ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/old/V96n18.txt

Internet Message Format | 1998-03-08 | 31KB

From xmission.com!zorn-list-digest-request Fri May  3 22:09:52 1996
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
Received: from xmission.xmission.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP
    id m0uFYW2-0003x6C; Fri, 3 May 96 21:00 PDT
Received: (from root@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) id VAA18493; Fri, 3 May 1996 21:37:39 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 21:37:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn-list-digest Digest V96 #18
X-Loop: [e-mail]
X-Mailing-List: <[e-mail]> archive/volume96/18
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: [e-mail]
Status: RO

------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

zorn-list-digest Digest                Volume 96 : Issue 18

Today's Topics:
  Re: Zorn on MTV                       [ [e-mail] ]
  Masada translations                   [ Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]-c. ]
  David Shea and other collaborators    [ N Vassiliou <[e-mail].u ]
  naked city                            [ "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" < ]
  Crimson vs Downtown                   [ "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]> ]
  Anyone see Zorn in Northampton?       [ [e-mail] ]
  Zubi Zuva, PSF, & FW III              [ Dave Keffer <[e-mail] ]
  Re: naked city                        [ Stickman <[e-mail]> ]
  Masada scores                         [ Alain Potvin <[e-mail].c ]
  Re: naked city                        [ N Vassiliou <[e-mail].u ]
  Re: naked city                        [ "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" < ]
  re: Crimson vs. Downtown scene        [ Stickman <[e-mail]> ]
  more KC                               [ [e-mail] (Ray Peck) ]
  Re: naked city]/actually Masada       [ Stickman <[e-mail]> ]
  Marc Ribot                            [ Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]-c. ]
  Re: naked city                        [ [e-mail] ]
  Re: Crimson vs. Downtown scene        [ "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichi ]
  Re: Re: Crimson vs. Downtown scene    [ [e-mail] ]
  Re: naked city                        [ "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" < ]
  Re: naked city                        [ "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichi ]
  Re: Crimson vs Downtown               [ Stickman <[e-mail]> ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:08:47 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn on MTV
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

Well, to tell you the bizarre truth, I have seen a Naked City VIDEO on MTV!
  Yes, it was Batman, and yes it was way back when that album was NEW.   They
played it late night on their "alternative" show 120 Minutes.  The video was
compromised almost solely of black and white film of gangster scenes,
including footage of the dead man on the cover of the Naked City album from
different angles.   Naked City on MTV, hard to believe but true.   I think
it's safe to say they only played it once.   Music history, as the world
sleeps.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:55:54 +0200 (METDST)
From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
To: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada translations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I few weeks ago somebody from this list, emailed me about the
translations of the Masada titles, and some jewish culture stuff. Could
he please email me again (I lost your adress)

Jonas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:27:13 +0100 (BST)
From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: David Shea and other collaborators
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Since i have not seen any reference to any of his works(although he has
worked with Zorn and has a Tzadik release) i thought i'd give my opinion
on I, his solo sampler work.
For one thing, it is difficult to believe that everything on the CD comes
from his sampler, in real time as he states in the notes. Although
musically it does not sound at all like Zorn, the themes of the tracks are
quite similar:Screwy Squirrel and Tex(Avery) with their Warner Bros
samplesand Alpha(probably the best track), inspired from Godaurd's
Alphaville. Inspired is the key word here, since Shea does not rework
the soundtrack of the film or make an alternative soundtrack(as in Bill
Frisell's Buster Keaton works), but creates music inspired from it, that
can stand alone by itself, as Shea himself states on almost all of his
works. Altogether an excellent release.

On different note, has anyone listened to volume 1 in the Sub
Rosa/Subsonic series(Fred Frith/Marc Ribot)?I am really interested to know
if it is any good.

No Signature

N Vassiliou
York,UK

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:43:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
To: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Subject: naked city
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>From reading various interviews with jz about how he recorded naked
city,  it seems like all of those amazing changes weren't done in 'real
time', but recorded sequentially onto the master tape.  Maybe i was a bit
naive for thinking they were actually playing all of that in one take...
but i'd like to think that humans could actually play like that if they
wanted to.  Alas, i never got to see them as i live in Canada, but could
someone who's seen naked city live tell about it?  Do they manage to play
those insane songs like 'speedfreaks' and the other torture garden songs
live?

I know the subject of bootlegs has been raised...were any 'official' live
recordings of naked city made?  (same goes for other zorn bands,
especially Masada).


