> DH> This includes OS/2 Warp v3.0 (FP 40) time and date functions, [...] JP> JP> You have something to look forward to. JP> JP> Not only do the DATE and TIME commands supplied with the 32-bit JP> CMD command interpreter display the current timezone and support JP> the /N switch (which IBM's documentation describes, you will find, JP> but which the 16-bit CMD does not actually implement), but they JP> *also* operate correctly when it comes to timezone support and the JP> TZ environment variable. So, too, incidentally, do the various JP> date and time sequences in the PROMPT environment variable. JP> JP> Cut and pasted from another window: JP> JP> [C:\]ver JP> CMD 0.1.14 OS/2 2.40.0 JP> [C:\]set TZ JP> TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1 JP> [C:\]prompt $D $T $u [$P] JP> Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]date /n JP> Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 +0100 JP> Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:01 BST [C:\]set TZ=EST-10EDT,M10.5,M3.5 JP> Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 EST [C:\]date /n JP> Current date is: Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:01 +1000 JP> Thu 1999-09-16 07:18:02 EST [C:\]set TZ=GMT0BST,M3.5/1,M10.5/1 JP> Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 BST [C:\]date JP> Current date is: Wed 1999-09-15 22:18:02 +0100 JP> Enter a new date: JP> JP> > JdeBP < JP> JP> --- FleetStreet 1.22 NR JP> * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish (2:257/609.3) JP> Is the 32-bit command interpreter specific to OS/2 v4.0? I tried the DATE /N command with OS/2 v3.0 (FP 40 and 32-bit CMD.EXE file) and received an error message: SYS1036: The system cannot accept the date entered. Regards, Darren Internet e-mail: darrenah@interchange.ubc.ca * KWQ/2 1.2i * AMD Athlon: Proof that Intel isn't working hard enough. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Holger Granholm 19-Sep-99 21:03:00 To: Eddy Thilleman 20-Sep-99 17:59:16 Subj: Objects In a message dated 09-17-99, Eddy Thilleman said to Holger Granholm: HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds HG> with 32 Mb RAM. ET>I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA ET>cards can't address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA ET>SCSI-cards. Excuse me Eddy, but you are confusing the issue. Neither the SCSI controller, nor the video controller are ISA cards here. And neither are old. ET>I've 128 MB RAM and my Netscape v4.04 loads in 7 seconds (I timed ET>it). Bragging, bragging, I didn't find it necessary to specify the CPU nor MHz because I saw this as relative measurements. In case you want to know, this BBS machine runs on an AMD 486DX2/80. For a BBS that is all that is needed. The only reason to up the RAM was to load Navigator and other programs a bit faster. OTOH my work machine runs on an AMD K6-III 400MHz and I'm not complaining about the speed on that. That's my part of bragging. Nor did I actually complain about the speed of this BBS machine. I just told what happened when I increased RAM 16 to 32 Mb. Have a nice day, Holger --- þ MR/2 2.26 þ DOOR (n.) - The way to throw Windows out. * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Ben Ritchey 20-Sep-99 08:42:02 To: Alan Hess 20-Sep-99 17:59:16 Subj: Re^2: NC 4.61 CHRS: IBMPC 2 * Whilst Alan Hess spake unto Ben Ritchey ... AH> What do you think of 4.61? Comparable to Win95 version and stable enough, though they both have a tendency to crash on occasion at certain sites. Still my Browser of choice. :) Be well, Ben aka CMech http://Positron.org/cmech/ --- GoldED/386 3.00.Beta5+ * Origin: FIDONet - The Positronium (1:3803/7) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Mark Ellis 20-Sep-99 06:48:13 To: Mike Ruskai 20-Sep-99 20:42:18 Subj: Re: Objects MR> ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) 4meg 30 MR> ME> pin simms around these parts. MR> MR> I've been buying online since before the Internet craze started. You can MR> always find cheaper prices via mail order, and can hunt for the best one. MR> I just did a quick check, and 32MB of RAM in 4MB 30-pin SIMMs can be had MR> for less than $50. That's US dollars, of course, though I don't think your MR> Canuck money is down that far in comparison these days :) that would be roughly $70 i would guess. Oddly enuff i just sent off an answer to a post in a local for sale group for $10 each so if i can pick up 4 more i will have 32megs total. this should help. Though i must say all the suggestions i've gotten in here have help dramatically. --- * Origin: Electric Prayers - Guelph ON - 519-823-8392 (1:221/802) 1500 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Will Honea 21-Sep-99 01:34:00 To: Roy J. Tellason 21-Sep-99 01:34:00 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Roy J. Tellason wrote to Alan Hess on 09-19-1999 RT> Alan Hess wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: RT> RT> AH> Whilst masticating on , Roy J. Tellason RT> AH> (1:270/615) wrote to Alan Hess: RT> RT> AH>> Do I need both the \tcpip and \mptn trees in Warp 4, or can RT> AH>> the files in the two be combined somehow? *adh* RT> RT> RJT> Those things are doing stuff at two different levels. The RT> RJT> former handles low-level stuff like what hardware it's talking RT> RJT> to, which protocols are assigned to what, etc. wile the other RT> RJT> handles things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction. RT> RJT> Why would you want to do that, anyway? RT> RT> AH> Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees, RT> AH> so I wondered if they could be combined. RT> RT> Well, whenever I wonder whether I really need some RT> particular file or not, I try renaming it. Usually to RT> something.sav, and see if anything breaks. If so, it's a RT> simple matter to put it back the way it was... Yes, and if you guess right you might even get the next fixpak to install correctly but If you don't guess right on which to delete... Will Honea --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Will Honea 21-Sep-99 01:54:01 To: Murray Lesser 21-Sep-99 01:54:01 Subj: OS/2 Support Murray Lesser wrote to Jack Stein on 09-19-1999 ML> I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home ML> systems, even if it is never updated! If new applications I may ML> decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2, I will ML> write my own. It isn't any problem for me to avoid using hardware ML> that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned long ago never to be ML> the first kid on the block with the latest computer gadgets or ML> software. I may never update my present hardware unless it dies ML> :-). If I last long enough, I may well be the last noncommercial ML> OS/2 user around! (Will Honea may outlast me!) Hey, a little repect if you will! As it happens, I took this current contract 18 months ago to maintain an OS/2 desktop app for a big telecom outfit. Supposed to last 6 months, they are now talking about upgrading several thousand desktops to Warp 4 (they still use Warp 3 ) and the app has nearly doubled in size and function with over $2 million budgeted for software updates and extensions next year. I thought I was stepping into an easy job but I've been working my fanny off because all the young twerps want nothing to do with a 'dead OS'. I really appreciate that attitude every week when I go to the bank: supply and demand at work . As long as it's the best tool for the job I'll keep using it and I haven't found a better one yet. And if I ever do get to retire (anybody know a good way to prod the last young one thru college in a reasonable time?) I still have enough goodies from IBM to keep me entertained for a long tiem - I might even re-install PL/I. As for OS/2 being abandoned, that's a matter of perspective. This job is for a company that is big enough to get IBM's attention so I can pick up a phone and get (reasonably) competent help any time I want it. Support looks a lot different when you are one of IBM's targets! As an aside, Murray, if you will think back you will discover that Microsoft did not sell a retail copy of DOS until the 5.0 upgrade came out. They were all bundled with a computer and only IBM sold DOS as a separate product. DOS is probably the most pirated single program ever distributed. Will Honea --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Alan Hess 20-Sep-99 19:23:10 To: Roy J. Tellason 21-Sep-99 07:57:16 Subj: \tcpip and \mptn Whilst masticating on , Roy J. Tellason (1:270/615) wrote to Alan Hess: AH>> Because there are some duplicate files in the various trees, AH>> so I wondered if they could be combined. RJT> Well, whenever I wonder whether I really need some particular file or RJT> not, I try renaming it. Usually to something.sav, and see if anything RJT> breaks. If so, it's a simple matter to put it back the way it was... Great idea! Thanks - I'll try that. *adh* --- Msged/2 TE 05 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Stephen Haffly 19-Sep-99 17:17:01 To: Alan Hess 21-Sep-99 07:57:16 Subj: NC 4.61 On (18 Sep 99) Alan Hess wrote to all... Hi Alan, AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has anyone AH> installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if it's possible AH> and works that way. Yes. it works fine. TTYL, Stephen Team OS/2, Team GEOS OS/2 & New Deal Office 98 - A great combination. ... It works better if you plug it in. --- PPoint 3.00 * Origin: Thunder Mountains Point (1:309/63.4) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: James Mckenzie 20-Sep-99 09:04:00 To: Louis Aubree 21-Sep-99 07:57:16 Subj: Netscape Communicator Hello Louis! 