ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/zorn-list.9611

Internet Message Format | 1996-11-30 | 366KB

From: [e-mail] (Sean Terwilliger )
Subject: Hear No Evil
Date: 01 Nov 1996 17:33:54 -0800

Hey,

A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No
Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to
anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work).
This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands.

-Sean

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hear No Evil
Date: 01 Nov 1996 21:25:30 -0800

At 05:33 PM 11/1/96 -0800, Sean Terwilliger wrote:
>Hey,
>
>A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No
>Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to
>anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work).
>This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands.

This is an amazing release.  I might point out that it is one of Bill's
favorites.  And Nicky Skopelitis, who plays guitar on it, told me that he
thought it was the best thing he ever played on.  So skip Sean's "imho"
qualification, this is definitely worth buying.

Also, _Outlands_ is a fascinating disc, with Ronald Shannon Jackson on
drums, Aiyb Dieng on African percussion, a Korean percussion group, Bill and
Shankar on electric violin.  Somewhat frenetic (might appeal more to Zorn fans.)

Both of these are at this time not scheduled for re-release, so pick them up.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sean Terwilliger )
Subject: Hear No Evil
Date: 01 Nov 1996 17:33:54 -0800

Hey,

A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No
Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to
anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work).
This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands.

-Sean

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Masada
Date: 02 Nov 1996 15:30:35 -0800

Does anyone know if and when Masada is coming to Los Angeles? Thanks.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Paul Jacobson)
Subject: Re: Hear No Evil
Date: 03 Nov 1996 11:14:39 +1100

Jeff Spirer wrote:

> Also, _Outlands_ is a fascinating disc, with Ronald Shannon Jackson on
> drums, Aiyb Dieng on African percussion, a Korean percussion group, Bill and
> Shankar on electric violin.  Somewhat frenetic (might appeal more to Zorn
>fans.)
>
> Both of these are at this time not scheduled for re-release, so pick them up.

I'd definitely second Jeff recomendation on _Outlands_
Online store Ponk Records had a good stock of _Into The Outlands_ at a
reasonable price and from memory also had copies of _Hear No Evil_
(possibly on vinyl only) about two months ago. They also stocked a few
other items that would be of interest to zorn-listers.

They can be found at :

http://www.ice.net/~ponk/index.htm

I've had excellent service from them in the past.

Peace

Paul



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: bootleg??
Date: 02 Nov 1996 22:13:21 -0800 (PST)

Greetings all in Zornland,
Is anyone who is attending the Nov. 15th Masada show planning on
preserving the night on some sort of recorded medium? (tape, video
camera...)  If you are going to try, I would love to get a copy.  I'm
going to be there too, but alas, no video camera, or tape recorder.
Josh Martin






P.S. John ten Bosch is a great guy!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Masada in Philly
Date: 03 Nov 1996 23:14:04 -0500

Just got back from the Masada concert in Philadelphia.  It was strange for me
seeing them in this context; it was really a "concert".  6 or 700 people in
attendance, a fairly big auditorium, nice wide stage, bright lights on them,
etc.   This show was part of the "InterGalactic Jewish Music Festival".

It was the regular version of Masada, with Dave Douglas, Joey, and I dont
know who the bassist was, it wasn't Greg Cohen like the program said.  Zorn
always announces the names when he's ten feet away from a microphone, and the
audience is applauding.   Whoever he was, he was incredible.  I also noticed
in the program, the "selected discography" which listed records such as Alef,
Beit, Gimel, Kristallnacht, Zohar, etc., and Masada Live- Jazz Door (Italy).
  Does John recommend this cd??  You would think he had a little input in the
choosing of the selected discography for the program.

John also seems to be going for a new look, he hasn't had a haircut in a long
time.  Give him a few more months, he'll be sporting a ponytail.

[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: cosmojizmatism
Date: 04 Nov 1996 10:11:11 -0500 (EST)

Does anybody know anything about the workshop thing that's supposed to
happen at noon at the Burlington Masada show on the 19th? How does that
usually work? Do they give playing tips? Recitals of Samuel Beckett's
Molloy? Lectures on international socialism? If anybody has a clue,
please share it with me, I want to know if I should bring my horn.
thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew J. Wilson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hear No Evil
Date: 04 Nov 1996 13:04:13 -0500

> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:33:54 -0800
> From: Sean Terwilliger  <[e-mail]>
>
> Hey,
>
> A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No
> Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to
> anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work).
> This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands.
>
> -Sean

Note that this CD is out of print so get it while you can.

Andrew

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Landon Thorpe)
Subject: Re: Hear No Evil
Date: 04 Nov 1996 18:52:56 -0500

>> Hey,
>>
>> A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No
>> Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs).
                            ^^^^^^^^
What are these?

Thanks,

Landon Thorpe



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: test
Date: 05 Nov 1996 20:09:35 PST

this is only a test.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: test
Date: 06 Nov 1996 08:55:55 -0500 (EST)


YOU FAIL!
On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

> this is only a test.....
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: test
Date: 06 Nov 1996 10:12:11 -0800 (PST)

a test of the emergency broadcasting system.  In the event that this had
been a real emergency, ....


On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

> this is only a test.....
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Denman Maroney)
Subject: Liquid Audio Debuts Premier Music On Demand Solution for the Internet
Date: 06 Nov 1996 21:54:26 GMT

Thought you all would be interested in the following:

In clari.biz.industry.media.entertainment.releases, [e-mail]
(Liquid Audio) wrote:

>
>   REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 4, 1996--Liquid
>Audio today introduced a suite of software products that provides
>the first-ever end-to-end solution for delivering and publishing
>high-quality music over the Internet.  This ground-breaking
>technology gives music professionals the mastering tools needed to
>optimize music content for the Internet, and provides consumers with
>a media-rich browsing environment for sampling and purchasing music.
>The products will debut on November 8th at the Audio Engineering
>Society Convention in Los Angeles, and on the Internet at
>www.liquidaudio.com and www.musicblvd.com.
>   "Liquid Audio's objective is to provide a means for music commerce
>on the Internet that at once addresses the interests of the consumer,
>the artist, and the music industry -- specifically, sound quality,
>copyright protection, and secure management and tracking of online
>purchases," stated Gerry Kearby, co-founder and CEO of Liquid Audio.
>"Until now, these issues have been disregarded, leaving the massive
>potential of the Internet as a vehicle for music publishing and
>distribution virtually untapped.  Our work with both Dolby Labs and
>our partners in the music industry has resulted in a solution that
>satisfies all of the interested parties, especially the music fans."
>   Liquid Audio's technology represents a major shift in the way music
>is heard, sold, and delivered.  The free Liquid MusicPlayer enables
>users to stream near CD-quality music over the Internet, while
>viewing lyrics, artwork, and liner notes.  Future upgrades, to be
>released in Q1 '97, will allow the online consumer to purchase the
>music and print it directly to an audio cassette or recordable CD,
>allowing for high quality playback on any standard cassette or CD
>player.
>   Liquid Audio has already gained broad support from key proponents of
>the pro audio, music, and computer industries.  Ties with Dolby,
>Intel, online service providers N2K, major recording artists such as
>Sammy Hagar, and leading advanced software financier Hummer Winblad
>Venture Partners are a testament to the significant impact Liquid
>Audio's technology will have on digital music commerce.  According to
>Ann Winblad of Hummer Winblad, "The Internet has clearly achieved
>critical mass as a new medium.  Liquid Audio provides a missing piece
>of ground-breaking technology and the products to move the music
>experience into the digital age."
>   Utilizing an exclusive, enhanced version of Dolby Lab's proven audio
>compression technology to guarantee delivery of the best sound, the
>Liquid Audio software suite consists of three components:  mastering
>tools for content creation, playback tools for sampling, purchasing
>and publishing, and audio delivery tools to complete the
>client/server architecture.  The Liquid MusicPlayer is available as
>of November 8th for free download on the Internet, with upgrades to
>be available in Q1 '97.  Mastering and server tools will be available
>later this year.
>

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Mills <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shankar
Date: 06 Nov 1996 16:22:40 -0700

Hi yer

Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release?
I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label.

Eat yerself fitter

Greg




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: slawlor <[e-mail]>
Subject: forbidden fruit question
Date: 06 Nov 1996 19:27:20 -0500 (EST)

I was listen to forbidden fruit from the spilain cd and I was wondering
if anyone could tell me what those loud noises are in parts of the song
when he's playing around with the violins?  The noises sound
likesomething is being broken, maybe a violin or something.  I don't know
how else to describe thos strange sounds in this piece.
Also, wouldn't this composition provide for an interesting study in a
music theory or musicology course?


scott K. Lawlor
3358 Prange Dr.
Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223
Phone, 330-922-4895
http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Shankar
Date: 06 Nov 1996 17:25:32 -0800 (PST)

i don't know


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter T. Chen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: forbidden fruit question
Date: 06 Nov 1996 18:15:14 -0800

>I was listen to forbidden fruit from the spilain cd and I was wondering
>if anyone could tell me what those loud noises are in parts of the song
>when he's playing around with the violins?  The noises sound
>likesomething is being broken, maybe a violin or something.

This may be a stretch but I believe what you are referring to are the
"pops" and "hits" that are being created by Christian Marclay on the
Turntables. Part of the technique described for the piece is for Marclay to
literally hit and scratch the turntable much like Rap DJ's do. And they
amplified it quite a bit.  Also, the recordings selected for turntable were
all string pieces so not all the string sounds you hear are Kronos playing.

>  I don't know
>how else to describe thos strange sounds in this piece.
>Also, wouldn't this composition provide for an interesting study in a
>music theory or musicology course?

>scott K. Lawlor
>3358 Prange Dr.
>Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223
[...]

It has. Down the street from you there in NE Ohio, Claudia MacDonald has
been including Spillane as one part of the curriculum for study in her 20th
Century Music course at the Oberlin Conservatory of Music. Though the only
thing considered particularily remarkable about the recording are JZ's
rapid time/style changes. I'm sure there's a few other schools...

-Pete

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
" P E T E R  T.  C H E N             p t c h e n @ s t a n f o r d . e d u "
" Biological Sciences / University Libraries             Phone: [phone] "
" Stanford University                                      FAX: [phone] "
" ________________________            http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~prak
"    "                              now... p s y c h e d e l i c i
z e d ! "
"````````````````````````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: introduction.....
Date: 06 Nov 1996 18:39:33 PST

hello everyone,

I appologize for the test message, I was having problems with my emailer,
etc etc....won't happen again.

anyway, my name is Geoff Gersh, i'm 23, a musican in the NY area, Yonkers
to be exact.  I was on this list a while ago but lost access when i
graduated from school, didn't have email for a while.

I had posted this message a while back, anyone interested in trading
sheet music/recordings in exchange for Masada charts let me know, i have
about 13-15 of them.

I haven't checked out Masada in over a year! I'm looking forward to the
Knitting Factory gigs in December......

I guess thats it for now....talk to everyone soon.....

Geoff Gersh

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Frith about Zorn
Date: 06 Nov 1996 22:46:29 -0500 (EST)


I've been transcribing and translating, from the French, Fred Frith's long
comments about Zorn, Zorn's music and their collaboration, on the
occasion of an extraordinary duo concert by both in Oct. 8, 1988.

My question is: does anybody in the list by any chance know about other
declarations, statements, interviews, or articles about Zorn, by Frith or
by other musicians who played with him or not ? I know David Bailey's
chapter in his "Musical Improvision" (only on the latest edition, by
DaCappo) but I would be interested about references of other
similar writings by musicians.

In the tape I have, Frith's comments about Zorn constitute a very
interesting and in depth elaboration about his music, its meanings and its
techniques. Frith speaks also about his own compositions and how he came
to New York and met Zorn. His comments occupy about one third of their 90
minutes concert. I will be glad to E-mail copies of the translation to
those interested as soon as I finish it. Requests and eventual
responses to my question can be sent to my E-mail address, above,

With thanks,

Jose


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Human Feel3?
Date: 07 Nov 1996 10:13:29 EDT

Alright... somebody please say something more about the new Human Feel album.
It's torturous just to hear that, "oh, it's they're best yet..." blah blah
blah.  I've asked for it at Amoeba (SF, CA) and it wasn't in the last time I
checked.  Track listing, catalog #, label, personnel (who is this singer i've
been hearing about?) and all that schmazz.  Thanks.
BTW, can someone tape Masada4 for me?  (just kiddin').

Leon

MASADA in San Francisco.  Yes!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: review: Tim Berne/Jon Raskin Quartet in SF
Date: 07 Nov 1996 10:51:59 EDT

Tim Berne - alto & baritone sax
Jon Raskin - alto, baritone and sopranino sax
Michael Formanek - bass (I don't think I spelled his name right)
Elliott Kavee - percussion

@ Venue 9 Wednesday October 30th

Jon Raskin is of the ROVA Sax Quartet.  This show was in a series billed as
'ROVA doing their own ensembles'.
Elliott Kavee is one of the Bay Area's most widely utilized improvising
percussionist, probably most well known for his playing in the Clubfoot
Orchestra

-- I believe most of the tunes were Berne tunes since they are closely related
to the recent Bloodcount compositions with it's long themes and extended
improvisation through drones and long sustained tones.  Many of the pieces
seemed to be written for paired bari's and altos.  The saxes sounded great
together, bringing out nice overtones eccentuated by the beautifully written
music.  Raskin's sound resembles a flailing firehose.  Lots of dips, sudden
bends, twists and turns all very dynamically specific.  It wasn't screeches,
pops and baring horns all around but only when it was right on and definitely
kept to a minimum.  Berne sounded great (my first time live) and was playing
pretty quietly in that beautiful melodic way often exploring tones sustained
rather than pitches all over the place.  Michael Formanek was an animal and
there were times when he 'cut out' which worked extremely well leaving the
dialogue between saxes and drums to fly freely.  Elliott Kavee is one of my
favorite drummers as of late.  He is sensitive and can play one rhythm to ashes
before moving on.  They had me sitting on the edge of my seat at times
wondering how they were going to pull it back together.  Kavee took the rhythms
so far out while Berne and Raskin streamed through it, loosely lacing it up and
holding it all together.  Awesome.
I really wished I had the capabilities to record it.  Anyone else go?  What did
you think?

Other shows in this series were: Bruce Ackley's Actual Size, Steve Adams/Ken
Filiano Quartet (featuring Vinny Golia and Billy Mintz) and Larry Och's What We
Live.

* ROVA  at the end of this month.
* Masada next week

Leon

btw, anyone checked out Braxton's Tri-Centric Foundation performances in nyc?
I want to know what it's like.  Reviews would be nice...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Shankar
Date: 07 Nov 1996 11:05:56 -0800

Greg Mills wrote:
>
> Hi yer
>
> Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release?
> I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label.
>
> Eat yerself fitter
>
> GregYeah, It made CD on Parking Pumpkin Records. Don't know if it's still
available.

-Sean



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Shankar
Date: 07 Nov 1996 16:23:52 -0500 (EST)

> Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release?
> I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label.

Is this Shankar the double-headed ten-stringed electric violin shankar we
all know and love?  He's on Zappa's label?  Wierd...

-jascha


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Walsh <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: masada // Dresser
Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:16:00 PST


>>From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n"
>><[e-mail]>
>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT)
>>Subject: masada // Dresser
>>
>>Does anyone know how long Zorn is planning to keep doing his Masada
>>project?  I'm wondering if maybe he'll suddenly stop as he did with
Naked
>>City.  Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to
>>Seatle?  Would they have continued otherwise?

I read in an interview with John Zorn quite a few years ago in a local
Philly newspaper that he dissolved Naked City because he felt that the
band had already accomplished everything that it could and had nowhere
else to go musically. So, I would guess that Horvitz really had nothing
to do with it. Unfortunately, I don't know about Masada's future, but I
would assume that he will eventually go in a different direction, much
like he's done his career.

Caught Masada in Philly last Sunday, a fantastic show. A suprisingly
larger venue than I would have expected and even more suprisingly sold
out. Hopefully Zorn won't wait so many years to come back.

Matt Walsh
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hear No Evil
Date: 07 Nov 1996 19:19:25 -0800

Sorry, The store is all out of these Cd's. (And the SXL as well). I asked
them to try to get more and notify me if they do. If I'll buy them and
then post!

-Sean


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Shankar
Date: 07 Nov 1996 16:21:41 -0800 (PST)

Another great album Shankar is on is Peter Gabriel's "Passion".  (Last
temptation of christ soundtrack)  if you don't have it yet, you need it soon.


On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Sean Terwilliger wrote:

> Greg Mills wrote:
> >
> > Hi yer
> >
> > Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release?
> > I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label.
> >
> > Eat yerself fitter
> >
> > GregYeah, It made CD on Parking Pumpkin Records. Don't know if it's still
> available.
>
> -Sean
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: masada // Dresser
Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:04:11 -0800


On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT)  "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know how long Zorn is planning to keep doing his Masada
> project?  I'm wondering if maybe he'll suddenly stop as he did with Naked

Don't know (does Zorn even know?), but DIW plans to go up to number 10!!!

Tzadik might wait a little bit before releasing the LIVE IN JERUSALEM and the
LIVE AT MOGADOR (in order to avoid flooding the market).

> City.  Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to
> Seatle?  Would they have continued otherwise?

Wayne moved to Seattle late '89, at the same time as Bill Frisell (they are
in fact neighbors!). As you know, most of Naked City activity is posterior
to these moves... Hence: no connexion between the moves and the band stopping
any activity.

    Patrice (back from 8 weeks of sabbatical in France!!!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Douglas/Bennink
Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:05:50 -0800


On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:29:04 -0300  James Hale wrote:
>
> The word from Songlines boss Tony Reif is that this should be out in
> November. The holdup has been finding a new distributor for the label.

I was in NY between October 15 and 25 and I am pretty sure that I
saw it. Could have I been victim of an optical illusion?

    Patrice (I really wonder if I really saw it :-).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Carlson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Shankar
Date: 07 Nov 1996 21:24:53 -0600 (CST)


>> GregYeah, It made CD on Parking Pumpkin Records. Don't know if it's still
>available.
>
>-Sean
>

It's Barking Pumpkin.  I believe they can be contacted at 818-PUMPKIN or you
can email them at <[e-mail]>

Brian

Learn as if to live forever; live as if to die tomorrow - unknown


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Walsh <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: masada // Dresser
Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:16:00 PST


>>From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n"
>><[e-mail]>
>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT)
>>Subject: masada // Dresser
>>
>>Does anyone know how long Zorn is planning to keep doing his Masada
>>project?  I'm wondering if maybe he'll suddenly stop as he did with
Naked
>>City.  Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to
>>Seatle?  Would they have continued otherwise?

I read in an interview with John Zorn quite a few years ago in a local
Philly newspaper that he dissolved Naked City because he felt that the
band had already accomplished everything that it could and had nowhere
else to go musically. So, I would guess that Horvitz really had nothing
to do with it. Unfortunately, I don't know about Masada's future, but I
would assume that he will eventually go in a different direction, much
like he's done his career.

Caught Masada in Philly last Sunday, a fantastic show. A suprisingly
larger venue than I would have expected and even more suprisingly sold
out. Hopefully Zorn won't wait so many years to come back.

Matt Walsh
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bailey jungle album
Date: 07 Nov 1996 23:09:22 -0500

Does anybody know where the Derek Bailey jungle album can be found?  I
thought i saw it listed on the Forced Exposure website but it's not there
anymore.  What's the title & label?  I heard a track on the radio and it
sounded great.

Thanks,
Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: masada // Dresser
Date: 08 Nov 1996 03:53:28 -0500

In a message dated 96-11-07 22:52:20 EST, [e-mail] (Matt Walsh)
writes:

> Caught Masada in Philly last Sunday, a fantastic show. A suprisingly
>  larger venue than I would have expected and even more suprisingly sold
>  out. Hopefully Zorn won't wait so many years to come back.

Does anybody know who the bassist was at this show?  I assume he will be on
the whole tour.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ahad Ha'am
Date: 08 Nov 1996 09:35:06 -0500 (EST)

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know anything about the Zornian view
on the Middle East Isreali/Palestinian situation? Ahad Ha'am (the guy
that the Masada discs are dedicated to) was a leader in the philosophy of
a Jewish cultural center in Palestine within the existing structure in
cooperation with the Palestinians rather than an actual Jewish state.
Just wondering if anybody's read anything in interview or anything like that.

>
> Don't know (does Zorn even know?), but DIW plans to go up to number 10!!!
>
> Tzadik might wait a little bit before releasing the LIVE IN JERUSALEM and the
> LIVE AT MOGADOR (in order to avoid flooding the market).
>
> > City.  Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to
> > Seatle?  Would they have continued otherwise?
>
> Wayne moved to Seattle late '89, at the same time as Bill Frisell (they are
> in fact neighbors!). As you know, most of Naked City activity is posterior
> to these moves... Hence: no connexion between the moves and the band stopping
> any activity.
>
>     Patrice (back from 8 weeks of sabbatical in France!!!)
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bailey jungle album
Date: 08 Nov 1996 11:51:59 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Does anybody know where the Derek Bailey jungle album can be found?  I
> thought i saw it listed on the Forced Exposure website but it's not there
> anymore.  What's the title & label?  I heard a track on the radio and it
> sounded great.

It's called "Guitar, Drums'n'Bass" and it's on Zorn's Japanese Avant
label, which is currently sort of in distribution limbo while some things
are getting sorted out both here and abroad.  It is a pretty great
album and reconfirms that Derek is truly a remarkable innovator,
still pushing forward into new and unexpected territories (I guess the
upcoming performances and recording with Pat Metheny could be seen in
that light as well).

I have heard that Derek has copies available through Incus mailorder.
Unfortunately I don't have that address handy, but if anyone wants to
jump in here...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Mills <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Shankar
Date: 08 Nov 1996 09:32:20 -0700

>> Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in
>>release?
>> I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label.
>
>Is this Shankar the double-headed ten-stringed electric violin shankar we
>all know and love?  He's on Zappa's label?  Wierd...
>
>-jascha

Yepper.

This album was produced by Zappa in the early 80's and it features the
vocal talents of Zappa and Ike Willis from the Mothers on a couple of songs
(and i think Zappa makes guitar sounds on it too). Picture Shankar playing
Zappa and you hit the nail on the head.

if you just read the back of the sleeve, you'd swear it's a Zappa album by
the song titles alone -- like "Knee Deep in Waterheaters".

A really good, really weird effort.

Vootie,

Greg




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bailey jungle album
Date: 08 Nov 1996 08:37:32 -0800


On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:51:59 -0800  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody know where the Derek Bailey jungle album can be found?  I
> > thought i saw it listed on the Forced Exposure website but it's not there
> > anymore.  What's the title & label?  I heard a track on the radio and it
> > sounded great.
>
> It's called "Guitar, Drums'n'Bass" and it's on Zorn's Japanese Avant
> label, which is currently sort of in distribution limbo while some things
> are getting sorted out both here and abroad.  It is a pretty great
> album and reconfirms that Derek is truly a remarkable innovator,
> still pushing forward into new and unexpected territories (I guess the
> upcoming performances and recording with Pat Metheny could be seen in
> that light as well).
>
> I have heard that Derek has copies available through Incus mailorder.
> Unfortunately I don't have that address handy, but if anyone wants to
> jump in here...

Sphere Marketting in his last update catalog listed it as available.

Sphere Marketing & Distribution
Cargo Bldg 80 Rm 2A
JFK International Airport
Jamaica NY 11430
Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
Internet: [e-mail]

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #16
Date: 08 Nov 1996 14:48:41 -0500 (EST)

If this is helpful at all, I can personally confirm the existence of the
Douglas/Bennink disc "Serpentine". Tony Reif of Songlines is indeed
unhappy with his distribution, but I found a copy of the above in
Chicago's Jazz Record Mart (along with a really great Joe McPhee disc
documenting a live date he did with Eyvind Kang, among others, in 1995 -
small plug for Joe).  Personally, I think the Douglas/Bennink pairing
works - it's pretty gonzo, with Dave going beyond even Tiny Bell
territory. It's taken me a number of listenings to get into, but Han
swings like mad (not to mention his violin) and the ideas are flowing. I'm
eager for the Clusone disc with Douglas. By the way, Reif says we can
expect a Marty Ehrlich/Ben Goldberg disc early next year.
Jason Bivins

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bailey jungle album
Date: 08 Nov 1996 13:22:49 -0700

patrice:

> Sphere Marketting in his last update catalog listed it as available.
>

but when i tried to get this from sphere, i was told something along the line
of the distribution limbo story.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith about Zorn
Date: 08 Nov 1996 16:00:59 -0800


On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:46:29 -0500 (EST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> I've been transcribing and translating, from the French, Fred Frith's long
> comments about Zorn, Zorn's music and their collaboration, on the
> occasion of an extraordinary duo concert by both in Oct. 8, 1988.
>
> My question is: does anybody in the list by any chance know about other
> declarations, statements, interviews, or articles about Zorn, by Frith or
> by other musicians who played with him or not ? I know David Bailey's
> chapter in his "Musical Improvision" (only on the latest edition, by
> DaCappo) but I would be interested about references of other
> similar writings by musicians.

There is an article in MUSICS (English magazine) from 1979 where Frith
reports a series of shows he attended in NYC. In this article he shows
his surprise at how much awe other musicians are showing to Zorn (he
is talking about the "usual" crew which used to play with Zorn). Also
Frith kind of criticizes the way Zorn's pieces are structured (game
pieces). Coming from a free improv scene (Europe), Zorn's methods do
not look very democratic :-). From the article you can guess that
Zorn is a musician we will hear about in the next years. I have the
article somewhere and I should try to dig it because it is examplary
of how Zorn impressed (and still) other musicians by knowing exactly
what he wants (and this at an early age) and to get other musicians
do it.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barry Gilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Interview?
Date: 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500

-- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --

There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn
for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday.  I need help
from everyone with questions that I should ask him.  What would you ask him
if you had the opportunity?


Barry Gilbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Interview?
Date: 08 Nov 1996 16:54:00 -0800


On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500  Barry Gilbert wrote:
>
> -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
>
> There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn
> for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday.  I need help
> from everyone with questions that I should ask him.  What would you ask him
> if you had the opportunity?

Not an important one but just curious about:

    Why does he have no plan to release the East coast Masada (with Ben
    Goldberg)?

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Interview?
Date: 08 Nov 1996 17:21:00 -0800 (PST)

Patrice L. Roussel, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500  Barry Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
>>
>> There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn
>> for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday.  I need help

    hmmm...I was under the impression that he
    doesn't do interviews anymore...that would
    be great if he does come in.

>> from everyone with questions that I should ask him.  What would you ask him
>> if you had the opportunity?
>
>Not an important one but just curious about:
>
>    Why does he have no plan to release the East coast Masada (with Ben
>    Goldberg)?

    Don't you mean West Coast Masada there Patrice?

    cheers,
    mike

[e-mail] ------------------------------------------- [e-mail]
-=work=-             "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Interview?
Date: 08 Nov 1996 17:26:01 -0800


On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:21:00 -0800 (PST)  m. rizzi wrote:
>
> Patrice L. Roussel, demi-God and Icon sez:
> >
> >On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500  Barry Gilbert wrote:
> >>
> >> -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
> >>
> >> There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn
> >> for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday.  I need help
>
>     hmmm...I was under the impression that he
>     doesn't do interviews anymore...that would
>     be great if he does come in.
>
> >> from everyone with questions that I should ask him.  What would you ask him
> >> if you had the opportunity?
> >
> >Not an important one but just curious about:
> >
> >    Why does he have no plan to release the East coast Masada (with Ben
> >    Goldberg)?
>
>     Don't you mean West Coast Masada there Patrice?

Oups! I mean (of course) this Masada. I asked the question once to Zorn and he
said no (that he won't record any West coast Masada); I did not have the
smartness to ask why.

    Patrice (still trying to recover from too much travel :-).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bailey/Metheny
Date: 08 Nov 1996 21:30:34 -0500

A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't:  I just
talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming over
to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, the
best of which will be collected for an album.  This is apparently the sole
purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the US.

Best, Lang Thompson

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: For Steve Smith
Date: 08 Nov 1996 12:23:02 -0800

Please e-mail me. Apologies to everyone else.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richie Teh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine
Date: 09 Nov 1996 19:39:55 +1100 (EST)

Hi all,

>Personally, I think the Douglas/Bennink pairing
>works - it's pretty gonzo, with Dave going beyond even Tiny Bell
>territory. It's taken me a number of listenings to get into, but Han
>swings like mad (not to mention his violin) and the ideas are flowing. I'm
Yes, I bought this last week too. Imagine my surprise finding this gem
with the new Babkas CD) in a suburben CD shop in Melbourne Australia.
I strongly recommend this. This duo is totally totally wild!!! The
collaboration is indeed out of this world. Beware, most tunes on this
disc are complete improvisation and very well done, except for 2 standards
which was kinda cool (trumpet and other sounds).

>eager for the Clusone disc with Douglas. By the way, Reif says we can
Yes, I read about this on Patrice Roussel's Dave Douglas's discog (Hi
Patrice!! Welcome back!! Thanks for your help with the Joey Baron and Jim
Black discog). It mentioned that this album will be released on Gramavision
early next year. There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project
and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info?

>expect a Marty Ehrlich/Ben Goldberg disc early next year.
Yes yes yes!!! Can't wait!!!

Regards,
Richie Teh
Maintainer of Drumnet
http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet
Email: [e-mail] or [e-mail]

*Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more
 infor :-)
 ** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the
    survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!!
       Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bailey/Metheny
Date: 09 Nov 1996 13:32:50 +0200 (GMT+0200)

On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:
> A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't:  I j=
ust
> talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming =
over
> to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, t=
he
> best of which will be collected for an album.  This is apparently the sol=
e
> purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the =
US.

"Last chance"? Is there something that I don=B4t know... I must confess I=
=20
don=B4t have the faintest idea of mr Bailey=B4s age..., I know he has been=
=20
around for some time, thought...

 teemu


_-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D=
-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html
_-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D=
-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walter M. Young" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bailey/Metheny
Date: 09 Nov 1996 10:08:28 -0500

I haven't seen this show listed on Knitting Factory's homepage yet, but =
the dates are December 13 & 14.  Tickets are available for ordering now. =
 I've got mine!

----------
Sent:  Friday, November 08, 1996 9:31 PM

A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't:  I =
just
talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming =
over
to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, =
the
best of which will be collected for an album.  This is apparently the =
sole
purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the =
US.

Best, Lang Thompson



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (James Hale)
Subject: Re: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine
Date: 09 Nov 1996 10:19:53 -0500

Richie wrote:
>There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project
>and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info?

Dave told me in July that a live TBT will be recorded this fall and
released early in 97.
His Sanctuary project -- two trumpets, two samplers, two basses and two
drums -- is supposed to be out on the Avant label very soon.

Dave said that beyond these, he's also planning to release an orchestral
work with Friedlander and Surin soloing, something with Trilok Gurtu and
duos with Kenny Wheeler. These last two were still in the planning stages.

James Hale
Music Journalist
Ottawa



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Holtby)
Subject: Re: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine
Date: 09 Nov 1996 08:08:22 -0800 (PST)

>Richie wrote:
>>There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project
>>and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info?
>
>Dave told me in July that a live TBT will be recorded this fall and
>released early in 97.
>His Sanctuary project -- two trumpets, two samplers, two basses and two
>drums -- is supposed to be out on the Avant label very soon.
>
>Dave said that beyond these, he's also planning to release an orchestral
>work with Friedlander and Surin soloing, something with Trilok Gurtu and
>duos with Kenny Wheeler. These last two were still in the planning stages.
>
>James Hale
>Music Journalist
>Ottawa
>
>
>
>       I, too began salivating when I saw the Clusone Trio/Dave Douglas disc
pending upon reading the Dave Douglas Discography.  I queried Rykodisc on this,
however, and was informed that, although they were touring together, no
plans were in place regarding recording.
        Does Rykodisc/Grammavision speak the truth, or does the Zorn-list
know better?
                        Doug Holtby


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Cabinnet
Date: 09 Nov 1996 13:59:25 -0500 (EST)

> Dresser in top form... His new solo album Invocation is very good (the
> Hemingway arranged tune is amazing) but I always slap on Braxton's


Would this be Gerry Hemmingway?  I saw him for a measly $5.00 canadian at
the Guelph jazz festival and he blew me away.  Anyone who can keep an
audience rivitted for an hour with a solo drum-set concert is amazing.  I
bought two of his CDs: 'solo acoustic works 1983-1994' and 'solo
electro-acoustic works 1983-1994' and both are increadible.  Listening to
the solo acoustic stuff in the dark is spookier than anything else i've
heard...he uses every extended technique you can use on the drums, and
adds more of his own.  His electro-acoustic stuff is also brilliant.  Wow.

