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Zorn List Digest     Wednesday, February 20 2002     Volume 03 : Number 793



In this issue:
-
       Re: Elton Dean & others
       Filles de Silent Brew
       RE: Avant College Groups
       Fw: radio show with unusual Bar Khokba line-up (again)
       Re: Filles de Silent Brew
       Tomahawk?
       Fwd: Tomahawk?
       Fwd: Tomahawk?
       hendrix bluegrass
       Re: Elton Dean & others
       "Call for Papers," sorta
       RE: Elton Dean & others
       RE: Tomahawk?
       RE: Dolphy
       Re: Dolphy
       Re: Dolphy, Prestige Box Live discography
       RE: John Hawkes (was Dolphy)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:14:48 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others

> i'm crawling out of my lurking spot so I can ask the experts on a few
> artists i'm currently digesting: Elton Dean and Nils Petter Molvaer?
> Any impressions, other suggestions, etc?
>
>
I have a blind spot for Nils Petter Molvaer, I am afraid. Perhaps 'Come play
with me' by trumpeter Cuong Vu gives you the reason why. It's on Knitting
Factory.

Elton Dean only really grew after his stint with Soft Machine. His OGUN
records from the seventies might have been re-released, I don't know, but he
regularly makes albums for Brit label SLAM, run by the great baritone sax
player George Haslam. I have no idea if these discs are still available. I
used to write Haslam personally, but we lost track after I moved a couple of
times.

In the US, Cuneiform released some pretty amazing recent stuff.
Recommendations on Cuneiform:
Bladik, a sort of big band version of keith tippett's mujician
Silent knowledge, great set with  pianist Sophia Domanchich a.o.
Moorsong, strange hammond record. Sometimes I feel they are trying to 'fake'
a jamband album, but mostly it's just a very retro britjazz album with some
killer guitar work by Mark Hewins.

Then ,there might be interesting stuff on the British Voiceprint label.
Again, I lost track after all those badsounding archival recordings lately,
but they might have some decent Elton Dean stuff. I very migh like the
freely improvised 'The Mind in the Trees' from 1997, with bassplayer Hugh
Hopper and Francis Knight accordion.


Good luck,
Remco Takken


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:55:15 -0500
From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filles de Silent Brew

This was a transitional time for Miles.  The second great quintet was moving
on and Miles was experimenting with laying a more solid beat under his modal
experiments.  He realized that Carter was not the bassist for this type of
music, thus Dave Holland.  Hancock knew his days were numbered when he
showed up at a recording session and there was no piano.  The LP caused
little stir when it was first released, but can now be seen as the first of
his "fusion" records.  It is somewhat awkward sounding today, but in the
context of the box set sounds right at home.  In A Silent Way sounds as
awkward in it's obvious use of splicing, and not until BB was the experiment
fulfilled.

BTW, my hat is off to Columbia/Sony for releasing the Miles box sets, but
calling the last one The Complete Silent Way Sessions is really stretching
the point.  In fact for a Miles fan like myself it was rather disappointing.
  I expected to hear something more complete as to how the original
pre-Macero tapes sounded, but instead we get several versions of basically
the same material.  It would be more accurate to title these sets with years
instead of Complete so and so.  Much of this material was not intended for
In A Silent Way, or for release at all.

That said, the 2CD It's About That Time featuring the Holland-Shorter-Corea
group is fantastic.  Holland really stands out here, and IMHO was the
perfect fit for Miles.  But his replacement, Henderson, was a completely
different player more suited to what Miles was looking for.

All this and can't wait for the Cellar Door sets.  I remember first hearing
Live-Evil upon it's release and being almost as blown away as I felt with
Bitches Brew.  McLaughlin was scary.  Too bad he only sat in for two sets.
Of all the material, Macero chose just the two sets with JM to edit down for
release on Live-Evil.  Interestingly, Jarrett was, and still is, critical of
McLaughlin, yet the music really catches fire when JM plays.  A real
"fusion" of styles takes place, maybe "electric free jazz" is it's name.

Speaking of JM, does anyone know what ever happened to Rick Laird and Jerry
Goodman?  I know Goodman did one solo LP, but both seemed to disappear,
unlike Hammer (who maybe should have) and Cobham.

