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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #83
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, October 1 2000 Volume 03 : Number 083
In this issue:
-
Caspar Brotzmann question
Re: drums
Re: drummers
Drummers & electric guitarists
RE: drummers Ringo
re: drummers (worst)
Re: Caspar Brotzmann question
Odp: Drummers
Django & Bechet
Re: drums
violin
Re: violin
Re: violin
Re: Drummers and Dennis Chambers?
Re:violin
Re: Drummers (Phil Haynes)
Re: violin
RE: drummers Ringo & "genius"
Re: violin
Re: violin
record review: Shoji Hano + Keiji Haino: The Strange Face
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 11:45:10 +0200
From: Vigill <invigilator@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Caspar Brotzmann question
Hello Zornlisters,
in recent discussion on drummers somebody mentioned the name of Caspar
Brotzmann. Beyond the fact, that he's a son of Peter I know nothing
about him. I know only one recording with Caspar - Peter Brotzmann
Tentet - Marz Combo (he's mentioned as Casper there). So, please,
provide me with some more info on this gentleman (discography,
recommendtions, etc.).
Thanx
Vigill
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:32:07 +0200 (CEST)
From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: drums
My turn now :-)
And what about,
Tony Oxley: he is both classic and innovative. Amazing in the sound (with
Braxton, Cecil Taylor).
I agree with Jon Abbey : Le Quan Ninh is a very great musician; he is more
a percussionist than a drummer. I've seen him many times these last years,
what he does is fantastic. He has created a kind of new language with
percussions/objects.
Jacques Oger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:55:37 -0400
From: "Risser Family" <risser@cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: drummers
> > yeah yeah yeah...but who's a really awful drummer?
> >
> > from,
> > matt
> >
>
> Ringo Starr
Ringo Starr was/is a genius.
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:44:26 +0930
From: "Michael Vandelaar" <mikerita@ihug.com.au>
Subject: Drummers & electric guitarists
Joseph Neff wrote :
" ...wild card drum pick: Ted Brewer's way gone attack on the self
titled Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers debut on Alligator. Like
Mitch Mitchell playing with a slightly dusted Elmore James."
Superb recommendation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How about a Derek Bailey / Ted Brewer
duet?
As for electric 'jazz' guitarists, my favourite would have to be James Blood
Ulmer, especially the bluesy 'Odyssey' album and everything that came before
that chronologically.
I have plenty of time for Hans Reichel.
Marc Ribot plays some stunning stuff when he guests with Medeski, Martin &
Wood. My fave is 'Hey Joe' from 1/17/99 at the Bowery Ballroom.
Davey Williams is wildly imaginitive ... but I don't like his stuff with
Curlew.
Wild card guitar pick: Jerry Garcia on some of those strung out jams from
the early 70s, especially several versions of "Playin in the Band" from '72
or the superb 'Dark Star' from 4/8/72 to name but one.
2nd wild card pick: Earl Hooker, see his playing on 'Improvisations on
Frosty' & 'Improvisations on Dust My Broom' found on the Arhoolie set called
'First & Last Recordings' (I think).
Cheers,
Michael
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 09:13:48 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net>
Subject: RE: drummers Ringo
>Ringo Starr was/is a genius.
- -----------------------------
I agree. The things he did within a pop context back in the early 60s was
just out of this world.
OH, and let's not forget about Keith Moon, when the Who released My
Generation in (I think ) 1966, that was just so ahead of their time, it was
really really wild.
Neil H. Enet
- ------------
NP. Nick Drake - Five Leaves Left
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 09:32:42 -0400
From: Richard Ladew <ladewtangclan@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: drummers (worst)
Perhaps Denardo Coleman (Empty Foxhole -Blue Note)
though, I really like that album anyway......
NP: Kid A
- --
Rich Ladew: ladewtangclan@earthlink.net
www.home.earthlink.net/~ladewtangclan
PCP House Of Coffee: The best in modern, experimental and creative music
WUNH 91.3fm Monday evenings 8-9 p.m.(EST)
Real Audio at www.wunh.unh.edu
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 09:40:15 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Caspar Brotzmann question
At 11:45 AM 10/1/00 +0200, Vigill wrote:
>
>in recent discussion on drummers somebody mentioned the name of Caspar
>Brotzmann. Beyond the fact, that he's a son of Peter I know nothing
>about him. I know only one recording with Caspar - Peter Brotzmann
>Tentet - Marz Combo (he's mentioned as Casper there). So, please,
>provide me with some more info on this gentleman (discography,
>recommendtions, etc.).
Casper's actually a rather heavy guitarist. His primary group has been the
Casper Brotzmann Massaker, and the drummer for this group was mentioned
earlier in this thread. He also has an album Zulutime with Page Hamilton,
a heavy guitar duet, loaded with feedback and noise, as well as an album
Merry Christmas with F. M. Einheit (percussionist with Neubaten). I'm not
an especially big fan of Massaker because the garbled vocals and what I've
always considered a simple beat (but now I'll have to relisten because of
the afore-mentioned recommendation), but if you like noisy, loud guitar,
his work is worth checking out.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:03:14 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: Drummers
Ooops,
In my recent comment on Pat Mastelotto, i frogot to mention that he plays
electronic drumset in Crimson (although all intersted probably knopw that)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:00:46 EDT
From: Reaboi@aol.com
Subject: Django & Bechet
as you know both Django's and Sidney Bechet's recordings fall before the LP
era. thus, every CD or LP will be a collection or greatest hits of some kind,
if it's not a massive & complete chronological set.
