I'd like to encourage everyone on the list to examine this album closely... Jim Black's "Alasnoaxis"... It's a monu-mental testimony to the dark, underground future of jazz.... Absolutely stunning...! Absolutely amazing...
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<P> I'd like to encourage everyone on the list to examine this album closely... Jim Black's "Alasnoaxis"... It's a monu-mental testimony to the dark, underground future of jazz.... Absolutely stunning...! Absolutely amazing...</P><BR>
<P> </P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
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>How in the world is Rhino going to improve upon the Ryko series is >what I'm wondering? Two new bonus tracks barely warrant a $5
Maybe the new editions won't be an improvement but assuming the Ryko versions go out of print then that won't matter (except to collectors). If you want "Armed Forces" then Rhino is the only game in town (or at least the US).
<P>>How 'bout it's more interesting than *any * music of<BR>>Mike Patton?<BR><BR>>Top 10s change with the years, but let me note three<BR>>sessions which have stood the test of time and deserve<BR>>to be in *every* thinking music person's collection.<BR>>Very simple:<BR><BR>>Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus (Candid)<BR>>The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady - Charles Mingus (Impulse!)<BR>>Mingus Ah Um -- Charles Mingus(Columbia)</P>
<P>how 'bout, i have all these Mingus albums, and I love them, and have listened to them over and over (more the first two then the third, and also Pithecanthropus .... and several others), AND I have a bunch of stuff Patton is on, and I love that too?? I certainly don't worship Patton, and the discussions of him here (or elsewhere) aren't generally all that interesting, but I should say that plenty of his music would at least qualify as "more interesting" than a lot of people's top ten lists. especially top ten lists that don't mention albums recorded in the last twenty years.</P>
<P>i don't see why "jazz" and "metal" or "rock" have to be mutually exclusive. then again, i doubt that the people making these dismissive statements have actually heard more than a few minutes (seconds??) of the music they are dismissing, so why even bother trying to reason with them??? arrggh. for that, i apologize, people.</P>
<P>on with your day,</P>
<P>wy</P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
This really is almost impossible to do, but here's a shot at something (maybe just a list of the things that I wish I had time to listen to right now):
London Jazz Composer's Orchestra: ??? (sorry, can't decide which one, maybe Double Trouble)
Braxton: Willisau (which I'll count as one, not four)
Masaoka/Robair/Nunn: Crepuscular Music
Randy Weston: The Spirits of our Ancestors
Mingus: Presents Mingus
Magic Sam: West Side Soul
Clash: London Calling
John Butcher: Fixations (14) (maybe I haven't had enough time to completely digest it, but it sounded pretty damn good so far)
Bailey/Prevost: Ore (same disclaimer as above)
Ganelin Trio: Poco a Poco
AMM: Newfoundland (or...)
That's 11, but if I don't stop now I'll go to at least 50 that I consider indispensible.
Dan
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Subject: Re: Bonzo dog dooh da was: Odp: Odp: cant do 10
Date: 01 Mar 2001 16:37:47 -0500
Never thought I'd see a discussion on the Bonzos here but cheers!
Their first one,Gorilla, is sublimely, insane fun with some bizarre covers of standards (Sound of Music, Cool Brittania, etc.). If you like the debut, you
should get The Doughnuts in Grannys Greenhouse too.
I can't really speak for Thurston Moore's non-SY stuff, as I've only heard Goodbye 20th Century, but to dismiss Patton as a rich kid who doesn't know how to operate his equipment seems like sour grapes to me. A brief listen to his solo albums and to Fantomas should tell anyone that he at least knows how to use what he has. Also, to say that these 'rock/experimental' guys shouldn't be playing festivals, or that they should stick to what they know best, simply because you don't like their music, seems unbelievably snobbish. Just because a composer/musician chooses to work in one 'genre' does not automatically qualify him as more authentic or qualified than someone 'encroaching' from elsewhere. In fact, it just as often could smack of aesthetic tunnel-vision, unfortunately fairly common.
I fall a bit short of Patton-worshiping myself, but I like his music a lot. I happen to think that his music has more instinctive intelligence and heart than about 50% of the music discussed on this list, actually.
('IMHO')
Not-to-mention that their transform-everything-to-gold status is most likely foisted upon them by other people, as are the categories and genre names that those people use top describe their music.
-Matt Mitchell
>
> That said, I wish fewer people like Patton and
> Thurston Moore were playing "experimental" festivals
> like FIMAV to open up space for those musicians some
> of us think are bringing more to the soundscape.
>>Same here... I am sure that Patton and Moore are genuine lovers of classical
contemporary music and other on the fringe genres, but their attempts (Patton
with classical contemporary, and Moore with improv) are, IMHO, quite
disappointing. They proceed with a single-minded attitude which is miles away
from the true innovators of the genres. It is as if they caught the spirit
but failed to see the crafmanship and the vision. They remind me people who
talk about savant things at the tea party level (usually missing what is
really important).
Not to mention their "transform-to-gold-anything-they-touch" status which
is quite annoying.
Maybe we should reassure them that they can still be decent human beings
In a message dated 03/01/2001 4:21:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shkin@shkin.com writes:
> I saw it on eBay once and was really surprised that it is so
> expensive. The thing is that I have it but... it is in PAL (European)
> standard, so there is no way to watch it here in New York. I hope to
> find it some day though, or I will just make a copy somewhere.
>
>
Luckily, I bought mine (near mint, I'm sure nobody in this small area even
knows who Tom W. is) for five bucks from a video store that was closing down.
Also found a decent copy of Koyaanisqatsi which is rare as well with a great
soundtrack by Phillip Glass. I'd copy it for you if I had two VCR's, though
I don't even watch it anymore. I suppose we could work out a trade if you
really want it that bad.
Mike
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 03/01/2001 4:21:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<BR>shkin@shkin.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I saw it on eBay once and was really surprised that it is so
<BR>expensive. The thing is that I have it but... it is in PAL (European)
<BR>standard, so there is no way to watch it here in New York. I hope to
<BR>find it some day though, or I will just make a copy somewhere.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Luckily, I bought mine (near mint, I'm sure nobody in this small area even
<BR>knows who Tom W. is) for five bucks from a video store that was closing down.
<BR> Also found a decent copy of Koyaanisqatsi which is rare as well with a great
<BR>soundtrack by Phillip Glass. I'd copy it for you if I had two VCR's, though
<BR>I don't even watch it anymore. I suppose we could work out a trade if you
I just joined the list and I see everyone's making a list of favourite albums. This looks like fun, so here's mine (sorry if it's too late.) Note, I'm 17 so this is no definite list, just the stuff I listen to most at the moment.
