ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v03.n293

Internet Message Format | 2001-02-16 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #293
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest      Saturday, February 17 2001      Volume 03 : Number 293



In this issue:
-
       Re: Mike Patton
       Re: victoriaville
       Re: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...
       Re: Kevin Sharp again (relates to "metal" thread)
       Odp: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...
       Re: Odp: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...
       Re: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...
       Re: Mike Patton
       The Biafra trial (supposed to be Re:Patton whatever)
       Re: victoriaville
       Short run records
       Re: The Biafra trial (supposed to be Re:Patton whatever)
       Re: Short run records
       Re: victoriaville
       Re: victoriaville

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:53:07 -0800
From: "Mary Dalton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton

> Hope this helps.  I completely owe my discovery of experimental music to
this man.  Were it not for him, I would have not so easily sat down to Darin
Gray and Jim O'Rourke sets

I think alot of people do. I can't think of anybody else that was in
mainstream 'rock', except maybe thurston moore, that did so much to
introduce people to experimental, and other avenues of music. Mike is the
human equivelent of a minor bird, is there one style of vocal that this man
can not or has not done?

Alex


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:44:34 +0100
From: "Friedemann Boltes" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: victoriaville

<hey received my schedule in the mail today - lots of great stuff, Zorn's
Bar
Khobba, Zorn/Frith/Lombardo/Laswell, Fantomas, Bill Frisell Trio, DAve
Douglas
Witness, Otomo Yoshihide's Cathode, Keiji Haino w/ Thurston moore,
Stockhausen
& Walkman etc. etc. etc.  Looks reeeal good.>

Stockhausen & Walkman: what is that ? Could you give some more details ?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:50:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...

In a message dated 2/16/01 3:14:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<      Anyone heard Frisell's "The Lone Ranger" from the Before we were born
album?  Probably the best 7 and a half minutes of music commited to Analog
tape.......... >>

Admittedly stunning.  By far my favorite album of his, and that group, from
Lookout for Hope to Where in the World? played beautiful, transcendent music
that is also by far my favorite of Frisell's output.

- -Matt Mitchell

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:56:43 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Kevin Sharp again (relates to "metal" thread)

In a message dated 2/16/01 4:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Goodday,
 Talking about Kevin Sharp and Brutal Truth again: I just found out that on
 their last album "Goodbye Cruel World" Brutal Truth cover songs by Boredoms
 and Sun Ra! This seems pretty interesting to say the least. Anybody know
 excatly what the songs are?
 And is the album any good? I don't want to buy it just to get a 15 sec
 grindcore version of Sun Ra, surounded by an album of boring metal. Any
 comments? >>


Do you have Soul Discharge?  They play the first tune from that, and are
pretty faithful to it, actually.  They do another one, also, I don't remember
recognizing it; I got it just a little while ago and only have listened to it
once.  The Sun Ra is 'It's After the End of the World,' a song they also
cover on 'Sounds of the Animal Kingdom.'

'Goodbye Cruel World' is a double, keep in mind, but its only single-priced -
at least that's what I paid for it.  For what its worth, if you haven't heard
Brutal Truth, they are pretty interesting as grindcore bands go.  If you've
heard them and don't like them, I'd probably hesitate before buying it, as
the covers you mentioned only account for about 10 minutes of music at most.

- -matt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 19:24:44 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
>...       I see no relation or influence between Zorn and Zappa... I must
have 40 Zappa albums, 60 >Zorn albums, and the relationship seems almost
nil...
In an interview JZ gave when he was in Poland for the first time, he
mentioned Zappa as one of his major influences. He also refers to MOI in the
spillane booklet

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:25:07 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...

Marcin Gokieli wrote:

> In an interview JZ gave when he was in Poland for the first time, he
> mentioned Zappa as one of his major influences. He also refers to MOI in the
> spillane booklet

Always found it odd that Zorn has never, as far as I know, referred
specifically to 'Lumpy Gravy' as an obvious antecedant to his cut-up
compositions. Or has he?

