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Zorn List Digest      Tuesday, February 13 2001      Volume 03 : Number 281



In this issue:
-
       cecil/free jazz
       johnny cash
       David Soldier and the Thai Elephant Orchestra
       Re: cecil/free jazz
       Re: cecil/free jazz
       Re: David Soldier and the Thai Elephant Orchestra
       Re: David Soldier and the Thai Elephant Orchestra
       Listers
       Re: Tom Ze
       Re: magical power mako (was Re: Ambient Music Recs...)
       Re: Tom Ze
       Re: Tom Ze
       Re: cecil/free jazz
       paul
       Re: Listers
       Mike Patton
       tony scherman
       trane in fame

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:09:02
From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: cecil/free jazz

>i just purchased Cecil Taylor's "Unit Structures", and i have yet to
> >solidify an opinion. i think i like it, but i don't really know how to
> >listen to free jazz, or what makes it "good". maybe someone can
> >enlighten me.

Hmm... Frist, Unit Structures is not my personal favorite Cecil Taylor
album, although it is one of his best known. For me, it seems a little "dry"
compared to some of his others. Anyway, my first response to Cecil was
probably similar: I thought I liked it, but didn't know what to make of it
and probably tried too hard to "get" it. The one I kept listening to was
Silent Tongues (solo piano from the early 70s). The short tracks near the
end of that are also relatively accessible for him and those helped me get
more of a grip on things.

Then I got 3 Phasis -- that is a monster, and it genuinely scared me the
first time I heard it b/c it's so dark and intense. Also, it is a single
57-minute piece and that requires some stamina (it helps that they indexed
that cd into separate tracks, though; I wish they did that more often).
Also, with the small group (this is a sextet) albums like this, it's good
because you can hear the horns playing the various themes that he has
written more clearly than in his solo playing, and that also helps in
following it.

One other one that I heard relatively early was the Jazz Composers Orchestra
2LP (with "Communications"). That one is massive, very dark and dense.

One that I have gotten lately that is really great, but probably even more
challenging to listen to, is Nailed, with Evan Parker, Barry Guy and Tony
Oxley. That's completely improvised, as I understand it, and extremely
intense/kinetic over a long period of time. With all of his music, but
especially something like Nailed, I find that it's best to just sit back and
let it "wash over you" or whatever, rather than strain to follow every note,
because that's just exhausting and is like information overload... At least
that's my take. Anyway, if you think you like it, I would say keep listening
to it, it grows on you and makes more and more sense (at least sublimanally)
over time. On the other hand, if you feel like there's nothing that
interests you in it, I would go on to something else, and not pull my hair
out trying to "get it."

Now if someone could come up with a way of elucidating his extended-form
poetry performances... (like the one he did at the Luggage Store Gallery in
SF last fall).

WY





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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:37:29 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: johnny cash

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Pneumonia has once again put singer Johnny Cash in the
hospital.
Cash, 68, was in serious but stable condition Monday morning at Baptist
Hospital. Spokeswoman Donna Mason said he was admitted Sunday morning.
Cash was treated for pneumonia during a two-week hospital stay in October 1999.
In 1998, he was hospitalized twice for it and said later he nearly died that
fall. He was diagnosed in 1997 as suffering from a nervous system disease called
Shy-Drager's syndrome, but later was told by doctors that was a misdiagnosis.
He said as recently as two months ago that his health was much improved.
Cash, known as "The Man in Black," has had a string of hits such as "A Boy Named
Sue," "Folsom Prison Blues," "I Walk the Line" and "Sunday Morning Coming Down."
An eight-time Grammy winner and a six-time winner of Country Music Association
awards, Cash was elected to the Country Music Hall of Fame in 1980 and inducted
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992. He was nominated this year for two
more Grammys.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:45:26 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: David Soldier and the Thai Elephant Orchestra

    I was suprised today to hear on NPR about a project of Thai elephants
playing music. Even more surprising was the fact that David Soldier was
behind it! The record is on Mulatto (?).

    Patrice (wondering if it would work with other elephants).


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:36:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cecil/free jazz

CT newbies,

William York's recommendations are excellent, I
sencond them, with a small handful of additional
comments:

- --- William York <[e-mail]> wrote:
> The one I
> kept listening to was
> Silent Tongues (solo piano from the early 70s).

You can also hear on this record how Taylor outlines
some of the "patterns" and harmonic/rhythmic
strategies he seems to employ in (smaller) group
contexts; lots and lots of CT hardcores refer to this
record over and over; I think Downtown Music Gallery,
among other places, has really cheap copies of it.

> Then I got 3 Phasis -- that is a monster, and it
> genuinely scared me the
> first time I heard it b/c it's so dark and >
intense...