1. Disco Volante - Mr. Bungle
2. Come To Daddy - Aphex Twin
3. The Velvet Underground And Nico - self titled, the one with Warhol's banana on the front
4. Godard/Spillane - John Zorn
5. Rubber Soul - The Beatles
6. Rage Against The Machine - self titled
7. Thelonious Monk - Greatest Hits (a budget-buy type of CD that is really good)
8. Film Musik - Peter Thomas Sound Orchestr
9. Damaged - Black Flag
10. Guitar Music Vol. 1 - Leo Brouwer
That's it! That was fun.
Later,
Cameron.
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I just joined the list and I see everyone's making a list of favourite albums. This looks like fun, so here's mine (sorry if it's too late.) Note, I'm 17 so this is no definite list, just the stuff I listen to most at the moment.
1. Disco Volante - Mr. Bungle
2. Come To Daddy - Aphex Twin
3. The Velvet Underground And Nico - self titled, the one with Warhol's banana on the front
4. Godard/Spillane - John Zorn
5. Rubber Soul - The Beatles
6. Rage Against The Machine - self titled
7. Thelonious Monk - Greatest Hits (a budget-buy type of CD that is really good)
8. Film Musik - Peter Thomas Sound Orchestr
9. Damaged - Black Flag
10. Guitar Music Vol. 1 - Leo Brouwer
That's it! That was fun.
Later,
Cameron.
Do you hate clowns? Get Free Email & Free Websites at http://www.ihateclowns.com
Buy Anti-Clown, Mugs, and Mousepads at http://www.cafepress.com/ihateclowns
Someone finally mentions Yoko Ono! I'm surprised she isn't discussed here that often to be honest. Fly, and Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band, are simply brilliant, imho.
Can anyone recommend any good Gospel music? Something that I've been putting aside for awhile, as I know nothing about this genre, or what is going on in it.
In a message dated 3/3/01 11:51:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
DvdBelkin@aol.com writes:
> I'm not sure what the criteria for excluding someone like Bley is, but I
> would (also) include Lenny Tristano, Dodo Marmarosa, Mary Lou Williams
> (pre-
>
Professor Longhair was my first thought too, but I thought he might have been
a little too obscure for this list. Thank you for mentioning this.
Dale.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#8080c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 3/3/01 11:51:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm not sure what the criteria for excluding someone like Bley is, but I
<BR>would (also) include Lenny Tristano, Dodo Marmarosa, Mary Lou Williams
<BR>(pre-
<BR>AND post-Bud), Herbie Nichols, Elmo Hope, Professor Longhair</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#8080c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>
<BR>Professor Longhair was my first thought too, but I thought he might have been
<BR>a little too obscure for this list. Thank you for mentioning this.
A few months back I bought one of the Evan Parker Electro-Acoustic Ensemble albums on ECM ("Drawn Inward" I think) only to find that the actual music on the disc was some Italian woman vocalist. Both copies in the store were like that. Did anybody else have this problem and has it been corrected?
Subject: The hole in the 70s (was: Irene Schweizer Trio- Early Tapes (FMP 0590))
Date: 06 Mar 2001 15:04:29 EST
>>> Has this trio album with Guru Guru
>>> members Uli Trepte and Mani Neumeier
>>> ever been released on CD?
>>
>> I don't believe so.
>
> Thanks- shameful, but at least I
> didn't miss a limited pressing...
I don't think any of Schweizer's '60s and '70s output on FMP has ever been reissued on CD. Reminds me also of the situation with Ran Blake: all that stuff he did in the '70s on the Owl, Novus, and Golden Crest labels (not to mention a 1969 record on Milestone) never got onto disk and has fallen into oblivion. As has a lot of other vital stuff from that era, although the situation has improved somewhat of late with the Delmark, Sackville, Screwgun, and Sun Ra reissues. (Leo Records' long-awaited reissues of their early '80s catalog - Crispell, Kuryokhin, etc. - and also the Zorn reissues from that period also deserve mention.)
I wonder if any decade in jazz has been less well served on CD. And I wonder how different perceptions of jazz history would be - per the jazz-died-in-the-70s canard - if we could just hear that era's output.
Revenant is indeed planning a multi-CD box set of Charlie Patton's work for later this year. After that, they'll be putting together John's last recordings for release.
Subject: Re: The hole in the 70s (was: Irene Schweizer Trio- Early Tapes (FMP 0590))
Date: 06 Mar 2001 17:36:58 EST
In a message dated Tue, 6 Mar 2001 3:06:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, DvdBelkin@aol.com writes:
I wonder if any decade in jazz has been less well served on CD. And I wonder how different perceptions of jazz history would be - per the jazz-died-in-the-70s canard - if we could just hear that era's output.
>>
<sarcasm>
Could be why Ken Burns left out the 70's in his documentary...
BTW, I'd just thought I'd ask if anyone else besides me thinks that the Iskra 1903 set is ridiculously great?
Also, how is the new Evan Parker-produced strings album on Emanem? Anyone heard it?
I'm sure also that someone has mentioned the Evan Parker/Keith Rowe duo disc at some point; is that as great as can be reasonably assumed? I never seem to see that one; I'm looking to complete the Evan Parker meets AMM triumvurate of duo albums.
What about Weather Report? Ornette? Dexter's Homecoming (is that the title? - the double w/ Woody Shaw from 1979)? The majority of Woody Shaw's output?
Miles? Keith Jarrett - the most prolific jazz pianist of the '70's, released about 14 albums with his quartet with Dewey Redman, 3 with the quartet with Jan Garbarek, not to mention scads of solo albums and other things more in a classical sort of realm. V. S. O. P., arguably steeped in the '60 Miles thing but sounding very unmistakably of their time. There are actually 3 records by that band, though I'm not sure how many were released in the '70's. Joe Henderson did some great stuff in the decade. Mahavishnu, Tony Williams Lifetime, even Chick Corea at times. Herbie's Thrust is one of the best jazz albums ever!
Of course, if were defining jazz as albums that sound like Milestones, Giant Steps, Birth of the Cool, etc., then I guess much less of this qualifies. I always considered even the amped-up stuff from the '70's to be more jazz than anything else.
Revenant is indeed planning a multi-CD box set of Charlie Patton's work for later this year. After that, they'll be putting together John's last recordings for release.
There's a new Serge Gainesbourg box set--it's a french import--and it's 18 cd's. 16 studio records with bonus tracks and 2 cd's unreleased elsewhere. It looks to be everything the guy has done.
The question: Is this thing worth getting? It's $450.00 and I only have 1 cd--comic strip, which I enjoy--of his plus the Zorn tribute thing--Great Jewish Music. Will I love it all, or will there be 14 cd's of crap and 2 great cd's.