Alan Kayser


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:12:57 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Avant College Groups

>> Is it based on heavy metal?
Cruel Abortion might be appropriate.

It's not about heavy metal specifically.  It's not about music
specifically.  I want to incorporate all artistic disciplines (or at
least those that the members are interested in).

Zach




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:30:37 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: radio show with unusual Bar Khokba line-up (again)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel Kranendonk" <[e-mail]>
To: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:58 PM
Subject: Antw: radio show with unusual Bar Khokba line-up (again)


> Dit was oorspronkelijke mailtje:
>
> It was a show at the Tivoli in Utrecht october 28, 1996 organized by
Rumor.
> The line-up was JZ (directing, not playing), Ribot, Baron, Feldman,
> Friedlander and Baptista. Great show, one set, some 100 minutes.
> Radiobradcasts in early and late 1997.
>
> Groeten
>
> MK
> ----------



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:00:15 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filles de Silent Brew

of
> music, thus Dave Holland.  Hancock knew his days were numbered when he
> showed up at a recording session and there was no piano.  The LP
Mhm, do you mean there was no keyboard at all, of just an electric piano?
Hancock played electrics during concerts, as preserved on live tapes from
Europe, 1967.


> context of the box set sounds right at home.  In A Silent Way sounds as
> awkward in it's obvious use of splicing,
As does Live-Evil, an album released after Bitches Brew.

>
> All this and can't wait for the Cellar Door sets.  I remember first
Yeah! You might hear for the first time in 32 years what really happened
before McLauhglin's first solo. there's some severe splicing going on around
the first note McLaughlin plays.

> Live-Evil upon it's release and being almost as blown away as I felt with
> Bitches Brew.  McLaughlin was scary.  Too bad he only sat in for two sets.

> Of all the material, Macero chose just the two sets with JM to edit down
for
> release on Live-Evil.  Interestingly, Jarrett was, and still is, critical
of
> McLaughlin, yet the music really catches fire when JM plays.

I don't know what Jarrett said exactly about McLaughlin's playing on
Live-Evil, but upon the risk of (again) being identified as a member of the
pitch police, I feel the urge to state, that McLaughlin played out of tune
on this concert.

That mcLaughlin adds fire nevertheless is completely true. When hearing
this, to me it was the moment I felt I had completely overgrown the idea
that 'Miles made a bunch of double live albums in the seventies that all
sound the same'. I know a Dutch jazz musician who has a huge Electric Live
Miles tape collection, so I know there is fascinating material floating
around, some of it even spread by Miles' musicians.

When the box set's there, (I hadn't heard there actually were plans) I won't
feel the urge to go back to those lame extra studio tracks on Live-Evil.

Regards, Remco


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tomahawk?

Hey boys and girls

Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week.

Anyone ever seen them live?
Recommended? Or not worth the trip?

Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects?

Thanks for your help.

patRice

np: John Zorn, The Gift
nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:42:44 +0100
From: Alban Jacques <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk?

Yeah... normaly they would have played in strasbourg yesterday but it
was canceled... Fucking bad for me... But in fact tomahawk is for me
a kind of new faith no more... So i like them it s fun it reminds me
highschool...
A


>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100
>From: patRice <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>X-Accept-Language: en
>To: Zornlist <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Tomahawk?
>Sender: [e-mail]
>
>
>Hey boys and girls
>
>Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week.
>
>Anyone ever seen them live?
>Recommended? Or not worth the trip?
>
>Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects?
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>patRice
>
>np: John Zorn, The Gift
>nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice
>
>
>-


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:17:54 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk?

Pat,

Go! I wouldn't put it at such a high level as that of
FNM but it's a Patton live performance and I wouldn't
miss it for anything. I didn't like the record but
I'll go to their concert in Barcelona on March 8,
that's for sure.
I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's
"The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell
in love with the record although I hated it in the
first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of
this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations,
etc...).

Thanks.

