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Zorn List Digest       Sunday, October 22 2000       Volume 03 : Number 132



In this issue:
-
       Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)
       Re: Carl Stone (@ mp3.com)
       zorn/eye box set
       on-line cd stores
       Re: on-line cd stores
       Ulan Bator
       Re: Ulan Bator
       Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)
       Re: on-line cd stores
       Re: musicians on film
       Re: on-line cd stores
       Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)
       Re: completism( was  a new, similarly geeky topic)
       Re: on-line cd stores
       Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)
       Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)
       Re: on-line cd stores
       RE: douglas' a thousand evenings
       Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark)
       Re:  Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark)
       Completism etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:52:29 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)

At 04:06 PM 10/21/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>Alastair Wilson wrote:
>
>> So, a question for you all - when did *you* realise that your music
>> obsession was out of control?

I related the theme of this thread to my wife today, along with a couple of
the amusing anecdotes, and she said, "so what was your moment?"  I replied,
"my music obsession isn't out of control."  Peals of genuine laughter for
at least a minute.  Oh well.

>New question:  We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I
used
>to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could
>depend on it being interesting."  Does anyone out there in Zornlistland
>actually do this?  What label(s)?  And why?

Trente Oiseaux is the only current label where I'm near to completion.  In
addition to Bernhard Gunter, the label includes many of the sound artists I
continue to find fascinating, so I trust it to have interesting people I've
never heard of.  Selektion is moving up the list for the same reason,
except the original artist was Ralf Wehowsky (RLW).

ReR (formerly Recommended) still gives a pretty fascinating cross section
of stuff that used to be rock, and has done so for at least 20 years.

Metamkine and empreintes Digitales for interesting and inexpensive (for
Metamkine) musique concrete, as long as the description doesn't feature
vocals too prominently (I have a very hard time with poetry recitations in
any form).

I'm expecting a big shipment from Jon, so I guess Erstwhile is moving up
the list (as soon as I catch up on its back catalog).

Axiom was pretty good, it led me to Threadgill and some interesting world
musicians (as has RealWorld).

And at various times, Touch and Extreme have been reliable, although I
don't follow them as closely as I used to.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

- -- Satchel Paige

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:12:15 -0500
From: "sergio luque" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Carl Stone (@ mp3.com)

hello, FWIW:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/139/carl_stone.html
____________________________________________________________
sergio luque                            [e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:34:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: zorn/eye box set

there were a few people wondering about the box set mentioned earlier
(including myself) and i did a bit of research on the topic.  research
meaning i first checked the FAQ and here are the results of my countless
moments of research.....this took me literally 10's of seconds:

What's the deal with this 100 CD boxset?
In an issue of The Wire, there was an advertisement for a 100 CD boxset of
Zorn/Eye from their 1995 China tour. Supposedly, it is a limited edition of
1000 copies. Each CD will be variable length with the shortest at one second!
Word is that the release date has been pushed back to Fall 1997, my guess is
that is optimistic.
More recent info seems to indicate that the project has been cancelled.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: on-line cd stores

other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and
forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are
good to find weird, obscure stuff from.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:58:00 -0500
From: "Don Gunning" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: on-line cd stores

From: "Tom Gatzen" <[e-mail]>

> other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and
> forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are
> good to find weird, obscure stuff from.

Anomalous has weirdest, most obscure stuff I've seen.
www.anomalousrecords.com





- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ulan Bator

what ever happened to them? are they still together?
does anyone have any cds they wanna trade?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:21:23 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ulan Bator

In a message dated 10/21/00 7:09:31 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< what ever happened to them? are they still together? >>

I've actually never heard the band per se, but they just released a remix CD
EP, with tracks by Otomo, Erik M, Scanner, and Carl Stone. one guess as to
the two tracks I prefer...

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:36:28 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)

Steve Smith wrote:

<< New question:  We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I
used
to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could
depend on it being interesting."  Does anyone out there in Zornlistland
actually do this?  What label(s)?  And why? >>

hmm, this is an interesting question. there's a lot of labels that I get many
or most of the releases from (Durian, For 4 Ears, Matchless, Metamkine,
BOXmedia, Corpus Hermeticum, Mego, Alga Marghen, Amoebic are some that come
to mind), but the only one I can think of right now that I've bought every
single one of (assuming a minimum of 5 releases) is Paradigm, Clive Graham's
superb English label which is dually focused on documenting some of the more
interesting facets of the British scene (Morphogenesis and their individual
members, plus the Variations compilations), and unearthing super-obscure,
really great gems, previously only known to Steven Stapleton.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:00:19 -0400
From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: on-line cd stores

> other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and
> forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are
> good to find weird, obscure stuff from.

Rioux's (http://www.riouxs.com) are really great. They do price matching,
and can special order what you need. The two Polwechsel discs just showed up
on Friday, making me a very happy camper. Manifold
(http://www.manifoldrecords.com) is good for strange stuff, as is
Groundfault (http://www.groundfault.net/) both have lots of crazy noise,
sound collage, and truly out stuff. Prices seem good, but I've never ordered
from Groundfault. Anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Phil
Durrant, Thomas Lehn and Radu Malfatti "Beinhaltung" cd? After the
Polwechsel, and the Erstwhile records (a label I can consistently trust for
wicked stuff) I'd really like to get my hands on a copy. It seems to be out
of print though.