As an introduction to these guys, you can buy 1-by-1 of each on the
CHRONOLOGICAL series. it's a foreign label you can get easily at Tower. the
sound quality is good. Both Bechet and Reinhardt have several discs. I've
got some of the 30s and early 40s Bechet sides.
there's a *sick* 6 disc set called COMPLETE RCA RECORDINGS OF DJANGO
REINHARDT & THE HOT CLUB OF FRANCE. It's on Mosaic; one of the most essential
things ever for any music. I hope it's still in print.
well, the most important thing is to buy a Bechet set with a version of
"Blues for You, Johnny" with Earl Hines on piano; a Django set with
"Improvisation 1" on it (or anything else).
Any more questions should be directed to Phil Schaap at WKCR,
Saturdays 6-10pm
Cheers,
Dave
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:50:44 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: drums
In a message dated 10/1/00 6:33:28 AM, oger@worldnet.fr writes:
<< Le Quan Ninh is a very great musician; he is more
a percussionist than a drummer. I've seen him many times these last years,
what he does is fantastic. He has created a kind of new language with
percussions/objects. >>
US fans will get a rare chance to see Ninh next month. he's on a coast to
coast solo tour, confirmed dates below, thanks largely to the efforts of our
own Matt Wirzbicki. in NYC, I think he's playing Columbia University
somewhere, but last I heard, it wasn't confirmed yet. go see him if at all
possible.
- --------------------------------------------------
10-13 nov : NYC
14 nov : Annandale NY (Bard College)
15 nov : Easthampton MA (Flywheel)
16 nov : Boston MA (Twisted Village)
18 nov : Pittsburgh PA (Millvale Industrial Theater)
21 nov : Detroit MI (Community College)
22 nov : Toronto (Canada)
24 nov : Chicago IL (Lampo)
25 nov : Madison WI (Erie Art Museum)
26 nov : Minneapolis, MI
29 nov : Denver CO
30-31 nov : Colorado Springs CO (Colorado College)
2 dec : Albuquerque NM( The Outpost)
9 dec : San Diego CA (Spruce Street Forum)
- ---------------------------------------------
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Subject: violin
Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
Violinists that I appreciate are:
Zbigniew Seifert /was/
Didier Lockwood
SugarCane Harris
Leroy Jenkins
Charles Burnham
David LaFlamme
Any others?
JM
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 13:20:27 +0000
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: violin
on 10/1/00 5:09 PM, Jerzy Matysiakiewicz at jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl wrote:
> Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
> Violinists that I appreciate are:
> ...
> Any others?
I've got Mat Maneri in my head all the time lately. I don't understand how
he gets where it is he goes, and it fascinates and trills me to no end. His
voice is like a perfectly controlled fall down a long flight of flowing
stairs.
Doing his discography now, you bet. (see sig below)
okay
- ----------
Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
- --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--
Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc.
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html
WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html
,
RL
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 10:25:36 -0700
From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: violin
Jerzy Matysiakiewicz wrote:
>
> Charles Burnham
I was just listening to Blood Ulmer's _Live at the Caravan of Dreams_ lp for the
first time maybe since it came out last week -- I was really disappointed in it
at the time because Ulmer was laying so far back guitar-wise, but this time thru
I realized it just gave Burnham that much more space. Great playing.
> Any others?
Obvious omission would be Billy Bang. Try the solo lp on hatHut, _Distinction
without a Difference_, if you can find it.
Ornette.
On the more rockist end, Blaine Reininger of Tuxedomoon was a major component in
their sound, with a gorgeous capital-R Romantic melodic sense. Walter Steding of
the downtown NYC scene in the late 70s/early 80s: first album great, second
not-so-great at all.
- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com
"My hair has grown thin thinking of music."
-- I Wayan Lotring
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:48:43 EDT
From: User384726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Drummers and Dennis Chambers?
I'll leave off my favorites that have been named but I was a little shocked
not the see Stevie Wonder. He has one of the most unique grooves in terms of
feel. Also Steve Gadd is should be mentioned. He's played sessions for so
many and still managed to keep his own sound. Listen to his playing with
Chick Corea, Paul Simon, then Van MaCoy (though I don't like his big band
playing very much). He always plays like he means it and has influenced many
of the drummers already mentioned. I would like to mention Mark Zonder from
the progressive rock band Fates Warning. Many may not like the music because
it sounds like eighties metal but this is one of the most melodic drummers.
He has a very linear style (which I prefer to "beats") and makes wonderful
use of electronics within the idiom he plays in. And finally Gene Hoglan
from Death and Strapping Young Lad is one of the best heavy drummers I've
ever heard. He comes up with creative almost fusion like beats in a metal
band (I don't consider them death metal but who cares for labels anyway).