-jascha

------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 3 May 1996 09:07:46 +500
From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject:       Crimson vs Downtown
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

Frankly, I like both schools, for different reasons.  Liking only one
thing, I think, is more constrictive than anything a prog band could think
of.  Also, my favorite moments from both schools are when they cross.
For example, when Crimson manages a great improvish jam or the moments
on Soft Machine's Vol. 2 When they are making all kinds of noise.  Also,
I like the Naked City and Painkiller stuff and some of Zorn's compositions
because it's got a little bit of score to it and it's not completely "free".
So, yeah, like all things, I like lots of different stuff, in moderation and
the best parts are the intersections, I think.  The best of both worlds.

So, there's another 2 cents.

---
     Train thy digits in the making of music that you may sing these
      verses at weddings and banquets, and gaze dumbly at the guest
               who hisses when you strum these chords.

Peter Risser                                        [e-mail]
Systems Engineer                                    1-800-888-1140 x17

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:31:47 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Anyone see Zorn in Northampton?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

Anyone see Zorn perform at the Loud Festival in Northampton? What was the
format, and with whom did he jam? I was in NYC that weekend to see some truly
amazing shows (Orchestra Carbon's "Rheo-Umbra" at the Knitting Fact on 4/18,
Gawk and Carbon on 4/20, and the ST-X Xenakis Ensemble on 4/21) Why does it
always happen that good NY players only come to your area when your going
down to THEIR area?  Oh well, no regrets...

Jonathan LaMaster
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:51:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave Keffer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zubi Zuva, PSF, & FW III
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have some thoughts/info  regarding topics of recent discussion in the list.


First off, there was expressed some dissatisfaction with the Zubi Zuva
(a cappella record featuring Tatsuya Yoshida + 2) release on Tzadik. I
picked it up and I think it's a very clever recording.  The record
explores the idea of voice as an instrument and not just as a word-former
in an unusual, novel, and, over the course of the record, diverse way.
There are some hymn-like tunes, some spaz-chants, and some
unintelligible gobbledygook mumbling.  I have found myself listening to
it alot.  <-- just a second opinion on the record.

A note on the PSF label.  PSF is a label without compare.  By far the
most outstanding releases on PSF, IMO, are the Keiji Haino related
projects: Haino solo, Fushitsusha, Lost Aaraaff, Niujumu.
If you are thinking about exploring PSF (they have about 70 records), you
ought to start with the Tokyo Flashback compilations they have.  There
are four volumes to date.  Start with number two.  It has Fushitsusha,
High Rise, Ghost, and others.  All four of these compilations are
incredible, as compilations go.
As for availability, all the PSF are available from forced exposure for
about $18 bucks a pop, that is if you can get them to send you a recent
catalog.  All the Haino-related PSF releases are also available through
Ear/Rational music on the internet.
Lastly, there is an unofficial Keiji Haino web site located at
http://www.cems.umn.edu/~keffer
There are some audio samples there (but you need an mpeg player like
maplay to check them out).

Lastly, Filmworks III (on Toys Factory or evva) has 56 tracks.  the first
12 are Masada, one of which has QUine playing with them and is
fantastic.  There is one track of cartoon cues from "cynical hysterie
hour" or something like that.  THere are about 12 tracks of Zorn/Ribot
duets, which are also spectacular.  THen there are about 30 pieces of
music for a commercial advertising firm, which are a mixed bag of tricks.
(the liner notes are in english).

dave k.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 11:04:19 -0700
From: Stickman <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: naked city
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:
>
> >From reading various interviews with jz about how he recorded naked
> city,  it seems like all of those amazing changes weren't done in 'real
> time', but recorded sequentially onto the master tape.  Maybe i was a bit
> naive for thinking they were actually playing all of that in one take...
> but i'd like to think that humans could actually play like that if they
> wanted to.  Alas, i never got to see them as i live in Canada, but could
> someone who's seen naked city live tell about it?  Do they manage to play
> those insane songs like 'speedfreaks' and the other torture garden songs
> live?
>
> I know the subject of bootlegs has been raised...were any 'official' live
> recordings of naked city made?  (same goes for other zorn bands,
> especially Masada).
>
> -jascha


I'm sure others will also testify to this. I have, shall we say, an
illegal recording of Naked City(please refer to the Taping at the Knit.
thread from a few weeks back on this list, rather than re-discuss it),
and though the recording is non-good, I was amazed that they pulled the
stuff off. I thought it was just improv in some sections, or maybe it
was, and they just went and learned what they played.
     Regardless, recording techniques are vast and extreme. I think that
even if they did multi-track, it was only for clarity, not for
deception, then again, there is that track on Radio(whose title I
forget) where you can actually hear a lose wire in the mixing board or
somewhere in the studio. My guess is that was the best take, and they
were doing it live, & decided to keep it. You know the trend these days
in recording is to not play the song all together, it seems that Masada
was a "live" all together, non edit, non multitrack recording. But I
don't know this for sure.