15 Sep 99 21:15, Louis Aubree wrote to James Mckenzie: LA> Tobias Ernst replied to you : JM>>> AS A WORD OF NOTE: IBM IS REQUIRED TO ENFORCE THE FRENCH LAW JM>>> WHICH REQUIRES YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE "INTERNATIONAL:FRANCE" JM>>> VERSION. TE>> TE>> What's behind that law? Why should a person from France be TE>> prohibited from downloading an international English or German TE>> or whatever version if he likes that language better? TE>> TE>> Or does the French version have even less crypotgraphy then TE>> the 40 bits for the rest of the world? LA> No, the French law doesn't rule the rest of the world. Even if some LA> highbrows there believe the Earth is flat with Paris right in the LA> middle... :-)) I'll agree with that statement. LA> No, the French law doesn't prohibit to download any cryptography LA> program from abroad. It used to prohibit to USE any crypting... Then, LA> in 1997, 40 bits keys were allowed. Now, the new rule is that 128 LA> bits keys will be allowed. (Thanks to "Echelon"...). Thanks for the clarification on the law. LA> But of course, we can't download (nor buy...) any U.S. product LA> including crypting with keys longer than 40 bits, not because of LA> French law, but because of U.S. law prohibiting such exports. Every LA> other country in the world (well, almost?) suffers the same U.S. law, LA> so Europe has its own companies specialized in crypting products. Silly isn't it. Try looking at www.fortify.com.... I guess the "crypto-police" forgot that PGP was available and uses up to a 4096 bit key in its latest version. James ... Windows Error #0001: Windows loaded. System in danger! --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: OS/2 Support * Your place for OS/2 information and Files (1:309/63) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Holger Granholm 20-Sep-99 20:54:00 To: Paul Hildebrandt 21-Sep-99 10:29:08 Subj: Re: BGFAX reg -=> Paul Hildebrandt wrote to Holger Granholm <=- PH> I decided not to bother untill I had more money. If you want to PH> contact him by internet here's the info: PH> E-mail: bgfax@blkbox.com PH> http://www.blkbox.com/~bgfax/ Thanks Paul, I've seen his e-mail address already here in the echo but not the http address. Have a nice day, Holger ... If you find yourself in a hole -- stop digging. --- MultiMail/IBMPcDos v0.29 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Charles Gaefke 20-Sep-99 20:47:15 To: Frits Spieker 21-Sep-99 10:29:08 Subj: Re: It's over. Period. FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to use in t FS> near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed to do (and good a FS> that too!), it is falling further behind by the day. Trying to install Warp FS> a modern day system is a pain in the proverbial donkey and it is getting ha FS> and harder to find new hardware that is supported. So... How many people still use DOS? How many people still use Windows 3.1? How many people still use Windows 95? All the above are obsolete and are no longer supported, with some minor exception for Windows 95. I know I'm going to be using OS/2 for a -long- time. Windows just plain doesn't cut it. I use it for games and burning CDs. Everything else is OS/2. C. Gaefke cdgaefke@earthlink.net ... Have your dreams come true? --- Renegade 98-310 Dos/CDRMail v1.23.b1.1 * Origin: LOTL/2 * www.icubed.com/~cdgaefke (1:129/230) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Bert Sainz 19-Sep-99 14:46:26 To: Ruth Argust 21-Sep-99 10:29:08 Subj: Video card > LE> Ah. You haven't heard the old joke: > LE> Q. What's the difference between a computer salesman and a used car > LE> salesman? A. The used car salesman *knows* when he's lieing. > I believe that many computer salesmen have to take an advance test for > their employment. If their IQ exceeds 50, they don't get the job :) I once asked a salesman if the piece of hardware I was looking to buy came with drivers for OS/2. His answer: "OS/2? Could you spell that?" Most salesmen are picked from the shallow end of the gene pool. Bert --- * Origin: (1:135/55) 114/441 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jan Danielsson 21-Sep-99 02:18:09 To: Frits Spieker 21-Sep-99 15:22:24 Subj: It's over. Period. FS> Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2 client. FS> IBM has decided that it is not in their customers interest to FS> release (or have released) another OS/2 client. Did IBM say that? Don't belive everything Stardock say. It's likely that there will not be any new OS/2 client. But saying that there never will be one is just plain dumb. Remember OS/2 for PowerPC? Everyone was waiting for the big release; but it never came and many user shouted "But you promised!!". Had IBM promised? Nope. No one could find any official "we promise" from IBM. Now; try to find the official statement from IBM stating that there _never_ will be any new OS/2 client. You'll find that they have "no current plans" for an OS/2 client. It's important to be realistic; I repeat - it's likely that there will be no new OS/2 client version. However, do not make the mistake of taking whatever comes from Stardock as the absolute truth. I for one will not consider using any other system until: 1. IBM removes the OS/2 Warp4 pages from their web. 2. I find a better system. I'm tired of bumping into Stardock lemmings wherever I turn. I wish everyone who 'follows' Brad Wardell would simply stop using OS/2 and get it over with. Then all the OS/2 users who use OS/2 because they like it (and not because Stardock supported it) can get back to the everyday OS/2 computing. Just as yesterday, and the day before that, and the day before that. When the time comes to switch to another system, we'll do that. But we won't just because Stardock says it's time. If I'm not wrong, you'll say that IBM never really supported OS/2. IBM will kill Linux. There's no chance there will be a new OS/2 version. OS/2 is dead. And all that. I'm guessing you will not listen to reason, so I'll simply do what I always do when I know there's no end to a discussion. I'll give you the final punch, I'll read what you have to say, but I won't answer it unless you ask me a specific non-flame question in which case I'll answer it by netmail. Good luck with whatever new system you chose. --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: Usch, det finns. (2:205/323) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Eddy Thilleman 20-Sep-99 23:46:13 To: Mike Ruskai 21-Sep-99 19:35:23 Subj: Objects Hello Mike, 18 Sep 99 00:00, MIKE RUSKAI wrote to EDDY THILLEMAN: MR> The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or not they perform MR> bus mastering DMA. Yes, now I remember that. :) Another cause of this symptom is when the mainboard can't cache all the memory because of too few TAG RAM chips (as I remember now). ... Rain: The gods are washing their windows. --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: Windows98 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Russell Tiedt 19-Sep-99 09:02:05 To: Eddy Thilleman 21-Sep-99 23:45:25 Subj: Objects Eddy Thilleman wrote in a message to Holger Granholm: HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment. HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds HG> with 32 Mb RAM. ET> I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA ET> cards can't address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA ET> SCSI-cards. Does this include Adaptec 1542B SCSI cards. Go well, and God bless, Russell --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+ * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Russell Tiedt 19-Sep-99 09:08:10 To: Cyrill Vakhneyev 21-Sep-99 23:45:25 Subj: Installing Fixpack? Cyrill Vakhneyev