Any thought on this guy's entire catalogue would be appreciated.
> For those like Rrrrrrrrrrick Lopez who have been
> desperately trying to find a copy of Anthony
> Braxton's 'Quartet (Dortmund) 1976' on hat Art,
> good news. Forget eBay and don't spend mad
> cash. There's a reissue in the pipeline on
> hatOLOGY. Apparently 'Quartet (Willisau) 1979'
> will also be reissued, that one being Brax with
> Ray Anderson, John Lindberg and Thurman
> Barker, also lovely though not quite so
> earth-shaking as Dortmund.
I was confused when looking at this on the Hat site -- the 1979 recording was titled "Performance (Quartet) 1979", but there is also the spectacular "Willisau (Quartet) 1991" For some reason, I interpreted it as being a mistake, and that it is the latter which will be issued. Maybe not.
> As for Zorn content, 'Cobra' is up for reissue as
> well. This will be the third or fourth edition of
> that recording, but now it's marked as
> "remastered" as well.
Actually, if my memory serves me correctly, it says 'remixed', which opens up many more possibilities.
> Cecil Taylor's 'It Is In the Brewing Luminous' is
> scheduled for April, and Sun Ra's 'Sunrise in
> Different Dimensions,' Albert Ayler's
> 'Lorrach/Paris 1966' and Myra Melford's 'Alive in
> the House of Saints' are also on the list.
> All this and more (including some cool new
> releases as well) are detailed on
> the hat Art site, www.hathut.com.
Which is, in my opinion, an example of how not to design a website. That little frame in the middle -- the only one with content -- needs to be expanded, while the top one -- navigation -- could be about 1/2 the size. And there isn't enough info about the recordings; dates, personell, etc are more important than a paragraph out of the liner notes.
Dan
Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
>Which is, in my opinion, an example of how not to design a website. >That little frame in the middle -- the only one with content -- >needs to be expanded, while the top one -- navigation -- could
You're right. On a low-resolution monitor like the one I use at work this site is almost literally unreadable. Too many designers look at the site on their own systems and don't check for differing resolutions or slower connections.
> I've heard great things about the new solo John Butcher disc on Emanem,
> though. any opinions on that? mine won't be arriving for a few weeks.
>
> Jon
> www.erstwhilerecords.com
I listened to about the first 20 - 25 minutes of it, and really liked it a lot. I thought that Butcher was doing some interesting things that I haven't heard from him before. Then, for some stupid reason, lent it to a friend before finishing with it. He told me that after that point, it goes down hill a bit, reverting to some more familiar ideas. I generally trust this person's opinion, but will hold judgement until I hear the whole thing for myself. From what I remember from scanning the notes, it is from many of the same shows as the duos/trios on Meniscus, and the session with Robair and Sperry.
Dan
Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
But insofar as music-_making_ has political implications in a given context, this does not mean that the music itself has political content. In Eastern Europe, for example, the Communist authorities had all sorts of do's and don'ts about what politically correct "people's" art should be like: in the case of music, it should incorporate folk material, it should be tonal, it shouldn't go over the heads of the proletariate, it should be "uplifting," it shouldn't be "hot" - i.e., it should make the masses want to work, not fuck. In that context, it was the very _refusal_ of political programming or inspiration that made jazz (swing, bop, and later the free stuff), 12 tone classical, and rock'n'roll so deeply subversive behind the Iron Curtain - the musics of rebellion and freedom.
(There is a great account of this in the fiction and essays of Josef Skvorecki: "The Bass Saxophone," "Talkin' Moscow Blues," "The Cowards," etc.)
> The 'New Thing' was very much a voicing
> of what was happening at the time in the
> black community, and although you might
> perceive it as a purely instrumental
> sound, the sound of the horns was able
> to communicate emotional and even
> political (anger!) feelings to those
> with the ears to hear.
Well, there's an old saying: military intelligence is to intelligence as military music is to music... Which is to say that what the "New Thing" produced of enduring musical value communicates much more than the rage and militance of the '60s. Archie Shepp's "Attica Blues," for example. It's way more than "message music." Kind of like Beethoven's 3rd Symphony...
> In my opinion, it was John Coltrane who
> took the music to the edge of the abyss
> (and beyond!), and played an incredibly
> deep spiritual sound that embraced all
> cultural and religious traditions.
And I think that what makes his sound so spiritual is that there's nothing in it that "shows off" Trane's spirituality. There's no "Look at me! I've transcended my ego!" coming out of that man's horn. Ever.
In contrast, when I listen to someone like Tisziji Munoz belaboring his "spirit" thing on electric guitar, it just feels like a complete hustle. Sonic Elmer Gantry. It's just too blatant, and I'm at a loss at how other people take his healing-the-universe stuff seriously. (I'll admit, though, that the self-congratulatory titles and holier-than-thou liner notes don't help.) Go figure.
David
np: Schulhoff, Concerto for Piano & Orchestra, Op 11.
Hans Georg-Gadamer, a French Hermeneutic philosopher, has quite an extensive dialogue on the subject of art and religion. In a way, he kind of goes back to Heidegger, and refines Martin's ideas of "ways of knowing the world." To make a long story short, Gadamer suggests that art discloses the world to mankind in a similar fashion as religion. i.e. the two things are almost the same. If your interested, read Truth And Method.
They also kind of argue that science and rationality are forces of precluding sacred ways of knowing the world. That is to say that rationality has created a system where the sacred way of knowing the world is discounted as ridiculous whereas science seems to get the final say on everything.
On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 04:38:49PM -0500, Steve Spangler wrote:
> They also kind of argue that science and rationality are forces of precluding sacred ways of knowing the world. That is to say that rationality has created a system where the sacred way of knowing the world is discounted as ridiculous whereas science seems to get the final say on everything.
Somewhere in Samuel R. Delany's novel Dhalgren, a character talks
convincingly about how art, religion, and science each see the others
as mistaken of their own all-encompassing truth.
--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
Science seems to always have the "last word" on everything. And this extension of rationality has become the model by which we run our lives. It is where we look for our morality, and our structuring of society. It has followed a distinct history, which can be traced genealogically--as Foucault has shown.
We almost all abide by a utilitarian moral compass in discerning right/wrong. It is a scientific method of calculating our pleasures and pains and extrapolating the right thing to do. The law is a glaring example. Laws follow a utilitarian format--it asks "who should benefit in this instance?" It sometimes follows a deontological approach, but mostly just in tort law.
Science provided us with this model, and it has given us a distinct perspective on the world. Some argue that it has thwarted our value system, by imposing itself as the answer to all questions--it is the only way to know the world. This seems very sad.
