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Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, October 3 2000       Volume 03 : Number 091



In this issue:
-
       Re:
       Odp: Re:...and organs
       Seifert and Polish Jazz
       ilhan mimaroglu
       Re: ilhan mimaroglu
       Re: ilhan mimaroglu
       Re: ilhan mimaroglu
       Re: Metal
       pop sitars
       Re: Metal
       Re: Metal
       quick logic lesson for our pal siggy
       zorn uptown, no zorn content
       Re:Bill Laswell's Reconstructions
       Re: Metal
       brief history lesson (sorry, siggy)
       Re: Sax-bass duos
       Re: brief history lesson (sorry, siggy)
       Re: ilhan mimaroglu
       Re: zorn uptown, no zorn content
       Re[2]: zorn uptown, no zorn content
       Beatles issues (culture)
       Re: zorn uptown, no zorn content

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 07:32:35 -0400
From: "Risser Family" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:

> Sigmund Nonanima sez that he know this may all seem
> personal, but it's not, it's truly something that bugs
> him, and he's often seen weeping in frustration when
> in the presence of Beatle idolators.
>
> Sigmund's gonna get kicked off the list, isn't he?

Nobody's gonna get anyone kicked off the list buddy, but remember that you
aren't talking to a bunch of sixty year olds who collect every goddamn
sneeze the Beatles ever recorded and call it "genius".  These are true
long-range, musical people who have a wide variety of tastes, experiences
and opinions.  So, these are the people who AREN"T falling for the hype.
Nobody here is gonna back, say, Britney Spears or Celine Dion, the way they
back the Beatles, just because it's the popular thing to do.  If they say
the Beatles have strengths and things worth listening to, next to Zorn and
Merzbow and the Vandemark Five, it's probably because they do.

That's all.

Peter


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:52:18 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Re:...and organs

|
| The same Dave Stewart that played in the first Bruford's band along with
| Jeff Berlin And Allan Holdsworth? I did not like the kbds sound on those
| albums
| Marcin Gokieli


Then listen "Arzachel" and change your opinion.
Kupisz u Lesniewskiego w Megadiscu

Jerzy


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:50:31 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Seifert and Polish Jazz

- ----- Wiadomo=B6=E6 oryginalna -----
Od: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Do: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>;
<[e-mail]>
Wys=B3ano: 3 pa=BCdziernika 2000 10:45
Temat: Odp: Re:violin


|
| Hi (Jerzy, milo spotkac rodaka),
| I've heard that Seifert has recorded an album with Scofield, deJohnette=
,
and
| some famous bassist (maybe Eddie Gomez). Has anybody heard it? Is it
| avialable?
| Marcin Gokieli


Yez Marcin /czesc ziomku/

Seifert has recorded an album "Passion" with Scofield, Gomez and de
Johnette. It's stil inavailable on CD.
Only available material that I know is "Solo Violin" , two pieces on "Pol=
ish
All Stars - Jazz Jamboree '69" /cover disc to Jazzi Magazine tego lobuza
Sobuli/ - Seifert plays only saxophone and "We'll Remember Komeda" with
Stanko, Urbaniak, Dudziak, Attila Zoller, Roman Dylag, Peter Giger and Ar=
men
Halburian.
Also one piece on the Oregon's compilation on Vanguard records.
Many masterpieces of Polish Jazz from 6TS and 7TS, even 8TS, are still no=
t
available on CD's, what really pissed me of. Pamietasz pewnie serie "Poli=
sh
Jazz", czemu jej w calosci nie ma na cedesach ?? Cholera czlowieka bierze.

Jerzy


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:10:54 +0100
From: Peter Marsh <[e-mail]>
Subject: ilhan mimaroglu

thought this might be the best place to ask...

anyone know anything about ilhan mimaroglu and more specifically a tape
piece by him called (i think) 'le tombeau d'edgar poe'?  i heard it at
an impressionable age (a few years ago) after buying an album called
'electronic music' in a junk shop. as it had a vaguely psychedelic cover
i naturally assumed it would contain music along the lines of tangerine
dream or klaus schulze. Instead, it was full of early musique concrete
and electronics by the likes of walter carlos and it scared me shitless,
but this one track (which i used to play to distraction - made a change
from yes) still remains lodged in the back of my head, despite the
disappearance of the record from my collection some years ago. i think
mimaroglu went on to be a jazz producer and did some stuff for mingus in
the 70's and maybe wrote some proper music for people with stringed
instruments and suits, but this piece was a wonder -  made in the early
60s and constructed entirely from a recording of mallarme's poem.  i'm
sure future sound of london sampled it a while back too.

any help in tracking it down gratefully appreciated....

cheers


peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:43:08 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu

This reminds me: I've also been looking out for some Mimaroghlu -- I
remember an album of his named "Wings of the Delirious Demon" that
blew me away ages ago.

