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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

zorn-list-digest Digest                Volume 96 : Issue 17

Today's Topics:
  Screwed up zorn-list-digest delivery  [ [e-mail] ]
  Film Works III                        [ Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]-c. ]
  PSF records                           [ Alan Gordon <[e-mail]> ]
  RE: Ikue Mori again                   [ [e-mail] ]
  King Crimson and Dream Cobra          [ "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]> ]
  Ruins/Bailey                          [ "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]> ]
  Filmworks III/PSF                     [ [e-mail] ]
  various                               [ plantarm <[e-mail]> ]
  Re: New Jon Rose?                     [ [e-mail] ]
  Re: New Jon Rose?                     [ [e-mail] ]
  ruins                                 [ plantarm <[e-mail]> ]
  Masada scores                         [ Alain Potvin <[e-mail].c ]
  Re: ruins                             [ [e-mail] ]
  Free Improvisation (was: New Jon Ros  [ [e-mail] ]
  Re: ruins                             [ [e-mail] ]
  ruins                                 [ N Vassiliou <[e-mail].u ]
  Re: anybody knows the magazine CARBO  [ john shiurba <[e-mail]> ]
  Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson     [ "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichi ]
  Re: ruins                             [ Alain Potvin <[e-mail].c ]
  Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson     [ [e-mail] ]
  Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson     [ [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer) ]
  Re: various                           [ "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichi ]
  Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson     [ Stickman <[e-mail]> ]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:02:10 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Screwed up zorn-list-digest delivery!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

Digests are still screwed up!

I'm not getting everything!

I'm pissed off since NEW YEARS!


David Beardsley
IMMP & Bink! music.  .  .           [e-mail]  ...   .   .    .
Email for a copy of our catalog of strange beautiful music.  .  . ..
.. .     .    ..   . . . .     . ..         ...            . .. .   .   . ..
                  .  . .

Ah.........................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
..................................................FIX
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:56:00 +0200 (METDST)
From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
To: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Film Works III
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Has anybody heard "Film Works III" (yes, 3)? It's out on Toy's Factory
Records. It features the "Thieves Quartet" stuff, some music for japanese
cartoons (any info greatly appreciated!) and some stuff from commercials.
Maybe Patrice could post the info?

Jonas

BTW Is the liner notes on the Toy's Factory releases in japanese?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:54:06 +0100 (BST)
From: Alan Gordon <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: PSF records
Message-Id: <Pine..3.91.960430114913.19754A-100000@george>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

does anyone know anything about a japanese label called (i think) PSF?
all i know is that their records are in the same rack as the "nani nani"
cd, and have quite strange covers.  they are prohibitively expensive as
are all japanese cds here, so i thought i'd ask before i buy.

thanks,
alan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 08:30:46 PDT
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: RE: Ikue Mori again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Can't help with a discography... Patrice?;-)

But here's the skinny on the two Tzadiks from
last year...

TZ 7201 Ikue Mori: Hex Kitchen
with Catherine Jauniaux, Zeena Parkins, Hahn Rowe,
David Watson, Kato Hideki, John Zorn

TZ 7207 Death Ambient
Ikue Mori, Kato Hideki, Fred Frith

Both highly recommended.

Best,
Steve Smith
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date:          Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:51:36 +500
From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject:       King Crimson and Dream Cobra
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

>  Hello,
>  There is one thing i cannot understand. Why is there no connection (at least,
> i don't know of any) between Robert Fripp and Zorn, Frisell etc.? what is more
> strange (for me)is that there is practically no talk about RF&kc here, and not
> a single word on Zorn etc. on Elephant talk, the crimso list.
> Don't you find it strange? Does everybody here leaves a party when he hears, fo
> r example , 'discipline'(which is, btw my favourite record)? I can't beleive it
> !
> Imagine a Fripp-Frisell Band!!!
> Keep on Hunting for the Snark,
> Marcin Gokieli


I really like King Crimson (72-74 especially) and I really like John Zorn,
but for some reason, I think these two would have a hard time playing together.
I think they might come at music from different angles.

On a different note, I was thinking, if what if you could make a wish list of
who you'd like to see Zorn work with next.  I'm curious.  Or maybe we
could come up with our dream Cobra lineups.  Anyone have any ideas?


---
     Train thy digits in the making of music that you may sing these
      verses at weddings and banquets, and gaze dumbly at the guest
               who hisses when you strum these chords.