They're really hard to get, he says, so here's the label if anyone's
interested:

RANDOM ACOUSTICS
po box 301070
D-50780 koln, germany


phone [phone]
fax   [phone]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Olivier Nguyen Van Tan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bar Kokhba in France
Date: 09 Nov 1996 23:33:19 +0100

Hi,

Last week, Bar Kokhba was playing in France in Paris at LE HOT BRASS
(31st of October).

The band was:
Marc Ribot
Joey Baron
Greg Cohen
Cyro Baptista
Erik Friedlander
and Mark Feldman.

Zorn showed us his back all night long and seemed to be a real tyran =
with his musicians (especially with Marc Ribot...). He acted like a =
conductor.

Nevertheless, the gig was great and Joey Baron as usual was the best!!
(can he be bad?)

Zorn just played saxophone on the last song (the audience asked him).
But, his solos were not very great... very poor in fact.

Nevermind, the band was fantastic.

BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked =
City?
Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 =
minutes?


Olivier




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dwight Haden <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hex Kitchen
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:34:25 +0000

At 09:59 PM 11/6/96 +0000, you wrote:
>
>From: Howard Shih <[e-mail]>
>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:05:49 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Early Zorn Recomendations?
>
>I'm thinking of getting some of Zorn's earlier works but I'm not too sure
>where to start. The earliest Zorn works I have are Spillane and The Big
>Gundown. While I'm asking for recommendations... has anyone heard Ikue
>Mori's Garden or Hex Kitchen? I've like Death Ambient and am curious
>about her other stuff? How long has she worked with drum machines? Anyone
>see her perform?
>
I bought Hex Kitchen on the strength of Death Ambient and was not
disappointed.  Hex Kitchen has vocals on a few tracks, and is not quite as
dark, but the orientation and general sound are similar to Death Ambient.
Recommended companion pieces.
:------------------------------------------:
| Dwight Haden === [e-mail] |
:------------------------------------------:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Leng T'che
Date: 10 Nov 1996 13:04:08 -0500 (EST)

> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City?
> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes?

I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs
to make sure right now.  I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian)
because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear
again.

It's 32 minutes of big nasty guitar noise and screaming; big blocky power
chords which move around very slowly, and funeral dirge HEAVY bass drum
and cymbal thumping... it sounds like the ending of a heavy metal song
streatched out to half an hour with the actual song left off of the
beginning.

Supposedly it was inspired by the Melvins' stage show, but i wouldn't
know because i've never seen it.

hope that helps,
        jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Leng T'che
Date: 10 Nov 1996 10:59:38 -0800

At 01:04 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:
>> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City?
>> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes?
>
>I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs
>to make sure right now.  I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian)
>because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear
>again.
>

I bought mine for $8 new.  At least in the US (I realize both of the
previous posters are not living in the US), this has shown up as a cutout
through Tower.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Leng T'che
Date: 10 Nov 1996 20:43:29 GMT





> At 01:04 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:
> >> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City?
> >> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes?
> >
> >I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs
> >to make sure right now.  I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian)
> >because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear
> >again.
> >
>
> I bought mine for $8 new.  At least in the US (I realize both of the
> previous posters are not living in the US), this has shown up as a cutout
> through Tower.
>
> Jeff Spirer
> http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
> Axiom Records/Material Communications


I think I heard from somewhere (but I can't remember where) that Leng T'che is going to be reissued together
with Torture Garden. From what I can tell from your descriptions of Leng T'Che it is a much better companion
to Torture Garden than Grand Guignol.

Nick Vassiliou
York,UK



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Leng T'che
Date: 10 Nov 1996 16:57:26 -0800

Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 01:04 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:
> >> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City?
> >> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes?
> >
> >I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs
> >to make sure right now.  I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian)
> >because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear
> >again.
> >
>
> I bought mine for $8 new.  At least in the US (I realize both of the
> previous posters are not living in the US), this has shown up as a cutout
> through Tower.
>  Isn't Tzadik going to release that backed with Torture Garden?

-Sean


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Chamberlin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mr. Bungle
Date: 10 Nov 1996 18:36:08 -0500

I just watched the cut of the "quote unquote" video on the Warner Bros.
Mr Bungle home page, and I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the
entire video, or other Bungle videos.







"Homosexuality is the best cover   Scott Chamberlin

 an agent can have."           [e-mail]

    --William S. Burroughs     Tarkington Hall SW156

                   West Lafayette, IN 47906


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: terry kroetsch f <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada Chamber Parts
Date: 10 Nov 1996 21:34:33 -0500 (EST)


We, a new music org. in Ontario, are considering performing Masada
Chamber Ensembles " Bar Kokhba" (in part or full) live next year. Does
anyone know I would go about getting the score or parts or both for this?

Thanks,

NUMUS c/o Terry Kroetsch

P.S. personal request: can someone tell me how many albums have been
released by Medeski, Martin and Wood? Also, has anyone heard the Hellborg,
Lane and Apt.Q.258? And whats with three name bands....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Kevin Neales)
Subject: Buckethead
Date: 10 Nov 1996 22:50:05 -0500

I've heard about a few new Buckethead albums
Buckethead "Plays Disney"
Praxis"Live"
Arcana II

Does anybody know  when  any of these might be released.





                                                   Kevin Neales
                                                   [e-mail]




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buckethead
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:28:25 -0800

At 10:50 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Kevin Neales wrote:
>I've heard about a few new Buckethead albums
>Buckethead "Plays Disney"
>Praxis"Live"
>Arcana II
>
>Does anybody know  when  any of these might be released.


Praxis Live in Europe will be released early next year on a new label that
will put out Bill Laswell CDs.

Arcana II will be released in the first half of next year on Axiom.

I talked with Buckethead about the Disney album about six months ago and he
said he hadn't recorded it yet, at that time.  That fact combined with the
erratic release and distribution of Avant makes it anyone's guess.

I also get asked regularly about the Praxis studio album that was supposed
to come out on SubMeta.  That project has been shelved indefinitely.

There will be another Buckethead solo CD, label will be announced later.
Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Adam Ritchie <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 11 Nov 1996 22:43:34 +1030

Hi there,

I recently saw Mr bungle in Adelaide, Australia a couple of weeks ago
which was one of the most amazing shows I've experienced apart from MTM,
Le Fura De Baus from Spain.  Anyway, what I wanted to know was who was
the percussionist on the Australian Tour?  Was it Ed Mann from the Frank
Zappa group because I read in a local street mag that the percussionist
was an x-Zappa player.  Anyone know?  Thanks

Ritchie (Chimera)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Adam Ritchie <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell/Namlook
Date: 11 Nov 1996 22:49:48 +1030

Hi there,

I recently purchased a Bill Laswell CD entitled Psychonavigation which
is in collaboration with Pete Namlook.  I'm curious to what Pete Namlook
does(Excuse my lack of knowledge)?  Is he a keys player, programmer,
type person because there are some excellent sounds on this disc.

Ritchie (Chimera)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bailey/Metheny
Date: 11 Nov 1996 08:24:31 -0800


On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 13:32:50 +0200 (GMT+0200)  silver whale wrote:
>
> On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:
> > A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't:  I j=
> ust
> > talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming =
> over
> > to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, t=
> he
> > best of which will be collected for an album.  This is apparently the sol=
> e
> > purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the =
> US.
>
> "Last chance"? Is there something that I don=B4t know... I must confess I=
> =20
> don=B4t have the faintest idea of mr Bailey=B4s age..., I know he has been=
> =20
> around for some time, thought...

Born on January 29, 1930 in Sheffield (UK).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine
Date: 11 Nov 1996 08:34:51 -0800


On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:08:22 -0800 (PST)  Holtby wrote:
>
> >Richie wrote:
> >>There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project
> >>and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info?
> >
> >Dave told me in July that a live TBT will be recorded this fall and
> >released early in 97.
> >His Sanctuary project -- two trumpets, two samplers, two basses and two
> >drums -- is supposed to be out on the Avant label very soon.
> >
> >Dave said that beyond these, he's also planning to release an orchestral
> >work with Friedlander and Surin soloing, something with Trilok Gurtu and
> >duos with Kenny Wheeler. These last two were still in the planning stages.
> >
> >James Hale
> >Music Journalist
> >Ottawa
> >
> >
> >
> >       I, too began salivating when I saw the Clusone Trio/Dave Douglas disc
> pending upon reading the Dave Douglas Discography.  I queried Rykodisc on this,
> however, and was informed that, although they were touring together, no
> plans were in place regarding recording.
>         Does Rykodisc/Grammavision speak the truth, or does the Zorn-list
> know better?

Jon Abbey told me about it. He talked to Ernst Reijseger briefly during the
last Victoriaville festival and Ernst mentioned that they had recorded a record
with Dave Douglas that would be released on Gramavision.

But, as all we know, between record projects and what ends up in the stores,
a lot can happen :-).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bar Kokhba in France
Date: 11 Nov 1996 08:40:01 -0800


On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 23:33:19 +0100  Olivier Nguyen Van Tan wrote:
>
> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked =
> City?
> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 =
> minutes?

Knowing that it will be reissued on Tzadik with TORTURE GARDEN, je
garderai mes precieux FF.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Subject: Re: The Cabinnet
Date: 11 Nov 1996 11:07:41 -0800

>Would this be Gerry Hemmingway?  I saw him for a measly $5.00 canadian at
>the Guelph jazz festival and he blew me away.  Anyone who can keep an
>audience rivitted for an hour with a solo drum-set concert is amazing.  I
>bought two of his CDs: 'solo acoustic works 1983-1994' and 'solo
>electro-acoustic works 1983-1994' and both are increadible.  Listening to
>the solo acoustic stuff in the dark is spookier than anything else i've
>heard...he uses every extended technique you can use on the drums, and
>adds more of his own.  His electro-acoustic stuff is also brilliant.  Wow.
>

The Hemingway solo discs ARE really good.  Random Acoustics discs (and lots
of other European improv etc., are also usually available in the States
from Rastascan Records, from Gino Robair of the SF Bay area group Splatter
Trio:

Rastascan
P O Box 3073
San Leandro, CA  94578
e-mail: <[e-mail]>

North Country may also have them.



Herb Levy
[e-mail]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Laswell/Namlook
Date: 11 Nov 1996 11:56:22 -0800 (PST)

Hi.
Pete namlook, I believe, is a keyboardboard player.  He has his own FAX
label with upwards of 250 (yes, 250) releases on it.  He is an ambient
artist who seems to never sit still (much like bill laswell).  If you
want some more goos stuff, check out Transonic 3: Future Primitive.  It's
on his Fax label, and I think is really cool.  That's about all I know of
the man.  To my knowledge, he has no web page, buy it's worth checking
anyway.  OK.  bye.
Josh Martin



On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Adam Ritchie wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I recently purchased a Bill Laswell CD entitled Psychonavigation which
> is in collaboration with Pete Namlook.  I'm curious to what Pete Namlook
> does(Excuse my lack of knowledge)?  Is he a keys player, programmer,
> type person because there are some excellent sounds on this disc.
>
> Ritchie (Chimera)
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 11 Nov 1996 12:54:36 -0700

> I recently saw Mr bungle in Adelaide, Australia a couple of weeks ago
> which was one of the most amazing shows I've experienced apart from MTM,
> Le Fura De Baus from Spain.  Anyway, what I wanted to know was who was
> the percussionist on the Australian Tour?  Was it Ed Mann from the Frank
> Zappa group because I read in a local street mag that the percussionist
> was an x-Zappa player.  Anyone know?  Thanks

it was probably Willie Winant who also plays on the most recent record.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John E. Young" <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada in nyc
Date: 11 Nov 1996 14:19:45 -0800 (PST)

i don't know if anybody's posted about this yet, but i just saw in
the latest knitting factory mailing that masada will do 2 shows a
night there from dec. 6-12.  time for a trip to the big city...

jy


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark Turner)
Subject: Re: Laswell/Namlook
Date: 11 Nov 1996 14:40:58 -0800 (PST)


> Hi.
> Pete namlook, I believe, is a keyboardboard player.  He has his own FAX
> label with upwards of 250 (yes, 250) releases on it.  He is an ambient
> artist who seems to never sit still (much like bill laswell).  If you
> want some more goos stuff, check out Transonic 3: Future Primitive.  It's
> on his Fax label, and I think is really cool.  That's about all I know of
> the man.  To my knowledge, he has no web page, buy it's worth checking
> anyway.  OK.  bye.
> Josh Martin

I think TRANSONIC 3 is a fine release, but I should point out that
Pete Namlook himself does not play on this one.  Instead, it is Robert
Musso, Bill Laswell's sometime engineer.  I believe Laswell also
plays bass on this release.

And there is an excellent Fax web page at:

http://www.hyperreal.com/music/labels/fax/discog.html

--
 Mark Turner
 [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Paul Jacobson)
Subject: Re: Laswell/Namlook
Date: 12 Nov 1996 10:30:08 +1100

[e-mail] wrote:

>  To my knowledge, he has no web page, buy it's worth checking
> anyway.  OK.  bye.

There is in fact a FAX home page at hyperreal:

http://www.hyperreal.com/music/labels/fax

which has info about Pete Namlook, a complete discography for the label and
sublabels and links to reviews.

I'd second the recommendation of Transonic 3 and extend it to include
Transonic 1 and 2. Transonic 1 is due to be reissued on the Ambient World
label in the near future and Transonic 2 may still be available (despite
runs limited to 1000 copies). Transonic is Bob Musso with some help from
Laswell on various tracks. Worth checking out are Laswell's other
collaborations on the label, although these may be getting hard to find.

Peace out

Paul

webpages:> http://connexus.apana.org.au/~pauljay



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mason Wendell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Prelapse at the Knitting Factory
Date: 11 Nov 1996 18:41:39 +0000

Good Golly Miss Molly!

First, please let me apologise for such late e-notice about this
show.

So here's the scoop.

Wednesday, November 13 at 9:00 Prelapse will be playing at the
Knitting Factory. The Knit. is at 74 Leonard St. NYC.
In NY take the 1 or 9 train to Franklin St.

So come on down and shake it out.
Mason
************************************************************
*                          Mason Wendell                   *
*                         bassist\composer                 *
*Prelapse- Naked City's music & new music for loud ensemble*
*      http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/mwendell.html    *
************************************************************

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Discography of John Zorn version 10.0 just out
Date: 11 Nov 1996 16:02:15 -0800


    To let you know that I updated the Zorn discography at the WNUR web
site:

      http://www.nwu.edu/WNUR/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html

    More than 200 records are listed.

    Enjoy, and thanks again for the contributors (I hope I did not
forget any names in the credit section),

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Subject: THE ART OF REMEMRANCE - SIMON WIESENTHAL (fwd)
Date: 11 Nov 1996 21:19:38 -0500 (EST)


Here is some info on Philadelphia screening of T.A.O.R. which includes Bar
Kokhba soundtrack. I believe there are more U.S. screenings to follow.


---------- Forwarded message ----------

Dear Friends,

   We are very pleased that our documentary film THE ART OF REMEMBRANCE
- SIMON WIESENTHAL (a documentary feature by Johanna Heer and Werner
Schmiedel) will have a one week special engagement in Philadelphia at
the RITZ at the Bourse starting from December 11.

   As filmmakers we would like to inform as many interested people as
possible about the upcoming screening dates. We would highly appreciate
it if you could recommend the screenings to people you know who might
want to see THE ART OF REMEMBRANCE - SIMON WIESENTHAL.

   Many thanks for your attention in this matter.

   For further information please feel free to visit our WWW-page at:

    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RLP/sw. html

River Lights Pictures, Inc.
[phone]




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada Chamber Parts
Date: 12 Nov 1996 01:50:18 -0500

In a message dated 96-11-10 21:46:32 EST, [e-mail] (terry
kroetsch f) writes:

> NUMUS c/o Terry Kroetsch
>
>  P.S. personal request: can someone tell me how many albums have been
>  released by Medeski, Martin and Wood? Also, has anyone heard the Hellborg,
>  Lane and Apt.Q.258? And whats with three name bands....

I'm very familiar with the Jonas Hellborg, Shawn Lane, Apt.Q258
collaboration.  Improvised fusion at its finest.  I saw them recently in NYC,
and Jeff Sipe( Apt. Q258) told me that in the near future they may be doing a
record, produced by Bill Laswell and featuring the nephew of Nusrat Fateh Ali
Khan on vocals.  Would be very interesting.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sean Terwilliger )
Subject: Hellborg, Lane, Q-258
Date: 12 Nov 1996 06:05:26 -0800

You wrote:

>and Jeff Sipe( Apt. Q258) told me that in the near future they may be
doing a
>record, produced by Bill Laswell and featuring the nephew of Nusrat
Fateh Ali
>Khan on vocals.  Would be very interesting.
>
>


Wow! Jeff, any truth to this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada in Boston
Date: 12 Nov 1996 09:20:09 -0500

Hi all ~
What does one do in preparation to the attendance of a John Zorn
concert?  I've gone to the New England Conservatory to see students
put on a show of Zorn's music (Masada, solo for drums and Naked City.)
Actually the question is how to prepare the girlfriend.  She's not too
partial to 98 % of my Zorn collection.  Then again, she was to mellowed
(read : fast asleep) by the Bill Frisell show about a year ago.  At least
she likes listening to Tom Waits, the Lounge Lizards and Michael Nyman.
And I defiantly enjoy the tunes of Bill Morrisey and Greg Brown...

Like many I love talking music but this list often reads like a record swap
meeting filled with stamp collectors.  But enough silliness.  Chow for
now.

Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn / Chadbourne
Date: 12 Nov 1996 12:24:47 -0500

1. Has anyone heard the new Zorn / Chadbourne album? I saw it the other
day and was thinking of getting it, but I put it off. Is it just a bunch
of squeaky noises? Or do they make things a bit more interesting? Is it
similar to the Zorn/Bailey/Parker or the Zorn/Frith albums?

2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album?
After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they
had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and
would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well...
never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them
to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "George Curran <GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada in Boston
Date: 12 Nov 1996 08:59:42 -0800


--=_ORCL_9172871_0_11919611121035120
Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
Content-Type:text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

You have introduced an interesting topic: how does one approach Zorn's music?
Put another way, how would you introduce a total neophyte to the music?  This
introduces questions as to how you categorize Zorn's music.  You mentioned the
NEC Zorn fest.  If you attended the entire 2 day event, you realized how broad
a range the music extends.  Moreover, you do not have to like everything to
appreciate what he has accomplished.  I will admit I did not have much fun
listening to Cobra at the Middle East, but I am really looking forward to
Masada at the ICA.  I prefer News for Lulu to Naked City.  But enough of me, I
am very interested in hearing others recommendations.

--=_ORCL_9172871_0_11919611121035120
Content-Type:message/rfc822

X-Mailer:Novell GroupWise 4.1
Encoding:15 Text
Sender:[e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
Content-Type:text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hi all ~
What does one do in preparation to the attendance of a John Zorn
concert?  I've gone to the New England Conservatory to see students
put on a show of Zorn's music (Masada, solo for drums and Naked City.)
Actually the question is how to prepare the girlfriend.  She's not too
partial to 98 % of my Zorn collection.  Then again, she was to mellowed
(read : fast asleep) by the Bill Frisell show about a year ago.  At least
she likes listening to Tom Waits, the Lounge Lizards and Michael Nyman.
And I defiantly enjoy the tunes of Bill Morrisey and Greg Brown...

Like many I love talking music but this list often reads like a record swap
meeting filled with stamp collectors.  But enough silliness.  Chow for
now.

Bob

--=_ORCL_9172871_0_11919611121035120--


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn / Chadbourne
Date: 12 Nov 1996 10:27:46 -0800


On Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:24:47 -0500  Seth Gordon wrote:
>
> 1. Has anyone heard the new Zorn / Chadbourne album? I saw it the other
> day and was thinking of getting it, but I put it off. Is it just a bunch
> of squeaky noises? Or do they make things a bit more interesting? Is it
> similar to the Zorn/Bailey/Parker or the Zorn/Frith albums?
>
> 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album?
> After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they
> had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and
> would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well...
> never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them
> to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now!

From what I know, John Zorn does not want the Knitting Factory to release
anything under his name (it took two years and a lot of sweat to get out
the COBRA thing...). Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels
he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from
anybody to release his music.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Walsh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:09:00 PST


>>From: Adam Ritchie <[e-mail]>
>>Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:43:34 +1030
>>Subject: Mr Bungle percussionist
>>
>>Hi there,
>>
>>I recently saw Mr bungle in Adelaide, Australia a couple of weeks ago
>>which was one of the most amazing shows I've experienced apart from
>>MTM, Le Fura De Baus from Spain.  Anyway, what I wanted to know was
>>who was the percussionist on the Australian Tour?  Was it Ed Mann from
>>the Frank Zappa group because I read in a local street mag that the
>>percussionist >>was an x-Zappa player.  Anyone know?  Thanks
>>
>>Ritchie (Chimera)

I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that
Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played
on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much
about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Walsh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell's "Hear No Evil"...
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:35:00 PST


There were a lot of messages in digests recently about Laswell's "Hear No
Evil" album, mainly stating it was Laswell's best work. I bought it years
ago and was very unimpressed. I decided to dig it up and listen to it
again, and I still don't see what is so fantastic about this album. ...To
each their own I guess. Anyway, it seems that this is out of print and
hard to find, so sorry to have another message that sounds "like a record
swap meeting filled with stamp collectors.", but if someone wants to
trade for it, I'd be interested... I always wanted to kick myself for not
getting Laswell's "Basslines" when I saw it years ago, that is probably
my favorite of his.

Matt Walsh
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn's music
Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:34:38 -0500 (EST)


I found that listening to Zorn gradualy led to me liking evything he's
done, on some level, although there are some albums i definitly listen to
way more often than others.  IMHO, even people who don't like a lot of
Zorn's music (as may be the case with the girlfriend mentioned in a
previous letter) stand a good chance of liking a Masada show.  They are
infinitely more audience friendly than, say, Naked City or how i imagine
Painkiller to be.  They're al lot more musical, for one thing, not to
mention the absence of scary amplification and screaming people.  I'd
say that Masada would be an amazing introduction to Zorn's music.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Namlook
Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:44:52 -0500 (EST)


This really has nothing to do with Zorn, but people have mentioned Namlook
and have even recommended albums, so here's my two cents (1.2 cents
american):  his albums AIR and AIR 2 are both very beautiful (and are sold
together as a double thingy).  I like them better than any other FAX stuff
i've heard.  They are different from each other, so if you do find the
versions which are seperate (ie: NOT a double thingy) and only want to
buy one -
The first one is analogue synth, spacey, realm-of-pure-thought musical
geometry, whereas the second one is more obviously from the planet earth,
with samples of classical guitars, tabla, flute, etc..., although it is
still very 'ambient' in a spacey synth kind of way.  They both have a lot
of nice rhythmic trance-inducing stuff, but aren't 'techno' albums at all
at all at all.
The double CD is FAX, and the single albums are both on Rising High Records.
-jasch


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:03:54 -0700

> I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that
> Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played
> on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much
> about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht.

Winant is one of the finest modern classical percussionists around. He also has made
frequent forays into improv and rock. Here's a brief list of his recordings:

-Abel/ Steinberg/ Winant- Set Of Five (Music of Cage, Cowell etc)
-Room (Ochs/Brown/Winant)
-Room-Hall of Mirrors (as above + Gresham-Lancaster)
-Glenn Spearman Double Trio- The Fields
-Glenn Spearman Double Trio- Mystery Project
-Glenn Spearman Double Trio-Smokehouse
-Ron Anderson-Pak Small r Half Inch

you'll see his name pop up on miscellaneous classical recordings, and he also has
toured (& recorded?) with Oingo Boingo.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn / Chadbourne
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:11:43 -0700

seth gordon:

> 1. Has anyone heard the new Zorn / Chadbourne album? I saw it the other
> day and was thinking of getting it, but I put it off. Is it just a bunch
> of squeaky noises? Or do they make things a bit more interesting? Is it
> similar to the Zorn/Bailey/Parker or the Zorn/Frith albums?

given your tone here, i'd say you're not going to like it. It's not too similar
to those records, because Zorn's playing was so radically different 15
years ago, and because Chadbourne sounds completely different from Bailey
or Frith (at least to me). But it is a very abstruse music full of "squeaky
noises" as well as an astonishing level of chemistry between the players.
Highly recommended to fans of Zorn's (or Chadbourne's) pre 1980 work.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:17:33 -0800 (PST)

Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that
>Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played
>on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much
>about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht.

    Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD.

    mike rizzi


--
[e-mail] ------------------------------------------- [e-mail]
-=work=-             "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:17:33 -0800


On Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:17:33 -0800 (PST)  m. rizzi wrote:
>
> Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez:
> >
> >I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that
> >Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played
> >on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much
> >about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht.
>
>     Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD.

Mister Winnant is one of the busiest percussionists in contemporary music
(Cage, Riley, Harrison). He is also a teacher at Mills and is featured
on numerous recordings (including the set of strange 7" from RRRR). Amazing
that he finds the time to tour with Mr. Bungle.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 18:42:32 -0500

Winnant was also at the West coast Cobra gig a couple of months ago.  Along
with Mike Patton, David Slusser, Lyle Ellis, Trevor Dunn, John Schott, etc,
etc.  He was  on "mind emissions".


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gary M. Gettier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 19:30:05 -0500 (EST)

According to m. rizzi:
>
>Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez:
>>
>>I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that
>>Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played
>>on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much
>>about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht.
>
>    Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD.

I really enjoyed his work at the Bungle show last year. He made a good
show great. He was always doing something. Amazing.

Seeya,                                                            [e-mail]
Gary

"I can't take all the credit. The Yankees are a great team."
- Jeffrey Maier


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Michael Mathis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada
Date: 12 Nov 1996 18:54:32 -0600 (CST)

Does anyone know the Masada tour schedule?

Particulary, does anyone know if they are coming to Texas?

that is all.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 17:47:04 -0800 (PST)


of course, don't forget that Winnant
was involved with all of the "composer"
series 7" releases (including the live
MEV 7") which came out on Stomach Ache.

... or is this giving away the secret?

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn / Chadbourne
Date: 12 Nov 1996 21:17:40 -0500

*****  According to the Knitting Factory, the box set is officially defunct.
 Anybody know any details?

Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm


In a message dated 96-11-12 12:31:15 EST, [e-mail] (Seth Gordon)
writes:

<< After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they
 had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and
 would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well...
 never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them
 to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now!
  >>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alain et Louis Potvin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 12 Nov 1996 22:23:35 -0500

At 14:17 12/11/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez:
>>
>>I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that =
 =20
>>Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played =
 =20
>>on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much  =20
>>about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht.  =
=20
>

>    Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD


I saw Winnant at Victoriaville in May 96 (Fest. musique actuelle) with Tom
Surgal and Thurston Moore (Sonic Youth)

Alain Potvin =20
Alain Potvin
Qu=E9bec, Canada



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cage and Zorn music in concert
Date: 12 Nov 1996 23:10:08 -0500 (EST)

For those in the Boston, Mass. area, here's an upcoming concert event
which may be of interest:

The Enchanted Circle and the Callithumpian Consort present --
John Cage:  Cheap Imitation (chamber orchestra version)
John Zorn:  Christabel for 5 flutes
Giacinto Scelsi:  Hyxos for Alto Flute and Gongs
Ustvolskaya:  Sonata VI for piano

8pm, Monday November 18  at New England Conservatory
290 Huntington Ave., Boston, Mass.
FREE

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Frankco Lamerikx)
Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist
Date: 13 Nov 1996 09:25:48 +0100 (MET)


> Mister Winnant is one of the busiest percussionists in contemporary music
> (Cage, Riley, Harrison). He is also a teacher at Mills and is featured
> on numerous recordings (including the set of strange 7" from RRRR). Amazing
> that he finds the time to tour with Mr. Bungle.
>
>     Patrice.


During Bungle's European tour of February/March '96, there was rumour that
Wiliam Winant (with a single 'n') would become a permanent member of Mr. Bungle.
It seems that Bungle has written a ton of stuff for their next album which
includes percussion parts to be played by William Winant.

Frankco.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dwight Haden <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 06:47:35 +0000

At 06:28 PM 11/12/96 +0000, you wrote:

>>
>> 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album?
>> After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they
>> had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and
>> would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well...
>> never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them
>> to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now!
>
>From what I know, John Zorn does not want the Knitting Factory to release
>anything under his name (it took two years and a lot of sweat to get out
>the COBRA thing...). Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels
>he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from
>anybody to release his music.
>
>    Patrice.
>
I'm sure he doesn't need help.  I also suspect he enjoys releasing stuff on
a variety of labels, perhaps to give collectors something to feel proud
about.  Witness "Art of Memory" on Incus, Filmworks III on Toy's Factory,
Painkiller Live discs also on Toy's Factory.  These are all recent works
which could have gone on Avant or Tzadik.  I'm sure there're plenty of other
candidates too.  Why were Masada 1 thru 6 on DIW, not the sub-label Avant?
Why did you need a japanese translation to get Masada 4?  Where the hell is
Masada 7?

Yes, I know Filmworks III and the Execution Ground 3CD set are supposed to
come out on Tzadik eventually.  In the meantime, let's hope we all have
access to a decent record store.

=> Dwight Haden === [e-mail] <=


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nathaniel Dorward <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #24 -- Chadbourne/ Zorn
Date: 13 Nov 1996 10:29:46 -0400 (AST)

Haven't heard the _Nikki Arane_ album, but there's a track by
Zorn/Chadbourne called "Red Lightning, Part I" on Chadbourne's Leo CD
_Boogie with the Hook_.  It's the best thing on the album, in my opinion
(I posted a warning to prospective buyers earlier that they therefore
might just as well fork out for _Nikki Arane_, but this seems to have got
lost).  However, it's definitely within the scratch/pling/noise area of
improv; not very close to _Harras_ (Zorn/Parker/Bailey), for instance
(don't have the Zorn/Frith, alas), and more like _Yankees_.  --N.D.

                        *

                    Nate Dorward  ([e-mail])
                    website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/

                        *

                   ...Cambridge, where
        chthonic severance dictates endless toil.

                    --Peter Riley, _Alstonefield_


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jan-Wen Lu <[e-mail]>
Subject: Greetje Bijma
Date: 13 Nov 1996 21:38:02 +0800

I have a CD-Direct Sounds:Five Voices. With great vocal improvisation
works of David Moss, Shelley Hirsch, Anna Homler, Greetje Bijma and
Carles Santos. I especailly adore the voice of Greetje Bijma. I'm trying
to find her two CD's on Enja Records.
1.Tales Of A Voice (TIP-888808 2, Tiptoe)
2.Barefoot (ENJ-8038 2, Enja)--with Marilyn Crispell & Mark Dresser.

Can anyone provide good ways to mail-order them? I'm afraid they were
currently out-of-print. Also, please inform me more about the background
knowlege of this female vocalist from Netherland. Thanks.


--
Jan-Wen Lu  E-Mail address: [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 08:25:22 -0800


On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:47:35 +0000  Dwight Haden wrote:
>
> At 06:28 PM 11/12/96 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >>
> >> 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album?
> >> After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they
> >> had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and
> >> would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well...
> >> never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them
> >> to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now!
> >
> >From what I know, John Zorn does not want the Knitting Factory to release
> >anything under his name (it took two years and a lot of sweat to get out
> >the COBRA thing...). Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels
> >he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from
> >anybody to release his music.
> >
> >    Patrice.
> >
> I'm sure he doesn't need help.  I also suspect he enjoys releasing stuff on
> a variety of labels, perhaps to give collectors something to feel proud
> about.  Witness "Art of Memory" on Incus, Filmworks III on Toy's Factory,
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ART OF MEMORY is a duo and the other is Fred Frith. Why do you think Zorn
was behind the idea of making it on Incus. Not to mention that Bailey and
Zorn are good buddies.

