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2002-03-13
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #818
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 13 2002 Volume 03 : Number 818
In this issue:
-
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Re: the Melvins
Re: Melvins and beyond...
Re: More metal
Re: birth & happy apple, minneapolis, thursday
Re: Xu Feng
Stephen Scott bowed piano ensemble in St. Louis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:15:55 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:10 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:11 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:15 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:02 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:16 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:17:12 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:17:12 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0800
From: "john schuller" <superbadassmofo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
Exactly. Please also check out Electric Wizard, High On Fire, SUNN0))),
Khanate, Spirit Caravan and Warhorse for some good current METAL!
By the way...when I speak of "Just another Metal Band" I am talking about
the garbage shit that is out there...Death to false METAL!
John Schuller
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:15:55 -0600
From: "Samuel Haase" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Melvins / Thrones
I guess I just don't want some people here to disregard them as just another
"metal" band. They are way beyond that.
And I want anyone who read that who hasn't checked out metal yet not to
assume metal bands suck or make unsophisticated music. some do, but if you
speak in terms like "just another metal band" then you haven't heard the
good metal and you are missing out imho.
-samuel
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:48:35 +0100
From: Thierry Raguin <thierryraguin@urbanet.ch>
Subject: Re: the Melvins
Theo Klaase wrote:
>Fantomas led me to the Melvins... After "Stoner
>Witch" I have proceeded to buy 7 other albums on my
>way to the entire collection....
>
Same with me, but the greatest band on earth is and will remain
MAGMA!!!!!!
- - TR
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:12:46
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Melvins and beyond...
I'm behind here so apologies if this stuff has been covered already, but I
had to...
A):
>* Richard's primer for Melvins beginners, which I've found pretty >useful,
>was as follows: Houdini, Bullhead, Eggnog, Stoner Witch, Gluey >Porch
>Treatments, Stag, 10 Songs, the Amphetamine Reptile 2CD >collection of
>monthly 7"s, Your Choice Live. (Obviously, some of these >have been harder
>to find than others...) He also added, "Note: Prick >and Honky are noise
>records a la Colossus of Destiny." Richard, if >you're still here,
>continued thanks.
This is a good list but I can't believe Ozma isn't on it! I have the CD that
has Ozma and GPT together and it is still my favorite of theirs. Bullhead
and Houdini (first half of it, mainly) are my two other faves.
B)
Re: Thrones: It is the one-man band of Joe Preston. He plays bass with cheap
but still imaginatively drum machine accompaniment and uses lots of vocal
effects. Very eccentric sludge rock/metal. I recommend downloading his cover
of Rush's "Oracle." It is my favorite thing I have heard by him, and not
currently available (was on a 7" I believe).
You can DL it here:
http://www.killrockstars.com/bands/thrones/audio/Oracle.mp3
C):
Someone mentioned Melvins as an influence on early Naked City, but actually
I only hear them on the "tribute" song on Radio (I think that song is
actually pretty weak) and of course Leng T'ch'e. But ultimately -- and this
is coming from someone who was way into Zorn way before I ever heard Melvins
- -- stuff like Ozma and Gluey Porch Treatments makes Leng T'ch'e look (well,
sound) pretty puny.
D):
Re: Melvins/Fantomas Big Band: I don't know, I was at that show, and while I
basically enjoyed it, I don't have any real desire to get the CD.
Considering the musicians involved, this could have really been something --
maybe they could have done a real "definitive" version of Leng T'ch'e or
something. But instead it was more of a giant medley of first-album Fantomas
and recent Melvins, with a lot of Patton's control-freak antics and over
self-consciousness, something that bothers me with many of his live
performances.