wrote in a message to Russell Tiedt: CV> 02 Sep 99 17:26, Russell Tiedt wrote to Cyrill Vakhneyev: RT>> I get the following error on running "fpinst WARP3" CSF0257: No RT>> product has been selected. CV>> Use latest kicker package. For example 1.39 or newer. RT> What I was using was CSF140.exe, and the fixpack images where unpacked RT> to C:\XRUW038\FIX\. RT> Disk images are in C:\XRUW038\, maybe I should copy them to C:\FIX\, I RT> don't know. Also I don't have the time right now to play with it RT> further. CV> Grrrr... If you _really_ want to set up fixpack from HDD do the CV> next: 1) unpack _any_ faskick in temp catalog CV> 2) unpack all fixpack images in same place CV> 3) unpack latest CSF in _same_ place CV> run fix.cmd CV> enjoy. CV> Another way. Read manuals from CSF. Some cool hints are CV> described in. I take it that by catalog you mean directory? When I unpack the disks, do I allow them to create subdirectories from this directory? The only way that seems likely to work from reading the manuals that makes any sort of sense is installing from floppy images, which I would rather not do, but will do as a last resort, that is if I don't move to Linux first. Go well, and God bless, Russell --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+ * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Russell Tiedt 19-Sep-99 14:28:00 To: All 21-Sep-99 23:45:25 Subj: Virus? Hi, What is the effect of the following virus on OS/2? Nothing I suspect but this is the second time I have received an e-mail with the following attachment. Wonder how long it will take Micro-Sloth to fix Outlook and Outlook Express so that their address books are secure? V I R U S A L E R T Our viruschecker found a VIRUS in a mail from support@intekom.co.za to you. Delivery of the email was stopped! The following viruses were found:- { I-Worm.PrettyPark} Please contact the sender for details This is the second such message I have received inside a week. Go well, and God bless, Russell --- LoraBBS-OS/2 v2.42B1+ * Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7106/23) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: MIKE RUSKAI 20-Sep-99 18:28:00 To: CHARLES GAEFKE 21-Sep-99 23:45:25 Subj: Re: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n Some senseless babbling from Charles Gaefke to Jack Stein on 09-19-99 19:54 about Re: Kib, Mib, gib: 1024^n... JS> Modem manufacturers have done a bang up job of confusing most everyone. Ev JS> hard core computer folks turn belly up when reading a modem manual... CG> Nowadays it is hard to obtain a modem with a manual. I've got CG> manuals for both my Courier's and for my Sportster. I rarely reference CG> them, but when I do, they usually tell me exactly what I need. My two Couriers are the only modems I've ever bought that came with a useful manual. CG> Really, though, I think the extinction of modems is in the near CG> future. They just can't meet up with the demands of today's high CG> bandwidth requirements. Of course, if they'd ban advertisements, I CG> bet we wouldn't need half of what we're currently using. Only if the only use you have for the Internet is web browsing. That's not even my primary use. I had a cable modem for two years (moved outside the service area), so I can say from experience that no one who uses the Internet for more than 5 minutes a day would consider any modem fast enough, when presented with the high-speed alternatives. I'll be moving again in a few months, and hopefully DSL will be available there by then. Using a modem is painful, now. Mike Ruskai thannymeister@yahoo.com ... Alzheimer's advantage - new friends every day. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v3.0pr2 * Origin: FIDO QWK MAIL & MORE! WWW.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:3603/140) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Rosenau 21-Sep-99 12:30:22 To: Mark Ellis 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: Re: Objects ME> This was my next question. I never use the warpcenter so I was ME> wondering if i could safely turn it off. I dont want the ME> launchpad either.It seems i do everything off the desktop. I fit ME> lots there by making the icons invisible so i just have text ME> showing. It's on you to remove or insert the keywords in autostart line in config.sys to remove/insert both/none or one of it. HR>> Then if you don't like the WPS change HR>> RUNWORKPLACE to x:\os2\cmd.exe ME> Will I be able to open multiple windows if I do this? Dos and ME> os/2 ones? Yes. protshell activates the PM. This is what you really needs to have multiple windows. If you change this line to cmd.exe - or a program of your own you'll lost the ability of PM. You don't loose the ability to starte multiple programs - but you can't start them in foreground. So you can't switch to. runworkplace defines as default the WPS. This is the object oriented shell. It defines your desktop and all icons on it. If you replaces this with cmd.exe or an PM program of your own you'll lost a lot of comfort. You can't use the font- and color palette, all objects in connections folder (you have to use the commandline programs), ....... Don't wouder that pmshell is started twice. The first one (protshell) activates the basic graphical functions (PM). This gets you the ability to start any PM program, multiple windows and full screens, DOS and Windows Programs. The second one activates the WPS. Now you have a lot of icons representing folders, files and other objects. ME> I was originally thinking of going to do/desqview, Urghs! ME> but i figured i should try and learn os/2 a bit more. All I need ME> is text based windows and the ability to jump between them. Search for tshell in your neighbours mailboxes or in internet. There are some other shell to replace the WPS and/or the PM. HR>> But the most practicabe way is: inser more RAM (a total of 32 MB HR>> is recommendet, a total of 64MB is sufficient) ME> drats, I keep hearing this :) Yeah. The full comfort of OS/2 is in WPS and its object oriented handling. It will be a little complicated to understand the full spectrum of its capabilities but if you had done the first step you'll find more and more ways to become simple and quick handling on your data and programs. The crux is it is memory hungry. If you can spend 32 or better 64 MB RAM to your computer I recommend you to try to work with WPS. Activate the learn program and play with it. After a short time you would never missing the WPS. At least you would organise your virtual desktop better and easier than your real office! --- Sqed/32 1.14/development * Origin: Schont die Umwelt: Vermeidet DOSen (2:2476/493) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Rosenau 21-Sep-99 13:22:25 To: Mark Ellis 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: Re: Objects MR>> Opening the data file itself will load the program it's MR>> associated with, MR>> with it as a parameter. ME> I do this now. Once I found an association editor it made it easy ME> enuff for me to do. On WPS you don't use such thing. You can do it simply by opening the program object settings and associate the types and or classes of objects they have to launch for. For your own (also non standard data objects you my assign a class to it (open the settings of that object to do so) and then you my assign that class to any program that should launch to. Play a little with the learn program that comes with OS/2 to become a feeling for all that you can do without special programs. MR>> Memory is quite cheap these days. I spent over $1200 on the 32MB MR>> I put in that 486, but I recently spent less than $100 for an MR>> additional 128MB for this machine. ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) ME> 4meg 30 pin simms around these parts. Hey, this are prices from some years ago. Lokk for announces in your daily and on some pages in WEB to find cheap used memory. --- Sqed/32 1.14/development * Origin: Schont die Umwelt: Vermeidet DOSen (2:2476/493) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Rosenau 21-Sep-99 13:34:12 To: Russell Tiedt 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: StarOffice? RT> Hi, RT> A freind put a copy of StarOffice 50.01 on a CD-ROM and I would RT> like to install it but I seem unable to get a registration code RT> from the "stardivision.com" web site for some reason. Does anyone RT> have any idea how I might get this registed so I can look at it. Go to SUN, the new owner of staroffice: http://www.sun.com/ to download SO 5.1a or to order a CD containing all versions (OS/2, Win, Linux, Solaris) for $9,95 + shipping. This version is really free. No key needed. --- Sqed/32 1.14/development * Origin: Schont die Umwelt: Vermeidet DOSen (2:2476/493) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Rosenau 21-Sep-99 13:10:04 To: MIKE RUSKAI 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: Objects MR> The issue with ISA cards, incidentally, is whether or not they MR> perform bus mastering DMA. Since ISA slots only have a 24-bit MR> DMA available to them, they limit OS/2's direct addressing MR> ability to 16MB. Anything above that is used as fast swap space. But if you have an adaptec you can use the switch /DBUFF on your driver to become double buffering and so you can use the full memory amount. This will slow down any disk transfer but tunes the memory usage up. --- Sqed/32 1.14/development * Origin: Schont die Umwelt: Vermeidet DOSen (2:2476/493) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Rosenau 21-Sep-99 13:19:12 To: Dan Egli 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: OS/2 and SoundBlaster AWE64 DE> Ok all. How do I get my SoundBlaster AWE64 configured w/ Warp 4? ----------------------------Abbeiáen----------------------- SB326411.ZIP 1763503 25.02.98 Sound Blaster Drivers SB 16, AWE32, AWE64 and Utilities v1.1 Here is Daniel Caetano. I'm a brazilian user of OS/2 and I become concerned with Creative Labs' decision to stop supporting OS/2, bu once the last (and I mean *the last ones*) drivers are working fin under OS/2, there is no reason for killing myself. Well... What is this "package"? This package is a "union" for FOU packages that Creative labs distributed, but the FOUR have problem on its instalations. So, I decided to eliminate the problems on instalation and try to make it easy, too. Well, I hope you all enjoy that, because I think this is the last time that we will see something from Creative for OS/2! And YES! This is REAL. The support for AWE32 of this version *WORKS* with all AWE64 Cards on the market up today (24/02/1998). ----------------------------Abbeiáen----------------------- DE> And if possible, I do NOT want the mmpm stuff installed. I never DE> use it so its a waste of space. If absolutely necessary, I'll DE> install it. But Prefferable solutions will give me access to the DE> SB Card in programs w/o installing all the PM controlls, and the DE> wav and AVI files. Do you drive your car without wheels? You'll need MMPM - but not the waves AVI and bitmaps that comes with. --- Sqed/32 1.14/development * Origin: Schont die Umwelt: Vermeidet DOSen (2:2476/493) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Herbert Rosenau 21-Sep-99 13:21:26 To: Alan Hess 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: NC 4.61 AH> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has AH> anyone installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if AH> it's possible and works that way. I'd installed it in another directory - and it uses the bookmarks and other settings from 4.04 automatically. --- Sqed/32 1.14/development * Origin: Schont die Umwelt: Vermeidet DOSen (2:2476/493) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Tobias Ernst 21-Sep-99 22:31:20 To: Alan Hess 22-Sep-99 03:20:18 Subj: NC 4.61 * Originally by: Herbert Rosenau (2:2476/493), 21 Sep 99 13:21. Hallo Alan! AH>> I've just downloaded the latest Communicator/2 4.61 beta. Has AH>> anyone installed it over 4.04? I'm considering doing that, if AH>> it's possible and works that way. I have installed the 4.61 release over 4.04 yesterday without any problems up to now. My 4.04 originally was installed parallel to 2.02 (i.E. in another directory), and that configuration remained, i.E. I can now either use 4.61 or 2.02, and they share the bookmark file. I don't think you should install 4.61 parallel to 4.04, because 4.04 is not worth keeping. 4.04 is as ressource-hogging as 4.61, but has more bugs. 2.02, on the other hand, is worth keeping because it starts up faster :-). Viele Grüße, Tobias --- Msged/BSD TE 06 (pre) * Origin: Running FreeBSD 3.2 (2:2476/418) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: John Thompson 21-Sep-99 20:13:00 To: Eddy Thilleman 22-Sep-99 06:57:06 Subj: Objects In a message to Holger Granholm, Eddy Thilleman wrote re: Objects HG> Just going from 16 to 32 Mb here was a big disappointment. HG> While Netscape loads in 32 seconds with 16 Mb RAM it takes 70 seconds HG> with 32 Mb RAM. ET> I recognize this only as a symptom of an ISA card, some old ISA cards can't ET> address more than 16 MB RAM, especially old ISA SCSI-cards. Not ISA cards in general, but rather ISA bus-mastering cards. I have an ISA SCSI HBA and as long as I don't enable bus-mastering it has no problem addressing over 16MB of memory. * KWQ/2 1.2i * Internet: John.Thompson@ibm.net --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: Spare Parts BBS - Appleton WI (920-731-7697) (1:139/0) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Murray Lesser 22-Sep-99 06:51:00 To: Will Honea 22-Sep-99 06:51:00 Subj: OS/2 Support (Excerpts from a message dated 09-21-99, Will Honea to Murray Lesser) Hi Will-- ML> I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home ML> systems, even if it is never updated! If new applications I may ML> decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2, I will ML> write my own. It isn't any problem for me to avoid using hardware ML> that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned long ago never to be ML> the first kid on the block with the latest computer gadgets or ML> software. I may never update my present hardware unless it dies ML> :-). If I last long enough, I may well be the last noncommercial ML> OS/2 user around! (Will Honea may outlast me!) WH>Hey, a little repect if you will! As it happens, I took this current >contract 18 months ago to maintain an OS/2 desktop app for a big >telecom outfit. Supposed to last 6 months, they are now talking >about upgrading several thousand desktops to Warp 4 (they still use >Warp 3 ) and the app has nearly doubled in size and function with >over $2 million budgeted for software updates and extensions next >year. I thought I was stepping into an easy job but I've been >working my fanny off because all the young twerps want nothing to do >with a 'dead OS'. I really appreciate that attitude every week when >I go to the bank: supply and demand at work . I've forgotten the exact number (I think it was around $18,000/month in US money) that David told me PL/I contract programmers in London were getting for Y2K work. Even COBOL programmers are getting rich these days (at least until the end of the year!). It seems that it really pays to be obsolete :-). WH>As long as it's the best tool for the job I'll keep using it and I >haven't found a better one yet. And if I ever do get to retire >(anybody know a good way to prod the last young one thru college in a >reasonable time?) I still have enough goodies from IBM to keep me >entertained for a long tiem - I might even re-install PL/I. You will just have to tough it out. I retired shortly after I made the last tuition payment for my younger daughter. WH>As for OS/2 being abandoned, that's a matter of perspective. This >job is for a company that is big enough to get IBM's attention so I >can pick up a phone and get (reasonably) competent help any time I >want it. > Support looks a lot different when you are one of IBM's targets! WH>As an aside, Murray, if you will think back you will discover that >Microsoft did not sell a retail copy of DOS until the 5.0 upgrade >came out. They were all bundled with a computer and only IBM sold >DOS as a separate product. DOS is probably the most pirated single >program ever distributed. Yeah, but IBM was selling it as a separate product long before anybody else made a computer that could use it. IIRC, only IBM and Compaq modified Microsoft's DOS to improve the performance of their hardware. All the "clone" manufacturers took it just as it came from MS. According to an old DESQview386 manual I have, both IBM's and Compaq's DOS were "tuned" to their specific hardware, so their machines running under their versions of DOS had much better performance than did the infringing clones running under Microsoft's. These measurements were made after DOS 5.0 came out, so users of IBM or Compaq machines were very foolish trying to save a buck by stealing the MS "generic" version from a friend, or buying it from their local discount store :-(. Regards, --Murray ___ * MR/2 2.25 #120 * Fidonet is almost like having a social life --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jeffrey J. Counsil 21-Sep-99 11:36:26 To: Mark Ellis 22-Sep-99 13:35:26 Subj: Re: Objects On Stardate 17 Sep 99 08:19:14, Mark Ellis Communicated the Following To Mike Ruskai, Regarding Re: Objects... ME> You must live in a good area :) It would cost me $100 for (4) 4meg 30 pin ME> simms around these parts. How would $35 U.S. sound? --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: Way Out There!...The StarPort 1-717-753-8120 (1:268/402) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Coridon Henshaw 21-Sep-99 16:22:01 To: Frits Spieker 22-Sep-99 13:35:26 Subj: It's over. Period. On Sunday September 19 1999 at 07:31, Frits Spieker wrote to All: FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to FS> use in the near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed FS> to do (and good at that too!), it is falling further behind by the FS> day. I agree. OS/2 works fine, and will continue to work fine, on '94-era hardware. Unfortunately, '94-era hardware is rather hard to come by these days. Sure, it still works with modern hard drives, CDROMs, keyboards, mice (most of them, at least) and floppy drives. But on the other hand, finding supported sound and video hardware very difficult at best. And forget about support for any of the new and interesting devices such as Firewire DASD and portable MP3 players. I've been looking at alternative OSes for some time now, and generally speaking, I can only see two: Linux and WinNT. Linux is in the same position as OS/2 was in the months before Win95's release; it is gaining momentum and support (both in terms of hardware and software). With Win2000 just around the corner, I am concerned that Linux may repeat history and suffer the same fate as OS/2 Warp 3 suffered when Win95 was released. In some ways Linux is a step backwards from OS/2. For example, the one of best ways to run WIN3.1 apps under Linux is to install WinOS2 (!) inside DOSEMU. While improving, Linux's legacy software support (DOS/WIN3.1) leaves much to be desired--and Linux applications don't exist in large enough numbers for legacy support to be irrelevant. WinNT has its own drawbacks: hardware requirements, price, questionable hardware support for non server-grade equipment, poor legacy DOS support (forget DOS games...) and the fact that it's sold by Microsoft. Not to mention that WinNT is on the verge of being obsoleted by Win2000. Basically speaking, anyone who wants full hardware and software support must buy Windows 9X. I'm not going to stoop that low unless I have no other choice. My poison, you ask? If Mandrake Linux doesn't work out, I'll be forced to switch to NT. :-( --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: Life sucks and then you croak. (1:250/820) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Coridon Henshaw 21-Sep-99 17:13:03 To: Charles Gaefke 22-Sep-99 13:35:26 Subj: File Managers On Sunday September 19 1999 at 20:01, Charles Gaefke wrote to Jack Stein: JS>> That will not happen unless or until WIN no longer totally dominates JS>> the desktop. That will not happen I'm afraid. There was a good JS>> opportunity fr 1991 to 1995, but IBM made certain it did NOT happen. CG> I think Windows has rode the wave.. and from here it's going to go CG> downhill. I think that depends on the outcome of the various MS antitrust suits. If MS gets hammered, WinXX could end up very much dead. If MS gets off scot free, or even with another slap on the wrist, the Microsoft monopoly will grow explosively, likely in areas beyond the computing field. If Linux can sustain its growth rate for another few years, Microsoft just might have something to worry about. OS/2 is out of the race. --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: Life sucks and then you croak. (1:250/820) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Stewart Honsberger 22-Sep-99 10:11:11 To: Russell Tiedt 22-Sep-99 14:37:11 Subj: Virus? 19 Sep 99 14:28, Russell Tiedt wrote to All: RT> What is the effect of the following virus on OS/2? Nothing I suspect RT> but this is the second time I have received an e-mail with the RT> following attachment. My guess is nothing, but you could try to find one of those online virus references online, or grab a virus software with a searchable database. RT> Wonder how long it will take Micro-Sloth to fix Outlook and Outlook RT> Express so that their address books are secure? Never, I'd imagine. They've integrated it (and IE) so far into the core OS, they couldn't pull it out with the jaws of life. Stewart Honsberger, blackdeath@tinys.oix.com ... FRENCH TICKLER.....A guy with a feather from Paris -!- GOPGP/2 v1.23 --- Msged/2 TE 05 * Origin: Blackdeath BBS - Private (1:229/604) 600 1500 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Holger Granholm 21-Sep-99 21:05:00 To: Murray Lesser 22-Sep-99 14:37:11 Subj: OS/2 Support In a message dated 09-19-99, Murray Lesser said to Jack Stein: Hi Murray, ML> I don't do, and never have done, Windows! Personally, I am very ML>pleased that none of my relatives nor friends run OS/2. I joyfully ML>tell them that I can't help them when they run into Windows trouble ML>:-). Heh, heh, same here. It saves one a lot of trouble. However, I admit that I still have that old VolksWagen named WfWg 3.11 installed on my work machine. Only my grandson uses it though for his schoolwork. Have a nice day, Holger ___ * MR/2 2.26 * Speed Kills - Use Windows! --- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Steve McCrystal 21-Sep-99 06:42:01 To: Will Honea 22-Sep-99 17:54:18 Subj: Cache ; In a msg of , Will Honea writes to Murray Lesser: ; Will, WH> Even the hard-copy versions are shooting at a moving target these WH> days. FP11 introduced some spindown functions in the IDE drivers WH> that caused a lot of grief until one of the Austin group posted WH> the info needed to 'fix' the fix - a new, totally undocumented WH> (outside the developers) feature. If you have any documentation on that 'feature', as well as the workaround, could you post it or email it to me at stevem@execpc.com? -[Steve]- --- GoldED/2 3.0.1/# * Origin: -[Steve's Place]- New Berlin, WI (FidoNet 1:154/731.2) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Eddy Thilleman 21-Sep-99 10:00:18 To: Louis Aubree 22-Sep-99 20:42:19 Subj: Netscape Communicator Hello Louis, 15 Sep 99 21:15, Louis Aubree wrote to James Mckenzie: LA> in 1997, 40 bits keys were allowed. Now, the new rule is that 128 LA> bits keys will be allowed. (Thanks to "Echelon"...). You can use fortify to enable the 'strong' encryption key in the international version of Netscape. See http://www.fortify.net Greetings -=Eddy=- email: eddy.thilleman@net.hcc.nl ... Windows: The Gates of hell. --- GoldED/2 3.0.1 * Origin: Windows98 is a graphic DOS extender (2:500/143.7) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Will Honea 22-Sep-99 20:50:00 To: Steve McCrystal 22-Sep-99 20:50:00 Subj: Cache Steve McCrystal wrote to Will Honea on 09-21-1999 SM> If you have any documentation on that 'feature', as well as the SM> workaround, could you post it or email it to me at SM> stevem@execpc.com? Steve, as I understand it, the driver attempts to use the spin-down as part of the file system clean up during ACD or shutdown processing. Some disks then like that state so well they refuse to wake up until you cycle the power . The only workaround available is to add /!SHUTDOWN to the IBM1S506.ADD line. (or is the /!SPINDOWN ?????) Search dejanews for SHUTDOWN - one of the Austin troops posted a little info including the above a couple of weeks back. Will Honea --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Rob Basler 22-Sep-99 22:49:02 To: Frits Spieker 23-Sep-99 08:43:18 Subj: It's over. Period. FS>Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2 FS>client. IBM has decided that it is not in their customers FS>interest to release (or have released) another OS/2 client. Well, it is official. The sky is still falling. Initial reports of this unusual phenomena started pouring in to these news offices at about the time of the release of OS/2 2.0. Since that time the sky has continued to fall dramatically, on a regular basis. We recommend that OS/2 users who are not used to this phenomena move immediately to shelters, safely away from their modems, until this latest wave subsides. On a more serious note, there appears now to be some significant disagreement over what may or may not have happened regarding the meeting with IBM and Stardock. IBM has not said there will never be a new client. Some have said the meeting never took place. Meanwhile I am enjoying the preparations for the very sunny day when I receive my new SMP machine to go with my brand-new OS/2 client software (OS/2 Warp Server for e-Business). Oh happy day! Rob. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Windows Backup Started. Insert disk 1 of 38544. