ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/zorn-list.200008

Internet Message Format | 2000-08-31 | 812KB

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: ribot/frith CD
Date: 01 Aug 2000 08:56:53 +0200

Hello,

Both artists put on this cd previously unreleased music. However it is =
not a
big secret that the Ribot tracks date from the same session that was =
held
for the Shrek cd that was released on Avant. However, I prefer the =
material
on the Sub Rosa disc: much longer and more time to develop the sound.

Let me grap the opportunity to plug other releases of the subsonic =
series of
the subrosa label: they also have Laswell/Bullen (abstract dub), =
Mazacane
Connors/Sasha Frere Jones (minimal lyriscism), Justin Broadrick/Andy =
Hawkins
(dark guitar ambient), Caspar Brotzmann/Page Hamilton (sheer noise), =
Lou
Barlow/Rudy Trouv=E9 (lo fi experiments)

All the releases are split releases, so no interference whatsoever (and =
that
is sometimes a shame).

In the pipeline is a split release by Eugene Chadbourne/(undecided at =
the
moment)

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

Stefan Verstraeten


-----Original Message-----


I found a Ribot Frith CD yesterday that was released on Subsonic=20
records.  They don't actually play on any tracks together, it's=20
somewhat of a split record.  Anyway, the Ribot stuff is Shrek and the=20
Frith stuff is solo guitar.  My question is this: is this otherwise=20
unreleased material or is this material on other releases?

Thanks,
Dan Hewins

-

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new Otomo CD
Date: 01 Aug 2000 09:08:44 +0200

-----Original Message-----
Sent: dinsdag 1 augustus 2000 1:55

Which leads me to ask if
anyone on the list likes the Angus MacLise 'The Invasion
Of Thunderbolt Pagoda' CD (recorded '68-'72), or any of
the Tony Conrad works like 'Early Minim

-------------
The Early minimalism box regularly finds its way into my cd player.
Especially the cd that was recorded in the knitting factory with (amongst
others) Jim O'rourke on violin. John McEntire captured the sound on cd...
great work.

Someone on this list stated that after 5 minutes, one can hear how it will
finish after 50 minutes. I agree completely, but the same general remark can
be said for someone who is not into Derek Bailey, Merzbow or Lull (perhaps
the last one is the best example since on these discs Mick Harris uses the
same way of playing music).

But if you listen to the full cd with great attention, you will see that
Conrad is able to create a flow of sound wich brings you in some sort state
of trance.

As a great fan of japanese noise, I listen with this point of view to Tony
Conrads' music... but it could be a wrong way of doing this, who knows.

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content)
Date: 01 Aug 2000 09:23:05 +0200

Hello Zornlisters,

for you who dig japanese noise (hello Brad !!!), some great news:

A new cd will sonn be released on Manifold records. The cd will have as a
sound source stones (similar to the one AUBE released some months ago with
someone whose name escapes me right now - but this time more recognisable).

After this, AUBE will be starting to lay the final hands on the Live series:
all the (now out of print) AUBE releases that came out on Manifold will be
re-released with an extra live cd....

Sounds great to me!!!!

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M. pathos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new Otomo CD
Date: 01 Aug 2000 13:12:46 GMT

In contrast to Jack Smith, on the basis of the currently published recorded
evidence I see little justification for the ongoing mythification of Mr.
MacLise. His "drumming" doesn't compare in any musical aspect to that of
feted jazz or middle eastern players, and his poetry is execrable. This
seems very much the case of artists eulogizing about an old acquaintance
lest he be forgotten.

As for Mr. Conrad's "Minimalism", I'd say he's most faithful to the
miniminalist spirit in his ongoing attempts to make a lot out of very
little. The most interesting thing about this swollen drone box is the
extended essay that accompanies the set; how fitting, from a University
professor!


>ask if
anyone on the list likes the Angus MacLise 'The Invasion
Of Thunderbolt Pagoda' CD (recorded '68-'72), or any of
the Tony Conrad works like 'Early Minim"<

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Reich interview/Beefheart book excerpt
Date: 01 Aug 2000 09:26:09 -0400

Greetings,

In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever
<http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find, among other things:

CAPTAIN BEEFHEART
Biography excerpt- an in-depth look at Trout Mask Replica

STEVE REICH INTERVIEW
A look at his early, historical tape pieces

We're always looking for good ideas and articles- please let us know if
you'd like to contribute.

See you online,
Jason


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Diego Gruber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Lizards on Sony LA
Date: 31 Jul 2000 17:01:14 -0500

Once again for people who have access to the Sony Channel Latin America,
this Saturday's Sessions at West 54th will feature in its second part a
performance by the Lounge Lizards.

D


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linares Hugo <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Lizards on Sony LA
Date: 01 Aug 2000 12:06:13 -0300

Good news Diego!

Thank you very much,

Hugo Linares

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De:    Diego Gruber [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Enviado el:    Lunes 31 de Julio de 2000 7:01 PM
> Para:    Zorn list
> Asunto:    Lizards on Sony LA
>
> Once again for people who have access to the Sony Channel Latin America,
> this Saturday's Sessions at West 54th will feature in its second part a
> performance by the Lounge Lizards.
>
> D
>
>
> -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "samuel yrui" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content)
Date: 01 Aug 2000 11:02:27 CDT

hey,
i have a question about Aube.  i've only heard the album where he uses the
christian bible as his sound source.
  i didn't like it very much because the tracks i heard was just loops of
sounds.  he would have one sound looping.  and then, suprise!, another sound
overlapping that at the exact same loop rate.  it was somewhat interesting
but for the most part boring.
  still i have not closed my mind to Aube, but i was wondering if this album
is a good example or does he have more variety?
   i'm just looking to see if he has albums that are more engaging.
    thanks,
       samuel







Hello Zornlisters,

for you who dig japanese noise (hello Brad !!!), some great news:

A new cd will sonn be released on Manifold records. The cd will have as a
sound source stones (similar to the one AUBE released some months ago with
someone whose name escapes me right now - but this time more recognisable).

After this, AUBE will be starting to lay the final hands on the Live series:
all the (now out of print) AUBE releases that came out on Manifold will be
re-released with an extra live cd....

Sounds great to me!!!!

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: andrew b piano trios
Date: 01 Aug 2000 13:15:12 -0500


Neues Kabarett presents

Andrew Barker - drums
Louie Belogenis - sax
Shoko Nagai - piano

and

The Andrew Bemkey Trio
w/Tom Abbs (bass) and special guest drummer

Saturday, August 12, 9 pm

at

The Brecht Forum
122 W. 27th St. 10th floor

$6-10, as you wish

for more info, call 212.567.0780



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: conrad/maclise/jack smith (was: Re: new Otomo CD)
Date: 01 Aug 2000 15:29:57 EDT

<<In contrast to Jack Smith, on the basis of the currently published recorded
evidence I see little justification for the ongoing mythification of Mr.
MacLise.>>

well, I can't say I'm a huge fan of either of the first two MacLise reissues
(I have an advance of the second, which is coming out very soon), but I like
them way more than the Jack Smith reissues, which, after my one listen to
borrowed copies, I wasn't quite sure why they were reissued, apart from his
status as a cult figure.

anyway, you'll be thrilled to know that the plan for the MacLise reissue
series on Siltbreeze/Quakebasket is to release 10 CDs over the next couple of
years.

also, my two cents on the new TOTE La Monte Young disc: I'll stay out of the
controversy because it really doesn't interest me that much. the disc itself
seems to me to be only of historical interest, but maybe it'll get the ball
rolling and we'll get to see some better sound quality, better planned
reissues, but from what I've heard, I kind of doubt it.

<<As for Mr. Conrad's "Minimalism", I'd say he's most faithful to the
miniminalist spirit in his ongoing attempts to make a lot out of very
little. >>

when I saw Tony Conrad play about five years ago, he was still using the same
violin he used on the Outside the Dream Syndicate record from 1972, in an
effort to maintain his sound over the generations. I kind of admired that,
even though the instrument looked like it was falling apart.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: conrad/maclise/jack smith (was: Re: new Otomo CD)
Date: 01 Aug 2000 14:01:26 -0700


On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:29:57 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> when I saw Tony Conrad play about five years ago, he was still using the same
> violin he used on the Outside the Dream Syndicate record from 1972, in an
> effort to maintain his sound over the generations. I kind of admired that,
> even though the instrument looked like it was falling apart.

Because the quality of the violin sound is relevant to the whole process? But
if it is for nostalgic reasons, I can understand.

    Patrice (puzzled by artists who base their whole carrier on a simple
        idea that they keep on repeating for decades).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filmoworks II
Date: 02 Aug 2000 01:51:24 +0200

Hi,
    I listen recently to Filmowrks II intensively. An incredible album! My
fave Zorn at the moment!
Two questions:
a) What was the film the music is suppposed to illustate like? The info on
the disc are not very extensive.
b) Some similiar JZ records? (maybe Elegy would be the closest i know)
Be well,
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new otomo cd
Date: 01 Aug 2000 20:52:52 -0400

With all the recent discussion about Otomo's CD Vinyl Tranquilizer, I'm
surprised no one has mentioned his recent entry into the sine wave
massacres, Digital Tranquilizer Ver.1.0 (F.M.N).  This is easily the
most accomplished sine wave work I've heard from him (and I've enjoyed
Filament 2 as well as ISO).  This one is a CD single consisting of five
tracks, recorded in Tokyo last July.  The first track samples Sachiko M,
but otherwise it is a solo effort.

Otomo occasionally shows the heritage of sine wave music, with a couple
of tracks sounding like they could be from an Ikeda album.  DT-1, for
example, could have come from the +/- sessions, with the very fast bpm.
DT-2 compares favorably with the Time disk on Staalplaat's Time and
Space collection, with a quick succession of vastly different textures
(including a quiet signal, like morse code, appearing in a brief
window).  My favorite track is DT-5, where two completely different
rhythms are layered, together with low drones and an exploration of
space through channel placement (especially effective on headphones).
There are a couple of other surprises on this short disk which have kept
it in the CD player more than usual for a new release.  I eagerly await
Digital Tranquilizer Ver.2.


--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Beside the dream syndicate
Date: 02 Aug 2000 03:54:47 -0000

On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:12:46 GMT "M. pathos"
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>In contrast to Jack Smith, on the basis of the currently
published recorded
>evidence I see little justification for the ongoing
mythification of Mr.
>MacLise. His "drumming" doesn't compare in any musical
aspect to that of
>feted jazz or middle eastern players, and his poetry is
execrable.

Sorry, but I fail to see what comparisons of technical
musical ability have to do with creative influences in
music. Certainly Angus MacLise stands as a very important
persona in recent musical history, if only for his role in
the formation of the Velvet Underground, bridging the gap
between the 'avant-garde' of the Dream Syndicate and the
wider rock audience of the Velvets. Of course, John Cale
was also in on this, but interviews with Cale and the
other members have emphasised the importance of MacLise in
creating the group. This is a given! Whether one enjoys
listening to the audible results of these musical
formations is, once again, a matter of personal taste. I
personally enjoy recordings like 'The Invasion Of
Thunderbolt Pagoda', 'Early Minimalism', 'Outside the
Dream Syndicate', especially for their psychomusickal
potential. Repetition is the s

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content)
Date: 02 Aug 2000 08:45:35 +0200

Hi,

If "Pages from the Book" (the cd you are referring to) sounds like a loop
repeated on and on, and at a certain moment a new loop on that.... I would
recommend not to spend any money on AUBE cds anymore.
Give it a try however with a quality headphone, and you will find out that
AUBE just doesn't do the "loop on loop"-thing.

Further recommendations? Difficult to say because of two things: AUBE has a
very huge output (take the output by Bill Laswell and multiply it by 20 and
you get an idea what he published over the years) and -since I admire his
work- I am not an objective person.

Let me try: AUBE has two sides that practically never mix, a noise side and
an ambient side. A good start for the noise side is the double cd
compilation that came out on Iris Light, called Substructural Penetration.
Good introductions for the ambient side are Flare (based on lamps), Embers
(based on fire) or Bells (speaks for itself.... IMHO the best AUBE cd ever
made).

Best thing to do is go to the website
http://www.halcyon.com/tntmusic/aube.htm and follow the link to the record
labels. Most of them carry MP3 tracks where you can hear samples.

However, please note that 95% of his output is now out of print (all items
are on limited edition)

Best wishes


Stefan Verstraeten


-----Original Message-----
Sent: dinsdag 1 augustus 2000 18:02


hey,
i have a question about Aube.  i've only heard the album where he uses the
christian bible as his sound source.
  i didn't like it very much because the tracks i heard was just loops of
sounds.  he would have one sound looping.  and then, suprise!, another sound

overlapping that at the exact same loop rate.  it was somewhat interesting
but for the most part boring.
  still i have not closed my mind to Aube, but i was wondering if this album

is a good example or does he have more variety?
   i'm just looking to see if he has albums that are more engaging.
    thanks,
       samuel


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: scelsi/ferneyhough: recs?
Date: 02 Aug 2000 07:34:21 -0400

re Scelsi:  all the orchestral material is great, starting with Quattro
Pezzi (4 pieces on one note), and Anahit for violin and orch., and
especially the music with chorus and orchestra.  Ferneyhough's 3rd quartet
is up there with Carter, Ives, Bartok, also terrific is Chute d'Icare
(excuse any of the screwed-up spellings).  Ferneyhough has a solo guitar
piece in which, one movement at a time, individual strings are tuned off
precise quarter-tones.  while you're at it, check out some Lachenmann or
Sciarrino ...

At 05:15 AM 7/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:35:25 CDT
>From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: scelsi/ferneyhough: recs?
>
>Regarding Giacinto Scelsi:  recommendations and descriptions of other
>recordings would be most welcome.
>
>Also, what of this Ferneyhough fellow?

--steve

check out the cool new stuff on
http://www.stephendrury.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M. pathos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: the dreaming syndicate
Date: 02 Aug 2000 14:06:35 GMT

Whether Mr. MacLise was a "creative influence" or not is irrelevant. What
did HE do that innumerable other patchouli-redolent drug casualties of the
late '60s also couldn't have done? Nothing.

>Sorry, but I fail to see what comparisons of technical
musical ability have to do with creative influences in
music. Certainly Angus MacLise stands as a very important
persona in recent musical history, if only for his role in
the formation of the Velvet Underground, bridging the gap
between the 'avant-garde' of the Dream Syndicate and the
wider rock audience of the Velvets. Of course, John Cale
was also in on this, but interviews with Cale and the
other members have emphasised the importance of MacLise in
creating the group. This is a given!>

-


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: It's gonna rain...
Date: 02 Aug 2000 11:04:35 -0400

Speaking of people using the early Reich works nowadays (Come Out
used in a Tortoise remix)... DJ Logic uses the "It's gonna rain"
sample in his live performances pretty often.

Dan Hewins

NP: DJ Logic Project Logic 5.7.2000 Tipitina's, N.O., LA

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: It's gonna rain...
Date: 02 Aug 2000 16:44:52 GMT




>From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>

>Speaking of people using the early Reich works nowadays...


DJ Spooky samples "Come Out" on his piece on the Valis I: Destruction of
Syntax compilation

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Eskelin Query
Date: 02 Aug 2000 10:05:33 -0700

Which of Eskelin's Black/Parkins CDs on hatOLOGY is the essential one?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 02 Aug 2000 13:19:43 -0400

Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between
a trumpet and a cornet?

Thanks,
Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eskelin Query
Date: 02 Aug 2000 12:35:52 CDT

>From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
>Which of Eskelin's Black/Parkins CDs on hatOLOGY is the essential one?

My personal favorite of the three (?) to date is easily KULAK 29 & 30, which
is about an hour or so of Eskelin's (rather longish) compositions, recorded
live.  ONE GREAT DAY... and FIVE OTHER PIECES (+2) finish second and third.
Somehow KULAK comes across as more fun, synthetic (or "organix" if you
prefer).  I don't always prefer Eskelin's saxophone sound, but KULAK seems
to be the clearest document of a band really hitting new territory amidst a
slew of influences (the issue of influences, "diet", and processing one's
experiences and surroundings seems to be a serious creative concern for
Eskelin, judging from the music AND the liners), though I wouldn't say it's
reducible to "eclectic".  KULAK and ONE GREAT... are pretty damn terrific.

----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 02 Aug 2000 17:10:58 EDT

In a message dated Wed, 2 Aug 2000  1:25:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dan Hewins <[e-mail]> writes:

<< Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between
a trumpet and a cornet? >>


The trumpet has a much more "brassy" sound than does the cornet.
-

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: about merzbow..
Date: 02 Aug 2000 17:56:09 EDT

perhaps this is the incorrect place to post this message to, but i'm curious
if anyone knows where any of Masami Akita's writings are available?
I guess email me privately, unless you think it's relevant.

from,
matt
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins">MP3.com - matt wellins</A>
(http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "samuel yrui" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: about merzbow..
Date: 02 Aug 2000 17:08:55 CDT

well,
if anyone is gonna email this info private, please send it my way too.  i
didn't know akita had any published writings,other wise i would have asked
the same as matt.
  thanks.
    samuel





perhaps this is the incorrect place to post this message to, but i'm curious
if anyone knows where any of Masami Akita's writings are available?
I guess email me privately, unless you think it's relevant.

from,
matt
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins">MP3.com - matt wellins</A>
(http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins)

-


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Kirchmer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (MZC) Concert in Seattle on 8/12
Date: 02 Aug 2000 15:15:50 -0700

To all you Zorn heads in the Northwest,
I write to let y'all know about a cool upcomin' show in
Seattle.  So, without further adieu, here's the deal:
(and btw, "MZC" stands for "Marginal Zorn Content")

* On Saturday, August 12th, Peruvian Night Train Productions presents:

THREE DAY STUBBLE {San Francisco nerd-rock and beyond...}
VERY SPECIAL FORCES (Seattle - feat. Tim Young of Zony Mash)
KATO HIDEKI [Japan via NYC - with special guest(s)!]

* at the RAINBOW (NOT the Tractor as initially advertised, FYI...)
    722 NE 45th St. (@ Interstate 5) - 634-1761

10pm showtime ~ $7 DOS tickets

www.threedaystubble.com
www.veryspecialforces.com
http://www.xtr.com/extreme/kato.htm

On a long-term mission to confront, confuse and ultimately comfort its
battle-scarred audience, Three Day Stubble combines the most eccentric
extremes of Houston (the band's birthplace) and San Francisco (its adopted
home). Dressed in garish, clashing polyester plaids, the group's
self-actualization campaign has sometimes been hindered by the false
impression that its music is a joke. In the long run, Stubble's aggressive
lack of ego is more radically unsettling than all the razor blades and
spiked dog collars in punkdom. -- THE TROUSER PRESS GUIDE

"Comparisons and smiles abound when Very Special Forces take to the stage.
Their humorous, anything goes, rock-opera-styled pop is wide-ranging, ala
Ween, and often outrageously re-arranged & vocalized, a la Mr. Bungle.
You'll quickly realize, though, that describing these livewires along other
band's lines just doesn't cut it." - THE STRANGER (SEATTLE)

Any Questions?
contact James at
206-322-1783 or
[e-mail]
Rainbow website:
www.gogoweb.com/rainbow



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "ian r watson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 03 Aug 2000 00:40:49 +0100

As someone who plays the trumpet I should know, ..but how to describe it
....mmm ? ..a cornet is maybe halfway between trumpet and flugelhorn...the
flug being the most mellow sounding of the three...........it's still
difficult to make out the difference on many discs......some trumpet players
(Chet Baker) have a soft tone in between these instruments......Kenny
Wheeler plays all three.......I can never tell when he's playing cornet
although his trumpet and flug are fairly distinct. Don Cherry plays cornet
on a few of those 60's albums but without being told that I'm not sure I
could distinguish between the pocket trumpet....confused ?..........people
like Rob Mazurek play cornet nowadays and have that mellow trumpet
sound........it all gets a bit blurred or maybe my ears are getting
bad..........hope this helps.........Ian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 02 August 2000 18:19


> Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between
> a trumpet and a cornet?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan Hewins
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Zach Griffin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: about Merzbow
Date: 02 Aug 2000 19:56:56 -0400

I too would be interested in the Masami Akita writings.  So if it isn't any trouble, please send this info my way
as well.  I get the zornlist in digest form.  So if it has already been said to the whole list and I haven't
recieved the digest volume yet.  Then I apologize.

Zach Griffin




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ground zero last concert
Date: 02 Aug 2000 21:10:19 -0400

In the course of looking up some info on Otomo, I ran across a translation
of the liner notes from the Last Concert CD at
http://www.japanimprov.com/yotomo/groundzero/lastnotes-e.html.  Definitely
worth reading.  The whole Japanese Free Improvisers site has moved to
http://www.japanimprov.com, if you want to update your bookmarks/links
pages.

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Alas poor Angus we hardly knew ye...
Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:41:01 -0000

For anyone who is actually interested in what might have
set Angus MacLise apart from all the patchouli indolent,
drug addled hippies of the era, please check out:

http://www.lamontyoung.com/AMO.HTM

"Young people wonder how the adult world can be so boring.
The secret is that it is not boring to adults because they
have learnt to enjoy simple things like covert malice at
one another's expense. That is why they talk so much about
the value of human understanding and sympathy. It has a
certain rarity value in their world."

Celi

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Angus...
Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:48:29 -0000

Sorry, the link should be:

http://www.lamontyoung.com/AMOO.HTM

...and the quote is from Celia Green, don't know why but
my emails seem to show up missing the last 7 characters,
which means that you never.

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Not again!
Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:57:26 -0000

http://www.lamonteyoung.com/AM00.HTM

Sorry! Too much patchouli smoke and drug addling during my
mispent youth

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: otomo plays yamashita / k. abe : rec's requested
Date: 03 Aug 2000 01:45:59 CDT

Of the many available recordings---pref. on CD---of Kaoru (Kaol) Abe, I was
wondering if anyone could recommend and/or describe them to me.  I asked
this question once before, but I believe it was quite some time ago (I had
no luck dredging the archives), and before the fairly recent release of much
of the PSF stuff. (Is this reissue material from the DIW 10-vol. initial
posthumous releases?  Or is all the PSF stuff additional to the DIW?)  I was
particularly drawn to the slightly pricey

ABE, KAOL, Partitas Unfinished [VIVID SOUND (JAPAN)],2CD,
"New reissue of Kaol (or Kaoru) Abe's Well Tempered Alto-Saxophone Suite. It
was recorded in March of 1973, but Abe considered it unfinished and it was
not issued until 11 years after his death, in 1989."  [from
forcedexposure.com]

Sorry, too, if I simply missed discussion of this:

YOSHIHIDE, OTOMO, Plays The Music of Takeo Yamashita [P-VINE RECORDS]
(JAPAN) "Yamashita was a composer who among other things wrote music for
various Japanese TV shows..."

I noticed it's Otomo's "New Jazz Quintet".  What does it sound like?
Hrvatski wavered a little.  Is it all power, all the time?

Thanks in advance, as always,

-----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Eskelin Query
Date: 03 Aug 2000 09:59:39 CEST

>My personal favorite of the three (?) to date is easily KULAK 29 & 30,
>which
>is about an hour or so of Eskelin's (rather longish) compositions, recorded
>live.  ONE GREAT DAY... and FIVE OTHER PIECES (+2) finish second and third.

there┤s a fourth one 'Ramifications' which was released recently. The trio
is added by Joe Daley on tuba and Erik Friedlander on cello. Unfortunately,
I haven┤t heard it so far.

Andreas
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Caine Review
Date: 03 Aug 2000 12:21:55 +0200 (MET DST)

My review of the Uri Caine Goldberg project has just been put up on the
Motion website. Have a look, =B4cuz I sure do love this record and want
people to know about it.

http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/639.html

All the best, Stephen





---------

Richard Pettersson
Department of History of Science and Ideas
Ume=E5 University
S-901 87 Ume=E5, Sweden
Phone: [phone]
Telfax: 046 90 14 33 74

E-mail: [e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: otomo plays yamashita / k. abe : rec's requested
Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:18:25 -0400

>wondering if anyone could recommend and/or describe them to me.

Other Music has RealAudio samples of the Abe available, along with a lot of other interesting material.

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:53:20 -0400

Can someone describe what a "brassy" sound is?

><< Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between
>a trumpet and a cornet? >>
>
>The trumpet has a much more "brassy" sound than does the cornet.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:52:29 -0400

This is the kind of confusion I experience... I once thought that the
cornet was a harsher sound which would put the trumpet between the
cornet and the flugelhorn (which is easy to hear as different than
the other two).  Except that on a scale of 1 to 10 where flugel is 1
and cornet is 10, I'd place the trumpet at 9.5.  I can't really tell
the difference.  I thought I could a little when I first heard the
Herbie Hancock album "Empyrean Isles" where Freddie Hubbard plays the
cornet but I don't know... Is the fact that there are two different
instruments a historical issue or something else?

Dan Hewins




At 12:40 AM +0100 8/3/00, ian r watson wrote:
>sound........it all gets a bit blurred or maybe my ears are getting
>bad..........hope this helps.........Ian
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
>To: Zorn List <[e-mail]>
>Sent: 02 August 2000 18:19
>Subject: trumpet vs. cornet
>
>
>>  Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between
>  > a trumpet and a cornet?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 03 Aug 2000 10:16:41 -0400

On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:53:20AM -0400, Dan Hewins wrote:
> Can someone describe what a "brassy" sound is?
>
> ><< Can someone describe the difference in sound (as you hear it) between
> >a trumpet and a cornet? >>
> >
> >The trumpet has a much more "brassy" sound than does the cornet.

I suspect that "brassy" means sounding more like a trumpet than like a
cornet.

:-)

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 03 Aug 2000 08:27:36 -0700

http://library.thinkquest.org/10693/difference.html



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: trumpet vs. cornet
Date: 03 Aug 2000 13:29:31 EDT

In a message dated 8/3/00 10:56:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Can someone describe what a "brassy" sound is? >>

Hmmm...that's a good question.  You play an instrument for years (trombone
for me) and never expect to get hit with that one...

I suspect one could go into the physics of the sound differences- the
harmonics, overtones, etc., something I'm not very well versed in.  I guess
the best description is the attribute of a "bell-like" sound to its sound
character- if that makes any sense.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: "experimental cuba"
Date: 03 Aug 2000 18:53:53 -0400

Hello list,

    after listening to Buena Vista Social Club, I came to the conclusion that
cuban music was something worth studying.... so, I decided to give the
"experimental side" of it a try.

    I purchased Marc Ribot y los CUbanos Postizos Last album and liked it a
lot, so I bought their first album and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba.
They're relly great and I was wondering what other "experimental" (or simply
wonderful/great) cuban music CDs you'd recommend.

Thanks in advance

Neil
----


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: 2L <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "experimental cuba"
Date: 04 Aug 2000 01:10:25 +0200

> and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba.

I'm wondering how this one sounds like? Are the cuban roots still there or are the
ambient and/or dub sounds the biggest part of it? In other words, is the Laswell
translation far away from the original tunes or not? Same question with the
translations of Irish Music Laswell recently put out if somebody has an answer to
submit.
TIA
Laurent SDZ




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Reuben Radding <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "experimental cuba"
Date: 03 Aug 2000 16:12:02 -0700

Try Eddie Palmieri & Friends - Live At The University of Puerto Rico.

Good salsa. Very out at times, IMHO.

-RR


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Douglas Tapia <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "experimental cuba"
Date: 03 Aug 2000 17:48:25 -0600


>> and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba.
>
>I'm wondering how this one sounds like? Are the cuban roots still there or
>are the
>ambient and/or dub sounds the biggest part of it? In other words, is the
>Laswell
>translation far away from the original tunes or not?

These are really nice mixes of a variety of great "street recordings."
Laswell layers different recordings and applies his regular "atmosphere"
(big reverbs, delays, environmental sounds, etc.)

There are some really nice bi-tonalitys and polyrythmic things that
happen as a result of Laswell's combination of carefully selected bits of
material.  Also, there is less dub style playing on this one (though I
would describe the production style as "progressive dub"--sorry about
that)  All in all, I feel that "Imaginary Cuba" approaches Cuban music
with the respect and understanding that this music deserves.

FWIW, "Imaginary Cuba" along with "Hallucination Engine" are probably my
favorite Laswell CDs for pure listening enjoyment, though "Hallucination
Engine" is perhaps more of a Scopoletus (sp?) CD than anything else.

-Doug

n.p. Coltrane "Crecent"

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "experimental cuba"
Date: 04 Aug 2000 00:08:43 GMT




>From: 2L <[e-mail]>

>>and Bill Laswell's Imaginary Cuba.
>
>I'm wondering how this one sounds like? Are the cuban roots still there or
>are the
>ambient and/or dub sounds the biggest part of it?

Laswell has a number Cuban project called Havana Mood, which has Cuban
musicians playing straight up.  He and Jean Touitou did a remix of that
session called Rhum n' Bass.  Both are packaged together released by APC,
and I think Bruce Gallanter has copies at Downtown Music.  Imaginary Cuba is
better than Rhum n' Bass, though Havana Mood is a good one to have.


>Same question with the
>translations of Irish Music Laswell recently put out if somebody has an
>answer to
>submit.

I'd give this one a miss.  The remix ends up sounding pretty "New Agey."
I've only played my copy once and can't bring myself to try it again.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: "experimental cuba"
Date: 03 Aug 2000 20:27:52 EDT

In a message dated Thu, 3 Aug 2000  6:53:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]> writes:

<< I was wondering what other "experimental" (or simply
wonderful/great) cuban music CDs you'd recommend.

Thanks in advance >>

1999's Tony Martinez and The Cuban Power's _Mafarefun_ is absolutely phenomenal- one of the best Latin jazz CDs ever, IMO.  Tito Puente/Eddie Palmieri's just-released _Masterpiece/Obra Maestra_ is a great fusion of Latin dance and jazz with a wall of horns.  Irakere is hit and miss, but the _Best of_ on Columbia and _Live at Ronnie Scott's_ are both great outings.  Puente's _Mambo Birdland_ is another worth checking out.  Chucho Valdes and Paquito Rivera (both ex-Irakere) both have several albums worth checking out.  Cubanismo! have 3 CDs of pre-Castro-styled music that are all wonderful.  NG LaBanda (an offshoot of Irakere) have 3 CDs that are great.  Machete Ensemble...did I mention them...?

I'll think of more in the next few hours...;-)

-

=dg=


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ground zero last concert
Date: 04 Aug 2000 00:32:37 GMT




>From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>

>In the course of looking up some info on Otomo, I ran across a translation
>of the liner notes from the Last Concert CD at
>http://www.japanimprov.com/yotomo/groundzero/lastnotes-e.html.  Definitely
>worth reading.

I agree.  I particularly concur with Sasaki's interpretation of the piece as
follows (even though he backs off of it in the next paragraph,
unfortunately):

"Surely, though, that was what Otomo intended. This was the performance in
which he literally let us hear the process of Ground Zero's "dissolving."
This album records the transformation of the aggregate called Ground Zero
from an orchestra to an oscillator. Towards the end of the gig, the sine
waves surge like the waves of the sea, washing over the entire performance.
Finally, only sound remains."
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: cornet v. trumpet: a layman's technical explanation
Date: 03 Aug 2000 18:44:10 -0700

Generally, from my remedial understanding:

Trumpet. The metal tubing is the same diameter from the mouthpiece
until it starts to flare into the bell. A combination of the tubing
diameter and the number of turns in the tubing combine to give it more
high overtones hence a brighter, brassier sound.

Cornet. The diameter of the tubing increases as you trace it from the
mouthpiece toward the bell, softening some of the higher overtones you
get with a trumpet. On the other hand, the cornet typically has more
twists in the tubing, which gives it a little punchier sound -- and
perhaps a less full midrange of overtones -- than the trumpet. (The
pocket trumpet has a hell of a lot of curves -- but the same length of
tubing as a trumpet. Comparing the two, you can here what all those
curves do to the sound -- basically, make it less rich, less full.
Pocket trumpets are typically more difficult to play in tune than
trumpets.)

Flugelhorn. The diameter of the tubing increases, even more
dramatically, than the cornet, hence the "mellow" sound (softening of
higher overtones). Additionally, there are fewer curves and they are at
broader angles, so it has a very rich palate of midrange overtones.
Generally less attractive in sound in the upper register than the above
horns.

Satchmo note: Louis Armstrong writes in one of his biographies, if
memory serves, as though the cornet was an inferior instrument and
speaks of graduating to the trumpet. The trumpet has the broadest range
of sounds most easily accessible....

Martin

np. GOP convention as heard from several dozen TV's in press pavilion
#1 at the First Union Center, Philadelphia.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: otomo plays yamashita / k. abe : rec's requested
Date: 03 Aug 2000 22:27:33 EDT

i've heard Otomo Plays Yamashita, I'm not sure what to say about it. It's a
particularly long album, very diverse, jazz, reggae, pop, and of course, much
stranger things. I have to admit that I don't listen to it much. I'm not
exactly sure why, though. I'd much sooner reccomend Otomo's Cathode on
Tzadik, which is much easier to locate, among other things.

from,
matt
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins">MP3.com - matt wellins</A>
(http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins)
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins2">MP3.com - experiment in real time</A
> (http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins2)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:experimental Cuba
Date: 04 Aug 2000 03:06:37 -0000

 I was wondering what other "experimental" (or simply
>wonderful/great) cuban music CDs you'd recommend.

Try 'Biyumba Palo Congo' & 'Live at the Village Vanguard'
from the inspired pianist Chucho Valdes, or 'Yemaya', a
recent release from Irakere, his salsa/jazz ban

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MartinS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Killer Joey
Date: 04 Aug 2000 10:39:47 +0200

Last night I saw Joeys new band Killer Joey in Frankfurt/Germany. As you
might now this is Joey with Steve Cardenas on guitar, Tony Scherr on bass
and Brad Shepik replacing Adam Levy on guitar. The lineup suggests that this
might be a completely new approach. But it's basically a followup band from
his latest recodings. It is almost the same, very groove-orientated, solo
after solo stuff. But not bad (I could not imagine ever listening to Joey
and not enjoying it). Steve really rocked on some pieces, playing really
loud. I specially liked Brads playing, which was not so loud and very
interesting.

I think Joey prefers playing without using a PA system. This is great for
small club gigs because the sound is very intimate. Yesterdays concert was a
open-air gig with about more than 200 people listening. Playing without a
sound system resulted in a overall bad balanced sound specially from the
farther seats. So I found myself standing right in front of the stage trying
to catch the stage sound (which was cool).

Joey sold CDs of this band from the bandstand. The Killer Joey CD is
basically like a home made recording, sound quality is not really great. But
I like the idea of recording such a CD and selling it directly to the fans
at gigs. The people pulled the CDs out of Joeys hands, he must have sold
quite a few of them. This is really cool because the money goes directly to
the band and fans don't have to wait almost for years until some silly
recording company sets up its release strategy and puts out a CD.
BTW I heard that most of the DIW/Avant stuff and the whole Tzadik catalog is
no longer available in germany due to the crash of the german distribution
company 99records (no 'Live in Sevilla' - bah). So where is the good news?

--martin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "experimental cuba"
Date: 04 Aug 2000 12:24:57 +0200

For a real experimental cuban music/improv mix, I would recommend "Fidel" by=
=20
Koch/Schutz/Studer & Musicos Cubanos on Intakt records.

Hans Koch: Clarinets, Saxophones, Electronics, Samples, Tapes, Sequencer
Martin Sch=FCtz: Electric 5string Cello, Acoustic Cello, Electronics,=
 Samples
Fredy Studer: Drums, Percussion
+ Musicos Cubanos (voc, tres, perc, choir...)

Much more experimental than Ribot's cuban albums.

I also like a lot Steve Coleman's "The Sign and the Seal" (BMG/RCA Victor)
for its mix=20
between Coleman's typical approach to jazz, yoruba musical traditions (the
cuban group=20
AfroCuba de Matanzas) and rap (Kokayi on vocals).

Hope it helps.

Pascal Cortes (First post on the list)

NP: Die Like a Dog Quartet "From Valley to Valley"



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Playboy discovers Ribot...
Date: 04 Aug 2000 06:52:21 -0700 (PDT)

    Playboy has given Marc Ribot a "tip of the hat"
for his latest release... Just a small article... if
anyone is interested.

-That which is Theo

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Benjamin Pequet <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: about merzbow..
Date: 04 Aug 2000 13:58:12 -0400

>perhaps this is the incorrect place to post this message to, but i'm curious
>if anyone knows where any of Masami Akita's writings are available?
>I guess email me privately, unless you think it's relevant.

I would like to extend the question even if this is the incorrect place. His
domains of predilection are pop culture and sexual perversions, he has
published for magazines and books. He produced videos as well. I have heard
of installations and cd-roms too. A short list of his publications can be
found at http://www.xtr.com/extreme/merzbow.htm but doesn't seem to have
ever been updated. I would be very surprised to hear than anything has been
translated?

The two most comprehensive resources on the internet re. merzbow are,
besides mailing-lists dedicated to merzbow of course,
http://noiseweb.com/merzbow/ (interviews, very sensible reviews of the
material) and http://www.hut.fi/~omertalo/Merzbow.html (discography and
contacts).

PS sorry if this is old news, but digest version of the list plus messages
bouncing back and forth with majordomo, ... it has probably been mentioned
that Masami Akita makes the cover of the Wire of this month and has a long
interview (mostly taken from the merzbook though).



--


>> powered by http://skim.com <<
____________________________________________
skim.com - where your shirt is your address.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xu Feng
Date: 04 Aug 2000 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT)

    Does anyone know what this album is about?  CDNOW
has it for release in September, but I haven't heard
anything about it.  New Material perhaps?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xu Feng
Date: 04 Aug 2000 11:26:13 -0700


On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT)  Theo Klaase wrote:
>
>     Does anyone know what this album is about?  CDNOW
> has it for release in September, but I haven't heard
> anything about it.  New Material perhaps?

According to Bruce Gallanter/DMG (February 1999):

    "[...] A new Tzadik series for new versions of his game
    pieces like "Xu Feng" and "Curling" will also be in the works."

The only thing on record concerning this game piece is:


131 - (Y)EARBOOK volume 2: compilation of improvisation

  This record features improvisations by Chris Jonas/Daniel Sarid, John Zorn
  Ensemble, Ben Goldberg, The Molecules, Steve Adams, Morphic Resonance,
  Miguel Frasconi, Pierre Dorge, Robert Marsanyi, Mike Hovancsek, Krystyna
  Bodrowski, Keith Rowe, Anything Goes Orchestra.

    2/ Xu Feng (excerpt)                        (Zorn)                   5:50

    Recorded live at the Great American Music Hall, San Francisco on September
    9, 1991
    Produced by Gino Robair

  John Zorn: conductor; Myles Boisen: guitar; Gannon Hall: drums; Bob
  Ostertag: sampler; David Slusser: electronics; Trey Spruance: guitar;
  William Winant: percussion.

    1992 - Rastascan Records (USA), BRD009 (CD)

  Note: "The favorite actress of legendary director King Hu, Xu Feng was one
  of the biggest stars in the Chinese film industry and more recently has
  become a powerful producer. Game pieces after COBRA tended to be more
  tangible than abstract, more dramatic, and this piece, written directly
  after COBRA, focuses in on strategic elements resulting in a fast paced
  competitive game not unlike the kung fu films Xu Feng starred in. The intro-
  duction of sound MODIFIERS and the special instrumentation (although it has
  been done with six drummers) helps give the piece a distinctive identity."
                                                (John Zorn)

Since I doubt that John gives concerts of excerpts from his game piece, there
are at least two versions of XU FENG, this one and the one from the Zorn month
at the KF in 1993.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: big gundown reissue
Date: 04 Aug 2000 15:23:04 EDT

I got the chance to check out an advance copy of Zorn's remastered and
expanded THE BIG GUNDOWN.  The artwork and booklet set a new standard for the
packaging of a Tzadik release.  The cover artwork is very much in the style
of a European film soundtrack and the booklet is packed with film stills,
poster art and information on Morricone and Zorn.  Definitely something to
look forward to!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Xu Feng
Date: 04 Aug 2000 21:36:07 +0200

Hi Philozorners,

> Does anyone know what this album is about?  CDNOW
> has it for release in September, but I haven't heard
> anything about it.  New Material perhaps?

To my knowledge it was recorded in May in San Francisco, the lineup
is:

Chris BROWN:  keyboards
Dave LOMBARDO:  drums
Fred FRITH:  guitar
David SLUSSER:  keyboards
Trey SPRUANCE:  guitar
William WINANT:  percussion

Xu Feng is a game-piece "composed" in 1985 (!). You can find Zorn's
comment on this piece at http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/zornfest/
. It's inspired by kung-fu movies directed by King Hu with actress Xu
Feng. I have a live audience recording of it from 1999, and it's
great! Very loud, wild, lots of fast drums (Lombardo, what do you
expect!), weird sounds on guitars, sampling... I already know this
will be one of my favourite Zorn records. I can hardly wait!!!

    __________________________________________________________________
    Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
    NP: MMW "Tonic"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Xu Feng
Date: 04 Aug 2000 21:42:19 +0200

> Since I doubt that John gives concerts of excerpts from his
> game piece, there
> are at least two versions of XU FENG, this one and the one
> from the Zorn month at the KF in 1993.

I know about two more: Zorn performed it in SF on September 16th last
year
(http://www.emd.pl/emd/pl4/artists/z/zorn_john/live/19980916.htm), and
in New England Conservatory, Boston, on February 5th 1996
(htt
p://www.newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/html/1996q1/0046.html).
The first one exists in two recorded versions, one is from the
soundboard (Zorn doesn't want to give it away), the other from the
audience, but still enjoyable (I have it :-). Great piece! A must-have
for Philozorners!!!

    __________________________________________________________________
    Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada and MMW management
Date: 04 Aug 2000 18:36:38 -0400

Hello All,

  I need to contact somebody from Masada and MMW management people. Do
  you know any e-mails of them?

Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: next Unheard Music Series releases
Date: 04 Aug 2000 21:29:19 EDT

from www.atavistic.com, the next wave of reissues on John Corbett's new=20
label, all due out Sept. 5:

Han Bennink, *Nerve Beats* (UMS/ALP206CD) Recorded for Germany's Radio Breme=
n=20
in 1973, in the period when Bennink was storming Europe in a trio with Peter=
=20
Br=F6tzmann and Fred van Hove, Nerve Beats is a great recording never before=
=20
issued on CD; it comes from a time when Bennink deployed a gigantic setup:=20
metal percussion, tons of extra drums, tablas, an early drum-machine, as wel=
l=20
as non-percussive instruments like trombone, clarinet & various=20
impossible-to-describe objects. A three-track live concert recorded in its=20
entirety at the acoustically ideal Rathaus, Nerve Beats is also the only liv=
e=20
document available of Han performing solo at this time, as his early FMP and=
=20
ICP records are now out of print (and decidedly sought-after).=20

Leo Cuypers, *Heavy Days Are Here Again Reissue* (UMS/ALP207CD) Leo Cuypers,=
=20
pianist and composer from southern Holland, is one of the great unsung heroe=
s=20
of Dutch creative music - as a bandleader, solo pianist and member of the=20
first incarnation of the Willem Breuker Kollektief. Heavy Days Are Here Agai=
n=20
was a project that brought Bennink and Breuker (who made the first ICP=20
record, New Acoustic Swing Duo, together as a twosome back in the '60s) back=
=20
together after a somewhat fractious split, and reunited Cuypers with Breuker=
=20
as well. The band toured, made a national TV appearance, then recorded this=20
absolutely killing studio LP in 1981 for reedist Breuker's label, BVHAAST=20
Records.=20

Nachtluft, *Belle-View I-IV Reissue* (UMS/ALP208CD) Nachtluft was a=20
Zurich-based trio, consisting of G=FCnter M=FCller on electronic percussion,=
=20
Jacques Widmer on acoustic percussion, and Andres Bosshard on a unique=20
cassette machine setup (and speakers distributed around the room) and all=20
three musicians on metal! Self-described as "project for two drummers and=20
live-electronics in an all-over installation," they formed in '86.=20

Tracked in 1986 during a live concert, and hardly known in its day,=20
Belle-View is so ass-kicking that John Corbett has selected it as the initia=
l=20
release in a UMS miniseries: "Unheard Greats of Swiss Electroacoustic=20
Improvised Music". Other upcoming releases in this miniseries include two=20
lost Voice Crack LPs, and a totally unknown record by the obscure, wonderful=
=20
Planet Oeuf, M=FCller's first band, which included British improvisors Phil=20
Wachsmann and Phil Durrant.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sonic Youth recommendations?
Date: 05 Aug 2000 13:47:53 -0700

I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some
recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd
be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with.

Merci.

Martin

np. Louis Armstrong w/ Earl Hines "1928" (Smithsonian records)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonic Youth recommendations?
Date: 05 Aug 2000 14:26:15 -0700

[e-mail] wrote:

> I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some
> recommendations.

I prefer early-to-middle SY, though I haven't bought the last two Geffen
albums. In order of preference:

EVOL
Daydream Nation
Sister
Goo
...after that point, it gets to the albums I haven't listened to in
years, so why bother rating them.

William Crump


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: freddie redd's "ole"
Date: 06 Aug 2000 14:56:41 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFFFB6.87F6EA60
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Can anyone tell me where I can find the original recording of the tune =
"Ole", which Zorn, Frisell and Lewis play on "News For Lulu"?

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFFFB6.87F6EA60
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone tell me where I can find the =
original=20
recording of the tune "Ole", which Zorn, Frisell and Lewis play on "News =
For=20
Lulu"?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFFFB6.87F6EA60--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave Egan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: freddie redd's "ole"
Date: 05 Aug 2000 22:12:44 -0700

You're looking for "Shades Of Redd".  This was just re-released on Blue Note
Japan but I think it's out of print elsewhere.

>Can anyone tell me where I can find the original recording
>of the tune "Ole", which Zorn, Frisell and Lewis play on
>"News For Lulu"?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Graves <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sonic Youth Recomendations
Date: 06 Aug 2000 01:37:06 -0400 (EDT)

I'm not a big SY fan, but I REALLY like Daydream Nation. And although it
isn't very represenational of their total output, Goodbye 20th Century is
a wonderful foray into SY's take on 20th century art music adding a harsh
rock edge to pieces by Reich, Cage and even Yoko Ono.

Jamie


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: recent purchases
Date: 06 Aug 2000 21:21:43 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFFFEC.518FB340
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A few comments...

- Jamie Saft "Sovlanut" - I really enjoyed his brilliant work with =
Previte and not so obviously brilliant but still pretty good work with =
Zorn, so I ordered this album basically as soon as I heard it was =
coming. Maybe it will grow a bit on me, but after a few listens I'm a =
bit disappointed. There are a few interesting bits, especially the more =
melodic parts, but generally it gets a bit repetitive... Also features =
Jim Black and Chris Speed.

- Uri Caine/La Gaia Scienza "Love Fugue" - This is truly strange, even =
after hearing Caine's other classical/jazz works. Here he takes a =
different approach, and basically turns the Schumann's Dichterleibe into =
quirky pop songs. The basic group is Uri Caine (piano), David Gilmore =
(guitar) and Mark Ledford (vocals). The vocals are a bit 'cheesy' and =
may put people off. David Moss weirds the recording up a bit with some =
growling noises over 3 of the tracks (any recommendations of other stuff =
this guy's done?) and there's also some tracks featuring poets. Oh, I =
almost forgot, for some reason, the four movements of the Piano Quartet =
Op. 47 are inserted in at various points, played straight by La Gaia =
Scienza.

- Medeski, Martin & Wood "Best Of 1991-1996" - I've always liked a =
couple of tracks off each album, but never enough to actually go out and =
buy them. So, this was pretty perfect for me! It's got one track off =
their first album, 3 or 4 each off the next 3, one off their Bubblehouse =
EP, and one live track...

- Rahsaan Roland Kirk "Dog Years In The Fourth Ring" - I got this 3 CD =
set because I wanted to get more into Kirk's work, and I noticed that it =
contained stuff that other people had covered, like 'Breath-A-Thon' (on =
Dave Douglas' latest trio album) and Bacharach's 'I Say A Little Prayer' =
(on Ground Zero "Plays Standards"), as well as some Coltrane, Monk and =
Miles tunes which I figured would be interesting to hear by Kirk. =
Anyway, what I didn't know is that the third CD is actually "Natural =
Black Inventions: Root Strata", which features Kirk playing nearly =
everything himself (with no overdubs, that is) and playing all sorts of =
horns at once, plus a lot of percussion. Towards the end it gets a bit =
stale, but it's certainly an interesting CD, and a great bonus for "Dog =
Years..."


Julian.
http://www.hartingdale.com.au/~jcurwin

------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFFFEC.518FB340
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A few comments...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Jamie Saft "Sovlanut" - I really =
enjoyed his=20
brilliant work with Previte and not so obviously brilliant but still =
pretty good=20
work with Zorn, so I ordered this album basically as soon as I heard it =
was=20
coming. Maybe it will grow a bit on me, but after a few listens I'm =
a bit=20
disappointed. There are a few interesting bits, especially the more =
melodic=20
parts, but generally it gets a bit repetitive... Also features Jim Black =
and=20
Chris Speed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Uri Caine/La Gaia Scienza "Love =
Fugue" - This is=20
truly strange, even after hearing Caine's other classical/jazz works. =
Here he=20
takes a different approach, and basically turns the Schumann's =
Dichterleibe into=20
quirky pop songs. The basic group is Uri Caine (piano), David Gilmore =
(guitar)=20
and Mark Ledford (vocals). The vocals are a bit 'cheesy' and may put =
people off.=20
David Moss weirds the recording up a bit with some growling noises over =
3 of the=20
tracks (any recommendations of other stuff this guy's done?) and there's =
also=20
some tracks featuring poets. Oh, I almost forgot, for some reason, the =
four=20
movements of the Piano Quartet Op. 47 are inserted in at various points, =
played=20
straight by La Gaia Scienza.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Medeski, Martin & Wood "Best Of =
1991-1996" -=20
I've always liked a couple of tracks off each album, but never enough to =

actually go out and buy them. So, this was pretty perfect for me! It's=20
got one track off their first album, 3 or 4 each off the next 3, =
one off=20
their Bubblehouse EP, and one live track...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Rahsaan Roland Kirk "Dog Years In The =
Fourth=20
Ring" - I got this 3 CD set because I wanted to get more into Kirk's =
work, and I=20
noticed that it contained stuff that other people had covered, like=20
'Breath-A-Thon' (on Dave Douglas' latest trio album) and Bacharach's 'I =
Say A=20
Little Prayer' (on Ground Zero "Plays Standards"), as well as some =
Coltrane,=20
Monk and Miles tunes which I figured would be interesting to hear by =
Kirk.=20
Anyway, what I didn't know is that the third CD is actually "Natural =
Black=20
Inventions: Root Strata", which features Kirk playing nearly everything =
himself=20
(with no overdubs, that is) and playing all sorts of horns at once, plus =
a lot=20
of percussion. Towards the end it gets a bit stale, but it's certainly =
an=20
interesting CD, and a great bonus for "Dog Years..."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Julian.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.hartingdale.com.au/~jcurwin">http://www.hartingdale.co=
m.au/~jcurwin</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFFFEC.518FB340--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Fruitman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Seeking Merzbow Burn
Date: 06 Aug 2000 12:28:45 +0100

Has anyone got a copy of Merzbow & Christoph Heeman, _Sleeper Awakes on the
Edge of the Abyss_ (Streamline 10003 CD) from 1993 that they could make a
CDr of for me? Your efforts will be richly rewarded....

All the best, Stephen








----------------------


----------------------

############
P=E4r Eliasson
Department of History of Science and Ideas
Ume=E5 University
S-901 87 Ume=E5
Tel [phone]
=46ax ([phone]
E-Mail: [e-mail]
############



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Seeking Merzbow Burn
Date: 06 Aug 2000 10:35:40 EDT

hi, Stephen.

<< Has anyone got a copy of Merzbow & Christoph Heeman, _Sleeper Awakes on the

Edge of the Abyss_ (Streamline 10003 CD) from 1993 that they could make a

CDr of for me? Your efforts will be richly rewarded.... >>

I have this, and I could make you a copy, but if you're basing this on David
Keenan's ludicrous description of this in the new Wire as not only the best
Merzbow record, but also the best Heemann record, you're almost definitely
going to be sadly disappointed. it's one of the least consequential records
from the first wave of Streamlines (many of which are essential, the two
Intersystems and the Morphogenesis come to mind first), before Anomalous took
over the label. it tries to be atmospheric and ambient, but I've never
thought it added up to much. I played it again after reading Keenan's review,
but my opinion still holds, and I even talked to some other Merzbow and/or
Heemann fans (both of which I'd consider myself, to varying degrees). no one
has any idea what he's talking about. anyway, if you're still interested,
contact me offlist.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

P.S. the best Merzbow CDs, not even mentioned in Keenan's top 10, are the two
volumes of Music For Bondage Performance (Extreme).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recent purchases
Date: 06 Aug 2000 13:43:59 -0400

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I would add that NBI:RS is also the Kirk album that Zorn cites in the notorious
Radio Show cd.  I've been enjoying "Blacknuss" myself lately, and
have got my eye on the Mercury box set.  I've really listened to the
Dog Years box more than any other Kirk...and have heard the Warner Brothers
compilation and the Mercury "two-fer" of "Don't You Cry Beautiful Edith..."
but not much else.
<p>Any nice and obscure Kirk references out there?
<p>Matt
<br>
<p>Julian wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1> Anyway, what
I didn't know is that the third CD is actually "Natural Black Inventions:
Root Strata", which features Kirk playing nearly everything himself (with
no overdubs, that is) and playing all sorts of horns at once, plus a lot
of percussion. Towards the end it gets a bit stale, but it's certainly
an interesting CD, and a great bonus for "Dog Years..."</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1><a href="http://www.hartingdale.com.au/~jcurwin"></a></font></font> </blockquote>

</body>
</html>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recent purchases
Date: 06 Aug 2000 14:08:05 -0400

Matt Laferty wrote:

> Any nice and obscure Kirk references out there?

Just to add that NBI:RS has always been my favorite Rahsaan record and I
was pleasantly surprised that the track Zorn plays on the Radio Hour
disc is "Black Root", is one of my single favorite pieces of music ever.
As is another of his selections, the Mantler/Sanders collaboration,
'Preview'.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Jon Gibson, Two Solo Pieces

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Big Gundown
Date: 06 Aug 2000 18:21:09 GMT

Hey!

Somebody mentioned that he got his hands on a prerelease version of "The Big
Gundown 15th Aniversary". Could you enlighten us with a bit more information
about the bonustracks? Apparently they are newly recorded. Titles?
Musicians?

Thanks a lot!

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sonic Youth
Date: 06 Aug 2000 18:29:20 GMT

Hey!

About Sonic Youth, it seems I have a bit different attidue than most: I
think the new stuff is easily the best!
It seems many people thought they went kind of downhill when they gave up
the powertools and started in the more normal and melodic song vain.

I don't think so. I think as noise makers they are far from the top. Compare
the guitar work to the real master (my opinion) like Haino Keiji, Jojo,
Null, Yamamoto Seechi, Marc Ribot, Fred Frith and so on, Lee and Thurston
seems rather uniteresting. Especially if you check out some of the dreadfull
side projects and impro CDs.

But for melody, SY are great. One of my favorite's is "Experimental Jetset,
Trash And No Star" (I forgot the correct title, sorry). Probably their most
poppy one, also. But great songs! And they are great singer all three...
(about the lyrics I'm not so sure...)

But best of all is the new one "NYC Ghosts And Flowers". No noise at all
(more or less...), but very long minimal "psychedelic" pieces. And very
melodic. Sublimely produced by Jim O'Rourke... Lyrics are also quite good.

Just my 2 cents,
ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonic Youth recommendations?
Date: 06 Aug 2000 17:30:49 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:

> I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some
> recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd
> be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with.

My own preferences are as follows:

1. EVOL - My first SY and still my favorite.  Dark and disturbing, but
with enough of the nascent craftsmanship that would burst through in
'Daydream Nation' to make it more recommendable than the earlier
releases.  Tracks like "Tom Violence," "Shadow of a Doubt" (based on
Hitchcock's 'Strangers on a Train') and "Expressway to Yr. Skull" still
haunt me.

(The followup, 'Sister' is similar but has never gripped me so tightly as
this one.)

2. DAYDREAM NATION - Truly the breakthrough album, and the one to get if
you're only getting one.  This is where the early experimentalism is met
in equal measure to the structured songwriting to follow in subsequent
years.

3. GOO - Gets a bad rap for being the group's above-ground sellout album,
but frankly the pop songs are good ("Dirty Boots" and "Kool Thing" - the
latter with hilarious posturing by Public Enemy's Chuck D.) and there's
enough here of real interest (the slightly silly but touching encomium to
Karen Carpenter, "Tunic," and the dark, atmospheric "Disappearer") to
make it a worthwhile album.

(The followup, 'Dirty,' has its adherents, but I'm not one of them.
'Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star' is not quite as good as 'Goo'
but better than 'Dirty.')

4. A THOUSAND LEAVES - This one came after the disappointing 'Washing
Machine' and the woodshedding of the first few SYR EPs, and strikes me as
both a return to form and a wistful, almost valedictory set from an edgy
group finally easing into middle-aged maturity.  I enjoyed this one much
more than I expected to.

(Lots of people have good things to say about the new one, 'NYC Ghosts
and Flowers,' but this one struck me as a far more self-conscious attempt
to meld the experimental and the songful than did 'A Thousand Leaves,'
which to me sounded completely organic.  Don't know how much of that was
due to the presence of Jim O'Rourke as outside provocateur.)

Finally, many on this list have lauded the double CD of modern classical
"covers," but I've still not gotten around to that one.

Hope this is helpful to some extent.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Stanley Turrentine & the Three Sounds, "There Is No Greater Love,"
'Blue Hour - The Complete Sessions' (Blue Note)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recent purchases
Date: 06 Aug 2000 20:36:05 -0400

At 09:21 PM 8/6/00 +1000, Julian wrote:
>>>>
David Moss weirds the recording up a bit with some growling noises over 3
of the tracks (any recommendations of other stuff this guy's done?)
<<<<

This past week I listened to Full House, a series of duets with many of our
usual suspects (e.g., Frith, Zorn, Lindsay, etc.) and found his vocal
mannerisms a little wearing.  I prefer him on drums and percussion,
especially his work with guitarist John King, such as John King's Electric
World on Ear-Rational, and Texture Time, the Dense Band recording on
Intakt.  They feature him in more of a rock setting, where his vocals work
a little better for me, and where his drumming is much more in the
forefront.  His solo album on Intakt, My Favorite Things, isn't too bad,
and got generally good reviews when it came out (including one in Cadence).
 I've also got an improv album with Moss, King, and Otomo which is
interesting too.  Patrice has a good discography of him at
http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/artists/moss.david/discog.html, especially good at
listing all of his sideman dates.

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: next Unheard Music Series releases
Date: 06 Aug 2000 20:46:36 -0400

At 09:29 PM 8/4/00 EDT, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>Belle-View is so ass-kicking that John Corbett has selected it as the
initial
>release in a UMS miniseries: "Unheard Greats of Swiss Electroacoustic
>Improvised Music".                              ^^^^^

I'm not sure whether to be pleased that there are so many unheard greats in
Swiss electroacoustic improvised music, or to wonder what happened to the
unheard greats in electroacoustic improvised music from outside
Switzerland.  Must be a more well populated genre than I imagined.

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "abulafia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SY recomendations
Date: 06 Aug 2000 18:05:12 -0500

> I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some
> recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd
> be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with.


Well my list for this is long so lets try to sum up a bit, lets start at the
beginning.  I still have no problems recommending "Confusion is sex + kill
yr idols"  this is a great, rough, harsh record that has amazing depth under
a think layer of afrontive scrawl & bad recording.  From there "Bad moon
rising" & "Evol" area fine albums but probably better left to fill in the
gaps.  "Sister" & "Daydream Nation" are often sited by critics as there best
works, & they may well be.  Though not my all the time favorites they do
encapsulate what made SY an almost popular band.  That is, the synthesis of
pop construction and abstract, chaotic, post-modern punk.  These records
also hold the first hint of the future SY, that is the sea of phased-out
indy guitar swing, floting off into the mist,..... but just hints.  "Ciccone
Youth, the Whitey Album"  has been on various days my favorite.  Macbeth
stands as one of there best single efforts. (not to say "an effort at a
single")  Make "Goo" the last SY album you buy.  Many will try to lead you
astray by saying this is there best album.  IT'S A DAMN LIE! they had just
got signed, and recorded wonderful punk songs with a major label studio &
it's producer.  If you want to hear what "Goo" is supposed to sound like, go
rent "91' the year punk broke"  or seek out some bootlegs of that era.
Moving on, "Dirty" was my first favorite SY album, that & "Experimental, Jet
set...."  are also the most likely ones you are to find at any given used
bin.  either is a great investment.  "Dirty" is far more punk driven, in a
way it reminds me of Nirvana's "Nevermind".  "Experimental..." is much
quieter, but is so chalk full of hooks it's a instant hit.  But that being
said, it runs the danger of getting it's self played out.  From there Sonic
Youth entered there current era starting with "Washing Machine", "SYR1",
"SYR2", "SKR1", "A Thousand Leaves", "SYR3", "SYR4", & "NYC Ghost's &
Flowers"  I would not recommend SYR3 (it takes a high degree of patience),
SKR1 (it was a one off lark with little cohesiveness), or SYR4 (it is SY
performing works by other 20th century modern classical composers).  These
are nice in there proper context but are not there most striking works.  of
"Washing Machine", "SYR1", "SYR2", "A Thousand Leaves", & "NYC Ghosts &
Flowers", I have a hard time splitting these up in my mind in that they are
so connected conceptually.  Moving from one to the other is like seeing the
band conceive of and than execute new facets of music that seem like it
should be well know to us by now but has been turned around to face a
different goal other than just entertain us.  If a pool of Sonic Youth is to
be delved into this is certainly the deep end.  And of them I would say that
Washing Machine & NYC Ghosts & Flowers Might  be your best bet.
Sorry if I failed to pin down a sure fired winner for you but good luck, to
sum up again, my picks would be

Ciccone Youth
Sister
Daydream Nation
Dirty
Washing Machine
NYC Ghost's & Flowers
in no particular order
(though confusion is sex, experimental..., syr1,syr2, & a thousand leaves
are fine record too)

[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: La Monte Young in RealAudio
Date: 06 Aug 2000 22:05:20 -0500

It's not the bootleg quality release of the ensemble with Tony Conrad
and John Cale recently discussed on the list, but some of y'all may
be interested:

On Mappings, my weekly new music program on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>, La Monte
Young's composition: The Second Dream of the High-Tension Line
Stepdown Transformer from the Four Dreams of China. Available until
Sunday August 13 (shows change approximately 11 pm Greenwich -0700).

See you there then.

--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SY recomendations
Date: 07 Aug 2000 00:35:30 -0400



Re:

> > I'd like to delve into the pool of Sonic Youth and could use some
> > recommendations. Also, since I'll start at the used record stores, I'd
> > be glad to know which albums I needn't bother with.

I also would be interested in hearing some of the SY fans on the lists reports
of the Moore/Spooky/ONO shows recently.  Szwed poo-pooed one in the last wire...

I have found myself (a long-time Sonic Youth fan) getting more interested in the
side projects of the various members.  Certainly my favorite has to be Moore,
Jim Sauter, Don Deitrich's "Barefoot in the Head"

The record is intense and thoughtful and features hi-larious liner notes by
"Thomas Pynchon" (uh, huh...)  I also love the two solo guitar 45's that Moore
and Ranaldo put out on Table of the Elements.

So some obscure solo project recomendations would be nice to hear--

Matt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sonic Youth recommendations?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 00:37:33 EDT


In a message dated 8/6/00 5:34:39 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< the disappointing 'Washing Machine' >>

the thing about Sonic Youth, as I think I mentioned here the last time we had
this discussion, is that everyone seems to have different opinions on the
respective merits of their catalog. for instance, I think that Diamond Sea,
the epic closer on Washing Machine, is easily the best thing in their entire
catalog. I almost think you should just buy whichever full-length you find
cheapest.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Ong <[e-mail]>
Subject: david maranha
Date: 06 Aug 2000 23:52:33 -0400

Has anyone heard that new David Maranha disc? I'm wondering if it's
recommendable.

Thanks,
-eric.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: any sound files on web?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 01:54:27 -0400

Are there any good sources for sound files of "our" kind of music on the
Web?  Tried out Napster but that's far too haphazard and frustrating to be
of much use, esp since I had a dial-up modem and don't care about getting
legit releases.  Stuff on the web at least is around more than an hour or
two; I'm particularly fond of archived radio shows (though wish more would
do like WFMU and let you download rather than just stream the show).  I'm
more interested in rarities, live material or stuff not easily available
like the several collections of Bollywood songs.



Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm

"Where Do You Want to Go Today"
Somewhere you can never take me!



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Killer Joey
Date: 07 Aug 2000 08:57:51 +0200

Hello,

any idea where this cd can be purchased elsewhere?

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-----Original Message-----
Sent: vrijdag 4 augustus 2000 10:40


Last night I saw Joeys new band Killer Joey in Frankfurt/Germany. As you
might now this is Joey with Steve Cardenas on guitar, Tony Scherr on bass
and Brad Shepik replacing Adam Levy on guitar.
Joey sold CDs of this band from the bandstand. The Killer Joey CD is
basically like a home made recording, sound quality is not really great. But
I like the idea of recording such a CD and selling it directly to the fans
at gigs.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Date: 07 Aug 2000 13:23:43 CEST

>From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
>
>I would add that NBI:RS is also the Kirk album that Zorn cites in the
> >notorious Radio Show cd.  I've been enjoying "Blacknuss" myself >lately,
>and have got my eye on the Mercury box set. I've really listened to the Dog
>Years box more than any other >Kirk...and have heard the Warner Brothers
>compilation and the Mercury >"two-fer" of "Don't You Cry Beautiful
>Edith..." but
>not much else.
>
>Any nice and obscure Kirk references out there?

As a compilation I would highly recommend 'Talkin┤ Verve: Roots Of Acid
Jazz'. This is a Best Of... deserving the term. Other good choices not
mentioned so far are 'We Free Kings' (1961), 'Domino' (1962) and last but
not least 'Rip, Rig & Panic' (1965).

Andreas
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: has anyone heard this disc?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:33:49 +0200

Hello,

I spotted this cd on the other music website.

Did anyone hear this cd allready?

Thank you in advance,

Stefan Verstraeten

----excerpt from http://www.othermusic.com--------
Kahimi Karie "Tilt" CD (Polydor, Japan)
For her third proper full-length album, Kahimi Karie expands her
ever-widening sphere of collaborators even further, making "Tilt" her most
eclectic pop collection to date. Over the course of the album's 13 tracks,
Karie shoots off in several directions charting, for her at least, some new
territory. Includes songs written by and performed with Momus, Arto Lindsay,
Julien Ribot, and the Olivia Tremor Control.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Various items FS
Date: 07 Aug 2000 10:35:08 -0400

I have the following items for sale that
some on this list may be interested in.

All prices _US $_.  POSTAGE PAID within North America.
Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged.

If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$12 -- Caetano Veloso - "Estrangeiro" BRA CD (Universal Brazil) 1989
       [Excellent late 80's work.  Feat. Arto Lindsay, Bill Frisell,
       Marc Ribot & Nan=E1 Vasconcelos.  Prod. by Lindsay & Peter Shere=
r.]
$10 -- Caetano Veloso - "Circulad=F4" US CD (Elektra Nonesuch) 1991
       [Early 90's album feat. Gilberto Gil, Gal Costa, Arto Lindsay,
       Marc Ribot, Butch Morris, Riyuichi Sakamoto & Bebel Gilberto.
       Prod. by Lindsay.]
$15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992
$22 -- Felt - "Pictorial Jackson Review/Train Above The City" UK CD
       (Creation) 1988  [2 excellent Felt LPs on disc.  Out of print.]
$35 -- H.N.A.S. - "Gegenst=E4nde Fallen Zu Boden" GER CD (Dom Elchklang=
:
       dom ek 008) 1994  [Heemann & P. Li Khan w/ Andreas Martin, Frank
       Dommert and more.  Material from 1986 - 89 ... from the "Bitte
       Werfen Sie Ihren M=FCll Aus Dem Fenster" LP, "Neue deutsche Post
       Avantgarde" comp LP, "Ciguri" comp LP, and the "Face To Face V.2=
"
       LP (w/ Vox Populi).  Digipak.  Limited to 1000.  Out of print.]
$15 -- Loggerhead - "Demons In Rapture" AUS CD (Dr. Jim's) 1994
       [Excellent disc by Francois Tetaz (solo CD on Dorobo) & Milton M=
.
       Ambient, dub, dirge, drone, beats, noise & metallic rhythms ...
       think early Ice/Scorn crossed w/ the Young Gods.  Out of print.]
$12 -- Scorn - "Lick Forever Dog" UK CD (Earache UK: MOSH 61) 1992
       [Classic, dub-heavy, early material.  Out of print.]
$18 -- Stefan Tischler - "Excess Of Free Speech" CD (Extreme: xcd014) 1=
992
       [Early release on the Extreme label.  Out of print.]

more at:
[ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ]

Thanks for looking.


-Patrick
[e-mail]






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: otomo guitar solo ltd.
Date: 07 Aug 2000 11:13:25 CDT

I assume that a limited edition of fifty (50) is designed as either a cruel
joke on completists, or in Otomo's case, a cruel gift for one's family's
reunion.  Has anyone heard his extremely limited-edition solo guitar
recording (an Amoebic CD-r)?  The solo (?) guitar track from PLAYS STANDARDS
I remember being pretty insanely burning---was that Ayler?

Thanks in advance,

-----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 12:17:52 -0400

What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for
a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre.  Why
I'm asking _here_ is that I'm assuming that many of us will share
some of the same criteria of what constitutes "high points." (In
other words, I don't expect _anyone_ to say seriously that "Kenny G
did a fantastic thing with LA's 'Wonderful World'!")

So, what's a good survey of Satch's works?

--
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Miles Reissues
Date: 07 Aug 2000 11:39:28 -0400

I don't think I've seen this here yet, but... Columbia/Sony/whatever
last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun"
(with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25
years later than they should have, "Get Up With It".

"On the Corner" is essential stuff, his clattering funk explosion.

"Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the
propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved
Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement
through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On
Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near
Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork.

If you don't have them, get them. (If you do, does anyone know how they
compare to the previous domestic release of "On the Corner" and the
existing import CDs of "Get Up With It"?)

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Miles Reissues
Date: 07 Aug 2000 12:39:36 -0400

>and, for the first time in the States, about 25 years later than >they should have, "Get Up With It".

Do you mean CD?  I have a domestic LP release of this.  But they're all great albums.  Just think: in ten years there will be Super-Maxi-DVD releases of all the unedited 70s Miles recordings so we can make our own mixes!

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Miles Reissues
Date: 07 Aug 2000 19:40:50 +0200

Hi,
I see, Joseph, that i'm not the only '70s Miles maniac here... ;-) I must
say that this is the stuff that really excites me now.

Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Columbia/Sony/whatever
> last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun"
> (with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25
> years later than they should have, "Get Up With It".

Do you mean that there are extra tracks on 'on the corner'?! I think your
'extra tracks' refered to ' big fun', but still, one has to ask, you
understand me... that question is really critical...
And, BTW, is that record remastered in an interesting way? In fact: if i
have the 'columbia masterpieces' version, will i get any gain in sound
quality by getting that new one? (I'm alsolutely crazy about that stuff). I
have to say that the sound quality of that edition is really OK.
 I have the 'bitches brew' boxed set, and there are a few unreleased tunes
coming from the sessions that 'big fun' is from. Are there any new tunes
compared to the boxed set edition? I hope not...

> "On the Corner" is essential stuff, his clattering funk explosion.

Well... I can't agree more. Seriously recommended. Really a reccord that
can't be overestimated.
And I feel i should really insist here. One of the best  albums ever.

 > "Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the
> propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved
> Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement
> through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On
> Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near
> Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork.

I have the Japanese 'mastersound' miniLP sleeve edition of that (fabulous!)
one, which is great.
What is the Eno album you are referring to like? (I'm also a serious Eno
fan...)

> If you don't have them, get them.

RIGHT NOW ;-] And don't forget the live albums, especially 'black beauty'
and 'dark magus', still avaialble in nice digipack reissues...

>(If you do, does anyone know how they
> compare to the previous domestic release of "On the Corner" and the
> existing import CDs of "Get Up With It"?)

The boxed set edition of 'big fun' tunes are wonderful, as well as the
mastersound versions of 'big fun' and 'get up'. The 'columbia masterpieces'
edition of 'On the corner' is good.

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Miles Reissues
Date: 07 Aug 2000 13:00:55 -0400

On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 07:40:50PM +0200, Marcin Gokieli wrote:

> Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Columbia/Sony/whatever
> > last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun"
> > (with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25
> > years later than they should have, "Get Up With It".
>
> Do you mean that there are extra tracks on 'on the corner'?! I think your
> 'extra tracks' refered to ' big fun', but still, one has to ask, you
> understand me... that question is really critical...

As I understand it,  "On the Corner" has no extra tracks.

>  I have the 'bitches brew' boxed set, and there are a few unreleased tunes
> coming from the sessions that 'big fun' is from. Are there any new tunes
> compared to the boxed set edition? I hope not...

Well, while the tracks on the "Big Fun" reissue are in the Bitches
Box, I'm told that the "Great Expectations" on it is several minutes
longer than the boxed edition.

>  > "Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the
> > propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved
> > Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement
> > through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On
> > Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near
> > Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork.
>
> I have the Japanese 'mastersound' miniLP sleeve edition of that (fabulous!)
> one, which is great.
> What is the Eno album you are referring to like? (I'm also a serious Eno
> fan...)

Eno mentions it in the liner notes to "On Land", which is what turned me
on to the album.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 14:28:28 -0500

Maurice Rickard wrote:

> What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for
> a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre.  Why
> I'm asking _here_ is that I'm assuming that many of us will share
> some of the same criteria of what constitutes "high points."

Any serious Armstrong collection (and arguably any serious jazz
collection) HAS to start with the early recordings of the Hot Fives and
Sevens from the 1920s.  These have been reissued a few times over the
years.  The Columbia Masterworks releases from the '80s, while the least
expensive option, are to be avoided wholeheartedly due to extreme abuse
of noise reduction technology - they sound flat and lifeless.  The best
transfers I've heard are those on the four volumes reissued by JSP, a
little British label.  The music on these discs leaps out of the
speakers in a way that bridges the years rather nicely.  I have not
heard the new comprehensive 4CD box set from Legacy, but am assured that
it is a great improvement on the earlier Columbias and possibly
comparable to the JSPs, and offers some previously unreleased material.

Perhaps you should just start with Volume One of the JSPs and then
decide how much further you want to go.  If you add Volume Two you'll
actually have most of the actual original Hot Fives and Sevens material,
and Volume Two also features a few cameos by the great blues guitarist
Lonnie Johnson.  Look to Armstrong's recordings with pianist Earl Hines
for a real meeting of equals.  Performances to look out for include
"West End Blues," "Weather Bird" and "Tight Like This," all three
included on Volume Three of the JSP series and probably on the new
Legacy box as well.  (The fourth JSP volume, for those who are curious,
collects lively ephemera and begins to point towards the big band years
to follow, but is least essential for the budget-minded.)

RCA Victor offers three different configurations of its Armstrong big
band material from the '30s - a four CD complete set, a single disc of
highlights from that set, and a new 2CD set issued for the centennial
(which in reality is a year away, as Armstrong was actually born on
August 1, 1901).  Purchase according to how much you want from this
reasonably important but definitely lesser period.  The complete box
also includes recordings with Jack Teagarden from Armstrong's return to
Victor in the late '40s.

Armstrong recorded for Verve and Decca during the next phase of his
career (late '30s-mid '40s, and late '40s-late '50s), and much of the
best of this can now be found on a new 3CD Verve anthology 'The Ultimate
Collection.'  You can begin there, and then follow up with the source
albums depending on how this sampling moves you.  This set also offers a
sampling of the music that Armstrong recorded in the '20s with Fletcher
Henderson, which is when he truly began to catch the ears of the jazz
world in New York.  It's a good one to have all around.

The peak of Armstrong's popularity came in the late '50s when Armstrong
was recording for Columbia (as well as Decca).  No one would claim that
any of this material is amongst the best of his career, but it does have
its charms.  Legacy has reissued three of the more popular records of
this period, all of which have their merits: 'Louis Armstrong Plays W.C.
Handy,' 'Satch Plays Fats,' and 'Ambassador Satch.'  But these are less
essential if you've got the Verve set above.

During the last decades of his life, Armstrong might be seen as coasting
on his not-inconsiderable laurels, making albums with other stars - of
these, the recordings with Ella Fitzgerald for Verve are rightfully
considered classics, and the recordings with Duke Ellington for Roulette
(newly reissued on Blue Note) are also worthwhile.

A bit long-winded, but I hope this is what you had in mind.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: satchmo
Date: 07 Aug 2000 11:52:42 -0700

Satchmo's Hot 5s and Hot 7s, from the 1920s, are widely acknowledged as
his most important and innovative work. Emotionally packed as well. All
that I've heard have been great, although I'm partial to his 1928
recordings with Earl Hines (and the Hots). Particular cuts to keep your
eye open for include Struttin With Some Barbeque and Weather Vane....
>From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Favorite Louis Armstrong?

>What with the centennial either upon us or coming up, I'm looking for
>a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:01:30 -0400

 I'm looking for
>a good collection of high points from Louis Armstrong's ouvre.

Admittedly biased position:

Go for the oldest stuff.  The work with King Oliver and Earl Hines from
24-32 or so is almost universally excellent.

West End Blues from 27 or 28 is widely regarded as one of the most
amazingly emotional jazz songs ever.  Period.  It's on columbia's
chronological series number 4.  Number 3 of the Hot Fives and Sevens is
also excellent and features amazing guitarist Lonnie Johnson.

Easiest way to get most (but not everything) of this:  Columbia's 4(?) cd
box Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

His collaboration with Jimmie Rodgers "Blue Yodel #9" is also a delight.

Matt
---
Matt Laferty
Department of English, General Literature, & Rhetoric
Binghamton University
PO Box 6000
Binghamton, NY 13902
607.777.2754
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gustafsson
Date: 07 Aug 2000 12:03:31 -0700 (PDT)

Hi,

I remember Mats Gustafsson and John Butcher being
mentioned a while ago here, and though I still don't
know anything about Butcher, I've learned a hell of a
lot more about Gustafsson by buying "Parrot Fish Eye"
which was great and then "Mouth Eating Trees and
Related Activities" which is phenomenal.

So the question is this:  What would you recommend for
similar free-improv from any of the "Mouth Eating
Trees.." personnel?  Also, am highly interested the
limited Gustafsson/Hamid Drake disc, "For Don Cherry",
but Okka is sold out.  Know where I can get it?

Thanks much.

---Ryan N.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:10:38 -0400

At 2:28 PM -0500 8/7/00, Steve Smith wrote:
<Much, much great advice snipped>
>
>A bit long-winded, but I hope this is what you had in mind.
>

Excellent!  This gives me a lot to go on.  I've actually been quite
taken with the Hot 5 and Hot 7 stuff I've heard, and I had just seen
that the Legacy box is about to drop.  I was leaning toward it, and
I'm probably going to take the plunge, as long as the Earl Hines
recordings are included.  My knowledge of the other periods is sadly
trivial, so your guide is a big help.  I can dip into those after
checking out the Hot 5 and 7 stuff.

The Legacy box does indeed seem to have some killer tracks, btw:
http://legacyrecordings.com/LouisArmstrong/newreleases.html#Box

Any comments on this lineup from the experts on the list?

And to address Matt's and Martin's points, having listened with
attention to "West End Blues" the other day is what has lit this fire
under me.  Beautiful.

Thanks to everyone who's responded,
Maurice
--
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Hip Hop Cobra
Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:47:44 EDT

I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up for a Cobra
piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra
Date: 07 Aug 2000 16:05:59 -0400

Hello OnionPalac,

Monday, August 07, 2000, you wrote to me:

Oac> I couldn't make it to Tonic on the night of this curious line up
Oac> for a Cobra piece. Anyone care to review? Thank you.

Well, I cannot write normal review because I know almost nothing about
Cibo Matto. But...

I was on the first set. It was extremely funny and fun to see all
these people on stage. The audience was a strange mix of normal Tonic
fans and young girls and boys who tried to dance.

The musicians I know were Arto Lindsay, Ben Perowski, Sean Lennon and
Sebastian Steinberg. Others were members of Cibo Matto and some guests
I never saw before.

Perowski played in his usual very straight manner, but this time it
was good and I liked it. Lindsay was not playing guitar but making
funny sounds only. It was really great. The weird thing was that
Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how
to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad
though because there were so many other musicians and sounds.

John Zorn was sitting at the table with all these signs and was
managing the whole performance. He looked very happy with this music.


I think I cannot add something else about it. Sorry.

--
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada influences
Date: 07 Aug 2000 20:05:07 -0000

Much has been said about the obvious template that Ornette
Coleman's groundbreaking quartet provides for the Masada
group, but lately I've been listening to Don Cherry's
'Complete Communion' date from 1965 on Blue Note (recently
reissued, great sound) and finding it to be the 'long
lost' Masada date! Check it out, with the fiery tenor
playing of Gato Barbieri (what happened to that guy?) and
Henry Grimes bass and Ed Blackwell drums. Another record
that I figure had a big influence on Zorn is the Charles
Earland soundtrack to 'The Dynamite Brothers' which found
the funky 'barbeque' organ playing of Earland moving 'out'
with the help from some of the Herbie Hancock 'Sextant'
crowd, like Eddie Henderson trumpet, Pat Gleeson
synthesisers, and Billy Hart drums. But especially
intriguing is the sax and flute playing of Dave Hubbard,
anyone know any other dates he's played on? Finally, the
best 'new' date I've discovered is from Michael Riessler,
a German clarinetist & composer, whose work encompasses
jazz, 'new music' & 'world' music, and who has worked with
Steve Reich, John Cage, Vinko Globokar, etc. His new CD,
entitled 'Orange' on the ACT Music label has him playing
in a very unique ensemble with Elise Caron vocals, Jean
Louis Matinier accordion, and Pierre Charial, who coaxes
the most amazing sounds out of a barrel organ. Riessler
has previously worked with Valentin Clastrier who plays
the hurdy-gurdy (Palude is the result of this other
brilliant collaboration), and one can only be astounded by
the electronic sounding timbres that these old instruments
are capable of producing. Well worth the effort tracking
down these albums..

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hip Hop Cobra
Date: 07 Aug 2000 16:50:42 -0400

Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon?  From what I have
seen he's not that great. I witnessed "Sean Lennon and Friends"
during the Circuit Foundation nights at Tonic.  It seemed more like
the Yuka Honda show with Yoko Ono's irrepressible orgasm sounds
throughout.  Yuka definitely ran the show and Sean seemed to be
looking to her (and perhaps others) for direction.  Even though he
wasn't in charge, he still didn't seem to be contributing much to the
music.  I though it was funny when, after direction from Yoko, he
said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my
moth--her mic on... at all times."

Dan Hewins

NP: Blue Man Group "Audio" (it was a gift from my mom...it's pretty
good though)


>The weird thing was that
>Lennon couldn't play bass at all. It seemed that he neither knew how
>to play nor understood the rules of Cobra. But it was not so bad
>though because there were so many other musicians and sounds.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gustafsson
Date: 07 Aug 2000 15:59:48 -0600



>"Mouth Eating Trees.." personnel?

i can't remember off hand the personnel here but I'll stick up for "You
forget to answer" with Barry guy and Raymond Strid.

Matt Wirzbicki

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "abulafia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Further into the SY issue.
Date: 07 Aug 2000 18:44:54 -0500

> "Arthur Gadney"
> 4. A THOUSAND LEAVES - This one came after the and the woodshedding of the
first few SYR EPs, and strikes me as
> both a return to form and a wistful, almost valedictory set from an edgy
> group finally easing into middle-aged maturity.  I enjoyed this one much
> more than I expected to.

    I must say I find this stament rather hard to understand in that many of
the tracks on "A Thousand Leaves" are clearly further developments on the
very arrangments on the first two SYR EP's.

& as for the "disappointing 'Washing Machine'", i find my self in roughfly
the same spot as Jon

" I think that Diamond Sea, the epic closer on Washing Machine, is easily
the best thing in their entire catalog."

More I would say it struck me as the best thing in there entire catolog the
first time i heard it.  since than I can't make up my mind between that,
"Hoarfrost", "SkipTracer", "Hits of Sunshine", "Freecity Rymes", or "NYC
Ghost's & Flowers".??!! (or many others on any given day really)  This makes
me think maybe the split that seems to come up between the SY camps, that is
the before-Diamond Sea camp(BDS) & the after-Diamond Sea camp(ADS?) [I make
the split at the song not the album because without the song the album would
not have been that diffrent from the usual rate of SY forwad progress, &
also I dont think that there output since then would look anything like it
dose now.] might tell us that SY is simply making albums of a diffrent sort
now.  In BDS era SY, I can not easaly name my favorite song on the album, i
can name the stronger ones.  the ones that work the best for me.  I think
that is because the songs of the BDS era were more of a singular nature
accros the album.  more variations on a theme.  Listen to the structure of
'Silver Rocket' & 'Teenage Riot', both on "Daydream Nation".  Pop riff,
suddon noise, slowly turned into riff, pop riff.  Great stuff, but that idea
is carried all through the album.  But now in ADS era there albums seem less
concerend with reworking the same ground, and more looking to try as many
different things as are apropreate.  Now this dose make missing the target
more likly, but with a band like SY, I think the hit's (in a strickly
Platonic since) are more than worth it.  It also makes for a more fragmented
sounding album, something the ADS album certainly are not.  I see this as
the cause for the increase in poor revues in the past 5 years, "wahing
machine" being in 95'.  So I think there albums as a whole piece were more,
quote, (make little international quote gesture here) "album like"  in the
BDS era, and therefor better albums (in the Beatel's since of the word), but
that as I started of saying my most common favorite SY
"recordings/singles/songs" are mostly form there ADS period.  So there you
are.


"The only thing we have to fear is,...    those freaks in the NRA"
JG
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Not Our] John The Generator
Date: 07 Aug 2000 20:45:50 -0700

Some of you might enjoy the 'John Cage Random Quote Generator' we just
activated on the pfMENTUM website:

http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Not Our] John The Generator
Date: 07 Aug 2000 20:48:11 -0700

PS

In case you haven't done the Generator thing, every time you go to that page
you get a different quote...or every time you 'refresh'.

http://www.pfmentum.com/cage.html



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Band of Joey Baron
Date: 08 Aug 2000 09:20:21 +0200

Hello,

sorry to raise this topic again, but I had quite some off list replies of
people concerning my question where the cd of Killer Joey (new band of joey
baron) could be obtained besides at his concerts.

Reads below and smile....

Stefan Verstraeten

-----Original Message-----

Hi Stefan,
Joey is supposed to drop me off copies this week.  Also a new cd
by Joey's band Down Home w/ Frisell, Arthur Blythe & Ron Carter will
also be here in the next week or two. Let us know which you want & we
will ship as soon as we get them.  Mailing address & credit card info
will also help speed up the process.  Take care,  Bruce from DMG

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Miles Reissues
Date: 08 Aug 2000 09:39:26 +0200


> As I understand it,  "On the Corner" has no extra tracks.

But there should be some extra material somewhere in the archieves.
Considering the way that music is edited, there should be plenty of that
stuff. I just can't wait for the complete '70s Miles Box. As those records
were hardly released in USA and Europe, there may be loads of tracks that
where unissued anywhere.
That brings another question...

> Well, while the tracks on the "Big Fun" reissue are in the Bitches
> Box, I'm told that the "Great Expectations" on it is several minutes
> longer than the boxed edition.

I HATE THE WAY THOSE GUYS ARE MAKING MONEY!!!
I spent a lot of money on the boxed set, and one of the reasons for it were
the 'Big fun' tunes. And now I don't have the most complete version... I
hope some of my friends will buy it  and i'll be able to cdr it.
My version lasts 13:45. Can you check out yours?
BTW the extra tunes from the BF sessions on the boxed set are incredible.
Soemthing really magical was happening (and those guys are publishing it
only now...)

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gustavo Broggi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Filmoworks II
Date: 05 Aug 2000 14:37:55 -0300

I┤ve bought filworks III a couple of weeks ago and it is amazing!!, great
cd, strongly recommended

Gustavo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Marcin Gokieli <[e-mail]>
Para: Zorn List <[e-mail]>
Fecha: Martes 1 de Agosto de 2000 20:58
Asunto: Filmoworks II


>Hi,
>    I listen recently to Filmowrks II intensively. An incredible album! My
>fave Zorn at the moment!
>Two questions:
>a) What was the film the music is suppposed to illustate like? The info on
>the disc are not very extensive.
>b) Some similiar JZ records? (maybe Elegy would be the closest i know)
>Be well,
>Marcin Gokieli
>[e-mail]
>Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
>are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
>
>
>-
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cynical Hysterie Hour
Date: 08 Aug 2000 08:25:08 EDT

Hi all,  i just listed my ORIGINAL copy of  Cynical Hysterie Hour on Ebay if
anyone is interested in this super-rare disc. <A
HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=404184962">eBay
item 404184962</A>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Rigg <[e-mail]>
Subject: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.
Date: 08 Aug 2000 15:08:56 +0100

Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with
in the late 70s/early 80s. They both appear to have been reissued on cd by
Moers Music, albeit at import price. I would very much appreciate any
background info., or simply a hearty recommendation would probably do it.
Cheers!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: bad mf, aka bad oedipus, aka Sean Lennon
Date: 08 Aug 2000 10:13:05 CDT

Hewins broke it down:
>Does anyone care to give any input on Sean Lennon?  From what I have
>seen he's not that great...I though it was funny when, after direction from
>Yoko, he
>said through the PA to the sound person, "Make sure to have my
>moth--her mic on... at all times."

If there are any among us with extensive knowledge of psychoanalysis, it
would be terrific to reconstruct Sean Lennon as Oedipal Warrior.  Struggling
to slay the father, yet the father is absent: the turn toward the mother is
made problematic....well, maybe not.  I found BEYOND THE SUN, or whatever
his debut was called, a little weak; watching him frolic with Yuka
(somewhere, I think it was EmptyV, er, MTV) was a little saccharine for my
tastes.  He is a child told several too many times that he is creative and
that people will care about his contributions.  Consequently, he took this
as a given.

----s

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Buying CDs (who it benefits)
Date: 08 Aug 2000 13:36:17 -0400

There has been a lot of discussion on this list regarding the
morality of copying CDs (and the whole Napster thing).  I know that,
through the sieve, people like Dave Douglas and Chris Speed, etc.,
and, I assume, to a larger extent, Zorn benefit from the purchase of
one of their CDs (or LPs).  Zorn benefiting more so because of his
ownership of the record label, Douglas and Speed, etc. benefiting
only through the terms of their contracts with the labels.

My question is who is benefiting from the sales of Charlie Parker
records and compilations?  Miles Davis reissue after reissue?  I know
the answer is "their estate" but somehow that's not good enough for
me.  I know that the record companies are making and remaking all of
these records and I'm sure they're getting a lot out of it.  And
"their estate" didn't make the music or record it or pay for the
recording, it's just related to all of that or left in a will, etc.
I realize that people can do what they like with their assets once
they pass... It's like passing on an investment.  Even though it
makes sense to me there is still that lingering feeling that tells me
that I shouldn't feel as bad about copying these older records of
passed musicians.  I don't do it (now) but I get that feeling.

Just some thoughts.

Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Miles Reissues
Date: 08 Aug 2000 11:16:43 -0700

>I don't think I've seen this here yet, but... Columbia/Sony/whatever
>last week released three Miles reissues, "On the Corner", "Big Fun"
>(with extra tracks), and, for the first time in the States, about 25
>years later than they should have, "Get Up With It".
>
>"On the Corner" is essential stuff, his clattering funk explosion.
>
>"Get Up With It", beside including the noise fest "Rated X" and the
>propulsive "Calypso Frelimo", has the ambient masterwork "He Loved
>Him Madly", which inspired and influenced the ambient movement
>through Robert Quine turning Eno onto it (and Eno thus creating "On
>Land", which features members of Material, which gets vaguely near
>Zorn-relevance :-] ). It may be Teo Macero's masterwork.

"He Loved Him Madly" is, I think, the culmination of Miles proto-ambient
works like In a Silent way, parts of Bitches Brew, Big Fun, etc. For me,
it's one of the very few pieces of music that absolutely step outside of
linear time, every time I listen to it, I'm amazed that 32 minutes have
passed.
>
>If you don't have them, get them. (If you do, does anyone know how they
>compare to the previous domestic release of "On the Corner" and the
>existing import CDs of "Get Up With It"?)
>
I have both the new reissue and import CD of "Get Up With It". When I'm
feeling particularly geeky, I'll compare the sound quality, but a cursory
listen makes me think the reissue sounds a lot better.

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: boy sean
Date: 08 Aug 2000 14:37:55 -0500


playing the role of arbiter of artist attacks, let me add what i think is
verying important to reading the youngest lennon's character.

i know kristopher is just playin, but still, i think it's to sean's huge credit
that he is actually not trying to slay, nor cash in on, his father. i thought
'into the sun' had a charm to it -- nice atmosphere, cute melodies, a love song
to his lover. really not so different from his pop's last (premortem) release.

more importantly, however, he has been content to find his way slow and quiet,
doing small gigs, playing instead of leading. i'm sure he could have had a
bigger contract than grand royale, major session players, world tour with julian
and ringo's son wearing clothes designed by paul's daughter even. followed by
his acting debut.

i think he's conscious of developing his own thing, and given time he probably
will. i'm not crazy about the music, but i respect his apparent efforts to keep
things in scope.

kg
np: spring heel jack - disappeared



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Moran <[e-mail]>
Subject: note on Armstrong recordings
Date: 08 Aug 2000 16:54:55 -0400 (EDT)

If you're in the NY-metro area, tune in to WKCR 89.9FM on Friday
afternoons for Phil Schaap's ongoing programs on Louis Armstrong.  Two
programs ago he advised listeners to tape his broadcast of his own
re-mastering of the Hot 5s and 7s; apparently he had done a cleanup job
which isn't scheduled for release.  In general, 'KCRs been doing a great
job of respecting Armstrong lately (including a solid week of his music).

-matt



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: note on Armstrong recordings
Date: 08 Aug 2000 17:04:25 -0400

>Two programs ago he advised listeners to tape his broadcast of his >own re-mastering of the Hot 5s and 7s; apparently he had done a >cleanup job which isn't scheduled for release.  In general,

Though with the radio compression the clean-up might not make much difference.

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: 70s Miles Wannabes In SF
Date: 08 Aug 2000 14:03:48 -0700

Yo Miles! will be at the Fillmore 9/1

Isham's Silent Way Project will be at Yoshi's 9/4


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: sonic youth ab infinitum
Date: 08 Aug 2000 21:48:03 -0500 (CDT)


my own personal favorites:

evol
sister
daydream nation
syr 1
syr 2
a thousand leaves

i have not heard any of the sy-proper discs between daydream and 1000
leaves.  i'm one of those people who grew up with sy and then wrote them
off after daydream.

i also wrote the cure off after head on the door,  metallica off after
master of puppets, and rem off after life's rich
pagent; the lesson being, 'writing off' is a risky business. anyway, then
i got into jazz and improv music, which led me to syr 3, which led to syr
1 & 2, which led to 1000 leaves.

despite my bias, i don't think one can  go wrong, if one wants to
experience what it was about sy that made them
what they are today in some of our minds, with evol, then sister, then
daydream nation.

after that, i don't know what to say, because everything after
that is biased by my previous exprience - but somehow, they managed to
reflect my own discoveries in music dispite my having written them off
(can't say that for the cure, metallica, or rem).

i must admit, though, having heard goo a number of times, it basically
makes me want to change the disc to daydream, evol, or sister, despite
enjoying some of the songs to some degree.  i've heard many positive
things about washing machine (not including those on this list), and also
relatively good things about the 'star trash whatever' disc (which i heard
once and thought sounded like earlier sonic youth).

evol just isn't then same on CD without the infinite skip at the
end of side two (or was it sister?).  i remember falling asleep to that lp
and waking up an hour or more later thinking, 'what the fuck is going
on? - wow - that's 'awesome' (as we used to say in those days).

(A BLURB ON SOLO SY PROJECT:)

finally, i'll put in a plug for the thurston moore, evan parker, walter
prati disc on materiali sonori, 'the promise'.  starts pretty much like
a disc with parker and prati, with prati's signiture electronic
manipulations of parker, but then branches out, including a spoken word
track and a track with nice distortion.  also, the disc has a really cool
program that allows the user to make improvised music by clicking on
different elements of graphic scenes - i think prati put it together.  a
nice expansion on the evan parker electroacoustic project sort of thing.

this was supposed to be a short message,
whit


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Spring Heel (was: boy sean)
Date: 09 Aug 2000 03:00:47 GMT




>From: [e-mail]
>
>np: spring heel jack - disappeared

How is this one Kurt?  For me, most of their work has been a mixed bag, but
I absolutely loved the piece they had on Macro Dub Infection.


BA

"...it is easy to find a type of machine to correspond to each society, not
because machines are determinant, but because they express social forms
capable of engendering and using them."--Gilles Deleuze
"It is part of the mechanism of domination to forbid recognition of the
suffering it produces, and there is
a straight line of development between the gospel of happiness and the
construction of camps of extermination so far off in Poland that each of our
own countrymen can convince himself that he cannot hear the screams of
pain."--Theodor Adorno


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: material
Date: 09 Aug 2000 00:11:41 -0400

Hi

I am packing to go on a trip and I was looking for discs to take
(priorities!) and remembered that I have two different versions of
Material's Seven Souls cd.  One's from 89 and one's from 97. I know damn
well that people on this list have these cds, and I haven't listened to
either in a while... comments on which folks like better and why?

Listening to both'll give me something to do on a long car ride.

Matt



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ken Vandermark
Date: 09 Aug 2000 06:32:38 +0200

Hi Philozorners,

I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is
one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have
"Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look
for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in
Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among
NY-listeners? Is he as un/known?

    __________________________________________________________________
    Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
    NP: Vandermark 5 "Simpatico"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Adorno (was Spring Heel)
Date: 09 Aug 2000 13:44:12 GMT




>From: "Caleb T. Deupree"
>
>Great Adorno quote, where's it from?
>


It comes from Minima Moralia, certainly his most accessible book and
strongly recommended.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: material
Date: 09 Aug 2000 14:39:41 GMT




>From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
>I am packing to go on a trip and I was looking for discs to take
>(priorities!) and remembered that I have two different versions of
>Material's Seven Souls cd.

Well Matt, I think they're pretty close, but the newer remix on Trilocka is
generally preferred by Material heads like myself because the sound is
richer and fresher and there's more dub in the remix.  There's also more
ambient texture.  It's also longer because three of the original tracks are
mixed twice on the new one, and these remixes are all interesting.  This CD
was remixed yet again by a bunch of DJ's but I haven't been able to get into
that one.  It's also on Trilocka.  As far as Material goes, were I banished
to an island with only four CDs from my collection, Hallucination Engine
would be one of them.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis summers <[e-mail]>
Subject: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.
Date: 09 Aug 2000 08:29:38 -0700

>Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with...

I bought them because I saw Zorn and other names I knew and loved, having
never heard of Moss. I have to tell you I became an instant convert and now
by anything Moss does. I think he's extraordinarily talented, creative and fun.

--ds
Dennis Summers
Quantum Dance Works
members.home.net/dennisqdw/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Yet another shameless gig announcement...
Date: 09 Aug 2000 08:29:06 -0700

Miko Biffle | Nathan Fuhr | COBRA!

Join Santa Cruz experimental musician Miko Biffle and Cabrillo Music =
Festival=20
conducting assistant Nathan Fuhr (Cobra Ensemble-Cincinatti) for their=20
performance of John Zorn's improvisational game piece COBRA. Including=20
members of Estradasphere and members of the CabFest orchestra; expect =
the=20
unexpected in this game of musical chance.=20

Monday, August 14th, 8:30 PM at the Art League Theater, 526 Broadway =
St.=20
Santa Cruz. California, US $5.00.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hatta <[e-mail]>
Subject: Game Piece Rules
Date: 08 Aug 2000 11:52:04 -0700

I just recently got the "new" Tzadik Pool disc, and I find it is very
interesting and entertaining.  Abstract, but in a way that is
engaging and listenable....I could see some improvisational rule sets
leading to noise, or becoming too sparse.  So I have become
interested in what the rule sets for the various Zorn Game pieces. I
searched the web and was not able to find them posted in their
entirety anywhere. Have they been posted on this list?   Due to the
unsearchability of the list archives I was unable to find them...if
anyone has them I would love a copy.

On Further Musical Game topics there is a group here in Seattle, The
'Strategic Improvisation Laboratory 2000' <http://www.sil2k.org> that
regularly performs game pieces, particularly Cobra.  You can download
a mp3 all Turntable Cobra that is pretty cool, but due to the nature
of turntablists more dense than I would think it would "normally" to
be.   They also perform game pieces invented by local musicians.  I
have never seen a 'SIL2k' Performance but they are having a 'Night of
Musical Games' in Seattle on August 26th for any Seattlites on the
list. More info at their website.

-Robert

-  -  -
"It may look as if I am searching for something;
but I am seeking nothing."
            - Pio Baroja




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: luc ferrari: versions of "presque..."
Date: 09 Aug 2000 16:48:19 CDT

About one year ago, there were recommendations for "Presque Rien" by Luc
Ferrari, the version on INA-GRM.  In the short discography at the end of a
Ferrari interview(www.mindspring.com/~youcango/paris/inter/ferrari.html),
there seems to be:

-an older LP version, PRESQUE RIEN (INA GRM 9104 FE, 1980; incl. "Presque
Rien N░2 - ainsi continue la nuit dans ma tΩte multiple" and "Promenade
Symphonique α travers un paysage musical"),

-a newer release, PRESQUE RIEN (MUSIDISC 245172; incl. "Music Promenade",
"Presque Rien N░1 - le lever du jour au bord de la mer",
"Presque Rien N░2 - ainsi continue la nuit dans ma tΩte multiple",
"Presque Rien avec filles")

-the release on Breuker's BVHaast label, ACOUSTIMATRIX (BVHaast, incl. among
other things, "Presque rien avec filles")


Qu'est-ce que la differance, dude?  And if it's the MUSIDISC compact
disc---I'm assuming it's a CD---where can one find MUSIDISC?  I'm having
trouble at my usual outlets (i.e. Other, DMG, Verge...)

Thanks, people!

-----s




________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: luc ferrari: versions of "presque..."
Date: 09 Aug 2000 19:00:35 EDT


In a message dated 8/9/00 5:49:08 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< -a newer release, PRESQUE RIEN (MUSIDISC 245172; incl. "Music Promenade",=
=20
"Presque Rien N=B01 - le lever du jour au bord de la mer",
"Presque Rien N=B02 - ainsi continue la nuit dans ma t=EAte multiple",
"Presque Rien avec filles") >>

this is the INA-GRM CD referred to, it also says "distribution Musidisc" on=20
it.

<<And if it's the MUSIDISC compact=20
disc---I'm assuming it's a CD---where can one find MUSIDISC?  I'm having=20
trouble at my usual outlets (i.e. Other, DMG, Verge...)>>

good luck, some of these INA-GRM discs seem to have become impossible to=20
find. I know a few people who have been searching for copies of Parmegiani's=
=20
De Natura Sonorum for a while who haven't been able to turn one up anywhere.

on a related note, Bjork evidently was browsing in Other Music the other day=
,=20
being helped by z-list alum Tom Pratt, and all she was looking for was=20
INA-GRM musique concrete. so maybe she'll get someone to rerelease all of=20
these...

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.
Date: 10 Aug 2000 13:34:27 +0200


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dennis summers <[e-mail]>
Aan: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Datum: woensdag 9 augustus 2000 17:30
Onderwerp: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.


>>Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved
with...
>
>I bought them because I saw Zorn and other names I knew and loved, having
>never heard of Moss. I have to tell you I became an instant convert and now
>by anything Moss does. I think he's extraordinarily talented, creative and
fun.
>
>--ds
>Dennis Summers
>Quantum Dance Works
>members.home.net/dennisqdw


I second this opinion

Jan Luyben


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Don't Blame Me
Date: 10 Aug 2000 09:10:34 -0700 (PDT)

Can someone give me a detailed description of this
album... Thanks in advance...

-Theo

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Edward Lutiy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Loos (Peter van Bergen) question (no Zorn content)
Date: 10 Aug 2000 22:52:25 +0400

    Good day!

    Sorry for no-Zorn-content message but I need your help very much.
In an ordering catalog I've found the following title:

Loos "Eindeloos" (New Road Music)

So the question is: is this record by the Peter van Bergen's band
Loos or not. If it is, what record am I to order first:
"Armstrong" (on Okkadisk) or "Eindeloos".

Also I would be happy to know any thoughts/opinions on these records.

    Thanks in advance

    Edward.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: david s ware quartet
Date: 10 Aug 2000 12:21:42 -0700 (PDT)

so it finally hit me, this disc I have been kicking
around for about 8months, "wisdom of uncertainty" is
blowing me away. Can anyone suggest some more
essential recording by this quartet?

please respond privately unless it seems appropriate
to the list.

a liner notes quote...
"Living as an artist, one of the main stumbling blocks
that we face is that people become frightened by the
instability of the artistic lifestyle, everything
isn't guaranteed. That instability is the key, though.
Through this openness, through this insecurity, great
wisdom can come. We need to put our faith in that uncertainty."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 16:39:56 CDT

I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums,
years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting
any of their records!  Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks
among the "numbered" albums.

Sorry for cross-postings.

---s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:22:35 EDT

In a message dated Thu, 10 Aug 2000  5:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]> writes:

<< I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums,
years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting
any of their records!  Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks
among the "numbered" albums.
>>

Being the Wyatt fan, I can heartily endorse 1, 2, & 3.  1 & 2 are currently available as a 2 on 1 CD...

Being the Holdsworth fan too, I must also suggest a copy of _Bundles_ be a part of your library.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: don't blame me, disappeared
Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:46:52 -0500


Theo requests that
>someone give ... a detailed description of [Don't Blame Me]

well, the word 'detailed' makes me nervous, but, ok. if you've looked at the
track list, you've no doubt noticed that it's a lot of old songs. it's a really
nice solo accoustic record, with his usual quirks in timing and playing. some of
the best playing captured on record. if you like his cubanos or bar khoba
playing, you'll probably like this, although it's not the same vibratofest.
maybe my fave of his. pisses me off, tho, that i saw a nice cardboard gatefold
sleeve after i already had the jewel box version.

bill then asked "How is this one Kurt?" with reference to "spring heel jack -
disappeared," to which i have no intelligent answer. not only do i not know
their other work, i really don't listen to enough d'n'b to say anything smart. i
like it, tho. some nice atmospherics along with the expected beats. the added
accoustic instrumentalists are, i'd think, what allow me to listen all the way
through.

np: eugene chadbourne: chad-born again (house of chadula cdr rerelease)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Outsider Music Mailing List
Date: 10 Aug 2000 18:53:46 -0400

http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Just starting so I hope any interested people will join.

Thanks, LT




Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm

"Where Do You Want to Go Today"
Somewhere you can never take me!



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 19:53:34 EDT

In a message dated 8/10/00 5:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums,
 years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting
 any of their records!  Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks
 among the "numbered" albums.

 >>

I'm quite familiar with the entire Soft Machine catalog, and while it isn't
one of the "numbered" recordings, the album Alive and Well Recorded In Paris
is absolutely essential for any 70's fusion fan.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 19:02:13 -0400

On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 07:53:34PM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:

> I'm quite familiar with the entire Soft Machine catalog, and while it isn't
> one of the "numbered" recordings, the album Alive and Well Recorded In Paris
> is absolutely essential for any 70's fusion fan.

I agree, it's my fave of theirs.

Long ago, I had a 4 (?) LP set of various oddities of theirs. What I
recall most fondly was a BBC recording of "The Moon in June".

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 20:32:54 EDT

In a message dated 8/10/00 7:57:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<
 Long ago, I had a 4 (?) LP set of various oddities of theirs. What I
 recall most fondly was a BBC recording of "The Moon in June".

  >>

<G> 3 LP box, with a great booklet, called Triple Echo, which as far as I
know was British only.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: don't blame me, disappeared
Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:53:01 +1000

> well, the word 'detailed' makes me nervous, but, ok. if you've looked at
the
> track list, you've no doubt noticed that it's a lot of old songs. it's a
really
> nice solo accoustic record, with his usual quirks in timing and playing.
some of
> the best playing captured on record. if you like his cubanos or bar khoba
> playing, you'll probably like this, although it's not the same
vibratofest.

Let me just add that it is very disjointed - while it is a solo record, Marc
doesn't go out of his way to do the typical 'jazz guitar' chords and melody
thing. By the way, he doesn't play an acoustic, does he? I think he's
playing a 335 or something like that. The mention of the Cuban project and
Bar Kokhba above may be a bit misleading, Don't Blame Me never really gets
that 'nice' (of course, I'm not saying that like it's a bad thing)...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bruno Bissonnette" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gustafsson/Drake
Date: 10 Aug 2000 21:37:22 EDT

A few digest ago someone posted that they'd like to get a hold of the now
out-of-print Okkadisk CD "For Don Cherry" duet by Gustafsson/Drake.  Well, I
have a copy (numbered #400 out of 600) that I might let go at the right
price, if anybody's still interested.

Bruno
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 21:42:00 EDT

In a message dated Thu, 10 Aug 2000  8:34:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:

<< In a message dated 8/10/00 7:57:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<
 Long ago, I had a 4 (?) LP set of various oddities of theirs. What I
 recall most fondly was a BBC recording of "The Moon in June".

  >>

<G> 3 LP box, with a great booklet, called Triple Echo, which as far as I
know was British only.
>>

Which also included both sides of those first two great Soft Machine singles, one of which was "Love Makes Sweet Music"- probably my favorite pop single of all time.  Why this has never seen a legit re-issue is beyond me.  A 30-second bit of it as introduced by John Peel appeared on a Gong compilation a while back (_History and Mystery_ is the title, I think...) , but nothing since then.  A real shame!!

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec\\\'s requested
Date: 11 Aug 2000 02:06:20 -0000

 "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>
><< I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the
Soft Machine albums, years ago; it knocked me out, and
when I came to, I didn't bother getting any of their
records! Recommendations, please, as to your favorite
picks among the "numbered" albums.

Soft Machine S/T (#1): Hendrix-influenced, full blown
psychedelic rock, whimsical Syd Barrett songs interpolated
with high energy organ-driven power trio pyrotechnics
(check out that solo on Lullaby Letter, best guitar solo
ever played on an organ!)
Soft Machine Volume 2: New, more competent bass player,
some horn charts, moving into jazzier terrain, great suite
on Side 2 (Esther's Nose Job)
Soft Machine Third: The expanded 'jazz' Machine with Elton
Dean sax and 2 other horn players, one 'song' per side,
this was definitely their peak moment, although Robert
Wyatt's wonderful whimsical singing is now restricted to
his own composition, Moon In June, which also features a
cool rock'n'roll minimalist ending.
Soft Machine Fourth: The last one with Wyatt, no singing
allowed now, we're serious musicians, and with his
departure goes some of the much needed levity. Still some
good moments here, the side 2 Hugh Hopper penned
'Virtually' is worthwhile.
Soft Machine Fifth: avoid! The drummer on side 1 is shite,
and although John Marshall rescues the proceedings on side
2, it still doesn't amount to much. They must have been in
a hurry to put this one out...
Soft Machine Six: The addition of Karl Jenkins
(ex-Nucleus) with the Babbington-Marshall rhythm section
seems to revitalise things somewhat, but they're still
trying to be a serious jazz band here, totally against the
spirit in which the group began. Definitely worth a
listen, but not their best work...
Soft Machine Seven: Last album with original organist Mike
Ratledge, a really good prog jazz-rock fusion album.
Still, it seems as though Jenkins ended up taking over
artistic control of the group, and turning it into
something completely different. They should have changed
the name after this! (P.S. Jenkins writes and plays sappy
new age music now, i.e. De Beers diamond commercials and
Adimeus) Yes, the Holdsworth band definitely had its
moments, but it is certainly not stuff I can listen to
now. The earlier albums definitely stand the test of time!
I bought Vol. 2 in '69 and ended up buying all the other
albums pretty much as they came out...There are some good
live recordings with the 69-72 bands, notably 'Live At the
Paradiso'. So after 30 odd years I can still enjoy Vol. 1
& 2 (great to have on 1 CD!), Thirds, Fourth, plus don't
forget Robert Wyatt's solo work, Rock Bottom, End Of An
Ear, Shleep

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec\\\'s requested
Date: 10 Aug 2000 20:18:08 -0700

Soft Machine Third: The expanded 'jazz' Machine with Elton
Dean sax and 2 other horn players, one 'song' per side,
this was definitely their peak moment, .....
_______________________________________________

This is true. If you only get one, get Third.

Seven is the second one you must have.

Then if you want more, most of the live recordings released over the last
several years are gloriously delightful.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Luc Ferrari
Date: 11 Aug 2000 00:09:42 EDT

hey,

um. i have the musicdisc version of Presque Rien, I couldn't actually find it
at OtherMusic, I had to go to Kim's Video. The "versions" of the piece are
really very different, though not unrelated. and to find any of them on CD
would be worth purchasing. The Musicdisc version also has Music Promenade (i
believe that's the title, and it's on that Ohm 3-cd set) which is a very nice
cut-up piece of concrete, that is nowhere near as smooth and subtle as
Presque Rien.
His distribution is awful. I really don't think it's fair that it's so hard
to find his music and Parmegiani's. Even Schaffer and Henri's works are
particularly hard to afford and find in non new-york record stores, being
that most of them are released on French Labels. Ferrari has a release on
Blue Chopsticks that I found to be interesting, but not as particularly
moving as his other work, yet it's easier to find. His Tzadik cd is worth
checking out, there is a cd of piano works that are very impressive, called
Piano Piano, and my second favorite (to Presque Rien) is Danses Organiques,
it's absolutely amazing and unique. A cinema for the ear as it says on the
cover..I don't really know how to describe this one at all, repetition,
concrete sound, voices, and many of Luc's well-known themes come into play in
it, in the liner notes there is a comment about Luc being considered an
"erotic" composer, and the reply being he is a pornographic composer, pretty
much sums it up.

p.s.
tell bjork to email me.

from,
matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Moss - Full House & Dense Band.
Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:49:00 +0200

Some of the Dense Band recordings are recorded for Intakt, a very
small swizz label.

PEACE

 Tim                            mailto:[e-mail]


Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 4:08:56 PM, you wrote:

Stephen> Just a quick note regarding the David Moss recordings Zorn was involved with
Stephen> in the late 70s/early 80s. They both appear to have been reissued on cd by
Stephen> Moers Music, albeit at import price. I would very much appreciate any
Stephen> background info., or simply a hearty recommendation would probably do it.
Stephen> Cheers!

Stephen> -



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark
Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:43:59 +0200

I am a Vandermark fan since i heard him last summer in Saalfelden.
A few months ago I heard him with the DKV trio, a group featuring
Vandermark, Kent Kessler and Hamir Drake. They were one of the
greatest ensembles I ever heard.


PEACE

 Tim                            mailto:[e-mail]




Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 6:32:38 AM, you wrote:

Artur> Hi Philozorners,

Artur> I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is
Artur> one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have
Artur> "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look
Artur> for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in
Artur> Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among
Artur> NY-listeners? Is he as un/known?

Artur>     __________________________________________________________________
Artur>     Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
Artur>     NP: Vandermark 5 "Simpatico"


Artur> -



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada live in sevilla 2000 (tzadik)
Date: 11 Aug 2000 09:55:17 +0200

hi boys and girls.

i finally received my copy of "live in sevilla" two days ago.

i'm also one of those guys/girls who has all the masada releases. a bit
sad, isn't it...? well, not really...

is this really the best masada cd ever? i don't know if i'm capable of
making such a judgement.

but what i do know is the following: it definitely is a great cd! at
least amongst the best masada releases. every player is in excellent
shape, the soloing is fantastic, and there's a certain magic happening.
i particularly like jz's playing on this one.

patRice

np: masada, live in sevilla 2000



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: masada live in sevilla 2000 (tzadik)
Date: 11 Aug 2000 18:51:48 +1000

> but what i do know is the following: it definitely is a great cd! at
> least amongst the best masada releases. every player is in excellent
> shape, the soloing is fantastic, and there's a certain magic happening.
> i particularly like jz's playing on this one.

yes certainly, however i was a bit disappointed by the promised seven-minute
baron solo. i had to listen through the whole cd a few times before i
realised where it was. unfortunately that track, apart from being mostly
dedicated to drums, is also the only track which has a really obvious
mistake (zorn's calling of the second part of the 'head'). baron's playing
is great, but that bit throws it off slightly... oh, and also, he only
really solos for 5 and a bit minutes of the track, not 7 : )


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: thehodgsons <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark
Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:03:15 -0400

Artur,

I agree DKV Trio is the shit.  I have the Live & Wels and DKV with Joe Morris.  Both are excellent.  I just ordered the other available discs from
forced Exposure along with Peter Brotzmann's Die Like A Dog Quartet.  Anyone have any comments on that one.

Dwayne

PS- Artur, did you get anything in the mail from me yet?  Get back to me at my other address.



Tim Blechmann wrote:
>
> I am a Vandermark fan since i heard him last summer in Saalfelden.
> A few months ago I heard him with the DKV trio, a group featuring
> Vandermark, Kent Kessler and Hamir Drake. They were one of the
> greatest ensembles I ever heard.
>
> PEACE
>
>  Tim                            mailto:[e-mail]
>
> Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 6:32:38 AM, you wrote:
>
> Artur> Hi Philozorners,
>
> Artur> I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is
> Artur> one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have
> Artur> "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look
> Artur> for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in
> Artur> Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among
> Artur> NY-listeners? Is he as un/known?
>
> Artur>     __________________________________________________________________
> Artur>     Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
> Artur>     NP: Vandermark 5 "Simpatico"
>
> Artur> -
>
> -

--
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark
Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:39:18 EDT

Check out Vandermark's latest- Spaceways Incorporated: Thirteen Cosmic
Standards By Sun Ra & Funkadelic (Alavistic).  This is a killer trio with
Vandermark, Nate McBride and Hamid Drake.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Graves <[e-mail]>
Subject: Osaka, anyone?
Date: 11 Aug 2000 09:19:05 -0400 (EDT)

This is a long shot, but I was wondering if any of y'all were familiar
with the Osaka/Kansai area music scene in Japan, and knew of any
particularly good places for noise/experimental/ improv live music or any
good record stores dealing in the same genres.  I'll be
in that area this fall, and I know there is a really hopping music scene
there, what with Boredoms, Eye, Otomo, and others based there. I just need
to find it... My only luck so far has been hearing about a club called
"The Bear" co-managed/owned by Yamamotor. Any and all information
appreciated. Thanks,

Jamie









-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bob Kowalski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: tortoise
Date: 11 Aug 2000 09:52:39 -0400

I've been thouroughly enjoying 4 Tortoise discs: TNT, Millions Living Will =
Never Die,  Untitled and the Remix one and have couple of ?s  for the =
zornsters...  Is there another full length that is now out of print (saw =
it listed in an 1999 Thrill Jockey catalog but not on their web site.)  =
Also, whats up with those two Japanese imports (seem to be Untitled & =
Millions Living.. discs repackaged) that go for between $25 -$30 at shops? =
 Are they double CDs, contain extra tracks, just inflated import prices?

Two more ?s (feeling needy today) on related side projects:=20

I'm currently looking for the Pullman CD, which I think is a side project =
by Tortoise & friends?  Any feedback good/bad?

Any thoughts out there on the soundtrack that Tortoise members participated=
 in?  Damned if I can remember film's name, although Sea & Cake members =
are also on it?  Vocals at all? =20

A related recommendation / shout out to the side project Brokeback, which =
is too cool.  Lo-fi ambient Tortoise if ya can dig, with some help from =
StereoLab buddies!

Thats it for today's queries - happy listening=20

Bob


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joslyn Layne" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Vandermark & Die Like a Dog
Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:12:26 -0400

i second the recommendation of DKV's, live in Wels & Chicago. it really
captures how great they are- very fiery, all-inclusive performances. i also
really enjoy their album with Fred Anderson, also on Okkadisk. for whatever
reason, i don't get into many of the Vandermark 5 albums, and i haven't
heard much off of the newest one to know yet. but i can heartily recommend
the following things-vandermark: anything by the DKV Trio, Simpatico, Steam
[atavistic], Design in Time [delmark], and any of the AALY releases [Mats
Gustafsson's trio + Vandermark].  being a fan of both Sun Ra and Funkadelic,
what i've heard off of the Spaceways Inc. sounds great, there is also a new
Ayler tribute or Ayler-based project on Knitting Factory called Witches &
Devils.  in all, Vandermark's been busy, i'd say.
can't wait to see Vandermark 5 and DKV Trio on the same bill here in
Michigan at Edgefest in October.

as for Die Like a Dog, i have listened to them all and, if i had to pick, my
favorites are the first two FMP releases, Die Like a Dog and Little Birds
Have Fast Hearts, No.1. Saw the group (with trumpeter Roy Campbell instead
of Toshinori Kondo since c.'98-- wonder why) earlier this year and can only
say that Hamid Drake and William Parker never cease to amaze and the two
together in a group is indescribably astounding.

i'll stop before the hyperbole starts to really gush forth,
but DKV and Die Like a Dog are among my favorite working groups,
so i couldn't help but sing a little bit of praise!


    joslyn



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark
Date: 11 Aug 2000 07:23:34 -0700

Don't miss the Ken Vandermark Five's TARGET OR FLAG (Atavistic ALP106CD).

Stellar.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn's blowing
Date: 11 Aug 2000 07:36:37 -0700 (PDT)

I have noticed that zorn has been playing a lot better
the past three or four times I have seen him live. The
recent reports from sevilla masada is that his playing
is top notch. I wonder what he has cooking up that he
is getting back into such good shape with his playing?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's blowing
Date: 11 Aug 2000 08:10:32 -0700

jason tors wrote:

I wonder what he has cooking up that he

> is getting back into such good shape with his playing?
>

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, then you're thinking "Classic
Guide to Strategy, Vols. 3-5." It would be nice, wouldn't it, but
perhaps best not to hold one's breath.

William Crump


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Vandermark & Die Like a Dog
Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:26:05 CDT

<chiming>

I'll have to third, or fourth----forth!----Joslyn's and others'
recommendations of at least some of Vandermark's projects.  Seeing DKV live
with Fred Anderson (who is super, super fine---as dignified, humorous, and
generous with his spiderweb solos as you could ever desire...the comparisons
with Ornette aren't unwarranted, though I've felt that the similarity is
more in the spirit and humor that comes from the juxtaposition of "cells",
repetition, etc., almost the same effect as sampling and cuts in hip-hop
[basing this on my own rather sub-literate familiarity with hip-hop, but I
think of Terminator X, ELP or whoever does DJ work with COmpany Flow,
Premier, etc etc] but without the radical abruptness of John Zorn's or
[speaking of germinating cells] Tim Berne's playing) at the (Re)Soundings
Festival in Atlanta a couple years ago was a tremendous experience, with
Vandermark memorably creating the better part of a searingly energetic solo
out of a single altissimo shriek.  The DKV live double album is much more
interesting---IMHO---than either BARAKA (studio, Okkadisk) or the limited
edition LIVE album, which are the only two others I've heard.  Hamid Drake,
for me, _had_ to be experienced live, had to be seen to be believed; I
suspect the same is true of people like Paul Lovens.  I'll send another post
about percussionists, though.  Now to...

Peter Brotzmann, Fred Hopkins, and Hamid played a long improvisation which
was just _searing_.  The groove absolutely gripped them all at times, and
Brotzmann veritably _danced_ in place while blowing possessed Texas (by way
of Bavaria?) blues.  The bombs Drake would drop under Brotz's playing were
so perfect, so _logical_ in retrospect, that more than a few times the
entire section of the audience I was in almost rose to their feet: arms
fluttered high like pidgeons---we shouted at them, we were helpless.  It was
an evening of maximum R&B with so much more than blowing at stake, just
undiluted love for the music.  Which I suppose belated brings me to my
point: the same chemistry applies to the Die Like a Dog Quartet, one of my
favorites among jazz's working groups.  I agree with Joslyn about the DIE
LIKE A DOG and LITTLE BIRDS HAVE FAST HEARTS (vol. 1) being my favorites; I
think Kondo's live electronics were my first taste of the possibilities of
electronics in an improvised setting, outside the confines of a studio.  At
any rate, those two records are terrific and are quite a bit more varied and
interesting to me than anything else I've heard from Brotz (with possible
exceptions of the Chicago Octet/Tentet and the unbelievable LIVE IN BERLIN
1971).  Essential starting music for "energy" free-jazz, and a great way out
from punk (I'm guilty of a little evangelism, though now I'm hooked on punk
stuff, so I suppose it's more like Catholicism...)

Geez, I suppose I should journal or somthing.  Sorry for the long message!

</chiming><lurk>

P.S.  It's been a little while since the Ken Vandermark/Paul Lytton double
album ENGLISH SUITES came out.  Are there any more opinions about it?

Cheers: avanti!

-----s

NP: Jim O'Rourke, EUREKA (I can see how he would be pissed at smug "indie
kids"---as he calls them---thinking all he was up to was kitsch; there is
clearly so much more happening on this record.  Which is gorgeous, BTW.)
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: tortoise
Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:40:36 -0600

>I've been thouroughly enjoying 4 Tortoise discs: TNT, Millions Living Will
>Never Die,  Untitled and the Remix one and have couple of ?s  for the
>zornsters...
>

Is there another full length that is now out of print (saw it listed in an
1999 Thrill Jockey catalog but not on their web site.)

Yep, the first remix album, _Rhythms, Resolutions and Clusters_ -
reworkings of tracks from the first (self-titled) album.

Also, whats up with those two Japanese imports (seem to be Untitled &
Millions Living.. discs repackaged) that go for between $25 -$30 at shops?
Are they double CDs, contain extra tracks, just inflated import prices?

Sort of a common deal for Japanese pressings of contempo stuff: since
imports can actually be cheaper than the domestic releases there, the
Japanese versions are often augmented with bonus tracks to make them more
enticing to the consumer.
I don't know about the first album, but _Millions now Living..._ has three
bonus tracks, two of which comprised their out-of-print Duophonic 12" -
some of their best work, IMHFO. The Japanese _TNT_ features a Nobukazu
Takemura remix of the title track (haven't heard it).

>Any thoughts out there on the soundtrack that Tortoise members
>participated in?  Damned if I can remember film's name, although Sea &
>Cake members are also on it?  Vocals at all?

_Reach the Rock_ - very Tortoise-y, as John McEntire did most of the
soundtrack. With cuts by Tortoise, Polvo, The Sea and Cake, and Dianogah -
the Sea and Track track has some pretty inobtrusive vocals; otherwise it's
all instrumental.

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tortoise
Date: 11 Aug 2000 11:56:22 -0400

>Is there another full length that is now out of print (saw it listed
>in an 1999 Thrill Jockey catalog but not on their web site.)  Also,
>whats up with those two Japanese imports (seem to be Untitled &
>Millions Living.. discs repackaged) that go for between $25 -$30 at
>shops?  Are they double CDs, contain extra tracks, just inflated
>import prices?

These indie bands always have so many releases it's hard to keep
track of.  Luckily for you I keep track of Tortoise's.  The only full
lengths that I consider their "albums" are "Millions...", "TNT", and
the eponymous one.  The remix one is full length but it actually a
compilation of a bunch of 12" remix vinyls.  The Japanese imports
have extra tracks and remixes on them, not to be found elsewhere.
There is "The Digest Compendium of the Tortoise World"  which is
somewhat of a compilation disc for Japanese release that contains
some of their early 7" material (Mosquito, Gooseneck, etc.), some
released material form the s/t record, as well as some otherwise
unreleased (to my knowledge) remixes (one by Steve Albini).  The
"Millions...", and "TNT" Japanese releases also contain extra tracks
but I don't know what they are.  They are not double CDs.  Your best
bet on these is eBay or Gemm.com.  Oh yeah, there is also something
called "Rhythms, Resolutions & Clusters" which apparently was
released in the US but is OOP now as far as I can tell.  Check this
page for good, useful info:
http://brainwashed.com/tortoise/discog.html.

>I'm currently looking for the Pullman CD, which I think is a side
>project by Tortoise & friends?  Any feedback good/bad?

I got this and I'm not to excited about it.  It's acoustic music and
I think it's just OK.  You don't need to go out of your way to hear
it.

>Any thoughts out there on the soundtrack that Tortoise members
>participated in?  Damned if I can remember film's name, although Sea
>& Cake members are also on it?  Vocals at all?

"Reach the Rock".  Great soundtrack record, one of my favorites.
It's mostly a John McEntire record.  He scored, performed, and
recorded most of the material on the record.  Really, really good
stuff.  Pretty mellow.  There is one track each by Tortoise, The Sea
and Cake, Dianogah, Bundy K. Brown, and Polvo.  Highly recommended
though I heard the film is no good.

Damn.  Get indie on us and I miss all this work that I should be doing.

Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: knit fac west
Date: 11 Aug 2000 12:13:30 -0500 (CDT)


well, the LA times reported yesterday that the knitting factory west
opened that day (august 10th), but they did not indicate who was playing.
furthremore, i can't find any indication anywhere in the LA times of who
might be playing there - the knitting factory isn't even listed in the
jazz section (or the pop section or...) of the LA times' 'calandar'
section.  so...anyone have any idea what's going on at the knitting
factory west?  whoever was supposed to do advertising for them really
screwed up - or maybe they're hoping people will just show up because it's
the oh-so-legendary-given-reports-from-musicians-that-have-played-ther
*knitting factory*? (cf., john lurie's letter to the LA times, posted here
a while back).

in LA and wondering if there might actually be music worth going to see
for a change,
whit

William W. Schonbein
Philosophy-Neuroscience-Psychology Program
Department of Philosophy
Washington University
St. Louis, MO, USA 63130-4899

http://artsci.wustl.edu/~wwschonb/
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Hywel Davies <[e-mail]>
Subject: cora
Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:19:58 -0700 (PDT)

anyone any details of the forthcoming tom cora cd on
Knitting factory?
also, opinions of the new Joey Baron cd and Ellery
Eskelin's "ramifications" would be welcome...thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brotzmann
Date: 11 Aug 2000 17:20:59 -0000

 < Peter Brotzmann's Die Like A Dog Quartet.  Anyone have
any comments on that one.

One of the best groups I've ever experienced! Up there
with Ornette & Prime Time, Sun Ra, and of course, Masada.
The new edition with Roy Campbell on trumpet is an
amazingly solid, focused, out on the edge, hard blowin'
post-apocalyptic quartet...and Hamid Drake swings like no
one else, that cat is amazing! Everyone came away from
their recent gig at the Vancouver Jazz Fest realising
they'd just witnessed something unique. Check 'em out at
any cost!

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Baron, Eskelin (was Re: cora)
Date: 11 Aug 2000 13:30:35 -0400

>also, opinions of the new Joey Baron cd and Ellery
>Eskelin's "ramifications" would be welcome...thanks.

What Joey Baron CD?

If ramifications is the 5tet (Black/Parkins trio + 2) then I'll say
simply that it's good.  If you like the trio's records, then you'll
like this one.

Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cora
Date: 11 Aug 2000 10:39:36 -0700


On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:19:58 -0700 (PDT)  Hywel Davies wrote:
>
> anyone any details of the forthcoming tom cora cd on
> Knitting factory?

You mean that there is another one (besides the recently released IT'S A BRAND
NEW DAY - LIVE AT THE KNITTING FACTORY)?

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: knit fac west
Date: 11 Aug 2000 13:41:30 -0500

Whit Schonbein wrote:

> well, the LA times reported yesterday that the knitting factory west
> opened that day (august 10th), but they did not indicate who was playing.
> furthremore, i can't find any indication anywhere in the LA times of who
> might be playing there - the knitting factory isn't even listed in the
> jazz section (or the pop section or...) of the LA times' 'calandar'

When I phoned him with similar questions about a week ago, Dorf told me that
the club would be operating as of now, but doesn't really formally open to
the public until September 16 or thereabouts.  Before that, it's supposedly
just a series of private parties, industry functions and the like.  When they
actually do open, there will definitely be a big media splash.  Right
now I
think they're just quietly "playing the club in" after all the delays.
Supposedly such acts as Dave Douglas, Sonic Youth and even Ornette are booked
for dates coming soon.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Scott Colley, "Metropolis," 'The Magic Line' (Arabesque) - nice trio
with Chris Potter and Bill Stewart

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Non-Zorn: Gelb-Bickley-Zitt at DMG Sunday
Date: 11 Aug 2000 14:36:54 -0400

Just a moment to toot my own horn: This Sunday at 7 PM, Tom Bickley
and I (of the ensembles Comma and Gray Code) will be performing with
shakuhachi player Phil Gelb at Downtown Music Gallery in NYC. Expect
unexpected combinations of winds and voices.

I look forward to the possibility of meeting some of the NYC
contingent there.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Aug 2000 17:17:54 -0400

For those in New England; Masada will be playing the Newport Fest(in
Newport, of all places) this sunday.

further info at

http://festivalproductions.net/jvc/newport/schedule.shtml

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 11 Aug 2000 16:36:48 +0200

I liked several of them. 3 is legendary, but perasonally i liked the 4
(especially) and 5 better. The albums without Wyatt were generally worse,
had
less personality. The 6 is  not a bad album, but I don't listen to it . I
had an album called 'Softs', wihich is quite worthless IMHO: a kind of early
mahavishnu rip-off. Seriously boring.
There were also great live albums. I had borrowed a 'live at the BBC'
from the times of 3, and it was GREAT!
Worth recommendation is also Wyatt's Matching Mole (that pronounces in a way
that makes similiar to french 'machine molle' - ie soft machine). I 've
heard an album them once, and it was really worth attention.
There's also an album by Carla Bley, European Tour 1977, that features some
ex-SM memebers (Hopper, Dean). It's really a great album, I recommend it
very seriously.
Marcin Gokieli



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark
Date: 11 Aug 2000 18:02:57 -0500 (CDT)


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, artur-via-zorn-list-wrote:

> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:32:38 +0200
> From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Ken Vandermark
>
> I don't remember if Ken Vandermark was discussed here, but since he is
> one of my recent discoveries, I'd like to read some opinions. I have
> "Simpatico" and "Design in Time", both excellent records. What to look
> for next? What about his live performances? I know he plays a lot in
> Chicago, where he created a scene around him - is he popular among
> NY-listeners? Is he as un/known?

he unexpectedly received a MacArthur 'genius' grant of us$256,500
recently, so sombody was aware of him...

in my experience, live V5 shows can be impressive.  there are a couple
"official bootlegs" floating around, recorded live at the empty bottle in
chicago and somehow 'let free' by the band, but hte real fun is seeing
them. if you don't have the brotzmann tentet/octet discs on okka disc,
then that's a good place to hear more vandermark (and the rest of the 5).

finally, just today i stumbled on a (new?) V5 disc called "burn the
incline".  It's on Atavistic, and i can't find a copyright notice anywhere
on either the packaging or the discs themselves.  the disc came with a
"limited edition" disc of the V5 playing vandermark's arrangements of
'classic' free jazz tunes by the likes of ornette coleman, anthony
braxton, sun ra, eric dolphy, cecil taylor...first impression: sounds good
to me...

whit
np: V5 - bonus live 'free jazz covers' disc in 'burn the incline' by the
V5....



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brotzmann/Die Like a Dog
Date: 11 Aug 2000 19:28:25 EDT

I will add the second volume of Little Birds to essential Brotzmann/Die Like
a Dog.  The second volume contains material from the same two performances
represented on Volume 1.  The first DLAD with a nod to it's namesake Mr.
Ayler, is not to be missed.   An extension of this group is Brotzmann's
Tentet.  The second manifestation of his tentet involves the core of
Vandermark's Chicago mates:  Kent Kessler, Fred Londberg-Holm, Jeb Bishop,
Mars Williams, and Michael Zerang.  Kondo has also joined in on occassion,
as has the fifth DLAD Roy Campbell.  The three CD Tentet on OKKA is
essential, and though Brotzmann is the "leader" it is a group effort in all
ways.  Composing credits are given all around, and though it is Brotzmann
style high-energy stuff, he certainly does not dominate.  Less essential is
the new one titled Stone, recorded at Victoriaville but much less
adventurous than the 3 CD set.  Another recording similar in style is Marz
Combo featuring twin guitars of Caspar B and Nicky Skopelitis as well as
Kondo, Parker, Anton Feir and Paul Rutherford.  Also on FMP.

Alan Kayser
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Vandermark
Date: 11 Aug 2000 19:40:08 -0400

been lurking on this discussion; wanted to see what people had
in mind for vandermark recommendations.

you MUST check out the NRG Ensemble 'This Is My House.'  ken
vandermark is a guaranteed good listen, pretty much, but this
particular recording is stellar.  esp. in light of what he has
done since, i have to say nothing comes close.  very powerful
and energetic stuff.  the NRG Ensemble comes from an original
group led by hal russell, but has made some very fine music
since.  the one to check out is 'This Is My House.'  genre-
bending, thermonuclear intensity.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Odp: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 11 Aug 2000 21:19:26 EDT

In a message dated Fri, 11 Aug 2000  6:42:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]> writes:

<< I had an album called 'Softs', wihich is quite worthless IMHO: a kind of early mahavishnu rip-off. Seriously boring.
 >>

I have a soft (oops...) spot for _Softs_, as it was a favorite of a long-departed friend of mine.  Jon Ethridge makes his debut as a SM'er here, fresh off the heels of a stint in Darryl Way's Wolf.  It's a most unique album in the SM catalogue, ranging in style from jazz/metal fusion to almost Berlin school-styled electronics.  Not exactly one for the SM neophyte, admittedly, but one I enjoy on occasion.  We miss you Tony...:-(

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: vent fact west
Date: 11 Aug 2000 18:46:12 -0700

In LA and wondering if there might actually be music worth going to see
for a change,
whit
_____________________

We're having fun just up the coast in Ventura:

Another great concert bargain from the folks at pfMENTUM:

Saturday, August 12, 8 PM, $5

Art City II, 31 Peking Street, Ventura, California
For Directions: http://www.mapblast.com/

Jeff and Steuart
Jeff Kaiser, trumpet and electronics
Steuart Liebig, bass and electronics

AND

The Billy Mintz Quartet
Billy Mintz: drums
Jeff D'Angelo: bass
Rob Lockhart: tenor saxophone
Clay Jenkins: trumpet

NOTE: This concert is inside (physically anyway) BUT there are no chairs.
Please bring blankets, pillows, lawnchairs, et cetera to sit on.

For more info: http://www.pfmentum.com
While there, be sure to look at our other upcoming events.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ljova" <[e-mail]>
Subject: God Speed
Date: 11 Aug 2000 22:51:23 -0400

Anyone catch the "God Speed You Black Emperor" shows at the Knit today &
yesterday?
(I couldn't.)

Thanks,

Ljova

--------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
[e-mail]
http://mp3.com/Ljova/

"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
        -Miles Davis


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Victor Debattista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 12 Aug 2000 14:57:46 +0200 (MET DST)

I've not seen mention yet of the excellent live "Noisette", on Cuneiform records.  This
one is from 1970, and is from the band before 3 with plenty of reworked material from 1
& 2.  Wyatt was still in the band at that stage, although, as in 3, the vocals do not
feature very much.  This one is very much worth hearing.

Cheers

Victor

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Soft Machine rec\\\'s requested
Date: 12 Aug 2000 14:37:18 -0000

>I have a soft (oops...) spot for _Softs_, as it was a
favorite of a long-departed friend of mine.  Jon Ethridge
makes his debut as a SM'er here, fresh off the heels of a
stint in Darryl Way's Wolf.  It's a most unique album in
the SM catalogue, ranging in style from jazz/metal fusion
to almost Berlin school-styled electronics.  Not exactly
one for the SM neophyte...

Just to clarify, for anyone wanting to delve into the Soft
Machine oeuvre, after Soft Machine Seven, there were no
longer any original members of the band left! The founding
members were Daevid Allen (on to Gong), Mike Ratledge
(sadly M.I.A.), Robert Wyatt (as mentioned, Matching Mole,
and great solo albums), Kevin Ayers (interesting early
solo efforts). Hugh Hopper came in to replace Ayers on
Volume 2 (check out Hoppertunity Box). So regardless of
how one feels about the post Seven Soft Machine albums
(Softs, Live In Paris, Land of Cockayne, Bundles), these
are not really S.M. albums! They should have changed the
name, in fact at that stage the group had more in common
with (Ian Carr's) Nucleus, i.e. Karl Jenkins & John
Marshall. Certainly by that point, the original spirit of
the group (which many feel was embodied by Wyatt) had
disappeared..

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "himry.suzuki" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:Osaka,anyone?
Date: 13 Aug 2000 08:19:02 +0900

I live in Nara Pref. near Osaka.
I recommend Live Hause Big Apple in Kobe.  Homepage is
http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/i/big-apple/.
To our regret this page is written in Japanese.

There is Tower Records at Shinsaibasi in Osaka.
Noise/experimental/improvisation  cd is sold at the 4th floor.

