ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v03.n688

Internet Message Format | 2002-01-19 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #688
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest       Sunday, January 20 2002       Volume 03 : Number 688



In this issue:
-
       Re: 'spontaneous performance'
       continuation of spontaneous composition / performance.
       free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)
       RE: Threadgill
       Non-JZ SALE: AUTO'd Tortoise, Nobukazu Takemura
       US jazz greats plan concert in local Hell
       Re: Frith/ Kaiser - "With Friends Like These"
       More Victoriaville
       New Dave Douglas album
       Re: Jacques Rivett [was:Hal Hartley!]
       Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)
       Kaiser/Kuryokhin (was: Frith/ Kaiser)
       Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)
       Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)
       Re: Threadgill
       Re: Charlie Mariano
       Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 23:18:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 'spontaneous performance'

> No, I liked it, nothing can change that. Believe it
> or not I don't think you
> guys are the gods of free jazz : ) But you do get to
> see more of it over
> there in America and Europe than in Australia so I
> just thought I'd check
> out whether you'd seen much stuff like this, whether
> it had been discussed
> before, whether there were any opinions on this kind
> of thing, etc.

Okay, cool, now I feel much better about giving an
opinion.  Well, I think it sounds like I might have
enjoyed it.  In a lot of cases freejazzers/improvisers
demand a lot of space for their ideas to develop and I
often find it more interesting when they don't get it
and have to truly improvise and work with what happens
in a less comfortable situation.  There ARE definitely
some expectations of how some improvised music
performances will go no matter how free the context,
and I think it's great (essential!) when someone
challenges them, subtly or not.  Since the players in
that show don't seem to have had much warning that
this guy would do that kind of thing, it makes it a
little more prankish, but I find that amusing too.
And it's hilarious that the festival organizer got so
upset about it- I love music, but if you treat it so
preciously, it just becomes more conservative garbage.


Anyway, certainly no free-jazz god here.  :~)   Sounds
like a pretty interesting show to me though.

- ---Ryan Novak



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 03:49:27 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: continuation of spontaneous composition / performance.

In a message dated 01.19.02 15:44:06, [e-mail] writes:

>
>Well, screw what the hell WE think- did you like it?
>It seems like you're worried that you might have
>enjoyed something that people here could regard as
>corny or blasphemous or something.  Opinions on this
>are fine but you appear to be asking whether or not
>you should look down upon it, and decide from other
>people who probably didn't see the show you saw if you
>should like it.

i'd kind of have to say in a respect i agree with ryan here.  if you're
questioning its validity as a compositional idiom/tool/whatever, then there
are varying opinions - if you're going in highly academic circles (think
milton babbitt here) clearly spontaneous composition is not even an option
(thereby nonexistent) because of the preplanned nature of such writing.
however, spontaneous composition - which i hesitate to call 'improv', because
i think they are two different things - is widely considered in small new
music chamber groups to be something that is not only possible, but very
productive, interesting, and generally, just cool.

i was in a performance group / chamber ensemble called ensemble:rocketchrist
for a few years, and we would occasionally do these 'spontaneous
compositions' - my friend/ex-boyfriend vincent calianno would write a sketch
of kind of where we wanted to be going maybe key-wise or something and a
group of unspecified musicians would drop in and out and play or not play or
sing or not sing or just listen or move or whatever.  and we're not talking
hippie style jam shit here, we're talking honest-to-goodness real music
making.  one of these spontaneous compositions, which happened on st.
patricks day of 1999, seriously changed the way that i think about, listen
to, and write music.  there was an improvisation going on which was
formulated around a very basic descending scale --

C-Bb-G-F-D-C-Bb-C-A

where everything is descending except the C rising back from the Bb in the
last section.  i started improvising lyrics over this -

i am fall-ing float-ing in-to space

and it turned into an actual formulation for a really beautiful free
performance piece which i've done several times and had several very
different - and equally interesting (if not so effective ;) performances.

i guess my point is this: in certain academic circles, 'spontaneous
composition' is not even really an option.  however, i strongly believe that
it exists, is independent of improvisation due to some sort of mutual
understanding or mutual agreement, spoken or unspoken, of structure, (yes, i
know that improv has structure, but it's of a different *kind*), and that it
is a viable means of communication musically and can easily lead to more
solid compositions.

in conclusion, i dig it.

k8.

incidentally, i was told by my composition teacher that john zorn has been
asked and agreed to do a concert at webster university, his alma mater,
several years in a row.  however, his stipulation is to hold the concert in
the recital hall, which seats definitely under 100 people.  the
administration is so bent out of shape about their potential crowd-control
issue that they've nixed the idea until he'll agree to play a larger venue on
campus, which he flatly refuses.  i give jz mad props for not compromising
since the recital hall is a pretty cool space, and want to beat the
administration because if they are going to pay him for a residency of sorts
anyway, why don't they make him play two gigs in the recital hall and give a
master class or something, in lieu of one big concert where it will not be
intimate?

grr.

k.