Zygmint Bauman goes so far as to suggest that Bentham/Mill's utilitarianism caused the holocaust by providing the rational model to carry out the mass extermination.
Nietzsche seems to have argued this long before--"God is dead and we have killed him." It was science that did this.
> But performing a search on Matthew Shipp also > brings out a few albums I had
> never heard of: "Blink of an eye" (with Rob
> Brown), "Circular temple"...
> Anyone heard (of) them ?
Blink of an Eye is on No More, from 3 or 4 years ago. Probably available from Cadence, Verge, etc,or I think Steven at AUM Fidelity also sells them. Haven't heard it, so can't comment.
Circular Temple was Shipp's 3rd or 4th album, around 1990, with Wm. Parker and ??? (Whit Dickey maybe). Originally released on Quinton Records, which I think was his own label (but maybe not). I believe it was reissued by 2.13 or some offshoot of it a few years ago. The Quinton one is definitely out of print, probably hard to find (I found one used a few years ago, only one I've seen), not sure about the status of the reissue (don't think I've ever seen it).
Dan
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Bauman's comment is maximally offensive. It was Nazi scum that
caused the Holocaust, with some non-tivial assistance from, for
example, Polish anti-semites (cf. this week's New Yorker).
How is this offensive? You don't think the Nazi's were operating under a thought system? They were just jerks?
Bauman is saying that the holocaust was the rational conlusion in a society where morality was supported by a scientific model of thought. Look at modern medicine: got cancer? then cut it out. The nazis were "cutting out their cancer," as far as they were concerned. This is how they were taught to deal with their problems--isolate the problem, then be rid of it. I don't see why that's so offensive; it seems more reasonable than saying it was caused by some assholes.
I'd like to hear from those who have a dramatic opinion on Pat Metheny as a guitarist/composer/arranger/etc.... one way or the other... E-mail me privately, Thank you....
-That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.
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<P> I'd like to hear from those who have a dramatic opinion on Pat Metheny as a guitarist/composer/arranger/etc.... one way or the other... E-mail me privately, Thank you....</P>
<P> </P><BR><BR><P>-That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." </P>
<P>An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.</P>
<P> </P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
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Subject: Roswell Rudd (was a question about Archie Shepp)
Date: 13 Mar 2001 17:30:36
<html><DIV>>But while we're on the subject, there is now a CD available from the<BR>>Shepp/Rudd Jazz Standard run I reviewed back in September (the message you<BR>>quoted). It's out on Universal in France. The disc, by the way, is the first of a five-CD deal >producer Verna Gillis has made with Universal France. I think the deal is actually Roswell's, >but he's sharing the riches with other friends. There's a Sheila Jordan/Rudd<BR>>disc coming next year, and a lot more besides<BR></DIV>
<DIV>I had the chance to talk with Duck Baker at a Eugene Chadbourne show last fall and he said he was working on a duet Cd with Rudd, but that he didn't know what label it would be on, that that was in Rudd's hands. so maybe this will be a part of this series??</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, does anyone have comments on the Unheard Herbie Nichols CDs Rudd did for CIMP? Should I go for that before the Lacy/Mengelberg/Bennink/Rudd/one other guy 'Regeneration' CD on black Saint (which I heard one song from on a sampler and did think was pretty good)??</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>thanks</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>WY</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
> I've got this CD. Hmmm...well...I'd put it a little above some of Herb
> Albert's work of late...
>
wow, that's harsh. there are reviews up on my site (under laswell and
bernocchi's discographies)
dave
http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr
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<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I've got this CD. Hmmm...well...I'd put it a little above some of Herb
<BR>Albert's work of late...
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>wow, that's harsh. there are reviews up on my site (under laswell and
there's a CD shop in NYC called NORMAN'S. locals will probably know this place. to those of you that don't, this shop has a ton of out-of-print music of just about every genre. they also put CDs out for sale as soon as they get them (usually on a Saturday) and not on the following Tuesday, when just about every distributer lreally 'releases' new music. it's a great place to go for this reason.
well I couldn't wait to buy the Hammond Wicked Grin record. boy do I regret it. I'm not a blues fan by any means. but I am a Waits fanatic. those tunes that he doesn't slaughter are full of lousy blues singing, and he misunderstands most of those tunes. what was Tom thinking? the playing is okay, but the disc has NONE of the dark charm we think of when Waits is involved (sharp contrast to the Marianne Faithful recod Strange Weather). save your money. I'm probably selling mine used in the next few days.
Cheers,
Dave
By the way, last night's Rothenberd-Dresser-Ibarra gig was great. probably Susie's best playing for 1 year. she even said to Dresser, after his solo in the first tune, "That was amazing!"
-That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
--0-701662661-984607228=:22319
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<P>I've met John Zorn, I know he exists....</P>
<P>God? I don't think so... </P>
<P> </P><BR>
<P> </P><BR><BR><P>-That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." </P>
<P>An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.</P>
<P> </P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href=http://auctions.yahoo.com>Yahoo! Auctions</a> - Buy the things you want at great prices!
What other uncommon instruments does Zorn use besides the wind machine, duck call, samples etc? And are there any Tzadik or otherwise releases that feature only Zorn, or would that be contradictory in terms of how Zorn works?
Did this Rough Trade compilation ever appear on CD? Looking at that Rough Trade box set made me think of this. Back when RT had a US mail order business I used to get their catalogs filled with all this mysterious stuff, especially for somebody from a small town in Alabama. The compilation looked like a good way to find out who these people were which it not only did but remained a favorite for years even after I'd heard entire albums by most of the musicians.
>well, for someone who doesn't have any of their albums (i don't know >why, but i don't) what would people recommend? i have heard good
My favorite is "Zurich" but I don't think that ever came out on CD. "Seven Reasons for Tears" runs a close second, partly because it's the line-up with a bassist that I saw perform in a tiny dance studio in Birmingham (AL, not ENG) where the hard-wood floors amplified the entire performance and overloaded the recording being made (the levels were fine during the sound check). Any of the collaborations with Voice Crack raise a lovely clatter. To be honest, most of the non-collaborative albums sound more or less similar but it's the details that matter, innit?
Looking for, so far can't find (not at Cadence etc):
"Legba Crossing" - Cecil Taylor Workshop (FMP CD 0 - they have website maybe?)
"Hymn for the Perfect Heart of a Pearl" - Dennis Gonzales Band of Sorcerers (Konnex KCD 5026 - website?)
Also, recently picked up "Sweet Freedom - Now What" - Joe McPhee, Lisle Ellis, Paul Plimley (hatArt 6162), but it's missing pp. 3-18 of the booklet. This too seems to be a cutout. (Or is it?) I'd get a complete one if I could...
