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Zorn List Digest       Friday, November 2 2001       Volume 03 : Number 605



In this issue:
-
       addendum to angry zorns
       RE: angry zorns
       Re: Laswell
       Re: Le Quan Ninh
       recommendation request
       Re: recommendation request
       THE PRESTIDIGITATORS on oTo, etc.
       RE: recommendation request
       Re: recommendation request
       Re: recommendation request
       Re: angry zorns
       Re: recommendation request
       Re: recommendation request
       Re: recommendation request
       Re: recommendation request
       RE: recommendation request
       RE: recommendation request

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:05:15 -0500
From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: addendum to angry zorns

Of course...I didn't mention that it was at
Anthology...(http://www.anthologyfilmarchives.org)

Cheers!
Nirav


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:29:11 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: angry zorns

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Nirav Soni
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 2:03 PM

> Proceeds generated will go towards funding Anger's proposed GNOSTIC MASS
> film project.
> In addition to the presentation of the complete MAGICK LANTERN CYCLE, the
> evening will be interspersed with live music performances by JOHN ZORN and
> BILL LASWELL

Zorn and the OTO in the same e-mail message and the same event -- I can't
believe it. I guess the connection here is more between Anger and Zorn (no
pun intended, really) than between Zorn and the Great Beast, but still...

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
ICQ: 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 01:33:08 +0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell

>From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Laswell
>
>Since Laswell is being discussed so much...What are the opinions of the
>list
>on the Pathalassa Remixes by Laswell and others?  I like the original
>material immensely, but are the remixes worth listening to?


There's an extended eight minute riff from "On the Corner" copped from the
original masters that's worth listening to.  The rest of the remixes are
crap as far as I'm concerned.  I'd avoid it.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 12:00:39 +0200
From: Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh

I agree with what wrote Jon. How could it be else :-)
Le Quan Ninh is a so great musician.

I definitely recommend 3 some recent cds:
"La voyelle liquide" with Gunter Muller on Erstwhile.
"Quatuor Helios" on Vandoeuvre label (fantastic!)
"Credo in us" on Wergo label. (John Cage's compositions played by
french Quatuor Helios).

Jacques Oger

>
>
>Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:43:25 EST
>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh
>
>In a message dated 10/31/01 12:37:23 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< who/what is Le Quan Ninh?. Whatever it is,
>
>will be playing in Barcelona next week and I'd like to
>
>know if it's interesting. >>
>
>Ninh is one of the premier percussionists in the world, working both in
>improv and in modern classical. his web site is at http://ninh.free.fr,
>there's a bio on the Euro Free Improv site (www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/),
>and there was just a long audio sample posted at www.allsound.org.
>
>Jon
>www.erstwhilerecords.com
>
>- -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 23:30:21 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: recommendation request

Hey folks,
I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these
artists:
- - Sun Ra
- - Albert Ayler
- - Elliot Sharp
I've got a really small amount of each (a track or two on a compilation,
that kind of thing) and think it is time I got more...
Thanks,
Julian.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:04:12 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recommendation request

> I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these
> artists:
> - Elliot Sharp
I would be helped myself to know where to start with Mr Sharp. I know about
a fairly recent cd where he tackles the blues: Elliot Sharp's Terraplane has
a title out on Knitting Factory. That should be a nice place to start,
although I have no clear oversight regarding his other works.

> - Sun Ra
> - Albert Ayler
For the two above, my help might be more fruitful. Sun Ra's work is divided
in different styles and periods. I would simply advise you to listen to at
least ten titles, all from different periods. From 1964 on, it was all free
jazz, and in late seventies trad jazz creeped back in. Any Cook&Morton, or
rough guide to jazz might help you in choosing titles, but it is also a
matter of availability which ones you choose to listen first.

