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2001-08-20
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #533
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, August 20 2001 Volume 03 : Number 533
In this issue:
-
Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?
Re: Tzadik Radio Hour
Beuysblock is Great
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
RE: Beuysblock is Great
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Re: Zorn's Next Major Project
RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:50:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?
> Hi Zornfolk,
> i'm in the process of a writing an article about
> Zorn & was wondering --
> what do you folks know about his politics?
According to what Zorn answered to that question to a
Spanish magazine, he is not interested in politics at
all. Musically, he just intended to "find new paths in
Jewish music" with his Masada project, but as you well
point out, the fact that he has gathered a large
number of Jewish musicians around him and devoted a
complete series through Tzadik to them makes the whole
thing a bit suspicious.
IMHO he has taken the "protectionist" role with the
Jewish musicians, an attitude that I really think can
become narrow-minded and maybe even exclusivist as the
past has shown repeatedly.
Just an opinion.
Regards,
EfrΘn
PS: Now looking forward to the Slippenbach trio
concert in Barcelona on August 30 (with Evan Parker!!!)
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente -
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:12:36
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tzadik Radio Hour
>Has anyone heard the Tzadik radio hour hosted by Zorn? Like the >Zorn
>Radio Hour from 1990ish, it is hosted by Zorn, but this one >features only
>Tzadik artists. I just stumbled across it at the radio >station I work at.
>It's much more enjoyable than the Hermetic >Theater....
Yes, I have this (but can't make copies since it's on the other side of the
country now, sorry). I guess he does a good job of picking out some of the
more interesting stuff from the catalog, which was patchy even back then
(early '99?), and he is really enthusiastic. But I guess you would have to
be really enthusiastic to come up with some of those obi/press release
descriptions. Oh, man.
But the other Zorn Radio hour is even better, it was the first time I heard
James BLood Ulmer's 'Black Rock', Napalm Death's Peel Sessions stuff or
Lennie Tristano's 'Line-Up.' Zorn does have good taste.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:13:19 +0200
From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU>
Subject: Beuysblock is Great
Zorn-agains,
Must say, the Bueysblock track with the many many sounds is really
inspiring. I love it. (Although I didn't care for the power saw noise). It
alone ( + cover art) makes the purchase worthwhile.
greetings,
Rob @ risk
np: Madness, Love & Mysticism - Zorn John
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:17:20 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Benjamin,
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:58:19 -0400 Benjamin Pequet wrote:
>
> At 13:34 16/08/01 -0700, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote:
> >I think that the best that could happen to Zorn is to drop *100%* Masada.
> >Masada has almost killed my interest in Zorn, and since his classical
> >compositions are, IMHO, quite weak and derivative,
>
> Agreed 100% on what you write about masada above, and 0% on your comment
> about Zorn's classical output which is unfounded IMHO. (I am curious -
> derivative from what?)
I don't know your background (rock, jazz, contemporary?), but with the main
exception of ELEGY and KRISTALLNACHT, I find Zorn's classical compositions to
be nice exercizes with little originality (or surprise). What he is doing with
most of his recent classical compositions does not reach, IMHO, the ankle of
what he did with his game pieces, and other 80's projects (LOCUS SOLUS).
Nice seems to be the qualifier that applies the best to most of his classical
production, and we all know how much credit we can give to this qualifier.
I am almost tempted to establish a parallel with Zappa who reached a relative
(still small) classical credibility with what was not his most orginal and
groundbreaking output.
Patrice.
NP: Product of the Environment
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:30:35 +0200
From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU>
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
Patrice,
You don't like Masada, you don't like his classical stuff, you probably
don't like the hermetic songs. Maybe you should get ready for the "Van
Halen-mailing list" ;-)
>>> I think that the best that could happen to Zorn is to drop *100%*
>>> Masada.
>>> Masada has almost killed my interest in Zorn, and since his classical
>>> compositions are, IMHO, quite weak and derivative,
greetings,
Rob @ risk
np: M, L & Mysticism
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:53:41 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:30:35 +0200 Rob Allaert wrote:
>
> Patrice,
>
> You don't like Masada, you don't like his classical stuff, you probably
> don't like the hermetic songs. Maybe you should get ready for the "Van
> Halen-mailing list" ;-)
Fortunately there are more alternatives than Van Halen :-).
