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Zorn List Digest     Wednesday, November 21 2001     Volume 03 : Number 623



In this issue:
-
       Radish List
       Four recommendations:
       Re: Four recommendations:
       Harriet Tubman 11/27 (Boulder)
       Re: Four recommendations:
       Re: Four recommendations:
       New music in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November 20, 2001
       Rat Race of Radicalisms
       Re: Rat Race of Radicalisms
       Re: Four recommendations:
       Re: zorn/zionism (Insallah!!)
       Re: Rat Pack of Radicalisms
       Re: zorn/zionism (Insallah!!)
       islamic roots music (no downtown content)
       Re: islamic roots music (no downtown content)
       Re: Four recommendations:
       ICP Orchestra

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:31:20 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Radish List

Although when the topic turns away from music a certain lameness
arises [e.g., posts like this one], this list is still rad.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:00:21 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Four recommendations:

1)  Stefan Winter -- The Little Trumpet.  One of the JMT reissues, this one
features Tim Berne, Herb Robertson, Anthony Cox, Reggie Nicholson, Bill
frisell, Robin Eubanks, Warren Smith and Bob Stewart.  And, as the cover
boasts, the Original Booklet [is] Included!

2)  Sex Mob Does Bond -- As in James Bond movie themes a la Sex Mob.

3)  The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle.  Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, and
Matthew Shipp.  Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes and
sparse melodies.

4)  Erik Friedlander -- Grains of Paradise.  Friedlander, Trevor Dunn,
Satoshi Takeishi, Bryce Dessner, Joyce Hammann, Karen Milne, Peter Rovit.
Sounds straight outta "Circle Maker."  (I hesitate mentioning this since it
might drag out the "radical" etymology/semantic discussion, but this one's
part of Tzadik's "Radical Jewish Culture" series.  Whatever "radical" means,
this one's a keeper.)

Cheers,
Tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:05:38 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Four recommendations:

on 01.11.19 9:00 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> 3)  The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle.  Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, and
> Matthew Shipp.  Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes and
> sparse melodies.

I'll second and third this one.

Dickey's trio disc on AUMFi is also great. w/ Brown and Lightcap. A real
burner. These guys are all over each other.

Yup,
RL
- ----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Also :
 --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops;
LOVETORN; HARD BOIL;  ETC.,

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :
LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:14:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Coalition for Creative Music <[e-mail]>
Subject: Harriet Tubman 11/27 (Boulder)

The Coalition for Creative Music presents....

HARRIET TUBMAN ENSEMBLE

Brandon Ross, guitar
Melvin Gibbs, bass
J.T. Lewis, drums

Tuesday, Nov. 27, 8:00 PM
Old Main Theater
CU-Boulder
Admission is $5, CU students are free w/ID

Often compared to Bill Frisell's Power Tools trio, Harriet
Tubman creates music that is uniquely grand.  At times
forging a fusion of rock-hard drumming, rumbling bass and
soaring guitar melt, the band also has a more introspective
side that results in smooth, tranquil grooves.  The members
have collaborated with Cassandra Wilson, Archie Shepp, Bill
Frisell, Oliver Lake, and Henry Threadgill, to name a few.

Directions to Old Main:

Take US 36 to Baseline Rd.  Turn W onto Baseline.  Immediately
turn N onto Broadway.  Turn E onto University Ave.  Park.  Proceed S
on foot up hill, Old Main is a red brick building directly across from
the front of Macky Auditorium.

call 303.543.2116 for more information.  The Coalition Hotline.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:27:12 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Four recommendations:

- --part1_b8.1e9e1379.292b2790_boundary
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In a message dated 11/19/01 9:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> > 3)  The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle.  Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri,
> and
> > Matthew Shipp.  Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes
> and
> > sparse melodies.
>


That should have read "dense noisy flourishes."

Little hands of concrete,
Tom

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 11/19/01 9:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> 3)  The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle.  Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri, and<BR>
> Matthew Shipp.  Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes and<BR>
> sparse melodies.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That should have read "dense noisy flourishes."  <BR>
<BR>
Little hands of concrete,<BR>
Tom</FONT></HTML>

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:39:33 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Four recommendations:

on 01.11.19 10:27 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail]
wrote:

> In a message dated 11/19/01 9:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>
>>> 3)  The Nommonsemble -- Life Cycle.  Whit Dickey, Rob Brown, Mat Maneri,
>> and
>>> Matthew Shipp.  Music by Dickey teeters betweens dense noises flourishes
>> and
>>> sparse melodies.
>>
>
>
> That should have read "dense noisy flourishes."
>
> Little hands of concrete,
> Tom

I just assumed it was dense "nosey" flourishes...