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
Date: 20 Mar 2001 14:03:21 -0800 (PST)
--- "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
wrote:
> The usual whiny explanation...
>
> You really believe that we had to wait for Wynton
> and Stanley for jazz
> to be in such situation?...They noticed a problem
and proposed a
> solution.
A final solution, it would seem.
>You like it
> or not.
Words _do_ matter and _are_ powerful; when the LCJO
posse appropriates the term "jazz" as aggressively and
exclusively as they have, I'd argue this clearly
closes the field for many other people, even if they
have no personal or aesthetic investments in the word
or "the" tradition. People are so dependent on
categories, that before one gets the chance to
(cheerfully) problematize this dependency and wean
them off the need for discrete genre limitations, they
are co-opted by the (coercive) arbiters of taste. I
read that Hemphill article when it came out, and it
didn't come across like whining; it was a complaint,
and it was a criticism.
---s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
The question of whether or not jazz is in deep shit or is fine is irrelevant, as any so-called art form evolves and mutates into unrecognizable forms over time anyway.
I suspect that the real reason people get miffed at the dynamic duo is their air of 'anything we don't like is worthless.' Granted, lots of people, including most of us on this list, possess thoughts of that nature in some form or another, but the fact remains that to air these views in such a public and authoritarian manner is irresponsible. For someone like Wynton, who is so involved in education, teaching music from such a closed mindset is fairly inexcusable.
At any rate, some people - one could argue most sometimes - just don't get it, and never will, so its really pointless to get upset about it.
On a MUCH more interesting note, I saw Ruins on Sunday night in Phladelphia. Incredible. I've loved them for a while, but they keep improving upon their already high level, and are getting more interesting with each new release. Though there's been about 4 bass players, this version is by far the strongest, I feel, with the past two releases - Vrresto and Pallatschom - containing their most varied and frenzied stuff. Ron Anderson and PAK were also great; kind of like an American Ruins with guitars added.
-matt mitchell
>>Two possibilities:
- jazz is in deep shit: if you believe that, this has been the case
for a while and you are attributing too much importance to the
infamous duo
- jazz is fine: in this case you should not care about what they are
would eat up the textural INSULATION. Any opinions on
Ambarchi's other work, esp. that one on Tzadik? The
label blurb was mildly off-putting.
----s
NP: Henry Cow, "Oslo" from CONCERTS (thinking, in the
final minutes of the piece, just how uncanny this
early-mid Seventies performance sounds like some of
the more dramatic moments on Tim Berne's early
Bloodcount recordings [perhaps the end of the long
piece "Eye Contact"?], all the way down to
Hodgkinson's alto playing; this music is good enough
to make a curmudgeon out of me).
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
Did any of you NYers go see any of these concerts?
Sounds excellent.
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
> recently published book on Hans Bellmer, and I think
What's the publication info on this? As recently as
six or eight months ago, it seemed that there was next
to nothing in-print by or on Bellmer, at least in U.S.
market. I'd love to find a relatively comprehensive
book of his work, esp. the drawings.
---s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
<P>>BTW, I have totally been into Ambarchi's solo prepared guitar and electronics record on >Touch, INSULATION. How do the Stacte LPs compare? I think anyone who enjoys >fertile drone and/or "microsound" excursions would eat up the textural INSULATION. Any >opinions on Ambarchi's other work, esp. that one on Tzadik? The label blurb was mildly >off-putting.<BR></P>
<P>well, it's always good to not put too much stock in those label blurbs ...</P>
<P>it has been a year and a half since i heard it, but i liked it pretty well. i remember thinking captain beefheart, boredoms, marc ribot's shrek were kind of vague reference points (yeah, that's not very helpful, i know). some of it was 'skronky' guitar stuff, there was a long, almost ambient drone and another track that did something altering a rabbi's voice, looping it or something to that effect. kind of all over the place, but not like naked city at all. i get the impression that this was kind of a transition point between the phlegm albums and his later guitar improv work, but since i haven't heard that stuff, i can't really say for sure!! </P>
<P>on another note, this new Tim Berne cd on thirsty ear w/ craig taborn and tom rainey is one of the best things i've heard in a long time. great production, too. </P>
<P>wy</P></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
I think most people on this list would appreciate Metal Box aka Second Edition, esp. with Mr. Wobble so high up in the mix. I think of it as a map of interesting ideas that they sadly didn't explore enough. Pretty disturbing stuff but it's AOR compared to Flowers of Romance, which I heartily recommend if you want to piss off your neighbors (though I like it fine myself).
Personally, I would have lived to have seen JZ or Cecil get the nod instead but I guess the U.N. doesn't dig anything that's post-bop.
I do believe that Dizzy had this job years ago. I seem to remember a clip from the '50's or '60's where he holds up his trumpet and tells reporters that he's going to introduce the Russians to the 'cool weapon.'
Subject: Re: If I like Abisinth....reccomendations
Date: 22 Mar 2001 07:42:02 -0800 (PST)
--- Case <sinkas@camtech.net.au> wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone had any reccomendation for
> music like abisinth,
>
> Case
Just to venture a one suggestion (and it's been a
little while since I've heard ABSINTHE):
Nurse With Wound (you might ask elsewhere for rec's;
maybe HOMOTOPY TO MARIE or A MISSING SENSE; dark
atmospherics to raging noise/collage)
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
One more PiL tidbit that people here may appreciate. When Laswell was working with Lydon to decide who was going to be in the 'band' for "Album," Lydon reported joked that they should get Ginger Baker (ex-Cream, who was living in Italy on an olive farm). Laswell said 'that's the first good idea you've had.' He got in touch with Baker and he does indeed appear on "Album."
hello, it's me, the poster formerly known as kurt.gottschalk@scni.com. not much time to talk to y'all what with the new job, but in case you're keeping score, i'm now albertayler@email.com.
On your "no experience" list are two that I'd highly recommend:
Wayside, who I've been dealing with for at least fifteen years (whoa) and can't even come up with a nitpicking complaint about. In addition, I've heard nothing but good things from the labels that have dealt with Wayside.
Anomalous, great for the avant-est avant-garde with sometimes the lowest prices around (here in the US anyway). I even ordered something once that the price dropped by the time they got it so they refunded the difference.
I'd also recommend:
Aquarius Records in San Francisco; their prices tend to be a bit high but they're very nice people and put out a great email newsletter (plus they carry some stuff I can't find elsewhere).
Dusty Groove, unbeatable prices and a great selection of exotica, Brazillian, hard bop, soul jazz, French, etc. (Though apparently their overseas shipping to some countries might be a bit steep.)