- -----
hard to be an easy to please composer.
(mike rosenthal)

where there's a mission, there's a missionary.
(jim altieri)




k a t e  p e t e r s o n
composer / performer
<A HREF="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 03:54:15 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)

In a message dated 01.20.02 02:22:11, [e-mail] writes:

>Anyway, certainly no free-jazz god here.  :~)   Sounds
>like a pretty interesting show to me though.

right so, can i just throw out here that i hate the term 'free jazz'...?  i
think that it not only defines virtually nothing, but is a really pretentious
term and describes something which is just what it is - improvised sound,
improvised noise, improvised extended technique, some of which works, some of
which doesn't.  i don't necessarily think it is jazz...  i'm no expert, and
especially not an expert of jazz of any sort, but this term has bugged me
since the first time i heard it.  not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be
a good way for pretentious college students to pass off hours of aimless
noisemaking and stuff as art...

my $.02.

love,
  k8.



- -----
hard to be an easy to please composer.
(mike rosenthal)

where there's a mission, there's a missionary.
(jim altieri)




k a t e  p e t e r s o n
composer / performer
<A HREF="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:18:48 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Threadgill

for my money Too Much Sugar for a Dime is the one to check out.  Great
compositions and Gene Lake kicks ass on drums.

sean

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Julian
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:23 AM
To: &c.; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Threadgill


> I recently purchased Henry Threadgill Very, Very Circus's "Spirit of
> Nuff Nuff."  It sounded intriguing and came highly recommended by a
> friend I was with.  I'm not so sure about it right now.  I've listened
> to it several times now and only enjoy parts of it.  What are some other
> feelings on this album?

Haven't got that particular album, but I have a few other Threadgill/Very
Very Circus albums and find that I'll love one track and then be scratching
my head about another. But he's got a style all his own, and I think in the
end that's what really draws me to his stuff...


- -



- -

------------------------------

Date:
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Non-JZ SALE: AUTO'd Tortoise, Nobukazu Takemura

A few more items Zorn folks may be interested in:

** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas)
If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$ 9 -- Nobukazu Takemura - "Scope" US CD (Thrill Jockey) 1999
       [Material from 1996 - 1998.  Melodic drones, hypnotic homages
       to Oval and Reich, off-kilter glitchscapes.  Feat. Aki Tsuyuko.]
$16 -- Tortoise - "Mosquito/Onions Wrapped In Rubber/Gooseneck" US 7"
       (Torsion: b17-003-7) 1993  [2nd pressing on clear vinyl of this
       early single.  In poster sleeve.  mint/mint.  Deleted.]
$35 -- Tortoise - "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" JAP CD
       (Tokuma: tkcb-70931) 1996  [Inside sleeve AUTOGRAPHED in silver
       by Bitney, McEntire, Herndon, McCombs & Pajo (not personalized).
       9 tracks; 3 bonus cuts: "Gamera", "Goriri" & "Restless Waters".
       Mint/new with papers & obi.]

- -Patrick
[e-mail]





- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:01:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen Arthur <[e-mail]>
Subject: US jazz greats plan concert in local Hell

Hi,

This is my first post to the list.  I thought this
link would be of interest to fans of Masada and
others.

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/20/LatestNews/LatestNews.41962.html

I found it to be interesting.

Thanks,

Stephen

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:29:00 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith/ Kaiser - "With Friends Like These"

Adam Rock wrote:
>
> Frith and Kaiser's CD "With Friends Like These" is currently available at
> one of my local recording stores (how very strange!!!!). What is this CD
> like? Does anyone have any feelings as to whether or not it is a
worthwhile
> investment?
Hi, Jim Flannery's description is very well put, but beware which edition
you buy: the latest, the 2-cd 'Freinds and Enemies' from Cuneiform is the
complete re-issue of the lp's, plus unreleased 1999 duo performances, and
some live recordings from the eighties.

The older one, the single SST cd, can be seen as a 'best of', with stuff
from the two albums, and the 1980's live stuff. The fantastic 'fairly
straight' blues rendition is on both.

If you think you will like all of the music, wait for the double cd.
Regards, Remco Takken


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:09:14 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: More Victoriaville

Hey guys!

I just remembered another band from the Victoriaville program this year:
Melt Banana.

Another incredible live band. So far everything looks excellent, and my bet
is it will be another wonderful festival.

Is there an official homepage for the festival??

Peace.

NP: Han Bennink/Dave Douglas: "Serpentine"
NR: http://www.transnational.org/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:11:35 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Dave Douglas album

Hello.

Any comments on the new Dave Douglas CD with Misha Mengelberg and Han
Bennink?

Somebody mentioned that it was on a new CD format or something like that,
but what about the music?? The lineup looks superb.

Cheers!

NP: still "Serpentine"
NR: still http://www.transnational.org/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:27:57 -0800
From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jacques Rivett [was:Hal Hartley!]