> about.  Witness "Art of Memory" on Incus, Filmworks III on Toy's Factory,
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Zorn has a long and good relation with Asian labels; Toy's Factory is one.

> Painkiller Live discs also on Toy's Factory.  These are all recent works
> which could have gone on Avant or Tzadik.  I'm sure there're plenty of other
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe because of something called... a contract (my guess), or just to
keep a good relation working.

> candidates too.  Why were Masada 1 thru 6 on DIW, not the sub-label Avant?
                           ^^^

In fact, the same person is behind the Zorn projects on DIW, Avant and
Tzadik. Let's make the assumption that for practical reasons (financial?),
DIW was a better choice than Avant.

> Why did you need a japanese translation to get Masada 4?  Where the hell is
> Masada 7?

You just have to be a little bit patient and savour what you already have :-).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:22:39 -0500 (EST)

> Yes, I know Filmworks III and the Execution Ground 3CD set are supposed to
> come out on Tzadik eventually.  In the meantime, let's hope we all have
> access to a decent record store.

Does anyone know when FWIII is coming out on Tzadik?  I thought it was
already on Tzadik, but this may explain why the local record stores have been
scratching thier heads over my orders lately...

And...*where is* Masada 7, anyway?  I know at least one person mentioned
that it was "ssssssssmokin'", so i thought it was out already.

-jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:28:42 -0500

Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik
is also releasing a new BURT BACHARACH album of Judaica. (Yes, THAT Burt
Bacharach!). I don't know who's playing on it as of now. Masad Seven
(which would be "Zayin") I've never heard of, unless that's the "Masada
Live" album that came out in Europe, which I don't have. Anyone know
anything about that one?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mr R Teh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 08:41:08 +1100 (EST)

>Does anyone know when FWIII is coming out on Tzadik?  I thought it was
>already on Tzadik, but this may explain why the local record stores have
been
>scratching thier heads over my orders lately...

According to the Tzadik homepage,  the following will
be released on the 19 Nov 1996. There's no mention of FWIII.

Kletka Red: Hijacking --- Coming on November 19, 1996
New Klezmer Trio: Masks and Faces --- Coming on November 19, 1996
Jon: Smoke --- Coming on November 19, 1996
John Zorn: Filmworks V: Tears of Ecstasy --- Coming on November 19, 1996
John Zorn: Filmworks VI --- Coming on November 19, 1996

Regards,
Richie Teh
Maintainer of Drumnet
http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet
Email: [e-mail] or [e-mail]

*Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more
 infor :-)
** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the
   survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!!
   Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: slawlor <[e-mail]>
Subject: naked city questions
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:48:59 -0500 (EST)

Hi there.  I saw "Grand guignol" by naked city on cdconnection and I was
wondering what it was like.  The reviews of the other naked city disks
that I saw remind me that the content might be similar to zorn's naked
city release?  Is this accurate?
Also, I think the review of radio by the same group said that it was
cover versions of other famous songs?  Does anyone have a track list of
what songs are on this, and are they movie themes or jazz classics that
they perform or what?  Thanks for the information.


scott K. Lawlor
3358 Prange Dr.
Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223
Phone, 330-922-4895
http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:58:46 -0800


On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:28:42 -0500  Seth Gordon wrote:
>
> Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik
                 ^^

This one is out (with volume V).

> is also releasing a new BURT BACHARACH album of Judaica. (Yes, THAT Burt
> Bacharach!). I don't know who's playing on it as of now. Masad Seven
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

Forgot the details but basically nobody from the NY downtown is missing
on it :-).

> (which would be "Zayin") I've never heard of, unless that's the "Masada
> Live" album that came out in Europe, which I don't have. Anyone know
  ^^^^

The Masada Live is a totally different record (one that Zorn did not
allow to released and that can be considered as bootleg).

> anything about that one?
>

    Patrice.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 15:01:54 -0800


On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:41:08 +1100 (EST)  Mr R Teh wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know when FWIII is coming out on Tzadik?  I thought it was
> >already on Tzadik, but this may explain why the local record stores have
> been
> >scratching thier heads over my orders lately...
>
> According to the Tzadik homepage,  the following will
> be released on the 19 Nov 1996. There's no mention of FWIII.
>
> Kletka Red: Hijacking --- Coming on November 19, 1996
> New Klezmer Trio: Masks and Faces --- Coming on November 19, 1996
> Jon: Smoke --- Coming on November 19, 1996
> John Zorn: Filmworks V: Tears of Ecstasy --- Coming on November 19, 1996
> John Zorn: Filmworks VI --- Coming on November 19, 1996

And do not forget:

CRONOLOGIA by Peter Scherer
CUE SHEETS by Steve Beresford

In fact, these seven records have been available for one month with the
Bar Kokhab shows (got mine three weeks ago in NY).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: naked city questions
Date: 13 Nov 1996 15:20:26 -0800


On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:48:59 -0500 (EST)  slawlor wrote:
>
> Hi there.  I saw "Grand guignol" by naked city on cdconnection and I was
> wondering what it was like.  The reviews of the other naked city disks
> that I saw remind me that the content might be similar to zorn's naked
> city release?  Is this accurate?
> Also, I think the review of radio by the same group said that it was
> cover versions of other famous songs?  Does anyone have a track list of
> what songs are on this, and are they movie themes or jazz classics that
> they perform or what?  Thanks for the information.

All the songs on RADIO are Zorn's compositions. But what you say can be
understood because RADIO is in the same spirit as NAKED CITY (the first
Naked City), on which many covers are available.


146 - RADIO: Naked City

    1/ Asylum                                   (Zorn)                   1:54
    2/ Sunset Surfer                            (Zorn)                   3:22
    3/ Party Girl                               (Zorn)                   2:33
    4/ The Outsider                             (Zorn)                   2:27
    5/ Triggerfingers                           (Zorn)                   3:31
    6/ Terkmani Teepee                          (Zorn)                   3:56
    7/ Sex Fiend                                (Zorn)                   3:31
    8/ Razorwire                                (Zorn)                   5:28
    9/ The Bitter And The Sweet                 (Zorn)                   4:48
    10/ Krazy Kat                               (Zorn)                   1:51
    11/ The Vault                               (Zorn)                   4:44
    12/ Metaltov                                (Zorn)                   2:07
    13/ Poisonhead                              (Zorn)                   1:09
    14/ Bone Orchard                            (Zorn)                   3:53
    15/ I Die Screaming                         (Zorn)                   2:29
    16/ Pistol Whipping                         (Zorn)                   0:57
    17/ Skatekey                                (Zorn)                   1:24
    18/ Shock Corridor                          (Zorn)                   1:05
    19/ American Psycho                         (Zorn)                   6:09

    Recorded in April 1992
    Produced by John Zorn

  John Zorn: alto, vocals; Bill Frisell: guitar; Wayne Horvitz: keyboards;
  Fred Frith: bass; Joey Baron: drums; Yamatsuka Eye: vocals.

    1993 - Avant (Japan), Avan 003 (CD)


Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BIRD BRAIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Great day at the record store
Date: 13 Nov 1996 18:52:59 -0500

Went to a record store yesterday to browse around, and found a copy of
Heiner Goebbels'  "The Man in the Elevator" on vinyl and still sealed for only
$4.00!  Great finds like this help make life wonderful.  Stuff like this is hard to
find here in Cowtown, USA but when it does turn up it's usually cheap 'cause
no one else wants it. I found Bar Kokhba at the same store for $14, and I also
found Chadourne's "There Be No Tears Tonight" and "2000 Statues and the
English Channel" for 3 bucks a pop. Now I just need to fix the turntable so I can
enjoy them - my girlfriend's damn pet rabbit ate the power cord.

Kevin Kobielusz
Denver, CO

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hellborg, Lane, Q-258
Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:50:45 -0800

At 06:05 AM 11/12/96 -0800, Sean Terwilliger wrote:
>You wrote:
>
>>and Jeff Sipe( Apt. Q258) told me that in the near future they may be
>doing a
>>record, produced by Bill Laswell and featuring the nephew of Nusrat
>Fateh Ali
>>Khan on vocals.  Would be very interesting.
>>
>>
>
>
>Wow! Jeff, any truth to this?

I'm on an airplane reading this a few days after it was sent.  I will have
to look into this, I hadn't heard anything about it.


>
>
Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BIRD BRAIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Naked City Questions
Date: 13 Nov 1996 20:34:04 -0500

Hey, Scott
Grand Guignol is the same as Torture Garden except G.G. has a few hearty
extra tracks of Naked City playing the compositions of some of Zorn's
favorite composers.  Naked City plays awesome transcriptions of Claude Debussy's "The Sunken Cathedral" (originally written for piano) as well as some
preludes by Scriabin and many more.  Radio is more like the self titled Naked
City album IMO.  More riff-oriented (for lack of a better term) tunes - all Zorn
originals I believe (no covers). Buy them both - if you don't like them then you
have permission to flame me.
Just kidding.

Kevin

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 13 Nov 1996 11:43:26 -0800

Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:

> I'd
> say that Masada would be an amazing introduction to Zorn's music.

... for everybody except for the dweebs and mooks currently declaring
Ornette Coleman a fraud and a sham on rec.music.bluenote...

Steve Smith
(who still thinks the best intro to Zorn is THE BIG GUNDOWN)



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Frankco Lamerikx)
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 09:28:33 +0100 (MET)

What's coming out when?

> > Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik
>                  ^^
>
> This one is out (with volume V).

It's out in Europe too (ahead of its offical release date). I bought my copies
of both V and VI last Saturday from a regular store. I wondered, though, when
Filmworks IV is going to be released, and why Zorn would break the chronology
on that series? Is Filmworks IV perhaps the long-awaited Elegant Spanking
soundtrack?
>
> > is also releasing a new BURT BACHARACH album of Judaica. (Yes, THAT Burt
> > Bacharach!). I don't know who's playing on it as of now. Masad Seven
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
>
> Forgot the details but basically nobody from the NY downtown is missing
> on it :-).

It would be very cool if Mike Patton was involved in that album. He has the
perfect voice for it. Mr. Bungle even played an easy tune standard called
"Tower of Strength" (of which a Burt Bacharach version is available) in
Australia recently.

Can we expect any collaboration of Zorn and the guys from Mr. Bungle in the
future? I know Trey Spruance [Mr. Bungle guitar afficionado and all-around
keyboard wizard] told me he did some recording with Zorn when Bungle was in
New York last year.

Frankco.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (david m rothbaum)
Subject: silly technical question/s...
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:43:59 -0700

does anyone know the brand of instrument mr. zorn uses?  i belive his alto
is an old selmer but i wanted to know might there be more than one
instrument he normally uses?  and maybe what clarinet he uses?  and also
what brand of reed?  strenth?  does he make his own? etc.

this may be a real strech but i know zorn veiws the studio as an instrument
itself and id venture a guess that he is well aquainted with the technical
aspects of working in the studio.  does he have a home studio of any sort?
what preferences he has for mikes, effects, recording equipment etc?  he
seems to be incorporating the synclaviar recently and seeminly midi as well
(film works II) though that is a guess.  does he turn the knobs himself?

any info on this would be great as well as some other thoughts on the matter.

david

 O     O     O     O     O     O
-|-   -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-
/ \   / \   / \   / \   / \   / \

"can you point out the man who robbed you?"





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 14 Nov 1996 01:00:37 -0800 (PST)

I don't know.  My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of
a virgin (painkiller) on it.  I was pretty much hooked.

On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Steve Smith wrote:

> Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:
>
> > I'd
> > say that Masada would be an amazing introduction to Zorn's music.
>
> ... for everybody except for the dweebs and mooks currently declaring
> Ornette Coleman a fraud and a sham on rec.music.bluenote...
>
> Steve Smith
> (who still thinks the best intro to Zorn is THE BIG GUNDOWN)
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 10:55:47 +0000 (GMT)



On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Seth Gordon wrote:

> Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik

Filmworks V and VI are already out. I saw them at my local specialist last
week. They are both related to some sort of "S/M fantasy" or something...

Nick Vassiliou
York,UK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 14 Nov 1996 10:37:40 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I don't know.  My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of
> a virgin (painkiller) on it.  I was pretty much hooked.

Well, sure, but you and me and Jascha and probably everyone else on this
list are FAR from the normal average listener for whom Masada was being
suggested as an introduction... :-)

Steve Smith
(still fondly remembering Carol Emanuel SCREAMING HER LUNGS OUT five feet
away at the Knitting Factory, Spillane, Sept. 1993...)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: naked city
Date: 14 Nov 1996 09:33:55 -0500

Radio is NOT cover tracks, simply pieces designed to fit into particular
"genre" stylings. There were rumors of an all-covers album a few years
back, but that never came to fruition. Grand Guignol is covers of
various twetieth-century chamber works, plus an extended 17-minute title
track by Zorn. In addition, it contains "Tortue Garden" minus the songs
that appeared on the "Naked City" album.

Also: I spoke with Mark Perlson, manager of the Knitting Factory record
label. He says the Knit will NOT be releasing the live Naked City box,
and that either Tzadik or Avant most likely will.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: grand guignol interpretations
Date: 13 Nov 1996 22:18:09 -0400

At 9:33 AM 11/14/96, Seth Gordon wrote:
>Grand Guignol is covers of
>various twetieth-century chamber works, plus an extended 17-minute title
>track by Zorn.

Clarification, if I may.

Grand Guignol has interpretations of several 'classical' compositions, and
not all of them are 20th century - Prophetiae Sibyllarum is the
introduction of a large cycle of motets (of the same name) from the middle
16th century. Additionally, only the Messiaen (a movement in the Quartet
for the End of Time) is a true 'chamber work' in the sense of a chamber
ensemble. The Debussy and Scriabin are both solo piano, and the Ives was
originally written for orchestra without words, which Ives himself latter
arranged with text (that version is the one N.C. does here).

GG is one of my favorites because of these interpretations - especially the
Lassus and the Debussy, which I believe are truly artful interpretations.

LA CATH=C9DRALE ENGLOUTIE (Debussy)
                [from 24 Preludes, Books I and II (1910, 1913)]
THREE PRELUDES op. 74 (Scriabin)      =20
        Douloureus, d=E9chirant
        Tr=E9s Lent, contemplatif
        Allegro drammatico
PROPHETIAE SYBILLARUM (Orlando di Lasso)
                [this is actually spelled 'sibyllarum']
THE CAGE (Ives)
LOUANGE A L'=C9TERNIT=C9 DE J=C9SUS (Messiaen)
                [from Quartet for the End of Time]



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s                university of maryland
http://www.butterfly.net/mozart                       school of music
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greetje Bijma
Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:17:26 -0800

Jan-Wen Lu wrote:
>
> I especailly adore the voice of Greetje Bijma. I'm trying
> to find her two CD's on Enja Records.
> 1.Tales Of A Voice (TIP-888808 2, Tiptoe)
> 2.Barefoot (ENJ-8038 2, Enja)--with Marilyn Crispell & Mark Dresser.
> Can anyone provide good ways to mail-order them? I'm afraid they were
> currently out-of-print.

Ah, it's nice to see this name pop up on the Zorn List!  While there's
no direct connection to Mr. Zorn's Neighborhood, I've always felt that
anyone into the antics of Shelley Hirsch, Phil Minton or David Moss
would probably dig Ms. Bijma.

Greetje Bijma (pronounced something like HRITE-yah BYE-mah) is one
of the most wonderfully inventive vocalists I'm aware of.  She has
been a big part of the European jazz scene for some time but is
very little known elsewhere.  The two albums you mention, TALES OF
A VOICE and BAREFOOT, are only out of print in the U.S. -- as
lamentable as that may be, it does mean you should be able to find
them readily in Europe, so perhaps someone on the Zorn List could
point you to a reputable European dealer on the WWW.

Both of those albums are filled with a maniacal intensity and a
typically Dutch sense of the absurd (as with Misha Mengelberg, Han
Bennink and Willem Breuker).Bijma can also be heard on one of
Breuker's funniest discs, "Heibel" (BVHaast Records), the one
packaged in a wooden cheesebox.

The good news is that Enja will be issuing (I believe this month in
Europe and in January or February in the U.S.) a new album
which I think is her best yet.  The album is called FREEZING SCREENS
(Enja 9063) and is credited to all three participants: keyboardist
Jasper van't Hof, Bijma, and percussionist Pierre Favre.  It's
an incredible album recorded live and in the studio, van't Hof's
music and Bijma's words.  There are things Bijma does on this disc
that make my jaw drop.  And yes, though I am the publicist
for Enja's American distributor, this is a purely personal
recommendation, one that I'd make no matter what label this was on.
So if you do appreciate wild vocal artistry, do think about checking
this out.  (It'll probably be filed under van't Hof since his name
is first on the cover.)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:28:11 +0000 (GMT)



On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Steve Smith wrote:

> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > I don't know.  My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of
> > a virgin (painkiller) on it.  I was pretty much hooked.

I'd agree with most people that The Big Gundown is the best introduction.
I think most of the covers from Naked City (James Bond, Cicilian Clan)
will also be appropriate although most of the LP probably is not....

Nicholas V.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: silly technical question/s...
Date: 14 Nov 1996 09:55:50 -0800


On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:43:59 -0700  david m rothbaum wrote:
>
> does anyone know the brand of instrument mr. zorn uses?  i belive his alto
> is an old selmer but i wanted to know might there be more than one
> instrument he normally uses?  and maybe what clarinet he uses?  and also
> what brand of reed?  strenth?  does he make his own? etc.

The only time the brand of the instruments he uses was mentioned on a record
it was... about his huge collection of game calls :-).

> this may be a real strech but i know zorn veiws the studio as an instrument
> itself and id venture a guess that he is well aquainted with the technical
> aspects of working in the studio.  does he have a home studio of any sort?
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not to my knowledge.

> what preferences he has for mikes, effects, recording equipment etc?  he
> seems to be incorporating the synclaviar recently and seeminly midi as well
> (film works II) though that is a guess.  does he turn the knobs himself?
>
> any info on this would be great as well as some other thoughts on the matter.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations
Date: 14 Nov 1996 10:05:22 -0800


On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:18:09 -0400  Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
>
> At 9:33 AM 11/14/96, Seth Gordon wrote:
> >Grand Guignol is covers of
> >various twetieth-century chamber works, plus an extended 17-minute title
> >track by Zorn.
>
> Clarification, if I may.
>
> Grand Guignol has interpretations of several 'classical' compositions, and
> not all of them are 20th century - Prophetiae Sibyllarum is the
> introduction of a large cycle of motets (of the same name) from the middle
> 16th century. Additionally, only the Messiaen (a movement in the Quartet
> for the End of Time) is a true 'chamber work' in the sense of a chamber
> ensemble. The Debussy and Scriabin are both solo piano, and the Ives was
        ^^^^^^^

But there is an orchestra version of it, right? I have a 2xCD of orchestral
works by Debussy and I am pretty sure that LA CATHEDRALE ENGLOUTIE is on
it.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Aaron Hertzmann)
Subject: Masada-like recommendations?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:59:32 -0500 (EST)

Hello -

I was really blown away by the Bar Kokhba concert at the Knitting Factory,
and the CD is great too; I'm especially fond of the guitar tracks, like
"Mahlah."  Can someone reccomend similar recordings?  How are
"Kristallnacht" and "The Book of Heads"?  I've also got "Gimel," and I
generally enjoy the faster tracks; which of the Masada recordings do you
recommend?

Also, can you recommend good record stores in Greenwich Village?  I just
moved here from Houston, TX two months ago.  So far, I've found Other
Music (and, of course, Tower.)

Aaron

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Steve Beresford
Date: 14 Nov 1996 18:21:20 -0600 (CST)

Anybody know anything about this guy, more specifically his album "Signals
for Tea"?  That record features Beresford on piano and vocals, as well as
Zorn, Douglas, Cohen, and Wollesen.  Looks amusing to say the least, Zorn
and friends are all listed on 'backing vocals' as well as their respective
instruments.  Thanks all.  Later...


-Tom-


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations
Date: 14 Nov 1996 20:00:13 -0400

>> ensemble. The Debussy and Scriabin are both solo piano, and the Ives was
>                ^^^^^^^
>
>But there is an orchestra version of it, right? I have a 2xCD of orchestral
>works by Debussy and I am pretty sure that LA CATHEDRALE ENGLOUTIE is on
>it.

There may be - I've never heard it. Originally it's a piano piece, and
someone (maybe Debussy himself) may have arranged it for orchestra.

Considering that, though, it's possible Zorn gave the orchestra parts to
the Naked City members for playing.



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s                university of maryland
http://www.butterfly.net/mozart                       school of music
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: word on Bar Kochba
Date: 14 Nov 1996 17:30:44 -0800


On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:38:35 -0500  Mark Perlson wrote:
>
> The word on the double Masada CD:
>
> One song on the second CD will be changed.  It is the same song (so the
> artwork will be the same) although there will be a different version of it
> or something.

Are you not thinking about... BIBLE LAUNCHER. Never heard about a second
(different) pressing of BAR KOKHBA.

Any infos on the Japanese Third Person (saw it at the KF and stupidly
forgot to buy it :-(.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BIRD BRAIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous
Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:07:39 -0500

Hey Bob,
I've never been to a record swap meet full of stamp collectors, so I don't know
what you mean.  Anyway, I know how ya feel.  The only Zorn my girlfriend
likes is the 'Chinatown" cut on the Naked City album.  She loves Bar Kokhba
though - have you tried that?  I think she'd like the stuff live though 'cause
she usually does.  She never liked David Murray 'til I took her to seem him in
Boulder a few months ago.  But I'm not taking any chances for the Masada
show - leaving her home so my buddies and I can enjoy th music we've been
waiting years to hear live.
BTW are you the guy in the beer commercial who is accused by the drill sergeant of leaving beer in the barracks?

Kevin Kobielusz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (david m rothbaum)
Subject: Yankees
Date: 14 Nov 1996 18:25:03 -0700

pardon my spelling....is this album still in print?

thanks,

david

 O     O     O     O     O     O
-|-   -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-
/ \   / \   / \   / \   / \   / \

"can you point out the man who robbed you?"





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous
Date: 14 Nov 1996 22:32:52 -0500 (EST)




I don't have much advice here, but I do have a story.  An ex-girlfriend of
mine once burst in on me with a concerned look on her face while I was
exercising to _Locus Solus_.  "Oh my God," she said, "it sounds like
they're torturing their instruments!"

     Actually, a few months later she was in the UK without me and calling
me excitedly after checking out Company Week on her own.  But I have no
idea how I brought her around.  It must have been love.

Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 19:11:34 -0800 (PST)

  Hello. "Book of Heads" are 32 etudes composed by John Zorn and performed
by Marc Ribot for solo guitar. There are sounds on this album that you
never thought a guitar could make. If you are a technical guitar freak,
then this is for you. In comparison to the solo guitar tracks on "Bar
Kokhba" they are completely different. Same dude playing, same dude com-
posing, but a different stlye of music. I wish I could say more, but I
wouldn't be able to do it the proper justice.
  "Kristallnacht" is part of John Zorn's "Radical Jewish Culture"  concept.
Although it sounds nothing like "Masada" or "Bar Kokhba" it can be class-
ified in the same area. Overall it is a great record. Like all of his
work, it strikes up many emotions. Musically it is dark and passonate. John Zorn does not play
on it. I don't know  if you have heard "Elegy" or not, but it has some
similarties. If you haven't heard "Elegy" just get it. It makes me smile.
It is the only record I'm scared to listen to at night sometimes. So
either it is really scarey or I'm a total puss.
  "Masada". I think you should get all of them if you can. My favorites
are one and three. There is a live "Masada" album out. I don't have it with
me right now, but the label is out of New York. Write later if you are
interested and I can get it for you. In fact, I almost like the live one
the best because the improvisation in incredible. I hope I answered your
questions. When in doubt, grab your sack and yell at the top of your lungs
"My balls are humungus. They weigh twenty pounds. I like to rest them on
my feet!!!"


On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Aaron Hertzmann wrote:

> Hello -
>
> I was really blown away by the Bar Kokhba concert at the Knitting Factory,
> and the CD is great too; I'm especially fond of the guitar tracks, like
> "Mahlah."  Can someone reccomend similar recordings?  How are
> "Kristallnacht" and "The Book of Heads"?  I've also got "Gimel," and I
> generally enjoy the faster tracks; which of the Masada recordings do you
> recommend?
>
> Also, can you recommend good record stores in Greenwich Village?  I just
> moved here from Houston, TX two months ago.  So far, I've found Other
> Music (and, of course, Tower.)
>
> Aaron
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:04:57 +0100 (MET)

Hey,
I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would
like to pay  for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send
my 250 dollars?

Thanks!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: rodan cd
Date: 14 Nov 1996 23:03:03 -0800 (PST)

     I am writing for infromation on the John Zorn cd "Rodan".
Specifically, whether it is still in print (I believe that it is on the
the Swiss(?) label, Hat Hut) and if so, what it is like? Also are the live
"Masadas" still going to come out on the Tzdik label. And, is Naked City
ever going to do any more albums?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nonomura Yoshihiko <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rodan cd
Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:39:03 +0900

>From: [e-mail]
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
> I am writing for infromation on the John Zorn cd "Rodan".
> Specifically, whether it is still in print (I believe that it is
> on the the Swiss(?) label, Hat Hut) and if so, what it is like?
At first, this is an album of Sato Michihiro, a Japanese
Tsugaru-Shamisen player. John just produced this album.
He never played in it. All he did there was to choose
musicians for collaboration with Mr.SM. Here Sato did
not fight with Fred Frith, Steve Coleman or Christian
Marclay---he just juxtaposed/transformed their music.

Totally, very nice album. Yes, still available on hat
hut---a Swiss label on which JZ's "News for LULU" and
"Cobra" were released.

> Also are the live "Masadas" still
> going to come out on the Tzdik label.
??? I got it a few month ago....
--
                                    Y.Nonomura

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 14 Nov 1996 23:47:34 -0800

At 11:43 AM 11/13/96 -0800, Steve Smith wrote:

>... for everybody except for the dweebs and mooks currently declaring
>Ornette Coleman a fraud and a sham on rec.music.bluenote...

Which is yet another validation for my refusal to bother with that newsgroup.

There seems to be an effort on rmb to declare a lot of great musicians as
worthless.  I quit after reading some idiot say he could teach any teenager
to play like Sonny Sharrock.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 14:13:09 +0200 (GMT+0200)

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:

> Hey,
> I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would=20
> like to pay  for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send=
=20
> my 250 dollars?
>=20
> Thanks!

Wasn=ABt the release postponed somewhere in near future (=AB97?)

 teemu


-------------
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mr R Teh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Marc Ducret recommendations
Date: 15 Nov 1996 23:46:52 +1100 (EST)

Hi all,

Recently I've began appreciating the guitar playing on Marc Ducret
who holds down the guitar for Tim Berne's Caos Totale and also
Tim Berne's Bloodcount. I was especially taken in by his superb
playing on Berne's Caos Totale album "Pace Yourself", especially
on the second last track (and lengthiest one) "the legend of P-I"
which is 26:21 mins. This tune goes from quiet duck-calls, whistle
moment with minimum Japanese-styled drums, to ensemble out-jazz to
weird blues. My fav is the weird blues moment of this tune. What I
meant by weird blues is that, they band are playing in a slow bluesy
tempo, but everyone seems to be playing the wrong thing, i.e. not
exactly blues. During this passage, Marc did a fantastic non-blues
solo, trying to sound bluesy but totally out!! I'm really impressed by
it.

Anyways, if anyone has any good recommendations on this guitarist,
please do share them with me. I current own 2 albums with Ducret on
it Tim Berne's Caos Totale "Pace Yourself" and Tim Berne's Bloodcount
"Memory Select".

Thanks all

Regards,
Richie Teh
Maintainer of Drumnet
http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet
Email: [e-mail] or [e-mail]

*Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more
 infor :-)
** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the
   survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!!
   Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mr R Teh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada live CD
Date: 15 Nov 1996 23:49:50 +1100 (EST)

>> Also are the live "Masadas" still
>> going to come out on the Tzdik label.
>??? I got it a few month ago....
>--
>                                    Y.Nonomura
Hang on, are you refering to the Jazz Door release or is this a
completely new live release on Tzadik?


Regards,
Richie Teh
Maintainer of Drumnet
http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet
Email: [e-mail] or [e-mail]

*Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more
 infor :-)
** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the
   survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!!
   Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Steve Beresford
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:48:56 -0800

Tom Benton wrote:
>
> Anybody know anything about this guy, more specifically his album "Signals
> for Tea"?  That record features Beresford on piano and vocals, as well as
> Zorn, Douglas, Cohen, and Wollesen.  Looks amusing to say the least, Zorn
> and friends are all listed on 'backing vocals' as well as their respective
> instruments.  Thanks all.  Later...
>
> -Tom-

It's cocktail lounge music, pure and simple.  Very droll and witty,
very little of what you expect from Zorn (or even Beresford, who
elsewhere is quite the formidable improvisor).  I know numerous
folks who can't stand it; personally I think it's swanky.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 09:55:58 -0500

All of the Masada albums are worth getting. Book of Heads is more of an
experimental guitar album- no heavy klezmer here.  Kristallnacht is
pretty excellent. It's a very angry album. Sort of an Industrial /
Judaica / Noise combo.  Greenwich Village? I've always thought Other was
the best, but check out Mondo Kim's on St. Mark's Place, too. Odds are
whatever you're looking for in the avant-garde you'll find at one of the
two stores. Of all the Kim's in New York it's Mondo that has the best
music selection, though sometimes you might want to stop by Kim's
Underground, too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Corroto <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada 11/14 Columbus
Date: 15 Nov 1996 09:59:26 -0500

saw the first set of Masada at the Wexner art center
Ohio State University (oh yeah the one with the undefeated
football team) last night

yes Greg Cohen was the bassist

a bit strange affair, no one clapped as they took the stage,
they proceded to discuss for what seemed like an eternity
whether to play the scheduled opener cuz, i figured the crowd
was full of grey hairs (probably elder jewish folk)
zorn said "fuck it" and they tore into an Ornette tune.

wow the jewish vwersion of 1959 Ornette Coleman. COOL

they followed with all masada stuff, the crowd gave only one
ovation, that was to Joey baron for a thunderous drum solo
otherwise the crowd kinda was taken back by these NICE YOUNG MEN
and their music........some kids in the back hooted for Naked City
covers

Cohen, and Douglas NEVER looked up

Zorn did once to introduce the band

did the music cook? swing?

sometimes, the band seemed tenative...I'll blame it on first set jitters

or is it just prepublicity drawing a uninformed crowd?
The 7 or so people I taked to never heard a Masada tune
others were crazed Naked City fans that didnt' know Ornette
Coleman from Coleman Hawkins

Mark Corroto
SoS Jazz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:05:20 -0400

At 9:16 PM 11/14/96, slawlor wrote:
>Hi there.  Just out of curiosity, what does grand guignol mean if
>anything at all?  Zorn has some pretty strange titles for some of his
>releases and I wonder what the titles mean?  Thanks for the information.

The "Grand Guignol" was a popular form of entertainment in Paris at the
turn of the century - sort of the morbid equivalent to the British paying
admission to visit Bedlam. Essentially, it was a live horror show. Here's
the liner notes from the CD:

Decades before our modern tradition of Splatter films, The Grand Guignol
served up torture, incest, blood lust, insanity, mutilation and death to
generations of fervid spectators. But the Grand Guignol is not simply the
theater of horror that shocked Paris for 65 years from 1897 to 1962. It is
the celebration of the darker side of our existence. It has always been
with us. It will always be. Throughout history Artists have been obsessed
with humanity's Taboos and Phobias. Aristotle, Aeschylus, Shakespeare,
Sade, Goya, Poe, Dali, Bataille, Hitchcock, Irving Klaw, Bacon, Dan
Oniroku, H.G. Lewis, Hermann Nitsch, Carcass. Our fascination with Fear,
Terror and Evil, like Death itself, knows no racial, cultural or religious
barriers. It resides in our collective unconscious, binding us together
with ropes we try, but are ultimately unable to sever. Only through violent
trauma, or the convulsive viscera of artistic vision does it rise to the
surface, reminding us that is has, in truth, been there all along.



