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rea 5 nor ************ Topic 5 Tue Sep 21, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:22 EDT Sub: The >>>NEW<<< Commodore! C'mon, has NO-ONE seen the ad for the NEW 8-bit Commodore computer...?!? The machine no-one thought would see the light of day...? The 64 with a built-in 1581...? The COMMODORE 65! 114 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 1 Tue Sep 21, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:24 EDT Yes, in of all things the new issue of AmigaWorld, the latest Grapevine ad shows us the machine we all thought was rumor not only exists but is for sale in North America and Europe. From what little info I have heard straight from Grapevine, it's a 64c with an in-built 1581 disk drive "up-front", I imagine under the keyboard as some laptops have them. So. Who's got one? Comments? ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 2 Wed Sep 22, 1993 C128.JBEE at 01:33 EDT It is a very limited edition ;D ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 3 Wed Sep 22, 1993 B.VRIELING1 at 18:47 EDT About that C65... The ones being advertised are "beta" models produced by Commodore, and were never really meant to see the light of day. CBM had a couple hundred of them, and recently liquidated the assets of one of its warehouses. Grapevine (?) got the stockpile. They come with no warranty, and servicing for the units is non-existant. So, buyer beware! This info came straight from Fred Bowen from comp.sys.cbm on the Internet. He says he still uses his, and likes it... ...Bruce GEnie: B.VRIELING1 Internet: bvrieling@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Fido: Bruce Vrieling @ 1:229/15 ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 4 Wed Sep 22, 1993 C128.JBEE at 19:22 EDT Bruce is correct. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 6 Thu Sep 23, 1993 H.HERMAN1 at 05:49 EDT Jeff, It certainly is a lot more. To quote Fred Bowen (Bil Herd's friend!), he described it as: --- begin quote --- Apparently Grapevine picked up some C65's during Commodore's liquidation of its warehouse/storage areas a couple months ago. What is a C65? A product that almost made it out the door. What you're seeing are "alpha" pilot-production units. There were only something like 50 units made, and a dozen or more of these were distributed around engineering, system developers, etc. Obviously, they were never meant to be sold to the public, but... CPU CSG65CE02, running at 3.54MHz RAM 128K, expansion to `8MB ROM 128K, including C65 mode (v10.0), C64 (v2.2) mode, & DOS Video CSG4567 "VIC-III" analog RGB with composite sync on each primary, separate active-high digital sync, composite chroa/luma, digital fgnd/bgnd control (genlock) all original C64 video modes (40x25 text, 320x200 bitmap) new modes (80x25 text,with blink,bold,underline attributes) true bitplane graphics (VGA resolution): 320, 640, 1280 horz. pixels in 8, 4, or 2 planes 200, 400 vert. pixels, non-interlaced & interlaced DAT "display address translator" to access display memory standard 16-color C64 palette programmable 256-color palette with 16 intensity levels per primary color. Audio Stereo SID chips Keybd 77 keys, including separate cursor keys, ALT, ESC, etc. Disk Built-in 3.5" double-sided, 1MB MFM (1581 format) custom 4191 controller with 512 byte buffer and parallel bus external mini-DIN for one A1011-type expansion drive. accepts CBM serial drives (1541,1571,1581), fast/slow/burst I/O Built-in DMA/blitter Built-in 6511-type UART, supports MIDI data rate. All C64 ports: parallel, expansion, etc. new RAM expansion port, accessible by DMA and video chips. I guess that's enough for now. But be warned- these boards are very out of date- the ROMs, PLA's, etc. are pre-pre-preALPHA, there are absolutely NO spare parts (so if it breaks, that's it!), all systems are PAL (but they display okay on regular 1084-type monitors in analog mode). Oh, and there aren't any manuals. I'm surprised that Grapevine can sell them as "new" equipment. Buyer beware, and all that. All things considered, not a bad machine, though. I still use mine :-) -- -- Fred Bowen uucp: ...!rutgers!cbmvax!fred domain: fred@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com tele: 215 431-9100 Commodore Electronics, Ltd., 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA, 19380 --- end quote --- While I do not understand the technical part, the overall description comes down to one very sweet, capable machine. I like the 3 MHz, UART, and stereo SID. Thinking about it, once I plug a Stereo SID Cartridge, and SwiftLink, and get one of those fast soon(?) to appear speed-up ZIP boards into my C128D, it may begin to mimic the C-65... It is a shame that Commodore didn't follow through on this one. Some outstanding software could have been running under this expanded capability. Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 8 Sat Sep 25, 1993 C128.JBEE at 04:00 EDT I lean towards believing Fred ;) This computer has been around in one form or another since at least since at least 1990. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 9 Sat Sep 25, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 18:08 EDT So, do they work? And if so, how much is one. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 10 Sat Sep 25, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:38 EDT Well, the guy I talked to at Grapevine says it is a new European release and that they (Grapevine) would be carrying it indefinitely. He told me it was nothing more than a 64 with a built-in 1581 up front (under the keyboard, I assume). The current ad price is $95 and change, plus shipping, with a disclaimer that all advertized prices are subject to change. Me...? I'm gonna order one. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 11 Sat Sep 25, 1993 D.COZORT2 at 23:53 EDT On the C65: I called Gravine and was told: 1) They have about 150 C65s. (2)around 2000 were produced. (3) Price is somewhere around $120 (I forget the exact price). That is $20-30 higher than their ads say. Apparently they forgot to add in the cost of the power supply. (4) There is no warranty beyond "It worked when we shipped it", and the computer comes without manuals. (5) According to them it has a high degree of compatibility with C64 software. (That may or may not be true. I seem to recall that the processor in the C65 filled in several of the op codes that are not formally defined in the 6510 but which do things and have been used in some programs. Also, there may be some timing problems, even if the processor has a 1 Mhz mode, because I seem to recall that the C65's processor is internally more efficient, and run about 25% faster at any given clock speed than a 6510. (6) Don't hold your breath on getting much of anything from Grapevine fast right now. They have multiple trailer-loads of stuff that is in high demand, but that is not shipable without some tweaking--the computer may be here, the power supply there, and the other cords over somewhere else. They have a staff of a dozen or less to sort through all of this, pull the stuff, make sure it is all there and works, then ship it. So, the bottom line is: be a little wary and be ready for some hassles. On the other hand, this is probably your only chance to get your hands on the last and fastest of the C= 8-bit line. I wouldn't get this thing as my kid brother's first computer. If I had $120-130 to spare and if I was willing to accept the fact that I would end up with an unfixable computer that will probably run less software than my C64, and just wanted to hack around with it, then it might make sense. If you aren't a programmer and at least a little handy in hardware, I would really advise staying away from this thing. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 12 Sun Sep 26, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 02:31 EDT I love it, a challenge. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 13 Sun Sep 26, 1993 R.DAY at 06:47 EDT 6510 65C02 more code That is why it will not be a 100% If you have a Turbo Master CPU it has a 65C02 in it. this CPU has more codes then the 6502 or 6510 some people used codes that were not ment to use in the 6502 but they do some things. The same codes in a 65C02 will not do the same things But the 65C02 is better you can do things with one code that would take 2 or 3 on the 6502. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 14 Tue Sep 28, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:57 EDT So, anyone on good enough terms with Fred Bowen (JBEE...?) to get him to write up a few pointers, or maybe even a Programmers Reference Guide...? ;) ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 15 Thu Sep 30, 1993 R.DAY at 03:56 EDT Could this C65 be one that Commodore was working on when they wanted a Amiga typed computer and then did find some one working on a Amiga and droped the C65 to go to a Amiga 16 bit not a C65 8 bit? ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 16 Thu Sep 30, 1993 C128.JBEE at 06:26 EDT R.DAY, I do not believe so. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 17 Sat Oct 02, 1993 L.MCCLURE at 03:20 EDT I placed an order with Grapevine yesterday for a C65. Price was $129+, along with $10 more for shipping and handling. The salesperson stated it would be at least two weeks before they began shipping them. If I could afford to order two (in order to have a 'parts' machine), I would. However, there is always hope someone else will order one, and their machine will break before mine, and they'll sell it. <grin> Seriously, I hope my luck with computers holds out. I don't recall having a DOA machine, or one that later needed repair yet (knocking on wood, crossing fingers, throwing salt over my shoulder...). ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 18 Sun Oct 03, 1993 M.NEUS at 19:40 EDT Huh?? I suspect youy ment C64, not C65. If not, what is a C65???? Mike ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 20 Sat Oct 09, 1993 L.MCCLURE at 02:56 EDT M.NEUS: I meant C65, not C64. The C65 is what this entire topic is about. I suggest you do a "REA 5" and check out all the info here. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 21 Thu Oct 14, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 02:17 EDT I've ordered my C-65. They said it would be about 4 weeks. That was about 3 weeks ago. I suppose it should be showing up, but knowing Grapevine it could be a while to wait yet. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 22 Sat Nov 06, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 19:31 EST Well, it's been five weeks since I (we) orderes and JOE at the vine has said that the crystals needed to be changed and that they didn't do that sort of thing so they were sent out, hence the long wait. I have my order sheet with the backordered C65 on it, so I was told that mine (ours) is waiting to be shipped. He suggested to call back next week if we didn't get it yet We await in great anticipation the arrival of the 'new' machines. The 1750 motherboard that I ordered (advertized as unpopulated) came in fully populated but not working correctly, well, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth, the chips seem to be good, but the mmu hangs up. It came packaged in the RF case only, no plastic. (no problem being as it will installed in the 128D internally.) We await the 65. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 23 Sun Nov 07, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 15:57 EST I still haven't received my C-65 I ordered either. I hope that this doesn't turn out to be a vaporware machine. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 24 Sun Nov 07, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 20:19 EST I've seen one, and it was from Grapevine, so they do exist. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 25 Mon Nov 08, 1993 K.DAVE at 18:09 EST Gee Doug... How about telling us about it? ::anxiously awaiting details:: ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 26 Mon Nov 08, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 18:15 EST Not much to tell. I only saw it for a few minutes before sending it back, and never even got it completely out of the box. But I saw enough to know that it did exist. :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 27 Mon Nov 08, 1993 THE.OUTLAW at 19:20 EST In other words it wasn't worth the hype & price? ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 28 Mon Nov 08, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 22:11 EST That wasn't the reason. Actually, it came in with some other items which turned out to be something other than what we had wanted, so the entire shipment had to go back together. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 29 Mon Nov 08, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:49 EST Doug, you sent the whole order back?? They didn't give you a return number to allow you to send back only the stuff you didn't want? Oh well, was it putty colored like the 64's? Did it have a good (?) look to it, from a design point of view? You can tell I'm anxious to recive mine. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 30 Tue Nov 09, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 21:17 EST It was the same color as the 64C, and the 3.5" drive access was on the front facing the user... hard to explain this, but as the body of the machine sloped down (where the keyboard is) it came to a point on the right hand side where the plastic was extruded, then right angled down. It was on this vertical face where the drive access slot was located. Beyond that I didn't see very much. The box, btw, was a COD. Our carrier generally drops them off to the various business' in our complex then comes back around to collect. When we noticed that the other contents were not what we had requested, we closed the box back up and had them send it back as opposed to paying for it and having to ship everything else back and wait for a refund. We got the items we needed from another source at that point, so we never got back in touch with Grapevine about getting the C-65 shipped in again. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 31 Thu Nov 11, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 00:19 EST Thats a real bummer Doug, I see how it had to go, and thanks for the info on it. I sent E-mail to C.LEAZOTT1 as per what the flyer said his address was at Genie, a couple days ago, (time flyes when you work shift) but didn't receive a reply as of yet. He must be very busy. I explained what I recived (and what I didn't) and asked for a quick update as to what was going on with the 65's. Being as my split personality was here as well, he got into the act as well. No reply. Sort of like being put on hold. I've had (so far) good luck with grapvine as a source of Commodore parts, I hope it continues. Ram (G side) ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 32 Thu Nov 11, 1993 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) > I sent E-mail to C.LEAZOTT1 as per what the flyer said his address was at If this is the person that worked at Grapevine, they do not work there anymore according to their purchasing manager. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 33 Thu Nov 11, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 16:05 EST Personally, I think they got into something that they thought they knew what it was, but found out different after they had it, and are trying to do what is necessary to resolve things. I can tell you that when they got the 65's, they thought they were just 64's with 1581 drives built in. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 34 Thu Nov 11, 1993 M.RANDALL2 [Maurice] at 19:40 EST Supposedly, the Grapevine Group only had about 300 of these C65's and they went fast. They are all sold out. I think if Commodore had went ahead with the production of these a couple of years back, they could have kept an 8-bit market alive along with the Amiga. There would have been nothing wrong with this sort of marketing. After all, Ford Motor Company still sells the Escort don't they. (actually the worst car Ford has ever built, but they know how to sell them). ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 35 Sat Nov 13, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:36 EST JBEE, I got a reply to the E-mail on 07/11/93 from C.LEAZOTT1 . All he said was that I spoke to the owner when I called on the phone, the owner was Joel Kornreich. According to Chuck, The owner knowes all there is to know about the C65's. "Since the inception of our advertisement with the C-65 and other items from Commodore, we have had a ZILLION calls over it. last month we tallied over12,000 calls. As you can see... we have been selling out of a lot of items, however, I (personally) do not know what the statis of the C-65 is/was." This is the 'jest' of what I recived. Now come monday, I'll call the Grape and ask them what the story is. Chuck has given me two names to go to for info. Joel, as stated above, and MONA (unknown office person). Not much more to go on but it's a better start than most. I'll keep you informed as to my progress. Ramrunner (Gil) ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 36 Sat Nov 27, 1993 R.DAY at 03:16 EST I got a letter from Grapevine, they said the 1st release was NTSC video. now they have the second release and can't find the chip(s) to convert the C65 to NTSC. They said if you want it in PAL video let them know or in 2 weeks they will assume you don't want it. Do you need new chip(s) to convert it from PAL to NTSC? On the C64 I thought it was just a trace. or do you need other chip(s) to convert a C64 too? ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 37 Sat Nov 27, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 03:25 EST Well, this ISN'T a 64. The 'C65' has a unique video chip dubbed the 'VIC-III'. Since the product was planned for European consumption, this new chip was designed for the PAL video standard, and no NTSC version of that chip was ever produced that I'm aware of. The PAL version WILL work here in the states, but you'll need a multi-sync monitor to use with it. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 38 Sat Nov 27, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 19:46 EST Doug, is this the same type of monitor that the (GASP) IBM's use? ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 39 Sat Nov 27, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 22:39 EST ...Or will a 1084S-type suffice? They claim in their letter that the first batch went out configured for NTSC, and had no problems. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 40 Sat Nov 27, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 23:14 EST I use a multi-sync on a Mac, but yes, they are used on beamers too. Couldn't vouch for usability on a 1084S, nor could I vouch for the existance of any NTSC versions of the machine - I haven't seen a single post from anyone who ever got one of these either here, on Q, or INET. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 41 Sun Nov 28, 1993 R.DAY at 04:22 EST So if you did get one that put out PAL on a NTSC monitor what would it look like? Would some of the video be cut out or not fill up all the screen? ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 42 Sun Nov 28, 1993 CMD-DOUG at 12:02 EST If it's anything like the PAL 128, we saw a smaller screen in black and white only. Not only are the scan line differences a problem, but I believe the whole video signal differs enough that you lose the color information when trying to display it on an NTSC monitor. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 43 Mon Nov 29, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 20:28 EST Well, can't speak for Gil ;) but my order's canceled as soon as I get the chance to call 'em. MAJOR disappointment, and not good for Grapevine- my track record with them has been Not Good. Last year when I finally broke down and [[Shields Up]] bought an Amiga 500 [[Cap'n! The ship canna take much more o' this!]] I ordered the mandatory 512K RAM expander from them. When I called to check its availability before placing the order, the person on the other end said, sure, no problem, they're in stock. A week and a half later I called, wondering why they were so slow in delivering, and they claimed backorder, be in in a few days and you'll have it by next week. The following week when I called they said the order didn't come in, but was expected the next day, my name was waaaay up near the top of the list and I'd get it in a few days. The FOLLOWING week... suffice it to say I had the RAM expander- in two months. Me, I'm not too likely to deal with the company again. -RAMRunner's Evil Twin, FLASH-RAM. -Keith ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 44 Tue Nov 30, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 01:29 EST There's been many a horror story with Grapevine. I would say they might of got in over their heads on the C65. The designer said (unoffically) in a conference that the machine had over 30 additional commands and lots of nifty stuff and not to underestimate the machine. Personally, I think I'm going to cancel the order. I can't really justify spending the money on a machine I'm not sure is going to work. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 45 Tue Nov 30, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 23:36 EST Has anyone recived the letter spoke of in the last couple of days? I for one would still like to see the 65, if all it needs is a multi-sync monitor, then I would like toy with it. I haven't yet heard from the grape but would like to know if any one else has. Ramrunner ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 46 Wed Dec 01, 1993 C.OGLE2 [V128_B.Stick] at 23:33 EST Sorry to hear that people are considering cancelling their C65 orders...:( Maybe I'll call 'em tomorrow and see if I can get on the waiting list now:) Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 47 Wed Dec 01, 1993 P.KELLER5 at 23:57 EST Well I heard there are no documents to the C65 either! I just can't buy a machine that dosen't have some documents with it or can't be repaired because there are no repair manuals in the U.S. Too risky! ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 48 Thu Dec 02, 1993 C128.JBEE at 19:01 EST I would not be too harsh on Grapevine. I bet what they were told they were buying and what they got are two different things. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 49 Sun Dec 05, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 18:26 EST I don't blame Grapevine too much. I'm just disappointed. Also, they have in the past been somewhat discourteous on the phone, as well as not shipping the proper parts. But, overall I think they do a pretty good job. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 50 Mon Dec 06, 1993 L.MCCLURE at 06:20 EST When picking up the comp.sys.cbm messages off Usenet tonight, I actually came across a report from someone that has recieved their C65 from Grapevine! <GASP> However, according to their report, they apparently did not ask about the power supply (as I did), and recieved not only a PAL computer, but a UK power supply. However, the power supply outputs 12 & 5 volts on a 4-pin DIN plug, so it should be easy to adapt a PC power supply. (For that matter, a 1541-II/1581 power supply might work...they use a 4-pin DIN, as I recall [I've got a 1581, but can't check the PS at the moment]). I think I may go ahead and reaffirm my order for the C65 as is, and forget about spending the extra $20 for the US power supply, and rig my own. If anyone is interested <grin>, I'll repost that message here from the fellow who got the C65. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 51 Mon Dec 06, 1993 G.CORREA [RAMRunner] at 22:20 EST Definitely. We'd like to see something from someone who actually *has* one! ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 52 Fri Dec 10, 1993 L.MCCLURE at 22:50 EST Okay...here's the message from the guy on Usenet: ================================================= I have a C65!!! :))))))))))) From: Russell Alphey <ralphey@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU> Date: 1 Dec 1993 06:49:15 GMT (5 screens) With trembling hands I opened the large box from The Grapevine Group. My wife grabbed the invoice and said, "What's a C65 with built-in disk drive?". This is what I hoped to find out! "Ta-da!" A box full of foam beads. Dig, dig, what's this? Something solid... And in the box was - 1 D.S.G. packet, 1 piece carbon paper - crumpled, 1 latex glove - grey, 1 packet containing a 75 Ohm co-ax cable with identical ends (the sort that plug into a C64) and a TV-computer switch box, 1 beige power supply, with the familiar C= on top, a 4 pin round connecter at one end and a flat 2 pin wall plug with round pins. The underside has "FOR C65 ONLY POWER SUPPLY". The word C65 is on a sticker. Oh, there was one other thing in the box :))))))))))))))))))))) A computer. Normal C= beige colo(u)r. Key lettering like that on a C128. Computer is about 18" by 8", and like a flat 128, but no separate keypad (there's a 3.5" disk drive there instead :). The drive points forward, with the eject button on the leading edge of the keyboard. Key layout is as follows. <power <drive light> light> Run Caps No F1 F3 F5 F7 F9 F11 F13 Help Stop Esc Alt Lock Scroll F2 F4 F6 F8 F10 F12 F14 <- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 + - # Clr Inst Tab q w e r t y u i o p @ * ^ Restore Ctrl S/Lock a s d f g h j k l : ; = return C= Shift z x c v b n m < > / Shift ^ ...........space............... < v > Note that # is the English pound symbol. Also, there's a spot where a metal plaque could go, like on the 64s. Okay, now for a tour around the computer. Left side has a reset button, Cont port 1 and 2 (joystick ports), the power switch and power inlet. Right side is blank. Back has, (from left as you look at it) a round hole labelled disk drive (but nothing there), a video port (like 128's), a switch (or screw) labelled "L H", an RF port, an RGB video port, a Stereo port with R & L ports, a User port, a CBM serial port, and finally an expansion port. Underneath there's a flap which conceals what appears to be a miniture centronics port, and the manufacturer's label. It reads - C= commodore Model C65 Power 5vDC @ 2.2A 12vDC @ 5A SERIAL NO. 000062 :))))))))))))))))))))))))))) FCC ID NO. made in hong kong Funkenstort n.DBP-Vtg 1046/84 So there you have it, a real? C65. (The :)))) above is my editorial comment!) Unfortunately I can't tell you anything about its operation yet, because I haven't fired it up yet (mainly due to the incorrect plug on the power supply). But rest assured I'll report as soon as I do! :) Ralphey. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -+ You are now the proud recipient of a genuine Ralphey .sig! Accept no imitations. ralphey@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au +------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- =================================== So there you have it. Frankly, I am curious to find out what the "minature centronics port" is he described as being on the underside. Since I'll have to wire up a new (110V) power supply when I get the machine (given those ratings, I doubt a 1581 power supply would work), likely the first thing I'll do when I get my C65 is open it up and start mapping the innards. Given that there are no docs, it is going to be a real adventure discovering what the extra BASIC commands are in BASIC 10.0 in this baby. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 53 Sat Dec 11, 1993 H.HERMAN1 at 04:02 EST It would be intereeting to know if the Basic10 is backward compatible with Basic7, just as Basic7 is backward compatible with Basic2. Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 55 Sun Dec 12, 1993 L.MCCLURE at 10:09 EST It is almost certain the BASIC 10.0 is backward compatible with BASIC 7.0. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 56 Thu Dec 16, 1993 C.OGLE2 [V128_B.Stick] at 03:47 EST I talked to Grapevine this morning, and they once again have plenty of C65's in start... the only problem is they say that it turns out that the part Commodore was supposed to manufacture that would convert the PAL version to NTSC was never produced... so, unless I move to Europe, I will not be able use this puppy... Just out of curiousity, I would like to obtain one anyway, just to try & convert it myself. Does anybody have any experience with such a project? Breadstick ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 57 Thu Dec 16, 1993 R.DAY at 18:51 EST Well I called then all so. They said they sent my c65 out. But I should of got it all ready and did not. So I said can you chack on it She did and said O they did not take it out of the wair house yet. It will be mailed out to you today or tomarrow. That was 3 days ago. I asked why did you said it was sent out December 6? She said it must be a mustack. But any way I herd it takes 5 volts and 12 volts. I have a power supply that does that and can power my 1581 and 3 1541-II's. So I will open up the C65 and follow the 5 and 12 volts from the bilt in 1581 to see how they hook up. I hope on my 1084 monitor that I can see at lest most of the top of the desplay. I will let all know who it goes it I get my c65. It's all ready on my bill. Can't beleave it takes them so long! :\ ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 58 Sun Dec 19, 1993 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 16:59 EST Try CMD's HD power supply. It has +12 and +5 and is pretty hefty. Doc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 59 Mon Dec 20, 1993 L.MCCLURE at 03:40 EST At one point Grapevine offered to sell me a US (110V) power supply to work with the C65, so apparently one of the other Commodore power supplies works with it. However, since it uses 12 volts & 5 volts, I decided to adapt a PC power supply for it, using the connector off the European power supply that comes with the C65. As to the video, many RGB analog monitors can actually handle the 50Hz scan rate of PAL video, so if you already have a Commodore 1080 or 1084, you should have no problem (you may need to adjust the vertical hold control). After trying my Amiga in PAL mode on my 1080, I can say the only problem I had is that I can detect flicker in non-interlaced PAL mode, and do not with NTSC. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 60 Thu Dec 23, 1993 R.DAY at 20:08 EST I have my c65! Got it today about 3 hours ago. I looked at how the power plug hooks up and it's the same as the 1581! Only it needs 2.2 amps for +5 volts and .5 amps for the 12 volts. I just pluged in my power supply from my 1581 that will all so power 3 other drives. It came up the 1st time on my 1084 monitor. The 9 pin plug plugs right in and the U shaped din plugs right in. Only black and wight in 40 mode but color in 80 mode. looks like a 128 using 40 or 80 in the 80 mode. The power pupply that comes with it does not have any plug on the end for the power to the wall. Input says 240VAC 0.17A. You can hold down the C= key to be in 64 mode. Stereo player will load and work but does not see the 2nd 8580 sid chip. There is 2 of them in the c65. My guess is the 2nd one is addressed at $d480. I will have to check it out. The bilt in drive is a 81 says 73,copyright cbm cbdos v1.0,00,00 The one in my C65 does not work too good. I have to figger out how to make it a nother device #. You can plug in a C= modem and the cartridge port will not fit c64 or 128 cartridges. I think it would with a adapter. The pins are closer together just a little. in the c65 mode you can to in a moniter it's like the 128. You can even say go64 and it ask are you sure? It goes there right away. The video is very good. It just has a border on the top and buttom about 1 inch. each and the sides are a little showing. So that the screen is a little wider. Well any one can get this! Just get the HD power pupply from CMD. But this cost I think $50. It should plug right in to the C65! I got mine from a nother place and had to put a case on it but only cost me about $30. Has more amps then the CMD one too. Well I will have to figger this one how it works more but looks like it's just a nother 128 with a bilt in 1581. The inside on the board said for some chip names: DMAGIC, VICTOR, BILL, and ELMER. It all so has this: LASSA/GARDEI/NINESPCB/ANDRADE/JP/TL/HM/TC/CW/FISH/HD/GT/DF/BF/ETC and mine says C64 DX REV 2B commodore electronics ltd copyright (c) 191990 all rights reserved. Well I guess that's all I can say about it. It just took them long to get it to me. I will have to clean some of the dust off the keyboard too. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 61 Fri Dec 24, 1993 H.HERMAN1 at 02:47 EST Hmmm.....