M. Suzuki



> This is a long shot, but I was wondering if any of y'all were familiar
> with the Osaka/Kansai area music scene in Japan, and knew of any
> particularly good places for noise/experimental/ improv live music or any
> good record stores dealing in the same genres.  I'll be
> in that area this fall, and I know there is a really hopping music scene
> there, what with Boredoms, Eye, Otomo, and others based there. I just need
> to find it... My only luck so far has been hearing about a club called
> "The Bear" co-managed/owned by Yamamotor. Any and all information
> appreciated. Thanks,
>
> Jamie
>
>



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Lankin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Nu Band (Whitecage, Campbell), Fonda, Grassi) in Philadelphia, Wed, August 16th - Sweetnighter Productions
Date: 12 Aug 2000 20:25:25 -0400


The Nu Band

Wednesday, August 16th, 2000 - 9:30 pm -$12

Mark Whitecage (alto and soprano sax, clarinet, electronics)
Roy Campbell (trumpet, flugelhorn, pocket trumpet)
Joe Fonda (bass)
Lou Grassi (drums)

Plays and Players Club, 1714 Delancey St, Philadelphia

--

Future concerts:

   Tyrone Hill - Deep Space Posse (Aug 30)
   Toshi Makihara & Wally Shoup (Sept 6)
   Khan Jamal (Sep 13)
   High Zero Pre-festival featuring Jack Wright (Sep 20)
   The Vandermark 5 (Sep 27)
   The Fonda/Stevens Group (Oct)

--

For more information: http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Chadborne/Lehn
Date: 13 Aug 2000 05:09:40 GMT

From Forced Exposure:

CHADLEHN: C Inside CD (GROB 205). "The virtuous string player Eugene
Chadbourne and the ingenious synthesizer player Thomas Lehn met in the
summer of 1990 to celebrate an impossible event: the confrontation of a
banjo with an analogue EMS-synthesizer. Spontaneous improvisation in full
completion: C Inside actually documents the first meeting of these master
musicians."

Can anyone who's heard this give a brief description? I have given up on
trying to keep up w/ Chadbourne's new release avalanche. Also, doesn't that
1990 date seem a little odd?

Anyway, thanks,

WY
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Chadborne/Lehn
Date: 13 Aug 2000 01:35:41 EDT


In a message dated 8/13/00 1:10:57 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Can anyone who's heard this give a brief description? I have given up on
trying to keep up w/ Chadbourne's new release avalanche. Also, doesn't that
1990 date seem a little odd? >>

yep, 1990 is wrong, it's from 1999.

as for the CD, I've only heard it once, but it's about what you'd expect, as
weird as that sounds. it sounded to me like 2 solo concerts, one in each
channel. I'm not much of a Chadbourne fan, so others can decide how it fits
into his discography, but it's certainly one of the less essential Lehn
projects.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "kevin molony" <[e-mail]>
Subject: henry threadgill
Date: 13 Aug 2000 20:17:57 +0100

Some months ago threadgill's name was mentioned - A threadgill thread??? -
and in the follow up someone mentioned that the old about time albums had
been released on cd. I've trawled the net till my fingers are raw and can't
find any mention or stockists. (All the usual suspects have been rounded
up).

Can a kind person please point a finger .
Regards kevin m.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: henry threadgill
Date: 13 Aug 2000 15:46:13 EDT


In a message dated 8/13/00 3:22:48 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Some months ago threadgill's name was mentioned - A threadgill thread??? -
and in the follow up someone mentioned that the old about time albums had
been released on cd. I've trawled the net till my fingers are raw and can't
find any mention or stockists. (All the usual suspects have been rounded
up).

Can a kind person please point a finger . >>

www.cadencebuilding.com, search for threadgill.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
Date: 13 Aug 2000 21:29:05 -0400

>Perhaps you should just start with Volume One of the JSPs and then
>decide how much further you want to go.  If you add Volume Two you'll

Steve's post was quite good but thought I'd add that the four JSPs are now
available in a box set (one of those where they just took the original
album and added a case) that I've seen in a large chain for $23, a little
less than what I actually paid for the first two alone.  JSP also has a
dirt-cheap box of their Django.   I'd also add that the "American Icon" set
is about as good an overview of Armstrong's post-war career as we're likely
to get.

Lang





Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm

"Where Do You Want to Go Today"
Somewhere you can never take me!



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Gardner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Date: 14 Aug 2000 08:19:58 +0100

Does anyone on the list no anything about the huge new Rhino Box Set.

The new biography of Rahsaan "Bright Moments" lists in its discography a 13
CD box set called the "The WInds in Bb" as a future release. It says it
collects all the Atlantic recordings.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Date: 14 Aug 2000 09:00:25 -0400

> Does anyone on the list no anything about the huge new Rhino Box Set.


I seem to remember it being scheduled for late 2000 or early 2001 but that might be one of those false memories The Conspiracy planted to prevent me from testifying about the existence of leprechauns.  & yes it's supposed to be the "complete" Atlantic recordings.

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: report from newport
Date: 14 Aug 2000 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT)

Masada was good, they played right before Cassadra
Wilson, the crowd seem pretty receptive, tho a lot of
people decided to sleep throughout the entire
festival. Masada stuck to more lyrical songs, they
were gentle on the crowd and didnt really break into
too much emotional material. Dave and john were
playing well together  and really got the crowd
grooving out to their sounds. They played what that
audience was ready for, plus a bit more. Even though
the weather was crappy it was still great to listen to
the guys play on the newport harbor. I wonder who
talked zorn into playing at newport?

They scheduled masada and vernon reid at the same
time. A lot of the younger crowd wandered over to the
harbor tent to check out vernon reid's project with dj
logic, the rock sounds were just a bit too much for
members of the older generation, so they were checking
out masada. For a brief time, the newport jazz fest
was taken over by something everyone wasnt ready for.
I commend the JVC folks for that. They also gave zorn
a full page spread in their program, entitled The
Revolution Is In Your Ear, The Newport Rebels.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn's blowing / masada live 2000 cd
Date: 14 Aug 2000 17:07:50 +0200


i can only say it again - check out the live in sevilla 2000.

i listened to it several times over this past weekend. some of zorn's
solos - absolutely fantastic, i think. i get shivers every single time i
listen to them.

patRice

np: masada, live in sevilla 2000



jason tors wrote:

> I have noticed that zorn has been playing a lot better
> the past three or four times I have seen him live. The
> recent reports from sevilla masada is that his playing
> is top notch. I wonder what he has cooking up that he
> is getting back into such good shape with his playing?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Date: 14 Aug 2000 12:15:13 EDT

This mammoth box set actually supposed to come out in 2001 on Label M, which
is Joel Dorn's new imprint.

skip heller

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re:  Re: Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Date: 14 Aug 2000 12:18:49 -0400

> This mammoth box set actually supposed to come out in 2001 on Label >M, which is Joel Dorn's new imprint.

Any idea why Dorn left 32 Jazz?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens
Date: 14 Aug 2000 09:19:22 -0700

"Knitting Factory: Quality, If Not Cutting Edge"
http://www.calendarlive.com/calendarlive/calendar/20000814/t000076077.html

ICP: Sept. 4
SunRa Arkestra: Sept. 12
Dave Douglas Quartet: Sept. 14
Rova Sax 4tet + John French: Sept. 24

Hope for LA?




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Vandermark
Date: 14 Aug 2000 12:56:20 -0400

>finally, just today i stumbled on a (new?) V5 disc called "burn the
>incline".  It's on Atavistic, and i can't find a copyright notice anywhere
>on either the packaging or the discs themselves.  the disc came with a
>"limited edition" disc of the V5 playing vandermark's arrangements of
>'classic' free jazz tunes by the likes of ornette coleman, anthony
>braxton, sun ra, eric dolphy, cecil taylor...first impression: sounds good
>to me...

It's their new CD.  The first 1000 come with the bonus CD of "covers."

I picked up "Spaceways Incorporated" the other day, a trio of
Vandermark, Chris McBride (b), and Hamid Drake (d) doing the music of
Sun Ra and Funkadelic.  It's great!

Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens
Date: 14 Aug 2000 20:14:19 -0700

> ICP: Sept. 4

Wow. The Insane Clown Posse is playing at The Knit? Never would have
guessed.

Cheers,
Nirav
--
OnNow- Henry Threadgill- Too Much Sugar for a Dime
"Survival is not possible if one approaches his enviornment, the social
drama, with a fixed, unchangeable point of view- the witless repetitive
responce to the unpercieved."- Marshall McLuhan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens
Date: 14 Aug 2000 22:35:16 EDT

In a message dated Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:22:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]> writes:

<< > ICP: Sept. 4

Wow. The Insane Clown Posse is playing at The Knit? Never would have
guessed.

 >>

Ohhh gawd...nevermind me...just cleaning up the iced tea that shot out my nose...

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Hywel Davies <[e-mail]>
Subject: Defunkt on cd?
Date: 15 Aug 2000 05:15:47 -0700 (PDT)

anyone know if the Defunkt album "thermonuclear sweat"
will ever appear on cd?
also, anyone an opinion on the (chicago?) band Isotope
217? i heard a good track on the radio recently,i
think the cd was called "who stole the i walkman?"


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Tolento" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Eyvind Kang's NADEs
Date: 15 Aug 2000 15:32:13 GMT


I have enjoyed Eyvind KangÆs Tzadik releases "7 NADEs" and "Theater of
Mineral NADEs" immensely, as well as the "Sweetness of Sickness" album.  I
havenÆt heard "The Story of Iceland" yet but IÆm looking forward to getting
a hold of it eventually.  Any comments on the new release?

Even more exciting than his impressive, often insane playing are the hidden
concepts behind his compositions.  I get the impression thereÆs a vast
framework being built.  With repeated listenings I hear brief connections
throughout his work that hint at something B I G.  My question then is, what
exactly is a NADE?  Apparently Eyvind himself hasnÆt revealed much.  HereÆs
the best clue IÆve found so far.  Taken from
www.sonarchy.org/studio/aspfeatures/kang2.html

"Some NADEs are contained within other NADEs, some are very short, others
longer. In performance. some NADEs will use film and dance as visual
corollary."
There are 23 NADEs in all, however very few of the NADEs have been composed
yet. With his ASP grant, Eyvind set out to record and mix the first seven
NADEs, transforming them from concepts into "living NADEs." For the
recording of the NADEs, an ensemble was formed, comprised of 3 violins,
cello, flute, trumpet, trombone, acoustic bass, harpsichord, electric
guitar, a vocalist and narrators speaking in Japanese and French. Several of
the NADEs were improvisational in nature, taking inspiration from sketches
Eyvind drew yet bearing similar rhythmic structures to the highly composed
NADEs.ö

Can anybody add any more to that?


This important message has been brought to you by your sharp-witted friends
and colleagues at Empty Life Publishing, crafters of superior
post-underground comic bookery for the disturbed and disillusioned.
http://emptylife.netfirms.com

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Defunkt on cd?
Date: 15 Aug 2000 10:55:59 -0700

At 5:15 AM 8/15/00, Hywel Davies wrote:
>also, anyone an opinion on the (chicago?) band Isotope
>217? i heard a good track on the radio recently,i
>think the cd was called "who stole the i walkman?"
>
I haven't heard "I Walkman" yet, but have heard their first 2 CD's, neither
impressed me greatly. But I did see them live last year, and they were
terrific: straight-up Miles-ish fusion with a lot of energy, and the reason
I didn't like the CD's was that they were generally pretty low energy.

On a related note, I've been really liking the Chicago Underground Duo's
"Synesthesia" disc lately. CUD is Isotope trumpetter Rob Mazurek and
drummer/percussionist Chad Taylor. This record has a lot of really nice use
of analog synths combined with acoustic improv, similar to Herbie Hancock's
Sextant, but with a smaller group.

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: classic cobra snipet query
Date: 15 Aug 2000 22:04:51 +0200

I was listening to the Hat Hut Cobra 2LP
again after what sounds like an eternity, and I was wondering
if anybody could post what symphonic-like music record marclay
is throwing in midway through side A. My first guess was
Mahler but it's probably rather someone like Weill...

Stephane


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 15 Aug 2000 15:58:09 CDT

KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music,
   though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the
   common sense.  Is the name Kim Suk Chul?  Could someone correct me
   on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or
   outlets?  Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would
   be most welcomed.

Thanks in advance,

----s

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sigmund Nonanima <[e-mail]>
Subject: Beck and the Boredoms
Date: 15 Aug 2000 14:55:28 -0700 (PDT)

Okay, this has probably been talked about before, but
I just joined the list;
Does anyone know if Beck's new ablum, "Midnite
Vultures," features the Boredoms on the hidden track?
I'm torn, myself, because Beck usually indulges in
extended hidden tracks (similar to his latest), but
this one sounds in style like old Boredoms and in
production like new Boredoms...
and Beck thanks Eye and the Boredoms in the liner
notes, and Eye does the artwork...
I hope this isn't a stupid question.

[long live evil gnol]


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 15 Aug 2000 23:21:57 GMT




>From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
>
>KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music,
>   though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the
>   common sense.  Is the name Kim Suk Chul?  Could someone correct me
>   on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or
>   outlets?  Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would
>   be most welcomed.

Kim Sook-chul--hojok (piri)--is a Korean national treasure (such treasures
are given a number by the government).  As I'm sure everyone knows, his work
was sampled on Ground Zero's fabulous Consume Red.

Other recommendations:  Samulnori is absolutely essential.  their best stuff
though is on Korean labels run by the chaebol (check out Samsung, SK, etc.).
  They're a traditional Korean percussion ensemble playing rhythms of the
folk and farming traditions.  One can hear these instruments at any given
time at all universities around Korea.

I can make other recommendations regarding improv artists if you give me a
bit more time to pull my resources together.  If you can't find any CDs, let
me know.  I live in Seoul and can get most of everything.  The traditional
performances are often on local TV, and I can make tapes if you're
interested.

Bill

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 15 Aug 2000 22:47:49 EDT


In a message dated 8/15/00 4:59:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Is the name Kim Suk Chul?  Could someone correct me
   on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or
   outlets?  Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would
   be most welcomed. >>

the Kim Suk Chul CD I have is amazing, Shamanistic Ceremonies Of The Eastern
Seaboard (JVC). a real eye-opener, sounding somewhat like an incredible lost
free jazz record from the early seventies. highly, highly recommended if
you're lucky enough to find it.

<<If you can't find any CDs, let me know.  I live in Seoul and can get most
of everything. >>

are there a lot of Chul CDs available? I scoured NYC and the WWW a while
back, and didn't come up with much. I'd love to hear more...

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: RLW-Tulpas
Date: 15 Aug 2000 23:04:51 EDT

I just wanted to mention this 5 CD set again, since I've been gradually
making my way through it again over the last week. it's a 1997 project by
German composer/sound artist Ralf Wehowsky, and features contributions from
50 artists, everyone from Ryoji Ikeda to Rehberg and Bauer to Aube to John
Duncan to Christoph Heemann to Merzbow, on and on. but it never sounds like a
compilation or a tribute record, far from it. each of the five CDs was
ordered by Wehowsky with a specific concept in mind, and the whole project is
pretty flawless.

fans of the recent wave of electroacoustic improv and Kevin Drumm
specifically should make it a priority to pick this up. Drumm was greatly
influenced by Wehowsky, which Kevin would be the first to tell you. the two
actually have a collaborative CD coming out on RLW's label, Selektion
(www.selektion.com), in the near future.

anyway, it's 6 hours long and 32 bucks at Anomalous
(www.anomalousrecords.com).

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 16 Aug 2000 08:49:41 +0200


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Mittwoch, 16. August 2000 01:21


> Other recommendations:  Samulnori is absolutely essential.  their best
stuff
> though is on Korean labels run by the chaebol (check out Samsung, SK,
etc.).
>   They're a traditional Korean percussion ensemble playing rhythms of the
> folk and farming traditions.

actually, there is more  zorn-related content here!

thee was a '96 project of samul nori with the swiss group singing drums
(pierre favre, lucas niggli, roberto ottaviano, michel godard) together with
tom cora -

a great idea, and unfortunately only a one-off project, although the Basel
concert
was great (and taped, and once a potential release).

Stephane



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music
Date: 16 Aug 2000 10:37:26 +0200

Besides SamulNori, another astonishing traditional korean music is P'ansori
singing. It is a vocal art that would be an equivalent to a traditional
popular opera. Except that in P'ansori, the singer is alone with a hand
drummer, and sings all the roles. For example, the classic P'ansori piece
"Chunnyang" (an equivalent to "Romeo and Juliette") by Korean National
Treasure Kim So-Hee is long enough to fill a 6CD box. Yes, one singer
alone, 6 CDs...
I find in P'ansori emotions as intense as with Flamenco Puro singing (or
even more intense ?), with an extra oriental twist that makes it
furthermore really weird to occidental ears. As weird as some free improv,
maybe.
You might have already heard P'ansori if you've seen the beautiful korean
movie "Sopyonje" by Im Kwon Taek (this was broadcasted on french TV a few
years ago as "La chanteuse de P'ansori").
Or if you've heard of Zingaro's equestrial theatre, a previous show,
"Eclipse" featured korean musicians, including a P'ansori singer...

Recommendations, now
- My first introduction to P'ansori was through the album "P'ansori -
Korea's Eric Vocal Art & Instrumental Music" (1999), featuring a few tracks
by Kim So-Hee. It's on WEA/ATLANTIC/NONESUCH and does not limit itself to
P'ansori but also includes instrumental pieces. So I think it's a good
introduction to traditional korean music in general. It can be found anywhere.
- Then you can try any album by Kim So-Hee (I directly headed to the 6CD
Chunnyang, but you don't have to !!!).
- Ahn Sook-Seon did also beautiful things, not limited to the P'ansori art.

Then, two places to go:
- to order CDs (relatively cheap, but less and less traditional music
available):    http://www.koreapop.com/  (used to be iodo.com)
- for low-quality sound samples:
http://www.wa.gov/art/fa/Korean%20p'ansori%20musical%20features.htm

Hope it can help.

Pascal Cortes.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Logic?
Date: 16 Aug 2000 11:21:25 +0200 (MET DST)

Anyone have the name and label of any CDs released by DJ Logic? Thanks in
advance, Stephen







----------------

Richard Pettersson
Department of History of Science and Ideas
Ume=E5 University
S-901 87 Ume=E5, Sweden
Phone: [phone]
Telfax: 046 90 14 33 74

E-mail: [e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Logic?
Date: 16 Aug 2000 11:30:57 +0200

DJ Logic Website: http://www.djlogic.com/  (you can buy the Project Logic
CD on this website).

Otherwise the label for the Project Logic CD is: Ropeadope
(http://www.ropeadope.com/)

Pascal


At 11:21 16/08/00 +0200, you wrote:
>Anyone have the name and label of any CDs released by DJ Logic? Thanks in
>advance, Stephen
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: chango spasiuk
Date: 16 Aug 2000 12:08:18 +0200

Any idea where I can order Chango Spasiuks 'Polcas de mi tierra'?

Thank you


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trumpet for beginner's (NON ZORN RELATED)
Date: 16 Aug 2000 08:28:53 -0400

Hello list,

    The last couple of months I've been wanting to learn to play the trumpet,
so I was wondering if there is somekind of BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO TRUMPETS in
the internet where I can get information on prices, what should I buy, what
I shouldn't get, what I need, etc.

Thanks very much (please, response privately)

Neil H. Enet
------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music
Date: 16 Aug 2000 15:02:25 +0200

By the way.... if any of you Zorn addicts heard about a videotape of that
movie with subtitles (french, english or spanish), I've been looking for
one desperately for 2 years. I was told by the producer that videotapes are
only available in korean. So if one of you recorded it when it was
broadcasted, please, e-mail me privately.

The movie is "Sopyonje" by Im Kwon Taek. Spellings may vary depending on
source.
Was broadcasted on french TV a few years ago as "La chanteuse de P'ansori".

Thanks a lot (and sorry for non zorn content)
Pascal.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Logic?
Date: 16 Aug 2000 10:53:41 -0700

At 11:21 AM 8/16/00, Stephen Fruitman wrote:
>Anyone have the name and label of any CDs released by DJ Logic? Thanks in
>advance, Stephen

Project Logic, on Rope-A-Dope records, w/ Melvin Gibbs, John Medeski,
Graham Haynes, Ribot, and many others. Parts of the record are great, parts
are a little too happyjazz for me. Ths band is very good live, though.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------
>
>Richard Pettersson
>Department of History of Science and Ideas
>Ume=E5 University
>S-901 87 Ume=E5, Sweden
>Phone: [phone]
>Telfax: 046 90 14 33 74
>
>E-mail: [e-mail]
>
>
>
>-

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: classic cobra snipet query
Date: 16 Aug 2000 19:24:46 -0400

At 10:04 PM 8/15/00 +0200, Stephane Vuilleumier wrote:
>I was listening to the Hat Hut Cobra 2LP
>again after what sounds like an eternity, and I was wondering
>if anybody could post what symphonic-like music record marclay
>is throwing in midway through side A. My first guess was
>Mahler but it's probably rather someone like Weill...

No idea here, sounds like film music to me, but for those with the CD, it's
on the studio version, the opening of track 4 (Moderato).

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: chango spasiuk
Date: 16 Aug 2000 21:34:30 -0300

Hi,

Accordion extraordinaire Chango Spasiuk's  "Polcas de mi Tierra" was
released by Acqua Records, an Argentine label. Their Email address is:

[e-mail]

Spassiuk's Web Page is www.changospasiuk.com.ar

Try on line: www.zivals.com

Hope this helps,

Hugo Linares

PS: If you can't get it, let me know privately.




-----Mensaje original-----
De: dekater <[e-mail]>
Para: zornlist <[e-mail]>
Fecha: MiΘrcoles 16 de Agosto de 2000 07:10 AM
Asunto: chango spasiuk


>Any idea where I can order Chango Spasiuks 'Polcas de mi tierra'?
>
>Thank you
>
>
>-
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out...
Date: 17 Aug 2000 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT)

     For those of you who own the album before this
one, "Down Home," you will know what to expect.
Although I find this album to be a bit more mature,
defined, and the ideas are stronger this time around.
Nice art work too.  The playing has improved as well.
It sounds like everyone is supremely comfortable and
the solos are pleasant.  Joey has some groove oriented
solos too, which were really entirely absent from the
"Down Home" recording.
     But, really, how can one go wrong with this
line-up.... (frisell, blythe, carter, baron)

-Theo

=====
-That which is Theodorus    "Good bye sober day, hello milky way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out...
Date: 17 Aug 2000 16:18:25 +0200

Correct me if I am wrong, but Bruce from Downtown Music Gallery mentionned
in one of his newsletter that he will receive two new cds by Joey Baron next
week:
-Killer Joey (his new band)
-A new release by his band with Frisell, Blythe and Carter.

So does anyone on this list know something more on the latter one? Is this
allready the third cd by this outfit?

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

NP Haunted House, live at DGM (Cd-r release... very lo-fi but great shape)


-----Original Message-----
Sent: donderdag 17 augustus 2000 15:53


     For those of you who own the album before this
one, "Down Home," you will know what to expect.
Although I find this album to be a bit more mature,
defined, and the ideas are stronger this time around.
Nice art work too.  The playing has improved as well.
It sounds like everyone is supremely comfortable and
the solos are pleasant.  Joey has some groove oriented
solos too, which were really entirely absent from the
"Down Home" recording.
     But, really, how can one go wrong with this
line-up.... (frisell, blythe, carter, baron)

-Theo

=====
-That which is Theodorus    "Good bye sober day, hello milky
way..."www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

-

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: JAZZ NOTES FOR THURSDAY, 8/17/00 (Sun Ra News)
Date: 17 Aug 2000 13:27:04 EDT

Thought this might be of interest to some of the Ra fans on this list...

<<
 jazz-notes

  Thursday, 17 August 2000 4:46 (ET)


  Jazz Notes: Goings on in the jazz world
  By KEN FRANCKLING, United Press International

(snip)

   On the recording front...

   Pennsylvania-based Evidence Music is preparing a series of five CD
  releases due September 26 of rare Sun Ra recordings, including a two-CD
  boxed set of unreleased material.

   The series will include "When Angels Speak Of Love" by Sun Ra & His Myth
  Science Arkestra, "Pathways To Unknown Worlds/Friendly Love" by Sun Ra and
  His Astro Infinity Arkestra, and three projects by Sun Ra and his Arkestra.
  They are "Greatest Hits: Easy Listening For Intergalactic Travel,"
  "Lanquidity" and a two-disc set called "The Great Lost Sun Ra Albums:
  Cymbals & Crystal Spears."

   Evidence has been working on the series since issuing its award-winning
  Sun Ra compilation "The Singles" in 1996.

   The bandleader, composer and keyboardist known as Sun Ra claimed to be an
  extraterrestrial from the planet Saturn. Actually born Herman "Sonny" Blount
  in Birmingham, Ala., in 1914, he studied music at Alabama A&M University and
  became a big-band leader in his hometown.   Eventually, he moved to Chicago,
  where he wrote arrangements for Fletcher Henderson, change his name to Le
  Sony'r Ra, and start his first "Arkestra" with saxophonists and
  bandmembers-for-life John Gilmore, Marshall Allen and Pat Patrick.

   While he left the planet in 1993, the Sun Ra Arkestra continues to perform
  under the direction of Marshall Allen. Ra's music has influenced musicians
  ranging from George Clinton to Phish.


  --
  Copyright 2000 by United Press International.
  All rights reserved.
  >>

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens
Date: 17 Aug 2000 18:41:04 GMT

> > ICP: Sept. 4
>
>Wow. The Insane Clown Posse is playing at The Knit? Never would have
>guessed.

Well... ICP also = Instant Composers Pool, the Dutch big band w/ Misha
Mengelberg et al. I'm sorry if I am missing the sarcasm here but that is
most probably the ICP they're referring to.

WY
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Berne's (L)oops
Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:49:40 -0400

I caught (L)oops last night at Tonic.  (L)oops was billed as Tim
Berne's electonic project and consisted of Berne (as, bs), Tony
Malaby (ts), Tom Rainey (d), Craig Taborn (el. keys), and David Torn
(guitar, samplers, effects, electronics, etc.).  The first set was an
hour long free improv, no compositions.

It was just OK.  I don't think it worked well.  I only saw the first
set, I left before the second.  Davd Torn had samplers in addition to
his guitar and he had access to the other musicians' instuments (via
mics) and he sampled them and processed them like in Evan Parker's
electro-acoustic music.  That was really the only interesting part.
The low point, for me, was when Craig Taborn lost control of some
keyboard sound that he was generating.  He was so engrossed in some
other sounds he was making that he didn't notice this horrible white
noise gaining volume and power as time passed.  It was so bad that I
noticed a few members of the audience holding their ears.  David Torn
looked around inquiringly to find the source of the noise, presumably
wondering if he himself was making it.  He realized that it was
coming from the keyboard amps a while before Craig did.  Finally
Craig noticed it and turned it down.  I have to say that even though
Torn contributed most of the interesting material throughout the set,
there was very little of it and I personally think that Torn was much
of the reason I didn't enjoy it as much as I could.  When he wasn't
sampling other players (which was relatively rare) he was making very
unguitarlike noises with his guitar and many pedals, which is ok,
except that I didn't really enjoy those particular noises in the
surrounding context.

On the other hand, Rainey was great again, as he always is.  There
were a few 'solo' sections where Tim or Tony would play with the
other guys taking a back seat.  Those sections were nice.

I won't speak for others, I will only note that I saw many of the
people in attendance for the first set not stay for the second.  You
win some, you lose some.  I look forward to hearing the potential of
this group realized.

Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: _______steve beresford------- ~
Date: 17 Aug 2000 05:02:41 +0200

Zorn-agains,

Can anyone give some info on Steve Beresford's Cue Sheets. Is this as good
as the online one minute previews suggest ?


  _ Rob ......<.....   ||
     http://www.frontstage.com/rob
   "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening
     as the performer to playing". ________________________________

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: stolen instrument
Date: 17 Aug 2000 19:51:29 EDT

Dear friends:

Sorry to bother everyone, but my guitar was stolen today from my apartment in
the Silverlake district of Los Angeles.

If anyone finds themselves in any place where used instruments are sold,
kindly be on the lookout for a Mossman dreadnought accoustic guitar
(roundhole), with a rosewood neck and a mustard yellow top.  The back is very
scratched up, and it has an endpin with a 1/4" phone jack (for plugging into
an amp).  The tuning pegs are gold plate, and the pickguard is black. The
frets are in need of recrowning, too (i.e. they are worn, especially in the
first seven frets).  The butt-end of its black hardshell case has a blue
bumpersticker that reads I LOVE ("love" spelled by a heart) DOWNEY, a sticker
on the body area that says TIKI NEWS, and one over the neck area that says
DON'T FORGET WINONA.

I apologize for the inconvenience, but it is a one-of-a-kind instrument, and,
above all an instrument I treasure for personal reasons.  Please forward this
message to anyone you think may be helpful.  The loss of this instrument is
hard to accept.

Thank you --
skip heller

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: yet more dream syndicate
Date: 17 Aug 2000 21:08:26 -0400

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/vibes_feature3.html

A detailed look at the controversy but not entirely accurate (for instance
if something is public domain then a fair use defense is irrelevant).

Lang



Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: _______steve beresford------- ~
Date: 17 Aug 2000 21:58:15 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Zorn-agains,
>
> Can anyone give some info on Steve Beresford's Cue Sheets. Is this as good
> as the online one minute previews suggest ?

Don't know what's in the sample, but I like this album a lot. Some
Balkan influence, a dash of "Signals for Tea" type art-song. Very solid
all-around.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Blitzstein, Airborne Symphony

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Berne's (L)oops
Date: 18 Aug 2000 03:45:18 EDT

The second set was much, much better.  I enjoyed the first set, but it was a
bit dense for my tastes.   For the second set, everyone just seemed full of
creative ideas, the sound mix was better, and they all seemed to be enjoying
playing.

I'm totally into Torns concept of sampling and looping the other live
musicians.  Although he actually didnt do as much of this as i was expecting;
he did it to a much greater effect at the previous Torn/Berne/Previte gig
last year.
Five is about the maximum number of musicians i like to hear playing
improvised music at the same time.  I would love to see this lineup again.
Tony Malaby was a surprise for me, I'd only seen him once before, playing
tunes, but he's got a great mind for playing improvised stuff.
A similar lineup of this group will be touring Europe next may, only Marc
Ducret instead of David Torn, and they'll be playing compositions.
-Jody

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens
Date: 18 Aug 2000 09:13:23 GMT

Hey,

>Well... ICP also = Instant Composers Pool, the Dutch big band w/ Misha
>Mengelberg et al. I'm sorry if I am missing the sarcasm here but that is
>most probably the ICP they're referring to.

Yes, without a doubt. If both Misha and Bennink are recording in USA around
the same time, it makes alot of sense.

May I also insist that everybody in that area go to this concert, especially
fans of Insane Clown Possie. They are one of the most exiting bands on the
planet, and you might not get the chance to see them in the US anytime soon
again...

And please drop us a comment about it, if you go...

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Fruitman <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Funnest Album of the Year
Date: 18 Aug 2000 12:31:41 -0300

Another Norwegian who doesn=B4t know the meaning of the word "purism": Stian
Carstensen, _Farmers Market_ (Winter & Winter). Combines jazzy, Gypsy
accordian and sundry Bulgarian musicians on their domestic acoustic
instruments, with a tight combo of Norwegian jazz musicians and occasional
wailing guitars and tape loops and a dash of pickin=B4 and grinnin=B4 straig=
ht
outta the Ozarks via Constantinople. Once, a small Bulgarian women=B4s choir
pokes its head in. Some klezmer. Some ragtime. A remarkable piece for
tabla, clarinet, bass and funky wah-wah guitar. Never a hint of that
cloying aftertaste that sometimes lingers when someone gets the brilliant
idea of combining "ethnic" music and jazz or rock. Rather, there is
exhuberance, experimentation, melody, and a highly-developed sense of
humour - or what do you say about a Beatles-inspired guitar tune called
"Les Paul, More John"? Think Pachora versus Charms of the Night Sky versus
Nils Petter Molv=E6r versus the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Another gorgeous W&=
W
package, too, featuring a booklet full of beautiful b&w photos of Gypsies
from Uzbekistan, the Ukraine, Khazakstan and Turkmenistan. This is the kind
of album you don=B4t want to write about to describe, but rather just send
everybody you know a copy.

All the best, Stephen







Bj=F6rn Olsson,
Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia,
Ume=E5 universitet
901 87 Ume=E5
tel. [phone] fax 143374
e-post: [e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year
Date: 18 Aug 2000 12:03:03 -0500

Agreed, fully.  One of the very best records I've heard so far this year =
- and
one with its tongue planted firmly in its cheek.  Nice assessment of the
rather uncategorizable music, BTW.  I thought of Pachora, Ivo Papsov,
drum'n'bass, Headhunters...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

Stephen Fruitman wrote:

> Another Norwegian who doesn=B4t know the meaning of the word "purism": =
Stian
> Carstensen, _Farmers Market_ (Winter & Winter). Combines jazzy, Gypsy
> accordian and sundry Bulgarian musicians on their domestic acoustic
> instruments, with a tight combo of Norwegian jazz musicians and occasio=
nal
> wailing guitars and tape loops and a dash of pickin=B4 and grinnin=B4 s=
traight
> outta the Ozarks via Constantinople. Once, a small Bulgarian women=B4s =
choir
> pokes its head in. Some klezmer. Some ragtime. A remarkable piece for
> tabla, clarinet, bass and funky wah-wah guitar. Never a hint of that
> cloying aftertaste that sometimes lingers when someone gets the brillia=
nt
> idea of combining "ethnic" music and jazz or rock. Rather, there is
> exhuberance, experimentation, melody, and a highly-developed sense of
> humour - or what do you say about a Beatles-inspired guitar tune called
> "Les Paul, More John"? Think Pachora versus Charms of the Night Sky ver=
sus
> Nils Petter Molv=E6r versus the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Another gorgeo=
us W&W
> package, too, featuring a booklet full of beautiful b&w photos of Gypsi=
es
> from Uzbekistan, the Ukraine, Khazakstan and Turkmenistan. This is the =
kind
> of album you don=B4t want to write about to describe, but rather just s=
end
> everybody you know a copy.
>
> All the best, Stephen
>
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> Bj=F6rn Olsson,
> Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia,
> Ume=E5 universitet
> 901 87 Ume=E5
> tel. [phone] fax 143374
> e-post: [e-mail]
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linares Hugo <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The Funnest Album of the Year
Date: 18 Aug 2000 13:16:58 -0300



> rather uncategorizable music, BTW.  I thought of Pachora, Ivo Papsov,
> drum'n'bass, Headhunters...
>
>
>
    By the way, can anyone give any insight / comments on Ivo Papasov's
discography?

    Thanks in advance.

    Hugo Linares

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Hollywood Opens
Date: 18 Aug 2000 10:42:03 -0700

>Hey,
>
>>Well... ICP also = Instant Composers Pool, the Dutch big band w/ Misha
>>Mengelberg et al. I'm sorry if I am missing the sarcasm here but that is
>>most probably the ICP they're referring to.
>
>Yes, without a doubt. If both Misha and Bennink are recording in USA around
>the same time, it makes alot of sense.

The ICP is also going to be in Portland, OR, on Sept 2nd, so it does make sense.
>
>May I also insist that everybody in that area go to this concert, especially
>fans of Insane Clown Possie. They are one of the most exiting bands on the
>planet, and you might not get the chance to see them in the US anytime soon
>again...

Y'know, an ICP vs ICP face-off could be pretty entertaining, Bennink would
probably fit right in with the insane clown dudes :-)

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Better Late Than Never
Date: 18 Aug 2000 10:33:04 -0700

Did Simon H. Fell's COMPOSITION NO. 30 get discussed to death here at the
time of release? I just received it, and it won't leave the airwaves for a
long time. Its combination of structure and freedom played on a wondrous
combination of traditional, acoustic, electric, and prepared instruments is
one of the most satisfying pieces of music I have heard in a long time.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Better Late Than Never
Date: 18 Aug 2000 13:56:36 EDT


In a message dated 8/18/00 1:42:09 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Did Simon H. Fell's COMPOSITION NO. 30 get discussed to death here at the

time of release? I just received it, and it won't leave the airwaves for a

long time. Its combination of structure and freedom played on a wondrous

combination of traditional, acoustic, electric, and prepared instruments is

one of the most satisfying pieces of music I have heard in a long time.>>

yeah, it'd probably make my short list of best records of the nineties. I
posted a rave review here sometime in '98, but I don't seem to have it saved
anywhere. this list is archived somewhere, right?

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Haino record review:  Aihiyo Live
Date: 18 Aug 2000 14:10:25 -0400


Hello folks on the Zorn list,

Well, I have recently heard the new album by Keiji Haino's
group, Aihiyo, titled "Live", released on PSF this past June.
I haven't seen any reviews of it on this list so I thought
I would submit my own.

The disc features Keiji Haino (guitar, voice), Ikuro Takahashi (drums) and
Masami Kawaguchi (bass).  Takahashi was also the drummer for Fushitsusha
on the last four releases but has since apparently
"retired from music making".  The material was culled from Aihiyo live
performances in Japan mostly in the spring of last year.

As with the previous Aihiyo album (untitled, Tokuma, 1998),
the material is all cover songs.
1.  Your eyes have the sparkle of 10,000 volts (original by Tatsuo Horiuchi)
2.  150 tons of dynamite (?)
3.  Young fellows (?)
4.  Be My Baby (Ronettes)
5.  Vent your anger (Peter)
6.  The rose has bloomed (Mike Maki)
7.  The wind is weeping (Mops)
8.  Satisfaction (Rolling Stones)
9.  Soap bubble (?)

I think that Haino fans might be leery of a cover album because what is
interesting about Haino is his originality.  A cover albums seems in
contradiction to this.  However, this is no ordinary cover album.  The
only song whose original I am familiar with is the Rolling Stone's
Satisfaction.  Haino's interpretation of it is liberal to say the least.
It's a 14-minute anthem recognizable as Satisfaction in only a few spots,
and then just for short riffs.  In all of the songs, Haino's emotion
is at the forefront.  In all songs, Haino's artistic expression is in
full gear.

Through-out the disc has an amazing live sound of excellent quality,
a trait which has not always been present in Haino's live albums, e.g.
the Fushitusha releases on Blast First, Victo, and Charnel Music.
I'd almost say it's enough to pick up this disc based purely on
the excellent sound quality...
At times, Aihiyo leans toward the sound of Haino's solo releases and
seems more of an individual effort than Fushitsusha.  At other times,
the bass and drums are more prominent and the cd does sound a bit like
Fushitsusha.  But the difference between Aihiyo and the other projects
is that Haino is constrained to work within (admittedly broad) parameters
of the original songs.  This constraint gives the Aihiyo album a bit
of a more structured feel than solo or Fushitsusha releases.  It's a
different setting for Haino and it's one that he has worked to perfect.

My gut reaction to the Aihiyo disc is that it doesn't hit the same
heights that Fushitsusha or his solo work at its best does (a
very high standard).  On the other hand, the intention is different
and upon repeated listenings, I am less and less apt to feel that this
comparison is accurate or even meaningful.

At any rate, the disc borders on the fantastic (and I do not make
this statement indiscriminately).  It's definitely worth checking
out (as is the first Aihiyo cd) but this second one, coming off
an independent label, is a much cheaper import.

D. Keffer
Site Maintenance Man
An Unofficial Keiji Haino Website
(Now An Official Keiji Haino Website, though I am keeping the old name)
http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: tv trivia
Date: 18 Aug 2000 14:07:51 -0500


clipd from a knight-ridder story:

Copeland [stingz manager] says Sting, a one-time punk rocker still known for his
environmental activism, never would have considered a television commercial a
decade ago. It would have been dangerously close to "selling out," jeopardizing
his artistic credibility to shill for a product. But today, Copeland observes,
artists' attitudes have shifted towards "business is business." Since Nike
opened the door with the Beatles' "Revolution" in 1987, the Who (Dell), the
Rolling Stones (Microsoft), Nick Drake (Volkswagen), the Buzzcocks (Nissan), the
Minutemen (Volvo) and Tortoise (Calvin Klein) are among the artists who have
walked through it.

ok, this is what i'm missing by not having a television? remind me not to get
one. but still i'm curious... what are the minutemen and buzzcocks songs and how
are they used?


btw, it's a pretty good article, incuding quotes from tom frank, editor of the
excellent journal 'the baffler,' and some guy from astralwerks. write me if you
want the whole thing.

or, for that matter, you can also write me for a copy of a story about the
progress of the proposed bluegrass museum in kentucky.

new threadgill band next month at the knit!!!

kg



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: tv trivia
Date: 18 Aug 2000 16:09:42 EDT

Buzzcocks - what do I get

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tv trivia
Date: 18 Aug 2000 17:24:23 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:

> new threadgill band next month at the knit!!!

Kurt (or anyone)

Do you know who's in this band or, for that matter, if the band's name
is pronounced "zooid" (Zoe-oyd) or "Zoo ID" (Zu-ay-dee)? Anal Threadgill
fans need to know.

Brian Olewnick (Still catching himself saying "am" instead of A-M-M.)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Purple Trap
Date: 18 Aug 2000 18:15:39 -0400

Hello list,

    Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of
Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_
    It looks like it's somekind of Painkiller noise, is this right?

Thanks for the info

Neil H. Enet
------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Purple Trap
Date: 18 Aug 2000 19:21:59 EDT


In a message dated 8/18/00 6:17:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of
Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ >>

yep, it's a "power" trio of Haino, Laswell,and Rashied Ali. pretty wanky,
badly recorded and/or produced, and probably the worst Haino disc I've ever
heard.

just my opinion...

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out...
Date: 18 Aug 2000 18:57:58 -0500 (CDT)


On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Zorn List Digest wrote:
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Theo Klaase [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: donderdag 17 augustus 2000 15:53
> To: Zorn List
> Subject: Joey Baron - We'll soon find out...

>      But, really, how can one go wrong with this
> line-up.... (frisell, blythe, carter, baron)

I just saw this disc at rhino records here in LA yesterday.  i thought it
was interesting that joey baron's trio with ribot and medeski also plays
most or all of the tunes on the disc, e.g., at their shows at yoshi's
in san francisco last year (which was recorded by fans and is floating
around).  it's nice to hear the different renditions by the differing
groups...

whit


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Purple Trap
Date: 18 Aug 2000 20:12:56 -0400

>In a message dated 8/18/00 6:17:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of
>Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ >>
>
>yep, it's a "power" trio of Haino, Laswell,and Rashied Ali. pretty wanky,
>badly recorded and/or produced, and probably the worst Haino disc I've ever
>heard.
>
>just my opinion...

    I think its a great meeting of Laswell & Ali, its just that
neither seem to be playing with haino, nor he with them.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Purple Trap
Date: 18 Aug 2000 17:38:44 -0700

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]

> In a message dated 8/18/00 6:17:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Any comments on Purple Trap's _Decided... Already The
> Motionless Heart Of
> Tranquility, Tangling The Prayer Called "I"_ >>

> yep, it's a "power" trio of Haino, Laswell,and Rashied Ali. pretty wanky,
> badly recorded and/or produced, and probably the worst Haino disc
> I've ever
> heard.

I second the motion. Haino goes wank wank wank. And Laswell goes bwomp bwomp
bwomp.

Granted, Haino has cranked out some pretty self-indulgent stuff, but there's
a certain lunatic intensity that runs through the drone-and-shriek albums.
In the case of "Decided," they don't seem to gel. I don't know, maybe they
just weren't listening to each other.

Part of my disappointment is the fact that the lineup should have made a
killer album, but no. For a fantastic collab disc, the Haino/Baron/Cohen
album will suffice...

Later,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: tv trivia
Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:29:18 EDT

Surely someone must remember at least 4 or 5 years ago (maybe more) that
Torture Garden tunes were used for at least two different products on TV?
'Shangkuan Ling Feng' was one of them, for sure, and I know there was another
one as well, I believe.  I wanna say maybe sneakers and/or video games were
being advertised....

I'm not making this up, BTW

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Purple Trap
Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:45:04 EDT

I haven't heard this, but the general sentiment (negative) doesn't surprise
me.

2 reasons:

1) Laswell's on it.  His glubby sounding bass has made quite a few
potentially good to great albums mediocre at best.  The first Massacre, parts
of Painkiller, and the first Praxis album are by far the best things I've
heard including his involvement, and I suspect I like these because the main
responsibility of the concepts/compositions are more attributable to other
people: Frith, Zorn, and everyone else on the Praxis album, respectively.
Most other things have his low-end mush and at least one example of that faux
reggae thing he can't seem to get away from.

2) Tazdik has something like 20-40 albums come out per year.  Even
potentially great collaborations seem to be compromised due to the apprent
need to just crank 'em out.

I love everything I've heard of Fushitsusha and Keiji Haino, BTW.

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Weird Little Boy
Date: 18 Aug 2000 23:03:39 -0400

Can any one tell me about Weird Little (the Zorn, Patton, and Spurance
collaboration)?  As in who did the compositions/arrangements and why it is
so expensive (more than most imports).  Any other information about style or
the songs themselves would be helpful.

Zach

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy
Date: 19 Aug 2000 13:08:25 +1000

> Can any one tell me about Weird Little (the Zorn, Patton, and Spurance
> collaboration)?  As in who did the compositions/arrangements and why it is
> so expensive (more than most imports).  Any other information about style
or
> the songs themselves would be helpful.

I think it is actually improvised, not written or arranged by anyone in
particular. From memory, the stuff on there ranges from repetitive rocky
stuff to ambient. Spruance has said it is one of the worst things he has
ever been a part of, but it's not really _that_ bad a listen. It's certainly
not worth the high price, but I found mine second hand and I think it was
worth it, especially including the quite interesting artwork...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Avant
Date: 18 Aug 2000 23:31:47 -0400

Does the label Avant have an official website with information on release, a
online store, etc ?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tv trivia
Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:59:53 -0400


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 10:29 PM


> Surely someone must remember at least 4 or 5 years ago (maybe more) that
> Torture Garden tunes were used for at least two different products on TV?
> 'Shangkuan Ling Feng' was one of them, for sure, and I know there was
another
> one as well, I believe.  I wanna say maybe sneakers and/or video games
were
> being advertised....

Sega video game system, right?

-Jesse


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: New Zorn!
Date: 19 Aug 2000 01:37:15 EDT

John Zorn: Cartoon S/M=20
Passionate performances of John Zorn=E2=80=99s exciting chamber music by som=
e of the=20
greatest European classical masters. Divided into light and dark, with one C=
D=20
of quirky cutup compositions influenced by (among many other things) cartoon=
=20
music and another from Zorn=E2=80=99s S/M "Torture Garden" period. Both CDs=20=
conclude=20
with different versions of Zorn=E2=80=99s Jewish standard Kol Nidre includin=
g the=20
world premiere recording of his version for clarinet quartet. Beautifully=20
produced by Dutch master musicologist Gert-Jan Blom. =20

not coming out till october, looks like the most promising release on Tzadik=
=20
for the next couple of months.

from,
matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: tv trivia
Date: 19 Aug 2000 04:45:32 +0200


> ok, this is what i'm missing by not having a television? remind me not to
get
> one. but still i'm curious... what are the minutemen and buzzcocks songs
and how
> are they used?

We here in Europe also got the Microsoft ad with David Bowie's 'heroes' (the
only way to hear Frippertronics on TV;-])
Marcin Gokieli

[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year
Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:42:54 EDT

In a message dated 8/18/00 12:19:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<  By the way, can anyone give any insight / comments on Ivo Papasov's
 discography?  >>

I only know of the two CDs on Hannibal.  The second one, _Balkanology_ has
some of the most insane time sigs I've ever heard, and equally amazing
playing.  It is an absolute must.

To think that people *dance* to this music just kills me.

This second CD was released, what- 10 years ago?  He seems to have dropped
off the planet...

--
np: OST- Babylon (specifically, Aswad's dubbed-out classic "Hey, Jah
Children")

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: tv trivia
Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:50:36 EDT

In a message dated 8/18/00 11:45:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< > Surely someone must remember at least 4 or 5 years ago (maybe more) that
 > Torture Garden tunes were used for at least two different products on TV?
 > 'Shangkuan Ling Feng' was one of them, for sure, and I know there was
 another
 > one as well, I believe.  I wanna say maybe sneakers and/or video games
 were
 > being advertised....

 Sega video game system, right?

 -Jesse
  >>
 Yeah, maybe.  I don't think I'd be abel to identify the product(s) even if I
heard it; it was quite a while ago.

-matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: living daylights
Date: 19 Aug 2000 14:03:58 EDT

Just recieved their CD, which was produced by Lee Townsend and feature
Frisell.  Anybody have any info on this group?

skip heller

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  RE: living daylights
Date: 19 Aug 2000 16:06:30 EDT

living daylights: electric rosary
liquid city records

personnel:
Jessica Lurie: woodwinds
Arnie Livingston: bass
Dale Fanning: drums, percussion

with Frisell on four tunes

produced by Lee Towsend

my first (cursory) listen, it sounds sort of like an avant-y jam band.

skip h

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Funnest Album of the Year
Date: 20 Aug 2000 08:47:04 +0200

> This second CD was released, what- 10 years ago?  He seems to have dropped
> off the planet...

I heard him in Istanbul w. Yildiz Ibrahimova and Okay Temiz...
_________________
Francesco Martinelli
Lungarno Mediceo 10
56127 PISA ITALY
email: [e-mail]
webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/
fax [phone]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: tv trivia
Date: 20 Aug 2000 21:21:48 -0400

On Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 04:45:32AM +0200, Marcin Gokieli wrote:

> We here in Europe also got the Microsoft ad with David Bowie's 'heroes' (the
> only way to hear Frippertronics on TV;-])

To be pedantic for a moment: while it is indeed Fripp's guitar, I'd be
quite amazed if it were Frippertronics, since it doesn't repeat in the
way that Frippertronics do, and the stories I've heard of the session
(that Fripp hooked up and put down the solo on a first take, without
having listened to the song first) make no mention of the use of the
double-tapedeck technology.

Damn, that's a convoluted sentence,,,

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: tv trivia
Date: 21 Aug 2000 00:32:28 -0500

At 09:21 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>
>To be pedantic for a moment: while it is indeed Fripp's guitar, I'd be
>quite amazed if it were Frippertronics,

And isn't the version that Microsoft used for their ads the Wallflowers
version?  It seems to me I remember hearing the music in the ad and
thinking 'cool - bowie' and then realizing it wasn't even his version.  So
it might not even be Fripp's guitar, much less the Frippertronics (which I
believe he did not use on Bowie's album(s), but he did use with Gabriel and
Daryl Hall).



Craig M. Rath
H: [e-mail]
W: [e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Gardner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #13
Date: 21 Aug 2000 08:02:48 +0100

Following my request for info on the Rahsaan Roland Kirk Complete Atlantic
box set. I contacted Rhino and got this reply.


 Richard,
 This is a Joel Dorn project and Rhino has no involvement in it. We
have no idea what the release date may be. Sorry


If Joel Dorn has left 32 Jazz. Where is this coming out?

Richard Gardner

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Radio Cover
Date: 21 Aug 2000 03:13:22 -0400

Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks remarkably
like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle.  Is
there a connection?

Zach

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:42:24 +0200

Hello

Just bought the reissue of the big gundown....
Why? The disc seems to have an improved sound quality.... Maybe on a 1000
dollar hifi system, but on my stereo, I can't hear the difference.
Off course, the reason for purchasing the disc is because of the bonus
tracks. There are 5 new songs (tracks 11 till 15). Keyplayers are feldman,
friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista, hatori, saft, patton, bailey,
dunn.
I think that everyone on this list knows the distinctive ways that these
persons play.... but THE surprise for me was the track featuring marc
ribot - trevor dunn - joey baron - derek bailey. No, don't expect dereks'
typical cluster playing.... but the same style on his tzadik record with
tacuma and weston. Only this time, the track is much much noisier. It is
great to hear ribot and baron play again in their 80's period: fat, noisy
and dirty.

Personally, this track only made the purchase ok

NP Eugene Chadbourne: Pachuko cadaver
Stefan Verstraeten

[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:14:17 GMT

Hello!

Sounds very interesting! Can you give the titles of the new tracks? I can't
seem to find a tracklist anywhere on the net...

Thanks!

ARTHUR_G


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Small FS list (non-Zorn)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 05:45:36 -0400

I have the following items for sale that
some on this list may be interested in.

All prices _US $_.  POSTAGE PAID within North America.
Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged.

If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$25 -- Christoph Heemann - "Invisible Barrier" US CD (Extreme: xcd019) =
1993
       [Excellent Heemann release on Extreme.  His first major solo out=
ing
       (after the Robot 10") recorded in 1992.  Long out of print.]
$15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992
$35 -- H.N.A.S. - "Gegenst=E4nde Fallen Zu Boden" GER CD (Dom Elchklang=
:
       dom ek 008) 1994  [Heemann & P. Li Khan w/ Andreas Martin, Frank
       Dommert and more.  Material from 1986 - 89 ... from the "Bitte
       Werfen Sie Ihren M=FCll Aus Dem Fenster" LP, "Neue deutsche Post
       Avantgarde" comp LP, "Ciguri" comp LP, and the "Face To Face V.2=
"
       LP (w/ Vox Populi).  Digipak.  Limited to 1000.  Out of print.]
$16 -- Miles Davis - "On The Corner" JAP CD (Sony Japan: srcs9125) 1998
       [Japanese 1998 "Master Sound" series reissue (SBM) of 1972 class=
ic
       in gatefold mini-LP sleeve w/ insert.  Mint.]
$25 -- Paul Sch=FCtze - "New Maps Of Hell" US CD (Extreme: xcd015) 1992
       [First pressing on Extreme w/ original artwork.  Feat. "A Soul
       Reports" not on the 1996 UK reissue.  Long out of print.]
$10 -- Scorn - "Lick Forever Dog" UK CD (Earache UK: MOSH 61) 1992
       [Classic, dub-heavy, early material.  Out of print.]
$18 -- Stefan Tischler - "Excess Of Free Speech" CD (Extreme: xcd014) 1=
992
       [Early release on the Extreme label.  Out of print.]

more at:
[ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ]

Thanks for looking.


-Patrick
[e-mail]






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dominic Lash <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Purple Trap
Date: 21 Aug 2000 14:04:23 +0100

Just to give a more positive slant on this album (which I enjoy a lot): It's
interesting that Rich Williams describes it as a good meeting between Laswell
and Ali, with Haino divorced from them, because Biba Kopf (I think), reviewing
it in the Wire, said the same about it, except that he applauded the link
between Haino and Ali, calling Laswell superfluous. I feel that all three
players opt in general for a sort of angular interaction, preferring to allow
complexities that can be understood on repeated listenings, rather than an easy
corying of riffs or falling into rhythmic patterns. All the players have their
strengths: Haino's voice, Laswell's distorted and envelope filtered parts, and
Ali in general! Interstingly, I listened to this album soon after having seen
Fushitsusha at the London Garage, and I felt that it stood up more to bedroom
listening than much of the recorded Fushitsusha I have heard. Haino's guitar,
in the largely un-effected style on Purple Trap, is less stunning than the full
force of him live, but recordings of his wall-of-sound style can't really
convey the emotional, sonic, and purely physical power his Marshalls generate.
The (realative) delicacy of Purple Trap, I feel, stands up more to detailed
home listening.
 That said, I don't think anything essential would have been lost if it had
been only a single CD . ..
Dom

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: henry'n'haino (myra, carla...)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:28:09 -0500


Brian O asked:
Do you know who's in this band or, for that matter, if the band's name
is pronounced "zooid" (Zoe-oyd) or "Zoo ID" (Zu-ay-dee)? Anal Threadgill
fans need to know.

spoke with henry friday night (he was checking out equal interest at tonic). i
wish i could remember everything he told me about the line-up, but it was mostly
names i didn't know. 5 or 6 piece including tony cedras, min xao fen, a cuban
percussionist and someone playing oud (an oudist?). and, he said, it is
pronounced zoe-id.

also came up in a grandly social evening between sets at tonic was the carla
bley record 'the elevator over the hill' or something. someone brought it up,
others chimed in their love for, and leroy jenkins, standing there, modestly
pointed out that he played on it. i remember that record coming up here before
(brian again?). please: reviews, thoughts, info, and is it out on cd? (patrice?)

and since i'm talking, equal interest. i feel this trio (melford/jenkins/jarman)
is growing from a beautiful meeting of minds to something that could be a
significant band that will be around for a while (or at least i hope so, after
myra gets back from her 9 mos. studying classical composition in india). if you
don't have the disc, get it. and then next year, go see them.


it has also been said that...
Part of my disappointment is the fact that the lineup should have made a
killer album, but no. For a fantastic collab disc, the Haino/Baron/Cohen
album will suffice...

wow, i couldn't agree less... none of the three zornlabel releases rank among
haino's best. the percussion one on tzadik is pretty unpopular, but i rather
like it (although i rarely listen to it). the laswell/ali trio is what it is, a
superjam. powerful if somewhat superficial. but i do enjoy it. the cohen/baron
trio is, i think, easily the worst thing haino's released that i've heard (and
i've got a pretty healthy collection). it's wretched, haino's accoustic playing
leaves a guitarist to be desired and i think i'll go sell it.


Stefan Verstraeten noted:
NP Eugene Chadbourne: Pachuko cadaver

interestingly enough, me too.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: henry'n'haino (myra, carla...)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 08:36:25 -0700

Stefan Verstraeten noted:
NP Eugene Chadbourne: Pachuko cadaver

interestingly enough, me too.
_________________________________

I started my day viewing the film footage of Trout-era Magic Band on the
Grow Fins CD-Rom.

For you SoCalifornians, pfMENTUM has Chadbourne booked at Ventura City Hall
on Dec. 2, with Jeff Kaiser's Quintet opening. Details when the time
approaches.








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike White <[e-mail]>
Subject: ono / comme des garcons / lindsay remixes
Date: 21 Aug 2000 12:45:32 -0400 (EDT)

I have just bought the separate Vol. I and Vol. II Comme des Garcons by
Seigen Ono.  I honestly have mixed impressions of it.
I have read there is a 2XCD Japanese issue of Comme des Garcons which has
remixes by Arto Lindsay on the second CD.  Track listings for this are
different than for each of the separate volumes I already own.

Does anybody have information or impressions of the 2XCD issue, expecially
the remixes?  It appears available for a hefty price, so I'd like to know if
anybody thinks it's worthwhile.


______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #14
Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:48:49 -0700

> From: [e-mail]
>
> <<  By the way, can anyone give any insight / comments on Ivo Papasov's
>  discography?  >>
>
> I only know of the two CDs on Hannibal.  The second one, _Balkanology_ has
> some of the most insane time sigs I've ever heard, and equally amazing
> playing.  It is an absolute must.
>
> To think that people *dance* to this music just kills me.
>

To think that people can listen to this and *not dance* kills me!

Dan


_______________________________________________________________________

Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now!
http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html

_______________________________________________________________________


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: some recent acquisitions (long)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:58:28 -0500 (CDT)


i'm on vacation, which means i let myself spend money, resulting in the
purchase of (with biased opinions):

uri caine - goldberg variations - this received some mention previously on
the list.  more 'variations' of classical music (this time bach) along the
lines of the mahler project.  more musicians and more variation on this
one, although not as much extended 'jamming'.  i like it better than the
mahler probably because i don't like mahler that much but do like the
goldberg variations, despite really liking the lineups on the mahler
discs.  my only bone to pick is one i've picked before (besides the
packaging): Like usual, Caine puts the vocalists to relatively ineffectual
use - David Moss mutters and babbles over some choral works that, in my
opinion, would have been better served left untouched, and vinicius
cantuaria mumbles some fake portgeuese lyrics over a brazilian variation
that, like the 'bossa nova-ish' tune on the mahler discs, only serves to
distract us from the wonderful miles'-60's-quintet-like interplay of the
band.  All of this would be nicer if there were any interaction between
the vocalist and the rest of the band, but it just sounds as if the vocals
were dubbed in later.  and the 'dig it' variation - consisting of
someone singing 'dig it, dig it, dig it over and over for the entire
tune', is a waste of time - sounds like a weird al yankovic outtake.
Why spend so much time arranging variations only to treat the vocals as
an afterthought? The two tracks with poetry are nice, although one gets
the feeling that 'fugue-ing' sadiq bey's reading in the studio was an
afterthought (since the poem itself doesn't fugue - i hope i'm using the
right term here).  The two tracks with barbara walter singing are nice, as
they actually have lyrics (i.e., a plan). Moss' contributions on some of
the other tracks are more significant and work nicely.  anyway, the amount
of time ive spent complaining about the use of vocals is not an accurate
indication of the amount of time occupied by vocal tracks on the discs
themselves - most of the time is instrumentals.  anyway, very nice music,
overall.

Cuong Vu - Bound - w/ jim black (d), jamie saft (keys), and stomu takeishi
(elb).  I am very happy with this album, as it is better than i expected
(not that i really knew what to expect).  The songs range from slow
'ballads' to 'funky' intense blowouts.  Jim black's distinct sound is
essential to the final product, and he does a great job; Saft's wah-wah
electric piano lends the group a 70's-era sound, and this is supported
(particularly in the slow tunes) by vu's composition style.  Really
impressed.  Vu sings on one track and surprise to me, i even like that
one.  Stomu Takeishi on bass works out well, but for some reason his bass
sound lacks sustain, which makes it quite percussive and thus it
often fails to provide the basis for any chord changes (same as on Myra
Melford's 'crush' disc, 'dance beyond the color').  I find myself wishing
it were Jaco on bass at times...on the whole, though, very nice and i look
forward to hearing more of vu and his compositions.

Christian Marclay & Gunter Muller - Liveimprovisations - turntable and
percussion/electronics duos.  Pretty noisy, but full of wonderful (and
humorous) moments.  a short disc (~35 minutes) recorded live at various
places in europe 1992 and 1993.  lots of pops, crackles, etc, due to
marclay, and complemented nicely by Muller.  actually, i often can't tell
who is making what noise.  wish the disc were longer.

Various artists vs. Disinformation - Al-Jabr - well, this one was an
accident.  I read the back "evan parker, jim o'rourke, lawrence casserley,
mechos, simon fisher turner, tactile, and T:un[k] systems", and thought it
was a group improv.  Turns out it's a remix cd of 'electric power grid
distortion noise' provided by someone or some group called
'disinformation'.  after getting over my initial shock, it turns out the
disc is pretty good.  parker provides a 13 minute drone with deep bass
distortion overlaid with multiple saxophone tracks; jim o'rourke's
contribution is hilarious, as it takes a jab at rap music and it's deep
booming bass sound (but it's a short contribution, only a couple of
minutes).casserley's track is short, and sounds like his usual processed
sounds as heard on the evan parker discs.  The tactile track takes deep
booming bass to new levels of deepness and boomingness (and the o'rourke
track has no bass end at all, btw).  Overall, a cohesive remix disc.  not
beat-oriented at all, btw.

Vandermark 5 - Burn the Incline.  Good stuff.  Less of the psuedo-funky
music that characterized their first two discs (haven't really listened to
simpatico, so can't say).  Strong playing all around as usual, with some
nice free moments.  My copy came with the bonus disc (are there really
only 1000 of them?  i see them everywhere i look), which is great.  I
haven't gotten to the cover of bowie's 'new york is full of lonely
people', but i'm looking forward to it.

Masada - live in sevilla - yes, it's good.  not sure how to compare it to
other masada releases, although zorn's playing does seem particularly
good, if still full of the usual zorn-isms.  I've listened to the first 4
or 5 tracks probably 10 times, but have yet to make it through the whole
disc.  Baron seems a little restrained and not as bombastic as usual.  The
rhythm section is tight as nails.  Douglas is douglas - i think i like his
playing more on the middleheim disc, or on the taipei disc.

frank sinatra - come dance with me - my first sinatra album and still my
favorite (along with @ the sands and sinatra and jobim).  i think it's his
first with billy may doing the arranging (as opposed to nelson riddle),
and it swings.  the cd version is augmented with 4 bonus tracks that are
just as good as the rest of the disc.  and the picture on the back always
makes me think of jack nicholson in the shining - 'heeeeeeer's frankie!'

happy monday,
whit



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: henry'n'haino (myra, carla...)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:45:07 -0700

> also came up in a grandly social evening between sets at tonic was the =
carla bley record 'the elevator over the hill' or something.=20

"Escalator Over The Hill... It's been a LONG time since I've listened to =
that and sadly, I don't have a copy anymore. Which brings me to another =
project Carla Bley was involved in... Any clues where I might find a copy?

The Michael Mantler / Edward Gorey "The Hapless Child And Other Stories", =
including Steve Swallow, Robert Wyatt, Terje Rypdal and Carla. Once =
again... I have the vinyl somewhere, but it's misplaced from a move 2 =
years ago and I'm really missing it. This is a real blowing session with =
Terje really blazing everywhere. Lot's of great Robert Wyatt vocalizing as =
well...=20

I'm trying to find available copies of the Ray Anderson, Christy Doran, =
Hans Bennink titles "Azurity" and "Cheer Up". They're out of stock on =
Cheer Up at the Cadence web site. Any leads anyone?

Best,
-Miko Biffle


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Purple Trap
Date: 21 Aug 2000 13:37:44 -0400



Well, I figured I would add my two cents in on the
recent commentary of the Haino/Laswell/Ali cd on Tzadik.
The release has gotten a lot of negative press since it
first came out in March of 1999.  I think I may sounded
an opinion in the Zorn list back then.)  Anyway, having
listened to the cd over the past year, I think that there
are a couple fine gems on cd.  The cd is over two hours
long and there is at least 20 minutes or so of really
listenable tracks.  So, I don't think it is a complete
wash, as some have indicated here on the Zorn list.

David K.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: hatart + anderson/bennink/doran + bley
Date: 21 Aug 2000 13:10:31 CDT

>From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
>"Escalator Over The Hill... It's been a LONG time since I've listened >to
>that and sadly, I don't have a copy anymore. Which brings me to >another
>project Carla Bley was involved in... Any clues where I might >find a copy?

As far as I know, you can get this and almost every other ECM CD or LP from
their Munich warehouse, at reasonable prices.  I just succesfully ordered
Mantler/JCOA/Cecil Taylor COMMUNICATIONS on CD, as well as Edward Vesala's
LUMI---two discs I'd heard were way out of print.  I suspect the remainders
lie in wait in Munich.  http://www.ecmrecords.com

>I'm trying to find available copies of the Ray Anderson, Christy >Doran,
>Hans Bennink titles "Azurity" and "Cheer Up". They're out of >stock on
>Cheer Up at the Cadence web site. Any leads anyone?

Try Jazz Record Mart in Chicago, http://www.jazzmart.com/jrm.home.htm
I'll post the list of what they have left, simply because I think it might
not be up-to-date on their site.  Apologies for bandwidth usage. (I'm not at
all affiliated with JRM, nor do I live anywhere near them.  Just a helpful
tip for record hounds.  AZURETY and CHEER UP are both terrific records,
BTW.)

-----s


JAZZ RECORD MART HAT ART SALE
all discs are $6.99 unless otherwise listed
6001   Herbert  Distel-Reise
6007   Habarigani-S/T
6013   Urs Leimgruber-Statement of Antirider
6015   Sato Michihiro-Rodan
6017   Fritz Hauser-Die Trommel & Die Welle
6034   Ton Art-Zu
6037   Fritz Hauser & Stephan Grieder-The Mirror
6038   Vienna Art Orchestra-Concerto Piccolo
6049   Urs Leimgruber-Ungleich
6060   Herbert Distel-Stazione
6064   Habarigani-Two
6067   Fritz Hauser-Pensieri Bianchi
6091   Urs Leimgruber/Fritz Hauser-L;enigmatique
6094   Maarten Altena Ens-Code
6095   John Cage -62 Mesostics: (2 CD's 13.99)
6110   Hans Kennel-Mytha
6111   John Cage- Atlas Eclipticales
6114   Kazuo Fukushima-Works for Flute and Piano
6116   Steve Lacy-Clangs
6123   Franz Koglmann-Cantos I-IV
6130   Galina Ustvolskaya-Compositions 2
6131   Mathias Spahlinger-Extension 1979/80
6133   Tom Johnson-Rational Melodies 1982
6138   Dave Burrell-Windward Passages
6141   John Cage-Winter Music
6143   Morton Feldman-Works for Piano 2
6144   The Bad Boys!- Henry Cowell,etc
6146   New York School Vol.2- Feldman,Brown,Wolff
6147   Earle Brown-Four Systems
6148   Scelsi,Byzantium,The Alchemists- Voxnova
6149   Urs Leimgruber, Roidinger & Hauser-Lines
6151   Hans Kennel-Mythohorns 2
6152   Westbrook-Rossini- Zurich Live 1986 -(2 CDs-$13.99)
6155   Ray Anderson, Han Bennik, Christian Doran-Azurety
6156   Christian Wolff-For Ruth Crawford
6157   Soviet Avant Garde
6159   John Cage-Ten
6163   Franz Koglmann/Lee Konitz-We Thought About Duke
61202 Morton Feldman-for Christian Wolf (3 CD's: $20.99)


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: hatart + anderson/bennink/doran + bley
Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:27:49 -0700


On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:10:31 CDT  "Kristopher S. Handley" wrote:
>
> As far as I know, you can get this and almost every other ECM CD or LP from
> their Munich warehouse, at reasonable prices.  I just succesfully ordered
> Mantler/JCOA/Cecil Taylor COMMUNICATIONS on CD, as well as Edward Vesala's
> LUMI---two discs I'd heard were way out of print.  I suspect the remainders
> lie in wait in Munich.  http://www.ecmrecords.com

In fact, ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL is still in print and (at least in Portland OR)
quite easy to find (two stores have it).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dann-Brown" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Haino, Haino, and more Haino (and a little bit of PainKiller)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 14:38:38 -0400

> the cohen/baron
> trio is, i think, easily the worst thing haino's released that i've heard
(and
> i've got a pretty healthy collection). it's wretched, haino's accoustic
playing
> leaves a guitarist to be desired

Even track 3 left you unmoved?  The half-hour one?  That track, to me, is
one of Haino's most introspective pieces and I loved it throughly.  The rest
of the disc doesn't stand up as much, but I'd recommend the disc to anyone
based on track 3 alone.

Since the discussion lately has been about all the Haino Keiji albums we
don't like - how about the albums of his that we do like?  Personally, I go
for Allegoricial Misunderstanding.  That album never ceases to amaze me.
Oh, and now that I'm thinking about it - is the Pain Killer live album
Rituals out of print?  I've been trying to aquire that  for a little while
without much luck.  (You'd think it would have been included on the COMPLETE
Recordings of Pain Killer...)
Also, does anybody know if there are any recorded documents of Pain Killer
when Buckethead was making guest appereances with the band?

-Dann



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: hatart + anderson/bennink/doran + bley
Date: 21 Aug 2000 14:33:53 EDT


In a message dated 8/21/0 11:28:51 AM, you wrote:

<<
In fact, ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL is still in print and (at least in Portland
OR)
quite easy to find (two stores have it).

>>

Actually, EOTH was out of print while ECM changed distributors and has now
quietly come back into print (along with the rest of Carla's titles), but
many stores (ie Tower) etc don't order a lot of back catalogue on artists
like Carla Bley (as they do not get a lot of jazz radio play).