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Frog Hollow Port Moody BC 604-469-0264/0284 (1:153/290) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Ruth Argust 22-Sep-99 23:22:09 To: Bert Sainz 23-Sep-99 10:24:28 Subj: Video card Hi Bert. Bert Sainz wrote in a message to Ruth Argust: BS> I once asked a salesman if the piece of hardware I was looking to BS> buy came with drivers for OS/2. His answer: "OS/2? Could you spell BS> that?" :) I must admit that's one I have never heard. BS> Most salesmen are picked from the shallow end of the gene pool. Where they landed on their heads from a long fall off the diving board... *ruth* --- * Origin: The Great White South (1:2404/201) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Sean Dennis 22-Sep-99 22:17:22 To: Charles Gaefke 23-Sep-99 10:24:28 Subj: It's over. Period. Hello Charles. 20 Sep 99 20:47, you wrote to Frits Spieker: CG> All the above are obsolete and are no longer supported, with some CG> minor exception for Windows 95. CG> I know I'm going to be using OS/2 for a -long- time. Windows just CG> plain doesn't cut it. I use it for games and burning CDs. CG> Everything else is OS/2. As soon as I get SCSI, I'll be burning CDs too. ;) Later, Sean ... "So you've come to say you're very sorry" -- Type O Negative --- AfterHours/2 and GoldED/2 : Enjoying the silence. * Origin: a..f..t..e..r..h..o..u..r..s..2..b..b..s (1:395/610) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Sean Dennis 22-Sep-99 22:18:14 To: Bert Sainz 23-Sep-99 10:24:28 Subj: Video card Hello Bert. 19 Sep 99 14:46, you wrote to Ruth Argust: BS> I once asked a salesman if the piece of hardware I was looking to buy BS> came with drivers for OS/2. His answer: "OS/2? Could you spell that?" BS> Most salesmen are picked from the shallow end of the gene pool. Time for some chlorine in the gene pool. ;) Later, Sean ... "Like to get to know you well" -- Howard Jones --- AfterHours/2 and GoldED/2 : Enjoying the silence. * Origin: a..f..t..e..r..h..o..u..r..s..2..b..b..s (1:395/610) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Sean Dennis 22-Sep-99 22:19:26 To: Jan Danielsson 23-Sep-99 10:24:28 Subj: It's over. Period. Hello Jan. 21 Sep 99 02:18, you wrote to Frits Spieker: JD> If I'm not wrong, you'll say that IBM never really supported OS/2. JD> IBM will kill Linux. There's no chance there will be a new OS/2 That would be a really damned stupid move on IBM's part to kill an open source OS. Do you understand how Linux is designed? It's not a closed system like OS/2. So, IBM can't kill off Linux. This isn't a flame, this is a fact. Sean ... "Like to get to know you well" -- Howard Jones --- AfterHours/2 and GoldED/2 : Enjoying the silence. * Origin: a..f..t..e..r..h..o..u..r..s..2..b..b..s (1:395/610) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Torsten Balle Koefoed 16-Sep-99 22:44:29 To: Nick Andre 23-Sep-99 15:28:25 Subj: MP3 setup Hi there Nick! Replying to a message of Nick Andre to All: NA> I *need* software that will record from the Line In jack and NA> encode direct to MP3. I'm afraid you won't find anything. You will to record to wav-files and then encode to MP3. The choices for recording are limited, but if you don't mind using text mode you can get TWAVE123.ZIP from http://hobbes.nmsu.edu. This program uses DART so you shouldn't need MMOS2. For MP3 encoding the best choice is BladeEncoder, which you'll find at http://bladeenc.home.ml.org/. There's also the old port of the Fraunhofer L3enc, but the sound quality does not match with BladeEncoder. I don't know if it's faster, though. Yours etc. Torsten Balle Koefoed --- FleetStreet 1.22+ * Origin: Waiting for the punchline... (2:238/202.3) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Steve McCrystal 22-Sep-99 06:48:26 To: Jan Danielsson 23-Sep-99 16:33:18 Subj: It's over. Period. ; In a msg of , Jan Danielsson writes to Frits Spieker: ; Jan, FS>> Well, it is official now. There will never be another OS/2 FS>> client. IBM has decided that it is not in their customers FS>> interest to release (or have released) another OS/2 client. JD> Did IBM say that? No, actually Brad Wardell said it (almost) and Fritz paraphrased it (NOT quoted it). JD> Don't belive everything Stardock say. Or do as I do... don't believe anything Brad Wardell says unless it is confirmed by at least two *reliable* sources that know what they are talking about! JD> It's likely that there will not be any new OS/2 client. But saying JD> that there never will be one is just plain dumb. Indeed! JD> It's important to be realistic; I repeat - it's likely that JD> there will be no new OS/2 client version. However, do not make JD> the mistake of taking whatever comes from Stardock as the JD> absolute truth. Right! In fact, Dan Casey, President of V.O.I.C.E., posted a note to USENET yesterday that makes Brad Wardell look like he's practicing up for a position in the Clinton administration. It seems, according to RELIABLE sources, that the meeting that Brad babbled about at length NEVER TOOK PLACE! It was cancelled due to the weather, or some such, and NO decision has been made, at least no official decision, at this point. The best news to come from the posting I mention above is that Stardock's proposal was not the only one submitted, and others ARE under consideration! I find that relevent because while I would love to see a new, updated Warp client, I would prefer it not come from a GAME supplier who has already demonstrated their inability to release APPLICATION software that works, and their complete refusal to fix it! I currently own, or have owned, 3 Stardock packages (Process Commander, which doesn't work at all, PMINEWS, which works but is infested with serious bugs, and I sold Object Desktop 2.0 (a package of bells and whistles that costs more than Warp 4 does) to someone who just had to have it when it caused problems far too numerous to list here. All of these packages are essentially unsupported by Stardock, at least as far as I can determine. In any case, requests for help making them work have been ignored for *years*! Yes, I would like to see a new Warp client. No, I would not like to see one from Stardock, who refuses to fix what they have ALREADY sold, and who would likely deep-throat us with their bloated Object Desktop system killer 'add-on', and then refuse to fix what they had broken. I'd much rather the new client came from some RELIABLE ISV, who would provide at least basic support in the form of bug fixes. Fortunately, at least one such reliable ISV has submitted a proposal. There may be others. I can only hope that some of the powers that be at IBM have spent their money on Stardock software in the past. That *should* simplify the selection process! -[Steve]- --- GoldED/2 3.0.1/# * Origin: -[Steve's Place]- New Berlin, WI (FidoNet 1:154/731.2) 3613/666 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Murray Lesser 23-Sep-99 08:01:00 To: Coridon Henshaw 23-Sep-99 08:01:00 Subj: It's not over yet (Excerpts from a message dated 09-21-99, Coridon Henshaw to Frits Spieker, original topic: It's over. Period) Hi Coridon-- FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to FS> use in the near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed FS> to do (and good at that too!), it is falling further behind by the FS> day. CH>I agree. OS/2 works fine, and will continue to work fine, on '94-era > hardware. Unfortunately, '94-era hardware is rather hard to come >by these days. Sure, it still works with modern hard drives, >CDROMs, keyboards, mice (most of them, at least) and floppy drives. >But on the other hand, finding supported sound and video hardware >very difficult at best. And forget about support for any of the new >and interesting devices such as Firewire DASD and portable MP3 >players. Your cutoff date is a little early. Warp 4 installed easily on my vintage-97 ThinkPad 365XD, with a little help from the ThinkPad utilities that I got from the Device Driver Pak. In any case, OS/2 was designed, originally, as an "Industrial Strength" operating system for commercial users, and (with the exception of a short interval around the time of the Warp 3 release) large commercial users are still the only ones in IBM's self-defined market area for it. I doubt if IBM will ever again attempt to market OS/2 to the AIHUs or to the computer hobbyists. My "evidence" is in IBM's current pricing policy for its newer OS/2 software, such as VA PL/I v 2.1 and Warp Server for e-Business; these are priced considerably above what most inhabitants of this echo are willing to pay. I doubt that any large commercial users want their employees playing with videos or digital music on company time. As far as new devices are concerned, if those users want