If I'm correct, this was one of the two compact discs
of material that resulted from a mammoth recording
session for New World Records; the other CD is still
available as well, and is composed of three
not-as-long compositions (though one is about 30m).  I
remember at least this record not being as "scary"
becuase Ronald Shannon Jackson's drumming keeps
wanting to slide into some kind of funky backbeat.
Taylor's meloic style has something of the apocalyptic
about it, and I've been trying to forge a connection
with Edward Vesala's music, though that theory hasn't
gone anywhere (yet).  The triumphant, war-like of the
big-band WINGED SERPENTS on Black Saint (?) are
breathtaking.

> One that I have gotten lately that is really great,
> but probably even more
> challenging to listen to, is Nailed, with Evan
> Parker, Barry Guy and Tony
> Oxley.

Unbelieveable.  At least as good as anything that
Taylor has done, in this vein.  I suppose I'd
recommend anything by the "Feel" trio (w/Oxley and
William Parker), as well; this group exhibits a
special kind of empathy, a kind of
multiplicity-beyond-competition, never trying to make
a facile "unified" statement, never settling for the
obvious in terms of what constitutes "interaction".  I
don't think you are alone in meeting CT's music, or
some of it at least, as a wall of ambivalence; better
to bring that kind of uncertainty to it than to waste
your time spewing encomia.  You DON'T have to prepare
yourself to approach CT's music any more, or---I'd go
out on a limb here---really any differently than you
would for a gospel mass choir, a Xenakis chamber
concert, or a recital of Balinese gamelan
music...that's if you want to _listen_ to these
musics, and place your inner workings inside their
inner workings.  The kind of interaction that, say,
Cecil and Derek Bailey and others may have pioneered
deals with breaking down what constitutes as
improivisation and its symptoms, i.e. interaction for
one.  Somehow I think of onions rather than peaches,
if we're talking structure and layers.  There's still
a tension/release holdover, I think; I think this part
of what people like AMM are stripping away, or
suspending at least.  Just musing here; I'm glad
Obvious brought this up.  Though I hate to respond to
an appreciation question with additional recommended
listening, some improvisors, I find, are done justice
with greater scope of listening; careful listening to
six or ten Cecil Taylor records from throughout his
career, helps me appreciate EACH ONE quite a bit more
than before.  It has to do with context, but also with
getting the sense of a larger project; so maybe it has
even more to do with, um, "Text".  And "project" is
too constrictive, too centered, for what I'm trying to
say here.  I think of people like Morton Feldman, Jim
o'Rourke, AMM, Eugene Chadbourne, maybe Keiji Haino,
as being this way; various cultures' productions seem
to operate this way too.  Just a couple ideas,
improvised.

Spouting off,

- ----s

__________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:23:59 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cecil/free jazz

The best way to 'get' Cecil is to see him live.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:48:45 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Soldier and the Thai Elephant Orchestra

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>         I was suprised today to hear on NPR about a project of Thai elephants
> playing music. Even more surprising was the fact that David Soldier was
> behind it! The record is on Mulatto (?).

Check out:

http://www.mulatta.org/Thaielephantorch.html

and:

http://www.newmusicbox.org/third-person/apr00/dsoldier.html

for further info.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:43:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Soldier and the Thai Elephant Orchestra

No,
the elephants interested in electroacoustic music are
having the greatest trouble finding computer keyboards
big enough for their hooves. Maybe there's a niche
market here somewhere.

Ken Waxman

- --- "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
wrote:
>
>     I was suprised today to hear on NPR about a
projectof Thai elephants playing music. Even more
surprising was the factthat David Soldier was
> behind it! The record is on Mulatto (?).
>
>     Patrice (wondering if it would work with other
> elephants).


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:25:45 -0500
From: "Toula Ballas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Listers

A few things:

1) Can anyone please comment on the Mercurial Visions fest held on Feb 8th.
2) Is the upcoming Vision Festival program out yet
3) Is anyone besides me bummed out that it is at Tonic this year


Paul

np: Bob Ostertag - Sooner or Later





- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:13:20 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tom Ze

In a message dated 2/12/01 1:12:46 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I'm wondering what people here have to say about Tom Ze's

music.  I've heard one compilation recording (I don't even

know the name because I was listening to a friend's burned

copy w/no track list etc.).  I guess I'm wondering what

recordings are most worthwhile and whether or not there's a

kind of chronological trajectory to be aware of...(?)


The compilation sounded kind of hit and miss...I'm wondering

if there's a more consistantly interesting recording availible. >>

well, I think Tom Ze is pretty great, but if the Luaka Bop compilation is the
one you heard, he might not be your cup of tea.

his best work is on his four seventies records, which were released on two
2fers last year, Se O Caso E Chorar/Todos Os Olhos and Estudando O
Samba/Correio Da Estacao Do Bras (both on Warner Brazil). the Luaka Bop
compilation is drawn almost entirely from the middle two of these four
albums, and is well selected, although I've only had the original records for
a few months.

the records he's made since his return in the nineties aren't as consistent,
although the first one, The Hips Of Tradition (Luaka Bop), I also like a lot.
the brand new one is supposed to be bad, although I haven't heard it myself.

there's a good annotated discography at
www.slipcue.com/music/brazil/tomze.html.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:26:41 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: magical power mako (was Re: Ambient Music Recs...)