Does anyone know if the restaging of it from about four years ago was
recorded (legally or otherwise)?

skip h

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: strange bedfellows
Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0700

from towerrecords.com:

Tower Shoppers who bought  Escalator Over The Hill also bought:

1.) The Go-Betweens - Send Me A Lullaby
2.) Dave Alvin - Blackjack David
3.) The Meters - The Very Best Of The Meters
4.) James Brown - Funk Power 1970: A Brand New Thang
5.) Traffic - Feelin' Allright: The Very Best Of Traffic
6.) Neil Young/Crazy Horse - Zuma
7.) Jefferson Starship - At Their Best
8.) Black Sabbath - Mob Rules
9.) Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers
10.) Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: strange bedfellows
Date: 21 Aug 2000 11:57:13 -0700

s~Z wrote:

> from towerrecords.com:
>
> Tower Shoppers who bought  Escalator Over The Hill also bought:
>
> 1.) The Go-Betweens - Send Me A Lullaby
> 2.) Dave Alvin - Blackjack David
> 3.) The Meters - The Very Best Of The Meters
> 4.) James Brown - Funk Power 1970: A Brand New Thang
> 5.) Traffic - Feelin' Allright: The Very Best Of Traffic
> 6.) Neil Young/Crazy Horse - Zuma
> 7.) Jefferson Starship - At Their Best
> 8.) Black Sabbath - Mob Rules
> 9.) Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers
> 10.) Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear

That can't be right... could there have been a band called the 13th
Floor Escalators?

William Crump



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: strange bedfellows
Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:03:49 -0400

>  > from towerrecords.com:
>>
>>  Tower Shoppers who bought  Escalator Over The Hill also bought:
>>
>>  1.) The Go-Betweens - Send Me A Lullaby
>>  2.) Dave Alvin - Blackjack David
>>  3.) The Meters - The Very Best Of The Meters
>>  4.) James Brown - Funk Power 1970: A Brand New Thang
>>  5.) Traffic - Feelin' Allright: The Very Best Of Traffic
>>  6.) Neil Young/Crazy Horse - Zuma
>>  7.) Jefferson Starship - At Their Best
>>  8.) Black Sabbath - Mob Rules
>>  9.) Jefferson Airplane - Volunteers
>>  10.) Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear
>
>That can't be right... could there have been a band called the 13th
>Floor Escalators?

This is the Tower Records website we're talking about...

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Haino, Haino, and more Haino (and a little bit of PainKiller)
Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:32:48 EDT


>Oh, and now that I'm thinking about it - is the Pain Killer live album
>Rituals out of print?  I've been trying to aquire that  for a little while
>without much luck.  (You'd think it would have been included on the COMPLETE
>Recordings of Pain Killer...)

yes, it's out of print. it took me a looong time to track a copy down. (btw -
the box set is the complete studio recordings, which is why rituals isn't on
it, although that other live disc was thrown in...)

>Also, does anybody know if there are any recorded documents of Pain Killer
>when Buckethead was making guest appereances with the band?

there's at least one bootleg floating around from two sets they did at the
knit in 1993, with buckethead on a few tracks...

dave
bill laswell, mick harris, eraldo bernocchi and lori carson discographies :
http://www.geocities.com/slntwtchr

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: haino
Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:54:54 EDT

I've heard that Zorn has tried to get the rights back for the Painkiller
Rituals recording without luck.  I'm sure he'll reissue it when he is able.
Luckily, I found one about a year ago in a New York City shop.  It features
another example of Zorn's infamous cover art.   The live Painkiller bootleg
with Buckethead is pretty cool.  Bucket is introduced late in the set and
provides some sparse support.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: strange bedfellows
Date: 21 Aug 2000 15:22:22 -0500

Why not? I own records by James Brown, the Meters, Neil Young, Black
Sabbath and Marvin Gaye as well as Escalator Over the Hill. I also enjoy
that Jefferson Starship song "Jane" when it's on the radio. I suppose it's
possible someone could like EOTH and the Go-betweens, whoever they are.

Ralph

NP(in my head): 2 Live Crew "Pop that Coochie"

At 11:57 AM 8/21/00 -0700, William Crump wrote:
list deleted
>That can't be right... could there have been a band called the 13th
>Floor Escalators?
>
>William Crump

Robert Pleshar
Head, Serial Orders
University of Chicago Library
1100 E. 57th Street
Chicago, IL 60637

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #13
Date: 21 Aug 2000 17:52:35 -0500

On Dorn's new label which launches in September, Label M.  Believe someone's
already pointed out (here or elsewhere, I can't remember) that this box is
due sometime next year.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

Richard Gardner wrote:

> Following my request for info on the Rahsaan Roland Kirk Complete Atlantic
> box set. I contacted Rhino and got this reply.
>
>  Richard,
>  This is a Joel Dorn project and Rhino has no involvement in it. We
> have no idea what the release date may be. Sorry
>
>
> If Joel Dorn has left 32 Jazz. Where is this coming out?
>
> Richard Gardner
>
> -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Haino, Haino, and more Haino (and a little bit of
Date: 21 Aug 2000 18:20:17 -0400

At 02:38 PM 8/21/00 -0400, Dann-Brown wrote:
>
>Since the discussion lately has been about all the Haino Keiji albums we
>don't like - how about the albums of his that we do like?

My favorite Fushitsusha is the newish two-cd set on Paratactile, I saw it!,
which has a track so long (80-some minutes) that it takes both cds, very
noisy and *very* well recorded.  PSF 15/16 (the second live one) is great
too.  I also like the Nijiumu that was included in Driftworks, and am very
tempted to get the other one by this group.  I have a hard time telling
what instruments are being played, which kind of adds to the mystery of it
all.

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Taylor McLaren <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: The Radio Cover
Date: 21 Aug 2000 20:08:21 -0400


MEEP! "&c." <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks remarkably
>like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle.
Man, that Mike Patton has a nice ass.

In not-so-stupid news, there's a fairly good recording of a Naftule's Dream
concert that has appeared on alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootlegs in the last
day or so. If anybody can tell me how it is that the seven files that make
up the entirety of the show were encoded (WinAmp reports at least three
different bitrates during the course of playback), I'd also be very
interested in hearing a bit about the software and/or glitch involved.

Oh, and while I'm at it... [e-mail] wrote:
>Actually, EOTH was out of print while ECM changed distributors and has now
>quietly come back into print (along with the rest of Carla's titles)
I've actually noticed a fairly impressive glut of used Carla Bley discs in
the stores around here ("here" being just outside of Toronto) in recent
weeks, and was wondering if there is any particular reason for this... is
there any additional material that has been tacked on to these re-issues,
or have the gods of casual musical exploration just decided to smile on me
for a change?

-me



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15
Date: 21 Aug 2000 21:30:35 -0400

Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me.
His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to
explore his other side.  Thanks

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: The Radio Cover
Date: 21 Aug 2000 21:32:35 -0400

Hello,

>In not-so-stupid news, there's a fairly good recording of a Naftule's Dream
>concert that has appeared on alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootlegs in the last
>day or so. If anybody can tell me how it is that the seven files that make
>up the entirety of the show were encoded (WinAmp reports at least three
>different bitrates during the course of playback), I'd also be very
>interested in hearing a bit about the software and/or glitch involved.

Sounds like the files were encoded at variable bit rate. While I can't name a
specefic software, most encoders have an option to encode at VBR. Please
correct me if I am wrong though...

Hope it helps,

Mathieu


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15
Date: 21 Aug 2000 21:32:21 EDT

Get the newly remastered, expanded INTERSTELLAR SPACE!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Teichman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Radio Cover
Date: 22 Aug 2000 00:12:08 -0400

Isn't there a "Man Ray" signature on at least the back cover photo?

At 03:13 AM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks remarkably
>like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle.  Is
>there a connection?
>
>Zach
>
>-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  re: The Radio Cover
Date: 22 Aug 2000 03:06:42 EDT


In a message dated 8/21/0 5:07:07 PM, you wrote:

<<
Oh, and while I'm at it... [e-mail] wrote:
>Actually, EOTH was out of print while ECM changed distributors and has now
>quietly come back into print (along with the rest of Carla's titles)
I've actually noticed a fairly impressive glut of used Carla Bley discs in
the stores around here ("here" being just outside of Toronto) in recent
weeks, and was wondering if there is any particular reason for this... is
there any additional material that has been tacked on to these re-issues,
or have the gods of casual musical exploration just decided to smile on me
for a change?

-me


>>

There doesn't seem to be much bonus tracking on the Carla's, save for the
version of "Soon I Will Be Done With The Troubles Of This World" on DUETS.
As for bonus tracks on EOTH, not likely, given that they really had an uphill
(financial) battle to complete it.

Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
all-Carla program) has any bonus material?

skip h

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 09:42:33 +0200

Hello,

Here are the tracks and players:
-The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)
-Macchie Solari (hatori, saft)
-The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista)
-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
-Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)

So, as you can see, unfortunately Zorn does not play along....

Best wishes,

Stefan Verstraeten


-----Original Message-----
Sent: maandag 21 augustus 2000 11:14


Hello!

Sounds very interesting! Can you give the titles of the new tracks? I can't
seem to find a tracklist anywhere on the net...

Thanks!

ARTHUR_G


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: tv trivia
Date: 21 Aug 2000 09:01:09 +0200


> > We here in Europe also got the Microsoft ad with David Bowie's 'heroes'
(the
> > only way to hear Frippertronics on TV;-])

> To be pedantic for a moment: while it is indeed Fripp's guitar, I'd be
> quite amazed if it were Frippertronics,

Of course... it just had the 'fat' frippertronics sound (which is great,
btw).
Crimson plays 'heroes' as the closing number this tour (Catch them if you
can, they are great - they are just to start the US tour. There are large
improvised sections which are simply incredible)

> And isn't the version that Microsoft used for their ads the Wallflowers
> version?  It seems to me I remember hearing the music in the ad and
> thinking 'cool - bowie' and then realizing it wasn't even his version.

That would surprise me... I was sure that it was the original. Anyhow, the
guitar had that fripp sound. (OK, so it could even turn out that it was a
keyboard ;-)... I worte it was Bowie with fripp on frippertronics- first no
frippertronics, then niether fripp nor bowie... The lack of guitar would be
a logical next step ;-)

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:18:07 +0200

----- Original Message -----

> Here are the tracks and players:
> -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)
> -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft)
> -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista)
> -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
> -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)

Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The
lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from
the '80s...

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:20:21 +0200


> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for
me.
> His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to
> explore his other side.  Thanks

I'd recommend Ascension - a kind of a big band, recently reissued - and
Stellar Regions. Wild music (although I must say that I like miles's
'structured' approach much more).

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Elevator over the hill
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:19:56 +0200

> Does anyone know if the restaging of it from about four years ago was
> recorded (legally or otherwise)?

I know it was filmed... It was brodacsted on 'muzzik', a french TV channell.
A friend of mine recorded it.
To days later, the tape was accidentally re-recorded. So I've never seen it.

(And about the tower records list) somebody wrote:
> Why not? I own records by James Brown, the Meters, Neil Young, Black
> Sabbath and Marvin Gaye as well as Escalator Over the Hill. I also enjoy
> that Jefferson Starship song "Jane" when it's on the radio. I suppose it's
> possible someone could like EOTH and the Go-betweens, whoever they are.

What is REALLY surprising on the list is Sabbath's 'mob rules'. Why that
one?

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 11:25:49 +0200

Hi,

The booklet says that they are recorded at atavar studio & frank booth by
david baker & jamie saft, but on first sight the booklet does not give a
date (unless I am looking not good enough)
However they are listed (in the booklet) seperately from the original tracks
that were recorded during 1984-1985.

So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton
was not recording with zorn.... I think.

Hope this helps....

Stefan Verstraeten

NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: dinsdag 22 augustus 2000 10:18
Cc: 'Arthur Gadney'


----- Original Message -----

> Here are the tracks and players:
> -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)
> -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft)
> -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista)
> -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
> -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)

Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The
lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from
the '80s...

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Elevator over the hill
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:19:56 +0200

> Does anyone know if the restaging of it from about four years ago was
> recorded (legally or otherwise)?

I know it was filmed... It was brodacsted on 'muzzik', a french TV channell.
A friend of mine recorded it.
To days later, the tape was accidentally re-recorded. So I've never seen it.

(And about the tower records list) somebody wrote:
> Why not? I own records by James Brown, the Meters, Neil Young, Black
> Sabbath and Marvin Gaye as well as Escalator Over the Hill. I also enjoy
> that Jefferson Starship song "Jane" when it's on the radio. I suppose it's
> possible someone could like EOTH and the Go-betweens, whoever they are.

What is REALLY surprising on the list is Sabbath's 'mob rules'. Why that
one?

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:18:07 +0200

----- Original Message -----

> Here are the tracks and players:
> -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)
> -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft)
> -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista)
> -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
> -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)

Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The
lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from
the '80s...

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:20:21 +0200


> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for
me.
> His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to
> explore his other side.  Thanks

I'd recommend Ascension - a kind of a big band, recently reissued - and
Stellar Regions. Wild music (although I must say that I like miles's
'structured' approach much more).

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane [2]
Date: 21 Aug 2000 12:02:49 +0200

Try out OM and Meditations. And there are great live recordings from
Japan. (4 CD Set)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15
Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:52:52 +0200

[e-mail] (Zach) said:
> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums
> for me. His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and
> I want to explore his other side.  Thanks

Here are a few of my favorites:

  * "Interstellar Space" has already been mentioned a couple times
  * "Stellar Regions", some of his last recordings
  * "Meditations", a transition record between his classic quartet and
    his new group
  * "Sun Ship", an incredible record
  * "Live in Japan", an impressive 4-cd set.

All are on Impulse and easily available, except maybe "Live in Japan".

--
Julien



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bley/Burton question
Date: 22 Aug 2000 08:10:36 -0400




skip h asked:
   Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
   all-Carla program) has any bonus material?

About half of LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM was tacked on to it. Odd.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:29:19 GMT

Hey,

>-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)

Anybody know which film this song is from?

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 15:41:51 +0200

Hi,

Yes, it is a pity.
It has an extended booklet, but it does not say anything about this new
tracks.....

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

NP Maeror Tri: Meditamentum II

-----Original Message-----
Sent: dinsdag 22 augustus 2000 15:29


Hey,

>-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)

Anybody know which film this song is from?

ARTHUR_G

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: RE: the big gundown - reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 09:56:29 -0400

>-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
>Anybody know which film this song is from?

It's from a 1966 crime film by Carlo Lizzani known in English as "Too Soon to Die."

Lang


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Zach Griffin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Big Gundown Reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:26:59 -0400


--------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton
> was not recording with zorn.... I think.
>

Not only was Patton not recording with Zorn.  Patton was in High School
when The Big Gundown was recorded.

Zach Griffin


--------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton
was not recording with zorn.... I think.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Not only was Patton not recording with Zorn.  Patton was in
High School when The Big Gundown was recorded.
<p>Zach Griffin
<br> </html>

--------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Big Gundown Reissue
Date: 22 Aug 2000 10:58:21 -0400

The TZADIK website says the following about the BIG GUNDOWN REISSUE:

"Newly remastered, this 15th anniversary edition, includes six remarkable
bonus tracks RECORDED ESPECIALLY FOR THIS DEFINITIVE EDITION now available
exclusively from Tzadik".

    So I think there's no doubt that they're newly recorded.

Neil H. Enet
------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Radio Cover
Date: 22 Aug 2000 08:09:13 -0700


On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 03:06:42 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
> all-Carla program) has any bonus material?

It does:


*** - A GENUINE TONG FUNERAL: Gary Burton, Carla Bley

    1967 - RCA (USA), LSP-3988 (LP)
    1967 - RCA (USA), SF 8015 (LP)
    ???? - RCA (Japan), 6204 (LP)
    1968 - RCA Victor (France), RCA-Masters PL 42766 (LP)
    1994 - RCA (Japan), BVCJ-7330 (CD)
    1994 - BMG (France), BM 720 74321192552 (CD)
    1995 - BMG (Germany), 874793 (CD)
    1996 - RCA (Germany), 21192552 (CD)
    1997 - One Way Records (USA), OW 34510 (CD)
    1999 - RCA Victor (USA), 07863 66748-2 (CD)

  Note: the 1999 RCA Victor reissue includes additional tracks from LOFTY FAKE
  ANAGRAM.


    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne
Date: 22 Aug 2000 17:49:23 GMT

>Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks
> >remarkably like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr.
> >Bungle. Is there a connection?

I really doubt it. Patton did perform with Naked City, but like someone else
said the back photo says "Man Ray" and the front is almost surely from
Zorn's archives (or maybe also by Man Ray). I think the only connection is
that Patton wore a bondage mask that looked like that.

About the Big Gundown:

>So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike
> >Patton was not recording with zorn.... I think.

Right, he would have been about 14 years old. Anyway, about the other bonus
tracks: I recognize some of those as cover songs; is the one with Derek
Bailey improv or some kind of "cover" version as well? Either way, this
would seem strange (free improv on a tribute record, or Bailey playing a
song, that is).

>NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records)

How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it. Also, has
anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian
band? If so, how is that one?

Finally I have another brief interview w/ Dr. Chadbourne that's for an
upcoming article, but for anyone who wants to read it (or post it somewhere)
let me know.

Thanks a lot,

WY
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Radio Cover / Coltrane
Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:47:59 -0500 (CDT)



> MEEP! "&c." <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks remarkably
> >like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle.

It is indeed a photo by man ray - from the 1930's, maybe.  the bondage
photo is also by man ray, if i recall correctly.

> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:30:35 -0400
> From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
>
> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me.
> His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to
> explore his other side.  Thanks

Interstellar Space is a classic.
Meditations is also highly recommended.  I prefer 'First Meditations,'
which is just the quartet (the later Meditations, released earlier but
recorded later, has an expanded band, and is more free).
Sombody mentioned Ascension - definitely an intense experience.  This used
to come packaged with Kule Se Mama (sp) in a double disc set; the whole
set was great. I think it was called (of all things) 'The Major Works of
John Coltrane' (as if A Love Supreme or Blue Trane were 'minor'). I think
They subsequently remastered them and released them seperately, but I
don't know. You should probably avoid Om, Live in Seattle, and Live in
Japan, for the time being...

opining,
whit

np - hooker/marclay/renaldo - 'banquet' - nice noise; anything with
marclay is nice noise.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: CDs for sale
Date: 22 Aug 2000 13:09:08 -0600


I'm trying to sell the following:

~Julius Hemphill Sextet "At Dr. King's Table" New World $8
~Marty Erlich's Dark Woods Ensemble "Live Wood"  2CD Music and Arts $14
     (personel, Erlich - winds, Friedlander - cello, Helias - bass)
      Recorded from a european tour in 1996
~Wayne Shorter "Ju Ju" Blue Note $8
     (personel= McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman, Elvin Jones)
~Morton Feldman "Durations I-V, Coptic Light" cpo $8
~Harriet Tubman "I am a man" Knitting factory works $8
     (personel, Brandon Ross - guitar, Melvin Gibbs - bass,
      J.T. Lewis - drums)
~Tetreault, M, Otani, Yoshihide "Four Focuses" Amoebic $10
~Charles Mingus "Let my Children Hear Music" Columbia $8

Prices include shipping within the continental United states.
Overseas shipping will cost a bit more.
Please mail me privately if you are interested.

Thanks,
Matt Wirzbicki


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CDs for sale
Date: 22 Aug 2000 14:18:57 -0400

I'll grab these. if not yet taken:

> ~Marty Erlich's Dark Woods Ensemble "Live Wood"  2CD Music and Arts $14
>      (personel, Erlich - winds, Friedlander - cello, Helias - bass)
>       Recorded from a european tour in 1996
> ~Tetreault, M, Otani, Yoshihide "Four Focuses" Amoebic $10
> ~Charles Mingus "Let my Children Hear Music" Columbia $8


--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: ISO: Weezer tickets
Date: 22 Aug 2000 16:24:17 -0400

Sorry for the shot-in-the-dark-waste-of-bandwidth but....

If anyone has extra tickets for Weezer tomorrow night at Irving Plaza
in NYC please email me a.s.a.p.  Thank you.

Dan Hewins

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: The Radio Cover
Date: 22 Aug 2000 18:03:34 EDT

In a message dated 8/22/00 3:11:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
 all-Carla program) has any bonus material?
  >>
 It does.  About half of the LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM album appears at the end of
it.

-matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sigmund Nonanima <[e-mail]>
Subject: Chasin the Trane
Date: 22 Aug 2000 22:10:02 -0700 (PDT)

Who was asking about Coltrane? Here it is...

Ascension is definitely earth-shattering stuff (not to
all, though-?), but it's a bit of a rite of passage
thing: you've gotta be prepared for approx. 40 minutes
of violent mid-60's New Thing playing (including the
perpetually pissed-off Archie Shepp...well, he used to
be pissed), but it's worth it

No one said a Love Supreme? okay, A Love Supreme. But
there's also the little case of

MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS!!!

get this album (yes, Meditations), because it'll rip
yer head off. I can't say more, because ALL of my
music is in storage right now (Yes, Trane, Zorn,
everything...goddamnit), and if I write too much about
I'll cry, openly, from not being able to listen to it.

[insert little sad face represented by punctuation
here]

best thing to do is befriend someone with a phatty
Coltrane collection and get to borrowin. btw, His late
stuff only increases your appreciation of his early
stuff (of course), and he advanced so quickly and
recorded to often that -given the time- you can
actually HEAR his improvement/metamorphosis (whichever
you wanna term it) from disc to disc. It's a very
enriching experience, and I only lie to people that I
know...

Oh yeah, about Radio--that is Man Ray (at least the
prayer/ass phote on the back).

and Mike Patton has a sweet ass, anyway, and I only
lie about people I know

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 01:43:37 EDT

the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last few years is
one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic). great
tunes and playing by the classic quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for
Jimmy Garrison, and it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne
Date: 23 Aug 2000 08:48:49 +0200

-----Original Message-----

I think the only connection is
that Patton wore a bondage mask that looked like that.

(stefan) are you referring to the picture that can be found in the booklet
of Bob Ostertags' album "Fear No Love" (on the Avant label)? Or did he
actually perform with one of those things?

About the Big Gundown:
Anyway, about the other bonus
tracks: I recognize some of those as cover songs; is the one with Derek
Bailey improv or some kind of "cover" version as well? Either way, this
would seem strange (free improv on a tribute record, or Bailey playing a
song, that is).

(stefan) I don't know the original version, but the track has a feeling of
composed music and not free improv. However, it is not unusual that Derek
Bailey acutally covers a song the way it is written (I know that he also
impovises on songs, like the Mengelberg track "Where is the police"). But
these moments are rare, you are right about that. IMHO the tracks sounds
like a cover, the only problem is that it is played rather noisey (compare
this track to the album Ground Zero plays standards, and you know what I
mean).

>NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records)
How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it.

(stefan) It is a great album. It is a double cd on the leo label. It is
however not a consistent album: it has studio and live tracks, covers and
self-written tracks, played by chadbourne solo - lovens solo and duo
recordings, lo-fi and hi-fi parts. But generally speaking it is a great
album: chadbourne and lovens actually play in a conventional style and the
covers are great (lots of country off course). But the songs that are
written by chadbourne himself are the best... take a typical country tune
and sing a stupid story above it.
BTW, there is a new Lovens/Chadbourne record out on his own label House of
Chadula, but this is on its way to me.

Also, has
anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian
band? If so, how is that one?

(stefan) Same as above: the cd is on its way to me. I ordered quite some
stuff on his own label and post some reviews when they will arrive.

Finally I have another brief interview w/ Dr. Chadbourne that's for an
upcoming article, but for anyone who wants to read it (or post it somewhere)

let me know.

(stefan) as far as i am concerned, Write me in. But why not post it on the
zornlist?

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: new releases on a new label (no zorn content)
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:06:39 +0200

Hello Zornmembers,

I know that there are quite some fans of noise music and musique =
conr=E8te,
and yes, they can meet after all.

There is a new Cd-r label called "A pyrrhic victory" (website
http://www.manifoldrecords.com/pyrrhicvictory.html ) that allready =
released
three amazing albums.

-Hands to: Turn back the sun
This is an cd that was previously (and slightly different) released on =
the
GROSS label (the cassette label of AUBE). Keyman behind this project is =
Jeph
Jerman. A well known underground figure, but it was my first =
introduction.
The album sounds a bit like John Duncan, but more in the lo-fi style. =
The
sound consists of location recordings (valleys, creeks, ...), distant
voices, glitches, ... all well structured together. The general =
impression
is a haunting sphere.

-Jeph Jerman: Beach tree and birds
Solo project of the Hands To foreman (strange if you ask me... a solo
project of a band who consists of only one man.....). Once again
manipultated field recordings... but no more hiss and tape glitches. On =
this
cd, more sound sources are used than on the Hands To cd wich gives a =
more
varied soundspectrum. Based on the tracks I would say that he used the =
sound
of tree, birds, bamboo, stones,... but because of the manipulation, it =
is
hard to say. The housing of the cd is great: a digipack covered with =
old
national geographic maps.

-Augur: All the smallest granules of time
Personally I have never heard before of Steve Brand of Augur, but what =
an
impression he made. The cd is based on two projects that were running
independently, but came together after all. Steve Brand recieved a =
package
of old family photographs and started thinking music with this pictures =
and
emotions. Vince from Manifold records received discarded motion picture
films from long-dead family members, and wanted that some would make a
"soundtrack" for these movies. The result is fabulous: what you hear is =
a
"patchwork" of sounds that are related to the pictures and the movies: =
old
recordings, broken phonographs with abnormal pitch and speed, =
environmental
sounds,...
Also in this case the packaging is superb: the cover features a small =
phot
of his ancestors and the case is a transparent jewel case filled with
negatives from the movies that Vince received.

However note that all these releases are limited (100 copies), so hurry =
up
if you want any of these gems....

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [off topic] Sound cards for notebooks
Date: 23 Aug 2000 09:19:09 +0200

Hi,
sorry to bother you , but I have no better idea where to ask that...
    I bought a second hand laptop computer recently (a toshiba 166 - i'll
have it in two weeks as i bought it abroad) and would like to use it also
for making music. I've been told that the quality of laptop sound outs is
very poor because of the interferences from the HD and power supply. Is that
true? I 'm not loooking for top quality, as the sound will go through a Korg
multi FX, so the accuracy does not interest me that much, i'd just like to
avoid some solid noises that seriously affect the sound. And, anyhow, are
any cards that include SPDIF and MIDI available ? If yes, is there any good
place online to buy such stuff used? How much does such stuff cost?
Reply me personally,
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [off topic] Sound cards for notebooks
Date: 23 Aug 2000 11:14:49 +0200

Sorry for the general reply, but my mail to marcin bounced back....

-----Original Message-----


Hi,
sorry to bother you , but I have no better idea where to ask that...
I bought a second hand laptop computer recently (a toshiba 166 - i'll
have it in two weeks as i bought it abroad) and would like to use it also
for making music. I 'm not loooking for top quality, as the sound will go
through a Korg
multi FX, so the accuracy does not interest me that much, i'd just like to
avoid some solid noises that seriously affect the sound.

(stefan) believe it or not, but I also have a toshiba and also work with a
korg sound module (I have a MS-2000 rack version). So we faced the same
problem.

I've been told that the quality of laptop sound outs is
very poor because of the interferences from the HD and power supply. Is that
true?

(stefan) I am afraid that this is correct. When I used the toshiba with the
hardware it was delivered, it had a lot of problems: too much noise (even
when I used the noise suppressor pedal that I have for my guitar it did not
help very much) and cracks. And when I played high notes, I was immediately
faced with distortion and feedback, even with a low volume on the computer.
The best thing to do is in fact buy a soundcard. That way, 99% of the
problems dissapear, and since we both use is to manipulate sound, no one
will hear the 1% distortion or noise.

 And, anyhow, are
any cards that include SPDIF and MIDI available ? If yes, is there any good
place online to buy such stuff used? How much does such stuff cost?

(stefan) Midi is in fact the best way to play with your laptop. You almost
get a perfect sound this way and the results are far better. the only
problem was that I did not found any cards that supported midi. Normally,
you should have a gate free to build in a midi gateway (in, out and thru),
but expect to pay some money for it. The problem is that there are so many
hardware types depending on what you want and the price you want to pay for
it.

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [off-topic] Useful contacts for an european band
Date: 23 Aug 2000 11:01:06 +0200

Hi,
sorry a post that may interest only few people...
I have recently refformed my band, and we are looking for some place to
play. We are located in Warsaw, Poland. We are mostly inrested in places to
play in Central Europe - Poland ( it 's rathe hard to find a place to play
such stuff in Warsaw), Germany, Holland, Blegium, Tchech Republic, Slovakia,
Hungary... Maybe somebody could help?
We are currently recording our new music with the new lineup (which consist
of  myself on loops, vocals, texts, prerecorded sounds, radio, and FXs,
Mikolaj Hernik on reeds and FX, and Marcin Rychter on piano). After we make
some more recordings i will make some selection available online as MP3s.
That should happen in spetember.
Another query consist in contact with independent record labels that would
be interested in an improvised electroacoustic noisy music. Any ideas?
Sorry for bothering you,
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [off-topic] Useful contacts for an european band
Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:35:31 +0200

-----Original Message-----
Sent: woensdag 23 augustus 2000 11:01


Hi,
We are currently recording our new music with the new lineup (which =
consist
of  myself on loops, vocals, texts, prerecorded sounds, radio, and FXs,
Mikolaj Hernik on reeds and FX, and Marcin Rychter on piano). After we =
make
some more recordings i will make some selection available online as =
MP3s.
That should happen in spetember.
Another query consist in contact with independent record labels that =
would
be interested in an improvised electroacoustic noisy music. Any ideas?

(stefan) Shoot me for being a little bit too proud, but let personally =
plug
an interesting belgian record label that brings your music. It is =
called
Lowlands and is run by Tom (also known as Dj Low who has performed with
David Shea, Jim O'rourke, Kondo, Martin T=E9treault, ...). Their =
website can
be found at: http://www.surf-inn.be/lowlands and their contact address =
is
[e-mail].
Other good belgian labels are sub rosa and kraak.
But if you want a list of good independant labels, go check out the
fantastic website "Labellist" at the address
http://members.tripod.com/labellist/

Hope this helps,

Best wishes,

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sponsoring problems at Hat Hut
Date: 23 Aug 2000 15:14:22 +0200

I've just learnt that the great swiss label Hat Hut will lose its
sponsorship by UBS (a national bank union) at the end of 2000. As a
consequence, if they don't find a new sponsor with an equal interest
open-mindedness and interest in music, they may have to produce some more
commercial-oriented music. Or die.
So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or any
other potential investor ... it may help.
For those who are not familiar with the label, it started in 1975 and has
produced records by (among others): Cecil Taylor, Joe Maneri, Ellery
Eskelin, Matthew Shipp, Guillermo Gregorio, ICP Orchestra, Dave Douglas,
Ray Anderson, John Zorn (News and More News for Lulu), Joe McPhee, Myra
Melford, Paul Dunmall, Misha Mengelberg, Mat Maneri, Franz Koglmann, Simon
Nabatov, Harace Tapscott, Clusone 3, Christy Doran, Ran Blake, Taku
Sugimoto, Loren MazzaCane Connors, Anthony Braxton, Morton Feldman, Jimmi
Giuffre, Urs Leimgruber... and the list goes could go on forever...

The best contemporary jazz label in the world ? Hope it won't disappear...

Form more details, visit their website at: http://www.hathut.com


Pascal.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 09:44:56 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:

> the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last few years is
> one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic). great
> tunes and playing by the classic quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for
> Jimmy Garrison, and it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox.

Seconded... a gorgeous, gorgeous record, although far more "inside" than most
of what's being mentioned in this thread.  This is pretty staight stuff from
the nascent "classic" quartet, prior to Garrison's arrival.  I think
it's the
first time Trane used multiphonics on record, as well.

Another good marker of just how far Trane was beginning to stray from his
former colleagues can be heard on the magnificent live recordings of the Miles
Davis Quintet captured live in Stockholm in 1960.  This has been
available for
quite some time as a two CD set on Dragon (as well as half of a four CD set,
the other half from months later and including Sonny Stitt replacing Trane).
Agreed that this is not a starting point but instead recommended for the
intermediate Coltrane fan, but this set is just so enlightening.  The material
is mostly from the '50s recordings of the first great Davis quintet like 'Kind
of Blue,' but this is a far different Trane, one already stretching boundaries
and playing extended, furiously roiling solos positively seething with energy
(and pissing off Davis in the process).  The rest of this fabulous band sounds
rather timid by contrast, as Trane's ascension to come is already in evidence
at some points here.  The two CD version (and probably the four CD
version as
well) also includes a short but hysterical interview with Trane by some
well-meaning Swedish radio journalists.  If memory serves, they tell a quietly
bemused Trane that he is playing "dangerous" music...

Regarding the late stuff, I'm in agreement that much of this is worth hearing
repeatedly, especially the gorgeous 'Live at the Village Vanguard Again'
- a
young David S. Ware was in the audience.  But IMHO, you absolutely must hear
the very posthumously released 'Stellar Regions.'  This came at the very
end of
Trane's career, in February 1967 (and was only rediscovered by wife
Alice and
son Ravi in 1994).  One track was released on 'Expression,' the rest sat
in a
box for almost three decades.  The truly astonishing thing about this
music is
that it begins to point the way towards yet another development in Trane's
art... it manages to capture the fiery energy of those epic-length explorations
by the late group, yet crystallizes it into quite compact pieces that
are far
more easily assimilated.  Beautiful playing from all concerned (Trane, Alice,
Garrison and Rashied Ali).  Who knows what might have followed?

Check out the following review from the Phoenix New Times if you want to feel
your blood boil at the way Trane's late period (not to mention a large
chunk of
Ornette's career) is STILL being maligned by ill-informed, wrongheaded
reviewers with an agenda and column space to fill (this review dates
from LAST
WEEK, mind you...):
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2000-08-17/music3.html

Finally, although its structures are admittedly fairly simplistic and it's
almost embarassingly confessional in its heart-on-sleeve spiritualism,
'A Love
Supreme' is for my money one of the signal achievements in all of music.
 Few
albums have ever come more nakedly from the heart and soul of any musician.

Think I'll be on a Trane trip today...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - John Coltrane, "One Up, One Down," 'Dear Old Stockholm'
(Impulse!/GRP) -
the (first) classic quartet circa '65, with Roy Haynes subbing for Elvin Jones

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chadbourne
Date: 23 Aug 2000 06:49:38 -0700


> From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne

>
> >NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records)
> How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it.

This is a typical Chadbourne release -- which to me is always a bit disappointing.  it is very hit and miss, there's some good stuff, and quite a bit of bad.  And the sound on some of it is pretty poor.  It probably would have made a really good single disc, but stretching it over 2 wasn't necessary.  And Loven's doesn't come through the way I was hoping.

> Also, has anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of
>Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian
> band? If so, how is that one?

I like this one a lot. Loud, rockish, and fun.

I'd also like to put in a plug for a 'radio CD release party' for a new Chadbourne album next week. It is a Chadbourne/Vertrek Ensemble disc recorded last spring.  Vertrek are coming into the studio with me, we'll be playing the disc, they're bringing instruments and will be playing, and we're hoping to get Chadbourne on the phone (which may be a problem, because he is in Sicily that night).  Anyway, the station is broadcast over the web in quicktime, found at www.cjsr.com. Next Thursday, September 1 at 8pm Mountain time (10 eastern, 11 pacific, anyone else figure it out for yourself).

Also, if anyone wants the disc before the usual distributors get it, contact me and I'll pass the message on.

Dan


_______________________________________________________________________

Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now!
http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html

_______________________________________________________________________


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:09:04 -0400

>Check out the following review from the Phoenix New Times if

Pretty funny.  "Would you rather hear a jackhammer or a car crash?"  Of course the correct answer is "Both, please."  (At least this guy gave the albums plenty of space & description, enough that if I was still a teenager who'd never even heard of Coltrane or Coleman I'd immediately rush out and buy the albums.)

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:18:59 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:

> (At least this guy gave the albums plenty of space & description, enough that if I was still a teenager who'd never even heard of Coltrane or Coleman I'd immediately rush out and buy the albums.)

I hadn't thought of that.  You're quite correct.

Steve
[e-mail]
NP - Miles Davis & John Coltrane, "On Green Dolphin Street," 'Live in Stockholm 1960' (Dragon)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: PROMO: Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium
Date: 23 Aug 2000 11:33:28 EDT

sorry for the promotional intrusion, and further apologies if you receive=20
more than one copy of this:

I'm proud to announce the release of the latest CD on my label:

Dean Roberts/Werner Dafeldecker-Aluminium (Erstwhile 009)

Dean Roberts and Werner Dafeldecker seem unlikely collaborators at first=20
glance.

Roberts, who originally hails from New Zealand, began his career delving int=
o=20
guitar drones and feedback, both in the trio Thela and on his own, under the=
=20
name White Winged Moth. He founded the label Formacentric Disk in order to=20
document a wider range of his work, and released four projects in two years.=
=20
In 1998, he began working with the influential German label Mille Plateaux,=20
who put out his much acclaimed All Cracked Medias, and earlier this year, An=
d=20
the Black Moths Play the Grand Cinema, on their more experimental sublabel=20
Ritornell.=20

Dafeldecker, a lifelong resident of Vienna, is probably best known for being=
=20
an integral member of the improv supergroup Polwechsel, as well as for=20
founding and running the influential label Durian. He's composed numerous=20
pieces for various classical ensembles, and also appears on two recent=20
notable CDs, Printer (Durian), and Martin Siewert's Komfort 2000 (Charhizma)=
.=20
Originally primarily a bassist, Dafeldecker has been working more with guita=
r=20
and electronics recently, both of which he plays to great effect on Aluminiu=
m.

Aluminium was recorded during a marathon studio session in Vienna in April,=20
and was brilliantly mastered by Tim Barnes. Both musicians play guitar and=20
electronics, along with occasional percussion on a hi-hat placed between=20
them. On the first track, Dafeldecker's sine wave electronics intersect with=
=20
Roberts' rough guitar textures, priming the listener's aural palette for the=
=20
marathon track which follows. This half hour long piece is a atmospheric=20
exploration fusing the legacy of AMM with the spirit of rock and roll.

"Roberts and Dafeldecker avoid flamboyant gestures as emphatically as a trus=
t=20
fund anarchist dodges the neighborhood Starbucks. They prefer to gradually=20
generate magnetic tension by parsimoniously deploying contrasting squeals,=20
scrapes, whines, and bell-like tolls like small objects on a vast, hushed=20
soundfield. The two men evoke a space where humans are heard but not seen,=20
crafting visions of a humming metalworks with nary a human in sight."--Bill=20
Meyer

personnel:

Dean Roberts-guitar, electronics and percussion=20
Werner Dafeldecker-guitar, electronics and percussion

track listing:

1. Rock and Roll Part 4-10:34
2. Rock and Roll Part 5-30:03

more info available at the following web sites, or contact Erstwhile Records=
=20
at [e-mail]:

http://www.erstwhilerecords.com
http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mdafel.html
http://www.angelfire.com/music/formacentric/roberts.html
http://www.durian.at

all Erstwhile CDs can be purchased from numerous worldwide distributors, all=
=20
of which are listed on my web site. also, all Erstwhile releases can be=20
purchased via mail order (prices are for single CDs):=20

$13 US each postpaid within the United States=20
$14 US each postpaid to Canada=20
$16 US each postpaid overseas=20

all payments must be made in US funds. cash and money orders shipped=20
immediately. mail cash at your own risk. shipments paid for with checks held=
=20
until they clear. please send your order to:

Erstwhile Records
189 Christopher Columbus Dr.
Apt. #4
Jersey City, NJ 07302


future releases from Erstwhile will include:

010: G=FCnter M=FCller/L=EA Quan Ninh-The Liquid Vowel
011: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack
012: Thomas Lehn/Marcus Schmickler-Bart
013: Axel D=F6rner/Kevin Drumm
014: TV Pow/Stilluppsteypa
015: Phil Durrant/Thomas Lehn/Radu Malfatti

also available now:

001-VHF-Extracts
002-Haunted House-Up In Flames
003-Earl Howard/Denman Maroney-Fire Song
004-2-Thomas Lehn/Gerry Hemingway-Tom & Gerry (double CD)
005-Keith Rowe/G=FCnter M=FCller/Taku Sugimoto-The World Turned Upside Down
006-Kevin Drumm/Martin T=E9treault-Particles and Smears
007-John Butcher/Phil Durrant-Requests and Antisongs
008-Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee

thanks for reading.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 15:49:40 GMT

That was a nicely articulated defense of Coltrane's later period.  I have to
agree that Stellar Regions and A Love Supreme were phenomenal musical
moments, though for me Interstellar Space was the singular instance.  One
can always rest easy when would-be critics "profane" the "sacred" by
reducing an extraordinary articulation to such adjectives as "weird" or
"strange" or by implicitly endorsing the "use-value" of music as
"soundtracks for bedding the bouffanted babes" or a "perfect mix of library
jazz and nookie music."  Must have just graduated.  On the other hand,
Pharoah Sanders gets onomatopoeia: "tenorman Sanders, whose raspy yelps
sounded like a throat being cleared."  This of course is the prevailing
common sense and it is also the reason that golddiggers have managed to lap
up cheap second hand throwaways at the local stores.  I owe a lot to common
sense, as well as to the fact that most people will never be able to grow
the ears to hear what they're dispensing with.  The "intimidating and
vulnerable" Coltrane, who manages to "put off" by being both at once, as
though their were rule preventing it, can never be read by such people as
anything other than imbued with "spiritual angst," always in the negative
rather than the affirmative.  So is anyone infuriating listeners today in
the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this
measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even
possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is
always expected?  If so, then where are these points of "anguish?"
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 09:00:55 -0700


On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:44:56 -0500  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Finally, although its structures are admittedly fairly simplistic and it's
> almost embarassingly confessional in its heart-on-sleeve spiritualism,
> 'A Love Supreme' is for my money one of the signal achievements in all of
> music. Few albums have ever come more nakedly from the heart and soul of
> any musician.

Don't feel ashamed :-). I can tell you that you are not the only one!!!

A record that was not mentioned and that I think makes the transition from
"classic" Coltrane to "modern" Coltrane, is the amazing OLE. This is
maybe the first Coltrane record where you detect that he is more than a
fantastic and inspired player, but that he is also on something else.
Could it be one of his first "modal" record (question for the specialist)?

    Patrice (almost embarrassed to acknowledge that he discovered "A Love
        Supreme" with McLaughlin/Santana's version and was very
        disappointed, a few months later, to listen to the original
        (that I did not like at first); even more embarrassed to
        acknowledge that I recently listened to their version again
        (after 20 years!) and that I still like it).


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:10:09 EDT


In a message dated 8/23/00 12:02:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< > Finally, although its structures are admittedly fairly simplistic and
it's
> almost embarassingly confessional in its heart-on-sleeve spiritualism,
> 'A Love Supreme' is for my money one of the signal achievements in all of
> music. Few albums have ever come more nakedly from the heart and soul of
> any musician.

Don't feel ashamed :-). I can tell you that you are not the only one!!! >>

yeah, I still love this record, no matter how many times I play it. I still
recommend this and Miles' Kind Of Blue for people who haven't heard any jazz
and are interested in beginning to explore the genre.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:26:41 EDT

Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]> wrote:

<snip> >I've just learnt that the great swiss label Hat Hut will lose its
>sponsorship by UBS (a national bank union) at the end of 2000. As a
>consequence, if they don't find a new sponsor with an equal interest
>open-mindedness and interest in music, they may have to produce some more
>commercial-oriented music. Or die.
>So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or
>any other potential investor ... it may help. <snip>

With all due respect to Hat Hut, who I agree *are* a great label, I must say
"Welcome to the real world".

I wish that we had had a millionaire, national bank union, or anyone else to
help *us* with our releases. Even for a short period of time. We've never
gotten a penny in sponsorship money or anything else since the beginning.

I ran my label at a personal loss for over 13 years, & only in the last 2
years or so has it started to begin to sorta break even. That's SORTA, as in
not really, but better than before, even if NOT at a profit.

And I certainly hope that this topic doesn't degenerate into a mindless
"yeah, but you suck, & they are great" thread. That's not my point. Obviously.

My point is that there's lots of great labels in a wide variety of fields
that don't get even a crumb in terms of "arts money". It might be nice is
some of that arts money got spread around a little more, imo. So, while I
would hate to see Hat Hut go down, I certainly won't be crying for them if
they can't come up with another millionaire to keep them afloat.

BTW, we generally release avant composed rock, with forrays into other music,
such as electronics, free jazz, & etc. If you're interested in seeing what we
do:
http://www.cuneiformrecords.com

Steve/
Cuneiform

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bob Kowalski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Ribot on] jc's new album
Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:24:46 -0400

Anyone have impressions to share on Ribot's performance on (one of the =
two) new James Carter disc(s)?  Is he on the whole album?  I read a little =
about both recent Carter discs and am intrigued with the Django  quasi-trib=
ute, but not sure about James Carter...

happy listening

Bob


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 18:46:23 +0200


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Mittwoch, 23. August 2000 18:26


> Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or
> >any other potential investor ... it may help. <snip>
>
> With all due respect to Hat Hut, who I agree *are* a great label, I must
say
> "Welcome to the real world".
>
> My point is that there's lots of great labels in a wide variety of fields
> that don't get even a crumb in terms of "arts money". It might be nice is
> some of that arts money got spread around a little more, imo.

well, I see it like this

swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor
    but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an
exception
    and I never understood why they did it....

sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as
well that hat hut
was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something
really crappy




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:16:52 -0700


On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:46:23 +0200  "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote:
>
> swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor
>     but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an
> exception
>     and I never understood why they did it....
>
> sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as
> well that hat hut
> was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something
> really crappy

But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if
I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At least
he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a serious
man like Werner asks to money that might be for something worthwhile."

    Patrice (guessing).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 19:34:45 +0200

----- Original Message -----
Just a while ago, Patrice <[e-mail]> wrote:


> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:46:23 +0200  "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote:
> >
> > swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor
> >     but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an
> >   exception and I never understood why they did it....
>
> But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if
> I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At
least
> he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a serious
> man like Werner asks to money that might be for something worthwhile."

I don't know... how serious is someone who gives up a top job in the
chemical industry to produce jazz records? ;-)

Stephane


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:34:46 -0700

>> sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was =
just as well that hat hut was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money =
will now go to something really crappy

> But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if =
I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At =
least he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have thought: "If a =
serious man like Werner asks to money that might be for something =
worthwhile."  Patrice (guessing).

This is a good example of money making more money! Quite the (un)funny =
paradox... God forbid banks loaning money to people who actually need it!

-Miko


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:38:07 -0700


On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:34:45 +0200  "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote:
>
> I don't know... how serious is someone who gives up a top job in the
> chemical industry to produce jazz records? ;-)

Sure, but it is easier for a bank to loan money to somebody who does not
need it :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 10:40:59 -0700


On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:34:46 -0700  "Mike Biffle" wrote:
>
> >> sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as well that hat hut was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something really crappy
>
> > But Werner Uhlinger (spelling?), the owner of Hat Hut, is a rich man, if I remember well. This means that he also has powerful connections. At least he applied from sponsorship, the banks might have
thought: "If a serious man like Werner asks to money that might be for something worthwhile."  Patrice (guessing).
>
> This is a good example of money making more money! Quite the (un)funny
> paradox... God forbid banks loaning money to people who actually need it!

I doubt that this a good example (unless you have a twisted sense of what
good means). Putting money in producing records is not something people
do to make more money... At least not in the genres that Hat Hut focuses
on.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 19:46:43 +0200

    I must admit that my first post on the topic was clumsy, and maybe even
worse if you consider it might be read by someone like Steve@cuneiform who
spends a lot of energy in running an independant label with high artistic
standards and without the help of any sponsor. Sorry for that, Steve.
Anyway, whatever the situation may be for the other labels, the fact that
Hat Hut will lose its sponsorship from UBS is bad news. Because it means
that more commercial considerations will be involved in the label's
activities. Unavoidably at the detriment of purely artistic considerations.
Bad news for the label, but also bad news for the musicians and composers.
And bad news for the listener.
Of course, I suppose everybody on the list would like to see "arts money
spread around more". To more record labels, more musicians, more clubs and
venues. But as Stephane said, the money that used to go from UBS to Hat Hut
will probably go to "to something really crappy". That's why I still think
this is still sad news whatever the "real world" may be like.

Pascal



At 18:46 23/08/00 +0200, you wrote:
>
>> Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> >So if any of you know any millionaire, another national bank union, or
>> >any other potential investor ... it may help. <snip>
>>
>> Steve@cuneiform:
>>
>>With all due respect to Hat Hut, who I agree *are* a great label, I must
>say
>> "Welcome to the real world".
>>
>> My point is that there's lots of great labels in a wide variety of fields
>> that don't get even a crumb in terms of "arts money". It might be nice is
>> some of that arts money got spread around a little more, imo.
>
>Stephane Vuilleumier
>well, I see it like this
>
>swiss banks have always been desperate to sponsor
>    but they sponsor an enormous lot of mainstream crap. hat hut was an
>exception
>    and I never understood why they did it....
>
>sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was just as
>well that hat hut
>was getting it. I bet you that the hat hut money will now go to something
>really crappy


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 14:54:06 -0400

>sponsoring IS the real world - but not for music margins. so it was

Maybe in Europe but not the US where really only the music margins are sponsored, usually classical labels like New World or CRI and possibly others like Folkways (now owned by Smithsonian, ie the US Government or the American people take your pick) counts.

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 14:01:45 CDT

>Of course, I suppose everybody on the list would like to see "arts money
>spread around more". To more record labels, more musicians, more clubs and
>venues. But as Stephane said, the money that used to go from UBS to Hat Hut
>will probably go to "to something really crappy". That's why I still think
>this is still sad news whatever the "real world" may be like.
>
>Pascal

One refreshing thing about "the arts" is their uselessness.  In the recent
thread about persistent fear and loathing of Coltrane's late music, Bill
Ashline makes passing reference to "common sense" identifications of a
music's (art's, etc) worth with its "use value": that is, to what further
end can this object/experience be put?  And how
concrete/immediate/sensual/profitable is that further end?  (This gives new
meaning to the phrase "instrumental music".  Ha!)  A possible danger in our
seeking refuge in the useless is that we bend toward an "art pour l'art"
view of creative productions.  (Well, not on the Zorn-list; but surely we
know arts establishments which thrive or die on the level of grant money
they receive.)  Patronage is, quite simply I believe, the very history of
the arts.  It's woven into the fibers of human creation, at the very least
in the West.  So everything that's heretofore defined our aesthetic and the
structures within which we operate (or which we push against, defining
ourselves negatively)---as auditors or as performer/producers---is
historically saturated with dependency.

DIY (do it youself!) is refreshing to me for that reason: I don't care for
most of the teenage (mentality) punk bands I hear, and I don't have any love
for vinyl exotica, 7" records, or that kind of thing (commodity fetishism,
all of it  ;)---but the gauntlet is thrown down in the face of  1.) big
capital and cynical [if I'd spelled it 'Cynical', I'd have been referring to
a healthy attitude that permeates the (?) counterculture] marketing
strategy; and, more significantly, 2.) the fragility of patronage, which is
economic effeminacy.  The kind of aggressive rigor and world-wise Phillip
Marlowe marketing savvy that an outsider-hostile climate (like, perhaps, the
USA) can provide is crucial to the persistence of the arts.  Who woulda
thought that I'd ever extol the virtues of US Capital?  Go team!

I will be sad if/when HatArt folds, or dilutes its content; however, I will
be sadder at the thought that labels like HatArt fall into the complacency
of a dependence on patronage in order to persist.  That's only thrown into
relief when the crisis arrives, i.e. the money STOPS.  As for the patronage
itself: if I thought I could resist the insinuation of moneyed interests
into the operations of my (hypothetical) label, I would probably not refuse
the money, unless I did so on principle.  I'm not trying to propose some
kind of "gob on the passing limo" fundamentalism.

-----s

P.S. Interesting that HatArt, to my knowledge, would have had at least
marginally DIY beginnings: I own several of the original Joe McPhee LPs
which initiated the label, and the packaging is rather cheap-looking, as is
the vinyl (lightweight).  I understand some of the great early McPhee
records (TENOR, at least) were made on Uehlinger's portable tape deck, and
it sure sounds like it.  Am I bad fooled?

P.P.S. On the old Free Music Production site, there was an (unoffical?)
slogan: "Working against capitalism from within capitalism."    Immanence!
Is there any other way to go?

NP: INDEPENDENCE DAY, the movie  (kidding!  kidding!)

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 14:33:01 CDT

>From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
>Another good marker of just how far Trane was beginning to stray from his
>former colleagues can be heard on the magnificent live recordings of the
>Miles
>Davis Quintet captured live in Stockholm in 1960.  This has been
>available for
>quite some time as a two CD set on Dragon (as well as half of a four CD
>set,
>the other half from months later and including Sonny Stitt replacing
>Trane).

I'm very interested in the 2CD set on Dragon, but I haven't been able to
find it, either on Dragon's website, or from any number of online stores.
The quadruple box is still available.  Can the double-disc still be found?

----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rimas <[e-mail]>
Subject: berlin recommendations ?
Date: 23 Aug 2000 12:54:17 -0700


hope noone minds the non-zorn related query but I'm going to be in
Berlin next week and since there seem to be a decent number of
europe-based people on this list I thought I'd ask for recommendations
about any shows to catch or righteous venues/clubs (or anything else
kinda off the beaten path) to check out while i'm there.

thanks,

-rimas

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:42:50 EDT


In a message dated 8/23/00 11:50:43 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< So is anyone infuriating listeners today in
the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this
measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even
possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is
always expected?  If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >>

maybe I'm not understanding your question correctly, but I think it's safe to
say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones working
with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time avant
improv fans.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: sine wavers
Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:48:42 -0400

>but I think it's safe to say that the new wave of electronics >improvisers, especially the ones working with sine waves, have

I've run across several references to this but not much detail.  Who are some of these people?  Do you mean literal sine waves (which are pretty dull) or is that more a shorthand for something else?  Are they making interference/modulation patterns?  And in what way is this improvised?

Lost in the stars, Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: more sponsorship
Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:57:53 EDT

Hi Pascal,

>   I must admit that my first post on the topic was clumsy, and maybe even
>worse if you consider it might be read by someone like Steve@cuneiform
>who
>spends a lot of energy in running an independant label with high artistic
>standards and without the help of any sponsor. Sorry for that, Steve.

No problem. Thank you for your nice comments about this.
I was not insulted by your "clumsy" posting at all - but reading it *did*
shock me out of my usual lurker mode and made me feel that I *had* to respond.

So, what do you [& others] imagine are kind of things will UBS sponsor that
are so "really crappy"? Normally "arts" money goes for somewhat "highbrow"
things - at least in the USA. I think that the fact that I do "rock bands" is
one reason why there would not generally be money forthcoming for a label
like Cuneiform, even though my rock bands have more to do with Stravinsky
than Bruce Springsteen.  I mean, do they give money to the Swiss version of
Madonna, N'Sync & Brittney? I guess what I'm trying to say is that though I
find that a lot of the stuff that gets arts money in the USA [ballet
companies, symphonies, "classical" record labels] are kinda dull to me
personally, I would say that they are all "worthy", & I would not
characterize any of them as "crappy"....

Steve/
Cuneiform

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: two jcs -- trane and carter plus ribot
Date: 23 Aug 2000 13:43:15 -0700

1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP
set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is
that it's somewhat rare.

2. New James Carter. Layin the Cut could hardly have a more promising
lineup -- Ribot, Tacuma, Cal Weston, and a guitarist from Shannon
Jackson (forget his name). Album is a hodgepodge jam -- Carter said he
thought the session was going to be their first rehearsal. Not much
Ribot soloing -- if you buy it for Ribot, you're forewarned. Mix is
inconsistent. Amazing Atlantic would throw an album together like this
and then spend multiples of the production cost for advertising....
"Gypsy," the Django tribute, is quite the opposite. Meticulously worked
out arrangements -- classical and steel string acoustic guitars are
very nice, altho i forget the players (not ribot). REgina Carter on
violin, viola. Perhaps our pal Joey on drums?.... Very pleasant outing.

3. To Steve at Cuneiform: You rock, man. Glad to hear you're finally
starting to break even and am grateful for cats like you helping to get
the music out there. If my poor memory isn't failing me again, I have
you to thank for Curlew's tunes hanging out around my pad....

Martin

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:21:00 -0400

After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am interested in
figuring out a little more detail about the equipment/resources used in this
kind of music.

When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the
majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections?  What
kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds?
There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav
(for MAC and PC).

Any info or links appreciated...

Jim


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:28:22 EDT


In a message dated 8/23/00 5:14:22 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the

majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections?  What

kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds?

There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav

(for MAC and PC). >>

I'm not an expert on the technical end of things, but I believe a lot of the
musicians use Max and/or Lisa. there's a link for Max among some other
possibly relevant links on the Steim website: http://www.steim.nl/links.html.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: recommendations, please
Date: 23 Aug 2000 18:00:33 -0400

Hello list,

    Ok, in my local record store I've seen:

DAVE DOUGLAS:    soul on soul
DAVE DOUGLAS:    leap of faith
JOEY BARON:    we'll soon find out

    Now, I'll probably get all of them, but my extremely limited student
spending money can only let me buy one CD this week.  Maybe somebody will
buy them so I need to know which one would you pick from these albums.

Thanks...

Neil H. Enet
------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 22:04:55 GMT




>From: [e-mail]

>In a message dated 8/23/00 11:50:43 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< So is anyone infuriating listeners today in
>the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this
>measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even
>possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is
>always expected?  If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >>
>
>maybe I'm not understanding your question correctly, but I think it's safe
>to
>say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones
>working
>with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time
>avant
>improv fans.

Ah yes, sine waves, where the "anguish" can be physical as well figurative.
A "non-instrumental" music, to steal a relevant "Handleyism" that floated by
moments ago.  And yes, you most certainly understood the question.  Besides
Sachiko M, Ikeda, and some of Stefan's beloved noise innovators, who are the
other sine wave pioneers?  When I listen to sine waves, the whole question
of aural space and sources gets problematized.  I can never tell if the
sound is emanating from the book shelves or the speaker since the sound
bounces off and circulates around all objects in the room.  There is
something monaural about sine waves that starts to seriously undermine the
concept of music entirely, a spare minimalism that can never really have the
same political resonance as that which animated the music of Coltrane and
Coleman, music that really was a reflection of that particular period.  On
the other hand, it is certainly true that sine wave music is far more
radical conceptually, even if the political and social climate in which it
develops is much less so.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:06:30 -0600

>After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am
>interested in figuring out a little more detail about the
>equipment/resources used in this kind of music.

I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very frequently
in real time computer music.  But I also know next to nothing about the
technical end of things.

Matt Wirzbicki

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 23 Aug 2000 18:16:07 EDT


In a message dated 8/23/00 6:08:58 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very
frequently

in real time computer music.  But I also know next to nothing about the

technical end of things. >>

yeah, that's right. all of the laptop musicians in MIMEO (Fennesz, Pita,
Marcus Schmickler, Kaffe Matthews) were running this during the 24 hour show.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: That's The Way I Feel Now to be reissued
Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:17:21 -0500 (CDT)


Howdy,

A&M / Verve Music Group will be reissuing _That's The way I Feel Now: A
Tribute To Thelonius Monk_ sometime in the near future as a 2-CD set.  The
original CD issue unfortunately omitted Zorn's take on "Shuffle Boil" that
was on the original vinyl.

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
----------
One Nation



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Douglas Tapia <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: two jcs -- trane and carter plus ribot
Date: 23 Aug 2000 16:27:12 -0600

>3. To Steve at Cuneiform: You rock, man. Glad to hear you're finally
>starting to break even and am grateful for cats like you helping to get
>the music out there. If my poor memory isn't failing me again, I have
>you to thank for Curlew's tunes hanging out around my pad....

I'll second this.  Cuneiform is also responsible for at least the most
recent Thinking Plague CD, and DAVE KERMAN/5 UU'S-Purgatories, a truly
GREAT release.  I know first hand how hard it is financially to make this
kind of music, and it must be even worse to run a label specializing in
this music.  I'm truly greatful that there are champions of creative art
who invest both their time and money in a genere whos only reward is the
music produced.  Thank you Steve, and keep up the good work.  Certainally
there are many here who support your label and appriciate your efforts.

Doug

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: That's The Way I Feel Now to be reissued
Date: 23 Aug 2000 15:29:07 -0700


On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:17:21 -0500 (CDT)  Paul Audino wrote:
>
> A&M / Verve Music Group will be reissuing _That's The way I Feel Now: A
> Tribute To Thelonius Monk_ sometime in the near future as a 2-CD set.  The
> original CD issue unfortunately omitted Zorn's take on "Shuffle Boil" that
> was on the original vinyl.

Wow! That's a fantastic news. "Shuffle Boil" is one of the most amazing cover
Zorn ever did.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 23 Aug 2000 20:06:09 -0500

"Kristopher S. Handley" wrote:

> >From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
> >Another good marker of just how far Trane was beginning to stray from his
> >former colleagues can be heard on the magnificent live recordings of the
> >Miles
> >Davis Quintet captured live in Stockholm in 1960.  This has been
> >available for
> >quite some time as a two CD set on Dragon (as well as half of a four CD
> >set,
> >the other half from months later and including Sonny Stitt replacing
> >Trane).
>
> I'm very interested in the 2CD set on Dragon, but I haven't been able to
> find it, either on Dragon's website, or from any number of online stores.
> The quadruple box is still available.  Can the double-disc still be found?

Hmmmm.  A cursory check of Cadence only lists the four-CD version on Dragon
as well.  And looking again at my two-CD version, it was actually produced by
a French company called AVI, under license from Dragon.  Maybe Dragon
licensed its stuff out during the early CD years, and when they started
making their own CDs they decided to only offer the four-CD?

I've got a four-CD set from a French label of other dates from the same tour
on another label, Jazz 1, and they, too, only offer the pairing of 2 discs of
Coltrane and 2 discs of Stitt.  Sorry to whet the appetite for something more
than you actually wanted...  For what it's worth, while considerably more
conservative, the Stitt material is also very fine, if you're a big fan of
this period of Davis.

Apologies,
Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Marty Ehrlich, "The Traveller's Tale," 'The Traveller's Tale' (Enja)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Livingston <[e-mail]>
Subject: [off topic] Sound cards for notebooks
Date: 23 Aug 2000 17:43:22 -0700

Anyone interested in such topics should check out:


www.harmony-central.com/MIDI

www.harmony-central.com/Computer

and

www.digigram.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Armikhinian
Date: 23 Aug 2000 21:43:23 -0400

Okay, this is sorta off the wall, but does anyone have
any Charles Armikhinian they can loan me, preferable on MP3?  In fact,
does anyone have a copy of 10+2=12 (the actual record,
or a nice CD or MP3 dub) I could trade for?  I'd sure appreciate it!

Thanks,
peter




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Soft Machine rec's requested
Date: 23 Aug 2000 22:46:54 -0400

> I've only the faintest memories of hearing one of the Soft Machine albums,
> years ago; it knocked me out, and when I came to, I didn't bother getting
> any of their records!  Recommendations, please, as to your favorite picks
> among the "numbered" albums.

Don't know how well this has been covered, but my ABSOLUTE favorite Soft
Machine (and perhaps album) ever, is Volume Two.  You must know though, that
I am coming from a prog background on this, and not a free-jazz background.
If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the
Muffins, doing similar stuff.  I believe they influenced SM quite a bit, but
I could be mistaken.

Peter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recommendations, please
Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:02:01 +1000

> DAVE DOUGLAS: soul on soul
> DAVE DOUGLAS: leap of faith
> JOEY BARON: we'll soon find out

Probably none would be disappointing... the one I've heard most of is Soul
On Soul, and it's pretty amazing. I guess it depends what you're after: that
would be my pick if you want interesting larger group arrangements, with
great players like Caine and Baron. Leap Of Faith is a bit more quirky and
free, and We'll Soon Find Out is quite laid back as you might expect.

I just checked out Leap Of Faith at cdnow... considering the (relatively)
recent thread regarding Ben Perowsky's drumming, they give him a pretty
amusing credit - Ben Perowsky: Drums (Snare)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: stravinsky - original jacket collection
Date: 24 Aug 2000 00:17:56 -0400

Just saw a listing for this 9-disc set.  Is it a more reasonable selection
as opposed to the 22-disc complete set (that's probably more Stravinsky
that I need)?  Anything important missing other than "The Rake's Progress"
and the oratorios?

Lang

Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sh" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tribal Tech Shows
Date: 24 Aug 2000 00:33:45 -0300

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C00D62.F696ADC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings, folks.  I've been searching for quite some time to find some =
live Tribal Tech shows (or live Henderson or Willis) though with no =
success.  Does anyone have any they'd like to trade?

------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C00D62.F696ADC0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greetings, folks.  I've been searching for =
quite some=20
time to find some live Tribal Tech shows (or live Henderson or Willis) =
though=20
with no success.  Does anyone have any they'd like to=20
trade?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C00D62.F696ADC0--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Sponsoring Hat Hut
Date: 24 Aug 2000 04:28:28 -0000

On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:14:22 +0200 Pascal Cortes
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>I've just learnt that the great swiss label Hat Hut will
lose its sponsorship by UBS (a national bank union) at the
end of 2000.

While there is no dispute that Hat Hut Art continues to be
one of the great jazz labels, apparently Werner is not
very forthcoming with payment for the artists who record
for him...

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
Date: 24 Aug 2000 03:24:01 CDT

A few requests for some info/opinons:

1. The new Noel Akchote album RIEN (Winter & Winter), with Erik
Minkkinen on computer & Andrew Sharpley on turntables.  Is this Erik
Minkkinen the same guy as "Erik M"?

2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to comment?
  I read some mildly complimentary comments on the State51/Motion site, I
think.  His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty interesting
to me.

3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or
Charhizma catalogs?  I just disco(graphy)'d my way to their websites.  The
names of several of the musicians seem familiar, but much of it looks
interesting.  The sites are:

http://www.charhizma.com

http://www.durian.at
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Marsh" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Soft macine/muffins
Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:56:44 +0100


Peter wrote;

> If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the
> Muffins, doing similar stuff.  I believe they influenced SM quite a bit, but
> I could be mistaken.

methinks 'twas probably the other way round. the muffins were an american
group (produced on occasion by fred frith) who i don't think emerged till
around '79 or so. nice stuff though.


cheers


Peter

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: spillane reissue
Date: 24 Aug 2000 01:52:28 -0700 (PDT)

it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of Hank
Mccain on it, and with Mike Patton doing the
vocals...hearing it sent chills down my spine..the
booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get this
CD even if you own the original.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: spillane reissue
Date: 24 Aug 2000 18:54:41 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<< it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of Hank
Mccain on it, and with Mike Patton doing the
vocals...hearing it sent chills down my spine..the
booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get this
CD even if you own the original. >>

sure, but it's, uh, the Big Gundown, right?

------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><< it is so wicked cool that Zorn put the Ballad of =
Hank<BR>Mccain on=20
it, and with Mike Patton doing the<BR>vocals...hearing it sent chills =
down my=20
spine..the<BR>booklet is nice too...all you Zornists should get =
this<BR>CD even=20
if you own the original. >></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>sure, but it's, uh, the Big Gundown, right?</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C00DFC.C298FE20--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: correction:Big Gundown
Date: 24 Aug 2000 02:01:15 -0700 (PDT)

thats what I get trying to post at 5 AM..sorry folks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:04:10 +0200 (MET DST)

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith <[e-mail]> writes:

    Steve> [e-mail] wrote:
    >> the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last
    >> few years is one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's
    >> Sound (Atlantic). great tunes and playing by the classic
    >> quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for Jimmy Garrison, and
    >> it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox.

    Steve> Seconded... a gorgeous, gorgeous record, although far more
    Steve> "inside" than most of what's being mentioned in this
    Steve> thread. This is pretty staight stuff from the nascent
    Steve> "classic" quartet, prior to Garrison's arrival. I think
    Steve> it's the first time Trane used multiphonics on record, as
    Steve> well.

He used them earlier on "Harmonique" (on _Coltrane Jazz_), which was
recorded about ten months earlier than the _Coltrane's Sound_ sessions.

--Steve Berman


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ljova" <[e-mail]>
Subject: winter-winter Site
Date: 24 Aug 2000 05:08:32 -0400

Hi.

I was previously informed that the website for the 'Winter & Winter' label
was:
http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de/

But however my browser cannot find it anymore.  *sniff*

Did they relocate?  Or have I mistyped?

Thanks,

Ljova

P.S. A brief plug to tell you that my website, Ljova.com, is updated and
there's some interesting improv-related stuff there.  Cheers.


--------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
[e-mail]
http://Ljova.com

"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
        -Miles Davis


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:12:53 +0200 (MET DST)

>>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice L Roussel <[e-mail]> writes:

    Patrice> A record that was not mentioned and that I think makes
    Patrice> the transition from "classic" Coltrane to "modern"
    Patrice> Coltrane, is the amazing OLE. This is maybe the first
    Patrice> Coltrane record where you detect that he is more than a
    Patrice> fantastic and inspired player, but that he is also on
    Patrice> something else. Could it be one of his first "modal"
    Patrice> record (question for the specialist)?

If by modal you mean a reduction of chord changes as a basis for
improvising, I think his first as a leader is usually considered to be
_My Favorite Things_, recorded about half a year earlier than _Ole_
(and of course he recorded "modal" music still earlier with Miles).

--Steve Berman


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: winter-winter Site
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:16:27 +0200


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Ljova <[e-mail]>
Aan: Zorn-List <[e-mail]>
Datum: donderdag 24 augustus 2000 11:10
Onderwerp: winter-winter Site


>Hi.
>
>I was previously informed that the website for the 'Winter & Winter' label
>was:
>http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de/
>
>But however my browser cannot find it anymore.  *sniff*
>
>Did they relocate?  Or have I mistyped?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ljova
>

I experienced the same.  One time it works, next time it doesn't.
What's going on?

Jan Luyben


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Marsh" <[e-mail]>
Subject: coltrane/sines of the times
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:12:00 +0100

Martin wrote

> 1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP
> set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is
> that it's somewhat rare.

it is on an impulse cd (japanese only, i think) and it is a fantastic,
beautiful and terrifying document. it's still the one that pisses people off
in my experience...even more so than 'ascension' or the more unfettered
episodes on 'meditations'. i would back up the votes for 'stellar regions'
and would add 'expression' too - coltrane's last offical recording and
notable for the extended flute/piccolo duet with pharoah. lovely, but your
cat might not agree.

