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Zorn List Digest       Saturday, March 30 2002       Volume 03 : Number 869



In this issue:
-
       Re: white trash
       Re: white trash
       Re: white trash
       why is music needed?
       Re: Zony Mash
       Dave Douglas press
       Re: Frisell
       Highly recommended [was RE: music defined (indeterminacy)] - long
       Re: Frisell
       Re: why is music needed?
       Richard Pinhas and Schizotrope
       Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese
       Re: Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 03:31:31 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: white trash

What about the great music that's come out of "white trash" (from Elvis to Eminem
by way of such varied people as Janis Joplin, Dr John, Johnny Cash, the Allman
bros., Jaco Pastorius, Stevie Ray Vaughan, the Ramones or Nirvana) from its close
relations to lower-class black society and music? And the contradiction of that
fact with the blanket assimilation of white trash with bigotery.
Not only does a large segment of "white trash" population identify with blacks,
but they often don't seem to know that they're not black!
D.

>
> >
> Actually, I fit squarely into the "white trash" demographic.  I'm not gonna
> be the most objective guy on this topic.  I come from a low-middle-class
> background, went to high a school that could have been the prototype for
> WAYNE'S WORLD, never went to college, drank an awful lot of beer (until I
> cut out alcohol entirely), listen to country music, worked in factories, and
> all that good stuff.  Do I know my share of "white trash" racists? yes.  Do
> I know racists from other backgrounds? Any white guy in Philly who played
> jazz for money was going to see that (and, even more predominantly, ageism)
> up close.  Do I know my share of "white trash" folks who object strenuously
> to racism? Tons.  Do I laugh at Jeff Foxworthy? Often enough.
>
> I agree with John Water -- that it's the only PC racial epithet left to
> throw around.
>
> sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:02:55 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: white trash

on 2/6/40 12:59 AM, duncan youngerman at [e-mail] wrote:

> What about the great music that's come out of "white trash" (from Elvis to
> Eminem
> by way of such varied people as Janis Joplin, Dr John, Johnny Cash, the Allman
> bros., Jaco Pastorius, Stevie Ray Vaughan, the Ramones or Nirvana) from its
> close
> relations to lower-class black society and music? And the contradiction of
> that
> fact with the blanket assimilation of white trash with bigotery.
> Not only does a large segment of "white trash" population identify with
> blacks,
> but they often don't seem to know that they're not black!
> D.
>
>>
People without a lot of money and influence in America often have two things
in common:

1. They identify with each other, to varying degrees.  Example -- the
Italian kids in South Philly when I was growing up listened exclusively to
black music (except Sinatra and Martin).  Why? Because going to schooldances
was the only economically feasible social gathering option, especially one
with potentially sexual consequences.  Boston, Led Zep, or whatever other
corpo rock didn't figure in, because it wasn't dancable, and therefore
offered no opportunities to mingle with the opposite sex.  This rendered
that stuff useless to those guys.  The R&B of the time was extremely black
(espec P-Funk), but, since the Italian guys had social dancing (and the
music that comes with it) as such a huge part of their lifestyle, it gave
them avenues of black culture with which they could relate (another reason
we need music, by the way).

2. Poor people in the USA are lumped together.  When you hear about "the
underpriveledged" and how education needs to be improved for them, it's
usually in the context of some kinds of sweeping generalization.  But I've
noticed that the sons and daughters of coal miners in Harlan County have
different challenges facing them than kids in Compton.  The tools they'll
need to make better lives for themselves differ.  This could needlessly tip
off a big discussion about the death of regionalism in America, but the
point is the same.  Balck, white, brown -- it doesn't matter what color you
are.  Power in America responds to green.  As Woody Guthrie reminded us,
"you won;t find it so hot/if you ain't got the do-re-mi".  If you ain't got
it, your problems as individuals will not be taken care of.  You're just
part of a big group with no power.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:35 +0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: white trash

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>


    Patrice (wondering if we are living in the same country).
- -------------------

Well, I'm guessing Patrice that you are a French expat living in the states.
  I, on the other hand, am an American expat living in Korea.  That must
literally mean we aren't living in the same country.  But maybe you
understand the term better than I.  Toqueville didn't do too bad either for
a French analyst of the states.