I'm not a huge Magical Power Mako fan myself, but Matt said:

<< The day that I recieved this record, Ash Ra Tempel's first, the

Destroy All Monsters cd set, and 50 Foot Hose's first album >>

the Destroy All Monsters 3 CD box is easily my favorite of these four. it's
on Ecstatic Peace, and unfortunately long out of print, but I'm sure there
are some taking up space in display cases around the country. it documents
the work of a Michigan band from 1974-1976, who I'm not quite sure how to
describe, maybe the Stooges filtered through a free jazz/art rock aesthetic?
Mike Kelley, the visual artist who did Sonic Youth's Dirty cover, was a
founding member. anyway, pick it up if you can, you won't be sorry.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:12:02 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tom Ze

>although the first one, The Hips Of Tradition (Luaka Bop), I also like a
lot.
>the brand new one is supposed to be bad, although I haven't heard it myself.

I actually like "Fabrication Defect" quite a bit, perhaps more than "Hips
of Tradition."  Takes a bit longer to get into and in many ways it's not
quite as consistent but there's something about it that just floats through
my mind.  Those 70s two-fer reissues are high on my way-too-long list of
future purchases.

Lang







- -------------------------------------------
Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Documentary Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:31:53 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tom Ze

In a message dated 2/12/01 9:13:22 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< >although the first one, The Hips Of Tradition (Luaka Bop), I also like a
lot.
>the brand new one is supposed to be bad, although I haven't heard it myself.

I actually like "Fabrication Defect" quite a bit, perhaps more than "Hips
of Tradition." >>

just to clarify, by the brand new one, I meant the just released Jogos de
Armar.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:43:10 -0500
From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cecil/free jazz

AMEN!

s~Z wrote:

> The best way to 'get' Cecil is to see him live.
>
> -

Cecil played the Pittsburgh Jazz festival the year I lived there
outdoors at point state park on the rivers.  You could feel him hitting
the keys from the audience.  Intense.

By the way, I got into Cecil via the solo piano records like "Silent
Tongues"  Most of the FMP records are phenomenal (obviously...it feels
funny saying that, a bit like saying that Thomas Pynchon is
phenomenal--you don't have to like him to admit that...)

matt



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:07:55 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: paul

- --part1_d2.251fcf3.27b9ff0b_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/11/01 9:46:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Paul Schutze

where can you find his albums?

ben o.

- --part1_d2.251fcf3.27b9ff0b_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#3dffff"><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/11/01 9:46:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>[e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Paul Schutze</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>where can you find his albums?
<BR>
<BR>ben o.</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_d2.251fcf3.27b9ff0b_boundary--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:43:47 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Listers

In a message dated 2/12/01 7:21:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

>  2) Is the upcoming Vision Festival program out yet

Don't think so.

>  3) Is anyone besides me bummed out that it is at Tonic this year

Not me.  The limited seating and wander-around space at Tonic will be (one
hopes!) a problem (maybe less so if Subtonic is thrown into the mix), but at
least - or at last - the music will sound good.  The acoustics at the last
two VF venues left alot to be desired.  And I thought that Tonic served very
well hosting the Ear & Now festival exactly one year ago.

David

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 08:31:52 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Mike Patton

Since I haven't seen his work discussed here before, or just didn't notice it, I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on Pattons work.  Not only his specific solo works, but Faith No More, Fantomas, and Mr. Bungle.  Is he working on any new projects at the moment?

Thanks

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:36:07 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: tony scherman

is this the same guy that wrote that piece of tripe trashing zorn in the times a
year and a half ago or so? and the more recent mistake-filled sun ra/jazz
reissues piece? he's got a piece in last sunday's times on electronic music --
no less interesting and informative than the others.

kg
np: aretha franklin - queen of soul: the atlantic recordings (disc 4)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:35:45 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: trane in fame

SANTA MONICA, Calif. (AP) - The Grammy Hall of Fame has added 31 more songs and
albums to its list of enduring classics, including the Beatles' 1968 recording
"Hey Jude" and Ray Charles' 1962 "I Can't Stop Loving You."
The Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences also included The Supremes' 1965
anthem "Stop! In The Name Of Love," James Brown & The Famous Flames' 1956 hit
"Please, Please, Please," Patsy Cline's 1961 recording "I Fall To Pieces," and
John Coltrane's 1960 jazz exposition "Giant Steps."
The Grammy Hall of Fame was established in 1973 by the academy's trustees to
honor recordings of enduring quality and relevance or historical significance.
Balloting is open to recordings released more than 25 years ago and are selected
by a panel of industry professionals and historians.
- ---
On The Net: http://www.grammys.com



- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #281
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