RRRecords, 23 Central St., Lowell MA 01852 - no website (or only an old one that lists their own releases) and a listing-only catalog are the main drawbacks
Twisted Village, also nice people and have some good used titles as well
and of course Forced Exposure is a reliable mainstay (though I miss being able to read their photocopied catalogs)
For more general/mainstream releases (relatively speaking) a friend recommended CD Connection as a good alternative to the Amazons and CDNows of the world. He does orders every other month (must be nice) and the only one I've placed was fast and completely filled even though there were a couple of items I expected they wouldn't get immediately.
Subject: Re: online store comparisons CORRECTION!!
Date: 22 Mar 2001 20:07:11 EST
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In a message dated 3/22/01 6:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
velaires@earthlink.net writes:
> I heartily endorse www.genn.com, which actually represents many different
> sellers.
This is a great site, and I am one of the dealers participating in it.
However, the URL is http://www.gemm.com. And if you care to look me up
specifically, I'm Little Nighttown Music, listed in GEMM as litnitmus.
Dale.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#8080c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 3/22/01 6:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
In a message dated 3/22/01 11:55:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ssmith36@sprynet.com writes:
> Then came 'Album.' .... And yes, my jaw drops as far as any when I read the
> list of
> contributors on what was in every way a Bill Laswell disc with Lydon vocals,
> and yes, some of the songs are very, very good, but none of that changes the
> sense of outrage and betrayal I felt at the time.
Steve, I'm going to agree AND disagree with you on this. I hadn't heard much
PiL prior to this release, which came out while I was working in record
retail. In retrospect, I agree with everything you've said about it in
context with the rest of the PiL catalog. However: at the time, I liked it
loads - it was the best Led Zeppelin album they never made.
Which brings me to a side-note on critical listening. As much as possible
(like when my feeble brain remembers), I try to force myself to listen to
EVERY album as though it was someone's (and not necessarily someone
well-known) FIRST album. It can put an interesting, and often very different,
spin (npi) on things. Discuss?.....
Dale.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#8080c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 3/22/01 11:55:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Then came 'Album.' .... And yes, my jaw drops as far as any when I read the
<BR>list of
<BR>contributors on what was in every way a Bill Laswell disc with Lydon vocals,
<BR>and yes, some of the songs are very, very good, but none of that changes the
<BR>sense of outrage and betrayal I felt at the time. </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#8080c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>
<BR>Steve, I'm going to agree AND disagree with you on this. I hadn't heard much
<BR>PiL prior to this release, which came out while I was working in record
<BR>retail. In retrospect, I agree with everything you've said about it in
<BR>context with the rest of the PiL catalog. However: at the time, I liked it
<BR>loads - it was the best Led Zeppelin album they never made.
<BR>
<BR>Which brings me to a side-note on critical listening. As much as possible
<BR>(like when my feeble brain remembers), I try to force myself to listen to
<BR>EVERY album as though it was someone's (and not necessarily someone
<BR>well-known) FIRST album. It can put an interesting, and often very different,
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> > + Large selection of avant-jazz & experimental music of all sorts
> > + Very good prices in USD due to good exchange rate with CAD
> > + 5% discount on most items if 'backorder' option chosen
> > - with 'backorder' option, order could go out in arbitrary number of
> > shipments (with associated cost, hence the 5% discount)
The backorder policy has always bugged me (I've been buying from Daniel since pre-Verge days, when the company was Marginal Distribution). However it is getting better -- on the last couple of backorders I got an email when he got them in, giving me the option of making another order. This helps to cut down the shipping cost per item.
Dan
Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
> Zorn considers himself a transgressive auteur. He
> thinks that music, if
> it's worth anything, should always test the
> boundaries of the possible.
Speaking of said boundaries, I remember reading
(albeit not throroughly, unfortunately, and a few
years ago) an essay by Michel Foucault called "A
Preface to Transgression"---I believe it's been
anthologized in POWER/KNOWLEDGE and AESTHETICS; since
that deals with Bataille, etc, maybe it'd be of
interest to folks. Easier than much other Foucault.
Bill, did you make the point _why_ Bataille (cf.
EROTISM) makes "shock value" a moot point? I don't
quite get that.
And since I read this years (?) ago and it popped back
into my head, here's a tidbit from our favorite Paul
Auster lookalike, Marc Ribot:
"A lot of my favorite music has been transgressive in
some way so a lot of my favorite bands have also been
transgressive in some way. . . One type of performance
that I admire is one that transgresses against a
commonly accepted falsehood. I mean not blind
transgression, like if I went up and stabbed somebody
in the audience, that would be transgressing norms of
behavior. On the other hand I think if you can
successfully transgress some piece of bullshit that
people don't even know is their assumption then it can
come to create powerful music. I'm always on the
lookout for that....
I sensed a boundary and I thought 'What happens if you
transgress it?' It's more interesting to transgress
something once you've found it. So I tried to and you
know I wrote a couple of tunes on this record. I wrote
this tune called "Yo! I Killed You're God." . . . As
it turns out a lot of my friends also are Jewish. So
there was sort of a conversation started. Zorn is also
very interested in transgression. And Zorn had sort of
an opportunity to curate this two days of a [Radical
Jewish Culture] festival in Munich, two days of an art
projectïI think in 1992. And what better place to be
transgressive than in Munich. I mean it's almost
guaranteed." (source:
http://www.jsps.com/stories/ribot1.shtml)
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
>There's also a couple of *great* radio stations there on the left of >the dial. Last time I was in the city (a few years ago), one of
Yep, WREK is wonderful free-form; you can get an idea from the fact that its two longest-running shows (almost 20 years for each!) are a very nice swing retrospective and "Destroy All Music" (pretty much what it sounds like). A few years back some of the student government people decided the station was out of control and tried to make it more mainstream. Basically that only resulted in some broad guidelines of mostly rock (actually "rock") in the afternoon: it's still quite common to hear Peter Brotzmann, Tony Conrad, Sun Ra, Derek Bailey, etc, not to mention Led Zepplin bootlegs, Israeli pop, obscure rap, entire ragas, death metal, SubGenius propaganda, 18th century string quartets from composers you (or at least I) have never heard of, and so on. Imagine a disorganized WFMU and you've got the idea. Check for yourself (live streaming and archived shows) at http://www.wrek.org
The George Tech station is WRAS and five or six years ago it was pretty standard college radio, mainly playing major label "alternative" stuff. Now there's rarely any major labels around and they're playing way more than the CMJ picks ranging from seven-inches to anything they think interesting. Nothing too extreme--no Merzbow--but you can hear Blackalicious bumped up against Hank Williams, Serge Gainsbourg against the Teletubbies, Spanish-language rap against Mouse on Mars. Some great specialty shows too.
