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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #66
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, September 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 066
In this issue:
-
Re: surrealism/ Burroughs
re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
Re: REVIEW: Douglas/Mengelberg/Jones/Bennink, NYC 9/20/00 (long)
Re: Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
Re: big books (was great REVIEW)
RE: wm s burroughs
RE: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
Damn the presses! Damn the press!
flying shit
DDouglas, AShepp, HanB
Re: Han / Misha / Schtick
zorn compositions to be performed in Boston
Zorn playin in Brussels
re: zorn in brussels
Re: Wittgenstein
Zorn In DMG
Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:08:24 +0200
From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: surrealism/ Burroughs
> a faux pas, can somebody enlight me on surrealist music? I can name
> plenty of poems, books, paintings composed after the surrealist
> canon, but I can't even think of one piece of music that claims it
> lineage to the famous movement. Since you convinced me of how vain my
> attempt was at putting barriers between genres, I am sure you gonna
> come up with numerous surrealist compositions.
Edgar Froese of Tangerine Dream has always claimed that the main
objective of his music is to "paint surrealist images". Since he
studied art and worked with Salvador Dali, I guess he knows what
he's talking about.
Glad to see some discussion of Burroughs here, he's my favorite
writer. I can't read him without hearing his voice, either, and
actually one of the great pleasures of reading Burroughs is, for
me, the choice of words, the words itself, so to speak. There
are certain passages which just *sound* awesome. Apart from
that, I find a great deal of meaning in his books - his stabs
at society are incredibly powerful, I think. One of my all-time
favorite Burroughs passages is the little paragraph in THE
WESTERN LANDS where the American president hides in an underground
bunker ... "Every crumb for himself!". Oh, and I don't find
NAKED LUNCH that difficult, actually--but then I just like to
be confused. For me, the book mainly assembles a number
of hallucinatory images, the background being excessive
drug abuse.
Kind regards,
- Chris.
___________________________________________________________________
** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de **
** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil **
Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn
The Herbie Hancock Mailing List
___________________________________________________________________
"When I came home I expected a surprise
and there was no surprise for me,
so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:36:32 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <paste@interlog.com>
Subject: re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
PONG! Quoth the "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>:
>BTW, since putting barriers between different human activities is considered
>a faux pas, can somebody enlight me on surrealist music?
In a strictly chronological sense, Nurse with Wound doesn't really fit in.
Then again, he sculpts half of his album covers, so maybe chronology isn't
a big concern with respect to surrealism. If ever I've heard music that has
embodied what I grok about surrealism, though, it's the stuff set to tape
by Steven Stapleton and Co.
And since I haven't bothered to change the header to remove all
references to Burroughs, I should probably mention that the cut-up material
that I've subjected myself to in the past has worked best when you let the
idea of "meaning" slip past you and just sort of let the words take you
wherever they will. In a sense, I guess that explains some of the
connection that Burroughs and Gysin felt to Morocco, that whole Jajouka
thing, and any connections that you might care to make to Sufi poetry
(through good ol' sham-man Patti Smith) or Islam ("surrender"?). It's
hardly a surprise that all of this stuff is big with the druggies, is it?
- -me
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:55:47 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Douglas/Mengelberg/Jones/Bennink, NYC 9/20/00 (long)
On Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 03:54:31PM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:49:49 -0700 "s~Z" wrote:
> >
> > I'd say reading Moby Dick is bringing out the best in Steve Smith.
>
> But the scary thing is: what's left to do in life once you have read
> MOBY DICK ? :-)
Finnegans Wake :-)
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:44:31 -0400
From: Nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 11:05:30AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:53:07 -0400 Joseph Zitt wrote:
> > >
> > > Does writing have to "say something"? Isn't that precisely what the
> > > cut-up artists were playing with/against? How about sound poetry, etc?
> >
> > If you want to make a case out of exceptions, I guess you are right. But
> > you miss my point: music can survive without saying anything (because it
> > is its nature); literature cannot (because it main point is about saying
> > something).
>
> I disagree that that is necessarily its main point, anymore than
> visual art's main point is representation.
the most instructive point i think burroughs ever made is the following:
"copraphagy is the most redundant of vices."
sorry if i'm a bit behind on the list, but that little pearl of wisdom
actually has more to do with music than might be obvious.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:09:10 -0400
From: Matt Laferty <bg60009@binghamton.edu>
Subject: Re: big books (was great REVIEW)
"Caleb T. Deupree" wrote:
Oh yeah, easy ones. My personal massive favorite recently is Infinite Jest.
I have to second that one, although I'm only in the middle of it. I must also
add what I consider to be the big ol' birth of this stuff: Lawrence Stern's
"Tristram Shandy" Eighteenth Century England never got so postmodern.
matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:12:43 -0400
From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: RE: wm s burroughs
At 12:39 21/09/00 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> > burroughs' was a bit challenging when i first picked up "naked lunch,"
> > but not nearly as challenging as the first time i head cecil taylor!
