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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #85
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, October 2 2000 Volume 03 : Number 085
In this issue:
-
Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83
RE: Borah Bergman in concert with Mat Maneri
Re: Caspar Brotzmann question
Re: violin
RE: violin
Re: drummers Ringo & "genius"
Re: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius"
Re: violin
Re: violin
Drums again
fennesz
Einstein played drums...
Golia/Hayes & sax/drum duos
Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83
Re: Sax-bass duos
MASADA in Brussels
Odp: MASADA in Brussels
RE: drummers Ringo & "genius"
Re: Odp: MASADA in Brussels
Re: MASADA in Brussels
Re: MASADA in Brussels
Re: Einstein played drums...
Re: Einstein played drums...
Re: violin
Re: Einstein played drums...
Re: Le Quan Ninh tour dates
sorry, jerzy, but listen again, fool
again i disagree (perpetual drummer thread)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:02:03 -0400
From: "&c." <parksplace@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83
I agree with Dan whole heartedly on the matter of percussionists vs. just
drummers. Percussionists aren't limited to merely cymbals and drums, they
can experiment with bizarre objects or find new uses for everyday household
objects. Percussionists who branch out to mallet instruments are
particularly spectacular. Xylophones, Vibes, Marimbas, etc. are difficult
to play well even if they are one's only instrument. I have the utmost
respect for some one who can play drums, percussion, and mallets equally
well.
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:24:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: RE: Borah Bergman in concert with Mat Maneri
We'll all be there.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:46:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question
>Brennansf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question
Hi,
I'm not so wild about the drumming on Mute Massaker
either, but this could be due to the recording. The
drums are panned just left of center and the bass goes
the same to right. I don't know Hendrix very well,
but I think this style of panning showed up on some of
his records too? Also, they just aren't very big
sounding. In previous releases, the drummer of course
wasn't mixed as loud as Caspar's guitar, but it still
sounded big. I hope he's not thinking that shrinking
his rhythm section's sound will make the guitar sound
bigger because to me it does the opposite. Or I guess
it does, but the band as a whole suffers for it.
I think I like Koksofen the best. I can do without
the vocals on most of his stuff too, but this one
wouldn't be as scary without them. It's all good
stuff though, and the comments about the shapes the
songs take, and the intensity that builds is right on
the money. But I have to say that the story about
Caspar agreeing to quit playing in the middle of a
song because of complaints about noise kind of
disappoints me. I'd have thought he'd play that
guitar straight to jail (or at least finish the song).
:~)
- ---Ryan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:09:15 -0700
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: violin
>Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
>Violinists that I appreciate are:
>Zbigniew Seifert /was/
>Didier Lockwood
>SugarCane Harris
>Leroy Jenkins
>Charles Burnham
>David LaFlamme
>
>Any others?
Billy Bang(who as I write this, is leading a quintet w/Frank
Lowe on Knit TV) is well worth investigating . The earlier String
Trio of NY discs, and his recordings for Soul Note are all good
places to start. Another good one is Outline #12 one of the earliest
large group conductions by Butch Morris.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:22:38 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com>
Subject: RE: violin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> >Violinists that I appreciate are:
> >Zbigniew Seifert /was/
> >Didier Lockwood
> >SugarCane Harris
> >Leroy Jenkins
> >Charles Burnham
> >David LaFlamme
> >
> >Any others?
Michel Sampson, anyone?
Later,
Ben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:43:58 -0400
From: "Risser Family" <risser@cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: drummers Ringo & "genius"
I'm thinking that there is more than one way to be a genius.
The people you list are certainly genius's in the realm you are thinking of.
But I'm betting that none of them have the capability to rock like John
Bonham.
His genius at rock was unparallelled.
So.
More than one type of genius, that's all I'm saying.
Peter
> Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for
> "genius".
>
> If Starr and Moon were/are "geniuses", what do you
> call Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony Oxley, Roy
> Haynes, Andrew Cyrille etc. "supergeniuses"?
