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Zorn List Digest         Tuesday, May 15 2001         Volume 03 : Number 426



In this issue:
-
       Re: Death of a Piano (LONG SF Bay Area show review)
       Oswald CD Set
       toy music
       Re: Oswald CD Set
       Peter Stubley!
       Re: Oswald CD Set
       Re: Oswald CD Set
       toy instruments
       Re: Death of a Toy Piano ?
       toy instr/Bastien
       Re: toy music
       Re: more fag stuff
       (no subject)
       Toy Piano
       Re: Toy Piano

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:16:19
From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Death of a Piano (LONG SF Bay Area show review)

>This was the spirit of Charles Ives at work here in Oakland.

Man, looks like I should have gone to this. I saw him conduct an orchestra
of twelve or so guitarists "playing" their guitars with sex toys (just
making the pickups, uh, "vibrate" -- pun not intended but kind of
unavoidable). Sounds like he was using the same kinds of methods, with the
cue cards and all. Unfortunately that whole number was pretty tedious and I
had to get out after about 30 minutes. Humming pickups do have their
limitations.

>FYI Sleepytime Gorilla Museum is a band that Moe! is in as the
>percussionist, and they will be touring the country i think in June, so
>keep an eye out for them.  They are a five piece band, kind of a
>Frith/Crimson/Gabriel (for the theatrical aspect) inflected band, for >lack
>of a better description, which is fronted by Nils Frykdahl (Idiot
> >Flesh/Charming Hostess) and Carla Kihlstedt (Tin Hat Trio).

Oddly, I have seen them three times and didn't realize he was the
percussionist. I didn't make the King Crimson connection til my friend, who
was really drunk or something, said "This is just like 'Red'!" But this is
more abrasive and heavier, too, with those metal percussion thingies or
whatever they have going. Not sure when the CD is coming out; I asked Dan
Rathbun (guy who produced last two or so Uz Jsme Doma CDs, his double
reverse mohawk is tough to miss) when it would be out at a concert last week
and he verbally scolded me.... Soon, though, I would guess.

WY


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:18:47 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Oswald CD Set

I was just curious if anyone else on the list had ordered the Oswald CD set
from Seeland and if it has arrived or not yet.  I ordered it close to a
month ago, and was just curious if this was the norm when ordering from
Negativmailorderland or if I should be concerned.

Thanks for any info.



Craig M. Rath
H: [e-mail]
W: [e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:23:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pierre=20Toussaint?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: toy music

Hi,
there's a new release by Monstre, "sucre3", that uses
only toy instruments and human sounds. An mp3 is
available. See the release section at
http://www.alien8recordings.com
Pierre



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:22:56 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Oswald CD Set

At 06:18 PM 5/14/01 -0500, Craig Rath wrote:
>I was just curious if anyone else on the list had ordered the Oswald CD set
>from Seeland and if it has arrived or not yet.  I ordered it close to a
>month ago, and was just curious if this was the norm when ordering from
>Negativmailorderland or if I should be concerned.

I ordered mine last week and it arrived in two or three days.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:09:10 -0500
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Peter Stubley!

Since I was asking about the spelling of last names, it's probably
appropriate that I misnamed Peter Stubley who operates the European
Free Improvisation Web site out of the University of Sheffield. Oh
well.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:28:33 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Oswald CD Set

At 07:22 PM 5/14/01 -0400, Caleb T. Deupree wrote:
>At 06:18 PM 5/14/01 -0500, Craig Rath wrote:
>>I was just curious if anyone else on the list had ordered the Oswald CD set
>>from Seeland and if it has arrived or not yet.  I ordered it close to a
>>month ago, and was just curious if this was the norm when ordering from
>>Negativmailorderland or if I should be concerned.
>
>I ordered mine last week and it arrived in two or three days.

Crap.  Looks like my order might be lost in the mail.  Does anyone know of
any phone number or other way of actually contacting someone there other
than the snail-mail address on the site?

Thanks again.



Craig M. Rath
H: [e-mail]
W: [e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 20:20:38 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Oswald CD Set

At 06:28 PM 5/14/01 -0500, Craig Rath wrote:
>
>Crap.  Looks like my order might be lost in the mail.  Does anyone know of
>any phone number or other way of actually contacting someone there other
>than the snail-mail address on the site?

