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Zorn List Digest        Saturday, March 3 2001        Volume 03 : Number 315



In this issue:
-
       Re: the piano list
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #314
       Re: the piano list
       Re: Vision fest changes tune
       RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       RE: the piano list
       top ten again
       Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       RE: einstein on the beach versions
       RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       RE: Vision fest changes tune
       Prune Juice
       more gospel/vernard johnson
       Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?
       Re: einstein on the beach versions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:40:17 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: the piano list

In a message dated 3/3/01 12:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

>  Sonny Clark and Conlon Nancarrow...

I was thinking of Nancarrow too, but hesitated because he didn't himself play
and mostly didn't compose for "live" piano.   Among the stuff he did write
for a pianist to play, though, was "Two Canons for Ursula," she being the
Ursula Oppens who I did put on the list.  (Joanna McGregor is another fine
Nancarrow interpretor.)

Incidentally, for those familiar with my Sylvie Courvoisier devotion, the
only reason why I left her off the list is because she's been recording only
since '94; a little too young, perhaps, to be a "building block."

David

np.  Marilyn Crispell, Selected Works 1983-1986

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:09:07 -0500
From: Christopher eaton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #314

Just thought somebody on this list would appreciate this little anecdote,
being music junkies, all:

I go to school in an overly PC environment (Oberlin College) that can
sometimes be frustrating.  There's a huge racism/sexism debate going on
currently, and the political atmosphere is very tight these few weeks (to
give you an idea, reapeated attempts to paint over the "WHITE PEOPLE SUCK"
grafitti in my dorm have just ended in more vandalism).

Fed up by the heat last night, I slipped on the headphones and turned the
volume way up.  I opened the window wide and stripped off my shirt.  It was
one of those Joycean epiphanies.  One of those moments where you look at
the situation and say: "hey--rock and roll is freedom."  Needless to say, a
too-loud electric guitar may be the world's best panacea yet.

In quick response to the gospel thread, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned
any of the Staples' early work.  Or late work for that matter, which still
incorporates some gospel tinges.

~Christopher


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 13:31:39 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the piano list

skip heller

> In a message dated 3/3/01 12:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>> Sonny Clark and Conlon Nancarrow...
>
> I was thinking of Nancarrow too, but hesitated because he didn't himself play
> and mostly didn't compose for "live" piano.   Among the stuff he did write
> for a pianist to play, though, was "Two Canons for Ursula," she being the
> Ursula Oppens who I did put on the list.  (Joanna McGregor is another fine
> Nancarrow interpretor.)
>
> Incidentally, for those familiar with my Sylvie Courvoisier devotion, the
> only reason why I left her off the list is because she's been recording only
> since '94; a little too young, perhaps, to be a "building block."
>
> David
>
> np.  Marilyn Crispell, Selected Works 1983-1986
>
> -
>
>
Nancarrow is kind of off the beaten path here.  I'm talking about styles
that are in such universal rotation that, if a piano player were asked to
play something in a certain set style and replied "I don't know how to do
that", he would likely be asked how he's managed to stay in the piano
business.

Nancarrow, Bley, Sonny Clark, etc -- all amazing.  But their innovations
have not as yet found their way into general practice.

(The same goes for Uri, as much as I might think TOYS is one of the great
records of the last twenty years.  Anyone walk into a bar and hear the piano
player go into something fr Die Kindetotenlieder lately? If yes, tell me.  I
would dearly love to experience it.)

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:08:36 -0500
From: "jeton ademaj" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Vision fest changes tune

hi everyone,

first time poster here (been reading fer awhile and i know some of u in real
time-space)...just wanted to respond to Steve's post here:
Steve, u may not have any reason to believe me but i assure you that the
location of the Vision Fest at the Knit is Patricia Parker's idea (she's a
dancer/choreographer/activist and head of Arts for Art and the 'Fest).

from what i understand (and having seen the bill!), this is going to be the
best Visionfest yet; Michael Dorf is responsible for saying "yes" to the use
of his space (a sensible decision) but Vision Festival VI is very much in
control of itself...in fact it's grown into a confident, powerful and stable
alternative to corporate sponsorship/ control.

