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Zorn List Digest         Friday, June 1 2001         Volume 03 : Number 454



In this issue:
-
       duplex planet
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       Re: Braxton and Horwitz
       Re: New Trends in East Asian Bar Bands
       Eugene Chadbourne
       re: cd-r punk reissue label
       Re: New Trends in East Asian Bar Bands
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       Speech and music (was Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452)
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       RE: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief
       Re: Painkiller 2xCD set on Subharmonic
       Re: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452
       Re: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief
       freejazz documentairy
       [transmissions] tickets now available, other updates (fwd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:18:23
From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: duplex planet

>Is anyone besides me aware of the DUPLEX PLANET HOUR disc? David
> >Greenberger reading various quotes and anecdotes fr his DUPLEX PLANET
> >magazine, with music by Terry Adams (and a band of Terry, and Sun Ra
> >horns Tyrone Hill >& Dave Gordon)? It's by far my favorite record in
> >this format.  The >text could
>have worked without the music and vice versa, but they're just stunning
>together.

I haven't heard this; maybe I should. I have the Talent Show CD on ArfARf
and that insane Jack Mudurian 129-part, 45-minute a cappella "medley," which
I know are related to Duplex Planet or the nursing home that inspired it ...
Isn't that Kramer CD on Tzadik, "Let Me Tell You Something About Art,"
related to this stuff somehow?

Second potentially obtuse post of the day ...

wy


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:56:10 -0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

>From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
>
>The failures, I think, are
>where the spoken word exists as a separate entity which could exist on its
>own as a primary focus, to which music or sound is added later.

I'm not sure I agree.  I liked Hashisheen, T.A.Z by Hakim Bey, and Paul
Bowles' Baptism of Solitude.  All could have existed on their own without
the musical backdrop, but I felt the music worked well with language and
voices of the readers, particularly Bey.

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:07:02 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

>> From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
>>
>> The failures, I think, are
>> where the spoken word exists as a separate entity which could exist on its
>> own as a primary focus, to which music or sound is added later.
>
> I'm not sure I agree.  I liked Hashisheen, T.A.Z by Hakim Bey, and Paul
> Bowles' Baptism of Solitude.  All could have existed on their own without
> the musical backdrop, but I felt the music worked well with language and
> voices of the readers, particularly Bey.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
> -
>
I think the whole question is one of balance.  The spoken part should be
able to stand alone, and the music should act as an extension and not so
much as glorified sonic parsely.

skip h

np: dionne warwick bacharach lps


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:12:24 -0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

>From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>

>I think the whole question is one of balance.  The spoken part should be
>able to stand alone, and the music should act as an extension and not so
>much as glorified sonic parsely.

Surely though parsley can be more than a simple decorative garnish, and if
it is a decorative garnish at times, isn't it also at the same time more
than simply that? :-)

NP: "Nefertiti" "The Complete Columbia Recordings 1965-68" Miles Davis
Quintet
NR: Felix Guattari, "Chaosophy"
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:23:52 -0500
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton and Horwitz

>Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:45:34 -0400
>From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Braxton and Horwitz... the woe continues...
>
>I think that ultimately only Cadence will be able to sort this one out...
>
>Steve Smith
>[e-mail]
>

This is certainly not the first, and unlikely to be the last Braxton
recording for which the track listings are not correct.

(Does anyone have the "real" running order of the LP box for four
orchestras, I can't find mine after this reminded me to look for
that.)
- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:23:52 -0500
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Trends in East Asian Bar Bands

>Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:49:02 -0400 (EDT)
>From: konrad <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief
>
>I second the praise for NTIABBAnds.  One thing i was surprised to find was
>that two of the texts (at least -- not sure of the second track in Korean)
>were translated away from their orignal English.  The other thing to note,
>of course, is that it's not improv.  THe Braxton disk sounds really really
>risky.
>
>I want to say though that in a way the words remain still a little bit NOT
>music, which is what charms me about it.
>
>konrad

The Myung Mi Kim text was also written in English originally.

&, for what it's worth, while the texts are not improvised, I think I
recall hearing from Wayne that the instrumental parts in these pieces
are some sort of game structure.
- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:48:56 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Eugene Chadbourne

- --part1_76.b18db1e.28482458_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have been told that Eugene Chadbourne has a live record (either formerly in
print or still in print) that was recorded at the Laurel Theater in
Knoxville, TN.  This is of significant interest to me primarily because I
live in TN and I have seen many shows at the Laurel Theater. It is amusing,
if nothing else, that he would record such a record in the typically folk
music dominated former church that is the Laurel Theater.
If anyone has any information on whether or not this record exists, how to
find a copy of it, or is willing to sell/trade their copy, please tell me.

thanks.

ben o.

