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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #329
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, March 11 2001 Volume 03 : Number 329
In this issue:
-
Re: science, rationality, religion
FA: Bark Psychosis- Hex CD
baraka/cecil-bigotry
re: music history question
Re: baraka/cecil-bigotry
Coming Elvis Attractions
Re: Coming Elvis Attractions
New Zorn CD?
Aging Musicians
Re: baraka/cecil-bigotry
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
traditional Iranian music
Re: Coming Elvis Attractions
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
Re: traditional Iranian music
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
Re: News for Lulu
Re: News for Lulu
Re: News for Lulu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:38:05 EST
From: DvdBelkin@aol.com
Subject: Re: science, rationality, religion
In a message dated 3/11/01 12:26:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bashline@hotmail.com writes:
> I hold to my original point however.
And I to all of mine.
I don't think there's any point to further belaboring our disagreements.
We're just gonna have to be strong now and resist the pleas from everyone on
the zorn list to continue this...
D
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:57:54 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: FA: Bark Psychosis- Hex CD
Long out of print classic "post-rock/experimental" release that is compared
to Talk Talk's _Laughing Stock_ a/o _Spirit of Eden_ . This copy is still
sealed/never been played. Winner pays additional s/h charges- $3.50 U.S/$5.00
World. Payments(in $US): personal check (must clear before shipping), Money
order, PayPal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1415973288&r=0&t=0&show
Tutorial=0&ed=984898190&indexURL=0&rd=1
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 02:45:35 EST
From: Acousticlv@aol.com
Subject: baraka/cecil-bigotry
josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff) wrote:
<<.....The mention of Murray relates, to me, to the
political/religious discussion, specifically the album "Sunny's Time
Now" (CD reish on DIW). The recording includes a poem by LeRoi Jones
that is just scathing due to what I can only describe as "jew-baiting".
For me, it is deeply disturbing every time I listen to it, which was
probably part of Jones' intent, since his images from the piece are
certainly at times horrific. But the poem's ugliness is contrasted with
a hopeful ending (for me anyway). What are other people's opinions on
this piece? I've often wondered if it would be considered too
politically irresponsible for some>>
dear joseph,
thought i had it but it cant find it on my shelf. baraka indeed
had a racist and antisemitic phase...dunno how much remains but lately
he seems to write in good humor (both meanings). i was shocked,
truly, however, at the recent cecil taylor workshop concert, which was
not bad at all (i have biases so i'll not get into it) but cecil followed it
with a trio (krall and honsiger) who were fine, honsiger great, infact,
but a "poet" naima who declaimed a racist poem which didnt even
have the grace to fit the music or her own vocal abilities...
a throwback to nikki giovanni's anti-white phase...
haven't heard such drivel in decades...
and the sad thing is, anti-black racism and aftereffects
are still here of course, and is fine material for music and poetry,
but the 'white man and slaveboats' thing is played out if yr
not going to dig deeper that just that phrase.
if yr way past teenage and want to be a part of the history,
youve got to get deeper than that. cecil seemed to enjoy it.
was anyone else there who felt differently?
would truly like others p.o.v.
steve koenig n.p.: philip johnston: normology (koch)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:05:53 -0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: music history question
From: josephneff@webtv.net (Joseph Neff)
......The mention of Murray relates, to me, to the
political/religious discussion, specifically the album "Sunny's Time
Now" (CD reish on DIW). The recording includes a poem by LeRoi Jones
that is just scathing due to what I can only describe as "jew-baiting".
For me, it is deeply disturbing every time I listen to it, which was
probably part of Jones' intent, since his images from the piece are
certainly at times horrific. But the poem's ugliness is contrasted with
a hopeful ending (for me anyway). What are other people's opinions on
this piece? I've often wondered if it would be considered too
politically irresponsible for some.