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s                university of maryland
http://www.butterfly.net/mozart                       school of music
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:03:22 -0500

The Grand Guignol was a sort of "atrocity theatre" in which painful and
disturbing acts were enacted on stage for your viewing pleasure. Kind of
a 19th century (or was it 18th?) "Faces of Death". See the movie
"Bloodsucking Freaks" for a general idea.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: silly technical question/s..
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:14:09 -0500 (EST)

I've got an old 1988 (wow! Imagine what it must have been like to live
back then!) Down Beat (which of course I stole from school, as I would
never pay for such rectal dribble) and there's a Zorn interview which
lists his shit thusly:

       "John Zorn's alto sax is a mid-60's Selmer Mark VI; he has two
setups for it. The first uses a #6M Dukoff metal mouthpiece and a Van
Doren #2 reed. The second uses an old metal Brillheart mouthpiece with a
Rico reed."

Trust me though David Rothbaum, no point in spending 100$ on a Dukoff
when there's nothing on this earth can beat the godly whistle of a fine
12$ Rico Royal. Ah, it makes me weep but to think of it!

On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, david m rothbaum wrote:

> does anyone know the brand of instrument mr. zorn uses?  i belive his alto
> is an old selmer but i wanted to know might there be more than one
> instrument he normally uses?  and maybe what clarinet he uses?  and also
> what brand of reed?  strenth?  does he make his own? etc.
>
> this may be a real strech but i know zorn veiws the studio as an instrument
> itself and id venture a guess that he is well aquainted with the technical
> aspects of working in the studio.  does he have a home studio of any sort?
> what preferences he has for mikes, effects, recording equipment etc?  he
> seems to be incorporating the synclaviar recently and seeminly midi as well
> (film works II) though that is a guess.  does he turn the knobs himself?
>
> any info on this would be great as well as some other thoughts on the matter.
>
> david
>
>  O     O     O     O     O     O
> -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-   -|-
> / \   / \   / \   / \   / \   / \
>
> "can you point out the man who robbed you?"
>
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:18:55 -0500

Send the $250 to: Seth Gordon Imports, 44 Franklin St. Apt. 4, New
London CT, 06320, USA. Make checks payable to Seth Gordon. Please do not
send cash in the US mail.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:16:58 -0500 (EST)

Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it.

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:

> Hey,
> I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would
> like to pay  for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send
> my 250 dollars?
>
> Thanks!
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marc Ducret recommendations
Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:32:14 -0500

Marc Ducret surely is one of the most amazing guitarists working, and
his work with Tim Berne is exceptional. He has a couple of solo albums,
but first I'd recommend going with some more Berne: I'd start with
"Diminutive Mysteries"- a collaboration with Julius Hemphill featuring
David Sanborn(!?) of all people. The Caos Totale band's "Nice View" is
pretty excellent, and the album starts with an incredible Ducret solo.
After that, the other two Bloodcount albums, and "Fractured Fairy Tales"
pretty much rounds out the Ducret years-to-date with Berne. I might have
forgotten one or two, but those are the stand-out ones.

It may still be available in Europe, but I know it's out of print in
America: Tim Berne's "Fulton St. Maul"- With Frisell, not Ducret, but
some of the best work I've heard Bill F. do and one of the best TB
albums.

Ducret's solo albums are alot more "in" than his work with TB. Good
stuff, though he tends to push the boundaries more when he's with Berne.
His solo albums are both (I believe) pre-dating his Berne years, so I
imagine his style has just changed alot.

            Seth Gordon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nathaniel Dorward <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #26 (Debussy/ G.Guignol)
Date: 15 Nov 1996 12:02:59 -0400 (AST)

The orchestration of "The Sunken Cathedral" was originally Ravel's, I
believe.  I'll add my vote: _Grand Guignol_ is a great album: I don't care
much for the 17-minute title track, but the rest is prime Zorn (I even
like the version of Messiaen's "Louange" better than my recording of the
original version!). --N

                        *

                    Nate Dorward  ([e-mail])
                    website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/

                        *

                   ...Cambridge, where
        chthonic severance dictates endless toil.

                    --Peter Riley, _Alstonefield_


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rodan cd
Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:07:49 -0800


On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:03:03 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>      I am writing for infromation on the John Zorn cd "Rodan".

It is a record by Sato Michihiro, with no appearance of Zorn on it (he
only produced it).

Few months ago, one Tower Records here (Portland, OR) had two copies that
they were desesperate to sell...

> Specifically, whether it is still in print (I believe that it is on the
> the Swiss(?) label, Hat Hut) and if so, what it is like? Also are the live
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think it is out of print but it is not yet a collector item. Meaning:
you will find it, just a matter of months.

> "Masadas" still going to come out on the Tzdik label. And, is Naked City
> ever going to do any more albums?

Yes, there will be Masadas on Tzadik but my impression (after talking to
the persons running Tzadik), is that it is not at the top of their priority
list :-). The reason being, of couse, the DIW output (which should go up
to number 10).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:10:11 -0800


On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:57 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:
>
> Hey,
> I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would
> like to pay  for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send
> my 250 dollars?

    Sound Factory Records
    3/F, Seaview Centre
    139-141 Hoi Bun Road
    Kwun Tong, Kowloon
    Hong Kong

    Tel: [phone]
    Fax: [phone]
    e-mail: [e-mail]

Do not forget to send me its detailed description :-).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:40:25 -0800


On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:55:58 -0500  Seth Gordon wrote:
>
> All of the Masada albums are worth getting. Book of Heads is more of an
> experimental guitar album- no heavy klezmer here.  Kristallnacht is
> pretty excellent. It's a very angry album. Sort of an Industrial /
> Judaica / Noise combo.  Greenwich Village? I've always thought Other was
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Always? I thought the store opened few months ago...

> the best, but check out Mondo Kim's on St. Mark's Place, too. Odds are
> whatever you're looking for in the avant-garde you'll find at one of the
> two stores. Of all the Kim's in New York it's Mondo that has the best
> music selection, though sometimes you might want to stop by Kim's
> Underground, too.

With the following one, the list is complete:

   Downtown Music Gallery
   211 East 5th Street
   New York, NY 10003
   Tel: [phone]
   Fax: Fax [phone]
   e-mail: [e-mail]

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: post Masada in Boston
Date: 15 Nov 1996 12:45:14 -0500

Hi all ~
Masada put on an excellent show at the ICA the other night -- and my girl
friend enjoyed it as well (at only point she lean over and mention
similarities between Zorn's playing and a dying ostrich.)  Now if only I
was prepared for that long hair he was sporting...
My own introduction to Zorn was through the self titled Naked City album,
which remains a favorite among favorites.  As a result I hunted down all
Frisell and Horowitz discs I could.
chow4now
(fellow stamp collector) Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 19:32:19 +0100 (MET)

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:

> Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it.

I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live
In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that
somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is...

Jonas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 15:15:25 -0500 (EST)

So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye?
What's that sound like?

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
>
> > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it.
>
> I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live
> In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that
> somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is...
>
> Jonas
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: _Live In China_ set
Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:18:36 -0600 (CST)

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:57 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:
> >
> > Hey,
> > I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would
> > like to pay  for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send
> > my 250 dollars?
>
>     Sound Factory Records
>     3/F, Seaview Centre
>     139-141 Hoi Bun Road
>     Kwun Tong, Kowloon
>     Hong Kong
>
>     Tel: [phone]
>     Fax: [phone]
>     e-mail: [e-mail]
>
> Do not forget to send me its detailed description :-).
>
>     Patrice.

I second the opinion that "it was postponed" - last I heard, I got an
email from the Sound Factory guy (reproduced below) that it was not gonna
be out soon.  If anybody *really* gets it, let us know....  Guess I should
email Sound Factory again to see if it's really out.....

cya
brian
Here's the msg I got from SF.....


From [e-mail] Fri Nov 15 16:17:39 1996

Dear Brian,

With regard to the Zorn / Eye CD set, i regret to inform you that this
project has now been postponed until further notice; probably early next
spring.  Anyway, i'll keep you posted on the progress.  Lastly, i would
like to thank you for your interest and support on this project.

Best regards,

CORY LI


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 14:59:00 -0800 (PST)

it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room.
If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know
whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them.


On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:

> So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye?
> What's that sound like?
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
> >
> > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it.
> >
> > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live
> > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that
> > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is...
> >
> > Jonas
> >
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Aaron J. Rabushka" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tzadik Adress
Date: 15 Nov 1996 18:39:54 -0600 (CST)

Does anybody have the snail-mail address for the Tzadik operation?

Aaron J. Rabushka
[e-mail]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Christian Marclay retro
Date: 15 Nov 1996 22:04:35 -0500

There's a listing in the new issue of ICE for a Christian Marclay album
called "Works 81-85" to be released by Touch & Go at an unspecified date.
 Anybody know anything about this?  (T&G are also doing a God Is My Co-Pilot
best-of and an album from the Vandermark Five.)

Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BIRD BRAIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: M.G.H.Z.A.
Date: 15 Nov 1996 23:53:44 -0500

Exercising to Locus Solus, Mr. Hamilton?  Sure beats sweatin' to the oldies
I guess.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A., Blegvad
Date: 16 Nov 1996 01:36:51 -0500 (EST)



Yep, it always gets my heart rate going when Blegvad yelps "What is there
like a prick?" at the beginning of track 2.  Speaking of which (he says,
slyly diverting attention away from his own extremely eccentric behavior),
does anyone know what Mr. Blegvad is up to these days?

Chris

Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, BIRD BRAIN wrote:

> Exercising to Locus Solus, Mr. Hamilton?  Sure beats sweatin' to the oldies
> I guess.
>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 16 Nov 1996 00:56:18 -0600 (CST)

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

> it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room.
> If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know
> whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them.
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
>
> > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye?
> > What's that sound like?

Actually, it's *100* CDs, not 150, and from what Sound Factory told me,
the running times of each CD vary from about 1 minute to full-length
(about 80 minutes), so I dunno how long the set actually is, but prob'ly
not anywhere near 100+ hours.....

cya
brian



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: new Tzadiks, Masada 7, Bailey's jungle record
Date: 16 Nov 1996 02:46:04 -0500

Consumer buying tip: for those of you living in and about NYC, the Knitting
Factory has copies of the new Tzadik CDs (well, the two Zorn releases anyway,
not sure about the others), Masada 7 on DIW, and the Derek Bailey jungle
record on Avant.

Jon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Robert Cahen's "La 2eme Jour" film
Date: 16 Nov 1996 10:37:27 +0100

Few days ago I received a film (videoclip?) made by Robert Cahen titled
"La 2eme Jour" for John Zorn's "Hommage a GODARD" music. It's only 9 min
long but really unusual and fantastic. Does anybody know something more
about it?

Marcin Witkowski


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 16 Nov 1996 03:05:12 -0700

> Actually, it's *100* CDs, not 150, and from what Sound Factory told me,
> the running times of each CD vary from about 1 minute to full-length
> (about 80 minutes), so I dunno how long the set actually is, but prob'ly
> not anywhere near 100+ hours.....
>
i heard that one (or some) of the discs is (are) as short as 3 seconds.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 16 Nov 1996 15:42:02 +0000 (GMT)



On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, john shiurba wrote:

> > Actually, it's *100* CDs, not 150, and from what Sound Factory told me,
> > the running times of each CD vary from about 1 minute to full-length
> > (about 80 minutes), so I dunno how long the set actually is, but prob'ly
> > not anywhere near 100+ hours.....
> >
> i heard that one (or some) of the discs is (are) as short as 3 seconds.

wow,that's so hip man..... so .. avantgarde...

N.Vassiliou
"play some music please"
York,UK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mason Wendell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 16 Nov 1996 11:07:08 +0000

> Date:          Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:34:38 -0500 (EST)
> From:          "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
> To:            zorn list <[e-mail]>
> Subject:       zorn's music

I did a half-hour presentation of Zorn's music as a final project at school
last summer. I did my best to cover the widest range of his stuff and
still come away with some kind of sense of a "central zorn theme." I
don't know how successful I was, (I would have preferred an hour) but
I think I expanded a few people's views of how one person can stretch
himself musically.
Anyway, my point. After much deliberation, I decided that the best
intro to my tape would be the first minute of "Classic Guide to
Strategy"- some amazing squawks, etc. It's the most common type of
sound in his music. And you might as well get it out of the way when
introducing his music. If someone can't deal with some screaming then
you should probably keep Zorn far away from this person.

Mason
************************************************************
*                          Mason Wendell                   *
*                         bassist\composer                 *
*Prelapse- Naked City's music & new music for loud ensemble*
*      http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/mwendell.html    *
************************************************************

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Justin Morrison <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous
Date: 16 Nov 1996 11:55:45 -0800

Hmm.. the first time my last girlfriend heard me listening to Zorn, she
loved it.  I never thought about this before, but she did "downsize" me
about the time she had taped most of my Zorn CDs.  Of course, her CD
collection housed the Ex/Tom Cora albums, which are currently with me.
Heh, heh.

-J

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Big Gundown(film)
Date: 16 Nov 1996 17:23:23 +0000 (GMT)

Could the film "The Big Gundown" be also called "The Big
Silence"?Although,it is also from the same era(1968), directed by Sergio
Corbucci and with music by Ennio Moricone, I could not find anything
relating the film to the title "The Big Gundown". Has the title changed?Is
it not the same film? Does anybody know anything about it? BBC1(UK) is
showing it tonight at 12.10 if anybody's interested.

Thanks

N.Vassiliou
York,Uk


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Subject: japanese noise, etc for sale
Date: 16 Nov 1996 11:30:13 CST

pardon the commercial intrusion, but some of you may be interested in a
message I just sent to rec.music.marketplace.vinyl. I am auctioning off a lot
of Japanese stuff like Hanatarash, Null, ANP, and some other noise and
experimental records.

If you want me to send thelist directly to you, just let me know.

Thanks, Rob Pleshar
[e-mail]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Steve Beresford
Date: 16 Nov 1996 20:34:54 -0800


>> Anybody know anything about this guy, more specifically his album "Signals
>> for Tea"?  That record features Beresford on piano and vocals, as well as
>> Zorn, Douglas, Cohen, and Wollesen.  Looks amusing to say the least, Zorn
>> and friends are all listed on 'backing vocals' as well as their respective
>> instruments.  Thanks all.  Later...

I like this record a lot, but other than the often wistful lyrics, it's
very swinging upbeat jazz, so beware.  Also, the backing vocals only come
in to play on a couple of tracks.

I thought I read something here the other day about Beresford's new album
for Tzadik being available at Masada shows.  Anyone know anything about it?

Cheers,

Alexander



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's music
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:26:26 +0200 (GMT+0200)

On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, N Vassiliou wrote:

> > > I don't know.  My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of
> > > a virgin (painkiller) on it.  I was pretty much hooked.
>
> I'd agree with most people that The Big Gundown is the best introduction.
> I think most of the covers from Naked City (James Bond, Cicilian Clan)
> will also be appropriate although most of the LP probably is not....

Emmm, one of the first Zorn(-related) records was actually the first
Naked City and I loved it! Just the whole record. As an introduction the
NC albums or Big Countdown could be quite good, because a) they present
quite extreme elements of Zorn's music (love those sqweeks... :) but b)
they do it in an entertaining way, so it is easy to 'get in'. The Big
Gundown is also great because it has incredible array of great players on
it (F.Frith, C.Marclay, D.Galas... what other record has a line-up like
that?)  On the other hand, Zorn doesn't play that much on BG, hmmm...

Of course this whole 'introduction' business is a higly personal issue...
Someone who is usually into noise-rock propably has more appetite for
Painkiller than Masada...


 teemu

-------------
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Henry Kaiser
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:40:45 +0100 (MET)

The Henry Kaiser guitar solo on "State of the Union" is great... Which of
his cds are recommended? I have no idea were to start...

Jonas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: h davies <[e-mail]>
Subject: ducret,robertson...
Date: 17 Nov 1996 12:52:05 -0800

ducret plays acoustic guitar on louis sclavis''acoustic quartet'(ecm).
Has anyone got info. on the new Herb Robertson cd 'sound implosions'(cimp
110)- i think it's a trio?( is he on anything else since 'certified'?
)any info. on ellery eskelin's 'the sun died'(with ribot/wollenson?)or a
mark feldman cd 'chromatic persuaders'?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:40:38 +0200 (GMT+0200)

On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:

> The Henry Kaiser guitar solo on "State of the Union" is great... Which of
> his cds are recommended? I have no idea were to start...

> Jonas
  ^^^^^ (?? It says 'Torsten' above ... just wonderin'...)

Kaiser has been on quite a 'few' records... I saw a selected(!) discography
once that contained some 40-50 records, and this was back in '87 or
something! Most of them are hard-to-come-by and were released via
obscure, small labels (biiig suprise here... :)

Anyway, my favourites: Crazy Backwards Alphabet, which is a more
rock-orientated project... Somewhat (in)famous for the almost-perfect
xerox-cover of a ZZ Top standard (what I of corse can't remember right
now, dang!), perfect apart from the vocal, what is translated (or
'translated', I don't know... :) to russian... What propably describes
the overal vibe quite well: Zany musicians havin' fun... It's great.

[an afterthought: is it 'La Grande'?]

His solo acoustic (or just solo?) record, quite recent (95?). I can't
remember the name again (what have I been eating lately?), but it's lemon
tweezer something... I don't own this myself but it is very funny and weird.

All (both?) the French-Frith-Kaiser-Thompson records. More nice music in
the CBA vein: Crazy covers, some good original material and great, great,
great guitar playing...

If you can find them, the older records with the good ol' Eugene
Chadbourne are highly amusing and uncompromising affairs... Someone
described them sounding as "two or more men fighting in a studio full of
toys and misc. percussion 'instruments' and occasionally bumb eachover in
the guitar(s) lying around" or something. I can't put it better :)


 teemu


-------------
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous
Date: 17 Nov 1996 09:26:32 -0800

>Hey Bob,
>I've never been to a record swap meet full of stamp collectors, so I don't know
>what you mean.  Anyway, I know how ya feel.  The only Zorn my girlfriend
>likes is the 'Chinatown" cut on the Naked City album.  She loves Bar Kokhba
>though - have you tried that?  I think she'd like the stuff live though 'cause
>she usually does.  She never liked David Murray 'til I took her to seem him in
>Boulder a few months ago.  But I'm not taking any chances for the Masada
>show - leaving her home so my buddies and I can enjoy th music we've been
>waiting years to hear live.

I used a few cuts from Bar Kochba to fill out the end of a tape of
Russian/Jewish folk songs for a my girlfriend's mother. She loves it. I
can't believe that Zorn has made a parent-friendly record. I suppose I'll
have to make her a Painkiller comp tape next...

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Susan Birkwood <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: _Live In China_ set
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:31:41 -0500 (EST)

Hey,

re: the Zorn/Eye 100 cd set, I read in WIRE that it was due out this
spring ('97)

Regards,
Chris Cole


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Greg Mills <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser, M.G.H.Z.A.
Date: 17 Nov 1996 14:32:58 -0700

 The most accesable and balanced Henry Kaiser CD I've come accross is "We
Hope You Like Our New Direction". It goes from blues, to weird Downtown
stuff, to a REALLY GOOD (this is not a joke) cover version of "Rock On".
Ibelieve it's on Restless Records.

I have this friend Grace who lives on Broadway in Oakland, CA and her
street number is the same as HK's address on Broadway Terrace, so she got
his mail a couple of times. Neat huh?

As for M.G.H.Z.A., my friend Mark's ex actually vomited listening to Naked
City. They were on a car trip and she said all that sudden " awfulstopping
and starting" gave her vertigo and she puked. Damn!

Greg



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 17 Nov 1996 18:20:59 -0500

There's a reissue of Outside Pleasures and Aloha called Outside Aloha
Pleasures.  It's on Atavistic, which is turning into quite an interesting
label.  Haven't actually heard the disc so i don't know if the two albums are
complete.

Lang Thompson

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Kevin Neales)
Date: 17 Nov 1996 20:40:52 -0500

I was checking out the imdb web site and ran Zorn's name.  They list a few
movies that he has composed music for that I haven't heard of.  They are
Thieve's Quartet, Hoelderlin Comics, Maoghai(aka Sadistic City).  Has
anybody seen any of these movies.   Are the available on video.




                                                        Kevin Neales
                                                        [e-mail]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: wrist slap and praise
Date: 17 Nov 1996 17:31:54 -0800 (PST)

    Attention Zorn-List Subscribers and Fellow Stamp Collectors


    A couple of reminders from your friendly list fascist
    (that's me) about a few peeves:

    1.  When you attribute (>) someone elses post: minimize (cut
        down) the attribution, remove the previous poster's
    signature line. Leave just enough to give context to
        your reply. DON'T ATTRIBUTE 100 LINES OF TEXT, THEN POST
    A TWO LINE COMMENT.  That is a true waste of bandwidth
    and disk space.

    2. Please only send simple text (ASCII), anything else
       can cause to your prose to be interspersed with funny
       symbols like ^t and =20 when read by others. European
       and Mac users take special note here.

    3. When sending a copy of private email to the list,
       please make sure that you remove the email headers.
       Not doing so has the unfortunate side effect of breaking
       the digest.

    4. The majordomo list server software will ONLY send messages
       to the zorn-list from a known subscriber. If you post
       from a different address than you originally subscribed
       then your messsages come to me rather than the list.
       Normally, this is a rare occurrence, but it has happened
       a real lot in the last week.

    Phewww! Boy can I blather a lot.  :)

    Now for da praise. It's great to see the increased quality
    and frequency of discussion of late. All 449 of you rule!
    Keep it up.


    cheers,
    mike rizzi

                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 18:11:18 -0800 (PST)

>>...Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels
>>he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from
>>anybody to release his music.

>I'm sure he doesn't need help.  I also suspect he enjoys releasing stuff on
>a variety of labels, perhaps to give collectors something to feel proud
>about.

    I'd be REALLY suprised that he gives two shits what
    collectors thinks. It's probably for more pragmatic
    reasons.

    I do know that every record label (even majors) have
    a limit on how many different recordings they can
    produce in a year. It's not like a record label
    has infinite resources.

    mike

                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 18:18:14 -0800 (PST)

>When in doubt, grab your sack and yell at the top of your lungs
>"My balls are humungus. They weigh twenty pounds. I like to rest them on
>my feet!!!"

    Now it's postings like this that make me
    proud to be associated with the zorn-list.

    standing ovation,
    rizzi


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: recordings for trade
Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:41:43 +1100 (EDT)

Howdy, I'm just wondering if any Uk subscribers to the list might have
copies of some BBC Radio 3 programs they wouldn't mind to dub for me.
I've got live recordings of Fred Frith, Robin Holcomb, the
Horvitz/ Morris/ Previte Trio (all from the Festival of Perth a few years
back), and John Rose and a bunch of crazies giving "Violin Music In The
Age Of Shopping" its Australian premiere; all from our own national
broadcaster that I can, at least, offer to trade.

OK, programs in questionn are John Zorn's discursion on the cartoon
scoring of Carl Stallings, "A Corny Concerto" (broadcast 18th Feb and
repeated on the 14th August this year) and "Mixing It" from the 15th of
July and 12th of August (with a live recording of the Otomo Yoshihide/
Steve Beresford Duo). Thanks much; meantime

go well, stay free...

Jim K

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 19:48:34 -0800 (PST)

On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote:

>     I do know that every record label (even majors) have
>     a limit on how many different recordings they can
>     produce in a year. It's not like a record label
>     has infinite resources.

on the other hand, there's Muslimguaze
who has been putting out at least one
CD a month lately... WUP.

obZorn: i noticed that the unofficial
Cadence web site hasn't been updated for
quite some time. is this going to change?
well, i read somewhere that
"More News For Lulu" is now out of print.
of course, i kept putting off purchase
of this CD and now i can't seem to locate
at any local record havens. yeah, yeah.
i know i'm being a lazy sod - i could
just head on down to the local Tower and
check the recent issue. does anyone know
if Cadence still has copies of this disc?
i suppose it's time to get a subscription
already..

anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was
astounding. was the multimedia barrage
something that Zorn wanted or normal fare
for the Maritime Hall?

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trespass
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:24:19 +1100 (EDT)

Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel
kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2
(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable
MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own
perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative). I neither expected
nor deserve this thanks, however: I'd been clued up by Phil Brophy, who
interviewed Zorn for the catalogue of the Kaboom! Explosive Animation From
Japan And America exhibition at the MCA in Sydney. I e-mailed Patrice
this info Friday, but until he can get around to striking me out, this
looks like the best place to assuage my conscience. Heck, far from
seeking self-aggrandisement, I was just looking to share this gem of
useless trivia. Anyways, I guess I'll have to be more careful next time.

go well, stay free...

Jim K

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik Adress
Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:51:24 -0800

Aaron J. Rabushka wrote:
>
> Does anybody have the snail-mail address for the Tzadik operation?

61 East Eighth Street, Suite 126, New York, NY 10003, USA.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 09:41:45 -0500 (EST)

Amen!

On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote:

> >When in doubt, grab your sack and yell at the top of your lungs
> >"My balls are humungus. They weigh twenty pounds. I like to rest them on
> >my feet!!!"
>
>     Now it's postings like this that make me
>     proud to be associated with the zorn-list.
>
>     standing ovation,
>     rizzi
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 18 Nov 1996 11:26:57 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> There's a reissue of Outside Pleasures and Aloha called Outside Aloha
> Pleasures.  It's on Atavistic, which is turning into quite an interesting
> label.  Haven't actually heard the disc so i don't know if the two albums are
> complete.

I agree that Atavistic is becoming very interesting but must interject
that OUTSIDE ALOHA PLEASURES is on Dexter's Cigar, the Drag City
offshoot run by Jim O'Rourke and David Grubbs.  The disc contains all
of the solo tracks from both albums, with none of the band tracks.

Regarding Henry:

HOPE YOU LIKE OUR NEW DIRECTION is a good intro to his work but
may be hard to find as the label is defunct.  LEMON FISH TWEEZER is
also a fine intro but for a similarly defunct label.  There have been
many many arguments about this next one, but I really love the sound of
WIREFORKS, the duet with Derek Bailey on Shanachie.  Less controversial
and just as beautiful is Henry's duet album with Jim O'Rourke
on Victo, TOMORROW KNOWS WHERE YOU LIVE.  There is some
good music to be found on ETERNITY BLUE, Henry's all Grateful Dead
covers album on Shanachie (particularly a romping "Blues for Allah"
with pianist Marilyn Crispell), but I would advise avoiding the band
SECOND SIGHT (Shanachie) unless you're really into the Dead... it's
much closer to their bag than Henry's.  Finally, although it's
only tangentally Henry's music, I am extremely fond of WORLD OUT OF
TIME VOL. 1 (Shanachie), the first of the Kaiser/David Lindley albums
recorded in Madagascar.  Those who love it are encouraged to hear
the subsequent two volumes, but the first is plenty for the casual fan.
There is some interesting music in the Kaiser/Lindley albums from
Norway, THE SWEET SUNNY NORTH v. 1 & 2, but not much playing from
Henry.

Steve Smith
(not in any way associated with Shanachie's publicity department)
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:27:58 -0500

Kaiser's work falls into two main categories- His avant-garde stuff and
a host of more rock-n-roll oriented matierial. For the more experimental
works, I'd recommend starting with "The Five Heavenly Truths" on FOT
records, or "Lemon Fish Tweezer" on Cunieform if you just want solo
guitar improvs. In his "rock star guitar god" style, I'd go for "Those
who know History are Doomed to Repeat It" on SST- get the CD, it has
bonus tracks. The album consists mostly of Grateful Dead and Captain
Beefheart covers, with a couple oddities like the "Theme from the Andy
Griffith Show" thrown in for good fun. His guitar work is MIND-NUMBING
on this album. And what a band! Joey Baron on the drums, Hank Roberts on
the cello, and so many more I'm not even going to bother listing them.
The 40+ minute version of "Dark Star" is one of the spookiest songs I
own, and it never fails to give Dead-heads a good scare!

            -Seth Gordon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800

At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel
>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2
>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable
>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own
>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative).

"Lesser" in what sense?

Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here?

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 18 Nov 1996 12:40:26 -0800

> I'd recommend starting with "The Five Heavenly Truths" on FOT
> records, or "Lemon Fish Tweezer" on Cunieform if you just want solo
> guitar improvs.

Aw, geez.  Seth has just pointed out the error in my Kaiser post.
Cuneiform is most certainly not defunct.  I was in fact thinking of THE
FIVE HEAVENLY TRUTHS on FOT.  I tend to lump those two records together,
they "feel" similar to me and are both recommended.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: 11/15/96
Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:38:09 -0800 (PST)

Hello all in Zornland-
Ok, so those who saw the maritime hall masada show must have noticed
this-
        Joey Baron...World's HAPPIEST Drummer!!!!!
Josh Martin


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: What is Bible Launcher?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:45:36 -0800


On Mon Nov 18 09:49 GMT 1996  "Newcombe, Andrew" wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me anything about Bible Launcher?  Who plays on the CD?
>  What sort of Music is it ?  Any reviews?

Hooker 99 is the only name I recognized. It is a really twisted record
that should appeal to Mr Bungle's audience (not straight rock, fairly
theatrical, unpredictable, irreverentious, etc).

As far as I know, the record has been removed from stores. The record
should be reissued next year after cutting some parts (to avoid some
possible lawsuits).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: West coast Masada
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:11:50 +0100 (MET)

Who plays in the west coast Masada?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: West coast Masada
Date: 18 Nov 1996 12:28:06 -0800


On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:11:50 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:
>
> Who plays in the west coast Masada?

Ben Goldberg (cl), Trevor Dunn (b), Kenny Wollesen (dr).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:27:03 -0500 (EST)


Actualy, i remember hearing on this list that there's only going to be 2
hours of music on the whole thing...


On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

> it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room.
> If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know
> whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them.
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
>
> > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye?
> > What's that sound like?
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it.
> > >
> > > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live
> > > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that
> > > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is...
> > >
> > > Jonas
> > >
> >
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Naked City as Purgative
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:37:32 -0500 (EST)

> As for M.G.H.Z.A., my friend Mark's ex actually vomited listening to Naked
> City. They were on a car trip and she said all that sudden " awfulstopping
> and starting" gave her vertigo and she puked. Damn!

Did you keep it and send some to John Zorn?  I'd treasure it, if i were
him - you can't more harcore than that  ;)

-jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ultra-hip super 90's wired cyber-Masada for the information age?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:45:56 -0500 (EST)

>
> anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was
> astounding. was the multimedia barrage
> something that Zorn wanted or normal fare
> for the Maritime Hall?

eh?  What did the barrage consist of, i'm really curious.  The two shows
i saw last year at the knit were just four guys playing some of the best
music in the cosmos - very simple.  I'd have an extremmely hard time
imagining a multimedia barrage that wasn't somehow annoying to music
fans, although i'm willing to admit that it could happen.  Did it work?

-jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: John Oswald
Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:04:07 -0500 (EST)


Has anybody heard John Oswald's plunderphonic versions of Naked City's
music?  They're probably brilliant, but i think they only came with some
new-music magazine which comes out once a year or so.  I'd like to hear
them, too, so if you have them and feel like being nice, i'll send you a
tape and postage...

-jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:27:29 -0700

>  i read somewhere that
> "More News For Lulu" is now out of print.
...
> check the recent issue. does anyone know
> if Cadence still has copies of this disc?

it's not in the Nov 96 issue.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Subject madness...
Date: 18 Nov 1996 23:38:49 +0200 (GMT+0200)


Thanks for all of you for cheering my day... or night (it=ABs 23:30 here):

Oh joy!