E:)
Someone mentioned a few other sludge-type bands that fall into a similar
category as Melvins: Earth, Sunn0))), Boris, etc. But anyway, I would
recommend checking out these albums as great examples of
sludge/doom/metal/etc.:
Boris - Absolutego -- one track, 65 minutes of slow motion sludge agony
(plus a bonus track)
Eyehategod - Dopesick -- www.lastplanetojakarta.com just had a good article
on these guys, asking whether this or 'Confederacy of Ruined Lives' was the
better album. I vote for this one ...
Old Man Gloom -- Seminar III -- someone mentioned ISIS, but I like these
guys (who do include a member of ISIS) a little better.
I should stop here, this is just the tip of the iceberg.....
Will
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:36
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More metal
>Burnt by the Sun "Soundtrack to the Personal Revolution"
>I caught their drummer live with Melt-Banana (so there's another tie->in
>for the Zorn afficionados) last year, and have been looking forward >to
>this album ever since; I haven't heard it yet, but it's getting >rave
>reviews everywhere, and it is said to be the best thing Relapse >did since
>Dillinger Escape Plan.
Yes, this is great, although minute for minute I like their s/t EP (8
minutes) a tad better than this (25 minutes + a brief guitar inst.). The
lyrics very occasionally lapse into some righteous/sociological
complaint-oriented territory that I don't really like, but in terms of this
not-exactly metal, not-exactly hardcore, not-exactly grindcore type of thing
(Relapse's specialty), yes, it "delivers the goods."
If you like BBTS be on the lookout for the Human Remains 2CD anthology that
is coming out (same drummer and one of the same guitarists). Very
influential post-grindcore (?) band that gets props from Dillinger Escape
Plan, Gorguts, many others.
>Converge "Jane Doe"
>A blow in the face. A knife in the back. Fuckin' intense. Incredibly
> >noisy. For those who have always wondered how Merzbow would translate >to
>metal.
Right, the first two tracks on this are absolutely amazing, although the
rest doesn't quite grab me as much. And I hate to be pedantic or anal, but I
guess technically this gets called "hardcore" rather than metal (well,
noisecore or metalcore are two other terms...).
Oh yeah! Speaking of Merzbow and metal, I forgot to mention the new Sunn0)))
album, which is not quite metal, but which does have Merzbow mixing two of
the tracks. So, if you were wondering how Merzbow would translate to
Melvins-type sludge (minus the drums or song structures) ... this is an
amazing album.
Merzbow also did a remix of Discordance Axis' (another band with Burnt by
the Sun's drummer) album 'The Inalienable Dreamleass', which is grindcore
and a lot choppier and noisier (the remix, that is). You can still download
this at the DA site, I think.
>Meshuggah "Chaosphere"
>My favorite metal album of all time. Incredibly complex, I've seen
>tablatures where time signatures like 28/16, 25/16, 23/16, etc. were
> >running amock in one and the same song.
The weird thing is that I find them musically very interesting but don't
really totally get into them, in large part b/c of the vocals.
>Arcturus "The Sham Mirrors" (4/9)
>If this is going to be anything like their previous masterpiece "La
>masquerade infernale" then we're up for something... Heavy prog-rock
> >influences, operatic vocals, E.A.Poe poems for lyrics, carnival organ
> >parts, drum'n'bass,...
I love that album, although I was physically repulsed by it at first. I
think Garm (or whatever he's calling himself now) is just one of the best
vocalists in rock/metal/whatever, based on his singing and/or screaming in
Arcturus, Ulver, and the first two Borknagar albums (love those Norewgian
band names). I'm listening to an MP3 from the new one right now (go to
www.theendrecords.com) and it does sound pretty great. I'm excited.
I do need to shut up now, but I'm always happy to talk metal, especially the
weird stuff!
WY
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:41:40 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: birth & happy apple, minneapolis, thursday
on 02.03.13 11:35 AM, graham stephenson at ktulu1776@hotmail.com wrote:
> two great modern jazz trios are performing in minneapolis tomorrow (thursday
> 3/14). just wanted to give the heads-up and the recommendation.