Brian Olewnick

NP: John Butcher - Fixations (14)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:53:58 -0800
From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zappa/Patton/Zorn...

on 2/17/01 9:50 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 2/16/01 3:14:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> <<      Anyone heard Frisell's "The Lone Ranger" from the Before we were born
> album?  Probably the best 7 and a half minutes of music commited to Analog
> tape.......... >>
>
> Admittedly stunning.  By far my favorite album of his, and that group, from
> Lookout for Hope to Where in the World? played beautiful, transcendent music
> that is also by far my favorite of Frisell's output.
>
> -Matt Mitchell
>
> -
>
>
For me, THIS LAND was in most ways Frisell's -- and Joey's -- high watermark
to date.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:11:54 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton

On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:53:07PM -0800, Mary Dalton wrote:

> I think alot of people do. I can't think of anybody else that was in
> mainstream 'rock', except maybe thurston moore, that did so much to
> introduce people to experimental, and other avenues of music.

Brian Eno.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:21:55 -0800
From: "Fag music" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Biafra trial (supposed to be Re:Patton whatever)

Hey,
    I didn't know the trial was transcripted...where can I find it?
Evidences,
Judge Dredd


>The whole Biafra/AT/East Bay Ray thing is not as cut and dried as people
>here are implying, and, for anyone who has read transcripts of the trial and
>looked into the circumstances regarding the admissability of testimony and,
>in more cases than you'd think, evidence (and often the lack of evidence),
>there's a different story than "Jello screwed his buddies".  In fact, it's a
>MUCH different story than that.
>
>Neither "California Uber Alles" nor any other Dead Kennedys song has been
>used -- with Biafra's permission, anyway -- in any ad campaign of the Levis
>kind.
>
>Before making a judgement call about Biafra, AT, East Bay Ray, or anything
>pertaining to that case, I suggest you look closely into the actual facts,
>and not just some bumpersticker gossip, and especially not bad rock
>journalism (RJ Smith's piece in SPIN was low-rent spin-doctoring at its most
>appalling).  I also suggest you view the personalities up close.  I would
>not loan East Bay Ray the cost of a postage stamp.  Biafra, I would, because
>I know he'd pay it back.  The annoying thing would be that Jello would call
>a press conference to let everyone know he paid me back. Of the two, Jello
>has more "stand-up guy" about him (in my experience), even if he makes sure
>everyone knows it.
>
>The "Get Jello Biafra" attitude that seems to live out there is largely
>based on the fact that Jello Biafra is a loud guy with a big mouth.  But,
>from what the trial transcripts showed, he did not act dishonestly.  Guys
>who are as smart as he is and who are as loud as he is are not usually
>duplicitous.  Self-serving, perhaps.  Duplicitous, not usually.
>
>as ever --
>skip h
>
>np: marion williams, the new message (fantastic late 60s Atlantic LP)
>
>
>
>
>-




- ------------------------------------------------------------
http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/    <--- You Have A Greeting  :)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:38:24 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: victoriaville

on 2/16/01 11:38 AM, mwoodwor at [e-mail] wrote:

Hey, are you subject to a non-disclosure agreement, or what?  Is there any
reasons why no one here has posted a full schedule?  There is nothing on the
FIMAV site.  As it stands, this is all quite a big tease.  It's not fair!

- --Mike

> hey received my schedule in the mail today - lots of great stuff, Zorn's Bar
> Khobba, Zorn/Frith/Lombardo/Laswell, Fantomas, Bill Frisell Trio, DAve Douglas
> Witness, Otomo Yoshihide's Cathode, Keiji Haino w/ Thurston moore, Stockhausen
> & Walkman etc. etc. etc.  Looks reeeal good.
>
>
> -
>

- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:51:00 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Short run records

Just Wondering:

What's considered a respectable number of copies sold for these bands we
love?

Is there a place on the web or a magazine that gives these numbers, for
US labels as well as  astute foreign labels?

