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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, March 20 2001        Volume 03 : Number 344



In this issue:
-
       Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
       Re: wynton's views
       Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
       RE: Dave Douglas questions
       Re: opprobrium
       Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
       Fwd: the gift
       new fanotmas
       Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
       Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
       Passage To Hades
       Re: Trip to Hell
       Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...
       Re: opprobrium
       New Music in RealAudio
       Re: the gift
       Re: Dave Douglas questions
       Re: ornette
       young philadelphians
       Re: young philadelphians

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:04:38 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...

I found one of the articles I was talking about, it is kind of a collection
of a lot of his thoughts on jazz, critics, etc, with a focus on the Ken
Burns thing... http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/arti1200_15.htm

> I read an interview with him in the January Time Out (London) which I no
> longer have where, to his credit, he appeared less like a nazi and more
like
> just a whiner. He made a comment to the effect of: I have no problem with
> those cats doing their thing down there in the village, but jazz has not
> always been just about innovation--there's a strong aspect of
traditionalism
> to it, and it's a shame if people are too strongly for/opposed to one or
the
> other. (His thought, not mine.)
>
> Maybe he's just reactionary and tracks-covering, but at least he's not
> defacing Miles anymore. The REAL issue stands to be that to many people
(and
> most of the people with the $$ to support the music), he IS jazz right
now.
>
> Wish I could find the article.
>
> Ryan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:31:32 -0500
From: Nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wynton's views

"thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> No, you're wrong! They are up Stanley Crouch's ass...

you laugh--crouch's book has a pretty nasty fisting
fantasy in it... (no kidding)

but seriously, simon weil did a short little thing
on wynton & J@LC for AAJ, and it's interesting
reading:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/articles/arti1200_15.htm

n

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:01:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...

> > They are right next to his head,
> > somewhere up his ass.

Ideology is fun, but to be perfectly helpful:
It's best to develop an opinion if you take it from
the horse's mouth, as it were, not its ass.  I would
find a copy of MAJESTY OF THE BLUES and listen to the
spoken word recitation by Albert Murray or Stan Crouch
(or neither?? cannot remember, and do not have
record), then immediately go read the liner notes of
the 3 volume Thick In the South (if memory serves...)
trilogy, especially UPTOWN RULER, and from there the
2cd LIVE AT BLUES ALLEY.  It might help to look at the
photo-documentary book on Wynton's septet tour
(SWEET... something or other).  Try reading his
introduction to the Ellington anthology (?) BEYOND
CATEGORY, perhaps; use library resources to find his
several interviews with jazz magazines over the years,
the most recent was the "counter-interview"
(artifically set up for controversy/sales) in Jazz
Times, I think; that was in the last half of 2000, I
think.  Certainly the infamous Downbeat interviews
from the Eighties and early Nineties.  And did you
miss his comments, constantly, throughout the Ken
Burns series?  I missed the original post and cannot
find it, so I hope this answers your questions.
There's an extremely instructive chapter or so in Gene
Lees' book CATS OF ANY COLOR (IMS...), which discusses
Wynton's impact in the Eighties, in the context of the
burgeoning neo-con movement.  That chapter was written
without much critical/chronological distance, quite in
the thick of things, but I remember finding it
interesting and balanced.

I'm surprised I even bothered to know that much.  Kind
of like an odd fugue to a lost oment of a
fundamentalist childhood.  Heh...

- ---s

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:43:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Dave Douglas questions

- --- Steve Smith <[e-mail]> wrote:
> [re: Douglas' Witness project] ...with a fairly
> potent political agenda that nonetheless does not
> overpower the music.

I'd be interested to know more about this, if anyone
happens to know (seems Steve might've mentioned this
in his review of that Witness show months back, but I
cannot remember).  On Douglas' home page I found this
(http://www.davedouglas.com/witness.html):
"Angered by a newspaper article on the rising fortunes
of weapon makers during the NATO war on Yugoslavia, I
decided to write music celebrating positive protest
against the misuse of money and power. Each piece is
inspired by and dedicated to activists and authors who
have creatively challenged the powers that be."

Did the politics come through in the music itself,
somehow; I gues I'm asking, how overt was the
poltiical intent or tinge?  I notice that Douglas
names Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky (libertarian?
yikes!), and Harold Pinter (better) in his list of
"heroes".

Kind of an abstract question, but I'm glad DD is a
little more subtle than, say, Rage Against the
Machine.  I guess the only problem with subtlety is,
um, specificity.

- ----s

NP: Henry Cow, CONCERTS, disc. 1, track 1

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:54:26 +0200
From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: opprobrium

> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: opprobrium
>
> www.info.net.nz/opprobrium
>
> there also. Nick Cain, the editor, writes most of it, and wow, is he
> opinionated. what's refreshing, though, even when he completely slams
> something (including an Erstwhile or two), he does it from a position of
> knowledge, as opposed to most critics.