     I don't know how many of you have used the new digital a-dat
recorders, but you can do some amazing punches, that would be dificult to
pull off with an analog system.  Does Zorn record digital? I know the
Barondown stuff is digital & live( by the way I just got the 3rd
Barondown CD). But I don't know, or think Naked City was digital, and i'm
to lazy to go check the CD's right now.  - STICKMAN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 11:12:00 -0400
From: Alain Potvin <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Masada scores
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I desesperately searching for Masada's scores (parts). If you have some info...

Thanks

A young alto player! (Louis Potvin)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:21:54 BST
From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
To: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
cc: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: naked city
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

> >From reading various interviews with jz about how he recorded naked
> city,  it seems like all of those amazing changes weren't done in 'real
> time', but recorded sequentially onto the master tape.  Maybe i was a bit
> naive for thinking they were actually playing all of that in one take...
> but i'd like to think that humans could actually play like that if they
> wanted to.  Alas, i never got to see them as i live in Canada, but could
> someone who's seen naked city live tell about it?  Do they manage to play
> those insane songs like 'speedfreaks' and the other torture garden songs
> live?
>
> I know the subject of bootlegs has been raised...were any 'official' live
> recordings of naked city made?  (same goes for other zorn bands,
> especially Masada).
>
>
> -jascha



I think Zorn himself(in the Spillane notes)  said that he's not using edits and everything we hear are live musicians. I
am sure i've read this on the Naked City stuff(how else would they play live if they could not play their stuff that way?)

N Vassiliou

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:56:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
To: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
cc: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: naked city
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Yeah, i'd like to think that the songs on the recordings are live, and i
think that's probably true.  It is a bbit vague in the Spillane notes,
though, because he says he doesn't use *tape* edite, ie: he won't take
two pre-rehearsed sections and splice them together, but it did sound
like what he'd do is pre-rehearse each section of a song, and then (to
quote, more or less, from what i remember of the notes) "punch it
directly on to the master tape".  So, this could mean they do one
section, rewind the tape, listen to the song in progress, and get ready
to play the next section when the time comes.

I don't doubt that they could play it all live if they wanted to.  I've
only ever seen zorn play in the context of Masada, but Joey Baron is
without a doubt the most increadible drummer i've ever seen; he could do
the naked city stuff live no problem, and i'm sure all the others could
as well (and have...sniff, i never saw them...).

But in the studio, they might take a different approach...i don't know...

-jascha



On Fri, 3 May 1996, N Vassiliou wrote:

>
> > >From reading various interviews with jz about how he recorded naked
> > city,  it seems like all of those amazing changes weren't done in 'real
> > time', but recorded sequentially onto the master tape.  Maybe i was a bit
> > naive for thinking they were actually playing all of that in one take...
> > but i'd like to think that humans could actually play like that if they
> > wanted to.  Alas, i never got to see them as i live in Canada, but could
> > someone who's seen naked city live tell about it?  Do they manage to play
> > those insane songs like 'speedfreaks' and the other torture garden songs
> > live?
> >
> > I know the subject of bootlegs has been raised...were any 'official' live
> > recordings of naked city made?  (same goes for other zorn bands,
> > especially Masada).
> >
> >
> > -jascha
>
>
>
> I think Zorn himself(in the Spillane notes)  said that he's not using edits and everything we hear are live musicians. I
> am sure i've read this on the Naked City stuff(how else would they play live if they could not play their stuff that way?)
>
> N Vassiliou
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 14:18:09 -0700
From: Stickman <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: re: Crimson vs. Downtown scene
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Perhapse i just know some reallybitter people, but my life has been a lot easier since i've decided to
stop having opinions on how other people should play music and just enjoy
music on it's own terms.>
7.4 cents and counting,
                        -jascha

Well, I obviously have a lot a "free" time today. I should be practising.
But anyway...I've never met anyone with the structured classical vs.
improvised /freedom thing, yet. Though I have spoken with some who don't
recognize any of the "Post-Classsical" or "Neo-Classical" stuff as
important contributions to  creative culture, or even "classical" at all.
I mean, even, Classical radio here in the NYC area doesn't recognize it,
though I don't think we have a full time 24 hour Classical station
anymore (side note-we had one, but now they play alternative/hard rock-
ozzy/pearl jam/soundgarden, etc). You know they play only 200 year old
classical stuff.