>
>Funny that you say that. Listening to music is the passive act by
>excellence... it does not require any effort (maybe a little bit more
>than watching TV, but I am not sure). You keep on playing the record
>non stop and even the most cryptic piece of music almost makes sense
>after a while (open question: how different is it from brainwashing?).
>Doing the same with a novel (specially a hard one like NAKED LUNCH) is
>practically impossible (you can't read it when doing the dishes).
Interesting remark, though it could be added that an intelligent listening
requires effort. Effort to sit through a listening that is challenging,
effort to gain access to forms of expression that are challenging, effort
to learn these languages and syntaxes. We are not necessarily raised or
encouraged to take pleasure in what requires effort, and the terms effort
and pleasure appear antithetic in popular mainstream culture.
I dare to think we, on this list, find pleasure in listening to music that
pushes boundaries?
And about music as a passive act... doesn't music, on the other hand,
sometimes prove unbearable to sit through? (Too much effort for what it's
worth?)
>I think that NAKED LUNCH is an interesting case because it is a book that sits
>just on the edge of total hermetism. Based on your experience, the book is
>slightly demanding or totally unreadable.
I do not remember finding Naked Lunch difficult to read, but this may be
due to my lack of english skills at the time, and what I merely remember
enjoying was watching the signs dance on the page, page after page
(fascinated by his use of the punctuation, I do remember that).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:12:19 -0400
From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: RE: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
At 11:45 21/09/00 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>BTW, since putting barriers between different human activities is considered
>a faux pas, can somebody enlight me on surrealist music? I can name plenty
>of poems, books, paintings composed after the surrealist canon, but I can't
>even think of one piece of music that claims it lineage to the famous
Just one piece... easy: Ursonate by Kurt Schwitters. A quick search on the
net led me to this link:
http://www.peak.org/~dadaist/English/Graphics/ursonate.html
One could argue it's not really music.
On a related note, Merzbow has been mentioned here again, in relation to
Schwitters (the name Merzbow being adapted from one of Schwitter's
realisations).
Surrealism was a campaign for total emancipation and a concern for the
construction of a future. The noise of Merzbow is as much a homage to his
personal influences, as to the work and techniques of major artists of the
early century (obviously collage and cut-ups, but also automatic writing)
and later philosophers, as it is to contemporary trends in popular and
underground cultures.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:41:35 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <paste@interlog.com>
Subject: Damn the presses! Damn the press!
So I was moved to drag my ass out the gym tonight, and on the way out the
door, the latest edition of the local alterna-rag, _eye_, caught my...
um... eye. (Aye!) It seems that there's a new Photek album just waiting to
be unleashed on the world, and Rupert Parkes is doing the promotional thing
by travelling around the world and being a good little DJ, etc., etc., and
I was sorely tempted by the possibility of seeing him do his thing in
Toronto tomorrow night.
Or at least, I *was* tempted until I saw the pricing scheme for the show:
"$15 for men/free for women before midnight/$20 for all after." Hooray,
hooray... the show is being held in a meat locker.
The part that folks on the list might give a damn about or empathize
with, however, comes from the fact that, upon discovering that I wasn't
really going to bother with this show (having an Andrea Parker set spoiled
by an obnoxious party crowd has pretty much put me off of Toronto's club
scene for good), I started paging through the music listings for the next
few nights, and who should be playing at the Now Lounge tomorrow night but
the Vandermark 5?
It was at this point that I started wondering if there's a useful source
of this sort of information somewhere online that I should know about, or
if show listings all over the planet might not be a useful addition to the
downtownmusic.net phenomenon. Anybody? Please tell me that I'm not doomed
to keep finding out about good shows entirely by accident, and usually too
late to see them.
Oh, and I got thinking about the whole "surrealist music" thing at the gym,
and a lot of Erik Satie's stuff comes to mind, too. Mind you, he might have
just been an eccentric smart-ass, but the idea of writing "pear-shaped"
music as a critical retort strikes me as being a good step towards
embodying the more playful aspects of surrealism.
- -me
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:26:23 +0200
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <f.martinelli@comune.pisa.it>
Subject: flying shit
>i just came from the caca volante list, and i've
>found nothing but a large group of idiots that ask the same questions over
>and over while leaving incorrect/inaccurate responses.
I have to say that considering the list's name this is hardly surprising
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:34:47 +0200 (DST)
From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <papagian@nat.vu.nl>
Subject: DDouglas, AShepp, HanB
Dear list I have Two requests:
* any intelligent comments on Dave Douglas' Stargazer? How
does it compare with Convergence for example?
** after the hot Shepp review, which of his records should
I look for??
And one comment:
* Having seen Han Bennink a few times in his "home"
environment, Amsterdam that is, under different circumstances,
with a wide variety of people, I don't think that he is not inventive
as far as his "tricks" go. I always thought he was refreshing
his behaviour. As for his date with the Chigaco people, I
guess he probably doesn't feel like doing the humour stuff
when he is playing with such people. I for example couldn't
imagine him doing things while playing with Dolphy!!!
And BTW, on an old subject, first time my girlfriend joined
me at an "adventurous" concert was one of the ICP, and she
just loved it!!! Mainly because of Han I think.
