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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #97
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, October 5 2000 Volume 03 : Number 097
In this issue:
-
Re: Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content)
Dauner
Re: Prelapse
Re: list demographics
Re: list demographics
Re: Prelapse
re: new random acoustics releases
schiaffini
Re: Age
percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long)
Re: Prelapse
Re: Prelapse
naked city line-up (was: Re: Prelapse)
RE: list demographics/ violin
RE: Metal (groups with female vocalists)
Re: new Random Acoustics releases
Re: list demographics
Re:Uncle Bill's the Minute Maid
Re: list demographics
Re: percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long)
Re: Laswell/ pop/ Sigmund
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 23:22:29 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content)
On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 11:43:02PM -0400, User384726@aol.com wrote:
> Handy wrote 104 symphonies and Mozart wrote 41 but today most composers can't
Symphonies by W C Handy? Those would be worth hearing!
:-)
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 06:09:45 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Subject: Dauner
NP - Wolfgang Dauber amazing "The Oimels"
Somebody knows about the possible CD reedition of the notorious "Output"
recorded in 1970 for ECM or "Free Action" from 1967 /Saba/ with JL Ponty,
Dudek, Weber. ??
Jerzy Matysiakiewicz
jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:21:24 EDT
From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com
Subject: Re: Prelapse
i don't know much of the story behind any unreleased naked city compositions,
however i do know they were a local band in boston, which covered naked city
songs. zorn heard them and signed them to play their own original music. to
my understanding they were first and foremost a hardcore band and you can
hear it on the album...it is very crushing. and there are moments when it
could very well BE naked city playing and i wouldn't be able to tell the
difference. i definitely recommend Prelapse to fans of naked city and such.
i'd give a better review, but i am still stuck on my new Mike Keneally cd.
any fan of frank zappa should definitely check it out. try:
www.keneally.com it will give you a link on the page to a place where you
can download "Live in Japan" i promise you will be hooked. anywho.
definitely check out Prelapse.
dave
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:25:43 EDT
From: XMudhoneyX@aol.com
Subject: Re: list demographics
I'm 18 and I dressed like a woman once and much to my disapointment, I tore
my pantyhose. . .but it made me feel sexy in a strung-out 5 dollar whore
kinda way.
Not that you'd care.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:37:05 EDT
From: SOUPBEARD@aol.com
Subject: Re: list demographics
In a message dated 10/5/00 12:26:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
XMudhoneyX@aol.com writes:
<< I'm 18 and I dressed like a woman once and much to my disapointment, I
tore
my pantyhose. . .but it made me feel sexy in a strung-out 5 dollar whore
kinda way. >>
ALL JOKING ASIDE, THIS IS WHAT MUSIC IS ALL ABOUT
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:08:00 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Prelapse
To the person asking about the Prelapse CD, yes, about half of the tunes are
written by Zorn and are unreleased Naked City compositions. And Zorn also
plays on these tunes. Their other tunes are less Naked City-ish, but still
very strange (actually they're probably stranger generally)...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:52:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: re: new random acoustics releases
just wanted to make sure this painful (in a good way) pun didn't get
missed by anyone:
"Schiaffini, Giancarlo
Tuba Libre"
ouch! ;) i think its a tuba full of rum and coke...
29 and counting,
whit
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:30 +0200
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <f.martinelli@comune.pisa.it>
Subject: schiaffini
Whit Schonbein wrote
>
> just wanted to make sure this painful (in a good way) pun didn't get
> missed by anyone:
>
> "Schiaffini, Giancarlo
> Tuba Libre"
>
> ouch! ;) i think its a tuba full of rum and coke...
>
For years Giancarlo devoted a lot of time and money going in the summer to
Cuba to teach in music schools, collecting and bringing there used
instruments, and such. What could one expect from someone who was the
soloist of choice of that other Commie, Luigi Nono, for his Prometheus? (to
be performed Nov. 9 in Milan, by the way).
promo on
His latest composition for the Italian Instabile orchestra, called Litania
Sibilante (anagram of the band's name), is the title-track for the Cd just
published by Enja, and it's a fantastic piece where snippets of big band
jazz clash with violin and accordeon vaguely klezmer-sounding. Special
guest
Antonello Salis on accordeon.
Mail me off list for more info...
promo off
Francesco
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Goryl?= <ngoryl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Age
> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:59:53 -0500 (EST)
> From: Adam Taylor Tierney <attierne@indiana.edu>
> Subject: Re: Age
>
> I'm 18, which appears to be younger than most people
> on this list. Any
> grade-schoolers?