>
> Hierarchies don't have to be constructed. But if you
> mustdo so, realize that everyone can't be #1.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:04:16 EDT
From: Velaires@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius"
In a message dated 10/1/0 11:09:41 AM, you wrote:
<<If Starr and Moon were/are "geniuses", what do you
call Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony Oxley, Roy
Haynes, Andrew Cyrille etc. "supergeniuses"?
>>
No -- other kinds of geniuses. One's ability to discern and propel
polyrhythms etal would probably not have done the Beatles much good. Just as
being able to swing eighth notes a certain way wouldn't have benefitted the
Coltrane Quartet.
Should you need to talk to a technically adept Ringo-worshipping drummer, who
could probably better explain Ringo's contribution to the literature of
drumming, Joey Baron has a lot of praise to heap in that area.
skip heller
NP: The Best Of Thee Midnighters
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:47:26 EDT
From: Drivymovie@aol.com
Subject: Re: violin
Has anyone mentioned Mark Feldman yet? I think this guy is just incredible!
He possesses an extraordinary technical command over his instrument (his
floutando playing would be enough to sell me), like none other in jazz or
improvised music. And, more importantly, he is quite possibly the most
consistently creative and musical performers I have ever heard, regardless of
what context he is playing in.
A truly singular and versatile voice, I would say that him and Maneri do it
for me the most. I especially dig his work with Dave Douglas (String group,
Charms..., New & Used) and the Masada and, now defunct, Arcado string trios.
Anyone have any opinions about any of his other work? I'm intrigued by his
solo recording on Tzadik and his recent duo recording with Sylvie Courvoisier
on Avant (who, by the way, led a very impressive ensemble, the other night at
Tonic).
Word,
- -Evan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:28:28 +0200 (CEST)
From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: violin
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
<< Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
Violinists that I appreciate are:
Zbigniew Seifert /was/
Didier Lockwood
SugarCane Harris
Leroy Jenkins
Charles Burnham
David LaFlamme
Any others? >>
In a different kind of music, I suggest :
Carlos Zingaro
Malcolm Goldstein
And in a creative jazz feeling kind of music : Mat Maneri
Jacques Oger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:28:34 +0200 (CEST)
From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Drums again
About Le Quan Ninh :
He has a website with information :
[http://www.musique.net/ninh/] / [http://ninh.fr.st]
BTW, about drummers, I forgot to mention Gino Robair (but maybe somebody
else dit it ?).
Jacques Oger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:58:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: aaron chua <aaronchua22@yahoo.com>
Subject: fennesz
for those interested...
just thought i'd give a quick plug to a Fennesz 3"
that is coming out soon on the Synathaesia label. (it
might already be out in the US)Recorded when the Mego
crew were in Australia. circa the _live at revolver_
out on Touch.
(i'm not a stake holder in the Label though i
frequent Synathaesia the store...)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 2000 06:23:53 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Subject: Einstein played drums...
How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a
different sort..
_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 04:02:22 EDT
From: Jeffcalt@aol.com
Subject: Golia/Hayes & sax/drum duos
Got to see Vinny Golia and Phil Haynes play as a duo tonight at a community
center here in Los Angeles. They put on a remarkable and very "free" show,
despite the tiny crowd. Golia, who normally brings an arsenal of horns to
his shows cut down tonight to only soprano, tenor, and clarinet. His
intensity was high and his playing focused. Drummer Haynes was a marvel to
watch--his eyes closed practically the whole hour, he seemed in utter bliss
and used a number of various drumsticks, hands, and other body parts in his
playing. This was actually his first-ever show on the West Coast, altough
him and Golia have performed together in New York. Great performance.
