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Zorn List Digest      Sunday, September 24 2000      Volume 03 : Number 071



In this issue:
-
       Odp: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
       Odp: Naked City database
       Odp: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
       spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)
       Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)
       Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)
       Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)
       Re: Odp:_varΦse_(NO_ZORN_CONTENT)
       Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)
       Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)
       Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 in Toronto
       Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)
       Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)
       Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)
       Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 in Toronto
       hindemith (was: Re: spherophon)
       [none]
       Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:40:27 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: burroughs (was: all of these little things)

From: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>

> But there is a big difference (at least for me): I get it [cut-up] in
music
> and completely miss it in literature (I read NAKED LUNCH but barely
understood
> a word). This for a simple reason: music by itself does not express
anything
> (to use Stravinsky's famous statement), as opposed to writing which is
sup-
> posed to convey some meaning (assuming that being confused is not your top
> priority when you decide to open a book).

I would doubt whether such a difference exist. When you (and our master
IS;-) say that music does not express anything, you mean that it does not
express anything other then itself. That, for examplke, that it is not or
should not be constrained by the ideas of representation of musical
elements. there are no statements that can explain what has been played.
In litterture, we can have a similiar effect, if we deny the possibility of
saying 'what had happened in the book' in other words that the ones used in
the very text. There's a difference of course, but smaller then one could
think.
As for litterature built around suuch ideas, we could point out (again)
Celine. here we have a language that is so closely coordinated with the
scenes described that one can not separate the language used and the reality
described.


Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:16:23 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Naked City database

From: 2L <[e-mail]>

> It would be a great source of information and morevover, I'm trying to
> find out where a live show I got on CD has been recorded.

And a silly question: are there any plans of releasing some official live
NC?

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:50:39 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: burroughs (was: all of these little things)

From: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>

> (novel). You cited a few works proving that it is technically possible to
do
> such, but I personaly feel that they are mainly curiosities that could
have
> stayed in the laboratory (but yes, somebody had to do it for the sake of
it).

As i posted in the previous post: what about Celine (or Genet)? The scene on
the see (pages 126 -127 of the folio french edition) could be a good example
of what can be expressed only in those very words.


Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:50:17 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

hi y'all

reading in a book today, i came across the names of two musical
instruments unknown to me:

- - spherophon

- - trautonium

can someone from the list maybe give me a brief description of them. or
point me to a website where i might find this info.

thanks a lot for your help!

patRice

np: angel moraes, stereo, hot'n'spycy
nr: rowling, harry potter 1

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:53:25 -0400
From: "Chris From Zeke's" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)

Howdy!

> Mathieu Belanger said:
> Yes, the show was great. Not wonderful in my opinion, but very very good.
I
> think that the few slower and quieter pieces were not as great as the
others.

I thought that the only problem with the slower pieces was the incessant
dish washing, and the ambulance's flashing light.

> Also, Tim Mulvenna - the drummer - did not impressed me too much. While
his
> playing was much better in the second set, his overall drumming in the
first
> set was linear. But the others played well so I can't really complain!

If I was going to single out one band member who disappointed me, it would
have to be Jeb Bishop, he made a couple of mistakes and struck me as being a
tad apprehensive sometimes.

Where were you sitting (or standing)?

Play Ball!
Chris


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:16:11 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)

Mathieu Belanger wrote:

> Hello,
>
> >They rocked. They kicked-ass. They wailed. Steve, please go see them at
> >Tonic. I can't write that well.
>
> Yes, the show was great. Not wonderful in my opinion, but very very good. I
> think that the few slower and quieter pieces were not as great as the others.
> Also, Tim Mulvenna - the drummer - did not impressed me too much. While his
> playing was much better in the second set, his overall drumming in the first
> set was linear. But the others played well so I can't really complain!

Mulvenna was playing a lot more interesting stuff than he did in Victo, I
thought, where he laid into a more or less straight funk groove.  He was into
more cross rhythms this time.  And I agree, his work in the second set was more
impressive last night.  His drum solo was quite melodic.

> Also, the second piece of the second set was a wall of sound and was simply
> awesome!

"Point Blank" dedicated to trombonist Frank Rosolino, who shot his two sons
before pulling the trigger on himself.  Outstanding thematic development, men
going crazy, perhaps the highlight of the whole evening.

> And afterall, seing any band at Casa del Popolo is always a bonus...

My first time there.  Finally Montreal has a venue dedicated to presenting
interesting music.