Seriously, am I the only one to think that Zorn's 90's production pales in
comparison to the 80's one, as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned?
I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his buddies,
his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess
up the whole thing. Almost like a king surrounded by obedient vassals who
never dare to make any critic...
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:01:15 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
In a message dated 8/20/01 5:54:46 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes:
<< am I the only one to think that Zorn's 90's production pales in
comparison to the 80's one, as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned? >>
no, of course not. most people think this, at least the ones I talk to.
haven't we been over this ground before here?
<<I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his
buddies,
his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess
up the whole thing.>>
I'd say that's a pretty dead on statement also. I'd add that the quality
control at Tzadik, especially over the last few years, is among the worst of
any experimental label I can think of.
Yo! I Killed your God, indeed.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:22:54 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <bvergara@sfsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Beuysblock is Great
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Rob Allaert
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:13 PM
> Must say, the Bueysblock track with the many many sounds is really
> inspiring. I love it.
I agree -- too bad I can't say the same for the other tracks! I have nothing
against Zorn's experiments in this vein of "computer music," but the thing
is, noise and electro-glitch artists are a dime a dozen, and there are
already a good handful of folks who do that sort of thing extremely well.
(There's a nice texture to "The Nerve Key," but anything by Autechre or Aube
or Bernhard Gunter (turned way up) crushes it like a grape.)
Later,
Ben
my pick of the week: http://www.thebankoftime.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:21:52 EDT
From: Knutboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
- --part1_54.1980cd75.28b2e780_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I also agree. Some of his champer pieces I find interesting, but overall I
find his never ending output to be quite dull. "The Gift" was a complete
burdon and obligation for me to get through. I was in the habit of picking up
anything he released, but that has now stopped. Now it's all Mego and
Erstwhile for me...
Steve
- --part1_54.1980cd75.28b2e780_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I also agree. Some of his champer pieces I find interesting, but overall I
<BR>find his never ending output to be quite dull. "The Gift" was a complete
<BR>burdon and obligation for me to get through. I was in the habit of picking up
<BR>anything he released, but that has now stopped. Now it's all Mego and
<BR>Erstwhile for me...
<BR>
<BR>Steve</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_54.1980cd75.28b2e780_boundary--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:53:57 -0700
From: William Crump <william@steno.com>
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
I agree with Patrice's comments, and think he's made two comments that cut most
deeply to the heart of the matter, especially:
>>I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his buddies,
his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess
up the whole thing. Almost like a king surrounded by obedient vassals who
never dare to make any critic...<<
Whatever goals JZ may have set for himself in the last several years may interest
him, but they don't interest me. And he definitely hasn't put himself in any
dangerous or even adventurous musical situations as an improvisor. The nice cozy
niche is rocking him into a stupor with a Downtown Lullaby.
And the comparison to Frank Zappa is very well made. To support that, I want to
mention a couple of releases that really highlight some great compositions, but
which are not necessarily the compositions that the "classical community" turned
attention to. "Music by Frank Zappa" by the Omnibus Wind Ensemble and "Frank
Zappa on Baroque Instruments" by the Ensemble Ambrosius are really tasty, and
they're what I listen to when I want to listen to Zappa these days, but there's
no sign of Sinister Footwear, Mo 'n' Herb's Vacation, any of the LSO stuff. Zorn
the composer probably won't be properly evaluated until after his death, the way
I think it was with Zappa, but I'll go out on a ledge and say that if he quit
composing now, he wouldn't measure up against other 20th/21st century composers.
Prone to generalization and sweeping pronouncements,
William Crump
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:28:49 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project
On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 03:53:57PM -0700, William Crump wrote:
> Zorn
> the composer probably won't be properly evaluated until after his death, the way
> I think it was with Zappa, but I'll go out on a ledge and say that if he quit
> composing now, he wouldn't measure up against other 20th/21st century composers.
I'm hopeful that he would -- but guess that had he stopped in, say,
1994, the measure would be about the same.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:33:57 -0400
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Next Major Project
- --Boundary_(ID_vvIZLjsJfi75nkqMsOEt/w)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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>Another thing I think would be cool would be something
>similar to Big Gundown, new arrangements of other
people's material
Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover
arrangements he did for Naked City.
