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************ Topic 2 Mon Jun 29, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 19:00 EDT Sub: 1571 Can't read Side 2 of the Disk My 1571 has gone lame *AGAIN*. Can't read the back side of a doule= sided disk. Is there something I can do short of another $150 trip to the repair shop. 23 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 1 Mon Jun 29, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 19:05 EDT For the second time, my 1571 now fails to read the back side of double sided disks. The problem developed after an intensive period of copying (not protected software or anything exotic. Using FastHack'em 6.0 on files downloaded from GEnie, our user group bbs, etc. This is the same thing that happened last time. Fortunately, the club paid for it since I was using it to make disk copies of the club's library file. I was told it required a whole new internal mechanism, at a cost of $150. Is there a workaround, or a fix I can do myself or is this thing dead? I am not worried about my files, tho I can't acces them. I know they are safe. Just want to know if there is anything short of panic that I can do. Thanks! ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 2 Mon Jun 29, 1992 HOWIE-CBM at 21:04 EDT Ed, Didn't JBEE just mention about replacing the drive mechanism with any of the generic ones on the market today? I think they would cost around $50-55, altho I have seen some as low as $35-40. The thing is to identify a Make/Model number that is compatible, get a copy of Computer Shopper, and call the places that sell the drives, for one that has the needed make/model. BTW, all those calls ought to be toll freebies too! :) Howie ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 3 Tue Jun 30, 1992 M.DULSKI1 [Mark @WIZARD] at 02:45 EDT Ed, I had problems like that with one of my 1571's at one time. Would write to disk ok until a certain point, then all sorts of errors would show up. The remedy I used was to stretch the hold-down (lack of better description) spring located on the top side of the head assembly. It's rather small so careful you don't lose it ;) My drive hasn't given me any more trouble for the last 4 years. Sure beat sending it to the shop! ▐▐Mark▐▐ ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 4 Tue Jun 30, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 18:08 EDT I'm game, Mark. But do you stretch it so it pushes the head down or pulls the head up? I assume the down direction. On a more glum note, the drive won't even format a disk in any mode. I know it is one head only, because when I try to load a file that is on one side only, it gets the file just fine. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 5 Tue Jun 30, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 18:24 EDT Howie: I am sure I have an old Computer Shopper laying around somewhere, and I'm going to check tonight. Thanks. In the meantime, on the off- chance that anyone has the information at their fingertips, there is a label on the side of my drive mechanism... it say: D502 S/N50207835 Mitsumi Elec. Co. LTD. Newtronics Co. LTD. As I mentioned in the topic header, this is a replacement unit, but I am somewhere below neophyte in stuff like this. Does this label mean anything to anyone? Does anyone recognize a model number or have a source for this unit. If the price is right I may be able to get this fixed soon. Otherwise I am SOL til late august, due to vacation, etc. I don't want to buy new hardware (read new as 'used'), but I may have to explore that too. Ain't old age a bummer! Thanks all! ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 6 Tue Jun 30, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 20:30 EDT Howie (John), I located the posts about JB technologies in California, and called them this evening. They don't have anything to correspond with what I have. I tried bending that spring, to no effect. I'll get on FIDO for more info, cuz someone just asked this question. I answered with my personal experience (deja vu) but I want to get some more feedback from them. There are some real electronics gurus out there. Can't find my Computer Shopper, and I am just a little scared of that route because I know so little about what I am doing... if things are not perfectly matched, etc. I will keep on looking, and will aoppreciate any and all leads, suggestions, and information. Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 7 Tue Jun 30, 1992 R.WEEMS1 at 22:20 EDT Ed, I ran into the same situation myself with the internal 1571 in my 128D. The bottom r/w head went bad, and I discovered the entire drive module would have to be replaced at about $150. Since an new 1571 wasn't worth much more than that at the time, I decided there had to be a better (or at least cheaper) solution. I bought the latest copy of Computer Shopper and searched it front to back for distributors selling 360K 5.25" IBM drive modules made by Mitsumi (the manufacturer of the drive module in my internal 1571). Anyway, I found one for about $50 from a company called the Treasure Chest. The drive I got was nearly identical to the original one except for the r/w head :-(. Stepper motor, drive motor, etc. were all the same. The connectors were different, but, except for the r/w head, it was obvious how everything matched up. I had to do a little testing and use a little knowledge about r/w heads to figure out how to hook it up properly, but all in all, it was surprisingly simple. It's performed flawlessly for 2 years now, and I believe the module I got is of better quality than the original; it appeared to be a newer revision or something. Unless you're fairly comfortable with a soldering iron I wouldn't recommend doing it yourself. As far as I know Treasure Chest is still around, but anyone selling the Mitsumi drive mechanisms should do. Most likely it wouldn't even have to be a Mitsumi mechanism, although a drive module from a different manufacturer might be more difficult to get working. The label on the drive module I got has the following... ------------------------------------ D503V 0254629 Newtronics Co., LTD. [FCC stuff] FCC ID:GFZ D503V Cosigned by Mitsumi Elec Co., LTD. ------------------------------------ Apparently D503V is the model number. D502 is what's on your mechanim right? I just looked and that's what's on my old mechanism also. Hope this helps. -Randy Weems ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 8 Wed Jul 01, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 01:07 EDT I am going to my semi-local distributor tomorrow with the drive I pulled from my dead (again) C-128D and will be matching up drives to the new and used ones he has in stock. I hope to be able to pull at least a few compatible numbers up for you guys. If I see any dirt cheap ($25 or less) I will grab a couple. