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What follows is the edited transcript from the special *FlagShip* COnference held on 3/4/87 in the RTC area. Our guest for the evening was Mr. Fred Bowen, engineer from Commodore, who spent over two hours online with us answering questions from members. Thanks to all who attended, and a warm welcome to Fred! Stenographer: Jennifer Marlowe Attendees: <[Fred] DEBS-GUEST> <MICHAEL.M> <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> <[KeS] KEVIN.S> <DEB> <TIGLON.G> <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> <[John] J.KRESS> <[Ray] R.HEUER> <[Bill] BNICHOLSON> <[Peter] PJACOBSON> <[Dave C.] DCHAMP> <[Greg] PFOUNTZ> <LGBRYAN> <CHUCK.WAGON> <W.BUSH> <D.S.REDFORD> <CHARRINGTON> <[Cy] C.WELCH> <S.PLATYPUS> <JIM.MAC> <PINKPANDA> <[Jeff] J.ADAMS> <GARYW> <J.E.RYUS> <RICHARDL> <G.NOVOTNEY> Minutes: <MICHAEL.M> If anyone wants a list of RTC commands, type: /HELP or HELP <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> A GEnie first: A Commodore engineer on time!!!! Mike...how's everything at the controls on the west coast? <MICHAEL.M> Comfy, here, Loren. I is ready. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Okay midwest control is GO <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred..you awake? <[fred]> Just dumped my buffer. I'm awake. <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> [wierdness prevails as usual!] <[Ray] R.HEUER> ::putting on tie:: <MICHAEL.M> I've got 7:00 (pacific) here. Care to introduce the guest,Loren? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> :40 sec to formal <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Beginning introduction sequence <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Here goes <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Good evening ladies and gentleman and welcome to tonight's real time conference with our special guest, Mr. Fred Bowen of Commodore. Fred is software/firmware <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> engineer at Commodore and was part of the C-128's orginal design team. Fred has been instrumental in the continuing development of the C-128 product line <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> and is here to answer your questions on various aspects of the C-128. This is a formal conference, so please wait to be called upon before you speak. If <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> you would like to ask a question, type /raise and wait to be acknowledged, if you would like to comment on something type ! and wait to be acknowledged. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, care to add anything to that? <[fred]> Sounds fine to me. Shoot. <[John] J.KRESS> What is the current status of the Louis Wallace Basic 8.0 wedge?...Is there any firm date as to an agreement between Mr. Wallace and Commodore for release of this program? <[fred]> Unfortunately, CBM will not be marketing BASIC-8. The good news however is that he has found someone to sell it, (it won't be called BASIC-8), and that should be soon now. <[Bill] BNICHOLSON> Will it be Disk Based, or ROM ? I would prefer Disk based, but there have been rumors about a chip. <[fred]> It will be disk based (UN-protected) and sell for around $39.95, and be available by mail and direct sales. <[KeS] KEVIN.S> Just an exposition, BASIC 8.0 WILL support 64k video RAM, yes? <[fred]> Yup. Looks great, too. It supports the 1351 proportional mouse, RAM expansion too. <[John] J.KRESS> With the C128-D and the new cost reduced boards for the C-128 both having the 64K VDC ram configuration, has there been any consideration towards correcting the interlace 640*400 problem? <[fred]> I would like to see it myself, but I doubt anything will be done. <[Ray] R.HEUER> Forgive me if I ask a common question... <[Ray] R.HEUER> I'm fairly new to the 128, and there is something that bothers me... When in 64 mode, is there ANY way to access that extra 64K of memory, or is it just gonna sit there and smirk at me? <[fred]> No. You CAN select which bank you use in 64 mode, but that is worthless. You should be using 128 mode. <[Ray] R.HEUER> I paid good money for this C-64 terminal program Fred. Does Commodore have any plans to correct this "problem"? <[fred]> What problem are you having? What terminal program is it? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Ray, 64 mode is not designed for 128k <[Ray] R.HEUER> The "Problem" I refer to is 64k of dead memory. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Ray, unfortunately the answer to your problem lies in buying or d-loading a C-128 mode term program. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> anything to add Fred? <[fred]> Sorry. Part of the price of being 64 compatible. Part of the original idea. <LGBRYAN> OK I HAVE AN EARLY C-128 AND WANT TO KNOW IF THE UPGRADE ROMS ARE AVAILABLE NOW AND IF SO HOW CAN I GET THEM. <[fred]> The C128 upgrade ROMs were sent to the mask shop way back in November. I do not know why, but even I have yet to see samples yet. They are coming. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred how about the 1571 ROMS? <[fred]> The 1571 upgrade ROMs were delivered to the mask shop 2 weeks ago. I suspect we'll all see them in a few more weeks. A last minute hitch with partial MFM formatting held them up. I know you all can't live without partial MFM formatting. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Will the 1571 & C-128 upgrade roms be a set? Or just sold separately? We have heard two different stories <[fred]> The CBM price will be $15 + $3 shipping for the 1571 upgrade, and $41.50 for the 128 set (plus $3 shipping). <LGBRYAN> WILL THEY BE SOLD THROUGH CBM OR DISTRIBUTORS???? <[fred]> Both. You can call or mail CBM for them, or get them through dealers and servic centers. <CHUCK.WAGON> Will they be user installable? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, these are all socketed right? <[fred]> With the usual warranty disclaimer, sure, you could install them yourself. They are all socketed. <LGBRYAN> WILL THERE BE ANY ADS OR HOW WILL WE KNOW WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE??? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> (Twin Cities 128 will proclaim it to the world) <[fred]> I will let everyone know via BBS's like this and places like the UNIX network, where I live daily. <[Dave C.] DCHAMP> Will the new chips keep compatability with programs now out 100%? <W.BUSH> yes..what wiill the roms do???? or fix??? <[fred]> There are no NEW feature really (unless you call things like negative coordinates new) Lots of fixes tho-the bug list is fairly well distributed and has appeared in several mags. They were carefully patched to be as compatible as possible and still fix things. <[Peter] PJACOBSON> Fred, will current C-128 users get the 'new roms' before they are installed in the C128D? Or will we have to wait that much longer? <[fred]> The 128d has 32K byte ROMs. Because we had to cut new ROMs for it, it will have the new stuff when it's introduced. I have those parts already. Both 128 and 128D ROMs left my hands in November. Must be an act of God. <[Dave C.] DCHAMP> Is there anything new coming out for the RAM expansion? <[Dave C.] DCHAMP> Also.... Thanks for a great Computer Fred!!! <LGBRYAN> I WAS WONDERING ABOUT A RAM DISK PRG FOR THE RAM EXPANSION.... <[fred]> I will be releasing a new disk for to be packed with new 1700 & 1750 expansions. It has a RAM disk on it. VERY nice. VERY fast. Fairly compatible. <W.BUSH> Where, When, and how much..ramdisk? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> (Fred will current owners be able to get it in the public domain?) <[fred]> There is some problem getting power supplies for the 1764- we got lots of expanders, but no supplies yet! The 1700 and 1750 have been shipping, or so I thought. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, I think they are referring to the R-disk software <[fred]> The Ram disks cost: 199.95 for 1750 and 1764, and 119.95 for 1700. <LGBRYAN> WHAT I WAS REFERING TO WAS WHAT ABOUT THOSE OF US THAT ALREADY BOUGHT THE 1750 .... <[Dave C.] DCHAMP> RIGHT!!! <W.BUSH> !yes <[fred]> The RAM disk software will probably be viewed as public. Much as any program on the test/demo disks. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred what is the timetable..can you release it now? <[fred]> As soon as I finish the 1581 ROMs, I can bang out the misc. disk software. <LGBRYAN> SPEAKING OF THE 1581 IS THERE ANY NEW WORD ON ITS AVAILABILTY??? <[fred]> The 1581 is behind schedule, but that's not unusual. Should be sending ROMs to the shop next week, for production and delivery the last quarter (fiscal year). <[Peter] PJACOBSON> What is the status on the Assembler you were working on for the C-128? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> (I guess Neil Harris of Atari got bored with us..snicker) <[fred]> I knew Niel once. <[fred]> The so-called DEVPAK is at the bottom of the heap just now. It pains me. I have yet to talk marketing into selling it. *sigh* <[John] J.KRESS> Could a certain magazine get a preview copy, toy around and then... convince marketing for you!!!! <JIM.MAC> I was wondering if CBM ever considered mailing out questionaires asking users what kind of products they want... seems we are the market! <[fred]> We had the same question many moons ago. No interest... <[fred]> Then again, many users' ideas just aren't that marketable or profitable, quite fankly. <CHUCK.WAGON> Thank you. For W.BUSH:there is a rather extensive article on the roms in the january issue of the starboard journal if you want to know about the problems. ???? when can we expect the ram disk program to be available, Fred? <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> What is the current [expected] timeframe on availability of the New ROms?? <[fred]> I should have put the ROMs info on a function key... ROMs will be out Real, real soon now. <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> What can current 1750 owners do to get the new RamDisk software?? <[fred]> I have to talk to people to see how users can get disk updates. I suggest you wait for it to ship, then copy a friend's disk! <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred can we upload here, when released? <[fred]> I will approach marketing and product support about uploading such things. I peronally would like to see it happen. <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> 3) are there any updates to CP/M contemplated? (1581 Support??)?? <[fred]> The only update planned for CP/M past the 08DEC version is for 1581 support. <JOHN.K> Re ramdisk, I have seen a Commodore press release which says... that the software will be packaged with tthe 1764. <[fred]> CP/M that supports the 1700 and 1750 is on the flip side of these disks. It is not on the 1764 disk. 1764 is for 64's only. <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> Will the 1581 support be available at 1581 General Availability?? (CP/M) <[fred]> I don't understand Larry's question... <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> There was talk of NO CP/M support for the 1581... has that changed?? and will that support be available when the 1581 ships?? <[fred]> CP/M support for the 1581 changes daily. It is ON just now. I have 3.5" CP/M and it works, but DRI wants royalties on it... we simply view it as an update. We see the c128 as the world's biggest dongle in this matter! <[Peter] PJACOBSON> :)! <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> snicker <[Larry] LEROSENMAN> hehehehehe <S.PLATYPUS> ok what are cbm's plans for the empty slot on the board?? <S.PLATYPUS> ( of the 128 pc board that is) <[fred]> I assume you mean in the 128 (the RAM expanders have slots too). No plans. <S.PLATYPUS> do you foresee ( in your crystal ball) continued support for the 8 bit machines?? <[fred]> There are a few of us still trying to support 8-bitters. I enjoy it, and will do so until I stop getting paid for it. Amiga looms big in the future, but... <D.S.REDFORD> please pardon interupt, my name is dave and i jumped at the wrong goahead repeat of question how will the amiga 500 affect the CBM support of the 128 <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred any comment (What is a Amiga 500..snicker..I have not seen a Press release <[fred]> Just how the Amigas affect 64 and 128 support (aka sales) remains to be seen. The 8-bitters still are our mainstay, and there is no plans to abandon them! <[fred]> My english sucks this time of night- pardon it please! <[jeff] J.ADAMS> What is the support schedule for the C128? seems like the 64C is getting more of a push from dealers. How long will the C128 continue to be produced? (and will the 64C be discontinued first?) <[fred]> There is as much margin in the 64 as the 128, if not more. Hence, more support. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Gang, let me assure you there is much life in the C-128! <[fred]> Business logic is simple, you ee? <[fred]> Yes, much life in 'er. Hence the new 128D is finally making an appearance in the USA. And the expanders. And the 1581. <D.S.REDFORD> 2nd question (I get three don't I) what about a 128d with slots INSIDE for all the addon stuff (ie... printer interfaces, ram expansion) <[fred]> The 128 is not an apple. It supports up to 640K, and probably never any more. It will not have slots. <D.S.REDFORD> thanks 3rd question ... in the apple world (yuch) they can bank switch to use up to a meg of rams what about some support for the 640 in expansion mode <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred want to try to answer that 1 meg RAM expansion question? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, if a third party vendor came up with their own REC would it be theoretically possible to bank switch more? <[fred]> Theoretically, sure. But the power, timing, and such icky things work aginst it. Plus it would have limited support I would think. I'd rather see hard disks than more RAM. <D.S.REDFORD> Thanks very much for the 128 Fred, great machine....bye <[linus] PINKPANDA> A question: are there any mandelbrot programs for the 128 or 64? <[fred]> I've seen several mandelbrot programs for the C64. None specifically for the 128. <[Greg] PFOUNTZ> About the 1764, is it 256K or 512K... and the ram disk emulator, I ... understand we need to 256 bytes in C64 for the wedge, where is that and can it be relocated to be compatable with existing software??? <[fred]> The 1764 is 256K. the 1700 is 128K. the 1750 is 512K <[fred]> The wedge for the RAM disk program is 1 page, and can be easily relocated by the user using the installation utility provided. <[Greg] PFOUNTZ> great!! will the wedge support all of a 1750?? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred is that the same scenario as the one for the 1750/1700 in 128 mode? <[fred]> All of the RAM is used for disk storage, except a coupla K for the main body of the RAM disk controller, which is swapped in when needed. <[Greg] PFOUNTZ> thanks... looking forward to getting my hands on one <[cy] C.WELCH> Thanks, I run a BBS and am interested in how easy it will be to relocate the ram disk driver for the 1764? <[fred]> Is there a specific problem, or are you anticipating one? <[cy] C.WELCH> I want to use it with my software but may need to relocate it. as I have very little free space to work with. <[fred]> The interface page is relocatable. Where the controller lives on the expander is not. The controller is swapped in & out when necessary, restoring everything. <[KeS] KEVIN.S> What is the physical layout of the 1764, as far as chips are concerned? <[fred]> The stuff of which I speak applies to all the RAM expanders. I only wish we had devised a way to partition them, so part could be a disk and part for buffers. <[KeS] KEVIN.S> Will it be expandable ala 1700 --> 1750? <[fred]> The 1700 could be repopulated, I think, and become a 1750. Not real sure, but petty sure. <[KeS] KEVIN.S> Yes, it can, mine has been! <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Can the 1764 be re-populated? <[fred]> Sure. <[fred]> The only diff between the expanders is RAM amount and in the case of the 1764, a resistor. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred you feeling fine? <[fred]> Where's my beer? <RICHARDL> If the 1581 has cp/m will the partition be movable and is the last quarter of the fiscal year Apr-June? <[fred]> Yes, the 1581 supports partitions. CP/M can live in one and Kongo Bongo in another. <[fred]> End of Commodore fiscal year is June 30. <RICHARDL> Is the partiion movable after formatting? <[fred]> Partitions can be changed anytime I believe. CP/M has particular preferences though. I don't believe it's movable itself. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Paging through the developers docs...it suggests the partitions can be moved <W.BUSH> Fred 1) Please advise cbm on user requests for 17xx support,2)You mentioned Hard disks..ones I've seen are 2 expensive--is cbm going to do what it used to be famous for--and come out with one at a reasonable price ..10meg under 500? what about vendor support for cbm cpm..heard wordstar 4000 will be offered in cpm version? <[fred]> We are supporting best we can 3rd party hard disk people. ITC and Xetec have visited Westchester. I'm looking forward to getting my Xetec drives any day now. <[fred]> The ITC (Lt Kernal) drives are pretty reasonable cost-wise. And can be made to look like lots of 1571's instead of one big thing. I know of no specific 3rd party CP/M developments. CBM is counting on developers to continue to support this mode. <[KeS] KEVIN.S> Fred, how is the 1764 populated? 4 21256 chips, or what? Is the main board the same as the 1700/50 units? <[fred]> The boards are the same except for that resistor. 8-256K chips. <[cy] C.WELCH> Then Why two families of expansion boards and why is that little resistor there? <[fred]> There is a slight diff between 64 and 128 h/w interface. Hence resistor. <[cy] C.WELCH> Ok, Also is there a chance of CBM coming out with a hardware uart interface for the 64/128 ? I would love to be able to run 2400 baud! you know , a plug in cartridge. <[fred]> That is another goodie I have that no one else has. We could raise no interest from marketing. Still trying though, as time permits. We use it to up/down load to VAX at 9600. <[Greg] PFOUNTZ> with a lot of fine tuning, I was able to get 2400 in Color 64 BBS. But a hardware uart would be nice <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Arrrrggghhhh 9600? <[fred]> And that was sending MOS object code, doing conversion at the same time, csums and all! <[fred]> We have lottsa boards- perhaps I can talk 'em into selling a kit?!? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Scary..my C-128 at 9600 baud! <GARYW> If CBM will not go for the Uart, would you consider releasing it as a hardware project for the rest of us? It would really be nice to use my new 9600 baud modem on my C128. I like my BBS running at 9600 even If I do only have one user that can call at that speed. <[fred]> And that was with real drivers, not this soft thing I'm using right now... <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> First, concerning the warning against using hardware interrupts while programming the 8563, is there some way around it, so that an interupt driven clock could fuction with say ESC codes and other screen editor routines? <[fred]> LOTS of people ask this. In native mode, no. Under control of a program or a user shell, sure- that's how BASIC-8 and Digital Solns can move pointers and such. <[fred]> Perhaps using ESC code, you could do limited stuff, but not real time IRQ stuff. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Second question, given the availablilty of such books as Mapping the 128 and C-128 internals, why do you and the other engineers discourage users from doing direct calls to BASIC ROM routines? <[fred]> Cause things move when they are updated, and create non-portable code. But discourage is the right word- we like to think it's for all our welfare. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, really do you think the R-disk software can be released to the P.D. soon? <[fred]> I will see about uploading RAM disk s/w. Let you know. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, do you have any suggestions for future conferences? <[fred] DEBS -GUEST> Only comment I have is... sure wish I had that program you sent! <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> I thought this one went well, a little slow, but that is the nature of the thing. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, how far away from retail is C-128D? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> That is if you know? <[fred]> The 128D is *supposed* to start shipping end of this month. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, it seems you folks have love/hate or hate/hate relationship with marketing. any ideas why you can't get more products pushed through on the 128 side <GARYW> The products are big and the hole is little. <[fred]> I have so many coulda-beens in my office... C256 w/ UART, no ROMs wbut rite/ctlh/sore RAM, graphica {8563, etc. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, Deb wants to know what you are working on now? <[fred]> 1581 or it's my butt... <MICHAEL.M> Fred - Thanx a whole bunch for joining us! Y'all play nice, now! <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Fred, what do you know (or can say..) about these funny Amiga type rumors <[fred]> What rumors? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Well the Amiga 2000 is fact...but the 500? if that is what it is called? <[fred]> Go to Hanover- it's all being explained there... <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> (by the way, the universe is run on an 8 bit micro!) <DEB> WHEN is the Hanover Faire?! <DEB> <<right, go to Germany>> sheeeesh <[KeS] KEVIN.S> I saw a pre-write up on the 500 today... rumor, rumor. <DEB> OOOO, are there no press releases being made here in the states?! <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Say, only in europe, please fred!!! <[KeS] KEVIN.S> 520ST-ish single unit with internal drive sound interesting, Fred? :grin: <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> God uses an eight bit micro..honest <[fred]> You don't wanna see a 500 here? <[KeS] KEVIN.S> (For WHAT, Loren?) hehe <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> No I don't I think cost reducing the 1000 makes more sense <DEB> Yes....I want to see a 500 here...or at LEAST a 1000 with lower prices. <DEB> <---- but I'm an Amiga convert of the first order. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> I LOVE my C-128s, but I have a bias! <[fred]> MY crystal ball is full of AmigaBASIC, or so I'm told. <DEB> AmigaBASIC...?! *BASIC*?! <[fred]> I gotta hit the head. See you later? <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> See me? You comming over? <DEB> Thanks for being our Guest, Fred! we will edit ya into splendiferous living ASCII by tommorrow night for folks who could not be here! Hehe. <[fred]> lordy. <[KeS] KEVIN.S> Hehe. <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Seriously, Thanks a ton <[fred]> TALK to you later. bye <[C-128 Host] SPARROW.J> Okay, take it easy Fred and thanks again! <[KeS] KEVIN.S> Night, Fred! <[KeS] KEVIN.S> And so ends another slow Tues. evening.