Also of occasional interest but more sporadic are WCLK (all jazz though mostly schlock, a PD change two or three years ago really dumbed it down), WRFG ("community" programming with some decent music shows, esp a great blues show), WABE (typical NPR).
>I wish I could say that the music-buying scene was good. Unless >anything's changed recently, the music selection sucks for a city >the size of Atlanta.
This is pretty much true. However, check out Wuxtry for a good indie and jazz selection and Criminal Records also for indies/slipstream stuff. The legendary Wax n Facts is so cramped that shopping there isn't really worth the trouble. Because of all the label offices here, there's often some great stuff showing up in used stores. There's also a Tower but it's perpetually mismanaged and way too pricey. The best overall selection though also a bit pricey is Borders, particularly the Buckhead store.
And even then, in my experience, you might nor might
not get all that you ordered. I can see why they
might not want to screw with inquiries on "is it in
right _now_?" but two weeks go by and you get, say
most or part of your order. The rest...try again. My
experiences with the superhumanly patient staff at
Downtown Music Gallery, Anomalous, and Verge (who will
tell you if something they distrib is not in, and
offer to order) has been tops. Right now a favorite
is Riouxs, who ship almost as promptly as Bruce (no
one ships more promptly than Bruce) and are very
cheerful. Two cents, or less, as always.
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
I liked it but thought it took a while to get going (it's one long piece) and still has some slow spots. But that's only one hearing; I suspect it may offer more the next times around. Parker has some particularly sharp playing at spots.
Subject: Re: Coming to Riouxs rescue (was: online store comparisons)
Date: 26 Mar 2001 09:08:13 -0800 (PST)
--- Dgasque@aol.com wrote:
> IIRC, Jason's been busy with some
> non-business-related activities of late.
> He's usually one of the quicker ones to respond and
> ship that I've dealt
> with. I'd say definitely give him another chance.
The very first time I ordered, I had a little trouble
with Riouxs, just a little; but since then it's been
great, esp. since the guy does things outside the
store/mail order and somehow finds time for personal
life, I assume, and still is very kind to make
recommendations and listen to Handley voice-prattle.
My experience since that first time is that it's a
swell place to shop; plus in addition to cooperatively
running Kim Cascone's Anechoic label (fine e.p. CD
with Cascone + Keith Rowe), they'll be producing their
own in-house label soon, called Infraction; I think
the first release will be by enigmatic electronic
musician Zammuto.
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
I'm surprised nobody else has answered so I'll unlurk briefly. Around 1982 or '83 Material (the Laswell Beinhorn, Fred Maher configuration) release an odd album of pop/funk/disco called One Down. I don't have it in front of me but I think the song is from this record. It may have Nona Hendryx on vocals. I kinda like this cheesy record. It's fun to hear the likes of Oliver Lake, Olu Dara, Fred Frith, and Archie Shepp solo over 80's funk. Trivia buffs will also note that this is the first recorded appearence by Whitney Huston. She sings the only ballad on the record, a cover of the Soft Machine (Hugh Hopper) song Memories. This is the track with Archie Shepp as well. Laswell's funk chops are on display throughout the other tunes. More info than you needed, most of it reasonably correct.
>Because I'm dealing with a fellow here that says that the album
>is a complete misreading of the man's vision.
>to which I replied ...
My reply would have been "So what?" This isn't Bach where people can build careers arguing whether a piano or harpsichord is more appropriate. There's room for both just as there's room for Zorn completely misreading Ornette, if that's what he did. After all, it's Zorn's name on the cover so maybe this fellow just misread Zorn's vision. It happens.
I've seen that Naked City performs songs live that are not on any of their albums... Such as "the list of Adrian Messenger." Where can one obtain these songs... Are there studio versions? Is there, perhaps, a Naked City album that hasn't been released? (wishful thinking) ...and Zorn has released 4 live Masada CD's... Why has he failed to release a single live Naked City album?
-That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.
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<P> I've seen that Naked City performs songs live that are not on any of their albums... Such as "the list of Adrian Messenger." Where can one obtain these songs... Are there studio versions? Is there, perhaps, a Naked City album that hasn't been released? (wishful thinking) ...and Zorn has released 4 live Masada CD's... Why has he failed to release a single live Naked City album?</P>
<P> </P><BR><BR><P>-That which is Theo "My philosophy, in essense, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." </P>
<P>An individualist is a man who says: "I will not run anyone else's life, nor let anyone rule mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not sacrifice myself for anyone, nor sacrifice anyone to myself." --Ayn Rand.</P>
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zorn's intention w/ spy v spy, as i understand it, was to make a sorta hardcore punk ornette (hardcornette?) record. so clearly ornette's vision wasn't jz's (only) concern. story goes that elliot sharp was producer/engineer, but zorn insisted on a thin mix with no bass, and e# took his name off the project.
i do think it's sorta annoying sounding. not one of my fave jz's.
zorn also apparently occasionally starts working on a live ncity disc. i know a few people he's requested live tapes from in the last couple years, but i don't know that it's a front-burnered sorta thing for him.
btw, just started reading david margolick's 'strange fruit - the biography of a song.' recommended reading.
Subject: Zorn vs. Patton(supposed to be RE:Live Zorn on napster)
Date: 27 Mar 2001 20:36:59 -0800
>Mr. Bungle playing,
>either live or studio-quality, versions of many of our favorites:
>
>Hit Me Baby (Clitany Spears cover)(studio) so nice!
>and some Romanian devilishly fast gypsy thing
Just some arrogance here,
if you allow me.The Bitchney Spears cover is NOT Mr.Bungle,but instead a ''band'' called ''The ping pang band''.They just released this song,as far as I know,and,if you notice,in one part the guys sings ''my loneliness is killing Mike''...funny.Also,the romanian song-is it instrumental?If so,my guess is that probably it isn't Mr.Bungle,but the Secret chiefs 3,a more arabic/jazzy/surf-music like project...finally,most of this Zorn/Bungle/Patton related stuff can be found (and downloaded!) at ftp.bunglever.com .Now,something I'd like to ask:what is Dying ground?I only know Eyving Kang,who played with the SC3,is on it...what does it taste like?
Tastes,
Banquet piece for five players
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At the risk of being unacceptably off-topic, I'd like
to venture a request for folks' favorite dub or
strongly dub-inflected music. The
genre/approach/sensibility seems pretty prevalent, and
we've recently discussed some stuff that I think
qualifies (some Laswell, some of the "dark ambient" or
"isolationist" folks, etc.). To name a couple really
obvious things I've really enjoyed, I might mention:
The Congos: HEART OF THE CONGOS - I've enjoyed this
Blood and Fire 2d comp of Congos material--produced by
Lee "Scratch" Perry, the Upsetter, my selector--for
about four years now; beautiful reggae vocal stylings
from a dynamic Jamaican vocal duo. Plenty of Black
Ark Studios rattle and bounce.