Oh, and here's me thinking that I'm the youngest on
the list. I turn 20 in November. And I too am male.
I'm a first year Uni student, so I probably do about
as much work as a grade-schooler. Does that count?
~Nick.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:52:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>
Subject: percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long)
On listening recently to Paul Lytton's (percussion/
live electronics) and Ken Vandermark's (reeds) duo
ENGLISH SUITES (Wobbly Rail) and Lytton's and
Wachsmann's brilliant SOME OTHER SEASON (ECM), I
become interested in how the percussion/live
electronics apparatus is set up. Photos of Lytton's
kit (incl. electronics) from the early-mid Seventies
(the EMANEM duos with Evan Parker) show a huge
battery, a bit like Tony Oxley's kit from same era;
but this reveals little. Lytton himself downplays the
complexity of his electronics from a theoretical
standpoint. (He modestly mentioned a few contact mics
and a ring modulator to me after a performance once,
and in the liners to SEASON he says: "It's a slight
misnomer to apply the term "electronics" to my
equipment, because apart from a very prehistoric ring
modulator and a wah-wah pedal, my instrument is
basically just wires and pieces of metal that are
amplified. It functions on the principles of electric
guitars --- just very quiet sounds that are amplified,
sounds one normally wouldn't hear otherwise.")
My questions: could anyone who's seen him use
electronics and percussion --- tabletop or otherwise
- --- give me an idea of what the set-up looks like, and
how he performs in it? What sounds does it elicit?
The visual experience must be so much different, since
on record the subtleties of the man's incredible
extended technique and the organic use of
already-physical electronics make his process so
blurred. I end up refusing to imagine the physical,
performative aspect of what's happening, because I
become distracted and confused. Not as much "who's
doing what, and with what?" as "what the hell's he
doing?" In this regard, I can empathize with
jazz-drummer friends who are knocked out and rendered
helpless by, say, Gerry Hemingway or Ed Thigpen.
Plus: how have other percussionists you've seen
handled this kind of process-material integration, in
a live setting? This is not the kind of thing I get
to see much. Vicarious, I am.
Almost done: can anyone describe and/or recommend
Lovens older (preferably in-print) catalog, including
the duos with Paul Lovens on Po Torch vinyl?
Electronics there, methinks.
Finally: Speaking of Paul "Snappy Dresser" Lovens, has
anyone yet seen him on tour with Eugene Chadbourne, or
heard their new double-album on Leo? I'm going to New
Orleans to see two nights next week, but you can spoil
the surprise if you want.
Thanks for reading/responding, regards,
- -----s
NP: Maryanne Amacher, SOUND CHARACTERS (Tzadik)
(Yah! My ears are on fire! Oh my god it hurts
;>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 10:11:13 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Prelapse
SOUPBEARD@aol.com wrote:
> and there are moments when it
> could very well BE naked city playing and i wouldn't be able to tell the
> difference. i definitely recommend Prelapse to fans of naked city and such.
>
hi there.
let me first say that i only know the prelapse tracks from zorn's "music for
children" cd.
and if those do in any way compare to their avant release, i personally would
NOT EVEN TOUCH IT!
i can only speak for myself, obviously, but i would quite surely ALWAYS be able
to tell the difference between naked city and prelapse. the sound of prelapse
just misses something (when playing zorn's compositions, at least). i can't put
my finger on what exactly it is; but it simply misses something very big-time...
patRice
np: webern, complete works
nr: schmitt, tokyo tango
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:44:06 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Prelapse
> to tell the difference between naked city and prelapse. the sound of
prelapse
> just misses something (when playing zorn's compositions, at least). i
can't put
> my finger on what exactly it is; but it simply misses something very
big-time...
Well it's pretty hard to top those Naked City guys, particularly Baron and
Frisell. And remember, Zorn wrote the tunes especially for them. To me,
Naked City was always about the mixing of very different players to form an
interesting whole (Frisell-country/surf/jazz, Horvitz-funk, etc.) while it
seems that the members of Prelapse are thinking more on the same wavelength
as each other.
