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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:32:27 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: radical biologically jewish culture
Joseph Zitt a =E9crit :
> Someone once said that England and the US were two nations divided by
> a common language=2E I'm suspecting that this is even more true as
> English gets used elsewhere=2E It appears that, to some in Europe, the
> word "Radical" has rather different connotations than to
> Americans=2E That they insist that an artist stateside accept their use
> of the term, however, is akin to an American getting annoyed at the
> British use of the term "petrol" rather than "gasoline=2E"
(Joseph, you remind me of William Safire, an elegantly erudite Republican
linguist of sorts and political commentator who writes in the N=2EY=2ETimes=
=2E
Very keen on detail but astonishingly off-base on the larger picture=2E)
The real problem of this Radical Jewish niche lies elsewhere, and has nothin=
g to
do with superficial intercontinental semantics=2E
It has everything to do with:
1) the pretention of someone labeling/marketing one's own work as "Radical"(=
in
any sense of the term)=2E It's always been for critics or historians to even=
tually
decide whether someone's work or "culture" is that or not;
2) the pretention of an ultra-cosmopolitan post-modernist yuppie (there's
absolutely nothing wrong with being that, most of us on this list are precis=
ely
that) draping himself in aboriginal Jewishness, about as removed from his ow=
n
lifestyle as a Californian suburbanite is from an Amazonian Papoo Indian, wi=
thout
wanting to relinquish anything of his pluralistic, la=EFc, consummer society
comfort=2E "The prestige of ancient wisdom and suffering can be yours Now at
discount price!"
3) the tastelessly artificial insistence on nailing ethnic identity (with in=
this
case an ambiguous dual dimension of race and religion) on sounds, at a time =
when
one had hoped the media exposure of ethnic cleaning in the Balkans, East Afr=
ica
or the occupied Palestinian territories would at least bring shame to those =
who
would wish to rekindle tribal fires=2E
There is no clearly drawn line in the sky where nationalism or racism begin =
and
end, but we will notice that it is often simply when someone places origin
(national, religious or racial) above all other considerations=2E This of co=
urse
has for effect to make the excluded (and even many of the included) feel ver=
y
uncomfortable, and, since the mid-20th century, sad and worried that the les=
sons
of history have been in vain, even among the educated=2E
Apparently the rationalisation for this particular case was Jazz, supposedly
"black radical culture", a very poor and narrow reading of this rich and ope=
n
musical form=2E The term "Jazz" was at first synonym for another, more famou=
s
4-letter word starting with F, and never had the slightest pretentions or
self-awareness as any kind of "radical culture" whether based on race or
religion=2E It was good-time music, often a parody or cover of European oper=
a, folk
or marching tunes=2E The fact most of its players were black was fascinating=
to
whites much more than to themselves=2E Never could such fresh, playful, incl=
usive,
unpretentious music have sprung out of such a closed, normative, cerebral
self-definition=2E
4) the appropriation of popular musicians like Burt Bacharach or Serge Gains=
bourg
under this artificial umbrella, confirming its racist essence, since, at lea=
st as
far as Gainsbourg is concerned, there has never been anything in his work,
lifestyle or beliefs that could in any way be connected with Jewish religion=
or
culture=2E Therefore the only justification for his being displayed in this =
niche
is, like a dog, his biological species=2E
Artists has gone overboard in the past and made embarassing mistakes (some
irreparable) when trying to overreach their medium into the realm of social,
political or spiritual matters=2E Wagner with racism and nationalism, Ezra P=
ound
with fascism, Eluard or Picasso with stalinism, Chic Corea with scientology=
=2E=2E=2E
I don't see any real threat coming out of Zorn's cute self-definition game, =
but I
do find it disapointingly reactionary, and tasteless=2E
D=2E
(P=2ES=2E) God!=2E=2E=2E is it actually that important to me in the first pl=
ace that I have
to spend an hour of my precious time argumenting it for the umpeenth time!?
hopefully the last=2E)
>
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Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:38:14 -0800
From: skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: knocking on the gates
on 3/23/02 4:17 PM, Ronald Hiznay at letucepry@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Pet Sounds (Beach Boys)
not innovative? there are some textural and structural things in there that
are completely innovative, not just to the context, but in the most basic
sense of the word. What BW brought to songwriting and arranging is up there
with Burt Bacharach and Stevie Wonder (who are so high up the I get kirnks
in my neck just mentioning the three of them in one sentence).
skip h
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:49:23 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: radical biologically jewish culture
<< 4) the appropriation of popular musicians like Burt Bacharach or Serge
Gainsbourg
under this artificial umbrella, confirming its racist essence, since, at
least as
far as Gainsbourg is concerned, there has never been anything in his work,
lifestyle or beliefs that could in any way be connected with Jewish religion
or
culture. Therefore the only justification for his being displayed in this
niche
is, like a dog, his biological species. >>
While I agree mostly with your email, I do think that in this point, the
incongruity is intentional. Sure Zorn may do some things that stretch the
truth a little, but in this case I think he may actually be exercising a
little tongue in cheek. He's produced these three tributes to musicians he
likes, and because they are Jewish he's given them the funny title of 'Great
Jewish Music'. Well, it may not be literally funny, but it is to him I'm
sure...
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Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:54:33 EST
From: TagYrIt@aol.com
Subject: Re: knocking on the gates
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Well see, I was taking this challenge a lot more deeply than most responses
have seemed to indicate, and I've been wracking my brain to think of
something I find completely innovative. The only possible candidate I can
come up with so far is MAYBE (and I'm not entirely convinced myself) Harry
Partch. As much of a landmark as Pet Sounds is (and I do have the utmost
respect for it) what does it offer that you couldn't get from crossing, say,
the Four Lads with Aaron Copeland?
Dale.
In a message dated 3/23/2002 7:35:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
velaires@earthlink.net writes:
> Pet Sounds (Beach Boys)
>
> not innovative? there are some textural and structural things in there that
> are completely innovative, not just to the context, but in the most basic
> sense of the word. What BW brought to songwriting and arranging is up
> there
> with Burt Bacharach and Stevie Wonder (who are so high up the I get kirnks
> in my neck just mentioning the three of them in one sentence).
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Well see, I was taking this challenge a lot more deeply than most responses have seemed to indicate, and I've been wracking my brain to think of something I find completely innovative. The only <I>possible</I> candidate I can come up with so far is MAYBE (and I'm not entirely convinced myself) Harry Partch. As much of a landmark as Pet Sounds is (and I do have the utmost respect for it) what does it offer that you couldn't get from crossing, say, the Four Lads with Aaron Copeland?<BR>
<BR>
Dale.<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 3/23/2002 7:35:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:<BR>