- ---------
Yes it is disturbing. It's also over-aspirated and therefore not always
well-recorded. I'm not sure if Jones is flaming jews or mimicking the
realities of racism in reverse. (He also denigrates "wops.") I agree,
though, the ending suggests a more hopeful and positive note, mainly in
terms of the black community and the power of poetry. Though he criticizes
poetry quite strongly at the beginning.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:48:48 +0100
From: Tim Blechmann <TimBlechmann@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: baraka/cecil-bigotry
I've got a question on Amiri Baraka:
I've read something about a recording of Sun Ra featuring Baraka. Does
anyone know, which it is?
PEACE
Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:32:07 +0100 (MET)
From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Coming Elvis Attractions
Elvis=B4 next album is a collaboration with the Swedish soprano Anne Sofie
von Otter. Apparently very quiet, intimate duets recorded during the month
of October. And one of the instrumentalists is Benny Andersson of ABBA fame
(it was bound to happen....). All the best, Stephen
Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:33:47 EST
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Re: Coming Elvis Attractions
In a message dated 3/11/01 7:33:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20
stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se writes:
<< Elvis=B4 next album is a collaboration with the Swedish soprano Anne Sofi=
e
von Otter. Apparently very quiet, intimate duets recorded during the month
of October. And one of the instrumentalists is Benny Andersson of ABBA fame
(it was bound to happen....). All the best, Stephen
=20
Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden >>
While Elvis is heavily involved with this album -- producer, chief=20
songwriter, co-singer on a few tracks -- it lacks the punch of an official=20
Costello release. (Well, it's got about as much punch as his "Painted From=20
Memory" album.) =20
Here is the kneejerk reaction I sent to a friend a couple of days ago:
Listened to the promo for the first time yesterday and my initial reaction=20
is, to put it academically, YUCK. I asked myself the same question I asked=20
when first hearing "Painted From Memory": If ANYONE else were attached to=20
this album, would I like it? The answer is an emphatic no. (Well, maybe if=
=20
Tom Waits were attached I'd give it a chance, but no one else.) While I've=20
only listened once my reaction is obviously premature, but this is just the=20
kind of music I've always detested -- watered-down, middle of the road, safe=
,=20
bland, lifeless. I love ballads; I love Costello's voice (even his recent=20
dentist drill wails); but to my ears it sounds as if Elvis, after failing to=
=20
"rule the world" like Springsteen, Dylan, et al, is trying to crack the easy=
=20
listening market. =20
This is obviously where Costello's head and heart are at. I can't fault him=
=20
for following his vision. And being an obsessive completist fan I'll of=20
course buy the official album and go to see any accompanying tour. He sees=20
and hears something in this music that satisfies him. It just doesn't=20
satisfy ME, and my guess is that it won't thrill too many of his devoted=20
fans. =20
I think Anne Sophie has a beautiful voice. It may not be suited to this=20
material, but it is quite lovely. (Lovely?) =20
The arrangments and production that kill the album. PFM contained a handful=
=20
of terrific songs as evidenced by the Lonely World Tour, but the album itsel=
f=20
suffers from overproduction and syrupy arrangements. For the past three=20
years I've been blaming these atrocities on Bacharach. Now after hearing=20
"From the Stars" I'm not so sure it was all Bacharach's fault. =20
Wishing Elvis would release the King of America demos as an offical album,
Tom
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:37:16 -0000
From: "Alastair Wilson" <wilsonah@hotmail.com>
Subject: New Zorn CD?
Checking prices on Amazon, I came across this, which doesn't appear to be on
the Tzadik site:
Love Madness and Mysticism
J. Zorn
Our Price: ú11.99
This item will be released on 23 April, 2001. You may order it now and we
will ship it to you when it arrives.
Audio CD (23 April, 2001)
Number of Discs: 1
Label: Tzadik;
ASIN: B00005A8F2
Catalogue Number: TZA7065
Track Listings
1. Le Momo
2. Untitled
3. Amour Fou
Anybody know more about this??