>
> i've never seen Birth (birthsound.com), but they are based in cleveland and
> NYC, and consist of joshua smith (ts/as), joe tomino (d), jeremy bleich (b).
Fantastic young trio, really thrilling.
Consider: Joe Maneri chose to tour with them several months back, and they
sounded like an actual working group with only a few rehearsals. I
immediately bought multiple copies of their CD.
Next: Mr. Ernest Dawkins. Just caught him for the first time with Ethnic
Heritage (and I'd never heard Zabar on traps before-- he was like Nature
With Sticks) and Dawkins and Ari Brown together were a beautifully
contrasted pair of horns-- but anyway my question is, what discs do I want
to hear that have the Dawkins fellow present?
aiyiyi,
RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:55:07 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Xu Feng
David Slusser <slusser@pixar.com>
>
>Jonas Leddington wrote:
>
> >As for Zorn knowing drums, I entirely agree. He recently performed Xu
> >Feng at the Miller Theatre in New York as a closing tribute to the actress
> >during a mini-fest of Hong Kong cinema. While I understand it was
> >originally recorded as a piece for two guitars, two electronics players, and
> >two drums, the Miller performance was for six drums. (Of the six, I recall
> >only Susie
> >Ibarra.)
> >
> >I have not heard the original piece, but the drum performance was
> >outstanding, at the same time focused and varied, employing multifarious
> >rhythms and abundant improvisation over a unity just hidden from view, as it
> >were. Zorn directed various combinations of all six players, each of whom
> >assumed a distinct personality. From where I sat I could see a number of
> >the cards, which were surprisingly simple: "rhythmic", "fast", "slow",
> >"quiet" -- and, seeing the cards, it became very clear that the drummers
> >were working within distinct if broad parameters that must have been laid
> >out quite carefully before hand (the source of the unity).
> >
> >Any comments on the recorded Xu Feng would be much appreciated.
>
>I'm pretty sure it was originally, or at least alternatively, conceived
>for six drummers. The configuration on the record is the "concerto"
>version, as in concerto for two drummers, where the guitars and electronics
>provide the ensemble relief. You wouldn't know it from the score, which
>is Cobra based; very democratic, with no favoritism for the drums, but it
>works out that way. Cobra on steroids, adding a few more complicated
>strategies and detours. In the six drummer version, it resembles Cobra
>even more, for the players are on equal footing. What may seem to
>have been laid out quite carefully before hand (I don't think Zorn
>would go for that)
>is actually the result of properly performing the intricate score; playing
>the game piece following its Byzantine rules. One particular operation
>called fencing, more readily apparent in the concerto version, requires
>a trio to simultaneously play in three different genres. Once you start
>in that section, you have to stick to your genre, staying in character
>as it were - perhaps what you observed in the players assuming a distinct
>personality. Done well, it would seem to have been laid out beforehand;
>something that can be said of the entire piece.
I can't say anything definitively about an "original" version, but I
heard the piece live at what I think was the first Vancouver Jazz
festival in 1985 (though it may have been the 2nd year) with a group
that included Eugene Chadbourne, Wayne Horvitz, Bobby Previte, Davey
Williams as well as a couple of BC musicians on keyboard & drums who
I don't remember now. The layering of genres that David Slusser
describes was the thing that struck me most then. At the time it made
sense as a piece for the whole ensemble made up of the New Traditions
in East Asian Bar Bands duets, though I don't know which pieces came
first.
- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 USA
817 377-2983
herb@eskimo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0600
From: <orrick@earthlink.net>
Subject: Stephen Scott bowed piano ensemble in St. Louis
The Stephen Scott bowed piano ensemble can be heard in St. Louis, MO
tonight(March 14) at Christ Church Cathedral. This is the first show of
their current tour which continues to Berlin and Prague. This ensemble of
ten players will manipulate a single piano with guest soloist soprano
Victoria Hansen. There are more details about the show at
http://newmusiccircle.org
Josh
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #818
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