Oh, and another thing, the fact that Zorn never released the tunes with
Naked City, it probably says something about them being at least a little
bit less important to him than ones that were released...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:03:14 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: naked city line-up (was: Re: Prelapse)
Julian wrote:
> Well it's pretty hard to top those Naked City guys, particularly Baron and
> Frisell.
hi julian,
personally i would not point out those two guys. i think what made naked city
so absolutely fan-fucking-tastic was the complete line-up. i think each and
every one had his place in the band, and could not have been replaced. i feel
they were a line-up made in heaven - including baron and frisell, but also the
others, who i think were just as important.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:19:38 +0200
From: Pascal Cortes <Pascal.Cortes@dstu.univ-montp2.fr>
Subject: RE: list demographics/ violin
Hi all,
Well... for your stats, here is a 29 y. o. shortish french boy, living on
the (usually) sunny mediterranean coast, and trying to finish his %#=A7.~=A4
PhD on tectonics....=20
.....and currently playing "My Funny Valentine", from the Mat Maneri
Quintet "Acceptance" on HatOlogy.... The track is actually a Maneri
(vioIa)/Randy Peterson (dms) duo, and I just love it... =20
Anyone's got comments/recommendations for duo or trio albums with Maneri
and/or Randy Peterson/Ed Schuller ? I've only recently learned that such
albums had been released (including some on Leo, I think) and I'm willing
to know more...
Thanks.
Pascal.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 06:40:17 -0400
From: Ian Farrell <ifarrell@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Metal (groups with female vocalists)
Oh, man! How could I forget THE PLASMATICS!!!!
The lead singer also had solo albums under the
title of WOW (her initials: Wendy O. Williams)
http://www.plasmatics.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 07:28:59 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: new Random Acoustics releases
At 08:37 PM 10/4/00 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>here are descriptions for the four new Random Acoustics releases I mentioned
>a few days ago. Verge (www.vergemusic.com) has them in now, and I should get
>a bunch of the solo Lehn in next week sometime.
Not that we don't like buying cds from you, but Cadence distributed RA
before. Are they not on the distribution list for the label this time
around?
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:49:12 +0200 (CEST)
From: Leon Spaans <leons@casema.net>
Subject: Re: list demographics
Okay, okay,
Name: Leon
Age: 25
Sex: Male
Profession: Programmer
City: The Hague (The Netherlands)
Fav.Album: John Zorn - Bar Kokhba, Tom Waits - Bone Machine, Miles Davis -
l'Ascencoeur pour l'Echafaud, Sonic Youth - Sister
Mmmm, that felt good ;-)
Bye,
Leon
>
> Tom
> 31
> Male
> Teacher/tutor
> New York
> np: Miles David Chronicles, Disc two
> nr: J.D. Salinger's "Franny and Zooey"
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:52:47 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:Uncle Bill's the Minute Maid
>From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
>Laswell
>was never particularly "avant-garde" in my books and he's
>not really a technically adept bass player either, but I
>still love the Material, Last Exit, and Massacre stuff.
>But no matter which way you slice or dice it, his
>reconstructions are just some lameass knockoff shit, okay
>if you need some easy background cocktail muzak intro to
>the music of Miles, Marley or Ireland, but why the hell
>don't you just listen to the real thing? If you're
>interested in dubwise stuff, you should be checkin' out
>Scratch, King Tubby, Jack Ruby, Joe Gibbs*, Mad Scientist,
>or Adrian Sherwood On-U Sound productions. What Teo Macero
>did with Miles (and Mingus) was a lot more inspired,
>unique and involved than these 'reconstructions', quite
>seriously, you could knock one of those off in an
>afternoon with an EQ and an effects rack, and that to me
>is precisely what they sound like! Stop wasting your
>valuable listening time! But, of course, all that is just
>my opinion...
Oh brother can you spare me a lecture. One nice 20-year old kid from
Argentina writes to ask where he can get some more "reconstructions" because
he's enjoyed a batch of four or so, so I supply him with some other options.
And for that, we get a crusade in aesthetics from someone so hung up in
his authenticity rhetoric that he can't see straight. I love this
presumptuous education I always get when I mention Laswell in a dub context
and they speak as if it so self-evident that he's blaspheming a tradition I
presumably have no clue about. Give me a break. What makes you think I
haven't heard this stuff?
I knew better than to get involved in yet another one of these kinds of
useless discussions. But I did anyway. Every few months or so, we always
get a second rate iconoclast with an axe to grind who decides to make
Laswell his toilet of the week with all the resounding flatulence
vociferously bounding off the porcelain. And I'm left shaking my head,
perplexed, wondering why such misdirected attentions aren't more
productively placed. It's all really, really boring actually. Been trotted
out a million times usually with little evidence of any kind. Just crappy
impressions. Go play your Hotel California and leave us alone.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:29:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: list demographics
I'm all for all forms of self-expression (sexual and
otherwise) and believe in the right of anyone to
express his or her opinions in any forum.