EfrΘn del Valle
>
> Yeah... normaly they would have played in strasbourg
> yesterday but it
> was canceled... Fucking bad for me... But in fact
> tomahawk is for me
> a kind of new faith no more... So i like them it s
> fun it reminds me
> highschool...
> A
>
>
> >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100
> >From: patRice <[e-mail]>
> >Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >X-Accept-Language: en
> >To: Zornlist <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Tomahawk?
> >Sender: [e-mail]
> >
> >
> >Hey boys and girls
> >
> >Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK
> project next week.
> >
> >Anyone ever seen them live?
> >Recommended? Or not worth the trip?
> >
> >Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other
> projects?
> >
> >Thanks for your help.
> >
> >patRice
> >
> >np: John Zorn, The Gift
> >nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice
> >
> >
> >-
>
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:22:04 +0000
From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: hendrix bluegrass

i'm all but certain the banjo-pickin hendrix disc is called 'pickin on
hendrix'. there's a series of them, pickin' on aerosmith, others. they're,
uh, not deep, but fun enough and the playing's ok. the only reason i have a
few is that it's not too hard to find them for about $2.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:42:01 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:51:12 -0500  Rich Williams wrote:
>
>     Hmmm....and I thought it was Elton Dean and John
> Surman....Unfortunately a lot of Dean's best work is out-of-print;

It is not Surman. That I am sure.

> The 2 Ninesense LP's are highly recommended if you can
> beg/borrow/steal copies. The Quartet date on ECM "Boundaries" is

Yes, Ogun has so many treasures waiting for reissues...

> another good one.  Cuneiform has reissued his first CBS disc, with
> bonus material, but this being the zorn-list, you might want to check
> out the more experimental improv discs with Joe Gallivan, "The Cheque
> is in the mail" or "Cruel but Fair"

There are also the Soft Machine records. I just bought THIRD, unfortunately
in the US pressing which sound is quite lousy. Great Elton Dean playing on
it.

    Patrice.

PS: finally the Angel record with Reich's FOUR ORGANS/Cage's THREE DANCES has
been reissued (with a 20-finger version of Stravinsky's RITE)!

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:47:18 -0800 (PST)
From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Call for Papers," sorta

Franz Fuchs pointed us to this Heffley guy's scholarly
writing:

>>PS: An extensive and relative recent interview with
Braxton can be
found
at http://mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/ (link provided by
Jason Guthartz).
If I haven't miscalculated  the whole "thing" amounts
to ~70 000 words!
It's certainly this sheer mass that has hindered an
appropriate
discussion on the Braxton list.<<

...and I wanted to first, thank Franz, and second,
make a general request to the list for any other links
to writing-on-music available on the web. Is there a
site with loads of links to webzines, collections of
scholarly writings, etc.? The full range from lowbrow
to highbrow is appreciated.

One good bookstore in northeast Mississippi,
William Crump

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:39:34 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Elton Dean & others

>There are also the Soft Machine records. I just bought THIRD, unfortunately
>in the US pressing which sound is quite lousy. Great Elton Dean playing on
>it.

>    Patrice.

Cuneiform also released a couple great radio sessions by the Soft Machine.
Virtually (1971) is the stronger of the 2 for my money, but Noisette
(1970)was nice also and has Elton Dean joined by Lyn Dobson on sax & flute.

sean


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:07:14 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tomahawk?

I saw them this fall; it was well worth the 6 hours of driving that it
took me to get there.  I would have driven 6 more hours.  Patton was
phenomenal, though I can't compare it to any other groups b/c this was
my first Patton concert :(  I went with three people who had never heard
Patton before, they were floored and their reactions were classic (I
enjoyed them almost as much as the music).  I enjoyed the cover of
"Angel Eyes" as the encore.  Was any one else at the Chicago show on the
Saturday after Thanksgiving?