Bill wrote:

> << So is anyone infuriating listeners today in
> the spirit in which Coltrane and Coleman did in the sixties (by this
> measure, people like Vandermark are excluded), or is such a thing even
> possible in these days where among cliques like ours, the "new thing" is
> always expected?  If so, then where are these points of "anguish?" >>

and Jon wrote

>I think it's safe to
>say that the new wave of electronics improvisers, especially the ones working
>with sine waves, have confused and infuriated more than a few long-time avant
>improv fans.

i'm sure jon wasn't trying to draw a direct comparison with the outrage
coltrane provoked (and still is provoking by all accounts), but any
controversy that the sinewavers have produced is pretty small beer really.
the likes of 'ascension' must have upset many who'd followed jc through his
work with miles etc and probably as far as 'a love supreme'. i imagine a lot
of people felt betrayed. maybe if radiohead did a free improv record we
might see a similar reaction today. as bill suggests, there is so much
compartmentalisation of genres these days that the only possible way to
upset people is in the mainstream - hook 'em with a tune, then lock the
doors (to paraphrase steve lake).

to digress slightly, chris cutler told me that one of the few downsides of
the rise of small indie labels that specialise in avant garde stuff is that
it relieves the majors of any responsibility of catering to the likes of us.
this may seem a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it but take a look back
pre-punk and what do you find ? on UA - can, amon duul II. on virgin -
faust, tony conrad, fred frith, henry cow, robert wyatt. on cbs - terry
riley, miles' 70's stuff, hancock's sextant, ray russell. on vertigo - ian
carr's nucleus. on rca - keith tippett. just a thought.

cheers

peter

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: coltrane/sines of the times
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:22:49 GMT




>From: "Peter Marsh" <[e-mail]>
>to digress slightly, chris cutler told me that one of the few downsides of
>the rise of small indie labels that specialise in avant garde stuff is that
>it relieves the majors of any responsibility of catering to the likes of
>us.
>this may seem a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it but take a look
>back
>pre-punk and what do you find ? on UA - can, amon duul II. on virgin -
>faust, tony conrad, fred frith, henry cow, robert wyatt. on cbs - terry
>riley, miles' 70's stuff, hancock's sextant, ray russell. on vertigo - ian
>carr's nucleus. on rca - keith tippett. just a thought.


In these days of the "downsizing" of the avant-garde, shoveling the
responsibility to the indies was inevitable.  The majors pretty much lost
interest in this music in the nineties, or rather, everything got reduced to
"use-value" and the balance sheets, whereas in the seventies there was
always the potential for a groundbreaking artist coming along in the rock
fringe to keep the majors on their toes and the executives worried about
keeping their jobs.  That and the fact that their weren't as many indies
then, and the number of artists producing was comparatively smaller.  I
agree with your other point that sine waves are small change when compared
to the controversies surrounding Coltrane and Coleman.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Lounge Lizards
Date: 24 Aug 2000 12:25:48 GMT

Hey,

I stopped listening to Lounge Lizards long time ago, but suddenly started
wondering what they are up to... Any good albums since, say, 1990?

Also, there was some talk few weeks ago here, about an open letter from John
Lurie to The Knitting Factory (???) or something like that. I'd be
interested in reading it. Could anybody send it to me or guide towards it
with an adress, perhaps... Thanks.

ARTUHR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 24 Aug 2000 12:34:10 GMT

Hello again,

All this talk about sponsorship made me wonder about Tzadik. Anybody know
how that works finacially? I hope they don't run out of money anytime in the
near future. But they seem to be doing fine, considering they are still
releasing about a million albums every year.
I remember hearing long time ago, when Tzadik was just starting up, that
everybody (better make that "everybody") got 5000 US dollar to make their
CD, which should be enough for one day in the studio. Makes sense, since
most of my Tzadik CDs actually are recorded in just one day. I wonder if
that still holds... Also, are they still not doing any kind of advertising,
promotion CDs and so?

How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is
choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends,
but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of
profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing
himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself...

Anybody has any info about all this?

Just curious...

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:05:44 +0200

-----Original Message-----


Hello again,

How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is
choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends,
but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of
profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing
himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself...
Anybody has any info about all this?

(stefan) Correct me if I am wrong, but someone on this list talked about
this with Zorn, and the answer was like this:
-tzadik pays for the recording (like you mentioned)
-the artist gets half of the profit of the sales and tzadik gets the other
50% (And that 50% is divided between zorn, kazunori sagayima or something
like that and onother person who works for the tzadik label).

Best wishes,

Stefan Verstraeten

NP Masonna: Frequency LSD (When I hear this guy "sing", Mike Patton sounds
like a pussy)... god, I like japanese noise music.....


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:08:55 EDT

According to a Zorn interview from July, Tzadik still operates on a $5000 per
CD budget.  Zorn executive produces and chooses every CD released through the
label.  After the initial $5000 is recouped from sales, the profits are split
50/50 between the label and the artists.  My guess is Zorn uses his 50% of
each album's profits to run the label and fund other projects.  "Bar Kohkba"
is the most successful disc Tzadik has released to date, with over 30,000
units sold.  Since Zorn is the composer, he sees 100% of the profits from
that album, right?  And since it's a double CD that retails for around $20,
my guess is he clears about $10 for each copy of "Bar Kohkba."  That
translates into about $300,000.

Now, that doesn't mean Zorn is getting rich from Tzadik.  He's obviously
taken a HUGE chunk of that money and sunk it into releasing discs by artists
who will never sell even 1000 units.  He's probably taking a loss on a bunch
of Tzadik artists, but he obviously feels it's important to release them.
That to me makes Tzadik the coolest independent record company on the planet.
 (Didn't somebody say that about Hat recently?)

I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends on
promotion.  I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine.  Their web page is
the only marketing I've seen.  The costs to maintain that are pretty minimal,
I would assume.

Back to work,
Tom

NP:  Will the Circle Be Unbroken, Volume Two

In a message dated 8/24/00 8:34:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Hello again,

 All this talk about sponsorship made me wonder about Tzadik. Anybody know
 how that works finacially? I hope they don't run out of money anytime in the
 near future. But they seem to be doing fine, considering they are still
 releasing about a million albums every year.
 I remember hearing long time ago, when Tzadik was just starting up, that
 everybody (better make that "everybody") got 5000 US dollar to make their
 CD, which should be enough for one day in the studio. Makes sense, since
 most of my Tzadik CDs actually are recorded in just one day. I wonder if
 that still holds... Also, are they still not doing any kind of advertising,
 promotion CDs and so?

 How much is Zorn himself actually invovled? It seems clear that he is
 choosing all the artists, since they only release Zorn and closest friends,
 but I guess he is not calculating all the money... Is he making lots of
 profit from all this? Considering all the music he is composing and playing
 himself, I can't believe he is very deep in the bussiness himself...

 Anybody has any info about all this?

 Just curious...

 ARTHUR_G >>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: thanks & Soft Machine
Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:22:01 EDT

All,

thanks for the nice words about Cuneiform's releases. It's very nice to know
that our very hard work is appreciated - esp. artists like T. Plague &
Kerman/5uu's, which I would not necessarily think would be of interest to the
folks who read this list.

>I am coming from a prog background on this, and not a free-jazz background.
>If you like the free jazzier stuff, you may also like a band called the
>Muffins, doing similar stuff.  I believe they influenced SM quite a bit,
>but
>I could be mistaken.

The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were definitely
first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the
Muffins were active from about 1974-81.

And, btw, since it came up, we *always* pay our artists. Every six months
they receive a royalty statement & a check that matches the statement. All
without any help from millionaires...

Steve/
Cuneiform

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Trane: Live in Seattle
Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:35:49 -0400




>> 1. Trane: Live in Seattle, Impulse. With Pharoah. Terrifying two-LP
>> set. Have no idea if it's on CD, but props are due. My impression is
>> that it's somewhat rare.

> it is on an impulse cd (japanese only, i think)

Actually, it's a US release, two CDs, with prev. unreleased tracks.
The big internet stores have it.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: stravinsky - original jacket collection
Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:36:49 +0200


> Just saw a listing for this 9-disc set.  Is it a more reasonable selection
> as opposed to the 22-disc complete set (that's probably more Stravinsky
> that I need)?  Anything important missing other than "The Rake's Progress"
> and the oratorios?

I must say that because of technical reasons neither of those works do shine
in stravionsky's versions. As for the 'Rake's progress', get the (quite) new
Gardiner version. Bryn Terfel who does Shadow just kills, and everyone is
great - really fantastic perforammnces by all soloist, the moneteverdi
choir, and Gardiner/LSO. But Terfel as Shadow is the real star here. The
Nagano version of it is also ok - it has very loud violin section, and
sounds very dynamic. I've heard the ozawa version only once, but it sounded
quite interesting (Ian Bostridge who plays Rakewell in Gardiner's version
does some minor role here - Sellem, I believe). Never heard the Chailly
version available on Decca.
Gardiner version is a must.
BTW, i'm preparing a website deidicated to that opera. I'll let you know...
There's a great version of Oedipus Rex by Ozawa with Jessey Norman. Great.
As for stravinsky's versions, the finest performances IMO are Petroushka (an
incredible version) L'histoire du soldat, and the symphonies (especially in
3 parts).  i think they should be included in the box: if any of these works
are missing in the new box, avoid it (but i do not think they do)
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sine waves
Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:18:57 +0200

Could one of you explain what those sine waves are?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:20:27 +0200

Jon wrote:
> yeah, that's right. all of the laptop musicians in MIMEO (Fennesz, Pita,
> Marcus Schmickler, Kaffe Matthews) were running this during the 24 hour
show.

What is Suppercollider? (I'm about to become a laptop musician...)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:00:02 +0200

[e-mail] said:
> 1. The new Noel Akchote album RIEN (Winter & Winter), with Erik
> Minkkinen on computer & Andrew Sharpley on turntables.  Is this Erik
> Minkkinen the same guy as "Erik M"?

No, they are two different people. Erik Minkkinen used to be in Sister Iodine
(or still is? I don't know what they've been up to lately). I didn't have time
to listen to this album closely yet, but if you liked "Alike Joseph" on
Rectangle or his track on the excellent compilation "Strings & Stings" you
know what to expect.

> 2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to
> comment?

"Zygosis" is a really good CD. I had seen him a few times previously and began
to find his solo set a little predictable, but there were many good surprises
on this CD: a great variety, a good sense of humor... Another nice -- and very
different -- Erik M CD is the "Frame" 3" CD on Metamkine, where he plunders
the whole "Cinema pour l'oreille" collection in a 20-minute piece.


--
Julien



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #20
Date: 24 Aug 2000 09:00:21 -0500 (CDT)


> In a message dated 8/23/00 6:08:58 PM, [e-mail] writes:
> << I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very
> frequently
> in real time computer music.  But I also know next to nothing about the
> technical end of things. >>

then jon writes:
> yeah, that's right. all of the laptop musicians in MIMEO (Fennesz, Pita,
> Marcus Schmickler, Kaffe Matthews) were running this during the 24 hour show.

so then i ask:
i just did a quick peek for supercollider on the web; i didn't find a
homepage, but the tutorials i saw make supercollider look a lot like
Csound.  however, Csound doesn't do realtime processing (although it's in
the works).  Supercollider runs on Macs; Csound runs on Linux, Mac, and
Windows.  The former costs money, the latter is free.  is there anyone
out there familiar with Csound and Supercollider who could offer a more
detailed comparison?

whit
ps - yes, i'm thinking about what kind of laptop to buy...



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sine waves
Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:23:16 -0400

> Could one of you explain what those sine waves are?

It's the "purest" sound tone, on paper/oscilloscope it looks like the graph of a sine function (basically a completely regular/predictable up and down wave) thus the name.  Sort of a beeeeeeee with no overtones, dirtiness, whathaveyou.  I don't think audio sine waves occur naturally but could be wrong.  Sine waves of different frequencies or that are out of sync will create interference patterns as well.

Lang

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:22:53 -0400

At 3:20 PM +0200 8/24/00, Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>
>What is Suppercollider? (I'm about to become a laptop musician...)
>

At 9:00 AM -0500 8/24/00, Whit Schonbein wrote:

>ps - yes, i'm thinking about what kind of laptop to buy...
>



I'm with Whit and Marcin in wanting to hear more about Csound and
Supercollider.  But I'll also contribute these suggestions:

BackToBasics is a shareware program (Mac/Win) that maps sampled
sounds to keys on your laptop's keyboard.  I use it a lot.  It also
gives you pitch, volume, and looping control on each key, and a
pitch-bending strip as well.  Not real-time recording, but real-time
performing.  http://www.reinformation.com/

If you go the Mac route, there's a lot of interesting shareware out
there for audio manipulation.  (I'm sure there's a lot for the PC
side as well; I'm just not that familiar with it.)  SoundSculptor II
is great for multitrack recording/manipulation
(http://members.aol.com/sculptorii/) and Sound Studio
(http://www.felttip.com/products/soundstudio) is great for
direct-to-disk stereo recording, editing, and some manipulation.

Best wishes for getting your systems noise-ready.

Personally, very happy with my G3 Firewire 400,
Maurice

--
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: supercollider
Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:25:01 EDT


In a message dated 8/24/00 10:05:23 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< i just did a quick peek for supercollider on the web; i didn't find a
homepage, but the tutorials i saw make supercollider look a lot like
Csound.  however, Csound doesn't do realtime processing (although it's in
the works).  Supercollider runs on Macs; Csound runs on Linux, Mac, and
Windows.  The former costs money, the latter is free.  is there anyone
out there familiar with Csound and Supercollider who could offer a more
detailed comparison? >>

you might want to take questions like this to the microsound list, which is
full of laptop musicians, including most of the Ritornell roster. to join,
send a message to [e-mail].

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine
Date: 24 Aug 2000 19:31:38 -0700

>>>Every six months they receive a royalty statement & a check that matches
the statement. All without any help from millionaires...<<<

I'm a millionaire, and I buy your CDs.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 19:34:14 -0700

>>>What is Suppercollider?<<<

It's when the gravy leaks through the side of the mashed potatoes and runs
into the peas.

(I'll stop now.)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:45:45 EDT


In a message dated 8/24/00 4:25:50 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to comment?
  I read some mildly complimentary comments on the State51/Motion site, I
think.  His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty interesting
to me.>>

it's pretty good, but doesn't fully capture how great he can be live. his 20
minute solo performance at Otomo's Music Unlimited festival in Austria last
year was one of the best sets in the festival. there's a long track near the
end that reminds me of godspeed you black emperor!, which is kind of funny.
it's out of print, at least from Sonoris directly, but maybe you can turn one
up.

<< Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or
Charhizma catalogs?>>

my favorite Durian CDs are:

Burkhard Stangl-Recital
Efzeg-Grain
Werner Dafeldecker/Uli Fusseneger/Dieter Kovacic-Printer

the only Charhizma CD I'd unconditionally recommend is the self-titled
Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz/O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewert (now finally available in
the US through Dutch East India and Other Music, along with the rest of the
Charhizma catalog). Martin Siewert's Komfort 2000 is also pretty good.

also, Polwechsel 2 (hat (now) ART), is essential if you're beginning to
investigate this scene.

but honestly, the best CD to start with, if you haven't heard any of this
stuff, is the Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee (Erstwhile). I think
it's the CD I'm the most proud of releasing so far. any other opinions out
there on this one, or on any of these?

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Ong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:27:32 -0400


> Charhizma catalog). Martin Siewert's Komfort 2000 is also pretty good.

Did this disc grow on you? I should probably give it another listen today.
I've only listened to it once, but I felt the players rocked out too much.
Normally I guess that's not a bad thing, but it made this record sound a bit
cheesy in the overdramatic sense. Maybe the keyboard playing (by a z-list
favorite btw) is what blew it for me. Kind of the same goes for some
sections of the Efzeg record on Durian. I liked about 2/3rds of that disc.

The Siewert track on the dafeldecker/kurzmann/o'rourke/etc disc is lovely
though. Probably one of my favorite musical moments ever comes during the
last Drumm track, about half way in, where all the noise climaxes and you
can just barely hear a clarinet squeaking away underneath (which eventually
gets sampled I think and looped in semi-Evan Parker style). I actually
thought this track was going to blow out my speakers the first time I
listened to it. It gets really loud really fast.

Definitely in agreement here with Julien about Erik M's 3" CD (superb and
fresh) and with Jon about the Schnee disc. The Schnee disc deserves a better
commentator, but I'll just say if it's not making any sense right now and
you're wondering what the big deal is, just keep listening. Some
perseverance needed.

-eric.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine
Date: 24 Aug 2000 08:39:01 -0700


On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:22:01 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were definitely
> first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the
> Muffins were active from about 1974-81.

Aren't they currently touring? I read that they were playing at a festival
in France.

    Patrice (who can't get rid of the idea that Steve was playing at once
        with the Muffins, due maybe to the track on A RANDOM SAMPLER)).


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sine waves
Date: 24 Aug 2000 08:50:02 -0700


On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:18:57 +0200  "Marcin Gokieli" wrote:
>
> Could one of you explain what those sine waves are?

Sine waves are the "atoms" of every sound. This means that every sound can
be written as a combination of sine waves. By themselves, sine waves are
quite boring since they have no harmonic content. But some artists have
been making some exciting music with it (although I am pretty sure that
using sounds with a richer content would not hurt the quality of the
music, since, in my opinion, the use of sine waves is not what makes their
music so interesting).

    Patrice.

PS: to be rigourous, nobody really uses "pure" sine waves since for deserving
this label they should have infinite temporal extension; in fact, most of the
sine wave artists use glitches which are almost as far away from sine waves
as you can imagine.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: the muffins
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:55:36 EDT

>> The Muffins were a Soft Machine *influenced* band. The Softs were
definitely
>> first - their best period, imo, stretches from about 1968-72, while the
>> Muffins were active from about 1974-81.

>Aren't they currently touring? I read that they were playing at a festival
>in France.

Actually, yes - for the last 3 years they have had reunion concerts in D.C. &
last month they actually made it to NYC [Knitting Factory] and a jazz fest in
Rome that had a Knitting Factory-sponsored stage [where Doctor Nerve also
appeared].

Steve

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: SCHNEE, and more sine-us problems
Date: 24 Aug 2000 11:05:59 CDT

>From: [e-mail]
>...but honestly, the best CD to start with, if you haven't heard any of
>this
>stuff, is the Burkhard Stangl/Christof Kurzmann-Schnee (Erstwhile). I think
>it's the CD I'm the most proud of releasing so far. any other opinions out
>there on this one, or on any of these?

I've ordered SCHNEE, mostly on the strength of a terrific analytical review
on this list by Matthew Wirzbicki, from about one month ago.  (In the
archives, July 2000, http://www.browbeat.com//zornlist.html#Archive).  Just
thought I'd mention that for those who missed it the first time around.

Can we re-visit Lang Thompson's question, for those of us who haven't caught
much list discussion on the topic of sine wave _performance_ practices since
the hubbub about ISO's (?) perf at Victoriaville.  I believe Lang asked how
sine waves are turned into performance sound, and how this is improvisation.
  How different can sine waves be from one another?  And isn't it a pretty
inflexible medium?  Doesn't it veer perilously close to novelty-item
territory, like a special effect (i.e. theremin)?

-----s, re-sined to knowing next to nothing about sine
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut
Date: 24 Aug 2000 10:07:38 -0700


On 24 Aug 2000 04:28:28 -0000  "Tim Keenliside" wrote:
>
> While there is no dispute that Hat Hut Art continues to be
> one of the great jazz labels, apparently Werner is not
> very forthcoming with payment for the artists who record
> for him...

Strange, I never heard anything like that. I heard a (very)
few complaints, but never related to not being paid.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut
Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:18:33 -0400

I had a short email correspondence with someone who works closely
with Anthony Braxton about Braxton House and other issues and here's
a snippet: "I wouldn't ellaborate here about Braxton's experiences,
but I know that Hat Art are onme of the biggest thiefs in this
business."

Dan Hewins


At 10:07 AM -0700 8/24/00, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>On 24 Aug 2000 04:28:28 -0000  "Tim Keenliside" wrote:
>>
>>  While there is no dispute that Hat Hut Art continues to be
>>  one of the great jazz labels, apparently Werner is not
>>  very forthcoming with payment for the artists who record
>>  for him...
>
>Strange, I never heard anything like that. I heard a (very)
>few complaints, but never related to not being paid.
>
>    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SCHNEE, and more sine-us problems
Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:50:02 EDT


In a message dated 8/24/00 12:06:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Can we re-visit Lang Thompson's question, for those of us who haven't
caught
much list discussion on the topic of sine wave _performance_ practices since
the hubbub about ISO's (?) perf at Victoriaville. >>

yeah, I was going to try to answer this, I just hadn't gotten to it yet.

what I was thinking of with my original post about sine wave improvisers was
that ISO concert at Victo. upon further reflection, there aren't really that
many people improvising with "pure tone" electronics, most of them are more
in the sound construction or sound art field. Sachiko and Otomo (both in ISO)
are probably the two most prominent, although (to briefly combine two
threads) Werner Dafeldecker uses them on the Dean Roberts collaboration I
released yesterday.

two sets of questions:

<<Do you mean literal sine waves (which are pretty dull) or is that more a
shorthand for something else?  Are they making interference/modulation
patterns?  And in what way is this improvised?>>

<<How different can sine waves be from one another?  And isn't it a pretty
inflexible medium?  Doesn't it veer perilously close to novelty-item
territory, like a special effect (i.e. theremin)?>>

I don't know the technical definitions so maybe someone else can step in
here. it's improvised in that the musicians alter the music live as the show
progresses, just like any other improv. Ryoji Ikeda's shows in the past have
consisted of basically pressing play on a CD he's put together beforehand,
then sitting back and listening. this is obviously not improvising. but Otomo
and Sachiko especially are constantly introducing new sounds and altering
other ones in real time.

as for how much range they have or whether they're a novelty item, I guess it
partially depends on the listener and how much difference they hear between
them, plus how good the musicians are. when Otomo and Sachiko started
exploring this territory a couple of years ago, their first CD, Filament 1
(Extreme) was pretty one-dimensional, but they've since gone on to much
better things.

if you're really interested in this topic, my words and explanations can't
really do it justice; check out the ISO CD on Alcohol, preferably on a good
sound system.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik
Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:53:18 EDT

> According to a Zorn interview from July,

What interview?  Did I miss something on the newstands?

Jeff

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik
Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:01:02 EDT

In a message dated 8/24/00 1:54:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< > According to a Zorn interview from July,

 What interview?  Did I miss something on the newstands?

 Jeff
  >>


It was aired on the BBC.

Tom

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dann-Brown" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:13:13 -0400

> I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends
on
> promotion.  I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine.  Their web page
is
> the only marketing I've seen.  The costs to maintain that are pretty
minimal,
> I would assume.

When I order from the Tzadik website, DtMG always includes a Tzadik pamphlet
that lists every album released by the label as well as upcoming releases.
It's the only promotional thingy (a technical term) I've ever seen from
them.

But then again, do they need glossy half-page color ads?  We zornthologists
do a good enough job pushing releases thru word-of-mouth.

don't we?

-------
Dann-Brown

np: Carcass - "Necroticism"
-------



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:09:37 EDT

hey,
i can reccomend Audiomulch for anyone looking to work with computers in
windows. Great Real Time Processing, for sound editing I reccomend CoolEdit,
but most sound editing software programs are the same, unless somebody knows
about somethin I don't.

from,
matt
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/mattwellins">MP3.com - matt wellins</A>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 24 Aug 2000 14:23:51 EDT

i live down near orlando florida and i am one of those fortunate souls that
happens to have a local cd store that carries quite a bit of zorn/tzadik (and
other related) material.  the suprising thing is that it seems to sell.  i am
constantly seeing new material and on quite a few occasions i have muttered
"F***, they just had it here yesterday!"  it is nice to see artists such as
marc ribot at one of those nifty listening posts, and suprisingly enough a
good portion of those that work there are knowledgable of the music.  i also
enjoy the fact that i can go purchase a cd any particular day and HAVE IT IN
MY HAND without having to wait for it to be shipped to me.  There are times
when i question whether or not i should be buying from the record store or
from tzadik directly, but wouldn't the world be a better place if more stores
carried the music we listen to?  anyway, i rambled quite a bit, but the point
was that zorn and tzadik sell....not as much as mtv supported bands, but they
still sell.

dave

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sponsoring Hat Hut
Date: 24 Aug 2000 21:01:54 +0200


> I had a short email correspondence with someone who works closely
> with Anthony Braxton about Braxton House and other issues and here's
> a snippet: "I wouldn't ellaborate here about Braxton's experiences,
> but I know that Hat Art are onme of the biggest thiefs in this
> business."
>

only thing I can say is
let's Braxton elaborate by himself when/if he wants about ALL his
experiences in the business.
_________________
Francesco Martinelli
Lungarno Mediceo 10
56127 PISA ITALY
email: [e-mail]
webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/
fax [phone]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: ZYGOSIS, durian, charhizma, sinewavers
Date: 24 Aug 2000 13:16:54 -0600


Kristopher,

>2. Speaking of which, has anyone heard Erik M's ZYGOSIS and care to
>comment?  His work (I'm guessing) on POIRE Z (For4Ears) is pretty
>interesting to me.

I like ZYGOSIS quite a bit.  I love track 8.  There are also some great
tracks toward the end.  Many of the tracks are very short noises (like 3-4
seconds...some may be 20).  I just find it incredibly entertaining.  There
are a couple of hilarious moments toward the beginning but by the end
there's a track that you don't want to play loud late at night in the dark.
Very different from his contributions to POIRE Z (obviously) but I also
recommend this record even though its rather hard to make heads or tails of
who's who sound wise.

3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or
Charhizma catalogs?

I just recieved Stangl's "Recital" from anomalous yesterday.  I listened to
it last night but I think I made the mistake of breaking up my listening.  I
think soon I'll listen to it in a single sitting.  The booming piano at the
end of track three got me pretty excited after the first ten minutes of what
I'm guessing is an e-bow + detuning? (any help Jon?/anyone?).

Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz + "guitarists" is great.  (I think anomalous
may have just recieved copies of this as well).

I have "printer" (Dafeldecker/Fusseneger/Kovacic) but need to listen to it
more.  Tracks 2-4 are remixes by the various performers of the first track
which was recorded live.

ISO's self titled disc is also highly recommended although this is a
different ball of wax in many ways.  BTW- If anyone is thinking of looking
at Ikeda's sine wave material I would recommend +/- on Touch.  O degrees C
is also good but in a different way.  My favorite Ikeda moment comes in the
last three tracks of this disc.

hope this helps,
Matt Wirzbicki


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: thanks & Soft Machine
Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:42:20 +0000

on 8/25/00 2:31 AM, s~Z at [e-mail] wrote:

> I'm a millionaire, and I buy your CDs.

I need a new turntable. When I try to clean a disc on mine, the slightest
pressure stops the table dead. Is this not inexcusable for a supposed
discographer??!??  Would you like my shipping address?

Thanks,
RL

--
Marilyn CRISPELL, Susie IBARRA, William PARKER, Sam RIVERS, Matthew SHIPP,
David S. WARE, and Reggie WORKMAN Discographies-- Samuel Beckett Eulogy
--Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops --LOVETORN --HARD BOIL --etc.,
at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more
CDs...
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :  http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500

"Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the
majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections?  What
kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds?
There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav
(for MAC and PC).

Any info or links appreciated...


As Jon mentioned, the main software packages used by folks doing live
real time DSP, as well as interactive computer programs, etc are MAX,
LiSa,and Supercollider.  For better or for worse, there's little like
these programs for PCs).

There is pretty much true parity between the platforms on the more
standard types of sequencers, digital recorders and much other
MIDI-specific software (& as usual there are pluses and minuses for
specific software on the different platforms). & for at least some
composers & performers, this is enough, as they really only use their
computers as a playback system. But that's not what programs like MAX
do.

None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows
versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS
architecture. There are a number of real-time algorithmic/modular
synth and signal processing programs for PCs, but I don't know of
many people who are using them to do much that sounds particularly
progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using
Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly
be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.)

Some links:

for MAX try

<http://www.cycling74.com/index.html>

and

<http://node.net/unmax/>

For LiSa & other goodies from STEIM:

http://www.steim.nl/products.html

For Supercollider:

<http://www.audiosynth.com/>


Tom Erbe (SoundHack and other Signal processors)

<http://shoko.calarts.edu/~tre/>

I can provide links for composers who've been using these programs
long since the recent outbreak of laptop performers, but it'll take
some time to pull it together. If I don't hear back from the
veterinarian soon, I may send it out tonight.

Bests,

Herb
--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:11:20 CDT

I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic
FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R.
Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on
HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians.  Has anyone had the
time to check both out?  Is either noticeably superior?  Isn't there
expanded media on the Bridge edition?

Thanks, as always, in advance,

-----s, millionaire, generous with advances
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "H." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sine waves
Date: 24 Aug 2000 17:25:36 -0400

give a listen to ryoji ikeda...

http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1358953741/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/po
psearch.html

out
  H


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 16:44:17 -0500

In addition to the great stuff Herb mentioned, I should add that I
personally use MOTU's Digital Performer
(http://www.motu.com/english/software/dp/body.html) for real-time digital
effects processing, and it works wonderfully! DP has an 'audio monitor'
feature which will allow me to not only monitor the audio input coming
through on a record-enabled channel, but also lets me apply effects to
that channel in real-time.

On Thu, Aug 24, 2000, Herb Levy <[e-mail]> wrote:

>"Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>When people use laptops for real time digital signal processing, are the
>majority using midi interfaces, or other digital/analog connections?  What
>kind of software are people using to process signals and/or generate sounds?
>There are probably many availabe, just curious if there is a consensus fav
>(for MAC and PC).
>
>Any info or links appreciated...
>
>
>As Jon mentioned, the main software packages used by folks doing live
>real time DSP, as well as interactive computer programs, etc are MAX,
>LiSa,and Supercollider.  For better or for worse, there's little like
>these programs for PCs).
>
>There is pretty much true parity between the platforms on the more
>standard types of sequencers, digital recorders and much other
>MIDI-specific software (& as usual there are pluses and minuses for
>specific software on the different platforms). & for at least some
>composers & performers, this is enough, as they really only use their
>computers as a playback system. But that's not what programs like MAX
>do.
>
>None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows
>versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS
>architecture. There are a number of real-time algorithmic/modular
>synth and signal processing programs for PCs, but I don't know of
>many people who are using them to do much that sounds particularly
>progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using
>Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly
>be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.)
>
>Some links:
>
>for MAX try
>
><http://www.cycling74.com/index.html>
>
>and
>
><http://node.net/unmax/>
>
>For LiSa & other goodies from STEIM:
>
>http://www.steim.nl/products.html
>
>For Supercollider:
>
><http://www.audiosynth.com/>
>
>
>Tom Erbe (SoundHack and other Signal processors)
>
><http://shoko.calarts.edu/~tre/>
>
>I can provide links for composers who've been using these programs
>long since the recent outbreak of laptop performers, but it'll take
>some time to pull it together. If I don't hear back from the
>veterinarian soon, I may send it out tonight.
>
>Bests,
>
>Herb
>--
>Herb Levy
>P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
>817  377-2983
>[e-mail]
>
>-
>
>



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com  | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
Date: 24 Aug 2000 17:59:29 -0400

Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
>
> I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic
> FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California E.A.R.
> Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks) on
> HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians.  Has anyone had the
> time to check both out?  Is either noticeably superior?  Isn't there
> expanded media on the Bridge edition?

I've only got the Bridge version which indeed comes with an enhanced CD
which is basically past of a Feldman lecture about his music,
acompanied, if I'm remembering correctly, some animated graphics. The
EAR unit (for this recording) is Dorothy Stone/flute, Arthur
Jarvinen/percussion and Gloria Cheng-Cochran/piano & celeste. imo, a
spectacular piece of music, though I've heard that each version has its
champions.

Brian Olewnick

NP: AEC--Les Stances a Sophie. Finally available on disc! I can die
happy.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 18:14:00 -0400

As a music geek/current music major/somewhat knowledgeable person about
technical stuff, I've been meaning to chime on this thread, but now is the
first chance I've had.  I hope I can be of some use.

Sine waves are basically the simplest waveforms of sound in that they have
only  frequency (pitch) and amplitude (volume) but no harmonic content.
It's hard to explain this without getting too involved, but basically, all
sounds, even pitched ones, contain energy at many frequencies.  The lowest
(pitched) and loudest is the fundamental, the "note" you hear.  But you also
hear other tones in harmonic relation to the fundamental at higher
frequencies.  These are called "partials" or "harmonics," and what we hear
as harmony is based on the simple frequency ratios between these partials.
Which harmonics are heard and at what amplitude determines timbre, as does
attack and decay (how a sound reaches max volume and then falls off).
"Noise" is sound in which the partials are not in simple harmonic relation.
A graph of those kinds of sounds would look like a really squiggly line
going up and down.  Sine waves, when graphed, look like a simple little up
and down wave, and they have no partials.  That is, there is only sound at
one frequency.  In theory, you can combine sine waves to make all other
sounds (this is known as "additive synthesis"), but the realities of nature
make this unconvincing (as you know if you've heard a digital synth
imitating any acoustic instrument).  I'd imagine there's plenty of articles
on the web if you look up "acoustics" or "sine waves."

As for Supercollider, I'm probably taking a course in just that program this
semester.  So needless to say, it's quite involved.  My experience with it
so far is fairly limited, but it's basically a programming language designed
for audio.  That is, you can set up all kinds of operators for synthesis and
processing, and you can adjust a million parameters.  It's good for
real-time performance because you can write programs that essentially
function as instruments, assigning the mouse axes to certain functions and
the keys to triggers.  So you could, say, very simply, make a program where
moving the mouse to the right raises the pitch of a sine wave, and moving
the mouse up makes it louder.  If you investigate the Supercollider more,
you can of course make much more complicated stuff.  Someone else gave the
URL, which is www.audiosynth.com .  It's Mac only, and I think there's a
demo/trial version you can download.  You may be able to see an explanation
of some of the stuff it does too, ut I'm not sure.

I believe CSound is a synthesis program, but I'm not sure.  I've heard
MAX/MSP mentioned a lot by the new laptop people (Mego, etc.), but I have no
experience with it.  I'm not sure if it's used for synthesis, but I'm pretty
sure it has some tweakable sequencing functions.  A composer who came to my
school used it to control some motors, and he had a GUI that he could use to
bring up the speed of each motor, or multiple ones in tandem.

Aesthetically speaking, I think Ryoji Ikeda does some great stuff with sine
waves and other simple stuff, like white noise and rhythmic pulses.  +/- is
basically considered a near-masterpiece by a lot of people.  Someone asked
what you can do with sine waves, and this is a good example.  The record
sounds different from different places in the room, because the sine waves
combine in different ways depending on which speaker you're closer too.  So
just sine waves and panning can produce really cool effects.  You can move
one place and get extreme volume and have near silence somewhere else.
Actually, I was once playing a CD of some sine wave stuff I did, and I
thought it was quite soft.  But the girl next door complained about the loud
bass.  I realized that where I was, the low tones were canceling each other
out, but they were amplified where she was.

Anyway, what you can "do" with sine waves, aside from where you put them
spatially, is really just set the pitch.  And of course when you start and
stop each one, no small thing in good improv.

I can't really think of too many improvisers specifically using sine waves
that were mentioned.  Sachiko M uses a sine wave sampler, as mentioned.  And
various lap-toppers throw them in too.  There's also a bunch of rock bands
with sine-wave oscillators in their setups.  Simeon's setup in the Silver
Apples was basically a lot of sine-wave oscillators working together, and I
know Pelt uses one.  There's plenty of academic/"serious" people using them
too.  Lamonte Young's uses them in all the pieces where he sings with sine
waves, causing beating effects (rhythmic cancellation of the sound by out-of
phase sine waves).  And Alvin Lucier uses them in various pieces that
involve beating as well, although I can't think of which ones would be well
known and/or on record.

Yeah, anyway.  Please excuse the rambling.  I didn't get enough sleep last
night.  Any more technical/acoustic questions, try me, and I'll see if I can
fake an answer.

-Jesse


----- Original Message -----
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 6:06 PM


> >After reading some of the articles on the erstwhile site, I am
> >interested in figuring out a little more detail about the
> >equipment/resources used in this kind of music.
>
> I've heard rumor that a program called Supercollider is used very
frequently
> in real time computer music.  But I also know next to nothing about the
> technical end of things.
>
> Matt Wirzbicki
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Glenn Ianaro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 23:05:40 GMT

I started writing an email to the list, but it ended up being posted up on
my webpage.  It's got a good bit of info on DSP and software and Hardware
that I threw together for all the people on the list who are interested so
please check it out.

<A
href="http://members.xoom.com/liquidgroove/dsp.html">http://members.xoom.com/liquidgroove/dsp.html</A>

Glenn
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Lankin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 24 Aug 2000 19:52:22 -0400


> I'm not sure who he pays to do his accounting or how much the label spends
on
> promotion.  I've never seen a Tzadik ad in any magazine.  Their web page
is
> the only marketing I've seen.  The costs to maintain that are pretty
minimal,
> I would assume.

Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos, or
ads.  I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought
out.

Alan Lankin
[e-mail]

---
jazzmatazz == http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sponsoring Tzadik
Date: 25 Aug 2000 01:57:37 -0000

The tale I heard re: Tzadik was that Nike (Japan) wanted
Zorn to compose music for a 30 second TV commercial,
which he initially turned down, but after Nike offered an
outrageously high sum of money, Zorn relented since he
realised it was enough to start his own label, and
actually pay production costs for over 100 releases..

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
Date: 24 Aug 2000 21:46:20 -0500

There are now three recorded versions of For Philip Guston:

The Hat Art with Eberhard Blum - flutes, Nils Vigeland - keyboards, &
Jan Williams - mallet percussion (now out of print, I think)

The Bridge disc with California EAR Unit: Dorothy Stone -flutes,
Gloria Cheng-Cochran, keyboards, & Arthur Jarvinen, mallet percussion
(with a recording of Feldman's introduction to the work from a
concert & some photos available on CD-R)

& a very new release on Dog w/a Bone with SEM Ensemble: Petr Kotik,
flutes, Joseph Kubera, keyboards, & Chris Nappi, mallet percussion


The Hat Art discs are played by the musicians for whom the work was
composed, which might matter to some folks. It's also a very
dry,close recording, very little reverberation or room sound - for a
work like this, which requires closer listening than many others, I
like the fact that it sounds close to natural where I hear it. With
less of the recorded ambience of where it was recorded, I can more
easily hear the instruments comparatively transparently. Total time
of the performance: 4 hours, 25 minutes

The Bridge discs have a lot of room sound; this may be a live
recording. The performance is a bit faster than the Hat discs, total
time is 4 hours,  8.5 minutes. The CD-R audio of Feldman's intro to
the piece is very good, offering some information about his
relationship with Guston as well as some of his thoughts on the music
and its scale.

The SEM recording is the slowest total time of the performance is 4
hours, 48 minutes. I've only heard this recording once, but again the
overall recorded sound seems distinct from the others. The
instruments sound less separate than on the Hat discs, but there's
less reverberation than the EAR Unit recording. The interview
between Kotik and Walter Zimmerman provides a lot of useful
information on the SEM's approach to the work and the group's history
of performing the piece. (this text is available, along with many
other interviews, articles, and talks by and about Feldman, as well
as a full list of works, discography and other useful items, at the
Feldman Web site <http://www.cnvill.demon.co.uk/mfhome.htm>).

I've lived with the first recording longest, and they fit the kind of
recorded sound I usually like best for chamber music, but each of the
recordings seems an adequate representation of the work. It's hard to
imagine
--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "sebastian blume" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
Date: 25 Aug 2000 04:52:46 +0200

try the hat-art edition it`s absolutely the best  recorded version of a
piece you shouldn┤t record.


-----Ursprⁿngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
An: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. August 2000 23:59
Betreff: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions


> Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
> >
> > I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's
epic
> > FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California
E.A.R.
> > Unit (who are these guys?), the other the premier recording (methinks)
on
> > HatArt with Eberhard ____ and a couple other musicians.  Has anyone had
the
> > time to check both out?  Is either noticeably superior?  Isn't there
> > expanded media on the Bridge edition?
>
> I've only got the Bridge version which indeed comes with an enhanced CD
> which is basically past of a Feldman lecture about his music,
> acompanied, if I'm remembering correctly, some animated graphics. The
> EAR unit (for this recording) is Dorothy Stone/flute, Arthur
> Jarvinen/percussion and Gloria Cheng-Cochran/piano & celeste. imo, a
> spectacular piece of music, though I've heard that each version has its
> champions.
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> NP: AEC--Les Stances a Sophie. Finally available on disc! I can die
> happy.
>
> -
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cobra in Seattle 8/26
Date: 24 Aug 2000 20:26:41 PDT



Here it is, our biggest show ever.  I hope that everyone and their
Grandmother can come to this show.
26 musicians in 2 rooms performing 8 game pieces and fire performers
Thermogenesis outside.  Improvisation with film, TV, hand signals,
notebooks, flash cards and silly hats.  This show has even gotten
recommended writeups in both The Weekly (pg. 52) AND The Stranger (pg. 55).
I hope to see you there!!



Strategic Improv Labs 2000* and Consolidated Works presents :


Saturday, August 26, 8:30 p.m.

A N I G H T O F M U S I C A L G A M E S


C O N S O L I D A T E D W O R K S

410 Terry Avenue North

(between Harrison and Republican)


$7 Admission ($5 for ConWorks members) - visit:
http://www.conworks.org/music/index.html
<http://www.conworks.org/music/index.html>


Enfused with dynamic synergy, this evening's performances will overlap in
different spaces in Consolidated Works, allowing the audience freedom to
roam.




Over 20 local musicians and technicians will be on hand to administer
dangerous vibrations bordering on abstract and archane knowledge. The
interpretive structure of these musical games generates power, perhaps
spectacle. We trust the audience will provide sufficient conduit for
listening. Wine and beer will be available.  Fire performers Thermogenesis
will be summoning demons outside dueling fire and sound with DJ
Fountainhead.




B R O A D C A S T

A small ensemble reacts to random, reoccurring images on television. The
result: a musical perversion of a great American pastime. Devised by social
deviant Seth Howard.




C A G E D

The die determine the Dada/Surrealist Literature retched by chance and
bodily functions riffed by 4 vocalists. Bataille, Desnos, Jarry, Dorthea
Tanning among others sit on the board... Design mastered by one Stuart
McLeod.




C O N C O R D

A chaos theory cocktail with a dash of Machiavellian lust. Intoxicating
chemical reactions occur when planets dance and musical microcosms collide.
Formula patented by revolutionary theorist Carl Farrow.




G R A F F I K A

Icons, dots, expressive lines transmit meaning, motion, emotion to musicians
in turn. This composition extends graphic notation to a quivering point.
Constructed by aural aesthete Robert Henson.




I N S T A N T S C O R E !

Live evolution of the motion picture sound track. Short experimental films
by Mister Free. Mentalized by the Evil James Drage.



N O T E B O O K

A quartet interprets four discrete folios, each containing its own set of
ideas, notes, airs. Process distilled by the Godfather of Unit Circle, Kevin
Goldsmith.




P U L S E / I M P U L S E

A piece that demands the most of its ensemble. Will mutiny erupt? Conducted
by that tyrant Stuart McLeod, guiding light of SIL2K*.




Plus a special performance of John Zorn's C O B R A featuring all 26 members
of the ensemble.

Performers are: Annie Fanning, Bill Horist (Axolotl, Ghidra, Zahir, Tablet),
Carl Farrow (inBOIL, *Polar), Dave Knott, Erik Bauer, Eveline Muller-Graf,
Fran Lucas (Mambo 9), James Drage (Sub_Sonic, Ota-Prota), Jason Justice
(Tablet), Jeff Mueller (xaxis wye), John Moen, John Schuller (Ham &
Treachery, Trepanning Drill, ▄mlaⁿt), Jose Hernando, Kevin Goldsmith
(Intonarumori), Leah Gold (▄mlaⁿt, China), Lisa DeFrance (Tripod, China),
Paul Moore, Phil Petrocelli (soultheft, Trepanning Drill, ▄mlaⁿt), Reuben
Radding, Rick Roberts (The Posies, SushiRobo), Robert Henson, Seth Howard
(The Stone Throwers), Stuart McLeod (Sub_Sonic), Tim Rhodes, Travis Hartnett
(Tiktok, Electrochakra), and Wesley Davis (Entropic Advance, Trepanning
Drill).


*Founded shortly before the millennium, SIL2K is a Seattle-based collective
dedicated to the research and development of improvisation strategies for
music.



_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/electronic references
Date: 25 Aug 2000 00:06:20 -0500 (CDT)


Herb levy wrote:
> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500
> From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references

> progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using
> Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly
> be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.)

there isn't a realtime version of Csound yet, although i hear there is one
in the works.  as for the progressiveness - i've played with a lot of
programs for the intel PC, and while some of them allow one to make
'progressive' noises, they don't do it in real time.  the real time
software iv'e played with is very loop based (i.e., dance or club or acid
or whatever).  it basically sounds like the people making the programs
aren't into the kind of music we (or some of us) are into, and so don't
think of the possibilities.  it also is a pain to program windows,
which is why i work in linux... (sombody else on the list mentioned some
other programs, which i haven't explored, so mayber there is something out
there for PC users...)

whit



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 02:34:09 -0400


----- Original Message -----
Cc: "Zorn-List" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:52 PM

> Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos,
or
> ads.  I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought
> out.

Where did you hear that?  That's actually not true.  The radio station where
I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases (and I thank them for it).  And I'm
almost positive I've seen a Tzadik ad (though it could have been for Avant).
The one that has the logo and a long list of all the musicians.  I wouldn't
know about press releases, but the blurbs on the webpage certainly read like
them.  And you'd figure if someone bothers to write them, they'd send them
out. . .

I don't understand people's continued insistence that Zorn/Tzadik is so DIY
and poor.  Zorn does very well, I'm sure, and I wouldn't call an indie label
that can afford to give $5000 recording advances and fancy artwork on a
"tight budget."  Tzadik's success is due in a large part to savvy marketing,
plain and simple.  It's no accident that the records have a uniform art
theme, come in easily-grouped series, and are strongly identified with Zorn
(if I'm not mistaken, he's listed as "executive producer" for all releases).
There's plenty of labels that release great music but don't have their
records "sought out."  Unfortunately, marketing has quite a bit to do with
it, and Tzadik has done that well.

-Jesse




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
Date: 25 Aug 2000 08:26:57 +0200

> I've been looking at the two available recordings of Morton Feldman's epic
> FOR PHILLIP GUSTON, one on the Bridge label, featuring the California
E.A.R.
> Unit (who are these guys?),

Isn't EAR Unit the band that Zappa talked about in Real Frank Zappa Book as
having pretended to play one of his pieces at a festival which was actually
played from a synclavier? A very funny story. What are they up to?
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 24 Aug 2000 23:54:53 -0700

Jesse Kudler wrote:
>
> I believe CSound is a synthesis program, but I'm not sure.

Yes it is. It's been around for quite a while (lots of folks were using it when
I was in grad school in 93-95 & it wasn't new then). AFAIK it isn't manipulable
in real-time (back then, it wouldn't even create the sounds in real time, you
had to write sound files to disk & then play them back. This may have changed
while I wasn't looking.

Like Supercollider, it requires real programming ability (in, duh, C ... as
opposed to Supercollider's own language).

> I've heard
> MAX/MSP mentioned a lot by the new laptop people (Mego, etc.), but I have no
> experience with it.  I'm not sure if it's used for synthesis, but I'm pretty
> sure it has some tweakable sequencing functions.  A composer who came to my
> school used it to control some motors, and he had a GUI that he could use to
> bring up the speed of each motor, or multiple ones in tandem.

Opcode MAX (as opposed to the IRCAM version) originally was strictly for doing
things with MIDI, with the kicker being that you could use *any* source for the
numbers, so long as they were ints between 0-127 or 0-65k ... and there were
objects that would control serial objects, so you could, yes, do things like
control stepper motors, or take inputs from pressure pads, electric eyes, etc.
One of my advisors, Peter Gena, was spending the year converting DNA sequences
of deadly diseases to use for various control functions; other folks have done
stuff with live EEG traces. It was also extensible by writing C++ modules which
would do basically anything you wanted, as long as they had inputs/outputs that
could work in the MAX interface. Supercollider started out as a MAX extension
called Pyrite.

'Long about 2 years ago, a new version of MAX added a secondary package called
MSP which basically brought direct control of the sound card's DSP chip inside
MAX -- much of what Supercollider does is now available from w/in MAX-- while
keeping the programming interface (which is MAX's strong suit) consistent. This
has the advantage that you can be controlling DSP synthesis and MIDI devices
(not only synth modules, but lights, motors, laser discs, cd players, whatever)
within the same program.

I've seen Yasuhiro Otani and Carl Stone doing really complicated-sounding things
with MAX patches that looked really simple (*on the surface*, anyway) -- one of
the nice things is that you can build a very intuitive, natural screen interface
-- on/off buttons, switches, sliders -- to control the mass of spaghetti
underneath.

It's also really easy to exchange the files, since they output as extremely tiny
text files.

http://www.cycling74.com/

Herb Levy wrote:

> None of the people who write MAX, LiSa, etc. want to make Windows
> versions, apparently because of extreme differences in the OS
> architecture.

Actually, since he bought the program back from Opcode, David Zicarelli (who did
the original port to Mac from the IRCAM workstation) has been working on a
Windows version, which should be out Real Soon Now(tm). But I'm not holding my
breath on the schedule ;-).

--
Jim Flannery                                        [e-mail]

         "My hair has grown thin thinking of music."
                                             -- I Wayan Lotring

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: electro-improv rec's request: akchote, durian, charhizma
Date: 25 Aug 2000 07:33:36 -0400

At 03:24 AM 8/24/00 CDT, Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
>A few requests for some info/opinons:
>
>3. Could anyone drop some recommendations for any of the Durian and/or
>Charhizma catalogs?

No one has recommended the Orchestra 33 1/3 album yet, so I'll jump in.
It's quite varied, with some of the electronics that we expect from the
label, plus some occasional straight ahead big band work.  I like the
variety, even tolerating the occasional vocals because there is so much
ground covered.  I also listen to the Dafeldecker/Fennesz/Kurzmann meet
O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewart album a lot.  This album is much more in the
microsound land and very well done.

The only Durian album I've got so far is Efzeg, and as it's a recent
addition I've only listened to it once.  I liked it a lot, but can't
provide other comments yet.

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Glenn Ianaro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/electronic references
Date: 25 Aug 2000 13:36:00 GMT

I dont' know if my original post got through yet, but Csound does run in
realtime, and it runs best in realtime on a PC.  It runs very well, but is
COMPLETELY dependant on the speed of your processor.  I am running realtime
csound on a PII 400 and it is pretty good, on a PIII  1Ghz wow...it is
great.  Again, it isn't the regular version os Csound that runs like this,
but a  special DirectX version by Gabrial Maldanado.  It is essentially the
same, but optimized for realtime throughput and extra opcodes for better
realtime control.  It is really worth checking out.  I'll be putting up some
music on the web for all to hear soon.

Glenn


-------------
>
>Herb levy wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0500
> > From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
> > Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
>
> > progressive, to me at least. (I don't think I've heard anyone using
> > Csound, which is a very cool program, live; though I could certainly
> > be wrong on that - & I'd like to hear the work.)
>
>there isn't a realtime version of Csound yet, although i hear there is one
>in the works.  as for the progressiveness - i've played with a lot of
>programs for the intel PC, and while some of them allow one to make
>'progressive' noises, they don't do it in real time.  the real time
>software iv'e played with is very loop based (i.e., dance or club or acid
>or whatever).  it basically sounds like the people making the programs
>aren't into the kind of music we (or some of us) are into, and so don't
>think of the possibilities.  it also is a pain to program windows,
>which is why i work in linux... (sombody else on the list mentioned some
>other programs, which i haven't explored, so mayber there is something out
>there for PC users...)
>
>whit
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 09:40:16 -0400

>The radio station where I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases

I've heard Tzadik sends promos to about a dozen stations.  I know WREK (Atlanta) receives them and would be almost certain that WFMU does as well.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 10:20:16 -0500

Jesse Kudler wrote:

> > Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos,
> or
> > ads.  I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought
> > out.
>
> Where did you hear that?  That's actually not true.  The radio station where
> I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases (and I thank them for it).

As Lang Thompson pointed out, there is a list of some 12-15 radio stations that
get comprehesive service from Tzadik.

>  And I'm
> almost positive I've seen a Tzadik ad (though it could have been for Avant).
> The one that has the logo and a long list of all the musicians.

I remember this as well, although it only ever happened once.

>  I wouldn't
> know about press releases, but the blurbs on the webpage certainly read like
> them.  And you'd figure if someone bothers to write them, they'd send them
> out. . .

No.  They are written for Koch International's new release books, the tools
with which the sales reps for the distributor convince the stores to stock the
CDs.  There are no press releases because there are no press mailings, unless
the individual artist undertakes one him- or herself.

> I don't understand people's continued insistence that Zorn/Tzadik is so DIY
> and poor.  Zorn does very well, I'm sure, and I wouldn't call an indie label
> that can afford to give $5000 recording advances and fancy artwork on a
> "tight budget."

$5,000 isn't that much money for a recording.  And while Zorn's presumably
comfortable, please remember that Tzadik is run as a non-profit organization -
Zorn makes a little, Kazunori makes a little, the art director makes a little,
but most of the money goes straight back into funding new recordings.

>  Tzadik's success is due in a large part to savvy marketing,
> plain and simple.  It's no accident that the records have a uniform art
> theme, come in easily-grouped series, and are strongly identified with Zorn
> (if I'm not mistaken, he's listed as "executive producer" for all releases).

I tend to view the groupings into series as less a savvy marketing ploy and
more a reflection of Zorn's compartmentalization of the various genres that
interest him.  I haven't ever seen his legendary collection, but I know I
separate my collection by genre.

> There's plenty of labels that release great music but don't have their
> records "sought out."  Unfortunately, marketing has quite a bit to do with
> it, and Tzadik has done that well.

I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general willingness
on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars.
"Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct ways of
selling things to people.  My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some money
and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have THAT
on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 25 Aug 2000 08:26:41 -0700


On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:14:00 -0400  "Jesse Kudler" wrote:
>
> I can't really think of too many improvisers specifically using sine waves
> that were mentioned.  Sachiko M uses a sine wave sampler, as mentioned.  And
> various lap-toppers throw them in too.  There's also a bunch of rock bands
> with sine-wave oscillators in their setups.  Simeon's setup in the Silver
> Apples was basically a lot of sine-wave oscillators working together, and I
> know Pelt uses one.  There's plenty of academic/"serious" people using them
> too.  Lamonte Young's uses them in all the pieces where he sings with sine
> waves, causing beating effects (rhythmic cancellation of the sound by out-of
> phase sine waves).  And Alvin Lucier uses them in various pieces that
> involve beating as well, although I can't think of which ones would be well
> known and/or on record.

And let's not forget the grandfathers of electroacoustic music: the Koln school
(Herbert Heimer, Stockhausen). If I remember well, Stockhausen's STUDY I is for
sinusoids. Although, of course, the motivations in the early 50s were quite
different (sinusoids were not a choice since it was almost the only kind of
periodic signal available at that time :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 08:31:07 -0700


On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:52:22 -0400  "Alan Lankin" wrote:
>
> Because of their tight budget, Tzadik doesn't do press releases, promos, or
> ads.  I guess the quality of recordings is good enough that they're sought
> out.

I think that there is another reason: they do not believe in the value of
promos (you know, the hundreds of records that you mail and which are barely
responsible for a handful of sale...).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 25 Aug 2000 12:58:55 -0400

On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 08:26:41AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> And let's not forget the grandfathers of electroacoustic music: the Koln school
> (Herbert Heimer, Stockhausen). If I remember well, Stockhausen's STUDY I is for
> sinusoids. Although, of course, the motivations in the early 50s were quite
> different (sinusoids were not a choice since it was almost the only kind of
> periodic signal available at that time :-).

Until I remembered what the word meant, my first thought was that
sinusoids could make sneezing quite painful :-)

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:29:04 -0400

Hmmm. .  I guess we should feel honored then.  The station is WESU in
Middletown, CT by the way.

-Jesse

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:40 AM


> >The radio station where I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases
>
> I've heard Tzadik sends promos to about a dozen stations.  I know WREK
(Atlanta) receives them and would be almost certain that WFMU does as well.
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:44:56 -0400


----- Original Message -----

> $5,000 isn't that much money for a recording.  And while Zorn's presumably
> comfortable, please remember that Tzadik is run as a non-profit
organization -
> Zorn makes a little, Kazunori makes a little, the art director makes a
little,
> but most of the money goes straight back into funding new recordings.

Yeah, $5000 isn't that much for a good recording studio, but I'd guess that
most labels I like can't afford to give *any* recording advances.  $5000 is
certainly enough to demonstrate that Tzadik isn't operating hand-to-mouth.

Tzadik is non-profit?  I didn't know that.  I knew about Hips Road (Zorn's
non-profit org.), but I wasn't aware that Tzadik was part of that.

> I tend to view the groupings into series as less a savvy marketing ploy
and
> more a reflection of Zorn's compartmentalization of the various genres
that
> interest him.  I haven't ever seen his legendary collection, but I know I
> separate my collection by genre.

Well, I don't, but that's irrelevant I guess.  I tend to view the series as
marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities
that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series.  I'm
not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in
"Radical Jewish Culture."  And didn't someone once post an anecdote to this
list about talking to a Tzadik artist who said that they really didn't see
whey their record was part of that series?  Besides marketing?


> I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general
willingness
> on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars.

Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it
to the label so much *is* marketing.  Cf. the executive producer credits.

> "Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct
ways of
> selling things to people.  My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some
money
> and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have
THAT
> on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"...

Perhaps.  I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way
struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love.  If you like
the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a
record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out music
without eyes on financial gain.  Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but
that's the way it is.  And if you really want to vote with your dollars,
there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
more radical music than Tzadik is.

And I do think Zorn's expenditure of time on that Tower avant-garde section
amounts to marketing when it means that all Tzadik titles are in their own
sperate section.

-Jesse


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels
Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:50:35 EDT

In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:
<< there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
 more radical music than Tzadik is. >>

Such as?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels
Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:13:38 -0500

On Fri, Aug 25, 2000,  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
><< there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
> more radical music than Tzadik is. >>
>
>Such as?

Metatron Press
BoxMedia
Pogus
Einstein
Periplum
Deep Listening

Just to name a few off the top of my head.

| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com  | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels
Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:13:56 EDT


In a message dated 8/25/00 3:53:18 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< << there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind,
much
 more radical music than Tzadik is. >>

Such as? >>

this question wasn't directed to me, but here's my quickly compiled list:

Paradigm
Alga Marghen
Durian
Trente Oiseaux
For 4 Ears
Grob
Mego
Matchless
Corpus Hermeticum
Amoebic
Utterpsalm
Touch
Sound@One
Metonymic
Charhizma
Perdition Plastics
Alcohol
Bruce's Fingers
Acta
Sonoris
Selektion
Digital Narcis
Pogus

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:31:45 -0500

Jesse Kudler wrote:

> I tend to view the series as
> marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities
> that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series.  I'm
> not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in
> "Radical Jewish Culture."  And didn't someone once post an anecdote to this
> list about talking to a Tzadik artist who said that they really didn't see
> whey their record was part of that series?  Besides marketing?

Your point is well-taken, but I disagree in principle and I think Zorn would be
highly offended.  Many of the artists may not necessarily see their day-to-day
work as being part of a "Radical Jewish Culture" continuum, but Zorn's explicit
point in the series is to prod his fellow Jewish artists to deliberately assess
their Jewish background.  Marty Ehrlich and Erik Friedlander have both told me
that they weren't clear at first on the mandate or whether they belonged in
such a series, but each of them found something unique to address based on
Zorn's request.  Steven Bernstein had to be provoked into making a
contribution, but 'Diaspora Soul' was the result, a true winnner in the
series.  Neither Lee Konitz nor Steve Lacy, two well-established jazz icons,
had ever given much thought to their heritage but were quick to respond to
Zorn's mandate.  And Jamie Saft's 'Solvanut' is an even-more radically
divergent recording that clearly addresses aspects of Judaism from an intensely
personal (and even specifically geographically Brooklyn-centric) perspective.

Nor does Zorn seem to be expressing the opinion that any Jewish person making
music is part of the "Radical Jewish Culture" series, either.  Right now I'm
listening to the new Ned Rothenburg CD, which is part of the Composers Series
and features lots of shakuhachi, pipa and cello.  Mark Dresser and Guy
Klucevsek have been part of the Composers Series as well.  The Radical Jewish
Culture series is more explicitly about provoking artistic response in a
specific way, and I don't see it as a simple marketing ploy the way the
Knitting Factory's crass cash-in series "Jewish Alternative Movement" clearly
is.

> Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it
> to the label so much *is* marketing.  Cf. the executive producer credits.

Establishing the cult of personality is not something Zorn set out to do, it
just happened because he is who he is and acts the way he does.  But using it
as a tool could indeed be labelled "marketing" - that's a point I'm willing to
concede.  When I was working at Koch a the time that Tzadik was first launched,
we regularly commented upon the fact that the records on Tzadik were guaranteed
to sell more than similar records we had on similar labels, just because Zorn's
name is attached.  So yes, I'll agree that that could be construed as a
marketing ploy, but at least it's an altruistic one.  Personally I buy
virtually everything on Tzadik as an act of blind faith in Zorn's ability to
steer me towards provocative music.  Sure I've been burned, but the good has
largely outweighed the bad or iffy.  I don't do it because I'm on a mission to
support the label.

> I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way
> struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love.  If you like
> the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a
> record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out music
> without eyes on financial gain.

You're correct again, but given the non-profit structure, you can at least be
fairly certain that your dollars are being funnelled directly into the
promulgation of more such music, and that the label is not going to disappear
or do a radical about-face to find more commerically-viable music to shore up
the bottom line or put more cash in Zorn's pocket or up his nose.

> And if you really want to vote with your dollars,
> there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
> more radical music than Tzadik is.

Yes.  At least three of them are frequent flyers on this here list (Jon,
Patrice and Herb), and perhaps there are others I'm missing even among present
company.  (Steve Feigenbaum has surely transcended that status by now, but even
he is just above the break-even point as he's just told us, so it's just as
much a labor of love for him.)

> And I do think Zorn's expenditure of time on that Tower avant-garde section
> amounts to marketing when it means that all Tzadik titles are in their own
> sperate section.

On this subject there's really no debate.  It's clearly the most
straightforward and clearcut example of marketing in which the label has ever
engaged.  And whatever the supposed altruism of Zorn's effort, it does in fact
give the records on his labels increased exposure rather than ignominious
invisibility.

I don't really disagree with anything you said, in other words, except for the
bit about "Radical Jewish Culture," an argument aired on this list before and
most likely a continuing debate.  But I do think that Zorn's efforts have
mainly been fairly elegant and appropriate to the level of the music.  And
perhaps, just perhaps, the success of Tzadik opens doors for some of the other
genuinely struggling bedroom operations of which you speak.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ned Rothenberg, "Duet for Alto Saxophone and Percussion," 'Ghost Stories'
(Tzadik)

P.S. Add me to the list of folks who are loving the new 'Big Gundown' reissue
and those terrific bonus tracks.  The track with Bailey is killin'.
P.P.S.  Kurt Gottschalk, drop me a private line, please.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:34:42 EDT

Honestly, the California Ear Unit versions of Feldman pieces are actually
MORE accurate according to the score than the Hat Art ones by the people for
whom the pieces were actually written.  Sounds weird, but it's TRUE.  Figure
that one out.

-matt mitchell, who prefers the Bridge version (and the New Albion version of
Why Patterns? that the Ear Unit does)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ethan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik promos
Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:44:08 -0400 (EDT)


WXYC gets promos from Tzadik, although as I recall we had to bug them
about it for a while, and then suddenly we got a box of 15+ CDs from
them...  we had been getting them in the past mainly by buying them or
DJs' donations.

ethan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Orchester 33 1/3
Date: 25 Aug 2000 14:47:09 -0600


>No one has recommended the Orchestra 33 1/3 album yet, so I'll jump in.
>It's quite varied, with some of the electronics that we expect from the
>label, plus some occasional straight ahead big band work.  I like the
>variety, even tolerating the occasional vocals because there is so much
>ground covered.

FWIW - The Orchester release on Charhizma didn't do much for me although
they do cover quite a bit of ground.  But I like their self titled release
on plag dich nicht.  I find with the charhizma release that I like what
they're doing one second and then don't like what they do the next.  With
the self titled release I find myself liking one *track* and then not liking
the next (I almost never listen to the Brotzmann led track).  The highs
points are higher and more frequent on the Plag Dich Nicht.  One of the
early tracks has a scattered break beat with a great guitar solo...plenty of
noises...i don't even know who plays it.

Matt Wirzbicki

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada Discs for sale
Date: 25 Aug 2000 13:58:30 PDT

I have all ten of the DIW Japanese Masada discs for sale on eBay right now.
All are in great shape. Reserve on each is $7.00.

my account name is schules

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=schules&sort=2&page=2&rows=25&since=-1

Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Moudry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels
Date: 25 Aug 2000 15:53:40 -0500

At 15:50 25-08-00 EDT, [e-mail] wrote:
>In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
><< there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
> more radical music than Tzadik is. >>
>
>Such as?

AUM Fidelity (William Parker; Matthew Shipp; David S. Ware; Little Huey
Creative Music Orchestra; Joe Morris);
Eremite (Test; Sabir Matin; Alan Silva)
Wobbly Rail (Ken Vandermark; Steve Lacy; AALY Trio)
and the list could be continued to long lengths. Quite a few of them are
included in my label checklist project on Saturn Web:

<http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry/discog/>

which, by the by, is FAR from a comprehensice list. Anyone with data on the
labels in the checklist, or labels that need to be added, please let me know.

Saturnally,
Joe Moudry

Web Master, Saturn Web
producer/host for Creative Improv & Classic Jazz, Alabama Public Radio

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Aug 2000 16:19:17 -0500

  "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]> wrote:

I tend to view the series as
marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities
that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series.  I'm
not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in
"Radical Jewish Culture."


Uh, as far as I can tell from the releases on Tzadik, neither does
Zorn.  Here's a partial list of nominally Jewish artists who have
released CDs in a Tzadik series other than Radical Jewish Culture:

Alvin Curran, Mark Dresser, Mark Feldman, Daniel Goode, Ned
Rothenberg, Elliott Sharp, and, of course, Zorn himself.

For that matter, not all releases by Japanese composer/performers are
in the new Japan series (consider the discs of music in the Composer
series by  Mamoru Fujieda, Ikue Mori, Yuji Takahashi, and Otomo
Yoshihide).

It seems pretty clear to me that Zorn has an idea of what belongs in
each series and isn't simply organizing these releases solely based
on the artists' ethnic background. The underlying concepts may not
always be clearly presented, but that's a separate issue.
--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 25 Aug 2000 17:32:22 +0000

on 8/25/00 4:58 PM, Joseph Zitt at [e-mail] wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 08:26:41AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>> Stockhausen's STUDY I is for sinusoids.
>
> Until I remembered what the word meant, my first thought was that
> sinusoids could make sneezing quite painful :-)

If you ever post a message like this to the group again,
I'll be forced to have you removed...

;-)
RL
--
Marilyn CRISPELL, Susie IBARRA, William PARKER, Sam RIVERS, Matthew SHIPP,
David S. WARE, and Reggie WORKMAN Discographies-- Samuel Beckett Eulogy
--Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops --LOVETORN --HARD BOIL --etc.,
at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more
CDs...
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :  http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels
Date: 25 Aug 2000 18:10:43 -0400



> In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
> << there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind,
much
>  more radical music than Tzadik is. >>
>
> Such as?

Erstwhile, Perdition Plastics, Boxmedia, 4 Four Ears, Various Austrian
labels (Durian, Charhizma, Plag Dich Nicht), Okka Disk . . .

Oh, I just read the rest of my mail, and Jon and others covered most of the
labels I would've named.  Some of those may not actually be "one-man bedroom
labels" (I have no idea how most of the European ones work; Mego seems to
have several staff people, for instance), but you get the point.

-Jesse


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 21:13:23 -0400

At 10:20 AM 8/25/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>I separate my collection by genre.

I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this.  I've got
jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's
Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical'
tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by
continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni
Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff
discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything
else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do).  What
are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dann-Brown" <[e-mail]>
Subject:
Date: 25 Aug 2000 21:22:19 -0400

> For that matter, not all releases by Japanese composer/performers are
> in the new Japan series

and, my fave, the Wadachi disc of a Japanese trio playing klezmer - where
does that one go? =-)
(it's under New Japan)

-------
Dann-Brown


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 26 Aug 2000 02:36:34 GMT




>From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>

>KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music,
>   though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the
>   common sense.  Is the name Kim Suk Chul?  Could someone correct me
>   on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or
>   outlets?  Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would
>   be most welcomed.

>From: [e-mail]

>are there a lot of Chul CDs available? I scoured NYC and the WWW a while
>back, and didn't come up with much. I'd love to hear more...
--------------------

Sorry to take so long on this, but a recent monsoon has left me pretty inert
about checking around.

There are currently two CDs by Kim Seok-chool (a more accurate rendering of
the pronunciation) that are easy to obtain over here.  They are released by
Samsung's subsidiary E&E Media.  The first, "East Wind," was recorded in
Japan and it features Kim playing traditional Korean drums and gongs and
singing shamanistic folk songs on the first four tracks.  On the fifth and
last he plays the hojok or nallali to marvelous effect.  My only wish
regarding this recording would be that the hojok be featured more.  The
other tracks are fine and rather typical in traditional Korean music.  The
liner notes by Manabu Yuasa pronounce that "in front of" Kim, "even
virtuosos who have developed jazz by Albert Ayler, John Coltrane, or Sun Ra,
have no choice but to leave their instruments and be soaked for a while in
the speechless pleasure of his music."

For those more interested in a productive synthesis of Kim with free improv
musicians, "Final Say" is a better choice.  This CD features Kim with
Wolfgang Pushnig on tarogato and alto.  Pushnig, a Carla Bley alumn, has
been in Korea a lot lately playing in the ensemble Red Sun (Jamaaladeen
Tacuma, Rick Iannacone, and Linda Sharrock) with Samulnori. He is
accompanied by free improv tenor sax phenom Lee Jung-shik, as well as
Japanese alto saxman Kazutoki Umezu.  These four play without rhythm support
on the first and final tracks and the result is really fabulous, with the
hojok soaring above the fray, becoming almost otherworldly in the
harmonically limited terrain of the saxes (think Eric Dolphy in some of his
more outrageous moments).  At times the hojok sounds like its going out of
control and will destroy the composition.  The other three tracks include
Kim Jung-hee and Kim Jung-kuk on kwaenggwari, a traditional drum, Kim
Tong-yol on ching, a gong-like instrument, and Jang Duck-hwa on changgo,
another type of drum.  Both of these CDs are available for around 10-11
dollars.

