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From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr> Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh Date: 01 Nov 2001 12:00:39 +0200 I agree with what wrote Jon. How could it be else :-) Le Quan Ninh is a so great musician. I definitely recommend 3 some recent cds: "La voyelle liquide" with Gunter Muller on Erstwhile. "Quatuor Helios" on Vandoeuvre label (fantastic!) "Credo in us" on Wergo label. (John Cage's compositions played by french Quatuor Helios). Jacques Oger > > >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:43:25 EST >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh > >In a message dated 10/31/01 12:37:23 PM, efrendv@yahoo.es writes: > ><< who/what is Le Quan Ninh?. Whatever it is, > >will be playing in Barcelona next week and I'd like to > >know if it's interesting. >> > >Ninh is one of the premier percussionists in the world, working both in >improv and in modern classical. his web site is at http://ninh.free.fr, >there's a bio on the Euro Free Improv site (www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/), >and there was just a long audio sample posted at www.allsound.org. > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com > >- - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: recommendation request Date: 01 Nov 2001 23:30:21 +1100 Hey folks, I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these artists: - Sun Ra - Albert Ayler - Elliot Sharp I've got a really small amount of each (a track or two on a compilation, that kind of thing) and think it is time I got more... Thanks, Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 01 Nov 2001 16:04:12 +0100 > I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these > artists: > - Elliot Sharp I would be helped myself to know where to start with Mr Sharp. I know about a fairly recent cd where he tackles the blues: Elliot Sharp's Terraplane has a title out on Knitting Factory. That should be a nice place to start, although I have no clear oversight regarding his other works. > - Sun Ra > - Albert Ayler For the two above, my help might be more fruitful. Sun Ra's work is divided in different styles and periods. I would simply advise you to listen to at least ten titles, all from different periods. From 1964 on, it was all free jazz, and in late seventies trad jazz creeped back in. Any Cook&Morton, or rough guide to jazz might help you in choosing titles, but it is also a matter of availability which ones you choose to listen first. 'Evidence' has a greatest hits album, but that one surpasses any sonic experiment. Earlier experiments in jazz: Fate in a pleasant mood/ When Sun Comes Out For spacey, experimental albums: Other planes of there Heliocentric Worlds vol 1&2 (I wrote the liner notes for those, so I am sorry for the propaganda. They just sound really good) Groovy albums: The Great Lost Sun Ra Albums (a double cd) Then, at some point in the seventies, Sun Ra's Arkestra revived parts of jazz history in their music. You just have to hear some of those concerts where the history of jazz is rehashed in a few hours. Albert Ayler made an album on Impulse, which has something of everything he does, and more: Love Cry. One of his cool early concerts with his brother Donald is to be found on Spirits Rejoice (again I wrote some *butcheredbyhalfbraineditors* notes on the cd-re-release, but it IS great music). Live at Greenwich Village, and also Aylers breakthrough album Spiritual Unity are must haves for anyone interested in John Zorn and free sax playing in general. There are many concerts and early sessions released after Aylers death in 1970. All of them are interesting, but not many of them sound well. Also Impulse played a strange role in Aylers brief soul or jazz rock career. Two or three albums are in this vein. They are pretty rare nowadays, and contain strange, uneasy mixtures of main stream pop music, r'n'b sax honking, and pseudospiritual chants. Aylers early record with 'Spirituals and Gospels' is out of print for a long time now. Hope this helps, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= <blackoperations13@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: THE PRESTIDIGITATORS on oTo, etc. Date: 01 Nov 2001 18:08:24 +0000 (GMT) THE PRESTIDIGITATORS oTo T34 (cassette tape ltd. 50 numbered copys) "Beautifully brutal jazz-noise aggro. Totally exhilarating blow-out catharsis. Absolutely drives you sane. One of my (Rob's) personal faves. As good as any noise you'll hear this year, guaranteed." Michael Gillham (drums, sax, guitar, turntable, electronics) Bennett (guitar, electronics) For mp3 sample and more information link to oTo via FFR. http://www.fencingflatworm.cjb.net/ Still available: MICHAEL GILLHAM oTo T22 (cassette tape ltd. 50 numbered copys) "A wonderful swarm of guitar drones. Like being a grub eating honey in your hexagonal cell and listening to the rest of ther hive go about the day." Michael Gillham (organ, electronics) For mp3 sample and more information link to oTo via FFR. http://www.fencingflatworm.cjb.net/ ____________________________________________________________ Nokia Game is on again. Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new all media adventure before November 3rd. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu> Subject: RE: recommendation request Date: 01 Nov 2001 13:07:44 -0700 - Sun Ra check out "cosmic tones / art forms" - Albert Ayler The Greenwich Village 2CD set on Impulse is good ("Marching Band on Acid" stuff) "My Name is Albert Ayler" gives a good sense of his playing within a standard setting and then there's "spiritual Unity" and "Bells/Prophecy" formerly on ESP but now reissued by Get Back and Calibre. ...depends what you're looking for - Elliot Sharp no comment. Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 03:11:04 -0500 Hello, ....some thoughts on Ra and Ayler....the Arkestra's "Concert For the Comet Kohoutek" is one of my favorites from the group's experimental era and it will probably be reissued by Eclipse sometime on the not far distant future. The wild assed synth playing particularly stands out on this one. Regarding Ayler, most of the bases seem to have been covered, but I'll mention the "New York Eye & Ear Control" soundtrack with Don Cherry, John Tchicai, Roswell Rudd, Gary Peacock, and Sunny Murray. Some people belittle this one, but it's always sounded good to me. It's a nice collective gush. Another good one is Sunny Murry's recording "Sonny's Time Now" w/ Ayler, Cherry, Henry Grimes, Louis Worrell, and Leroi Jones. Gnawing, unsettling music that has given me gooseflesh on more than a few occasions. The Ayler to start w/ IMHO is "Spiritual Unity", though. ...haven't heard much E. Sharp. Always wanted to pick up that Bootstrappers rec he was on w/ Hurley and Watt. How was that one? I remain..... Joseph NP: Dominic Duval/Jason Kao Hwang "The Experiment" CD NR: Nicholson Baker "The Mezzanine" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann <TimBlechmann@gmx.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 09:47:19 +0100 Hi Julian, J> I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these J> - Elliot Sharp "SyndaKit", a composition for 12 musicians "Blackburst" (w/ Zeena Parkins), e# as an improviser "High Noon" (w/ Christian Marclay), improvised stuff, too "Amusia", his more rock like stuff collaborations: Zorn/Previte/Horvitz/Sharp: "Downtown Lullaby", four grandmasters of improvised music doing their best I haven't heard his blues album on knitting factory, yet, but if it is similar to their performance in saalfelden this year, it should be a fine record, too. and there are some samples at mp3.com. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" <db@biink.com> Subject: Re: angry zorns Date: 02 Nov 2001 10:45:53 -0500 Any one here attend? Did Laswell show up? * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 03 Nov 2001 10:26:50 -0800 Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with all my heart. It not only contains hours of great performances, but also provides a strong career overview. Can't recommend many things in life this highly. skip h > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 13:34:16 EST In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: << Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with all my heart. It not only contains hours of great performances, but also provides a strong career overview. Can't recommend many things in life this highly. >> wow, I was a little worried when I actually agreed with Skip about something (Fela/Laswell), but now I feel like things are back to normal again. I'd suggest getting almost any pre-1980 Sun Ra disc before getting the Singles, to me it captures very little of what makes him so great. my faves are Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy, Other Planes Of There, Black Myth/Out In Space, Atlantis, and both volumes of Heliocentric Worlds. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 03 Nov 2001 10:58:31 -0800 > > In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > > << Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with > all > my heart. It not only contains hours of great performances, but also > provides a strong career overview. Can't recommend many things in life this > highly. >> > > wow, I was a little worried when I actually agreed with Skip about something > (Fela/Laswell), but now I feel like things are back to normal again. > > I'd suggest getting almost any pre-1980 Sun Ra disc before getting the > Singles, to me it captures very little of what makes him so great. my faves > are Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy, Other Planes Of There, Black Myth/Out In > Space, Atlantis, and both volumes of Heliocentric Worlds. > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > - > Well, your recommendations are certain great (espec Heliocentric Worlds), but I've found -- during my years as a retail clerk and even since -- that if you get into Sun Ra's earliest phase and then follow his progression outward, it gets a little more user-friendly. My first Ra LP was Heliocentric Worlds Vol 2, and I couldn't get near it. Then I got hipped to Sound Sun Pleasure and Sound Of Joy, and was hooked, so by the time I got back to the sixties albums, I was pretty much drooling. And, among those I've talked to about this, my story is pretty typical. His language -- musically -- during the free period seems a little less easily explained than -- as an example only -- someone like Cecil Taylor, so it helps to make it there with some vocab under your belt. Also, in ref to the singles, "The Blue Set" is absolutely one of the pinnacle moments of him, and I cannot recommend this one heavily enough to anyone who wants to hear what separates Ra fr the rest of jazz composers while tying him ineffably to the tradition. skip h np: caetano veloso, prenda minha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 14:28:16 EST In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with all > my heart. It not only contains hours of great performances, but also > provides a strong career overview. Can't recommend many things in life this > highly. > > skip h Then let me second Skip's recommendation. THE SINGLES is perhaps my favorite Sun Ra release. Hey, you can dance to it. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com> Subject: RE: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 14:32:16 -0500 I'd have to go with Skip on this one; The first albums I heard were the two Heliocentric worlds, and they scared me off for a year or two. Blue delight brought me back around (tough to find now), but i've since come to enjoy the 50's chicago period probably more than any other. The singles IS a decent overview, and can help you nail down which periods you prefer. If you really dig the freejazz caterwauling bliss thing, go with Jon's recommendations, if you want to ease in a bit more gently, check the 50's stuff and go forward thru time, but DEFINITELY check out more than one or two albums. His catalog warrants it. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 1:59 PM > > In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > > << Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with > all > my heart. It not only contains hours of great performances, but also > provides a strong career overview. Can't recommend many things in life this > highly. >> > > wow, I was a little worried when I actually agreed with Skip about something > (Fela/Laswell), but now I feel like things are back to normal again. > > I'd suggest getting almost any pre-1980 Sun Ra disc before getting the > Singles, to me it captures very little of what makes him so great. my faves > are Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy, Other Planes Of There, Black Myth/Out In > Space, Atlantis, and both volumes of Heliocentric Worlds. > > Jon > www.erstwhilerecords.com > > - > Well, your recommendations are certain great (espec Heliocentric Worlds), but I've found -- during my years as a retail clerk and even since -- that if you get into Sun Ra's earliest phase and then follow his progression outward, it gets a little more user-friendly. My first Ra LP was Heliocentric Worlds Vol 2, and I couldn't get near it. Then I got hipped to Sound Sun Pleasure and Sound Of Joy, and was hooked, so by the time I got back to the sixties albums, I was pretty much drooling. And, among those I've talked to about this, my story is pretty typical. His language -- musically -- during the free period seems a little less easily explained than -- as an example only -- someone like Cecil Taylor, so it helps to make it there with some vocab under your belt. Also, in ref to the singles, "The Blue Set" is absolutely one of the pinnacle moments of him, and I cannot recommend this one heavily enough to anyone who wants to hear what separates Ra fr the rest of jazz composers while tying him ineffably to the tradition. skip h np: caetano veloso, prenda minha - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" <jim@webmind.com> Subject: RE: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 11:58:16 -0800 Hi --- I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these artists: - Sun Ra --- Oh, so many to choose from. Here are my favorites: - Sun Song: early release, great sound. Inside with a twinge of weirdness in the arrangements. - Jazz in Silhouette: Also a greatly arranged, lush. Like the above, you really see sun ra's roots in traditional jazz a la his idol Fletcher Henderson. - The Singles: great 2 CD collection of rare material including side projects he did conducting doo-wop groups. I have to disagree with Jon on this - these are some of the most unique recordings in his discography compared to the myriad of "out" records, so I consider it pretty essential. - Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy / Art Forms of a Dimension Tommorrow: (second someone elses recomendation). This is my fav of the more out stuff (Heliocentri worlds a close second), with some nasty inter-galactic groove/swing thrown in occasionally. - Lanquidity: Recently re-issued rare lp, kind of a spacy funk thing form the 70's, closer to a 70's miles sound (but by no means the same). Lots of reverb. More funk than swing compared to other Ra discs. there are many others I like, including a later album with all walt disney tunes (on Leo), but that's a start. --- - Albert Ayler --- Spiritual Unity --- - Elliot Sharp --- - I second the Terraplane recommendation, as I really like the blue/drumnbass mix on the second CD, and Sim Cain's electronic/acoustic drumming is awesome. The first CD of more straight ahead blues material is good, but I don't listen to it as much. - Monster Curve is a nice compilation of early Carbon material which is pretty essential to his discography. - Tectonics: Field and Stream. This is more electronic / drumnbass stuff, mixing guitar, laptop generated beats, sax. Mostly composed/performed by Sharp. Enjoy... JM - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 12:02:02 -0800 Skip Heller wrote: > > Well, your recommendations are certain great (espec Heliocentric Worlds), > but I've found -- during my years as a retail clerk and even since -- that > if you get into Sun Ra's earliest phase and then follow his progression > outward, it gets a little more user-friendly. I dunno, my first exposure was to _It's After the End of the World_ (the single-disc predecessor to the _Black Myth/Out in Space_ set), in my junior year of high school, and it slotted right in ... during a time when I was pretty well burned out on "jazz" of any type (Dad's records). I think the question has really different answers depending on where you're coming *from* ... someone with an alt-rock/noise/experimental background (and *not* a straight jazz one) is gonna find the early material, well, normal, and not see what all the fuss is about, but will pick up on the shrieking moog solos from the early 70s straight off; someone coming from the jazz end is going to be able to distinguish what's different about the 50s material, and follow along as things go further outside, but might be put off by the apparent chaos of the other stuff. What kinda record store were you working in, anyway? My list'd probably be about the same as Jon's, except I'd substitute _Astro Black_ for _Atlantis_ -- although _Atlantis_ is certainly gonna be easier to find at this point. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton nr: Tristan Egolf, _Lord of the Barnyard_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith36@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 15:01:39 -0500 Most of my personal Ra favorites, interestingly enough, are live sets. 'Nothing Is' is my favorite of his ESP discs - I return to it much more than to either volume of 'Heliocentric.' 'It's After the End of the World' on the German MPS label has some mighty wiggy synth excursions. 'Live in Montreux' is a long out-of-print 2LP set on Inner City that's worth the price if you find it - an extraordinary latter-day set that perches on the precipice between the earlier wildness and the latter day novelty swing band. 'Sunrise in Different Dimensions' on hat Art is similiar, if more conservative - though there's some incindiary alto from Marshall Allen, naturally - and might prove an ideal introduction for the newcomer (it certainly did for me). Lucky me, I saw the Arkestra twice in the late '80s. The first time, I drove a buncha hours from San Antonio to Ft. Worth to see the band. You could talk your way backstage at the Caravan of Dreams pretty easily back then, so I did. Ra was holding forth for a crowd about the malleable nature of time. During a lecture at Harvard the previous week, he informed us, he stopped all of the clocks on campus simultaneously using the strength of his mind. I grabbed one of the club's cheap-ass promo posters and got it signed by Ra, Gilmore, Allen, Pat Patrick, Danny Ray Thompson... treasured. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Snoop Doggy Dogg, "Murder Was the Case (Remix)," 'Death Row's Snoop Doggy Dogg Greatest Hits' (Death Row) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com> Subject: RE: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 15:02:02 -0500 Live at Montreux IS killer, and I've seen repressings recently on ebay for decent prices. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of ssmith36@sprynet.com Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 3:02 PM Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Most of my personal Ra favorites, interestingly enough, are live sets. 'Nothing Is' is my favorite of his ESP discs - I return to it much more than to either volume of 'Heliocentric.' 'It's After the End of the World' on the German MPS label has some mighty wiggy synth excursions. 'Live in Montreux' is a long out-of-print 2LP set on Inner City that's worth the price if you find it - an extraordinary latter-day set that perches on the precipice between the earlier wildness and the latter day novelty swing band. 'Sunrise in Different Dimensions' on hat Art is similiar, if more conservative - though there's some incindiary alto from Marshall Allen, naturally - and might prove an ideal introduction for the newcomer (it certainly did for me). Lucky me, I saw the Arkestra twice in the late '80s. The first time, I drove a buncha hours from San Antonio to Ft. Worth to see the band. You could talk your way backstage at the Caravan of Dreams pretty easily back then, so I did. Ra was holding forth for a crowd about the malleable nature of time. During a lecture at Harvard the previous week, he informed us, he stopped all of the clocks on campus simultaneously using the strength of his mind. I grabbed one of the club's cheap-ass promo posters and got it signed by Ra, Gilmore, Allen, Pat Patrick, Danny Ray Thompson... treasured. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Snoop Doggy Dogg, "Murder Was the Case (Remix)," 'Death Row's Snoop Doggy Dogg Greatest Hits' (Death Row) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 03 Nov 2001 12:16:36 -0800 > Live at Montreux IS killer, and I've seen repressings recently on ebay for > decent prices. sean > Also, gotta recommend the post-humous SOUND OF THE SUN, with the Arkestra under the direction of Marshall Allen, produced by Terry Adams, who knew what he was doing. skip h np: more live caetano (god, this guy is terrifying) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 03 Nov 2001 12:18:24 -0800 On the Elliot Sharp tip, nobody has mentioned BOOTSTRAPPERS, which pairs him with one of my fav rhythm sections of all time (Watt and Hurley). Not a killer all the way through, but enough moments to keep you interested. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 12:28:00 -0800 Buy or rent the video: Sun Ra: A Joyful Noise http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/sun_ra_991014.html The first time I heard any Sun Ra music was at Myron's Ballroom in Los Angeles in the early 80s. I didn't know who Sun Ra was and went with a friend who did. That experience remains the pinnacle of my music experiences. We left at 2am, and there was no sign of the Arkestra slowing down. Unfortunately, no recording comes close to the live experience, but watch the video. His presence is sheer delight. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 12:40:25 -0800 Sun Ra Videos: http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry/tape_f.htm Sun Ra: A Joyful Noise is now on DVD. Available at barnesandnoble.com and other places - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 03 Nov 2001 12:48:41 -0800 > > caetano veloso ? terrifying? >> >> np: more live caetano (god, this guy is terrifying) >> Anyone this good this often scares the hell out of me. And every record he's made with Jaques Morelenbaum absolute knocks me over. I just can't get over their work together. It's like Miles/Gil meets Sinatra/Riddle. On those rare occasions where a partnership works this well this consistently, it just scares the hell out of me. skip h np: best of little walter (also as good as it gets) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 03 Nov 2001 12:49:50 -0800 > Sun Ra Videos: > http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry/tape_f.htm > > Sun Ra: A Joyful Noise is now on DVD. > Available at barnesandnoble.com and other places > > > - > I have a crappy bootleg of SPACE IS THE PLACE. Heard it's out in PAL format, but is it out legit in regular VHS format? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 12:57:55 -0800 Skip Heller wrote: > > I have a crappy bootleg of SPACE IS THE PLACE. Heard it's out in PAL > format, but is it out legit in regular VHS format? It was for a while, but it's gone out of print. According to a statement by the producer on the Saturn list a few weeks ago, negotiations are currently under way to bring out a new US version. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton nr: Tristan Egolf, _Lord of the Barnyard_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 13:04:13 -0800 Jim Flannery wrote: > > negotiations are currently under way to bring out a new US version. Sorry, to be more precise (now that I've actually gone back & reread the damn email), he was *looking* for a distributor to negotiate with (as of mid-September); don't know if that's borne fruit yet. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton nr: Tristan Egolf, _Lord of the Barnyard_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry <Moudry@uab.edu> Subject: Fwd: Re: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 15:37:15 -0600 <snip!> >I grabbed one of the club's cheap-ass promo posters and got it >signed by Ra, Gilmore, Allen, Pat Patrick, Danny Ray Thompson... >treasured. > >Steve Smith >ssmith36@sprynet.com <snip!> Steve, How much would it cost me to have that poster linked with my name in your last will & testament (and yes: I realise that I'm probably much longer in the tooth than you...)? Saturnally, -- Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, UAB Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz); <http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry> Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --de la Vega - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net> Subject: Tomahawk opinions wanted Date: 02 Nov 2001 18:00:03 -0400 Hello list, has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project TOMAHAWK? What the album like? What kind of music do they play? Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. FAITH NO MORE: angel dust - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 02 Nov 2001 20:27:35 EST well, I'll pull out the Singles again and check it out. but I recall finding Sun Ra's doo wop tunes about as interesting as George Clinton's (that is to say, fine, but much less so than his later work.) Steve said: << Lucky me, I saw the Arkestra twice in the late '80s. >> me too, the first being a pretty important experience in my musical development. in 1986 (possibly '87?), I was an undergrad at Columbia, and while I was a big music fan, it mostly consisted of stuff like the Clash, the Ramones, the Talking Heads, Devo, not to mention Bruce Springsteen, being the good Jersey boy that I was. my jazz exposure was minimal at best, probably zero at that point. anyway, my friends dragged me down to see Sun Ra, who I'd never heard of before, play in the bandshell in Central Park. we got there just as it was starting and parked ourselves right at the foot of the stage. I was riveted; I'd never seen anything like it. when someone asked me last year about memorable experiences that got me interested in experimental music, this was the first one I came up with. thank you, King Sonny. "It's after the end of the world, don't you know that yet?" Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: theremin cd w/caine, feldman... Date: 04 Nov 2001 01:56:40 +1100 Thanks everyone for the great recommendations! I just have one more query... the other day I saw a cd with Uri Caine, Mark Feldman and a theremin player (can't remember the name), and possibly some other musicians... I think it was called Theremin Noir. Does anyone know what it is like? It looks interesting enough, and is in some nice packaging, just wondering whether it's worth picking up? Thanks, Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann <TimBlechmann@gmx.net> Subject: Re: theremin cd w/caine, feldman... Date: 03 Nov 2001 17:00:32 +0100 > Thanks everyone for the great recommendations! > I just have one more query... the other day I saw a cd with Uri Caine, Mark > Feldman and a theremin player (can't remember the name), and possibly some > other musicians... I think it was called Theremin Noir. Does anyone know > what it is like? It looks interesting enough, and is in some nice packaging, > just wondering whether it's worth picking up? Rob Schwimmer is the name you were looking for. it is a very interesting recording. try to get it! PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU> Subject: TomaHawk Date: 03 Nov 2001 23:03:31 +0100 Zorn agains, "countingmurders" in group "Mr. Bungle" on "www.audiogalaxy.com" sent me all the TomaHawk tracks without me even knowing they were released. Another good reason to join the "ZornListGalaxy" group. That way you can ask to preview the tracks too. greetings, Rob @ risk np: Hasidic N Wave - ok dear, who ? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RAcommendation RAquest Date: 04 Nov 2001 02:08:03 +0000 >From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com> > > > I have a crappy bootleg of SPACE IS THE PLACE. Surprised no one recommended the original Space Is The Place album on Impulse (not the soundtrack on Evidence, although that has its moments). And I always thought Mayan Temples on Black Saint was one of the better latter day releases. Plus is anyone familiar with an album Sun Ra did with Egyptian star Farid El Atrache? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." <parksplace@hotmail.com> Subject: Book M Date: 04 Nov 2001 22:44:55 -0500 Does any one understand the text on the actual disc of Book M? Some of it seems to be Kabalistic numbers. Is this right? By the way, it's a fabulous album. Their best album to date. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" <ricardoviseu@hotmail.com> Subject: avant / ZORN + HAINO + OTOMO Date: 05 Nov 2001 10:46:15 +0000 can someone tell me were I can find a complete Avant catalogue? Is there any record featuring Zorn with Keiji Haino or Otomo Yoshihide? _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale jß. ╔ gratuito! http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: avant / ZORN + HAINO + OTOMO Date: 05 Nov 2001 06:28:03 -0500 At 10:46 AM 11/5/01 +0000, Ricardo Jorge wrote: >can someone tell me were I can find a complete Avant catalogue? The Downtown Music Gallery at http://www.dtmgallery.com has one. >Is there any record featuring Zorn with Keiji Haino or Otomo Yoshihide? The first Ground Zero has both Zorn and Otomo. The Zorn discography at http://www.wnur.org/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html lists a couple of other even more obscure Otomo albums that feature Zorn, one of which also features Keiji Haino (all three on one track even!). Check the discography for complete info. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted Date: 05 Nov 2001 16:07:39 +0100 (CET) > > Hello list, > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project > TOMAHAWK? What the album > like? What kind of music do they play? > > Thanks > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ Hi Neil and everyone, I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I can just say it's been a major dissappointment. Although they presented the group as a superband, there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in that release, it's not your record for sure. I would say they are a rock band with nothing particularly outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as usual. There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring the first song of the album, which is probably the worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a horrible song. I'd love to be more positive, I swear. Best, EfrΘn _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew Mitchell" <matmi@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted Date: 05 Nov 2001 10:34:19 -0500 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I quite like the album, actually. Its got the patented old-school reverb so present on many Bungle and Bungle-related Cds, which may or may not be good, depending on preferences. The production is detailed but dark, with a general murkiness that serves the album well, I think. Its pretty menacing, not always in an obvious way. It rocks pretty hard, too. Its a grower, to be sure; I wasn't too into it the first time, but that's definitely been changing. Just don't expect Fantomas or Bungle - though I'm sure everyone will. It IS about 5,000 times more interesting than Faith No More, but that isn't really too hard; I do think they were one of the most overrated bands ever. About 10,000 times more interesting than the new Tool album, which is a conservative rating on my part. I find though, that most new rock music (not talking extreme metal here), that is, 'song-oriented' music, for the lack of a better term, falls pretty short these days. -matt ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 11/5/01 10:07:39 AM wanted Hello list, has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project TOMAHAWK? What the album like? What kind of music do they play? Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ Hi Neil and everyone, I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I can just say it's been a major dissappointment. Although they presented the group as a superband, there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in that release, it's not your record for sure. I would say they are a rock band with nothing particularly outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as usual. There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring the first song of the album, which is probably the worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a horrible song. I'd love to be more positive, I swear. Best, Efr?n _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci?n instant?nea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - --- Matthew Mitchell --- matmi@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>I quite like the album, actually. Its got the patented old-school reverb so present on many Bungle and Bungle-related Cds, which may or may not be good, depending on preferences. The production is detailed but dark, with a general murkiness that serves the album well, I think. Its pretty menacing, not always in an obvious way. It rocks pretty hard, too. Its a grower, to be sure; I wasn't too into it the first time, but that's definitely been changing. Just don't expect Fantomas or Bungle - though I'm sure everyone will.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It IS about 5,000 times more interesting than Faith No More, but that isn't really too hard; I do think they were one of the most overrated bands ever. About 10,000 times more interesting than the new Tool album, which is a conservative rating on my part. I find though, that most new rock music (not talking extreme metal here), that is, 'song-oriented' music, for the lack of a better term, falls pretty short these days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-matt</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=efrendv@yahoo.es href="mailto:efrendv@yahoo.es">efr?n del valle</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=efrendv@yahoo.es href="mailto:efrendv@yahoo.es">zorn-list@lists.xmission.com</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 11/5/01 10:07:39 AM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <P> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>> </DIV> <DIV>> Hello list,</DIV> <DIV>> </DIV> <DIV>> has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project</DIV> <DIV>> TOMAHAWK? What the album</DIV> <DIV>> like? What kind of music do they play?</DIV> <DIV>> </DIV> <DIV>> Thanks</DIV> <DIV>> </DIV> <DIV>> Neil H. Enet</DIV> <DIV>> ------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hi Neil and everyone,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I</DIV> <DIV>can just say it's been a major dissappointment.</DIV> <DIV>Although they presented the group as a superband,</DIV> <DIV>there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they</DIV> <DIV>play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in</DIV> <DIV>that release, it's not your record for sure. I would</DIV> <DIV>say they are a rock band with nothing particularly</DIV> <DIV>outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as</DIV> <DIV>usual. </DIV> <DIV>There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring</DIV> <DIV>the first song of the album, which is probably the</DIV> <DIV>worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a</DIV> <DIV>horrible song.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd love to be more positive, I swear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Efr?n</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>_______________________________________________________________</DIV> <DIV>Do You Yahoo!?</DIV> <DIV>Yahoo! Messenger</DIV> <DIV>Comunicaci?n instant?nea gratis con tu gente.</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://messenger.yahoo.es">http://messenger.yahoo.es</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P></P></FONT> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--- Matthew Mitchell</DIV> <DIV>--- <A href="mailto:matmi@earthlink.net">matmi@earthlink.net</A></DIV> <DIV>--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: Re: theremin cd w/caine, feldman... Date: 05 Nov 2001 16:44:55 +0100 (CET) HI, What label released this CD? Thanks, EfrΘn del Valle > > > Thanks everyone for the great recommendations! > > I just have one more query... the other day I saw > a cd with Uri Caine, Mark > > Feldman and a theremin player (can't remember the > name), and possibly some > > other musicians... I think it was called Theremin > Noir. Does anyone know > > what it is like? It looks interesting enough, and > is in some nice packaging, > > just wondering whether it's worth picking up? > > Rob Schwimmer is the name you were looking for. it > is a very > interesting recording. try to get it! > > PEACE > > Tim > mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net > ICQ: 96771783 > http://nav.to/timblech > -- > The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones > who are mad to live, > mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything > at the same time, > the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, > but burn, burn, > burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding > like spiders across > the stars and in the middle you see the blue > centerlight pop and > everybody goes "Awww!" > > Jack Kerouac > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" <jgthomas@nortelnetworks.com> Subject: RE: Sun Ra recs Date: 05 Nov 2001 10:35:02 -0600 I've always loved the compilation on Blast First, _Out There A Minute_. It's got all types of Ra's music on it. Not sure if it's still available though. John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <pequet@altern.org> Subject: re: Fwd: Re: theremin cd w/caine, feldman... Date: 05 Nov 2001 19:09:46 +0100 (CET) >What label released this CD? Theremin Noir November Music NVR2005-2 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Molony <mooch@btconnect.com> Subject: CDS FOR SALE Date: 05 Nov 2001 19:57:39 +0000 =A35 OR $9 EACH. PRICE INCLUDES SHIPPING TO US/UK/EUROPE. PLEASE REPLY OFFLIST. REGARDS KEVIN METROPOLITAN KLEZMER YIDDISH FOR TRAVELLERS JACQUES THOLLOT w.akchote/hymas et al TENGA NINA NATO KOCH SCHUTS STUDER 7 MUSICOS CUBANOS INTAKT HAMIET BLUIETT NALI KOLA SOUL NOTE TOM VARNER W.FELDMAN RAINEY ETC. SWIMMING OMNITONE HAMIET BLUIETT W.BYRON J.D PARRAN AND OTHERS THE CLARINET FAMILY SOUL NOTE HAMIET BLUIETT W.FRED HOPKINS ET AL IF YOU HAVE TO ASK.... TUTU UNITED CONGRESS OF THE ELEVENTH HOUR SHINE ON ENEMY OLIVER LAKE (DARA,BOWIE,SHAW,ETC.) HEAVY SPIRITS BLACK LION OLIVER LAKE(HICKS,WORKMAN,LAFF) AGAIN AND AGAIN GRAMMAVISION LEE HYLA (W,TIM BERNE LYDIAN STRG QTET. ) WE SPEAK ETRUSCAN NEW WORLD CORNELL ROCHESTER (W. URI CAINE /BLACK SNOW HARRIS) I SAID YOUR MOTHER'S ON HER PIPE MOERS KEVIN BRUCE HARRIS (W.URI CAINE/STEVE WILSON/RALPH PETERSON JNR.) FOLK SONGS FOLK TALES TIPTOE. BOB OSTERTAG GETTING A HEAD(METAL BOX STILL SEALED) SEELAND/ReR NED ROTHENBERG THE CRUX LEO RECORDS STEVE LACY /ROTHENBERG /NATHANSON/SLEICHIM ANTONYMS SUB ROSA OLIVER LAKE STRING PROJECT MOVEMENT TURNS & SWITHCHES PASSIN' THRU JULIUS HEMPHILL W. BLYTHE/BLUIETT /WADUD ETC. REFLECTIONS FREEDOM JEROME HARRIS(W,PREVITE,BYRON,EHRLICH,ANDERSON) HIDDEN IN PLAIN VIEW NEW WORLD RECORDS MARTY EHRLICH (W. PREVITE,STICKLAND,HORNER) THE TRAVELLERS TALE ENJA BLUE GENE TYRANNY GO BLUE O.O. DISCS FAR EAST SIDE BAND CAVERNS NEW WORLD RECORDS ESKELIN /PARKINS GREEN BERMUDAS EREMITE ESKELIN FIGURE OF SPEECH SOUL NOTE FRED HERSCH (w.laspina,hirshfield) ETC(NYC 1988) RR FRED HERSCH EVANESSENCE EVIDENCE HERSCH/MOORE/HEMMINGWAY THIRTEEN WAYS GM VARNER LONG NIGHT BIG DAY NEW WORLD JOINT VENTURE (ESKELIN,HAYNES,SMOKER,GRESS) OPEN LOOSE (ESKELIN,RAINEY,HELIAS) COME AHEAD BACK KOCH CHAPIN/IVERSON/ASLAN AVANTANGO EPSA - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: Haino & Zorn Date: 05 Nov 2001 15:33:54 -0500 >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> >Subject: Re: avant / ZORN + HAINO + OTOMO > >At 10:46 AM 11/5/01 +0000, Ricardo Jorge wrote: >>Is there any record featuring Zorn with Keiji Haino or Otomo Yoshihide? > >The Zorn discography at >http://www.wnur.org/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html lists a couple of >other even more obscure Otomo albums that feature Zorn, one of which also >features Keiji Haino (all three on one track even!). Check the discography >for complete info. >- -- A minor clarification on the subject of Haino & Zorn together on 3 officially released recordings: Haino appears with Zorn on 5 tracks totaling over 1/2 hour on the Pain Killer album "Rituals: Live in Japan". This album has a poor mix of the guitar. Haino also appears with Zorn on 1 track, "Marianne" of Makigami Koichi's album Koroshi no Blues (again with Zorn in Pain Killer). This is a supercool track, but the cd is oop. This single track "Marianne" was also included on Tzadik's complete studio recordings of Pain Killer. (For clarity's sake, Rituals is not here.) As near as I can tell, that is the grand extent of Zorn and Haino non-bootleg collaborations. There are compilations that have both Zorn and Haino on them, but not on the same tracks. Caleb has mentioned an Otomo Yoshihide album with Haino/Zorn/Otomo together appearing on Patrice's Zorn discography, but there is no Otomo album with Haino as far as I know. I could not find one on the discography. This probably more than clears things up. Let me know if it is I who am in error here. Thanks. David "Overkill" K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Haino & Zorn Date: 05 Nov 2001 12:59:29 -0800 On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:33:54 -0500 David Keffer wrote: > > Caleb has mentioned an Otomo Yoshihide album with Haino/Zorn/Otomo together > appearing on Patrice's Zorn discography, but there is no Otomo album with > Haino as far as I know. I could not find one on the discography. I could not find it either. Maybe Caleb was thinking of KOROSHI NO BLUES, on which the three musicians appear, but never all three together. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Marshall" <admars32@bigfoot.com> Subject: RE: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted Date: 05 Nov 2001 22:10:30 -0000 Sorry about the formatting, but I get the digest version! Actually I'll just copy and paste what I sent to the faith No More newsgroup :) It's OK, depends if you like Jesus Lizard or not really! I really liked Jesus Lizard but this album is a bit average :( I think a lot of ppl are upset it's not the almighty Patton doing the best thing since sliced bread, but as someone else in a different post (probably in alt.music.mr-bungle) it's actually Duane Denison's(Jesus Lizard's bassist) band, he got Patton to sing. It's kind of alternative dark country. I'm sure there's other bands out there doing similar things but the only thing that springs to my mind is "Hater" which was a side project of a couple of the Soundgarden guys. In short, the album is OK, but nothing too spectacular, no boundaries blown blah blah. Maybe it'll grow on me with time, but at the mo I'm a bit disappointed ( When I heard the band was gonna be Patton with guys from Helmet and JL, I could hardly wait, probably just set my expectations too high :) actually since I've listened to it more now, I can say it has grown on m e a lot, but it's nothing experimental really, but is a way above average, average rock album if that makes sense :) Al > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:00:03 -0400 > From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net> > Subject: Tomahawk opinions wanted > > Hello list, > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project TOMAHAWK? What the album > like? What kind of music do they play? > > Thanks > > Neil H. Enet > - ------------ > > NP. FAITH NO MORE: angel dust > > > - - > > > Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 23:03:31 +0100 > From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU> > Subject: TomaHawk > > Zorn agains, > > "countingmurders" in group "Mr. Bungle" on "www.audiogalaxy.com" sent me > all the TomaHawk tracks without me even knowing they were released. > Another good reason to join the "ZornListGalaxy" group. That way you can > ask to preview the tracks too. > > greetings, > Rob @ risk > np: Hasidic N Wave - ok dear, who ? > > Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:07:39 +0100 (CET) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> > Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted > > > > > Hello list, > > > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project > > TOMAHAWK? What the album > > like? What kind of music do they play? > > > > Thanks > > > > Neil H. Enet > > ------------ > > Hi Neil and everyone, > > I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I > can just say it's been a major dissappointment. > Although they presented the group as a superband, > there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they > play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in > that release, it's not your record for sure. I would > say they are a rock band with nothing particularly > outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as > usual. > There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring > the first song of the album, which is probably the > worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a > horrible song. > > I'd love to be more positive, I swear. > > Best, > > EfrΘn > > _______________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger > Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. > http://messenger.yahoo.es > > - - > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:34:19 -0500 > From: "Matthew Mitchell" <matmi@earthlink.net> > Subject: RE: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted > > - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > I quite like the album, actually. Its got the patented old-school > reverb so present on many Bungle and Bungle-related Cds, which may or may not be > good, depending on preferences. The production is detailed but dark, with > a general murkiness that serves the album well, I think. Its pretty > menacing, not always in an obvious way. It rocks pretty hard, too. Its a > grower, to be sure; I wasn't too into it the first time, but that's definitely > been changing. Just don't expect Fantomas or Bungle - though I'm sure > everyone will. > > > > It IS about 5,000 times more interesting than Faith No More, but that isn't > really too hard; I do think they were one of the most overrated bands > ever. About 10,000 times more interesting than the new Tool album, which > is a conservative rating on my part. I find though, that most new > rock music (not talking extreme metal here), that is, 'song-oriented' music, for > the lack of a better term, falls pretty short these days. > > > > - -matt > > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > From: efr?n del valle > > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > Sent: 11/5/01 10:07:39 AM > > Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions > wanted > > > > > > > > > > Hello list, > > > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project > > TOMAHAWK? What the album > > like? What kind of music do they play? > > > > Thanks > > > > Neil H. Enet > > ------------ > > > > Hi Neil and everyone, > > > > I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I > > can just say it's been a major dissappointment. > > Although they presented the group as a superband, > > there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they > > play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in > > that release, it's not your record for sure. I would > > say they are a rock band with nothing particularly > > outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as > > usual. > > There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring > > the first song of the album, which is probably the > > worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a > > horrible song. > > > > I'd love to be more positive, I swear. > > > > Best, > > > > Efr?n > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Haino & Zorn Date: 05 Nov 2001 18:00:53 -0500 At 12:59 PM 11/5/01 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:33:54 -0500 David Keffer wrote: >> >> Caleb has mentioned an Otomo Yoshihide album with Haino/Zorn/Otomo together >> appearing on Patrice's Zorn discography, but there is no Otomo album with >> Haino as far as I know. I could not find one on the discography. > >I could not find it either. Maybe Caleb was thinking of KOROSHI NO BLUES, >on which the three musicians appear, but never all three together. Indeed I was, and as I check the discography again, I see that I misread it -- Haino is on a track with Otomo and a separate track with Zorn. The perils of doing research before a sufficient amount of morning caffeine. My apologies. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Eliane Radigue in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November Date: 05 Nov 2001 22:18:34 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>, you'll hear music inspired by the 11th century Tibetan Buddhist Milarepa composed by Eliane Radigue. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0500 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music of the World Soundscape Project by Sabine Breitsameter, Darren Copeland, Claude Schryer, Barry Truax, Hans Ulrich Werner, and Hildegard Westerkamp) is still available in the Mappings archive <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: the legendary hassan Date: 06 Nov 2001 22:32:19 -0800 Just found the Atlantic Max Roach album featuring this guy, Hassan Ibn Ali. I know he played with the Three Strings (and was replaced by Ahmad Jamal). Does anyone else know anything at all about him? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Trembling before g-d Date: 06 Nov 2001 08:47:09 +0100 I have to send a review, and I'd need a more precise recording date than 2000.... is there anybody who has more information or an educated guess? Thanks a lot Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" <patbor@buzzle.com> Subject: About Douglas live Date: 06 Nov 2001 03:00:45 -0500 Hello, 1) saw that Dave Douglas will be playing in Torino, Italy March 2 with Mengelberg Jones, Bennik. saw that there are no studio recordings with this group, only Douglas-Bennik and Douglas-Mengelberg. Anyone has further info about these 4 musicians together? 2) Douglas will be also touring with Trisha Brown. The ensemble's line up seems a lot like charms of the night sky, is the dance performance based on that kind of sound? Thanks Patb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: About Douglas live Date: 06 Nov 2001 03:17:42 -0500 1. There is a studio recording of Douglas, Mengelberg, Jones and Bennink - its release has just been delayed time and time again because of the crappy state of the retail market in the States (which affects the Canadian label in question, Songlines, insofar as it affects the majority of the potential sales and the financial well-being of the distributor). What you should expect to hear is something that starts with Thelonious Monk and goes somewhere else, though with the deepest respect and greatest affection. And when Dave and Han dig in together, it's magic. Last I heard, the Songlines disc was/is now due in January. 2. Charms of the Night Sky performs the music heard in "Five Part Weather Invention," the first part of "El Trilogy," Trisha Brown's recent collaboration with Dave. The second part was scored for a quartet of Dave, Greg Tardy, Greg Cohen and Susie Ibarra, and the third part combined both groups. There's a CD of the entire piece available on RCA Victor, though at present it may still only be available through Downtown Music Gallery (www.DTMGallery.com). I don't know which part will be performed in your area, but maybe this will be enough to let you know what to expect... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Brian Ferneyhough, Sonatas for String Quartet, Arditti Quartet (Montaigne) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of patbor Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:01 AM Hello, 1) saw that Dave Douglas will be playing in Torino, Italy March 2 with Mengelberg Jones, Bennik. saw that there are no studio recordings with this group, only Douglas-Bennik and Douglas-Mengelberg. Anyone has further info about these 4 musicians together? 2) Douglas will be also touring with Trisha Brown. The ensemble's line up seems a lot like charms of the night sky, is the dance performance based on that kind of sound? Thanks Patb - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" <arock01@postoffice.