And it's stylistically refreshing too - no "reviewerese" that I can see - I
wish more Cadence writers wrote like this.  I like it because it's not only
entertaining, but it seems to very easily never stray into the area of
self-importance - it never feels more than like one person's opinion.  Love
his comments about CIMP:

"...all packaged in generic label style with bad artwork and liner notes
painstakingly detailing the conditions of the recording session, and all of
wildly varying quality and interest levels. "

and:
"percussionist Lou Grassi - the number of CIMP releases he's contributed to
is best calculated sitting down and on an empty stomach [....] Grassi (who
is if anything too busy, and clutters the albums unduly by overplaying) ..."

Amen to that. :)

Thanks for the pointer.

vince


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:16:05 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...

skip heller

>> They are right next to his head,
>> somewhere up his ass.
>
> Thanks, I'll try there...
>
>
> -
>
It's obvious and easy to dismiss Wynton all the way and outright, but it's
also kind of foolish.  He's a credible musician, and, when he's not busy
trying to promote an adgenda, he 's a pretty credible teacher.  He's not
Satan or anything.

I understand, and, to a point (emphasize to a point), I understand that he
really feels stringly about something dear to him.  Yes, he's dogmatic and
often annoying.  But I wonder if anybody remembers the pre-Wynton days, when
you had few if any people who were compelling enough to the press to make
them pay attention to the cause of accoustic jazz.  A lot of guys were
making records that you couldn't give away.  He really did a public service
to make people more aware of things.  At this point, he reminds me of an old
soldier who doesn't know the war is over and won't shut up about the enemy.

Saying Wynton is a blowhard who often blurs the distinction between his own
opinions is like saying (the magician) Teller is quiet.  We know this
already and it's beyond overstating the obvious.  The fact is, at one time,
he did a lot of good just by being the squeaky wheel at a time when no
grea$e was being lavished on jazz.  Yeah, he has certainly outlived his
usefulness as a spokesmodel and has turned into a demagogue, but he's not
someone you should dismiss altogether (something I'm sure John Zorn, who has
praised Wynton's playing, who probably agree with).

best --
skip heller

np: Ramsey Lewis -- Greatest Hits (Argo)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:11:16 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: the gift

Further to Martin's requests, I'd also like to know
your thoughts on The Gift. I don't know if it's been
already released in the US.
The Dtmg Newsletter doesn't say too much about how it
actually sounds. It DOES mention the collaborators and
the listing left me breathless: Patton, Ribot, Dunn,
Saft, Baron, Baptista -I think, among others.

Talking about Patton, Fantomas are to release a
soundtrack covers album between May and June. His new
band, Peeping Tom is also to release by
October-November, if I'm not wrong. About the latter,
does anybody know what they're supposed to sound like?
I know that there are not specific members attached so
far.

Thanks,
EfrΘn




- --- Martin Wisckol <[e-mail]>
escribi≤: > Fecha: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:36:22 -0800
> Asunto: the gift
> Para: [e-mail]
> De: "Martin Wisckol"
> <[e-mail]>
>
> Any thoughts reflections reviews or ruminations on
> The Gift? Why should I
> buy it?
>
>
> -
>


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:48:11 -0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new fanotmas

>Talking about Patton, Fantomas are to release a
>soundtrack covers album between May and June.

Any news on which soundtracks they have chosen?
_________________________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:41:25 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...

Was it Jazziz or Jazz Times that ran the Marsalis/Zorn cover story?  You can
probably find back issues of both in a good library.  Or, more likely, online.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:57:58 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...

> Was it Jazziz or Jazz Times that ran the Marsalis/Zorn cover story?  You
can
> probably find back issues of both in a good library.  Or, more likely,
online.

Yep, just checked, it was Jazz Times, March 2000.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:33:43 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Passage To Hades

>Anyone heard the new collaboration between Evan Parker and Jah Wobble
>entitled 'Passage to Hades'?

I thought it was pretty good overall, & seemed to be a reasonable meeting
ground between their two very different styles, although the meeting
basically worked like this:

The basic FRAMEWORK for the pieces is Jah's more "groove/dub" base, with Evan
allowed to be, well, Evan on top.

That means that Jah controlled the overall "sound". Nothing here sounds like
Company or other "non idiomatic free improvisation".

Steve F.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:32:43 -0000
From: "Richard Gardner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Trip to Hell

___________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:28:18 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trip to Hell

Anyone heard the new collaboration between Evan Parker and Jah Wobble
entitled 'Passage to Hades'?

________________________________________________________

Yes I have had this for some time.

IMHO its pretty good but not what I expected.

Wobble is as he always is: big, big bass lines churning out over drums set
back into the mix.