(quoting from a recent message=ABs header)
-----
     <[e-mail]>
Cc: a record swap meet full of stamp collectors <[e-mail]>
-----

What are you guys/gals on? Just kiddin=AB...


 teemu


-------------
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: West coast Masada
Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:43:39 -0700

> > Who plays in the west coast Masada?
>
> Ben Goldberg (cl), Trevor Dunn (b), Kenny Wollesen (dr).
>
well, this is only partially accurate. Masada has played out here in several
incarnations, including the one above, but also including douglas/
wolleson/ dunn/ zorn  and the DIW line-up
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: West coast Masada
Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:40:30 -0800 (PST)

I just saw them friday, and they had the lineup from albums 1-6.  Cohen,
Douglas, And Baron (happiest gut I've ever seen).  Is this just for the
tour?  I saw them a long time ago in San Francisco, and they had
goldberg, Dunn, and KEN.  Did it change at all?


On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
> On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:11:50 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:
> >
> > Who plays in the west coast Masada?
>
> Ben Goldberg (cl), Trevor Dunn (b), Kenny Wollesen (dr).
>
>     Patrice.
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ultra-hip super 90's wired cyber-Masada for the information age?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:43:35 -0800 (PST)

it was more like a bunch of video clips from stray documentaries from
National Geographic fed through some video effects.  I'm guessing that
masada didn't bring them.  Especially when they started to poke fun at
them.  Joey Baron pulled out a conga beat to some wierd lady gyrating at
Stonehenge.  I think the visual display was compliments of the house.


On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:

> >
> > anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was
> > astounding. was the multimedia barrage
> > something that Zorn wanted or normal fare
> > for the Maritime Hall?
>
> eh?  What did the barrage consist of, i'm really curious.  The two shows
> i saw last year at the knit were just four guys playing some of the best
> music in the cosmos - very simple.  I'd have an extremmely hard time
> imagining a multimedia barrage that wasn't somehow annoying to music
> fans, although i'm willing to admit that it could happen.  Did it work?
>
> -jascha
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Adress
Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:44:24 -0800 (PST)

that really sounds pointless.


On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:

>
> Actualy, i remember hearing on this list that there's only going to be 2
> hours of music on the whole thing...
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room.
> > If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know
> > whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
> >
> > > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye?
> > > What's that sound like?
> > >
> > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live
> > > > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that
> > > > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is...
> > > >
> > > > Jonas
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:53:53 -0800 (PST)

>On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote:
>
>>     I do know that every record label (even majors) have
>>     a limit on how many different recordings they can
>>     produce in a year. It's not like a record label
>>     has infinite resources.

SUGAR in their vitamins?, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>on the other hand, there's Muslimguaze
>who has been putting out at least one
>CD a month lately... WUP.

    I'm not sure how that constitutes an
    "on the other hand." Tzadik alone has
    been releasing 30-40 CD's a year!

>anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was
>astounding.

    It twas most awesome. The deep
    bass ambient piece (2nd song)
    and the high speed accelerating
    songs blew my freakin' head off.

>was the multimedia barrage
>something that Zorn wanted or normal fare
>for the Maritime Hall?

    I can't speak for da man, but the
    fact that zorn, douglas and baron
    were making fun of the visuals
    leads me to believe, it wasn't
    their idea.

    Maritime Hall is booked by Family
    Dog productions, who are loosely
    connected to the whole Haight-Ashbury
    Grateful Dead scene...hence the
    hideous colored oil and water
    light show.

    ug.

    mike

                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: SF Masada, 11/15/96
Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:40:02 EDT

>The multimedia barrage consisted of video images projected in four places on
>the walls surrounding the stage, but thankfully above stage level. There were
>also overhead projectors superimposing liquidy visuals better suited to
>progrock. The content ranged from very pedestrian psychedelics to belly
dancing
>to grass chewing plains animals. There were brief images of what might have
>been a hebrew ritual but otherwise it was horrible and nothing that Zorn could
>have wanted.
>
>What about this long hair?
>
>The music was astounding. Further evidence that Zorn can do close to no wrong.
>Hopefully, this Masada project, or some incarnation of it, will last. As a
>vehicle for displaying his skills as an arranger, as well as his melodic and
>harmonic ability, I think Masada is unparalleled.
>
>Forget happy. Joey Baron, the world's most dynamic drummer.
>
>Apologies for any formatting snafus, I'm new at all this.
>
>Sam Jenniches, via the above address.
>ps. thanks rizzi. typed a little too much.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: avant classical
Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:50:24 EDT

A couple of years back I talked to Zorn about classical influences on his
music.
I'm interested in what others might suggest along the lines of Kagel, Scelsi,
Stockhausen, etc. And the possibility of swapping tapes.

Sam Jenniches via Leon Lee

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walter M. Young" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Guitar Listservs/Kaiser Lyme
Date: 18 Nov 1996 19:53:16 -0500

I've been reveling in number of postings about some of my favorite =
guitarists, but I've reluctant to join in because I believe that this =
may be a bit of a digression from the purpose of this list.  Is/are =
there any other good source(s) for discussion on the likes of Kaiser, =
Frith, Frisell, Torn, Sharrock, Ulmer, etc...  After all, if it hadn't =
been for a healthy diet of guitar noise over the years I probably would =
have never developed an appreciation for Zorn's attack on aesthetics.

Continuing on the recent flurry of postings regarding Henry Kaiser, I've =
been unable to get any information regarding whether contracting Lyme =
Disease has affected his playing.  He failed to make a performance last =
January at Knitting Factory with Joe Gallant's Illumati.  He had sent a =
fax to the club stating that he was unable to play due to having =
contracted Lyme Disease.  Considering the possible neurological =
complications of this disease the impact on his playing could be =
profound.  I hope someone out there can assure me that things are going =
well.  I posted a request for info on the jazz guitar news group once =
and merely got responses of "Who's he?"


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Cuneiform lives!
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:08:23 -0500

 Steve Smith <[e-mail]>

write re: Henry Kaiser:
>HOPE YOU LIKE OUR NEW DIRECTION is a good intro to his work but
>may be hard to find as the label is defunct.  LEMON FISH TWEEZER is
>also a fine intro but for a similarly defunct label.

Uhhh. Excuse me, but Lemon Fish Tweezer is on the Cuneiform label (Cuneiform
Rune 45) which I own & run & take out the garbage for. I would hasten to
assure all 449 of you that Cuneiform is alive & reasonably well [even if we
don't have ANYTHING by J.Z. on our label!  ;-)], & would beg Mr. Smith not to
spread rumors of our demise.

Thank you.

Steve Feigenbaum
Cuneiform Records


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walter M. Young" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Guitar lists/Kaiser lyme
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:12:05 -0500

I've been reveling in number of postings about some of my favorite
guitarists, but I've reluctant to join in because I believe that this
may be a bit of a digression from the purpose of this list.  Is/are
there any other good source(s) for discussion on the likes of Kaiser,
Frith, Frisell, Torn, Sharrock, Ulmer, etc...  After all, if it hadn't
been for a healthy diet of guitar noise over the years I probably would
have never developed an appreciation for Zorn's attack on aesthetics.

Continuing on the recent flurry of postings regarding Henry Kaiser, I've
been unable to get any information regarding whether contracting Lyme
Disease has affected his playing.  He failed to make a performance last
January at Knitting Factory with Joe Gallant's Illumati.  He had sent a
fax to the club stating that he was unable to play due to having
contracted Lyme Disease.  Considering the possible neurological
complications of this disease the impact on his playing could be
profound.  I hope someone out there can assure me that things are going
well.  I posted a request for info on the jazz guitar news group once
and merely got responses of "Who's he?"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:31:00 -0800 (PST)

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote:

>     I'm not sure how that constitutes an
>     "on the other hand." Tzadik alone has
>     been releasing 30-40 CD's a year!

Tzadik is a label, releasing many
different artist's works. one would expect
as many releases in a year. on the
other hand... Muslimguaze is just one
guy, releasing many albums per year.
he originally wanted a contract to
release 30 CDs a year!

>     I can't speak for da man, but the
>    fact that zorn, douglas and baron
>     were making fun of the visuals
>     leads me to believe, it wasn't
>     their idea.

ah, well... up on the balcony, we
couldn't exactly make out what they
were doing to such detail.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: SF Masada, 11/15/96
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:38:26 -0800 (PST)

On 18 Nov 1996, Leon Lee/SYBASE wrote:

>There were brief images of what might have been a hebrew ritual

it was a clip of orthodox jews
praying at the wailing wall.

> but otherwise it was horrible and nothing that Zorn could
>have wanted.

i liked the clip of tribesman performing
a ke-chack ceremony. :)

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cuneiform lives!
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:38:47 -0800


    Steve,

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:08:23 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>  Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
>
> write re: Henry Kaiser:
> >HOPE YOU LIKE OUR NEW DIRECTION is a good intro to his work but
> >may be hard to find as the label is defunct.  LEMON FISH TWEEZER is
> >also a fine intro but for a similarly defunct label.
>
> Uhhh. Excuse me, but Lemon Fish Tweezer is on the Cuneiform label (Cuneiform
> Rune 45) which I own & run & take out the garbage for. I would hasten to
> assure all 449 of you that Cuneiform is alive & reasonably well [even if we
> don't have ANYTHING by J.Z. on our label!  ;-)], & would beg Mr. Smith not to
> spread rumors of our demise.

Steve just made a mistake that he acknowledged. We *ALL* know that Cuneiform
is alive! And we all know the great job you are doing.

    Patrice.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ultra-hip super 90's wired cyber-Masada for the information age?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:40:24 -0800 (PST)

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote:

> Did it work?

overall, i found it too distracting
for me, but it had its moments - both
humorous and interesting.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "George Curran <GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: post Masada in Boston
Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:10:07 -0800

I realize this is the Zorn list.  While I went to the ICA to listen to Zorn
and Douglas, I think any discussion of Masada that does not start with the
rhythm section is inadequate misses the essence of this band.  I am, of
course, quite familiar with Baron's work, but Cohen is new to me.  Can anyone
fill me in on who else he has worked with, as I would like to hear other
examples of his work, especially in a small group context.  Thanks.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "George Curran <GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:12:36 -0800

<<well, i read somewhere that "More News For Lulu" is now out of print.>>

I think the story on that one is that hatArt is no longer pressing new copies
of their backlist, but there are enough copies of everything out there so that
availability should not be an issue.  I have not had any problem finding any
hatArt discs I really wanted; moreover I only recently bought "News for Lulu."



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (m. rizzi)
Subject: Mr. Bungle Show in S.F.
Date: 18 Nov 1996 18:08:35 -0800 (PST)


    For folks in the San Fransisco area, I just
    heard that Mr. Bungle are playing two gigs
    at Slims on Nov 25th and 26th. It will be
    great to see them in a smaller venue.

    rizzi

                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"              -=home=-
                      http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barry Gilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: _Live In China_ set
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:44:26 -0700

>>
>>>With regard to the Zorn / Eye CD set, i regret to inform you that this
>>>project has now been postponed until further notice; probably early next
>>>spring.  Anyway, i'll keep you posted on the progress.  Lastly, i would
>>>like to thank you for your interest and support on this project.
>>

I spoke with Zorn at last night's show in Boulder.  He said this set would
be delayed until probably the fall.  He also said that the shortest CD's
would be about one second long.

Alas, there was no interview.  He didn't have time.  However, the show was
terrific. There were many tune I recognized and a few I did not.  I was
surprised at how much he directs the playing of the group members.
Sometimes he would tell Joey what kind of sticks to use. One time, during a
bass solo, he seemed to be telling Joey to not play the cymbals, just drums.
After the show, he came out to sign autographs. (He signed my copy of the JZ
Radio Hour!) He was very nice and appreciative of the adulation.  He stayed
for about ten minutes and chatted with the few of us who remained.  Off to
Vermont!

Barry Gilbert
Boulder, Colorado


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mr R Teh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Guitar Listservs/Kaiser Lyme
Date: 19 Nov 1996 15:49:12 +1100 (EST)


>ssion from the purpose of this list.  Is/are there any other good
source(s) for
>discussion on the likes of Kaiser, Frith, Frisell, Torn, Sharrock,
Ulmer, etc...
There is a mailing list dedicated to David Torn. In fact David himself
contributes regularly to the list. Admin info as follow:

  To leave / join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue,
    please send electronic mail to Door X at the following address:
      [e-mail]

    You can contact the editor (Pete Cole) directly at the following address:
      [e-mail], or through the SSEYO Koan website at
      http://www.sseyo.com ...


Take care
Regards,
Richie Teh
Maintainer of Drumnet
http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet
Email: [e-mail] or [e-mail]

*Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more
 infor :-)
** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the
   survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!!
   Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trespass
Date: 19 Nov 1996 16:41:58 +1100 (EDT)

18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800, Jeff Spirer writes:
>At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel
>>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2
>>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable
>>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own
>>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative).
>
>"Lesser" in what sense?
>
>Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here?

Well, unnh, I'm less interested in "prayer" than in music (perhaps
you made a wrong choice of vocation). While Cooder and Zorn both recorded
effective scores for the film (perhaps), Zorn's piece is - to me at least
- far more interesting than Cooder's as a piece of music per se. Like most
of Zorn's work - and almost none of Cooder's - there's a formal experiment
happening here. Zorn uses those hillbilly strings to reference Hill's
"Deliverance", and evoke the white trash millieu of "Trespass"'s protagonists.
He uses the world music elements to describe that 'Heart of Darkness'
that is the urban american ghetto. I could go on.

Ultimately; my understanding of Cooder's brief is that he was asked to
record a "lesser" (i.e "watered-down") version of Zorn's score.

go well, stay free...

Jim K

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 19 Nov 1996 00:46:16 -0500

*****  While FOT may be defunct in the technical sense, their releases are
still available from Ponk, the Kaiser included.  (And after misattributing
that other album to Atavistic, you may be wise to doubt my word.)

Lang Thompson


In a message dated 96-11-18 11:38:20 EST, [e-mail] (Steve Smith)
writes:

<< Aw, geez.  Seth has just pointed out the error in my Kaiser post.
 Cuneiform is most certainly not defunct.  I was in fact thinking of THE
 FIVE HEAVENLY TRUTHS on FOT.   >>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Song-Poem Website
Date: 19 Nov 1996 01:01:27 -0500

Thought some of you Rodd Keith fans might be interested.  It's at
http://www.channel1.com/users/fxxm/

Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: I was wondering...
Date: 19 Nov 1996 00:57:10 -0800 (PST)

Does anyone know anything about the possibility of there being another
Painkiller album one day?  I know zorn & laswell are probably the 2
busiest people on the planet, but have they scrapped the project, or will
it surface again?  Anyone?
J.M.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser
Date: 19 Nov 1996 10:55:19 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> *****  While FOT may be defunct in the technical sense, their releases are
> still available from Ponk, the Kaiser included.  (And after misattributing
> that other album to Atavistic, you may be wise to doubt my word.)

Aw, hey, not me.  Not after accidentally proclaiming Cuneiform dead! :)
But yes, you raise a point I'd forgotten.  I'd heard about Ponk from
Henry a while back but totally spaced.

And in continuing to do penance to Cuneiform, I'd also like to mention
one more recent Kaiser disc worth checking out.  THE SIAMESE STEPBROTHERS
(Cuneiform Rune 72, 1995) is quite the interesting record... it pairs
Henry with Bruce Anderson (whom I believe is formerly of MX-80 Sound...
anyone care to confirm?), early Grateful Dead keyboardist Tom Constanten,
drummer Lukas Ligeti (son of the famous Hungarian composer I think)
and bassist Dale Sophiea.  Remarkably cliche-free drum, inventive
guitar playing, and an eclectic selection of tunes ranging from
free improvs to Miles Davis's "Agharta Prelude," Sonny Sharrock's
"Blind Willie" and a Tom Constanten solo performance of Scriabin's
Etude for Piano, Op. 42, No. 3 (which fits nicely into recent
discussion of the classical pieces on GRAND GUIGNOL).  Some of it
reminds me of Crazy Backwards Alphabet... some doesn't.

Henry also has a new band with last of the Zappa Band stunt guitarists
Mike Kenneally, but I haven't heard it and can't remember the details.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: slawlor <[e-mail]>
Subject: first exposure
Date: 19 Nov 1996 11:07:28 -0500 (EST)

>Hi there.  I'm not sure if I shared this with you guys or not, so if I
>have, please forgive the repetition.
>The first time I ever heard John Zorn was in 1989 on a public radio
>station, though I didn't know who it was until 6 years later.  I heard
>this really wacked out piece with screaming, mumbling voices, and a ton
>of changes in the piece.  It was around 25 minutes long or so, and the
>only thing I remember about the piece other than the craziness, was that
>it had something to do with Mike Hammer.  I recorded the piece, but
>didn't catch what the announcer had said about the song on tape.  I gave
>it to a friend of mine, and 5 or 6 years later, I was visiting him and we
>found this thing and started listening to it.  "I still don't know what
>the hell this thing is, and I'm not sure how to find out." I had said to
>him.
>well, I got an internet account and left a note on rec.music.newage
>giving a description of the song and what I remember the announcer saying
>about it.  For some reason, I thought I remember him saying it was on
>Windham Hill. (I know, you're all rolling on the floor laughing right
>about now. haha)
>I got a response back a few days later saying that it was a piece called
>Spilaine on Nunsuch by John Zorn.  So, I got it and that's how I heard
>about John Zorn.  A friend of mine, when I told him that it was Zorn who
>did that crazy song said that Zorn was probably the electronic equivilent
>to Cecil Taylor.  Is he right about that do you think?  Well, that's my
>story.  Bye.


scott K. Lawlor
3358 Prange Dr.
Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223
Phone, 330-922-4895
http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: first exposure
Date: 19 Nov 1996 08:50:23 -0800


On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:07:28 -0500 (EST)  slawlor wrote:
>
> >Hi there.  I'm not sure if I shared this with you guys or not, so if I
> >have, please forgive the repetition.
> >The first time I ever heard John Zorn was in 1989 on a public radio
> >station, though I didn't know who it was until 6 years later.  I heard
> >this really wacked out piece with screaming, mumbling voices, and a ton
> >of changes in the piece.  It was around 25 minutes long or so, and the
> >only thing I remember about the piece other than the craziness, was that
> >it had something to do with Mike Hammer.  I recorded the piece, but
> >didn't catch what the announcer had said about the song on tape.  I gave
> >it to a friend of mine, and 5 or 6 years later, I was visiting him and we
> >found this thing and started listening to it.  "I still don't know what
> >the hell this thing is, and I'm not sure how to find out." I had said to
> >him.
> >well, I got an internet account and left a note on rec.music.newage
                                ^^^^^^

Definitely the news group where to post such enquiry :-).

> >giving a description of the song and what I remember the announcer saying
> >about it.  For some reason, I thought I remember him saying it was on
> >Windham Hill. (I know, you're all rolling on the floor laughing right
> >about now. haha)
> >I got a response back a few days later saying that it was a piece called
> >Spilaine on Nunsuch by John Zorn.  So, I got it and that's how I heard
> >about John Zorn.  A friend of mine, when I told him that it was Zorn who
> >did that crazy song said that Zorn was probably the electronic equivilent
> >to Cecil Taylor.  Is he right about that do you think?  Well, that's my
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >story.  Bye.

And Zorn barely touches any electronic equipment... It makes you wonder if
people really listen to (or maybe they think that making a good statement is more
important as providing a good description).

    Patrice.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Morris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stuttgart, Germany
Date: 19 Nov 1996 12:49:06 -0500 (EST)

Hi. I will be spending some time in Stuttgart this December on business. Does anyone know of any good used record stores ( preferably vinyl ) but cd as well in the Stuttgart area? I collect "avant garde" jazz - stuff like Braxton, AEC, Cecil Taylor, Tim Berne, etc. Also, does anyone knw if there are any good jazz clubs in the Stuttgart area?
Thanks
- Jeff   [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: -No Subject-
Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:14:13 EDT

>The multimedia barrage consisted of video images projected in four places on
>the walls surrounding the stage, but thankfully above stage level. There were
>also overhead projectors superimposing liquidy visuals better suited to
>progrock. The content ranged from very pedestrian psychedelics to belly
dancing
>to grass chewing plains animals. There were brief images of what might have
>been a hebrew ritual but otherwise it was horrible and nothing that Zorn could
>have wanted.
>
>What about this long hair?
>
>The music was astounding. Further evidence that Zorn can do no wrong.
>Hopefully, this Masada project, or some incarnation of it, will last. As a
>vehicle for displaying his skills as an arranger, as well as his melodic and
>harmonic ability, I think Masada is unparalleled.
>
>Forget happy. Joey Baron, the world's most dynamic drummer.
>
>Apologies for any formatting snafus, I'm new at all this.
>
>Sam Jenniches, via the above address.
>ps. thanks rizzi. typed a little too much.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marcus Klein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Tzadiks, Masada 7, Bailey's jungle record
Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:32:54 EST

>>Consumer buying tip: for those of you living in and about NYC,
>>the Knitting Factory has copies of the new Tzadik CDs (well,
>>the two Zorn releases anyway, not sure about the others),
>>Masada 7 on DIW, and the Derek Bailey jungle record on Avant.

Hi there !

This Bailey record is it really Drum'n'Bass ?
And how is it done, "real" instruments or just samples ?

Thanx,

Marcus Klein


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new Tzadiks, Masada 7, Bailey's jungle record
Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:51:47 -0500

<<This Bailey record is it really Drum'n'Bass ?
And how is it done, "real" instruments or just samples ?>>

Derek's really playing (maybe I should say he's actually playing) and the
drum'n'bass is supplied by a DJ. IMHO, after a listen or two, I didn't like
it at all. I love Bailey's work in a lot of contexts, but it was tough for me
to concentrate on it here with the mediocre, generic beats being laid down
behind it.

If you're interested in Bailey: Try Aida (solo), Dart Drug, Village Life, the
one with the Ruins (Saisoro?), the Emanem release with Braxton, etc. Pretty
much try any other release he's been on before this one.

If you're interested in jungle: the Metalheadz compilation, the Photek EP, A
Guy Called Gerald-Black Secret Technology. Any of these may make you see what
the fuss is about. But don't listen to the Bailey record and dismiss the
jungle genre because of it.

Zorn's Filmworks V, on the other hand, is superb. Forty-plus short pieces for
a film by a Japanese gay porn director with a band of Zorn, Marc Ribot,
Robert Quine, and Cyro Baptista. Great variety, great music.

Jon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James L. Kirchmer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Atavistic label / 100 Cd's?!?! / Masada 11/16
Date: 19 Nov 1996 13:00:22 -0800

Hello there -
a few things I'd like to mention:

- is the adventurous Ken Vandermark still going to release (or has
  he already?) the debut of his "Vandermark 5" group on Atavistic?
  This guy is goin' places.....

- I wonder if any crazed Zorn/Eye fan will go so far as to purchase
  one of those 100+ Cd changers that have emerged in the recent past
  and devote it solely to the upcoming box set.
  Now that would be something.(!)
  The one second cd's could be played in succession.
  Hell, the whole thing could be listened to in sequence!!!!!!!

- Saw Masada here in Seattle on 11/16.(big crowd, nice ballroom)
  Loved the funky bass driven tune they played in the first set.
  (can't recall the title, but classically 'funky' - similar to
   something Chris Wood might play on his bass with MMW...)
  Joey Baron was really out of hand.  Heck, the best aspect of
  the show for me was listening to the rhythm section take its
  turn - while Douglas & Zorn rested.....moreover, the 1st set
  Ornette cover they did was really cool as well - and:
  The REALLY mellow tune they played in the first set was cool.
  (by far the mellowest thing they did.  It was laid back(!)...)
  The second set was nice as the amplification was turned up a
  notch. The bass was not hitting home in the back of the room
  during the first set.  (gotta have that fat sound!)
  Well, I wish I knew the titles of these tunes...I'll have to
  listen to my Masada recordings & find 'em.  The funky tune
  sounds better than it did when I saw it last year, this same
  month, at New York City's Town Hall.  That Masada show PALES
  in comparison to what I just saw a year later.  Then again,
  Masada did not headline that show(opened for John Lurie).

Well, enough said...
- james kirchmer
--
Overheard at a funeral - "...She was in the middle of yet another
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
one of her desperate attempts to convince me of the existence of
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
psychic powers when, quite to my surprise, I willed a bookcase to
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fall on her." - copyright Dan Piraro 1996 - 'Bizarro' comic strip


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Atavistic label / 100 Cd's?!?! / Masada 11/16
Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:09:44 -0800


On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:00:22 -0800  "James L. Kirchmer" wrote:
>
> - I wonder if any crazed Zorn/Eye fan will go so far as to purchase
>   one of those 100+ Cd changers that have emerged in the recent past
>   and devote it solely to the upcoming box set.
>   Now that would be something.(!)
>   The one second cd's could be played in succession.
>   Hell, the whole thing could be listened to in sequence!!!!!!!

I was thinking about something else: one sacrifices himself by
buying the 100xCD set and somebody else put it on a 2xCD set.
This operation would have the following advantages:

    - easier to manage than 100 x CDs
    - less expensive
    - less roomy
    - easier to justify in front of suspicious girl/boyfriends
    - less embarrassing to own
    - less waisted money if you happen to hate the 100xCD set
    - more environment correct (less barrels of oil slaughtered
      for the operation)

We could make it a special limited edition for readers of the
mailing list only :-).

    Patrice (joking).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Wilson, King of Prussia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Atavistic label / 100 Cd's?!?! / Masada 11/16
Date: 19 Nov 1996 17:11:23 -0600

>Hello there -
>a few things I'd like to mention:
>
>- is the adventurous Ken Vandermark still going to release (or has
>  he already?) the debut of his "Vandermark 5" group on Atavistic?
>  This guy is goin' places.....

  Finally, a mention of Vandermark on this list.  For those of you who
don't know, he plays virtually 2 or 3 gigs a week here in Chicago.  His
bands play under various names (Vandermark 5, Steam, NRG Ensemble, i
believe Caffeine is another one)    They are always great, and usually in
some of the smallest rooms in town.  His current fave seems to be the Lunar
Caberet, which has a seating area of about 25.
  The Vandermark 5 would probably be called his main band at the moment,
now that the Vandermark Quartet is no more.   The best reason to see the 5
is the pairing of him and Mars Williams, another screaming sax player
around town.  Williams fronts Liquid Soul, an acid jazz quartet who you
will probably be hearing the name of sometime soon, cause they are getting
pretty large

  Anyone pick up any of the many new releases today? a journey to my local
record store saw me picking up Axiom Dub, which I am listening to now.
It's pretty good, and the tracks by the Orb and Material are Awesome.....
  Filmworks VI and the latest Scorn coming up.....

  Whoever talks to zorn tonight, tell him to bring that Masada thing of his
back to Chicago.  it's getting lonely up here.....

























                                read icculus



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 19 Nov 1996 18:35:01 -0500

Some of you may notice large earplugs in Joey's ears as he plays...well i
have an amusing story to tell re: a near catastrophic event that occured the
morning after Masada played here in Boston.  I was assisting with this gig,
and when I showed up at 7am to take the band to the airport for their 8:30
flight, the guys (minus Zorn who was staying at another hotel) were frantic
as Joey was not up yet, and no one knew his room number!  Of course, Greg has
an upright bass and needed to arrive at the airport early to ensure it's safe
handling, etc, and the front desk guy didn't come on duty until 8am!
 Fortunately, when we went to pick up John, HE had the room number and phone
number and gave a little wake up call, to which Joey eventually DID
hear...But those earplugs nearly cost our Ohio friends a date with the great
Masada...what a shame that would have been, as they rocked the house in
Boston!  Great guys, too, I must say.  It was a real pleasure to work with
these remarkable musicians.
     If anybody is operating a jack hammer on a construction crew, get a hold
of Joey...he's got some killer plugs to sell ya.

Jonathan LaMaster

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barry Gilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 19 Nov 1996 19:47:59 -0700

At 06:35 PM 11/19/96 -0500, you wrote:

>flight, the guys (minus Zorn who was staying at another hotel) were frantic

Huh? Does he want to be far away or does he want a better hotel?


Barry Gilbert
Boulder, Colorado


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:26:59 -0500

In a message dated 96-11-19 18:41:38 EST, [e-mail] writes:

>      If anybody is operating a jack hammer on a construction crew, get a
> hold
>  of Joey...he's got some killer plugs to sell ya.
>

Thats funny!  You know, when Masada played the Knit back in April, for the
first night or two,  Joey was wearing gun muffs.  He must have misplaced his
ear plugs.  And I was sitting right in front of them, thinking, "this isnt
that loud".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 20 Nov 1996 06:30:39 -0800

I had pretty much the same reaction, "huh??"  Maybe it is just a reflexive
response on Joey's part as I gather, from some of the reports I have read,
that Masada regularly plays much larger rooms than they played in Boston.  In
fact, when Cohen's amp died, during the second set, I had no trouble hearing
him from the next to last row in the room.  This was one of the quietest jazz
shows I have heard in quite some time.

Maybe Joey played in too many heavy metal bands in his younger days?



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jungle (was Re: ...Bailey's jungle record)
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:02:00 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:

> I love Bailey's work in a lot of contexts, but it was tough for me
> to concentrate on it here with the mediocre, generic beats being laid down
> behind it.[snip] But don't listen to the Bailey record and dismiss the
> jungle genre because of it.

Jon raises an interesting quandry which I wanted to chew on for awhile
before responding.  The Derek Bailey CD was, in fact, one of my first
experiences with so-called jungle.  And frankly I didn't see what all
the fuss was about (especially in light of all the rhapsodizing in
The Wire about certain jungle practitioners).

I then tried a pair of the more highly praised jungle releases (it's
also called drums'n'bass to avoid the racial perjorative that jungle
implies), the Photek EP and the new Spring Heel Jack album.  My first
thought was that the whole genre strikes me as rather empty and
unfulfilling.  The music serves as little more than background, even
with its extremely clever manipulation of rapid pulse.  Photek seemed
the more interesting of the two, with an acoustic bass sound to it
and a pretty interesting sense of shifting time.  Spring Heel Jack,
which has grown on me somewhat, still largely feels like simple
dance music with sounds borrowed from disco and, dare I say it, lounge
music.

Taken in light of these, Derek's album actually seems to make a bit
more sense to me.  Remember that the initial idea for the pairing
wasn't some lark of Zorn's but rather that Derek practices to jungle
music on British radio.  DJ Ninj's stripping of the ornate surface
tendencies of jungle sides down to the rhythmic minimum would thus
seem to be truer to what Derek himself must be hearing and interacting
with.  Having listened to the disc really loud in the car on the way
in to work this morning, I also think that, for all the repetition,
Ninj is actually a lot more subtle and varied than I'd initially
given him credit for.  And of course Derek's own playing is monstrous
and razor-sharp.  Don't give up on this one yet!

If I'm inclined to dismiss jungle, it's because it still feels to me
like background pulse and color but with no real musical interest in
the foreground.  Interestingly enough, I discussed just that with
Bobby Previte yesterday and he stated that he thinks the growing
popularity of jungle is due to the notion that music serves a different
purpose today than in the past, and that it exists primarily as an
adjunct to everyday life... that people no longer listen to music
(at least today's music) to gain any information about themselves or
the world, but rather as an accessory to other experiences and
activities.  I know I'm not really doing Bobby's statement justice,
that's just the best way I can try to summarize what he was saying.
But he mentioned that there was at least one specific part in his new
"Too Close to the Pole," where he's playing rapid sixteenth notes
against a slowly moving chordal background, that was specifically
influenced by jungle.

Talking too damn much,
Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Frankco Lamerikx)
Subject: Re: Jungle (was Re: ...Bailey's jungle record)
Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:59:26 +0100 (MET)

While it is entirely off the subject, I feel inclined to add some thought to
this discussion. Even though I am by no means a specialist in the field.

> My first
> thought was that the whole genre strikes me as rather empty and
> unfulfilling.  The music serves as little more than background, even
> with its extremely clever manipulation of rapid pulse.  Photek seemed
> the more interesting of the two, with an acoustic bass sound to it
> and a pretty interesting sense of shifting time.  Spring Heel Jack,
> which has grown on me somewhat, still largely feels like simple
> dance music with sounds borrowed from disco and, dare I say it, lounge
> music.