- --part1_76.b18db1e.28482458_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I have been told that Eugene Chadbourne has a live record (either formerly in
<BR>print or still in print) that was recorded at the Laurel Theater in
<BR>Knoxville, TN.  This is of significant interest to me primarily because I
<BR>live in TN and I have seen many shows at the Laurel Theater. It is amusing,
<BR>if nothing else, that he would record such a record in the typically folk
<BR>music dominated former church that is the Laurel Theater.
<BR>If anyone has any information on whether or not this record exists, how to
<BR>find a copy of it, or is willing to sell/trade their copy, please tell me.
<BR>
<BR>thanks.
<BR>
<BR>ben o.</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_76.b18db1e.28482458_boundary--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:50:35 +0200
From: "Tal Goldman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: cd-r punk reissue label

 http://www.hyped2death.com

> > Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:55:26 -0400
> > From: [e-mail]
> > Subject: cd-r punk reissue label
> >
> > Does anybody know the name of a label that was doing CD-R reissues of
late
> 70s/early 80s punk and power pop?  They had two or three dozen releases,
all
> collecting seven-inches.  The releases were sold through Other Music;
> apparently there was also an article about them in Spin.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: konrad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Trends in East Asian Bar Bands

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Herb Levy wrote:

> &, for what it's worth, while the texts are not improvised, I think I
> recall hearing from Wayne that the instrumental parts in these pieces
> are some sort of game structure.

Ah.  Yes i can hear it that way, and that relieves me somewhat from
wondering how all of that could possibly have been notated.


konrad

^Z


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:15:15 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:07:02PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:

> I think the whole question is one of balance.  The spoken part should be
> able to stand alone, and the music should act as an extension and not so
> much as glorified sonic parsely.

Hmm... I know of and have done spoken/music works where the music and
spoken parts were inextricably intertwined, and while they worked well
together, each was lacking without the other. And perhaps that is as it
should be -- why combine them if either works alone? Ideally neither is
merely an extension of the other, but its necessary complement.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:41:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: konrad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Speech and music (was Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452)

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:07:02PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:
>
> > I think the whole question is one of balance.  The spoken part should be
> > able to stand alone, and the music should act as an extension and not so
> > much as glorified sonic parsely.
>
> Hmm... I know of and have done spoken/music works where the music and
> spoken parts were inextricably intertwined, and while they worked well
> together, each was lacking without the other. And perhaps that is as it
> should be -- why combine them if either works alone? Ideally neither is
> merely an extension of the other, but its necessary complement.

Another way i think of it is not that they are balanced, or that they are
complementary tracks (which are unified through composition, like
counterpoint), but because they are less than compatible on some level,
that the spoken text and the music create a "space" between them, and a
quality of dissonance is there, which can be musical, but has nothing to
do with traditional ideas about rhythm, melody or harmony.

Personally i'm fascinated by this form, but i concede it's not everyone's
cup of tea, and when it's bad there's not much to redeem it.


konrad


^Z


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:19:49 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:07:02PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:
>
>> I think the whole question is one of balance.  The spoken part should be
>> able to stand alone, and the music should act as an extension and not so
>> much as glorified sonic parsely.
>
> Hmm... I know of and have done spoken/music works where the music and
> spoken parts were inextricably intertwined, and while they worked well
> together, each was lacking without the other. And perhaps that is as it
> should be -- why combine them if either works alone? Ideally neither is
> merely an extension of the other, but its necessary complement.

To me, this is like saying if a piece of music is good, don't dance to it.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:09:50 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 05:19:49PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:
>
>
> > On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:07:02PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:
> >
> >> I think the whole question is one of balance.  The spoken part should be
> >> able to stand alone, and the music should act as an extension and not so
> >> much as glorified sonic parsely.
> >
> > Hmm... I know of and have done spoken/music works where the music and
> > spoken parts were inextricably intertwined, and while they worked well
> > together, each was lacking without the other. And perhaps that is as it
> > should be -- why combine them if either works alone? Ideally neither is
> > merely an extension of the other, but its necessary complement.
>
> To me, this is like saying if a piece of music is good, don't dance to it.