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted Date: 06 Nov 2001 19:58:28 +1100 I concur with everyone who found Tomahawk's self-titled debut album disappointing at first listen. Originally I found it to be an extremely insipid soundscape and recall wondering if perhaps Mike's rigorous schedu= le of full-time bands and solo projects was starting to equate to a bad case= of quantity over quality. However, after subjecting myself to repeated liste= ns I had something of an epiphany. The recording transformed itself overnigh= t from the aural equivalent of sawdust to an absolute culinary delight. It began to take on a curious logic all it's own and a rich and varied music= al tapestry emerged from what had previously appeared to be a lukewarm pile = of faeces, IMHO. There are now songs on this album that I literally love. My advice to anyone who has picked up Tomahawk is "persevere!" Kind regards, Adam ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:10 AM > Sorry about the formatting, but I get the digest version! > > Actually I'll just copy and paste what I sent to the faith No More newsgroup > :) > > It's OK, depends if you like Jesus Lizard or not really! > > I really liked Jesus Lizard but this album is a bit average :( I think = a lot > of ppl are upset it's not the almighty Patton doing the best thing sinc= e > sliced bread, but as someone else in a different post (probably in > alt.music.mr-bungle) it's actually Duane Denison's(Jesus Lizard's bassi= st) > band, he got Patton to sing. > > It's kind of alternative dark country. I'm sure there's other bands out > there doing similar things but the only thing that springs to my mind i= s > "Hater" which was a side project of a couple of the Soundgarden guys. > > In short, the album is OK, but nothing too spectacular, no boundaries blown > blah blah. > > Maybe it'll grow on me with time, but at the mo I'm a bit disappointed > ( When I heard the band was gonna be Patton with guys from Helmet and J= L, I > could hardly wait, probably just set my expectations too high :) > > > actually since I've listened to it more now, I can say it has grown on = m e a > lot, but it's nothing experimental really, but is a way above average, > average rock album if that makes sense :) > > Al > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:00:03 -0400 > > From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net> > > Subject: Tomahawk opinions wanted > > > > Hello list, > > > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project TOMAHAWK? What the albu= m > > like? What kind of music do they play? > > > > Thanks > > > > Neil H. Enet > > - ------------ > > > > NP. FAITH NO MORE: angel dust > > > > > > - - > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 23:03:31 +0100 > > From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU> > > Subject: TomaHawk > > > > Zorn agains, > > > > "countingmurders" in group "Mr. Bungle" on "www.audiogalaxy.com" sent= me > > all the TomaHawk tracks without me even knowing they were released. > > Another good reason to join the "ZornListGalaxy" group. That way you = can > > ask to preview the tracks too. > > > > greetings, > > Rob @ risk > > np: Hasidic N Wave - ok dear, who ? > > > > Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:07:39 +0100 (CET) > > From: =3D?iso-8859-1?q?efr=3DE9n=3D20del=3D20valle?=3D <efrendv@yahoo= .es> > > Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted > > > > > > > > Hello list, > > > > > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project > > > TOMAHAWK? What the album > > > like? What kind of music do they play? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Neil H. Enet > > > ------------ > > > > Hi Neil and everyone, > > > > I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I > > can just say it's been a major dissappointment. > > Although they presented the group as a superband, > > there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they > > play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in > > that release, it's not your record for sure. I would > > say they are a rock band with nothing particularly > > outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as > > usual. > > There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring > > the first song of the album, which is probably the > > worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a > > horrible song. > > > > I'd love to be more positive, I swear. > > > > Best, > > > > Efr=E9n > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Messenger > > Comunicaci=F3n instant=E1nea gratis con tu gente. > > http://messenger.yahoo.es > > > > - - > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:34:19 -0500 > > From: "Matthew Mitchell" <matmi@earthlink.net> > > Subject: RE: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions wanted > > > > - ------=3D_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 > > Content-type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII > > > > > > I quite like the album, actually. Its got the patented old-school > > reverb so present on many Bungle and Bungle-related Cds, which may or may > not be > > good, depending on preferences. The production is detailed but dark, with > > a general murkiness that serves the album well, I think. Its pretty > > menacing, not always in an obvious way. It rocks pretty hard, too. I= ts a > > grower, to be sure; I wasn't too into it the first time, but that's > definitely > > been changing. Just don't expect Fantomas or Bungle - though I'm sur= e > > everyone will. > > > > > > > > It IS about 5,000 times more interesting than Faith No More, but that > isn't > > really too hard; I do think they were one of the most overrated bands > > ever. About 10,000 times more interesting than the new Tool album, which > > is a conservative rating on my part. I find though, that most new > > rock music (not talking extreme metal here), that is, 'song-oriented' > music, for > > the lack of a better term, falls pretty short these days. > > > > > > > > - -matt > > > > > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: efr?n del valle > > > > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > > > Sent: 11/5/01 10:07:39 AM > > > > Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk opinions > > wanted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello list, > > > > > > > > has anyone heard Mike Patton's latest project > > > > TOMAHAWK? What the album > > > > like? What kind of music do they play? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Neil H. Enet > > > > ------------ > > > > > > > > Hi Neil and everyone, > > > > > > > > I've listened to the Tomahawk a couple of times and I > > > > can just say it's been a major dissappointment. > > > > Although they presented the group as a superband, > > > > there's actally nothing out of this earth in what they > > > > play. If you're looking for the surprise factor in > > > > that release, it's not your record for sure. I would > > > > say they are a rock band with nothing particularly > > > > outstanding. Well, yes there is: Patton's vocals, as > > > > usual. > > > > There's an mp3 archive in the ipecac website featuring > > > > the first song of the album, which is probably the > > > > worst of all. Not only that, but I'd say it's a > > > > horrible song. > > > > > > > > I'd love to be more positive, I swear. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Efr?n > > > > > > > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Lizard Bassist (was RE: Tomahawk opinions wanted) Date: 06 Nov 2001 07:11:58 -0500 * "Alan Marshall" <admars32@bigfoot.com> >I really liked Jesus Lizard but this album is a bit average :( ... >it's actually Duane Denison's(Jesus Lizard's bassist) band, >he got Patton to sing. Never woulda thunk anyone would mistake Denison for the mighty Wm. Sims, but ... (Denison = guitar, Sims = bass ;-). -P - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwoodwor <mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca> Subject: Ra. rec. and question Date: 06 Nov 2001 09:41:38 -0400 Hi - I can't remember if anyone has mentioned the Sun Ra album yet - 'Outer Spaceways Incorporated' on the Freedom label (I think). I'll also second the rec. for the 'make a joyful noise' movie- very entertaining. Does anyone know if there is a soundtrack per se for this video. There is one song that is on it (played right at the end if I remember correctly) where the whole band dances around the audience and does this chant/hopping procession thing (kinda like - daaaaa, da da, da, da, da da, dah dah)that sounds really good and has often got stuck in my head, but I don't know the name of the tune, or if it is available on any official recording. Also, everyone - go buy Gregg Bendian's Interzone - REquim for Jack Kirby - loaded with amazing music. mike. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: About Douglas live Date: 06 Nov 2001 12:51:01 -0500 (EST) Pat: The four recorded a (long-delayed) CD for Songlines last year, but no sign of it yet. They also played together as a band in New York and other places. Douglas, Bennink and Mengelberg have also played together as a trio. I saw them at the Guelph Jazz Festival a couple of years ago and was disappointed. Douglas and Mengelberg together were fine, but Bennink seemed to be (noisily) playing off in a corner by himself and often drowned out the other two. Ken Waxman --- patbor <patbor@buzzle.com> wrote: > Hello, > > 1) saw that Dave Douglas will be playing > in Torino, Italy March 2 with Mengelberg > Jones, Bennik. saw that there are no > studio recordings with this group, only > Douglas-Bennik and Douglas-Mengelberg. > Anyone has further info about these 4 > musicians together? > > 2) Douglas will be also touring with > Trisha Brown. The ensemble's line up > seems a lot like charms of the night > sky, is the dance performance based > on that kind of sound? > > Thanks > Patb > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website for free and in minutes at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: About Douglas live Date: 06 Nov 2001 18:51:02 +0100 (CET) > > Hello, > > 1) saw that Dave Douglas will be playing > in Torino, Italy March 2 with Mengelberg > Jones, Bennik. saw that there are no > studio recordings with this group, only > Douglas-Bennik and Douglas-Mengelberg. > Anyone has further info about these 4 > musicians together? Hi, If my memory serves, Brad Jones was also featured as a part of the Misha Mengelberg Trio in Avant's "Who's Bridge", along with Joey Baron. Best, EfrΘn _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: the legendary hassan Date: 06 Nov 2001 13:09:05 -0500 (EST) Skip: Do a Web search. Seems to be there's biographical info on him in a site called Jazz in Philadelphia or soem such. Ken Waxman --- Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> wrote: > Just found the Atlantic Max Roach album featuring > this guy, Hassan Ibn Ali. > I know he played with the Three Strings (and was > replaced by Ahmad Jamal). > Does anyone else know anything at all about him? > > skip heller > http://www.skipheller.com > > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website for free and in minutes at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "darby crash" <ctasucks@hotmail.com> Subject: John Zorn Live????? Date: 06 Nov 2001 10:10:23 -0800 Does anybody know where and when and if John Zorn will be playing out on tour or in NY? Does anybody have a link to any web pages that might list JZ shows? Its been a while since I've seen him play. Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" <nirav@ink19.com> Subject: Re: John Zorn Live????? Date: 06 Nov 2001 13:24:01 -0500 > > Does anybody know where and when and if John Zorn will be playing out on > tour or in NY? The Tonic website (http://www.tonic107.com) sez he'll be playing on Nov. 13th. Myself, I'm trying to decide whether or not to check out White Out with Diamond Jim O'Rourke on the 8th. Anyone have anything to say about White Out? I know zero about the band. Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 OnNow- Oval- Ovalprocess "One can not be at the same time all eye and all ear. "- Robert Bresson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" <patbor@buzzle.com> Subject: Speed Date: 06 Nov 2001 13:34:18 -0500 Hello, Chris Speed as a composer: I know his last recording is EMIT, Songlines. I have requested it but still waiting. - What is his music like? - Is Songlines the only label he has recorded for (as a composer)? Thank you, PatB - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: Speed Date: 06 Nov 2001 13:47:41 -0500 1. Chris Speed's music takes in equal measures of Downtown pedigree (Berne, Douglas) and eastern European folk tradition. He's also handy with a catchy tune. Each of his three Songlines discs has been better than the one before it. Cuong Vu does some terrific playing on all three. Tom Benton could give you an even better desciption than that, but we have't heard from him in a long time now... 2. Chris recorded one disc, 'Iffy,' for the Knitting Factory label. He stuck to clarinet for the disc, backed by Jamie Saft and Ben Perowsky. Reviews were mixed, and the sound is more raw and in-your-face than most jazz recordings, on purpose. Speaking of the Knit, their label seems to be well and truly up and running again - I've gotten four or five recent releases, the best of which is Cuong Vu's new 'Come Play With Me,' which reunites him with Stomu Takeishi and John Hollenbeck. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of patbor Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:34 PM Hello, Chris Speed as a composer: I know his last recording is EMIT, Songlines. I have requested it but still waiting. - What is his music like? - Is Songlines the only label he has recorded for (as a composer)? Thank you, PatB - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <ecstasymule@hotmail.com> Subject: Fwd: Date: 06 Nov 2001 18:55:36 +0000 >From: kurt gottschalk <kurtg@jumparts.org> >Reply-To: kurtg@jumparts.org >To: ecstasymule@hotmail.com >Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:54:23 -0800 (PST) > >JumpArts and Neues Kabarett present >The Better Bridges Festival >at The Brecht Forum >122 W. 27th St. 10th floor >NYC > >Friday November 9th > >7:30pm Causes and Consequences >Open discussion facilitated by Mary Boger and Biju Mathew >Mary Boger is an international solidarity activist in the Middle East, the >Caribbean, Latin America and East Timor and is writing a dissertation on >the realities of living in a Palestinian Ghetto in Israel after living >there for four years. >Biju Mathew is an activist working with the Forum of Indian Leftists, New >York Taxi Workers Alliance and the Youth Solidarity Summer. > >9pm Movement & words >Dancers Makiko, Ashley Searles, Jennifer Kjos, Marija Krtolica >poet Eliot Katz >with Sabir Mateen, David Brandt music > >10pm Untempered Ensemble, minus 1 >Bill Cole, Warren Smith, Joe Daley, William Parker, Cooper-Moore, Sam >Furnace > >11pm Quantum Group >Charles Waters, Matt LaVelle, Suzanne Chen > >Saturday November 10th > >7:30pm Groups Taking Action >Organizing for a more peaceful and tolerant world >Invited organizations include: Arab American Family Support Center, Jews >for Racial & Economic Justice, Taxi Workers Alliance, New York: Not in Our >Name Coalition, Brooklyn Poster Brigade, DRUMM, and others. >Q & A to follow. > >9pm Dave Brandt's Gaia Consort >Shoko Nagai, Stuart Bogie, Matt LaVelle, Terrence Murren >with Luciana Achugar, Levi Gonzalez dance > >10pm Billy Bang & Frank Lowe Duo > >11pm Jordan McLean's Fire of Space >Steve Swell, Stuart Bogie, Shoko Nagai, Geoff Mann, Michael Herbst > >Sunday November 11th > >7:30pm Dr. Mansour Farhang >Terrorism and Anti-Americanism >Dr. Farhang is a former United Nations ambassador from Iran and is >currently a professor of Diplomatic History/International Relations at >Bennington College in Vermont and an advisory board member of >Middle East Watch, a branch of Human Rights Watch. Q & A to follow. > >9pm Okkyung Lee's Miro Trio >Ori Kaplan, Tom Abbs > >10pm The Andrew Lamb Trio >Will Halsey, Ardrei Strobert, Hill Greene > >11pm Andrew Bemkey & Andrew Barker Duo > >All performances and lectures taking place >@ The Brecht Forum >122 West 27th Street 10th Floor, Manhattan >1/9 to 28th, C/E to 23rd, F to 23rd, 6 to 28th, N/R to 28th > >$8 -12 >per night >Sliding scale > > > > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get a free "Jump Mail" account. >Free e-mail for artists & art lovers! >Log on to http://JumpArts.org _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Speed Date: 07 Nov 2001 00:05:13 +0100 > Hello, > > Chris Speed as a composer: > > - What is his music like? > Speed dives deeply into eastern european stuff akin to klezmer: bulgarian, turkish etc. His jazz influences intermingles with the worldmusic stuff, and he seems to love long and slow phrases, when he approaches a selfpenned jazz melody. His EMIT contains some great examples, next to his earlier solo album 'Deviantics', for he touches upon different styles he explores with his close colleagues. One of Speed's great goals is to create really different atmospheres with the help of a relatively small circle of musicians around him. They are: Brad Shepik, Jim Black, Skuli Sverrisson, Cuong Vu, most of them originally out of Seattle, like Speed. So it is very interesting to check out titles outside of Speed's own relatively small solo catalogue: his ambitions in music go far beyond 'solo projects'. I haven't heard the group Human Feel myself, but Speed talks affectionately about this band, his first group. Human Feel made two cds on Songlines. The bands Pachora and Jim Black AlasNoAxis tell a lot about Speeds musical thinking. To dive deeper into the scene Speed is coming from, it is also rewarding to check out Brad Shepik's The Well, and The Loan, as well as Skuli Sverrissons album Seremonie (on Extreme records). NB: Speed does not play on those last three, but it is the whole scene that is the point here. > - Is Songlines the only label he has > recorded for (as a composer)? > I know Pachora is on the Knitting Factory label, he collaborates a lot with Brad Shepik in that group, but also brings in 'All Speed'-titles. I think they have 3 cds out on KF. Their title 'AST' sounds great in my ears. Hope this helps Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu> Subject: Re: John Zorn Live????? Date: 06 Nov 2001 17:59:01 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:24 PM > Myself, I'm trying to decide whether or not to check out White Out with > Diamond Jim O'Rourke on the 8th. Anyone have anything to say about White > Out? I know zero about the band. It's Lin Culbertson on keyboards and some other stuff (autoharp? flute?) and Tom Surgal on drums. He's played with Thurston Moore, Arthur Doyle and sundry other NYC free jazz types. I saw White Out at least once, maybe more. I distincly remember seeing them with Kevin Drumm a year or two ago. Pretty nice, definite free-jazz bias in contrast to Mr. Drumm's stuff. I.E. Surgal's drumming is pretty neatly post Sunny Murray, Rashied Ali, etc. I've heard bits of the White Out/O'Rourke CD on Ecstatic Peace. Very busy and almost psych-rocky at times. Lots of goofy digital noises and beeps and so forth. O'Rourke plays computer and guitar both. For what it's worth. . . -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: Speed Date: 06 Nov 2001 19:12:59 -0500 Very nice evaluation of Speed's work, Remco. Human Feel only made one disc for Songlines, as well as one for New World, one for GM, and one self-released on the "Human Use" label (that's in reverse chronological order, BTW). You can find more information on all of them in Speed's discography at www.screwgunrecords.com, assuming that those pages have been left up since I handed the page off. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Remco Takken >I haven't heard the group Human Feel myself, but Speed talks affectionately about this band, his first group. Human Feel made two cds on Songlines. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" <patbor@buzzle.com> Subject: Thanks... Date: 07 Nov 2001 03:36:01 -0500 Thanks Steve Smith and Remco Takken for your precious informations about Douglas and Speed. Patb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry <Moudry@uab.edu> Subject: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 07 Nov 2001 11:47:23 -0600 Just a quick, but massive, THANK YOU to Cuneiform Records for the new Chris McGregor/Brotherhood of Breath CD, Travelling somewhere. Although it will take a few weeks, the entire concert will go on my Creative Improv programme. If you haven't heard it, you're missing some very vital music. Saturnally, -- Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, UAB Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz); <http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry> Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --de la Vega - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "francesco martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 07 Nov 2001 19:13:45 +0100 Listening to it when your message arrived and shivering to the music. This is as good as it gets. A little annoyance are the liner notes, with shallow observations "there never was a trumpeter like Mongezi" and the attribution of Kongi's Theme to Wole Soyinka! Someone who's allegedly been researching these topics should know better... but the music is top Brotherhood! Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jmcazurin <mikah@toast.net> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 07 Nov 2001 13:20:52 -0500 Hello - Your comments got me all interested. I've never heard of this group though. Can you tell me what they're like? Would I be able to obtain this record in NYC? Thanks very much, mikah At 01:13 PM 11/7/2001, you wrote: >Listening to it when your message arrived and shivering to the music. This >is as good as it gets. A little annoyance are the liner notes, with shallow >observations "there never was a trumpeter like Mongezi" and the attribution >of Kongi's Theme to Wole Soyinka! Someone who's allegedly been researching >these topics should know better... but the music is top Brotherhood! I am dancing at the feet of my lord, knowing the eternal secret is this: in all worlds and lives and times, all is bliss, all is bliss, all is bliss. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 07 Nov 2001 17:16:47 -0500 --Boundary_(ID_gFnzLLdOoyYvLWxBBj8/ug) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Hello - > > Your comments got me all interested. I've never heard of this >group though. Can you tell me what they're like? Would I be able to >obtain this record in NYC? It should be pretty widely available besides the usual spots(DMG, Other Music), you could always order it direct from Wayside. Their online store seems to be up and running now. (www.wayside music.com) and there is info on the band at ; http://www.cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/brotherhood.html. It's a fantastic disc, and if enough of us buy it maybe Steve will think about doing more in this vein. There is a great recording of the BoB offshoot group Isipingo at the same club that would make a wonderful follow-up(hint,hint) RW --Boundary_(ID_gFnzLLdOoyYvLWxBBj8/ug) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: New Brotherhood of Breath</title></head><body> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Hello -<br> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite> Your comments got me all interested. I've never heard of this group though. Can you tell me what they're like? Would I be able to obtain this record in NYC?</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="-4" color="#000000"><x-tab> </x-tab>It should be pretty widely available besides the usual spots(DMG, Other Music), you could always order it direct from Wayside. Their online store seems to be up and running now. (www.wayside music.com) and there is info on the band at ; http://www.cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/brotherhood.html.</font></div > <div><font face="Arial" size="-4" color="#000000"><x-tab> </x-tab>It's a fantastic disc, and if enough of us buy it maybe Steve will think about doing more in this vein. There is a great recording of the BoB offshoot group Isipingo at the same club that would make a wonderful follow-up(hint,hint)</font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="-4" color="#000000"><br></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="-4" color="#000000">RW</font></div> </body> </html> --Boundary_(ID_gFnzLLdOoyYvLWxBBj8/ug)-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tal Goldman" <telly_o@softhome.net> Subject: Gigs in Paris this week? Date: 08 Nov 2001 01:17:19 +0200 Hello, Can anyone recommend any a-g jazz gigs in Paris in the next wk? Also, is "Instant Chavrires" easily accessible from the city center? Thanks very much in advance. - Tal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Gigs in Paris this week? Date: 07 Nov 2001 18:32:21 -0500 At 01:17 AM 11/8/01 +0200, Tal Goldman wrote: > >Also, is "Instant Chavrires" easily accessible from the city center? As a non-native who was just visiting Paris for a couple of nights, I can definitely say yes. It's easy walking distance from the Robespierre metro station. It's kind of down a narrow side street, but as long as you have the address when you go and can read a map (there was a neighborhood map at the metro station), you should be fine. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@altavista.com> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 07 Nov 2001 16:32:38 -0800 > Just a quick, but massive, THANK YOU to Cuneiform Records for the new > Chris McGregor/Brotherhood of Breath CD, Travelling somewhere. > Although it will take a few weeks, the entire concert will go on my > Creative Improv programme. > > If you haven't heard it, you're missing some very vital music. > > Saturnally, > - -- > Joe Moudry Oddly enough, I just got my copy in the mail today, and have it on REALLY loud as I read my email. Yes, what a fantastic album!!!! I only have a couple of other BoB albums -- Procession (Ogun vinyl) and Country Cooking (CD, can't remember the label). What else is available right now that I should jump on? And is Maxine McGregor's book still available anywhere? Dan Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 07 Nov 2001 16:51:40 -0800 Dan, On 7 Nov 2001 16:32:38 -0800 Dan Given wrote: > > Oddly enough, I just got my copy in the mail today, and have it on REALLY loud > as I read my email. Yes, what a fantastic album!!!! I only have a couple of > other BoB albums -- Procession (Ogun vinyl) and Country Cooking (CD, can't > remember the label). What else is available right now that I should jump on? > And is Maxine McGregor's book still available anywhere? I strongly recommend the first one: *** - CHRIS McGREGOR'S BROTHERHOOD OF BREATH 1/ MRA (Pukwana) 4:58 2/ Davashe's Dream (Davashe) 7:25 3/ The Bride (Pukwana) 7:35 4/ Andromeda (McGregor) 4:05 5/ Night Poem (McGregor) 20:37 6/ Union Special (McGregor) 1:42 Chris McGregor: leader, piano, African xylophone; Malcolm Griffiths: trom- bone; Nick Evans: trombone; Mongezi Feza: pocket trumpet, Indian flute; Mark Charig: cornet; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Dudu Pukwana: alto; Ronnie Beer: tenor; Indian flute; Alan Skidmore: tenor, soprano; Harry Miller: bass; Louis Moholo: drums; Mike Osborne: alto, clarinet; John Surman: baritone saxophone, soprano. 1971 - Neon Records, Mono NE2 (LP) 1971 - Neon Records, Stereo NE2 (LP) 1994 - Repertoire Records, REP 4468-WP (CD) as well as: *** - LIVE AT WILLISAU: Chris McGregor's Brotherhood Of Breath 1/ Do It (McGregor) 9:54 2/ Restless (McGregor) 2:38 3/ Kongis' Theme (McGregor) 6:45 4/ Tungis' Song (Tungi Oyelana) 6:45 5/ Ismite Is Might (McGregor) 4:30 6/ The Serpents Kindly Eye (McGregor) 8:30 Recorded live at Hotel Moren, Willisau (Switzerland) on January 23, 1973 Chris McGregor: leader, piano; Harry Miller: bass; Louis Moholo: drums; Dudu Pukwana: alto; Evan Parker: tenor; Gary Windo: tenor; Mongezi Feza: trumpet; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Marc Charig: trumpet; Nick Evans: trombone; Radu Malfatti: trombone. 1974 - Ogun (UK), OG 100 (LP) 1994 - Ogun (UK), OGCD 001 (CD) Note: the CD adds five extra tracks and the titles are listed as following: 1/ Do It (McGregor) 11:08 2/ Restless (McGregor) 2:40 3/ Camel Dance (McGregor) 7:13 4/ Davashe's Dream (Davashe) 7:44 5/ Kongi's Theme (McGregor) 6:40 6/ Tunji's Song (Tungi Oyelana) 6:51 7/ Ismite Is Might (McGregor) 4:28 8/ The Serpent's Kindly Eye (McGregor) 8:25 9/ Andromeda (McGregor) 3:58 10/ Union Special (McGregor) 0:57 11/ Funky Boots (Windo, Evans) 5:41 In the last issue of DOWN BEAT, John Corbett says a lot of good things about the second Brotherhood of Breath called Brotherhood, and issued in 1972 on RCA. Unfortunately, it has never been reissued. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 01:14:30 EST I'll just add to the chorus: this is a great live album. One of the best things i've heard all year. 'Nuff said. There's just something about South African jazz (whether or not it be in exile) that just gets me; it has a wonderful spirit similar to 60s/70s Jamaican reggae and (once again) Fela Kuti in the sense that its such upbeat, free music made in complete contrast to the cold, oppressive environment in which it was made. One need only look to the lineups of the Jazz Epistles (a sextet including Hugh Masekela, Dollar Brand a.k.a. Abdullah Ibrahim, Jonas Gwangwa, and Kippie Moeketsi; which sadly only recorded 1 album) and the Blue Notes (including Chris McGregor, Dudu Pukwana, Mongezi Feza, Johnny Dyani, & Louis Moholo) to appreciate how many great jazz musicians have come from S.A. It is sad that so few recordings remain from these two legendary bands. And, as has been already mentioned, the Brotherhood of Breath (McGregor's post-Blue Notes band) has only a few albums to its credit, so this new live album is a real treasure. To hear a wonderful sampling of S.A. jazz, I recommend the relatively inexpensive compilation 'Freedom Blues: South African Jazz Under Apartheid' put out by Music Club a couple years ago. Included are performances by the Blue Notes, Jazz Epistles, Winston Ngozi, Kippie Moeketsi, and Chris McGregor's Castle Lager Big Band. There's just one stinker on the album, but the rest is all pretty good stuff. The only other drawback is the lack of notation about dates & albums. I'd love to know where to pick up more of this stuff. I'm longing for a boxset of early S.A. jazz. jeff caltabiano n.p. "b my dear" the blue notes, from 'freedom blues' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: Gigs in Paris this week? Date: 08 Nov 2001 07:37:52 +0100 Very easy, the metro line to Montreuil, Robespierre station, then a short walk. Show at 8:30, Metro runs until 12. Buy Pariscope (2 francs) and you'll have all the gigs listed there; the traditional jazz clubs like Duc de Lombards or New Morning sometimes have excellent music. Francesco ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 12:17 AM > Hello, > > Can anyone recommend any a-g jazz gigs in Paris in the next wk? > Also, is "Instant Chavrires" easily accessible from the city center? > > Thanks very much in advance. > > - Tal > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 07:45:12 +0100 > In the last issue of DOWN BEAT, John Corbett says a lot of good things about > the second Brotherhood of Breath called Brotherhood, and issued in 1972 on > RCA. Unfortunately, it has never been reissued. Ditto for Very Urgent, the Blue Notes record on English Polydor (who announced another BoB record and never published it). Do not forget the tribute band, Dedication, with two excellent albums on Ogun. They played Verona this summer and was a fantastic concert. Still a strong influence of SA musicians is heard in current groups by Moholo/Parker (Foxes' Fox), Roberto Bellatalla, Claude Deppa, Francine Luce and Ntshucks Bonga. Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Ra. rec. and question Date: 08 Nov 2001 09:27:47 +0100 >From: mwoodwor <mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca> > >There is one song that is on it (played >right at the end if I remember correctly) where the whole band dances >around the audience and does this chant/hopping procession thing (kinda >like - >daaaaa, da da, da, da, da da, dah dah)that sounds really good and has >often got stuck in my head, but I don't know the name of the tune, or >if it is available on any official recording. singing by email is a little bit difficult but you got it! I think it┤s We Travel The Spaceways and it┤s on alot of Sun Ra recordings: Spaceways (1966) Black Myth (1970) Live At Montreux (1976) A Night In East Berlin (1986) Live At The Hackney Empire (1990) Destination Unknown (1992) and on the fantastic tribute by Ken Vandermark┤s Spaceways Incorporated (2000) Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 09:20:51 +0100 > Jazz Epistles (a > sextet including Hugh Masekela, Dollar Brand a.k.a. Abdullah Ibrahim, Jonas > Gwangwa, and Kippie Moeketsi; which sadly only recorded 1 album) Which was reissued on Cd by Camden in 1998 (14 tracks, original had 8) > And, as has been already mentioned, the Brotherhood of Breath (McGregor's > post-Blue Notes band) has only a few albums to its credit, so this new live > album is a real treasure. > Gallo (SA) reissued on Cd the live recordings by McGregor at the Cold castle Jazz Festival, with Blue Notes, 1962, and the Big band album from 1963. From 1964 there's a live recording on Ogun, called The Blue Notes Heritage. > The only other drawback is the lack of > notation about dates & albums. They are a discographical nightmare due to the fact that in the 70's Ibrahim travelled undercover to SA in order to record, and the issued recording were dated back to when he was still living there. > I'd love to know where to pick up more of > this stuff. I'm longing for a boxset of early S.A. jazz. There's a whole series out of SA Jazz Cd out on Kaz (they used to be double Lps). Jazz in Africa vol. 2, African Sun, Africa Horns, and Blues for a Hip King, all on Kaz. There's a nice recording on Ogun of Moholo's band tour back in SA; some of the vinyls can be found floating at Ray's Jazz Shop or Mole, but I'd rather buy new Oguns to support Hazel. Not to be missed, among them on Ogun, is the fantastic 3 cd retrospective of Harry Miller with the reissue of all his records as a leader. Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: About Douglas live Date: 08 Nov 2001 09:56:02 +0100 >From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> > >Douglas, Bennink and Mengelberg have also played >together as a trio. I saw them at the Guelph Jazz >Festival a couple of years ago and was disappointed. >Douglas and Mengelberg together were fine, but Bennink >seemed to be (noisily) playing off in a corner by >himself and often drowned out the other two. I saw the quartet this summer at the Saalfelden festival in Austria and they were amazing, mostly led by Mengelberg in his Nichols-Monk vein. Douglas and Mengelberg are surely a dreamteam. Perhaps Jones "anchored" the quartet and Bennink showed his great bebop-abilities. Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 09:29:39 -0800 On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 07:45:12 +0100 "Francesco Martinelli" wrote: > > > In the last issue of DOWN BEAT, John Corbett says a lot of good things > about > > the second Brotherhood of Breath called Brotherhood, and issued in 1972 on > > RCA. Unfortunately, it has never been reissued. > > Ditto for Very Urgent, the Blue Notes record on English Polydor (who > announced another BoB record and never published it). > Do not forget the tribute band, Dedication, with two excellent albums on > Ogun. They played Verona this summer and was a fantastic concert. Still a > strong influence of SA musicians is heard in current groups by Moholo/Parker > (Foxes' Fox), Roberto Bellatalla, Claude Deppa, Francine Luce and Ntshucks > Bonga. And maybe the strangest of all (because it came out in 1994 on an American label specialized in audio; I don't remember having seen it ever distributed): *** - IN MEMORIAM: Chris McGregor's Brotherhood of Breath 1/ Dakar 2/ Sangena 3/ Andromeda 4/ Big G 5/ Lafente 6/ Bakwetha 7/ Coutry Cooking 8/ Mra Recorded in England in 1992 or 1993 Pinise Saul: vocals; Paul Taylor: trombone; Annie Whitehead: trombone; Dave Defries: trumpet; Harry Becket: trumpet; Peter Volpe: trumpet; Thomas Dyani: percussion; Daryl Leeque: percussion; Frank Williams: tenor; Ray Carles: alto; Julian Arguelles: baritone saxophone, soprano; Steve Williamson: alto, tenor, bassoon; Roland Perrin: piano; George Wolfaardt: bass; Gilbert Matthews: drums. 1994 - Friends Of Vital Music (USA), VF002 (CD) Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Zande <bz0c@andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 12:42:54 -0500 I believe the Memorial Concert was released on ITM in Germany. I got mine from Cadence in a special sale. It is OK, not essential. BZ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 10:02:00 -0800 On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:42:54 -0500 Brian Zande wrote: > > I believe the Memorial Concert was released on ITM in Germany. I got mine > from Cadence in a special sale. It is OK, not essential. Are you sure that it is the same that I listed? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "francesco martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: New Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 19:24:53 +0100 > And maybe the strangest of all (because it came out in 1994 on an American > label specialized in audio; I don't remember having seen it ever distributed): > I didn't know about this edition, but yes, my copy is on ITm, if you call it distributed. Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com> Subject: Painkiller find Date: 08 Nov 2001 13:20:39 -0600 I just wanted to report that I found Guts of a Virgin on vinyl used for $4. :) m - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Brotherhood of Breath Date: 08 Nov 2001 19:27:13 EST >Just a quick, but massive, THANK YOU to Cuneiform Records for the new >Chris McGregor/Brotherhood of Breath CD, Travelling somewhere. You're welcome. We are all happily surprised at how well received this record has been (not that it doesn't deserve it, but we have about 160 CDs that deserve it, imo...) There is a full length realaudio track on the Cuneiform site: www.cuneiformrecords.com BTW - the Kongi's Theme mix-up being credited to Wole Sowinka instead of Chris was MY fault, not Mike Fowler's. That was how it was credited on the log of the radio broadcast we were given when we got the masters to use in production, & I didn't double check it. Dumb of me. No excuse. mea culpa. Anyway, glad that some folks here are enjoying it. Steve Cuneiform - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: Re: Painkiller find Date: 08 Nov 2001 22:14:31 EST --part1_cc.16300f4.291ca417_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just wanted to report that I found Guts of a Virgin on vinyl used for $4. :) curious - which cover artwork does it have...i've only ever seen the censored version on vinyl. does anyone know if it was released on vinyl with the other cover? dave bill laswell and alice coltrane : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr mick harris : http://www.mickharris.net eraldo bernocchi : http://www.eraldobernocchi.net --part1_cc.16300f4.291ca417_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I just wanted to report that I found Guts of a Virgin on vinyl used for $4. <BR> <BR>:) <BR> <BR>m</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>curious - which cover artwork does it have...i've only ever seen the censored version on vinyl. does anyone know if it was released on vinyl with the other cover? <BR> <BR>dave <BR>bill laswell and alice coltrane : http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr <BR>mick harris : http://www.mickharris.net <BR>eraldo bernocchi : http://www.eraldobernocchi.net <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_cc.16300f4.291ca417_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kris Visser" <sstarkris@hotmail.com> Subject: 'Guts of a Virgin' movie Date: 09 Nov 2001 08:29:02 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C168F8.965C6420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello list, Speaking of Guts of a Virgin. I heard this album is named after a = Japanese horror-movie. Has anyone seen it? It is worth seeing? Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C168F8.965C6420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Speaking of Guts of a Virgin. I heard = this album is=20 named after a Japanese horror-movie. Has anyone seen it? It is worth=20 seeing?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C168F8.965C6420-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kris Visser" <sstarkris@hotmail.com> Subject: Lip Cream Date: 09 Nov 2001 08:32:03 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C168F9.020964C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello list, Can anyone provide info on the band Lip Cream? Is this a japanese group? = I saw their name at the Thank Yous of a Naked City-cd. Thanks in advance Kris n.p.:Naked City - Torture Garden ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C168F9.020964C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone provide info on the band Lip = Cream? Is=20 this a japanese group? I saw their name at the Thank Yous of a Naked=20 City-cd.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>n.p.:Naked City - Torture=20 Garden</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C168F9.020964C0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Speed Date: 09 Nov 2001 10:03:54 +0100 >From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> > >Human Feel only made one disc for Songlines, as well as one for New World, >one for GM, and one self-released on the "Human Use" label (that's in >reverse chronological order, BTW). You can find more information on all of >them in Speed's discography at www.screwgunrecords.com, assuming that those >pages have been left up since I handed the page off. a better site should be www.chrisspeed.com Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: 'Guts of a Virgin' movie Date: 09 Nov 2001 08:56:12 -0500 > Hello list, Speaking of Guts of a Virgin. I heard this album is named >after a Japanese horror-movie. Has anyone seen it? It is worth seeing? This and its companion film Entrails of a Virgin are big cult items in horror film circles. I don't think they've ever been officially released in the US but bootlegs and import videos aren't hard to come by. They're both the teens trapped in a house and killed by malevolent forces story; I didn't think they were very interesting or imaginative (unless you think a woman raped with a severed hand counts for either quality). Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: fela & laswell Date: 09 Nov 2001 16:31:26 +0100 Could you tell me more about those miles boxes at 50% of the price? ----- Original Message ----- > >speaking of good prices, though: anyone wanting the new Billie Holiday > >Columbia ten disc box, but not willing to pay $140, www.ccmusic.com is > >selling it for $110 including shipping. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RadioGong@aol.com Subject: Re: Lip Cream Date: 09 Nov 2001 11:15:26 EST Yes, Lip Cream is a japanese hardcore band. Ray << Can anyone provide info on the band Lip Cream? Is this a japanese group? I saw their name at the Thank Yous of a Naked City-cd. Thanks in advance >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" <jgthomas@nortelnetworks.com> Subject: RE: new Brotherhood of Breath Date: 09 Nov 2001 11:43:36 -0600 The new Brotherhood of Breath on Cuneiform is great, I very much agree. Thanks to Cuneiform again for issuing it. To these ears, it has more "free jazz" to it than _Live at Willisau_, though this band always had something of that element to it on all of the recordings I've ever heard. Regarding the availability of other SA jazz: Franceso Martinelli: > > > Gallo (SA) reissued on Cd the live recordings by McGregor at > the Cold castle > Jazz Festival, with Blue Notes, 1962, and the Big band album > from 1963. Does anyone know where to find these specifically? I tried musicselection.com sometime back and they could not get them. I did find the following websites for other SA jazz, but haven't tried them yet(anyone have experience with them): www.music.org.za www.oneworld.co.za John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Painkiller find Date: 09 Nov 2001 10:33:55 -0800 On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:14:31 EST Stinkipipi@aol.com wrote: > > I just wanted to report that I found Guts of a Virgin on vinyl used for $4. > > :) > > > > curious - which cover artwork does it have...i've only ever seen the censored > version on vinyl. does anyone know if it was released on vinyl with the other > cover? As far as I know, there is only one vinyl pressing and it is from Earache (UK). And yes, the picture was censored. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com> Subject: Re: Painkiller find Date: 09 Nov 2001 17:54:21 -0600 Patrice is correct, it's the censored artwork. On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:33:55AM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:14:31 EST Stinkipipi@aol.com wrote: > > > > I just wanted to report that I found Guts of a Virgin on vinyl used for $4. > > > > :) > > > > > > > > curious - which cover artwork does it have...i've only ever seen the censored > > version on vinyl. does anyone know if it was released on vinyl with the other > > cover? > > As far as I know, there is only one vinyl pressing and it is from Earache (UK). > And yes, the picture was censored. > > Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: new Brotherhood of Breath Date: 10 Nov 2001 08:27:57 +0100 > Francesco Martinelli: > > > > > Gallo (SA) reissued on Cd the live recordings by McGregor at > > the Cold castle > > Jazz Festival, with Blue Notes, 1962, and the Big band album > > from 1963. > > Does anyone know where to find these specifically? I tried > musicselection.com sometime back and they could not get them. > I did find the following websites for other SA jazz, but haven't > tried them yet(anyone have experience with them): my technique (not really, it happened by chance) was to befriend SA musicians in London, and ask them to buy copies of those during their visits home, trading with Italian wine and parmesan cheese. Barter in the times of the Internet....Roundabout maybe, but worked. Never tried any official channels so I cannot comment on those; letters, faxes and emails sent to addresses in SA, including Chris' brother's who is supposedly working on a discography or some such thing, never got any reply. Never saw those Cds in shops or catalogues. Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com> Subject: Post punk Links Date: 10 Nov 2001 20:53:23 -0800 Hello List, I've got a question maybe some of you could help me with: what are some good online resources (ezines, newsgroups, ect.) for post punk artists, ya know, bands such as wire, gang of four, the fall, pere ubu...ect. Any good links would be very helpful. Thanks lots PS any good links having to do with noise rock ( rapeman, big black, ect) would be rad too! carlos _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PaanKu@aol.com Subject: Re: calli-graff Links Date: 11 Nov 2001 00:29:44 EST i know this is a little off topic, but im looking for information on avant-garde grafitti artists, the Harings and Basquiats of the new decade. i recently read that a writer named "Revs" has been making flat metal sculptures of his tag and leaving them in graf-rich areas in his city. if anyone has links to sites that have updated information about premier writers, itd be much appreciated. also the covert art for UNKLE's album, Psyence Fiction, was done by a writer named Futura2000. Any information about other musicians who have or are currently working closely with grafitti artists would also be much appreciated. ~fishy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: RE: Post punk Links Date: 11 Nov 2001 05:10:05 -0500 >Hello List, >I've got a question maybe some of you could help me with: what are some good >online resources (ezines, newsgroups, ect.) for post punk artists, ya know, >bands such as wire, gang of four, the fall, pere ubu...ect. Any good links >would be very helpful. Thanks lots Yeah, defintely. For whatever odd reason, that's about all I've been listening to over the past few weeks; post-punk, no wave, and proto-punk, mainly Wire, Mission of Burma, Suicide, Glenn Branca/Theoretical Girls, Lydia Lunch/Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, Pere Ubu, Television, etc. andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: recommendation request Date: 09 Nov 2001 23:28:57 +0100 > Zorn/Previte/Horvitz/Sharp: "Downtown Lullaby", four grandmasters of > improvised music doing their best Was I the only on e to be very unimpressed with this release? Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "in.out" <in.out@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Gong On tour de France/ Gong Request (NZC) Date: 11 Nov 2001 15:54:38 +0100 Sorry for such a personal request. I am the Promoter of The French Gong Tour this Nov-Dec in France and I am looking for some good quality images of the Band live to be played by local tv information to support the tour. If You have anything to help me, please e-mail me privately. Thanks Mikl GONG ON TOUR IN FRANCE : November Wed 28 - France, Marseille (13), Espace Julien www.espace-julien.com Thr 29 - France, Grasse (06), Theatre www.Velodog.com Fri 30 - France, Grasse (06), Theatre www.Velodog.com December Sun 09 - France, Montpiellier (34), RockStore Tue 11 - France, Bordeaux (33), Barbey Rock School Wed 12 - France, Maubec (30), La Gare +04 90 76 77 99 Thu 13 - France, Gap (05) Psych=E9 Live Cafe Fri 14 - France, Paris (75), New Morning www.newmorning.com Sat 15 - France, Nancy (54), Terminal Export +03 83 35 76 76 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philip Clarkson <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: A Gift for London Date: 11 Nov 2001 15:26:15 +0000 Heads up for what should be a fantastic concert at the Barbican in London next year : John Zorn - The Gift with Marc Ribot, Jamie Saft, Dave Douglas, Joey Baron & Cyro Baptista. World Premiere. March 25th. Box Office - 020706388891. www.barbican.org Phil Clarkson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: recommendation request Date: 11 Nov 2001 16:43:10 +0100 > > Zorn/Previte/Horvitz/Sharp: "Downtown Lullaby", four grandmasters of > > improvised music doing their best > > Was I the only on e to be very unimpressed with this release? > Marcin > I was thinking the same thing when I read the 'doing their best' bit: at first I thought that was ironical. I will dig 'Downtown Lullaby' up, to give it another try. I did like the Zorn/ Previte duet on the same label, though. Perhaps I expected more of those miniature masterpieces, when I bought the second Zorn/ Previte collaboration. I feel it's the right moment now, to go back to 'Lullaby', and listen to it with fresh ears... Later, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann <TimBlechmann@gmx.net> Subject: Re[2]: recommendation request Date: 11 Nov 2001 19:31:02 +0100 >> > Zorn/Previte/Horvitz/Sharp: "Downtown Lullaby", four grandmasters of >> > improvised music doing their best >> >> Was I the only on e to be very unimpressed with this release? >> Marcin >> RT> I was thinking the same thing when I read the 'doing their best' bit: at RT> first I thought that was ironical. I will dig 'Downtown Lullaby' up, to give RT> it another try. I did like the Zorn/ Previte duet on the same label, though. RT> Perhaps I expected more of those miniature masterpieces, when I bought the RT> second Zorn/ Previte collaboration. I feel it's the right moment now, to go RT> back to 'Lullaby', and listen to it with fresh ears... Once i talked with elliott sharp about this record and he didn't like it so much, either. myself, i like it very much. especially the way of improvising. in some ways it is similar to the "euclid's lightmare' cd (Zorn / Previte), but it is not that noisy. i really don't know why there are several people, who don't like it. there should be a second cd of this group that is not released right now. maybe there are more people who will like that one... PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Post punk Links Date: 12 Nov 2001 11:05:56 -0800 > Yeah, defintely. For whatever odd reason, that's about all I've been listening > to over the past few weeks; post-punk, no wave, and proto-punk, mainly Wire, > Mission of Burma, Suicide, Glenn Branca/Theoretical Girls, Lydia Lunch/Teenage > Jesus and the Jerks, Pere Ubu, Television, etc. > > andrew > Treat yourself to the Stickmen disc, INSATIABLE (Cuneiform). All the best elements of that school of thought are well-represented and then some. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Post punk Links Date: 11 Nov 2001 20:30:10 +0100 > Treat yourself to the Stickmen disc, INSATIABLE (Cuneiform). All the best > elements of that school of thought are well-represented and then some. > > skip h Wow, great, there's someone else out there who knows that record! I got my Stickmen copy from drummer Jim Meneses, when he was playing midi marimba in a Dutch-American Sun Ra tribute by Steve Horowitz Mousetrap Quartet; last year. Meneses mastered Ra's keyboard style by triggering samples with four sticks. When he didn't play 'marimba sun ra keyboards', he constructed cool breaks out of four drum samples, or he played some of the more regular marimba sounds. It was very impressive, and I hope that the proposed 'Steve Horowitz Mousetrap Quartet Plays Sun Ra live at the Bimhuis' will be released in the near future. np Kris Defoort/ Fabrizio Cassol: Variations on A Love Supreme (De Werf Records, Belgium) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Post punk Links Date: 12 Nov 2001 14:59:13 -0800 >> Treat yourself to the Stickmen disc, INSATIABLE (Cuneiform). All the best >> elements of that school of thought are well-represented and then some. >> >> skip h > Wow, great, there's someone else out there who knows that record! I got my > Stickmen copy from drummer Jim Meneses, when he was playing midi marimba in > a Dutch-American Sun Ra tribute by Steve Horowitz Mousetrap Quartet; last > year. > I used to go see them every week back in Philly. You have no idea what you missed. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: New Sale List... Date: 11 Nov 2001 18:43:02 -0500 Excuse moolahcentric subject, but I'm trying to climbt out of a hole: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html Thanks for looking, Rick Lopez ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: Post punk Links Date: 11 Nov 2001 22:37:29 -0500 Speaking of Mission of Burma, anyone know anything about a reunion? They're reportedly playing Irving Plaza on January 12... Me, I've just discovered another classic many years after the fact: 'Deceit' by This Heat, which I bought on impulse at Other Music the other day, thanks to a thoughtful sign placed on the shelf by (former?) Z-lister Dan. I've only listened once, and it reminded me a bit of Gang of Four on codeine... just can't decide if it's them that's dosed, or me... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of ahorton Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 5:10 AM Yeah, defintely. For whatever odd reason, that's about all I've been listening to over the past few weeks; post-punk, no wave, and proto-punk, mainly Wire, Mission of Burma, Suicide, Glenn Branca/Theoretical Girls, Lydia Lunch/Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, Pere Ubu, Television, etc. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: Post punk Links Date: 11 Nov 2001 22:54:09 -0500 >Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 20:53:23 -0800 >From: "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com> > >I've got a question maybe some of you could help me with: what are some >good online resources (ezines, newsgroups, ect.) for post punk artists, ya >know, bands such as wire, gang of four, the fall, pere ubu...ect. Any >good links would be very helpful. Thanks lots Wire's website = http://www.wiremailorder.com/wmo.htm The Fall's website = http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/6401/ Pere Ubu's website = http://www.dnai.com/~obo/ubu/ Good newsgroups: alt.music.alternative, alt.music.independent Mission of Burma are indeed reuniting for two shows- one in Boston, one in NYC. Already got my ticket for the latter. See http://www.missionofburma.com Best, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: PD: koncert zorna Date: 12 Nov 2001 11:12:46 +0100 Hi, I 've been asked to put that request on list > >Heads up for what should be a fantastic concert at the Barbican in >London next year : > > > >John Zorn - The Gift > >with Marc Ribot, Jamie Saft, Dave Douglas, Joey Baron & Cyro Baptista. World > >Premiere. March 25th. Box Office - 020706388891. www.barbican.org > > > >Phil Clarkson > Could someone confirm this? I've just checked the web site (which, by the way, is www.barbican.org.uk) > and there are only two theatrical events scheduled for March 25th. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: A disc with torn and swallow Date: 12 Nov 2001 12:44:01 +0100 Hi, I recently found a cd that featued torn and swallow . I did not buy it, and could not find it again. Can anyone tell me what was the album's name, etc.? Thanks, Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: A disc with torn and swallow Date: 12 Nov 2001 07:08:44 -0500 At 12:44 PM 11/12/01 +0100, Marcin Gokieli wrote: >Hi, >I recently found a cd that featued torn and swallow . I did not buy >it, and could not find it again. Can anyone tell me what was the >album's name, etc.? There may be others, but a recent Cuneiform release by poet Robert Creeley has his readings backed by Swallow and Torn. You can read about it at http://cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/creeley.html. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Hiznay <letucepry@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #610 Date: 12 Nov 2001 04:54:20 -0800 (PST) Wow, Lydia Lunch/Teenage Jesus and the Jerks Little Orphans Running through the Bloody Snow! Little Orphans Running through the Bloody Snow! Little Orphans Running through the Blood, through the Blood, through the Blood.... Reeennuuunuuurennuuunnuuurennuuunnuuuunreeennnuuure!!!! does anyone else sense that Teenage Jesus and the Jerks was a huge influence on the Guitar player for Melt Bananna? mushmush __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: re: early McGregor/Blue Notes releases Date: 12 Nov 2001 08:31:38 EST AFAIK, *both* Gallo CDs are out of print. This info came to me from Maxine McGregor and also from a guy who works in music distribution in South Africa. I have never even heard the Blue Notes CD! I have heard the other one. Too bad these came & went so fast; there'd be a lot more interest these days... >> > Gallo (SA) reissued on Cd the live recordings by McGregor at >> > the Cold castle >> > Jazz Festival, with Blue Notes, 1962, and the Big band album >> > from 1963. Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Zorn and Zionism, Daniel Carter article, Acid Mothers interview Date: 12 Nov 2001 14:46:30 +0000 >In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever ><http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find (among other things): > >ZORN AND ZIONISM >What are the religious/political dimensions of the work of the great >saxist/composer/record company maven? We do anticipate constructive >commentary from our friends on this mailing list! I just read this article and found it extremely interesting. I would love to hear Zorn himself comment on it, but I guess there is little chance of that. I┤m reminded of Fred Frith┤s comment in an old interview with him and Zorn: "You┤re an apolitical dumbshit"! ;-) Personally, I was never a big fan of the "Radical Jewish Culture" expression, especially not in these weeks (but I do still love the music). Can you imagine the reactions if some avant garde label started a "Radical Muslim Culture"-series? Cheers, _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeroen de Boer <jeroen@cyberslag.nl> Subject: again.. Date: 12 Nov 2001 16:23:41 +0100 Again I give my condolences to all the American members on the list.. I hope everyone from NY who is a member of the list is ok. Take care, Jeroen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: [off subject] and for a laugh... Date: 12 Nov 2001 08:37:40 -0800 (PST) something to take your mind off the plane crash. http://oddtodd.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: again.. Date: 12 Nov 2001 18:10:36 +0100 (CET) We're at the office and still not too sure of what's going on in NY again. Hopefully all members here, their friends and relatives are sound and safe. All the best, EfrΘn del Valle > > Again I give my condolences to all the American > members on the list.. I hope > everyone from NY who is a member of the list is ok. > > Take care, > > Jeroen > > > > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: PD: koncert zorna Date: 12 Nov 2001 19:24:31 +0100 (CET) > > >Phil Clarkson > > > Could someone confirm this? I've just checked the > web site (which, > by the way, is www.barbican.org.uk) > > and there are only two theatrical events scheduled > for March 25th. It's also featured among Dave Douglas' commitments for 2002 at his website. Shouldn't be a rumor. Best, EfrΘn del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: early McGregor/Blue Notes releases Date: 12 Nov 2001 19:58:29 +0100 > Too bad these came & went so fast; there'd be a lot more interest these > days... > Maybe you could tell the guy you know there to forward the message to Gallo! Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: early McGregor/Blue Notes releases Date: 12 Nov 2001 15:06:37 EST In a message dated 11/12/01 5:32:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, CuneiWay@aol.com writes: << AFAIK, *both* Gallo CDs are out of print. This info came to me from Maxine McGregor and also from a guy who works in music distribution in South Africa. I have never even heard the Blue Notes CD! I have heard the other one. Too bad these came & went so fast; there'd be a lot more interest these days... >> Yes, There would be a lot of interest in their reissues there days. I know Ogun is slowly reissueing some things. Some things on that label have turned up new on lp. I don't know if they just came upon a lot of old copies or if they reissued them on lp. I got Procession,Blue Notes For Johnny, and Moholo's Spirits Rejoice on lp from Cadence a few years back. One B of B record I'm looking for is "Yes Please" from the early 80s on the In and Out label and has additional members you wouldn't expect, like Louis Sclavis, John Tchicai and Andre Goudbeek. I'm also looking for a Spear record that Dudu Pukwana was on that was from the 70s I believe. I also found a mid 70s Mcgregor solo "Piano Song Vol. 1" thats interesting but a little too repetitive for my tastes. Someone was looking for the Maxine Mcgregor book. I saw a used copy at Moes in Berkeley a couple of weeks ago. If you don't live in the area, they'd probably mail it to you. I picked up Wilmers' "As Serious As Your Life" used while I was there. John Threadgould NP Gushwachs Looking forward to seeing ICP Orchestra tonight - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Zorn and Zionism, Daniel Carter article, Acid Mothers interview Date: 12 Nov 2001 14:34:15 -0600 On Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 02:46:30PM +0000, Arthur Gadney wrote: > Personally, I was never a big fan of the "Radical Jewish Culture" > expression, especially not in these weeks (but I do still love the music). > Can you imagine the reactions if some avant garde label started a "Radical > Muslim Culture"-series? Why not? There's a possibility of lots of good music coming from it. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Zorn and Zionism, Daniel Carter article, Acid Mothers interview Date: 12 Nov 2001 21:56:58 +0100 > >In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever > ><http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find (among other things): > > > >ZORN AND ZIONISM > >What are the religious/political dimensions of the work of the great > >saxist/composer/record company maven? We do anticipate constructive > >commentary from our friends on this mailing list! > In above article, there's some wild lawn mowing going on, philosophically. This <long> article tries to cover so much ground, that annoyingly dumb opinions occur on the side, for instance the much repeated statement that bebop jazz was an all-black affair, and then, sharing the free jazz movement under the same black banner. Remember: the influential Jazz Composers Guild was wildly mixed, for instance. Sun Ra, Paul Bley, Cecil Taylor and jewish improvisor Burton Greene worked together there. Genealogical homogeneity in jazz, either bebop or free? Where should a guy like John Tchicai be put genealogically, being half Congolese, half Danish? These incorrect commonplaces do not help strengthen the point that is being made. And it doesn't help reading this stuff out. A long quote, to illustrate my point: Cartoonist Harvey Pekar's conversations with Zorn about Masada, depicted in a short comics series, reveal that Zorn formed Masada, in part, so that he could play jazz without being accused of "ripping off" African-American musicians. The other musicians in the band are Jewish and have all contributed greatly to the Radical Jewish Series of CD's. Thus, we have Zorn reinterpreting jazz as Jewish, mirroring the genealogical homogeneity of the original be-bop groups as well as of the groups formed by the be-boppers' free jazz younger brothers. However, the difference remains: Zorn's is a contrived grouping, Jewish players hand-picked out of an extremely diverse community of players, while the be-bop players lived in, and performed in, segregated communities. What does it mean to form an all-Jewish jazz group? Why is forming an all-Jewish jazz group important? Remco Takken np: Herbie Hancock, Future Shock (aw... it's space shuttle/ pacman nostalgia!! Roller Disco...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn and Zionism, Daniel Carter article, Acid Mothers Date: 12 Nov 2001 15:07:17 -0600 I found this article to be less that wonderful, covering much of the same turf as discussions here previously. Here are some questions and comments that I have after reading it. 1. Isn't it possible to be "radical" by removing oneself entirely from a mainstream political dichotomy? Why must one be pro or anti-israel to be radical?=20 Another example: If artist A is anti-abortion and audience members are overwhelmingly pro-choice, does the audience assume that even if artist A makes anti-abortion statements that artist A condones the killing of abortion doctors? Of course not. I doubt anyone would make this leap, yet the author is willing to make many such leaps in an equally, if not more, complicated set of circumstances. Are the AACM (creators of "Great Black Music") necessarily responsible for commenting on, say, Hutu-Tutsi wars? Why? Why would I care what musicians think about politics any more than, say, political experts or writers or my neighbors or the kid on the bus with a mowhawk - hey, he's radical too! 2. Elliott Sharp's quote is fairly meaningless. He seems to have not even bothered to talk to Zorn about what RJC might mean. I also note that he was ok enough with whatever his take on it is to let Zorn pay for and produce his record on that series. 3. Fred Ho is either dim or blinded by looking for anti-asian racism and sexism. Yes, Torture Garden did contain prints of Japanese women being tortured (drawn by Japanese artists, I might add). Let's take a look at some other Zorn album cover art: Naked City - Dead white guy on cover Grand Guignol - White cadavers and dissected white guy skull and medical instruments Leng T'Che - Tortured Chinese man (I think) Painkiller - Serial Killer shots of dead white women, writing in blood and handcuffed hands unearthing a skull Kristallnacht - The Nazi Ideal / The Nazi Reality photos Radio - Man Ray photo of naked white woman The Gift - Japanese kiddie-porn violence cartoons Spy vs. Spy - Was supposed to be the black spy and the white spy stabbing each other in the back There are many more examples. The one thing that comes through all of these is that they are supposed to be images that shock the viewer. Some are more effective than others. The Grand Guignol is as gruesome as Torture Garden, but no one seems to think Zorn has a fetish for white guys with holes in their skulls. Hmm. Duh, people, he's trying to get a rise out of you.=20 Just because some people think they know what Zorn's "racist erotic fascinations" are because of some of his album covers means nothing. So we don't know what Fred Ho's proclivities are, can we assume that they are not as racist or violent or whatever as Zorn's or anyone elses? Because Zorn is interested in images of tortured Japanese women (among other things), can we assume that he is into actually torturing women or even finds the representation erotic? Way too many things are being assumed here.=20 A counter-example: I am fascinated by photos of surgery, but am completely squeamish in real life - I can't stand the sight of someone's blood (strangely, if I cut myself it doesn't really bother me). Do I therefore find surgery "erotic?" (the correct answer is no, just interesting). 4.>That being said, could it be that the current role of art in culture and the deeds of artists are > impoverished and useless? And as incredible and beautiful as Zorn=92s music is, in the end, it is > nothing but a series of statements limited within a self-circumscribed community of artists that > professes to be, somehow, radical. This is politically sanitized for academic musicians and polite > bourgeois only. Please take notice, however, that all this bitching about Zorn=92s music and the > Radical Jewish Culture series applies to the sorry condition of almost all new music; local > hardcore and underground hip-hop scenes being a couple of notable exceptions. In this music > you will find subject matter about power and current events integrated within other human topics; > this was how music existed long before the commodified, self-referencing escapism we consume > now.=20 So what? When have artists ever really made a difference in politics? John Lennon did not stop the war in Vietnam, Vaclav Havel did not end communism in Czechoslovakia with his plays, etc. These artists were representing the same things that many people were feeling in their cultures. Please tell me what local hardcore band has ever had any sort of political effect. I don't think you can even give Fugazi credit for any kind of large scale political effect.=20 I think it's best to remember that all politics are personal and claiming that Zorn & co. don't meet your criteria for "radical-osity" doesn't really mean anything at all. It's much easier to tear someone else down, than create something that provokes this much discussion. By the way, I would love to hear a Radical Muslim Culture series. Rob At 02:46 PM 11/12/01 +0000, Arthur Gadney wrote: >>In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever >><http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find (among other things): >> >>ZORN AND ZIONISM >>What are the religious/political dimensions of the work of the great >>saxist/composer/record company maven? We do anticipate constructive >>commentary from our friends on this mailing list! > >I just read this article and found it extremely interesting. I would love= to=20 >hear Zorn himself comment on it, but I guess there is little chance of= that. > >I=B4m reminded of Fred Frith=B4s comment in an old interview with him and= Zorn:=20 >"You=B4re an apolitical dumbshit"! ;-) > >Personally, I was never a big fan of the "Radical Jewish Culture"=20 >expression, especially not in these weeks (but I do still love the music).= =20 >Can you imagine the reactions if some avant garde label started a "Radical= =20 >Muslim Culture"-series? > >Cheers, > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >- >=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Careful With That Adze Date: 12 Nov 2001 13:24:29 -0800 By the way, I would love to hear a Radical Muslim Culture series. Rob _________________________________ Check out the House of Chadula. Eugene has several appropriate offerings of such. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Careful With That Adze Date: 12 Nov 2001 23:02:04 +0100 > By the way, I would love to hear a Radical Muslim Culture series. > > Rob In Holland, a group of young (Dutch, Spanish and South Indian) musicians and composers is diving into the mozarabic music culture: they are still way underground, no recordings yet, just a few impressive world premieres last summer. Radical Muslim Culture is brewing... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: Zorn and Zionism, Daniel Carter article, Acid Mothers interview Date: 12 Nov 2001 18:19:55 -0500 For the sake of clarity and no other reason: Dave Douglas is not Jewish, and has only contributed to radical Jewish culture as a willing sideman - as he has proven willing to play with any number of other musicians, regardless of extramusical considerations. You're correct about Cohen and Baron, of course. It was Baron, in fact, who started Zorn on his journey of self-discovery. And did anybody ever *really* accuse Zorn of "ripping off" African-American musicians by playing jazz? Or was that Pekar's take on something Zorn said? I'd be curious to know. I'd think it's been at least a few decades since anyone has hurled that particular barb at anyone in seriousness, but I might certainly have my head in the sand there... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Remco Takken [snip] Zorn formed Masada, in part, so that he could play jazz without being accused of "ripping off" African-American musicians. The other musicians in the band are Jewish and have all contributed greatly to the Radical Jewish Series of CD's. [snip] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn and Zionism Date: 12 Nov 2001 18:36:42 -0500 (EST) Hello all: The article cited was pretty amateurish and too "gee whiz"-ish to cope with such a major topic. It also took for granted many suppositions about Europe in the 1930s and The Middle East right now that may have different shadings on further examination. That said, Remco in his post dealt succiently with some of the mistatements, but he too included a few incorrect generalities. If you're going to speak about the ethnic breakdown of the Jazz Composersb Guild, Paul Bley too is Jewish --and I'm not sure of Mike Mantler or Jon Winter's religious affiliation. (And which side of the Jewish/Gentile equation does Sun Ra fall?) Also I keep reading about how all the memberes of Masada are Jewish. Unless I'm missing something I've always assumed that Dave Douglas is Christian. Am I wrong? Ken Waxman --- Remco Takken <r.takken@planet.nl> wrote: > > >In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever > > ><http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find > (among other things): > > > > > >ZORN AND ZIONISM > > >What are the religious/political dimensions of > the work of the great > > >saxist/composer/record company maven? We do > anticipate constructive > > >commentary from our friends on this mailing list! > > > In above article, there's some wild lawn mowing > going on, philosophically. > > This <long> article tries to cover so much ground, > that annoyingly dumb > opinions occur on the side, for instance the much > repeated statement that > bebop jazz was an all-black affair, and then, > sharing the free jazz movement > under the same black banner. Remember: the > influential Jazz Composers Guild > was wildly mixed, for instance. Sun Ra, Paul Bley, > Cecil Taylor and jewish > improvisor Burton Greene worked together there. > > Genealogical homogeneity in jazz, either bebop or > free? Where should a guy > like John Tchicai be put genealogically, being half > Congolese, half Danish? > > These incorrect commonplaces do not help strengthen > the point that is being > made. And it doesn't help reading this stuff out. > > A long quote, to illustrate my point: > Cartoonist Harvey Pekar's conversations with Zorn > about Masada, depicted in > a short comics series, reveal that Zorn formed > Masada, in part, so that he > could play jazz without being accused of "ripping > off" African-American > musicians. The other musicians in the band are > Jewish and have all > contributed greatly to the Radical Jewish Series of > CD's. Thus, we have Zorn > reinterpreting jazz as Jewish, mirroring the > genealogical homogeneity of the > original be-bop groups as well as of the groups > formed by the be-boppers' > free jazz younger brothers. > > However, the difference remains: Zorn's is a > contrived grouping, Jewish > players hand-picked out of an extremely diverse > community of players, while > the be-bop players lived in, and performed in, > segregated communities. What > does it mean to form an all-Jewish jazz group? Why > is forming an all-Jewish > jazz group important? > > Remco Takken > > np: Herbie Hancock, Future Shock (aw... it's space > shuttle/ pacman > nostalgia!! Roller Disco...) > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: early McGregor/Blue Notes releases Date: 12 Nov 2001 18:42:59 -0500 (EST) Or maybe Cuneiform could work out a way with the owners to add those discs to its already impressive group of jazz/free improv reissues. Ken Waxman (What d'ya think Steve?) --- Francesco Martinelli <fmartinelli@tin.it> wrote: > > Too bad these came & went so fast; there'd be a > lot more interest these > > days... > > > > Maybe you could tell the guy you know there to > forward the message to Gallo! > > Francesco > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: New music in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November 13, Date: 12 Nov 2001 22:21:42 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>, you'll hear electronic music from the West Coast of North America by Martin Bartlett, John Bischoff, Chris Brown, Paul De Marinis, Paul Dolden, Peter Hannan, Jim Horton, David Mahler, Maggi Payne, and Carl Stone. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0500 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music inspired by Tibetan Buddhist Milarepa composed by Eliane Radigue) is still available in the Mappings archive <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philip Clarkson <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: London Gift Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:30:49 +0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3088488654_61540_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:12:46 +0100 > From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> > Subject: PD: koncert zorna > Hi, I 've been asked to put that request on list >>> Heads up for what should be a fantastic concert at the Barbican in >> London next year : >>> John Zorn - The Gift >>> with Marc Ribot, Jamie Saft, Dave Douglas, Joey Baron & Cyro > Baptista. World >>> Premiere. March 25th. Box Office - 020706388891. www.barbican.org >>> >>> Phil Clarkson >> Could someone confirm this? I've just checked the web site (which, > by the way, is www.barbican.org.uk) >> and there are only two theatrical events scheduled for March 25th. Sorry I made a mistake with the website address, but the concert IS going ahead - it may not be on the site yet. The concert is advertised in programmes at the current London Jazz Festival. Phil Clarkson --MS_Mac_OE_3088488654_61540_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>London Gift</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <TT>> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:12:46 +0100<BR> > From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl><BR> > Subject: PD: koncert zorna<BR> > Hi, I 've been asked to put that request on list<BR> >>> Heads up for what should be a fantastic concert at the Barbica= n in<BR> >> London next year :<BR> >>> John Zorn - The Gift<BR> >>> with Marc Ribot, Jamie Saft, Dave Douglas, Joey Baron & Cy= ro<BR> > Baptista. World<BR> >>> Premiere. March 25th. Box Office - 020706388891. www.barbican.= org<BR> >>> <BR> >>> Phil Clarkson<BR> >> Could someone confirm this? I've just checked the web site (which,= <BR> > by the way, is www.barbican.org.uk)<BR> >> and there are only two theatrical events scheduled for March 25th.= <BR> <BR> Sorry I made a mistake with the website address, but the concert IS going a= head - it may not be on the site yet. The concert is advertised in programme= s at the current London Jazz Festival.<BR> <BR> Phil Clarkson<BR> </TT> </BODY> </HTML> --MS_Mac_OE_3088488654_61540_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: the gift, live? Date: 13 Nov 2001 05:02:29 -0500 Hey guys- I'm looking for a live CDR of the gift, live in NYC. Does anyone have anything by them? It's my favorite Zorn release. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Zorn and Zionism Date: 13 Nov 2001 12:49:52 +0100 > If you're going to speak about the ethnic breakdown > of the Jazz Composersb Guild, Paul Bley too is Jewish Another future gem in the ongoing radical jewish music series... Thanks for your rightly addition, Ken Regards, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" <alankayser@hotmail.com> Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:00:42 -0500 Remco Takken wrote: "However, the difference remains: Zorn's is a contrived grouping, Jewish players hand-picked out of an extremely diverse community of players, while the be-bop players lived in, and performed in, segregated communities. What does it mean to form an all-Jewish jazz group? Why is forming an all-Jewish jazz group important?" Sorry, but Dave Douglas is NOT Jewish! Straight from the horse's mouth. And if he were, I would say that Mr. Zorn certainly has the right to form any sort of group he likes. Perhaps it was simply picking players that he felt were best fitted to the music. This is a mean-spirited and misinformed statement, no better than blaming Ellington for forming an all-Afro-American orchestra. Would you ask "Why is forming an all-Black group important?" or does this just apply to Jewish musicians? Alan E. Kayser _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" <patbor@buzzle.com> Subject: RJC-Zorn-Douglas discussion Date: 13 Nov 2001 11:33:02 -0500 Robert A. Pleshar and Alan E. Kayser, thanks for polishing the RJC-Zorn-Douglas discussion. Patb You wrote: 1. Isn't it possible to be "radical" by removing oneself entirely from a mainstream political dichotomy? Why must one be pro or anti-israel to be radical? Another example: If artist A is anti-abortion and audience members are overwhelmingly pro-choice, does the audience assume that even if artist A makes anti-abortion statements that artist A condones the killing of abortion doctors? Of course not. I doubt anyone would make this leap, yet the author is willing to make many such leaps in an equally, if not more, complicated set of circumstances. [...] So what? When have artists ever really made a difference in politics? John Lennon did not stop the war in Vietnam, Vaclav Havel did not end communism in Czechoslovakia with his plays, etc. These artists were representing the same things that many people were feeling in their cultures. Please tell me what local hardcore band has ever had any sort of political effect. I don't think you can even give Fugazi credit for any kind of large scale political effect. I think it's best to remember that all politics are personal and claiming that Zorn & co. don't meet your criteria for "radical-osity" doesn't really mean anything at all. It's much easier to tear someone else down, than create something that provokes this much discussion. By the way, I would love to hear a Radical Muslim Culture series. Rob Sorry, but Dave Douglas is NOT Jewish! Straight from the horse's mouth. And if he were, I would say that Mr. Zorn certainly has the right to form any sort of group he likes. Perhaps it was simply picking players that he felt were best fitted to the music. This is a mean-spirited and misinformed statement, no better than blaming Ellington for forming an all-Afro-American orchestra. Would you ask "Why is forming an all-Black group important?" or does this just apply to Jewish musicians? Alan E. Kayser - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re:Careful With That Racially Stereotyped Adze Date: 13 Nov 2001 19:22:54 +0000 > >By the way, I would love to hear a Radical Muslim Culture series. Some releases on the Barbarity label (Ahlam, Aisha Kandisha's Jarring Effects, Hamid Baroudi, etc.)might fall under this heading... np: Mingus Tijuana Moods _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: Date: 13 Nov 2001 21:42:26 +0100 (CET) > Sorry, but Dave Douglas is NOT Jewish! Straight > from the horse's mouth. > And if he were, I would say that Mr. Zorn certainly > has the right to form > any sort of group he likes. Perhaps it was simply > picking players that he > felt were best fitted to the music. That's something I'm sure of, but the fact that Zorn's always surrounded by Jewish musicians, regardless of the subject presented by him in a given performance or album, probably has some meaning. Or is it a mere coincidence? Could be. And yes, the musicians could hardly be better. This is a > mean-spirited and misinformed > statement, no better than blaming Ellington for > forming an all-Afro-American > orchestra. "Mean-spirited" and "misinformed" are ugly, disrespectful adjectives. I refer to that as SOMEONE'S POINT OF VIEW instead. Sounds much better, doesn't it? Would you ask "Why is forming an > all-Black group important?" or > does this just apply to Jewish musicians? > Yes, I would ask it. And I would ask it because a Jew has a reason to form a Jewish ensemble just like a Gipsy has a reason to form a Gipsy band. Races that have suffered social rejection in some moment of history have a (logical, IMHO) tendency to exile themselves within the margins of their own community, to put their trust in those they consider their peers. I think this attitude may not be wise or "politically correct" (do you have that concept in English?) but it's totally legitimate. There's a big difference between what society should be like and what it actually is, and cliches DO EXIST. You should hear so many people talking about the Jews without having ever met one. A real shame. Best, EfrΘn del Valle n.p: Eric Dolphy "Out to Lunch" _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" <alankayser@hotmail.com> Subject: Sorry Remco Date: 13 Nov 2001 17:01:03 -0500 I must send an apology to Remco Takken, whom I mistakenly "credited" with the remarks about Zorn and his choice of Jewish bandmates in Masada. The quote was not Mr. Takken's so please refrain from sending him any nasty emails. Alan E. Kayser _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: Set Fire To Flames Date: 14 Nov 2001 05:55:46 -0800 (PST) Shifting the focus away from nyc, I am getting into some of the montreal's music. This review is really well written and has piqued my interest. Anyone want to chime in on reviews of Set Fire to Flames:Sings Reign Rebuilder? http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/s/set-fire-to-flames/sings-reign-rebuilder.shtml I think the reviews on this site are really well written [not to mention the site is really well designed]. It has more of an indie focus with the occasional smattering of jazz. J __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: RE: Set Fire To Flames Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:23:00 -0500 >I think the reviews on this site are really well written [not to >mention the site is really well designed]. It has more of an indie >focus with the occasional smattering of jazz. I love and hate Pitchforkmedia.com - i love them because they have the balls to really rip into records, and everyone there has that cynical approach to everything; I hate them because it's a straight-up indie rock mag that occasionally has the pretentiousness to throw in a "sophisticated" jazz review. Jazz for these kids is a token thing- the only thing that allows them to get more snobby and act more faux-higbrow than their precious post-rock and twee-pop. As far as the set fire to flames record- I just got it. I was salivating when I read about it, but the end result is boring as fuck. Everyone involved has put out some amazing stuff in the past- but if you think Godspeed's stuff is often overwrought and and boring, then you'll hate this. There are few drones, and few melodic moments- for the most part, it's clicking, chiming, and clanging that never quite goes anywhere. Great idea, bad execution. andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" <patbor@buzzle.com> Subject: RE: Set Fire To Flames Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:22:43 -0500 Jason, visiting the pitchforkmedia site the eye fell on a review of "Is this it" by The Strokes a rock group being called the new Velvet Underground and stuff like that. Ryan Schreiber wrote the review, fortunately someone engaged himself in clarifying what should really be said about The Strokes, no similarities with VU neither with Lou Reed. I thank You and I will thank Ryan too. Bye Patb ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >Shifting the focus away from nyc, I am getting into some of the >montreal's music. This review is really well written and has piqued my >interest. Anyone want to chime in on reviews of Set Fire to >Flames:Sings Reign Rebuilder? > >http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/s/set-fire-to-flames/sings-reign-rebuilder.shtml > >I think the reviews on this site are really well written [not to >mention the site is really well designed]. It has more of an indie >focus with the occasional smattering of jazz. > >J > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals >http://personals.yahoo.com > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:31:25 -0500 Am I the only one that doesn't "get" Zorn's gamepieces? I absolutley love the idea behind them- but I'm really starting to feel that it's one of those things that "looks great on paper", but doesn't translate into the real world. Sure, there are exceptions- "Xu Feng" blows my mind (talk about post-rock!), but "Cobra", and "pool" and etc. just sound stupid to me. I know that's a bold, sweeping generalization, but really- when I listen to Cobra, etc. I hear noise- honking, screeching chaos. I understand that there's a plan behind all of this- hence the gamepiece itself- but it just sounds uncontrolled and stupid to me. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything; but I feel that many Zorn-heads hold these sacred cows like "Cobra" as "high art", and dismiss anyone else that pretends to not get into it as "beneath" the gamepiece. What am I missing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 09:57:56 -0600 On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 10:31:25AM -0500, ahorton wrote: > Am I the only one that doesn't "get" Zorn's gamepieces? I absolutley love > the idea behind them- but I'm really starting to feel that it's one of those > things that "looks great on paper", but doesn't translate into the real world. > Sure, there are exceptions- "Xu Feng" blows my mind (talk about > post-rock!), but "Cobra", and "pool" and etc. just sound stupid to me. I > know that's a bold, sweeping generalization, but really- when I listen to > Cobra, etc. I hear noise- honking, screeching chaos. I understand that > there's a plan behind all of this- hence the gamepiece itself- but it just > sounds uncontrolled and stupid to me. I don't really "get" much of the game piece recordings, such as "Pool", "Archery", etc. ("Cobra" seems a tad more coherent to me is its recordings). I prefer, in process/game pieces, that the process be audible, or, at least, explained in liner notes or something. Otherwise, listening to these pieces are like the old gag about people telling jokes by number. From the reactions, you know that something's happening, but you don't know what it is (do you, Mr Jones?). -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:54:49 +0100 Hi there... Well - I also only ever listened to "Archery" and "Cobra" maybe three times in my life. I agree that the ideas of the game pieces looks great on paper - but like yourself I'm not too fond of the outcome of the music. I need to be in a very special frame of mind to get any enjoyment out of it at all. Unfortunately I've never seen any of the game pieces live - as far as others on the list who have seen them live have stated here, seeing any of them opens a whole new perspective, because the visual element adds quite a bit of excitement. patRice np: John Barry, Themeology nr: JT LeRoy, Sarah ahorton wrote: > Am I the only one that doesn't "get" Zorn's gamepieces? I absolutley love > the idea behind them- but I'm really starting to feel that it's one of those > things that "looks great on paper", but doesn't translate into the real world. > Sure, there are exceptions- "Xu Feng" blows my mind (talk about > post-rock!), <snip> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: Greg Kelley/Jason Lescalleet-Forlorn Green Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:29:16 EST sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: Greg Kelley/Jason Lescalleet-Forlorn Green (Erstwhile 019) Over the last few years, the Boston/Cambridge improv scene has emerged as=20 potentially the most exciting in the US. Greg Kelley and Jason Lescalleet ar= e=20 two of the most compelling figures in this scene.=20 Kelley, a stunningly original trumpeter, graduated from the Peabody=20 Conservatory of Music in 1995. He has since garnered much praise for his unique vocabulary o= f=20 extended techniques and timbral manipulation. In 1998, Kelley began a patter= n=20 of dedicated touring, performing throughout the United States, Europe, and=20 Japan. These travels have led to numerous collaborations, including ones wit= h=20 Anthony Braxton, Paul Lovens, Keiji Haino, Eddie Prevost, Kevin Drumm and=20 John Butcher. Kelley is best known for his work in the duo nmperign with Bho= b=20 Rainey and for his breathtaking solo record on Meniscus, simply titled=20 Trumpet. Lescalleet has been working with different styles of music for over a decade= ,=20 focusing on the use of tapes for much of that period. In live performance, h= e=20 uses reel-to-reel tape decks to explore the textures of low fidelity analog=20 sounds and the natural phenomena of old tape and obsolete technology. He=20 blends layers of ambient tapeloops, moving through levels of silence and=20 white noise, all transformed through cheap microphones and trashed speakers.= =20 For his studio work, Lescalleet uses the computer as a processing and=20 organizational tool. He has worked with such wide-ranging artists as=20 Francisco Lopez, Donald Miller, Achim Wollscheid, and John Hudak. Kelley and Lescalleet first met in early 1998. The following year, Lescallee= t=20 joined nmperign for the first in a series of collaborations culminating in=20 the release of a split CD =E2=80=98In Which the Silent-Partner Director Is N= o Longer=20 Able to Make His Point To The Industrial Dreamer=E2=80=99 (Intransitive). Ev= entually,=20 the duo project documented here materialized: the outcome of three years of=20 enthusiastic aesthetic discussions, performances containing near silences on= e=20 night or (literal) showers of sparks on another, countless phone calls and=20 emails, and endless listening. Forlorn Green is the end result of four=20 recording dates, two live collaborations, one recording of Kelley solo, and=20 one recording of Kelley under Lescalleet's direction, employing uncommon=20 recording equpment and unconventional techniques. Forlorn Green merges a=20 remarkable variety of neo-industrial rumbles and incisive interruptions, all= =20 flawlessly fused and integrated, creating a lo-fi concr=C3=A9te masterpiece. personnel: Greg Kelley-trumpet Jason Lescalleet-tape loops, computer more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.geocities.com/greyelkgel http://www.jasonlescalleet.com all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via direct mail order, by check or by electronic payment through=20 PayPal, details of which are also on my web site.=20 future releases from Erstwhile will include: 021: MIMEO/John Tilbury-The Hands Of Caravaggio 022: poire_z + 023: Polwechsel/Fennesz 024: Keith Rowe/Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler 025: J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me Noetinger/ErikM 026: Sachiko M/Ami Yoshida-Cosmos 027: Burkhard Stangl/Dieb 13 028: Andrea Neumann/Burkhard Beins 029: G=C3=BCnter M=C3=BCller/Otomo Yoshihide - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 17:43:40 +0100 There's also the rehearsal, recording & interview about Cobra in On the Edge that combined make an excellent introduction. > Unfortunately I've never seen any of the game pieces live - as far as others on > the list who have seen them live have stated here, seeing any of them opens a > whole new perspective, because the visual element adds quite a bit of excitement. > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: Giuseppe Ielasi/Domenico Sciajno-Right After Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:31:48 EST sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20 more than one copy of this: I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label: Giuseppe Ielasi/Domenico Sciajno-Right After (Erstwhile 020) Giuseppe Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno are both prominent members of the=20 Italian electroacoustic improv scene, not only as musicians, but as concert=20 promoters and organizers. Ielasi started playing guitar in 1988, and began exploring the art of=20 improvised music soon after. In 1998 he founded the well-respected Fringes=20 label, in order to document his own work as well as that of other artists. I= n=20 addition to his work on Fringes, he has recorded for such labels as Leo and=20 Sonoris. Earlier this year, he released a superb solo CD-R on a small Greek=20 label, Absurd. He has performed live with Taku Sugimoto, Jerome Noetinger,=20 Dean Roberts, Thomas Lehn, Michel Doneda and Brandon Labelle.=20 Sciajno began his career as an acoustic bassist and composer, studying=20 acoustic and electronic composition with Gilius Van Bergeijk and double bass= =20 in the Royal Conservatory of Den Haag in Holland. In 2000, he released a=20 sublime solo bass disc on Fringes entitled Broken Bridge. He has collaborate= d=20 with such artists as Alvin Curran and Joel Ryan, and sat in briefly with=20 MIMEO when the all-star electronic orchestra performed in Bologna this past=20 May. Ielasi and Sciajno met in 1997, while searching for similarly minded=20 musicians with which to collaborate. They began working in trio with Ruggero= =20 Radaele, later expanding to an acoustic quartet with Christian Alati, as=20 documented on their Leo Lab release. Over the last few years, Ielasi and=20 Sciajno have each moved separately towards a vocabulary of pure electronics.= =20 In July of 2001, Ielasi and Sciajno met in Palermo for a few days of=20 intensive working and recording, the results of which are documented here.=20 Right After compiles a series of perfectly crafted miniatures, featuring=20 jagged shards of melody, slowly advancing crackles rippling with latent=20 energy, and impeccably integrated techniques. The dazzling packaging was=20 entirely created by NYC designer Friederike Paetzold. personnel: Giuseppe Ielasi : electronics Domenico Sciajno : electronics and programming more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records= =20 at ErstRecs@aol.com: http://www.erstwhilerecords.com http://www.fringesrecordings.com http://www.headroom.ws all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all= =20 of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20 purchased via direct mail order, by check or by electronic payment through=20 PayPal, details of which are also on my web site.=20 future releases from Erstwhile will include: 021: MIMEO/John Tilbury-The Hands Of Caravaggio 022: poire_z + 023: Polwechsel/Fennesz 024: Keith Rowe/Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler 025: J=E9r=F4me Noetinger/ErikM 026: Sachiko M/Ami Yoshida-Cosmos 027: Burkhard Stangl/Dieb 13 028: Andrea Neumann/Burkhard Beins 029: G=FCnter M=FCller/Otomo Yoshihide - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 11:29:31 -0600 I think you have to remember that the game pieces are more successful as a live phenomenon, like theatre or dance, which is essentially what they are. I only own two recordings of Cobra, mostly because I wanted to see the instructions in the Hat Art release and then a different interpretation with the Knitting Factory release... but I don't have a burning desire to buy recordings of any of the other game pieces for many of the same reasons I don't buy many of the Cage number pieces - the aspect of these works being live improvisations and interactions between performers are almost more important than the sounds themselves. matt http://craque.net On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 09:57:56AM -0600, Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 10:31:25AM -0500, ahorton wrote: > > > Am I the only one that doesn't "get" Zorn's gamepieces? I absolutley love > > the idea behind them- but I'm really starting to feel that it's one of those > > things that "looks great on paper", but doesn't translate into the real world. > > Sure, there are exceptions- "Xu Feng" blows my mind (talk about > > post-rock!), but "Cobra", and "pool" and etc. just sound stupid to me. I > > know that's a bold, sweeping generalization, but really- when I listen to > > Cobra, etc. I hear noise- honking, screeching chaos. I understand that > > there's a plan behind all of this- hence the gamepiece itself- but it just > > sounds uncontrolled and stupid to me. > > I don't really "get" much of the game piece recordings, such as "Pool", > "Archery", etc. ("Cobra" seems a tad more coherent to me is its recordings). > I prefer, in process/game pieces, that the process be audible, or, at least, > explained in liner notes or something. Otherwise, listening to these pieces > are like the old gag about people telling jokes by number. From the reactions, > you know that something's happening, but you don't know what it is (do you, > Mr Jones?). > > -- > |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| > | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | > | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | > | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Plummer <Matthew.Plummer@Colorado.EDU> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:15:31 -0700 (MST) I agree with Matt. From my limited knowledge: The goal of a gamepiece is not to make the best free improvisation possible... the objective more involves the interaction between performers and what musical relics come out of that unusual framework. I have also heard that it is much more interesting live, almost like performance art. Matt Plummer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 19:18:12 +0000 >From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> > >Am I the only one that doesn't "get" Zorn's gamepieces? I absolutley love >the idea behind them- but I'm really starting to feel that it's one of >those >things that "looks great on paper", but doesn't translate into the real >world. >What am I missing? Quite simply, the live context. In fact, I will even go right out on the limb here and express the view (strictly subjective) that a lot of free improv works much better in a live setting. There is a lot of (visual) humour in Zorn's set pieces that doesn't translate into a fixed media. When you see him holding up the cues and the players reacting spontaneously and inventively, but all in a very light hearted way then you realise this may be serious! music but tongues are firmly lodged in cheeks. Everyone has fun, and some very interesting sounds result. I rarely listen to the Cobra discs (however I agree with you about Xu Feng, one of my favourite Zorn records) but the Cobra concert I saw a few years back with a lot of the usual suspects in tow (Anthony Coleman, David Shea, even Dave Douglas) was a most enjoyable experience, funny yet very musically engaging. So they do translate into the real world, not so much the recorded world... np: Live Trane The European Tours _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: whoah, cuong vu Date: 14 Nov 2001 11:44:30 -0800 (PST) kind of old news but I found interesting. NEW LINEUP FOR THE PAT METHENY GROUP ANNOUNCED! Pat Metheny - Guitars Lyle Mays - Piano and Keyboards Steve Rodby - Bass Richard Bona - Vocals and Percussion Cuong Vu - Trumpet and Vocals Antonio Sanchez - Drums http://www.patmethenygroup.com/press/newband.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: whoah, cuong vu Date: 14 Nov 2001 14:51:44 -0500 It's great that Cuong will get the kind of profile that playing with Metheny will bring. He's been overlooked for too long. Odd that Bona is playing percussion and not bass James Hale jason tors wrote: > kind of old news but I found interesting. > > NEW LINEUP FOR THE PAT METHENY GROUP ANNOUNCED! > > Pat Metheny - Guitars > Lyle Mays - Piano and Keyboards > Steve Rodby - Bass > Richard Bona - Vocals and Percussion > Cuong Vu - Trumpet and Vocals > Antonio Sanchez - Drums > > http://www.patmethenygroup.com/press/newband.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." <parksplace@hotmail.com> Subject: re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:09:49 -0500 Though I've never seen a game piece performed live, I do appreciate them immensely. When I first received the Parachute Years box set, I listened to a couple of pieces in bewilderment. I couldn't understand what I was hearing. One day I was looking for a CD that I hadn't listened to in awhile to accompany my walk along the canal. I grabbed Archery. Walking out in nature with it playing made the piece come alive for me. It seemed to be like nature, in that it's order is very difficult to discern but you know that it is present. This made all of the game pieces make more sense to me. I also found that "Songs from the Hermetic Theatre" made much more sense in this context. Now whenever I go walking I take something abstract. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: RE: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:16:29 -0500 That makes alot more sense- the idea of seeing these pieces done live. How exactly does it work- Zorn holds up cards, etc.? It's very interesting...I think that the idea of the "gamepiece" is just incredible- the idea that one can make a "text" for improvisation- in other words, all performances of "Xu Feng" may sound totally different, but they're all unmistakably "Xu Feng." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: hermetic theatre Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:18:32 -0500 Who has "songs from the hermetic theatre"? I haven't been able to locate any sound samples of it, but it sounds really interesting, especially the "computer music" and "electronic music" tracks. What does it sound LIKE? I've heard random comparisons to the current glitch movement in electronic music and merzbow, but nothing concrete. How is it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 14:28:19 -0600 On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 05:43:40PM +0100, Francesco Martinelli wrote: > There's also the rehearsal, recording & interview about Cobra in On the Edge > that combined make an excellent introduction. What is "On the Edge"? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Black Lions on sale (NZ) Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:21:13 EST I picked up a number of Black Lion releases (Hemphill, Ayler, Braxton, Lake, AEC) yesterday for $2.99 a piece(!) at www.broinc.com . I've ordered from them before, and they are certainly slow, but at these prices you can be patient. Also got a few albums from Prestige, RTE, and New World. Bear in mind that most of their catalog is classical, but if you really search, you'll find some good stuff. jeff caltabiano (who's not affiliated with broinc) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Kinda OT: ICP Orchestra Sunday Special, etc. Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:22:01 EST etc. = upcoming music in Atlanta. Dig in... -- =dg= ===================== > > ICP Orchestra Sunday Special, etc. > > > > > Please tune into WREK (91.1FM or www.wrek.org) from 7-9pm this Sunday evening (November 18th) for the Sunday Special featuring the music of the Instant Composers Pool Orchestra. We will be playing selections from their entire catalog including some vinyl rarities, plus their brand new release Oh, My Dog! The ICP Orchestra will be performing at 8:30pm on Friday, November 23rd at the First Existentialist Congregation in Candler Park. Full details forthcoming. A pair of tickets will be given away during the radio show. > > > > > > NOTED... > > > > Dave Gross - saxophones > > Liz Tonne vocals > > plus Ian Epps & Dan Walsh - electronics > > 9pm, Wednesday, November 14th > > Eyedrum > > 290 MLK Jr. Drive > > 404-522-0655 or www.eyedrum.org > > (jazz/improv/electronic) > > > > > > Lie & Swell > > featuring > > Alex Lambert drums > > Bill Nittler baritone sax > > Jeff Smith bass clarinet, electronics > > Mixed Recipes from the Exhibition Kitchen > > 9pm, Thursday, November 15th > > MJQ Concourse > > 736 Ponce de Leon Place > > 404-870-0575 or artattackatlanta@hotmail.com > > > > > > memprods, Low Yo Yo Stuff & Clocked! Restaurant > > present > > Eugene Chadbourne guitar, banjo, vocals, etc. > > 8:30pm, Friday, November 16th > > $6 advance (at Low Yo Yo Stuff), $7 at the door > > Flicker Theatre & Bar (Athens) > > 706-227-6199 or gkmm@earthlink.net > > (country/jazz/improv/etc) > > > > > > Pasin Flamenca > > featuring > > Carmen Deal vocals > > Ulrika Frank dance > > Mike Cady bass guitar > > Witold Tulodziecki guitar > > 8pm, Saturday, November 17th > > $17 advance, $20 at the door > > Cannon Chapel at Emory University > > 515 Kilgo Street > > 770-641-6673 or atlantaflamenco@mindspring.com > > (world) > > > > > > Magicicada > > 11:30pm, Monday, November 19th > > Nomenclature Museum > > 44 12th Street > > 404-874-6344 > > (electronic) > > > > > > Gold Sparkle Retro Trio > > featuring > > Roger Ruzow trumpet > > Andrew Burnes bass > > Andrew Barker drums > > 9pm, Wednesday, November 21st > > Eyedrum > > 290 MLK Jr. Drive > > 404-522-0655 or www.eyedrum.org > > (jazz/improv) > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:29:55 -0800 (PST) they would be a great music video, esp if shot and edited by the right camera man, could really enhance the experience of cobra and other gamepieces. There were a few cobras at tonic where I couldnt see a thing, just because you are there doesnt mean you get the full effect. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <ecstasymule@hotmail.com> Subject: game pieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 20:30:15 +0000 yeah -- it's been said here before, game pieces are by and large a live phenomenon. cobra (the one i've seen the most by far) varies dramatically, sometimes interesting components in the competitive element (players like zeena parkins and chris cochrane really get the idea of trying to wrest control from the other players), other times really great music (last month at tonic, zorn let ribot call the shots for an entire piece (7 minutes, i'd guess), and ribot built a really great piece of music. at that same performance (at tonic) jamie saft created two tuba/trombone themes (marcus rojas/jim staley) and (through zorn's prompts, of course) constructed a really fun dissonant dixie thing. there's also elements of real humor in just interpersonal reaction, seperate from the music, as the players try to push their agendas. chris cochrane putting on his headband as dramatically as possible and then flailing his arms to get zorn's attention (zorn stopped the piece and said "chris cochrane, ladies and gentlemen, to laughter from audience and bandstand) or sylvie courvessier (sorry bout spelling) getting so wrapped up in picking people to echo her that she forgot to play anything for them to echo, leading zorn to have to remind her that she was supposed to play, too. yeah, it doesn't all translate on disc. as some wise soul said earlier, that's true (to varying degrees) of all improv. in my opinion, records are souvenirs (and mind you, i have more than 2,000 souvenirs). all of that said, i recently finally picked up the parachute box and was very pleasantly surprised at how well 'pool' and 'hockey' work as music. i've never seen them performed, but they're good records. okbye _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 14:42:31 -0600 On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 11:29:31AM -0600, Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > I think you have to remember that the game pieces are more successful as a > live phenomenon, like theatre or dance, which is essentially what they are. Right. And thus the recording have a sort of "you had to be there" feel to them. I'd love to see video of the pieces (though it would be a distant second to actually seeing them live). > I only own two recordings of Cobra, mostly because I wanted to see the > instructions in the Hat Art release and then a different interpretation with > the Knitting Factory release... but I don't have a burning desire to buy > recordings of any of the other game pieces for many of the same reasons I > don't buy many of the Cage number pieces - the aspect of these works being > live improvisations and interactions between performers are almost more > important than the sounds themselves. I own, I think, most of the released recordings of the game pieces, because a) I was hoping the packaging would explain what was going on better than they have, and b) I have been known to buy way too many CDs. But I think there's a critical distincion between Cage's number pieces and Zorn's game pieces, that make the former, IMHO, a much more rewarding listen: while Zorn has said that he, indeed, didn't much care what the game results sounded like as long as the interactions worked, Cage's number pieces are mostly notated quite carefully to elicit very specific instrumental effects/sounds, whether in terms of microtonality, timbre, relative volume, or density. The one variable left up to improvisation is the placement of the sounds in time, though even that is within clearly defined windows. (The big exception to this, of course, is Four^6 (and its subset One^12), which we have performed together, and which leaves the choices of sounds *almost* entirely up to the performer (with the significant restraint that they must be steady-state sounds). Curiously, though, all the performances of this piece that I have heard except for ours seem to violate this restraint in some way,) So for the most part, the number pieces provide a well-defined sonic world, and are actually the Cage pieces that I listen to most. Unlike the Zorn works, different performances of the same piece should be pretty identifiable and consistent. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: zorn/bungle info Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:30:33 -0500 Hey guys- I guess I'm a really "technique/theory/production/" minded person...are there any webpages with info on Zorn's techniques, production notes? I just want to know STUFF about him...what he was thinking when he did this, an explanation or analysis of certain gamepieces, analysis of albums...just INFO, y'know? Same goes for Mr. Bungle- i'm really curious about their gear, production and arrangement notes...analysis of their music....general info, etc. someone hook me up? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:00:49 -0600 On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 03:16:29PM -0500, ahorton wrote: > That makes alot more sense- the idea of seeing these pieces done live. How > exactly does it work- Zorn holds up cards, etc.? It's very interesting...I > think that the idea of the "gamepiece" is just incredible- the idea that one > can make a "text" for improvisation- in other words, all performances of "Xu > Feng" may sound totally different, but they're all unmistakably "Xu Feng." At the point of overwhelming self-promotion :-) ... I have a book coming out in a few weeks consisting primarily of text scores for structured improvisation. For now, you can find the entire book, "Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems", online at http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/scorebook/pdf/ And I'm also working on putting together a North American tour in January/February to both perform solo and work with local improvisors both on these ideas and in unstructured contexts. (Anyone interested in trying this stuff out in your town, contact me offlist.) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 21:41:10 +0100 a 4hours tv series on improvisation based on derek bailey's book fm > > What is "On the Edge"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Mike Patton Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:50:19 EST For you Patton completists, there's a small article on Mike in the current CMJ (Ryan Adams is on the cover). New deal with Warner Bros..... Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:05:12 -0600 Wow. Is it available anywhere? On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 09:41:10PM +0100, Francesco Martinelli wrote: > a 4hours tv series on improvisation based on derek bailey's book > fm > > > > What is "On the Edge"? > -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Black Lions on sale Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:56:45 -0500 > I picked up a number of Black Lion releases (Hemphill, Ayler, >Braxton, Lake, AEC) yesterday for $2.99 a piece(!) at broinc.com I meant to post this info earlier and forgot. I've been ordering off and on from Berkshire for about ten years and haven't had any problems with them; they can be a tad slow but heck isn't life too fast anyway? At times they've had some good inexpensive overstocks from Hat Art (McPhee's Tenor!), New World, Ocora, ASV, Harmonia Mundi, New Albion, ECM, Nonesuch, etc. Too bad I haven't found anything like this for rock/pop albums. One thing to be careful about, though, is that some of the items may be imports that don't match your or at least my first conception. Some Charly reissues, for instance, were not the usual British Charly albums with good notes but bare-bones budget releases hardly worth even a few bucks. Also, some of the Prestige albums they've listed are similarly European budget compilations and not US Prestige releases. On the other hand, I got some dirt-cheap German Comedian Harmonist albums and a tango set that have practically no notes but some great music. LT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 22:26:19 +0100 I do not think it's officially/commercially available somewhere. > Wow. Is it available anywhere? > >> > a 4hours tv series on improvisation based on derek bailey's book > > > > > > What is "On the Edge"? Francesco Martinelli Lungarno Mediceo 10 56127 PISA ITALY http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim McLoughlin" <jim@webmind.com> Subject: RE: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 14:15:22 -0800 --- > a 4hours tv series on improvisation based on derek bailey's book > fm Wow. Is it available anywhere? --- They screened it at Tonic a couple of years ago, but I missed it. I think it was during a month that Bailey was curating/featured. If anyone has leads to a copy of it, I'd love to see it (it also focuses a bit on Latin jazz great Eddie Palmieri). Jim M - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:40:12 -0600 On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 02:42:31PM -0600, Joseph Zitt wrote: > So for the most part, the number pieces provide a well-defined sonic > world, and are actually the Cage pieces that I listen to most. Unlike > the Zorn works, different performances of the same piece should be > pretty identifiable and consistent. Yes, most certainly... though in concept and function, I believe they're more related than they are different. Of course, the real point is that recordings are always only a vestage of what's happened, a snapshot of one version. Zorn's game pieces and Cage's indeterminate scores are the extreme, but it applies equally as well to ANY recorded piece of music (with the possible exception of some (most?) electronic music - though, still, the way in which electronic music is "performed" by a DJ blurs even this boundary). m - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:42:36 -0600 On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 04:40:12PM -0600, Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 02:42:31PM -0600, Joseph Zitt wrote: > > So for the most part, the number pieces provide a well-defined sonic > > world, and are actually the Cage pieces that I listen to most. Unlike > > the Zorn works, different performances of the same piece should be > > pretty identifiable and consistent. > > Yes, most certainly... though in concept and function, I believe they're more > related than they are different. I should relate this to the discussion about recordings, not the concept and function of the pieces themselves. m - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Mike Patton Date: 14 Nov 2001 17:49:47 -0500 At 03:50 PM 11/14/01 EST, Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: >For you Patton completists, there's a small article on Mike in the current >CMJ (Ryan Adams is on the cover). New deal with Warner Bros..... I hate to ask, but the most recent issue of Computer Music Journal has nothing about Mike Patton, so could you please spell out your acronym? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Slusser <slusser@pixar.com> Subject: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:02:45 -0800 The recording of Xu Feng should be held up as an example of what Cobra is supposed to achieve as listenable music. I have performed Cobra many times under Zorn's direction, and his final words, after the rudiments have been mastered, are always that we are to try our hardest to make real music at each new cue. The rules of Xu Feng and Cobra are almost identical. The main difference is personel: 6 for Xu Feng, and around 10 for Cobra. As you can easily relate how a trio is tighter and more intimate than a quintet, so too go the game ensembles. The circus atmosphere of the Cobra performance, com- bined with keeping your mind on the rules and watching for cues, gets very distracting from the real goal - which is to make music at the drop of a hat (card, really); hitting the ground running without any previous reference points (or precious little). Zorn wants whatever grouping that gets cued to jump in with something, but listening to each other at the same time, and be adept enough to make it be "real music", whatever that is. It's a failing on the part of the musicians involved when Cobra doesn't approach the Xu Feng recording (understandable as it is). To use an old sexist term, I think Cobra separates the men from the boys, in regard to evaluating a player's improvisational skills. Frankly, the live performance of Cobra provides enough fun and visual insight to the process to be entertaining on its own. It's a real crapshoot whether it ever attains its musical goals. Fifty percent of the time is my liberal estimation, and I don't think the recorded versions of Cobra are particulary good examples, though the all-star line ups make them look interesting. Of all the gestures Zorn makes during Cobra, a common one that runs through them all is an obscene one - Zorn feigning masturbation when a player is wanking instead of working hard to play with the other musicians. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: gamepieces Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:03:32 -0800 >>>Though I've never seen a game piece performed live, I do appreciate them immensely.<<< Me, too. I find Archery a work of stunning beauty. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Mike Patton Date: 14 Nov 2001 18:40:57 EST --part1_12d.78e70f5.29245b09_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/14/01 6:17:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: > I hate to ask, but the most recent issue of Computer Music Journal has > nothing about Mike Patton, so could you please spell out your acronym? > -- > > Caleb Deupree > cdeupree@erinet.com > In all honesty, I have no idea what the acronym "CMJ" stands for, and neither the cover nor the Editorial page give any clues. But the complete title is "CMJ New Music Monthly" and can be ordered at 1-800-414-4CMJ. Nice article with the Strokes, too. Tom --part1_12d.78e70f5.29245b09_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 11/14/01 6:17:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I hate to ask, but the most recent issue of Computer Music Journal has<BR> nothing about Mike Patton, so could you please spell out your acronym? <BR> --<BR> <BR> Caleb Deupree<BR> cdeupree@erinet.com<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <BR> In all honesty, I have no idea what the acronym "CMJ" stands for, and neither the cover nor the Editorial page give any clues. But the complete title is "CMJ New Music Monthly" and can be ordered at 1-800-414-4CMJ. <BR> <BR> Nice article with the Strokes, too.<BR> <BR> Tom</FONT></HTML> --part1_12d.78e70f5.29245b09_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joeseph Simon" <proving@en.com> Subject: RE: Mike Patton Date: 14 Nov 2001 18:46:46 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C16D3C.B64AB820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cmj = college music journal Joe -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Samerivertwice@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:41 PM To: cdeupree@erinet.com; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: Mike Patton In a message dated 11/14/01 6:17:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: I hate to ask, but the most recent issue of Computer Music Journal has nothing about Mike Patton, so could you please spell out your acronym? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com In all honesty, I have no idea what the acronym "CMJ" stands for, and neither the cover nor the Editorial page give any clues. But the complete title is "CMJ New Music Monthly" and can be ordered at 1-800-414-4CMJ. Nice article with the Strokes, too. Tom ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C16D3C.B64AB820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D080384523-14112001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>cmj =3D=20 college music journal</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D080384523-14112001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D080384523-14112001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Joe</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20 owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of=20 </B>Samerivertwice@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 14, = 2001 6:41=20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> cdeupree@erinet.com;=20 zorn-list@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Mike=20 Patton<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT = size=3D2>In a=20 message dated 11/14/01 6:17:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, = cdeupree@erinet.com=20 writes:<BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE">I hate to ask, but the most recent issue of Computer = Music=20 Journal has<BR>nothing about Mike Patton, so could you please spell = out your=20 acronym? <BR>--<BR><BR>Caleb=20 Deupree<BR>cdeupree@erinet.com<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>In all = honesty, I=20 have no idea what the acronym "CMJ" stands for, and neither the cover = nor the=20 Editorial page give any clues. But the complete title is "CMJ = New Music=20 Monthly" and can be ordered at 1-800-414-4CMJ. <BR><BR>Nice = article with=20 the Strokes, too.<BR><BR>Tom</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C16D3C.B64AB820-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Re: Mike Patton Date: 14 Nov 2001 18:48:41 -0500 College Music Journal. The weekly "New Music Report" is a trade mag for college radio stations - the monthly mag is a consumer-oriented spinoff. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Shakira, "Ready for the Good Times," 'Laundry Service' (Epic) Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/14/01 6:17:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, cdeupree@erinet.com writes: > > > I hate to ask, but the most recent issue of Computer Music Journal has > nothing about Mike Patton, so could you please spell out your acronym? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Pitchfork Date: 14 Nov 2001 23:59:46 >I love and hate Pitchforkmedia.com - i love them because they have >the >balls to really rip into records, and everyone there has that >cynical >approach to everything; I hate them because it's a >straight-up indie rock >mag that occasionally has the pretentiousness >to throw in a >"sophisticated" jazz review. Jazz for these kids is a >token thing- the >only thing that allows them to get more snobby and >act more faux-higbrow >than their precious post-rock and twee-pop. Just wanted to add an "amen" here. This whole crowd tends to be pretty clueless when it comes to anything outside of their indie-centered realm, yet they are still not afraid to pass judgment and act superior for either liking something (usually some Chicago-sponsored "jazz") or dissing it (metal). And when they do rip into something, you can pretty much take that as a sign that it's actually worthwhile. Just looking through there today, they have a frontpage review of the (excellent) recent Zeni Geva album where the writer more or less classifies it as a "death metal" album, and compares the drumming stylistically to Mick Harris and Dave Lombardo. Hello??? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peruvian Night Train" <manhog@home.com> Subject: Attn: Fantomas fans (esp. in Seattle) - Apes of Wrath: 11/16/01 Date: 14 Nov 2001 17:46:46 -0800 hi there - i write to let all of you know about a Seattle-based band, Apes of Wrath, that would certainly appeal to those of you into Fantomas. They put on a great, intense live show, and fyi are playing this weekend (Fri, 11/16 - see below). Brad Mowen is the lead singer and some of you might know of him via his work with Tim Young of Zony Mash and his "Very Special Forces" - and note that the Apes of Wrath developed their style without ever hearing Fantomas; the similarities are purely coincidental! anyways, check out the links to their music found below, and note the show they are playing this Friday. It is a BARGAIN at only $6. The opening band, "Tion" might also appeal to the hardcore-friendly lot of you on this zorn-list, so listen to them as well! and lastly - did ya notice that Mike Patton and TOMAHAWK are going to be at Graceland here in Seattle in December? (saturday 12/1 to be exact - tickets anyways, give the music below a chance, it's good stuff - and you have nothing to lose but your hearing! (badda bing!) and have a good weekend! PeruviaNighTrain Productions is proud to present: APES OF WRATH (feat. Brad Mowen~Mr. Neutron~Baldo~Mike Peterson) w/ HOT ROD LUNATICS & TION FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 16th @ THE SIT AND SPIN ((seattle)) 9PM DOORS / 10PM SHOW / $6 2219 4th Ave./(206}441-9484 http://www.sitandspin.net ~ BAND LINKS ~ (SOUNDS, SIGHTS, STORIES & SMELLS!) http://www.apesofwrath.com (mp3's!) http://www.obtusemule.com (the Apes' new label!) http://www.geocities.com/hotrodlunatics (mp3's!) http://www.myplay.com/mp/playlist/now_playing.jsp?plid=495974&start=1 (above URL links directly to some streaming "Tion"!!!) From the May 10, 2001 STRANGER (Seattle): "Three possibilities come to mind upon listening to the new Apes of Wrath CD:(1)You accidentally put on a Boredoms disc and it's skipping relentlessly.(2)Someone has replaced your speaker cones with soggy paper plates.(3)You somehow became stumbling drunk in the middle of the day. Apes of Wrath create abusive cut-and-paste sound collages that leave you feeling totally worked over. And to top it off, they reference Gordon Lightfoot..." - Dan Paulus From the May 10, 2001 SEATTLE WEEKLY: "...For the Cartoon network-phobes in the house, I could make some spiffy Mr.Bungle/John Zorn comparison, but one can't really liken Off the Fuckin' Map to Off the Fuckin' Map. Apes are out to break ground and brains alike. - Andrew Bonazelli - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger <mathieu.belanger@UMontreal.CA> Subject: RE: Set Fire To Flames Date: 14 Nov 2001 23:21:58 -0500 Hello, >As far as the set fire to flames record- I just got it. I was salivating >when I read about it, but the end result is boring as fuck. Everyone >involved has put out some amazing stuff in the past- but if you think >Godspeed's stuff is often overwrought and and boring, then you'll hate >this. There are few drones, and few melodic moments- for the most part, >it's clicking, chiming, and clanging that never quite goes anywhere. Great > idea, bad execution. I would not be so severe. Is the review on pitchfork a little bit to much enthousiast ? Probably... but I think it's overall a great album. Not the best thing that came out of Montreal, but still enjoyable I think. The biggest complain I have about the record is the editing. Dave (of godspeed you black emperor! and "initiator" of Set Fire to Flames) took the result of the sessions, threw everything on a computer and edit it down to 74 minutes. It used to be written on the alien8 website (http:// www.alien8recordings.com/alien30.php3), but I think they have changed the text... Anyway, I think that some "songs" suffer from the editing. I feel like something's missing, like the idea is not totally developped. Maybe it actually was edited because he felt the rest was not good though... Tschuss, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glennlea@mediaone.net> Subject: FS announcement Date: 15 Nov 2001 00:06:24 -0500 Hi. Please forgive this intrusion -- this isn't a fly-by-posting. I've been on the list for years from work as glenn_lea@avid.com. This is me from home. I'm weeding out my collection and will be selling some LPs and CDs over the next few weeks. (To those on this list who know me, don't worry, everything's fine!) Why? I've reached the ripe old age of 50 and I realize that there are a lot of things on my shelves that have not been touched in years and aren't likely to be, ever. What kind of stuff? Lots of free jazz, some hard bop, labels like Black Saint, JMT, etc. If you think you might be interested in what I have, send me an email <glennlea@mediaone.net>. I'll send a list back when I get it together. Also, I'm putting a few "rarities" up on ebay, so please look for me there (currently, "Machine Gun", a couple of Sun Ra LPs, Don Cherry....). Hope I didn't offend anyone. Glenn Lea - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: hermetic theatre Date: 15 Nov 2001 05:08:28 +0000 >From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> > > >Who has "songs from the hermetic theatre"? I haven't been able to locate >any >sound samples of it, but it sounds really interesting, especially the >"computer music" and "electronic music" tracks. What does it sound LIKE? >I've >heard random comparisons to the current glitch movement in electronic music >and merzbow, but nothing concrete. How is it? You answered your own question: "...nothing concrete." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: A disc with torn and swallow Date: 15 Nov 2001 09:46:37 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- > There may be others, but a recent Cuneiform release by poet Robert Creeley > has his readings backed by Swallow and Torn. You can read about it at > http://cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/creeley.html. If I remember correctly, it was a larger band, not just 3 persons - a sextet or something like that. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: gamepieces Date: 15 Nov 2001 10:08:30 +0100 > they would be a great music video, esp if shot and edited by the right > camera man, could really enhance the experience of cobra and other > gamepieces. And what a DVD it could be - with the possibility of looking at any of the players.. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Karen Murphy <murphyjones@earthlink.net> Subject: ICP Orchestra fall tour Date: 15 Nov 2001 07:56:49 -0500 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3088655809_251245 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Instant Composer=B9s Pool Orchestra featuring Misha Mengelberg - piano Ab Baars - clarinet/sax Michael Moore - clarinet/sax Thomas Heberer - trumpet Wolter Wierbos - trombone Mary Oliver - violin/viola Tristan Honsinger - cello Ernst Glerum - bass Han Bennink - drums Nov 16: Minneapolis, Walker Arts Center Nov 17: Edmonton Nov 18: Vancouver, Western Front Nov 20: Ann Arbor, Kerrytown Concert House Nov 21: NYC, Tonic Nov 23: Atlanta, First Existentialist Congregation Nov 24: Montreal Nov 25: Toronto, Rough Trade Nov 26: Chicago Nov 27: Pittsburgh, Bellefield Hall Auditorium Nov 28: Boston, ICA Theatre=20 --B_3088655809_251245 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>ICP Orchestra fall tour</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Monaco"><TT><BR> Instant Composer’s Pool Orchestra<BR> featuring<BR> Misha Mengelberg - piano<BR> Ab Baars - clarinet/sax<BR> Michael Moore - clarinet/sax<BR> Thomas Heberer - trumpet<BR> Wolter Wierbos - trombone<BR> Mary Oliver - violin/viola<BR> Tristan Honsinger - cello<BR> Ernst Glerum - bass<BR> Han Bennink - drums<BR> <BR> Nov 16: Minneapolis, Walker Arts Center<BR> <BR> Nov 17: Edmonton<BR> <BR> Nov 18: Vancouver, Western Front<BR> <BR> Nov 20: Ann Arbor, Kerrytown Concert House<BR> <BR> Nov 21: NYC, Tonic<BR> <BR> Nov 23: Atlanta, First Existentialist Congregation<BR> <BR> Nov 24: Montreal<BR> <BR> Nov 25: Toronto, Rough Trade<BR> <BR> Nov 26: Chicago<BR> <BR> Nov 27: Pittsburgh, Bellefield Hall Auditorium<BR> <BR> Nov 28: Boston, ICA Theatre</TT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Geneva"> <BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML> --B_3088655809_251245-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: re. zorn/zionism Date: 16 Nov 2001 00:38:13 +0100 ---Or how about Radical Christian Culture, or Radical Protestant Culture ?!? Does it seem so relatively unacceptable or unattractive to us because we know what it leads to from being closer to it (Jerry Falwell, the K.K.K., Northern Ireland, etc.)? Remember who killed Itzak Rabin... Remember the Inquisition... Remember Sept. 11... Religious radicalism cannot pretend to be innocent. DY. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peruvian Night Train" <manhog@home.com> Subject: Re: Attn: Fantomas fans (esp. in Seattle) - Apes of Wrath: 11/16/01 Date: 15 Nov 2001 16:17:12 -0800 hi, regarding my "promo" tinged post excerpted below, sorry for not tagging it PROMO in the subject line; i've been off-list for some time and didn't notice that this was now common practice. i'll keep that in mind for future promo-motivated posts! =) granted, part of my intention was to simply chime in with a heads up about this new "fantomas"-like band (APES OF WRATH) that some of you will surely dig.......esp. given the recent mike patton talk....but still....their upcoming show was what led me here. so anyways, yadda yadda, suffice to say that i hope some of you out there get a kick out of the Apes of Wrath mp3's found at their site! (see below) in parting, i quote ICHIRO: "it is in the seeking that you find satisfaction" (Seattle - 2001) happy trails, james kirchmer > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:46:46 -0800 > From: "Peruvian Night Train" <manhog@home.com> > Subject: Attn: Fantomas fans (esp. in Seattle) - Apes of Wrath: 11/16/01 > hi there - i write to let all of you know about a Seattle-based band, Apes > of Wrath, that would certainly appeal to those of you into Fantomas. They > put on a great, intense live show, and fyi are playing this weekend (Fri, > 11/16 - in Seattle - www.sitandspin.net / www.apesofwrath.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism Date: 16 Nov 2001 16:44:07 -0800 > ---Or how about Radical Christian Culture, or Radical Protestant Culture > ?!? > > Does it seem so relatively unacceptable or unattractive to us because we > know what it leads to from being closer to it (Jerry Falwell, the > K.K.K., Northern Ireland, etc.)? > > Remember who killed Itzak Rabin... Remember the Inquisition... Remember > Sept. 11... > > Religious radicalism cannot pretend to be innocent. > > DY. > Remember Debra Murphree and then ask yourself this: Can religious radicalism even claim to be able to get you good looking women? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism Date: 15 Nov 2001 18:56:13 -0600 On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:38:13AM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > ---Or how about Radical Christian Culture, or Radical Protestant Culture > ?!? > > Does it seem so relatively unacceptable or unattractive to us because we > know what it leads to from being closer to it (Jerry Falwell, the > K.K.K., Northern Ireland, etc.)? To whom does it seem unaaceptable or unattractive? There is a lot of interesting and surprising work being done in Christian contexts. Not being Christian myself, I haven't followed it, but others might pipe in with examples. I think the problem may rather be that Christianity is, for better or worse, taken as a default state in our society, and therefore easily derided by those who opt for facile cynicism. > Remember who killed Itzak Rabin... Remember the Inquisition... Remember > Sept. 11... You appear to choose to focus on incidents of harm. Others choose to remember the good that religion can also inspire. > Religious radicalism cannot pretend to be innocent. Humans cannot pretend not to be human (those some may choose to deflect it by dismissing others by crudely grouping and marginalizing them). -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi" <noise@texas.net> Subject: RE: game pieces Date: 15 Nov 2001 20:36:33 -0600 Hi all, I'd like to say, that when this topic first was brought up I couldn't help but think, Oh God, here come the flames...seems like that's been going on on several lists I'm apart of, and I was dreading it here...but no...on the Zorn list, dedicated to Zorn's music, everyone was honest and open, and non-threatening...just talking about the Music...what a relief... :) Bill (I've been eavesdropping for a while..) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:30 PM yeah -- it's been said here before, game pieces are by and large a live phenomenon. cobra (the one i've seen the most by far) varies dramatically, sometimes interesting components in the competitive element (players like zeena parkins and chris cochrane really get the idea of trying to wrest control from the other players), other times really great music (last month at tonic, zorn let ribot call the shots for an entire piece (7 minutes, i'd guess), and ribot built a really great piece of music. at that same performance (at tonic) jamie saft created two tuba/trombone themes (marcus rojas/jim staley) and (through zorn's prompts, of course) constructed a really fun dissonant dixie thing. there's also elements of real humor in just interpersonal reaction, seperate from the music, as the players try to push their agendas. chris cochrane putting on his headband as dramatically as possible and then flailing his arms to get zorn's attention (zorn stopped the piece and said "chris cochrane, ladies and gentlemen, to laughter from audience and bandstand) or sylvie courvessier (sorry bout spelling) getting so wrapped up in picking people to echo her that she forgot to play anything for them to echo, leading zorn to have to remind her that she was supposed to play, too. yeah, it doesn't all translate on disc. as some wise soul said earlier, that's true (to varying degrees) of all improv. in my opinion, records are souvenirs (and mind you, i have more than 2,000 souvenirs). all of that said, i recently finally picked up the parachute box and was very pleasantly surprised at how well 'pool' and 'hockey' work as music. i've never seen them performed, but they're good records. okbye _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: game pieces Date: 15 Nov 2001 21:32:25 -0500 on 01.11.15 9:36 PM, Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi at noise@texas.net wrote: > I'd like to say, that when this topic first was brought up I couldn't help > but think, Oh God, here come the flames...seems like that's been going on on > several lists I'm apart of, and I was dreading it here...but no...on the > Zorn list, dedicated to Zorn's music, everyone was honest and open, and > non-threatening... Why you sonofabitch! Say that again whydontcha!! Why we oughta... RL ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: game pieces Date: 15 Nov 2001 21:35:33 -0500 on 01.11.15 9:36 PM, Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi at noise@texas.net wrote: > here come the flames... Oh... Sorry, I forgot this part: ;-) RL ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: game pieces Date: 15 Nov 2001 22:35:56 -0600 On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 08:36:33PM -0600, Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi wrote: > here come the flames... They're American flames... made in America... smoking or -- well, I guess they're all smoking. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 16 Nov 2001 03:25:32 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:38:13AM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > > Does it seem so relatively unacceptable or unattractive to us because we > > know what it leads to from being closer to it (Jerry Falwell, the > To whom does it seem unaaceptable or unattractive? Well, how about "pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way"? I just ordered the new Drumm/Wehowsky disc. Anyone heard it yet? Also, any opinions on the eight new Bernhard Gunter discs that came out in the past year or so? I was just listening to some of his old stuff last night for the first time in a while and was totally floored again, but I'm too broke to pick up more than one or two of the recent ones anytime soon. Oh, and did anyone catch the recent O'Rourke/Licht show at Tonic? The website promised "surprising covers" or something like that. I was pretty psyched to go see Derek Bailey there in a few weeks with Rod Poole until I realized that I won't be around, but now I'll probably go see Bailey with Zorn and Baron, assuming the price isn't as crazy as it can be for Zorn shows. Derek's also doing a night with Susie Ibarrra. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <papagian@nat.vu.nl> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra fall tour Date: 16 Nov 2001 09:52:59 +0100 (MET) And a final touch, back home Nov 30: Amsterdam, Bimhuis manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bernhard_G=FCnter_(was_zorn/zionism)?= Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:12:32 -0500 At 03:25 AM 11/16/01 -0500, Jesse Kudler wrote: > >Also, any >opinions on the eight new Bernhard Gunter discs that came out in the past >year or so? I'm a fairly big Bernhard fan, so I like 'em. Then, Silence is one of the most beautiful pieces he's ever done, a tribute to Feldman and Nono. which includes recognizable instrumental sounds (piano and strings) and melodies, and is G=FCnter's least electronic sounding work so far. I haven't listened to Crossing the River as much yet, but my recollection is that it's in the same vein and equally good. OTOH, Monochrome White is a reworking of an Immedia piece that is pretty minimal, much closer in sound and spirit to his earliest works like Detailis Agrandis and Neige Salie. The two discs in this set are designed to be played simultaneously, if you have access to such a setup. If you're interested in Monochrome White and see it around, you should probably pick it up; it's a limited edition and already out of print. Feel free to express an opinion on the Drumm/Wehowsky after you give it a few listens. I'm curious about this one myself. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU> Subject: radical culture Date: 16 Nov 2001 16:03:21 +0100 On vrijdag, november 16, 2001, at 12:38 , duncan youngerman wrote: > Religious radicalism cannot pretend to be innocent. Being radical means being rooted (like a radish). So, being radical should be encouraged as long as the underlying philosophy is good or acceptable. Being fanatical, on the other hand, is placing a wrong emphasis on a detail which can only lead to unbalanced and dangerous lifestyle. greetings, Rob @ risk np: cutting stone - j zorn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 16 Nov 2001 10:59:06 -0600 On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 03:25:32AM -0500, Jesse Kudler wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@metatronpress.com> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:38:13AM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > > > > Does it seem so relatively unacceptable or unattractive to us because we > > > know what it leads to from being closer to it (Jerry Falwell, the > > > To whom does it seem unaaceptable or unattractive? > > Well, how about "pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the > gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative > lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way"? OK, the problem here is that your suggestion buys into the previous assumption that the few negative examples represent all of Christianity. Again, you can choose to focus on a few negative examples, or on the large amount of good that has been done. You can look at Jerry Falwell, or you can look at the Metropolitan Community Church. You can ferret out someone who's been negative to art, or you can recognize the good stuff being done at, say, St Stephen and the Incarnation in Washington, The Cathedral of St John the Divine in NYC, or St Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco. You can complain about Torquemada or praise Mother Theresa. To say that those few examples make Christianity unacceptable is precisely like saying that, say, Charles Gayle's opinions make all of jazz and experimental music unacceptable. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: short review of shipp doc Date: 16 Nov 2001 13:03:32 -0500 http://www.chireader.com/movies/critic.html (Camper specializes in experimental film.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: radical culture Date: 16 Nov 2001 19:26:13 +0100 (CET) > Being radical means being rooted (like a radish). > So, being radical should > be encouraged as long as the underlying philosophy > is good or acceptable. > Being fanatical, on the other hand, is placing a > wrong emphasis on a > detail which can only lead to unbalanced and > dangerous lifestyle. > > greetings, > Rob @ risk > np: cutting stone - j zorn Radical=Rooted? I don't think so. IMHO, radical is just a synonim of fanatic or fundamentalist. There's no philosopy, religion or policy that comprises everyone's thinking patters and therefore, accepting those premises blindly (which is what radicals usually do), means for me narrow-mindedness and a lack of real cultural roots as I understand them. Best, EfrΘn del Valle > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: All Of The Above Date: 16 Nov 2001 10:30:47 -0800 Being a hepcat, I prefer definition #4: Main Entry: rad╖i╖cal Pronunciation: 'ra-di-k&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin radicalis, from Latin radic-, radix root -- more at ROOT 1 : of, relating to, or proceeding from a root: as a (1) : of or growing from the root of a plant <radical tubers> (2) : growing from the base of a stem, from a rootlike stem, or from a stem that does not rise above the ground <radical leaves> b : of, relating to, or constituting a linguistic root c : of or relating to a mathematical root d : designed to remove the root of a disease or all diseased tissue <radical surgery> 2 : of or relating to the origin : FUNDAMENTAL 3 a : marked by a considerable departure from the usual or traditional : EXTREME b : tending or disposed to make extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions c : of, relating to, or constituting a political group associated with views, practices, and policies of extreme change d : advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs <the radical right> 4 slang : EXCELLENT, COOL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism Date: 16 Nov 2001 19:31:05 +0000 >From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> >---Or how about Radical Christian Culture, or Radical Protestant Culture?!? We all know what happens to that, i.e. the Cathars, Koresh/Waco... np: Janacek Strinq Quartets Skampa Quartet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 16 Nov 2001 19:41:27 +0000 >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> > >OK, the problem here is that your suggestion buys into the previous >assumption that the few negative examples represent all of >Christianity. Again, you can choose to focus on a few negative >examples, or on the large amount of good that has been done. I would have to express the opinion here that historically the Christian Church has been responsible for much more suffering than good in the world, and continues to be a major source of oppression for those who are still deluded by its distorted dogma... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: ICP Orchestra fall tour Date: 16 Nov 2001 20:27:23 +0100 No other european dates planed ?:-((( > And a final touch, back home > > Nov 30: Amsterdam, Bimhuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: molasses [opinions] Date: 16 Nov 2001 12:23:23 -0800 (PST) I was wondering if any zlisters could give me a little insight into the recordings of molasses? I have some shalabi effect and I am getting into it. Is this along the same lines?? Which release is better the 1st or second one? on a related note has anyone picked up the new sam shalabi On Hashish? Thanks for any and all info. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Live Naked City at last! Date: 16 Nov 2001 15:46:34 -0500 For the two or three of you who don't get Bruce Gallanter's Downtown Music Gallery newsletters, some big news... [from the newsletter] So Zorn calls me up last week and says "Are you ready for some heavy news?!?" "Of course bubby, lay it on me" says I. So Zorn tells us that he is finally working on the long awaited Naked City Live cd (2 or 3 cd set, maybe?). I have been pestering him about it yearly since Naked City played their last four nights at the old Knit in September of '93. Zorn says he has received a bunch of great quality recordings from the entire history of the band. Naked City played quite a bit of inspired covers throughout their four year existence, few of which are available on their 5 in-print cds. Their covers included tunes by Live Skull, DNA, Beach Boys, Funkadelic, an amazing Rai song, Shirley Scott, film composers and Dizzy's "A Night in Tunisia". Naked City were by far the most exciting, intense, diverse, ultra-tight and incredible band of the nineties!!! [end newsletter excerpt] Have a nice weekend... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: radical culture Date: 16 Nov 2001 15:50:12 -0600 On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 07:26:13PM +0100, efr=E9n del valle wrote: =20 > Radical=3DRooted? I don't think so. IMHO, radical is > just a synonim of fanatic or fundamentalist. This doesn't seem to correspond to how the terms is actually used. After all, the Radical Jewish Culture series serves to question and challenge mainstream Judaism rather than fanatically buy into Jewish fundamentalism. I can hardly imagine any of the series's releases playing in the streets of Meah Shearim or the relevant parts of Borough Park. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism Date: 16 Nov 2001 15:58:45 -0600 On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 07:31:05PM +0000, thomas chatterton wrote: > >From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> > > >---Or how about Radical Christian Culture, or Radical Protestant Culture?!? > > We all know what happens to that, i.e. the Cathars, Koresh/Waco... Actually, if i were to look for a well known example of Radical Christian Culture, analagous to the Tzadik Radical Jewish Culture series, it would be the movie "Dogma". -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 16 Nov 2001 22:45:08 +0100 The problem is the word "radicalism". Throughout History all the way to today's headline news, it's meant 1 thing : intolerance. Intolerance for the different, for the moderate, for the"impure", for the mixed, for the heterogenous, for the complex. In Art it is sometimes interesting, (although even Boulez gave up his "Polyphonie X" in 1950 as musically worthless after having for a long while hoped to create the ultimate total serialism masterpiece). In religion and/or politics, however, it's only meant Totalitarianism. Unfathomable bloodletting. Unfathomable mind numbing. When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic music", one just has to pinch one's self: Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically islamic than that) punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff jail sentences. Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly better. Bach was deeply protestant, -but not radically. He mingled and worked with jews and catholics, and his approach to religion was earthy, sensual, oecumenical, a far cry from "The Scarlet Letter". Michelangelo was more humanistic pagan than catholic, a very far cry from the Inquisition. Jazz was born out of the bordellos and military parades of New Orleans. Nothing to do whatsoever with religion or any sort of radicalism. To hear it all of a sudden refered to as or used as a model for some sort of messaianic ethnic mafia is not only ignorant and cretinous beyond belief, it betrays utter deafness. D.Y. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Radical Christian Culture Date: 16 Nov 2001 14:10:17 -0800 http://www.sojo.net/ http://www.theotherside.org/core.html http://www.catholicworker.org/ http://www.afsc.org/ http://www.radixmagazine.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Naked City Date: 16 Nov 2001 23:07:55 +0100 > > what is a good naked city album to buy for a person > who like mudvayne, tool, out to lunch, and some > electronic? stupid question? > i guess i am afraid of buying something that has no > beat... any will do, doesn't have to be steady... > just not 100% ambient... > > danke, > sq thomas > > Wie gehts, No stupid question but hard to answer according to the musical references you're offering! I would definitely buy the self-titled album from Elektra (the one with the Weegee pic on the cover). I can assure you it has beat!! If after "Naked City" you want even more beat, then I'd suggest you to go directly for "Torture Garden". "Radio" is the one I like less but is has more structured songs and covers much of the ground also featured in "NC". However, don't spect so much of those start-and-stop continous changes. Dont buy "Absinthe" (100% ambient) Best, EfrΘn n.p: John Zorn "Elegy" n.r: Marguerite Duras "L'Amant de la Chine du Nord" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 16 Nov 2001 14:12:01 -0800 >>>The problem is the word "radicalism". Throughout History all the way to today's headline news, it's meant 1 thing : intolerance. Intolerance for the different, for the moderate, for the"impure", for the mixed, for the heterogeneous, for the complex.<<< How about its use in the 1960s? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 16 Nov 2001 14:19:03 -0800 On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:41:27 +0000 "thomas chatterton" wrote: > > >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> > > > > >OK, the problem here is that your suggestion buys into the previous > >assumption that the few negative examples represent all of > >Christianity. Again, you can choose to focus on a few negative > >examples, or on the large amount of good that has been done. > > I would have to express the opinion here that historically the Christian > Church has been responsible for much more suffering than good in the world, > and continues to be a major source of oppression for those who are still > deluded by its distorted dogma... Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." The last issue of NEW YORK TIMES OF BOOKS has a set of reviews on books on religion. The author raises the interesting point that these days religion is not questioned anymore and it is to be accepted as just another point of view (like, I guess, taste in colors). Fortunately some people refuse this advice. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 16 Nov 2001 16:35:32 -0600 On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 10:45:08PM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > The problem is the word "radicalism". Throughout History all the way to > today's headline news, it's meant 1 thing : intolerance. That's one meaning. There are others. > In religion and/or politics, however, it's only meant Totalitarianism. One may choose to read it as such, but that's not what it has meant. For the Radical Left it meant the opposite. And do you recall how Father Berrigan was referred to as a "radical priest"? > When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic music", one just > has to pinch one's self: > Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically islamic than that) > punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff jail sentences. > Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly better. Taliban law is one form of radical Islam. But it is no more representative of the entire possible range of Radical Islamic Music than the Neturei Karta represent Shelley Hirsch. A positive example of widely known religious Islamic music that, perhaps radically, intertwines with other music, is that of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. > Jazz was born out of the bordellos and military parades of New Orleans. > > Nothing to do whatsoever with religion or any sort of radicalism. But of course there was the important tradition of the New Orleans funeral music, the influence of Gospel, and such works as Duke Ellington's "Come Sunday". To ignore the influence of religion upon jazz is to display oneself to be unfamiliar, at best, with its history. > To hear it all of a sudden refered to as or used as a model for some > sort of messaianic ethnic mafia is not only ignorant and cretinous > beyond belief, it betrays utter deafness. Seeing things that way is a matter best left between one and one's therapist. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: radicalism Date: 16 Nov 2001 23:41:52 +0100 6O's radicalism was vital in questioning of the US military-industrial complex and autistic consummer society, but faced with time and reality it disolved into 2 paths : integration (Jerry Rubin on Wall Street , the German govt=2EGreens supporting US bombings, Dylan singing for the Pope, etc=2E), or mass murder/suicide (Charles Manson, Symbionese Liberation Army, Jones Town, Pol Pot, Luminous Path, etc=2E)=2E Times and values have changed=2E Radicalism is dubious now=2E Na=EFve, dogmatic, nihilistic, dumb=2E Things are no longer felt or expressed in black and white=2E Johnny Rotten was the last radical=2E DY=2E - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger <mathieu.belanger@UMontreal.CA> Subject: Re: molasses [opinions] Date: 16 Nov 2001 18:11:12 -0500 Hello, >I was wondering if any zlisters could give me a little insight into the >recordings of molasses? I have some shalabi effect and I am getting >into it. Is this along the same lines?? Which release is better the 1st >or second one? Molasses and Shalabi Effect are two very different things. I would say that the only thing they have in common is Sam Shalabi. Molasses' music is often described as "folk-noir"... which is not false... Although some people use "country-valium" which is also not false! Shalabi Effect is more psychedelic... Sam is mainly doing "textures" in Molasses if I can say... feedback, bowed guitar, pedals, etc. Don't expect oud or anythig like that. Molasses is also playing songs. The music is not purely based on improvisation like in Shalabi Effect. This being said, there are some open sections, although this is more evident in a live context. Oh, and a lot of people can't stand Scott's voice (the singer of the band). He's far from a diva, but I think one gets used to it. Which album to get? I personally prefer the second one (Trilogie: Toil and Peaceful Life). It's only an EP, but it's more representative of where they are now as a band. The first one (You'll Never Be Well No More) has some nice songs, but I like it less. I'd suggest visiting the Alien8 website, reading the description you'll find and download the mp3 excerpts. If you don't like these, you probably won't like Molasses. They are not *the* band of the century, but they are still a nice band I believe. I must confess enjoying more their live shows than their albums. Anyway, here are the links: http://www.alien8recordings.com/trilogie.php3 http://www.alien8recordings.com/trilogie.php3 >on a related note has anyone picked up the new sam shalabi On Hashish? It's not released yet... It will be out on Alien8 on the 20th. This being said, I have not heard it completly (let's say about 85% of it) but I think it's a nice album. The first 27 minutes are kind of "ambient" (not the best way to describe it, but if you think of it in a twisted way...), others more in the spirit of Balai Mecanique, etc. Very nice. There is an exceprt on the Alien8 website. I don't know which track it is, but it probably could give you an idea: http://www.alien8recordings.com/alien29.php3 Hope it helps, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: radicalism Date: 17 Nov 2001 15:26:29 -0800 > Johnny Rotten was the last radical. > Is that why he was only on major labels? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: radicalism Date: 17 Nov 2001 00:18:40 +0100 I had no idea, I never bought any of his records, just knew the caricatural attitude=2E DY=2E Skip Heller a =E9crit : > > Johnny Rotten was the last radical=2E > > > Is that why he was only on major labels? > > skip h > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: re. zornism Date: 17 Nov 2001 02:22:47 +0000 >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> > >Actually, if i were to look for a well known example of Radical >Christian Culture, analagous to the Tzadik Radical Jewish Culture >series, it would be the movie "Dogma". Or you might try 'Greaser's Palace', directed by Robert Downey (Sr.) np: Dutilleux Symphony No. 1 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: radicalism Date: 16 Nov 2001 21:55:19 -0600 On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:41:52PM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > 6O's radicalism was vital in questioning of the US military-industrial > complex and autistic consummer society, but faced with time and reality > it disolved into 2 paths : integration (Jerry Rubin on Wall Street , th= e > German govt.Greens supporting US bombings, Dylan singing for the Pope, > etc.), or mass murder/suicide (Charles Manson, Symbionese Liberation > Army, Jones Town, Pol Pot, Luminous Path, etc.). > Times and values have changed. > Radicalism is dubious now. > Na=EFve, dogmatic, nihilistic, dumb. > Things are no longer felt or expressed in black and white. > Johnny Rotten was the last radical. As civilizations move along, there are times of significant (radical) breakings-apart and time of coming together. (People who are not for whatever reason embittered against religion might quote Ecclesiastes here.) These alternate, shading back and forth into one another. For the moment, some (who might reveal themselves in the terms that they call others, as naive, dogmatic, nihilistic,or even dumb) see radicalism as a failure (though they sometimes reveal their shallowness of their cultural/historical awareness by pointing to people like, say, Johnny Rotten as models of radicalism rather than recognizing him as a corporate court jester who was lucky to find occasional gifted collaborators). But to view all radicalisms as having permanently failed, and to fail to recognize the way that it continues (and that most of the activity is on a small scale and hidden from view) on the basis of disappointment with a few people in the sixties is to trivialize the history and goals of humanity's struggles. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 17 Nov 2001 00:17:08 -0500 on 11/16/01 5:19 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:41:27 +0000 "thomas chatterton" wrote: >> >>> From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> >> > > Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: > > "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people > can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." I guess that capitalism and materialism would then qualify as, if not exactly religions, then religious in the same sense. > > The last issue of NEW YORK TIMES OF BOOKS has a set of reviews on books on > religion. The author raises the interesting point that these days religion > is not questioned anymore Which planet was the author referring to? > and it is to be accepted as just another point of > view (like, I guess, taste in colors). Lousy guess, I think. >Fortunately some people refuse this > advice. > Amen, brother. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 17 Nov 2001 00:21:55 -0600 On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:17:08AM -0500, Mike Chamberlain wrote: > on 11/16/01 5:19 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: > > > > > Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: > > > > "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people > > can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." > > I guess that capitalism and materialism would then qualify as, if not > exactly religions, then religious in the same sense. Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for views on politics. Or basing your taste in music on what Linus Torvalds listens to. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Radical, man, really radical Date: 17 Nov 2001 07:55:40 +0000 From the Dictionary of Critical Sociology (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rmazur/dictionary/r.html): Radical: Latin: radicalis = having roots. One whose analysis suggests that a fundamental change in social paradigm is required in order to solve problems. Most marxists/radicals believe that the root of most social problems are to be found in the political economy; those of capitalism (contradictions) cannot be solved within the system--only transferred to other parts of the system or to other countries. Feminists believe that patriarchy must be destroyed [not males but male prerogatives and female oppressions]. Black power advocates insist that racism must be sent to the dust-heap of history. Most right-wing radicals [liberals] believe that the government (the state) should abandon all attempts to regulate the economy, to solve social problems, or to provide services not available on the free market. Other Right-wing radicals believe that the liberal state should be replaced by one supporting gender, class, religious or ethnic privilege. Radical criminology. A marxist approach to the theory of crime and crime prevention. It has several assumptions: (a) that there is considerable political influence in which behavior is defined as a legal wrong, (b) that the causes of crimes are largely social-loss of community and obstacles to Species being, and (c) reduction in antisocial behavior requires social change rather than individual therapy or punishment. The U.S. has the highest crime rate in the world, the largest surplus population, the greatest wealth, and the least community. These factors are not unrelated. In the United States, radical criminology was located at the University of Berkeley until it was abolished by the university administration as politically dangerous. Radical feminism: A struggle against both capitalism and patriarchy. Central to radical feminism are the assumptions that socialist revolution does not automatically liberate women; that women should not trust men to "liberate" them "after the revolution" and that women should take responsibility for their own liberation (as, indeed, should all oppressed people). Part of the theory holds that the liberation of women liberates men in the same instant from their sexism. (From Amy Bridges and Heide Hartman). Radical Psychology: The radical movement in psychology links the best conditions for a development of the personality and release of creative energies to a change in social relations and institutions. This requires the overthrow of class and power relations through whatever means are appropriate in a given historical context. Psychopathy is more of a social issue than a personal failing or internal conflict. Therapy involves a concern with internal distortions and with relief of private anguish but within the context of supportive social relationships rather through chemotherapy or individual therapy. Radical sociology: A movement within bourgeois sociology which aims to use social science for human purpose rather than managerial purposes. The position of the radical sociologist is that the scientific theories and methods of constructing social reality at home, at work, in politics and education should be at least as decent and rational as the folk theories and methods which are displaced. The prospect is not good at this time. About 5% of American sociologists view themselves to be radical and/or marxist sociologists (1976). Radical Theatre/Cinema: The use of cinema to reflect upon social relationships in a critical mode. This contrasts with the use of cinema as a commodity. There are three structural aspects to radical theatre; 1) it creates an honest dialectic between two or more difficult choices; 2) it erases the line between actors and audience and 3) it moves people toward human agency in real life. Berthold Brecht's plays were deliberately radical in this sense. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Naked City Date: 17 Nov 2001 08:01:26 +0000 All that Masada and only now Naked City? Zorn should release a live Naked City recording every year for awhile. That would pay for a lot of other new releases. NP: Jean Dubuffet, Experiences Musicales, Mandala _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com> Subject: Re: re. zornism Date: 17 Nov 2001 01:33:20 -0800 thomas chatterton wrote: > > >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> > > > >Actually, if i were to look for a well known example of Radical > >Christian Culture, analagous to the Tzadik Radical Jewish Culture > >series, it would be the movie "Dogma". > > Or you might try 'Greaser's Palace', directed by Robert Downey (Sr.) Of course, those are *movies*, which are not really analogous to *records* at all ;-). For Radical Christian *Musical* Culture, the first reference that immediately presents itself to my (thrice-warped) mind is (post-1990) Current 93. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: Space Dust, _First to the Future_ nr: James Elkins, _What Painting Is_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: Naked City Date: 17 Nov 2001 11:21:58 +0100 (Efren giving NC recs): > Dont buy "Absinthe" (100% ambient) If, as you said, you do not want stuff without beat - it's a great album, my favourite NC. Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: physicist's views on religion, was: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 17 Nov 2001 13:53:55 +0100 > > > > > > Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: > > > > > > "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people > > > can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." > > > > I guess that capitalism and materialism would then qualify as, if not > > exactly religions, then religious in the same sense. > > Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on > religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for > views on politics. Or basing your taste in music on what Linus > Torvalds listens to. > It's not about 'thrustworthiness', I feel. A real intellectual view should be interesting from the point where it really wanders off. A linguist thinks on different lines than a physicist when talking politics, which *can* be fresh and original. Another example: psychiatrists often have completely original views when diagnosing fictional novel characters for instance. What you should never do yourself, is blindly basing your own thoughts on what some so-called authority feels. Regards, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Radical Christianity, was: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 17 Nov 2001 13:35:30 +0100 > or St Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco. You can complain about > Torquemada or praise Mother Theresa. > Let's stay critical about ALL kinds of people, also Mother Theresa. Has she ever been giving away condoms to prevent AIDS under the poor? Why do you think she hasn't? Why is secular charity so screaming unsuccesful in Africa, too? Perhaps because there are eighty (and many of them commercial) organisations fighting each other in order to help? If they solved the problem collectively, they would losing their own uplifting jobs. That is really bad. Please don't stay focused on criticising one block of people, while forgetting others. But to go back to African charity, Radical Christianity doesn't sound so good either: if radical help organisations are really radical, they might only want to help you out, but only if you sign for Jesus. But perhaps that is not so big a problem, if dying is your only other choice... 'Radical' sure is a difficult term, and one should really think where and when it is OK to be radical. Zorn makes radical records, and he points out the Jewish connection in them. Is there any harm in it? Regards, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 17 Nov 2001 15:23:26 +0100 > (Efren giving NC recs): > > Dont buy "Absinthe" (100% ambient) > > > If, as you said, you do not want stuff without beat - it's a great > album, my favourite NC. > Marcin I'm glad that it's your favorite but he wants some beat!! I like it too but I stick to what he's diggin'- I'd tell him to go and buy them all but that's not the point. Best, EfrΘn del Valle n.p: JZ "Filmworks X" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerzy Matysiakiewicz <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl> Subject: Yahowa 13 Date: 17 Nov 2001 15:46:02 +0100 I've just purchesed the copy of CD "Golden Sunrise" of the Yahowa 13. Could You give more info 'bout this outfit Jerzy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: zorn/zionism Date: 17 Nov 2001 15:48:47 +0100 Let other people judge whether Zorn's music is "radical" or not=2E It's not something for the artist to decrete, unless he wants to sound pretentious=2E (can you imagine Moderate Celtic Dance Culture, or Middle-of-the-road Hutu Photographic Culture?) As for jewishness, do we really need ethnic labeling at this point in human history? Who cares if Johann Strauss, George Gershwin, Dimitri Shostakovitch, Gy=F6rgy Ligeti, Elliott Sharp or Barbra Streisand were or are "jewish", what does it have to do with their work, and what do they have to do with each other? Are half-jewish musicians allowed in the club?Are one-fifth jews? Are non-ethnic jewish followers of the Torah? Are ethnic jewish followers of Thor? Is Ariel Sharon a member of the fan-club? What's it got to do with music? DY=2E - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 17 Nov 2001 11:05:22 -0500 on 11/17/01 1:21 AM, Joseph Zitt at jzitt@metatronpress.com wrote: > On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:17:08AM -0500, Mike Chamberlain wrote: >> on 11/16/01 5:19 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: >>> >>> "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people >>> can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." >> >> I guess that capitalism and materialism would then qualify as, if not >> exactly religions, then religious in the same sense. > > Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on > religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for > views on politics. Or basing your taste in music on what Linus > Torvalds listens to. Nah, I just think that Weinberg didn't get out too much. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Radical, man, really radical Date: 17 Nov 2001 11:58:38 -0600 On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 07:55:40AM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: > >From the Dictionary of Critical Sociology > (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rmazur/dictionary/r.html): Good stuff! The definitions all do come from a common jargon of academic/post-Marxist concepts, but they present well a debunking of the idea that all radicalism is toward the right. (There are also points there that use the term 'liberal' in the European rather than the American sense, which may lead to some confusion, but it always does.) -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: re. zornism Date: 17 Nov 2001 11:59:55 -0600 On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:33:20AM -0800, Jim Flannery wrote: > Of course, those are *movies*, which are not really analogous to *records* at > all ;-). Why not? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism: jazz's birth Date: 17 Nov 2001 13:03:43 -0500 (EST) Duncan: No quarrel with your thesis, but *please* don't repeat ther hoary old clichΘ that: "Jazz was born out of the bordellos and military parades of New Orleans." The bordellos in the quarter were segregated which meant that anyone in a white bordello would never hear jazz and none of the bordellos of any color employerd jazz bands. An occasional pianist worked there (cf Jelly Roll Morton), but I'm sure if his improvisations got too far out, he'd be out as well. Also think those parades might be more to do with funerals and festivals than the military. Ken Waxman --- duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > The problem is the word "radicalism". Throughout > History all the way to > today's headline news, it's meant 1 thing : > intolerance. > > Intolerance for the different, for the moderate, for > the"impure", for > the mixed, for the heterogenous, for the complex. > > In Art it is sometimes interesting, (although even > Boulez gave up his > "Polyphonie X" in 1950 as musically worthless after > having for a long > while hoped to create the ultimate total serialism > masterpiece). > > In religion and/or politics, however, it's only > meant Totalitarianism. > > Unfathomable bloodletting. Unfathomable mind > numbing. > > When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic > music", one just > has to pinch one's self: > Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically > islamic than that) > punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff > jail sentences. > Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly > better. > > Bach was deeply protestant, -but not radically. He > mingled and worked > with jews and catholics, and his approach to > religion was earthy, > sensual, oecumenical, a far cry from "The Scarlet > Letter". > > Michelangelo was more humanistic pagan than > catholic, a very far cry > from the Inquisition. > > Jazz was born out of the bordellos and military > parades of New Orleans. > > Nothing to do whatsoever with religion or any sort > of radicalism. > > To hear it all of a sudden refered to as or used as > a model for some > sort of messaianic ethnic mafia is not only ignorant > and cretinous > beyond belief, it betrays utter deafness. > > D.Y. > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: Radical, man, really radical Date: 17 Nov 2001 13:15:57 -0500 (EST) Bill: Just as a matter of interest is there Radical Social Anthropology? Ken Waxman --- Bill Ashline <bashline@hotmail.com> wrote: > From the Dictionary of Critical Sociology > (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rmazur/dictionary/r.html): > > > Radical: Latin: radicalis = having roots. One whose > analysis suggests that a > fundamental change in social paradigm is required in > order to solve > problems. Most marxists/radicals believe that the > root of most social > problems are to be found in the political economy; > those of capitalism > (contradictions) cannot be solved within the > system--only transferred to > other parts of the system or to other countries. > Feminists believe that > patriarchy must be destroyed [not males but male > prerogatives and female > oppressions]. Black power advocates insist that > racism must be sent to the > dust-heap of history. Most right-wing radicals > [liberals] believe that the > government (the state) should abandon all attempts > to regulate the economy, > to solve social problems, or to provide services not > available on the free > market. Other Right-wing radicals believe that the > liberal state should be > replaced by one supporting gender, class, religious > or ethnic privilege. > > Radical criminology. A marxist approach to the > theory of crime and crime > prevention. It has several assumptions: (a) that > there is considerable > political influence in which behavior is defined as > a legal wrong, (b) that > the causes of crimes are largely social-loss of > community and obstacles to > Species being, and (c) reduction in antisocial > behavior requires social > change rather than individual therapy or punishment. > The U.S. has the > highest crime rate in the world, the largest surplus > population, the > greatest wealth, and the least community. These > factors are not unrelated. > In the United States, radical criminology was > located at the University of > Berkeley until it was abolished by the university > administration as > politically dangerous. > > Radical feminism: A struggle against both capitalism > and patriarchy. Central > to radical feminism are the assumptions that > socialist revolution does not > automatically liberate women; that women should not > trust men to "liberate" > them "after the revolution" and that women should > take responsibility for > their own liberation (as, indeed, should all > oppressed people). Part of the > theory holds that the liberation of women liberates > men in the same instant > from their sexism. (From Amy Bridges and Heide > Hartman). > > Radical Psychology: The radical movement in > psychology links the best > conditions for a development of the personality and > release of creative > energies to a change in social relations and > institutions. This requires the > overthrow of class and power relations through > whatever means are > appropriate in a given historical context. > Psychopathy is more of a social > issue than a personal failing or internal conflict. > Therapy involves a > concern with internal distortions and with relief of > private anguish but > within the context of supportive social > relationships rather through > chemotherapy or individual therapy. > > Radical sociology: A movement within bourgeois > sociology which aims to use > social science for human purpose rather than > managerial purposes. The > position of the radical sociologist is that the > scientific theories and > methods of constructing social reality at home, at > work, in politics and > education should be at least as decent and rational > as the folk theories and > methods which are displaced. The prospect is not > good at this time. About 5% > of American sociologists view themselves to be > radical and/or marxist > sociologists (1976). > > Radical Theatre/Cinema: The use of cinema to reflect > upon social > relationships in a critical mode. This contrasts > with the use of cinema as a > commodity. There are three structural aspects to > radical theatre; 1) it > creates an honest dialectic between two or more > difficult choices; 2) it > erases the line between actors and audience and 3) > it moves people toward > human agency in real life. Berthold Brecht's plays > were deliberately radical > in this sense. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism Date: 17 Nov 2001 12:32:57 -0600 On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 03:48:47PM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > Let other people judge whether Zorn's music is "radical" or not. It's > not something for the artist to decrete, unless he wants to sound > pretentious. "decrete"? > (can you imagine Moderate Celtic Dance Culture Riverdance, , or Middle-of-the-road > Hutu Photographic Culture? Perhaps, if one knows any middle of the road Hutus with cameras and the resources to develop one's craft. > As for jewishness, do we really need ethnic labeling at this point in > human history? Do we really need to deny that common cultural vocabularies exist among s= ome artists in shared ethnic/religious communities and are useful in thei= r work? > Who cares if Johann Strauss, George Gershwin, Dimitri Shostakovitch, > Gy=F6rgy Ligeti, Elliott Sharp or Barbra Streisand were or are "jewish"= , > what does it have to do with their work, and what do they have to do > with each other? Often these things are important to the members of minority groups, in ways that people who are not members of such groups seem to have trouble understanding. Look at the way that many black artists, gay artists, Estonian artists, etc, group together (though not exclusively) around their common experiential and artistic vocabularies. > Are half-jewish musicians allowed in the club?Are one-fifth jews? The error is in seeing it as a "club" into which people are "allowed". The other error is in whatever calculation could lead describing someone as "one fifth Jewish". Would that be someone who had one Jewish greatgrandmother and another greatgrandmother who had two Jewish arms and one Jewish leg, but whose other leg was Methodist? > Are non-ethnic jewish followers of the Torah? What do you mean by "non-ethnic Jewish"? > Are ethnic jewish > followers of Thor? I suppose the rule of thumb would be whether someone considers himself to be Jewish. (Though there are boundary cases, like the wacky Jews for Jesus.) > Is Ariel Sharon a member of the fan-club? I don't know what music he listens to. > What's it got to do with music? Much music is a human expression and can only with difficulty be divorced from the background, influences, and vocabulary of the musician. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Choate <tbachdrums2@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: radicalism Date: 17 Nov 2001 10:21:30 -0800 (PST) the last radical a nihilist eh? that would correspond the supposed theme of modern american movie (meaning, that it takes movies 21 yrs to go where the ...____ (punk? radical?) have gone). antiglobalization protest... practical or radical? nologo.org adbusters.org nothing dies right? (and we all live happily ever..) it speaks with a different voice to a different audience. our cream filling culture (US) usurps the radical, or ...well maybe not the reactionary...(if only they really cared What Jesus Would (have) Do(ne). thats all, and thanks for the NC info.. amor fati, sq thomas --- duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > 6O's radicalism was vital in questioning of the US > military-industrial > complex and autistic consummer society, but faced > with time and reality > it disolved into 2 paths : integration (Jerry Rubin > on Wall Street , the > German govt.Greens supporting US bombings, Dylan > singing for the Pope, > etc.), or mass murder/suicide (Charles Manson, > Symbionese Liberation > Army, Jones Town, Pol Pot, Luminous Path, etc.). > Times and values have changed. > Radicalism is dubious now. > Na∩ve, dogmatic, nihilistic, dumb. > Things are no longer felt or expressed in black and > white. > Johnny Rotten was the last radical. > > DY. > > > - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism Date: 17 Nov 2001 13:22:46 -0500 (EST) Duncan: It doesn't have much to do with music except sociologically. That is the group in power always defines "others" in terms of their separateness. Below you wonder about musiscians who are one-half and/or one-fifth Jewish are members of the club. No, the ruler's club has merely be given anothger reason to exclude them from the more important club. When the last time you heard a person referred to as half-Christian or one-fifth Christian, or half-White or one-fifth White. It all depends on who is making the club rules. Ken Waxman --- duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > Let other people judge whether Zorn's music is > "radical" or not. It's > not something for the artist to decrete, unless he > wants to sound > pretentious. > (can you imagine Moderate Celtic Dance Culture, or > Middle-of-the-road > Hutu Photographic Culture?) > > As for jewishness, do we really need ethnic labeling > at this point in > human history? > Who cares if Johann Strauss, George Gershwin, > Dimitri Shostakovitch, > Gy÷rgy Ligeti, Elliott Sharp or Barbra Streisand > were or are "jewish", > what does it have to do with their work, and what do > they have to do > with each other? > > Are half-jewish musicians allowed in the club?Are > one-fifth jews? > Are non-ethnic jewish followers of the Torah? Are > ethnic jewish > followers of Thor? > Is Ariel Sharon a member of the fan-club? > What's it got to do with music? > > DY. > > > - > _______________________________________________________ Build your own website in minutes and for free at http://ca.geocities.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism Date: 18 Nov 2001 12:26:40 -0800 This whole thread reminds me of the occasion where Groucho Marx joined the Beverly Hills Country Club. He did not know it was restricted, and they didn't know he was Jewish. They found out soon enough, and called him into the office and apologized about having to revoke his membership. "My wife's not Jewish", Groucho replied, "and so my kids are only half Jewish." "So?" the club chairman asked. "Well," said Groucho, "since the kids are only half Jewish, you agree to let them stay, but they're only allowed in the pool up to their waist." skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: 7/16ths Serbo-Pashtun Date: 17 Nov 2001 21:26:20 +0100 What is admirable about Richard Wagner is his music. What is lousy about Richard Wagner is his ethno-socio-obsession. Sure, every artist grows out of specific cultural backgrounds and often needs to refer to them for him or herself. The problem arises when the music itself becomes secondary to this cultural identity. You are then dealing with politics. Narcissistic politics. Most often making neither good music nor good politics. D.Y. > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Yahowa 13 Date: 17 Nov 2001 16:06:35 EST In a message dated 11/17/01 9:48:09 AM, jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl writes: << I've just purchesed the copy of CD "Golden Sunrise" of the Yahowa 13. Could You give more info 'bout this outfit >> Yahowha 13 were an early seventies hippie collective led by a guy named Father Yod (which is where Byron Coley's Massachusetts store/label got its name from, Ecstatic Yod). they have a couple of quite inspired records, I'm Gonna Take You Home and Penetration: An Aquarian Symphony, but most of the rest isn't quite up to snuff. Sky Saxon also appears on a few of their records. the Japanese label Captain Trip released a 13 CD box compiling their complete recordings a couple of years ago, but needless to say, it's for completists only. the spirit of Yahowha 13 lives on in NYC's No Neck Blues Band, who have a new disc out on Revenant this week I'm looking forward to hearing. has anyone else heard Polwechsel 3 or Otomo's Anode yet? very curious to hear people's opinions on these... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 17 Nov 2001 17:57:40 -0500 I have seen that the new cd "Insignificance" by Jim O'Rourke is out on Drag City. If anybody on the list has heard it, let's hear a review. I am interested but have reservations. By my reckoning, this is the fourth "pop" record that O'Rourke has released on Drag City, the first three being: Bad Timing (1997) Eureka (1999) Halfway to a Threeway (1999) Each release in this series has been progressively worse (less original, more redundant). Does the new record, Insignificance continue this downward trend, or is it something different? Thanks. David K. np: Pleistozaen Mit Wasser - Cecil Taylor & Derek Bailey (FMP, 1989) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 17 Nov 2001 15:04:29 -0800 Is it my imagination or all of those titles Nicholas Roeg films? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Radical, man, really radical Date: 18 Nov 2001 00:23:12 +0000 >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> >Good stuff! The definitions all do come from a common jargon of >academic/post-Marxist concepts, but they present well a debunking of >the idea that all radicalism is toward the right. (There are also >points there that use the term 'liberal' in the European rather than >the American sense, which may lead to some confusion, but it always >does.) Yes, that's right. My reason for posting it was simply to cure the tendency to play just a bit too fast and loose with language on the Z-list. Actually I've always seen "radical" in the political sense from a rather Hegelian view of the spectrum, with radical on the left side, reactionary on the right side, and liberal, moderate, and conservative in the middle. Of course this perspective has the limit of suggesting that "radical" is always an extreme position that can never be substantiated. That's why it's good to see it's etymology in a proper way and see other uses of the word. You may have also noted the definition of "religion," which from an etymological sense, simply means community: Religion: From the Latin, ligio: I bind; religio; I bind back, I bind fast [together]. Religion thus refers to any set of beliefs and/or practices which bind a people together. As most use the word, it refers to a theistic religion [see theology] but there are billions who live in solidarity with each other and with nature absent a god concept. Buddhism, secular humanism, socialist humanism and many forms of paganism sanctify but do not deify. [See Sanctification, as well as Sacred/Profane]. In marxian terms, religion is usually alienated self-consciousness. It is a situation in which people assign to a god or to a devil their own power for creating or destroying. More generally, religion is a set of principles by which human beings bring purpose and meaning into their own individual lives while guaranteeing (a sometimes limited) solidarity between individuals. One can see from this definition that a person like bin Laden suffers from alienated self-consciousness, in assigning to god his own power of destruction. The same goes for those on the religious right in the U.S. who justify the American bombing in Afghanistan for similar religious reasons. So, getting all this back to Zorn, it would be a mistake to see the idea of "radical Jewish culture" as in some way endorsing a sectarian religious practice. What it suggests is a very deep rethinking of what it means to be Jewish from the standpoint of personal identity, Jewishness being ethnicity as much as religion. BTW, Marx, Freud, a lot of the great thinkers, were themselves Jewish. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Radical, man, really radical Date: 18 Nov 2001 00:43:57 +0000 >From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> >Just as a matter of interest is there Radical Social >Anthropology? Unfortunately, the dictionary does not list any but certainly there are, Ken. Eric Wolf comes immediately to mind ("Europe and the People without History," "Peasant Wars of the Twentieth Century") and Michael Taussig ("Mimesis and Alterity"). One could probably call Levi-Strauss' structural anthropology "radical" but obviously not in a Marxist sense. Eric Wolf is one of the better cases, fusing anthropology and history from an intellectually Marxist perspective. Then of course there's the anthro dept at the New School in NYC, the university in exile founded by left academics fleeing Nazi Germany. Most of the more well-known people, like Abu-Lughod, are retired now. Then of course, there's "radical history" with E.P Thompson and Christopher Hill being the principals there. I believe both are quite dead now. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 18 Nov 2001 01:23:23 +0000 >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> >Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) > >Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on >religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for >views on politics. Or basing your taste in music on what Linus >Torvalds listens to. Pretty crudely essentialist, pal. Fields don't have walls. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: 7/16ths Serbo-Pashtun Date: 17 Nov 2001 22:25:11 -0600 On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 09:26:20PM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > > What is admirable about Richard Wagner is his music. > > What is lousy about Richard Wagner is his ethno-socio-obsession. > > Sure, every artist grows out of specific cultural backgrounds and often needs to refer to them for him or herself. > > The problem arises when the music itself becomes secondary to this cultural identity. > > You are then dealing with politics. > > Narcissistic politics. > > Most often making neither good music nor good politics. Lousy music + politics = lousy music + politics. Good music + politics = good music + politics. I don't think anyone is saying that adding politics makes bad music good (skipping for the moment what good and bad music are). But when the music starts off as good, it can resonate in other areas, so that both the music and the subject benefits. Not that I care much for Wagner's music -- I thought the scripts to the Ring cycle were quite good, and that it was unfortunate that the leaden music got in the way of enjoying them. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 17 Nov 2001 22:49:21 -0600 On Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 01:23:23AM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: > >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> > >Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) > > > >Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on > >religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for > >views on politics. Or basing your taste in music on what Linus > >Torvalds listens to. > > Pretty crudely essentialist, pal. Fields don't have walls. Sure: but I do see a goofy tendency in people to assume that someone who excels in one field is automatically equally expert in others. "Why are we listening to this guy?" "He won a Nobel Prize in something or other!" "Oh, then he must know what he's talking about here!" Thus people get their politics from pop stars and role modeling from boxers. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 18 Nov 2001 05:24:47 +0000 >From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> >Sure: but I do see a goofy tendency in people to assume that someone who >excels in one field is automatically equally expert in others. > >"Why are we listening to this guy?" >"He won a Nobel Prize in something or other!" >"Oh, then he must know what he's talking about here!" > >Thus people get their politics from pop stars and role modeling from >boxers. It's fame's cruel joke to be certain, but it's also a problem with those who take their information at face value and don't pursue things further. I got my politics initially by listening to a lot of early punk and of course a lot of sixties stuff. If it had stopped with that, the politics would have likely disappeared from my concerns. I was just reading a statement from various Nobel Prize winners and well-known philosophers criticizing the war in Afghanistan. Seems to me like a worthy application of one's "fame." Better than just cranking out another fame-enhancing book. (This statement will no doubt play well with a certain sector of the list that likes to wear its anti-intellectualism on its sleeves.) People should use the efforts of famous people to become "alert." After becoming alert, they should wake up on their own. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu> Subject: frith question + frith news Date: 18 Nov 2001 01:58:42 -0600 (CST) someone sent me a recording of a german radio show involving fred frith working with source material provided by alexander schuhmacher. the music in the show is constantly interrupted by german commentary (or frith being interviewed, which is immediately overdubbed with german translation). the music itself strikes me as quite nice, so this recoring is annoying me to no end, what with all the interruptions. but i can't seem to find any indication that the music was ever released in any other form (judging from fredfrith.com). so, that's the question: where can i get this music? now, just in case you haven't visited fredfrith.com recently, here's the latest news posted (no date is given): - first release on Fred Records = 'Gravity & Accidental' (music for dance vol. 3). ("to appear before Christmas") - winter & winter release, 'maybe monday', with joan jeanrenaud & myles boisen ("soon") - Spool release, 'Dearness', live recording w/ anne bourne and john oswald ("soon") - Ambience Magnetiques release, studio recordins w/ jean derome & pierre tanguay ("soon") for more info, as always, pay a visit to www.fredfrith.com -whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com> Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 18 Nov 2001 00:04:14 -0800 s~Z wrote: > > Is it my imagination or all of those titles Nicholas Roeg films? Three out of four. Since _Halfway_'s an ep, it may not be considered part of the "series". Note, the quality of those films of Roeg's seems to've followed the same trajectory. God help us if the next one's titled _Castaway_. -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: L@N, _Twoinone_ nr: James Elkins, _What Painting Is_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: OT: Fusion-ish Bulgarian Wedding Music?? Date: 18 Nov 2001 03:09:53 EST It's been a Bulgarian-flavored early morning here in the house. Everyone else was asleep, so I put on the headphones and treated myself to some Ivo Papasov, followed directly afterward by Farmer's Market. After this double treat of odd-measured music played at warped speeds, I couldn't help but wonder if there were any rock-oriented bands doing the wedding music thing, but in more of a Fusion-type setting, kind of like a Finch or Brand X playing stuff in 23/8 time. Any leads or hints welcome... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 18 Nov 2001 03:35:53 EST --part1_113.7d7f4ac.2928cce9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey, i'm working on a full review to be posted on ink19.com at some point by december, but in the meantime, i'd just like to say i think it's a very good album. I don't see "Eureka" being redundant compared to "Bad Timing", and "Halfway to a Threeway" wasn't a full length anyway. "halfway" being the only album not named after a roeg film, i believe. "Insignificance" shows O'Rourke's lyric-writing skill at a high level, and his music taking a slightly more hard-edged direction. It's much less "rock" than I think was expected, and it's not a gigantic departure from the stuff on Drag City. If you're tired of misanthropic pop music that plays with idioms and expectations, than just wait for his solo release on mego or atavistic. from, matt --part1_113.7d7f4ac.2928cce9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>hey, <BR>i'm working on a full review to be posted on ink19.com at some point by december, but in the meantime, i'd just like to say i think it's a very good album. I don't see "Eureka" being redundant compared to "Bad Timing", and "Halfway to a Threeway" wasn't a full length anyway. "halfway" being the only album not named after a roeg film, i believe. "Insignificance" shows O'Rourke's lyric-writing skill at a high level, and his music taking a slightly more hard-edged direction. It's much less "rock" than I think was expected, and it's not a gigantic departure from the stuff on Drag City. If you're tired of misanthropic pop music that plays with idioms and expectations, than just wait for his solo release on mego or atavistic. <BR> <BR>from, <BR>matt</FONT></HTML> --part1_113.7d7f4ac.2928cce9_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu> Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 18 Nov 2001 03:12:28 -0600 (CST) keithmar@msn.com asks: "Is it my imagination or all of those titles Nicholas Roeg films?" 'bad timing', 'eureka', and 'insignificance' are all roeg films. they are in chronological order - 1980, 1983, 1985. the next one would be 'castaway' (1987), and the film prior to bad timing was 'the man who fell to earth'. 'halfway to a threeway' could be a reference to the film 'Performance' (1970), which roeg co-directed with Donald Cammell. apparently it features a three way sex scene involving mick jagger (and others, of course) - i've never seen it, so can't comment. maybe it's simultaneously a reference to the roeg film, and to the fact that 'eureka' (and 'halfway to a threeway') are from 1999, 2 years after 'bad timing', and 2 years prior to 'insignificance' - halfway to a trilogy of discs based in some way or another on roeg films. [also, the film 'eureka' was 3 years after the film 'bad timing', and 3 years before the film 'insignificance', for what it's worth]. so, on the basis of this pattern, i would expect that the current o'rourke cd (which i have not heard) is similar to the other two, but the next one will be distinctly different ;). -whit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) Date: 18 Nov 2001 10:58:39 -0500 http://www.czukay.de/news Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: c a n - suggestions? Date: 18 Nov 2001 08:59:16 -0800 (PST) I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly appreciated. Thanks J __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? Date: 18 Nov 2001 12:20:00 EST In a message dated 11/18/01 12:01:20 PM, jasontors@yahoo.com writes: << I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly appreciated. >> Tago Mago, Tago Mago, Tago Mago! in my opinion, the best rock record ever made. then get Soundtracks, Monster Movie, Delay 1968, Future Days and Soon Over Babaluma, in that order, if possible. the first long track on the Peel Sessions is also well worth the purchase price. while some people like Landed and/or Unlimited Edition, I'd personally recommend sticking to these, and leaving alone their post-Babaluma work. I envy anyone who hasn't heard these yet. you're in for quite a treat. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? Date: 18 Nov 2001 13:10:13 EST In a message dated 11/18/01 12:01:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jasontors@yahoo.com writes: << I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly appreciated. >> The 2xCD live _Tago Mago_ is generally heralded as one of their best. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? Date: 18 Nov 2001 13:31:33 EST In a message dated 11/18/01 1:12:35 PM, Dgasque@aol.com writes: << The 2xCD live _Tago Mago_ is generally heralded as one of their best >> um, while it was a double LP originally, Tago Mago is a single CD and not a live record. I didn't see that Karoli news until after my previous post, a real shame. his crowning musical moment is probably on Mother Sky, the 14 minute centerpiece of Soundtracks. when I was in Cologne last month, I had the pleasure of meeting Jaki Liebezeit briefly, very exciting for me. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) Date: 18 Nov 2001 13:47:21 -0500 On the subject of lost masters, Tommy Flanagan died on Friday. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Perfect Sound Forever Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:59 AM http://www.czukay.de/news Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) Date: 19 Nov 2001 10:55:39 -0800 > On the subject of lost masters, Tommy Flanagan died on Friday. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > Steve -- Could you provide more details. Damn, he was great. He really knew how to provide the glue in any rhythm section without sacrificing one iota of his own voice. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] Date: 18 Nov 2001 14:37:40 -0500 There have been no further details released regarding Flanagan yet, as far as I have seen. No Times obit as yet. The news popped up on rec.music.bluenote yesterday - and while I never take anything there on face value, several people reported having heard about it on WBGO-FM, which is always a strong indicator of veracity. Flanagan had been seriously ill on and off for about two years, so this wasn't entirely unexpected. My girlfriend interviewed him during the late summer for a piece she did on singers and instrumentalists' relations for Jazz Times's educational issue this fall. She says he was quiet and spoke with some effort, but he was lucid and full of great memories. My own great memories would have to include the time I heard him six times during a two-week stretch at the Vanguard about three years ago. Sheer bliss. The Blue Note release 'Sunset and the Mockingbird' gives a pretty fair approximation of what I heard, but really you had to be there to appreciate the many levels of subtlety in the interplay of his last trio, with Peter Washington and Lewis Nash. Listening to Tommy and Lewis mixing it up behind Peter's soloing was enough to confirm for me that Flanagan was one of the most under-rated piano legends around. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - King Crimson, "Book of Saturday," 'The Ultimate Live Rarities, Vol. 1' (My Phenix boot) -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 1:56 PM > On the subject of lost masters, Tommy Flanagan died on Friday. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > Steve -- Could you provide more details. Damn, he was great. He really knew how to provide the glue in any rhythm section without sacrificing one iota of his own voice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan Date: 18 Nov 2001 15:37:49 EST Flanagan obit: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000092233nov18.story - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] Date: 18 Nov 2001 16:47:01 -0500 on 11/18/01 2:37 PM, Steve Smith at ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: The Blue Note release 'Sunset and the Mockingbird' gives a pretty > fair approximation of what I heard, but really you had to be there to > appreciate the many levels of subtlety in the interplay of his last trio, > with Peter Washington and Lewis Nash. Listening to Tommy and Lewis mixing it > up behind Peter's soloing was enough to confirm for me that Flanagan was one > of the most under-rated piano legends around. Ditto on this. I only saw Flanagan one time, a couple of years ago. It was like a lesson in piano playing and piano trio playing. Also had the chance to interview him after the concert. A real gentleman. A sad day. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: RIP Panama Francis Date: 18 Nov 2001 17:14:00 -0500 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/17/obituaries/17FRAN.