firewire DASD, drivers will be supplied. Unlike other operating system vendors I won't name, IBM does not abandon its large legacy customers! CH>My poison, you ask? If Mandrake Linux doesn't work out, I'll be >forced to switch to NT. :-( Goodbye. Those of us who consider OS/2 to be a tool, not a toy, will stick with it. Regards, --Murray ___ * MR/2 2.25 #120 * Never get carried away by a flood of logic --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Will Honea 23-Sep-99 19:28:00 To: Rob Basler 23-Sep-99 19:28:00 Subj: It's over. Period. Rob Basler wrote to Frits Spieker on 09-22-1999 RB> Well, it is official. The sky is still falling. Initial reports RB> of this unusual phenomena started pouring in to these news offices RB> at about the time of the release of OS/2 2.0. Since that time the RB> sky has continued to fall dramatically, on a regular basis. Correlate the bursts of chicken little with the release of Microsoft products - the match in the time domain is interesting. Let's see, W2K is due when??? Will Honea --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Darren Ryall 23-Sep-99 12:06:28 To: Bob Wright 23-Sep-99 23:21:15 Subj: Re: Need OS/2 -=> Quoting Bob Wright to Darren Ryall <=- BW> It's definitely down. There was an announcement there back in the BW> Spring that it would be closing. Reason - everything that was there BW> could also be found on the internet... (or on the Toronto BBS, which BW> IIRC wasn't closing). Ah, and I moved in the meantime, so didn't get to see the message. =p Guess that I can delete it from the dialing directories that I have then.. ÄÄÄÄÄÄ 116 days, 4 hours, 0 minutes, and 42 seconds until January 1, 2000. Are you ready for Y2K? ÄÄÄÄÄÄ ____________________________ Looking Forward To | [Composed at 23:59:24 A Brave New World, | on 1999-09-06 (UTC) Darren | using PGPWave v1.22a Gamma] `"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ... ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: {SMACK} C:\> --- BBBS/2 v3.50 Flag-E * Origin: Mach2 Systems (1:342/3) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Darren Ryall 23-Sep-99 12:06:28 To: Holger Granholm 23-Sep-99 23:21:15 Subj: Re: Need OS/2 -=> Quoting Holger Granholm to Albert Sodyl <=- HG> OK, so you don't have money now to pay for the software you intend to HG> use. HG> HG> Do you expect to have the money to pay the fines for using pirate HG> (unpaid for) software and to buy that software when the Software HG> Piracy Police finds out. You know, you whereabout is very well known by HG> your Fido address. You've been talking too much. Made worse by the fact that in an earlier message, I'd even blatently pointed this fact out, and offered a way for him to gracefully bow out as well. I'd suggested to him that, "maybe" his friend was a licenced dealer, and that his wording may have been due to the result of poor language skills. Albert quite happily strolled past that, completely oblivious to the opening. If Albert and his friend were hauled into court at this time, it could be demonstrated quite easily that Albert had gleefully incriminated himself. HG> Your "friend" will be of no help because except fines, he'll probably HG> get jailed as well. HG> HG> Think again about what you are going to do. It completely depends on if someone notifies CAAST or the SPA or local authorities... if someone has, then all the evidence exists in the echo already... ÄÄÄÄÄÄ 115 days, 15 hours, 11 minutes, and 35 seconds until January 1, 2000. Are you ready for Y2K? ÄÄÄÄÄÄ ____________________________ Looking Forward To | [Composed at 12:48:36 A Brave New World, | on 1999-09-07 (UTC) Darren | using PGPWave v1.22a Gamma] `"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ... OS/2: The sane way to jump out of Windows. --- BBBS/2 v3.50 Flag-E * Origin: Mach2 Systems (1:342/3) 114/441 387/770 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Tobias Ernst 22-Sep-99 23:51:18 To: Frits Spieker 23-Sep-99 23:21:15 Subj: It's over. Period. Hallo Frits! FS> Don't get me wrong: I *love* OS/2 and use it every day. But now IBM FS> has finally made it official that there will never again be a new IBM has not made anything official. Brad Wardell from Stardock has posted his opinion about what he thinks *some* person at IBM has decided into the OS/2 newsgroups, drawn *his personal* conclusions from this, and afterwards told the readers to buy ObjectDesktop for Windows. Waht do we conclude from this? I don't know. What I do now is that there were also IBMers posting that the meeting Brad was talking about had not taken place because some of the importand attendees could not get there because of the Hurricane. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say Brad Wardell did not say the truth, but I want to say that IBM has made nothing official. There has not been a decision against OS/2, there has just not yet been a decision in favour of it. Just like in the last two years. And I don't think it is fair from Brad to spread this over all the news tickers so that all the newspapers will again write that "OS/2 is dead". This is what is really causing harm, not IBM's non-decision. The whole discussion can be followed in the Usenet advocacy areas, I won't repeat it here. I am also worried about what is happening, but I don't think it is already time to give up. If you do think this, well, it is upon yours. There are a lot of LINUX, MAC, Beos, and Windows Fido areas out there, just go over there and see if you will find what you are looking for. As for me, I'll continue to use OS/2 as long as it serves my needs best (and this did not change just because of a Usenet posting from Brad), and I'll hope to continue to find fellow OS/2 users in Fidonet. :-) Viele Grüße, Tobias --- Msged/BSD TE 06 (pre) * Origin: Running FreeBSD 3.2 (2:2476/418) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jan Danielsson 23-Sep-99 23:10:23 To: Sean Dennis 23-Sep-99 23:48:22 Subj: It's over. Period. JD> If I'm not wrong, you'll say that IBM never really supported OS/2. JD> IBM will kill Linux. There's no chance there will be a new OS/2 SD> That would be a really damned stupid move on IBM's part to kill an SD> open source OS. Do you understand how Linux is designed? It's not SD> a closed system like OS/2. So, IBM can't kill off Linux. (First of all, that wasn't a statement. I see now that I should have quoted that whole section). Anyway, you haven't been reading the Usenet OS/2 newgroups, have you? Many users who are upset with how IBM treat OS/2 say (with a lot of irony) that "IBM will kill Linux" (since IBM is now supporting Linux). As you pointed out, that can not happen. However, some OS/2-users who do not know how Linux works actuallt think that IBM can kill OS/2. Add that with bitterness over what IBM is doing toward OS/2, and some users actually will claim that "IBM will kill Linux". So don't worry, I wasn't serious. I was just grouping together a bunch of things I've read from the "Stardock says OS/2 is dead, so it must be"-people. SD> This isn't a flame, this is a fact. I know, and it wasn't new to me. I just wasn't clear enough. --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: Usch, det finns. (2:205/323) 280/801 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 21-Sep-99 18:30:10 To: Murray Lesser 24-Sep-99 10:24:12 Subj: OS/2 Support Murray Lesser wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS>I can't agree with you here Roy. Both the home, and >business (large and small) is totally domonated by MS >products. You would be hard pressed to locate a business that was >not running MS OS's. ML> Check on what OS your bank ATM is running under. Most ML> of them still use OS/2 (some of them OS/2 1.3!). Banks that ML> have changed to WinNT have tended to regret it. Check out what they are running every where else in the bank, other than the ATM machine. They run almost 100% MS OS's. JS>When the computer was ready to burst on the home scene is when JS>the fun, and market manipulation began. IBM was in charge, JS>and they chose MS to run the software end of the business. JS>That has not changed, and the result of course is the worlds JS>worst OS dominating the home and business market. ML> IBM did not "choose" MS. IBM offered three operating ML> systems with the original PC. There was MS DOS, based on a ML> purchased 16-bit operating system cloned from DR CP/M; DR's ML> CPM/86; and a useless OS that could only run Pascal (UCSD). ML> All were at extra cost; no software came with the original ML> PC's. Bill Gates was smart enough to price MS DOS at $50, ML> presumably since he was sure that sales would be very large. ML> The powers that be at DR wanted $200 for theirs and UCSD's