There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of;
E Cars (Ornette Coleman)
Surfer girl (Brian Wilson)
Church Key ( Arnold)
Erotico (Morricone)
Back In The Earth (Live Skull)
Once Upon A Time In America (Morricone)
Theme From Taxi Driver (Herrmann)
Theme From Body Heat (Barry)
The Man From Uncle (?)
Theme From Hawaii 5-0 (?)
Peter Gunn theme (Mancini)
Theme From Henry, Portrait Of A Serial Killer (?)
Pet Sounds (Brian Wilson)
In My Room (Brian Wilson)
Baja (Morricone)
Broken Shadows (Ornette Coleman)
Super Stupid (P-Funk)
Zapata (Morricone)
The Yodel (?)
Strange Cargo (?)
Truth or Dare (Zorn)
Spagetti & Cheese (Morricone)
The Mystery song (Ellington)
Funky Stuff (Larry Davis)
You Only Live Twice (Barry)
A Night In Tunisia (Ellington)
Rosemary's Baby (K.Komeda)
The List of Adrian Messenger (Goldsmith)
The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin)
Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (from Thunderball)
Kaila (?)
Graveyard Of The Brotherhood (?)
Baby Doll (Ellington)
Rapid Shave (Shirley Scott)
Sunset Surfer (Zorn)
Jezebel (?)
The Bad & The Beautiful (?)
Lying on the Sofa of Life (DNA)
The Way It Feels (Patton)
The Poverty theme (Morricone)
The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin)
Devils Island (Shorter)
Mary T (?)
Milano Odea (Morricone)
Ride On A Dolphin (Smith)
Ski Scene(From Thunderball)
Our Man Flint (Goldsmith)
- --Boundary_(ID_vvIZLjsJfi75nkqMsOEt/w)
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: Zorn's Next Major Project</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Another thing I think would be cool would
be something<br>
similar to Big Gundown, new arrangements of other</blockquote>
<div>people's material</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover
arrangements he did for Naked City.</div>
<div>There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know
of;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial Narrow" color="#000000">E Cars (Ornette
Coleman)<br>
Surfer girl (Brian Wilson)<br>
Church Key ( Arnold)<br>
Erotico (Morricone)<br>
Back In The Earth (Live Skull)<br>
Once Upon A Time In America (Morricone)<br>
Theme From Taxi Driver (Herrmann)<br>
Theme From Body Heat (Barry)<br>
The Man From Uncle (?)<br>
Theme From Hawaii 5-0 (?)<br>
Peter Gunn theme (Mancini)<br>
Theme From Henry, Portrait Of A Serial Killer (?)<br>
Pet Sounds (Brian Wilson)<br>
In My Room (Brian Wilson)<br>
Baja (Morricone)<br>
Broken Shadows (Ornette Coleman)<br>
Super Stupid (P-Funk)<br>
Zapata (Morricone)<br>
The Yodel (?)<br>
Strange Cargo (?)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Narrow" color="#000000">Truth or Dare
(Zorn)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Narrow" color="#000000">Spagetti & Cheese
(Morricone)<br>
The Mystery song (Ellington)<br>
Funky Stuff (Larry Davis)<br>
You Only Live Twice (Barry)<br>
A Night In Tunisia (Ellington)<br>
Rosemary's Baby (K.Komeda)<br>
The List of Adrian Messenger (Goldsmith)<br>
The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin)<br>
Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (from Thunderball)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Narrow" color="#000000">Kaila (?)<br>
Graveyard Of The Brotherhood (?)<br>
Baby Doll (Ellington)<br>
Rapid Shave (Shirley Scott)<br>
Sunset Surfer (Zorn)<br>
Jezebel (?)<br>
The Bad & The Beautiful (?)<br>
Lying on the Sofa of Life (DNA)<br>
The Way It Feels (Patton)<br>
The Poverty theme (Morricone)<br>
The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin)<br>
Devils Island (Shorter)<br>
Mary T (?)<br>
Milano Odea (Morricone)<br>
Ride On A Dolphin (Smith)<br>
Ski Scene(From Thunderball)<br>
Our Man Flint (Goldsmith)</font></div>
</body>
</html>
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:56:34 -0400
From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com>
Subject: RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C129C2.FAC0AD10
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello,
....I will agree that I prefer to listen to Zorns 80's output to =
his 90's/current stuff, but I suspect in my case this has as much to do =
with my first hearing his early stuff first, at the tail end of the =
80's. Most of the newer releases that I've heard lack the urgency and =
power that were present on something like Spy vs. Spy. An exception to =
this would be Masada, but that's a whole other ball of wax. 10+ discs =
doesn't sit well with me, because I can't afford to be a completist (not =
unless I bought only Zorn's music, and that will never happen), and it =
stunned me to read posts regarding the Hermetic Theatre which stated how =
many people were once completists, but no longer. I haven't heard a Zorn =
disc that came in any proximity to the word bad, but some of what I've =
heard is just "there", and the amount of Masada can't be called anything =
but self-indulgent (but not the group's music). "...East Asian Bar =
Bands" is great, though.=20
....what would I like to see Zorn do next? Well, I'd like to see =
him reexamine some old territory in a new way. How a bout a new duo =
album with Chadbourne, but this time in a jazz mode, maybe tackling the =
duo record that Jim Hall and Ornette never recorded. He's released =
discs inspired by writers such as Genet and Duras, but I'd like to hear =
some music inspired by the poets that he likes. Someone posted a good =
while back that Zorn was interested in the Language Poets-- some new =
work involving the writing of these poets would be welcome by me. But =
maybe not by the non-poetry fans on the list.
