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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #199
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 03 : Number 199
In this issue:
-
Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
PD: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
PD: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
More Zappa (with a little Zorn content)
Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
escalator over the hill
Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
Re: Masada in Europe next fall
Re: Masada in Europe next fall
Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
Re: escalator over the hill
Frank Zappa changed my life (no zorn content)
worst zorn record
Re: worst zorn record
Re: Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
Zappa (sorry if this is long)
Re: zappa
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:04:49 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
At 06:49 AM 12/14/00 -0500, Jesse Kudler wrote:
>
>Is Freak Out the one where the sleeve lists a bunch of experimental artists
>as influences? I read somewhere that Jim O'Rourke credited that with first
>getting him into all that stuff, as he went and researched all of them at
>the library. (We certainly don't have a library like that were I live).
Yup, that's the one. FZ quoted Edgar 'the present day composer refuses to
die' Varese on all of the early albums, but the big list is in Freak Out.
I remember searching out Stockhausen and a couple of the others myself.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:37:52 +0100
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Subject: PD: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
- ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Do: "Adam Rock" <arock01@postoffice.csu.edu.au>
Wyslano: 14 grudnia 2000 13:34
Temat: Odp: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
|
| ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
| Od: "Adam Rock" <arock01@postoffice.csu.edu.au>
| Do: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
| Wyslano: 14 grudnia 2000 11:04
| Temat: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
|
|
| >Hi Folks,
|
| >Can anyone recommend some Frank Zappa albums that may function as useful
| starting points for the newbie? Apologies if >this question has already
been
| raised on the list.
|
| >Thanks,
|
| >Adam
|
|
| Most accesible is "Cruising with the Ruben and Jets" but my favs are
"Bongo
| Fury", "One size fits all" "Grand Wazoo" and "Hot Rats"
|
|
| Jerzy
|
|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:37:38 +0100
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Subject: PD: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
- ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Do: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Wyslano: 14 grudnia 2000 13:35
Temat: Odp: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
|
| |
| | Avoid Mothers Live at Fillmore 1971, too many early 1970s references in
| the
| | comedy bits and not enough music.
| |
| | --
| | Caleb Deupree
|
|
| IMHO very funny album. I like Flo&Eddie :))
|
|
|
| Jerzy
|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:38:31 +0000
From: Nuno Barreiro <nbar@di.fc.ul.pt>
Subject: More Zappa (with a little Zorn content)
<< Hi Folks,
Can anyone recommend some Frank Zappa albums that may function as
useful
starting points for the newbie? Apologies if this question has already
been
raised on the list.
Thanks,
Adam >>
I think that the interesting thing about Zappa (and, by the way, about
Zorn too - the Z initial is not the only thing in common) is that you
can't just recommend a few albums for the newbie. In order to recommend
anything one really needs to know who the newbie is (musically, I mean).
Zappa has several different approaches to music, corresponding to his
different bands and phases, which are all coherent and respectable. And
when you enter the Zappa universe you usually end up by understanding
and enjoying (more or less) all this approaches, even if you have
started by the specific one/ones which is/are closer to your musical
tastes.
A good example of this:I have a friend who (like me) is crazy about
Zappa and Zorn, but that's about all that we like in common (musically,
of course).
Best,
Nuno
PS: I wrote to the list a few weeks ago about Boulez... I had a few
reactions to my mail but still haven't answered them. In fact, what was
supposed to be a short reply became something more elaborate and I'll
have to find some time to finish it... Coming soon!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:52:16 GMT+0100
From: "Jeroen de Boer" <usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
Personally I got introduced by Zappy through listening to his later
work first: _The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life_, _Make A
Jazz Noise Here_ plus all the other '88-related albums. From there on
I started to listen to the _You Can't Do That..series_, which made me
familiar with the earlier work also. And the addiction started..
My personal favourite for a rather long time now is _We're Only In It
For The Money_.
Jeroen
- ----------------------------------------
Jeroen de Boer
music director Open Electronic Festival/Cyberslag Foundation
Munnekeholm 10, 9711JA Groningen
The Netherlands
tel/fax: +31 (0)503634676/(0)503632209
gsm: +31 (0)624814506
usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl
http://www.cyberslag.com
- ----------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:54:50 EST
From: Acousticlv@aol.com
Subject: escalator over the hill
In a message dated 12/14/00 8:06:53 AM, you wrote:
<<First of all didn't the Kink's Ray Davies do a
documentary on Monk?
no, he did one on one Mingus. "weird Nightmare', ...
a documentary of the making of the Hal Willner curated tribute record. .>>
hi crew;
just saw the video of the making of carla bley's 'escalator over the hill'
by stephen gebhardt; moving, stunning, and made me feel old in a good way.
the sound and film are astoundingly clear. highly recommended.
steve koenig
n.p. james fei 3"CDr: for saxophone with card reed and gated amplification
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:33:14 +0100
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
Jeroen de Boer wrote:
My personal favourite for a rather long time now is _We're Only In It
> For The Money_.