pardon all the sis-boom-bah but i felt compelled ;)

jeton

>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 01:48:08 -0500
>From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Vision Festival changes its tune...
>
>Those who were dismayed to learn that the Vision Festival was being held at
>Tonic this year may find this update a mixed blessing.  Taken from their
>website this evening on a tip from a friend - verbatim, I assure you:
>
>Sixth Annual Vision Festival @ A Vision Against Violence
>Friday, May 24, 2001 10 nights beginning at 7:30PM thru June 2
>The Best AvantJazz Music Dance Spoken Word & Visual Art Place: Knitting
>Factory 74 Leonard Street NYC
>
>Discuss amongst yourselves.  It's at www.visionfestival.org.  For me, more
>proof that Michael Dorf is the savviest businessman in the avant-garde.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:50:12 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

I think anyone who enjoys Shipp and Taylor would be interested to hear
Lowell Davidson ( I think this is self titled ) on Calibre.
aside from the fact that the other performers on the recording are milford
graves, and gary peacock, I really enjoy the heads which davidson plays.
They're simple yet they afford a whole lot of room for freedom which the
group exploits and moves beyond.  the whole group breathes really well i
feel.

also (while we're including drury and nancarrow):

Margaret Leng Tan.  I really only know her performances of Cage but...
also Rzewski's "the people united" is worth checking out...there's a
recording by stephen drury on new albion.

on this thread can anyone recommend some good Don Pullen recordings either
under his name or as a side man (perferably in print).  I've only heard him
on late mingus recordings.

and please, please, is no one able to shed some light on the Mahalia jackson
discography?  help us out.  I've heard only a "best of" compilation...what's
essencial??

Matt Wirzbicki


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:55:02 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the piano list

sorry, i should have put this disclaimer in the last message:
those recommendations are a pretty far afield for the original topic...

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:53:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: top ten again

The top ten lists have been interesting to peruse if a bit overwhelming in
quantity.
to add to the flood, here's mine:

1. kinks - village green preservation society
2. soft boys - a can of bees
3. duke ellington - blanton/webster years
4. zorn - spillane (original release)
5. beatles - sgt. peppers
6. miles davis - kind of blue
7. meat puppets - up on the sun
8. minutemen - double nickles on the dime
9. bernard paramengini - creation of the universe
10. luc ferrari - presque rein

honorable mention goes to:
gastr del sol - upgrade and afterlife
metallica - master of puppets
cure - head on the door
xtc - english roundabout
pierre boulez piano sonatas
...
and the whatever else i'm forgetting ;)

whit



- ------------------------------------------
Whit Schonbein
Philosophy-Neuroscience-Psychology Program
Department of Philosophy
Washington University
St. Louis, MO, USA 63130-4899

http://artsci.wustl.edu/~wwschonb/
[e-mail]
- ------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:21:12 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

In a message dated 3/3/01 6:51:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

>  also (while we're including drury and nancarrow):
>
>  Margaret Leng Tan.  I really only know her performances of Cage but...
>  also Rzewski's "the people united" is worth checking out...there's a
>  recording by stephen drury on new albion.

And another great recording of same by Oppens on Vanguard Classics.  (She's
also featured with Rzewski - who I was also considering for the list - on
Night Crossings with Fisherman and Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues.)

> I think anyone who enjoys Shipp and Taylor would be interested
> to hear Lowell Davidson ( I think this is self titled ) on Calibre.

Lowell Davidson sounds interesting, thanks.  AMG lists just a trio recording
on ESP from 1965.   Is he still around?

Another piano guy who should be mentioned in this company:

Richard Grossman (np: In The Air)

David



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 20:18:18 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

[e-mail] wrote:

> Lowell Davidson sounds interesting, thanks.  AMG lists just a trio recording
> on ESP from 1965.   Is he still around?

Someone correct me on this if need be, but I think he died at an early
age. I've also heard very good things about that recording (though I
have yet to actually hear it) and, fwiw, Cecil Taylor has mentioned him
in interviews as a pianist he enjoyed in the 60's.

Brian Olewnick (resisting the top 10 urge...so far)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 01:35:46 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

>From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" and please, please, is no one able to shed
>some light on the Mahalia jackson discography?  help us out.  I've heard
>only a "best of" compilation...what's essencial??