     I liked your statement, "enjoy music on its own terms". I owe you 2
cents for that one, and i'm taking it out of the Zorn list fund to give
to you, so now were down to 5.4 cents. Maybe if we can charge 2 cents per
opinion the Zorn list could have enough cash to purchase some of the
import only Zorn releases. I myself could use the triple Painkiller
"Execution Ground". -STICKMAN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:35:13 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Ray Peck)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: more KC
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>

>From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>

>I really like King Crimson (72-74 especially) and I really like John Zorn,
>but for some reason, I think these two would have a hard time playing together.

I agree, however. . .

>On a different note, I was thinking, if what if you could make a wish list of
>who you'd like to see Zorn work with next.  I'm curious.  Or maybe we
>could come up with our dream Cobra lineups.  Anyone have any ideas?

Yeah!  I'd love to see a Bruford/Levin/Gunn/Belew Cobra!  (I don't
think Robert would go for it).  Add Jamie Miur for some real fun.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 14:33:34 -0700
From: Stickman <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: naked city]/actually Masada
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:
>
> >
> The Masada stuff must have been done live, because it sounds too
> increadible to have been pieced together on a multitrack.

I just did some digital recording last week. The Masada stuff was probably live
recordings, though unedited, i'm not sure. The digital punch in is a wonderful tool.
What I especially liked about the Masada shows in NYC last month was that the improv
sections were a lot longer, whereas on the CD they have brief sections. I've always felt
that a band that you think is great, is really great when you see them live and they're
greater( wow-what an awkward thought). And Masada definately meet this.
>
> I missed the Barondown gig at christmas because i arrived in NYC too
> late...that was the one opening act i was really interested in , too.
> How do they sound (tough question, i know).  I didn't realise they
> already had three discs out...which one is best to start with?
>
> -jascha

I like all the Barondown CD's. They all sound somewhat similar since all three contain
the same musical colours(drums,sax,trombone).
1st cd: Tongue in Groove (JMT)
2nd cd:Raised Pleasure Dot(New World Records)
3rd cd:Crackshot (Avant, Disk Union)

      You'd be safe getting any of them. Joey sounds great!-   STICKMAN

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:09:54 +0200 (METDST)
From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
To: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Marc Ribot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

What's the title on the book by William Duckworth which has a interview with
Zorn?
I have "Rootless Cosmopolitans" by Marc Ribot and I think it's pretty good,
but it sound to me like he is able of doing much better. Any opinions on
"Shrek" or "Painted Desert" (by Ikue Mori)? Is "Painted Desert" improvised?

Jonas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 16:48:00 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: naked city
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

They played them even better live! Naked Citys "thrash segments" were a real
hoot as the group would spend more time setting up charts and instruments
than playing the actual songs. Seeing Naked City live was an amazing
experience.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 12:16:36 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
To: Stickman <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Crimson vs. Downtown scene
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>

jascha wrote:
>
> > Perhapse i just know some reallybitter people, but my life has been a lot easier since i've decided to
> stop having opinions on how other people should play music and just enjoy
> music on it's own terms.>
> 7.4 cents and counting,

When I eat a sandwich, I guess is the closest I can be on this "enjoy things on
their own terms".

Concerning music, I know people who do enjoy "music on it's own terms", these are
people who basically don't care about music. Music is just a way to make their
wall paper look less dreary.

Anyway (and specially on a list about Zorn), I find hard to believe such
a statement. Can I turn off the "history switch" when I listen to challenging
music? No. Can I ask my brain to just enjoy and not question when I listen
to music? Sometimes, when I know the songs so well that I don't even know
to play them (like Beatles songs). Unfortunately, when it comes to music
in "progress", I find hard to ask my brain to forget asking questions and
enjoy just the moment :-).

I know that asking too many questions is not good about music, but music is not
only a 100% sensual experience. The brain has something to do with it,
specially with challenging music.

With food or sex, I might follow you :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 18:07:42 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re: Crimson vs. Downtown scene
Message-Id: <9605032207.AA16306@pipe7>

On Fri, May 3, 1996 12.16.36 pm, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
>jascha wrote:
>>
>> > Perhapse i just know some reallybitter people, but my life has been a
lot easier since i've decided to
>> stop having opinions on how other people should play music and just
enjoy
>> music on it's own terms.>
>> 7.4 cents and counting,
>
>When I eat a sandwich, I guess is the closest I can be on this "enjoy
things on
>their own terms".
>
>Concerning music, I know people who do enjoy "music on it's own terms",
these are
>people who basically don't care about music. Music is just a way to make
their
>wall paper look less dreary.
>
>Anyway (and specially on a list about Zorn), I find hard to believe such
>a statement. Can I turn off the "history switch" when I listen to
challenging
>music? No. Can I ask my brain to just enjoy and not question when I listen