I ordered from the Mordam records website, http://www.mordamrecords.com.
This was based on a link from someone on the plunderphonics list, and I
can't seem to find the record listed on their site tonight, so you may have
to browse through the plunderphonics archives to get a good URL.  The
plunderphonics list is one of the www.yahoogroups.com.

Although I'm checking out the negativland site, and they say that it's not
available by credit card (?).  It was when I got it, so I'm not quite sure
what to tell you except keep trying, it's a great release, and not the same
as the previous releases.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:19:22 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: toy instruments

<< Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy
instruments? >>

the most popular group, now defunct, is Pianosaurus.
fun stuff, i believe on rounder records, and prolly o/p.
one of their cuts made it to woody allen's 'new york stories'
film and its soundtrack CD.
regards
steve koenig
n.p.: lethe voice festival sampler <www.lethe-voice.com/kk>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:20:34 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Death of a Toy Piano ?

>From: [e-mail]

>Is "homemade instruments" synonymous with "toy instruments?"

For what it is worth, Pink Floyd started recording an album in the early
'70s (in collaboration with Ron Geesin) that used only  homemade and toy
instruments and domestic appliances as sound sources. It was eventually
abandoned in favour of  a new project entitled  'Dark Side Of The Moon'...

Token Zorn content: Anyone listen to the Dave Douglas Mosaic Sextet reissue?
Pretty fascinating stuff, almost in a prog rock vein a la Magma or Henry
Cow, with Mark Feldman on violin and Michael Rabinowitz playing electric(!)
bassoon...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:26:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: toy instr/Bastien

In a message dated 5/14/01 3:56:58 PM,=20
[e-mail] writes:

<< You've also this French guy, Pierre Bastien, who builds his own Mecanium
ensembles creating a sorts of "Musique Mecanique". Don't know if you could
easily find his recordings but he has worked with Pascal Comelade, if that
helps.
Greetings,
Efr=E9n >>

hola efr=E9n,
you can get their stuff in the usa from anomalousredords.com
i also recommend het appollohus discs & CD with shelley hirsch
playing musical inventions by horst rickels.  one is a bicycle-type
thing connected to balloons.  great both in concert and on disc. =20
regards
steve koenig

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:38:24 -0400
From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: toy music

Hello,

>there's a new release by Monstre, "sucre3", that uses
>only toy instruments and human sounds. An mp3 is
>available. See the release section at
>http://www.alien8recordings.com

Monstre also has his own web site: http://www.multimania.com/monstre/

You can find some mp3s of his other projects (GoaGajah, ZOM-B, etc.) and his
previous albums.

Tschuss,

Mathieu


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:29:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: konrad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more fag stuff

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Jeton Ademaj wrote:
[double quotes are Steve Smith]
> >People can make such pointless speculations all day long, for all I >care,
> >but it doesn't tell us a damn thing about the music.  And the mixture of
> >ignorance and arrogance with which many of these theories are posited is
> >frankly embarassing, or should be, anyway.
>
> >Enough outta me.  But Jeton, your allusions to homophobia in the >exchange
> >between Bill and myself are off-base, and unwelcome.
>
> Steve, I commented on what you chose to post. Your pomo Seinfeld reference
> winks out "hey, ain't got nuttin against gays, but Dolphy n Mingus? C'mon,
> enuff's enuff!" (some may remember it's context in that particular episode--
> the unspoken rejoinder to "-not that there's anything wrong with that" was
> an implicit ", AS LONG AS IT'S NOT ME!!!"). I don't think any pc-police will
> be breaking down your door anytime soon, so you probably need not get bent
> out of shape that I noticed your obviously freudian slip. and as for
> hostility:

[continuing quote of Steve snipped]

I think you are accusing someone of something and he's denying it.  That
puts him on the defensive.  He defended himself by stating his case and
you basically told him that defending yourself is tantamount to admitting
guilt by innuendo, calling his remarks "hostile."  It seems like your
conclusions are your assumptions, which is also a way of saying that you
perceive something.  But you have to convince others of it with more than
your own conviction.   I can see that you can hear a subtle mockery in
someone's diction or dismissive tone, but frankly, appointing yourself
judge jury and hangman is not going to get him to see it.