Best Mahalia is the 'Apollo Sessions' late '40s, early '50s, there is an
excellent set on the Westside label, 'How I Got Over', also the 'Gospel,
Spirituals & Hymns' sets (especially Vol.1) on Sony Legacy...

Peace Out!

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:41:28 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

skip heller

>> From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" and please, please, is no one able to shed
>> some light on the Mahalia jackson discography?  help us out.  I've heard
>> only a "best of" compilation...what's essencial??
>
> Best Mahalia is the 'Apollo Sessions' late '40s, early '50s, there is an
> excellent set on the Westside label, 'How I Got Over', also the 'Gospel,
> Spirituals & Hymns' sets (especially Vol.1) on Sony Legacy...
>
> Peace Out!
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
> -
>
>
Find me a substandard Mahalia performance and I'll give ya a donut.

Special props also to Marion Williams' late 60s LPs for Atlantic.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:38:35 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: einstein on the beach versions

I'll echo Myke's sentiments.  The later recording is smoother, more
authoritatively played, and more sensitive in timbre.  The only thing I
miss, really, is the unhinged quality of the saxophone soloing in the
original recording.  The soloist is far more reined-in in the remake.  But
the remake is a staggeringly good recording, and I wish that Nonesuch were
proceeding with the other operas in the "portrait" trio, as was supposedly
the plan back then, instead of bothering with the recent overblown
symphonies.

I just can't resist sharing the following anecdote.  Shortly after I moved
to New York in '93, I was on my way to a show at the old Knit when I stopped
for a moment in the small grocery store on the corner of the same block of
Houston Street.  There I happened to run into Glass.  I was definitely
starstruck - I was much more into his work then than I am now - and just had
to think of something to say to him.

Finally, I screwed up my courage and told him that I was a fan.  Then I
asked why it was that the new version, on 3 CDs, was billed as more complete
than the original 4 CD version.  He replied that the original version had
been made for LPs, and had not been reconfigured for the transfer to disc.
"LPs are short," he said, sagely.  "CDs are long."

"Okay," was my reply.  (Try to read that with the inflection of Keanu Reeves
in 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.')

Glass made his purchase and exited the store, and I gave him his distance,
vaguely embarassed at my fannishness.  I left the store a moment after him
and turned toward the Knitting Factory, Glass's back still visible as he
disappeared down the block.

Leaning against a wall near the club was a trio of youngish men, all clad in
black leather jackets and ripped jeans.  For all the world they looked like
the Ramones fan club.  But one of them was rhythmically chanting "Ahh-ooh,
ahh-ooh, ahh-ooh, ahh-ooh, ahh-ooh, ahh-ooh, ahh-ooh..." in a major third
interval.  Another was deeply intoning, "Koy-aaaahh-nis-qat-siiiiiiiiii...
Koy-aaaahh-nis-qat-siiiiiiiiii..."  All three were laughing uproariously.

And I thought to myself, "Only in New York..."

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:40:00 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

Resistance is futile.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Brian Olewnick
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 8:18 PM

Brian Olewnick (resisting the top 10 urge...so far)
- -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:51:48 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Vision fest changes tune

I don't doubt Patricia's intentions at all.  Nor do I question her
independence or authority.  And yes, I've also heard murmurs that this
Vision Fest will top everything that's come before it.

All I really meant to call attention to was the savvy that led Michael Dorf
to turn a negative position - having no festival at all this year - into a
positive one by offering to host the Vision Festival, which is clearly still
on an upward growth curve but establishing itself quite credibly, as you've
stated.  It helps Michael appear to not be out of the game altogether, and
it puts him back into the position of renegade and underdog relative to
George Wein's JVC behemoth - which for him is actually a position of
strength, it seems.

And I suppose that the Knit offers marginally more space than Tonic would
have, especially if they somehow make use of the Alterknit and Old Office
spaces.  But I still think it's going to be overcrowded and uncomfortable.