If you pay attention to contemporary dance music as played in the clubs
(such as the currently-defunct-as-far-as-I-know Twilo), much of it is
specifically tailored to go well with dance, and doesn't work nearly as
well outside the dance framework. And certainly the dance without the
music seems, well, odd.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:10:21 -0400
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief

Not yet... but I've only given that one spin as well.

Now, the Ives/Elliott Carter disc on Sony... THAT I liked.  And I'm down
with a lot of the Soilwork disc as well.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of William York

P.S. Do you like the new Candiria?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 02:18:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Painkiller 2xCD set on Subharmonic

Thanks to all the responses.  It's on the way...

- --
=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 02:18:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief

In a message dated 5/31/01 3:12:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< As a rule, I think albums with spoken word set to music are a sham, and
 should be banished. >>

My Ken Nordine albums *are* the exception, I say!

- --
=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:24:07 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #452

> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 05:19:49PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:07:02PM -0700, Skip Heller wrote:

>>
>> To me, this is like saying if a piece of music is good, don't dance to it.
>
> If you pay attention to contemporary dance music as played in the clubs
> (such as the currently-defunct-as-far-as-I-know Twilo), much of it is
> specifically tailored to go well with dance, and doesn't work nearly as
> well outside the dance framework. And certainly the dance without the
> music seems, well, odd.

I meant something more like James Brown or Tower Of Power, musically.  And
I've never seen someone dance in silence, so I can't say anything about
that.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:25:33 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton and Horwitz... added grief

> In a message dated 5/31/01 3:12:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << As a rule, I think albums with spoken word set to music are a sham, and
> should be banished. >>
>
> My Ken Nordine albums *are* the exception, I say!

Actually, I've recorded with Ken.  I had my tongue firmly in my cheek on
that one.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:27:53 +0200
From: Jeroen de Boer <[e-mail]>
Subject: freejazz documentairy

Found it on allaboutjazz:

- ---------------------
New Documentary on Free Jazz
2001-05-30


I am pleased to announce the completion of the documentary Inside Out In The
Open. It's an hour-long exploration into the music known as free jazz. I
finished the "fine-tuning" last week with a wonderful editor/technician in
Columbus, Ohio, so it now sounds and looks great.

This has been a project over 3 years in the making and will be an important
contribution to the discussion of the history of jazz music, especially in
light of the January PBS broadcast of Jazz by Ken Burns and the criticisms
of that series.

Inside Out In The Open integrates its subject matter into the form of the
documentary itself, creating a musically-driven examination of this music
through the words and performances of over 20 musicians. It is filled with
insights and surprises. It also gives recognition to important musicians who
were completely left out of the PBS/Burns program. This list includes Sun
Ra, Albert Ayler, Eric Dolphy, and the later work of John Coltrane.

Interviews with: Marion Brown, Baikida Carroll, Daniel Carter, Burton
Greene, Susie Ibarra, Joseph Jarman, William Parker, Matt Shipp, Roswell
Rudd, Alan Silva and John Tchicai. Performances by: Peter Brotzman, Denis
Charles, Glenn Spearman, In Order to Survive, Other Dimensions in Music, and
many of those interviewed.

Inside Out In The Open is my first major documentary and the first of two
examinations of this music. A second documentary focusing on the New York
Art Quartet is in production. The Art Quartet existed for only a year in
1964-65, but made a major contribution to the development of music. In 1999
they reconvened for a 35-year reunion. That documentary will be about that
group, the reunion, the community of musicians and artists in the early 60s,
and a portrait of these artists to the present.

A premiere showing of Inside Out In The Open is being planned for New York
City in the near future. I will also be entering it in film festivals and
having it shown in other non-commercial venues.

I will be sending out updates and further information on the details and
life of this new work. Feel free to ask questions if you're curious or need
more information. Reply to me at: [e-mail]

Thank You,
Alan Roth
- --------------


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeroen de Boer
content director Cyberslag Content Providing
Damsterdiep 15  9711SG Groningen    The Netherlands

t   [phone]
m   [phone]
f   [phone]
[e-mail]

www.cyberslag.nl
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 03:48:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ethan Clauset <[e-mail]>
Subject: [transmissions] tickets now available, other updates (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:17:27 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: [transmissions] tickets now available, other updates

transmissions site  www.transmit.org



+ artist updates
+ ticket availability
+ rafael toral US tour 2001
+ recent site updates

________________________
+ artist updates
________________________

_ we're thrilled to announce that noriko tujiko (toyko, japan)
will be joining us for trans oo4. she will be performing on
august 11th, at rednofive. further information is available
on-site or from http://www.mego.at/noriko.html

_ sadly, due to tour rescheduling and health-related issues,
respectively, mira calix and vladislav delay _will not_ be
performing at this year's festival.