> --Mike
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:26:53 +0200
From: Shlomo Weintraub <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

hi patRice (and all others of course),
I only know a few facts about the trautonium, i haven't even heard of the
spherophon. It was intvented in the 1920ies in Berlin at the music
university. There atre actually only one or two copies left. its some sort
of a very complex early synthesizer.  the instrument itself is very big. it
was mainly used by a german composer called Sallas (he was also involved in
building and inventing the instrument) .the so called "mixture trautonium"
Sallas used, is installed in his studio in berlin, it his actually not
possible to move it. back in the 30ies some people even wrote concerts for
orchestra and trautonium. to play these concerts, Sallas used his smaller
"concert trautonium". it has the size of big cupboard. the "mixture
trautonium" was mainly used to produce film music. the film score (all
noises and music) of hitcocks "birds" has been composed and performed by
Sallas on his "mixture trautonium". sorry but my english isn't that good,
so i can't explain any technical details. maybe i will later, but a the
moment i'm too lazy to get my dictionary. i don't know any website where
you can find infos, all the things i know are from a film which was on
german television some years ago.

patRice schrieb:

> hi y'all
>
> reading in a book today, i came across the names of two musical
> instruments unknown to me:
>
> - spherophon
>
> - trautonium
>
> can someone from the list maybe give me a brief description of them. or
> point me to a website where i might find this info.
>
> thanks a lot for your help!
>
> patRice
>
> np: angel moraes, stereo, hot'n'spycy
> nr: rowling, harry potter 1
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:36:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp:_varΦse_(NO_ZORN_CONTENT)

Yeah,
and there is also plenty of music to like in the Jazz
sections of CD stores. Besides those few favored
musicians who have made it off the plantation into the
"out" or "outside" section, there's a heck of a lot of
other major composers, performers and stylists who are
more likely to be slotted besides Dave Sanborn and
George Shearing than Elliott Sharp.

Ken Waxman


- --- Marcin Gokieli <[e-mail]> wrote:

>     This is not meant to be an historical remark.
> Rather a tip for those who
> are not aware that there is plenty  of music they
> 'll like in the classical
> sections of CD stores.

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:32:10 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

>
> - trautonium
>

One of the early electronic instruments /along with the theremin and
Martenot
waves/ invented in 1928 by Friedrich Trautwein.
Used by Richard Strauss, Paul Hindemith and Walter Egk.
Trautonium was also used in the score of Hitchcock's "The Birds"


Jerzy

np: John Harle - Habanera



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:39:09 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

>
> - trautonium
>
> can someone from the list maybe give me a brief description of them. or
> point me to a website where i might find this info.


Look at:

http://www.obsolete.com/120_years/machines/trautonium/


Jerzy


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:54:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 in Toronto

About the same at the Toronto show at the NOW Lounge.

(Aside: Pretty funny, the place is owned by NOW, the
so-called alternate newspaper), but the establishment
Globe & Mail did a better job telling people about the
show.)

My feelings were similar to how Mathieu felt. As a
matter of fact all during the first set I often felt
as if I'd wandered into a cool jazz session from the
1950s. Have you folks ever heard the Gerry Mulligan
Sextet with Zoot Sims and Bob Brookmeyer?

That band seemed to be an unstated influence, though,
I guess KVD wouldn't think its discs are "hip" enough
to reference.

Things improved at the end of the first set with a
version of "New York Is Full of Lonely People" (L.
Bowie) with a vein-busting tenor solo from Ken.

(He did tell me that V5 got a sit-on-their-hands
response the night before in Cleveland, so maybe they
were afraid to really let go in Toronto).

The second set was much better, with stellar work from
Kessler and Bishop an an overall looser feel. I like
th fact that Ken spends so much time on clarinet and
bass clarinet --there are already enough outstanding
tenor saxophonists.

All in all, it's a band worth seeing,but second saxist
Dave Rempis isn't yet Mars Williams and Mulvenna, so
far seems to be a little too timid.

Ken Waxman

- --- Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
wrote:
> Hello
> Yes, the show was great. Not wonderful in my
> opinion, but very very good. I
> think that the few slower and quieter pieces were
> not as great as the others.
> Also, Tim Mulvenna - the drummer - did not impressed
> me too much. While his
> playing was much better in the second set, his
> overall drumming in the first
> set was linear. But the others played well so I
> can't really complain!
>
> Also, the second piece of the second set was a wall
> of sound and was simply
> awesome!

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:50:37 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

> - trautonium
>

available CD:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000025LTC/o/qid=969817906/sr=8-2/028-
1620991-8626100

Oscar Sala - My fascinating instrument


JM


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:14:44 -0400
From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)

Hello,

>I thought that the only problem with the slower pieces was the incessant
>dish washing, and the ambulance's flashing light.

I was standing right in front of Jeb Bishop. Consequently, the dish washing
was not a major problem. I could sometimes hear it, but not enough to disturb
me. By the way, why did the ambulance came? I know somebody fell on the floor
during the first set, but he was still there at the end of the show, so I
guess he was alright.

>If I was going to single out one band member who disappointed me, it would
>have to be Jeb Bishop, he made a couple of mistakes and struck me as being >
a tad apprehensive sometimes.