Peter Risser                                        [e-mail]
Systems Engineer                                    1-800-888-1140 x17

------------------------------

Date:          Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:55:38 +500
From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject:       Ruins/Bailey
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

I'd just like to add a dissenting opinion.  I thought that it was very
disappointing.  I didn't think Bailey sounded like he was together with the
Ruins at all and the whole thing seemed kind of lost to me.  I am a big fan of
the Ruins and I would suggest Burning Stone, Stonehenge and defintely Early
Works (which features Zorn on some tracks, including the amazing Dry Lungs).
Also, Stonehenge on CD (which I think was out of print for a while) contains
about 12 extra tracks, so it's a good buy.  Also, my favorite listen is a 7" of
short stuff (including Sac, an excellent song) that, along with Early Works, is
from Bloody Butterfly.  The 7" is also fully scored, so you can read along.
Super!

---
     Train thy digits in the making of music that you may sing these
      verses at weddings and banquets, and gaze dumbly at the guest
               who hisses when you strum these chords.

Peter Risser                                        [e-mail]
Systems Engineer                                    1-800-888-1140 x17

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:54:29 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Filmworks III/PSF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

I picked up "Filmworks II" on Toys Factory quite some time ago, and am hoping
that the same store will carry the "Filmworks III" that was mentioned.  I
will of course let you know if I find it...
PSF records is a pretty cool japanese label, the music presented by it runs
the gamut from stoned out hippy psych rock to free jazz and all points in
between.  I wouldn't recommend just grabbing whatever PSF title is within
reach and buying it, as I doubt that many of us here have tastes as broad as
the types of music that they present.  Tatsuya Yoshida's Musica Transonic
trio (which falls into the stoned out hippy psych rock category) has a CD on
PSF, and High Rise (one member of which is also in Musica Transonic) have a
few.  Other notable PSF releases are those by Mikami Kan and Toho Sara...
other than that, I have little exposure to the label's other works.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:55:30 -0500 (EST)
From: plantarm <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: various
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

hey y'all.  how can i contact tzadik for ordering purposes?  i am
now seriously frothing over some ruins cd's, but wouldn'tcha know it,
they don't exist anywhere within 100 miles of here.... i have phone,
e-mail (obviously), netscape, and lots of paper and envelopes, just
tell me how!

eric M.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:31:56 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: New Jon Rose?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

In a message dated 96-04-30 14:31:13 EDT, [e-mail] (simon)
write:

>Hmm.. Does anyone, like me, think that Jon Rose is totally pretentious? I
saw
>him playing with Chadbourne and Chris Cutler in Berlin and I felt he ruined
>it
>with his clever toys (toy wind up violins) and general 'artiness' ; a
>distinct
>lack of improvisational savoire faire and musical inspiration..

I have found some groups of improvisors who don't do it the way we're used to
seeing it done.  Most of the free improvisors I've heard, seen and played
with are descended from the Baily/Parker and then Frith/Zorn school.  I've
also been exposed to improvisors who have no idea what has come before them.
 Somehow they figured it was o.k. to bang on pots and pans, play a guitar
with a tape measure, play sax mouthpieces, etc.  There is a group here in
Colorado called The Miracle who are a bunch of hippies and jazz musicians who
are very theatrical and very noisy.  A complete lack of sophistication and
"savoir faire".  And yet, they're a gas!  I've seen other people, too, from
different parts of the US who are just wailing and fun.

Now, these people are very un-pretentious and I get the impression that you
feel Jon Rose is pretentious.  No arguement from me, as I've never seen him
perform. Just my two cents worth.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:39:25 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: New Jon Rose?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

In a message dated 96-04-30 14:31:13 EDT, [e-mail] (simon)
write:

>Hmm.. Does anyone, like me, think that Jon Rose is totally pretentious? I
saw
>him playing with Chadbourne and Chris Cutler in Berlin and I felt he ruined
>it
>with his clever toys (toy wind up violins) and general 'artiness' ; a
>distinct
>lack of improvisational savoire faire and musical inspiration..

I have found some groups of improvisors who don't do it the way we're used to
seeing it done.  Most of the free improvisors I've heard, seen and played
with are descended from the Baily/Parker and then Frith/Zorn school.  I've
also been exposed to improvisors who have no idea what has come before them.
 Somehow they figured it was o.k. to bang on pots and pans, play a guitar
with a tape measure, play sax mouthpieces, etc.  There is a group here in
Colorado called The Miracle who are a bunch of hippies and jazz musicians who
are very theatrical and very noisy.  A complete lack of sophistication and
"savoir faire".  And yet, they're a gas!  I've seen other people, too, from
different parts of the US who are just wailing and fun.