Rrrr
- ----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Also :
 --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops;
LOVETORN; HARD BOIL;  ETC.,

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :
LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:43:19 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New music in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning November 20, 2001

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear long works by Phillip Arnautoff, Marilyn Crispell, David
First, Larry Polansky, Salvatore Sciarrino, and John Stevens.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring electro-acoustic music by composers from the West Coast of
North America, including Martin Bartlett, John Bischoff, Chris Brown,
Paul De Marinis, Paul Dolden,  Jim Horton, Peter Hannan, David
Mahler, Maggi Payne, and Carl Stone) is still available in the
Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:59:17 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rat Race of Radicalisms

>
>
> > The very idea of radicality as you mean it: -socially conscious, change-=
oriented,
> > ultra-new-, is entirely western and secular=2E
>
> Why do you say this? Is the Dalai Lama western and secular?

Traditional Tibetan Buddhism was/is extremely hierarchical and rigid, as rem=
oved from
democratic or equalitarian ideals as possible=2E The Dala=EF Lama himself re=
cognizes this,
even attributing the occupation of Tibet by China to this cultural stagnatio=
n=2E
His own sermons, shaped by his western culture and adressed mostly to wester=
ners, come
in great part out of secular humanist western culture of the past 250 years =
(human
rights for all women and men, etc=2E) and would have been unthinkable by his
predecessors=2E
Social consciousness, the idea of "progress" and the worship of "change"are =
western
inventions, which for the past century or so of course have been spreading e=
verywhere
(often misunderstood and/or the cause for massive havoc, see Lenin, Mao, Pol=
 Pot,
etc=2E)=2E
Gandhi studied and practiced western law and read and admired Thoreau (his "=
Civil
Desobedience"-pure western"radicalism"as removed from hindu/eastern thinking=
 as
possible-)=2E

Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, be=
cause it
is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention o=
f the idea
of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older re=
ligions=2E
But in as much as it clings to the Book and the Prophets, this radicalism wi=
ll seem
very traditional in the rat race of radicalisms which has sprung up since=2E

But look, everybody's tired of this debate, have your *%$!*? Jewish Radicali=
sm, and
eat it too!
Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (inclu=
ding that
outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "f=
anatic",
and not "leftist")=2E=2E=2E

Shalom,
D=2EY=2E
PS=2E can you recommend some Jewish Radical music?










- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:14:47 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rat Race of Radicalisms

On Tue, Nov 20, 2001 at 10:59:17AM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote:

> Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, because it
> is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention of the idea
> of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older religions.

Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has little to do
with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the Messiah
are also the most conservative.

> Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (including that
> outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "fanatic",
> and not "leftist")...

Well, no.

> PS. can you recommend some Jewish Radical music?

I understand that John Zorn has done some good stuff. You might be able
to find a mailing list about him.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:16:00 -0800 (PST)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Four recommendations:

Sex Mob Does Bond still hasnt grabbed me. I got it listened once, put
it away, listened again and decided its far from the sex mob I know and
love. I am not a huge fan of concept albums, not to mention a bond
related one.  It sounds very anthem-like and is somewhat reductive and
not what I expected from the mob.

With their second release I was left wanting more, thinking it would
just take time to sink in, I listened and listened and it just didnt
hit me with the same force that the first release did.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:26:36 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (Insallah!!)

>From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>

>The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Ra∩, Algeria's answer to
>rock'n
>roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish.

But radikal (and specifically rooted to its mileu) enough in the context of
Algerian kultur to have led to the murders of some of its main proponents.
And where does Sufism fit in to radical(sic) Islamic kultur? A heretical
sect that  uses mystical poetry and music in its religious practices, often
in defiance of ruling Moslem traditionalists who try to ban such practices.
Are there Sufis in Afghanistan who secretly defied the Taliban?
I think so, just like the Jews secretly defied the Inquisition in 14th and
15th century Spain.

Once again, I might remind  anyone interested in radikal Moslem musick of
groups like Ahlam and Aisha Kandisha's Jarring Effects on the Barbarity
label. Also Rachid Taha from Algeria has released some interesting
recordings, he originally led a punk group called Carte de Sejour that was
openly critical of Algerian and European mores...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:12:11 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rat Pack of Radicalisms

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>
>
> > Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible, I admit, because it
> > is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the invention of the idea
> > of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time of older religions.
>
> Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has little to do
> with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the Messiah
> are also the most conservative.

What was groundbreaking 2500 years ago can become reactionary dogma in the light of all
that it has generated.

>
>
> > Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings (including that
> > outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist" or "fanatic",
> > and not "leftist")...
>
> Well, no.

Let me just speak for french and german, in which both me and my wife are fluent natives.