> So basically most people's answer has been "it's not about the sex, mannn"
> and/or "whatever it was *really* about is subjective and/or unknowable". I
> find both positions about one-quarter correct because sex is to a lesser or
> greater extant a plainly universal concern, moreso than race/gender/class,
> and because the all growth of knowledge is based on the implicit or explicit
> faith that reality is to some extant knowable.

I think you are incorrect about sexuality being some degree more plainly
universal, and therefore relevant to music in all its manifestations.
Everyone is subject to those oppressive aspects of our life because they
are internalized categories that we project as real, because everyone
participates in all of them all the time.  If you feel the acuteness of a
particular oppression it doesn't mean that someone else doesn't have a
similar feeling about their, say, poverty, or, say, a general subtle
patriarchal atmosphere in their chosen career.

I suppose my comment falls into your 'subjective/unknowable' category.
You say 'whatever it was *really*' as if *really* could be something other
than what we make it about.  That's EXACTLY what the argument is here.
What can the music possibly be _about_?  I mean, it _can_ be about things,
but what is the range of possibilities relative to a particular musician
and social context?

Moreover, i thought that i like others in this thread left the debate open
- -- no one said, "who cares," -- well maybe one person did.  Obviously you
care, and we're all talking about it because of that.

If someone says certain playing represents sublimated desires, my question
immediately is, i wonder if those are not sublimated, but EXACTLY the
desires they wished to express, i.e. they wanted to have that quality of
intensity of relationship, but without it being sexual.  I think it's too
much following the mistake of Freud to reduce every desire to a sexual
basis, because sexuality itself is often a tool for something else still
more desirable (in a situation) than sexual pleasure, for example power,
contact/union, protection, etc.  But i don't get the feeling that's the
kind of discussion you are interested in.

> That still doesn't answer the
> question of hostility- who cares if someone speculates about Dolphy n Mingus
> being hot for each other? History benefits from truth and truth benefits
> from inquiry, so the better question is, who loses when truth gets out? Or
> even when it gets mucked(?) with in some tiny context in some ivory tower
> somewhere? Who's afraid of the bigbadpomofemgay"'"'"'jazz'"'"'" scholar?

You're saying "why the hostility" but i have a hard time seeing people
being hostile _just_ because they disagree -- and yes i subsume the tone
into mocking an opponent, not homophobia.  I'm not even saying that when
push comes to shove a lot of 'reasonable' people wouldn't go the route
you're suggesting (think Germany in the 30s or racism in US drug laws,
which i recently was hipped to), but on this list (and i may be wrong as a
newcomer) i don't see it so plain and simple, like you say.


konrad


^Z





- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 03:00:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (no subject)