Vladislav Delay - ENTAIN and ANIMA (both Mille
Plateaux) - This might not qualify, but especially
ENTAIN seems like a minimal-techno-refracted dub
experience. I enjoy this more than the Pole I've
heard; both artists seem to have comparable
approaches, which isn't to say they sound the same,
BASOTI; still, the Pole struck me as anemic. Delay's
assymmetrical deep synth bass, droning synth backdrop,
and diffused percussions are a really interesting
long-term listening experience, sustaining return
visits.
Well, enough for now. Thanks in advance.
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
There are two Music Club compilations from Augustus Pablo and King Tubby that are inexpensive and quite good. The few dub compilations I've heard from Heartbeat are nice and most anything from the British label Blood & Fire will be worth checking out. Also the "Trojan Dub" box set, but that may be out of print now. Current stuff from Mad Professor has the right vibe though sometimes there's a bit too much electro-gibberish and he's so prolific that I can't remember any titles off hand (though the collaborations with Lee Perry are wonderful). The dub version of Burning Spear's "Marcus Garvey" is a classic and you can get both on a single CD.
> Borrowing a poststructuralist motif, John Corbett,
> in his book "Extended
> Play," writes about productive "misreadings," where
> one intentionally
> misreads something in order to produce something
> else. It's a very useful
> idea, one that can be used in retort against certain
> forms of common sense.
I need to reference my Corbett, but it seems to me
that _unintentional_ misreadings (and I free this from
Harold Bloom's Oedipal-model "intention" of
misreading) can be really interesting, less
self-consciously attached to innovation (or the
"innovation" comes out somewhere contrary to the
producer's intent), and maybe more fully MIS-readings,
than would be someone's intentional, calculated
deviation; in Zorn's SPY V. SPY case, this calculation
took the form of collapsing two genres. I wish I had
a good example...ooh, this might be a fun thread.
Okay, for starters: didn't Lou Reed initially want the
Velvet Underground to be an R&B group? Of course, I'm
still talking mis-placed intentions...pretty hard to
nail those down, often just as illusory.
-----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
--- "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> wrote:
> Sounds like it could be his 2cd set of graphic
> scores, Stone, Brick, Glass,
> Wood, Wire. See the Fred discography
Anyone heard this and care to comment? I hadn't heard
a damn thing by Frith by 2000, now I have several
albums and am not disappointed with a one of them;
he's a beautiful genius, as though anyone on this list
needs to hear that.
----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
What a pleasant CD this is... Especially Ribot's playing... and track 6! Dave Douglas is in rare form... Just outstanding stuff... Overall I find the CD quite listener friendly... Some of the songs are a bit predictable, but that really doesn't take away from the musician's performances and certainly not the integrity of the "mood." Those who fancy the Circle Maker/Filmwoks series will fall for this album...
-Theo
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<P> What a pleasant CD this is... Especially Ribot's playing... and track 6! Dave Douglas is in rare form... Just outstanding stuff... Overall I find the CD quite listener friendly... Some of the songs are a bit predictable, but that really doesn't take away from the musician's performances and certainly not the integrity of the "mood." Those who fancy the Circle Maker/Filmwoks series will fall for this album...</P>
<P>-Theo</P>
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Bobby Previte's two CD's with Latin for Travelers are really quite good... Jamie Saft on keys, Marc Ducret on guitar (a fabulous guitarist, by the way)... My issue is I can't get any of the stuff on Napster... Like Zony Mash, Pigpen... Why are these bands not on Napster? Do they just not sell so many albums? I like to hear this stuff at work too, you know... (just a little Friday complaining, for no good reason)
-TheO
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<P> Bobby Previte's two CD's with Latin for Travelers are really quite good... Jamie Saft on keys, Marc Ducret on guitar (a fabulous guitarist, by the way)... My issue is I can't get any of the stuff on Napster... Like Zony Mash, Pigpen... Why are these bands not on Napster? Do they just not sell so many albums? I like to hear this stuff at work too, you know... (just a little Friday complaining, for no good reason)</P>
<P>-TheO</P>
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useful math to credit his teachers, i.e. in SPILLANE
notes. He studied with Ken Stalling (not to be
confused with Carl) at Webster College in St. Louis,
though he was not there very long. He credits endless
hours hunched over pitch class sets (I exaggerate
here, no doubt) with learning a sense of, er,
discipline and economy.
-----s
=====
"Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life...
Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!"
>>>Don't know about in SF, but I saw them the other night up here in Portland and they weren't selling any stuff
at times, i've seen tatsuya be quite the product-pusher. other times, he's not mentiond cds until i asked him. i've noticed that with other japanese musicians too. while some(read: nanjo)certainly ain't bashful, it seems other japanese musicians seem to wait to be asked. i've certainly benefitd from asking more than once.
anyway, in nyc he had a half dozen titles. i got the new akaten and the new koenjiyaki (i know that's spelld wrong). he also had his *excellent* solo multi-multi-trackd disc 'a million years'.
hano/haino/brotzman's 'shadows' is highly recommended, especially for the least known member, percussionist shoji hano.
> In a message dated 3/30/01 4:32:00 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes:
>
> << Speaking of Ruins, I just bought a new CD by a drums/vocals and bass duo
>
> called Lightning Bolt. They're based in Boston or Rhode Island, I don't
>
> know which (the label, Load, is in RI but the band is big in Boston
>
> apparently. The disc is called 'Ride the Skies,' and on one listen they
>
> strike me as very indebted to Ruins. It's pretty nice if perhaps
>
> derivative. Anyone know anything more about them? >>
>
> I've never heard them, but I know they're from Rhode Island, and they're one
> of the new batch of no wave bands that seem to be all the rage among NYC's
> "hipster" crowd. they play live here seemingly constantly, and are supposedly
> much better live than on record. the next show I see listed is April 7 at the
> Cooler. also, there's a double CD compilation of a lot of these bands coming
> out on Troubleman Unlimited in the next month or two.
I heard some Lightning Bolt on late night CBC radio a few weeks ago -- a live recording from late last year. I liked it quite a bit, but I have bizarre tastes when I'm driving at 3 a.m. I will admit I've never heard the Ruins, so don't know how they compare, but the closest reference I could think of would be Lemmy Kilmeister and some speedmetal drummer doing a really long jam. The host referred to them as part of a new wave of heavy metal, which I didn't think was really appropriate (though the thought of a metal resurgence minus the wanky guitars does sound appealing.
Dan
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