I don't agree totally on this. You are right that he look apprehensive when
the guy fell on the floor. He clearly looked worried and I am not sure the
rest of band noticed something wrong was going on. Concerning the few
mistakes, it could be because he was not seing very well his partitions.
Before starting the show, he opened the light on the wall so he could see his
partitions. Then, he realized the people in the front row had the light
directly in their eyes (including myself), so he was kind enough to close it.
To joke, he warned us not not be mad at him because he could make a few
mistakes. Maybe he was not joking...

Some of his solos were very good. During the first set, he started a song
(sorry I should have written the setlist) by playing some very interesting
sounds using a mute and his hand. I don't know where you were sitting/
standing, but from where I was, I could get all the subtilities and it was
great!

Bye,

Mathieu


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:23:29 -0400
From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 at Casa del Popolo (short)

Hello (again!),

>"Point Blank" dedicated to trombonist Frank Rosolino, who shot his two sons
>before pulling the trigger on himself.  Outstanding thematic development,
>men going crazy, perhaps the highlight of the whole evening.

Definitely the highlight of the evening!

>> And afterall, seing any band at Casa del Popolo is always a bonus...
>
>My first time there.  Finally Montreal has a venue dedicated to presenting
>interesting music.

I can only agree on this. Thanks to Mauro (bassist for godspeed you black
emperor!) and Kiva for reopening the place. Thanks also to the godspeed you
black emperor! booking agency for offering a lot of wonderful shows to the
Casa! I mean, if you looked at the calender, you probably saw a lot of great
names...

Bye,

Mathieu


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:09:34 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Vandermark 5 in Toronto

Ken Waxman wrote:

>
> My feelings were similar to how Mathieu felt. As a
> matter of fact all during the first set I often felt
> as if I'd wandered into a cool jazz session from the
> 1950s. Have you folks ever heard the Gerry Mulligan
> Sextet with Zoot Sims and Bob Brookmeyer?
>
> That band seemed to be an unstated influence, though,
> I guess KVD wouldn't think its discs are "hip" enough
> to reference.

I don't know about that, as on Simpatico there are songs dedicated to
West Coast guys like Curtis Counce, Jack Montrose, Frank Butler, and
Frank Rosolino.  And I don't get the sense that Vandermark would not
consider the Mulligan Sextet albums hip.  The band seems to be moving in
that direction on the last couple of albums, and Steam (another
Vandermark group) certainly sounds West Coast "cool."

- --Mike
- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:03:09 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: hindemith (was: Re: spherophon)

hi jerzy,

thanks a lot for your comment.

talking about hindemith. can anyone recommend a biographical book on
hindemith?

patRice

np: masada, live in sevilla 2000
nr: horiyosh III, tattoo designs of japan

Jerzy Matysiakiewicz wrote:
>

> waves/ invented in 1928 by Friedrich Trautwein.
> Used by Richard Strauss, Paul Hindemith and Walter Egk.
> Trautonium was also used in the score of Hitchcock's "The Birds"
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sigmund Nonanima <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

"Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>>From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
>>The point in supplying this excerpt to the current
>>discussion is that, I think, one wasted life is
>>enough. I think a similar argument can be made for
>>music. At some point the effort out weighs the
>>rewards.

>Standardizing those parameters legislates mediocrity.


thank you, goddamnit--Whence this attack of
obscurantism? but at least there's a defender...

>I find myself torqued when the suggestion is made
>that it's somehow an utter "waste of a life" to spend
>one's years in pursuit of the worthless or illusory
>(i.e. "postmodernism"---which, BTW, is.......?) as
>opposed to the worthwhile or "substantial".  Which
>is....?   Classics?  "Real" scholarship?

>Wynton Marsalis?

HA! thanks again
(incidentally, the book Blue, the Murder of Jazz by
Eric Niesensen--I know I spelled it wrong--is worth a
read if your interested on the inert state of Marsalis
and his reactionary fold)

>I refer back to what Absurdbastard (no offense, chum)

I only get offended when someone with a bible
approaches me at the busstop.

>and perhaps Joseph Zitt were suggesting: if one is
>approaching a text or experience for some specific,
>essential discovery, and they don't hit the mark, the
>experience would seem to be a waste of time, or
>pointless, or the text deficient.  Often our efforts
>are simply not up to the task, but that probably has
>very little to do with the worthiness of the text in
>question: we just badly picked our battles.

OR, maybe we shouldn't go into artistic experiences
looking for specifics...


the dumb one

np computer hum

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:34:10 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: spherophon / trautonium (NO ZORN CONTENT!)

hi shlomo,

thanks for your help on the trautonium.

i did a search on google.com - there's a lot of information on the
trautonium availalble at this url (in both german and english!):

http://www.doepfer.de/traut/traut_d.htm

patRice

np: helge schneider, hefte raus - klassenarbeit
nr: d.e. hardy, dragon tattoo design

Shlomo Weintraub wrote:
>
 sorry but my english isn't that good,
> so i can't explain any technical details. maybe i will later, but a the
> moment i'm too lazy to get my dictionary. i don't know any website where
> you can find infos, all the things i know are from a film which was on
> german television some years ago.

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #71
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