....boy, it's grand that the list is back up and running again. =
Some great recent art experiences to come my way have included: Roland =
Kirk "Live in Copenhagen" LP
"Cockfighter" DVD dir. Monte Hellman
Railroad Jerk "Third Rail" CD
August Harper's Magazine w/ Robert Coover short story & George Plimpton =
article on Terry Southern
Sound Collector 6 magazine & CD
"Postmodern American Poetry" ed. Paul Hoover
Washboard Sam w/ Big Bill Broonzy and Memphis Slim "Feeling Lowdown" LP
I remain....
Joseph
NP: Marion Brown Quartet CD (ESP Disk)
NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" (about 100 pgs to go...totally =
recommended!)
- ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C129C2.FAC0AD10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> ....I will =
agree that I=20
prefer to listen to Zorns 80's output to his 90's/current stuff, but I =
suspect=20
in my case this has as much to do with my first hearing his early stuff =
first,=20
at the tail end of the 80's. Most of the newer releases that I've heard =
lack the=20
urgency and power that were present on something like Spy vs. =
Spy. An=20
exception to this would be Masada, but that's a whole other ball of wax. =
10+=20
discs doesn't sit well with me, because I can't afford to be a =
completist (not=20
unless I bought only Zorn's music, and that will never happen), and it =
stunned=20
me to read posts regarding the Hermetic Theatre which stated how many =
people=20
were once completists, but no longer. I haven't heard a Zorn disc that =
came in=20
any proximity to the word bad, but some of what I've heard is=20
just "there", and the amount of Masada can't be called anything but =
self-indulgent (but not the group's music). "...East Asian Bar Bands" is =
great,=20
though. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> ....what would =
I like to=20
see Zorn do next? Well, I'd like to see him reexamine some old territory =
in a=20
new way. How a bout a new duo album with Chadbourne, but this =
time in a=20
jazz mode, maybe tackling the duo record that Jim Hall and Ornette =
never=20
recorded. </FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He's released discs =
inspired by=20
writers such as Genet and Duras, but I'd like to hear some music =
inspired by the=20
poets that he likes. Someone posted a good while back that Zorn was =
interested=20
in the Language Poets-- some new work involving the writing of these =
poets would=20
be welcome by me. But maybe not by the non-poetry fans on the =
list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> ....boy, =
it's grand=20
that the list is back up and running again. Some great recent art =
experiences to=20
come my way have included: Roland Kirk "Live in Copenhagen" =
LP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Cockfighter" DVD dir. Monte =
Hellman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Railroad Jerk "Third Rail" =
CD</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>August Harper's Magazine w/ Robert =
Coover short=20
story & George Plimpton article on Terry Southern</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sound Collector 6 magazine & =
CD</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Postmodern American Poetry" ed. Paul=20
Hoover</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Washboard Sam w/ Big Bill Broonzy and =
Memphis Slim=20
"Feeling Lowdown" LP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I remain....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joseph</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NP: Marion Brown Quartet CD (ESP =
Disk)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" =
(about 100=20
pgs to go...totally recommended!)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #533
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