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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:09:15 -0800
From: skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fractal music?
on 3/19/02 12:48 PM, s~Z at keithmar@msn.com wrote:
>
> Not the most vicious personal attack I've seen recently.
>
> And so what if it alters the flow so that K8 can say more about
> what she does and why she thinks it, as opposed to Wuorinen's
> oeuvre, is not BS? If K8 stands on ground which gives her the
> right to pronounce Wuorinen BS, surely it is no big deal for her
> to speak about her own aesthetic and its merits. Perhaps Skip's
> 'defense' is motivated by presuppositions about K8 and her art
> that are not really all that flattering.
>
No, they're founded on the fact that, whether or not syhe is a composer, she
has the right to render an opinion without taking on personal attacks. I
have no presupposition about Kate's output, except that it probably doesn't
reach out to my personal aesthetic.
skip h
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:14:42 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: fractal music?
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:09:15 -0800 skip Heller wrote:
>
> No, they're founded on the fact that, whether or not syhe is a composer, she
> has the right to render an opinion without taking on personal attacks. I
> have no presupposition about Kate's output, except that it probably doesn't
> reach out to my personal aesthetic.
Because "Wuorinen's B.S." is the kind of balanced and sophisticated opinion
we long for on this list.
Patrice.
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:25:04 -0800
From: skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fractal music?
on 3/19/02 1:06 PM, s~Z at keithmar@msn.com wrote:
>>>> I have no presupposition about Kate's output, except that it
> probably doesn't
> reach out to my personal aesthetic.<<<
>
> If K8 had spoken in the manner in which you just spoke, she
> wouldn't have attracted the attack.
>
> She pronounced someone's art, bullshit.
>
>
>
There's a quantity of difference between saying "your opinion doesn't seem
well-rendered or even articulate" and ""Oh yeah, let ME judge YOUR work",
and that's the distinction I am making.
skip h
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:20:39 -0500
From: "Dave Smey" <dsmey@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: fractal music?
>
> Bottom line (for me at least): on one side a composer who has
> something to put on the table (regardless of what you think of him),
So what, exactly, does this mean? ("regardless of what you think of him"?)
Wuorinen seems to attract frequent, sharp criticism because he is fairly
prolific and still frequently performed (with some major accolades in the
bad old days), but the works are somewhat boring. (Even the only real W
booster here, Joseph Zitt, admits that he "finds much of his stuff
uninvolving.") In checking him out I was pleasantly surprised that the
music didn't sound like *total* shit (contrary to his bad rep) but still it
was hard to hear what earns him his frequent programming. Such phenomena
will inspire bitter complaints.
> on the
> other a young aspiring composer who feels [e]ntitled to dismiss the older
one
> and have not proven anything yet
young enough to still be in school, actually. How many grad students have
you already heard about?
K8's opinion, while not particularly subtle or substantiated, makes more
sense to me than your mindless appeal to status.
- - Dave Smey
Ph.D. Candidate, CUNY Grad Center
(still unpublished, so I guess I also don't count. why don't you just bar
me from the list until I beef up my CV.)
(I can't remember anybody on this list
> expressing an opinion that might trigger a vague remote attempt at
checking
> her out). Sorry, but I side with the old composer, one of the least
reasons
> being that he has better things to do than lurking on this mailing list.
>
> Sorry if I destroy your sense of conviviality,
>
> Patrice.
>
>
> -
>
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:22:57 EST
From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
Subject: dIRTYlAUNDRY (was Re: fractal music? )
a public airing.
dear patrice,
i would just like to inquire as to why you feel the need to air your dirty (elitist, annoying, mean) laundry on this list. i think i speak for quite a few people as to wondering why you take up so much of our bandwith with your glib one word responses to emails which are presupposed to be witty but are really ill-conceived and just downright silly.
love,
kate.
p.s. - be looking for a performance piece... <tangelos?>
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:27:17 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: fractal music?
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:20:39 -0500 "Dave Smey" wrote:
>
> young enough to still be in school, actually. How many grad students have
> you already heard about?
>
> K8's opinion, while not particularly subtle or substantiated, makes more
> sense to me than your mindless appeal to status.
Appeal to status... I sincerely wish that in thirty years you will have that
dilemma (instead of being one more casualty of a system that can survive
without you).
Patrice.
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:29:01 EST
From: RainDog138@aol.com
Subject: zorn?
uh - so you think we will ever discuss zorn on here?
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:29:10 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems |
| http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:48:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Rizzi <rizzi@browbeat.com>
Subject: Personal Attacks (Re: fractal music?)
I direct all of your attention to the zorn-list guidelines:
"Courtesy: To make this mailing list useful for the
greatest number of people, please treat your fellow
list members with courtesy. Please refrain from actions
that would detract from the value of the list for
other members. "
and
"DO treat every post as though you were sending a copy
to your boss, your minister, and your worst enemy."
Obviously, I wasn't clear last month. Let me try again.
***Personal attacks will not be tolerated on the zorn-list.***
I consider the following a personal attack that warrants a warning.
>Wuorinen's B.S.? Where does is put your own stuff?
Let's play nice people. If you don't like
someone, KEEP IT TO YOUR FUCKING SELF.
I really don't want to forcibly remove someone
from the list. Comprende?
sigh,
mike
zorn-list-maintainer-comma-den-mother-and-fascist
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:52:01 -0500
From: <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Sharrock Inquiry
I agree wholeheartedly with everything Sean said here, and I'd add that you should also hear Pharoah Sanders' 'Tauhid,' on which Sharrock plays a major role (and it's just great music besides). It makes a nice bookend to 'Ask the Ages,' and there's all kinds of great stuff in between.
Anyone know if they've found any Sharrock outtakes from 'Jack Johnson' for the upcoming box set?
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - Frank Bridge, Two Poems for Orchestra - BBC Natl Orch Wales / Hickox (Chandos)
Sean Westergaard <seawes@allmusic.com> wrote:
> >What are some good settings to listen to Sonny Sharrock? Groups orindividual
>albums. Thanks.
start with Guitar for solo action and the amazingly beautiful Ask the ages
with Pharoah Sanders and Elvin Jones. for a more rock-style fix, check out
Seize the Rainbow. stay clear of live in NYC. for a more serious sonic
assault, try Last Exit.
sean
ask the ages is THE place to start
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:52:15 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