I'd like to know, say, how a  Masada disc sells compared to The Book of
Heads...  Or Charms of the Night Sky compared to Sanctuary...  I know
pretty much what to expect, but since so many of our favorite artists
depend on worldwide sales, and god nose we know there's no accounting
for taste, there's plenty of room for surprises.

Is records-sold info on short sellers something  that the labels (and/or
artists) protect?

One nice thing about being out of the mainstream is that it leaves
plenty of room for a "timeless" disc to continue selling for years or
decades, assuming the label can stay afloat or, if not, the masters get
passed on to a willing label.

Taking this into account, the number sold in the first week or even
month wouldn't be as interesting as overall worldwide sales of, for
example, Henry Threadgill's Very Very Circus live at Koncepts since it
was released in 1991(or was it '92?).

Of course we're not here because we want to buy the most popular music,
but there is a weird pleasure in shaking my head at the blind stupidity
of the sheeplike masses.

Remember in E B White's The Once and Future King, where little Arthur is
turned into an ant and all the ants are so excited when that "La la la"
song comes on over the loudspeakers, and it just comes on again and
again....  And they love it every time.

Or David Byrne's "Heaven" where they play your favorite song all night long...

Gotta go, I'm starting to ramble,

Dan

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:54:37 -0800
From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Biafra trial (supposed to be Re:Patton whatever)

on 2/17/01 1:21 PM, Fag music at [e-mail] wrote:

> Hey,
> I didn't know the trial was transcripted...where can I find it?
> Evidences,
> Judge Dredd
>
>
>> The whole Biafra/AT/East Bay Ray thing is not as cut and dried as people
>> here are implying, and, for anyone who has read transcripts of the trial and
>> looked into the circumstances regarding the admissability of testimony and,
>> in more cases than you'd think, evidence (and often the lack of evidence),
>> there's a different story than "Jello screwed his buddies".  In fact, it's a
>> MUCH different story than that.
>>
>> Neither "California Uber Alles" nor any other Dead Kennedys song has been
>> used -- with Biafra's permission, anyway -- in any ad campaign of the Levis
>> kind.
>>
>> Before making a judgement call about Biafra, AT, East Bay Ray, or anything
>> pertaining to that case, I suggest you look closely into the actual facts,
>> and not just some bumpersticker gossip, and especially not bad rock
>> journalism (RJ Smith's piece in SPIN was low-rent spin-doctoring at its most
>> appalling).  I also suggest you view the personalities up close.  I would
>> not loan East Bay Ray the cost of a postage stamp.  Biafra, I would, because
>> I know he'd pay it back.  The annoying thing would be that Jello would call
>> a press conference to let everyone know he paid me back. Of the two, Jello
>> has more "stand-up guy" about him (in my experience), even if he makes sure
>> everyone knows it.
>>
>> The "Get Jello Biafra" attitude that seems to live out there is largely
>> based on the fact that Jello Biafra is a loud guy with a big mouth.  But,
>> from what the trial transcripts showed, he did not act dishonestly.  Guys
>> who are as smart as he is and who are as loud as he is are not usually
>> duplicitous.  Self-serving, perhaps.  Duplicitous, not usually.
>>
>> as ever --
>> skip h
>>
>> np: marion williams, the new message (fantastic late 60s Atlantic LP)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://e2893.37.com/Free-E-Card/    <--- You Have A Greeting  :)
>
>
>
> -
>
>
I don't know if the transcripts are generally available.  A friend of mine
reported on the trial, and recorded and transcribed it for a book he's
writing, and I got to see it.