Jungle, or drum 'n bass as its favored name is here in Europe, takes a somewhat
awkward position within the dance world: it is the first dance music that you
cannot actually dance to. This observation seems to contrast with the statement
that drum 'n bass serves as little more than background. However, it can serve
as background of course without having to be dance music.
Drum 'n bass is seen by some as an extension of jazz rather than of dance music.
It borrows its rhythmic approach from dance (I think it is based on an extension
of break beats first advocated by the likes of The Prodigy some years ago).
However, the feel to some of the most appreciated drum 'n bass releases is
distinctly jazzy. There is also a level of complexity involved that is unheard
of since the days of disco (at least within the dance world). Try to listen to
a Squarepusher record and tell me that is not difficult music. In fact, I dare
say, it is true avant-garde. This, of course, does not hold true for the
majority of drum 'n bass releases, which can be seen as mere bandwagon jumping.

Complexity within the dance realm is coming from another corner as well: that of
Holland's Eboman, who uses samples and samples only to create musical
labyrinths. Not only does he use audio samples, he integrates these with
visual samples to achieve one unified audio-visual composition (in fact, many
of the cues in his music are taken in a musique concrete fashion from the
visual material that runs along with it).

Frankco.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Denman Maroney <[e-mail]>
Subject: Attn. NYC insomniacs: shameless plug
Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:09:53 GMT

Tonight, Wed. 11/21, at 11:00pm, I, Denman Maroney (piano), am performing at
the Knitting Factory (74 Leonard St., Tribeca) with percussionist Greg
Bendian. If anyone who sees this comes, please come up and say hi.
Denman Maroney
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Subject: br0tzmann/lasswell lp
Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:57:20 +0000 (GMT)

I recently came across a Peter Br0tzmann/Bill Lasswell collaboration LP,
probably titled "Low Life". Since it was rather expensive and I am not
really into this kind of this stuff, especially when not played by a
relatively large band (such as Last Exit) I would appreciate
any opinions from anyone who has listened to it.

Thanks

Nick Vassiliou



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew C Weiner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: br0tzmann/lasswell lp
Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:44:39 -0500 (EST)

My roommate just got this, and I think it'a absolutely great.
Brotzmann plays bass sax only; there are some overdubs. It
is screamingly intense music w/Laswell getting into some
extended technique/feedback (I think; only luistened to it
once); I'd say it's simlar t Last Exit in intensity but
clearer-textured (a description, not an evaluation).
You might appreciate that, given what you say about a
relatively large band (though I'm not sure relative to what).

I'm not sure what you mean by this kind of stuff. If you
don't like Last Exit, you might want to post where you've
seen it and post yourself there to watch the scramble.

Matt

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, N Vassiliou wrote:

> I recently came across a Peter Br0tzmann/Bill Lasswell collaboration LP,
> probably titled "Low Life". Since it was rather expensive and I am not
> really into this kind of this stuff, especially when not played by a
> relatively large band (such as Last Exit) I would appreciate
> any opinions from anyone who has listened to it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick Vassiliou
>
>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nathaniel Dorward <[e-mail]>
Subject: Croquet
Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:11:20 -0400 (AST)

Recently got Bruce Andrews's book of poems/performance pieces, _Ex Why
Zee_ (from Roof/The Segue Foundation), & see that one text there was
written for Zorn's "Croquet". Has this been/will this be released as a
recording?  I also note Lyn Hejinian supplied the text for "Que Tran";
same questions apply.  --N

                        *

                    Nate Dorward  ([e-mail])
                    website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/

                        *

                   ...Cambridge, where
        chthonic severance dictates endless toil.

                    --Peter Riley, _Alstonefield_


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew C Weiner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Drum'n'bass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:56:23 -0500 (EST)



On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Frankco Lamerikx wrote:
> Jungle, or drum 'n bass as its favored
> name is here in Europe, takes a somewhat
> awkward position within the dance world:
> it is the first dance music that you
> cannot actually dance to.
Odd--I have danced to it. Perhaps it depends on the style
of drum'n'bass.

> This observation
> seems to contrast with the statement
> that drum 'n bass serves as little more
> than background. However, it can serve
> as background of course without having to be dance music.
> Drum 'n bass is seen by some as an extension
> of jazz rather than of dance music.
> It borrows its rhythmic approach from dance
> (I think it is based on an extension
> of break beats first advocated by the likes
> of The Prodigy some years ago).
I'm told that several drum'n'bass programmers cite Shannon
Jackson as an influence. (Surprise! We're back on topic.)
Certainly what I've heard--and I'm by no means an expert--
seems pretty complex rhythmically.

> However, the feel to some of the most
> appreciated drum 'n bass releases is
> distinctly jazzy. There is also a level of
> complexity involved that is unheard
> of since the days of disco (at least
> within the dance world). Try to listen to
> a Squarepusher record and tell me that is
> not difficult music. In fact, I dare
> say, it is true avant-garde. This, of course,
> does not hold true for the
> majority of drum 'n bass releases, which can
> be seen as mere bandwagon jumping.

I agree about the music being avant-garde. I don't think
it's smart to dismiss the music after just a little
exposure; especially not on a newsgroup where "How do
I coax newbies into the music I like?" is a constant
topic.

FWIW, the Wire says that the drm'n'bass on the Bailey
album is pretty generic. Also, the much-hyped Goldie
album Timeless (got reviewed in Time! I have a theory
about that but it's off-topic) may be an easy way into
drum'n'bass--it has vocals and riffs and other things
that the unconverted might dig. Plus, it's good.

Matt


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: more Henry Kaiser
Date: 20 Nov 1996 15:38:45 -0500



>And in continuing to do penance to Cuneiform, I'd also like to mention
one
more recent Kaiser disc worth checking out.  THE SIAMESE
STEPBROTHERS
>(Cuneiform Rune 72, 1995) is quite the interesting record... it
pairs
Henry with Bruce Anderson (whom I believe is formerly of MX-80
Sound...
>anyone care to confirm?), early Grateful Dead keyboardist Tom
Constanten,
drummer Lukas Ligeti (son of the famous Hungarian composer I
think)
>and bassist Dale Sophiea.

BOTH Dale & Bruce are in MX-80, which is still in existence. And yes, Lukas
is the son of Georgy Ligetti. He also drummed in a Austrian band called
Kombinat M that had obvious influences from the "Downtown scene" until that
band died around '93.

>Henry also has a new band with last of the Zappa Band stunt guitarists Mike
>Kenneally, but I haven't heard it and can't remember the details.

That band is called "The Mistakes", & they have one album out on Immune. The
lineup is Henry & Mike + bassist Andy West (ex Dregs) & drummer Prairie
Prince (ex Tubes). It sounds like they are all having a lot of fun on it.

Lastly, a somewhat JZ related post - we will be releasing, in January '97, a
live 'n' studio CD called "Every Screaming Ear" by NYC's Doctor Nerve [who's
music definitely fits into the realm of that covered by this list] which will
be the final CD by Nerve that features trumpeter David Douglas [Masada], who
had been a member of Nerve since around 1984 & only left in the last 18
months when his schedule got too busy to remain with them.

Steve Feigenbaum


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harry Godfrey <[e-mail]>
Subject: jungle
Date: 20 Nov 1996 21:27:08 +0000

Frankco and anyone else who might be interested:  some might indeed think
that jungle/drum n bass is undanceable, judging on audio experiences...but
certain nights at venues here in Britain which showcase the talents of such
stars as Goldie (Metalheadz) or LTJ Bukem (Speed) have been going for a long
time now and are getting more popular than one could imagine.  The new
Metalheadz night at the Leisure Lounge in London began a few weeks ago, and
if anybody WASN'T dancing, it's because they couldn't move due to the
jam-packed state of affairs. Extremely hot and sweaty.   People definitely
dance to jungle.

Alex


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: br0tzmann/lasswell lp
Date: 20 Nov 1996 13:49:14 -0800

At 06:57 PM 11/20/96 +0000, N Vassiliou wrote:
>I recently came across a Peter Br0tzmann/Bill Lasswell collaboration LP,
>probably titled "Low Life". Since it was rather expensive and I am not

THIS SHOULD NOT BE "RATHER EXPENSIVE".  It has been sold as a cut-out in
some places.  I realize that M Vassiliou is in England, but I have seen new
copies for $10US and used ones for about $6US.  It's a great recording, but
do not spend a lot of money on it.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 13:49:15 -0800

At 02:56 PM 11/20/96 -0500, Matthew C Weiner wrote:

>I agree about the music being avant-garde. I don't think
>it's smart to dismiss the music after just a little
>exposure; especially not on a newsgroup where "How do
>I coax newbies into the music I like?" is a constant
>topic.

Great point.  The criticisms of drum 'n' bass that I have been reading here
are very similar to the accusations thrown at Zorn about use of rock in jazz.

Open those closed minds, and if you don't like it, wait a few years instead
of just saying it's not  worthwhile.



Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 13:49:16 -0800

At 04:41 PM 11/19/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800, Jeff Spirer writes:
>>At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>>>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel
>>>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2
>>>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable
>>>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own
>>>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative).
>>
>>"Lesser" in what sense?
>>
>>Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here?
>
>Well, unnh, I'm less interested in "prayer" than in music (perhaps
>you made a wrong choice of vocation). While Cooder and Zorn both recorded
>effective scores for the film (perhaps), Zorn's piece is - to me at least
>- far more interesting than Cooder's as a piece of music per se. Like most
>of Zorn's work - and almost none of Cooder's - there's a formal experiment
>happening here. Zorn uses those hillbilly strings to reference Hill's
>"Deliverance", and evoke the white trash millieu of "Trespass"'s protagonists.
>He uses the world music elements to describe that 'Heart of Darkness'
>that is the urban american ghetto. I could go on.
>
>Ultimately; my understanding of Cooder's brief is that he was asked to
>record a "lesser" (i.e "watered-down") version of Zorn's score.

And here is where this all starts to break down.  See, this is a rumor.
There are other reasons why this could have happened, and unless someone can
get Walter Hill online, there is no reason to believe that this is one.

FWIW, Ry Cooder has scored almost all of Walter Hill's movies after The
Warriors.  It is possible that Hill got funding for the movie to make what
the studio thought was a "typical" Walter Hill movie and that they thought
that included a Ry Cooder soundtrack.  It is possible that .....

And I am finding a high degree of musical intolerance popping up on this
list.  Cooder's soundtrack is very highly regarded by fans of "ambient"
music, for lack of a better word.  It is DIFFERENT.  And there is a big
difference between "different" and "lesser", or "different" and
"interesting."  Sometimes it sounds like dittoheads are talking about music
here, which is a little scarey thinking back to how hard it was for Zorn to
get through some of the "different" barriers.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: 100 CD box set thang
Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:58:24 -0500 (EST)


Just out of curiosity: how many copies of this monstrosity is this label
going to print?  Not that i'm anxious to buy one, but it's the sort of
trivia i'd like to know. Maybe they're only going to print one copy and
send it out into space for other life forms to uncover.  After all, if
NASA is going to send out records of Glen Gould and whale calls as
representative (somehow) of humanity, then we should update our efforts
with 100 CDs of Zorn/Eye improvs, which seem to catch something of the
flavour of what it is to live on the planet earth (sometimes).

-jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: H30
Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:04:58 -0500

I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm
told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and
saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it
alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I
suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does
anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best
stuff to start with?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:27:26 -0500 (EST)

When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut
always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it
sounds like nothing from the audience.

On 20 Nov 1996, GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM wrote:

> I had pretty much the same reaction, "huh??"  Maybe it is just a reflexive
> response on Joey's part as I gather, from some of the reports I have read,
> that Masada regularly plays much larger rooms than they played in Boston.  In
> fact, when Cohen's amp died, during the second set, I had no trouble hearing
> him from the next to last row in the room.  This was one of the quietest jazz
> shows I have heard in quite some time.
>
> Maybe Joey played in too many heavy metal bands in his younger days?
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:41:09 -0800


On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:49:16 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 04:41 PM 11/19/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
> >18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800, Jeff Spirer writes:
> >>At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
> >>>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel
> >>>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2
> >>>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable
> >>>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own
> >>>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative).
> >>
> >>"Lesser" in what sense?
> >>
> >>Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here?
> >
> >Well, unnh, I'm less interested in "prayer" than in music (perhaps
> >you made a wrong choice of vocation). While Cooder and Zorn both recorded
> >effective scores for the film (perhaps), Zorn's piece is - to me at least
> >- far more interesting than Cooder's as a piece of music per se. Like most
> >of Zorn's work - and almost none of Cooder's - there's a formal experiment
> >happening here. Zorn uses those hillbilly strings to reference Hill's
> >"Deliverance", and evoke the white trash millieu of "Trespass"'s protagonists.
> >He uses the world music elements to describe that 'Heart of Darkness'
> >that is the urban american ghetto. I could go on.
> >
> >Ultimately; my understanding of Cooder's brief is that he was asked to
> >record a "lesser" (i.e "watered-down") version of Zorn's score.
>
> And here is where this all starts to break down.  See, this is a rumor.
> There are other reasons why this could have happened, and unless someone can
> get Walter Hill online, there is no reason to believe that this is one.
>
> FWIW, Ry Cooder has scored almost all of Walter Hill's movies after The
> Warriors.  It is possible that Hill got funding for the movie to make what
> the studio thought was a "typical" Walter Hill movie and that they thought
> that included a Ry Cooder soundtrack.  It is possible that .....
>
> And I am finding a high degree of musical intolerance popping up on this
> list.  Cooder's soundtrack is very highly regarded by fans of "ambient"
> music, for lack of a better word.  It is DIFFERENT.  And there is a big
> difference between "different" and "lesser", or "different" and
> "interesting."  Sometimes it sounds like dittoheads are talking about music
> here, which is a little scarey thinking back to how hard it was for Zorn to
> get through some of the "different" barriers.

Come on Jeff, expressing some opinions about an artist should be still
allowed (even about sacred cows :-).

Not making a god of every musician on earth should still be accepted. At the
same time, never expressing any negative opinion about any musician
should also be suspect (sign of hyprocrisy or lack of taste?), don't you
think so (beside, of course, the easy and usual targets)?

I am personally tired of the wishy-washy comments that more than often
hide a total lack of interest for an artist/music, but refuse to acknowledge
it (by saying "It's bad", etc). In this kind of situations, I find a
statement such as "This sucks", quite refreshing :-).

There are more scary things in the world (look at Zaire, for example).
Also, I have seen very little criticism of other artists on this list
(which indicates a significant difference in threshold between you
and me :-).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 19:00:26 -0800

Jeff Spirer wrote:

> Open those closed minds, and if you don't like it, wait a few years instead
> of just saying it's not worthwhile.

You wound me, sir! :-)  If there is one accusation that cannot be
levelled at me, it is closed-mindedness!

I don't plan to declare jungle a closed book (THE JUNGLE BOOK?)
anytime soon.  I'm simply disappointed that nothing I've tried so
far has been especially impressive, which is why I wrote to Frankco
privately to thank him for his reply and his recommendations.
Maybe it's just a matter of taste... when I followed JZ's pointers
to the Boredoms, Napalm Death and Carcass my response was immediate
and overwhelmingly positive.

Yours in the spirit of positive debate!
Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Corroto <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada 7
Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:12:49 -0500

News: I am looking ar Masada Zavin (7 )
    DIW -915

tracks:    Shevet
        Hath-Arob
        Mahshaw
        Shamor
        Bacharach
        Otoit
        Nevuah
        Kedem
        Zemer
        Evel
        tekufah

also coming:
David Ware    Godspeilized
Dougie Brown    One Way Elevator w/John Medeski & Fred Hopkins
Blood Ulmer     Plays the music of ornette Coleman
Greg Cohen    Way Low
Altered States w/Ned Rothenberg

I'm excited

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada 7
Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:49:40 -0500


In a message dated 11/20/96 6:17:31 PM, [e-mail] (Mark
Corroto) wrote:

>also coming
>David Ware    Godspeilized
>Dougie Brown    One Way Elevator w/John Medeski & Fred Hopkins
>Blood Ulmer     Plays the music of ornette Coleman
>Greg Cohen    Way Low
>Altered States w/Ned Rothenberg

When? On DIW? Any more info here? This is a very intriguing set of titles.

Jon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada 7
Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:10:23 -0800


On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:12:49 -0500  Mark Corroto wrote:
>
> News: I am looking ar Masada Zavin (7 )
                ^^^^^
or ZAYIN?

>     DIW -915
>
> tracks:    Shevet
>         Hath-Arob
>         Mahshaw
>         Shamor
>         Bacharach
>         Otoit
>         Nevuah
>         Kedem
>         Zemer
>         Evel
>         tekufah

Any recording info?

> also coming:
> David Ware    Godspeilized
> Dougie Brown    One Way Elevator w/John Medeski & Fred Hopkins
         ^^^^^

I guess you mean Bowne.

> Blood Ulmer     Plays the music of ornette Coleman
> Greg Cohen    Way Low
> Altered States w/Ned Rothenberg
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This one is called CAFE 9.15. and is on the label Phenotype (which
is owned by DIW).

> I'm excited

So am I :-)

    Thanks for sharing your excitement,

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barry Gilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 100 CD box set thang
Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:25:43 -0700

At 04:58 PM 11/20/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Just out of curiosity: how many copies of this monstrosity is this label
>going to print?


1000 copies only.


Barry Gilbert
Boulder, Colorado


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jungle (was Re: ...Bailey's jungle record)
Date: 20 Nov 1996 19:27:14 -0500 (EST)



On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Steve Smith wrote:

> unfulfilling.  The music serves as little more than background, even
> with its extremely clever manipulation of rapid pulse.  Photek seemed

Others are doing a better job than I could in responding to most of the
comments raised by Steve in his post, but I want to make one point that
hasn't been raised yet:  This music is LOUD.  If it's only serving as
background, then the volume knob is probably turned too far down.  I
suspect that this is one reason that drum-n-bass always works better for
me one the dancefloor, but even on a home stereo, the breakbeats hit with
a force that at its best is intensely physical, and very much in the
spirit, if not the tradition, of Napalm Death, Painkiller, and _Torture
Garden_.  I haven't heard any of the releases Steve mentions yet, although
I'll certainly snap up the Bailey album as soon as I get, but you might
try turning up the volume if you're not "getting it". I don't think that
this is all that drum-n-bass has going for it, but
it's an important part of the aesthetic (at least for me).  If you're not
getting this effect at home, you might also consider checking out a club
set by a good DJ.

Chris


Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:12:25 -0800

At 07:00 PM 11/20/96 -0800, Steve Smith wrote:

>
>I don't plan to declare jungle a closed book (THE JUNGLE BOOK?)
>anytime soon.  I'm simply disappointed that nothing I've tried so
>far has been especially impressive, which is why I wrote to Frankco
>privately to thank him for his reply and his recommendations.
>Maybe it's just a matter of taste... when I followed JZ's pointers
>to the Boredoms, Napalm Death and Carcass my response was immediate
>and overwhelmingly positive.

In the spirit of positivity that Steve asked for, I would recommend the CD
_Tetragrammaton: Submerge_, which has Graham Haynes playing horn with a drum
'n' bass rhythm track that would probably be a better place to start than
other dnb recordings.  This CD is unavailable right now outside of NYC (in
NYC, Downtown Music Gallery has it and will mail order), but it should be in
distribution in the next few weeks through Caroline.  A lot of people also
recommend Squarepusher, which I like although not as much.

An interesting alternative, very far from the normal topics of this list, is
Lee Perry's/Mad Professor's _Super Ape Inna Jungle_, a very low budget
reggae meets dnb that I happen to enjoy.

I haven't heard the Derek Bailey, I can't find it, so I have no idea what it
sounds like.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:12:20 -0800

At 02:41 PM 11/20/96 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>Come on Jeff, expressing some opinions about an artist should be still
>allowed (even about sacred cows :-).
>
>Not making a god of every musician on earth should still be accepted. At the
>same time, never expressing any negative opinion about any musician
>should also be suspect (sign of hyprocrisy or lack of taste?), don't you
>think so (beside, of course, the easy and usual targets)?
>
>I am personally tired of the wishy-washy comments that more than often
>hide a total lack of interest for an artist/music, but refuse to acknowledge
>it (by saying "It's bad", etc). In this kind of situations, I find a
>statement such as "This sucks", quite refreshing :-).
>
>There are more scary things in the world (look at Zaire, for example).
>Also, I have seen very little criticism of other artists on this list
>(which indicates a significant difference in threshold between you
>and me :-).

I have no quarrel with what Patrice says here, and in fact agree that there
should be opinions.  What set me off here was the overt reference to the
reason for two scores to exist.  Nobody has any fucking knowledge of why
there are two different scores, at least not based on what has been posted
here.  This somehow has some implication for the quality of the music that
was used with the movie, which is nonsense.

I will reiterate that I happen to think the Cooder score is a great piece of
work.  The fact that the other score is around should be totally
independent, and the artists are in fact quite different.  If I asked if
someone thought John Zorn to be inferior/superior to Bernard Hermann as a
film score composer, I would expect them to tell me I'm an ass to ask the
question.  Same thing here.  And since no-one has any idea what the movie
would sound like with the Zorn score, given what happens to the music when
it is mixed in a movie soundtrack, it is ridiculous to say that one is more
effective than the other as the soundtrack to this particular movie.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:41:50 -0500

In a message dated 96-11-20 17:49:22 EST, [e-mail] (Patrice
L. Roussel) writes:

> Come on Jeff, expressing some opinions about an artist should be still
>  allowed (even about sacred cows :-).

Yeah, opinions on an artist, or another listmembers postings...

(Which would mean that your post and Jeffs are A-OK..)

>  I am personally tired of the wishy-washy comments that more than often
>  hide a total lack of interest for an artist/music, but refuse to
acknowledge
>  it (by saying "It's bad", etc). In this kind of situations, I find a
>  statement such as "This sucks", quite refreshing :-).
>
>  There are more scary things in the world (look at Zaire, for example).
>  Also, I have seen very little criticism of other artists on this list
>  (which indicates a significant difference in threshold between you
>  and me :-).

..Coming from the human computer, who is  known for spitting out the most
elaborate information on downtown artists...
(It's a joke, I feel I should point that out.. :) :)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:41:52 -0500

In a message dated 96-11-20 17:28:24 EST, [e-mail] (DANIEL
BITTON) writes:

> When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut
>  always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it
>  sounds like nothing from the audience.

But have you ever heard Masada live?  Joey doesnt play that loud.  I mean,
gun muffs??  And they were playing on the floor at the Knit, with the
audience three feet in front of the band.  I dont think his ears are messed
up, he probably has great hearing and doesnt want to endanger it.  Which is
very smart, but I really doubt he could have heard some of the quieter, more
delicate passages played by Douglas.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Corroto <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada 7
Date: 20 Nov 1996 22:47:11 -0500

it's  Masada Zayin (7 )

> Any recording info?
recorded april 16, 1996 NY

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trespass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 16:48:45 +1100 (EDT)

Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:12:20 -0800: Jeff Spirer writes,
>I will reiterate that I happen to think the Cooder score is a great piece
>of work. The fact that the other score is around should be totally
>independent, and the artists are in fact quite different.  If I asked if
>someone thought John Zorn to be inferior/superior to Bernard Hermann as a
>film score composer, I would expect them to tell me I'm an ass to ask the
>question. Same thing here.  And since no-one has any idea what the movie
>would sound like with the Zorn score, given what happens to the music
>when it is mixed in a movie soundtrack, it is ridiculous to say that one
>is more effective than the other as the soundtrack to this particular
>movie.

Ok, well, sure: you're as entitled to your opinion as anyone - as,
presumably, I and others are also. I don't know that I actually
expressed an opinion on the relative merits of Cooder's and Zorn's work as
scores (although I certainly prefer Zorn's score as music per se) - if I
did, you're quite right: its a moot point.

My initial point was simply that Zorn's score seems entirely appropriate
to the film, and its bewildering to me that the studio, Hill himself,
whoever, chose not to use it. That would seem to indicate that Zorn (like
any other musician who takes chances) still has "different" barriers in
his path. Further, this would seem to be especially the case with film
scoring.

go well, stay free...

Jim K

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Peck <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Tubes
Date: 20 Nov 1996 22:52:46 -0800 (PST)


>That band is called "The Mistakes", & they have one album out on Immune. The
>lineup is Henry & Mike + bassist Andy West (ex Dregs) & drummer Prairie
>Prince (ex Tubes). It sounds like they are all having a lot of fun on it.

The Tubes are no longer ex.  They've got a new album out, which I
recently picked up.  It's pretty similar to "Completion Backward
Principle" and "Inside/Outside", meaning an ironically commercial
sound.  Not the experimentalism of their last (and IMO best) album,
"Love Bomb" (which was produced by Rundgren) or their first few.

Anyway, most of the old gang is back, minus Bill Spooner and Vince
Welnick.  Prarie, Rick Anderson, Fee (!), etc. are there.  There's a
strange Prarie Prince song that's reminiscent of "Wild Women of
Wongo".  He's a *monster* drummer live!

Anyway, probably nobody here cares, so fffth.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan M Gordon (MSc/NC)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 13:06:23 GMT

Jeff wrote:
>>> In the spirit of positivity that Steve asked for, I would
recommend the CD _Tetragrammaton: Submerge_, which has Graham Haynes
playing horn with a drum'n' bass rhythm track that would probably be
a better place to start than other dnb recordings.<<<<

This brings us back to the original question which was: are the Derek
Bailey or Tetragrammaton d'n'b releases any good?

I would have to agree with the first poster (Jon?) who said that from
a JUNGLE viewpoint, the Bailey one wasn't up to much - the Wire
review agreed.

This thread certainly sorted out who is open-minded, and who isn't.
Everyone who's ever been to a club leapt to defend d'n'b.  The whole
thing has obvious parallels to hardcore.

Whoever said that you can't dance to jungle - this is one of the most
ridiculous things I've ever heard.    Or did you mean "I can't dance
to jungle" - I can empathise with this at least!

Alan (refreshed by change of topic from Masada/Buckethead ad nausem)
LOOK                  LISTEN                LEARN

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 07:11:17 -0800

At 01:06 PM 11/21/96 GMT, Alan M Gordon (MSc/NC) wrote:
>Jeff wrote:
>>>> In the spirit of positivity that Steve asked for, I would
>recommend the CD _Tetragrammaton: Submerge_, which has Graham Haynes
>playing horn with a drum'n' bass rhythm track that would probably be
>a better place to start than other dnb recordings.<<<<
>
>This brings us back to the original question which was: are the Derek
>Bailey or Tetragrammaton d'n'b releases any good?

I can't comment on the Bailey since I can't find it.  Ninj, who does the
rhythm track on this, has appeared elsewhere, and I thought his work was
pretty good.

Tetragrammaton's "goodness" depends on how much you like dnb.  However, as I
said, it is a good place to start.  The two Material tracks are really
strong.  One has Graham Haynes playing over Bill's dnb tracks, quite a bit
of processing on the horn at times, some interesting improvisational stuff
at other times.    Very much a "construction" though, just a warning for
those who want three guys in a studio to play for an hour and put out a
recording.  The other Material track has Byard Lancaster, and for about the
first 2/3 has a slow beat that maybe someone would call trip hop.  There is
an Indian drone that fades in and out, and the track hits me like Material's
"Mantra" with a Western horn instead of an Indian one.  There's some dnb at
the end.  There are three other tracks on this, my own favorite of them
being "Carbon 12" by DJ Soul Slinger and David Quinlan, being a dnb thing
built around a guitar riff.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 14:21:56 -0800

Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> Tetragrammaton's "goodness" depends on how much you like dnb.  However, as I
> said, it is a good place to start.  The two Material tracks are really
> strong.  One has Graham Haynes playing over Bill's dnb tracks, quite a bit
> of processing on the horn at times, some interesting improvisational stuff
> at other times.

See, here's the funny part... I agree with this, except that I don't
think it depends on how much you like d'n'b but rather how much you like
Laswell and learned grown to appreciate his ability to create worthwhile
music in pretty much any genre or setting he chooses - thrash, dance,
jazz, ambient, dub, whatever.  TETRAGRAMMATON is one of the most enjoyable
discs I've heard this year.  But I think also that maybe my own
reservations/limitations have just been made clearer to me.

It's the presence of Haynes and Lancaster that makes all the difference
to me, I think.  See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek
and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery
is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS.  It's like a perpetual motion
machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however
many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little
machine.  Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like
there's very little actual musical activity occurring.  I can imagine
that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now
I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant
in an activity to which music is an accessory.

With the tracks on TETRAGRAMMATON there is more activity, variety, and
personal involvement in each track than in all of the Photek and SHJ
discs I've been using for comparison, combined IMHO.  The two Material
tracks foreground an actual instrumentalist making real time decisions
over the d'n'b backgrounds (not to mention, on the Haynes track, Bill's
insistent dub bass stalking).  And even if there are not "soloists"
featured in the tracks by DJ Soul Slinger/David Quinlan and DJ Spooky,
there is still enough variety and foreground detail to give each
piece a satisfying sense of forward motion and narrative that really
sets it apart from the other more mainstream d'n'b things.

Again, it's MY biases, MY opinion.  I'm not trying to convince anyone
that I'm right about anything.  Those who want to know what d'n'b is
are, I think, best served by getting many different views on the topic,
and then following a pointer to whatever sounds most in synch with
one's own personal peccadilloes.  To them I would say:  If you are a
Derek Bailey fan you will buy GUITAR, BASS'N'DRUMS and you'll be
happy.  If you are a Laswell fan you should buy TETRAGRAMMATON and
you will also be happy.  But if you're just trying to get a sense
of what drum'n'bass is (not what it optimally COULD be when played
by our own favorite musicians) then neither of these examples is
typical in light of other things I have heard.

Heading out to buy a Squarepusher record this weekend (I'm serious),
Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Shearon <[e-mail]>
Subject: newbie w/ questions
Date: 21 Nov 1996 12:26:23 -0600 (CST)

hi, im daniel.
two broad areas:

#1
did anyone see mr bungle in athens this past time around?
jeez, it mustve been almost a year ago
the crowd was really terrible
i think they expected a faith no more show
they complained way more than thay applauded
the band hung in there though and played a long set.
mostly from disco volante, but they threw in "Honeysuckle Rose" and
"Everybody's working for the weekend"
after the show, patton was (of course) mobbed, but just ignored everybody
and drank
i went up to jz, and opened my mouth to say something and he just scowled
and walked away. whatta guy.
so trey spruance talked to everyone who wanted to and served as a
recepticle for praise. hes really great.

 #2
i need some suggestions on what jz to buy
i have some naked city and the one thats maybe called " wall of heads"--it
has 36 guitar etudes, and elegy
personally, i am most impressed with elegy, but id also like to hear some
of his film music
and where do i find this stuff?
in nashville, the best we have is tower records, and its kinda limited.
hows that early recordings disc?
i saw it once, but i think its gone forever.
are there ways i can contact these companies?

thanks for reading this too-long letter
and thanks more if you respond to me
daniel
p.s. why cant i find blood ulmer's america albums?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 13:04:47 -0700

alan:

> This thread certainly sorted out who is open-minded, and who isn't.
> Everyone who's ever been to a club leapt to defend d'n'b.  The whole
> thing has obvious parallels to hardcore.

whether one likes d'n'b has nothing to do with being open minded. the
people who discussed their dislike of what d'n'b they had heard should
certainly be given credit for giving it a chance.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs.
Date: 21 Nov 1996 18:12:18 -0500 (EST)

I've seen them live twice, and he doesn't go loud compared to a rock band
or anything, but when you're a musician and you have tinnitus your ears
get pretty sensitive and it can be jarring to tolerate drums at all,
especially for 2 hrs. Some guys get pain in their ears from only 10
decibles. He's probably got sensitive ears, even if they're not very
messed up.  Gun muffs aren't necessarily super quiet, there's different
kinds, and those look silly but their really good for giving you a good
quality of sound, and when you're playing every night for two hours you
don't want to mess around.  He does get heavier on his solos and just on
his accompanying. It probably doesn't bug you because you can handle it
for a couple of hours and you probably don't blast your ears with sound
several hours a day in practice and perfrormance.  I play winds and I
have to wear plugs almost all the time too, especially around drums.
    Then again, maybe he's just wearing them in case he has to pull
out his AK-47 or his GAT to knock off some nasty patrons or relative who
may show up.  Ask him if you get the chance.