Well, since we've discussed sax/bass duos and (separately) drummers, it seems
only right to now discuss sax/drum duos...unless, of course, folks are tired
of all this. (Before I forget, let me mention for the previous thread: Vinny
Golia recorded 2 sax/bass duo albums in 1996: 'The Art of Negotiation' with
Ken Filiano on CIMP and '11 Reasons to Begin' with Bertram Turetzky on Music
& Arts). Anyway, Coltrane and Ali's 'Interstellar Space' may be the most
famous of all the sax/drums duos (some may know that guitarist Nels Cline and
drummer Gregg Bendian payed tribute with their own interpretation on last
year's 'Interstellar Space Revisited', which I've had the good fortune of
seeing live twice), but can others tell me other sax/drums albums of note? I
haven't heard Zorn's 'Euclid's Nightmare' yet with drumer Bobby Previte, but
would others suggest it? I think David Murray's probably done a sax/drum duo
album (hell, he must've with 80+ albums under his belt), but I'm not sure
about my other 2 favorite sax players: Ken Vandermark and James Carter.
Maybe they've got a few more group albums to make first, since they're both
still kinda young. Since I much prefer sax/drums to sax/bass, what can
anyone add?
jeff caltabiano
n.p. sam rivers' rivbea all-star orchestra: inspiration
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:05:17 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #83
"&c." wrote:
> I agree with Dan whole heartedly on the matter of percussionists vs. ju=
st
> drummers. Percussionists aren't limited to merely cymbals and drums, t=
hey
> can experiment with bizarre objects or find new uses for everyday house=
hold
> objects.
must first say that i haven't read dan's statement.
i wonder who ever said that drummers were limited to merely cymbals and
drums??? sounds a bit weird to me... (apart from the fact that one can do=
an
AWFUL lot "just" with cymbals and drums!!!)
the limitation can only take place in the drummers' mind; otherwise he's =
free
to do what he wants to do, i'd say. i'm a drummer myself and do experimen=
t
with bizzare objects and household objects! plus some other things, too!
patRice
np: var=E8se, complete works
nr: schmitt, tokyo tango
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 04:07:11 EDT
From: Jeffcalt@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sax-bass duos
How could I forget? Dolphy/Mingus--a great combo that never recorded as a
duo. ...Actually, I don't believe Mingus ever recorded a duo album.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:38:10 +0200 (DST)
From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <papagian@nat.vu.nl>
Subject: MASADA in Brussels
hi
does any of our Belgian members have some information
on the November concert? location? tickets?
thanks
manolis
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:38:49 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: MASADA in Brussels
From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <papagian@nat.vu.nl>
> does any of our Belgian members have some information
> on the November concert? location? tickets?
Is there some kind of european tour planned?
Marcin Gokieli
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:50:49 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net>
Subject: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius"
- -------------------
Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for
"genius".
- -------------------
I repeat, "within a pop context". Ringo Starr is obviously not better than
Elvin Jones, I think we all know that. But rock/pop music would be totally
different if it wasn't for Ringo Starr.
It's just like the Beatles in general, Any Jazz bassist can play better than
McCartney, and Bill Frisell can play much better than Lennon or Harrison, so
what are we saying ... that the Beatles are not genious?????? Please, NO :-)
Neil H. Enet
- ------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:51:07 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Odp: MASADA in Brussels
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>
> Is there some kind of european tour planned?
> Marcin Gokieli
> marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl
> Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
> are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
marcin!
in november, masada are playing three shows over here in europe.
more details on the saudades webpage.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:47:32 +0200
From: "Ari" <ari.h@wol.be>
Subject: Re: MASADA in Brussels
Masada plays at the Audi Jazzfestival, 13/10 - 26/11 (www.audijazz.be).
- -) Masada: Koninklijk Circus, Brussels; 26/11, 20:00 h.
- -) Dave Douglas 'charms of the night sky': 22/10, 20:30 h, Ancienne
Belgique, Brussels
- -) Arto Lindsay: 27/10, 20:30 h, Th=E9=E2tre 140, Brussels
- -) ...
Don't know if Masada planned a Europe-tour.
Ari.
> does any of our Belgian members have some information
> on the November concert? location? tickets?
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:33:57 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: MASADA in Brussels
Ari wrote:
> Masada plays at the Audi Jazzfestival, 13/10 - 26/11 (www.audijazz.be).
>
> -) Masada: Koninklijk Circus, Brussels; 26/11, 20:00 h.
