On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 03:26:06AM -0000, Millie Gorgon wrote:
> this is interesting and is exactly the type of sentiment that might fit well into a political discussion about the Mideast. unfortunately, not even the ambivalence is expressed much of anywhere in the RJC. and it doesn't change the fact that their is no indication of the current Mideast even existing in Zorn's music or the RJC Series (counterexamples?).
One point that I think is being missed is that, as shown by Mandel's
interview with Sharp, the RJC is not really a group, but is a label that
Zorn has given to a series of CDs that Tzadik puts out. There really is
no group to have such an opinion, or even to share a solid ambivalence.
If a collective did exist, this might or might not be an issue that it
chooses to address.
Looking at it from the personal point of view of my own art (yes, a
phrase that feels uncomfortably self-important to type): There are
several issues on which I have quite strong viewpoints (Gee, no one
would guess that from reading my posts *grin*). These rarely come out
in my music, though, and while I used to write poetry on some of the
issues, I've pretty much stopped. Why? Because the tools of art are
often not particularly effective in dealing with the issues. Why write
a string quartet about an issue when a letter, a magazine article, a
protest march, or an election campaign may be more effective?
The statement that "Writing about music is like dancing about
architecture" had a famous B-side, when a movie mogul a long time ago
was asked about the message of his movies: "If you want to send a
message, use Western Union".
Come to think of it, and this might be applicable to some of the work
by the artists in question: I have written, performed, and recorded at
least one piece that was directly prompted by the issues in Israel, in
particular events in Hebron. But, since the music is a bit abstract, I
doubt that would be perceived from the sounds themselves.
That said, I strongly believe, and often quote, John Cage's statement:
"... the performance of a piece of music can be a metaphor of
society, or how we want society to be.... We could make a piece
of music in which we are willing to live."
My particular focus of interest is in improvisation structures (akin
to Zorn's game works) as models for human interaction. So I've worked
a lot with some political issues (some might say from a radical
perspective) within the music that I do. (You can see me rant on at
even greater length on this when my book "Surprise Me with Beauty:
the Music of Human Systems" is published in about a month.)
But it is difficult for music to represent opinions on complex political
issues, and unreasonable to demand that it do so.
> >How about if you actually go over there, live a while, get to know
> >people on both sides there, and then attempt to form an easy
> >opinion. I suspect that your moccasins have not yet logged that mile.
>
> you pegged me right - i'm young. i'm guilty. i've never been to Hebron.
> however, i don't wear moccasins. you might be interested to know that young hippy activist types never like me. why are we talking about me?
OK, context error: this was a reference to the aphorism that "you
cannot truly understand a person until you have walked a mile in his
moccasins."
Why are we talking about ourselves and each other? Because political
beliefs and opinions cannot exist in a vacuum: they are held by
people, and understanding the human context of a person's beliefs is
difficult without understanding the context in which they came about.
> i'm not confusing them - i'm just saying it's better when artists don't make such a clear distinction between art/culture and politics. and that's what we should demand from artists who are central to Radical movements in art before we howl in favor of them. it's funny you mention food- Alvin Curran at least mentions Matzoh in the liner notes to Animal Behavior. but not a squeak about colonization.
Ah, but note that "Animal Behaviour" is not part of the Radical Jewish
Culture series.
You see, there is no evidence that the artists are making any such
distinction. To make a distinction implies a conscious consideration
of the issue and a willful refusal to deal with it. Rather, it just is
not a part of the pieces that are in the series.
How would you have addressed the issues within, say, Shelley Hirsch's
"O Little Town of East New York", Richard Teitlebaum's "Golem", or
any of the many textless works in the series?
And have you considered working with artists to develop a piece which
does address your concerns, and submitting it to Zorn? I strongly
suspect that if such a piece came his way and met his artistic
standards (and budget), he would be quite open to placing it in the
series.
> could be that the current role of art and behavior of artists is impoverished and useless?
To paraphrase Keepnews again, "Useless to whom?"
Some might say that one feature of "art" is that it tends not to be
"useful".
> and as incredible and beautiful as Zorn's music is, that, in the end, it is nothing but a a series of statements limited within a self-circumscribed community of artists that professes to be, somehow, radical.
Would the work be more acceptable if, for example, they had termed it "Contemporary Jewish Culture"? Is it a matter of a feeling of ownership of the term "radical"?
> contrast with rural american folk and blues - there was always subject matter about power and current events; this was how music existed long before the commodified, self-referencing form we consume now.
But, on the other hand, why would one possibly want to limit art to
the discussion of these issues?
An examination of musics outside those of contemporary and rural
America (as well as a closer examination of just those rural
materials) might prove surprising in its range. While some have sung
of current events and power, many sang of love, of work, of family, of
religion, of mortality, and of every aspect of human life, as well as
the huge amounts of instrumental musics without topics. To say that
only the corner of music concerning "power and current events" existed
is to evince a lack of information about the real range of these
musics.
> this will probably be my last response; i think we're both beating our respective dead horses. (with clarinets)
I suspect that are horses are still alive, and may yet be capable of
traveling in compatible directions.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