On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-20 17:28:24 EST, [e-mail] (DANIEL
> BITTON) writes:
>
> > When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut
> >  always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it
> >  sounds like nothing from the audience.
>
> But have you ever heard Masada live?  Joey doesnt play that loud.  I mean,
> gun muffs??  And they were playing on the floor at the Knit, with the
> audience three feet in front of the band.  I dont think his ears are messed
> up, he probably has great hearing and doesnt want to endanger it.  Which is
> very smart, but I really doubt he could have heard some of the quieter, more
> delicate passages played by Douglas.
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Festival of Light
Date: 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)


For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.

Chris

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Festival of Light
Date: 21 Nov 1996 17:11:47 -0800


On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.

What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete
list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump
on and announce a new record :-).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500

****  The point that Jeff Spirer was trying to make is that nobody on this
list seems to really know why Zorn's score (assuming that's what's actually
on the album) wasn't used.  For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it
being used.  Maybe he thought his score wasn't being used appropriately,
maybe it was a money thing, who knows?  And it's entirely possible that it
was *too* musical, that it drew too much attention to itself (which isn't
unreasonable considering that the film draws a sharp distinction between
diegetic rap music and non-diegetic Ry Cooder music).

Best,
Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm


In a message dated 96-11-21 00:54:29 EST, you write:

<< My initial point was simply that Zorn's score seems entirely appropriate
 to the film, and its bewildering to me that the studio, Hill himself,
 whoever, chose not to use it. That would seem to indicate that Zorn (like
 any other musician who takes chances) still has "different" barriers in
 his path. Further, this would seem to be especially the case with film
 scoring. >>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 21 Nov 1996 21:05:02 -0500

******  This raises an interesting point about Minimalism:  can you like
Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno?   Does it matter?  For me, one of
the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and
runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
interchangable).  With most Minimalism, there are people sitting there
playing drones or repeated phrases or whatever and that seems to make a big
musical difference.  Is that imaginary?  So i like techno/jungle only in
small doses or in shamelessly commercial artists like Moby or Utah Saints.
 The other point is that techno/jungle requires a different way of listening
where it doesn't really matter if "nothing else happens."  This is pretty
obvious, i guess, and really doesn't mean much (listening to a Beethoven
string quartet is different than Hank Williams, not better just different).
 But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is
the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant.  That's what
annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors
who claim that written/composed music is oppressive).  It seems like just
recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.

Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm


In a message dated 96-11-21 13:19:06 EST, [e-mail] (Steve Smith)
writes:

<< o me, I think.  See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek
 and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery
 is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS.  It's like a perpetual motion
 machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however
 many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little
 machine.  Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like
 there's very little actual musical activity occurring.  I can imagine
 that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now
 I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant
 in an activity to which music is an accessory. >>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Festival of Light
Date: 21 Nov 1996 18:30:06 -0800 (PST)

:
:
: On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
: >
: >
: > For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
: > also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
: > tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
: > but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.
:
: What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete
: list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump
: on and announce a new record :-).
:
:     Patrice.
:

Yes, it's a new release on the Six Degrees Label, a subsiduary of Island.
Six degrees is run by Bob Appel and Robert Duskis. I think it's their first
release. (*@sixdegreesrecords.com)

Marc Cohn - Rock of Ages-Ma'oz Tzur
The Mels featuring John Lebenthal - 1902
Flairck - The Emigrant
Don Byron - Oi Tata
The Covenant - Kiddush Le-Shabbat
Rebbe Soul - Avinu
John McCutcheon - Erev Shel Shoshanium
The Klezmatics - Dybbuk Shers
Masada String Trio - Bikkurim
Alitsut - I see you
Jane Siberry - Shir Amami
Peter Himmelman & David Broza - Lighting Up the World

Chris

P.S. No I don't work for them !


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 21 Nov 1996 19:19:45 -0800

At 09:05 PM 11/21/96 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:

> But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is
>the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant.  That's what
>annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors
>who claim that written/composed music is oppressive).

This is an interesting and valid point.  I don't think that anyone on this
list has claimed that techno is the future.

But the comparison with free improv is interesting, because I think that in
some sort of Moebius strip sort of way, they can be the same.  I have
experienced improv to sometimes be hypnotic in its lack of structure, to the
point where the lack of structure becomes its own drone and the distinction
between one point and another in the improv are not particularly different
despite all sorts of obvious differences if one were to analyze the actual
notes being played.  But with drone, and some types of minimalism, the quite
opposite effect is rendered - that over time, the mind begins to create the
differences (improvisationally at this point) that are not visible.

Another interesting parallel, probably off-topic on this list, is that
people who listen to ambient music often like extreme hardcore stuff.

>It seems like just
>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.

Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
would say is equivalent of some of these artists.



Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trespass
Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:04:41 +1100 (EDT)

Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes
>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used.  Maybe he
>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money
>thing, who knows?

Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some
bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score
had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2:
"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact
that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the
work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual
restraints governing this whole thing.

To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a
creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little
ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways

go well, stay free...

Jim K

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (star leigh wall)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #33
Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:13:03 -0800 (PST)

>did anyone see mr bungle in athens this past time around? ....
>i went up to jz, and opened my mouth to say something and he just scowled
>and walked away. whatta guy.

John Zorn? On tour with Mr. Bungle? If you're referring to any of the
musicians that played in the band, I can assure you it wasn't John Zorn.
Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante
tour (nor in the past to my knowledge).

And this is a minor side note, but the song introduced as "Honeysuckle
Rose" was actually a Joe Meek song called "Love Dance of the Saroos."



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (jonathan kaye)
Subject: another new compilation w/ zorn
Date: 21 Nov 1996 23:38:13 -0500

>On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>>
>> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
>> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
>> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
>> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.
>
>What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete
>list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump
>on and announce a new record :-).
>
>        Patrice.

there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of
sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to
accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound"

disc one

king tubby              dub fi gwan
herbie hancock          rain dance
aphex twin              analogue bublebathI
jon hassel              empire III
ujang suryana           sorban palid
claude debussy          prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune
les baxter              sunken city
my bloody valentine     loomer
brian eno               lizard point
shunie omizutori
  buddhist ceremony
the vancouver soundscape the  music of horns and whistles
howler monkeys
peter brotzmann octet   machine gun
yanomami rain song
harold budd             bismillahi 'rrahmani 'rrahim

disc two

miles davis             black satin
terry riley             extract from poppy nogood "all night flight"
detty kurnia            coyor panon
ornette coleman         virgin beauty
john zorn/david toop    chen pe'i pe'i
paul schultze           rivers of mercury
the velvet underground  i heard her call my name
bearded seals
holger czukay &
  rolf dammers          boat - woman - song
the beach boys          fall breaks and back into winter (woody woodpecker
                        symphony)
african headcharge      faraway chant
sun ra                  cosmo enticement
music improvisation co. untitled
deep listening band     seven-up
john cage               in a landscape
erik satie              vexations
suikinkutsu water chime


it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get
ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know
anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly
weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn.


jon



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 21 Nov 1996 23:48:50 -0500


In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
wrote:

>>It seems like just
>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.
>
>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
>would say is equivalent of some of these artists.

Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named
Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I
know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea
(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and
I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from
California.

I think what these artists do have in common is their work is pretty widely
available (with the possible exception of Scanner) and they've all gotten a
fair amount of press. I also think, although I do like all of these artists
at least a little, that just as in most genres of music, much of the best
stuff is lesser known. For instance, if you ask me, the best electronica
album around right now, is Kruder and Dorfmeister's DJ Kicks. It's a 70-plus
minute DJ mix album that takes the style to new heights, eclipsing the
Spookmeister and all other pretenders.

Lang, you said:

<<But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is
the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant.>>

Obviously this isn't true (the preaching, that is) but what i do think is
true is that electronica is at a stage now that funk was at in the late
sixties or rap was at in the mid eighties. That is, a nascent stage in which
you can watch a style of music develop and progress, album by album, artist
by artist. I'm just waiting for the James Browns, P-Funks, Sly Stones, and
Public Enemys of electronica to emerge. Meanwhile, I enjoy watching many of
the artists in the field grow. And, sure, there's a lot of crap. What kind of
music doesn't have a lot of jokers mixed in with the geniuses? I think we're
at a very exciting time for music and electronica is one of the reasons. And
John Zorn is another one.

My personal "electronica" favorites:

The aforementioned K+D record
Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops)
Mouse On Mars-Ioara Tahiti
Thomas Koner-Anything, especially Permafrost
Lull, Final, Main-Anything (great to fall asleep to)
Pablo's Eye-You Love Chinese Food
Earthling-Radar

Anyway, those are some off the top of my head. It's also interesting to me
how the worlds of electronica and free improv are intersecting. At the
festival in Victoriaville this past May, many of the artists incorporated
electronics in some way culminating in the showcase act, Evan Parker's
Electronic Project. This consisted of Parker, Guy, Lytton, Namchylak
improvising while other musicians processed the music coming from those four
as if they were DJing. Was it completely successful? No, but it was sure
interesting.

Rant over,
Jon


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:56:22 -0800

At 03:04 PM 11/22/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes
>>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used.  Maybe he
>>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money
>>thing, who knows?
>
>Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some
>bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score
>had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2:
>"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact
>that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the
>work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual
                                       ^^^^^^^'

And as Lang points out, imagination is exactly what is going on here.
Whether Zorn is bitter or not, whether he makes a public statement or not,
the FACT is that imagination is all that is being peddled on this list.

>To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a
>creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little
>ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways

Why repeat ill-considered and polemical when you didn't have to?

Like I said before, it could just as easily be imagined that Walter Hill
thought it was terrible music and commissioned someone else to do it.  And
so all that is happening here is some second guessing of the whole thing
because someone happens to think that one soundtrack is better than the other.

Well I won't bother the list on this subject anymore because it will end up
as a flame war over imagined stuff.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 21 Nov 1996 21:29:08 -0800

At 11:48 PM 11/21/96 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
>wrote:
>
>>>It seems like just
>>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
>>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
>>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.
>>
>>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
>>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
>>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
>>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
>>would say is equivalent of some of these artists.
>
>Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named
>Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I
>know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea
>(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and
>I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from
>California.

Most of them play more in NYC than elsewhere.  I didn't comment on their
origins, but they do seem to be part of that scene.  It's kind of like
calling Bill Frisell downtown...

>

>Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops)

This is a great recording.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:50:42 -0500 (EST)



On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

>   For me, one of
> the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and
> runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
> interchangable).

Two points here: First, keep in mind that dance records are often oriented
primarily towards the dance floor (shockingly enough).  In that context,
they don't just run along, because they're being continually mixed/segued/
whatever it is DJs do.  In fact, you might say they're used as instruments
for extended (usually solo) improvisations.  I'll reiterate that those of
you who are interested in acquiring a taste for d'n'b might consider
checking it out at a club.  Even in that context, it doesn't have to
function as an "accessory" (to use Steve Smith's term) to another
activity.  Try just standing against the wall and listening.

     Second, techno and d'n'b don't sound interchangable to me any more
than other genres of music I listen to.  I have a feeling that this is a
result of nothaving listened to the genre enough to develop a feel for the
nuances that distinguish one track from another. I have the
same problem with death metal, I used to have it with blues, and I've
known people who had it with modern jazz.  Obviously, no one has time to
acquire this kind of feel for every genre, and I don't think anyone should
feel compelled to develop it for techno/d'n'b, but the distinctions are
there.

>  But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is
> the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant.  That's what
> annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors
> who claim that written/composed music is oppressive).

Hey, I resemble that remark (both of 'em, oddly enough).  Seriously, I do
think that "new electronica", or whatever we're calling it this week,
provides an interesting complement to improv.  It's pure composition.  It
can be written by a single musician directly onto tape, and once it's been
written, there's no human element to be oppressed.

Chris

Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (James Hale)
Subject: Joey, off the beaten track
Date: 22 Nov 1996 01:16:50 -0500

Two new recordings with Baron on drums that may have escaped your attention.
Steve Kuhn's Remembering Tomorrow on ECM (David Finck on bass) and Richard
Galliano's Laurita on Dreyfus (Galliano on accordion, Palle Danielsson on
bass).

James Hale



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (david m rothbaum)
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 21 Nov 1996 23:30:10 -0700


>     Second, techno and d'n'b don't sound interchangable to me any more
>than other genres of music I listen to.  I have a feeling that this is a
>result of nothaving listened to the genre enough to develop a feel for the
>nuances that distinguish one track from another. I have the
>same problem with death metal, I used to have it with blues, and I've
>known people who had it with modern jazz.  Obviously, no one has time to
>acquire this kind of feel for every genre,

strictly a guess but id assume mr zorn does...



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Friedrich Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:48:49 +0100

Hi everybody,

Steve wrote:

>>>See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek
>>> and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery
>>> is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS.  It's like a perpetual motion
>>> machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however
>>> many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little
>>> machine.  Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like
>>> there's very little actual musical activity occurring.  I can imagine
>>> that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now
>>> I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant
>>> in an activity to which music is an accessory. >>

Then, Lang wrote:

>>******  This raises an interesting point about Minimalism:  can you like
>>Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno?   Does it matter?  For me, one of
>>the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and
>>runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
>>interchangable).

I think that setting something in motion and just letting it run along is a
principle which cannot only be found in minimal music, techno and jungle.
It is - for divers reasons - used in, say, hardly every musical genre.
Whereas my association with techno and for example Phillip Glass is more an
industrial one, where the repetition plays with monotony and tries to sound
static, it has another function for example in soul music. James Brown's
music also consists of lots of repetitions, but there they sound more like
tribal, mystical or something to me. To my ears, jungle lies right between
these extremes.

To come to a thesis about all that: It is REQUIRED that nothing happens in
the music to come to a result inside of the recipient different from
listening to music full of developement. The developement inside the
recipient is caused through the absence of changes outside. So I completely
aggree to Lang when he writes:

>> The other point is that techno/jungle requires a different way of listening
>>where it doesn't really matter if "nothing else happens."  This is pretty
>>obvious, i guess, and really doesn't mean much (listening to a Beethoven
>>string quartet is different than Hank Williams, not better just different).

So I personally conclude that jungle can be music only to listen to, but
that the repetitious characteristic predestinates it to be dancefloor music
too. Whereas I've never liked any kind of techno (don't know why since I do
like Glass and Co.), I enjoy jungle even without anything happening but
repetitions. And I find it rather inspiring as carpet for improvisations,
because it brings a completely new feeling. It's a new voice in the choir,
and I welcome it.

Fritz Feger

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn
Date: 22 Nov 1996 09:11:23 -0500 (EST)

> it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get
> ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know
> anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly
> weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn.

This looks like a really cool compilation! I like that there's such
diversity.

Matthew Ross Davis
University of Maryland School of Music


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn
Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:14:02 -0600 (CST)


>there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of
>sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to
>accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound"

snip

>peter brotzmann octet   machine gun


Whoa! "Machine Gun" is one of the last records I would have picked to be on
an "ambient" collection, but hey good for them!

Ralph


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hywel davies <[e-mail]>
Subject: eckert,jaffe..
Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:38:09 -0800

any info. please on Rinde Eckert ,whose cd 'Finding my way home'(diw)
Frisell played on ? Is the forthcoming Berne 'Big Satan(?)' cd by the
trio that was called 'Lowball' (with Allen Jaffe on gtr.)? Has anyone
heard the new Ellery Eskelin 'the sun died'(soulnote) with Ribot on gtr?
Is there a Herb Robertson cd 'Sound Implosions' on cimp?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: eckert,jaffe..
Date: 22 Nov 1996 11:32:33 -0800

hywel davies wrote:
>
> any info. please on Rinde Eckert ,whose cd 'Finding my way home'(diw)
> Frisell played on ?

Don't know this album but Eckert is a performance-art vocalist who did
lots of worthwhile work with California composer Paul Dresher.

> Is the forthcoming Berne 'Big Satan(?)' cd by the
> trio that was called 'Lowball' (with Allen Jaffe on gtr.)?

No, but close,  It's Berne, Marc Ducret (g) and Tom Rainey (d).
Three tunes each by Berne and Ducret.  Due in February from
Winter & Winter (assuming the label finds distribution -
actually I don't think that's a problem for you, just for those
of us in the U.S.).

> Has anyone
> heard the new Ellery Eskelin 'the sun died'(soulnote) with Ribot on gtr?

No, but wasn't this one supposed to be a big swaggering bluesy tribute
to Gene Ammons?

> Is there a Herb Robertson cd 'Sound Implosions' on cimp?

Yes, as well as 'Falling in Flat Space' by the same trio on Cadence
Jazz Records.  Haven't heard them but am told that it's very loose
free improv.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn
Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:13:36 -0800


On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:13 -0500  jonathan kaye wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST)  [e-mail] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD
> >> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with
> >> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow
> >> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel.
> >
> >What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete
> >list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump
> >on and announce a new record :-).
> >
> >        Patrice.
>
> there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of
> sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to
> accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound"

It was in fact hidden somewhere in the discography (item 188).

> it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get
> ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know
> anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly
> weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn.

This is a very enjoyable record with great "regular" Zorn solos. The music
moves between songs to experimental rock. The experimental parts are in
the spirit of Toop/Beresford previous project (General Strike). The kind
of record you never talk about but always have pleasure to play...

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trespass
Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:30:25 -0800


On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:56:22 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 03:04 PM 11/22/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote:
> >Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes
> >>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used.  Maybe he
> >>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money
> >>thing, who knows?
> >
> >Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some
> >bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score
> >had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2:
> >"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact
> >that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the
> >work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual
>                                        ^^^^^^^'
>
> And as Lang points out, imagination is exactly what is going on here.
> Whether Zorn is bitter or not, whether he makes a public statement or not,
> the FACT is that imagination is all that is being peddled on this list.
>
> >To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a
> >creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little
> >ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways
>
> Why repeat ill-considered and polemical when you didn't have to?
>
> Like I said before, it could just as easily be imagined that Walter Hill
> thought it was terrible music and commissioned someone else to do it.  And
> so all that is happening here is some second guessing of the whole thing
> because someone happens to think that one soundtrack is better than the other.
>
> Well I won't bother the list on this subject anymore because it will end up
> as a flame war over imagined stuff.

Next time somebody dares to say something on this list we will ask him to
prove it with a paper signed by the artists involved (I am still checking
if we will require the involvement of layers).

James thought that by having a friend who interviewed the man, his mail was
serious enough to justify posting it. Now he knows that he better provides
better homework. Hope this will be a lesson for the other members on this
list.

I wonder if in the future I will have the courage to open my mouth... I
doubt that my tidbits of information will be up to such lofty standards.

    Patrice.

PS: It might not be clear from the above, but I found James' post worth
being mailed on this list (and I hope he will keep doing it).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:32:42 -0800


On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:29:08 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 11:48 PM 11/21/96 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, [e-mail] (Jeff Spirer)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>>It seems like just
> >>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting
> >>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner
> >>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers.
> >>
> >>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in
> >>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to
> >>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of
> >>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I
> >>would say is equivalent of some of these artists.
> >
> >Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named
> >Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I
> >know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea
> >(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and
> >I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from
> >California.
>
> Most of them play more in NYC than elsewhere.  I didn't comment on their
> origins, but they do seem to be part of that scene.  It's kind of like
> calling Bill Frisell downtown...
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not even downtown Seattle, it seems :-).

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:43:14 +0200 (GMT+0200)


> Then, Lang wrote:
>=20
> >>******  This raises an interesting point about Minimalism:  can you lik=
e
> >>Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno?   Does it matter?  For me, one=
 of
> >>the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motio=
n and
> >>runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
> >>interchangable). =20

Ermm, I don=ABt quite follow you here... Techno and jungle sounding=20
interchangable? I assume you ment that it=ABs difficult to tell one track=
=20
from another (I don=ABt agree with you, but that=ABs not the point of tis=
=20
thread... :) as jungle/d=ABn=ABb and techno really don=ABt sound alike: the=
y=20
use different rhythms, sounds and mostly different sample material in=20
general. Period.

But to the point: I don=ABt really agree with you in the jungle equals=20
minimalism thing, as to me jungle is one of the most complex and detailed=
=20
musicforms to emerge lately. I mean, in some of the best d=ABn=ABb (to me t=
hat=ABs=20
Photek, Squarepusher, u-ziq, Plug,...) almost nothing is repeated=20
exactly. If you listen carefully, you see that the short rhythm loops are=
=20
always changing, new sounds emerge and disappear, filters open and close,=
=20
samples stutter. Some songs have so much going on, drum-vise usually,=20
that it=ABs hard to tell there =ABone=AB is. Great dance music, eh... Okay,=
 so=20
some of the jungle stuff (even from the ones I mentioned) is more=20
repetitive, but still it IMHO differs from techno (where the rhythm=20
stays generally the same, but changing of sounds generates the musical=20
content...) and minimalism. Actually, to me jungle is closer to=20
maximalism in terms of =ABinformation overload=AB and =ABshort attention sp=
an=AB=20
way (what I dig, I drink too much coffee :)=20

Okay, that=ABs my two pennies...


 teemu


-------------
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Shearon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #33
Date: 22 Nov 1996 11:30:30 -0600 (CST)

actually, im gald to hear
that wasnt jz that blew me off
though, i must admit, i wouldnt know him if i saw him

daniel the mistaken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Wittmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: drum'n'bass
Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:01:34 -0500

As a lurker on the digest form of the list, I don't often add my two
cents more than once every 6 months, but I thought I would add a word or
two here. I've been a radio DJ for about 8 years now, and my shows have
covered just about the entire map of music (I got into JZ through a
skewed sense of jazz, fascination with death metal, love of 60's Trane,
sadness at the demise of the late 80's Wax Trax sound, and hilarious
laughter at the Mancini takes on Naked City.... no, it doesn't make
sense). Right now I've got a world beat/international show with an
emphasis on Latino music and Afropop. Anyway, on the new Red Hot and Rio
album (proceeds to AIDS research, as Red Hot always does....), there's
an excellent example of what influence drum'n'bass can have on previous
music. Everything but the Girl took the Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto/Astrud
Gilberto tune "Corcovado," kept it silky and sexy, and threw drum'n'bass
on top in a totally organic and logical way. The tune kicks ass: you
_can_ listen to it in the comfort of your home, and you can dance to it,
too.

So there. (grin) Let's hear it for eclectic music tastes, varied club
experiences, and the money to enjoy it all....

Have a nice day, everyone. (By the way, I've enjoyed the bizarre twists
of recent threads, what with ear plugs, minimalism (I'm a Glass fan),
electronica, and all. Thanks to all involved!)
--
+-------------------------+--------------------+
| Michael Wittmann        |  Physics Education |
| Physics Department      |     Research Group |
| University of Maryland  |  tel: [phone] |
| College Park, MD 20742  |  Physics room 0220 |
| http://www.physics.umd.edu/rgroups/ripe/mcw/ |
+----------------------------------------------+
find world beat music reviews at
http://www.physics.umd.edu/rgroups/ripe/mcw/reviews.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Marc Kate)
Subject: Re: H30
Date: 22 Nov 1996 12:03:34 -0800

Hey.

It actually wasn't a collaboration with Greenaway.  It actually sounds like
Greenaway found himself above the project somehow.  (I'm currently
interviewing Andrew McKenzie/H3O for my zine.)

Next find Kill the King.  It's fabulous.
happy listening.
Marc.


>I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm
>told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and
>saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it
>alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I
>suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does
>anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best
>stuff to start with?

      ~               :      .         =A8
          ,   '  Marc Kate       ~         ,   .
=B0        .        :         '    .           ~          =B0
     ,            ,  [e-mail]        .        ,
        .      ,           '         ~      .   ~



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: H30
Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:38:10 -0500 (EST)

> I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm
> told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and
> saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it
> alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I
> suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does
> anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best
> stuff to start with?


I think their ep 'Masturbatorium' is one of the best pieces of this genre
of sound.  It's only 17 minutes and kind of expensive, though, so you may
want to buy the album 'kill the king' which has masturbatorium as part of
it, although i think it may be a different version (kill the king is live,
i think). Although i haven't heard kill the king, every one assures me
it's increadible.

'Mastery of Money' is also very good.  Be sure to hear it on a really good
stereo, because there is a lot of very low frequency things going on.

-jascha





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:01:54 -0500 (EST)



>
> My personal "electronica" favorites:
>
> The aforementioned K+D record
> Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops)
> Mouse On Mars-Ioara Tahiti
> Thomas Koner-Anything, especially Permafrost
> Lull, Final, Main-Anything (great to fall asleep to)
> Pablo's Eye-You Love Chinese Food
> Earthling-Radar

I'd add:

Autechre - anything
John Oswald - anything ('discosphere' and 'plunderphnics' are very good,
although very different)

and i'd definitly agree with the recomendations for Thomas Koner and Main.
Consistently increadible all the time.  Wow.
-jascha



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "R. Lynn Rardin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron's ear protection
Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:38:51 -0500 (EST)

Someone wrote (sorry, lost the last reference)

>On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 96-11-20 17:28:24 EST, [e-mail] (DANIEL
>> BITTON) writes:
>>
>> > When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut
>> >  always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it
>> >  sounds like nothing from the audience.

Most definitely.  I honestly don't know how musicians and especially
drummers take playing/practicing all the time without some form of ear
protection.

>> But have you ever heard Masada live?  Joey doesnt play that loud.

When compared to most drummers in other situations, I'd agree that Joey
doesn't play that loud.  But we were in the front row at one of the Boston
shows and the music definitely got loud enough that I wished I had my
earplugs a couple times.

>> I mean,
>> gun muffs??  And they were playing on the floor at the Knit, with the
>> audience three feet in front of the band.  I dont think his ears are messed
>> up, he probably has great hearing and doesnt want to endanger it.  Which is
>> very smart, but I really doubt he could have heard some of the quieter, more
>> delicate passages played by Douglas.
>
>I've seen them live twice, and he doesn't go loud compared to a rock band
>or anything, but when you're a musician and you have tinnitus your ears
>get pretty sensitive and it can be jarring to tolerate drums at all,
>especially for 2 hrs.

Exactly.  These guys play a lot every day and repetitive exposure to even
not so loud "noise" does damage to your hearing over time.

>Some guys get pain in their ears from only 10
>decibles. He's probably got sensitive ears, even if they're not very
>messed up.  Gun muffs aren't necessarily super quiet, there's different
>kinds, and those look silly but their really good for giving you a good
>quality of sound,

Now this surprises me.  Are gun muffs really designed to give "good quality
of sound"?  Or is it just a coincidence?  At the Boston shows, Joey was
wearing what looked like serious earplugs--the type you haved an
audiologist make for you for a couple hundred bucks.  Plugs like this
are specially designed to give an even attenuation over the range of
frequencies useful to humans.

>    Then again, maybe he's just wearing them in case he has to pull
>out his AK-47 or his GAT to knock off some nasty patrons or relative who
>may show up.

Now there's a thought! :^)

-Lynn ([e-mail])

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (david m rothbaum)
Subject: Re: H30
Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:53:20 -0700

>> I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm
>> told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and
>> saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it
>> alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I
>> suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does
>> anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best
>> stuff to start with?


i happen to think thier album Fuck is wonderfull as well.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: slawlor <[e-mail]>
Subject: questions
Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:57:31 -0500 (EST)

Hi there.  What piece of Zorn music would you say is the fastest moving
in terms of it's constantly changing themes?  Does he have any other
compositions out that are as lengthy or longer than Spilain?
Also, I've heard about these film music albums.  The title makes me think
of sound track recordings?  Is this what these are, or are they totally
different from sound track albums which usually have very short pieces?
One more question, for now anyway.  Doesn't John zorn have a classical
background in terms of formal training, and how did he initally break
into the music sceen?  Thanks for the information.


scott K. Lawlor
3358 Prange Dr.
Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223
Phone, 330-922-4895
http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: newbie w/ questions
Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:50:15 -0500

In a message dated 96-11-21 13:31:56 EST, [e-mail] (Dan
Shearon) writes:

>
>  p.s. why cant i find blood ulmer's america albums?

  Many have just recently been reissued on cd, like Black Rock, Freelancing,
Odyssey, and Tales of Captain Black.  I got the Japanese pressings, but now I
think Columbia is reissuing them domestically.

Also, i highly recommend "South Delta Space Age" by Third Rail, which is
Blood, Bill Laswell, Ziggy Modeliste, and Bernie Worrell.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: d 'n b / minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 14:57:40 EDT

Fritz Feger wrote:
So I personally conclude that jungle can be music only to listen to, but
that the repetitious characteristic predestinates it to be dancefloor music
too. Whereas I've never liked any kind of techno (don't know why since I do
like Glass and Co.), I enjoy jungle even without anything happening but
repetitions. And I find it rather inspiring as carpet for improvisations,
because it brings a completely new feeling. It's a new voice in the choir,
and I welcome it.

ugh, here's my 2 cents worth: the first time i heard a drum 'n bass track, i
was blown away.  it was like listening to rasheed (oops, sp?) ali on
'interstellar space' with coltrane's tracks muted out.  i went and bought the
first jungle comp. i could find for cheap and listened to it on a roadtrip.
for the first few tracks, i was pumped up but it got old really fast.  but
still, i was enchanted by the syncopated drum programming, tweeked out sounds
and the thumping bass and knew there was better stuff out there somewhere.
soon, i started to hear a lot of cool stuff like plug, wagon christ remixes, dj
krush remixes, some photek 12" and even the palmskin productions track 'spock
with a beard' on a 'acid jazz' comp.  and what put me over the top was listening
 to it on headphones.  it *was* the shit.  then i moved to s.f. and started to
go to some d 'n b weeklies and was pretty happy.  the dancefloor was full of
wigglers and jigglers of all sorts and the music was loud on a lo-fi sound
system.  i'd hate to use the word but it was dope.  the shifting and
oscillating elements as well as the repetitious ones was what made the music
for me.  the rivetted ride and snare provided a swirling backdrop to the steady
bass loops and in between all that, my body convulsed to the pulse, my feet
stomped around and my head scrambled tomstitc hat tifying with improv  .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: newbie w/ questions
Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:39:59 -0800

At 05:50 PM 11/22/96 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>In a message dated 96-11-21 13:31:56 EST, [e-mail] (Dan
>Shearon) writes:
>
>>
>>  p.s. why cant i find blood ulmer's america albums?
>
>  Many have just recently been reissued on cd, like Black Rock, Freelancing,
>Odyssey, and Tales of Captain Black.  I got the Japanese pressings, but now I
>think Columbia is reissuing them domestically.
>
>Also, i highly recommend "South Delta Space Age" by Third Rail, which is
>Blood, Bill Laswell, Ziggy Modeliste, and Bernie Worrell.
>

And Amina Claudine Myers.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:39:22 -0800

>On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>   For me, one of
>> the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and
>> runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely
>> interchangable).
>
>Two points here: First, keep in mind that dance records are often oriented
>primarily towards the dance floor (shockingly enough).  In that context,
>they don't just run along, because they're being continually mixed/segued/
>whatever it is DJs do.  In fact, you might say they're used as instruments
>for extended (usually solo) improvisations.  I'll reiterate that those of
>you who are interested in acquiring a taste for d'n'b might consider
>checking it out at a club.  Even in that context, it doesn't have to
>function as an "accessory" (to use Steve Smith's term) to another
>activity.  Try just standing against the wall and listening.
>
True, but I have to admit that the drum 'n' bass things I like the most are
not the purist club mixes, but things done by people outside of the core of
the d'n'b scene adapting the style into their own. For example, I really
like the Laswell Oscillations record. It seems like this was done not to be
played in a club, but as a listening experience in its own right. The mixes
on this record have the continually evolving and improvisational feel that
a live DJ mix probably would. Another piece I like a lot is DJ
SoulSlinger's "Abducted", on the Necropolis project compilation by DJ
Spooky.