If you're in SF (or near it), the district court will be able to make any
and all transcripts/motions/discovery docs available, as these things are
public.

skip heller


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:30:34 -0800
From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Short run records

on 2/17/01 1:51 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> Just Wondering:
>
> What's considered a respectable number of copies sold for these bands we
> love?
>
> Is there a place on the web or a magazine that gives these numbers, for
> US labels as well as  astute foreign labels?
>
> I'd like to know, say, how a  Masada disc sells compared to The Book of
> Heads...  Or Charms of the Night Sky compared to Sanctuary...  I know
> pretty much what to expect, but since so many of our favorite artists
> depend on worldwide sales, and god nose we know there's no accounting
> for taste, there's plenty of room for surprises.
>
> Is records-sold info on short sellers something  that the labels (and/or
> artists) protect?
>
> One nice thing about being out of the mainstream is that it leaves
> plenty of room for a "timeless" disc to continue selling for years or
> decades, assuming the label can stay afloat or, if not, the masters get
> passed on to a willing label.
>
> Taking this into account, the number sold in the first week or even
> month wouldn't be as interesting as overall worldwide sales of, for
> example, Henry Threadgill's Very Very Circus live at Koncepts since it
> was released in 1991(or was it '92?).
>
> Of course we're not here because we want to buy the most popular music,
> but there is a weird pleasure in shaking my head at the blind stupidity
> of the sheeplike masses.
>
> Remember in E B White's The Once and Future King, where little Arthur is
> turned into an ant and all the ants are so excited when that "La la la"
> song comes on over the loudspeakers, and it just comes on again and
> again....  And they love it every time.
>
> Or David Byrne's "Heaven" where they play your favorite song all night long...
>
> Gotta go, I'm starting to ramble,
>
> Dan
>
> -
>
>
There's not really a place where the general public can see the number of
copies sold.  There is a service available to wholesaler/retailers called
SoundScan, that is kind tells the number of over-the-counter copies sold,
but it's figures come mostly fr big chains, so Mom and Pop sales don't
really figure in, and stuff like Amazon and CD Now -- last I heard --
weren't tallied directly to SoundScan.  If you're Tim Berne, you may not
sell more than 500 copies in the chains, but, after mail order and
off-the-bandstand sales, you're liable to see anywhere from two- to
five-thousand copies have been sold of a given title.

The jazz/new music ghetto means that sales of anywhere between 700 and 5000
copies can be expected.  Guys who reliably sell 10,000 copies (like Dave
Douglas) get to be superstars.

Certain Zorn titles probably don't sell great, but, when you figure he has
about sixty titles, that means there are a lot of Zorn albums in the world.
BAR KOKHBA is reportedly Tzadik's biggest seller, something around 30,000
copies.  That makes up for a lot, and keeps a lot of lesser-selling titles
in print.

The gamut of sales numbers is a wide one.  Obviously, Dave Douglas is going
to sell -- by our standards -- big numbers, whereas a Mark Feldman album
might only sell 1000.  But, because of the relatively low overhead of these
companies, you don't always have to sell a lot to stay in print and continue
to record.  The numbers can be flexible, depending on the label's commitment
to the artist, their cost of staying in business, where they get their money
from (I'm pretty sure Stefan Winter had some dough before he ever started a
record label, and lots of it).

skip heller

mp: cannonball adderley live in san francisco


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:28:07 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: victoriaville

In a message dated 2/17/01 4:34:38 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Hey, are you subject to a non-disclosure agreement, or what?  Is there any
reasons why no one here has posted a full schedule?  There is nothing on the
FIMAV site.  As it stands, this is all quite a big tease.  It's not fair! >>

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I actually did promise Michel not to
make his schedule public. it should be out any day now, although he always
mails the booklets well before he updates the web site.

I will answer the Frisell trio question, though, he's playing with Tony
Scherr and Kenny Wollesen.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:41:26 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: victoriaville

on 2/17/01 6:28 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> In a message dated 2/17/01 4:34:38 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Hey, are you subject to a non-disclosure agreement, or what?  Is there any
> reasons why no one here has posted a full schedule?  There is nothing on the
> FIMAV site.  As it stands, this is all quite a big tease.  It's not fair! >>
>
> I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I actually did promise Michel not to
> make his schedule public. it should be out any day now, although he always
> mails the booklets well before he updates the web site.

I knew that, but I just figured that someone who had received the mailed
schedule would have posted it by now.
>

- --Mike

- --



- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #293
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]