Finally, be carefull when you sit in front of Han's drumset,
it happened to me twice that a stick broke and flew like an
arrow towards the public.
all respect,
manolis
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:17:06 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Han / Misha / Schtick
>PS - I was just informed that Han was on WKCR in NYC, not sure if it's
> >still going on.
Did anybody record that? I'd love to get a copy.
ARTHUR_G
_________________________________________________________________________
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:51:58 -0400
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: zorn compositions to be performed in Boston
Music of John Zorn, Christian Wolff and James Tenney will be performed at
New England Conservatory, Boston, Mass., Monday, September 25, in Jordan
Hall (8pm)
John Zorn: Carny (1992) and Le M=F4mo (1999)
Christian Wolff: Trio I (1951), Trio III (1996), and Dark as a Dungeon=
(1977)=20
James Tenney: Having Never Written a Note for Percussion (1971)
Featured performers will include William Winant, percussion, Jennifer Choi,
violin, and Stephen Drury and John Ferguson, piano
Free.
- --steve
check out the cool new stuff on=20
http://www.stephendrury.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:24:37 +0100
From: Pieter Tuytelaars <pier@oryxavd.net>
Subject: Zorn playin in Brussels
For all you zorn lovers out there
Zorn is playin in Belgium at the audi jazz festival
26/11 - 20.30 : Bruxelles, Cirque Royal : John Zorn Masada
check out this website for the complete program
http://www.jazzinbelgium.org/clubs/festival.htm
Pieter Tuytelaars
a.k.a. pier|oryx
pier@oryxavd.net
ORYX : Audio + Visual = Design
http://www.oryxavd.net
personal pages
http://www.oryxavd.net/pier/index2.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:45:33 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: re: zorn in brussels
funny thing - that date is not confirmed on the saudades webpage.
but it does fit in, since masada are playing in italy n the 25th, and in
the czech republic on the 27th.
patRice
np: madonna - music
nr: van gulik, irezumi - the pattern...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:47:52 +0200 (MET DST)
From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein
>>> "When I came home I expected a surprise
>>> and there was no surprise for me,
>>> so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
>> Where did you get this great quote?!
> The quote is from Wittgenstein's VERMISCHTE BEMERKUNGEN
And you know what? I believe it is used (in English) on Tibor Szemz=F6=B4s
remarkable half-hour piece, _Tractatus_ (Leo Records). Throughout the
piece, quote from W. are murmured gently in a half-dozen different
languages. A must for fans of the philosoph and of still and yet complexly
unfolding music.
>"Wittgenstein's Vienna" by Allan Janik & Stephen Tonhein
"Toulmin", actually. One of the best works of intellectual history ever, yes=
sir.
All the best, Stephen
Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden
=46ax +46 90 14 33 74
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:39:22 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Zorn In DMG
13. JOHN ZORN-Sonora (Materiali Sonori) Essential 100 plus page
book of articles about, interviews with, rare photos & discography
in English & Italian both, plus a cd of early unreleased rarities
compiled & intro by Eugene Chadbourne. Reduced price of $15.
______________________________________________________________________
Downtown Music Gallery Telephone: 212-473-0043
211 East 5th Street Fax: 212-533-5059
New York, NY 10003-8520 Email: dmg@panix.com
USA Web: www.dtmgallery.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:56:13 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)
At 11:45 21/09/00 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>BTW, since putting barriers between different human activities is
considered
>a faux pas, can somebody enlight me on surrealist music? I can name plenty
>of poems, books, paintings composed after the surrealist canon, but I can't
>even think of one piece of music that claims it lineage to the famous
Check out "Futurism & Dada Reviewed [Sub Rosa SUBCD012-19]
"......it contains, among
other treats, a recording of Luigi Russolo's "The Awakening of a City",
written in 1914 for an ensemble of howlers, boomers, cracklers, scrapers,
exploders, gurglers and whistlers. These were "intonarumori", electro-
accoustic noise machines of Russolo's own design. There is a fantastic
picture of them in Jane Rye's "Futurism", Studio Vista, 1972.
The machines and the recording are recent reconstructions, however,
the original machines, together with a chamber orchestra, can be heard on
the CD in two pieces by his brother, Antonio Russolo, recorded in 1924.
They're a bit scratchy after all these years - but whats a bit of crackle
to a noise composer.
Elsewhere on the record are poems and manifestos declaimed by Marinetti
Apollinaire and Wyndham Lewis and Jean Cocteau ranting his poetry over
a ratty hot dance band. There's a recent Swedish performance of
Marcel Duchamp's "The bride stripped bare by her batchelors ..even"
in which small balls dropping into toy train trucks determine the
performance on pianos in which the normal mechanisms have been replaced
by electrically rotated discs moving against the strings. Very ethereal.
For me, the other highlight is a performance of part of what Morton
Feldman considered one of the six most important works of 20th century
music, the "Ursonate" by Kurt Schwitters."
---John McMillan on a post to the E-Music list
s~Z = schwitterZ
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #66
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