Also, I was wondering why so many love Dennis Chambers so much. He often
comes of as being a good in the pocket groove drummer with poor musicianship.
He still uses the same "show off" tricks he used in the 1980s. He's
definitely not a bad drummer but I would never think of him as one of the
best.
Aaron Solomon
- -
------------------------------
Date: 1 Oct 2000 17:56:44 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Subject: Re:violin
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
wrote:
>Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
>Any others?
Michael White! He played with John Handy, Pharoah Sanders, the Fourth Way...
Michael Urbaniak, Polish fusion player from the '70s...
David Cross (King Crimson), Darryl Way (Curved Air), Stuff Smith, Jerry Goodman
(Mahavishnu), even Jean-Luc Ponty sometimes (like King Kong, Zappa, Mahavishnu)
or and let's not forget...Tony Conrad!
_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:02:16 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: Drummers (Phil Haynes)
Phil Haynes is playing with Vinny Golia this evening in Eagle Rock CA.
What's the list feeling about Haynes?
Good foil for Golia?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:02:39 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net>
Subject: Re: violin
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
> wrote:
> >Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
If someone doesn't mention Leroy Jenkins pretty soon, I'm gonna be
pissed.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:08:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: drummers Ringo & "genius"
Please
Let's not confuse technique and musical nostalgia for
"genius".
If Starr and Moon were/are "geniuses", what do you
call Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony Oxley, Roy
Haynes, Andrew Cyrille etc. "supergeniuses"?
Hierarchies don't have to be constructed. But if you
mustdo so, realize that everyone can't be #1.
Ken Waxman
- --- "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net> wrote:
> >Ringo Starr was/is a genius.
>
> I agree. The things he did within a pop context
> back in the early 60s was just out of this world.
>
> OH, and let's not forget about Keith Moon, when the
> Who released My Generation in (I think ) 1966, that
was just so ahead of their time.
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:16:57 +0000
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: violin
on 10/1/00 6:02 PM, Brian Olewnick at olewnik@idt.net wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:09:25 +0200 Jerzy Matysiakiewicz <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
>> wrote:
>>> Going on with the instruments. On of my fav instruments in jazz is violin.
>
> If someone doesn't mention Leroy Jenkins pretty soon, I'm gonna be
> pissed.
Hey!!! What about LEROY JENKINS??? I saw him for the first time playing a
Quartet gig in someone's living-room on the LowerEastSide, maybe mid 80's.
Seating was mostly on old couches and they had the fridge up front near the
door-- filled with bottled beer instead of food. Folding tables w/ poetry
pamphlets and small press books, very relaxed scene.
I wish I could remember who he was with.
So yes, Leroy Jenkins.
okay,
RL
- ----------
Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
- --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--
Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc.
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html
WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:27:33 +0000
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: violin
on 10/1/00 2:16 PM, Rick Lopez at bb10k@velocity.net wrote:
> Hey!!! What about LEROY JENKINS??? I saw him for the first time playing a
> Quartet gig in someone's living-room on the LowerEastSide, maybe mid 80's.
Ummm.... wait, maybe late 70's?
old, getting older,
r
- ----------
Sessionographies: CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies: COURVOISIER; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; WORKMAN.
- --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--
Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL-- ETC., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
Vids, a few CDs, baseball books, misc.
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html
WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:32:03 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com>
Subject: record review: Shoji Hano + Keiji Haino: The Strange Face
Just thought I would post a review of the new record by
Shoji Hano & Keiji Haino, entitled "The Strange Face".
It was released this month as the first release of the new
independent label, Ultra Hard Gel Records, out of Santa Cruz.
This is Haino's second collaboration with Hano, the first being
a 1991 release on Package Records, "Tayhei Nipon". On "The Strange Face",
Haino and Hano participate in 7 improvisational duets, five of
which are guitar/percussion duets and two of which are vocal/percussion.
However, the improvisation has some pre-established rhythms and directions,
(i.e. improvisation as Fushitsusha improvises, where the music while
spontaneous on an instantaneous level is following a generally previously
agreed upon path, as opposed to improvisation along the lines of the
Haino/Bailey or Haino/Brotzmann duets, where it seems (to me) that the shape
of the end product was entirely unknown prior to the recording session.
All the tracks vary greatly in style, some with Haino heavy on the guitar,
some that most recall the sometimes melodic Haino/Baron/Cohen cd on Tzadik.
The vocal tracks feature Haino shrieking and chanting. This is really a
surprisingly listenable album, and not just appealing to fans of free
improvisation.
For my money, "The Strange Face" and the second Aihiyo record, released
this summer
on PSF, are the two best Haino-related recordings released in the past
couple of years.
David K.
p.s.
(So far I have only seen this cd available through Forced Exposure.)
p.p.s.
On a related note, also released this September is a Haino/Hano/Brotzmann
live show on DIW, "Shadow - Live in Welz, Austria". This album is
much noisier and less "pre-conceived" than the Haino/Hano duet album.
p.p.p.s.
The dates for Fushitsusha playing in Denmark, Netherlands, and Belgium in
November
are posted at: http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #83
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