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<C> 1994 by GEnie ========================================================================== This file is brought to you by The Commodore 64/128 RoundTable on GEnie This file may be published or excerpted in User Group newsletters providing credit is given in this manner: "Copyright 1994 by GEnie From the Commodore 64/128 RoundTable File#:#####" This file maybe be distributed, if distributed whole and unaltered, on <RETURN>, <S>croll, <Q>uit ? non-profit BBSs or non-profit networks. For more information on GEnie call by modem: 1-800-638-8369 (8-N-1 300/1200/2400) Enter: HHH Then reply: xtx99018,commrt Then enter: Commodore And enjoy! ========================================================================== On Sunday, October 9th 1994, the Commodore Round Table held its first Internet Conference! The Featured guest was the Internet RT's own, SKUNKY! He passed Along quite a bit of valuable information. There will also be a followup Conference when GEnie anounces its full access. Enjoy reading this transcript. Specail thanks to Skunky for making this conference possible. And thanks to Geos-Tim for room control and back-up buffering. -= The.Outlaw =- ========================================================================= <GEOS-TIM> Tonight's guest is Skunky, from the Interent RT The Room is going into Listen Only mode. Type /rai if you would like to ask a question. We will call on people in the order in which we receive their question request. <SKUNKY> Hiya everybody! <GEOS-TIM> Tonight's host is THE.OUTLAW... <THE.OUTLAW> Welcome to the Commodore RT Skunky! :> I see you brought along John :> <JOHN.FULMER> I am just here to lend moral support to Skunky! <THE.OUTLAW> Glad to have you! :> Well to get the main question out of the way.. What Internet services are available to us on GEnie and how do we access/use them? <SKUNKY> Ok, right now, the only thing directly accessable is e-mail.. With that, you can send mail to any user on the Internet, or any other connected service, like GEnie, AOL, or CompuServe. You can also retreive files, using FTPMAIL and you can gopher, with gophermail. Sometimes you can WWW by mail, but it's not very stable right now for some reason or another. <THE.OUTLAW> How do you go about using FTPMAIL or GOPHERMAIL? Are there tools of some kind for this? <SKUNKY> Indirectly, the Internet RT staff will do file searches (through archie) and will retrieve files that users request... We also upload about 80 newsgroup digests to the internet RT library every week. There is a script in the aladdin RT lib for doing ftp mail.. there is a cat/top in the Internet RT bb on page 1405 that covers both ftpmail and gophermail. <THE.OUTLAW> That will be helpfull :> <SKUNKY> There is also a tutorial/beginners guide in the Internet RT library, named ACCMAIL.TXT or ACCMAIL2.TXT that covers how to do all of this stuff by mail... yeah, I know, the script doesn't do you a bit of good. (: <THE.OUTLAW> hehehe no it doesn't <g> well in keeping with the email aspect... <SKUNKY> Well, accually, if you can figure out the scripting language, it will show you the format you have to use to get the ftpmail server to talk to you. Yes? <THE.OUTLAW> How does one go about subscribing to Usenet news groups? <SKUNKY> BTW, cat 2 is the internet RT BB is the "beginner" topic. <THE.OUTLAW> Great Thanks :> <SKUNKY> you can't "subscribe" to newsgroups... you can subscribe to listservers and mailing lists. Some of which duplicate what is found in newsgroups, but not always.... and like I said, we currently upload about 80 newsgroups each week to the internet RT library.... <THE.OUTLAW> So there really isn't away to get messages from usenet without getting there directly? or visiting your RT? <SKUNKY> Not from genie. Right. <THE.OUTLAW> Ok :> <SKUNKY> You CAN send messages to newsgroups, through a gateway provided by the university of texas. <THE.OUTLAW> Really? How do you go about this? <SKUNKY> Yes, pick a newsgroup. <THE.OUTLAW> comp.sys.cbm <SKUNKY> ok, to send a message to comp.sys.cbm, you would send a message to comp-sys-cbm@cs.utexas.edu <THE.OUTLAW>Onto the next question... recieving files by mail.. what's involved? <SKUNKY> You send a message to the ftp server, with commands in it..... it mails the file back to you in parts...... if it's text, you can read it, if not, it's uuencoded, in which case you would have to stick all the parts together, and uudecode it. <THE.OUTLAW> ok, I know we have the UUencode/decode tool in our Library here for the 64 <SKUNKY> good........ <THE.OUTLAW> Commodores don't use ASCII like IBM's do.. Can I assume that we have to convert the uuencoded files to true ascii? <SKUNKY> I remember... it would make sense for the uudecode program to take care of it by itself. Also keep this in mind.. the "files" are in mail, you have to screen capture them. ie, open up a log file and "read" the mail........ <THE.OUTLAW> Commodore capture buffers are small in comparison to IBM's etc. We'd have to go directly from buffer to disk as the buffer fills. <SKUNKY> probably. <THE.OUTLAW> I did try one file once with no success.. I wasn't sure what the problem was.. I got one file then the program stopped <SKUNKY> Of course, we can ftp the file for you and stick it in the Internet RT library. <THE.OUTLAW> That's good to know. :> <SKUNKY> yep, options 10 and 11 on page 1405 are your friends. (: <THE.OUTLAW> Well let me get the big question out of the way so we can move into the Internet itself... ok.. Full Access on GEnie. any ideas when ? <SKUNKY> Sometime in the near future. <THE.OUTLAW> Well that was easy :> <SKUNKY> Yep. (: <THE.OUTLAW> How about getting direct access? Is there a list of providers and what's the average cost involved? I know it varies greatly. <SKUNKY> There is a list, it's fairly old tho. Costs can range anywhere from free, to around $20 a month, to several hundred a month for a single person getting access. A company wanting access for themselves can cost $10,000 to start, and several thousand a month upkeep. <THE.OUTLAW> WoW! <SKUNKY> yeah. <THE.OUTLAW> About the list, does the Internet RT have it and how do we find it. Old that it may be, it's a start :> <SKUNKY> ok, the "old" list is pdial......... the new list that John just uploaded that I haven't looked at is NIC-944.ZIP <THE.OUTLAW> Will it only be in ZIP form? unfortunatly the UNzip program to handle the 2.04g IBM zip hasn't been written for us yet. We can handle the 1.xx zip <SKUNKY> not sure... ah, John says he'll upload the .txt file here if ya'll want it in your lib. (: <THE.OUTLAW> Yes please John! That would be great! Thanks! Well I think we covered all we can do via GEnie... Lets move into direct access <SKUNKY> okie...... <THE.OUTLAW> What's the best way to navigate the Net? or perhaps easiest :> <SKUNKY> hrm... best isnt always easiest.. I personally prefer to use just a plain old basic shell... all text. <THE.OUTLAW> Howie has a question.. Go ahead Howie :> <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> Where can I get *FREE* direct access in NYC? :) My public azccess PANIX gets $29 a month <sigh> <SKUNKY> To my knowledge, I don't think you can. Possibly as a student in a university. <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> oh :( <SKUNKY> are you in NYC proper, or is NYC a long distance call for you? (there are cheaper service providers) <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> I live in Manhattan, do you know what others charge? <SKUNKY> I use Netcom, and they charge $19.50 a month... you get a $2 discount if you pay by credit card. <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> Will I be able to accress netcom with a local call? I thought it was in CA <SKUNKY> netcom has local access numbers in about 30 cities right now.. <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> I'll give them a call then. Thanks! <SKUNKY> If you'll hold on a sec, I can find a local number for them... what's your area code? <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> I'm in 212 area <SKUNKY> ok... 212 : Blythe, Creative Data, CRL, Escape, Dorsai, Interport, Maestro, MindVox, Mordor, Netcom, New York Net, Panix <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> PANIX is where I am now <SKUNKY> those are all the service providers in the 212 area code... netcom and CRL charge the same rates.. I don't know anything about the other ones. <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> what I like is that they have many access lines and never a busy signal. Thanks, I'll give them a call. I grabbed this screen <SKUNKY> ok, the new york POP for netcom is............ 212 803 6721 data line call that with your modem, and log in a guest...... hit return for the password, and call with 80 columns, cuz it runs a menu program. <[Howie] H.HERMAN1> ditto the THANKS <THE.OUTLAW> Greg has a question.. <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> couple actually,one a decent tutorial for the ksh shell,or an interface for the 64/128 to it,can be cpm,but the text shells for me are very non-intuitive <SKUNKY> ok.. for unix specific stuff.. check out the UNIX RT on page 160. they have several tutorials to get you started.. I dont know what you mean by the rest of your question.... <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> well as I just said to somebody else,I have the aversion to paying to be lost and confused <SKUNKY> Greg, several providers have flat fees.. <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> so something along the lines of mosiac would be awesome for the 128,or even a menu driven gopher/veronica untility for the 128 <SKUNKY> if you DON'T have to luxury, then get the Big Dummy's guide to the Internet, and READ IT ALL before you log on. Ok, first, mosiac REQUIRES higher resolution graphics than you're gonna get on a commie... and you don't need a gopher program for your commodore.. it runs on the system that you log onto. All