________________________
+ ticket availability.
________________________

we are very pleased to announce that tickets are
_now available_  on-site, and directly through
http://www.skimo.com.  many thanks to s://kimo
for making it happen!

we are offering an all inclusive week-long pass
which includes seven nights of performances,
film/video screenings, and other festival events.

we strongly encourage (and very much appreciate)
early ticket purchases, as we are only able to offer a
limited number of full-passes and tickets to individual
events due to varying venue capacities.  we have also
been informed that hotel/motel accommodations during
the week of August 6-12th will be  VERY limited
as well due to an international housewares convention.

* so buy your tickets and make reservations early*

tickets for opening evening [august 6th]
(with performances by ben vida and carl stone)
will be available shortly, but  the following tickets are
now currently on sale at ::

[netscape users]           http://www.skimo.com/ie/nr/nrnet.html
[internetexplorer users]   http://www.skimo.com/ie/nr/nrie.html


______________________________________
ALL PRICES _INCLUDE_ PROCESSING/HANDLING FEES
______________________________________

Transmissions oo4 August 6-12, Chicago, IL.
ADVANCE FULL WEEK PASSES : $80

Trans oo4 is offering an all-inclusive Full Festival Week-long Pass which
includes entry to all performances, film/video screenings, installations,
and related events.
______________

AUGUST 8TH: WEDNESDAY: $13.50
Location:: Hothouse, Chicago, Begins 8pm.

Spacious evening featuring performances by:: Helen Mirra [Chicago],
Steve Roden [Los Angeles], Michael Schumacher [New York].

______________

AUGUST 9TH: THURSDAY: $13.50
Location:: Subterranean, Chicago, Begins 9pm.

Live audio and video performances by : Janek Schaefer [London],
Vote Robot [Canada], Randall Jones [Seattle, WA],
+ DJs Kevin Drumm/Pita [Chicago/Austria].

______________

AUGUST 10TH: FRIDAY:  $16.50
Location :: Hothouse, Chicago, Begins 9pm.

Textured microsound performances by: Loren Chasse [San Francisco],
Jason Kahn [Zurich], Richard Chartier [Washington, DC], Hecker
[Austria], Pita [Austria].

______________

AUGUST 11TH: SATURDAY: $28
Location :: RedNo5/5th Floor, Chicago, Begins 9pm.

Lengthy sets and collaborations  :: Sutekh [San Francisco],
Kit Clayton [San Francisco], Tujiko Noriko [Toyko, Japan], Dettinger
[Germany], Monolake [Germany].

______________

**please note: the events listed above are those
for which we are currently offering tickets; this is not a
comprehensive documentation of festival events.  please
refer to the schedule for a complete detailing of all related
festival programs**


________________________
+ rafael toral us tour 2001
________________________

as part of this year's festival pre-series,
rafael toral will be performing at

trans oo3.7 : :
tonic : 107 norfolk street, new york, ny
midnight show
. rafael toral :: w/ special guests
homepage.mac.com/helderluis/rt/

trans oo3.7b : :
6odum : 2116  w chicago ave.  chicago, il
10pm
. rafael toral ::
homepage.mac.com/helderluis/rt/

.ian nagoski ::
www.redroom.org/individuals/nagoski/

.ian epps ::
www.deadceo.com

________________________
+ recent site updates
________________________

- -we're in the process of adding
individual artist bio pages with
photos, site links, and real audio files.
you can access these through the
performers page in the trans oo4 section.

- -we've also added realvideo of the following artists from transoo3:
+ john fahey
+ alan licht
+ hrvatski
+ pita
+ marcus schmickler

- -
current festival-related articles from the Wire and the Chicago
Tribune have been added to the site.

- ------------------------


thank you for the support, and please let us know if you
have any questions.



fourth annual transmissions festival
http://transmit.org  |  [e-mail]
po box 257213 chicago il 60625  u s a
____________ _ __ _ _  _  _  _ _ _







- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #454
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