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: radical this Date: 18 Nov 2001 16:27:01 -0800 I've been scanning the radical culture emails pretty quickly lately, but that won't stop me from venturing an obvious observation that has probably been mentioned already -> "Radical Jewish Culture" always struck me as being a tongue-in-cheek marketing slogan. Martin np. Astor Piazzolla -- Lumiere - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 02:35:04 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Cc: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> > > Well, how about "pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the > > gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative > > lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way"? > > OK, the problem here is that your suggestion buys into the previous > assumption that the few negative examples represent all of > Christianity. Again, you can choose to focus on a few negative > examples, or on the large amount of good that has been done. Hi Joseph, Well, it seemed that the thought in the original e-mail was something along the lines of "Radical Christianity is offensive to whom?" I of course don't mean to impugn all of Christianity or any other religion, though I do think Falwell, Robertson, et al certainly contribute to the queasy feelings in many Americans towards Christian Fundamentalism. Not to mention abortion clinic bombers and so forth. Of course Mother Theresa etc. are the other side of that coin. I meant to speak to the interpreation of Christian doctrine more than Christianity itself. Anyway. Thanks a lot to Caleb for the Gunter CD reviews. Oh, and per Jon Abbey's mention of Polwechsel 3; is that out yet? I was pretty excited when I went to the durian page and saw it mentioned a few weeks ago, but it wasn't listed at dutch east india as of a couple of days ago, and they usually list things even before they're available. -Jesse np: "Variious" comp. (Intransitive) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 02:49:26 EST In a message dated 11/19/01 2:37:33 AM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << Oh, and per Jon Abbey's mention of Polwechsel 3; is that out yet? I was pretty excited when I went to the durian page and saw it mentioned a few weeks ago, but it wasn't listed at dutch east india as of a couple of days ago, and they usually list things even before they're available. >> Dutch East doesn't seem to have their copies yet, but I still have a few for sale, $12 each in the US plus shipping, e-mail privately if interested. I wasn't trying to spur sales with my question, though; I was curious if anyone else had an opinion, since I know promos have gone out, and I'm sure that some European distributors have it already. also, as long as I'm kind of on the topic, I distribute a lot of other labels' CDs now (For 4 Ears, Amoebic, Sonoris, Potlatch, Meniscus, Durian, Slub, Fringes, Rossbin, etc.) mostly involving musicians who also have records on Erstwhile, at better prices than you'll be able to find elsewhere. if you live in North America, and are interested in receiving my private mailing list offering these discs occasionally, send me an e-mail. thanks, sorry for the commercial interruption. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu> Subject: Polwechsel Date: 19 Nov 2001 04:24:41 -0500 Jon Abbey said: > Dutch East doesn't seem to have their copies yet, but I still have a few for > sale, $12 each in the US plus shipping, e-mail privately if interested. I Oh, I thought the implication in your other e-mail was that you hadn't heard it yet. Didn't realize it was around. Speaking of Durian, how's that Peter Brandlymayr disc (Jon, or anyone else who may have heard it)? The mp3 was pretty nice, but too short to really tell much. -Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Polwechsel Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:57:38 EST In a message dated 11/19/01 4:26:46 AM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << how's that Peter Brandlmayr disc (Jon, or anyone else who may have heard it)? The mp3 was pretty nice, but too short to really tell much. >> that one I haven't heard yet, but I do know that Peter is the brother of Radian drummer Martin, and it's a classical record. it looks like Radian will be making their NYC debut in April, by the way. they're recording their next record for Thrill Jockey in January in Chicago. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 19 Nov 2001 09:39:50 -0600 At 10:45 PM 11/16/01 +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: >The problem is the word "radicalism". Throughout History all the way to >today's headline news, it's meant 1 thing : intolerance. >Intolerance for the different, for the moderate, for the"impure", for >the mixed, for the heterogenous, for the complex. > >In Art it is sometimes interesting, (although even Boulez gave up his >"Polyphonie X" in 1950 as musically worthless after having for a long >while hoped to create the ultimate total serialism masterpiece). > >In religion and/or politics, however, it's only meant Totalitarianism. > >Unfathomable bloodletting. Unfathomable mind numbing. First of all, aren't we talking about art here? I won't even bother to refute your ridiculous assertion that totalitarianism is the only meaning of radical in regard to politics or religion. >When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic music", one just >has to pinch one's self: >Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically islamic than that) >punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff jail sentences. >Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly better. One only needs to pinch oneself if one is unaware of the various definitions of "radical" and how it is being used in this context.More than one version of radical Islam (i.e. that which departs considerably from traditional Islam) whould of course permit music. >Bach was deeply protestant, -but not radically. He mingled and worked >with jews and catholics, and his approach to religion was earthy, >sensual, oecumenical, a far cry from "The Scarlet Letter". >Michelangelo was more humanistic pagan than catholic, a very far cry >from the Inquisition. > >Jazz was born out of the bordellos and military parades of New Orleans. > >Nothing to do whatsoever with religion or any sort of radicalism. > >To hear it all of a sudden refered to as or used as a model for some >sort of messaianic ethnic mafia is not only ignorant and cretinous >beyond belief, it betrays utter deafness. Ignorant and cretinous? messaianic ethnic mafia? Maybe you should try learning what these big words mean before you use them, like "radical." Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:02:02 -0500 Jon said: > << I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege > bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly > appreciated. >> > > Tago Mago, Tago Mago, Tago Mago! in my opinion, the best rock record ever > made. > That one is definitely in my all-time top 10. Cannibalism 1 is a good sampler though I enjoy all the early records which a lot of that comp is culled from: Monster Movie, Tago, Soundtracks, Ege. Delay (some of their earliest pre-debut recordings) is also a fine record. A shame that the Can "reunion" never made it here to the States. The show that I caught with Damo Suzuki and Michael at the Cooler in '98 was a lot of fun. Damo came around and hugged everyone who was still there at the end at about 3AM. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: Tommy Flanagan Date: 19 Nov 2001 10:16:14 -0600 Just got my computer up & running after moving over the weekend. This may have been posted by now, though it wasn't in the recently arrived digest: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/19/obituaries/19FLAN.html November 19, 2001 Tommy Flanagan, Elegant Jazz Pianist, Is Dead at 71 By BEN RATLIFF ommy Flanagan, a jazz pianist who with a classic trio set a high standard for elegance in mainstream postwar jazz, died Friday night at a hospital in Manhattan. He was 71 and lived in Manhattan. The cause was an arterial aneurysm, said his wife, Diane Flanagan. Mr. Flanagan, a distinguished accompanist who came into his own as a leader late in his career, stood in the stylistic tradition of Art Tatum and Teddy Wilson. All were technical wizards who played sustained single- note lines and who integrated rhythmic and melodic ideas with both left hand and right hand. Also like those predecessors, Mr. Flanagan was a connoisseur of American-song obscurities, and he spent relatively little time in the medium of the blues. His touch at the keyboard was clear and illuminating; his art was urbane and refined. The youngest of six children, Mr. Flanagan was born in Detroit. He began studying the clarinet at age 6 and started piano lessons when he was 11. In Mr. Flanagan's youth Detroit was such an important center for jazz that it was possible to play in a nationally known band without leaving town; its Blue Bird Inn, where he was long part of the house band that played with visiting stars, was one of the most hallowed jazz clubs in the country. (One of Mr. Flanagan's own best compositions is a tribute to the club, "Beyond the Blue Bird.") In his hometown he was surrounded by a loose circle of musicians from the same generation who like him would deeply affect the jazz tradition: the brothers Elvin, Hank and Thad Jones, playing drums, piano and trumpet; the vibraphonist Milt Jackson; the pianist Barry Harris; the bassist Paul Chambers; the guitarist Kenny Burrell; and the singer Betty Carter. Mr. Flanagan moved to New York in 1956, at the tail end of Charlie Parker's reign, and learned bebop through the filter of his own strengths as a distinctly witty, fluid language. He handled its labyrinthine progressions of chords like a painter with a fine brush; he had the speed but not the rattling intensity of Bud Powell, another close colleague after Mr. Flanagan's move to New York. In 1956 during the Newport summer jazz festival Mr. Flanagan first accompanied Ella Fitzgerald, a job that would keep him occupied for a good deal of the next 20 years; he also acted as her musical director. "He really started getting me singing what I heard inside and what I wanted to get out," she said in 1983. Mr. Flanagan worked with Fitzgerald from 1962 to 1965, then again from 1968 until 1978; he also worked for Tony Bennett, and as a sideman on many important jazz records, including John Coltrane's "Giant Steps" and Sonny Rollins's "Saxophone Colossus," and others by Freddie Hubbard, Dexter Gordon, Wes Montgomery, Gene Ammons and Coleman Hawkins. In 1978 Mr. Flanagan had a heart attack and stopped working for Fitzgerald. But then he slowly began to establish himself as an individual artist of the first order, and in the early 1990's, with trio albums like "Jazz Poet" (1989) and "Let's" (1993), he was suddenly one of the most celebrated figures in jazz. The critic Gary Giddins wrote in his book "Visions of Jazz" that Mr. Flanagan had "perfected his own niche, a style beyond style, where the only appropriate comparisons are between his inspired performances and those that are merely characteristic." He created a fluid, democratic trio, rather than one featuring a pianist with accompanists. This trio - including the bassists George Mraz and Peter Washington, and the drummers Kenny Washington, Lewis Nash and most recently Albert Heath - forged a deep repertory out of bebop miniatures, the work of jazz composers like Billy Strayhorn and Thad Jones, and little-known pieces from the American songbook. His trio created arrangements lined with short improvisations, with one player's solo framed by concise phrases worked out between the other two musicians. A sense of self- restraint permeated all the band's performances, with solo breaks that were not too long and all ideas tastefully wrapped up; the melody line never disappeared under his improvisations. Mr. Flanagan's touch and rhythmic bounce connoted the spontaneity of jazz, and yet the shape of his playing gave evidence that he could see a map of the entire piece. A quiet man with a fringe of white hair, Mr. Flanagan had in recent years been working with a heart condition, but his performance schedule remained unabated. For the last several years he played two consecutive weeks at the Village Vanguard twice a year. One of his most recent recordings was "Sunset and the Mockingbird: The Birthday Concert," recorded live at the Vanguard in March 1998. He was to appear at Iridium for the weeks including Christmas and New Year's Eve. He won the distinguished Danish Jazzpar Prize in 1993. In addition to his wife, he is survived by a son, Tommy Flanagan Jr. of Redondo Beach, Calif.; two daughters, Rachel Flanagan Jackson of Lemoore, Calif., and Jennifer Flanagan of the San Diego area; and six grandchildren. Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:51:10 -0800 On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:57:40 -0500 David Keffer wrote: > > > > I have seen that the new cd "Insignificance" by Jim O'Rourke is out on Drag > City. If anybody on the list has heard it, let's hear a review. I am > interested but have reservations. By my reckoning, this is the fourth > "pop" record that O'Rourke has released on Drag City, the first three being: > Bad Timing (1997) > Eureka (1999) > Halfway to a Threeway (1999) > Each release in this series has been progressively worse (less original, > more redundant). Does the new record, Insignificance continue this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ With such a title, I would definitely be scared. If you trust what people do with products, what is written on the packaging is usually what you get inside. Maybe O'Rourke used that title to cover his ass: if you think that the record sucks, you were warned :-). Patrice. > downward trend, or is it something different? Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:59:42 -0800 On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:05:22 -0500 Mike Chamberlain wrote: > > > Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on > > religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for > > views on politics. Or basing your taste in music on what Linus > > Torvalds listens to. > > Nah, I just think that Weinberg didn't get out too much. Happy to know that you are familiar with the man's life. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Date: 19 Nov 2001 18:05:39 +0100 (CET) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > With such a title, I would definitely be scared. If > you trust what people > do with products, what is written on the packaging > is usually what you get > inside. Maybe O'Rourke used that title to cover his > ass: if you think > that the record sucks, you were warned :-). > > Patrice. > > > downward trend, or is it something different? > Thanks. Patrice, you're on the right track. Absolutely!. I heard "Insignificance" today and I was absolutely dissappointed, even more than with "Eureka". I have no great insights on the album: it just sucks. I hated the vocals, the rocky guitars, the songs themselves. If someone's looking for innovation, you won't find it here, but neither you'll find beautiful pop songs. I'm starting to wonder if O'Rourke has done any good so far! Maybe just as a collaborator. Best, EfrΘn _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Parry Gettelman <parry@macconnect.com> Subject: Panama Francis Date: 19 Nov 2001 18:05:01 GMT Thanks for the link to the obit. Panama was a charming and fascinating guy. Despite ill health in recent years, he was still quite the firebrand when any of his favorite topics came up. He was very annoyed that New Orleans was considered the birthplace of jazz, because he said when he was a tiny kid, you could hear similar music in Miami, coming from the same African-Caribbean roots, but white people never heard it because the city was much more segregated than New Orleans, so people think the jazz scene there never existed. He remembered playing the drum starting as a five-year-old w/ a brass band in funeral parades, just like they had in New Orleans, and he had very old posters from jazz groups that played all over in Florida. He said when he was young, every town in Florida had its own band (except Orlando, he loved to recount, because Orlando was nothing but a teensy cowtown, "and even Alachua had its own band"). He said New Orleans just had a better "chamber of commerce" than other cities and had been very clever about advertising its role in the development of jazz. He also talked a fair bit about racism within the African-American jazz community in the early days, and how he was always supposed to stand in the back when photographs were taken because he was so dark-skinned. I think he found this especially galling because his family had actually enjoyed some stature back home in the Caribbean. His family had owned valuable property, I think in the Bahamas, but was cheated out of it at some point. Panama had a couple Orlando buddies who had played w/ Ray Charles at one time or another and sometimes they would all get going on the topic of how so many people in Orlando had helped him when he was just a nobody, and he snubbed all of them once he got famous. Panama always got quite incensed about the fact that folks like Monk "couldn't play" and was monumentally indignant over the fact that people couldn't dance to jazz anymore. Of course, he never got to attend one of Sam Rivers' Orlando shows w/ the big band, where there was generally a lot of dancing, although I'm not sure Panama would have approved of some of those chords, in any case... I only got to hear him play a few times, but it was always a pleasure. It's a shame his health prevented him from playing more and finishing that book he was always talking about writing. He was sure full of stories. Parry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 10:36:58 -0800 On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:49:21 -0600 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > Sure: but I do see a goofy tendency in people to assume that someone who > excels in one field is automatically equally expert in others. > > "Why are we listening to this guy?" > "He won a Nobel Prize in something or other!" > "Oh, then he must know what he's talking about here!" > > Thus people get their politics from pop stars and role modeling from > boxers. There is a slight difference since Weinberg has been writing about these issues for a while. And (to counter an attack) with enough wit to be invited in many universities to express his ideas on these topics. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 10:28:16 -0800 On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 05:24:47 +0000 "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > It's fame's cruel joke to be certain, but it's also a problem with those who > take their information at face value and don't pursue things further. I got > my politics initially by listening to a lot of early punk and of course a > lot of sixties stuff. If it had stopped with that, the politics would have > likely disappeared from my concerns. I was just reading a statement from > various Nobel Prize winners and well-known philosophers criticizing the war > in Afghanistan. Seems to me like a worthy application of one's "fame." > Better than just cranking out another fame-enhancing book. (This statement > will no doubt play well with a certain sector of the list that likes to wear > its anti-intellectualism on its sleeves.) People should use the efforts of > famous people to become "alert." After becoming alert, they should wake up > on their own. Being alert and being infatuated with some fashionable theories are two different things. Free to you to assume that being on top of the flavor of the month intellectual theory makes you an alert person (and put the others in the sleepy category). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 10:19:43 -0800 On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:21:55 -0600 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:17:08AM -0500, Mike Chamberlain wrote: > > on 11/16/01 5:19 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: > > > > > > "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people > > > can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." > > > > I guess that capitalism and materialism would then qualify as, if not > > exactly religions, then religious in the same sense. > > Which also goes to show that looking to a physicist for views on > religion is about as trustworthy as, say, looking to a linguist for Interesting way of looking at things... You would have judged the opinion of an average joe on theoretical physics as not trustworthy, I would have understood. But is not religion something that all of us (often against our will) are all drowned in it (specially sickening in the US...)? Since our lives depend a lot on what religion (in a way not so different than with politics), shouldn't we all have something relevant to say about it? By following your logic to the extreme (people outside a field being not qualified to say anything worht), you end up with obscurantism, where regardless of what bullshit you are saying, only the members of your church (in the general sense) have something relevant to say. This reminds me of Chomski saying that he never had any problem to discuss with scientific audiences, and only when addressing human science ones, he was questioned for not having the correct (academic) background. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:42:55 -0800 On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 05:24:47 +0000 "Bill Ashline" wrote: > > It's fame's cruel joke to be certain, but it's also a problem with those who > take their information at face value and don't pursue things further. I got > my politics initially by listening to a lot of early punk and of course a > lot of sixties stuff. If it had stopped with that, the politics would have > likely disappeared from my concerns. I was just reading a statement from > various Nobel Prize winners and well-known philosophers criticizing the war > in Afghanistan. Seems to me like a worthy application of one's "fame." > Better than just cranking out another fame-enhancing book. (This statement > will no doubt play well with a certain sector of the list that likes to wear > its anti-intellectualism on its sleeves.) People should use the efforts of If by "anti-intellectualism" you mean the class of people who don't automatically identify obscurity and byzantine arguments with deepness, I guess you hit it right. Although sometimes I can't prevent myself from reading your "anti-intellectualism" as "anti-my-intellectualism". Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 12:10:41 -0800 On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:17:28 "Mike Chamberlain" wrote: > > I don't know shit about his life. It does appear from his statement, > however, that he didn't know much about human nature. Let's say, more modestly, that his opinion is not yours, and that this does not prevent him (and the people who agree with him) to have a life. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Beardsley" <db@biink.com> Subject: Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:27:12 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > There have been no further details released regarding Flanagan yet, as far > as I have seen. No Times obit as yet. The news popped up on http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/19/obituaries/19FLAN.html * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Panama Francis Date: 20 Nov 2001 12:59:37 -0800 It's nice to see someone discuss Panama at length. He was on more great records than you can count, was a major figure in quality rhythm'n'blues, and definitely deserves the props. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 13:02:05 -0800 Mike, On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:31:00 "Mike Chamberlain" wrote: > > The single opinion of Weinberg's that you quoted is about what I would > expect to hear from a clever second-year university student after a couple > too many beers. If he has been invited to speak at universities on the > subject, then presumably he has more interesting and useful things to say on > the subject of human nature and the place of religion in people's lives. If > you are willing to enligten me on this rather than engage in some kind of > who-can-be-more-sarcastic back and forth, I would be most grateful. I strongly advised you not to read him (specially if you think that my comments are sarcastic :-). He is rational to a point that even in your worst nightmare you have never approached one. His views on religion (any flavor and not just the one practiced by the person you disagree with) are fairly bleak. His view of the meaning of the universe is even bleaker, at least from the perspective of finding a meaning to it with a special place for humanity. But it you feel masochist, you might enjoy it (I warn you, it is 100% Zen free). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 19 Nov 2001 22:25:40 +0100 > > > >When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic music", one just > >has to pinch one's self: > >Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically islamic than that) > >punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff jail sentences. > >Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly better. > > One only needs to pinch oneself if one is unaware of the various > definitions of "radical" and how it is being used in this context.More than > one version of radical Islam (i.e. that which departs considerably from > traditional Islam) whould of course permit music. 1) Radical comes from the latin for root, radix. Radical Islam aims at returning to what it imagines as the original Islam of Mohamet, not "depart considerably from it". Anyone diverging from it is an infidel, or outlaw. 2) Music and other artistic expressions such as painting, theater, dance, and film are banned or strongly discouraged by all existing radical Islamic societies. 3) It's important to know what context words and expressions are used in. The label"Radical Jewish" in 2001 is misleading to say the least- that's all I'm saying (give peace a chance). DY. > > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 19 Nov 2001 16:15:31 -0600 At 10:25 PM 11/19/01 +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: >> >> >> >When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic music", one just >> >has to pinch one's self: >> >Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically islamic than that) >> >punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff jail sentences. >> >Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly better. >> >> One only needs to pinch oneself if one is unaware of the various >> definitions of "radical" and how it is being used in this context.More than >> one version of radical Islam (i.e. that which departs considerably from >> traditional Islam) whould of course permit music. > >1) Radical comes from the latin for root, radix. Radical Islam aims at >returning to what it imagines as the original Islam of Mohamet, not "depart >considerably from it". Anyone diverging from it is an infidel, or outlaw. >2) Music and other artistic expressions such as painting, theater, dance, and >film are banned or strongly discouraged by all existing radical Islamic >societies. Yes, Radical (rightist, for lack of a better term) Islam is as you describe it. However, I was referring to a Radical (leftist) Islam that would depart considerably from the norm of Islam (which is after all one of the definitions of the word radical) IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Perhaps Turkey in the 70s, especially in films, was an Islamic culture that was pretty far left of what was and is the norm. That type of radical. >3) It's important to know what context words and expressions are used in. The >label"Radical Jewish" in 2001 is misleading to say the least- that's all I'm >saying (give peace a chance). That was my point exactly, you seemed not to understand the context that Radical Jewish Culture is being used in here and I was obiously suggesting I'd be interested in hearing similar approaches to Islamic music, which do exist. I suppose calling something radical anything can be misleading if you don't want to bother to think about it. When an auto manufacturer talks about a radical new approach to fuel injection, obviously they are talking about doing something differently than normal, not getting back to the roots of fuel injection. There is more than one radical. Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 19 Nov 2001 17:33:42 -0600 On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:19:43AM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > You would have judged the opinion of an average joe on theoretical physics > as not trustworthy, I would have understood. > > But is not religion something that all of us (often against our will) > are all drowned in it (specially sickening in the US...)? Since our lives > depend a lot on what religion (in a way not so different than with > politics), shouldn't we all have something relevant to say about it? We're all surrounded by physics too. > By following your logic to the extreme (people outside a field being not > qualified to say anything worht), you end up with obscurantism, where > regardless of what bullshit you are saying, only the members of your church > (in the general sense) have something relevant to say. Um, wrong. > This reminds me of Chomski saying that he never had any problem to discuss > with scientific audiences, and only when addressing human science ones, he > was questioned for not having the correct (academic) background. Sure: the scientific audiences could judge for themselves whether what he was saying was true. Those without the background chose to depend on other supposed experts for validation. This reminds me of a story I heard a while back: a historian that I know attended a conference on the theories of a famous historian (I've forgotten whom).. He noticed that while the theories were full of holes when referring to his area of specialty, they seemed valid in areas about which he knew less. Thing is, in talking to others there, they all realized that while the theories were bogus in their areas, each thought they described other areas well. It was only when they all got together that they realized than he was completely blowing smoke in all areas, in ways that convinced those who were unfamiliar with each area but nodded in the face of his supposed authority. If you fall for such stuff, you'll believe in telephone psychics because Dionne Warwick said that they were real. Which reminds of a gag I heard when I was a kid: The time came for the unveiling of the tomb of Israel's Unknown Soldier. After a great ceremony, a shroud was lifted from the gravestone, where they saw "Chaim Lifschutz 1930-1956". One guy, surprised, said. "I thought he was the *unknown* soldier." Another replied, "As a tailor he was known; as a soldier he was nothing much." -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 19 Nov 2001 18:09:40 -0600 On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:25:40PM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > 1) Radical comes from the latin for root, radix. Radical Islam aims at > returning to what it imagines as the original Islam of Mohamet, not "depart > considerably from it". Anyone diverging from it is an infidel, or outlaw. One can see from this that Duncan is an idiot. This has nothing to do with intelligence or value judgement. "Idiot" comes from the Greek "idios", meaning "own, private", hence one who has opinions other than the norm. As Humpty Dumpty said, "That's glory for you." http://www.coli.uni-sb.de/~stwa/alice.htm > 2) Music and other artistic expressions such as painting, theater, dance, and > film are banned or strongly discouraged by all existing radical Islamic > societies. Only by your odd personal definition of "radical". > 3) It's important to know what context words and expressions are used in. The > label"Radical Jewish" in 2001 is misleading to say the least- that's all I'm > saying (give peace a chance). Does it mislead anyone other than, perhaps, you? That's all I'm saying (goo goo ga joob). -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: ECM Booklets w/o disks Date: 20 Nov 2001 01:09:51 +0100 Hello there, A strange mailing from me, this time. A friend of mine used to work for the advertising department of ECM, and I got a bunch of cd booklets from him without disks (that hurts, especially when seeing the Marion Brown 1970 re-issue withut being able to play it!). If one of you guys happen to have promotional disks from ECM, and they came without any booklets: I might be able to help you out. This is what I have, ECM order number first, then number printed on actual disk: Back leaflets only: 1119 (531-029) 1187 (847-329) 1208 (531-025) 1260 (815-274) 1378 (847-888) 1413 (843-196) Complete front and back leaflets: Watt12 1/2 (823-865) Xtrawatt/8 (531-557) 1004 (527-710) 1105 (847-323) 1109 (529-087) 1143 (529-126) 1156 (529-124) 1158 (849-078) 1573 (529-035) Bye, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 20 Nov 2001 01:36:25 +0100 --------------9B1743DEC418E00745A47CC5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > Yes, Radical (rightist, for lack of a better term) Islam is as you describe > it. However, I was referring to a Radical (leftist) Islam that would depart > considerably from the norm of Islam (which is after all one of the > definitions of the word radical) IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Perhaps Turkey > in the 70s, especially in films, was an Islamic culture that was pretty far > left of what was and is the norm. That type of radical. > > > > you seemed not to understand the context that > Radical Jewish Culture is being used in here and I was obiously suggesting > I'd be interested in hearing similar approaches to Islamic music, which do > exist. Please let me know about them! I think that what you consider radical is, in those particular contexts (islamic, jewish) : secular. There's an inherent contradiction in a person believing God created the world in 7 days about 6000 years ago being Avant-Garde. Religion is by essence conservative. It is not about investigation and questioning, it is about Revelation (to about one person) and obedience (by the rest). Islam means submission in arabic. The Isreali settlers and the guy who shot Itzak Rabin are, without a doubt, radical Jewish. Bertold Brecht and Morton Feldman were secular. The Berrigan brothers, militant priests against the Vietnam war, were radical humanists. They were radical+ catholic, not radical catholics: they did not proselithize cathechism. They fought for the rights of atheists and buddhists. The very idea of radicality as you mean it: -socially conscious, change-oriented, ultra-new-, is entirely western and secular. The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Ra∩, Algeria's answer to rock'n roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish. D.Y. > > > > - --------------9B1743DEC418E00745A47CC5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <p>Yes, Radical (rightist, for lack of a better term) Islam is as you describe <br>it. However, I was referring to a Radical (leftist) Islam that would depart <br>considerably from the norm of Islam (which is after all one of the <br>definitions of the word radical) IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Perhaps Turkey <br>in the 70s, especially in films, was an Islamic culture that was pretty far <br>left of what was and is the norm. That type of radical. <p> ; you seemed not to understand the context that <br>Radical Jewish Culture is being used in here and I was obiously suggesting <br>I'd be interested in hearing similar approaches to Islamic music, which do <br>exist.</blockquote> Please let me know about them! <br>I think that what you consider radical is, in those particular contexts (islamic, jewish) : <u>secular</u>. <br>There's an inherent contradiction in a person believing God created the world in 7 days about 6000 years ago being Avant-Garde. <br>Religion is by essence conservative. It is not about investigation and questioning, it is about Revelation (to about one person) and obedience (by the rest). <br>Islam means submission in arabic. <br>The Isreali settlers and the guy who shot Itzak Rabin are, without a doubt, radical Jewish. <br>Bertold Brecht and Morton Feldman were secular. <br>The Berrigan brothers, militant priests against the Vietnam war, were radical humanists. They were radical+ catholic, not radical catholics: they did not proselithize cathechism. They fought for the rights of atheists and buddhists. <br>The very idea of radicality as you mean it: -socially conscious, change-oriented, ultra-new-, is entirely western and secular. <br>The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Raï, Algeria's answer to rock'n roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish. <p>D.Y. <br> <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <br> <p>-</blockquote> </html> --------------9B1743DEC418E00745A47CC5-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) Date: 19 Nov 2001 19:37:27 -0600 On Tue, Nov 20, 2001 at 01:36:25AM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > I think that what you consider radical is, in those particular contexts= (islamic, > jewish) : secular. Secularized Judaism can be one instance of radical Judaism. So can the extreme Orthodox. Neither makes the other non-radical. What each has in common is *re-examining* the "radix (root)" of Judaism and developing their views from that reexaminsation. And different people will believe different aspects to be the "root" and base their rebuildings on each. I am closest to a branch of Judaism that some consider "radical": Reconstructionist Judaism. As founded by Mardecai Kaplan in the mid-20th century, it took a look at what were core beliefs and rebuilt from there following Kaplan's idea that "the pasthas a vote, not a veto". > There's an inherent contradiction in a person believing God created the= world in > 7 days about 6000 years ago being Avant-Garde. In what sense? FWIW, as I was taught, the concept of "days" is a metaphor (after all, what does "it was evening then it was moring" mean when planets hadn't yet come into being?). Viewed as seven *phases* of creation, taking into account the ambiguities in the original Hebrew, it actually maps pretty well into current scientific views. > Religion is by essence conservative. It is not about investigation and > questioning, it is about Revelation (to about one person) and obedience= (by the > rest). *Some* religion fits your narrow criteria. But investigation and questioning is *essential* to Judaism, as any examination of its historical texts can easily show you. > The Isreali settlers and the guy who shot Itzak Rabin are, without a do= ubt, > radical Jewish. Yes, under one branch of "radical". > Bertold Brecht and Morton Feldman were secular. Yes, and? > The Berrigan brothers, militant priests against the Vietnam war, were r= adical > humanists. They were radical+ catholic, not radical catholics: they did= not > proselithize cathechism. They fought for the rights of atheists and bud= dhists. Yes, and? > The very idea of radicality as you mean it: -socially conscious, change= -oriented, > ultra-new-, is entirely western and secular. Why do you say this? Is the Dalai Lama western and secular? > The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Ra=EF, Algeria's answer t= o rock'n > roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish. Have you heard Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's reworkings of traditional Qawalli music with Michael Brook and with Bally Sagoo? That is indisputably radical Islamic music, under any definition. --=20 |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Radish List Date: 19 Nov 2001 17:31:20 -0800 Although when the topic turns away from music a certain lameness arises [e.g., posts like this one], this list is still rad. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Four recommendations: Date: 19 Nov 2001 21:00:21 EST 1) Stefan Winter -- The Little Trumpet. One of the JMT reissues, this one features Tim Berne, Herb Robertson, Anthony Cox, Reggie Nicholson, Bill frisell, Robin Eubanks, Warren Smith and Bob Stewart. And, as the cover boasts, the Original Booklet [is] Included! 2) Sex Mob Does Bond -- As in James Bond movie themes a la Sex Mob. 3) The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle. Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, and Matthew Shipp. Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes and sparse melodies. 4) Erik Friedlander -- Grains of Paradise. Friedlander, Trevor Dunn, Satoshi Takeishi, Bryce Dessner, Joyce Hammann, Karen Milne, Peter Rovit. Sounds straight outta "Circle Maker." (I hesitate mentioning this since it might drag out the "radical" etymology/semantic discussion, but this one's part of Tzadik's "Radical Jewish Culture" series. Whatever "radical" means, this one's a keeper.) Cheers, Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: Four recommendations: Date: 19 Nov 2001 21:05:38 -0500 on 01.11.19 9:00 PM, Samerivertwice@aol.com at Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > 3) The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle. Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, and > Matthew Shipp. Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes and > sparse melodies. I'll second and third this one. Dickey's trio disc on AUMFi is also great. w/ Brown and Lightcap. A real burner. These guys are all over each other. Yup, RL ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Coalition for Creative Music <Matthew.Plummer@Colorado.EDU> Subject: Harriet Tubman 11/27 (Boulder) Date: 19 Nov 2001 19:14:49 -0700 (MST) The Coalition for Creative Music presents.... HARRIET TUBMAN ENSEMBLE Brandon Ross, guitar Melvin Gibbs, bass J.T. Lewis, drums Tuesday, Nov. 27, 8:00 PM Old Main Theater CU-Boulder Admission is $5, CU students are free w/ID Often compared to Bill Frisell's Power Tools trio, Harriet Tubman creates music that is uniquely grand. At times forging a fusion of rock-hard drumming, rumbling bass and soaring guitar melt, the band also has a more introspective side that results in smooth, tranquil grooves. The members have collaborated with Cassandra Wilson, Archie Shepp, Bill Frisell, Oliver Lake, and Henry Threadgill, to name a few. Directions to Old Main: Take US 36 to Baseline Rd. Turn W onto Baseline. Immediately turn N onto Broadway. Turn E onto University Ave. Park. Proceed S on foot up hill, Old Main is a red brick building directly across from the front of Macky Auditorium. call 303.543.2116 for more information. The Coalition Hotline. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Four recommendations: Date: 19 Nov 2001 22:27:12 EST --part1_b8.1e9e1379.292b2790_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/19/01 9:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, bb10k@velocity.net writes: > > 3) The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle. Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, > and > > Matthew Shipp. Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes > and > > sparse melodies. > That should have read "dense noisy flourishes." Little hands of concrete, Tom --part1_b8.1e9e1379.292b2790_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 11/19/01 9:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, bb10k@velocity.net writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> 3) The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle. Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, and<BR> > Matthew Shipp. Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes and<BR> > sparse melodies.<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <BR> That should have read "dense noisy flourishes." <BR> <BR> Little hands of concrete,<BR> Tom</FONT></HTML> --part1_b8.1e9e1379.292b2790_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: Four recommendations: Date: 19 Nov 2001 22:39:33 -0500 on 01.11.19 10:27 PM, Samerivertwice@aol.com at Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/19/01 9:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, > bb10k@velocity.net writes: > > >>> 3) The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle. Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, >> and >>> Matthew Shipp. Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes >> and >>> sparse melodies. >> > > > That should have read "dense noisy flourishes." > > Little hands of concrete, > Tom I just assumed it was dense "nosey" flourishes... Rrrr ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: New music in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November 20, Date: 19 Nov 2001 22:43:19 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>, you'll hear long works by Phillip Arnautoff, Marilyn Crispell, David First, Larry Polansky, Salvatore Sciarrino, and John Stevens. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring electro-acoustic music by composers from the West Coast of North America, including Martin Bartlett, John Bischoff, Chris Brown, Paul De Marinis, Paul Dolden, Jim Horton, Peter Hannan, David Mahler, Maggi Payne, and Carl Stone) is still available in the Mappings archive <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Rat Race of Radicalisms Date: 20 Nov 2001 10:59:17 +0100 > > > > The very idea of radicality as you mean it: -socially conscious, change-= oriented, > > ultra-new-, is entirely western and secular=2E > > Why do you say this? Is the Dalai Lama western and secular? Traditional Tibetan Buddhism was/is extremely hierarchical and rigid, as rem= oved from democratic or equalitarian ideals as possible=2E The Dala=EF Lama himself re= cognizes this, even attributing the occupation of Tibet by China to this cultural stagnatio= n=2E His own sermons, shaped by his western culture and adressed mostly to wester= ners, come in great part out of secular humanist western culture of the past 250 years = (human rights for all women and men, etc=2E) and would have been unthinkable by his predecessors=2E Social consciousness, the idea of "progress" and the worship of "change"are = western inventions, which for the past century or so of course have been spreading e= verywhere (often misunderstood and/or the cause for massive havoc, see Lenin, Mao, Pol= Pot, etc=2E)=2E Gandhi studied and practiced western law and read and admired Thoreau (his "= Civil Desobedience"-pure western"radicalism"as removed from hindu/eastern thinking= as possible-)=2E Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, be= cause it is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention o= f the idea of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older re= ligions=2E But in as much as it clings to the Book and the Prophets, this radicalism wi= ll seem very traditional in the rat race of radicalisms which has sprung up since=2E But look, everybody's tired of this debate, have your *%$!*? Jewish Radicali= sm, and eat it too! Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (inclu= ding that outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "f= anatic", and not "leftist")=2E=2E=2E Shalom, D=2EY=2E PS=2E can you recommend some Jewish Radical music? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> Subject: Re: Rat Race of Radicalisms Date: 20 Nov 2001 09:14:47 -0600 On Tue, Nov 20, 2001 at 10:59:17AM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: > Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, because it > is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention of the idea > of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older religions. Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has little to do with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the Messiah are also the most conservative. > Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (including that > outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "fanatic", > and not "leftist")... Well, no. > PS. can you recommend some Jewish Radical music? I understand that John Zorn has done some good stuff. You might be able to find a mailing list about him. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Four recommendations: Date: 20 Nov 2001 10:16:00 -0800 (PST) Sex Mob Does Bond still hasnt grabbed me. I got it listened once, put it away, listened again and decided its far from the sex mob I know and love. I am not a huge fan of concept albums, not to mention a bond related one. It sounds very anthem-like and is somewhat reductive and not what I expected from the mob. With their second release I was left wanting more, thinking it would just take time to sink in, I listened and listened and it just didnt hit me with the same force that the first release did. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (Insallah!!) Date: 20 Nov 2001 18:26:36 +0000 >From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> >The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Ra∩, Algeria's answer to >rock'n >roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish. But radikal (and specifically rooted to its mileu) enough in the context of Algerian kultur to have led to the murders of some of its main proponents. And where does Sufism fit in to radical(sic) Islamic kultur? A heretical sect that uses mystical poetry and music in its religious practices, often in defiance of ruling Moslem traditionalists who try to ban such practices. Are there Sufis in Afghanistan who secretly defied the Taliban? I think so, just like the Jews secretly defied the Inquisition in 14th and 15th century Spain. Once again, I might remind anyone interested in radikal Moslem musick of groups like Ahlam and Aisha Kandisha's Jarring Effects on the Barbarity label. Also Rachid Taha from Algeria has released some interesting recordings, he originally led a punk group called Carte de Sejour that was openly critical of Algerian and European mores... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: Rat Pack of Radicalisms Date: 20 Nov 2001 20:12:11 +0100 --------------FCF07E42F2885D9C9716776D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, because it > > is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention of the idea > > of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older religions. > > Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has little to do > with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the Messiah > are also the most conservative. What was groundbreaking 2500 years ago can become reactionary dogma in the light of all that it has generated. > > > > Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (including that > > outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "fanatic", > > and not "leftist")... > > Well, no. Let me just speak for french and german, in which both me and my wife are fluent natives. > DY. > > - --------------FCF07E42F2885D9C9716776D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <i></i> <p><i>> Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, because it</i> <br><i>> is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention of the idea</i> <br><i>> of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older religions.</i><i></i> <p><i>Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has little to do</i> <br><i>with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the Messiah</i> <br><i>are also the most conservative.</i></blockquote> What was groundbreaking 2500 years ago can become reactionary dogma in the light of all that it has generated. <blockquote TYPE=CITE><i></i> <i></i> <p><i>> Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (including that</i> <br><i>> outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "fanatic",</i> <br><i>> and not "leftist")...</i><i></i> <p><i>Well, no.</i></blockquote> Let me just speak for french and german, in which both me and my wife are fluent natives. <blockquote TYPE=CITE>DY. <p>-</blockquote> </html> --------------FCF07E42F2885D9C9716776D-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (Insallah!!) Date: 20 Nov 2001 20:35:30 +0100 --------------F822CA636693BAC556950B2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > >The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Ra∩, Algeria's answer to > >rock'n > >roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish. > > But radikal (and specifically rooted to its mileu) enough in the context of > Algerian kultur to have led to the murders of some of its main proponents. > Because they were singing about forbidden "impure" profane subjects, like > women and love, corrupting youth away from the Coran. DY. > > > > > - --------------F822CA636693BAC556950B2C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <br> <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <p><i>>The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Raï, Algeria's answer to</i> <br><i>>rock'n</i> <br><i>>roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish.</i><i></i> <p><i>But radikal (and specifically rooted to its mileu) enough in the context of</i> <br><i>Algerian kultur to have led to the murders of some of its main proponents.</i></blockquote> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Because they were singing about forbidden "impure" profane subjects, like women and love, corrupting youth away from the Coran.</blockquote> DY. <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <br> <br><a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"></a> <p>-</blockquote> </html> --------------F822CA636693BAC556950B2C-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: islamic roots music (no downtown content) Date: 20 Nov 2001 14:29:36 -0800 can anyone recommend a good volume on the moorish incursion into spain and the subsequent cultural impact? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: islamic roots music (no downtown content) Date: 21 Nov 2001 11:21:46 +0100 > can anyone recommend a good volume on the moorish incursion into spain and > the subsequent cultural impact? > Any traditional flamenco record is a consequence of the mozarabic culture, especially, but not only, when there are vocals. Expect more specific answers from those Zornlisters who live in Spain, and maybe specialised lovers of cross-cultural phenomenons. Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@att.net> Subject: Re: Four recommendations: Date: 21 Nov 2001 09:03:04 -0500 Sex Mob's Steven Bernstein will be on NPR's Fresh Air today. Alan Lankin lankina@att.net http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net At 10:16 AM 11/20/2001 -0800, jason tors wrote: >Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:16:00 -0800 (PST) >From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: Four recommendations: >To: zornlist <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> >Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > >Sex Mob Does Bond still hasnt grabbed me. [...] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com> Subject: ICP Orchestra Date: 21 Nov 2001 14:02:15 -0500 I saw the ICP Orchestra in Ann Arbor last night. As expected, they were amazing. Don't miss them if they come anywhere near your town. They are a great group of listeners and improvisors who can also tear up an Ellington or Monk number. any member of the group can wrestle control at any moment; beautiful musical anarchy. Misha Mengelberg is a treasure and Han Bennink is a madman. don't miss out. They're at Tonic tonite in NYC. I tacked the tour itinerary from Karen Murphy at the bottom for handy reference. go see them. sean Instant ComposerÆs Pool Orchestra featuring Misha Mengelberg - piano Ab Baars - clarinet/sax Michael Moore - clarinet/sax Thomas Heberer - trumpet Wolter Wierbos - trombone Mary Oliver - violin/viola Tristan Honsinger - cello Ernst Glerum - bass Han Bennink - drums Nov 16: Minneapolis, Walker Arts Center Nov 17: Edmonton Nov 18: Vancouver, Western Front Nov 20: Ann Arbor, Kerrytown Concert House Nov 21: NYC, Tonic Nov 23: Atlanta, First Existentialist Congregation Nov 24: Montreal Nov 25: Toronto, Rough Trade Nov 26: Chicago Nov 27: Pittsburgh, Bellefield Hall Auditorium - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 22 Nov 2001 11:54:15 -0800 After that last mix-up, it's sad;y unlikely they'll come to Los Angeles again anytime soon. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry <Moudry@uab.edu> Subject: Fwd: ICP Orchestra Date: 21 Nov 2001 14:07:53 -0600 >From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com> >To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: ICP Orchestra >Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:02:15 -0500 >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >Importance: Normal >Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Status: > >I saw the ICP Orchestra in Ann Arbor last night. As expected, they were >amazing. Don't miss them if they come anywhere near your town. They are a >great group of listeners and improvisors who can also tear up an Ellington >or Monk number. any member of the group can wrestle control at any moment; >beautiful musical anarchy. Misha Mengelberg is a treasure and Han Bennink >is a madman. don't miss out. They're at Tonic tonite in NYC. I tacked th= e >tour itinerary from Karen Murphy at the bottom for handy reference. go see >them. sean > >Instant Composer=92s Pool Orchestra >featuring >Misha Mengelberg - piano >Ab Baars - clarinet/sax >Michael Moore - clarinet/sax >Thomas Heberer - trumpet >Wolter Wierbos - trombone >Mary Oliver - violin/viola >Tristan Honsinger - cello >Ernst Glerum - bass >Han Bennink - drums ><snip!> > >Nov 23: Atlanta, First Existentialist Congregation ><snip!> I'll be at the Atlanta concert, in case any Zornites (Zornies?!?) might also attend. I'll probably be the guy in the Sun Ra tee shirt. Hope everyone's Turkey Day is a keeper. Saturnally, -- Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, UAB Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz); <http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry> Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --de la Vega - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 22 Nov 2001 12:51:37 -0800 > What mix-up is that? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 2:54 PM > To: Sean Westergaard; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra > > > After that last mix-up, it's sad;y unlikely they'll come to Los Angeles > again anytime soon. > > skip h > > > - > > The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com> Subject: RE: ICP Orchestra Date: 21 Nov 2001 15:52:32 -0500 ooops. i would call that a serious marketing blunder. I hope no one sprayed our Dutch friends with Faygo. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:52 PM > What mix-up is that? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 2:54 PM > To: Sean Westergaard; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra > > > After that last mix-up, it's sad;y unlikely they'll come to Los Angeles > again anytime soon. > > skip h > > > - > > The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund. skip h - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: RE: ICP Orchestra Date: 21 Nov 2001 16:15:11 -0500 I thought the bigger problem had been Misha's refusal to play the electric piano the Knit supplied for the gig, since his rider specifies an acoustic...? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Sean Westergaard <seawes@allmusic.com> wrote: > ooops. i would call that a serious marketing blunder. I hope no one sprayed our Dutch friends with Faygo. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:52 PM > What mix-up is that? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 2:54 PM > To: Sean Westergaard; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra > > > After that last mix-up, it's sad;y unlikely they'll come to Los Angeles > again anytime soon. > > skip h > > > - > > The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund. skip h - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 22 Nov 2001 14:14:50 -0800 > I thought the bigger problem had been Misha's refusal to play the electric > piano the Knit supplied for the gig, since his rider specifies an acoustic...? > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > That was the second problem. The first (the one that resulted in refunds, I might add) -- and I think you'll agree -- is a much funnier story to tell. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Molony <mooch@btconnect.com> Subject: cds for sale - shop early to avoid xmas disappointment Date: 21 Nov 2001 22:26:04 +0000 =A35 includes shipping to UK $9 includes shipping US and Europe BARRY GUY LONDON JAZZ ORCH W. SCWEIZER THEORIA INTAKT PATRICK ZIMMERN ENSEMBLE EXPANSION SONGLINES ANDY LASTER'S HYDRA POLYOGUE SONGLINES FORMANEK/BERNE/ FELDMAN ET AL EXTENDED ANIMATION ENJA BAKIDA CARROLL MARIONETTES ON A HIGH WIRE OMNITON= E KLETKA RED HYBRID RED NOTE TISHJI MUNOZ AUSPICIOUS HEALING ANAMI BRAD MEHLDAU ELEGAIC CYCLE WARNERS OREGON WITH MOSCOW TSCHAIKOVSKY SYMPH.ORCH IN MOSCOW INTUITION *****DOUBLE BOX SET =A38 OR $16 . THANKS FOR THE TIME AND SPACE. KEVIN =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Verstraeten Stefan" <stefan.verstraeten@belgacom.net> Subject: Seigen Ono Question (20 cd box) Date: 21 Nov 2001 13:45:49 +0100 Hi there, I know there are some Japanese music fans amongst you, so I have one little question concerning the 20 cds Seigen Ono box called Saidera Paradiso. I just bought it, mainly because the box contains a lot of old AND new (!!!) work including John Zorn... wich is good to hear him back in that old fashioned shape i.e. no massada stuff, no modern classical sounds... no, just his eighties melodic sax lines (like the stuff he did also with seigen ono on his made to measure release). But I have one question concerning cds 3 and 4 from the box, called I went to Rio de Janeiro. These discs contains at first sight random street conversations from 1990 (as the booklet says). So I would like to know what was the meaning behind this (old) release. It does not contain any music, just these conversations. I know that Seigen Ono is into a lot of things (theater, dance, fashion shows for comme des garconcs), but these always include music... and this one does not. Can someone help me with that release? Thanks in advance Stefan Verstraeten n.p. Beach boys: The complete pet sounds sessions Stefan.Verstraeten@belgacom.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: frith question + frith news Date: 22 Nov 2001 13:08:31 +0100 >From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu> > >someone sent me a recording of a german radio show involving fred frith >working with source material provided by alexander schuhmacher. the music >in the show is constantly interrupted by german commentary (or frith being >interviewed, which is immediately overdubbed with german translation). sorry about the delayed response but I┤m a little bit behind... you should ask this question on the Frith-list (fred@lists.music.ch) where Mr. Fred has the opportunity to answer himself... Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 22 Nov 2001 13:40:53 EST > I thought the bigger problem had been Misha's refusal to play the electric > piano the Knit supplied for the gig, since his rider specifies an acoustic...? > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > That was the second problem. The first (the one that resulted in refunds, I might add) -- and I think you'll agree -- is a much funnier story to tell. skip h >> For someone going to the show, refusal to play was probably the primary problem. They did play Oakland (Yoshis) on the 12th, as well as other west coast dates, but no So. Cal. dates that I'm aware of. This was the 2nd time they played Oakland and the show was great. They played many pieces from their new Cd "Oh, My Dog" as well as quite a few Ellington Pieces. It was great to hear Mengelberg on a good, well amplified, in tune piano for a change. Bennink made me laugh a few times; stirring a Yoshis tea cup for percussive effect before pretending to down the tea, and wrapping the curtains around his drumset before jumping out to scare people. Moore and Werbois are some of my favorite musicians on the planet, but everyone played beautifully. Definitely check them out if you get the chance. John Threadgould - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 22 Nov 2001 11:08:38 -0800 >>>They did play Oakland (Yoshis) on the 12th, as well as other west coast dates, but no So. Cal. dates that I'm aware of.<<< They still played that night in LA, but at vocalist Bonnie Barnett's house. A much better venue than the Knitting Fucktory. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Uri Caine x 3 Date: 23 Nov 2001 09:32:16 +0100 (MET) Uri Caine has just released three, very different new CDs on Winter & Winter: _Solitaire_ (solo piano); _Bedrock_, a trio with Tim Lebebvre on bass and Zack Danziger on drums and sounds and including input from DJ Logic (Caine plays a lot of Fender Rhodes here); and _Rio_ an "audio film" with Brazilian musicians. All highly recommended! Regards, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 23 Nov 2001 09:32:12 +0000 >They played many pieces from >their new Cd "Oh, My Dog" as well as quite a few Ellington Pieces. There's a new cd??? What label?? A track list perhaps? Is it mainly Misha's compositions this time? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: ICP Orchestra Date: 23 Nov 2001 18:42:52 +0100 > > >They played many pieces from > >their new Cd "Oh, My Dog" as well as quite a few Ellington Pieces. > > There's a new cd??? What label?? > ICP... catalog number 040 Also, saxophone player Tobias Delius, and ICP violinist Mary Oliver released new titles on the ICP label. In Holland the label is distributed by BVHaast, Willem Breuker's company. > A track list perhaps? Is it mainly Misha's compositions this time? > All compositions by the group, except where otherwise indicated: Write down exactly A close encounter with Charles's Country Band (Baars) A la Russe (Mengeldberg) Travel Agent Ham on Air (Moore) Hand and checked luggage Oh my deer/ Wild Turkey/ Out back, Chickadee/ Sparkling/ Oh my dog!/ Happy Dreams (All by Honsinger) > > 'A Close encounter with Charles's March Band' might refer to the more note-true rendition of the Charles Ives piece that ICP played in Utrecht, Holland, when writer/ critic Kevin Whitehead organised an evening of adventurous music, in 2000. The show included stuff by the ICP Orchestra, but also chamber music by Louis Andriessen. Regards, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann <TimBlechmann@gmx.net> Subject: Re: Uri Caine x 3 Date: 23 Nov 2001 18:37:43 +0100 SF> Uri Caine has just released three, very different new CDs on Winter & SF> Winter: _Solitaire_ (solo piano); _Bedrock_, a trio with Tim Lebebvre on SF> bass and Zack Danziger on drums and sounds and including input from DJ SF> Logic (Caine plays a lot of Fender Rhodes here); and _Rio_ an "audio film" SF> with Brazilian musicians. All highly recommended! Regards, Stephen i also heard of a further release. some of his gustaf mahler stuff should be released, too. does anyone know some details about this? Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Uri Caine x 3 Date: 24 Nov 2001 09:46:14 -0800 > i also heard of a further release. some of his gustaf mahler stuff > should be released, too. does anyone know some details about this? > More Mahler songs. I forget who the singers are. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Kinda OT: ICP Orchestra Sunday Special, etc. Date: 24 Nov 2001 10:33:26 +0000 WAUWW!!! Did anybody record this?!?!?! > > Please tune into WREK (91.1FM or www.wrek.org) from 7-9pm this Sunday >evening (November 18th) for the Sunday Special featuring the music of the >Instant Composers Pool Orchestra. We will be playing selections from their >entire catalog including some vinyl rarities, plus their brand new release >Oh, My Dog! The ICP Orchestra will be performing at 8:30pm on Friday, >November 23rd at the First Existentialist Congregation in Candler Park. >Full details forthcoming. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com> Subject: OT: countries were music is banned Date: 24 Nov 2001 13:50:53 +0000 Hello! Somebody mentioned that in all so-called fundmentalist islamic states, music is totally forbidden. How many states is that, actually? I thought that Afghanistan was the only place were music was officially forbidden, though it seems to be somewhat accepted since a few weeks ago now. Cheers. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Date: 24 Nov 2001 13:59:45 +0000 Hey. >Reminds me the statement from Weinberg: > > "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people > can do evil; but for good people to do evil -- that takes religion." Very nice quote! Who is Weinberg? Cheers. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: John Butcher US dates Date: 24 Nov 2001 11:25:12 EST Sunday Nov 25 - San Fransisco with Fred Frith Tuva Space, 3192 Adeline, Berkeley - 8 pm Wednesday, Nov 28 - St. Louis solo 28 - Workshop, Steinberg Auditorium, Washington University Gallery of Art. 2pm 314-995-4963. 8:00pm, Focal Point, 2720 Sutton. 314-995-4963 duo dates with Gerry Hemingway: Thursday, Nov 29 - Chicago, IL Hot House, 31 E. Balbo, between State & Wabash Friday, Nov 30 - Madison, WI Venue: Wendy Cooper Gallery, 824 E. Johnson, 8:00PM Saturday, Dec 1 - Ann Arbor, MI Venue: Kerrytown Concert House, 415 N. Fourth Ave. (734) 769-7791 Sunday, Dec 2 - Grand Rapids, MI Lazaro Vega, Blue Lake Public Radio, 300 East Crystal Lake Road, Twin Lake (231) 894 - 5656 Monday, December 3rd - Bloomington, Indiana aftrnoon, Workshop at University of Indiana, Pat Harbison, Venue; Monroe County Historical Society, 6th and washington (southeast corner). 8:00pm Tuesday, December 4th - Louisville Promoter - Keenan Lawler, 102 Forest Ct #5, 502-893-3260, 502-468-2886 cell phone Wednesday, December 5th - Winston-Salem Project Space 211 (a.k.a. Where House), 211 E. Third Street, 336/722-2064 Thursday, December 6th - Chapel Hill Venue: Skylight Exchange is at 405 1/2 Rosemary St, 9 pm Friday, December 7th - Baltimore Red Room, 425 E. 31st street, phone 410 243 6888 - 8.30pm electromanipulation duo with Phil Durrant: Saturday, December 8 - Boston Institute of Contemporary Arts Theater, 955 Boylston St. Sunday, Dec 9 Washington George Washington University, Phillips Hall, Room B120 - 8pm Tuesday, December 11 - New York Experimental Intermedia, 224 Centre Street at Grand, Third Floor - 9pm Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OT: countries were music is banned Date: 24 Nov 2001 18:37:09 +0000 >From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com> I thought that Afghanistan was the only place were music was officially forbidden, >though it seems to be somewhat accepted since a few weeks ago now. Actually any kind of artistic musical expression is specifically discouraged throughout all of North America, hence the proliferation of bad vacuous 'pop' sounds... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> Subject: re: OT: countries were music is banned Date: 24 Nov 2001 19:52:07 +0100 Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME. --------------C4DB1CDEFF8C5C360CB15082 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------C4DB1CDEFF8C5C360CB15082 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3BFFEC12.39B678C3@wanadoo.fr> Reply-To: y-man@wanadoo.fr X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <F79A2DreBBsQwY6YHki000011fb@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Arthur Gadney a Θcrit : > > Somebody mentioned that in all so-called fundmentalist islamic states, music > is totally forbidden. How many states is that, actually? 4 (now that Afghanistan is no longer Taliban) : Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan (suniite), Iran (shiite). Music is allowed there, but under very specific conditions. I' ll try to get my friend Julian Weiss, founder of the pan-arabic ensemble El-Kindi, to give me the specifics on that if you're interested. DY. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > - --------------C4DB1CDEFF8C5C360CB15082-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Zorn-List Admin Notice Date: 24 Nov 2001 12:51:13 -0800 (PST) Hola, I just waded through over 1700 bounced messages for the zorn-list...there were a few that I'll be forwarding to y'all in the next couple of minutes (in case you are wondering why all these old messages are just appearing now). Most of these bounces were for the following reasons 1. the message came from an address not subscribed to the zorn-list or zorn-list-digest 2. the message was too frickin' large...usually because someone included a copy of the entire digest (forgot to trim), decided that attaching a JPEG would be cool (FYI: it's not), or included both plain text and HTML versions of their message....or just said too much. ;) 3. someone used one of several key words that the mailing list software uses to catch subscription/ unsubscription messages. Some of these keywords y'all should avoid using (if timely deliver of your message is important) are: subscribe unsubscribe cancel help thanks for listening, back to our regularly scheduled postage stamp discussions, mike rizzi zorn-list-hack-and-owner "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- Hunter S. Thompson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Sweet <bsweet@umich.edu> Subject: [Fwd: Re: When Bernstein live?] Date: 17 Oct 2001 09:27:57 -0400 Steven tours Europe with his Millenial Territory Orchestra and, I believe, Diaspora Soul. Bob Sweet bsweet@arborville.com Read Music Universe, Music Mind: Revisiting the Creative Music Studio http://www.arborville.com Subscribe to CMS Update http://www.arborville.com/subscribe.html patbor wrote: > > Hello, > > trying to find out if > STEVE BERNSTEIN tours EUROPE > frequently with or without SEX MOB > Some of you must certainly know, > maybe Jason Tors... > > Thanks, > Patb > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Parry Gettelman <parry@macconnect.com> Subject: Gjerstad Date: 19 Oct 2001 19:41:20 GMT Gjerstad were supposed to be at the Zeitgeist creative music festival here in New Orleans last week, but one of the venue directors said they had to cancel "Because their wives wouldn't let them fly" to the United States. However, Konk Pack made it last night. Very high level of interaction between Hodgkinson, Turner and Lehn and they were so imaginative individually, it was hard to decide which one to watch at any given moment. Lots of little surprises that made me smile, and one time Turner whacked his tom w/ such sudden and exaggerated force that I actually jumped. I had been looking right at him but he still snuck up on me. They all seemed to be having monstrous fun, but Lehn particularly seemed to be just absolutely smitten with all his knobs and dials. I thought he might swoon at a couple points when they were all playing really loud and intense. Parry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: help with Dave Douglas' EL TRILOGY Date: 31 Oct 2001 14:33:47 -0800 Just a basic question concerning EL TRILOGY. What is the name of the third piece? I have the following track listing: Five Part Weather Invention 1/ Aerial Manouvers 2/ Aria One 3/ Bounding Lines 4/ Scherzo 5/ Aria Two 6/ Rapture To Leon James 7/ Groove And Countermove 8/ Prairie 9/ Escher 10/ Spring 11/ Anton 12/ Fin I know that the name of the second is "Rapture To Leon James", but I can't figure out the third title (which should be, I guess, a suite). Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: frith question + frith news Date: 22 Nov 2001 19:57:50 +0100 How to subscribe to this list? > you should ask this question on the Frith-list (fred@lists.music.ch) where > Mr. Fred has the opportunity to answer himself... > > Andreas > > _________________________________________________________________ > Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Odp: frith question + frith news Date: 23 Nov 2001 11:00:25 +0100 >From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> > >How to subscribe to this list? send an empty message to fred-subscribe@lists.music.ch Andreas np: Bill Dixon Septet/Winter Song (Savoy) _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jmcazurin <mikah@toast.net> Subject: where to go in london? Date: 24 Nov 2001 20:21:49 -0500 Hello all - I'll be spending at least a few weeks in London in the early part of next year. I was a kid when I was last there so I know next to nothing about good places to go in that city. Can the list help me out? 1. where do I go to watch good live music? (including but definitely not limited to jazz and zornlist-ish stuff) 2. what's the local equivalent of nyc's Other Music? 3. what's the local equivalent of nyc's Village Voice (and where can I find it)? websites? 4. other non-tourist points of interest? My work may also take me to Birmingham and Dublin, so tips for those cities would be great too. Thanks very much in advance! mikah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: where to go in london? Date: 24 Nov 2001 20:48:20 EST In a message dated 11/24/01 8:23:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikah@toast.net writes: << 1. where do I go to watch good live music? (including but definitely not limited to jazz and zornlist-ish stuff) >> From what I've read off of the cardiacs list, The Mean Fiddler seems to be a good venue for the up-and-coming bands. Do yourself a favor and hit the Organart @ << http//www.organart.com/ >> They're pretty much a driving force in the London and proximity underground music and arts scene. Great magazine and label too. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tal G." <telly_o@softhome.net> Subject: ICP mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 02:45:18 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C17624.6280E840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of = disappointed >Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund. Does Sam Rivers play live anymore? If so, I wonder if people show up expecting to see the Limp Bizkit bassist. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C17624.6280E840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dwindows-1255"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>The one where the Knit adverttised = them as=20 "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a=20 refund.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does Sam Rivers play live = anymore? If so, I=20 wonder if people show up</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>expecting to see the Limp Bizkit = bassist.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C17624.6280E840-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com> Subject: A few CDs for sale Date: 26 Nov 2001 00:56:36 Hi, If anyone is interested in any of the following, reply to me off-list and suggest a price. I am being really reasonable with these, price-wise, since I found several at clearance-type sales and just never became too attached to them. Also, none of these is a promo. Paul Bley/Gary Peacock/Paul Motian - NOT TWO, NOT ONE (ECM, 1999) Tomasz Stanko - FROM THE GREEN HILL (ECM, 1999) Gianluigi Trovesi/Gianni Coscia - IN CERCA DI CIBO (ECM, 2000) Merzbow - RAINBOW ELECTRONICS 2 (Dextar's Cigar, 1996?) Motor Humming - MUSICAL ALUMINUM (Tzadik, 1999) David Shea - SATYRICON (Sub Rosa, 1997) Roy Nathanson/Anthony Coleman (with Marc Ribot and Brad Jones) - I COULD'VE BEEN A DRUM (Tzadik, 1997) John Lurie - THE LEGENDARY MARVIN PONTIAC - GREATEST HITS (Strange & Beautiful, 1999) I have some other worthwhile, Z-list-related stuff I would be interested in possibly trading. If you're interested in that, let me know. Ok, back to more important things, and sorry if this kind of posting is tacky. WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org> Subject: Re: ICP mixup Date: 25 Nov 2001 19:34:00 -0800 At 2:45 AM +0200 11/26/2001, Tal G. wrote: > >The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed > >Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund. > >Does Sam Rivers play live anymore? If so, I wonder if people show up >expecting to see the Limp Bizkit bassist. He and his trio played in Portland this year. Rivers looked pretty aged, but played fantastically. -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh" <subexistence@hotmail.com> Subject: Moonraker shows, anyone? Date: 25 Nov 2001 23:38:48 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C1760A.5490A280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings. BElieve the name of the group is MOONRAKER; Buckethead and = Mike Patton. Anyone have any live shows? I've got an eclectic list for = trade. Let me know. Thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C1760A.5490A280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"PT Grants Hand">Greetings. BElieve the name of = the group=20 is MOONRAKER; Buckethead and Mike Patton. Anyone have any live=20 shows? I've got an eclectic list for trade. Let me = know. =20 Thanks.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C1760A.5490A280-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: ICP mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 21:38:22 -0800 >> Does Sam Rivers play live anymore? If so, I wonder if people show up >> expecting to see the Limp Bizkit bassist. > > He and his trio played in Portland this year. Rivers looked pretty > aged, but played fantastically. Who's his band at this point? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com> Subject: Re: ICP Mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 02:42:37 -0500 Hello, ....speaking of Sam Rivers, I was given a copy of the Rivbea All-Star Orchestra "Inspiration" CD from '99, and it's not bad at all. It features plenty of names--Steve Coleman, Greg Osby, Hamiet Bluiett, Joseph Daley, Chico Freeman, etc.--and the music is highly spirited, at times quite intense examinations of the big band approach. It's not my favorite River's release --that would be the "Trio Live" CD reish on Impulse-- but the overall quality is rather impressive for a guy who was well nearing the end of his 4th decade of playing/recording when "Inspiration' was released. Most people burn out well before that. What are other list members favorite River's discs? I'd want more from the guy and would like some advice on where to go next. I have him on "Miles in Tokyo", the Impulse "Hues" LP, the "Trio Live" CD, his track on the "Wildflowers" set, and the above All-Star Orch. disc. He did some stuff for Blue Note, correct? How was that? I remain.... Joseph NP: The Fall "Live at the Witch Trials" LP NR: William H. Gass "Omensetter's Luck" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= <stephane.vuilleumier@micro.biol.ethz.ch> Subject: Sam Rivers was RE: ICP Mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 09:40:08 +0100 > -----Original Message----- > From: josephneff [mailto:jneff@visuallink.com] > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:43 AM > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: ICP Mixup >=20 >=20 >He did some stuff for Blue Note, correct? How was that? >=20 the 3CD blue note reissue of Bluenotes is awesome to my taste and one of the best value for money Mosaic sets I can think of St=E9phane - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" <patbor@buzzle.com> Subject: Two questions Date: 26 Nov 2001 04:16:40 -0500 Hello, 1) Which are the latest FRANK LONDON releases? 2) Does a DAVE DOUGLAS-list exist? Thank You PatB - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Sam Rivers, Was: Re: ICP mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 10:52:11 +0100 > > He and his trio played in Portland this year. Rivers looked pretty > > aged, but played fantastically. > > Who's his band at this point? > > skip h > Hey, I'm in Europe, so I have no idea if I am remotely up to date with this, but last year (2000) his trio consisted of Doug Matthews on bass, and Anthony Cole on drums. According to Coda Magazine 289 (by Greg Buium, jan/ feb 2000) Matthews played acoustic and electric bass plus bassclarinet, Rivers also played piano and flute, while Cole played drums and tenor saxophone. In the article the writer observed an enduring consistency in Rivers favoring versatile, open-minded musicians in his groups: Dave Holland (bass, electric bass, cello) , Joe Daley (tuba, trombone) and Thurman Barker (drums and vibes). Regards, Remco Takken np Sam Rivers & Julian Priester: Hints on Light and Shadow - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Two questions Date: 26 Nov 2001 11:01:10 +0100 > Hello, > > 1) Which are the latest FRANK LONDON > releases? > > Thank You > PatB > A recent Knitting Factory release is 'Adventures of the Afro-Semitic Diaspora, episode 5762: From the Belly of Abraham' with Frank London & Greg Wall's Hasidic New Wave Alioune Faye & Yakar Rhythms. It is a way cool collection of judaica blended with senegalese rhythms. It is an odd collecton that maybe teaches us how today's jazz music could have sounded like if the jewish and the african musicians had met in New Amsterdam in 1600 already... Imagine African drummers feasting through a jewish wedding. Our roots began in Africa. Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: ICP Mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 06:23:15 -0500 on 01.11.26 2:42 AM, josephneff at jneff@visuallink.com wrote: > What are other list members favorite > River's discs? Hey, don't et me started... > He did some stuff for Blue Note, correct? How was that? Absolutely essential, reaching, probing, hooked to the tradition but exploding it at the same time. I love this set. Also, well-- The Tony Williams' discs, SPRING and LIFE TIME / Hutcherson's DIALOGUE / the Rivers - Andrew Hill 2LP INVOLUTION -- these are all essential Blue Notes as well, and while you're at it you could dive into the 10CD set on Mosaic of the Andrew Hill stuff, which contains one more session with Sam. Then you've got CONFERENCE OF TE BIRDS, isn't tat one of the greatest recordings of aaaallllll tiiiiime (say it like Ali) w/ Braxton, Holland, and Altschul. The WAVES disc, easily acquired (and cheap as hell), w/ Holland-Daley-Barker is a mover. WINDS OF MANHATTAN - COLOURS on Black Saint - big band all reeds. Reggie Workman's SUMMIT CONFERENCE is hot hot hot - w/ Hill Priester and akLaff. (RW's CEREBRAL CAVERNS is great also.) PORTRAIT on FMP, Sammy's solo disc from '95. The Priester Rivers duos on Postcards, HINTS ON LIGHT AND SHADOW. ... there are more I love, but I don't want to overload anyone. The Sessionography is of course linked below. > rather impressive for a guy who was well nearing the end > of his 4th decade of playing/recording when "Inspiration' was released. Most > people burn out well before that. Sam is a nut. One of the liveliest, most spirited, and forthcoming human bein's I've ever had the honor to meet. Best, Rick Lopez ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: Sam Rivers Date: 26 Nov 2001 07:24:53 -0800 For the few of you not already familiar with Dave Holland's _Conference of the Birds_ with Rivers, Braxton and Altschul, a rare treat awaits. Seeing Rivers with Holland back in the late 70s at the Lighthouse in Hermosa Beach remains one of my favorite concert experiences. He looked very old then. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sh *" <subexistence@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Moonraker Date: 26 Nov 2001 10:29:08 -0500 Apparently Buckethead was not part of Mike Patton's Moonraker, though I remember someone posting about a Moonraker gig either this year or last, where Buckethead played with them, holding a double-necked [touch] guitar, one being bass, and one being guitar. If I recall correctly, Patton kept calling Big B "bitch." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Mistaken indentity [was RE: ICP Orchestra] Date: 26 Nov 2001 11:29:47 -0500 We once had a similar situation at the NYC Knit. We put on a performance by the Michael Gordon Philharmonic, a new-music quartet made up of Bang on a Can composer Michael Gordon, soprano Dora Ohrenstein and a couple of other like minds. But somehow, word got out that it was actually a secret gig by Mike Gordon, bassist for Phish. Adding fuel to the fire, Phish happened to be taping an appearance on Letterman that same afternoon. Our phones rang off the hook for a day and a half leading up to the show, with young stoners asking if it was true that Mike Gordon was playing on the evening in question. We responded truthfully, insisting that it wasn't the same guy, but every time we did, said stoners would reply, "Oh, you just *have* to say that since it's a secret show, right?" and went right ahead with their purchase. The show, needless to say, sold out in advance. I daresay it's the only scenario in which I can imagine the Michael Gordon Philharmonic playing its particular brand of turbo-charged post-minimalism to a crowd of 300 patchouli-scented, hemp wearing Phishheads at the Knit. Miraculously, while a few people had tried to cancel their advance ticket orders (apparently the Phish bassist eventually got a message to the mailing list indicating that he wouldn't in fact be playing that night), we did not have a stampede at the ticket booth and it even looked as if some of the kids were enjoying it - a little. (Now, the nights that Pat Metheny played with Derek Bailey, Gregg Bendian and Paul Wertico - THOSE nights we definitely had some pissed off yuppies looking to get their gold cards credited...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:15 PM Cc: zorn > I thought the bigger problem had been Misha's refusal to play the electric > piano the Knit supplied for the gig, since his rider specifies an acoustic...? > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > That was the second problem. The first (the one that resulted in refunds, I might add) -- and I think you'll agree -- is a much funnier story to tell. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: mike patton projects Date: 26 Nov 2001 10:38:42 -0600 (CST) Hey everybody, I was wanting to see if anybody could make some recommendations on past and current mike patton projects and recordings. kasra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi" <noise@texas.net> Subject: To Austin Texas subscribers: Date: 26 Nov 2001 11:20:09 -0600 To Austin Texas subscribers: Gates Ensemble is playing this Friday, November 30th, from 8pm to 2am, at Ruta Mayas on 4th and Lavaca. Please come join us for a 6 hour electro-acoustic improvisation. Instrumentation includes violin, viola, contrabass, guitar, oboe, turntable, and live electronics. Admission is Free :) For more information contact me at noise@texas.net. Thank you! (apologies for the cross postings!) Bill Thompson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: mike patton projects Date: 26 Nov 2001 17:13:03 +0000 >From: kasra@ou.edu >Hey everybody, >I was wanting to see if anybody could make some recommendations on past and >current mike patton projects and recordings. Fantomas!!! Either album , the first (Amenaza al Mundo) or The Director's Cut, also some great live tracks floating around. Mike Patton with Dave Lombardo (Slayer), Buzz Osborne (Melvins) Trevor Dunn (Mr. Bungle) doing a distinctly Zorn influenced post-sludge rock trip, very short 'songs', intense dense miniatures... np: Fantomas Live at Toad's Place 12-10-99 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: waits b e a c o n pictures Date: 26 Nov 2001 09:55:13 -0800 (PST) remember when waits played the beacon? If not here are some visual reminders. http://www.spearedpeanut.com/tomwaits/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com> Subject: Re: Andrew Hill (was ICP mixup) Date: 26 Nov 2001 15:51:09 -0500 Hello, ...Mr. Lopez, in his rundown of Sam River's highlights, mentioned work with Andrew Hill. I have Hill's "Grass Roots" CD reish, and enjoy it very much. It's very accessible sounding stuff. I've read/heard that Hill released more outside material, and I'm guessing that the work w/ Rivers fits this description. But I'm rather lost as to Hill's other recordings and what kind of stylistic trajectory his music took from the '60's onward. Besides the stuff w/ Rivers (which sounds awfully enticing), what is worthwhile? I remain.... Joseph NP: Andrew Hill "Grass Roots" CD NR: William H. Gass "Omensetter's Luck" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moudry <Moudry@uab.edu> Subject: Fwd: ICP mixup Date: 26 Nov 2001 15:42:21 -0600 --============_-1205311553==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >From: "Tal G." <telly_o@softhome.net> >To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com >Subject: ICP mixup >Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:45:18 +0200 >X-Priority: 3 >Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Status: > > >The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed > >Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund. > >Does Sam Rivers play live anymore? If so, I wonder if people show up >expecting to see the Limp Bizkit bassist. Sam Rivers will appear in Atlanta on Saturiday, 23 February 2002, followed six days later by Evan Parker in a trio format. More details on request (and boy, am I looking forward to both concerts). ICP Orchestra's concert last Friday was truly fine. It was archived, if anyone's interested. Saturnally, -- Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, UAB Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz); <http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry> Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --de la Vega --============_-1205311553==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Fwd: ICP mixup</title></head><body> <blockquote type="cite" cite>From: "Tal G." <telly_o@softhome.net><br> X-Priority: 3<br> Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com<br> Status: <br> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">>The one where the Knit adverttised them as "ICP" and a bunch of disappointed</font></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">>Insane Clown Posse fans demanded a refund.</font></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">Does Sam Rivers play live anymore? If so, I wonder if people show up</font></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">expecting to see the Limp Bizkit bassist.</font></blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Sam Rivers will appear in Atlanta on Saturiday, 23 February 2002, followed six days later by Evan Parker in a trio format. More details on request (and boy, am I looking forward to both concerts). ICP Orchestra's concert last Friday was truly fine. It was archived, if anyone's interested.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Saturnally,</div> <div>-- <br> Joe Moudry<br> Office of Academic Computing & Technology<br> School of Education, UAB<br> <br> Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra & Free Jazz);<br> <http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry><br> Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creative Improv on Alabama Public Radio<br> WUAL 91.5 FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham<br> WQPR 887. FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama<br> WAPR 88.3 Selma/Montgomery/Southern AL<br> "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."<br> <x-tab> </x-tab>--de la Vega</div> </body> </html> --============_-1205311553==_ma============-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" <soulfrieda@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Andrew Hill (was ICP mixup) Date: 26 Nov 2001 17:11:23 -0600 And if I can piggyback off of this question, can anyone comment (sound quality aside) on Anthony Braxton's recent CIMP disc of Hill compositions? I recently picked up that 4 disc box set on hatART, and while I enjoy it I was expecting a bit more considering all praise that is heaped on it. Am I missing something? Thanks, Ben >From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com> >To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: Andrew Hill (was ICP mixup) >Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:51:09 -0500 > >Hello, > ...Mr. Lopez, in his rundown of Sam River's highlights, mentioned >work with Andrew Hill. I have Hill's "Grass Roots" CD reish, and enjoy it >very much. It's very accessible sounding stuff. I've read/heard that Hill >released more outside material, and I'm guessing that the work w/ Rivers >fits this description. But I'm rather lost as to Hill's other recordings >and >what kind of stylistic trajectory his music took from the '60's onward. >Besides the stuff w/ Rivers (which sounds awfully enticing), what is >worthwhile? > >I remain.... > >Joseph > >NP: Andrew Hill "Grass Roots" CD >NR: William H. Gass "Omensetter's Luck" > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Yahowa 13 Date: 26 Nov 2001 23:35:53 -0500 >the Japanese label Captain Trip released a 13 CD box compiling their complete >recordings a couple of years ago, but needless to say, it's for completists Though completeness was the intention, collector John Fitzpatrick discovered yet another Yahowa LP called "Yodship Suite 3: In Praise Of Our Father" that's not on the box set. LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: New music in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November 27, Date: 26 Nov 2001 22:45:56 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>, you'll hear music by Samm Bennett, John Butcher, James Coleman, Rick Cox, Michael Jon Fink, Gianni Gebbia, Charlotte Hug, Brett Larner, Eric Lyon, Paul Herman Reller, Ian Smith, and Wadada Leo Smith. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring long works by Phillip Arnautoff, Marilyn Crispell, David First, Larry Polansky, Salvatore Sciarrino, and John Stevens) is still available in the Mappings archive <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr> Subject: Re: where to go in london? Date: 27 Nov 2001 07:29:17 +0200 > >From: jmcazurin <mikah@toast.net> >Subject: where to go in london? > >Hello all - > > I'll be spending at least a few weeks in London in the early part of >next year. I was a kid when I was last there so I know next to nothing >about good places to go in that city. Can the list help me out? > > 2. what's the local equivalent of nyc's Other Music? Try this shop (run by a musician, cellist Mark Wastell) : Sound 323 323 Archway Road Highgate London N6 5AA tel/fax 0044 (0)20 8348 9595 sound323@aol.com Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Sam Rivers recommendation Date: 27 Nov 2001 09:21:18 +0100 > people burn out well before that. What are other list members favorite > River's discs? I heard there's a new Wayne Horvitz 4+1 cd out, which reminds me of trombonist Julian Priester being in the band, along with electronic wiz Tucker Martine. Interestingly, those two made a record with Sam Rivers in 1997. I just returned to these 1997 electronic improvisations, 'Hints on light and shadow' on Postcard Records. It's way cool, and since Postcards is back in business through Arcadia Jazz, it shouldn't be hard to get a copy. Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Fwd: mike patton projects Date: 27 Nov 2001 10:48:07 +0100 (CET) > > Hey everybody, > I was wanting to see if anybody could make some > recommendations on past and > current mike patton projects and recordings. > kasra Hi, Both of FantomΓs albums are worth the money, specially their first release, "Amenaza al Mundo". As someone said, it has something from Naked City. Their music works as fast-changing small cells. Mr. Bungle: buy them all! but specially "Disco Volante", maybe more Zorn-list-related stuff there. Best, EfrΘn del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= <npc_4@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: new issue of Opprobrium Date: 27 Nov 2001 15:42:44 +0000 (GMT) The new issue of Opprobrium can now be viewed at: http://www.info.net.nz/opprobrium/html/online/2/e2.html Only one interview this time - Joe Morris - but about 150 reviews for your reading pleasure. Nick Cain ===== www.info.net.nz/opprobrium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= <npc_4@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: where to go in london? Date: 27 Nov 2001 15:44:57 +0000 (GMT) Excuse delay & lengthy response to this. >>I'll be spending at least a few weeks in London in the early part of next year. > 1. where do I go to watch good live music? (including but definitely not limited to jazz and zornlist-ish stuff) Well, London is so huge and has so many different music venues that it's difficult to answer this question without knowing something more specific about your music tastes. Whenever John Zorn comes to London he plays at the Barbican, a huge, ugly and labyrinthine music/theatre/cinema/opera complex in the financial district of London. It's worth keeping an eye on their schedules, as well as those of the South Bank venues: Purcell Room, Queen Elizabeth Hall, and the Royal Festival Hall. As for smaller venues, well, London unfortunately has no equivalent to the Knitting Factory or even Tonic. Some of the better small London venues are: -Vortex: a jazz cafe in Stoke Newington (north east London), has gigs most nights. Evan Parker plays there most months -Red Rose: large-ish backroom of a pub in Finsbury Park (north London) that has lots of good improv on a monthly basis -Spitz: nice cafe/bar in east London -Arts Cafe: ditto There're dozens and dozens of venues scattered across the city, any one of which could put on something of interest to you on any given night. Best thing for you to do is pick up a copy of 'Time Out' when you get here and check the listings. Early January's not the best time of the year to experience the London music scene as the weather is so shit that most people are in hibernation, but you should be able to see something good while you're here. >2. what's the local equivalent of nyc's Other Music? Never having been to Other Music I couldn't say, but probably the closest equivalent would be Rough Trade in Covent Garden - good if slightly thin selection of electronica through free improv, etc. I would, however, guess that it is rather smaller in size and scope than Other Music. They also have a branch off Portobello Road in (Notting Hill, west London) that's specialises more in indie. Also good for indie-type stuff is Selectadisc (on Berwick Street in Soho). For more jazz/improv/Zorn list material, there's Ray's Jazz Shop (on Monmouth St in Covent Garden), and Mole Jazz (can't remember which street, though it's near Kings Cross railway station). Shopping there can be quite a depressing experience - dingy atmosphere, expensive prices, and staff are incredibly bitter and surly. The 2ndhand section is good, though. Tower Records on Piccadilly Circus has a large and fairly comprehensive jazz section but is, as you would expect, expensive. My knowledge of London record stores isn't encyclopaedic - records/CDs are so expensive here that with the strength of the pound it's usually more economical to mailorder them from the States - so other London-based subscribers to this list might want to chime in with alternate opinions. My favourite London record stores are Sound 323 and These Records. Both are a bit out of town but well worth the trip - both have a small-ish, well-chosen range of stock at the cheapest prices you'll find in London. Sound 323 is located in Highgate in north London, and These is in Lambeth, in south London. NB: These is situated in the middle of a suburban street, with no signage whatsoever. They've completely painted over their front window with whitewash, and the only indication that These Records is based there is a tiny sticker next to the doorbell. You ring the doorbell, and someone lets you in. That's the way they like to do it there. You should note that London is not a good place to look for rare and collectable LPs. The collectors' market here is well sewn-up and rather overpriced relative to that of the States. To give you some idea, there's a record store on Portobello Road called Intoxica that specialises in collector-type records. They have a jazz department in the basement with lots of rare LPs. I visited there a couple of years ago, and they had an original vinyl copy of Sun Ra's 'Lanquidity' LP in good condition, which was selling for a mere ú625. >3. what's the local equivalent of nyc's Village Voice (and where can I find it)? websites? To its detriment, London has no equivalent to the Village Voice. As mentioned above, the closest would be 'Time Out' (cover price ú2.20), which comes out weekly and has very comprehensive listings, for art, film, music, clubs, comedy, etc. It's on sale in all newsagents. For music listings also see the LMC website (http://www.l-m-c.org.uk), whose monthly calendar conveniently summarises all avant-related activity, and the gig listings in 'The Wire'. >4. other non-tourist points of interest? Once again, it depends on where your interests lie. London has so much on offer in the way of sightseeing and historical sites that you could fill a month trying to take it all in. However, the one thing you really should not leave town without seeing is the new Tate Modern art gallery on Bankside (ie. south side of the Thames) - it's well worth the visit. I would recommend picking up the Time Out London guide, a paperback book which retails for I think ú10.99, and which gives a very good overview of the city and all its attractions. It's also written by people who live here and actually care about the city, as opposed to the other guides (Let's Go, Rough Guide, Lonely Planet), which are written by whinging jobsworth backpackers only interested in the cheapest possible accommodation and food. In my opinion. Anyway - enjoy your time here... ===== www.info.net.nz/opprobrium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase <river_of_dogs@yahoo.com> Subject: video boots... Date: 27 Nov 2001 11:03:32 -0800 (PST) --0-1099492650-1006887812=:38936 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'd like to get VHS video bootlegs of Fantomas/Zorn/Ribot/Frisell related stuff... If anyone would sell me a show or two, it'd be greatly appreciated... -Theo Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. --0-1099492650-1006887812=:38936 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <P> I'd like to get VHS video bootlegs of Fantomas/Zorn/Ribot/Frisell related stuff... If anyone would sell me a show or two, it'd be greatly appreciated...</P> <P>-Theo</P> <P> </P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br> <a href="http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1">Yahoo! GeoCities</a> - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. --0-1099492650-1006887812=:38936-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Revue des Fossiles" <revuedesfossiles@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Yahowa 13 Date: 27 Nov 2001 11:49:23 -0800 One has to wonder if this is the 12" that Sky had been trying to convince Bill Shute to release in the mid-eighties with Sky and a woman chanting "14 Billion" over and over again? Regardless, the Yahowha 13CD box set on Captain Trip doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it claims, namely a "Yahowha Collection." Perhaps one day Captain Trip will dig deeper into the vaults of Saxon, Higher Key, Psycho, and New Rose labels vaults and successfully unearth the conversations (teachings) of Tom Yod, along with even more music of his disciples and release their findings in yet another 13CD box set sequel to "God & Hair" entitled "D-O-G = G-O-D." Wouldn't that be a hoot? In the meantime, those who are MP3 inclined can content themselves with the following. Father Yod - 12" - Yodship Suite 3 [16:28] members.aol.com/losafa/PastWeb.htm - RdF. >Though completeness was the intention, collector John Fitzpatrick >discovered yet another Yahowa LP called "Yodship Suite 3: In Praise Of Our >Father" that's not on the box set. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Re: video boots... Date: 27 Nov 2001 21:54:28 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1778E.16734900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI, I've also been wanting some videos for awhile. Please e-mail me also = off-list if you have some stuff for sale. Either NTSC or PAL. Thanks in advance, Efr=E9n del Valle ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Theo Klaase=20 To: Zorn List=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: video boots... I'd like to get VHS video bootlegs of Fantomas/Zorn/Ribot/Frisell = related stuff... If anyone would sell me a show or two, it'd be greatly = appreciated... -Theo ----- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1778E.16734900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>HI,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've also been wanting some videos for awhile.=20 Please e-mail me also off-list if you have some stuff for=20 sale.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Either NTSC or PAL.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:river_of_dogs@yahoo.com" = title=3Driver_of_dogs@yahoo.com>Theo=20 Klaase</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:zorn-list@lists.xmission.com"=20 title=3Dzorn-list@lists.xmission.com>Zorn List</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 27, = 2001 8:03=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> video boots...</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <P> I'd like to get VHS video bootlegs of=20 Fantomas/Zorn/Ribot/Frisell related stuff... If anyone would sell me a = show or=20 two, it'd be greatly appreciated...</P> <P>-Theo</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> <HR SIZE=3D1> <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A = href=3D"http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1">Yahoo!