A friend recommended LTJ Bukem's Logical Progression as an example of
experimental d'n'b, and given its textural severity and the harmonic
ambiguity of most of the pieces, I can see how it would be considered
innovative compared to most other club music, but it seems pretty tame in a
larger context.

I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely distributed yet?)
or squarepusher.

I think that there's an interesting connection between, something I have
yet to hear explored, between the way that the drumloops evolve in d'n'b,
and the way a jazz drummer would track with a soloist. Although I hear that
the Derek Bailey record is not particularly great, I think this concept
bears exploration.

>
>Hey, I resemble that remark (both of 'em, oddly enough).  Seriously, I do
>think that "new electronica", or whatever we're calling it this week,
>provides an interesting complement to improv.  It's pure composition.  It
>can be written by a single musician directly onto tape, and once it's been
>written, there's no human element to be oppressed.
>
Yeah, but I wonder if there isn't an element of improvisation in the way at
least some of the electronic composers work. I could imagine that some of
the final mixes are "improvised" live, even though all the source materials
are sequenced or sampled

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Lee/SYBASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: d 'n b / minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:45:54 EDT

somehow my posting message was sent without finishing it... yeah i look stupid
(feel stupid) but here's the tail of my 2 cents:

d 'n b is a refreshing and welcomed addition to the world of
electronic/intelligent dance music.  if you can't make it to a club, try
headphones (it'll warp ya).  there is good stuff and plenty of bad stuff (in
any 'style'' of music) so don't write it off if you happen to not like what
you've listened to.  if you do, you are narrowing the spectrum of progressive
musical styles and limiting your own perspective of music.  and if you really
don't like it, at least you tried which is more than i can say (b/c i do not
like country but i haven't really tried and don't have a will to).  obviously,
there is all this d 'n b talk b/c we're interested in the current develoments
of music and are willing to take the time to explore new territories as is
Derek Bailey, B.Laswell etc.  So enough preaching.  Checkout 'intelligent dance
music' (idm mailing list) if you want to find out about some of the heaviest
dance music around ([e-mail] w/ message: sub idm) and maybe you
can be pointed to something that may appeal to your particular sensibilities.
as for my recommends in the d 'n b vein:
transonic's track  'extinguisher' on bill laswell's oscillations (the rest of
the album is so so but Musso's track is good)
funky porcini 12" (i don't remember what it's called but it has a squarepusher
remix that's pretty over-the-top)
wagon christ (remixes) on instinct u.s.a. w/ aphex twin remix
aphex twin - 12" hangable autobulb 1 &2
third eye foundation - 12" (hardcore scariness)
ben neill 12" remixed by dj spooky, dj soulslinger etc on antilles (cheap) -
for a more ambient approach to d 'n b
and last but not least, coldcut's mix cd 'journeys' - a wide variety of break
beat/ d 'n b tracks in a 70 min. mix (on jdj records).

again, sorry about the dribbling of my last post (i'm not sure if it even was
sent but it sure wasn't on my machine when it crashed)
*also, for you'all minimalist enthusiasts.  have you checked out the philip
glass/aphex twin ep 'donkey rhubarb' - quite interesting.

leon

on now: robert dick - third stone from the sun

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:29:07 -0800

At 04:39 PM 11/22/96 -0800, Dave Trenkel wrote:

>I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely distributed yet?)

No.  It looks like Caroline will be handling the distribution, but it will
not be out there until after Christmas.  For now, it can be obtained from
Downtown Music Gallery in NYC (212-473-0043) and they do mail order.

Valis II will be out on the same label, probably at the same time that
_Tetragrammaton_ appears in the stores, and will probably be of interest to
at least some of the people on this list.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Landon Thorpe)
Subject: a few comments on recent list-events
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500

star leigh wall wrote:

>John Zorn? On tour with Mr. Bungle? If you're referring to any of the
>musicians that played in the band, I can assure you it wasn't John Zorn.
>Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante
>tour (nor in the past to my knowledge).

Er, is this correct? I think I remember postings to this list noting at
least a couple of SF Bungle shows with Zorn. And I believe Zorn goes
uncredited on the Mr. Bungle debut, playing on "Love is a Fist" (am I
right?). Don't want to pick nits, just want to see if I'm remembering
correctly.

On another note, I'm glad to see the intelligent discussion concerning
techno/ambient/dnb. I find these postings to be quite enjoyable and
informative (like most of the postings on this list). I recently became a
subscriber to the intelligent dance music and ambient lists, and,
unfortunately, while the postings are in the same category as the
aforementioned, I find them (all 100K per day or so) to be, on the whole,
less "quality dense". Oh well.

Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our
most well-listened list-denizens?

Thanks,

LP Thorpe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The past cannot remember the past. The future can't generate the future.
The cutting edge of this instant right here and now is always nothing less
than the totality of everything there is." -- Robert M Pirsig




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marcus Klein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 23 Nov 1996 11:52:19 EST

>>>I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely
>>distributed yet?)

>>No.  It looks like Caroline will be handling the distribution,
>>but it will not be out there until after Christmas.  For now,
>>it can be obtained from Downtown Music Gallery in NYC
>>(212-473-0043) and they do mail order.

Do you know where to get  Tetragrammotron in Europe ?

It is often hard to get rare Laswell or Zorn releases in Europe, despite of the
fact that you sometimes have to pay more than you pay for other records <that
chartshit that is in the stores today> so I would like to know where to get
brandnew "NY records" in Germany.

Thanx,

Marcus Klein


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism
Date: 23 Nov 1996 10:26:24 -0800

At 11:52 AM 11/23/96 EST, Marcus Klein wrote:
>>>>I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely
>>>distributed yet?)
>
>>>No.  It looks like Caroline will be handling the distribution,
>>>but it will not be out there until after Christmas.  For now,
>>>it can be obtained from Downtown Music Gallery in NYC
>>>(212-473-0043) and they do mail order.
>
>Do you know where to get  Tetragrammotron in Europe ?
>
>It is often hard to get rare Laswell or Zorn releases in Europe, despite of the
>fact that you sometimes have to pay more than you pay for other records <that
>chartshit that is in the stores today> so I would like to know where to get
>brandnew "NY records" in Germany.
>

This is a real problem and I don't think that there is an easy fix.  For one
thing, _Tetragrammaton_ was pressed several months ago and is just getting
US distribution.  Given how long this took, I sort of doubt that European
distribution will happen anytime soon.  You might try Downtown Music Gallery
([e-mail]) and see if they can ship it to you.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (star leigh wall)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #35
Date: 23 Nov 1996 11:09:11 -0800 (PST)

>>Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante
>>tour (nor in the past to my knowledge).

>Er, is this correct? I think I remember postings to this list noting at
>least a couple of SF Bungle shows with Zorn. And I believe Zorn goes
>uncredited on the Mr. Bungle debut, playing on "Love is a Fist" (am I
>right?).

i should clarify that i mean 'performed' as in live bungle shows.  as far
as i know, zorn did play on love is a fist on the album, and bungle members
have definitely played with zorn at various live shows, but not bungle
shows.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze
Date: 23 Nov 1996 21:38:18 -0500

This is a bit off-topic but i've been trying to find an electronica
compilation called In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze released by the German label
Milles Plateaux.  Several mail-order companies have it in their catalog but
are currently sold out and say there's some kind of distributor difficulties
that'll take some time to resolve.  Does anybody know where i can get it?

Thanks,
Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ocean of Sound
Date: 23 Nov 1996 21:47:48 -0500

The compilation album is great though a bit hard to find; almost as good is
Toop's companion Crooning on Venus which focuses on the voice.  However, i'm
really posting because i think most people on this list would really like the
book, which i think is destined to be a milestone.  Toop is a perceptive
critic with wide tastes so he's able to draw (in a nicely understated way) a
lot of connections.  The book is published in the US by Serpent's Tail which
you probably can order even through a chain bookstore.

Best, Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ocean of Sound
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:22:59 -0500 (EST)



On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

>  Toop is a perceptive
> critic with wide tastes so he's able to draw (in a nicely understated way) a
> lot of connections.


A bit too understated for my taste.  I thought the book was
disappointingly anecdotal.  But the anecdotes are good ones, so if that's
what you're looking for...


Chris

Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze
Date: 24 Nov 1996 10:02:08 -0800

The In Memorium Gilles Deleuze 2cd set is great.  I had a lot of trouble
finding it, but it turned up at record store near where I live.  They
might still have it so heres their e-mail address:  [e-mail]
It's pretty expensive though, like $28.  I was looking in the Cd case for
Book of Heads and it a has Zorn discography that mentions all of these
releases with assorted sports titles, does anyone know where to get
these, or even what they are

  Thanks
 Jed
[e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> This is a bit off-topic but i've been trying to find an electronica
> compilation called In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze released by the German label
> Milles Plateaux.  Several mail-order companies have it in their catalog but
> are currently sold out and say there's some kind of distributor difficulties
> that'll take some time to resolve.  Does anybody know where i can get it?
>
> Thanks,
> Lang Thompson
> http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Zorns film music)
Date: 24 Nov 1996 15:46:55 +0100 (MET)

On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Kevin Neales wrote:

> I was checking out the imdb web site and ran Zorn's name.  They list a few
> movies that he has composed music for that I haven't heard of.  They are
> Thieve's Quartet, Hoelderlin Comics, Maoghai(aka Sadistic City).  Has
> anybody seen any of these movies.   Are the available on video.

Sadistic City was shown at a film festival here in Denmark, earlier this
year. I didn't see it, but I heard that it was very good, and that Zorn
soundtrack was also good, and worked well with the film.
I believe that Sadistic City is what the Japanese call a "pink movie",
which is something like softcore porn. The main character is played buy
the great japanese actor (and pop star?!?) Tomoroh Taguchi, who is also
in the two Tetsuo films, which I think Zorn likes quite a lot...
All I know about Thieves Quartet is that it was the first time Zorn
played with Baron, Douglas and Cohen as a quartet...

Has Zorn written any liner notes for Filmworks 3, 5 & 6? I think the ones
in the first Filmworks were very interesting...

Jonas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ReL drum and bass
Date: 24 Nov 1996 15:14:44 -0500 (EST)


All this talk of d'n'b prompted me to borrow Squarepusher's "Feed Me Weird
Things" and listen to it very closely (i'd heard it before in a car, but
wasn't paying too much attention).  WOW!!!!!!!  Thank you all for bringing
this topic up, as Squarepusher is like nothing i've ever heard
before...except maybe at raves, but at the time i was prbably too busy
dancing.  It sounds vaguely like jazz drum solos played at 78 rpm, put
through an effects processor, and re-edited at random.....it sounds
strange....it sounds wonderfull......it sounds like, ahhhhhhhhhhh - music!

Actually, it sounds vaguely like other things i've heard before.  Jazz
drum solos have already been mentioned, but to my mind (and maybe only to
my mind) people who like the crazy drum sensibilities of d'n'b might
really get into solo Tabla recordings.  Zakir Hussain and Ustad
Alla Rakha have CD out on Moment Music (Zakir's label) of a live Tabla
duet recorded a few years ago.  These are two of the best Tabla players
around right now, and together they make for a dizzy listening experience.

BTW, i found Richard James' (aka Aphex Twin) liner notes to the Squarepusher
album to be amusing.  Here's some of it, for those interested:

"Someone had just gotten glassed right in front of me at the george robey
pub, Finsbury, North London, and i was thining i wish i had stayed at
home in my studio.  Oh, i might as well stay and watch the bloke with the
bass guitar who keepswandering around behing the Dj booth.  That, i
thought, is almost certainly going to be good for a laugh.  The next
thing i felt was a fuzzy vibration as momophonic sound waves that had
travelled from the other side of the room at the speed of light,
compressing the air and displacing the smoke of ten spliffs, hit me in
both ear bones simultaneously.  It was Mr. Jenkinson, who was turning my
heartbeat into the sound of a ring piece modulated resonant phaselocked
trapezoid backwards edit phlanged kick drum.  He made the sound of
ambulances turn into slide trombones and the sound of a secretary filing
her nails into a 24-piece string section.  When my partner Grant
Wilson-Clarriarge saw Tom spasmodically twitching in order to play a
funky bassline in time with a 347 bpm drum and bass track, he thought he
should either be commited or recorded...(snip)...The Squarepucher is
someone who wonders what the holes of a flute sound like without the
flute.  Sound like sound never sounded before.  Richard Rogers and Julie
Andrews gave us the sound of music, John Cage and Simon Garfunkel gave us
the sound of silence and now the Squarepusher gives us the SOUND of SOUND"

-jascha

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (jonathan kaye)
Subject: Re: Ocean of Sound
Date: 24 Nov 1996 23:14:38 -0500

>The compilation album is great though a bit hard to find;
>
>Best, Lang Thompson
>http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

i ordered my copy from cd universe (www.cduniverse.com) and they delivered
it within a week. a bit expensive though ($36 u.s. including shipping i
think).

jon



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review
Date: 24 Nov 1996 22:26:04

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:52:59 -0500 Ellis wrote...
>High praise from the Plattsburgh mayor,

Aw, you didn't mention the best part--the mayor walking through the
camping area saying, "I don't want to sound ignorant, but what's a nug?"

It sounded like the fans around him told him it was a kind of cookie,
but I'm not sure.


-- Charles




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ambient & Paint
Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:55:51 PST

ZORN

for those of you in the New York City area, if you don't know already,
Zorn has a new piece premiering at the Knitting Factory at 8pm in the
main space, for 2 pianos, 2 violins & 2 keyboards. its called
Duras.......a composition inspired by the writings of Marguerite
Duras........

and later on downstairs............

STRAYLIGHT - an experimental ambient world music improv. trio

Geoff Gersh-guitar
Jason Finkelman-African/Brazilian percussion, voice
Charles Cohen-analog Buchla synthesizer
with performance painting by Mike Speranza
@ 11pm in the Alterknit Theater

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Frith on Zorn (very long)
Date: 25 Nov 1996 02:16:12 -0500 (EST)


I transcribe below a translation of the statements by Fred Frith about his
collaboration with John Zorn and about improvisation music, on the occasion
of a duo concert by both at the 1988 FIMAV in Quebec (October 8, 1988).
The concert and statements were transmitted by Radio Canada and the
translation was made from a tape of that FM transmission. Because I think
that it complements very well the statements by Frith, I also transcribe
here part of the response given by John Zorn to Derek Bailey, about the
same subject matter and as published in Derek Bailey, 1993: Improvisation,
Its Nature and Practice in Music, New York: DaCapo Press (Pp. 75-76). As
Patrice has indicated in his post to the list some time ago, there seems
to be a convergence of two conceptions or, better, two ways of considering
and, ultimately, playing free improvisational music in that collaboration
between Zorn and Frith.

Before proceeding, I have three points to make here.

First of all, my apologies for taking so long to finish the translation.
However, I have been away for the last two weeks as I had to go to
Portugal for very urgent family matters. I've been now trying to
put some order in my E-mail and the thousand and one confusing things
I found waiting for me when I came back. Among them, of course, to
finish this translation: what I just did.

Secondly, I received so many requests to E-mail it when ready that I
decided, if the list-owner allows it, to post the translation to the whole
list. To do it, I reduced it as much as possible, editing out all
references with no relation to the main theme. I hope my English is
understandable -- but both the list-owner or those interested can correct
my spelling, my grammar, etc. The important thing, for me, was to
communicate the real meaning and sense of what Frith said in French about
improvisation, about Zorn, and about his collaboration with Zorn. I know
that translators are "traitors" to the original (tradottore-traidore) but
I really tried to keep the meaning of Frith's statements as close to the
original as possible

Finally, for those who requested cassettes with copies of the full tape,
that is to say including the concert by Zorn and Frith (the presenter
calls it "Nine Variations on a Theme of Improvisation"), please contact me
again to my E-mail address.

Josey
__________________________________________________________________________

*** The statements by Fred Frith (October 8, 1988):

1.

Since the first day I arrived in New York I met people who were playing
improvised music. Because I was there, I was invited to be part of a great
band mainly composed by New-Yorkers but also by some musicians from other
parts of the United States, from Alabama or from California. That band had
been put together by John Zorn

Consequently, and since my arrival at the United States, I know a little
about improvised music as played by John Zorn.

Also since then, and throughout the last eight or nine years, we have been
playing together, as a kind of free improvisation duo. This is not a
permanent or regular thing but, every year, we play various concerts
together. These concerts have now become very special occasions for
both of us.

2.

To play music which is improvised it does not seem necessarily a good idea
to make plans beforehand. This is my experience.

When I had no practice playing this type of music, particularly solo, I
used to design plans of execution before the concerts. But I
soon discovered that those plans limited my spontaneity and that the
result was not free improvised music but a kind of series of linked
musical effects (a series of effects with links between them). And they
made my music very stiff.

It was only when I became convinced not to make plans in advance that I
really started to understand and learn how to play improvisational music.

3.

I also learned a lot with John Zorn because he is someone with a very
important musical force. Nowadays he is very famous but I discovered
this much before, when he had a small group of musicians around him in
New York, those musicians who wanted to play and work with him. He was
then completely unknown, he was not yet somehow fashionable and the media
didn't even want then to hear his name.

Things are, of course, very different now. John has become very famous and
this is very good -- very good also for all those who have been around him
all those years because now they can finally have better conditions to
work with him.

4.

(About FIMAV, the Victoriaville Festival, its audience and the "excellent"
conditions it offers to modern music and its players, etc).

5.

When I play with John Zorn as an improvisational duo, there is now
a kind of communication between us that is not very easy to explain. This
is because we have been playing so often together. We don't need, anymore,
to speak about what we play or look for and try to discover what are our
common structures.

Improvised music is something that is related with intuition. But
intuition is also something that probably can be developed by improvised
music.

Stockhaussen himself has said, already twenty five years ago, that
intuition is not something that exists or comes to the musician in some
days to disappear in others. Intuition is, rather, something that we can
learn with practice. When we have experience we can make musical
decisions immediately, on the spot, without having conscience of
making them. This is what I try to achieve when I am playing.

6.

For me, the duo is the ideal formation to play free improvised music. If
one has more than two persons then it becomes very complex. On the other
hand, if one plays and improvises alone, in solo, then it becomes like
some kind of a theatrical event, a way to present oneself to the audience.
But with a duo, there is the possibility of a kind of communication which
is essential to exist all the time.

This is the type of communication I have achieved with John when we
play together. It is indeed a surprising kind of communication which,
even after all these years, always surprises me.
_________________________________________________________________________

** Statements by John Zorn: reproduced from Derek Bailey, 1993:
Improvisation, Its Nature and Practice in Music, New York: Da Capo Press
(Pp. 75-76)

"I grew up in a scene of improvisors who over the course of the years
developed personal languages on our instruments. We grew through playing
with each other, listening to all kinds of music and creating a personal
approach towards our instrument.... What I was really fascinated with
was finding a way to harness these improvisors' talents in a compositional
framework without actually hindering what they did best -- which is
improvising. An improvisor wants to have the freedom to do anything at
any time. For a composer to give an improvisor a piece of music which said
"play these melodies then improvise -- then play with this guy -- then
improvise -- then play this figure -- then play this figure -- then
improvise', to me, that was defeating the purpose of what these people had
developed, which was a very particular way of relating to their
instruments and to each other. And I was interested in those
relationships.

"I don't talk about any sounds that anybody might make, I talk about the
improvisors themselves: "you can play with this person if you choose to or
in alternation with that person. But what you play is totally up to you
and who you decide to play with is up to you"" .
_____________________________________________________________________________



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze
Date: 24 Nov 1996 23:43:30 -0700

>  I was looking in the Cd case for
> Book of Heads and it a has Zorn discography that mentions all of these
> releases with assorted sports titles, does anyone know where to get
> these, or even what they are

Lacrosse is on "School"
Hockey is on "Pool"
and Archery is on "Archery"
I don't believe Fencing and Rugby have ever been released.
There are others that aren't listed, for ex. Pool and Dominos

Much of this is slated for reissue soon, on the 3cd Parachute Years thing.
--



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Friedrich Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron's ear protection
Date: 25 Nov 1996 09:58:34 +0100

hi folks,

is it possible that Joey Baron suffers from Tinitus? Many of the musicians
that I know, especially drummers, have had a temporary hearing loss, and
after that nothing is like before.

Fritz Feger

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark Perlson)
Subject: hard to find
Date: 25 Nov 1996 10:26:32 -0500

I happen to know where you can find Masada 7 & the new Derek Bailey
(Guitar, Drums n Bass).  If anyone is interested, please email me directly.

Enjoy!
Peace.

Mark

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Mark Perlson
Knitting Factory Works - Label Manager
74 Leonard St  NYC 10013
ph 212-219-3006  fax [phone]

www.knittingfactory.com



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: a few comments on recent list-events
Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:56:33 -0800


On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500  Landon Thorpe wrote:
>
> star leigh wall wrote:
>
> Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our
> most well-listened list-denizens?

Jeff and I have a huge intersection of musical interests. I guess, we need
sometimes to disagree :-). Don't worry, should be over now.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kurt Gottschalk <[e-mail]>
Subject: Seigen Ono
Date: 25 Nov 1996 20:46:01 -0500 (EST)

I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician
listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and
others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff
with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player
Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons
(a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can
anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know.

kurt


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review--uh, whoops
Date: 25 Nov 1996 20:24:31

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:26:04 ,
[e-mail] wrote...
<some crap having nothing to do with Zorn>

Ha.  Aren't I clever.  That was *supposed* to be a personal e-mail
to someone I know from rec.music.phish.  Ugh.  Sorry about that.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to say about drums n bass, and
I haven't gotten any Zorn-related CDs recently so I can't talk about
those...I'm wasting your time.  Sorry.


-- Charles




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Seigen Ono
Date: 25 Nov 1996 21:37:31 -0800

At 08:46 PM 11/25/96 -0500, Kurt Gottschalk wrote:
>I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician
>listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and
>others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff
>with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player
>Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons
>(a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can

Excellent music for time travel.


>anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know.

There are two volumes of this, it was runway music, I prefer Volume 1 for no
quantifiable reason.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: a few comments on recent list-events
Date: 25 Nov 1996 21:37:34 -0800

At 12:56 PM 11/25/96 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500  Landon Thorpe wrote:
>>
>> star leigh wall wrote:
>>
>> Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our
>> most well-listened list-denizens?
>
>Jeff and I have a huge intersection of musical interests. I guess, we need
>sometimes to disagree :-). Don't worry, should be over now.

Certainly is.



Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Seigen Ono
Date: 26 Nov 1996 9:59:15 EST

What is the title of this album and on what label?

>
> I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician
> listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and
> others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff
> with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player
> Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons
> (a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can
> anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know.
>
> kurt
>
>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Seigen Ono
Date: 26 Nov 1996 07:49:04 -0800

At 09:59 AM 11/26/96 EST, M.Ho wrote:
>What is the title of this album and on what label?

There are two:

Commes des Garcons, Volume 1
Commes des Garcons, Volume 2

Both on Virgin Venture.

Mine appear to be intended for Europe, not sure if they were ever released
as domestically in the US.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: silver whale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Red Snapper
Date: 26 Nov 1996 19:00:02 +0200 (GMT+0200)


One more recommendation to the drum'n'bass thread: Red Snapper. I just
recently became aware of this fine band and frankly, I'm blown away.

They somehow manage to play live drum'n'bass. I know that may not sound
that promising (to me, anyway) or even possible, but they manage to pull
it off. And quite mightily, as well. The band (sax, double-bass,
el.guitar, drums, occasional vocal) play great and solos are kept to the
minimum (so no acid-jazz noodling here :)  There's lot of strange
processing and delay effects (even more than on standard d'n'b!) and
unsuprisingly the engineer, Tim Holmes is credited as a bandmember.

I'm not sure if it's 100% live (there seem to be some percussion loops
here and there), but it doesn't matter: it's a hell of an album!

 teemu


OnNow:Red Snapper:'Space Sickness' (sounds like Photek jammin' with
                                    Charlie Haden and Zorn on sax...)

-------------
e-mail: [e-mail]           "There was coffee. Life would go on."
Ruumen homepage:                      William Gibson:'The Winter Market'
http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Olivier Nguyen Van Tan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Digest problem for number 35
Date: 26 Nov 1996 22:57:27 +0100

Sorry, I didn't receive the digest number 35...

Someone can check?

Olivier


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marcus Klein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Kopie von: Red Snapper
Date: 26 Nov 1996 19:38:07 EST

>>I'm not sure if it's 100% live (there seem to be some
>>percussion loops  here and there), but it doesn't matter: it's
>>a hell of an album!

And it is a cool live-show my apartment-mate said.

He has seen them here in Cologne together with Long Fin Kilie and referring to
my apartment-mate, he is playing bass, they were really playin' a hell of
LIVE-show.

Til then,

26.11.1996, Marcus Klein


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marcus Klein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Kopie von: Red Snapper
Date: 26 Nov 1996 20:07:25 EST

>>I'm not sure if it's 100% live (there seem to be some
>>percussion loops  here and there), but it doesn't matter: it's
>>a hell of an album!

And it is a cool live-show my apartment-mate said.

He has seen them here in Cologne together with Long Fin Kilie and referring to
my apartment-mate, he is playing bass, they were really playin' a hell of
LIVE-show.

Til then,

26.11.1996, Marcus Klein


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Carlson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ambient & Paint
Date: 26 Nov 1996 21:09:46 -0600 (CST)

At 12:55 AM 11/25/96 PST, you wrote:
>ZORN
>
>for those of you in the New York City area, if you don't know already,
>Zorn has a new piece premiering at the Knitting Factory at 8pm in the
>main space, for 2 pianos, 2 violins & 2 keyboards. its called
>Duras.......a composition inspired by the writings of Marguerite
>Duras........


It is actually for 2 percussionists, 2 violins, and 2 keyboards

Brian

Learn as if to live forever; live as if to die tomorrow - unknown


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sphere Mktg
Date: 26 Nov 1996 22:13:33 -0600



I received an Email from Sphere Mktg in NY who are having a clearance blow out
sale.... They are distributors for Black Saint and Avant to name but a few...
Hundreds of hard to find jazz gems and selections from the Avant catalogue... I
just ordered 10 cd's (around $9 ea;) ... Among my selections are "The Sonny
Clark Memorial (Zorn, Horvitz) A Pigpen and Horvitz cd with bassist William
Parker...Eric Friedlander's "Chimera", Anton Fier, Joe Morris, Ellery Eskelin
and a bunch of others.... If anyone is interested I'll forward this email by
request only. It's a rather large message so..... I have no affiliation with
them, but thought it would be of interest. It's a great sale and features
numerous titles of those hard to get cd's that seldom appear in your local cd
joint...Let me know......


glenn

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sphere
Date: 27 Nov 1996 06:53:18 -0600

Folks,

I just sent a bunch of emails to those who requested the Sphere Mktg email. I
have experienced some strange error messages while sending this. For those who
didn't get a clean copy email me privately and at worst, I'll provide the phone
#s and email address for Sphere....

glenn

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: The Tubes
Date: 27 Nov 1996 18:09:54 GMT


Ray Peck <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Subject: The Tubes
>
> >That band is called "The Mistakes", & they have one album out on Immune. The
> >lineup is Henry & Mike + bassist Andy West (ex Dregs) & drummer Prairie
> >Prince (ex Tubes). It sounds like they are all having a lot of fun on it.
>
> The Tubes are no longer ex.  They've got a new album out, which I
> recently picked up.

Called "Genius Of America".

> It's pretty similar to "Completion Backward Principle" and "Inside/Outside",

I'd say more like Fee Waybill's "Read My Lips".

>  Not the experimentalism of their last (and IMO best) album, "Love Bomb"

How right you are.

> (which was produced by Rundgren)

Which begs the question, "Why did Fee ever agree to do Love Bomb after
stating that he would never work with Rundgren again after he re-recorded
most of the vocals on Remote Control?"

> Anyway, most of the old gang is back, minus Bill Spooner and Vince
> Welnick.

You forgot Michael Cotton, though he is mentioned on the cover, as is
Re Styles.

> Anyway, probably nobody here cares, so fffth.

You couldn't be more wrong!

Dem (who also gives a very big thumbs up to The Mistakes album, and why was
     there no mention of Henry's Heart's Desire album in the recent thread?)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Joey Baron quartet
Date: 30 Nov 1996 21:29:58 +0100 (MET)

Why has nobody mentioned the new Joey Baron quartet?!?
In the November issue of Down Beat there's a small interview with Baron, and
he mentions that he is forming the quartet with Ron Carter, Arthur Blythe
and Bill Frisell. They will be playing some of Baron's tunes and some
standarts, and they will record for the Intuition label.

There's also a interview with Don Byron, which is pretty good...

Jonas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Yamantaka Eye
Date: 30 Nov 1996 21:30:21 +0100 (MET)

What has Yamantaka Eye been doing in 1996? Has he been playing with Zorn?
It seems to me, that Eye was very busy all 1995, playing and recording with
Zorn, Otomo Yoshihide, Boredoms, Destroy 2, Shinro Ohtake etc... But I've
only heard of very few Eye concerts in 96 and I don't know if he has recorded
anything. All the Eye records that has been released this year, was recorded
in 95.
Just wondering...

The Destroy 2 mini cd "We Are Voice And Rythm Only" is great! It's Eye on
vocals and Chew on drums, playing their way through 48 songs in 10 minutes.
They even do a few cover tunes. One of the best cds released in 1996 (so
far...)

Jonas (who just heard that Merzbow will release a 50 cd box set :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang
Date: 30 Nov 1996 13:23:37 -0800


On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:30:38 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:
>
> How many records does Eyvind Kang play on?
> I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet", but I remember someone said
> something about a record with the Sun City Girls, and a live one where he
> improvised.
> A few recommendations would be nice...

I will have to dig my archives, but I know at least two other ones:

    - GILNET (1996 - Cavity Search, ??? (CD))
    - ???: Eyvind Kang (1995 - Rabid God Innoculator, ??? (7"))

Very coarse information, I have to say but I will check.

    Patrice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang
Date: 30 Nov 1996 17:55:19 -0500


On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:30:38 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:

>How many records does Eyvind Kang play on?
> I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet",

He's also on one of the two recent Sun City Girls double CDs, 330,003
Crossdressers from Beyond the Rig Veda, where he is the focus of a half-hour
long jam which is my favorite thing by him on record and he's on the recent
Joe McPhee CD on Deep Listening, called Common Threads, I think.

Patrice, you said:

<<- GILNET (1996 - Cavity Search, ??? (CD))>>

Does this actually exist? Has anyone seen it?

Jon


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang
Date: 30 Nov 1996 16:45:33 -0800

>How many records does Eyvind Kang play on?
>I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet", but I remember someone said
>something about a record with the Sun City Girls, and a live one where he
>improvised.
>A few recommendations would be nice...
>
>Jonas

OK, let me go briefly into self promotion-mode here. I have a few copies
left of a 10" vinyl compilation ep "The 7th Sign of Stress", on Gettin'
Grumpy records that is Eyvind's first commercial recording, in a trio
called Shovedevil with Mark France on guitar and myself on bass and
electronics. The other featured bands are Das Neonderthrall and Arcweld,
and the package includes some pretty incredible artwork by Seth Skundrick.
Copies are $10.00, incl. US Postage, email me for details.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang
Date: 30 Nov 1996 19:10:46 -0800


On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:55:19 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:30:38 +0100 (MET)  Torsten Nielsen wrote:
>
> >How many records does Eyvind Kang play on?
> > I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet",
>
> He's also on one of the two recent Sun City Girls double CDs, 330,003
> Crossdressers from Beyond the Rig Veda, where he is the focus of a half-hour
> long jam which is my favorite thing by him on record and he's on the recent
> Joe McPhee CD on Deep Listening, called Common Threads, I think.
>
> Patrice, you said:
>
> <<- GILNET (1996 - Cavity Search, ??? (CD))>>
>
> Does this actually exist? Has anyone seen it?

Sure! I have a copy. It is also advertized in the last issue of
Option.

    Patrice.