Alastair
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:55:30 -0500
From: "&c." <parksplace@hotmail.com>
Subject: Aging Musicians
I learned in Psych class about what is considered the age of mastery. This
occurs sometime in the 40s. This is when a person is at the peak of their
skill, but not creativity. This peak is said to be in the 30s. I don't
think this applies to many musicians. Any one agree/disagree?
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:37:36 -0800
From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: baraka/cecil-bigotry
Tim Blechmann wrote:
>=20
> I've read something about a recording of Sun Ra featuring Baraka. Does
> anyone know, which it is?
_A Black Mass_, reissued about a year & a half ago.
- --=20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -
Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.co=
m
"It's no bed of roses, let me tell you, being a mutant."
-- Warren Dearde=
n
np: Ganelin/Tarasov/Chekasin, _Poi Segu=E9_
nr: Jalal Toufic, _Over-Sensitivity_
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:15:49 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
I wish we could set up a discussion between the mature
Brian Olewnick and the infantile Anthony "Ole[St.]Nick"
Braxton.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:29:27 -0500
From: "Nirav Soni" <nirav@ink19.com>
Subject: traditional Iranian music
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but, knowing the erudition
of zornlisters (zorn-agains?) it may just be. I recently heard the cd "Night
Silence Desert" by Mohammad Reza Shajarian & Kayhan Kalhor, and really
enjoyed it. Does anyone have a recommendations of tradtional Iranian music
and sources for it?
Nirav
AIM: Icefactory37
- --
OnNow- Morphogenesis- Solarisation
"I had a great problem getting a start in filmmaking because my puberty came
late, and until I was sixteen or so, I looked like a very awkward
child-although I think it's the hunchbacks who make the movies." - Werner
Herzog
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:33:31 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Coming Elvis Attractions
On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 01:32:07PM +0100, Stephen Fruitman wrote:
> Elvis=B4 next album is a collaboration with the Swedish soprano Anne So=
fie
> von Otter. Apparently very quiet, intimate duets recorded during the mo=
nth
> of October. And one of the instrumentalists is Benny Andersson of ABBA =
fame
> (it was bound to happen....). All the best, Stephen
The mind boggles, trying to decide whether you mean Elvis Presley or
Elvis Stojko :-)
- --=20
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:35:47 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
In a message dated 3/11/01 3:17:27 PM, keith@pfmentum.com writes:
<< I wish we could set up a discussion between the mature
Brian Olewnick and the infantile Anthony "Ole[St.]Nick"
Braxton. >>
oh, give me a break. read the libretto for Trillium, and then tell me that
Braxton is beyond criticism.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:38:47 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: traditional Iranian music
In a message dated 3/11/01 3:31:11 PM, nirav@ink19.com writes:
<< I recently heard the cd "Night Silence Desert" by Mohammad Reza Shajarian
& Kayhan Kalhor, and really enjoyed it. Does anyone have a recommendations of
tradtional Iranian music and sources for it? >>
the Traditional Crossroads disc by Kalhor, Scattering Stars Like Dust, is
quite good. not sure if that label has released other Persian music, but all
of their releases seem to be very high quality.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:30:35 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnick@gis.net>
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
s~Z wrote:
>
> I wish we could set up a discussion between the mature
> Brian Olewnick and the infantile Anthony "Ole[St.]Nick"
> Braxton.
That'd be great; the guy's got some serious 'splainin' to do. ;-) Back
when Radano's book on Braxton came out I wrote him and asked if these
(to me) questionable aspects of Braxton's belief system occurred to or
bothered him and, if so, did he ever ask AB about them. His reply, as I
recall, was essentially that he agreed that some of them seemed odd and
was curious about them but didn't feel it was his place to ask about
them, much less criticize them. Wish he had! Might've given me more
solid bitching grounds.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:48:06 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:35:47PM -0500, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/11/01 3:17:27 PM, keith@pfmentum.com writes:
>
> << I wish we could set up a discussion between the mature
> Brian Olewnick and the infantile Anthony "Ole[St.]Nick"
> Braxton. >>
>
> oh, give me a break. read the libretto for Trillium, and then tell me that
> Braxton is beyond criticism.