> -) Dave Douglas 'charms of the night sky': 22/10, 20:30 h, Ancienne
> Belgique, Brussels
> -) Arto Lindsay: 27/10, 20:30 h, Th=E9=E2tre 140, Brussels
> -) ...
>
> Don't know if Masada planned a Europe-tour.
>
> Ari.
well, like i said, check the saudades webpage. i know for sure that they
are playing three shows in november over here in europe. i remember one
being in italy, one in belgium, can't remember the 3rd one though.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:59:27 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <maurice@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Einstein played drums...
At 6:23 AM +0000 10/2/00, Tim Keenliside wrote:
>How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a
>different sort..
In the same league as "John," who drums on several Jandek tracks (and
perhaps Jandek himself), which brings us back to...Denardo Coleman.
I really do like the drumming on the Jandek albums,
Maurice
- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:51:53 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Subject: Re: Einstein played drums...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:23 AM
Subject: Einstein played drums...
> How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a
> different sort..
>
I second this vote.
Shaggs was the most genial band ever !!!!
Jerzy
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 07:09:11 -0700
From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: violin
Oger wrote:
>
> Malcolm Goldstein
Yes! How could I forget? Would be especially nice if some fine label would issue
his collaboration (for large ensemble) with Archie Shepp, "Free at Last, Free at
Last", which AFAIK existed *only* as an MLK-day broadcast on NPR back in 86 or
so ... surely the tapes exist somewhere ...
- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com
"My hair has grown thin thinking of music."
-- I Wayan Lotring
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:27:05 +0200
From: "dekater" <dekater@worldonline.nl>
Subject: Re: Einstein played drums...
- ----
Van: Tim Keenliside <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Aan: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Datum: maandag 2 oktober 2000 8:26
Onderwerp: Einstein played drums...
>How about Betty Wiggins from the Shaggs? Pure genius of a
>different sort..
>
>
According to Claire Golls autobiography 'Everything is vanity' (or
something like that) Einstein wasn't too bad on the violin. He might even
have been a great player, says Goll, if he hadn't chosen a wrong direction.
So...
Jan Luyben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:38:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Le Quan Ninh tour dates
jon abbey tells us:
> US fans will get a rare chance to see Ninh next month. he's on a coast to
> coast solo tour, confirmed dates below, thanks largely to the efforts of our
> own Matt Wirzbicki. in NYC, I think he's playing Columbia University
> somewhere, but last I heard, it wasn't confirmed yet. go see him if at all
> possible.
<snip>
> 25 nov : Madison WI (Erie Art Museum)
While he could be playing in Madison, and there is a State Street in
madison, the Erie Art Museum is in Erie Pensylvania, (411 State Street),
unless there is another Erie Art Museum also on a State Street except in
Madison. There is an art center on state street (madsion), and it does
have performance space...so maybe that's the place.
> 26 nov : Minneapolis, MI
I'm going to guess this should be MN (Minnesota) not MI (Michigan)
whit
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:23:22 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: sorry, jerzy, but listen again, fool
> yeah yeah yeah...but who's a really awful drummer?
>
> from,
> matt
>
Ringo Starr
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:45:09 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: again i disagree (perpetual drummer thread)
who was it that said
Perhaps Denardo Coleman (Empty Foxhole -Blue Note)
though, I really like that album anyway...... (?)
empty foxhole is one of my fave ornette albums, if only because it stands out so
much from the oovre. there's a genius naivete, a sorta savant quality to it,
wide-eyed discovery feeling due to 12-year-old or so denardo's playing as well
as ornette's first session on violin (trumpet as well? somebody help me.). but i
don't mean to say it's a novelty record. it's a strong record, propelled by a
competent and innovative drummer. so there.
not sure how far beyond this prodigy status denardo propelled, however. i'll
acccept that apparently he's a genius engineer or something, but he continues to
be a good-only, not that provocative drummer today. i guess.
kg
np: ma/meyer/o'connor - appalachian journey
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #85
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