Now, these people are very un-pretentious and I get the impression that you
feel Jon Rose is pretentious.  No arguement from me, as I've never seen him
perform. Just my two cents worth.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:06:27 -0500 (EST)
From: plantarm <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: ruins
Message-id: <[e-mail]>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

a question again: i've found a mail order source for ruins cd's.  which
would be a better purchase, "burning stone" or "hyderomastgroningem"?
i've read a quite favorable review of the latter in alternative press,
a magazine i trust at least moderately...

eric M.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:55:20 -0400
From: Alain Potvin <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Masada scores
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I desesperately searching for Masada's scores (parts). If you have some info...

Thanks

A young alto player! (Louis Potvin)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:57:55 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ruins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

"Burning Stone" is the ultimate Ruins recording... nothing else that they
have attempted before or since has captured the spark which existed through
out the "Burning Stone" sessions.  Keep in mind, though, that every Ruins
recording is worth three times its weight in gold (and then some)... "Burning
Stone" just happens to be their finest hour (as of yet).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:18:12 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Free Improvisation (was: New Jon Rose?)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

In a message dated 96-04-30 22:07:02 EDT, [e-mail] (plantarm)
wrote:

>about this talentless improvising thing: this is actually not a
>phenomenon without historical precedent.  this is the Cage generation
>finally getting their doctorates and getting settled into colleges,
>where they teach the young and impressionable to screw around freely
>in "new music ensembles", even if they can't play a lick on anything.
>how do i know this?  because i'm a college senior now, and our just
>ex-music chair was a middle aged Cage freak who started a new music
>ensemble that i was in.  it's very joe populism stuff: anyone can and
>should be able to play if they want.  it was a fucking blast every time
>we got together, whether doing pieces or just screwing off; and i
>learned a lot about how to improvise, just by listening to other people
>while i played every friday afternoon.  we had our theatrical moments,
>too.  i wrote a piece for the group called "thor"; in a concert
>performance, we improvised an "ending" of putting away our instruments
>and cleaning up the stage while the music tapered off to one lonely
>guy, wailing on the dijeridoo.  i'd recommend to anyone that whether
>they can "play" or not, they get a group together and improvise as
>best they can.  it's eddicational and stuff
>
>eric M.

I'm totally with you on this.  There is a large, amorphous group of
improvisors in the Denver/Boulder area.  We started playing together in the
mid-80's, especially after saxophonist Jack Wright moved here.  At any of our
sessions, anyone is invited to play.  We've had everything from "serious
musicians" who couldn't loosen up to non-musicians who wouldn't shut up.  The
one thing that always made a session great was the level of communication
that could develop between players.  When there are good listeners present,
the connection between players is on a level unlike any I've ever experienced
anywhere else.  We strive to create a safe environment where musicians aren't
judged on their level of "chops", but on how well they listen.  Knowing when
not to play is as, if not more important than knowing what, when or how to
play.
We've done performances in shopping malls, in coffee houses, under freeway
overpasses and in concert halls. We've jammed with famous musicians,
non-musicians, dancers, film-makers and poets.  The group membership is never
the same and consists of anywhere fro three to 25 people.  Almost everyone
does other things musically and we all have very different tastes in music,
but when we play together we have tons of fun. We start to have a hard time
finding where the music ends and the "non-music" begins. These experiences
have opened my mind up to possibilities in music that only Cage has been able
to explain or demonstrate.
I'm glad to hear that you and your school mates have had similar experiences.

Barry Gilbert
Boulder, CO

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:29:53 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ruins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

"Burning Stone" is the move. Tzadik title very good but not amazing.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 17:40:58 BST
From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject:  ruins
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Can somebody give me a brief description of the Ruins?I really don't know what to expect.

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 13:23:06 +0000
From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
To: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
CC: zorn-list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: anybody knows the magazine CARBON 14?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>         I just got a copy of the magazine CARBON 14 (issue #7, with an
> interview of Elliott Sharp and a 7" with Wayne Horvitz, Zeena Parkins,
> William Hooker, etc). Two questions:
>
>         1/ when was this issue released?
>         2/ who else has appeared in the previous issues/7" (I also
>            have the issue #4)?