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:33:19 -0800
From: "gorilla thing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: why is music needed?

>------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:51:25 +0000 From:
>"Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]> Subject: Re: why do we need music In
>answer to the question, go without anything from your music collection for
>fifteen months and see how you react. When I first went to Asia, that's
>what I had to do, and I can't describe the joy I felt when I got back to my
>collection and started listening to it again. I vowed it would never happen
>again as long as I live. If you can't do such a thing, try using your
>imagination<


That is how the question arose from a week long camping trip w/ out any
electrics and even by the first night we were singing songs we grow up w/
and by the end up the trips lyrics were buzzing in our heads like mad.
I mean even monks "Uhm".

Chad
I don't know really if the brain just likes to be lullaby or what, but there
seems to be something deep down beyond our understanding that we, for the
most part get hooked on music in such a way that it efforts us so much. I've
never really found a answer that I've been happy w/.



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:47:36 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zony Mash

I second that - the Zony Mash studio CDs are great from
a technical point of view.  Zony Mash is essentially a
bar band though, and definitely at their best when they
have a little room to stretch out.  For those who
haven't heard any of the live boots that have been
floating around, the new Zony Mash "Live In Seattle" CD
will rectify the situation.  It was recorded at a series
of shows last summer, and I must say that it sounds
terrific!  It's very representative of the current show
they're putting on.  Release date is May 28th, but I
might have a few copies to sell soon at the website,
www.waynehorvitz.com.

By the way, I think of Zony Mash as being much less a
high-concept band than Pigpen was, but no less enjoyable
as a concert experience.  I was glad to get a few
chances to see Pigpen while they were still around, but
now I think that Zony Mash has developed into every bit
as good a band.

Dave
> One thing that is worth mentioning concerning Zony Mash is their ability to
> really stretch any of their compositions. This is definitely not apparent in
> their records and may be the reason of your critic. Pigpen was Horvitz' band
> to play in rock clubs (since this is what Seattle is famous for). I guess
> that moving to Seattle in the early 90's might have been hard from a playing
> point of view. With Pigpen he started to get involved with the local scene
> and this jumpstarted many of his collaborations. I also feel that Pigpen
> records are more representative of the band performances than Zony Mash.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0800
From: Jeff Caltabiano <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dave Douglas press

His New Quintet is playing L.A. next week...

http://www.newtimesla.com/issues/2002-03-28/calendar.html/1/index.html

http://www.laweekly.com/picks/#jazz


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:44:22 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell

>>>The last one that floored me was THIS LAND.  Still my favorite,
along with
the live trio disc of him and Joey & Kermit.<<<

Seeing him at Santa Monica's At My Place with Joey, Kermit, and
Hank Roberts remains tied for first with a handful of concerts
that completely electrified me from first note to last. And that
solo on one of Previte's earlier recordings, the piece that was
composed with Frisell in mind. Stunning. ('The Voice' on Claude's
Late Morning.)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:50:20 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Highly recommended [was RE: music defined (indeterminacy)] - long

For the record, since it's me under discussion, I'll just point out that I
did, in fact, include Cannibal Ox in my preposterously long list of the best
releases of 2001. (It might have been easy to miss in that context!) I did
and do recommend it, but I can certainly understand your not caring for it.
I've just seen an instrumental version of the disc in stores in recent
weeks, so if the rappers were not to your liking but you enjoyed the beats,
here's your chance. And if you want to use it for karaoke, that's probably
cool, too. On the other hand, I distinctly remember cLOUDEAD being highly
recommended by people whose opinions I hold in high regard, so I rushed
right out and bought it. And I have to report that I had no use for it
whatsoever. So yes, clearly, personal taste is certainly going to play a
major role in any aesthetic evaluation of what is and is not successful art.