In addition to the JVC CD mentioned previously, Kim has also played with
another improvisational sax powerhouse, Kang Tae-hwan.  I haven't been able
to track this one down yet, but occasionally one finds Kang's CDs floating
around.  He's an exceptional player.

I've owned what I think is the best of the Red Sun/Samulnori collaborations
for awhile--"Then Comes the White Tiger" on ECM, which I can probably still
find here.  Some of their other collaborations have been less than
successful, if I can be aesthetic for a moment, though I do like the Samsung
released "From the Earth to the Sky, which is readily available here for
12,000 won.

Pascal mentioned Kim So-hee and pansori previously.  She is perhaps the
single most important living pansori artist in the country, though there are
a number of others.  One should also note the musical tradition that
accompanies dance, or salpuri, as well as the orchestrated suites or sanjo
played on a number of traditional instruments, like the kayagum, Korea's
beautiful zither, sometimes used on recordings in western music, on Laurie
Anderson's CDs for example.  The haegum, on the other hand, is somewhat like
a violin.  These days, a dollar is worth roughly 11,000 won.  Here are the
prices on a number of worthwhile recordings:

Kim So-hee box (5 CDs) 45,000
Ahn Sook-sun and Park Byung-chon (pansori) 12,000
Ahn Sook-sun 6 CD box 51,000
Ahn sook-sun 3 CD box 35,000
Cho Soon-ja Complete Female Lyrics (6 CDs) 57,000
Kim Dong-joon (pansori) 19,000

There's also a fine kayagum box set of 2 cds for 19,000 as well as
individual CDs by the aforementioned artists for 10,000 won.  A good start
on Korean traditional music is the series on SKC called "Folk Music
Highlights."  I think there's about 10 in the series and they're all around
10,000 won.  YBM also has a nice series called the "Pal-do-Min-yo" and a
friend one recorded a collection of modern traditional music that uses some
synthesizer that I like a lot.

If any of this interests you, contact me privately and we'll work out the
details.

Cheers,
Bill






________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 25 Aug 2000 21:48:12 -0400

On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 02:36:34AM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote:
>  These days, a dollar is worth roughly 11,000 won.  Here are the
> prices on a number of worthwhile recordings:
>
> Kim So-hee box (5 CDs) 45,000
> Ahn Sook-sun and Park Byung-chon (pansori) 12,000
> Ahn Sook-sun 6 CD box 51,000
> Ahn sook-sun 3 CD box 35,000
> Cho Soon-ja Complete Female Lyrics (6 CDs) 57,000
> Kim Dong-joon (pansori) 19,000
>
> There's also a fine kayagum box set of 2 cds for 19,000 as well as
> individual CDs by the aforementioned artists for 10,000 won.  A good start
> on Korean traditional music is the series on SKC called "Folk Music
> Highlights."  I think there's about 10 in the series and they're all around
> 10,000 won.  YBM also has a nice series called the "Pal-do-Min-yo" and a
> friend one recorded a collection of modern traditional music that uses some
> synthesizer that I like a lot.

So do I understand you that these can be gotten for a little more than $1
per disc, or am I not grokking something about the price conversion? Hell,
at that kinda price I'm pick up most of them just out of curiosity.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell
Date: 26 Aug 2000 02:50:23 GMT

Steve mentioned Patrice and Herb having their own bedroom-run labels.  I'd
like to know more about these, and I'm sorry if it's been mentioned
somewhere in the archive that I don't know about.  It's always good to hear
about new releases from list denizens, and I think it's important to keep up
with what people are doing on the list musically, particularly in terms of
labels and distribution.

On this note, I saw on the Erstwhile site that a CD will be coming out
involving Stillupsteypa, featured on Mille Plateaux's superb Cliks and Cuts,
and with the latest Dean Roberts, I was wondering if more such projects
involving Mille Plateaux artists would be coming on Erstwhile.  I'm
particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days.  I wonder if Jon has
thought about working with him.

On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a
list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell.  I've
found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about
ensuing releases.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 22:59:37 EDT

In a message dated 8/25/00 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I separate my collection by genre.

 I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this.  I've got
 jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's
 Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical'
 tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by
 continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni
 Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff
 discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything
 else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do).  What
 are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?
  >>


alphabetical order

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
Date: 26 Aug 2000 03:02:57 GMT

Sorry typo.  That should have been 1$=1,100 won.


>From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
>
>So do I understand you that these can be gotten for a little more than $1
>per disc, or am I not grokking something about the price conversion? Hell,
>at that kinda price I'm pick up most of them just out of curiosity.
>
>--
>|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
>| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
>| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
>| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
>
>
>-
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:13:52 -0400

I tend to agree that alphabetical is the way to go for most cds/lps...I'd be too
tempted to make ridiculous in-jokes that only I'd get (like putting Yoko Ono in
the Bluegrass section) and then forgetting that I'd done it.  But I do have the
"various artists" arranged by type...Soul, bluegrass, "avant," "weird (I mean
good) classical" "other pop" (like WFMU compilations), country, jazz (early
swing to sixties blue note comps), out jazz (Ayler-Zorn)

Strangely, the comps that were hardest to file were the "Whirlygigs..." comp on
Ellipsis Arts and "The East Village Other"

Matt

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/00 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>

> alphabetical order
>
> -matt mitchell
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:22:46 EDT

In a message dated Fri, 25 Aug 2000  9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]> writes:

<< At 10:20 AM 8/25/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>I separate my collection by genre.

I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this.  >>


No order for me, for now.  However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

=dg=


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Ong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell
Date: 25 Aug 2000 22:42:32 -0400

Hey,

> On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a
> list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell.  I've
> found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about
> ensuing releases.

These are the recent and upcoming releases for the MP camp...

Mille Plateaux

MP 90    GEEEZ `N`GOSH(aka Atom)  My life with jesus
MP 91    PLURAMON       Bit Sand Riders
              rmxes by Hecker,Merzbow,snd,Randomix,Mogwai,Reenaldo,etc
MP 92   SND         stdiosnd types
MP 93   KID 606   p.s. I love you
MP 94   TERRE THAEMLITZ
MP 95  VLADISLAV DELAY

Ritornell

RIT 13  CHRISTOPHE CHARLES        Undirected/dok
RIT 14  AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE        Afternoon Tea
RIT 15  RANDOM INDUSTRIES          Selected random works
RIT 16 STEPHAN MATHIEU                Wurmloch Variationen
RIT 17 ACHIM WOLLSCHEID             Shifts

-eric.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 04:01:19 GMT




>From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
>What
>are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?


Not very.  My vinyl is organized into jazz (including avant), classical,
experimental (broadly construed), and pop (including rock and reggae).  For
CDs I have divisions for electronica, avant (including Cage, Xenakis, etc.),
jazz, rock, blues, and international.  I also have separate sections for
Zorn, Laswell, Brotzmann, Coltrane, Miles, Sun Ra, Derek Bailey and
Yoshihide.  At the moment I have close to 650 CDs and another 200 on vinyl.
I also have about 200 tapes.  I imagine my collection is fairly sparse
compared to the people on this list.

My former grad advisor is a metal head who keeps his CDs in Case Logic cases
on his book shelf.  He finds his music by checking a map he's drawn of the
genres--grindcore, grungecore, death metal, etc.  Some of the categories are
self-inventions.  There's also case for a miscellany of other items
including Xenakis, Brotzmann, and Bach.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:14:47 -0500

Bill Ashline wrote:

> My former grad advisor is a metal head who keeps his CDs in Case Logic cases
> on his book shelf.  He finds his music by checking a map he's drawn of the
> genres--grindcore, grungecore, death metal, etc.  Some of the categories are
> self-inventions.  There's also case for a miscellany of other items
> including Xenakis, Brotzmann, and Bach.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "1," 'Time Is of the Essence Is
Beond Time' (AUM Fidelity)

(and DAMN did OTiM sound good tonight at Marcus Garvey Park, along with Little
Huey and Joe McPhee's Trio X...)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:17:51 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:

> No order for me, for now.  However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

LOL.  Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "1," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:28:33 EDT

In a message dated Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:20:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Steve Smith <[e-mail]> writes:

<< [e-mail] wrote:

> No order for me, for now.  However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

LOL.  Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion...
>>

Darn- I thought I was being original and stuff...

Oh well- I'll stop before the "off topic" police jump in here.

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 04:34:15 GMT




>From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
>
>Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner...

Great.  I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year.



>From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
>
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
> > No order for me, for now.  However, one day I plan to arrange them via
>spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
>
>LOL.  Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion...

True.  But I thought it worth indulging Caleb this time around.  And I'm
always curious about how large our private libaries are.  It's the "Auto da
Fe" in me.

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:41:43 -0400

On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 12:28:33AM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:

> Oh well- I'll stop before the "off topic" police jump in here.

They only dive if you start rhapsodizing here about the Avant-Garde
mailing list.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Calling out Patrice and Herb
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:36:17 -0500

Bill Ashline wrote:

> Steve mentioned Patrice and Herb having their own bedroom-run labels.  I'd
> like to know more about these, and I'm sorry if it's been mentioned
> somewhere in the archive that I don't know about.

It's actually not as well-known as you might think.

Patrice seems willing to talk rather definitively about virtually anything
except himself, so I'll call him out for having released swell records by David
Garland and Irene Aebi on his label, Ergodic.  (Previously he was the "jazz
advisor" for Cavity Search and got them to release records by Steve Lacy and
Wayne Horvitz.)

And Herb Levy runs the damn fine Periplum.  Enough said.  (You DO still run
Periplum even though you moved to Cowtown, right, Herb?)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
(tickled to death to realize how close my subject line comes to reading
"Calling out Peaches and Herb"... shake your groove thing, indeed...)
NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "4," 'Time Is of the Essence Is
Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: long answer to labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:45:07 EDT

<<On this note, I saw on the Erstwhile site that a CD will be coming out=20
involving Stillupsteypa, featured on Mille Plateaux's superb Cliks and Cuts,=
=20
and with the latest Dean Roberts, I was wondering if more such projects=20
involving Mille Plateaux artists would be coming on Erstwhile. >>

actually, one of the projects I'm working on now is the duo of Marcus=20
Schmickler, who records as Pluramon for MP, and Thomas Lehn (012, out in=20
October, I hope). Schmickler played a very nice solo set at Tonic about a=20
month ago, and will be touring here again next month as Pluramon. Marcus'=20
description: "pluramon is, in fact, a headbangin=B4, pretty archetypical,=20
minimal electronic virtual rock project and i=B4m playing it with a drummer.=
"=20
dates:

THU 9/28 LOS ANGELES, CA  Knitting Factory

FRI 9/29  SAN FRANCISCO, CA  Bottom of the Hill

SAT 9/30  SEATTLE, WA   Crocodile Caf=E9

TUE 10/3 NEW YORK, NY  Knitting Factory

WED 10/4 TORONTO, ON   Rivoli    TENTATIVE

THU 10/5 DETROIT, MI   Motor Lounge

FRI 10/6 CLEVELAND, OH  Speak in Tongues

SAT 10/7 CHICAGO, IL   Empty Bottle

<< I'm particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days.  I wonder if Jon=
=20
has=20
thought about working with him.>>

I borrowed both Delay CDs from a friend a month or two ago, and only really=20
liked the first track on Entain (previously released on his Sigma CD). I ten=
d=20
to prefer abstract electronics to the more beat-driven stuff. that being=20
said, I'd be interested in hearing someone processing him live. I'm not a bi=
g=20
fan of most of Carsten Nicolai's (Noto) work either, but he played a duo sho=
w=20
with I-Sound at Tonic a couple of years ago that was remarkable, with I-Soun=
d=20
adding enough life to the proceedings to make the sparse tones feel soulful.=
=20
not processing, but the same general idea.

Erstwhile projects, at least so far, are all basically improv records, with=20
minimal postproduction of any kind. musicians like Delay and Thomas Brinkman=
n=20
are studio guys, not improvisers (although I've never seen either of them=20
live, so feel free to correct me), so it's hard to set up a collaboration=20
involving them, outside of the processing idea above.

in related Erstwhile news, I-Sound (a NYC-based turntablist) just put=20
together a 5 minute "reconstruction" piece called Folded. he stored sounds=20
from the first 12 Erstwhile CDs on his hard drive, then built an original=20
piece from them. it'll be included in the Wire Tapper double CD in the=20
October issue, which subscribers and UK buyers get with the issue, but=20
overseas newsstand buyers don't. press release excerpt:

<<The Wire Tapper Special Edition: our most extravagant freebie to date,
the cover mount to end them all, an exclusive 30 TRACK DOUBLE CD which has
been specially compiled to mark our 200th edition and which will be given
away free with copies of the October issue. Includes new, unreleased tracks
by Coil, John Fahey, Pan Sonic, Faust, Flanger, Christian Marclay & Otomo
Yoshihide, Current 93, Nurse With Wound, Angus MacLise, Sensational, The
Fall and many more. Only available with The Wire 200, October 2000 issue>>

a longer version of Folded (around 8:30) will be up on my web site in the=20
next week sometime.

<<On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a=
=20
list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell.  I've=20
found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about=20
ensuing releases.>>

also, if you haven't heard Dean's Ritornell release yet, you should. pop=20
songs (including Dean's vocals) dropped into a steaming hot vat of=20
electronica, and the remnants left dissolved on the surface, including an=20
awesome version of Eno's Cindy Tells Me. Tim Barnes (the guy putting togethe=
r=20
the Angus MacLise series on Quakebasket/Siltbreeze) did a great job producin=
g=20
this record (as well as Aluminium). Dean and Tim are recording the follow-up=
,=20
also for Ritornell, next month, and it'll hopefully be out around the end of=
=20
the year.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

NP: Art Ensemble-Theme De Yoyo from Les Stances A Sophie (Universal=20
Sound/Soul Jazz), my favorite AEC track ever.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Don Gunning" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 25 Aug 2000 23:54:30 -0500

>What
>are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?

The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle.  If I didn't
have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have
some problems sometimes).  I do have a couple smaller racks that I keep
my more mainstream things in (things that other people may actually want
to hear).  When I put my CD list on my website I was going to try to
classify things according to genre, it's still up there that way
although just about everything is either "Jazz" or
"Ambient/Experimental".  Just got to be to difficult for me to put too
fine a point on things, life's too short.  What classification does
Captain Beefheart belong in?  Soft Machine?  Steve Tibbets, Incredible
String Band?   Don't all tell me now....

BTW, this is my first post to the Zorn list, been lurking for a couple
of months.  I've been enjoying the conversation and have picked up some
excellent things already based on recommendations I've heard here.  So
thanks everyone and keep it up....

back to lurking,


Don





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:56:06 -0500

Bill Ashline wrote:

> >From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
> >
> >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner...
>
> Great.  I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year.

I hope you understand that my awe was *genuine* and not cynical...  my own
shelving system is far more pedestrian, and besides, I love the fact that you
had a grad advisor who's into death metal.  Makes me feel pretty fuckin' OLD,
though, and I'm only 34, gadammit...  Please tell me that your advisor was 50
and trying to recreate his youth...

> >From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
> >
> >[e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > > No order for me, for now.  However, one day I plan to arrange them via
> >spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
> >
> >LOL.  Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion...
>
> True.  But I thought it worth indulging Caleb this time around.  And I'm
> always curious about how large our private libaries are.  It's the "Auto da
> Fe" in me.

Oh, Bill, please don't think I was dissing you for responding to Caleb's
request.  The fact of the matter is that I simply hadn't gotten around to
posting my own response, having chosen to respond to you and dgasque and give
props to Patrice and Herb first.  Don't you worry, when it comes to a record
geek shelving convention, I'll always be the first in line, and I'm not even
apologizing about it anymore.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "6," 'Time Is of the Essence Is
Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity)
(...and as much as I'm loving this performance, would it have been too much to
ask of the Knitting Factory to engage the services of a fucking piano tuner?
Or are Yamaha Disclaviers supposedly immune to tuning problems?  Not the case
according to my ears...)




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 01:14:11 -0400

"Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this.  I've
> got jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's
> Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical'
> tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by
> continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni
> Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff
> discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything
> else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do).  What
> are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?

top to bottom:
pop (eg. black sabbath, public enemy)
mainstream electronica (eg. amon tobin, bjork)
experimental electronica (eg. ryoji ikeda, early squarepusher)
classic jazz (eg. miles, bill evans, early coltrane)
modern jazz (eg. dave holland, steve coleman, john scofield)
classical (modern composers)
world (regional organization)
free jazz (eg. cecil, mat maneri, daniel carter) blended with
avant garde (eg. some zorn)

but it tends to result that there is a laswell section containing
dub, remixes, last exit, sacred system, etc.  these all belong in
separate places elsewhere, but i keep em together.  same for the
zorn records: straightahead jazz, chamber music, rapid fire quick-cut
genre-bending tunes... so independent of all other classifications,
those two occupy th lower rack.

the rack is set up so the easiest to reach is the bottom.
people who visit my house and want to choose music inevitably
get pissed off that they are too short to reach the music they like.

man i really need to get that braxton solo disc.

np: john coltrane, a love supreme.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: addendum
Date: 26 Aug 2000 01:17:58 EDT

forgot to include the answer to this, sorry...

<<On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a

list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell.  I've

found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about

ensuing releases.>>

click on Ritornell at http://shop.force-inc.com for descriptions of the ones
already out.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 06:03:04 GMT




----Original Message Follows----

Bill Ashline wrote:

 > >From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
 > >
 > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner...
 >
 > Great.  I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the
year.

I hope you understand that my awe was *genuine* and not cynical...  my own
shelving system is far more pedestrian, and besides, I love the fact that
you
had a grad advisor who's into death metal.  Makes me feel pretty fuckin'
OLD,
though, and I'm only 34, gadammit...  Please tell me that your advisor was
50
and trying to recreate his youth...

Actually my former advisor is now 44, just a tad older than me, and he's not
trying to recreate his youth;  he simply can't stand to live without heavily
distorted guitars.  But believe me, his organizational methods have been a
great source of mirth for all his friends, myself included.  I mentioned it
for that very reason.

Cheers.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: newcomer
Date: 26 Aug 2000 11:34:35 +0200

Hi

I'm new on the list so recommended on the "AvantGarde" list.
Now only lurkin'  but don't wanna be undisclosed :)))
Greetings to old friends from Avant /lot of folks I see/ and to the new
friends.
Discussion seems to be very diverse and exciting, real "food for thoughts"

Jerzy Matysiakiewicz
[e-mail]


NP - Beaver & Krause "In a Wild Sanctuary/Gandharva/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels
Date: 26 Aug 2000 10:31:27 GMT

Hey,

>>>In a message dated 8/25/00 3:53:18 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>>>there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my >>>mind,
>>>much more radical music than Tzadik is.
>>
>>Such as?
>
>this question wasn't directed to me, but here's my quickly compiled >list:

Eh, nobody has mentioned the great and truly pioneering Incus Records!?

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 09:55:20 +0200


> From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
> > I think it's less marketing, more cult of personality and a general
> willingness
> > on our part to trust what Zorn's promoting and vote with our dollars.
>
> Well, yeah, but I think establishing that cult of personality and tying it
> to the label so much *is* marketing.  Cf. the executive producer credits.

I agree with both of you. Jesse seems to be right in saying that it is
marketing - i often buy (or at least consider buying - a Tzadik CD costs
about 20 USD in Poland) Tzadik CDs because thaey're 'Zorn-recommended'. And
it is marketing - if i remember correctly, one of the comany's goals is to
help to promote the artists who would remain unknown. But, contary to most
marketing strategies I know, i find it very correct. Normally marketing goes
along the lines of 'buy it and you're gonna make some funny things with that
chick from the third row!'. Here it's different (and here is the major
difference between big labels and independent ones).

> > "Marketing" suggests the expenditure of time and often money to concoct
> ways of
> > selling things to people.  My sense of Tzadik is more of a guy with some
> money
> > and a lot of ideas sitting around thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool to have
> THAT
> > on my shelf?" and then substituting the word "label" for "shelf"...
> Perhaps.  I was just annoyed by this idea that Tzadik is in any way
> struggling or that it's strictly a money-losing labor of love.  If you
like
> the records, of course you should buy them, but I don't think buying a
> record on Tzadik is really supporting a tiny little indie who puts out
music
> without eyes on financial gain.  Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but
> that's the way it is.  And if you really want to vote with your dollars,
> there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
> more radical music than Tzadik is.

    Well, and here we achieve a point that i find quite important: a great
point for Tzadik is that they release music that is not alway radical. I
find the quest for radicalism a kind of fetechism. I like melodies;  i like
music, in fact, and melody seems to be a dominating factor of it ( ok maybe
that was too strong). The biggets reason of masada's greateness is just the
perfect mix of great melodies - superbly arranged and performed - with more
noisy elements. And if we look at circle maker, that the melodical factor
becomes even more important. That music is IMO similiar in spirit to '20s
neoclassicism of ones such as Stravinsky or Hindemith - who made real
innovation by the means of looking at tradition(s) and dealing with them. In
Zorn's case, Filmworks II should be the best example of such an approach.
Noise is, of course, great...

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 09:13:00 -0600

Twenty-five years ago, when my record collection was much smaller and
manageable, I went the "by genre" route, but as the collection (and my
tastes) grew, I surrendered to the simple allure of "alphabetizing"...
So...

1) Alphabetized by last name or name of group (with exceptions: for
example, Sun Ra under 'S', since I always refer to him by full name; and
prominent leaders of various ensembles and projects - hence, Masada and
Naked City are filed under Zorn, and there's lotsa stuff filed under Will
Oldham...)

2) Chronological after that - although that's gotten tougher with CD
reissues, box sets, &c. - stuck within there usually last...

3) Various artist collections: after 'Z', then alphabetical within that...
unless the material has a coherent theme or unifying aspect ('tribute'
albums, original cast recordings, Yazoo collections of old jugband music,
'song-poem' comps, &c.) - then it's alphabetized by title in 'A-Z'.
Exception: John Giorno's "Dial-a-Poem" series (under 'D')...

4) Collaborations and splits: usually alphabetized by first artist listed
(the Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz - O'Rourke/Drumm/Siewert collab on
Charizma under 'D' [and thanks again, Jon Abbey!], occasionally by favorite
artist (so I can remember it...), even less occasionally by record name
(when I just give up)...

Laswell's recombinant aesthetic really fucks up all this geekazoid
categorizing, but I grin and bear it - his projects are sprinkled all over
the place... and the current taste for remixology beyond dance music
muddles the distinctions even further.

Then there's a rackful of old vinyl records I use(d) for sampling and
dj-ing: educational records, children's songs, hypnosis, stereo
demonstrations, bird songs, obscure spoken word, &c. - stuff I regard more
as "tools", although occasionally one of 'em worms its way into the
"listening" collection - go figger...


>But believe me, his organizational methods have been a
>great source of mirth for all his friends, myself included.  I mentioned it
>for that very reason.

Yep, but for me, laughter with a tinge of quease - reading/watching "High
Fidelity" definitely struck bone a couple of times...

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodies (long)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 10:19:47 -0400

Ah, birthday splurges! If only I could convince my wife on the utility
of semi-annual birthdays...

Noel Akchote        Rien            Winter & Winter

A trio session w/ Erik Minkkinen ("computer") & Andrew Sharpley
(sampler, turntable), Akchote clearly steers this venture towards the
electro-improv side of things, while retaining the moody quality of
"Lust Corner". He does a pretty good job, if not up to the rigorous
standards of others who do it regularly, though the final cut, "Pousse",
where his guitar sound is most traditional, is possibly the best track
here. Don't let the back-cover blurb put you off too much: "RIEN is a
journey, a road-movie as well as a soundtrack." Yeah, whatever.

Fred Anderson, etc    2 Days in April        Eremite

Solid double disc document of two blowing sessions from 4/99 w/ Kidd
Jordan, William Parker and Hamid Drake. Anderson and Drake stand out for
me, delivering consistently imaginative, muscular playing. I was less
impressed with Jordan, who seems too content to follow Fred's lead and,
for the umpteenth time in my experience (warning: heresy to follow), I
find nothing special at all with Parker. Perhaps it's the recording
conditions, but he sounds muddy and routine throughout much of the
session. I would've loved to hear a bassist with more punch and
creativity (Kessler, for instance) with this group.

Robert Ashley        Automatic Writing    Lovely

Ashley believes himself afflicted with a mild form of Tourette's,
wherein he spontaneously utters word-like phrases. So, being an
interesting guy, he decided to compose a piece of music around it. The
result, "Automatic Writing" is one of the more disturbing, disquieting
things I've heard recently; one feels as though one is eaves-dropping on
someone mumbling secrets in his sleep. Very eerie and VERY effective. Of
the two other pieces included, "Purposeful Lady Slow Afternoon" is
another harrowing work, with a rape victim clinically recounting her
experience. Highly recommended, but not, as they say, for the squeamish.

Marc Blitzstein        The Airborne Symphony    RCA Victor

The original 1946 recording of one of my favorite oddball, one-off
pieces of music. Kind of an oratorio celebrating the history of flight
and warning of its potentially dire (wartime) consequences, filled with
Americana (how many classical works include the terms "snafu" and
"fubar"?). I still prefer the early 70's recording with Orson Welles as
narrator, but either one is spectacular.

Fennesz/O'Rourke/Rehberg The Magic Sound of Fenno'berg    Mego

Not unfamiliar to most here, I guess. Fine, imaginative work, worth it
just for the final track alone, where John Barry's theme from
"Moonraker" is looped like a throbbing, heavily breathing creature and
subjected to electrostatic bombardment.

Tom Johnson        An Hour for Piano        Lovely

Back in the 70's, people had IDEAS for pieces, damn it! Johnson, in
particular, was great at melding self-referential ideas into his music
and this is a fine example. The listener is asked to read the extensive
liner notes while listening to the piece (here performed by Frederic
Rzewski), which begin "It is important that you try not to allow the
program notes to distract you from concentrating on the music." and go
on to force one to seesaw between the text and the music (which is
blandly pretty), noting the different accents one "hears" depending on
what is being read/heard. Fascinating work. At least to me--I could
readily see many being bored to tears.

Alvin Lucier        Theme            Lovely

Three new-ish works. The first, "Music for Piano with Magnetic Strings"
strikes me as the most successful. The "pianist" (Lois Svard, here),
positions 5 e-bows on the strings of a piano and waits for them to
sound, adjusting the positions as she sees fit to achieve varying
harmonics. One neat aspect is that it takes several minutes for the
sound to reach audible levels, so you listen to nothing for a while
until a hum begins to creep in and flower. Two other pieces, a setting
of a Sam Ashley poem and a work for gamelan ensemble are enjoyable, if
less striking.

(Various)        Pays Masikoro-l'Accordeon    Ocora

Wonderful hinterlands music from Madagascar featuring accordeon,
recorded 1997-99. Dance-oriented (in the village sense), raw and loose.

Mario Pavone/Nu Trio    Remembering Thomas        Knit

I caught this trio (Peter Madsen/piano, Matt Wilson/drums) earlier in
the summer at the Knit and they were superb, performing, as here,
several Thomas Chapin pieces.    This recording doesn't quite measure up to
that performance but it's still quite solid, inventive and enjoyable.
All three players deserve a wider audience.

Aki Takahashi        Hyper-Beatles        EMI

(Finally found it, Steve!) Takahashi, known for her performances of
Feldman, Cage, Rzewski, etc. commissioned (back in the late 80's) a
number of contemporary composers to write arrangements of Beatles tunes.
Some deliver a very abstracted product (Cage, Curran, Inoue), others
fairly straight, even sentimental readings (Raphael Mostel, Barbara
Monk-Feldman). The most successful, for me, are the ones that straddle
this divide, especially Peter Garland's version of "You've Got to Hide
Your Love Away". I understand there's a Vol. 2, only issued in Japan
perhaps, which includes Lucier's take on "Strawberry Fields Forever".
Anyone know if it's available?

Vandermark 5        Burn the Incline        Atavistic

Another strong outing from this band, though I don't think any of their
recorded output has matched their live play. This fits comfortably in
the same zone as previous releases--perhaps fewer KV riff-oriented
works. The big plus here is the bonus disc (not always included--be
careful) where the band covers some avant classics: "Happy House"
(Coleman), "Composition 69L" (Braxton), Conquistador, Part 2" (Taylor),
"Goodbye Tom B." (McPhee), "Saturn" (Sun Ra), "Gazzelloni" (Dolphy) and
"New York Is Full of Lonely People" (Bowie). This second disc is pretty
fine both in the performance achieved and simply in the fact of choosing
to record such classics. More, I say.

Iannis Xenakis        Ensemble Music 2        Mode

I've heard complaints about the ST-X performances and of the pieces
included here, I only have another version of "Akrata" (on the old
Nonesuch release) which does, indeed, strike me as stronger, more
visceral. The other works, "Echange", "Okho", "Xas" and "A la Memoire de
Witold Lutoslawski" are new to me however and appear to work just fine.
Any preferences on these out there? "Okho", for three djembes (low-tuned
African drums) and bass drum is especially appealing.

They've been previously mentioned, but two recent re-releases are
required listening for anybody and everybody: Braxton's "For Alto" and
the AEC's "Les Stances a Sophie". Two extraordinarily great albums.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 09:32:41 -0600

PS: Forgot to mention - the alphabetizing method also provides a cheap
thrill when scanning the racks; I imagine collaborations by adjoining
artists: Autechre and Albert Ayler, Yoko Ono and Roy Orbison, Yo La Tengo
and LaMonte Young... mmm...

Oh, and "classical": alphabetical by composer, then chronological by
composition, then in the case of multiple recordings of favorite pieces, by
preferred performance (too much Mahler!).

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: Fwd: [rumori] consume ground zero!; was: Re: korean music -
Date: 26 Aug 2000 12:08:48 -0400

These liner notes by Otomo were sent to the rumori mailing-list last night.
He mentions the virtuoso Kim Suk Chul.

>X-Sender: [e-mail]
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:02:15 -0700
>To: [e-mail]
>From: Jon Leidecker <[e-mail]>
>Subject: [rumori] consume ground zero!
>Sender: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>
>forgive the cross-post if you're also on plunderphonic, but these liner
>notes are just inspiring.  Many of you have probably already read them but
>as I'm finally listening to the 'consume' trilogy in it's entirety this
>week I'm all on fire with the text at the moment and wanted to share.
>
>
>Consume Ground Zero!
>
>by Yoshihide Otomo
>
>It's easy and maybe even cool to say "to hell with copyright." But of
>course, things aren't really that simple. What exactly is the difference
>between someone using your
>performance on their own CD without your permission and making a load of
>money, and GROUND ZERO sampling a revolution-era Pekinese opera to make a CD
>that DOESN'T make money? It burns me that a Japanese television network
>rotting in money can use my music without my knowing it, and I still don't
>get a cent out of
>it. But as long as a TV network is paying JASRAC (the one and only
>copyright organization in Japan) I'm told it's not illegal. So am I allowed
>to sample that TV channel
>without paying a cent, and make a CD from it? And then, what happens when
>that CD is sampled yet again by Stock, Hausen and Walkman?
>
>The two main reasons for the existence of copyright are this. When a work
>is created by someone, there is ownership in that work. And, if such
>ownership exists, there
>is the question of how to justifiably turn that into money. My problem is
>about the fact that not all forms of creativity can be accredited to a
>single entity. And if I'm
>correct, what about copyright?
>
>In the general flow of things, which do not consist of mere solitary
>products bobbing along but of things sampled and re-sampled, how can
>anybody say for sure who
>created what? The first question needs to be directed to the idea that an
>artistic work is born from a single entity's creativity. And so forth and
>so on. So rather than to go
>on talking about it, the idea is to go ahead and do it.
>
>So it comes to this. GROUND ZERO samples the musical performance of a
>Korean national treasure, Kim Suk Chul. Any artistic purist should fly into
>a rage right
>there. His superhuman playing is without question a product of his own
>creativity, but it could also be that he is in fact a vessel for the voices
>of gods or ancestors. So
>GROUND ZERO takes and samples this brilliant music sacred enough to blow
>away any puny ideas about copyright. Then we will have this remixed by a
>number of
>unique sampling artists and place the two versions on a "chopping board" of
>consumption and sampling. Call it public sampling if you will. It's up to
>you how you cook
>with it. Make it techno or enka or anything you like. What we want to see is
>not style or perfection but something beyond that (that is, if there is
>such a thing). The
>jumble of criticisms and questions that may emerge should outbalance
>today's definition of copyright together with its messy problems and
>questions of creativity. Go
>ahead and butcher this with your own hands. We can talk later.
>
>
>Written in November 1996
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>Rumori, the Detritus.net Discussion List
>to unsubscribe, send mail to [e-mail]
>with "unsubscribe rumori" in the message body.
>----------------------------------------------------
>Rumori list archives & other information are at
>http://detritus.net/contact/rumori
>----------------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell
Date: 26 Aug 2000 00:03:48 -0400


----- Original Message -----

> RIT 14  AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE        Afternoon Tea

Did this already come out?  Or was that a different record?  I thought I saw
something that those five did together.

Oh, and to answer for Jon about Vlad Delay on his label, I *think* Erstwhile
does solely improv, ruling Delay out.  Though maybe that's just what
Erstwhile's specialized in so far.

-Jesse


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies (long)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 12:13:59 EDT

a couple of brief comments of my own on Brian's pickups:

<<Robert Ashley     Automatic Writing   (Lovely)>>

one of my favorite few records of all time, and probably the one I've played
the most of any over the last couple of years. the music is so subtle, yet
insidious.

also, I like to play it for friends, and in the middle of the piece, tell
them that one of my favorite things about it is how it sounds like there's
generic dance music coming from the apartment below. then I pause it, and
they're invariably amazed, since they too had thought that it was from
downstairs. ok, thanks for indulging me....

<<Tom Johnson       An Hour for Piano (Lovely)>>

Brian says:

<<Fascinating work. At least to me--I could
readily see many being bored to tears.>>

count me in the latter group.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ritornell
Date: 26 Aug 2000 12:22:42 EDT


In a message dated 8/26/00 12:18:13 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< > RIT 14  AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE        Afternoon Tea


Did this already come out?  Or was that a different record?  I thought I saw

something that those five did together. >>

it's out in Europe, but not here yet. there's always a few weeks in between
with Mille Plateaux and Ritornell releases. you also might be thinking of the
track they contributed to the Ritornell sampler CD, Maschinelle Strategeme,
which I was underwhelmed by (both the track and the whole sampler).

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Lankin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Favorite Louis Armstrong?
Date: 26 Aug 2000 15:12:07 -0400

And JSP will soon be releasing a 5-CD Jelly Roll Morton for a similarly
inexpensive price.

Alan Lankin
[e-mail]

---
jazzmatazz == http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz


----- Original Message -----
Sent: August 13, 2000 9:29 PM


> [...[ thought I'd add that the four JSPs are now
> available in a box set (one of those where they just took the original
> album and added a case) that I've seen in a large chain for $23, a little
> less than what I actually paid for the first two alone.  JSP also has a
> dirt-cheap box of their Django


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 00:55:49 -0700

I organize my music collection according to what I like to do while
listening to them. (Excuse the preponderence of dangling prepositions):

Music Exclusively For Listening To
Music To Dine To
Music To Make Love To
Music To Have Casual Sex To
Music To Read To
Music To Bathe To
Music To Meditate To
Music To Email To
Music To Dance To
Music To Play When My Family Is Home
Music For Guests Who Are Friends Of My Wife
Music To Play When I Wish The Guests Would Leave
Music To Get Drunk To
Music To Get High To
and so on . . .

Requires buying duplicates or taping copies of some releases.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frith, Haino, Mori cd's
Date: 26 Aug 2000 16:07:39 PDT

I have put some other avant jazz stuff up at eBay. Including things by
Ribot, Frith, Mori, Akchote, Chadbourne, Haino etc.

Seller name schules

Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Tzadik (was: sponsoring)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 21:33:47 -0400

> > Where did you hear that?  That's actually not true.  The radio station
> where
> > I'm MD receives tons of Tzadik releases (and I thank them for it).  And
> I'm
> > almost positive I've seen a Tzadik ad (though it could have been for
> Avant).
> > The one that has the logo and a long list of all the musicians.  I
> wouldn't
> > know about press releases, but the blurbs on the webpage certainly read
> like
> > them.  And you'd figure if someone bothers to write them, they'd send
them
> > out. . .

 I don't know about ads, but Kazunori very specifically told me that they
 don't give out promos to very many people, though your radio station may be
 one.  I've bought all the discs that I've reviewed from them.  Perhaps your
 station does the same.

>
> > I don't understand people's continued insistence that Zorn/Tzadik is so
> DIY
> > and poor.  Zorn does very well, I'm sure, and I wouldn't call an indie
> label
> > that can afford to give $5000 recording advances and fancy artwork on a
> > "tight budget."  Tzadik's success is due in a large part to savvy
> marketing,
> > plain and simple.  It's no accident that the records have a uniform art
> > theme, come in easily-grouped series, and are strongly identified with
> Zorn
> > (if I'm not mistaken, he's listed as "executive producer" for all
> releases).
> > There's plenty of labels that release great music but don't have their
> > records "sought out."  Unfortunately, marketing has quite a bit to do
with
> > it, and Tzadik has done that well.

 Uh, I'm not sure how "savvy marketing" cancels out DIY.  I'm pretty sure
 that his savvy marketing doesn't include getting artists placed on the Sony
 roster, therefore Tzadik is certainly a DIY effort.

 I think.

 Peter



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 21:34:22 -0400

> pop (eg. black sabbath, public enemy)


HAHAHAHAHAHA!
AHHAAHAHAHAHAH!

 That is SOOOOO funny!

I mean, I know you didn't mean for it to be, but
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Peter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 26 Aug 2000 23:27:19 -0400

I use the simple alphabetical, with no organisation within artists. The
one split in my collection is between those that I've listened to at
least once and those that I haven't. To my somewhat chagrin, I now appear
to have more of the latter.

My boxed sets are together on a separate shelf, along with single discs
(such as Trey Gunn's "The Third Star") which are too tall for my normal
shelves.

My (listened-to) collections/compilations are together, but in no order.
The same is true of my growing collection of 3" CDs, which are in a
diskette holder.

Back when I had lotsa records (some 2000, almost all now disappeared),
I shelved them right to left, the reverse of the usual, since that
meant that when I turned my head to read the spines, the titles were
in alphabetical order, top down.

I've started using a rather good cataloging program for Windows, Catraxx,
to track my collection. It's gonna take a while: right now, I have 496
catalogued, which gets me through "K" of those I've listened to, except
for about 100 that weren't CDDB. Yeesh.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: RE: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 01:30:50 -0400

records collection = penis size ?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 06:27:53 GMT




----Original Message Follows----

records collection = penis size ?


-
a surrogate for a lack thereof.  (Everything is always "lack" in
psychoanalysis--Freud was never abundant apparently.) Or rather, a fair
estimate of a primal obsession.

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 11:32:11 GMT

Hey,

>records collection = penis size ?

Naturally! That's why I prefer vinyl to CDs. Makes bigger impact.

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 09:48:18 -0400

> I've started using a rather good cataloging program for Windows, Catraxx,
> to track my collection. It's gonna take a while: right now, I have 496
> catalogued, which gets me through "K" of those I've listened to, except
> for about 100 that weren't CDDB. Yeesh.


I hope you entered em.  Contribute to the world's only CD research library.
It always gives me a thrill when I have a CD that's not in there and I get
to make the first entry.  Some sort of Polar Explorer rush.

Peter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 10:34:16 -0400

The Aquarius Records mailings have interesting sounding descriptions of some underground metal & Merzbow puts in a good word in The Wire.  But does anybody know if there is actually any of this that really lives up to that?  I listen to the metal shows periodically on local radio and they do play a lot of black/death/underground metal but it all seems so unimaginative and tedious.  Is there better out there?

LT

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 11:53:13 -0400

I am by no means an expert on the underground stuff that AQ talks about.  I would also like to hear some of it that they hype so well.

Some friends convinced me to try early Slayer, Venom, Metallica (well, only some tracks on Kill 'em All), but what really got me converted to Black Metal was hearing Napalm Death's "Scum" and Carcass's "Reek of Putrefaction"  I unqualifiedly (is that a word?) recommend these records as listenable and strange worlds to visit, but I don't live there.

I kinda like Burzum, Morbid Angel, and Pan.Thy.Monium.  I've yet to find any Mayhem, who are supposed to be the pinnacle of black metal.


matt

[e-mail] wrote:

> The Aquarius Records mailings have interesting sounding descriptions of some underground metal & Merzbow puts in a good word in The Wire.  But does anybody know if there is actually any of this that really lives up to that?  I listen to the metal shows periodically on local radio and they do play a lot of black/death/underground metal but it all seems so unimaginative and tedious.  Is there better out there?
>
> LT
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: David Bowie/Joey Baron ?
Date: 27 Aug 2000 12:46:04 -0400

Hello list,

    being a fan of David Bowie, I've had the "Outside" CD for a long time, and
I was just watching it and realized that a Joey Barron plays drums ... I
imagine this is the same Joey Baron we all know.

    So now I'm looking for a Joey Baron discography because I'm curious where
he has played.  Hope you can help me with this.

Thanks

Neil H. Enet
------------

NP. Cocteau Twins - Garlands


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 13:49:19 -0400 (EDT)

My "golden" rule is to not file the CD unless I've
listened to it at least twice -- to get a feel of how
it sounds. That way I have some sort of aural memory
when I want to pull it out again.

That works well, except when I buy a lot at once (like
the 14 I just brought back from NYC). Luckily I have a
"boom box" in the kitchen and a CD player in this
computer.

For most of us, though, I'd say the biggest problem
isn't organization, but space. With 600 plus CDs, not
to mention thousands of LPs and about 200 casettes,
the filing space near the stereo is getting a little
crowded. Not to mention all the books that have to be
filed around there as well.

Ken Waxman

(N.P. AMM To Hear and Back Again --won't many of their
laid back fans be surprised when they put this on and
find it's an "energy" blow out a la Trane and Ali)

--- Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I use the simple alphabetical, with no organisation
> within artists. The one split in my collection is
between those that I've listened to at least once and
those that I haven't. To my somewhatchagrin, I now
appear to have more of the latter.

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 13:15:15 -0400

On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 09:48:18AM -0400, Peter Risser wrote:
> > I've started using a rather good cataloging program for Windows, Catraxx,
> > to track my collection. It's gonna take a while: right now, I have 496
> > catalogued, which gets me through "K" of those I've listened to, except
> > for about 100 that weren't CDDB. Yeesh.
>
>
> I hope you entered em.  Contribute to the world's only CD research library.
> It always gives me a thrill when I have a CD that's not in there and I get
> to make the first entry.  Some sort of Polar Explorer rush.

I've only entered a few -- but I've moved those that were not yet in
there into a separate pile, so that I can enter them when I have time
to breathe.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 14:39:07 EDT

I believe the world is coming to and end.  I recently purchased David
Sanborn's "Another Hand" (1991) due to the fact that is has Frisell, Ribot,
Baron, Tronzo, Greg Cohen, Charlie Haden, and a few other whom I never in a
million years would have guessed were on a Sanborn album (There's even a
special thanks to Zorn amongst others who's names are so distant from
Sanborn's music and sound).  It is quite interesting because for the most
part everyone sounds like themselves (I've always thought that Sanborn is a
skilled musician even though I hate his music.)  While most of the album
sounds a cruel and disturbing joke of splicing Sanborn and the names
mentioned earlier there is something more disturbing.  I love on of the songs
and EVERYONE's playing on it!  Greg Cohen arranges a medley of Prayer for
Charlie, from the Devil at Four O' Clock, and The Lonely, from the Twilight
Zone.  Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?  I was
wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album.
    Also a member was looking for info on Joey Baron so these sights should
help.


Discography:

http://www.songtone.com/Artists/Baron (Songtone's Joey Baron page)

http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet/baron.htm (semi complete through 1995 I
think)

http://www.ejn.it/mus/baron.htm (Selected Discography and Bio)


Misc. Links:
http://www.musicsearcher.com/b/Baron,Joey.php3  (links to Baron related sites)

http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/ns-sym/ns-sym-baron.html  (a wonderful
lecture from 1994)

http://www.drumweb.com/drummerf.shtml (links to many drummers)

                                                        Aaron Solomon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 14:56:37 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:
  Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?  I was
> wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album.

I don't know the album in question, but Sanborn's roots go back to St.
Louis. I think, where he played as a youth with members of that city's
Black Artist Group including Hemphill and Lester Bowie. When he hosted
that (very) late night music program on NBC (Night Music, right?), Zorn
appeared and Sanborn joined him for a tear through of a Zorn piece
(Roadrunner?). So, yeah, he has some perhaps unexpected roots.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Martin Jagodic - Tempo Furioso (on antennaradio)

PS--Incidentally, caught Eskelin's trio w/Parker and Black last
night--extremely fine! Stronger live than on disc. Catch 'em if they're
nearby!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 23:59:54 -0700

>>>Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?<<<

Sandborn's TV Show "Night Music" from a few years back was a pretty
surprising showcase (at times) for the music we know and love.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:01:46 EDT


In a message dated 8/27/00 2:57:15 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I don't know the album in question, but Sanborn's roots go back to St.
Louis. I think, where he played as a youth with members of that city's
Black Artist Group including Hemphill and Lester Bowie. When he hosted
that (very) late night music program on NBC (Night Music, right?), Zorn
appeared and Sanborn joined him for a tear through of a Zorn piece
(Roadrunner?). So, yeah, he has some perhaps unexpected roots. >>

Sanborn also appears (and definitely holds his own) on Tim Berne's Hemphill
tribute CD, Diminutive Mysteries (mostly Hemphill) (JMT).

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: genres
Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:06:53 -0500


ah, hell, i'll confess...

after coming to the realization that the more catagories you have, the more
headaches you have, i stripped down to two sections a coupla years ago: vocal
and instrumental. that caused a couple curiosities (eugene chadbourne being
divided, haino being hard to peg (i eventually decided that, for me, his music
wasn't 'vocally-driven' and put him in with the instrumentalists).

this year, though, i switched again, putting my records in line with my Grand
Scheme of All Music, something i've hinted at here before but, inexplicably,
have never been queried on. my cds are now divided into the Three True Divisions
of Music, that being 'improvised', 'through-composed' and 'folk.' ('folk' being
a sort of peasant term for any music that people might sing the lyrics along
with, stomp their feet, bang their heads, etc. much of what many foolish people
term 'world music' is included here, for example, as well as country, blues,
rock, etc.)

for years, my 1000s or whatever were simply arranged alphabetically. but as the
collection swelled and i ended up with two nonmatching shelves and a large
cabinet of drawers, i grew annoyed with the scattershot way the alphabet was
being treated.

i've actually removed a few into very small catagories like spoken word.
compositions for specific purposes are also segregated within 'through-
composed,' like film soundtracks, radio plays, stageplays and, my favorite,
music composed for fashion shows (the only two in this section are by hoppy
kamiyama and seigen ono (so what's up with runway shows in japan, anyway?)).

i've known people to do the color-of-spine scheme (but what do you do with black
saint releases?). i also had a friend who did them by producer. tricky, but end
result is he now knows who produced every rock record in the world.

if i ever bother to rearrange again (unlikely) i think i'd like to do a
geographic point-of-origin sorta thing.

lovers and roommates never quite having understood, it's nice to chat here --
damn watta buncha obsessive freaks.

np: pantychrist

ps: what avant-garde list, how do i find it and is it worth my time? same
questions for the frith list i've heard about. at this point i'm more into
'discussion' than 'update' sortsa lists.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mailing lists (was: genres)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 19:36:00 GMT


>ps: what avant-garde list, how do i find it and is it worth my time? >same
>questions for the frith list i've heard about. at this point i'm >more into
>'discussion' than 'update' sortsa lists.

Don't know anything about the avant-garde list. Would also be interested to
hear more.
The Frith list is great, though not very active. Particulary interesting
because Frith himself is very frequent poster. He's been away for a while,
but has just returned. If Zorn also took the time to write on this list we'd
all be without many bad rumors and speculations. Frith is doing a great job
taking care of this on his list!

Check it out: www.fredfrith.com

JONAS

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:56:59 EDT

Gorguts - Obscura
Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board
Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple  - Fear, Emptiness,
Despair is the best
Cryptopsy - Whisper Supremacy

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sanborn/Butterfield
Date: 27 Aug 2000 21:58:58 +0200

>(I've always thought that Sanborn is a
> skilled musician even though I hate his music.)


Somebody remembers fantastic Sanborn's solo in "In My Own Dream" recorded in
1968 with Paul Butterfield's Band ??


Jerzy

NP : Ute Lemper - City of Strangers


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 16:03:54 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/00 2:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I believe the world is coming to and end.  I recently purchased David
 Sanborn's "Another Hand" (1991) due to the fact that is has Frisell, Ribot,
 Baron, Tronzo, Greg Cohen, Charlie Haden, and a few other whom I never in a
 million years would have guessed were on a Sanborn album (There's even a
 special thanks to Zorn amongst others who's names are so distant from
 Sanborn's music and sound) >>


Surely some people here have/have heard Diminuitive Mysteries (JMT), the Tim
Berne Hemphill-written 'tribute' album, with Sanborn all over it?  He acquits
himself wonderfully, and their sounds are not at all far apart.  Ducret, Hank
Roberts and Joey Baron round out the band, and Dresser and Herb Robertson
guest on the only non-Hemphill-penned tune.

BTW, Herb Robertson's Certified came out around this time, also on JMT.  Its
probably a long shot, but grab it if you see it used anywhere; its also great.

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: genres-mailing lists
Date: 27 Aug 2000 17:08:15 EDT


 In a message dated 8/27/00 12:15:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

 <<
  ps: what avant-garde list, how do i find it and is it worth my time? same
  questions for the frith list i've heard about. at this point i'm more into
  'discussion' than 'update' sortsa lists.
   >>

 This list can be subscribed to at egroups.com.  It generally focuses on free
jazz and has many thoughtful contributors.  Many have migrated over here(I
also resubscribed.)  It can come in digest form so you won't be bombarded in
your mailbox.  Also at egroups.com is Feigenbaum's avant-progressive mailing
list which focuses on Magma, Japanese music,  and things generally seen in a
Wayside catalogue.  This is also very worthwhile.
    John Threadgould

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 17:20:21 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/00 2:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<(I've always thought that Sanborn is a
 skilled musician even though I hate his music.)   >>

Right on the money. He's done some outstanding work on several recordings
with Gil Evans' band, well worth checking out.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Antonio_Mart=EDn?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 23:29:41 +0200

  "Another hand" is a wonderful record.

  Joey Baron is trying to do the same thing with his records.
"Down Home" it=B4s an example. It sounds exactly like "another
hand", but I think that the problem is that Sanborn is better than
Arthur Blythe, then Baron must to try another way and not copy.


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 8:39 PM


> I believe the world is coming to and end.  I recently purchased David
> Sanborn's "Another Hand" (1991) due to the fact that is has Frisell, Ri=
bot,
> Baron, Tronzo, Greg Cohen, Charlie Haden, and a few other whom I never =
in a
> million years would have guessed were on a Sanborn album (There's even =
a
> special thanks to Zorn amongst others who's names are so distant from
> Sanborn's music and sound).  It is quite interesting because for the mo=
st
> part everyone sounds like themselves (I've always thought that Sanborn =
is a
> skilled musician even though I hate his music.)  While most of the albu=
m
> sounds a cruel and disturbing joke of splicing Sanborn and the names
> mentioned earlier there is something more disturbing.  I love on of the=
 songs
> and EVERYONE's playing on it!  Greg Cohen arranges a medley of Prayer f=
or
> Charlie, from the Devil at Four O' Clock, and The Lonely, from the Twil=
ight
> Zone.  Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?  I w=
as
> wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album.
>     Also a member was looking for info on Joey Baron so these sights sh=
ould
> help.
>
>
> Discography:
>
> http://www.songtone.com/Artists/Baron (Songtone's Joey Baron page)
>
> http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet/baron.htm (semi complete through 19=
95 I
> think)
>
> http://www.ejn.it/mus/baron.htm (Selected Discography and Bio)
>
>
> Misc. Links:
> http://www.musicsearcher.com/b/Baron,Joey.php3  (links to Baron related=
 sites)
>
> http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/ns-sym/ns-sym-baron.html  (a wonder=
ful
> lecture from 1994)
>
> http://www.drumweb.com/drummerf.shtml (links to many drummers)
>
>                                                         Aaron Solomon
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres-mailing lists
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:14:28 -0400

Hopefully I'm not the only one with this question. I hate to miss a source.

Re: "Also at egroups.com is Feigenbaum's avant-progressive mailing
list which focuses on Magma, Japanese music,  and things generally seen in a
Wayside catalogue. "

What's a
Wayside catalogue.?

Yours in ignorance,

Matt




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wayside
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:29:28 -0400

At 06:14 PM 8/27/00 -0400, Matt Laferty wrote:
>Hopefully I'm not the only one with this question. I hate to miss a source.
>
>Re: "Also at egroups.com is Feigenbaum's avant-progressive mailing
>list which focuses on Magma, Japanese music,  and things generally seen in a
>Wayside catalogue. "
>
>What's a
>Wayside catalogue.?

To save Steve F. the trouble, Wayside is one of the best and longest
running mail order places in the biz (predating the internet by a decade or
so), specializing in progressive rock from all over, but also an official
mail order source for Tzadik, official US distributor of ReR, house their
own label (Cuneiform), and carry many other great labels whom you wouldn't
necessarily put in the progrock bucket.  They annually publish a green
catalogue of items they think they can keep in stock all year, plus three
updates of specials, rarities, etc.  All the information is also available
on the web at http://www.waysidemusic.com.

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:35:30 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/00 3:57:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Gorguts - Obscura >>

This is a *great* CD, agreed.  Avant-garde metal at its best.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: genres-mailing lists
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:41:05 EDT

The link for the Avant-Garde list as well as many other jazz lists can be
found here:
http://msnyder.dragonfire.net/mailinglists.htm

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 15:47:16 -0700

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 12:57 PM

> Gorguts - Obscura
> Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board
> Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple  - Fear,
> Emptiness,
> Despair is the best
> Cryptopsy - Whisper Supremacy

Funny, my list would have looked almost exactly like this! Except that I'd
add Meshuggah's "Chaosphere." (I think it was Steve Smith who kept going on
and on about Meshuggah and Gorguts.) I'd also recommend Slayer's "South of
Heaven." And for some gleefully over-the-top stuff, Cradle of Filth's... I
can't remember the title, it's the one with the half-naked woman on the
cover...

Later,
Ben

np: scott walker, "it's raining today"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:54:25 -0400 (EDT)

"Downtown" is a state of mind. Sanborn first came to
prominence playing in the Butterfield Blues Band.
See/hear The Resurrection of Pigboy Crabshaw'
(Elektra), which also features the late AACM jazz
drummer Phil Wilson.

He's also featured on Tim Berne's saxophone salute to
Julius Hemphill.

Don't look for him playing Tonic any time soon,
though.

Ken Waxman



Does David have some Downtown hidden
> somewhere deep inside?

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Shlomo Weintraub <[e-mail]>
Subject: live Estradasphere MP3s!
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:15:33 +0200

hi,
I found this link on the www.estradaphere.com homepage .......... go
ahead downloading (and uploading.. maybe...)

Karl's FTP(ftp://hunnahpu.myip.org login: estrada, password: sphere)
A fan archive of live Estradasphere MP3s!

tsch=F6 mit =F6 shlomo


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:21:15 -0500

Last week I mentioned that I'd list some of the many composers &
performers who've been using MAX and other modular/interactive
software programs in live electronic performances long before the
current crop of laptop improvisers. Sorry it took awhile to get back
to this - here's a few things to check out:

Most of the recordings on the American (not the Canadian label with
the same name) Artifact label (including the HUB, it's member
musicians, Larry Polansky, Jim Horton, & others) are relevant here
(many early releases use home-brew software programs that were
precursors to MIDI,let alone MAX, et al) <http://www.artifact.com/>
and most of the electronic composers associated with the composer
collective Frog Peak (again, the earlier works use earlier systems)
<http://www.frogpeak.org/>.

Specific composers who aren't represented on the above labels include
Alvin Curran  (recent eletronic works)
<http://ella.mills.edu/ACAD_INFO/MUS/ACURRAN/Curran.homepage.html>,
Karlheinz Essl <http://www.essl.at/>, George Lewis
<http://orpheus-1.ucsd.edu/dept.music/musicdept/lewis.html>, Laurie
Spiegel <http://www.dorsai.org/~spiegel/>, Carl Stone
<http://www.sukothai.com/>. Macintosh users can download working
samples from The Essl & Spiegel sites (Lexikon-Sonate & Music Mouse,
respectively).

There's also related work by earlier composers (as often as not also
made using homebrew software rather than MAX, etc.) using small
computer systems with a table full of electronics like David Behrman
<http://www.lovely.com/bios/behrman.html>, Joel Chadabe
<http://www.cdemusic.org/artists/chadabe.html>, Jerry Hunt
<http://members.aol.com/huntjerry/>, Gordon Mumma
<http://www.lovely.com/bios/mumma.html>, David Tudor
<http://www.emf.org/tudor/>, etc.

More than anyone really wanted to know, I'm sure, but hey.

Bests,

Herb
--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Called out
Date: 27 Aug 2000 18:21:15 -0500

When I lived in Seattle, Periplum wasn't a bedroom label, but here in
Fort Worth it is, til we finally move.

Right now there are six Periplum CDs out, with about lots more in the
works. This year  a lot of things were delayed by our move to the
Metroplex.

Out now are

P0010 Suspended Music: compositions by Pauline Oliveros & Ellen
Fullman performed collectively by Deep Listening Band (Oliveros,
Stuart Dempster & David Gamper) & Fullman's Long String Instrument
(about 100 strings each about 90 feet long for this performance
played by Fullman, Elise Gould & Nigel Jacobs)

P0020 Burning Water:  interactive computer music created by Martin
Bartlett, with performances by Peter Hannan - alto recorder; George E
Lewis - trombone; Frances-Marie Uitti  - cello; & Bartlett - live
electronics & programming

P0030 Catacombs of Yucatan: improvisations and compositions for
home-made instruments by Dan Senn

P0040 Archipelago: ambient/improv by LAND, a collective band
including Lesli Dalaba, Jeff Greinke, Dennis  Rea & others

P0050 Clamourous Alphabet: collaboration by clarinetist/composer
Francois Houle & poet Catriona Strang

P0060 Sound Without Picture: a series of electro-acoustic pieces by
Nicolas Collins that deal with the senses

Work on upcoming releases has been delayed by our move to the
Metroplex, but at least some of the following CDs will be out this
fall with the rest out in winter 2001

Oo-ee: a set of solo works for flute commissioned by Paul Taub,
composers include Janice Giteck, Robin Holcomb, Bun-Ching Lam, David
Mahler, Julian Priester and others

Walking by Byron Au Yong: evocative compositions for combinations of
Western and Asian instruments

Soliloquy by Philip Arnautoff:  a concert-length work for an
instrument Arnautoff built that's a modification of Harry Partch's
harmonic canon

Otis Spann by Wayne Horvitz: a chamber work for flute, clarinet,
cello & violin, as well as solos and duets with Wayne for these
instruments

New Songs: a series of songs for voice & piano performed by Ann Obery
& David Mahler, composers include John Luther Adams, Peter Garland,
Robin Holcomb, David Mahler, Maggi Payne, Susan Stenger and others

--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 16:45:19 -0700

At 3:47 PM 8/27/00, Benito Vergara wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [e-mail]
>> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 12:57 PM
>
>> Gorguts - Obscura
>> Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board
>> Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple  - Fear,
>> Emptiness,
>> Despair is the best
>> Cryptopsy - Whisper Supremacy
>
>Funny, my list would have looked almost exactly like this! Except that I'd
>add Meshuggah's "Chaosphere." (I think it was Steve Smith who kept going on
>and on about Meshuggah and Gorguts.) I'd also recommend Slayer's "South of
>Heaven." And for some gleefully over-the-top stuff, Cradle of Filth's... I
>can't remember the title, it's the one with the half-naked woman on the
>cover...
>
Must second the recommendation for Meshuggah! Chaosphere is perhaps my
alltime favorite metal album. Their earlier disc Destroy Erase Improve
works in some very effective Holdsworth/Terje Rypdal-ish fusion.

Also, I'd have to recommend Strapping Young Lad. Not as complex as
Meshuggah, but with a hilarous and ironic sense of humor, and some truly
inspired hooks. "City" is probably their best record, but "Heavy as a
Really Heavy Thing" and the live "No Sleep Till Bedtime" are worth it just
for the titles!

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 04:47:31 -0700

What genre are God and Godflesh?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 19:01:49 -0400

On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 02:39:07PM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:

> Zone.  Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?  I was
> wondering if anyone else had opinions of this album.

The secret link, if memory serves, is that the album was produced by
Hal Willner, who also put together similar amazing aggregates as Music
Directory for "Night Music", which Sanborn hosted, and the tribute
series that included "That's The Way I Feel Now (Monk)", "Amacord Nino
Rota", "Stay Awake (Disney)", and other they-did-what? classics.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: need chadbourne material
Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:22:54 -0400

Hi,  I'm running Will York's interview with Chadbourne in my zine
Adventures In Sound and thought it would be nice to have an accompanying
review or two.  Somebody had contacted me about a live review of a
Chadbourne appearance with a Finnish (Swedish?) folk band but I've lost the
message.  I'd also be greatly interested in something about his book, the
"LSDC&W" reissue or the new Avant collaboration.  Or if you have other
ideas please contact me off list.

Thanks, Lang

Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: theory.org.uk trading cards
Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:30:59 -0400

http://www.theory.org.uk/cards/


Off topic sure (we're allowed two per year right?) but still of interest to
many Zornlisters.



Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:38:54 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/00 6:51:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Funny, my list would have looked almost exactly like this! Except that I'd
 add Meshuggah's "Chaosphere." (I think it was Steve Smith who kept going on
 and on about Meshuggah and Gorguts.) I'd also recommend Slayer's "South of
 Heaven." And for some gleefully over-the-top stuff, Cradle of Filth's... I
 can't remember the title, it's the one with the half-naked woman on the
 cover... >>

I knew I forgot something!  I'd but both of Meshuggah's on there, actually.
Also, a band called Human Remains put out an EP called 'Using Sickness as a
Hero' which is very good, though only 17 minutes long.

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Delay/"Automatic Writing"/Dean Roberts?
Date: 27 Aug 2000 20:40:14 -0600


Bill Wrote:
>I'm particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days.  I wonder if Jon
>has thought about working with him.

ME TOO!.  (interested in him that is).  I bought "entain" (Mille Plateaux)
out of curiousity...listened to it once and enjoyed it well enough but
couldn't form an opinion...really interesting sounds but I couldn't figure
out if the disc was much more than an enjoyable undulating soundscape.  I
listened again and still had about the same reaction.  I kept listening to
it simply because I enjoyed the sounds but eventually I began to get a feel
for the whole album.  I really think it is one long album...not 5 tracks.
then I listened louder and louder.  it got better and better.  I think that
the album is carefully thought out and rather effective.

People who can handle really slowly evolving music might enjoy this.
It reminds me of Automatic Writing a bit.  The breathing, voices, mumblings
that Delay hides under the sounds are really captivating and at times almost
erotic.  Different from the disturbing feeling that the voices in automatic
writing transmit. Entain is very captivating but Automatic writing is
incredible. If you haven't heard it please do.

FWIW- I also bought a copy of Delay's "Multila" because I liked "Entain" so
much but Multila hasn't grown on me much at all.

For those who like entain I'd recommend Plastikman (richie Hawtin)'s album
"Consumed".  I like that one a bunch too although all I have is a burned
copy and badly burned at that...there are short silences between tracks
which are a bit frustrating.

Jon Wrote:
>also, if you haven't heard Dean's Ritornell release yet, you should.

I'd be curious to hear some comments his solo releases.  I haven't heard any
of his music.  I saw "All Cracked Media" at Forced Exposure which I thought
was on Mille Plateaux.  Is this the disc you're refering to Jon?  The only
other one I've seen listed is "Moth Park: Soundtracks to Utopia" on a New
Zealand label.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:43:23 -0400

Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or
other.


> >>>Does David have some Downtown hidden somewhere deep inside?<<<
>
> Sandborn's TV Show "Night Music" from a few years back was a pretty
> surprising showcase (at times) for the music we know and love.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:01:06 -0400

On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 10:43:23PM -0400, Peter Risser wrote:
> Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or
> other.

They useta have them on BET on Jazz twice daily. I suspect they'll
eventually return.

Though usually horribly laden with Smoooooooth Jazz, the channel has
some surprises. Right now I'm watching "Live at the Knitting Factory"
with Lee Ranaldo/William Hooker duets and the Matthew Shipp Trio.
A good show, though week after week the tape appears to snarl and
glitch.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Delay/Dean Roberts?
Date: 27 Aug 2000 22:56:33 EDT

Vladislav Delay fans might be interested in checking this out:

<<for anyone interested in downloading a 30 meg live set from vladislav

delay.. go to:


http://www.native-instruments.com/english/1_news/6_lab.html>>

<<I saw "All Cracked Media" at Forced Exposure which I thought
was on Mille Plateaux.  Is this the disc you're refering to Jon?>>

no, All Cracked Medias is on Mille Plateaux and is from 1998. then early this
year, he released And the Black Moths Play The Grand Cinema on Ritornell
which is the CD I was referring to.

<<I'd be curious to hear some comments on his solo releases.  I haven't heard
any
of his music.>>

he's very chameleon-like, working in numerous different contexts. for
instance, earlier this week, I saw him play the harmonium with Tony Conrad
and Tim Barnes at the Angus MacLise CD release party. I'm still waiting to
hear the recording of his concert with Otomo in New Zealand earlier this
year, which the audience supposedly hated. I'd suggest starting with either
the Mille Plateaux one (which is all-instrumental, and very good, although it
took a few listens to grow on me) or the Ritornell one (which as I said in
the last post, has some vocals). I actually think that Aluminium may be his
most fully realized project yet, but I'm obviously biased.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "robert ludington" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Music library(was: genres) (long-ish)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 03:00:16 GMT

Fellow Zornsters,

   I've come to appreciate the vast amount of wisedom and expertise on this
list as i've mainly lurked(posted & asked for help a few times) for a couple
of years, and first off i want to thank everyone for that & their help.  I
also wanted to submit an idea i've been mulling over for quite some time
now, pretty much every spare second i get when not working, or doing school
stuff, and i was wondering if i could get people's opnions on it...

   Although it might not seem it, it is related to the Zorn-list mainly
because one of the discussions on here about music
collections/libraries(last fall was it?) is what sparked the idea.
   Basically i am really dissapointed by both the lack of music in public
libraries and the condition they are usually in, and also that many people
cannot seem to find good homes for their old vinyl as the replace it with
CD's.... and also the meager few dollars one gets for used CD's, especially
of the more 'out' variety(ever try explaining why you feel you deserve more
than $1.50 for a Eugene Chadborne cd & it's worth, even though you don't
particularly want that album anymore?)
   So anyhow, i was thinking that as awesome as it is that alot of people
support their favorite artists, and like Zorn, have huge record collections,
i thought why not try to create a *public* library of this sort,
concentrating strictly on music(and maybe a few music related books/video's)
and also try to specialize in rare traditional jazz/avant/indie
rock/classical/etc??  This way everyone could share & benifit from it, and
hear music that they wouldn't normally be exposed too, and check it out for
a few weeks & maybe get turned on so that they are buying albums of this
artist & related ones?
        I've tried discussing this idea with friends, kids my age and gotten
enthusiastic responses, but no real constructive critisism on how i might
improve my plan, or get it started, etc... so again, i figure i would turn
to the list since i've gotten such great response to posts before.... and
yeah, i do realize a few problems already (besides funding, which i would
want to try to get a 'non-proft' status)... problems like theft, the
records/CDs comming back in bad condition, and that some people/artists
might argue that it encourages copyright infringement(ie: someone borrows an
album, likes it, then tapes it & brings the album back & never needs to buy
a copy).

All appoligies if this isn't list-related enough to warrent discussion, i
guess if not & someone has any comments, please send them to me privately.

well, thanks for reading this & i hope that i do get some response,
~rob~
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sh" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sixun
Date: 28 Aug 2000 00:36:36 -0300

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C01088.05C3F960
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was reading an interview with Gary Willis recently, and in it, the =
interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun.  A search for them or their =
records returned no responses.  Anyone got some info for me?  Thanks.

Scott

------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C01088.05C3F960
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was reading an interview with Gary Willis =
recently, and in=20
it, the interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun.  A search for =
them or=20
their records returned no responses.  Anyone got some info for =
me? =20
Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Scott</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C01088.05C3F960--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brad Shepik
Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:35:38 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01105.9DA1A8E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A friend of mine played me a CD with Brad Shepik playing mostly acoustic =
guitar with an accordion and bass (played by Tony Scherr), it was a more =
'traditional'=20

------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01105.9DA1A8E0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A friend of mine played me a CD with =
Brad Shepik=20
playing mostly acoustic guitar with an accordion and bass (played by =
Tony=20
Scherr), it was a more 'traditional' </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01105.9DA1A8E0--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brad Shepik (continued)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:42:32 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C01106.948B3180
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry, hit the wrong key and the message somehow sent itself...

Anyway, the CD I was talking about had a more 'traditional' Russian =
flavour even though the tunes were mostly originals by the accordionist =
and Shepik. Anyway, I have looked around quite a bit for Shepik stuff =
and didn't know he did this kind of thing. So firstly, does anyone know =
of recordings such as this one which feature Shepik? And secondly does =
anyone have any recommendations of his other work (aside from Pachora =
and Tiny Bell Trio)?

------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C01106.948B3180
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry, hit the wrong key and the =
message somehow=20
sent itself...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyway, the CD I was talking =
about had a more=20
'traditional' Russian flavour even though the tunes were mostly =
originals by the=20
accordionist and Shepik. Anyway, I have looked around quite a bit for =
Shepik=20
stuff and didn't know he did this kind of thing. So firstly, does anyone =
know of=20
recordings such as this one which feature Shepik? And secondly does =
anyone have=20
any recommendations of his other work (aside from Pachora and Tiny Bell=20
Trio)?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C01106.948B3180--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brad Shepik (continued)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:21:22 -0400

Hello Julian,

It's absolutely mysterious thing but I just finished to listen this
CD!

It is trio "Tridruga" with Yuri Lemeshev on accordion and Tony Scherr
on bass balalaika and Brad on acoustic guitar.

"Tridruga" ("tri druga" actually) means "three friends" in Russian.

Lemeshev played in lots of Soviet groups and bands even in "Plamia"
("flame") which was very famous pop band. He played keyboards there
though.

The self titled CD (Love Slave Records LVS 103, http://www.lvslv.com/)
contains several tunes by Brad and Yuri and one by Alfred Schnittke.
All of them remind me of Soviet film music of sixties and seventies.
They are very mellow, romantic and beautiful. They are performed in
kind of sophisticated manner though.