I have their address as:
Carbon 14
PO Box 29247
Philadelphia PA 19125

Eskimo was featured in Issue 4, which came out last summer. That would
make issue #7 about Jan/96 since it's bi-monthly.

shiurba

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 12:42:47 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
To: Marcin Gokieli <[e-mail]>
Cc: Zorn List <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 29 Apr 96 19:47:35 CET  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>  There is one thing i cannot understand. Why is there no connection (at least,
> i don't know of any) between Robert Fripp and Zorn, Frisell etc.? what is more
> strange (for me)is that there is practically no talk about RF&kc here, and not
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why should it be any? Two completely different kinds of music for two (mainly)
different kinds of audiences.

Is Fripp ever mentioned on lists/threads about Incus/Bailey/Parker? No, and
they are all British and live in the same town :-). I think it is exactly
the same with the NY downtown scene. Fripp music just does not fit at all
in the genre.

> a single word on Zorn etc. on Elephant talk, the crimso list.
> Don't you find it strange? Does everybody here leaves a party when he hears, fo
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's the opposite that would surprise me.

> r example , 'discipline'(which is, btw my favourite record)? I can't beleive it
> !
> Imagine a Fripp-Frisell Band!!!
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fripp-Frisell? Yes, I can imagine that.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 20:58:07 -0400
From: Alain Potvin <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ruins
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 21:06 30/04/96 -0500, you wrote:
>a question again: i've found a mail order source for ruins cd's.  which
>would be a better purchase, "burning stone" or "hyderomastgroningem"?
>i've read a quite favorable review of the latter in alternative press,
>a magazine i trust at least moderately...

I just heard Derek (Bailey) and the Ruins (tzadik). Like many improv CD's
some moments are great and some are boring...
>
>alain
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 00:22:54 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

In a message dated 96-05-01 12:05:12 EDT, you write:

> There is one thing i cannot understand. Why is there no connection (at
>least,
>i don't know of any) between Robert Fripp and Zorn, Frisell etc.?

I don't consider the two musical styles to be very similar, but your question
reminds me of a weird thing that happened to me a few years ago.  On a visit
to NYC in the early 80's, I stopped into Lunch For Your Ears, a record shop
where, I believe, Zorn once worked. I asked the owner, Manny, for whatever
Zorn records he had.  The store was an absolute pig-stye, records scattered
everywhere, in no particular order.  It was actually a coincidence that he
was there because, he told me, he was having medical problems and his store's
schedule was fairly hit and miss.  He pointed me to some excellent recordings
and insisted I buy a few things I had never heard before, like Musci and
Venosta, Annette Peacock, Carbon, et.al.  He was trying to get me out of the
store quickly so he could close back up again when another guy came into the
store (I later learned he was a well-known music critic for the Village Voice
or Musician or something).  Manny started talking to him about King Crimson
(their 'reunion' records had just come out) and how amazing Fripp is.  He
told this other guy and me that he had a concert video tape of Fripp and that
we would have to watch it.  He pulled up two stools, sat us down on them,
turned off the lights and started the tape.  Just after it started playing,
Manny told us that he'd be back in a few minutes, that we should keep an eye
on the store and watch the whole concert. We sat there in the dark afraid to
leave and captivated the whole scene and the video tape.  Well, yes the
concert was amazing, but the entire experience is what is burned into my
memory.  I walked away with about $200 worth of records and CD's, some of
which have become my all-time favorites.

I know this has nothing to do with your original question, but it brought
back a weird memory that I thought you might appreciate.

Barry Gilbert
Boulder, CO

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:06:22 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson
Message-Id: <v02140b00adadff3962a4@[204.242.24.99]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:22 PM 5/1/96, [e-mail] wrote:

>I don't consider the two musical styles to be very similar, but your question
>reminds me of a weird thing that happened to me a few years ago.  On a visit
>to NYC in the early 80's, I stopped into Lunch For Your Ears, a record shop
>where, I believe, Zorn once worked. I asked the owner, Manny, for whatever

Had to be far later than that.  In the early 80s, Manny ran a store inside
of Soho Comix, and in the mid 80s, inside of Rocks In Your Head.

>Zorn records he had.  The store was an absolute pig-stye, records scattered
>everywhere, in no particular order.  It was actually a coincidence that he
>was there because, he told me, he was having medical problems and his store's
>schedule was fairly hit and miss.

This was early 90s.

Zorn gave a "thank you" to Manny on the cover of the first Naked City Cd.