=20 GeoCities</A> - quick and easy web site hosting, just=20 $8.95/month.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1778E.16734900-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Ventural Abortion Date: 27 Nov 2001 15:31:23 -0800 http://www.newcreativemusic.com/contents/wordsworth/first_we.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: sam rivers Date: 27 Nov 2001 16:27:25 -0800 an absolute monster. what might have miles '60s quintet have been like if he'd kept rivers? 1. holland's "conference of the birds." that should be a crown in anybody's book. 2. everything everybody else mentioned. rick lopez rules. 3. rivers' "contrast" on ecm (1979). can't speak to availability, but this rivers-holland-george lewis-thurman barker quartet charms me to my knees. say what you will about manfred, i love hearing such a well-focused (and recorded) document of rivers' art. 4. rivers' "sizzle" on abc. again, there may be availability problems but i am enraptured by by sam's mid-70s fusion excursion with ted dunbar, holland, alschul and warren smith. the 1974 abc "crystals" big band blew my mind back when, but i must say i now prefer the previously mentioned "inspiration." also, "culmination" is drawn from the same session as "inspiration" although not quite so arresting.... "lazuli" (timeless, recorded 1989) has its funky charm too, tho not quite as rich as the above. a light, fusion-y session with electric guitar and bass. ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: sam rivers Date: 28 Nov 2001 17:19:27 -0800 > an absolute monster. what might have miles '60s quintet have been like if > he'd kept rivers? > or, for that matter, Joe Henderson? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peruvian Night Train" <manhog@home.com> Subject: PONGA tour dates fyi Date: 27 Nov 2001 17:34:03 -0800 PONGA tour dates: (Skerik, Dave Palmer, Wayne Horvitz, Bobby Previte) ------- 12/07/01 - Sit & Spin, Seattle, WA, USA 12/08/01 - Sit & Spin, Seattle, WA, USA info: http://www.sitandspin.net 12/10/01 - Yoshi's, Oakland, CA, USA info: http://www.yoshis.com 12/11/01 - Justice League, San Francisco, CA, USA 628 Divisadero St. (@ Hayes) ph: (415) 440-0409 ~ hotline: (415) 289-2038 12/13/01 - the Anza Club, Vancouver, BC, CANADA 12/14/01 - the Anza Club, Vancouver, BC, CANADA 3 W. 8th Ave. (@ Ontario) ph: (604) 876-7128 http://www.anzaclub.org (photos of the room!) $18 (+ service charge) at Black Swan, Highlife, Scratch, and Zulu Records. $22 at the door. 8pm showtimes. more info: (604) 879-4990 12/15/01 - Fez Ballroom, Portland, OR, USA info: http://segueproductions.com ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com> Subject: avant, experimental, free jazz, post punk even!! Date: 27 Nov 2001 17:31:40 -0800 hey there, this is a great list and i would like to be part of some more just like it. Does anyone have any good lists they could direct me to that deal with avant, experiemental, free jazz, post-punk, no wave, or noise? they can be artist or genre related. Thanks so much for exposing me to such great music!! carlos _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Matsumoto <ctm@sonic.net> Subject: Re: Four recommendations: Date: 27 Nov 2001 23:50:23 -0800 (PST) Back on 19 Nov 2001, Tom (Samerivertwice@aol.com) said: > 1) Stefan Winter -- The Little Trumpet. One of the JMT reissues, > this one features Tim Berne, Herb Robertson, Anthony Cox, Reggie > Nicholson, Bill frisell, Robin Eubanks, Warren Smith and Bob Stewart. > And, as the cover boasts, the Original Booklet [is] Included! yes yes yes!! The CDs full of nice jazz compositions with downtownish airs and of course a great set of players. But the story inside the booklet is practically worth the price by itself. "The Little Trumpet" is a childrens tale written by Stefan (for "Petra," who I'm guessing is his daughter), about a world where musical instruments have been outlawed, and a brave little trumpet must help set things right. If any U.S. readers remember "The Point," an animated TV special from about 25 years ago ... this story has the same heartwarming, poignant qualities. It would make a wonderful picture book or even a movie. As for the music, it's mildly swinging midtempo stuff, mostly easygoing but still a bit edgy. And it's got some nice free breaks, like the guitar-and-tuba solo that i'm listening to right now. -- Craig Matsumoto Jazz Director, KZSU-FM (Stanford University) jazz@kzsu.stanford.edu KZSU - 90.1 FM P.O. Box 20510 Stanford, Calif. 94309 +1-650-623-4839 http://kzsu.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: sam rivers Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:22:40 +0100 > say what you will about manfred, i love hearing such a well-focused (and > recorded) document of rivers' art. Mhm, I don't know the Rivers ECM-record, should be cool. Manfred Eicher, director and producer of ECM is responsible for over 700 records now, so I find it increasingly difficult to still point out at the 'wishy washy reverby new age'-music ECM is still mainly known for. In fact I have stopped this completely, and just listen to his Sclavis, Goebbels, Holland, Giuffre (1961 is an actual re-issue!), Barre Philips, Crispell, Italian Instabile Orchestra and so on. Young singer Susanne Abbuehl is a recent ECM discovery, she's playing with great unknown Dutch and Swiss musicians on her cd APRIL. If I want to rock out, I go somewhere else, but rather, turn to all those younger labels who give artists a chance who don't seem able to enter ECM: Winter&Winter, Between the Lines, A-Records/ Challenge or Runegrammofon. Remco Takken np Lol Coxhill & Veryan Weston: Boundless (1998, Emanem) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: avant, experimental, free jazz, post punk even!! Date: 28 Nov 2001 09:18:58 +0100 there┤s a list of lists: www.agoron.com/~msnyder/mailinglists.htm but a little bit outdated. Andreas np: Ornette Coleman - Opening The Caravan Of Dreams (Caravan Of Dreams) >From: "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com> > >hey there, this is a great list and i would like to be part of some more >just like it. Does anyone have any good lists they could direct me to that >deal with avant, experiemental, free jazz, post-punk, no wave, or noise? >they can be artist or genre related. Thanks so much for exposing me to >such >great music!! _________________________________________________________________ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Re: waits b e a c o n pictures Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:08:31 +0100 (MET) Speaking of Tom Waits - Does anyone recall ever hearing a recording of him singing _Silent Night_? I=B4ve got a wonderful new Xmas-sampladelica CD curated by Corporal Blossom, _A Mutated Christmas_, which contains a sample that sure sound like it. Thanks in advance, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de> Subject: Re: Fwd: mike patton projects Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:47:56 +0100 efrΘn del valle wrote: > > Both of FantomΓs albums are worth the money, specially > their first release, "Amenaza al Mundo". As someone > said, it has something from Naked City. Their music > works as fast-changing small cells. Not too long ago I'd asked the list about Fantomas' 1st album and it was recommended to me, also by comparing it to Naked City. While I do see the similarities now that I've bought it, I did feel it comes nowhere close to Torture Garden, e.g. I'd much rather recommend their 2nd album. To me, it sounds a lot better. (The 1st one also sounds a bit too much like the 2nd one, IMHO - but just not as good; they seem to be better at doing covers than writing original material...) > > > Mr. Bungle: buy them all! but specially "Disco > Volante", maybe more Zorn-list-related stuff there. Again, not too long ago I also recommended to someone to buy all Mr. Bungle releases. Now I must say that California has gotten on my tits. Disco Volante I also just find too much... it is interesting, but there is something lacking... (I really don't know why so many people on the list seem to love that album.) Their debut, entitled Mr. Bungle, is their very best, I think. Both other releases pale in comparison... My 2c, patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcel Cobussen" <cobussen@fhk.eur.nl> Subject: zorn and deconstruction Date: 28 Nov 2001 12:22:20 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_038B_01C17807.53971900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zorn-list, The last 5 years I've spent much of my time on writing a Ph.D. thesis on = Deconstruction and Music. One of the sections of this thesis is on Zorn = (especially Great Jewish Music: Burt Bacharach). The thesis is not a = book but a website: www.deconstructioninmusic.com. If you go to = 'interactive dissertation' and then to the Zorn section you can read and = hear what a possible connection between deconstruction and Zorn's music = could look/sound like. Hope you enjoy it!! Marcel Drs. M.A. Cobussen Erasmus University Rotterdam F.H.K.W. P.O. Box 1738 3000 DR Rotterdam The Netherlands tel. 010-4082474 (office) tel. 010-2800081 (home) fax 010-4089138 www.cobussen.com ------=_NextPart_000_038B_01C17807.53971900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dwindows-1252"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Dear Zorn-list,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The last 5 years I've spent much of my time on writing a Ph.D. = thesis on=20 Deconstruction and Music. One of the sections of this thesis is on Zorn=20 (especially Great Jewish Music: Burt Bacharach). The thesis is not a = book but a=20 website: <A=20 href=3D"http://www.deconstructioninmusic.com">www.deconstructioninmusic.c= om</A>.=20 If you go to 'interactive dissertation' and then to the Zorn section you = can=20 read and hear what a possible connection between deconstruction and = Zorn's=20 music could look/sound like.</DIV> <DIV>Hope you enjoy it!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Marcel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drs. M.A. Cobussen<BR>Erasmus University = Rotterdam<BR>F.H.K.W.<BR>P.O. Box=20 1738<BR>3000 DR Rotterdam<BR>The Netherlands</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>tel. 010-4082474 (office)<BR>tel. 010-2800081 (home)<BR>fax=20 010-4089138<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.cobussen.com">www.cobussen.com</A></DIV></BODY></HTML>= ------=_NextPart_000_038B_01C17807.53971900-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net> Subject: RE: Fwd: mike patton projects Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:03:58 -0400 >I'd much rather recommend their 2nd album. To me, >it sounds a lot >better. (The 1st one also sounds a bit too much >>like the 2nd one, IMHO - >but just not as good; they seem to be better at >>doing covers than >writing original material...) ---------------------------- I think the same thing about Fant⌠mas. I bought THE DIRECTOR'S CUT first, and loved it, then I bought the debut CD and it kinda dissapointed me. Also, I was the guy who asked some time ago for recommendations on Mr. Bungle, and I bought DISCO VOLANTE, everyone's favourite. And I have to admit it's a little too weird and crazy for me, but it's growing in me. I really don't know what to buy next, the debut or CALIFORNIA. Think I'll go with CALIFORNIA. Well, anyway, I hear FANT╘MAS are writing a new album of original material and I think I heard somewhere M. Patton was going to do some singing in it (like the 2nd album). Any info on this? Let's hope it's as good or better than THE DIRECTOR'S CUT. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. RADIOHEAD kid a - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Zorn at Miller Theatre Date: 28 Nov 2001 09:14:07 -0500 Just in case you haven't heard already... Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect Miller Theatre said: Join us tomorrow night for a Composer Portrait of John Zorn, starring Zorn himself on saxophone. Next week, there will be a Maison Francaise film (La B√che) and a Composer Portrait of James Dillon. See you at the Miller. Composer Portrait: John Zorn Thursday, November 29, 8:00pm 7:00 preconcert discussion with John Zorn One of the most exciting and consistently innovative composers at work in the U.S., John Zorn (b. 1953) returns to Miller for an evening of his concert works, including the second New York performance of his violin concerto, Contes des FΘes, runner-up for the Pulitzer last year. Absolute Ensemble bring its irrepressible energy and virtuosity to ZornÆs unforgettable music. Contes des FΘes (violin concerto) For your eyes only Angelus Novus Kol Nidre Tunes from the Masada songbook Absolute Ensemble Kristjan JΣrvi, conductor Jennifer Koh, violin special guest appearance: John Zorn, saxophone Dave Douglas, trumpet Greg Cohen, bass Kenny Wolleson, drums Tickets: $20 ($7 students with CUID) For tickets, call the box office at 212-854-7799 between noon and 6pm M-F, or visit millertheatre.com or ticketweb.com. The Miller Theatre is located on 116th St. and Broadway in Manhattan. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: Zorn at Miller Theatre Date: 28 Nov 2001 16:00:24 +0100 > special guest appearance: > John Zorn, saxophone > Dave Douglas, trumpet > Greg Cohen, bass > Kenny Wolleson, drums > So, this is supposed to be a classical concert, where you would expect 'Bar Kokhba/ Issachar/ Circle Maker' adaptations of Masada tunes. However, above is the full 1994 European Masada line-up, when Joey couldn't come over to tour. There's a German TV broadcast of this particular group, some dumbass lost the videocassette I had borrowed him. (for all you anoraks out there: I am not really sure it was '94 or '95 when Wollesen was subbing for Baron) Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Waits Silent Night Date: 28 Nov 2001 09:50:47 EST --part1_a3.1f92f244.293653c7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/28/01 4:09:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20 stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se writes: > Speaking of Tom Waits - Does anyone recall ever hearing a recording of him > singing _Silent Night_? I=B4ve got a wonderful new Xmas-sampladelica CD > curated by Corporal Blossom, _A Mutated Christmas_, which contains a sampl= e > that sure sound like it. Thanks in advance, Stephen >=20 I'm not positive, but this is possible. Although I don't have either, there=20 were at least two mid-80's promo only Christmas albums issued through Warner= =20 Brothers, that featured their associated artists doing Christmas songs and=20 greetings. Dale. --part1_a3.1f92f244.293653c7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" style=3D"BACKGRO= UND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG= =3D"0">In a message dated 11/28/01 4:09:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, stephen= .fruitman@idehist.umu.se writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" S= IZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Speaking of Tom Waits - Does an= yone recall ever hearing a recording of him<BR> singing _Silent Night_? I=B4ve got a wonderful new Xmas-sampladelica CD<BR> curated by Corporal Blossom, _A Mutated Christmas_, which contains a sample<= BR> that sure sound like it. Thanks in advance, Stephen<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0">I'm not positive, but t= his is possible. Although I don't have either, there were at least two mid-8= 0's promo only Christmas albums issued through Warner Brothers, that feature= d their associated artists doing Christmas songs and greetings.<BR> <BR> Dale.<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_a3.1f92f244.293653c7_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Waits Silent Night Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:01:08 EST --part1_28.1e75a920.29365634_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/28/01 9:51:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, TagYrIt@aol.co= m=20 writes: >=20 > >> Speaking of Tom Waits - Does anyone recall ever hearing a recording of=20 >> him >> singing _Silent Night_? I=B4ve got a wonderful new Xmas-sampladelica CD >> curated by Corporal Blossom, _A Mutated Christmas_, which contains a=20 >> sample >> that sure sound like it. Thanks in advance, Stephen >>=20 > I'm not positive, but this is possible. Although I don't have either, ther= e=20 > were at least two mid-80's promo only Christmas albums issued through=20 > Warner Brothers, that featured their associated artists doing Christmas=20 > songs and greetings. >=20 > Dale. >=20 It comes from: Children from 15 different countries sings together raising money to help=20 S.O.S children villages organization S.O.S Featuring Tom Waits Released 1989 - Electrola CDP 598 7929882 =20 It can also be found on "Tales From The Underground Vol. 1," a bootleg co llection of Tom Waits rarities. Cheers, Tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,=20 and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." --part1_28.1e75a920.29365634_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 11/28/01 9:51:38 AM Eastern Standar= d Time, TagYrIt@aol.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Speaking of Tom Waits - Does an= yone recall ever hearing a recording of him<BR> singing _Silent Night_? I=B4ve got a wonderful new Xmas-sampladelica CD<BR> curated by Corporal Blossom, _A Mutated Christmas_, which contains a sample<= BR> that sure sound like it. Thanks in advance, Stephen<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0">I'm not positive, but t= his is possible. Although I don't have either, there were at least two mid-8= 0's promo only Christmas albums issued through Warner Brothers, that feature= d their associated artists doing Christmas songs and greetings.<BR> <BR> Dale.<BR> </FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" S= IZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR= > <BR> It comes from:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Children from 15 different c= ountries sings together raising money to help S.O.S children villages organi= zation<BR> <BR> S.O.S Featuring Tom Waits<BR> <BR> Released 1989 - Electrola CDP 598 7929882 <BR> <BR> It can also be found on "Tales From The Underground Vol. 1," a bootleg colle= ction of Tom Waits rarities.<BR> <BR> Cheers,<BR> Tom<BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">____________________________= __________________________________________<BR> Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, a= nd enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT></HTML> --part1_28.1e75a920.29365634_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" <ricardoviseu@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: video boots... Date: 28 Nov 2001 15:44:05 +0000 > I'd like to get VHS video bootlegs of Fantomas/Zorn/Ribot/Frisell >related stuff... If anyone would sell me a show or two, it'd be greatly >appreciated... Hi! I have some videos on Pal! What have you got to trade? _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale jß. ╔ gratuito! http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" <ricardoviseu@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Moonraker Date: 28 Nov 2001 15:53:48 +0000 ---i thought it also has Agata (from Melt banana) >Apparently Buckethead was not part of Mike Patton's Moonraker, though I >remember someone posting about a Moonraker gig either this year or last, >where Buckethead played with them, holding a double-necked [touch] guitar, >one being bass, and one being guitar. If I recall correctly, Patton kept >calling Big B "bitch." _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale jß. ╔ gratuito! http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:56:47 -0600 (CST) I was recently told about a project that Mike Patton was doing with Dan the Automator. Does anyone know about this project? And I just recently picked up an album by The Avalanches. I believe they're from Australia. Does anybody have ninformation on them. From the album lining, I noticed they're massive sampling references and was wondering if the peeps had done anything else. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 28 Nov 2001 09:01:35 -0800 On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:56:47 -0600 (CST) kasra@ou.edu wrote: > > I was recently told about a project that Mike Patton was doing with Dan the > Automator. Does anyone know about this project? And I just recently picked up > an album by The Avalanches. I believe they're from Australia. Does anybody have > ninformation on them. From the album lining, I noticed they're massive sampling > references and was wondering if the peeps had done anything else. *** - MUSIC TO MAKE LOVE TO YOUR OLD LADY BY: Nathaniel Merriweather presents ... Lovage (Dan the Automator) Dan the Automator; Michael Patton; Jennifer Charles; etc. 2001 - 75 Ark (USA), 75052 (CD) It is a fairly sweet record, much smoother (possible?) than other projects by Dan the Automator. Great record to accompany a martini. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton <ahorton@vt.edu> Subject: RE: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 28 Nov 2001 12:42:54 -0500 >I was recently told about a project that Mike Patton was doing with Dan the >Automator. Does anyone know about this project? And I just recently picked up >an album by The Avalanches. I believe they're from Australia. Does anybody have >ninformation on them. From the album lining, I noticed they're massive sampling >references and was wondering if the peeps had done anything else. Boom Book Ignorant. The "Lovage" album is o.k. .... you'll probably dig it if you like Automator production and patton vocals. The girl singer (jennifer from Elysian Fields) has a great, seductive voice. The best track on the album is their cover of Berlin's "Sex (I'm a)", and it features the best moaning and groaning since Serge and Brigitte did "Je t'aime" :) The Avalanches record is, again, "o.k."- not good, not bad, but just decent. It's a good pop record that shifts between typical house and downtempo, but the samples are fun to spot. The whole mix, though, is just noisy..."too much going on" at any given time, if you will. I don't think the people have been involved in any other noteworthy stuff. andrdwewwe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net> Subject: RE: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 28 Nov 2001 14:38:12 -0400 I read somewhere that the Mike Patton / Dan the Automator collaboration is called PEEPING TOM and that it's Patton's commercial comeback (if you call FNM commercial). Anyway, they already have a contract with REPRISE RECORDS, so this is obviously a major label/commercial thing. I think I also read it sounded something like BECK!!! They're planning on releasing an album in mid 2002. If you look for Peeping Tom in Audiogalaxy.com, you'll find the demos that Patton did all by himself. It sounds very rough and I can't really say if I like it or not. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. FANT╘MAS - the director's cut - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Re: Fwd: mike patton projects Date: 28 Nov 2001 22:00:21 +0100 Hi Patrice and everyone, > Not too long ago I'd asked the list about Fantomas' 1st album and it was > recommended to me, also by comparing it to Naked City. While I do see > the similarities now that I've bought it, I did feel it comes nowhere > close to Torture Garden, e.g. It will definitely be hard for anyone to produce sthg like Torture Garden, won't it?. The supposed similarities are maybe more a simple reference than actual shared settings. > I'd much rather recommend their 2nd album. To me, it sounds a lot > better. (The 1st one also sounds a bit too much like the 2nd one, IMHO - > but just not as good; they seem to be better at doing covers than > writing original material...) I like the second one too, but I don't agree with any comparisons between both. I don't see a direct relation between the contents of "Amenaza..." and "The Director's Cut". Although this may seem obvious, I thought that the covers would be much more edgy but they seemed somehow "lazy" to me. I love the album, anyway, and it will appear in my "Best of 2001" list, that's for sure. > > > > > > Mr. Bungle: buy them all! but specially "Disco > > Volante", maybe more Zorn-list-related stuff there. > > Again, not too long ago I also recommended to someone to buy all Mr. > Bungle releases. > Now I must say that California has gotten on my tits. > Disco Volante I also just find too much... it is interesting, but there > is something lacking... (I really don't know why so many people on the > list seem to love that album.) > Their debut, entitled Mr. Bungle, is their very best, I think. Both > other releases pale in comparison... Their first album really shocked me. I had never heard such a thing for my taste then, but I think that their richest album (without being subjective, I think) is Disco Volante. It just never ends. The songs are extremely original, the production is amazing, and the influences/musics are so varied that the listener can appreciate the results with a wider range of possibilities. I finally grew up tired of "California" (OK, I listened to it 1000 times), which never happened with Disco. However, I would remove some portions of the metal stuff, but an impressive album all in all. > My 2c, > patRice > > My other 2c. All the best, EfrΘn del Valle n.p: Henry Threadgill "Spirit of Nuff...Nuff" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 29 Nov 2001 10:50:03 +1100 > I read somewhere that the Mike Patton / Dan the Automator collaboration is > called PEEPING TOM and that it's Patton's commercial comeback (if you call > FNM commercial). Anyway, they already have a contract with REPRISE RECORDS, > so this is obviously a major label/commercial thing. I think I also read it > sounded something like BECK!!! They're planning on releasing an album in > mid 2002. I don't think that the Dan the Automator project is what was being named Peeping Tom - Patton's 'collaboration' with him is more him than Patton, and it also features Jennifer Charles on vocals. I believe it is out already also... Peeping Tom is Patton's own project which is kind of poppy with a weird slant. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joslyn Layne" <joslay@allmusic.com> Subject: RE: The Point Date: 28 Nov 2001 19:11:44 -0500 craig matsumoto wrote: "If any U.S. readers remember "The Point," an animated TV special from about 25 years ago ... this story has the same heartwarming, poignant qualities. It would make a wonderful picture book or even a movie." The Point is based on a wonderful album of the same name (for kids, but adults, too) by Harry Nilsson. i love it. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=Ayc7uakok5m3m - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allan Sutherland <ayac@sannet.ne.jp> Subject: John Butcher Tours of USA Date: 29 Nov 2001 09:19:56 +0900 Apologies for any cross postings, but I would like to pass on this information for the lucky folks in the US. Creative saxophonist John Butcher is to tour the US from the end of this month. Sorry I do not know the personnel of the concerts. Below is what Cadence has to say of his musicianship, along with the tour details. Cheers, Allan. CADENCE (USA) "London and Cologne is dynamic music that probably had the audience at these concerts sitting on the edge of their seats." CADENCE (USA) "John Butcher's solo was revelatory, his tenor an ensemble in itself - held aloft by circular breathing, the multiple trills and multiphonics added and subtracted strata from a twisting complex of voices with astounding control, interspersed with occasional lyrical irruptions." Tour Dates Wednesday, Nov 28 - St. Louis Workshop, Steinberg Auditorium, Washington University Gallery of Art. 2pm 314-995-4963. 8:00pm, Focal Point, 2720 Sutton. 314-995-4963 Thursday, Nov 29 - Chicago, IL Hot House, 31 E. Balbo, between State & Wabash Friday, Nov 30 - Madison, WI Venue: Wendy Cooper Gallery, 824 E. Johnson, 8:00PM Saturday, Dec 1 - Ann Arbor, MI Venue: Kerrytown Concert House, 415 N. Fourth Ave. (734) 769-7791 Sunday, Dec 2 - Grand Rapids, MI Lazaro Vega, Blue Lake Public Radio, 300 East Crystal Lake Road, Twin Lake . Monday, December 3rd - Bloomington, Indiana Workshop at University of Indiana, Venue; Monroe County Historical Society, 6th and Washington (southeast corner). 8:00pm Tuesday, December 4th - Louisville Wednesday, December 5th - Winston-Salem Project Space 211 (a.k.a. Where House), 211 E. Third Street, Thursday, December 6th - Chapel Hill Venue: Skylight Exchange is at 405 1/2 Rosemary St, 9 pm Friday, December 7th - Baltimore Venue: Red Room, 425 E. 31st street, phone 410 243 6888 - 8.30pm Saturday, December 8 - Boston Institute of Contemporary Arts Theater, 955 Boylston St. Sunday, Dec 9 - Washington 9th - George Washington University, Phillips Hall, Room B120 - 8pm Tuesday, December 11 - New York Experimental Intermedia, 224 Centre Street at Grand, Third Floor - 9pm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "doron galili" <doronjgalili@hotmail.com> Subject: fujii and feldman question Date: 29 Nov 2001 00:50:55 hello i was wondering if anyone on the list can tell anything about the fujii and feldman album "april shower". any reviews? recommendations? or do you know where can i buy or order it? (it seems amazon.com do not sell it) many thanks! doron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: fujii and feldman question Date: 28 Nov 2001 20:24:15 -0500 It's quite good... a combination of duets and solos. My colleague Marc Chenard has a review of it coming up in Coda magazine, though I'm not sure which issue. Not sure where it's available, but it's on EWE. James Hale doron galili wrote: > hello > i was wondering if anyone on the list can tell anything about the fujii and > feldman album "april shower". any reviews? recommendations? or do you know > where can i buy or order it? (it seems amazon.com do not sell it) > many thanks! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." <parksplace@hotmail.com> Subject: Patton Date: 28 Nov 2001 22:26:44 -0500 There is a nice article on Mike Patton on www.cmj.com. It's not the greatest, but it is right off of the front page. It's all about what Mr. Patton has been up to recently. Talks about Tomahawk, Fantomas, Peeping Tom, and his "acting career." By the way, what do those of you who have seen Tomahawk in concert think? I enjoyed the concert much more than the album. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jmcazurin <mikah@toast.net> Subject: Re: where to go in london? Date: 29 Nov 2001 01:32:37 -0500 Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions about London! All your suggestions look very helpful. I'm looking forward to checking out all the places and publications you mentioned. Again, thanks very much. Mikah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: About Grains of Paradise Date: 29 Nov 2001 09:43:37 +0100 (CET) Hi, Last week someone recommended Erik Frielander's "Grains of Paradise". I'd like to provide my 2 cents on that release. Stating that it is a bad record would be absolutely false. However, the lack of originality made me forget about it really quick. Grains is certainly for Bar Kokhba fans (which I am) but there is something in it that makes the music somehow predictable. The melodies are extremely pompous, and despite it manages to stirr up something, Friedlander could probably take more advantage of such a good ensemble. BTW, although it is presented as cello, percussion, guitar, bass and ten violins, there are actually 3 only(?). Don't misunderstand me, it's a good record, but don't expect something new. Just beautiful music (which is a lot). Just an opinion. Best, EfrΘn del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ari <ari.hoste@skynet.be> Subject: Re: fujii and feldman question Date: 29 Nov 2001 10:11:17 +0100 >> i was wondering if anyone on the list can tell anything about the fujii and >> feldman album "april shower". any reviews? recommendations? or do you know >> where can i buy or order it? (it seems amazon.com do not sell it) > It's quite good... a combination of duets and solos. > My colleague Marc Chenard has a review of it coming up in Coda magazine, > though I'm not sure which issue. The record has some piano solo's and some piano violin duo's. But it has also a few duo's "Piano + Piano". Does that mean Satoko Fujii's overdubbing herself? Or is Feldman a great "hole-and-corner" pianist? Unfortunately there's no answer in the liner notes... Ari np: Aihiyo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hywel Davies <hywel99@yahoo.com> Subject: paul bley Date: 29 Nov 2001 02:58:36 -0800 (PST) what happened to the Paul Bley discog. that was online? seems to have vanished...(i can't recall what the url was, but nothing shows up when i search). hywel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Felix" <davidfelix@netcabo.pt> Subject: Re: Rat Pack of Radicalisms Date: 29 Nov 2001 11:09:08 -0000 Esta Θ uma mensagem com vßrias partes em formato MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C178C6.43EF52A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, there is a TV show in Portugal that's called "Potugal = Radical". You know what it's about? Extreme sports. In my country, = extreme sports, like skating and surfing and scaling and gliding, etc., = are known as radical sports. "radical" is a word we associate with it's = true meaning of extreme, out of the norm, off the centre. And that = includes politically. We talk about left wing radicals (ecoterrorists = for example) and right wing radicals. I think this discussion will lead = to nowhere, because it deals with people's understanding of the word. I = stick with the dictionary "official" definition, because that's the way = we use it around here. So the Radical Jewish Series has a logical name because it presents = jewish inspired music in a way most people do not immediately associate = with (some albuns, at least). ~davidf=E9lix ----- Original Message -----=20 From: duncan youngerman=20 To: Joseph Zitt ; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Rat Pack of Radicalisms =20 > Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I = admit, because it=20 > is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the = invention of the idea=20 > of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time = of older religions.=20 Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has = little to do=20 with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the = Messiah=20 are also the most conservative. What was groundbreaking 2500 years ago can become reactionary dogma in = the light of all that it has generated.=20 =20 > Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible = misunderstandings (including that=20 > outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means = "extremist" or "fanatic",=20 > and not "leftist")...=20 Well, no. Let me just speak for french and german, in which both me and my wife = are fluent natives.=20 DY.=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C178C6.43EF52A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Actually, there is a TV show in = Portugal that's=20 called "Potugal Radical". You know what it's about? Extreme sports. In = my=20 country, extreme sports, like skating and surfing and scaling and = gliding, etc.,=20 are known as radical sports. "radical" is a word we associate with it's = true=20 meaning of extreme, out of the norm, off the centre. And that includes=20 politically. We talk about left wing radicals (ecoterrorists = for=20 example) and right wing radicals. I think this discussion will = lead to=20 nowhere, because it deals with people's understanding of the word. I = stick with=20 the dictionary "official" definition, because that's the way we use = it=20 around here.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So the Radical Jewish Series has a = logical name=20 because it presents jewish inspired music in a way most people do = not=20 immediately associate with (some albuns, at least).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>~davidf=E9lix</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dy-man@wanadoo.fr href=3D"mailto:y-man@wanadoo.fr">duncan = youngerman</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Djzitt@metatronpress.com=20 href=3D"mailto:jzitt@metatronpress.com">Joseph Zitt</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dzorn-list@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:zorn-list@lists.xmission.com">zorn-list@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 20, = 2001 7:12=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Rat Pack of=20 Radicalisms</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> <I></I>=20 <P><I>> Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is = plausible,=20 I admit, because it</I> <BR><I>> is precisely the jewish concept = of=20 messaianism which lead to the invention of the idea</I> <BR><I>> = of=20 Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of = older=20 religions.</I><I></I>=20 <P><I>Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional = thought has=20 little to do</I> <BR><I>with progress -- in fact the groups most = tied into=20 the idea of the Messiah</I> <BR><I>are also the most=20 conservative.</I></P></BLOCKQUOTE>What was groundbreaking 2500 years = ago can=20 become reactionary dogma in the light of all that it has generated.=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><I></I> <I></I>=20 <P><I>> Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible=20 misunderstandings (including that</I> <BR><I>> outside of = anglo-saxon=20 culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "fanatic",</I>=20 <BR><I>> and not "leftist")...</I><I></I>=20 <P><I>Well, no.</I></P></BLOCKQUOTE>Let me just speak for french and = german,=20 in which both me and my wife are fluent natives.=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">DY.=20 <P>-</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C178C6.43EF52A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl> Subject: Odp: sam rivers Date: 29 Nov 2001 12:23:07 +0100 Hey, we got all we could ever ask for on filles - silent way - BB... P.S My last post sent through a modem - tommorow i'll have a 512 Kbps connection installed! > an absolute monster. what might have miles '60s quintet have been like if > > he'd kept rivers? > > > or, for that matter, Joe Henderson? > > skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ripleyjames@home.com Subject: Re: fujii and feldman question Date: 29 Nov 2001 07:34:25 -0600 Yep, the piano + piano is Satoko Fujii playing a duet with herself ala Bill Evan's Conversations With Myself. The tracks with Mark Feldman are actually from a different session. Since someone asked, it is available from cadencebuilding.com or vergemusic.com. If you still have problems let me know, there are other ways to get it. It's one of my favorite CDs of the year... James >The record has some piano solo's and some piano violin duo's. But it has >also a few duo's "Piano + Piano". Does that mean Satoko Fujii's overdubbing >herself? Or is Feldman a great "hole-and-corner" pianist? Unfortunately >there's no answer in the liner notes... > >Ari > >np: Aihiyo > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Re: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 29 Nov 2001 14:29:12 +0100 Hi, I'm listening to that Cd right now. It sounds good. Nothing specially original or Zorn-list related at all but it's just fine. Patton & Charles are both superb on vocals, as usual. The production is good, but too many hip-hop bases for my taste. I'm not sure whether this is due to Patton fanatism, but I'm enjoying the album. Don't expect anything out of this earth, anyway. We'll have to wait for the next Fant⌠mas. In any case, this "music to make love to your old lady by", might be helpful! (if I had one) I don't think that Peeping Tom hit the streets yet. I searched for that record through several websites and no news. As far as I know, it's Patton's pop project. If Peeping's pop is like that of "California", it's more than welcome. Best, EfrΘn del Valle _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Mike Patton and Dan The Automator Date: 30 Nov 2001 00:46:19 +1100 > I don't think that Peeping Tom hit the streets yet. I searched for that > record through several websites and no news. As far as I know, it's Patton's > pop project. If Peeping's pop is like that of "California", it's more than > welcome. From the little of the demos that leaked out, I don't think it's going to be quite like "California" - it sounds like it's more his take on the modern pop scene - like Bjork or Beck, stuff like that, but obviously a bit quirkier... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <freequeen@hotmail.com> Subject: London, Paris, Tokyo and other destinations Date: 29 Nov 2001 11:22:36 -0500 Hello everyone worldwide, Personally, I wouldn't mind if the responses to travel questions was posted on the list, if Mike Rizzi & others don't. This list is such a resource for that sort of thing, I've created a new folder for it. And it is usually musically related, non? i.e. record stores, concerts, etc. Ya know, we could all collaborate and write a book on it - The 2001 Zorn List Travel Guide...I bet it'd be a HOT seller;) Ajda the Turkish Queen http://mp3.com/turkishqueen http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge http://drawbridge.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: you are #6 Date: 30 Nov 2001 08:38:54 -0800 I was wondering if anyone besides me has picked up the new Don Byron disc, YOU ARE #6? Also, are the three new Uri discs out yet? Have not seen them for sale anywhere, but this is LA, where the avant-garde section is dangerously understocked as a rule. skip h np: sun ra -- we travel the spaceways - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" <ricardoviseu@hotmail.com> Subject: TENKO albums PLEASEEE Date: 29 Nov 2001 17:56:20 +0000 Hi! Does anyone has tenkos albums: "slope - gradual disapearance" "dragon blue" (NOTE:not the avant album) I'm interested in buying even a cdr copy or trading (I have some rare zornstuff...) _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale jß. ╔ gratuito! http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: mmw - e l e c t r i c t o n i c [nzc] Date: 29 Nov 2001 11:45:39 -0800 (PST) So I special ordered the mmw live electric tonic web release, it is from 07.04.98 during tonic's first curated music series [by zorn] Ah, the good old days when tonic didnt serve alcohol, no ac, I dont think they really had a stage either. I was at the gig and remembered liking it, so I got the album. Well, tastes change over time and exposure, the whole disc is mostly improvised which is nice. Some of the developments are really fun, there is a blend of mmw style outness and their gratifying grooves, it flows nicely. The sound is good, not as rich as the acoustic tonic album, it still sounds like tonic to me. I feel like billy martin was a little rusty, but he still delivers a decent laid back punch now and then. This live album brings up some associations with Farmer's Reserve [now if you were an mmw dork like me at one time, you picked this up] There are similar textural colorings and musical conversations happening. Overall its a fun listen but nothing extraordinary, if you are on top of all the mmw you might want to pick it up. Its also a nice piece of tonic history. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com> Subject: 1st t onic e x p e r i e n c e [nzc] Date: 29 Nov 2001 11:52:18 -0800 (PST) Related to my last post, getting home sick for things nyc, tonic being a huge part of that. I was wondering what was the first downtown music gig at tonic? I remember seeing brad shepik and the commuters at tonic. Most of the people I brought left due to the non-alcoholic atmosphere. On the shepik and the commuters tip, they used to play at the bell cafe, now the bell closed a year ago, anyone know what ended up happening over there? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert <roballaert@mac.com> Subject: Re: you are #6 Date: 29 Nov 2001 21:05:27 +0100 do you like it ? Skip Heller wrote: > YOU ARE #6 greetings, Rob @ risk np: Angel Song - Kenny Wheeler - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: you are #6 Date: 30 Nov 2001 12:28:07 -0800 > do you like it ? > > Skip Heller wrote: > >> YOU ARE #6 > > greetings, > Rob @ risk > np: Angel Song - Kenny Wheeler > > > - > I'm having a problem getting into this one, although the last Mfor6 is my fav Byron record to date. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "francesco martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it> Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? Date: 29 Nov 2001 21:41:22 +0100 > I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege > bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly > appreciated. The fact that the album title is in turkish gives a wholly different meaning to the name of the group (about which I do not know anything) Francesco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: London, Paris, Tokyo and other destinations Date: 29 Nov 2001 15:13:02 -0800 (PST) >Personally, I wouldn't mind if the responses to travel questions was posted >on the list, if Mike Rizzi & others don't. This list is such a resource for I don't mind, if the list members don't mind. Speaking of, I'll be in NYC Dec. 13-20 to see my brother perform at the Brooklyn Acadmy of Music (14th, 16th and 18th for those that care)...and I'll be at the Zorn Tonic show on the 15th if'n anyone from the list wants to say hello. I'll be the dude with the california blue hair. Any other good shows/movies/gallery exhibits I should know about? >Ya know, we could all collaborate and write a book on it - The 2001 Zorn >List Travel Guide...I bet it'd be a HOT seller;) I'm sure Steve Smith will volunteer to do that. ;) mike rizzi@browbeat.com ----- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." -- Hunter S. Thompson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Thomas" <jgthomas@nortelnetworks.com> Subject: RE: Paul Bley discography Date: 29 Nov 2001 18:24:37 -0600 > From: Hywel Davies <hywel99@yahoo.com> > Subject: paul bley > > what happened to the Paul Bley discog. that was > online? seems to have vanished...(i can't recall what > the url was, but nothing shows up when i search). > hywel > Not sure which URL you are referring to but the IAI website www.improvart.com for Bley's discography is now pointing to Henk Kluck's excellent discography in book form, _Bley Play_. If you need an online fix :), I did find a short one focusing on Bley's playing of Annette Peacock pieces that is very nice: www.geocities.com/zoom14st/pb/disc.html. Boy do they ever need to reissue the album _Mr. Joy_... :( John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: zorn and deconstruction Date: 30 Nov 2001 00:47:53 +0000 >From: "Marcel Cobussen" <cobussen@fhk.eur.nl> >Subject: zorn and deconstruction >Dear Zorn-list, > >The last 5 years I've spent much of my time on writing a Ph.D. thesis on = >Deconstruction and Music. One of the sections of this thesis is on Zorn = >(especially Great Jewish Music: Burt Bacharach). The thesis is not a = >book but a website: www.deconstructioninmusic.com. If you go to = >'interactive dissertation' and then to the Zorn section you can read and = >hear what a possible connection between deconstruction and Zorn's music = >could look/sound like. >Hope you enjoy it!! I do enjoy it, and I'm surprised (I mean I'm not surprised) that no one has bothered to congratulate you yet on your site. It's a nice effort to find common ground between some music we appreciate and some of the most important philosophy to emerge in the last forty years. Good work, and I look forward to digging into your text further. I would hope though that the project could one day see book form. I see your photo with Zorn, so that must mean that he endorsed your efforts as well. So much for the some of the crap that goes flying around this list about that. And the venerable old man Derrida looks even older than I realized. He's been writing about death a lot lately. He's preparing himself. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert <roballaert@mac.com> Subject: Re: you are #6 Date: 29 Nov 2001 21:05:27 +0100 do you like it ? Skip Heller wrote: > YOU ARE #6 greetings, Rob @ risk np: Angel Song - Kenny Wheeler - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de> Subject: David Gould / New COBRA Release Date: 30 Nov 2001 09:50:17 +0100 Some time in October (!) "Neil H. Enet" wrote: > >From the upcoming releases: > > "David Gould: Adonai in Dub > A founding member of the popular rock group John BrownÆs Body, David Gould > has been fascinated with the spiritual connections between Roots Reggae and > Judaism for years. Adonai in Dub is his fascinating response. Traditional > Hebrew prayers beautifully performed in GouldÆs inspiring ska arrangements, > are deconstructed for the Tzadik Radical Jewish Series by dub master Jamie > Saft into an entirely new universe of space dub noise. Extreme dub meets the > Jewish tradition in this exciting meeting of three worlds. Shlomo Carlebach > via Sun Ra and King Tubby. Coming in November." > > Fans of Jamie Saft's Sovlanut might find this very entertaining. > > Neil H. Enet So - has anyone heard this release? Any comments / reviews? Would be very much appreciated! Just checked the upcoming releases on Tzadik.com. Yipee - we're getting another recording of a Cobra performance... ;-) patRice np: Republica, Republica nr: Ali G, Da Gospel According To Ali G. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <papagian@nat.vu.nl> Subject: dutch impro Date: 30 Nov 2001 13:50:23 +0100 (MET) hi for those interested in the dutch free scene as expressed primarily by the amsterdamers, on the 9th of December at the Felix Meritis in Amsterdam, a festival takes place with participation of a large number of groups and players, like Eric Boeren quartet, Tobias Delius quartet, Available Jelly. From what I understood there will also be spontaneous improvisation groupings. It is scheduled from 15:00 to 23:00. The felix meritis site doent list it yet so I have no deeper information. Sounds exciting though. manolis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl> Subject: Re: dutch impro Date: 30 Nov 2001 17:16:21 +0100 > hi > > for those interested in the dutch free scene as expressed primarily by > the amsterdamers, Oops, let's stop here for a moment. Please visit: Paradox theatre, Tilburg (great eclectic festival, all week beginning at Christmas eve called: Stranger than Para...noia) Worm, Rotterdam Lantaren/ Venster, Rotterdam Flora Theater, Delft Sjuhuis, Utrecht (improv & world festival on dec 19) Grand Theatre, Groningen (jazz & improv festival on dec 23) Theaterwerkplaats, Apeldoorn Muziekcentrum 's Hertogenbosch Amsterdam is cool, though... In good spirit, Remco Takken, Zwolle, the Netherlands - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: January Tzadiks Date: 30 Nov 2001 22:49:18 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C179F1.3E7AD0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'd encourage everyone to check the January tzadik releases. Most of = them absolutely exciting: Bobby Previte, Roberto Rodr=EDguez, Susie = Ibarra, Steve Beresford, John Zorn's Cobra, ... What else can you ask = for? A good beginning for 2002, isn't it. BTW, maybe someone knows why Roberto Rodr=EDguez' release appears under = the Radical Jewish Series (any reasons beyond the music itself, I mean). Best, Efr=E9n del Valle n.p: Mark Helias' "Open Loose" (Enja). Just amazing!! ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C179F1.3E7AD0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'd encourage everyone to check the January tzadik = releases.=20 Most of them absolutely exciting: Bobby Previte, Roberto Rodr=EDguez, = Susie=20 Ibarra, Steve Beresford, John Zorn's Cobra, ... What else can you ask = for? A=20 good beginning for 2002, isn't it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>BTW, maybe someone knows why Roberto Rodr=EDguez' = release=20 appears under the Radical Jewish Series (any reasons beyond the music = itself, I=20 mean).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Best,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>n.p: Mark Helias' "Open Loose" (Enja). Just=20 amazing!!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C179F1.3E7AD0C0-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: jason lescalleet Date: 30 Nov 2001 18:53:58 -0500 Hi, I've been enjoying Jon's release of Greg Kelley and Jason Lescalleet a lot lately, and it makes me wonder about some of these individual's other releases. I've got one of the nmperign records, which I remember not being too excited about, but I'd like to hear more about their other projects, especially Lescalleet. TIA. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mathieu Belanger <mathieu.belanger@UMontreal.CA> Subject: Re: jason lescalleet Date: 30 Nov 2001 22:48:27 -0500 Hello, >I've been enjoying Jon's release of Greg Kelley and Jason Lescalleet a lot >lately, and it makes me wonder about some of these individual's other >releases. I've got one of the nmperign records, which I remember not being >too excited about, but I'd like to hear more about their other projects, >especially Lescalleet. I don't know much about Lescalleet either, but I can strongly suggest his album with John Hudak on Intransitive Recordings. The title is _Figure 2_ and it's really good. You'll find the Intransitive website at: http://www.intransitiverecords.com Hope it helps, Mathieu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: the muff <andreit@geocities.com> Subject: Newbie question Date: 30 Nov 2001 23:45:29 -0500 hey all. I recently discovered John Zorn's genius talent through Xu Feng, which was quite a challenging work to digest. I moved on to Masada and Naked City, and found Xu Feng to be quite enjoyable. My question is, what's the verdict on Xu Feng? How do people listen to it and analyse it? I've had no trouble playing and enjoying any of the Masada cds, yet I cannot go through more than half of the Xu Feng album without being distracted. Do hard-core ZOrn fans think it's one of his best?? thanks, the muff -