>to music? Sometimes, when I know the songs so well that I don't even know
>to play them (like Beatles songs). Unfortunately, when it comes to music
>in "progress", I find hard to ask my brain to forget asking questions and
>enjoy just the moment :-).

thats what rock music is for!  i assume most of you are older than your
teenage years like myself.  my roommate and i were talking the other night
about, for example, the fact that there's a new rage against the machine
record out, and we were  nostalgic for the times when we used to be excited
about music and going to see rock (indie, punk, metal, you name it) shows
and just being totally sent into ecstasy upon hearing it...there wasnt
much, if any critical aspect to it.  like swing music, it just did
something indescribable that you had no choice but to go with it.  does
that make sense?

>I know that asking too many questions is not good about music, but music
is not
>only a 100% sensual experience.

not sober, anyway.  but you're right--i think there's a point at which if
you try to think about music too much, you don't necessarily ruin it but
you do cross a line from the enjoyment level to the critical level.
luckily, most of us are somewhere in between.

>With food or sex, I might follow you :-).

agreed on that one!

so, what are we at, 9.4 ?

chow




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:03:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
To: Stickman <[e-mail]>
cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: naked city
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> in recording is to not play the song all together, it seems that Masada
> was a "live" all together, non edit, non multitrack recording. But I
> don't know this for sure.

The Masada stuff must have been done live, because it sounds too
increadible to have been pieced together on a multitrack.


> pull off with an analog system.  Does Zorn record digital? I know the
> Barondown stuff is digital & live( by the way I just got the 3rd
> Barondown CD). But I don't know, or think Naked City was digital, and i'm

I missed the Barondown gig at christmas because i arrived in NYC too
late...that was the one opening act i was really interested in , too.
How do they sound (tough question, i know).  I didn't realise they
already had three discs out...which one is best to start with?

-jascha

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 08:28:24 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
To: "Yeah-shure,    Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Cc: zorn list <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
Subject: Re: naked city
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>

On Fri, 3 May 1996 08:43:21 -0400 (EDT)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> >From reading various interviews with jz about how he recorded naked

You might have to go back to your articles and read them again :-).

> city,  it seems like all of those amazing changes weren't done in 'real
> time', but recorded sequentially onto the master tape.  Maybe i was a bit
> naive for thinking they were actually playing all of that in one take...
> but i'd like to think that humans could actually play like that if they
> wanted to.  Alas, i never got to see them as i live in Canada, but could
> someone who's seen naked city live tell about it?  Do they manage to play
> those insane songs like 'speedfreaks' and the other torture garden songs
> live?

What you say relates more to the way pieces like SPILLANE, GODARD, were
done (one chunk after another and only Zorn having the global picture).

As far as NC is concerned, what you hear on record is what they used to
play. As you see, life is not as desperate as you thought :-).

> I know the subject of bootlegs has been raised...were any 'official' live
> recordings of naked city made?  (same goes for other zorn bands,
> especially Masada).

There is a live Masada (of bootleg nature) on Jazz Door (Italy).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 11:22:09 -0700
From: Stickman <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Crimson vs Downtown
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Peter Risser wrote:
>
> Frankly, I like both schools, for different reasons.  Liking only one
> thing, I think, is more constrictive than anything a prog band could think
> of.  Also, my favorite moments from both schools are when they cross.
> For example, when Crimson manages a great improvish jam or the moments
> on Soft Machine's Vol. 2 When they are making all kinds of noise.  Also,
> I like the Naked City and Painkiller stuff and some of Zorn's compositions
> because it's got a little bit of score to it and it's not completely "free".
> So, yeah, like all things, I like lots of different stuff, in moderation and
> the best parts are the intersections, I think.  The best of both worlds.
>
> So, there's another 2 cents.


so, all together, if i'm counting correctly, we have 4 cents. cool. You
have good perspective on this issue. What I'm in total absolute rebellion
against is the prog. musicians i've come into contact with that create a
total dichotomy  between the two schools & place a value judgement on the
improv. school as somehow "inferior". And I can bet all of you have met
those people. But, the reason I don't listen to too much prog. rock
anymore is that I haven't heard anything that i've found any listening
pleasure in. The lastest Crimson stuff is well,  YAWN. There are some
good moments, but for me, those moments are few.  But then again, I think
i've just added another 2 cents, so now were up to 6 cents.- STICKMAN

--------------------------------
End of zorn-list-digest Digest V96 Issue #18
********************************************