Jeff
[e-mail]
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 17:37:53 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
To: plantarm <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: various
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>

On Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:55:30 -0500 (EST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> hey y'all.  how can i contact tzadik for ordering purposes?  i am
> now seriously frothing over some ruins cd's, but wouldn'tcha know it,
> they don't exist anywhere within 100 miles of here.... i have phone,
> e-mail (obviously), netscape, and lots of paper and envelopes, just
> tell me how!

You cannot contact Tzadik directly. There are three mail order distributor:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        WAYSIDE MUSIC
        P.O. Box 8427
        Silver Spring, MD 20907-8427
        Tel: [phone] (new release info (recording))
        Fax: [phone]
        e-mail: [e-mail]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Forced Exposure
        PO Box 9102
        Waltham, MA 02254-9102
        Tel: [phone] (To reach FE and specifically Jimmy Johnson)
        Fax: [phone].

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Downtown Music Gallery
        211 East 5th Street
        New York, N.Y. 10003
        Tel: [phone]
        Fax: [phone]
        e-mail: [e-mail]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patrice.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 11:55:09 -0700
From: Stickman <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Downtown scene & King Crimson
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Mon, 29 Apr 96 19:47:35 CET  [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >  Hello,
> >  There is one thing i cannot understand. Why is there no connection (at least,
> > i don't know of any) between Robert Fripp and Zorn, Frisell etc.? what is more
> > strange (for me)is that there is practically no talk about RF&kc here, and not
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Why should it be any? Two completely different kinds of music for two (mainly)
> different kinds of audiences.
>
> Is Fripp ever mentioned on lists/threads about Incus/Bailey/Parker? No, and
> they are all British and live in the same town :-). I think it is exactly
> the same with the NY downtown scene. Fripp music just does not fit at all
> in the genre.
>
> > a single word on Zorn etc. on Elephant talk, the crimso list.
> > Don't you find it strange? Does everybody here leaves a party when he hears, fo
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> That's the opposite that would surprise me.
>
> > r example , 'discipline'(which is, btw my favourite record)? I can't beleive it
> > !
> > Imagine a Fripp-Frisell Band!!!
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Fripp-Frisell? Yes, I can imagine that.
>
>         Patrice.


Hi- just wanted to add my biased two cents. I was an avid
Fripp/Crimson/Yes/Bruford/etc & all prog. rock fan for many years. I've
ammassed quite a monsterous collection over the years- all of which
collects dust now. You see, what happened to me was that I based my
opinion on the worth of music in its ability to be pre-programmed
"complex" (ie-Crimson post 1980, Yes "Close to the Edge" or "sound
chaser") or in a musician's ability to have incredible chops(Bruford,
Fripp).
      Well, anyway, i'm somewhat of a musician myself(guess what I play,
duh), and I thank John Zorn from setting me free from thinking of music
in the way stated above. Nothing bores me more now than a prog. rock
band. When I started listening to Zorn I realized that my way of
aproaching music was so constrictive, I remember hearing the 1st Naked
City CD Thinking, "these guys are great players", and then halfway
through the CD I heard bits of "free-jazz" and "thrash"...and I felt like
"what's going on???" Since then, i've sought every Zorn/downtown CD I can
find. The Downtown/zorn stuff is huge & vast, dare I say, an open system
for those of you with degrees in philosophy. Its freedom for someone
trapped by prog. rock.
      I auditioned for a band last year that were prog. rock, but didn't
tell me, they were just so excited about having a stick player in their
little world(you know the Tony Levin trip). I said, "what are your
influences?" they:" Oh, lots of Jazz, rock, a focus on weird improv,
diff. time signatures. we're indescribable." Well, needless to say, they
were a didactic prog rock band. I brought a copy of some Naked City &
Painkiller, & Last Exit. They were like, "We don't like that stuff
because anything goes". I realized, they were playing with what they
thought was a large spectrum, when in fact they had created huge walls
around their ability as players.

      So anyway, I don't think the Crimso & Zorn world will meet any time
soon, though I do realize that there were a lot of elements to Fripp that
would classify as "downtown". I remember Fripp living in NYC and doing
all those little concerts of completely improved "Frippertronics",
Starless & Bible Black (side 2) still smokes. In fact those Crimso
years(72-75) were wonderful for imrovised rock, and i don't think they
ever surpassed them.

     So anyway, I hope I haven't pissed anybody off. Remember its just my
2 cents, & like i'm not hurting anybody by thinking these thoughts, i
think.   -Jim

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End of zorn-list-digest Digest V96 Issue #17
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