I vaguely recall that he ran the Finnadar album (on which there were
also two albums I'd love to find again: Karen Phillips's
"Spillihpnerak" and "Sleepers", a collection of lullabies by the
likes of Pauline Oliveros, Daniel Goode, Annea Lockwood, TOm
Johnson, etc.).

Clues?

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:32:52 +0200
From: "Robert van Heumen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu

peter,

mimaroglu is great! i only heard one cd with a collection of electronic
(tape) and acoustic stuff called 'criminal record', and it is amazing... got
it at the new york city library. never heard about 'le tombeau d'edgar poe'
though.
do you know about any other cd's that are available?

robert

..r.o.b.e.r.t.v.a.n.h.e.u.m.e.n.
..h.t.t.p.:././.h.a.r.d.h.a.t.a.r.e.a...c.o.m.   http://hardhatarea.com

..r.e.c.o.m.m.e.n.d.e.d.m.u.s.i.c.a.n.d.n.o.n.m.u.s.i.c.
.....f.o.e.h.n..h.i.d.d.e.n.c.i.n.e.m.a.s.o.u.n.d.t.r.a.c.k......c.i.n.e.m.
a.t.i.c..m.u.s.i.c..s.o.u.n.d..n.o.i.r.
.....v./.a..b.e.a.t.a.t.c.i.n.e.c.i.t.t.a.v.o.l.u.m.e.1......r.a.u.n.c.h.y.
e.r.o.t.i.c..i.t.a.l.i.a.n..f.i.l.m.m.u.s.i.c.
.....s.u.p.e.r._.c.o.l.l.i.d.e.r..h.e.a.d.o.n......t.e.c.h.n.o.f.u.n.k.
.....e.l.e.c.t.r.o.n.i.c.e.y.e..n.e.u.r.o.m.e.t.r.i.k......s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.
c.h.n.o.
.....r.i.c.h.a.r.d.h.k.i.r.k..a.g.e.n.t.s.w.i.t.h.f.a.l.s.e.m.e.m.o.r.i.e.s
.....s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.c.h.n.o.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:34:50 +0200
From: "Robert van Heumen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu

> This reminds me: I've also been looking out for some Mimaroghlu -- I
> remember an album of his named "Wings of the Delirious Demon" that

that one's on the cd i named (criminal record)...

..r.o.b.e.r.t.v.a.n.h.e.u.m.e.n.
..h.t.t.p.:././.h.a.r.d.h.a.t.a.r.e.a...c.o.m.   http://hardhatarea.com

..r.e.c.o.m.m.e.n.d.e.d.m.u.s.i.c.a.n.d.n.o.n.m.u.s.i.c.
.....f.o.e.h.n..h.i.d.d.e.n.c.i.n.e.m.a.s.o.u.n.d.t.r.a.c.k......c.i.n.e.m.
a.t.i.c..m.u.s.i.c..s.o.u.n.d..n.o.i.r.
.....v./.a..b.e.a.t.a.t.c.i.n.e.c.i.t.t.a.v.o.l.u.m.e.1......r.a.u.n.c.h.y.
e.r.o.t.i.c..i.t.a.l.i.a.n..f.i.l.m.m.u.s.i.c.
.....s.u.p.e.r._.c.o.l.l.i.d.e.r..h.e.a.d.o.n......t.e.c.h.n.o.f.u.n.k.
.....e.l.e.c.t.r.o.n.i.c.e.y.e..n.e.u.r.o.m.e.t.r.i.k......s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.
c.h.n.o.
.....r.i.c.h.a.r.d.h.k.i.r.k..a.g.e.n.t.s.w.i.t.h.f.a.l.s.e.m.e.m.o.r.i.e.s
.....s.a.m.p.l.e.t.e.c.h.n.o.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:23:56 -0400
From: Ian Farrell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Metal

The first two are what one would call "Metal" but the rest also satisfy the
necessary quotient of "heavy" in varying degrees/qualities to fall into the
realm of "Heavy Noise That Would Satisfy Most Metal Heads"...