Someone recently lamented the dearth of personal "recent listening" lists
'round these parts, so I'll just jump and and mention a few recent things
I've been spinning madly of late:

Tony Oxley B.I.M.P. quartet: 'Floating Phantoms' (A/L/L) - The initial
release from a new offshoot of FMP features much the same group that
recorded 'The Tony Oxley Quartet' for Incus some years back, but here
violinist Phil Wachsmann replaces Derek Bailey. The textures are more spare
as a result, but there's certainly no lack of activity. Oxley's style is
fairly predictable by now (and that's NOT a condemnation - I'd say the same
of Bailey, and I still buy disc after disc by both - there's a certain
comfort in familiarity), so the majority of the novelty lies with the other
three participants. Pat Thomas spend more time on piano during this outing
than the previous disc, though he's a spare, undemonstrative player. Matt
Wand sends sampled noises and voices (one sounding rather like Bailey's, in
fact) whooshing around the soundstage, while Wachsmann goes back and forth
from straight violin to electrified violin to more abstracted electronics.
To paraphrase a famous maxim, for those who enjoy this kind of music, this
is the kind of music that they enjoy. And I have been enjoying it quite a
bit.

L. Stinkbug: 'The Allure of Roadside Curios' (Starlight Furniture Co.) -
Guitarist G.E. Stinson, formerly of Windham Hill new agers Shadowfax, has
taken an increasingly abstract and aggressive approach to improvised music
for the last several years. Here, he's heard in four freeform sprawls with
fellow Angeleno guitar hero Nels Cline; Stinson's astringent textural washes
make a fine foil for Cline's more linear squiggles. Electric bassist Steuart
Liebig and drummer Scott Amendola support the chaotic proceedings with
gusto.

J.S. Bach: Sonatas for Violin and Harpsichord (Sony Classical) - Italian
violinist Giuliano Carmignola has made his reputation over the last two
years with unbelievably fiery recordings of concertos by Vivaldi, including
the most compelling recording of the Four Seasons I've ever heard (and one
that, improbably, I continue to listen to repeatedly). Ironically, his take
on the Bach sonatas is quite the opposite of his improvisatory glee in
Vivaldi: here, accompanied by harpsichordist Andrea Marcon (who led the
orchestra in the Vivaldi discs), he's more reverant. He plays with skill,
poise, and incredible beauty. It's been a good year for recordings of these
pieces, but Carmignola's stand among the finest.

Hugh Le Caine: Compositions Demonstrations 1946-1974 (EMF) - A fairly
mind-blowing collection of short tracks by the Canadian scientist, musician
and instrument builder. Includes his famous "Dripsody" (90 seconds of
dizzying melody created by varying the speed of a recording of drops of
water, offered in both mono and stereo versions), plus similar experiments
and achingly sincere performances of such chestnuts as the Rhapsody in Blue
and a string quartet movement by Gluck performed on the "Sackbut
Synthesizer." It's like Edison channeling the Residents, or something like
that.

Arch Enemy: 'Wages of Sin' (Century Media) - Archetypal Swedish melodic
death metal, picking up where 'Heartwork'-era Carcass left off and sounding
somewhat similar to At the Gates and In Flames (though far harder than the
latter - ick), led by guitarists Michael Ammott (Carnage, Carcass, Spiritual
Beggars) and brother Chris. This is easily their best disc to date: they
still bear maximal firepower, but there's also a real subtlety and
sensitivity in some of their stuff that reminds me a bit of "musicians'
bands" like Opeth. Oh, and their new singer, well, she looks a bit like
Jenna Jameson and sounds a lot like Jeff Walker (Carcass). What a trip.

Various Artists: 'Global Accordion' (Wergo) - A celebration of the
squeezebox in all its iterations, in 26 nicely remastered 78 rpm recordings
from 1927-48, representing musical traditions from Puerto Rico, Ireland,
France, Turkey, South Africa, Poland, Madagascar, Texas, Louisiana and much,
much more.

Honorable mentions:
Hans Werner Henze: Requiem (Sony Classical, OOP)
Johanssen/Dorner/Neumann: 'Barcelona Series' (hatOLOGY)
Ellery Eskelin: '12 (+1) Imaginary Views' (hatOLOGY)
Guillermo E. Brown: 'Soul at the Hands of the Machine' (Thirsty Ear)
Burnt by the Sun: 'Soundtrack to the Personal Revolution' (Relapse)
King Crimson: 'Live in Nashville, TN 2001' (King Crimson Collectors Club)
Cannibal Corpse: 'Gore Obsessed' (Metal Blade)
The Crown: 'Crowned in Terror' (Metal Blade)
Mastodon: 'Lifesblood' (Relapse)
Entombed: 'Morning Star' (Koch)
Geirr Tveitt: A Hundred Hardanger Tunes Suites 2 & 5 (Naxos)


Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Debussy, Pelleas et Melisande - Von Otter, Holzmair, French Natl
Orch/Haitink (Naive)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:06:40 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell

on 3/29/02 11:44 AM, s~Z at [e-mail] wrote:

>>>> The last one that floored me was THIS LAND.  Still my favorite,
> along with
> the live trio disc of him and Joey & Kermit.<<<
>
> Seeing him at Santa Monica's At My Place with Joey, Kermit, and
> Hank Roberts remains tied for first with a handful of concerts
> that completely electrified me from first note to last. And that
> solo on one of Previte's earlier recordings, the piece that was
> composed with Frisell in mind. Stunning. ('The Voice' on Claude's
> Late Morning.)
>
>
> -
>
anyone remember Frisell's playing on Eberhard Weber's LATER THAT EVENING?
That's where and when I got hooked.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:07:45 -0800
From: " A.VanValin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: why is music needed?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "gorilla thing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: why is music needed?

> I was curious since your our on the subject of 'what music is'
> I thought I'd also add why do you think we 'need' it.

Hmmm. I haven't seen any answers that include the social aspect of music. So
I'd like to throw this into the mix:

For one thing, I see people use music to help define themselves and their
places in the world. Mostly in the identity-acquisition years in highschool
I guess, but I still see it all the time.  People often wear their
affiliations with pride, as a concert shirt or a ridiculously loud car
stereo or whatever. And I have to admit, sometimes (in some senses) "musical
taste" is a quick and accurate litmus test.

At the same time, it just-plain-feels-good to listen to music with other
people. Isn't part of the charm of live music that other people are present?
As much as I like my CDs and as much as I like my girlfriend, once in a
while it would be nice if I could enjoy both at the same time (I'm doomed in
that sense I suppose).

And third: for people to live in society they need to be able to pick up on
all sortsa details about consensus and context and all that, and for those
who are kinda slow music gives a set of cues. It tells you how to feel when
an army marches by, or when a CG dinosaur eats a mild mannered scientist or
whatever.

van





- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:52:35 +0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Richard Pinhas and Schizotrope

I've found out that the second of the Schizotrope series was released awhile
ago on Cuneiform.  Does anyone have it?  Any comments?

Pinhas also played with Heldon.  Does anyone have any of their stuff?  Any
recommendations and is there stuff still available?  Thanks.

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:54:22 +0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese

Probably been covered a million times here, but perhaps someone could
recommend where to start with Morton Feldman and Edgar Varese.  Is Varese in
print anywhere?  Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:16:49 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese

At 09:54 AM 3/30/02 +0000, Bill Ashline wrote:
>Probably been covered a million times here, but perhaps someone could
>recommend where to start with Morton Feldman and Edgar Varese.  Is Varese in
>print anywhere?  Thanks.

If you like solo piano, Louis Goldstein has a Triadic Memories paired with
Cage's One5, and excellent renditions of both pieces.  This is a two-cd
set, where Triadic Memories takes a disc and a half.  This is a much longer
(and therefore slower) rendition of other versions, which are all on single
discs.  In general, I prefer his long piano works to the short ones, and I
understand that John Tilbury's 4cd set of his piano music is also
excellent.  The new string quartet release on Hat is also superb, although
at four cds and five hours, it may be a little intimidating.

For his orchestral work, I'd recommend Neither, his 'opera' with the
libretto by Samuel Beckett.  It's nearly a last work for both men, a very
lush, almost romantic setting of a verse that Beckett sent him on a post
card, so it's certainly not an opera in the typical sense of the word.  And
I generally don't like opera, but the soprano part (the only voice) is well
blended into the orchestral sound.

The only Feldman I've heard that I haven't liked is the set of pieces for
solo instrument and orchestra that he did in mid-career, things like Piano
and Orchestra, Oboe and Orchestra, etc.

I'll leave the Varese to someone else, although I think Boulez has a
complete works set that has an excellent reputation.
- --

Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #869
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