I heard Shepik with his own quinet (Brad Shepik - guitar,saz; Peter
Epstein - saxophones; Fima Ephron - bass; Mike Sarin - drums; Seido
Salifoski: dumbeks, percussion) and it was very interesting. It was
the presentation of his new CD "The Well" (Songlines). I think you
should pay attention to this project as well as to Matt Dariau's
Paradox Trio with Matt on reeds, Rufus Cappadocia on cello and Seido
Salifoski on dumbeks and percussion.


Monday, August 28, 2000, you wrote to me:

J> Anyway, the CD I was talking about had a more 'traditional' Russian
J> flavour even though the tunes were mostly originals by the
J> accordionist and Shepik. Anyway, I have looked around quite a bit
J> for Shepik stuff and didn't know he did this kind of thing. So
J> firstly, does anyone know of recordings such as this one which
J> feature Shepik? And secondly does anyone have any recommendations
J> of his other work (aside from Pachora and Tiny Bell Trio)?

--
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 02:40:38 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/00 10:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I knew I forgot something!  I'd but both of Meshuggah's on there,
actually.
 Also, a band called Human Remains put out an EP called 'Using Sickness as a
 Hero' which is very good, though only 17 minutes long. >>

Also check out Pan-Thy-Monium for some great Holdsworth-styled fretwork in a
metal setting.  I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too, but that CD is
long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find.  There's also a great CD
out by the band Gordian Knot that features the monster guitarist from
Watchtower- yet another great tech-metal outfit.  Did I mention Spastic
Ink...?

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: taj mahal travellers 1971
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:58:45 CDT

Has this release been discussed?

TAJ MAHAL TRAVELLERS, THE
Title: Live Stockholm July 1971
Label: DRONE SYNDICATE (SWEDEN)
Format: 2CD

I've heard great things about the 1974 concert on P-Vine, though the price
tag creeps me out a bit.  Is the 1971 recording anywhere near as good?

Thanks much,

----s

Sorry for cross postings.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: The sound of sun city girls
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:13:35 +0200

Hello,

I noticed from mailing lists (DMG, Forced exposure, Other Music) that the
"sun city girls" have a reissue of their albums.

Now, can anybody on this list explain how these persons sound like? They
seem to use the "normal" jazz instruments (upright bass, ...), but somehow I
suspect that they don't play it the normal way, but play a more "out" jazz.

Is this correct?

Thanks for the help in advance,

Best wishes,

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal: black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:09:00 +0200


[e-mail] said:
> Dillinger Escape Plan - Under the Running Board
> Napalm Death - most of 'em, except for the last couple  - Fear, Emptiness,
> Despair is the best

Good recommendations, on the Napalm Death tip I'd like to add that the Peel
Sessions are really worth tracking down. Early Earache stuff is good (Carcass,
Bolt Thrower, etc.) And another Aquarius recommended record that I like a lot
is Discordance Axis "The Inaliable Dreamless" (not sure about the title... it
comes in a DVD box). But it's grindcore rather than blackmetal, though.
--
Julien



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The sound of sun city girls
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:15:12 +0200

IMHO they're completely screwed up players who play all kinds of stuff
from dreadful straight country ballads to all-out shrieking noise.
I never managed to pick up the right albums (ie the latter) but the Wire
had a thorough analysis of their output what, two years back?
If nobody comes up with the reference I may be able to dig it up

Anyway, I guess I'd like some recommendations too.

Stephane

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Montag, 28. August 2000 09:13


> I noticed from mailing lists (DMG, Forced exposure, Other Music) that the
> "sun city girls" have a reissue of their albums.
>
> Now, can anybody on this list explain how these persons sound like? They
> seem to use the "normal" jazz instruments (upright bass, ...), but somehow
I
> suspect that they don't play it the normal way, but play a more "out"
jazz.
>
> Is this correct?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sixun
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:30:49 +0200


[e-mail] said:
> I was reading an interview with Gary Willis recently, and in it, the
> interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun.  A search for them or their
> records returned no responses.  Anyone got some info for me?

This is probably the best example of the terrible fusion plague that was
rampant in France in the late 80's/early 90's... Sixun, Uzeb and their cohorts
were the purveyors of some of the worst outrages against music ever committed.
Since this trend was unexplicably popular at one point, it was really easy to
come by their stuff... if your local record store has one of those 'jazz rock'
bins you might be able to find them. I'd recommend listening to them at least
once to get an idea of how bad it was.

--
Julien



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Unpopular Knitting Factory
Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:29:28 GMT

Hello,

I recently asked for the John Lurie letter about the Knitting Factory and
Marcin kindly sent it to me. I read it, thought it was very funny, but also
thought it was some kind of joke.
However, Marcin also told me that apparantly it was quite serious! Knitting
Factory actually has become extremely unpopular among Zorn, Lurie and the
rest of the people discussed on this list.

So my question is, what happened!? Last I heard, everybody was very happy
about Knitting Factory, saying it was such a good place for creative music
and so forth. However, I don't live in New York and that was some years ago.
Still I was very surprised to hear about thios change in attitudes.

Could anybody give a bit more information on this topic?

Or maybe this has already been discussed at great length around the time of
the original posting? Maybe then somebody could direct me towards the time
in the archives where I can find this discussion...?

Confused thanks!
ARTHUR_G

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: New Disc Up for Trade
Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:59:17 +0200 (MET DST)

A new disc by multi-instrumentalist Jyoji Sawada to trade: _Enfant
Terrible_ (Sonore), produced by Aki Onda and featuring a number of eminent
Japanese players, is based on a story by Sawada (some Japanese narration,
children=B4s voices) about a world ruled by kids. Kind of a cross between Th=
e
Residents and a dystopian Noh play, with some craziness, some beauty, and
an overall sensibility that should appeal to partisans of everything
"downtown".

I=B4m trying to fill some holes in my collection. Will trade for any of the
below. Respond privately if interested. All the best, Stephen

Dave Douglas, Magic Triangle
Dave Douglas Quartet, Leap of Faith
Dave Douglas Sextet, Soul on Soul
Wayne Horvitz, 4 + 1 Ensemble
Wayne Horvitz, American Bandstand
=46reight Elevator Quartet, Becoming Transparent
=46reight Elevator Quartet, Jungle
Marc Ribot & Los Cubanos Postizos, Muy Divertido
Junk Genius, Ghost of Electricity
St. Germain, Tourist
Carl Stone, Mom=B4s
Paul D. Miller, Death in the Light of the Phonograph
Him, Interpretive Belief System
V/A, This is Home Entertainment 1
Jon Hassell, The Surgeon of the Nightsky Restores Dead Things By the
   Power of Sound
Harold Budd, Luxa
   The White Arcade
   Lovely Thunder
Gavin Bryars, Cadman=B4s Requiem
We, deCentertainment
Tied & Tickled Trio, S/T
Kelly Hogan, Beneath the Country Underdog
Ojima Yoshio & Satsuki Shibano, Caresse
Ojima Yoshio & Satsuki Shibano, Music for Element
Boomish, S/T
DJ Logic, Project Logic

Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden

=46ax [phone]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: music libraries
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:44:44 -0500


dear robert --

it's an interesting idea, your library, and an idea strikes me that would help
you preserve the recordings and sidestep the home-taping concern. why not make
it a non-lending library? i've seen cd store listening stations set up with
headphones on one side of the counter and players on the other. a remote control
attached to the counter would allow someone to skip tracks and whatnot, and if
they were multi-disc players, people could sit there (in the nice, comfy chairs
you'd provide) with a fair bit of control over what they want to hear.

with this sort of control against home taping, i would think artists and labels
would be more than happy to make recordings available, if only out of promotion
they'd get.

i also think you might be wise to try and hook up with some already established
institution if you're going to do this. a special section of a public library or
a university seems plausible. and libraries do have special collections and
noncirculating materials, so it's not so far flung.

i hope you live in new york so i can come by when you get it open.

kg

np: kahil el'zabar's ritual trio featuring pharoah sanders - africa n'da blues
(although for your library i suggest 'alika rising' on sound aspects, if it's
still in print)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: music libraries
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:58:38 EDT

i know for a fact that Berklee College of Music in Boston has a music
library.  My best friend goes to school up there and he makes me incredibly
jealous by the fact that he can go listen to pretty much anything he could
ever want.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music libraries
Date: 28 Aug 2000 09:14:20 -0400

On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 09:58:38AM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
> i know for a fact that Berklee College of Music in Boston has a music
> library.  My best friend goes to school up there and he makes me incredibly
> jealous by the fact that he can go listen to pretty much anything he could
> ever want.

Twenty-mumble years ago, we had this at my college. It got so when I was
on my shift in the AV room, people would come in and ask me to put on
something they hadn't heard before that they'd like, for them to listen
to on headphones. Sort of a 1 to 1 DJ.

To do an in-store-listening only thing, I would maintain an MP3 jukebox
(or, given infinite filespace, a WAV file jukebox) of the CDs, so
multiple people could listen to the same tracks out of sync with one
another. You might also have multi-person listening booths for group
listening. (I've seen some nifty technology through which you can only
hear music while standing under a plastic dome.)

Definitely give it comfy chairs and coffee!

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:04:09 -0700

Don Gunning wrote:

>
> The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle.  If I didn't
> have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have
> some problems sometimes).

Same here, though I have a chunk of blues CDs separated out from the main
body of the collection. (The Chess 50th anniversary releases.)

A related question that's always amused my friends and me: Where do you all
file your Fela records? F for Fela, or K for Kuti?

Wm. Crump


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies (long)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:47:21 -0700


On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:19:47 -0400  Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> Ah, birthday splurges! If only I could convince my wife on the utility
> of semi-annual birthdays...

And what about Saint Brian's day? In the catholic almanach, there is a
Saint name for every day. Where not these celebrations specially designed
for us, avid record collectors :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 11:05:30 -0600

>Don Gunning wrote:
>
>>
>> The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle.  If I didn't
>> have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have
>> some problems sometimes).
>
>Same here, though I have a chunk of blues CDs separated out from the main
>body of the collection. (The Chess 50th anniversary releases.)
>
>A related question that's always amused my friends and me: Where do you all
>file your Fela records? F for Fela, or K for Kuti?
>
>Wm. Crump
>
>
>-

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "robert ludington" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music libraries
Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:04:19 GMT

On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 09:58:38AM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
>i know for a fact that Berklee College of Music in Boston has a music
>library.  My best friend goes to school up there and he makes me
> >incredibly jealous by the fact that he can go listen to pretty much
> >anything he could ever want.

<<To do an in-store-listening only thing, I would maintain an MP3
jukebox(or, given infinite filespace, a WAV file jukebox) of the CDs, so
multiple people could listen to the same tracks out of sync with one
another. You might also have multi-person listening booths for group
listening. (I've seen some nifty technology through which you can only
hear music while standing under a plastic dome.)
Definitely give it comfy chairs and coffee!>>

    I definitly have considered listening stations, but not as the main
objective of the place... but now I envision something like the jazz cafe's
which Otomo Yoshihide describes in his one more recent Wire interview(with
maybe a central PA that people could make requests, along with several
listening stations)... maybe,  to preserve the collection, but also to
respect peoples integrity there could be a blance between loans & listening
booths.. only lend out 2 albums per month, per person... I don't know,
personally I've never liked the library's fine system, because many times I
haven't returned something on time only because of how busy I was, or not in
the area of that particular library, never ill-intentioned.. maybe to
prevent people from borrowing & have it turn to theft there could be a rule
of: If you haven't returned an item you cannot borrow anything else until
that one item is returned, but there are no late fees...? It's hard to
strike a balance between being fair to the individual & what's fair to the
public at large....

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: glenn branca rec's requested
Date: 28 Aug 2000 11:17:50 CDT

I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've never
heard a note.  What's everybody's opinion of his work, and what
recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend?

Great advances in thanks,

----s
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sixun
Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:04:27 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/00 3:31:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< This is probably the best example of the terrible fusion plague that was
 rampant in France in the late 80's/early 90's... Sixun, Uzeb and their
cohorts
 were the purveyors of some of the worst outrages against music ever
committed.
 Since this trend was unexplicably popular at one point, it was really easy
to
 come by their stuff... if your local record store has one of those 'jazz
rock'
 bins you might be able to find them. I'd recommend listening to them at
least
 once to get an idea of how bad it was. >>

I found an Uzeb live double CD (title?) in the used bins at my fave hip CD
outlet a couple of years ago.  While some of it was pretty capable jazz/rock
fusion, most of it came off as Yellowjackets wannabes.  Very weird to hear
the same band burning it up one moment and then stinking it up the next.

--
np: Out Of Focus- Not Too Late (recently released/previously unreleased 4th
album by the legendary German jazz/rock outfit)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 10:05:05 -0700

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM

> I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too,
> but that CD is
> long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find.

That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or so.

Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out...

More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal
realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too
operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds
howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the not-small
matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks.

Later,
Ben

np: scott walker, "it's raining today"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:08:35 -0700

> More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal
> realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too
> operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds
> howling over the fjords is a little too much.

I've a lot of friends that are into hardcore and such, so I've taken to some
of the scre(a)mo stuff. Red Roses for a Blue Lady slay, they're the coolest
combination of outofcontrolcore and emo intensity. Combatwoundedveteran are
killer cantplaycore (self-described.) I sometimes have a hard time digesting
too much black metal (it's the corpsepaint that really makes it difficult to
take them seriously) but I'm more interested in the grind and hardcore
manifestations. The new Napalm Death Peel Sessions are vital though.

Cheers,
Nirav
--
OnNow- Mos Def- Black on Both Sides
"Survival is not possible if one approaches his enviornment, the social
drama, with a fixed, unchangeable point of view- the witless repetitive
responce to the unpercieved."- Marshall McLuhan


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linares Hugo <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Brad Shepik (continued)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:19:35 -0300





> It is trio "Tridruga" with Yuri Lemeshev on accordion and Tony Scherr
> on bass balalaika and Brad on acoustic guitar.
>
> They are very mellow, romantic and beautiful. They are performed in
> kind of sophisticated manner though.
    [Linares Hugo]

    Seconded. It's a pretty nice and interesting recording, highly
recommended for accordion "suckers".
    I asked Tony Scherr if this project would go on and he said that it
would depend on their different projects, though they were very happy with
the results they got to.
    "Tridruga" was recorded in Scherr's house.

    Hugo Linares.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sackville reissues
Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:29:37 -0400 (EDT)

Hi folks:

The most recent CODA (September/October) announced
that Sackville Records (its affiliate) is going to
reissue nine avant garde sessions every two months
over the next two years in limited editions of 1,000.

Titles will include sessions by Julius Hemphill, Don
Pullen, Roscoe Mitchell, Braxton etc. and a series
subscription is available.

Sackville is at: Box 1002, Stn. O, Toronto, Ont., M4A
2N4 Canada
tel/fax: [phone]

I have no affiliation with the label, I'm just
interested in good music.

Ken Waxman


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: glenn branca rec's requested
Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:37:28 -0400

For my record-buying dollar, Symphony No. 6 is essential.  The third
movement is perhaps the most, uh, Branca-esque, and is a great
introduction to the kind of guitar thing he's often identified with.
Feedbacky, thrashy, probably the kind of thing Cage would have called
fascistic.  The second movement is one of the most amazing sounds
I've ever heard--I get chills every time I hear it.  (Imagine
something like 10 ebow-driven guitars s-l-o-w-l-y moving slides up
their necks.) The first and fifth movements involve more picking and
less chordal thrashing than usual, and I'm having a hard time
remembering the fourth movement at the moment.

I'm fond of the early _Ascension_ LP--much rougher and more rockish
than some of the later stuff, although I'm not sure of the in-print
status.  I've enjoyed Symph 5--it's more subtle than some of the
other stuff, but I'm at work and don't have my copy handy for a more
in-depth comparison.

I was disappointed by 8, which struck me as kind cartoony-Wagnerian.
The opening's great, but it falls off from there significantly.  10
(on the same disc) was definitely better, but sort of picks a sound
and stays on it, IIRC, and isn't as varied as the 5 and 6.  As for
the orchestral stuff, I haven't heard any.

There are, IIRC, some sound samples out there on the unofficial fan
site at http://www.tiac.net/users/blip/branca/branca.html but I
haven't been there in a while.  And there's an official site at
http://www.glennbranca.com/ too.

HTH,
Maurice

At 11:17 AM -0500 8/28/00, Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
>I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've
>never heard a note.  What's everybody's opinion of his work, and
>what recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend?
>
>Great advances in thanks,
>
>----s
>_________________________________________________________________________
--
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: glenn branca rec's requested
Date: 28 Aug 2000 15:51:24 -0400

Apologies to anyone who received this twice; I'm not sure if it went
out the first time.

For my record-buying dollar, Symphony No. 6 is essential.  The third
movement is perhaps the most, uh, Branca-esque, and is a great
introduction to the kind of guitar thing he's often identified with.
Feedbacky, thrashy, probably the kind of thing Cage would have called
fascistic.  The second movement is one of the most amazing sounds
I've ever heard--I get chills every time I hear it.  (Imagine
something like 10 ebow-driven guitars s-l-o-w-l-y moving slides up
their necks.) The first and fifth movements involve more picking and
less chordal thrashing than usual, and I'm having a hard time
remembering the fourth movement at the moment.

I'm fond of the early _Ascension_ LP--much rougher and more rockish
than some of the later stuff, although I'm not sure of the in-print
status.  I've enjoyed Symph 5--it's more subtle than some of the
other stuff, but I'm at work and don't have my copy handy for a more
in-depth comparison.

I was disappointed by 8, which struck me as kind cartoony-Wagnerian.
The opening's great, but it falls off from there significantly.  10
(on the same disc) was definitely better, but sort of picks a sound
and stays on it, IIRC, and isn't as varied as the 5 and 6.  As for
the orchestral stuff, I haven't heard any.

There are, IIRC, some sound samples out there on the unofficial fan
site at http://www.tiac.net/users/blip/branca/branca.html but I
haven't been there in a while.  And there's an official site at
http://www.glennbranca.com/ too.

HTH,
Maurice

At 11:17 AM -0500 8/28/00, Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
>I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've
>never heard a note.  What's everybody's opinion of his work, and
>what recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend?
>
>Great advances in thanks,
>
>----s
>_________________________________________________________________________
--
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: persepolis/dubravko detoni
Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:07:13 EDT

a couple of reissue notes:

first of all, it seems as if a French label, Fractal, has reissued Xenakis'
Persepolis, which I've never heard, but which is widely considered to be his
major electroacoustic work. Ear/Rational has copies now
(http://www.xmission.com/~ear/), and I'm guessing that other distributors who
carry Fractal should get them shortly.

also, not sure if I mentioned this here earlier this year, but Paradigm
recently put out another superb reissue with the Dubravko Detoni early
seventies compilation. think Dumitrescu with a dash of Nurse With Wound
(Steven Stapleton helped with the packaging), and you're in the neighborhood.
another gem unearthed by Clive Graham and Paradigm, following up the Brast
Burn, Karuna Khyal, and Anal Magic troika of last year. as for the second
Frizzell reissue, the first 20 minute piece is superb, but the rest doesn't
hold up to that high standard, unfortunately.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: this message concerns Marsh
Date: 28 Aug 2000 14:13:03 -0600


Hi Marsh,

i recieved your message but haven't been able to answer.  I keep recieving
the following message:

>The message failed to be delivered to ([e-mail]) because:
>The requested mailbox doesn't exist...

the message is from Apex mail and goes on to state other possible reasons
for the difficulty.

is the following address correct?  [e-mail]

Matt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Spaans <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 00:46:20 +0200 (CEST)

Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys really
knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform a couple
of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed me.
They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and experimental
music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz influences but
still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore not be appreciated
by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out .... if you are able
to get yourself copy !

Bye,

Leon

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail]
> > [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM
>
> > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too,
> > but that CD is
> > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find.
>
> That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or so.
>
> Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out...
>
> More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal
> realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too
> operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds
> howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the not-small
> matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks.
>
> Later,
> Ben
>
> np: scott walker, "it's raining today"
>
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
> ICQ# 12832406
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: listening libraries, filing systems
Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:48:32 -0700

i lived in japan 1981-82 in fukuoka, a city of 1 miliion at the time.
the japanese, at least then, were big on themed bars. there was one for
knife enthusiasts, for instance. there were at least three in fukuoka
that had their walls lined with jazz LPs -- each had thousands and
thousands. you added your request to the end of list. a nice
combination of listening and socializing with like minded folks. the
collections, it turned out, generally exceeded the range of tastes of
the patrons -- none of the barkeeps seemed too enthusiastic when i
requested Interstellar Space.... maybe nowadays they have special bars
for the outcats....

when we had this filing discussion last year, someone said they filed
in the order they acquired the CDs. ... how about filing
chronologically by recording date? or, for fun, by ensemble size
(starting with solo, ending with Braxton's set for four orchestras),
then chronological within that?

martin

np. misha mengelberg "solo" (warming up for ICP's first ever visit to
Southern California, and my first chance to see any of these guys in
person)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Baron Discography/David Sanborn
Date: 28 Aug 2000 19:04:15 -0400

> > On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 10:43:23PM -0400, Peter Risser wrote:
> > > Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel
or
> > > other.
> >
> > They useta have them on BET on Jazz twice daily. I suspect they'll
> > eventually return.

 Okay, let me rephrase.
 Yeah, boy, I sure wish they'd bring THESE back to some cable channel or
 other.... THAT I GET.

 Sigh.
 I'm stuck with the Time Warner monopoly, and, for example, even though
 TVLand the Game Show network are far and away the most requested new
 channels, they recently expanded with the Golf Network and like fifty more
 HBOs.  Great.  Just what I needed.

 Maybe someone could tape 'em and put 'em on the web or something.

 Peter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Downtown" David Sanborn / Night Music
Date: 28 Aug 2000 20:25:33 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 8/27/00 2:57:15 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I don't know the album in question, but Sanborn's roots go back to St.
> Louis. I think, where he played as a youth with members of that city's
> Black Artist Group including Hemphill and Lester Bowie. When he hosted
> that (very) late night music program on NBC (Night Music, right?), Zorn
> appeared and Sanborn joined him for a tear through of a Zorn piece
> (Roadrunner?). So, yeah, he has some perhaps unexpected roots. >>
>
> Sanborn also appears (and definitely holds his own) on Tim Berne's Hemphill
> tribute CD, Diminutive Mysteries (mostly Hemphill) (JMT).

He also played on at least one occasion at the Knit with Zorn and Berne's Spy
Vs. Spy.  And if memory serves, on Night Music Sanborn actually played with
Zorn (Naked City's "Snagglepuss," with the rest of the bemused looking fusion
chopsmen in the Night Music group - Hiram Bullock, Omar Hakim, Phillipe Saisse
and a fill-in bassist subbing for Marcus Miller) and Berne ("Hong Kong Sad
Song/More Coffee," with Herb Robertson, Marc Ribot, Hank Roberts, Mark Dresser
and Joey Baron).  Further memory search leads me to think that the latter
episode ending with John Cale, Richard Thompson and Shawn Colvin trading
verses on Cale's dolorous version of "Heartbreak Hotel" with BJ Cole on pedal
steel and Berne and Sanborn tooting on alto and soprano respectively.

Best Night Music memory of all, however, would have to be Todd Rundgren, Ellen
Foley and Taj Mahal performing a scene from 'HMS Pinafore,' with Sanborn, Pat
Metheny, Christian Marclay (!!!) and the Night Music band all dressed as
sailors behind them...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
(catching up on e-mail after a long weekend away...)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Brad Shepik -Tridruga
Date: 27 Aug 2000 11:01:14 +0200



Brad Shepik's Tridruga is on www.lvslv.com (loveslave). Also try "The Well"
with Epstein, Sverrison (Pachora) and Sarin. Turkish and very nice.


_ Rob ......<.....   ||
    [e-mail]
     http://www.frontstage.com/rob
   "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening
     as the performer to playing".


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal: black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 18:31:57 -0700 (PDT)



Good recommendations, on the Napalm Death tip I'd like to add that
the
Peel
Sessions are really worth tracking down. Early Earache stuff is good
(Carcass,
Bolt Thrower, etc.)
-------------
I second that!!!! Actually, the Peel Sessions have been re-issued
about a month ago, and the CD includes 4 sessions now, so that's
quite essential.
The other day I discovered this page, featuring reviews for the
entire Earache catalog:

http://www.lamcat.demon.co.uk

A nice independent label... that's just about gone to hell.

np: Lawnmower Deth/Kids in America

A

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: music libraries
Date: 28 Aug 2000 21:59:06 EDT

Berklee College of Music has a great music library that matches the
description implied. It is called The Media Center. The whole Media Center
consists of a pretty good book library, a computer center for sequencing and
other computer needs, a lounge called The Stan Getz Lounge because it
displays his tenor sax, an Internet room, and various other stuff. They have
a request list that gets granted most of the time. It is open to the public
with a library or college ID card. They have about 50 CD players with
headphones and about 30 television screens with VCRs, laserdiscs, and soon
DVD players. The catalogue is enormous (and it should be after paying the
enormous tuition) and the months top 100 CDs in the billboard charts are
donated to Berklee from the Newbury Comics shop. No one is allowed to remove
anything from the Media Center (and no coffee either, though I still sneak
some in). I know many people who have snuck CDs and videos out, burned or
taped them and returned them, this kind of thing is always bond to happen.
The catalogue is easily searchable through their new Macintosh computers. I
think the catalogue is even on the Berklee web site. It is a great thing, you
can spend a whole Sunday in there. And yes, they have a pretty fair amount of
avant stuff. So if you live anywhere near Boston come check it out.

Bugs and Hugs,
Marcus



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal: black etc
Date: 28 Aug 2000 22:00:14 -0400

> Good recommendations, on the Napalm Death tip I'd like to add that
> the
> Peel
> Sessions are really worth tracking down. Early Earache stuff is good
> (Carcass,
> Bolt Thrower, etc.)
> -------------
> I second that!!!! Actually, the Peel Sessions have been re-issued
> about a month ago, and the CD includes 4 sessions now, so that's
> quite essential.

Plus, I don't know about yours, but *my* Peel Sessions CD has glow in the
dark ink for the printing on the CD.  Cool!

(Makes a GREAT answering machine message, BTW)
Peter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Honorio
Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:21:53 -0300

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C01146.C015A200
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Acabo de terminar de ver Televisi=F3n Registrada y descubr=ED algo =
incre=EDble: =A1Honorio no es otro que Luis Fernandez!. Por si nunca =
vieron el programejo, Honorio es un personaje petiso gordo y de anteojos =
que acompa=F1a a Tino y Gargamuza, pero es lo opuesto, si ellos son =
c=EDnicos y cr=EDticos el es benevolente y se expresa con un lenguaje =
rimbobante. Igual que nuestro Luis.
   Veanlo, van a ver que tengo raz=F3n.

LA LICHUZA


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C01146.C015A200
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d0bcd0>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Acabo de terminar de ver =
Televisi=F3n Registrada y=20
descubr=ED algo incre=EDble: =A1Honorio no es otro que Luis Fernandez!. =
Por si nunca=20
vieron el programejo, Honorio es un personaje petiso gordo y de anteojos =
que=20
acompa=F1a a Tino y Gargamuza, pero es lo opuesto, si ellos son =
c=EDnicos y cr=EDticos=20
el es benevolente y se expresa con un lenguaje rimbobante. Igual =
que=20
nuestro Luis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>   Veanlo, van a ver que =
tengo=20
raz=F3n.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>LA =
LICHUZA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C01146.C015A200--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: metal
Date: 29 Aug 2000 02:37:15 GMT

>More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal
>realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too
>operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds
>howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the
>not->small matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks.

Yeah, no kidding, on both of those counts. I am not a big black metal fan
although there are some bands who are kind of near that that I like such as
Opeth or At the Gates.

Some (more "experimental") metal bands that I like are:

Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (chaotic, incredibly complex,
with weirdo fusion-y overtones and very abrasive vocals)

...and if you line them, Coalesce, Candiria, Cave-In (all of whom actually
come from a "Hardcore" perspective but like Dillinger don't go for any
stylistic trappings of that genre ... well, besides screaming alot) as well
as Human Remains and Strapping young Lad, both of whom others mentioned, are
worth listening to.

Soilent Green - super-heavy, swampy New Orleans metal, incredibly twisted
songs with lots of parts (some fast, some slow, all pretty loud), not really
"death metal" or "grindcore" or anything specific. Pretty unique I think.
There's another related band, Eyehategod, who shares on of their guitar
players. That stuff isn't as far out musically, basically really slow,
painful kind of southern/Black Sabbath/Melvins sludge. Another really good
New Orleans band was Acid Bath who were kind of like Soilent Green, only
less complex/heavy and with more of a rock feel and lots of cleanly sung,
almost Jim Morrison-type vocals.

Then Death Metal - I have to say I like Morbid Angel, whatever their
personal beliefs are (and there are plenty of bands who are worse). Part of
me laughs when I listen to this stuff, but then again, it's pretty amazing
and really well written. Somebody else mentioned Cryptopsy, they're pretty
amazing too, more technical and out there but not as much as Gorguts'
Obscura CD, which is totally krazy. Actually I don't personally like that as
much although it is interesting.

For something with a sense of humor, there's a band called Carnival in Coal,
actually a French duo who are kind of like Mr. Bungle + death metal + '80s
dance pop. It is really sick, stupid and over the top sometimes (not
gory-sick or anything, just sarcastic) and they use a drum machine (at least
know how to program it) but they know what they are doing. The one which is
relatively easier to find, _French Cancan_, has great back-to-back covers of
Gerry Rafferty's "Baker STreet" and Morbid Angel's "Fall from Grace." If you
like Mr. Bungle/Patton, estradasphere and/or Zappa as well as metal, this
may be worth listening to.

But if you are coming from a Zorn/Naked City point of view, the closest at
first is probably Napalm Death (The Peel Session, Scum, From
Enslavement...), then other grind stuff like Brutal Truth or, more recently,
Discordance Axis. Basically, it's more "angry," less "evil." And that is
really far away, at least to me, from the majestic black metal stuff that
aquarius talks about a lot, though they do mention other stuff.

Anyway, sorry if this is off topic,
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal
Date: 28 Aug 2000 22:51:29 EDT

the only metal that i can bare to listen to anymore is megadeth.  however, i
only really like the music from the late 80's and early 90's (rust in peace,
countdown to extinction, and youthanasia).  the rhythm is phenominal on all
the albums with rust in peace being the epitome of thrash metal.  dave
mustaine developed such an incredible guitar playing style which peaked on
youthanasia...makes me wonder what happened.    so any fan of "rock music"
that likes unique rhythm should definitely check out those
albums....youthanasia being the best of the 3.

dave

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: "Downtown" David Sanborn / Night Music
Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:06:35 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/00 8:37:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Best Night Music memory of all, however, would have to be Todd Rundgren,
Ellen
 Foley and Taj Mahal performing a scene from 'HMS Pinafore,' with Sanborn, Pat
 Metheny, Christian Marclay (!!!) and the Night Music band all dressed as
 sailors behind them...
  >>



holy  shit.....

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brad Syna <[e-mail]>
Subject: great night music memories
Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:58:25 -0400

As I recall as Night music moved into it's 2nd season and they
got rid of Jools Holland and made Sanborn the only host, they
would have all the guests play separately and then start
combining them into interesting combos at the end of the show.
I remember a great one with Indigo Girls and Sonic Youth, SY
did a rocking Iggy Pop's Now I Want to Be Your Dog with Sanborn
wailing on sax.
My two favorites had to be Conway Twitty with backing vocalists
The Residents and Bongwater joined by Bob Weir ( boy did he look
like he was enjoying the match ) and Rob Wasserman along with
( I can't recall his name now ( the voodoo bluesman that use
to have the snake around his neck and light all the flashpaper )
performing a Roky Ericson tune.
It's still my favorite music show to date, it was booked by Hal
( forgetting last name ( my memory is fading!!! )) and produced by
Lorne Michaels. If they ever show them again catch them they are
a treat!!!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ICP, Shepik
Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:55:40 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/00 3:57:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< np. misha mengelberg "solo" (warming up for ICP's first ever visit to
 Southern California, and my first chance to see any of these guys in
 person)
  >>

Where are they playing down there?  KF?  I'm going to see them in
Oakland(Mills) in a couple of weeks.  Misha and Han played here last year and
Clusone many years ago.  Its a miracle that they're coming here at all.  This
will be the 1st time for many of the musicians.  Usually you can't even get a
trio to come into town.  Lately there's been  Willem Breuker Kollektief,
Peter Brotzmann's 12tet,  Pierre Dorge's New Jungle Orchestra,and lastly ICP.
 Keep 'em coming.
    Regarding a previous Shepik thread, don't forget the band Babkas, who I
suppose is now defunct.  They put out 3 phenominal cds on Songlines, with
Briggan Krauss-sax and Aaron Alexander-drums.  One minute it'll be quiet and
nimble, the next blistering and searing.  I'm still waiting for Briggan to
sound this good again.  This is Shepik  at his most aggressive and inventive
with no ethnic influences this time.  I would rate the first,s/t, as the best
but they're all really good.
    John Threadgould

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 00:03:42 -0400

Also,

    when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having
ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which
people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy
(?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).  Also PESTILENCE's last
album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.

Neil H. Enet
------------

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans
Sent: Lunes, 28 de Agosto de 2000 06:46 p.m.
Cc: Zorn List


Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys really
knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform a couple
of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed me.
They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and experimental
music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz influences but
still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore not be appreciated
by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out .... if you are able
to get yourself copy !

Bye,

Leon

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail]
> > [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM
>
> > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too,
> > but that CD is
> > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find.
>
> That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or
so.
>
> Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out...
>
> More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal
> realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too
> operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds
> howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the
not-small
> matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks.
>
> Later,
> Ben
>
> np: scott walker, "it's raining today"
>
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
> ICQ# 12832406
>
>
> -
>
>


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "gabe wingfield" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Karuna Khyal (was: persepolis/dubravko detoni)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 23:17:16 -0500

> another gem unearthed by Clive Graham and Paradigm, following up the Brast
> Burn, Karuna Khyal, and Anal Magic troika of last year.

anyone have any info about this band aside from the forced exposure blurb
and the review on motion 51?  it would be greatly appreciated.

gabe



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ICP, Shepik
Date: 29 Aug 2000 10:13:58 -0700

>>>Where are they playing down there?  KF?<<<

Yes, KF. And Han is playing solo at City Hall in Ventura as part of our
ongoing pfMENTUM new music series. As we say in Southern
California.......what a bitchin' coup, dudes.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: FS: Miles Davis + others (non-Zorn)
Date: 29 Aug 2000 01:47:29 -0400

I have the following items for sale that
some on this list may be interested in.

All prices _US $_.  POSTAGE PAID within North America.
Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged.

If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$20 -- Christoph Heemann - "Invisible Barrier" US CD (Extreme: xcd019) =
1993
       [Excellent Heemann release on Extreme.  His first major solo out=
ing
       (after the Robot 10") recorded in 1992.  Long out of print.]
$15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992
$15 -- Miles Davis - "On The Corner" JAP CD (Sony Japan: srcs9125) 1998
       [Japanese 1998 "Master Sound" series reissue (SBM) of 1972 class=
ic
       in gatefold mini-LP sleeve w/ insert.  Mint.]
$20 -- Paul Sch=FCtze - "New Maps Of Hell" US CD (Extreme: xcd015) 1992
       [First pressing on Extreme w/ original artwork.  Feat. "A Soul
       Reports" not on the 1996 UK reissue.  Long out of print.]
$20 -- Sigillum S - "Helix Parasites" ITA CD (Minus Habens: mhcd013) 19=
93
       [Eraldo Bernocchi, Paolo Bandera & Luca Di Giorgio.]

more at:
[ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ]

Thanks for looking.


-Patrick
[e-mail]






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Case" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical
Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:20:20 +0950

Hi all,
 On the matter of metal, has anyone here got any thisng  to say about Yngwie
Malmsteen? I really like his earlier works with the very guitar orientated pieces.
Has anyone heard the fairly recent classical sympony for elctric guitar that
he released?
Case
NP Morrissey:Bona Drag

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Marcin Witkowski)
Subject: Secret Chiefs 3 [no Zorn content]
Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:40:21 +0100

     Dear all

     Mimicry rereleased First and Second Grand... by Secret Chiefs 3. They
     are remastered and bonus tracks are added. I've already got them from
     Amarillo. Does somebody know if they are worth buying again? How
     many/long are bonus tracks? Can I really hear "remastering"?

     Awaiting for your comments

     Marcin Witkowski

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Re: great night music memories
Date: 29 Aug 2000 10:55:32 +0200 (MET DST)

>they
>would have all the guests play separately and then start
>combining them into interesting combos at the end of the show.

Another time: Leonard Cohen backed up by his own trio of girl singers plus
the vocalists from Was/Not Was with Sonny Rollins on sax. Dreamy. All the
best, Stephen

Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden

=46ax [phone]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeroen de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 12:46:01 GMT+0100

Hi there,

> Also,
>
>  when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember
>  having
> ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements",
> which people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist
> Tony Choy (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).

Yeah, Atheist's 'Unquestionable Presence' is one of the most
interesting 'intelligent metal (?)' albums i've ever heard. I don't
like 'Elements' much though. Maybe this is due to the fact they lost
their incredible drummer. He can be heard on their debut album
though, titled 'Pieces'. This one's more in the vein of
'Unquestionable Presence': a superb mix of deathmetal and jazz. When
tey tied to include tribal rhythms as well on 'Elements' it all
became too sterile.

Also
> PESTILENCE's last album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.

Yes it was, but I think they were only trying to sound like Cynic,
but weren't capable of really playing it.
>
> Neil H. Enet
> ------------


> Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys
> really knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform
> a couple of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed
> me.

Do I know you? I also a couple of their shows in Holland a few years
ago (Enschede and DOA). Cynic has to be heard by anyone who is
interested in experimental metal. These guys are unbelievable: coming
from a jazz background (Berklee et al.) but with a definite love for
extreme metal they are, up to now, the only band that could mix jazz
and metal in a way you should think it only could be this way.
Drummer Sean Reinert (I raved about him before on this list) plays
jazz with his hands, while playing incredible doublebass patterns
with his feet. Anyone who has heard Death's 'Human' knows what this
is like.
Guitar players Hason Gobel and Paul Masdival (also on 'Human') have a
definite interest in the playing of Allan Holdswort, but anyone
familiar with Meshuggah knows this can be a perfect couple with
metal. Bass and stick player Sean Malone adds a Pastorius like
flaovour to the music, but is also a very fine composer in his own
right. Check out his 'Gordian Knot' albums, which also feature
Reinert.

They broke up a couple of years ago, but seem to back now with a band
called 'Aghora'. I ordered their cd a week ago, so it should arrive
fairly soon. According to the reviews I read this is the music of
Cynic with more jazz and a female singer instead of a male grunter.

They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and
> experimental music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz
> influences but still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore
> not be appreciated by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out
> .... if you are able to get yourself copy !

Some other bands that can be of interest of intelligent metal lovers
are Confessor, Watchtower, Sieges Even, and of course Dillinger
Escape Plan.

Jeroen




Jeroen de Boer
              music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation
              Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen
              The Netherlands
              tel/fax: [phone]
              gsm: [phone]
              [e-mail]

http://www.cyberslag.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 13:20:00 +0200

-----Original Message-----


Hi there,

Anyone who has heard Death's 'Human' knows what this
is like.

(stefan) this reminds me of something. Chuck is indeed one of THE BEST death
metal guitar players in this scene. But I read somewhere that he was trying
to recover from cancer.

Did he? Because a bootleg label recently compiled a 4cd box with all sort of
live material, called "R.I.P. Chuck".

Is this a sick joke or did Chuck really die?

Anyone knows this?

Best wishes

Stefan (thinking about the days when he kicked on Deicide & Morbid Angel....
those were the Satan days....)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeroen de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 13:22:39 GMT+0100


> (stefan) this reminds me of something. Chuck is indeed one of THE BEST
> death metal guitar players in this scene. But I read somewhere that he
> was trying to recover from cancer.

> Is this a sick joke or did Chuck really die?

No, he actually recovered from brain cancer a few months ago and is
already working on the second 'Control Denied' album, his true metal
band. Nice to know is that a lot of his fans sent money to the Chuck
Chuldiner family to pay for the huge medical bills.

The first upcoming Death-album will be a live-cd. I hope it also
contains material of the 'Human'-era...

Jeroen

Jeroen de Boer
              music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation
              Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen
              The Netherlands
              tel/fax: [phone]
              gsm: [phone]
              [e-mail]

http://www.cyberslag.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:18:00 EDT

In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having
 ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which
 people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy
 (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).  Also PESTILENCE's last
 album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.
  >>

Yes, I used to listen to all these bands.  I remember, about 7 years ago,
when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to
virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear everything
I wanted.  I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though.
I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now
plays in Sadus?)?

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:29:49 EDT

In a message dated 8/29/00 8:19:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<<  I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though.
 I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now
 plays in Sadus?)?
  >>
 Oh I just read Jeroen's post and realized that I'm talking about a different
guy.  Sean Malone was the Cynic bass player (who was not in Atheist).

-matt mitchell

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeroen de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:37:07 GMT+0100



> I don't remember Atheist and Cynic
> sharing a bass player, though.  I thought maybe that the Cynic bass
> player used to play in Death (and now plays in Sadus?)?
>
> -matt mitchell

Cynic and Atheist did share bassplayer Tony Choy, but he never
officially recorded with Cynic. He's only on a few of their demo's.
After he left Cynic he joined Atheist with whom he recorded
'Unquestionable Presence' and 'Elements'.

Steve DiGiorgio, bassplayer of Sadus, played on Death's 'Human',
together with Sean Reinert, Paul Masdival and Jason Gobel of Cynic.
He also contributed to 'Unquestionable Presence'. Furthermore he's
also playing bass in Chuck Chuldiners 'Control Denied' project.
He never played with Cynic.

Jeroen

ps.
Matt, I just read your post and Sean Malone indeed didn't play with
Atheist.


Jeroen de Boer
              music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation
              Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen
              The Netherlands
              tel/fax: [phone]
              gsm: [phone]
              [e-mail]

http://www.cyberslag.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sorry
Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:45:57 -0300

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0119D.EE8057A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I mistakenly sent a private message titled "Honorio" to the Zorn List. =
Sorry for the spamming.
Yours always

LA LICHUZA

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0119D.EE8057A0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d0bcd0>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I mistakenly sent a private message =
titled=20
"Honorio" to the Zorn List. Sorry for the spamming.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Yours always</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>LA=20
LICHUZA</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0119D.EE8057A0--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Spaans <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:44:56 +0200 (CEST)

Atheist was pretty amazing as well. I unfortunately never got the chance
to see them live :-(
Tony Choy played on the Pestilence album before Spheres ...
called Testimony of the Ancients. I'm not sure whether Tony played in
Cynic, however they thank him in the CD-booklet ...

Bye, Leon

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Neil H. Enet wrote:

> Also,
>
>     when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having
> ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which
> people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy
> (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).  Also PESTILENCE's last
> album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.
>
> Neil H. Enet
> ------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans
> Sent: Lunes, 28 de Agosto de 2000 06:46 p.m.
> To: Benito Vergara
> Cc: Zorn List
> Subject: RE: metal: black etc
>
>
> Yep, you DEFINITELY should check out Focus (by Cynic) ! These guys really
> knew/know how to play their instruments. I've seen them perform a couple
> of times in Holland and their shows really really impressed me.
> They were one of the bands that have gotten me into jazz and experimental
> music. Their music, however, has definitely got some jazz influences but
> still has a firm Metal-foundation and will therefore not be appreciated
> by most jazz fans, I suppose ;-) But, check it out .... if you are able
> to get yourself copy !
>
> Bye,
>
> Leon
>
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote:
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [e-mail]
> > > [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:41 PM
> >
> > > I guess I should mention Cynic's one-shot too,
> > > but that CD is
> > > long out of print and becoming hard as hell to find.
> >
> > That one shows up on Ebay a lot, but be prepared to pay more than $20 or
> so.
> >
> > Man, now I have a long list of stuff to check out...
> >
> > More of my metal finds have been more in the grindcore / technical metal
> > realm. I find that the big (real) black metal bands are a little too
> > operatic for my taste. Plus the stuff about Vikings and wolves and winds
> > howling over the fjords is a little too much. And then there's the
> not-small
> > matter of the, er, political persuasion of some of these folks.
> >
> > Later,
> > Ben
> >
> > np: scott walker, "it's raining today"
> >
> > http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
> > ICQ# 12832406
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
>
> -
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ICP, Shepik
Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:59:27 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:

> Usually you can't even get a
> trio to come into town.  Lately there's been  Willem Breuker Kollektief,
> Peter Brotzmann's 12tet,  Pierre Dorge's New Jungle Orchestra,and lastly ICP.

I think this is mostly due to a spate of enlightened underwriting.  I know that
the Dorge visit is sponsored in part by the Danish government, and I think the
Dutch goverment gets involved to a degree with the likes of Breuker and
Mengelberg.  The Brotzmann 12tet tour was underwritten by Vandermark's MacArthur
"genius grant," in order to prepare for the recording they did during and after
the tour.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Spaans <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:21:05 +0200 (CEST)

Ehm, not totally true, I think. Steve DiGiorgo played with Death on
the 'Human' and 'Individual Thought Patterns' albums, but Death was always
something of a 'project-band', because the only person who played on all
their records is Chuck himself. Steve's own band was Sadus. But I'm not
sure whether Steve ever played in Cynic ...

Bye, Leon

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 [e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
> writes:
>
> << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember having
>  ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which
>  people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy
>  (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).  Also PESTILENCE's last
>  album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.
>   >>
>
> Yes, I used to listen to all these bands.  I remember, about 7 years ago,
> when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to
> virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear everything
> I wanted.  I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player, though.
> I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now
> plays in Sadus?)?
>
> -matt mitchell
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: great night music memories / Willner
Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:42:31 -0500

Brad Syna wrote:

> I remember a great one with Indigo Girls and Sonic Youth, SY
> did a rocking Iggy Pop's Now I Want to Be Your Dog with Sanborn
> wailing on sax.

Yeah, and Sanborn introduced it as a medley of two great American folk
tunes - just before SY took the stage, a little trad folk combo with the
Indigo Girls played "Red River Valley."

> My two favorites had to be Conway Twitty with backing vocalists
> The Residents

God, yes, forgot about that...

> and Bongwater joined by Bob Weir ( boy did he look
> like he was enjoying the match ) and Rob Wasserman along with
> ( I can't recall his name now ( the voodoo bluesman that use
> to have the snake around his neck and light all the flashpaper )
> performing a Roky Ericson tune.

Screamin' Jay Hawkins.  Here's another... Carla Bley, Steve Swallow and
Karen Mantler backing Bootsy Collins...  and although much more
mainstream, Sting backed by Frisell and Fareed Haque on "Ain't No
Sunshine" was awfully pretty.

Oh, and I forgot a detail on the John Cale performance I mentioned
yesterday.  Cajun accordion player Jo-El Sonnier was also a part of that
performance.  Likewise, on the Tim Berne performance (same episode),
Hank Roberts was not involved and the guitar player was not Marc Ribot
but Allan Jaffe.  (Yes, I pulled out a tape.)  I must have been
remembering Hank from a Frisell quartet performance on the
abovementioned episode with Sting...

Lest anyone think that the show was all avant-gardists, it bears mention
that there were generally headliners who, while not strictly mainstream,
carried more marquee value to lure in the unsuspecting - Sting is a good
example, but I remember Al Green, Aaron Neville, Lou Reed, Philip Bailey
and plenty of others.  There were also numerous world music artists back
before that was hip, including Papa Wemba, Anabouboula and Ivo Papasov.
But what really pushed the envelope was the all-inclusive performances
at the end.

> It's still my favorite music show to date, it was booked by Hal
> ( forgetting last name ( my memory is fading!!! ))

Willner... same guy who did all those great tribute albums that exposed
a generation to Zorn, Sharp et al - 'Amercord Nino Rota' (Rota,
obviously, on Hannibal), 'That's the Way I Feel Now' (Monk, A&M), 'Lost
in the Stars' (Weill, A&M - he did another Weill tribute on Columbia
later but this one's better), 'Stay Awake' (Walt Disney music, A&M -
featuring great interludes by Frisell, Horvitz & Ken Nordine) and 'Weird
Nightmare' (Mingus, Columbia).  Willner used to be music director for
Saturday Night Live, thus the connection to Lorne Michaels.

Willner's most recent recording project, if I remember correctly, was a
2CD set of Edgar Allan Poe poems and short stories, 'Closed on Account
of Rabies,' on the Mouth Almighty label, 1997.  It featured readings by
Marianne Faithfull, Christopher Walken, Iggy Pop, Jeff Buckley, Diamanda
Galas and others, with some tracks featuring sampling and sound effects
supplied by Willner, others featuring music by Wayne Kramer, Steven
Bernstein, Chris Spedding, Marc Ribot & Dr. John, and the Jazz
Passengers with Debbie Harry.

And within the last two years here in New York, Willner mounted a couple
of live concerts in tribute to the Harry Smith Anthology of American
Folk Music...

> If they ever show them again catch them they are
> a treat!!!

Agreed.  The show was never seen in any quasi-primetime slot in Houston,
but they used to show them every night at 3 a.m. for a while there - I
taped them on autopilot a week at a time and settled in for a while on
the weekends...  but those tapes are in pretty tragic condition now, so
I'd love to see some sort of video series issued on DVD preferably.  One
can dream...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:50:05 -0400

    Yes, that's right, I don't think Steve DiGiorgio ever played with Cynic.
He was an excellent bassist, I remember him in the Vision of Misery album
(SADUS) playing a fretless bass, he was extremeley fast.

    I never heard ATHEIST's first album (I think it was called Piece of Time,
or something like that)  but I remember people talking about original
bassist Roger Paterson (?), that died before recording the second album
(Unquestionable Presence) and so they brought in Tony Choy.

    Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL
HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist.
He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it.
Anyone know any informaton on this?

Neil H. Enet
------------

PS:  Oh, in my metal days I used to listen to a lot of PUNGENT STENCH ...
they're not technical or progressive or anything, but they were a very fun
band.  Anyone know what happened to them?

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans
Sent: Martes, 29 de Agosto de 2000 09:21 a.m.
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]


Ehm, not totally true, I think. Steve DiGiorgo played with Death on
the 'Human' and 'Individual Thought Patterns' albums, but Death was always
something of a 'project-band', because the only person who played on all
their records is Chuck himself. Steve's own band was Sadus. But I'm not
sure whether Steve ever played in Cynic ...

Bye, Leon

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 [e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail]
> writes:
>
> << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember
having
>  ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which
>  people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy
>  (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).  Also PESTILENCE's last
>  album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.
>   >>
>
> Yes, I used to listen to all these bands.  I remember, about 7 years ago,
> when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to
> virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear
everything
> I wanted.  I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player,
though.
> I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now
> plays in Sadus?)?
>
> -matt mitchell
>
> -
>
>


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: great night music memories
Date: 29 Aug 2000 18:50:16 -0700

>>>Another time: Leonard Cohen backed up by his own trio of girl singers
plus
the vocalists from Was/Not Was with Sonny Rollins on sax. Dreamy. All the
best, Stephen<<<


Yes. Rollins' imrovisation on that song, 'Who By Fire', evoked a tune ending
bow of reverential gratitude from Cohen.

Also the only time this West Coaster has ever been able to see Herb
Robertson play.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Downtown" David Sanborn / Night Music
Date: 29 Aug 2000 08:53:28 -0500

That was really beautiful, but I think I like Conway Twitty singing "It's
Only Make Believe" with the Residents dancing behind him in eyeballs a
little more.

Ralph

At 08:25 PM 8/28/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>Best Night Music memory of all, however, would have to be Todd Rundgren,
Ellen
>Foley and Taj Mahal performing a scene from 'HMS Pinafore,' with Sanborn, Pat
>Metheny, Christian Marclay (!!!) and the Night Music band all dressed as
>sailors behind them...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:04:31 +0200

Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL
HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist.
He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it.
Anyone know any informaton on this?

(stefan)He made two albums (at least that are the ones I owne and am aware
of) that were published in Europe on the Roadrunner label. The style on
these albums? Like some of the bands that are mentioned here: "technical
death metal". The first one (don't have the titles here with me) however is
"typical" death metal.... you know, death-grunt style of singing. The second
one is in IMHO more balenced: the voice-style is more accessible (at least
you can understand what he is singing) and the guitar-lines are more
well-thought (catchy, more melody than just riffs,...).

Both albums still end in my cd player regularly...

Best wishes,

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal
Date: 29 Aug 2000 10:05:42 -0400

And talking about metal.  My local used CD shop has OLD's LE FLUX TUBE with
Mr. Zorn on "turbo sax on the title song" (I think).
Anyone got any opinions on this album?

Thanks in advance

Neil H. Enet
------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:55:00 +0200

Case wrote:
>  On the matter of metal, has anyone here got any thisng  to say about
Yngwie
> Malmsteen? I really like his earlier works with the very guitar orientated
pieces.
> Has anyone heard the fairly recent classical sympony for elctric guitar
that
> he released?

If a was to say anything about him i'd call him "the shit creator". The
worst musician on the planet IMHO. Kind of Ritchie Blackmore's inefficient
clone. And for those who think he's exceptionally fast, I suggest them
considering Nigel Mansell.


Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "sinkas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical
Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:49:43 +0930

Are my ears really that misguided?
I admit his shredding is waring a bit thin, thats why I asked about the new
Symphony piece.
Maybe I just love vikings, I hope I once was a viking....

Case

> If a was to say anything about him i'd call him "the shit creator". The
> worst musician on the planet IMHO. Kind of Ritchie Blackmore's inefficient
> clone. And for those who think he's exceptionally fast, I suggest them
> considering Nigel Mansell.
>
> Marcin Gokieli



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Spaans <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:59:27 +0200 (CEST)

Disincarnate (Dreams of the Carrion Kind) is a very very good album, If
you are into Death you could buy it without listening !!! And James Murphy
is an extremely talented guitar player ... but hey, that's my opinion ;-)

Wasn't this list about Zorn ?

Bye, Leon

ps. Disincarnate - Dreams of the Carrion Kind (Roadrunner: RR9102-2 1993,
Bryan Cegon - Vocals, James Murphy - Lead, Rhythm and Acoustic Guitar,
Jason Carman - Rhythm Guitar, Tommy Viator - Drums).

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Neil H. Enet wrote:

>     Yes, that's right, I don't think Steve DiGiorgio ever played with Cynic.
> He was an excellent bassist, I remember him in the Vision of Misery album
> (SADUS) playing a fretless bass, he was extremeley fast.
>
>     I never heard ATHEIST's first album (I think it was called Piece of Time,
> or something like that)  but I remember people talking about original
> bassist Roger Paterson (?), that died before recording the second album
> (Unquestionable Presence) and so they brought in Tony Choy.
>
>     Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL
> HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist.
> He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it.
> Anyone know any informaton on this?
>
> Neil H. Enet
> ------------
>
> PS:  Oh, in my metal days I used to listen to a lot of PUNGENT STENCH ...
> they're not technical or progressive or anything, but they were a very fun
> band.  Anyone know what happened to them?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans
> Sent: Martes, 29 de Agosto de 2000 09:21 a.m.
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: metal: black etc
>
>
> Ehm, not totally true, I think. Steve DiGiorgo played with Death on
> the 'Human' and 'Individual Thought Patterns' albums, but Death was always
> something of a 'project-band', because the only person who played on all
> their records is Chuck himself. Steve's own band was Sadus. But I'm not
> sure whether Steve ever played in Cynic ...
>
> Bye, Leon
>
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 8/29/00 12:03:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [e-mail]
> > writes:
> >
> > << when I listened to a lot of metal (a couple of years ago) I remember
> having
> >  ATHEIST's CDs, especially "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements", which
> >  people used to compare with CYNIC, because I think that bassist Tony Choy
> >  (?) used to play in CYNIC too (I could be wrong).  Also PESTILENCE's last
> >  album "Sphere" was pretty technical and progressive.
> >   >>
> >
> > Yes, I used to listen to all these bands.  I remember, about 7 years ago,
> > when I was just getting into this stuff, I had a friend who listened to
> > virtually ONLY metal, and had a HUGE collection, so I got to hear
> everything
> > I wanted.  I don't remember Atheist and Cynic sharing a bass player,
> though.
> > I thought maybe that the Cynic bass player used to play in Death (and now
> > plays in Sadus?)?
> >
> > -matt mitchell
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
>
> -
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matt Krefting" <[e-mail]>
Subject: lists
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:08:30 GMT

hi all
i was a dumb man and deleted the link to that "list of lists" (w/ the avant
garde list included). could someone kindly repost? thanks a bunch...
matt
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 09:40:12 -0700

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:59 AM

> Wasn't this list about Zorn ?

Ah, but as we've seen time and again, Zorn transcends all genres. =) Plus
you have Zorn's connections to metal/hardcore, so...

On that note, is there any sort of mailing list on all the folks we've
discussed so far? I've looked at a few lists and newsgroups, but the level
of discussion is quite sophomoric. And all the racism and homophobia is
quite appalling (check out alt.music.black-metal for that stuff).

Thanks in advance,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: great night music memories / Willner
Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:11:58 +0200



>Willner... same guy who did all those great tribute albums that exposed
>a generation to Zorn, Sharp et al - 'Amercord Nino Rota' (Rota,
>obviously, on Hannibal), 'That's the Way I Feel Now' (Monk, A&M), 'Lost
>in the Stars' (Weill, A&M - he did another Weill tribute on Columbia
>later but this one's better), 'Stay Awake' (Walt Disney music, A&M -
>featuring great interludes by Frisell, Horvitz & Ken Nordine) and 'Weird
>Nightmare' (Mingus, Columbia).  Willner used to be music director for
>Saturday Night Live, thus the connection to Lorne Michaels.
>
>Willner's most recent recording project, if I remember correctly, was a
>2CD set of Edgar Allan Poe poems and short stories, 'Closed on Account
>of Rabies,' on the Mouth Almighty label, 1997.  It featured readings by
>Marianne Faithfull, Christopher Walken, Iggy Pop, Jeff Buckley, Diamanda
>Galas and others, with some tracks featuring sampling and sound effects
>supplied by Willner, others featuring music by Wayne Kramer, Steven
>Bernstein, Chris Spedding, Marc Ribot & Dr. John, and the Jazz
>Passengers with Debbie Harry.
>
>And within the last two years here in New York, Willner mounted a couple
>of live concerts in tribute to the Harry Smith Anthology of American
>Folk Music...>

Right!

And don't forget his work  ons William Burroughs' 'Dead city radio' and
'Spare Ass Annie' and 'The Carl Stalling project'.

Jan Luyben


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Metal...Yngwie Malmsteen...Neo Classical
Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:44:41 -0400

"Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]> wrote about Malmsteen:

> If a was to say anything about him i'd call him "the shit creator". The
> worst musician on the planet IMHO. Kind of Ritchie Blackmore's inefficient
> clone. And for those who think he's exceptionally fast, I suggest them
> considering Nigel Mansell.

My favorite Yngwie quote (and I don't recall the source):
"The guitar is not a typewriter."
Ironic indeed.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:08:03 EDT

In a message dated 8/29/00 10:01:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL
 HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist.
 He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it.
 Anyone know any informaton on this? >>

He's also got at least one solo album on Shrapnel, doing the usual as usual
for that label- the jazz-influenced metal type thing.  Good stuff.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Doron Galili" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn cancel israel concert
Date: 29 Aug 2000 19:42:41 +0300

hello
as some of you maybe heard, zorn was about to play in israel in a
jazz-festival, this monday, with masada (not far from the original mountain,
actually) and Satlah.
news-papers wrote that due to graeg cohen's back problems they won't come.
it's been years since his last visit to a hebrew-speaking-country, (since
the jerusalem-live-album concert).

as they say in passover ceremony: "for the next year in jerusalem". we wish.

take care all,
doron

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sixun
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:23:14 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/2000 3:31:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> [e-mail] said:
>  > I was reading an interview with Gary Willis recently, and in it, the
>  > interviewer mentioned a band called Sixun.  A search for them or their
>  > records returned no responses.  Anyone got some info for me?
>
>  This is probably the best example of the terrible fusion plague that was
>  rampant in France in the late 80's/early 90's... Sixun, Uzeb and their
cohorts
>  were the purveyors of some of the worst outrages against music ever
committed.
>  Since this trend was unexplicably popular at one point, it was really easy
to
>  come by their stuff... if your local record store has one of those 'jazz
rock'
>  bins you might be able to find them. I'd recommend listening to them at
least
>  once to get an idea of how bad it was.

First of all, to the gentleman inquiring about live Tribal Tech, Sixun, etc.,
this is probably the wrong list.   Some of us Avant-Garde Jazz Snobbers are
easily intimidated by musicians with lots and lots of technical abilities.
Especially if they sell records !  Try signing up for the Fusenet list at
egroups.com.

I've never heard Sixun, but their guitarist Luis Winsberg put out a pretty
decent Fusion record maybe 8 or 10 years ago.

You can buy all Sixun CD's and pretty much every other CD by any well known
(or even obscure) fusion artist at:  audiophileimports.com.

-Jody

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Spaans <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 22:55:49 +0200 (CEST)

You're so very right ;-)
Which reminds me of this morning, when I bought a CD by Can, Slayer and
Captain Beefheart .... which made the recordstore-guy raise his eyebrows

Sorry to have shared this with you all ;-)

Bye, Leon

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Benito Vergara wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail]
> > [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Leon Spaans
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:59 AM
>
> > Wasn't this list about Zorn ?
>
> Ah, but as we've seen time and again, Zorn transcends all genres. =) Plus
> you have Zorn's connections to metal/hardcore, so...
>
> On that note, is there any sort of mailing list on all the folks we've
> discussed so far? I've looked at a few lists and newsgroups, but the level
> of discussion is quite sophomoric. And all the racism and homophobia is
> quite appalling (check out alt.music.black-metal for that stuff).
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ben
>
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
> ICQ# 12832406
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 30 Aug 2000 02:02:25 -0700

 . . . a CD by Can, Slayer and Captain Beefheart ....

There's a collaboration worthy of Night Music ....


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: borbetomagus (more rec's...)
Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:17:26 CDT

I'd like to know more about the music of Borbetomagus, and which of their
albums might be a better place than others to start.  I liek what I think
I've heard of Voice Crack, and I notice there's a longstanding VC/BM
connection.  COuld anyone offer some guidance?

Gracias,

----s
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: great night music memories / Willner
Date: 29 Aug 2000 16:36:42 -0600

>>And within the last two years here in New York, Willner mounted a couple
>>of live concerts in tribute to the Harry Smith Anthology of American
>>Folk Music...>
>
>Right!
>
>And don't forget his work  ons William Burroughs' 'Dead city radio' and
>'Spare Ass Annie' and 'The Carl Stalling project'.

Plus his production work with Marianne Faithful, Allen Ginsberg, Gavin
Friday, etc. - and his own sampledelic record, "Whoops I'm an Indian,"
released on Howie B.'s Pussyfoot label (and a bastard to find)...

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://freecenter.digiweb.com/music/RadioFreeNorman



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: glenn branca rec's requested
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:35:37 -0600


>I've heard much about his apparently cacophonous oeuvre, but I've never
>heard a note.  What's everybody's opinion of his work, and what
>recordings---especially of the symphonies---would you recommend?

I just listened to me recently aquired copy of "Symphony #2 (the Peak of the
Sacred)" and I'd recommend this one although I know nothing about the rest
of his music.  I started daydreaming during the fourth movement and my
daydreaming began to be influenced by the shifts in the music...then a
rainstorm began...so my opinion might be a little biased.

The recording quality isn't great.  I bet a lot is missed by listening to
Branca on recording vs. seeing a performance.

Matt Wirzbicki

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Naked City For Sale
Date: 29 Aug 2000 14:47:24 PDT

I have added another giant heap to eBay. More Zorn stuff, Wayne Horvitz
stuff, Fantomas, Marc Ribot etc. etc. etc. etc. and the cool Optical 8
cd's!!!!!

seller name is schules

Thanks!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: glenn branca rec's requested
Date: 29 Aug 2000 17:51:22 -0400

Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote:

> The recording quality isn't great.  I bet a lot is missed by listening to
> Branca on recording vs. seeing a performance.

Very much agreed. I was lucky enough to be in attendance at the Symphony
#2 concert, at St. Marks Church, NYC and it was a helluva lot more
visceral than comes through on the recording. The overtones sounded like
choirs nestled inside your cochlea! Plus, witnessing Z'ev twirling
basins and sheets of metal attached by 12-foot chains to his
wrists....well, you hadda be there.

I think The Ascension is a great place to start (it's available on Robi
Droli). Though more overtly rock-oriented than some of his later music,
the seeds are all planted. A great album, imho.

If you can locate it, I'd also suggest the soundtrack to Peter
Greenaway's film, "The Belly of the Architect" (on Les Disques du
Crepuscule). Though you're forced to wade through a bunch of third-rate
Glass by Wim Mertens, Branca's piece for string ensemble is superb.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Karuna Khyal (was: persepolis/dubravko detoni)
Date: 29 Aug 2000 19:33:20 EDT


In a message dated 8/29/00 12:09:40 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< anyone have any info about this band aside from the forced exposure blurb

and the review on motion 51?  it would be greatly appreciated. >>

the Motion review actually contains most of the public knowledge about the
band. nobody knows almost anything about either them or Brast Burn, including
Clive Graham of Paradigm. the CDs are actually bootlegs, althought not for
lack of trying to contact the musicians, with notes on them reading "Paradigm
Discs is interested in any communication with Voice records, Brast Burn,
Karuna Khyal, Toshiyuki Nemoto and Nakana record shop." here's a clip from
the press release, from the Dutch East India site (www.dutch-east.com):

<<"Debon" and "Alomoni 1985" are somewhat of a mystery. No group information
was ever given, and no production date nor nor location was ever indicated.
It would seem that both these records are by the same group of Japanese
artists and were recorded probably in the mid 70's. In common with Magical
Power Mako, the musical influences are very much Germanic, with a long
hypnotic freeform rock hysteria, comparable to Faust in the use of
experimentation and heavily fuzzed electric guitars. The emotional worldless
vocals echo those of Damo Suzuki from Can. But unlike Can, the rhythm is
wrought from hand drums, sleigh bells, tambourine, bass drum, and by other
simple means. Hard blown harmonica is a strong feature on this somewhat
crazed mantric rock along with recorder, flute, zither, mandolin acoustic
guitar, and synth. There is also a strong use of tape loops, electronics,
environmental sounds, backward tapes, and what sounds like the hysterical
laughter of Stan Laurel. >>

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:48:30 -0400

Hi all

I just got back from the CD store, which makes everyone here happy, and
picked up some stuff that I'm excited about: Panthalessa, The Beach Boys
"Friends/20/20", Esquivel, Otha Turner's Afrosippi Allstars, Eddie
Cochran double cd...

But I didn't get:

The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
and Ornette's
Three Women and Virgin Beauty

Has anybody heard these and care to comment.  I'm almost to the point
where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection
scares the hell out of me.

And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 21:07:33 -0400

Matt Laferty wrote:

> and Ornette's
> Three Women and Virgin Beauty

I'm not sure what "Three Women" is, but "Virgin Beauty" (the original
LP, in case it's been repackaged) is one of my _least_ favorite Ornette
releases--and I love Ornette. Lot of people like it, but it does nothing
for me.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Roberts/Dafeldecker - Aluminium; yet another excellent Erstwhile
release.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 21:24:53 EDT

In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2000  8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Matt Laferty <[e-mail]> writes:

<< Hi all

I just got back from the CD store, which makes everyone here happy, and
picked up some stuff that I'm excited about: Panthalessa, The Beach Boys
"Friends/20/20", Esquivel, Otha Turner's Afrosippi Allstars, Eddie
Cochran double cd... >>

Quite a diverse selection of stuff there.  The Beach Boys' _Friends/20/20_ 2fer is an oft-overlooked gem by those who know the group only from the _Pet Sounds_ axis.  Really great harmonies here.  _Panthalessa_ is a delight anytime- I really enjoy it.

<< But I didn't get:

The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
(snip)

And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >>

Isn't this box set comprised of the Projects stuff?  If so, it's their more "ambient/exploratory/jam" than most of KC's output.  I tend to gravitate toward the early KC stuff ala _Red_ and earlier...

Nice to be able to discuss some pseudo/non-Zorn here.  I keep waiting for the complaints to mount...

--
=dg=


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:51:54 -0400

On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 08:48:30PM -0400, Matt Laferty wrote:

> Has anybody heard these and care to comment.  I'm almost to the point
> where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection
> scares the hell out of me.

Don't worry about the Garcia. It's a good Prime Time record (if perhaps
not their best) and on a blind listen you'd never guess Garcia was on
it.

> And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste?

All King Crimson is immediately worth selling a relative to acquire.
But check what's on the box for overlap with what you have already.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 21:47:33 -0400

Well, the good thing it is, is that it's not necessarily non-zorn related:
Our man Z cites both Esquivel and Brian Wilson in his "Radio Hour," and his New Yorker magazine interview namedrops electric miles and field recordings from everywhere, ala the Otha Turner (which turns field recordings on its head, by mixing unashamedly
the musical traditions).   So I'd argue that it's all appropriately zorny.
(now that zorn is no longer a proper noun, but some kind of descriptor of something...)

I don't know about the King Crimson...I remember a 1991 date on it, and I think the discs had years on them...I was awash in records...I can't be sure.  I'm hoping for "rarities" or something...

Thanks--this is looking to be a pricier week than I imagined.  Good thing on Thursdays theres a buy 3 get one free...

Matt

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2000  8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Matt Laferty <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> << Hi all
>
> I just got back from the CD store, which makes everyone here happy, and
> picked up some stuff that I'm excited about: Panthalessa, The Beach Boys
> "Friends/20/20", Esquivel, Otha Turner's Afrosippi Allstars, Eddie
> Cochran double cd... >>
>
> Quite a diverse selection of stuff there.  The Beach Boys' _Friends/20/20_ 2fer is an oft-overlooked gem by those who know the group only from the _Pet Sounds_ axis.  Really great harmonies here.  _Panthalessa_ is a delight anytime- I really enjoy it.
>
> << But I didn't get:
>
> The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
> (snip)
>
> And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >>
>
> Isn't this box set comprised of the Projects stuff?  If so, it's their more "ambient/exploratory/jam" than most of KC's output.  I tend to gravitate toward the early KC stuff ala _Red_ and earlier...
>
> Nice to be able to discuss some pseudo/non-Zorn here.  I keep waiting for the complaints to mount...
>
> --
> =dg=
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:55:29 -0400

On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 09:24:53PM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
> In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2000  8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Matt Laferty <[e-mail]> writes:

> The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
> (snip)
>
> And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >>
>
> Isn't this box set comprised of the Projects stuff?  If so, it's their more "ambient/exploratory/jam" than most of KC's output.  I tend to gravitate toward the early KC stuff ala _Red_ and earlier...