Metal:
Crisis, Kittie

Digital Hardcore:
Lolita Storm, Atari Teenage Riot, Ec8or

Early 90s heavy alternative:
Painteens, L7, Lunachicks, Hole, Babes in Toyland, Sonic Youth (especially
the two albums Dirty and Goo), Free Kitten (Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth and
Yoshimi from Boredoms making wacked out heavy noise), Boss Hogg, Silverfish,
My Bloody Valentine

Late 90s:
Butter 08 (members of Spencer Davis Group and Cibo Mato), Donnas

Japanese:
Melt Banana, Sekiri, Shonen Knife

Late 70s Los Angeles Hardcore Punk:
X

Late 70s London Punk:
X-ray Spex

Avant:
Diamanda Galas

Other:
Runaways, Joan Jett, Pretenders, Janis Joplin


- ----------------------------------------
From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:07:34 -0400
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Metal


Can any one recommend good metal bands with female lead singers?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:27:41 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: pop sitars

>And delerium out of england is selling a six disc anthology
>of Sitarized 60's pop and psychedelia....I drool...

Any more info?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:39:30 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
Subject: Re: Metal

Ian Farrell wrote:

>Late 90s:
>Butter 08 (members of Spencer Davis Group and Cibo Mato)

Now *that* could've been an interesting record! However, it was a member of
the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion...

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM
http://radiofreenorman.20m.com



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:48:18 -0400
From: Ian Farrell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Metal

woops... typing a little too fast there...
I also forgot Patti Smith and The Breeders!

> From: [e-mail] (Your Imaginary Friend)
> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:39:30 -0600
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Metal
>
> Ian Farrell wrote:
>
>> Late 90s:
>> Butter 08 (members of Spencer Davis Group and Cibo Mato)
>
> Now *that* could've been an interesting record! However, it was a member of
> the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion...
>
> Jon M.
>
> _________________________
> Radio Free Norman
> 96.7 FM
> http://radiofreenorman.20m.com
>
>
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:58:15 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: quick logic lesson for our pal siggy

>>Their music far surpassed most rock music at the time
>>in the realms of harmony, melody, production,
>>orchestration, diversity/eclecticism, and creative
>>output.

>THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION.


'most' does not imply 'all'

kg



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:53:47 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: zorn uptown, no zorn content

SSmithSaid:
Monday, October 16, 8 p.m., Merkin Concert Hall, 129 West 67th St.... as I
recall...  Masada Quartet, Chamber Ensemble, and String Trio.

steve, i hope you're right, but i think you're not. i don't think the "classic
quartet" are on the bill, just bar khoba and the trio.

advance tix are available for $20.

kg
np: anthony braxton - 3 compositions of new jazz



- -

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 2000 15:08:44 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Bill Laswell's Reconstructions

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:23:09 +0200 (DST) Emmanouil
Papagiannakis <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>What else reconstructions are out there?
>
I just don't get it! Why not listen to the real thing? Or
do you prefer to hear Wynton Marsalis play Louis
Armstrong, Randy Hansen play Jimi Hendrix, etc. Why stop
at the monkey when you can go straight to the organ
grin

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:12:49 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steve Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Metal

[dejeopardizing]
>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Farrell <[e-mail]> writes:

    Ian> ---------------------------------------- From: "&c."
    Ian> <[e-mail]> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:07:34 -0400
    Ian> To: <[e-mail]> Subject: Metal

    Ian>> Can any one recommend good metal bands with female lead
    Ian>> singers?

    Ian> Late 70s Los Angeles Hardcore Punk: X

X was, at least until their first album was released, certainly more
hardcore than, say, the Go-Go's, but I guess not as hardcore (at least
in terms of attitude), as the Bags (aka Alice Bag Band) or Nervous
Gender (but maybe they didn't have a female singer, I don't remember).
The really hardcore bands, though, were the Germs, Black Flag, Circle
Jerks (at least the Germs had a (nonsinging) female bass player).
Though at the time, I don't think any of this was called metal...

- --Steve Berman


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:14:25 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: brief history lesson (sorry, siggy)

The Absurd Bastard said:
I think one of the reasons no one (re: popular mind)
remembers Zappa/Mothers albums like Beatles albums, is
because people don't like to have their hypocrisies
shoved in their face, as Zappa was wont to do.