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 9 Wed Jul 01, 1992 HOWIE-CBM at 07:39 EDT Ed, On the off-chance that this might be a simpler prob than we have been led to believe, you might check out the wiring connections to the read/write heads. Look for a loose wire or connection. Howie ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 10 Wed Jul 01, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 21:42 EDT I'll definitely be waiting to hear from you on the mechanisms John. Howie: I had the cover off yesterday and was poking around in there. I changed the device number to 11 so I could leave it on line and use my 1581 as drive 8 (no particular reason for doing it that way). I was able to get the format to work sort of, but only to track 24 if I 'am taking the right meaning from the error returned when the drive burps. All of my 1571 format disks read only 664 blocks, or rather, 0 blocks free, because one side of them is filled. I can't really get a format to work at all, can't save prgs, etc. Here is what led up to it. I had been copying disks for about 2 hrs I guess, using Fast Hack'em 6.0 (all pd stuff, not anything copy protected or commercial or anything). It just stopped all of a sudden. There is one other thing that I have been wondering about too.... on some disks, the read/write slot (where the floppy peeks thru the envelope) seems to catch on the upper head. Only way to get it out is to play with it, but I'm wondering if that also took its toll. On the up side, maybe, if John can find a source of mechanisms for $25 or $30 (that a cow like me can install) it will be well worth keeping this drive and just feeding it a new mechanism every 2 or 3 years. And John, if you can do this, I will also post that out on FIDO because there are others I see from time to time that run into this. I know they wouldn't mind paying a reasonable price for something like that so that everyone makes a little. Thanks, and let me know how you make out. I'm really halfway into limbo without my 1571. :-( ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 11 Wed Jul 01, 1992 HOWIE-CBM at 23:50 EDT Ed, Yea, I agree. If its stopping at track 24, then it isn't even completing a format of side one. A disk getting stuck on the top head, which is the second side, shouldn't affect things on side one. Unless the heads move in tandem? Maybe they do? I've never looked at the inside while one was running. RX: Probably the new drive mechanism. :) Howie ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 12 Fri Jul 10, 1992 B.ENNIS1 at 03:39 EDT I am curious to know if this means that you can replace the entire mechanism of a 1571, or if this conversation is about some sort of part swapping like one disk drive head to another or something. If it's possible to just go and buy an IBM style 5 1/4" drive and use it instead of the mechanism within the 1571 I am interested. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 13 Fri Jul 10, 1992 HOWIE-CBM at 06:06 EDT Yup! :) Once you take off the case to a 1571, it is only 4 (or maybe 6?) screws that keep the drive mechanism attached. Oh! Two plugs, too. However, the tricky part is being certain that the 5 1/4" drive matches mechanically and electronically. Not all 5 1/4" drives are created equal... :( Howie ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 14 Sat Jul 18, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 16:41 EDT It is possible to replace just the mechanism, tho not with just any old mechanism, as Howie pointed out. What I *HATE* about this is that this is the second time this has happened to my 1571. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 15 Wed Jul 22, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 20:21 EDT Okay, I found a place where we can buy refurbished 360K drives for $30 :) Now the catch is I need help figuring out all the wiring as it doesn't match up. These are "Shugart" disk drives. They come with all the PC controller boards once you strip them down they are pretty much the same except the wires are different colors. Remembering what someone said about the number of wires in the R/W heads (5 vs 6) I got one with five wires! As far as I can tell, if you pop the wire terminals out of the connectors and into the C-128D (or external 1571 connectors) connectors in the right order these drives should work. The stepper motor setup looks a bit different and I don't know about the power consumption but they are 1.8 degree steppers. They "might" not to 1/2 tracks, no big loss unless you play games. Since I don't have my repair manuals for the 1571 or C-128D since I gave them all to ZIP I am in the dark about what connections are what. I wouldn't even be able to start guessing. So here is my offer. If someone has the skill and proven know-how about hardware type things I will send you the drive to fix PLUS write up the fix as hardware article for TC-128. I will pay you a moderate amount of cash and a free subscription. Figure this has to be better than the $150 cost quoted in Compute for a new drive assembly from Commodore! Ed, so if you know anyone on the nets willing to tackle this let me know. I picked "Shugart" because they are an industry standard setter. If you have to buy a disk drive having the Shugart model number to cross reference to something else makes finding replacements easier. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 16 Wed Jul 22, 1992 YLR.ROSE [Flag*Staff] at 20:42 EDT to all.. an excellent source for C= repair parts at an exceptionally reasonable price is KASARA.. 1800-248-2983. They will ship COD if package is going to an office, they take MC and Visa, personal checks, etc. They actually found a brand new 128D keyboard for me for only $100 and change.. and Jim, who usually answers the phone, is EXTREMELY knowledgeable about every Commodore made.. I swear he has the schematics to all the models in his head.. give him a call! :> ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 17 Wed Jul 22, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 22:47 EDT JBEE. I do know someone who is extremely knowledgeable about such things but I can't mention his name publicly, per his request. I am sure he would do all the work without requiring any of the perks you mention. I'll contact him via letter and see if he would be interested. The perk for you is that this person is someone with a lot of experience, and I know he has been looking for an outlet for at least some of his old stuff that had been slated for publication in the T when it went belly up. Let me contact him and see what he says. I don't know if he is still interested in publishing his stuff, but I'm sure if he does the work, he will pass on the way it is done. YLR.ROSE, that information will also be passed aong to a lot of people who usually manage to have a lot of questions about stuff like that. Thanks for the major help, John. I'm going to get right on this now cuz I am in dire need. I'll let you know as soon as I get word, and I suspect that we can get things moving. EXCELLENT! ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 18 Thu Jul 23, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 00:55 EDT You're welcome :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 19 Sun Sep 27, 1992 MIKE.DUNCAN at 22:55 EDT Speaking of drive heads, check out this └Beleive It Or Not!' experience that I recently had with a non-working 1571 disk drive. Here's what it was doing: ------------------------- * Would not format a double-sided disk. Single-Sided--no problem. But when it came to double-sided, it would bomb as it started on the second side. (24 or 26,READ ERROR,00,00) * Showed 664 Blocks Free on a newly formatted double-sided disk, that was formatted on a known-good 1571. * Could not access anything on tracks 36 thru 70. Here's what I did: ------------------ * Cleaned the heads with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol. (Made me feel better. But still NOGO.) * Tried a different format. MS-DOS, 9 Sector. (Don't ask me why.) And it worked! And it checked good. (I use the MS-DOS Disk Formatter program from RUN #65 / May 1989) * Tried the regular Commodore format again. It worked! And again and again and again. It kept working. And it still does. And └Beleive It Or Not' (I couldn't beleive it myself.) ---------------------- I had another C=1571 drive mechanism on the shelf for the same problem. And when I put it through the same process, (sans the cleaning, cuz I had tried that on this one before) and *it* came-up formatting! Man! I really couldn't beleive it. All I'm saying is that if it worked for me TWICE, it could work for others. I hope so. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 20 Mon Sep 28, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 14:33 EDT That was exactly the same problem I had. Course, I didn't do anyting w/the IBM format, but a very good cleaning did the trick for me. I am not one to do that kind of tear-down, but what did I have to lose. I just don't know why when I re-assembled it it did not need alignment of any kind because the fit of the heads is not what I would call precision. I'm still very interested to hear what John comes up with w/that Shugart mechanism! It should prove to be of interest to a LOT of us CBM owners as the 1571's get older. ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 21 Tue Sep 29, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 01:29 EDT Someone's working on it :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 22 Tue Sep 29, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 02:56 EDT And I bet more than one person is anxiously awaiting news of success! ;^) ------------ Category 4, Topic 2 Message 23 Sat Nov 21, 1992 J.ROBBINS16 [JBUS] at 04:42 EST U-bet! :] ------------ ************ Topic 3 Thu Dec 31, 1992 F.CANANZI (Forwarded) Sub: nx10c help with nx10c 4 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 3 Message 1 Thu Dec 31, 1992 F.CANANZI (Forwarded) help I just got this printer from a friend for nothing. Here is the problem.. I have no manual or any idea on how to get it to work. Anyone have the printer that can help me get going? ------------ Category 4, Topic 3 Message 2 Fri Jan 01, 1993 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) If you have Geos there are drivers that will work with it and should eliminate having to fool around with it. Do you know if it is an Epson or 1525 compatible printer? ------------ Category 4, Topic 3 Message 3 Sat Mar 13, 1993 M.BARNETT4 [BUBBA] at 08:29 EST I have a Star SL-10C with the built in serial port, and I would like to run it off my Amiga. Does anyone know of a hardware hack to do this? Thanx Bubba ------------ Category 4, Topic 3 Message 4 Sat Mar 13, 1993 C128.JBEE at 15:26 EST It has been a couple of years since I sold my Amigas so I am sure this is a bit dated but I used "The Emulator 64" by Readysoft that came with a cable for hooking up the disk drive to the Amiga parallel port. I had a spare drive so I just hooked up the cable to the serial port and feed the printer out the other drive serial port. Considering brand new 9 pin printers are only <$150 and T.E.64 is $50+ a new printer looks affordable :) There are hardware hacks with build it yourself cables but you should ask about that in the STARSHIP$ RT. Just type AMIGA from any system prompt. ------------