I'd be eager to, but can't seem to convince myself to shake loose the
big bux for the CD set.
Considering the general negative consensus on the piece (people I know
who can listen to practically anything for long amounts of time walked
out on the premiere), does anyone want to sell off a used copy?
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:02:54 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
>>>Oh, give me a break. read the libretto for Trillium, and then tell
me that
Braxton is beyond criticism.<<<
I don't think either Brian or Tony, as I like to call him, are beyond
criticism.
I'd just like to hear Braxton talk back to his detractors.
I'll bring milk and cookies if someone can find a middle school
cafeteria to host this thing.
np: Dennis McKenna on Art Trip Show
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:04:40 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnick@gis.net>
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
s~Z wrote:
> I'd just like to hear Braxton talk back to his detractors.
Yeah, so would I, but that will only happen if someone actually dares to
ask, no? It'd be refreshing if the occasional interviewer of this or
that demi-god (and, fwiw, Braxton's got his own shrine in my house),
when subjected to some stream of silliness, actually had the guts to
blurt out, "What the HELL are you talking about?!?" Unfortunately,
fawning over celebs isn't limited to Entertainment Tonight.
Brian Olewnick
NP: Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M. - do (Erstwhile at the plate, it
swings...it's deep...another home run! Back-to-back jack by do and
dach!!)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:17:07 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: Jr. High School Tendencies of Great Musicians ;-)
>>>Yeah, so would I, but that will only happen if someone actually
dares to
ask, no?<<<
I tried to book him
here as part of our
pfMENTUM series,
so I could ask, but
he declined.
Frances-Marie Uitti
is appearing Friday
the 16th at Ventura
City Hall, for any
Southern Californians
interested.
She said she didn't put
her music in any other
categories. She thinks it
speaks eloquently for
itself.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:13:30 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: News for Lulu
on 3/10/01 10:22 PM, Tom Benton at rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote:
> Anyone have a copy of the above they'd be interested in parting with or
> know in the world a person's supposed to find one?
>
>
> -
>
I'm not letting mine out of my sight, and I'm definitely not inviting you
into my house. There's not someone in Austin who might want to sell it? Or
is everyone there too hip? :-)
- --Mike
- --
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:29:42 EST
From: DvdBelkin@aol.com
Subject: Re: News for Lulu
In a message dated 3/11/01 6:14:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mikec@rocler.qc.ca writes:
> Subj: Re: News for Lulu
> Date: 3/11/01 6:14:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
> > Anyone have a copy of the above they'd be interested in parting with or
> > know in the world a person's supposed to find one?
> >
> I'm not letting mine out of my sight, and I'm definitely not inviting you
> into my house.
Same here! ;-) But I've seen a copy pop up from time to time at the
Downtown Music Gallery (dmg@panix.com), and the Jazz Record Center (also in
NYC, 212-675-4480; no email that I know of) is also a possibility. And have
you searched GEMM? Good luck.
David
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:56:40 -0500
From: Matt Teichman <mft4@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: News for Lulu
Wow, I didn't even realize it was out of print :)
It was my first Zorn CD, and I got it as a Christmas present a few years
back. Never thought to ask where it was purchased.
DMG can start a wait list for the record; it will be like applying to
Harvard.
Anyone tried Napster? :)
>Same here! ;-) But I've seen a copy pop up from time to time at the
>Downtown Music Gallery (dmg@panix.com), and the Jazz Record Center (also in
>NYC, 212-675-4480; no email that I know of) is also a possibility. And have
>you searched GEMM? Good luck.
>
>David
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #329
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