>
oh my god - how could i have possibly forgotten that!
totally second this recommendation! the cd has "lumpy gravy" as an added
bonus. essential zappa!
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:50:18 +0100
From: patrice schneider <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Masada in Europe next fall
Andreas Dietz wrote:
> Hi Zornlisters,
>
> recently there was a thread about Masada=B4s end in the near future and=
the
> last european concert in Paris in january - but on Dave Douglas=B4 webs=
ite is
> Masada scheduled october 14 in Bern, Switzerland...
>
> Andreas
but it also says there "tba" (=3D to be announced).
what i find a bit weird is the fact that "masada" are not listed under th=
e "concert
offers 2001" on the "saudades" homepage... (for those who don't know: "sa=
udades"
represent zorn - and many other downtowners - over here in europe.)
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:11:02 +0100
From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Masada in Europe next fall
>From: patrice schneider <gda@datacomm.ch>
>
>but it also says there "tba" (= to be announced).
this is not tbc (to be confirmed) and I understand tba only the venue is
uncertain
>what i find a bit weird is the fact that "masada" are not listed under the
>"concert
>offers 2001" on the "saudades" homepage... (for those who don't know:
>"saudades"
>represent zorn - and many other downtowners - over here in europe.)
>
>patRice
it┤s listed under special projects on request as it was in the past
Andreas
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 06:58:49 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
UNCLE MEAT
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:57:33 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: escalator over the hill
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 07:54:50AM -0500, Acousticlv@aol.com wrote:
> just saw the video of the making of carla bley's 'escalator over the hill'
> by stephen gebhardt; moving, stunning, and made me feel old in a good way.
> the sound and film are astoundingly clear. highly recommended.
Ooh... Is this available?
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:50:10 -0500
From: perdida <mbraendl@yorku.ca>
Subject: Frank Zappa changed my life (no zorn content)
Jesse wrote:
Is Freak Out the one where the sleeve lists a bunch of experimental
artists
as influences? I read somewhere that Jim O'Rourke credited that with
first
getting him into all that stuff, as he went and researched all of them at
the library. (We certainly don't have a library like that were I live).
__________________________________________________________________________
I was 15 years old when I bought Freak Out (and still have it, in
reasonable playing condition, 33 years later!) When I read the liner
notes I realized that there was so much more out there to learn as far as
music and philosophy were concerned, than I had dreamt of! Of course, at
that age, that's probably not saying much, but I do distinctly remember
reading a reference to Edgard Varese, which sent me on my first quest for
musical knowledge that led past what AM radio in Montreal was playing at
that time.
Marianne
________________________________________________________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"ah, music....a magic beyond all we do here!"
Albus Dumbledore in 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone'
***********
"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
Frank Zappa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marianne Catarina Braendlein
Centre for the Support of Teaching
York University
Toronto, Ontario.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:31:37 -0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: worst zorn record
An old mail I found, which I meant to reply to long time ago. From the
discussion about the worst ever Zorn record:
>"Nani Nani" (with Yamatsuka Eye) and the infamous guest spot
>with the Intergalactic Maiden Ballet (I haven't actually heard it >myself
>due to all the warnings). "Nani Nani" actually has it's moment
>(s) but generally it's just Zorn and Eye screwing around...
"Nani Nani" is one of my absolute favorite records, Zorn and otherwise!!
But, I consider this much more an Eye record than a Zorn record. For me,
this is clearly not just some piece of throwaway pissing around, as many
people have accused it of, but seems closely related to the things Eye is
doing in the Puzzle Punks band and some of his other recent projects. So
since this is basically Eye and not Zorn, donÆt expect superb arrangements
of beautiful Jewish melodies played by amazing musicians. This is not what
Eye does, so if you expect something like that you will get dissapointed.
Very.
This also goes for the most controversial track, the ôultra minimalistö 18
minute one. For me this is a perfectly logic extension of what Eye and
Boredoms have been experimenting with since ôChocolate Synthesiezerö. He has
also said this himself in interviews. He calls it ôCosmic Trance Ambientö or
whatever. ôSuper Roots 3ö is even more extreme in that direction anyway,
thatÆs over 35 minutes long, so donÆt come here complaining... :-) Had this
been released now, I think people would look totally different on this
track, concidering the whole sinewave thing has come and gone since. But
since it just happens to predate all that, people think itÆs trash.