ML> system was useless for anyone who wanted to do anything but ML> write their own programs in Pascal! It is not hard to ML> figure out which operating system won that battle :-). The way I understand it is IBM sold MSDOS for $50, but they sold DR's CP/M for $300. DR was pissed about it, but nothing they could do about it. IBM did "choose" MS to do there OS, they contracted with Bill Gates, and he didn't even own an OS. He bought "DOS" after IBM (who had ties with Gates family) signed the contract. ML> I have no love for Microsoft's business practices (the only MS ML> software I have on my system is BASIC PDS v 7.1, vintage ML> 1991, that will produce 16-bit "native OS/2" programs), but ML> Gates was the smartest software artist (as far as seeing ML> where PC's were going) at the time. I give him credit for ML> that, even if you don't. Gates was not all that of an "artist". He got a contract that no one else on earth could have gotten with the only game in town. No matter who got the contract, they were going to dominate the market, whether they knew it or not. JS>The problem with OS/2 is mainly that no one uses it, and IBM JS>likes it that way. Hard to promote a product when the JS>company that sells it doesn't want anyone to use it. ML> IBM gave up on trying to sell OS/2 to the AIHU years ML> ago, as OS/2 became too complex for the couch-potato ML> mentality to handle. OS/2 is no more "complex" to use than WIN, in fact, it's easier actually. ML> It is now a purely commercial system as far as IBM is ML> concerned, and IBM will continue to support it (not _market_ it ML> aggressively) as long as an appreciable number of IBM's major ML> customers continue to use it. IBM never supported OS/2. They developed it, but never attempted to get anyone to actually use it. When people used it anyway, they were miffed, and when a lot started to use it, the aggresively marketed against it. About the only marketing IBM did with OS/2 was to kill it, before it killed MS. ML> I don't do, and never have done, Windows! Personally, I ML> am very pleased that none of my relatives nor friends run ML> OS/2. I joyfully tell them that I can't help them when they ML> run into Windows trouble :-). That is a bonus for people like you and I. The down side is it's a bear to upgrade your system. I'm in the market (10 years on the same computer is not the issue), my kids need there own, and I want it to be OS/2 compatable, they MUST have WIN for school work. It's a bear trying to figure out what to buy. I want to go to best buy and just get one off the floor, like everyone else does, but, alas, who knows if it'll run OS/2 correctly. ML> I, for one, expect to continue to use OS/2 for my home ML> systems, even if it is never updated! If new applications I ML> may decide that I need are not generally available for OS/2, ML> I will write my own. It isn't any problem for me to avoid ML> using hardware that is not supported by OS/2 since I learned ML> long ago never to be the first kid on the block with the ML> latest computer gadgets or software. I may never update my ML> present hardware unless it dies :-). If I last long enough, ML> I may well be the last noncommercial OS/2 user around! ML> (Will Honea may outlast me!) I may outlast you also. You are not alone in this game, but we are few and far between. ML> To find out what IBM is doing with OS/2, you should ML> subscribe to the IBM e-mail marketing newsletter "WARP FM" ML> rather than continuing to rant about what IBM is not doing ML> for you. IBM is running a business, not a religion. Sure, but their product is perfect for the home consumer, and business consumer. A junior achievement class in 8th grade could have sold OS/2 to the masses with just 1/10 of the money IBM spent on LOTUS. I suspect their business is more monkey business than real business, and they, MS and INTEL are monkeying around with things that adversly affect the computer user at large, and thats me. I'm pissed about it, but fortunately for me, it's just a hobby. I don't really care all that much. I can get along myself just like you, in fact, it's actually more fun I reckon. ML> There is no reason for IBM not to support WinNT if that is where ML> money is to be made. There was big money to be made with OS/2, IF IBM wanted to go for it, but they didn't. Why they didn't is speculation for people like me, and when I add 2 and 2, I don't like what I see, or have seen over past 15 years. ML> But the big difference between IBM and MS (which the commercial ML> MS users will eventually learn to their discomfort) is that IBM ML> supports its legacy customers. Yeah, but at a big price. MS supports it's customers also, they just pay for the same thing over and over again, and the price is about the same either way. IBM provides the hardware and the service, MS provides the software, and INTEL provides the chips. That has made all 3 very rich, and they aim to keep it that way, and the customer loses. That's how it is when a huge cartel holds a monopoly on the market. "Screw the customer, we're making fast, easy cash" Information is controlled by ZIFF-DAVIS, and the DOJ is controlled by cash. Everyone WINS but the consumer, and he doesn't have a clue what hit him, or that he has even been hit. The perfect crime. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) 140/1 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 21-Sep-99 19:07:29 To: Darren Hamilton 24-Sep-99 10:24:12 Subj: Os2clu02 & Utc Darren Hamilton wrote in a message to Jonathan De Boyne Pollar: DH> Is the 32-bit command interpreter specific to OS/2 v4.0? No, I run it with OS/2 3.0 and no fixpaks, other than a few updated drivers from FP 17. DH> I tried the DATE /N command with OS/2 v3.0 (FP 40 and 32-bit DH> CMD.EXE file) and received an error message: DH> SYS1036: The system cannot accept the date entered. DATE /N is not supposed to have a date entered to begin with, but I suspect you are getting this error msg from the OS/2 DATE command, not with JdBP's date command. I don't get an error msg even if I use the /N and a date after it. OS2F:\BIN\TAU\OS2\BIN>date /? DATE Display or set the current date Copyright (c) 1999 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard. All Rights Reserved. Usage: DATE [/?] [/N] [/L] [/Fformat] [date] /N Do not prompt for a new date /L Display the date in the current country's local format. By default, the date will be displayed in ISO 8601 standard form. 03:13:11 pm OS2F:\BIN\TAU\OS2\BIN> Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) 140/1 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Jack Stein 22-Sep-99 08:56:18 To: Frits Spieker 24-Sep-99 10:24:12 Subj: Re: It's over. Period. following up a message from Charles Gaefke to Frits Spieker: FS> It is time to begin and have a serious look at alternative OS's to use in t FS> near future. Although OS/2 still does what it is supposed to do (and good a FS> that too!), it is falling further behind by the day. Trying to install Warp FS> a modern day system is a pain in the proverbial donkey and it is getting ha FS> and harder to find new hardware that is supported. How about an alternative OS/2 OS? Wouldn't that be neat? Sort of the OS/2 version of LINUX. Oh, and never say never! Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) 140/1 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Frits Spieker 23-Sep-99 20:41:00 To: Charles Gaefke 24-Sep-99 11:13:29 Subj: It's over. Period. CG> I know I'm going to be using OS/2 for a -long- time. Windows just CG> plain doesn't cut it. I use it for games and burning CDs. Don't get me wrong. I will be using OS/2 for quite some time to come as well, but I do not plan on being the "Amiga user" of the 2010's. (In stating "See, I still use OS/2 so it isn't dead.) ... Never lean forward to push an invisible object. Vriendelijke groet, // Frits // --- GoldEd/2|IM|FMail/2|O/T * Origin: BrainPark3, Rotterdam NL. ZOOM VFP28.8 (2:286/115) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Cyrill Vakhneyev 24-Sep-99 09:59:19 To: Torsten Balle Koefoed 24-Sep-99 12:15:29 Subj: MP3 setup Hello Torsten! 16 Sep 99 21:44, Torsten Balle Koefoed wrote to Nick Andre: TK> For MP3 encoding the best choice is BladeEncoder, which you'll find at TK> http://bladeenc.home.ml.org/. TK> There's also the old port of the Fraunhofer L3enc, but the sound TK> quality does not match with BladeEncoder. I don't know if it's faster, TK> though. BTW really thing is LAME for OS/2. Bye! Cyrill [Team OS/2 CV004] ... Windows? Homey don't play that! --- * Origin: I feel like Popeye! (2:5053/7.1) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +============================================================================+