>>>More recently he made "La belle noiseuse," a film about
creativity in a
story about an artist and his model.<<<

Regardless of this director's lame commentary on Kubrick, this
film is in the comatosity-as-transcendence pantheon. 4 hours of
Byrne-esque heaven. I find "La belle noiseuse" riveting the way
Abbey finds the near silence at the end of an AMM concert so. Long
stretches of graphite scratching, bristle stroking, model sitting.
And a twist ending that will leave all of you
action-adventure-speed-metal-noise freaks breathless.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:35:42 -0800
From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)

>>>not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be
a good way for pretentious college students to pass off hours of
aimless
noisemaking and stuff as art...<<<

Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me
off it's that Ornette Coleman.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:55:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kaiser/Kuryokhin (was: Frith/ Kaiser)

Though Frith is likely this thread's "spotlight", the mention of Kaiser
prompted me to pull out an early collaboration between him and Sergey
Kuryokhin on Ryko, titled _Popular Science_ .  "Goofy" is the first word that
comes to mind while listening to this one.  It seems like the musicians
rarely "click" together, but have a really fun time in trying.

Now that I've brought up Kuryokhin, has anyone heard the David Moss/Kuryokhin
title _Two For Tea_?  I'm fixing to order Vol. 2 of _Golden Years of the New
Soviet Jazz_ from Leo Records mailorder and notice he's now carrying the Long
Arms label on which this title is imprinted.  Mr. Feigin states in his mailer
"I bet you have not heard anything like this before."  That alone is enough
to pique interest here.

- --
=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:05:18 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)

>>>> not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be
> a good way for pretentious college students to pass off hours of
> aimless
> noisemaking and stuff as art...<<<
>
> Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me
> off it's that Ornette Coleman.
>
I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor what
the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2).

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:08:19 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)

In a message dated 1/20/02 3:03:19 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor
what
the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). >>

wow, that's rough. you really enjoy dropping these bombs and seeing if anyone
reacts, huh? I was surprised no one said anything about your Ayler statement
earlier in the week.

anyway, much as I think Cecil Taylor is a genius, and much as I think
Ornette's post-1970 output is thoroughly overrated, the brilliance of
Ornette's quartet work on Atlantic can't be overstated. I'd probably rather
have the Beauty is A Rare Thing box set in my collection than any of my fifty
or so Cecil CDs.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:09:04 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Threadgill

Among many other things, what I like about Threadgill is his instrumentation.
 Take the new Zooid album (which I finally got yesterday): alto/flue,
acoustic guitar, oud, tuba, cello, and drums.  Certainly not your typical
lineup.  Tuba and cello in place of bass has always held a certain appeal to
me (Arthur Blythe has used similar instrumentation).  In Threadgill's band
Make a Move, he's had both an accordian or vibes in place of a piano, while
Very Very Circus had two tubas, two guitarists, and a french horn (replaced
by trombone on 'Spirit of Nuff...Nuff').

As much as I love Air, Threadgill was clearly limited by the trio format,
IMO.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two current bands (both
quintets) are possibly the smallest formations he's had since Air.  His solo
work as been much more layered than Air, warranting many repeated listenings.
 With Threadgill, I often discover something new in his music each time I
hear it.

jeff caltabiano
n.p. kamikaze ground crew: madame marie's temple of knowledge (1993, new
world)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:09:59 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Charlie Mariano

    Whats up all?......Charlie Mariano is a remarkably gifted
musician!!!!!....If anybody is interested in learning about South Indian
Music, Mariano wrote a book called "An Introduction to South Indian Music"
and it can be found at :
    http://www.upbeat.com/caris   Caris Music....has a whole bunch of killer
books that talk about chromatic playing, modal composing, ear training, and
some Dave Liebman transcriptions......Kasra, would you like to set something
up, if I send you a tape could you make me a copy of your tape???.....Peace
in Space,
- -Ed


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:04:27 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)

>
> In a message dated 1/20/02 3:03:19 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor
> what
> the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). >>
>
> wow, that's rough. you really enjoy dropping these bombs and seeing if anyone
> reacts, huh? I was surprised no one said anything about your Ayler statement
> earlier in the week.

I wasn't dismissive of Ayler.  I just said I don't hear anything there but
other people do.
>
> anyway, much as I think Cecil Taylor is a genius, and much as I think
> Ornette's post-1970 output is thoroughly overrated, the brilliance of
> Ornette's quartet work on Atlantic can't be overstated. I'd probably rather
> have the Beauty is A Rare Thing box set in my collection than any of my fifty
> or so Cecil CDs.

Cecil and Paul Bley rocked my world.  And that Cecil group with Lacy is, I
think about as good as it gets.

As for my dropping bombs, I would assume it's far more incendiary to be an
Ornette fan than not one in most parts.  Also, I think there's a lot to be
said for the kid who accuses the emperor of being naked, no matter what
everybody else says.

My opinion of Ornette came to be when I would listen to the Atlantic stuff
and wonder why, if he's such a great saxophone guy, then why is he so
slopppy in the ensembles.  Then, I heard the Old & new Dreams albums, heard
the stuff played cleaner, and realized that the band there was absolutely
killing the music, and I realized the main reason I never liked those
Atlantic records was because the saxophone player sounded bad to me.

as ever --
skip h
np: Paul Bley -- Footloose


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #688
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]