'Evidence' has a greatest hits album, but that one surpasses any sonic
experiment.
Earlier experiments in jazz:
Fate in  a pleasant mood/ When Sun Comes Out

For spacey, experimental albums:
Other planes of there
Heliocentric Worlds vol 1&2 (I wrote the liner notes for those, so I am
sorry for the propaganda. They just sound really good)

Groovy albums:
The Great Lost Sun Ra Albums (a double cd)

Then, at some point in the seventies, Sun Ra's Arkestra revived parts of
jazz history in their music. You just have to hear some of those concerts
where the history of jazz is rehashed in a few hours.

Albert Ayler made an album on Impulse, which has something of everything he
does, and more: Love Cry.

One of his cool early concerts with his brother Donald is to be found on
Spirits Rejoice (again I wrote some *butcheredbyhalfbraineditors* notes on
the cd-re-release, but it IS great music). Live at Greenwich Village, and
also Aylers breakthrough album Spiritual Unity are must haves for anyone
interested in John Zorn and free sax playing in general.

There are many concerts and early sessions released after Aylers death in
1970. All of them are interesting, but not many of them sound well. Also
Impulse played a strange role in Aylers brief soul or jazz rock career. Two
or three albums are in this vein. They are pretty rare nowadays, and contain
strange, uneasy mixtures of main stream pop music, r'n'b sax honking, and
pseudospiritual chants. Aylers early record with 'Spirituals and Gospels' is
out of print for a long time now.
Hope this helps,
Remco Takken


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:08:24 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: THE PRESTIDIGITATORS on oTo, etc.

THE PRESTIDIGITATORS oTo T34
(cassette tape ltd. 50 numbered copys)

"Beautifully brutal jazz-noise aggro. Totally
exhilarating blow-out catharsis. Absolutely drives you
sane. One of my (Rob's) personal faves. As good as any
noise you'll hear this year, guaranteed."

Michael Gillham
(drums, sax, guitar, turntable, electronics)
Bennett
(guitar, electronics)

For mp3 sample and more information link to oTo via
FFR.
http://www.fencingflatworm.cjb.net/


Still available:

MICHAEL GILLHAM oTo T22
(cassette tape ltd. 50 numbered copys)

"A wonderful swarm of guitar drones. Like being a grub
eating honey in your hexagonal cell and listening to
the rest of ther hive go about the day."

Michael Gillham
(organ, electronics)

For mp3 sample and more information link to oTo via
FFR.
http://www.fencingflatworm.cjb.net/




____________________________________________________________
Nokia Game is on again.
Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new
all media adventure before November 3rd.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:07:44 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: recommendation request



- - Sun Ra

check out "cosmic tones / art forms"

- - Albert Ayler

The Greenwich Village 2CD set on Impulse is good ("Marching Band on Acid"
stuff)
"My Name is Albert Ayler" gives a good sense of his playing within a
standard setting
and then there's "spiritual Unity" and "Bells/Prophecy" formerly on ESP but
now reissued by Get Back and Calibre.
...depends what you're looking for

- - Elliot Sharp

no comment.

Matt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 03:11:04 -0500
From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recommendation request

Hello,
         ....some thoughts on Ra and Ayler....the Arkestra's "Concert For
the Comet Kohoutek" is one of my favorites from the group's experimental era
and it will probably be reissued by Eclipse sometime on the not far distant
future. The wild assed synth playing particularly stands out on this one.
Regarding Ayler, most of the bases seem to have been covered, but I'll
mention the "New York Eye & Ear Control" soundtrack with Don Cherry, John
Tchicai, Roswell Rudd, Gary Peacock, and Sunny Murray. Some people belittle
this one, but it's always sounded good to me. It's a nice collective gush.
Another good one is Sunny Murry's recording "Sonny's Time Now" w/ Ayler,
Cherry, Henry Grimes, Louis Worrell, and Leroi Jones. Gnawing, unsettling
music that has given me gooseflesh on more than a few occasions. The Ayler
to start w/ IMHO is "Spiritual Unity", though.

      ...haven't heard much E. Sharp. Always wanted to pick up that
Bootstrappers rec he was on w/ Hurley and Watt. How was that one?

I remain.....