I will, however, admit to not actually listening to the whole 18min track
every time I hear this CD, but IÆm not a big fan of sinewave stuff... :-)
But the stuff with Intergalactic Maiden Ballet is surely horrible!
ARTHUR_G
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:44:50 -0600
From: "samuel yrui" <nonintention@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: worst zorn record
yeah,
i've only listen to the 18 min thing three times or something. i like it,
but it requires patience. i'm interested in this sine wave stuff, however.
i have some friends who have shown me a few things on the computer, but I'm
curious what you're talking about and if it's similar to what my friends
have shown me. do you know what equipment or software is used on these
things? where can I hear maybe a free preview or something? which artists
do people find do this best? thanks.
-samuel
I will, however, admit to not actually listening to the whole 18min track
every time I hear this CD, but IÆm not a big fan of sinewave stuff... :-)
- -
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:25:41 EST
From: Velaires@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Frank Zappa (No Zorn Content)
I'm a total Zappa fanatic of the first water, and all the stuff I like about
him is covered on YOU CAN'T DO THAT ON STAGE ANYMORE VOL 2: THE HELSINKI
CONCERT, a 1974 live show that is just incredible.
Best --
skip h
NP: Trio Los Panchos Con Eydie Gorme, NAVIDAD MEANS XMAS
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:49:41 +0000
From: Philippe Dupuis <dupuisph@nb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zappa (sorry if this is long)
hello,
- -Can anyone recommend some Frank Zappa albums that may
- -function as useful starting points for the newbie? Apologies
- -if this question has already been raised on the list.
i remember going through a whole year where the only thing
i would listen to was frank zappa. i wouldn't even want to
talk about music with anyone unless it was about frank zappa.
a few albums i liked where
UNCLE MEAT
my favorite zappa album. i like the early mothers album more
than anything he did afterwards. these are less slick and more
about mixing all his obsessions/ musical tastes in one bombastic
record of music. this one has great little instrumental pieces
that pin point exactly what i like about him. strange instruments
being put together to make a grand affair of the weird. too bad
this double album has 30 minutes or so of boring dialogue put
together for a film, one listen of that is enough and i've never
listened to it again. the first disk is fantastic and essential FZ.
HOT RATS
the first track called peaches in regalia is what started it all
for me. this album is probably the first you should get. all
the tracks are good, and save for a couple of long winded solos
(not really a bad thing when zap's playing) this album is
really well balanced. get this one for sure. captain beefheart
sings on track two (willie the pimp) and it's wonderful.
THE YELLOW SHARK
this is zappa getting the royal treatment when competant people
play his modern classical pieces. great music, great liner notes.
the best thing to get if you want to see his "classical" side.
LUMPY GRAVY
a library of sounds put together in a wild collage that includes
surreal dialogue with people that got stuffed in a piano and
where told to ramble on about pigs and ponies. might be a bit
much if your just getting into this kind of music. but i've found
that with time this album grows on you.
others that i like include ...
EARLY MOTHERS
We're Only in it for the Money
Burnt Weenie Sandwich
Weasels Ripped my Flesh
SYNCLAVIER
Civilization Phase III
Jazz from Hell
FZ Meets the Mothers of Prevention (the synclavier stuff in it
is fun while the rest, in my opinion, is kinda boring)
OTHERS THAT ARE OK
Chunga's Revenge
Grand Wazoo
Lost Episodes (i actually like this one alot)
Over-Nite Sensation
Apostrophe
Make a Jazz noise Here
DISSAPOINTING (to me anyways)
Freak Out
Fillmore East 1971 (avoid)
London Symphony Orchestra vol I & II
Joe's Garage
The Best Band you Never Heard in your Life
hope this helps.
again, sorry if this is too long,
martin dupuis
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:26:58 +0000
From: dan hill <dan@state51.co.uk>
Subject: Re: zappa
now why am i not surprised to find a lot of zappa fans here? ;)
and it can't just be alliterative coincidence of ploughing the same
section of record racks.
here's my opinion, fwiw:
like zorn, zappa was a talented musician, who enjoyed working across
a number of popular and unpopular genres, across a vast number of
albums and with a vast number of legendary groups (though personally
dominating the groups far more than zorn).
unlike zorn, the results weren't always that good.
in much of zappa's latter work, the "humour" leads several whole
albums astray. zappa knew this was a tricky area, constantly
questioning whether "humour belongs in music", though he always
tried. the satirical bite of the late-60s was perhaps his richest
lyrical/conceptual seam, and after the great disco/punk schism, he
struggled (as did many late-60s "counterculture" figures - perhaps as
the stereotypes became more fluid/less tangible and culture
fragmented into heterogeneous niches? - discuss. or not.)