BUT aren't these imitation personal ads and cross
dressing experiences getting a little far away from
the *musical* purpose of this list?
Ken Waxman
(Who thought endless lists of rock instrumentalists
were bad enough)
- --- XMudhoneyX@aol.com wrote:
> I'm 18 and I dressed like a woman once and much to
> my disapointment, I tore my pantyhose. . .but it
made me feel sexy in a strung-out 5 dollar whore kinda
way.
> Not that you'd care.
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:52:55 -0400
From: "Michael Berman" <mberman@his.com>
Subject: Re: percussion + electronics (cf. Lytton) (sorry, long)
: can anyone describe and/or recommend
> Lovens older (preferably in-print) catalog, including
> the duos with Paul Lovens on Po Torch vinyl?=20
I have two:=20
The Inclined Stick. (PoTorch4) solo. but produced, edited and engineered =
by lovens. 1979. all improvised. sez: misc. percussion and =
live-electronics. =20
and The Fetch w/ Lovens. (PoTorch8) 1984. also free improv. also listed =
as percussion and live-electronics. this one complete unedited =
performances recorded at the Improv. Symposium in Pisa and the (evans) =
Parker Project in London, '80 and '81.
Both I recall being great fascinating albums with all sorts of textures =
and nuances, but I must admit I haven't pulled them out in a long while, =
so I now must do my homework. I believe I picked them both up from =
Cadence, don't know if they're still in print.
mike
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:24:41 +0100
From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Laswell/ pop/ Sigmund
Wow, there's been a lot of traffic here in the last few days ...
>> don't ya think?), I would rather listen to musicians
>> performing their own compositions, or as in the case of
>> the much exampled Big Gundown, giving a unique new twist
>> to the material...just play yer gitar there, Bill
I don't mean to be rude, but this shows how much effort you put
into understanding Laswell's work: none. Laswell's a bass
player. Regardless of that, Laswell *is* giving a unique new
twist to the material he reconstructs ... and in the case of
the Miles Davis remixes, the point is obviously that there
is no original version. Macero's version is just as valid as
Laswell's one, as the original recordings feature endless studio
jamming by the band which was then comprised by Macero into
song-like structures. On IN A SILENT WAY, the first track
has the first 5 minutes or so repeated at the end of the track
... so please don't tell us that Laswell spent five minutes
doing his remixes and Macero worked months on them. If you're
so sure that these remixes can be done with two turntables within
such a short amount of time, then why don't you try it yourself?
It's the same as people saying that anyone could play like all
these avant-garde players because they can't hit a right note ...
if these people are so sure about that, why don't they do it
themselves? They'd see that it's not as easy as they think it is.
OK, I'm also a bit shocked that no one really started discussing
this high-brow-low-brow-hierarchy ... who says that pop stuff is
intrinsically inferior to jazz or avantgarde music? OK, you
said you don't want to impose such a hierarchy here but you did
anyway. Different kinds of music require different skills ...
I'm pretty sure that many avantgarde drummers couldn't play a
"straight" rock song because they'd play way too much or way
too complex or whatever. That doesn't make them bad drummers,
but it doesn't make "straight" drummers superior or inferior
drummers as well. Personally, as much as I enjoy noisy and
avantgarde stuff, I sometimes think that it's a dead end musically.
Every kind of music is valid and none is better or worse than
all the others. (I don't mean to attack anyone here, it's just
pleading for understanding, or so.)
Well, and there's this Sigmund guy. I don't really sympathize with
him, but then I don't really get upset about him either. I think
some of you are probably a bit overreacting, don't you think so?
I mean, in all my years on this list I've rarely seen such hostile
personal remarks aimed towards a person on the list (as far as
I remember, I've *never* seen something like this). He's expressing
his opinion as everyone else does, and I can't see why his
one-liners are so much worse than the ongoing jokes about age and
clothes etc ...
Kind regards,
- Chris (22).
NP: Godsmack, GODSMACK (1998).
___________________________________________________________________
** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de **
** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil **
Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn
The Herbie Hancock Mailing List
___________________________________________________________________
"When I came home I expected a surprise
and there was no surprise for me,
so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #97
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