That's what I thought he meant too, until i checked a discography. I
believe he saw "Frame by Frame: The Essential King Crimson", a
collection of 1969-1980s material, including a disk of at-the-time
otherwise-unreleased live stuff.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: documentary sound discography/resources
Date: 29 Aug 2000 22:00:41 -0400

http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/documentary.htm

I'm making a stab at collecting information about documentary sound (field
recordings, scientific sound, ambient sound; all non-musical even by our
pretty loose definitions).  If anybody has suggestions, corrections, etc
I'd like to hear about them.  (The criteria are basically: no processing,
no sounds created to be recorded and the recording must have been somehow
publicly available.)

Thanks, Lang

Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Toby Dodds" <[e-mail]>
Subject: 300 shows...
Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:06:48 -0700

300
Briggan Krauss - alto saxophone
Wayne Horvitz - keyboards
Kenny Wollesen - drums

09/06/00 (wed) - Sugar Refinery, Vancouver, BC
09/07/00 (thu) - Sam Bonds Garage, Eugene, OR
09/08/00 (fri) - OK Hotel, Seattle, WA
09/09/00 (sat) - Snake & Weasel, Portland, OR
*all shows with Tony Sherr Band opening!

Tony Scherr Band is:
Tony Scherr - guitar, vocals
Keith Lowe - bass
Kenny Wollesen - drums



hope you aren't reading this twice...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brandon Magee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:02:40 -0400 (EDT)

Verstraeten Stefan sleepily stated:

| Oh, and talking about DEATH, I remember his guitarist for the SPIRITUAL
| HEALING album, James Murphy, who everybody said he was a great guitarist.
| He later made one band called DISINCARNATE, but I never listened to it.
| Anyone know any informaton on this?
|
| (stefan)He made two albums (at least that are the ones I owne and am aware
| of) that were published in Europe on the Roadrunner label. The style on
| these albums? Like some of the bands that are mentioned here: "technical
| death metal". The first one (don't have the titles here with me) however is
| "typical" death metal.... you know, death-grunt style of singing. The second
| one is in IMHO more balenced: the voice-style is more accessible (at least
| you can understand what he is singing) and the guitar-lines are more
| well-thought (catchy, more melody than just riffs,...).

My first message to the Zorn list, and it is about my first love:
Metal. Somewhat bizzare, but there will be Zorn connections made.

James Murphy has also played with Testament. In fact, the last album
by Testament, the Gathering, also has the bassist from Sadus
(DiGregorio?) who was mentioned earlier as well as (Zorn Link here)
Dave Lombardo on drums. I have not yet heard this album, however most
Metal sites I have visited rated this release one of the best 10 metal
albums of 1999. The album is on Spitfire.

A discussion of Black Metal and Technical Metal would not be complete
without the mention of Mercyful Fate and King Diamond. I happen to
prefer KD above MF, but that is because KD tends to be more
technical, esp. the earlier albums like Abigal and Conspiracy. I'm a
big Andy LaRocque fan (he played on Death's Individual Thought
Patterns).

Watchtower was mentioned in this thread as well. I am very interested
in actual opinions on the first album (w/ singer Jason McMaster, who
later lead Dangerous Toys!). The guitarist on the second Watchtower
album, and of Spastic Ink fame is Jarzombek. I want to say his first
name is Ron, but I think that is his brother (who is a drummer).

Also, has anyone heard the rare Blind Illusion album? (This is an
album by, essentially, Primus from 1988).

The other variation of metal I am starting to explore more is the
so-called Melodic Death Metal, which includes such bands as In Flames
and Dark Tranquility (and, if you expand beyond Gotherburg, should
include the Finnish band Children of Bodom). Anyone have any thoughts?

And to think, with all of this Metal knowledge, my favorite Zorn
albums should be Naked City or Painkiller. But, it is the Masada's and
Spillane. Life is full of strange contradictions. :)

-Brandon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: virgin beauty/breuker's hunger
Date: 29 Aug 2000 20:25:21 -0700

yes, i'm a mong
those who consider ornette's virgin beauty possibly his best prime
time. "healing the feeling" would make my top 40 pop radio station.

martin

np. willem breuker kollektief "hunger" -- just got this and it's
terrific, the best breuker i've come across. as for filing systems,
this won't fit in any of my CD racks and i love it for that. if you're
not going to fit in the system, you'd better be exceptional. and this
is.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:43:39 -0500

Matt Laferty wrote:

> The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
> and Ornette's
> Three Women and Virgin Beauty
>
> Has anybody heard these and care to comment.  I'm almost to the point
> where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection
> scares the hell out of me.

As you've no doubt gleaned by now, opinion varies on 'Virgin Beauty.'  For
me, it's Ornette's "easy listening" album.  Garcia's contributions are
negligible, nearly inaudible in the mix.  This is much more reined in than
any of the earlier Prime Time albums, with production so slick and smooth
it's like a movie shot through a slightly Vaselined lens.  Yet there are
also some utterly beguiling melodies, and the band here (with Bern Nix and
Charlie Ellerbee) is preferable in my opinion to the one that followed
(heard on 'Tone Dialing').

'Three Women' is one half of Ornette's two-part 1996 release 'Sound
Museum,' and features an acoustic quartet with Geri Allen on piano,
Charnette Moffett on bass and Denardo Coleman on drums.  The drumming is
better than I might have anticipated, and the writing is strong, but this
one will largely succeed or fail on the strength of whether you feel a
piano ties down Coleman's unfettered melodicism.  Allen does a better job
than most might.

> And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste?

Depends on what you've got and what you might plan to acquire.  'Frame by
Frame' compiles the greatest hits of the years 1969-81.  There's a bit of
revisionism involved on the part of Fripp, as he has all traces of former
chum Gordon Haskell erased (supposedly at the latter's demand); you
therefore hear Adrian Belew's voice on a track from 1970 ("Cadence and
Cascade") and Tony Levin's bass on an instrumental from '71 ("Bolero").
The final disc consists of then-unreleased live material, but most of this
can be found elsewhere, especially the recent live sets 'Epitaph' (from
'69), 'The Nightwatch' (1974), and 'Absent Lovers' (1984).

If you're not planning to buy the rest of the studio albums, you don't want
the live albums mentioned and you think this set might do it for you, it's
recommendable.  The book is exemplary, including reprints of press
clippings, as much negative as positive, and the CD remastering is very
fine if not as extraordinary as the newest reissues of the studio albums
currently being reissued.  (For those who dig Crimson and haven't yet
checked into these newly remastered CDs, I can tell you that the sound is
revelatory in every instance, and it's just been announced that the great
'Larks'/'Starless'/'Red' trilogy will be reissued in October...)

Me, I've got about three feet of shelving space dedicated to Crimson CDs
legit and otherwise, so while I'm hardly objective, at least I might know
what I'm talking about... ;-)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - nothing, the sounds of James "Blood" Ulmer with John Hicks, Reggie
Workman and Rashied Ali at Sweet Basil still ringing in my ears...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M. pathos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: metal
Date: 30 Aug 2000 06:48:18 GMT

I'm surprised no-one's yet mentioned SIGH, a Japanese band who sound like
Venom covering "The Big Gundown" on both their excellent albums, the most
recent of which is "Scenario IV: Dead Dreams."

If you dig roots authenticity, I suggest anything by VENOM, and early MAYHEM
as this is where black metal started, before exaggeration made the genre
(too) ridiculous.

Also worth checking out: anything by NEUROSIS (tribal symphonic hardcore) or
SHELLAC (producer Steve Albini's current post-hardcore outfit).
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 09:06:22 +0200

> But I didn't get:
> The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
> And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste?

You mean Frame by Frame, the essential King Crimson
It depends on what you have... It has some special recordings not available
anywhere else - the most obviose should be cadence and cascade with Belew
overdubbing Haskell's vocals. But generally it's not that interesting,
especially now tha 24 bit remasters ore out. What is REALLY interesting is
another 4cd box, the great deceiver. It consisists of 4 cds of live
recordings form 72-73,  Don't get bothered by the fact that some songs are
repeated; that music is quite widely improvised, and the overall level is
incredible. Much better choice then Frame by Frame, especially if you have
some Crimson already. In the vein of Starless and Bible Black.
PS  As i have checked out, Steve Smith's info on the Frame by Frame is much
more accurate. But I'm sure he'd agree as to Great Deceiver.
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: looking for japanese pressing (slayer)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:57:23 +0200

Hello Zornmembers,

Since Dave Lombardo is now an official member of the downtown scene, I think
that I may ask this little question.

I am looking for the japanese pressing of the Slayer album - Decade of
Aggression.

I have the regular one, but the japanese pressing has some interesting bonus
tracks.

Anyone who wants to sell this album, or make a cd-r..... wich is possible,
since the japanese pressing is no longer in print.

Reply me off-line please,

Thanks in advance,

Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: metal
Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:49:24 +0200


> SHELLAC (producer Steve Albini's current post-hardcore outfit).


Shellac is really great, but hardly metal. Rather guitar noise. In this
genre also fantastic is German SURROGAT /CD's "Hobby", "Soul"/ or EWA BRAUN
/CD's "Esion", "Ses, sea"/ from Poland.
Also Polish - German outfit SPOKOJ /CD "Immer mit der Ruhe"/.
Polish black-metal groups worth listening are Vader , Behemoth and Lux
Occulta /very pagan stuff/.


Jerzy


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:08:26 GMT




----Original Message Follows----

and Ornette's
Three Women and Virgin Beauty

Has anybody heard these and care to comment.  I'm almost to the point
where any Ornette is good Ornette, but the Jerry Garcia connection
scares the hell out of me.
-

Virgin Beauty is a nice low-key Prime Time outing.  Tone Dialing is also
quite good.  Neither have the urgency of other Prime Time releases however.
They're not very artsy, and you won't find the theory of harmolodics
advancing far here.  But who cares.  They're both fun.  I generally prefer
"Of Human Feelings" and "In All Languages," which also has the quartet on
one disk.  I'm quite happy that this one became available again in the last
couple years after Caravan of Dreams drifted away into the ethosphere.

NP: Art Ensemble--Paris Session
STP (Soon To Play or Sensually Transmitted Pleasures):  The Tatum Group
Masterpieces
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 14:49:30 +0200

Hello zornmembers !

Two new releases seem to be planned on Winter & Winter for early Autumn
(seen on big online store):
    - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th).

    - "Alasnoaxis" by Jim Black (October 17th)

This sounds really interesting to me.... but does any of you have further
info on these future releases? .... (such as... Who is in the Amsterdam
String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but who else? Any comments on
their music? Who plays on the Jim Black album? Is it a regular band he is
leading? Has this band played concerts already? Impressions?, etc.....)

Thanks for your help.

Pascal.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Moudry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Three women / 'Nette
Date: 30 Aug 2000 07:52:31 -0500

At 21:07 29-08-00 -0400, Brian Olewnick wrote:
>Matt Laferty wrote:
>
>> and Ornette's
>> Three Women and Virgin Beauty
>
>I'm not sure what "Three Women" is, but "Virgin Beauty" (the original
>LP, in case it's been repackaged) is one of my _least_ favorite Ornette
>releases--and I love Ornette. Lot of people like it, but it does nothing
>for me.
>
>Brian Olewnick
>
>NP: Roberts/Dafeldecker - Aluminium; yet another excellent Erstwhile
>release.

I assume that "Three women" would be "The hidden museum : three women", one
of Ornette's better outings in recent memory (to these old earbones, at
least). Geri Allen's presence makes for very interesting music.

Hope this helps.

NP:Difference tones / Contrafactum (from Surrealestate)

Saturnally,
Joe Moudry,
Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz):
<http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry>
Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: new AUBE (no zorn content)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 16:17:49 +0200

Hello,

Yep, let me grap another chance to plug one of my favourite musicians called
AUBE.

The Italian label called Amplexus (the one that brought us the AUBE cd
Ricochetentrance) puts out a huge project, but very limited.

Below you will find the information.

The first 6 are allready published and they sound great as allways.

Best wishes,

Stefan Verstraeten

NP Merzbox: Mort aux Vaches

----------------
Original message
----------------
MILLENNIUM

a new project by A U B E

A musical project that will chatch your mind and soul for one year time:
AUBE, a well-know genius of the international scene, will offer you one of
the great events of 2000; he will dedicate to the first year of the new
millennium a monumental sonic opera in twelwe chapters. Every month of the
new year will offer you a tast of AUBE's artistic talent; a sedicing mixture
of obscure influences and experimental excursions, from noisy structures to
ambient landscapes. From January to December, along the four seasons, from a
solstice to an equinox, AUBE will lead you in a pleasant one year period
journey from the dawn of first day to the twilight of the last one, with the
ideal soundtrack for the beginnin of a new era. For this exciting sequence
of emotional dates, ARMONIKA is creating a high quality releasing plan: each
compact disc will be out in 500 copies strictly limited edition, with
exclusive artistic cover. Each month a chapter will be released, but it will
be possible to sign a subscription in order to get the entire work: the
subscription include all 12 CD in a special handnumbered edition and a
special DOUBLE LP manufactured for the subscribers ONLY and including all
exclusive material.
ATTENTION: ONLY 120 subscriptions are possible.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:35:11 -0400

Hello,

>    - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th).

>(...) Who is in the Amsterdam String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but
>who else?

To my knowledge, the Amsterdam String Trio is:

Maurice Horsthuis: alto
Ernst Glerum: bass
Ernst Reijseger: cello

Please correct me if I am wrong...

Mathieu


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    "Carolyn Sills" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn cancel israel concert
Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:41:36 -0400

Zorn will be playing Music of Masada in New York City on October 16, 2000 at
Merkin Concert Hall. It is part of his reign as "featured composer" at
Merkin Hall for the 2000-2002 seasons. He will be performing often there
over the two year period, giving talks and having "last minute concerts"
where he will spontaneously decide to perform on random evenings. If you
want more info on it, go to www.ekcc.org and look under Merkin Concert Hall.
Or you can call the box office at [phone].

Carolyn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 12:42 PM


> hello
> as some of you maybe heard, zorn was about to play in israel in a
> jazz-festival, this monday, with masada (not far from the original
mountain,
> actually) and Satlah.
> news-papers wrote that due to graeg cohen's back problems they won't come.
> it's been years since his last visit to a hebrew-speaking-country, (since
> the jerusalem-live-album concert).
>
> as they say in passover ceremony: "for the next year in jerusalem". we
wish.
>
> take care all,
> doron
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:46:38 -0500


Marcin Gokieli wrote:

> PS  As i have checked out, Steve Smith's info on the Frame by Frame is much
> more accurate. But I'm sure he'd agree as to Great Deceiver.

Yes, I would.  But as for accuracy, I should correct one tiny detail - 'Frame
by Frame' covers 1969-1984, not 1969-1981.  Gotta doublecheck before I hit
send, really...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: oxy morons
Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:04:23 -0000

Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list???
Anyway, long live the Sabs!

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:39:12 -0400

On Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 12:08:26PM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote:

> Virgin Beauty is a nice low-key Prime Time outing.  Tone Dialing is also
> quite good.  Neither have the urgency of other Prime Time releases however.
> They're not very artsy, and you won't find the theory of harmolodics
> advancing far here.  But who cares.  They're both fun.  I generally prefer
> "Of Human Feelings" and "In All Languages," which also has the quartet on
> one disk.  I'm quite happy that this one became available again in the last
> couple years after Caravan of Dreams drifted away into the ethosphere.

This reminds me: is anyone alive at harmolodic.com? The pages don't seem
to have changed in months. Is the label still alive, or has it been
eaten in a merger or something?

The two CDs you mention are definitely my fave Prime Time CDs. Those
who want the CD of "In All Languages", though, should note that it's
a single disc, containing the contents of the two vinyl discs. And
AFAIK, "Of Human Feelings" only came out on CD in Japan. I found it
(for more than I wanted to pay) on eBay.

--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:59:04 GMT




----Original Message Follows----

The two CDs you mention are definitely my fave Prime Time CDs. Those
who want the CD of "In All Languages", though, should note that it's
a single disc, containing the contents of the two vinyl discs. And
AFAIK, "Of Human Feelings" only came out on CD in Japan. I found it
(for more than I wanted to pay) on eBay.
-

Yes, that's right Joseph.  I actually own both the vinyl and the CD and had
forgotten that fact.  And it's sad as well that "Of Human Feelings" remains
for me only on a somewhat scratched piece of vinyl.  I'll keep my fingers
crossed that Harmolodic will return and issue it on CD.

NP:  Steve Roach on mp3
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Odp: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:14:37 EDT

In a message dated 8/30/00 3:12:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< What is REALLY interesting is another 4cd box, the great deceiver. It
consisists of 4 cds of live recordings form 72-73,  Don't get bothered by the
fact that some songs are repeated; that music is quite widely improvised, and
the overall level is
 incredible. >>

Nothing much to add other than a "thumbs up" from me too, on this set.  I
bought it when it first came out around 5-6 years ago, IIRC.  It has recently
been remastered/reissued, and supposedly sounds wonderful.

Marcin- does this reissue contain any new material at all?

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:18:56 -0500 (CDT)

> Two new releases seem to be planned on Winter & Winter for early Autumn
>
>        - "Alasnoaxis" by Jim Black (October 17th)
>
> This sounds really interesting to me.... but does any of you have
> further info on these future releases?

Alasnoaxis is Jim Black (drums), Chris Speed (reeds), Hillmar Jenson
(guitar), and Skuli Sverrison (elec bass).  Some blurbs I've seen on the
web for their infrequent gigs include such curious descriptors as
"smallprov song chop" and "electronic hard crawl."  The latter reminds
me of Jim gushing in an old Modern Drummer interview about Squarepusher
and a handful of other electronica programmers, so I'm guessing the
influence of that whole movement may rear its head with this band.  Of
course, I really have no idea, but am nevertheless very excited about this
record - Jim is probably my favorite drummer (at the very least, favorite
young drummer) playing today and the Pachora and Human Feel records have
revealed him to be an clever composer as well.  Anyone out there actually
heard this band?  Steve?  Matt?

And if the above image of downtowners attacking electronica sounds
interesting to you, Jamie Saft's 'Sovlanut' might very possibly be worth
your while: Saft (keys) , Chris Speed, Jim Black, and Groove Collective
bassist Jason Maron playing Jewish and Middle Eastern themes over a crazy
backdrop of live drum'n'bass and dub.  Mmm mmm good.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:34:36 -0500

Joseph Zitt wrote:

> This reminds me: is anyone alive at harmolodic.com? The pages don't seem
> to have changed in months. Is the label still alive, or has it been
> eaten in a merger or something?

They do seem to be rather slow, don't they?  I'd expected that the label would
meet its end in the Universal/Polygram merger, but this seems not to have been
the case.  There was talk on the Ornette list not so long ago about some new
releases pending, but I can't remember what they were.  Anyone?

Harmolodic threw one hell of 70th birthday party for Ornette here in Manhattan.
Friends told me about it later... wish I could have been there.  Patti Smith got
up and introduced Ornette, who then proceeded to play duets with Charlie Haden,
a trio with Charnett Moffett and Denardo, a duet with Joachim Kuhn, a quartet
with Dewey Redman, Charnett and (I think) Denardo, and an expanded Prime Time:
Badal Roy on tabla, Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Chris Walker on basses, Kenny Wessel,
Chris Rosenberg and Charlie Ellerbee on guitars, Dave Bryant on piano, Calvin
Weston on drums, Graham Haynes on cornet.  The mind reels.  Even Stanley Crouch
got up on stage and proclaimed Coleman a genius.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ornette Coleman & Joachim Kuhn, "Refills," 'Colors' (Harmolodic)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: oxy morons
Date: 30 Aug 2000 18:44:02 +0200



> Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list???
> Anyway, long live the Sabs!


Yez. Satan rulez :)))
666


Jerzy



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 17:05:27 +0200

> - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th).
>

> ... Who is in the Amsterdam
> String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but who else? Any comments on
> their music?

The Amsterdam String Trio is one of my favorite groups ever. Being a total
stranger to most of the music discussed there recently ( I saved some post
in amazement to the knowledge and information contained) I feel happy I can
contribute something. In addition to Ernst Reijseger, the other players are
Ernst Glerum - current bassist with Misha Mengelberg's ICP orchestra - and
Maurice Horsthuis, viola. The Trio has been "dormant" for years following
one of those breakdowns that happen between creative hardheaded people, but
its only two official records - one Lp and one Cd - are excellent examples
of integration between melody, composition, free improvisation and that
healthy dose of humour that seems a typical ingredient of Dutch jazz (see
Dutch Swing by K. Whitehead if you do not know it already). Horsthuis is a
beautiful composer, his orchestra Amsterdam Drama being for me inexplicably
not considered at the top of the European scene: think of a melodical flow
reminiscent of Schubert played through a modern (not pm) sensitivity. You
could say that these guys defined "chamber jazz" ten and more years ago. I
managed to slip this trio in a classical series of concerts here in Pisa,
reaching an all-time low attendance as the jazz people didn't come
(classical?) and the classical people didn't come either (who's the
Composer?). The 12 presents loved it though, and I regularly use its music
as an introduction to European Free Improvisation for classical musicians,
with great results. I think the AST was revived only 2 years ago, at the
Horthuis 50th Birthday Party at the Bim, and I look forward to have them
record and tour again regularly.
Finally, I want to mention that Zorn once played in a Dutch group lead by
Maarten Altena called from A(ltena) to Z(orn) - in fact some of the music in
Masada remind me often of early Dutch "chamber jazz" (Janssen, Altena,
Reijseger and such).
Still trying to figure out differences between death metal noise grind and
skronk...
Francesco

_________________
Francesco Martinelli
Lungarno Mediceo 10
56127 PISA ITALY
email: [e-mail]
webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/
fax [phone]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: ornette/roulette
Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:05:17 -0500


no one's mentioned the one perk of 'virgin beauty' -- having in your collection
a track entitld "singing in the shower (with jerry garcia)".

also, nyers anyway, i just stumbled on the fall roulette sked, postd on the web
site (roulette.org). killer stuff. the best overall season they've had in some
years, methinks.

np: bradford reed - live at home



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Lankin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 14:27:11 -0400

Does W&W have a website or email address?

Alan


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:49:45 CDT

>From: "Alan Lankin" <[e-mail]>
>Does W&W have a website or email address?

The website has been:

http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de

though as of late, there has been no response.  What a waste!

----s





_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 30 Aug 2000 14:51:54 EDT

[e-mail] writes:
> Does W&W have a website or email address?

Not that I'm aware of (i asked this on another list months ago), a web search
gave me nothing, and it wasn't listed on the Independent Record labels page:
<http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/elabels.html>

There is, however, a list (in German, i think) of some of their recordings:
http://www.edel.de/sndtrack/winter.htm

jeff caltabiano
n.p. woody shaw: the iron men

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: cute message from Aldo, our favorite record owner
Date: 30 Aug 2000 12:05:10 -0700


Picked up on r.m.b.:

------- Forwarded Message

Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote

I wish to inform you that within September I will put in sale my
private collection of the Lp's of HORO RECORDS.  The Lp's are all
originates them, still in cellophane, prints in years '70.  You will
find all the news c/o the website ones:  aldosinesioeditore.it
Aldo Sinesio

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

------- End of Forwarded Message


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: NYC show Friday: Dean Roberts/Haunted House at Tonic
Date: 30 Aug 2000 17:11:35 EDT

sorry for the NYC-centric nature of this, but it was just added to Tonic's
schedule for this Friday, 9/1. the Wine Thieves actually consist of Dean, Tim
and Matt Valentine of Tower Recordings, although Alan Licht will indeed be
added for this show. they'll be performing songs, some from Dean's Ritornell
record, with Dean on vocals. this is their debut performance.


Dean Roberts & the Wine Thieves plus Haunted House
at 8:00pm, $8 Double Bill
Dean Roberts & the Wine Thieves : With Dean Roberts (guitar, electronics),
Tim Barnes (drums), & Alan Licht (vibes). New Zealand's Dean Roberts has been
running around with the Vienna powerbook crowd lately (check out his new CD
w/Werner Dafeldecker on Erstwhile), but tonight he hooks up with NYC amigos
Barnes and Licht to kick out the jams.

Haunted House : With Loren Mazzacane Connors (guitar), Suzanne Langille
(vocals), Andrew Burnes (guitar), & Neel Murgai (Persian daf). Loren
Mazzacane's desolate blues band returns to the Tonic stage for the first time
since the historic Mazza-thon last October.


Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Dave responds !!!
Date: 28 Aug 2000 06:37:33 +0200

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the email.
As you can probably imagine, I was asked this question a lot on my trip to
Argentina. Misha M. and I went to hear the quintet of Horacio Salgan, tango
pianist and composer. It was just fantastic -- interactive and dynamic and
beautiful. Even Misha liked it...
So, maybe some day. Piazzola's music is hard to touch because it's so
perfect and so many people have been covering it. Perhaps it would be
better covered by a metal band...
Happy listening,
Dave Douglas


>    Hi Dave,   Needless to say that it is my  admiration which drives me
>to ask if you'll ever consider doing a Piazolla  recording with, for
>example, the Charms group ?    Rob  Allaert,  Belgium

     http://www.frontstage.com/rob
   "The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening
     as the performer to playing". ________________________________________

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Risser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: question
Date: 30 Aug 2000 21:10:36 -0400

> > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
> > (snip)
> >
> > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >>

I know of two KC box sets.  One is a collection of stuff from albums, with
some live stuff intersprinkled and the KC Barbershop Quartet, which is cute.
The other is a four CD of pure live stuff.  I believe that all the live
stuff (like Doctor Diamond, which rules) from the first box is on the live
box.  And, of course, Fripp being Fripp, he has probably since re-mastered
all THAT live stuff as well.  In any case, the first set is a nice overview,
but if you've already got the stuff from 1969-1980's, you've got almost
everything on there.  Alas.

Peter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: metal:  black etc
Date: 30 Aug 2000 20:24:04 -0700 (PDT)

 ate: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:02:40 -0400 (EDT)



The other variation of metal I am starting to explore more is the
so-called Melodic Death Metal, which includes such bands as In Flames
and Dark Tranquility (and, if you expand beyond Gotherburg, should
include the Finnish band Children of Bodom). Anyone have any
thoughts?


- -Brandon

Yes. It's not that good, mostly. Dark Tranquility has some nice
passages but the vocals ruin the whole thing... and I never really
liked In Flames or Children of Bodom that much...

Someone mentioned the great Austrian band Pungent Stench... well,
they broke up in 1996 I think and released a posthumous compilation
of rarities and such in 1998 called "Praise the Musical Assassins",
which is a MUST!!!

Viva la muerte,

A

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dead Reckoning
Date: 31 Aug 2000 01:29:55 -0500

Dear Z-listers:

I'm sure there are dozens of more "appropriate" and logical sources to
which I could have turned with this request, but as yours are the voices
I've come to know and trust, I turn once more to you.

I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead, and I'd
like to know what recordings you recommend for getting started.  As you
might expect, my own Dead collection at this point is minimal: John
Oswald's "Dark Star" pastiche 'Greyfolded' and the band's own improv
tapestry 'Infrared Roses,' plus one of the 'Dick's Picks' volumes
purchased this evening after hearing it over the weekend at a friend's
house.

I've heard that there are brilliant and innovative things in the band's
early output, and I also kinda like the low-intensity burn of the live
set I bought, though even I can tell that this is far from prime Dead -
Jerry just sounds ragged and the keyboards sound oh-so-'80s even though
it's a show from 1990.

And thus, I turn to you.  As I can't really imagine much Zorn content in
such a discussion (certainly far less than in a discussion of metal),
private responses are more than welcome.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Grateful Dead, "Morning Dew," 'Dick's Picks, Vol. 9' (Grateful
Dead)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning
Date: 30 Aug 2000 23:28:34 -0700

Steve Smith wrote:
>=20
> I've heard that there are brilliant and innovative things in the band's
> early output, and I also kinda like the low-intensity burn of the live
> set I bought, though even I can tell that this is far from prime Dead -
> Jerry just sounds ragged and the keyboards sound oh-so-'80s even though
> it's a show from 1990.

The stuff that you really need to hear would basically be _Anthem of the =
Sun_,
the second album, which include some brief, fairly warped concr=E9te intr=
usions
and one of their feedback workouts, along with the original version of on=
e of
their concert staples ("The Other One") and a kazoo chorale; and _Live De=
ad_,
the fourth album, which pretty much defines what they did as improvisors =
on the
first two sides, and has a brilliant feedback section (called "Feedback")=
 on
side 4 (I doubt I've willingly listened to the 15-minute "Turn On Your
Lovelight" on side 3 in the last 20 years, tho). I've never been very fon=
d of
_Aoxomoxoa_, the third album -- it just seems an unfocussed mess; after t=
hat,
they went directly to the Americana stuff that ruined 'em for me on _Work=
ingmans
Dead_ and _American Beauty_. The _Fillmore East 2/69_ set that came out a=
 couple
years ago has some moments -- they were an opening act, so everything's r=
eally
concise & condensed, which some might say is a big plus in the Dead's cas=
e ;-)
... I haven't heard Dick's Pick #16 (Fillmore Aud. 11/69) but judging fro=
m the
track titles & timings (34 minutes of "Caution Do Not Stop On Tracks"/"Fe=
edback"
jam) my guess is that this would do you well if the recording quality's u=
p to
snuff.

Garcia's first solo album (the one on Warners with the fake Dali cover, *=
not*
the one on Round with the fake Peter Max cover) has some fairly outside
electronic stuff on it, aside from _Seastones_ probably the stuff that wo=
uld
seem most "experimental" to now-ears.

_Seastones_ is a duo album by Phil Lesh and Ned Lagin which was Phil's
opportunity to stand up & say "See, I *did* go to graduate school."
All-electronic and essential.

_Blues for Allah_ from 75 was something of a return to form -- the materi=
al that
takes up most of side one ("Help on the Way", "Franklin's Tower", etc.) p=
rovided
them with the foundation for some serious improvisation for a change (wri=
ting
material that was *appropriate* to jam on was a knack they'd sorta lost i=
n the
interim); the versions on the album are very good for a change, and they =
did
some great live shows during this period, none of which I think have made=
 it to
Dick's Picks yet but if the Great American Music Hall or the Orpheum Thea=
tre or
the Cow Palace in '76, should turn up, any of those is likely to be prett=
y hot,
depending on which show of each run they pick; I haven't heard the Winter=
land
'77 one but I was there & I don't remember it being that great). Anyway, =
side
two of _Blues for Allah_ features some extended studio-as-instrument stuf=
f which
holds up well still (I just played it a week or so ago, it worked for me
anyway).

I don't really rate any of the 80s or 90s stuff at all ... the keyboard p=
layers
from those decades just plain bit, sorry.

--=20
Jim Flannery                                        [e-mail]

         "My hair has grown thin thinking of music."
                                             -- I Wayan Lotring

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Date: 31 Aug 2000 09:30:48 +0200

I don't think there W&W has an official website yet.
Anyway, for any contact:

Winter & Winter,
Osterwaldstrasse 10,
Haus 19,
D-80805 Munich,
Germany

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


Pascal.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: question
Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:03:40 +0200


> Nothing much to add other than a "thumbs up" from me too, on this set.  I
> bought it when it first came out around 5-6 years ago, IIRC.  It has
recently
> been remastered/reissued, and supposedly sounds wonderful.
> Marcin- does this reissue contain any new material at all?

As far as i know, it doesn't.

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought
Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:34:29 +0200

hi y'all.

bought a new cd yesterday that totally amazes me; i'm spellbound...

traditional music from uzbekistan, sung by female singer munadjat
yulchieva, who is accompanied by the ensemble shavkat mirzaev; plus some
guest musicians.

both, the language and the music, remind of of some arab, turkish and
armenian stuff i've heard.

some of the sounds you hear on this cd are simply magic! maybe that has
to do with the fact that the music - according to the liner notes - is
all about trying to get closer to god.

the label, world network (as far as i can make out, it's owned by german
tv channel "wdr - westdeutscher rundfunk"), included a catlogue; they've
got an awful lot of releases of traditional music from around the world.
some of their cds have won international music awards.

i can only recommend this cd; and probably the label, too.

patRice


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: virgin beauty/breuker's hunger
Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:49:02 +0200


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Aan: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Datum: woensdag 30 augustus 2000 5:27
Onderwerp: virgin beauty/breuker's hunger



>np. willem breuker kollektief "hunger" -- just got this and it's
>terrific, the best breuker i've come across. as for filing systems,
>this won't fit in any of my CD racks and i love it for that. if you're
>not going to fit in the system, you'd better be exceptional. and this
>is.


Willem Breuker has from the beginning been interested in deviated packings
for his music. The big music companies wouldn't bring out the kind of music
he and others were making. So in 1973/1974 he and pianoplayer Leo Cuypers
founded their own record company called 'BV Haast' (this means something
like 'Hurry up'). The packings often demonstrate a kind of stubbornnes in
the sense that they weren't always easy to fit in the racks, just like the
music that was difficult to classify (at that time that is).
Check f.i. 'Pakkepapen' or 'Heibel' (genuine camembert-box). One of the
first was a Willem Breuker/Leo Cuypers record in a big triangular sleeve
that drove storekeepers and collectors up the wall.

Jan Luyben


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought
Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:53:34 +0200

I'll second PatRice, this album by Munadjat Yulchieva (the only one I have
by her) is really beautiful and I would also recommend it to any world trad
fan. Other beautiful release from the same label (World Network) that comes
to my mind is "Syria; Hamza Shakkur (voc) + ensemble Al Kindi". Great
persian music and beautiful singer. Maybe more will come to mind later...

By the way... any Oum Kalsoum recommendations ??? I heard one piece, "Al
Atlal" from a concert tape... it was really fantastic !!

Pascal

At 10:34 31/08/00 +0200, PatRice wrote:
>hi y'all.
>
>bought a new cd yesterday that totally amazes me; i'm spellbound...
>
>traditional music from uzbekistan, sung by female singer munadjat
>yulchieva, who is accompanied by the ensemble shavkat mirzaev; plus some
>guest musicians.
>
>both, the language and the music, remind of of some arab, turkish and
>armenian stuff i've heard.
>
>some of the sounds you hear on this cd are simply magic! maybe that has
>to do with the fact that the music - according to the liner notes - is
>all about trying to get closer to god.
>
>the label, world network (as far as i can make out, it's owned by german
>tv channel "wdr - westdeutscher rundfunk"), included a catlogue; they've
>got an awful lot of releases of traditional music from around the world.
>some of their cds have won international music awards.
>
>i can only recommend this cd; and probably the label, too.
>
>patRice
>
>
>-
>
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:24:42 +0200

Hello,

Does anyone on this list heard this release or knows something about this
figure?

It seems interesting.

Thanks in advance,

Stefan Verstraeten

Raymond Scott:manhattan research inc.

No doubt Raymond Scott is/was one of the most important people when it comes
down to anything connected with electronic music. this hefty compilation
collects unreleased material from the fifties/sixties ranging from tv
commercials to experiments.... Rs not only delivers the music, he also build
his own instruments as shown/written in the 144 page booklet accompagnying
this wonderfull release. Absolutelly essential for professors in
musichistories, analists, freakshows, and hip/trendy technoguys. this guy
showed the way for lots of us, including Kraftwerk, Motown, and probably
even some very young foetusses from The Wire... bloody recommended

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Oum Kalsoum
Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:30:18 +0200

> By the way... any Oum Kalsoum recommendations ??? I heard one piece, "Al
> Atlal" from a concert tape... it was really fantastic !!

I'd give some as I have an extensive collection of cassettes, video and cds
but after the deafening silence followed to my post on the AST I'll refrain
to it and go back to the Cd player to listen to some death trash blind
violent bloody metal.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ljova" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 05:26:28 -0400

Stefan --

Raymond Scott is indeed very interesting -- an experimental composer whose
music just happened to get used in cartoons.

There's a big website about him (built by some dedicated fans) at
http://www.RaymondScott.com/

And there's a CD of his own Original Sextet recordings on Columbia. Not sure
if it's been deleted.


-Ljova


--------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
[e-mail]
http://Ljova.com

"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
        -Miles Davis

> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Comments on Raymond Scott?
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Does anyone on this list heard this release or knows something about this
> figure?
>
> It seems interesting.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeroen de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:28:37 GMT+0100


Just buy it as fast as you can!!!!!!!!!! This is really amazing stuff.

Jeroen



> Hello,
>
> Does anyone on this list heard this release or knows something about
> this figure?
>
> It seems interesting.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Stefan Verstraeten
>
> -------------------------------------
> Raymond Scott:manhattan research inc.
>
> No doubt Raymond Scott is/was one of the most important people when it
> comes down to anything connected with electronic music. this hefty
> compilation collects unreleased material from the fifties/sixties
> ranging from tv commercials to experiments.... Rs not only delivers
> the music, he also build his own instruments as shown/written in the
> 144 page booklet accompagnying this wonderfull release. Absolutelly
> essential for professors in musichistories, analists, freakshows, and
> hip/trendy technoguys. this guy showed the way for lots of us,
> including Kraftwerk, Motown, and probably even some very young
> foetusses from The Wire... bloody recommended
>
> -
>


Jeroen de Boer
              music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation
              Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen
              The Netherlands
              tel/fax: [phone]
              gsm: [phone]
              [e-mail]

http://www.cyberslag.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought
Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:39:07 +0200

pascal,

thanks for the recommendation; i'll check that cd out, too.

i'll also try to find out if there is any info available on the net for the
world network label.

have you ever seen a catalogue of their releases? they've got an impressive
list of very interesting stuff: klezmer, sufi music, music from algeria,
armenia, india, some different greek regions, etc. etc. etc. absolutely
interesting cds! another label i've discovered that will make me spend more
and more money... ;-)
but this traditional/ethnic music is what has really been doing it for me
recently. with a bit of napalm death thrown in every now and then...

patRice


Pascal Cortes wrote:

> fan. Other beautiful release from the same label (World Network) that comes
> to my mind is "Syria; Hamza Shakkur (voc) + ensemble Al Kindi". Great
> persian music and beautiful singer. Maybe more will come to mind later...
>
> By the way... any Oum Kalsoum recommendations ??? I heard one piece, "Al
> Atlal" from a concert tape... it was really fantastic !!
>
> Pascal


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd i bought
Date: 31 Aug 2000 12:20:02 +0200

No, I've never seen their catalogue, but they are well distributed here in
France, so I've seen many of their releases in stores. Great stuff.
Contact info:

[e-mail]
post: NETWORK Medien GmbH
Merianplatz 10
D-60316 Frankfurt
Germany
tel: ++49 (0) 69/ 4 99 00 40. fax: same, but for last two digits: ++49(0)
69/ 4 99 00 97

Other great world/trad label doing it for me is Ocora ( website in french:
http://www.radio-france.fr/divers/boutique/index.php?rayon=musique).
Available on the other side of Atlantic from Verge Music Distribution
(http://www.vergemusic.com/cookiePass.cfm). From the Indian and Pakistanese
"classics" (Shankar, Ali Khan) to.... almost anything, including Munadjat
Yulchieva from Usbekistan (sp. changes).


Pascal.


Pascal.

Pascal.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning
Date: 31 Aug 2000 07:36:49 -0400

At 01:29 AM 8/31/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead

I can do little more than second the recommendations for Anthem of the Sun
and the Live Dead.  I started going through my Dead collection a while
back, and was drawn to Live Dead because of Dark Star (and the Oswald
connection).  When the Feedback track came on, I actually got up to see the
cover, to make sure something else hadn't somehow snuck into the speakers.

And WRT Anthem, years ago I had a chance to spend a little time with Bill
Payne, the keyboard player of Little Feat.  He practiced Bach for a couple
of hours each day 'for technique', so we discussed various classical
composers.  I mentioned Cage, which he dismissed, until I also mentioned
that the Dead used prepared piano on Anthem.  Shook him up a little bit
(although I never heard any prepared piano on any Feats album).  Anyway,
it's definitely the furthest out of any of their studio albums.

And a discussion of one of John Oswald's sources is more closely related to
Zorn than a lot of what goes on around here (not that I'm complaining about
any of it -- the eclecticity is what makes this list great)...

--
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

-- Satchel Paige

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: radio france label(was: NO ZORN CONTENT! - great new cd)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:40:55 +0200

hi again, pascal!

oh yeah, radio france's label! absolutely great!

we used to also get radio france via cable here. they always played lots of
great and interesting music! unfortunately we don't receive it here anymore.
:-( i hate listening to the radio, but radio france was a big time exception.

their label also has some very interesting african stuff out, for those of you
who are into that.

patRice


Pascal Cortes wrote:

>
> Other great world/trad label doing it for me is Ocora ( website in french:
> http://www.radio-france.fr/divers/boutique/index.php?rayon=musique).
> Available on the other side of Atlantic from Verge Music Distribution
> (http://www.vergemusic.com/cookiePass.cfm). From the Indian and Pakistanese
> "classics" (Shankar, Ali Khan) to.... almost anything, including Munadjat
> Yulchieva from Usbekistan (sp. changes).


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Network (was: NO ZORN CONTENT)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 14:07:53 +0200

Here is the website for the german world/trad label Networks (just found it):

http://www.networkmedien.de/


Pascal.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning
Date: 31 Aug 2000 12:23:07 GMT




----Original Message Follows----

I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead, and I'd
like to know what recordings you recommend for getting started.
------------------------

I can't really listen to the Dead anymore for reasons that have little to do
with the band.  But back in the days when I was into the band, the records I
played the most were "Europe '72," "Terrapin Station," and "Workingman's
Dead."  The "Live Dead" was also quite good.  Were I to turn back to the
Dead now, I would pick up "Europe '72" first.  They hit a groove at that
point and nothing that followed in the eighties and nineties, as Jim noted,
had the same sense after the band had become a substantial commercial
success.  They were accomplished improvisers who probably just became a bit
bored playing the same stuff every night to the relentless cult that
surrounded them.  I like some of Jerry's playing with David Grisman which I
still spin once in a blue moon.

NP: Boniche Dub
STP:  Jah Wobble, Molam Dub
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Test
Date: 30 Aug 2000 10:53:52 +0100

Disregard the test or else play some death metal to accompany it.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:13:50 +0100



Nils wrote:

> the rack is set up so the easiest to reach is the bottom.
> people who visit my house and want to choose music inevitably
> get pissed off that they are too short to reach the music they like.
>

Alphabetically.  I keep the stuff that the short people (wife and kids) like on
the bottom shelf.  I don't want to piss *them* off.

> man i really need to get that braxton solo disc.

Run, don't walk, to the nearest store that has it.  Stunning.

--Mike



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 11:18:04 +0100



Arthur Gadney wrote:

> Hey,
>
> >records collection = penis size ?
>

It's an inverse relationship.  I'm proud to say that I have one of the
smallest collections on this list.

--Mike



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Braxton solo in question (was: genres)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 11:04:36 CDT

> > man i really need to get that braxton solo disc.
>
>Run, don't walk, to the nearest store that has it.  Stunning.
>
>--Mike

I checked the archives and still I'm not sure which Brax solo Nils and Mike
were talking about.  FOR ALTO?  OR something new?

---s
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question (was: genres)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 12:11:44 -0400

Kristopher S. Handley wrote:

> I checked the archives and still I'm not sure which Brax solo Nils and Mike
> were talking about.  FOR ALTO?  OR something new?

Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS
TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album. The Brax is
essential, just an amazing recording. All the more for the confidence
and conception shown by a 23-year old Braxton. The Abrams is a bit of a
mixed bag, imo, but there are a few stand-out tracks including one of
the very best things he ever recorded, 'The March of the Transients', a
great free-bop number.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Jon Lloyd - Head

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kristy Shugg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:46:47 GMT


Arthur Gadney wrote:

 > Hey,
 >
 > >records collection = penis size ?
 >

contemplating my small collection, still trying to work out the implications
for the penistically-challenged like me...

- Kristy

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: kalaparusha
Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:10:54 -0500


>>>Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS
TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album...

"humility in the light of the creator" is, i'm guessing, pre-"kalaparusha,"
since he's billed only as "maurice mcintyre." this is a surprisingly good,
interesting disc. the other one delmark has reissued "forces and feelings"
doesn't stand out as much, i don't think. it's a heavy session, like so many,
but somewhat undistinguished. this one has two lp-side suites, that work quite
nicely as suites (with recurring themes and some quite interesting vocals by a
fella named george hines. also included or malachi favors, thurman barker,
ajaramu, leo smith, john stubblefield and claudine myers (pre-"amina"?).
recorded in '69.

i got all three delmark reissues and this is the surprise of the bunch. the
muhal, i agree, is uneven and not his best, although i quite like the 10 minute
drum/synth duet with steve mccall, "1 and 4 plus 2 and 7". i actually always
like muhal's synth work. interesting how there's so little of it (but maybe that
keeps me liking it)(smiley punctuation emoticon thingy).



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "gulickx" <[e-mail]>
Subject: can i drop in?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 19:13:16 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0137F.8400E780
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list.
At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET.

Am i doin=B4 allright?

Or am i interrupting your discussion?

Karel.

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0137F.8400E780
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I=B4m a new member of the =
zorn-list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At this very moment i=B4m listening to =
'MASADA live=20
in Middelheim'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two weeks ago i bought a cd from =
CHARLES=20
TRENET.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am i doin=B4 allright?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or am i interrupting your =
discussion?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Karel.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C0137F.8400E780--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question
Date: 31 Aug 2000 10:29:22 -0700

>
> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:11:44 -0400
> From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question (was: genres)
>
> Kristopher S. Handley wrote:
>
> > I checked the archives and still I'm not sure which Brax solo Nils and Mike
> > were talking about.  FOR ALTO?  OR something new?
>
> Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS
> TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album. The Brax is
> essential, just an amazing recording. All the more for the confidence
> and conception shown by a 23-year old Braxton. The Abrams is a bit of a
> mixed bag, imo, but there are a few stand-out tracks including one of
> the very best things he ever recorded, 'The March of the Transients', a
> great free-bop number.
>
> Brian Olewnick

I just picked up For Alto two days ago, and haven't had a chance to give it a proper listen yet. I've tried three times, and always ended up having to leave before I got more than 1/2 way into it. But what I heard, I liked.  Much more raw than latter solo stuff, I think.

I didn't know that the Abrams disc was also issued -- I'll have to look at the store to see if it is there.  It sounds like a typical Abrams disc -- i find almost everything he has recorded to be a bit spotty, with some dead wood mixed into lots of amazing material.  Always worth buying, however.

What's the Kalaparusha disc? Don't know much about him, but generally liked the bits I've heard.

Dan


_______________________________________________________________________

Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now!
http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html

_______________________________________________________________________


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton solo in question
Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:47:34 -0400

Dan Given wrote:

> I didn't know that the Abrams disc was also issued -- I'll have to look at the store to see if it is there.  It sounds like a typical Abrams disc -- i find almost everything he has recorded to be a bit spotty, with some dead wood mixed into lots of amazing material.  Always worth buying, however.

I think you're generally correct, though "Sightsong" the 1975 duo with
Malachi Favors is superb virtually throughout, as is most of "Afrisong"
from around the same time.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: can i drop in?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 13:57:06 EDT

In a message dated 8/31/00 1:24:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[e-mail] writes:

<< I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list.
 At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
 Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET.
=20
 Am i doin=B4 allright?
=20
 Or am i interrupting your discussion?
=20
 Karel.
  >>


You're doing just fine.  Welcome!!!

Best,
Tom

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 14:09:04 -0400

Manhattan Research Inc. is one of the finest releases I've heard this year.  It's a
fascinating historical document that shows how Scott's work ushered electronic
music into commercials and popular culture.

Best,
Jason
--
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: oxy morons
Date: 31 Aug 2000 18:42:48 GMT

>Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:04:23 -0000
>From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: oxy morons

>Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list???
>Anyway, long live the Sabs!

I guess this is a joke. Maybe not. Anyway, I could go on and on about this,
but briefly: yes, there's a lot of silly, ridiculous stuff surounding
some/much metal (part of what makes it great in some cases), and there is
some downright stupid and deplorable stuff surrounding  some bands. Well,
this is the Zornlist, so to use a few examples, Mick Harris (Napalm Death),
Dave Lombardo (Slayer), G.C. Green and Justin Broadrick (Godflesh) are some
of the people on Zorn's albums -- not exactly a news flash, I know -- plus
he's played with Old, Blind Idiot God... Also, SO much of Naked City is
based on what bands like Napalm Death did, or with Leng Tche, the Melvins.

But it's not just Zorn-connected bands. There are tons of groups who to me,
beyond the initial loudness of the music, are just really much more
interesting than a lot of comparable groups in the "downtown" scene, in prog
rock, post-rock, etc. And while occasionally silly in their poses, a lot of
these metal groups are a lot less pretentious about what they do.

Culturally, I don't relate to the "metal underground" on a personal level. I
certainly don't dress like a stereotypical metal fan, and it's by no means
all I listen to. But bands like Soilent Green or Brutal Truth or whoever
have a lot going for them, and I'm glad I got over the prejudices I once had
about this kind of music.

And I know a lot of people here gasp when the name Mr. Bungle pops up, and
they're not really a metal band, anymore at least, but it's funny how the
same people (say, indie/rock type critics) fawn over bands like the Flaming
Lips or Olivia Tremor Control (nothing against them of course) yet wouldn't
even give an album like "California" the time of day, just because of who
they are.

Trey from Mr. Bungle had a really good line about this when I was
interviewing him last year: "Closed-mindedness works both ways." Maybe not
exactly profound, but it bugs me when people who are supposedly
"enlightened" about music so easily cast off bands or whole genres that they
know nothing about.

Anyway, end of rant. And I'm reeaaallllly sorry for coming across like a
jerk, or acting like I'm singling someone out.

Back into hybernation,,

WY
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:05:40 EDT

Don Byron's big band covers 6 Scott tunes on 'Bug Music: Music of the Raymond
Scott Quintette, John Kirby & his Orchestra, and the Duke Ellington Orchetra'
(Nonesuch, 1996).  Fun stuff.  Byron states in the liners: "In their heydays
the Scott and Kirby bands were commercially successful.  Scott's music was
performed in movies featuring the likes of Sonja Henie and Shirley Temple.
His music is the backbone of Carl Stalling's cartoons scores, instantly
recognizable to at least three generations of cartoon lovers.  His was the
house band of the popular show, Your Hit Parade.  Scott's music was entirely
through-composed.  This threw a lot of jazz critics off the track, though one
forgets that many Ellington solos were also quite well scripted, and that the
bebop era bands often performed recorded solos note-for-note at concerts."

jeff caltabiano
n.p. coltrane: complete '61 village vanguard, disc 2


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: can i drop in?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:15:47 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C01390.A19886C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

you're doing great.=20
now somebody please  tell us about death metal covers=20
of route nationale 7 that have a klezmer clarinet sample.

Stephane
    -----Original Message-----
    From: gulickx <[e-mail]>
    To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
    Date: jeudi, 31. ao=FBt 2000 18:25
    Subject: can i drop in?
   =20
   =20
    I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list.
    At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
    Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET.
   =20
    Am i doin=B4 allright?
   =20
    Or am i interrupting your discussion?
   =20
    Karel.

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C01390.A19886C0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>you're doing=20
great. </FONT></DIV>now somebody please  tell us about death =
metal=20
covers </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>of route nationale 7 =
that have a=20
klezmer clarinet sample.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Stephane</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>gulickx <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>jeudi, 31. août 2000 18:25<BR><B>Subject: </B>can i drop=20
    in?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I´m a new member of the=20
    zorn-list.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At this very moment i´m =
listening to=20
    'MASADA live in Middelheim'.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two weeks ago i bought a cd from =
CHARLES=20
    TRENET.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am i doin´ =
allright?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or am i interrupting your=20
    discussion?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Karel.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C01390.A19886C0--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nils Jacobson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton solo disc (was: genres)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:40:28 +0100

Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark, along with Muhal's THINGS
> TO COME FROM THOSE NOW GONE and a Kalaparusha album. The Brax is
> essential, just an amazing recording. All the more for the confidence
> and conception shown by a 23-year old Braxton.

along these lines, you may wish to check out the *brand new* steve
lacy disc 'snips' on jazz magnet records.  it's a 1976 recording
documenting his first ever solo saxophone performance in the u.s.
recorded in a loft in nyc, very intimate and interesting.  he has
this one piece called "the new york duck" which is quite self-
descriptive... it in fact sheds great light on zorn's use of
saxophone mouthpieces and duck calls on 'the classic guide to
strategy.'  a precursor to this whole phenomenon, yes.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton solo disc (was: genres)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:44:48 -0400

Nils Jacobson wrote:

> along these lines, you may wish to check out the *brand new* steve
> lacy disc 'snips' on jazz magnet records.  it's a 1976 recording
> documenting his first ever solo saxophone performance in the u.s.
> recorded in a loft in nyc

Would that've been Environ, by any chance? (Wondering if I was there. I
saw him several times solo around that time).

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nils Jacobson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lacy solo disc (was: genres)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:48:51 +0100

On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Nils Jacobson wrote:
>
> > along these lines, you may wish to check out the *brand new* steve
> > lacy disc 'snips' on jazz magnet records.  it's a 1976 recording
> > documenting his first ever solo saxophone performance in the u.s.
> > recorded in a loft in nyc
>
> Would that've been Environ, by any chance? (Wondering if I was there. I
> saw him several times solo around that time).

yes indeed it was environ.  the guy who taped it and produced it is
jim eigo.  a 2-disc set it is.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: can i drop in?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:45:16 +0200





>I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list.
>At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
>Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET.

Charles Trenet??
Are You really the fan of French chansons??:))))


Jerzy

NP: Ivan Csudai/Martin Burlas - 9 Easy Pieces and other songs





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: can i drop in?/sclavis a.o.
Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:55:16 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C01396.25C58E20
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: dekater <[e-mail]>
Aan: gulickx <[e-mail]>
Datum: donderdag 31 augustus 2000 20:47
Onderwerp: Re: can i drop in?



    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: gulickx <[e-mail]>
    Aan: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
    Datum: donderdag 31 augustus 2000 19:24
    Onderwerp: can i drop in?
   =20
   =20
    I=B4m a new member of the zorn-list.
    At this very moment i=B4m listening to 'MASADA live in Middelheim'.
    Two weeks ago i bought a cd from CHARLES TRENET.
   =20
    Am i doin=B4 allright?
   =20
    Or am i interrupting your discussion?
   =20
    Karel.
   =20
   =20
    Nothing wrong with the French.
    This reminds me of a cd which I lost a few years ago. Someone broke =
in and stole the lot. I could find (buy) back the most of them, except a =
cd called 'Flamenco-Jazz' with texts of Lorca and a.o. Louis Sclavis and =
Violeta Ferrer. Don't rember under whose name this appeared, nor the =
label.
    Could someone out there help me?
    =20
    Zorn-connection: Sclavis and Ferrer appear on the Nato-label, Zorn =
also does.
    =20
    Jan Luyben

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C01396.25C58E20
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Oorspronkelijk =
bericht-----</B><BR><B>Van:=20
</B>dekater <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR>=
<B>Aan:=20
</B>gulickx <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>Datum: =

</B>donderdag 31 augustus 2000 20:47<BR><B>Onderwerp: </B>Re: can i drop =

in?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Oorspronkelijk=20
    bericht-----</B><BR><B>Van: </B>gulickx <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>Aan: =
</B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR><B>Datum:=20
    </B>donderdag 31 augustus 2000 19:24<BR><B>Onderwerp: </B>can i drop =

    in?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I´m a new member of the=20
    zorn-list.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At this very moment i´m =
listening to=20
    'MASADA live in Middelheim'.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two weeks ago i bought a cd from =
CHARLES=20
    TRENET.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am i doin´ =
allright?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or am i interrupting your=20
    discussion?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Karel.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Nothing wrong with the =
French.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This reminds me of a cd which I =
lost a few=20
    years ago. Someone broke in and stole the lot. I could find (buy) =
back the=20
    most of them, except a cd called 'Flamenco-Jazz' with texts of Lorca =
and=20
    a.o. Louis Sclavis and Violeta Ferrer. Don't rember under whose name =
this=20
    appeared, nor the label.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Could someone out there help=20
me?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Zorn-connection: Sclavis and =
Ferrer appear=20
    on the Nato-label, Zorn also does.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jan=20
Luyben</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C01396.25C58E20--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:56:35 -0400

I enjoy Scott's quintet and big band  work much more than his electronic.
His electronic music is innovative and fascinating in it's own right, but it
lacks the energy or charm of his acoustic works.  Restless Nights and
Turkish Twilights is constantly in my CD player.  I love the intricacy of
the music (especially solos).  It blows my mind that it was all done in his
head or on the piano and then communicated to his band, never a written
note.  It also angers me that Scott is rarely mentioned when cartoon music
is brought up.  Stalling is seemingly the only major composer of such music,
but Scott did it first.  Though Manhattan Research is a lot more palatable
than Soothing Sounds for Baby I still prefer his six man quintet.

Zach

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: delete if you don't own original spillane cd
Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:25:12 -0500 (CDT)


hello everyone; i've been hesitant to ask, but finially decided to as i've
convinced myself that i'm morally justified.  the only compact disc i've
ever lost/had stolen (i.e., i have no idea what happened to it) has been
zorn's 'spillane' on electra nonesuch.  this is also the first zorn disc i
ever heard, and remains one of my top five zorn (if not #1).  however, i
have never been able to replace it because (i) i kept hoping it would turn
up and (ii) now the electra/nonesuch version is oop.  in my mind the
second track is essential to the album, so i refuse to buy spillane again
if i'm not going to get the album i originally fell in love with.  so, all
this to provide some sort of justification to my question:

is there anyone out there who could burn me a cdr copy of the original
spillane disc?  i have a number of privately traded live zorn discs to
offer in return.

once again, i swear on my not-yet-dead-mother's future grave that i bought
the original (brand new even) and then lost it, so i hope no one will
flame me for making this request.  it's just such a good album (and the
second track is great).

thanks and sorry for the wasted space,
whit

np - meat puppets - 'up on the sun'; soon - soft boys, 'underwater
moonlight'; two of the greatest rock albums ever recorded...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: added some more cd's Ribot Frith Zorn
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:03:27 PDT

eBay seller name is schules

In case anyone is wondering why I would want to get rid of such great music-
it is because I need more equipment to make music with....

Thanks,
John
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leon Spaans <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada Live
Date: 01 Sep 2000 00:06:18 +0200 (CEST)

Hi All,

I have a fairly simple question and I hope someone has an answer to it.
I've been looking for a Masada-tourdates-scheme on the internet for ages,
but I haven't been able to find one though. And now I was hoping that
someone could help me out, because seeing Masada live would make me a
very, very, very happy person .... I hope ;-)

Thanks, bye and regards,

Leon

ps. Does any of you know whether Masada ever played in The Netherlands ?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: cd writing revisited
Date: 01 Sep 2000 11:31:45 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C01408.35BF5780
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The only reason I ask this question here is that I vaguely remember it =
asked about a year ago, and I'm sure someone here will know whether what =
I ask is possible. Anyway, my question... when writing cds (using a =
computer cd writer, that's what I'm using anyway) can you eliminate the =
2 second breaks between the tracks?

Thanks,
Julian.



------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C01408.35BF5780
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only reason I ask this question =
here is that I=20
vaguely remember it asked about a year ago, and I'm sure someone here =
will know=20
whether what I ask is possible. Anyway, my question... when writing cds =
(using a=20
computer cd writer, that's what I'm using anyway) can you eliminate the =
2 second=20
breaks between the tracks?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Julian.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C01408.35BF5780--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andreas Mohr <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: oxy morons
Date: 01 Sep 2000 03:22:08 +0200

Hallo

this is my first post here. my record-collection is rather small and i
don┤t know Eugene Chadbourne, but i think i┤m doin allright. Please keep
on talking about music :)

> But it's not just Zorn-connected bands. There are tons of groups who to me,
> beyond the initial loudness of the music, are just really much more
> interesting than a lot of comparable groups in the "downtown" scene, in prog

yep. and my next run-to-store will be for Carnival in Coal (and Masada
live).
and hello Whit : if you like rock, don┤t forget <Mad Season - Above>
and  <Down - Nola> !

> And I know a lot of people here gasp when the name Mr. Bungle pops up, and
Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr. Bungle Mr.
Bungle

> Trey from Mr. Bungle had a really good line about this when I was
> interviewing him last year: "Closed-mindedness works both ways." Maybe not
> exactly profound, but it bugs me when people who are supposedly
> "enlightened" about music so easily cast off bands or whole genres that they
> know nothing about.

well i┤m sure a lot of people on this list _are_ enlightened about music
! but i┤m also sure it really works both ways  -  Closed- and
Open-mindedness!
i had the chance to do an interview with Mike Patton during this summers
Fantomas-tour, and i had read that he founded his label ipecac bcause he
thought fantomas would be too strange to release it on a common label.
so i asked if he couldn┤t have released it on Tzadik..  here┤s what he
had to say:

<<   Oh yeah, i could have. I just don┤t think it was appropriate on
Tzadik. At the end of the day - Fantomas - everybody can talk about how
weird it is, but it┤s a fuckin rock record. That┤s what I hear !! And I
want to push it in that direction. I wanna push it to those kind of
people. Not to avantgarde-experimental-jazz-weirdos. I think that those
people will like the stuff and it┤s no problem. I wanna put this in
front of people who are unfamiliar with it. Aaeeh, I don┤t know, you
know
like cannibal corpse fans ... I think that there┤s enough in this music
that any metalhead redneck could appreciate.  >>

andi  just started zorning :)

--
Wir tanzen alle Boogie - nur nicht mit dem selben Rhythmus
 - Sue Anne -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cd writing revisited
Date: 31 Aug 2000 21:55:59 -0400

Hello,

>Anyway, my question... when writing cds (using a computer cd writer, that's
>what I'm using anyway) can you eliminate the 2 second breaks between the
>tracks?

You have to select the 'cd at once' option when writing the cd. It should not
be so hard to find in the software you use to write.

Hope it helps,

Mathieu


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cd writing revisited
Date: 01 Sep 2000 13:03:56 +1000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C01415.15EB8840
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah sorry, it was really easy to figure out after all, it's just that I =
was initially trying to find the option in my 'cd copy' software rather =
than that easy cd creator. Thanks for the help!

------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C01415.15EB8840
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yeah sorry, it was =
really easy to=20
figure out after all, it's just that I was initially trying to find the =
option=20
in my 'cd copy' software rather than that easy cd creator. Thanks for =
the=20
help!</FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C01415.15EB8840--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dmitry elentuck" <[e-mail]>
Subject: CD storage shelves/ The Remote Viewer on Leo Records
Date: 31 Aug 2000 22:47:50 -0400


Re: recent discussion about keeping one's record/CD collection organized:

I'm looking for recommendations and retail sources  for a relatively
sizeable (1500-2000) CD storage space, preferrably floor-standing shelves.
The piles on my floor and around my stereo are getting more and more
hazardous-looking.

For more music-related context:

The Remote Viewers. (Not to be confused with Remote Viewer, electronic duo
on 555 Records, former members of Hood). I have their (debut?) CD "Low
Shapes in the Dark" on Leo Records, and I find it quite wonderful. It's a
trio of Adrian Northover + Louise and David Petts. Each member plays sax
(sporano and alto, alto, and tenor, respectively), electronics (synth,
noises), plus Louise provides occasional vocals. The CD I have features
mostly originals  but also covers of Sun Ra's "Astro Black", Armando
Sciascia "Sogno Nostalgico -- Callan TV theme" (? any takes on this one?)
and Ervin Drake's "It Was a Very Good Year". I heard some tracks off their
second Leo CD (I think it's called "Obliques before Pale Skin"), and liked
those even more (they actually cover Madonna's "Secret" on this one). The
latest issue of the Wire has an ad for their most recent CD "Persuasive with
Aliens".

My question to the zornithologists is : I read somewhere that members of the
Remote Viewer used to be in the band B-Shops for the Poor. Is this entity
worth investigating? What sort of music did/do they play? etc.

Thanks in advance.

Dmitry


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brandon Magee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Comments on Raymond Scott?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 23:35:18 -0400 (EDT)

&c. sleepily stated:

| Restless Nights and
| Turkish Twilights is constantly in my CD player.  I love the intricacy of
| the music (especially solos).  It blows my mind that it was all done in his
| head or on the piano and then communicated to his band, never a written
| note.  It also angers me that Scott is rarely mentioned when cartoon music
| is brought up.  Stalling is seemingly the only major composer of such music,
| but Scott did it first.

I must agree with this statement. Restless Nights is just a brilliant
album (which is still in print and available at all major online
record stores), and when I want that type of cartoony vibe, I would
pick it over the Carl Stallings Project Vol. 1 every day of the week
(I own both).

However, Carl Stallings wrote for cartoons. That was his
profession. Raymond Scott wrote brilliant music that happened to fit
perfectly well into cartoons. There is a difference, however, Scott
should be much more recognized (esp. since much of Stallings work was
cribbed from the book of Scott).

Talking about the Carl Stallings Project, what is the concensus on
Vol.2? Is it better than Vol 1. The Same? Or just different?

-Brandon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brandon Magee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: delete if you don't own original spillane cd
Date: 31 Aug 2000 23:41:12 -0400 (EDT)

Whit Schonbein sleepily stated:

| hello everyone; i've been hesitant to ask, but finially decided to as i've
| convinced myself that i'm morally justified.  the only compact disc i've
| ever lost/had stolen (i.e., i have no idea what happened to it) has been
| zorn's 'spillane' on electra nonesuch.  this is also the first zorn disc i
| ever heard, and remains one of my top five zorn (if not #1).  however, i
| have never been able to replace it because (i) i kept hoping it would turn
| up and (ii) now the electra/nonesuch version is oop.  in my mind the
| second track is essential to the album, so i refuse to buy spillane again
| if i'm not going to get the album i originally fell in love with.

I agree. The Original Spillane on Elektra was a brilliant introduction
to Zorn. The Albert Collins piece is brilliant, and is absolutely
essential to any Zorn collection. And, the fact that you can tast
Zorn's compisitional talent in three different genres makes Spillane
the album I play to introduce people to Zorn.

While I am very happy that Spillane was re-released with Blues Noel
and Godard, I certainly hope that Two-Lane Highway finds itself on
some collection Zorn will release sometime. (Forbidden Fruit should
not be forgotten, but it is readily available on a Kronos Quartet
album).

-Brandon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brandon Magee <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CD storage shelves
Date: 31 Aug 2000 23:44:31 -0400 (EDT)

dmitry elentuck sleepily stated:
| Re: recent discussion about keeping one's record/CD collection organized:
|
| I'm looking for recommendations and retail sources  for a relatively
| sizeable (1500-2000) CD storage space, preferrably floor-standing shelves.
| The piles on my floor and around my stereo are getting more and more
| hazardous-looking.

I personally have 3 large wooden shelves (about 6' high), which fit
roughly 400 CDs each. I have found these types of shelves to be
readily available in my neck of the woods, and I find that they work
well. Certainly far better than keeping them in stacks on the floor.

Of course, I will soon need to buy another one. The life of a music
fan!

-Brandon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: For Alto
Date: 01 Sep 2000 06:35:34 +0200

Hio Philozorners,

> Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark

I have to get it! Zorn said in the interview with William Duckworth,
that this album "blown him away", "He [Braxton] had the energy I was
looking for". It was one of Zorn's first jazz records, which turned
him to sax and free-jazz...

I'm under big influence of Jazz Composer's Orchestra with Taylor, and
the re-issued "Ascension" by Coltrane. As Zorn said, the first is more
"structured", and therefore more interesting in long listening. The
"blowing" quality of "Ascension" is incredible though.

    __________________________________________________________________
    Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
    NP: Spaceways "Solid Krell Metal"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: For Alto
Date: 31 Aug 2000 00:42:16 +0100


--------------ABD792125FDCBD3F033CC5FB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Artur Nowak wrote:

> Hio Philozorners,
>
> > Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark
>
> I have to get it! Zorn said in the interview with William Duckworth,
> that this album "blown him away", "He [Braxton] had the energy I was
> looking for". It was one of Zorn's first jazz records, which turned
> him to sax and free-jazz...
>

Perhaps a stupid question--actually two--but was For Alto originally
released on Delmark?  And how long has the album been out of print?

Thanks.

--Mike

--------------ABD792125FDCBD3F033CC5FB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<p>Artur Nowak wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hio Philozorners,
<p>> Yep, FOR ALTO, recently re-issued on Delmark
<p>I have to get it! Zorn said in the interview with William Duckworth,
<br>that this album "blown him away", "He [Braxton] had the energy I was
<br>looking for". It was one of Zorn's first jazz records, which turned
<br>him to sax and free-jazz...
<br> </blockquote>
Perhaps a stupid question--actually two--but was <i>For Alto</i> originally
released on Delmark?  And how long has the album been out of print?
<p>Thanks.
<p>--Mike</html>

--------------ABD792125FDCBD3F033CC5FB--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: George Russell
Date: 01 Sep 2000 01:06:21 EDT

In the last six months or so I have purchased George Russell's "Jazz in the
Space Age," "Ezz-thetics," and Stratus Seekers.  I have been completely blown
away by all of them.  GR has the composition and arranging skills of a true
master.  "Ezz-thetics," featuring Dolphy, David Baker, Don Ellis and Stephen
Swallow (on upright), should be in every musician's collection.  The Dolphy
solo on the title cut is one of his best ever.  GR music from these albums
appear to be culmination of everything that was happening in Jazz.  I have
yet to be disappointed by any GR CD from this period (late 50's early 60's)
and I was wondering if anyone had anymore recommendations for GR CD's.  I
also was completely blown away by Baker's playing throughout this music so
any recommendations of his music would also be appreciated.  I also was able
to check out the Lydian Chromatic Concept book from a local library but is
missing some sheet.  If anyone knows were to get a new copy of this, I
believe there are multiple editions, I would also appreciate that.


                                            Thanks to All,

                                                Aaron Solomon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: EmilianGatzov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Looking to trade 11 CDs
Date: 01 Sep 2000 01:55:09 -0400 (EDT)

Apologies for the crosspost. I=92m looking to recycle these 11 cds.I  will =
entertain various types of trade offers, just email me if you=92re interest=
ed.
Emilian

=8C Eliott Sharp & Carbon =96 Larynx (on SST)
=8C Praxis =96 Sacrifist  [w/Zorn/Buckethead/Blind Idiot God/Harris/Eye etc=
(on Subharmonic)]
=8C Kiodyssea =96 Migrations (on Art Gallery)=20
=8C Peter Scherer =96 Very Neon Pet  [w/F. Genius/ Parkins/Lindsay/Baptista=
/Vasconcelos/ Deyhim etc(on Metro Blue)]
=8C Robert Musso =96 Absolute Music (on MUworks)=20
=8C Frigg =96 Brecht (on Knitting Factory) produced by Eliott Sharp
=8C Clusone Trio =96 I Am An Indian (on Gramavision/Ryko)
=8C Hafler Trio =96 A Thirsty Fish (on The Grey Area of Mute)
=8C Aziza Mustafa Zadeh =96 Seventh Truth (on Sony)
=8C Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan & Party =96 Shahen-Shah (on RealWorld)
=8C John Surman Quartet =96 Stranger than Fiction (on ECM)

______________________________________________________________

FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com



-