you need is a terminal program that can do vt100 emulation. <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> I know that,but that was an example of something that I would intutive exactually its better than that,but somewhere between that and just one of the shells would nice <SKUNKY> Most of the stuff you can do with the internet are started from a shell, but are programs that run on the host that you call, gopher is one such program.. for instance, we are running a program on GEnie's computers to allow us to chat.. portal.com offer both shell and menu driven accounts. netcom also has a menu system.. which sits on top of the shell, and lets you use your arrow keys to do things... make sense? <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> okay <THE.OUTLAW> Doc, has a question.. Go ahead Doc <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I have a couple of questions as to capability and terminology. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> First off, what is a KSH shell? And what is its purpose? <SKUNKY> Ok, KSH is a Korn shell....it is a command interpreter. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Second off what resolution and capability is required to run the Mosaic software? <SKUNKY> Mosaic runs on a macintosh, or a dos/windows based pc with vga or better graphics, tho it doesnt look right until you get svga graphics.. it's also slow on older computers, as it's quite graphics insensive. Does that answer your question? <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> No, not exactly, getting back to the KSH command interpreter. Is this interpreter similar to the prompts you receive from a UNIX system such as during a remote login? <SKUNKY> yes and no.. on a unix based system, there are two basic types of shell, and variants of each shell. KSH is a shell. it gives you a prompt, much like you get from a dos based pc.. so, the prompts you get during a telnet or rlogin session to a unix host are supplied by whatever shell you happen to be running there. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Where would a KSH shell be encountered, and how is it used? <SKUNKY> ok, when you connect to a unix based host. you will get a shell, or a menu or something.. if you get a shell, it MIGHT be ksh. it might be just plain sh, or csh, or BASH. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I see, its one of a variety of interface programs available for UNIX machines. <SKUNKY> right.. all having different things they can do. The csh can be programed in C, ksh can be programmed, but not in C. The "shell" on a commodore, BTW, is BASIC. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Nifty, getting back to Mosaic. Its my understanding that this program is a graphical interface for the internet. Similar in purpose to the gopher and veronica systems. What capabilities does this software have? I wouldn't call BASIC a shell, since the enhancements that can be added are typically refered to as this on the Commodore. <SKUNKY> mosaic is a program used to view WWW pages. WWW is World Wide Web.. BASIC is your shell. like it or not. tho there are things you can add on top of it... sh is the "basic" shell on a UNIX system, and you can run ksh, BASH, csh, zsh, tcsh instead of it. mosaic can take a WWW page, and display it for you, with imbeded graphics, and possibly sound, I'm not sure about that tho.. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Its not really important, I was just warning you that there is actually a classification of program on the Commodore called a shell, and its not exactly the same as what you're saying. <SKUNKY> Yes, I know, in unix, the shell is what passes commands along to the computer. On a commie, BASIC does that, unless you turn it off, like GEOS does, then GEOS is your shell. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Right, I understand. On Commodore shell's are typically programs that give you disk access of some sort. Commodore BASIC does not include disk commands by itself in its V2.0. On the 128, you do have some limiited disk commands, but not much. So, there is a group of programs called shells which give you the added capability. <SKUNKY> Doc, I remember, I will forever know lO"$",8 tho it doesn't quite seem right for the " to not be shift 2. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> There are a group of 6 disk commands on the 64, and about 15 or so on the 128, but they aren't anything like whats available for most computers. <SKUNKY> most of the "disk commands" on unix and dos based machines are really programs that run.. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> So you usually add more. Even on the original demo disk that came with the 1541 there is a DOS SHELL, which allows you to easily send commands to the drive. <THE.OUTLAW> Doc, you can run other 'shells', provided the host system has them. <SKUNKY> yeah, I know, I never used it, took too much time to load it. Most UNIX shells provide the same kind of functionality.. there are some, like BASH and tcsh, which are more advanced than others. But as long as you can get a shell prompt, you can decide what shell you want to run. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Well, we degress. It just a difference in terminology. Which was my original reason for asking. For clarification on the subject. <SKUNKY> if your host has 6 different shells, you can run any of them.. I personally have 3 shells on my system, so the people who use my unix system can use any of the 3 shells on here. oooooo, I just thought of something. amigaspeak kinda sorta here.. there is no such thing as a command line interface in UNIX, you ALWAYS have a shell. where with, for example, you could call a c:\> prompt a command line interface. The shell is what you always go back to, if you start gopher, when you quit, you get your shell back....... if you run IRC, when you quit, you get your shell back.. on GEnie, when you run the RTC program, when you quit, you get your "shell" back, the shell being the GEnie menuing system.. <THE.OUTLAW> How do you find out what shells are available to you? <SKUNKY> On most systems, you can type chsh, meaning change shell, and it will list what shells it will let you change your default shell to. others systems you have to go looking. and on some systems, you get what they want you to have, and that's it, and you don't get to change it. <THE.OUTLAW> so it all depends on the software the host is running ie, Solaris is mine <SKUNKY> right.. with solaris, you have to go looking.. chsh prompts for a shell to change to. <THE.OUTLAW> Something I'll have to look into myself :> <SKUNKY> look in the /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin dir's for shells. ok, am I making sense yet? <CMD-DOUG> Just a comment: If you want to get a feel for a Unix-like shell on the Commodore, download ACE from our libs. It has things like UUENCODE and UUDECODE built-in, and the DIR command presents file info in much the same way you'll see on Internet. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Well, back to my second question. I supposed the WWW is the fastest and best way mode to operate in, so as Commodore users our capability is severly diminished. <THE.OUTLAW> Thanks Doug :> <SKUNKY> Personally, I do not use the web at all. I never really like the feel of it. Many people like gopher better.. lots of mac users and windows users like mosaic, point and click and watch the pretty picture show up on the screen. <THE.OUTLAW> I find Gopher works well and Veronica works within Gopher :> <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Gopher is pretty much a text based interface, right? <SKUNKY> yes.. gopher is all text. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> WIth the Mosaic system you get into the fancy graphics and sounds like they like to show on CBS news (which is typically all they show as if to represent the entire on- line world as one vast interactive television show or something, but I degress...) <SKUNKY> right.. and there are just some things you CANT do with the web.. mail for example or reading newsgroups or irc. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> The limiting factors of Mosaic or modem speed, graphics ability, and sound generation capability. But, it is not everything yet? <SKUNKY> it probably never will be "everything" it is just a tool. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> It seems like everything is going over to graphical systems. Its a conspiracy to get us to buy more expensive machines. <SKUNKY> graphical is easier for beginners to learn.. I personally don't like Them <THE.OUTLAW> lynx is a WWW program on my system and text based <SKUNKY> and I could do without mosaic. it's more trouble to me than it's worth... right....... lynx can read all of the text off of a WWW page, and will let you flow the links on the page to other places.. just like mosaic, but faster, and cleaner looking. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Very interesting. Could a version of lynx be done on the Commodore? <THE.OUTLAW> lynx is run by the host system.. I still have to sift thru the help screens to understand how to use it myself <SKUNKY> Ok, let me get this out.. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> As opposed to the Mosaic program which is ran by the user's system? <SKUNKY> if you use a shell, you ONLY need a TERMINAL PROGRAM that can do vt100 or ansi, preferably in 80 columns, but not required. right....... mosaic runs on the users computer....... <THE.OUTLAW> Commodore can do just about everything on the Internet. The Host system will have text based programs for navigating and reading material you find. We can't run any graphic type programs. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Because no one programs for us. <THE.OUTLAW> thats correct. I've only seen graphics for IBM and MAC <SKUNKY> I don't run anything graphic, and I'm on a UNIX based system at home. Have you ever viewed a gif on your computer Doc? <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Yes, I have. <SKUNKY> How long did it take to get the whole picture on the screen? <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I typically use GEOGIF to conert GIF pictures into B&W GEOS files for viewing. The lower resolution 320x200's I can use the Giffy program for the 64. The GDS program for the 128 handles higher resolutions, but doesn't handle the color as well as the 64 program. <SKUNKY> Ok, but how long does it take? I remember it taking several minutes for a SMALL pic. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Depends on the size and the type of graphic. Anywhere from 15sec to several minutes. <CMD-DOUG> Depends a lot on the storage system being used. On a RAM based system, they can be up pretty quickly. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> GEOGIF is very quick, and typically does things in less than a minute. The 128 program is also pretty fast. I prefer to view graphics from a RAMLink. Its better than disk drives. Or I use my hard drive. <SKUNKY> ok, you just hit the first problem with doing a mosaic program for commodore, it's all a matter of speed. It's possible to write a mosaic program that would run under GEOS, provided you had the system resources. lots of ram, and a fast modem... <CMD-DOUG> GEOS probably couldn't keep up... it's too interrupt-laden... <SKUNKY> Actually, if you used a cello type program, it would be possible.... not nice, but possible. Nothing else would keep up either. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I think it would probably have to be a custom program. <THE.OUTLAW> Basically your asking too much from a commodore to run a graphics interface for the internet, I think <CMD-DOUG> What kind of resolution would Mosaic screens be? <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> The thing I'm more afraid of in this line of questioning is that what happens when the time comes that internet is no longer text anywhere. Then what do we do? <SKUNKY> Whatever the windows user has his or her resolution set to. 640 480 at a minimum, 800 600 more likely. Doc, I dont know. <THE.OUTLAW> good point Doc <SKUNKY> I won't be a happy person.. but I don't forsee that happening for quite a number of years. <CMD-DOUG> A 128 can only do a little better than 640 x 400 in interlaced mode... So that's the true killer. <SKUNKY> yeah, and you get a wondeful headache really fast too. <CMD-DOUG> Or wear cheap sunglasses a lot. ;) <SKUNKY> not really.. all of the graphics on WWW pages are .gif or.jpg files. So resolution wouldnt be a problem....... you'd just have a pic with crappy resolution on the users screen, or a pic bigger than their screen that they had to scroll through. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Depends on the monitor. The old IBM 5150 monitors actually look pretty good in interlace, but the Commodore 1084's aren't too cool. <SKUNKY> Now, 16 colors wouldn't be pretty. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Couldn't you reduce everything to monochrome. What do MAC Classic users do? <SKUNKY> I personally don't like people with pink eyes and orange faces. I don't think mosaic will RUN on a mac classic. <CMD-DOUG> No, and don't forget... we can't handle individual colors per pixel... <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> If so then the interface on the 128 could be written in monochrome. Better than nothing. <SKUNKY> but yes, whatever viewer used could just make everything black and white. Then you get to write a SLIP or PPP protocol stack. (: <CMD-DOUG> Somebody is working on SLIP, last I knew. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> This actually has been a real complaint of mine. There are no versions of the new protocols for the Commodore. <SKUNKY> so write it! <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Software has been the real major drag. The machines are pretty capable, but the market isn't here to really offer an incentive for really complex program. Most of our programming development has been in PD and shareware, with people doing part time work. Hard to keep up with all the professional teams of authors writting the really nasty codes. <SKUNKY> bedtime in 20 minutes............ <CMD-DOUG> Has GEnie announced how much Inet support is in OUR future on here? <SKUNKY> No. <THE.OUTLAW> What reading do you reccomend for new users to get ? <SKUNKY> In regards to what cam? <THE.OUTLAW> basic starting off.. how to get around etc. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Have the trial runs of the internet support been started? <SKUNKY> download the big dummy's guide to the internet and read it. I don't understand your question Doc. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> They had been asking for volunteers to try out the extended i-net services, and I did volunteer, but hadn't heard from them. So I was curious if anything has been happening? <THE.OUTLAW> Doc, those anouncements haven't been made <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I liked Zen and the Art of Internet. That was a neat one. <CMD-DOUG> Cam, we're picking up a book written by an ex-cbm'er called 'Simple Internet'. I'm waiting on a review copy now, but it came highly recommended. I'm sure we'll see it review in Commodore World, probably Issue 5 or 6. <THE.OUTLAW> Sounds good Doug! :> <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Would have been better if he wasn't an "ex-CBM'er." <SKUNKY> There are quite a few "beginner" files in the Internet RT library, search on beginner to find them. <THE.OUTLAW> I'll have to get a list of them and post them later, Skunky :> <SKUNKY> (: <THE.OUTLAW> Is there also an Phone book or yellow pages for the Internet? <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Actually I think there is a book called The Internet Yellow Pages. <SKUNKY> There are 2 Internet Yellow Pages. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> So I take it there's been no movement with GEnie on their extended Inet sercvices? <SKUNKY> Doctor, I cannot comment on that at this time. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Okay. <THE.OUTLAW> We have about 15 minutes or so left, if you have any questions that do not pertain to GEnie and Full access, go ahead and ask them :> <CMD-DOUG> Heh, well put Cam! ;) <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I'll have more questions when I can actually use GEnie to access Internet. For right now, what are some good Internet access providers? <THE.OUTLAW> Perhaps Skunky will consent to another conference when that becomes availeble :> <CMD-DOUG> I understand there is a new Internet standard coming to increase the number of 'addresses' available. Any idea when that will be implemented? <SKUNKY> Doc, depends on your area. (: Doug, I don't know..it needs to be soon, but they have to be careful what they do with it. <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Are there any national providers which are providing full Inet access? <SKUNKY> what do you classify "national providers" <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Providers which can be accessed using Tymnet or Sprintnet from a local area. <SKUNKY> delphi and cris. <THE.OUTLAW> How about Telenet sites? <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> What is cirs? <F.KIEFFER> Most of the local providers I've seen offer free Email as well as limited other access, and full access for a fee. <SKUNKY> cam, telenet=sprintnet. <THE.OUTLAW> IC <SKUNKY> cris is an internet provider that uses sprintnet. costs can vary greatly dependant on where you are. <F.KIEFFER> sure but check out the bookstores. New stuff shows up daily. Maybe you can find a provider in the BBS Magazines. <THE.OUTLAW> Well folks, thanks for coming.. Skunky will be a here a few more minutes, then He needs to Go. <CMD-DOUG> Even some local BBS's are getting in on the Inet offerings... the local board I use gives access to the Usenet Newsgroups and Inet Email as part of their $40/year fee. They're also adding telnet and irc for a slight additional charge. <THE.OUTLAW> Thankyou very much for coming tonight! :> <GEOS-TIM> Thanks Skunky...a very informative conference <SKUNKY> wheeeeeeeeee. (: <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Quick question, Skunky. Where did you get your handle? <GEOS-TIM> Good question <SKUNKY> long or short version of the story? <GEOS-TIM> Long <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Long <SKUNKY> I have very dark brown hair...almost black, I get my hair cut in a flat top, and it's a really really short flat top, so there is a white patch of scalp down the center of my head. One of my old roomies came in drunk one night, and decided I looked like a little skunky, so he started calling me that... the name stuck. (: <GEOS-TIM> :D <THE.OUTLAW> hehehe :> <SKUNKY> Well, it's been fun guys! (: <GEOS-TIM> Yes, it has <THE.OUTLAW> Thanks agin for coming Skunky! When GEnie anounces the Full Access feature, we'll try to set up another conference then :> <CMD-DOUG> Thanks, SKUNKY! ;) <GEOS-TIM> Thanks for coming in Skunky <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Thanks Skunky. <SKUNKY> (shameless plug warning.........) <GEOS-TIM> :::::::clapping:::::::: <THE.OUTLAW> hehehe had to do it <g> <SKUNKY> Feel free to drop by any of the Internet help desks...... we have them three nights a week....... <GEOS-TIM> will do <THE.OUTLAW> when and where? <CMD-DOUG> And tell 'em SKUNKY sent you. ;) <SKUNKY> on sundays at 8 in chat, tuesdays on 1405 at 10, and thursdays in chat at 10.. <THE.OUTLAW> Great! Thanks! :> <SKUNKY> I staff the help desk most nights. Nite all! <GEOS-TIM> Night Skunky <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Then we should get in good if we name drop. <THE.OUTLAW> G'night Skunky! :> <GEOS-TIM> :D <[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Night, Skunky! Thanks again!