CAPTAIN'S LOG: an udder nuggit
ANTWERP
10:45 Saturday, 05 August, 2000
=E2=80=A6=20
H woke me at 0200 (Friday 04, to be precise), just back from helping a frien=
d=20
move house. We talked and ate and drank and went to bed around 0400. Once up=
=20
again, this time in daylight, I got ready and went out to walk at a leisurel=
y=20
pace to meet H by noon at the Japanese restaurant at Ossenmarkt. I gathered=20
video shots along the way. We plumped for the new restaurant on the square=20
called, in English, The Unknown. It had been open only for a couple of days.=
=20
Signs of the 'vernissage' abounded, including many bouquets and outside two=20
striking pillars of double balloons, blue and white. They had to go back=20
soon. =E2=80=A6 The meal was excellent, elegantly served by a pleasant waitr=
ess in a=20
light space, well-wrapped chairs, no music and few customers. We hope it wil=
l=20
prosper. I paid by Visa, =E2=80=A6 at 13:59, till-time. I used the penultima=
te=20
possibility of tram travel with a ticket given to me by H and took a number=20
10 tram back home. Waiting at the tram stop named for Jezusstraat, I found o=
n=20
the ground a little green 'Scary Monster' announcing '16 hourz in a free=20
elektronyk garden' on 05-08-00 with 'D-Jack/ Muffin/ Bogusman (live)/=20
Lysergic/ Noxious/ Capsule/ Jozef  Both/ Fastrez (live)/ Chyll-out kraked by=
=20
Daryl.'  Stapled to it are instructions how to get to it on the E19 autorout=
e=20
'twixt Brussels and Mons take the E42 towards Tournai and exit at 28 Blaton=20
'au lieu dit "Le Cercle Des Sorcieres"'; (www.synaptykalkonk.tsx.org).=20
[000811, attempted contact but it could not be 'open'ed.] On Carnot I was=20
surprised to see the young, pig-tailed, little goatee-bearded driver of this=
=20
tram employing a mobile phone in his left hand to his left ear while using=20
his right hand to block out noise from his right ear. It seemed to be a=20
practice in with which he was familiar. So, you see, monitoring at all level=
s=20
is a must where public safety is concerned. There, I caught up with my Log=20
Book entries before lying down for a while on the sofa. Around 1900 I used=20
the tram tickets last chance to get over by the Zuid Pool, again on the=20
number 10 tram. I walked by, where a small crowd was gathering outside to=20
closed doors. I walked on to the Hessian House and had a couple of bollekes=20
there, one in (with pills), one out on the sidewalk, looking at Engels. I=20
strolled back and it was past 2000. I encountered the regular German=20
contingent and chatted with one of them. Nickelsdorf had been a great succes=
s=20
by all accounts. I paid, descended to the bar and got a glass of white wine,=
=20
ascended and wandered around the foyer and auditorium. I saw a few familiar=20
faces including Andre Goudbeek and Peter The Bass with whom I exchanged=20
greetings. H turned up. We took up our position on the back row, right end=20
(seen from the performance area). Mr Van Hove made his usual long Flemish=20
introduction then pianist, Augusti Fernandez, of Barcelona - recently enjoye=
d=20
by H and I in Glasgow - did a solo set. Our black friend, =E2=80=A6had, by c=
hance,=20
come to sit on the steps before us - it was a full house, about 150 people.=20
We chatted with him in the interval, mainly on his Clifford Thornton project=
.=20
H got me a wine. Next we had Lovens and Metha. =E2=80=A6 'Lines' rounded thi=
ngs off=E2=80=A6=20
After it, I spoke briefly with Phil Wachsmann=E2=80=A6 Before leaving the th=
eatre, I=20
purchased - as a kind of act of solidarity with 'Lowlands', the label and=20
distribution service located in Antwerp - their last copy =E2=80=A6 of a boo=
k in=20
Italian and English, 'Itinerari Oltri Il Suono'/ John Zorn. It comes complet=
e=20
with a CD (Eugene Chadbourne/ John ZORN, 1977, 1981). This was published in=20
1998 by 'materiali sonori edizioni musicali' in Italy. The package is=20
shrink-wrapped and I think I might leave it that way=E2=80=A6!* H and I took=
 off for=20
the ancient pub round the corner, 'Limiting the Risk'! We had a couple of=20
'bollekes' each and a snack. We left there at about 0150=E2=80=A6=20
*To date, still the case: any enlightening words for me?
Best regards
Roger Parry

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:13:42 +0200
From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Toy Piano

Regarding the toy piano (and toy instruments) discussion, I think the
following have not been named yet:

* Margaret Leng Tan plays toy piano as well as regular piano, I know she's
made a couple of records on her own. Recently, she plays a toy Piano piece on
John Cage's "The Seasons", recently published by ECM.

* Dragibus are a French duo that started by playing kids song on toy
instruments (see their first CD, "Barbapoux", on Popo Classic/Saravah). They
have more original material on their second CD, "Papriko" (on Uplink Records,
available as a Japanese import), but still use a lot of toy instruments (they
also have great guests and a few crazy turntable pieces!)

* David Fenech recently released his first CD, "Grand Huit", on the French
label Tout l'Univers, and it features a lot of toy piano and other small
instruments.

Julien

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 06:22:54 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Toy Piano

In a message dated 15/05/01 11:17:45 GMT Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Regarding the toy piano (and toy instruments) >>
when toys finally pale, try Eric Boeren's quartet CD release, JOY of a TOY
(the retrospection being - of course - OCanic!)
Best regards
Roger Parry

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #426
*******************************


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