Evan Parker on the other hand is distant and heavily processed playing North
African lines and supported by Clive Bell on various instruments.

The total effect is really very trippy. I felt it had a feel not unlike my
alltime favourite psychedelic album: Brian Jones presents the Master
Musicians of Joujouka. The sound of pipes through a phaser haze is the same.

Hope this helps.

Richard Gardner



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:58:23 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: wanting to find wynton's views on jazz...

In a message dated 3/20/01 8:00:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< > Was it Jazziz or Jazz Times that ran the Marsalis/Zorn cover story?  You
 can
 > probably find back issues of both in a good library.  Or, more likely,
 online.

 Yep, just checked, it was Jazz Times, March 2000. >>


That should give a good overview of both Marsalis and Zorn's working
aesthetic.  If memory serves, Zorn even complimented Wynton's playing!

Tom

______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:12:22 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: opprobrium

Let me second (or 3rd or 4th) the recommendation here.  Truly a great, inspiring
magazine.  Glad to see it's back after Nick's settled in to his new digs.

http://www.info.net.nz/opprobrium/

Best,
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:42:09 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Music in RealAudio

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music by Ellen Band, John Butcher, Michael Byron,  Tom
Heasley, Richard Lerman, Orlando Jacinto Garcia, and Giancarlo
Schiaffini.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program,
featuring music by Charles Amirkhanian, Wende Bartley, Eve Beglarian,
Jaap Blonk, Tim Brady, Paul Dutton, Sadie Harrison, Eduardo Reck
Miranda, Nick Williams, and Carlos Zingaro & Daunik Lazro is still
available in the Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb


- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:46:18 -0800 (PST)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the gift

On the second listen now, I am not sure I am into the scope of this
album. It follows the discription well, the zorn album for lovers.
There was also a bit saying it is "the album that naked city fans have
been waiting for." This I do not agree with. Zorn sports some more
compositions for ribot + cyro + saft. There are a few songs that break
out of the convention, but most stay very in. Did anyone hear about
zorn going on any antidepressants recently?

I could end up eating my critism after more listens, this is my first
impression.

Also zorn exibits more of his young asian girl fetish with the album
art. I had no problem with taboo and exile, now I am just not sure what
he is driving at, the pattern is too obvious.

- --- Martin Wisckol <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Any thoughts reflections reviews or ruminations on The Gift? Why
> should I
> buy it?
>
>
> -
>


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:11:35 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas questions

In a message dated 3/20/01 2:44:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> Chomsky

Slowly I turned...


David

np: Misha Feigin, Craig Hultgren, LaDonna Smith - They Are We Are

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:21:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ornette

In the notes for This Is My Music (1960), Ornette
writes:

"About myself. I'm thirty years of age and was born in
Texas - Fort Worth to be exact."

Ken Waxman
- --- Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:04:07PM -0500,
> [e-mail] wrote:
> > [e-mail] writes:
> > > happy birthday Ornette -70 today!
> >
> > hold on a second, according to the (generally
> unreliably) All Music Guide,
> > Ornette was born March 9, 1930.  According to
> David Wild
> > (http://home.att.net/~dawild/oc_biography.htm),
> Ornette was born March 19,
> > 1930.  And a jazz calendar I have has his birthday
> at March 9, 1931!?
> > ...well, whatever it is, it's the thought that
> counts, so: Happy 70 or 71st
> > (and maybe belated?) birthday Ornette!
>
> Didn't he have a big 70th birthday event last year?
>



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:25:36 +0100
From: "in.out" <[e-mail]>
Subject: young philadelphians

I read recently an interview of Jamaladeen Tacuma in Vibrations Magazine
where the Prime Time bass player talk about the Young Philadelphians project
to release a CD with this band. He said that all foour members (zorn, ribot,
weston & him) loved to push this band out with an album and maybe a tour.
Does anybody know about this band (how old is the project ?), or anybody so
them on stage and can tell me more about what is sounds like !
I would love this idea (Cd Release) to be follow. I am a big fan of the
Ryhtmic duo (jamaladeen/Weston).

respect.

mikl


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:47:16 -0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: young philadelphians

>I would love this idea (Cd Release) to be follow. I am a big fan of the
>Ryhtmic duo (jamaladeen/Weston).

Me as well, but they should dump Zorn. I don't enjoy his playing in this
band, it's just wailing. I think if you isolated his playing alone, you
couldn't tell it from what he would do with painkiller. I love painkiller,
but hearing him keep squeaking those high notes, just doesn't do it for me
in a funk band.
Sometimes it irritates me that Zorn plays exatly the same way, nomatter what
the other people he is playing with are doing.

Wouldn't a Westen, Ribot & Jamaladeen powertrio freefunk spazzout be the
coolest?


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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #344
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