> DY.
>
> -

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <i></i>
<p><i>> Jewish radicalism in the sense of "revolutionary", is plausible,
I admit, because it</i>
<br><i>> is precisely the jewish concept of messaianism which lead to the
invention of the idea</i>
<br><i>> of Progress as opposed to the eternally repetitive Wheel of Time
of older religions.</i><i></i>
<p><i>Hmm... what I know of Messianism in Judaism traditional thought has
little to do</i>
<br><i>with progress -- in fact the groups most tied into the idea of the
Messiah</i>
<br><i>are also the most conservative.</i></blockquote>
What was groundbreaking 2500 years ago can become reactionary dogma in
the light of all that it has generated.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><i></i> <i></i>
<p><i>> Don't say, however I did'nt warn you about possible misunderstandings
(including that</i>
<br><i>> outside of anglo-saxon culture, "radical" invariably means "extremist"
or "fanatic",</i>
<br><i>> and not "leftist")...</i><i></i>
<p><i>Well, no.</i></blockquote>
Let me just speak for french and german, in which both me and my wife are
fluent natives.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>DY.
<p>-</blockquote>
</html>

- --------------FCF07E42F2885D9C9716776D--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:35:30 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (Insallah!!)

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>
>
> >The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Ra∩, Algeria's answer to
> >rock'n
> >roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish.
>
> But radikal (and specifically rooted to its mileu) enough in the context of
> Algerian kultur to have led to the murders of some of its main proponents.

> Because they were singing about forbidden "impure" profane subjects, like
> women and love, corrupting youth away from the Coran.

 DY.


>
>
>
>
> -

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<p><i>>The most radical "Islamic" music I know of is Raï, Algeria's
answer to</i>
<br><i>>rock'n</i>
<br><i>>roll, no more Islamic than Reggae is Jewish.</i><i></i>
<p><i>But radikal (and specifically rooted to its mileu) enough in the
context of</i>
<br><i>Algerian kultur to have led to the murders of some of its main proponents.</i></blockquote>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Because they were singing about forbidden "impure"
profane subjects, like women and love, corrupting youth away from the Coran.</blockquote>
 DY.
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>
<br><a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"></a>
<p>-</blockquote>
</html>

- --------------F822CA636693BAC556950B2C--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:29:36 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: islamic roots music (no downtown content)

can anyone recommend a good volume on the moorish incursion into spain and
the subsequent cultural impact?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:21:46 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: islamic roots music (no downtown content)

> can anyone recommend a good volume on the moorish incursion into spain and
> the subsequent cultural impact?
>
Any traditional flamenco record is a consequence of the mozarabic culture,
especially, but not only, when there are vocals.

Expect more specific answers from those Zornlisters who live in Spain, and
maybe specialised lovers of cross-cultural phenomenons.

Regards, Remco Takken


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:03:04 -0500
From: Alan Lankin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Four recommendations:

Sex Mob's Steven Bernstein will be on NPR's Fresh Air today.

Alan Lankin

[e-mail]
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net



At 10:16 AM 11/20/2001 -0800, jason tors wrote:
>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:16:00 -0800 (PST)
>From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Four recommendations:
>To: zornlist <[e-mail]>
>Sender: [e-mail]
>
>Sex Mob Does Bond still hasnt grabbed me. [...]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:02:15 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ICP Orchestra

I saw the ICP Orchestra in Ann Arbor last night.  As expected, they were
amazing.  Don't miss them if they come anywhere near your town.  They are a
great group of listeners and improvisors who can also tear up an Ellington
or Monk number.  any member of the group can wrestle control at any moment;
beautiful musical anarchy.  Misha Mengelberg is a treasure and Han Bennink
is a madman.  don't miss out.  They're at Tonic tonite in NYC.  I tacked the
tour itinerary from Karen Murphy at the bottom for handy reference.  go see
them.  sean

Instant ComposerÆs Pool Orchestra
featuring
Misha Mengelberg - piano
Ab Baars - clarinet/sax
Michael Moore - clarinet/sax
Thomas Heberer - trumpet
Wolter Wierbos - trombone
Mary Oliver - violin/viola
Tristan Honsinger - cello
Ernst Glerum - bass
Han Bennink - drums

Nov 16: Minneapolis, Walker Arts Center

Nov 17: Edmonton

Nov 18: Vancouver, Western Front

Nov 20: Ann Arbor, Kerrytown Concert House

Nov 21: NYC, Tonic

Nov 23: Atlanta, First Existentialist Congregation

Nov 24: Montreal

Nov 25: Toronto, Rough Trade

Nov 26: Chicago

Nov 27: Pittsburgh, Bellefield Hall Auditorium


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #623
*******************************


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