*no one* remembers the mothers? hmmmm. some people even remember the fugs.
fretting about what you consider "the popular mind" will give you wrinkles, my
young friend.

i don't think that people choose not to know music which, if they did know it,
would shove their hypocrisies in their face. another logical failing, but i used
to teach logic to 22-year-old punks like you and i'm in a forgiving mood this
morning. the real reasons is as follows: zappa 1) didn't start off with a wide
base of popularity on which to build his experimentation, b) was a damn lot
weirder'n'fringier than the liverpool lads, and iii) was a freakin' smartass, a
quality which usually doesn't have much of a shelf life. any shelley berman fans
out there?

nevertheless, cricket, keep chomping at the bit. we like the occasional upstart
around here, or at least we should, or at least i do. but then, i still think
the loser sneeze is funny.

kg
np: kahil el'zabar's ritual trio - africa n'dea blues



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:13:45 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sax-bass duos

Yes, but there is (at least) one sax/bass track on one of the live
records of the great, great Mingus 5tet.  I can't remember the name
of the tune they play but it's beautiful.

Dan Hewins



At 4:07 AM -0400 10/2/00, [e-mail] wrote:
>How could I forget?  Dolphy/Mingus--a great combo that never recorded as a
>duo. ...Actually, I don't believe Mingus ever recorded a duo album.
>
>-


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:40:57 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: brief history lesson (sorry, siggy)

On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:14:25AM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> any shelley berman fans
> out there?

Yes! "Inside Shelley Berman" and "Outside Shelley Berman" were two of
my favorite albums when I was a kid.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: 3 Oct 2000 15:09:35 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ilhan mimaroglu

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:43:08 -0400 Joseph Zitt
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>This reminds me: I've also been looking out for some
Mimaroghlu --

Le Tombeau d'Edgar Allen Poe is on a Finnadar LP entitled
Face The Windmills, Turn Left, no CD issue that I've seen
yet, he also did an interested jazz/electronic mix with
Freddie Hubbard called 'Sing Me A Song of Song My', that
came out on Atlantic, that one might have had a short CD
existence...he was the jazz A&R person for Atlantic
Records, produced a number of straight jazz dates...Le
Tombeau is one of the great tape electronic works!

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:13:06 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn uptown, no zorn content

[e-mail] wrote:

> SSmithSaid:
> Monday, October 16, 8 p.m., Merkin Concert Hall, 129 West 67th St.... as I
> recall...  Masada Quartet, Chamber Ensemble, and String Trio.
>
> steve, i hope you're right, but i think you're not. i don't think the "classic
> quartet" are on the bill, just bar khoba and the trio.

Kurt is correct.  The quartet is not on the bill, just the trio and Bar Kokhba.
Sorry for getting hopes up... :-P

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - cars on the road outside the window...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:28:14 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: zorn uptown, no zorn content

>Steve Smith
>NP - cars on the road outside the window...

I once saw on interview with Cage where he said that was his favorite thing to
listen to...




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:44:40 -0700
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Beatles issues (culture)

I just want to put my 2=A2 with respect to the Beatles.  And this might have
been said already on this list.

As for someone in their mid-forties, The Beatles were a major cultural
change.  I remember the effect it had on me (as well as on American culture=
)
when The Beatles went on Ed Sullivan tv show.  I imagine it being as simila=
r
as watching the first man land on the moon, or the Berlin wall being torn
down. =20

Whatever it was great timing or genius (probably both), it for sure changed
my generation.  A big sweeping statement, but it is the truth.  As for thei=
r
music, I don't listen to them anymore.  Basically for the reasons I listene=
d
to them zillion of times -and that's enough.  But they were brilliant in
that the whole culture looked up to them and rarely let (then) culture down=
.
It was remarkable to buy Beatle albums during that period.  Each album
brought a new aspect to adventure  - it really opened up worlds.  Again, I
think they were in a sense sort of like living radio or transmitters just
picking up what was happening on the street, in the media, and all of the
isms of that decade.  But they were there, and they reflect that culture
quite well.  They were fab!

ciao,




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:49:35 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn uptown, no zorn content

[e-mail] wrote:

> >Steve Smith
> >NP - cars on the road outside the window...
>
> I once saw on interview with Cage where he said that was his favorite thing to
> listen to...

Ha!  My sole credit as "record producer" is along those lines.  It appears at the
end of the second disc of the Koch International Classics John Cage tribute 'A
Chance Operation.'  My contribution was to stand on the corner of 18th Street and
Sixth Avenue with a DAT recorder and tape the sounds of the street outside Cage's
last apartment building.  I felt pretty self-conscious doing it, which is why it
delighted me to listen on headphones later.  Towards the very end you can hear a
woman walking past saying something like "... it was the stupidest thing I ever
did..."  A chance operation?  I think not.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - wind rustling through the trees...


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #91
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