Cheers,
Nirav
AIM: Icefactory37
- --
OnNow- Today is rthe Day- In the Eyes of God (super evil......super good)
"Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time."  - R.
Buckminster Fuller




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:49:48 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: musicians on film

Another video that comes to mind is "Imagine the Sound" from 1981, with
Paul Bley, Bill Dixon, Archie Shepp and Cecil Taylor.

I understand that Ornette's "Made In America" was once officially
released on video. Unfortunately, the one that I paid a bundle for
on eBay turned out to be a near-inaudible bootleg. Grr.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:54:54 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: on-line cd stores

On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 03:55:09PM -0700, Tom Gatzen wrote:
> other than "other music, downtown music gallery , and
> forced exposure" what other music dealers on-line are
> good to find weird, obscure stuff from.

I do almost weekly snarfages from Anomalous Records's new release
email (as well as from Forced Exposure and, a little less frequently,
Downtown Music Gallery). Artist Shop (artists-shop.com) also has
consistently surprising stuff.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:57:37 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)

On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 07:36:28PM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
> Steve Smith wrote:
>
> << New question:  We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I
> used
> to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could
> depend on it being interesting."  Does anyone out there in Zornlistland
> actually do this?  What label(s)?  And why? >>

Come to think of it, waaaay back when I would do this for vinyl from
Artists House, Caravan of Dreams, Editions EG, Lovely Music,
and Obscure. I find myself getting just about everything on organ of
Corti of late too.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:51:21 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: completism( was  a new, similarly geeky topic)

Lately,
O'Rourke's Moikai label has been draining my resources. The stuff he puts out
is fantastc, diverse, and challenging. Plus, Drag City distributes it, making
it moderaetly easy to find.
Table of The Elements, at least, from my experience, has been consistent in
releasing quality material. It can be very challenging at times, however.
Also : Mille Plateaux, Trente Oiseaux, and Mego seem to be pretty consistant
with quality, although not extremely diverse at some times.

from,
]matt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:14:59 -0400
From: Eric Ong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: on-line cd stores

> from Groundfault. Anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Phil
> Durrant, Thomas Lehn and Radu Malfatti "Beinhaltung" cd? After the
> Polwechsel, and the Erstwhile records (a label I can consistently trust for
> wicked stuff) I'd really like to get my hands on a copy. It seems to be out
> of print though.

If I'm thinking of the right disc (weird cardboard white packaging, yes?),
then I wouldn't bother tracking this one down. I thought it was, well, kind
of bad. You'd find it very very underwhelming, even if you are an enthusiast
of quiet music.

- -eric.


np: Radu Malfatti/Harry Miller - "Bracknell Breakdown"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:44:49 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)

In a message dated 10/21/00 4:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< New question:  We've all heard or read stories where someone would say "I
used
 to buy everything on [insert label name here] just because I knew I could
 depend on it being interesting."  Does anyone out there in Zornlistland
 actually do this?  What label(s)?  And why? >>

I trust Winter and Winter and have spent lots of money to prove it.  Tzadik
gets a good chunk of my paycheck as well, though I make sure I at least read
the glowing descriptions contained on the website.  The unbridled enthusiasm
the label has for each of its releases is embarrasingly infectious.

Tom D.

________________________________________________
The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage
perhaps in music, because that art contains no material
to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value,
and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses.

               --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:14:57 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (and a new, similarly geeky topic)

In a message dated 10/21/00 9:39:37 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I find myself getting just about everything on organ of
Corti of late too. >>

how's the new Charlemagne Palestine disc?

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:36:57 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: on-line cd stores

In a message dated 10/21/00 10:18:35 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Phil
> Durrant, Thomas Lehn and Radu Malfatti "Beinhaltung" cd? After the
> Polwechsel, and the Erstwhile records (a label I can consistently trust for
> wicked stuff) I'd really like to get my hands on a copy. It seems to be out
> of print though.

If I'm thinking of the right disc (weird cardboard white packaging, yes?),
then I wouldn't bother tracking this one down. I thought it was, well, kind
of bad. You'd find it very very underwhelming, even if you are an enthusiast
of quiet music.  >>

I'd agree with underwhelming, although I'd stop well short of bad. Radu
Malfatti has increasingly explored the boundary between sound and silence
over the past few years, kind of improv's answer to Bernhard Gunter. the
problem is that when you insert numerous silences into your music, it's very
hard to keep any sort of momentum or continuity going. that's one of the
problems with the Fringes CD, the other being that it was mastered too
quietly. a better example of Malfatti's recent work is his CD on Edition
Wandelweiser, 2 33 minute pieces, one for solo trombone, one for string
quartet.