leaving humour aside as it's *such* a subjective area, i second many
of the opinions expressed here. though i find it odd, given this
list's instrumental orientation, that no-one has mentioned the great
guitar-based collections - "shut up and play yer guitar" or "guitar".
these are utterly phenomenal works, for me anyway. zappa's playing
style is truly unique - a rare thing when 'everyone plays guitar'. a
peculiar extremely personal synthesis of johnny guitar watson and
mixolydian modes, astonishing feedback control, fucking the sound by
mounting pickups in the neck, playing 'inside' and 'outside'
seemingly effortlessly, furious 'sheets of sound' by either playing
ludicrously fast or employing phenomenal guitar tone ... they're
great records. but (there's often a "but" with zappa), your mileage
may vary, depending on your endurance settings for sitting through
hours of extravagant guitar solos, or the often 'ironic' backings
employed by FZ's crack troops (cod-reggae, cod-funk, cod-war ...).
other things that standout are the great early 70s jazz-rock albums,
"hot rats" and "burnt weeny sandwich". much of these stand up to
examination in the cold light of the year 2000's days. "hot rats" in
particular for its beefheart/wah-wah/backbeat smorgasbord title
track, and specifically for side two's "the gumbo variations" - a
great sprawling multi-vehicle pile-up of a funk jam featuring ian
underwood's sax and the late great don sugarcane harris on incendiary
electric violin (much more soulful than jean-luc ponty who zappa
often used in the same role). "burnt weeny sandwich" especially for
side two's 18-minute epic "the little house i used to live in",
featuring beautifully oblique piano from don preston, sugarcane
again, and phenomenally driven drumming by sometime tim buckley
sidekick art tripp.
the "you can't do that on stage anymore" series, as others have
suggested, is both a good introduction, and some of the highlights of
zappa's vast back catalogue. number two, "the helsinki concert" in
particular, especially to hear george duke at his best. perhaps some
of the finest moog playing ever?!??
"roxy and elsewhere" is from this same period/band (ish). and is also
extremely good jazz-influenced rock. an earthy, mucky kind of fusion
really. closer to tony williams lifetime than to return to forever,
perhaps. but with jokes. and with a bigger band. they often manage to
be messily abrasive and super tight at the same time.
last year's rykodisc roundup of some rarities ("mystery disk") is
worth listening to as well, to hear some tape experiments, and the
occasionally brilliant but often variable late60s mothers of
invention band at their sharpest. have a listen - i reviewed it for
motion here [ http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/177.html ]
i can also recommend much of "the yellow shark" for an intro to his
"classical" composition. i was listening to this yesterday,
bizarrely, and much of it is brilliant (the ensemble moderne, with a
couple of exceptions perform zappa's extremely complex, varese and
nancarrow influenced music to their much-vaunted high standards). a
couple of irksome points - the crowd is much too much in evidence.
and the narration of the two vocal pieces towards the end suffer from
poor voicing, but on the whole, it's top.
anyway, i'd putting a pin anywhere in the 1968-1975 era will perhaps
garner the best results. outside of that, you're heading heavily into
a pastiche-driven land of dodgy in-jokes, indulgent displays of
virtuosity, and hit 'n' miss composition.
[ ian penman wrote a mercilessly brilliant destruction of *this*
zappa, which had me wincing in recogition (available in his
collection of journalism published by serpent's tail). however, much
of zappa is dear to me in the way that childhood sweethearts often
are. an irrational desire, almost unconditional, which is extremely
forgiving. perhaps we all have these skeletons in our closet (i know
of a couple of people not a million miles away from this email, for
whom yes and todd rundgren play this role). in an extremely
confessional mode, i heard the opening bars of springsteen's "thunder
road" on the radio this morning, and my heart skipped. weird. i'll do
a million hail mary's, listen to francisco lopez, masada, john cage,
burnt friedman, and anti-pop consortium in quick succession until the
quirks of my soul are expunged. promise. ]
anyway, i'm writing in the light of my self-conscious zappa-fandom,
and trying to highlight a couple of things others haven't. they're in
a far more objective position to comment usefully,
hope this helps, though!
cheers,
dan.
- --
|||| dan hill [state51]
|||| new reviews on motion [14.12.2000]:
|||| mark springer | microstoria | jonathan coleclough | techno
animal vs dalek | koch-sch=FCtz-studer plus dj m. singe & dj i-sound |
fingathing | dan senn
|||| http://motion.state51.co.uk/
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #199
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