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:31:24 -0500
From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Dolphy

Hello,
     ...before this thread disappears I thought I'd give a second opinion
regarding the greatness of the "Live at the Five Spot Vol. 1" that was
mentioned a few days ago. I own this on cassette, so I've listened to this
quite a bit while driving, and on one occasion needed to pull my car onto
the side of the road until "the Prophet" was through playing. I rank this as
some of the finest Dolphy that I've heard. On the subject of group
rehearsal, does anyone know how long this group (Dolphy, Booker Little, Mal
Waldron, Ed Blackwell, and Richard Davis) were dealing w/ this material
before the recording? I hadn't thought about it before, but "...Five spot"
sits on one end of the spectrum of Dolphy recordings that I've heard, and
"Out To Lunch" sits on the other. I love them both dearly, but the former
goes much MUCH deeper into the core of what great jazz is for me personally.
    I've lent it to a friend, so please excuse the lack of concrete info, but
the Original Jazz Classics CD "Live in Europe Vol. 1" features some very
fine flute and bass clarinet playing. IIRC, "Oleo" is featured (flute) and
an amazing "God Bless the Child" (solo bass c.). I'm drawing a blank on
other players, w/ the exception of bassist Chuck Isreals. This was one of
the first recordings to really warm me to the idea of flute (Roland Kirk
also helped here). I like the playing on "Last Date" better, but the OJC
above is still very fine.
    Now, one of the first jazz discs that I purchased (over a decade ago) was a
Telstar cheapy by John Coltrane titled "Abstract Blue". Anybody familiar w/
this? The reason I ask is that Dolphy is all over this thing, but no credits
are given, and most of it is live material that may have been released in a
more attractive/appropriate package. It opens w/ a live "Mr. P.C." which
hits this shearly blissful balance of frenzy and melodics and Elvin is
positively on fire....any info would be so appreciated.

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Matthew Shipp- "Pastoral Composure" CD
NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:28:06 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:31:24 -0500  "josephneff" wrote:
>
> NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

Wow! There are still people reading John Hawkes. How long will it take for him
to get the recognition that he deserved?

Did anybody go to see BLOOD IN ORANGES? Not that I expect anything good out of
it, but just curious if the movie is worth checking (based on the novel, it
does not look like a silly enterprise to adapt it to the screen).

    Patrice (still keeping John Barth's eulogy in NYTB).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:31:32 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy, Prestige Box Live discography

Some off-list discussion going on about what kind of live material you can
find in Eric Dolphy's complete Prestige Recordings box set. This here info
from the booklet that comes with the cd's:

Concert dates:
Five Spot july 16, 1961
Copenhagen, Berlingske Has (sp?) september 6, 1961
Copenhagen, Studentenforeningens Foredragssal) september 8, 1961
(these two dates not to be confused with the ENJA release 'Stockholm
Concerts', which is NOT a Prestige recording!!)

Album titles (also available outside of the box):

Live at the Five Spot volumes 1+2
Eric Dolphy & Booker Little Memorial Album (call this volume 3)

In Europe volumes 1,2 & 3
Here and There (rest material from both five spot and europe)

There is a cheap Italian 'Immortal Concerts' cd with many good five Spot
tracks (available in Holland through V&D).

Vinyl variations, double lp's:
Status (repackaging Europe vol 2 & Here and there)
Copenhagen Concert (repackaging Europe 1 & 3)
The great concert of Eric Dolphy (all three five spot albums)






- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:41:13 -0500
From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: John Hawkes (was Dolphy)

Hello,
     ....haven't watched the movie because I haven't read the book yet, and
I make the habit of trying to do the book before the movie when at all
possible. A bookseller friend of mine has talked up Hawkes for some time, so
I decided to jump in. Quite good. I particularly like "A Little Bit of the
Old Slap and Tickle".
    Speaking of films based on literature, I've been a little weirded out by
the adaptation of Robert Coover's "The Babysitter". It's one of my all time
favorite short stories, so I've avoided watching the film, but I am quite
curious as to how the story was adapted. Has anyone watched this one?

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Mark E. Superstar- cassette
NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Patrice L. Roussel [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:28 PM
To: josephneff
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dolphy



On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:31:24 -0500  "josephneff" wrote:
>
> NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

Wow! There are still people reading John Hawkes. How long will it take for
him
to get the recognition that he deserved?

Did anybody go to see BLOOD IN ORANGES? Not that I expect anything good out
of
it, but just curious if the movie is worth checking (based on the novel, it
does not look like a silly enterprise to adapt it to the screen).

    Patrice (still keeping John Barth's eulogy in NYTB).


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #793
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