Hey, personal past baggage aside, I've said time and time again that I want
the Knit to survive, ultimately, as much for its iconic status in this field
of music as anything else.  And this is an example of exactly how Dorf is
likely to land on his feet yet again.  Really, it's extremely magnanimous of
William and Patricia to help him out like this.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:11:14 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Prune Juice

>>>Resistance is futile.<<<

But it is dangerous
to give in.
Thanks to this fuck-
ing list I spent one
billion hours listen-
ing to EAR ttth LI inGGGG
and now I am hopelessly
addict3d to BYERK's
homerogeNIC thank
GOD Jon Abbey is
on board to send me some
methadone just when
I'm about to POP out
but it really is BYERK
not BJORK it is import
ant to enunciate correct
ly when one is a Zornlist
hepcat





- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:43:51 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: more gospel/vernard johnson

while searching the All Music guide for more Mahalia Jackson info, I was
reminded of another gospel fave of mine, Vernard Johnson-I'm Alive, part of
the fairly short-lived Elektra Nonesuch American Explorer series. Vernard
sings and plays a rocking, R&B influenced saxophone, along the lines of King
Curtis, along with a backing band. great record!

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 03:56:45 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

>From: [e-mail]

>
><< Best Mahalia is the 'Apollo Sessions' late '40s, early '50s, >>
>
>this seems to be out of print, but I think I tracked down a copy and just
>ordered it. thanks!

There is a single disc collection on the Collectibles label (with their
usual mediocre sound) called Apollo Sessions '46-'51, but the Westside 3 CD
set 'How I Got Over' is pretty recent I think, so should still be available,
we were getting it pretty regularly where I worked last year...
On a gospel related tangent, if you don't know it, definitely check out the
'Sacred Steel' CD on Arhoolie, subtitled 'Traditional Sacred
African-American Steel Guitar Music in Florida', some amazing lap steel
playing here, all in the service of the Lord!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:01:11 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: piano list/pullen?/mahalia?

The one gospel album I have is "Memphis Gospel 1927-1929" (Document), with
Sister Mary Nelson, Lonnie McIntorsh and Bessie Johnson. I cannot recommend
this enough; it is spine-chillingly good. (Both Nelson and McIntorsh are on
one of the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music CDs, which is where
I heard 'em first.)

Later,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara
ICQ: 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 01:41:28 -0500
From: myke cuthbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: einstein on the beach versions

[e-mail] wrote on Mar  3:
> I'll echo Myke's sentiments.  The later recording is smoother, more
> authoritatively played, and more sensitive in timbre.  The only thing I
> miss, really, is the unhinged quality of the saxophone soloing in the
> original recording.

agreed.  the Aria (Bed) I also think is so much better in the first
recording--more straight tone.  audible breaths rather than seemingly
inhuman lengths of phrases.  Maybe i'd recommend buy the new one, but
get a dub of the last disc of the old CBS recording.

then try to get a look at the score and realize how little of what
seems to be essential to the opera is actually notated!

myke

[unrelated: i bought from Amazon the Boulez Passport to the 20th
century CD for the recording of Stockhausen's Kreuzspiel, and it's an
incredible performance (heard Intercontemporain do it live once so
figured it'd be great), but (unmentioned on the Amazon website) it's
only a 2/3 excerpt of the piece.  Anyone have a recommendation for a
good recording which has the whole piece?]

[unrelated #2: am teaching music history (classical, mostly western)
for music majors this year, and of course i want to do Zorn, but
trying to figure out where to include him in a lecture.  will only
have at most 1/3 of a class to do Zorn and "related artists" (before
we all shout, I only got 1 class on beethoven, 1 on the whole 14th
century, and 1/2 on mozart, so 1/3 on Zorn is already generous).  what
would be best subjects to include him with, for people who have never
heard his music.  one 50 minute class (so 15 minutes on Zorn) and 2
hours of prep listening and reading for the students (so maybe 40
minutes on Zorn).  My instinct is to put him with 15 minutes on
minimalism (Einstein and maybe the Adams Chamber Symphony) and 15
minutes on George Crumb and Partch.  But I could also see putting him
with Ferneyhough and some of the new tonalists and others with electic
influences (Del Tredici, Rands [since he's on our faculty], Berio).
But obviously if he were so easy to lump with others his music
wouldn't be so interesting, so it all seems so arbitrary.]


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #315
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