I'm releasing the second CD by the trio from the Fringes release in early
2001, and it's a much superior recording to the first one. it was recorded in
Ulrichsberg, Austria at a festival in 1999, and begins with the sound of rain
on the roof of the building (reminiscent of the Bailey/Tanaka CD). after a
few minutes, the musicians gradually start, and the rain stops, and the
occasional creak of the sun drying out the roof can be heard. as for the
music, while still very subdued, there's a real forward momentum to it that
continues through the entire hour. I'm pretty excited about it, actually.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:46:05 -0200
From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: douglas' a thousand evenings

Hi Zornheads,

Whit Schonbein wrote:

>i've listened to it about 4 or 5 times now.  it lacks the lyrical quality
>that made the first charms of the night sky so nice to my ears.  after 5
>listenings, the only song to which i can recall the melody is
>'goldfinger',

Well, I can also recall the haunting melody of "On our way home" (track 11),
a real hit at a first listening, with Klucevsek at his best (who reminds me
the sound of Argentinian accordion player Raul Barboza); "The little boy
with the sad eyes" (track 6) has a jazzy flavour (considering it's a Nat
Adderley's composition) that prick your ears very easily. And "A thousand
Evenings" (track 1) is another catching composition, in the vein of "Charms
of the night sky", the first track of the 1998 released album.


Alan Lankin wrote:



>I'm still absorbing "A Thousand Evenings," but it seems quite good so far.
>"The Branches" is especially good.

Seconded, especially "Part II" (track 3).

  I'm not as sure about the Jaki Byard
>tribute yet.  But in any case, Mark Feldman is fabulous throughout.  He
>sounds like he's going to explode...

Also seconded, though I enjoyed every musicians' performance so far.
All in all, and IMO, a wonderful, outstanding recording.

Later,

Hugo Linares
NP: Ernesto Baffa _Ernesto Baffa_ (Melopea Discos).




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:46:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark)

someone mentioned earlier about not knowing why they continued collecting
zappa material even after some of his 80's material.   i would just like to
say....what is wrong with his 80's material?   did you happen to catch the
'88 tour?   it doesn't get any better than that.   Frank, Ike Willis, Scott
Thunes, and Mike Keneally (mike is the man) all on one stage.    i am going
to stop before i turn this into a sales pitch for mike keneally albums
(www.keneally.com)  <----GO THERE!!!!

i saw Melt Banana tonight.  great show.

later, folks

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:52:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: What was I thinking? (a return comment about a zappa remark)

The Joe's Garage -through (roughly) - Them Or Us phase just didn't cut it for
me.  Too much vocal music, and too much cheap humor for my taste (although I
think the tune "Tinseltown Rebellion" is a gem).  I think things were not as
interesting (for my taste) until Frank discovered the Synclavier.  He seemed
to get more into the music end of things around that time.

As for the 88 band, I grant you they were as technically spotless a touring
band as Frank ever had, but there was something kind of monochromatic about
them for me.  They had all the notes under their hands, but I never felt like
they were as out on the edge of the music as say, (Ruth) Underwood and
company.  I thought FZ's best marriage of technique and character happened
with the 1974 band (documented on YOU CAN'T DO THAT ON STAGE ANYMORE Vol 2).
I also think his material was at a peak there.

best --
skip h

NP: Joe Bataan, SUBWAY JOE

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:08:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Neff)
Subject: Completism etc.

Hello,
         ...on the subject of collecting the complete discographies of
specific labels, I must mention that I've never been successful. The big
reason is due to limited funds, but another fly in the ointment is my
difficulty in focusing widespread interests. One day my big desire would
be current free jazz, a few days later I'd be jonesing for more country
blues collections, then '60's psyche artifacts, various jazz reissues,
indie rock staples, folk and classical, etc. When ZYX reissued the ESP
catalog a few years ago, I was working on collecting it all, but I ran
into a financial snag that interrupted me. Now that it's being
reactivated I should finally succeed in having the complete
documentation of a label at my fingertips.

    ...on the subject of musicians on film, I'd like to mention that my
first exposure to free music came from video, a portion of a improv from
the Knitting Factory by William Parker, Milford Graves, and Peter
Brotzmann. It was featured on a Atavistic/Chemical Imbalance magazine
video comp. called "Mouthful of Sweat". Needless to say, I was totally
blown away by the improv, particularly by Graves aggressive drumming.

     ...last, someone asked for opinions of Godspeed You Black Emperor!
and Mecca Normal. Previous posts seemed to sum up GYBE! rather well, but
nobody mentioned Mecca Normal, so here's my two cents...i haven't seen
them live, but the Mecca Normal recordings I've heard ("Calico Kills the
Cat"/"Water Cuts My Hands" CD on Matador, "Cardboard Box House of Love"
7 inch on K) stand as very worthy releases of a rather unique sound.
They are a duo comprised of vocalist/songwriter Jean Smith and guitarist
David Lester. The sound is a not easily categorized gush of feminist
lyricism, expansive/abrasive vocalizing, and distorted yet loose and
melodic guitar moves. I've heard that they've mellowed somewhat, but the
recordings listed above certainly pushed some envelopes upon their
release. So, IMO, go see them....

I remain....

Joseph

"There's no boundary line to art"   Charlie Parker


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #132
*******************************


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