Joseph

NP: Dominic Duval/Jason Kao Hwang "The Experiment" CD
NR: Nicholson Baker "The Mezzanine"






- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:47:19 +0100
From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recommendation request

Hi Julian,

J> I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these
J> - Elliot Sharp
"SyndaKit", a composition for 12 musicians
"Blackburst" (w/ Zeena Parkins), e# as an improviser
"High Noon" (w/ Christian Marclay), improvised stuff, too
"Amusia", his more rock like stuff

collaborations:
Zorn/Previte/Horvitz/Sharp: "Downtown Lullaby", four grandmasters of
improvised music doing their best

I haven't heard his blues album on knitting factory, yet, but if it is
similar to their performance in saalfelden this year, it should be a
fine record, too.

and there are some samples at mp3.com.

PEACE

 Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
                              ICQ: 96771783
                              http://nav.to/timblech
- --
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across
the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and
everybody goes "Awww!"
                                                          Jack Kerouac


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:45:53 -0500
From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: angry zorns

Any one here attend? Did Laswell show up?


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 10:26:50 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recommendation request

Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with all
my heart.  It not only contains hours of great performances, but also
provides a strong career overview.  Can't recommend many things in life this
highly.

skip h
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 13:34:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: recommendation request

In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with
all
my heart.  It not only contains hours of great performances, but also
provides a strong career overview.  Can't recommend many things in life this
highly. >>

wow, I was a little worried when I actually agreed with Skip about something
(Fela/Laswell), but now I feel like things are back to normal again.

I'd suggest getting almost any pre-1980 Sun Ra disc before getting the
Singles, to me it captures very little of what makes him so great. my faves
are Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy, Other Planes Of There, Black Myth/Out In
Space, Atlantis, and both volumes of Heliocentric Worlds.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 10:58:31 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: recommendation request

>
> In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with
> all
> my heart.  It not only contains hours of great performances, but also
> provides a strong career overview.  Can't recommend many things in life this
> highly. >>
>
> wow, I was a little worried when I actually agreed with Skip about something
> (Fela/Laswell), but now I feel like things are back to normal again.
>
> I'd suggest getting almost any pre-1980 Sun Ra disc before getting the
> Singles, to me it captures very little of what makes him so great. my faves
> are Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy, Other Planes Of There, Black Myth/Out In
> Space, Atlantis, and both volumes of Heliocentric Worlds.
>
> Jon
> www.erstwhilerecords.com
>
> -
>
Well, your recommendations are certain great (espec Heliocentric Worlds),
but I've found -- during my years as a retail clerk and even since -- that
if you get into Sun Ra's earliest phase and then follow his progression
outward, it gets a little more user-friendly.

My first Ra LP was Heliocentric Worlds Vol 2, and I couldn't get near it.
Then I got hipped to Sound Sun Pleasure and Sound Of Joy, and was hooked, so
by the time I got back to the sixties albums, I was pretty much drooling.
And, among those I've talked to about this, my story is pretty typical.  His
language -- musically -- during the free period seems a little less easily
explained than -- as an example only -- someone like Cecil Taylor, so it
helps to make it there with some vocab under your belt.

Also, in ref to the singles, "The Blue Set" is absolutely one of the
pinnacle moments of him, and I cannot recommend this one heavily enough to
anyone who wants to hear what separates Ra fr the rest of jazz composers
while tying him ineffably to the tradition.

skip h

np: caetano veloso, prenda minha


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:28:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: recommendation request

In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love with all
>  my heart.  It not only contains hours of great performances, but also
>  provides a strong career overview.  Can't recommend many things in life
this
>  highly.
>
>  skip h


Then let me second Skip's recommendation.  THE SINGLES is perhaps my favorite
Sun Ra release.  Hey, you can dance to it.

Tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:32:16 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: recommendation request

I'd have to go with Skip on this one; The first albums I heard were the two
Heliocentric worlds, and they scared me off for a year or two.  Blue delight
brought me back around (tough to find now), but i've since come to enjoy the
50's chicago period probably more than any other.  The singles IS a decent
overview, and can help you nail down which periods you prefer.  If you
really dig the freejazz caterwauling bliss thing, go with Jon's
recommendations, if you want to ease in a bit more gently, check the 50's
stuff and go forward thru time, but DEFINITELY check out more than one or
two albums.  His catalog warrants it.  sean

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Skip Heller
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 1:59 PM
To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: recommendation request




>
> In a message dated 11/2/01 1:25:51 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Nobody seems to have recommended Sun Ra's THE SINGLES, which I love
with
> all
> my heart.  It not only contains hours of great performances, but also
> provides a strong career overview.  Can't recommend many things in life
this
> highly. >>
>
> wow, I was a little worried when I actually agreed with Skip about
something
> (Fela/Laswell), but now I feel like things are back to normal again.
>
> I'd suggest getting almost any pre-1980 Sun Ra disc before getting the
> Singles, to me it captures very little of what makes him so great. my
faves
> are Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy, Other Planes Of There, Black Myth/Out
In
> Space, Atlantis, and both volumes of Heliocentric Worlds.
>
> Jon
> www.erstwhilerecords.com
>
> -
>
Well, your recommendations are certain great (espec Heliocentric Worlds),
but I've found -- during my years as a retail clerk and even since -- that
if you get into Sun Ra's earliest phase and then follow his progression
outward, it gets a little more user-friendly.

My first Ra LP was Heliocentric Worlds Vol 2, and I couldn't get near it.
Then I got hipped to Sound Sun Pleasure and Sound Of Joy, and was hooked, so
by the time I got back to the sixties albums, I was pretty much drooling.
And, among those I've talked to about this, my story is pretty typical.  His
language -- musically -- during the free period seems a little less easily
explained than -- as an example only -- someone like Cecil Taylor, so it
helps to make it there with some vocab under your belt.

Also, in ref to the singles, "The Blue Set" is absolutely one of the
pinnacle moments of him, and I cannot recommend this one heavily enough to
anyone who wants to hear what separates Ra fr the rest of jazz composers
while tying him ineffably to the tradition.

skip h

np: caetano veloso, prenda minha


- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:58:16 -0800
From: "Jim McLoughlin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: recommendation request

Hi

- ---
I'm wondering what would be a good starting point for getting into these
artists:
- - Sun Ra
- ---

Oh, so many to choose from.  Here are my favorites:

- - Sun Song: early release, great sound.  Inside with a twinge of weirdness
in the arrangements.
- - Jazz in Silhouette: Also a greatly arranged, lush.  Like the above, you
really see sun ra's roots in traditional jazz a la his idol Fletcher
Henderson.
- - The Singles: great 2 CD collection of rare material including side
projects he did conducting doo-wop groups.  I have to disagree with Jon on
this - these are some of the most unique recordings in his discography
compared to the myriad of "out" records, so I consider it pretty essential.
- - Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy / Art Forms of a Dimension Tommorrow:
(second someone elses recomendation).  This is my fav of the more out stuff
(Heliocentri worlds a close second), with some nasty inter-galactic
groove/swing thrown in occasionally.
- - Lanquidity: Recently re-issued rare lp, kind of a spacy funk thing form
the 70's, closer to a 70's miles sound (but by no means the same).  Lots of
reverb.  More funk than swing compared to other Ra discs.

there are many others I like, including a later album with all walt disney
tunes (on Leo), but that's a start.

- ---
- - Albert Ayler
- ---

Spiritual Unity

- ---
- - Elliot Sharp
- ---

- - I second the Terraplane recommendation, as I really like the
blue/drumnbass mix on the second CD, and Sim Cain's electronic/acoustic
drumming is awesome.  The first CD of more straight ahead blues material is
good, but I don't listen to it as much.
- - Monster Curve is a nice compilation of early Carbon material which is
pretty essential to his discography.
- - Tectonics: Field and Stream.  This is more electronic / drumnbass stuff,
mixing guitar, laptop generated beats, sax.  Mostly composed/performed by
Sharp.

Enjoy...

JM


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #605
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